manga-theories

[zinc iris]

being ungrateful is seen as extra bad even in the pirate world in One Piece

[manic relic]

Otama will live in Whole cake Island where she can have food all day, I think so

[light python]

WCI is not a place for normal kids

[vestal rampart]

yes, true

[zinc iris]

and there are several istances in the story where grizzled pirates are disgusted by someone being evil towards someone that was helpful towards them

like I can recount many times where luffy was mad at the enemy leader attacking its own loyal subordinates while still recognizing those subordinates as enemies because it was more evil than evil to do such an ungratitude
eg caesar with brownbeard, doffy with bellamy

[manic relic]

Short arc for 4th road ponegliph. Arc after wano will include Shanks. Next week is may already and Oda told us that shanks will make his move in 2021. So probably Q4 of 2021 = end of wano. Shanks also said after 1.5b bounty of Luffy that they will meet each other again soon

[zinc iris]

and he's the guy that has no issue fighting dirty

however big mom is kinda hypocritical regarding the hospitality thing considering she planned to murder her germa guests all along

[slim dome]

Who do you guys think is on the right

[zinc iris]

probably just Izo

[zinc iris]

those aren't really stripes but the shadow of the fluttering vest

the creases

[slim dome]

Hmm the cape was solid black

[zinc iris]

eh I think it's just a matter of projecting light on it tho highligt the creases

even if it's not izo I'm 100% positive it's not striped but rather the shadowing of the folds the vest was making in the wind

[sand sail]

It was Izo

The cape next to Marco is also solid black, it's shaded differently due to lighting on the folds

[sonic plaza]

a lot of people think that Luffy's bounty is gonna be less then 3b
but i agree with you to the point that it will be much much higher

1. Morgans is going to completely hype Luffy up again like he did in WCI (Luffy's bounty should have been like 1b but Morgans hype got it to 1.5b)
2. Because of X Drake and CP-0, I would assume that the WG would figure out that Luffy would have 3 Road Poneglyphs after Wano (this would get his bounty increased tremendously)
3. if Kaido and Big Mom fall, Morgans will prob get everyone to think that Luffy is responsible for both
4. If Luffy does beat the strongest person in the world, why would his bounty be 2b less than Kaido's
5. Also if Kaido dies (by Luffy or someone else), he will likely take a lot of the credit for beating him first
6. he will go down as the ringleader of entire Wano raid against the strongest pirate crew in the world and another emperor
   so i think Luffy's bounty could very well exceed Kaido's

[kind gate]

it won't exceed kaidos

[vestal bone]

Why

[light python]

if he beats kaido, his bountry will exceed kaido's bounty

[queen ice]

Now Nami and Zeus are in the same place now. BMs got a new homie replacement for Zeus. I think you know what I mean unless Oda is trolling us hahahaha

[queen ice]

Less than "<"

Greater than ">"

[sonic plaza]

oops

[kind gate]

thats not. how it works when 13+ people assisted him

[light python]

the world govenment doesnt care

[kind gate]

wdym they don't care lol

[sonic plaza]

obviously Luffy wont deserve a higher bounty

• but there is Morgans

[light python]

his bountry always exceed the boss after he beats them

[sonic plaza]

Morgans could convince the world that Luffy defeated both Kaido and BM

[kind gate]

but he isn't fighting them 1v1 like he usually does from the beginning of the battle

[kind gate]

that won't happen morgans doesn't lie

morgans will exagerate but he won't blatantly lie

[sonic plaza]

ok, but he will say that Luffy is "responsible" for both their falls
even if he didnt defeat them directly

cause Luffy did lead the raid

[light python]

i think if he wins solo from now on people would say he "won" against kaido

[kind gate]

he will say luffy led the charge that took down kaido and bigmom but cp0 is there to make sure the correct bounties will be given lol

[zinc iris]

it's not like law and kidd won't get credit lol

it would even be more juicy to report the new generation is taking over

[sonic plaza]

also, the beginning of the battle was the Worst gen vs the 2 yonko

• Kaido took damage from Zoro + Killer as well as Luffy
• Luffy also took a bit of damage from BM + Kaido's combined attacks

[light python]

they will look at the outcome

[weary cliff]

The upcoming conflict is pretty evident. The new homie being named Hera is begging to be used against nami, since the Greek Hera always punished Zeus's mortal side pieces. So it's easy to imagine something like Zeus siding with Nami while she's getting zapped to death

[pure raven]

down d stairs will appear

[queen ice]

I think i would agree to the other guys. If not higher, it will be more or less equal.

You see, One piece is on its final Arcs... Its just considerable that after he beats down Kaidou and BM, he will face the Government (BB is just a nuisance trust me) and it is just logical if nows the time Luffy gets a 4b bounty because after He finds One Piece and starts the move, it's not too far away from Roger's Status/ bounty. So its just logical

[pure raven]

and fight zorro

[queen ice]

Oh thanks

[severe cargo]

damn rlly?

[pure raven]

its now or never

[modern prairie]

No way

[wooden topaz]

i'm still not sure which side BM after this moment, his friendship with tama kinda good.

[strange panther]

neither

[weary cliff]

O Lin is a wildcard

[acoustic lion]

Ok

[queen ice]

Bruh, She's a yonko. She and luffy had lots of beef... No way she's gonna side Luffy and i dont believe she will with Kaidou especially because of the last chapter.

[sonic plaza]

What do you guys think Luffy's bounty will be if he defeats Kaido and takes credit for the raid against the world's biggest power?
A) 2.5b-2.9b
B) 3b-3.4b
C) 3.5b-3.9b
D) 4b-5b

PLEASE VOTE !!!!!!!!!!

[wooden topaz]

ofc she'not at luffy side, but how about BM try to beat beast pirate too... ?

[queen ice]

Please vote for reactions hahhaha just kidding

[sonic plaza]

no, im just curious about ppl's opinions

[vestal bone]

Id say 3.5-4.5b really

[queen ice]

Hmmmm.. I think thats pretty possible. But that's too predictable also. ODA SENSEI ISN'T that too predictable

[queen ice]

Same thought

[vestal bone]

Cant see 5b until luffy beats bb and becomes pirate king later imo

[sonic plaza]

i feel like everyone's argument for why it would be low is that Luffy still has to fight Shanks + BB, and his bounty cant go past theirs

1. HE IS GOING TO BEAT THE STRONGEST PERSON IN THE WORLD
2. Doffy's bounty was less than Luffy's and he was still the strongest person he ever fought at that time

[safe plover]

True

I hear some theories about G4 lion man. Any thoughts on that?

[wooden topaz]

i hope it is G4 with coc

[queen ice]

Man trust me, BB is not a real threat.. Thats too predictable... Oda is not like that. You see how much strong Luffy is now? And his Crew?

[light python]

BB is definitely a threat

[queen ice]

Nah man... Trust me

[safe plover]

I think BB resembles rocks

[wooden topaz]

BB is the next xebec

[queen ice]

BB no haki haha

[cosmic glade]

he definitely does, and luffy. i would actually say luffy more

[light python]

BB is a sneaky boi

[safe plover]

Yes that’s what I mean. The next xebec

[vestal bone]

Bbs crew could be a threat to other straw hats is why i think hes a threat

[wooden topaz]

luffy is roger in the past that's the plot

[light python]

BB dirty tactics are effective

[queen ice]

Thats too predictable

[safe plover]

That scene in the anime before going to skypeia basically shows how luffy and bb are kinda the same but the opposite. The pie scene

[cosmic glade]

exactly, they have the same ideals but different ways of approaching their goals

[safe plover]

Is it true BB is going for all 3 types of fruits?

[wooden topaz]

you kinda want too many plot twist but, the simple one is still good one

[queen ice]

But we will see.. For the great Mogz D. Zee will predict it.. WHAHAHA

[cosmic glade]

i thought he was going for a all for one kinda thing

[vestal bone]

Yea op logia, paramecia and zoan

[cosmic glade]

if he can have two why not more

[stark glacier]

Big Mom is best Mom

[light python]

crocodile is best mom

[safe plover]

Any of you think we might see G5 soon against Kaido? Conquerors haki coated or something like that

[stark glacier]

Crocomama

[honest juniper]

well from what it sounds like i dont think thats his goal but he went to get a devil fruit that had to do with someone from the reverie

[queen ice]

Condoriano vs Kaidou

[wooden topaz]

i think G4 with coc is more than enough

[safe plover]

Oh no! Insane fight

[vestal bone]

Maybe an awakening too

[light python]

luffy base form has kaido on the ground rn

[safe plover]

I think awakening against BB

[vestal bone]

Kaido hasnt shown his awakened df abilities yet

[cosmic glade]

hybrid kaido too...

[safe plover]

I wonder how strong Imu is though

[queen ice]

Imagine the scardy BB against G4 luffy.

[light python]

yeah says alot about luffy's progress

[wooden topaz]

zoan ability is hybrid

[sonic plaza]

zoan awakenings are not good

[safe plover]

Probably the last strong character luffy will face

[vestal bone]

Oh

[light python]

i doubt he's gonna fight luffy fair and square

[sonic plaza]

zoan awakenings make you unable to return to human form

[vestal bone]

F for kaido then lol

[sonic plaza]

remember the guards in impel down?

[queen ice]

You see what i mean... Kaidou is more experienced that BB but he knelt down to Luffy..

[cosmic glade]

i agree, but this is a bit of a stretch imo. Kaido has been hyped for so long and i know luffy learned a lot in the mines but this is a huge difference

[queen ice]

Now thats possible.... But he will be easily taken down by luffy. Advance Observation

[light python]

kaido has to have more to offer

[sonic plaza]

he literally learned super advanced ryou which made him op,
but, after learning advanced coc, he is now close to even with kaido

[vestal bone]

Yea thats what im thinking
Hybrid form cant be the ultimate form of kaido

[queen ice]

Yes of course but after this, Luffy will be much stronger than we know.

Hence, defeating BB is just a snack

[sonic plaza]

he could offer more than his devil fruit
zoans are very simple fruits
so, he likely has more abilities that are not devil fruit related

[cosmic glade]

bb is probably going to go after shanks

[safe plover]

So Zoro has conquerors now or no?

[wooden topaz]

agree with this

[queen ice]

Thats more like it. Because he knows Shanks has the ponegliff from Fishman Island

[wooden topaz]

BB squad so powerfull like Luffy they dont have crew without strange people

[queen ice]

The road one of course

[cosmic glade]

BB hits whole cake while big meme is gone and then goes for shanks

he gave him that scar too

[light python]

katakuri gonna get wrecked then

[cosmic glade]

him, snacks and cracker are all they got

[queen ice]

Thats more like it bruh. But the one you saw i think when BB went ot whole cake was a fan made? Im not really sure.. But i think thats what happened

[vestal bone]

Yea fanmade thing

[cosmic glade]

i remember oda said once that he reads fanmade stuff like that and intentionally changes the story if they predicted it correctly lol

[queen ice]

Luffy's crew is like that for a reason. He wouldn't get a crew so weak he can easily be defeated by others. And luffy is enough for like 4 crew mmebers incluidng BB

[queen ice]

Yeah i heard also

[mossy grove]

yup

[cosmic glade]

bb could be coming to wano too, thats why he recruited moria

[light python]

i can see zoro destroying shiryu though hahaha

[wooden topaz]

including this forum Lol

[queen ice]

Prolly.

[vestal bone]

Really want van augher (sniper) vs usopp

[safe plover]

Yeah I think Mihawk will lose to shiryuu and Zoro will be the one to surpass him

[light python]

chopper vs doc. Q

[vestal bone]

Hate that talk so much
Mihawk losing to shiryuu

[light python]

i cant see Mihawk losing to shiryu

[queen ice]

But remmeber changing the story will fluctuate also the rest of the story. I believe in Oda's unpredictability.

[wooden topaz]

battle fair mihawk is better, but we know all BB squad si very tricky.

[safe plover]

True but probably end game shiryuu can beat him?

[light python]

shiryu can turn invisible i forgot

[queen ice]

Yeah. Me too. Mihawk is the strongest for a reason

[cosmic glade]

oh yeah i agree, hes a genius. He can do anything

he could probably even beat lebron 1v1

[safe plover]

Wasn’t that the fruit sanji wanted?

[light python]

yeah

[silver forge]

Zoro finna say that his second dream was to become the biggest bounty hunter of all time and starts looking at Luffy

[light python]

zoro final villain confirmed

[wooden topaz]

STOP it, oda will read this and change it lol

[light python]

the ultimate pirate hunter

[silver forge]

Oda isn’t on here

he isn’t on Reddit either

[light python]

i doubt oda reads fan theories

[kind gate]

I see this chat is more active too

[cosmic glade]

he said in an sbs once that he watches a small youtube channel. i think his team probably watches more

[light python]

probably japanese youtuber though

[cosmic glade]

oh yeah 100%

[wooden topaz]

yes... some mangacreator has a team to check fanclub

[fathom wind]

Oda did said he read fan theories about the ending & nobody even came close to figuring it out

[cosmic glade]

lmao i meant in their spare time. nobody is suggesting that hes reading this chat and changing the manga. oda definitely did say that he changes the story though lol

[wooden topaz]

not for fully time check it, but it could be possible.

[silver forge]

Speaking of Hancock, do y’all think she’s going to be captured

[vestal bone]

Cobys after her isnt he

[wooden topaz]

she and coby will talk about luffy all the time lol

[silver forge]

so no

[cosmic glade]

yeah im sure it'll be the coby team up

[vestal bone]

Coby got oneshot by pre ts luffy

[cosmic glade]

twice

[silver forge]

he knows how to use haki and he got a lil stronger

[cosmic glade]

i feel like coby is supposed to be a parallel to luffy but imo smoker is a better fit

id love to see smoker as admiral

[silver forge]

smoker got smoked 💯

[vestal bone]

Hasnt got one W since post ts i think

[cosmic glade]

he did get manhandled on punk hazard

[silver forge]

yep

[cosmic glade]

virgo was different though

definitely one of my favorite side characters

[vestal bone]

Yea virgo casually 1v2d law and smoker

[cosmic glade]

until he got cut in half

his role in the corazon story too, broke my little heart

[silver forge]

People usually like to piss and moan about how they hate smoker but, Smoker is a good guy. He at least has a high reader for justice and he should be fleet admiral imo

[wicked grove]

Smoker is gonna help Luffy become PK. I have no doubt in my mind it’ll happen

[sand sail]

He lost

[vestal bone]

Until then

[dusky notch]

I don't understand why people forget Big Moms character when she was with mother carmel and other kids. Tama just reminds her of good old time. It perfectly make sense to me that big mom has a good side, especially with kids

[pure raven]

thats just her motherly intuition that jumped in to action

[wicked crescent]

and that doesn't mean she doesn't hate strawhats anymore

[wicked grove]

Agreed

[fringe shore]

that'll keep her occupied long enough for kaido and luffy iso

[weary cliff]

So if Tama becomes a SH does BM short circuit

[honest juniper]

oh yeah for sure

[grim oyster]

theory: observation haki can conceal your presence, rayleigh did it on ruskina when they were training

[pure raven]

watch her pull a crocodile

[south pelican]

Big Momma for the win

[slate stump]

Big meme

[sonic plaza]

or coc maybe?
shanks also did this at marineford

[tardy pasture]

nah she finna pull out the actual Croc

Croc x Luffy alliance fin a bloom once again after 2 years

[grim oyster]

was it confirmed that it was conquerors?

[sonic plaza]

was it confirmed that it was observation?

[tardy pasture]

I mean it may be CoC but part of me believes its smthn to do with Armament

[sonic plaza]

if i remember right, the only people that have concealed their presence have been people with coc (correct me if im wrong)

[modern grove]

Big mom finna clap kidd and kaido

[grim oyster]

that doesnt mean that only coc users can conceal themselves

[sand sail]

All of the whale forest guardians in Zou

[tardy pasture]

so its probably Armament

[sand sail]

Or it's just generally lowering your presence

Keeping your intent down and soft, not displaying bloodlust, blending into the surroundings

[tardy pasture]

I'd imagine it be like Ryou were they coat themselves in a thin layer of their haki and which it negates Observation

[modern grove]

After wano there will be one last saga and then one piece manga will end. So we still got at least 200+ chapters and maybe even a timeskip on the way

[vestal bone]

Yea ts after story ends

[honest juniper]

I think two cause oda said another said another four to five but i doubt that I’d say at max six years but if he feels the story’s still missing something seven

[wicked grove]

I think it’ll be longer just bc of breaks

[modern grove]

This might be the case yeah

[honest juniper]

I was thinking that two but I didn’t wanna push it

[wicked grove]

I mean i wouldn’t mind too much. Oda deserves breaks

[tardy pasture]

well if that is the case then I'd expect Oda to include God Valley aswell

[honest juniper]

Oh yeah we’re definitely getting a backstory on that

[sonic plaza]

well,

• there will be a raftel/pirate king saga (which will include lodestar, raftel, and then final war)
• elbaf could possibly have its own saga like thriller bark did, but i would imagine that god valley could join elbaf saga too

[hard portal]

Hera is next level shit

[honest juniper]

Elbaf has to be included in show after all the mentions of it I think that will be after wano

[sonic plaza]

elbaf could potentially be as long as WCI if BB is the main antagonist

if elbaf has the last road poneglyph, its possible that BB would get involved

• also, elbaf will likely have shanks in it (for many reasons), and BB would want to fight Shanks

[nocturne iron]

Lol oda keeps hinting for finishing in four years. There is one saga most likely left. Elbaf will probably be part of it, raftel and then final war.

[swift void]

Do we know if Blackbeard has conquerors haki? I can't remember if we have been told but i'm pretty sure we haven't

[honest juniper]

Bro oda is assuming that as of now but I promise it won’t end in four years

[sonic plaza]

he is not gonna rush it

• also, wano will prob finish mid-late 2022, so that leaves very little time for 3 very important arcs in the future (elbaf, raftel, final war)

[swift void]

Plus im sure many more flashbacks with at least one being the void century

[nocturne iron]

I will trust Oda over you.

[honest juniper]

Dude oda originally only had one piece going to like 400-500 episode’s later there’s still too much story to be told for it to end in 4-5 years at max I say 5-6 years

[nocturne iron]

This gets cited over and over again. It's wrong. He said in an interview once well after the fact. The dude has been consistent about 2024-2025 as the end date, for about ten years now.

[sonic plaza]

any predictions as to who BM will fight for the rest of Wano (doesn't have to be just 1 person) and who will do the final blow?

[tardy pasture]

IMO I think Elbaf is gonna be squished in with God Valley as a Final Adventure Saga

in which we learn the rest of the lore that is avaliable outside of raftel

like the truth of the ancient weapons and more about IMU

aswell as the truth of the GOROSEI

[weary cliff]

I would guess the Gorosei are all from the void century, and their relevance is inverse to how old they look. Like the blonde dude is the leader and got the eternal youth surgery first among them, and then rest got it gradually as they found the next ope ope no mi until the big moustache liver spots guy got it probably last. The age hierarchy thing seems week even to me because they seem more or less equally old, but if they are all immortals, then there would be some order even if it doesn't mean anything.

Anyways, they're some of the few CDs that don't seem like a terrible product of 800 years of inbreeding, and look the same even in flashbacks, so this has probably been speculated to death. I just haven't seen it discussed yet

[gritty kite]

Just find/ make a list of every unsolved mistery /location to visit/ flashback or character backstory missing/stuff that needs wrapping up and you will realize that 4 years (~160 chapters) would need to start right nowsolving stuff directly non stop without anything in between for it to be finished in time.

[weary cliff]

Simple. Many mysteries will remain mysteries

[gritty kite]

Oda is the guy who had written backstories for every donquixote family executive but the editor cut them. If he finishes in 4 years it’s going to be rushed and a lot of stuff left out

There is simply too much unresolved stuff and Oda takes 1-2 years per arc and reveals too little per arc for it to be so fast.

[weary cliff]

Sorry, I should be more clear. I don't have an opinion on how fast OP will be ending, I just don't think we should expect everything that has been brought up to be resolved. There will be unvisited locations, unsolved mysteries, and probably unresolved minor plot threads

[gritty kite]

I can see some things left out, but the pile of “this totally needs to be explained or it’s going to be very weird” is enormous.

And they are things that aren’t all connected and seem hard to reveal in a short time just because of their different themes making it hard to reveal in the same 1-2 arcs.

[weary cliff]

What are the major things that need touched on that aren't likely to be tied to LT/the series climax? Just off the top of my head there's Weevil, but I think he will come into play around the BB saga, where we could also get some Rocks info if that doesnt come in a Kaido flashback

[honest juniper]

Exactly

[errant ridge]

plot twist: shanks is the real villain( the plankton character that the council reports to secretly) in the story.

oda- confirmed.

[spiral jetty]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/mc0he9/possible_additional_tribes_in_the_world/

Just a theory I posted a while back

[surreal dawn]

However it ends, I just hope OP ends on a high note

[sonic plaza]

no

[grim oyster]

theory: gear 5th will be luffys awakening, but the consequence for using gear 5th will put him in a coma that will have chopper find the cure all medicine

there really isnt anything to go off of this theory, just what i think will happen, the reason i think there will be a consequence is because all the other gears have consequences

[zealous grail]

Weevil's purpose in the story confuses me. I'm hoping it will all come together next arc. It kind of has to really.

[zealous grail]

So I don't think Gear 5 will cause the coma. I think it'll probably come from a strain of all the gears or more likely an illness, perhaps the one Rogers had. Chopper would have to surpass every doctor including Crocus, the doctor of the Pirate King, to cure the disease even he couldn't

[kind gate]

I doubt luffy gets a Roger like disease

[grim oyster]

i just hope luffy doesnt get the disease roger has, doesnt seem like good writing for me

[zealous grail]

With all the parallels drawn, I feel as though it should happen, except Chopper would be able to cure it

Just another way for them to surpass the previous Pirate King

[grim oyster]

just give him the mushroom he gave to his doctor

ez cure

[zealous grail]

Damn. And I thought I was mean-spirited. XD

[sand sail]

@dark palm You know what, I just realized a huge flaw in the downside of conqueror's haki imbued armament. If every Emperor so far can do it, they should all be getting just as sick as Whitebeard and Roger

[dark palm]

not if they measure their use of it

[grizzled fog]

Wait what

[dark palm]

and kaido + big mom are both significantly younger than WB was

kaido more importantly

[sand sail]

Big Mom's like 4 years younger

[dark palm]

esp if we consider roger to be someone who used constantly

[grizzled fog]

Y’all think their health is related to their haki use?

[sand sail]

Or, 6?

[dark palm]

and bean, it's more related to immune system imo

[sand sail]

It could be, that'd be a legitimate concern

[dark palm]

just a weakening of "will"

in terms of will against sickness

in response to overextending your own will upon using CoC

[sand sail]

Ehhh I dunno about that

That seems a little too flowery for my taste rofl

[dark palm]

lots of things in one piece are romantic like that

[sand sail]

You're not wrong, but it still tries to stay decently scientific with things like illness right?

[dark palm]

I mean, this would be scientific

basically a self induced HIV

[sand sail]

I guess I feel better about it thinking of it like their bodies just lose general vitality from overexerting their wills

[obtuse gazelle]

So what do you guys think about what Kaido said this chapter ??? The wider you smile ... or is it just a translation mistake

[grizzled fog]

What about it is weird?

[exotic echo]

Gonna wait on the official for that one, iirc TCB made a correction on twitter too

In any case it probably isn't significant to anything major

[obtuse gazelle]

Yeah that just made my head hurt

[dark palm]

it's pretty clear what the sentence says but not what it means

it's like "the greater the risk, the wider your smile. and as a result of your smile getting wider..."

aka "the more you enjoy the fight the stronger you get"

[exotic echo]

i sort of take it as kaido admiring luffy for enjoying the fight against him

gaining respect for him a lil bit perhaps

[grizzled fog]

I took it as kaido saying Luffy enjoying the fight the more difficult it is

[dark palm]

That's this part

then he implies the next part

of "and the wider your smile..."

[grizzled fog]

Oh right, something else implied there

[solid jetty]

fifth emperor

[exotic echo]

that's what I meant, I sort of took that as him fluffing himself up. at least at face value

as in like "I'm a pretty great risk, huh"

but I guess it's sort of leading into some other idea. Idk.

[peak hare]

Ah i see what you're saying fats

that did confuse me when I read the chapter at first

[waxen light]

Do you think he said something important in between the second smile and right and it was just not shown? Or is it literally just wink wink nudge nudge right?

[exotic echo]

if it's assumed that it is referencing something else besides the first thing, then it's some unspoken understanding between the two I guess

[obtuse gazelle]

I feel like it has something to do with D. ... Yamato knows what it is, Kaido would definitely know too. But again, head canon is speaking here.

[lapis prairie]

I don't see D there at all

[halcyon sparrow]

i've got one. do sea stone handcuffs turn luffy back into a normal human?

[obsidian phoenix]

no, when he was touching seastone in alabasta he was still rubber just had no energy

he was flopping around like rubber normally would he just couldnt control it

[pure raven]

Well lion man sound possible as luffy just now learnt how to use adv coc (can be used only those who have kings qualities or rulers )and lion is said to be the king of jungle ( the ruler )
So coc applied on lions man form
Gotta be very strong and is posssibly next form
Lionking form +coc =G4

G5= after awakening

[sonic plaza]

another G4 form would not include advanced coc as the "gear". it would be in balance with the other g4 forms

• but, Luffy could easily use coc with any G4 form, like he used haki with G2 + G3 right after timeskip
  then, g5 could be something even greater with advanced coc

also, i dont know if awakening is G5. it sounds like it will just be another attack that he can pair with his gears (just like haki)

• it sounds like you could use your awakened powers in any gear so awakening = G5 is out of the question

[pure raven]

So I was just saw spoilers for Ch. 1011 it just blew my Mind . And big mom respect

She is op

[acoustic helm]

Oda gonna show more conqueror cladded attacks from now on

[pure raven]

Yeah baby

[acoustic helm]

Who will teach zoro about conquerors...
Or will he self learn

[pure raven]

Well i m sayin that maybe luffys abother g4 form that is lion man woukd be specialy ficus on coc

[sonic plaza]

no

[pure raven]

Why no lionman g4 form ?

[sonic plaza]

i think its possible for sure, but
the form itself wouldn't focus on coc

every gear 4 form uses the same level and type of haki, its just different inflations in his body

[pure raven]

Don't u guys think that it is weird that we have not seen a single marine using conqurer's haki

[sonic plaza]

i think sengoku and garp have it

[pure raven]

Garp I don't think so

[sonic plaza]

but, tbh, i wouldnt be surprised if koby gets it

[pure raven]

Why coby

[sonic plaza]

if he is going to actually rival Luffy in the future, he will likely need coc

[pure raven]

I dont know where but i read that all adimral have to possess all 3 types of haki

Dont know about its authentucity

Will be good if someone csn provide any source from manga sbs or oda interview

[pure raven]

Well oda said that only sengoku have

Garp?
He should also have 3 types of haki

[grizzled fog]

There is no source because that was never once stated or implied

[pure raven]

I also want 2know about that that what conqurer's haki is

[dense wing]

All VA’s have Haki

It is never stated that admirals need all three types. Only that all Vice Admirals use Haki

[pure raven]

The fact that conqurer's haki shows the ability of being king but what king. The fact that there is always argument Regarding what type of king one want 2 become

[pure raven]

Oh maybe i wrongly interpruted that all 3tyoes nedded

Sorry folks for misinfo.

[pure raven]

Any theories on who tf is Who’s Who??

[dusky acorn]

One theory suggests Who's Who was a previous Warlord before the main story began. This would thereby add a sense of thematics to his fight with Jinbei- former warlord vs former warlord, both of which becoming subordinates to other infamous crews. It'd also offer a good sense of world-building to the series if that were the case.
Main evidence going for this is Who's Who seeing Jinbei as his time as a Warlord, which may have occurred at one of those holy land meetups. There's also Who's Who telling Jinbei to show some pride as a former Warlord and stop picking on his underlings, almost as if he knows how a Warlord should be acting. It's a stretch, but possible additional evidence nonetheless

[grizzled fog]

I quite like the idea of Who’s who being a former warlord, mainly because I just love finding out about other legends and infamous pirates we don’t already know about, it’d be nice world building.

[green idol]

now that the fight of kaido and luffy is commensing we wont see any peaks of the fight until chapter 118 prolly

[fallow knot]

He can be a pirate and jinbei as a warlord puts an end to his journey I guess

[pure raven]

Yo, isn't the one piece the real ponerglyph? Just sayin'

[pure raven]

There is a poneglph at laugh tale a big one which has entire story and history engraved +treasures andd other things which we will se

im at 450 ep rn

[buoyant rover]

oof

[proven elbow]

why are you even here?

don't spoil yourself lol

[pure raven]

yeah ty

[pure raven]

I knew ace did when i was in the albasta arc

I knew sabo is alive (without knowing who tf is he ) after albasta arc

Thats how my friendship ended

[maiden terrace]

Yo i've seen you while we were talking about coc in the spoilers chat

[fallow knot]

One piece is all about all races live together I guess

[neat estuary]

Hey all!

[pure raven]

yo

[wheat skiff]

Yep yep, gotta love all the lore

[arctic summit]

in my theory zoro has to be lost 6 more times for the one piece to be found

[chrome spruce]

[hardy bear]

Six piece?

[opal portal]

I think katakuri will join the straw hats because after big mom gets defeated he has no where to go and protect him self ( i think bb will be after him and try to recruit him or steal his devil fruit) so his best option is the straw hats (I believe this will be after zoro learns ryuo and future sight)

[patent summit]

Nah probably not

[weary carbon]

He would still want to protect his family though. I don't see him leaving

[nocturne mango]

I think Katakuri will take over the Big Mom pirates.

[tawdry bramble]

Big Bro pirates

[nocturne mango]

Mochi Pirates

[fringe tide]

So bm betrays kaido cause of tama? Now i just need tama to say that marine is bullying me so the bm pirates go to war with marineford where shell dies

[nocturne mango]

I think BM will just rampage downstairs for a little bit.

[fallow knot]

I think the last fight will happen between world government vs pirate alliances.ofcourse Luffy will be in lead but tht doesn't mean every pirate gonna join him.

[haughty goblet]

Oden was crying and laughing at the same time when Gol d roger died is because he held his end of the bargain in the best way possible meaning our heros today can have their best chances in succeeding, while oden was dancing he wasn’t sure the plan was a go but then he was like gol d roger you god damn god

[fallow knot]

I think shanks will be the one who leds strawhats to truth about world government. Now I guess sabo will also tell dragon. And they will make an alliance with other pirates, Marines to overthrow the current system.

[acoustic helm]

Luffy defeated doffy ,cuz a girl gave him tiffin

Bm beats koido subordinate cuz of oshiruko debt

Logic doesn't apply to them 😂

[dense wing]

I actually really like this,

But instead of Road Poneglyphs it represents the 4 islands the glyphs point to, with One Piece or the Ancient Kingdom as the center

[gentle jewel]

Wait did Rayleigh know ace was Rogers son?

[ancient vault]

doubt it, unless shanks told him when he met him again

[winged stirrup]

I really like the idea about it

[amber oar]

maybe he learned when Sengoku spilled the beans in worldwide broadcast, like everyone

[gentle jewel]

i mean like before that

[amber oar]

probably not. Even WB as an established Emperor didn't know until Ace himself told him

[nocturne mango]

I am with Montblac.

[ancient vault]

You think ace told shanks?

[pure raven]

What is big mom isnt defeated but is helped by straw hats on elbaf

[sacred hawk]

You know how Yamato and Kaido can send air blasts by swinging their clubs?

I think something like that would be a cool powerup for Sanji.

It's possible to kick the air to stay afloat, and it's possible to send blades of wind

So I don't see why just blunt force air kicks are impossible

[sand sail]

They're not

That's Rankyaku

Ultimately it'll always be something he could do, since people as weak as whatshisface from Drum island could send air waves as an attack

There's even Elizabello's King Punch, which also flies

And Burgess's Hado Elbow or whatever it was

[weak arrow]

I use my headcanon that he already did it against doflamingo because the attack he actually used makes it look like his legs are rubber

but yes it would be cool if Sanji could, and I fully expect he'd be able to if he wanted to

[sand sail]

Nah, Sanji's always been able to do carpet bombing kinda things like that

He does it on Jabura too, just not on fire

[weak arrow]

Do you have a panel of it? i want to see exactly how it differs

Sanji legit looks like he's like 20-30 feet away in this one

[fringe tide]

Yeah i thought he already had air blast type attacks when he fought the flying fodders on fmi

[sand sail]

Stuff like this is what I mean, he's always had that kind of floating flurry of kicks he rains on people

[zinc iris]

In particular calling it "spectre" didn't happen before the timeskip, and the other one that used "spectre" for a flurry attack was Ivankov with the galaxy wink
so I think part of it is what he learned while on momoiro island

[weak arrow]

Yeah Bean, but Sanji is still like, realistically close enough it makes sense in there. It's basically a gatling but without being rubber, but his kicks against doflamingo are far out

[fringe tide]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W2lLEIuDGs4 couldnt find the manga scans for it but its shows that its fiery air blast in anime

Towards the very end of vid

[exotic echo]

Adam have you considered it was a lack of space on the panel? or is it just too far to consider that being a possibility

[weak arrow]

I mean, it really does look like it's 20-30 feet away and then even then, the context even makes it seem like there's distance

[kind gate]

tbh adam is right sanji does look really far away in that panel

[weak arrow]

The one in FMI is realistic enough to be making contact in contrast

[kind gate]

this one is really far as well I think

[weak arrow]

Interestingly enough, the anime makes Sanji make contact for Doflamingo

and holy shit i forgot about Dressrosa dragging garbage

He does the Spectre attack for 30 seconds

[night jewel]

this counts as him sort of shooting an air cannon right? expect its fire because he is using diable jambe

[warm zenith]

Tama tames kaido?

[kind gate]

no

if you aren't caught up go to #catching-up

[mint patio]

Oda trolls everyone and Tama tames Big Mom

[nocturne mango]

https://c.tenor.com/Nu-NwQY_J7sAAAAM/liu-kang-bicycle-kick.gif

Sanji = Bruce Lee/Liu Kang

[burnt ibex]

i dont think what we say in chapter 1010+ was advanced conquerors

[kind gate]

bruh

[weak arrow]

People are seeing the light

Although I wonder if anyone’s changed their mind just because of big mom used the same thing and they refuse to believe BM could do it cause people hate bIg MeMe

[kind gate]

lol he was arguing over the use of terminology

[manic relic]

Check my new name and lets talk again end 2021-begin 2022

[obsidian phoenix]

personally i dont even think yonko will be a thing after wano, but sure

[burnt ibex]

wdym?

big mom and kaido will just be replaced. I think law could die so Kidd and Luffy replac them

[obsidian phoenix]

i think the world balance will be so different that they cant use the word yonko to describe it anymore
theres 2 emperors gone and their territories lost, the new world is now up for grabs, and everyone will be trying to cash in on it
so even if kidd and luffy are the frontrunners they wont have as much as terrifying influence as big mom and kaido did, and so itll be a new pirate age but in the new world

[burnt ibex]

only kaido will lose terriotory

they even said that when big mom dies katakuri will take the helm

[obsidian phoenix]

oda getting rid of the shichibukai is i feel a precursor to this i think hes going about destroying the old world

[burnt ibex]

and again kaido loses one island

[obsidian phoenix]

well katakuri doesnt command the same presence big mom did, and who even knows if he could effectively protect the kingdom
big moms name was enough to scare people off

i also think endgame one piece will see all 3 major powers destroyed or reformed and if theres a time to get rid of the yonko status its now

[sacred hawk]

Wait, why does everyone say that Luffy would be immune to whitebeard's fruit?

[burnt ibex]

katakuri possbily can

[obsidian phoenix]

rubber lessens blunt force pressure i doubt hes fully immune but he probably has some resistance to it @sacred hawk

[sonic plaza]

katakuri is easily top 10 in terms of current one piece strength

[sacred hawk]

But even if it's blunt force, Luffy isn't immune to shock waves.

He's been hurt by impact dials, and Lucci's Rokugan

[obsidian phoenix]

yeah, i dunno, he was able to tank sengokus buddha by going gear third so maybe?

[sacred hawk]

But that was a punch, not a shock wave

[obsidian phoenix]

also katakuri has a ton of individual strength but does he have the influence of a yonko is the question

[burnt ibex]

the new yonkos after big mom and kaido could be kidd and luffy or katakuri and luffy

[obsidian phoenix]

sengokus fruit uses shock waves too he did it to blackbeard

[burnt ibex]

nothing will exactly change when big mom and kaido are gone

[sonic plaza]

it will be kid. i dont think katakuri's goal is to be a yonko

[sacred hawk]

Also, Sengoku did hurt him, since Luffy coughed blood

[sonic plaza]

katakuri will just want to protect his family

[burnt ibex]

one island is lost that wasnt even affiliated with the government to begin with

[obsidian phoenix]

if nothing changes when two yonko are gone, when will things change? cause they'll have to eventually

[sonic plaza]

luffy will likely be regarded as the strongest pirate in the world, like WB was pre-timeskip

[burnt ibex]

big mom may lose some terroity cause katakuri would care less and thats it

[burnt ibex]

its just that those specific yonko are gone cause nothing is really replaces

[obsidian phoenix]

there has to be visible structural change in the world

[burnt ibex]

with wb multiple islands were tooken into chaos

with kaido the island didnt belong to the goverment ot begin with just the presence of kaido is gone and replaced by luffy

[obsidian phoenix]

they tried to replace the shichibukai too, and luffy just kept beating them down until they just retired the shichibukai altogether
a similar thing will happen with the yonko i bet

[sonic plaza]

i feel like Luffy's bounty will surpass 4b after Wano just cause the WG will view him as the biggest threat in the world besides Dragon

[burnt ibex]

the goverment can't retire the yonko cause its not a goverment system?

[obsidian phoenix]

i mean narratively

[burnt ibex]

there will still be yonko as long as there is still land to conqeror in the new world. The goverment may try but pirates will always fight back

[sonic plaza]

if you guys think about it, Luffy was responsible for 4 warlords' resignation

[obsidian phoenix]

yeah pirates will fight back. im saying there wont be anyone who can truly replace yonko
odas gone to great lengths to show us the worst generation as a whole is trying to take the stage so i think itd mess up that plan if he made only two of them yonko
plus luffy doesnt even wanna be a yonko lol

[burnt ibex]

what will change is just the worlds view on luffy as that will be the final event that will show the world that luffy is far from playing anymore

[cedar sinew]

it's not just physical properties that matter. Kaido and BM have very broad connections and allied pirates similar to WB. We also don't know the full extent to the territory they have. Just imagine 2 WBs disappearing at onec

[burnt ibex]

roger was called pirate kings by the people not himself. luffy will be called a yonko by the people until he is pirate king

[obsidian phoenix]

just one whitebeard disappearing threw the world into chaos until blackbeard took advantage of it
two yonkos disappearing will cause a lot more world instability that probably wont be resolved until luffy becomes the pirate king
having that instability is good for luffy because it gives him the chance to rise to the top much more easily, instead of contending with other pirates for the spot of a yonko first

[burnt ibex]

yes we do. Kaido basically only wano and I dont think he claimed any more territory as then why would the new onighima project be a thing then?

[obsidian phoenix]

he has territory, drake landed on one of his islands right as he entered the new world

[burnt ibex]

forgot about that true

[cedar sinew]

he has at least one other island

[sand sail]

Being the Pirate King should have no bearing on it

Those territories don't suddenly bow to him

[cedar sinew]

do you really think kaido has onigashima and that's it? He needs supplies and resources for all his men. They all come from some where, he has massive connections. ONE example is his contract with Doffy, which reaches back to Caesar. He could have so many of these that we haven't seen yet

[burnt ibex]

Most of the supernova wont be around anymore. I dont think hawkins and apoo will be chilling with the big dogs anymore after there eventual ass whooping in wano

[sacred hawk]

Out of the supernovas, I feel like the ones who'll be considered the next rulers of the sea would be Luffy, Law, Kid, and Bege. Because they're the only ones who never gave up their ambitions in the face of the Yonko's overwhelming power

And maybe Urouge

[burnt ibex]

Boney might go with the revolutionaries from what we saw from her in the reverie

Begge might retire and stay with his big mafia family

[sand sail]

Evidently that one island that Scotch guards is his favorite food island, and at least in the novels, each Emperor seems to have a favorite food place

[cedar sinew]

did it specify food? I do remember it being Kaido's favorite of some sort

[burnt ibex]

idk uroge cause he has been the most dry out of all of them and then drake will go back to the marines or stay undercover

[sand sail]

That's extra material I wanna say, I may also be quoting the novel completely but either way, there's the concept

I'm pretty sure it was from the Vivre cards

[fast hollow]

What about nami's power up??

[vestal bone]

Prob just Zeus

[burnt ibex]

i expected zeus and prometheus but thats not gonna happen

[vestal bone]

Prometheus would be cool

Small gag of him being a tsun cuz of the heat balls

[sonic plaza]

what about usopp power up?

do you think it could be armament haki that he infuses in his ammo

[ember matrix]

Here's the thing. I really like his current ammo with the pop greens but they don't seem strong enough.

[sonic plaza]

like at marineford, the WB commanders used guns with haki infused bullets

it would be the perfect upgrade that would actually make usopp strong

[wicked grove]

Okay I’ve been seeing this theory a lot but I’m gonna throw it out there. There’s a good chance Dragon’s fruit is some Mythical Zoan: Thunderbird. TLDR: Thunderbirds are capable of shooting lightning bolts from their eyes and flapping their wings to create thunder. In fact, it’s said that where they land, a storm follows. (Ooh phrasing)

In Alogonquian images, the thunderbird is usually depicted in an X shape. Similarly to Dragon’s face tattoo. It’s also known to assume a human form and remove its feathers (which could be taken off and put on like a blanket), as well as tipping their beaks up their head like a mask. Maybe not a blanket or mask for Dragon, but a cloak with a hood? Potentially.

Moreover, they’ve been known to protect humans from evil spirits (ex: Great Horned Serpent) and serve as guiding figures. As far as we know, Dragon’s mission his entire life is to dissolve the Celestial Dragon system—a system he deems evil.

This was kinda half assed. Feel free to roast me on how bad it is

[burnt ibex]

ussop's pop green stuff does kinda suck

[ember matrix]

Yeah that would be cool, but I still want him to have his unique style and not use generic bullets

[burnt ibex]

oda is just like ok lemme think of a plant then give it a random effect like sleepiness or it can turn into a boat

for most straw-hat we know there go to moves but ussop just spews random stuff. Skull bomb grass should of be used more as a go to attack for ussop

[ember matrix]

I like the idea, though I'll admit i don't know much about thunderbirds.

[wicked grove]

Tbh I dunno why Oda would be into Native American mythology but it’s just stuff I’ve noticed. Nothing too concrete ofc

[burnt ibex]

i thought he had like the storm storm df or something not becoming zaptos

[wicked grove]

I just like to speculate 🤷🏻‍♂️ plus I can theorize a specific Zoan type that might not exist better than a Paramecia/Logia that might not exist

[burnt ibex]

I do hope oda throws a lot of logias and zoans at us for upcoming final of one piece

since there have been more paramecia's in the show

[ember matrix]

Yeah. That would be my main issue, since I don't know how well known the mythology is (esp in Japan) for Oda to give it to Dragon it needs to have some audience impact too. But we did have some native american elements in shandora so Oda could have seen it...

[ember matrix]

well that just comes with fruit rarity, but endgame will have the big players so chances of rare fruits should increase (like all the ancient zoans rn)

[wicked grove]

My head canon is also telling me that I really just wanna see more insane Mythical Zoans

I know that defeats the “mythical” aspect but I feel like one more wouldn’t hurt

[ember matrix]

Definitely agree

I'm personally biased towards getting yamato as a white tiger

[wicked grove]

I love it. Would fit perfectly with Kaido’s. Azure Dragon and White Tiger

All we need is a huge ass tortoise and a vermilion bird to complete the set

[pure raven]

[burnt ibex]

it be to much of s stretch no pun intended

how would that even work?

[dark palm]

@stone lynx keep this channel serious, thanks

[stone lynx]

That was serious

[maiden terrace]

Mythical Zoans are strong

They are rare but since they are strong, luffy and the sh will find them because of their uprise in power and fame

[wary sable]

oh I think I've come across this theory before and it has more basis than the wind fruit imo mainly because of dragon's tattoo. and thunderbirds are said to bring thunder, rain, and wind with it when it flies. i like that theory.

[zealous grail]

Wow Thunderbirds is a very interesting and plausible theory. That'd be really cool to see and I hope it does become true

[zinc iris]

prometheus however makes little sense with nami's skillset

nami can control zeus because he's a sentient cloud and she is the weather master so it's within the scope of her abilities, prometheus is just a ball of fire

[pure raven]

Zeus alreafy attached affection to nami so she only gettin zeus

[zinc iris]

at best nami might be able to do something with hera

but prometheus is really one she has no power over

[blissful lion]

why didnt anyone think of just bringing a water bucket then they could wasily beat prometheus

[cyan berry]

Jinbei threw a water spear at him and it barely slowed him down

Also I don't think having a bucket of water with you at all times is exactly practical

[blissful lion]

that was a joke....

[cyan berry]

Then refer to this channels topic

[blissful lion]

oh wait

i never fully read rules sorry

[zinc iris]

it's not enough

[sly karma]

we still dont know what roger said to shanks or what luffy said to shanks to prompt the straw hat and imagine if roger told shanks he would be joyboy who brings destruction to the world which is why there was that apology poneglyph and shanks has been on his journey and saw luffy and knew he was joyboy and entrusted luffy with the power and wants to keep the world moving keeping peace between pirates and his time at the reverie was to talk about joyboy (luffy) and wanting to prevent destruction of the world which would prompt shanks to fight luffy eventually and put shanks as an opposing force to luffy in the series

[velvet edge]

#promote-yourself @hardy horizon

[swift fox]

@hardy horizon could you summarize the theory? I only understand like half of it. Btw, Trying to think up what to say is harder. I think preparing a script can help

[hardy horizon]

damn, ok. i just posted on reddit but I will copy it here. Summary:

Thesis: Big Mom didn't eat the orphans, what happened instead is that CP0 showed up to kidnap Big Mom and the children, chaos ensued and Mother Carmel possessed Big Mom with her devil fruit powers.

Arguments:

-Streusen was seen laughing after the fact. I don't care about how sick in the head someone is, nobody laughs after seeing a child cannibalizing another

-No sign of children being eaten, no blood, no broken clothes. If you counterargument is that it would be too gruesome, then why include cannibalism at all, even if it was offscreen? Oda is a very consistent writer, he wouldn't do something like this without leaving hints around, but we have ZERO hints Big Mom ate the children
IF it's true that cannibalizing another human gets you their power, now THAT would be extremly gruesome, as we would see people in search of power cannibalizing ability-users. Is that really the direction you see One Piece going towards?

• CP0 wanted Big Mom, but they didn't want to pay all that money. It's not far-fetched that they would try to take her by force, along with the other children. The children have recognizable designs, which makes me think we will see them again wearing CP0's uniform.

-Big Mom's personality changed a lot after this instance. From good-hearted kid who only hurt others because of her clumsiness to manipulative hag. The latter is very much similar to Mother Carmel's personality, which makes me think that she used her Soul-soul powers to possess Big Mom to save herself from a deadly situation.

-One of the reasons people jumped the gun is because back in fishman island we HEARD a conversation between Big Mom and some minions of her where Big Mom eventually is heard eating them. But then when got to Whole Cake Island we found out about homies. I'ts clear that in that scene in Fishman Island Big Mom was eating homie food and not her underlings.

[swift fox]

Did you notice the cream buns getting bigger after Big mom's friends try to offer cream buns? Those big cream buns are the orphans, and mother caramel is included because the last cream bun is the largest and that's her. Streusen was laughing because he has never seen a "monster”.

Also it isn't the first time one piece has written something dark/disturbing, spandam getting clutched by robin, smoothie sucking out her undelings, zeff eating his own leg

[hardy horizon]

no. is that in the manga? it's possible you may remember it wrong. Anyway, you haven't addreessed a lot of the other points. As for "it's not the first time one piece got dark" all those instances were inconsequential. If it's true that cannibalizing an ability user gets you their powers and One Piece villains find out, that would change One Piecce entirely in a way that doesn't fit the tone. And by the way none of the things you cited compare to cannibalizing children.

[swift fox]

https://youtu.be/cDTVT1-OWt8

Observe the cream buns getting bigger

[night jewel]

no broken clothes

this was the outfit carmel was wearing btw

[ancient vault]

theres more also the giant so what happened. If it was truly cp0 kidnapping the kids then elbaf wouldnt be hating BM as much as they do rn

[hardy horizon]

that's fair, still there are many reasons why it would be there besides her being cannibalized

[ancient vault]

how sick in the head someone is, nobody laughs after seeing a child cannibalizing another

1. this is fiction
2. youre heavily underestimating how sick ppl can be in the head

He also didnt see BM as a kid. He saw her as a monster more so

[copper frost]

how did big mom gain the powers of carmel then

[swift fox]

How to quote a specific text?

[ancient vault]

r u on pc?

[hardy horizon]

I think she hurt Mother Carmel somehow and that's why giants hate her, cause Mother Carmle was a hero for them

[swift fox]

Nope, I'm on phone

[ancient vault]

then i dont know how to
I just copy paste it, mark it and press the quote option

[hardy horizon]

with possession, although this is speculation. my main point is that tha cannibalism that everyone thinks ahppened, diidn't happen

[copper frost]

-Big Mom's personality changed a lot after this instance. From good-hearted kid who only hurt others because of her clumsiness to manipulative hag. The latter is very much similar to Mother Carmel's personality, which makes me think that she used her Soul-soul powers to possess Big Mom to save herself from a deadly situation.
her personality didn't change immediately, streusen convinced big mom otherwise and it seems like it was sometime later that she starts becoming a relatively huge threat with a bounty on her head, she also had the experience of being in the rocks pirates and doing more piracy over all these years

you dont gain the personality of a person suddenly, the reason she's a manipulative hag is because of all the experience and piracy she has done over the years, which serves her well since she also has the empire and the capabilities to boot

[ancient vault]

the reason she's a manipulative hag is because of all the experience and piracy she has done over the years
And also because streussen manipulated her

[hardy horizon]

we've seen her turn when she was still very young in the flashback though. anyway, as I said, that part is more speculation than anything

[swift fox]

We haven't seen a devil fruit user voluntarily remove his/her fruit

[ancient vault]

I think hes speculating that she transferred her entire soul into BM

which basically resulted in BM getting mother carmels powers in his theory

[hardy horizon]

yes, thank you. anyway I'm out guys, I just wanted to put the theory out there if someone found it inderesting, I'm not interested in defending it. thank you for reading

[ancient vault]

[swift fox]

#old-role-info btw if you wanna send pics

[sturdy hawk]

The "Waaaah" sound effect is about people asking for help

That's what the SFX means

[zinc iris]

are we still searching convoluted reasons to not admit big mom got her powers by cannibalizing carmel?

[sturdy hawk]

-Big Mom's personality changed a lot after this instance. From good-hearted kid who only hurt others because of her clumsiness to manipulative hag. The latter is very much similar to Mother Carmel's personality, which makes me think that she used her Soul-soul powers to possess Big Mom to save herself from a deadly situation.
This is a really speedreader take, we know why she changed to that. And the reason is Streusen taking advantage of her

-Streusen was seen laughing after the fact. I don't care about how sick in the head someone is, nobody laughs after seeing a child cannibalizing another

1. Streusen groomed her and is a psycho
2. See attachment

-One of the reasons people jumped the gun is because back in fishman island we HEARD a conversation between Big Mom and some minions of her where Big Mom eventually is heard eating them. But then when got to Whole Cake Island we found out about homies. I'ts clear that in that scene in Fishman Island Big Mom was eating homie food and not her underlings.
This is false, people talk about her eating the kids because of her hunger pangs, which are supposed to represent her lacking clarity or any train of thought

[ember trench]

Big Mom probably just grew up to become evil due to being a criminal and being so powerful she can take whatever she wants

[obtuse gazelle]

I agree

[supple nimbus]

Streusen, it was Streusen.

[ember trench]

I don’t think it’s just streusen

Streusen took advantage of her power and all but she was pretty much doing whatever she wanted from there

[pastel summit]

big memers like to remove accountability from Big Mom so they can say she's a uwu wholesome cute character who was just led astray.

[ember trench]

Her personality now just seems like a natural progression of how she acted as a kid. She’s strong enough to take whatever she wants so why shouldnt she?

[obtuse gazelle]

It’s pretty much the sum of all of her life experiences from being abandoned by her parents to losing her new friends to meeting Rocks Pirates ... but she still has her “good” side as part of the sum

[supple nimbus]

Lilin was at a very impressionable age. She just lost the only parental figure she had. Her child mind was in a state of shock, along came Streusen to conveniently take the role. He merely controlled and impressed things onto her, and let her run free.

[sturdy hawk]

Are you denying she was born kind?

[pastel summit]

it's more like, he just let her run free. pretty much everyone did, because they had no capacity to control her.

[ember trench]

I don’t think she has a “good” side really. Just whims and justifications for her behavior.

[pastel summit]

Are you denying that after a certain age, it's not just "wow ur parents sucked" it's "wow u suck"?

[supple nimbus]

Yeah he just used her hunger to control her. He could make food, and also had the power to convert things into food (although it tasted like horse-shit)

[obtuse gazelle]

She has morals she stands by no matter what

[ember trench]

She doesn’t really

[sturdy hawk]

She has a good side, that's the whole point of the Olin subplot

[ember trench]

She destroys countries over snacks. How many kids do you thinks she would have killed on Fishman Island?

It’s a joke to say she has a moral compass when she is capable of such wanton destruction and mass death over something so insignificant

[obtuse gazelle]

I don’t think we have the whole story yet, that’s just the apparent side of it I guess. Or maybe she only cares for those who treated her right, which was probably not the case for FMI

[ember trench]

She thinks she has a “moral code” over people like Kaido but that’s really just her own justification for her behavior

[pastel summit]

^

[sturdy hawk]

I'm not talking about real life, the point of her flashback and Olin is to show she was born kind and her memories shaped her up to who she is now

[pastel summit]

The hypocrisy of it is that she thinks she's a good person, and justifies her actions by having a "noble goal", but her actions are anything but.

[sturdy hawk]

Whether you like it or not, it's the opposite of what happened to Doflamingo, who was born evil

[pastel summit]

"Oh, it's fine to destroy FMI over snacks, because I want fishmen to be happy" is literally her line of logic.

[sturdy hawk]

I'm replying to this

[obtuse gazelle]

Doflamingo was not born evil, he was rather born in an environment that puts his kin to the highest of standards and are treated like gods, so he was raised to believe that is the truth of things and that’s how life should be

[pastel summit]

Yes. My dude, she's 68 and she threatens to destroy countries for not giving her snacks on time. That's not just because "streusen manipulated her 60 yrs ago". At some point, it's not JUST because of Streusen. You have to acknowledge that she has autonomy over her own actions, and is experienced enough to not be bound by what Streusen taught her or didn't teach her.

[pastel summit]

yeah okay, posting rosinante's dogshit assessment as if he existed when doffy was born.

[sturdy hawk]

That sounds like cope

[obtuse gazelle]

This was before we saw what truly happened in Doflamingo’s flashback

[sturdy hawk]

After

[ancient vault]

arent you a big memer

[keen portal]

It's fair to say doflamingo was born less empathetic than a normal person.

But he wasn't born a murdering psychopath

[pastel summit]

why would you think that

[ancient vault]

well you constantly call her big meme

[pastel summit]

yeah, and big memers are people who side with big meme.

[ancient vault]

then what r u

[pastel summit]

rational

[ember trench]

We know why Doffy is the way he is anyway and it’s not just because he was “born evil”. He saw both Heaven and Hell from a young age and it warped him. Granted so did Rosinante but people react to things in different ways.

[ancient vault]

im saving that lfmao

[sturdy hawk]

I don't put the blame all on Streusen, I also put it on Mother Carmel because she didn't teach her better

[ember trench]

Rosi is also far from the most unbiased perspective on his brother

[pastel summit]

so you put no accountability on BM herself

[sturdy hawk]

I think environment shapes a person

[undone iris]

Guys, big mom was told by lola she's a good person, her dream is to unite all races at one table and have a tea party. She's a good person but was raised by evil people

[ember trench]

She’s an evil person with a good idea on paper that in practice is pretty awful

[pastel summit]

for anything she has ever done. So all actions someone takes is due to their parental figures or lack thereof? So Luffy's actions aren't because of himself, they're because of Dragon? Luffy has no autonomy over his own actions, it's because of Dragon Luffy does the things he does. And subsequently, Dragon does the things he does because of Garp?

[undone iris]

She was a person who only wanted to be kind and had the body of an ox

[obtuse gazelle]

Same applies for Doflamingo, even though Homie wanted to go the other way, it was weird for him because that wasn’t the norm we was raised to believe in and by which his environment is leading

[ancient vault]

dragon didnt raise him so no to that

[pastel summit]

Environment shapes a person yes. But there's a point in your life where you have to start taking accountability for your own actions.

[undone iris]

And people manipulated her. One piece is all about graying the lines between good and bad

[ember trench]

It’s not

[pastel summit]

Yes, dragon didn't raise Luffy, so luffy's actions are determined by dragon NOT raising him, which means it's still due to dragon.

[undone iris]

What have we actually seen big mom do evil?

[ancient vault]

[ember trench]

You serious?

[sturdy hawk]

I'd say r*ping husbands is pretty evil

[undone iris]

Shes a pirate

[weak arrow]

Sentn Bobbins to destroy an island because they couldnt send her the sweets

[ancient vault]

she killed her own son and raped men

[obtuse gazelle]

She killed her son

[pastel summit]

raping husbands is pretty low on the list.

[ancient vault]

[undone iris]

She took his soul, she can still give it back she's big mom

[keen portal]

What big mom needs is accountability, not unconditional forgiveness. For there to be a believable redemption there must be accountability first.

If you say all her actions are not her fault because she was raised by evil people 6 decades ago, then you remove personal responsibility from her totally. And thus no accountability.

Yes maybe she had good intentions behind her actions, but does that absolve her completely?

[sturdy hawk]

Doflamingo was born evil and people fuelled him with hatred, doesn't mean that he wouldn't have been evil by himself

[ember trench]

She wanted to destroy Fishman island over candy, sends people severed heads of their loved ones for not attending her parties, doesn’t let citizens leave her country under threat of death

[night jewel]

I think fed is saying that Big Mom wasnt born as an evil person, she was influenced by her environment, the people in the environment, etc, her current ideals are her own but there is no lie in saying that she wasnt born evil but developed into a very terrible person. she is responsible for her own actions, i dont think anyone is denying that

[undone iris]

And rape? We have no proof of that she abandons them after she gets her kids but we have no proof of rape

[ancient vault]

Its heavily implied

[ember trench]

I don’t think it matters whether she was born evil lr not

[sturdy hawk]

Dis

[pastel summit]

fed is absolutely denying it arsal. He's just said her actions are due to carmel and streusen. Not herself.

[undone iris]

I^

[night jewel]

her ideals are due to carmel and struesen, which influences her current actions

[ember trench]

Idk about rape but the way she discards her husbands and doesn’t let them see their children is pretty messed up

[sturdy hawk]

Of course I think her actions are still due to her, however you cannot fault her due to the way she grew up

[undone iris]

That's not evil though

[ember trench]

Don’t worry I have plenty of other evil things on the list

[pastel summit]

No, but you can fault her for not choosing to change.

[sturdy hawk]

How would she change if she wasn't taught better

[undone iris]

Big mom has not expressly been seeing doing anything extraordinarily evil for the pirate villans we've had

[delicate sedge]

I can more or less understand BM position with tama´s village, kaido crew burned it for the lols, while she burns thing to obtain something not just because cruelty

[ember trench]

She wanted to destroy Fishman island over candy, sends people severed heads of their loved ones for not attending her parties, doesn’t let citizens leave her country under threat of death

[ancient vault]

bruh archer just listed it

[undone iris]

She didn't though

[pastel summit]

That's removing personal responsibility. She's an adult. She should know better. There's a point where your life outlook shouldn't be determined solely by who raised you.

[ancient vault]

You probably think kaido also didnt do anything evil

[ember trench]

She didn’t to Fishman island but she did to several other countries before WCI lol

[undone iris]

I disputed his claims rape is a reach and the son thing she can just put his soul back

[sturdy hawk]

I disagree, I think she is an overgrown child

[weak arrow]

She orders someone to go cut off invitee's loved one's heads off if they dont show up

[ancient vault]

how is rape a reach when even fed admits to it

[ember trench]

We know at least one case where she actually did it

Also assassinating Sanji at the wedding (who cares about the Vinsmokes)

[sturdy hawk]

reee I don't excuse her actions, I always said they are undeniably evil

[ancient vault]

She literally collects humans in Mont D'ors book. Wether they are prisoners or just ppl she wants to keep in her collection

[pastel summit]

she literally threatens genocide over snacks, she threatens brutally murdering innocents over tea parties, she barely has any respect for most of her own family or others. She runs an authoritarian state where she kills you if you try to leave. She constantly wages war just to get ingredients for the copious amounts of food she eats.

[undone iris]

I said "we haven't seen her do anything expressly evil for the villans we've had" if we are comparing big moms evil deeds to child trafficking, over throwing countries, assassinations for the thrill of it then she's very mild

[keen portal]

I have no basis for this, since we don't know yet, but if environmental upbringing is a big part in big mom's personality, shouldn't her time on the rocks crew have been one big influence too?

Shouldn't she have gained some perspective there? That she's not the only strong bully who can force people to do things?

[pastel summit]

she literally does over throw countries

[undone iris]

We haven't seen her do it

[ember trench]

She also assassinates people on a whim for her tea parties

[pastel summit]

we have. That's what bobbin did.

[night jewel]

they didnt teach her any better when she was little, carmel and streusen are the reason why her ideals developed the way they did, children are highly impressionable so the things they learn, their beliefs etc that are developed at a young age are hard to just fucking get rid of

[undone iris]

When was the arc big mom over threw a country

[sturdy hawk]

She was already pretty old by the time she was on Rocks, you don't really teach people how to grow up once they have fully grown, at least how I see it

[night jewel]

literally in her intro she had sent bobbins to overthrow a country

[ember trench]

WCI. She did worse. She destroyed countries for the ingredients for her cake.

[weak arrow]

Her introduction was bobbins coming back to her to tell her he destroyed an island because they didnt give the sweets as promised

[night jewel]

and in her re intro, we saw her kids destroying islands for the ingredients of wedding cake

[undone iris]

She is a child in an ox body, she still has tea parties, and she throws tantrums when they are ignored. She has obscene strength and was raised by evil people. All we've seen of big mom is her angry side, and glimpses of good. We get 0 glimpses of good from others. If crocodile and Bon clay can be allies big mom can too

[pastel summit]

you just said she's an overgrown child, but treat her like an adult when it's convenient. Is she easily impressionable, or not?

[undone iris]

Her reason for saying she can't shouldn't be that she was more successful than the people we knew prior

[ember trench]

That cake was made with the blood of thousands of innocents and Luffy just jumped out of it for fun

[keen portal]

I get that. I get her childlike cruelty being ingrained already.

But shouldn't her time in the rocks crew, however old she was then, taught her that she can't get everything because she wants it?

[night jewel]

we have no way to tell, but this is another good reason as to why we need to see a rocks portion in kaido's flashback

[undone iris]

I have been saying big mom will be their ally since lola gave the verve card

[ember trench]

Gross

[night jewel]

we have no way to tell what went down in her time as a rocks pirate, what she was busy doing, etc etc, so we literally cant say anything just yet

[sturdy hawk]

Why are you treating that like they are mutually exclusive? I said that her mentality was still of a child, but she is an adult because she already fully developed, but still has that mentality

[keen portal]

Ye I guess.

[delicate sedge]

Rocks was all about getting everithing they wanted because they were pirates elvaria, only thing that can stop you is not being the strongest

[ember trench]

Luffy hates Big Mom and vice versa

[keen portal]

Yes and rocks was taken down by a marine and an upstart pirate

[undone iris]

Luffy doesn't hate big mom, luffy hates borderline noone

[ember trench]

He hates plenty of people

[keen portal]

So you CAN'T get everything you want just because you want it

[undone iris]

All he did was try to get his crew member back. He "hated" crocodile too

[sturdy hawk]

I'd say Big Mom is pretty low on the list of villains he hates tbh lol

[night jewel]

he quite literally said that he hates big mom

[zinc iris]

it's not like he got over croc

[undone iris]

And if she offers him food, do u think he won't forgive her?

[ember trench]

No

[night jewel]

he wont

[zinc iris]

he just thought his grudge was not worth hampering the escape effort

[ember trench]

Luffy is not Goku

[undone iris]

We've been told that having the support of a yonko is a major help in the grandline too. Who seems the most utility based yonko we've seen?

[ancient vault]

was he really an upstart pirate tho

[keen portal]

In big mom's eyes he would be

[ancient vault]

he was a rookie for more than 14 years?

[zinc iris]

luffy can be that yonko

[ember trench]

We were told that it is one of two ways to survive in the New World on top of challenging an emperor. Guess which one Luffy chose?

[undone iris]

Luffy doesn't have utility

[pastel summit]

luffy has a lot of utility.

[zinc iris]

more like yonko won't be a thing after this arc

[ember trench]

Luffy is basically an emperor-lite at this point

[undone iris]

Incomparison to big mom luffy has no utility

[zinc iris]

new world order here we go

[ancient vault]

yahooo east blue pirates can go to new world now

[pastel summit]

nope. luffy has a lot more. Luffy doesn't need to strongarm people into becoming his allies. He naturally convinces them.

He doesn't need BM as an ally. Never has, never will. Them teaming up is a meme.

[ember trench]

Big Mom is currently in Wano to kill Luffy and restore her reputation. Makes no sense

[undone iris]

That's not utility, that's charisma

[pastel summit]

and his charisma is utilized.

[undone iris]

Okay so can luffies charisma get him or a crew member to zeff if someone someone about him to his unfavour?

[ember trench]

Luffy has subordinates, allies, and territories now. He doesn’t need the backing of an emperor when he practically is one himself now.

[ancient vault]

what? rephrase that

[pastel summit]

idk what you mean there.

[ember trench]

Not to mention Luffy is adamant about taking out all four of them

[undone iris]

If some said something about him that wasn't to his favour?* charisma is not utility

[ancient vault]

you mean like threatening zeff?

i mean luffy would pull up himself if sanji insisted on going there

[undone iris]

The fact that big mom had the capability to kid nap sanji from ZOU

Is proof of how much more utility big mom has than luffy dude

[ember trench]

Zou is in the new world

[pastel summit]

well, you've missed the point entirely, so not gonna continue this one.

[undone iris]

Zou is a roaming God damn elephant

[ancient vault]

the only got there cause of pekoms

[ember trench]

In the new world. And she found it because of Pekoms

[ancient vault]

and luffy found it cause of the samurais and now the minks are his allies. And not just one mink but the entire tribe lol

[ember trench]

Luffy > Big Mom

[undone iris]

Doesn't matter who is because of serml. It's utility. Charisma is not utility. End of story.

[ancient vault]

luffy has the entirety of fishman island behind him too

[ember trench]

Besides what is a mere emperor to the pirate king

[polar bison]

at some point as an adult, you do become responsible for your actions.

And it's hard to say for BM, because she's clearly extremely mentally ill, and the responsibility certain extremely mentally ill people are even capable of having over their own actions is not always clear.

But imo, with BM, we see that she clearly does have a moral code she intelligently follows of her own accord. In most normal situations, she is an intelligent person who's been exposed to enough worldviews competing for the one that Streusen manipulated her into, and she rejected all of them in favor of the self-centered, evil approach she seems to take from him. She's mentally ill, and that doesn't help at times... but if BM can come up with plans to murder the royalty of an entire nation she agreed to ally with, she has the mental capacity to consider that maybe morally what she's doing isn't great. And she's consistently chosen evil anyway.

She kind of got fucked over by her circumstances and the people around her... but she's not the only one, and there's plenty of people like her both in One Piece and the real world who grew up with just as shit circumstances and/or influences and still managed to make their way into being decent people. she's responsible for her actions .

[ancient vault]

What r u talking about lmao? What is the difference? If luffys charisma convinces ppl to help him whats the difference?

its a literal ability mentioned in the manga by mihawk

[undone iris]

Chocolate was saying luffy has as much utility as big mom because he doesn't have to strong arm allies. Which makes no sense since charisma isn't utility. Big mom can do anything she wants on a moments notice

[polar bison]

define what utility means to u

[undone iris]

Utility is the access to resources and advantages that would otherwise be beyond your reach or those of normal citizens. Just based off the sheer number of DF users big mom has more utility than luffy. Luffys great there's nothing wrong with not having as much utility as someone who has like, upderwarss of 10,000 soldiers

But he doesn't and to sate otherwise is just fan boying

[pastel summit]

Yeah exactly. I've gotten into the conversation about whether or not BM's "illness" is something that is within her control or not, but something she could've worked towards fixing, but chose not to, because she exists in a world where she ignores that she even has a problem, and no one wants to tell her, or they'd believe it to be futile. I do think it is something she could've reduced, or had more control over, but because she never worked towards it, nothing happened, and it got worse. You could even tie it into why she was so thin during the rocks days. Those are the people who WERE able to control her, and it helped her.

[ancient vault]

Utility is the access to resources and advantages that would otherwise be beyond your reach or those of normal citizens.
So how exactly does luffy not have those?

[undone iris]

I didnt say he DOESNT HAVE THEM I Said HE DOESNT HAVE AS MUCH AS BIG MOM

[ember trench]

Better question would be why does he need that

[pastel summit]

You do realize how many allies Luffy has, right? If he really wanted something specific that he couldn't get by himself, he could ask them.

[ancient vault]

He has wano, minks, fishman island, dressrosa, alabasta and several islands and an entire fleet of 5600 pirates behind him and many more to come

[ember trench]

All Luffy has to do is punch the bad guys and get the Poneglyphs

[pastel summit]

Yes, but you're arguing for why Luffy needs to team up with BM and using "utility" as a reason.

[undone iris]

Because later in the story, liffy will need to go to marine Ford, raftel and Fishman Island

[ember trench]

He can get to those places just fine

[undone iris]

Unless he's sailing back n forth and not getting help he will need a hand to be wuicker

[polar bison]

also from a story perspective, if Luffy really needs the help of BM's utility... he can just defeat her and then team up with katakuri taking over the remnants of her system. Oda could do that.

[undone iris]

thank you^

[ancient vault]

that doesnt work

[ember trench]

Meh

[obtuse gazelle]

Wut

[polar bison]

no that was arguing against u bc luffy would never team up with bm

[undone iris]

Okay nvm yall just wanna think about the show in the way you see it

[ancient vault]

Big Mom is the sole reason why her ressources dont just leave. Unless they make a new deal with luffy alone

[ember trench]

Why would Katakuri just hand over his family resources to Luffy

They’re not friends lol. They just respected one another.

[polar bison]

why would katakuri ally with Luffy? bc he freed his nation and family from a tyrannical dictator

[ancient vault]

Literally all her resources are bound by fear and threat. If she disappears why would they listen to kata

[ember trench]

Katakuri FOUHJT FOR said dictator

[undone iris]

Doesn't matter how he does it. My point is that the crews will be one. In fact I could see the BM crew splitting between prospero and katakuri

[obtuse gazelle]

Lmao Kata worships BM

[polar bison]

and then all but asked Luffy to come back and defeat her LMFAO

[ember trench]

No he didn’t

[ancient vault]

Yes that could happen but im just curious why you think her "resources" wouldnt just leave

[undone iris]

Kata loves bm

[obtuse gazelle]

He asked him if he’s gonna come back to defeat her so they spar again

[polar bison]

kata hates bm 100%, because he loves his family. and bm is a threat to his family

[undone iris]

If the crew split then some of the resources split. But Brule is the one that let's them get where they want when they want to be there

[ember trench]

Reread WCI

[undone iris]

And Brule would go with katakuri

[ember trench]

Big Mom IS his family. He went pale when he saw a future that potentially lead to her death.

[obtuse gazelle]

I don’t think we read the same manga

[ancient vault]

they dont split. They just leave and dont give anymore

[ember trench]

They’ll probably just follow Katakuri since he’s the strongest unless Perospero has some followers

[ancient vault]

Im pretty sure that was mentioned in WCI that shes the sole reason why this system is working

[undone iris]

Lol the BM crew would def split 50 50 if kata and prospero feuded

[ancient vault]

or they go to the next yonko because kata is nowhere near BMs level

[ember trench]

Don’t need to be necessarily

[ancient vault]

im talking about her ressources not just her crew

[fallow knot]

Then perospero will join blackbeard sure

[undone iris]

Perospero is the oldest kata is the strongest

[ember trench]

They’ll rule themselves. Even without big mom they have an entire country

[polar bison]

https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece-Digital-Colored-Comics/0896-013.png

[ancient vault]

oh oh ik where this is going

[ember trench]

Yeah he’s not asking Luffy to do anything there lol

[obtuse gazelle]

Yeah he’s making sure Luffy comes back so they can fight again

[polar bison]

"he goes pale when he sees bm threatened"
luffy literally promises to beat her
he grins and says he can't wait basically

[undone iris]

It's funny how much luffy would destroy katakuri now

[ember trench]

All he did was ask if he would be back to fight Big Mom one day

[polar bison]

dude he smiles and is like "damn that is literally going to happen"

[ember trench]

I think he’s just amused by Luffy’s vision

[undone iris]

Yea, you're reaching

[polar bison]

ahead of his family, the one thing he cares about?

[ember trench]

He doesn’t want his mom to be taken out

[obtuse gazelle]

Anime made it clearer actually, he just wants to defeat Luffy in a fight without compromises

[polar bison]

ok disingenuous argument but whatever

[ember trench]

If he did he wouldn’t have fought Luffy or protected her during the tea party

Big Mom is his family

Most of the kids love Big Mom

[polar bison]

????? i mean that ignores the entire point of BM

[undone iris]

Even lola loves big mom. She has no idea big mom is as mad as she is about her decision to leave, thsts why she gave the virve card

[ember trench]

I do not even know what you’re saying anymore...

[ember trench]

That Katakuri is loyal to his mother and crew is just not up for debate

[polar bison]

Katakuri is loyal to BM because no one and nothing can stop BM, and he wants to protect his family

[ember trench]

He’s loyal to her because she is his mother

[polar bison]

the moment he believes someone can actually beat her, he encourages it with a grin on his face

[obtuse gazelle]

His family IS big mom

[ember trench]

He doesn’t encourage Luffy. Luffy doesn’t need encouragement. He knows Luffy will go for his mom one day and won’t stop.

If he wasn’t loyal to big mom he would have just let Bege assassinate her

[polar bison]

ok personally, as someone who lvoes their mother, if a guy told me he was gonna come back to my home and kill her i wouldn't say "damn that's definitely gonna happen hahahaha im gonna fall and let u go now bye"

this is apparently just a difference in opinion between me and the rest of this chat. and im ok with that.

[ember trench]

Luffy didn’t say he would kill her. Just that he would come back to topple her.

[obtuse gazelle]

Did you read the whole fight ? That was basically ruined by that twat because she shot Luffy and Katakuri wanted a fair fight so he stabbed himself ??? That’s why he grinned when Luffy said that he’ll come back to take down BM, so Katakuri can square up with Luffy again but in a fair fight and try to defeat him

[polar bison]

killing is implied in pirate defeats

[ember trench]

Not really

[polar bison]

unless ur luffy but especially if ur bm as the person being defeated, because otherwise she would simply come back

[ember trench]

But anyway it’s just not correct

[polar bison]

i mean there's no actual panel showing katakuri having concern or care for BM as a person, rather than what she represents as the thing that keeps their pirate crew/family/way of life running

[ember trench]

Everything about Katakuri in WCI shows him as loyal to Big Mom herself, he doesn’t do it out of fear he does it out of loyalty to her and his family

Yeah, except him growing pale during the tea party and running security

[polar bison]

he's loyal to his family... his family was being attacked.

BM being threatened threatens his family

[ember trench]

...

[polar bison]

if bm dies the bm pirates are fucked

unless it's luffy beating her because luffy is built different

[ember trench]

You’re not making any sense

[polar bison]

maybe fair

idt it makes any sense for katakuri to encourage BM being defeated if he actually cares about her but like

i also just think it makes more sense to judge a character when they're clearly being more honest to themselves, and katakuri encouraging BM's downfall was far more him being honest to himself than he was when Bege said he went pale at a possible future

[zinc iris]

I'm confident Katakuri would pick his siblings over BM

while others like Oven are more loyal to BM

[tidal musk]

This is convenient to see first in the morning. I was just thinking about katakuri

Katakuris apparent absence from big moms ship in this arc feels like it was done on purpose

[vestal bone]

Hes prob on defense for the territory I imagine

[tidal musk]

I guess but it seems weird because hes the most notable member of her crew. If odas showing her main children in this arc it seems funny to leave him out. Theres not even a mention of him

[grizzled fog]

They did mention him

[drifting cape]

I believe next chapter will be end of Act 3

[ancient vault]

well he just got his time to shine the arc before and oda couldnt expand on smoothie or the others

next chapter is sanjis moment

[drifting cape]

The setups are almost done, we find out a potential temporary alliance with Big Mom, ends act 3, we find more about shanks, blackbeard, Sabo, Revolutionary army

[last halo]

It won't

[drifting cape]

👁

[tidal musk]

I mean wont act 3 be the end of the wano arc or should we expect an act 4? Theres still a lot to wrap up in onigashima

I would guess that we have at least another 15 chapters until everything on onigashima is dealt with and another 5-10 after that before they leave wano.

[jade palm]

there might be 5

the fifth about post-wano world, but that might be some miniarc

[neat estuary]

Hey

Anyone here?

[fallow knot]

I don't think after wano there will be any yonko system.

[neat estuary]

What's after wano? Elbaf??

[wicked grove]

We don’t know

[fallow knot]

Not so soon I guess. They can put a filler arc

[fallow knot]

Wano is already intense one and a long too. So they can put a filler arc to take some rest and chill

[neat estuary]

I see

[fallow knot]

It's already revealed. Who he is

[weak arrow]

Hiyori has the same thing

[tired osprey]

shape matches Toki better

it becomes thicker at the end

while its the opposite for hiyori

[weak arrow]

Oli, im gonna need you to post this big theory you're working on b4 i try arguing with you about this

[tired osprey]

gonna need to trim down some headcanon from it

or you'll rip me a new asshole

[weak arrow]

Juba says you gave him a sneak peak and he said it seemed well done so I'm eagerly awaiting

[tired osprey]

juba is too nice

whats wrong with you in the staff, too extreme on both ways

[weak arrow]

I mean, you and him convinced me of the hitetsu sukiyaki thing so

We shall see

[tired osprey]

didnt know that, but tbh, yeah you wont like it i can already tell

most people wont believe it, but that's ok

[weak arrow]

I mean,

Do I think Toki is alive? No.
Do I want or think tama will be nakama? No

but we shall see i suppose

[tired osprey]

yeah

[weak arrow]

Although people were using this color spread to hint at 12 nakama. With Brook's hat having the #9 as he was the 9th member to join the crew (Thus establishing the symbolism) and his pants having 11/12 on it to maybe represent getting 2 more crewmembers. I do think Yamato would be one of them but I do think Carrot is the more likely option after her

[queen gust]

why not both?

:^)

[neat estuary]

Who's gonna be shogun?

[tired osprey]

11 and a half, meaning 11 strawhats, and the half is represented by Vivi imo, her number being squeezed in between sanji and chopper, 5.5 makes me think of her as half a strawhat lol

[neat estuary]

After everything

[fallow knot]

The last number is not clear. We can't assume it to 12

[neat estuary]

Probably tama

[tired osprey]

4,6,8 and 9 arent clear either lol

[fallow knot]

Vivi going to be possesed by imu

[fallow knot]

9 is already on his hat

[weak arrow]

I mean, just look at his pants....

[fallow knot]

Yes 11 starwhat after wano for sure

[weak arrow]

You can literally go down his lower leg and count 7,8 9, 10 without any difficulty

[kind gate]

yes

[lucid viper]

I'm so sorry if anyone hasn't read the new chapter but I had to post this. Tama has claws???

[tired osprey]

her fingers are digging into Komachiyos fur

[lucid viper]

Dude no way oda would zoom in for no reason. Those don't look like normal fingers

And komachiyo reacting very heavily to her digging in?? I think we're gonna see something more from tama soon

[weak arrow]

It's to show that she's being anxious

[lucid viper]

Kibi dango awakened 😂

[neat estuary]

Tama for shogun, huh?

[lucid viper]

Sheeeeesh I'm down for that

[formal quest]

Hiyori for Shogun

[wind marten]

Yamoto for shogun

[kindred summit]

otama yonko lvl

[zinc iris]

hiyori shogun, momo goes to zunesha with yamato, tama becomes the new yonko of the beast pirates

[tired osprey]

tama becomes the new yonko of the beast piarates
LOL thought u were about to say something else

[zinc iris]

kurozumi?

[tired osprey]

strawhat

[tidal musk]

I wish they added more straw hats earlier on in the new world. It feels so late to add new members

[weary cliff]

So much time playing will they won't they with Jimbei

[tidal musk]

Like chopper to brook was pretty spread out through the grand line. They shouldve followed a similiar pattern in the new world

And when I say grand line I mean the part before the new world I have no idea what its independently called

[zinc iris]

Paradise

[tidal musk]

Oh yeah thanks

[hollow grotto]

my eyes hurt, I've been writing a theory draft for 4 hours

[manic relic]

I dont agree. People that are NOW stronger than Katakuri:

1. Shanks
2. Kaido
3. Big Mom
4. Blackbeard
5. Kizaru
6. Aokiji
7. Akainu
8. Garp
9. Dragon
10. Rayleigh
11. Luffy (Luffy rooftop wano)
12. Greenbull
13. And i think katakuri is not strongest 1st commander

[sonic plaza]

garp and rayleigh should not be included as they are retired and not currently fighting and involved in world affairs. Also, Dragon + Greenbull should not be on the list, cause we dont know their powers
Also, for admirals, it is Akainu > Aokiji > Kizaru

[visual merlin]

Greenbull's an admiral, can assume he's around as strong as the others, and Dragon is at least stronger than sabo

[manic relic]

My list want even ranked lol. And we dont need to see Greenbull powers to know that Admiral > Katakuri

[sonic plaza]

katakuri is so underrated, it is not funny. The only way to beat him is with advanced coc, stronger CoO, or immense speed (like Luffy)

[manic relic]

And i forgot mihawk and fujitora

[pure raven]

OR WATER

[sonic plaza]

he could dodge water easily

[visual merlin]

Shanks, Kaido, Big mom, Blackbeard, Akainu, Aokiji, Kizaru, Mihawk, Fujitora, Greenbull, Luffy, Dragon, and then a few more characters that could be stronger than kata such as Marco, Benn beckman, etc

he's definitely not "easily top 10"

[manic relic]

Yes indeed and we saw that sabo was pretty strong in Dressrosa. Dragon > Sabo

[pure raven]

Wait this is manga theories?

[weak arrow]

Idc about ranking people right now, but I will say that Garp is going to be active in the final war and it's be odd to think he wouldn't

[manic relic]

And we know that greenbull + fuji won sabo and the other 3 rev army commanders

[visual merlin]

Im sure Kata's one of the 20 strongest people alive though

[manic relic]

I think the same

[manic relic]

Top 20 yes

[supple nimbus]

Power scaling lol

[weak arrow]

Theorizing how strong people are is allowed, although not really the intention of the channel. As long as everyone's being serious in their thoughts.

[manic relic]

Then we should add #powerscaling

[kind gate]

sorry is this a list

[ancient vault]

carrot goes back to eat grass

[manic relic]

What?

[kind gate]

why is kizaru above aokiji and akainu

[manic relic]

Lol its not ranked

[ancient vault]

just characters stronger than kata folarin

[manic relic]

Random order

[kind gate]

ohh I was genuinely worried for your mental health

[ancient vault]

lmao

[kind gate]

all that 'sP3ed 0f L1ght' nonsense

[zinc iris]

chewing on luffy's neck

[patent summit]

As far as 1st commanders go. Katakuri is probably the strongest after Marco and beckmann

[visual merlin]

considering there's only two other "1st commanders"

that's kinda meh

[patent summit]

I see sabo as a 1st commander as well

[visual merlin]

Surprising you think sabo is weaker, though that still only makes Kata 3 out of 6, but yea I guess that's better than 3 out of 5

[gloomy canyon]

Objectiveness incoming:
Beckman > Marco > Sabo > Katakuri > King > whoever you want to say for BB's commander

[kind gate]

I lowkey think in a fight sabo and marco might be equal

[visual merlin]

Beckman > Sabo > Katakuri > Marco > King > Shiryuu
You can trust me because I am right

[kind gate]

damn a former yonko candidate under kata?

[gloomy canyon]

idk about Kata being stronger than Marco but who knows

[visual merlin]

yes folarin, Im sure Kata would be a yonko candidate too if he had the rest of the crew with him

[kind gate]

thats true