manga-theories

[ancient vault]

If zoro can transform/create visions by will cant sanji transform too through his emotions? I mean we got to see it a bit through hell memories right?

He could transform into something this arc and I could see Queen or King triggering the anger needed in him

Sanji turns into a devil/into lucifer

[kind gate]

Sanji hell memories

[copper frost]

hell memories has to be related to his will too

[zinc iris]

Fire as friction

[copper frost]

diable jambe i can see an explanation, how do we explain hell memories

[ancient vault]

Emotions and will

[copper frost]

exactly, it has to be related to his will which in extension is his haki

[ancient vault]

But it only gets activated when hes super angry

[copper frost]

we know how strong of an observation user he is already, maybe a CoA showcase and i wont even be surprised if oda reveals sanji to have coc or if he does it further down the story

[ancient vault]

Regarding this. Queen would be pretty easy. Hes using technology to torture the weak and unfortunate, his possible relation to vinsmoke

[copper frost]

king too, a gimp and a freak

[ancient vault]

Didnt Sanji care about Ebisu town?

Maybe it was queen who poisoned the river

[copper frost]

he did, he cared about toko and yasuie, ebisu and most prominently the scabbards

[ancient vault]

O toko :o

[copper frost]

i'd say that after luffy he has the most connection to the scabbards and momo

[ancient vault]

Oh yeah I think so too

But what could sanji transform into?

I really only see the lucifer inspiration/parallel

[copper frost]

transform i dont know, he could invoke hell memories as well his innate will

[ancient vault]

But I think he will go beyond hell memories

[copper frost]

indeed, he will go beyond his limits too, par for course

[ancient vault]

That would fit our edgy lord

[pure raven]

Sanji is so kind he became the devil himself to protect the innocent

[ancient vault]

In before sanji turns into this

[zinc iris]

more friction

[tired osprey]

Sanji will eat Onigashima fried Marco confirmed.
No but really... why did you stoop so low vegapank
These kind of “leaks” comes every year or so and they have always been fake and with a questionable source

[pure raven]

@acoustic helm Just so you know, that’s not a real leak. That has been circulating for 3 years and it’s just a mindless theory with no real source or basis to it, so I’ll delete because of how misleading it is.

[chilly helm]

I think there might be a reason "Only the a few of the strongest" can use Advanced CoC, because I was thinking about why White beard didn't use it, though it could be because of how long one piece is

In Marineford I mean

[dusty galleon]

Probably too sick to use it

[hidden prism]

I think there is something very special we don't know yet about the gomu gomu no mi. I don't think Shanks was carrying that DF around specifically just by random chance

[blissful lion]

Zeus will ask for more fire to eat from big mom so big mom will think of marco cuz hes legit a phoneix so shell do the unexpected and go down which will leave kid and killer chasing her and big mom changing the tides at the bottom, even if luffy wins the fight at the bottom is the one that determines who will win because if the sacabbards, marco and all others are beat till dead then its pretty much a loss which will leave law maybe zoro kid n killer have the responsibilty of stopping big mom before going down just a random thought

[lean spade]

*Prometheus, you mean?

[blissful lion]

yes i can be dumb sometimes n im really sleepy cuz its kinda late where i live

[weary cliff]

It would be interesting. The simple solution is that Prometheus was asking Mama to make a replacement for Zeus, and that is why we saw Kid and Killer notice the clouds were churning

[fathom matrix]

I love how Zoro keeps going "conquerors? The hell you talking about?"

It kinda makes sense caus ehe strives to be the best swordsman in the world AND he's Luffy's first mate

[obtuse gazelle]

Do you guys really think BM would be that fast to form another cloud with a soul ... as powerful (or even more) than Zeus ? When she’s obviously running out of souls or has a few left in her to fight with Kaido

[fathom matrix]

I like the think Prometheus might ask BM to off Zues and give his soul to him for more power

Cause yeah, she'll lose lightning, but she's pretty efficient with fire, and can still ride of prometheus.

[dusky notch]

True, and lightning doesn't work on luffy anyway

[fathom matrix]

against kid and killer, it's a death sentence

cause they're literally covered in metal

[zinc iris]

we're better off if it's just random

[hidden prism]

I wouldn't count on it

[weary cliff]

It goes both ways. Like how Kid has Zeus trapped in a faraday cage where he cant do anything at all

[zinc iris]

so is the gomu gomu special? if so how?
so far it's just an average paramecia that luffy has used intelligently and most of his power comes from actual physical improvements a normal fighter in that would train towards too

[hidden prism]

I agree, in fact - I believe Luffy's development in using non-DF haki based strength is going to be instrumental in his ultimately overcoming Teach who is positioning himself as the DF demigod

however, I think the Gomu Gomu no mi being in shanks possession was not random chance, and that there are special elements to it that we don't understand yet

[crude tiger]

I can see the Strawhats having tough battles against their opponents , and that Franky and Robin will somehow unlock haki during their fights

[weary cliff]

It could always be retconned that way (and I hope it isn't) but as it stands it just seems like a regular piece of treasure that they came across in East Blue.

All we really know is that the red hair pirates won it from a different ship as plunder. It could be that Shanks had stuck around for a year because he specifically wanted to find the gomu gomu no mi. But he also was in no hurry to move on to the next stage of his voyage after getting it

[acoustic helm]

thanks man, i didn't know about that.

[ancient vault]

they just stole it from another pirate ship. Infact lucky rou did

[sacred hawk]

So this chapter semi-confirms a theory I had

Basically the one who would open the original scar won't be Zoro or Luffy, but the Scabbards

[zinc iris]

[verbal vector]

Any Sanji theories so far?

[zinc iris]

i don't get what part of this chapter does that

[sacred hawk]

When they attacked Kaido, the scabbards did residual damage that will cause the scar to open

[sacred hawk]

Because Zoro left a new scar, rather than opening up the old one. Meaning that if the original scar is going to be opened, someone else will do it

[zinc iris]

ok but like could be luffy, he has the biggest oden energy among the living

[sacred hawk]

Sure, but I think it would be more poetic if it was because of the scabbards attack. It would be like Yuba's water, where the love and loyalty of the citizens to the country what what ultimately made it possible for Luffy to win

[weak arrow]

@stone veldt

[ancient vault]

Sanji might get a transformation soon through his emotions

[zealous fable]

Is there any theories relating to Imu being connected with Mihawk?

[weak arrow]

None that don't involve trolling

[sacred hawk]

I unironically believe Luffy will get a 5 Billion berry bounty after Wano

[pure raven]

Because if he beats a kaido his bounty will be higher than him
Idk thats the most logica answer for luffy getting a 5 billion bounty i can think of

[sacred hawk]

Not just that

Even if Luffy beats Kaido with help, there will be a few factors setting him apart from the other supernovas

[pure raven]

Yeah but that's what i can think of

But personally i dont think his bounty will be 5 billion yet

[sleek patrol]

at this point, I feel that law is the only one that will kill kaido

like hell deliver the final blow

[ancient vault]

Law doesnt kill ppl

[sacred hawk]

Firstly, the straw hats are the ones fighting against Kaido's executives. If they win and get recognition for it, then it means that Luffy now commands a crew capable of competing with the top brass of a Yonko

[pure raven]

Yeah same but i was saying how 5 billion may be possible

[sleek patrol]

law killed like 1000 pirates to be a warlord

[weary cliff]

Luffy will probably end up with 5.6 bil after LT. If he massively jumps in bounty now, that would have him only increase a tiny bit in the rest of the arcs

[ancient vault]

he took their hearts. He didnt kill them. Law himself stated this arc that he doesnt like killing ppl. Hes a doctor in the first place

[sacred hawk]

Secondly, he has Nico Robin's allegiance, as well as three of the four road poneglyphs, making it no exaggeration to call Luffy the closest man to claiming One Piece

[wild veldt]

Law basically killed all those pirates

What do you think happened to all the hearts he handed over

[pure raven]

Probably chopped up

[ancient vault]

He didnt murder them
Sure the marines killed them but they didnt die through his hands

[sacred hawk]

And thirdly, unlike with Kaido and Big Mom, Luffy isn't bound by the road poneglyph stalemate. Meaning that if the marines leave Luffy to his own devices for much longer, there is a very real possibility that he will emerge as the next pirate King

So it's not just a matter of power level. Luffy commands a force that can give any Yonko crew a run for their money, and can very viably reach the One Piece. He's a top priority at this point

Both surpass 1B

[wild veldt]

Neither surpass 1B

They can surpass 1B next arc

[grizzled fog]

I think they’ll either be super close to a bil or just barely above

I can’t see either going above 1.1 bil tho, that’s the max

600 mil minimum too

[wild veldt]

600 to 800

[pure raven]

I think zoro will have a bounty of around 800 million

[wild veldt]

They can go there

[grizzled fog]

Anywhere from 650-1.1 bil for zosan is my guess

600-800 for jinbe

[sacred hawk]

I still think Zoro and Sanji will face King and Queen. And given that we're entering 1B as the new benchmark bounty for fearsome fighters, I think they'll both jump that high by the end of Wano

The way I see it: Anyone who beats a commander gets at least 1B, and anyone who beats a Tobiroppo gets at least 300M

[ancient vault]

I dont think Zoro and Sanji will team up. At least not vs King

[pure raven]

Zoro may get a 1b+ bounty but i dont think sanji will get a 1b+ bounty after wano

[nimble hinge]

Depending on who sanji fights I think he'll be in the 700 to 900 range

Zoro 1B to 1.2B range

[ancient vault]

Doubt zoro is ever tagteaming another swordman. Unless King is not really a swordsman

[grizzled fog]

Even if they team up I don’t think that’s remotely feasible. Sanji can’t take both calamities and zoro is in no condition to take one on himself

[grizzled fog]

Queen also has swords tbf

[sacred hawk]

Sanji won't be taking both

[ancient vault]

But he doesnt seem like a "swordsman". Hes like BM. Hes more of a "cyborg fighter".
Im just making up categories but I think u know what I mean

[nimble hinge]

Lowest crew bounty will be 300M

Those are my expectations

[grizzled fog]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/164971940648321024/829118943234359296/image0.jpg

Seems to have used it against drake even

[sacred hawk]

And besides, given that the tobiroppo will probably go down before the calamities do, Zoro will have enough time to heal to a somewhat decent shape.

[ancient vault]

Obviously
Big Mom also uses a sword vs Kaido. Do you seriously think shes a swordsman tho?

[grizzled fog]

Um. Hes not Marco. He doesn’t have super healing powers man

[sacred hawk]

Even Usopp had his skull cracked and he was up and about in a few chapters

[nimble hinge]

3 of the best known doctors in the series are right there. I doubt Zoro is out.

[ancient vault]

Hiyori

[grizzled fog]

No, but whats your criteria for that? Not sure king is one either. Is it because he has a katana?

Marco’s flames don’t work as well on others and he’s running out of flames anyway, Hiyori has bandaids, chopper shouldn’t be able to put zoro in condition for a calamity either lol, even assuming he’s no longer occupied with queen. And miyagi and Tristan can’t do any more than chopper

It’s great that there’s some crazy good doctors here but the only one with actual regeneration powers is Marco and I already explained why he won’t be able to put zoro into shape

[ancient vault]

Because we havent seen a lot from him yet. Thats why I said:

Unless King is not really a swordsman
My criteria is that you mainly use your sword and haki infused sword attacks to fight. But from what we've seen King has not once drawn his sword except for against Marco so he might really not be a "swordsman"

[nimble hinge]

The calamities themselves have been getting battered by Marco. He's been launching them around. It's not going to be a fight where either party is healthy

[ancient vault]

Hiyori has bandaids
She healed the scabbards

[grizzled fog]

Marco landed a couple hits. But those are ancient zoans, their whole schtick is taking a beating lol. I don’t think they are badly injured

[nimble hinge]

Yeah, I think the healing issue isn't much of an issue. If Oda wants x to fight y, he'll heal them up enough

[grizzled fog]

I think it’s a bit ridiculous for zoro to take on a calamity in anything less than full health anyway

Let alone when he’s barely able to walk

[nimble hinge]

A couple hits that's **we've seen **. These fights are still going on while we watch the rooftop. And those brief glimpses are to show how the fights are going

[ancient vault]

Barely able to breath*

[grizzled fog]

There isn’t any indication that they’re badly damaged

I don’t think Marco has done enough damage to either to come close to putting them in a comparable condition to zoro

[nimble hinge]

I don't think we've even seen king after the knee. We saw him after one attack. And that's it.

And considering he's entirely covered, it's hard to gauge how much damage he's taken.

[ancient vault]

We did

[grizzled fog]

I’d think his suit would be torn then no?

[nimble hinge]

I'm not expecting him to be severely injured. But if Oda wants Zoro to fight a calamity, it'll happen.

[ancient vault]

King after the knee

[nimble hinge]

Clothes are rarely torn in the series

[grizzled fog]

Oda will make whatever he wants happen, I’m talking about what makes sense

And zoro fighting a calamity doesn’t make sense to me no matter how you spin it

I think zoro will find orochi with Hiyori. That’s it

[ancient vault]

Queen was fine the next chapter after they got beat up

[weak arrow]

Zoro could fight Jack in his condition I guess, their conditions are actually comparable

[grizzled fog]

Don’t think so Adam , not even jack

[nimble hinge]

A few months ago, an island being lifted by clouds didn't make sense to me.

When it comes to abilities, anything is possible. I'm not ruling it out

[weak arrow]

especially if law ends up sending zoro to the same place he sent the scabbards, which makes sense

[grizzled fog]

Jack is rampaging around like nothing, zoro is in worse condition than a corpse.

I guess I could see law and zoro teaming up on jack maybe? With inu?

[weak arrow]

We're not trying to make jack lose in 5 seconds

[ancient vault]

yeah makes sense for hiyori to find him there again

[grizzled fog]

Although if jack has no haki law should make quick work of him lul

[main sigil]

Jack dies this way

[weak arrow]

I'd say the most logical place zoro would be sent is the same place the scabbards were. And obviously Law may or not come as well. And as we know, Jack and Inu are right there. So if Inu would sadly lose the fight, then yeah Jack is there for them.

[bitter lagoon]

I believe zoro will kill king

[main sigil]

I’d take Zoro beating Jack in their conditions.

Good matchup too

[nimble hinge]

I'm more curious to see who sanji fights. He doesn't really have an obvious enemy yet

[mild kite]

depends where he is going. I think he's going to the skull dome entrance where momo is

[nimble hinge]

And there's plenty of options to set him up against. At least from my perspective

[weak arrow]

Well it's really King or Queen imo, and it's definitely leaning more towards King I'd say considering we see Chopper can put up somewhat of a fight against Queen.

We'd get basically the floor + Chopper against Queen

[bitter lagoon]

Sanji might fight queen

[nimble hinge]

I don't think it's limited to just them. I can see him fighting multiple opponents as well.

[weak arrow]

So more a free for all? Like he switches between people just like marco's currently doing

[nimble hinge]

Something like that, yeah. Holding off several players.

[weak arrow]

That's fair at least

[calm jolt]

Law gonna die

[weak arrow]

Law's motive about learning about the D practically guaranteed that he's not gonna die this arc

[nimble hinge]

King, Queen, Perospero, Hawkins with buffed enemies. BM pirates. CP0. Lots of pieces Oda can choose to include.

[mild kite]

It's just not on-brand with what Oda does things. Sanji is going to get a 1 v 1 matchup with one of the calamities (imo King or Queen) that forces him to go all out.

sure he might fight considerably weaker opponents but he is going to get his own fight imo

[nimble hinge]

Has Sanji gotten a 1v1 in the new world? Not sure the on brand thing works.

[weak arrow]

Well he'd be extremely helpful against Perospero since his existence is a counter to his ability, so I'd rather Sanji sort of stay away to keep perospero from being a nonfactor. Sanji clashing against CP0 would be sort of cool though. Especially because they might want to kidnap Momo.

I mean if Bobbins or page one counts for you, then yes

if not, then no

[mild kite]

Yes, Sanji and Zoro haven't gotten their time to shine in terms of battle, but this is the stage where that happens finally.

[nimble hinge]

Don't think those are the kinds of 1v1s namz meant. So no

[mild kite]

or should happen

[weak arrow]

Well, Zoro did shine, so i wouldnt include him anymore

[nimble hinge]

You can shine in battle without getting a 1v1. As long as it's a difficult fight the same thing is accomplished

Zoro just got his shine and it wasn't a 1v1

So I really don't think the 1v1 rule is very strict

[weak arrow]

Nothing Zoro does for the rest of arc is going to top the attack he just did on Kaido. So if you want something even better from a later fight in Wano, you're only going to be disappointing yourself.

[mild kite]

Fair, we'll just wait and see. If Sanji doesnt go the 1 v 1 high diff match-up, who do you see him fighting?

[mild kite]

My prediction is that he fights Perospero, folds him, then has a fight with King

Would love him to have a clash with perospero as there is some narrative behind it

[weak arrow]

So you don't think Carrot will end up beating perospero?

[nimble hinge]

Any of the above I mentioned. I think testing his durability against someone notable that Hawkins buffs would be really interesting. Just struggling to think of the notable someone that can get the buff

[mild kite]

I think Carrot will finish him off. Makes more sense if she does. Sanji is just going to prevent whatever plan Perospero is doing and take him out temporarily

[nimble hinge]

Maybe buffed BM pirates that aren't smoothie? Hard to see that one coming together though

Buffed numbers?

[weak arrow]

Well the main flaw in that thought is thinking Hawkins will be against the alliance, so that won't happen either. But dw, you're idea about him fighting CP0 is still pretty good

[mild kite]

Yeah i see Hawkins switching sides eventually

[nimble hinge]

The Hawkins stuff is just me hoping he stays an enemy lol. It's the one thing I don't want happening in this arc since the moment it began.

[weak arrow]

You can hope but you know it's true

Law allowing Hawkins to remain in the fight against Kaido would be way too careless, and also him plotting with Hawkins for a few days actually works out since we have no idea what Law did for an entire week

[nimble hinge]

CP0 who have brought a new pacifista with them? That would be hype

I wonder if Hawkins has a healing ability. To revive the Novas

[zinc iris]

sanji vs perospero seems too easy

[ember trench]

Zoro ain’t done yet

[zinc iris]

too much elemental advantage

[pure raven]

perospero has food powers, it's not fair

[nimble hinge]

People are underestimating Perospero

[zinc iris]

it would be like post EL luffy vs Enel

[zinc iris]

I think you are underestimating how bad it is to pit the candyman against a dude that can catch fire at will

[weak arrow]

Back when the silhouette happened, I said it was Hawkins and it'd be cool if he was a doctor as well to be even more of a rival with Law. Hawkins could also just have a healing card I suppose.

[grizzled fog]

Sanji is literally a hard counter so....

[zinc iris]

and fire is perospero's biggest weakness

[grizzled fog]

Perospero is crazy strong, but considering the horrible matchup for him there, I could totally see Sanji making relatively quick work of him

[zinc iris]

it's not even that perospero isn't strong, is just the specific matchup that is too lopsided

[grizzled fog]

His candy is brittle to fire honestly, it almost melts too fast

[wild veldt]

A hot cup of tea > Pero's candy

[grizzled fog]

Oh yes lmao

[wild veldt]

Sanji's fire >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some hot tea

[grizzled fog]

Literally hot tea can fuck up his arm. Sanji even freed Germa just by standing on the table

[zinc iris]

luffy's red hawk nullified perospero's iron maiden without even touching, and a while earlier sanji with a diable jambe destroyed his candy restraints on the germa without even trying

it's the one thing that fucks perospero up

[grizzled fog]

Also kinda a bad weakness when you think about how many people can generate fire lol

[zinc iris]

well yes, we could even have a rematch wher carrot pulls an enel and uses electro to overheat shit

[mild kite]

And there is some narrative sense behind Sanji clashing with Perospero

[zinc iris]

yes but I think the matchup would be too low diff for having any catharsis

[grizzled fog]

I do like the idea of Sanji finding out about peros beating up carrot, using hell memories to fold him real quick, and then leaving peros for carrot to clean up later

[mild kite]

Yep. He will make a timely intervention between Marco and Perospero and take King imo. Carrot can then finish Perospero

[bitter lagoon]

There is going to be another marineford but this time with Sabo

[ember trench]

Nop

[bitter lagoon]

Luffy is going to save him and rescue him and fight Akainu

[zinc iris]

sounds too much of a rehash even with the change of actually saving sabo in the end

[bitter lagoon]

They’re going to Elbaf

[desert hatch]

ik people dont think bb has conquerors but i would like to point out he damaged shanks before and shanks says that his wound was aching the same way kaido says his was, and shanks stated that bb kept his power hidden the whole time and he didnt have a devil fruit then so what was shanks talking about?

[visual merlin]

I don't really know what you're getting at there, but I think a lot of people think BB has CoC, I do as well since he's an emperor and all

[boreal storm]

How do we know these two people are admiral lvl or admiral candidates

[weak arrow]

SBS

[boreal storm]

SBS?

[weak arrow]

Questions Oda answers in every volume

[boreal storm]

Oh

They must be strong we will probably see their strength in the final war.

[topaz knoll]

I think BB got CoC too. Remember he gave Shanks Left Eye a scar and he is a master haki himself. Basically, Shanks coated himself with CoC and somehow BB manage to damage him.

[grizzled fog]

We really don’t know if shanks coated himself in coc at all

That was years ago as well

[visual merlin]

many years ago, at least 13

[boreal storm]

The one piece games always show shanks with advanced coc

[desert hatch]

oh it seemed pretty controversial in other chats so i just wanted to see peoples thoughts

[visual merlin]

iirc they were initially fanmade, so I actually don't expect them to matter that much, but we may see them clash with someone strong

[worthy breach]

we dont know the exact time that shanks got scar, arent we

[boreal storm]

I’m going to assume he can use it

[topaz knoll]

Shanks Captain is Roger and the rightful owner of the Strawhat before Luffy. So Roger must trust Shanks strength and got the same fighting style with his Captain/idol

[visual merlin]

we know he had the scar 13 years ago, so it would have to be at least before then

[grizzled fog]

It is very likely shanks has advanced coc now yes

[dusky acorn]

We just know it was sometime between age 13 and 27 I believe

[desert hatch]

cuz he had it when he met luffy

[grizzled fog]

Not that you need advanced coc to hurt someone with it, that would be shit.

[visual merlin]

Roger gave him the hat when he was basically a kid, and we know shanks wasn't strong back then

[boreal storm]

I thought oda gave them the ideas.

[visual merlin]

Dunno, but either way I don't expect them to get very much screentime, but who knows

[boreal storm]

Nvm I thought you replied to the video game sentence.

[grizzled fog]

I don’t think the video games should be taken as remotely accurate or reliable sources of info

[boreal storm]

They have foreshadowed a lot of shit 🥴

[desert hatch]

yea oda might be givin them the inside scoop

[topaz knoll]

Luffy's age right now is 19 and knew how to coat himself with Advance CoC. Blackbeard gave that scar to Shanks 12 years ago after he met luffy. So Basically Shanks already knew how to use it. He's in the Pirate King ships after all.

[visual merlin]

Im pretty sure that's not how that works but alright

[desert hatch]

before he met luffy right?

[visual merlin]

in any case, you don't need advanced CoC to hurt someone with it, we already saw the novas damaging kaido who has it

[topaz knoll]

Hurt yes, but give him a scar, no.

[kind gate]

I don't think you need advanced CoC to give someone a scar

[visual merlin]

if they're able to physically damage him that means they could also scar him with the right amount of power

same would go for shanks

[topaz knoll]

Advance CoC I guess will give you a tough skin and Only with Conquerors Haki can damage you. That's why Kaido's angry that Zoro also got CoC when he used Ashura.

[visual merlin]

how come a seaking ate Shanks' arm off then

[topaz knoll]

I guess Oden got Advance CoC too but didn't know it himself like Zoro. That's why Oden can sustain hours of boiling in hot oil because he coated himself with CoC.

[visual merlin]

yea but

How did a seaking bite shanks' arm who you're saying by that point had advanced CoC

[topaz knoll]

Shanks did that because he bet on Luffy to be the next Pirate King because he said to Rayleigh that he met a child the same dream as Roger. basically, Shanks arm is a bet.

[boreal storm]

So did oden use ryou or advanced conquerors to injure kaido?

[visual merlin]

And how did this occur

[craggy pumice]

man thats such a cool panel

[visual merlin]

I don't think zoro has advanced CoC even now, but even if we say he does, he didn't have it here, so how would you explain this @topaz knoll

[sand sail]

Shanks didn't do it because he bet on Luffy

Shanks did it because his friend was about to die

[visual merlin]

Yea, asura looks super cool too, zoro's moves in general are pretty epic

[sand sail]

He doesn't regret it because Luffy was worth the bet

[boreal storm]

He doesn’t have advanced conquerors, what are you saying?

[visual merlin]

King Yonko Beats thinks he does, so Im letting him have that for the sake of discussion

[topaz knoll]

I read some theories that you can only make a Blackblade by infusing your Advance CoC a countless times during battles. This is some interesting topic.

[boreal storm]

Kaido thinks he has conquerors that does not mean he used advanced conquerors.

[topaz knoll]

Wrong reply lmao

[visual merlin]

josh did you carefully read what I said

[visual merlin]

If he had used CoC here, Kaido would have commented on it here

So we know he didn't, yet he cuts kaido

What is the explanation for that

oh wait why am I even using Zoro, the scabbards cut kaido too lol

[topaz knoll]

I have also an idea that Kozuki Family made the Red Poneglyph by using Advance CoC and coated the stone.

[grizzled fog]

Avoiding the question 🧐

[visual merlin]

I see, currently Im just wondering what your explanation would be for zoro cutting kaido before he got CoC, as well as all the scabbards cutting kaido without ever using CoC?

[junior shoal]

You have too many ideas without anything to back them up

[topaz knoll]

That's why it's an "idea" and not a theory

[sacred hawk]

I think Kaido of all people would recognize when someone's using CoC

[topaz knoll]

Scabbards can cut Kaido but can't deal a permanent scars like Oden. That's why when Zoro used Ashura he finally give kaido a permanent scar. Also remember the samurai knew how to used Ryuo and you can damage someone from the inside that's why Kaido's spitting blood.

[visual merlin]

If they can do physical damage, wouldn't you think with enough of that power they could cut deep enough to scar him?

[boreal storm]

What about oden he used ryuo

[visual merlin]

They were able to pierce and slash him at will, all they'd theoretically need to scar him is more force behind those or stronger armament

[topaz knoll]

Oden might used Ryuo and Coated it with Advance CoC like what luffy did on chapter 1010

[visual merlin]

Not advanced conquerors haki

[desert hatch]

prolly did what zoro did

[boreal storm]

So are you saying zoro used advanced conquerors when he used asura

[topaz knoll]

If you remember at Whole Cake Island, Big Mom also got a tough skin and can't be penetrated by sword but her skin color is noy black. So she prolly used Advance CoC

[topaz knoll]

That's why Kaido is angry because Zoro got it too.

[boreal storm]

Kaido was angry Kidd and Luffy had conquerors

[topaz knoll]

Read chapter 1010 when Zoro used Ashura

[boreal storm]

Zoro infused conquerors and he didn’t used advanced conquerors

I’m pretty sure kaido was not talking about zoro here

[sand sail]

We've really got to stop saying people who can't be hurt are just coating themselves in conqueror's, Big Mom was just born a freak

[visual merlin]

The scabbards can do things like this, strong enough armament or whatever would probably allow someone to scar kaido

[topaz knoll]

Yes, but she can be damage when she got the hungry fangs.

[desert hatch]

nah big moms invincibility could be conquerors, clearly related to her state of mind

[sand sail]

Yeah, your skin becomes thinner and your bones become brittle when you're starving

That makes sense

[boreal storm]

It’s not conquerors she’s just a freak

[desert hatch]

yea probably, we dont know yet

[weak arrow]

He's talking about how when big mom started screaming, she was no longer protected

not back when she was hungry

[sand sail]

Yeh, she was still able to use conqueror's there

And it doesn't seem like she's weak any other time she uses it

[weak arrow]

Yeah but she's not in her right state of mind thus no longer has the conqueror's coating. It makes sense.

[boreal storm]

Do you think she’s coating herself on purpose

[sand sail]

But if it's an entirely unconscious thing in the first place, it shouldn't matter what state of mind she's in

In fact, when she's not in her right state of mind later

She's still plenty invulnerable

[topaz knoll]

After reading this Chapter 1010 I prolly think Kozuki used Advance CoC to create Red Poneglyph and Oden can use it but didn't know it himself like Zoro.

[sand sail]

It was when she was sad in particular about Caramel that she lost her defense for a split second

You're probably right about that

[weak arrow]

Her knees became scratched just from falling when her mind broke, hence giving the audience an indicator that she's vulnerable. It would make sense that her mind breaking stops her from coating herself than being some weird biological thing

[visual merlin]

That would require all those Kozukis having Conquerors haki, which is a bit hard to believe, but if you are fine with that then sure

[sand sail]

And yet when her mind broke shortly after, that was not the case

[weak arrow]

Actually we dont know because she never got hit

[sand sail]

Yes she did

Repeatedly

[topaz knoll]

Only 4 Red Poneglyph existed and 1 man probably can do the Job.

[weak arrow]

When did she get hit

[sand sail]

I'm talking about when she's chasing the Strawhats and she's insane in her hunger frenzy

[weak arrow]

im not talking about that

[sand sail]

Yeah, I am

i'm saying when she was almost completely out of her mind right there, her durability was just fine

And she was deranged to the point where her kids had no idea what could possibly happen, it was worse than even the picture breaking

[topaz knoll]

Roger and Oden can also hear the Voice of all things that's why Kozuki Clan is special.

[sand sail]

Her homies were even going crazy

[weak arrow]

She also used armament in that state, so it's clear she can use haki while in that form. However, in the mind-break moment, she was able to get injured, and thus it being a conqueror's coating makes more sense than anything else.

[sand sail]

I don't believe she used armament in that form

[weak arrow]

She uses it at the beginning when she's still manhandling opera

[sand sail]

Does she? I only recall her using it on Luffy, I'll have to look back at it

[visual merlin]

several generations of them were capable of it, even if they didn't actually write these poneglyphs

[topaz knoll]

They don't give Kaido a Scar. You can easily see that when Supernovas fight Kaido.

[sand sail]

Oh, then yeh, she can use it while in that form. But if it's an unconscious coating, it shouldn't matter what her state of mind is for it

[visual merlin]

Again, if they're capable of this with just armament, strong enough armament with enough force should also be enough to scar him

[sand sail]

She's had it since she was born

[grizzled fog]

They can pierce his skin though, doesn’t make sense for them to be able to harm him but not leave a scar if they don’t have advanced coc

[visual merlin]

So long as we know they can hurt him that way, like physically damage his body, it is possible to scar him

[sand sail]

But further than that, she was worse off in that than she was when the picture broke

To the point of it being an entirely new state to even the crew at some point

If she can use haki there, I can't see why it would break there but she could still use conqueror's unconsciously

[weak arrow]

I completely disagree but its really impossible to tell

[boreal storm]

The asura attack wasn’t advanced conquerors

[grizzled fog]

Josh, read before you speak please

[boreal storm]

It was just normal conquerors

[grizzled fog]

No where did I even imply that it was advanced

[visual merlin]

josh, have you read our messages carefully?

Vem didn't imply it was advanced, and I already clarified that Im only agreeing to it for the sake of furthering the discussion

[topaz knoll]

Luffy knew how to used Advance CoC but not Zoro at the moment.

[boreal storm]

“Leave a scar if they don’t have advanced coc.”

[visual merlin]

@topaz knoll

[boreal storm]

Zoro left a scar

[grizzled fog]

Try some context josh

[visual merlin]

josh, just ignore the conversation please lol

[boreal storm]

[topaz knoll]

Kaido wanted to die but can't because of his Advance CoC. Lmao

[junior shoal]

he doesn't want to die in the sense of suicide but instead he wants to explore what can kill him

[topaz knoll]

Kaido's mythical devil fruit + Advance CoC sure makes his skin tougher than anybody else.

[visual merlin]

but can you respond to the stuff we're saying lol? You're saying they didn't scar him, but the fact that with just armament they can physically damage him like that means enough of it could scar him

[topaz knoll]

I don't really think advance armament haki can give Kaido a permanent scar. Remember that he is a Hybrid Mythical Dragon coated with Advance CoC.

[visual merlin]

This does not address what I said

If advanced armament can physically damage how it did, why would it be impossible for it to scar him with enough power behind it, or strong enough armament?

[sand sail]

Stop saying he's coated with advanced conqueror's

That's clearly not the case lmao

[grizzled fog]

If it can harm him at all, it should be able to scar him with enough power

[topaz knoll]

Theirs a limit of what Advance Armament/Ryuo can do to Kaido. That's why Scabbards said it's not enough and Luffy also said that on Chapter 1010.

[visual merlin]

There's a limit to what the scabbards can do, but they can damage him, there's no reason someone with strong enough armament and power would be incapable of scarring kaido

[sand sail]

They said it because they were too weak to pierce him

Basically what you're saying is Luffy's conqueror's haki and armament are stronger than Kaido's conqueror's haki and armament, I just can't see it

[radiant silo]

I THINk its strong enough to at least do some struggle battles with him

he does have the strongest conqueror haki out of his whole crew

[visual merlin]

that's pretty easy to accomplish when zoro is the only other one with CoC on his crew

[topaz knoll]

Yes, Luffy's will is stronger than Kaido. Everytime Luffy met someone he always said he gonna become the Pirate King and he always show that even when he was kid.

[radiant silo]

plus i doubt the rest of the crew have the traits of being a king

luffy zoro and maybe sanji have the king trait

[sturdy glen]

how badass would it be if someone from the strawhat crew dies (like ace)?

[radiant silo]

DONT

[sturdy glen]

most likely will be sanji

[radiant silo]

luffy would probably disband the crew and walk out into the sea depression

[grizzled fog]

Js this is a serious theories only channel

[sturdy glen]

next powerup is seeing someone die

[grizzled fog]

That’s not how it works in one piece

[sturdy glen]

fully unlock coc

[grizzled fog]

Did luffy get a powerup in MF when ace died?

Only character in the series that works like that is actually Sanji lol, with hell memories

[sturdy glen]

wasnt luffy using coc when ace died?

[radiant silo]

no his mind collapses

[ember trench]

He flew through fire with guts

[sturdy glen]

he used coc before ace died?

[grizzled fog]

Yes

[radiant silo]

yes

[grizzled fog]

Multiple times

[ember trench]

He got a friendship boost from Usopp in Enies Lobby

[grizzled fog]

no

[ember trench]

Yes

[topaz knoll]

What if Brook died and Trafalgar Law used his DF to him?

[grizzled fog]

That’s not what his fruit does

[topaz knoll]

[grizzled fog]

Law’s fruit doesn’t revive people

[topaz knoll]

It basically grant you with immortality, right?

[craggy pumice]

it gives you eternal youth

[grizzled fog]

All it does is stop your aging

[topaz knoll]

What if he used it to Brook?

[winter wave]

It propably needs a body with Flesh and Blood to do the "Operation". I don't see it being done to bones

Unless the operation is done to the "Soul"

[junior shoal]

brook he already dead

[pure raven]

Guys i think the fake oden might be catarina devon!

sam pose :)!

[grizzled fog]

Are you caught up? Assuming this is serious

[winter wave]

Probably not, since we already know the answer

[topaz knoll]

So basically it doesn't make sense that Law use his eternal youth operation when you can easily ask Jewelry Bonney to make you younger again.

[topaz knoll]

It's O-Tama's Tea pot.

[alpine hill]

But we do not actually know whether that change is at a cellular level or just in terms of appearance, but I actually agree with your point

[brisk mirage]

Where was it confirmed that it gives eternal youth and not general immortality? I ask so I can go look it up.

[grizzled fog]

I mean the name alone implies that does it not?

[lyric dust]

luffy = oden!! he did same pose!!

[pure raven]

woah i nevr thought of that

uy on to somtibung

[sage loom]

I think the end of one piece are luffy giving away his hat to someone else

[brisk mirage]

Not really at all. The name implies an operation, but not what the operation does.

[desert hatch]

perpetual youth

[brisk mirage]

In the manga it’s called the “Immortality Operation”

[desert hatch]

i think the official translation is perpetual youth operation

[brisk mirage]

It’s only known as perpetual youth in the Funimation subs

[desert hatch]

well i dont think its like ban's immortality from seven deadly sins if ur thinking about that, pretty sure just makes it so u cant die from age

[grizzled fog]

It’s called eternal youth officially yes

[desert hatch]

wonder who he'll use it on, low key hope its not luffy but one of teh other straw hats so they can live on and tell the story or something like that, although could be luffy considering the amount theyve mentioned him shortening his lifespan

[grizzled fog]

I don’t think he’ll use it on anyone

[desert hatch]

or that

but like why mention it otherwise? unless its just to foreshadow another character

[lusty token]

I wonder if it could be forced out of him

[grizzled fog]

I think the surgery could be relevant later, maybe if imu has received it. But law I’m sure won’t use it

[desert hatch]

or choppers doctor friend, shes old as fuck but still kickin

[lusty token]

I feel he probably does have a target on his back from the world government

But she’s still aging

[desert hatch]

maybe she just got it when she was older, def doesnt look older than 100

141 is pretty old for a human

[lusty token]

She could just be superhuman

I would be surprised if she had it but not disappointed

[shadow reef]

What if Law used his power to make Luffy immortal since he has ||at least half of his life slashed cause if incident at Impel Down and Marineford||

[grizzled fog]

At least half? Wayyyy less than that

[craggy pumice]

only 10 years

[pure raven]

It is not an immortality technique. It's eternal youth. There's a massive difference between the two.

[nimble hinge]

Out of curiousity, what is the difference?

[lusty token]

Young until death

No aging of body or mind

[nimble hinge]

Death by what exactly? Natural causes?

[lusty token]

I’m guessing

[weak arrow]

Immortal your body ages, eternal youth it doesnt. Also immortality is typically associated with being able to survive deadly attacks while eternal youth is not

[grizzled fog]

No death by old age, you can still die to external factors or disease

[nimble hinge]

Most works of fiction that I've read, treat both Immortality and Eternal Youth identically. Can't die of natural causes as you don't age. Body remains as it was at the time of obtaining that power, whether you were youthful or not.

Not sure there's really a distinction in how One Piece treats the two, or will treat the two either.

[exotic echo]

When I hear "Immortal" I think of both of those things. But when I hear "Eternal Youth" it sounds like you could still get your head cut off & die or whatever

[gloomy canyon]

Immortality in fiction can still slow aging

[exotic echo]

Who knows if there'd be a distinction, though

[weak arrow]

When a character gets their head chopped off in most series, and basically regenerate, or still live, or whatever, they'll say "I'm immortal." Eternal youth doesn't really apply to that.
and you've never read works where immortal people practically become skin and bones?

[gloomy canyon]

Like the elves in lotr

Yeah, there is a key difference in eternal youth and immortality. But there are cases in certain stories where immortality halts or drastically slows down aging.

[weak arrow]

Yeah im not gonna say immortals always age, but they certainly can

while eternal youth sort of implies never aging in any circumstance ever

[nimble hinge]

I have. I've also read ones where they can be killed like regular people and just don't age. Others still where they have very minor properties of regeneration. Point was, there's not strict rule of being able to heal. The base definition of immortality has always been identical to eternal youth

[weak arrow]

The base definition is often not how it's presented in fiction

[lunar shell]

Why are you talking about that

[gloomy canyon]

I mean it depends on if there is some condition to their immortality. An achilles heel per say. Eternal youth tends to imply that once eternal youth is attained, they simply stop aging and can't die of old age, but they can still succumb to mortal wounds

[lunar shell]

Is this about ym ?

[zinc iris]

in fiction all types of immortality can be easily found

but the one from the ope-ope should be the one where you stop aging but can still be killed

[upbeat topaz]

facts
in jaya, luffy and zoro said “that wasn’t just one guy, there’s more than one” despite meeting blackbeard while he is alone. (chapter 225)

“he has a weird body” “he’s never slept a day in his life” - Marco at the end of the paramount war and Shanks in the oden flashback during Roger and Whitebeards fight
bb jolly roger has 3 heads (3 personalities, and by extent, ability to wield 3 devil fruits?)

bb has the strongest paramecia already (Gura Gura) and the strongest logia already (Yami Yami)

predictions
he’ll go after the strongest zoan (Uo Uo, Kaidos fruit) at the end of wano.

Luffy will have just beaten kaido, blackbeard will appear, same as in paramount war, (if this does happen it will parallel luffy in the same position akainu was, maybe showing how luffy and akainus ideals are more alike than luffy and whitebeard bc i can honestly kinda see that) killing kaido and taking his fruit, giving him the three strongest devil fruits in the world

he’ll turn on luffy afterwards, with luffy being defenseless after beating kaido and shanks saves him (? i mean seems kinda eh but also oda said shanks would make his move this year and i can see this happening paralleling the end of marineford)

blackbeard says something similar to what he says in impel down to luffy prior to marineford, then leaves, not wanting to fight shanks, but comments “i expect ill be fighting you soon”

shanks + luffy dialogue i can’t predict the future sorry but luffy gives shanks back the straw hat

we later find out via shanks he’s probably heading to new marineford, where sabo has been taken after being captured along with the army captains, following the fight with fujitora and ryoukugu

sabo and the captains have been sentenced to execution

the revolutionary army declares war on the celestial dragons and the world government

luffy, shanks, shanks crew (?), and the straw hats leave wano heading to new marineford (+ yamato and maybe carrot)

got bored and thought of this
theory

[lunar shell]

Yes. The name of the ability clearly suggest it only stop someone from becoming older

[violet hare]

What kind of treasure would become useful only after no longer aging?

[nimble hinge]

That was the first result, and how I've generally seen it treated in fiction. Yes there's variation, but regeneration or healing is an additional property, not an intrinsic one.

[lunar shell]

Oh boy

[upbeat topaz]

for end of wano mainly some stuff about teach

[violet hare]

The Perpetual Youth Operation is more likely to be immortality in the sense that the patient can not die of a mortal wound

[lunar shell]

Nah

[violet hare]

Otherwise, what kind of risks would using the treasure hidden in Mariejois have that no one could really use?

[lunar shell]

That doesnt match the name of the ability

[lunar shell]

I dont see how this is connected

[violet hare]

Don Flamingo wanted the operation performed on him because only then the treasure would have become useful

[lunar shell]

Op op no mi can grant one immunity to eldering that's it

[nimble hinge]

It'll depend. If Bonney can just deage people and herself, eternal youth from Ope Ope no mi seems kind of bad.

[zinc iris]

it wasn't simply that, he wanted also the power to swap minds

[lunar shell]

Ym was probably subject to this power. And is 800 y old

[zinc iris]

to switch bodies with someone, probably Im

the treasure itself can just be something symbolic
it's very implied doflamingo was talking about the diant straw hat in the cold storage

[lunar shell]

Jeez law's fruit is really something

What if teach was created by a devil fruit. Like a fruit fused two human

Or teach was going to die so xebec sacrifice his two sister and give him their hearth

So the dude get two hearth and so he doesnt need to sleep, has an abnormal corpse, and can eat 2 fruit

[violet hare]

So how would you explain how he extracts the devil fruit from someone?

[lunar shell]

His fruit attract things to him. Even the demon of a devil fruit

[violet hare]

He didn’t say he wanted it for that reason, he was just pointing out the Ope-Ope no Mi’s power and potential

[wild turret]

Well we seen the knife/dagger weapon that Burgess was tryna use on sabo

[violet hare]

What’s a demon of a devil fruit?

[lunar shell]

A devil fruit hold the soul of a demon with unique ability

When the host die. This soul wander to find the closest fruit to hold him

[zinc iris]

oh no

[lunar shell]

Two demon soul can t help by one human

Also the haki allow to hit the true body of someone instead of the demon s one

[pure raven]

in jaya, luffy and zoro said “that wasn’t just one guy, there’s more than one” despite meeting blackbeard while he is alone. (chapter 225)
This is probably an early nod to observation haki since some of Teach's crew were on the island

It'd definitely be interesting to see Teach go after the Mera Mera again. Maybe Rocks possessed it in the past (hence the burning skull logo on his ship) and that's where Teach's fascination comes from.

[weary cliff]

Much more likely just zoro being observant (either in the haki sense or general situational awareness) than them somehow sensing that Teach was a multitude when no one else has brought that up in the story

[marble comet]

Hey guys I think I may have made one of the biggest discoveries in One Piece, is it ok if I link my reddit thread? It's a really long explanation.

[grizzled fog]

That’s fine

[marble comet]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/mogk3k/james_joyce_is_the_secret_to_one_piece/

James Joyce's writing explains just about every aspect of One Piece

the river liffey that flows through dublin is personified in Finnegans Wake as a character named Annalivia Plurabelle, who has red hair and talked about but rarely seen until near the end

Luffy and Shanks.

[queen arrow]

Kid is described in the Vivre Cards as having an Evil Charisma, which I'm pretty sure is a term used to describe Doflamingo as well, I'm not sure what the relevance of that would be but it's a thought i had

is this a shitpost?

[marble comet]

Only the last part

[queen arrow]

The first sentence contains " A way a lone a last a loved a last a long the..." contains "a long" which sounds like Arlong, and "a last a" which sounds like Alabasta.

are you sure this isn't a full shitpost

[marble comet]

That's how James Joyce, especially Finnegans Wake works. Almost the entire book is written in words that seem like nonsense, and you need to piece them together

[queen arrow]

sounds bullshit

[marble comet]

It's called one of the most difficult books because of that

[queen arrow]

and also unlikely to have any connections to one piece

if it's a book of nonsensical words throw around of course you can make a connection to something else, but it doesn't mean it really exists

[marble comet]

It's not nonsense. That's the point. It's a puzzle. Think about Gol D Roger, or raftel and laugh tale

[queen arrow]

yes, and it's a book completely unrelated to One Piece

it's hard to take your point seriously when you go "X thing in the book sounds like X thing in English" when this is a japanese manga also

also if you're wondering the answer to this, the answer is that Oda is a pervert who likes drawing like that

[marble comet]

Dude, one of the most important characters in the book is based on the river liffey. literally one letter off from luffy. A character with red hair, who is seen but not heard for most of the book. "Redshanks" is even directly in the book. As is joy boy and one piece

[queen arrow]

yes and that's not a coincidence because?

[marble comet]

Tom Sawyer is mentioned on the first page of finnegans wake, which is luffy's aesthetic. There are "sanglorians" aka totally not shandorians. The last line of the song finnegans wake is "thundering jesus do you think im dead?" Remember how we thought enel, a literal thundering god, was dead?

Finnegans wake the song is the exact same thing as bink's brew

Also Finnegans Wake is the most complicated part, the connections to Ulysses are clearer

[queen arrow]

it really does sound like you're grasping at straws

[marble comet]

Enel's devil fruit is the goro-goro no mi

the sound of thunder, just like thunderwords in finnegans wake

[queen arrow]

and the sound of thunder and lightning are very commonly associated with dieties

[marble comet]

there are so many coincidences that would have to line up that it's impossible. Usopp's beetle symbolism, vivi/isis, I mean law's devil fruit is literally a small red round object that has transmuted lead, just like a philosophers stone

[queen arrow]

Law's devil fruit is a heart

it's to fit his entire heart motiff, not a philosopher's stone

[marble comet]

it can't be a coincidence that Stephen dedalus and devil fruit users are weak to water, that Leopold Bloom and Blackbeard are the EXACT same age pre-timeskip (and shanks is one year off), that van augur shares the same personality traits as Stephen Dedalus, and has an augury rod, that doc Q is visually the exact same as Lucky from Waiting for Godot, written by another Irish author that assisted joyce

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGQToJ9RR-4 is Lucky, his famous phrase is saying "Qua qua qua" aka Q, aka Doc Q

[queen arrow]

yes it can

[marble comet]

The Sirens chapter of Ulysses prominently features barmaids described as bronze, silver and gold. Shakky is a barmaid, connected to silvers rayleigh

anthony burgess wrote a lot about joyce. burgess is another member of blackbeards crew

there are four seas in one piece and there are four provinces in ireland. the people in the west blue were persecuted for their language, the same spot in ireland that has the highest percent of irish speakers

[amber oar]

Taking inspiration here and there is not out of the picture, we have tons of examples, and Oda is very knowledgeable about Western cultures

from there, to claiming everything gravitates towards one single author...

IIRC there was that one videogame that seems to have inspired the warlords

[marble comet]

I think the fact that the major characters of one piece have so much in common with the major characters of Joyce's works is significant. Sure if it was just the supporting cast that would be one thing. But Luffy's name is literally one letter off from one of the main parts of Finnegans Wake. Blackbeard and shanks are almost the exact same age as Leopold Bloom.

The most defining geography in the world of one piece is the grand line. The most defining geography in Finnegans Wake is a river.

resurrection and returning is one of the biggest themes in FW, and it is in OP too. brook returning to laboon, the strawhats returning to sabaody, nobody dying because they are constantly being resurrected, and the one person that does die (ace) is essentially resurrected in sabo

the sentence that wraps around FW is about returning. Marco has a devil fruit that lets him reincarnate essentially

[queen arrow]

Marco doesn't reincarnate

he regenerates his wounds

[marble comet]

a phoenix reincarnates. yes that is what is literally happening but that is the symbolic significance of it

[queen arrow]

Marco doesn't reincarnate

[marble comet]

and yeah its not JUST james joyce but its one of the biggest aspects of one piece i think

[queen arrow]

i think you're really grasping at straws here, like a lot

[ancient vault]

Oda takes a lot of inspirations but saying he based the entire story on one book when most points are really vague makes no sense imo

[queen arrow]

for example, we know Kid's name is not based on that

Oda is japanese and writes in japanese, so this is one is also a particularly off point

that's actually 2 letters but it's really besides the point

[marble comet]

lmao oops yeah. There's definitely errors, this is a lot of guesswork. If you haven't read Joyce's work it probably makes no sense, I'll ask some people who have and see what they think.

I sent it to my professors who know a lot about Joyce, they can probably give a good perspective

[queen arrow]

but have they read one piece

they can't give a good perspective having not read one piece

[marble comet]

sadly no. Actually maybe people on /lit/ can give a good perspective, they probably have

[queen arrow]

this one is also a bunch of weird points, the VOAT is less about language and more about literally hearing voices from unanimate objects and Enel's fruit is an onomatopoeia because a lot of devil fruits are,

this really sounds like a big reach

there are at the very least 5 seas in one piece, since the grand line exists

[ancient vault]

[queen arrow]

i don't get this entire section, sun and moon symbolism is present in a lot of stuff, and crosses too, how does this relate to the point at all

[marble comet]

right but when you look at a map of one piece you see the four seas, just like the four provinces of ireland. It could represent a divided Ireland. There are a lot of colonial themes in one piece, just like Joyce. I mean the world government rules over the planet because of their powerful navy, just like Britain

the moon stuff is just theorizing about one piece itself really. But the sun relates to the celtic crosses throughout one piece

[queen arrow]

when you look at a map of one piece, you don't just see 4 seas

[marble comet]

compare marco's tattoo to a celtic cross, along with kuma's shirt

[nimble hinge]

Oda takes inspiration from all over. Even Joy Boy has some obscure reference to some south asian story

[marble comet]

no doubt, that's the thing about joyce. Taking inspiration from all over is joycean. That's exactly what he does. That's why thunderwords in finnegans wake are made up of words from dozens of languages. There often are multiple inspirations for the exact same thing

[queen arrow]

crosses don't mean they're related to this guy's work

that's why i don't see how that entire section relates to your point

[marble comet]

mostly because of the celtic cross/sun symbolism, crosses also represent Jesus, who is the "risen son" which is found throughout finnegans wake. The "sun rising" is a major theme in one piece, ushering about the dawn

[queen arrow]

son and sun aren't the same word

[marble comet]

it's wordplay

[queen arrow]

Oda is japanese

[marble comet]

Gol d roger

[polar bison]

do u like. think oda is james joyce reincarnated or smthing?

[queen arrow]

the point i'm trying to make, as swrml puts it

[grizzled fog]

We already know where a lot of stuff gets it’s inspiration from in one piece, so saying all or most is based on this is really really reaching hard

[marble comet]

Here's an example of Finnegans Wake. http://finwake.com/01/01.htm

It makes no sense, but if you click on the underlined words, there is a method to the madness

[queen arrow]

yes but that's not one piece though

[marble comet]

My point is that one piece follows a similar style in having extremely obscure connections, though one piece is much more accessible

[queen arrow]

what extreme obscure connections

[marble comet]

is it really a coincidence that enel's devil fruit is named the sound of thunder, just like thunder words in finnegans wake, and he is a thundering jesus that we thought was dead, exactly like the end lyrics of the song finnegans wake? That is surely too on point. The song finnegans wake is about death, but not getting sad by it and basically having a party, which matches the lyrics in bink's brew, "you'll end up a skeleton"

[queen arrow]

yes

[marble comet]

bink's sake i should say. sake = the drink, but also the word sake that rhymes with wake

[queen arrow]

Sake doesn't rhyme with Wake

[marble comet]

yes it does. the other sake that is spelled the same

[queen arrow]

did you just not see the bunch of dieties tied to electricity that where named in Skypiea also

there's a lot of connections between "god" and "lightning" it doesn't mean it's connected to this one story

[marble comet]

Saul is on the same page as the word giants in Finnegans Wake. Saul is a giant in one piece.

[queen arrow]

the stretching you make is unbelievable

[grizzled fog]

Just....the same general page?

[polar bison]

you are literally making tons of random meaningless associations between the two series over and oven again and expecting us to take that as gospel that Oda is apparently a fan of an irish author who wrote gibberish despite never once mentioning the man in any of his SBSes and also not having english as his first language

[grizzled fog]

Literally the two words share a page? That’s meant to be a connection?

[marble comet]

its a little closer

[polar bison]

I think this is a troll so i’m gonna go to slee

[marble comet]

https://editura.mttlc.ro/fwliniarized/FW LINEARIZED full text pp 3-628.pdf ctrl + f giants

[marble comet]

Ceasar is right next to it too. Ceasar clown tried to make kids into giants

[grizzled fog]

These are just massive reaches

[polar bison]

a last a also sounds like alaska

I think this may be proof that Elbaf is wholly based on alaska. thanks dude you’ve opened my eyes

[grizzled fog]

Might as well say “this page contains the words I’m and You, which sound like Imu”

[marble comet]

http://p-www.iwate-pu.ac.jp/~acro-ito/Joycean_Essays/FW414_buginning.html

Relates aesop (usopp) and beetles

usopp's weapon is called kabuto, his trainer was a beetle

which also connects to the rising sun

(according to that article)

oh shit i just realized

under that same column in finnegans wake as "saul" and "caesar" theres also "esop" and "catalina" aka usopp and catarina

[amber oar]

Saul, Caesar, Catalina, they (and their respective regional variations) are all three very common romance names. Catarina may be a reference to Catherine the Great

Usopp's name coming from Aesop isn't a secret

[marble comet]

also i was wrong, saul isnt just on the same page as the word giants, its on the same line. the only instance of the word saul in the entire book

[polar bison]

so?

like what does this connection mean. what is it telling you that saul and giant appeared on the same line of a book written 100 years ago

[marble comet]

Honestly it's pretty difficult to explain it without reading Finnegans Wake. Finnegans Wake is a book filled with those kinds of connections. Every single page is "hmm, does this ACTUALLY connect to this?" I think the fact that there is a parallel between every single major theme or visual of finnegans wake and Ulysses is the strongest evidence. The river liffey bookends FW, which sounds like luffy, and is personified as a person with red hair who we only really see late in the book, like shanks (presumably). Blackbeard and Shanks are virtually the exact same age as bloom, and are positive and negative versions of him. Bloom is called an antisemetic term, a "wandering jew" which is a story about "sinning against the light" just like how blackbeard has a darkness devil fruit. Redshanks is found directly in finnegans wake, capitalized. the grand line, the main geography of the one piece world is a flowing body of water, just like in finnegans wake. Luffy's design, tom sawyer, is mentioned on the first half of the first page of finnegans wake Oda is transmuting names in the exact same way joyce does.

that's probably the best explanation I can give for now, I think yes in isolation it could be brushed off but when you add up all of the connections, of which I have definitely not made, it's at least something. Don Quixote is an important theme to Joyce, and there's a character named that in one piece

[waxen light]

Holy shit, this reads like a schizophrenic fever dream. What in the fuck lmao

[marble comet]

Again, take a look at https://www.finwake.com/1024chapter1/fw01.htm and click on the underlined words. It sounds crazy! But it's not. Joyce and Oda both take inspiration from all cultures to write stories denouncing racism and imperialism, and place a heavy emphasis in their stories on food and starvation

the people in the western quadrant (ireland has 4 provinces) of the world, the west blue, were persecuted for speaking their language. Ireland has the highest percent of irish speakers in western ireland. Ohara is both a japanese and an Irish surname

[waxen light]

Ireland has the highest percent of irish speakers in western ireland

You just blew my mind with this sentence.

[marble comet]

Sarcasm? Why lol. It has survived there a little bit better than in eastern Ireland, is what I'm saying.

And that is a huge deal in Joyce's writing. Western Ireland is like a place of "hidden Irishness" at least in stereotypes, like how Ohara, in the west blue, was one of the last bastions of their language

Sanji is a nobleman, who is obsessed with love, and is from the north blue. On the first page of FW we see, "Sir Tristram, violer d’amores, fr’over the short sea, had passen- 4
core rearrived from North Armorica" aka, sir tristram is a nobleman of love, from the north.

nico rhymes with vico, one of the main inspirations behind the themes of recirculation in finnegans wake. brook is another name for a river, which is central to finnegans wake. nami means wave, or a type of water, again central to finnegans wake

venison = chopper (and carrot) also on the first page

[waxen light]

No not sarcasm, I'm just confused as to why that has to be stated but you answered it just now. I don't know shit about ireland so I was just confused.

[marble comet]

Oh, no worries lol

I mean if nothing else, the comparisons to Ireland should be pretty accurate. Decimating languages they don't approve of, ruling over thanks to a powerful navy, themes about starvation, freedom, and racism all directly tie to Ireland and britain

[gloomy canyon]

@dusky acorn would love to hear your thoughts on Kid vs BM and how you think it will play out

[frozen prairie]

Are you Irish, @marble comet ?

[dusky acorn]

A theory of mine is in the works for it right now! It's actually taking a bit longer than expected.. but I'll have it out sometime after the official release for 1010 comes out tomorrow. Let's discuss things in full after that. And don't worry, I won't forget to ping you

[gloomy canyon]

oh nice, 👍

[marble comet]

I'm not, I took an Irish literature course and a couple other courses from Irish professors, including a course about Joyce

[jagged elbow]

wait looking at the anime esp today could u say that roger and the crew did not find the one piece

[fallow egret]

Laws ability still has plot holes

Why can his attack hit kaido if his haki is not strong enuf?

Shambles cant work but injection shot can?

[mystic crown]

THEORY DISCUSSION: Relevance of the "Hawk eye"

Im wondering what the relevance of this eye is. Pre timeskip the eye wasnt present in Ashura iterations.

We havnt seen much of zoros training besides simply applying arnament haki to his swords.

[keen portal]

It's not a "hawk eye"

[random tundra]

I think shanks has the last road porneglyph for a few reasons
1.Roger had that last porneglyph and shanks was on the ship when roger hide it
2. There was no use in shanks future to be in rogers crew since he got his reputation by fighting mihawk over and over and those fights were legendary
3.Shanks protect that last so not the wrong person aka blackbeard gets it, and blackbeard prob knows shanks has it and thats their rematch aka the foreshadowing from marineford

[ember trench]

That’s not... it’s just the “intimidation” eye shading effect

[mystic crown]

Lmao color spread really makes it look like Mihawks eye. My bad

[keen portal]

Ye they just drew those color streaks shades from the eyes.

It's cool but it shouldn't be confused

[grizzled fog]

That’s not what a plot hole is...

[true flame]

LMAO

[sacred hawk]

So what if the Raid Suit redesign is just that the "3" on the cape (and the canister) gets replaced with a Straw Hat logo

[ancient vault]

Sanji Lucifer transformation is cooler 😎

[errant oxide]

If Zoro opening his eye could do something, he would have done it the last 2 chapters. Give it up lol

[lyric dust]

ping me

[dusky acorn]

@tawdry hound Don't post troll theories in here

[hybrid raptor]

Because any attack that deals with spatial manipulation of one’s body/soul can be blocked due to haki like shambles, and his body swap ability. But injection shot is a physical attack, similar to gamma knife as well, so it can go through. Regardless to if he’s using his devil fruit. Physical attacks just come down to if it hits.

[late carbon]

What i still till find interesting is the idea of coating ones body in conquers Haki What would be the full extent of that?

Would it be the same as bushoku Haki or would it just be like putting armor on top of armor

[waxen light]

Full body CoC coating

[junior shoal]

Shambles is black and white attack, either it works or not, you can't teleport someone partially or like that but for physical attacks and now a defence they can do partial work like somewhat damage upto an extent, reducing damage upto an extent

[gilded wagon]

That would be garbage imo lmao

[gilded wagon]

Probably big moms “iron balloon” body is a result of Conquerors haki, that’s probably it’s fullest extent

[weary cliff]

I had the same thought

[zinc iris]

however mom always was super hard even as a child, while this CoC coat is a deliberate use that needs to be learned

[gilded wagon]

Ehhh, debatable. Haki isnt defined throughly enough for us to be able to rule out big mom being born with it as a latent ability & oda hasn’t explained the “iron balloon” thing yet so we’ll just have to wait and see with this next battle against kid and killer

[zinc iris]

i mean that while regular use of coc is triggered unconsciously, doing this thing is something you have to come up with and it's why it's something not all CoC users do

[weary cliff]

See these doubts are the reason I didnt say anything earlier. It could be that she was unconsciously a child prodigy at haki like Asia. But I rather prefer her body just being weird is an anomaly. The universe will lose a little mystique if every bizarre power, like asura, boils down to a niche application of haki

[zinc iris]

well aisa too was using the basic aura sight one

innate use of haki still is in its elementary form, applications still require you ti actually want to use them

then again, there is the fact that bege's plan was all about the fact that big mom when distressed by carmel's photo being damages was actually phisically vulnerable

[median slate]

Is it possible that Roger told shanks the next pirate king will be that with the will of D? Is that why he was crying?

[patent dirge]

Regular use of CoC, can be triggered consciously

[patent dirge]

CoC isn't for defense

[zinc iris]

after you learn it but the first time you have to go waaah

[patent dirge]

It's Color of armament

[gilded wagon]

It’s unconfirmed as of right now

[whole jewel]

I have an interesting topic: Where do we think sanji is going to help? I personally think he’ll join the air fight against Big Mom. And this is purely because of his competitive spirit with Zoro.

[ember trench]

He’s going to protect Momo

[whole jewel]

Momo is still with Yamato though.

[ember trench]

Read Sanji’s last appearance again

[ancient vault]

Archer is back

[whole jewel]

Ah my b, I probs missed it then

[ancient vault]

Momo is busy carrying onigashima

[pastel summit]

Who is Sanji protecting Momo from that Yamato isn't?

[ember trench]

King

Or someone. Who knows, that’s where he’s going though

[thick halo]

So what you guys think about the current act structure? Do you think it’s only 3 acts or will go to 4 or 5. If 4-5 how much longer do you think act 3 will last? I have such a hard time figuring out where Oda is going. He is to good at throwing me for a loop

[verbal vector]

Is Sanji op rn?

[ember trench]

Only 3 acts

[thick halo]

Interesting. Then how many more chapters do you think are left in Wano. It’s currently at chapter 40 ish in act 3. Do you think act 3 will be like 90 chapters? 10 chapters act 1, 15 chapters act 2, 70-90 chapters act 3?

[ember trench]

It won’t be that much longer

[thick halo]

Oh wow you Think we won’t get a kaido flashback then?

[ember trench]

Uh I mean we could

[fervent hawk]

If it's 4-5 acts then act 3 will go for 20-30 chapters more I think

[ember trench]

It’s not going to be super long though

The battle itself will end in twenty chapters or so

We are nearing the final stretch

[thick halo]

There is a lot still that needs to be resolved. I’m leaning towards 5 acts. With another 40-50 chapters to go

[ember trench]

Nah

Way too much

[thick halo]

I don’t think we got enough sh moments in Wano. That’s why I think we are going longer

[ember trench]

I don’t understand. The straw hats have been getting their moments during the raid and have threat matchups set up now.

For the most part

Wano is in its final stretch

[pastel summit]

4 acts but the 4th act never ends because it represents the new age of Wano.

[ember trench]

“When will act 4 end”

[pastel summit]

and yeah, everything will be ending soon. People expect a lot, but the fights have progressed, there's an actual end in sight for Kaido's defeat, which has always been the main "how do they win?" and since that's basically settled, everything else will progress.

[thick halo]

I think the reason why arcs are so good is because the SH have so much emotional resolution in them. So I feel like we still have something missing. May be I need to read Wano again in a single sitting but it’s still not there for me yet

[ember trench]

Yeah well that’s not going to change if Wano goes on for a hundred more chapters

[pastel summit]

I'm still on the train that the lower fights won't be too consequential, which is why we weren't seeing them. It definitely feels like a weird decision from Oda to hype up obviously the most anticipated fight of vs. Kaido for 10+ chapters, then cut back to fights that won't be on the same scale or level of importance. But depends on how 1011 goes.

[ember trench]

He did it with Dressrosa and Doflamingo too so I am not surprised

[pastel summit]

yeah but I mean, Luffy G4 reveal was AFTER everything else. Like, we saw the beginnings of that stuff, but it's not like we got that much progression of it.

[night jewel]

Oda did highlight the significance of the other fights here as well, with what the CP0 said, dont think its odd

[pastel summit]

okay, and half of what CP0 has said was already incorrect, or is becoming incorrect.

[thick halo]

I feel like luffy might lose once more and the sh crew needs to rally once more and all together with the alliance fight off kaido and possibly bm or something. Not sure. I just feel like the SH crew needs something more this arc

[pastel summit]

The numbers advantage on the side of the beast pirates is waning, King still thinks killing Momo will end the war, which is incorrect.

I'll believe they're significant when they're given a reason to be significant, not "because CP0 said so"

[night jewel]

I mean, even if tama tames all 500 of the gifters, this still would be a thing, she wouldnt be making a "massive" difference when the tobi roppo and calamities can just take them all down, no matter how many pleasures choppers has gotten on his side, the powerful officers are still a problem, and thats what i was talking about. They havent been proven wrong on this, as seen with sasaki who easily powered through the gifters tama got on their side

[pastel summit]

Beast Pirates are built around the idea of them being forced to submit to Kaido, reducing their willpower and thus fight for him. Alliance is built around raising their willpower to fight a fight that was a losing battle to begin with. They have different philosophies for fighting, and I don't think CP0 has a grasp on what makes the beast pirates run. which is Kaido.

I mean, these are the same gifters who were stopping Zoro for a bit. Yes Sasaki stomped some of them, doesn't really mean much to me though. The numbers advantage either matters or it doesn't. If every single beats pirate member aside from the top executives changes sides, does that change anything, yes or no? If it doesn't, then the numbers never mattered in the first place, and the F6 being able to take out 100 at a time was irrelevant from the beginning.

And if it does, then the favour has swung towards the alliance.

[night jewel]

that wont really be an issue, it would take hours and hours to defeat kaido, in the meantime, his officers can be taken down. It doesnt need to come down to a point where kaido is defeated and his officers are left with no one to lead them, no one to take away their freedom and whatnot, they can be defeated around the same time as kaido, or before even, like with mingo, whose crewmates all went down before he did, or crocodile, etc etc. Not saying the numbers thing doesnt matter, I think things are definitely going in Alliance's favour with that, and a ton of gifters can definitely exhaust them, like they exhausted zoro or how sanji told luffy that fighting ton of them would just waste his stamina, but thats all they would really do, weaken them up a little, at the end, someone would still have to beat them up, finish them off completely.

[pastel summit]

but why? Is there narrative importance to their defeat? I think the only circumstance in which their defeat matters is if the people fighting them have a secondary objective. So for example, if you want to say after beating Sasaki, Franky goes to the roof to help fight BM and/or Kaido, then I can see it being important that Sasaki actually gets defeated.

[night jewel]

yea thats what I personally see happening, an all v the emperors fight after the strawhats are done with them, they will be weakened but even a weakened strawhat would make a good difference against them, so based on what i see happening, it does seem important

[pastel summit]

As of right now, I'm not seeing a huge narrative difference between defeating and stalling, and Oda has barely placed any emphasis on anything that's happening below the roof (in terms of fights) for quite a while now. So Idk if he's valuing all that highly. Like I said though, I think this chapter changed things a bit. Oda might just go through it all for the fanservice of seeing a bunch of fights, (though I think most people would rather see roofpiece) and then cut back to Luffy vs Kaido once it's all done.

We'll see what happens in 1011. If we get focus on sasaki vs franky or jinbei vs who's who, then I'll admit I was wrong. but I think the longer we go without focus on that stuff, the less important it becomes. We didn't even see reactions at all from hakai aside from the rooftop. I'm sure everyone below felt that as well.

[night jewel]

Yea i think we will just see a few panels of the people reacting to the rooftop fight, like " man the fight on the top is so wild" etc etc like we got in 1003, and yea at this point we can just wait and see, personally i can pretty clearly see oda go completely "no rooftop" for 5+ something chapters again, probably to progress them more, maybe end some, maybe start some (sanji fight, carrot's rematch, whatever peros is planning), etc.

[pastel summit]

but the focus he pulled away from the rooftop wasn't fights, it was more narrative exposition. Kanjuro still being alive, the whole deal with the scabbards, mysterious silhouette, the whole chapter with sanji asking for help, orochi being alive and burning the castle (gonna assume this has narrative relevance otherwise orochi being alive was utterly pointless). The only stuff really relating to fights was Robin saying she'd fight Maria (the most obvious exmaple) and the 2 scabbard duels, Sanji making a decision on what he was going to do in the war which may or may not even be related to him fighting anyone, and Yamato saying she wanted to fight Kaido. I'm sure he will pull away from the rooftop to go back to below, but the question is exactly in what capacity. It's not just fights going on.

from the beginning, the only fight that has had much focus was Kaido's fight. The rest has just been brawls with not too much focus.

but there's a lot of narrative stuff going on. Like what are the scabbards going to do, what is Hiyori doing, what has she done, what is she going to do. What is Yamato going to do, she just seems to be running aimlessly atm. What is Sanji going to do (once again, not confirmed he's going to fight someone, he's intending to help in some manner, which we've seen previously from Sanji, he helps in more ways than just fighting).

[night jewel]

We did get some focus on peros v carrot, although it was offscreened but I am sure carrot will be getting a rematch, franky v sasaki ofc, and nami and usopp v ulti and page one, we did get some focus on those individual fights too during the 5 chapters

[pastel summit]

we got 0 emphasis on "nami + usopp vs page one + ulti" we saw them running away on Komachiyo, and enacting Tama's plan. Out of everything you could've picked, Nami & Usopp is the least fight going on rn. I think if anything, we'll get whatever Chopper is doing since monster point is time limited, and idk if we're only going to see it to see funny slap, and Robin vs Maria because it's so isolated from everything and was given the most focus out of anything, with that entire chapter being dedicated to it.

we got focus on the narrative of carrot vs peros, it being offscreened only helps my point.

I'm not saying we won't see what happens below the roof, but I don't think we're getting anything like dedicated chapters for each fight. This where I'll change what I'm saying a bit. They may get defeated, but I do not think there will be a huge fanfare over how they get defeated. I think we'll see a few blows here and there, and then see the finishing blow, and then if they're going to do anything else, they go and do it.

Oda has barely shown anything outside of vs Kaido. Minks vs Jack offscreened, dukes vs jack, offscreened. Jinbei vs Sasaki, ongoing and has had 2 small panels of any kind of attention. Carrot + Wanda vs Peros, offscreened. Most of whatever Drake has been doing outside of when he was with Zoro, also offscreened. Nami & Usopp just kinda running. Chopper was mostly just developing the cure. Franky is the only one with so much focus, and even then I think the main point there was to show the gifters switching sides. and keep in mind, the fight with Kaido has been going on for 25 chapters now. It started in 986 with the scabbards stab.

[night jewel]

yeah i was emphasising on the rematch part, which I think would be onscreen, a fight that would be significant. Nami & Usopp running away and randomly attacking Ulti and Page One Is "the fight", usopp was busy running away from perona too but its still a fight, and yea, chopper v queen is still technically a fight that has started, think he will team up with drake with that ( only alliance fighter "free" right now(apoo is practically dead so i dont really think they are fighting), Marco v King and Queen was also a "fight", however short it was. and by a few blows are you basically saying that we will get what we got from sasaki v franky for all these fights? a couple of pages of them exchanging some blows, eh... can see that I guess

[pastel summit]

No, I'm saying there won't be a "Franky vs Sasaki" chapter.

[night jewel]

yeah by that i mean they dont get actual focus but its just some pages of them exchanging blows or w/e, no real emphasis on the fight

[pastel summit]

and the point with Nami & Usopp is there's no active engagement. With the Perona fight, we see his thought process of thinking of how to beat her. His thought process here is less "how do I beat P1 and Ulti?" and more "I am going to try and feed these dango to as many gifters as possible"

there's barely even a thought of a "fight", they're just delaying.

[night jewel]

nami saying that she would need stronger lightning for ulti counts, there is a thought process behind how they are going to beat page one and ulti with that, even the gifters plan is part of the fight, part of how they are trying to beat page one and ulti

[patent dirge]

It's simply not feasible for Nami to conjure such lightning.

Especially now, without Zeus.

[night jewel]

....without zeus? zeus is all packed up for her

[pastel summit]

I mean, Nami is wishfully thinking. She doesn't know what is happening up on the roof. That's not a plan to defeat, it's like "it'd be nice if my lightning was stronger"

reminiscing on zeus.

[patent dirge]

And Big Mom is about to feed him to Prometheus

[night jewel]

thats just a theory lol, we dont know that

[pastel summit]

I still don't think it's really anything close to emphasizing a fight there. Emphasizes she might get Zeus (which for the record, is only feasibly going to happen if the roof collapses ) and use it.

[patent dirge]

And anyway, Yamato's lightning wasn't enough for Ulti

[night jewel]

Yea i dont think its going to be zeus, but thats mainly because i hate zeus as a powerup and how impossible it is for her to get it right now... but knowing oda, its probably that

[patent dirge]

If Nami isn't getting Zeus then she definitely isn't outputting lightning equal to Yamato's Bagua let alone more

[warped adder]

Honestly, Zoro is Luffy’s mom COMFIRMED

[fathom matrix]

Prometheus seemed to no longer want Zues around and is getting annoyed with him

[pastel summit]

but still, nami and usopp AT THE MOMENT, are not really trying to fight P1 and Ulti, they're trying to get away from them, and delay them in any way possible, which includes tossing the occasional attack, because both are long ranged fighters.

[fathom matrix]

Maybe Big Mom might make another lightning cloud, and shout "YOU'VE BEEN A PAIN IN MY SIDE, ZUES, WHEN I GET THE CHANCE, I'M TAKING BACK THE LIFE I GAVE YOU"

[night jewel]

would kill for usopp to use a lightning hammer that acts as a pseudo mjolnir, until he gets a real one. He made the clima-tact weapon, i am sure he is capable of doing that

[patent dirge]

Yes I could see Mom snatching her soul back soon

[night jewel]

Nami uses her lightning to contribute in that and boom, there we have our stronger lightning

this is partly because i think ulti will be defeated with a blow on her head, since she is the headbutt girl, so it ends up making a lot of sense for usopp to use a hammer on her head to beat her... but oda is probably going to give zeus to nami again

[fathom matrix]

Maybe she could make a new cloud called "Thor", and he's a lot more aggressive and strong headed into battle, with Big mom saying "I put a lot more of my soul into this one, than I have with Zues, guess I have to make up for the years I've lost after this"

OR, maybe instead Big Mom puts more of HER soul into Prometheus?

[fathom matrix]

Oh man, if we do go to Elbaf, that'd be funny and cool

Heck, Elbaf is Usopp's arc and it will be legenary

[pure raven]

Usopp redemption

[night jewel]

yea, it would basically foreshadow the real mjolnir's existence, but I can also see the giants be shocked about him using a mjolnir, and its basically " oh my god that man is using the mjolnir", and he goes along with that lie until he gets a real mjolnir

and we will be getting an elbaf arc, doubbbttt we wont

[fathom matrix]

If there is like a "real mjolnir", what if it's like that one spongebob scene, where everyone struggles to pick up that weapon, but the most unexpected person picks it up and the higher ups are like "nono, it's can't be this long nose coward, what about you strong green haired swordsman, maybe you orange lady who wields lightning, or you manly man of metal.....wait, you're serious, he picked it up?"

Though, like with Enma and other blades, maybe Mjolnir could be a haki infused or haku influenced weapon, where it just gains mass or almost makes it impossible to pick it up, if your aura or haki doesn't match

OR it makes you feel so weak, it's like it's gaining mass

Like, maybe there was a giant or warrior named thor, and when he died he made it so that his successor would have similar haki aura to his, to pick up the hammer

[night jewel]

yea i can imagine something like that, but i wonder what would be oda's reasoning for having only usopp be capable enough of picking it up, but regardless, i am sure we will get an elbaf arc, and what better way to foreshadow it than having usopp beat one of his opponents like that

[fathom matrix]

Maybe it could show him trying to live up to being a warrior?

Like, if this hammer "choses" him, it shows some significance and potential for him to go above and beyond.

[night jewel]

yup but i am wondering about the specific reason as to why he becomes the chosen one, wonder where oda will go with that

[fathom matrix]

TBF he's a sniper and what would be even the point of a hammer, but it's a gag weapon he used various times, so maybe it's another lie to "come true"

[night jewel]

he uses hammers all the time, its practically part of his fighting style now, he is a sniper and a hammer user

[fathom matrix]

Oh yeah, and he's fixed the ship with one a lot and didn't he beat Chu with one?

[night jewel]

yeah he basically kept hitting him with a hammer until he was knocked out

perona was defeated with a hammer too, although she was knocked out of fear

[manic relic]

Where can i reread old one piece chaprers?

[night jewel]

!mangawhere

[lone hedge]

<#🔗old-wiki message>

[zinc iris]

usopp gets stormbreaker

I think Usopp will be central in Elbaf because of his unintentional following of Norland
and I expect Norland to have been at elbaf and being famous there

[last halo]

It would need to be something similar to him being negative in Thriller Bark. Something that makes the giants pity him, even though he's the only one able to lift it.

[zinc iris]

because we already had the tontattas being like the lilliputians and gulliver also went to an island of giants (Brobdingnag)

[ember trench]

Mjolnir idea is poopoo

[night jewel]

Usopp using some sort of lightning hammer against ulti is a massively better idea than nami getting zeus again, something that completely goes against her fighting style, typically involving a lot of strategy

[zinc iris]

btw @night jewel @fathom matrix mjolnir being enchanted to only be lifted by someone worthy excalibur style is an invention for the Marvel version of Thor, in the actual mythology it's only stupid heavy and Thor has a magical belt that makes him physically strong enough to lift it

[fathom matrix]

Ah ok

[ember trench]

Zeus doesn’t go against Nami’s fighting style lol

[fathom matrix]

I thought the worthy part was actally from the mythology and they took note of that

[ember trench]

Usopp the sniper getting a fucking godlike magic hammer is what you’re talking about

[night jewel]

ah,mb, but I was only considering that idea because usopp obviously would never be physically strong enough for that, would have to be chosen for it or something

[night jewel]

Almost like his fighting style has always involved him fighting with a hammer

[ember trench]

Almost like it hasn’t

[zinc iris]

also magical iron gloves because the handle was too short so he needs better grip

[night jewel]

so perona and chu's defeated suddenly doesnt exist? or him using it against miss merry christmas? did that not happen?

[mortal star]

What kind of improvements will sanji's raid suit have when ussop and Franky are done with it?

[zinc iris]

change those boots to they don't make that shitty sound at every step anymore

[mortal star]

Amen that's all the improvement I need

[ember trench]

sO pErOnA aNd ChU’s DeFeAT sUdDeNlY dOn’T eXiSt

All of those fights involved him using his sniper and trickster skills to defeat an opponent not smashing through them with a magic hammer

Crack theory

Doubt Elbaf will even be “Usopp’s arc” or whatever

[weak arrow]

Well the only real reason to even go there would be for Usopp if Big Mom isn't involved

[night jewel]

he literally spammed hammer attacks on chu, and perona was defeated like that, even if cockroach trickery was involved

[ember trench]

They’re not going there for Usopp they would go there because either the log points there or they have something they need there

Luffy wants to go to Elbaf too

[weak arrow]

and if they happen to go there, Usopp's gonna get a big character moment.

[ember trench]

I mean maybe?

[pastel summit]

perona was defeated by a balloon, not a hammer. Chu was mainly defeated by the burning sake, the hammers were just funny way to end the fight.

[ember trench]

^

[weak arrow]

Literally the only reason to choose elbaf than make up any random island would be for Usopp to get some development or because big mom is involved

[pastel summit]

It entirely takes away from the point of both of those things to just turn usopp into a strongman with a LITERAL god-tier weapon.

[night jewel]

hammer balloon... and chu was going to get up if usopp didnt beat him up with hammers, so technically thats how he was defeated

[ember trench]

Only reason to choose Elbaf over “any random location” would be because it’s one of the only previously established major islands left and giant lore

Usopp fanboying over giants would be secondary to whatever goes on there

[craggy pumice]

established most of times connected to Usopp

[ember trench]

Not even connected to Usopp. He just likes giants

[weak arrow]

It's gonna be more than nami to FMI but less than Sanji to WCI

[craggy pumice]

only time we have been told about Elbaf without Usopp was Big Moms flashback

[night jewel]

I mean, you are saying that like his pop greens arent literally just magical ammo for him, if he can get that i dont see why he wont get magical hammer or some shit

[pastel summit]

It's as much of a connection of Zoro saying he's interested in the Wano Samurai.

[ember trench]

Pop Greens supplement his sniper skills a magic hammer does not

[pastel summit]

because at the end of the day, even though pop greens are magic shit, they're not powerful magic shit. They're convenient magic shit.

[ember trench]

Defeats the point to make Usopp a godlike hammer dude

[pastel summit]

Usopp just becoming "I hit you with hammer to defeat you" takes away from how he fights.

[night jewel]

they are insanely powerful, impact wolf easily oneshotted daruma(forgot his name?), they are powerful, convenient magic shit

[ember trench]

Daruma is a clown

[weak arrow]

Definitely a big disagree. Usopp's dream is a more subjective thing while Zoro's is objective. Giants are something Usopp idolizes while Zoro can go to Wano to basically test his strength. Giants would be important for Usopp's development towards his subjective dream.

[ember trench]

Meanwhile none of his attacks can hurt Page One or Ulti

[pastel summit]

wow, 1 shot some random fishman, in an arc where the entire point was to show the SHs growth

[ember trench]

ACTUALLY it took three moves to defeat Daruma

[pastel summit]

also, pay attention to the daruma fight, it's still exactly the same way he fights. He didn't just power through, he used an actual plan.

[night jewel]

they can? he was doing ok against them, just didnt win

[ember trench]

They can’t

[night jewel]

and why are you assuming that getting mjolnir would mean he completely discards the sniper part of his fighting style? he can fight with multiple things

[pastel summit]

because why is he fighting as a sniper when he can just swing magic hammer that beats whoever he is fighting

[night jewel]

and why are you assuming that there cant be some plan to his mjolnir fights? and also maybe there is some drawback that doesnt allow him to use it all the time, etc

[ember trench]

He’s not getting mjolnir bro

[night jewel]

aight bro

[ember trench]

Come on now

[night jewel]

still infinitely better than nami being enel

[ember trench]

Oda isn’t going to pull any marvel comics nonsense with mjolnir where Usopp is the only one who can wield it for some reason lol

[pastel summit]

no, it's worse. nami being enel is also shit, but usopp getting a god's weapon is shittier.

[night jewel]

archer

marvel didnt invent norse mythology

[ember trench]

No way!

[night jewel]

he can take mjolnir from norse mythology, and come up with some of his own to explain why usopp can use it

[ember trench]

Thor being the only one who can wield mjolnir because he’s “worthy” is a marvel thing though

Might as well have Luffy wield a hammer named mjolnir that isn’t special at all and is just an heirloom

Then he breaks it or something

[night jewel]

I know, but he wouldnt be taking from marvel, that would be his own addition, not that i ever said that he has to be a chosen one, just considering the possible route oda might go with

thats like saying he stole luffy's powers from the Marvel/DC's rubber men, just because they happen to be similar, that doesnt mean he is doing some marvel/dc comics shit

[ember trench]

Lmao

[lusty token]

I don’t think shopping would get “mjolnir” as we know it

[ember trench]

Arsal how much stretching do you do in the mornings

[lusty token]

Maybe some mega slingshot

[ancient vault]

Why would he have tp be the only one being able to wield it tho?

Why not just give it to him it as a gift or sth

[night jewel]

I didnt say that swrml, i said that there is a possibility of that

[ember trench]

Because Arsal is desperate for Usopp to be Thor

[night jewel]

its because i am desperate for nami to be a weather manipulator

not enel

[lusty token]

It could be he just ends up wielding it or it could be a ranged weapon hence why usopp is the only one to wield it

[pastel summit]

even though you're still advocating for her to use lightning anyway

[ember trench]

https://tenor.com/view/asshole-newsflash-asshole-gif-9334249

Nami has been a weather manipulator since Alabasta

[night jewel]

yea i said that maybe nami can contribute in whatever usopp comes up with against ulti, not that she has to

[lusty token]

It would be cool if usopp got something on elbaf though

[night jewel]

ah yes, whatever happened to heat ball

[lusty token]

I think on elbaf usopp just gonna get an upgrade for his slingshot

[zinc iris]

boo

[lusty token]

Possibly haki based

[ember trench]

Sorry not sorry

[lusty token]

Maybe he’ll befriend Loki

[ancient vault]

Archer give me wjhat ur on

[ember trench]

It will be Usopp’s arc about as much Wano is Zoro’s arc

[ancient vault]

u got that good shit

[night jewel]

how long has it been since she used mirage tempo again? or tornado tempo? heck where is gust sword? what happened to it since punk hazard, did she ever use it? hey what happened to snow thingy she did once?

great weather manipulator nami, definitely not enel

[ember trench]

I agree

[ancient vault]

zeus just to broken ig

[ember trench]

Actually since Wano is Zoro’s arc Elbaf can be Usopp’s

[ancient vault]

[lusty token]

I’d rather see nami awaken ob haki rather than get better weather powers

[ancient vault]

Lets bet since ur so confident

[pastel summit]

what do any of these things have to do with Usopp Mjolnir though?

I agree with you, Nami being Enel is shit. I've probably complained about it longer than you have, but not seeing the correlation.

[ember trench]

Bet on what? Whether popular opinion dictates Elbaf is an arc belonging to an individual character above everything else

[night jewel]

I explained like a million messages ago, that nami wont be getting zeus again, partly because i hate it as a powerup, but instead, i think Usopp will beat ulti with a hammer

[ancient vault]

Whether relbaf will be usopps arc like zoro (you) or comparable to sanjis (me)

[pastel summit]

so you think... Usopp is magically getting a new hammer that produces lightning, called Mjolnir? In this arc?

[ember trench]

Sanji didn’t have an arc he just had a very prominent role in Bege, Big Mom, Katakuri, and Pedro’s arc

[night jewel]

essentially, but if a real mjolnir exists then it wont be the real mjolnir, can wait for elbaf for that

[lusty token]

I’d say he’d either get a slingshot named gungnir or griðalvör

[night jewel]

it wont be magical, because usopp is capable of inventing the clima-tact

wont be out of nowhere for him to be able to make something like that

[ancient vault]

jajaja im talking about importance, screentime etc. in an arc which sanji had a lot.

[night jewel]

headbutt girl defeated with a hit on her head? makes sense to me. Nami saying that they need stronger lightning? hm... maybe something like Mjolnir ...? i dont know

[ember trench]

Maybe he gets a brain hemorrhage and dies before he can see Elbaf

[lusty token]

Do you think that usopp could end up hitting an enemy with a normal hammer that was electrified, be deified and have his weapon come to be known as mjolnir?

[ember trench]

Maybe something like her getting Zeus back

[night jewel]

bad

[pastel summit]

well, I can confidently say, I doubt Usopp is hiding some super powerful weapon that he can use to 1 shot Ulti in his back pocket. so I don't think this theory is going to hold up very well.

[night jewel]

yea, thats also possible

[ember trench]

Maybe something like Law bringing the box with him downstairs and it making it’s way to Nami

[night jewel]

bad

convenient, predictable and also, a bad powerup

[pastel summit]

at least these theories make sense, even if they're bad.

[night jewel]

but also, redundant, because there was no point of having it be taken away from nami in the first place, big mom can fight just fine without it, Nami : gets it, loses it and wow! gets it again

[ember trench]

Only point of her getting Zeus back at all was for Big Mom to fight at full power lol

Nami is most likely getting him back at some point

[night jewel]

big mom just said its useless

[pastel summit]

he's "useless" because he got trapped

[night jewel]

it doesnt put her at fullpower

[ember trench]

Yeah obviously he’s not useless lol

[lusty token]

Big mom night make a new Zeus and nami takes the original

[upbeat otter]

Usopp suddenly pulling out a weapon capable of defeating someone without haki is much worse

[pastel summit]

and she wasn't able to use him. do you think she means he's literally useless?

[night jewel]

she can fight just fine without it, she can make a new zeus, which seems like what she is doing

[ember trench]

She can fight alright without him but a good chunk of her power comes from her three homies

[pastel summit]

it doesn't put her at full power, but she'll make another one anyway

[night jewel]

yea, i am arguing that even if it does, she can just make a new one lol

[upbeat otter]

How can she create something which BM did with her df

[night jewel]

....oneshot? dont think i said oneshot

[night jewel]

talking about big mom, not nami, in case you are confused

[upbeat otter]

Oh,ok then

[ancient vault]

What do you think Franky has in store? He did say he built some weapons to use vs the Yonkos

[junior shoal]

Super beam

Most prolly some vegapunk craft

[ember trench]

Probably nothing

[pure raven]

Do you guys think that akainu df is superior than sabo's? Technically the lava has a maximum temperature on earth but fire df is too general. Fire df can also reach sun's hotness which technically is 5 times hotter than lava.

that would be so cool

[keen portal]

Real world physics don't matter

By akainu's admission, magma df is superior to fire df

[ancient vault]

It was stated that akainus magma is hotter than aces fire thats why he managed to burn him. So akainu is superior

[pure raven]

i guess so haha

[olive quail]

That being said I think the flame flame fruit has more heat potential. At base it might not be as hot, but I think Sabo can and will train it to the point where its heat supercedes that of Akainu's devil fruit, probably turning blue as a reflection of that and fitting Sabo's color scheme.

[keen portal]

Perhaps as an awakening option.

But then akainu could do the same shrug

[olive quail]

I just read the official so Im not sure if anyone mentioned it here. But I think we're about to see Zeus' replacement.

Prometheus doesnt really get along with Zeus and was complaining about him before making a request to Big Mom. Then when we see Kid he looks up to the sky above Big Mom and mentions something strange about the clouds. I think he's witnessing this new homie's birth.

I think this new homie will either be named "Thor" or "Raijin" after two of the other well known thunder gods

[keen portal]

Yeah that's a likely assumption

[olive quail]

I'm leaning toward Thor as a reflection of the nordic culture Elbaf is based on and Big Mom's connection to it

[keen portal]

I'm more in favor of Jupiter tbh, signifying the transition from Zeus to Jupiter, Greek to Roman, his Roman form being much more serious and war-like in Roman stories

[hollow grotto]

Nami and Usopp could be fighting outside, and she'd notice the newly-made homie in the sky. Learning that the lightning itself is much stronger than what she previously used on Ulti, she'd be able to provide a devastating attack from BM's own ability twice

[worthy breach]

Did he? Which chapter?

[olive quail]

Speakig of Nami my biggest problem with her permanently having Zeus was his loyalty. I didn't like having someone on the crew only there out of fear and intimidation. If Big Mom betrayed him by replacing him he would go back to Nami on his own accord.

[hollow grotto]

It's interesting to see what they're going to do with that story, because I really doubt Zeus is done with Nami yet

[olive quail]

Yeah he was a big boost to her for a while. It would feel weird if that suddenly stopped

[hollow grotto]

Some suggested outlandish ideas like Nami acquiring BM's fruit, but honestly, I just can't see that

[ancient vault]

in Zou like chapter 821 or sth

[worthy breach]

I'm actually wondering that whether we'll see meaning of BM's words to marco which was "I dont have enough souls to use against you" or something like that at the end of this arc or fight.

[worthy breach]

oh yeah that was it

[keen portal]

This is what she said, "enough soul weapons"

[olive quail]

She was referring to zeus i think

Wait is this before or after she took him back?

[keen portal]

Look at her legs, that's poor zeus

[olive quail]

Oh nvm

She probable means the homies she has cant really hurt him