manga-theories

[pure raven]

i just said single handedly with one hand

[verbal ocean]

which chapter is this from?

[tame tendon]

Ch. 631

[uncut wigeon]

hey i mean he gave u what u wanted lol

[pure raven]

Is this according to the four gaurdians in chinese mythology?

[zinc iris]

I want to expand on this
in this mythical/elemental paradigm there's also a fifth creature at the center that is usually the golden dragon
or the kirin, but usually the kirin can take the place of the white tiger

[worthy hedge]

yes
and we already have the 2 out of 4

dragon is kaido
phoenix is marko

yamato propably the white tiger
and i want admiral greenbull to be the rotle

[pure raven]

Not sure about marko tho

[zinc iris]

vermillion bird is not the phoenix

they are two different things

[pure raven]

Since if he is vermilion he will have the mentally of an arrogant person and have the ability to heal too

[zinc iris]

also while it's safe to assume the other legendary animal DFs exists out there, it doesn't necessarily mean they are going to appear, let alone all of them being involved in this arc

[pure raven]

Vermilion is basically a spiritual creature and its basically like a mutated pheonix with better overall abilites

[zinc iris]

the vermilion bird has power over fire but is no associated with healing at all

[pure raven]

Also phoenixes symbolize “queens” and female characters mostly so marko probably is a somewhat variant of a pheonix

[pure raven]

Oh yeah i mistook that with pheonix my bad

Phoenix is the one that controls life, death, and harmony and something else that i forgot

[zinc iris]

which technically is ALSO different from this one
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenghuang

[pure raven]

Yeah, marko’s ability is just rebirth which is pheonix related

Its just one ability so its probably something like a lesser version of the real pheonix fruit

[zinc iris]

which is the bird associated with empressess, in contrast with dragon being for emperors

[tired osprey]

marco is just a bit of mix of them all

[zinc iris]

but fenghuang, vermillion bird and the phoenix are all different things

[zinc iris]

not even that really, his power is essentially the healing part, his fire is not even real fire

[tired osprey]

his design

[pure raven]

I mean phoenixes and vermilion birds both have somewhat different portrays in chinese, korean, japanese mythology

[zinc iris]

the phoenix is a creature of arab mythology whose biggest aspect is rebirth from ashes

chinese mythical bird is more like ho-oh from pokemon

[pure raven]

Phoenix was from arab mythology?

[zinc iris]

yes

[pure raven]

I just knew that

[zinc iris]

ghouls too are from arab folklore

[pure raven]

Also another thing i dont think that four guardians theory is true because of kaido, his personality is the opposite of the azure dragon in some aspects.

[zinc iris]

I don't think those guardians are going to map very well even by role

it's just that as established fantastical cretures, their mythical DF does exists in the OP world

[pure raven]

I think they just made them without the intent of the four creatures tbh

[zinc iris]

but considering anyone can eat them I wouldn't read too much in character roles

[pure raven]

Ik but their abilites should have things that resemble them

[zinc iris]

it all falls apart when you try to map all 4 of them

[pure raven]

Marko’s fruit has a phoenix’s ability which is rebirth

[zinc iris]

is BB the black turtle because it's black?
also what are big mom and whitebeard?

[pure raven]

Wdym?

Fuck my battery is at 8% gtg, anyways it was nice talking to u man

[zinc iris]

that for example if the intention is to map the four beasts with the yonko there are obvious probleme

[pure raven]

ok real theory this time
black beard is at elbaf already and having a conflict with shanks
black beard dies/is captured before luffy gets to him

[zinc iris]

I find very likely that blackbeard kills shanks before luffy can meet him again, but why in elbaf in particular?

[onyx fjord]

i have strong doubts blackbeard dies before he is the main antag of an arc

[pure raven]

elbaf has been eluded to alot in the series and i think there may be something there important like a ponneglif

[zinc iris]

we're definitely going to get to elbaf eventually, maybe the very next arc after wano, but it doesn't really seem BB and Shanks would have important business in that place

also if there's the road ponglyph that was in fishman island it would have been Whitebeard's doing

[weary cliff]

There's a lot of speculation about BB killing Shanks, or Shanks being secretly evil (which is the worst) but I'm starting to like the theory of Shanks and Luffy coming into conflict because Luffy is causing too much upheaval. Shanks has always been a keeper of the status quo, whether it be shutting down the Paramount War or meeting the Gorosei about BB. So I could see a situation where post LT strawhats go to fight the WG and they have to go through Shanks first.

Still think it's more likely Shanks falls instead trying to prevent BB from doing something. It feels like every time we've seen Shanks post chapter 1, it was something BB related. He was the only one who saw him for the threat he actually was, back before becoming a warlord or anything. Would be a fitting conclusion, and one which presents an opportunity for Luffy to demonstrate growth

[burnt roost]

Don’t u think luffy and shanks will work to defeat bb

[weary cliff]

Could be, but I don't think so. Shanks is built up for someone who Luffy will surpass, and BB as someone who parallels Luffy. It wouldn't truly be Luffy overcoming BB or surpassing Shanks if there's a team up

[dusky notch]

Will Oda play such an obvious plot

[little kelp]

do you guys think the Strawhats will get new bounties after Wano?

[weary cliff]

At the end of the day, OP follows the hero's journey like any piece of fiction. There will be Oda-style curve balls, but I think BB going down is as certain to happen as Luffy finding the one piece

[dire obsidian]

Blackbeard will kill Shanks, Luffy kills/defeats blackbeard. Luffy wants to give his hat back to Shanks when he sees him again which obviously won't happen. That's why Shanks didn't appear in marineford until Luffy was unconscious

[vestal isle]

why is it obvious that luffy doesn't get to give his hat back to shanks?

[craggy pumice]

Because people listen to bad theories

Seriously, it could go either or, but its far more likely that Luffy does meet Shanks

Since Oda rather wants something that is built up to, go fulfilled, and the moment where Luffy meets Shanks is probably something he wouldnt want to avoid

Shanks not meeting Luffy in Marineford was keeping the promise.

Shanks dying before that and Luffy returning his hat to his grave or whatever might be a good tragedy if Oda does it well, but that would be rather a surprise. Thats why I said Luffy meeting Shanks, drinking together, making jokes, maybe Shanks testing Luffys abilities and giving his blessing to that Luffy is a great pirate, would be rather fitting to what we know of One Piece, and more satisfying. The opposite would be a surprise and perhaps also good but by god not obvious

[dusky acorn]

Yeah, it's very plausible to be their greatest increases yet. I have predictions on what they'll be myself, here's the most revised estimate for reference:

Luffy 1.5B -> 2.8B (Someone pointed how out 2.8 is half of go-mu 5.6 which is highly speculated to be Luffy's final bounty, so this is a nice even number to leave off on for now.)
Zoro/Sanji 320/330M -> 1.02B/933M (Think it's high time Zoro bounces back to the front. The new bounty gag this time is going to be shaming Sanji for barely not hitting the billion mark.)
Jinbe 438M -> 777M
Usopp 200M -> 500M (Always pulls through with some extravagent, nice looking inflated bounty number)
Robin 130M -> 487M (Looks like Robin is going to be taking the spearhead in this current Maria fight as opposed to Brook, WG may start taking her poneglyph reading ability more seriously now that they can clearly see what the Straw Hats are up to. Ha Na 8/7)
Franky 94M -> 355M
Brook 83M -> 243M (Yo Mi 4/3)
Nami 66M -> 220M

Kid 470M -> 1.93B (Always gets edgy, uneven numbers to fit his personality. 315, and then 470)
Killer 200M -> 800M

Law 500M -> 1.8B ((Kid and Law have a track record of not being equal in bounties, one is always slightly ahead of the other. Kid having such a strong underling in Killer up there against the Yonko would probably make him look slightly more fierce as a pirate captain this time around as well.)

[pure raven]

Reckon Oda can pull some goroawase magic and fit 'mugiwara' into Luffy's bounty?

[onyx fjord]

I think 999 would work better for Sanji in this case.
I think it would make sense for Law to get a higher increase than Kid and also for Robin to have a higher bounty than Usopp by the end. Usopp only got that bounty I think cause of the memeing in dressrosa that happened

[dusky acorn]

Maybe, due to the sheer magnitude of the bounty increases this time he may try going for some more puns like the Yonkos

Law could stay higher due to him starting off on a higher plateua but again, his subordinates aren't showing themselves up to the same might as Kid's are, who actually has his entire crew on the island as well. Law just has Bepo, Shachi and Penguin down on the basement

[pure raven]

Killer at 800 mil is difficult to believe

[onyx fjord]

hey killer is fighting bm and kaido head on with the rest. its certainly possible

[dusky acorn]

How so? He's one of the very rare 5 out of literal thousands actually fighting two Yonko, of course he'd be that high

[pure raven]

It would be tremendous to see Urouge return after doing something ridiculous with a bounty of 1.08 billion

I know but I can't see him at that number yet

[craggy pumice]

I think Luffy should have 3 billion but Oda always surprises with bounties so it could be lower or even higher. Would be also cool to have Franky at 444 and Brook at 333 to reflect the old bounties but maybe im just thinking oldschool there. and I think kidds bounty will be over laws too cuz he seems to be seen as more "radical" to the marines

[onyx fjord]

Urogue defeats Shanks and Blackbeard offscreen

[pure raven]

Maybe Urouge infiltrating WCI and getting past Katakuri somehow

[craggy pumice]

Killer at 800 is perfectly fine considering what he is doing

[onyx fjord]

does anyone know if there is a reason for why the Yonkou have such random numbers instead of clean even numbers.
Example Whitebeard has like 5.048 instead of just an even 5

[pure raven]

Oda makes puns with the number sounds

[dusky acorn]

Oh, that's just due to the nature of the puns Oda tried going for yep

[onyx fjord]

what puns? I was not aware of this

[pure raven]

e.g. In Shanks' bounty of 4,048,900,000, the 4-8-9 can be read as shi-ya-ku (シヤク). This could refer to his given name "Shanks" (シャンクス Shankusu?).

[dusky acorn]

Whitebeard’s 5,046,000,000: 4600 – shiro = white (4=shi 6=ro)

[pure raven]

One Piece is not 100% correct in bounty = power, like Boa destroying a Pacifista with 1 hit and having 80 mil bounty or Usopp with 200 mil, so I can see Killer having less like 400 mil and making total sense

[willow idol]

its been said multiple times within the series that bounties dont equal strength

[craggy pumice]

Boa didnt even have a bounty there

[onyx fjord]

Boa is only 80 because of her warlord status nullifying her bounty before it could increase higher

[craggy pumice]

cuz she was a warlord, from the moment on where she did literally the first thing as a pirate being

[pure raven]

I know but at the time she became warlord she was way weaker than destroying a pacfisita like that?

[craggy pumice]

she has far exceeded the level of 80 millions but her bounty froze

[onyx fjord]

they equal threat to wg yeah. It doesnt equal strength but usually threat goes hand in hand with strength

[craggy pumice]

do you know what happens to your bounty when you become a warlord?

[pure raven]

Yes but Oda still likes to play with bounties

[craggy pumice]

yes? but became stronger?

[pure raven]

I don't think so

[craggy pumice]

and why is that?

[pure raven]

I don't know when she became a warlord but she was probably an adult and I can't see her gaining such a power boost from that time to the present

[craggy pumice]

if we can imagine the bounties for the likes of Zoro/Sanji (around 300 now) or Kid/Law (around 500 now) going up to almost billions or billions, I can't see why we can't do the same about Killers 200 million going up to 800

[craggy pumice]

she is like 31 now. could be anytime after being 18-20

[pure raven]

Then that would make sense...

[craggy pumice]

in 10 years you can gain immense strength. Look where Luffy is now

[onyx fjord]

why do you guys think sanji will get even close to as much a raise as zoro will

I dont think the dynamic they have of being rivals and near strength really qualifies as enough for sanji to get as huge an increase as a member of the team fighting 2 yonko

[craggy pumice]

what difference between them do you want?

[onyx fjord]

I dont care for a difference, Im just saying it wouldnt make sense for them to be close

[pure raven]

I see 3.5 billion for Luffy, 3 for Kid and Zoro and 2.5 for Law and Killer

[onyx fjord]

I have no bias towards zoro

[craggy pumice]

I think that is too high

Well, I am just wondering what you define as close

[pure raven]

but what about Don Chinjao? He had haoshoku haki and 'destroyed a continent', and unless his bounty decreased he still has 500 mil at the present day, I can't see Killer having more than that right away, he can totally still have 400 mil and starts increasing with time

I'm just wondering if these will be the final bounties we see besides Luffy probably having a bounty poster at the very end of the series with 5.6

I don't see another downtime moment beyond post-Wano

[onyx fjord]

I think the 2.8B that Shimon said earlier sounds spot on for Luffy
I see 1 Bil for Zoro and 600 mil for sanji
the rest of the crew idk. id suspect jinbe would be the 4th highest bounty though or yamato if he joins

[craggy pumice]

I think fighting emperors is rated higher than forming landscapes

Could be another thing if Chinjao attacked countries with civilizazion

but iirc he only did it to hide his treasure

[pure raven]

true but the fact he was a captain pirate with haoshoku it's still more than impressive

[craggy pumice]

well I could see Sanji around 700-1b and Zoro 800-1.2b I think thats enough difference

[pure raven]

better examples are Sabo and Ace's bounty, I get that is a big deal fighting or maybe defeating a yonko, still I don't think Killer will have that much bounty right away, but that's enough topic for me

[craggy pumice]

Chinjao was a pirate 30 years ago, it was a different era too. I think if he has "only" 500 that just means he wasnt as much a danger to the civilization as the marines or the wg see the worst generation or the yonko today. they shit their bricks anytime the yonko talk to each other, meet each ohter, or someone defeats their commanders. I think the scale is higher nowadays and that could have caused an inflation of the bounties

still I don't think Killer will have that much bounty right away
I think this Yonko battle would be the perfect opportunity

[pastel sinew]

Guys, I’m rewatching punk hazard (don’t ask) and the yeti brothers definitely are linked with the past somehow.. we already know that their hats are shaped like straw hats to begin with, but in one scene, Luffy literally goes “ooo he’s like a monkey”

[lyric dust]

puns

[pastel sinew]

I’m probably overthinking

[zinc iris]

the biggest problem with bounties is that there are no bounty hunters of note

[mild kite]

I just don't see Sanji having that close of a bounty to Zoro.
Luffy 2.5-3.
Zoro 1.2-1.6.
Sanji 770-997

Jinbe 548-648. He is already an established pirate and his bounty didn't increase when he joined the Big Mom pirates.

[zinc iris]

well wasn't he 400M before the TS?

[mild kite]

He was 250 mill before the war iirc

[zinc iris]

so he went from 250M to 438M and this latter bounty was shown during Wano that is after WCI, so it can easily also include his association with BM

[mild kite]

Hmm. Thats true

What do you think Jinbe's bounty is gonna be post Wano? I have a hard time believing it will go over 748 mill, depending on what Luffy's bounty is tho.

[zinc iris]

it kinda also depends what bounty has WW

we don't know anything about the tobi roppo's ranking

but you know, it's interesting that at the moment jinbe is actually higher than zoro and sanji

[grizzled fog]

I see jinbe reaching around 600-700

[zinc iris]

!winbe

[lone hedge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486983010025996299/813425656615665694/unknown.png

[zinc iris]

but the various SHs are somehow undervalued

but really it happens in most crews everyone is overshadowed by the captain, whose bounty also factors the danger level of their underlings

like katakuri is the second strongest member of the BMP right after big mom but she has 4 times his bounty

[grizzled fog]

Makes sense tbh, that’s fairly representative of the gap between them

[amber oar]

well, Robin went like 3 entire arcs as the second highest bounty in the SHs

[mild kite]

^ and Jinbe will suffer that same fate. He will slowly be pushed in the backgound in terms of leadership and strength.

while still being stronger than brook/franky but weaker than the monster trio

[zinc iris]

we should rearrange the power ranking
luffy at the top, zoro sanji jinbe as the power trio

as if they were his yonko commanders

[onyx fjord]

if yamato joins youll need a power quartet

[short lodge]

Has this been resolved or happened yet?

[dusky acorn]

Yes, the development has been expanded upon and reached a satisfactory conclusion later on,in a subsequent SBS. Kozaburo, Koushiro's father is the one who led the departure, who is also the grandfather of Kuina. As Oda said there, it really wasn't a big thing, but a nice little underlying tie-in to Wano that was always there which we didn't know about previously.

[short lodge]

Wow, thanks for the thorough answer! I should've finished the SBSs then before asking

[signal moon]

Do we think law teleported luffy with everyone? Don’t see a swish of him leaving. If he didn’t - can law tele him or does that signal yonko willpower

[dark palm]

you mean away from hakai?

[dusky acorn]

It's already known Luffy is able to be teleported by Law since it was done in the past, but even if Luffy did have haki akin to the calibre of these Yonko, it wouldn't matter to the point of becoming a detriment towards Law's power. As long as Luffy isn't menacingly exerting his haki out towards Law, and eases up in the moment when he knows Law is about to use his power, then he'll always be able to teleport Luffy, no matter how strong he becomes.
And yeah, it did seem as if Law teleported Luffy along with the other 3 from the Hakai. Even though he and Killer were in the midst of dodging, there simply wasn't enough time.

[dark palm]

yeah, law can teleport luffy

my theory on it is the outward barrier the yonko possess

since big mom and kaido are extremely durable for an unexplained reason

might just be a layer of haki

[signal moon]

Ahh dang ok. I saw something on a yt video thought it was neat. Couldn’t think of a time he teleported luffy. -remembers doffy now-

[signal moon]

I was thinking the same thing when spoilers dropped about big mom. Kinda explains how she gets hurt when Carmel photo is tampered with.

[zinc iris]

or maybe it's just that he can be affected by law because he's a willing recipient of the ability

[dark palm]

that's also a possibility

law's haki was stronger than doffy's after all

[zinc iris]

like in D&D you can deliberately fail a saving throw

[zinc iris]

or the disparity wasn't enough to become impervious to his df effect

[dark palm]

he did hurt him through his haki at one point

I just figure that doflamingo was more durable and had more general attacking power

[zinc iris]

well landing something like gamma knife is just a matter of overpowering his defense

[dark palm]

nah I mean when he drew blood from doffy's hand

[zinc iris]

sword + strength + haki vs haki

[signal moon]

I’m thinking luffy just dodge hakai to attack then. I don’t think he got teleported. If my head cannon is right it’s cool lol

[dark palm]

I mean, doffy basically grabbed the sword

so they're at least similar in quality

[grizzled fog]

Yea that, + law being able to use shambles is enough for me to say law had slightly better haki

Has oda ever visually drawn law using haki?

[signal moon]

Definitely on par if not better

[zinc iris]

I don't think so

[grizzled fog]

Feel like it’s always invisible

[zinc iris]

he never blackened anything with law

[dark palm]

never, I think it's just implied most of the time

like with smoker/tashigi and vergo

[zinc iris]

I think smoker used black fists

[grizzled fog]

Makes it confusing, I wonder if kid has been using haki and oda just hasn’t bothered to draw it

[signal moon]

Vergo? He went full body no? Or was it just anime

[dark palm]

not vergo, law

im saying vs them

[signal moon]

Oh gotcha

I mean. Idk where to place vergo but he is the only full body we have seen. Might put him above doffy. And law above that

[grizzled fog]

Vergo above doffy?

[signal moon]

Only with haki

[grizzled fog]

Even with haki I don’t think he’s above

[cyan sand]

can someone explain to me a way that sanji could lose to anyone that doesn't have observation haki, now that he has invisibility?

[sand sail]

He's only invisible, he hasn't lost all traces completely. He can be heard, smelled, felt, and the environment will reflect his movement

Beyond that, he doesn't fight invisible the entire time anyway

[grizzled fog]

He may not be able to stay invisible forever anyway

We don’t know the limits of the raid suit yet, he needs a challenge to see

[cyan sand]

also, for the prison collar luffy and hyogoro had in the prison, was there any reason why luffy himself couldn't just use armament on his neck? I don't think an explosion like that would take him out, and even if it could, could he not just use haki around the area it blows up only, to keep its strength (not going full coating like vergo/pica)?

it just seems wild considering he can tank hits from yonko

[zinc iris]

he recently used it against king and still looked the same?

[mild kite]

Oh.

You didnt see anything

fcken Hack Oda

[pure raven]

o

[queen arrow]

cue Sanji beating an invisible guy himself, by paying attention to his surroundings and throwing some salt at him

[cursive zinc]

or luffy vs boa sisters cuz he was faster than haki "predictions"

[fringe tide]

One happiness punch and he bleeds out

[lament cave]

they were strong explosives.

[ancient vault]

?

[wintry pelican]

What if the one piece is actually garbage

And that’s why they were laughing at it

[dry shell]

What if when luffy and shanks meet they go fight black beard and then shanks dies and from luffys rage he goes to gear 5

[ancient vault]

My friends

[tired osprey]

manga theories are my friends

[autumn zinc]

explosives >>>> conquer of the three worlds , Rag-Naraku

[dark palm]

they weren't explosives

[pure raven]

^

They’d chop his head off

iirc

[dark palm]

don't think he wanted to risk using haki on it either

they were training

[autumn zinc]

I think it was both , the collar had the sharp inners which are supposed to chop the head off , but it also explodes

[dark palm]

the "explosion" is just from the force

same with here

[autumn zinc]

hmm , you are right , i probably just confused it with the yamato handcuffs

[pure raven]

.

[pure raven]

Wait, what of big mom dies and because Zeus and prometheus have some of big moms soul separate from big mom, they survive and nami gets prometheus and zeus

[smoky dawn]

he was allied with them, he didn't join them

[mild kite]

Yep, you're right.

[knotty ginkgo]

Maybe Usopp will come and defeat big mom and kaido

[dusky acorn]

He really won't. Don't post troll theories in here.

[livid scaffold]

Hmm but I don’t see how Nami can tame Prometheus

[fading plank]

Just imagine usopp getting kaido to eat a kibi dango and O-Tama just has a yonko as a slave

[sage pond]

Guys what if shanks knew the coordinates of the 4 islands that point to laughtale, because he was there when they determined the coordinates with the roger pirates, he also said to roger when he departured at the island with buggy "We will visit the island when we have our own ships in the future", so what if shanks visited laughtale, but he did not publicise it, and thats why he could talk with the 5 elders, because they respect that he did not publicly say that he visited laughtale, or expose what the treasure is or what the void century is about

[fading plank]

More like he can speak to the five elders cuz they're scared that he reveals the story of the forgotten century

[sage pond]

yeaaah

[lunar whale]

Sharks would already know about everything though wouldn't he?

[zinc iris]

you can't really know how powerful was the contraption itself in terms of mechanical force, so would you take the risk of triggering it just hoping your armament can withstand an otherwise surely mortal blow?

[shadow sinew]

there would be no point in telling us they didnt go to laugh tale if they were just gonna be told everything

[dapper mica]

JoyBoy was the ruler of the fallen kingdom and those with the initial D are his descendants. They carry an ancestral memory of their heritage which inclined them towards rebellion against the WG as they subconsciously know who they are, which is why they are also known as the enemies of the gods.

Also I suspect that Im and the 5 elders (maybe the rest of the celestial dragons as well but I’m doubtful) know the history of the void century and have passed down the truth through word of mouth

[zinc iris]

Im and the Gorosey definitely know

[zinc iris]

while the hypothesis that Joyboy and the D were the king and their descendants is a pretty straightforward one, I'm not sure really fits with the general messages of one piece
it would imply the endgame is to restore the ancient kingdom that is essentially a move backwards while in OP history only moves forward

[fallow tree]

Is all of OP just a 5-act Kabuki play?
Act 1: East Blue (character intro/plot intro)
Act 2: Alabasta -> Thriller Bark (heavy plot/ fighting)
Act 3: Sabaody -> TS (tragedy/drama)
Act 4: TS->Wano/Elbaf? (heavy plot/ fighting)
Act 5: Elbaf->Final War (conclusion)

[craggy pumice]

you could split up most long stories like that. also I think the 3rd act is supposed to be longest. Final War would probably still be in act 4 depending on the definition

[fallow tree]

maybe

[daring sundial]

I dont think that a war will be the end of OP i think that a war will be the beginning of the end most likely the arc after the next or the next

[onyx fjord]

are you ignoring how marineford by itself has more fighting than a lot of timeskip

and alabasta -> thriller bark isnt heavy plot

[pure viper]

I feel like we are just starting to dip our toes into the world government, and major plot points

[onyx fjord]

the only part of Phoenix's message that really works with Kabuki is his act 1

[pure viper]

sabaody to time skip was full of tragedy and drama more than any other arc tho

[onyx fjord]

sabaody and some parts of marineford r tragedy but nothing else rlly lol
and as for drama i dont see what you mean. the drama present in mf saga is present in most other sagas its just a trait of one piece's writing

[craggy pumice]

the whole saga is resulting in a huge tragedy tbh

[pure viper]

yeah definitely more tragedy than drama

[neon shoal]

Does anyone else think madam shirley prophecy correct. I believe luffy, after defeating big mom and kaido, will use tralaw submarine ship, go to fishman island, destroy big mom sweet factories and claim fishman island under his protection, similar to whitebeard.

[onyx fjord]

that would be an extremely long trip. if the factories are to be destroyed it would probably be by proxy

and i dont really think that fulfills shirleys prophecy because that refers to FI as a whole

[sacred hawk]

Okay, so chopper has the human human fruit, but his transformations don't looke like a normal human at all.

So what if his fruit is really the Human Human Fruit model: Yeti?

[onyx fjord]

i think the point of the fruit is to look humanoid not necessarily human

[pseudo citrus]

the people with zoan fruits still look a bit humanoid when they fully transform, so it makes sense that chopper still has some raindeer traits even when he fully transforms

[ancient vault]

Yeah this isnt only seen and tied to the kabuki play. Stories in general are built in a similar way since it just makes a lot of sense.
The kabuki structure is just sth that gives it a set "position" with the acts in theater

[wicked grove]

Do you guys think we’ll have another time skip? Or some form of time jump? The way Wano is turning out, it’s clear that Luffy by himself is still not at a level where he can beat a Yonko by himself. A way I can potentially see Luffy get there is via another training time jump (hopefully with his crewmates)

[foggy quarry]

For sure

[wicked grove]

@pure raven 2 up

[pure raven]

o

[misty timber]

I could see another time skip but at the very end when the strawhats have achieve their goals, maybe to let us see what the strawhats have become 10y after their adventures, i will cry that day

[pure raven]

Just a theory I had

[mellow sapphire]

Yeah if there is a final timeskip it'll be a 10 year epilogue type deal, like a lot of Shonen stories do

[zinc iris]

also the 5 acts come from them being 3 acts where the middle one is split again in 3 narrative parts

[shadow pike]

do you guys think luffy dies in the story that one piece covers?

after they finish their journey, will their be an epilogue after the straw hats disband

[mild kite]

Can't wait when Sanji flexes CoC in the epilogue

Oda please

[mild kite]

I say yes

[shadow pike]

will be sad as fuck if so, even if they have a happy ending

[pseudo orbit]

dont worry.. zoro will die in this arc before they found one piece

[amber oar]

I don't rule it out, but that has never been One Piece's tone.
It would be tragedy for the sake of it, Oda has never handled tragedy like that.

After thinking a little, I have a theory about the end of One Piece. It will end with the crew reaching Laugh Tale, full stop

[nova spindle]

something has to be done after they find one piece

refer to rayleigh conversation in SA

[pastel summit]

yeah, I highly doubt there will be no aftermath to them finding One Piece.

[amber oar]

I have something written down, let me finish

[amber oar]

immediately after, he adds "Even after you see the world in its entirety at your own pace". So the implication is that the conclusion doesn't just come from the revelations at the end of the road, but also from what they have observed and experienced in the journey

[nova spindle]

Right... buthe did say 'as you are now, you won't be able to do anything even if you learn everything'

implying that something needs to be done

there's also luffy's goal... the one he shares with roger

[amber oar]

Oh, they'll do something

my point, is that Luffy's will fulfill the prophecy, before reaching the island. Laugh Tale will be the reward, not the key to unlock a new "mission"

[pastel summit]

I mean, less about the rayleigh thing, I think the most telling thing would be the WG killing Ohara and especially Clover, for "knowing too much". Robin's learning capabilities + seeing more poneglyphs than the scholars of Ohara, is definitely lead them to "knowing too much". Unless the top of the WG is already dismantled by then, but imo, that'd feel weird without knowing the underlying history behind it all.

[nova spindle]

Sounds about right... one piece is basically skypeia

[amber oar]

OK, done https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/mnb8u2/one_piece_will_end_with_the_straw_hats_arriving/

tl;dr:

• Luffy has been following the steps to the prophecy and stumbling into the relevant people for it, without intending it, and without needing to learn anything.
• Luffy just sees injustice and acts, he doesn't need to "learn" anything. So he doesn't need to reach Laugh Tale to take action in whatever brings the dawn of the world.
• If Luffy reached Laugh Tale just to discover he has job to do, he didn't become the freest man in the seas. The idea is that Laugh Tale completes his dream, doesn't unlock another quest. Oda also said the One Piece was a reward.
• And seems the wording in the vol 97 SBS implies that the great war comes before Laugh Tale

[pastel summit]

the SBS doesn't really imply that. The SBS more implies that Luffy isn't dying. The story of One Piece follows the "most interesting part" of Luffy's life, which is the entire saga of everything related to the One Piece/LT. It's not implying that the series will end once he finds OP, it's that the story isn't going to go into Two Piece territory, where there's an entirely different goal.

If there's a war as a result of finding OP, then that's part of that same story.

Luffy has also been influenced to take action in certain ways by a bunch of people, and I think it's disingenuous to act like he doesn't learn stuff then act. that was like, the entire reason dressrosa broke out into chaos. because luffy and other SHs learned what Doffy was doing.

and subsequently acted on it.

[ancient vault]

Exactly

Yeah I dont think theres a job for Luffy on Laugh Tale but after Luffy learns about the history he will decide himself what to do

[amber oar]

Luffy acted upon what he was seeing in present time, he didn't sit to hear the story on how Doflamingo took over 12 years prior before making up his mind

or was 10? but that goes beyond the point

[pastel summit]

but the point is that he learns the situation, then acts on it. You're saying he's not going to use the information he learns on LT and do anything with it? He acted on Rebecca's story, he told Franky that he could do whatever the fuck he wanted after Franky heard the Tontatta's story. He still learns stuff. If he never heard Rebecca's story, he'd probably just think Dressrosa was a chill place with funny toys.

[amber oar]

I'm saying he'll do something about the world, before learning the history of the world

[pastel summit]

when and why?

what is prompting him?

[digital pawn]

Spoilers! Luffy will laugh on Dietale...

[pastel summit]

https://i.imgur.com/9YcNsBO.png

[digital pawn]

@pastel summit are you suggesting I'm not serious?

[pastel summit]

want me to ping a mod to determine if you're serious or not?

[dusty galleon]

Luffy's just a selfish pirate who wants stuff to be as he likes it. When he sees something he doesn't like, he will fix it so he does. It's just that because he's a good person the stuff he doesn't like is usually the bad stuff in the world. He doesn't usually care about history of those he's helping or stuff. Oden is one of the first times he's actually heard the backstory of whoever he's helping. He didn't even know about backstories of many of his crew

[pastel summit]

he was also going to just leave WCI after getting sanji back, but was convinced to ally with Bege to try and take out BM, and also by Sanji to help his family, despite Luffy not really caring about Sanji's family.

[dusty galleon]

All he wanted was sanji back in his crew, if that means crashing the party and saving the vinsmoke family, so be it

Though Luffy has matured a little lately

Like when he lets the Scabbards start the war on Kaido

[pastel summit]

yeah. I mean the point was he does stuff not just because he personally feels like it. If people ask, he'll help. It's not like he only acts on "I see bad, I punch bad"

@amber oar you agree that at some point in the story, the WG will either be taken down or reformed, yes? And you agree that Luffy will play a part in it?

[amber oar]

yes

[digital pawn]

@pastel summit then very seriously Luffy will probably end up dieing on laughtale or on his ship leaving that island once he's found the one piece but will still be smiling and most probably laughing it's been set up with recent chapters and it could be very sad. Way to take away the fun...

[pastel summit]

Luffy is already aware that WG = bad, so why would he not act on it? That's why I ask, what is going to reprompt him to fight this battle? Is he going to be asked? Or do you think the story of the void century will ignite a proper reason to start this?

[amber oar]

I don't think he's dying, regardless of the outcome

[pastel summit]

say this first then. Don't post shitposts and expect people to not say "don't shitpost" in the channel where shitposting is not encouraged. Go to #manga if you just want to say "luffy dies lmao!!!" with no context.

I also disagree that Luffy is dying 'cause I doubt it's gonna be that kind of story, and also the SBS jugol cited.

[digital pawn]

@pastel summit no

[amber oar]

So far, he hasn't been strong enough to do anything. That may change soon.
I won't claim to have an answer, could be the incident that happened at the Levely, could be the WG trying to take on him, or something else yet to be seen. My point is that he doesn't really need the backstory to act. Most of the time, he hasn't needed it.

[dusky acorn]

Look man, there's a time and place. Just respect the channel rules while you're in here. You could clearly see other people were the midst of having a very thoughtful discussion, was very disrespectful for you to come in like that. @digital pawn

[amber oar]

There's this too. The WG is about to make a move and can be either on Luffy or a friend of him

[pastel summit]

no, but it's also not a priority without it being brought to his attention. His priority right now, would be getting to Laugh Tale. Unless something in the middle of that prompts him to think "okay, getting to laugh tale isn't important right now, we have to fight the WG", and I think the prompt for that would be exactly what they learn there.

I also think we shouldn't discredit WB's words at the end of MF.

Considering he likely knew or had a good idea of what OP was.

and yeah, that's a real possibility. but I don't think necessarily it's a "mission", but it ties back to inherited will. He inherits the will of others. it's not like he'd be forced to act.

all the roger remnants knew the history, they didn't need to wait for someone else to do it, they could've acted, even in old age.

[wooden topaz]

since 1010 release, i wanna ask about why some fans who's doubting haoushoku of zoro until very last ? like those intimidate skill is some clue from oda right ?

[stray junco]

In the latest chapter, do you guys think big mom is absorbing the souls of her homies? Or maybe doing a combination attack based on the clouds forming?

[amber oar]

Intimidating isn't CoC, and also Zoro hadn't shown traits that other Conquerors had. Mainly that thing of naturally dragging people into following them (which even applies to Kata despite of not being a captain)

[dark palm]

I think she's combining prometheus with the clouds up above

[amber oar]

My first idea was that she was making another Zeus, but I don't see a point on it... maybe ditching the og Zeus to make an excuse for him going back to Nami?

[dark palm]

that'd be the reason, yeah

zeus is useless so she'll just combine prometheus with zeus because he's useful

[stray junco]

I think it’s be cool if she absorbed her soul fragments to become a way stronger version of big mom. Seems like oda enjoys his transformations but I wouldn’t be upset if it ended up that way

[brazen lantern]

Does bb have conqueror?

[silk acorn]

3 doctors potentially on the same floor 🤔

I wonder what oda has cooking up

[fallow egret]

Does law and hawkins have conquerors too. They sparked purple lightning when they clashed

[junior cape]

So Zoro is currently in the equivalent state of "bleeding out on the sidewalk", and they're all just gonna brush it off as a typical Zoro moment. Lmao I love it.

[brazen lantern]

They don't have it atleast I don't think so

[silk acorn]

I don’t think so. So far the only ones at the rooftop with conquerors are Kaido, Luffy, Kidd and Zoro

And BM

[junior cape]

But also Kaido believes zoro does have CoC haki, as it is forcefully imparting your will on others.

Due to his Asura moveset

Which does make sense

[fallow egret]

Does this make law the only D without coc? Or does garp not have it either

[junior cape]

Asura isn't real, the only reason people are affected by it is because Zoro forces them to think it's real.

He has a hyper-specialized version of conquerors haki if at all

[worldly warren]

does this the scabbards have it too? Since they were able to cut Kaido

[brazen lantern]

I don't think Saul had it and bb is not Confirmed user I think

[amber oar]

Zoro has three modes. Being lost, being badass, and being bleeding out on the sidewalk

[junior cape]

No, it's been shown that you can break Kaido's scales with armament alone, as done by Oden. Guy had no conquerors, and he still did it.

[amber oar]

Oden had CoC

[junior cape]

The last 2 tend to happen in close succession

[junior cape]

Where?

[amber oar]

When Luffy activated CoC while inconscious, after Kaido thunderclapped him, Ashura said that was "Oden's jutsu"

[fallow egret]

I would love to see more tag team fight against kaido but seems like a 1v1 with luffy and kaido from here

[worldly warren]

The one thing I don't understand is Law's motivation to help the strawhats. Like wasn't his main goal of the alliance to take out a yonko? Meaning he wants to be a yonko right? If Luffy beats Kaido and Kidd beats Big Mom (assumptions) then where does that leave Law?

[opaque sluice]

do yall think this is gonna be 5 acts?

[fallow egret]

Nah law just wanted doflamingo to fight kaido

[amber oar]

A few chapters ago there was a scene with Law examining a Poneglyph hidden in Onigashima (not the Road). And he says he wants to figure out what the will of D means

[silk acorn]

Nope

[amber oar]

Not anymore

[junior cape]

Ah, forgot about that, but we never saw him use it, so maybe he didn't know he had it.

[silk acorn]

I think oda wants to rush it ngl

[junior cape]

Sorta like pre-timeskip luffy

[amber oar]

I mean, if Ashura recognized the power is because Oden did use it. Though yeah, probably he didn't have it fully developed - not at the level Roger, WB, and now Kaido and Luffy showed

[amber oar]

god, it feels so satisfying to name Luffy among those behemoths. Our boy has grown so much

[junior cape]

Yeah. He definitely did not have it at that level, as he was shocked when he saw it

Straight up, he saw it and was literally blown away

[fallow egret]

Looks to me luffy will transform to g5 and end kaido alr

[wooden topaz]

he just escaped from death so many times, that make people get stronger easily right ?

[junior cape]

I don't think so. I do get that this is THE hardest fight yet, and more strength is needed, but I dont think the powerup curve will be quite that steep here.

[ionic peak]

the ashura zoro also coated with conqueror haki ?

[amber oar]

maybe but not consciously

[junior cape]

Explains how he beat Kaku

[wooden topaz]

i think G4 with coc is more than enough to take down kaido...

[ionic peak]

ahh

[junior cape]

Yeah

But hey if Oda's willing to go gear 5 I'm down with it

I want beatdowns above all else

[amber oar]

I don't know how it could look, then again, I didn't know how gear 4 could look

[fallow egret]

Also its pretty impressive law took on thunder bagua full on and remained concious

[junior cape]

Yeah

[wooden topaz]

or maybe kaido just weakest than before...

[gritty barn]

Now that I think about it, coating oneself in Conqueror's haki is a pretty good explanation of how Oden survived the boiling oil for as long as he did.

[junior cape]

IF BM and Kaido meet again, I think they'll infighting just a bit, for getting in each other's way

[gritty barn]

As well as how Whitebeard, Kaido, and Big Mom were all seemingly untouchable

[junior cape]

Holy shit yeah

Explains so much

[tulip jungle]

when slicing Monet, Zoro didn't use haki so he didn't kill her. but I think the true reason is he actually used CoC on her unconsciously and that's why she couldn't use her logia

[zinc iris]

monet was scared shitless by the fact she could have easily died in a gruesome way then and there if zoro just chose to use a modicum of armament

[leaden mountain]

Ok based on the latest chapter. What do you think prometheus asked for of Big mom?

[silver violet]

I think to give him more power or like he wanted Zeus Soul to be taken and make Prometheus more powerful

[leaden mountain]

It looked like his soul is being transferred into the clouds to make a second zeus.. 🤔

[silver violet]

Hmmmm

I wish sensei Oda made a chapter on Blackbeard invading Whole cake island

[sleek seal]

i still dont get it.. isnt the "coating" just advanced armament, the one that hyogoro taught luffy, which happens to be the same one that rayleigh uses?

[royal solar]

I think Prometheus will ask to "eat" Zeus' soul. But I have been wondering, can Prometheus' soul be the soul of Mother Carmel? , and what if Prometheus/Carmel guided/manipulated Big Mom since then.

[rugged thistle]

Chapter 1010 was insane

[pure raven]

I told yall zoro got that coq

[worthy breach]

to my opinion, coating haki is basically including your inner energy and infuse it with your body which is basically an armament haki. But what luffy doing now is even beyond coating. Its more like blowing up a deodorant which has a comprssed air, that is, once useful and can be deadly in some cases and now its blown up and considered as nothing more than deadly. But what I didnt get here is how conqueors haki can improve armament (or observation if thats possible)?

[slim hull]

The only way sanji staying in the monster trio is if he got coc too🙈

[leaden mountain]

Mindblow.... Incoming.

[eager remnant]

@dire veldt in this game I play there's a boss fight where you're the goon of an NPC who's fighting said boss and his goons in an arena. Long story short, the audience's cheers give buffs, so the more of his goons you kill and the more you damage him the stronger your team gets, and the more the boss damages your NPC the stronger his team gets. My theory is that CoC works like that, since it functions on willpower the more confident you are in yourself the stronger you get, and the more insecure the weaker. Thus Luffy, seeing everyone hurt Kaido, is growing more confident by the second and thus stronger, as we've seen, and Kaido, being hurt by Luffy, will doubt himself and start dealing less and less damage

[sand flicker]

Zoro getting coq. Zoro the pirate hunter. Zoro’s goal to be the strongest swordsman. All this foreshadowing is going to lead to the greatest fight Luffy will have to endure. Eventually Zoro and Luffy are going to clash, possibly marking the end of the straw hats. I imagine it’s going to a be a rivalry that matches Whitebeard and Gol D Rodger.

[cyan berry]

that would ruin both zoro and luffy's characters and goes against the entire story up to this point.

[calm ivy]

zo Zoro gonna get healed by Marco and maybe duo fight Zoro & Marco vs King & Queen?

[cyan berry]

Both Roger and Rayleigh had CoC, but never once did they clash or go against each other or whatever. Rayleigh still had the greatest respect for his captain even after he died

[opaque sluice]

Does the clouds thing mean that there could be a luffy kaido yonko clash coming soon

[craggy pumice]

no, it means that Big Mom made a new clouds homie and probably that the moon is in sight so the minks can use sulong again

[regal badge]

i think it could be both options, like when shanks went to WB and the clouds did break, but in less scale, and also, if BM did a new homie, should it be like less powerfull than zeus? or it doesnt matter?

[craggy pumice]

doesnt really matter right now yeah

[tawdry bramble]

New Gear 4th coated in conquerors Haki. Quick flashback to him trying a form that didn’t work with regular haki.

[fast saffron]

Incoming a tornado homie!

[azure dagger]

I feel. Rn it’s more zoro may have COQ and didn’t realize just like with rayleigh the vice captain having it

[zinc iris]

kaido wondering makes me suspect that it can be just that zoro's sheer power was enough to match the Conqueror trick

[azure dagger]

Either way he left tangible proof of his power. He left a scar on kaido

It was probably just his technique using a similar method unknowingly

[zinc iris]

I'm not particularly thrilled by the use of conqueror this chapter because it seems the same misstep Naruto did

by wanting an underdog story but also making extremely decesive to have inborn powers thus undercutting the theme

[azure dagger]

Hmmm i don’t think so. They’re finally using coq with a higher level like armament and observation. And finally we’re getting some real informations bout haki

That’s true!!

[zinc iris]

I mean the conceptual problem of a story that wants underdogs in a chosen path to succeed because they have the right determination and mindset allowing them to grow past the bigh shots of this era
then now we have that you either are born with the cool power or never amount to shit

[pastel summit]

I'm just scared it's going to be what people thought haki was going to. undercut devil fruit abilities and devil fruit fights, and fights just become haki contests. Feels like Luffy's DF abilities are pointless with this new tech.

[zinc iris]

haki existed so everyone could compete even without making the jackpot at the DF lottery, but now you have to win the Conqueror lottery

[dark palm]

No, now we have two lotteries

[pastel summit]

I'm already thinking about what a Luffy vs BB fight would look like, with this new ability.

[prisma vault]

Does anyone else think shanks will be waiting at raftel to stop luffy

[dark palm]

Luffy vs BB would probably return to devil fruits

That’s what I got from the conq reveal this chapter

[weak arrow]

No because Shanks doesn’t know how to get there

[pastel summit]

but then why would Luffy not use this very clearly superior ability?

[dark palm]

I mean, he could, it could also just be something that isn’t enough

[zinc iris]

luffy will use this ability because touching BB is a bad idea

[dark palm]

Luffy will probably awaken at some point

[zinc iris]

it's still a qualitative maneuver, BB's DF requires you to be able to hit him without making contact

so it's about the usual power interactions rather than power level

[pastel summit]

yeah exactly. It feels like, the whole fight is made pretty simple with this. BB's power was that he could rob you of your DF by touching you. So unless he can absorb haki ( ), then this bypasses that. even the gura gura. 'cause I assume this works just as well defensively as it does offensively.

[zinc iris]

if anything there is already a set up on BB's flaw being his conviction everything relies on df powers

[weak arrow]

Just using advanced CoA as a barrier would have done this, no CoC coating needed.

[zinc iris]

it's not even that he doesn't use them masterfully as he's not a logia shitter like enel, but rather that he still sees them as the massive boost that only matters

[dark palm]

Blackbeard is also open to a potential third power of his own

[pastel summit]

but the barrier for adv. coa was not that huge.

[zinc iris]

and so to win he's hoarding powerful DFs

[prisma vault]

We didn't think shanks would waltz into the center of mariejoise to talk to the most mysterious figure to date either tho. We know nothing of his adventures. Im just anticipating a major twist with shanks

[weak arrow]

All that matters is there being a barrier, not really how big it is.

[azure dagger]

Regardless of details on progression. I will say this. I’ve read hundreds of manga and One piece had the most simple yet greatest plot of them and i love it

[pastel summit]

juba, that's what I'm scared of. I think the best solution is possibly BB himself being able to use this ability as well, but then it becomes a haki fight.

[azure dagger]

Shanks is probably a higher figure by birth

[zinc iris]

shanks is keeping track on BB, so maybe he's onto the fact that he's taking after Rocks

[azure dagger]

BB is maybe rocks kid?

[dark palm]

Best solution is having a third long range devil fruit that punishes luffy for using his ability

[zinc iris]

in a way BB doesn't really need to be an expert in haki because the sheer power of his dfs makes him strong enough offensively

[pastel summit]

juba has jumped on the BB getting Kaido's DF train

[zinc iris]

but then again his plan to win is to just rob others of DF abilities as if they become helpeless without them, which seems a character flaw

[dark palm]

Anything but that

What IM thinking, and this isn’t a meme...

[pastel summit]

several long range abilities

[dark palm]

I’ll just throw some names out, ya know

Kelly funk

Sanjuan wolf

[zinc iris]

he doesn't really need the conqueror trick when he can quake punch

[pastel summit]

I mean, that's not really long range? Like, BB's range increases, but I thought you meant long range as in, BB himself is not making direct contact.

[dark palm]

I did lol I just wanted to throw that out there

Let it be known

It’s still long range though by proxy of his limbs being longer

Something like Mr. 5 though would be an excellent third fruit

[zinc iris]

I'm pretty confident his third df would be a zoan

[jovial lance]

wait so zoro has conquerors haki now?

[zinc iris]

to make the trifecta

[dark palm]

If it’s a zoan, do ya think it’s a mythical?

[zinc iris]

almost surely

[pastel summit]

would that even work though? Sanjuan's body doesn't have the yami or gura gura, and the jacket fruit works more like a mind takeover

[zinc iris]

BB wants "powerful" DFs, it's his path to power

[wooden topaz]

i'm pretty sure oda make zoro looks like reyleigh character

[jovial lance]

yeah

[zinc iris]

seems so banal

[zinc iris]

so it's either an ancient but more likely a mythical zoan, the question is which one?

[dark palm]

I mean, the user is still transforming into a jacket.

But yeah, mythical zoan... Sphinx maybe? I dunno

Seems like a crapshoot, we’ll just have to wait

[zinc iris]

it should be something with some great effect

there's always the option of the cerberus lol

goes well with the fact that it's a hellhound

[dark palm]

[cyan berry]

just give blackbeard the jacket fruit

[pastel summit]

A zoan would be the best way, but I'm still scared of the concept of 1 person having 3 abilities, each with their own nuances, and oda writing out all those powers in a single fight. Unless we get like, BB stage 1, BB stage 2 or something.

[zinc iris]

of course BB goes phases

[pastel summit]

what's a final boss fight without phases

[dark palm]

I think it’d be phases, but each phase uses both the new one and the prior ones

What are the odds we get a POV mini-arc of a different faction than the strawhats after wano

Such as the revos or bb pirates

[pastel summit]

low I think. I think we'll see snippets until everything connects.

[pure raven]

Newspaper odds are higher

[dark palm]

I think if Sabo truly is captured

it raises the chance of a dragon focused thing substantially

Since I don’t think Luffy will figure out

[pure raven]

Define mini arc in this case

[zinc iris]

tako tako no mi model cthulhu

[dark palm]

Cthulhu spawning darkness and tsunamis lol

Would be cool

[novel scroll]

So this is how Luffy gonna beat Akainu and BB

[zinc iris]

it's sad however that you had to win the haki lottery to stand a chance against the df lottery

so much for badassery

[ancient vault]

So u think its gonna be a DF we've seen before and not a completely new one?

[dark palm]

That’s life baby

[dark palm]

No, I really don’t know

[zinc iris]

there's a problem when you're undercutting your own theme

[dark palm]

I think as a person becomes stronger and stronger, they have access to more devil fruits

[ancient vault]

BLACKBEARD ACT 2 FAILS

[ancient vault]

What

[dark palm]

By proxy of having more influence to purchase/find

[ancient vault]

So basically ppl like Kaido or WB just didnt try it and thats why they didnt find out?

oh wait u mean to the fruits not the power

[dark palm]

And I think we’re jumping to conclusions a bit... we’ll just see

Talking about things so far ahead like Blackbeard vs luffy

If you want a badass, Blackbeard is your man

[zinc iris]

like turns out now zoro is not going from zero to hero, if he wasn't born with coc he would have never succeded by just becoming stronger

[rare rose]

I just realize kaido still hasn't used his awakening form....

[zinc iris]

df lottery

also will turn out to have coc too to stand a chance or will fade into obscurity?

[dark palm]

https://tenor.com/view/frantic-studying-reading-exams-exams-week-gif-7530000

Me rereading that sentence 15 times

[zinc iris]

i was quoting a post about Law but disappeared

[dark palm]

But yeah, folks who win these perceived lotteries being over-represented at the top of the world isn’t that crazy to me. And then you have people like Blackbeard, someone who won a different sort of lottery

And I don’t think Zoro having CoC undermines his character like you’re suggesting it does

[pastel summit]

feels less like "over-represented" and more like "required to be" I think is the issue.

[ancient vault]

Elaborate

[dark palm]

He just means that we have no contrary examples of folks without A. Haoshoku or B. Insane devil fruits

[ancient vault]

ahh I see

[pastel summit]

yeah. There's Garp? I guess.

[dark palm]

I’d wager garp doesn’t have it

He would have used it vs chinjao

[pastel summit]

yeah that's my point.

[dark palm]

Ik I’m agreeing

[ancient vault]

So garp no CoC?

or no "advanced" technique

[pastel summit]

probably not, nah. No CoC.

[dark palm]

Hope green bull is one

Sanji honestly

A lot of Blackbeard’s crew I bet

[ancient vault]

someone that doesnt have either?

[dark palm]

Yep

[ancient vault]

Would you count fujitoras as an insane DF?

[dark palm]

Yeah.

[tired osprey]

I want to see CoC coated Garp fists

[dark palm]

One of the more broken fruits in the series lol

Vista and Mihawk maybe

[pastel summit]

I was happier when I thought the WB Roger clash was just purely CoA.

[tired osprey]

we can coc coat everything now

[dark palm]

I always sorta figured this would happen

[tired osprey]

Kid and Hancock with coc coating would be cool

[ancient vault]

"coby can solo hancock"

[dark palm]

CoC having some advanced legitimate application and it getting a bunch of blow back

Since people are sick of chosen one stuff

[tired osprey]

coc coat vs coa coat

[pastel summit]

is it... invalid criticism? Not sure what you mean here. I think it's perfectly fine for people to be disappointed with this kind of plot development. You're free to like it. Personally, I think standalone, it looks like a cool way to fight.

but I just don't like the possible future plot implications it can have.

[dark palm]

I didn’t mean anything by it, i was purely observing

[pastel summit]

I preferred the more symbolic nature of CoC as opposed to it having some super epic omega ultra cool secret hidden use.

[tired osprey]

i dont think theres any real implications other than "there's levels to this shit" and all its mean to do is to create a higher "power level"

[dark palm]

If people don’t like it they don’t like it

Oda could literally make the entire wano arc a katakuri future sight and I’d still probably defend it

[pastel summit]

juba forever remains the heads to my tails.

[dark palm]

But i still think we should wait on this

Like, speculating over how this will potentially change Blackbeard vs Luffy is mad future tripping. I just want a damn explanation first lol

What I HOPE for is that it has a draw back

Now that’d be cool

Something that blindsides luffy without him expecting it

Due to him getting cocky with this bloom

[tired osprey]

really? im kind of sick of luffy having drawbacks all the time

[pastel summit]

do you mean, a general drawback, or a drawback specific to luffy that he then overcomes?

[dark palm]

General drawback to CoC

[pastel summit]

didn't really seem like WB or Roger had one, if they fought for 3 days. or it was incredibly insignificant for the both of them.

[tired osprey]

maybe if luffy creates a coc coat based gear form, otherwise... nah

[dark palm]

Could have been that they only used it on that first strike

Or in choice times

[pastel summit]

Isn't it kinda implied roger used the same tech on oden? 'cause of the streak or w/e.

[tired osprey]

sounds like a video game drawback

[dark palm]

I mean, he wanted to test Oden

[dark palm]

The draw back isn’t that they can only use it at certain times, it’s that it’s so taxing they have to choose when to use it

I honestly don’t see another way about this, considering luffy would just exclusively use it for the rest of the story

[worldly anvil]

also I feels like if Oden lost to Young Kaido, then I feels like Roger would destroy Oden if he use CoC

[pastel summit]

but yeah. idk. It is definitely 100% changing how people think about Luffy vs BB though. I don't see how that's tripping. Even Luffy learning the advanced CoA changed that fight, learning future sight also changed that fight. It's like the endgame fight, so it'd obviously be a culmination of what Luffy has learned up to that point, and either it not being enough and learning something new (like you suggested earlier, potentially awakening), or it being enough to overcome the wall of BB.

[ancient vault]

Well he did

[dark palm]

Nah, when I say future tripping i mean worrying that it’ll ruin the fight in some way

When we don’t even know how it properly works

[pure raven]

it’s that it’s so taxing they have to choose when to use it
Makes me wonder if Kaido is just really used to it or has enough control of it that he doesn't use much when doing a Thunder Bagua.

[zinc iris]

this

[pure raven]

Considering how much he tried to use it in this fight alone

[zinc iris]

to quote myself above,

haki existed so everyone could compete even without making the jackpot at the DF lottery, but now you have to win the Conqueror lottery

[dark palm]

Presumably kaido would have a much better control than a luffy who just learned it

[zinc iris]

it's a power level tied to a lottery however, it's not something that can be potentially be reached with training as previously established you either are born with CoC or no
but before this it was just a cool badge, now it's something that is required to be at the top instead of just giving an edge

[pastel summit]

yeah, you're right juba. We'll have to see if there is a really significant drawback to overusing it. but doesn't luffy kind of imply the secret behind Kaido's power is that technique? doesn't seem like kaido is facing any significant drawbacks. But he could just not be using it that often. and in the case of "Kaido just has better control", then it still kinda boils down to it being a barrier luffy has to overcome.

because that's still the case for G4 too. The drawback is overcome by haki control. Luffy will never be able to completely eliminate the drawback to that ability either. It's still "use too much haki it runs out". that's a universal haki drawback.

[weak arrow]

Just pray in the volume release that it’s changed to advanced CoA coating

[dark palm]

Yeah, the better explanation would be him just not using it in certain cases, while still using it for stuff like that rag-naraku hit

You gonna pray he changes the chapter name too?

[weak arrow]

Nah that can be for Zoro’s part

[ancient vault]

Infinite haki

[dark palm]

This whole thing reeks a bit of chapter 919, in that people freaked out and then got pacified

[weak arrow]

Nah

[exotic echo]

This is a valid concern. Wondering what can change as we learn more about CoC, because this does totally reframe what we previously thought about the ability. Hopefully it's polished in a way that leaves most of us satisfied

[dark palm]

Yah, cause it’s a lot of preconceived notions without proper explanation

[pastel summit]

so juba. you imagine this is going to have a drawback in a similar capacity to G4 for example? overuse = can't use haki for X time? And then that ties into Yamato saving Luffy or something?

[weak arrow]

I mean it’s an observation by Luffy and it’s confirmed by Kaido

[sand sail]

I'm sure that'll be the case, choc

[dark palm]

Potentially, but I think the drawback might manifest in a different way

[pastel summit]

or do you imagine more of a physical drawback? Like the reject dial or something.

[sand sail]

Haki is finite, so there's no way Luffy will be able to keep the coating up indefinitely at the least

[dark palm]

One angle is exhausting haki, sure. But I think we could go more abstract

What about... lifespan

[pastel summit]

but it really depends on how long he can keep up the coating and how taxing it is. Like for example, people like Shanks or Roger must've used this ability to keep up, right? So do you imagine they just had to use it incredibly sparingly? Luffy to date is the only person we've seen actually succumb to this "haki is finite" drawback, and that's seemingly because G4 is like a half-body coating that he uses for a prolonged period of time.

as opposed to instantaneous use like pretty much everyone else does.

[dark palm]

I think they’d have to use it sparingly, yes

[ancient vault]

if luffy coats his entire body in this new Haki form does that mean ppl cant touch him anymore? Like literally cant make contact

[dark palm]

I think I’d be less happy with it if the draw back was just another haki exhaustion thing

[pure raven]

Instead of this, I think it could just be more of a general drawback for the whole body and the health of the user. Not necessarily a "lifespan", just makes the user physically weaker if that makes sense. And I only say this because the other 2 people we saw use it ended up getting a deadly disease and were getting weaker physically because of them.

[dark palm]

Since that’d be redundant with g4

[lucid flare]

@everyone debate me

[pastel summit]

possibly. I imagine if not even the force of Kaido's club could break through it, it's either impossible or requires some insane force to break through.

[dark palm]

Like, a decline in nervous system or something Thomas?

[worthy breach]

i think people would touch him but with lesser damage

[pure raven]

Yeah

[dark palm]

That’s probably too abstract

[ancient vault]

Imagine that ends up being rogers disease lol

[dark palm]

I like it though

[sand sail]

@lucid flare Don't try to ping everyone in the server please

[zinc iris]

maybe it's like smash brosh and grabs work

[pure raven]

It's extremely out there but its a cool drawback lol

[weak arrow]

It’ll explain why yonko don’t meet up often and fight otherwise they’ll just end up killing them selves

[pastel summit]

roger and wb dying due to overuse of conqueror's. You could tie it back to WB getting a heart attack trying to use it in MF.

[dark palm]

Yeah

[pure raven]

Sure

[dark palm]

And it would also be a cool way to display resolve

[pure raven]

What if Roger and Whitebeard's illnesses were related to an overuse of conqueror's haki?

[sand sail]

This is a danger in general, tho

[dark palm]

Like, use of will

[ancient vault]

was said before

[sand sail]

If two Emperors meet and actually want to duke it out to a result, odds are one is dying anyway

[dark palm]

Trading your own life for an extension of your will

In order to achieve power

[ancient vault]

[sand sail]

That's an interesting potential mechanic

[ancient vault]

What about Kaido then?

[pure raven]

Kaido is Kaido

[dark palm]

I think kaido hasn’t been using it much

[lucid flare]

if big mom and kaido fall who will become yonko?

[ancient vault]

Would that end up killing him?

[dark palm]

Eventually, if he was dumb about it

[ancient vault]

or is he immune to it like the other stuff?

[sand sail]

Kaido never has to use it

[pastel summit]

But then idk how much I like the idea if you consider Crocus' purpose on Roger's crew. Unless Roger himself was just... unable to determine that each time he used it his health deteriorated?

[sand sail]

So if it does do this life draining, he wouldn't be immune, he'd just never have to worry about it

Roger was living his life on fast mode, Crocus would've been there to mitigate the effects

[dark palm]

I mean, how would roger determine it really? Especially if he got sick from overuse in his youth considering his past

With god valley and such

Probably went to crocus and said “hey, keep me alive as long as possible”

[sand sail]

And he wouldn't have stopped using it either way

^

He was that kind of dude

[pastel summit]

Right, but he used it twice in that brief exchange we saw against WB's crew. If it had negative effects to the point where he was dying in a yr, he should've noticed, right?

[ancient vault]

"I pay good" --> The pay: One Piece

[pure raven]

Roger really lived life on the fast lane

[dark palm]

I mean, he did say it was potentially his last battle with whitebeard

[pure raven]

^

[dark palm]

And we didn’t really see much of the negative effects of his illness in general

[pastel summit]

well he didn't intend on really fighting anyone after that. He was going after the final island

[dark palm]

Just like, him coughing in a room once

[ancient vault]

Do you think Rayleigh had it?

[pure raven]

I guess Rayleigh would be a counterexample to trading lifespan?

Rayleigh might not be able to do it

Since it seems like its a lottery

[pastel summit]

I mean, I like the idea in a vacuum that overusing it has health consequences, I just don't know if it really fits with roger's situation.

[ancient vault]

I dont like the idea of lottery

[sand sail]

Nah, that was just to Whitebeard specifically, I'm sure he anticipated a few more fights after

But yeh, if they only use it sparingly

[ancient vault]

lottery on lottery

[sand sail]

I can see why it wouldn't be immediately noticeable tbh

Especially if it takes years of use to actually whittle down your health, as opposed to gear 2nd

Which has those immediate negative effects

[zinc iris]

roger unknowingly had conqueror coat on all his life

[pure raven]

Including oneself perhaps?

[pastel summit]

I guess, but you would at least feel something, if you're almost dying to it, right? and if we put Roger and WB in the same boat of their health problems came down to overuse of CoC, WB's effects were a lot worse than Roger's, but Roger died earlier due to it.

[sand sail]

Not necessarily until it's far too late, potentially

[gilded blade]

My biggest problem with that theory is, wb still lived an absurdly long time, and kept a lot of his strength, same thing with other old top tiers like garp goku and rayleigh

[dark palm]

Could also be similar to aids, in that it weakens the immune system to anything.

[sand sail]

Which isn't uncommon with fatal diseases unfortunately in general, they may have just never put it together until they'd gotten to a point where they were already dead for sure

But then, also, if they'd known they would never have stopped using it anyway

[ancient vault]

Red: Confirmed to have it
Blue: Probably have it
Pink: Dont have it

Idk about the rest tbh

Do you think this is accurate?

[gilded blade]

Pink dont have it? What?

[dark palm]

Don’t think kid has it

[sand sail]

To be fair, it's not like anyone said they had no idea about how those two died or what the disease were, right?

[pure raven]

This is what I was thinking of but couldn't phrase it. Something that makes the body more vulnerable the more its used.

[gilded blade]

Kaido said he did

[dark palm]

Not advanced

[ancient vault]

U mean oden?

[gilded blade]

Nope both.

[dark palm]

Kaido just said kid had conq

We’re talking about the advanced conq in this chapter

[ancient vault]

what about zoro?

[pastel summit]

Are we assuming it's a lottery within a lottery? Or was Kaido's little thing just reaffirming once again, that only a few people have conqueror's haki?

[ancient vault]

[gilded blade]

Right but still, katakuri and doflamingo wouldnt have advanced?

[ancient vault]

Yes they dont. If they had they wouldve used it. Theyre well beyond their prime too or in their prime at least

[dark palm]

I think that it’s less a lottery and more that among CoC users only a select get the opportunity to awaken it

[gilded blade]

I mean katakuri's coa wasnt anything to scoff at sure, but stuff like buzzcut mochi i disagree is strictly coa

[zinc iris]

conqueror coat?
what if sengoku's shockwave palm thusts were conqueror coat instead of the df

[pastel summit]

There's still a lot of questions about it. Personally I don't think it's a lottery within a lottery, but something that could only be used by people with mastery over both CoC and CoA.

[dark palm]

Either by lifelong training or bloom

[pure raven]

Ace probably didn't have it. Sengoku I could see him having it due to the lack of scenes we've seen him use it to just knock out people, hell throw Boa in too since we're at it.

[dark palm]

That’s another angle yeah

[pastel summit]

which makes me wonder if there's something similar with CoO and CoC.

[sand sail]

I want it to be what Sengoku uses in his shockwaves

[ancient vault]

Thats why I didnt do anything to him. idk about him. The ones I've squared im 99% sure

[dark palm]

Future sight being that would be cool but I doubt it

[gilded blade]

I mean luffy clashed with kats haki at one point and he literally ended up blowing on his hands,

[hollow grotto]

ahh, that'd be deadly

[pure raven]

which lines up with Rayleigh's comments on conqueror's haki

[dark palm]

Like, advanced future sight

[ancient vault]

Why ace not?

[visual merlin]

I agree with this yea

[pastel summit]

Future sight is a bit too plain lol. It's just regular observation but better

[gilded blade]

Uhhhh

[dark palm]

Hmm

[sand sail]

Advanced armament is basically the same thing

[dark palm]

Idk armament flowing into something and exploding it is different

[sand sail]

Since it's just pouring as much armament as you can to one spot rofl

[gilded blade]

Katakuri took his entire life to master fs, just cause luffy did it in 13 hours is a bit of a lowball for kat

[zinc iris]

we can save the morality of this story by having characters being wrong about conq being only inborn and instead attainable with great effort by the plebs

[visual merlin]

Besides the dudes in blue and red I think everyone else lacks the ability

[sand sail]

Well it's all a progression, you just go from a general coating to concentrating everything to one spot

And then letting that flow into whatever you're hitting

[dark palm]

Yeah but what choc is saying is that OBS normally is already future sight basically

[pastel summit]

yeah, I'm saying the "advanced conquerors" could be a combination of mastery over armament AND mastery over conquerors. Which could lead into there being a similar ability for people with mastery over observation and mastery over conquerors.

[dark palm]

My head

[gilded blade]

But it's not

[pure raven]

He's dead . On a serious note, I don't have a real reason, I'm just spit balling based on how we've seen people use it, and because Ace didn't seem like a guy to use haki a lot.

[pure raven]

The 'chosen ones' narrative is really frustrating but I can't see how else only 15 known people would have it in such a large world.

[gilded blade]

Actual obs doesnt care about your focus or mental state, fs does

[pastel summit]

actual obs does as well

[sand sail]

Yes it does

[gilded blade]

Fs literally cannot be used at some points if you arent focused

[sand sail]

Yes, because it's observation haki

[dark palm]

It is, you’re sensing future emotions and projectiles

[sand sail]

Because you need to be calm and focused to use it

[pure raven]

normal Observation can't either

[visual merlin]

FS is just really good observation haki

[ancient vault]

well so didnt Luffy He could still have had the potential (im assuming only a few can do it)
But then again hes dead so doesnt really matter

[gilded blade]

No, not for normal CoO thats never been confirmed. Only for fs has it ever been stated you have to be calm

[pastel summit]

even in the stages of the story where it wasn't even called observation haki, oda still had that notion that the user needed to be calm in order to use it properly. Enel literally says it's why Satori lost.

because he lost control over his mantra due to not being in the right mental state.

[ancient vault]

Yeah

[sand sail]

Yes, it was.

[gilded blade]

Yea top tiers saying their subordinates are capable of xyz doesnt mean a whole lot

I mean doffy sure thought vergos haki was capable of stopping law

[sand sail]

What does that have to do with someone identifying the reason for losing tho?

[dark palm]

Damn guess he left oh well we can move on

[ancient vault]

LMFAO WHAT

[echo kayak]

@novel cloak

[pure raven]

Aw

I was late

[novel cloak]

😂

[pastel summit]

but yeah. It could be something like that. I'm not sure how it would manifest, because observation haki I feel has been expanded pretty well, whereas there was a lot of room for armament haki.

[dark palm]

Bottom line before I go to bed, if CoC has a crazy drawback like that I will be beyond satisfied

I want kaido to just start laughing as he gets up

While luffy feels some sharp pain in his chest

And just thinking about another advanced form of observation is giving me a headache

Maybe voat? lolz

[pure raven]

Madam Shyarly?

[pastel summit]

We'll see. Overconfidence causing a loss, only for Luffy to be saved, and then return to a 1vsX?

[dark palm]

With Yamato and whoever else

[pastel summit]

you think kid and killer can deal with BM?

[dark palm]

Not at all

I don’t have a clue how that will end

[sand sail]

They'll be getting some form of help

[pure raven]

Yamato will make a brief appearance

[pastel summit]

[sand sail]

They couldn't deal with her with everyone else on the roof lol

[pure raven]

Actually

[dark palm]

And I think big mom is making prometheus-Zeus with prometheus’s power

[sand sail]

No way she's not dropping into a group of enemies, I'm sure

[dark palm]

Out of kaido’s storm cloud

[pure raven]

Yamato helps Kid and Killer vs Big Mom

[dark palm]

So they’re sorta double hosed

[pure raven]

Luffy tells her to sod off

[night jewel]

Law stays with luffy so 1v1 theories die

[pastel summit]

I've already expressed why I don't like BM being dealt with by anyone outside of the SHs, but I guess Kid and Killer volunteering makes it a bit less worse, but I do wonder how they're going to permanently deal with her.

[night jewel]

cant really see kid and killer beat big mom, maybe kid uses CoC and manages to land some big hits on her atleast

[dark palm]

Kids gonna say some shit like “I gotta return that punch you gave me” and I’ll swoon

Hopefully with a big metal fist

[night jewel]

I think kid defeating big mom does what you wanted to be done with BB and BM, so i thought you would really like it lol

[pure raven]

I doubt we'll get a Promezeus

[night jewel]

not that i can see kid defeat big mom ofc

[ancient vault]

It'd be cool if prometheus starts eating the flameclouds

[dark palm]

I dunno, seems like a reasonable favor for Prometheus to ask

Just giving him zeus’s power

[pure raven]

Here's how I see it: Kid, Yamato and Killer manage to stop the storm from happening and isolate at least Prometheus from Big Mom, after she falls off she lands on the Queen Mama Chanter and the story goes from there some how.

[pastel summit]

it's a bit better since BM has actually fought them and done stuff to them, so there's at least something personal there. Just the idea of the fight that Luffy brought to Wano being dealt with by someone else. and what do you mean Arsal? Like, Kid defeating BM as a parallel to Luffy beating Kaido?

[night jewel]

yea

[pastel summit]

That'd be cool, I just doubt it'd happen. Unless Kid starts pulling off the same tech Luffy is doing.

[zinc iris]

i rather think promotheus asked for a replacement for zeus so BM is making a new coud homie

[dark palm]

What’s kid gonna do with all that metal

I think a replacement Zeus would be stranger than just fusing lightning with fire

[tame tendon]

So the real zeus is gonna dead?

[pastel summit]

you think he's going to jail her the same way he jailed zeus? Doubt that'd hold. Push her off? Could happen, but feels anticlimactic (coming from me, should say a lot).

[dark palm]

No

I figure she’d have to manually remove his soul

So I think he’ll just run to nami

[dark palm]

Both sound wrong... but you know what I could see

Kid killer combo attack

[night jewel]

I think kid will pull out the same technique, I think oda might have given him coc for this fight, can easily see oda use this opportunity to develop kid's strength in the same way as luffy or w/e

[dark palm]

Kid makes an arena for killer’s sonic waves to reflect off

[tame tendon]

Yeah, but removing soul means death right?

[dark palm]

And they just cycle that within

[dark palm]

I mean, if she can get to Zeus and remove his soul, but she’s quite far atm

[night jewel]

feel like kid and killer fighting big mom from that height is pretty unlikely, i think big mom will just make it to the island again next time we see her

[tame tendon]

So how BM could make a lightning fire homies? I thought she run out of soul rn

[night jewel]

she hasnt ran out of soul at all lol

no indication of anything such as that

[zinc iris]

I don't think she can really add properties to homies that aren't already part of their object

[pastel summit]

to be fair, she has been pretty reluctant to create new homies, instead going to extreme measures to get her old ones back, or being over reliant on them coming back.

[night jewel]

she did make a ton of homies already

[dark palm]

If she can homie-fy a hat sword thing, she can make Prometheus a lightning-fire ball

[pastel summit]

Not with her own soul.

[night jewel]

those were from her soul

i am pretty sure, lemme go find the panel

[pastel summit]

real fucking dogshit if they were, considering strong souls = stronger homies

and Nami and Carrot instantly broke out as soon as BM wasn't looking

[night jewel]

but the homies were perfectly fine later lol, they only distracted them for a bit

[tame tendon]

From what i know, prome, zeus and napoleon is a special homies made from BM soul

[sand sail]

Yeh, we don't see her gathering any souls, she just bursts into the room with a dozen new homies at least

[night jewel]

ah, i guess you can interpret it as " i will give you someone's life"

i remember the translation being different, but mb

[dark palm]

Could just be that she yanked some random guard

[pure raven]

Well I don't think it's far fetched that she probably store souls somewhere

[dark palm]

Yeah like Moria

[night jewel]

yea

[pure raven]

Don't think the candy slug homie made in WCI was made from her soul

[sand sail]

Eh, would've been okay if it was

Since that'd only be about a year she'd lose for her cake

[zinc iris]

she had a sword-hat cutom made and then animated it
if she could just grant any elemental power to her homies than what is the point of animating specific things, and also would go well beyond the scope of her DF

[pastel summit]

I think it'd be pretty underwhelming for homies from BM's own soul to be so... useless and really do nothing. Yeah, I think it's possible she stores souls somewhere and just carries it with her to create random stuff.

[night jewel]

but yea, regardless, she hasnt been reluctant to create more homies really

if you are talking about what she said to marco then I just think she meant " i dont want to waste anything on you" by that, and not " i cant afford to waste any soul weapons on you"

[pure raven]

Yeah they are small enough to be stored somewhere easily

[sand sail]

Not just small enough, but they last too

[night jewel]

still dont know what happened to the yokai homies, where she is storing them, if she is storing them that is

[tame tendon]

I thought she already use all of the soul at the brothel house

[night jewel]

no lol, no indication of that

[tame tendon]

And if she want to make more homies the options are, she use her own soul or takeback from zeus and give it to another stuff lol

[pastel summit]

no arsal, I'm talking about her going to Wano to retrieve Zeus instead of just making another Zeus

[sacred hawk]

So if Law and Zoro are going back down, then how about this:
Zoro vs. King
Sanji vs. Queen
Law vs. Perospero

Assuming Marco goes down.

[night jewel]

that doesnt really mean she doesnt want to make another homie

[lilac mirage]

can zoro still fight?

[fallen lintel]

They’re hurt real bad, if this is the case someone will need to heal their wounds

[tame tendon]

Luffy and yamato vs kaido?

[dark palm]

Reread a bit of her flashback, I think you’re right. Would be weird for her to suddenly combine two elements like that. Now I’ve lost my trail because I feel like merely making a replacement Zeus doesn’t really work either

[lilac mirage]

'tell everyone i've got this'

[tame tendon]

So who's yamato opponent then?

[heavy shuttle]

@sacred hawk Zoro is so out of the fight

[lilac mirage]

not sure, but i heard that she will tell momo about his DF which will help momo hold onigashima, preventing it from falling on capital

[heavy shuttle]

They can only have him go "this is it, all my bones are broken" so many times before it loses its meaning

[sacred hawk]

Given that Zoro is Zoro, I entirely expect him to somehow keep trucking

[zinc iris]

make it bigger and stronger by giving it more soul and use a bigger cloud

like the entire storm brewing over onigashima

[harsh latch]

I think she's just going to rain down fire like lightning. Too many ragnarok references for not to go with it imo.

[heavy shuttle]

There's the double attack he blocked.
The hit on kaido he said was suicide.
And an unblocked thunder bagua.

Those things needs to have a lasting impact. Or they mean nothing.

[ancient vault]

Probably wont have one lol

[heavy shuttle]

Narrative 101
Actions and words must have consequences

No stakes=no story

[ancient vault]

Im assuming ur talking about a scar?

[heavy shuttle]

@ancient vault I'm talking about zoro being out of the fight for the rest of wano

[lilac mirage]

how about law will be taking zoro to chopper, and he will use some magic now zoro is fine

[zinc iris]

no steaks

[heavy shuttle]

He was heroic AF. What he did counts. He should be able to rest a hero now

Let king fight like... Any other straw hat

[ancient vault]

no feats

[lilac mirage]

marco is also there

[ancient vault]

I think hes still fighting Orochi

[lyric dust]

orochi? how come

[zinc iris]

https://pm1.narvii.com/7369/70a82c90b414000708b46e8429ff1dbcbb3f8742r1-768-1206v2_hq.jpg

[ancient vault]

I think Zoro is gonna save Hiyori by awakening his CoC since he is unable to move (similar to Impel Down Luffy or FB ace etc.). Then shes gonna heal him and hes gonna be able to move a little bit better. Eventually they'll come across Orochi. Zoro is gonna defeat him get his revenge and then grant Hiyori to the kill she desires

[lyric dust]

ahhh

[zinc iris]

seems too trivial

[zinc iris]

also lol revenge

[ancient vault]

let characters say 10 thousands things
not one thing comes true

[zinc iris]

half of the raid is about how exacting revenge on orochi always was pointless

even the scabbards stopped giving a shit about him and just cut him down because he was in their way

[ancient vault]

Well. He needs to die anyways. Revenge or not his character is shit afterwards and "keep him locked up and force him to see wano grow" is a shit ending 🙂

[lyric dust]

yeah, kill his ass

[zinc iris]

well that he needs to is maybe an eventuality

but it has to become a necessity

[lyric dust]

honestly im down for hiyori or whoever to capture him then execute him publicly

[ancient vault]

yes I'd like that

[zinc iris]

like this shit doesn't fly because then wano learned nothing from the last 30 years

[ancient vault]

No its orochi noone cares

[zinc iris]

then a public execution is pointless

[ancient vault]

Just to flex

[lyric dust]

everyone cares about his death

they'll be rejoicing

[ancient vault]

but noone cares about him

[zinc iris]

actually no, we have the very recent chapters coming to the realization his death isn't that important

[lyric dust]

every 5 years we should see momo spitting on his grave

[zinc iris]

exacting revenge is nothing in comparison to save wano

[ancient vault]

They got better things to do because theyre needed somewhere else. Hiyori doesnt

But

I could also see Cp0 killing Orochi lol

[lyric dust]

inb4 hiyori seizes powerr and becomes a shit ruler feeding everyone SMILE fruits

[ancient vault]

lmao. Nah I think shes gonna be a good ruler. She has been taking care of ebisu town together with Denjiro

[lyric dust]

the most logical thing to do in that situation is get a sneak hit on jack as you're walking out of the room

[zinc iris]

it's this stuff
in terms of comeuppance jack himself deserves a lot of bad shit coming his way, but inuarashi is fighting him because jack needs to be stopped, not because he deserves a beating (which he does)

[ancient vault]

They couldve just jumped Jack there and quickyl defeated him lmao

[lyric dust]

thats what im saying man

[sand sail]

Nah, Jack's not a quick fight

And they were all still horribly injured

[lyric dust]

theres 7 of them there

[cyan berry]

[sand sail]

Yes, all wounded, several missing limbs, and no one powered up lmao

[ancient vault]

Hes half dead. Scabbards are half dead

8 half dead scabbards vs 1 half dead jack. Pretty sure they win

[sand sail]

And Jack's been resting a lot longer with a lot less damage

[zinc iris]

awakened jack >>>>

[sand sail]

7, swrml

[ancient vault]

why 7?

[lyric dust]

ashura and the window

[sand sail]

No Kanjuro, no Oden, and I wanna say someone else was missing

[ancient vault]

Ashura is gone
9 - 1 = 8
Im counting izo

[lyric dust]

where is izo?

[sand sail]

Oh was this after Ashura left?

[lyric dust]

yeah, it was right after the explosion

[sand sail]

Then yeah, 7 should be about right

Unless i'm adding Oden in extra and he was never counted lol

[zinc iris]

yeah you're doing that lol

it's 9 scabbards (izo subbed in kanjuro's place), ashura went out of the window with fake oden
so it's 8 of them when jack barges in

[frozen prairie]

I agree fully and this is an important observation. The story of One Piece doesn't reward characters for seeking revenge, even if its revenge against someone that sorta deserves it.

[ancient vault]

???
Theyre 9 ppl. I just replaced Kanjuro with Izo

Ashura is gone. So its 8

How tf do u end up with 7

[sand sail]

I just explained?

lmao

[ancient vault]

What does oden have to do with this???

[frozen prairie]

9 scabbards, Ashura gets blown up out the window, Dog stays behind to fight Jack, Raizo stays behind to fight the other ninja

[sand sail]

I just explained?

[frozen prairie]

We're down to 6 in the group

[zinc iris]

I think each scabbard will stay behind one by one facing a certain enemy to let the others continue until kin'emon alone gets to yamato and momo

[ancient vault]

Oden is dead bro. Idk if u got the message.
Why are you even counting oden?
Theyre 9 people in the room before Jack appeared. Even without Kanjuro or "Oden".
Ashura left.
So theyre 8 people in this panel

They wouldve jumped jack 8vs1

[zinc iris]

why you quoting me on that pic for this

[ancient vault]

I didnt mean to ping u. Jsut for reference for the pic

So theyre 8 people in this panel

Anyway

[ancient vault]

I get this point but I still honestly think Orochi deserves to die. Where else is his character supposed to go?

[zinc iris]

I think deservedness is something that goes beside doing the right thing

murder doesn't stop being murder just because you have a really good motive

[ancient vault]

[zinc iris]

if they fight to the death because the conflict is inevitable then so be it, but if he gets defeated and is alive at the end then you should just imprison him

[ancient vault]

Thats such a shit ending

[zinc iris]

[ancient vault]

I could see Cp0 just killing him tho

They already declared him as dead. They dont need him anymore so theyre gonna get rid of him since hes making trouble

[zinc iris]

you gotta learn something from this, continuing the spectacle of murdering the kurozumi is what ruined wano the last 3 decades

at some point you just gotta let go of revenge and stick to what matters

[ancient vault]

If they had ppl like orochi in the clan i mgiht just close my eyes everytime it happens

[ancient vault]

He could be leaking that he had a deal with them, endangering the WG's status

[zinc iris]

then the next kanjuro and orochi that got wronged for nothing will destroy the country again by pulling in another kaido

this shit has to be stopped instead of giving in to the loop of revenge

[ancient vault]

Noones blaming kurozomi. Im blaming orochi himself. They can make clear that Kurozomi can be good too with Kurozomi Tama or sth

I get your revenge argument. But I honestly cant get behind the shit ending of him just being imprisoned after everything hes done

[sand sail]

Yes, we'd cleared up that confusion already

[zinc iris]

Doflamingo was comparably evil, but I don't see anyone arguing Dressrosa's problem being he survived in the end

[sand sail]

See, that's the case because no one really wanted Doflamingo dead except Law. And even then, he was content in just toppling him

With Orochi, there's a whole country of disenfranchised citizens who actually want his head it seems

[ancient vault]

^

[zinc iris]

rebecca wanted the mera mera to kill him

[sand sail]

Yeh I'm sure many people wanted him dead, but it wasn't a country wide effort to kill him

They all just wanted him gone

With Wano, there's no country wide effort yet, but the only individuals who are conspiring into a full force to fight him want him only dead

[last halo]

Mingo was also a fan favorite, I don't think Oda ever wanted to kill him

[sand sail]

Not just gone and out to their hair, but paying for his crimes entirely. Which also makes more sense since he's a Wano citizen, whereas Doflamingo was an invader

[last halo]

Orochi on the other hand...