manga-theories

[dusky acorn]

So yeah, Oda isn't really doing things for plain hype, he's factoring and taking character relations into account

[jade solar]

Tbh so far the second rock pirates got ejected by Jinbei and Robin out of the castle once

Have the former rock pirate crewmates got ejected twice on the way of Wano

[pure raven]

how u mean that?

[jade solar]

So far BM pirates were only humiliated

[pure raven]

i wouldnt say peroronchini and katakuri got humiliated

[jade solar]

I would rather see BM crew on Elbalf arc and then have a real character building

In my opinion Wano should be Kaido arc only as we got Big mom arc and flashback

[pure raven]

yeah gotta agree, and then a seperate old gen vs new gen arc?

[jade solar]

Idk I I really would like.. I might be too early to consider it but I would rather see the Rock reveal at Elbaf arc it would be
Whole cake = Big Mum + her flashback
Wano = Kaido + oden flashback + kaido flashback
Elbaf = Rock flashback + others

But I don't know what Oda is cooking after Wano for sure he'll surprise me 😅

[craggy bloom]

doubt rocks pirates would be brought up on Elbaf

probably will learn about that in Kaido backstory and see more with how its connected to Blackbeard

[pure raven]

i think that gole dee roger has the water water fruit because it makes sense if you think about it

[obtuse void]

@pure raven elaborate maybe

[pure raven]

no

[copper frost]

Yooo, this man said no when asked to elaborate on a shitty ass theory yooooo

[solar steppe]

Aight lads, Hiyori is on onigashima to play the music to end arc 3

[dusky acorn]

I don't really know what merit she would have found in bringing her shamisen to the raid, but the name of her trademark song is Moon Princess, which would be quite fitting for the current night.

[ionic wigeon]

nah it will be shanks 100%

that or shanks is on raftel

[craggy bloom]

I don’t think shanks is on raftel

[pure raven]

where do female criminals go when captured by the navy? Im rewatching the impel down arc and i noticed there are 0 female prisoners

[craggy bloom]

Tbh don’t see anything happening on raftel in terms of fight

[visual merlin]

same places, there's just less of em, an example of one would be Katarina devon though

[pure raven]

oh yeah forgot about here but still 1 person

[visual merlin]

There's just less females there

[pure raven]

theres gotta be more than a few female criminals

[mystic crown]

They all seduced the vice warden like in the flashback and got away

[pure raven]

maybe they all get sent to mariejois 👀

[visual merlin]

Yea ofc, there's just a lot more male prisoners. But if there's nothing else we can at least base it on Katarina, and say they are held in the same places

[ionic wigeon]

possible shanks meetup and mini fight

thats what i can see yknow proof that luffy is now a great pirate blah blah

[craggy bloom]

Luffy will be a great pirate after wano fight right?

[ionic wigeon]

we need shanks to say it

[craggy bloom]

Yeah

[junior cape]

I imagine a "great pirate" to shanks means somewhere above 1bn bounty

[ionic wigeon]

meh

[pure raven]

I think Shanks is far too deep a character to suggest his idea of a great pirate is related to their bounty.

[pure raven]

Everytime i see the image of vegapunk i think of chris chan

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/b/b9/Vegapunk_Anime_Infobox.png/revision/latest?cb=20160121022541

[junior cape]

Maybe. I guess it could be more the likes of "ballsy enough to challenge an emperor to a skirmish and win".

[maiden ingot]

After wano

The setup is already there

[pure raven]

Is black beards fruit based on a black hole?

he has a move called vortex and talks about how nothing escapes the gravity of darkness

[covert hazel]

I always saw it like that yeah

[pure raven]

makes me wonder if the reason he put the blanket over whitebeards corpse is to amplify his powers to act like the event horizon of a black hole. where its impossible for anything to escape, even the "soul" of a devilfruit.

[covert hazel]

That too, I assumed it was imbued with seastone or something so he could capture the df

[sacred hawk]

I used to think it was possible for the straw hats to get to Laugh Tale with three road poneglphs. But I'm rereading skypeia, and I just found something that sinks that theory:

Mathematically, it's still possible to locate laugh tale with three road poneglyphs. You'd just have to make a triangle with the locations and sail along the edges until you reach laugh tale. But you can't do that on the grand line

[pure raven]

i mean that still doesnt make sense to me

[rain crag]

But do you realize how long it will take to find it though

[pure raven]

nevermind i just drew it out in paint that does make sense to follow the lines of the triangle lol

[sick valve]

yeah it's point triangulation, used a lot in movies and crime shows

And that's why people have the idea the series is closer to being done than we think, because the Straw Hats are right on top of their 3rd Rio Poneglyph and they just need to find out where the 4th one went off to

Which considering it's been missing for quite a while it's easy to just magic wand it as at Elbaf or some shit

[silk elbow]

Hey guys im new here and i was reading a lot of theory but i didn’t find anything about it ...... if you guys remember enel lobby ark, what was the big hole in the ocean just under the tower where robin was captive?
Ps: srry my english is not perfect 🤭

[sick valve]

There wasn't really an explanation for it, I guess it was just a visual thing to show how helpless the location was

because logistically without any devil fruits that enable flight or forms of air travel there's only 2 ways out of Enies Lobby. One is through a literal city of Marines and the other is through a gate that spends most of its time closed

[silk elbow]

I guess you right! I alway wonder if there was a connection with something and no one was talking about it 🙄

[junior cape]

BlackBeard's fruit is a weird one. It's not gravity control, since Issho has that, and it's not shadows, since Moria has that. So him saying he's a darkness man isn't wrong, it's just weird

The "gravity of darkness" is probably just referring to how black holes suck in everything, but most notably light

The eventual Blackbeard Vs. Luffy fight is really gonna boil down to how well Luffy can do non-rubber CQC against 2 devil fruits at once

And I think he'll either manage with Haki or something else will come along where he figures out how to dodge the suction

IDK, it'll be fun to see Oda figure it out when we get there

[dusky acorn]

The weirdest thing to me about Blackbeard's power is how he goes on about it compressing things with infinite power and gravity, and yet from what he's shown with Black Hole so far, it doesn't completely disintegrate the people and objects it engulfs, only heavily damages

It makes sense from a story-telling perspective not to make the power a literal insta-kill, but it seems contradictory to his statements

Unless he was just holding back on his previous demonstrations with the fruit for those prior times

[pure raven]

i mean hed only had his fruit for a few months or something at the point when he fought ace

other than the fact that theirs a country sized never ending whirlpool in the middle of them all?

[bitter condor]

When going over Whitebeard & Roger' bounties, the next panel(s) makes a point that of adding Big Mom and Kaido' bounties together would be higher than any other in history. So if Luffy is reported as the main actor in their defeat, would the world/marines recognize him as the pirate king already?

[keen portal]

What? No. Luffy alone didn't take Kaido+BM down together

It's Luffy+kid+law+minks+Wano samurai

[main sigil]

It doesn’t work that way lol. He needs to find the One Piece to be considered Pirate King

[short saffron]

I'm pretty sure minks did absolutely no damage and the samurai did minimal damage which as far as I'm concerned is none

[keen portal]

its not about who did how much. The point is without any one of them, the raid wouldnt be going as it did.

[short saffron]

Yes but stalling and taking down are two different terms, I'd say Luffy kid law zoro and killer

[keen portal]

without the samurai stalling the forces in the main hall, luffy law and kid would be even more ganged up and prevented from taking down kaido and BM

[wild veldt]

Without the samurai. The 5 on the roof would have been stopped long before they got to kaido

[short saffron]

Ofcourse they had important contributions to the raid but here we are talking only about taking him down right

[near beacon]

Eustass D William Kidd

[short saffron]

Yes yes ik, I'm not saying that their presence or tasks weren't important... I'm just saying that the credit of taking Kaido and BM down should remain in the hands of the ones who actually did it

[wild veldt]

But that won't happen

Unless luffy gets all the credit like he did for wci

[short saffron]

We all know at the end the government will give the credit to all of the mentioned people and say that Luffy is no threat to the WG

Especially considering how Akainu feels about luffy

[keen portal]

it was the samurai, specifically the scabbards who called on the raid. They were the ones to actually attack kaido first and take on the frontal assault, signalling the start of the battle. Luffy, zoro were waiting for them to do so, remember?
The minks were the first ones to deal with jack and keep the passage to the roof secure for luffy and others while fighting kaido's forces.

I think you'd do them a disservice, seeing as they were the ones who started the raid by their assault, not get equal credit as the one who ends it, namely luffy law and kid

not that the minks or the samurai need any credit from the WG, no. But they're an equal alliance as of now. Luffy is not lording over them, nor are they under his command directly.

[dusky acorn]

It's definitely an equal alliance with no stand-alone figurehead as far as the general public is considered. I think Blackbeard's dialogue in 925 will actually a good indicator for how the general public will inevitably see the current effort against Kaido and Big Mom.
He doesn't say something like Luffy being the sole person leading the upcoming force, but rather "All the young folks with angry blood like Straw Hat are gathered there.", so he merely uses Luffy as an example, and still recognises people like Kid and Law are just as important.

The only thing that would be able to deter things is if Morgans was actually here to bend the events, but as things stand the message seems to be in either Drake or CP0's hands to deliver, so we're good in that department.

With that being said, it's no doubt the 5 who are putting their all to take down the 2 main heads will gain the most notoriety, while most of the minks and samurai wouldn't be worth placing bounties on since they're not really pirates anyway.
As for the others, things could go in a way where everyone not part of the final battle may gain some flat-lined bounty increase like Dressrosa's main fighters, but instead of +50M maybe 100/200.

But then again, there's people like Sanji/Jinbei who are practically begging for more notoriety, so any sort of flat-line shouldn't be enough, at least for people like them..

Maybe it'll be a mix of dynamic raises and base increases depending on the specific characters, we'll just have to see.

[sick valve]

See there's two ways I can see the information going post Luffy and company versus BM and Kaido.

Either the info gets revealed that the Straw Hats were on the island and that they fought the BM and Kaido alliance, whether or not it's Drake that reports it to the Marines or if CP0 reports it to the WG/Morgans/whomever. Tons of attention would focus once again on Luffy who is already being touted as the 5th emperor by Morgans.

Or.

Drake choses not to reveal that Luffy and co. fought Kaido and Big Mom and instead passes it off as Wano uprising against Kaido and taking back their country. CP0 choosing not to reveal the information because they don't want it shaking the world up (which CP0 has been shown to do as recently as Dressrosa and information as a whole has be obfuscated before). Either party also passes forward the information that Big Mom and Kaido had a falling out alongside the revolt which allowed Wano to rise up and fight off Kaido.

[loud ibex]

Imagine if the new admiral shows up in wano lol

[urban ledge]

I have a hypothesis that Oda purposefully delayed BM Pirates reaching Wano to put them against whatever Marine Force may come to Wano

[loud ibex]

I don’t really think black beard would go to wano

[dusky acorn]

Greenbull arriving would be pretty cool, but also sort of an instant game-over for Luffy if the Admiral has any semblance of doing their job properly, since they would probably be focusing on disposing of his alliance so balance can be maintained with the Yonko still remaining in tact, which CP0 also prefers.
Thankfully it's not something that has to be worried about as long as the marines follow Akainu's orders, which granted Ryokyugu has shown not to care much about.
I wouldn't recommend it, but I suppose you could take Akainu's orders as a red herring and extrapolate Ryokyugu's dissonance to them for him potentially moving on to do his own thing

[loud ibex]

Cp0 wants to third party after everything, if a admiral would come it would be endgame I wouldn’t see a happy ending for the straw hats just like soabody

No way win vs TWO yonko and go unharmed from a admiral

[dusky acorn]

Yeah I agree, it's too many massive forces for the Straw Hats to worry about for one measly night, there just isn't enough stamina to go around

Unless he'd show up like, days/weeks after the conflict and everyone is on the verge of having fully recuperated

[loud ibex]

yeah but the marines right now are busy to whatever happen in the resevre

[keen portal]

idk man, everything is set up prime for CP0 to do shit. Clean up after the war, take out both side pirates, show their powers, do more in the story.

I dont want the marines to show up and do stuff the CP0 would already be doing

[loud ibex]

What I think happen is the government killed off the king of alabatsa and is going to blame it on sabo

[dusky acorn]

The Reverie conflict actually happened on the 4th day of the event, and it's been over 10 days since then. I suppose your point still stands though since the thing marines are still recovering from now are the Warlord fights, which were no more than 6 days ago

[loud ibex]

True that is also happening so much is happening so lil time no wonder fleet said “at the worst time two yonko team up we don’t have time for this “

[urban ledge]

The way it is presented, there's a huge conflict getting started in which Marines, Revs and Blackbeard are heavily involved

That's one of the reasons I don't see any of them coming to Wano tbh

[sick valve]

I don't think the Marines are going to Wano, period

[loud ibex]

Yeah we already have cp0 at wano I think that’s enough

Even oda removed doffy who was going to be in wano but said it was to much to handle which is true imagine doffy in wano lmaoooo

[sick valve]

was doffy actually going to be used in Wano, or is that just speculation?

[loud ibex]

If doffy was in wano like as plan do u think he would be upstairs with big mom and kaido ? Or just be toying around with the samurai ?

[dusky acorn]

It was confirmed in the latest Volume's SBS. It was stated Doflamingo's "Joker" name was a remnant of his original plot-line of being in Wano to fight as Kaido's strong ally

[loud ibex]

He was just to OP

I think no more “special “ appearances until the fight is over with just like other arcs where the marine only come after a few days / a week

[ancient vault]

except for moria

[wooden topaz]

If Law didn't meet Luffy at Punk Hazard, is there any option for Law Alliance ? or Luffy is the only option Law had ?

[pure raven]

Didn't Law say in the green bit portion of Dressrosa that he just wanted to kill Doflamingo, and only had dragged Luffy along by chance?

[wooden topaz]

yes i know it, but i little bit not really sure about that...

[acoustic helm]

It's Fate..

[fast crest]

any theories about is it actually oden or not?

[obtuse void]

There's theory that they are and theory that they are not

[ancient vault]

!pins check pins

[lone hedge]

PC:
Check for 📌 at the top right of your screen.

iOS:
Click on the channel’s name at the top of your screen or swipe to the left, then search for 📌.

Android and others:
Click on the channel’s name at the top of your screen and tap at “Pinned messages”.

[fast crest]

thanks!

[winged copper]

zoro still has 2 eyes

[lone plaza]

Oda said he planned on Zoro to have one eye cut from the start👀

[plush pike]

You know what would be not weird at all at this point? Zoro with an eyepatch. But I doubt that's who Oda is going for though. Probably something like Xebec?

[radiant quarry]

My theory is that dragon was a X marine he had a wife she had luffy and when luffy was a toddler she went out for who knows what reason and met a celestial dragon who wanted her to become a slave she refused and was killed dragon finds out and later kills that celestial dragon and gets exiled from the marines but as per usual the government covers it up and then dragon starts the revolutionary stuff

Or

Imu and dragon were lovers they had a child luffy but imu finds out dragon is a D member who used their relationship to get close to celestial dragons and kill some Imu finds out and now wants dragon killed which explains his ridiculously high bounty

[cyan berry]

we see rock's face, or at least the silhouette. he did not have an eyepatch

[lost hornet]

Am i wrong in thinking that shanks may be a secret villian or smth

[amber oar]

probably you're wrong yeah

[lost hornet]

Its been bugging me. How can he stop marineford just like that

[amber oar]

how do you reach to the conclusion that is a secret villain from that

(edited above for clarity)

[lost hornet]

1. It would be a really good plot twist writing wise. 2. Hes met the gorosei quite a lot of times 3. Stopping marineford. I think therw may be other points but i just came up with this idea rn

[amber oar]

no, it wouldn't be a good plot twist

Not that I should fully discard that possibility, but after seeing his actions in different stages of life the chance he's a secret villain is very slim and those theories come from headcanons fed by low quality series

[lost hornet]

If i researched more i could prob find some stuff but i dont wanna get spoiled

[amber oar]

wait, where you are in the manga?

[lost hornet]

Hm i think 700 around there havent touched it in while tho

[amber oar]

1. No it wouldn't be a good plot twist
2. He has met them pretty much once as far as we know, and being able to sit and talk with perceivedly evil authorities doesn't really mean anything. Not every "good" character has to storm and flip tables like Luffy does
3. How anything of his intervention in Marineford makes him a villain.

[polar bison]

we’re all caught up here, you’ll get spoiled very fast if u stay

[lost hornet]

He seems to have ties with the marines

[amber oar]

Luffy has ties with at least two marines, so?

[lost hornet]

Yeahhh i know i know. I dlnt really mind too much

[winged copper]

i think it'd be a very good plot twist

[lost hornet]

Yeah, its just a theory after all. Imo i think it would be cool

[winged copper]

but it'd make no sense for him to sacrifice his arm for a random child

[amber oar]

I don't see what's cool about making him villain

[winged copper]

even if he knew luffy = dragon's child, would be very villain of him to kill d child

[lost hornet]

Yup. Maybe he saw potential in luffy and wants him to get the one piece for him or smth. Who knows. Just makimg stuff up

[polar bison]

shanks doesn’t seem to be wholly good, but few pirates in OP are. he consistently shows genuine care for luffy tho, so I don’t think that’s fake, and he clearly wants luffy to succeed. I don’t think these two facts taken together can be interpreted in any way except that he’s a mostly good guy who won’t ultimately be a villain in the story

[amber oar]

Shanks may be ruthless if any (from his encounter with Kid). Which is not quite the same as being a villain

[winged copper]

yeah the theory is a very weak one, almost certain it's false but it would've been an extremely big plot twist

[amber oar]

not every big plot twist is a "good" plot twist. Not if it breaks the continuity and you have to patch plotholes everywhere.

[lost hornet]

Yup i agree its pretty weak

[cyan sand]

sanji will get future sight haki

[amber oar]

also, if you're around 700, how the fuck do you know about his meeting with the geezers lmao... go and catch up before you get spoiled mate

[cyan sand]

from luffy eating food in the night so often

[night jewel]

I personally think he is a cruel pirate, which is kinda setup from chapter 1 when one of his subordinates, Roux nonchalantly blows off the head of a random bandit, + the fact that he is considered a fearsome pirate alongside the other emperors, and how scared the marines were when Brannew and Sengoku mentioned him + ofc, his encounter with kid yea, and i think he will definitely be an antagonist luffy will eventually face... if thats what you are saying then thats fine.... him being some sort of double WG agent, some guy who has been planning something evil and whatnot would be awful

and yea, since you are not caught up then i would suggest staying in #catching-up lol, and then come back

[amber oar]

I'd say ruthless rather than cruel

A ruthless person has no mercy if someone stands in their way. A cruel person goes out their way to cause pain to others. Orochi is a cruel person, for example

[sick valve]

yeah Shanks has been shown to be very friendly when the situation calls for it. I don't think he's evil or a bad character.

[hasty lichen]

Saw some hate on Choppers Kung fu point. But Chopper learned Kung fu from the Torino people so he had to mimic their bodies to actually apply it

[obtuse void]

they made kung fu point basically fat panda

[sturdy hawk]

And it's good

[marble marlin]

i think that would be a pretty predictable future for him i expect something more complicated

[amber oar]

more complicated doesn't mean better

[marble marlin]

oh wait i didn't mean it like that not complicated but like more mysterious

[amber oar]

more mysterious doesn't mean better either, if the "mystery behind" is lame

And personally I think Shanks being a secret conspiring mastermind would be lame af

[dull pumice]

People who think Shanks will fight Luffy

[amber oar]

I stick to Arsal's take. Shanks is ruthless and apparently can be very violent if you cross him, but he's not a secret agent or any other conspiracy bullshit

And I think he will fight Luffy, but not to death. It could be to test him. Or Luffy could go to him to prove himself. I think the Barto incident could trigger a fight too.

[marble marlin]

bro i dont mean something lame when i say mysterious who would want that. i just want a good background for him

[iron breach]

so is manga spoilers allowed here?

[amber oar]

Shanks already has a good background

he sailed with the pirate fucking king at the age of 9!

[iron breach]

I mean the leaks

[pure raven]

There aren't any leaks

[iron breach]

no I am just asking in general

[pure raven]

Oh no leaks aren't allowed

[amber oar]

@iron breach just until the latest released chapter. Early leaks only in #spoilers

[pure raven]

I think the only place to discuss leaks is #spoilers

[iron breach]

oh that's good

so guys I have this theory but I know it's a little bit over the top

I wrote a post for it on reddit and got downvoted to Impel Down

[pure raven]

Link it

[iron breach]

sure

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/m543tf/infusion_chapter_1007_theory/

[amber oar]

a little bit?

[pure raven]

I would downvote that twice if I could.

[iron breach]

will don't you think if it happened it'll not be the most over the top thing that already happened in One Piece?😅

[pure raven]

I'd like to think after 1000 chapters of constructing a story, Oda would keep things fairly logical and not go down a fusion route.

Don't get me wrong, it's wacky. I like that. But it's the no-basis kinda wacky instead of the wacky-but-you-could-see-it-happening type of wacky.

[iron breach]

I agree

I just need you guys to witness this just in case

[loud ibex]

There a theory that act 3 ends in a horrible event cux that’s how thoses kind of plays go and imagine you just see luffy come crashing down from the celling all fucked up

[amber oar]

that theory came from the 5 acts structure in which supposedly act 3 ends in a big tragedy

turns out kabuki doesn't even have always 5 acts

[pure raven]

I hope we eventually find out what happened to little oars jr

[iron breach]

Isn't he dead?

[queen arrow]

he's not confirmed dead

[sage pond]

someone did it before you

[warped wagon]

My main Problem, beside the whole logic problems of not existing explanations for this crazy events
Why doesnt this Oden wear Yamatos Clothes then😂

[pure raven]

Tokis Devil fruit ability the toki toki no mi sends people to the future
But
Their past selves cannot exist and must die as the requirement.
Theres a game, Soma that does this with transferring consciousness into a new body.
So in theory
Momo, Kanjuro, Kinemon, and Raizo all died in the fire of Kuri castle 20 years ago, Toki was shot after giving her speech 20 years ago, and Oden boiled and was shot 20 years ago. The past selves died, to have the present copies Toki made be sent to the future.

The reason there are 8 graves in 918 is because Denjiro made them, finding the bones and burying them in secret from Orochi, going MAD thinking they all had died, and becoming Kyoshiro over time. The reason Hiyori isn't on those gravestones is because Denjiro knew she was alive. There are 8 graves:
Oden
Momo
Toki

Raizo, Kanjuro, Kin'emon
And Inuarashi and Nekomamushi who Denjiro assumed died because they dissapeared being captured while fleeing to the number in 973

Now, Oden knew he was going to die and theres several conversations he had with his scabbards, children and wife to support that

"You can play that at my funeral"
To Hiyori who cried and he said was a 'joke'

"Why don't you jump through time?" To Toki, who was upset because he didn't understand the prospect that PAST TOKI had to die and she didn't want her husband to see that grim ability.

To the scabbards he mentioned a 'specific event taking place' and 'they would know when it happened'

Tokis Prophecy, "you are the moon unaware of the dawn," was to the people of wano, but also a callout to her daughter, Hiyori, the moon princess. She foresaw this outcome, and was prepared to die here and propel herself forwards in time.

So in essence, your past self HAS to die to be presently sent into the future.

TIME

Perhaps Toki had a contingency plan to send Oden and ALL the scabbards to the future by death but only 3 and momo ended up going

Now you might be thinking "but wouldn't Tokis devil fruit reincarnate if she died?" Not exactly, not if the conditions were met for the past copy to die and the present real body to travel to the future. Toki choosing not to time travel jump when she dies (which isn't 20 years ago, she would make one final jump I believe) and choosing to die normally is how she would die and the fruit would reincarnate

[weak arrow]

Denjiro made them, finding the bones and burying them in secret from Orochi,

I'd say this is the main problem about this idea.

Btw 11 graves

[pure raven]

Easy fix

Its Hiyori then who made the graves
8 scabbards dead (not Denjiro who she knew)
Toki, Oden and Momo

[weak arrow]

she also knew kawamatsu

[pure raven]

Ohhhh

Hmm

There's gotta be 8 scabbards accounted for

So I wonder WHEN she made these gravestones

I genuinely believe that Denjiro did hide the bones and went mad with rage that his allies all 'died'

[weak arrow]

regardless, there was no remains of momonosuke around, and I don't think any character hiding his remains is that feasible

[wide drum]

[weak arrow]

Also, this whole thing is sort of nonsensical if you don't mean like, your body instantly dies when sent to the future

hence oden would not even be included in that

[pure raven]

You get what I'm implying right? Your past self when Toki makes a copy of you and sends you to the future has to die

Its not instant

[weak arrow]

Except if it isn't instant, then toki could also send that one to the future as well.

[pure raven]

Only one you can exist at a time

Oden died, the copy Oden 20 years in the future is the one Toki sent before he was executed

[weak arrow]

So Toki sends Oden 20 years into the future. Then Toki sends the Oden that's still alive in her current time 40 years into the future.

That's the kind of scenario you're allowing

[pure raven]

What?

[red glacier]

[pure raven]

You can't do that though

[weak arrow]

If the person does not die, Toki could infinitely send Oden's into the future at multiple years

you can though, based off your logic

hence why this idea is nonsensical

[pure raven]

They have to die for the ability to work

[weak arrow]

Cosmic, you're saying they don't instantly die though, which is why your idea is nonsensical.

[red glacier]

[weak arrow]

Because if they don't instantly die, she could send Oden copy #1 to 20 years in the future, Oden copy #2 40 years into the future, Oden copy #3 60 years into the future, and just do this until his execution happens

[pure raven]

Ok think of it like this:
Toki makes a time copy of Oden
PAST Oden, who is going to die, dies, and the copy activation happens, he is sent forward in time

There can only be one copy of you at a time

She would choose when to send the copy but thats the only living copy of you that could exist

[weak arrow]

That sort of goes against Toki's logical thinking of escaping from the pirates when she first meets oden

[pure raven]

She would kill herself to escape to the future

She was cornered so she would 'use her ability' to travel to the future
We never see the past if we're sent to the future

Also.

Why was Toki covered in blood when she escaped the castle

Because she killed the scabbards to send them forwards in time

[pure raven]

She didn't send Hiyori to the future because of her vision

And the prophecy

[weak arrow]

She doesn't have a vision, but also i posted that because it's showing she's bloodied up b4 sending anyone to the future

[pure raven]

...ah

[keen portal]

https://gyazo.com/216dd3a048506d9dbd95c67f2c0149a2

This is why hiyori wasn't sent. Not some vision she had.

[weak arrow]

She knew Oden was 100% dead, thus made "the prophecy" of only 9 shadows as the 9 scabbards could have been alive to her knowledge.

[pure raven]

And Toki chose Momo to send, yes. I'm saying that, this is convoluted as shit, but
Oden seemingly talking like knowing he was going to die and Tokis talk with him about not going to the future and getting angry wasn't because she didn't want to, but because she knew how the ability would cause a past iteration of her to die for her copy to be sent to the future

Unless yall wanna keep speculating about the shapeshifting abilities

[weak arrow]

I mean, tbh Kanjuro/Onimaru is definitely a better theories than this one, for sure.

[undone river]

Any theories on where caribou went?

[pure raven]

It is, but we won't know for sure unless we get something like Toki popping up and lore dropping

[weak arrow]

Many people think he's the shadowy figure we saw behind jinbe and robin

[undone river]

Intresting

And who freed law from the prison?

[pure raven]

Again the toki toki fruit is still a mystery and if this theory isnt the case then, who regenerated and ate it

Cause I doubt its Hiyori

[weak arrow]

That doesn’t really matter

We have bartolomeo and mr 2 who have other wano-related fruits and have 0 ties there

[pure raven]

Yeah I guess that's pretty fair lmao

[weak arrow]

The person who ate it could have already went into the future 100s of years as well

[undone river]

There could theoretically be a df which let's its user travel back in time

There could be 2 df one for travelling forward in time and one for travelling backwards in time

[hollow axle]

Random YouTube theory: Yamato’s fruit is a tiger fruit because the tiger in Chinese myth is always fighting dragon and the mythical creatures are a dragon : kaido a tiger: Yamato a snake: orochi Phoenix : Marco Seems pretty reasonable to me

[dusky acorn]

Well, it's possible. However, there's still the other popular theory of Yamato having some kind of dragon fruit in her own right due to her generalised descriptor and knowledge of dragon mobility running on flame clouds.
Though, something that threw me off of Yamato having some kind of dragon fruit recently was her reaction to Momonosuke's transformation, which she seemed confused about, even going as far to dub it an "eel" when he was still clearly using flame clouds to fly there as well.
If Yamato lived with a similar kind of fruit her whole life, then it would make make even less sense to get a detail like that wrong. But even then, Yamato has lived with Kaido this whole time who has a dragon fruit anyways, so that moment might just be meant to be taken as a gag, even if potentially inconsistent to her predisposed knowledge.

But yeah, in other words even though the dragon fruit might also have things going for it, I'd prefer her being a tiger or basically anything besides a similar fruit to Kaido himself, since it wouldn't be that creative

And I mean, even Big Mom's children didn't really have any fruit even close to hers, which is what made their powers unique and interesting to learn about. Granted Linlin's DF was a tad OP so makes sense

[cyan berry]

if that was the case then the fruit that sends people to the future would not be called the "Time Time Fruit", it would be called the "Future Future Fruit" or something. This is not a Zoan, Paramecias do not get different models

[wooden topaz]

Oda maybe will reveal next chapter with simple story, not with so much thing happen like we think. I mean Just a normal one.

[cyan berry]

based on the recent trend i highly doubt that

[queen arrow]

Yamato having a dragon fruit at this point wouldn't make sense

she would have left Onigashima with Shinobu and Momo already

[hollow axle]

People think that sasaki was transforming and getting the claws and stripes but the face had scars even though sasaki didn’t fight yet and Yamato had damage on her face

[dusky acorn]

Yeah, Yamato has to have some kind of fruit that doesn't offer flight or mobility in the air.. because something like that would have come in handy on past occasions by now

[hollow axle]

And also the hair is diffrent it’s Yamato’s and the person has a chin

Sasaki doesn’t have a chin

[dusky acorn]

Well that's strange, I'm not sure why people would have that kind of misconception about the scene. It's pretty clear to read that Yamato saw Sasaki getting serious by pulling his special sword out, even uttering his name, and then responds by starting her own transformation

Wonder why the eyes are blackened out though, perhaps they'd be a much clearer indicator on what her power is

[ancient vault]

Yeah thats clearly yamato

[dusky acorn]

@lone shadow Don't post memes in this channel.

[lunar shell]

Yamato = white tiger

[loud ibex]

What channel then smh

[dusky acorn]

You should be fine to post meme images/theories in practically any channel besides this one and #spoilers without being punished, as long as they're tagged in the proper places

[sick valve]

that's an interesting laugh, too Hacha cha cha

[pure raven]

It's actually Zoro wearing his bandana over his eyes

It's obviously Yamato

[ancient vault]

HES GOING ALL OUT

[cyan berry]

probably because it's by Hacha, the giant Number

[ancient vault]

he got one shot but hes probably waking up soon

[pure raven]

Have we still not seen numbers 1 through 3?

[dusky acorn]

I don't think it's just his laugh either. Those parts of their names seem to be all the Numbers are capable of muttering out in general. The fact that their intelligence isn't up to par with the actual Ancient Giants we've seen in the story lends itself to explaining why they're 'failed' experiments to begin with

Yeah, and also Number 9, although we've already heard its laugh from the beginning of the fire festival celebration

[lament cave]

what if the person with the straw hat thats gonna destroy fishman island is actually Im with the giant straw hat?

[ancient vault]

hachi is 8 right?

number 9 better look as cool a hacchi

[dusky acorn]

Have to admit, it's pretty jarring how Haccha is the only one with modern clothes

The fact that the lowest 3 Numbers are clumped up as the ones we haven't seen besides 9 leads me to believe they might be the strongest ones or something. At the very least, they'll be sober
(Oh wait, there's still the unknown 6th Number too, don't know how that went past me)

Also Soup, you may have had a point there if Shyarly only said she saw a "human with a straw hat" and merely connected it to Luffy, leaving more room for other straw hatted wearers for interpretation, but she clearly says she sensed something calamitous in Luffy specifically, which is what triggered the fortune

And besides, the vision she sees blatantly has the same hair/proportions as Luffy, so it's a wrap

[lament cave]

ohh makes sense

[lament cave]

honestly i no longer trust silhouettes in one piece which is the only reason i kinda disregarded that, i think its just another way for oda to kinda subvert our attention in the wrong direction

[sacred hawk]

You think the numbers will ally with the alliance, or still be enemies?

Since the ice oni has been dealt with, it's safe to call them to the live floor now. So the remaining numbers will probably make an appearance soon

[gilded wagon]

Idk these two look like numbers to me

[lament cave]

honestly dont see much point in having them ally cause then there wont be real fights for the rest of the sh, unless every ally goes up to help defeat kaido and big mom (or if im just forgetting about other antagonists existence)

[dusky acorn]

Well if the Numbers aren't being controlled properly it seems there's already a precedent for them attacking their own crew indiscriminately, at least while drunk

But it's not like they're smart enough to go against their crew on emotional grounds like the Waiters and Pleasurers currently are

So any real betrayal they'd have would be inadvertent, similar to the Gifters, like Brook controlling them? Theme of betrayal is very big, it's just difficult to pit the Numbers completely against their own crew

If any of the remaining 5 have some kind of animal power then that would be another way, with Tama taming them, but seems unlikely

[sacred hawk]

Actually, could you imagine what would happen if one of them was infected with the ice oni?

[gilded wagon]

I don’t think there’s 5 remaining, they took out two of them when they got there

[sacred hawk]

There were confirmed to be ten. And five have been beaten so far

[gilded wagon]

Two right here

[sacred hawk]

Honestly, they look a little small to be numbers

Like, the numbers were big enough to hold the franky Shogun like a toy

[gilded wagon]

Ehhh they look the right size to me

[dusky acorn]

Yeah, that looks way smaller than the Numbers who are said to be even bigger than giants

[amber oar]

They wouldn't have put a Number there without introducing him

Also yeah, too small. Those aren's bigger than BM

[gilded wagon]

Ah, I’ll take this L then

[amber oar]

Come to think in this context it works for either BM

[dusky acorn]

Here's the size of Luffy and Drake on top of these numbers, whose respective heights don't even reach close to these Numbers vertical face heights

[gilded wagon]

Did the minks take out the one with Jack?

[gilded wagon]

Great reference, thank you

[dusky acorn]

Yeah, they did. It's shown knocked out afterwards

[sacred hawk]

I'll grant you that there are some inconsistencies with how bug they are. Like with how one of them was only drawn to be twice as big as Jack. But I think that if a number was introduced, they'd be introduced properly

[sacred hawk]

And then here you have Jack be really tiny compared to the numbers, while also being tinier compared to Kaido's dragon form

[dark palm]

Damn that number is 100 ft +

[ancient vault]

that panels so good

[dusky acorn]

Yeah, really puts things to perspective

Also, about how Derp was talking earlier about how devastating Numbers with the ice oni infection would be

If those two Numbers were still lying in the performance floor like that with no one able to move them, I'm surprised they didn't get the infection at some point

It would have probably rejuvenated them into a frenzy, but we don't have to worry about it anymore since it's been cured and Zoro sliced Queen's machine for it

[grizzled fog]

What are these tori guards? They look kinda like robots to me, maybe Queen’s cyborgs?

[ember matrix]

Ngl their designs give me Franky family vibes.

[slim vale]

Kinda hope it turns out franky enhanced the franky shogun with seastone attachments during wano, using the basis that wano has an abundance of seastone and people who are good with crafting things like sea stone bullets

[grizzled fog]

That’s my personal hope as well, I’ll be disappointed if he leaves wano without some seastone

[sacred hawk]

Is it crazy if I think Zoro vs. King is still possible? Because if Marco ends up getting defeated, King could just fly to the roof to kill the ones who managed to make it up.

King wouldn't really have much else to do on the live floor

[weak arrow]

yes

[dusky acorn]

It depends, Perospero commented on Marco's weariness, but he seemed to still be doing decently well in the latest chapter. Even if Marco is defeated, I don't think King would prioritise 5 measly fighters on the rooftop who are already covered by Yonko over the thousands of fighters to face on the floor. (Our numbers are even growing as we speak due to the betrayal currently happening.)

Most soldiers might not be as strong as the 5 individually, but there's no denying the troops on the ground still make up for the majority of the alliance's force

[weak arrow]

The 5 supernova are already in a-5% situation on the rooftop and making it -25% is not helpful

[visual merlin]

It is crazy unless more allies also get to the roof

[sacred hawk]

But at the same time, King stated that the majority of them would be dealt with once Momonosuke is killed

[visual merlin]

King ending up on the roof sounds fine if we somehow get more allies to the roof too, at least enough to balance him out though

[dusky acorn]

Yea, King sees Momo as key to the alliance's vitality, but his trek to the roof would only be made likely if Momo also happens to be there. Momo also being on the ground currently gives King even less motive to go up there right now

If what Momo is currently doing in his dragon form is flying all the way to the roof I'll eat my words, but for now it seems solid

[sacred hawk]

That's why he's leaving Momo to the subordinates

[pure raven]

Wouldn’t Yamato vs king make more sense

Oda has already provided us with scenes portraying their dislike for each other

[weak arrow]

what

[sacred hawk]

I don't think Yamato has interacted with any of the calamities

[dusky acorn]

Well, if Oda wants to showcase King's powers to their fullest potential he'd probably want to match him up with a respective aerial combatant, (as he already did with Marco/Sanji) which earlier today we talked about how Yamato having some kind of flight fruit is basically deconfirmed

And yeah, I think you may be misremembering something anyway Bobby, possibly mixing up Who's Who's connection to him

[weak arrow]

or Ulti's to Yamato

[cyan cliff]

Yamato VS Jack is my bet, the battle of Kaido's "sons"

The scene after Neko and Inu demolished Jack showed Kaido VERY concerned for Jack's well being. It was implied that Kaido recruited Jack when he was young and groomed him. Makes sense that he would look to Kaido as a son if not even more of a true offspring than Yamato (speculation)

[polar bison]

I think all the calamities are kinda like Kaidou’s sons

Jack refers to King and Queen and his brothers, and I think it’s not a mistake that Kaidou’s litmus test for challenging a calamity was bringing back Yamato - defeating them. defeating/wrangling his son in order to challenge his sons.

[dusky acorn]

I would still say King and Queen have that parent-child kind of relationship with Kaido less merely due to their ages, where they were already shown as full grown adults by the time their fight against Oden happened 20 years ago.
But yep, Jack seeing the other two as his older bros means that possible familial kind of relation isn't specific to him, even if I also think it fits him most.

And even so, Jack and Yamato's aligned ages mean they must have history together, so a matchup would be pretty fitting, especially since they both seem to be converging on the Scabbards.
I'd prefer Jack fighting Yamato since the Scabbards, namely Neko and Inu already resolved their plot-line by getting retribution on Jack with the minks. A round 2 would be somewhat redundant.
I think Scabbards have enough on their plate now with "Oden", Hiyori, and potentially even an Orochi revival on the horizon anyways.

[pure raven]

(grooming is 100% not the correct word there, Randy)

[raw parrot]

Idk if this has been discussed here before, but do you people think luffy's new gear might be: Gear 4 Dragon, when defeating Kaido?

[dusky acorn]

Yes, either Tiger or Dragonman are both the most widely speculated theories, mainly due to Kaido, as you say.
But frankly, the power of Luffy's opponents have never really been an indicator on what the new transformation name Luffy will bring to the table is. Like, Doffy didn't really have a relation to "Bounce", nor Cracker to "Tank" (Cracker by himself was the complete opposite even), whilst snakes weren't an animal that had a theme in regards to Katakuri in general.
Whatever form Luffy brings to the table is if any, it would probably be something out of left field like those again.

Anyhow, Hyogoro's comment about Luffy's bulky Boundman form looking like the Wisdom King, or even the Nio Statue as Oda said in a past SBS offputs me from thinking Luffy will change into some other lankier form. It seems most fitting to end this fight as Wano's saviour either in Boundman, or at least Tankman going off of Hyo's past description.

[median condor]

Think it might be possible or am I ovethinking

may explain why CP 0 was relieved it was a failure to be able to grant 1 wish aka kill IMU or become him. Kaido wasted his wish in that regard.

[fresh gale]

Why does there need to be a DBZ rip off “homage”? I don’t think we need that

[dusky acorn]

@median condor That's a cool theory on the potential mythical aspect of their fruits, but make sure to shy away from #other-series references

I'll repost without the references for you though, here

Momonosuke's power that was a failure is to grant wishes

Kaido's wish was to be indestructible/immortal and he had the ability to choose his wish Momonosuke cannot control his wishes so subconsciously he wishes his parents were back alive.

[random yacht]

I feel like the mythical ability is elemental clouds
like fire clouds, ice clouds etc

[median condor]

Thanks

[pure raven]

Dragon isnt Luffys dad..... Garps daughter is Luffys mother. Hence the phrase in MF "The child of my child" when referring to Luffy. IT is commonplace for a male to take the surname of a high class female in marriage in Japanese Culture so if his mom was a Celestial it would make sense. Which plays into PT2 of the theory that would make Dragon the son of Rocks D. Xebec, adding more reason to him changing his name. The only real evidence is appearance based but.... its Luffys family...so it'll be wild. Furthermore... as Luffy holds Rogers will not Ace... Blackbeard holds Xebecs not Dragon.

[last halo]

Kinda confused, but what you're trying to say is that Dragon isn't Garp's son right? Like, Dragon is Luffy's dad but not Garp's son. If so, I think that theory has been around for some years now

[pure raven]

ye, ik it has

im more or less looking for something to go against it

[last halo]

At this point we don't have anything to go against it, but not really anything in its favor either

[pure raven]

fair.... like i said it'd just be te type of thing Oda would do to make his family seem even more insane

[kind gate]

Does any one else see the roof collapsing ¿

[dusky acorn]

Areas of Onigashima and the castle deteriorating throughout the conflict has been a running trend, so maybe. Despite that though, the only real damage the roof sustained has been Kaido flying through to the roof, and the strike he missed on Luffy in 1000. Meaning so far there's really only 2 holes in the ceiling

And it collapsing would probably mean moving the final fight down to the 5th floor, which wouldn't be as exciting as the completely open outer battlefield we have now

[feral pike]

Oden in latest manga is kanjuro’s drawing from the past sent by toki

[grizzled fog]

I wouldn’t say that’s the only damage, Kid’s suplex on kaido had to deal some damage, as well as law’s tact.

[dusky acorn]

Both of those attacks broke some rocks underneath, along with Big Mom's Happy Mother's Blaze, but the angle didn't quite show us if they went deep enough through the entire ceiling. Judging by the magnitude of the attacks, maybe

Anyway, "Oden" being a Kanjuro drawing by itself is fine, but it sounds impossible for Kanjuro to have blown his cover about his drawing abilities way back then in front of Toki and the others. Not to mention her agreeing to send the drawing forward for who knows what reason

I get that Kanjuro might be 'dead' so you're probably trying to look for other workarounds, but that actually comes off more implausible than the alternate theory which relies on the assumption of "he almost died.. but didn't!" (maybe acted out his death?), or it was an ink clone that fought the Scabbards, w/e.

[grizzled fog]

Oh I’m sure they didn’t actually poke holes in the roof, but even if they don’t they damage the overall integrity of the roof, defo contributing to its condition

[median condor]

Momonosuke wished his parents back to life as a dragon he can grant a wish

[cyan cliff]

Toki was the silhouette. Oden is a Kanjuro drawing. Squard level betrayal panel coming soon. Kanjuro knows Zoro has Enma and Hitetsu had Ame no Habakiri so he drew generic blades. All of the scabbards were above the pot and ran away without looking back so Kanjuro is drawing him the way they remember. Kiku defeating Kanjuro off screen held no narrative weight. By mortally wounding another scabbard, Kanjuro can set himself up as one of the greatest villains in the series here. A scabbard fighting for Oden sees "Oden" as he (or she in Kiku's case) breathes his last breath. Poetry. Nothing else makes sense to me and the only reason we're still fixated on this is because of the break. This "twist" will not be the part we remember years from now imo

[polar bison]

I agree that it’ll seem minor in hindsight

not sure I agree that Kanjurou is about to pick up a kill here

[weak arrow]

Well, you haven't really explained why Toki is the silhouette, but I guess if it was Hiyori, still doesn't detract from the rest of your statement.

I can definitely agree that it could be a Kanjuro drawing, but all the scabbards have seen him with a goatee. It seems you expect this drawing to kill one of the scabbards b4 they release it's a fake?

[dusky acorn]

Same Khi, I have high doubts on this Oden twist being some massive part of the arc that's stretched for multiple chapters. It's an almost certainty that the end to the reveal will be shown next chapter when considering the track record of chapter enders being followed up in adjacent chapters during Onigashima.
And besides, we've sort of been waiting for the Scabbard plot-line to continue ever since seeing them in Ch/1004 anyways.

I've also seen many people saying they think the Kurozumi plot-line hasn't had a satisfying resolution, so Kanjuro could be a potential contributor there

Not that I think he's here for redemption though.. but just as a general presence here to still remind us of them maybe, who knows

[heavy nexus]

I think both Kanjuro and Orochi are behind this

and toki ran away from them, so thats why she isnt in the room

[grizzled fog]

How do you explain Toki being alive?

[plush pike]

The problem with the Kurozumi plot line is that if we end it by finding out that someone like Tama is a Kurozumi and then "forgive her", it's not going to have an overall impact on the story because she's a good person. However, if Orochi survives and realizes he's not supposed to be the shogun, and the old hag lied to him and manipulated him, and turned him into a monster, maybe he'll do something to help the Kozuki clan and restore his honor, maybe by sacrificing himself, or attempting to, but getting saved.

[heavy nexus]

From a theory I read is that the sound effect that was made when Kinemon and them travelled to the future was played again when Toki "died"

[plush pike]

In the anime?

[heavy nexus]

nah the manga, those background Kanji characters

[plush pike]

Oh. Wonder what they mean. They could be generic.

[heavy nexus]

I read it somewhere, idr where but it sounded convincing LOL

[plush pike]

But yeah, not a big fan of the Oden and Toki just survived through some trickery with her devil fruit. The most I'm willing to play around with that idea is that they temporarily traveled into the future with a time limit, knowing they had to also die in the past for all of this to take place. But even that's a stretch.

[heavy nexus]

Seems very plausable cause her plot line of her being from 800 years in the past didnt get resolved

[plush pike]

Oden should be dead after the hour of legends. Having the hour of legends be a fakeout would ruin his backstory for me.

[heavy nexus]

so I wouldnt be mad if she is alive. oden on the otherhand, Oda gonna have to pull out every trick in the book to make me want to read the rest of the arc LOL

[keen portal]

As far as we know all she wanted was to reach Wano, which she did and was satisfied with the life she led with Oden

[grizzled fog]

Not sure where you heard that, but the sound effect is not the same

[keen portal]

She herself said she has no more reason to jump into the future

[plush pike]

It may be the case that it's Hiyori that healed them, and the figure that stepped in is Oden's ghost, given what we know about ghost imagery in the Wano arc, and the fire festival celebrating the dead, and the fact that Big Mom destroyed the sacred tree that Sasaki was tied to. It's the theory I'm currently leaning towards.

[keen portal]

So the whole "she has an unknown mission from 800 years ago" is a giant fan headcanon that they want fulfilled

[last halo]

It did the moment she got mad at Oden for even suggesting her to jump 20 years into the future.

[plush pike]

But arghhh, no matter what I think of, there still is the problem with Kawamatsu saying something he would probably never say about Hiyori without some lame "it was dark and he could've been mistaken" excuse.

[last halo]

And if anything, that she being from 800 years ago is something to be developed later when we get info on the void century

[heavy nexus]

yeah thats another reason why i thought of that, though u guys have a point with what she said in the flashback

[chilly helm]

Tbh, I hope we get a void century arc

[wet shoal]

@chilly helm 100% will get one lol

[chilly helm]

We'll have to wait and see, though I doubt we'll get anything till Laugh tale

[wet shoal]

imagine if oda makes the ending as good as the rest of the manga 🤤 🤤 🤤

[chilly helm]

On the same train of though I don't think the final war will happen till after laugh tale either

Though I have no idea what the navy is up to.

[lament cave]

anybody have ideas on how the df cycle works when people with df travel through time? has the time fruit just not existed for the past 800 years

[dusky acorn]

When someone with the Toki power travels, it remains with them as the only existence of the fruit. For Toki's case, the fruit didn't exist for many of those past 800 years, since she's still the sole wielder of it whom was always travelling.
Then when the user dies, the fruit respawns as normal in whatever time the person meets their end at. I guess you could say the Toki fruit might be the single most rarest fruit in the series precisely because of that. It's literally impossible to find if the fruit wielder transported ahead somewhere and doesn't yet exist in your timeline.

Though, if you meant others with devil fruits who get transported with the fruit, their fruits should also respawn as per normal in the time they travelled to

[lament cave]

thats crazy

[thick sky]

yeah, this is the most reasonable and logical explanation

[ionic wigeon]

oden is ok

toki is alive timey wimey

blah blah blah

[dusky acorn]

Cool prediction, but maybe try elaborating on it more. Barely typing any text and in a shitposty way to boot isn't really productive to spark much discussion.

[pastel summit]

I have a theory, but so lazy to even formulate it, or even think of actually what the conclusion is.

burdened with knowledge, shackled by laziness.

[dark palm]

just do it

or at least say the hypothesis

[pastel summit]

I have to actually think of the hypothesis. I just think there are a lot of really relevant clues that tie into a grander idea.

But it relates to sky islanders.

essentially, what we see from sky islanders, is they have some appreciation for land/earth, which imo, stems from their origin of being moon people. It might be some inherent longing of their true homeland. And either, this ties into "they left the moon for some specific reason, which they recorded on the moon itself, which leads to Enel's return" or it's that there's some relevance to going back to the moon.

[queen arrow]

they left the moon to the blue planet for resources

[pastel summit]

Alternatively, the moon is not their homeland, and some place they weren't native to, but managed to reach via some ancient technology, which they longed for because sky islanders literally inherently value the earth.

[dusky acorn]

I've been pretty intrigued in the sky islands myself ever since researching pretty much everything about Urouge lol.
Been wanting to learn more about the different sky cultures and all that. Like, what if there's some kind of island in the sky where some people can actually read poneglyphs or something. It might make sense since these places are such secluded areas that are hardly known about and perhaps couldn't have been genocided.

[queen arrow]

pretty sure that's said in the cover story itself

[pastel summit]

Yes, but there could be a deeper reason

than just "leave for resources". why not return if the goal was to only go for resources?

I don't think the murals we saw in Enel's cover story were the whole story.

[queen arrow]

because there wasn't any reason to go back

when a tribe leaves a place because of a lack of resources, they move to where the resources are and stay there

[pastel summit]

they left the moon to the blue planet for resources, where they then stayed on sky islands which do not even grow resources.

[dusky acorn]

Enel's return would be pretty hype for my agenda and it's respectable to try theorizing on, but it doesn't seem too possible considering his speech of it being the place he belongs as "god" and all that.. Unless he like, saw/deciphered something there on the moon that triggered an urge to come back to Earth like the people of old who lived there did. And so the cycle continues in a sense

[pastel summit]

I still think there's something there. Something inherent to sky islanders. Birkans and Skypeians have similar legends about the moon.

or not the moon, but "vearth", and they consider the moon "endless vearth"

[queen arrow]

Birkans and Skypieans both descend from the people from the moon, same thing applies to the Shandians

[pastel summit]

yes I know that.

[ionic wigeon]

Honestly I just think it's really probable knowing that odens wife can probably travel throughout time

It wouldn't make sense for oden to not return at one point. To me atleast

[queen arrow]

the Shandians didn't have the "Vearth" thing going on even though they also come from the moon

[pastel summit]

The theory is that they still maintain this inherent longing for it, despite being from there. The Shandians may have been the only ones who successfully migrated to below the clouds, and they fought tooth and nail for that ground.

[ionic wigeon]

Even if he's not here for long. I'd atleast want him to see kaido once more.

[pastel summit]

they did long for the vearth though.

[queen arrow]

the Shandians fought for their land, which had the light of Shandora and all that stuff

it was never for something like why the Skypieans wanted it

[pastel summit]

Yes. I know there's a reason, I'm saying there's a deeper, more inherent reason for why they fight.

[ionic wigeon]

Also another theory I believe in whitebeard went to raftel after Roger and basically saw the one piece.

[timid fiber]

why

[lunar shell]

BS

[dusky acorn]

I don't think this 'Oden' is going to get a chance to actually meet Kaido depending on who it is Goro. They're probably just here for a secluded plot-line with the Scabbards/Hiyori.
I like Oden too, but it's too implausible to piece his return together given the circumstances. I think Toki's fruit has already served its purpose

Whitebeard said he wasn't interest in OP, so that's a huge no too

[ionic wigeon]

Yeah

[ionic wigeon]

But he saw it. He knew what it was.

How would he have known?

[timid fiber]

ace wanted him to be the king

[lunar shell]

No he just said he knew it existed

[dusky acorn]

Oh, you're talking about how he proclaimed it existed

Well, Whitebeard could have just believed Roger to such an extent. Whitebeard was never someone like Mock Town Bellamy who disbelieves tall tales, so it makes sense he believes it, seeing it or not

[ionic wigeon]

That or he saw it. And didn't want it

[plush pike]

Because it ties in with the Will of D. and Roger told Whitebeard all about it. It's clearly shown right before he says "One Piece is real" that this is where he gets the information.

[ionic wigeon]

Oh shit. It's okabe he knows the future can't argue with this

[lunar shell]

Now that you say that it make me wonder if the D. Has something to do with the one piece

I wouldnt think so but..

[ionic wigeon]

Regardless. I have a theory of the one piece I think it has something to do with the power of "Rule" like to rule above all

Something like that it's probably why everyone's after the bloody thing

[lunar shell]

For me the one is real treasur. But it has more value if left alone

One piece*

[timid fiber]

roger was early for it to be useful to him

[ionic wigeon]

And after whitebeards speech about a war that will engulf the world it kinda sounds plausible

[lunar shell]

Make he was too early to do was is writer in laugh tail

[plush pike]

I think the One Piece involves a decision given Rayleigh's word about it. So it's something that can be either utilized or left alone.

[lunar shell]

Clearly poseidon is needed

[lunar shell]

He said that about the forgotten century thought

[timid fiber]

or its just a load of information and no real object to obtain

[ionic wigeon]

The op could be anything but I think it's gonna dig up graves that never should be undug

[lunar shell]

Oda sais one piece was phisical

[timid fiber]

shit

[ionic wigeon]

As I'm saying it could be the power to rule all. Idfk

[plush pike]

No he didn't. He specifically said it was not something like "the growth your heart went through" or "the friends we made along the way".

[ionic wigeon]

The one piece is Poseidon x100

[lunar shell]

Clearly not for so many reason

[pastel summit]

https://i.imgur.com/NfojkSY.png https://i.imgur.com/e0TqiXt.png
https://i.imgur.com/wBQ0vxa.png
I think there's definitely more here than just it being a plot point for the fight over Upper Yard, especially given the context of Enel's cover story, and that these people seemingly did originate from "vearth".

[plush pike]

If the One Piece is simply power, then I'm quitting the series lol.

[lunar shell]

Oh ok thanks for correcting me

[timid fiber]

at that point leaving the series is too late

[ionic wigeon]

Like it would be power.... But like that's not all power would probably be tiny little portion of it.

[lunar shell]

Also we know from doffy that maryjoie has a secret power, clearly substential. Maybe its linked

[ionic wigeon]

I hope it's a button that nukes the redline for memes

[lunar shell]

Maybe this power used with the right hand could be the one piece, or create it

Luffy will nuke maryjoie all the way down to the fishmen island

[ionic wigeon]

The one piece is like the Excalibur

So Blackbeard will try and take it and it just won't respond

[timid fiber]

he needs a workout plan

[lunar shell]

There are also those bridges that are being build just after the forgoten century...

[ionic wigeon]

The one piece is a person.

[lunar shell]

Why can't I figure this out...

[ionic wigeon]

Just calls black beard a uggo and doesn't let him activate shit

[timid fiber]

BB casually destroying raftel after reaching there

[ionic wigeon]

Blackbeard dies after activating the op

[timid fiber]

lmoa

[ionic wigeon]

And gets yeeted to impel down

The one piece is the bara bara no mi

Guess I really do have to be serious

You know the one piece could be pretty much anything so I'm taking random guesses sorry for memeing around mods.

[pastel summit]

I mean, if you want to take random guesses, you can just go to #manga

[timid fiber]

lmao

[ionic wigeon]

I have some serious theories too lmao

[pastel summit]

then say them.

instead of "one piece is the bara bara no mi". if you just want to shitpost, you can do it in other channels.

[ionic wigeon]

Wtf is Blackbeard. Like dude probably has like 3 devil fruits.

Lets start a discussion. Shall we?

[keen portal]

give ur thoery

[ionic wigeon]

I think he has a Zoan that allows him to have more than one fruit

[pastel summit]

why do you think there would be a zoan that allows that?

[keen portal]

and which zoan, to be precise? and why hasnt he ever transformed into, or shown a part of said zoan?

[dusky acorn]

If a Zoan fruit allowed that, it would be widely known, at least if it were one of the fruits in the encyclopedia

Whatever is up with Blackbeard, it should be something inherrent to his human body

[ionic wigeon]

It might be a logia

I have no blinking idea but it Might be because of his dark fruit.

[pastel summit]

why do you think another devil fruit would allow you to eat another devil fruit?

[ionic wigeon]

With that dark ability he could absorb it right?

I can't remember that fruit name I dislike Blackbeard that much

[pastel summit]

He could draw in the power, but he never used it.

and by that logic, wouldn't that mean he'd have to use his darkness power in order to use the other fruit? But when he uses them in MF, he uses them separately.

[dusky acorn]

Honestly the same thing I just said also goes for the Yami. Having such an amazing power paired with the Yami should have been a known fact considering it's already been well documented as the most "dangerous" fruit in the encyclopedia.

Finding a second fruit may be hard for any user of the Yami, but the predisposition of the fruit implies it was already wielded by extraordinary figures, who would have likely stumbled upon another power and noticed that 2nd DF mechanic works out even before BB.
To put it in perspective, there's been centuries with these fruits out and about and for that kind of altercation to already happen. I'd need to suspend my belief for Bb to somehow only now be the first one to try it tbh.
Basically I don't think it's due to his fruit.

[pastel summit]

man, I might become a moontruther the more I look into this skypeia stuff.

[dusky acorn]

And nice Choc, that theory you're crafting sounds like it has a lot of doors to dig into, looking forward to whenever you finish though

[grizzled fog]

Moontruther? Which moon theory does that refer to

Pls tell me it’s not raftel on the moon

[pastel summit]

the idea that the moon is relevant to the larger story.

[grizzled fog]

Oh, well I could see it being further connected to some stuff, considering how prevalent it is in the story

What are all the moon references/connections so far? Kozuki clan, minks, origin of the Sky people...

[pastel summit]

I don't think Raftel will be on the moon. Looking at this stuff, I'm leaning towards the city on the moon being the ancient kingdom, or part of it. really depends.

something I don't think I see many people actually talk about is that the moon city was actually called Birka. which is fair, because looking into it now, I only just remembered that.

[grizzled fog]

wh

How’d I forget that, so the earth birka was named after it, interesting

[pastel summit]

ties into this. Birkans had a legend that those who reside on the moon were "God"

[pastel summit]

wow, I've read into this even more. Other people have made similar theories, and connections I hadn't even thought of.

[lunar shell]

Clearly BB can use two fruit cuz of what marco said about his weird body

Oda wouldnt have say that trought marco otherwise-yoi

[brisk kettle]

!p

[ancient vault]

I've read similar theories. Later today when I get on my pc I could link you a very long one regarding skypiea, moon and enel if you want to read it, just remind me with an @ or sth. It was pretty good imo

[pastel summit]

http://www.onepiecegold.com/tag/enel-roots-and-his-connection-to-the-the-ancient-kingdom/
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/avglxb/the_ultimate_theory_enel_minks_alabasta_and_more/

these are 2 that I read that were pretty good.

I think there could be something more that we can explore though, with Wano being called "the land of gold" once upon a time. I wonder what the connection between shandora is there, if there is any.

[pure raven]

I love these Skypiea theories

[random yacht]

skypiea theories are always nice

[wooden topaz]

waiting for Enel comeback is the most excited i ever done.

[jaunty turret]

Shinobu will use all of her lifeforce to evaporate onigashima before it falls, giving up her life in the process

[hallow nymph]

oden is really still alive since 20 years ago and im pretty sure oden is in the present because oden said you're so much older now and oden is not illusion or is he?

[cyan berry]

We see Oden get boiled alive for a few hours and then get shot in the head by Kaido, causing him to fall with his entire body into the vat of boiling oil. By all accounts, Oden is dead as dirt.

[pure raven]

This Fauxden said "you've aged" but none of the scabbards have actually aged (significantly, appearance-wise) since they were sent to the future on the same day Oden died.

[keen portal]

appearance wise, izo inu neko have quite some

also lul Izo is right there as a scabbard, when last Oden bid farewell to him 25 years ago as WB's crewmate

[pastel summit]

the ones who have mainly changed are... denjiro.

neko and inu are just kinda bigger. even then, they were still pretty big 20 yrs ago

ashura is also just... the same.

[desert abyss]

it's the real oden no doubt.

[pastel summit]

kawamatsu is also pretty similar to how he looked 20 yrs ago. the rest are time travellers, and also no kanjuro. Oden never knew Kanjuro was a traitor, and it's been even longer since he met izo, ye.

wish I could have that much confidence that Oda is a hack writer. Not sure why you think it's Oden without a doubt.

[desert abyss]

we can already eliminate kanjuro from the theory because of the swords. not enma and the other one. if its kanjuro he would drew a perfect copy of the swords also.

[pastel summit]

neither were in Oden's possession when he died.

so if anything, that attention to detail can make sense with Kanjuro.

[desert abyss]

so the only probable choices remains are:

1. Toki and Oden from the past.
2. Onimaru and Hiyori.

[pastel summit]

Enma is with Zoro, and Ame no Habakiri is with Hitetsu.

[gilded wagon]

Theory incoming

Yamato devil fruit theory

Hey guys this is my first theory, but I’m putting it out there in hopes that y’all dissect it and come up with logical counter arguments. Without further ado, I believe Yamato is a nue.
I know this isn’t a super original thought, many others have theorized this before, but I feel that there’s some context clues that point to this that haven’t been explored.

Firstly, the connection to the story of Momotaro. I think this is the most important one. We all know by now the story of momotaro and how he befriends a pheasant, dog, and Monkey on his quest to onigashima. We know that both Tama and Momo kind of represent momotaro.

Originally, most thought of this to be Luffy(monkey), Marco(pheasant), and Inuarashi(dog). But I believe in the same way that oda made two different momotaro’s for this arc, theres 2 different groups of allies that represent the pheasant, dog and monkey.

For Tama, it’s Komacchiyo, Marco the Phoenix, and Hihimaru.

For Momonosuke, it is Monkey D. Luffy, Inuarashi, and lastly

Yamato, The Nue.

“What is a Nue?” essentially a Japanese Chimera, It has the head of a monkey, the body of a tanuki, the tail of a snake, and the limbs of a tiger. But in the past, “Nue” referred to a white thrush or a green pheasant. Yamato’s hair is two toned, white and green.

Yamato’s identity since their introduction has felt almost intentionally confusing. The idiot son of Kaido. The Hannya mask wearing monstrous son of Kaido, who put down Ulti with one thunder bagua. The daughter of Kaido, The future shogun of New Onigashima, The Kozuki Oden Stan, The next straw hat, the Zoan devil fruit wielding protector of Momonosuke, the wielder of Odens journal. The man. The woman. The “chimera” so to speak

In the story of momotaro, the green pheasant was chosen by momotaro to do reconnaissance missions due to its bravery. Yamato is the one that has given us info on kaidos devil fruit. Yamato is quite literally carrying the journal of oden, which holds all the info of his voyage with Roger. Yamato knows of the prophecy, Yamato knows that Momonosuke is the one that will bring the dawn

Lastly, I don’t think this is that important but the National bird of Japan is the green pheasant, and the Koi is the National fish.

Kaido has a mythical Koi fruit,
Yamato has a mythical pheasant fruit

[pastel summit]

interesting theory.

[keen portal]

ok but kaido is not a mythical koi. his fruit is "Uo Uo no Mi, model: Seiryuu"

fish fish fruit, model: Azure Dragon. Kaido's char concept might be based on the legend of the koi that makes it on top of the waterfall? perhaps. But the fruit itself is not a Koi fruit.

[pastel summit]

the only thing is that yamato's transformation did have fangs. Are you suggesting that the connection to Momotaro is simply that "Nue" used to refer to a type of pheasant?

while the fruit would allow her to transform into a Nue?

the idea of her character being an amalgamation of different things, would be pretty cool for her DF to do the same.

[pure raven]

Does the pheasant have carnivorous-style sharp teeth?

[hallow spoke]

I figure yamato was a dragon like kaido, since they referenced heritage lineage in the last chapter

[gilded wagon]

No, But fish typically aren’t dragons either

[gilded wagon]

That was a reference to Momonosuke

[cyan berry]

Oda has said that his fruit is a mythical Zoan though

[keen portal]

yes its a mythical variant of the Uo Uo no Mi

[hallow spoke]

Well momo just ate the fruit, it was 2 different conversations. One was about the fruit vegapunkade, the other was about linage heritage, which I saw as giving birth to new devil fruit users.

[cyan berry]

Yes? Just like how Sengoku's is a mythical variant of the Human Fruit

Oh you're arguing about the koi bit, not mythical

[keen portal]

koi referring specifically to a carp fruit. I'm saying its not a carp

[cyan berry]

My bad

[gilded wagon]

I think you gotta reread that conversation in context

Heritage was never mentioned lol

[night jewel]

Biggest issue with Yamato having the Nue fruit is that it already appeared in Non Canon Material, oda has specifically said that the devil fruits included in Non Canon material are devil fruits that will not appear in the Main Story.... he is always consulted about this stuff and only approves ideas that he doesnt wish to use in the Main Story, so take that as you will

[hallow spoke]

You are right, it was blood line elements

So by that line alone isn’t fair to say maybe yamato has some of kaido ability since that blood line lead to an artificial fruit with his power. Not the same but similar.

[gilded wagon]

Did he actually say that or are you interpreting his statement? Cause the “Non canon” material the Nue appeared in was literally just a poster wasn’t it?

[hallow spoke]

You know what that might be a stretch cause big mom has an army of kids and there nothing like her.

[night jewel]

its like a story for an exhibition told through a series of artwork, not just a single poster...
And Oda said that about the devil fruits that appear in the anime, I think

[raw parrot]

One piece might be another poneglyph. One of the kind, of different color, having key info on void century.

[night jewel]

D: Odacchi! I have a question. Do you come up with the Devil Fruit Powers that are original to the Anime show? Let me know.

O: Basically, all that happens is that the anime's scriptwriters come up with powers that they want to use in the story, and I say "Yeah, that sounds good," or "No, sorry, I want to use that one in the future." That's all. - SBS Volume 37

"original to the anime show" = Non Canon, which the One Piece NUE Series is as well

[gilded wagon]

I think that’s a huge stretch, considering the one piece NUE series was just a collection of stamps, a poster, and one color spread, but I can totally see why that would make you believe she ISNT a Nue

[night jewel]

https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/One_Piece_Art_NUE
no no, its not just that, check this article from wiki about it

Its a series of Artwork drawn in the Ukiyo-E style for the One Piece x Kyoto Exhibition, it tells its own plot which btw, directly contradicts the main story as well, such as the inclusion of another region of Wano "Yo", or the strawhats being in Wano before, etc....

[gilded wagon]

Oda is so dope for being able to come up with this on the fly

I just read that link you posted

[night jewel]

I wouldnt say its a huge stretch, wouldnt even call it a stretch, its a non canon story just like the ones included in the Anime, so I will say the same rules apply to it as well

[gilded wagon]

But he never said “non canon story” or any of that nonsense, all he said was that he either approves or denies the fruits that the screenwriters want to use. You’re taking that statement out of context to fit your narrative of canon and non canon material. Statements don’t work like that

Also this was a statement made 11 years ago

[night jewel]

feel like you are too hung up on what I said, I already clarified what I meant by "non canon material", and it doesnt matter how long ago he said it, it still applies, its not like recently a devil fruit that appeared in Non Canon material like anime/manga/games/movies and whatnot has also appeared in the manga, nothing has changed.

[pure raven]

It's your theory, or search good to the reddit?

[night jewel]

its his theory

[quaint haven]

So im sure this has been discussed maybe even answered an iv missed it. What is the connection between buggy an shanks. Are they related? Latest anime episode made me wonder why Roger had the 2 kids on his ship

[outer schooner]

Is it possible that king is the same species as urouge? They both have wings which not really common things to have (i assumed). If let's say king's fire head is not a species trait, is this possible?

[jaunty turret]

Buggy was more impressive as a kid than adult

[keen portal]

But then BM wouldnt have said King is the last remaining member of his kind. BM knows urouge exists.

[outer schooner]

Does she though? Urouge has kinda separated from other supernova

[keen portal]

Urouge attacked and defeated her sweet commander son Snack. She def knows about him lol

[outer schooner]

Ah i see, that make sense

[keen portal]

Also urouge is likely a birkan, going off from his adult shaped wings. And birkans exist elsewhere

[bold gull]

is hitetsu the same species as king?

[cyan berry]

Do you see fire behind his back?

[bold gull]

king's fire is mostly on its head

[cyan berry]

Stop avoiding the question, do you see any fire floating behind Hitetsu?

[bold gull]

i don't see how the question is relevant to the matter

no i don't

[cyan berry]

Why do you think fire just floats behind King? It's a thing his race has, and no other character in the series has anything remotely close to that, even winged characters like Skypieans

Big Mom said he was the last of his race, and she is more qualified than anyone to know that

[pure raven]

SET UP ARC FOR FINAL WAR Return to Impel down.... Straw hats and Rev Army go to save Sabo who got sent there, leading to them teaming up and planning the war. Bon Clay joins Straw hats??? Also it'd be like Sabaody-Impel Down-Marineford..... as Lodestar/Raftel - Impel Down 2- Final War

ik the whole idea of sabo going there is lazy, but itd be a easy way to combine the Straw hats and revolutionaries

[cyan berry]

Marineford 2.0 would be a garbage plot twist and writing point

[pure raven]

final war has already been confirmed

[cyan berry]

Sabo is nowhere near as important as Ace was before his death, one of them is the son of the pirate king and the other is a noble turned revolutionary

[pure raven]

he is important to Luffy and Dragon tho?

im saying Luffy/Dragon save him and decide to take down the WG after

[cyan berry]

The most hype answer in your mind is not always the best one, and this is a classic case of that

[pure raven]

so you are saying there wont be a Final War

[thick sky]

Youss is talking about him being important to gov

[cyan berry]

There are better ways for them to meet than reusing an old plot thread 1:1

[pure raven]

thats not what i said tho? so idk wtf hes saying

[thick sky]

with another reason and another plotline

[cyan berry]

I'm saying that the final war will be a lot better written than whatever you proposed

[pure raven]

im saying its how theyd meet

[thick sky]

^^^this

[cyan berry]

Reusing Sabo ESPECIALLY when he said that he'd always protect Luffy would be actual trash

[pure raven]

not why the war would exist

[thick sky]

sabo being captured would be redundant

[pure raven]

so what happened to him then

[cyan berry]

Who knows? It was left unclear for a reason, to get us to question it

[pure raven]

so he died...Like ace....or got captured....like ace?

[thick sky]

he's on the run. and that cp0 agent was sent to Morgans for reverse psychology to make him post that piece of news on the front page

[cyan berry]

He's either captured, framed for something, or on the run with no means of communication

Or all 3 at once

[thick sky]

well I do expect another friendly party to arrive at Wano tho. CP0 would be there hunting when both of the warring parties are near death

[thick sky]

captured and on the run -- both can't be simultaneously. so all 3 at once isn't possible

[cyan berry]

He can be trapped in a location trying to escape or is currently being tracked as he and the others run

[thick sky]

Ah! makes sense

[bold gull]

I think cp0 will not fight in wano. in the last chapter there was that note about momo's df. I think once they will become aware that is wasn't a complete failure they will capture either momo or kaido and go to vegapunk to make him reproduce it.

this would set up the next arc. the straw hats pursuing cp0 and meeting vegapunk

[quaint haven]

Zoro an killer to fight big mom luffy kid an law to fight kaido

[visual merlin]

probably wouldn't go too well for zoro and killer

[small hornet]

i think queen is sanjis uncle

[cyan berry]

Please refer to the channel topic before you send a message here :)

[small hornet]

oh sorry

[outer schooner]

If they realized the df isn't a failure, i don't think theyll capture any of those, vegapunk will just experiment on other mythical zoan

[bold gull]

i think that at some point was stated that the celestial dragon explicitly wanted vegapunk to reproduce kaido's fruit

although it wasn't explained why

[obtuse void]

hey if there is 7 moon , so like a full moon a week ?

[hollow kite]

lodestar and raftel arent the same right? so acc to you the war will happen after luffy becomes pirate king

[supple topaz]

nah probably not, theres no reason for them to be mentioned separately otherwise

[torpid mist]

Any proof the egg on Roger's ship is NOT big news Morgan?

[supple topaz]

that would make a lot of sense imo

but then wouldnt that just be a repeat of like the transition from impel down to marineford?? also you mention supposedly saving sabo from impel down, and that already happened once when they tried to save ace from impel down

i really dont think that oda would repeat as obvious of a plot progression as this

i think it'll be more along the lines of something like a major clue to where or what the one piece is and how to get it, and multiple parties and sides go to war for the one piece

of course this is where the rev army, wg, bb pirates, all the yonkos and supernovas will go head to head supposing something like this happens

[queen arrow]

humans aren't born from eggs, Morgans is confirmed to be a devil fruit user, also Morgans is 53 and his newspaper already existed when Roger had the egg in his ship

[supple topaz]

tbh if it would happen it would feel something like when the world and the black market and basically every pirate found out about the ope ope no mi and wanted to get their hands on it

something like that

[hollow grotto]

Morgans just prefers to stay in his Zoan form (now that I think about it, it's probably a hybrid form.)

[torpid mist]

Well thats a pretty good argument

[pure raven]

Do you guys think we may already know who Im Sama is?

[lunar whale]

Probably not

[orchid oracle]

Nah he needs to be kept secret from the world

[queen arrow]

i'm pretty sure Im is just Im

[pure raven]

not the same but either would work depending on whether raftel is last

[tiny forum]

https://twitter.com/tdeelab/status/1373666952850325507?s=19

[pure raven]

thats the same reason why i think him having conq is very likely and the argument " why hasnt he used it yet" is because Luffy always has to do the hardest stuff and has to be the leader

so his strength could be argued with the same reasoning

[zinc iris]

what is the point of conq

[pure raven]

able to assert will on others

[zinc iris]

beside some bragging rights

[pure raven]

it will take down fodder in seconds and it makes you seem more powerful yknow

[zinc iris]

it's not some entry pass for the big boys club

[pure raven]

well yes... but its important and saved for only those who deserve it

[zinc iris]

deserve what?

it's something that happens depending on character type, and has no use in actual combat against non fodder

[pure raven]

its earned through strength of will... awarded by Oda

[pure raven]

so why did Luffy use it vs Doffy?

[zinc iris]

so it's not even a matter of fulfilling some power threshold, hence the "big boys club"

[pure raven]

still didnt say that

[zinc iris]

so far the two arguments I've ever heard about why zoro should have conq just boil down to "he's based so he should have the cool exclusive power even if he has no use for it" or about blindly mimicking Silvers Rayleigh

[pure raven]

also name 1 proven weak character who has it

well i didnt use those arguments

[zinc iris]

Ace

[pure raven]

fair..but his dad was Roger

[zinc iris]

also on a more serious level, don chinjao

[pure raven]

is he that weak?

sure he isnt garp/luffy level but he was definitely a strong fighter in his prime

[zinc iris]

went down in a ginsle blow from non g4 luffy in dressrosa and his bounty never went past 500M

he's not a weakling in absolute terms but in the new world he's barely average

[pure raven]

dude was like 30 yrs out of his prime

[zinc iris]

even at his best he still was like 500M tops

[pure raven]

thats stronger than 99% of other pirates...

conq haki isnt just randomly handed out like some DFs

[zinc iris]

conqueror doesn't make you strong per se either

[pure raven]

ik

[zinc iris]

and doesn't give an edge when others are close to your rank

[pure raven]

but only people who are strong get it....nobody weak gets it

[zinc iris]

if kaido didn't have conqueror's haki, his relative power to big mom would be the same with no difference whastoever in a clash

[pure raven]

sure...

but i find it too convenient for almost every powerful. person in the world of OP to have it....

[zinc iris]

maybe (technically cannot be proven), but to expect any strong character to have it just because

[pure raven]

no

[keen portal]

It's not only physical strength. Anyone with the disposition of a king, the character of a ruler gets it

[pure raven]

I would see anyone with it as strong

[zinc iris]

like mihawk is one of the strongest in the world yet I would never make a case for him having conqueror only for that

[pure raven]

thats still not my point

i said ALL CONQ USERS ARE STRONG not ALL STRONG PEOPLE ARE CONQ USERS

huge difference and this timer is so annoying

There could be haoshoku users that are physically weak that we haven't met before.

[zinc iris]

so why zoro should have it

[zinc iris]

I expect momo to have it

[errant oxide]

There’s probably many many more people with it that just don’t undergo the training or anything to unlock it

[pure raven]

hes young not weak

so young ace had it...became strong

[errant oxide]

They said one in a million/several million people have it. Which would mean there’s so many people that can have it

[zinc iris]

ace got hard carried by a logia

[pure raven]

"Only one in several million people have this ability."

means nothing without a population

[pure raven]

Means nothing without a population.

literally less than 10m people in OP world

Where has this number been given?

[pure raven]

no it doesnt? name one seen conq user who is PROVEN to be weak

[errant oxide]

Alabasta is 10 million people alone lol

Fish man island is like 6 or 7 million

[pure raven]

meant 100m

[zinc iris]

It's safe to assume the population of the OP world is in the same ballpark of the real world

[errant oxide]

There’s no way there’s less than 100 million LOL

[pure raven]

ok

[errant oxide]

if you think 1/10th of the population of the world comes from Alabasta then you’re really out of your mind

[pure raven]

so say there is 1B people... 1 in several million lets say 1 in 5,000,000 which is like 2000 users

[errant oxide]

Right so is it really crazy for many of the strong people to have Haoshoku?

[pure raven]

i mean no

based on info we have...only strong people have it....or people with unproven strength

[zinc iris]

you can at best argue that anyone with conqueror is destined to greatness because of some correlation in destini and what grants people the conq ability

but all of this is orthogonal to zoro having it just because he's strong and luffy's bro

[pure raven]

im saying the argument saying "he hasnt used it yet so he doesnt have it" is invalid......thats my entire point

Haki is sometimes awakened.

Anybody could theoretically be revealed to be a haoshoku user.

no

[zinc iris]

well, yes

[pure raven]

you are either born with the ability to awaken it....or not

[errant oxide]

The people with the qualities of a king. It makes sense that those people would rise to power. Of course Luffy as he wants to become king of the pirates. Ace would make sense as he started his own crew to become the king too, and eventually because the second division commander for the strongest pirate crew. The strongest pirates and marines and revolutionaries SHOULD have it. As well as normal citizens on different islands because it just means they should be able to lead. Dalton could have it too from Chopper’s island.

[zinc iris]

not all forms of haki are attained at once, so it can be that someone was born with it but didn't unlock it yet

[pure raven]

who here is PROVEN to be weak in their prime

[zinc iris]

it's not like luffy was knocking people out by looking at them since birth, it only started happening after TB

[pure raven]

exactly what i said

[errant oxide]

Weak? In their prime?

[pure raven]

You just said 'no' to me when I said that.

when at their STRONGEST who there was weak

ONLY PEOPLE BORN WITH IT CAN AWAKEN IT...not anybody

You can be born with haoshoku and not awaken it in your life.

[errant oxide]

Why should any of them be weak?

[pure raven]

cause thats my argument....that we can assume that all users are strong....scroll up

Using all-caps doesn't make your ramblings any more compelling so you can stop that

[zinc iris]

it's the leader that should have it because they are leaders, rather than those beyond a power threshold just because
unless, like, Jack has it

[pure raven]

and spamming reactions doesnt either

[errant oxide]

Not all users have to be strong. It never states that anywhere in the story

[pure raven]

ik

[zinc iris]

having conq is more about being a leader type than power thresholds

[pure raven]

but im saying BASED on the current users....no real weak people have it

[errant oxide]

Because why would Oda go off the story to show us it?

[zinc iris]

well I was answering that because you said "the strongest pirates/marines/revos should have it"

[pure raven]

yes...but part of that in OP is being able to stand above otheres which requires sterngth

[errant oxide]

The only real reason he would is if a king we knew has it like Dalton or someone

[pure raven]

^

[pure raven]

Strength of will. Not necessarily physical strength.

its both

[zinc iris]

up to a point, more often than not luffy didn't win out of superior strength but because he had enough people to help him succeed

[errant oxide]

Haoshoku is literally Willpower

[pure raven]

yup... but i think its a mix of both...like you cant stand above others if you are strong as CH3 Koby

[zinc iris]

haki mesans willpower, haoshoku is supreme king color

[pure raven]

All living beings in the world are capable of learning Haki; however, most people do not notice it or fail to awaken it.
What is written in the manga to suggest that somebody can't be born with haoshoku and not awaken it, @pure raven?

that quote has 0 to do with it

[errant oxide]

But really weak characters can and have been shown to possess Haki. Not Haoshoku yet, but it could happen. It’s not like a 10 year old that hasn’t grown or accomplished anything should be able to use it

[pure raven]

im just basing my claim off of what characters have it now

Your claim goes beyond the here and now.

you just said that quote....which is literally about the other 2 forms

go re-read rayleigh training chapters pre-ts

You didn't qualify this with 'all current conq users'

It's already been stated u can't unlock Conquerors Haki through training..... it's very rare and u have to be born with it

[pure raven]

Ah yes, the classic re-read

[pure raven]

maybe scroll up

reaction spam still not gonna win you an argument

[zinc iris]

ok

[pure raven]

I'm not trying to win anything. Don't project that onto me.
I'm just here to discuss some theories.

you are literally trying hard to disprove me...get mad when you are wrong then spam reactions

[zinc iris]

all of this is going in circles

[pure raven]

I'm not mad. Stop trying to project that onto me.

1. You're saying that all conqueror's users are strong.
2. We said that it's possible for there to be a conqueror's user in the One Piece world (due to its great population and how 1/x million are born with conq) that is weak.
3. You changed your statement to mean that all currently revealed conq users are strong.
   There's no issue there.

back with reaction spam?

[main sigil]

This sounds about right

[pure raven]

Ok clearly you take me disagreeing with you as some form of antagonisation so I'm just gonna stop. Enjoy the rest of your day bro

[zinc iris]

back to the original issue

[pure raven]

you literally have to be born with it

[zinc iris]

it's possible that every single character is a conq user that simply hasn't revealed/unlocked such ability yet so on a purely logical ground you can't argue "X doesn't have conq"
so yes it's technically possible zoro has conque and we just didn't see it yet
but I don't see any compelling argument for why this should happen

[pure raven]

You either have it or dont have it... you can have it but not awaken it....but you cant awaken it without having it

[bold gull]

that's not what what rayleigh is saying in the panel though

[pure raven]

pair it with the Garp quote

"luffy was born with it" meaning that you can be born with it

[zinc iris]

yes yes

but I'm more about the extradiegetical point

[zinc iris]

I refer back to this

I'm going to word it the least ambiguous way
What is your argument for which it should happen that the story reveals zoro was born with access to conqueror haki?

[mild kite]

You think Zoro doesnt have it?

[zinc iris]

I'm not going to make a hard statement, but I'm unconvinced on the idea of zoro having it even if it technically can happen

I don't see the "appropriatedness" so to speak

[mild kite]

What % chance would you give zoro having it?

[zinc iris]

30%

[mild kite]

We just disagree then. I think he's getting it for sure. I dont see Oda not giving it to Zoro

[zinc iris]

But it's almost meaningless, I'm going to quote myself again on how i go about this:

but at some point I achieved enlightenment and understood that to make the best theories you have to stick to the themes of one piece, and go more about moral arguments than technical

[zinc iris]

because zoro is cool so he should get into the exclusive club and keeping him out would be a slight to his awesome character?

I mean what's the point of giving him conqueror? I think answering this question is the focal point on why he should have it or not

[mild kite]

Cause I think the story is going for that. He fits the requirements for Conq and so many characters who will be much weaker than him EOS have it. Also, The small rayleigh/zoro parallels are there. If Gold roger had 3 other guys in his crew with conquerors, Why wouldnt luffy not have 1?

[zinc iris]

I think the fandom misunderstands conqueror's importance in the grand scheme of things where if someone doesn't have it is some brand of uncoolness instead of a whatever as it's a mostly useless ability

and here we go with the enforced rayleigh parallel

[dusky acorn]

I'd say Zoro's chances are even lower than that. Like, let alone the 400+ chapters we've been in the New World for Zoro to have chances to awaken it but never doing it, he should have already learned how to use it if he had it like everyone else who has it did over the two years.

Mihawk probably not having Conqeurors being the reason Zoro didn't unlock his third haki type doesn't even matter, if Zoro knew he had it in him it should have went along with his haki training.
Even Kid, who had nobody to teach him haki PEROPD. still awakened his supreme king over the two years. It'd just be sad if Zoro was lagging this far behind, and idk why this notion isn't fathomed enough.

[mild kite]

Well Luffy is a GREAT leader. Zoro having conquerors haki only adds to luffy's greatness. To be able to have another conqueror's haki user on his ship like Roger did.

[zinc iris]

having conqueror doesn't really weigh on zoro's relationship with luffy anyway

[mild kite]

The awaken is different for everyone and depends on circumstances. Ace unlocked it way earlier than luffy when he was a kid because he was put in that situation.

[dusky acorn]

Well, Zoro has been put in just as many dire situations himself. It doesn't seem like he's been in any less difficult situations than Luffy and Ace were to unlock theirs

He's been in near death situations and close calls just as much as them.

[zinc iris]

and again and again and again and again
Luffy is not Roger
Luffy is not Roger 2
Luffy is Luffy

[mild kite]

But you have to look at it narrative wise. ofc Oda is gonna wait for the right moment to have Zoro unlock it.

[zinc iris]

One Piece's inheritance works on a "standing on giants' shoulders" rather than the dumb repetition that instead permeates Naruto

[mild kite]

But there are parallels. No one said they are an exact copy of each other

[pure raven]

If Oda waits any longer, Zoro will have no time to strengthen his conqueror's haki through battles.

(I'm not suggesting that conqueror's haki can be trained. Just the general level of haki 'blooms' or improves over battles)

[mild kite]

Well, maybe he was waiting for Wano? And i dont think Oda is really grinding his gears worrying that Zoro "will not have time to strengthen" his haki.

[zinc iris]

but again, what is the narrative purpose to give zoro conqueror, what is the point beside just fulfilling a repetition with rayleigh

especially considering what Zoro's path actually is

[pure raven]

I'd argue Zoro's 'chances' of having conqueror's were dealt a severe blow when Brook joked about Zoro shaking Onigashima with his haki and Zoro refused.

[mild kite]

Dont think the "path" matters. Luffy doesn't wanna conquer and yet he has conquerors haki. Zoro doesnt want to either

[dusky acorn]

Even looking at it the way you say, Zoro having Conquerors doesn't make for much of a narrative impact, nor does it suddenly makes Zoro a deeper character.
It's like saying other Straw Hats like Nami or Chopper unlocking armament haki would make them better characters, or that Oda is waiting for the right moment. None of this seems to be the case for any of them

[mild kite]

I think it made the chances zoro having conquerors haki in the future more solid. But it's all guessing at this point

[zinc iris]

luffy still is a leader that people follow

I mean I get that there is a similarity with rayleigh in that they are their first and best friend when they set out for adventure, but you are already accomplishing this similarity and there is no need to plop conqueror haki on top of that

[mild kite]

But u clearly saw with the formation of the grand fleet he didnt wanna be "some bigshot" leader. His path to becoming pirate king has nothing to do with him being a leader, just like zoro

[pure raven]

So what narrative impact does Zoro having conqueror's have to the story?

[dusky acorn]

At the end of the day, I rather Zoro not incorporate unnecessary things into his character that don't have to do with pure swordsmanship. It just takes away from his fighting style and proficiency armament haki, which is the real thing that's been built up for him

Like, why can't we just settle for black blades

[mild kite]

It probably wont make him a deeper character, but i dont see that stopping Oda from giving it to him.

[zinc iris]

yeah but in the context of narrative economy you rather need something that pushes him to do that instead of the pure absence of real obstacles

[mild kite]

But how does conquerors haki take away from his swordmanship. I would understand that mentality towards zoro eating a devil fruit, but not this

[dusky acorn]

I mean, the usual way Zoro has gone about dealing with foot-soldiers is using very wide radius moves like dragon twister, which we saw at Fishman Island.
Just having him do the same exact thing as his other crew member, Luffy when it comes to dealing with mobs of foes for example isn't really creative.

[mild kite]

When Zoro unlocks it, it will probably be in a tense situation. He doesnt have to become a "deeper" character. That's not going to stop Oda from giving it to him

[pure raven]

We've already seen Zoro in extremely tense near-death situations.

[zinc iris]

like he got a new magic sword and sanji got a techno suit because shonen trappings dictate they need to have a new power up
but as already seen several times, conqueror is more of a flavor thing than an actual edge in combat

[mild kite]

Zoro having conquerors haki only adds to Luffy's and his own greatness. It's a win-win.

[zinc iris]

i mean what pushes oda

why would oda himself feel compelled to put that in the story

that kind of question

[mild kite]

Why did Oda feel compelled to give Luffy conqueror's haki? He didn't need to do that

[zinc iris]

so it's a matter of perceived greatness as I suspected since the beginning?

[mild kite]

Yeah but narrative-wise, Oda thought it would be better to give it to hom later on. Maybe Wano is when?

[zinc iris]

because luffy is clearly a leader type

[mild kite]

Yeah, That's part of it. It is the same reason why he gave it to Luffy

[amber oar]

Zoro not having CoC and becoming the greatest swordman only adds to his own greatness.

being born a nobody and becoming great > having a birthright power

[mild kite]

Not having CoC adds more then him having it? I dont understand

[amber oar]

I explained immediately later

[mild kite]

He WAS born a nobody. Him having conquerors doesnt change that

[zinc iris]

I'm going to follow up by repeating the claim that it will turn out Zoro is not Ryuma's descendant

[pure raven]

Being born with conqueror's haki makes you special. You're 1 in x million. That's special.

[amber oar]

"Being born with CoC" is not "being born a nobody"

It's a birthright power, that you can awaken or not, but being able is from birth

[mild kite]

Yeah i never really cared for that tbh. Maybe he's a descendant, maybe not

[zinc iris]

he's not but kuina is, so by taking her quest he also became ryuma's heir already

[mild kite]

So Oda shouldnt have given Luffy coc. Because him becoming pirate king being a nobody only adds to his greatness?

[mild kite]

Never thought of it like that. Maybe

[pure raven]

This would be so fitting. I'd love for Zoro to go through this story without getting any other buffs. No conqueror's, no future sight etc. I want to see Zoro reach the peak of swordsmanship, standing above all others by virtue of his own strength, hard work and ability. No Ryuma descendant stuff. No shimotsuki lineage. I just want him to be Roronoa Zoro.

[amber oar]

come to think, both Luffy and Zoro inherited the will of someone whose descendant they grew with

[dusky acorn]

Luffy wasn't ever really a nobody is the thing though lol. He was trained by Garp, taught ideals by Shanks, and was brother of the PK's son

[errant oxide]

So did Sanji

[zinc iris]

I argued this months before it was revealed that indeed both Kuina and Ryuma have the Shimotsuki family name so I'm still bragging about it to this day

[pure raven]

Wait who was Sanji's?

[errant oxide]

Zeff?

[amber oar]

Sanji inherited the will from his direct mentor, he didn't grow with Zeff's son

[grizzled fog]

Not really the same with zeff

[zinc iris]

well there is no chef of legend zeff is a descendant of

[errant oxide]

You didn’t say kid you just said someone he grew with lol

[pure raven]

Nor is Zeff the ancestor of somebody that Sanji grew up with.

[amber oar]

I said descendant

[zinc iris]

he pointed out that zoro growing up with kuina that was the descendant of ryuma is not that different from luffy growing up with ace that was roger's son

[amber oar]

Like, they grew with the person who was supposed to be the heir by blood, but never got to fulfill their wills
Kuina from Ryuma, And Ace from Roger

[zinc iris]

but of course this does not (and need not to) apply to every sh

[amber oar]

just Luffy and Zoro if I'm not wrong

[errant oxide]

Ah I didn’t see the word descendant

[pure raven]

That reminds me of this

(just the whole inheriting will and descendant stuff)

[sacred hawk]

Yeah, but this would mean Shanks was raised on Roger's ship

[zinc iris]

could be tbh, he was there since a very young age

[sacred hawk]

Which would explain this

[amber oar]

aww Rayleigh remembering when he held lil' Cobra in his hands

[sacred hawk]

If Roger picked up Shanks after Rocks died at God Valley, Shanks would have been a 1-year old

[dusky acorn]

That quote from Rayleigh sorta seals it for me. Definitely think either Buggy, Shanks or both were raised as babies/toddlers there

[pure raven]

or Mihawk

[amber oar]

Shanks remembers growing in a West Blue town tho

[amber oar]

por qué no los dos

[dusky acorn]

The West Blue thing has always been the biggest damper on these theories

[sacred hawk]

Counterpoint: What if God Valley was in the west blue?

[olive quail]

A brave idea

[amber oar]

Then again, if Roger was behind the steps of Laugh Tale and the Poneglyphs, a detour to a Blue isn't off the marks. Specally the blue where Ohara was located

[amber oar]

All the fun seems to happen in the Grand Line, so I'd love if God Valley was in the West Blue for a change

[olive quail]

I feel like a secondary settlement of cds would be closer to marijoa though

[pure raven]

There was a massive burning books party in Ohara wym

[dusky acorn]

West and South have been in pretty big need of world building compared to the other 2, so I'd welcome it as well

The other thing that's big in the west is the mafia stuff

[amber oar]

2 years after Roger's death tho

[olive quail]

Well he wouldnt have successfully made it to ohara. Otherwise im sure one of them would have joined him

[amber oar]

They may have refused to help a pirate

[olive quail]

I doubt they care. Especially with the potential of learning the history of the world

[dusky acorn]

And tbh, maybe it makes sense for God valley to have been in one of the Blues, since it's presumably supposed to be some kind of resort for Celestial Dragons?
Probably wouldn't be as fitting for such a place to be in the dangerous Grand Line where the weather can be wild and pirates are amok, who knows.

[olive quail]

They would still have to pass through the gl to get there

[bold gull]

btw what's the point of possessing conqueror haki? I mean yes you can make weak opponents faint for a while but at this point in the story this will be irrelevant in a fight or even a war

[olive quail]

Its the implication i think

[amber oar]

it's just a flex, and a "special guy" mark

[olive quail]

Also that ability can be very useful in war

[amber oar]

To remove fodders, yea

[olive quail]

There could be a further use we havent gotten to, like armament and observation

[dusky acorn]

Ironically as useful as Conqeurors is in war situations, it hasn't been used yet for this current battle lol. Guess Oda is waiting for the perfect time to do the quad-clash on the roof

[olive quail]

Im kinda surprised sengoku has it and im wondering if there's more to his character because of it

[errant oxide]

In very rare occasions possessing Haoshoku Haki can cause the empress of Amazon Lily to fall in love with you

[dusky acorn]

I believe this is shaping up to be the biggest conqeuror clash we've seen yet in the story, so it makes sense to hold off and create suspense for it

[bold gull]

yeah why luffy didn't use it right away in onigashima? there was so much focus on the numbers of kaido's crew

[amber oar]

I don't really think any character needs to be a conqueror, but from its different descriptions you can deduce a type of character that has it. For the most part, charismatic people who naturally lead others and drag them.

Most expectedly seen in captains and authority figures, like Sengoku or Dragon
Even Kata who isn't a captain, is widely regarded as a favorite within the Charlotte children, over Perospero who would be in theory the heir as the eldest son

The only exception to this rule is basically Rayleigh, and I'm very convinced he only got CoC for plot reasons

[olive quail]

Rayleigh was basically a leadership presence in Roger's crew, and i think him being Roger's subordinate is just a testament to Roger himself

[pure raven]

I feel like Rayleigh only had it to explain it to Luffy at that point

[dusky acorn]

The in-story reason for why Luffy didn't use it can be nurtured by saying was trying to save as much haki as he could. He went to the roof by trying to take out as less people as possible too. That's why he took shortcuts with no enemies when possible as well.
The narrative reason is Oda was waiting for Luffy to face off against the Conqueror users on the roof lol

[errant oxide]

It makes sense for the Second/third in command to have it

[olive quail]

It really comes down to if you have what it takes to be someone who can lead others

To compel others to follow

[errant oxide]

It makes sense for Marco and Ace to have it imo

[olive quail]

Marco doesnt

[errant oxide]

I’m saying it would make sense if he had it

[olive quail]

Ace does tho

[amber oar]

The way Zoro has been depicted doesn't really indicate Conqueror attributes. He's a lone wolf for the most part, and people are fearful of his strength rather than dragged to follow him

He may take the lead in some situations among the SHs, but several other members have done it

[olive quail]

I disagree. Oden didnt want anyone to follow him but he still built up and chose to lead a group of retainers. I can imagine a situation without luffy where zoro gains a following

[amber oar]

That doesn't contradict anything I've said lol. He still dragged them naturally

[olive quail]

What do you mean dragged?

[amber oar]

People wanting to follow him

[zinc iris]

oden's story is about him grappling between being heir to the throne and being an adventurer

zoro's path is to become the greatest swordsman

[bold gull]

i guess this can make sense but i don't see luffy holding back his powers and letting everyone else fight at the first floor

[zinc iris]

he trusts his friends to succeed

[olive quail]

Isnt that the goal though. They made sure he saved his strength to fight kaido

[bold gull]

that's not what happened in fishman island when using conqueror's haki was the first thing he did after entering the battlefield

[olive quail]

The fight in fishman island was supposed to be a massive flex for the strawhats

[bold gull]

but I guess we can consider it character growth lol

[errant oxide]

There’s people who do follow Zoro despite his lone wolf or “scary” attributes

[olive quail]

I think the definitive moment when Oda will show us that Luffy is equal to the Emperors is going to be the sky split. Everytime emperors or characters of that caliber clash that's the result. So I think we can expect a moment in Luffy's fight against Kaido to result in this.

[pure raven]

I think there's a difference between making friends on the basis of your strength and having people who want to follow your lead.

Was it ever confirmed if ace had conq?

In the vivre cards

[olive quail]

Flashback

[pure raven]

It doesn’t really make sense because he submitted to white beard eventually

[olive quail]

He didnt submit from fear, he did because he saw the kind of man whitebeard was

[pure raven]

Feels like an inconsistency to me

Conq haki is basically exerting your will and presence onto other people

[bold gull]

well whitebeard had conqueror's haki too