manga-theories

[copper frost]

in canon 8, because of the timeleap

[night kite]

i thought 8

[ancient vault]

nvm he was actually 2 years old lol. He was born 28 and oden met roger 26 years ago

[lone plaza]

oh 8

[austere sandal]

Oh I think I agree that wano will be a worse arc if oden is still alive (Although I'd want to wait to see how Oda handles it cause if anyone can handle this level of bullshit well it's Oda) I just also think that it wouldnt change the character's motivations

[lone plaza]

it wouldn’t change their motivations, but it would ruin the plot line

[ancient vault]

Anyways 2 is fine too

[night kite]

wouldn’t change the characters motivation but it would completely disregard everyone’s resolve around fulfilling odens dream

[hollow grotto]

^

Oden's death was the catalyst for so many different people's motivations and the resolve they have to fight Kaido

[copper frost]

oden being alive would've accelerated the effort for wano's opening and luffy's journey would've gone on the usual route of just more exploring

[lone plaza]

Luffy is fighting BECAUSE of what happened to oden

there’s no way if oden is still alive that he won’t rush to go defeat kaido aswell

[night kite]

oden being alive would legitimately destroy any room for Momo to develop and grow to carry on the kozuki clan

[hollow grotto]

I think the concept of Oden being alive would be cool individually, but in the scope of this narrative, how he was introduced and what it would mean if he was alive, it'd ruin Wano personally for me

[lone plaza]

so what would be luffy’s place in the war cause oden is obv stronger than luffy

[lone plaza]

exactly how i feel

[austere sandal]

Unless he was pushed into the future right after his "death"

[solar steppe]

Kaido will die

[night jewel]

it also basically ruins momo and yamato's character arcs

[night kite]

faxfax

[hollow grotto]

^

[copper frost]

it would ruin the scabbard's arcs too

[lone plaza]

the tragedy at the end of act 3👀

i completely forgot Hawkins say someone about to die

[marsh elbow]

[lone plaza]

it can’t even be Oden he was talking about anyway cause we’re in the evening rn

[hollow grotto]

I mean, throughout the story, Hawkins has been investigating Luffy's percentage of being alive, but it was something like 19% when he first checked, right?

[copper frost]

momo and the scabbards are the most important players this arc, their arcs would all be destroyed so bad and added to that we have yamato in the mix whose arc depended on oden being dead too

[night kite]

would it be kaido though, Hawkins had so many chances to betray kaido and if he had a 1% chance of living wouldn’t Hawkins switch sides ?

[lone plaza]

he said “tomorrow morning” we’re in the evening

[hollow grotto]

Hawkins has been rather absent honestly. I wonder what he's doing

[night jewel]

while i would like to believe thats about kaido, its odd how hawkins has yet to make his move despite that..

[lone plaza]

unless those aren’t the accurate translations

[night jewel]

yea hai

[lone plaza]

kaido isn’t dying, luffy doesn’t kill his opponents

if you mean zoro kid killer or law would kill him then idk

[solar steppe]

well zoro would

[hollow grotto]

Hawkins plays entirely by the cards, and given that he hasn't made any moves is interesting to me since someone is at a 1% chance to live.

[night jewel]

tbf, that was about his chances at the end of the month, and these are his chances at the end of this day, so it makes sense why they are different

[lone plaza]

zoro WANTS to kill him that’s the thing🤣

[hollow grotto]

That's true. Maybe it's encapsulating Luffy's chances of living throughout this battle specifically?

[night jewel]

yup

[lone plaza]

also did anyone notice that king and magellan are the same race, but no one knows what it is

[night jewel]

magellan is a human lol, he just wears wings and horns

[hollow grotto]

'That man' sounds like it could relate to Luffy but.. it's kind of obvious that it would be him? Who else has Hawkins used the cards on, other than Kaido when he was forced to surrender?

[lone plaza]

oh🤣🤣🤣

[solar steppe]

1 month , guess it will be at the marijoa

[tidal tangle]

They both just have weird kinks

[night jewel]

two weeks have already passed

[lone plaza]

what about king? i swear his wings are real

[night jewel]

yeah his wings are real

[hollow grotto]

He was described of as a rare race

[lone plaza]

isn’t that why big mom wants him?

[hollow grotto]

Yep! She loves rare creatures

[night jewel]

no wings

( this is magellan as a kid)

[lone plaza]

is that canon

[tidal tangle]

Ye

[austere sandal]

its under his shirt

[night jewel]

and the horns are removable too, one sec, lemme find the panel

[hollow grotto]

He had the fruit when he was a kid? That's kind of sad but also interesting

[lone plaza]

oh then my bad

i wanna know what king’s race is tho, it looks the coolest

[lone plaza]

ohhhh

[pure raven]

Isn't King like the last of his species or something ?

[dark palm]

yep, something like that

[lone plaza]

last???????

[dark palm]

that's what big mom implied

[lone plaza]

damn that’s so sad, i wanna know what his backstory is

[pure raven]

Yeah like Big mom said tht she wanted his species in her kingdom

[night jewel]

removable horns

[dark palm]

she's missing three races

[lone plaza]

ohh

[pure raven]

Yeah

[dark palm]

one is king's, one is giants, one is something we don't know

[lone plaza]

mink?

[night jewel]

but yea, magellan is a regular human being, who wears wings and horns

[pure raven]

Wait she doesn't have giants ??? Wtf

[dark palm]

yeah she doesn't have giants, they abhor her

[hollow grotto]

Is.. Onimaru in any way related to a tanuki?

[lone plaza]

idky i always thought they were real

[dark palm]

just google kitsunes dude

[pure raven]

Mink is there probably

[dark palm]

same myth but more stuff

he's a kitsune

[gilded willow]

the wings are real i think

[hollow grotto]

dumb question, I know

[hollow grotto]

alright awesome, I was wondering if Oda was going for a double-meaning to his titles since he's known to do that

[dark palm]

tanukis are a completely different animal

[night jewel]

kyuubi no kitsune > kitsune

[dark palm]

the "double meaning" thing is overblown

[lone plaza]

what’s the double meaning thing about

[pure raven]

King's species is not revealed yet right ?

[night jewel]

tanuki are known as shapeshifters so the double meaning might just be about this oden being a shapeshifter lol

[lone plaza]

i’ve never heard of it before

[gilded willow]

no they didnt metion

[hollow grotto]

yeah, could be that too lol

[lone plaza]

yeah it isn’t

[hollow grotto]

It might not be one at all, I just wanted to see if there was anything to grab at straws with lol

[dark palm]

just give the fox a mythical tanuki fruit

there we go

[hollow grotto]

[night jewel]

kyuubi no kitsune tho

[hollow grotto]

wait, isn't the teapot from Tama's room a tanuki?

[dark palm]

just a normal tanuki, yes

[lone plaza]

yh it is

[dark palm]

not a shape-shifting tanuki

tanukis exist IRL

[hollow grotto]

normal, alright ty for that clarification lol

[dark palm]

it's just morj being a hack

[hollow grotto]

ahh yeah, I'm not on board with that theory but he makes some good ones

[night jewel]

morj really makes his videos based on reddit comments

[keen portal]

BM had the whole prince loki fiasco, where she set up Lola's marriage with Loki, but Lola fled. Then BM tried to pass off Chiffon as Lola but the giants immediately caught on and felt immense disrespect at BM trying to cheat them. Thats why the giants hate her so much now, and she doesnt have a single one speaking to her @pure raven

[hollow grotto]

I'm more likely to believe a Morj theory than a Joyboy one atleast

[dark palm]

as far as I'm concerned, they're one in the same

[night jewel]

both bad OPtubers so yes

[hollow grotto]

I've been trying to find a good OP theorist channel for a while - any you guys know?

[gilded willow]

joy boy is loki's grand father

[dark palm]

randy troy is pretty cool, one of the few optubers that's actually a fan

[hollow grotto]

yeah, I liked his theories about Tama being a Kurozumi and the Law the Marine theory

[lone plaza]

i mainly just watch bda law and grand line review

[pure raven]

She can just force them or something...

[gilded willow]

bro the giants are no joke

[keen portal]

thats the point. she cant

[lone plaza]

you can’t mess with giants

[pure raven]

yeah...they that strong....?

[lone plaza]

they have the strongest empire i’m pretty sure

[solar steppe]

Fukurokuju planning something

[hollow grotto]

She named one of her attacks after the giants' attacks

[keen portal]

The giants are said to have the single strongest army of fighters

[lone plaza]

yep

[hollow grotto]

There's a reason Wano and Elbaf can protect themselves and why Marines aren't present there

[pure raven]

Oshit so if BM Pirates vs Giants
It's Giants who win

[copper frost]

BDA has been having some cool content lately ye

[hollow grotto]

We don't know enough about the giants to come to a solid conclusion, but they're not weak - that's all

[keen portal]

Not that really near, its just that BM would have so many casualties, that it wouldnt be worth attacking the giants

like imagine 60 of her 85 children dying

[gilded willow]

the strawhat have to climb yggdrasil

The strongest giants are at the top of that tree, they have no comparison with the giants that we have been seeing

[hollow grotto]

Every time I see this image I can't get over that faint line

[keen portal]

Look at Kaido and how he had to wait for YEARS trying to take over Wano bit by bit. He didnt even fight Oden for 5 years

[lone plaza]

what do you guys think the next arc is gonna be and which yonkos arc?

[night kite]

Elbaf

[gilded willow]

they have to go to elbaf, after or before raftel

[lone plaza]

because since wci and wano is bm and kaido half, shouldn’t elbaf and final war arc be shanks and blackbeard

[night kite]

Maybe shanks

[gilded willow]

black beard and luffy are going to fight together against IM

[lone plaza]

never

luffy hates bb

[hollow grotto]

I'm more inclined to believe it'll be a group vs group vs group fight

[gilded willow]

naa, luffy hates akainu

blackbeard was really cool

[lone plaza]

sameeeeee SH, Revs, Red Haired Pirates, Grant Fleet, Luffys alliance Vs BB pirates Vs. WG

[night kite]

I kinda think luffy n coby vs BB like when garp and roger teamed

[hollow grotto]

Blackbeard is meant to be an anarchist, an extremist of Luffy's freedom, while Akainu is meant to be an extremist of Luffy's justice and order. He's a balance to those two, so for him to befriend them would in some ways, to me at least, feel like he condones and accepts their actions.

[gilded willow]

na bro, to beat im, they have to fight with the 3 AW

[hollow grotto]

I worded that badly but you get the point.

[lone plaza]

i say coby aswell but everyone thinks coby too weak lol

ppl say fuji since smoker too weak aswel lool

[night kite]

I feel like progressively they’re bumping his power up tbh

[lone plaza]

Coby’s dream is to be admiral, while Luffys dream is to be pirate king, there has to be a correlation in terms of power

we actually haven’t seen how strong Coby is rn but we’ll see after he wins against Hancock🤣🤣🤣🤣

[gilded willow]

hancock is not loosing

[lone plaza]

idk if she is or not, but imo she should

[thick sky]

we will be getting 'Luffy Fan Club'

[gilded willow]

you think uranus is in elbaf?

[lone plaza]

nah

actually, i wouldn’t be surprised tbh

[solar steppe]

Enel accidentaly build pluton and found uranus on moon

[lone plaza]

plot twist, Luffy is uranus

[gilded willow]

ancient weapons from what was seen, are found in families of ancient royalty. Pluto in the Nerfetaris, as rulers of the surface. Poseidon in the ryugu family, as rulers of the depths and finally Uranus at the top of the giant tree, as rulers of the heavens

[lone plaza]

nice theory

we know that poseidon is weepyhoshi, and pluton was a massive ship, any theories on what uranus could be?

[hollow grotto]

^

[solar steppe]

Pluton was designed and constructed on Water 7

[hollow grotto]

The only thing people really seem to base it off is the cryptic drawings on the Moon that Enel found, but I'm pretty sure they aren't confirmed to be the Ancient Weapons.

I wonder why they're named after planets though, curious

[lone plaza]

poseidon isn’t

[thick sky]

rather named after greek gods. Pluton is hades, poseidon and uranus are pretty common so

[hollow grotto]

ahh yeah, now I feel dumb

[lone plaza]

basically pluton is the god of the underworld, poseidon is the god of the seas, and uranus is the god of the skies

[marsh elbow]

@night kite

[thick sky]

yea

[lone plaza]

pluton = hades btw

[warped wagon]

Correct

[copper frost]

Pluto - Roman Hades basically

Jupiter - Roman Zeus, Neptune - Roman Poseidon

And Uranus is Ouranous, the father of the Titans and Sky himself

[gilded willow]

thats why it should be in elbaf

[hollow grotto]

Uranus could control the weather? Two of the three weapons both are in some way related to the ocean, and controlling the weather, especially in favor of the ocean, can completely alter the fate of a battle at sea.

[lone plaza]

it’s most likely in elbaf since elbaf has mountains and remember how zeus lives on top of mount olympus

[hollow grotto]

complete headcanon, no proof there

[gilded willow]

Yes, I would also think that uranus could control the weather, but big mom, nami and dragon are ready for that.

[lone plaza]

so is blackbeard lol

he’s always 10 steps ahead of everyone else

[gilded willow]

blackbeard can control the weather?

[lone plaza]

no

[thick sky]

the scale being large is just enough. There are many battleships, but there's still Pluton - a battleship with much destruction capability

[lone plaza]

but he’s gonna be able to avoid it either way since he has gura

[pure raven]

This theory is essentially the converse of Urouge joining BB and I thought you'd enjoy it
@dusky acorn https://thrillerbark.com/threads/a-man-of-god-the-urouge-and-enel-connection.1770/

[lone plaza]

franky destroyed the blueprints anyway so pluton ain’t bothering the story anymore

[gilded willow]

but pluto is in arabasta bro

the blueprints, is to stop pluton in the case that fell in the wrong hands

[lone plaza]

ohhhhh

[thick sky]

I don't think anyone should worry about that tho. Pluton being 800 years old reminded me of an episode of Ben 10. That one about an Ultimate weapon

[gilded willow]

bro is AW for something, if noa can survive why not pluton

franky is the son of vegapunk

[thick sky]

noah wasn't in good condition tho

[gilded willow]

noah was in perfect condition before luffy, and is a ship that was under water (10000m)

[covert hazel]

Pluton isn't necessarily in Aeabasta

[thick sky]

i seem to have forgotten it

[tidal tangle]

not in perfect condition

[normal talon]

oh damn theories get pinned now

[lone plaza]

i just hope that my predictions for the final war arc are correct

[dark palm]

yeah make a cool one zoroyama

we need more

[normal talon]

aah , cool one huh

[static mortar]

wonder if uranus is the ship eneru made

[shadow jewel]

I can turn my video theory into text format

[sharp cape]

you guys think it’s devon in wano?

[timid fiber]

N o

[craggy pumice]

she wouldnt know Odens relationship to the scabbards

[static mortar]

best theory so far is luffy gear 5 is so fast he can punch through reality and take people back to the present time

[craggy pumice]

or Odens chin beard

[timid fiber]

they drugged

[radiant quarry]

I mean

Who’s to say caterina didn’t meet whitebeards crew

[craggy pumice]

thats why I specified Odens chin beard

he didnt have it there

[late night]

[shadow jewel]

I believe Denjiro committed seppuku inside of the temple in which he was shown screaming inside of. The building itself resembles an actual ancient seppuku temple. After he performed this suicide ritual, I also believe he was possessed by a spirit of rage and revenge. Sounds crazy, but it’s justified later on.

“If the person dies in a sudden or violent manner such as murder or suicide, of if they are influenced by powerful emotions such as a desire for revenge, love, jealousy, hatred or sorrow, the reikon will transform into a yurei. Their yurei will come back and complete the action last thought of before dying. The yurei will not be laid to rest unless the emotional conflict is resolved. The lower the social rank of the person before death, the more powerful yurei they will become.”
-Reikon directly translates to soul. And we are well aware how Oda loves using the concept of a soul in One Piece. Big Moms fruit and Brook are two prime examples. But even later on we might find out that DFs are connected to the soul.
-Yurei is the transformation that someone’s soul goes through when the above conditions are met.

The next part of this theory will be explaining the similarities between the yurei concept and Kyoshiryo. The reason Kyoshiryo’s soul turned into a yurei could be due to him witnessing Oden’s death and being powerless. Before the physical transformation into Kyoshiryo, Denjiro was an orphan and he would love to gamble with merchants to get a better price. He clearly wasn’t that high in the social ranking structure of Wano, until he became a retainer. And finally, the last action he thought of was avenging Oden.

The final part of this theory will explain the physical similarities in their appearance. A yurei is usually depicted with colors such as green, blue, and purple. Kyoshiryo’s entire color scheme are these colors. A matter of fact, they are only these colors. Yurei are also said to have their wrists dangle lifelessly with their elbows by their sides. “These features are usually depicted in the Edo Period.” It so happens that Wano is most similarly based on the Edo period.

The rough translation of Kyoshiryo’s name translates to “Lying Dead Spirit.” Shiryo itself means dead spirit, and Kyo could mean a variety of things. The most relevant and coincidently the most popular meanings are “Capital City, Lying, and Cooperation.”

This next part is just hypothetical because I think it sounds cool. But Kyoshiryo could still have a fight with Zoro. He could lose control of his emotions and lose himself due to his yurei, which would cause a fight between Zoro who also is past due to show his Ashura powers. Fight between two “demons”

Sorry for the text wall

[lone plaza]

nice theory

[static mortar]

i wouldnt' be against oden being a spirit but denjiro is an established character by now

i don't think he's it

[lone plaza]

think Denjiro is the Oden we saw?

[pure raven]

Small thing - his name is Kyoushirou not Kyoshiryo

[lone plaza]

yeah

[pure raven]

but I love this theory

[lone plaza]

same

[tired osprey]

The name Kyoshiro comes from this jidaigeki

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemuri_Kyōshirō_(TV_series)

[bold sierra]

Wow!

[pure raven]

Its oden aint it? prob he somehow survived or he is from past again

he might have some how survived

[bold sierra]

is oden still alive?

[pure raven]

mostly

[brisk aurora]

no

[copper frost]

it's not oden

[ancient vault]

-Reikon directly translates to soul. And we are well aware how Oda loves using the concept of a soul in One Piece. Big Moms fruit and Brook are two prime examples. But even later on we might find out that DFs are connected to the soul.

But both of these examples are directly tied to their devil fruit abilities and in your theory you didnt say that Denjiro has a devil fruit. I dont think something as supernatural as that actually happens in one piece. Everything supernatural in wano was explained with magical powers that were actually really just devil fruit powers. @shadow jewel

[brisk aurora]

i saw a theory that it could be devon bc she has the mythical zoan ninetails fruit and that fruit can clone people another reason is that the way that devon stands was the same was oden was standing

[copper frost]

that name is sending off red flags, swrml lmao

[ancient vault]

The theory is serious. Its a good idea but I think you are taking it a bit to literally. Instead of literally letting Denjiro die and then his spirit transforms or sth I think Oda most likely chose this way of Denjiro leaving behind his old appearance and metaphorically dying

While rage turned him into another human

I love that my screenshot is getting reposted

[brisk aurora]

also her df

[ancient vault]

Oden made this pose in the past. Go read chapter 964

[obtuse void]

hmm people say shanks might secretly be a villian but what if Shanks IS ODA , think about it shank is so happy and sacrificing his own arm for a random kid to give inspiration is SUS , what if the whole time he had the writer-writer fruit and one piece is just a fictional story created by shanks

also oda said shank is the character thats like him the most

[quartz rivet]

That would be insane

[obtuse void]

?

[ancient vault]

Youre not supposed to write troll theories here

[bold sierra]

Who else has theories? I want to read 🥺

[green roost]

i just found something

[pure raven]

What did you find?

🥺

[green roost]

This is not onimaru’s sword, the hilts have a different design

Lightning mark on oden’s ⚡️

@dark palm

i know, not saying this is the real oden, but its counter evidence to onimaru perhaps

onimaru hilt also looks shorter, as metz pointed out as well, oden sword hilt is a bit longer

admittedly tho, onimaru collected lots of weapons, so it could be another nameless sword of his, its just not the one people point out to be the same, thats all

[pure raven]

we all know that

even in anime we can see it clearly

[plush pike]

People are still primarily on the Onimaru train, huh?

[green roost]

seemingly, i see the majority opinions split between kanjuro and onimaru

it still might be neither, this is too well crafted of a twist

[plush pike]

Kanjuro doesn't explain the one who bandaged them or why they disappeared, and we have zero reason to believe Onimaru can shapeshift into anything but Gyukimaru.

[hollow grotto]

I'm half-expecting it to be a new character or someone with a mythical Tanuki fruit we weren't aware of

[plush pike]

Mythical tanuki fruit...? You mean like Hitetsu's teapot?

[hollow grotto]

just because Oda can screw with us that way, making us think about all the previous iterations of Oden and the shapeshifters

[green roost]

the teapot tanuki in act 1 should be just a regular zoan

i dont think it was mythical, it wasnt presented as such lol

[plush pike]

Why would a tanuki be mythical?

It's literally a raccoon dog.

[green roost]

some japanese folk lore of tanukis transforming, but we already were presented with 2 foxes that transform in 1 arc lol

[pure raven]

2 foxes ?

[green roost]

onimaru and catarina devon, she was in the intermission but thats still technically wano arc lol

[pure raven]

oh

[hollow grotto]

I'm playing devil's advocate and assuming for hypothetical sake that it's neither, even if I'm a believer of it being Onimaru or Kanjuro.

[green roost]

onimaru is a single tailed fox that so far can only transform into 1 form, but does it in a puff of smoke (this puff of smoke is what leads people to believe he can transform into whatever)

[plush pike]

But why would a random tanuki present themselves as Oden? It makes zero narrative sense.

[green roost]

i agree fuck that theory lol

[pure raven]

don;t miss white colour

[green roost]

yeah hes also a white fox with red eyebrows

[hollow grotto]

harsh

[plush pike]

It's way too big a plot point for Oden to suddenly appear, only for us to be let down by a shallow cop out. It's like if Robin said she wanted to live, and when Franky caught up with her, she just said "lol just kidding" and ran into the gates of justice.

[pure raven]

white foxes in myths r shape sifters

[green roost]

foxes in myth can transform into original creations AND copies of existing people

[hollow grotto]

Onimaru is the most logical to be the case yes, I'm just providing a different perspective because, although irregularly, that can often lead to the discovery of something completely unexpected.

[green roost]

i agree we shouldnt close any avenues unless its the "oden is actually alive" avenue lol

[plush pike]

Has anyone thought that maybe it's Oden, but Toki and Oden used an ability that temporarily sent them into the future, so they could help the samurai in the future and the present?

[hollow grotto]

That was my original thought, yeah

[green roost]

that would mean hed eventually have to go back and there is no backward time travel

[plush pike]

Snap back to present, not travel backwards from the reference point of the ability.

[pure raven]

nah

[green roost]

that would mean its 20 years ago and wed continue following onep iece as of 20 years ago?

[plush pike]

Good point, I don't know what I was thinking. "Nah" indeed.

[hollow grotto]

I doubt it's Oden though. It's just so painful that the chat is going to be this way for at the minimum, 2 weeks.

[green roost]

lmao im just glad people are giving multiple theories a chance instead of right away thinking its actually oden , 2 weeks is bearable cause of that

[plush pike]

What? No. They went into the future temporarily, helped them in some way, and then get snapped back to the present where Oden faces the boiling pot and Toki the fire.

[pure raven]

P A I N

[marble marlin]

can someone explain why people think its enel cuz hes so irrelevant here

[plush pike]

Oh indeed, I want to hear more theories, I just don't find anything else compelling.

[green roost]

they cannot be snapped back, toki said no backwards time travel is possible whatsoever, it would create paradoxes

[hollow grotto]

I think for the most part, it was a meme lol

[green roost]

oda is simply avoiding backwards travel to make his story less confusing

[pure raven]

agreed

[pure raven]

One Piece had a moon as cover recently so Enel...

[plush pike]

There's no backwards time travel from the reference point of the ability.

[marble marlin]

oh i did not look at the cover

[green roost]

i dont quite follow what ur saying, its just not possible no matter what, the way you word it, oden cannot go forward and then snap back

[pure raven]

Same

[marble marlin]

still does not make sense

we'll see ig

[plush pike]

If it's temporary it makes sense. That also explains how Toki could say her prophecy so accurately.

[pure raven]

or maybe she can see future

[plush pike]

As far as we can tell, she doesn't have future sight like Shyarly.

[green roost]

temporary cant make sense thats what im saying, snapping back, from being temporary, is still going back in time

[plush pike]

Not from the reference point of the ability.

[green roost]

canu explain that better cause i dont get that part

[marble marlin]

i dont know man i mean if it were enel he wouldn't help them

[plush pike]

You use the ability, travel 20 years into the future, but your ability is only being used in the past. Then you snap back to the present.

So it's used to temporarily send you into the future rather than permanently.

[green roost]

that would still mean you went back in time, so you changed the future, that means when you go back to your original time, something has changed, all the events could be different, which could even cause luffy to not exist

[plush pike]

What..? No... that's not how future time travel works, that's how past time travel works.

[pure raven]

ok lets assume toki's ablity works as time machine then

[plush pike]

Why? That's not my theory.

[green roost]

but you keep saying snap back, its just hard for me to grasp how you mean it when "snap back" to me is being read as "gone back in time", yes you started out in the past, but that could still create paradoxes i think

[plush pike]

In that case, future sight should in and of itself cause paradoxes.

[green roost]

even if it doesnt create paradoxes, the "snap back" function goes against what toki said about backward travel being impossible

[pure raven]

future foresight makes most sense

[green roost]

at BEST if its a real oden, its an ethereal image that cant be touched or interacted with....

[plush pike]

Madame Shyarly saying her prophecy could alter the future too.

[green roost]

would people be happy with an image of oden that cant be touched or felt or interacted with? hmmm

[plush pike]

Nope

It would be a cheap copout IMO, and Onimaru/Hiyori theory would also be that. Kanjuro one would make sort of sense, but again, doesn't explain who bandaged them or why they disappeared afterwards.

[pure raven]

there can be 2 people

[green roost]

i think the person who bandaged them is a totally different character than the fake oden btw, and i think the bandage person was straight up hiyori, its so easy to tell, shes alive too and said she didnt want to be seen yet until after the war

the shadow lines up perfectly with motivation and reason to bethere with hiyori, plus shes fuckin alive lol

as for the fake oden, im still not sure of the shadow works together with that fake oden, or it was a coincidence that he came right after

[hollow grotto]

You can see a shadow behind the shocked Scabbards to the right of the image. I'm sure that's the silhouetted figure.

[green roost]

the hair strands tell me its hiyori, because shes alive and toki isnt, thats the natural assumption my brain is telling me to make

[plush pike]

Why would Kawamatsu say this about Hiyori?

[ancient vault]

He thought it was Toki most likely

[hollow grotto]

That's one of the reasons why I thought it could be referring to Toki or Onimaru.

[green roost]

this is the second part of it: hiyori looks EXACTLY like toki, and it was so dark that bao huang could not even see who the figure was

[plush pike]

That's not something you say about someone you know is on the island next to where you are.

[pure raven]

nah

[green roost]

i just explained it

[ancient vault]

He doesnt know of Hiyoris healing abilities

[hollow grotto]

Kawamatsu stating that made it more illusive because he knows two characters that potentially could be the one Kawa was referring to, being Toki and Onimaru.

[ancient vault]

He possibly knows of Tokis tho since he spend years together with her taking care of the wano citizens

[green roost]

he was gravely injured, and it was so dark that bao huangs special eyes couldnt even see well, OF COURSE he could make the mistake that its toki when hiyori looks exactly like her

[ancient vault]

They look like an exact copy lol

[green roost]

ill take it a step further: when hiyori comes out she will continue to pretend to be toki

[plush pike]

Ehh I mean, that's not the first conclusion you jump to when you know how Hiyori looks, is it?

[green roost]

she will continue to pretend to be toki until we see her leg and see that she doesnt have a leg scar like toki did

[green roost]

if youre on the verge of death, it can be, especially if you think you might be dead already lol

[plush pike]

Sees my brother that looks like my dead father in the dark Oh no, it can't possible be...my father?

[ancient vault]

We just told u. Hiyori looks exactly like Toki. Coupled with the fact that she was healing them and Kawa doesnt know she has those skills its easy to assume that she was there but thats why the disbelief of Kawa. He thought Toki was dead

[green roost]

thats why hes questioning it, its impossible to him

[plush pike]

I mean, I see it as too much of a stretch for that to be his first instinct if it was Hiyori.

[ancient vault]

The official will most likely make this clearer I think TCB quality this chapter was not that good

[plush pike]

Hopefully.

[still pewter]

its obviously toki, she used her df to speed up time on their wounds

[green roost]

...

[plush pike]

Send their wounds into the future you mean?

[still pewter]

she has the time time fruit

[green roost]

thats so dumb lol

[ancient vault]

If she could do that she wouldnt have complimented Oden on his regeneration

[plush pike]

Now now, lets be civil Earl. It's a new theory that's all.

[ancient vault]

Read 964

[green roost]

sorry lol, i said that about the teapot thing too

[still pewter]

since you guya re all assuming that onimaru can transform into anything he pleases, i will assume that toki can manipulate time

[plush pike]

Fair enough lol.

[pure raven]

what the

[green roost]

im not even letting myself fully believe its onimaru yet, i accept theres flaws with it , even if she can manipulate wounds thats great, but toki died regardless

[pure raven]

toki is not Dr. Strange

[green roost]

@still pewter https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/660982328092524576/820666892121145344/tokilastwords.png

[still pewter]

im not saying that toki and oden are ACTUALLY alive

[plush pike]

The only way Toki is here is if my temporary time travel theory is true IMO. Otherwise it's Hiyori.

Because she and Oden are confirmed dead.

[pure raven]

"temporary time travel" as if

[green roost]

it would go against the established logic of her fruit, which she explained, to snap back in any way, even if it doesnt cause paradoxes

[plush pike]

I've seen weirder things.

[thick sky]

he's trying to say like a virtual projection/ like sending your message after a certain time interval

[pure raven]

toki works like time machine

[green roost]

like princess leia in star wars? thatd be the only way i guess

[plush pike]

No I mean physically go to the future, but like, temporarily.

[pure raven]

So many other series spoilers I swear to god

[plush pike]

Here?

[pure raven]

man u r making things more complicated

[green roost]

lmao sorry if i spoiled star wars episode 4 for you

[thick sky]

just when I was trying to give another example as spoiler

[hollow grotto]

I'm just trying to figure out, assuming Toki died, where the fruit would end up, and if the Beast Pirates would have it or not

[plush pike]

Well any theory I've heard makes things more complicated, or it makes it less compelling/feel like a copout. So idk what to believe.

[still pewter]

shanks crew

[thick sky]

shouldn't df be able to respawn anywhere in the world

[green roost]

what if hiyori got it and was pretending to be toki? i would scream lmfao

[still pewter]

someone in shanks crew has tokis fruit, would explain why people think someone has a time fruit in their crew

[thick sky]

other wise bon clay couldn't get that old hag's fruit

[hollow grotto]

Toki was pretending to be Hiyori. no flaws with that idea at all

[green roost]

no the other way around! lol

[hollow grotto]

lol

[plush pike]

Anyway, nice talking, gotta go

[pure raven]

see deaths of oden and toki was 2 give akazaya 9 a buff

[green roost]

have a good one

[hollow grotto]

see ya Fresh

[thick sky]

cya Fresh

[pure raven]

huff............

[still pewter]

im struggling to understand what tier oden was on, was he above first mate and slightly below yonkou, because white beard considered oden a brother instead of a son

and in that case was oden > rayleigh ?

[thick sky]

no offense. lol. i mean this as a joke

[pure raven]

hehehehehh

[copper frost]

Powerscaling is irrelevant in this case, Oden was a beast tho

[craggy pumice]

read my name

[frosty nimbus]

Oden was indeed a beast

[thick sky]

officials are out guys

[frosty nimbus]

Kaido being the strongest creature still has ptsd from him

[craggy pumice]

oh shit thanks

[green roost]

not out for me yet, in half an hour

[pure raven]

is it due 2 his df

[still pewter]

where do i see the official?

[green roost]

viz website has thelatest chapters free

[thick sky]

use a vpn, why would you wait

[green roost]

oh, i dont use one lol

[thick sky]

let's read from official source to support them guys

the officials, at least

[green roost]

is that the offical scans?

oh its up on viz now brb

okay so in viz translation oden says "youre so much older now" as i thought, along with the fan scanlation this is still off, 3 of them arent so much older at all, they jumped through time, kinemon is even in the front and he still says this

[ancient vault]

mods abandoned this place long ago bro

[green roost]

yep sus as fuck "youre so much older now" as hes staring at kinemon who hasnt aged a year since odens execution

[thick sky]

wasn't someone mentioning a shadow behind the akazaya or something (referring to the siilhouette person)

[solar steppe]

[hollow grotto]

The one on the right looks like the silhouette potentially.

Though, they're awake and looking around, so wouldn't they see them?

[still pewter]

denjiro?

[pure raven]

This is Kuri

[lone plaza]

i don’t believe the onimaru theory anymore

mainly because why would he pretend to be someone important to them that died a long time ago to get a point across, it wouldn’t be a respectful thing to do

[lunar whale]

Not only that we don't even know if he could even transform into Oden. There is already a shape shifting devil fruit that belongs to Bon Clay. We only know Onimaru' mainform is either a fox or human. So he is probably a zoan user. So since when could zoan users shape shift into anything they want?

[lone plaza]

i thought onimaru was a kitsune

kitsune’s are known for shapeshifting into anyone to play tricks on people

[lunar whale]

Ah

I thought he was a fox

[lone plaza]

but still we don’t know what race he is, so he could’ve been a fox that ate a df or vice versa

no one rlly knows tbh

[lunar whale]

Yeah

To me the only theory I find that could be possible is the Kanjuro's drawing theory. But even that sounds a little farfetched

[thick sky]

bro Kitsunes are foxes and there's a popular folklore about kitsune and shapeshifting

[lone plaza]

idek about kanjuro cause i’m pretty sure he should be dead

[lone plaza]

nahhhh he can’t be kitsune because the race hasn’t been introduced yet

[craggy fjord]

I'd always hoped Gekko Moriah would show up during Wano arc to fight Kaido again. What if Oden is Oden, but only his cleaned up body and controled by a shadow provided by Moriah.

[lone plaza]

it’s like how we thought kawamatsu was just a kappa but he’s actually fishman

[lunar whale]

Wait did he die?

When did Kanjuro supposedly die?

[thick sky]

entrance of onigashima

[lone plaza]

he was fighting Kiku right?

[last halo]

He didn't

[thick sky]

kinemon puts an amigasa atop his head

[last halo]

He was defeated.

[lone plaza]

who was kiku fighting?

[lunar whale]

I can't remember

[thick sky]

they are going ot fight an outnumbered battle. do you think that they will just leave kanjuro alive

[pure raven]

good point

[last halo]

Kiku fought and defeated Kanjuro

[lone plaza]

yeah we saw kiku’s sword dripping in blood

[last halo]

Yes

[lone plaza]

kanjuro is dead

[lunar whale]

Did we see a body?

[pure raven]

yup

[thick sky]

@lunar whale

[lunar whale]

Ok fair enough

[lone plaza]

even if he was just defeated, there’s no way that he would have the strength to go to draw oden where the scabbards are rn

[lunar whale]

Yeah

[lone plaza]

so that’s the onimaru and kanjuro theory gone

[last halo]

No

[lone plaza]

and the inu inu no mi one can’t be the one either since she has no connection to Oden

[last halo]

None of those two theories are gone

[thick sky]

see their expression kunta

[lunar whale]

I mean if Kanjuro is dead pfft

[last halo]

The scabbards have just been completely wrecked by Kaido and are now walking around

[lunar whale]

If that's theory isn't gone then idk what is gone anymore lmao

[lone plaza]

the kanjuro theory doesn’t even make sense when you look at the plot

[lunar whale]

Yeah

[pure raven]

it does cause orochi is dead

[lone plaza]

and onimaru wouldn’t pretend to be someone who was important to the scabbards and died a long time ago, it would just be disrespectful to them

[lunar whale]

It would actually be disrespectful

[lone plaza]

we didn’t see orochis body

[lunar whale]

We saw Orochi's head

[pure raven]

what the kaido cut his head

[lone plaza]

his df has a few mysteries that we don’t even know yet

[lunar whale]

That doesn't necessarily mean he is dead. His DF allows him to have multiple lifes

[lone plaza]

for some reason i don’t believe that he’s dead, idky

[green roost]

orochi has the yamata no orochi mythical df

[pure raven]

yup we did saw his body but not a single drop of blood was there

[green roost]

it doesnt die unless all heads are cut, the heads wont regrow but he can stay alive until all are cut

[lone plaza]

it has a connection to a hydra, but they’re not the same

[green roost]

yamata no orochi stays alive until all heads come to zero, hydra regrows heads

[weak arrow]

Orochi in my eyes has a 100% of being alive while Kanjuro is more 50/50. If Oden was a Kanjuro painting, I would not be surprised.

[green roost]

i agree with that adam

[lone plaza]

idk if it works the same for a df user, he was in human form, so does human form count as all his heads chopped off at the same time already?

[green roost]

here is an example, hes human here with human head, but sprouts extra snake heads

[lunar whale]

If you he makes no appearances even after Wano then I'm happy to accept his death. But his DF is enough to say he's alive and well

[lone plaza]

i would, because kanjuro shouldn’t have the strength to go to where the scabbards are

[thick sky]

susanoo made yamata no orochi drunk and then cut off his head (in the myths). maybe the element of surprise does something, either you should be in your zoan form or you should be in your right sense

[weak arrow]

You could argue the scabbards and Jack doesn't have the strength to do what they're doing either. Stamina is subjective

[lone plaza]

no wonder, i 100% don’t believe he’s dead now

[pure raven]

susanoo made

[thick sky]

yea sorry

[green roost]

right? this is a good panel 🙂

[weak arrow]

And the fact that it's such an oda move to only show fake deaths in that type of manner

[green roost]

oda sneaky as fuck

[lone plaza]

i highly doubt Oda will show two fake deaths in a row tbh

[weak arrow]

People thinking orochi dead probably thought doflamingo died here

[pure raven]

2 ?

[lone plaza]

kanjuro and orochi

[lunar whale]

Orochi

[green roost]

it would both be coming from kurozumi family, would be fitting if anything i guess, kanjuro also a kurozumi

[pure raven]

orochi is alive

[lone plaza]

no way was kyros winning the whole arc like chill🤣🤣

[pure raven]

zoro is the one who will cut him

[lone plaza]

not confirmed but we speculate that he’s alive

[green roost]

id be down for all the scabbards or hiyori to get hits on orochi as hes getting less and less heads

[lunar whale]

There's a higher chance of him being alive than dead

[lone plaza]

yeah

[green roost]

until hes down to 1 head and a pathetic sniveling coward and begging for his life, maybe then theyd spare him

[pure raven]

his head was cut and no blood was shed

[weak arrow]

About 66% of voters say orochi is alive

[lone plaza]

wait lemme see the panel again, does anyone have it?

[lone plaza]

blood

[green roost]

there was some blood shed but i still dont think thats a full on give away of his death, if orochi was stabbed thru the heart id have no question he was truly dead

[lunar whale]

He doesn't have just the one head lol

[lone plaza]

look on the tip of the sword

[weak arrow]

The guy with multiple heads gets beheaded, wow i wonder if that's a coincidence

[lone plaza]

i know he’s still alive but it’s not confirmed

[green roost]

the head can truly be cut, he will never get that head back, its fine if it bleeds, but he still could come back

because theres 7 more mythically, along with the pic i posted

[exotic echo]

I mostly feel like he'd be alive because otherwise there's no narrative path about the kurozumi left if he & kanjuro died

[lone plaza]

but even if he is alive, his place in wano has ended tbh, he’s just gonna end up being as annoying as usual sigh

[exotic echo]

and it feels unlike oda to leave that stuff alone, I guess

[green roost]

we need some closure from the good guys with him, there is also the unresolved theme of the cycle of revenge starting this whole mess in the first place

[lone plaza]

that’s true

[exotic echo]

i don't think it's entirely necessary to continue it mind you, because there is already a lesson apparent to the reader

but there is definitely room for more

[green roost]

yea agreed

[lone plaza]

he is most likely still alive

[green roost]

like if it was pretty much any other manga this death would be just fine

[lone plaza]

but what i’m tryna figure out is how Oden is actually there

[green roost]

but its somewhat unlike oda as fats says

[lone plaza]

and somehow when Oda comes, he’s gonna come up with some reason that makes so much sense but hardly anyone saw coming

[pure raven]

it will be damn if orochi got easy death

[lone plaza]

knowing Oda, we might not even find out about Oda next chapter

[thick sky]

Oden*

[lone plaza]

yh Oden*

[pure raven]

what next ch. will be

[thick sky]

franky vs sasaki IMO

[lone plaza]

next chapter will probs be brook and robin

[pure raven]

sanji v/s jack or brook v/s apoo

[lunar whale]

Jimbei as well

[thick sky]

how did you even reach this

[lone plaza]

ahhhhh yess it’s gonna be jimbei acc

[lunar whale]

We're yet to see Jimbei get any action

[pure raven]

?

[lone plaza]

i wanna know who Who’s Who is that he knows Jimbei

[thick sky]

nvm

[lunar whale]

Same

[tepid hinge]

imma spoiler this because as we all know the most recent chapter had A MASSIVE ENDING

||It cant be Oden, if you look at his swords, it look as a though he has Enma, which unless he took it from Zoro is impossible. I think it is Catarina Devon ORRRRR hear me out, the bastard traitor himself, Kanjuro, I KNOW I KNOW, its a weird thought but it maybe a painting of him or something else, i dont know. BUT i think it all comes back to the lady who helped them, i think its Toki and she convinced Kanjuro to help the Scabbards ||

how exactly all of that happens IDK but i do think it is a good thought ^^

[thick sky]

its good that you did all this effort but bro, these theories have been spawning for over days now

no need to spoiler-tag that

[acoustic helm]

Man look at sword ,Enma is different

[umbral gulch]

That is not enma and ame no habakiri

But i think it is really oden

[lone plaza]

it can be enma and ame no habakiri

[pure raven]

man

[acoustic helm]

Man oden being alive bamboozles whole story

[wild veldt]

It literally can't be actual oden

[lone plaza]

if Toki is involved in why Oden is alive

[acoustic helm]

No , look at shape of handle

[lone plaza]

but i don’t think it’s the real Oden imo

[pure raven]

Im pretty sure Oden doesn’t have Enma

[lone plaza]

if Toki took him to the future then it would still be the same swords

[pure raven]

Club shaped guard on enma vs 2 circular guards

[lone plaza]

the swords are completely different swords tho

[umbral gulch]

He give the sword to toki before execution

[lone plaza]

either way it can’t be oden, Oda knows himself it would ruin the story

[ripe geyser]

Oden is going take back enma and kick Zoro of the rooftop 🤣

[pure raven]

Regarding the blades, they’re obviously not the same as Enma and Ame no Habakiri

[lone plaza]

even if it was Oden, he would rush to kill Kaido asap🤣🤣

[pure raven]

Let’s play guess the difference lmao

[lone plaza]

not even the same clothes smh

[pure raven]

Clearly an imposter

[lone plaza]

guess Oda tryna make us play a game of imposter

[cyan berry]

oden wears a longer kimino near the end of his flashback, please read things in their entirety before making assumptions

[lone plaza]

it can’t be Kanjuro, he wouldn’t get the swords wrong like that

[pure raven]

If it is Caterina Devon, we can probably expect some admirals to show up too

[lunar whale]

It's definitely not Devon. That's as bizarre as the Enel theory lol

What would even be her purpose?

[pure raven]

How is Enel associated with this at all lol

[lone plaza]

i doubt blackbeard is involved, his place is with shanks

[lunar whale]

It's not. I'm saying it's as bizarre as his theory

[pure raven]

The Blackbeard Pirates also have no known affiliation with Wano, so idk how she could transform into someone she’s never seen

[lone plaza]

unless Oda uses this to create the transition to blackbeard and shanks’ half of “The Four Yonko Saga”

[lunar whale]

How would Devon even get to Onighasima?

[pure raven]

Magic

[ripe geyser]

It's the real Oden. He's going to solo Kaido and Big Mom

[lunar whale]

Saying that how can Devon shapeshift?

That's Bon Clay's ability....

[lone plaza]

inu inu no mi model: kitsune

[tepid hinge]

she would have met him, she was in lvl6 so i think she would have met him at some point. She works for black beard, he wants kaido out of the way for 2 reasons, 1 sea prism and 2 the rio poneglyph

[pure raven]

Kitsune model lets her create look alikes of people

[umbral gulch]

We dont know the full extent of time time fruit, maybe its awakening? The time of the user in exchange for the time of some one?

[lunar whale]

Ahh

[pure raven]

Devon ate the Inu Inu no Mi, Model: Kyubi no Kitsune, a Mythical Zoan-type Devil Fruit that allows her to transform into a nine-tailed fox. With this power, she can transform into clones of people similar to the Mane Mane no Mi.

[lone plaza]

nah cause it still wouldn’t make sense for Oden’s swords not to be the same as in his flashback

[tepid hinge]

she has the 9 tail mythical zone

[lunar whale]

Devon met who in lvl 6?

[tepid hinge]

no one, she was put there because she was strong, she pry clashed with oden before

[umbral gulch]

Remember their convo before odens execution ,toki said she wouldn't let oden die or rather he will not die

[lunar whale]

It's still bizarre lol

[lone plaza]

but that still doesn’t make sense for Oden’s swords not to be the same

[tepid hinge]

which part?

[umbral gulch]

Look back in the chapter , he gave it to tokie

[lone plaza]

if anyone can tel me why they’re not the same then i’ll believe the theory, for now it’s wayyyyy too far fetched

[lunar whale]

Everything but especially being able to get to Onigashima

[pure raven]

I think it would be weird if Toki’s ability could create copies of existing things through time travel

[umbral gulch]

In the prison before execution to give to hiyori and momo lol

[tepid hinge]

you realize how powerful she is right?

[lone plaza]

and also, how did “Oden” not see the person who healed the scabbards

[tepid hinge]

you realize how strong black beards crew is right?

[lone plaza]

i don’t think he does

[tepid hinge]

huh?

[lone plaza]

know how strong they are

[lunar whale]

Lots of people are powerful lol. But power doesn't explain why they can just magically fly to Onigashima

[tepid hinge]

ooo sorry im an idiot xD

[tepid hinge]

how did the straw hats get there? how did the WG get there?

[lone plaza]

icl that’s like asking how Jimbei got to wano

[ripe geyser]

Monster trio - Luffy, Enma, Chopper

[umbral gulch]

Why cant i put the image here where he gives the sword lol

[tepid hinge]

there are many ways in, its hard, but possible

[lunar whale]

Because Onigashima wasn't in the air at the time

[pure raven]

The only scaling reference we have is who was in Impel Down’s 6th level, but the range of power goes from Crocodile up to Doflamingo. You could reference the encounter with Moriah, but that’s not really showing anyone’s power

[tepid hinge]

she could have been there before?

[weak arrow]

!pics

[lone hedge]

Get a role (pirate/revo/marine/civilian) in #old-role-info to be able to post pictures!

[umbral gulch]

Also im hype about the lurking legend that the sh will face

[chilly helm]

I think Act 3 may end with Kaido succeeding with his Onigashima plan

[umbral gulch]

!pics

[lone hedge]

Get a role (pirate/revo/marine/civilian) in #old-role-info to be able to post pictures!

[tepid hinge]

yes but, she was back in the old era, with Rocks and such, it shows her power back then

[lone plaza]

they already faced i swear

[pure raven]

We know that Devon is ~27 years younger than Big Mom. It’s not really the same era as Rocks

[lone plaza]

i thought the lurking legend was the rebirth of rocks

^big mom and kaido

[chilly helm]

I agree

[lunar whale]

Think we'll get the return of The Rocks's?

[lone plaza]

or it could be blackbeard who tries to create his own version of rocks as he is rn

[lunar whale]

It'd be cool for them to reunite again

[lone plaza]

since luffy carries the will of roger, bb carries the will of rocks

[chilly helm]

We are already seeing it I think, unless theres even more member alive who are going to join this is the closest we'll get.

[tepid hinge]

alright, then it would still be early great pirate era, which the seas were alot rougher then they are now

[lunar whale]

Perhaps we'll be seeing God Valley

[lone plaza]

he said the lurking legend will be the greatest enemy the SH will ever face, you think luffy won’t fight anyone stronger than big mom and kaido ever again?

[pure raven]

What’s this referring to?

[lone plaza]

there’s nothing we can really say about that cause it’s so vague

[lone plaza]

when Oda mentioned the lurking legend and its purpose in the story

[lunar whale]

Perhaps it'll be Im lol

[lone plaza]

most likely Imu tbh

[pure raven]

Could I get a link? I probably haven’t read it

[umbral gulch]

I think it is too obvious if its kaido or bigmom

[lunar whale]

It's one of the Jump Fests Aqua

[lone plaza]

lemme find where he said it

[pure raven]

Is it from an SBS?

[umbral gulch]

May be rock d. Xebec?lol

[lunar whale]

You may aswell read up on all of the jump fest leak

[pure raven]

Oh gotcha

[tepid hinge]

Shiki?

[lunar whale]

Shanks is also making his move this year Oda said

[lone plaza]

yep

Shanks Vs. Blackbeard

[tepid hinge]

mhm, but i wouldnt be surprised if it was early 2022

[pure raven]

Yeah idk where to look

[lone plaza]

do you guys think the 4 Yonko Saga will be the last ever saga of one piece?

[lunar whale]

Me neither

[lone plaza]

bearing in mind that an arc is different to a saga

[lunar whale]

Probably not. 1 or two more I'd say

[umbral gulch]

They beat him in the movie i think, plus hes not relevant to the story?

[lone plaza]

2 more sagas???

[pure raven]

An Elbaf arc would be nice

[lone plaza]

Shiki too weak, he lost to pts luffy lol

[pure raven]

[lunar whale]

Shiki was part of The Rocks I think so he could be relevant someway

[lunar whale]

Idk I'm just guessing lol

[lone plaza]

shiki is canon, but i’m not sure if the movie is

[pure raven]

Movie Shiki was fodder. Canon Shiki took on “Prime” Sengoku and Garp

[tepid hinge]

he isnt, but he is cannon, and he was seen by the whatever her name is xD the one who has Mr.2's fruit

[tepid hinge]

its oda so, it wouldnt be surprising to anyone xD

[lone plaza]

i personally think like 3 more arcs, elbaf, raftel, then final war arc

[pure raven]

Maybe Rocks Crew vs. Red Hair and SHs

[lunar whale]

We were supposed to be in Wano like a year earlier then we were supposed to be

[lone plaza]

cause wci is an arc not a saga and it was like 100 episodes

[tepid hinge]

hey, its odas story so i dont blame him when it goes late then he thought xD

[lone plaza]

i like the way Oda structures one piece tho

[dry lynx]

Isn't WCI the water 7 of Ennis Lobby arc

[pure raven]

[dry lynx]

To Wano

[lone plaza]

no the opposite, it’s the enies lobby arc of water 7 saga

[pure raven]

Zou was the Water 7

[tepid hinge]

its amazing, he sets everything up great, im just saying he does dely a lot xD

[lunar whale]

Yeah me neither. It's a huge manga so it was a rough estimation lol. I'd say it'll be like that when he said One Piece would end in 5 years. It'll probably be a little longer as that's only a rough estimation

[lone plaza]

ik what you mean, dressrosa was way longer than it should’ve been

[tepid hinge]

i say from 4-7

[lone plaza]

probs the longest saga in one piece to date

[tepid hinge]

very true, but he wrote what he thought was best so i dont really care all too much

[dry lynx]

I'm trying to say, the saga is stretched and started on Zoe, and seems to be concluding in wano

[lone plaza]

same

[tepid hinge]

i think Wano is now longer, maybe wrong (i know its close tho)

[pure raven]

Actually, I feel like there’s still a good way to go. We still have to see what happens with the Navy as well as the Revolutionary Army

[lone plaza]

everything was all cool and calm until Sanji disappeared 🤣🤣🤣

[lone plaza]

it just feels long cause we’re watching and reading it weekly, and the reverie arc is broken into fractures between it

[tepid hinge]

thats why i say a max of 7 more years

[dry lynx]

I got my favourite villian from that arc, sooooo? Thanks Sanji?

[lunar whale]

Agreed

[pure raven]

Allegedly we have until 2025 but that’s an estimate

[tepid hinge]

luffy VS Usopp >>>>>>>>>> luffy VS Sanji
change my mind

[lone plaza]

idkkkkk cause the story seems like it’s really coming to an end

[lunar whale]

Luffy Vs Zoro would be better

[tepid hinge]

he said that himself, i just know he has a lot he wants to tell without forcing it

[dry lynx]

We had that first

[lone plaza]

Luffy Vs Usopp was the one of the greatest moments

[tepid hinge]

indeed

[lone plaza]

water 7 is still my favourite saga

[tepid hinge]

it was not good at all tho

[pure raven]

I feel like there’s no way Oda’s just going to leave people in the dark about the fate of the Navy and the Revolutionaries. If anything, I think he’s been focusing on Luffy a lot recently because he wants to move the spotlight away from him in the future.

[tepid hinge]

same

[lone plaza]

yeah i get what you mean

[lunar whale]

I'd still love to see them fight again to see how their strength compare

[tepid hinge]

it looks like that, but theres still a lot he wants to tell, WHICH leads to the amazing story yet to come

[lone plaza]

we need to see if Dragon is a fluke or not, he needs to show us that wind logia in action man

[pure raven]

I could see something like Sakazuki killing Coby for disobeying orders and sparking a war with the SH Grand Fleet

[wild veldt]

Wind paramecia *

[sharp cape]

i don’t think oda will kill anyone big anytime soon

[tepid hinge]

we dont know yet so xD

[wild veldt]

[lone plaza]

wind is a natural element, if it’s paramecia it would’ve been to nerf him

[sharp cape]

i don’t want to admit it but ussop is the most likely strawhat to die or zoro

[dry lynx]

So I think Oden helps here, goes back writes about Pirates liberating Wano in his logbook and dies? He did a Dr. Strange and saw that this was the only correct timeline?

[pure raven]

I feel like this story will end with one of the Monster Trio dead

[lone plaza]

if Coby dies imma be so sad man

[wild veldt]

Nerfs don't work like that

[lone plaza]

not one of the monster trio, i think original SH in general

[tepid hinge]

the actual story, maybe, the anime tho, no, they want to market it so much

[pure raven]

Logias aren’t necessarily superior; they just have different mechanics

[tepid hinge]

very true

[pure raven]

Manga readers will have a heart attack if they switch it up lmao

[lunar whale]

Look at Blackbeard. He can still be punched lol

[lone plaza]

it’s like how he made Katakuri a special paramecia when he was initially a logia

[dry lynx]

So I think Oden helps here, goes back writes about Pirates liberating Wano in his logbook and dies? He did a Dr. Strange and saw that this was the only correct timeline?

What do you think about this?

[tepid hinge]

i mean the anime is already changing alot so xD

[sharp cape]

superior in the fact that you need haki to even fight someone with a logia df

[wild veldt]

Oden isn't coming back to just die. He isn't back now

[tepid hinge]

yes, but thats only a advantage when you are weaker, not as much the stronger people you face

[wild veldt]

You don't need haki to fight a logia

[tepid hinge]

hes a fake 100%

[lone plaza]

making him a paramecia wouldnt be realistic since natural elements are supposed to be ideally be logia fruits

[dry lynx]

I suspect that too, but it's Oda

[tepid hinge]

yes and no, there is sea prism and natural weaknesses but still

[sharp cape]

oda bringing back people from the dead isn’t his style

[wild veldt]

It's just yes

[umbral gulch]

What do you think on MoMo s DF is it really a failure? Or as powerful as Kaidos DF?

[lone plaza]

Oda said he doesn’t like reviving people who already clearly died

[wild veldt]

Franky literally grabbed Caribou without haki

[dry lynx]

He isn't back from dead, just that he isn't dead yet

[lone plaza]

Franky is a cyborg tho

[pure raven]

Logias do not act as an automatic dodging system. The user has to be aware of the attack and permate their body prior to the attack. For example, we see Smoker, a logia user, get hit by Luffy when he gets sent flying into the captain in the Alabasta diner.

It seems that the key difference is that most if not all of the logias can change the body’s composition while only certain paramecia can do the same. Hence, a body-manipulating paramecia could theoretically have the same permeation capabilites as a logia

[wild veldt]

Being a cyborg against a logia isn't anything special

[tepid hinge]

^^^ it is training, most have it but not the cocky bastards

[wild veldt]

Haki isn't required but it certainly helps

And that's in all cases

[lone plaza]

i thought it was cause Luffy was born with haki but never knew how to use it

[lunar whale]

Exactly. Look at Luffy and Crocodile

[wild veldt]

Everyone is born with the ability to use coa and coo

[pure raven]

[tepid hinge]

@wild veldt, as crocodile said when he was the main villain, it was a training he did, luffy can hit him but his body naturally changed, not all logias go for the training tho

[wild veldt]

It's just a matter of unlocking it

[pure raven]

Haki is the only guaranteed way to hit a permated logia, pretty much. Every other method is situational or conditional based on the fruit and its user

[lone plaza]

question: does a logia need haki to hit another logia?

[tepid hinge]

^^^^

[wild veldt]

No

[weak arrow]

if their element affects them, then no

[lone plaza]

thought so

[tepid hinge]

depends on the elements.

[wild veldt]

Elemental matchups matter, equipment, other sources

[umbral gulch]

Smoker vs ace haha

[weak arrow]

say smoke vs sand, they would not be able to harm each other without haki using only their devil fruits

[lone plaza]

ohhh

[weak arrow]

But Aokiji and Akainu would be able to harm each other without it

[wild veldt]

But ace would kill monet just by being close

[tepid hinge]

yes, bc they dont have similar elements (like fire and magma, we saw how that one worked)

[tepid hinge]

yes, they are opposite elements

[lone plaza]

do you think aokiji vs akainu was awakening?

[wild veldt]

No

[shadow jewel]

[lone plaza]

since they turned the island permanently into their domain

[tepid hinge]

im just saying

[weak arrow]

Why are you replying with what I mean

[lunar whale]

I'd like to say they are awakened. They've had their devil fruits for sometime I believe

[lone plaza]

yh they have

[tepid hinge]

i think enis lobby was the light fruit awakening and gravity fruit awakening, making it the floating forever day island

[lone plaza]

aokiji and akainu have had theirs since robin’s past incident, and kizaru since arlong was jailed as far as we know

[tepid hinge]

i support this theory ^^ XD

[lone plaza]

i thought fuji was new to his fruit

[tepid hinge]

i think he is, the former users tho

[lone plaza]

ohhh

[tepid hinge]

maybe kizaru killed the past user and got the fruit and gave it to the marines and ya know xD

[junior sphinx]

So kaido is dragon confirmed and ate some human human fruit right cuz vegapunk took his blood and made momo dragon fruit using his bloodline.

[tepid hinge]

no?

[shadow jewel]

Oh yea I just realized that

[tepid hinge]

he ate the fish fish fruit

[weak arrow]

No he’s confirmed a human with a fish fish fruit

[shadow jewel]

They used Kaido’s blood to make a dragon fruit

[tepid hinge]

'human'

[lunar whale]

I wonder what Big Mom did for Kaido 😮

[tepid hinge]

DEVIL FRUITS CHANGE THE USERS DNA AS ODA HAS SAID

[weak arrow]

She gave him the fruit, that’s what she did

[junior sphinx]

Oh true

[tepid hinge]

^^^^^^

[shadow jewel]

Oh makes sense then, nvm what I said

[weak arrow]

Please stop replying and pinging me

[tepid hinge]

youre fine xD. most people forget that interview xD

[tepid hinge]

sorry m8 xD

[dusky acorn]

Thanks for sharing lillahk, I agree with a lot in this theory. The one thing I do disagree about is the possibility of Urouge following Enel all the way up to Skypeia, that's very weird lol.
It's much more plausible that Birka was the place where Urouge not only fought, but lost and was forced to fall to the Blue Sea. We even know Birka was home to "strong warriors" who Enel defeated, so Urouge fits really well as one of them.

Also, if he literally fell down from Birka, then that gives literal meaning to his crew name, as he's an actual monk who fell. We know Oda enjoys doing those puns like with Apoo when he entered the New World, he had him literally running on air.

But yeah, I'm not sure how many saw, but I actually edited in a possible past history with Enel AS Urouge's motive to join Blackbeard's crew, so both theories can actually coincide well.
Since Urouge described Blackbeard as the "key", there had to be some good reason for it back then beyond thinking about allying for plain old self-preservation in the New World. That doesn't make sense especially when Urouge didn't even experience how dangerous the New World even was back then, so it couldn't have been the reason yet.

Instead, I think it's very likely that Urouge has a grudge over Enel as he literally destroyed his homeland. This means the reason he became a pirate after falling was to seek out stronger people to join who he knew could defeat him, and had motive to do so. Then comes in Blackbeard, the strongest pirate Urouge had seen (a guy who even has THE logia countering fruit) who literally proclaims this age his era

_ _
If you imagine Urouge telling Blackbeard he'd only join his crew on a condition that they pay a certain person (Enel) a visit in the sky someday, then he'd probably oblige, telling Urouge that it's fine since his end goal is conquering the world anyway, including the skies. Blackbeard wouldn't even have to necessarily care about Urouge's goal anyway, he could just be using him and saying that to get another strong member on his crew.

[tepid hinge]

my god... the essay...

[dusky acorn]

And of course I'm not even saying Enel has to come back physically into the story again, it's just that tieing him into his backstory gives us a way to care/emphasize for Urouge, give him a reason to join Blackbeard, AND give a reason for him to cross paths with Luffy, and possibly convert into a good guy (If he somehow learns Luffy already defeated Enel for him)

[tepid hinge]

that makes alot of sense, i doubt he would be part of whatever shanks ark will be (eblaf most likely) so that fits really well

[pure raven]

Then comes in Blackbeard, the strongest pirate Urouge had seen (a guy who even has THE logia countering fruit) who literally proclaims this age his era
I love this

Urouge is a character with so much potential depth and I genuinely can't wait to see Oda do him at least a little bit of justice

[lone plaza]

she give him the fish fish

[tepid hinge]

we already told him that ^^

[dusky acorn]

Definitely gotta agree, characters like him who we don't know much about but have a sense of mystery are pretty fun to try filling the holes for

[lone plaza]

elbaf gonna be the next arc but, who gonna be the villain of elbaf

is it gonna be like a zou arc where they just chill for a bit to talk about the future plans?

[shadow pike]

I wonder if Big Mom chases them to Elbaf, that's the last race she's missing right

[lone plaza]

i doubt she’s going past wano

[tepid hinge]

shanks is a likely thing

[lone plaza]

shanks?????!?? a villain????????????

[tepid hinge]

mhm

[lone plaza]

never 🤣🤣🤣

[shadow pike]

You think they beat both Yonko here? (Not saying you're right or wrong) I just imagine they'll take down Kaido here first and Big Mom will be the primary antagonist later. Perospero's dialogue makes me think that the Big Mom pirates are going to break the alliance and flee

[tepid hinge]

not a villain but the antagonist, he is wants luffy to be stronger then him, it will be his test

[sharp cape]

do you guys ever meet those kizaru fanboys that believe he’s the strongest character in op?

[tepid hinge]

i think he has the ability to become of the the strongest but ya know "lazy justice"

[lone plaza]

the reason why i say big mom isn’t going past is cause don’t the straw hats and everyone need some time to rest after the battle and mourn about the people who died fighting for their country

[lone plaza]

they embarrassing

[lone plaza]

yhh true

[tepid hinge]

there is an chance he is a true villain tho, i dont think he is a villain but someone who will be an antagonist and work against luffy, head cannon tho, who knows where oda will go with it to

[lone plaza]

if he does, the whole plot of one piece will shift entirely

in a very good way

[tepid hinge]

exactly, oda likes when stuff like this happens

[lone plaza]

“i’m here to speak about a specific pirate” plot twist: the pirate = luffy

[sharp cape]

oda definitely spent a lot of thinking on the admirals

[lone plaza]

and in wano aswell

[tepid hinge]

mhm, he may have brought up black beard but luffy may have been the one he was talking about

[lone plaza]

orochi is named after his fruit, so is toki

[tepid hinge]

i think each one of them in yanko level
3 admirals + SSG/Warlords = 4 yanko

they dont go after yanko bc of the power vacuum it creates tho (they were lucky black beard took power so fast tbh)

[ancient vault]

@dusky acorn Youre here?

[dusky acorn]

Yep, what's up swrml

[ancient vault]

Need you to lift slowmode in a sec got a theory I wanna post. Its quite long

[worldly yew]

I like the user name, a man of class i see

[dusky acorn]

Gotcha, I'm excited for it. Will delete any messages of others in between

[pure raven]

It's theory time

[tepid hinge]

indeed

[worldly yew]

If there is going to be a possible gear 5th what do you guys think it would be

[lunar whale]

It could be him being able to adjust his size. not just part of his body but being able to turn into a giant

[ancient vault]

@dusky acorn lets go

Rocks D. Xebec: The Devourer of Gods THEORY:

In this theory I want to address an open plot point I have noticed and how it ties to Rocks D. Xebec and the Celestial Dragons. I'll theorize a bit about Xebec's potential personality as well as his devil fruit and the God Valley Incident.

---

**Celestial Dragons being eaten: **

Back in chapter 764 Corazon brought up a common saying for the kids in the community of the Celestial Dragons.
"IF YOU DON'T BEHAVE, YOU'LL BE GOBBLED UP BY A D."
I think this saying similar to many other sayings in our real world has some truth behind it.
The only way Corazon can know about this is if this saying came up regularly in the time he still lived in Mary Joa alongside the other Celestial Dragons. So let's look at the timeline:

• Corazon was born 39 year ago
• Left Mary Joa at age 6 so 33 years ago

So assuming you have to be at least 1 year old to remember sth (Momo remembers Roger even at age 2) lets go with the assumption that Corazon had heard this between 38 and 33 years ago. Corazon said this when he was 23 years old so its not that much of a stretch to assume he remembers a common saying from his childhood. All of this must've happened at least more than 34 years ago but most likely more than 38 years ago.

How does Rocks play into this?

We know Rocks regularly hosted terror-attacks against the World Government and most likely hated the Celestial Dragons since it seems like he was clearly targeting them in the God Valley incident (also based on his real life inspiration which I get into later in this theory).
Important here is the God Valley Incident. I think its the actual root of this saying. The God Valley Incident was 38 years ago and Rocks era was over 40 years ago so it is perfectly in line with the time line I have presented before.

The celestial Dragons specifically themselves, not just the Gorosei, seem to have feared/still fear the D.s. But judging by how the Celestial Dragons act they seem to have no actual interest in their past and history and that they most likely went to war against the D.s back in the day or sth like that. They were probably told so but didnt take it serious because noone has ever challenged or threatened them before for centuries. Whats more rational in my opinion is the possibility of a recent event reminding them about the threat of the D.s. And this goes perfectly in line with Rocks D. Xebec and the God Valley Incident.

According to Sengoku, Rocks broke the worlds biggest taboos. These taboos most likely include the ancient weapons and/or the history of the World. This most likely included something about the history and the meaning of "D." possibly resulting in Rocks becoming proud of his name D. or something like that.
Either way it must have stood out to the Celestial Dragons.

How does this correlate to the phrase Corazon brought up though?

This might sound like a stupid reach but hear me out first ( ).

The popular belief is that the D stands for a smile/laugh because it looks like an open mouth. And while that could be true, I don't think Oda is trying to set one single definition for it. I think he's trying to keep it universal and likes to play around with it, like a symbol with multiple meanings or ways it can be interpreted. So going back to what it could symbolize I think one of the other options is the following:
The first observation that it looks like a mouth is correct. But its empty. There are no teeth in the way and the mouth is completely open, similar to how you open your mouth when you eat or want to bite something. I think what the Celestial Dragons saw might've been a (huge) mouth opening and it manifested as the D.s eating Celestial Dragons in their community.
This is not supposed to mean that this is the actual meaning of "D.". No, I'm just saying this could be Oda just playing around with it similar to how he does with "D." symbolizing a laugh :D (like Laugh Tale). Unless the D. literally does stand for laughing in the OP-Verse which I heavily doubt.

What does that have to do with Rocks knowing about the history and meaning of D? I think Rocks somehow (I won't go into detail for this now) found out about the whole "Gods natural enemy"-idea and that's why he started these terror attacks. Whether it also has to do with his past life maybe as a child or whether he just believed that was his purpose in life (I tend towards this) is not that important for now. Both result in the same thing: him hunting down Celestial Dragons.

What stood out to me was the title of chapter 957 in which the God Valley Incident and all this extra information was revealed. The most important thing about this chapter at least in-verse wise was the mention of the God Valley Incident. This and the fact that Sengoku made clear that they have regularly hosted terror attacks against the World Government before.

The title of that chapter is "Ultimate". Many thought "Ultimate" was a reference to the the Rocks pirates as the ultimate pirate crew or the bounties. But looking at the definition of "ultimate" I think there's another option open I've seen nobody address before:

According to the Cambridge dictionary the "Ultimate" means:
most extreme or important because either the original or final, or the best or worst
What I wanna focus on here are the words "most extreme or important" and "final"
As I've said the focus of that chapter was the God Valley Incident and Sengoku had told us about past terror attacks against the WG (= CD).
Putting these two things together the God Valley Incident was Rocks ultimate mission/attack on the WG/CD. It was his most extreme, most important and final mission.
I'm not gonna go into detail for this theory about how he found out about all the Celestial Dragons gathering on God Valley but that must've been his wake up call to start this final mission/attack. Also Corazon mentioned that the elderly raise their eyebrow when the name D. comes up.
Just for clearance, I believe on God Valley there's a reoccurring ritual/tradition that only elderly people can attend and not younger. That's why younger folks like Corazon have no idea about the meaning of what they were told as kids.

Again. He was actively hunting them down and coordinated entire missions and terror attacks against them. I believe he is the biggest reason why the Celestial Dragons of recent times fear the D.s so much along side Roger of course.
What I find interesting though is that Whitebeard had no idea about this. He doesnt really know about meaning of the "D.".
I think this is just another showcase of his character. Xebec was a quite arrogant person that did not tell his business. Questioning the captains business meant death. That's how his crew operated most likely. They lend him his strength and he promised them fame and fortune, no further questions asked.

So of course literal cannibalism is pretty hard and not One Piece like so I think most of us would agree that at least a devil fruit of some sort was most likely in play here.
According to the VIZ-translation "gobble" was the most fitting translation for what Corazon was saying.
"Gobbling" is generally used in the context of eating particularly noisily. So I think the idea of Xebec having the Yami Yami no mi and "consuming" the Celestial Dragons through his black hole makes no sense. As well as generally nobody making any comment about Blackbeard's showing his darkness abilities makes it very unlikely that Xebec actually had this fruit.
A Zoan seems most likely and most fitting to me.
So what kind of Zoan? Obviously it has to be a Zoan that is carnivorous.

Looking at his Jolly Roger (the one we've seen at least) we can see something that looks like flames. I believe that is a symbol for his power. So his devil fruit is fire related and it is therefore a mythical type.

Inu Inu no Mi Mythical Type: Hellhound
A hellhound is to put it in simple words just a supernatural dog linked to hell or a devil. He is generally pictured with flames and has flaming powers. I think an example of these fire abilities and a hint is the skeleton at the front of his ship in the panel above.
The basis for this is Rocks D. Xebecs real life inspiration: Roche (Also: Rocks) Braziliano. While there are some other things that could definitely be an inspiration for Xebecs character I'm gonna focus on two things.

1. Braziliano was known as the must cruel pirate to ever roam the seas. This fits my assumption of Xebec being a brutal murderer that ate humans.
2. Braziliano absolutely hated the Spaniards to death. He hunted them, tortured and murdered them brutally. The Spaniards and the Spanish Empire here are a parallel to the Celestial Dragons and the World Government since Spain also used to rule the world back in the real life pirate era.

Now look at what I summarized about Braziliano's hate towards Spaniards:

His hate for the Spanish. He would horribly torture Spanish people, more than anyone else.
In one saying he roasted two Spanish farmers alive on wooden spits after they refused to hand over their pigs. He treated his Spanish prisoners barbarously, typically cutting off their limbs or roasting them alive over a fire.
In another saying his pirate flag carried the image of a skeleton with the text "The body of a Spaniard."

Now it should be pretty easy to see where I'm coming from.
We know Rocks hated and actively hunt down Celestial Dragons and we know he was most likely a very cruel person towards them.
Rocks than burned the Celestial Dragon to the bones with his fire abilities and put their skeleton on the front of his ship for everyone to see, similar to Braziliano's image of a Spaniard's skeleton on his pirate flag.

Back to how this connects to Corazons saying of D.s eating Celestial Dragons.

As I've said before a hellhound is really just a supernatural dog linked to hell or a devil, so Oda could have taken any dog myth that is related to hell or a devil for this fruit and we know Oda likes to not stay firm on one source of inspiration but rather mix them a bit together (good example is Momotaro or Kaido in Wano arc).
What I found are Dingoes. Dingoes in some of Aboriginal folklore are linked to the devil, so they can basically be described as hellhounds (theyre also linked on the Hellhounds wikipedia page). In these myths dingoes are portrayed as wild and human devouring devils. A picture book for example is called "The Giant Devil Dingo". And in general real dingoes in Australia are known to just carry off and devour human babies which fits to what they tell the children in Mary Joa.

Another possibility would be the Cerberus, the three headed hellhound.
This idea would definitely further support the connection to Blackbeard. I am not saying they are related through family nor am I saying Blackbeard has the Cerberus fruit but there exists a a bit of a Cerberus theme around Blackbeard's character. If you read a bit about Cerberus mythology you'll notice a few more similarities than the three heads.

Overall a devil fruit directly linked to hell and the devil like the hellhound would be the perfect fit to emphasize the phrase of the D.s being "God's natural enemy" and just be very symbolic.
Additionally I believe Xebec used to look like an actual devil in his hybrid form and that the believe of the D.s being "God devouring devils" manifested in their minds especially because of him again.
Some general designs:

Possibly Rocks maybe was focused only on eating babies for whatever reason (maybe wanted to stop them from growing older and gaining power or sth) but these are just minor specific details that don't really change my theory but rather adjust it just a bit.

What I want to point out towards the end is so you don't misunderstand. Rocks was not a good guy at all. He was most likely the most cruel pirate to ever exist and did not give a single damn about even innocent life's. Sengoku made this very clear when he mentioned that Garp and Roger had to protect the Celestial Dragons AND THE SLAVES. He was not there to free those people. No, he did not care. His goal was still simply to be the King of the World.

Now just a little bonus if you think this is a bit to cruel for One Piece I like to point out that this is the time the manga will get more serious and darker. We're reaching the climax of the entire story and the dark secrets of the world are about to be revealed. Adding do that this is a flashback in which Oda likes to go off a bit more to create a more serious, more darker and tragic past.
Generally I believe this would be a very interesting idea for Xebec's character and would let him stand out from every single other character in the entire series.

So to sum up:

• What Corazon had told us in chapter 764 is actually based on Rocks.
• The fear of Rocks and the D.s within the Celestial Dragons grew bigger through out Rocks era and had its peak through the God Valley incident resulting in a common phrase that they tell their children when they misbehave
• Rocks absolutely despised Celestial Dragons to the point where he was actively hunting them down and murdering them.
• Rocks has the Inu Inu no Mi Mythical Type: Hellhound with fire abilities
• Rocks devoured Celestial Dragons and turns into what the Celestial Dragons mean when they think of the D.s.

@craggy pumice @copper frost @grizzled fog @zinc iris @visual merlin @green roost @night jewel @dark palm
Tell me if you dont wanna be pinged next time just want some feedback and this chat to be serious again

[night jewel]

lemme give it a read, gimme a bit

[lyric dust]

yeah, my b, the chat didn't immediately go to the bottom

lmfao

[ancient vault]

All good I saw it and laughed lmao

[lyric dust]

i hate when discord does that lmfao

[copper frost]

am reading now, swrml

[green roost]

this looks interesting im gonna give it a read in a bit

[lyric dust]

it's very interesting, yeah

[pure raven]

The prodigal son has blessed us with another theory

[queen arrow]

so this is why you where asking about the Thriller Bark Cerberus

[ancient vault]

Yup, it wasnt that important but I was just curious

[grizzled fog]

Oooooh

[lyric dust]

do you think he has just a regular hellhound fruit or like a specific type of a hellhound

[ancient vault]

A hellhound with fire abilities. There are different types. For example theres this very black dog (lol) let me show u a pic

[copper frost]

Finished reading it up, just need some time to process what was said and I'll tell you what I thought about it. Amazingly well researched tho, good stuff

[ancient vault]

This would also fit him I believe but I focused on the fire idea because of the jolly roger

[ancient vault]

This is literally so scary af btw 💀

[kindred quail]

That was a good read, holy heck

[copper frost]

That is indeed scary as fuck

[sharp cape]

but as we saw, marco juzo and whitebeard were fighting even with the three admirals.

[lyric dust]

ah, okay

[ancient vault]

I def wouldve chosen that one if it wasnt for the jolly roger tbh

[lyric dust]

do you know the name for that hellhound?

[kindred quail]

The D interpretation is really fun imo, it could be a stretch but I like it

[ancient vault]

Black Shuck

[tepid hinge]

yeah, but kizaru wasnt taking it seriously, juzo is the #1 tank in the story so far, and white beard is a yanko himself

[ancient vault]

Yeah that was more so a meme lmao had to put it in there lmaaaooo

[dusky acorn]

That was incredible

[lyric dust]

ah okay

[queen arrow]

i have some objections to do with the Cerberus aspect, i really don't see the connection besides the 3 heads thing

and i've read on Cerberus' mythology

[ancient vault]

I think I found 2 more points I believe but yeah I agree with you that part is quite weak matehiqu

[worldly yew]

good theory, just read it. bravo

[dusky acorn]

Well honestly, if Rocks was the REAL character with the mythical cerberus fruit, then that would put a new interpretation on Blackbeard's figurehead. It's to symbolize he's really carrying Rocks' will. I'm not 100% sure how Blackbeard would learn about Rocks' exact devil fruit power but hey, we know he's a history buff!

Also had never thought about how the timeline for Corazon/Doffy being in the holy land matches up perfectly where God Valley would have just concluded soon before

[lyric dust]

the black shuck lowkey does look like rocks' jolly roger

[dusky acorn]

It's definitely more creative than him just having the yami yami and somehow nobody ever commenting on it

It's like Roger* having the gomu gomu

This is something I most certainly prefer

[queen arrow]

damn i was about to correct you

[copper frost]

Incredible stuff btw swrml, I was wondering why you were asking me all of those questions today but this is incredible

[ancient vault]

So the one I remember is that Cerberus was the guard dog of the river styx. The river styx is the crossing point into and out of the underworld. Assuming blackbeard is supposed to be a cerberus he could be the last obstacle luffy has to pass to reach laugh tale and lead the world out of the darkness and hell theyre living in (underworld). Might sound like a reach tho
The other one I forgot
Either way I agree with you its not that strong of an argument and just somewhat there

[ancient vault]

exactly

[queen arrow]

it is a bit of a reach, and it's not like Blackbeard is a guard stopping people from reaching Laugh Tale so the analogy doesn't really work

[ancient vault]

Yeah lmao I tend to try to get it as perfect as possible so I might be a bit annoying with my questions

I'll think about taking it out or I might just leave it in there and act as if I was 100% betting on it when it comes true

[sharp cape]

why does everybody think that? is it because he has a laid back personality? i can guarantee you kaido alone can take on two admirals by himself

[ancient vault]

Thank you

[queen arrow]

people do overstimate Kizaru because of his personality, saying he has never went all out and stuff

[sharp cape]

yes and it annoys me. People really believe he’s the most powerful character in op

[ancient vault]

Next to come soon when I decide to ignore the fact again that I shouldve actually studied

[night jewel]

Just finished reading it up and damn, I never interpreted that statement from corazon as anything more than just a very basic statement that you will hear about devils from anywhere, "the devil will come gobble you up if you dont do this" is a very common phrase but it would make a ton of sense for oda to go very Literal with it, timeline perfectly matches up as well... the god valley incident could even be the reason behind Doffy and Corazon's "obsession" with the D., it could have been the "talk of the town" at the time and thats what shaped up their aspects of personality related to the D.

And not much to say about the Devil fruit, it makes a ton of sense, wayyyyyy more than him having the Yami Yami so yeah, Great theory man, was an excellent read

[lyric dust]

it also makes way more sense than him having the fucking azure dragon fruit

[ancient vault]

"the talk of the town" actually fits this pretty well. They must've heard this a lot around that time but they never have witnessed anything about this so they had no real time. When asking they probably were told its none of their business and if they act up again a D. will eat them or something.

[dusky acorn]

Whatever Rocks' potential fruit was, I hope for it to be revealed once Kaido gets his backstory.
Some kind of spin-off of a fiery demon dog will definitely be my go to guess until then though

[cyan berry]

its probably Blackbeard's

[tepid hinge]

he is laid back yes, he is strong yes, but he really doesnt care at the end of the day and that shows with his actions

[queen arrow]

i don't really believe the theory overall, making the generic phrase about the "D"s being the Celestial Dragon Boogeyman in to theory material is something i'd honestly call a bit ridiculous, but it was a fun read and it's not as bad as other things i've heard

[ancient vault]

🤝

[ancient vault]

youss lost it in the times of "real oden is alive" too now

[cyan berry]

huh why

[ancient vault]

Unless that was a joke

[green roost]

im liking this theory a lot, the real life rocks connections seems fitting, and since blackbeard's ship's name is "sabre of xebec" and he has 3 skulls on his flag, i would completely buy xebec of the past having the Cerberus fruit, that does NOT mean i think blackbeard currently has the Cerberus fruit and can hold 3 fruits now or something like that, this simply connects the 3 heads on the flag to his fascination with rocks (if he has a fascination with him)

[ancient vault]

Xebec having Blackbeards fruit makes no sense unless youre expecting Garp, Sengoku, Kaido, Big Mom and Whitebeard as well as the Gorosei to not say a single thing about it

[cyan berry]

i mean its more of a vlind guess

[acoustic helm]

Why BB after ace df anyway

[burnt ibex]

Just to be stronger

[green roost]

he was originally after luffy but he took ace instead

[burnt ibex]

why wouldn't they want another logia

[green roost]

ace got in the way

[frail lava]

nice theory, what about the fact that the island disappear? the other DF theory about him where trying to "explain" how it could have been xebec power. Did hellhound or cerberus have a power that can create something like destroying god valley?

[grizzled fog]

I really like that theory swrml

[dusky acorn]

Blackbeard wanted Burgess to have Ace's fruit because it'd be like having his 'very own Ace' on his crew, in his own words

[acoustic helm]

Hmm

[grizzled fog]

Creative, the idea of Rocks literally devouring CDs is awesome, I can totally see there being a literal meaning to the saying from Corzaon

[ancient vault]

Yup theres a bit more about the real life inspiration I've theorized on I'll post it later or tomorrow I think

thx vemqi I just really want Rocks to be an outstanding character totally different from the rest and very brutal fitting to his reputation

[green roost]

blackbeard tried to follow luffy up to skypeia and failed , he still had his sights set on him , but ace chased him down because of thatch's death and found out he was after luffy too, so he tried to put a stop to him there, blackbeard only got ace incidentally, not on purpose

to expand upon my answer to Man

oh unless you meant post ts...lol

[ancient vault]

No, from what I know no type of hellhound has abilities like that except of course Xebecs sheer raw strength alone which wouldnt suprise me. Probably Roger, Garp, Whitebeard, Big Mom and Xebec couldve single handedly destroyed the entire island tbh (assuming its not made of some special material). It didnt even seem that big.

[green roost]

would love to hear the rest

[ancient vault]

I got another idea how Tamas fruit actually ties back completely to god valley

[dusky acorn]

If Whitebeard had his fruit in that time then yeah, he alone could destroy the island lol

Definitely no stretch to say the island was just obliterated generally by the conflict

[ancient vault]

But I havent thought it out yet so its just an idea for now

[green roost]

ive actually never thought about the concept of fruits getting destroyed

[ancient vault]

[green roost]

thats never even been brought up in the series in the slightest