neofetch is my one true love
#dev-general
cinder flare
obtuse gale
boreal needle
arch btw :P
gusty glen
Linux doesn't run most of my games :/
cinder flare
arch btw :P
hmmm not a kitty user I see
boreal needle
ok yeah ill give you that
obtuse gale
star be like "oh ew arch pleb gentoo ftw"
cinder flare
Linux doesn't run most of my games :/
Proton is pretty solid nowadays
boreal needle
hmmm not a kitty user I see
im a simple girl
cinder flare
im a simple girl
kitty is simple
boreal needle
so is urxvt
rotund egret
Windows can run LoL, but windows can also uninstall
check mate
cinder flare
yeah it does
ocean quartz
star be like "oh ew arch pleb gentoo ftw"
The linux distro fight is actually worse than linux vs windows fight lmao
cinder flare
the speed at which it shows your text or can render lines is actually very important
boreal needle
hannah montana linux is best linux
cinder flare
you can definitely tell the difference between kitty and the default like usb boot full-screen terminal
cinder flare
The linux distro fight is actually worse than linux vs windows fight lmao
no cause at the end of the day I still respect any distro user
boreal needle
does it do truecolor
ocean quartz
Windows can run LoL, but windows can also _uninstall_
check mate
Uninstalling league of legends? Don't think that's an option
cinder flare
does it do truecolor
of course
rotund egret
Wouldn't know, I've never installed it
boreal needle
brb installing it
ocean quartz
Good, don't do it, you're better of like that
gusty glen
Proton is pretty solid nowadays
yeah, so are the screen tearing through all apps on the system! unless I manually hack it to enable global vsync on it
boreal needle
how the hell do i configure this thing
cinder flare
yeah, so are the screen tearing through all apps on the system! unless I manuall...
what gpu do you have dude, mine works great
gusty glen
plus dbd doesn't run on linux
boreal needle
and can i make it use xrdb colours
cinder flare
and can i make it use xrdb colours
gusty glen
what gpu do you have dude, mine works great
gtx 970
cinder flare
plus dbd doesn't run on linux
yeah games with DRM or Windows-only anticheats are the only ones you can't get working on Linux usually
which is why I still dual boot windows
errant geyser
Proton is pretty solid nowadays
BattleEye and some other AC doesn't work with Proton, so games like R6S don't work, and Destiny 2 and stuff are currently "borked" on Proton
cinder flare
well yeah obviously
jovial warren
I still use Alacritty lol
cinder flare
until BattlEye and all the DRM/Anticheats step up and finally realize how good linux is for everyone, we're stuck with dual booting 😦
cinder flare
I still use Alacritty lol
that's acceptable, but Kitty is an in-place upgrade essentially
boreal needle
ive gotta say kitty seems a little overkill
i dont need all this tiling stuff, i have i3 for that
jovial warren
and it gives me what over Alacritty exactly?
cinder flare
I mean you don't have to use the tiling
cinder flare
and it gives me what over Alacritty exactly?
better font rendering
gusty glen
@cinder flare what is yours?
cinder flare
what is my what
jovial warren
StarTerm™️
gusty glen
what is my what
gpu
jovial warren
I still use a 1050 Ti lol
cinder flare
I still use a 1050 Ti lol
gusty glen
2 years newer only
rotund egret
I'm using 1060Ti
cinder flare
yeah a lot happened in those two years
gusty glen
according to the release date
cinder flare
and drivers are way better
onyx loom
1060ti? 🤨
cinder flare
don't tell me you're using the noeveau drivers
rotund egret
Yes
errant geyser
I still use a 1050 Ti lol
Same gamerino, works fine for me tho
jovial warren
I don't really play games anymore though
onyx loom
since when does a 1060ti exist
jovial warren
since always
cinder flare
yea all solid options
jovial warren
you have the 1060 6GB founder's edition as well iirc
cinder flare
I just yearn for the day I can buy a 3080 and finally be fulfilled with my life'
boreal needle
i'm one of the 3 people on the planet that bought a vega 56
cinder flare
😬
boreal needle
shut
jovial warren
boreal needle
it was cheap
cinder flare
i mean just a yikes for AMD in general as a GPU maker
jovial warren
I just yearn for the day I can buy a 3080 and finally be fulfilled with my life'
inb4 the new graphics card comes out a few months later that makes your 3080 look like a 750 xD
cinder flare
nah dude the 30 series has been such a major leap in performance
and price as well!
the 20 series was kinda poo poo
rotund egret
Wasn't it like less than 10% perf increase?
cinder flare
uh no
errant geyser
Apparently AMDs next series of GPUs will be even better
onyx loom
we're saying the same thing
ah in that case then yeah we have the same card lol. ive never heard anyone refer to it as a ti tbh
cinder flare
Apparently AMDs next series of GPUs will be even better
jovial warren
Apparently AMDs next series of GPUs will be even better
errant geyser
We can hope, ok
rotund egret
Your hope is better placed in dogecoin at this point
cinder flare
The day AMD makes good GPUs and good drivers will be the day a pig flies
onyx loom
doesnt their DLSS solution just absolutely suck?
boreal needle
the 500 series were great
onyx loom
FSR or smth?
cinder flare
the 500 series were great
yikes okay buddy
their DLSS is kinda poopy yeah
but at least it's available on 10 series cards 🥲
but that's also why it's kind poopy
it's not hardware-based
cinder flare
Wasn't it like less than 10% perf increase?
cinder flare
yeah?
more than 2x in some areas
the 3070 is cheaper than the 2080 ti and beats it
that was the big tagline
rotund egret
smh you don't even play any graphically intensive games
cinder flare
huh
rotund egret
cinder flare
Minecraft with shaders ring a bell?
boreal needle
i can run mc with shaders from my intel iris integrated
a 3080 is a little overkill
rotund egret
I mean, your money, waste it how you wish.
cinder flare
bro what shaders are you running
rotund egret
lord knows I do
cinder flare
not a waste by any stretch of the word
I can't get a consistent 70+ FPS with shaders and a resource pack as it stands
my 144hz monitor needs to be fulfilled
cinder flare
yea
boreal needle
@jovial warren was it you that ran i3 with the default config?
dusk holly
hello i amm being racially profiled in #off-topic
half harness
TY MATT
now i just have ot make it so that u can specify the ip you're connecting to
not just the port
lol
cinder flare
Dang, nice new PFP!
ty ty ❤️
cinder flare
Dang, nice new PFP!
cinder flare
in #developer-chat ? since I got Support
humble silo
Oh lol, well i guess i just didnt notice
humble silo
Whats that from?
cinder flare
Whats that from?
It's a random drawing I found on Pinterest from some tumblr girl lol
uh, you can't do named arguments in Java like that afaik
forest pecan
Star
humble silo
lol i guess that works
forest pecan
why are you using maven
coarse ravine
uh, you can't do named arguments in Java like that afaik
oh oops
cinder flare
why are you using maven
my friend started this plugin back in December '19, before I even knew of Gradle
forest pecan
Oh lol
cinder flare
I have yet to convert it, just checking if it works on 1.17 lol
dusk holly
hello i am here to provide assistance
cinder flare
It's also a piece of crap, but I felt proud that I independently invented /tpa lol
forest pecan
lol
coarse ravine
why are you using maven
im trying to follow a tutorial on how to code plugins and the youtuber told me to use maven idk why
cinder flare
im trying to follow a tutorial on how to code plugins and the youtuber told me t...
He was talking to me lmao
forest pecan
Lol
coarse ravine
lol
forest pecan
I said Star
humble silo
Ftr gradle is kinda not good to start out on, it gets neeedlessly complicated pretty quickly
old wyvern
You dont need any complicated setup to get started
rotund egret
gradle.kts 💕
old wyvern
What did you find not welcoming to new developers?
dusk holly
gradle.usa 🇱🇷 🇱🇷 🇱🇷 🎆
old wyvern
I find the basic part pretty much equivalent if not better than maven
half harness
https://tenor.com/view/jeremy-clark-gif-19630637
lol
quiet depot
hello humans
rotund egret
pig ❤️
humble silo
What did you find not welcoming to new developers?
in gradle? Well when i started out i used maven, but like 6 months ago when i switched literally everything, and doing anything with modules is a pain in the backside
quiet depot
yes gradle too confusing for many people
gradle is simpler than maven
old wyvern
Hello animal that starts with p and ends with ig
dusk holly
gradle is simpler than maven
ok
old wyvern
in gradle? Well when i started out i used maven, but like 6 months ago when i sw...
You dont need to do anything complicated to use modules
old wyvern
create the directory, define it in your settings file
Thats pretty much it
If on ij, it handles that by itself as well
humble silo
You dont need to do anything complicated to use modules
Sorry, to specify, using kotlin or literally compiling them all together or using external jars as automatic modules etc.
Its a pain
ocean quartz
yo uh, how's Vault for 1.17?
Seems to work fine, at least on my test
obtuse gale
yo uh, how's Vault for 1.17?
should work
quiet depot
@humble silo all of that is ez
cinder flare
okay just wondering if I should try to get a new one before I think it's my plugin's fault lol
quiet depot
kotlin is like 1 line, you just have to add a plugin to ur gradle
old wyvern
Its exactly the same as in maven. gradle just provides alternative easier ways with some plugins
quiet depot
external jars are like 3 lines
humble silo
<@!579159669784838144> all of that is ez
ya but that wont get jigsaw modules working
humble silo
And no one uses them, so its impossible to find stuff on it
rotund egret
Your error is using them
humble silo
Probably, but i got it working in the end
cinder flare
wtf are jigsaw modules
humble silo
so now im very happy
cinder flare
we watching Saw now?
quiet depot
the java 9 modules star
cinder flare
okay but have you heard of Java 16
humble silo
lol, they are great and totally suck
cinder flare
and how it's required for 1.17? 🙂
quiet depot
yes
cinder flare
no need for Java 9!!
old wyvern
What
humble silo
and how it's required for 1.17? 🙂
Are they gonna modularize their stuff then?
That would be so nice
old wyvern
Jigsaw is present from 9 onwards
cinder flare
oh what does it do
humble silo
tons of security mostly
quiet depot
star it adds a layer of security
old wyvern
Lets users defined modules to restrict external access
old wyvern
Basically an improvement over old security managers
cinder flare
hmmm
humble silo
Though you can get around most of that if you know anything about classloaders
old wyvern
But this time, its a control freak
cinder flare
doesn't sound very useful for a minecraft plugin
humble silo
no its not
cinder flare
so are you not making a minecraft plugin
ocean quartz
Not many people like it
cinder flare
so your complaints about gradle are that it no use jigsaw which you don't use?
i am confused
humble silo
so your complaints about gradle are that it no use jigsaw which you don't use?
lol, no im working on a project that very heavily uses jigsaw, which gradle does bad at
old wyvern
You dont need gradle to define modules
humble silo
Well its not open source rn, but currently im working on a mixin api
and then some opengl stuff
and its pretty much a modding api for the minecraft client
cinder flare
https://i.imgur.com/KbEbMPO.png I want Paper back 🥲
cinder flare
and its pretty much a modding api for the minecraft client
oh I remember!
humble silo
ya lol, and you told me to go kotlin
so i did, and pain
But i have to say i love it
after the pain
old wyvern
If you really want gradle to generate the module files: https://plugins.gradle.org/search?term=jigsaw
humble silo
lol i have tried so many of those, in the end you really just need the java-library plugin and a couple other custom things
though im pretty sure jigsaw for java works just fine with gradle easy
its just kotiln thats annoying
and those two other things i mentioined
cinder flare
[09:49:33] [Server thread/INFO]: [PlaceholderAPI] https://www.spigotmc.org/resources/placeholderapi.6245/```dev build life
too advanced for the version checker
humble silo
```[09:49:33] [Server thread/INFO]: [PlaceholderAPI] An update for PlaceholderAP...
lol, for some reason i love little things like that
Like the part when it tells you a new update is available, which is so simple, but i love it
humble silo
<https://wiki.helpch.at/piggys-barn/java/gradle/argument>
You make a ton of good arguments for experience java developers to switch over, but someone just learning java doesnt want to have to deal with also learning groovy on the side. With maven its just a super basic syntax and your off
And i do actually get faster build times with maven, but maybe im just bad
lol
humble silo
Well you gotta understand the basics i would argue
old wyvern
You can almost get away with just Java if you want
distant sun
^
humble silo
And the maven syntax may be gassy, but its super east to understand
onyx loom
u seriously do not need basics for groovy
quiet depot
maven's syntax is not easy to understand
humble silo
meanwhile i have no idea what implementation or api or any of these dependency calls are really doing in the background
distant sun
xml is ew
quiet depot
looking at a maven config at first, I have no clue what is going on
especially when it comes to plugin configurations
humble silo
maven's syntax is not easy to understand
Its XML anyone can do that pretty much
quiet depot
maven's plugin configurations are horrendous
old wyvern
Id say the only valid argument against gradle is it being impure. Control flows, io
quiet depot
ffs
old wyvern
Im not circlejerking
onyx loom
hmmmm
humble silo
I would say your arguement is for a experience java dev, someone who is just starting doesnt need all the extra stuff
quiet depot
but maven is the one with the extra stuff
old wyvern
This is also the reason github doesnt fully suppourt gradle dependency tracking and such
forest pecan
extremely limited
humble silo
but maven is the one with the extra stuff
Its gassy, otherwise easy to understand
quiet depot
its configs are usually twice the size of an equivalent gradle config
old wyvern
You cant find the dependencies till you evaluate the script
humble silo
ya lol, that makes it easier
old wyvern
And it is dependent on state
old wyvern
Evaluating the script could execute, well.. anything you could possibly do
quiet depot
I'd be genuinely surprised if someone could mentally process a maven plugin configuration faster than a gradle plugin configuration
with the same amount of experience with both build tools
humble silo
I'd be genuinely surprised if someone could mentally process a maven plugin conf...
Sure, but you really dont need to use them when just starting off learning spigot or java
quiet depot
ok, well then there's the level of complexity gone from both build tools
dusk holly
it will be good
old wyvern
dependencies {
if (somevariable.b().a().c()) {
dependency('io.github.abc:asf:1.0.2')
}
if (someOthervariable.b().a().c()) {
dependency('io.wefwef.abc:aefwefwefsf:112.0.2')
}
}
no one writes like that
humble silo
I guess that arguement makes sense, but it seems like having something else totally foreign in a new programmers project might cause issues for them
who knows though
old wyvern
Evaluation becomes a requirement to get what it actually declared
And the same script could end up with different dependencies on different runs
quiet depot
this doesn't sound like an issue which would affect a beginner
old wyvern
I wasnt argueing with that point
ocean quartz
You can almost get away with just Java if you want
😌
public class GradleBuild {
@Override
public void repositories(RepositoryManager repositoryManager) {
dependencyManager.maven(maven -> {
maven.add("url");
});
}
@Override
public void dependencies(DependencyManager dependencyManager) {
dependencyManager.add("implementation", "org.something:artifact:version");
}
}
that was chestly
prisma wave
interesting
old wyvern
😌
prisma wave
i never thought of gradle as impure
i guess in that regard it's not entirely declarative?
quiet depot
chestly btw, you argued that you wouldn't know what 'implementation' or 'api' are
but it's not like maven's scopes are any more decipherable
humble silo
this doesn't sound like an issue which would affect a beginner
I feel like that might have affected me as a beginning programmer, but i cant argue for anyone else
quiet depot
I don't even understand what yugi's arguing
quiet depot
oh
old wyvern
The basic summary
ocean quartz
but it's not like maven's scopes are any more decipherable
Isn't the equivalent in Maven compile and runtime? runtime makes no sense compared to api
quiet depot
runtime would be compileOnly
prisma wave
i kinda prefer maven's scopes actually
ocean quartz
No that'd be provided
onyx loom
isnt compileOnly provided?
prisma wave
shade and provided makes much more sense than implementation and compileOnly
ocean quartz
oh boy
old wyvern
Im stuck with the new issue
cinder flare
meanwhile i have no idea what `implementation` or `api` or any of these dependen...
every single dependency you copy paste will have it picked for you
maven does the same thing just uses <provided>
quiet depot
shade is completely meaningless to a beginner
ocean quartz
That's really weird yeah, i thought it was adding repository as well
I'll take a look
quiet depot
I never argued that one build tool had more decipherable scopes
humble silo
Huh, well i feel like using gradle might have messed up my learning proccess as a beginning programmer if i had used it. I have no idea about anyone else though
cinder flare
shade and provided makes much more sense than implementation and compileOnly
hey we got rid of compileOnly okay
quiet depot
scopes from either build tool wouldn't make any sense to a beginner without them reading the docs
old wyvern
projectA implements projectB
projectB uses slimjar
prisma wave
hey we got rid of compileOnly okay
since when?
quiet depot
it's very unlikely they'd be able to infer the meaning from the name alone
cinder flare
scopes from either build tool wouldn't make any sense to a beginner without them...
Scopes from either build tool still barely make sense to me 🙃
cinder flare
since when?
a while, it's implementation and api now
prisma wave
thats different
old wyvern
compileOnly is still a thing
ocean quartz
a while, it's implementation and api now
You're confusing compileOnly with compile
prisma wave
compileOnly specifically means it's provided at runtime
quiet depot
star compile was deprecated
prisma wave
^^
quiet depot
not compileOnly
cinder flare
ahhhhhhhhhhhhh
humble silo
star compile was deprecated
for some reason IJ hasnt been telling me that
ocean quartz
projectA implements projectB
projectB uses slimjar
Hmm, i think i know why that's an issue
humble silo
and i switched over to 7 and had no idea what was going on
old wyvern
ohh what is it?
quiet depot
ij is weird with gradle/groovy
cinder flare
okay i will never speak about build tools again thank you everyone for your 6 replies about my mistake 🙂
quiet depot
maybe that's a reason why it's bad
old wyvern
for some reason IJ hasnt been telling me that
Its deprecated from 6, make sure you're not on an older version
prisma wave
okay i will never speak about build tools again thank you everyone for your 6 re...
you should be sorry
don't let it happen again
onyx loom
okay i will never speak about build tools again thank you everyone for your 6 re...
bullied
ocean quartz
Because it'll apply only to the current project or subprojects, if one is depending on the other it might not know slimjar exists
I'll try fixing it
prisma wave
or else
humble silo
Its deprecated from 6, make sure you're not on an older version
well im on 7 now
old wyvern
ij is weird with gradle/groovy
Actually I have another consistent issue with gradle now that I switched to java 16
old wyvern
No
quiet depot
16 isn't an lts
cinder flare
17 is the next Java LTS
humble silo
ah ok, ill switch over then
quiet depot
which is why I think it's kinda hmm that everyone is suddenly moving
humble silo
then
onyx loom
11 is current
humble silo
right thats what im on
cinder flare
which better come soon cause a lot of distros only have LTS releases in their stupid package managers
ocean quartz
LTS is kinda dumb
old wyvern
Ij keeps using 6.5 gradle version, which fails on initial run, when I update that to use 7.0, it generates the build files and then fails because it generated it with a testCompile
cinder flare
yea it don't make much sense for a language where you can swap with one command
for operating systems I can see it
prisma wave
remember that java is still very much a language marketed at enterprises
and changing version in a business context is often expensive
cinder flare
yeah but even enterprises can run one package manager command
I guess?
You don't see LTS versions of any other language
prisma wave
from what i've heard migrating from java 8 to 9+ in a lot of situtations is actually pretty tricky
cinder flare
Really?
old wyvern
Yea some old libraries had to change some stuff
ocean quartz
from what i've heard migrating from java 8 to 9+ in a lot of situtations is actu...
Jigsaw 😩
prisma wave
in the context of like, a massive monolith application that's been running for the last 6 years
quiet depot
how do you register subprojects in settings.gradle?
cinder flare
they're holding us back
quiet depot
is it include()?
old wyvern
yes
ocean quartz
Yeah
old wyvern
Ij keeps using 6.5 gradle version, which fails on initial run, when I update tha...
. any idea about this piggy?
prisma wave
a lot of startups with a more modern development process probably dont care about LTS
but for big enterprises it's nice to have a guarantee
cinder flare
well maybe big enterprises should spend some money updating their codebase
mmm new garbage collectors
quiet depot
@old wyvern iirc intellij will base the version of gradle it initializes on what you have locally installed
old wyvern
I dont have gradle installed by itself on windows
quiet depot
to fix the testcompile thing just remove that line from your gradle template
prisma wave
well maybe big enterprises should spend some money updating their codebase
from managers' perspective it's a waste of money
quiet depot
try installing it then
old wyvern
to fix the testcompile thing just remove that line from your gradle template
ah alrighty, thanks
cinder flare
gives you better performance
old wyvern
try installing it then
hmm
cinder flare
allows your developers to use better language features
unless you're not actively developing the product
quiet depot
companies don't care
cinder flare
then I can see why you wouldn't want to change
no way companies don't want better performance or better work ability for their devs
quiet depot
"if it aint broke don't fix it" is the motto these enterprise companies seem to live by
prisma wave
^^
cinder flare
unless they're not primarily a software company
old wyvern
Also, gotta head dive into javafx now
They want us to specifcally use Java
Im not usign swing
onyx loom
man why the frick is gradle not replacing my @version@ 😩
prisma wave
Unless you have a very convincing PowerPoint they're not gonna pay to migrate to a newer version
and even then
prisma wave
Even then
cinder flare
mmmm sticking with the times
prisma wave
If it ain't broke
quiet depot
java 8 hit eol years ago didn't it
cinder flare
well hopefully it breaks
old wyvern
lurc
quiet depot
I thought it eol in like 2019
cinder flare
and then they upgrade
ocean quartz
Year 2050, Oracle: "We have extended the LTS support for Java 8 until 2053"
prisma wave
But extended support until 2030 I think
cinder flare
all these boomer companies are holding us back
old wyvern
Java 8 developing the world 😄
cinder flare
they're the reason that graph is what it is
i am just praying that Minecraft has moved the needle a little towards latest releases
old wyvern
dw guys, Java will bite the dust when Elara hits the streets
prisma wave
^^
cinder flare
I mean most sold game ever has to be worth something, right?
prisma wave
All the startups want to use elara
old wyvern
Elara will auto update itself if the users doesnt do it himself 😎
prisma wave
^^
prisma wave
Also there will be no breaking changes ever
old wyvern
😌
cinder flare
yooo 2019
cinder flare
😌
prisma wave
The compiler can automatically migrate code 😌
ocean quartz
Java 11 extended support is only till 2026 while 8 is 2030 lol
cinder flare
mother fucker
onyx loom
😕
prisma wave
elarac --migrate-to elara15 ./ 😌 😌
cinder flare
how come Java upgrades in such large version leaps'
why doesn't it do what like Kotlin or Rust does
ocean quartz
Probably because Oracle
cinder flare
juts small little incremental updates so you can just keep up with the times and fix like one bug every few versions
ocean quartz
Also Java 8 seems to have been the first LTS
onyx loom
HelpChat - owners of Java
prisma wave
helpchat jdk implementation
cinder flare
yeah let's have our own version of Java
prisma wave
Written in elara
old wyvern
@ocean quartz can you send me the snippet you used to use the plugin from the local repo?
I tried but doesnt seem to work now
💀
old wyvern
have you heard of HCJDK
Lets do it!
cinder flare
I mean extendedclip.com already serves compiled Spigot binaries lmao
might as well do Java while we're at it
ocean quartz
It's horrible, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't
buildscript {
repositories {
mavenLocal()
dependencies {
classpath("io.github.slimjar:io.github.slimjar.gradle.plugin:1.1.1")
}
}
}
apply {
plugin("io.github.slimjar")
}
I need to see if i can make it work the way Johnny said, but last i tried it didn't work
gusty glen
wait, mc package is not versioned anymore?
old wyvern
nms
obtuse gale
nope
old wyvern
yea
obtuse gale
now we use official mappings for packages 😌
cinder flare
mmm official mappings
if only they weren't so explicitly copyright forbidden from being used
so you have to convert to non-official mappings for release lol
obtuse gale
that's why reobf plugins exist for, what is now every major modding platform
cinder flare
yea true
still a shame though
if only they just open sourced MC
would solve so many problems
old wyvern
Like their revenue
cinder flare
we can get the source code as easily as if it were open source as it currently stnads
open sourcing would change nothing
prisma wave
is java even selling many copies any more?
old wyvern
I think so
cinder flare
I 100% guarantee you that open sourcing the game would not impact their revenue in any way
prisma wave
bold claim
old wyvern
we can get the source code as easily as if it were open source as it currently s...
The point is its availability to the casual users
cinder flare
you still need to pay to use their online authentication servers??
open sourcing it changes nothing
old wyvern
Offline servers exist
cinder flare
yeah and they already do
old wyvern
ofc
cinder flare
you can decompile and deobfuscate the source code just as easily now as it would be if they open sourced it
old wyvern
Like for every software that ever existed
cinder flare
nothing would change, except they could have PR's
and the community could contribute
Microsoft already does it with plenty of their products and they're having a great time
static zealot
knowing that you can use TAB in Konsole is so nice
lunar cypress
Magit is awesome
lunar cypress
yeah
prisma wave
ok but vim isn't emacs
cinder flare
ok but emacs isn't vim
cinder flare
I bet there's a good plugin for it
prisma wave
i couldnt get any of the plugins working
cinder flare
There's a good plugin for everything in vim
prisma wave
haskell-mode runs perfectly out of the box 😌
cinder flare
im pretty sure vim is more popular than emacs
prisma wave
definitely is
prisma wave
yeah but working out of the box is better than good support 😎
also
evil mode in emacs
best of both worlds
vim keybinds + emacs emacsness
cinder flare
if you use neovim stuff works out of the box
also that does sound intriguing, but i don't really understand what emacs does that's good tbh
prisma wave
i used neovim too
prisma wave
yea couldnt get a lot of the plugins working
anyway im sure this is pebcak
so
i cant judge vim for it
but imo emacs is nicer because
a) uses emacs lisp for configuration
b) doom emacs is really user friendly in my experience, very easy to set up
c) emacs documentation is really nice, you can see all the keyboard shortcuts in the editor itself
vim has the benefit of being everywhere ofc
and lighterweight
lunar cypress
There's a plugin for literally everything in emacs because it's so much easier to make one
It's wild really
prisma wave
yeah i hear vimscript is painful to work with
lunar cypress
I'm not a seasoned Vim user of course but so far the main argument that really wins over emacs is that it (or at least vi) is pre installed on every distro
prisma wave
yeah that's a pretty big plus
lunar cypress
but other than that I've not heard much that'd make me switch
I do want to learn evil though
cinder flare
yeah vimscript sucks I'll admit
prisma wave
emacs lisp 😌
cinder flare
pretty sure nvim has a better lang for it though
prisma wave
(use-package! elcord
:config (elcord-mode))
``` tell me this isn't the hottest thing everokay yeah it is a very elegant use of lisp I'll give you that
ocean quartz
(Very
(nice))
prisma wave
😌
java fans will say ```java
usePackage(Packages.ELCORD, Map.of(
Keys.CONFIG, () -> Elcord.elcordMode()
));
I do like the lambda
prisma wave
i do not
cinder flare
though this is why Kotlin KTS exists
Kotlin KTS for vim when???
though I guess we could support groovy if you want to be spicy
prisma wave
actually should probably be more like ```java
usePackage(Packages.ELCORD, Map.of(
Keys.CONFIG, Elcord::elcordMode
));
"readable"
cinder flare
ew what Java doesn't have ::, does it?
prisma wave
yeah it does
cinder flare
fucking what
prisma wave
pretty much the same semantics as kotlin's
cinder flare
I didn't think Kotlin had it either!
cinder flare
I thought that was a C++ thing
cinder flare
oh it's like how you pass a method
prisma wave
yea
cinder flare
nearly first-class functions?
prisma wave
just a syntax sugar for lambdas
kinda
lambdas are sorta first class already, method references arent much different
cinder flare
really? woahhh
wait what is that generic
is that what it returns then accepts as arguments?
prisma wave
?
oh
other way around
F<T, R> takes T and returns R
T -> R for cultured people
obtuse gale
function<R(T...)> 😌
prisma wave
die
obtuse gale
Naah thanks I'm good
prisma wave
no you're not
obtuse gale
Oh okay
cinder flare
ah yea you right I forgot what TryParse does
static zealot
17 will be lts?
onyx loom
whats new in 17
cinder flare
no those already exist
ocean quartz
Aren't sealed classes already a thin in Java 15+?
cinder flare
yes
quiet depot
maybe so they can remove them later without getting in trouble
oh new rng too
JEP 414: Vector API (Second Incubator)
JEP 412: Foreign Function & Memory API (Incubator)
JEP 411: Deprecate the Security Manager for Removal
JEP 410: Remove the Experimental AOT and JIT Compiler
JEP 409: Sealed Classes
JEP 407: Remove RMI Activation
JEP 406: Pattern Matching for switch (Preview)
JEP 398: Deprecate the Applet API for Removal
JEP 391: macOS/AArch64 Port
JEP 382: New macOS Rendering Pipeline
JEP 356: Enhanced Pseudo-Random Number Generators
prisma wave
Apple ARM as well too
cinder flare
that's... what that is
onyx loom
that moment when eclipse has a nicer splash than ij 
obtuse gale
oh new rng too
VECTOR API
WOOOO
Fast as fuck calculations
And the new rng too 😌 finally more options
prisma wave
By "Vector" does it mean like maths vectors?
obtuse gale
CPU vector instructions
prisma wave
uh
cinder flare
okay so what are those
obtuse gale
AVX?
cinder flare
isn't that the intel expanded instruction set
prisma wave
you overestimate my knowledge of low level shit
cinder flare
i just watch a few videos about it cause I think ASM is cool
but my brain is too smooth to code a lot in Java, let alone ASM
cinder flare
see I was right!
obtuse gale
you overestimate my knowledge of low level shit
Yeah I'm a freak when it comes to that shit
cinder flare
alright that's it
if BM is doing spigot tutorials
emilyy is doing C++/ASM tutorials
ocean quartz
Yeah I'm a freak when it comes to that shit
Kinky
prisma wave
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions
I'm not sure that clears it up much but thanks
Can you eli5
obtuse gale
emilyy is doing C++/ASM tutorials
SOON™️
cinder flare
can I have private tutoring
obtuse gale
Sure
cinder flare
Can you eli5
intel think math too hard, they make easy CPU instruction to do it quick
java let you use that instruction directly now
obtuse gale
Are you familiar with SIMD?
prisma wave
Are you familiar with SIMD?
Absolutely not
obtuse gale
Single Instruction Multiple Data
Process a bunch of things in a single instruction
I'm not sure if AVX or SSE do that though 
Anyway
Fast math
cinder flare
lmao you just brought it up for fun
obtuse gale
Lots and lots of fast math
Very fast math
Okay yeah so AVX allows for SIMD parallel computing
Very fast
That's way too advanced though 🥲
ocean quartz
That's hot
cinder flare
🏎️
obtuse gale
Like 90% of the existing instruction set is made for a compiler to write, not humans
obtuse gale
I learned some x86 and that's it lmao
obtuse gale
see but what if I want to make a compiler
Oh yeah those people are the really smart ones
Seriously smart
obtuse gale
Are you seriously smart?
obtuse gale
🥲
cinder flare
I got a 33 on the ACT first try while being sleep deprived and in the middle of a musical
rotund egret
I got an 18 I think
cinder flare
nice dude
rotund egret
Dropped out of college because learning is hard
rotund egret
Pest control
rotund egret
A very far shot from IT
cinder flare
oh that sounds kinda terrible
rotund egret
Lol, it's not terrible, but it's also not where I want to be
cinder flare
hmmm, a lot of helpdesk near me has openings, have you looked around?
rotund egret
A bit
Not a lot of tech companies hiring a pest technician
cinder flare
I mean I see a lot of helpdesk openings that have no requisite experience required
obtuse gale
I got a 33 on the ACT first try while being sleep deprived and in the middle of ...
What did you get on each of the sub subjects?
cinder flare
36 on English and Reading, 31 on Math, 30 on Science
and like a 4 in Essay writing lmao
luckily it doesn't count towards your score!!
obtuse gale
Ah nice nice, I only did the sat
cinder flare
ah whadja get?
obtuse gale
Just 1170, I was indeed stoned for it as well lol. And never retook
But I scored higher than I thought I would tbh
obtuse gale
There a joke dude
obtuse gale
I’ve never taken them serious lol. Pointless unless you wanna go to Harvard
onyx loom
compared to ours
truly 😔
cinder flare
yeah my score and GPA were enough to get me a full-ride scholarship to the college I wanted to go to so I'm quite happy
obtuse gale
I never once studied for any standard wide tests. And it played well I guess I went to the school I wanted too, dropped early of the next year to pursue other shit
cinder flare
Oh dang what are you up to now?
old wyvern
Building the next Microsoft ofc!
obtuse gale
I work two jobs for different servers, I invest and am starting a cannabis business all in time
obtuse gale
Yea it’s a vibe, I get to chill at home and work. Do whatever I want. Never really busy. I was working in a restaurant before I got my development jobs tho.
And it’s one of the jobs I can actually be high as fuck doing lol.
cinder flare
oh man I worked fast food, not a great time let me tell you
obtuse gale
I believe it, fast food is chaotic.
I tried to stay with local restaurants
There more fun to me and I don’t feel so corporate owned
prisma wave
cinder flare
and I applied for front-of-house, and they made me do back-of-house so I had to do the stupid fryer every time
prisma wave
based kim?
onyx loom
based
cinder flare
https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1403423194992812034?s=19
excuse me sir this is #dev-general
please move to #off-topic -starting-with-K
obtuse gale
excuse me sir this is <#695431668944732270>
exactly!!!
onyx loom
koff-topic
cinder flare
Koff-topic
forest pecan
how tf are you going to use a maven plugin for gradle for the nms shit
cinder flare
capitalization matters
onyx loom
cant have capital text channels 🥲
cinder flare
how tf are you going to use a maven plugin for gradle for the nms shit
Paper bois are making a gradle plugin as we speak
obtuse gale
how tf are you going to use a maven plugin for gradle for the nms shit
you don't, md5 stated he expects the community to make them lmao
onyx loom
(last time i checked anyway)
forest pecan
you don't, md5 stated he expects the community to make them lmao
actually?
cinder flare
oh shit you right
obtuse gale
Paper bois are making a gradle plugin as we speak
also this
old wyvern
Paper bois are making a gradle plugin as we speak
oh? what is it for?
cinder flare
oh? what is it for?
using mojang mappings automajically
forest pecan
smh
old wyvern
ah
old wyvern
so people who use gradle are literally just stalled
no
onyx loom
theyre gonna have fun 🥲
obtuse gale
yeah so we can legally distribute binaries and develop using mojang mappings
forest pecan
Rip
obtuse gale
yeah let me reword that
yeah so we can develop using mojang mappings and legally distribute binaries
cinder flare
yea there it is
obtuse gale
this is the time
ocean quartz
https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1403423194992812034?s=19
Woah there, guy is brave, I can understand wanting a war with the US, but a war against K-Pop stans is like asking to be destroyed
obtuse gale
this is the moment bukkit joins forge and fabric
now we need a plugin for our build tool to build our binaries if we use nms
cinder flare
man imagine the world we'd live in if everyone swapped to fabric
ocean quartz
😌
cinder flare
i think that's actually dante's paradiso
cinder flare
do clients need fabric to play on fabric servers?
forest pecan
md's solution is dog shit
obtuse gale
do clients need fabric to play on fabric servers?
only if they use mods that expect server mods too
ocean quartz
You can actually get really good performance from a fabric server
cinder flare
phosphor, lithium, starlight are all way better than optipoop
obtuse gale
mhm
cinder flare
and the api is lightyears ahead I hear
obtuse gale
phosphor, lithium, starlight are all way better than optipoop
and those work server side too
cinder flare
and those work server side too
I know!**
obtuse gale
and the api is lightyears ahead I hear
you see, there is no api
you just mod the game itself with mixins
fabric is simply a mod loader
the so called "fabric api" is simply just a collection of pre-made events
ocean quartz
Isn't there a mod that makes world generation super fast?
cinder flare
oh so does that make doing stuff NMS-levels of annoying?
obtuse gale
oh so does that make doing stuff NMS-levels of annoying?
you do nms stuff
all you do is nms stuff
you do the modding itself
you don't work on a "mod environment" like bukkit presents to plugins
ocean quartz
In theory bukkit could be a fabric mod
obtuse gale
there have been attempts, incomplete
and they are way better than the forge+bukkit hybrid clusterfucks
cinder flare
but wait isn't the whole point of the bukkit/spigot api to make everything way easier
everyone having to deal with NMS sounds really bad
ocean quartz
I remember implementing a custom pathfinder in bukikt took a while, in forge was a nightmare, took me 15 minutes to do it in fabric
cinder flare
dang okay
actually, survival servers with only like dynmap are prime targets for Fabricification, aren't they
obtuse gale
everyone having to deal with NMS sounds really bad
not really, there are not that many things that are obfuscated, the method and class names make a lot of sense and there are many places it's documented
- mixins 🤤
cinder flare
oh okay so no MD5 to fuck it all up?
ocean quartz
NMS is only bad because spigot didn't use mojang mappings
obtuse gale
yeah yarn mappings are pog
obtuse gale
well they do now right?
not fully
only for package names
not classes and methods etc
ocean quartz
An improvement yeah but not fully i think
obtuse gale
also yarn mappings are more complete than mojang ones
cinder flare
okay and you don't need clients to have fabric for anything that doesn't like actually modify the game right
obtuse gale
eg parameter names, local variables etc
obtuse gale
okay and you don't need clients to have fabric for anything that doesn't like ac...
if you keep it server side, no
onyx loom
yarn mappings to spigot when
cinder flare
cause if so, what I'm hearing is that I could totally convert this private SMP I'm hosting to Fabric and see tons of performance gains
oop discordsrv no fabric
ocean quartz
Yeah you could, some servers already do that
obtuse gale
oop discordsrv no fabric
yeah i asked scarszssz how abstracted the plugin was from the platform
i wanted to make it work lol
sadly it's strongly dependent on bukkit
obtuse gale
you know what does exist?
cinder flare
?
obtuse gale
cinder flare
oh well that's not very useful for a private SMP
ocean quartz
Luck here doing lord's work
obtuse gale
hey, it's a whole permissions API lol
cinder flare
But I'll admit, is very cool
obtuse gale
instead of vanilla's op levels lmao
cinder flare
yeah who tf uses op levels
old wyvern
op levels?
obtuse gale
yeah
old wyvern
Whats that?
ocean quartz
Dumb thing from server.properties that no one uses
old wyvern
oh 1.16 thing?
obtuse gale
4 is like full admin
obtuse gale
oh 1.16 thing?
nah it's been there forever lol
old wyvern
😳
old wyvern
I see
ocean quartz
4 is all permissions, including /stop
3 is moderation
2 is tp and stuff like that
cinder flare
it's been there since like 1.2 I think
obtuse gale
1 /help hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
cinder flare
at least
ocean quartz
It sets to what you put on the server property
obtuse gale
^
old wyvern
ah
obtuse gale
one thing i found reaaaally weird about vanilla though is the components "api"
it's a bit funny but I've learned to use them properly and appreciate it
obtuse gale
adventure on a whole other level lol
but it's in my opinion better than bungee chat api
obtuse gale
yea
old wyvern
Buttttt is it better than writing xml in java???
obtuse gale
lmao
ocean quartz
but it's in my opinion better than bungee chat api
The bar is very low
old wyvern
Guess which library accomplishes that feat
obtuse gale
The bar is very low
xD
obtuse gale
Guess which library accomplishes that feat
uuh.. which? 👀💦
obtuse gale
:huh:
old wyvern
To think whatsapp actually uses this
old wyvern
I mean how hard is it for them to write a serializer to xml xD
cinder flare
very
old wyvern
clearly xD
Theres also this weird scheme of static field requirements that makes its usage in kotlin hell
You need SPECIFICALLY this part to have it even attempt to send this iq packet
Theres not even any notice sometimes
it just doesnt send
ocean quartz
Can't that be a const val? ;o
old wyvern
Doesnt kotlin compiler inline those?
ocean quartz
I think so
old wyvern
This needs to exist as a field
ocean quartz
Yup it gets inlined, insteresting
Actually quite cool to see it on the bytecode
Compared to jvm field
obtuse gale
aren't static final fields like strings inlined?
ocean quartz
Yeah i think so too
obtuse gale
i swear they are
primitives and strings
strings are treated specially to be objects
ocean quartz
That's the reason why Kotlin only allows const for primitives and string
cinder flare
stupid strings
ocean quartz
Kotlin be like "we don't have primitives" also Kotlin "consts need to be primitives!!"
cinder flare
i mean structs would be cool
I guess we have records now
but they're not exactly the same 😦
prisma wave
kotlin bad
meanwhile SMART ghc can decide exactly what is worth inlining because referential transparency 😌