dev-general

[hot hull]

Yea the staff will get flagged for variations of a certain curse word

stuff like F#ck, F**k

etc

[static zealot]

ah I see

I have a chat filter and I just use that regex xD

for each word

[hot hull]

link

so I can laugh

[static zealot]

well techincally I don't have it anymore. Was one of the projects I lost

xD

[hot hull]

kek

[static zealot]

I do have the jar somewhere lmao

[ocean quartz]

Sx had an awesome filter he was working on, let me see if i can find it

[forest pecan]

did Sxtanna leave cause he was too toxic

lol

[hot hull]

Didn't leave willingly :p

[forest pecan]

he got kicked?

or banned?

[hot hull]

What do you think

[ocean quartz]

He was shown the backdoor

[cinder flare]

not even the front door?

yikers

[forest pecan]

please go through by the side door

[cinder flare]

wtf you can't use collection literals in kotlin

how do I make quick array

ArrayOf?

[ocean quartz]

arrayOf

Wdym by collection literals?

[cinder flare]

well I tried to do

val names = ["Jim", "John", "Bill"]

and it told me no collection literals outside of annotations

[ocean quartz]

Ah yeah you'd do listOf or arrayOf

[cinder flare]

well I don't see why you couldn't

besides ol' Andrey

[ocean quartz]

Yup blame Andrey

[cinder flare]

god damnit

now that he's gone how come they don't change a bunch of stuff for the better

collection literals seems like a 100% kotlin thing to do

[prisma wave]

stupid andrey

I hate him

[distant sun]

@ocean quartz can I use mfmessages?

[ocean quartz]

Yeah

[forest pecan]

andrey is russian

[distant sun]

jitpack or?

[compact perch]

There is no time to wait! Ask your question @obtuse gale!

[ocean quartz]

https://repo.mattstudios.me/artifactory/public/
me.mattstudios:mf-msg-adventure:2.0.2

[distant sun]

latest on github is 2.1.0 though

[ocean quartz]

Ah yeah mb it's
me.mattstudios:triumph-msg-adventure:2.2.4-SNAPSHOT for latest

[cinder flare]

lmao

[pale shell]

Is there a way to possibly generate lets say 100 fake players on a dev server to stress test a plugin or is that impossible?

[cinder flare]

yes

[distant sun]

lambdaattack

[cinder flare]

there's a stress tester and I do not remember its name

that's it

[pale shell]

Can I use it as a fake player base on my offline server?

I want to summon a large amount of players so I can fully stress test the plugin to see where and if it breaks.

[hot hull]

LambdaAttack

[pale shell]

Do you need to get accounts or does it do it automaticlly?

[hot hull]

offline server

[pale shell]

Just set the server to offline?

[ocean quartz]

Turn off the server

[pale shell]

Like in properties right

[static zealot]

yup

[pale shell]

ty

https://i.imgur.com/zga38Ig.png say hello to my little buddies

[onyx loom]

nice

[hot hull]

@cinder flare Issue that might be a thing if you have it running on multiple servers is that the words are currently cached, meaning in order for new ones to be added, or their frequency changed, the server needs to restart. Should I add some sort of update runnable or how should I approach this

[pale shell]

it doesn't seem to work for the testing, it says they're not players 😦

[hot hull]

Because they aren't

[pale shell]

Is there a way to test it in a way where the plugin sees them as players?

[distant sun]

https://i.imgur.com/WAkOpJK.png tf is this new icon

[ocean quartz]

From the minecraft plugin, it's because you have adventure on the test dependency (i think)

[distant sun]

Interesting

[pale shell]

Found a perfect plugin for creating fake players if anyone needs it. It works with plugins for debugging etc. https://www.spigotmc.org/resources/fake-players-server-side-bots.91163/

[ocean quartz]

Why not go for the one both Gaby and Frosty suggested?

[pale shell]

It didn't seem to work.

It would create them but they didn't exist to the plugins.

[distant sun]

they do

[pale shell]

not to pmines they dont?

[hot hull]

Because pmines shite

[pale shell]

no

[distant sun]

@ocean quartz <blue><bold>RS</bold></blue> <darkgray>|</darkgray> <white>Pentru a iesi din spawn folositi comanda <blue>/rtp</blue></white> is this ok? xD

[ocean quartz]

No, that's mini message syntax

[distant sun]

whaaat

[pale shell]

I've worked hard re-doing pmines

[hot hull]

Show the code

[pale shell]

?

It's OS.

[ocean quartz]

&b**RS** &8| &fPentru a iesi din spawn folositi comanda &b/rtp

[hot hull]

link it

[pale shell]

https://www.spigotmc.org/resources/private-mines.90890/

[prisma wave]

https://wiki.bristermitten.me/privatemines-source-code

[pale shell]

rly bm

;D

[prisma wave]

Try it

I hardcoded a redirect

[pale shell]

smh

rust

[prisma wave]

Nice

[distant sun]

@ocean quartz does it color the text?

AdventureMessage.create().parse()

[pale shell]

bm on knightzapi why does it say mvn clean install at the bottom? smh.

[ocean quartz]

Yeah

[static zealot]

does spigot not have an option for users to change username?

[hot hull]

it does

[ocean quartz]

You have to donate

[static zealot]

ah

nvm then

what's the amount I need to donate? xd

[distant sun]

"any amount" but basically 10+

[static zealot]

welp nvm it is

[old wyvern]

Why not just make a new account cheif?

[static zealot]

bcz I've got quite a few resources purchased and its not really worth it

for my username

[distant sun]

resources, statistics in case he wants to post premium plugins

[ocean quartz]

Prolly cuz 3 free resources requirement for premium plugins

[old wyvern]

ah lol

Isnt it only like 20 reactions to upload premium?

[old wyvern]

ohh

[static zealot]

ah I won't post premium resources no worries

[old wyvern]

wait what

I never had 3 resources

[static zealot]

I just got over 100$ worth of plugins

[old wyvern]

damn

[ocean quartz]

8 week old account
80 posts + 20 positive ratings
3 free resources
Two-step verification enabled

[old wyvern]

Maybe the requirements changed

[static zealot]

80 posts my ass. I have like 5-10 posts xD

[old wyvern]

I only had 1 resource when i got premium perm

[static zealot]

3 free resources
So this is why a lot of devs have 3 resources free and the rest are paid? xD

[old wyvern]

lmao

[ocean quartz]

Link your spigot Blitz

[old wyvern]

80 posts is easy

[static zealot]

I was literally on someone's resources page and I was lie Why 2 paid 3 not ?

xD

[old wyvern]

go to the spigot plugin dev thread

[hot hull]

I had all those requirements

[old wyvern]

Most of it is stupid questions

[static zealot]

https://www.spigotmc.org/members/blitzgamer88.313675/

[old wyvern]

Zoom through with replies in 10 mins

Easy 20-30 posts

[static zealot]

yeah I guess

[old wyvern]

Or get into an arguement

[prisma wave]

Because it uses maven

[static zealot]

yeah I think its private

[ocean quartz]

Ah

You have 82 posts

[old wyvern]

I really do regret removing free throwswords version tho

had 10k downloads

[static zealot]

oh 82? probably just resource discussions lmao

[ocean quartz]

Yeah it counts

[half harness]

😮 blitz is from Earth

[old wyvern]

Only 11 for the premium

welp

[static zealot]

https://i.imgur.com/e8BdJUJ.png

[old wyvern]

Why is there no combat plugin with armorstands?

[distant sun]

wdym?

[old wyvern]

Like for combat animations

[hot hull]

Because laggggg

[old wyvern]

But still

sounds fun

[steel heart]

wow marker entity

damn thats nice

[distant sun]

Pattern.compile("How do I leave the spawn").matcher("How do I leave the spawn sir").matches() shouldnt this return true?

[old wyvern]

or not nvm

[steel heart]

yeah I think

[old wyvern]

diff arguement

[ocean quartz]

HelpChat on Jetbrains Space wen?

[obtuse gale]

No

Use find()

matches matches the entire string

[distant sun]

wtf

[old wyvern]

Whats that?

[obtuse gale]

find looks for the pattern within the string

[old wyvern]

Slack clone?

[ocean quartz]

Jetbrains Space

[distant sun]

ty

[old wyvern]

Functionality of slack I assume?

Just to internalize more of the dev env, like with youtrack

[steel heart]

d;jdk Matcher#find

[ruby crater]

java.util.regex.Matcher#find

public boolean find()```

Description:

Attempts to find the next subsequence of the input sequence that matches the pattern.

This method starts at the beginning of this matcher's region, or, if a previous invocation of the method was successful and the matcher has not since been reset, at the first character not matched by the previous match.

If the match succeeds then more information can be obtained via the start, end, and group methods.

Returns:

true if, and only if, a subsequence of the input sequence matches this matcher's pattern

Requested by: Abow Conclure • jdk

[steel heart]

😮

[ocean quartz]

Kinda, the chat portion seems kinda bad lmao
It has some cool features it seems

Just decided to try cuz i saw the icon on IJ xD

[distant sun]

@ocean quartz how do I do a click thing?

[old wyvern]

Yea the channels panel looks a bit weird

[old wyvern]

click thing

[ocean quartz]

[message](command: /hey)

The todo is interesting

I guess this would be nice for a big team

[distant sun]

player.sendMessage(response.replaceText(TextReplacementConfig.builder().match("\\{player}").replacement(player.name).build()))
replacement for this?

[old wyvern]

Yea

[distant sun]

response = Component

player.sendMessage(response.replaceText { it.match("\\{player}").replacement(player.name)} ) guess this will work

[onyx loom]

yes please

[prisma wave]

okay well wayland is working perfectly so far

[old wyvern]

Jetbrains slowly taking over the world

[distant sun]

also, can I use collection.firstOrNull in replacement for something like

collection.forEach {
  if (method that returns a boolean) break
}```

[prisma wave]

filter + forEach

[old wyvern]

Unless you wanted a single itme

[ocean quartz]

Kotlin you can just do collection.first { condition }

[distant sun]

well yea

[old wyvern]

first is deprecated I think Matt

[distant sun]

that's kotlin, matt, but first throw an error when no element mat the condition

[prisma wave]

oh yeah

whoops

firstOrNull yeah

[old wyvern]

yea

[distant sun]

java.util.NoSuchElementException: Collection contains no element matching the predicate.

[old wyvern]

firstOrNull

[ocean quartz]

Ah yeah, not deprecated though

Also find

Might be better

[old wyvern]

Oh? I remember someone telling me it was deprecated in tsc

welp

[distant sun]

which calls firstOrNull internally 🤣 @ocean quartz

public inline fun <T> Iterable<T>.find(predicate: (T) -> Boolean): T? {
    return firstOrNull(predicate)
}```

[old wyvern]

lol

[ocean quartz]

I mean it's nicer than firstOrNull directly xD

[distant sun]

yea xd

is there any method to access spigot.yml?

other than File(getDataFolder().getParentFile().getParentFile(), "spigot.yml")

[ocean quartz]

Bukkit.spigot().config() iirc

[distant sun]

spigotConfig, damn

[ocean quartz]

Yeah

[cinder flare]

I seriously love kotlin so much

fun pickTimeBad(): String {
    return when ((0..100).random()) {
        in 0..7 -> "S"
        in 8..14 -> "A"
        in 15..21 -> "B"
        in 22..61 -> "C"
        in 62..91 -> "D"
        in 92..100 -> "F"
        else -> "F"
    }
}```

look at that

[pale shell]

#dev-general message what an amazing message.

[cinder flare]

look at how easy it is to define percentage chances

[pale shell]

complex.

[cinder flare]

com...plex?

that's like, 10x easier to understand than the java implementation would be

[pale shell]

yeah thats complex

why the .. in there

[cinder flare]

those are ranges

[forest pecan]

thats better than java tho lol

its between

[pale shell]

thats cool

[forest pecan]

like 1..7 is 1 to 7

[cinder flare]

if it's between 0 and 7

[forest pecan]

instantly changes mind

[cinder flare]

yea

[forest pecan]

xD

[pale shell]

is that in java?

[forest pecan]

no

kotlin

[cinder flare]

in java you'd have to do like if (chance > 0) && (chance < 10)

[pale shell]

why's java so behind

[cinder flare]

I ask myself that every day man

[forest pecan]

i like how kotlin increases your jar size by a little bit

lol

[cinder flare]

if they would adapt the when statement and a few more functional ideas, they could be so close

[pale shell]

I wonder if Java knows about minecraft 1.12?

[obtuse gale]

Newer versions of Java are pretty damn good though

[forest pecan]

i mean its not behind

[cinder flare]

I mean, nowhere close to Kotlin

[forest pecan]

it just doesnt make sense to use that syntax in java

[cinder flare]

they don't have null operators, they don't have when, they don't have a lot of functional stuff

[forest pecan]

considering how the other shit works

[pale shell]

I wanna learn kotlin but its complex

Like the learning it all

[cinder flare]

https://www.coursera.org/learn/kotlin-for-java-developers/home/welcome

do that

[forest pecan]

lol i didnt take a course xD

i just kinda

[pale shell]

Once you've learnt java its hard to learn kotlin you know

[forest pecan]

jumped in and coded

and it worked?

kinda

[cinder flare]

It's really not that big of a change

[forest pecan]

Yeah

[cinder flare]

the syntax is extremely similar

[pale shell]

you go from over-complexed to nice

[cinder flare]

and things will feel right at home

[forest pecan]

i mean the argument syntax

ss

[cinder flare]

a lot of other langs do the type after the var

even TypeScript and such

[forest pecan]

nah its just the colon

[cinder flare]

what I'm saying is, it's really easy to just write your Java code in Kotlin and have it still work

[prisma wave]

man i was about to say "look how easy that is with haskell cases" and then i remembered randomness needs the IO monad which is anything but simple

[cinder flare]

then you slowly learn more functional paradigms and stuff and it all starts to come together

[pale shell]

bm!!!!

[prisma wave]

bonjour

[pale shell]

hola!!

[cinder flare]

yeah dude bm I was literally so impressed when I found you could do (0..100).random()

[pale shell]

hows your day

[cinder flare]

functional programming showing its benefits!

[prisma wave]

grand

[lunar cypress]

Why does randomness need the IO monad

[prisma wave]

cuz it's impure

actually

[lunar cypress]

yeah but why IO

[cinder flare]

probably to get a seed

[prisma wave]

the only impure bit is generating a seed

uh

[pale shell]

the 10x10 meter island doing well?

[cinder flare]

yes efe

fun pickTimeBad(): String {
    return when ((0..100).random()) {
        in 0..7 -> "S"
        in 8..14 -> "A"
        in 15..21 -> "B"
        in 22..61 -> "C"
        in 62..91 -> "D"
        in 92..100 -> "F"
        else -> "F"
    }
}```

[prisma wave]

idk, i guess it's simpler than defining a new monad just for randomness

[cinder flare]

and everything being an expression is a godsend

you couldn't just return a switch statement in java

[prisma wave]

i have installed arch linux and wayland which is quite nice, and i am now waiting for doom emacs to compile some .el files (😩)

[pale shell]

Just curious would you guys rather be jam packed in a area with lots of Apartments or would you rather have your own personal islands?

[obtuse gale]

You.. can

[forest pecan]

i think its just streams honestly

lol

for that

[cinder flare]

you can??

not that I've ever known

[forest pecan]

and also yeah you can return a switch expression

in java

lmfao

[prisma wave]

expression*

[obtuse gale]

I see you totally ignored my "new versions of Java" comment

[prisma wave]

ty

[pale shell]

you always have to return in switch??

[cinder flare]

oh well new version of java barely matter if nobody uses them

[forest pecan]

nah there is break

[cinder flare]

what's the adoption rate of anything above java 11

I would be interested to know

[pale shell]

same thing

[forest pecan]

there not

[obtuse gale]

Also yeah you can always return in a switch lmfao

[forest pecan]

return and break is not the same thing

[cinder flare]

well yes

[pale shell]

I call kotlin and spigot the same

[cinder flare]

but return before the statement makes so much more sense

[pale shell]

wait what

[distant sun]

well star said "return a switch"

[cinder flare]

functional paradigms just make life so much simpler

[pale shell]

great i sounded real dumb then

[forest pecan]

lmao

[prisma wave]

😩

[forest pecan]

my skin is itchy

after shaving

[pale shell]

why shave

[forest pecan]

i didnt shave my dick

[obtuse gale]

Bet

[forest pecan]

i shaved my facial hair

[pale shell]

I haven't shaved in over a year now

[cinder flare]

like can you do java return switch (potato) { case bean: "Beanny boy"; case bm: "bridget"; case pulse: "no dick shave"; }

in java

[pale shell]

o.O

you can??

[forest pecan]

there are arrows

[obtuse gale]

New switch expressions yes

[forest pecan]

->

[prisma wave]

use -> instead of : and sure

[cinder flare]

oh what version is that in

[prisma wave]

13 i think

[cinder flare]

see

nobody uses 13

[obtuse gale]

15 I believe

[forest pecan]

i use 14

[obtuse gale]

?

[lunar cypress]

it's also in 14, 15, and 16 🙂

[cinder flare]

I'm not allowed to use anything above 8 in my cs classes

[distant sun]

lol

[pale shell]

I use whatever java was installed with my pc

[forest pecan]

i use 8 while coding, 14 for jre

[prisma wave]

no way

[lunar cypress]

and 12 also if you count previews

but they changed break to yield after that

or was it the other way around?

[cinder flare]

woah really

that's cool

[forest pecan]

wait wat they did?

they changed to yield?

[distant sun]

what

[lunar cypress]

only in switch expressions yeah

[obtuse gale]

And Java 16 introduced jpackage or whatever so it kinda doesn't matter what Java version is installed on the target machine if any

[forest pecan]

they introduced record classes

[cinder flare]

woah woah wowah what now

[lunar cypress]

yep, before also with jlink

[forest pecan]

record classes are arguably so damn cool

[lunar cypress]

but jpackage expands on that

[obtuse gale]

It's pretty dope

[cinder flare]

hey wait does each java lang version really change the bytecode that much?

[lunar cypress]

yeah but unfortunately only for standalone apps

[lunar cypress]

no

[cinder flare]

cause surely you could compile a switch expression down to java 8 bytecode right?

[forest pecan]

sealed classes too

[prisma wave]

jabel

[lunar cypress]

each version has a separate major class file version

[prisma wave]

[forest pecan]

sealed classes are insane

[lunar cypress]

and they're baked into the class files

[forest pecan]

public abstract sealed class Shape
    permits Circle, Rectangle {...}

[cinder flare]

well but I mean how come you can't use new stuff in old jvm's?

[forest pecan]

only allows certain class to extend

[cinder flare]

like it all compiles down to bytecode right

[lunar cypress]

Because things change when they do

[cinder flare]

besides their arbitrary enforcement

[forest pecan]

well there are changes

[lunar cypress]

They change the compiler

introduce features

[cinder flare]

well obviously

[lunar cypress]

even though the instruction set doesn't change

[forest pecan]

like the bytecode for the new syntax is going to be different

[cinder flare]

but to the JRE?

[lunar cypress]

yes to the jre too

[cinder flare]

why does the java 8 JRE care if its bytecode was made in JDK 11?

[lunar cypress]

it rarely is

[forest pecan]

also they are adding better nullpointerexception stacktraces

Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NullPointerException:
      Cannot read field "c" because "a.b" is null

[lunar cypress]

because things are used that don't exist in 8

[cinder flare]

well yes but they compile to the same bytecode, no?

[lunar cypress]

like string concatenation is different for example

Yes pepega

but you can still call new classes from that bytecode

[cinder flare]

and the JRE's only job is to interpret bytecode, yes pepega?

[lunar cypress]

No

[cinder flare]

do you at least see what I mean

[lunar cypress]

Where do you think all the standard library classes come from at runtime

[forest pecan]

just force your users to upgrade kek

[cinder flare]

yeah honestly hang on

how come they even do major releases

like I don't know what Kotlin version I have?

[forest pecan]

its not just java/jvm. its even in stuff like linux

[cinder flare]

everything just works

[lunar cypress]

???

[prisma wave]

wtf

[cinder flare]

and you can expect everything running Kotlin to be up to date right

[forest pecan]

what

[prisma wave]

gradle usually handles kotlin

afaik

or intellij

[cinder flare]

Kotlin doesn't have any major releases right?

[forest pecan]

i thought it does?

[cinder flare]

it doesn't matter which version of Kotlin you used to compile something right?

[lunar cypress]

yes it does

[cinder flare]

I mean like

nobody is still on Kotlin 1.2 right

everyone generally updates

so how come people are still on Java 8

[lunar cypress]

Kotlin doesn't control the JRE

[cinder flare]

yeah so perfect!

[lunar cypress]

All they can do is build on existing things

[cinder flare]

surely they could decouple language versions with compiler or whatever versions

and make new features work retroactively

[forest pecan]

int numLetters = switch (day) {
    case MONDAY, FRIDAY, SUNDAY -> 6;
    case TUESDAY                -> 7;
    default                     -> yield day.toString().length();
};

this looks cool

[cinder flare]

if Kotlin can do it, why can't java?

[lunar cypress]

Sure, if you wanna bundle the entire JRE and randomly disallow new features that use certain runtime behaviour

[lunar cypress]

because things change...

[cinder flare]

is that what Kotlin does?

[lunar cypress]

If Kotlin controlled the JRE, they totally would change things as well

[cinder flare]

well yes I know

[lunar cypress]

No

[cinder flare]

exactly

[lunar cypress]

Kotlin is just a library

[cinder flare]

so why can't java the language be?

[lunar cypress]

Because the JVM is supposed to evolve too...

[cinder flare]

well yes I know

but it can evolve independently...

please do not talk down to me

[lunar cypress]

No it cannot

[cinder flare]

surely it can!

[lunar cypress]

no

[cinder flare]

There's no reason why not

[obtuse gale]

"They hated Jesus because he told them the truth"

[lunar cypress]

There are some features that require entirely new behaviour

[cinder flare]

Everything Kotlin has managed to add has worked without that

[lunar cypress]

I'm giving up

[cinder flare]

Kotlin can run on JRE 8, correct?

I don't even see what you're arguing

just that things are how they always will be?

If Kotlin can do it, why can't Java? that's my question

[lunar cypress]

No, that's what you're suggesting lol

[prisma wave]

@lunar cypress do you usually keep emacs open or reopen every time?

[lunar cypress]

I'm saying if you want the JVM to evolve (and you can look at pending OpenJDK projects for examples) you will need new stuff

You want good new features

[prisma wave]

kinda annoying reopening it all the time cuz it doesn't open in the terminal

takes up a new window instead

[onyx loom]

jre 6 🙂

[cinder flare]

Yes and you can still have that. Just for every new feature, backdate it so that it can work on any JRE version

[lunar cypress]

You don't want inefficient workarounds and hacks for the rest of your life

[cinder flare]

Of course not!

the JDK folks have the power to change the JDK as we know it, and they should definitely do that

[lunar cypress]

And sometimes you want features that are literally impossible to realise without breaking changes

[cinder flare]

But I'm 100% certain that any notable feature could work on every version

and then there wouldn't be these generational divides like we have now

where you can't use any new features cause everyone still runs Java 8

[forest pecan]

lol when paper tells people that they are dropping support for java 8

[lunar cypress]

Okay

[forest pecan]

half of the server community are gonna update xD

[lunar cypress]

Project valhalla

project loom

Or if you want to go back in time a bit

lambdas

Tell me how you're gonna do that on Java 8

[oak raft]

paper discord is highly against older versions

[lunar cypress]

(not lambdas)

[cinder flare]

Does Kotlin have it?

[lunar cypress]

no it doesn't

It's jvm features

[forest pecan]

they are

[cinder flare]

okay so besides a few exceptions, 99% of things can be backported

[old wyvern]

I mean if every language were to follow the same trend, what the point in different languages?

[cinder flare]

Switch expressions I guarantee can be backported

[old wyvern]

The thing I like about Java is it seems very streamlined

[lunar cypress]

A few exceptions? Those are the most notable JVM projects right now

[old wyvern]

Boilerplate yes

[cinder flare]

Well okay I'm saying those are good things!

[lunar cypress]

And prior to java 7 Kotlin wouldn't have been able to exist either

because sometimes you just need to evolve lol

[cinder flare]

But I'm saying that a significant amount of the small features they add could be backported, like Kotlin can do

Or maybe we change the release schema so that it's not major versions like we have now that people stay on for years

[old wyvern]

I dont think every language following that model helps

[cinder flare]

Encourage upgrading

[cinder flare]

You're against backporting useful things like switch expressions?

That's not like... a tradeoff

[lunar cypress]

I don't think backporting every new feature will solve any problem, they fucked up planning their release model and that's it

[old wyvern]

Rather they just update their runtime/jdk

[cinder flare]

Very true, very true

[cinder flare]

how many people do that Yugi

I plan on googling percentages as we speak

[old wyvern]

They eventually do

[lunar cypress]

Always thinking backwards is not healthy for a language, but you can blame Oracle for that

[cinder flare]

https://i.imgur.com/8hwIvp8.png

60% of users can't even use java 11 features

[old wyvern]

.

[cinder flare]

this fucking sucks

[lunar cypress]

yugi is talking about other runtimes I'm assuming

[prisma wave]

Java is literally the language for legacy code tho

[onyx loom]

javascript lol

[lunar cypress]

One reason this jvm situation sucks so much is because of licensing and because Oracle messed everything up

[cinder flare]

hmm okay very true

I guess I was just lamenting the loss of new language features

It just seems like nothing ever changes

[old wyvern]

Yea the android sdk lawsuit was just dumb

[cinder flare]

You hear about all these switch expressions and stuff, but I probably won't get to actually use those for years to come

[lunar cypress]

Other languages have those problems too of course, but i'd be willing to bet it's much better for most

[cinder flare]

I mean the only other generational divide I can think of is python 2 vs 3

and maybe php 7 vs 5?

[forest pecan]

ez solution. tell oracle to drop support and add a backdoor to java 8

🤡

[old wyvern]

I mean if they want to use those features, the developers can always use newer jdks

[cinder flare]

What if I want to use those features in Minecraft plugins, which happens to be my main development focus?>

[old wyvern]

Doesnt targeting convert switch expression to be usable java 8 bytecode?

[cinder flare]

What if the boomers in charge are hesitant about new things

[lunar cypress]

no

[old wyvern]

Ah

[onyx loom]

thats what im thinking lol

[old wyvern]

rip

I would have assumed it did

[cinder flare]

like I wish we just removed staying behind on releases

it is so dumb that you even can stay on Java 8

[lunar cypress]

When you use a target version your code is compiled according to the corresponding Java SE spec

[old wyvern]

What happens if your source version is 14 and target is 8?

[lunar cypress]

don't think it works that way

only the other way around

[old wyvern]

Rip

[lunar cypress]

might be wrong

[old wyvern]

Lemme check actually

I always assumed that worked

Even tho I never tried it

[lunar cypress]

If it did it would raise some questions

[cinder flare]

For us, it wasn’t a big surprise to see Java 8 as the dominate programming language. It was surprising, however, to see that only 23% of respondents were using Java 11. We think this has to do with the lack of truly impactful updates to Java since Java 8 and the cost to update the JVM.

I think they're impactful 😭

also isn't there zero cost to updating the JVM like, for anyone?

[forest pecan]

i mean, didn't the gc improve greatly tho?

and performance?

like String#split?

[cinder flare]

i thought so!

[forest pecan]

or smthing

[cinder flare]

new language features are pretty cute too

all those projects Johnny was talking about

[old wyvern]

The old gc was completely removed in either 15 or 16

or one of them atleast

[forest pecan]

Yeah

[old wyvern]

marksweep I think

[forest pecan]

"Java 11 brings additional improvements, which vary across different OptaPlanner examples and data sets. On average, it is 4.5% faster when using Parallel GC and 16.1% faster with G1 GC."

thats for java 11

[cinder flare]

do you think maybe Minecraft servers could be faster if using Java 15 or something?

[old wyvern]

Not by much I think

[distant sun]

Although is suggested to run a higher version of java for 1.13 and above

[cinder flare]

would it be interesting to have a Java 15+ only server, where you redo all the plugins you use to use the new language features lol

[obtuse gale]

Well all stars point to Mojang upgrading the Java version they bundle Minecraft with + the min version it'll run on

Hopefully for 1.17

[distant sun]

java 17 for mc 1.17 and thats it

[obtuse gale]

6 months from now lol

[cinder flare]

yo that'd be hype

[winter iron]

new java version per mc version 🙂

[cinder flare]

you know how nice that would actuall ybe?

[distant sun]

do they release the full update at once? (mobs, items etc and world generation)

[cinder flare]

a minor annoyance to server owners for sure, but sometimes you gotta force people to do stuff

like Apple dropping support for x32

a good change overall

[obtuse gale]

Also @cinder flare look at this awesome website 👀 https://advancedweb.hu/a-categorized-list-of-all-java-and-jvm-features-since-jdk-8-to-16/

[cinder flare]

no it's gonna make me cry

[obtuse gale]

Lmao

[cinder flare]

that I will never get to use them

[arctic juniper]

why are you using java 8?

[obtuse gale]

We aren't

[lunar cypress]

The cost is incredibly high, actually. Couple things that changed after Java 8:

1. Licensing - They changed the licensing model for Oracle JDKs which messed up a lot of companies
2. They randomly decided with Java 9 that now would be a good time to stop distributing/promoting standalone JREs and instead everything should be done and packaged using jigsaw (lol)
3. The biggest Java users are huge corporations, and to them every little tweak in their infrastructure is a huge cost and a risk

[obtuse gale]

Users are

[arctic juniper]

asking star

[cinder flare]

I'm not

server owners are

[arctic juniper]

wat

[obtuse gale]

🤡

[cinder flare]

I won't get to use the new features because I have to compile for java 8 so server owners can use my plugin

[distant sun]

record is equal to kt's data class?

[cinder flare]

did you miss my entire life questioning speech

[obtuse gale]

Yes gaby

[arctic juniper]

didn't kotlin add like @Record

[arctic juniper]

yes

[lunar cypress]

And it comes naturally when nobody else is using Java 8 and Oracle still officially distributes JRE 8 as the latest end user JRE nobody's bothering to go higher

[cinder flare]

besides the third point, surely downloading AdoptOpenJDK 15 cannot be that hard

[distant sun]

I need this -XX:+ShowCodeDetailsInExceptionMessages

[arctic juniper]

well paper 1.17 is gonna require 11

[cinder flare]

well not much changed between 8 -> 11

[onyx loom]

it has data class, i dont see the point in a @Record annotation

[prisma wave]

var

[cinder flare]

at least compared to 11 -> 16

does 8 have var?

[prisma wave]

No

10+

[obtuse gale]

9

[cinder flare]

oh

[obtuse gale]

Oh

[arctic juniper]

probably because it produces different bytecode, might be faster

[prisma wave]

Is it 9?

[obtuse gale]

Yeah 9 was in incubation

Or whatever

[prisma wave]

Ah right

[distant sun]

holy shit, thanks for that site @obtuse gale

[obtuse gale]

lol

[distant sun]

never thought about googling that tbh

[obtuse gale]

idek how I came across it

[arctic juniper]

records are pretty much kt data classes with immutable fields

[distant sun]

Map.of("one", 1, "two", 2); mhm

[arctic juniper]

but they might be faster

if (obj instanceof String s && s.length() > 5)what

what about inside the if block

can you use it as if it was a string?

[lunar cypress]

yes

s is accessible inside

[arctic juniper]

oh nice, so like kotlin smart casting

[lunar cypress]

not quite

[distant sun]

like

[lunar cypress]

It serves a similar purpose but works a bit different

[old wyvern]

yo

https://docs.oracle.com/en/java/javase/14/docs/specs/man/jpackage.html

[lunar cypress]

Not just a bit actually

[old wyvern]

Didnt know oracle provided a solution for that themselves

[distant sun]

yield this looks weird imo

[old wyvern]

Thats the same in kotlin sequences tho

[arctic juniper]

how come?

[prisma wave]

😖

[arctic juniper]

it's a common keyword

[lunar cypress]

not pinging me and expecting me to see 🥲

define reopen every time

[cinder flare]

instead, go vim ./filename

[old wyvern]

ghcid

[distant sun]

module hu.advancedweb.helloworld {
    requires hu.advancedweb.somedependency;
    exports hu.advancedweb.hello
}```
whats this though

[arctic juniper]

jigsaw

[prisma wave]

I did ping 🙂

[old wyvern]

The new module system

[tranquil crane]

sudo apt-get purge vim

[prisma wave]

well apparently Emacs "is" better

[lunar cypress]

lmao the fact that you don't know is a good indicator how well this idea worked

[old wyvern]

"better and secure" applications

[prisma wave]

haskell has had this since 1998

[distant sun]

I dont get it 🤣

is it smth like maven / gradle?

[lunar cypress]

Barely anyone seems to know about jigsaw

Maybe they've heard about it

[jovial warren]

and cursed Krypton returns lol

[arctic juniper]

how dare you

what's cursed about that?

[jovial warren]

wdym?

[onyx loom]

yeah that module system is just a whole mess, just remove it entirely

[tranquil crane]

we didn't need that chunk anyway

[prisma wave]

hey I've tried vim, seems reasonable to try Emacs too

[jovial warren]

lemme show you lol

[arctic juniper]

it's just an unloaded or empty chunk

[prisma wave]

Emacs definitely looks nicer imo

[jovial warren]

that's not what's caused this

[old wyvern]

😌

[arctic juniper]

vim would look nice if you took the time to configure it

[jovial warren]

I placed upwards more than a single section, relog, and it completely breaks

anyone wanna come and see this on the test server? lol

[lavish notch]

@jovial warren When are you making Krypton for 1.6.3?

[prisma wave]

I've got a pretty similar theme on each but I'm sure, Emacs just looks nicer out of the box

[jovial warren]

lol

[cinder flare]

ah mackenzie showing up after his "20 minute" thing 4 hours later 😉

[jovial warren]

remind me at my funeral

[arctic juniper]

did you just change the theme and compare them?

[lunar cypress]

Emacs looks pretty shite out of the box, doom makes a couple default adjustments that already look decent

[jovial warren]

anyone up for hopping on the test server and seeing some actually cursed shit?

[lavish notch]

Yes

What game version?

[arctic juniper]

1.18

[distant sun]

krypton-1.16.5

[arctic juniper]

krypton?

[distant sun]

paypal.me/gabytm

[jovial warren]

Krypton-0.18.2 lol

[prisma wave]

Yeah I'm using doom, looks good

[lavish notch]

What the-

[jovial warren]

ah, to think that all this time you thought this was just some Mojang made Minecraft server

[lavish notch]

This just showed up in my recommended on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOlJ_jCLHmo&ab_channel=ThatLook

[jovial warren]

this has 0 Mojang code in it (other than the odd parts I kinda copied and converted to Kotlin lol)

[arctic juniper]

all this time?

it's been 5 minutes

[lunar cypress]

remember the best part: ~/.doom.d/init.el

[jovial warren]

right, test.kryptonmc.org, 1.16.5

or maybe not

[arctic juniper]

I wonder if you can use your terminal as an x client

[prisma wave]

what's that lol

[jovial warren]

actually maybe yes

[lunar cypress]

bardy has the ecstatic experience of telling someone about krypton for the first time

[arctic juniper]

a lot of terminals support showing images nowadays

[prisma wave]

Imagine not using wayland

[arctic juniper]

wayland is complete shit right now

[jovial warren]

lol

[prisma wave]

i have been using it for 3 hours and I can confirm it works fine

[jovial warren]

Krypton is a Minecraft server written from scratch in Kotlin

[old wyvern]

Bad

[arctic juniper]

most of my applications would just use xwayland, which defeats the whole purpose of using wayland

[old wyvern]

Thanks

[jovial warren]

https://tenor.com/xDjW.gif

[arctic juniper]

why kotlin though?

[lavish notch]

scratch - drag, and drop

[static zealot]

bcz Kotlin good

[arctic juniper]

there are tons of servers written in java already

[prisma wave]

What apps? So far the only thing I've needed XWayland for is discord

[cinder flare]

yeah

[static zealot]

yeah that's the point

[cinder flare]

exactly why you need variety

[prisma wave]

and possibly Spotify

[static zealot]

its meant to be different

[arctic juniper]

kotlin isn't really variety

[cinder flare]

don't want more of the same

I mean it is quite a bit nicer than Java to work with

[arctic juniper]

runs on the same vm, is a bit slower

[prisma wave]

Are you familiar with Haskell

[arctic juniper]

I've used it a few times, definitely not for me

[cinder flare]

is a bit slower? is it?

[arctic juniper]

a tad, yeah

maybe not now, but it was before

[cinder flare]

it's certainly nicer to work with

[prisma wave]

I despise you with a passion

[cinder flare]

so that's worth its weight in gold

[lunar cypress]

The JVM is decently fast for long running server apps

[cinder flare]

plus Bardy has an absolutely massive brain and he can optimize a lot better than the vanilla server

[lunar cypress]

It's actually pretty damn fast for such purposes

[arctic juniper]

pfft stealing my clock cycles, I'll just write everything in c

[prisma wave]

Ok attempt 2

Are you familiar with Rust

[arctic juniper]

yes

[cinder flare]

haha

[prisma wave]

thank god

It's no Haskell but better than nothing

[jovial warren]

not true

1. it has 3 variants

2. it's actually faster in quite a few cases, especially with inlining

[prisma wave]

And which of those variants are you using

[jovial warren]

fair

[arctic juniper]

kotlin native is too young for basically anything

[lunar cypress]

If you want to compete with the JVM for apps like this, you need to put in tons more effort and the JVM difference won't be worth it

[arctic juniper]

and kotlin js is uh

yes

[lunar cypress]

memory usage will be better, but the JVM can approach native speed in the right environment

[ocean quartz]

Kotlin?

[prisma wave]

pragmatic and modern

[cinder flare]

yea

[arctic juniper]

it's a bit slower, but it's worth the switch

[jovial warren]

https://tenor.com/blhmP.gif

[ocean quartz]

Not really, it's basically the same, some things will be slower some will be faster

[cinder flare]

that's what I thought yeah

[prisma wave]

Golang tho

[cinder flare]

I mean it all compiles to JVM bytecode anyways

[old wyvern]

😌

[arctic juniper]

I do have to tell you I don't really like its memory model

[cinder flare]

thats like... the whole point?

no allocating memory yourself and no garbage collector

[prisma wave]

😩 🥴 😖 😫 🤨

[old wyvern]

Setting up cross compile on windows seems annoying with go tho

[jovial warren]

also, why Kotlin? 1. that's what BM originally wrote this in, 2. it's my favourite programming language and the one I'm most comfortable in, and 3. why not lol

[old wyvern]

I just ended up isntalling go and compiling at use site

[arctic juniper]

I like either allocating it myself or using a gc

[cinder flare]

fucking what

[prisma wave]

☹️ 😮 🤓 🤬 🤮

[lavish notch]

@jovial warren read ingame chat

[cinder flare]

this from the guy complaining about Kotlin being slow??

[arctic juniper]

what about it?

[prisma wave]

❓ 🙄

[old wyvern]

https://tenor.com/view/fat-boohoo-cry-baby-gif-10647085

[arctic juniper]

man wtf

[prisma wave]

fast and good

[arctic juniper]

yes

[lunar cypress]

Bardy you don't understand. Do you want to be a 0.1xer? You need to rewrite everything in assembly to prove yourself

[arctic juniper]

agreed

[cinder flare]

nah he doesn't like working with type safety

[old wyvern]

😌

[prisma wave]

When is Krypton gonna use blockchain

[jovial warren]

https://tenor.com/FXgY.gif

[oblique heath]

NFT items

[old wyvern]

Please solder a circuit board for krypton

[cinder flare]

dude he can't even get chunks to load properly using Kotlin, do not let him near ASM

[oblique heath]

for krypton

when

[old wyvern]

Just connect via usb

[lunar cypress]

Will someone mention the NFT pointer rust library now? Because if not I totally will

[arctic juniper]

anyone written a server in asm?

it's just fds after all

[cinder flare]

bro nobody's ever written a full minecraft server in any other language than java

[lunar cypress]

ok hold on it's a c++ library mostly written in rust

[ocean quartz]

Rust server wen

[cinder flare]

I don't think they've written one in ASM lol

[lunar cypress]

https://github.com/zhuowei/nft_ptr

[arctic juniper]

feather

[prisma wave]

ffs

[jovial warren]

the only full Minecraft server that exists at the moment is vanilla

[old wyvern]

There seems to be a kind-of client clone attempt in assembly

https://github.com/Overv/MineAssemble

[prisma wave]

tetanus

[cinder flare]

that is what I meant but im tired

[ocean quartz]

Nice

[prisma wave]

why do these people hate themselves

[old wyvern]

Theres a few in c++ and c#

[old wyvern]

🥲

[cinder flare]

not a full server

[jovial warren]

I've been working on this project for just over 2 months now I think

[cinder flare]

there's many attempts

[old wyvern]

Cuberite works fully right?

[arctic juniper]

full with all the bugs?

[old wyvern]

not uptodate

[sturdy swan]

Why would anyone want to do this? do they hate themself or smthn?

[cinder flare]

it doesn't implement every feature of the vanilla server afaik

[lunar cypress]

not anywhere near drop in vanilla replacement

[old wyvern]

but works for intended version

[arctic juniper]

it's fun

[old wyvern]

masochism

[jovial warren]

also, Mojang has an entire team of developers that they pay, no other community project has that

[prisma wave]

oh shoot i haven't mentioned a functional language in a while
clojure server when?

[arctic juniper]

screw clojure

[old wyvern]

😌

[old wyvern]

!!!!

[prisma wave]

burn in hell

[cinder flare]

they do? how come server optimizatin is so bad then hmm

[lunar cypress]

wanna meet up and talk?

[old wyvern]

xD

[ocean quartz]

Oh boy, this dude wants war in here

[onyx loom]

hasnt this already been done or am i tripping?

[arctic juniper]

pfft, so much about rule 1

[old wyvern]

Boy boutta get slayed

[prisma wave]

dont think so

[lunar cypress]

lol following rules

[prisma wave]

i make the rules here

[jovial warren]

just because they have a full team of paid developers doesn't mean those developers give a fuck about making it work well

[surreal quarry]

Rules don't apply when clojure is the subject

[prisma wave]

^^

[surreal quarry]

Everyone knows this

[old wyvern]

The Monad speaks the rules

[cinder flare]

lol

[old wyvern]

= your ass

[cinder flare]

the monad is the rules

[oblique heath]

hypixel does 🥲

[old wyvern]

😌

[oblique heath]

but it's all private

[cinder flare]

and see how fucking good Hypixel is lol

[jovial warren]

Hypixel doesn't have their own server from scratch

[cinder flare]

you don't know

[jovial warren]

I refuse to believe that for one second

[cinder flare]

they might

[lunar cypress]

Clojure isn't even a particularly widely liked language here by any measure so I'm surprised by the reaction tbh lol

[cinder flare]

bro Bardy you're like, halfway there and you're one guy

[ocean quartz]

I mean i don't see that as being disrespectful lok

[static zealot]

but they don't

[jovial warren]

log on and look at the brand

[jovial warren]

"halfway"

[cinder flare]

Imagine a team of people getting paid to do that

[static zealot]

"half way there"

smh

this project is very small then

[cinder flare]

is that over or under

[static zealot]

lmao

[arctic juniper]

this is a functional language circlejerk

[prisma wave]

come down to the ivory tower, ask for rich hickey, i'll come out my tower and i'll break your FUCKING LEGS!

[jovial warren]

use your brain

[lavish notch]

Time to make minecraft server written in Scratch.

[old wyvern]

Its a severely modified spigot variant is what someone said here earlier

[static zealot]

yeah it is

[old wyvern]

1.8.9 or something

[lunar cypress]

wow really

[cinder flare]

I mean it might not be

[ocean quartz]

Welcome to dev general

[prisma wave]

you got a problem with that?

[cinder flare]

you don't work at hypickle

[old wyvern]

Wouldn't have known

[surreal quarry]

lmao he just got replied to 5 times

[arctic juniper]

...

[lavish notch]

java -Xmx96GB -jar DS-1.7.10.jar

[old wyvern]

Haskell is king

[prisma wave]

anyone here heard of haskell? it doesn't get talked about much here

[ocean quartz]

Dw though in a few months the circkjerk will be something else

[old wyvern]

YES!!!

[prisma wave]

doubt

[old wyvern]

^

[cinder flare]

yeah I really don't think so

[old wyvern]

Haskell shall prevail

[prisma wave]

always

[arctic juniper]

since so many of you are here, can I actually ask a question related to development?

[cinder flare]

functional paradigms bring so much to programming it's kind of insane

[prisma wave]

of course

[old wyvern]

https://tenor.com/view/half-life-hecu-opposing-force-lambda-hecu-team-gif-20834170

[cinder flare]

#development

[onyx loom]

when elara gets done thatll be the next circlejerk, soo 2030 🥲

[surreal quarry]

thats what we are here for 🌚

[prisma wave]

@arctic juniper #dev-general message thoughts?

[surreal quarry]

to 100% seriously answer questions

that you may have

[arctic juniper]

what's the difference

[old wyvern]

😌

[cinder flare]

you ask for help in that channel

[lunar cypress]

this is offtopic

[cinder flare]

you meme about functional languages in this channel

[prisma wave]

meme?

what??

[arctic juniper]

ah

[old wyvern]

!!!!

[surreal quarry]

#development is for support
#dev-general is for circle jerk
#developer-chat is for cool people

[ocean quartz]

There has been, Kotlin, elara, clojure, go, rust, haskell is the newest

[prisma wave]

we're not joking

[old wyvern]

Do you want to face the jury star???

[prisma wave]

rust and go had a very short phase

[ocean quartz]

True

[cinder flare]

I mean 90% of those are functional

[prisma wave]

theyve been lurking in in the background

[prisma wave]

should be 100%

[cinder flare]

your history man, not mine

[lunar cypress]

Clojure too considering only like 3 people even knew anything about the language or tried to get into it

[oblique heath]

i've heard of it once or twice 🙂

[surreal quarry]

elara v1.4.31 when

[lunar cypress]

And let's not talk about rust

[prisma wave]

clojure functionalpilled me

[lunar cypress]

Nobody here truly knows rust lmao

[arctic juniper]

I just realized I didn't read the documentation thoroughly and got my answer now

[prisma wave]

nobody truly knows rust

[arctic juniper]

nobody truly knows anything

knowing is just a bunch of connected neurons going zap

[prisma wave]

speak for yourself

[onyx loom]

^

[arctic juniper]

you can easily stop knowing by stopping blood flow

[prisma wave]

okay

[ocean quartz]

Neurons going zap, can't relate

[prisma wave]

^^ average non-haskell user

[jovial warren]

what's knowing

[obtuse gale]

Oh no

[arctic juniper]

I defined knowing

[obtuse gale]

Fuck

No

[arctic juniper]

you should read more

[obtuse gale]

Nonoostop

Sroock

[jovial warren]

what

[onyx loom]

deja vu 🌚

[obtuse gale]

Don't get your philosophical debates in here again

[arctic juniper]

lmfao

[ocean quartz]

Dkim is that you

[obtuse gale]

What's a number

[onyx loom]

whats philosophical

[arctic juniper]

a number is like

3

[obtuse gale]

Fomsncksbfk

[prisma wave]

a number is a function

[jovial warren]

https://tenor.com/uhfw.gif

[obtuse gale]

Yeah but they don't exist

The sky doesn't exist

[prisma wave]

uh oh

this sounds familiar

[onyx loom]

only if u define sky !!!

[arctic juniper]

what's the definition of the sky?

[obtuse gale]

NOOO

[jovial warren]

you can change the colour of the sky by changing its definition as a word

[onyx loom]

what is a definition !!!

HAHAHHA

[prisma wave]

let sky = Sky()

[jovial warren]

https://tenor.com/GwPo.gif

[arctic juniper]

the region of the atmosphere and outer space seen from the earth.

[lavish notch]

Krypton is

[arctic juniper]

well that makes too much sense

[jovial warren]

you can change the words in that sentence and change the sky

https://tenor.com/GwPo.gif

[prisma wave]

reddit uses upvotes
helpchat uses 🥲 reactions

[arctic juniper]

is it possible to like have a rest api that you can send a request to and it'd give you a generated chunk back

[onyx loom]

yes

[prisma wave]

that was the worst thing i have ever said

[jovial warren]

facts

[onyx loom]

the hierarchy of helpchat

[jovial warren]

lol

[arctic juniper]

imagine

chunk generation as a service

[prisma wave]

dont tell microsoft