dev-general

[pale shell]

It will go back up where it belongs.

[onyx loom]

interesting.

[prisma wave]

I am sure they won't tear it down again

[onyx loom]

no not at all

[half harness]

POGG

[onyx loom]

thanks dkim

[half harness]

you're welcome

[prisma wave]

thanks dkim

[pale shell]

It's been there for over 200 years, spooky how 1 protest over something illegal causes it to get pulled down

[half harness]

np

[cinder flare]

Odin you sound like a dogmatist

[onyx loom]

hmmm yes i really do wonder why

[pale shell]

A what?

[half harness]

got hackusated

[obtuse gale]

Ah yes because the longer it stays the more of a reason it shouldn't be taken down due to slave trade

[cinder flare]

spooky how times are a changing and people don't like commemorating racist people in statues?

sorry the kkk isn't cool anymore odin lol

[onyx loom]

sLaVe TrAdE iS An iMpOrTaNt PaRt oF HiStOrY

[pale shell]

Well, it had no problem being there until a certain event.

[cinder flare]

uh

I think it did

[onyx loom]

that does not mean its ok

[obtuse gale]

That is not a valid reason for it to stay...

[pale shell]

Never said they were good. They were never a good thing

[cinder flare]

there just wasn't a group of people ready to tear it down yet

[pale shell]

We're paying for it to be repaired so.

[cinder flare]

That's a mistake lmao

[prisma wave]

I am sure there is an inspirational heath ledger joker quote that will help here

[obtuse gale]

#dev-general message

[cinder flare]

they even renamed his Hall lmao

[pale shell]

It's going in a museum.

We still call it the original name

[obtuse gale]

Museum of slavery and human trafficking?

[cinder flare]

Since at least the 1990s, with increasing recognition of Colston's role in the slave trade, there has been growing criticism of his commemoration.

[onyx loom]

lol

[cinder flare]

I think people had a problem with him before they toppled his statue lol

[oblique heath]

😎

[prisma wave]

thanks ivan

[oblique heath]

i'm glad to be of service

[half harness]

-_-

[pale shell]

They could've made a poll about getting it put into a museum? It'd be better there.

[prisma wave]

ah so now we're getting somewhere productive

[cinder flare]

why would they put the hall in a museum

it's still in use

[pale shell]

Instead of straight up illegally pulling it down, they couldve spoken to the people and put it in the museum

[cinder flare]

or the statue

hmmm

I mean, that's what happens when there are lots of problems with your society

shit doesn't get changed until finally something breaks the camels back and a lot changes

[pale shell]

So they can put something up saying how the things he did affected people and how we've learnt from it?

[prisma wave]

hmm you do actually raise something of an interesting point

[cinder flare]

so Odin, you understand that this guy was no good, you just disagree about the methods of change?

[pale shell]

Yes

[prisma wave]

seems reasonable

[cinder flare]

hmmm

[half harness]

NOOOOOOOOOOOO_ _ _ _

[onyx loom]

oh no

said literally nobody

[half harness]

why does it say 36

bad

hypixel doesn't like me

[oblique heath]

don't worry dkim you can borrow my photoshopped winstreak

so you can keep flexing

[prisma wave]

dkim I dont wanna be mean but who asked

[pale shell]

Now I know what he did, I understand why they wanted it gone but I would've preferred if they done a petition or something to get it moved to a museum saying about what he brought to the city and what he did wrong at the same time if that makes any sense?

[cinder flare]

An effort began in 2018 to reword the plaque to include details on Colston's role in the slave trade, however a new wording was not agreed upon.

[obtuse gale]

Dkim please #off-topic, we are having a very important conversation about development, NOT configuration help

[cinder flare]

Sounds like they tried to do that lol

[prisma wave]

That's fair

[cinder flare]

Just got stuck in red tape or something

[pale shell]

They never asked the public, they do everything behind closed doors

[onyx loom]

im not too sure the government would care of such a petition especially in such circumstances

[pale shell]

Our council is a joke

[obtuse gale]

Why do I feel you'd have a completely different point of view if you were from afro-american descendance...

[cinder flare]

So the public finally decided to act

I see why it happened

[pale shell]

Yes

[prisma wave]

Classic beuracracy

bro how do you spell it

Beuaorcracy

[cinder flare]

classic spelling 😬

[onyx loom]

yes yes very intriguing indeed

[prisma wave]

beaureaucrasy

[oblique heath]

bureaureaureaucracy

[prisma wave]

bruh it doesn't even come up on autocorrect

[oblique heath]

it comes up but it stays red afterwards

[pale shell]

We've pulled it out of the docks where they put the statue and then put it into a museum storage if that makes any sense?

[oblique heath]

for me at least

[onyx loom]

spelling so bad not even autocorrect can fix that

[prisma wave]

Beauracracy

ditjeodjfjfk

[cinder flare]

well yeah I read that one

[prisma wave]

Wank stain of a word

[cinder flare]

bureaucracy

[prisma wave]

cheers

[cinder flare]

okay now that is funny

[pale shell]

This is what my city put on Google maps

[prisma wave]

that is hilarious

[pale shell]

That's not even photoshopped it was actually added

[cinder flare]

I love that

[pale shell]

It's been removed :(

[prisma wave]

classic bureaucracy

😎

[onyx loom]

bm did u ever have to do weekly spelling tests in primary school or smth

and u had to write down the word like 10 times

[prisma wave]

ofc

omg

i forgot about that

[onyx loom]

someone is revisiting their year 2 class rn 🙂

[prisma wave]

lmao

[onyx loom]

congrats im so proud of u

[cinder flare]

bro that was like 4th grade

[prisma wave]

"grade" 🤢

[pale shell]

Did anyone else do a maths sheet with a list of 100 times tables things and first person to finish gets a crunchie bar??

[onyx loom]

"grade" 🤢

[prisma wave]

you guys are getting crunchie bars?

[pale shell]

YEA

Every Friday he used to do it

[onyx loom]

tf

[cinder flare]

we got a kitkat

[prisma wave]

we got nothing 🥲

[pale shell]

He'd create a sheet with 100 times tables thing, first person to finish with all correct got a crunchie bar

[onyx loom]

same 😩

[prisma wave]

jeez

[pale shell]

A double crunchie bar btw

[prisma wave]

tory school

[pale shell]

?

[onyx loom]

LMAO

[cinder flare]

Superintendent Andy Bennett of Avon and Somerset Police stated that they had made a "tactical decision" not to intervene and had allowed the statue to be toppled, citing a concern that stopping the act could have led to further violence and a riot. 👀

[pale shell]

What's that

[onyx loom]

big BJ paid for the crunchie bar himself 🥰

[pale shell]

I don't trust politics so I don't follow or understand it

[prisma wave]

what a kind guy

[onyx loom]

tory = conservative

[cinder flare]

that's not political lol

[pale shell]

Oh

[cinder flare]

oh what he said

[prisma wave]

well you see group A = good and group B = bad

[oblique heath]

no

group A is bad

[pale shell]

Boris is good

[prisma wave]

stfu I hope you die

[cinder flare]

he's the UK trump!

[pale shell]

I only know boris is good

[onyx loom]

which is group A and which is group B

[oblique heath]

group A are evil

[pale shell]

Trump was amazing

[cinder flare]

👀

[onyx loom]

confusion

[cinder flare]

okay I know where Odin stands

[onyx loom]

"Trump was amazing" should never be a sentence constructed

[pale shell]

I didn't follow him on a politics point I only liked him as a person

[cinder flare]

that's even worse

[prisma wave]

when the guy that doesn't follow politics gets an opinion 🥶

[pale shell]

Politics is a waste of time

[onyx loom]

lol

[cinder flare]

he was a worse person than a politician lol

[prisma wave]

@serene cave can you confirm

[pale shell]

He did a good job

[obtuse gale]

Says who.... omg look at yourself LMAO

[onyx loom]

did he?

[cinder flare]

did he?

[pale shell]

Yes

[onyx loom]

what did he do

[cinder flare]

fokin brit tryin'a have an opinion

[pale shell]

He put up a wall

[prisma wave]

lmao

[cinder flare]

oh boy

hey wait is Odin trolling us

[onyx loom]

no this is an outlier here

[obtuse gale]

Yeah okay I'm convinced he's actually racist

[pale shell]

I'm not trolling

[prisma wave]

nah fr what did trump actually do

he didn't do anything

[pale shell]

He did a lot of stuff bm

[cinder flare]

yeah that's why I said he was a worse person than politician lol

[prisma wave]

he killed that iranian guy

And that's it

[onyx loom]

LOL

[cinder flare]

i mean he didn't personally do that

[pale shell]

He didn't

[prisma wave]

you have no proof

[cinder flare]

haha

imagine him running out in a field in iran

[onyx loom]

hed be out of breath 🥲

[prisma wave]

🥲

oh and he bought mcdonalds that 1 time

[ocean quartz]

Are we talking about Andrey again?

[onyx loom]

thats it

trump was in it for the memes

[pale shell]

Why are all American presidents so old

[onyx loom]

why are all uk prime ministers old?

[pale shell]

They're not

[cinder flare]

cause boomers vote the most

[pale shell]

Boris is like 40

[cinder flare]

oh shit wait

[pale shell]

And doing a good job

[cinder flare]

Odin is a boomer guys remember

[cinder flare]

no wonder he's racist

[pale shell]

He's 56?!?!

[prisma wave]

close enough 🥲

[onyx loom]

idk about u but he looks 70 to me

[pale shell]

Boris is doing such a good job during these times

[onyx loom]

is he?

[pale shell]

Yes...

Could you do his job?

[onyx loom]

is he thO?

[prisma wave]

how so

[prisma wave]

yeah easily

[ocean quartz]

What do you mean? He looks like a kid to me

[cinder flare]

okay see im gonna not pull an Odin and not have an opinion in another countires politics lol

[onyx loom]

good job

[pale shell]

That's Boris he's an amazing guy

[ocean quartz]

Haha

[pale shell]

79 million recovered

[prisma wave]

so amazing he doesn't know how many kids he has

[ocean quartz]

Didn't know you were also a comedian

[onyx loom]

worldwide

[cinder flare]

i like how he says bloo

[prisma wave]

all thanks to boris?

[lavish notch]

Worldwide

[pale shell]

No that's uk..

[onyx loom]

sir

[prisma wave]

UK population is 65 million lmao

[onyx loom]

ima have to ask u to look at the image again

[cinder flare]

https://i.imgur.com/sgUtf6w.png

[pale shell]

It is?

[obtuse gale]

Hahaha

[ocean quartz]

Lmao

[prisma wave]

ah 66

[lavish notch]

.65

[prisma wave]

😫

[obtuse gale]

(2019)

[onyx loom]

on the contrary (sure abit different in terms of population + density, but still handled covid decently)

[pale shell]

Star French? 🤔

[cinder flare]

what lol

[obtuse gale]

All thanks to Boris 🌚

[onyx loom]

yes boris johnson good pm 👍

[pale shell]

It said France above

[prisma wave]

boris did a really good job in australia

[cinder flare]

for comparison surely

[ocean quartz]

This one is the best one

[prisma wave]

good old bozza

[onyx loom]

australia was first that came to mind

but yeah NZ smashed it

[prisma wave]

Greenland

[cinder flare]

101 people vanished? 👀

[ocean quartz]

They had 0 new cases today

[onyx loom]

i dont think nz has for a while

[ocean quartz]

Still recovering noob

[cinder flare]

ah that makes sense

[onyx loom]

i know australia hasnt had a case in over a month afaik

[pale shell]

Yeah, new Zealand has the UK flag in the corner so.... We got the same stats.... 💁‍♀️

[cinder flare]

lmao

[prisma wave]

that's a take and a half

[cinder flare]

(.65)

[pale shell]

That's the fastest I've seen reactions been added

[prisma wave]

Poor discord

[onyx loom]

what is this discord server

2am be like

[ocean quartz]

Poor Barry

[prisma wave]

odin handing out free xp

[pale shell]

Who wants free xp?

This world would be far better without politics.

[onyx loom]

btw 🥲

[obtuse gale]

No politics = no xp

So no

[prisma wave]

Population: 822

[ocean quartz]

Never heard of that lmao

[onyx loom]

good

guernsey bad

[pale shell]

Politics is a waste of time so

[onyx loom]

nah its a channel island

[cinder flare]

but who are you gonna write petitions to???

[pale shell]

Bm

[ocean quartz]

In other hand

[onyx loom]

🥲

😬

[pale shell]

Ok, I'll find of another thing to cause xp

[ocean quartz]

The president be like

[onyx loom]

oof

[prisma wave]

no no go on

[onyx loom]

usa has 565k deaths ☹️

[prisma wave]

How is a world without politics possible

[pale shell]

If Isle of Wight was to vanish would anybody even notice because its honestly so small nobody knows about it.

[cinder flare]

well first of all we would miss Bridget here

so yes I would personally notice

[onyx loom]

this discord server would

[prisma wave]

yeah boris was a bit busy saving all the other countries unfortunately

[onyx loom]

forgot to save usa ☹️

[pale shell]

But nobody's on Isle of Wight

[prisma wave]

150k people but ok

[pale shell]

How can you fit 150k people on one road???

[ocean quartz]

He was busy leaving the EU, only took them 5 years

[pale shell]

Only took 2 but okay

[obtuse gale]

Ever heard of the "human centipede"?

[pale shell]

No

[prisma wave]

on what planet

[pale shell]

UK

Oh no

[onyx loom]

we had the referendum in 2016 lol

"how time flies"

[prisma wave]

referendum was literally 2016

^

[pale shell]

It wasn't

[onyx loom]

google it urself

[pale shell]

It was in 2018

[onyx loom]

i remember it vividly

[cinder flare]

wait really the referendum was in 2016

holy shit

[prisma wave]

im pretty sure it was

[pale shell]

Wtf 2016?

[onyx loom]

🥲

[ocean quartz]

5 years my dude

[onyx loom]

5 years sir

[pale shell]

Bm wasn't even born yet

[prisma wave]

getting brexit done

[pale shell]

Brexit is finished

That was done ages ago

[prisma wave]

yeah ages ago

[pale shell]

1st Jan right?

[prisma wave]

4 months ago

[pale shell]

Genuine question btw

[prisma wave]

Wait no

Yeah

Lol

[pale shell]

I can't even remember what happened last week :(

I wish I was joking about that

[cinder flare]

old boomer (odin) tries to remember 2016

[ocean quartz]

Tbh with this shitty pandemic every week is the same

Wake up suffer go to sleep

[pale shell]

Why you even call bm a boomer

[cinder flare]

dude it's been more than a year since the pandemic started

that's crazy af

[prisma wave]

wake up
See #dev-general
go back to sleep

[ocean quartz]

Ikr

[obtuse gale]

It's always been like that lol

[ocean quartz]

That's true, but now we can blame it on covid

[pale shell]

I mean I wouldn't suffer as much if I had this thing out my arm

[cinder flare]

not for long

[obtuse gale]

But the pandemic has an e n h a n c i n g effect

[prisma wave]

ima be honest 1st lockdown was kinda fun

we had sx and r/kotlinmemes

Nothing could stop us

[pale shell]

1st was fun but then it wore off

[onyx loom]

kotlinmemes 🥰

[obtuse gale]

BM coming out of the closet 👀

[prisma wave]

Wot

[cinder flare]

mask mandate in my state ended on the 10th, my uni has no mask requirements next semester lol

[oblique heath]

wott

[prisma wave]

did I say that my irl friends found out about kotlinmemes

[ocean quartz]

Why would that make the pandemic end? It'll just make it worse lmao

[pale shell]

Honest serious question now, let's say a certain country was open and honest saying that something was going wild and we prepared for it what would the outcome be?

[prisma wave]

i feel genuine pain

[onyx loom]

lmao

its ok 🥲

[prisma wave]

what

[cinder flare]

nah dude my state is like 30% vaccinated or something crazy

[pale shell]

You know the thing...

[cinder flare]

and my uni is like 60%

[onyx loom]

thank god i took my reddit off my discord profile

[prisma wave]

that was a good idea

[half harness]

uh oh

[prisma wave]

?

[onyx loom]

u/JamesGoslingJavaGood

[pale shell]

If a certain country said something was going wild and we could prepare for it how much better would we be now

[prisma wave]

what is "going wild"

What does that mean

[obtuse gale]

Viral

[cinder flare]

are you getting mad at China for not disclosing it lol

[pale shell]

[obtuse gale]

That is literally the definition of viral

[prisma wave]

Ah I see

[ocean quartz]

Until you can have over 70% you can't really commemorate, plus let's hope the Brazil variant and the UK variant don't change even more and make vaccines useless lmao

[prisma wave]

Well they are pretty confident it didn't come from a lab sooo

[obtuse gale]

Oh boy imagine if they disclosed everything they do 🥲

[prisma wave]

what happened in 1979 ?

[pale shell]

I think it did.

[cinder flare]

https://i.imgur.com/eZRYbqs.png

[oblique heath]

something about squares

[cinder flare]

that's p good

[prisma wave]

I heard nothing happened

[ocean quartz]

Damn your campus almost has less cases than my state

[cinder flare]

right!

[oblique heath]

must have been a figment of our collective imagination

[cinder flare]

it's lookin kinda nice

[onyx loom]

https://www.reddit.com/r/kotlinmemes/comments/htkx77/in_honour_of_us_getting_funny_number_1_members/
this u?

[prisma wave]

🥶

can't believe that was only 9 months ago

[cinder flare]

truly an icon https://i.imgur.com/r5Vg7T3.png

[prisma wave]

lmao

[onyx loom]

what could possibly top r/kotlinmemes

im not sure its possible

[cinder flare]

that's the top of r/kotlinmemes

[onyx loom]

starmism is going through all the threads for the first time 🥲

[cinder flare]

https://i.imgur.com/hkLN9GQ.png 👀

[prisma wave]

That aged well

[cinder flare]

sour milk yikes

[onyx loom]

how naive

[cinder flare]

https://i.imgur.com/VwENiDA.png

that has not changed

[onyx loom]

paper 1.17 soon tho

[obtuse gale]

Minecraft 1.17 Episode 1 SOON™️

[cinder flare]

wait yeah which 1.17 part lol

the first?

[obtuse gale]

Then we'll get the Episode 2

Then we'll get Minecraft Alex

[cinder flare]

awwww yeah

[obtuse gale]

And we'll be left waiting for the Minecraft 1.17 Episode 3 🥲

[cinder flare]

14 years and counting 🥲

thank god I accurately remembered the release year of half life 2 episode 2

[prisma wave]

Ohh hahaha I just got that

clever

[cinder flare]

okay now that's a good one

could've been gradle users instead of java users tho

[onyx loom]

the common criticism for that meme

[forest pecan]

does intellij debugger allow you to go into actual library code and debug in there

cause for me it doesnt do that

its being so annoying

im assured im stepping in

im pressing F7

[obtuse gale]

Did you look into where I told you to look into?

[cinder flare]

i mean yeah if you ctrl + click

also didn't you ask this earlier

[forest pecan]

yes ofc

and ctrl click didnt work

[obtuse gale]

and?

[forest pecan]

what do you think lmao. it just simply didnt work

[obtuse gale]

well but what did you do lol

what's the settings you changed etc

[forest pecan]

I unchecked Skip Synthetic Methods

but nowhere it says on there

to skip library code

like the "Do not step into the classes" only has jdk and junit classes

not a random ass library

lol

and for some odd reason

so i click run to cursor right

at a method i absolutely know must be executed because it is directly being called

but intellij just skips it and the error shows in the console smh

i can film a video if you want

[obtuse gale]

does it happen for every library or one in particular or a method in particular

[forest pecan]

i have no idea as i havent tested that yet but here is a video

i need to convert it one sec

[cinder flare]

ffmpeg go brrrr

[forest pecan]

hm?

what about it lol

[cinder flare]

i need to convert it one sec

[forest pecan]

oh

i use vlc lol

and that uses ffmpeg

[cinder flare]

vlc uses ffmpeg

[forest pecan]

Yeah

[obtuse gale]

ooooohhh

modules shit

[forest pecan]

wdym

lmao

[cinder flare]

bro wtf is that background music

and why is your IJ transluscent

[obtuse gale]

in your remote jar debug thing configuration did you set this to this?

[forest pecan]

theres backgroundmusic?

lol

[forest pecan]

let me check

oh i selected it to one module

yea thats why

[cinder flare]

yeah it's like space jam kinda music

[obtuse gale]

wasn't even a library smh

[forest pecan]

wait i cant do <whole project>

tho lol

[forest pecan]

oh thats valorant background music

xD

[cinder flare]

oh yikes

[forest pecan]

i set it to my parent project

[obtuse gale]

yeah cuz this was a different configuration thing lol

[forest pecan]

i hope that works

[obtuse gale]

what about no module

[forest pecan]

o

[cinder flare]

lol

[forest pecan]

ok lol

[obtuse gale]

👀

[forest pecan]

i have my intellij translucent cause

background

[cinder flare]

sounds hard to read

i have my windows terminal a little translucent but it also heavily blurs the background still

[forest pecan]

if i had my background visible it would be even harder xD

[obtuse gale]

I mean you just get used to it?

like every other thing you do in life that requires you to adapt lol

[cinder flare]

well I mean

[forest pecan]

no module didnt seem to fix it

[cinder flare]

objective readability isn't something you adapt to

[forest pecan]

lets try

parent thing now

[cinder flare]

there's a reason contrast exists lol

[forest pecan]

parent thing didnt work either

intellij is bad

lmao

im going back to eclipse sry im sailing off

cya kids

/s

[obtuse gale]

I don't recall how but I remember somehow avoiding this issue

[forest pecan]

yea when i click

Show Current Execution Point

nothing happens

[obtuse gale]

it's odd because you can see in the call stack the debugger definitely did enter the method lol

[forest pecan]

Yeah

and its correct to

its just quite

annoying to debug

without the current execution line xD

[obtuse gale]

yeah

[forest pecan]

id have to count and do weird method shit

[obtuse gale]

I mean you can navigate to the file manually lol you just won't see a red line highlighting the current execution point

[forest pecan]

Yeah

[obtuse gale]

Debugger uses the information from the compiled classes in module's compiler output directory

makes sense

[forest pecan]

ah rip

yeah thats why

i have native dependency loading

ohh

yep thats the culprit

xD

So, I should probably instead

shade the libraries i want to debug

right

[obtuse gale]

hold on a minute..

[forest pecan]

i found the issue while debugging using the call stacks

lmao

good thing that it has line numbers

[obtuse gale]

which module did you set in the config thing

[forest pecan]

the full project module

[obtuse gale]

You are basically shading the rest of the project in the plugin module right?

[forest pecan]

Yes

However, dependency loading

remember I am using straight up

downloaded jars from maven and loading them during runtime

meaning they arent shaded into the jar

i feel like this may be the reason why

[obtuse gale]

depends

ish

is the method you want to step into but can't part of the shaded jar or is it added later?

See for example https://imgur.com/a/Wl8aqeS
The first one is in the "common" module
The third one is in the "bukkit" module
But "common" is built and shaded into the "bukkit" jar so it's in the debugger classpath

And I have the module classpath thing set to the bukkit module only

also imgur fucked up the order

nice

[forest pecan]

added later

added into runtime later

id should say

completely separated from the main plugin jar

[obtuse gale]

okay so

I have a plan

unzip the jar that gets loaded and throw all the classes in the build folder

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/776909815179640872.png?v=1

[forest pecan]

lmaooo

[sweet cipher]

I just realized I didn't upload like half my project to github so I can't work on it for a week because I don't have access to my computer.

[oblique heath]

time to work on the other half

[cinder flare]

lmao

[oblique heath]

part of the problem is that latest is objectively not best, at least as far as performance goes 🥲

if mojang made a push for optimization and newer versions could handle more players, i think we'd see a lot more people switching to latest

[ocean quartz]

Probably never, 1.8 whiners will never shut lmao

[oblique heath]

it's bad enough to matter at scale

i think the best example i can give is 2b2t

there's a big reason they're on 1.12 instead of 1.16 right now

[ocean quartz]

Mojang should rewrite the server in Go

[oblique heath]

the last thing I want is a total rewrite in a different language 😢

last time that happened, we got minecraft bedrock

we lost plugins

we got in game purchases

actually wait

can bedrock have plugins?

[ocean quartz]

Nukkit

Also Geyser

[oblique heath]

oh you know what, nukkit actually doesn't look that bad from what i'm seeing

the api looks super similar to bukkit's

[obtuse gale]

cool, nothing I should care about then just yet

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/776909815179640872.png

idek what that is tbf

lol

lmfao

ah a network

o

[oblique heath]

mineplex is like a subset of hypixel

it fills the same niche

is cubecraft also a minigame server?

[quiet depot]

nukkit is very hmm

and yes it's similar to bukkit, that was intentional

[oblique heath]

yeah i'm very glad it is

[obtuse gale]

lol

[oblique heath]

i didn't know it was this similar before, i actually might give writing nukkit plugins a shot

[quiet depot]

it's a bit how ya goin

[oblique heath]

what's wrong with it though o.o

to make it hmm

[quiet depot]

I don't remember the last time I saw bukkit get praised for good design choices

yet nukkit has basically copied the bukkit api

[obtuse gale]

I haven't worked with nukkit but looking at how LP uses it, it's like extremely similar to bukkit

[oblique heath]

ah so its bad because it copied off of bukkit which is bad

that makes sense i guess

[obtuse gale]

lol

[quiet depot]

oh there's also like no documentation at all iirc

[oblique heath]

oop

[obtuse gale]

just use the bukkit docs, duh 💁 ✨

[quiet depot]

the problem is they copied bukkit

[oblique heath]

what is that

[quiet depot]

but design wise, java edition and bedrock are very different

[oblique heath]

i don't see any documentation there though lol

[obtuse gale]

they have jdocs lol

hahaha what the

[quiet depot]

another issue is that chances are the javadocs they do have, are in chinese

[oblique heath]

ah i see

[obtuse gale]

yooooo they have an NBT API

I want that 😦

[oblique heath]

do you think there's a plugin that allows java players to connect to a nukkit server

[quiet depot]

yes

it's called geyser

[oblique heath]

ah

[quiet depot]

and it's not a plugin

[oblique heath]

wait no

[obtuse gale]

dude this is weird as fuck

[oblique heath]

that's the inverse of what i want

[obtuse gale]

Entity extends Location??

[oblique heath]

i want java players to connect to bedrock servers

not bedrock players to connect to java servers

[quiet depot]

doesn't geyser work in both ways?

[oblique heath]

does it?

[quiet depot]

idk

I've never looked into geyser

I only ever looked at dragonproxy yonks ago

pretty sure that went both ways

[oblique heath]

on their spigotmc page it says they work for bukkit, bungee, velocity, and standalone

idk what standalone means there

[quiet depot]

geyser running by itself

[oblique heath]

hmm

well in any case this is very interesting

are bedrock servers capable of holding more players than java servers

oh wow

yeah i saw that

[cinder flare]

well C++ outta do it for ya

[oblique heath]

see that's why i would think that it'd be nicer to have a plugin for nukkit that allowed java players to connect

[cinder flare]

Java gc go brrrrr

[oblique heath]

rather than have bedrock players connect to a spigot backend

[quiet depot]

that 3k - 30k has to be bullshit

[cinder flare]

see the problem is, 99% of plugins are written for a spigot backend

[oblique heath]

well yeah but that's the only problem right

is there anything else besides that

[cinder flare]

the bedrock stuff also isn't open source and I think the EULA might be more restrictive?

also microtransactions bad

[oblique heath]

is.. the java stuff open source?

[cinder flare]

decompilable

good luck decompiling the C++ code lol

[oblique heath]

as far as the microtransactions go, yeah, i really don't like that

[obtuse gale]

I think I once got to decompile (not disassemble, fully decompile) some c++ code

it was the most terrifying thing I ever saw

[cinder flare]

oh yeah

you thought param_1, param_2, param_3, param_4 was bad

[oblique heath]

but besides that it kinda feels like bedrock is the way to go if it can also do plugins and already has an api super similar to bukkit's

the only reason i haven't thought about it until now is i didn't realize bedrock could run plugins

[cinder flare]

No I think the way to go is to just write a Java server in C++ lol

ooh or maybe Rust

[oblique heath]

for whatever reason 🤦

[quiet depot]

ivan nukkit won't have better performance than your java edition server

[obtuse gale]

https://github.com/cuberite/cuberite

[oblique heath]

why not D;

is it only the vanilla server?

because java

[obtuse gale]

it's a bedrock edition server but it's made in java

[cinder flare]

is that good?

[obtuse gale]

no idea lol

[cinder flare]

oh lol

i was gonna say, maybe I'll make the Cuberite Essentials and migrate

[obtuse gale]

but it exists and supports lua plugins

[cinder flare]

lua?

hmmm

[obtuse gale]

ya

[quiet depot]

cuberite is 1.12.2

[cinder flare]

my type safety

gone, reduced to atoms

also wtf

[obtuse gale]

there is a 1.14 branch

but yeah

super WIP

[cinder flare]

well see the problem is the server I plan on working on is gonna be 1.17 lol

[obtuse gale]

lol

[cinder flare]

so uh, might be a while for that one lol

[oblique heath]

i didn't realize the language alone had that much of an impact

[quiet depot]

it doesn't

[cinder flare]

well you see, Java GC go brrrrrrrr

[obtuse gale]

there's a 1.7 branch wtf

[cinder flare]

also JVM vs ASM code

[oblique heath]

then why is nukkit no better than spigot

[cinder flare]

because it's written in java?

it just modifies the protocol to work with bedrock protocol

[oblique heath]

but piggy just said that the language isn;t that much of an impact

oh

[cinder flare]

well no it certainly does

[quiet depot]

ivan it'll either be worse or better, but due to the nature of the project, I'm assuming it'll actually be worse than spigot

minimal impact star

[oblique heath]

wait is nukkit just a java edition server in disguise

[quiet depot]

the main factor is the people making it, not the language being used

no ivan

[cinder flare]

you're saying a JVM server compared to a C++ server is not a difference?

[quiet depot]

minimal

[cinder flare]

no fucking way

[oblique heath]

not enough to go from 150 -> 30k people

[quiet depot]

if it's made by skilled people

[cinder flare]

dude can't bedrock do like 50 chunk render distance easy and java is stuck at like 16

[obtuse gale]

I mean the jvm can do optimization marvels too at runtime

[cinder flare]

well yeah but it will always be slower than straight-up compiling, no?

[quiet depot]

star that feat is not due to the use of c++ alone

it's due to the code behind being bedrock apparently being better

the language really isn't the driving factor behind performance

[oblique heath]

is nukkit botching up all of that code then?

[cinder flare]

well yeah but not having a garbage collector and not running interpreted code has to be a moderate difference

[quiet depot]

you can write good java code that performs way better than shit c++

[cinder flare]

well obviously yeah

but like, assuming the competence of people, C++ has the potential to be a lot faster than Java

[quiet depot]

yes

[cinder flare]

okay phew

[quiet depot]

but we can't assume competence

[cinder flare]

life crisis averted

[quiet depot]

especially with mojang

[cinder flare]

very true haha

[quiet depot]

we've all seen their minecraft code

[cinder flare]

I am just honestly impressed that nobody has written a C++ Java server for the latest versions that's really good

[quiet depot]

because it's extremely fucking difficult

[cinder flare]

Like it feels like it could make such a difference

[quiet depot]

completely unexplored territory

[cinder flare]

I mean, according to wiki.vg there's like 15 server implementations in different langs, no?

[oblique heath]

it'd be a much better use of time to redesign the way in which the minecraft java server runs, rather than just recode it in cpp

[quiet depot]

none are complete

the only complete java edition implementation is the one provided by mojang

this is because the minecraft server isn't fully documented

[cinder flare]

dang okay I didn't know that

[obtuse gale]

well duh lmao

[quiet depot]

for example, vanilla world generation

[cinder flare]

so what if Mojang were to fully release the source code of the vanilla server implementation?

[quiet depot]

wouldn't make much of a difference, we basically have the source code

[cinder flare]

Well with comments and everything

[quiet depot]

there just hasn't been much of an effort it seems to create a standalone impl

cuberite probably has the most effort put into it, glowstone is basically abandonedstagnant last I checked

[cinder flare]

I'm just impressed that a server like Hypixel, who stands to benefit massively from a better server instance and obviously has the developer might to do it, hasn't done it yet

[quiet depot]

why are you assuming they haven't?

[oblique heath]

they definitely have

[cinder flare]

oh

now that's very sad

[quiet depot]

hive cited a statistic in their shutdown message, that they can host 30k bedrock players for the same cost as 3k java players. I personally think this statistic gives the wrong impression

I'd be very surprised if any publicly available server impl could reach those numbers

[cinder flare]

Man I hate proprietary software

[oblique heath]

they probably meant on a network

not a single instance xd

[cinder flare]

imagine the world we'd live in if Hypixel and other big ones open sourced their stuff

[cinder flare]

well yeah but that doesn't change anything lol

it still costs 10x more per player

[oblique heath]

ah i see

[quiet depot]

kinda funny how much pressure is put on developers these days to open source their stuff but servers don't see any of that

[cinder flare]

well presumably it's a lot easier for a single dev or like a team of two or three to open source something cause they don't care too much

[oblique heath]

well i think it can be argued that those optimized instances are hypixel's main advantage over competition

[cinder flare]

corporations stand to make money if they keep their source code to themselves

yeah exactly

[oblique heath]

like sure google open sources a lot of stuff

but none of that is how it makes money

you don't see them OSing their advertisement preference matching algorithms

[cinder flare]

well yeah their search AI that they couldn't even open source if they wanted to and their cloud hosting makes most of their money I presume

they don't really have algorithms, it's all AI

[oblique heath]

🤷‍♂️

[quiet depot]

I wonder how much google cloud actually makes

ik aws is the main revenue source for amazon

[cinder flare]

if it's anything like AWS, a lot of money lol

[oblique heath]

yeah

[quiet depot]

always thought google was mainly ad money tho

not from cloud

[cinder flare]

very true yeah I'm not sure

[oblique heath]

well i think that was true for a while

how recently did google cloud become a thing?

looks like 2011, hmm

[quiet depot]

2008

[cinder flare]

it came into relevance quite recently afaik

[oblique heath]

well it was available publicly in 2011 according to wikipedia

but google itself was made in like 2008 so i guess it's been around a while

[quiet depot]

o

google itself was not made in 2008

that doesn't sound right

[cinder flare]

lmao

Google was made in 1998 lol

[quiet depot]

google was founded in 1998

[oblique heath]

wait

so it was

how did i get 2008

[quiet depot]

ur mixing ur dates up

2011 was siri

2008 was cloud

1998 was google

[oblique heath]

well according to wikipedia

[quiet depot]

ic

[oblique heath]

cloud was announced in 2008, but available in 2011

so 2011 is the earliest it could be relevant

[quiet depot]

yeah but like star said, only came into relevance recently

[oblique heath]

yeah

although

when did aws become relevant

[cinder flare]

before google cloud

[oblique heath]

yeah seems like very early 2000s

was when it was made

[quiet depot]

cloud feels like the newest out of the big 3 cloud hosts

aws, azure, cloud

[cinder flare]

yeah it really is

AWS has been the backbone of the industry for quite some time

Azure came along to scoop some of it up and it's quite alright

[pale shell]

I didn't realise how much AWS is used.

[cinder flare]

Cloud is the freshest and, in my experiences from using it, the worst

[pale shell]

They use it for things like F1

[oblique heath]

what's bad about it o.o

[cinder flare]

It's like Cisco but for hosting

[oblique heath]

out of curiosity

[quiet depot]

for regular people like us it's expensive

[oblique heath]

well ye

but thats true for azure and aws too right?

[quiet depot]

can't comment on aws

azure is the most expensive out of all of them afaik

[cinder flare]

I just dislike their whole format, it seems too expensive, they do a lot of things weirdly, and I also don't trust that Google won't cancel it on a whim like all their other projects

[oblique heath]

xd

[cinder flare]

As the old saying goes, "Nobody ever got fired for buying Cisco".

Same with AWS

[oblique heath]

my friend chose to host a website on azure for a month for a school project

[quiet depot]

oof

[cinder flare]

It also has the largest userbase, so it has the largest support system. People get certified for free on it and know how to use it

[oblique heath]

he got like 2gb of ram for the server machine, and a few sql databases

cost him over 100

[obtuse gale]

How many kidneys was that worth

Oof

[oblique heath]

actually a lot over 100

[quiet depot]

people just need to stick to ovh

[cinder flare]

I'm impressed that more companies don't understand the value of free education

[oblique heath]

i think a full month would have been 150 ish

[pale shell]

Wtf.

[oblique heath]

to be fair i think i remember he was allowed to use 3x 2gb machines

[cinder flare]

If you can train new users quickly, cheaply, and easily, your platform adoption will go up tremendeously

[oblique heath]

even though he only used one

[pale shell]

Do they not understand we need have money?

[oblique heath]

i think the logic in charging so much is

[quiet depot]

untouched azure isn't meant to be used like that

[oblique heath]

it's still cheaper than doing it yourself

[quiet depot]

you're meant to buy big then it's cheap afaik

[oblique heath]

yea

[pale shell]

Idk if funny will see this, but if you see this funny good afternoon.

[cinder flare]

Yes hosting like this is good for companies

[pale shell]

So, it's very expensive then.

[quiet depot]

only for individuals

[oblique heath]

e c o n o m y o f s c a l e

the very thing cloud computing swore to defeat

[pale shell]

Does HC have a azure thing?

[quiet depot]

hc uses ovh

[obtuse gale]

how tf does one make a plugin but not know how to op themselves lol

[quiet depot]

we've got a few virtual servers and a dedi

[pale shell]

But didn't they

[cinder flare]

It is much much cheaper to buy a VPS than it is to buy all the hardware, maintain it, hire staff to maintain it, buy new hardware when it breaks or becomes out of date, worry about load capacity, pay for power and internet, worry about their own backups, etc.

Cloud hosting just does so much for you it is 100% worth the price

[quiet depot]

one quarter of a data centre burnt down in france or something untouched

helpchat doesn't have any servers in france

[pale shell]

Yeah that's what I meant

Australia?

[quiet depot]

all our servers are in canada

[cinder flare]

hell yeah

[obtuse gale]

Canadia

[pale shell]

How come Canada?

[quiet depot]

cheap good ping

[pale shell]

Cheap? I thought it'd be expensive.

[quiet depot]

cheap wasn't a good word to use since all of ovh's shit is basically the same price

$3/gb

iirc

[pale shell]

That's pretty good.

[quiet depot]

you can also use that number on shared hosts

most shared hosts sell ovh, and if their prices are under $3/gb, they're probably over selling

[oblique heath]

i think the worst part about cloud providers is how they can be predatory to people who haven't used them before

azure especially overblows how difficult it is to set stuff up yourself

[cinder flare]

lol, not turning off your server and being charged a bazillion dollars?

[oblique heath]

by flexing it's "all in one" solutions

that too lol

[quiet depot]

I think most hosts are just scams lol

cough digital ocean

[cinder flare]

I mean, you're getting a VPS so you still have to know how to set it up lol

[pale shell]

Is digital ocean a scam?

[quiet depot]

yes

less so than it used to be

but definitely still overpriced

[pale shell]

[quiet depot]

digitalocean used to charge $10/gb

[oblique heath]

wow

[pale shell]

Wtf so cheap

[quiet depot]

this was only a couple years ago

[pale shell]

s

[quiet depot]

other hosts were doing competitive prices so it's not like they had to do high prices to cover the bills

they chose to

then I guess people finally caught on because they had to lower it to $5 /gb

[cinder flare]

I dunno man, I just used their free student credit and that was it lol

[quiet depot]

which is still high

yeah I used to use their free credit thing too

that's basically how I got my start with linux

[pale shell]

Some people do like a dollar a gb or 50 cent a gb right

[cinder flare]

$3 per is about average

[quiet depot]

usually also a scam untouched, but for a different reason

[pale shell]

Imagine a cent a gb

[quiet depot]

I mean you can do that

except it's not ram you're getting, it's hdd storage

[cinder flare]

yeah if they're super cheap they're likely overloading the servers and you get terrible performance

[oblique heath]

you can get 1gb/cent/month in aws if you're archiving

[cinder flare]

well yes you're also archiving lol

[pale shell]

I remember one host managed to put another server ontop of mine and they couldn't work out how mine was lagging out

[oblique heath]

i think archiving is actually well worth the money as far as cloud providers go; or at least aws

[quiet depot]

but yeah I used to use digitalocean too with the free credit, then I found this other host deal which I've been using for like 4 years now

[compact perch]

FAQ Answer:

https://my.hostus.us/cart.php?a=add&pid=64

Requested by: PiggyPiglet • best-vps-deal

[cinder flare]

10000% yes

[pale shell]

P2w

[cinder flare]

1gb/cent/month for guaranteed data resiliency

[oblique heath]

juicy

[cinder flare]

companies pay tens of thousands to put important data on tapes to protect it

with that, you're saving so much

[oblique heath]

that's $10/tb

[pale shell]

I wanna get as much xp as I can lol

I should be sleeping but yeah I cba

[oblique heath]

which is the same as buying a drive and running it for a few months

but yeah the resiliency alone is worth that much

with your own drives you'd want to put em in raid

so twice the cost

[cinder flare]

I dunno man, a good server like 3TB drive is like $40

[oblique heath]

and you'd still want backups

where are you finding 3tb drives for $40

[cinder flare]

i dunno where are you finding 3tb drives for not $40 👀

[oblique heath]

unless they're used, i think you'll be hard pressed to get that kind of deal

[quiet depot]

ivan he said a server with 3tb is $40

is that monthly star?

[cinder flare]

oh no I meant hard drives

first thing I googled lol

but $60 is more accurate

https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Enterprise-Capacity-3-5-Inch-ST3000NM0033/dp/B009YQOIYA

[oblique heath]

yeah 60 is more reasonable

for a consumer drive that you'd use for archival

[quiet depot]

da hek

[cinder flare]

so $20 per terabyte, *2 for RAID at least, which'll last like, a year?

I'm not too sure on the length of these bad boys

but anyways, amazon archiving big good

[oblique heath]

yes

[cinder flare]

also I want to build an application that uses MongoDB

got any ideas?

[oblique heath]

you want a reason to use mongodb?

[quiet depot]

lol

[cinder flare]

yeah

it seems cool

[quiet depot]

can you possibly be any more vague

[oblique heath]

i mean, if we're talking minecraft server stuff

[cinder flare]

well I was reading the Hypixel job requirements

[oblique heath]

maybe for logs

[cinder flare]

and it mentions MongoDB and Docker

[quiet depot]

why do u want to work for hypixel

[cinder flare]

so I figured "it'd probably be good to know how to use MongoDB and Redis"

I mean I don't

[quiet depot]

have u done game dev properly before?

[cinder flare]

just figured it'd be interesting to see

[quiet depot]

it’s kinda shit

[cinder flare]

yea I know

but Mongo and Docker are used in a lot more than just game dev

[quiet depot]

i use mongo in docdex

[oblique heath]

you can make a plugin that takes a bunch of logs and dumps em into mongodb

then you can search through them all for keywords or whatever

[cinder flare]

well that's kinda lame

[oblique heath]

imagine having all player chatlogs at your fingertips

[quiet depot]

do u know how mongo works?

[cinder flare]

JSON document database?

[quiet depot]

yes but do you know what that actually looks like

[cinder flare]

no

but im here to learn!

[quiet depot]

basically mongo has databases

and inside a database u have collections

and collections have things, I can’t remember what these things are called, so ima just call them files

[oblique heath]

documents

[quiet depot]

documents ok

documents are full of json

well technically bson

b standing for binary, binary json

[cinder flare]

okay

so i know how to work with relational databases

I presume it's not very similar

[quiet depot]

now these documents have indexes which relate to the fields in the json

[cinder flare]

and it focuses more on serialization/deserialization of objects

[quiet depot]

there’s different types of indexes, like in mysql

u’ve got hash indexes, compound indexes

other shit i can’t remember

[cinder flare]

im not 100% clear on what indexes are?

do you mean like keys?

[quiet depot]

ye

so the documents are structured by the index, it’s how you search the documents

https://docs.mongodb.com/manual/indexes/