dev-general

[heady birch]

well

that address looks odd

[quiet depot]

it's not a hardware issue

it's bad code

[heady birch]

lol

[quiet depot]

or gamma rays

[stuck harbor]

hehe I installed a macos vm

take that

[heady birch]

IMPOSSIBLE

[stuck harbor]

I'll buy a new gpu for passthrough

I thonk its on macos catalonia rn

[hot hull]

So when should I yeet that drive out the window?

[quiet depot]

god passthrough

so much effort

why can't virt manager just set it up for me

[hot hull]

My only concern is it'll damage the driveway

[stuck harbor]

much reward tho

ew virt manager

I config everything in shell scripts

[quiet depot]

cool

[stuck harbor]

even worse

||vmware||

[quiet depot]

lol

that's what I used to use

then one day I had an epiphany

"why am I using vmware i'm literally on linux"

[stuck harbor]

haha

an epiphany from the gods of unix

[quiet depot]

I don't need passthrough on pc anyway

if I need windows I have dual boot

I need it for my laptop

[oblique heath]

hot take but i think using a VM is cleaner than using dual boot

[stuck harbor]

yeah I agree tbh

[quiet depot]

it's separate drive dual boot

[stuck harbor]

I'm considering getting another gpu for passthrough

[quiet depot]

not bm's clusterfuck single drive dual boot

[oblique heath]

well even still

[stuck harbor]

I may have a windows partition on my singular 1TiB hard drive

possibly

[quiet depot]

I need windows on laptop for webex

[stuck harbor]

buy a mac then

[oblique heath]

using a VM is more scaleable, less risky, and there isn't enough overhead to really be concerned about

[stuck harbor]

macbook I mean

[jovial warren]

imagine only having a single drive though amirite

[quiet depot]

unfortunately I like getting good hardware for my money

apple hasn't ever offered that

[stuck harbor]

well their M1 chips are pretty sick

[quiet depot]

I think you misspelt shit

[stuck harbor]

I did not

I've been a big supporter of arm for years

ofc apple pull it off on the desktop first

[quiet depot]

m1 solves fuck all

literally worse switching to that than linux

[oblique heath]

arm is nice but it's not good for anything besides low power

[stuck harbor]

m1 is super low tdp

[jovial warren]

the reason why things like MacOS run much smoother is because they can make assumptions about the hardware they’re running on

[stuck harbor]

and decent performance

[quiet depot]

yeah but

idgaf about tdp

i just like power

raw power

[stuck harbor]

I do care on laptops

[jovial warren]

Windows has to deal with drivers and shit to adapt to the OS it’s on

[stuck harbor]

I like battery

[quiet depot]

ah yeah well

[jovial warren]

laptops bad

[stuck harbor]

on desktop I actually prefer low form factor systems

[jovial warren]

desktop good laptop bad

[quiet depot]

pro gamers like me use both

[jovial warren]

nah m8, ATX best form factor

facts

[oblique heath]

eATX?

[jovial warren]

you can attach the most to ATX motherboards

[quiet depot]

yeah atx is really the way to go

[stuck harbor]

meh

[jovial warren]

ATX is the only way to go

[quiet depot]

iwanio are you one of those weirdos that also use half keyboards?

[stuck harbor]

yes, I am

[quiet depot]

with the num pad and arrows missing

[jovial warren]

could put money on that

haha knew it

[stuck harbor]

I don't need 'scroll lock'

[jovial warren]

man how can you program without arrow keys

[stuck harbor]

emacs

[quiet depot]

I use nearly my whole keyboard

[jovial warren]

if you don’t have arrow keys you’re overusing the mouse

[quiet depot]

only keys I don't use are pause break and screen lock

[stuck harbor]

no bardy

emacs

[jovial warren]

wat dis

[stuck harbor]

I don't need mouse or arrow keys

I use keybinds

[jovial warren]

my keyboard doesn’t have sys rq on it sadge

[stuck harbor]

I kinda want the massdrop alt

super cool

[jovial warren]

sys rq is actually still useful on Linux

[stuck harbor]

hmm?

[jovial warren]

you can directly send the kernel a SIGTERM if your UI freezes

[stuck harbor]

ah yes

[oblique heath]

or just use dont use a ui

[quiet depot]

iwanio

r u the kind of person that buys mouses with holes in them

[jovial warren]

I ain’t spending my time watching YouTube videos by downloading them through cURL and displaying them using ASCII characters thanks lol

[oblique heath]

if you want to watch youtube use your phone or windows

[quiet depot]

what about code

what do I use then

[oblique heath]

linux

[jovial warren]

IntelliJ for ASCII lol

[quiet depot]

no

what tool

[oblique heath]

vim

[quiet depot]

if there's no ui

vim

ok

can vim do everything that intellij can do?

[jovial warren]

nope

[oblique heath]

it can do like 95% of it

with addons

[jovial warren]

vim is a text editor

IntelliJ is an IDE

vim is a great text editor, but it will never be better than IntelliJ

[oblique heath]

what do you need to do that only intellij can do

[jovial warren]

also, I’ve used Windows for development so much now that I’ve finally started to learn how command prompt works

does vim have visualisation of dependencies? easy switching between files at the click of a button? ctrl+click? import optimisation? auto code formatting?

[oblique heath]

plugins

[jovial warren]

my ass

also, IntelliJ’s UI is just designed better and feels better than vim

[hot hull]

No reason not to use IJ

since it's the best there is

[jovial warren]

I mean, if you really wanna use vim, enable vim in the IntelliJ editor

it has an option to do that

[oblique heath]

i'm not saying use vim for the sake of using vim

i'm saying use vim because it does everything you need it to, in linux, without a gui

[jovial warren]

it’s like saying you should use Windows Notepad because you can write code in it

[oblique heath]

if you have issues like your UI freezing, i'd rather use vim than have to deal with that

[hot hull]

notepad best

[jovial warren]

while technically you can, IntelliJ adds a hell of a lot more, since IntelliJ is designed for programming, Notepad isn’t

vim isn’t designed for programming, it’s a text editor

trying to turn vim into an IDE is a mistake

[oblique heath]

what is an IDE if not a fancified text editor

[jovial warren]

IDEs generally provide a lot of features that text editors just don’t

[oblique heath]

if all vim is is a text editor

then what's wrong with using it to make an IDE

aka with plugins

[jovial warren]

I guess

[oblique heath]

i mean intellij has a built in text editor after all

[jovial warren]

but not using IntelliJ is a curse

[oblique heath]

limiting yourself to only intellij is a curse

[jovial warren]

IntelliJ can do much more than vim can even dream of

[oblique heath]

it's also much heavier, and bloated compared to what you can achieve with vim

[jovial warren]

sure, use vim in the CLI, but not in the GUI

[oblique heath]

that

is all i'm saying

xd

[jovial warren]

when IntelliJ is available, always pick IntelliJ

also, using vim in a UI is a curse

[oblique heath]

i do agree with that

[jovial warren]

gvim is absolutely terrible

changing the subject, did you know Krypton has watchdog?

a.k.a a separate thread that makes sure the tick time doesn’t go over a certain threshold

[oblique heath]

is that what makes sure ticks catch up to the ideal tps

[jovial warren]

and shuts down the server if it does, assuming it’s crashed

[oblique heath]

how are the coroutines currently organized to tick everything

if that exists

[jovial warren]

it still seems a little buggy, and seems to shut down seemingly at random, but it seems to work

ticking is sync

[oblique heath]

ah so for now it's just a single thread

[jovial warren]

it might always be a single coroutine

currently, it does time syncs (increments the time and sends out time updates every second to all players)

[hot hull]

I mean does the game tick have to wait for shit to execute

[jovial warren]

wdym?

if you mean like how Glowstone schedules tasks in the ticking then no, tasks are scheduled completely separately

they are scheduled on request

[hot hull]

I don't really know what I'm talking about so kek

[jovial warren]

lemme show you

https://github.com/GlowstoneMC/Glowstone/blob/dev/src/main/java/net/glowstone/scheduler/GlowScheduler.java#L191

we won’t be doing that

task scheduling won’t depend on how fast the server is ticking

it will be scheduled and executed separately from the primary coroutine and the ticking won’t have any idea how many tasks there may be (if any)

because it won’t touch them

so you can safely schedule tasks and have the run exactly after the time you scheduled them without having them run later if the primary coroutine slows down

also, there’s no such thing as synchronous commands or synchronous task scheduling

I wanna try my best to make as much as possible safely modifiable across coroutines

[oblique heath]

so if tasks run as soon as you schedule them

does that mean you can say place + remove + place + remove a block ,all within the same tick

[jovial warren]

theoretically yes

[oblique heath]

will those intermediate blocks actually cause any updates to anything else

like if you place+remove+place+remove a redstone block next to a piston

[old wyvern]

um what

[oblique heath]

in a single tick

what happens

[old wyvern]

That makes ticking useless

[oblique heath]

^

which might not ba a bad thing per se

[jovial warren]

what else could I do though?

[oblique heath]

i would love to see a server that doesn't actually use ticking to update stuff

[old wyvern]

Let the changes be handled on each tick

[oblique heath]

at least not to the extent that minecraft currently does

but idk how feasible that is to do while working with a vanilla client

[jovial warren]

I don't intend for block placing and breaking to be ticked

I want that to be reactive

Block updates will be ticked ofc

Atm, the only thing ticked is time

Lol

Anything that has to be ticked will be ticked

[prisma wave]

Redstone

[jovial warren]

But I don't want to do a vanilla and have everything be ticked

Redstone is a block update

[oblique heath]

wait

[jovial warren]

So redstone will be ticked

[oblique heath]

if you place a redstone block, that will not be ticked, right

or will it

[jovial warren]

If you place a block from a client, the block updates will be handled reactively

[oblique heath]

okay in that case

[jovial warren]

A.k.a in the processing of the block updates

I mean, block breaking amounts might need to be ticked tbh

But again, those are block updates

[oblique heath]

so if you place a block, it'll be ticked like normal

[jovial warren]

Not sure yet

[oblique heath]

because here's a concern of mine

[jovial warren]

If a client places a block, the updates for that will be handled on the handling of the block placement

[oblique heath]

lets say a redstone block is placed in the world with an event or whatever

[jovial warren]

Or at least, I think that's the way to go

[oblique heath]

does the redstone dust the block is placed next to also reactively update

before the next tick

or does the dust wait until the next tick to update

[jovial warren]

Good point

Maybe placing redstone dust should cause the chain reaction of block updates

[oblique heath]

this applies elsewhere as well

lighting, etc

[jovial warren]

Lighting will also be reactive I think

[hot hull]

I smell lag

[jovial warren]

Yeah I also kinda smell lag

[oblique heath]

having things not be limited by the speed of a tick means you have a lot more potential to schedule a lot of work at once

again like placing + breaking + placing + breaking a block

if that happens a hundred times in a single tick, and it's reactive

you would need to update lighting reactively 100 times within that

normally you'd only register one action in a tick at most

so you'd only have to update lighting once

[jovial warren]

True

Yeah lighting can be ticked

[oblique heath]

i dont think it's as simple as that though - if you tick lighting then all the updates happen at once

[jovial warren]

I could do lighting like the JVM does garbage collection

[oblique heath]

so you're not gaining anything

[jovial warren]

A.k.a you create and destroy stuff all the time, but the lighting engine will clean up lighting every tick

[oblique heath]

yeah

[jovial warren]

Or at least, it will try

[oblique heath]

that makes sense when sending packets to clients too right

[jovial warren]

I will use Starlight for lighting

[oblique heath]

because you'd only send an update packet per tick at most if i understand right

[jovial warren]

Packets being sent to clients are reactivr

When the client sends me packets, I sent it packets

[old wyvern]

I hear calin

[jovial warren]

All of the packet handling is and will remain async

Calin?

[old wyvern]

Yes

[jovial warren]

Wat dis

[old wyvern]

[oblique heath]

can you remind me of the end goal of krypton again

what it's trying to fix

[jovial warren]

Doesn't really have one tbh

It's a fun project for me to work on

But I want its performance to at least show vanilla up

Just really demonstrate how bad vanilla is

[oblique heath]

lol

if it were me, i think the most important thing that should be improved is the obvious: vanilla only uses a single synchronous thread to tick everything

sure reactive is nice, but if the same amount of logic is being executed on the thread at the end of the day i dont see why it would improve efficiency

[jovial warren]

You know that reactive logic is async right?

All packet handling uses a separate coroutine (may use multiple in the future)

[oblique heath]

well reactive logic doesn't have to be async right

it can be but i dont think that's a requirement

when i think reactive i think events rather than a clock determining when something happens

[jovial warren]

Yeah that's what I mean too

All the packet handling is async

[oblique heath]

well for packets that's fine, it makes sense

but most of the workload isnt packets right, it's ticking the world

and the way i see it you have two ways to make that faster; either make it so less stuff is ticked overall (with events instead of a clock)

or give it more room to handle that same amount of stuff, with multiple threads

or both of course, both is ideal

[jovial warren]

I think that was the plan I had

[jovial warren]

And me and @old wyvern spoke about this and kinda settled on the fact that asynchronous ticking is a nightmare

[oblique heath]

yeah asynchronous ticking is definitely a beast

but if you did somehow get that working then you'd have a lot of gain

like, an indescribable amount

[jovial warren]

I will try to do both

If I can pull it off, that would be literally insane

[oblique heath]

the first point i made has been drawn out by paper and other forks already

[hot hull]

Expecting 700% performance increase

[oblique heath]

usually by removing unneeded stuff like entity stuff and all that

[hot hull]

Bardy, imma set up a test server running krypton later

[jovial warren]

I mean, the one downside to my current setup is that asynchronous authentication is impossible

[jovial warren]

Go for it

See the speed

It's actually very fast at what it does because I cache chunks by region when I load them

Meaning I can just retrieve them again when you rejoin

Won't work forever ik, but it works for now

[oblique heath]

wdym by cache exactly

[jovial warren]

Since you always spawn in the same place

[jovial warren]

Caffeine

Like evicting cache for an hour

Just cache all the objects

[oblique heath]

right but... isn't that just you loading the chunk

[jovial warren]

Yeah

[oblique heath]

or i guess a lazy chunk would be closer to this

i hope

[jovial warren]

But it avoids me contacting the file system every time

As I said, won't work forever since it's under the assumption atm that the same chunks are always loaded every time, but it works for now

And it means that at a render distance of 10, you only load almost a million longs

For 441 chunks, that's really not bad

And after the initial join (which is a tiny bit slower because it has to read files), the caching makes the loading almost instant

And there's no delay in receiving chunks like Minecraft has either, since all of the chunk data and light update packets are sent in a for loop

[oblique heath]

what i meant here is

would you not get the same effect by just keeping the chunk loaded when the player leaves

[jovial warren]

(Light update before chunk data because otherwise the client thinks it doesn't have lighting data and calculates light itself)

[jovial warren]

What caching the chunks does

[oblique heath]

so all you're doing is keeping it loaded

okay

[jovial warren]

It means the chunks stay loaded in memory

[oblique heath]

yes

[jovial warren]

Lemme link you to the hackery that made this work lol

[oblique heath]

isn't there a loadChunk method

or something

in the spigot api

[jovial warren]

It has to calculate the positions for the chunks before it asks to load them, so the world manager can filter out anything we don't want

Which means 2 for loops

But that calculation uses a function that gets a position in a spiral in O(1), courtesy of Stack Overflow and @tranquil crane

[oblique heath]

i can't tell if you're just describing this in detail or actually making it out to be very complicated

[jovial warren]

https://github.com/KryptonMC/Krypton/blob/master/server/src/main/kotlin/org/kryptonmc/krypton/world/KryptonWorldManager.kt#L150

[jovial warren]

Nah it's not complicated, it's just a bit hacky that seems to work like a charm

The amount of looping there is a bit radical though

[oblique heath]

i see

[jovial warren]

And it's not at all optimised

That was my first attempt at making that work btw

So don't be surprised if it's trash

[oblique heath]

lol

[onyx loom]

hey bardy how far through are u on krypton so far

[jovial warren]

You can load into a world and move around, run commands, use the console, install LuckPerms and have it work, and as of my local version, time is synced between all players (the world time is now properly updated lol)

And that's about it

[onyx loom]

pog

sounds like minecraft if u ask me

[jovial warren]

Going underwater will still let you walk around like normal (because yes, updating your underwater state is server-side)

Not kidding

[onyx loom]

intriguing.

[jovial warren]

It confused Nicole as well lol

I mean, Nicole was surprised when I told her I got plugin loading working without URL class loader hacks lol

Oh also, sending the block break state is calculated server-side

So all I get is a packet when the client starts digging and when they stop digging

[oblique heath]

now as far as async ticking goes

i think there's actually a non zero chance to have async updates work safely and with decently efficient use of multiple threads

[jovial warren]

I was thinking of splitting the world into sections (apparently like Aether does), but that proved to be a lot more complex than it sounds

[oblique heath]

right so here's my take on that

you do want to split the world into sections

but

it won't be by chunk or by region or "by" anything in particular

[jovial warren]

Sections of how large btw?

[oblique heath]

see that's the wrong mindset imo

first we need to think about why async is bad here in the first place

async is bad because the result of one update can impact the result of the next

[jovial warren]

It's bad because of multiple players in the same chunk could get things out of sync?

[jovial warren]

And that

[oblique heath]

and if we don't calculate them in the correct / consistent order, then we get random results

that's why everything is syncrhonous

my solution is

to use some sort of algorithm to decide whether or not two events are related

such that the result of one affects the other

then chain these along every event that happens in a tic

tick*

so you end up with "blobs" of related events

aka if a piston pushes a block and that causes a lighting update

[jovial warren]

@old wyvern

[oblique heath]

those are all within the same blob

this means that players in different regions of the world will very likely end up inside different blobs

[jovial warren]

I want some opinions on this by people who know a lot more than I do lol

[oblique heath]

and so can be processed independently

safely

[jovial warren]

It sounds like a good idea

on paper

[oblique heath]

maybe there are some issues with this i can't see right now but this would mean that on average, a busy world could spread the total work into logical chunks across potentially many threads

[jovial warren]

Well, many coroutines

[oblique heath]

the bad part is it can also be really inefficient / just as inefficient as vanilla if things are not spaced out

[jovial warren]

Yeah

Not enough threads is bad

[oblique heath]

no

[jovial warren]

But too many threads is also bad

[oblique heath]

i mean

[oblique heath]

specifically threads

coroutines run on a thread riht

right*

[jovial warren]

On the JVM, yeah

[oblique heath]

we want not coroutines but actual threads here

i think

[jovial warren]

They're very different to threads

[oblique heath]

more threads = more cores utilized

(ideally)

we don't need coroutines at all here

[jovial warren]

Coroutines are asynchronous subroutines that may be suspended and resumed freely, allowing dispatchers to easily switch between them

[oblique heath]

right but what i'm saying is we dont need to switch between stuff here

all of this ^ that i just said

should be possible with regular ol' ticking

instead of the event stuff you have going on

[jovial warren]

Coroutines are still more lightweight

[oblique heath]

what you're saying is use coroutines that are running on top of threads

[jovial warren]

And more idiomatic (@prisma wave)

[oblique heath]

i'm saying just run threads

without the coroutines

[jovial warren]

Coroutine dispatchers are extremely efficient at execution

Whilst they are backed by threads, coroutines are generally more efficient at a lot of things than threads

[oblique heath]

'backed by threads'

thats my point

you are using threads either way

[old wyvern]

eh?

[oblique heath]

we don't need to switch between stuff on these threads

so we dont need coroutines

[old wyvern]

Throwing a coroutine where you should simply use a thread is just dumb

[jovial warren]

I guess

[oblique heath]

anyways my second point

[old wyvern]

Co routines exist to simplify CPS

[oblique heath]

this

[jovial warren]

What do you think of Ivan's idea Yugi?

[old wyvern]

Not as a replacement for threads

[oblique heath]

all i mean by this is if all of the players in the world fall under the same blob

[old wyvern]

What is Ivans idea?

[oblique heath]

this offers zero benefit over regular vanilla ticking

[old wyvern]

ticking is not the issue Ivan

If that were the case, all existing games would be considered as performing badly

[oblique heath]

yugi read past this

[jovial warren]

I think the issue is more what vanilla does when it ticks

Rather than the actual ticking

Ticking in vanilla does much more than it needs to

[oblique heath]

yes but that's not what i am trying to address

with my solution

[jovial warren]

Only things that have to be ticked should be ticked

[oblique heath]

you are correct that vanilla ticking does more than it needs to

but that's a dead horse

that paper and all the other performance forks have been beating to death

imo

[old wyvern]

Ivan, the issue is

For your solution to work

You will need to predict changes

[oblique heath]

yes

[old wyvern]

That doesnt make sense now does it?

[oblique heath]

that's where the magical algorithm comes in

i'm assuming here but i imagine the way it currently works is

that you have a long list of all world updates that need to be done every tick

wait

hmm

[old wyvern]

Yes, but the "long" list of updates are something common for all games

Altho it is slightly more challenging for a sandbox game

Its pretty much the same all the way

[oblique heath]

alright so i guess the problem is

that you'd need to know that exhaustive list of all updates before you can sort them

into unrelated blobs

[jovial warren]

I still intend to tick worlds separately btw

[oblique heath]

maybe you can step through those updates without completing them entirely, just to build that large tree of all events and organize it to be processed entirely

[jovial warren]

Because you can do that

[oblique heath]

at the very least, i think it's save to assume that if two players are in separate areas with unloaded chunks between them, that there won't be any issues with handling the updates for each player on a separate thread

so it's not quite as granular as deciding if any two events are unrelated, but it'd still allow for a good enough spread over several threads to be worth implementing

[old wyvern]

Again, welcome to aether engine domains

[oblique heath]

ah

well then

[hot hull]

Oh yea, are they gonna implement aether into java now or no

[oblique heath]

wait

how does the aether engine do this

If there are too many entities to simulate effectively, the region of authority will be split, enabling computation to be handled by a different worker.

for minecraft

assuming the region of authority is the loaded chunks around a player / group of players

how can it split that if we decided that you need to find all of the events are happening in order to split in the first place

[old wyvern]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqsYmcXSrq8

[stuck harbor]

uwu

[jovial warren]

is Aether open-source?

[oblique heath]

well if aether is the perfect solution

just use aether in krypton bombardy 😉

[old wyvern]

Not yet I believe

[hot hull]

Isn't the C version OS?

[jovial warren]

god damn it I’ve already been found out

I mean what

[oblique heath]

lol

but if aether ever actually gets added to the minecraft jar

[jovial warren]

https://tenor.com/oZZh.gif

[oblique heath]

that kind of kills the market for performance forks

[jovial warren]

yeah

Aether could be the Krypton killer

[oblique heath]

imo the only reason people get performance forks is to raise the ceiling for # of players

[jovial warren]

it is

factually

[oblique heath]

so even if (and im sure people can) further optimize the future aether minecraft jar

[old wyvern]

Aether is already being added

But might be for bedrock

[oblique heath]

people are going to care much much less than they do now

[old wyvern]

Not sure about the Java version

[jovial warren]

like they’ll add Aether to Java though

lol

[oblique heath]

they better

[jovial warren]

if Java gets Aether, that could kill Paper

[oblique heath]

it'll finally convince people to switch from 1.8

maybe

[jovial warren]

I think Paper would be happy though that they aren’t needed anymore

[old wyvern]

Probably not

Paper depends on the "vanilla" server

[jovial warren]

true

[old wyvern]

And I assume Mojang has no plans to suppourt plugins/extensions properly

[jovial warren]

yeah

[old wyvern]

so if anything , it would improve paper by a large margin

[jovial warren]

hopefully, Aether support would spark a rewrite from scratch

[oblique heath]

careful what you wish for

last time we got a rewrite from scratch we ended up with... bedrock

[jovial warren]

then Bukkit could be discontinued and superceded

[jovial warren]

true

[jovial warren]

I mean the API could be rewritten and work 100x better

and it would hopefully kill the market for MCM Spigot forks

which would be a day I would kill to see

[old wyvern]

Java version is slowly being rewritten

[jovial warren]

yeah ik

[old wyvern]

Like World related stuff in 1.13

[oblique heath]

at the end of the day, all i want is to be able to run a single 500 player cap server on a 2011 rack server

[old wyvern]

That probably wont happen Ivan

[oblique heath]

😠

[old wyvern]

Even aether uses distributed servers I think

[oblique heath]

distributed... servers?

as in, more than one physical server?

[old wyvern]

Yes

[oblique heath]

that's... even BETTER

i can run a 5000 player cap server on 10 2011 rack servers

[old wyvern]

I doubt that

but yea, its nice

[oblique heath]

running a single server across more than one machine is the ideal

you have literally infinite room for growth

assuming no cap elsewhere

you can rack up a 10k charge on AWS in order to get a few thousand shards for your 50k pop minecraft server SMP world

[jovial warren]

where they rewrote chunk loading and made it worse, ik, I remember aikar saying

it uses an FJP-style thread pool iirc

but it’s terrible

[oblique heath]

then fix it 🤷‍♂️

[jovial warren]

1.13 was probably one of the most unstable Minecraft releases in the history of Minecraft

[oblique heath]

yeah it crushed the max server pop

not to mention the api changes

[old wyvern]

Notch > Microsoft Devs ??? 😮

[stuck harbor]

no

wrong

very incorrect

[jovial warren]

Notch > Jeb maybe

[oblique heath]

Notch == Mircosoft Devs < dkim

DKIM

[jovial warren]

because JE is still lead by Jens Bergensten

[stuck harbor]

stonks

well

meh

[old wyvern]

And yet it was better when Notch lead 😌

[jovial warren]

well, no

[old wyvern]

.

[jovial warren]

Notch thought that 1 chunk per file was good enough

[oblique heath]

well back then it probably was

[old wyvern]

Thing is, this kinda just randomly blew up if you think about it

[jovial warren]

MCRegion fixed that (originally a mod, just shows that Mojang is useless)

[old wyvern]

It was not made with the plan to be the most played game

[jovial warren]

true

[old wyvern]

It was just a random side project that the dude was working on

And it just so seemed to be something everyone liked

a bit too much

[jovial warren]

but you would’ve thought that you would at least rewrite the code when it becomes insufficient

[stuck harbor]

mhm that would be sensible

[old wyvern]

If it became large enough, rewriting might just not be worth it

Especially for a small team

[stuck harbor]

rewrite in haxe:)

[jovial warren]

it’s fucking huge now

[old wyvern]

Technical debt should be taken care of from the start

[jovial warren]

also, they have Microsoft to get developers from

[old wyvern]

And they did 1.13 🙂

[jovial warren]

they have 0 excuses other than laziness

[old wyvern]

When did microsoft buy this anyway?

Right after 1.7 or something right?

[oblique heath]

long time ago

[old wyvern]

oh wait yea nvm

[jovial warren]

2014

[oblique heath]

7 years or something crazy

i think i was in 7th grade

oof

[jovial warren]

I can remember discussing it at primary school lol

[old wyvern]

20Actually yes

[jovial warren]

man that was a long time ago

[old wyvern]

it was 1.7

[jovial warren]

it was 2014

[oblique heath]

wait

where's 1.7.10

[jovial warren]

looks about right

[old wyvern]

1.8+ is after microsoft deal

See the trend?

😌

The issue is they used the wrong language

[jovial warren]

the new objectively superior combat changes

haskell circlejerk incoming

[old wyvern]

ofc

[prisma wave]

Haskell good?

[old wyvern]

Obviously

Haskell best

[prisma wave]

ofc

[jovial warren]

and ofc Haskell is what wakes BM up

ffs

[prisma wave]

I've been awake for ages

Just busy

But yeah

[jovial warren]

you actually gonna come and work on Krypton soon btw?

[prisma wave]

I'm always awake for Haskell

Maybe

[jovial warren]

if you are, please lmk beforehand so you don’t do something already being done lol

[old wyvern]

https://tenor.com/view/brain-zombies-zombie-apocalypse-zombie-aliens-gif-16512890

[prisma wave]

Average non Haskell user has 0 brains

Average Haskell user has approximately 450

[old wyvern]

True ^

[jovial warren]

lol

would be nice to see you get back on the commit history again BM

[oblique heath]

do I qualify as a haskell user

i want brains

[prisma wave]

Maybe

Do you comprehend MONADS???

[oblique heath]

no 😢

this lazy stuff is giving me a bit of a hard time

[prisma wave]

😫

[old wyvern]

Party Mitten

[oblique heath]

what do I do if i want to force a print before i ask for user input

[jovial warren]

just put a print before the user input?

[hot hull]

kek

[jovial warren]

yeah lol

[oblique heath]

this is the output ^

[old wyvern]

disable buffered input

[prisma wave]

lmao

[oblique heath]

ah

i was hoping that was not important

[jovial warren]

also, you heard it here guys

[prisma wave]

Doesn't COC have a comment saying DO NOT REMOVE?

[jovial warren]

a BMI over 14.9 is apparently fat

[oblique heath]

yeah but i figured they were saying it for their grading bot

[old wyvern]

Are you fat?

https://tenor.com/view/falling-off-chair-fall-tumble-fat-accident-gif-15958031

[jovial warren]

no

lol

Yugi wtf

[old wyvern]

Yea?

[oblique heath]

so hSetBuffering stdout NoBuffering just makes it so every print flushes as soon as it's run

is that how it works?

or i guess, removes the need to "flush" at all?

[jovial warren]

Yugi I’m in English, I don’t want to see that on my screen lol

[oblique heath]

how come this works with no complaints

but not this

i thought $ did the same thing as enclosing the left right side of the statement in parentheses

[lunar cypress]

no

it's the same as parens on the right

it's left associative by default

[oblique heath]

oh sorry i meant right

[lunar cypress]

I would guess two infix operators like that are a problem

because they're both functions that take left and right as inputs

[oblique heath]

i was wondering if it was because of the concantenation

[lunar cypress]

I can see how that could be confusing

yeah well, ++ is an infix operator

[oblique heath]

i swapped the rightmost $ for parentheses, still got an error

[lunar cypress]

same problem

[oblique heath]

what exactly about ++ being infix forces me to use parentheses in place of the left $

[lunar cypress]

as I said I'm not sure but I would guess that two infix operators next to each other aren't allowed

[oblique heath]

hmm

that sounds reasonable enough to me

[jovial warren]

I swear ++ is suffix notation

ah, no, this is Haskell

yeah that’s infix

[old wyvern]

What?

[jovial warren]

that thing you sent earlier

I was in English

[old wyvern]

What is that supposed to mean?

[jovial warren]

English class

I was in English class

I’m currently in Geography

[old wyvern]

oh

[jovial warren]

we never say the word “class” in the UK

well, not in this context

[old wyvern]

I was in English
just sounds out of any context

I was thinking it had something todo with discord's language settings

[jovial warren]

I’d say “I’m in English” where an American might say “I’m in English class” or “I’m in class”

[old wyvern]

we say with "class" here as well

[jovial warren]

yeah the UK is weird

@prisma wave @onyx loom this is a common thing across the country right?

[lunar cypress]

It's the same in German, but I didn't catch that either

well, "have" is more common then "be", so "I have English", but still

[prisma wave]

Sure

[stuck harbor]

tis common for me as well

ughhh

[stuck harbor]

no, its everyone else 😉

https://www.zdnet.com/google-amp/article/linus-torvalds-on-where-rust-will-fit-into-linux/

[half harness]

s so confusing, how does mc give packets to client without port forwarding?

[regal gale]

What does this mean though? Haven't opened IJ for a long time

[stuck harbor]

pfft

[old wyvern]

huh?

[half harness]

so

when u make mc server

u have to port forward

why not the client?

[stuck harbor]

what?

[half harness]

i prob sound so stupid rn

[stuck harbor]

your router recieves the external requests, right?

so u have to make 25565

send to the right machine

on the network

[half harness]

uhhhhhhhhhh i guess

[half harness]

wdym?

[stuck harbor]

well

so the client knows ur public ip

but that is for your entire LAN

[half harness]

really?

[stuck harbor]

yes

[half harness]

what if im not connected to internet

i have no ip?

[ocean quartz]

Duh

[stuck harbor]

correct

[sweet cipher]

How would you be on a server then?

[half harness]

ohhh

i thought it was unique

for each device

[stuck harbor]

when u change networks, u change ip

MAC addresses do that

[half harness]

oh

mac?

🍎

[stuck harbor]

no

MAC

not mac

[half harness]

oh

[ocean quartz]

Each device has a assigned local ip that the router takes care to link to the common public ip

[stuck harbor]

^

[half harness]

ic

so port forwarding just tells the correct computer?

[stuck harbor]

yes

[half harness]

then the client doesn't have to port forward

because it can just send the info back

i think

[stuck harbor]

the client can't port forward

that is impossible

the client cannot communicate with the server directly

it communicates with the router

[half harness]

wot

ohh

so the port

so that's why I can't port forward 25565 on multiple devices?

[stuck harbor]

yes

[half harness]

ohhhhhhhhh

[ocean quartz]

Imagine it as a mail delivery
The delivery man takes your package to your house, where you and your entire family live (share the same address) then it's up to your dad to give the package to the correct person in the house

[half harness]

and the mailbox is the router

and port forwarding is basically the dad

[ocean quartz]

Your dad in that case is the router

[half harness]

well yea

i meant the port forwarding port

of the router

wait what

[oblique heath]

clients open a random port on their end when talking to a server

if you think about it it doesnt matter what port a client uses

because they will just tell the server what it is

[half harness]

oh

[oblique heath]

the same is not true for the server port, the client needs to know that ahead of time

since the client goes to the server port first

[half harness]

okay 🙂

that makes sense why port forwarding has its name 😂

[stuck harbor]

now we have to explain XOR to dkim

😉

[half harness]

i thought it was just the firewall stuff

[half harness]

yes

i saw that in kt

[stuck harbor]

do you understand what an AND gate is?

[half harness]

gate?

[stuck harbor]

oh my

[half harness]

im assuming it's &&

[stuck harbor]

welp im not teaching u all of CS

[half harness]

lmao

isn't it &&?

[oblique heath]

firewalls generally dont care about outbound traffic

[stuck harbor]

mm

indeed

obv UFW can care if u make it

cause linux is too op pls nerf

[ocean quartz]

Logical gates 😋

[stuck harbor]

NAND

[half harness]

i mean ive heard of gates before

[oblique heath]

yea but there is no point for most cases

[half harness]

in minecraft redstone

[oblique heath]

why would you block outgoing traffic for your own pc lol

[ocean quartz]

Smh

[half harness]

o

[stuck harbor]

what if you accidentally send a virus

tho

[forest pecan]

who wants a jumpscare?

[oblique heath]

how would your firewall even know

[stuck harbor]

linux

knows all

[forest pecan]

nobody wants jumpscare?

😔

[oblique heath]

nu

[half harness]

ok ill just google xor

[stuck harbor]

no you won't understand it

[oblique heath]

xor says if the two bits are the same they cancel out and equal 0

[half harness]

The XOR operation preserves randomness, meaning that a random bit XORed with a non-random bit will result in a random bit. Multiple sources of potentially ...

nevermind

[oblique heath]

otherwise they are 1

[half harness]

[stuck harbor]

⊕ eeeee

[ocean quartz]

Dkim computer chips are nothing more than many logical gates

[stuck harbor]

but reaaallly smol

like 6nm

or 14 if ur an intel plebian

[oblique heath]

or 40 if you're living in 2011

[stuck harbor]

lol

we need to show bm some truth tables

not bm

dkim

man

[oblique heath]

-|>○-

[stuck harbor]

y'all have the same name

[oblique heath]

inverter

[stuck harbor]

mmmmmm

[oblique heath]

=|>- and gate

=D- or gate

[stuck harbor]

mm ascii

[oblique heath]

delish

[half harness]

um

[stuck harbor]

dkim google some truth tables

this is real computer science

😉

[forest pecan]

lmao truth tables are just basically drawing a table, then the value of a and b, and then the expression being evaluated

[stuck harbor]

mmhm

[ocean quartz]

Boolean algebra 😋

[half harness]

wot

isn't boolean just true/false

[stuck harbor]

as with everything

0 and 1

[ocean quartz]

Yes sir and you can do everything with that

[stuck harbor]

boolean algebra order of operations

its

Brackets

NOT

XOR

something something

i am a very prudent student

[ocean quartz]

Math i the binary level

[stuck harbor]

biiinary

binary > denary

[oblique heath]

one boolean yes
more than one boolean? yes but it gets tricky to calculate

like a&&b || !a && !b && c

[stuck harbor]

the hek are the symbols u are using

[oblique heath]

given all possible combinations of values for a,b,c you have to figure out if the expression is true or false

i'm using symbols dkim can understand

[half harness]

lol

[oblique heath]

normally it'd be ab + a'b'c

[stuck harbor]

(A.B)+(Ā)

solve

[half harness]

;-;

[ocean quartz]

Ah good times, i miss school

[oblique heath]

this is where truth tables come in

[stuck harbor]

lol

i do not

[half harness]

I'll uh... watch some youtube

[oblique heath]

you get a big table and fill in every possible combination and its result

[stuck harbor]

i have two discords open

shoot

[half harness]

wot

[forest pecan]

What is !!!!!!!!!!!true

[stuck harbor]

hmwhat

[forest pecan]

solve it

lol

[stuck harbor]

no

[half harness]

false

[oblique heath]

a boolean

[stuck harbor]

hehe

[old wyvern]

Someone whose really high on truth serum????!!

[forest pecan]

lol

[unkempt tangle]

wtf

microsoft is about to buy discord for 10bil

[stuck harbor]

yeah

yesterday's news man

[unkempt tangle]

😭

[onyx loom]

yes sir

[prisma wave]

yes sir

[half harness]

maybe sir

[jovial warren]

Wat

[unkempt tangle]

Senpai 😭

I started using Frida

But still no luck 😭

[jovial warren]

Stop being so ambiguous

There is no context there whatsoever

[unkempt tangle]

https://www.webrtc-experiment.com/Pluginfree-Screen-Sharing/#918250999394005

[stuck harbor]

ew

[unkempt tangle]

I need welp D;

why cant I access those libaries

[unkempt tangle]

https://i.imgur.com/OTSRrY2.png

What does that mean? Can't he himself load the lua files?

[jovial warren]

Anyone here think it's worth adding vanilla's crash reports to Krypton btw?

[forest pecan]

Does intellij automatically change html files when I edit the javadoc in my classes?

[jovial warren]

You gotta regenerate the docs lol

Those HTML files are generated by the Gradle Javadoc plugin

[forest pecan]

damn it

[hot hull]

so cross server communication, what's the best way to approach it, bare in mind I need to trigger events, and send data around

[obtuse gale]

welp hello

can i ask a question?

[hot hull]

yes

[jovial warren]

Depends

[prisma wave]

hello jeremy clarkson

[jovial warren]

There are many options

[obtuse gale]

So what is the line if I want to make a menu, for example: i have 3 sorts of unbreaking, 1,2,3. but i don't want that players can instantly buy unbreaking 3, I want them to first buy unbreaking 1, and then 2 and then 3. kinda like upgrades

[hot hull]

I presume you're asking about DeluxeMenus, if so, #general-plugins

[jovial warren]

I would recommend using Redis, Kafka or RabbitMQ over plugin messaging, since they are just better

Imo

[obtuse gale]

alright ty

[hot hull]

Bardy, plugin messaging was never even in question pog

link me RabbitMQ

[jovial warren]

Just google RabbitMQ lol

https://rabbitmq.com

It's a bit complex to understand at first, but the amount of features it has is ridiculous

You have the concept of users, virtual hosts, exchanges, routing keys, queues

It supports pub/sub and point to point

It uses an acknowledgement by default I think to ensure messages are received

[sweet cipher]

Are you using SlimeWorldManager Frosty?

[jovial warren]

And supports persisting messages if one of the workers goes down, so you don't lose them

[hot hull]

not using anything at the moment

[fluid river]

Hello;
How do you hide an enchantment of an item with DeluxeMenu?

[jovial warren]

#general-plugins

[fluid river]

Hop, sorry

[hot hull]

do people legit never read channel info ;C

[jovial warren]

Nope

Gl losing a message with RabbitMQ

[sweet cipher]

There should be a day everyone from here starts talking in #general-plugins

[ocean quartz]

I'd rather die

[jovial warren]

That would be funny lol

[hot hull]

tfw I'm support and never support anyone anymore

[jovial warren]

Lol

Maybe leaving the mini mods to it is a good idea

Also, you know what I hate the most when people ask for support?

What I'm going to call channel popularity hunting

When people post in the channels with people in them because they're impatient shits and won't wait for someone to answer them in the correct channel

[sweet cipher]

Hey I need help in #general-plugins

[jovial warren]

Looks like clip

[onyx loom]

looks nice 🙂

[jovial warren]

I mean, he has the right colour scheme

[half harness]

they don't

[ocean quartz]

NetBeans isn't even the worse part about that screenshot

[jovial warren]

Never used NetBeans

Looks like Eclipse lol

[half harness]

yo I'm not german

[jovial warren]

Lol

Lol

696969 seconds

Lol

[lunar cypress]

What exactly do you expect when you insult them with a slur...

[jovial warren]

NetBeans in 2021 is a curse

With all respect to the team behind NetBeans, it's good, but IntelliJ is better

[half harness]

translation?

translate plz

[lunar cypress]

Try to put yourself in the shoes of the streamer

I'd be annoyed as well if some know it all just came into my chat and insulted me for not using the right program

[half harness]

o

[jovial warren]

What the Americans like to call a "smart alec" lol

[old wyvern]

link

[lunar cypress]

I dont know this dude, ive been in his stream once though I think

Played coc

awful music

[forest pecan]

holy god i just made a big run

i just made jd

for all my classes

with class headers

it was so annoying

lol

[prisma wave]

double tap shift

Iirc

[obtuse gale]

@prisma wave is it your BIRTHDAY???

[lunar cypress]

I cannot because I don't know

[jovial warren]

Redis good

Redis as a key-value store is actually insane

Redis as a messaging service is decent

[ocean quartz]

Then why are you watching it?

[oblique heath]

gotta ask him why he's not using eclipse

or vi

[jovial warren]

Oml

If you use Lombok you might as well use Kotlin

Facts

[oblique heath]

is he

vaping

[hot hull]

Tell em to uninstall

[oblique heath]

or is that a bong

[half harness]

lol

[jovial warren]

Lol

[half harness]

what is a bong

[jovial warren]

Oml

[lunar cypress]

it's a shisha

[jovial warren]

Bong is the word I'm familiar with

[lunar cypress]

dunno if that's the english word though

we wouldn't call that a bong

[jovial warren]

Basically a thing you use to smoke

Like smoke weed

[oblique heath]

smoke weed, right

[lunar cypress]

bruh

no

[jovial warren]

Ah right

[oblique heath]

if it's not weed then it's not a bong

what is he smoking then

[lunar cypress]

yeah

[jovial warren]

What the fuck is that