dev-general

[cinder flare]

make JS 2.0

[jovial warren]

lol

[unkempt tangle]

https://i.imgur.com/gqM8B4I.png

[prisma wave]

Same reason ancient java stuff still exists

[autumn tapir]

if you just try

[unkempt tangle]

Best buddies

[cinder flare]

and I'll actually appreciate it

[lunar cypress]

https://github.com/denysdovhan/wtfjs explanations

[prisma wave]

That's typescript

[autumn tapir]

if you just avoid it

you don't have the problem

and TS can handle type coercion

[cinder flare]

function foobar() {
    var bar = 10;
    //
    // [...Code...]
    //
    baz = 20; // Typo. "baz" is now a global variable.
}```

[autumn tapir]

by giving you a type error

modern editors like VScode are fine

[jovial warren]

I swear TS is really verbose though

[autumn tapir]

Use let and const

[eternal compass]

so how do I build the jar with dependancies in gradle?

[prisma wave]

No more verbose than any other static language

[autumn tapir]

If you just never use var or plain =

Then you'll be fine

Just avoid older features that are bad

[jovial warren]

again, shouldn't have to do that just to guarantee safety

[cinder flare]

mmm language features I shouldn't use

[autumn tapir]

And it's fine

[autumn tapir]

Backwards compatibility, not much the ycan do

[autumn tapir]

Java has ancient stuff too

[prisma wave]

java has a few of those too

[cinder flare]

function foobar(a) {
    if(a === 0) {
        var c = 20;
    }
    return c; // c is still visible.
}```

[lunar cypress]

@autumn tapir you still haven't answered the question, what counts as "math-related"? or what limit does that impose?

[jovial warren]

yeah Java has loads of ancient stuff that just shouldn't be used

[autumn tapir]

I'm not sure, I haven't looked too much into the turing test

[prisma wave]

{{}} syntax

assert

[cinder flare]

yeah but you don't run into too many in daily use, someone first learning javascript would think to use var pretty quick

[autumn tapir]

let, and you're done

[lunar cypress]

the turing test has nothing to do with turing machines

[prisma wave]

maybe if they're taking a chronically outdated course

[jovial warren]

function foobar(a) {
    if (a === 0) var c = 20;
    return c;
}
```https://tenor.com/view/smart-thinking-thoughts-think-ponder-gif-7713620

[lunar cypress]

or turing completeness

[autumn tapir]

alr, my bad

[cinder flare]

im sure let still has that scoping issue

[eternal compass]

also, where does it compile the shadowJar to?

[autumn tapir]

@cinder flare It doesn't actually

let only exists in the block

[prisma wave]

build/libs

[cinder flare]

[5, 12, 9, 2, 18, 1, 25].sort(); // [1, 12, 18, 2, 25, 5, 9]

mmmm

sorting

[lunar cypress]

turing completeness means your language can encode any computation

[jovial warren]

I could probably guarantee that I probably abuse Kotlin the most lol

[eternal compass]

why is it called jar-version-all.jar? what does -all mean

[autumn tapir]

function foobar(a) {
    if(a === 0) {
        let c = 20;
    }
    return c; // error
}

[cinder flare]

probably all dependencies shaded in lol

[autumn tapir]

@cinder flare Just use a sort function

[jovial warren]

if (

[prisma wave]

it contains all the necessary libraries

[autumn tapir]

Or use lodash or smth

[cinder flare]

Sort function???

[eternal compass]

ah

[autumn tapir]

Yep

[cinder flare]

My first thought when the language provides a .sort is to use it!

[autumn tapir]

.sort((a, b) => a - b)

Very hard

[jovial warren]

sorted my ass

[cinder flare]

why would they not deprecate that then

I dont understand

[autumn tapir]

Backwards compatibility again

[cinder flare]

Who gives a single fuck

[autumn tapir]

All the older sites do

[cinder flare]

The internet literally sucks because of it

Web development is an archaic and painful process because of this shit

At least legacy Java code only affects the developers who have to maintain it

People still write javascript every day!

[prisma wave]

modern tools alleviate most of those issues though

[cinder flare]

I can't beleive it

[autumn tapir]

^

[jovial warren]

you know JS was rushed btw right?

[autumn tapir]

Modern tools alleviate em

[obtuse gale]

That's why 80% of the population suffers from depression

[autumn tapir]

Like VSC, ESLint, Typescript

[jovial warren]

it was originally just made because they needed something for web development

[lunar cypress]

https://www.stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks

[cinder flare]

var a = "foobar"
var b = typeof a                // 'string'
var c = a instanceof String     // false

typing go brrrr

[jovial warren]

ew JS uses instanceof too?

[prisma wave]

I personally believe coffeescript and jQuery are the future

[jovial warren]

man

[autumn tapir]

Typescript gives you a warning not to use String

[cinder flare]

let me guess, let will solve all my problems eh>?

[prisma wave]

Elara solves all problems

[cinder flare]

Oh wow TypeScript gives me a warning wow

[autumn tapir]

Modern tools in general do

[ocean quartz]

All code is bad
Very very true

[autumn tapir]

Actually TSC just gives you a compiler error

[cinder flare]

WHY does it not automatically not work like that

what the actual fuck is that

[autumn tapir]

Also JS should too

With VSCode

[cinder flare]

I don't want a compiler error I want the language to work how it is expected

[half harness]

wot

[autumn tapir]

Boom, error is now not working

[cinder flare]

You know how hard it would be to modernize javascript?

like, really not that hard

[autumn tapir]

I don't know how to spell lol

[cinder flare]

I could probably do it

[autumn tapir]

Again, backwards compatibility

[cinder flare]

Just strip out all the old shit and you're done

[autumn tapir]

You could probs make a transpiler tho

[cinder flare]

Leave JavaScript how it is

[autumn tapir]

JS with all the new features

[cinder flare]

never update it again

[autumn tapir]

And none of the shit ones

[cinder flare]

Make WebScript the official new language

with a committee that manages it

[prisma wave]

WASM

[cinder flare]

and sensible people to make the defualts

[autumn tapir]

Backwards compability again

JS isn't going anywhere

[cinder flare]

I know

[eternal compass]

ok, its converted to gradle. are y'all happy?

[autumn tapir]

And sure

[cinder flare]

But we don't build anything new with it

EVER

[autumn tapir]

Strip out the shit parts of JS

And nah, it's good

[cinder flare]

that would solve a lot of problems

[autumn tapir]

Just strip out the shit parts of JS if you want

[prisma wave]

Fun fact, iirc the JS maintainers actually intended to add static typing like TS has but they couldn't decide on a good design so scrapped the idea

[prisma wave]

Absolutely

[cinder flare]

I cannot fucking believe that

I am appalled

[autumn tapir]

JS is awesome

[jovial warren]

backwards compatibility is the #1 sin of modern programming and software development

change my mind

[autumn tapir]

As long as you don't try to misuse it purposely

[cinder flare]

There are so many pitfalls that shouldn't be there

It's insane how we still use this language

[autumn tapir]

Pitfalls that I never use

[cinder flare]

because you're used to the shithole you live in

[jovial warren]

backwards compatibility

[eternal compass]

lol

[autumn tapir]

@cinder flare Not really

As long as you don't purposely try to fuck it up

[jovial warren]

and backwards compatibility is built into humans

[autumn tapir]

You'll be fine

[cinder flare]

When you drive down a street with potholes for the thousandth time, you learn to avoi them

[autumn tapir]

I haven't had those problems at all

[cinder flare]

Doesn't mean the road isn't a shitty road that needs to be fixed

[lunar cypress]

nothing compared to php if you ask me

[ocean quartz]

This is the string color

[jovial warren]

we naturally hate the idea of change, and we'd much rather stick with what we know than try something new

[autumn tapir]

JS is fine

[cinder flare]

Bro I've literally written javascript and falled into these issues

[autumn tapir]

I'm done arguing lol

[cinder flare]

Oh don't get me started on PHP

[autumn tapir]

I write JS on a daily basis

Yeah fuck PH P

[prisma wave]

backwards compatibility isn't a sin, it's a necessary evil. It would be great from the developer's perspective if we could all use hot new technology #3819 but most programs are built to be used without frequent updates

[cinder flare]

can I get uh a hex value for that boss :)

[autumn tapir]

Fuck PHP

But JS is epic

[prisma wave]

PHP is without a doubt the worst commonly used language

[cinder flare]

Oh you don't like PHP but like JS?

[ocean quartz]

If you want to apply all the colors ;p

[jovial warren]

not bad

[cinder flare]

They're very similar in their downsides

[jovial warren]

did you actually call your theme matom one dark?

[cinder flare]

Im impressed you're not just fine with PHP because you know how to avoid all the problems?

[autumn tapir]

PHP is way worse

[cinder flare]

And I mean, I heard PHP 7 was pretty nice

[autumn tapir]

Modern JS is actually really good

[ocean quartz]

Nah, just named the file as a joke

[cinder flare]

They fixed a bunch of stuff

[autumn tapir]

Fair

[prisma wave]

PHP 7 seems ok

[stuck harbor]

https://xpressrazor.wordpress.com/2020/11/04/java-programming-in-emacs/ yay

[unkempt tangle]

Senpai 😭

[prisma wave]

But it's still PHP

[autumn tapir]

PHP has a pretty bad reputation tho

[cinder flare]

and JS is still JS

[unkempt tangle]

Why I cant set any Breakpoints

[autumn tapir]

And besides PHP was far worse then JS ever war

[prisma wave]

Quoi ?

[autumn tapir]

Old JS was shit

But now it has far better stuff

As long as you don't try to fuck up

JS is fine

[cinder flare]

Those two languages are forever locked in a shithole that they won't escape until they break their backwards compatability and we establish a new internet without JS

[autumn tapir]

Sure when you purposely do "1" + 1 and cast them both as any

[prisma wave]

Elaborate in #development

[unkempt tangle]

https://i.imgur.com/5Tse1dT.png

[prisma wave]

Chat is busy enough atm

[unkempt tangle]

I cant click htere

[jovial warren]

how do I import this @ocean quartz?

[prisma wave]

We need dev-general 2

[cinder flare]

lol

that seems like #development stuff to me

[autumn tapir]

Or just make JS remove its shit features

And keep JS

[prisma wave]

Is that... Bytecode?

[autumn tapir]

Just without the shitty parts

[cinder flare]

Yeah that'd be fine too

[unkempt tangle]

yes

[autumn tapir]

JS ain't perfect

[unkempt tangle]

smali

[cinder flare]

Though the public reputation loss would probably haunt it for years to come

[autumn tapir]

but it's still my fav lang

[cinder flare]

I'd go with a new name

[jovial warren]

go to #development, too busy in here atm lol

[autumn tapir]

VSCode itself handles most of my errors

[cinder flare]

Maybe get away from Java too, if you wanna be modern and all

[autumn tapir]

And I just use newer features

Sure

But what would it be

LiveScript?

[cinder flare]

I dunno, anything

[inner umbra]

tried there message was above view in 3 secs lol

[cinder flare]

WebScript maybe

[unkempt tangle]

Guys be quiet

[prisma wave]

you probably can't debug bytecode

[unkempt tangle]

Senpai tries to help me

[prisma wave]

You'll need the src

[autumn tapir]

Actually @cinder flare

[unkempt tangle]

Huh

[cinder flare]

other channels exist 🙂

[autumn tapir]

You could just make a tool today

That strips out shit parts of JS

[half harness]

lol

[autumn tapir]

And only keeps the good parts

[unkempt tangle]

But the guide I told me

[cinder flare]

like ones specificlaly for helping people! #development

[autumn tapir]

It'd be easy to transpile since you're just stripping out the shit parts

[unkempt tangle]

https://kov4l3nko.github.io/blog/2018-01-25-debugging-mixed-android-code/

[autumn tapir]

Without a hassle

So

🤷‍♂️

[cinder flare]

Bro do it

[half harness]

the sPAM

[cinder flare]

Bet

I'd use it

[jovial warren]

post it there and I'll see if I can help

[half harness]

theres like a message sent every second

[autumn tapir]

I'd rather work on my plugin rn

[cinder flare]

Lol

[unkempt tangle]

https://kov4l3nko.github.io/blog/2018-01-25-debugging-mixed-android-code/inspect-change.png

[autumn tapir]

I've got enough other projects too

[unkempt tangle]

See he also does it

[autumn tapir]

Maybe tho

[cinder flare]

ew wtf light theme

[ocean quartz]

Ahhhhhhh

[inner umbra]

#development message

[prisma wave]

That's typescript

[cinder flare]

hmmm okay

[jovial warren]

Matt

how do I import that theme

[prisma wave]

Maybe you need a plugin

[cinder flare]

i do like static typing

[prisma wave]

typescript is nice

A little bit overcomplicated imo

[cinder flare]

I just feel there's lots of room for improvements, ya know?

Like WASM, for instance

[prisma wave]

But most of it was probably because of design limitations

WASM is definitely intriguing

[lunar cypress]

wasm will not replace js

[autumn tapir]

WASM is to be used alongside js

[prisma wave]

Yeah

[cinder flare]

I don't see why WASM wouldn't replace JS

The second we can throw JS to the curb, I plan on doing it

[prisma wave]

Probably too complicated for everyday use

[autumn tapir]

I don't think it replaces all features of JS either

Just helps with a lot of optimizations

[prisma wave]

If you're just manipulating the DOM a bit then use JS or TS

[unkempt tangle]

The most common language cant be replaced if there are no newbie documentaries.

[ocean quartz]

Aren't things supposed to compile to WASM? That means it won't replace anything but things will adapt to use it together with what they already use

[unkempt tangle]

newbie documantary == stackoverflow example codes

[prisma wave]

Yeah

Rust compiles to WASM 🙂

[lunar cypress]

Is WebAssembly trying to replace JavaScript?
No! WebAssembly is designed to be a complement to, not replacement of, JavaScript. While WebAssembly will, over time, allow many languages to be compiled to the Web, JavaScript has an incredible amount of momentum and will remain the single, privileged (as described above) dynamic language of the Web. Furthermore, it is expected that JavaScript and WebAssembly will be used together in a number of configurations:

• Whole, compiled C++ apps that leverage JavaScript to glue things together.
• HTML/CSS/JavaScript UI around a main WebAssembly-controlled center canvas, allowing developers to leverage the power of web frameworks to build accessible, web-native-feeling experiences.
• Mostly HTML/CSS/JavaScript app with a few high-performance WebAssembly modules (e.g., graphing, simulation, image/sound/video processing, visualization, animation, compression, etc., examples which we can already see in asm.js today) allowing developers to reuse popular WebAssembly libraries just like JavaScript libraries today.
• When WebAssembly gains the ability to access garbage-collected objects 🦄, those objects will be shared with JavaScript, and not live in a walled-off world of their own.

[prisma wave]

If you want a modern language to replace JS, use TS or Elm

[ocean quartz]

I think the 1.5 Kotlin compiler already does some compilation to WASM as well

[prisma wave]

Elm in particular is intriguing

[lunar cypress]

Elm :kekw:

[prisma wave]

Haskell on the web

[cinder flare]

Kotlin compiles to JS lol

Okay Elm lookin kinda cute

[ocean quartz]

I know, was talking about straight to WASM

[lunar cypress]

ClojureScript is obviously the way to go

[half harness]

what is WASM?

[ocean quartz]

#dev-general message

[cinder flare]

Web Assembly

[hot hull]

Matt

Chat when

[cinder flare]

basically any language other than JS running in a web browser

[jovial warren]

Matt

[prisma wave]

Oh yeah sorry I forgot that existed

[half harness]

what is "SM"?

[jovial warren]

how do I import your theme

[cinder flare]

ASM = assembly

[prisma wave]

ASseMbly

[cinder flare]

W = Web

[ocean quartz]

Soon, working on it again

[jovial warren]

what kind of library is that?

please don't tell me that's an attempt to make something different from Adventure

[lunar cypress]

WebAssembly - the standard that's neither web nor assembly

[jovial warren]

like a chat component library

[half harness]

its a plugin

chat plugin

[hot hull]

What you smoking again Bardy

[half harness]

like deluxechat

[jovial warren]

ah right

[half harness]

i think

[jovial warren]

well idk, I know you don't (for whatever strange reason) like Adventure

[hot hull]

https://github.com/TriumphTeam/chat

[ocean quartz]

Idk what you smoking, but can I have some?

[prisma wave]

Elm is hot

[half harness]

lowercase repo name 🤢

[prisma wave]

Never used it but it looks hot

[hot hull]

Yea same lol

[prisma wave]

Haskell on the web

[jovial warren]

uppercase repo name 🤢

[hot hull]

Aaa miss clicked the turn of ping

[cinder flare]

and to think, I don't even know Haskell!

boy am I in for a world of hurt

[half harness]

uppercase username 🤢

[jovial warren]

repos should be the name of the Gradle project imo

which should be snake_case

[hot hull]

life, happines, sense of security 🤢

[jovial warren]

actually no

project names should be whatever-case-this-is

[lunar cypress]

lisp-case

[half harness]

why do i have a lowercase username

[jovial warren]

Matt ffs

how do I import your theme

for like the 5th time lol

[hot hull]

@cinder flare I believe you're new here right?

[jovial warren]

I tried importing it with Material Theme, but it doesn't seem to recognise it as XML

[cinder flare]

Depends

What are you trying to say about me hmm

[half harness]

blitz told me before

but i forgot

[hot hull]

OS or CS

[half harness]

cs ftw

[hot hull]

Dkim

Die

[jovial warren]

OH there

[cinder flare]

Like, my major?

[half harness]

i was joking

lol

[jovial warren]

OS

[hot hull]

No, Open Sourced or Closed Source

[cinder flare]

is that even a question lmao

[jovial warren]

open-source >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proprietary

[cinder flare]

open source is objectively superior

[jovial warren]

objectively

[hot hull]

Okay good I like you already

[half harness]

open source > closed source

[jovial warren]

good boy dkim

[half harness]

what about me 😭

[cinder flare]

Im gonna disclose something fully, I was very active on here about 2.5 years ago

[jovial warren]

you're learning

[prisma wave]

Haskell best language

[cinder flare]

And I think I vaguely remember you geting Helpful lol

[half harness]

👀 🙂

[hot hull]

I can't remember last week so don't even bother trying to remind me who you are

[cinder flare]

Haha

[half harness]

lol

[jovial warren]

won't show up as a file I can import since it's not .xml

it's literally not there

no cap

https://i.imgur.com/pirnbs8.png

[ocean quartz]

Actually oops, it's the one above, color scheme not code style

[stuck harbor]

yes SPC p p

u have smol SPC p p

[jovial warren]

EW what font size is that

how

even I don't have eyesight that bad

jesus christ Matt

[ocean quartz]

Monitor size nerd

[jovial warren]

18?!?!

this actually isn't that bad

[cinder flare]

If you like open source, tell me you've heard of my boy Luke Smith

[jovial warren]

doesn't match the rest of my Atom OneDark theme though -_-

[ocean quartz]

And I keep changing size based on file, that just happened to be 18 when I created the file

[jovial warren]

you got a OneDark copy that matches this?

[ocean quartz]

Wdym it doesn't match?

[jovial warren]

https://i.imgur.com/ExDwYqo.png

[ocean quartz]

Wtf is wrong with your atom one dark?

[jovial warren]

I got the one from Material Theme

I also got the separate plugin

which one you got?

[cinder flare]

not gonna lie, kinda miss a different colored menu

[ocean quartz]

Material one

[cinder flare]

https://i.imgur.com/Ja4RNfj.png

[jovial warren]

also, imagine not having compact sidebar

wtf

why do I have whatever tf this is

[ocean quartz]

No idea

[cinder flare]

bro your sidebar is like 2x bigger than ours lmao

[jovial warren]

https://i.imgur.com/e74lwEv.png

[jovial warren]

wat

I have compact sidebar on

because not having compact sidebar and compact tabs on is 🤮

[cinder flare]

i dunno what to say boss

i did the measurements and your left sidebar is like 2x bigger than ours

[jovial warren]

ah, I had the white logo atom onedark on

lemme see what this looks like with the pink one

[cinder flare]

ew

[jovial warren]

there we go

[cinder flare]

the material icons confuse me heavily ngl

[jovial warren]

not sure about italic types

[cinder flare]

ooh dude the italic functions and stuff slaps

[jovial warren]

or at least, italic interfaces

[cinder flare]

https://i.imgur.com/eHQL039.png

mmmmmmm

like butter

[jovial warren]

man

[cinder flare]

https://i.imgur.com/W3kq6RO.png

[jovial warren]

import static java.time.temporal.ChronoUnit.*

ez

[cinder flare]

oh yeah

not my code

[lunar cypress]

static wildcard import 🤢

[ocean quartz]

Ew wildcard imports

[jovial warren]

and anyone who says wildcard imports are bad, for enums I disagree especially

gimme one good reason why wildcard imports bad

[cinder flare]

it just be like that

• big scary

despite the fact that, my name is, in fact, star

[jovial warren]

because I've never had a problem with them

[lunar cypress]

because scope pollution

[jovial warren]

wat dis

[unkempt tangle]

I got it

[prisma wave]

polluting the scope

[cinder flare]

thoughts on using namespace in C++

[unkempt tangle]

You needs SmaliIdea for debugging smali

[prisma wave]

Ahh

[unkempt tangle]

https://github.com/JesusFreke/smalidea

[prisma wave]

makes sense

[jovial warren]

wat dis

[prisma wave]

Filling the scope with stuff that isn't needed everywhere

[lunar cypress]

depends on the context

[cinder flare]

mmk mmk

[ocean quartz]

I have my settings for wildcards pretty high

[cinder flare]

if you're a hater of scope pollution, a lot of people hate using namespace for the same reason lol

[jovial warren]

for enums though, if you're using every value, wildcard imports are a good idea

[prisma wave]

although I don't personally think scope pollution is necessarily a bad thing

[lunar cypress]

yeah globally it's decried

but you can use using locally as well

[jovial warren]

I just let default IJ settings figure out what's best for my imports

[cinder flare]

mmm putting using in my .h file go brrrrr

[jovial warren]

I haven't changed any of those sorts of settings

[cinder flare]

yeah honestly, jetbrains knows better than me at this point ngl

[jovial warren]

oh btw, ItemStack good name for an item stack in an inventory right?

one of the things Bukkit did good

and might also do a Bukkit and shove that in the inventory package

[cinder flare]

wow, common abstractions? very impressive 👏

[unkempt tangle]

Senpai

https://www.webrtc-experiment.com/Pluginfree-Screen-Sharing/#3562021959411907

welp me here

[prisma wave]

functional abstractions

[ocean quartz]

Or do like ktor, they have everything as wildcard import

[half harness]

welp you?

[jovial warren]

oh also, this theme has reminded me that I need to disable name checking

because it puts a really big and annoying yellow line underneath every word not spelt correctly

[ocean quartz]

Just write well then duh

[half harness]

you should update windows

n3w0rk

[jovial warren]

oh yeah, because writing the word PUFFERFISH is incorrect

and ENDER

MINECART

[prisma wave]

Haskell doesn't have this issue

[cinder flare]

Does the Haskell IDE have spellcheck? lmao

[jovial warren]

oh btw, ```kotlin
MUSIC_DISC_11,
MUSIC_DISC_13,
MUSIC_DISC_BLOCKS,
MUSIC_DISC_CAT,
MUSIC_DISC_CHIRP,
MUSIC_DISC_FAR,
MUSIC_DISC_MALL,
MUSIC_DISC_MELLOHI,
MUSIC_DISC_PIGSTEP,
MUSIC_DISC_STAL,
MUSIC_DISC_STRAD,
MUSIC_DISC_WAIT,
MUSIC_DISC_WARD,

[half harness]

seems fine

imo

[jovial warren]

those are what I named the music discs in ItemType

[half harness]

TYpe

[unkempt tangle]

senpai i need ur welp

[cinder flare]

that uh, seems like the names of the music discs yeah

[jovial warren]

    BANNER_PATTERN_CREEPER_CHARGE,
    BANNER_PATTERN_FLOWER_CHARGE,
    BANNER_PATTERN_GLOBE,
    BANNER_PATTERN_SKULL_CHARGE,
    BANNER_PATTERN_SNOUT,
    BANNER_PATTERN_THING,
```and these for the banner patterns

the only thing I'm really questioning is putting the name of the pattern after the word BANNER_PATTERN

oh btw, is scute a 1.16 thing?

[half harness]

y not just BANNER_THING

and BANNER_GLOBE

etc

[jovial warren]

please tell me I haven't missed yet another one of those wiki puts 1.17 items in the item list when 1.17 isn't released yet

[forest pecan]

scutes exist in 1.16

[jovial warren]

I was gonna say

[forest pecan]

its used for turtle master potions

and the turtle shell helmet

very useful

👌

[jovial warren]

oh also, https://paste.helpch.at/ahuravonir.m this is the full items enum btw

what do you guys think?

[cinder flare]

I like how CARROT and CARROT_ON_A_STICK are all red

Oh and also CLAY_BALL

those are my thoughts

[jovial warren]

it's recognising it as whatever .m is

ah, MATLAB

[forest pecan]

lmao

[jovial warren]

also, how tf can you have a "proprietary programming language"

[cinder flare]

you make your own language wdym

JetBrains has a whole program for just that

[jovial warren]

surely people will just buy it and leak it

[cinder flare]

Not for sale silly

[jovial warren]

what's it for?

[cinder flare]

Just for internal use in your company or something

[forest pecan]

private uses

[jovial warren]

ah right

[forest pecan]

not always for marketing

[cinder flare]

To keep your proprietary tools and scripts proprietary

[forest pecan]

or for curiosity

lol

tbh, you can just use a license on the header of the file

[jovial warren]

I would never use a proprietary programming language lol

[forest pecan]

which states its propietary

[cinder flare]

you probably wouldn't be allowed to lol

[jovial warren]

oh also, why tf is ItemStack mutable

what the fuck Bukkit

[stuck harbor]

how would one make the shadowJar task run before the build task in gradle?

[cinder flare]

in case you want to change what itemstack it is, silly

put defaultTasks 'clean', 'build' at the top of your proj

then click on shadowJar

and it'll run all three in order

@stuck harbor

[jovial warren]

I'm gonna just use a data class, since a lot of this is immutable due to asynchronous thingies

[lunar cypress]

ew

[unkempt tangle]

Anyone welp ;C

[jovial warren]

things like vectors and locations are immutable lol

[stuck harbor]

i cant just do gradle shadowJar

the command has to be gradle build

[half harness]

so that u can modify the item

[cinder flare]

bruh what

[jovial warren]

the only thing I gotta worry about is the amount of objects on the heap

[cinder flare]

well did you do what I said

it should execute those steps after shadowJar

[jovial warren]

they use data classes, all of the operator functions call copy lol

[lunar cypress]

tasks {
    getByName("build") {
        dependsOn("shadowJar")
    }
}```

[cinder flare]

that sounds like extra work for no reason

[stuck harbor]

ah thanks

[prisma wave]

kotlin dsl 🤢

[jovial warren]

immutability is key to at least somewhat guarantee asynchronous safety

[cinder flare]

who cares if my random location modification is asynchronous

asynchronousness comes at a cost of performance usually

[jovial warren]

not if you do it right

[cinder flare]

and especially when it's unnecessary, like why

[lunar cypress]

this is almost exactly the same as groovy, dum dum

[jovial warren]

Krypton uses coroutines

[cinder flare]

Most of the time you don't want it to be async-safe

[prisma wave]

yes but its kotlin

[jovial warren]

coroutines are really lightweight and really performant

[prisma wave]

🙂

[cinder flare]

Not as performant as straight-up code

Which you most of the time don't need or want asynchronous anyways

[jovial warren]

er... only taking advantage of a single core is the main reason why vanilla is shit

[cinder flare]

tell me, how often have you changed a location from multiple threads?

[jovial warren]

in Bukkit, not very often

[prisma wave]

i run every line of code on a separate thread

it's faster trust me bro

[jovial warren]

in Krypton though, where you have no idea what coroutine a player or world may be allocated to, it could happen more often than you think

[cinder flare]

haha

[cinder flare]

concurrency, and all that waves hands

[prisma wave]

multithreading has no known downsides

[jovial warren]

^

[cinder flare]

that just sounds like, way more complicated than it needs to be

[jovial warren]

how?

you ain't making any sense

[prisma wave]

tfw sarcasm 🥲

[cinder flare]

why put players and worlds on random coroutines?

[jovial warren]

to allow for them to be distributed better amongst the more than one core a CPU has

[cinder flare]

that can definitely be synchronous

who cares how they're distributed

players do not make up a majority of usage

worldgen does

and mob ai does

[ocean quartz]

Just Bukkit.getScheduler().runTaskAsynchronously() on every block of code duh

[jovial warren]

I mean, we use Netty anyway, so that's already async

and chunk loading is async

[cinder flare]

most things definitely can be singlethreaded

[forest pecan]

+1

[prisma wave]

f# async block

[jovial warren]

meh

not sure about that

[forest pecan]

in fact dont just do that, wrap an async in an async block

[prisma wave]

let task = async { printfn "hello from async" }

[cinder flare]

list me some things that should be multithreaded

worldgen, mob ai

what else

[jovial warren]

sending chunk data

[forest pecan]

world modification

well oops

nope

dont do that

lmao

[jovial warren]

so you don't have to wait ages when you join to receive all of the packets you need

[ocean quartz]

let task be async { print the fn "hello from async" }

[prisma wave]

hello world plugin needs at least 3 different thread switches to be efficient

[cinder flare]

okay we got 3 things

you certainly don't want redstone asynchronous

[jovial warren]

why not?

[cinder flare]

unpredictable behaviour ring a bell?

[jovial warren]

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just curious

[cinder flare]

that's why the bedrock async redstone is fucking terrible

certain things should definitely be executed in the order they arrive in

[forest pecan]

bedrock redstone sucks

lmao

[cinder flare]

^^

[forest pecan]

its not just the code, the whole

damn system

is just garbo

[jovial warren]

yeah Bedrock redstone sucks

[prisma wave]

this is very entertaining

[jovial warren]

BM you gotta help listing things that should be async

[prisma wave]

its like watching johnny and sx argue discuss things back in the day

[jovial warren]

lighting

[jovial warren]

man, I think I missed that

[cinder flare]

im doing my part to put on the show ❤️

[prisma wave]

i appreciate it

[jovial warren]

lighting should be async

[cinder flare]

well yeah lighting can be, don't really matter too much

[prisma wave]

arguments with clever people make my day

[cinder flare]

in fact, why not just make clients render lighting themselves

they already basically do

[jovial warren]

no way

no

no

[cinder flare]

why not?

[prisma wave]

or people that think theyre clever when theyre actually dumb, thats the best

like that bomp fellow

[cinder flare]

that's what im going for

[jovial warren]

you haven't seen what happens when you send chunk data packets before lighting update packets

the client almost crashes

no cap

[cinder flare]

but I mean

[half harness]

lol there are like 5 hours of the day where helpchat is just spammm

[jovial warren]

trust me, I made that mistake

[cinder flare]

why even send lighting packets

haha

[prisma wave]

you seem to actually know what you're talking about though

[cinder flare]

just like, the bare minimum to scrape by haha

[jovial warren]

the client almost crashes

[prisma wave]

this guy was telling me my POJO needed to be immutable for thread safety in bukkit

[cinder flare]

eyyy

[jovial warren]

https://tenor.com/uhfw.gif

thread safety? Bukkit?

[cinder flare]

well okay but like, if it didn't

[jovial warren]

what kinda planet is he living on?

[prisma wave]

and that its possible to use a hashmap incorrectly or something

[jovial warren]

it does though, so I gotta calculate lighting myself

[cinder flare]

im saying that there isn't even a reason to send lighting data lol

[jovial warren]

will probably use Tuinity's standalone engine tbh

[cinder flare]

like, we're talking theoreticals here

[half harness]

isnt this the 3rd time today u sent that gif

[jovial warren]

oh also, https://github.com/Spottedleaf/Starlight/blob/fabric/src/main/java/ca/spottedleaf/starlight/common/blockstate/ExtendedAbstractBlockState.java talk about Enterprise naming that doesn't even work

[jovial warren]

https://tenor.com/bn3HM.gif

[cinder flare]

I don't like how many words are in that name that mean very little

[jovial warren]

it's not even an abstract class

you can't put Abstract in the name if it ain't abstract

use I instead lol

[cinder flare]

what if you just pretend it's abstract huh?

[jovial warren]

https://github.com/Spottedleaf/Starlight/blob/fabric/src/main/java/ca/spottedleaf/starlight/common/chunk/ExtendedChunk.java omfg what is that mess

[cinder flare]

i mean, technically interfaces are just abstract classes where all the methods are abstract and you're allowed to have multiple of them

[jovial warren]

okay maybe I should rewrite this in Kotlin

or better yet, just write my own lighting engine from scratch

🥲

okay yeah I ain't using this

public final int x;

[cinder flare]

bro just like, code the whole game from scratch at this point

if you're being done with things for being poorly coded lmao

[jovial warren]

what do you think Krypton is lol

apart from a fun project of mine

also, this uses fastutil

[cinder flare]

nah not just the server bro

the whole game

toss out java, it's trash

spigot? never heard of it

minecraft forge? sounds like a kid's toy

[jovial warren]

lol

[prisma wave]

agree

ditch the JVM

[jovial warren]

nah I ain't doing a Hypixel

fuck that

I don't make games because they require creativity

[cinder flare]

i mean, copying minecraft bit for bit would not require creativity

[jovial warren]

I'm making the server because everything I need is already there for me

[lunar cypress]

on a completely different note

this benchmark is going to be huge

[jovial warren]

what benchmark

[lunar cypress]

I reckon it will take like half a day to execute

my persistent collections benchmark

[prisma wave]

lmao

rent out a supercomputer from azure or something

for a few hours

[cinder flare]

mmm azure

this is an AWS household sir

im sorry to inform you

and we don't stan GCP

god I hate GCP

actually azure is okay

just not GCP

[lunar cypress]

I would run it on my vps but I think it's too cheap to not be a bottleneck

[cinder flare]

and OVH kinda blew up so oof

[static zealot]

still waiting for my vps 😦

[lunar cypress]

I think I'm going to upgrade my VPS

1 € more for 2 extra cores and 4 more gb of ram seems reasonable

[eternal compass]

is it possible to post a new file without bumping your resource on spigot?

I made a mistake, but its not bad enough that I want to bump it / make people re-download it

[static zealot]

I think you can update the jar without updating the whole thing. I'm not sure tho

wait what file?

[eternal compass]

the jar

[static zealot]

they'll still have to download it tho

[eternal compass]

I converted to Gradle, so the version string was just ${project.version} instead of @version@

and I just want to reset the jar file

not bump it or anything

[static zealot]

nvm you can't

[prisma wave]

Is that with contabo still?

[lunar cypress]

yeah

I have literally the cheapest deal you can get there

[jovial warren]

Kotlin good Java bad

objectively

[eternal compass]

because #development is overrun, anyone know how I might add my project version to my plugin.yml via gradle? @version@ doesn't work

[ocean quartz]

You need a replace tokens thingy

[eternal compass]

ahh I see that

ty

uhhh
Cannot resolve symbol 'org'

[jovial warren]

processResource {
    filter ReplaceTokens, tokens: ["version": project.version.toString()]
}

ez

import org.apache.tools.ant.filters.ReplaceTokens

[eternal compass]

I did that

import org.apache.tools.ant.filters.ReplaceTokens

[jovial warren]

if you're using shadowJar

[eternal compass]

I am

[static zealot]

try refreshing gradle

[eternal compass]

ah, I did that

seems to have fixed it

[static zealot]

yeah I had that happen to me too once

[eternal compass]

and is it possible to update a published jar without updating the resource?

[static zealot]

no

I thought it is but I just double checked

and you can't

[eternal compass]

sad

well, time to bump my plugin for the third time in 2 days lol

[static zealot]

that's why you test it before uploading

[eternal compass]

I did

[prisma wave]

Yeah same, it's insanely good value

[eternal compass]

I just didn't check the plugin version

[prisma wave]

Actually mine might be second cheapest

[eternal compass]

I only noticed because of bstats

[lunar cypress]

you have the 5€ one right

[prisma wave]

Yup

[lunar cypress]

yeah that's what I'm upgrading to

[prisma wave]

Ah right

The cheaper one is like €3.99 right?

[lunar cypress]

yeah

It's has more storage but that's it

they have like two branches, one for computational power and one for storage

and I don't really need either lol

until now...

[prisma wave]

haha

The €5 deal is amazing for what you're getting

[lunar cypress]

absolutely, I have yet to see a better deal for that power

[prisma wave]

Yeah even that ?vps-best-deal doesn't come close

[static zealot]

vps-best-deal is like 6/mo

[lunar cypress]

The only downside some people have mentioned (though I personally haven't had issues with it) is the internet connection apparently

[prisma wave]

Although contabo seems to have a fairly poor reputation here for some reason

Yeah I've never had any issues either

[lunar cypress]

?best-vps-deal

[compact perch]

FAQ Answer:

https://my.hostus.us/cart.php?a=add&pid=64

Requested by: Johnny • best-vps-deal

[lunar cypress]

yeah the contabo one is 5 and you get 2 gb more memory

[prisma wave]

and more storage

[lunar cypress]

but it's not for everyone since they are a german company

[prisma wave]

Yeah NA hosting is more expensive

But for EU it's perfect

[static zealot]

I mean idk if the Contabo one is really that much better than the best vps deal

[prisma wave]

It's cheaper and you get more

[static zealot]

the 4.99 E one is actually 5.94 E after VAT

and its euro not usd

[prisma wave]

That's objective better

[static zealot]

I guess its a bit better

but not a lot

[lunar cypress]

damn

uses 2% cpu lol

[jovial warren]

oh yeah, actually, thinking about benchmarking, maybe I should start doing it in Krypton

and profiling lol

[hot hull]

Make shit first, optimize later

[jovial warren]

been using JProfiler a bit

looks really nice, but that price tag is

https://tenor.com/xzNu.gif

[hot hull]

I need to start benchmarking some of my larger plugins

[lunar cypress]

profiling, you mean, yeah

[jovial warren]

kotlinx.benchmark

[hot hull]

been only developing on latest recently and you really do have to watch out when it comes to stuff

[hot hull]

Yea my bad

[jovial warren]

basically JMH for Kotlin if you use the JVM version

but it's multiplatform

[lunar cypress]

interesting

ah it uses jmh on the jvm

[jovial warren]

yeah

[jovial warren]

lol

also, JMH says it's for analysing nano/micro/milli/macro benchmarks

👀

😏

sign me up

[prisma wave]

What's that?

That code execution bot?

[jovial warren]

micro benchmarks

[lunar cypress]

no, my bot

my poker bot written in clojure 🙂

[prisma wave]

Ooh nice

[jovial warren]

thinking about bots, I should add more stuff to BardyBot lol

[lunar cypress]

I think if I finally bring myself to add some of the requested features this bot will grow a lot faster

But I'm too lazy and the discord api part is kind of a mess 🥲

[static zealot]

should I add contabo to ?best-vps-deals ?

[jovial warren]

man, you just reminded me that I gotta pay for my Hetzner stuff before they shut it down again and send me a passive-aggressive email telling me they're sending the bailiffs after my ass

[static zealot]

xD

[cinder flare]

bro i believe in you

[cinder flare]

where is this please

asking for a friend

[jovial warren]

I might make BardyBot use Brigadier tbh

[static zealot]

?best-vps-deal

[compact perch]

FAQ Answer:

https://my.hostus.us/cart.php?a=add&pid=64

Requested by: BlitzGamer_88 • best-vps-deal

[static zealot]

and contabo you can just google

[jovial warren]

that's put there by piggy

[static zealot]

its what BM uses

[cinder flare]

$65 a Year

[distant sun]

Why?

[cinder flare]

bro AWS would hit me with $65 a month

[jovial warren]

so I don't have to make my own command system

JDA-Utilities sucks ass

[static zealot]

yeah its pretty good

[lunar cypress]

and me 🙂

[cinder flare]

are they reliable? I've never heard of them before

[jovial warren]

and MF JDA doesn't suit what I need

[distant sun]

Why use a mc commands framework on a discord bot

[jovial warren]

also, don't be fooled by that VPS deal in ?best-vps-deal

[jovial warren]

you know Brigadier is universal right?

it works for literally anything

[distant sun]

Meh

[jovial warren]

that's how it's designed

[prisma wave]

a week*

[jovial warren]

man, I remember getting a 4 GB AWS EC2 instance before I calculated it would cost me $77/month

[static zealot]

I believe so. At least piggy recommends them so I guess they are

[cinder flare]

what is there to be fooled by

[jovial warren]

OpenVZ

[cinder flare]

oh shit

is that not a let me SSH into it myself kinda thing

[hot hull]

God I love how much of a lie this is

[jovial warren]

OpenVZ is great, until Docker comes around and says "I need advanced kernel features" and OpenVZ just kinda goes "erm... yeah... I can't provide that"

[hot hull]

Makes me look like I'm actually a usefull part of the society

[jovial warren]

since in OpenVZ, all instances use the same kernel

[static zealot]

you can check this out as well Starmism: https://contabo.com/en/vps/

the 4.99 one but careful. its Euros and after vat it is 5.94

[distant sun]

Contabo is meh imo

[static zealot]

and 5.94 euros is about 7$

[prisma wave]

only issue is NA hosting costs extra

[jovial warren]

Hetzner good

[lunar cypress]

yeah I'd only use contabo in EU

[hot hull]

Atleast hetzner doesn't burn :kek:

[lunar cypress]

all hetzner ips are banned from discord voice endpoints 🙃

[jovial warren]

nope

not true

[distant sun]

:))

[lunar cypress]

not anymore?

[jovial warren]

I've had my bot work on Hetzner servers for ages

[static zealot]

also BM

[cinder flare]

so you're saying im paying more for AWS for the guaranteed quality and reliability

[static zealot]

with contabo

[jovial warren]

and my bot is a Discord voice bot

[static zealot]

do you have to payt another 5E first time?

[distant sun]

Yes

[lunar cypress]

since when are you running it?

[distant sun]

"Setup fee"

[jovial warren]

I used to run it a few months back

[static zealot]

I just have the 3.5$ one from OVH lmao

[jovial warren]

I've ran it on my VPS recently though and it worked fine

[static zealot]

and the first month I get it... it burns

[distant sun]

:))

[lunar cypress]

ok then they settled it

[jovial warren]

well, I can't remember when I last ran it on my VPS tbh, but it works

[lunar cypress]

they were banned for a very long time

[jovial warren]

yeah ik

[prisma wave]

I bought the 6 month version so there wasn't a setup fee

[jovial warren]

for seemingly no reason

[static zealot]

ah

there is now

12 months has no setup fee

6 has 2.5

e

[jovial warren]

other than they got a lot of spam traffic I think from Hetzner

[lunar cypress]

there was abuse from those IPs, and neither hetzner nor discord cared to settle it

[jovial warren]

also, I don't think it's settled, but Discord didn't ban all IPs

[lunar cypress]

ah

[jovial warren]

most IPs ain't banned

[static zealot]

I'm just waiting for them to relaunch my VPS 😢

[jovial warren]

yours was in SB2?

that's a massive oof

[static zealot]

SB3 I think

[jovial warren]

wonder where all the companies on SB2 servers will go now

[static zealot]

yeah it was SBG3

aparently its Recoverable

so I didn't lose my jar... xD

lmao

that's all I had on there

[lunar cypress]

copium they will piece the ashes back together

[static zealot]

I just got a notice saying that it is recoverable

[jovial warren]

wait did they not have backups for SB2?

[static zealot]

well not everyone on it had a backuop

unless you bought services that ofered backups I think

[jovial warren]

surely they should back everything up anyway

[static zealot]

like off site backups

hmm idk

[jovial warren]

just off their own back

I think AWS and stuff do that

they back up stuff even if you don't pay for it, they just don't give you the backups, they store them in case something like that happens

[static zealot]

yeah but their prices are very high aren't they?

[jovial warren]

yeah

AWS is popular because of its rapid scalability and reliability

not because of its pricing

[cinder flare]

and cause it's backed by Amazon

[jovial warren]

not necessarily

[cinder flare]

and we know my boy Jeff Bezos ain't ever going down

No the reliability is definitely a reason

Multiple availability zones and all that

[jovial warren]

I've heard you can rescale your stuff with the click of a button

[static zealot]

if you want to read https://www.ovhcloud.com/en-gb/lp/status-services-backup-strasbourg/

[cinder flare]

Yeah that's possible

[static zealot]

SBG2 Bare Metal is not recoverable

[cinder flare]

They also have nice services other than EC2

[static zealot]

same for Web Plesk

[cinder flare]

Building a web app fully with AWS Lambda can be pretty cool

[static zealot]

and SoYouStart

wait acftually maybe they are idk

but I think they there's a thing called disaster recovery

that I on my VPS don't have

[jovial warren]

man, this is gonna fuck them up real bad

[static zealot]

https://i.imgur.com/1QDiYip.png

[jovial warren]

that's up to companies

[static zealot]

yeah idk why I sent that but my service has no disaster recovery option so if it burned down I had no way to recover it

[jovial warren]

guessing yours was in SBG2 then

[cinder flare]

lmaoo

[jovial warren]

rip

https://i.imgur.com/w7KM6he.png er... lol?

[cinder flare]

now that's a lot of non-arrays boss

[jovial warren]

literally joined the game and now the array count is at 149,779

[cinder flare]

oh and arrays too yeah

[jovial warren]

the array count is the one to watch

I think

anyone here know how to profile properly?

[cinder flare]

i vaguely read a thing that in 1.8 there was only like 200 arrays/s or something and in 1.13 it was like 30000 arrays/s

[hot hull]

1.3mil objects lmao

[jovial warren]

also, let's join again and see if it goes up lol

[cinder flare]

it was kinda crazy

[jovial warren]

OMFG

[half harness]

what is that

[heady birch]

Wow time to check my new world record server uptime on my OVH SBG-2 VPS instance

[jovial warren]

it's at like 327k arrays

and climbing

[cinder flare]

looks like a graph of objects in his server lol

[heady birch]

Connction refused? ??

[jovial warren]

https://tenor.com/bkvMV.gif

[hot hull]

Niall, :kek:

[cinder flare]

oh no!

[half harness]

objects as in objects in memory?

[cinder flare]

looks like to to me boss

i dunno, I just read the labels, same as you

[half harness]

lol

[heady birch]

Swift looks cool, can you use it for no Apple stuff?

[cinder flare]

Kinda, not many libraries for it though

[jovial warren]

https://i.imgur.com/IjJ0jaA.png bigger lol?

[cinder flare]

Kotlin is very similar, and it has much more support

Like, almost exactly similar syntax in a lot of situtations

[jovial warren]

something is definitely wrong here

[heady birch]

Swift has struct though 🙂

[cinder flare]

I almost thought they were the same language at first lol

[jovial warren]

there is no reason why the GC shouldn't clear at least half of that, surely

[heady birch]

What is this?

[cinder flare]

Just... don't use struct?

[jovial warren]

jprofiler

[heady birch]

Leaky memory 😦

[jovial warren]

it's going up again

yeah something here isn't right

it takes longer to join every time

[cinder flare]

uh oh

[jovial warren]

okay GC finally fucking did its job

[heady birch]

Did you know it is practically impossible to have a memory leak in Rust?

[cinder flare]

ah, relying on gc

[cinder flare]

yes actually

[jovial warren]

https://i.imgur.com/xcD3ayL.png about god damn FUCKING TIME

[cinder flare]

i don't think that's the point of this project though

[jovial warren]

jesus

[half harness]

4m 👀

[jovial warren]

yeah it almost hit 4 million

something is leaking somewhere

[cinder flare]

bro you gotta get that async gc going much much faster