my point is that the server doesn't need a fancy DSL or type safety or anything
#dev-general
jovial warren
also, what's wrong with Komponent on the backend? it's literally designed for the purpose of being both Kotlinified and working with kotlinx.serialization natively
it's literally perfect to use on the backend
prisma wave
when will the server implementation ever need a DSL for json messages?
jovial warren
when you have to wrap a chat message into {"translate":"chat.type.text","with":[{"text":"Herobrine","clickEvent":{"action":"suggest_command","value":"/msg Herobrine "},"hoverEvent":{"action":"show_entity","value":"{id:f84c6a79-0a4e-45e0-879b-cd49ebd4c4e2,name:Herobrine}"},"insertion":"Herobrine"},{"text":"I don't exist"}]}
prisma wave
the server doesn't do that
jovial warren
yes it does
prisma wave
it will just take some abstraction or the actual json text and send it
jovial warren
that's the format for chat messages
prisma wave
it doesn't need to ever create that text itself
jovial warren
¯_(ツ)_/¯
also, how would it not?
you never receive that text from the client
all you receive is the message in plain text
prisma wave
when will the server ever use something this complicated?
jovial warren
it's not even that complicated anymore
prisma wave
you're misunderstanding me
jovial warren
I mean, I get what you're saying, but writing raw JSON is ugly
prisma wave
the server will never need that DSL
the vanilla is just TextComponent(message)
and that's only ever used once
jovial warren
I guess you're right
prisma wave
i dont have anything against you making APIs but i feel like the time would be better spent at this current point in time
jovial warren
fair
ocean quartz
This would look better than clickEven = ...
component {
text("Hello! I am text!") {
...
openURL("https://example.com")
showText("Hello! I am hover text!")
...
}
}
Don't see why it wouldn't work
And how? lol
prisma wave
the supposed "type safe DSLs" that can't even check you don't have duplicate click events 🤣
jovial warren
yeah the DSL is changing lol
textComponent("Hello! I am text!") {
text("I am a child!")
}
annoying arrows (kinda) =
jovial warren
Don't see why it wouldn't work
And how? lol
could be difficult to tell the difference between openURL being a click event and a component
ocean quartz
Because it makes a lot of sense to open a url when hovering
lunar cypress
I like your version better
jovial warren
who's?
ocean quartz
Then do it like adventure does
text("Hello! I am text!") {
...
clickEvent(openUrl("https://example.com"))
hoverEvent(showText("Hello! I am hover text!"))
...
}
also, just thought about the fact that because these are vars, that means you can reassign the colour, formatting, insertion, click event and hover event multiple times
jovial warren
Then do it like adventure does
```kt
text("Hello! I am text!") {
...
cli...
I think the assignment kinda looks better than that
ocean quartz
I guess preference
jovial warren
I mean, I can add those functions if you want them lol
ocean quartz
No lol
jovial warren
¯_(ツ)_/¯
hmm
maybe I could make openURL an infix fun
so it becomes ```kotlin
clickEvent openURL "https://example.com"
sick to death of hearing about "kotlin's DSLs are so good! so type safe!! so flexible!!" bro if u cant even stop me from setting the same thing twice go back to school 😃
ocean quartz
That's ugly imo
lunar cypress
don't just slap infix somewhere because it looks cool at first glance
lunar cypress
when in doubt it only complicates things because it's not made to be used like this
jovial warren
when in doubt it only complicates things because it's not made to be used like t...
wdym?
click `open url` "https://example.com" lel
ocean quartz
Infinx is better for only small things like something in "message" or something is Object etc, putting a lot of infinx in the middle of your code will make it more complex than needed
jovial warren
yeah
prisma wave
10 `div` 3```infix should be used for proper operators on two operands that calculate a new value
and not just because you want to omit some parentheses
jovial warren
isn't the entire purpose of infix functions to omit parentheses though?
prisma wave
suffix fun x() 😃
jovial warren
lol
surreal quarry
prefix fun
prisma wave
that would be a good addition to the kotlin language
jovial warren
that's called an extension function lel
prisma wave
normal functions are already prefix 🥲
surreal quarry
we need the modifier
lunar cypress
and
openUrl: click * string -> Unit is simply not a sensible operator
jovial warren
the entire purpose of Kotlin is to be less explicit
lunar cypress
the first arg is only aesthetics even
jovial warren
yeah it really isn't
prisma wave
how to handle data reloading whilst maintaining immutability
inject a Provider<T>?
seems easy
but there could be pitfalls
stuck harbor
animal crossing pitfalls
prisma wave
MapConfig contains Map<String, GameMap>... MapManager constructor takes a MapConfig... what if we do /plugin reload? should MapConfig update? make a new MapManager?? mutable fields?
this is a genuine question
stuck harbor
ImmutableFactoryConstructorGetter.java
prisma wave
tnx
stuck harbor
while (true) {
Map<Brister, Mitten> eeee;
}
Lifetime of your objects begins with onEnable and ends with onDisable don't you agree
stuck harbor
...oui?
static zealot
I not do yes agree
prisma wave
Can't get a serious answer to anything these days
I see how you guys feel when I make a "joke"
static zealot
xD
prisma wave
Oh was it
MapManager lasts while the whole plugin is running, yes
Creating a new MapManager isn't particularly easy since it's injected to other components that also last the whole time
jovial warren
AbstractMapFactoryBuilderProvider
lunar cypress
you're writing a library though, right?
jovial warren
Unsafe#allocateMemory xD
ocean quartz
Can't get a serious answer to anything these days
Sorry but seems like you're in the wrong channel for that, dw though i have a wiki page that'll help you with your issue https://wiki.bristermitten.me/keep-immutability-but-reload
lunar cypress
Whereever this is used, it's most likely initialised in onEnable by creating an Injector
so what's the issue if you do that again
there's nothing special to handle
prisma wave
Well for example one of the Command classes has a MapManager injected, if I made a new one I'd also have to update the Command
lunar cypress
but... that's how it's done in every spigot plugin, no?
you create everything in onEnable
prisma wave
Uh
stuck harbor
yes everything
lunar cypress
and Guice doesn't care about state, it's just a dependency graph
Could you perhaps make an example to illustrate the issue
old wyvern
He means with an explicit reload command I think?
prisma wave
yeah
Not /reload
If I had a command to just reload configs
I don't have a way of actually updating all of the components with the new config
old wyvern
No idea tbh, never used guice
prisma wave
This isn't a guice specific thing
It would be the same problem with manual injection
old wyvern
Wasnt the issue with not having access to an injector?
old wyvern
It would be the same problem with manual injection
oh?
lunar cypress
Then I see the issue even less
prisma wave
Wasnt the issue with not having access to an injector?
Not exactly, having access to it anyway is usually a bad practice
Ok let me make an example
old wyvern
sure
lunar cypress
You have one MapConfig binding and in your reload command you mutate it?
prisma wave
Ideally I don't want to mutate it
I'd rather create a new MapConfig
But I guess keeping the mutation in the data class isn't bad
lunar cypress
Guice does everything ahead of time so there's not much you can do
And besides that restriction is a bit hard considering you're working with Spigot
prisma wave
My problem is that if I did make a new MapConfig, I can't then update all of the other components without mutating their MapConfig field or making new components
I guess mutability in the POJOs isn't that bad
Just feels messy
old wyvern
Wouldnt the other components be recreated as well?
prisma wave
ideally not
They probably could be
But then I'd have to recreate the entire dependency graph again
Which seems overkill when reloading a single file
old wyvern
You could alternatively have a delegating MapConfig which basically stores an internal instance of a MapConfig and passes down all calls to that, then you'd only need to change that instance.
lunar cypress
those are your only two options really
prisma wave
yeah I considered delegation
I could probably do something with Guice providers there
Inject a Provider<MapConfig> and encapsulate that mutability into the provider implementation
lunar cypress
You could alternatively have a delegating MapConfig which basically stores an in...
and how's that any different from just mutation
in effect
old wyvern
and how's that any different from just mutation
You arent actually mutating the MapConfig values 🤷
lunar cypress
but same in effect
prisma wave
No such thing as a stateless program 😔
lunar cypress
well it all comes down to how you model MapConfig
Imo there's no point in abstracting this kind of mutation away to some container in Java
especially if you implement it via a map (or something else mutable) anyway and there is no concurrency
prisma wave
the only issue with having MapConfig itself be mutable is that the instances are created by Gson
they're pretty much just typed wrappers of a json file
prisma wave
so a mutable wrapper is probably easier, considering deserializing the new file contents will make a new instance anyway
stuck harbor
yes
prisma wave
ok
lunar cypress
well in that case yeah
half harness
brister mitten
prisma wave
yes
surreal quarry
Sister Britten
jovial warren
when your maths is broken because of brackets 😐
converting RGB to a single integer is done like this: (red shl 16) or (green shl 8) or blue
but I was doing red shl 16 or green shl 8 or blue and wondering why I was getting a negative number lol
jovial warren
I kinda like it
shl is more readable than << imo
I sometimes have to sit there and actually think about whether << is a left or right shift lol
prisma wave
yeah but the precedence is messed up
jovial warren
precedence?
old wyvern
`shl` is more readable than `<<` imo
doubt
prisma wave
doubt
old wyvern
precedence?
operator precedence
surreal quarry
Bitwise always confuses me lol
prisma wave
theyre not that confusing
just not very useful
unless ur in a very specific situation
regal gale
Yeah...
surreal quarry
I think that’s the issue. I never use it so when I have to I need to look it up
And by have to I mean stackoverflow uses it but I need to modify it to fit my needs
regal gale
I don't like bitshift also
static zealot
welp no one in #development wants to give their opinion... will ask here.
which one is better? https://blitzoffline.com/404-neon-old or https://blitzoffline.com/404
prisma wave
🙄
static zealot
its a serious question
jovial warren
😐
static zealot
because second one is funny, but first one looks cool
static zealot
any time you want
prisma wave
yay
static zealot
btw the rickroll one works with any page. https://blitzoffline.com/why-elara-is-so-good
static zealot
also, on the second one, that is proper zoomed
and no. I just did 100% height and width and it went to that. the bottom is a bit cut off for some reason. maybe I should've went 80% or something didn't give it to much thinking
static zealot
btw its not mine xD
I just googled cool 404 pages
well the second one was my idea
old wyvern
still
static zealot
but the first one is just stolen xD
old wyvern
🤷
static zealot
yeah I think I'll change it back
old wyvern
Add attribution I guess?
static zealot
attribution?
surreal quarry
wiki soon™️
old wyvern
attribution?
credit the actual author
static zealot
oh problem is idk the author. this one is on a few websites
couldn't find who actually made it
old wyvern
lol
surreal quarry
if you have a wiki and don’t have fpprank what’s the point of having a website
static zealot
yeah because I think it was on w3schools as well or something like that. also it said "FREE" specifically for some reason
prisma wave
if you have a wiki and don’t have fpprank what’s the point of having a website
true !!
static zealot
is that what you 2 have?
surreal quarry
mines guides but yea lol
static zealot
yeah seen it
surreal quarry
it’s very useful
prisma wave
very very useful
static zealot
anyone wanna borrow me their code? xD
prisma wave
so many people helped!
static zealot
BM is yours on github?
prisma wave
- a docker image
half harness
doesnt work with dark reader on btw
hidden feature 😍
prisma wave
😍
prisma wave
yea
static zealot
oh I see. some ADVANCED stuff xD
surreal quarry
docker build -t bm/fpprank .
prisma wave
docker is easy
ocean quartz
Very good read me and about
prisma wave
and very useful
surreal quarry
docker run —name fpprank -p blah:blah bm/fpprank
i forget what ports are exposed
old wyvern
docker run docker
surreal quarry
something like that
prisma wave
thank you
old wyvern
rm -f ~
prisma wave
i added a readme
ocean quartz
Lol i found an issue with Ktor, using CIO server the locations become http://0:8080/location instead of http://localhost:8080/location, with Netty or Jetty it works fine
jovial warren
dis why Jira exists xD
ocean quartz
Already reported 
static zealot
lmao BM.
jovial warren
also, isn't writing tests so fun
surreal quarry
yes?
if you don’t enjoy unit testing your code
then i won’t speak to you ever again
old wyvern
Use https://bit.ly/3u7zcRK bm
jovial warren
yeah but the repetition lol
writing tests is kinda boring
having the tests work is nice though
surreal quarry
i’m joking lmao
surreal quarry
Use https://bit.ly/3u7zcRK bm
this was a GREAT moment
static zealot
wait there's a chrome extension called AdFly Skipper
and the AdFly website is broken. nice. is this the end of AdFly?
jovial warren
also, no matter how much people argue about whether Java or Kotlin is better, everyone must be able to agree that being able to write test methods with spaces in them makes Kotlin better for writing tests
surreal quarry
time to make my own adfly
surreal quarry
also, no matter how much people argue about whether Java or Kotlin is better, ev...
yes
static zealot
👍
ocean quartz
Kotlin + Assertj is great
prisma wave
yeah you know what's nice for unit testing? a functional programming language
ocean quartz
AssertJ has a better reading (imo) syntax
ocean quartz
Has a bunch of useful things too, like between, similar, greater, etc
static zealot
hmm
surreal quarry
that’s nice
ocean quartz
Why?
static zealot
because I have no use for it
surreal quarry
it’s the same as like assertEquals or something it seems but it might be more readable
ocean quartz
I mean it's unit testing lol @static zealot
I find it more readable yeah, but at the end of the day it's the same thing
static zealot
damn he hit me with the edit ping
jovial warren
looks pretty nice
I don't really need it though, since all I use is assertEquals with two strings lol
also, maybe generating a random username by generating random bytes and converting that to a UTF-8 string wasn't the brightest of my ideas
and also because it seems that kotlinx.serialization can sometimes struggle dealing with Unicode
it converted the first character to \u001c for literally no reason
ocean quartz
Just saw this disgrace on a guide
onyx loom
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
half harness
why do some ppl use ```java
for (;;)
steel heart
Why not
half harness
what does it do
ocean quartz
Basically while (true)
ocean quartz
Lmao
half harness
then why dont they use while (true)
steel heart
It’s shorter init?
half harness
ok
ocean quartz
They'll compile to the same thing, people use the one they find more readable
tough gull
Why do while do loops exist
half harness
who knows
prisma wave
do while
half harness
do {
} while (true)
prisma wave
They're useful in a few situations
half harness
They're useful in a few situations
show example
half harness
its just reversed
prisma wave
In that example they're useless
static zealot
very usefull sometimes
half harness
OH
tough gull
o
obtuse gale
useful usage
static zealot
well they're more of a don't repeat code type
tough gull
System.currentTimeMillis() grr
half harness
but
obtuse gale
yes, but Instants give you more flexibility
prisma wave
useful usage
couldn't that be a while loop tho
obtuse gale
I'm saving a hasNext I previously checked
static zealot
I love while(true) loops tho
ocean quartz
Yes
jovial warren
I love while(true) loops tho
until you forget to put break or continue in that one place that you just missed and it loops forever
static zealot
until you forget to put `break` or `continue` in that one place that you just mi...
well no. like without break or continue
used to crash the pcs at school like that. they had like 2gb of ram lmao
onyx loom
i sure do love stack overflows
static zealot
a classmate was like, wanna see something cool? I was like sure, he just made an infinite loop sending some random 0s and 1s on the screen until it blue screened
I was like: cool teach me
and just started doing it xD
prisma wave
u can go to jail for that!!
half harness
!!!11!!1!! call the police!!
ocean quartz
Oh boy that reminds me of the day my class took down the school network by ddossing it from every computer in the class fun times
static zealot
yeah we used to crash other's PCs because they were all connected
hot hull
I mean computers here legit have root access to the network, which is kek
onyx loom
oh god
hot hull
Half the pcs have crash programs installed on them
ocean quartz
I mean computers here legit have root access to the network, which is kek
Oh god really?
hot hull
Legit one big kek
onyx loom
yeah we could shut others computers down from our computers too
ocean quartz
We only had access to our own drive z
static zealot
oh we didn't have access but a few of us knew the administrator password xD
hot hull
Yea but noone will do anything cause ain't nobody care enough, also 90% of the people don't even know how to use a fucking pc
half harness
I mean computers here legit have root access to the network, which is kek
wdym by root access?
jovial warren
in Linux, there is literally nothing you cannot do with root
root is what is called the "superuser"
it has no regard for permissions. literally none.
ocean quartz
We had Linux Mint in our computers, it's pretty bad
Some had Ubuntu which was much nicer
winter iron
private fun applyAmountPlaceholder(scrapAmount: Int) : String =
NAME.replace("{amount}", scrapAmount.toString()).color()
private fun applyAmountPlaceholder(scrapAmount: Int) : String {
return NAME.replace("{amount}", scrapAmount.toString()).color()
}
Which is more readable
id say 2nd
but i like first
jovial warren
also, when you waste time with custom serialisers without realising that default serialisers can do a much better job than you can lol
distant sun
noob as usual
prisma wave
```kotlin
private fun applyAmountPlaceholder(scrapAmount: Int) : String =
NA...
2nd is probably more readable
jovial warren
also, you should read Kotlin official conventions
fun myFunction() : String big ew
you're not meant to have a preceding space, probably to differentiate inheritance from type declaration
ocean quartz
Ah yes Kotlin conventions
winter iron
with parameters i do it as var: type
ocean quartz
jovial warren
also, I guess I can't really talk, my code is a mess lol
ocean quartz
Official docs
ocean quartz
What would you say is better, 2 repositories on github one for backend and other for frontend or one repository with both? 
prisma wave
probably 1 for both
jovial warren
nvm, fixed it lol
prisma wave
Unless it's in an org
jovial warren
trimIndent().trimMargin().replace("[\n\r]".toRegex(), "") seemed to do it lol
ocean quartz
Oh god
prisma wave
You don't need to trim both an indent and a margin
ocean quartz
Good one Exposed, thanks
jovial warren
You don't need to trim both an indent and a margin
I do if it's indented don't I?
I need to first remove the indent, then remove the lead and trail whitespace, then remove new lines and carriage returns
prisma wave
so you don't need trimMargin
jovial warren
actually I don't even have any lead and trail whitespace lol
distant sun
How would one add bungee support for a plugin that uses mysql without redis or something like that to let the other servers that a valut was changed
jovial warren
Uhh that require a player connection =/
I mean, to send from Bukkit it does
to send from Bungee though, you require a ServerInfo instance
or a ProxiedPlayer instance iirc
you can send to both
the PMC is a mess though
prisma wave
to send from Bungee though, you require a `ServerInfo` instance
It still won't send if there aren't any players online lol
jovial warren
really?
jovial warren
well then your only option is third-party messaging Gaby
a.k.a Redis, Kafka, RabbitMQ, etc.
ocean quartz
So actually interesting question
I allow login from 3 different providers so far (Github, Gitlab, Google), I get their email and register/log them in
But was thinking, if they register through github then login with google, they'd get access to the same account (same email), since I only accept verified emails that shouldn't be an issue right?
distant sun
Is there any that doesnt require an installation
ocean quartz
Yeah
unkempt tangle
@prisma wave How would you rate lua? 10 to Kotlin?
jovial warren
So actually interesting question
I allow login from 3 different providers so far...
what you making btw?
prisma wave
<@!266973575225933824> How would you rate lua? 10 to Kotlin?
Never used it
I hear it's good
unkempt tangle
My first confrontation with lua was at the PSP scene.
jovial warren
and when I say ew, I don't mean tolerable ew, like Kotlin ew, I mean whatever tf <$> .: is meant to be
unkempt tangle
Everyone tried to develop games with it.
prisma wave
and when I say ew, I don't mean tolerable ew, like Kotlin ew, I mean whatever tf...
I've gone over this already
jovial warren
function factorial(number)
if n == 0 then
return 1
else
return number * factorial(number - 1)
end
end
```not a bad languageRight now is just for learning, still not sure if i'll make it a thing or not, but something similar to Crowdin, for handling language files for plugins
jovial warren
but kinda over verbose
prisma wave
```lua
function factorial(number)
if n == 0 then
return 1
else
retur...
factorial n = fold (*) [1..n] >>>
jovial warren
I've gone over this already
that I and most normal people think that's big ew and you think that's somehow good?
seems legit
prisma wave
Ok I will explain for the third time
jovial warren
`factorial n = fold (*) [1..n]` >>>
eh, not bad
prisma wave
.: is from a specific library and looks good in the context it's designed to be used in. <$> is almost definitely designed to replicate the mathematical symbol whilst being easy to type
prisma wave
If you're gonna say Haskell is trash get some actual evidence
jovial warren
that came from Haskell?
jovial warren
also, Haskell's not bad, it's just kinda ugly
prisma wave
Where did you think it was from
jovial warren
I don't mind ugly languages though so I can't really say shit
prisma wave
`factorial n = fold (*) [1..n]` >>>
This is Haskell too
prisma wave
Haskell is great
lunar cypress
:OMEGALUL:Caml is also great
distant sun
What symbol is <$> lol
lunar cypress
it's for people who are scared of parens
prisma wave
I believe that is the operator for mapping a functor
An alias to the fmap function but infix
I think
Something like that
distant sun
a.k.a Redis, Kafka, RabbitMQ, etc.
I assume all have to be installed on the actual sever, right?
ocean quartz
Aight ngl Exposed, this eq is really ugly lol
prisma wave
ima be honest I think most of the standard kotlin code is unbelievably ugly
Ktor, Exposed, the compiler
It's all a mess
ocean quartz
I actually like how ktor looks, but exposed is very ugly
prisma wave
not even a good ugly
tough gull
ima be honest I think most of the standard kotlin code is unbelievably ugly
yes! kotlin bad
prisma wave
don't take my words out of context you cretin
prisma wave
One thing I have noticed is that it's a lot easier to write messy kotlin code than it is java
Because it's not as strict
If you wanna do something in java you pretty much have to follow some design pattern
Whereas kotlin doesn't particularly care about that
lunar cypress
kotlin simply has a lot of syntax
prisma wave
Yeah but I mean on a larger scale
I am starting to see why people would prefer java though
Kotlin is more productive but it becomes hard to read and manage at scale
lunar cypress
I disagree
prisma wave
Oh?
ocean quartz
I think a well written large scale Kotlin is easier to read than a Java one, the issue with Kotlin is when people start making it too complex for no reason
For example Bardy's idea of using infix
prisma wave
Yeah maybe that's the reason, people tend to want to abuse kotlin's features
To try and make things more "idiomatic"
ocean quartz
Since there isn't really good guidelines like Java has, people do what they feel most of the times
ocean quartz
Yeah i think so, was released last year, I remember watching a conf of the writter
prisma wave
might be worth a read
heady birch
too bad I do not even know what IdioMatic even means
lunar cypress
I just think it's a bit silly to say that Kotlin is harder to manage at scale considering it's so close to java
if anything it's just as hard
because I think we can all agree that most of Kotlin's additions are good and do not introduce new scalability issues
prisma wave
Yeah I'm not denying they're more productive
I think what I'm trying to say is that it's easier to write messy code in kotlin
heady birch
lunar cypress
I think it's as easy as writing messy code in Java, but it's easier to write Kotlin-specific inconsistent code
tough gull
Could someone tell me the difference between continue and break?
half harness
ahh im stupid 🤦
tough gull
instead of disgusting nested if statements
steel heart
Lol
prisma wave
I think it's as easy as writing messy code in Java, but it's easier to write Kot...
yeah you may be right. I feel like the extra freedoms kotlin brings comes with the increased risk of abusing them, so maybe that's why
obtuse gale
Hi
I have a problem i don't know where ask my question, i will ask here
When i download the faction expansion, she's not detect with a papi reload. If someone can help me please ?
surreal quarry
obtuse gale
Thanks
jovial warren
too bad I do not even know what IdioMatic even means
u dum dum
surreal quarry
iomadict
jovial warren
can you spell, James?
jovial warren
change your username back from whatever tf that is lol
forest pecan
Nah
jovial warren
whoever u =
prisma wave
what is idiomatic
prisma wave
genuine question
considering streams and higher order functions are now in java, is using first class functions everywhere idiomatic?
could java become a functional language?
jovial warren
¯_(ツ)_/¯
oh also, anyone here figured out how to stop IJ saving empty indentations btw?
like when you leave a gap you have to manually delete the whitespace to push it back
steel heart
could java become a functional language?
You get carried away too often
prisma wave
im not getting carried away
steel heart
Not so?
prisma wave
just contemplating
if we can express something in a language, is it necessarily idiomatic?
what defines idiomatic?
steel heart
Your thoughts are getting carried away then perhaps? :0
steel heart
Java imperative oop is nice
Makes more sense
Not to mention I can’t get a good grip of composition
steel heart
Hmm I think that is the design I tried in react
prisma wave
blah(other(s)) is composition
steel heart
It made me hella confused
prisma wave
do you mean function composition?
prisma wave
well there's also composition that's an alternative to inheritance
jovial warren
imagine a purely declarative language
steel heart
Lol
jovial warren
that would be omega ew
prisma wave
there are many purely declarative languages
prisma wave
what do you mean by control flow
steel heart
Tbf angular is the way
prisma wave
because if/else is fine in declarative languages
prisma wave
there are many purely declarative languages
actually i think im wrong here, even the purely functional languages have some support for describing things as a series of steps (eg do blocks in haskell)
steel heart
the ones that causes trouble are the better ones
prisma wave
and side effects are inherently imperative
logic programming languages like Prolog are probably the closest you can get to purely declarative
steel heart
I get declarative and functional is nice but so is oop and imperative?
prisma wave
i guess imperative can be nice in a modern language
i.e something like Go
im just bored of java lol
steel heart
Yeah, just started learning react typescript jsx shit and damn I want to go back to java so badly
lunar cypress
Java will not become a functional language
You can of course be unorthodox
Clojure was written that way
but first class functions aren't really a thing
prisma wave
yea i'm just playing devil's advocate really
winter iron
What sort of frameworks would i need in order to build a website, front-end with basic backend (Like simple calcluations)
what sort of technology i am looking for
im thinking just webstorm with CSS HTML and JavaScript to do my calculation stuff
but would i need something like react or Node.js or are they primarily for more complex things
surreal quarry
might want to consider react
prisma wave
React is nice for bigger sites
surreal quarry
its a good framework
prisma wave
probably overkill for a single page
winter iron
few pages, low traffic
simple calculations
just multiplication
basically
so i wouldnt really need any frameworks right
surreal quarry
probably not
steel heart
Maybe just write from scratch unless you want to learn react or smtng
Then why not try it out
winter iron
i guess both
frigid badge
vue is pretty easy even for tiny sites
prisma wave
yeah vue is good
winter iron
its for my uncles business, just a simple front-end for some contact information
and a calculator
to do math stuff
steel heart
Angular 
winter iron
all these frameworks are mainly used to have some sort or client-server interaction right?
I dont really need it if thats the case
steel heart
No I think react and vue are just javascript frameworks sorta?
surreal quarry
they help with "reactivity"
surreal quarry
like react gives you access to stateful components that you can change the state of when certain things happen (nice for calculator potentially)
prisma wave
depends on the framework
surreal quarry
but it can also be accomplished without a framework
steel heart
React also has so many extensions or libs whatever it’s called which is absolutely fantastic
winter iron
the fuck is MVC
steel heart
Probs the case for vue and angular as well
prisma wave
Model View Controller
winter iron
Isee
I feel like i should defo use some framework in case they want future stuff added
and i like the word angular
surreal quarry
i really enjoyed using nextjs
prisma wave
react is possibly nicer than angular
surreal quarry
very similar to react but faster load times, server side rendering and stuff
surreal quarry
you can use TS with any of these frameworks lol
winter iron
hmm
steel heart
Yeah
surreal quarry
all JS is valid TS
prisma wave
use Elm
winter iron
doesnt Java have some sort of framework for backend stuff?
surreal quarry
elara/js
prisma wave
doesnt Java have some sort of framework for backend stuff?
many many frameworks
prisma wave
depends
ocean quartz
Spring prolly
prisma wave
Spring is useful but almost definitely overkill here
steel heart
Spring lol factoryfactory
prisma wave
🥲
winter iron
whats the best way to make a front end would be my next question?
just going in with html and csss
or some sort of web builder
prisma wave
or some sort of web builder
please god no
steel heart
DIY Ig
prisma wave
learn how to do it the hard way
surreal quarry
learn it yourself
frigid badge
vue ez
ocean quartz
Tbh the only Java one i know is spring xD
If you want to do Kotlin instead, Ktor
steel heart
Wordpress is nice sometimes
frigid badge
pick whatever you want
surreal quarry
tf is that
steel heart
Elara web application and website framework when?
surreal quarry
lmao
prisma wave
but it'll be great once it does
surreal quarry
nice
steel heart
Yes indeed
prisma wave
every startup will instantly switch to Ding
winter iron
i shall wait for Elara then
prisma wave
ok great 😃
winter iron
🙂
prisma wave
-> in kotlin
surreal quarry
i shall wait for Elara then
beta-rc-alpha-0.0.0.1-pre-release coming soon
steel heart
@ocean quartz is ktor good like with react?
surreal quarry
ktor & kotlin-react-app
steel heart
Hmm might try kotlin instead of nasty tsx
ocean quartz
Really like it so far yeah
surreal quarry
honestly kotlins html syntax didn't look to appealing to me, but it might be better than I think
prisma wave
DSLs are overrated
lunar cypress
Barely anyone uses that I think
I kinda want to finish this simple web project I had. So far I've done it in plain HTML/CSS/JS, I wonder how I would migrate to something like react
lunar cypress
for example how do you incorporate data from the backend? Right now I use a template engine for html rendering on the backend but apparently all those frontend frameworks do that too
obtuse gale
anybody know if theres a way to code/run visual basic on mac?
lunar cypress
might be a dumb question
frigid badge
there are loads of libraries for it though
if you use a json api specification
you can abstract all the requesting away into a frontend orm
using a library
lunar cypress
definitely too much effort to migrate but I will try it in the future
prisma wave
i wanna learn either rust or haskell properly
any suggestions?
kinda tempted to try and make another mc server impl
hard to think of project ideas that don't involve mc
steel heart
Make chess
frigid badge
lmfao imagine your future employer reading your ideas/repos
prisma wave
Boring
frigid badge
mc this, mc that, mc this
prisma wave
Code is code
frigid badge
so uh... do you do anything not mc related?
prisma wave
I made a fake wiki site that sends people to functional language websites
Any employer would love that
steel heart
lmfao
prisma wave
But non MC stuff is usually boring
I've never felt the desire to make a website ever
prisma wave
Lol
steel heart
Tbf I would create websites and webapps more if I could wrap my head around react
lunar cypress
If you want to write a server so badly just take some other server protocol
prisma wave
True that could be cool
lunar cypress
Something smaller that you will actually get done
prisma wave
Like xmpp or something?
lunar cypress
anything, honestly
lunar cypress
whatever you like
prisma wave
yea I'm just thinking out loud here
lunar cypress
I imagine some older console or something could also be fun
prisma wave
I wouldn't even know where to start there
Is there documentation on stuff like that?
Have people reverse engineered them enough to actually know how they worked
This is more MC related but one of those "making minecraft in a week" ideas sound cool
lunar cypress
Is there documentation on stuff like that?
sure, people have been reverse engineering those for decades
lunar cypress
there's an entire wiki on the gameboy for instance https://gbdev.gg8.se/wiki/articles/Main_Page
Although that's already quite a lot
prisma wave
I think I wanna learn more about low level stuff, OpenGL and things so maybe that would be good
Maybe implementing a simple language in C or something
Like a Lisp or Basic or something
lunar cypress
prisma wave
👀
looks fun
Ugh there's so much I wanna learn more about
Do you just learn stuff in school or do you actively teach yourself?
lunar cypress
you, as in, me?
half harness
i'm working a bot/plugin with someone else and they use maven 😬
prisma wave
🥲
half harness
and im trying to shade in my lib
and
usahdiuashd
i hate maven
like 1000 lines to put shade plugin
lunar cypress
Most of what I'm doing I'm teaching myself
School didn't do much other than getting me started
And sometimes stuff I learn about inspires me to try some things
prisma wave
ic
lunar cypress
For example when we were taught low level machines in basics of computer science I wrote an emulator for the model we used
prisma wave
That sounds cool
lunar cypress
And now I want to make a language with a formal spec because there's a lot about languages right now
prisma wave
Makes sense
Do you have a routine you use for learning new languages or do you just try it out?
lunar cypress
usually my motivation to learn something new comes from a different source than just pure curiosity
So I do tend to have an application where I want to use it directly
prisma wave
I see
lunar cypress
But I always start by just reading the official docs nowadays
prisma wave
Fair enough
lunar cypress
for example I wanted to learn Rust because I wanted to use this i18n framework written in Rust in Java
Or rather I thought it would be cool to make bindings to it
prisma wave
Oh yeah I think I remember you talking about that
oak raft
for example I wanted to learn Rust because I wanted to use this i18n framework w...
"rust, the easiest way to drain your life away"
lunar cypress
that it did
oak raft
I meant the game 😛
quiet depot
that phrase also heavily applies to the game rust
oak raft
hahaha
prisma wave
Yeah I guess I have way too much curiosity with no actual direction at the moment
lunar cypress
as for the programming language this turned out to be a terrible entry point however
lunar cypress
Yeah I guess I have way too much curiosity with no actual direction at the momen...
tip: Write down your ideas and think about them for a little longer before you dive into something new entirely and try to realise them
prisma wave
I'm not sure I'm at the idea phase yet
I wanna learn Prolog for example but I have no idea what it's even used for
It just sounds cool though
lunar cypress
fair enough
prisma wave
But yeah that's a good tip for other situations
lunar cypress
reminds me I have to update my gh readme again to not lose track
prisma wave
?
steel heart
prisma wave
I promise I'll have another look once this round of commissions is done
Might start over from scratch
half harness
Might start over from scratch
scratch?
prisma wave
Keep the slides but rerecord everything I mean
half harness
ohh ok
prisma wave
Do u think I should be more like enthusiastic
half harness
Do u think I should be more like enthusiastic
be like
hEY! toDAY we are going to learn some JAVAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
prisma wave
He has such a nice voice
steel heart
The video layouts are the best
prisma wave
Ikr
steel heart
Thumbnails holy duck
prisma wave
They're really well structured
prisma wave
be like
hEY! toDAY we are going to learn some JAVAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
That's not really what I meant lol
prisma wave
I'm not sure how to explain
steel heart
BM was depressed last time recording obv
half harness
oh
steel heart
Emo bm
half harness
wot
Hey guys!
Today we're going to learn some super awesome java coding!!
wOOOhoOOOOOOOOO
no-
prisma wave
Yes I did sound very dead
half harness
Hey guys! Brister Mitten here!
Today we're going to learn some java!
epic
prisma wave
Cuz I was trying to be professional lol
half harness
Cuz I was trying to be professional lol
prisma wave
I will rerecord in my normal voice I guess
Rather than trying to sound super serious
steel heart
Mr BM Oracle Employee 20 years Web Enterprise knowledge and 50 CS degrees
half harness
Hi**.**
We will learn java today**.**
prisma wave
Also does anyone here have a Mac that would be willing to record a jdk install guide that I'd narrate over
steel heart
I gave mine away sadly
prisma wave
Shame
steel heart
Depends
prisma wave
i guess macos peasants will have to follow the Linux guide and use a bit of common sense
steel heart
Lmao
regal gale
What's up Youtube *oof* and welcome back to another video, and here we have the best lesson *wow sound* to cheer your day *yey sound*
surreal quarry
it should be pretty similar to linux
surreal quarry
ye
prisma wave
> What's up Youtube \*oof\* and welcome back to another video, and here we have ...
So annoying lmao
regal gale
That's definition of most cringe youtuber these days ._.
steel heart
lol
half harness
anyone good with linux?
prisma wave
Define good
half harness
whats the command to show list of screens
prisma wave
all the screens running?
surreal quarry
screen -ls
half harness
There is a screen on:
2238.pts-0.raspberrypi (02/17/2021 07:11:10 PM) (Attached)
1 Socket in /run/screen/S-pi.
uh
how do I open it?
prisma wave
yeah you're already in it
half harness
oh lol
I didn't know
[screen is terminating]
pi@raspberrypi:~ $ screen -ls
No Sockets found in /run/screen/S-pi.
um
half harness
oh
surreal quarry
screen -S name to start one
surreal quarry
talking abt different things. its screen -S name to start one
half harness
what is docker for
prisma wave
My bad
jovial warren
Imagine still using screen in 2021 ew
prisma wave
what is docker for
Everything
surreal quarry
run linux inside docker inside docker inside your raspberry pi
jovial warren
tmux > screen
prisma wave
No need for screen when you have a docker container!!
surreal quarry
short
half harness
o
surreal quarry
my build.gradles average 327 lines
half harness
WHAT
surreal quarry
/s stoopid
jovial warren
Screen isn't in RHEL anymore because it's codebase is dog shit
Tmux was chosen over it
half harness
mainClassName = 'me.dkim19375.mcservercreator.MCServerCreatorMain'
the very start
of my project
half harness
lol
jovial warren
What does that project do