Saadya's Fair Trade, but for commods

[patent quarry]

What if we had a "Saadya's Fair Trade" sort of crate you could buy from Paxian Stronghold, but for commod crates like Petroleum Pits or whatnot?

Saadya's Fair Trades already drop things that you would otherwise get from KD DGs, so why not also get something else that can get you those pesky commods if you don't want the gear?

It would give another use for the Kalthi scrap you get from DGs if you didn't want to just convert them into creds by scrapping the stuff you'd get from em or selling em for creds, and, if you're unlucky with your drops from DGs, it could be a way to convert the scrap you would have otherwise invested into Saadya's Fair Trade crates, into the things you actually want.

It would also probably make people want to do KD DGs some more, but that's outside the scope of my proposal.

Pricing on it and whatnot, not within the scope of this discussion; for this discussion, only the idea is enough.

[slim hollow]

(Nylls has a severe petroleum deficient in game and doesn't want to buy petro from the saudis)

[patent quarry]

(i bought them out already, mashallah)

one day we will have short term petroleum outbursts in space to have conquests over a la USA et al

until then, this would be a nice thing to have

[empty sun]

honestly i think some commodities don't have equivalent sinks

not sure if this is planned or not w.r.t. supply and demand for some commodities

like plasma crystals and ablution crystals don't drop from game mobs on supply side

on demand side, a lot of demand for certian commods due to modules and kaltih skills

that's very lopsided

i would be interested in a lossy exchange of one commod to another, but just getting something like creb/scrap from commods is not as interetsing

its either designed to be purposely scarce or abundant (depending on commod), see cloud mercury to gate player progression across the whole player base or nobody has tended that garden and it's been that way for too long

[patent quarry]

i'd like that, too

[patent quarry]

call it philosopher's factory

or philosopher's stone

to convert from one to another

[hazy coral]

If you sit in df 500 kd for a few hours you’ll have all the petrol you need

[patent quarry]

this wasn't what this thread was about

[hazy coral]

I already saw the edit

They can’t add it in to the trade cause then the market will be over saturated

Like I said if you are short on petrol there’s a very easy way to get it

[patent quarry]

that's a balancing thing. there's nothing that says that it will be over saturated. people already use the scrap for swapping into saadya's fair trades and scrapping the mining rockets and gear you get from em, or getting em for the paxian concealers and shroudings.

if you make em something like 1k scrap -> commod crate, aka 10x more expensive than this, or something like that for instance, I don't see it oversaturating the market; but either way, this isn't about the market or anything like that

[hazy coral]

Shroudings, mining rockets etc don’t drop in mass from KD ai

[patent quarry]

they do

in fact I sold like 50 yesterday I got from AI

[hazy coral]

50 what?

[patent quarry]

mining rockets

it was an easy 50 bil

not really they don't sell for 1 bil

it was like 25 bil

[hazy coral]

Sure normal mining rockets do my bad but not the ones anyone wants like OS/giga

[patent quarry]

no, you just get the scrap to get them

from saadya's fair trades

they also drop from DG bosses

[hazy coral]

Both have pretty low drop rates for those specific items

Petrol you can get thousands per hour in KD

It’s not an issue

[patent quarry]

this is false. I've done KD for 2 hours and got a total of about 10 petroleum pits.

DF 500, of course

i don't see the relevance of this, however.

this topic is not about anything else other than just giving more uses for the kalthi scrap.

this does not talk about the conversion ratio, which would be a balancing act.

[hazy coral]

You want to use Kalthi scrap for petrol. I’m telling you there’s plenty of petrol to be farmed. And while simultaneously getting thousands of petrol, you get thousands of everything else

Yeah solo ranger likely not the best to farm KD efficiently

[patent quarry]

that was on an SD.

not a ranger.

[hazy coral]

SD prob not the best either

[patent quarry]

the class that can do 70 trackers per hour is not the best one at farming small enemies in KD?

[hazy coral]

No it’s not. If I have to explain that to you I feel bad

Zipping around and killing 1 target at a time is not the same as taking out swarms

[patent quarry]

no, I want to be able to use kalthi scrap (which drops from enemies) to get commods (which also drop from enemies) in the same way you can get gear (which also drops from enemies).

[patent quarry]

i think this ragebait is very cheap

clearly you don't want to have a respectful discussion

i will refrain from replying to you anymore; I've made my point.

[hazy coral]

You asked me the question with an attitude and edited it to make it look better

[patent quarry]

I've said "no shit", is that attitude?

[hazy coral]

You could have come to the conclusion on your own if you just rubbed 2 brain cells together that splash> single target in a swarm situation

[patent quarry]

right, so you're still not willing to have a respectful discussion

please do not engage with this thread if you are not willing to contribute to the idea.

the fact that one can get resources another way is not within the scope of this suggestion.

[halcyon raven]

sd is still faster, there's barely swarms, but it's not really what the thread is about

[patent quarry]

in fact, this thread is specifically about offering another way.

shutting it down because it is another way without adding anything is not very productive.

[hazy coral]

The other way will saturate market or dilute what people want from the trade ins which is typically scrap. It’s not the solution. The solution would be advocating for Bps to use something other than petrol

[patent quarry]

if you have this sort of attitude, please also go in the other thread where I've suggested that the orange black boxes from trackers should also be redeemable for paxian recommendations and voice it.

the topic of dilution/saturation is a topic of balancing, which is not within the scope of this discussion, which is simply just about the idea.

the idea does not inherently lead to saturation/dilution.

[slim hollow]

Just make a commod sink exchange. Input 10 commods of one type, get a token which you can buy the other commods for 1 to 1.

[hazy coral]

That’s fine too

[patent quarry]

this somehow does not lead to saturation/dillution?

[hazy coral]

If you haven’t learned anything here yet, the devs don’t balance anything

[patent quarry]

they clearly did well with the orange blackboxes.

[patent quarry]

this was suggested previously, and would be a welcome change. this is a separate idea/topic.

[patent quarry]

the double standard is obvious, and it's very visible that you are not interested in an actual discussion

[halcyon raven]

just fyi petroleum (and most commods) would never be saturated, there's a min price

[patent quarry]

true, but this is really besides the point, because it doesn't really matter, this is up to the devs to find out a proper implementation, this is just about the idea.

[empty sun]

the amount of commodities listed on mc is like 1/100th what actually exists in peoples storages

maybe 1/1000th

mc is bonkers for commodities

[patent quarry]

yup. and sometimes getting the commods/gear you want is a pain, just like getting those gigantic mining rockets from DGs; which is why saadya's fair trades are actually pretty nice, you can double-dip into drops that way.

my proposal is along the same lines: you can get these commods from DGs, just like the items; it would be cool to have a similar system for commods as well

[patent quarry]

for gigantic mining rockets too lol I bought all of them some time ago and the price spiked to 20 bil

seems it's about 10 bil now

[hazy coral]

I’ve got 50k petrol from roughly 20hrs of farming KD last year, with a gunner, while being constantly jumped by Srx. From what I’ve heard, they added more AI to KD. And that number probably sucks compared to better PvEers.

[halcyon raven]

i just didnt have my shop up

[patent quarry]

you'd now have a choice: do you spend your scrap for gear that you'd use for bps/for your own builds? or do you spend your scrap for commods that you'd use for bps/other stuff like your energy that might require some commod?

systems that are about universal conversions between commods are not really what I am proposing; that would be a separate thing, which I would not be opposed to necessarily, but it's not what I'm proposing here

[empty sun]

FYI Angel, they nerfed kd commod farming -- it use to be better, but doing kalthi roaming is a good way to get commodities yeah

it's just not everyone does that anymore, the farmer vs consumer ratio sucks

people just login, do their lockouts and have blueprints to build and not enough farmers to supply the modules

[patent quarry]

yup. so much so that the mc price for certain commods, like petroleum pits, is 5.25 bil right now.

this is both a sign of no one really farming em

but also because farming them is a chore and very tedious

[hazy coral]

So are you proposing that 1 commod crate be included in the trade in, in exchange for 100 KD wreckage, or are you asking for a separate trade in specificity for a commod crate? I think I’ve seen you recommend both?

[patent quarry]

as I said earlier, 2 hours, 10 petroleum pits

[hazy coral]

If it’s including in the trade in, with the 50+ other items, you’ll barely get any. Cause adding every commod crate adds another what, 10-20 crates that you can get?

[patent quarry]

a new trade-in option in Paxian Stronghold:
some amount of KD wreckage (number can be whatever, balancing is not the point here) -> 1 crate that can drop 1 random commod crate that you'd get from KD, in the same way that saadya's fair trades work

[hazy coral]

Well the balancing aspect is important because too many wreckage in exchange for a chance to get what you want, would make it not worth it

[patent quarry]

exactly, it's important, but it's not up to me to say how much that is, that's up to devs to find out.

[hazy coral]

So if it was 1000 wreckage for 1 random commod crate, would that be good to you?

[patent quarry]

this is strictly about the conversion idea. you could make it 100 wreckage, 200 wreckage, 500 wreckage, 1000 wreckage; but ideally it should match the way saadya's fair trade works:

given the gear you would get from doing DGs/roaming AI in KD from using saadya's fair trades bought with KD scrap, you have a ratio of how much extra loot you got; that same ratio, or a similar one, can be used to compute the price/prize pool of this new crate.

[hazy coral]

The idea on paper is fine but the implementation is what matters. Actual numbers need to be discussed

[patent quarry]

it might be a bit much considering the drop rates. i'm not sure what would be a good exchange rate.

[patent quarry]

well, when we'll have the drop rates we'll be able to derive the exact one.
we don't have those.

so I leave this number up to the devs to figure out

[patent quarry]

with this strategy being proposed on how to figure it out

the loot from saadya's fair trades using the KD scrap acquired from doing DGs/AI, divided by the number of gear you got from doing DGs/AI, we'll call the "extra-loot" ratio.

if the current price for saadya's fair trades is 100 KD wreckage

the rate of gear drops you get, divided by the rate of commod crates you get, should also be a scaling factor for the cost of this new crate, based off of the 100 KD wreckage. for instance, if you get commods 5 times as rare, maybe it should be 500 KD wreckage.

that "extra-loot" ratio should also be used in determining some limit to it, as well

the crate should allow you to acquire more loot in the very same way that saadya's fair trades allow you to acquire more loot.

it shouldn't give you 10x more than the saadya's fair trades for the same KD scrap.

it shouldn't give you 10x less.

i'm not sure if the chances in saadya's fair trades are equal between the items you can get from it; and I don't have enough data to say what this ratio is, but this ratio is derivable, and whatever it is, it should likely be used in determining the right pricing, or the right prizes of the crate.

clearly, balancing is important; and I proposed some ways of balancing it such that the end effects are similar to saadya's fair trades to get gear.

[slim hollow]

whichever is the fair trade amount, = a crate that opens up to 5 commod crates. they're still randomized.

[patent quarry]

this would simply be another way to implement, but yes

same formulas apply

i don't have an issue with:

X KD scrap = a crate that gives one 1 commod crate, randomized
or
5 * X KD scrap = a crate that gives 5 commod crates, the commod crate type being randomized
or
Y * X KD scrap = a crate that gives up to N commod crates, but each commod crate type is randomized
or other permutations

either of these solutions are acceptable and satisfy my proposal; however maybe giving thigns that give upt o N commod crates might be harder to balance.

[pastel quiver]

why not let me extract mining rockets from my planets since I can also extract petroleum