#Exotic items should get more extra NF rolls

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

modern palm
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As a step down from exalted, which always get +1 NF rolls per item used (2 rolls total), exotic should have a 50% chance to give an extra NF roll. Right now exotic items the worst to NF, because they are not usually as common as rare items, but only a little less rare than exalted, or cost the same to make (ie matri bps), or are the only option (angre/gonz drops, red outpost boss blueprints)

inland apex
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in the cast of most of the exotic items they cost more really baffling

wooden wadi
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I 100% support this. Exotic items are in a bad spot with the NF system.

void atlas
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All the drawbacks of exalted, with none of the advantages of rare. Truly, exotic items are the middle management of SS rarity tiers.

haughty totem
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Shower thought - What if exotic+ bps had an extra build qty? like instead of 1 per bp, could build 2 or 3? That might be a happy middle ground
(thinking as someone who has very few bps)

formal wraith
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would also maybe love for exotic/exalted/plus tier items to get more than 2 mods when bindoing them maybe

scenic salmon
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No

formal wraith
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tad of a disparity with mod possibilities is all, take a look at potential mods:

Weapons 14
Shields 19
Engines 16
Hull Extensions 8
Capacitors 11
Shield Chargers 7
Scoops 10
Tractor Beams 9
Energies 14
Radars 17
Cloaks 13
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Well I tried atleast ;p

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Sorry for distracting this thread.

modern palm
scenic salmon
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2 Bindo is to prevent infinite rolling. Ultimately we want you to engage in NF more then Bindo rolling repeatedly

modern palm
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yeah but Im referring to the ask about exotic items getting more extra rolls

scenic salmon
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Nothing to add

modern palm
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is there someone who can add then, or can this be broutht up at a dev meeting? because exotic items are real frustrating

granite swallow
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We've talked about it internally, we're not planning on doing anything to exotic items when it comes to mods.

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We'll keep talking about it.

modern palm
inland apex
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i mean Exalted items like LAAA are worse

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have to get the item to drop, or solo it 5x a week to even consider such a thing

scenic salmon
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Dialing in loot is exactly what we re looking at

modern palm
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a lot of orange items are still hard to acquire and then barely make a dent in NF

inland apex
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I mean i'm in agreeance that orange are terrible, but even exalted aren't really better countering the whole "more items rather than bindo"

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if it were bindo you'd actually be able to NF the stuff

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making it item heavy feels like a punishment

lavish swan
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trying to dial in an exotic NF is painful

wet knot
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So much nicer to forge Pink items because at least I don’t get a single roll of either:
A) remove the best mod and give me reinforced
B) +1 to main mod
C) No change

void atlas
inland apex
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I'd rather the droprates were more abundant and reasonable

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if after 2 years of farming, I don't even have the capacity to NF an LAAA even 2 to 3 times, what is the point?

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The item grind isn't even a grind at that point, it has become a waste of time.

wet knot
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Yeah the drop rates of items from matriarch are skewed, whether or not they want to admit it.

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Honestly we could just post a google sheet link where everyone posts their inventory of Lustrous and Luminous BPs, that should be a big enough sample size to get these perfectly reasonable gentlemen to listen

void atlas
inland apex
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"there is no useless Matri loot"

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some of that loot would be great for a zerker or things but is so prohibitively expensive to build in volume / setup that it's on the maybe never pile.

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not to mention how many times overloaders that build 3 drop, or fighters or controlbots, or augs that you'd never build.

haughty totem
inland apex
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7 Triangle BP's

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have dropped ever, the good ones I have seen 2 in my time drop.

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9 LAA's, 11 Desist(i have only seen 3 or 4 drop), 2 sets of healing drones, 1 set of dps drones in 6 months? of 5x clears/week

distant charm
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There's nothing to admit

inland apex
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it should drop less

distant charm
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Maybe, it just is right now

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I'm not arguing that

wet knot
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Surely

void atlas
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Your only recourse is to meticously log your runs and drops until you have sufficient data for them to give a look

distant charm
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I have looked

wet knot
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I mean this with all due respect, but if the majority of the player base is saying there’s a skew vs the dev team, the track record on this kind of stuff speaks for itself. Hence wanting to create a community sheet trying to illustrate the discrepancies

distant charm
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Some things are really complex, like the spawns in KD for example. It's hard for one dev to look at it and know what is going on exactly

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with this, that's not the case. You can look at the drop table, and you can look at the function used to randomly choose items from it. Which have already been done

inland apex
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does the server have analytics? you could look at the distribution

distant charm
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Only for some things, not in this case

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each data piece you decide to store has a cost associated with it, so it's not enabled for everything

wooden wadi
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even more of those on the shop for dirt cheap, they never sell

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wtb some kind of bp sink

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but im also fine with stuff just being rare

brazen slate
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Lots of crap items that didn't need to exist. Why would you spend similar build costs to make the bifurcated arsenal when you really want a trifurcated.

wooden wadi
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but yea the bifurcated and trifurcated are a bit lul

brazen slate
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I'm sure, but a lot of these are just degraded versions of the better ones instead of unique items.

wooden wadi
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honestly thats fine, whats wild to me is the same build cost.

brazen slate
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Right.

inland apex
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Why would you want bis, when you can half bis for the same price

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and 2x as many items required to NF

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I even looked at some items, to build being dirt cheap but when they cost almost the same it's like why bother when there are alternate items that are cheaper and work out better in short and long term

frail crater
granite swallow
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Then the builds were changed

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So now they kinda... are just lower quality and cost a lot to build still

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I don't really know what to do with them, willing to take some suggestions

inland apex
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of all the exotics, look at the items, look at all the blue/green alternatives and items around that tier/level and make them fill niches they do not, or be downgraded version of the exalteds

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because the current problem is most the exotics don't even beat the blue/green alternatives

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if you gotta get a BP, build the thing it should be better than a dropped item by far

modern palm
inland apex
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Add mods perhaps?

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Reduce size change mods?

crisp torrent
# modern palm I made a feedback post a while ago. Cutting some of the build cost would be nice...

Changing the NF process for exotics as a way to justify the costs for these items is a bit backwards. There are more than just these exotics in game.

I agree that exotics should be given a bit more NF love, but the Matriarch exotics just cost too much. They cost more than their exalted counterparts because of the need for the Uncommon base items.

It is easy to see that they should not cost the same amount.

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distant charm
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The exotics were removed from the exalted Bps and the exotic costs never got reduced

granite swallow
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I think halving the costs and removing the T21 modules would be fine.

crisp torrent
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So we're clear, what part of the blueprint is the cost?

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When I said cost I mean the initial and periodic materials as a whole, not just credits.

granite swallow
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Both initial and periodic materials

topaz swift
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Im not convinced lowering the cost of these items justifies their existence

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They still are overall worse items then their exalted counterparts even without accounting for the NF process you would need to go through to make them min-maxed

granite swallow
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Exotic Items are going to be a little worse than their exalted counterparts, generally.

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Especially when they have the same augmods/stat combinations

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Why is that a problem if they are significantly less expensive to build?

topaz swift
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I feel like the moment you get an exalted version you will then be facing a sunken cost if you ever invested in their exotic counterparts

granite swallow
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Why would it be sunken cost? If you have upgraded the Exotic version enough to where its well neuroforged with the mods you want, the Exalted version will only be better once you've spun the Neuroforge wheel a few times.

Getting better gear is the best way to get faster at getting better gear tbh.

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Right now the cost is too high for the Exotic stuff, and some of the one-off exotic items are inappropriately statted. I plan on addressing that. Otherwise I see no issue with this.

Other games do this all the time, like WoW/Neverwinter Online/etc. where they will have the lower quality item be a little worse than the higher quality item but still take some amount of time to get.

hearty goblet
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IF

granite swallow
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Yeah which is generally why you wait until you get an item with good base mods right?

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That's what I was always told to do by end game players, just wait until you get an item with 2-3 good baseline mods and then you throw a bindo and NF it

hearty goblet
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i mean yea, or just keep rerolling till you get the best first 2 mods from bindo rerolling the same item

granite swallow
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Yup

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If Exotic items are significantly cheaper to build than the Exalted ones, I can very easily see people having a solid reason to build them

topaz swift
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Im suggesting you would need to do more then lowering the cost of the exotics to make them worth building.
How about having them drop from the minis instead of matriarch if giving them some sort of unique competitive edge absent of their exalted versions isn't on the table?

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Or having them drop fully built

granite swallow
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You're not clarifying why they need a competitive edge other than being more plentiful and less expensive to build than Exalted. The point made earlier in this thread about Exotic items being difficult to Neuroforge are Exotic items that are either incredibly expensive to build (Matriarch) or are not as plentiful as they should be (Gonzales/Angre).

Addressing the cost of building so that blueprints that exist but that are not being built, for Matriarch, will make it less frustrating to NF them. And making more sources for Exotics, by (for example) adjusting Angre/Gonzales in some way so that their exotic items are more plentiful will address that issue as well.

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The feedback in this thread regarding exotics is largely centered on those two examples.

granite swallow
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This is, like all things, subject to change/evolving. But for right now that's the direction we're moving in.

wooden wadi
inland apex
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Why would anyone build something when you can farm 50 of an item in 1/50th of the time for perfect NF stats

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They also don't even fill a niche

modern palm
granite swallow
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OK.

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When it comes to changing the stats on existing Lustrous items, as Taint pointed out, I'm wary of doing something like that when people may have already picked those items and use them in their build somehow. Changing the stats on stuff thats been in the game for a very long time, years at this point, is kinda dicey because you can easily mess up the performance of something someone already built around.

And, not everything needs to be immediately and clearly useful to everyone.

brazen slate
# granite swallow When it comes to changing the stats on existing Lustrous items, as Taint pointed...

It is true that not everything needs to be immediately and clearly useful. But historically most useless items do not become viable. Most of the instances you can name out there are oddballs. I would encourage that we NOT have so much garbage in newer content. I would rather get more feed items for building or scrap items than have space taken up in an already anaemic droprate by items that are by all counts second rate.

TLDR: Just don't design lame versions of better stuff in the same zone.

inland apex
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I experimented with alternative items I have enough to NF for bots and things but the statspread on some items just will never be usable and it's truly a wonder why you'd even bother implementing things because some thing just will not be used.

distant charm
void atlas
signal shard
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it's the stupid cost of exotic build items. doesn't matter if it's oly or matri or tech 35. it's cost. the power of having 7 mods + NF mod on most uncommon items that you can mass farm (trackers, dgs, lockouts) is way better than having NF+10 and 1 or 0 secondary mod Exotic because that's actually all you could afford compared to the fully maxed out uncommon.

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and exalted items are just better for very little extra cost.

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each matri item is like a 200-300b build. and you say I need something like 10 fighters for 1 FC?

granite swallow
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Yeah so I've already addressed the cost of the matri exotics for next patch.

frail crater
granite swallow
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I will look into the skewed distribution of drops. All of the settings have it set up so that each item has the same chance of dropping, but I'll look into it.

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Using our server side tools, its just RNG.

wet knot
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I know it’s set up that way but like I would swear on my life that something is skewing it

granite swallow
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Yeah I just checked and they all have the exact same chance to drop, that's what the server is spitting out. And its the same chances that the server uses when giving a drop in anything else.

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If I set it to give me a sample roll of like, 30 items, there are some duplicates because randomness doesn't mean you get a different thing every roll

distant charm
wet knot
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I would widewawwy swaw on my wife

granite swallow
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True randomness can result in a streak of like 5-6 instances of the same outcome

frail crater
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yes but it isn't a small sample size