#Some desync, rubberbanding and shots going through enemies, also getting shot by invisible weapons

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

fluid chasm
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https://youtu.be/ZzfA_ChSmQw
Here is a video where the LAAA goes through an AI, a few tests. Including one where it didnt land while before it did. This is likely because of a change in the Z-axis (sun/planet)
https://youtu.be/EzPkjYlFCmQ
And here I fight BK, some weird rubberbanding going on and getting hit by invisible weapons.

While both are in BK since its what I have seen the most visible, this also happens in some CE bosses and I heard trackers get the same problem.
It might be related to rangers, or the AI, its hard to tell.

YouTube
Tibbits
Collision not working
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YouTube
Tibbits
rubberbanding and random hits
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chrome light
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There's been long standing instances of desync in Rifts. But we haven't found a common thread yet

fluid chasm
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I always have experienced some rubber banding and desync, mainly in instances. Same as sometimes hits not connecting.
But from what I have seen, its becomming worse

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ANd hits not connecting seems to be related to Z-axis changing

sly moss
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I believe it has to do with torps. You get the same issue infrequently with TBFDs. though i never noticed the Z aspect. A lot of times id notice it in random DGs back when i used those exclusively for boss take downs.

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when it happens with TBFDs its ALL the drones missing at the same time, and sometimes they will continue to go through the target and you have to scoop and redeploy for them to start hitting.

trail valve
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I'm having this happen a lot om ranger especially near planets I'm still well within range and shots clear miss with laaa

minor halo
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This sounds like the torpedo issue I reported to Roh and in the Disciples meeting in August when the player is on the "high ground" because of planetary bodies.

chrome light
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That's z axis related. Different

minor halo
chrome light
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Ah well that's all intended if player or targets z axis changes

minor halo
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It only happens with torps/thoraxes. All other weapon types hit.

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If the target is on higher z axis, they still hit. This is only an issue if the player is higher than the target because of z axis

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@lyric gyro I've already talked with you about this and in the meeting

lyric gyro
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Yep

lyric gyro
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which is true

chrome light
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Yeah cause they're different

lyric gyro
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Like beams 100% never have this problem

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they can "aim up"

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It's not like it's impacting the SOB

chrome light
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Beams draw a line. Pulses have consistent speed. Torps use different formula due to speed up and burn

lyric gyro
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But yeah this is totally different then desynch

minor halo
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So, what you're saying is Pulses, Magcannons, and Beams can all fire up and down on the Z axis, but Thoraxes and Torpeods can only fire up on the Z axis, but not down.

lyric gyro
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confusing to put into the same thread

minor halo
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Hey @fluid chasm @trail valve @sly moss you wanna talk about desync or torpedos missing their targets?

lyric gyro
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Yeah the first post has vids of both

fluid chasm
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IT was about both since I experienced both at the same time

lyric gyro
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As for the desynch, really only Jey can help us

chrome light
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Yeah I forwarded to him already

fluid chasm
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Could focus on the missing shots, and let our lord and saviour jey break his brains about the desync

lyric gyro
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Yeah there really isn't much to discuss, send examples to jey and if he wants me to try to reproduce something to help him he can message me

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As for the torpoedo thing, I don't think I have much to say about that either. I'll bring the vids to a meeting and see what others say

chrome light
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I'll look at code again.

minor halo
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Mine are already posted in there if you want me to just bump them

fluid chasm
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Feel free to use mine as well

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Also, if someone ends up trashing my great sniper, send me screenies!

chrome light
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Ranger

sly moss
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I dont use tbfds much anymore, but it would happen every now and then. If i find a way to add them to my usual drones again ill try to get video of it. Once they get in the "miss" lock state they do not revert and all projectiles will go through the target without hitting and track back to try and hit, they still wont hit if they do have enough tracking time left. The only way to adjust or fix this is to scoop all the drones and lay new ones.

lyric gyro
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It's the positioning of the drone and the thing it's shooting is the issue, if the situation is unfavorable to z-axis angles, you need to move them

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It's not a "state" but a position

sly moss
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I dont recall it being only when one or the other was on a sun or something..but since you cant sit drones on a sun or planet this probably needs some tweaking for the drone weapons.

lyric gyro
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If you have a video to prove otherwise, I'd love to see it.

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Could be that the drones are somehow getting displaced on the z axis

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weirder things have happened

fluid chasm
lyric gyro
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I don't think a ranger is called a ranger because it ranges lol

sly moss
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shrugs ill see what i can do. ive been talking about it for years and when TBFDs were popular it never got traction or attention. I cant be the only player who has seen it.

lyric gyro
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If it happens with tbfds it'll likely happen with any torp drone

fluid chasm
lyric gyro
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unless like, the literal angle of the drone model sets what point in the z axis the projectile fires from

sly moss
lyric gyro
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So certain drones are more conducive to being more off cocked on the z axis

lyric gyro
sly moss
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I dont see most of the angles and things. I have to play with the Orthographic camera on. I get motion sick otherwise. No idea why..it just really screws with my eyes.

lyric gyro
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Yeah you can't see any of this in ortho, but it does indeed have gameplay effects

sly moss
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A few challenges then.. I need to try to play without ortho, find an instance when they go off kilter and get video. If i manage it I want a gold star on my homework for doing so well.. sucks tracking down issues like this.

lyric gyro
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Oh, no you don't

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I just need to see them missing when not on a sun and when the target isn't on a sun

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that can be on ortho

sly moss
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can it? oh that makes life easier.

lyric gyro
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I'm just saying that Ortho eliminates z axis information from your gameplay which can make it hard to see how the z axis is impacting your gameplay

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usually doesn't matter much and the impact on the sob matters more

sly moss
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i quit using drones with exclusively torp weapons for that reason. they were unreliable and it usually happened exactly when you dont want it.

chrome light
slender bloom
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torpedos dont seem to be able to do any tracking in z

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ethereal ones still seem to work (at least most of the time) since they can go through the suns/planets but if you watch as close as you can get to the plane they dont seem to track in Z either

frigid wagon
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i didnt read it all, but if you say its a z position issue, then does it only happen when fighting near planets / suns ?

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or are you saying its because the torp move up on the z axis for a bit on launch and end up missing when the target is too close ?

lyric gyro
lyric gyro
frigid wagon
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mmm, well the visual part of it (where it looks as if its going behind the sun), is just a rendering issue, projectiles are in the own pass but ill have to check to make sure they render last.

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it missing is definitly weird tho...

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should be fairly simple to create a test scenario reproducing it 100% of the time using a non moving planet or sun and a drone i guess

fluid chasm
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Yeah, reproducibg it seems easy, in that video it was working exactly as i expected it

slender bloom
atomic yoke
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I brought this up the other week and was told i was "literally describing sun tanking" and it was intended 🤷‍♂️

chrome light
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I mean you just said on top of planets. They're describing target is even slightly elevated

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Not really the same thing.

atomic yoke
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I'll need to ensure I describe the issues in more detail next time I report something to ensure it doesn't just get misunderstood I guess. Or just not bother wasting my time reporting 🤷‍♂️

chrome light
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I'm sorry. There was a lot of moving parts even in this Convo with instances vs not. I need to ask more specific questions as well.

hot nest
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to add to the desync pile; phoenix dg ai have their position desync when moving and activating their rebirth super
edit: same goes for glaucopennia

fluid chasm
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Can confirm, but cause is likely different

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Or the cause is the supers firing, that could be interesting

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From all AI that seem to desync/rubberband use supers

sly moss
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that happens with all the trackers too, if theres desync or rubber banding its usually combined with super use.

minor halo
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Supers that make a change in the user's maximum speed and causes them to halt in place or slow down

frigid wagon
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got a specific one in mind ?

minor halo
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BNF stopping to do the suction super
BK stopping to do the long ranged beams super
Most tracker AI stopping to do the large cone beam super

lyric gyro
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These didnt used to cause desynch too

minor halo
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It was much worse before you did this potential fix back in January, but it is still there.

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lyric gyro
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That one was from attack patterns, mainly one on ice picks

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Icepicks had both a super that did this and a attack pattern. So im pretty sure they still desynch

minor halo
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Could be that a change in speed, acceleration, and/or turning all affect it

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I have seen the facing direction of Delquad Station in Ruined Sanctuary desync. That's one that changes turning speed semi-regularly

chrome light
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Yeah possible

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Good call out, Nuke

frigid wagon
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that specific one should resync when you /f tho, so if it stays wrong even after /f its something weirder

slender bloom
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they will resync if you tractor them as well, so dont even need /f

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but its still annoying

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especially when its something like RS delquad station where you have to stay behind it and it suddenly turns to face you

lyric gyro
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ya know I wonder if we already did a fix for this, but we just haevn't patched for so long due to the server issues I forgot

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If ya'll would be interested jumping in on a beta client into test2 and taking a look at the same stuff

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@frigid wagon Could it be something that's hard to reproduce on test?

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cause I 100% did work on this a few weeks back

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I'm actually pretty sure we did

slender bloom
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I can go on test 2

lyric gyro
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I've opened that server up. Let me know if you want me to spawn you a tracker or something

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do ./f to get map

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I'm not 100% sure if the fix is client+server and you need a current beta client.

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You can start on the live client

slender bloom
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says disabled for everyone

lyric gyro
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try again please!

slender bloom
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got it thanks

lyric gyro
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Let me know if you need anything

slender bloom
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with the map should be good

lyric gyro
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cool

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I'm afking a attuned tracker in fallen gas just watching it

slender bloom
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not fixed on live client (orange circle is where BNF SHOULD be, but he's clearly not)

image.png
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will check delta client next

lyric gyro
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Not delta client, just the beta client

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the one right here

image.png
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when patched, should have this version

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lyric gyro
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I hopped on test2 with live client to see if I can get bnf to desynch like that

slender bloom
lyric gyro
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ok let me use my vpn to increase mine

slender bloom
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I can also try turning off vpn and checking

lyric gyro
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Oh, are you stealthy?

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(I don't bnf solo stealthy often idk how it's radar stats are)

slender bloom
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pretty sure it has admin (or at least insanely good) radar, it always sees me, and with SD there is always firing vis

lyric gyro
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damn can't seem to get it to do it

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on a live client

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even with 300 ms

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I was staying behind it as it was sucking and everything

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in case it firing resynched it or something

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are you instance scaled there?

slender bloom
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no 1.0

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the first time it sucked, it resynched very quickly, but still looked like it drifted just a tiny bit beforehand. the second time was the screenshot where it desynched more and didnt resynch for a while

lyric gyro
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ok i saw it

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changing client

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Yeah still seeing it

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alright @frigid wagon , I can reproduce on demand

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I had to make my augs less adminny, stay behind it the whole time, raise my ping

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Still can't get it to drift as far as you got, but good enough

slender bloom
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average server delay ~40 here, so its not entirely related to that. beta client

image.png
atomic yoke
lyric gyro
atomic yoke
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Just to repro the busted super desync stuff, more data points the better i'd assume they are running similar code

lyric gyro
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Sure but what are the reproduction steps, have two characters, have one use that super and have the other watch them?

frigid wagon
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mmm, so might just be a position sync thing, try the chatcommand /nl high

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see if it "fix" it

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if its just a position update not being sent from server properly then this would make it look better and would narrow down what i need to dig out

slender bloom
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idk what mine was before, but it says high is the default, so I'm guessing it was set to that to begin with?

frigid wagon
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yea, it should be

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well, just to rule it out entirely try veryhigh

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just keep in mind that veryhigh is a bit harsh on weaker network as its spamming a lot of little updates

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that command is account wide and stick till server restart, so reset it to /nl high if you have issues

slender bloom
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does seem better

frigid wagon
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you can "lock it" on by adding it to /savecommands if you want. but if it "fix" the bug then its very likely a missing update when that superitem affect the speed

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or maybe the update is sent before the effect is actually applied

lyric gyro
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@slender bloom weve been working even more on this. I may ask you again to come on test today. Ill let you know

lyric gyro
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ok @slender bloom !!! We should have done it.Please do you check on test2 nvm something seems.. up

lyric gyro
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OK yes, shadowwolf please check on test2

slender bloom
# lyric gyro OK yes, shadowwolf please check on test2

beta client, initially testing with some Phoenix looks much better, they actually stop when they use their super item. I can check BNF too, but iether need to find him or if you can give me the map again.

This was also with ASD of ~200ms

lyric gyro
slender bloom
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between BNF and phoenixes, this seems really good. haven't tried other ways to trigger it suggested by others, but for those two it looks great

lyric gyro
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exalted tracker was one

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We didn't make any adjustments to the torpedo Z axis thing quite yet.

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it happens for the first time at :27