#Wildspace = MMORTS Part 1
viscid bear
brittle aurora
Can you summarize in text?
jagged light
He basically is asking for us to make Wild Space a place where a team can be in charge of a "sector" of galaxies, and their control over that sector is based on whether or not the galaxies in that sector all support their reign or not. And then a bunch of sectors form a cluster, and the sector leaders are the ones who choose who controls the cluster.
So basically, some sort of political domination over regions of the map that are based on the galaxy owners choices/votes. And players can just figure out for themselves how to get enough votes to be put into power, because someone has to be in charge.
And then, the points that are accrued from controlling sectors/clusters contribute to teams overall score and we plaster that score on the front page and every single universe it resets and what sectors are where resets so we get giant political intrigue.
I think you can actually attack a Parish in Stronghold kingdoms, and take it over, without directly attacking anyones village. That would be like attacking a galaxy which can claim a sector without being able to attack the galaxies inside that sector, is that makes sense?
wintry jewel
Contiguous teamspace having a solid blob on the map would be really cool
viscid bear
Overview
There are four types of capital: Parish, County, Province and Country. The primary role of the parish capital is to improve all the Villages which exist within in the parish. The parish Castle also allows the Steward to defend the capital, or attack other parishes, AI, and enemy villages. County, province and country capitals have the same functions as parish capitals, except that they do not have productivity-enhancing buildings for parish villages (e.g. Orchard Workers' Guilds etc.) They do however, provide the player who holds the leadership position, with an extra army of a much larger size than normal.
In the grey drop-down menu at the top of the screen, players will see an asterisk (*) next to the name of any capitals they are steward of. All village owners within a parish can see its castle, town and army screens.
Within the the parish capital, the steward is responsible for placing a variety of buildings, most of which increase production for all villages within the parish. All villages within the parish should contribute to upgrading capital buildings in order to maximise their benefits and profit from them. Most town buildings require at least one flag to be able to place them, so it is vitally important to retain your Parish Flags. The steward is also responsible for building and maintaining the parish capital castle and its troops.
you have a cluster of solar system each solar system needs to have a specific owner which can get voted to own a center solarsystem that improves the production output of specific resources that you want in that cluster to be of more importance. example extra colo money extra weapons etcetcetc. Important is you can only build a small amount of them and everybody in the cluster can donate resources to increase the level of them to share improvements. (Teamwork)
So people actualy try to talk to eachother.
Important is only the people inside the cluster can be voted as steward and stewards can only vote people of the capitals and in the end people have to vote for the king (emperor) of the galaxy.
I will need to make more parts so it makes sense, when i have time
jagged light
@viscid bear So basically, for SS, you have a cluster of galaxies and those galaxy owners can take ownership of a special galaxy that can extract and consume a resource that improves the value of the other galaxies in that cluster?
And you need to pull resources from the other galaxies in the cluster in order to support the building of these bonuses, because the galaxy that can unlock those bonuses isn't able to sustain the normal resource costs for building them by itself. So because of that, you need the people who own the other galaxies to work with you so you can maximize the bonuses.
You want this to be done via a voting system, where people are asked if they support X person from Y team owning this galaxy. And if they say no, and there are enough no's to yes' then the person is not allowed to own the galaxy.
My question is this:
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- Why do we need votes? Why can't we just let people take control of the galaxy, and then struggle to make use of any of the bonuses if the people in the surrounding galaxies don't share the resources that these people need? You don't need formal votes in that situation, you just make a commodity that only spawns in that cluster that the normal galaxies have, and then a commodity that only spawns in the central galaxy... and then you make it so in order to unlock a bonus you have to combine those two resources.
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- Theoretically, a team can just own all the galaxies in a cluster and then source the materials to that main galaxy by themselves without having to work with anyone. Is this OK with you?
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- If each cluster is just part of a section of Wild Space, and there's like a capital where there's a governor or something who has to be supported as well, isn't that complex enough? What benefit is there to having the Emperor of the universe be elected as well?
viscid bear
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the point is that the parishes have an extra army which are more powerful than the once in the solar systems. everybody in the parish can be elected to a sheriff of a county which has again a bigger army that you can fill. Its about human roleplay and dominance than just big up should and be happy.
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thats the point people will and should own galaxie but at somepoint thay cant and boarders will form and will need to talk.
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wildspace has to be a 3 months rts game that has a bigger scope than 5 min 2v2 board card game.
jagged light
- How does that translate into Star Sonata? We don't have armies. Are you talking about like, automated assets that you can send to attack another galaxy or something?
viscid bear
i need to make more parts
more like fighter bays with diffrent type of armies that you can fill with your production i guess
i just want to see wildspace more like a boardgame you play over 3 months.
brittle aurora
The problem is wild space isn't a 4x or RTS strategy game. We explored a domination style before removing BvB but any sort of owning others or impacting income and our solely galaxy based systems don't translate.
It works for something like a clash of clans setup.
You'd need something where crafting system is split away and things are more siloed and streamlined for this to work.
viscid bear
you already have c&c kits basicly already the begining
brittle aurora
Already have "what"?
jagged light
I dunno, maybe because a C&C kit pacifies the galaxy and makes it safe?
brittle aurora
I don't understand the relationship
There's too much cross talk between example and suggestion here.
Parishes and extra army doesn't mean anything to me.
brittle aurora
Can you summarize in text?
Can you provide a list of changes to SS that would be required for your idea?
latent scroll
Best way i would interpret this or my idea would be revert to something similar to old ownership system where kits have to be linked with some kind of max systems linked to each ownership kit then something as follows u designate a system capital within that cluster with potential upgrades such as 1 - npc defenders within system only to help defend against mites 2 - Chance of commods spawning in capital system
deep furnace
Make Base Missiles Great Again
jagged light
Yeah but I think the more interesting thing is how to turn Wild Space into more of the 4x scenario people loved...
Without the threat of losing everything you personally invested
That's why I've ben for the implementation of dual states for a galaxy, where it can be Owned by one person and Dominated by another/team.
That way we can do the really intense political intrigue/domination/diplomacy stuff without directly effecting the power fantasy of the player who just wants to build and doesn't care about that stuff.
Right now, everytime I talk to a returning player about Wild Space they're just like... this is so much more boring 🤣. But without the current implementation of wild space, we'd just go back to the wild wild west days of people getting galaxies sniped from under them by other players which drives behavior that results inpeople doing really ruthless stuff so they don't lose their time investment.
leaden abyss
@jagged light talk about it here talk about it there either way something has to change the games going in the wrong direction. I personally would like to play ss again but just cba to invest the time ever again just to take a knife in the back. The new zone sounds cool but id be willing to bet money that sooner or later if someone big starts disputing with certain people the zone gets changed again. Its 100% fact man that cant be disputed or denied things change when certain people get mad. Its not conspiracy its fatcs. To people who didnt see it happen they can be convinced its fake but to the ones who played through it well we know better. Id even go as far to say soon there will be a rule against telling people the truth of the matters. It will be called disinformation
jagged light
Yeah we changed wildspace because of what was going on, I don't see that as backstabbing but it sucked.
We're being really intentional about the Fractured Galaxies because I don't want us having to pull the plug on it like we did before.
But I think we can move more so towards really grand strategic dominance gameplay like what CLXXXIII was asking for with some care
We just gotta figure out how to keep people from losing everything when they lose control over their gal
Because we know from experience that its bad for the playerbase when you can completely wipe out people's means of progressing their characters (production bases) and the time they invested in setting up their team space.
The satisfaction from blowing a team out of WIld Space is not as great as the feeling of misery they have about being demolished, unless you're the type of person who loves to see someone suffering. But designing a game around that type of playstyle isn't going to encourage enough people to show up for that most of the time...
viscid bear
what i learned the last month is that i have to exept that starsonata is a singleplayerngame now and its better just to play starsector.
wintry jewel
Damn, didn't know the rest of the noob squad I regularly team up with to go do content were my alts
brittle aurora
Yeah this idea that there is only one way to play SS frustrates me beyond end.There's plenty of folks that engage in pvp in KD, Peri and Anatolia. There's also plenty of folks that do cooperative play and there's nothing wrong with that either. None of that is single player.
viscid bear
sorry, if you missunderstand me but right now. monopoly or risik has more content than starsonata.
You complain everywhere that SS has no playerbase to super anything. We are not in year 2002 anymore one linear unbalanced pve content is sadly not the tip of the iceberg anymore.
brittle aurora
We lost more people from abusive players than anything else in this game. So I don't buy risk = more players. That's just one player type.
I agree like Hober has laid out we need to find ways for certain players to engage in such but it's not the end all for success
wintry jewel
It's ironic that CLX brings up that it's not 2002 anymore, because that was the time when the supermajority of gaming actually supported risk based PvP.
The world's moved on. The collective playerbase isn't just majority casual, it's supermajority, potentially even hypermajority casual players. It's either PvP with zero loss of resources, and thus no risk other than time, or PvE now. PvP games with risk, and the PvP MMO of yesteryear, are dead. Griefing, and the players who love that play style, killed them.
brittle aurora
I wouldn't say they're dead but the whole game is often marketed as such