#Anatolia - the never ending topic :)

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

analog aspen
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I’m just trying to think of ways for this system to be better and more inclusive for everyone. Right now, let’s just be honest, it’s not worth the time in Anatolia because SoH is just to big and active. SoH OP. Right now it’s a few people from a team and a hoard of SoH people that swarm you and you really can’t do anything. (If you haven’t fought for a Anatolia boss you won’t understand) this is nothing against SoH it’s just that other teams can’t compete with that.

So the idea i have to make this better.. keep the normal roaming ai in Anatolia. But all bosses taxis, strat, and poly should have a max squad size per team.

3-5 for taxi
4-7 for strat
6-10 for poly
(Just throwing some random numbers that seem ok).

What will this do?
-Allow all teams to really fight for emp fairly, no matter the size of the team
-Even small teams can fight for emp and get it

  • you still have to get on and fight for it and put ur best characters forward. Almost gladiator like
  • improve Anatolia activity. Every team will have a real shot. If something like this was put into place i imagine most if not all teams would do Anatolia more because they actually have a chance
  • people will have to really upgrade characters to be solid to fight in the line up

What will this hurt?
Nothing. Everyone can still compete. Everyone can still do Anatolia farming for crests. Big teams like SoH can swap out people so everyone gets to do the bosses.

Regardless if anyone agrees or not, this is a something that will make this system better overall. It will make it inclusive. It will make it more desirable when you don’t have to fight 30 people at once.

This would be better for the Anatolia system as a whole. Pic of current number to show……. It’s just not working and it’s one sided.

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One thing this may do is make the contest a little longer, which imo isn’t a bad thing. Since the team that wins get to tithe everyone for the reminder of the uni.

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@opaque fog

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Doing this would also push away mass MCing. Which is a great thing. equanbutton

opaque fog
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What if people just use alt teams to get around the limits

green bay
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The problem isnt anatolia per se...its the size/activity of the playerbase. Everyone who regularly plays is on one team.

opaque fog
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My second issue is that this would cause teams to exclude tons of team mates.
Hobers counter point is "if you want to do Anatolia but you aren't high enough in the roster to be excluded, you should go to a different team."

green bay
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seems like a nice way to limit team size without limiting team size.

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This isn't new. activity breeds more activity on a certain team. Everyone wants to play with other people. its an MMO

opaque fog
green bay
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Its just those of us who are loyal to a certain team name or a sub-group who arent in favor of the current status quo.

analog aspen
green bay
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it has happened many times

analog aspen
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Something needs to change, i hope we can all at least agree on that.

green bay
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Lag, I honestly think you are looking at this from the wrong angle. I don't think there are inherent issues with anatolia, its just that ther arent enough players to really make this a contest.

analog aspen
green bay
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I mean, the team that made the system is dominating it and is the most active team in game reaping all the benefits 🙄

opaque fog
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There definitely are inherent issues to anatolia, but I do agree that these ones are a bit more existential to the game

analog aspen
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Good feedback + positivity

lament fable
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There's a game called Albion Online that some sort of "grand territory conflict system" where you could only bring 5 for a territory plot, and 20 for a city plot. The thing that this did was it caused everyone else to not get a chance to participate in the system if they didn't have builds and skills that the group leaders felt could contribute.

I think the actual issue being experienced is that a properly geared and coordinated mass of players is just not beatable by a smaller group of people who are similarly geared.

green bay
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ok, well keep focusing on the wrong problems and you will ride your train farther over the cliff

lament fable
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So the issue is "get more players" OR "add some sort of equalizer"

analog aspen
lament fable
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Bases and Permanent Drones are an example of equalizers

analog aspen
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We aren’t Albion online tho. We don’t have thousands of players

lament fable
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I know

analog aspen
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The equalizer is to limit the squad

lament fable
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SoH is always gonna play together until something fractures them apart

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Just like EmF was the dominant team for years

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And Traders

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People want to be on the big dominant team/on the team with their friends

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We just don't have enough people in the game to have multiple big dominant teams

analog aspen
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I’m all for radical changes. Let’s limit team sizes to 50 accounts

lament fable
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The same way you feel about this current Anatolia is the same general feeling people had about the system when Traders and EmF were in charge.

green bay
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I have always liked team size limits. I whined and moaned about them in the past, but I think their benefits far outweigh their issues. They cause more factions, more smaller groups which is exactly what we need in this game given the relative low number of players.

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and can we just be adults?

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lament fable
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Its a lot easier to be for radical changes when your team isn't filled with tons of people who want to play together, and who are active.

green bay
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seriously, is mickey mouse the head mod?

analog aspen
opaque fog
analog aspen
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Idk guys

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I just feel like my suggestion is the easily thing to implement and make things easier and fair for everyone

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It doesn’t hurt team sizes

green bay
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its not going to be fair lag

lament fable
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Its actually not that easy

green bay
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frankly it shouldnt be

lament fable
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I could add some scripting that makes it so the boss freaks out if more than X players are around

green bay
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its supposed to be the top contest

lament fable
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But then it would be easy to screw over your eneimes

green bay
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and they are owning everyone becuase they have the most powerful attribute in this game.

lament fable
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I could make it so it checks tos ee if X players from the same team

green bay
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time spent playing

lament fable
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but you can just bring a third party and only killi players

green bay
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You are trying to code a way to make up for the fact that EmF and TR doesnt have enough players who actually play the game.

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that's unfair.

lament fable
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There's no way around any of tat tbh

green bay
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so you either break up the big teams to make smaller teams more similar to the other teams, or you get over it.

lament fable
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If you want SoH to stop dominating, find some way to merge with another team

green bay
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and you recruit, and build up, and grind content for 2 years, and then maybe you can get some seals

lament fable
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I don't like this system as it is btw

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Its not fine

analog aspen
green bay
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meanwhile, SoH is going to get a few k seals and have maxed skills on 5 alts each

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well, this is the game you applauded and everyone held hands during the last year while TR was over here trying to ring the alarm bells

lament fable
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We left Anatolia in for 10 years while only a few teams farmed seals from it on repeat

analog aspen
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Limit squad sizes for the Anatolia bosses. Just makes the most sense.

green bay
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no

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make the game dangerous again

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make it so you can actually threaten people with actual consequences

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even though you have to go to KD for some content, there are so few players playing at any given time, that its silly to think that any real conflict will ensue.

lament fable
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I don't think we're ever going to let people wipe out other people's entire wild space holdings, but we could theoretically add onto it in some way so you can get some real conflict...

green bay
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the only risk is missing out on anatolia

lament fable
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I would prefer if there were special gals where you could lose them because they can be attacked but im not in charge of any of that

green bay
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let me nuke someones gal, then I get a tithe out of it, but they can rebuild it and then my bases defend their unless they try to revolt and kill my siege kits.

analog aspen
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Erman i don’t think your being helpful here honestly. You’re just mentioning things not about Anatolia. I understand there are 1000s of underlying issues with the game and this and that….. i know you could go on about. (Not trying to be rude).

But I’m giving feedback for a system that is clearly one sized and wanting a better way. For everyone. Not just my team.

green bay
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I think you are trying to band-aid a bigger issue

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and this just a symptom of a larger problem.

lament fable
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Limiting the size of the team that can participate in the fight is not going to do what you want it to do

green bay
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squad size hurts SoH and maybe helps other teams.

lament fable
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I don't even think it hurts SoH

green bay
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its naked targetting SoH

lament fable
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They'd just split up into groups and still kill people

green bay
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for a while until they had to really make a choice about who gets the points...but only if they are on different teams.

lament fable
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Like they'd get the highest dps pve squad to do the boss

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even if they were on different teams

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they'd just split the seals

green bay
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for a while, im sure they would

opaque fog
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They'd just split up into groups and still kill people

And that isn't something you can "just fix" we'd have to jump through tons of hoops to try to mitigate it. At that point I'd prefer trashing this system I'd already like to move away from (see the most 2nd recent dev post that mentions anatolia)

green bay
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everyone just wants immediate results and everything to be great with a single change. gotta look further into the future imo

analog aspen
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Alright

green bay
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Yeah, that didn't really go how you wanted it to, i suspect

opaque fog
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Trust me lag, I want a design that does encapsulate what you want, unfortunately the solution you've put forward us one that has already been milled over a lot and deemed not something that will help or even be possible to work.

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Something where permanent assets /semi permanent assets and risk are involved are what we are thinking about.

green bay
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I do think that a timed system where the competition goes for 2-4 weeks and then the team with the most points wins would probably be better? would just stretch it out, make the tithe last a shorter period of time. maybe put a minimum in place, but no upper limit.

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you open up WS. I can guarantee you there will be another team ready to compete.

opaque fog
green bay
analog aspen
lament fable
dark otter
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Decrease influence from bosses and increase from normal mobs, No boss warning timers, but keep the all chat message to alert when fight is engaged. Farming the normal mobs between fights should be encouraged to keep people in the area. It is quite profitable as it is with regards to the trade ins, but influence wise it's very slow.

lament fable
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Could work

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As long as its not possible to sit in a single galaxy and vacuum all the AI up I guess

steep valve
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Right now, influence is split via damage done to the boss. Tbh this might actually discourage alliances. If you were a support character, there's no way to truly ally with another team during a boss kill, as you won't get any % of the influence split.

What if: influence is split evenly across all teams included in a party.

That way, hober for example, could squad up with Lag, and both their teams get equal split of the influence. This would allow for easier, more seamless alliances that could challenge a larger, more active team without the worry of one partner getting more influence during a kill vs the other partner(s)

lament fable
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I like that idea. I dunno if it would address the other issues brought up.

dark otter
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Lag and hober vs 40 SoH toons, let's see it 😂

steep valve
# lament fable I like that idea. I dunno if it would address the other issues brought up.

What are the other issues you are alluding too here? (trying to stay on topic here, and discuss small/short term solutions until a borader rework/change can happen from Roh). The main issue I see being discussed, is its super hard to tackle a large, active team.

Squad limits for an emp contest would feel, bad. Emp contests in SS have almost always boiled down to N+1. Who can field the most people (or characters) to conquer the others. Like, the problem here isn't that SoH is too big, its that SS doesn't have enough active players to support multiple large teams to create a fair contest. The solve here: is to do things to generate more active players, rather than restricting the activity of the current playerbase.

Back on topic. How to tackle a large team. The easiest answer is an alliance, which we've seen informally countless times in SS's past. But, the mechanics of the current contest are rather counter to a true alliance, because of how the influence is dolled out. If your team isn't getting a fair cut of the influence per kill, than the alliance probably dies. Allowing the influence to be dolled out based on: damage done per squad, and then split equally among teams within each squad, allows us to have a pseudo alliance system

dark otter
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I think having a team with like 70%+ of active players on it kinda kills the vibe for a lot of people, and the rest don't want to be pushed into a forced alliance to counter it. I think the suggestions I made above would improve the activity in Anatolia and spread the influence a little better, this was the breakdown of how I got to 100k as a solo:
2x T1 solos = 60k
1x Tiny share of T1 after being steamrolled = 1.8k
1x Share of T2 = 20k
20 hours of grinding normal mobs = 20k
1k Influence an hour was really poor but the trade ins are what was keeping me going.
But theres no real push for PvP, as SoH just wait for timers, run in, kill and run out, basically making it a PvE fight. 1 hours work got me 80% of my influence and 20 hours work for the other 20%, and barely any PvP in the process.

noble mountain
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well well, all is good as it is:

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lament fable
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And an alliance can run for emp and if the Alliance wins emp the seals are split up amongst the teams in the Alliance.

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So a Team could run, or an Alliance can run

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I also like your idea of splitting based on squad

steep valve
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I just figured a true alliance system would be a Pita to code, so I tried to adapt it to what we curently have 😬

lament fable
hoary sigil
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An alliance type system is something I'd be interested in doing. It is a bit of work but it does open up some interesting opportunities.

supple lintel
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Damn the dev from soh doesn't like lags solution that's brazy who would have thought 🤔 😆 🤣

analog aspen
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Tho no one agrees. I feel like a squad limit for each boss when it spawns per team is the simplest solution

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Even playing field

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But the conversation, like always, turned in to 20 different conversations

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With erman being the cranky old man in the back yelling about the old days

supple lintel
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I mean I'm not a fan of the new system I think it doesn't feel very SS anymore but whatever 🤷 a 10man sqaud where the leader of said squad would receive influence amd could be crowned emp would work you could be locked in to said sqaud world of war craft I'm their first iteration of arena systems made it so were locked into an arena system for a seas

median osprey
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The current Anatolian contest doesn't really do it for me---it feels like a perfectly reasonable PvP mini-game but I don't think it's necessarily the right thing for "emperor of the universe". Despite how long it may take, it's my personal hope to see some sort of subjugation-based mechanism that has more in common with the old system. The idea of tithing galaxies for influence after capturing them, while still enabling the original owners to use them as normal, vibes well with me for an emp. system.

supple lintel
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Who cares if squads of a team work together surely it will sort it self out or you know the admins could actually do their job and punish actions that go against what this system would be trying to do

median osprey
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To improve the current PvP mini-game, squad limits feel perfectly reasonable by the way.

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I don't like this particular mini-game for emperor. I think it's fine for a PvP zone though.

supple lintel
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Many games have arenas or some pvp system and they punish win trading as well as other actions that go against the spirit of competition

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Our dev and admin team are extremely lazy so I doubt that will happen

median osprey
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Given that League of Legends suffers from an epidemic of win traders at the top level, I think it's probably a hard issue to completely prevent or stop.

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Even with a full time staff that's working on the problem, etc.

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If we're going to stick to the current system, it might be nice to give smaller teams better tools to deal with a zerg rush / rat storm.

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Like bases 🥲

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Squad limits are wonky and unimmersive but also an option.

pearl cypress
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For rewards, something like a set reward for each place, rather than award that is scaled to first place might incentive more to play. That way even if you dont get super high you at least have some fixed rewards you can see beforehand to aim for, so that you know if you get 5th or something youll get 20 chests etc.

Per Jira's note, one way is some non-MMOs have power adjustments per squad/group/stack size. So if only 1 squad per team was allowed in, but that squad could have 3 people or 13, the squad with 3 would get bonus % to attack and defense, while the 13 would get a negative adjustment. 13 would still be better but per person diminishing returns would set in, etc.., Anyway just one way think about.

median osprey
supple lintel
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If we are being honest here majority of people that actually cared about pvp are long gone ss would be better off completely removing emperor and make some kind of building competition or a race around the universe

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Ooo or a prospecting competition where you have to find the golden egg

hoary sigil
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We were originally going to do that, until I got around to implementing it and thought about it.

median osprey
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Alt teams still have to beat real teams. I don't think it's that big of a deal.

steep valve
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Its a bit off topic for the current discussion, but I actually think the boss invulnerability mechanic makes it a lot more difficult to steal influence when faced with a larger team controlling the boss.

You have to be incredibly coordinated about how and when to strike against a larger team directing t2 or t3 boss. If you warp in while its invuln, they can swarm and wipe you. A great counter to a large swarm are stealthy or ranged characters, but an Invuln phase gives the team time to pause and hunt down stealthy snipers/sd/seers.

hoary sigil
median osprey
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The current system just skips that step, doesn't it? 🥲

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We got like over 90% of the seals

hoary sigil
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Sure

median osprey
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The runner ups got like 15 and 2 respectively.

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They should have gotten more

hoary sigil
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That is correct.

median osprey
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And we probably less

hoary sigil
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Perhaps; maybe we can re-evaluate if it would be that much of a problem.

supple lintel
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Surprised emf even cares with the years of seal farming

median osprey
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I think it's a mistake to tell people they can't give input on a new system just because the old one sucked too.

supple lintel
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Still it takes a certain level of shamelessness to complain about getting dominated when your team dominated for years

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Soh isn't exactly undefeated here they lost emp to traders maybe the systems fine

lament fable
supple lintel
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Is anyone actually surprised emf is losing here soh houses some strong pvpers emf wasn't exactly a power house of pvp players their strengths were in building bvb and wealth building none of these skills translate to the new system

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Maybe we should stop pretending the new system is the problem

analog aspen
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I do not understand people’s thought process

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More like lack of thought i guess

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Anyway, discussion is good. Look forward to see what the dev team spins up with all the debate around this.

opaque fog
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Lag, to put it simply to make your idea work it would be the same amount of work for me to make a whole new better system.. so instead that's what I'm going to do.

supple lintel
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Sounds like something someone running a double vazuk gunner would say

analog aspen
analog aspen
wide sparrow
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IMO i don't think you should fix the problem by creating a new problem. Majority of the players will always team up with the dominating team. Its Safe, people like safe. The only thing that i would adjust is the rewards.

  • Imperial Tithe, perfectly (Everyone should pay tithe besides the emperor, Emp should have option to exclude own team or not from emp tith). Should go into team wealth. The leadership can distribute it along their players or not of course.
  • The honor of being EMP. Notification on the website, special skin for the emp that Remaining Universe. Sound effect when the emp warps in your galaxy " All hail emp ...."

But that's it! Nothing more!

The winning team get richer, can help their people grow. Invest their funds in the economy. Everyone can benefit from it, hell even buy plex for it.

lament fable
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Yeah maybe you're right, maybe seals being connected to it makes it even more frustrating somehow.

wide sparrow
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Perhaps make it a bit more interesting. Make it possible for the emp to convert Credits into max 4 Plex on getting emp. Make it expensive like a good money drain. 4x plex each uni as a money sink. I would take it 😛
Of course each universe can support only 1 emperor.