doom-2016

[cold root]

asked this because they have quite a few stuff that isn't really boomer shooter stuff

like often getting health and armor by killing enemies instead of picking up ones already placed in the map

[halcyon bear]

They play like quake so ya

[snow heron]

They definitely at there cores use the same and or similar gameplay loop. So yeah

I think graphics do make up apart of that genre and if Doom didn’t have its roots as a boomer shooter in the past I would have disagreed

[elder meadow]

I'm gonna be honest, the bosses are kinda easy

Fun but easy

true

cyberdemon is a joke just like in og doom

Og cyberdemon is so easy to dodge its hilarious

Eternal made him a threat

[tepid jolt]

I genuinely struggle more with the 2016 cyberdemon than the Eternal Tyrant. In general modern Doom bosses tend to throw me off my rhythm and are kind of difficult for me

[wise cape]

in my playthrough of Doom one he got stuck in the small pick ups room

[elder meadow]

He did that for me too

Was annoying to get him out

[wise cape]

it's fine, tbh I've been strugling with D3 while having a pretty easy time with 1, 2 and 64

[wise cape]

LMAO, for me he just randomly got out at one point

[latent jewel]

on nightmare difficulty?

[wise cape]

no, on veteran

[latent jewel]

bc on nightmare I guess that original Dooms are harder to play than newer ones -for good players but not the ones who been playing day and night

[elder meadow]

og doom on nightmare is like so much harder than modern doom games on nightmare

the enemies keep respawning its frustrating

[wise cape]

I guess the Archvile is fired then

[latent jewel]

I would play on nightmare just to count how many demons I can kill in one run, but never expected to end the game. Although there are probably a lot of guys who finished the game on nightmare. Did not bother to check. (After many iterations)

[wise cape]

I forgot if enemies do respawn in Doom 64 on Watch Me Die, since I've started a playthrough on that difficulty

[latent jewel]

I remember the first time I played Doom DM. At a friends home on LAN. 1995 or smth. He supposed to be the big deal in the group. I only played SP. I did not see any LAns untill then. He was a bit concerned bc I was considered by all to be the one with the potential. Instinctively I felt his displeasure when I accepted his challenge. He was wearing that t-shirt with Numero Uno written on his chest. The match started and he made a few frags on me, maybe 10. After that I observed that he tended to play automatically doing the same moves, so I countered him. In the end he lost with maybe 20 or 30 frags difference. And also a few buttons on his keyboard. Which he blamed for his loss. Of course that his kb was at fault. he had to save face. experienced players and so on and me for the 1st time. It was not that I was better than him with movement but that the game allowed the player to use his thinking -if you had the required speed. This was before ppl discovered the miracle the ssg can do in a match. And this was the beauty of that game. Brain over speed and automatism. You rarely find such games these days. Long story short lol.

[tepid jolt]

Archeviles in old Nightmare just make respawns happen early sometimes.

[halcyon bear]

Long story short

[winter stream]

Proof of concept for a mancubus with shootable weakpoints in D2016
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/832527578891944006/1092576537963941888/DOOMx64vk_2023-04-03_15-25-07.mp4

[halcyon bear]

Very nice broski!

[tepid jolt]

Has anyone ever gotten an ai version of the multiplayer only demons working?

[still lily]

not possible really. until we get md6 and can make them ourselves

the closest ive seen is some of Toyota's attempts to remake harvester but it's just a summonor reskin with new attacks

same with prowler imp

only possible due to them sharing skeletons with certain demons

[winter stream]

Mp bots might be the key. Only thing is bots as player demons seems to crash (at least in snapmap)

[snow heron]

This looks really good

[elder meadow]

Would love for a prowler to be a enemy

[winter stream]

It's possible to give an Imp a prowler model, though one of the legs bugs out

[tepid jolt]

What does the Harvester do anyway? I’ve heard it mentioned a few times but know nothing about it due to not playing multiplayer

[winter stream]

Fires a beam that drains the target's health/armor to charge a secondary attack that fires multiple powerful blasts in a spread

[tepid jolt]

That sounds really powerful

[winter stream]

The player demons are meant to be the equivalent of a power weapon

[echo anvil]

Hi guys, i'd like to get all doom 2016 trophies on steam, how can I easly get the online ones? I have tryed to play and there is none there

[tepid jolt]

Do you have friends who you can convince to play online with you? If not then I think you’re out of luck

[cold root]

it would be very cool if there were enemy Harvesters

unlike Prowlers, they didn’t appeared in Eternal

[tepid jolt]

Were they the only multiplayer only demons?

[cold root]

yes

[tepid jolt]

Thanks. I never noticed during the campaign that there are apparently only 16 single player demons. I guess that speaks to the ingenuity of the level designers

[cold root]

DE had about twice that amount of enemy types, right?

[tepid jolt]

Give or take a few yeah

[thorny olive]

Never realized there were 16

Too busy having fun

[tepid jolt]

Unless you count DLC in which case Eternal has more like triple that count

[thorny olive]

I still haven't played tag

😭

[tepid jolt]

It’s much harder than the base game, but also much more memorable in terms of combat encounters

[thorny olive]

I bought it but then got distracted by classes and also playing other games so it's just been sitting in my library for like a year

[cold root]

in regards to enemy types in games, a low amount of enemy types that are all distinct from one another is better than dozens of enemies but many of them are nothing more than the same thing imo

[tepid jolt]

I agree.

[thorny olive]

You mean like possessed zombies and the hell zombies?

[tepid jolt]

Eternal’s are mostly distinct too though

[cold root]

most enemies in Classic Doom are the exact same thing

walking towards you, firing a projectile and meleeing you if you are close

[tepid jolt]

Not quite, but they’re definitely very similar a lot of the time

[thorny olive]

Well hell knights are just mini versions of barons

Well they're not mini but

[tepid jolt]

They’re pretty simple but usually each have one or two weird properties to set them apart

[thorny olive]

They have less health and I think do less damage right

[tepid jolt]

Just half the health

Damage is the same

[cold root]

Imps, Barons, Hell Knights and Cacodemons are all pretty similar

[thorny olive]

I wouldn't consider shotgun zombies and the other zombies similar though

[cold root]

not to mention Arachnotrons are weaker projectile firing Spiderdemons

[tepid jolt]

Similar but the differences are very important. Hell Knights have very low pain chance so unlike cacodemons you can’t stunlock them, Cacodemons flight is a big deal in a game with no jumping, etc

[thorny olive]

I'm confused are we talking about classic doom demons or

[tepid jolt]

Classic Doom

[thorny olive]

Oh yeah then I can see they're fairly close in terms of character archetypes

[tepid jolt]

There’s clear archetypes in classic Doom but they still have things to set them apart. Usually things that are subtle but make a big difference

[thorny olive]

Yeah it's sort of over simplifying it

I mean sure imps and barons do basically the same thing

Walk towards you and hurl fireballs

[tepid jolt]

Like you don’t realize how big a deal it is that cacodemons can fly until you’re playing a map where they just ignore dropoffs most demons can’t get past

[thorny olive]

But imps are numerous and barons are not as plentiful

Imps also die in like 1 or 2 shotgun shots where barons are tanks and that alone sort of changes the way you approach them in a room

[tepid jolt]

Yup

There’s also a few like the Archevile and Revenant that break a core rule in a game-changing way that makes them scary

[thorny olive]

Everytime I saw an archvile I just nuked it before it starts becoming less of an inconvenience and more of an actual problem

I haven't finished Doom 2 yet though so I can't say

[tepid jolt]

Lol. Everything changes when you don’t have the firepower to do that, like in the Plutonia Experiment

[thorny olive]

Doom 1 was awesome though

[tepid jolt]

There’s a Plutonia map that has a dozen archeviles and no other demons. It’s somehow very harrowing, in part because you don’t have the BFG yet and it’s too close quarters for rockets. I don’t think you have the plasma gun either, but I don’t remember for sure on that one

[thorny olive]

That sounds 💀

[tepid jolt]

Also the Rabbit song is playing the whole time. It’s basically a horror level in a hedge maze

[thorny olive]

Are you supposed to just berserk punch them all for 5 minutes or

[tepid jolt]

No you basically need to SSG them while being very careful to not face 2 Archeviles at once

It feels very cat and mouse

[thorny olive]

Pacman

[tepid jolt]

Yeah kinda. It’s a very stressful level. Plutonia is significantly harder than Doom 2 but it has amazing level design

[thorny olive]

😭

I remember going through Doom 1 and enjoying the relaxing ride

And then I started episode 4 and everything was like

Woah where did this sudden spike in difficulty come from

[tepid jolt]

Episode 4 was made a year after Doom 2 as a sort of free expansion

[thorny olive]

Oh so that's why the maps were bigger and there were like a bajillion projectiles everywhere

[tepid jolt]

Yup

[thorny olive]

It was pretty fun though

[tepid jolt]

Also John Romero being a sadistic troll

[thorny olive]

I gotta get back to doom 2 at some point and finish it

I got distracted playing dark souls and a bunch of other games

And then I awoke my unknown enjoyment of the strand type game

[tepid jolt]

Doom 2 levels are a mixed bag. It has some really good ones but it also has Barrels of Fun and the city levels that don’t look anything like a city

[thorny olive]

I guess now that you mention it city levels were pretty funny looking

I remember a library full of mancubus and it was structured funny and then there was the meatball room

At least I think that was a library

[tepid jolt]

The big innovation of Plutonia Experiment specifically was the shift to fights structured specifically around punishing playing scared

[thorny olive]

Ye I did that alot

I played like csgo and just peaked the corner to shoot and then run back behind

😭 I hate it when they turn the lights off

[tepid jolt]

I can think of 2 levels the library thing could be referring to. The Suburb level has a bit structured to resemble the level’s designer’s (Sandy Peterson’s) house. The other is Monster Condo, which is a small arena box near the end based on a place in Sandy Peterson’s recurring nightmare.

[thorny olive]

Honestly I don't know if it was actually a library

[tepid jolt]

In both of the first 2 Doom games, Peterson made the most surreal levels

[thorny olive]

I just called it that randomly but I don't remember if there was anything actually indicative of that

It was a level with like 2 buildings or something and there's like arachnotrons waddling around outside and there's mancubus inside one of the buildings

[tepid jolt]

That sounds like Suburb but it’s been a while

[thorny olive]

Doom 2 had some cool levels

[tepid jolt]

A couple of the addon campaigns did some really cool levels using custom textures to make them look like freighters and stuff

[thorny olive]

Ive taken a look at some of the add ons in the menu but haven't played any yet

Oh yeah I've been curious

How is the dos version of doom different from the modern ports

When I launch doom on steam I get a dos version option

[tepid jolt]

Some movement differences, some bug fixes, and the Doom 2 secret levels have their textures changed. Basically they’re homages to Wolfenstein 3D so the walls have shwastikas and Hitler portraits as you run around killing nazis. Modern ports tend to censor the wall textures

[thorny olive]

Oh yeah I remember seeing they censored some things in the classic doom port included with doom 3

Like they changed the crosses on medkits to pills or something

Well I guess that's not really censorship

But just legal changes or something

[tepid jolt]

The Red Cross symbol is technically copyrighted so they have to change it to something else in modern ports

I think the Steam port changed the color but kept it a cross

[thorny olive]

I see

[tepid jolt]

Happens with a lot of old games

[thorny olive]

I'm very thankful for doom 😌

[tepid jolt]

Same

[thorny olive]

Doom got me out of a bad mentality and also got me to play games I would have never thought to play

[tepid jolt]

Same

[thorny olive]

When I was younger I used to think "If it isn't open world is it even a video game?"

that was such a crappy look at games but then my dad bought me doom 2016 and I reluctantly played it

And it was like

[lone thistle]

should i get 2016 doom?

i only have eternal

[tepid jolt]

Yes

[thorny olive]

My eyes have been opened slayer 👽

Doom 2016 is a very good game

But it'll probably feel weird for you going backwards

Since there won't be any dashes or anything like that

[proper kayak]

2016 is a billion times better than eternal, hands down I would definitely get it

[tepid jolt]

Don’t play Nightmare first time. 2016 Nightmare is brutal and the two games are different enough that you’ll need to relearn some stuff

[snow heron]

Yes it is a masterpiece

[latent jewel]

[sigh]

[proper kayak]

It’s ridiculously hard even in I’m too young to die it just isn’t enjoyable at all

[cold root]

I rarely see people that prefer 2016 over Eternal

[tepid jolt]

2016 has better level design and a simpler system. Eternal is still good but very different and has a lot more moving parts

[thorny olive]

I'm replaying the game on nightmare right now

[proper kayak]

Honestly I rarely see people pick eternal over 2016 😂

[thorny olive]

Honestly once you played eternal doom 2016 just feels kinda easier xd

[cold root]

well, what are the primary differences between the level designs of 2016 and Eternal, besides the latter having much more platforming?

[tepid jolt]

Eternal’s levels are typically a lot more linear. That’s the big thing

[thorny olive]

I dunno Doom 2016 felt very much like power fantasy awesome and visceral where as Doom Eternal was more like adrenaline pumping comic book action cool

[proper kayak]

I see what you mean I agree

[latent jewel]

to please both parts, both are bad on their own terms. voila debate fixed :)))

[elder meadow]

I have arrived

[proper kayak]

😂😂

[elder meadow]

My moment has finally called me

[tepid jolt]

Eternal has better weapon balance and some really cool enemy designs but its levels are a bit too linear and it’s maybe a little too complicated for its own good

[cold root]

I saw a guy who said 2016 is faster than Eternal, which is complete nonsense

[elder meadow]

Ur all wrong boohoo Doom 2016 sucks.

Halo 3 is the best video game ever made my Gamertag is literally Cortana got ass Cope seethe stay mad Doom is for old people

[thorny olive]

If you asked me which one I would prefer that would be very hard

[latent jewel]

The Rise & Fall of Arena Shooters by The Act Man talks a bit about them all

[thorny olive]

But I'm going to choose eternal for one very small thing and that is giblets xd

[tepid jolt]

2016 movement feels better imo. Which game is “faster” depends on exactly how you’re measuring speed. In terms of pacing Eternal is faster, but in terms of literal moving speed 2016 is faster

[thorny olive]

I'm replaying Doom 2016 and it feels so weird not seeing chunks of flesh flying everywhere

[latent jewel]

try with a mod

well... "mod"

[thorny olive]

Still though that aside Doom 2016 is still awesome

[fickle radish]

Doom 2016 just like Doom 1 has better atmosphere compared to their sequels

[thorny olive]

I really love the moody and dark tone it has

[cold root]

I prefer 2016’s glory kills over Eternal’s. they are more brutal with the Slayer often punching and blowing up enemies with his arms

[elder meadow]

I prefer fallout New vegas

[cold root]

a lot of the glory kills in Eternal are either stabbing or slicing enemies with the doom blade

[latent jewel]

unfortunately does not have same big variety

[elder meadow]

rlly depends what kind of atmosphere u are tryna look for

[thorny olive]

It'd be cool if there were like dlc glory kills or something

[tepid jolt]

2016 also has a robust level editor. That’s a pretty big plus

[elder meadow]

Because eternal is me after taking all flavors of Sour patches

[elder meadow]

💀sadly prob never gonna get another snapmap

Certain Affinity i miss u

Make halo great again…

[latent jewel]

other games still deliver robust editors though. as of yet.

[elder meadow]

its more so i dont think Id will put time into such a feature when Multiplayer wasnt a focus either

Not to mention i cant believe how much time they’d need to create such a doom game with all these features.

[thorny olive]

I dunno Doom 2016 movement felt good but sometimes I would get stuck on random geometry or just spontaneously accelerate to 472m/s whereas I didn't really have that problem in eternal

[latent jewel]

all they have to do is to release to the public the tools they are using to create levels

is not that hard tbh

Doom3 had internal map editor

[thorny olive]

I have footage of that happening today but I cant send here because I dont have media perms

[latent jewel]

give title after you upload to youtube

[tepid jolt]

I really don’t like dashing as a mechanic. It feels really awkward imo. I much prefer having a fast base speed like 2016 or old Doom

[latent jewel]

yt link are permitted I guess

[thorny olive]

I posted it in #videos though

[latent jewel]

you used controller?

[thorny olive]

No I am on PC

[elder meadow]

Ye but something like Snapmap is just seen as “accessible” to the common majority because its on the Menu page so even if there is an internal map editor, I’d prefer something more Advertised like Fortnite creative or Halo Forge or even Far cry’s map editor if anyone remembers

[thorny olive]

I think it might have something to do with framerate

[latent jewel]

weird I did not notice any difference maybe unlocking fps does that

[thorny olive]

Kinda like when you try to play classic grand theft auto games at high framerates and get randomly sent flying when you walk over a slight decline like stairs

Honestly though I couldnt say what causes that

[tepid jolt]

BFG damage in 2016 is tied to framerate, so maybe.

In case anyone is wondering, yes that’s why weapon wheel time slow buffs BFG damage

[latent jewel]

in D3 you would type in console editor and voila. what is so complicated for casuals? ppl interested enough would not care much and those lazy to find out will not get hard working into map building if they would not want to spend a few minutes to know how to open the editor from the console

[elder meadow]

u’d be surprised how often people dont know what a console is

[tepid jolt]

….. I didn’t even know Doom 3 had an internal level editor until you said that

[elder meadow]

there u go

[latent jewel]

and a very powerful one

[cold root]

I always couldn’t tell why game developers tie things like physics and game speed to the framerate

[tepid jolt]

Incidentally I also appreciate that Snapmap is compatible with console since some of us can’t afford a PC powerful enough to play modern Doom on it

[elder meadow]

that too

Like i said most people arnt very bright and something like Fortnite Creative or Halo’s forge is just more approachable

Cause its literally shoved down your throat

[thorny olive]

garys mod

[elder meadow]

It doesnt even have to be so advance its the fact its on a Menu just makes it appealed to people

[tepid jolt]

With the Doom 3 editor, I didn’t know it existed because console commands are something I’d never think to check for game features

[latent jewel]

I own a gtx950 I mean a decent low spec more pc and D16 runs acceptable let's say 300 euros and you can have smth acceptable

[lean urchin]

anyone running this on freebsd?\

[elder meadow]

cause they arnt Directly told to u. Unless u actually searched it up urself or some small description somewhere

[tepid jolt]

Exactly

[elder meadow]

Like my first time playing Team Fortress i accidently slammed the Console button and found out

[thorny olive]

I used to use a 1060 6GB from evga and it ran Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal pretty well

[tepid jolt]

And most players are going to assume that all the game modes are listed in the menu

[elder meadow]

also people wont know how to operate said Console menu

[thorny olive]

Doom 2016 pretty much maxed everything high framerate where as Doom Eternal I had to keep it lower to stay within 60+ but it ran well

[latent jewel]

yes you dont last generation spec pc to run it acceptable I say abt d16 dunno DEternal

[cold root]

I’m honestly surprised there’s no any model viewers for Doom 3, or id tech 4 games in general

[thorny olive]

I built a new rig last year though

5600X and a 3060 from zotac

[latent jewel]

you can create models in Maya and import in D3

[thorny olive]

I undervolted both of them :)

Uhhh I don't have any experience with 3d modelling and I dont feel compelled to pay money for maya

[tepid jolt]

I’d try using console commands for Doom 3’s map editor but my PC is currently broken and I’m playing console only until I can get together the money to have it fixed

[thorny olive]

Whats the difference between maya and blender anyway and why do professionals like maya so much

Anyways I gotta eat

[latent jewel]

probably was more popular and easier to find tutorials

D3 even uses models loaded as partial maps -some of those Mars surface parts. I copied one and added to my Doom2 dm1 remake for the exterior yard

[thorny olive]

I dunno I think I heard somewhere Maya is a little more animation oriented or something like that but I could be wrong

I don't really know much about 3D asset creation

[latent jewel]

no you might right bc I recall now that blender was more popular to free ppl while maya was more corporate oriented I guess

[tepid jolt]

Do you think Quake 4 enemies could be imported into Doom 3?

[latent jewel]

probably

[thorny olive]

Only people I know use blender is like every 3dnsfw creator on Twitter xd

[latent jewel]

D3 engine is very modular

[tepid jolt]

I have a campaign mod idea I want to start working on for Doom 3 when I have my PC working again, and figure a few new enemy types would be a fun addition. Especially given that I want to make the zombie machinegun guys friendly to help in the early levels

[latent jewel]

I would not turn back to that. From time to time just to modify minor things to a mod that I wrote 18 years ago. It was the lack of shaders, unsatisfying models quality, and other things I did not like at the time. To me it was like a developer engine made for developers and then they threw a game on top of it made in a hurry and that was it. At the time the only succesful commerciable engine was that of Unreal and id Software were thinking that they could make id tech compete with that.

[tepid jolt]

Also want to try and rework the cacodemon to resemble its classic incarnation and have it spit three round bursts of hell knight fireballs or something similar

At the very least make it red and do the hell knight fireballs

[latent jewel]

those modifications does not seem too hard. if I am not mistaken id even released the source code for D3..

but you probably need to learn how to retexture and to know to work with models

[tepid jolt]

I’ve made less ambitious mods to Doom 3 before. Changing weapon properties is surprisingly trivial. I may just recolor the cacodemon for a first attempt

The fireballs thing is pretty straightforward too

I may just up the caco fireball durability and speed to keep things simple

[latent jewel]

it is something I did not bother with -abt models or retexturing models. I mostly worked with the editor to the degree that I was so versatile with mapping that I could be able to work at id LOL like I spend 6 months just to build a map time which it took me so long bc I could never be satisfied enough with the look. shaders I also made some metallic ones for the engine lacked them almost completely. and then writing in quak C stuff, and importing exporting assets. it is a nice engine if you want to learn

[tepid jolt]

Yeah when I have my pc working again I intend to take some time to figure out the engine, probably using Doom 3 to test stuff

[latent jewel]

but tbh I started with some prereleased version that a friend gave it to me since I did not have Internet at the time, so at the launch I was already accustomed with many aspects of the game. imagine my despair when I seen other guys trying to remake the same map I was working on for months only to finish the map in days -"finish" while my map was designed to look and act in a professional manner, their "remakes" were a few brushes put together not even scaled or textured properly and to the acclaim of the community they were well received I was wtf is that?? :)))

[tepid jolt]

That certainly sounds frustrating. I want to do a campaign where you return to Mars City a few years after the original game because Earth lost contact with it and you’re the same marine and have been designated as the guy who saved the day last time this happened. You are playing through similar levels to the original but with more breathing room and 2-3 times the demon population, then spend about a third of the game in an abstract and chaotic Hell before returning to the hellified Mars City for the last act

[still lily]

ew doom 3

doom 3 shotgun is the best melee weapon in any game ever

[elder meadow]

lmao

[kind pond]

G

[elder meadow]

this is revolutionary

[halcyon bear]

Looks like a blast

[cold root]

it’s really funny that a line from an obscure and weird comic literally became the tagline of the franchise

[halcyon bear]

Guts

[static summit]

Anyone wanna play online on doom 2016

[fickle radish]

PC?

[halcyon bear]

I'm down on pc

[latent jewel]

building an entire campaign on your own would mean spending half a year of 20/24 nonstop working if you want to reach an acceptable lvl of quality imo. too ambitious for a single person project

[latent jewel]

now that I am starting to think lol. who is the UAC alarms protecting from getting out of the room, since demons have the capacity of teleportation? now this should be a good starting plot for the game

[tepid jolt]

I’m not by any means a perfectionist, especially in terms of visuals. Also for Mars City I figure I could take a lot of the existing environments and modify them then populate them with different encounters

[halcyon bear]

That would be neat

[cold root]

playing Eternal made me realize that 2016 doesn't has that much environmental variety. it's usually hell, uac bases and the surface of mars

[halcyon bear]

Ya considering it's mars and hell those 2 similar asthetics do blend in. I will say I absolutely love titans realm intro though

[cold root]

VEGA Central Processing is at least a nice change of scenery

[still lily]

i mean. the entire story takes place on mars and hell what did you expect from a reboot trying to keep it safe.

[cold root]

I'm referring to the environments generally looking samey and not distinct from one another

[thorny olive]

Don't forget UAC except destroyed

:)

[elder meadow]

eternal environments were cooking

2016 tho isnt awful if u just take a look to games now

just the fact Eternal rlly shoves that standard so high. I didnt even expectations for Eternal before release

[cold root]

I wouldn't be surprised if most people before the release of Eternal thought it would be the Doom II of 2016

[elder meadow]

Like ye they are open world games but Far cry 5 is hella samey. and some other farcry games

[cold root]

2016 is still a great game, but compared to Eternal it feels slow and basic in comparison

[elder meadow]

Considering it is a game released in 2016.

I mean ye. i think thats what a sequal

Unlike some series…

[halcyon bear]

Generally I suggest not comparing both games or working on muscle memory issues. You should appreciate both games for what they have to offer

[thorny olive]

2016 isn't as varied but I still adore the game and it's atmosphere

[elder meadow]

I definitely prefer eternal but 2016 is an easy second best

[fickle radish]

2016 is very important to me for bringing my love back to shooters

[halcyon bear]

Absolutely did the same for me after years of copy paste online shooter

[elder meadow]

I will say I like the gauss cannon better than the ballista

It's more deadly and powerful feeling

[thorny olive]

2016 made me realize games don't have to be open world

And doom 1993 made me realize just cause it's old doesn't mean it's bad

And that's how I got to experience a bunch of different games new and old

Including 2000s deus ex absolute classic

[still lily]

personally i perfer 2016. the aesthetic vibe, and tbh even the gameplay is just more fun and cooler to me.

also it has so much content

whole pvp mode to play with friends which is funny and near infinite snapmap content which is essentially still being advanced to this day through console friendly "modding". What 2016 lacks in "depth" eternal lacks in features and content.

is there still only 3 master levels?

[tepid jolt]

It’s more like 5 as of now

[still lily]

lol

ID really doing in 12 months what modders can do in a weekend

[elder meadow]

Didn't the game finish after TAG2

[tepid jolt]

Storywise yes. Not in terms of content

The last content update was over a year later IIRC

[elder meadow]

Ah

[tepid jolt]

Just had a weird thought. So the Slayer has been in Hell fighting demons for eons right? In that case, you don’t necessarily need a multiverse to explain the difference Earths. In theory, it could be that our universe collapsed and big banged again during the time he was in Hell and Hell wasn’t affected because it’s a different dimension.

[modern current]

Is doom 2016 worth it on switch?

[proper ermine]

Well if its your only way of playing it or you really need a portable version of it, yeah.

[modern current]

Alr

[snow heron]

It’s honestly a pretty good port. It looks pretty good plays surprisingly good and runs pretty well. It doesn’t have SnapMap though but the multiplayer surprisingly isn’t completely dead

[tepid jolt]

I have seen infighting happen a few times mid-encounter. I remember being told that it’s scripted only but it really doesn’t seem scripted here

[elder meadow]

yep the area where you spawn in in Argent Facility Destroyed you can see the argent tower and its beautiful

[modern current]

Whats snapmap

[tepid jolt]

It’s a level editor

A very powerful level editor

[tepid jolt]

After looking at some stuff about Doom 2016’s ai, it actually does use an infighting mechanic in the ai, though it’s different from that of classic Doom

[stoic atlas]

How do I get past the hell guards pase 2?

[latent jewel]

All this modernization of terms look so bad to me. Not appealing at all. I tend to consider a story talking about "multiverse" more kitsch esque than one who uses the good old expression "another world". Trying to be scientifically accurate in relation to hypothetical science is just bad. It always make the critic in me question if the real reason is not to hide a bad conceived story.

[latent jewel]

I did not play the campaign this is why I suggest you watch some walkthrough -for faster results watch a speedrun -ZeroMaster on yt or smth. At least I could help you with an advice 🙂

[primal stone]

wow

[tepid jolt]

“Another world” is basically just a really messy and imprecise way to say multiverse from a worldbuilding standpoint. Doom has always had science fiction as a major part of its setting so considering the story with science in mind is perfectly reasonable

[latent jewel]

I understand what you say. But when you use scientific words you try to sound too precise. Which usually defies the very idea of thematic stories based on fictional worlds and unknown. This is also seen too much imo in movies not just related to games.

the mania of accurate explaining is what I despise but whatever not a bid deal. none can make me change my mind on a subject which make me feel resentment. better not to think about it

[tepid jolt]

It’s worth pointing out that many physicists in real life think that our universe may be part of a multiverse. I think it’s overdone as a trope but using an accurate term is usually better than to use a needlessly wishywashy term

“Another world” is too vague to really mean anything at all

[latent jewel]

yes I understand what you say. another aspect is though that if it is not 100& stupid wish wash interpretation give room for phylosophical interpretations

[latent jewel]

and to me this is the beauty of it. We had a national poet who would start his poem by saying I dont destroy the wonders of the world with my knowledge....

a very good one

anyway back to my games :p

[tepid jolt]

The purpose of language is to communicate meaning. Language that doesn’t communicate anything is useless. You may as well string random words together if you don’t care about meaning

[latent jewel]

Oh one more observation would be that I like to follow what theoretical physics brings to the table, with my limited capacity to understanding, ie I watch on a regular basis Sabine from yt who would talk in accessible terms about this subject to me it is just that it does not have a place in mass media entertainment interpretations. unless it is very strictly based on purpose on that subject alone. Kind of a simplistic sacrilegial approach. This spectrum is anyway too large for a vast discussion on this channel.

[modern current]

Shoot them until they die

[latent jewel]

and then shoot them more 😄

[elder meadow]

and then rip and tear

[wraith tangle]

are you a phylosophist yourself?

[tepid jolt]

Ambiguous wording doesn’t make something profound; only confusing

[latent jewel]

We must avoid approaches which would make us look like we present the you know Dunning Kruger effect. This should be a reminder for both of us.

[latent jewel]

It depends. sometimes this is what would transcend time. Ie does bergman movies make ppl feel confused? probably yes. to some degree. and this is not a bad thing

[wraith tangle]

I would never present the you know Dunning Kruger Effect

[halcyon bear]

[snow heron]

Level editor for 2016. It comes built in with every other version of the game

[still lily]

no snapmap really sucks tbh.

[modern current]

A fully upgraded pistol can do enough damage to a hell razer to get him into a glory kill state in just one hit, good to know

[elder meadow]

i forget the existence of pistol after getting shotgun

[tepid jolt]

Hell Razers or Zombie Soldier?

[modern current]

Hell razer

And zombie soldiers

[tepid jolt]

Wow that’s neat

[modern current]

I did on my first playthrough, but i thought it would be funny to upgrade the pistol as fast as i can this time, and on a higher difficulty too, turns out its actually sort of useful, and not having to worry about ammo is nice

[modern current]

Although ammo does not seem to be much of a concern in this game

[tepid jolt]

I don’t play with weapon upgrades so I don’t remember much of what the different weapons are capable of

[elder meadow]

I know for a fact that the rocket launcher puts the hell razor in gk state but damn the pistol

[modern current]

Does this game continue on from doom 64? Like, is it the same doom guy? As at the end of 64 he stays in hell, and in 2016 hes found in hell with a reputation for killing demons

Unless something happened in doom 3, but i didnt finish it

[modern current]

Yeah its a nice suprise, i might actually start using the pistol more lol

[tepid jolt]

Ammo management matters if you don’t take certain upgrades but yeah fully upgraded gear trivializes it

[elder meadow]

he was trapped in the sarcophagus in kadingir sanctum so ig its a direct continuation from doom 64 if you ignore doom 3

[tepid jolt]

It’s the same guy from 1 2 and 64. Doom 3 is its own thing

[elder meadow]

ye

[modern current]

Oh

[elder meadow]

that was id's attempt on making fps horror

[modern current]

Yeah i tried playing 3 yesterday, gave it about 2 hours and just hated every second

[elder meadow]

oof

it is a unique game i must say

[modern current]

I can see why somebody would like it, it just wasnt for me

[elder meadow]

not the best, but good

[elder meadow]

its gameplay is different
it had reloads while the other doom games dont
and movement is really slow

combine that with using the flashlight at every corner

[halcyon bear]

After doom 64 he travels hell causes issues until he falls into the sight of the sentinels fights for them plus the God machine makes him into a beast. He's tricked by the hell priests into a massive battle into a temple and they blow up the giant temple to stop him and then build the sarcophagus around him where he was trapped

[elder meadow]

and you have an fps horror

[elder meadow]

all the doom games endings are sad lmao

[halcyon bear]

True

[tepid jolt]

Doom is the story of how this one really badass man can never catch a break and is forever dealing with adversity with no end in sight

Which kind of sounds like a ghost story now that I’ve said it

[halcyon bear]

Kinda sounds like John wick

New movies amazing by the way

[modern current]

Dont spoil i havent seen it yet

[tepid jolt]

I still haven’t seen any John Wick, but I’ve been meaning to

[halcyon bear]

Never

[modern current]

Was this in doom eternal?

[cold root]

I always felt like id designed the BFG Edition to be faster-paced

[halcyon bear]

The story ya plus in the lore

[modern current]

Its like doom, a guy shoots bad guys and its really badass

[halcyon bear]

They kill his dog instead of his bunny haha

[elder meadow]

what is BFG edition anyway? aside from weapon mounted flaslights

[tepid jolt]

I’m familiar with the premise. I just have never gotten around to actually seeing the movie

BFG Edition upped the brightness, cut a bunch of monsters, made you faster, included RoE and a new expansion named Lost Mission

[elder meadow]

ohh

[tepid jolt]

I like all those changes except cutting the monsters

[halcyon bear]

If I was still in high school I could write a solid paper on the similarities of John wick and doom guy. Also one if the reasons why a dude flesh and blood conquering just feels so much better than a demi God format like eternal. John wick wouldn't be the same if he was a super God solider

[elder meadow]

ye funny how people think doomguy can thanos snap universes

[halcyon bear]

Such a huge misconception

[modern current]

Nvm its only if u hit them in the face i think, otherwise its 2 shots

[snow heron]

They act like Doomguy is the only character in fiction to be super pissed and can kill demons good when there are characters that would easily body Doomguy that do the same thing and have even greater feats

[elder meadow]

true

[modern current]

Classic weapon poses or new weapon poses?

[cold root]

definitely new

Classic looks weird and takes way too much screen space

[modern current]

Fair

[tepid jolt]

I like both personally. Just use whichever looks better to you

[elder meadow]

and the new pose feels natural because holding the gun like right in front of you like that with the classic pose feels weird

[halcyon bear]

Classic let's you see both right and left fully which is why people use it. The opposite of screen space. Are you having issues seeing infront of you?

[cold root]

no?

but eh, it just looks off to me

[halcyon bear]

There we go you personally don't like it. Makes sense

[cold root]

I'm used to playing fps games with the weapons being on the left

Classic Doom and Quake are expections because they are designed to have centered viewmodels

[halcyon bear]

Do you mean right ?

[cold root]

ah whoops

[halcyon bear]

This veiwmod makes more sense for aim down sight. Helps with visual transition with aim really good with pvp

Doesn't matter much with doom

[still lily]

classic just feels off. i just make the viewmodels higher fovs to block less of the screen and its still like how youd actually hold a shotgun instead of it being implanted into your torso

[halcyon bear]

Holding a shotgun still goes into your torso when you aim. Fun fact. And looks off is another personal thing

https://imgur.com/viqiwKi

That's a eye cam veiw

( can't and won't show real fire arms here but they all look like that)

[still lily]

ive shot a shotgun before and uhhh yeah no i didnt hold it stock into my chest lmao

[halcyon bear]

That's eye veiw shoulder hold

What shotgun?

[still lily]

870

[halcyon bear]

And it looked like you were holding it onto your right shoulder while aiming ?

[still lily]

the classic pose implies its in your chest though. and def not aiming

its jsut fugly lmao

and when you pump the combat shotgun it blocks more of your view

than otherwise

[halcyon bear]

God if there is any proof there is no God it's the utter stupidity of discord

[still lily]

every single pump it goes and blocks more of the left side than the regualr pose anyway

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/593535108015718450/1093327943448658030/Screenshot_20230405_171425.jpg

unlike just default pose where it barely moves each pump. and you can adjust the viewmodel to be smaller. sure its all personal choice but. the whole it blocks less screen thing is.. eh.

[halcyon bear]

Are you comparing a one frame reload of one weapon ... to faster enemy acquisition. More available arena visibility swap visibility plus being a classic Chad?

Not sure who you're trying to sell to kid

[still lily]

every single pump tho?

sure its only like. 10 frames or some shit

but thats like. 10 lost frames. like 30 times

over the course of a fight

my viewmodel is lowered and smaller so finding targets isnt a problem even if my guns over them.

[halcyon bear]

@still lily end of the day I think this is a age old argument.. might come down to playstyle?

[elder meadow]

[thorny olive]

I don't use the combat shotgun much after getting better weapons

Siege mode remote detonate all the way 🤑

[elder meadow]

I was thinking that in a way all 3 original boss fights of 1993 are remade in 2016

The two Hell Guards are like an update on the two Barons from Knee Deep

[elder meadow]

Yeah true

Hell guards are the marauders but actually fun

atleast the first one is

[stoic atlas]

Thanks

[elder meadow]

Gauss cannon is your friend

Hell guards are a fun fight

[thorny olive]

I felt like boss fights ended too fast in 2016

Didn't get to enjoy it long enough

[elder meadow]

It was fast but still a fun fight and a good challenge on the higher difficulties

Tbh 2016 bosses > eternal bosses anyday

[tepid jolt]

I like them being short. It means I don’t have to be stuck as long when I inevitably struggle

[elder meadow]

Kahn maykr was such an easy fight even on UV, such a let down

[elder meadow]

Completed Doom 2016 on Xbox One, then went back and earned all runes, and got the Circle is Complete achievement…but when I upgraded the runes, the IDDQD achievement didn’t unlock. Any idea why? Is that a bug, or…?

[latent jewel]

there are yt war footages with bodycam I don't understand how ppl would still argue about this :))))

[elder meadow]

Classic pose is more of a novelty in 2016 anyways

[halcyon bear]

If you guys are aiming down the sight of a gun and it's still in your right shoulder. Go see a doctor you're having a stroke

[still lily]

real chads absorb all the recoil with their ribcage

[halcyon bear]

Imagine not knowing how eyesight works and defending that point for 2 days

[still lily]

ur so mad lmao

[halcyon bear]

Nah scrub

[still lily]

classic chuds

[elder meadow]

[halcyon bear]

[winter stream]

Classic pose is not ADS

[halcyon bear]

Nope it definitely isn't so I want to make my point clear here real quick before I get pings or whatever from people I rather not talk to. When you aim down sight of a weapon it's very similar in veiw to having a gun in your chest or classic view. So I don't really think the whole the gun is in your chest so it's bad thing holds any water. As a gun owner it's actually nice to have that veiw because it's similarities with aiming down sight target acquisition and movement. Just feels natural. If you don't like that style of play that's fine. I have tons of respect for everyone here including telesnow and anyone else that loves doom 2016. End of the day were discussing a game we love. Sorry for pulling a baron with the giant message but hopefully this is more coherent

[modern current]

I was saving my weapon upgrade points for the super shotgun, and i spent them all on the gauss cannon thinking i wont run into the super shotgun for a while

Literally 5 seconds later i found it

You should he able to respec points

[elder meadow]

U dont place a rifle’s buttstock against your shoulder

The blast must be absorbed to your chest

[halcyon bear]

Funny story I actually did this when I was a kid. Couldn't move my arm for a week and a half

[still lily]

surgically implant the stock into your spine

[elder meadow]

Not being satire atm cause someone could read this and actually harm themselves firing a gun for not being well educated

[halcyon bear]

Oh ya it's all love here bros

[still lily]

how do you hurt urself firing a gun. gotta be dumb.

[elder meadow]

Lever shotguns

[halcyon bear]

Solid dipshit vibes

[elder meadow]

all im gonna say.

[still lily]

glad levers are outclassed now ig

[halcyon bear]

I've seen modern version for sale. They look cool..but why

Like have rails and everything

[still lily]

gross lmao

if imma get a lever its gonna be classic western bullshit cuz thats all the novelty it has

[elder meadow]

45-70 im guessin

[still lily]

1984

[halcyon bear]

Hahahaha

Big brother is watching boys

[elder meadow]

Friend in texas (as always) enjoys his levers.

[halcyon bear]

I'm In alberta so our options are limited here

[still lily]

texans love their impractical shit.

[elder meadow]

To be fair a 50 cal in your backyard is kinda cool

Seeing one is like seeing god

[halcyon bear]

Something I'll never see unless I go 40 minutes south

[still lily]

i only use 50 cal for home defense. so i can over pierce into my neighbors house

[elder meadow]

More like pierce your neighbors soul

[halcyon bear]

I like how there is this whole you need a shotgun for home defence cult haha

[elder meadow]

Dont gotta aim for shit the spread hits em all partner /j

[still lily]

i hate living in canada now.. no guns kms

i miss living in Tennessee and just going shooting every weekend

[elder meadow]

Sounds like a real skill issue, should Migrate

If a demonic invasion occurs, Canada is undoubtedly fucked

Like fallout the US is taking ur cheeks

Freedom 🇺🇸

[still lily]

Canadians cant even use melee weapons for self defense. Self defense doesnt even exist according to law. this place literally just wants you to accept death lmao

[elder meadow]

Schools are still unsafe but magazines has never felt so full 🇺🇸

[still lily]

but im just here cuz my boyfriend lives here so whatever

[halcyon bear]

Only time you can use deadly force is a no escape scenario

[still lily]

dumb. u step into my house without consent you die. simple as.

[elder meadow]

Why didn’t he move out to America?

Sorry boys im defending my house with the BR55

[halcyon bear]

Well ya I mean not even for me sure I can get away but what about my gf or if I have a child and so on

[still lily]

he has a job here

[elder meadow]

3 bursts to the body, 4th on the head

sorry just reflexes

[halcyon bear]

You couldn't pay me to move to the states though hahahahah like for real

[elder meadow]

Better be a damn good job if he’s willing to live in Canada for it

[halcyon bear]

Yall everything is fucked

[still lily]

true tho. like. overall canada is better

[elder meadow]

The states are kinda screwy rn, politics and such

[elder meadow]

1 million robux

[halcyon bear]

For just quality of life and stuff ya

[still lily]

just add guns and freedom of speech and canada solos

[elder meadow]

Canadian government

[halcyon bear]

That's just alberta

[still lily]

I renounce my american roots

ohhhh canadaaaaa
time to move to alberta

[halcyon bear]

Alberta is just winter Texas

[elder meadow]

California hates guns. u know why. 💀

[halcyon bear]

Oil gas guns and cattle. Thats all we have

[elder meadow]

thats all california hates

[still lily]

im in BC rn

middle of nowhere on an island

[halcyon bear]

Bc does have great weather though

Love it in the spring.

[still lily]

plz help

[halcyon bear]

You're in Victoria?

[still lily]

idk but you need a ferry to get here.

[elder meadow]

[still lily]

from Vancouver

[halcyon bear]

Ya that's victoria

It's a nice place to visit. Went to the gardens a few times

[still lily]

not to live tho. the beaches are beautiful but im bored i wanna stop living in the middle of the woods

no friends 😦 only old people around here

[halcyon bear]

I mean it's only a one hour ferry to Vancouver. Why don't you just do a you day and hit up the city

[still lily]

one hour every day + im broke

no thanks

[halcyon bear]

Ahhh my bad. Gotcha. Can't imagine how bad it is in victoria with all the tourists.

[still lily]

i liked living in surrey of all places more lmao

[halcyon bear]

Surry is fun. I'm Punjabi so I have alot of family there haha

[still lily]

my life was peak there

anyways uhhhh halo doom 2016 MP armor mod coming soooon uhhhh

[halcyon bear]

Something something baron with 76 paragraphs

[winter stream]

Hah yep we were in India land alright

[halcyon bear]

Hahahaha it's so weird going there once in a while because I'm the only brown person in 200km where I live now

[tropic compass]

ur late i just got out of there

[echo anvil]

Hi guys, is it possible to farm the online archivements with a friend?

[still lily]

with 3 other friends yeah

all you need is 4 players for matchamking to start

[modern current]

Siege mode or focus shot for the gauss canon?

[elder meadow]

siege mode any day of the week

[opal shale]

Didn't realize you're a fellow Canuck.

[opal shale]

We have freedom of speech. We don't need guns everywhere. I'm middle-aged, and the number of times in my life where I've need a gun for protection or to resolve an issue is 0.

[modern rivet]

2016 & deternal base speeds are identical

9.525 m/s

[jade marsh]

I'd love to do some multi rn

[halcyon bear]

Oh damn always nice to meet a fellow Canadian hi there

[elder meadow]

he quick

[still lily]

you actually dont 😦
no where does it say you do. You are lucky and good for you. Most gun owners never want to actually use their weapons. But a firearm saved my life, so i miss them.

[halcyon bear]

This is dependent where in Canada he is. This mentality is usually eastern Canada. City folk basically. In western central everyone has a rifle or shotgun for hunting. Hunting is big here

[still lily]

hunting pfft. larping more like.

[halcyon bear]

If you're larping in the fucking rocky mountains you're going to have a bad day bud

[rugged charm]

How do I open the door at the beginning of Kadingir Sanctum with the four skulls on it?

[elder meadow]

you need to play the level a bit first then youll get to climb floating rocks to get to the skull key which unlocks the door

[analog lynx]

Has anyone not had the achievement for beating the hell guards in mission 11, crucible, not unlock? I've done this fight 3 times and it refuses to unlock. I haven't had any other issues in this game so it's kind of frustrating to have gotten this far into the game getting all the collectibles and upgrading everything just for that to now break. I tried deleting and resyncing my cloud save, power cycling my console, redoing the fight, redoing the entire mission but it just won't unlock.

[elder meadow]

strange

[merry pilot]

how do i change the difficulty from ultra violence to nightmare

[wraith tangle]

it has to be a new save

[modern current]

Gatling rotator or mobile turret?

[halcyon bear]

Turret

[elder meadow]

brr

[tepid jolt]

@merry pilot I don’t think you can switch on or off Nightmare on an existing save file. You have to start on Nightmare

[cold root]

I think it's ultra-nightmare that you can't select after starting the campaign on other difficulties

[tepid jolt]

Nightmare doesn’t let you lower the difficulty after the fact so I would expect it works like that both ways

[merry pilot]

ok

[cunning zinc]

Has anyone here had problems running DOOM 2016 with NVIDIA DLDSR in the drivers?

My game is completely frozen the moment I enable a DLDSR resolution in the game settings.

[snow heron]

The cheat code collectibles don't exist on any version of 2016

No there isn't, at least not to my knowledge

[hoary prairie]

Do anyone know what’s happening to the severs?

[winter stream]

what is happening for you?

[hoary prairie]

It keeps saying that an error, every time I play with friends, it keeps saying, that unable to connect to Dedicated servers on doom please try again later

[winter stream]

what platform?

[hoary prairie]

Switch

[winter stream]

I have no such issues on PC, so it may be platform-specific. If there's no networking issues with the switch itself, you could try submitting a support ticket to bethesda

[elder meadow]

Where's the part of 2016 where it becomes fun

[still lily]

you launch snapmap and then type RF8RW3KJ into the search bar

[elder meadow]

How does this help exactly

[still lily]

you asked for fun. i provided. simple.

[proper ermine]

because its a snapmap and snapmaps have fun maps

[elder meadow]

Can I download wad instead

[proper ermine]

wads dont work on 2016..?

[elder meadow]

Yeah they do

[proper ermine]

they do?

[elder meadow]

Yeah you just kinda gotta
Idk

So basically as long as I don't play 2016 I'll have fun?

[proper ermine]

you can have fun playing 2016 if you like it

[elder meadow]

Well I don't like it

I'm just wondering if it gets fun

[proper ermine]

snapmaps help make 2016 more fun with its customisation

there are good snapmaps and bad ones

[elder meadow]

So basically
Don't play main 2016

[proper ermine]

well if you dont like it yeah

[elder meadow]

I mean I think it's the one time I'd rather play tnt

Actually tnt isn't even that bad really I guess

Graphically meh but otherwise mostly fine I think

At least form what I've played

[proper ermine]

well you could try EOA its like 2016 but for classic doom but what exactly dont you like about 2016 again

[elder meadow]

Uhh

Yes

[proper ermine]

yes

[elder meadow]

No 2016 is just like

Idk
I think it needs more arenas

I don't think there's enough

And more walking without anything to do also very fun

[proper ermine]

so like, more calm?

[elder meadow]

No I'd just like modern doom to be engaging

[proper ermine]

but anyways yeah EOA is a mod for gzdoom that you can use to pretty much play 2016 in classic doom (should be compatible with classic doom wads too)

[proper ermine]

for me eternal did that

[elder meadow]

Oh eternal is not engaging for me either
Improvement over 2016 but no

I think I just have issues

[proper ermine]

nah i'd say you just have different taste and opinions

very normal

[elder meadow]

To be fair I could at least beat eternal
2016 was like
Actual torture from what I played

[still lily]

skill issue ig

[proper ermine]

yeah i heard 2016 was "harder" on higher difficulties because mechanics were more simple

[elder meadow]

I played 2016 and was having zero fun at all

[proper ermine]

played the demo and it was aight

[elder meadow]

It wasn't even hard it's just tedious

[still lily]

i loved 2016 as a kid. nowadays i just stick with snapmap. Even now its still pretty good fun. Honestly eternal is like that for me. Tedious and boring.

[elder meadow]

Eternal is tedious and boring kinda

[proper ermine]

eternal is kinda far from tedious and boring imo

[elder meadow]

Not as much as 2016

But still not as fun as classic doom will ever be imo

[proper ermine]

i mean the more enemies, the crazy arenas, there's a lot of things that were intense imo

[still lily]

we all got our opinions. 2016 best doom

[elder meadow]

Oh god the arenas

[proper ermine]

doom best doom

[elder meadow]

This will get me shot but I hate the arenas

I like having constant battles not just

Walk
Arena
Walk
Arena
Walk

[proper ermine]

well they could be tiny or they could they could be big

[winter stream]

I struggle to understand the appeal of classic doom

[still lily]

bro just described every doom game

[proper ermine]

mind me but aint there a lot of parkour to separate the combat? plus ofc cutscenes fr fr

[proper ermine]

wdym by that

[elder meadow]

Parkour isn't bad
Cutscenes I skip

No patience for them

[winter stream]

I don't understand how people like classic doom aside from nostalgia

[proper ermine]

parkour was kinda boring for me but it works as a slight break

[elder meadow]

It's just fun
Idk how it's just fun

Easy to setup and to play
I have it on like every device

[proper ermine]

well me personally i have no nostalgia whatsoever but i find it aight

[still lily]

me too. i dont get it.

doesnt click with me

[proper ermine]

the puzzles be making me rage so much tho cuz im just stupid

[elder meadow]

I mean I enjoy Wolfenstein 3d so

[still lily]

i can see how itd be fucking riveting when it came out

but now it just idk. doesnt hold up

[winter stream]

If we're talking unmodded especially, its 2d movement, 1d aiming, rng damage I don't see how that's engaging

[elder meadow]

I like the classic doom mechanics I guess
It just feels faster and more fun

[elder meadow]

2d movement?

[proper ermine]

the game looked tedious but i understand that for its age

[elder meadow]

It's not the best thing but it's pretty fun I find
Just
60 levels is a little too much

[proper ermine]

well one of the main reasons of why it holds up imo is mods and wads

[proper ermine]

good god that's a lot

[elder meadow]

That's just the main 6 episodes

There's still spear of Destiny stuff too

[proper ermine]

oh each episode is 10 levels

that's kinda...aight maybe

[elder meadow]

No

[still lily]

of course. it goes to show the importance of modding when it comes to longevity. So id software better have mod support for this next doom. Eternal not having any mapping or mod support was a massive fumble. Doom wont be eternal without mod support

[proper ermine]

doom 2016 suffered the same problem but snapmap at least was something

[winter stream]

there's no midair combat other than from falling, you just move forward, backward, left right

[still lily]

snapmap was a good attempt. luckily with modding we made it awesome

[proper ermine]

but ive seen some mods like some davoth master level how did they do that again

[elder meadow]

Sr50

[proper ermine]

and just dodge fr

[elder meadow]

We have alt to strafe
What more is needed

[winter stream]

still moving in 2d

[still lily]

you cant even look up bruh

[elder meadow]

Not needed

[still lily]

lmfao

[elder meadow]

We have autoaim

[winter stream]

very engaging

[elder meadow]

Also like every sourceport has freelook????

It's a little warpy looking but it works

[still lily]

idk. the first game ive ever played was Halo CE. so trying classic doom was jarring

[proper ermine]

despite it being a tech problem, i think it makes it simpler and would be one of the better games for people new at fps imo

[winter stream]

well when I originally brought it up, I was referring to the original game

[still lily]

and it just aint for me

[proper ermine]

gzdoom is a thing

[winter stream]

I'm sure I can mod tf out of it to suit my preferences

[elder meadow]

Well still
I find autoaim fine personally

[elder meadow]

Freelook is a thing since like 199x

[still lily]

doesnt count. thats an entire custom engine

not apart of the doom collection

[proper ermine]

well since you said doom 2016 was the best doom game, you could try EOA and combine 2016 and classic

[proper ermine]

fair fair

[elder meadow]

Modern doom feels slower to me

[proper ermine]

specifically 2016 mechanics with classic doom maps and wads(most)

[proper ermine]

how the fuck

[elder meadow]

Idk
I'm also the same person who hates quake after 1

Lame bot

[proper ermine]

modern doom is literally more engaging than the classics in almost every way

[elder meadow]

Where is sr50

[still lily]

boomer čøomër

[proper ermine]

abbreviations breaking my head

[still lily]

people just seem to forget how fucking risky 2016 was

like bro the arena/boomer shooter genre was long dead

[elder meadow]

We don't need jumping we have straferunning

[still lily]

they had to play it safe while also not

[winter stream]

auto aim to me removes a huge element of engagement. No headshots or other weakpoints to go for

[proper ermine]

2016 seemed like some modern reimagination of the classics

[still lily]

this for sure

[elder meadow]

Who needs weakpoints

[winter stream]

it's to reward precision

[still lily]

adds a skill ceiling and is satisfying and fun

[elder meadow]

We have ssg

Everything is ssg

Perfect weapon

[proper ermine]

except doom 1

[still lily]

anime pfp. evaporate into dust.

[elder meadow]

We have normal one then

[proper ermine]

well games were relatively simple then

[elder meadow]

Not from an anime so no

[proper ermine]

shotgun is everywhere

[elder meadow]

What about rise of the Triad

[proper ermine]

i have no idea

[elder meadow]

There isn't one but there's dog mode so it's ok

[still lily]

doomguy really should've smoked weed in 2016 i dont think i can play this game. not a single joint lit. 0 boofs. unplayable honestly

[winter stream]

I'm not claiming otherwise, but I don't consider that as a defense when we're comparing games right now

[proper ermine]

dog mode? is the mc edible then?

[proper ermine]

yeah that's fair

[elder meadow]

You turn into a dog and kill guards
Holding down the shoot button blows up guards in a range

[proper ermine]

didnt you say 2016 was the best doom game or did i forget

[winter stream]

I'm sure pong was revolutionary for it's time, but nobody's going to convince me that it's worth playing nowadays

[proper ermine]

those guards are ass i wouldve eaten it immediately

[still lily]

fact checked by true american patriots TRUE

[elder meadow]

Rise of the Triad is amazing honestly

I don't know if anyone here would like it tho lol

Uhhh
There's pushwalls?

Pushwalls are cool right

[still lily]

oh yeah it is. but it sucks that he didnt at least hit a dab before killing cyberdemon

or at least took an edible

[proper ermine]

lmao ion think he cares anymore he just wants them dead

[still lily]

anything bro. the entire doom franchise is so mid. absolutely 0 tokes

[proper ermine]

cant tell if that's sarcasm

[proper ermine]

well hey he's got the unicorn skin

[elder meadow]

Oh god I forgot about doom 3 nevermind there's something worse than 2016

[still lily]

no im completely serious. the lack of doomguy doing drugs is just disturbing im literally shaking and crying and shitting

[winter stream]

I can't really say much when it comes to specifics of 2016's campaign, haven't played it in years unless you count the one time I noclipped through the levels to kadingir to playtest a mod

just thousands of hours in snapmap

[proper ermine]

you could just make a random headcanon and say doomguy does drugs offscreen

[still lily]

making a mod rn

[elder meadow]

Maybe I should play more doom 2016

It will be torture but it's doom sooooooooo

[elder meadow]

hot take 75% of doom fans haven’t played another shooter than an Id software shooter

[snow heron]

so many other great non id stuff as well

like Hexen

[winter stream]

with some of the takes I've seen before, it wouldn't surprise me. Particularly when one of the games gets lauded for something that's already been done by other games multiple times.

[modern current]

Anybody got any tips for getting the gold medals in arcade mode?

[elder meadow]

collect all those relics and extra lives and always try to stay on 32x multiplier

[proper ermine]

well thank god i aint in that 75%

i have limited shooters but they aint all from id so im good

[snow heron]

It’s undeniable that Doom has done some revolutionary things in terms of its gameplay but I’ve seen some takes here about 2016 (more so Eternal) that make it sound like they’ve never even heard of other shooters

[modern current]

How much harder is nightmare than uv?

[elder meadow]

I have played a bunch of shooters including competitive ones like Counter Strike and PUBG but if I only had to choose one franchise of shooter games it would be doom

[worthy narwhal]

25%gang where

[modern current]

Thats bc all other shooters are shit

[elder meadow]

Now THAT's a hot take

[proper ermine]

So hot my house burned down

[rich merlin]

What are your preferred runes fam?

[worthy narwhal]

Armour drop,infinite ammo,air control

[modern current]

Even the id ones?

[modern current]

I seriously havent played a good shooter outside of the doom series

I tried cod and halo, and hated both, they felt generic and dull and just shit

Doom is also generic, but in the best possible way, it defines the shooter genre, rather than games like halo or cod which are just inferior copies

[proper ermine]

Damn calling cod generic is def interesting

Which cod you played tho

[rich merlin]

Interesting, I've been using the ammo one (drops BFG), magnet and air control

[worthy narwhal]

I dobt like using bfg all that much

I like more tactical gameplay

[tepid jolt]

I feel like the runes in general undermine tactics personally

[worthy narwhal]

They're supposed to help

[elder meadow]

Savagery
Armored Offensive
Ammo Boost

[rich merlin]

Thanks, I've played D2016 multiple times before but I'm trying to go for the UN run

[elder meadow]

saving throw might help

although if you've played multiple times there shouldn't be any need to use it

[rich merlin]

Trying to see what others use for runes. I just feel that the BFG ammo rune and the rich gets richer are too strong but needed evil for UN

[cold root]

for some reason, the multiplayer achievements don't work for me

[worthy narwhal]

thats doom eternal(?)

[elder meadow]

It really is op but in levels like vega central processing and argent dnur you kinda need that ammo

[elder meadow]

No it's also in d2016

[worthy narwhal]

allright

[rich merlin]

Yep, i agree. In the last couple of levels, BFG is just too good

[elder meadow]

rich get richer is just a waste of rune slot honestly
you have too much ammo with ammo boost anyway

[cold root]

playing the game with your upgrades maxed out and rich get richer equipped makes you unstoppable

[proper ermine]

Duality

[elder meadow]

but during a new campaign you need to upgrade the runes
Ammo boost takes less time to upgrade and also drops bfg ammo

• on nightmare getting hit is not hard

so like it gets useless if you have less armor

[cold root]

I like using savagery as while glory kills are awesome and gory, them being faster is a good thing

[elder meadow]

true

combining that with armored offensive makes them drop armor

[cold root]

outside of rich get richer and armored offensive, are there any runes from 2016 not present in Eternal?

[elder meadow]

been a while since I played eternal tbh i dont remember

[winter stream]

cod is only generic because so many other games have used its core gameplay loop as a template for FPS in general

to call Halo and Cod inferior copies is failing to acknowledge that they are their own sub-genre of first person shooter, and doom does not own the broad concept of firing a gun from the perspective of the guy shooting. If it weren't doom that started it, another would have easily taken its place.

[halcyon bear]

I have to agree. Plus slow paced more methodical gun play is fun

[elder meadow]

CS, Halo, cod, and The class based genre were all designed for a mp experience mostly (newer halo especially)

Call of duty was all about the Arcadish bombastic style genre. The gameplay is generic yet stuff like Loadouts and Killstreaks are something no game can follow just cause its what defines the genre of newer shooters these days like Apex, Titanfall, even battlefield

Halo is a sandbox shooter. And prob one of the game back in the 2000’s that could balance Vehicles with the MP combat.

And CS and Team Fortress im sure we all know what they defined in the industry

[winter stream]

Red knife skin $20000 good deal

[elder meadow]

Team captain unusual 10000 gud deal

[elder meadow]

Doom doesnt have something that defined the mp experience besides Lan party deathmatch.

[modern current]

Thats fair enough, its just that the combat in doom is so well done and satisfying that it makes other games seem sub-par

[halcyon bear]

I think that has alot to do with the fact games now are sub par more than anything else

[prisma scarab]

Anyone down to play doom 2016 multiplayer. I just need to get 1 engineer commendation

[untold stirrup]

You could always not use the BFG

[tepid jolt]

I have enjoyed a lot of 90s shooters but I have played little of Halo and none of CoD
Halo movement just felt way too sluggish
CoD I have not much opinions on in terms of gameplay but refuse to touch them for ethical reasons, specifically because they take money from the US military to show them in a positive light, going so far as to glorify war criminals

[fickle radish]

Halo is a little too slow for my taste

[wraith tangle]

yeah BO1 has you torture a guy for no reason and then be the hero which is strange...

doomguy's origins is refusing to shoot civilians

[tepid jolt]

That kind of thing absolutely happens in the US military and they almost never face consequences so it’s not exactly unrealistic. My problem is they try to justify such atrocities

[halcyon bear]

Collateral damage

[still lily]

can't load up an odst with a spartan lazer and run over imps with a mongoose so. doom is basically dull and boring. halo on top. ong frfr. doom fans will never feel tthe dopamine of a fully loaded scout hog with all fuel rod marines

[opal shale]

Yes, I've heard this as well. I am in Ontario, greater Toronto area. No need for guns here, at least for self defence.

[opal shale]

Both franchises have lots to offer and have different FPS experiences.

[still lily]

you say that until youre unlucky enough to need it.

and tbh doom doesnt have much to offer like damn it doesnt even have mod support anymore and halo does now? Sad.

[opal shale]

As I've said, middle aged and it hasn't been needed yet. While anything is possible, it's not something I'm wagering on.

[opal shale]

DOOM has lots to offer. It's a great franchise.

[snow heron]

Modern Doom is definitely lacking in the modding era but it has a lot to offer in its gameplay.

Didn’t they say Eternal would get mod support at some point and it just never happened?

[still lily]

not really. theres not really.. a sandbox. Everything is pretty linear in how they work.

snapmap was the best thing to come out of modern doom

[snow heron]

Doesn’t need to be a sandbox though to have stuff to offer

[still lily]

what does it offer tho

like without mod support its pretty mid.

the community made more master levels in weeks than the devs did in years lmao

and the dlcs being 20 dollars each for what.. 3 missions? And reskinned demons? and reused assets?

doesn't even have pvp. Halo has many different offers and things you can do in it. You can be in custom games playing absolutely random non halo shit, be into super competitive pvp, playing casually, 4 player campaign co-op fucking around in levels with the sandbox. and nowadays just mod it into basically anything you want with steam workshop support and well defined mod tools but DE literally has none of that. 2016 has snapmap which is what it truly has special to offer. and the MP was causal and an attempt at least. with very good bots.

[tepid jolt]

Doom has fast refined gameplay with a varied enemy roster and well designed arsenal. It does one thing but it does it very well

Also you can carry your whole arsenal at once. Halo combat just feels slow and boring to me due to the lack of those specific things

Sandbox design doesn’t really appeal to me

[halcyon bear]

Facts how's the snow there ?

[halcyon bear]

New halo is pretty trash man and this is coming from someone who stood in line midnight madness. The 343 games have all been bad and I wish the best for the franchise

[still lily]

i mean duh. 343 is so incompetent

but at least halo 5 and infifnte forge was really fun

[halcyon bear]

Forge is great

[still lily]

they still have solid custom games

[snow heron]

The fast gameplay and core loop around weapon swapping and resource management (granted more so in Eternal) to say the game doesn’t offer much since it doesn’t have official mod support is sort of stupid. Even without official mod support though the community has made great stuff. The stuff you post for example is incredible.

[tepid jolt]

Doom’s core mechanics are very very good. Things happen fast, you’re often punished for playing scared, enemies get to be really distinct and varied, weapons are kinda like different moves in a beat em up where they each address specific problems instead of having a specific loadout.

I don’t play much FPS multiplayer but I’ve played a good amount single player and Halo was the single most disappointing shooter I’ve ever tried to play

[winter stream]

Yep. They said they would do that as a replacement for snapmap. But as soon as I heard that I called it that they wouldn't follow through on it.

As far as things to offer goes, I'm pretty sure snow is talking about how there's not enough content besides a scripted campaign to engage in said combat loop. (Snapmap being the exception) Playing the same campaign over and over just doesn't cut it for things to do. Doom Eternal was just a game I played once and moved on

[snow heron]

And they didn’t. Real shame though I’m sure COVID had a role to play in it all on top of the development of TAG2 and Master Levels

id had a lot on there plate so I don’t really blame them. If anything they just shouldn’t have overpromised

[winter stream]

I question covid being a significant factor

As opposed to an excuse

Most teams connect with online communcation tools like Slack even when in an office setting

At best its easier to be lazy and get away with it when at home

[snow heron]

Well considering they where working on other stuff. They had to build the levels, texture them, model any new props or characters, then play test and look for bugs. Not to mention they had to wait for Andrew and David to finish up the music.

[winter stream]

I'm not even talking about pre-release of the campaign and DLCs, theres still nothing even after the DLCs were finished other than a horde mode

Meanwhile, people are making master level mods alone with nothing more than a text editor and not the more convenient visual tools they would have

[snow heron]

Oh I see what you mean. Yeah they could have (and should have) added mod support post Horde Mode

[winter stream]

They're probably unable to release the dev tools to the public because of Bethesda or Zenimax, which would suggest that mod support was never on the table from the start

[still lily]

ultrakill does it better lmao

plus that is going to have mod support and a level editor

[still lily]

what halo did you play. half of them are masterpieces and the other half are eye rippingly terrible

halo 4 is literally one of the worst fps games ever made

[still lily]

this aswell

no matter how tight the gameplay loop is (which imo isnt even that special) thats literally ALL it has to offer. thats it. 1 experience. paying 70 dollars for the main game and dlcs for at most maybe 30 hours of content if you 100% the game. Theres nothing more. it has nothing else to offer. Just like Terra i beat the game and both dlcs on nightmare and just uninstalled. battlemode was a hilarious waste of dev time. I wish it was just snapmap instead. or hell, actual PvP.

Mods arent offically supported so they're not to be counted as offers from it

I'll forever be salty of them taking out snapmap in the hopes of mod support and never coming. Idk who to blame but bethesda, zenimax, id, whoever. absolutely fumbled.

so i basically just want to mod the game out of spite. and figure out enough to just make it moddable enough for what i want. smh.

hi

[snow heron]

Which they don’t have any set deadlines for. ULTRAKILLs development is less constrained by deadlines. Unless stated otherwise it’s always been “it’s done when it’s done”

[still lily]

which is how all games should be

but corpos as usual are incompetent

[snow heron]

Yeah. Would prefer delays to iron out bugs. Instead of releasing a half finished product

[still lily]

indie and mods. really seem to be the only things appealing to me nowadays. The Finals looks like a fun FPS and that offers crazy destruction.

i played it myself during the Beta. muah. its so fucking fun

i just wish corpo devs were more down to earth and reachable.

[oak comet]

How do quickly kill off pinkies?

[tepid jolt]

Halo 1. The guns felt pitiful, the enemies were comically nondescript, and Master Chief was slower at full speed than Doom 3 marine’s base walking speed.

[oak comet]

Like I do it the normal way but I need a quicker way to do it for cases where I need to immediately escape

[tepid jolt]

Incidentally part of how I’ve gotten my money’s worth for Doom (and several other series) is replay value. I’ve played Doom Eternal at least 8-9 full playthroughs, not counting DLC, master levels, and Horde Mode

[still lily]

the guns are amazing? What planet are you on? Even the plasma pistol hits hard. DE isn't nearly as replayable.

[halcyon bear]

The assault rifle in hce is one of the most satisfying guns to use.. I mean.. they nailed the feeling of weapons. I'm sorry but your thoughts on this are fundamentally wrong

[still lily]

jump over their charge, hit them in the back, or just siege mode or ssg them

[tepid jolt]

I don’t remember the pistol, but assault rifle felt like a squirt gun

[still lily]

it's funny because halo ce has one of the best ARs in history

[halcyon bear]

Absolutely

Not to even mention br

In Halo 2

[still lily]

its even usable on legendary. like for the flood i always keep it on me for the spores

ughhh halo 2 br my beloved

peak weaponry

[tepid jolt]

Not to mention the repetitive corridor shooting killed any patience or goodwill I had left by the time the escape pod crashed. I have literally never tried using guns that frustrated me more

[halcyon bear]

Just the power of every shot recoil bullet shells.. the Jump kill with a br.. just can't be beat

[still lily]

the only thing i dont like about CE is, its a bit jank. Movement and vehicle physics feel imprecise

[halcyon bear]

Halo ce and 2 3 are up there with battlefield 1 when it comes to feel and weapon fun . There's no question

[still lily]

but it was the first game ive ever played and came out in 2001

so its just great

[tepid jolt]

I think my main AR issue was that I somehow couldn’t hit a target with it even once outside point blank

[still lily]

its not a precision weapon

[halcyon bear]

Tap fire. Worked in my og x box and dukes. Should still work now

[still lily]

the reticle and spread should tell you that

tap firing works but why even

Halo 2 is peak fps tho. god i adore it.

[halcyon bear]

Plasma shield down combo. Still was a thing in ce

[still lily]

yeah but just use magnum for that

[halcyon bear]

I mean if you didn't have pistol

[still lily]

sure ig. but that's rare

[halcyon bear]

It's probably more rare to have a plasma p mag

[tepid jolt]

I wanted to like Halo CE but it was maybe the most miserable experience I’ve had with any FPS

[still lily]

idk all you need is plasma pistol tbh

shits so good even uncharged

[halcyon bear]

Fire rates the slowest in the series but had punch

[still lily]

you haven't played very many games then. It's great. Keep in mind the game is older than me.

[tepid jolt]

Scratch that, trying to play 64 Goldeneye was worse

[still lily]

also play co-op shit is amazing

[halcyon bear]

Kids these days haha

[still lily]

did you even beat it tho?

like i at least beat DE on nightmare before talking shit. like ive learned the gameplay loop im good enough. i feel like ive seen enough to truly judge it

its not for me

[halcyon bear]

Hope youre not talking about me young one

[still lily]

no

molly

[halcyon bear]

Ah

[tepid jolt]

No I didn’t beat it. I was thoroughly out of patience by the first dropship attack and refunded. I only said anything about it because it keeps getting brought up as a counterexample

[still lily]

lmao

[halcyon bear]

Molly's first experience of Halo was most likely mcc. When I was a kid it was metriod prime and Halo as new options to play. You can tell just comparing between those 2 how much it blew shooters out the fucking water

[still lily]

Regardless of how you personally feel. Halo still has much more to offer

than modern doom. Again, actual pvp, mod support now, co-op, a replayable sandbox

[halcyon bear]

Yikes that's not true

Unless you mean just new doom

[still lily]

modern doom*

[halcyon bear]

Ahh then ya. The fact doom doesn't have a forge or map creation is a fucking sin

[tepid jolt]

Content is only as good as the core gameplay loop. I hated the Halo combat that defines it. I’ve played mostly 90s FPS games and games modeled after them

[still lily]

no?

with mod support you could just change the core comabt loop entirely

Hell, here in doom snapmap we are making a space flight simulator

[tepid jolt]

Then you’ve basically just made a new game with someone else’s assets

[still lily]

its the beauty of offers. something more.

[still lily]

and thats fucking awesome!

[halcyon bear]

Methodical shooters like Halo were a breath of fresh air. Slowing down combat and movement for a more player based Methodical environment shooter was great. It's a trope now but then it was actually very unique and fun using your brain like In golden eye

[still lily]

It's so unlike doom as a franchise to not offer anything more. Classic doom has pvp, mods, overhuals sooooo much that keeps it alive. While it isnt for me, it absolutely shows the value of having more than just a linear campaign.

[halcyon bear]

Definitely understand

[tepid jolt]

Sure

[still lily]

2016 has snapmap and MP which gives it value in my eyes

and DE has none of that. so i dont really see what it offers for someone like me.

[tepid jolt]

I basically just want campaign stuff, so DE made me pretty happy

[halcyon bear]

It does have a ton of mod support pc but it's not like mod injectors are common knowledge

[still lily]

yeah i can see how all normies wanted was content to consume. but as a creator i just beg for mod support or a level editor. Or at least make the campaign replayabe enough to get monies worth. which imo it doesnt.

[tepid jolt]

I think of mods as a bonus rather than a core appeal

[still lily]

its not offically supported so its not an offer. also all the mods Avaliable are rather simplistic.

probably because i know how they work

lmao

[halcyon bear]

Well doom would fundamentally be dead without carmacks decision to open source

[tepid jolt]

I know. I think the lack of official mod support sucks

[still lily]

exaclty. thats why im not begging cod for mod support (even though black ops 3 has amazing mod support). Its just. Any game would be better with it! But its just soooo unlike doom.

[tepid jolt]

My point is that the game still has a lot going for it

[still lily]

imo it really doesn't

[tepid jolt]

What it has not appealing to you is different from there not being stuff

[still lily]

all it has is a campaign

[halcyon bear]

Oh absolutely. Doom and shooters have this issue where fans will tear things down and compare while Mario fans are on their 374794 playthrough of Mario 64 or sunshine without a piss take In sight