doom-2016

[tepid jolt]

Difficulty dependent IIRC

[scenic nexus]

Does anyone play the multi-player anymore I was trying to 100% the game but can't get trophies without multiplayer

[honest musk]

Snapmap was gud

i remember that there was a fnaf map

[winter stream]

still is, and better than ever

[still lily]

😭 so sad thats all people remember. really wish more people would look back at it now.

[elder meadow]

2016 was so worth my 5 bucks

[still lily]

absolutely

its a steal. so much content

[proper ermine]

This whole spring sale is a steal

[elder meadow]

Can I get the gist of how ultra nightmare works?
If I save my mission can I continue after dying?

from the same level

No

You gotta restart

oof

That's the big challenge of ultra nightmare

the first three levels are hard

there are 5 hidden achievements in steam
is one of them beating the game on un?

I imagine so

Ik there's snapmaps for classic doom but how do I unlock all the classic levels, do I just find all the levers

no idea about snapmaps i only played a couple

They're cool

I played a pacman level and some classic maps reimagined

oh ye I played e1m1

don't know about other classic levels

Well in 2016 you can play the entirety of e1 with the modern weapons

I'm just trying to figure out how to unlock them all

Ok yeah you just find all the levers

cool

Oh wait no it's just the most iconic levels

So it's a fair amount of the 3 episodes and some of doom 2

[elder meadow]

is there the classic cyberdemon fight level

Yes

oooo

wow imps are good at aiming

they do like 60 damage

[tepid jolt]

On Nightmare they can oneshot you

Seriously

[elder meadow]

yep i died twice on the second level

it says the torment has ended
does that mean the slayer has been in suffering

i've played the older games but I don't know much about the story

[elder meadow]

Imps on ultra violence are fucking infuriating so it feels real good destroying them with the super shotgun

yep and the first three levels
especially foundary are very annoying

Funny that hell knights and hell razers are the ones I have the least problems with

really? i find them scary until I get my arsenal

the last fight in foundry

those two hell knights are scary

I have a really good rhythm with the combat shotgun and just shooting a bomb at them, shooting them until it reloads, rinse and repeat until I can glory kill

epic

Keep your distance with them

the stun also helps

Yes

[elder meadow]

it's mainly there smash the ground thing

I think it's a sensible move to go with health instead of ammo on un

[halcyon bear]

I usually go with ammo. Health really isn't to important once you're nightmare level. Hopefully you know what you're doing by then

[elder meadow]

As a person who's not good at dodging
upgrading health for the first three levels really helps

after that I can alternate between ammo and health

[still lily]

armor chads

the virgin health/ammo chooser fears the armor upgrader

[halcyon bear]

Nothing says Chad like needing more armor because you get hit to much

[still lily]

"i need ammo 🤓" haha cant aim .

[halcyon bear]

Ammo just let's ya clear the game faster without to much chainsaw. Bragging about armor is just letting everyone know you're to shitty and keep getting pegged

[still lily]

dude take a joke goddamn

[halcyon bear]

I am hahaha

I actually like armor

Armor and ammo. Not health at all lately though

[still lily]

obviously ammo is best

chainsawing and being desperate for ammo every encounter sucks shit. like really? 20 shots? pathetic.

i can carry more shells in my asscheeks

[halcyon bear]

Exactly I rather just have what I need deal with the problem and move on

[honest musk]

there is too much ammo in the game

[still lily]

lmao

[halcyon bear]

The division begins

[tepid jolt]

“20 shots? Pathetic”
Wait till you see Eternal’s ammo situation

[leaden path]

Both new doom games change the aspect ratio of my monitor on launch for no reason and it sucks. I’m eternal I can change it in game, but in 2016 when I change it in game, nothing changes.

[elder meadow]

Omg yes I just started replaying it on UV yesterday and the imps are evil shits

[elder meadow]

These fucking cacodemons

[elder meadow]

I hate that you instantly die after falling

Thank god Doom Eternal fixed that problem

[bronze bear]

Yea if doomguys such a badass demon ripper he should be able to tank some fall damage

[vague quarry]

agreed

[elder meadow]

Into the fire was fucking painful

[vague quarry]

what difficulty you playin on?

[elder meadow]

Ultra violence

[vague quarry]

i recently finished a run in ultra violence, kinda fun.

[elder meadow]

It is but man that got annoying near the end

[vague quarry]

yea... the part i struggled on the most was the part you have to disable vega

[halcyon bear]

They're even worse nightmare. They'll one shot you

[elder meadow]

That sounds like shit

[elder meadow]

2016: let’s say I missed an argent cell at the beginning of a level. If I finish the level and return to main menu and replay the level and collect it, can I just quit the level from there, or do I have to complete it again to keep the upgrade?

[proper ermine]

Well in eternal you kept the upgrade if you left but idk about 2016

[halcyon bear]

You're gold after foundry though.

[still lily]

horrific

terrifying even

[south junco]

somehow I managed to play this game without knowing the Rich Get Richer rune existed

the more ya know

[still lily]

dont use it 😭

they should've made quality of life stuff like savagery and in-flight mobility Preator upgrades instead

or something that doesnt take up precious rune slots

[halcyon bear]

That's honorable. It's for the weak

[south junco]

bruh

if I'd known I would've abused that rune so much

[tepid jolt]

Doom 2016 being crazy generous with ammo is the main reason I don’t really care for it personally.

[proper ermine]

Doom 2016 wasnt the craziest challenge specially compared to doom eternal

But ofc it being doom still brings some challenge

[halcyon bear]

Nightmares Harder in 2016 by a metric shiton

Eternals nightmare plays more like how uv should be while 2016s until mid game most enemies can 1 shot you

[wet halo]

For SURE

[proper ermine]

Damn ig nightmare ain't that much of a nightmare in eternal huh

[elder meadow]

God climbing argent tower is so tedious

[elder meadow]

Honestly it wasn't too bad for me just the floating part was weird to figure out

[elder meadow]

The charged imp fireball man

The only scary thing about 2016 is when you have 50 hp and there are like 8 imps in the room

[still lily]

lol. eternal is easy compared to 2016

[proper ermine]

Tbh idk

[still lily]

i beat DE nightmare no problem on my 2nd run

2016 nightmare took me awhile tho

shits rough

[proper ermine]

I think it's more of how difficult nightmare is

I heard in 2016's nightmare the demons would pretty much one shot you

[still lily]

basically 2 shot

i died to imps 90% of the time

[acoustic sapphire]

in 2016 it's harder to recover from mistakes

coz the resource collection gets nerfed

at least that's how i felt on the earlier nightmare levels after replaying it

[still lily]

i mean yeah. in eternal ur just kinda unkillable tbh. only random cheese mechanics got me. like purple goop

fire whoever added purple goop

[acoustic sapphire]

haha, i still remember that stream where the devs reacted to a speedrun of DE and their solution to half the stuff was purple goo in the skybox

[still lily]

doomguy so weak he cant even lift his fat feet out of 1 inch deep goop

[still lily]

terrifying

[boreal quartz]

Impact compensation

[halcyon bear]

100 percent. The imp is s teir in nightmare. Which is why I actually love the tactical scope

[elder meadow]

Isn't it problematic in small rooms

[halcyon bear]

Depends how good you are with snap aiming and head shots

[elder meadow]

one micro missile also puts them in stagger

[halcyon bear]

Whatever youre comfortable with. Majority of people aren't to good with the scope so avoid it or don't know it's potential. Micro missles are fantastic though

[elder meadow]

yep

[inner blaze]

i just beat this game for the first time :D

i've now officially finished every doom game

[cold root]

did you guys tried to play 2016 like it's Eternal?

by that, I mean intentionally keeping your ammo low so you have to constantly chainsaw something and quick swapping

[elder meadow]

it's a great game, good job bro

[vague quarry]

ngl playing doom 2016 like eternal kinda fun bc of just being able constantly switch between super shotgun and guass cannon

op combo ngl

[elder meadow]

ikr
I go with the rocket launcher -> gauss cannon -> combat shotgun -> super shotgun

[vague quarry]

samee

its rlly satisfying to use for whatever reason

[west ermine]

My game is experiencing frame stutters consistently like every second, ive tried lowering settings, no change, ive tried closing backround tasks, no change. Whenever walking into a new area, in combat, and everytime i open the pause menu/PDA, the game starts to stutter once a second, occasionally it will fix to perfect frames and as soon as I interact with anything it goes back to stuttering.
Anyone having similar problems?

[vague quarry]

no not rlly.. prob cuz i play on console though

[willow grail]

hello

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zd8WTz71dAQ after watching this video i need a slayer collectible

I am willing to pay everything

[boreal stirrup]

find a real life secret then

[willow grail]

XDD

[proper ermine]

They're selling doom eternal collectibles on bigbadtoystore for like 40 dollars

Or you could 3d print one

[elder meadow]

the heck

[elder meadow]

just translated it
damn

[elder meadow]

Why does doom crash on vulkan graphics so much

[proper ermine]

i guess it just aint good then

[halcyon bear]

It shouldn't unless you're having driver issues. I have an amd and use vulkun for everything

[elder meadow]

I have all my drivers up to date
I even lowered my graphics settings but it still crashes sometimes when I alt+tab to switch apps
the crashes never happened when I used opengl

[winter stream]

Yeah alt tabbing with vulkan is a consistent crash problem. Though it only seems to happen if using Full-screen. Borderless and windowed don't have that problem from my experience.

[elder meadow]

I see, thanks

[winter stream]

Np

[lament girder]

i had forgotten how pathetic the rocket launcher was in this

literally need to master remote det in order for it to deal the dmg it should

[elder meadow]

You need to use so many rockets to kill 1 Mancubus

[halcyon bear]

Ya but remote detonation is absolutely amazing

With bleed stack it'll kill a hellknight and nearby fodder in one volley

[willow grail]

¿!40!?

[willow grail]

you do not know Spanish?

XD

[lament girder]

actually scrap that most modless firemodes in 2016 suck

HAR takes up 20 shots to down a soldier, shotgun may or may not fart even at pointblank, SSG deals pathetic damage without any upgrades, RL is underwhelming, plasma is a bubble gun, chaingun deals too little DMG and the windup makes it useless, gauss is decent, BFG is OP, grenades might as well not exist

over half the guns in the roster crutch on mods to become viable and that's discounting upgrades

[hushed vault]

2016's balance is fucked as hell man

I'm not sure even a remaster could fix it

[winter stream]

awful game design to make weapon upgrades make the gun better

[still lily]

yes plasma rifle should instantly gib every demon in 1 shot and ssg needs to have 50 more pellets added to the base weapon.

luckily modding weapons is super easy in this game

so you could rebalance them all urself

[winter stream]

I'd be very curious what their idea of a well balanced weapon sandbox would look like

[still lily]

halo reach

plasma repeater > dmr ong

[winter stream]

cause if I hear "Doom Eternal" I'll laugh. Guns rely on mods to be powerful there too

[still lily]

i like progression so idk. making upgrades matter doesnt seem so bad

[winter stream]

weapon mods are the only avenue to upgrade weapons, so ofc the base gun is basically for early game fodder

[still lily]

right i didnt even think about that. like theres no. base gun upgrades. so theyre all basically designed to kill a soldier when you first get them

[winter stream]

other than SSG and gatling mod

[still lily]

gatling is trash

mobile turret my beloved

i think uranium rounds are pretty good i heard tho

i just dont bother i like BRRRRRRTTTT

[winter stream]

uranium rounds are on mobile turret too

[still lily]

oh

havent played campaign in ages

[winter stream]

me neither I just looked it up

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/832527939153297448/1088924983205564496/image.png

[tepid jolt]

Eternal is at least more balanced. Like it’s one thing to have mods upstage the primary fire half the time, it’s another to have effectively unlimited ammo for the most powerful nonsuper weapon in the game

[halcyon bear]

Absolutely. Nothing makes me more sad than seeing a ssg only playthrough

[winter stream]

not even really defending the game overall, I just found that reasoning in particular baffling

[halcyon bear]

I agree with you. Silly thing to say

[tepid jolt]

The main reasons I don’t come back to this one are how the upgrades that are basically handed to you can trivialize so much of the strategy stuff and the movement feeling really awkward for reasons I can’t articulate

[halcyon bear]

I'm actually working on a tac scope montage. It really is fantastic but is overshadowed by micro

[halcyon bear]

Movement feeling awkward may just be a you thing. Feels fantastic for me even compared to other shooters by far

2016 compared to 2016 shooters.. pure butter haha

[winter stream]

as for the ammo issue, while encouraging weapon variety is good, I find DE more just encourages sitting through chainsaw animations all the time

though iirc the hammer in the dlc gives ammo too right?

[halcyon bear]

But I have to give credit the chainsaw feels more natural

[tepid jolt]

The closest I can come to an explanation is how it has more momentum than the original games and a fraction of the speed

[winter stream]

I think it would be cooler and more visceral if the chainsaw cutting path could be manually controlled lmao

[tepid jolt]

I really don’t play modern shooters much so I’m not comparing to them

[halcyon bear]

I think that was just a design choice to make combat more fluid. I like both tbh

[halcyon bear]

Do you play quake

[tepid jolt]

I think it could be cool in a future title to have the chainsaw not have gas but instead it works like 3 and earlier where it’s not an instakill and you’re vulnerable while doing it

I have played Quake but didn’t like it much. My main shooter experience outside Doom is Ultrakill and Viscerafest, which is like if Doom Eternal and Blood had a baby

[winter stream]

my favourite iteration of an execution type system is still Metal Gear Rising

[halcyon bear]

Dusk?

[tepid jolt]

I played some Dusk. Its movement feels fine

[halcyon bear]

The majority of people I've talked to have told me dusk has some of the best movement and fluid combat out there and I agree. Just wanted to get a sense exactly what you find smooth but I don't think I will now hahahaha

[tepid jolt]

Doom 2016 movement doesn’t feel clunky to me so much as slow. He’s objectively not slow but he feels slow, at least by comparison to the other Doom games

[halcyon bear]

Can't deny its slower than classic. That's just facts

[tepid jolt]

In particular he feels like he takes forever to get to speed if you stop for any reason, even if it’s just to adjust your aim or check the map (things I have to do a lot)

[lament girder]

strafe and backpedal speed is slower than forward sprint speed in 2016 for whatever reason

it's fixed values for all directions in eternal

[tepid jolt]

That could be why

[sharp blaze]

Agreed, although I feel like it's just the lack of a sprint or dash option

[grim wigeon]

Yee I went back to 2016 after Eternal and felt very weighed down, mostly because I couldn't dash lol

[sharp blaze]

I actually played doom 1993, doom eternal, then the rest of the games in that order which definitely affected my view of the rest of the series

[cold root]

first time I played DE, I obviously played it like it was 2016, which of course was not good

[halcyon bear]

I've noticed that with a few people. Really is a muscle memory issue

I haven't once been like I can't play A game 2016 anymore because I was playing eternal before or classic or dusk ect

[grim wigeon]

Yee once you get so used to being so fast and agile, it's really difficult going back to not

[halcyon bear]

But ya eternal has a habit of putting your muscle memory out of focus even if it's for a little while

[grim wigeon]

Although I was able to transition from DE to 1993 easily

I went and fucked around in the fortress for a bit and blazed through a couple of the classic maps on the computer

[halcyon bear]

Nice ! Always a solid time !

[grim wigeon]

Yee, I just think it's easier to switch between the pacing of some games than it is for others. My main problem was probably that I came from a fully completed DE save and then started playing 2016 on my not even half complete UV save

I didn't even have air control or double jump lmao

[grim wigeon]

Anyone else's loading screen try to give them a seizure?

[elder meadow]

Eternal has a lot of jumping and moving around the room

in 2016 you stay stuck to the ground the majority of the time

and yes it is hard to switch between those two games

it messes up the rhythm

[halcyon bear]

I mean if you play that way. I definitely don't stay on the ground when I play

Which is why air control and such exists

I really hope people aren't just walking around in 2016 lol

[elder meadow]

Oh by that I mean not flying 200 miles an hour in the air
I do jump n shit in 2016 but obv you cant play it like eternal

[halcyon bear]

Hahahaha ya I was guessing that's what you mean. Epic

[elder meadow]

mhm

[elder meadow]

I hear that a lot so I’m delaying Eternal

[lament girder]

for me its a combination of the weapons, enemies and combat flow being pretty underwhelming in 2016 more than just being slower

[halcyon bear]

That's a hard disagree from me. Especially if the only comparison people make is eternal. For me everything you mentioned is extremely better than most shooters out there even today

[proper ermine]

Doom 2016 wasnt really slow

[halcyon bear]

Not at all that's a eternal jank muscle memory issue. Not a game issue

[proper ermine]

Lmao yeah the muscle memory of eternal kinda fucks up 2016 for a lot of people

Pb is entirely different and doesn't do that much dmg

[halcyon bear]

Calling the game anything but a masterpiece is sad.. literally saved and revived boomer shooters and shooters in general was praised for all the things mentioned above that it apparently is"lacking" damn sin and a shame anyone feels that way

[elder meadow]

2016 is NOT slow it literally made me motionsick the first time I played it

[proper ermine]

Played the demo and it was kinda fun

[halcyon bear]

They wouldn't have made a sequel if the game wasn't a banger. It's a award winning beloved game ( for most doom fans) definitely shouldn't miss out on it

[sharp blaze]

Doom 2016 is a great, fast paced game, but eternal made it look slow because of how fast it was

[tepid jolt]

I can respect Doom 2016 for what it accomplished and how, but I can’t bring myself to play it again.

[halcyon bear]

Shame

[lament girder]

between the glaring enemy and weapon balancing issues and the way the game never takes control away from you i wouldn't dream of calling the game anything above serviceable.

[halcyon bear]

Just sounds like you're talking out your ass although I agree with weapon balance. What do you feel makes the enemies unbalanced

And what do you mean never takes control away from you ?

[red flume]

How is the game not taking control away from you a negative

that's like the thing DooM should do

[lament girder]

very educated way of opening up conversation with 'talking out of your ass'

[halcyon bear]

He must mean something else

[lament girder]

in the sense you're never not in control of any combat situation. the enemies are too stupid and too few and far between in any arena to get clear shots in on you coupled with their slow reaction times and movement

[halcyon bear]

To few ?

Now I know you're talking out your ass hahahaha

Honestly just sounds like another eternal first player

Slow movement? Again wrong

[lament girder]

because every encounter takes place in arenas and their AI is dynamic they can never be placed in situations where they can get the drop in in you. they're designed in such a way that youll always see them coming and be able to reach accordingly

[halcyon bear]

Game was also praised for ai

All this is just you making things up now

[proper ermine]

Played eternal first but no way am I complaining about 2016 ☠️

[lament girder]

I'm not but you're allowed to disagree

[red flume]

You're telling us you've never died to an off screen imp? It's possible but idk if I'd believe you.

[halcyon bear]

Ya that's just cringe but this is entertaining

[lament girder]

imps are another issue. it's like they knew the other high tier enemies wouldn't be a threat so they spammed every arena with them

since they're the only enemies that can reliably snipe you if you're not careful

hence why 75% of every arena is just imps

[halcyon bear]

They placed a common light enemy around a map. How could they. That doesn't sound like doom at all. Who puts imps everywhere. Mad Men

[lament girder]

and they're deemed more dangerous than any other AI in the game by far

[cyan glade]

@lament girder I agree. These points you make are the inspiration for my snapmap maps. I made them hardcore and very challenging. Sadly they died with my xbox. This game can be really fun but I barely even touched the campain.

[lament girder]

usually imps don't 1-2 shot you with charged fireballs because they couldn't be arsed to make the other enemies deadly

[halcyon bear]

Snapmap maker. Mad respect

[proper ermine]

[lament girder]

instead of pretending to laugh and blindly defend this game you could make an effort to understand it's shortcomings

[halcyon bear]

This is a great point actually I agree. The imp fireball power is to much

[halcyon bear]

I know where it's short. I just think the majority of your points aren't factual so I don't take it seriously. Some are though and I'll agree

[lament girder]

i haven't once commented on anything subjective though

the weapons are unreliable without mods or upgrades and you literally run circles around the AI

this is pretty terminal

2016 is either way too easy or bullshit because of the imps and SOLELY the imps

that's a pretty fucking big flaw to have one type of enemy in a series that takes pride in having a variety of monsters each filling different niches be the only enemy type to poise a significant threat to the player even in late game

and I'm not the first or last to make an observation on that front

[halcyon bear]

For the most part it's over exaggerated to the point of just sounding like blind hate. Balance issues sure. Imps fireballs yes but heavy use with light i think works fantastically enemy count for the arena works well and holds up. I just don't think only serviceable holds any water with any of your complaints

[halcyon bear]

This is just skill issue. Nightmare is a great time although early game can be hard for new players.

[lament girder]

if you 'just don't think' you agree with me then I don't know why say something like 'this game should be considered a masterpiece ' like nobody would contend that

I told you why the enemy balance is flawed

[halcyon bear]

Because other than you and 2 people in a room the majority would agree with me. There's no use arguing with some random about a game they don't like really

[lament girder]

'the majority would agree' lmao

[halcyon bear]

Yeah thanks for understanding

Now you sound rational

[lament girder]

the majority believes doom is a mindless horde game full of samey AI that sits still and waits for your shots and never once retaliates and 2016 feeds into that

are they correct in that assumption?

bottomline is 2016 has mediocre design

[halcyon bear]

I'd love to see your gameplay because you're either playing hurt me or like trash to feel this hurt and making this much up hahah

[warm flame]

Yea same

[lament girder]

sure

https://youtu.be/53XfFQzfPDQ

https://youtu.be/E3GgW6BFAXE

and here's the AI you swear isn't useless

[halcyon bear]

First off I want to say love that you're playing classic pose

[lament girder]

see how piss easy the game is despite it trying it's hardest

[halcyon bear]

I don't know man looks like this isn't nightmare

[cyan glade]

caugh BRUTAL DOOM

[lament girder]

yes it is

[warm flame]

It's a old game, this is as far as it gets-

[lament girder]

your eyes do not deceive you my brother in christ

you made a claim

this is indeed my response

[halcyon bear]

I have never ever seen gameplay like that. It's like my neice playing but you're somehow still getting through it. It's weird as fuck

[cyan glade]

[lament girder]

LOL

[halcyon bear]

I have to say I dig it

[warm flame]

You hate on it cause of its flaws, it's not going to change, so go ahead keep doing it

[lament girder]

why are you angry at my opinion

[halcyon bear]

Fair point you're allowed an opinion

[warm flame]

Just stating the fact, never said I was angry

[lament girder]

i guess i just have genuine trouble understanding how this game is meant to be a masterpiece

[winter stream]

how did you not take damage at 0:08? That was a pretty clear hit

[lament girder]

I strafed

[winter stream]

not soon enough

[halcyon bear]

I mean thats fine man. Personally I think the new God of wars are bad but I might be the only one

[lament girder]

you can see I took aoe damage from the ground pound

[cyan glade]

Honestly I enjoyed it to an extent, I would probably still be mapping if I had a left nut to sell for a new xbox

[halcyon bear]

Pc man. Some awesome snapmaps out there

[lament girder]

it's funny how now that I've posted evidence of me stomping the game all i get is scrutiny

I'll take it as me doing my job properly and backing up my arguments with demonstrable facts

[halcyon bear]

Not really stomping your playstyle is really strange but I dig it.

[lament girder]

so far i haven't heard anything on why the game should be considered a masterpiece

I mean it's a fine game

but I'd sooner consider 64 a runner-up for a masterpiece over it at least in terms of design

[cyan glade]

Oh fml I forgot it is on pc wait what? I can play that shit

[halcyon bear]

I don't really see the point of having a 30 paragraph fight with some dude on the internet who probably like me will not change their opinion. Honestly

[winter stream]

snapmap is a masterpiece. everything else is ok

lmao

[winter stream]

damn, that bad?

[lament girder]

aight then. guess that will forever remain clouded in mystery

[halcyon bear]

64 is a masterpiece

[still lily]

Multiplayer was fun
SnapMap while poor at launch was overlooked and now bloomed into something amazing.
The campaign was a solid reboot especially ballsy to revive something as revered as doom and it pulled it off convincingly well. The gameplay is solid, the levels are nice. Its just a cool fun game.

[halcyon bear]

Just for you and 3 other people yes

[lament girder]

gasp

[limber steppe]

hello

[cyan glade]

64 is even better with mods but yea it's great

[lament girder]

dare you badmouth 64

heathen

[limber steppe]

i dont have doom 2016

[halcyon bear]

You can even play 64 with added monsters now. Great time to be alive

[still lily]

get it, its like 5 bucks

[winter stream]

I struggle to believe that when it has so many awful level design decisions

[cyan glade]

BURN THE HERETIC

[limber steppe]

ok

[halcyon bear]

How so?

[limber steppe]

ill buy it when im done playing doom eternal

[lament girder]

you could just as easily go over the parts that constitute masterful design to you but all I've heard so far is 'the game is fine'
but cool I guess all 3 of us will have to live with it

[halcyon bear]

Me an papaya will make an alliance

[lament girder]

[halcyon bear]

You can maybe scroll up this chat. I had a whole game breakdown with a guy last weekend ironically who felt the same

Or Maybe that was another chat

[halcyon bear]

64

[winter stream]

I recall there being a level where you have to get a powerup to survive a hallway full of crushers, and you are forced to reset if you fail to make use of it for that purpose

and then there's a secret level where it's just dumb booby traps

haha you get armor? die

[lament girder]

64 and eternal (and parts of 1 and 2) are exactly like that
you're not just supposed to stroll through the levels focusing only on whether something spawns in or not

[still lily]

obviously if ur bad enough to need armor DIE!!!!!!

[lament girder]

the level design is there to throw you off and send you into optional paths with traps to sort out

[winter stream]

? That's my point, making a section require a powerup that doesn't respawn is stupid

[lament girder]

that's the whole point of exploration

[proper ermine]

[lament girder]

64 never once does that

[cyan glade]

Lmao

[halcyon bear]

I saw that

[lament girder]

I've genuine concern for what you might be referring to considering the game doesn't soft lock you

[still lily]

no. doom 2016 is an xbox 360 exclusive

[halcyon bear]

Yes also there's a great snapmap community and snaphak

[still lily]

snapmap based asf

[halcyon bear]

But man is the ability for players to search out maps bad. Really are alot of diamonds in the rough

[still lily]

thats what the server is for ig

[cyan glade]

I don't get why anyone is bashing after watching your videos. You make it look like the cakewalk it is.

[still lily]

Bethesda cant make social services for shit

[halcyon bear]

I'd love to see his un run. Would be interesting

[still lily]

i mean. sure. playing an early level with max upgrades would be pretty easy i imagine

[halcyon bear]

Absolutely

[still lily]

i still found 2016 nightmare much more difficult than DE nightmare, particularly early on where there aren't very much options. basically up to foundry. and like.. one part in vega core i remember dying at on UN a few times.

like the tram station part. idk why that fucking got me so many times

[halcyon bear]

If you start the game with max everything you're going to steam roll everything. Just a silly way to play and then say the games bad or ai is bad. I'm just not in the mood to argue with someone who doesn't like the game. Absolute waste of time

[still lily]

i mean if they dont like it they dont and probably wont. explaining why its good wont change that lol.

[lament girder]

I like that were forgetting the part where it's a custom level with high tier enemies

[winter stream]

if they liked the game, it wouldn't be an argument, it would be a circlejerk lmao

[still lily]

the classic high teir hell knight. unkillable infact.

[lament girder]

how dare I use my maxed out arsenal i worked up towards on hordes of high tier enemies

[lament girder]

i mean you can complain all you want and act derisive all day long. it still doesn't undo the fact the game is piss

[still lily]

if its soooo easy. just do UN.

[halcyon bear]

This is very true but it's more about what can be fixed what you like about the game sharing experiences. I don't get that vibe here more of a general dislike which is fine

[lament girder]

what makes you think

1. that's a viable counterargument
2. i haven't done UN before

please elaborate

why is not a single one of you able to bring up a solid argument

[proper ermine]

Why the fuck is this still going

[lament girder]

I have no idea

[halcyon bear]

No clue

[still lily]

uhh. because if you think its easy. ultranightmare is harder cuz you start with no upgrades and only have 1 shot. whats the issue?

also you could always just mod it. rather easily to be harder.

[lament girder]

are you for real?

Jesus Christ what am I reading

what is this argument

[proper ermine]

One man vs all

[still lily]

i think ur problem is thinking im arguing with you lmao

[winter stream]

i dunno, you didn't exactly address the counterargument that the hellknight is not a high tier enemy with anything solid either

[halcyon bear]

I've been in this discord to long

[lament girder]

that's not even an argument

It's an excuse to sideline the fact there's barons, both mancubi versions, revenants and summoners in that level

[still lily]

didnt you know? arguments dont exist in this timeline. unless I say they are ones

[lament girder]

and it's still easy

[still lily]

ok so uhh mod it. gg gamer.

[winter stream]

"I'm fighting a custom level with hordes of high tier enemies"
"A single hell knight with a supporting soldier or 2 isn't hordes of high tier enemies"
not an argument apparently

[lament girder]

hasn't watched more than 2 minutes of footage

this is my argument

[winter stream]

the video in question is 25 seconds

[lament girder]

why are you trying this hard? where are you getting at with this?

[manic token]

Hello

[proper ermine]

don't come in here,its a nightmare right now

[halcyon bear]

I think it's best to just drop it. Some people love things others dislike. That's just life

[manic token]

I want poblem for register my poblom

[lament girder]

that's an example of the AI not doing anything even on a 1v1 scenario

[proper ermine]

#community-support?

[manic token]

Ok thanks

[lament girder]

i can bait barons too, wanna see me do it?

so you can eat your words?

[proper ermine]

Yeah pretty much

[winter stream]

a 1 on 1 fight is always going to be easy, doom eternal included

[proper ermine]

Like some people love doom but others dont

Some people like fast paced games others prefer slower paced ones

[lament girder]

the hell knight introduction in eternal is succinct and you can't dash away from his ground pounds

[proper ermine]

Some people love cod others don't

[lament girder]

he's much, much better at leading them

and the AOE is larger

[still lily]

ur saying its its super easy so it's not good and isnt a masterpiece. (as if a game needs to be ultra difficult to be good or something) and im just saying there's options out there. Like UN runs and Modding. I personally found this harder than DE, so to each their own. I'm not gonna change a mind as stubborn as you and am not trying to.

[halcyon bear]

Honestly when you got to heavy fights your movement was great and you weren't melting just playing and you had several very close calls. It honestly looked like you were having a good time there. It's weird you weren't but that's cool

[tepid jolt]

Sauntering into social situations and picking fights for no real reason is just bad etiquette. Please leave or change subject to something less belligerent, either works for me

[halcyon bear]

Great swaps also

[proper ermine]

Yes, a game doesn't need to be ultra hard to be a masterpiece

[winter stream]

"arguments bad, must avoid, return to hivemind"

[proper ermine]

But then again, this entire fucking thing depends on opinion

[halcyon bear]

Good to see ya how's the mighty doom grind going

[winter stream]

I will never understand the idea that arguments are a bad thing

[tepid jolt]

I beat Exultia finally

[still lily]

mighty doom grind.
the energy system sucks 😭

[proper ermine]

"Several people are typing" scares the fuck out of me

[lament girder]

the weapon balance is borked, 80% of the roster is useless and is the reason why imps are overused. the enemy placement and usage isn't effective and their roles in combat aren't well established.

I'm not wanting the game to be harder because I'm a self-proclaimed hardcore gamer or what have you. I'm saying the game isn't balanced. i don't think it's scatterbrained to ask for a game to make sense before it's touted 'a masterpiece'.
i don't know if you calling me stubborn is some attempt at 'no u'ing me, or if you flatout can't follow what i'm saying, but nothing you're replied to me with so far has made sense, or been in tune with anything i said.

[tepid jolt]

Arguments are good when and only when they serve a purpose. This argument does not

[halcyon bear]

Nice ! I'm on the leaderboards on speedrun.com

[cyan glade]

Yes.

[halcyon bear]

Number 1 actually

[proper ermine]

Amazing if only I could play

[winter stream]

they are not bad either. They are inconsequential at worst

[still lily]

you cant even watch an ad to refill it so you just kinda done after doing the daily challenges and like 1 main level.

[halcyon bear]

True beat the game now nothing to do

[tepid jolt]

I’m bad at Mighty Doom but I’m enjoying it.

[halcyon bear]

Struggles real

[winter stream]

when they going to add static rifle lmao

[still lily]

i wish less things were luck based

but yessss they need to add more 2016 stuff

[lament girder]

this is the 2016 channel.

[still lily]

where is 2016 Preator?

[proper ermine]

Every game is luck based

[halcyon bear]

Burst rifle got it bad lol

[winter stream]

there is different kinds of luck

[tepid jolt]

I look forward to seeing more chapters and especially more demons. I’d like to particularly see some Doom 3 demons make a comeback

[proper ermine]

Except maybe a few like eternal but most multiplayer games are luck based

[still lily]

ok? i still wish things were less luck based.

[proper ermine]

So do I man, so do I 😔

[lament girder]

it's luck that 2016 imps don't snipe you out of the air, you should be fine with a bit of RNG.

[still lily]

they need to add summoner, all 2016 exclusive weapons like reaper and grenade launcher, 2016 preator suit and even some levels like vega core or foundry. then id be happy

[proper ermine]

Nah not summoner just add the archville

[lament girder]

archvile > summoner anyday

[proper ermine]

Archville is more iconic

[winter stream]

why not both

[halcyon bear]

More 2016 love in it would be great

[proper ermine]

That won't work for mighty doom cuz they'll just be the same exact thing

[winter stream]

uh no?

[lament girder]

also, this is still the 2016 channel.

[still lily]

a bit? have you played mighty doom? Staggering is luck based, Crits are luck based, Dodges are luck basedm what else... luck headshots.

[tepid jolt]

Having summoner be a mini-Archevile could work

[still lily]

its fine to go a bit off topic from time to time its okay

[proper ermine]

You mean like have archville be the boss while the summoner is a normal enemy?

[halcyon bear]

Since its based off of eternal they could just be spirits

[tepid jolt]

Yeah something like that

[still lily]

just have both as bosses and enemies. they're different enough.

[tepid jolt]

Spirits would also work

[proper ermine]

Interesting but with what it is now it seems that every demon needs to be a boss

[winter stream]

idk they should just have unique bosses intead of big demon

[proper ermine]

Don't forget abilities

[tepid jolt]

I was going to suggest Vagary but boobs could be a problem. I guess they could fudge the design a little

[halcyon bear]

That would take effort you mad man

[still lily]

who

[tepid jolt]

Doom 3’s spiderdemon

[still lily]

oh

[proper ermine]

I legit need to pray that I get a dmg boost or attack speed boost or some good upgrade

[winter stream]

I'm legit planning on making a mighty doom in snapmap without the luck systems and custom boss fights

[still lily]

never played that game.

[still lily]

vased asf

[proper ermine]

Mighty doom seems to only have doom 2016 and eternal content (aside from the classic skin)

[halcyon bear]

What maps have you made? I'll check them out

[tepid jolt]

Mighty Doom is a roguelite. Adapting to high RNG is kind of the point

[still lily]

RIGHT i somehow forgot about that. yucky. some guns almost completely rely on upgrades to be good. so it really sucks when rng screws u

[winter stream]

sure, but for many roguelites, the luck doesn't carry over to the core combat loop.

[proper ermine]

Heavy cannon relies on it imo plus chaingun

[tepid jolt]

I do think they could reign it in a little though

[winter stream]

the excessive luck mechanics in mighty doom is just a product of it being an archero reskin with an extra mechanic or two

[proper ermine]

But what could we do archero does the exact same thing and the game is based on the like archero style so we cant do shit

[still lily]

yes game. i TOTTALLY want the choice betwen
[Max Health] [Explosive Glory Kills] [First Impressions]
SOOO useful game! Thanks!

[proper ermine]

Eh i'd say its harder and bit more different

[proper ermine]

Max health helps my goofy ass

Plus first impressions helps fix a bit of that glory kill rng you talked about

[winter stream]

mobile games are all just regurgitations of eachother

[proper ermine]

Bad example mate

[halcyon bear]

You won't need it once you have 27k health

[proper ermine]

I fucking dont

[still lily]

it really isnt. because i literally run every stagger upgrade sometimes and go a full 2-4 rooms no GK

[proper ermine]

I'm at doom hunter base and I only got like 3k base

No wonder I die a lot

[winter stream]

Whenever I get it I don't ever notice a significant difference in staggered enemies at the beginning of encounters

[proper ermine]

Kind of fair

[still lily]

why doesn't it just show numbers??

why must i guess

[proper ermine]

Oh yeah right the percentage increase

[winter stream]

harder to find the obvious meta

[proper ermine]

That's actually kinda crucial they need to add that

[tepid jolt]

I figure that they’ll run out of good modern Doom demons to use after a while and could start dipping into Doom 3 for more. Cartoony toy versions of the Doom 3 nightmare fuel would be pretty interesting

[proper ermine]

Imagine if we could have skins for the demons

[still lily]

they just gotta add alot of 2016 stuff. then adding in some doom 3 and classic levels and such would be nice aswell. it would be cool just to have a global celebration of doom in an offical game

[lament girder]

that's how 2016 and eternal do it lmao.

[still lily]

but its not random there so its okay

[tepid jolt]

I particularly want to see the vagary and cherub. Those are so creepy in 3

[still lily]

like. its possible to not even get an upgrade you were looking for. Ever.

[lament girder]

well 2016 moreso than eternal, but that's just how it is. mods are supposed to enhance a weapon's damage capabilites and you can't ask for much depth out of a mobile game that's bordering on gacha. stat changes are as best as you're gonna get it. same for RNG to 'spice' up the combat.

[winter stream]

le me at max level without rolling a multishot upgrade for gauss

[tepid jolt]

In general cute redesigns of disturbing monsters is a fun aesthetic.

[still lily]

what if they were always cute?

[tepid jolt]

Then you get toy cacos

[halcyon bear]

True although there is a large amount of doom fans not into it if my channel is any indication haha.

[still lily]

doom fans when the game doesn't have photorealsitic testicle bursting gore.

[lament girder]

people will say the classic caco is cute looking (granted, it is) but don't wanna hear it from the newer designs which is funny

the cacodemon in nudoom is much goofier than any past iterations

[tepid jolt]

I think 2016 and Eternal’s cacos are cute too

[halcyon bear]

Custom monster baby cacos are adorable

[halcyon bear]

Eternal more so. Just because of the eyes

[tepid jolt]

The only cacos I don’t find cute are the Doom 3 ones. They just make me sad

[halcyon bear]

The octopus caco

[winter stream]

mobile games aren't restricted to being bad and shallow, they're just all like that because they are for milking money. There's proper games on mobile like Mindustry.

[tepid jolt]

The vibe is very “look how they massacred my boy”

[lament girder]

they look cute in both. the hell knight in 2016 is adorable though

[proper ermine]

Those are fucking horrifying and incredibly weird

[lament girder]

that squishy beluga head of theirs with the hint of a smile

[proper ermine]

The no pupil makes it a bit more terrifying which I kinda like in 2016

[still lily]

2016 hell knight gotta be peak demon design of all time right next to classic caco

[halcyon bear]

I actually love doom 3 so I was pretty happy the first time I saw the 2016 hellknight

[lament girder]

they look like big puppies. i love them

[tepid jolt]

2016 Hell Knight is just Doom 3 Hell Knight in HD

[lament girder]

the doom 3 hell knight was massive. i love his deltoids and how huge his neck muscles were. the 2016 knight is emaciated by comparison and the scale pattern on his skin just makes him look alien

i love how the eternal design gives him a roided up appearance with the veins on his chest area and the fucked up teeth

[halcyon bear]

Oh ya I agree and when the doom 3 hellknight moved. Just felt that terror and mass

[still lily]

eternal hellknight fell off 😭

[halcyon bear]

Hate the eyes tbh

[still lily]

why they give the man eyes

[lament girder]

the doom 3 hell knight had eyes too, lol.

small beady black eyes just above the nose.

[tepid jolt]

Eternal’s HK has eyes?! How have I never noticed

[still lily]

thats cooler tho

[halcyon bear]

Eternals are made to be actual eyes where 3 looked like a organ the thing didn't need anymore like a tailbone

[tepid jolt]

Vestigial organs

[lament girder]

it's such an infinitesimal detail considering their behavior is the exact same in both games. in eternal they're just yellow dots encased in a red skull.

the 2016 hell knight's skull looks so soft and smooth

i want to rub it.

[halcyon bear]

Like there no bone there

[still lily]

idk. i immediately noticed it and it sucked how they killed the whole no eyes thing. just made it generic tbh

[halcyon bear]

Like a beluga whale

[tepid jolt]

My only Doom 3 design besides Caco that just saddens me is the Baron

[lament girder]

the eternal hell knight looks like he would chew me the fuck up, drag me on the streets and eviscerate me in broad daylight if i tried doing the same

[halcyon bear]

You mean the bruiser?

[still lily]

i didnt even recognize it in mighty doom

[tepid jolt]

No I’m saying that there isn’t one

The bruiser is its own (cool) thing

[halcyon bear]

There's birdman?

Mods for it now anyways

[still lily]

belugas are some of the best animals on earth they are so nice

[lament girder]

the hell knight in doom 3 was already pretty generic all things considered. 2016 making it a melee brute didn't help matters

'muscular monster' is about as barebones a design as you can get

[tepid jolt]

The bruiser is the RoE guy with a monitor for a head right?

[still lily]

eyeless muscular reptile monster hits harder tho

[lament girder]

i didn't even notice the 2016 knight didn't have eyes and honestly? looking back you can kinda tell the way it fumbles around

they're also so tiny.

[halcyon bear]

https://imgur.com/a/irx3uPj

I always like these size things

[still lily]

cyberdemon is a twink tbh i could solo it

[halcyon bear]

Well I mean you do

[lament girder]

never understood the 'wahh they gave it eyes' complaints much. the fact it looks so fucking angry in the face and how its body is covered up in purple veins give it a very brutish look compared to the soft silky smooth skin of the original. also it's mostly grey like the d3 knight.

[still lily]

spidermastermind is short bruhhhh

[still lily]

it just made it more unqiue among the cast of demons.

[lament girder]

i don't recall people complaining when they redesigned the imps.

[still lily]

it was a very slight redesign

[winter stream]

oh right, forgot about this. The only full maps I've really made is an rpg that's pretty outdated and was my first map, and a short boss fight map where you are essentially fighting the snake character in those classic snake games with its own AI. Apart from that, I dig into the game's files alot to find new ways for SnapHak to expand the editor, made the logic and mechanics for the bossfight in Into The Mortuary, did a lot of the complex snaphak stuff for Papa Tela's Pizza Terror, and I have some work-in-progress maps like a flight simulator and a survival game where you are stranded on an iceberg with a day/night cycle.

[lament girder]

they literally changed their facial structure and color scheme

[still lily]

just turned up the contrast, added red and some spikes.

[lament girder]

that's not a slight redesign lmao

[halcyon bear]

Got it! Thanks! Always love checking out peoples work

[lament girder]

they gave them fucking eyes

[still lily]

imps always had eyes?

[lament girder]

they didn't have eyes in the 2015 demo.

[halcyon bear]

Personally also really liked the doom 3 imp.

[lament girder]

they looked like lesser hell knights then

[still lily]

well. thats the demo lol

both imps are cool. i dont really perfer either or tbh

[halcyon bear]

They looked alot like prowlers

[winter stream]

got doom moderatored

[lament girder]

i do. i prefer it when the enemy that makes up vast majority of the arena doesn't have eyes

[winter stream]

I love bots restricting free exchange of thoughts

[tepid jolt]

“They gave them fucking eyes” just gave me the mental image of imps making flirty expressions at the Slayer like a scene in a really weird porno

And I can’t help but laugh

[lament girder]

over a less common enemy that just stomps the ground angrily like a puppy

imps being blind is much creepier and them being inline with the knight's design is sensible. the change is only good because it led to the eternal imp which is at least a compromise between old and new, but the 2015 design was congruent with another design. it had cohesion.

[still lily]

why do demons need eyes anyway. why do they need limbs? Why dont they all just become 1 huge biomass and engulf earth and kill everyone

[tepid jolt]

Add shoggoths to the next Doom

[winter stream]

I have a very unfinished demo of the flight simulator available published, the core flight system works, but it's missing the objectives, most of the environment, and much of the audio

[lament girder]

beats me how people didn't complain back then. i guess we didn't have another game to throw crap at and compare it to.

imagine how much worse it would've been if the 2015 imp design had been final and only the eternal design had had eyes. people would've lost their marbles and it'd have been so funny.

'WHY DID THEY CHANGE IT IT'S NO LONGER CREEPY NOOOO'

[tepid jolt]

Actually shoggoths in Doom sounds like a great way to have a new tool to spook Doom veterans

[winter stream]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/832525723699904542/1087803083293200445/8mb.video-FQH-9FtwLts01.mp4

[halcyon bear]

Excellent if you want add me up and dm. Don't mind testing either I already do that for eternal 2016 and classic /64

[winter stream]

sure, though again, not a whole lot to test for now.

[lament girder]

i should reinstall 2016 and finish up my snapmap. i was about 75% done with it last time i played andi never had the patience to wrap it up

[halcyon bear]

Dou it

[winter stream]

The grind to finish a map is the hardest part

kinda like game dev in general

[tepid jolt]

I want to finally try putting together custom Doom 3 maps when my laptop is fixed

[lament girder]

big part of my argument earlier is how you can't get the AI to stay put in one place and snapmap sorta mitigates that with custom geo. but that's mostly due to how the AI navmeshes break when placed on top of a volume and become dormant.

[halcyon bear]

Ohhhh gotcha

[winter stream]

enemies can be forced to stay still more reliably with some logic tricks

such as creating an infinite loop between 2 path points adjacent to eachother

[lament girder]

i love to have enemies serve as sentry turrets with nowhere else for the player to hide behind. something like a bunch of knights or a couple pinkies in close quarters with imps high on top raining fireballs upon you, or monster closets with revenants.

[winter stream]

as turrets? yeah elevating them on geo is how that in particular is done usually

[lament girder]

another thing is 2016 AI doesn't operate like classic Doom does, so the combat scenarios would play far differently even if you put the same pieces together.

it's pretty tragic how weak the revenant is.

[winter stream]

I don't really see a point of a 1:1 remake anyways. Like the mighty doom in snapmap is going to be wayy more of a departure from archero

[lament girder]

he's not much better in eternal, but at least he can hit you due to the rockets having a larger hitbox, faster, straight-pattern and just being more numerous

i wish there was a way to buff AI in 2016 to spice it up a bit.

[winter stream]

depends on what kind of buffs you have in mind

[lament girder]

i'd love a rev with homing missiles that actually seeks out to cross gaps to jab the player in the face.

[halcyon bear]

I see what you're saying now. With classic a design for a arena the creators enemy placement can create the desired scenario or fight the map creator intended. With 2016s ai they would just run rampant scattered and could be delt with in a way that would ruin a solid encounter

[winter stream]

though with modding, there's quite a lot you can do

[lament girder]

that was exactly my point then, yeah. I was rushing to take a shower so I didn't make myself very clear and gave way to misinterpretations. my bad.

[winter stream]

I find the revenants lunge pretty far with the melee, but maybe that's just snapmap

[halcyon bear]

My bad also. This makes perfect sense

[winter stream]

it's just yeah they don't really cross gaps to do so

[lament girder]

yeah, like I get for arena design purposes it's fine, but for snapmaps that don't follow the same combat structure, it's very difficult to make the AI deadly on close quarters.

especially with the way weapons are balanced. classic doom is much more strict in that regard but 2016/eternal give you plenty of room and tools to outmaneuver anything, so while a room with 1 baron, 2 shotgunners up in a ledge and 2 revenants will be annoying in the original, in nudoom there's like 10 or so different ways to go over that same encounter and walk away unscathed.

[winter stream]

the weapon balance in snapmap differs alot from campaign anyways

one thing that's pretty cool at least is being able to have 24 demons fighting you at once thanks to snaphak

[lament girder]

the original active AI count maxed out at 12 iirc?

[winter stream]

yeah

[lament girder]

that appears to be hardcoded into idtech 6 and 7

[winter stream]

even campaign caps at like 15 or 18. 24 seems to be the hard engine limit unless one of us finds wherever that limit is being imposed, and it can be manipulated

[winter stream]

12 is arbitrarily imposed by the encounter system

[lament girder]

24 I mean

[winter stream]

oh

[lament girder]

24 appears to be the active AI count limit

me and some folks tried looking into it while working on researching md6 for eternal. no dice

[winter stream]

24 is honestly plenty for anything that isn't a nuts.wad style shitpost

[lament girder]

but what if i wanted to make a nuts.wad style shitpost

i just wanna have active AI hunt down the player across large maps. give the AI a reason to run around outside of the arenas to catch them off guard.

imagine something like the foundry scene in the cinematic trailer literally crawiling with zombies

[winter stream]

could have animweb entities fill out the background and then replace them with real demons in combat proximity

[lament girder]

entity culling

[tepid jolt]

I want to try doing a Doom 3 map in the vein of something like Scythe’s “Fear” where demons are coming out of the walls and from vents and you have to fight a whole army at once. I figure that’s doable with modern PCs given Doom 3 is almost 20 years old. You would definitely need to tweak the weapons and maybe the player’s movement speed to make that fair though

[lament girder]

i tried many classic inspired doom 3 mods and never found them any fun tbh. doom 3 is way too different in things like feedback and sound to be anything but shoddy

on the other hand it's fun to see actual infighting in a 3d engine that isn't quake

[tepid jolt]

I like the base game so that isn’t an issue for me. I just feel it was never pushed to its full potential

[winter stream]

that's how I feel about snapmap

[lament girder]

well it took modders 6 years to figure out how to mod snapmap after researching eternal

doom 3's been around for far longer than that and the modding scene's been dormant for a hot minute.

[tepid jolt]

I don’t see the problem with that. Also it’s not like mods aren’t made at all, just not on the same scale

[winter stream]

I'm not sure if it was thanks to eternal that snaphak exists.

[lament girder]

what else has been there that's of note discounting phobos?

[tepid jolt]

IDK but that’s more than zero

[lament girder]

well model importing was figured out after eternal's md6 was cracked.

[winter stream]

That's not snaphak

[lament girder]

i didn't mention snaphak specifically, just modding in general.

[tepid jolt]

Also if I do such a mod it would primarily be for myself to channel my imagination. If no one plays it, it would still be worth making imo

[winter stream]

and wym the md6 has been cracked? Is there a way to create and import md6 in eternal now?

[lament girder]

it's been a thing for at least a year+ now lol

i'll have to dig up some examples, but it's mostly static models.

[winter stream]

oh

[lament girder]

i play eternal with the bullet and plasma ammo pickups from 2016 because i find them better looking. basically reverse engineered.

[winter stream]

bmodels

[lament girder]

yeah, basic stuff and we never did figure out animdefs :C

[winter stream]

md6 are a different type of model from static bmodels

[lament girder]

we can replace parts of enemies with static models so that was a part of it iirc. been a while since i looked into it.

[winter stream]

Cause yeah i know about that stuff

[lament girder]

i've kinda fell off modding in general. i mostly just draw now lol.

[winter stream]

afaik all that is done for adding static parts to enemies is thanks to fxdecls

snapHak does something a bit different; entities have the ability to be binded to other entities, and even to specific joints of entities with md6 models

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/730452290896527450/1062974381426487346/Doom_2023.01.11_-_22.00.06.03.DVR.mp4

[lament girder]

aside from joints, wasn't it already possible to attach FX to entities?

[winter stream]

yes, but, the reason that's not how models are attached with snaphak is because it involves modifying decls, files outside of the map file that gets uploaded when you publish. Snaphak maps function fully without mods.

[still lily]

snapmap + mods

unstoppable. all we need is navmesh and bmd6.

then we can make whole ass campaign quality maps

eeeeee. I really hope either an ex id-dev or some code wizard swoops in and gets it going. Im trying my best with my limited knowledge

[still lily]

also yeah snaphak maps being playable on console is insane

just brings up the question.. why didnt they just all dis stuff? All it needed was UI to work in-game. 🤔

[lament girder]

because every new patch has to go through a million hoops just to get the all-good from zenimax and bethesda and they didn't have the time, energy nor resources to give a shit about snapmap after certain affinity left. maybe if they hadn't focused on the crappy multiplayer only 10 people played across the only 2 live gamemodes there were.

i remember jumping on classic snapmap DM maps in my own time with folks and having a much better time than we did playing the halo-like online ripe with sound balancing issues. it pissed me off not being able to hear enemies right behind me or the vortex rifle + SSG/CSG + SSG combos being so busted, or the demon rune and special gun drops being literally 'here's some free kills for you'

[winter stream]

Shame that there was no ability to create multiplayer lobbies in snapmap larger than 4 players

[still lily]

MP is moddable aswell 🤔

maybe we could make it better

Modded private match lobbies would go insane

full rebalancing, demons less OP/removed (which i think you could do anyway? nerf healt/turn off runes?) The MP was just casual fun.

and by god. the taunts are glorious. i need more

if i took it seriously, i hate random bullet spread. Demons were pretty dumb op. Weapons are much better than others. The bots however are actually pretty damn intelligent all things considered. John Dean is a chad.

pretty sure you can add ai to MP maps aswell

12 player horde mode lmfao

[elder meadow]

I am new to snapmap, may I know what is snapHak

[sweet shale]

Does anyone still play doom 2016 multiplayer?

[halcyon bear]

Ya you definitely can find solid matches time to time. Just expect it to be nice and sweaty

[cold root]

being glory killed by demons is one of the most notable things in this game that was removed in DE

that one where the Posessed eats chunks of your flesh is unsettling

[halcyon bear]

How they hell did a possessed kill ya. Jk true really miss it

[cold root]

I imagine that if a Marauder was able to glory kill you, he will cut all of your limbs one by one with his axe then shoot you in the face with his super shotgun

[proper ermine]

Man it wouldve been so fucking cool with the archville and new enemies

[elder meadow]

Its like the Revenant glory kill from 2016

he takes off your limbs, beats you with it and then punches your face

But my favorite glory kill is the Baron
He rips half of your body

[still lily]

uhh. snapmap. id say thats the biggest.

[winter stream]

It's a tool that basically lets you edit the save file of a snapmap more directly without the limitations imposed by the in-game UI. Instead of being limited to what the UI lets you do, you're only limited by what the game's engine lets you do.

This includes being able to spawn movers, modify demon AI, scale and retexture props, thousands of new props, fx and textures, thanks to assets in the game’s files, among many other things.

[elder meadow]

I see, so that is how you were able to change the baron skin

[winter stream]

Sorta. That Baron actually has a bunch of custom props attached to him

[latent jewel]

you can create additional small rooms and make walls connected to the main map have noclip property until you come close to them.spawn monsters inside those rooms and use invisible cube as target to make those noclip walls become solid. seems doable

[tepid jolt]

I don’t mean like that. I mean like high elevation monster closets to introduce a cloud of flying demons. Fear is an early slaughter map

[latent jewel]

for which game is this Scythe's Fear map? D16?

[latent jewel]

Interesting ideas. but let's be real, most people or consumers would likely prefer to play the campaign with these modified entities, rather than trying them on singular maps. I mean I suspect that many of these ideas will just remain unseen by the vast majority especially bc they will not be implemented in the main game

[winter stream]

Which is sad because it's new levels vs the same ones but with some changes

But my entire pursuit with doom 2016 is to get snapmap the credit it deserves, and I'm not giving up on that anytime soon

[latent jewel]

this is why I'd want a combination of the two -to modify the campaign maps having multiple exit points, to different maps. but I am not sure if this would permit the game to load snapmap assets, since two seem separate entities. maybe if someone would succesfully merge snapmap to the main resource file

what I also observed over the years is that ppl tend to feel nostalgic pretty soon about the singleplayer maps they know or MP as well. they show enthusiasm when they hear about the same maps but modified bigtime -like dm6 renake from quake 3 in quake champions -to the point that to some certain maps became synonymous with certain games

[winter stream]

I just don't care to work with pre-made levels whatsoever, only brand new content

[latent jewel]

I think ie that a big success would be to create a doom2 sp maps pak revamped to modern standards for d16 -not the brute d1/2 "classic maps" which look like cute but not really... serious. unfortunately the redesign of any of these maps would require dedicated teams -as a single person it could take months to remake just one, I mean it took me more than 6 months to make doom2 dm1 for Doom3 on my own. I seen other remakes but all were made faster and as such poorly designed

[idle aspen]

bro i just got 2016 and my game is go buggie

[snow heron]

What are you playing on? Your machine might not meet the system requirements

If your on PC anyway

[idle aspen]

i play on a ryzen 3 and amd radeon graphics

[snow heron]

Here are the System Requirements:

MINIMUM:
OS: Windows 7/8.1/10 (64-bit versions)
Processor: Intel Core i5-2400/AMD FX-8320 or better
Memory: 8 GB RAM
Graphics: NVIDIA GTX 670 2GB/AMD Radeon HD 7870 2GB or better
Storage: 55 GB available space
Additional Notes: Requires Steam activation and broadband internet connection for Multiplayer and SnapMap

RECOMMENDED:
OS: Windows 7/8.1/10 (64-bit versions)
Processor: Intel Core i7-3770/AMD FX-8350 or better
Memory: 8 GB RAM
Graphics: NVIDIA GTX 970 4GB/AMD Radeon R9 290 4GB or better
Storage: 55 GB available space
Additional Notes: Requires Steam activation and broadband internet connection for Multiplayer and SnapMap

[idle aspen]

ok

[still lily]

cringe. the first modded map will be Take Flight. but super fleshed out

E1M1 modern remake is almost too easy

i just like making original content

[latent jewel]

remake should be nothing sort of immitation, the key to everything which was already good is improving things to perfection. ie if you know the most known doom2 dm map, first, the courtyard where you pick up the shotgun I made it a valley on the surface of Mars, and you would have to use the airlock to enter/exit there, not a simple triggable door

to each its own, but it would help you better to make more ppl curious abt snapmap, if this is your goal. building various maps from your imagination whatever good they might be they will not appeal to nostalgia so the demographics is lower -rather than you know...

[latent jewel]

radeon graphics is too vague

cand be better or worst graphics card

[sharp blaze]

Just curious, how many people here have memorized all seven doom testaments

[halcyon bear]

It's my morning alarm

[sharp blaze]

How many have you memorized though

[lament girder]

just clipped out of the map in lazarus after glorykilling the cyberdemon

on the 2nd glory kill

losing my UN run.

AMA

[untold stirrup]

oof...

[halcyon bear]

One of the worst fucking glitches. I've done the same through the floor

I believe it was titans realm

[lament girder]

i'm going to be honest i'm this close to uninstalling again

i'm not just going to go through all of that just to have the game fuck up on me

[hushed vault]

2016 is just so damn rough around the edges

I really want like a remaster or something that completely overhauls it

[halcyon bear]

I feel ya. If you're not having a good time fuck it. Just take a break play something else

[hushed vault]

but still stays true to the vision and stuff

[lament girder]

a second, third, fourth or fifth time again. it's just not worth my ass

I almost had double trouble mastered too

[halcyon bear]

I've been where you've been vent away. A un run to die that way is pure ass

6.66 shouldn't have been the last patch

[lament girder]

i've already huffed and puffed all the frustration out. it's out of my system but i'm still angry i forgot to run the modloader to at the very fucking least have noclip available

[hushed vault]

like my idea of a remaster doesn't just fix the sound mixing and backports certain QOL features from Eternal, it just completely overhauls the weapon and enemy balancing too

[lament girder]

a 2016 remake would be killer

[halcyon bear]

Hell ya

[hushed vault]

and I hate to say this but they'd probably rewrite the codexes and stuff to reflect what Eternal established too

[halcyon bear]

Oh absolutely

[lament girder]

or an eternal mod that ports over the 2016 maps with full functionality

[hushed vault]

sorta like how the PAL release of Metroid Prime 1 rewrote all the scans to fit with the lore Nintendo established in Fusion

[lament girder]

either would be fine by me

[hushed vault]

my remaster idea wouldn't implement major gameplay changes like dashing tho

I feel like that would break the maps

[lament girder]

i'm not confident in playing 2016 in its current state. there's so many things that can go wrong from random explosions killing me, imps sniping me out of the air or GKing off the map geo

[halcyon bear]

It would you can already melt by foundry. Dash wouldn't work

[lament girder]

i'll give it a rest for now

[hushed vault]

honestly part of me wants to axe the rune challenges because I found those annoying but I feel like that might break things too

also some of the weapons just didn't feel solid at all, probably because of the sound mixing

the SSG just felt all "soft" in every way

the way the viewmodel was positioned felt weird, and again it didn't feel punchy enough to me

[sharp blaze]

Same, I was kinda disappointed about the ssg at first

Then I used the ssg gauss combo for the rest of the game

[hushed vault]

honestly I'd probably backport the way Eternal handles falling off the map too

[winter stream]

legacyMod to enable dev commands is just a dll file that doesn't require modloader

[hushed vault]

god some of those jumps in 2016 were precarious

and I'd definitely add destructible demons and ray tracing, altho for the former it'd just be visually

honestly even then the balancing in 2016 probably isn't as wack as Mighty lmao

[tardy hawk]

Ultra Nightmare attempt

[sharp blaze]

Is it for the stream?

The link I mean

[tardy hawk]

Yeah

It's on Twitch

[sharp blaze]

Post it in the stream chat

[tardy hawk]

Gotcha

[hushed vault]

some masteries and runes would have to be cut entirely for balancing reasons

[tardy hawk]

www.twitch.tv, then /hotfuzzpooley

[winter stream]

I wouldn't mind a revisit of doom 2016 if for no other reason than a potential snapmap update.

[sharp blaze]

I meant in the Livestream chat of this server

[hushed vault]

also like maybe find a way to skip the Half-Life-esque exposition sequence in Hayden's office?

or maybe reduce it to an actual cutscene like Eternal's cutscenes

[sharp blaze]

You have just listed everything that I think doom 2016 should change

[hushed vault]

also rework the classic maps to look good lmao

[sharp blaze]

Yeah

The pistol made all of the classic maps feel more unbalanced

[hushed vault]

maybe add skins for the campaign? altho they wouldn't be much use since there wouldn't be any cutscenes like Eternal had

[cold root]

maybe an option for reskinning enemies to their Eternal counterparts

[hushed vault]

ooh, that'd be neat too

if they can somehow make it work with destructible demons

[lament girder]

by that i mean get it from nexus. i didn't have it on at all

[sharp blaze]

YES

[cold root]

I like the Eternal Soldiers and Zombies more than the Possessed

[hushed vault]

haha, maybe even give the Imp the E3 2015 design as a skin

[cold root]

if the Hell Razer was in Eternal, would he have got a design change?

[sharp blaze]

What if you just added eternal's demons to the campain

[lament girder]

it was a vanilla run with no additives or shit like that. it hurts to know i lost a perfectly good run that could've been otherwise salvageable were it not for the same shit bug i've been consistently facing everytime I play this game on a high level.

[cold root]

Marauders and Doom Hunters in 2016 💀

[hushed vault]

what if new single player content was added too since it'd be a remaster

[sharp blaze]

I was thinking whiplash and tyrants but yeah

[sharp blaze]

That would be good

[lament girder]

it is pretty funny how the first thing the game says to the player is 'fuck the plot lmao' then on the very next level it proceeds to lock you in a room to force you to listen to the plot for a grand total of 5 minutes without any input from the player

[hushed vault]

god all the MP-only content didn't deserve to be stuck in 2016 like that

[lament girder]

this happens 4 times throughout the game to my memory

[sharp blaze]

Yeah it's anoying

[hushed vault]

like again, make them skippable like Eternal's cutscenes

hell, make them third-person cutscenes like Eternal too if campaign skins are a thing

[cold root]

2016 Demons look gross and horrifying, while Eternal demons look more cartoonish and resemble their classic versions

[hushed vault]

the Summoner literally was supposed to be the Arch-Vile at one point

[sharp blaze]

Yeah

[lament girder]

ehh. discounting the soldier and i guess the revenant i don't think any of the 2016 demons looked 'horrifying'

[hushed vault]

they changed the name and kept the design when they started vaguely shifting to classic-inspired visually later in development

[lament girder]

doom 3 and doom 64 both give 2016 a run for its money as far as creature design is concerned

[cold root]

not even the Possessed?

[sharp blaze]

I personally have mixed feelings about the summoner replacing the archvile

[lament girder]

those too yeah

[hushed vault]

I think a blue Praetor Suit skin like QuakeCon 2014 and the concept art would be neat

[lament girder]

i mean eternal outright reuses like 75% of the roster from 2016 with minor texture changes

[hushed vault]

complete with the F-90 thing on the helmet

[lament girder]

i never understood where the '2016 is more horrifying' thing came from considering both games have their fair share of body horror and mutilation in them

[hushed vault]

I wish they dipped into surreal shit like some of classic Doom's graphics

I want to see what the modern equivalent of FIREBLU looks like

[cold root]

compare the Mancubi in 2016 and Eternal

[lament girder]

the eternal mancubus is more gross

it's a biblically accurate design

you get the elephant feet with the human-like body and face except horribly malformed

human + animal is a common trope for lucifer's creatures

[sharp blaze]

I think it has to do with the atmosphere

[lament girder]

mockery of god's creations

[cold root]

the Doom 3 Mancubus resembles the original one more than 2016 Mancubus does

[lament girder]

the 2016 manc just looks like an alien

i joked around it looking like it belonged in ben 10 alien force once

[cold root]

lmao

[hushed vault]

hell, add weapon skins too

[lament girder]

the cybermanc in 2016 is better than the one in eternal though

even if the VR headset with the grr angry eyes is goofy as shit

[sharp blaze]

Eh I'ma have to disagree with you on that

[cold root]

out of all the new 2016 enemies that were absent in Eternal, they made the Summoner return, but not the Hell Razer

[lament girder]

it didn't need to make a return with the mechazombie in its place

i don't remember the razers doing much in 2016 tbh

[hushed vault]

anyway yeah bonus SP campaign that makes use of some of the MP content

[lament girder]

don't recall dying to them ever

[cold root]

they mostly run around, occasionaly firing at you

[halcyon bear]

They're just there to "promote" movement

[winter stream]

if they were that dangerous, it would be pretty bs because of them being hitscan

[halcyon bear]

Redundant

[sharp blaze]

Yeah, the hell raizers kind of stayed in the backround

[lament girder]

yeah pretty useless in practice esp considering they'll sometimes just slice around with the laser instead of focusing it

like you'll be running around then see the beam cut through at random

[sharp blaze]

There good to promote infighting though

[lament girder]

i don't think they're meant to do that

[sharp blaze]

Ik but still

[lament girder]

?

[sharp blaze]

They attack other demons

[lament girder]

i have gotten revenants to infight with hk's plenty times before

[winter stream]

The slice attack does a lot more damage per tick because it is only meant to hit for one tick or so, unlike the focused shot

[lament girder]

wished they'd follow you around with it instead of sticking to one direction

[sharp blaze]

Same

[halcyon bear]

Indication for a split second of area of effect would force movement and make the encounters more intense. Would also help you to not turn your brain off

[cold root]

even though they are the same enemies gameplay-wise, are the Zombies and Possessed technicially different enemies lore-wise?

[sharp blaze]

What are your opinions about eternal changing the cyberdemon's name to tyrant

[halcyon bear]

I actually like the lore that they are different species. Usually not into retro active things but I like the balgaar

[winter stream]

I more dislike their appearance than I care about the name

[sharp blaze]

I think they're the same

[cold root]

it's literally the Classic Cyberdemon but HD

[lament girder]

I think it's pretty shitty that they didn't keep the naming convention but I get why they wouldn't want to have two wildly different enemies called the same name.

[sharp blaze]

Exactly

[winter stream]

yeah and I don't like classic doom's artstyle

[lament girder]

sorta, not quite

[hushed vault]

does it like retroactively make the classic and 64 Cyberdemons Tyrants then

[lament girder]

classic Doom cyberdemons were ripped as hell and very... um, endowed

[halcyon bear]

Yup

Cyberbooty in classic is no joke

[lament girder]

the one in eternal looks like a ham shank with the cybie's face grafted on top

[halcyon bear]

https://imgur.com/a/AyhY8Qj

I ordered this for the doom room super hyped

[lament girder]

still beats the baalgar's design anyday imho. usually when people call eternal's designs 'too cartoony' I look at that and think to myself 'does that not look like Trigon from Teen Titans?'

[sharp blaze]

Doom room?

[lament girder]

except fatter and wearing poop armor?

[cold root]

bruh

[halcyon bear]

Ya I have a large doom collection. Have a room dedicated to it

[hushed vault]

my favorite Cyberdemon design is the 3 one

[sharp blaze]

Damn

[lament girder]

like, the wide jaw is super off-putting. It's also like, 95% demon, 5% cyber.

[winter stream]

I'm just more into sci-fi, so I wasn't a fan of when they went back to a more biblical design with some of the demons

[halcyon bear]

Doom 2016 blue skull key https://imgur.com/gallery/4vkMU1p

Here's something recent from 2016

[sharp blaze]

Love it

[winter stream]

Eventually, I want to get a 3d printer to make figures of different assets extracted from the game

[lament girder]

that's respectable. I just think they missed the mark with some of the designs in both games. I don't feel the Dread Knight, fire baron or the revenant in eternal at all, and conversely the pinky, baalgar, mancubus and the spider mastermind in 2016 look too goofy for me to take seriously.

[sharp blaze]

I really want to see how that turns out

[hushed vault]

like I said, I think they suddenly tried to make 2016 resemble classic a bit more later in development

[halcyon bear]

https://imgur.com/ZaAfy8d

[halcyon bear]

Oh hell ya that would be epic

[sharp blaze]

Hell yeah

[sharp blaze]

Colored?

[winter stream]

some of the guns look pretty slick in stl format, which is what 3d printers can use
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/744400593690296609/1067526682870820985/image.png

[sharp blaze]

I want that

[lament girder]

yeah I mentioned this yesterday but I found it odd that people didn't voice out any concerns when they changed the old eyeless imp design from the 2015 demo to the newer 2016 one, but the hell knight suddenly having eyes in eternal is a problem.

[halcyon bear]

https://imgur.com/4nDItBX

[winter stream]

ofc I will need to figure out the best practice for adding supports for the printing process

[hushed vault]

a lot of people were pissed at everything being so yellow in the E3 2015 build lmao

[halcyon bear]

Last one. I post most of my stuff in merch room

[lament girder]

I'm probably one of the very few people that preferred the lack of color in the demo then. the colored lighting, the fog, the thunder, that hell demo looked super intimidating and creepy

[hushed vault]

and honestly I think the Slayer lore was part of this too

[lament girder]

meanwhile the final game just feels like an arcade game level where you punch your way through stuff.

[sharp blaze]

It's still fun though

[hushed vault]

there was already a plot before that point, but my guess is that they wanted to just make a fun nod to the community then

[lament girder]

when people talk about 2016's atmosphere i'm like 'you mean the one the game had at some point, that they completely got rid of'

[hushed vault]

the whole F-90 thing is a testament to how late the final plot was done up

[lament girder]

i love that 2015 demo. the audio mixing was off but the way the shotgun was BOOMING in the speakers with that bass gain was making me cream. the final game's shotgun just sounds like a wet clang in comparison.

[hushed vault]

and again, holes like the Praetor Suit looking so man-made despite apparently having been forged by a demon

[halcyon bear]

It was forged by the slayer and the betrayer. Betrayer made the suit with the slayer to his specifications

[lament girder]

^

i knew there was something up with them saying it was hell-made in 2016. that shit's almost UAC design

it made no sense

[hushed vault]

and as I mentioned before it was originally blue

Hugo Martin mentioned something about referencing RoboCop in the noclip documentary, I think at one point the player character was a RoboCop-esque cyborg

[halcyon bear]

I really like robo cops colors.

[hushed vault]

the prototype footage they showed at QuakeCon 2016 had this nerdy JC/Intern-esque mission control guy named "Spencer" speaking to the player

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sxd7JVibP_s

at 8:05 or so

some of the assets in 2016 happen to be really old like the combat shotgun

modeled in 2012 at the very least

[sharp blaze]

Rly?

[hushed vault]

and the SSG was in Doom 4 1.0

like almost the exact SSG model

[lament girder]

yup. the shotgun has kenneth scott's design written all over it

[hushed vault]

kinda wish they kept that early combat shotgun animation where it had classic-style pumping but I guess they thought it'd obscure the view too much

at least it still does that with the centered viewmodels enabled

[sharp blaze]

I love throwbacks like that in games

[lament girder]

more fps games should have the option for centered pose weapons

less obstructive

[sharp blaze]

Yeah

It also helps a LOT if you are playing with no HUD or crosshairs

[winter stream]

I feel it obstructs more, not in terms of raw area of the screen but in terms of more important places I want to be able to see.

[sharp blaze]

Also true

[winter stream]

especially if I'm using anything with projectile drop like explosive shot

[lament girder]

i mean, you can get a basic feel of the nade arc after your first shot.

problem is the way it was done in 2016 (not so much eternal) is the viewmodels are enormous

[winter stream]

I'd still like to see what I'm aiming at

[lament girder]

?
if it's a placebo thing i get it but there's nothing keeping you from placing a reticle on the enemy then hitting M1

again if it's a viewmodel issue that's understandable because the placement on the 2016 weapons is terrible but that can change. it's not a dealbreaker.

[winter stream]

With a weapon that has projectile drop I mean

[lament girder]

what I do pick issue with is how distracting the shotgun reload animation is. it zooms by so quickly it feels weighless.

[sharp blaze]

Still better than doom 64 reloads