classic-doom

[azure nimbus]

all hitscan attacks from enemies are identical: shotgunners and spiderdemons shoot triplets of those attacks. Chaingunngers and spiderdemons also shoot continuously. Each pellet has the same angle range and damage

[split bolt]

hello doomers

I find the shot gun much better for sniping

[vast reef]

the rocket launcher can work if they're slow

[wet elm]

okay i guess wasnt expecting that

[split bolt]

For a bunch of enemies far aways and crammed together

[vast reef]

yes

[split bolt]

Especially for imps and zombies shotgunners and chaingunners

[finite crag]

And then try tnt evolution

Do I just have to continue practicing e1m3 until I get good at it then

[royal heron]

practice does make perfect

but make sure you're doing good strats

[finite crag]

Yes

[dapper flint]

Just like anything else. Work at it until you own it

[hexed escarp]

is it just me or is inferno music the best music of doom 1

[finite crag]

You are exactly right.

[halcyon willow]

Knee deep in the dead hands down for me

[tacit remnant]

I usually play video games with the sound off so I don’t remember much of the music

[azure nimbus]

do lost souls bounce in final doom/CL4 like in CL3 or do they not as in CL2?

[lilac jungle]

Hi

[vital knoll]

Giving 2002 A Doom Odyssey 10 year anniversary a shot almost ten years after the fact. Anyone ever try?

[azure nimbus]

got e2 and e3 complete NM100s pistol start. I boot up e1m3 and get shallacked. Only 2 levels really gave me trouble in e2 and e3(e2m6, e3m5). This is insane though. I found e2m7 kinda rough but only because I didn't know about the bulk cell by the blue key lmao

[onyx compass]

is ghost monstor common keeps happening on doom 2 without the dos mode one. I mosly just watch the monster fight in the last lvl of hell of earth with the spawner

i don't know if its archive making the monster back alive happen the other day a imp i could not kill

[vast reef]

i wish sunlust had story

[slim willow]

I don't. The text screens are hilarious.

[vast reef]

honestly yeah they are

sadly i'm a lore nerd

[royal heron]

Yeah e1m3 is tough...

I recommend getting the secrets as they'll help alot, especially the chaingun

[onyx compass]

https://youtu.be/-IYfwCWZeD0 has anyone had this happen to in doom 2

[vast reef]

yes
it was quite funny

[azure nimbus]

is there a big reason peter lawrence went for the key before heading to the soulsphere/chaingun area?

[royal heron]

not entirely sure, but maye he didn't want to deal with the respawned enemies that you get when you grab the chaingun and soulsphere first?

probably wanted to streamline the process a little bit

it is more risky but it's most probably faster in the end

you also get the rocket launcher which does help in the toxic O room... unless peter just runs past everything and hopes for the best?

[azure nimbus]

peter kills most everything in the toxic room. I suspect it's to avoid opening the shotgunners up from the hallway to inch into the room we're crossing a bunch. There was a level or two in e2 and e3 where his routing was kinda whack. But that's cuz he's really good so didn't have to bother routing for easier levels. For an insane map like this, I would have more faith in his route.

[royal heron]

I see

there are some risks with his method but it will net you a faster time

[azure nimbus]

using some saves to feel it out, I think I'll grab the chaingun first. It's a harder section frontloaded at the beginning (better for attempts/time) and gives me a reaaaaally strong kit for the rest of the level

[past field]

TeaMan

[vast reef]

BeverageMale

[azure nimbus]

Got it just now on strim with chaingun first. It was great to get the RL and cg early

[past field]

DrinkHuman

[royal heron]

Yeah that's a strat most people use, confused and I did for our own e1m3 runs

[finite crag]

bethesda should add new wads on the console versions

last one was earthless prelude and its been almost a year ago

[azure nimbus]

e1m9 was even worse. that was maybe an hour of attempts to get it compared to maybe 5 min to beat e1m4

[royal heron]

oh yeah that one... it's just as bad an e1m3

[prime lava]

peter lawrences route is worse for consistency and slower for e1m3 nms

dont use it

[azure nimbus]

Made my way up to e1m7. What do you think are some good ideas for that? I find myself running out of health after I get the blue key. -- nvm I found a megaarmor

[silk swift]

https://twitter.com/RealJezebelley/status/1506966233161383937

Jeze3D.exe v3.0.3 💾 (@RealJezebelley)

Doomguy faces that didn't make the final cut.

Likes

81729

Retweets

8303

Twitter · Mar 24, 2022, 12:08 PM

[royal heron]

Cursed af

[eternal lance]

the true berserk face

[royal heron]

But #1 and #3 would make good emojis

Doomguy troll and existential crisis

[eternal lance]

agreed

[royal heron]

Maybe #6 is well? Idk

Big brain mayhaps?

[full tiger]

does embers of armageddon count as classic doom? since its a mod and im sorta new to this

[pearl osprey]

Yes

[limpid zinc]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/770838419382337567/957024330527690812/troll_guy.png

[azure nimbus]

I'm catching up. e4m1 NM 100s and e4m2

[dapper flint]

Nightmare made me a better player, even though I don't like it

[azure nimbus]

Only e4m6 remains (then sigil). e4m6 is absurd. Partially because I haven't played it as much as the other hard levels(e1m3 and e2m6) but I'm having to learn the triggers and jumps. it's rough

[prime lava]

Sorry, was asleep; you could watch an old NM100s record on the DSDA, I don't know too much about ultimate doom NMS apart from the "infamous" maps. I specialize in plutonia :p

E4M2 is pretty easy, but E4M1 is a bit of a pain. E4M6 you should use probably Peter Lawrence's route if you want to rush the ending or Ryback's route if you want to play it slower.

[azure nimbus]

oh dw, I got em all from ult-doom except for e4m6 now

[prime lava]

Nice, good luck with e4m6

what do you plan to do afterwards?

[azure nimbus]

sigil, but maybe doom2 first. mostly, I'm worried about the ridiculous secret hunts of doom2 and map 3 of sigil

[prime lava]

I see

[azure nimbus]

i would probably skip the broken secrets in 15 and 27

[prime lava]

whats wrong with the 27 secret again?

[azure nimbus]

I think it's on the teleporter but you get TPed away beforehand. You can do an insanely precise move or RL jump the hallway. I'll check the wiki to make sure "Secret #6 cannot normally be reached in order to be triggered due to being behind a teleport linedef, making it ordinarily impossible to get 100% secrets without cheating. However, via use of wallrunning, it is possible to trigger a linedef skip to obtain the secret. This is not presently required for 100% completion under Compet-N rules." -- doomwiki. Peter used an RL jump to skip the linedef

[prime lava]

oh so nothing new :p

[azure nimbus]

I might go for that one if only cuz 27 is easy otherwise and that weird secret is at the start. but map15...that's a monster already

[pearl osprey]

const bool iscool = true

Doom and most of it's source ports use c/c++

Ultimate Doom Builder uses C# if you want to learn some C# you can mess with it's code

Not really, c is a functional programming language instead of OOP, c++ gives much lower level control and doesn't have a garbage collector, if you want to develop for doom you're gonna have to learn a new language

[vast reef]

c# is fun

where it gets interesting is brainfuck

great programming language

[molten iron]

🤣

Its not

[pearl osprey]

To be fair the naming on Microsoft's end is very deceiving

When I first started programming I thought c, c++ and c# are all the same language 🤦‍♂️

[molten iron]

Also, most source ports use plain c, not c++
I thing gzdoom uses c++ tho

[vast reef]

c++ isn't that similar to c#

if i didn't know better i'd think they were completely unrelated languages

fast-paced vanilla wads to play?

[azure nimbus]

thanks for recommending Ryback's route. managed to get it with that

[ember orbit]

will gzdoom still count towards my DOOM II steam hours?

[pearl osprey]

no

[royal heron]

no

[ember orbit]

oh well

anyways this is my first time modding doom so if anyone has any WADs to suggest, please do

[vast reef]

icaruslives

make sure to check out icaruslives (he's a yt channel)

but one mod i will always recommend is high noon drifter

[prime lava]

GG :^)

[ember orbit]

Alright, will do

[finite crag]

Have you played Plutonia? If so, Plutonia 2 is a blast.

[vivid vine]

There was also a Plutonia Revisited Community Project though I can't say how good it is. I heard a Plutonia 3 was in the works. There is a wad called Plutonia 3 but it definitely is not and is absolutely terrible

[finite crag]

A real Plutonia 3... holy shit...

I'm at MAP21 of Plutonia 2 and adoring it so far.

[vivid vine]

Plutonia Revisited's MAP32 is called 'Have @ It'

I'm waiting for one called 'Just Do It'

[ember orbit]

No actually didnt play any of the official add ons yet, but i started evilution rn. Also, will do!

[finite crag]

Yeah Plutonia is awesome! Have fun with it man.

[pine tartan]

ik im not the only one who remebers DWANGO (i was born in 2003) and i remember playing dwango online though Odamex

[granite basin]

https://youtu.be/E-XQZ16Tx7A

[ember orbit]

my evilution experience so far: went through the entire map 3 only to get killed by the revenants homing rocket at the exit

[eternal lance]

https://youtu.be/mA4uV7VKqY0

[past field]

Just wait till you play plutonia experiment

[ember orbit]

this is by far the hardest thing i've had to play. cant imagine what plutonia must be like

One thing for sure its really fun to play but its really tiring at the same time

[tacit remnant]

The big nice thing about Plutonia is that its levels are each fairly short so you don’t have to maintain the tension for long

[finite crag]

Evilution is boring as fuck yeah.

Plutonia's difficulty is way more than Evilution but levels are short and sweet.

[azure nimbus]

and actually good

[arctic bay]

[cloud talon]

Arch-viles, revenants, and chaingunners everywhere

[ember orbit]

god i hate chaingunners

[royal heron]

Chaingunners succ

[amber pelican]

Question: Is it POSSIBLE(keyword: POSSIBLE)to 100% every Level in Ultimate Doom + Sigil, Doom II: Hell In Earth + Master Levels for Doom II + No Rests for the Living, Final Doom: TNT Eviloution and Final Doom: The Plutonia Experiment, Without taking ANY Damage?

[azure nimbus]

maybe with ridiculous rng manip? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIsnF5CrJpI there are reality runs for a bunch of levels. you might need to take a hit from damaging floors though.

[amber pelican]

I know I did a 100% No Damage Run of E1M1, but good grief did that take me hours and hours to achieve.

[ember orbit]

jesus chaingunners just dont give me a break, like what am i supposed to do when they are all over the arena and i cannot take cover

[amber pelican]

I also in that same run tried to complete the level as quickly as possible, i think the record was 2 minutes.

[tacit remnant]

What I do is step into the arena, kill one chaingunner, then leave the arena again, rinse and repeat

[azure nimbus]

what I did was play doom1's NM first cuz chaingunners too scary

[tacit remnant]

I’m uninterested in playing NM

[azure nimbus]

good idea

[ember orbit]

god why does evilution like to spam chaingunners so much

[tacit remnant]

laughs in Plutonia

[ember orbit]

this WAD is really testing my limits

[finite crag]

Evilution has a problem with way too many hitscanners.

Plutonia has way more chaingunners but it actually uses them to good effect unlike Evilution, actually having them serve a purpose instead of just spamming them.

[ember orbit]

im literally stuck in map 8 because of the chaingunners

its mostly luck based for me

[azure nimbus]

hey, tnt has some good levels(the casali levels)

[ember orbit]

im considering savescumming specifically for this part

[vivid vine]

Plutonia is good at using them to pin you down instead of always having them in a giant open area with no cover at all such that as you pick off each one you get less and less suffocated

[ember orbit]

exactly, chaingunners out in the open is just a terrible design

whats even worse is that their range is literally infinite

[vivid vine]

Plutonia puts them in downright sadistic spots but they often can't even move from them so you know exactly where they are

[finite crag]

Yeah I agree.

Seriously. Plutonia is a masterclass in level design.

It exemplifies some of the best level design in the OG games I think.

[ember orbit]

like literally by the time i get to that area i have 20-40 hp and theres like 5 chaingunners in the open

all i can do is run around and pray that ill survive

[vivid vine]

Plutonia does revenants in the open and often with vantage points

Does it with arachnotrons too

[azure nimbus]

it isn't actually but it is rather far.

[ember orbit]

i mean yeah i just phrased it like that

[azure nimbus]

by all means though, chaingunners are wild. insane range, reaction time, pretty solid health pool, hitscan. continuous damage. it's a lot. I'd rather fight a cyberdemon than a chaingunner lol

[ember orbit]

is it fair if i lets say define like 3 points during the level during which i save and start from?

im mostly trying not to savescum but moments like these are just awful

[pearl osprey]

there is no wrong way to play doom

[azure nimbus]

If you find yourself getting slapped, you have a couple options: save scumming real hard, introducing saves before big fights, using multiple saves if you find yourself softlocked, finding a video of someone beating it, using cheats to learn the map/secrets first. Saving is one of those.

With the whole "right/wrong" way, I would be more concerned about "what am I trying to do?" Am I trying to learn a level's layout, practice individual fights, route a run, complete a run, or just explore to play casually, or...as I do sometimes...just throw on IDKFA IDDQD and burn through a big swath of monsters for funzies

[ember orbit]

i see, ill probably just save before big fights and if i die a few times on that part i might use that save

but my goal is to actually improve my skill

and well, to have fun

[azure nimbus]

I have, very often, run through with cheats to learn the layout, then saving before big fights, then doing attempts for a run as I iterate over a route. If I die a bunch, I might do another run with saves all the way through. For me, that's been the best way to improve.

[ember orbit]

i see, well i kind of want to go in blind because replaying it will be kind of boring, but yeah that seems fair

[azure nimbus]

blind runs...I am wayyy more forgiving of save scumming for myself. Because very likely I screwed up early on and set myself up to die faster due to low health or a missed secret. maybe that takes midfight saves or reverting to an earlier save. blind runs are rough.

whatever you do, just try to be cognizant of what you're trying to do and don't feel too guilty about it as long as you know what you're doing

[ember orbit]

i see, well thanks for the advice

[azure nimbus]

I mean you can see my streams, I'm saving even on the full runs in case I die and need more practice from that point, often flipping on iddt or idclip or iddqd to double check the layout. no shame

[ember orbit]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/835289433850249226/957404109852512328/Screenshot_1615.png

that room is just the worst

[cloud talon]

Only one level doesn't have them

Which is hunted

[tacit remnant]

What I’ve been doing in Plutonia is only resorting to saves in levels where I get especially stuck, and then only right after clearing the first big hurdle in the level

[ember orbit]

alright i've finally beat that level

[tacit remnant]

I’m still very early in Plutonia but I’m looking forward to Hunted

[cloud talon]

Never look forward to hunted

[ember orbit]

i gotta say evilution has some nice tracks

[cloud talon]

Looking forward to hunted is a terrible mistake

[tacit remnant]

I know it’s going to be painful but it’s such a cool idea

[cloud talon]

Well get ready for plutonia with no new tracks

[ember orbit]

also maybe why im struggling so much with these levels is because im playing on UV while experiencing the level for the first time

[cloud talon]

It also has no new textures and just used the base doom 2 ones

[ember orbit]

oh well

[tacit remnant]

I’m playing on UV for my 2nd Plutonia attempt and it seems to be identical to HMP

[finite crag]

I thought Plutonia had custom textures

[pearl osprey]

It has a waterfall texture not present in doom2

[azure nimbus]

hunted is scary but it is oddly enough much easier than the rest of the wad imo. least archies give you a warning unlike chaingunners

[royal heron]

Hunted honestly I think is piss easy

As long as you don't get gangbanged, it's fine

And there'a a secret that reveals notches on the floor telling you where to go and grab the keys or go to the exit

[royal heron]

Good luck

[plush pecan]

Hello all. I've been looking for an egyptian themed megawad. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

[azure nimbus]

Eternal's Epic and Epic 2 or Scythe2's 6th through 10th levels. Ancient Aliens kiiiiiiiinda has an Egypt theme but that's mostly because there are pyramids and hieroglyphs on some walls. It is ultimately about aliens

[plush pecan]

Thanks for that. Yeah Scythe 2's description made me want a full one lmao. Doing Scythe 1 rn

I just need something less vanilla doomy and brown

[azure nimbus]

Oh I was going to suggest Alien Vendetta map20 but AV is aggressively vanilla -- but map20 is very aesthetic and egyptiany. sure it's vanilla, but it looks good.

[split bronze]

So I was playing some modded doom(1993) you wont believe this, the game froze while playing brutal doom

[vast reef]

yeah

turn the resolution down

should increase fps and help stop freezing

[upper crypt]

Any tips for The Catacombs on UV? Those chaingunners always get me

[hexed escarp]

I love that by naming two games doom, they made it so that you can't really call either one doom without causing confusion

[plush pecan]

I've never even played the new one

[tacit remnant]

It’s fine. It’s kinda like a rough draft for Doom Eternal in a lot of ways

[zenith berry]

If you count the Doom movie, then there’ll be 3 media (not just games) bearing the name “Doom”.

Doom (1993), Doom (2005) and Doom (2016)

[split bronze]

All I did was shoot a barrel that was next to an Imp with Akimbo Pistols

[split bolt]

hey guys I was messing around with some cheat codes and I somehow made the blockmaps visible how do I disable it

[pearl osprey]

open map, click G

if you mean in GZDoom commands then check the wiki

[split bolt]

oh ok thanks

[azure nimbus]

it isn't a cheat code, just a feature of the map so dw about pulling it up during a run

[split bolt]

yeah I was using IDDT while using the automap and I accidently pressed G

[azure nimbus]

It is interesting that both IDDT AND IDBEHOLDA exist. Same for IDBEHOLDV and IDDQD

[vast reef]

i think there was a band named doom too

[vast reef]

yeah that would send my pc into oblivion

[split bronze]

Noice, I have a mini pc

[vast reef]

i have a pc from 2007

[split bronze]

Where pc from 1993 for proper doom expirience

[vast reef]

2gb ram
intel pentium smth smth (2 cores 3.30 ghz)
intel hd graphics 510

we got a pretty fast ssd for it last year

[vast reef]

got lost in the flood

[dapper flint]

Asthetics definitely hold up

[vivid vine]

Vanilla holds up too

[dreamy summit]

playing the original doom all vanilla, its still a solid game years later

[vast reef]

are you playing with the arrow keys

[dreamy summit]

no wasd, but it still holds up

[vast reef]

nice

which port? unity?

[dreamy summit]

well ive played gzdoom alot, but i just got ultimate doom from steam and i play that

[vast reef]

nicee

that's the unity port

[dreamy summit]

well im stupid

i didnt know that

[vast reef]

oh dw

a lot of people don't
it's fine

[dreamy summit]

yeah, i just dont look into what port i use and just kinda play the game

[vast reef]

well different ports act considerably differently

gzdoom is pretty much a modern remaster of doom
pretty darn far from vanilla but has a LOT of new features and graphical enhancements

i play on gzdoom when i want gore mods along with smooth doom (my dehacked smooth doom refuses to work with wads other than doom 1, doom 2, and the final doom ones)

[dreamy summit]

ive played the original floppy disk before, cant really remember it exactly tho

[vast reef]

ooh

my first experience with doom was playing it in a browser with the arrow keys
it was wacky

but i never got anywhere since i didn't know you had to press space to open the door

i was a stupid child

[dreamy summit]

ha, i had one of my friends play it on a browser, that was his first doom experience

[vast reef]

the first doom game i put a small amount of effort into was doom 64
sadly i never beat the first level because it was too non-linear for my mental age of 4

i only really started playing doom in about july 2021 then fell off and came back december 16

the obsession began and here i am now

[dreamy summit]

the obsession with this game when i played the first game when i was like 2, and i remember it vividly, just not some of the game details

[vast reef]

i first found out about doom through avgn and karl jobst back in like 2019

before people get mad at me
i only really got into video games in about 2019

[dreamy summit]

i found out about it when me and my grandpa played it together on his computer a long time ago

[vast reef]

but in 2017 i saw a poster for doom 2016 at the mall

[vast reef]

nice

[finite crag]

It's still the second best Doom game.

OG Doom games hold up incredibly well. All the greatest shooters do.

[azure nimbus]

what happens if a spawn cube lands on a monster/player outside of map30 in BOOM

and what about standing in front of a PE(where they spawn lost souls on your head) on map 30 in vanilla? does it prevent the spawn or is that a telefrag?

[dapper flint]

You don't say

[vivid vine]

I don't have to say. Or shouldn't, but read 'aggressively vanilla' which I suppose is a good enough alt name for Alien Vendetta

[dapper flint]

I wish my life came with texture filtering

[vivid vine]

Which setting

[dapper flint]

Extra chonk

[pearl osprey]

Easy, become shortsighted

[azure nimbus]

oh yeah, by all means I'll call AV aggressively vanilla but it looks pretty good.

[vivid vine]

Considering its vanilla format it has to be

[azure nimbus]

Nightmare is really making me appreciate the chaingun and plasma

[vivid vine]

Pistol starts make you relieved to find a chaingun

[vast reef]

the only filtering i have is colorblindness

[azure nimbus]

with the bestiary of the vanilla IWADS being far weightier at the low end, the thing is really good. Especially against pinkies when you don't have ssg

[finite crag]

Plutonia 2... Beaten

Wow. What a fantastic pwad. Seriously incredible. Level design is consistently fantastic, music is phenomenal, final boss is cool. I liked it a lot!!!

[azure nimbus]

do you mean pwad? The info on the wiki page said that it uses plutonia's iwad

[vast reef]

i just say wad lmao

[vast reef]

arch-viles are scary

[fast mortar]

Left plutonia 2 at map 22, idk i kinda got bored of the later maps but imma continue it, so close

[finite crag]

Yeah I did haha I got confused.

[azure nimbus]

I've talked about how vanilla levels are kinda trash but playing nightmare makes them way better. Less concern about all the nonsense hidden areas with rando monsters. I just want the secrets, less issues of spending time sniping monsters for 100 % that are out of the way as vanilla is wont to do, and the main fights which are often somewhat easy in the iwads are challenging now. And the meta of what monsters are scary and what weapons are good shifts. pinkies become far stronger as do cacos and imps, the chaingun and plasma become stronger too due to increased ammo and necessity of pain chance. I say this now but we'll see what happens when I try map04,22,29. I'm scared of 24 and 26 too but not as bad

[prime lava]

@azure nimbus what maps have you done in d2 yet?

[finite crag]

When doom 65

[slim willow]

when you fix this damn door

[vivid vine]

Meanwhile vanilla is one of the best map styles

[finite crag]

Jesse repaired it

[azure nimbus]

everything except map02,22,29. I am really struggling in map04 rn

[cloud talon]

When you come up with an original joke that hasn't been beaten to the ground for the past 20 years

[finite crag]

Does anyone know how to progress past here on level 29 doom 2, idk what to do, I’m at this central platform thing and I killed the baron of hell and made sure I didn’t get stuck in that room but now idk what to do

[azure nimbus]

interact with the scratched portion(black marks on brown) on the center pillar

[finite crag]

Hmm is it in the lava? Like the bottom of the central place with the walkway leading to those room thingies?

[dapper flint]

Who gives a shit how you play classic doom. You're all playing the same game

Dumb asses

[finite crag]

Dude I’m saying that I don’t fucking know how to progress, learn how to read and get your toxic ass out of the server

[dapper flint]

I never read what you said and I don't know who you are

And I wasn't talking to you

You simpleton

[finite crag]

Ok sorry, can you please reply to them atleast so I know who your talking to?

So I don’t take stuff out of context

[dapper flint]

I don't like to ping people because they could be busy

[finite crag]

Ok

Sorry for the misunderstanding

[dapper flint]

No worries

[royal heron]

Bruh this is what happens whrn you take stuff out of context

Not knowing how to progress has nothing to do with playstyle so idk how you'd connect that to your message

[azure nimbus]

What was the context? I scrolled up for a while and don't see anyone being annoying about the right way to play doom. Discord lets you reply without pinging by turning off the @ sign

[finite crag]

Yeah

But can u specify a bit on what I do, I still don’t get it

[azure nimbus]

I"ll send a link to a picture one sec

[finite crag]

Thx

Dm

Me it

[terse meadow]

The more i see from it the more i want that in the new classic doom games:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-XQZ16Tx7A

What a masterpiece!

[azure nimbus]

finished map04. now we're suffering in map22 and 29. 22 is more chaingunner h&ck

[vast reef]

what are some nice-looking texture pack wads?

wads that are just textures i mean

i remember coming across some of them a while back

i can't remember the names though

[zenith berry]

Picture this: Slaughter map modelled after Oscars stage. One Berserk in front of you. Many Imps to punch for.

A will to fight.

[prime lava]

lol nice

probably do the bar glide in map22

that will be easier

map29 won't be that bad with practice

[finite crag]

Yes i think we need Maps like Okuplok / Mega Slaughtermaps in Classic Doom games for PC and Xbox

[royal heron]

Just saw this dude ask why people play doom when the game is so old lol

Also complained about the graphics being bad and too old, and said that modern games like Doom Eternal are much more worthwhile playing because they look better

[grim pollen]

I can get behind part of the graphical argument in that I bet lots of gamers would struggle a bit to play atari 2600 games but worthwhile playing? They bring totally different experiences and artistically doom looks superb on sourceports. If classic doom was truly horrific to look at then it's doubtful that it'd garner anywhere near the community engagement near 30 years later.

[azure nimbus]

graphical fidelity is low...but HD doom exists now. You can look up and down if you want. and you can have translucent projectiles if you want. artistically, it looks good. unique looking monsters. Though some textures are jank but that's what custom levels are for

[royal heron]

Something that still puzzles me to this day is why so many gamers consider graphics to be the most important part of a game to where they'd deem a game unplayable if they don't like them, and basically never experience the gameplay

Sure graphics are important, but gameplay is more important than graphics

[azure nimbus]

doom's graphics help gameplay. items and monsters are easily identifiable.

[royal heron]

Games like Cyberpunk 2077 prove this point when it was released, it had great graphics but all the bugs from an early release pressured from people caused numerous game-breaking bugs

[royal heron]

Hm

E4M6 Nightmare seems like an interesting level to run

I said I wouldn't do anymore NM difficulty runs, but I want to check this one out

[vast reef]

modern community-made wads look beautiful

[vast reef]

i absolutely love classic doom's aesthetic

[vagrant bone]

Me to

[vast reef]

it just has this charm to it

[vagrant bone]

True

[royal heron]

meanwhile that guy: "Looks bad and old"

I mean... it was 30 years ago when it was made what do you expect

[vast reef]

my friend picked up doom and didn't complain about the graphics even if they were using gzdoom and linear filtering was on

they just said it was too hard lmfao

they were playing doom 2

[royal heron]

the person was prolly a teen lmao cuz he said "ok boomer" to a bunch of people who were replying to him about why his opinion wasn't valid

[vast reef]

lmfao

yeah no

[dapper flint]

My 3 year old neice plays doom 2. Your friend is just bad

[vast reef]

yes

she admits it

[vast reef]

imo the only old graphics that don't look too good are early 3d games

[dapper flint]

For sure

[vast reef]

and even then, some games like super mario 64 look great

[dapper flint]

Lose that charm

[vast reef]

quake too i suppose? not really that much though

[dapper flint]

Quake has an amazing atmosphere

So if does the 3d well

[vast reef]

yes

[dapper flint]

Atmosphere is important

[vast reef]

quake's sound design is great too

[dapper flint]

9

[royal heron]

gonna have to watch E4M6 runs to get a route I can use

[azure nimbus]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1438346610 if I may shamelessly shill for my route

[vast reef]

damn

[royal heron]

Oof that baron slash was kinda nasty

[azure nimbus]

maybe I shouldn't be talking since I get lamoed by the guy, but I find that going out a lil more forward so you can travel mostly sideways to hit the switch increases the odds of getting out safely. -- nevermind...no idea how to be safe with him lol

[nimble nest]

trying to speedrun doom 2 and i am very bad at it, not officially speedrun it, im trying to beat the par times and get the under 2 hours achievement

[azure nimbus]

since it's cumulative, focus on longer levels. you can save lots of time there. In particular, map 15 can be beaten really fast and it probably took you half an hour in your first playthrough. run to the TP in the lava, grab the bfg and key, jump to the switch in the lava that opens the cacos and invuln, get invuln and tp back up, run to the building with blue key and exit.

[royal heron]

I've done that baron switch hit many times actually, I think I just stuck on the side of the walls

[azure nimbus]

whatever the case, that middle portion of the level has enough healing that it doesn't matter all that much. it's the beginning and end that are hard

[azure nimbus]

is there a difference between -coop_spawns and -solo-net? Woof has solonet now, as of late february

[vast reef]

don't think so

[azure nimbus]

ok tested it. solonet acts like a multiplayer game and coopspawns keeps singleplayer behavior like being able to pause and weapons going away after you pick it up. solonet gives the multiplayer post-level screen too

[finite crag]

I'm personally of the opinion that these things ruin the charm and aesthetic of Classic Doom.

[vast reef]

high-res doom looks unsettling

[finite crag]

Making it look vanilla (software rendering, no mouselook, etc...) is the best way Doom can look. The textures and graphics were made with these things in mind.

[vast reef]

mainly because of actor sprites

it looks wrong

[finite crag]

And I want to point out another thing.
Broke: "Doom's graphics are bad but that's just because they're old."
Woke: "Doom's graphics are great, we've just made greater since 1993."

[vast reef]

in gzdoom even with mods i turn the resolution down a lot

[finite crag]

Yeah

The OG Doom has great graphics. It always has. The fact that we've made better doesn't change this. The game was revolutionary for 3D graphics, but even now the games look great.

The color palette is great, the textures are iconic, the enemies look fantastic. Definable and unique enemy sprites mean it's nearly impossible to not notice enemies or mistake certain enemies for other enemies. The graphics of Doom have remained iconic since 1993.

People tend to think in this mindset of good graphics means higher-poly, prettier, more taxing. That's not reality. Good graphics means a game's art style, aesthetic, and general "look" all benefit the game and properly give off the creator's intents and wishes in said game.

In that regard I would say that Doom 1993 looks much better than your average Sony exclusive third-person shooter with mega epic polygons and hyper-realistic character models.

[azure nimbus]

more edges means more graphic. circle has infinite edges. circle is the most graphic shape

[finite crag]

I would also say, on a personal note, that this is why I don't care for most gameplay mods of classic Doom.

I don't care for Brutal Doom, I don't like Smooth Doom, Project Brutality, nah. I can respect the amount of work and effort that went into them!

But in terms of actually using them in playing classic Doom, uh, no. All the fancy shit looks weird in classic Doom. The charm is gone.

[azure nimbus]

does anyone do coop_spawns on nightmare? I would think no because doom2's coop spawns barely change anything but other maps with coopspawns aren't likely doable on nightmare.

[finite crag]

I'd hate to imagine Plutonia like that.

Doesn't Plutonia put a Spiderdemon in MAP01 on co-op?

[azure nimbus]

yep

[finite crag]

That's scary. :^[

[azure nimbus]

it's pretty trivial on UV, but if it respawns...yikes...that's an infinite health monster with the output of 3 chaingunners

[vast reef]

the gameplay is fun but it looks cheesy imo

from experience though brutal doom tends to just be doom with sniping and more taking cover

[finite crag]

Yeah.... not my thing.

The beauty of the OG games is in their simplicity and refined design. Muddling it with excessive gore and takedowns and all that shit is lame. I'd rather simply play the modern games for that.

[hallow herald]

Even they have their charm (if you turn off texture filtering

[vast reef]

yes

[vast reef]

yes

[hallow herald]

For example half life 1 looks okay with texture filtering on

[vast reef]

i like smooth doom though
mainly because of the pistol

[hallow herald]

But with texture filtering off it looks great

[vast reef]

it can still look good if you turn on linear filtering

[hallow herald]

Eh linear filtering looks kind of like smeared shit in my opinion

[vast reef]

PB has a lot of cool stuff

[hallow herald]

Texture filtering only works well if the textures are high enough of a resolution

[vast reef]

that's actually a good point
but my excuse is that i can't run the modern games

actually i can barely even run PB why am i saying this

[vast reef]

i like the shitty look sometimes

[hallow herald]

I guess

[vast reef]

it looks nice and crisp with it off

[hallow herald]

Ye I agree

[vast reef]

but when it's on it looks like they took a photo and pasted it on

that aesthetic is the reason i sometimes turn on linear filtering in gzdoom

[hallow herald]

I guess

Imo textures only got high enough of a resolution to look good with filtering around 2004

[vast reef]

i play with the BD gore-only mod a bunch because it just looks nice

sometimes (a lot of the time) though the gore gets in the way

if i intend to play properly i turn it off

then again i wouldn't be trying to speedrun anything on a zdoom port unless zdoom's the only way to play it

[azure nimbus]

The gore changes I use are colored blood and mirroed corpses. Anything beyond that is too much for me

[vast reef]

honestly though doom looks great as is

unless the wad you're playing is crappy

[vast reef]

sometimes i just sit there and stare

[finite crag]

Someone needs to make another ultra realistic doom mod sense the last time that happened… well, guess it was a bit too realistic

[vast reef]

respectfully, no.

the "somebody needs to make an ultra realistic doom mod" part i mean

[finite crag]

Yes

I agree with you

I was kinda joking lol

I don’t want another one 😅

[vast reef]

lmfao yeah

[finite crag]

Who forgot doom 2?

İ killed this in master levels

[fervent plaza]

idk what u guys are talking about i enjoy hideous destructor very much

[vagrant bone]

Not me if fun af

[honest coyote]

I personally enjoyed the first doom game(Ultimate Doom) more than the 2nd one tbh

I feel it had its magical charm especially with the intermission screens that made you predict how the next levels will look like

[finite crag]

Ok

Doom 1993 definitely trumps Doom 2 in terms of quality.

[finite crag]

İ installed brutal doom and doom HD mod

More HD characters

İ liked...

2020 version

[slim willow]

nah

[finite crag]

Sorry man, but Doom 2's level design fucking blows.

Doom 1993 has great level design for the most part + the superior Episode format.

Oh and an infinitely better soundtrack.

[slim willow]

D_TENSE.mus

[royal heron]

Endgame slaps though

The city levels in Doom 2 definitely suck, but at least it introduced new enemies and the super shotgun

[halcyon willow]

Episode 2 and 3 of doom 1 are much worse than doom 2 as a whole

From a level design perspective

Telling that romero has no maps in those episodes

Doom 2s bestiary expansion alone makes it a better experience than doom 1

[finite crag]

Ehhh I dunno. Episode 3's my favorite of Doom 1993 and I find it to be way more bearable than anything in the middle third of Doom 2.

[halcyon willow]

There's a reason 99% of custom content is for doom 2

[finite crag]

Well yeah obviously Doom 2's the better game for modding and map-packs.

[halcyon willow]

Episode 3 feels full of good ideas that are poorly implemented to me

Limbo being case in point

It should be good. But its very tedious to play for me

[finite crag]

But taking the games solely on their own - I think Doom 2 does a horrible job of properly using its new enemies effectively in a way that highlights their strengths and weaknesses. The middle third of the maps blow, and the final third of the maps are fine but not very good and visually completely bland.

[halcyon willow]

Throughly disagree

But each to their own

(The city maps are bad though)

[finite crag]

Oh and the soundtrack's a big part of it for me.

[halcyon willow]

Except inmost dens and industrial zone

[slim willow]

This. Its fight abilities are much stricter than 2's, which helps it to lose steam faster. Even wads like Sigil feel limited at times due to the limitation.

[halcyon willow]

Those are cool

[slim willow]

And Sigil is really damn good.

[halcyon willow]

Doom 1 ep 1 has the best soundtrack

[finite crag]

Doom 2's soundtrack fucking sucks. Into Sandy's City, Shawn's Got the Shotgun, and The Demon's Dead are the only good songs in Doom 2. Every other song absolutely sucks.

[halcyon willow]

Sigil was a lot of fun

[slim willow]

Suspense and Sign of Evil

[halcyon willow]

Salty much?

[royal heron]

Endgame is good, the last intermission screen music

[halcyon willow]

Just ranting about how things suck is thoroughly unconstructive

[royal heron]

https://youtu.be/DV4al1nggmk

This is a remaster, but it's still good regardless imo

[halcyon willow]

If I wanted to hear that I'd go talk to teenagers

[finite crag]

Doom 1993's use of music is good. First song when you get into Hell is Untitled, which is catchy as shit, makes you feel like you're genuinely in a new area and shit's getting down to business. Doom 2's first Hell song? This lame elevator music crap:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv3biyYpiC8

[halcyon willow]

D runnin is a banger

[slim willow]

Endgame, Getting too Tense, Bye Bye American Pie, Countdown to Death all suck?

yeah even good ol D_RUNNIN is a classic

[finite crag]

I am incredibly positive about Doom in this server; I've gone on several rants about how fantastic the entire franchise is, and I've been immensely positive about it. Some negativity here and there isn't too bad.

[royal heron]

I mean it's literally Pantera's Mouth For War

[finite crag]

And yeah Countdown to Death absolutely sucks, this song sucks! This isn't Hell. Laaame.

[finite crag]

Yeah

[slim willow]

[halcyon willow]

Enough

[finite crag]

It is Not a Good Song. I'm sorry.

Well actually I'll give you the intermission text music. That one is fine.

Not as good as Doom 1993's but it's alright, I give that one a pass.

[halcyon willow]

I'm sure the composer is wiping their brow in relief

[finite crag]

Bobby Prince? Yeah I gave him the thumbs-up. He's fine.

[grim pollen]

I love the music choice for the only hell map in doom 2 spirit world 😛 Sure it "says" it's in hell but theres very little that resembles inferno in doom 1.

[royal heron]

I'm sure Bobby's spirit is just watching this convo with extreme anxiety about the midis he implemented

[halcyon willow]

Ikr

[finite crag]

Maybe if they used the game's best song in more than one level I'd like the soundtrack more. It sucks that Into Sandy's City only plays once. That is silly.

[slim willow]

pretty sure nirvana is the first hell level

[halcyon willow]

Shawn's got the shotgun is the best track and plays .... 4? Times

[finite crag]

If anything, honestly, I've said this before but if Into Sandy's City were the game's main theme instead of Running From Evil, oh boy that'd be a lot better I think.

[slim willow]

I'll agree that song deserved at least one more play

[finite crag]

3 times. It's a good track, I really like it, but not quite up there with Into Sandy's City.

[royal heron]

Into Sandy's City is one of the best Doom 2 MIDIs
Sad that it wasn't used for the final cutscene with the Icon of Sin in Doom Eternal, that would've been such a good throwback

[slim willow]

i put on map 29 and it felt great

[limber mirage]

Me who puts on other music 👀

[grim pollen]

im fine with map 7 but could nix its use on citadel

[finite crag]

Ok it is forever complete bullshit that it doesn't play in Downtown.
Downtown is literally Sandy's city. Sandy Petersen made it. You are going into Sandy's city and some other shit plays holy shit you had ONE DAMN JOB.

[grim pollen]

keep it for 7 and 29

[slim willow]

Consume the midis Bob

[finite crag]

Downtown's like the worst map in Doom 2 but having Into Sandy's City play during it would've made it waaay more bearable.

[royal heron]

Acquire muscle memory for IDMUS bob

[limber mirage]

I joke. I prefer classic doom music over new doom music

[slim willow]

DOOM is one of the best songs though

[finite crag]

This is a great opinion. I don't know if I agree but it's a great opinion.

[finite crag]

Actually I'll recant this too, that is a good song.

[limber mirage]

I was never a metal head. And the new doom stuff is too metal it’s fine, but I prefer classic dooom music

[slim willow]

Bob is a midi enjoyer.

[finite crag]

Still, the majority of 2's soundtrack sucks and does not fit the tone of the game at all which is a huge shame considering how catchy and awesome Doom 1993's soundtrack is.

[limber mirage]

Oh doom 2 sucks in general

[royal heron]

Can we appreciate E2M1 Diemos Base tho, that midi is fire

[limber mirage]

Only the fact wads exist saves doom 2

[slim willow]

[limber mirage]

Like no rest for the living

[royal heron]

I sawed the demons is a masterpiece

[grim pollen]

Love doom 2

[halcyon willow]

Fite me

[slim willow]

yeah. youve earned yourself a trip to The Chasm

[halcyon willow]

Meet me in The Living End

Under the cyberdemon

[royal heron]

Speedrunning moment 👀

[finite crag]

Noooo you're being too negative.
Nah but seriously it isn't even a bad game. I like it, it's fun, but probably the weakest canon mainline game.

Unless you count Final Doom, then it's TNT.

[halcyon willow]

TNT is on par with doom 1

Both start strong

And then tail off hard

[slim willow]

I can't get into TNT. Did it once. No interest to do it again.

[royal heron]

TNT < DOOM = DOOM 2(imo) << Plutonia

[finite crag]

TNT is boring as fuck the whole way through.

[royal heron]

Agreed tbh

I don't understand how some people like TNT

[halcyon willow]

I'd rather play tnt than doom 1 ep 2 and 3. At least then I don't have to grind down barons and cacos with the single barrel shotgun

[royal heron]

Like habitat, that is one of the worst maps

[halcyon willow]

[royal heron]

As well as The Mill

[slim willow]

Plutonia really is the best commercial 90s wad.

[potent slate]

🗿

[halcyon willow]

Plutonia has stood up the best

The casalis were madmen

[royal heron]

Habitat, the one map where you can complete under 20 seconds due to linedef skip

[halcyon willow]

Made the maps to punish eachother

[slim willow]

lmao habitat emote

[finite crag]

Ranking the whole series? It's this:
Eternal > 1993 > Plutonia = 2016 > 64 = Doom 3 > Doom 2 > TNT

[finite crag]

I rank Doom 1 higher for a couple reasons but in terms of level design I 100% agree. Plutonia's awesome.

[royal heron]

18.83 remains to be my best and I don't think I'll ever try again to try and beat Yonaton's time

Habitat is just horrible

[finite crag]

(note: the only bad game here is TNT; I thoroughly love every other game here in spite of some flaws; like Doom 3, I'm a Doom 3 defender)

[slim willow]

Why 64 so low

[halcyon willow]

Doom 64 is a trong contender for best base game

[slim willow]

Yes

[halcyon willow]

Thoroughly enjoyed that

[finite crag]

64's really good! Main things that bring it down are the smaller enemy variety and the limited visual palette. Lots of levels tend to run together which is disappointing.

[halcyon willow]

Shipping a port with eternal was an inspired decision

[royal heron]

TNT's map 30 remains to be the worst icon map imo out of the commercial doom games

[slim willow]

Just wish they axed the pain el*mental and not the rev.

[finite crag]

That being said Doom 64 is still an 8/10. Seriously, like, like I said even though some of those are lower almost all the Doom games are infinitely better than your average FPS.

[halcyon willow]

All IoS maps are bad

[slim willow]

yes

[halcyon willow]

At least plutonia's looks cool

[royal heron]

True but TNT is especially egregious

[halcyon willow]

I actually like the lead up in tnt

[finite crag]

I like 64's Pain Elemental but I have no clue how Pain Elemental wasn't the first cut they made. Weird

[azure nimbus]

Alien Vendetta's might be the worst for the unecessarily fast lifts

[royal heron]

Plutonia's IoS wasn't bad due to cybie turret

[halcyon willow]

No such thing

Slow lifts are a war crime

[azure nimbus]

need a precise sr50 to make it to the lift in time

[slim willow]

I am happy people can agree Icon of Sin maps and Dead Simple clones aren't the greatest.

[grim pollen]

Run from it's frustrating in the map 28 slot but imagine you can't straferun to win AV 30. What a downer ending.

[slim willow]

Map 7's tag can be used in such creative ways.

[halcyon willow]

There are some great dead simple clones over the years

[finite crag]

Plutonia's is fantastic!

[royal heron]

Going Down's map07 wasn't bad

[halcyon willow]

Mancubian candidate

[finite crag]

Plutonia 2's is ALSO fantastic.

[azure nimbus]

the dead simple mechanic is different than dead simple style levels

[finite crag]

(God I love Plutonia 2 a lot)

[halcyon willow]

True

[royal heron]

Run From It sucks as a map for casuals but I like it for prwcticing SR50

[slim willow]

ok. valiant map 7 slaps

[halcyon willow]

Making a dead simple map is a rite of passage for a mapper though

[royal heron]

Although Doom 2 Map31 is also good

[azure nimbus]

like NERF map07, BTSXe2 map07, Tangerine Nightmare's Goetia all use the special 666 tag but none of them are "dead simple clones" like Scythe2's map07

[limber mirage]

Doom 2 sucks

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-meme-spongebob-squarepants-patrick-star-patrick-fight-spongebob-fight-gif-17721615

[halcyon willow]

Do I need to make goat curry again?

[royal heron]

The battle between the mods

[limber mirage]

I’ll have some if you are having some

[halcyon willow]

Canibob

[royal heron]

https://tenor.com/view/the-muppets-kermit-the-frog-smh-shake-my-head-no-gif-4883582

[pearl osprey]

Doom 1 has no archvile, checkmate

[slim willow]

https://tenor.com/view/popcorn-eating-popcorn-watching-amused-michael-jackson-gif-15743549

[azure nimbus]

doom2 has one relevant vile

[limber mirage]

You want a piece of me!

Why yes 8 lbs of ribs

[slim willow]

but archies are the best demon (in my humble opinion of course)

[royal heron]

Agreed

Unless they're used in shit ways

Like in Hell Revealed 2

[pearl osprey]

This is a fact not an opinion smh

[honest coyote]

Map 11 of Plutonia PTSD flashbacks

[azure nimbus]

really nothing like them, such a unique niche

[slim willow]

Hunted is child's play.

[halcyon willow]

Archies are cool as fuck

[royal heron]

Fight an archie absolutely no cover with only SSG, you get berserk as a reward I think so it all comes down to RNG for pain chances otherwise you're toast

[halcyon willow]

But I think revs are my favourite

[royal heron]

That's just shit usage

[vivid vine]

Love me some Even Simpler

[halcyon willow]

Especially as a mapper

[azure nimbus]

there is cover in unted

[honest coyote]

Yeaaa

[slim willow]

Archviles can be used in much much worse ways than Map11.

[honest coyote]

Inspired by ACDC's Big Gun btw

An amazing song

[royal heron]

Agreed, map11 is a piece of cake unless you get gangbanged from both sides

[limber mirage]

Archie’s suck too

[halcyon willow]

[royal heron]

Bob this might be the first time I vehemently disagree with you

[limber mirage]

I’m kidding I actually like Archie’s

[vivid vine]

Dead Simple megawad when

[halcyon willow]

We can use archvile fire to cook the goat

[limber mirage]

Doom 2 still sucks tho

[slim willow]

[azure nimbus]

doom2 plays better on nightmare

[honest coyote]

Cacodemons are my favorite

[limber mirage]

Revs are great

[honest coyote]

Adorable chubby meatballs

[halcyon willow]

[royal heron]

You can pet them in Abort

[azure nimbus]

so many usually boring extraneous areas are skippable on nm cuz 100% kills doesn't matter. and a lot of the slower fights actually get scaring. main issue with NM is that map22 exists

[slim willow]

revs are deadly but not too hard to get rid of. shooting rockets into revenant hordes is satisfying as fuck

[honest coyote]

Also in Lt.Typhon too

[vivid vine]

One of the maps will have to be called The Thunderdome

[azure nimbus]

rockets are especially good vs rev hordes cuz their bounding box is small so one rocket hits a bunch of them

[royal heron]

Deeper penetration yknow

Into the bounding box with a rocket I mean

[slim willow]

revs also become paste when bfg'd

[halcyon willow]

crumbling bone noises

[slim willow]

so yes. good demon. 10/10

[azure nimbus]

and they won't attack if you're 65 to 196 units away

[slim willow]

unless i get hit with a max damage roll rocket. then 0/10

[azure nimbus]

makes rushing a small rev horde with bfg more viable than it seems

[slim willow]

that fight in sunlust map 32

so good

[royal heron]

80 damage rev rockets S U C C

[honest coyote]

Yeahhh

Especially the homing ones

[azure nimbus]

think the rev is the only monster with a lower damage melee attack

[honest coyote]

In a cramped space

[royal heron]

Yeah, the others either have melee damage just as high as their projectile attack or higher

[slim willow]

just gotta dance around them and make em hit a wall.

or another demon. thats fun too if possible

[honest coyote]

Infighting ftwww

[azure nimbus]

caco is especially weird since he doesn't have a melee state but he does deal more damage with melee

[slim willow]

yes. so good

[royal heron]

4shockblast sawing a cybie to death moment

[slim willow]

[halcyon willow]

99% sure it's the same damage

[halcyon willow]

There's a weird quirk in the code where you get hit by a projectile at the same time as being melee'd

[royal heron]

Don't think so, never had 1 of their punches do 80 dmg

[halcyon willow]

I feel like I've had a thicc 80 damage whack from a rev

[slim willow]

I do too. Berserk fighting gone wrong.

Ok fist fighting revs is fun though.

[halcyon willow]

It is

Especially with the zdoom pole arm that is your fist

[azure nimbus]

https://youtu.be/1fcqYr1NevE?t=636

[halcyon willow]

Vanilla hit registration sucks lol

[lost thunder]

getting 60 punched by a revenant is tradition

[royal heron]

I mean, blame the blockmap ;-;

[azure nimbus]

yeah the caco does the usual rng/distance check to determine if it'll attack even within melee range. Every other monster with a melee attack will always attack within melee range

[royal heron]

Hm ducino says 6-60 dmg for revenant fisticuffs

[topaz inlet]

yeah that sounds about right

[azure nimbus]

found a method that might help me beat map29. The caco that guard the plasma tunnel can be ushered out if I chill at the bottom of the stairs after the TP

[topaz inlet]

Abuse revenant punching frames lol

[finite crag]

Hey guys looking to go for another pwad. Should I do Sunlust or Valiant?

(doing sunlust on HMP lol)

[lost thunder]

I'd pick Sunlust over Valiant personally

Episode 1 is my favorite episode in any pwad :)

[finite crag]

Sunlust

Alright.

[azure nimbus]

Valiant. If you are "ready" for sunlust, you should burn through valiant imo

[high thistle]

I JUST FUCKING CHAINSAWED JESUS

[royal heron]

what

[azure nimbus]

the chainsaw is so bad that it actually makes your arsenal worse (having to double switch to your fist) is true BUUUT it is at least kinda funny how bad it is. Why it was a fungy secret in every level of NERF

[vast reef]

the chainsaw's only purpose is doing damage in the entryway when you haven't gotten the shotgun yet

[tacit remnant]

Would it be worth using if it were the Doom 64 chainsaw instead?

[vast reef]

probably

[tacit remnant]

I love the Doom 64 chainsaw. I am normally something of a Doom gameplay purist but that’s one change I’d happily take

[vivid vine]

Chainsaw actually a relief to find

Especially in maps where they give it to right before unleashing a bunch of pinkies

[vast reef]

oh yeah

the chainsaw's good for cacodemons and pinkies

then again, anything with the word "chain" in it is good for those monsters

[proud pilot]

got gzdoom running and played most of the way through doom ii in a couple of days
gonna finish the last couple maps tomorrow
been feeling the same way i did my first few times playing ultimate doom (which is to say a total noob)
but i'm having a good time

i'm actually liking the music more than the first game lmao

also the level design 👌👌👌

lots more running and balancing, feels a bit like a platformer in some places which i enjoy

and lost souls are still my least favorite monster fuck those guys they don't even count toward monster totals

anyway hyperfixating much the same way i did on ultimate doom last year
it consumes my every waking thought

[royal heron]

Lost Souls actually count as kills in GZDoom, just fyi :)

[proud pilot]

FUCK

now i gotta actually deal with the little bastards 😩
you learn something new every day

after icon of sin i'm gonna just. Do the whole thing again and get 100% on everything or die trying

either that or i'll keep doing my e2 one breath run because i keep fucking that up

or i'll keep doing sunlust and dying every 2 minutes

i am not a pro gamer but i don't need to be one to have a good time 🙏

[tacit remnant]

I just ignore kill count aside from using it to gauge about how far into the level I am

[proud pilot]

yeah i've liked that about this port tbh
i wanted the classic hud back for a bit but i got used to it

i started with the ultimate doom port on the fuckin. windows93.net dosbox

[tacit remnant]

I honestly can’t tolerate ZDoom myself. Movement feels very wrong and it drives me crazy. Also freelook on by default is plain heresy

[proud pilot]

yep when i first opened it i spent like twenty minutes messing with the settings
mouselook 🤢 that is not the way

[lost thunder]

lost souls are a projectile with health

[proud pilot]

mod where all the projectiles are like that
no fuck you you can't dodge cyberdemon rockets anymore you gotta beat them up first

[lost thunder]

assuming you didn't also change their AI to be like revenant homing missiles, that would be incredibly useful

portable rockets that instigate infighting

[tacit remnant]

Basically “Oops, All Pain Elementals”

[vast reef]

😍

[azure nimbus]

I like the chainsaw being trashy. It's an infinite damage weapon so has to be pretty niche.

[vast reef]

same tbh

[azure nimbus]

so then it always feels "clever" if you manage to use it on a PE

[finite crag]

I assume you messed with the lame graphical settings too?

GzDoom's default graphics settings are ugly as FUCK. Hardware-accelerated + that muddy sprite filtering + making the hug too small... :^(

[vast reef]

i hate the small hud

i hate sprite filtering

[finite crag]

Hate ALL OF IT.

It looks awful.

[vast reef]

i was gonna say i hate the opengl renderer but idk if i'm correct on that

[vast reef]

idk what it is

[finite crag]

Now I use GzDoom but I have changed the settings to make it look good.

[vast reef]

gzdoom doesn't have pure vanilla behavior even on doom strict compatibility level

[finite crag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/943147981891338241/955917796750000169/unknown.png

[finite crag]

Yeah I know about this. Whatever it is missing, I haven't noticed. Plays great and fine to me with strict on.

[vast reef]

yep, it isn't noticeable

unless you're doing some speedruns that rely on glitches (that gzdoom fixes)

i still use dsda doom for most unmodded things because gzdoom uses a lot more ram for me

[finite crag]

Yeah I get that.

[vast reef]

mouselook makes me vomit in gzdoom unless i'm playing mods

and even with mods sometimes it feels wrong

[vast reef]

yet my sister turns it on when she plays

[finite crag]

It is fine when it's a mod that is just completely different, like Reelism.

But not vanilla shit.

[vast reef]

yes

oh another thing, do you know how to turn off vertical mouse movement in gzdoom?

i can't find the option

[finite crag]

IIRC it is in mouse options.

[vast reef]

i can't put vertical sensitivity to 0, only 0.5

which works fine

but it irks me when i move a little

[finite crag]

But I forget what it is called.

[proud pilot]

yeah i did

saw the sprites with the weird fuzzy edges and immediately started hitting every setting i could to fix that

[finite crag]

Yeah it is GROSS

Same with the hardware acceleration which really messes with the color palette.

[vast reef]

oh and by the way, unless you're using :^( because you like it, discord has an option to turn off auto-emoji

[finite crag]

I just like it haha. Thank you though!

[vast reef]

np
sorry if i pinged you for nothing

[finite crag]

Nah it is no big deal I don't care about pings.

[vast reef]

i see

[finite crag]

But yeah when the graphical settings are used right Doom looks very pretty IMO.

[tacit remnant]

OG Doom looks great on Unity or PRBoom

[vast reef]

yes

i heavily agree

[vast reef]

what do you think of gzdoom's ambient occlusion thingy btw

[finite crag]

Ehhh. I think it'd look fine for mods that are made to use it.

But like most of the more modern graphical tweaks I don't think it fits vanilla.

[vast reef]

it brings my fps lower than than the pistol's damage
but it looks beautiful on some maps imho

specifically more detailed stuff

[finite crag]

Yeah definitely. There is definitely a good reason to use stuff like that on more detailed / modern maps.

[vast reef]

kinda doesn't match the monster sprites though

[proud pilot]

i ended up referring to the settings civvie uses bc those were the closest to what i trained on

[vast reef]

do you use smooth doom

[proud pilot]

nah

[vast reef]

nice

[finite crag]

Very nice.

Smooth Doom looks unnatural to me.

[vast reef]

the enemies look weird

i like the smooth doom chaingun

but the overall mod feels kinda weird tbh

[molten iron]

Everything about Smooth Doom feels wrong to me

[lost thunder]

also re:opengl
xaser (and elim) are actually working on new opengl rendering for dsda-doom that looks quite similar to software rendering

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/776233266411339786/932088658876571658/map01_gl1.gif comparison gif from a couple months ago

[finite crag]

Everything feels interpolated. There's no weight to it.

[vast reef]

when i'm playing i don't even notice it so i don't use it

[azure nimbus]

I did like heartland's smooth shotgun animation among other improvements butI don't think that works for every map

[vast reef]

wifi's down
my messages are taking very long to send

[prime lava]

even uncapped framerate feels interpolated to shit to me :^)

[vast reef]

i kinda like the higher framerate
call me a heathen

[azure nimbus]

fractional framerate gang

[molten iron]

35 fps feels too sluggish to me

[vast reef]

same

[cloud talon]

It made the zombies taller

[finite crag]

I go 60 FPS with OG Doom and that is it.

[vast reef]

lmfao

[azure nimbus]

I'd like to see, in the next oldschool ID interview some questions about how they determined what to tag as a secret.

[royal heron]

35 fps gang

Just makes timing doors and other speedrunning things easier as the window gets wider and wider the lower the framerate is

[lost thunder]

the timing doesn't change bc the logic still runs at 35hz

[royal heron]

Stll makes it easier compared to 60 :/

Also, how does the logic stay at 35hz?

[lost thunder]

all extra frames are interpolated

if you want specifics you'd probably have to ask someone like kraflab or fabian

[azure nimbus]

beat map29 NM. Only one left. I am scared

[proud pilot]

holy shit dude good luck!

i'm about to do map30 for the first time
on hmp obviously but lmao
i think after i'm gonna do the entire thing again on uv

[finite crag]

UV is the ideal way to play IMO. Hard but not overwhelming.

[azure nimbus]

oh first time, that is when people are learning the controls. nbd

I never realized playing UV, but map22 is ridiculous. Teleport into chaingunners more than once? fair and balanced

[dapper flint]

Alot of maps are built around uv which is why I always recommend it

[wicked iris]

classic caco

i love him

[bronze pond]

yes

[azure nimbus]

at least custom levels. I think vanilla woorks better on NM actually

[prime lava]

more fun but I wouldn't say it works better :^)

more fun for me and you, at least

[dapper flint]

Agreed

[prime lava]

but generally a lot of bullshit will come up 🤷‍♂️

[dapper flint]

But personally I like uv.

[proud pilot]

yeah i just like to start on hmp and then do uv on replays
i did that with the first game and now uv is relatively easy for me bc i've practiced so much

i keep dying on icon of sin bc i suck at the rocket timing 👍

[finite crag]

Oh no yeah I wanna specify, starting on HMP is perfectly fine and great.

That's how I first got into Doom.

The way I see it, I liked starting on HMP and then replaying on UV. It was like preparing myself for the main course haha.

[dapper flint]

Really play what difficulty is fun for you. End of the day

[azure nimbus]

I've spent so much time practicing the timing and still miss it

[proud pilot]

beat it at 12% health and then a mancubus got me immediately after it died

feels really good to complete it
i sunk multiple days of my life into that

now it's time to do the entire thing again on ultra-violence

[finite crag]

Fuck yeah!!!!!

[proud pilot]

i think one thing that's happened over my entire doom career is that i've gotten a lot better at melee
so i was able to kinda cruise through with the chainsaw to some degree

best on demons obviously but other than that i think i like chainsawing zombiemen and imps more than shotgunners bc getting that close to a shotgunner still freaks me out 😔 especially if they have room to move

[mild crest]

ow

[proud pilot]

[mild crest]

please

[proud pilot]

RIP AND TEAR

ah hm i died very quickly on map3 i am least effective against chaingunners

[finite crag]

Chaingunners suck and are horrible I think.

[proud pilot]

so true!

am i going insane or is there a backpack on this level

i think i might have teleported right on top of it and not seen it but

i forgor

[azure nimbus]

getting gud at berserk is fun yes

[azure nimbus]

there is but it's hidden and a nonsecret one of the corners of the moat in the main area. I think you need to jump into the secret pit to open it but I honestly don't know

[dapper flint]

They have their purpose

I've seen spider masterminds used well last few maps I've played. Believe it or not

[azure nimbus]

All spiderdemons are queens

[proud pilot]

if she SHOOTS she's a [redacted or the bot will kill me but you get the joke]

oh hmmm random thought, game mechanic that requires you to get fuel for the chainsaw
could work kind of like the lantern in lasting light

[dapper flint]

Never use that shit anyways

Berserk all the way

[proud pilot]

no berserk on the first few maps though

[gusty falcon]

Not much point to have that limit in classic doom

[azure nimbus]

Would take a redesign imo. Like Eternal's or 2016's chainsaw requires fuel but it gives you ammo and is an instant kill. This chainsaw is weak. The benefit is that you get infinite ammo

[dapper flint]

The stuns nice

But yeah

[azure nimbus]

I was surprised that it kiiinda works on revs. oh btw, you like solonet: woof did add -coop_spawns in the newest version

[dapper flint]

That is fucking hilarious hahahah. Eternity man.. now I'm full on laughing

[azure nimbus]

I'l play eternity for heartland, but otherwise, Woof all the way. Might have to revisit your -fast -coop_spawns challenge for sigil. It's nice because it doesn't have any of the multiplayer eccentricities. it is fully a singleplayer game but with the other spawns

[dapper flint]

Yeah I basically abandoned eternity after Heartland. Sigil does uv plus very very well. I can't say the same for 90 percent of the other wads I played. I am worried sigil 2 won't be as balanced though

[azure nimbus]

I do feel that John Romero is more comfortable with doom1 assets but we'll have to wait and see. agreed though, I wouldn't touch solonet outside of very specific mapsets

[dapper flint]

I always look up the maps first to see the balance. Some are just full on broken. Just lazy here's 3 cybers and so on

When I played sigil. I never found myself thinking oh there's no real strategy to optimize for this map

Then I've played wads where I have a chaingun and have to kill 3 archies when on solo net

[azure nimbus]

At least with where I'm at, I reserve niche gamemodes for the more official maps which I've arbitrarily decided are the IWADS and sigil

[royal heron]

They're good if placed strategically

[tacit remnant]

I’m generally not a fan of hitscanners but I think they’re fine if used sparingly and they’re kept fair. Doom hitscanners are typically fair since their attack is telegraphed

[lost thunder]

chaingunners rule

monster with a very solid purpose, just misused

[tacit remnant]

I’m currently playing through Plutonia so I’m a bit tired of them.

[dapper flint]

Infighting is your friend

[tacit remnant]

Yup. I’m still in the early stages though so I haven’t had the opportunity to take full advantage yet

[finite crag]

Should I play plutonia or evilution first

@people that play doom 2

[pearl osprey]

Plutonia

[finite crag]

Plutonia

Plutonia is the best iwad. Evilution is boring as shit.

[tacit remnant]

Evilution is a bunch of maze levels. Kinda boring
Plutonia is a series of short but challenging gauntlets with the occasional arena level.

[pearl basin]

And is also unfair as shit

[tacit remnant]

Plutonia isn’t especially unfair. It’s not very nice but as long as you play by Plutonia’s rules (be gutsy and quick but expect foes everywhere, especially when you’re offered a weapon, powerup, or key), it’s pretty reasonable

[finite crag]

Yeah but which first

Plutonia then?

[tacit remnant]

Skip Evilution outright. Just play Plutonia

[finite crag]

Or should I play no rest for the living

[tacit remnant]

As long as you don’t expect Plutonia to give you anything for free and be a bit paranoid about traps it’s fun

Haven’t played No Rest For The Living

[finite crag]

K

[finite crag]

disagree

play Evilution :)))))

[twilit beacon]

hey im having trouble with doing local co op on the steam port of doom 2. every controller is controlling player one and i cant change it

[royal heron]

only if you don't know what to expect

[sonic thorn]

Considering the plutonia traps are obvious as hell

[brisk copper]

I always intentionally trigger traps for the free items and kills

[zinc sluice]

@finite crag , if you don't mind me asking, how/where did you find the icons for adding classic doom games to steam?

D1/D2/etc...

[finite crag]

Oh, in my collection I posted? I made them myself from pre-existing assets so that they were all consistent.

I can post the images here if you'd like.

[zinc sluice]

if you don't mind sharing that would be greatly appreciated!

[finite crag]

Sure thing hold on, I'll post them all here.

[zinc sluice]

at your convenience sir, thank you so much!

[finite crag]

Alright.
Doom 1: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/943147981891338241/959252652913467462/doomcover.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/943147981891338241/959252651722305556/doom2cover.png
Doom 2

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/943147981891338241/959252652317868133/doom64cover.png
Doom 64

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/943147981891338241/959252652041048074/doom3cover.png
Doom 3

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/943147981891338241/959252652619870308/doom2016cover.png
Doom 2016

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/943147981891338241/959252651185438830/doometernalcover.png
Doom ETERNAL YOU DUMB FUCKING BOT LEAVE ME ALONE.

There you go there's all six!

[zinc sluice]

you are amazing, thank you so much, please don't change... 🙏

[finite crag]

Hahaha thanks. Glad you enjoy them.

[azure nimbus]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1442743684 thank you. I'm done. all levels in doom.wad and doom2.wad done NM 100s (this was...6 h of attempts....sheesh)

[prime lava]

sick :^)

[azure nimbus]

shorttics helped...I think. might make youtube videos with e1, e2, e3, e4, 01-11, 12-20,21-30.

[tacit remnant]

Why do the Casali brothers love revenants so much? I get chaingunners, but the revenants are an odd choice

[lost thunder]

revenants are just one of the best enemies

[azure nimbus]

they're small, high damage, medium health. They are perhaps the most versatile demon

[lost thunder]

very glass cannon-y

also the only enemy where you cannot simply dodge the projectile by pressing A or D for half a second

[tacit remnant]

That makes sense

[royal heron]

that 19% was close

congrats mmjp08 :)

[azure nimbus]

this was the second attempt with shorttics. I was explaining to my roomate what that does. It didn't really register mentally that I had in fact done the glide

[jolly urchin]

This is super late... but No Rest For The Living is dope

[calm cradle]

I hope you are doing well

[cloud talon]

John realmaro😳 😳

You can tell its John romero by the Kevan sevans social media

👀

[cloud talon]

Its definitive proof

This really is John romero

[calm cradle]

I did not make Doom 3

[brisk copper]

Say something the real john romero would say

What's my birthday?

[cloud talon]

John romero knows all

[calm cradle]

your birthday is on a calendar day

[brisk copper]

Holy shit he's real

[calm cradle]

I hope you are doing well

[zenith berry]

When is Daikatana 2

[cloud talon]

When it's ready

[sweet kindle]

Alright.

I made it by myself

https://youtu.be/i2Ld9YNUWls

||April 1 ||

Now

[calm cradle]

Rolled my eyes seeing this thinking it was that crappy PBR cockroach pack being passed off as "Doom Remastered", but no, holy cow, it's legit

[ionic sable]

https://youtu.be/W04uOiya8v4

[forest plume]

Kevin romero, the god spoke to us mortals

[vast reef]

that's kevin romero

[azure nimbus]

https://youtu.be/boXSIaiVgVo compiled my runs for e1

[weak lantern]

Hello

[past field]

so is this actual ray tracing meaning that I'll need an RTX graphics card, or is this just some funni lighting tricks?

[vast reef]

lighting tricks i think
but it doesn't start on my pc so might be actual ray tracing

[past field]

what are your specs?

your pc probably cant handle the lighting

or maybe it can, but its good to check, just in case

you know what, I'll just download it and see for myself

[vast reef]

no i just don't have vulkan

when i start it it says "no vulkan lmfao L"

[past field]

oh

well I have vulkan

well, what catched my eye was "RayTracedGL1.dll"

so that should mean that its just fancy lighting tricks

"cant initialize ray tracing engine"

that doesnt sound good

I guess its safe to assume that doom ray traced is for nvidia graphics cards

[sweet kindle]

Actual ray tracing

One needs a ray tracing GPU to start it

Sadly I don't have an AMD GPU to test it there, so it's Nvidia only for now, basically

Would be nice if someone will add AMD support

[limpid zinc]

I have a 6700xt, I can try it out when I get home to see if it works

[sweet kindle]

I am afraid, it won't start on AMD 😔

[past field]

All my PC specs are AMD, but I dont know anything about coding

And even if, I dont know if my laptop can even do ray tracing

[hexed escarp]

Has anybody seen this before?

https://github.com/sultim-t/prboom-plus-rt/releases

Oh bruh you guys were just talking about it lmao

How well do you guys think it will run on a laptop 2060

[limpid zinc]

I mean if you know how to implement rt on amd gpus and want me to be a guinea pig for you to test it I can

[past field]

I can test as well

[finite crag]

bethesda needs to add new wads to the console ports

been almost a year since the last one

[mellow quarry]

I know this is the wrong chat but dose anyone know how to fix eternal arc complex not loading past 22%