classic-doom

[crystal hill]

I rarely value atmosphere

but Arch Violence is really an exception

I say that, as I go into an SRB2 level with excellent music and an atmosphere I really like

[median cloud]

u sure? Feel like av10 and av20 are mostly atmosphere and iirc you rated them highly as well

[crystal hill]

alien vendetta?

Map 10 is Toxic Touch, right? that's kinda overrated. Still a great map, but yeah

Map 20, Misri Halek is pretty sweet. Used to be my favourite map, until I fell back in love with Plutonia 2

but two things to keep in mind - these are the exceptions, and they come from a wad I rate VERY highly

Ancient Aliens scores a lot of points from the atmosphere/worldbuilding. So does Auger Zenith, it has my favourite world in a Doom wad period

[median cloud]

Yeah culture shock in ancient aliens is also another example

Or map 16 I think leave your sol behind

[crystal hill]

that's what the kids call "peak fire"

the combat is pretty good, but its the atmosphere that seals the deal there

[crystal hill]

that one's a bit underrated if anything

but again, Ancient Aliens is currently sitting at number 6 on my list of favourites, and it wont fall too far out of the top 10, I think

[crystal hill]

hopefully I can finish Doom 2 sometime soon, I've only got 9 maps left

[median cloud]

The og?

[crystal hill]

yes

[median cloud]

Can knock that out in 2 hours

[crystal hill]

As part of my cacoward playing, I've decided to replay the classics on their 25th anniversaries

[crystal hill]

I'm not THAT quick, when UV max pistol starting

especially on an unfamiliar port

[median cloud]

Kex port?

Tbh 2 hours is being generous Im sure you can do it that quick granted you know the maps

[crystal hill]

I dunno

apparently the UV Max record is 1 hour 18 minutes

thats without pistol starting and by a speedrunner

[median cloud]

Thats also all of doom 2 not 9 maps haha

[crystal hill]

oh, thats what you were talking about?

I thought you meant the whole of Doom 2

Maps 22 to 30 probably will take me around that long, but I also have work and I need to leave for a flight on wednesday

[median cloud]

Yeah I meant just those 9

Wont take you longer than 2 hours normally

[dire terrace]

Anyone else ever rage quit after dying and then finding out you have no save and start from pistol or is it just me?

[crystal hill]

I pistol start everything anyway

[woven swallow]

I pistol start every level

[torpid yacht]

I pistol start every level ×3

[mighty walrus]

That's the Classic Doom experience, it's what it is. Start saving a lot after you reach different points in the levels if the pistol start bothers you a lot. Many do this.

[crystal hill]

@median cloud the more I play Kex, the more I realise it is so different fundamentally to ZDoom ports

a big difference is berserk punching is really clunky and awkward in Kex. But in ZDoom, it's so smooth and connects really easily

[woven swallow]

The vanilla doom experience

[crystal hill]

the id24 doom experience

[woven swallow]

Hit detraction is generally clunky in vanilla/boom ports (because of the blockmap bug), Zdoom fixed it that's why it's better

[crystal hill]

I'm gonna be honest, I don't feel too bad about playing Doom in UZDoom

it feels so much better, even with no freelook or autoaim (like Carmack intended)

say, while you're here - do you know if there have been any maps/wads developed for ID24 that aren't Legacy of Rust?

[woven swallow]

Not really

[crystal hill]

thats surprising

I figured it would simply supercede MBF21

or at least exist in harmony with it

[woven swallow]

Id24 is still not even widely accessible yet (at least to my knowledge), even then, I heard it doesn't really bring much anything new to the table

People nowadays stick to mbf21 for their map/mapsets

[crystal hill]

huh? isnt it community developed?

would be really odd if it wasn't made immediately available to people when Doom 1 + 2 launched

[woven swallow]

What?

[crystal hill]

The doom wiki says

"The ID24 spec was developed in a collaborative effort with various members of the community. The core team responsible for the spec included the following members:

Ethan Watson (GooberMan)
    Main programmer
Xaser
    State/thing/etc tables, DECOHACK
    Front+back linedef scrollers, bugfixes, general QA/feedback on the spec wordings"

considering the collaborative and open source nature of projects like this, I cannot imagine these lads would go "no, we're not going to be releasing the tools behind this standard to the public for years"

[woven swallow]

Huh, interesting

[livid light]

i mean half of it is just json lol, its just that the documentation is still a bit poor, i have no idea how the hell ex_defs works

[woven swallow]

All I knew was nightdive licensed RNR24 (from Rum and Raisin Doom) and changed it to ID24

[livid light]

ye thats basically what happened, they extended and added some new stuff as well for h+h

everyone kinda just stuck to mbf21 or udmf since kex also supports the former, and i think theres no level editor that supports the lor enemies defined in id24 so it just makes it worse

woof and gzdoom have some partial support for a few of the lumps but that’s pretty much it

holy crap i found the documentation, its on a google drive i found on doomworld

[torpid yacht]

Screw it
After im done with plutonia 2, im playing sunlust.

[dire terrace]

It doesn't bother me, I just wanted to do a normal playthrough, I thought the weapons remained between levels until you die originally, it's not like I can't continue from a pistol, I just wanted to keep my weapons for the sake of continuity, and when I die it's just a little frustrating to redo the entire level.

If a pistol start is how it was meant to be on every level in doom then I would do that, I just thought that what I did was the vanilla experience

[mighty walrus]

Yeah I totally understand. I think I've just played it for so long that I don't know any different and just expect it inherently. But if you're pretty new to it then yeah I get you

There's still times now where I wanna see how far I get...get pretty far...die, pistol start, then lose my mind lol

[dire terrace]

Usually I just get away from the PC for 10-15 minutes and just continue

It's just that continuing right away to redo the level is a little tedious

[bitter shoal]

I think it was intended that dying put you in a pistol start state because ID still had a mindset in not simply assuming people would save to prevent punishment states, which is why a lot of maps in vanilla DOOM/DOOM II are designed with pistol start in mind to allow players to recover from death and not because they assumed people would pistol start every map (since there isn't really an elegant feature in that for vanilla, you have to use a cheat code or command line to do that) -- I would just use saves though, I don't think even people in the 90s went with the intended death = pistol restart mindset

well actually they probably made every map pistol startable in case you used command line to jump to a level with a new game but yeah

[dire terrace]

So originally the weapons didn't carry over from level to level?

[bitter shoal]

they did if you didn't restart the level in some way

I think they treated it like a SHMUP where dying took away your powerups which was common for arcade games at the time but didn't think about how people would rather just load their save -- but their philosophy of making sure maps were pistol startable was good anyway since you could warp to maps with cheat or command line without having weapons

and "pistol starting every map" was more of a modern player philosophy as more and more custom maps were designed with it in mind and having strong weapons in some maps could trivialize some intended design.

[mighty walrus]

they do if you don't die

or like V. Powerups said

[dire terrace]

And back then there were saves?

Manual saves?

[mighty walrus]

yes

[bitter shoal]

Yes. It was only some console ports early on that didn't have them.

[mighty walrus]

I forgot, are we around the same age?

Can't remember, I know you told me at one point

[bitter shoal]

I'm in my late thirties

[mighty walrus]

Same, 'bout to turn 39 on the 20th of this month ^_^

Time flies, eh

[bitter shoal]

yep...

I'm old enough that I'm likely to troll people with 67 rather than fear it though

[mighty walrus]

lol

I play quite a lot of Classic but don't comment in here very often because 1) The other mods usually are on it and know more about wads and stuff than I do. I'm more of a vanilla player. and 2) Someone's gotta keep an eye on General chat

[dire terrace]

So both ways are the classic experience.

[dire terrace]

That confused me, I thought it implied that the way I played was not the classic way

[mighty walrus]

Nah it is

That's why I said that's the classic Doom experience lol

[mighty walrus]

yes

[bitter shoal]

I forget how death is handled in console versions, I only know that you couldn't save mid-map and weapons carried over to your passwords.

[halcyon willow]

That's because of the way hit box registration was changed for zdoom. In vanilla you have to connect with the center of the hit box. In zdoom ports you just have to connect with the edge of the hit box. This is why it's so hard to punch arachnotrons in vanilla/boom et al

[crystal hill]

oh yeah, hitting the centre of pinkies is making the berserk about as useful as it is in uzdoom. Thanks

[median cloud]

This makes me wonder if that's why you had an easier time in chord3 than me

Since a lot of the struggles I had with this map came from losing too much hp due to the berserk part

[crystal hill]

Thats very likely it

I've noticed all the doom 2 maps I've played are somewhat more difficult on Kex than on UZDoom, some a lot more than others

Because of the hitboxes, infinitely tall monsters, etc etc

[median cloud]

I think the hitboxes are mostly melee affected though, I doubt other weapons will give you such a huge difference

infinite tall monsters definitely is an added difficulty but only applies to specific types of combat anyway

[crystal hill]

Maybe I could try Chord 3 in Kex sometime

assuming it's been ported, which is doubtful. Maybe I can try in DSDA Doom if it isnt

I'm very interested to see how much I'm going to be struggling with Plutonia on Kex

[median cloud]

I've tried it in crispy doom but dsda doom should definitely be fine

I think it's about getting used to tbh after a while playing on vanilla settings you will have attuned your gameplay to accomodate the different settings

I dont think you'll suddenly not be able to beat maps anymore, maybe for a bit

[crystal hill]

thing is, I'm far too deep into the ZDoom rabbit hole to switch over long term

and it doesnt help that like a third of the cacoward winners in the late 2010s are ZDoom projects

[median cloud]

I do wonder if the settings mtpain plays on are more vanilla then?

I know he plays on compatibility set to "strict" whatever that implies

[crystal hill]

oh yeah, I don't do that

Because I know for a fact I'd forget to switch them between the wads I play

I play too much Doom to switch back and forth

[median cloud]

Icl that's a struggle I deal with as well

Sunder needs to be played on Boom compatibility, Pl2 on cl4, kama sutra on cl2

Need to remember this each time I load up a different mappack or I'll break the map

[crystal hill]

yeah, so I play everything in ZDoom

A small price to pay for consistency and enjoyment

Doom 2 update - I'm onto Monster Condo now, so odds are I'll get it done by today

but I can't start the 2019 cacowards properly due to a trip

[median cloud]

One of my favorite Doom 2 maps!

and imo the last decent one haha

[crystal hill]

I dislike the 30 second secret and how big it is, but it's fine outside of that

[crystal hill]

The Living End is quite climactic, but I see what you mean

I've warmed up to Romero's maps on this playthrough, just a bit

[median cloud]

yeah thats a dumb one

[median cloud]

I don't like the living end much, it's okay but meh

I dislike the spirit world

[crystal hill]

spirit world isn't great, no

its like monster condo except even bigger and with worse fights

and lesser atmosphere I guess

[median cloud]

It also has this very vague way to get to the exit iirc

like you need to shoot a random wall

and the shock factor of 2 spiders is completely nullified by like 3 invuls

[crystal hill]

exactly

its really not a very good penultimate penultimate map

[median cloud]

On a side note I think chord3 also plays on map 27

It does fit the vibe of monster condo very well

[crystal hill]

Doom 2 finished

its a mixed bag, but far more interesting than Doom 1

[median cloud]

truth nuke

[crystal hill]

Alright, I don't want to start Eviternity today, because I'm off on a trip tomorrow, so I'll try out Doom Zero instead

I've seen a lot of love for it from here, so I hope it lives up to the hype

[median cloud]

its very minimalistic and a bit puzzle based

Im not a huge fan of it personally

[crystal hill]

the first two levels are quite well designed

I'll say that my eyebrow is raised, in a good way

[wintry copper]

oh damn you too? gonna be going on a trip as well tomorrow morning

nice

[crystal hill]

cool cool, you going far?

[wintry copper]

yeah, to France

where are you going?

[crystal hill]

I'm off to England

been a few months since I last went

[wintry copper]

neat, enjoy your trip!

[woven swallow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1034984988669644872/1493783245001723914/Screenshot_2026-04-15_075108.png?ex=69e0398e&is=69dee80e&hm=9e528cafc78933c3c33a8187148889f9cbdf9f5383c2d9aaadf910f33612ea04 YOOOOO

[median cloud]

@woven swallow how do you feel about those shorttics?

I tried demo'ing for the first time yesterday but got so turned off by it

[woven swallow]

i honestly am not bothered by it really

i know it can feel weird to some, but i really don't mind

[median cloud]

It feels absolutely awful to me lol

Like aiming rockets at a distance is so clunky and annoying now

idk what fps cap you used to play at prior? Maybe you just played capped fps

[woven swallow]

i play uncapped

[median cloud]

Fair idk

I tried it yesterday and it doesn't feel good

feels so clunky

Guess I gotta get used to it

[median cloud]

Which marine map did you finish?

[woven swallow]

stardate 20x7 map02

[median cloud]

Im gonna demo su10 probably

I've beaten about 6 marine maps already

[woven swallow]

Nice 👍

Damn 6!? I need to keep up

[median cloud]

Yeah c-shock 4, c-shock2 5 and 6, su05, su06, su08 and su09

are all marine iirc

[crystal hill]

What does this mean?

[median cloud]

When demo’ing in Doom something called shorttics is enabled which lowers the resolution of mouse turning for optimal demo playback

Problem is that the mouse feels very jittery because of it

[crystal hill]

Ahhh, i see

[winter charm]

@wintry copper Shadou

[limber heath]

Yo

[winter charm]

Nightmare difficulty I am still stunned by to this day. I know you can go in certain areas of a level to get away from other enemies, I've done this. What surprises me always is the respawning and the sheer lack of health kits.

Played Doom for decades and still have issues even in the first level when I don't practise as much.

[boreal brook]

guys can som1 help with the trophy not so bad in doom 1993 playstation?

[woven swallow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1147552306108313631/1494028972739268608/swtw02_LARGE.png?ex=69e11e68&is=69dfcce8&hm=9eb29a1756ee968e9b44875819f2231900aa6c3aaa1a5a00a6ecb1d908ffa31c

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1147552306108313631/1494029029228151005/Screenshot_2026-04-16_000709.png?ex=69e11e76&is=69dfccf6&hm=198d555e7fb4c32784c8d914232ed05ea3379ee6dc4dfd7da7ed988fd0e9c880

Fw02 is kicking my ass, i'm tired of it honestly, definitely gonna stop the grind for a bit and continue to beat something more easier

[crystal hill]

SWtW Map 2 has a really BS fight near the beginning but otherwise its managable

[boreal brook]

Guys, if I close Doom while I'm doing the Not So Bad trophy, can I continue the next day or will everything reset?

[sharp wyvern]

thats beating nightmare in co op right?

[woven swallow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1376790283274162206/1494192839045939220/swtw-02-m-1701.zip?ex=69e1b705&is=69e06585&hm=d83329072f6acced8e04bfd83250092e4eb8061835c6249b57be70c5cab86af6& i am surprised this took me only 10 attempts

[wind flicker]

Hiw do i use my nintendo d pad to play doom on my nintendo switch

[woven swallow]

change the keybinds in settings

[vivid sable]

How do I get steamdeck to run gzdoom or UZdoom

[woven swallow]

https://youtu.be/iBdK5tw_ufY

[vivid sable]

I tried 1 of the YouTube guides before and it didn't work

[vivid sable]

In the video he asks to find gzdeck but I have UZdoom does it work the same

[woven swallow]

it should

i think

if it doesn't then just use gzdoom

important note: i don't actually have a steamdeck

[boreal brook]

Yes

[boreal brook]

?

[twin mortar]

The other trophies (such as the ones for beating the games in a set amount of time) accumulate over time and are not restricted to a single session, so it most likely doesn't reset. But I'm not 100% sure

[torpid yacht]

You can close and continue any other day.

[mossy snow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lR8B85eN1QE

[wind flicker]

It won't let me do the moving binds

[vivid sable]

Well it doesn't work anyways

[glass bone]

Which is that one again?

My ui doesnt look like this, how do i get it like that?

[livid light]

i think you need to click on customize parameters

[glass bone]

K

[lost ocean]

Normal golden

[low flare]

Hello guys i need help

[lost ocean]

With what

[torpid yacht]

With e4m2 ? Or where

[boreal brook]

Guys can som1 help me In share play with e1m6 and e1m7?

[winged bobcat]

today I’m gonna play some freaking doom!! (AVGN reference)

[wispy portal]

that video was really good

[winged bobcat]

true

[crystal hill]

He glazes the original a bit much, considering who he is as a personality

And the playimg doom on c64 bit wasnt funny

He made better doom reviews as part of other episodes in the olden days

[cloud talon]

James Rolfe making an unfunny joke? Since when

[crystal hill]

Hey, he wasnt always like this

[low flare]

Hello

[crystal hill]

Hi there

[crystal hill]

Did you get sorted?

[low flare]

No

[crystal hill]

Whats the issue, then?

[low flare]

So basically i wanted to play. Split screen. With my dad and it never reads the other controller

[crystal hill]

Ahhh, thats a console thing. Can't really help you with that

But it sounds to me like an issue with the controller itself, rather than the game. Unless it works fine on other ones.

Anyway - What's everyone's favourite Doom map/wad from before 2000?

[median cloud]

Hell revealed map 26

[crystal hill]

Interesting

I never gave that map the time of day

[median cloud]

Its a really hard one so it takes some practice to play it properly

But its a really cool concept and also not a bad map

Only ssg combat

HR map 13 is also really good and then chord3 I like a lot as well for pre-2000s maps

Seems like a lot of the better playing/looking maps are also more difficult

[crystal hill]

Chord 3 would give plutonia a run for its money, if only it released a year early lol

[crystal hill]

Yeah, tighter design tends to lead there unless you're very careful

[median cloud]

Just thinking if theres a Requiem map I might put up there

But I found requiem maps not very fun despite some having very cool design

[crystal hill]

My default favourite Plutonia map has been the Twilight

So I suppose thats my favourite single 90s map

I bet the top 5 or even 10 would be from plutonia

[median cloud]

I find it harder to pick a fav plut map than tnt

Tnt 07 or tnt 20 are up there for me

[crystal hill]

Opposite for me

I suppose my favourite tnt map is the one I remember and not because I hate it

I guess that would be map 01? Lol

[median cloud]

The Sunder quest keeps going

Finished sunder map 11 now and imo it was easier than c-shock 2's boiling point

Often compared

[crystal hill]

Interesting

[hidden tundra]

What was the name of the level taking 23 days to complete?

[crystal hill]

Nuts.wad. and thats to do it pacifist

[hidden tundra]

Merci friend

[unkempt smelt]

Im currently doing ultra violence difficulty for my first time playing doom 1

[hidden tundra]

Good luck!

[unkempt smelt]

I hate specter

[storm tapir]

Specters on a big monitor are my kryptonite (Well maybe not, they are too loud to get a hit in most of the time)

[crystal hill]

Turn your brightness up to counter spectres

[storm tapir]

Nah if it bites me I deserve it

should've moved away a tiny milimeter in time!

[lost ocean]

Plutonia map 32 :)

[crystal hill]

Good choice

[lost ocean]

Hehe

Yk the room with the fake exit door?

With arch viles and rockets

Everytime i start killing stuff

In the cyberdemon, arachnotron, revenant, and arch vile arena

And when I grab the blue key

Somewhere in between there

There's like a 50% chance the fake exit opens

And arch viles come out

[crystal hill]

Oh dear

I dont remember that ever happening to me

But then again, I don't remember Go 2 It very well. I played Go 4 It first, and that took up all the memory space

[tame badger]

What do u think is the hardest doom 93 level

[median cloud]

E2m6 prob

[tame badger]

I think e4m6 or e3m9

[storm tapir]

The 93 makes it seem like it is about the original 3 episodes as E4 came out later :P, guess E4M2 if it is started after E4M1

[tame badger]

True

[median cloud]

E4 is ‘95

With e4 its e4m6

[tame badger]

Ok ok ok I keep forgetting i only play 2024 version

[crystal hill]

E3M9 gives you too many resources to really be hard

[storm tapir]

I would vote E4M6 if it is without secrets, the left side secret to skip fighting through nonsense makes it way less stressful.

[median cloud]

I still think its the hardest doom 1 map regardless

[crystal hill]

But thats a 1995 mao

[twin mortar]

E4M6 on UV is brutal. But like Rules said it's not part of the base campaign. I can't really tell you what I'd call the hardest in that batch of levels because they're all pretty easy

[storm tapir]

Limbo with no automap or guide?

Or maye that annoying tele cathedral

Since none of the first 3 ep are hard in combat that leaves the competition to most annoying puzzles/layout

[twin mortar]

It's not hard to do with trial and error

[kind wind]

I have this mod called doom remake 5. Nightmare difficulty and start again from the beginning with enemies that keep on spawning.

[lost ocean]

E3M8 UV would be hardest with pistol start and no other enemies

Because spider mastermind can normally be killed by other monsters

Normally it's easy tho if you're stealthy

Also

Does anyone know who svg_roadhouse is

[crystal hill]

I might say its harder than E2M8

The cyber is super easy ti avoid if you kill all the lost souls

[lost ocean]

Yeah

[crystal hill]

Meanwhile the spider can kill you pretty easy. All you have is a plasma and a handful of rockets

[lost ocean]

Yeah

[regal bison]

Including ultimate dooms fourth episode? I'd say E4M2 or M6. The original 3? E3M8

[crystal hill]

The level that starts you off in front of a pinkie in e3 is a bit tight on ammo at first, so its a bit of a pain. That and house of pain

(Pistol starting, I mean)

[silver sail]

What is your fav doom 1/2 port? Mine is PS1 for Doom 1 and GBA for Doom II

[median cloud]

Prob the ps1

GBA is decent as well

[crystal hill]

Would kex count? for the free new episode of doom 2?

[dull gale]

PlayStation and MS-DOS

[boreal brook]

Guys please som1 help me with e1m6 and e1m7 in SharePlay (Doom 1)

[torpid yacht]

Are you trying to plat Doom 1?

[solid tundra]

Hey guys, does anyone know how tough uploading maps to the new port is?

I’ve got a project I’d like to upload but I’d need to know how strict their workshop is b4 uploading

[livid light]

there are a few json lumps you can add to set iwad or custom remix and original tracks but im not sure if the process is difficult
kex (new port) also supports mbf21 and boom, but not udmf

[solid tundra]

I’ve been making it in for boom format so it’s supported : D

I was aiming for coop support since the beginning

[livid light]

very nice! i’ve been trying to stop using udmf for more compatibility but it been a bit hard having to get used to missing more features

3d floors and slopes especially

[solid tundra]

I still haven’t fucked around with that format just cause I wanna learn how to do more vanilla shit so my creativity can actually take advantage of the features for udmf, my project is a recreation so trying to make it as 1-1 as I can has been challenging with the limitations, but it’s got me really excited all the time

[solid tundra]

I cannot WAIT to make those man holy shit

[livid light]

udmf is pretty cool at complex levels but im pretty sure only zdoom family takes advantage of it, all other ports only have partial compatibility which is a shame :(

[livid light]

ye that’s a good idea, i started at reverse and now i’m having a bit of trouble getting used to it

[halcyon willow]

Eternity also supports udmf

Udmf is just a file format (text as opposed to hex), the port itself determined your feature set

Udmf file format does unlock certain qol features like better texture offsetting

Which is in dsda-udmf

[livid light]

ohh wait, so udmf is a standard with a few features and then every port added their own stuff to it?

[halcyon willow]

Yeah sort of

It's a file structure. Technically you can make a udmf map using just notepad

But the port itself determines the feature set

[livid light]

dayum i never knew that, its pretty weird considering its supposed to be universal and yet every port has its own set of stuff for it

[crystal hill]

Doom Zero is remarkably professional

I could maybe have been convinced it was a NRFTL type wad

[median cloud]

You like it? What map are you at?

[crystal hill]

Map 7. It's starting to piss me off now, though

mazey secrets, lots of tankyish enemies without a great way to kill them quickly.

I was wondering if I'd start liking it less as I went on, and it seems I may

theres also little weird things, like giving weapons new firing sprites and enemies having different sounds to them

[median cloud]

I found the maps looking very bland and 1995'ish

I guess that has a charm as well

[crystal hill]

Thats really funny

I thought you would be the one to appreciate that, and me dislike it, not the other way around

[median cloud]

Honestly maybe I might've but the gameplay might drag it down

[crystal hill]

They look like 90s textured maps except with a lot of effort put into them to make them look nice

[median cloud]

I'm also less forgiving for bland mapping if it's a recent wad

[crystal hill]

I repeat, very professional looking

[crystal hill]

they're not TOO distinct, but I remember some of the gimmicks employed

like giving you choices between the three keys for differing results, or levels that wrap around and up themselves

I'm still enjoying this, mind you. A good start to 2019 (ignoring Magnolia and Hocus Pocus Doom)

@harsh oar what are some of your favourite custom doom 1 and 2 wads?

[median cloud]

Magnolia is pretty rough

as in difficulty wise

When's eviternity?

[crystal hill]

I specifically saved it for after my trip to England

plan right now is - I beat Doom Zero, I play some one map vanillaish wad, THEN I get to Eviternity

I see no reason why I wouldn't get to it by the weekend

[median cloud]

Cool cool sounds like a plan

[crystal hill]

And I'm playing Sonic Robo Blast 2 on the side, lol

[sharp wyvern]

i think it does have a noticeable dip in the middle with a strong beginning and ending

[crystal hill]

hmm

well, unless it drops hard, I imagine I'll at least beat it

[crystal hill]

the Tricks and Traps homage in Doom Zero is pretty cute

[median cloud]

is that map 08?

[crystal hill]

yup

[median cloud]

I think I got past that one

[crystal hill]

oh, you didnt finish the wad?

[median cloud]

Nope I've given it a lot of chances but have always dropped it

Just other things I found more interesting to play

[crystal hill]

very odd

I'm on map 9, and am reasonably confident that I will finish it

It could definitely drop in my estimation, but I've played through and finished far more annoying wads

am I crazy, or is map 9 a going down reference?

the library section, the demon in the "elevator" at the end, and the name reminded me of it too

[median cloud]

Could be

I just checked and I got to map 13 apparently

[crystal hill]

still a few maps away

[boreal brook]

Please can som1 help me

[crystal hill]

I have no idea what shareplay is

[lunar rune]

It is, it's one of my friend's favourite megawads and I enjoyed playing it years back

When first playing DOOM, he was playing on Switch and didn't have DOOM II, so he installed DOOM Zero and that was his introduction to DOOM II

I have no idea why the Unity port kept those two as separate games when DOOM clearly had the code for DOOM II

[crystal hill]

The current Kex port also does that

[crystal hill]

I can't see it breaking into my top 10, or even 20, but its still very good

[lunar rune]

But they're like IN one game, the Unity port was separate and you had to buy and open them separately is what I mean

[lunar rune]

Yeah no it's not in my top 10, it's mainly one of his favourites because of nostalgia

The final handful of maps look really good

[twin mortar]

Cuz they released as seperate games

Combining two games into one is not industry standard with rereleases

Unless it's like a Limited Run Games kind of deal

[crystal hill]

ehhh

its not exactly unheard of

That Mario 3D All Stars thing comes to mind immediately

[twin mortar]

But not the most common thing

Especially back in 2019

[crystal hill]

a lotta older valve stuff got bundled together into one disc

[crystal hill]

oh yeah, I get that feeling

I have a few mapsets I love mainly/significantly due to nostalgia, stuff like Vanguard, Plutonia 2, Golden Souls 1, the works

[median cloud]

For me thats HR

[lunar rune]

I guess so, my main thing is that DOOM had the code for DOOM II so I don't really see why they couldn't do it

[cosmic pagoda]

TIL: theres a new version of going down

[crystal hill]

its not quite identical

[cosmic pagoda]

14 maps in, I can say its great

[crystal hill]

unfortunate

[lunar rune]

It's basically just a more fast paced version of it

[crystal hill]

its far easier

[lunar rune]

Really?

[crystal hill]

oh yes

I played GD Turbo after I beat the first one, and I breezed right through it, almost no effort

[cosmic pagoda]

yeah seems like it, had no issues with UV so far

[crystal hill]

its a shame to have this version be seen as definitive by people

[lunar rune]

The original wasn't too difficult so that sucks

[crystal hill]

when I think its quite inferior to a frankly phenomenal wad

[lunar rune]

For me it's all the Community Chests except for the first one

[crystal hill]

hmmmm

I don't like the first three at all, but the fourth one is great

[lunar rune]

The fourth one is one of my favourite megawads of all time

[crystal hill]

surprised me, after how ragged and unfocused the first three were

[crystal hill]

the fourth one is definitely in my top 25 or 20

[lunar rune]

CC2 and CC3 have some maps I think are great, Black Rain is a really good map

[crystal hill]

I played that map years ago, but I didn't finish it

too long and I didnt know where to go

[sharp wyvern]

different appealing qualities to different people

i personally am usually more willing to go through GD Turbo when i replay rather than GD because the latter is a bigger endeavour lol

love both though and at least GD Turbo is still pretty tough

[crystal hill]

GD takes longer, sure, but my goodness is it worth it

its basically my gold standard for difficulty in Doom, and Turbo just kinda guts it in that regard

[cosmic pagoda]

its quite fun seeing the different takes on the maps either way

[crystal hill]

if you found GD to be too hard, theres lower difficulty settings for you

[lunar rune]

I think Going Down is fine, I think the humour in the intermissions is great and the music is great, the maps look fine and the difficulty isn't anything too crazy

[cosmic pagoda]

the broken records map caught me off guard, had my first death there

[sharp wyvern]

gladiator the best one btw

[cosmic pagoda]

fills the map full of cacos in a blink, not what the original did lol

looking most forward to the demonology one tho, that was my fave of the original

[crystal hill]

the maps do change, some more than others

[cosmic pagoda]

some of the music seems slightly different too

[lunar rune]

In what way? Like does it sound better?

[cosmic pagoda]

idk, if better, but different, some parts have additional instruments

[crystal hill]

maybe cyriak used different tracks?

[cosmic pagoda]

unless im imagining things

but pretty sure I noticed that in map01 at least

[sharp wyvern]

im pretty sure theyre the same

Wedding March For The Princess Of Death is the best one btw

[lunar rune]

Any map from Going Down is better than Goin' Down from CC1 that's for sure

[crystal hill]

I can imagine

[lunar rune]

Yeah CC1 isn't very good

[crystal hill]

Going Down has shockingly good level design, for being made by a relative amateur

[lunar rune]

Oh yeah, he made like one contribution to the first NOVA before releasing Going Down right?

[crystal hill]

He made something like half a dozen maps before going down

[cosmic pagoda]

some people are incredibly gifted and creative like that

[crystal hill]

The Eye (which is a great first map), some stuff in NOVA I haven't played yet, and the best maps in D2INO

[lunar rune]

That's neat, he knew what he was doing

Kind of funny to think that I knew him from DOOM before his Youtube

Jeez 2014 was 12 years ago

[cosmic pagoda]

ouch

[crystal hill]

same here

he's so multi talented

wow, Doom Zero even has a city level that doesnt suck

[sharp wyvern]

is plutonia the first wad with a good city level

[crystal hill]

no, because it doesnt have a good city level

I like plutonia a lot, but I odyssey of noises is still too big and empty as a city for me to like it

[median cloud]

yeah that city level is pretty good

[sharp wyvern]

i love odyssey of noises

[median cloud]

My favorite city map is a subject to think about

[crystal hill]

I'm definitely in the minority on that one

[crystal hill]

does stuff from Auger Zenith count?

because its something like a ten way tie for second place, won by luminescent synapse

[median cloud]

Oh yeah that's actually an easy pick

[crystal hill]

somehow made for limit removing ports, likely using dark magic and ritual sacrifice

[median cloud]

Doom 2 in city only might be solid as well

[crystal hill]

Can't wait to play that in 2028

[lunar rune]

I LOVE AUGER ZENITH

[crystal hill]

its so good man

I need to play more DBPs someday

[lunar rune]

From the ones I've played, it's disappointing that they aren't as good as Auger;Zenith

[woven swallow]

ever played Zeppelin Armada ?

[crystal hill]

I was going to say

its not as good as Auger, and I've only played it the one time, but I had a great time with it

2019's cacowards have so many slaughter maps, holy moly

[cosmic pagoda]

oh boy that map is such a mood

while gdturbo seems in general easier than gd, that surprise dual archvile ambush in constipation station.... hits hard

oh nevermind you get a plasma gun elsewhere in the map

and I dont mean the one in the final elevator

but when you pick up the blue key

oh boy time to see how demonology changed, was my favourite map of the original gd

Also I added a few more toilets.
whats with mouldy and toilets tho

[cosmic pagoda]

still got skeletons in the closet, nice

[crystal hill]

They're funny

[cosmic pagoda]

true that

[crystal hill]

@median cloud I'm really impressed how exploration focused Doom Zero is, and how it makes me WANT to explore

I finished Map 14 without one of the keys (I thought it was locked away), and a lot of kills, and I really really wanted to explore the rest of the level

theres a lot of nooks and crannies you can't quite get to mindlessly running through the level, its great stuff

[median cloud]

oh wow I didnt expect you to like doom zero that much

[crystal hill]

neither did I

[median cloud]

but u dislike exploration in tnt xd

[crystal hill]

I feel I'm a contrarian at heart, and so hearing people here glaze it to kingdom come predisposed me to dislike, or at least not care for it. But it's really doing well for itself

[crystal hill]

Because there's not much to discover in TNT

Though its been a while since a full playthrough. I'll definitely talk to you about it when I get around to it, in like a few months from now

[lunar rune]

Because a lot of TNT's exploration is kind of boring

I like TNT but a lot of it is really unrewarding

[crystal hill]

map 15 is literally called peak facility

despite being a lil annoying, with a missable bfg secret at the start

[sharp wyvern]

Exploring in TNT makes you have to play more TNT

[crystal hill]

I found a pretty cool wad, Alienated

it IS a GZDoom wad, but it feels very vanilla, barely using ZDoom features. It's got the Ancient Aliens texture pack, but doesn't feel anything like AA, more so like a standard wad with some pretty visuals

[cosmic pagoda]

ok, while gd turbo seems easier in general, hard cover is way harder, because you face everything at once and even less... hard cover

[median cloud]

Im almost done with old sunder

[crystal hill]

@median cloud I dont mean to keep glazing this wad, but it is a contender for my favourite map 31 ever

its remixed areas from the first maps of classic id games, with a fleshy theme. It works very well visually and the sections connect very impressively

even if you dont like the rest of the wad, this map at least is worth a play

hmm, I might need to dock points for the backtracking for the secret exit and the lift going there being a one time only deal

map 32 is also pretty neat. But you need to play it without spoilers to get the full effect

you might also want to play at least the first map or two of the wad to get yourself back in the swing of things. it won't take long and it'll be worth it, I promise

[brittle rover]

Classic doom is best Doom

[desert tinsel]

All are welcome to join the Odamex community for Monday Night Horde PvE in 10 minutes :)

[tired marlin]

Classic doom is called classic for a reason. I don't think it's the best, but it's a decent game

[twin mortar]

Decent is underselling it

[crystal hill]

Well, I use classic as a descriptor of their age not their quality

I call Doom 64 a classic Doom despite me disliking it

[median cloud]

It does sound like a good break wad

I'm not sure why it just never captured my attention fully

[crystal hill]

You're right on that

This is the second wad in a row that I have really liked whose main fault is its lack of difficulty

[median cloud]

Lately I've just been mostly playing Sunder

I still dislike how the mouse feels when demo'ing however

but I guess it doesn't impair me

[cosmic pagoda]

I just call it doom, and when talking about the new one I call it the remake or whatever the second descriptor is

[twin mortar]

Reboot? Though idk if I'd call it either

[crystal hill]

Yeah, you need something more easygoing for your sanity, I wager

[crystal hill]

I call the first doom, Doom 1, in order to differenciate it from future ones

Calling it just Doom will be confusing for so.e

[cosmic pagoda]

probably shows my age tho, its been just "doom" for decades, new ones coming out does not change it to me

[median cloud]

I've just been turned off from casual doom due to the demo stuff. I want to get used to it properly but by doing so I have to play Doom under conditions I enjoy less

Others don't seem to have that much issue with it but I do think it's kinda ugh

[crystal hill]

I hope I never leave casual dooming behind

I've never been a speedrunner or liked working under certain conditions

[median cloud]

Yeah it's weird how stuff like this always evolves in a way. I started Doom SP as a fully casual thing but with the idea of playing some of the classic harder maps

and then now I have 3 demos of some sunder maps

[crystal hill]

I want to play some tough maps too, but only those that mean something to me

[median cloud]

there's this thing called the doomed index which has caught my attention

[crystal hill]

Mucus Flow and Fire and Ice specifically

[median cloud]

I do think a lot of these sunder maps are really amazing especially if you can appreciate big slaughter combat

[crystal hill]

I saw that myself. No use trying to beat all the maps on there, they are way above my paygrade

I do have a surprising number of mid tier maps beaten though

[cosmic pagoda]

my favourite tough wad has got to be PL2, lurking fear is such a mood

[median cloud]

Sunder is probably my highest rated wad on average

[median cloud]

Yeah I don't think I will ever beat the top hardest maps but I do have like a goal of beating certain maps because of it

[crystal hill]

Amen to that. Plut 2 has been a favourite since I first tried doom

[median cloud]

Lurking fear is great

[crystal hill]

Top 10 favourite wads ever for me

[crystal hill]

Hope you make it

I suppose we all need goals in our doom journey

[median cloud]

Yeah

[crystal hill]

You have those hard maps, I have all the cacowards

[median cloud]

I've played a lot of those hard maps before with saves and I did like them in general they're very grand and impressive

[crystal hill]

I'm hoping I can get to 2020 by mid may or so

[median cloud]

so I do like the maps in general

[cosmic pagoda]

they help, but not a requirement imo. casual doom is never gonna be not fun. I love how it starts pretty much instantly, I hit dsda launcher on taskbar, hit enter and hit F9 to quickload and I'm straight in the action, where I stopped last time, and I dont really need catching up to do like with other games, its a perfect thing to fill your spare 10 minutes or however long with

[crystal hill]

That being said, playing Sonic Robo Blast 2 as part of the 2019 cacowards is a nice breath of fresh air

Nice to play something that isnt doom or an fps game for once

[cosmic pagoda]

I often play half a map or something with my morning coffee for instance before I start to make myself useful etc

[median cloud]

That's very true

[crystal hill]

Its not a requirement, but it keeps you playing

[median cloud]

Yeah having a goal is what keeps me interested in playing

[crystal hill]

I've played classic doom for 14 months straight now, 100% because of my cacoward goal

[median cloud]

Prior to demo'ing I filled in an excel sheet where I graded all the maps I've played

This also keeps me going

[crystal hill]

If I played it totally casually, I would have stopped after 3-4 months tops, like before

[twin mortar]

Burning out?

[median cloud]

Funny thing to say I'm not entirely sure how many months I've been playing Doom consistently now

[crystal hill]

Nope

[twin mortar]

I played mostly only id Software games from like October through February. I'm so drained now that I haven't launched a single one since

[crystal hill]

The wads I play are quite different from each other

[median cloud]

I see I posted here that I beat av map 25 16 december so I started around mid december then

[crystal hill]

Plus I go on holidays semi often so thats also a change of pace

[median cloud]

I do remember beating HR right before new years lmao

[crystal hill]

I started my cacowards journey a week from now last year

[median cloud]

I guess this completionist mindset I have does push me to grind past maps I actually don't really want to play

[crystal hill]

I played the 100 most memorable maps until then

[twin mortar]

I spent my new year's eve replaying Quake II

[crystal hill]

The joy of what I am doing means I dont have to do that

If I see the 6th ribbicks slaughtermap cacoward in a row, I can just give it up and play something more fun instead

[median cloud]

Yeah I'm not sure I would have the same mindset if I were doing your personal way of experiencing doom

the pace I go through wads is relatively slow I think

Usually a map a day if the map is hard and takes multiple tries. Otherwise maybe 2-3 maps a day

[crystal hill]

I go through mine pretty quickly, yeah

The benefits of having no life, lol

I do try and finish wads, but if they are too hard/bs/boring, I dont feel bad just tossing them

I played two maps of a 36 map Doom 1 megawad, and I nearly died of boredom. No shame in quitting that imo

[median cloud]

I did breeze through Going Down iirc

But I loved playing that

[crystal hill]

I could absolutely have beaten at least episode 1, I would just rather do something more fun and engaging. Like staring at a wall

[crystal hill]

Good man, that wad is my holy grail

And an eternal reminder that Cyriak needs to make more mapd

[median cloud]

think at my current skill level that difficulty is the perfect level of keeping it fun and interesting without me needing to grind

[sharp wyvern]

Hugo called it a reboot I think

I mean 3 and 2016 are ‘reboots’

[twin mortar]

Hugo did also say the Whiplash is the first female demon

[sharp wyvern]

true

by definition it kind of is a reboot tho

[woven swallow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1482018219169677332/1496078419580944465/woof0024.png?ex=69e8931b&is=69e7419b&hm=b24bdc5e7a012210ea791862c66acc89132862b810f1c8398a232274f74ab223 .....well

[half quarry]

Hello! There is a Doom mod which has a level where you start on a corridor and on the on the far there is an elevator which takes you down to an area filled with lava with lots of enemies on the ground level and on the ledges above. Can anyone remember the mod and the level?

[halcyon willow]

You probably just described 10000 doom maps

But it might be Furnace from Sunder

[crystal hill]

an exaggeration, but the point is right

[halcyon willow]

Although that starts with a drop down iirc?

[half quarry]

No, it isn't it. Can you remember any other mods with levels similar to the one I described? Sorry, but I can't provide more information, because I had played this level a long time ago and I can't remember the mod or the level name.

[storm tapir]

was it 10 or 20+ years ago?

I wonder if it is the living end from doom 2 😛

or a map from plutonia

[half quarry]

No, I don't think it must be more than 20 years, but it was not a well-known mod (like Doom 2, Plutonia or TNT)

[median cloud]

I beat all of old sunder wooooooooh

Can still say su05 took the most tries

[median cloud]

Think I might take a break before I jump into sunder map 31 and go play some plut 2

[cloud talon]

What mod are you playing that could be so blue

[woven swallow]

fractured worlds

[median cloud]

What difficulty is it?

[woven swallow]

fractured worlds map02 is veteran tier

most maps are veteran tier in fractured worlds, but map05 and map32 are jaded tier

map01 is the only recruit tier

[median cloud]

01 has a banger midi

[woven swallow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1376790283274162206/1496420485821628446/woof0030.png?ex=69e9d1ad&is=69e8802d&hm=fb92aff75592a2c2189b1ba9972dd1cac118dfcd5f10c7cf2509df3b6c98a398 gonna try to beat cosmo map04, i'm going to slow down on trying to beat fw02 for a bit, I never had a such a massive fail this big in my runs, literally died at the ending fight

[frosty dove]

👍

[median cloud]

k I've decided for fun to rank the top 50(!!) hardest maps I've played lol

Let's see if the channel sees it as spam or not

1 SUNDER (2009): Precarious
2 SUNDER (2009): Grinder
3 SUNDER (2009): Obsidian Nightmare
4 SUNDER (2009): The Hag's Finger
5 SUNDER (2009): Hive Mother
6 Scythe 2: Afterlife II
7 Scythe 2: Death
8 SUNDER (2009): The Zealous Machine
9 SUNDER (2009): The Cage
10 Scythe: Fire and Ice
11 Combat Shock 2: Boiling Point
12 Combat Shock 2: Closure
13 Scythe 2: Whispering Winds
14 Hell Revealed: Ascending to the Stars
15 Hell Revealed: Afterlife
16 CHORD3: MAP 27
17 Scythe 2: Forgotten City
18 Alien Vendetta: Stench of Evil
19 SUNDER (2009): The Furnace
20 SUNDER (2009): Metal Descendants
21 Hell Revealed: Post Mortem
22 Combat Shock: Messatsu
23 SUNDER (2009): Hollow Icon
24 Combat Shock 2: Rapid Fire
25 SUNDER (2009): Pale Monument
26 Combat Shock: Fudoh
27 Combat Shock: Gozu
28 Alien Vendetta: Demonic Hordes
29 Hell Revealed: Hell Revealed
30 Hell Revealed: Mostly Harmful
31 Hell Revealed: City in the Clouds
32 Scythe 2: Gaia's Temple
33 Alien Vendetta: Dark Dome
34 Scythe 2: Haunting Dreams
35 Sunder (2009): The Dreaming Garden
36 Kama Sutra: Anger Management
37 Combat Shock 2: Hone Gumi
38 Hell Revealed: Last Look at Eden
39 Kama Sutra: Devastation
40 Kama Sutra: Kill Bill
41 Requiem: Procrustes' Chambers
42 Alien Vendetta: No Guts, No Glory
43 SUNDER (2009): The Burrow
44 Alien Vendetta: Nukefall
45 Hell Revealed: The Black Towers
46 Combat Shock 2: Rope or Bullet
47 Alien Vendetta: Whispering Shadows
48 Kama Sutra: The Gift from GOTT
49 Hell Revealed: Resistance is Futile
50 Going Down: Rest in Pieces

[crystal hill]

bloody hell

[median cloud]

hahaha

1 and 2 are rated as X+, 3 - 18 are X, 19 - 34 are X-, 35 - 39 are A+ and 40 - 50 are A

in terms of difficulty

[crystal hill]

ahh, Gift from GOTT led to MtPain dropping a really good line

"Gusta is Kama Sutra's real Gift from GOTT"

[median cloud]

Unfortunately that map isn't very fun to play haha

[crystal hill]

its a method one, isnt it?

[median cloud]

Think so

ya it is

[crystal hill]

very ironic name then

[woven swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/happy-tears-gif-13449471066643700197

[median cloud]

this is gonna be an absolute pain to maintain though

I wanted to made this list to see how many maps I've played harder than go 2 it

but it's further down than 50 apparently

[woven swallow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1364028572091813930/1496513616818733087/woof0034.png?ex=69ea286a&is=69e8d6ea&hm=8f155d0a536314ce72329ab0ec149c26a9bbdd5302674469abfd3f4db88db997 finally

[crystal hill]

toilet of the gods?

[woven swallow]

cosmogensis map04

my first veteran tier map

[crystal hill]

ahh

I thought the intermission screen looked like the toilet of the gods thing

[woven swallow]

completed, single segment

[median cloud]

How do you upload screenshots in here btw?

[woven swallow]

i upload my pictures on a different server or maybe send it to a bot in dms, i open the picture on a browser, copied the link and post it here

[median cloud]

Smart

[median cloud]

Imma take a lil break from tough maps

well "tough"

I'll play Plut 2 which isn't easy lol

[robust pumice]

I am now finally running through this on Ultra-Violence

[median cloud]

Doom 1?

[robust pumice]

well of course first game first

I completed the modern campaigns last year (chronological)

[median cloud]

Cool cool, Doom 1 isn't too hard on UV! U'll def manage

[crystal hill]

@median cloud regarding MtPain's Eviternity video - does that still hold up?

as in, do you think his rankings (especially difficulty) are accurate to his modern feelings?

[median cloud]

hmmmm I think so

Eviternity is about ancient aliens level in difficulty I'd say

[median cloud]

@crystal hill just finished arch-violence and I love it

[crystal hill]

excellent

[median cloud]

unmatched atmosphere

[crystal hill]

eeeeexactly

something unique (ish) it does is have no "monster noise pollution"

you normally cant hear one specific monster's idle noises over the others', but arch violence doesnt have that issue

and the arch viles placed in the walls for the last fight keep you worried one is around the corner, really to pounce at any moment

also, when you'rea young lad and you're frustrated to hell at this level, the arch viles almost sound like they're laughing when they're idle

[median cloud]

that last trap is actually pretty tough

Im not sure how to beat it properly, I won but it was chaotic

sad the map is impossible to max but I get why

mtpain giving it a C is very undeserved tho

[crystal hill]

It took me years to fully complete the map because of it

And even then, my only plan is to cheese the hell out ofit

Get zapped by an arch vile to leave the arena, then pelt them with bfg shots

[median cloud]

yeah you can def do that

[median cloud]

Pl2 is epic

[crystal hill]

its pretty alright yeah

[true urchin]

revenants are so fucking awful on some maps jesus christ

you're just kind of a slave to the mapper's whims sometimes on whether or not they feel like giving you cover and a lot of times the answer is no

there is something viscerally frustrating about dodging the same attack multiple times in a row only to get hit in the back of the head by it anyway because fuck me i guess

why they didnt put a despawn timer on revenant missiles is beyond me

[halcyon willow]

I love fighting revenants

There's a technique for getting the rockets to collide with a flat wall behind you

A corner makes it even easier

Or you can position the revs so the rockets circle back around and collide with the pack

[woven swallow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1376790283274162206/1496737698730344559/woof0035.png?ex=69eaf91b&is=69e9a79b&hm=6bd069254f54b831ff4c7ae9d7e3a3739b369c9a6e243e20f0e35acd831284cb

[crystal hill]

Doom Zero both exceeded my expectations and was a disappointment

The first half was really good, with not too much puzzling coupled with good level design and enemy placement. It stumbled after the secret levels and never really recovered

The last level was neat storywise, but otherwise it could have ended with map 29 for a better ending

[storm tapir]

If they are always hitting you in the back use iddqd and focus on the projectile after you dodged it to see how it moves

That way you know where not to move in a way that sets you up for bonks

[crystal hill]

its a good idea to keep that projectile in mind, and learn how to make it hit a wall

or, make it not hit you for long enough to end the fight, then safely take it somewhere where it can hit a wall

[wintry copper]

I always thought Doom Zero was a interquel between Doom 1 and 2

seems like it's a "what if Doom II came out in 1995" kinda deal though I don't mind that

[crystal hill]

It seems to me like its making direct references to Doom 2016

So if anything, it would be a sequel to Doom 64

[wintry copper]

ah

interesting, so that'd make it "what if id made Doom III in the 90s"

[crystal hill]

maybe?

[wintry copper]

wish it had more monsters or some new weapons with that angle in mind

ah well

[crystal hill]

The alpha lost soul is annoying enough for me

[median cloud]

Alpha lost soul?

[crystal hill]

yeah, it shows up in the last 10 maps

it spits out caco projectiles really bloody quickly

[median cloud]

Ah in Doom Zero?

[wintry copper]

oh had no idea Doom Zero actually had new enemies

[crystal hill]

??

[wintry copper]

well that's a little disappointing

[crystal hill]

did you play through it all the way??

[storm tapir]

At least they arent the original hitscan menaces

The world needs an alpha lost soul pain elemental

[median cloud]

Not me if that was for me

[crystal hill]

I know you didn't

but Zed was talking about it like he'd played it all the way

[crystal hill]

funny you say that, because they're dehacked SS, they still drop bullets

[storm tapir]

Those poor guys always get replaced with the most annoying mobs dont they lol

[crystal hill]

well, they're Nazis, so I don't sympathise

besides, they're the most obvious enemy to dehack. Other than commander keens, maybe

[wintry copper]

no, only like the first 3-4 or so levels, sorry for the confusion

so not far enough to encounter any new enemies

also just started The Darkening II, I dig it though the ammo deprivation is a bit much at times

[crystal hill]

I think it was fine

I played better stuff from 2000 though

[wintry copper]

think I'll stick to the classics for a bit as I'm halfway through Alien Vendetta already

[wintry copper]

yeah Darkening II does hit but not quite as hard as it should, love the custom texture set a lot though

[crystal hill]

thats quite nice, yeah

[wintry copper]

what to play after I beat it and AV tho

guess there's 2002ADO and the Hell Revealeds

[crystal hill]

the chord series is pretty cool

[wintry copper]

so I've heard

I'm just looking for more stuff from the early 2000s to play

[sharp wyvern]

i like the demon witch shes like IoS but Better

[crystal hill]

very true

[sharp wyvern]

honestly thats more how i felt about legacy of rust

[crystal hill]

I wish killing her was the final level

[sharp wyvern]

kind of true but also the sarcophagus was cool to see so i dont mind a lil epilogue level

honestly if anything my issue with it is that it's just shoehorned in for the title

doom 2016 prequel but the only prequel element is like the very very end

[crystal hill]

It ties it into Doom 2016 when the rest of it is very different

and frankly, doom doesn't exactly do epilogue levels normally

[boreal brook]

Guys please som1 help me with e1m6 and e1m7 in SharePlay (Doom 1) Playstation

[sharp wyvern]

I don’t mind that though I enjoyed it

[crystal hill]

I was disappointed

[sharp wyvern]

Yeah I don’t like how forced the Zero part of Zero is

[sharp wyvern]

If the text screen was between 29 and 30 (not doable I know) it’d be better

Cause then you know it’s an epilogue

[crystal hill]

maybe

it'd set expectations

the queen fight was fine, but it wasn't amazing, so I expected a bigger finale of some kind

[wintry copper]

yeah if anything that's now the closest we'll ever get to an official classic Doom III

shame it's only 2 episodes and the maps are so huge

[crystal hill]

plutonia in the corner:

[sharp wyvern]

I like the huge maps tbh

[sharp wyvern]

Plutonia is cool and better than doom II but if I was gonna call something the meaningless designation of a classic doom III I’d call LoR that

[crystal hill]

LoR can be the Doom 4

[sharp wyvern]

Hm

[crystal hill]

huge maps are more a staple of community wads

[sharp wyvern]

yeah but it adds variety to the official wads now :p

[crystal hill]

so someone just playing the "official" wads would be a bit out of their depth with them

[sharp wyvern]

would be boring if every single official expansion had similar level design

[crystal hill]

just like plutonia

[sharp wyvern]

I don’t think LoR is any harder than Plutonia tbh

[sharp wyvern]

yea but Plutonia doesn’t add anything

[crystal hill]

I feel like they all have distinctive level designs

[crystal hill]

in terms of big maps, its harder/more gruelling

[sharp wyvern]

Yeah but Plutonia has harder encounters

[crystal hill]

In shorter levels

[sharp wyvern]

Also most players will do at least one mid level save

[crystal hill]

which is distinct from Doom 2 and even 1

[sharp wyvern]

Yeah like TNT’s distinct level design of Bad

[crystal hill]

TNT and the Master Levels, as much as I have to say about them, are pretty distinct from Plutonia, Doom 2, even No Rest for the Living

[sharp wyvern]

I agree

[crystal hill]

TNT is also the most atmospheric of the Doom expansions

I dont give it much credit for that, but other people are more into that

[sharp wyvern]

Welllll

[boreal brook]

Guys please som1 help me with e1m6 and e1m7 in SharePlay (Doom 1) Playstation

[sharp wyvern]

Maybe back when it was just final doom

[sharp wyvern]

what r u struggling with

[crystal hill]

what would you say is more atmospheric?

argh

I need to get through these bloody cacowards so I can play it already

but because it released in 2024, I have no doubt I'm not getting to it this year

[storm tapir]

I am not afraid of saying it, although it looks horrible above 320x200 so good luck if you don't play on that + a CRT shader lol

[crystal hill]

not just visually, music wise

[livid light]

ye tnt music is pretty good, funny thing is the music had no names until three guys edited the doom wiki and just made some up, then l.a. sieben made them official

[sharp wyvern]

idk if tnt has the most atmospheric music :p

[livid light]

not really atmospheric but its still good

[wintry copper]

it is

[crystal hill]

I'd say it is

Stuff like Infinite, More, Death's Bells etc are really cool

[wintry copper]

also speaking of music, I always thought Mist Ache (which plays in one of Skulltag's custom MP maps, which is where I first heard it) was some sort of community track until last year when I learned it's from ROTT

it fits Doom so well that it's weird to think it's actually from a unrelated game

[storm tapir]

So doom 1 in that case?

[sharp wyvern]

I’d probably give it to Doom PSX or Legacy of Rust

[crystal hill]

oh no

[sharp wyvern]

Not counting 64 because ummm I don’t count it 💖

[livid light]

ye, but others like sadistic are just rock or metal or however ya call it, still cool but not really atmospheric

[sharp wyvern]

Yeah idk if I’d say it’s atmospheric

[storm tapir]

Oh i didnt even think of including d64/psx lol

[crystal hill]

Doom PSX and 64 are atmospheric in the same way sitting in an empty room with the occasional ambience is

[crystal hill]

ok?

there's atmospheric stuff in there

More so in TNT than Doom 1 or 2

[storm tapir]

Well my immersion breaks when am hearing a bee

[sharp wyvern]

Well yeah

They contribute to the atmosphere

[crystal hill]

the tracks all blends together in my head

[sharp wyvern]

The first song of 64/Crystalline Chaos from 64 are so good

[crystal hill]

its all one sludge pile of droning noises

[sharp wyvern]

“atmospheric” fans when they hear real atmosphere

[crystal hill]

if doom 64 has real atmosphere, I don't want it

[livid light]

maybe, but i feel like 64 or psx is a lot more atmospheric cause the music is supposed to feel like you’re in the map with doomguy

[crystal hill]

if I wanted to fall asleep, I'd go to bed

[storm tapir]

Yeah my 2nd was Doom 1 because of stuff like the imps song, not d64 because I cant even tell any song apart from the bee song

Even when you are doing a boss map the song is acting like you are in a horrifying cave

[sharp wyvern]

Legacy of Rust’s music is probably the best of classic doom idk abt most atmospheric

Though LoR gets a bit more.. not emotional but like somber with some of its songs

Maybe the Buckethead ost for Sigil or the midi ost for Sigil 2 are contenders

I wish there was a doom expansion that did both horror and action, the final expansion for Quake II has Aubrey Hodges’ music for exploration and then HUGE fights/bossfights have Sonic Mayhem over it and it goes so ridiculously hard

A doom expansion with hodges for some levels and price for others would be great

[median cloud]

Kama Sutra map 28 is a royal pain in the ass

[storm tapir]

Not as much as map30

[crystal hill]

thats not her ass

[storm tapir]

Oh you meant difficulty wise, nvm

[median cloud]

okayyy I beat kama sutra

fun

map 28 and 29 were meh

[crystal hill]

kama sutra is a great example of a mixed bag wad

lots of fine, good, great, bad, and terrible maps

[median cloud]

I still like it a lot

[true urchin]

well i know how to do that USUALLY but sometimes revenants show up in absolutely terrible spots where you dont get a good wall for ages

[crystal hill]

that's true

another good idea is to use demons as living walls, before or after the rev is dead

[median cloud]

My skill has improved

Just beat go 4 it and it wasnt a huge challenge at all

[crystal hill]

well done. after sunder, I imagine plut 2 isnt very hard at all

[median cloud]

Yeah its been a breeze a bit

tho the hardest map 20 still has to come

[lost ocean]

Just bought doom

Um

Everything's blue

Except the logo and doomguy

And everything's upside down

I think I messed up

[sharp wyvern]

wut

[lost ocean]

Can't send images

[livid light]

#general message

[lapis pewter]

Guys do you guys believe Brutal Doom is canon

[sharp wyvern]

I’m gonna let you take a humongous guess

[hollow tree]

not talking about Brutal Doom specifically, but I actually think the extermination day map pack is my favorite retelling/reboot of the classic doom story so far.

like Doom 3 is probably my 2nd favorite, but I really liked how Eday basically retold Doom and Doom II combined into a logical story with more modern map design

[crystal hill]

Brutal Doom is a gameplay wad, so I dont see how it is or isnt canon

The Hell on Earth starter pack though, thats canon to me because I love it

[sharp wyvern]

the only fan wad i headcanon into the story proper is Doom Zero

[median cloud]

@crystal hill I might've asked this before but what map do you consider having the pinnacle of combat gameplay

[crystal hill]

Black Ice from Plut 2 is excellent, as are Demonokogy and Gladiator for Going Down

Its hard to pick an absolute favourite

[median cloud]

Hmm I didn't like Demonology much in terms of combat, felt like I had to play it very very careful

I agree with Black Ice and Gladiator however

A lot of going down maps excell in combat

[crystal hill]

Thats exactly what I liked about it

Rationing supplies carefully was fun for me, who does that without being asked

IC2005 has very notable combat, but in part due to weapon placement

I've never seen a map that introduces weapons as well as it

[median cloud]

Ah then we have very different criteria for fun combat haha, I can't remember gladiator or Black Ice being particularly rationaing oriënted.
You might like procrustes chambers from requiem them or, more famously, the mucus flow

[crystal hill]

Well, demonology is a very different map I like for different reasons, but still think has great combat

I did not like procrustes chambers, if thats the one I am thinking of. Too brutal, even for me

The mucus flow is a map I really want to beat some day. Its on my list

[median cloud]

It's a very barren map but it's doable, I maxed it some time ago but you need to be very careful with ammo

Basically need to route the entire map

I've personally enjoyed kama sutra a lot for combat

Dog Eat Dog was amazing in this aspect

[crystal hill]

Yeah, it'll take a while. Hence why I never had the time or will to do it

[crystal hill]

Oh yeah, it has some of Gusta's best work in there alongside his worst

And the less said about method the better

[median cloud]

Yeah it's too bad his maps drag down the quality of the pack so much

his maps range from ok to ugh

Gusta is an amazing mapper though

Knows how to make fun maps

[crystal hill]

Gusta has some questionable ones as well

Miss Sporty is cute but I dont enjoy teleporting cyberdemons up my ass

[median cloud]

Oh I love Miss Sporty

I'm reaching a 3 map gusta streak in pl2 as well now

[crystal hill]

His maps in pl2 are basically spotless

Kama sutra has stuff like king arena, devastation and some others I dont remember too well as being sub par

[median cloud]

I like both of those :<

[crystal hill]

Well, hey, its okay to be wrong have differing opinions

[median cloud]

hahaha

[crystal hill]

For example, I don't love scythe 2 despite it being the most popular thing in the community since the super shotgun

I might even prefer the original

[median cloud]

It's honestly really good

Maybe you're turned off by the difficulty near the end?

It gets pretty tough icl

[crystal hill]

Even before then

The maps dont grab me like they do everyone else

[median cloud]

I guess it's a pioneer with episodic gameplay and just overall high quality maps

AV also has some continuinity but less

Maybe you might think Eviternity is overhyped as well then who knows

[crystal hill]

Unlikely. Scythe 2 and to a lesser extent 1 are the only popular megawads I dont really enjoy

AV should be rougher than Scythe 2 but I enjoy it a lot more

[median cloud]

rougher in terms of quality or difficulty?

[crystal hill]

Quality

Its older, and a community project

[median cloud]

Tbf av just has good quality overall

though enjoy it less than scythe 2

[crystal hill]

Scythe 2 is good as well

But I much prefer Alien Vendetta

One is very high up on my list of favourites while another just isnt on it, lol

oh yeah - after work today, I'm gonna finally start Eviternity

[median cloud]

Ohhh I'm hyped for that

Hope u get some maps in

The early ones aren't super long so if you're in the mood you can knock out a couple today

I'm gonna continue my pl2 playthrough which I've been enjoying a lot

I sorta need to play Speed of Doom next but I'm not really looking forward to that

[sharp wyvern]

Oh Eviternity is great

[median cloud]

Speed of Doom and Hell Revealed 2 are the only 2 wads I'm missing from the classic hard ones

I won't play HR2 but I do feel a bit compelled to finish SOD

[crystal hill]

Oh yes, I'm going to be spending a lot of time this weekend just playing dookm

[crystal hill]

really? I think it's excellent

joshy and darkwave play off each other very very well

[median cloud]

Yeah I think I've just played it so often but always quit after a bit due to not really finishing mappacks back then

but it does mean I'm kinda tired of the maps

The furthest I've gone in SOD is map 23 and I've played the first 16 maps like a looot of times

[crystal hill]

I guess you could skip em this time

[median cloud]

Nahhhh I'll manage hahah

Just whining a bit

Looking more forward to finishing pl2 tho!

[crystal hill]

have fun

[full warren]

Anyone know how to deal with doom 1993 throwing in random cyber demons in E4 on nightmare? It's annoying when I wanna just skip them, but I want 100% kills

[crystal hill]

@median cloud Map 1 of Eviternity is kind of unimpressive

it's fine and all, doesn't do much wrong (except making me use the pistol for a bit too long), it has some nice MBF features, but I didn't feel much while playing it

also possibly a bad omen - the very beginning of the map reminds me of Scythe 2's map 1

[median cloud]

hmm I find it a solid map 01

[crystal hill]

I have played many better ones in my favourite wads

That being said, there's still 31 maps to go, my opinion can certainly change

Map 2 is quite a bit better

it flows better, thanks to the early shotgun (though the hell knights slow it down a bit) and the flooded cave aesthetic is more pleasant

[median cloud]

@crystal hill Plutonia 2's Predatorium was a tough cookie

good map, first gusta joint I think

[crystal hill]

he's had a few maps in Plut 2 before that

[median cloud]

ah yeah the early maps are of his

[sharp wyvern]

I just save my plasma for them tbh

[crystal hill]

Good shout

[quartz berry]

I like the grandpa game, but the emo one is lowk better. These 2 (5 ish?) still peak tho

[crystal hill]

??

[livid light]

wut

[quartz berry]

It's what I think of the game

[quartz berry]

My option on the game

[livid light]

ooh wait are you saying you prefer nudoom to classic doom? i didnt understand at first

[quartz berry]

Yeah, specifically 3

[crystal hill]

Its a bit hard to decipher zoomer speak

[quartz berry]

Oh zoomer speak would be a lot worse

There woukd be a good few 67s and tuffs in there

[crystal hill]

Right

[median cloud]

On average plutonia 2 might be the hardest pack out of all the classic ones

HR, Scythe 2, AV have some relatively easy maps early on

While pl2 isnt as hard as those hardest maps its very consistent

[sonic terrace]

@shut raft i saw your horror hotel wad in doom world

im playing it right now

[shut raft]

Oh cool

Let me know what you think

[sonic terrace]

im still playing it

@shut raft i finished it

i loved the wad, it reminded me of 1994 wads

it gave feeling of nostalgia

but dont you think the ammo is a bit scarce?

im out here trying to save ammo like its the last bottle of water on earth

[shut raft]

I was too afraid of making it too easy so I may have overcorrected on ammo

💔

Theres plenty of rockets In the final fight if somehow someone didn't get the bfg in the dead center of the room

[median cloud]

@crystal hill just finished Lurking Fear and wow what a map

[sonic terrace]

its in plain sight how do they not see that?

[halcyon willow]

Never underestimate the player's ability to miss seemingly obvious things

[sonic terrace]

i just found out that the incinerator stun locks the archvile and pretty much anyting else

its my favorite archvile killing tool now

[robust pumice]

Omg I’m stuck on E2M2 forever… can’t get the quick exits, wtf am I missing.

I WANT OUT OF THIS TORTURE CHAMBER!!!

Is there a bridge I can make to escape?