classic-doom

[median cloud]

You mean The Chasm? MAP 24? Yeah imo that's the second hardest one to pistol start haha

[stoic dock]

I beat doom 2 on UV without pistol start and barrels o fun and chasm still caused duress lol

[crystal hill]

finally back from my holiday, which means I can go back to binging classic doom

[woven swallow]

Welcome back Mr McGee

[crystal hill]

I'm glad I left off in the middle of Doom 404. It's not my favourite wad ever, far from it, but it's easy enough to get me back in the groove of things

[median cloud]

I'm going through Alien Vendetta right now

But the stretch of 16-19 is being a bit bleh to go through

Seems to be a trend to be the weakest part of a mappack

[crystal hill]

not a bad theory

its right after the secret maps, which are often the most memorable ones. So the level designers might not put their best stuff in there

[median cloud]

Tbf Lake Poison is a grand map but it was so exhausting

I'm at 19 right now which is before the famous Misri Halek

[crystal hill]

it's not TOO bad

[median cloud]

But I know from memory that Misri Halek is also a long map

[crystal hill]

It took me some time to get used to it, but I've grown fonder of lake poison over time

[median cloud]

It's a great one but it's a bit exhausting to go through

[crystal hill]

hmm, you're right. AV has a lot of long maps I really don't mind

very unusal for me

and its also a "classic" era megawad which I'm also not fond of often

[median cloud]

I think I don't mind them on their own but playing them after eachother gets tiring

Going Down didn't have this issue with me

[crystal hill]

that's why you play two wads at once, friend

[median cloud]

Neither did ancient aliens

[crystal hill]

one long map and two or three shorter ones

[median cloud]

Yeah but the other one I'm playing is Combat Shock 2 haha

[crystal hill]

Oh christ

tone down the masochism, lol

[crystal hill]

well, thats because Going Down is the heir to the Plutonia throne

its densely packed with monsters but the levels are overall quite short

Ancient Aliens has some sprawly maps, but they aren't nearly as tough on average as the AV ones. There's also the sense of adventure and exploration to keep you going

[median cloud]

Hmm I don't think in terms of difficulty they differ too much

[crystal hill]

really?

[median cloud]

Ancient Aliens has more combat set pieces in a way that it pushes traps on you that you need to solve

[crystal hill]

I consider Ancient Aliens a distinct step down from Alien Vendetta difficulty wise

[median cloud]

While AV is just a long stretch

I think they're close

I think AV is about the same difficulty as going down but for different reasons

[crystal hill]

AV is far more liable to set a dozen arch viles or a few cybers on you without mercy than AA or Going Down

and its levels are far longer than both, which gives the player more chances to mess up

With AA, if you figure out the "puzzle", or if you look it up, it helps tremendously, far more than in AV

[median cloud]

Nukefall with that cyber in the middle was a horrible experience I agree

I guess you’re right since av does have a couple of hard maps

[crystal hill]

I'm going by the Scythe 1 principle

a few hard maps will skyrocket a wad in difficulty in my eyes

AV for the most part is managable, but ramps up hard near the end

[median cloud]

Tbh you have 25,26,27,32

Lake poison and overwhelming odds are also a bit harder than your average map

Av definitely has its hard maps

[crystal hill]

Map 32, No Guts No Glory, is hella stressful

you need to fight off the demons while completely besieged, and THEN you go into another arena that can insta kill you with cybers close by

Ancient Aliens doesn't really have anything comparable in difficulty to just that

maaaaaybe map 28, at a stretch

[median cloud]

Nah you’re right

[wintry copper]

I hope AV won't disappoint me the same way MM2 kinda did

currently like 8 levels in, so far I do like it

[crystal hill]

AV is my favourite classic era megawad, and its not really close

[wintry copper]

so far no arguments there

I love the biggest megawads of the 90s but it really kinda is a "never meet your heroes" situation with those 😄

speaking of I just finished the first episode of The Darkening, kinda want to put it above both of the Memento Moris bc the level design is very straightforward and free of bullshit

[crystal hill]

we are in agreement there

that was my favourite wad of 1999

[wintry copper]

yea it's in my top 10 of the 90s for sure

[crystal hill]

considering the low quality level of the 90s, it might get into my top 10 as well

[wintry copper]

I distinctly remember playing it back when I was a kid, at least the start of one of the early levels looks familiar

excited to see what episode 2 has in store, shame there never was a 3rd episode it seems

[crystal hill]

Darkening 2 didn't get 1st or 2nd place on my list of Y2K wads, but to be fair to it, it had really tough competition

Chord 3 is stellar and Atomic Tomb is proto Alien Vendetta from one of my favourite mappers from that project

[wintry copper]

nice

the Chord WADs are also on my list

[crystal hill]

they are all very good, minus NG

That one has similar gameplay, minus the beginning room having T.E.E.T.H platforms that take 2 years to reach you and then take you up. I hate when wads waste my time like that

[median cloud]

@crystal hill I really thought Misri Halek ended in climbing a lava mountain at the end

Any idea what map I’m thinking of instead?

[crystal hill]

I don't think so

Misri has some lava sections, and you do climb the side of a mountain with some lava surrounding you

[median cloud]

Yeah I just finished it

Must be thinking of some other egyptian temple map then but god knows which one

[crystal hill]

my memory isnt the best at times, let alone after a long break

I can see now why I stopped playing doom even before my holiday. The 2018 wads are kinda mid

Golden Souls 2 is a massive exception of course, and I reckon Preacher and Man on the Moon will be good, at least, but still. I expected more/better

[willow trail]

Who love Classic doom ?

Im

[crystal hill]

nope, it sucks

[icy umbra]

Classic whats that? Is it some type of food

[median cloud]

3 more levels of alien vendetta to go and Im doneeee

I might need a new break wad haha

[mellow matrix]

the final stretch of AV is a bear, yeah. Good levels but they ask a lot from the player.
You checked out Perdition's Gate Resurgence? We're playing it in the DWMC rn and it's full of short, punchy levels.

[true urchin]

chat i fucked up and wiped all my doom files when switching OSs, need some mod-friendly mapset recommendations please

[median cloud]

Whats DWMC? And yeah Im at 28 right now but Im getting tired

[mellow matrix]

DoomWorld Megawad Club. DoomWorld forum topic where we all play a WAD over the course of a month. 1 level per day. Usually 32 map megawads but sometimes we'll do multiple smaller wads together.

[median cloud]

Sounds cool

[native anchor]

You all pick either Chocolate Doom or Crispy Doom?

I mainly go with Chocolate because I wanna play just Doom.

Like, just totally normal Doom. Most vanilla way possible.

And I figured, since I prefer vanilla Doom 3 (Like everyone else), then I might as well just play Chocolate Doom so it fits.

Though there is still Doom 64 to consider, since there's only the Kex release on PC.

So I guess I might as well play that on Switch 2, since you'll play on a controller there which is how Doom 64 was originally played back then.

[brisk crypt]

Am I crazy or isn't there an unofficial but really closely related thing where it says DOOM 1 (and DOOM 2 assuming that it takes place right after) takes place in that universe's 2020-something?

Oh, yeah, the SNES manual.

I think it's charming that such a crazy sci-fi series could take place in such a near (now past) future.

[native anchor]

Well we do also have Doom 2016 taking place around 2152 or something. So it could be by the point, assuming Classic Doom and Doom 2016 are in the same universe, that Doomguy would become a "historical legend".

[brisk crypt]

The original DOOMs are in a seperate universe. It's confirmed I think.

[median cloud]

I was a chocolate doom user but switched to crispy because I missed the automap having more definitions and a level tracker

I usually played to max levels, i.e. all secrets and kills before I exit. And doing this in chocolate doom was just a major pain

[ripe cloak]

No they’re not

DOOM, TFC, DOOM II, TNT, Plutonia, NRFTL, LOR, and DOOM 64 are all fully canon to the lore of the modern games

[sharp wyvern]

yeah

well Doom, TFC, Doom II, NRFTL and 64 are anyway, I think Hugo doesn't really care about the rest of them unfortunately :/

[ripe cloak]

Final DOOM isn’t canon?

[sharp wyvern]

i'm of the opinion everything is canon

but whether final doom counts is a topic of debate among people and even the people in charge of the series

but i would consider it canon personally since nothing says it didn't happen and it was in the new doom + doom ii rerelease

[wind spade]

plutonia's probably canon, it's pretty infamous

[twin mortar]

TNT better imo 😌

[bitter shoal]

The events of the two games aren't acknowledged in modern materials AFAIK, though I never really delved into the datalogs of 2016 or Eternal.

they're like Star Wars expanded universe material where they are side stories that happened in other places and can be referenced in more mainstream stuff but hadn't yet

[ripe cloak]

2016 never goes against it

[ripe cloak]

Yeah I’m with you. TNT can be annoying, but it’s Map03 and I’m on my 12th try on HMP for Plutonia

[long isle]

I believe that original DOOM is in the top three for best graphics in the DOOM series

[median cloud]

TNT is more atmospheric and gets better the more you play, just annoying to know where to go at times

Plutonia is tougher and more of a challenge but can be more exhausting because of it

Though on a per level basis I rate plutonia higher than tnt despite enjoying tnt more

[brisk crypt]

It's the same Doomguy but different universes. That's why the humans in the modern series act like they've never seen demons before.

It'd be really weird if they had a hell invasion occur and never mentioned it during the events of Eternal.

I think I remember it being said by Hugo but idk(fa)

[crystal hill]

play it via dos then

[crystal hill]

in terms of how they look, nah. In terms of how well they function, maybe

[median cloud]

I guess original doom has the best looking maps out of the official expansions?

Well the original 4 that is

[crystal hill]

well, he said the series

[median cloud]

NRFTL, Sigil, LoR definitely blow it out of the water

[crystal hill]

So I figure he's counting the nudooms

[median cloud]

Wonder if it's weird how I have 0 interest in new dooms

Finished Doom 3 once, Finished Doom 2016 once and never even finished Doom Eternal

[ripe cloak]

Aaahhh ok

[median cloud]

Never even played beyond that

[ripe cloak]

You mixed me up

[crystal hill]

they've very different games

[ripe cloak]

No that’s fair, they’re completely different games

[crystal hill]

I am very fond of 2016 and Eternal (more so than the classics, standalone, actually)

[median cloud]

I thought you were a classic head

[crystal hill]

I'm a classic wad head

[crystal hill]

What I meant by this statement is, I much prefer Doom 2016 and Eternal vs just Doom 1 and Doom 2

but if you include custom wads/mappacks in Doom 1/2, then they in turn blow the nudooms out of the water for me

the mappacks give classic doom a lasting appeal that 2016 and Eternal just do not have for me

[median cloud]

ah yeah that makes sense

thank god ID let Doom evolve with its community

[crystal hill]

I played Doom 2016 a year or so ago, I loved it, and I moved on

I played Doom 1 Episode 3 one day, it was a bit crap

I have been playing classic doom since that day, non stop, for 16 months straight

[median cloud]

Yeah that makes sense Doom 1 alone and especially E3 is meh

[crystal hill]

it's not just about how good the maps are (but some certainly are), it's the variety, especially in later cacoward years

[native anchor]

Nah. I’m on Linux Mint.

[crystal hill]

Isn't there a linux version of doom?

the one most source ports are based on?

[crystal hill]

yeah, replaying it recently on Kex was a bit of a bore

[median cloud]

thankfully knowing it well you can breeze through it in 45 minutes

[crystal hill]

Doom 1 and 2 standalone aren't bad, I've just experienced heaven in the form of custom wads, and so cant easily go back

[median cloud]

I have them both rated as C+ on quality rating

But it seems due to wads being relatively long and my ratings being the actual average most wads fall between C - B

[crystal hill]

subjectively, I like Doom 2 more. Objectively, I think Doom 1 is overall better designed

C+ seems about where I'd put both as well

[median cloud]

Going Down has a B+ while Master levels a C- when in reality Going Down would be an A and Master levels a D

Just the nature of averaging mappacks and taking that value

[crystal hill]

but its hard to say for sure when I dont use grades, only tiers/lists

[median cloud]

maybe I should use smaller grade differences for an average rank

I also prefer Doom 2 over Doom 1 btw

[crystal hill]

Hmm

[wind spade]

Doom 1's biggest problem is how repetitive it gets due to the low enemy variety

[crystal hill]

I feel like every grade thats given, F, D, C, B, A, S, etc, has to have some kind of specific criteria attached

so to get a C, a wad needs X Y and Z

wads that just barely qualify for that get C-, and those that overqualify get C+

[median cloud]

at the moment the grade just calculates all the maps I've given, changes it to a number. Takes the average number and matches that with the grade

[crystal hill]

couldn't agree more. Some wads handle it better than others, like Hadron Episode 1 and Sigil, but most arent great at it

[livid light]

dave taylor made a linux version of doom, and then someone experimented it and ported it back to windows, he called it dosdoom and later it was used as the basis for boom, which led to most ports
dosdoom was also later turned into edge

[jovial wing]

do yall have a favorite keycard or skull key

[crystal hill]

why would we?

[little oar]

I like the blue ones :)

[livid light]

i like the red key cause its the first one you see in e1m2

[jovial wing]

in the same vein that ppl have favorite forks and spoons and that kind of stuff

[jovial wing]

same blue is my fav color

[little oar]

Blue rules

[crystal hill]

that seems a little more normal, but still weird

[jovial wing]

must be a neurodivergent thing idk

[crystal hill]

maybe

[brisk crypt]

Classic? Modern? Bitch it's all DOOM.

[crystal hill]

but it's very different kinds of Doom

[bitter shoal]

Hell Revealed Map 11 has my favorite blue keycard

[median cloud]

Is that the big arena with the pinkies revs barons and a cyber?

[bitter shoal]

It has a slaughtermap arena like what you describe but the blue key isn't in it

[median cloud]

Which is the blue key then

[glass bone]

Standard red

Is udb not compatible with the kex ports?

[livid light]

you can use it but you need to change the command line parameters, just delete the "%F" and it should work https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1470810928474751051/1483954550988738721/image.png?ex=69bc77df&is=69bb265f&hm=8559ba8aeada16fa0e1e4a98e2db5b381655609a69de77f5a3e24d2826f9ea84&

only drawback is now you need to save map every time to test changes

[sharp wyvern]

spider mastermind just never hit the same in the modern era

[true urchin]

why does every map i play have this obsession with teleporting/spawning in demons directly behind you in nearly every encounter

usually hitscanners

like yeah ok i get that spawning mobs all around you can make some fights more dynamic and challenging etc etc great cool that's fine

but it keeps fucking happening over and over

i cant tell how much of this is just me not playing very good maps

[vestal flax]

I seem to remember you asking this question before a while back lol
or at least I think it was you

[true urchin]

if ive ever asked this before then i have no memory of it

[vestal flax]

ah right you were complaining about plutonia because the maps "teleported chaingunners on top of you"

[bitter shoal]

I think it was a different earlyish WAD

I am actually struggling to remember any teleporting Chaingunners from Plutonia, they managed to make them so dangerous just from raw placement lol

[true urchin]

i think i remember that, it was hell revealed actually

which is uh

truly just one of the mapsets of all time

idk i guess it really boils down to traps that you can't react to before they kill you frustrate me immensely

and teleporting chaingunners or chaingunners behind hidden walls that open up out of nowhere make up like

90% of that kind of trap

that feeling of "this trap is impossible to survive unless you have already died to it and know it's there"

[median cloud]

I think that's mostly older maps faling for this stuff. Unfortunately people weren't as advanced with combat back and just created some artificial difficulty this way. Been playing through alien vendetta now and there are just a bunch of maps I die on because I didn't know what was coming and didn't have time to react

Meanwhile ancient aliens also springs traps on you but does it in a way you have enough time to solve it

[median cloud]

Raaaaaaaaah I hate end of the level cyberdemons

[median cloud]

Alright I finished Alien Vendetta

epic

[crystal hill]

nice

[median cloud]

End was bit exhausting

[true urchin]

yeah fair enough

30 years of making maps you probably learn how to better fine tune an encounter

[true urchin]

ancient aliens has some brilliant level design but unfortunately it's too intense for me to play for very long

[median cloud]

It's a step up in difficulty compared to the official mappacks that's true.
If you want something easier you could look towards Nostalgia, Auger Zenith or Icarus

[wary sun]

finally on pc so im trying my house.wad

using the doom1 + doom 2 bundle

[median cloud]

@crystal hill chord3 is hard man

[crystal hill]

yeah

that's why I like it, lol

it's a puzzle - you need to analyse each fight and see how best to play it

it doesnt have you wandering around a massive empty level trying to find where you need to go, it doesn't ambush you with no hope of survival. Even if you die, it won't take too long to get back to where you were

interestingly, I played a wad from the 90s with malcolm sailor's contributions in it, and I hated basically all his maps

I really enjoy the chord series and think it's semi revolutionary for the time, but none of that competence of design is on display in that other wad

[wary sun]

nevermind

i cant get myhouse running even with uzdoom

if only vedge was alive to help me 🙁

[crystal hill]

might work better with GZDoom

thats what it was made for

[wary sun]

gz doom has ai generated code now

im not touching that

[crystal hill]

use an older version

[wary sun]

...ehhhhh

[crystal hill]

Then I guess you aren't playing myhouse then

[livid light]

what happens? does the game not load or does it just default to doom 2?
maybe also try to use a launcher as well like zdl, makes things easier

[wary sun]

alo deathclaws are so cute

[median cloud]

It's legit the hardest map I've played up until now lol

Maybe I'm making it too hard on myself idk

[crystal hill]

hmm

If you don't know how to play it, I could see it being brutally hard

but once you DO know, it becomes managable

[median cloud]

having to punch like 4 revenants to death at the start

no armor

is tough

[bitter shoal]

nah, I'd win

[crystal hill]

you mean the ones in the starting room?

make em infight with the barons

if you mean the ones in the red corridor... I dunno, git gud

[median cloud]

ya but the chaingunners shoot at u

[crystal hill]

from the other side of the room

where the chaingunners dont have line of sight

[median cloud]

where the archvile can zap u? lol

[crystal hill]

it also doesnt have a line of sight

[median cloud]

wut

ok yeah I know what u mean

I mean it's manageable but then u take one shot and ur fucked

[crystal hill]

you need to clear that area out first, but the barons and revs cant get in there

[median cloud]

and there are sooo many cacos I dont have the ammo for them

[crystal hill]

Health is quite tight, but not that tight

[median cloud]

idk I've died like 30 times here

I guess I suck at this type of combat

[crystal hill]

they're supposed to draw you out into the other room

[median cloud]

Lowkey harder than all of alien vendetta, scythe, etc

[crystal hill]

naaaaaaaah

absolutely not

[median cloud]

the one with imps and revs?

[crystal hill]

Yeah

[median cloud]

then what lol

[crystal hill]

so you either need to kill them, running around to not get cornered, or run into the other room for more space

or try and fight in both at once

it's a really well designed level, especially for being older than I am

[median cloud]

idk how to survive the archvile and caco spawning

[crystal hill]

Well, the advice I gave is what I do

[median cloud]

is the archvile that spawns in after pushing the switch stuck there?

Because I try to kill him first so he doesn't revive half the lobby but by the time hes dead the cacos have swarmed me and I cant escape

[crystal hill]

I dont remember

[median cloud]

Well I tested he can walk out

There are like 3 cacos that spawn and block ur exit dman

I just hate Tyson combat

[crystal hill]

Well, I love it

Vanguard raised me right

[median cloud]

Im not kidding this is the hardest map Ive played until now lol

Im at like 30-40 tries

[crystal hill]

surely not?

You beat all of Scythe 2, right?

[median cloud]

theres always like one rev ball that hits me and then its gg

[median cloud]

Yeah and Im telling u it took me less effort to beat all of scythe 2

tho tbf I did beat scythe 2 on dsda doom with 120 fps and hd

[crystal hill]

maybe I have an advantage from playing it in uzdoom without infinitely tall monsters

[median cloud]

and chord3 im playing 35 fps on crispy doom with like low graphics

[crystal hill]

Still, it doesn't seem like it should cause you this much grief

[median cloud]

I suck at fist combat

if I fist a revenant he always sneaks like a shot in

and then im 1 hp

[crystal hill]

hope your girlfriend doesn't mind that

you know, that joke sounded better in my head

[crystal hill]

there's a good youtube guide out there for fighting revenants

[median cloud]

lol

[median cloud]

okay I finished it

[crystal hill]

👏

did you like the ambush at the very end?

[median cloud]

I was so nervous at that point but it was fine

Once I killed the arch at the caco trap I beat the level

Died like 30 times before that lol

[crystal hill]

that fight taught me the importance of infighting arch vile and sparing enemies around them

[median cloud]

Ah yeah I winged that

I thought u meant the barons

[crystal hill]

the barons were fine

the cyberdemon after them was not, because my nerves were shot, but its a fine one overall

[crystal hill]

nicely done

[halcyon willow]

I'm not trying to "skill issue" this comment, but a lot of it is down to overall experience and skill. The reaction times of very good doom players (nevanos, nirvana, dubzz, no reason etc) is extreme comapred to even myself, and I'm pretty good. On top of that is how good your decisions are, which also comes with experience. Reacting quickly doesn't help if the reaction is to panic.
There is also a whole suite of very well made mapsets that are termed "combat puzzles". Fights that take multiple attempts to solve and in no way should you expect to first try fights. These kinds of wads range from Sunder to anything Ribbiks has made to high class troll wads like NoRe. There are a lot of players that enjoy what might be termed "unfair bullshit" by some.

[halcyon willow]

I think you just haven't played any of the newer hard wads. Alien Vendetta is on the easy side of the scale compared to Entropy, Flotsam, Abandon etc. Even Scythe 2 and Speed of Doom vastly outpace AV's difficulty

Also "artificial difficulty" is a meaningless term. All difficulty is artificial

It's better to be specific about what you don't like. At the end of the day this is all just personal preference.

[median cloud]

No I mean at the end the barons and hk

[crystal hill]

oh yeah, those

if you can clear out the vile and chaingunners quickly, you can kill THEM quickly too, and get some space to move into

[median cloud]

Ive beaten Scythe 2 already as well

I didnt find av too hard but the times I died was often because of smth I didnt expect

[hexed hornet]

guys im making a doom gameplay vid someone create the thumbnail

[crystal hill]

Port Glacia is a neat level to play, but it has a banger soundtrack

and unfortunately it doesn't look like any other map/wad uses it

Does anyone have any examples of maps like that? Decent to play, but with great music?

[median cloud]

The Mucus fl-

[crystal hill]

He's out of line, but he's right

That music singlehandedly lifts Mucus Flow from the depths of mediocre and inaccessible, albeit pretty imo

[median cloud]

I've become a huge fan of that soundtrack as well I listen to it at random times

just such a great piece

I like it as well in Sunder where it's used too

[crystal hill]

MtPain says it feels sad and hopeless to him, but I kind of feel far more optimistically about it

[median cloud]

Sunder has absolutely great midi selection if it weren't for how hard it was

[crystal hill]

Like a piece that gives you the determination to keep going

Organic Gods from Jade Earth feels far more oppressive and scary than Mucus Flow imo

[median cloud]

yeah I don't feel it's oppressive either I can't really put into words how I feel about the song

It's like its own thing

Dramatic I'd say

[crystal hill]

Yeah. Or maybe operatic

Very much like the soundtrack to a magnus opus

[median cloud]

yeah

[median cloud]

is that a memento mori soundtrack?

[crystal hill]

Technically yes

As I like to say, Organic Gods was made for Memento Mori 2, but it belongs to Jade Earth

[median cloud]

haha that's fair

I remember you asked this question some time before about if I had midis I associated with certain Doom maps while them not originally belonging to them

[crystal hill]

Literally the only thing I remember about that MM2 map was that it has Organic Gods as a soundtrack and is the origin of it

[crystal hill]

I might've done, yeah

I'm sure I do that same thing with songs I dont realise werent originally made for X wad

Music from the 90s classics gets recycled often, but it wasnt memorable enough for me to remember it from them specifically

[median cloud]

I've realized I associate a lot of soundtracks with Sunder maps

Industrial from Hellcore is sunder 09 for me
Sneaky snake from duke nukem is sunder 10

I guess the grandness of those maps really does stick to your mind

[crystal hill]

Oh yes, plasma from Duke Nukem 3D is the Toxic Touch music for me

[median cloud]

Oh for sure

I said it here some time ago but that might actually be my favorite Doom Map of all time

And that's mostly due to atmosphere

haha it's funny how much I struggled with Chord3 yesterday, I do wonder if I decided to play it in dsda doom if I'd have an easier time

At the moment I feel like I have to place it at my 3rd hardest finished map which is hilarious

[crystal hill]

Thats very understandable

Its very much an equal on that front to its more famous brother

[crystal hill]

Look, if I can beat it, it cant be that hard, lol

It took me a full day or so of trying the first time, but because I remembered the route the next time, it was much simpler and quicker the 2nd time

[median cloud]

I even prefer it over Misri Halek, not a particular reason why I just do

even though Misri Halek is also superb

[median cloud]

Yeah but I have to be honest with myself haha, I did struggle a lot on this map compared to other maps I've finished

I'm placing it below Scythe 2's Death

[crystal hill]

I find that really odd. You are better at this game than I am, or at the least more persistent, so i'm surprised its this hard for you. It must be the port making a difference somehow

[median cloud]

It could be it was hard because I'd always slip up and tank like one projectile

Other wads I have played on Crispy Doom were doable with slow and passive play

Chord3 you can't play slow

[crystal hill]

Pretty much. You need to be swift or be dead

I like to play slow and cautious as well, when I can, but can switch if its required of me

[median cloud]

I'd like to believe I can as well on my main port with modern settings but I do find it harder on the "retro" settings haha

But that's on purpose since I want to emulate how people back then felt playing those levels

[crystal hill]

Respectable

Me, I don' care, lol, I just wanna have fum

[median cloud]

I'm starting Kama Sutra now and I gotta say I love this pack

It's like an improved HR which I like the aesthetic of

[crystal hill]

I'm glad you like it

Me, I consider it a proto Speed of Doom

Two authors making a megawad together, one which sometimes achieves greatness, but just as often achieves mediocrity or frustration

I like it overall, but this is far from peak Gusta

[median cloud]

That's true peak gusta is pl2

But I like the vibe of ksutra a lot as I've said it's like HR but without horrible mapping choices

and gusta is really good at doing doomcute

[crystal hill]

Some of his maps in Kama Sutra reach Plut 2 tier, like Cowface

[crystal hill]

Its far superior to the hell revealeds, on that we can agree

[median cloud]

Most maps I like of ksutra are gusta ones

[crystal hill]

Same for me

[mellow hatch]

When replacing the Doom + doom 2 on steam with UZdoom (replacing the dos folder)
Are you still able to get stuff like steam achievemts (like complete a level on nightmare difficulty) ?

[median cloud]

Probably not

[ripe cloak]

I don’t think so no but you can test

[mellow hatch]

ok, yea just tested with ultimate doom hanger and didn't work, oh well i can still use it as a way to play custom wads with

[crystal hill]

Thats the main reason to use source ports these days

For 95%+ of players, the Kex port will do more than fine

[torpid yacht]

I went back to try go 2 it on uv fast, cant believe how easy it is.
Map15 twilight is harder 😅

[wintry copper]

and I've just completed a long overdue rite of passage for my Doom journey: beat Toxic Touch from Alien Vendetta

[median cloud]

Nice man

[wintry copper]

yea it's one of a kind

I loved it all the way through though its usage of metal bars as a door in one spot threw me for a loop making me look for a switch that wasn't there 😭

other than that, S-tier level

[median cloud]

hahah I know what you mean you can just open them with your use key

I also have it as a S tier map

[wintry copper]

noice

[median cloud]

Dog eat dog is a top tier kama sutra map

so electric

[crystal hill]

kama sutra has a lot of nuggets of quality

cut out the bad/mediocre bits, replace the maps with ones equal in quality to the ones left, and you've got a fantastic megawad

[median cloud]

atm its my highest rated wad lol

but Ive always liked it a lot

[crystal hill]

wow, I cannot agree

most of the method maps are roooooough

meanwhile something like going down doesn't have maps that are rough, it has maps that are slightly less excellent than others

[median cloud]

I think I havent encountered them yet

Only had to be or not to be which was mid but I didnt dislike it

and colosseum which is basically my favorite dead simple clone I think

map 02 is also from method and its fine idk

I just finished 31 so Im about halfway

[crystal hill]

its not bad, but it's also nothing special

too many enemies to slowly kill

[crystal hill]

oh yeah, the one with a bunch of fuck you cyberdemons at the end

[crystal hill]

map 2 is fine, from the opening room. I don't remember it very well

map 32 is another method map and it's not his worst one

but its not just method's maps I dislike. King Arena feels a bit convoluted and lacking in action

[median cloud]

King arena is a cool gimmick

[crystal hill]

ehh

[restive anchor]

Just completed No Rest For The Living

Man, that was an awesome episode

Now it's time to take a look at the hugest John Romero's prank in his career

And no, that isn't a Katana Zero

That's a freaking Sigil and his sequel!

[woven swallow]

https://doomedindex.com/ yo the site is finally out of maintenance

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1260866267661733928/1484786977499906099/tierguide_2026.png?ex=69bf7f21&is=69be2da1&hm=8719c4960154f5973558abbcd13e916553108a05688be33bbb59802b17639133

[crystal hill]

is haste in general around the recruit difficulty level?

I'm looking at those rankings, and I beat SWTW Map 2 with relative ease, compared to what I expected

[woven swallow]

no, i believe this is just map10

....one map does not define the entire difficulty for a mapset

[crystal hill]

I was asking about Haste, not Swim with the Whales

[crystal hill]

and yes, I'm aware of that, hence my asking the question

[woven swallow]

Single segment run?

[crystal hill]

No saves, yes

[woven swallow]

i swear my eyes are playing tricks on me...i meant to say map10

[crystal hill]

there was one pretty tricky fight, everything else was managable

[woven swallow]

in your opinion what should it'd be place in the tier?

[crystal hill]

I don't know, I've only played three of these maps before

Plut Map 32 is simple. I beat it first try on a whim before. Sunlust Map 32 though is a bitch

that also has a BS segment, but unlike SWTW its at the very end so you can't brute force it

at least as hard if not harder than SWTW Map 2

[halcyon willow]

Dimensions is way harder than Okuplok

And Flotsam is much harder than Sunder

Okuplok isn't that hard, it's just grindy as hell

[crystal hill]

the length is quite a problem

die 2 hours in, and you have to repeat all that

[halcyon willow]

There's a magical feature called "saves"

[crystal hill]

I imagine he wasn't considering that in the list

[halcyon willow]

Good luck finishing sunder without saves

[crystal hill]

otherwise all of these would be quite managable

[halcyon willow]

The number of people that can UVmax the new sunder maps can be counted on the fingers of one hand

[woven swallow]

Reminder: this guide is comparing individual maps, not entire mapsets. A map’s tier is based on its own challenge, strategies, or required completions. That means a single mapset can contain levels in different tiers, for example, one level could be in the fairweather category while another from the same set is in the legendary category.

[halcyon willow]

That has no bearing on my opinion

[woven swallow]

You can't use saves in the doomed index, it's more focused on Uv max Single segment runs

[halcyon willow]

[woven swallow]

well i'll be damned

[halcyon willow]

Most of those maps are so far out of most people's skill set to UVmax they might as well be listed as impossible

And my most people I mean like 99.9%

[woven swallow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1167762378197311528/1484803635186503852/Screenshot_2026-03-21_130839.png?ex=69bf8ea4&is=69be3d24&hm=79a93fd62782170bc6700b47a222eedafc58eb829e8d13c47ae3c0dace30cdd4 you're not far off actually...

[halcyon willow]

I know my difficult wads c:

Ancalagon is one of the best to ever do it

[median cloud]

True

[sharp veldt]

https://youtu.be/KrLjt-pGGso

cool wad

final map is absolute chaos

[woven swallow]

Yooo this looks sick

I might play the mapset

[slim dust]

So I was working on my brutal doom run of doom 2 and at the living end scored a headshot and special death animation of the cyberdemon I never saw before.

So much fun

[slim dust]

I just beat DooM 2 with the Brutal mod installed on Ultra Violence
Only saving at the very start of a level.

[native pendant]

I scored one against a Spiderdemon one time. After blowing half its brain off, it just stood there awkwardly before suddenly exploding. This was in an older version, so I don't know if it can still be done.

[vague scroll]

https://youtu.be/xrGAvkn5Wjs

[little oar]

I like both but I remember having more fun with Plutonia

[ripe cloak]

TNT

plutonia is genuinely fucking bad

[crystal hill]

Why?

[ripe cloak]

fun maybe but bad

[crystal hill]

a great many TNT levels are poorly designed. I can't say the same about Plutonia

[ripe cloak]

Its map design is absolutely abhorrent. Its iconic for spamming revenants, chaingunners, and archviles, but the map designs and enemy placements are cancer sometimes

[crystal hill]

minus the secret maps, the numbers of enemies are all very managable

traps are pretty telegraphed (if you see a key or powerful weapon, assume you're getting ambushed when you pick it up)

[ripe cloak]

MAP03s blue skull spawns an archvile behind you, two barons, and two chaingunners if memory serves correctly in a very tight closed space where the only weapon you'll have is (iirc) a pistol, rocket launcher, and chainsaw if you got it from the mancubus

[crystal hill]

Plutonia does more with the enemy roster than both Doom 2 or TNT

[ripe cloak]

MAP01 is pretty fair

[crystal hill]

That doesn't seem right

[ripe cloak]

i can boot it up

[sharp wyvern]

Plutonia

[little oar]

There's also a blue skull key in the open that spawns like 20 revenants which is what immediately comes to mind when I think Plutonia
This isn't a bad thing btw I love that part and remember having a (panic-filled) blast when I first walked into it

Circle strafing the horde of revs while yelling "I should have seen this coming shitfuckshitfuck" is a highlight of classic DOOM to me

Stuff like that makes Plut a lot more fun than TNT was imo

[ripe cloak]

i forgot you cant send screenshots but it was a red keycard

[little oar]

Embeds

[ripe cloak]

doesn't work for me

(just have it be a rolegrab or something)

https://imgur.com/a/20RmvLK

[little oar]

Curious if this works actually
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/832527578891944006/1280966403821801594/DOOM__DOOM_II_-_Version_Date__Aug_16_2024_Software_WARP_2024-09-02_00-02-34.mp4?ex=69c18e6d&is=69c03ced&hm=c069c62d47d36e3d92bca518c53d654693b59446bc9dc1e079e78a03dc72ffd6&

Oh hey it does

[ripe cloak]

here

im playing it on the I+II port too but i used uzdoom for that

[ripe cloak]

that doesn't look fun tbh

[little oar]

It is incredibly fun

[ripe cloak]

maybe to overcome but thats an incredibly bullshit encounter

only saving grace is the walls you can use to cover the shots

[little oar]

That was a rerecording since I wanted to show some friends the kind of stuff you put up with when DOOM wads remember that being hard is a thing video games can do so it's a bit more "boring" in the sense of me already knowing how to approach it

[crystal hill]

ok, so you do only have those weapons, but you have plenty of space to move around the arch vile, and enough rockets to then kill everything in that room

[ripe cloak]

not really

[crystal hill]

I literally just did that

[ripe cloak]

if you back up to kill the Archvile you take damage from the Chaingunners

And the baron

[crystal hill]

the chaingunners will also hit the arch vile

they arent so close that they will insta kill you

[ripe cloak]

that can't be guarenteed

if you try to take cover from the Chaingunners you die to the Archvile or splash damage

[crystal hill]

it also cant be guaranteed they will hit you

[crystal hill]

leave the room

[little oar]

Maybe so, but it's survivable if you think enough
A blue key laying out there in the open is enough of a hint that something is probably going to happen

[ripe cloak]

i'm good

[crystal hill]

then go back and kill the enemies from a better position

[crystal hill]

clearly not, if you're complaining about the fight

[ripe cloak]

i thought you told me ot leave sorry

[crystal hill]

???

[sharp wyvern]

😭

[ripe cloak]

like the channel

[crystal hill]

ok

[ripe cloak]

also you can't cuz the archviels too fat

[sharp wyvern]

i think in general plutonia uses revenants better than doom 2 did

[crystal hill]

what do you mean, you can't?

there's plenty of room

[ripe cloak]

oh my god

you can just leave the room

[crystal hill]

yeah?

Plutonia makes you play smarter at times

you might not be able to get out of the trap the first time, but because the levels are really tight, it's not an issue

[ripe cloak]

thats still a really dick encounter and trap though

[crystal hill]

not really?

like I said, assume keys are trapped in Plutonia, all the time

if you think like that, and see that your weapons aren't great for the room you are in, just run

[little oar]

I think it also really depends on how you feel about trial and error game design.
If you're one of those people who equate trial and error to automatically mean unfair/bad design, then yeah Plutonia probably won't do you any favors
However if you're someone who likes that kind of stuff and the sort of "puzzle" element that comes with it, then that's where Plut shines

[crystal hill]

and if you run behind the vile, the chaingunners will likely hit it

which is another distraction for you to take advantage of

[ripe cloak]

still not much of a fan of that puzzle or plutonia in general

[crystal hill]

To each their own. But I think TNT is far inferior design wise

you like hitscanners? you like big open maps with nothing in em?

[ripe cloak]

beats twenty revenants that can four shot me with tight homing missiles

[crystal hill]

which plutonia level siccs 20 revenants at you?

map 32 maybe

besides, annoying as they are, there's a skill to playing around them

TNT at least has a kickass soundtrack

[median cloud]

Think plutonia might just be too hard for u then

Nothing wrong with that

[ripe cloak]

yeah thats fair, i try to stray from slaughtermaps cuz of that reason

[crystal hill]

the thing is, Plutonia is very light on the spice scale by custom wad standards

it's going to be a challenge to find many popular ones that are easier than Plutonia

[bitter shoal]

probably cause the BFG or rocket wasn't being used, which are better weapons for that encounter

[ripe cloak]

way to tight for rocket unless you run into one of the ends

[crystal hill]

which is a good idea

Plutonia is all about fighting smarter, not harder

[bitter shoal]

IIRC I think you can start with the rocket from a distance as they just start spawning, or you can start with BFG and thin their numbers so that you have more space to rocket

plasma rifle either way is sub-optimal since it is a purely single target weapon outside of enemies that are squishy and mowed down by it

[median cloud]

u can def rl that fight

[sharp wyvern]

pretty sure i did that

u have the super shotty by then too no?

[bitter shoal]

yeah there is a SSG on the map. I forget where

[torpid yacht]

Just noticed JPCP is their own version of Doom 2 on the mancubus map 💀
I thought it was something waaaay different lol
Stopped at map 10 so far its good

[true wagon]

Hi! Anyone who can help me boosting the 100 kills on Doom I (bfg edition) I'm on xbox

[native anchor]

I kinda wish TNT and Sigil had remixed tracks in the KexEngine port.

[livid light]

sigil does have the buckethead soundtrack but yeah its a shame tnt didnt get anything, same goes for lor

[little oar]

Sigil's buckethead ost isn't in the Kex port, only the Midi ost is

[sharp wyvern]

Cause it would probably cost a lot to have buckethead

[livid light]

i know but it could kinda fit as the “remixes” for kex port if it was included

[little oar]

Ah

It would've been nice then yeah
You can still get it playable within the KEX port at least, it's just a kind of weird process of converting all the mp4s in the wad to midi files with audacity then putting them back into the wad

If they were willing to go to Andrew Hulshult to make a new IDKFA album for II, it would've been cool if they went to license the fanmade Plutonia music replacement wad too

[livid light]

a legacy of rust remix would be pretty fire as well but i doubt it will happen

[wary summit]

Is this like the doom from 1993 or-

This is just me double checking if it is

[little oar]

Wdym?
Like for the kex port thing? That has DOOM (1993) in it, yeah

[bitter shoal]

your avatars look so similar I thought you were responding to yourself

[little oar]

That's just the schizophrenia acting up again don't mind me

[wary summit]

Just the original doom overall lol

[wary summit]

Yeah i see it

[sharp wyvern]

This is for doom 1-64

[wary summit]

Oh, perfext

[sturdy monolith]

Is doom+doom2 worth buying rn ?

[little oar]

Yes!

[woven atlas]

i dont know

[little oar]

You get pretty much every officially released classic DOOM game (except for DOOM 64) + a brand new expansion made specifically for it, in a really good port for $4

And if you want to use source ports, DOOM I + II gives you all the files you need to do so

[sturdy monolith]

And is there any good mods in it?

[little oar]

It mainly sticks to the more vanilla side of things, so you won't find anything crazy like myhouse or brutal here, if that's what you mean

Otherwise a lot of fan levels should still work with it

[woven atlas]

dawg its from 1995 there isnt gonna be much mods

[little oar]

Oh if only you knew...
DOOM has been so heavily modded for the past 30 years it's unreal, there are STILL constant influx of fanmade levels or packs the size of DOOM II (so 32 levels)

[woven atlas]

damn

[little oar]

If you play fan games for other communities, there's a chance you may have played a DOOM mod without knowing
Sonic Robo Blast 2 is based on a DOOM mod/port

[woven atlas]

nah i dont really do that type of stuff

[little oar]

Fair enough
But yeah! DOOM has a bunch of mods for it

So much so that in 1995 id themselves released a huuuuge bundle of fan-made levels called "Maximum DOOM" that contains around 1500+ levels collectively

[woven atlas]

thats cool

[little oar]

Two years after DOOM launched, so imagine how many levels exist now that DOOM is 30

[sharp wyvern]

tbf though doom zero and going down are pretty goated

plus rekkr

[median cloud]

There are like a billion of gameplay mods out there that significantly change how Doom can be played

On top of that there are even more just mappacks out there that have their own style

[woven swallow]

i can't tell if you are being for real or not...

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1376790283274162206/1465022036287160330/Screenshot_2026-01-25_230421.png?ex=69c21458&is=69c0c2d8&hm=bc2893b91809fda177b1adb0e2a6618a6ea29806589b79768aac8cd2d0877769

[twin mortar]

It has had 30 years to get mods...

The game has always been extremely popular among modders

[proven cloak]

That's bait.

[ripe cloak]

Are you joking

[crystal hill]

Its the most modded game of all time bro

[median cloud]

Think that's minecraft

but doom is possibly top 3

[ripe cloak]

No doom is more modded imo

Longer time out + easier to mod

[languid quarry]

Are you serious

[languid quarry]

Possibly Gmod

[bitter shoal]

https://tenor.com/view/sorry-bro-hand-on-shoulder-gif-11963500747147243380

[crystal hill]

poor guy is getting clowned on

[ripe cloak]

Either legendary rage bait or genuine bliss

Not even mentioning the fact that Doom was MADE to be modded, every sprite being conveniently placed in a .wad with the intent for modes to change the assets and sounds

[woven swallow]

And for good reasons

[broken iron]

THE MOON IS...BLUEEEEae

[torpid yacht]

Rekkr sucks
And I've played it twice

[gloomy scarab]

Give us a Steam Workshop for Doom + Doom II please

[woven swallow]

Ultimate doom builder exists...so as Slade

[storm tapir]

Doom has so many mods even source ports of doom have their own mods

[gloomy scarab]

Ultimate Doom Builder is too hard to work with, it's too complicated, and GZDoom's menu and title screen and stuff are all messed up, and it expects you to go through all this complicated launching and file moving just so you can play

[livid light]

wdym? you just need to put your doom iwad and gzdoom pk3, you can even use d+d2 if you want although its not recommended

[gloomy scarab]

I just want to hit play and choose a level. I don't want to have to move around files and have to do all sorts of complicated stuff just to try and play a game. You can't force me to try and like a very hard and difficult soul crushing way to play Doom

[livid light]

im not forcing you, but if you just want to play and not make wads i recommend a gui like doomrunner, makes everything a lot easier and you dont need to use command line

[gloomy scarab]

Doom + Doom II is the way I personally like. But I want some changes made to it to make a definite experience.

Change the red crosses on the medkits back to red. Uncensor the Wolfenstein levels. Give enemies accurate blood particle colors when you shoot them, such as blue for Cacodemons, and green for barons and knights.

I don't see why using one little red cross on a video game item makes you as bad as Doomguy's sadistic, bloodthirsty commanding officer

[livid light]

idk, geneva gets mad if you use it, lots of games have had to censor their red crosses to not get in legal trouble

the rerelase has the original iwads with the first things you mentioned, but i dont know if you can use them with the kex engine

[gloomy scarab]

The Doom community should focus on the Kex engine from now on

Convert GZdoom wads making them playable in Kex

[livid light]

kex is missing a ton of stuff, its just not possible for some wads
decorate, zscript, udmf, strife dialog, etc

[gloomy scarab]

What if someone tried to convert myhouse.wad to kex?

[twin mortar]

It would not work

[livid light]

you cant or i guess you could but it would be an incredibly watered down version because its missing some of the stuff i said above

[woven swallow]

Oh boy what happened

[woven swallow]

Even if you can with mbf21 trickery and some dehacked shenanigans, it's gonna be a complete downgrade from the original zdoom mod...

[gloomy scarab]

What binding do you guys think is best for the "use" key on Classic Doom and why, Space, E, or RMB?

[twin mortar]

Space because it's iconic. On controller I do A

[woven swallow]

Space...or mouse wheel down

On the controller I use A

[livid light]

i use e cause i got too used to more modern games

[mellow matrix]

I also use E. Space is nothing and RMB is my strafe button for SR50

[coarse hare]

I don't remember, but do all enemies infight?

[woven swallow]

https://youtu.be/mH1AB1pOI28?si=engorQenZte7jG58 it's not a simple yes or no question so here's a good analysis video about the subject

[coarse hare]

Thank you very much! 🙏 Interesting and very helpful. I just currently work on same thing in 2016, but interesting that Archvile is an exception even in OG Doom. Maybe would play with values later too.

[bitter shoal]

well yes and no, archvile will still get distracted and attack other monsters and it can still take damage from accidental hits from other monsters. It also gets damaged by its own explosion

[coarse hare]

Thank you!

Wonder, if hierarchy of enemies is a right thing to go according to lore or not. In Doom 1 almost everyone fight everyone and even some infight vs own type.
In 2016, there is clear hierarchy and few exceptions and no infights with own type:

• Summoners/Archviles don't fight as far as I remember nor enemies fight vs them.
• Zombies, Cacodemons don't fight nor enemies fight vs them outside of directed fights (edited: should mention Caco fight others, if player is dead).
• Imps and Soldiers fight almost everyone and each other and often fight together vs higher tier enemies.
• Revenants fight almost everyone.
• Hell Knights and other high tier demons don't fight each other and fight only fodder and Revenants.

Also there is a question of demon intelligence and ability to not react to decoy/hologram, for example. I assume higher tier demons should be more smart, especially Archviles.

[glass bone]

I agree

[glass bone]

X on playstation

[median cloud]

I use X on keyboard for "use" in Doom

[crystal hill]

I stick with "e" because it's right next to my WASD keys

[gloomy scarab]

Right mouse button for me cuz it's right next to the left mouse button, it just feels right for me

[crystal hill]

that's actually pretty valid. But I use RMB for secndary fire in some wads I play, so that'd be a no go

[gloomy scarab]

I usually play Doom + Doom II instead of using ZDoom

[ripe cloak]

You scare me

[crystal hill]

extremely fair

ZDoom isnt for everyone

[bitter shoal]

I might have tot ry this for most games to free up E for weapon selecting.

or other games where I don't want to press 4 and 5 keys

well 4 is fine

5 is really bad though

[median cloud]

I use space for jump in other games

and e in doom is used for the bfg

[crystal hill]

Ehhh

the bfg is something you use with a little bit of thought beforehand

so having it be on 7 is fine

[median cloud]

I can hit all the other keys fine

cant hit slot 7

[woven swallow]

6 is too far away for me 💀

i put Plasma on R and Bfg on F

[crystal hill]

6 and 7 are harder, but doable

and again, the bfg isn't something you really need on speeddial anyway

[median cloud]

hmmm I disagree

esp in slaughtermaps I switch between rl and bfg

[crystal hill]

maybe for those, if you switch weapons a lot

[bitter shoal]

I can still have it on like the G key and it'd still be less likely to accidentally be hit but easier than 7 key

[crystal hill]

I'd forget its on the G key

[twin mortar]

The d-pad down binding on 3 BFG is quite responsive and I might start using it for Classic DOOM

[woven swallow]

https://youtu.be/IuA7mulYOYg?si=DdxEowdout-RxJ9a

[bitter shoal]

I have that video open to watch later but I was like "well, people are certainly going to know about it now"

[robust timber]

The Brutal doom v22 beta 6 has been released

[tame finch]

no. fucking. way.

[hexed hornet]

yall should see the log i just got out my system shi looks like the shotgun shell

[crystal hill]

Care to elaborate?

[hexed hornet]

what you mean elaborate

thats as clear as it gets

[crystal hill]

log has multiple meanings

so does my system

[hexed hornet]

never mind bro your thinking bout it to hard

i spray painted an old mother board yellow

[crystal hill]

well, that aside

@median cloud I think I'm finally weaning off of my Doom addiction. I haven't been all that passionate about playing it for a good while now, in part because the 2018 wads are kinda crap, in part due to illness

[median cloud]

Thats too bad but you cant stay super interested forever

I will hit that wall as well eventually

[crystal hill]

I've got some other stuff I can play at the moment, maybe once I get bored of those I can get back to Doom in earnest

[bitter shoal]

still need to go through DQ7 on console, and even then I also just downloaded Amid Evil VR so I'll be playing that instead of DOOM for a bit

[median cloud]

Maybe give Eviternity a shot?

[crystal hill]

one day

Hopefully in the not too distant future

[bleak heart]

Hey all

just managed to get all the achiements in Doom 1 + 2

[median cloud]

Alright I beat Combat Shock 2!!

I guess Sunder is next

[bleak heart]

Nice

My favourite game in that pack...has to be legacy of rust.

[woven swallow]

LESS GOOOO

[median cloud]

Old sunder tho haha

New one idk if im up for

[woven swallow]

Ofc

[woven swallow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1167762378197311528/1486836214219669695/Screenshot_20260325_050124.jpg?ex=69c6f3a1&is=69c5a221&hm=83d8d28da0b57a972403570048e46a7ba4f91957797acae63f34873eae210294& mission: Beat Insomnia

[cinder sapphire]

@crystal hill is it finally time for Hideous Destructor?

or could also try any other gameplay mods 😉

[crystal hill]

you've caught me at kind of a doom rut

[cinder sapphire]

I saw, and that's why I suggested the change of pace 😅

(half joking)

[crystal hill]

I actually planned something similar after I beat all the 2018 maps. I was hoping the thought of that would motivate me through beating them all

[cinder sapphire]

do you know how many you have left?

[crystal hill]

too many

according to my list here, most of two megawads, a few episode replacements, a one map wad and two or three gameplay mods

Also, I actually gave hideous destructor a go as part of playing the 25 missed cacowards a while ago

looks like past me had some technical issues though

[cinder sapphire]

how did it fair?

[crystal hill]

"Hideous Destructor (2007) - A very infamous mod, that either I couldn't get working (reloading didn't work half the time) or was too dumb to figure out. That being said, I doubt I am missing much. RU (runner up for the Cacowards), for the novelty and very unique gameplay? Sure."

[cinder sapphire]

ah

[crystal hill]

its the kind of thing I worry I didn't experience properly, like an Aliens TC

So while my review is less than glowing (even though I do point out the uniqueness), it could be heavily influenced by factors outside the wad's control

[cinder sapphire]

guess thats the way things go some times. glad you gave it a try 🙂

[crystal hill]

if I ever get the urge to try it again, I'll know who to go to for the optimal experience

[cinder sapphire]

for sure. will also stream it Friday night around 9pm central if you're ever extra curious 😉 either way, I bet you'll get through that doom rut in due time definitely good to take breaks though.

[crystal hill]

I live a few hours ahead of that, but maybe I can catch that after work. The doom rut never lasts long, especially these days with my lack of things to play

I've almost forgotten what it's like to play games that aren't doom or a small selection of my old favourites

[woven swallow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1260866267661733928/1487087432561197136/Screenshot_2026-03-27_201028.png?ex=69c7dd98&is=69c68c18&hm=b6e856fce38d3ef425d8c14237410ec9eee6af2bd9ef355a547d553657869b25 first submission baby, lets goooo

[dire fractal]

Hi, I wonder if anyone can help me. Me and a friend on mine played a lot of cooperative games but one day the game started giving him problems. Whenever he tries to join my multiplayer game / to host a multiplayer game, it says "You were disconnected from the lobby". We tried installing the game on another pc (connected to another wifi), but even that didn't work.

I'm talking about the Kex Doom port (Doom + Doom II)

[crystal hill]

Rekkr as a wad is quite confusing, hard to find my way around

But I'm getting into Exomoon to balance it out. The author has a good handle on combat and open areas not being confusing

he also gives you a computer area map in each level. Kind man, generous man

[median cloud]

Im actually looking forward to playing Sunder so much haha

[bitter shoal]

History being made :o

[woven swallow]

Submitted two more

[bitter shoal]

that is awesome

[halcyon willow]

Playing Sunder is a religious experience

[rigid wolf]

Hello all

My god legacy of rust level 2 is hard on ultra violent

Maybe I should do doom 2 first

[mighty walrus]

Just lower the difficulty

[rigid wolf]

Well I do like to suffer like

[mighty walrus]

If you're wanting to switch games because it's too hard then swallow your pride and start on the lower difficulty. Or if you want to suffer then continue through it.

[rigid wolf]

Yeah that's a fair option

[mighty walrus]

Or play Doom II. Do whatever you feel like would be fun for you

[woven swallow]

Who plays legacy of rust before doom2? 💀

[median cloud]

Gonna be smth else to single segment them

[rigid wolf]

Well I did level 1 and a bit lol

[woven swallow]

You should start with doom2, it's more easier

[rigid wolf]

Thanks on it now

[sharp wyvern]

yeah i'd do LoR after Doom 2

otherwise you have to get used to like twice as many new enemies 😭

[edgy salmon]

Pow

[woven swallow]

Even after beating all the original doom games and expansions, I still feel like you should play custom maps before even tackling LoR, since LoR is a completely different beast compared to the originals, not just in difficulty but also advanced on its mapping engine

[sharp wyvern]

meh i think you can do LoR before custom maps

if you've beaten plutonia you're basically at the level

[mighty walrus]

People can do what they want

[halcyon willow]

Gazebo was convinced some of the newer Sunder maps were impossible to UVMax

Map 19 in particular

Turns out there are like, 3 people mad enough to dedicate themselves to doing exactly that lol

In fact arbys550 did the first 14 maps single segment uvmax

One run

Madest of lads

[median cloud]

Yeah people in the doomed index discord do commit time to do it

Im only gonna single segment the original 14 maps tho

And maybe su31 as well

[rigid wolf]

Good god I love the sound of the super shotgun

It's really nice that it doesn't have vertical aim though

I doubt the game would feel as fun with full aim

[crystal hill]

try and have fun

[median cloud]

Itll be a mix of frustration and fun

Im ready at my current skill level

[crystal hill]

good luck

[woven swallow]

Cam is improving, love to see it

https://tenor.com/view/it-brings-a-tear-to-my-eye-in-tears-emotional-teary-eyed-thankful-gif-14678856

[knotty wyvern]

I'm finally good enough at this game to beat plutonia. Was struggling on level 4, sat down last night and now i'm on 24.

[knotty wyvern]

How much harder is Eviternity on Hmp vs Plutonia?

[torpid yacht]

What other wads should I play to prepare me for sunlust

[twin mortar]

@sharp wyvern #doom-eternal message
Yeah if you JUST switched to the BFG then there's a small cooldown preventing you from attacking with it. It's quite handy

[crystal hill]

Try crumpets

Or combat shock 1 + 2

[median cloud]

vs plutonia on uv?

No idea but eviternity in general is a bit harder than Plutonia

[woven swallow]

way harder

oh hmp?....

[woven swallow]

Crumpets
Arrival
Combat shock 2
Plutonia 2
Micro Slaughter
Stardate 20x6

[zealous galleon]

You should make a Doom game where talks about daisy's revenge

[boreal brook]

Hi guys im ita can som1 help me with the platinum of Doom 1 Classic?

[crystal hill]

Exomoon is singlehandedly keeping my will to play Doom alive

(that and the promise of a "break" period where I play more weird stuff)

it feels like an Ancient Aliens type wad, but less colourful, less funny and less focused on the exploration aspect. Still very good because Ancient Aliens was very good, though

[woven swallow]

Exomoon byyy Tomas soreas right?

[crystal hill]

indeed

I didn't remember liking his Ozonia when I first played it, but I'm starting to think I was just young and dumb and sucked at the game. I'm looking forward to playing that again

[woven swallow]

Nicee

[crystal hill]

and of course, just like with everyone who's maps I start to like, I discover that he hasn't made much since

[crystal hill]

Actually, there IS one thing Exomoon has over Ancient Aliens

It has some of the most consistently best secrets I've ever seen. They're not too hard to find, you always get a computer area map per level to help you find them, and they usually have some enemies in them for added gameplay

[brittle rover]

Doom II is the goat

[pale rampart]

I got doom and doom II

What recomend me

I dont know english

[crystal hill]

start with doom 1, then play doom 2

[woven swallow]

doom and then play doom2...

[pale rampart]

Ok

Thanks

[woven swallow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1482018219169677332/1487866699905499336/Screenshot_2026-03-30_000028.png?ex=69cab358&is=69c961d8&hm=8eab6f93db4eef6744fdd51f56dc4dd0b249bc1859efbb81269fa2c5be38b205 look who's on the leaderboard, for scythe map30 btw

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1482018219169677332/1487867782250106920/Screenshot_2026-03-30_000502.png?ex=69cab45a&is=69c962da&hm=78d562d835f7812f7122d30404610f02c32b3c290e99150f99755a95b8cdd29d here's my text document, have a fun read

[boreal brook]

Hi guys im ita can som1 help me with the platinum of Doom 1 Classic?

[woven swallow]

Yes how can I help?

[boreal brook]

Can i tell you what trophy I need if you want

[woven swallow]

Yes

[boreal brook]

Im the best!
25 and 100 deathmatch
Not Bad
Untouchable
And All secret level

[brittle rover]

Kenny is immortal

[woven swallow]

Indeed I am

[median cloud]

nice man

Scythe map 30 was also what kickstarted my "beat hard maps" playthrough

it was the first classic hard one I beat

[woven swallow]

Yooo nice!

[crystal hill]

A sign that you're playing a good wad is when you prioritise it over adult responsibilities, like sleep

[wind flicker]

Im on e4m8🥹 🥹 🥹

In doom 1

🥹 🔥

[real patio]

greetings im Shawn and I got the Shotgun! worst doom reference of all time

[crystal hill]

ba dum tish

[halcyon willow]

[wintry copper]

man I'm literally waiting for Romero to play Doom with me

[crystal hill]

nice reference

[bitter shoal]

I'd play but I'm in Sandy's City right now

[crystal hill]

I'm also busy, At Doom's Gate

[woven swallow]

Sending a message for the Archvile right now

[livid light]

im running from evil so i cant either

[brittle rover]

Hi

[crystal hill]

allo

[crystal hill]

Dimension of the Boomed is a wad that takes Quake's graphics, some of Quake's enemies, and puts them in a wad that doesn't feel much at all like Quake, with some exceptions

its not bad at all, and I don't regret playing it, but I had higher hopes, as a Quake enjoyer

[wintry copper]

same

Parallel Doomensions was a promising megawad, shame it was never completed

[crystal hill]

Haven't played that one before

[wintry copper]

yeah it entered development in 2020, don't remember when they released what they did get finished

oh the final release has 28 maps, I'll count that as a full 32-level WAD given the circumstances

[frail perch]

@hasty cradle عيربيك

[crystal hill]

my arbitrary judgement is that 15 maps or more is a megawad

[wintry copper]

I'd say 20 or more maps

[harsh atlas]

I beat Classic doom 18 times, is this much?

[crystal hill]

that's up to you

[mighty walrus]

stop.

You've pinged them in multiple channels today

[crystal hill]

what makes you say that?

I don't love it myself, but it's very competently designed

the level designers don't use the tougher enemies or give you better weapons in Doom 1 until episode 3, arguably episode 4, which is a problem

but the fundamentals are in place and good, and only get better in Doom 2

[mighty walrus]

Nobody is gonna fix a game from 1993. Don't play it then.

[vestal flax]

just quicksave if that's a problem for you

[crystal hill]

either save your game or use a source port that autosaves for you

not to mention that pistol starting on its own is very enjoyable

Doom 1/2 are very different games, from a design perspective, to the later Doom games. They're almost arcadey in a way

ok, thanks for letting me know. I'll stop talking to you know

[mighty walrus]

Enjoy your mute

[woven swallow]

doom1 might not be my favorite, but it does NOT SUCK

[dark tapir]

What if Doom's lore was planned from the beginning

Like how would classic Doom change if they ID Software was already planning on the lore being as it is in 2026

[boreal brook]

So can you or someone else help me with the plat?

[vapid cairn]

Hi xD

[fair dew]

Hey is anybody experienced with prboom+?

[hollow tree]

What are the thoughts here on extermination day? I thought it was a pretty cool retelling of classic doom in classic doom

[halcyon willow]

Not a widely used port these days with dsda fully deprecating it. What's the issue?

[fair dew]

Yea i literally just switched to dsda lmao but I still have the same issue

Basically im trying to run the minor sprite fix wad with ancient aliens and it doesnt seem to be working

That one brown pixel on the super shotgun is still there and the frame issue is there as well. Not sure what to do

[coarse horizon]

Try star wars dark forces

They got that

But not here=w=

[crystal hill]

they probably wouldn't have fired tom hall, and they would have leaned into his story style more

[median cloud]

I'm a bit anti-Doom 1 pilled because I don't find it a super hot take to say it's kinda meh 😭

[crystal hill]

he was literally rage baiting

he also said it sucks, not that its mid

[median cloud]

haha I noticed but the first time I read it I was like "ehhh I kinda get it"

[crystal hill]

he made one point though

unless you count "everything sucks except nostalgia" as a point

[median cloud]

nah it's obvious he was ragebaiting

[alpine ledge]

What are y'all's opinions on DOOM: Classic Redux? Cuz I found it while scrolling through mods on DOOM + DOOM II and I fucking love it

[crystal hill]

never heard of it, what kind of mod is it?

[alpine ledge]

It's a "vanilla+" mod

Changes some textures, adds some rooms, some monster closets, and plugs in Romero's Phobos Anomaly

There's also DOOM II: Classic Redux, but I haven't played that one past Underhalls cuz I was getting sleepy at the time

[crystal hill]

that sounds like nice, actually, for a slightly remade doom 1 experience

its not something I'm interested in, because of the copious amounts of wads I'm playing, but it sounds really neat

[dark tapir]

It goes hard I like the way they redid classic levels

[crystal hill]

Exomoon has the makings of a hard wad, but it is waaaay too generous with the powerups, even on spicy plutonia difficulty

There's a megasphere in the central area in map 17 I was saving for a desperate occasion

I never got desperate enough to use it. I also managed to not use another megasphere in a different part of the map 💀

like, some fights are genuinely quite tough. But if you make it through them, you'll almost always be able to get back to 200 200

[true urchin]

i wish i could find a mod or something to rework doom 1 levels with the extra doom 2 monsters

because the layouts are generally pretty fun but every goddamned stage feels like its 90% imps and zombies

maybe a cacodemon or hell baron occasionally

id love to see the missions remade to see what they would play like if the devs had more than like 4 different enemy types to work with

[crystal hill]

I'd be curious to see John Romero remaking Doom 1, at least his maps, from scratch in the modern style

his E1M8 replacement is good stuff on its own

[woven swallow]

Play Amalagoom

[crystal hill]

Preacher started off very easy and is now dropping four cyberdemons into the penultimate level

not sure how to feel about this kind of a spike

[woven swallow]

yo nice preacher is one of my top 10 all time favorites

[crystal hill]

it was neat, not quite the equal to exomoon, but its dropping a little in my estimation for the sadism

[woven swallow]

yeah....

[crystal hill]

the random warp locations were neat when my success didn't depends so much on them

[woven swallow]

on a scale of 1 to 10, how good was exomoon?

[crystal hill]

I've still got 3 maps to play, but so far... I guess a high 7 or so

if my favourite wad ever would get a 10

[woven swallow]

will check it out then

[crystal hill]

I'm quite excited to replay Ozonia now

I dismissed it when I first played it, but I'm hoping its like Exomoon but better now

[crystal hill]

Ok, I'm really starting to hate this level

there's nowhere near enough cells to comfortably kill everything and there's about 50,000 arachnotrons to hit me from across the map

[woven swallow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1236164591885484052/1488676621480366271/doom45.png?ex=69cda5a4&is=69cc5424&hm=396f5b23189200c49a6e531954c6ebd1cdb64933df909f30b91b4b8743793369&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1236164591885484052/1488676621954060478/doom46.png?ex=69cda5a4&is=69cc5424&hm=c04c77a25d0ad11190adbd7c2f2a75d58d31a241775137d294eb424e0b54bf4b&

holy, this is better than i expected, i'm absolutely beating this map-set

[crystal hill]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1366154810000412732/1488681831762235502/image.png?ex=69cdaa7f&is=69cc58ff&hm=e0d0ec9a5686699021f53cbf4271ed88d0aa1e3d01882d6e4087ca3f6927c588

Finally, I can go to sleep with no disgrace

can't wait to have to play the final map tomorrow 💀

[true urchin]

what's amalgoom

[woven swallow]

basically doom1 and doom2 maps combined

like complete recreation maps

https://youtu.be/qtNA7-AueR4?list=PLHisvY7hcPGKqStHxBuf7Ggpa32SfCOwc

[alpine ledge]

Oh I almost forgot. It's got a lot of doomcutes

[drowsy urchin]

Is this chanel also for doom 64 or nah

[alpine ledge]

I'd assume so

[drowsy urchin]

Okii

Does anyone know how i can upgrade my unmaykr in doom 64

Im.playing on hardest dificulty

[bitter shoal]

It also puts a good spin on that concept. If it were just a combination of the maps alone and without the added vibes, I doubt I would have liked it as much as I did.

[crystal hill]

Find the demon runes hidden each secret level

[drowsy urchin]

How do i get the secret levels :3

[crystal hill]

Hard to say, each is different and faily complex

Look em up on the Doomwiki for a better explanation than I can give

[median cloud]

Started Sunder and beat 01 and 02 and icl this will be harder than I thought

after beating Combat Shock I thought I was pretty set but these sunder traps feel meaner

[crystal hill]

Sunder 1 and 2 are doable without your blood boiling

The fun comes later

[median cloud]

Sunder 5 will be rouuugh

[crystal hill]

I probably made the right choice by quitting

[median cloud]

It does seem like my skill level has been building up to this

and I do somewhat pace myself by playing "easier" wads inbetween

[boreal brook]

Guys can someone help me i play on playstation and i need help with this trophy for the platinum

Im the best!
25 and 100 deathmatch
Not Bad
Untouchable
And All secret level

[vestal flax]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBCva9WUsdw
||I fell for it||

[halcyon willow]

Let's see if you still feel that way after Dreaming Gardens c:

[median cloud]

Well coincidentally I just beat it haha

Ive played it before with saves a while ago so I was familiar with the map

[woven swallow]

I liked the part where he beats it twice in a row

[median cloud]

Sunder04 kinda kicking my ass but im playing it more dangerous

[crystal hill]

Preacher done. Map 08 and a bit of map 09 drag it down quite a bit, but I still really enjoyed it

[median cloud]

Sunder map 04 is doneeee

[crystal hill]

Demonastery is a beautiful map that has combat so limp, I think its an active detriment

The fights don't really challenge you. At least in Exomoon, the fights are fairly tough and engaging, and then you get healed to full. This wad doesn't do much to get you down from full in the first place

[crystal hill]

@cinder sapphire Have you ever played Guncaster? I gave it a whirl just now, and it's very fun

it reminds me of Russian Overkill, in a good way, but less overpowered. Also a good thing

[halcyon willow]

Yeah it escalates pretty fast with Grinder being an early big difficulty spike

[median cloud]

Think Precarious is the first big spike

Which is what Im at now

[halcyon willow]

Precarious is an odd one. The difficulty is almost entirely dependent on how well you handle the platforming

Grinder is just mean

[median cloud]

Its an exhausting 2 map stretch

[halcyon willow]

But yeah, Precarious does give a lot of people trouble

[median cloud]

I didnt like 04 much tbh

[halcyon willow]

Then you get to Pale Monunent, which is peak

[median cloud]

07-10 are fine though

10 is probably the hardest one out of those

11 is doable as well

[halcyon willow]

Zealous machine and Obsidian Nightmare are the hardest of the later maps imo

Hags Finger can be tricky

[median cloud]

Agreed

Though I thought 14 was hard as well but apparently it isnt

Gonna end my sunder playthrough with 31 probably

Or try to atleast