classic-doom

[storm tapir]

still better than that one map where you have to move on some invisible ledge to get a key<

Only thing I remember from that map is the damned key, I think it also had cage doors but those were probably for said key

[latent ibex]

Hi

[woven swallow]

hello Sono

[solemn socket]

i think doomwiki has dementia

[woven swallow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1371201029307105412/1475855776450089111/ItaloMAP01UVMAX_ATT-00114.lmp?ex=699f014d&is=699dafcd&hm=5991bbc0d89e8b1a75012602e6c98cfa42d723361d72b63aa38c283abadc31a4&
DEMO COMPLETION
IWAD: DOOM2.wad
PWAD: ITALO.wad
Skill: 4
Warp: 01
Complevel: 9
Attempts: 114 (jesus christ, i just realized)
Sourceport: Dsda-doom
Wad Download link: https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/megawads/italo
Demo Author: KennyisALIVE
Map Authors: Ribbiks and DanneBubinga

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1473309213861351638/1475854550517944564/doom06.png?ex=699f0028&is=699daea8&hm=15c03361e8a1e1f0c4a00a853a9590adb5de137fb7994665a08e798ffbb158b9

Batch file line
dsda-doom.exe (or whatever, along as it supports boom and is not a zdoom port) -iwad doom2.wad -file italo.wad -complevel 9 -skill 4 -warp 01 -playdemo ItaloMAP01UVMAX_ATT-00114.lmp

[woven swallow]

https://youtu.be/5lJrEvSsPGM?si=nAt2X1y1Ppjz9-T_

[crystal hill]

Anyone played Struggle: Antaresian Legacy?

[woven swallow]

i have

goated Mapset

i highly recommend it

[crystal hill]

I'm about to start, it's next on my list

I played it for a few levels a year ago, but something didn't click

[glass bone]

It was alright

[storm tapir]

Yeah a month ago (And not sure how many times before)

[crystal hill]

did you like it?

[storm tapir]

I don't replay mapsets I hate

[crystal hill]

I wrote my message before you edited yours

[storm tapir]

Ah ok sry

Only thing I hate is my eyes are on fire from the blue at the end of the wad

but that's mostly because I have a vivid monitor

[crystal hill]

I didn't get that far on my first playthrough, lol

[storm tapir]

it is like 20 easy maps then starts trying to kill you more and more

[crystal hill]

I only played alphii scorpii monument because it was on the memorable maps list

[storm tapir]

Although I'd say the last 10 maps are more interesting than the rest

that must be the pen-ultimate map

I must say the map before it was way more interesting

nvm I mixed them up

thought the map before it was in its map slot

[crystal hill]

two maps in, and I'm getting really lost

[storm tapir]

Yeah sometimes it is easy to miss a switch or hall

wouldn't call any of them a labyrinth though

[crystal hill]

so far so ehhhhhhh

4 maps in and I dunno if I want to continue

[storm tapir]

@crystal hill skip to the 2nd chapter (map12 or something)

or the third, they are different enough

[crystal hill]

that's not a good sign

[crystal hill]

I tried map 12 as well. Didn't make me want to continue

[ocean mist]

is the remastered song used in the icon of sin level the same as the title screen in eternal?

[crystal hill]

yes

[ocean mist]

i thought so

also, the remaster for into sandys city is so peak

[median cloud]

The sinister remaster is also really good

@crystal hill the going down soundtrack just randomly stuck in my head

Guess its a sign

[crystal hill]

the fates foretold it

cyriak is so skilled at so many things

[ocean mist]

the only song i would consider the original to be better, is i sawed the demons idk why but i just really like the original better

[median cloud]

Many of the doom 2 songs that are remade are worse imo

Some lowkey songs just got metalfied which destroys their original vibe

[crystal hill]

IDKFA is good at making hard rocking music better, but it doesnt tend to do well with the more scary/atmospheric one

[ocean mist]

yeah, anyways i refuse to believe the remastered songs arent made by doom guy when hes not killing demons

[crystal hill]

guess he has the time to be a composer

[ocean mist]

yeah

[crystal hill]

I think Antaresian Legacy cursed me with a stomach ache for not playing it more, lol

[glass bone]

Wait what what does cyriak have to do with doom

[ocean mist]

question,

....wdym blocked by serv- WHAT DOES THAT IMPLY

[halcyon willow]

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Cyriak_Harris_(mouldy)

[woven swallow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1376790283274162206/1476045216841728000/ScytheMAP30UVMAX_ATT-00104.lmp?ex=699fb1bb&is=699e603b&hm=5318b3a2fb05a98fae44568ec6e937aa020b4ea58966ee137db6da9dde95f9a8&
DEMO COMPLETION
IWAD: DOOM2.wad
PWAD: scythe.wad
Skill: 4
Warp: 30
Complevel: 2
Attempts: 104 (jesus christ, i just realized)
Sourceport: Dsda-doom
Wad Download link: https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/megawads/scythe
Demo Author: KennyisALIVE
Map Author: Erik Alm

I can finally call myself a half decent doom player!

[languid quarry]

I'm grabbing some new wads to play, so far I have Plutonia 2, Going Down, Mega man 8bit DM and Golden Souls remastered, what am I missing

[woven swallow]

I recommend NOT playing Plutonia 2..yet (as it is extrmemely hard), Going down however, i recommend playing the Turbo version for it (just some balance changes, much more faster combat, and a little bit more easier for new comers)

[languid quarry]

I'm playing the standard GD right now, it's pretty fun

There's a LOT of fodder enemies lol

Also is megaman 8bit deathmatch usually flagged as a false positive?

[woven swallow]

i don't play much deathmatch mods, i don't know what that is, sorry...

[bitter shoal]

It's actually pretty cool. It uses Megaman sprites and tiles for the graphics and you play as one of the robot masters with their weapon IIRC

It was so long ago since I played it, I don't know if any single player content was ever made for it

[languid quarry]

Nevermind I got it from ModDB instead of the installer

[native anchor]

What order do you all do when playing Master Levels?

[little oar]

Whatever order the stages are in with DOOM 1 + 2
Or if using them each manually, whatever order the .wad files are in the folder (so most likely, alphabetical)

[crystal hill]

He's my favourite Doom mapper. Going Down is fantastic, top 3 wads I've ever played. Overboard is also fantastic, and his other maps are no slouches either

[crystal hill]

As a guy who doesnt usually play deathmatch, it was a lotta fun to go through

Gets a liiiiiittle repetitive by mega man 5 or 6, though. Also also, dont be like me, try to find a way to save your game so you dont lose all your progress accidentally

[woven swallow]

first played it alphabetically...huge mistake

[median cloud]

mm8bdm is more a multiplayer experience rather than single player. (I think?)

[median cloud]

PL2 isn't that much harder than Going Down imo.

Going Down Turbo sure

[median cloud]

I skipped it

It feels like more Sigil compared to Sigil feeling like more Doom if that makes sense

Didn't find the gameplay very fun either

Have you started pistol starting btw?

[crystal hill]

true, but the singleplayer deathmatch campaign is pretty fun

it even has a story

[crystal hill]

I dunno, Plut 2 is quite a bit harder than Going Down

GD has almost exclusively small, short maps. But Plut 2 has some magnus opus type stuff in it

[median cloud]

Which ones? I know map 29 is a long one, but what else

[crystal hill]

Go 4 It, and to a lesser extent The Bloodwall, Arch Violence, Lurking Fear, Aztecorum

the maps in Plut 2 are on average longer than Going Down's, and I think tougher as well

[median cloud]

I think refueling base is one I struggled a bit with

and downtown as well

Rest are doable for sure

22, 23 and 24 can be tougher

I found refueling base tougher but if you have a good route its doable

18-21 arent too hard to pistol start

[median cloud]

@modern peak good that you’re playing Doom this way tho

[median cloud]

Well more than that you cant really do

And this is also the most fun way to git gud

Theres a doomworld skill progression thread

[next fiber]

i just finished doom 2 for the first time today

i've been playing doom for like ~6ish years and have a cd copy of doom 2 but never even finished it for some reason, it was pretty fun for the most part but some levels were annoying

[median cloud]

A lot of levels become a search for "where the f do I go" on first playthrough

[next fiber]

yeah map 28's exit was just ridiculous

[stoic dock]

once you know the exit the level becomes hilariously easy

[next fiber]

i honestly didn't mind downtown that much though, i know that's the infamous one everyone hates

[stoic dock]

I once decided to do nightmare speedruns on the spirit world out of boredom

i think most despised level was the chasm, and I kinda agree with that

tho I didn't like the icon of sin boss fight much either. also, barrels o ''fun''

[next fiber]

the map right before downtown pissed me off so bad bc i got hit w the unluckiest rng ever constantly

[stoic dock]

oh yeah the factory

I don't remember that one
I remember more of my time playing DOOM 2's Master Levels

https://tenor.com/view/cat-thousand-yard-stare-thousand-yard-stare-cat-ptsd-cat-soldier-cat-war-gif-9110270742088459827

[next fiber]

i wasn't rlly a fan of how much more trial-and-errorish doom 2 was to the first one

[stoic dock]

You'll like plutonia then
That's trial and error maxxing

[next fiber]

oh yeah i just can't wait for final doom LOL

[median cloud]

downtown and tenements?

[next fiber]

it seems very interesting but honestly i might save it for last, i'm trying to go like semi-chronological

[median cloud]

I actually find the chasm pretty amazing haha

[stoic dock]

hmm doom 2 master levels might be 'fun'

[stoic dock]

that's good. glad some people can like it

(I remember when I crashed out over teeth.wad, badly)

[median cloud]

I'm not sure which one the second one is haha

I know downtown but can't remember the second one

[next fiber]

although i'm getting a little fatigued from the old doom formula so i might just skip on over to 3 for now and do 64 later

[median cloud]

yeah i'd say if you haven't become a fan by now there's no point in continuing the doom 2 esque gameplay

[next fiber]

i do love it but i spent so much time on doom 2 i think i just need a breather

overall was really good tho, even though i was cursing him multiple times i do appreciate how creative sandy petersen's mapping is

[stoic dock]

Levels i remember disliking (been almost a year since I played any of em):

DOOM 2, The chasm, barrels o fun, Icon of Sin
TNT, ehm, quite a few, Mill, Central processing, administration center, Baron's den, Pharaoh and Caribbean, obligatory Habitat mention (tho I think Habitat is at least entertainingly bad, not to mention the banger song attached to it)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4L7vFC2kgCg

[next fiber]

i'm super excited to get around to final doom sometime soon but getting past 32 levels of tnt seems like a bit of a drag from what i've heard

[stoic dock]

they're tolerable except for a few being pretty unfun

I'd say master levels of doom 2 might be weaker

[median cloud]

if you ever want to return to Classic Doom gameplay you should probably try No Rest For the Living or Plutonia.
TNT is cool but is also a drag on first playthrough
Master levels is horrible

[stoic dock]

(For context, I try my best to play on UV without saves, but sometimes I pull out the savescumming like I did with Express Elevator to Hell)

[median cloud]

I personally love TNT but I kno the maps well enough to know where to go. TNT is a lot more atmospheric so it has its good things

[next fiber]

yea i have very little interest in master levels LOL, i'll probably just play 64 and then plutonia after(?)

not very interested in tnt either, plutonia seems like the star of the show when it comes to final doom

[stoic dock]

Not a fan of plutonia, tho I think 64 is classic doom's finest

[median cloud]

No rest for the living is really good

Plutonia is a bit harder but fun

[next fiber]

9 level wad 😋

i love short wads so much, part of why i love doom 1 so much is its episodic format

[covert swan]

No rest for the living my beloved.

[crystal hill]

NRFTL is really neat

I like Plutonia better, but it's probably more polished

[woven swallow]

you will definitely love sigil

[glass bone]

Is this the same cyriak as the one who makes crazy animations on youtube?

[crystal hill]

the very same

[median cloud]

is it actually?

[crystal hill]

yeah?

[median cloud]

lol it actually is that's pretty cool

I wouldn't expect some bigshot youtuber to make doom maps on the down low

[crystal hill]

he doesn't seem to have anything about his Doom levels on his website, which is a shame

considering he's made my 2nd favourite wad of all time, and another one thats in the top 10, at least

[median cloud]

wait what's your favorite? COuld've sworn it was going down

[crystal hill]

Golden Souls 2

Going Down is my favourite discounting ZDoom wads that arguably don't count

[halcyon willow]

Why would zdoom wads not count

[crystal hill]

some of them are different enough to be arguably not Doom

[halcyon willow]

Ship of thesseus

[crystal hill]

I don't discount all ZDoom wads

ZDoom Community Mapping Project Take 2 is more similar to vanilla Doom than Golden Souls 1 or 2

A wad I'm playing now, the Alfonzone, is pretty vanilla for ZDoom standards

[mellow matrix]

Just finished Blues Brothers 2025. Incredible WAD. There's a ton of variety in gameplay, novel gimmick levels, excellent music choices throughout, masterful pacing, and an undercurrent of mystery that seeps out of every crumbled building and gory flesh construct. There were a couple maps I didn't care for as I thought they saw "challenging but fun" and truncated the second half, but they're blips among many, many well designed fights that the mappers clearly want you to succeed at. A+

[crystal hill]

I've heard good words about it before

[ocean mist]

how does doom 64 guy get out of hell?

[crystal hill]

spoiler: ||he doesn't||

[ocean mist]

SO THEN HOW DOES THE OTHER GAMES HAPPEN

[crystal hill]

I dunno. They're all reboots

[ocean mist]

IF HE STAYS IN HELL SHOULDNT THAT BE THE END OF DOOM? (vega how was i spamming?)

[crystal hill]

reboots

[ocean mist]

:/

[crystal hill]

well, if Doom 2016 follows on from 64, the demons eventually capture him and stick him in the coffin

its been a long time since i played the new dooms, and even when I did i didnt pay much attention to the lore

[ocean mist]

dark ages is a prequel to 2016

so that wouldnt make sense

fuck it, we'll just say he was kicked out of hell by the mother demons sister and landed into a different timeline where the divinity machine was a thing

[crystal hill]

sure, lets go with that

[ocean mist]

that sounds the most reasonable to me

ALSO HOW DOES COMMANDER KEEN FIT INTO THE TIMELINE!?

[crystal hill]

I heard he was an ancestor

but that could very well have been a meme/joke

you seem quite invested in the lore

speak to @nova dawn in #the-codex , he knows way more than I do

[ocean mist]

alr

thanks

[sharp wyvern]

Basically at some point he gets teleported to argent dnur

[ocean mist]

oh so i was right with my "fuck it we'll just say this happened"

[sharp wyvern]

Yea

[ocean mist]

:D

[desert tinsel]

We have a deathmatch server starting up in 5 minutes on Odamex if anyone wants to jump in.

[next fiber]

so i played a bit of doom 16 and realized that i am still itching for classic doom. should i play 64 or final doom first? final doom is first in order of release date but 64 is the more important installment

[crystal hill]

Doom 64 is shorter, so I'd play that first

[halcyon willow]

Have played Doom 2016

[leaden socket]

Hi Chat

[woven swallow]

Hello J

[leaden socket]

some dude said "Hello J"

[woven swallow]

....sooo uhh, what brings you here?

[leaden socket]

GZDoom, I Use That

[crystal hill]

What do you play on it?

[woven swallow]

nice 👍

[median cloud]

I kinda wonder what the hardest WAD was before stuff like sunder existed

[woven swallow]

probably because it's the most well known....

[median cloud]

I guess Deus Vult held this title for a long time

And Holy Hell was also 2006 but I think was more thought of as a joke wad back then

[woven swallow]

Holy hell ?

[woven swallow]

bruh...

[median cloud]

I mean it's true lol

But yeah Holy Hell came to mind

[woven swallow]

scythe2?

maybe...

Hell revealed and hell revealed 2 i guess...

[crystal hill]

??? I asked what, not why

Wasnt the hardest for very long

[median cloud]

I think so actually

I do remember HR, HR2, Scythe 2 known as like the hard af wads

[woven swallow]

my eyes are playing tricks on me i swear

[crystal hill]

HR2 has to be harder, especially when scythe 2 first released

[median cloud]

Im not sure if HR2 is harder than Scythe 2

[crystal hill]

HR2 has hard maps almost from the beginning

Scythe 2 lets you in gently

[median cloud]

True but I think I mean more at its peak

[crystal hill]

I dont judge difficulty based on peaks, I judge it overall

An easy-medium wad that spikes its difficulty isnt going to be harder than a wad that is really tough throughout imo

[median cloud]

Yeah that makes sense otherwise Scythe 1 would be a lot harder

Still I think of as WAD difficulty as how hard it is to beat that wad which does imply how hard it is to beat all maps

Meaning one really hard map can make a wad way harder to beat and thus make it more difficult

But my approach is flawed because of Scythe 1

[crystal hill]

Map 30 really increases how hard I think Scythe 1 is, but its still just one map

Scythe 2 has a handful of maps like that

[median cloud]

Atm Scythe 1 map 30 is my second hardest map I've beaten

Scythe 2 Afterlife II being the first

[crystal hill]

It's on my to beat list, someday

[median cloud]

My top 5 are
Scythe 2 Afterlife II
Scythe Fire and Ice
Scythe 2 Death
Hell Revealed Ascending to the stars
Scythe 2 Whispering Winds

For difficulty

[crystal hill]

I only care to beat Fire and Ice out of that list, lol

Scythe 2 is no doubt superior to Scythe 1, but I like the latter more, personally

Short and easy maps at least are over quickly

[median cloud]

Tbf scythe 2's hard maps aren't terribly long

Only 27 afterlife II took me longer than 30 minutes iirc

26 has like 45 monsters so it's a breeze

unironically fire and ice took me the longest time by faaar

[bitter shoal]

yeah, I loved Scythe 1's pacing but Scythe 2's pacing was still shorter than a typical community megawad where a lot of people take one or two map slots so they have more time to put in a lot of work to make really big maps

[stoic dock]

I was surprised by how deceptive Scythe 1 was. First two episodes, could beat UV saveless, no biggie
Then episode 3 came in

It really lulls you into a false sense of security, and then bam, episode 3 hits hard lol. tough shit but I had fun times playing Scythe

[woven swallow]

man, beating scythe map30 (pistol start, UV-max) was PAINFULLLL

[stoic dock]

yeah I don't think I could ever do that lol

especially not saveless

[woven swallow]

thankfully, i am NEVER touching that level again

[woven swallow]

i did 3 times....sadly, first 2 times i didn't record, 3rd i finally did

[stoic dock]

that's crazy

GGs m8

[woven swallow]

indeed i am

probably not gonna touch the game for like a week, i've been grinding too hard

[woven swallow]

you know how to replay demo files?

[median cloud]

@crystal hill been playing some requiem and it's alright I guess

Feels a bit like TNT

Mtpain27 overrates its difficulty a lot the maps aren't much harder than og doom

[crystal hill]

Surely shorter on average than HR2

[crystal hill]

Gets rougher near the end

Though he also made one map in particular a lot harder for himself for some reason

[crystal hill]

Its pretty good by the standards of it's day

[median cloud]

He has 14 listed as a B+ (the portal) and I didn't find it that hard at all

[crystal hill]

It happens

Some maps he finds easy that I find hard, and vice versa

[median cloud]

Yeah map 18 right now on requiem is pretty tough lol

[median cloud]

wdym? If you pistol start you don't need to save right

For really hard and long levels I'd just save inbetween fights

[languid quarry]

Going down is unhinged

Why so many fodder enemies

So. Many. Zombiemen.

[crystal hill]

The first time I beat jade earth, I saved around the hour mark

[crystal hill]

Its fun to kill em

[crystal hill]

Exactly! Thats part of the appeal

[covert crane]

uhhh whats a popular iwad to use for doom2

[woven swallow]

Look up who the creator is, you will see...

[woven swallow]

Eviternity2

[covert crane]

i see

thanks

[woven swallow]

Also it's pwad not iwad

[languid quarry]

Aren't Iwads the doom games

[woven swallow]

🤓👆

[woven swallow]

Yeah exactly

[median cloud]

goddamn I hated requiem map 21

Didn't even bother maxxing it just hated this level so much

[woven swallow]

low on ammunition?

[median cloud]

No just a puzzle fest

[crystal hill]

What're you looking for?

[covert crane]

well i see tons of videos with speedruns for doom with utilities

and command prompts

[crystal hill]

uhhh

command prompts are a source port thing

[crystal hill]

hey, could you name the maps in future, instead of using just numbers? I need to look them up every time, lol

[median cloud]

You remember them by name?

[crystal hill]

Well, not all the time. But I'm more likely to remember the name than the number, yeah?

[median cloud]

Its Den of the skull

[crystal hill]

For example, if you said "Aztecorum" from Plutonia 2, I know exactly which map that is. But if you told me "map 23" from Plut 2, I'd have to wrack my brain to figure out which it is

[crystal hill]

thank you

that's one I don't remember, lol

[median cloud]

I work differently then I remember stuff like Av map 25 or pl2 map 20/29

But idk the names often

(I do know av 25 is demonic hordes tbh lol)

[crystal hill]

interesting. In that case, stick to the numbers if you're more comfortable with those

I just tend to find names more memorable.

[woven swallow]

https://youtu.be/L94DpMsIf7k here is a good tutorial not made by me

[median cloud]

Makes sense

[covert crane]

thxx

[crystal hill]

"Black Ice", I can immediately link that to the map with it's name

but I wouldn't be sure of which number it has in the map order

have I mentioned that I'm fond of Plutonia 2? Because I'm fond of Plutonia 2

[woven swallow]

i recommend, making a separate folder for you wad folder

[covert crane]

aigh

[woven swallow]

in your doom wad folder

i can't share the link....

[covert crane]

its alr i have message logger

[woven swallow]

check your dms

[crystal hill]

that level pissed me off so much when I was first starting

both the pain elementals dealing too much damage and not knowing how to deal with the pinkie hordes

I think that's fair

playing a vanilla wad with vanilla comp levels should come with advantages and disadvantages

[median cloud]

I think you should play on the complevel which is advised for each wad

You can use this website: https://dsdarchive.com/ and search the wad, whatever cl they use for demos is the right one

The usual complevels you use are 2, 9, 11 and 21

Doom 2 uses cl2 as do many other wads
Some wads like Sunder, Ancient Aliens use cl9
Eviternity cl11
Eviternity 2, Legacy of Rust cl21

dsda doom makes switching between complevels pretty easy

[crystal hill]

then you have uzdoom players who don't give a shit and play everything the same way

[median cloud]

Lost soul limit just makes a huge difference

Barrels o fun without lost soul limit is probably 100x harder

[crystal hill]

it is

but thats what I get for playing with gz/uzdoom all the time

[median cloud]

Not sure if you can easily change complevel in that port? Or is it manually changing all the individual settings?

Maybe that's why people don't use these ports for SP usually

[crystal hill]

there are comp levels, but you need to change them manually and even then it's not the same

There are sometimes settings to make you unable to jump/crouch by default

[median cloud]

Oh yeah just change it before starting a WAD

[woven swallow]

if you have a launcher or batch file then yeah

[median cloud]

wdym? I just go into options and change it there

[mossy halo]

I love these 3 games.

Praise be the 1990s

[crystal hill]

oh wow

I'm sure there's something there on other difficulties

[median cloud]

Oh I always do 100% kills I do understand not doing it for annoying monsters

but I think a part of pistol starting is also maxxing it

[median cloud]

I think its a dm secret with a bfg

[halcyon willow]

Only if you want it to be

I never worry about maxing maps

[median cloud]

I mean I understand but just running past all fights to finish a map is also not the way Id play Doom

[halcyon willow]

That's not what I said either

[median cloud]

I know Im not implying you did but paron implied that he was running past the enemies to finish the map

Which, you do you, does affect the gameplay imo

[halcyon willow]

Skipping fights can make the level harder

I often design a series of encounters that give the player the option to rush through, but will make subsewquent encounters more chaotic as the enemy count builds and fills more of the play space

[native anchor]

You can run past the pinkies?

[crystal hill]

you can kill some of them and leave the rest

[median cloud]

Thats true

Im just not a fan of speeding through a level

[stoic dock]

unfortunately no, sadly

[median cloud]

did you find the chasm challenging?

Its pretty low on ammo

Also anything you've planned to do next

[woven swallow]

Check your dms

[median cloud]

Any good wad recommendations yall have?

[woven swallow]

Heartland and We have doom at home

[median cloud]

I had the same thing

I maxed it and was like "wow I never explored this part of the map"

what u gonna play next?

[woven swallow]

You are ready for it then 👍

that is assuming if you've already beaten all the other ones

[median cloud]

u played plutonia through?

[languid quarry]

All I got is Mega Man, Myhouse and Going down

[median cloud]

its a good challenge

some time 1-2 years ago I decided to pistol start all classic iwads so I have experience

imo go 2 it still the hardest map

Map 10 onslaught is a pain, map 12 speed is also hard

I use guides often or cheats

iddt shows secrets in automap with a purple line that sometimes can tell u were to look

did u not play any of the secret maps then?

[twin mortar]

The DOOM II ones are my favorite cuz I love Wolf3D

[median cloud]

Missing out on the plutonia secret levels is something you cant do

Theyre like the ultimate gateway into custom mappacks

It does its meh

Bleh just use the level select for map 31

I would just advise you to atleast experience those two maps

31 isnt as egregious but it sets a nice tone and is still a cool map imo

32 is bonkers

Would just be a shame if you were to get burnt out from Doom before playing Go 2 It

[crystal hill]

I think I gave you all mine already

Play Going Down again, it's worth it

and then pray to whichever deity you believe in for Cyriak to make another megawad

[ocean mist]

i wonder why the reload animation for the ssg in 64 looks like that 🤔

[stoic dock]

hardware limitations sadly

[ocean mist]

damn

also rip revenant in doom 64... very sad (also chaingunner)

[stoic dock]

N64 cartridges were very smol. N64 was a strong console (stronger than PS1), but whereas PS1 discs had 700 mb, N64 discs had like 12-16 mb of space on average, sometimes 24-32, very occasionally 64, but def not much

so compromises had to be made. but like they say, limitation breeds creativity

[ocean mist]

you could fit the entirety of doom 1 onto the n64 disc, and still have space

[stoic dock]

that is true

[crystal hill]

well, the N64 doesn't have discs, which was the issue

[stoic dock]

tho you can fit the entirety of doom 1 on just about anything. it fit on a SNES. now does it play well? Hm. but it's a technical marvel

[crystal hill]

nintendo went with cartridges for a few reasons

[ocean mist]

right cartridges

[crystal hill]

hence the "can it play doom" memes

[stoic dock]

pregnancy test 🔥

[ocean mist]

pretty sure someones played it on a toaster

[stoic dock]

absolutely

tho I humored the idea of playing the SNES version out of curiosity. I do know the soundtrack rendition is really good

[ocean mist]

and you can play it if you hook up enough potatoes

[stoic dock]

that fella made that one video and hasn't been seen since

one of his videos before that was him making ai-generated video game sprites with an ai he wrote (in 2020). bro was waay to ahead

[ocean mist]

one of these days ai is gonna go AM on us, it holds all of the internet after all

https://tenor.com/view/caffeinecaravan-cogito-ergo-sum-i-am-therefore-i-am-gif-9299504362544689271

[crystal hill]

can't wait

hopefully the bubble pops before it can get there

[ocean mist]

cant wait for I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream to become real 😄

[crystal hill]

well, odds are you arent one of the last 6 people alive

so there's that

anyways, doom, its great

[stoic dock]

might get back into doom later, currently busy with dead space and resident evil

Will def get back to dark ages when the DLC comes out

[crystal hill]

I've been playing classic doom for like 14 months straight

[ocean mist]

i love playing doom 1 + 2 the built in mods are very nice

[crystal hill]

its a great intro to new fans

that and giving easy access to mods

[ocean mist]

boy i sure do love playing fucking doom 2016 in doom 2 😄

[crystal hill]

its neat

but I prefer map wads, not gameplay stuff

[ocean mist]

the mod i use doesnt change anything other than textures and replaces the weapons with the 3d models of the 16 weapons made into a 2d sprite

oh and it replaces the zombiemen in the first level with possesed

[crystal hill]

aesthetic mods I can jive with

[ocean mist]

i also like the mod that makes your weapons cs:go models

[crystal hill]

fair nuff

I havent played that game ever, so I dont know what they look like

[ocean mist]

i find mods that make your weapons actual 3d sprites so funny because it looks so out of place

[crystal hill]

yeah, I can see that lol

[cunning compass]

Currently playing my first play through of Doom and took the shortcut at E2M5 to E2M9 and the second I loaded in I hopped off 💀

[restive slate]

finally beat episode one

[jovial wing]

😬

fortress of mystery

[unique crown]

https://tenor.com/view/doom-doom-2-retro-gaming-pain-elemental-gif-15567657007096176461

[median cloud]

I followed your advice and played both 01 and 02

died on both maps once lol

Forgot partial invis on map 1 and on map 2 I was just not ready I guess

[crystal hill]

Well, they are a bit hit scan heavy

I die frequentlyish on those too, but theyre really not bad

[median cloud]

Yeah they're definitely not what I would consider hard it's just a playstyle you gotta get used to

You don't expect map 02 to be FLOODED with hitscans

[crystal hill]

that's just the beginning of the madness that is going down

you dont expect a lot of shit in that one

[median cloud]

Started like so many different wads as well

Eviternity, Deus Vult II, Going Down, Nostalgia and Requiem are all ongoing

[crystal hill]

I try to keep my number of wads played to a minimum

[median cloud]

Evi, DVII are probably on hiatus for a good while

[crystal hill]

even three at a time is a bit much

[median cloud]

I will most likely focus on Going Down now

[crystal hill]

good choice 👍

[median cloud]

then after that... I don't know

[crystal hill]

you can finish off one of these

[median cloud]

Bleh just don't really want to play those haha

Nostalgia is fine, pretty fun but really easy

To the point I can just play it like a dumbass guns blazing and still finish the maps

There's a fun part about playing that way though

[crystal hill]

exactly

[median cloud]

DVII I only want to do Map 21 and not even that much

Eviternity just didn't have its hold on me this time around

[crystal hill]

I've got an Adam Windsor wad on the bench, just as a pallete cleanser from harder wads

[median cloud]

and Requiem I play occasionally

[median cloud]

Nostalgia is a good breeze through

Maybe I just gotta play Sunlust

[crystal hill]

Maybe you could play Avactor

the maps are long as hell, but it looks really nice. I gave up myself because I dont allow myself to use saves, and I can't see myself beating multiple hour long maps

[median cloud]

Oh wow Decino started doom with hell revealed

Maybe I should play HR again lol

[crystal hill]

does he know?

[median cloud]

Play go 2 it first

[fossil plaza]

I played doom inside eternal and got to the 3rd mission but i didn't save and died it was pretty fun and addicting though ngl

[main totem]

Hi

[woven swallow]

Hello

[woven swallow]

very good choice, i recommend it, kinda hard from the start but it's manageable....until map 14s to 30

[median cloud]

Going Down keeping up its streak of killing me once per map

streak ended with map 4 haha

[crystal hill]

its a lil tough

just the right amount, if you ask me

[median cloud]

I do better at these traditional hard maps than some of these gimmick ones

Did 07 on a first try and it was way harder than all the others where I died

[crystal hill]

I remember triggering something that broke it the first few times I played it

could've been a GZDoom thing

its a very cramped map, but very doable if you know how to hunker down

[median cloud]

he seems to like his cramped combat

but Im not too bad at it at times

[crystal hill]

I like it too. Besides, there's more open areas later in the wad

[mighty walrus]

@crystal hill #tech-talk message

[crystal hill]

Well... I don't know what advice to give, other than learning to play the game

[mighty walrus]

yeah I'd say if you want immediate answers look at a YouTube walk through

cuz I forgot lol

[median cloud]

@warm wolf what do you find hard about it? Some general tips for Doom is to make sure you have always run on

and don't play keyboard only but I guess that advice is super dated anyway

[glass bone]

Prison level in tnt is pretty tough, or maybe its that im being too perfectionist and keep quickloading every time i get hit

[median cloud]

its a tough map to pistol start but not sure if thats what you're doing

Nice maaaaaan how did you enjoy it?

Yeah thats a big thing for doom maps

no saves?

You do have a lot of time on it so you probably played it pretty safe

Ive never really played it safe so maybe thats why I consider it the hardest official doom map

map 12 of plut can be a pain to pistol start but for different reaosns

I just find the cybers in tiny doors the dangerous parts

thats fair

Original doom in itself isn't that difficult

ehhh idk if its gambling

I havent played go 2 it in a long time tbh

so, what next? Taking a small break from doom now?

which ones are on your radar?

requiem is pretty dated

Plutonia 2 is cool, eviternity as well

[wintry copper]

Requiem's also pretty rough around the edges, 3 of the levels in it were also meant for Demonfear but were donated to Requiem so that it'd reach the full 32 maps

[median cloud]

I think I can guess which one

theres a map I think map 19 that has like 20 monsters in it lol

[crystal hill]

thats adam windsor through and through

[median cloud]

Its map 20

[wintry copper]

maps 20, 25 and 26 are the Demonfear maps

also btw the names of 25 and 26 got accidentally swapped

[median cloud]

Yeah 20 makes a lot of sense that was so short and so easy

[glass bone]

No i have most guns, its mainly me being a perfectionist and not wanting to take damage

[wintry copper]

yeah all of the maps in Demonfear are like that, very short

bc of him submitting the maps that he had made so far to Requiem the 6th and final episode of the WAD that those were supposed to be a part of didn't come out until 1999

[ocean mist]

how are you genuinely supposed to be hit by the cyber demon in e4m9? like you're literally in an open space

just shoot it until it dies

...ok im sorry that wasnt funny

[median cloud]

Super ez map

Ive played so much Going Down today

[crystal hill]

Good man

[mossy halo]

Doom...

It calls to me.

But I must hold off. An entire God of War and Metroid series binge is in order.

[ocean mist]

funfact! the hell knight doesnt contain the call "facetarget" meaning if it switches targets last second, it will shoot a fireball out of its ass

[ocean mist]

(thank you decino for teaching me this)

[torpid yacht]

Is eviternity map22 specifically on the blue key fight bugged on ps5?

[native anchor]

Why doesn't the BFG grab trick in E4M2 work in KexDoom?

[bitter shoal]

Modern source ports usually fix bugs like that

and in stuff like ZDOOM you have to toggle them back on (and even then I think it doesn't get every quirk? Especially particular niche ones)

[native anchor]

And also, what resolution did Doom 64 originally run on?

[leaden socket]

i love doom

[native anchor]

Lowest the Kex port can go is 640x480. I assume N64 ran on that resolution.

And the Kex port is really the only version people play on nowadays, so it is pretty much Chocolate Doom 64.

Whereas, EX has stuff like free look.

[woven swallow]

it does

it's just very precise

i've done it before

[native anchor]

It's easier to pull off in Chocolate Doom.

[bitter shoal]

I hiiiiiighly doubt N64 did ran 640x480. One of the perks of PC gaming at the time was running that resolution compared to consoles

it did have a 640x480 mode though

so maybe I'm wrong for DOOM 64 specifically

[native anchor]

Well, it doesn't really matter nowadays. The Kex port can be easily played in 1080p.

And even for a sourceport like Chocolate Doom, it's still possible to see stuff.

And for vanilla Doom 3, you can use Lossless Scaling to rescale a 4:3 resolution.

Unless you use console commands for widescreen.

[bitter shoal]

yeah, it is just that video modes for a PC port wouldn't be indicative of what the original hardware was doing.

[native anchor]

Yes. Although Doom 1+2’s Kex port does have an option for you to turn widescreen on or off. Whereas for Doom 64, you have to change the game resolution to a 4:3 one if you really wanna use 4:3.

And even framerate also isn’t much concern. Although I tend not to really play above 60 FPS for Classic Doom. I don’t think you really need to do so.

[edgy salmon]

Uzdoom the better port.

[crystal hill]

Ehhh. It changes too much for some people

[idle wasp]

I say lzdoom

You can get it. Looking as good as uzdoom

Or you can have it even more optimized than uzdoom

[crystal hill]

UZDoom works fine for me, I don't feel like switching

Says on the downloads page that it doesn't have all the features of the latest UZ/GZDoom branches

[idle wasp]

99.9% of the mods I run, work though.

[crystal hill]

Most of them would work in something like woof, I reckon

[idle wasp]

Surprisingly enough lillth.pk3 does too, when you're in the software rendering mode.

[crystal hill]

Or if you do mean gameplay mods, I reckon they're older ones

[crystal hill]

Thats neat, but I already played it on ZDoom. Total novelty, I dont want to play it again

[idle wasp]

Mainly shit you can find a modDB.

[crystal hill]

Could be anything on there

[idle wasp]

https://www.moddb.com/games/doom/addons/dbp16-cybs-freaky-colonoscopy-soundtrack-remastered

Including my own shit

[crystal hill]

Pretty sure that could be played on any port

Its a limit removing wad

[idle wasp]

Chocolate Doom doesn't work

It crashes

[crystal hill]

Again, limit removing

[idle wasp]

Yeah well I'm just the guy who made me at the entire soundtrack.

[crystal hill]

If chocolate doom doesnt support removing limits in the vanilla exe, then it wouldnt play this

[idle wasp]

Dm me, I wanna share something I've not uploaded yet to mod DB

[idle wasp]

Or I can dm you

[crystal hill]

Go ahead

[idle wasp]

Check dm's

[woven swallow]

Now I'm curious, what was it?

[woven swallow]

Ohh a mod

[median cloud]

@crystal hill Cyriak loves his "flood caves with monsters" combat

[stuck badger]

Are there any doom mods that turn doom into an immersive sim like deus ex, system shock 2 or.prey?

[median cloud]

Im at map 22 of going down now

On average all these maps are really good, Cyriak loves his rocket splatter combat which is very satisfying

the maps are also pretty short which is nice imo

[median cloud]

dang you're also grinding the mappacks

I have yet to finish sigil 2, just doesnt appeal to me. Did you pistol start?

Going ancient aliens/eviternity next?

iirc I found the first map of Sigil II one of the hardest ones

What did you think @modern peak

e6m6 was a pain iirc

I think I played e6m1-e6m3 and e6m6

skipped the rest

[mellow matrix]

the whole wad was a pain. No one plays DooM for the ammo scarcity

[median cloud]

Yeah SIgil was similar but less egregious

The only way to make doom 1 combat hard is with ammo starvation and tight corridor barons

[mellow matrix]

Sigil 1 was a much better take on his design ethos yea

[median cloud]

if you're ready to go custom mappacks I'd try Eviternity/Ancient Aliens next

they're a slight step up from plutonia difficulty and are generally amazing mappacks

both are S tier

Ah I thought you were purely an iwad player lol

my b

[median cloud]

@crystal hill think I share your opinion on going down being perfect difficulty wise

Its slightly harder than Ancient Aliens. I’m surprised how much mtpains difficulty ratings align with mine especially when looking at the total wad

[bitter shoal]

wow, that's a coincidence. After me and I think Camembeire playing Scythe 2, a channel I subbed to is about to play it

[crystal hill]

glad you finally see the light

[idle wasp]

Thoughts on final doomer?

[median cloud]

Havent played it

[median cloud]

Improversgaming? :p

[idle wasp]

Oh my God, do I need to send you a copy.

[idle wasp]

I'll literally link you to my Google drive

[bitter shoal]

yep

[woven swallow]

it's a zdoom gameplay mod

[median cloud]

I can google it haha

[median cloud]

Yeah hes been a reason why I started grinding wads

[bitter shoal]

Good channel. Scythe 2 might be the first playthrough of his I manage to fully watch maybe (assuming it is not a blind run), cause it was one that I hadn't already watched Decino do

[median cloud]

Yeah decino never played it

[native anchor]

Chocolate Doom is just vanilla Doom for newbies. It doesn't need DOSBox.

And all the same bells and whistles as vanilla.

[median cloud]

Its nice for vanilla experience but Ive moved to crispy doom

[native anchor]

Crispy Doom is also my main option. Although I use KexEngine for Steam Deck since NativeMIDI for Chocolate or Crispy does not work on Steam Deck.

I assume it's because of SteamOS being immutable.

[idle wasp]

I have a question

What do you think, doomguy is wearing underwear wise underneath his pants

[twin mortar]

What

[crystal hill]

uhh

[mellow matrix]

Arceon completed. Fun 90 minute wad in the style of BTSX. Otex textures and mostly run'n'gun combat with occasional set piece fights thrown in. Not terribly difficult and a great choice for a break/transition wad.

[woven swallow]

IWAD: DOOM2.wad
PWAD: arceon.wad
Download link: https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/arceon
Complevel: 9
Sourceport: Woof!
Map author: DMPhobos

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1167762378197311528/1477378131949256895/Tg3ICSL.png?ex=69a48b1b&is=69a3399b&hm=c43527de975843328b0bef83c39c0843272f842ad45dc4150468cb3807f7d8f9&

[ocean mist]

romero's head and commander keen have a mass of 10 mil to keep them from moving around when you shoot em

also romero's head has a chance less than 1% to not enter his pain state

[crystal hill]

so sometimes you hit him, but don't realise it

that really fucks with full game speedruns

[ocean mist]

yeah

also, red and green player bots in 64 will always gib upon death (probably to make the intro more violent)

[halcyon willow]

Total Chaos is the closest I can think of to that

[ocean mist]

funfact! the revenant may not be in 64, but its rockets are! and they can make sharper turns

[twin mortar]

Lots of fun facts today

[ocean mist]

i love knowing things

[twin mortar]

The ultimate gift

[ocean mist]

real

romero's head isnt the one spawning the cubes, its actually an invisible eye

sorry no not eye i meant actor

oopsies

also (i cant remember if ive mentioned this before) you can put the entirety of doom 1 onto an n64 cartridge, and still have room for more games

you can fit around 1-29 copies depending on the cartridge

you can also softlock yourself in this one map i cant remember the name of by killing 2 arachnatrons at once, or by killing more than needed thanks to respawning monsters

[little oar]

MAP07 Dead Simple

[ocean mist]

yeah thx

[little oar]

Iirc you can still exit it and get onto that final pedestal you just have to do the diagonal run for speed to make the jump

[ocean mist]

also, the sound for the plasma gun isnt random! it depends on the tick

[native anchor]

Why do we even need all these sourceports out there? All I need is the DOS version through Steam.

And DOSBox is included with Doom + Doom II so you can use that.

Mainly for the setup.

[crystal hill]

I think most of them are superfluous, but if people wanna make them, that's their choice

[native anchor]

The only main one I end up using often is UZDoom, but obviously just for mods like Brutal Doom.

And KexEngine as well for custom WADs or when I wanna play on Steam Deck.

Those are pretty much the only 2 sourceports anyone would ever need. Otherwise, just use DOSBox.

[crystal hill]

that's a bad take

[ocean mist]

what exactly is freedoom?

[native anchor]

Well, okay. Something like Chocolate Doom is good for if you want QOL improvements while having a very vanilla experience. Like always run for example. Or there's DSDA for demo recording. But those are some pretty specific examples for me.

[crystal hill]

yeah, but they're valid

there's also ports like Eternity with a handful of wads made for them

and the multiplayer ports

[ocean mist]

is it just doom but free?

[crystal hill]

yes*

it was made to let people play custom wads for free, using it as a base rather than doom 1 or 2

[ocean mist]

oh

neat!

[native anchor]

Yes, but it obviously does not look like Doom at all.

I think.

[ocean mist]

yeah i know the sprites are different (i played a mod on doom 1 + 2 that replaces sprites with free dooms sprites)

i just wanted to know if it was literally just doom but free

[crystal hill]

no, that would be illegal

[ocean mist]

no i mean like, basically doom but free i didnt mean exactly doom (sorry im bad at not being vague)

[halcyon willow]

Freedoom started as a free license asset pack so people could play deathmatch without needing to buy doom

[woven swallow]

Freedoom

Yeah?

[halcyon willow]

It's now got its own episodes

[ocean mist]

oh ok

i love deathmatch its so unserious and silly sometimes

[halcyon willow]

It's good fun

[ocean mist]

i also find how corpses just fly in doom lol

[native anchor]

Obviously not.

[ocean mist]

ok i get it the questions been answered

[woven swallow]

They have their own feel, look and own unique features

[halcyon willow]

Good luck playing 95% of custom wads

[native anchor]

That's what KexEngine is for.

[halcyon willow]

Nop

[native anchor]

Not that I play a lot of custom WADs.

[halcyon willow]

Kex engine can't play the majority of custom wads

[woven swallow]

Kex engine can't even run most wads properly....

[halcyon willow]

It will also not be updated, so when new features are added to existing formats it will be able to play even fewer custom wads

[twin mortar]

For me personally Kex is indeed enough because I don't really play mods. But I absolutely see the appeal in basically every source port, there's something for everyone, and that is great

[native anchor]

Well, there is still Crispy Doom and UZDoom.

[crystal hill]

UZDoom doesnt run everything properly

there being 2000 source ports doesnt really affect you

[native anchor]

Then just Crispy Doom.

[woven swallow]

Crispy doom supports only vanilla engines and limit removing wads

[crystal hill]

Crispy Doom also doesnt run everything properly

[native anchor]

Woof?

[woven swallow]

That works

[crystal hill]

you are really anal about this

[ocean mist]

doom 1 + 2s achievements can be obtained even when using cheats

[crystal hill]

unfortunately

[ocean mist]

i find that odd

[native anchor]

Yeah, that's weird AF.

You can literally just IDKFA and IDDQD every level.

[ocean mist]

like, why reward someone for taking a shallow win?

[little oar]

This is exactly why there's so many source ports
You can't have a catch-all, every port appeals to different specifics of people. This is what makes DOOM so fun, there is a source port out there that tailors to specifically what you want out of your game

[native anchor]

And I believe UZDoom lets you use cheats on Nightmare difficulty.

[twin mortar]

Which is a good thing

[native anchor]

It's like Linux. There are just so many versions available.

[woven swallow]

A friend told me about this after I got all achievements legitimately.....

[ocean mist]

lol

[little oar]

And just like Linux, that's why it's a good thing
You pick your flavor of what you want and don't have to worry about the others outside specific scenarios/mods

[ocean mist]

also, e2m2 can softlock you if you have enough health and armor when you go to the crusher (i think it was e2m2)

no wait it was e2m4

[native anchor]

Well, most people would just start out on Linux Mint, and for good reason.

[native anchor]

Yes, that's correct.

[woven swallow]

Maybe I should re-watch all of Decino's analysis videos...

[ocean mist]

i have them playing in the background rn

[woven swallow]

I've completely forgotten most of them...

[ocean mist]

i love listening to decino ramble

his voice is just very nice

[native anchor]

https://youtu.be/zA-TJxkgZuU

[ocean mist]

theres a lot of areas where saving and loading fucks you up jeez

[native anchor]

It's especially obvious when doing save-scumming.

But I feel like just using saves during a level makes the games lose some of the challenge. Dying and being fored to pistol start the level is a pretty integral part of the game. And having beaten Doom 1 and 2 without using saves, it feels way more fun that way.

[ocean mist]

whats save scumming? (my keyboard skipped the s and i almost didnt notice 😭)

[livid light]

basically saving and loading multiple times in a level

[ocean mist]

oh

[native anchor]

Just way more saves than lord Gaben can count up to.

[ocean mist]

lol

[native anchor]

And I guess pistol starting every level too, but I only do that for demo recording.

[ocean mist]

oh is demo recording the things that play when idle on the title screen?

[native anchor]

Yes.

[ocean mist]

oh neat

[woven swallow]

Yeah pretty much

[native anchor]

And you can record your own.

[woven swallow]

It basically records player inputs and plays them back using the engine

[finite crag]

Classic Doom is the best Doom

[native anchor]

You mainly use DSDA-Doom for this, and then type in the right command lines (Or use a launcher you can download separate), load into any level and start playing.

[ocean mist]

i swear some of the recordings are just so bad 😭 i once watched someone just walk accross that little river of toxic green sludge for the entire thing until i started the game

[native anchor]

Not just any Classic Doom. VANILLA.

"The way it was meant to be played"

[finite crag]

GET OUT

[ocean mist]

say, what does "use multiplayer items" even do?

[native anchor]

It adds items unique to deathmatch or co-op in the level.

[woven swallow]

It spawns items from multiplayer doom

[livid light]

deathmatch uses different item positions, and that flag forces it to use them in singleplayer

[ocean mist]

oh

i wonder why that one archvile used for the skull skip is named barney...

[woven swallow]

Because he's the only good Archie, he deserves a name

[ocean mist]

true dat

say, how do you get into the secret levels again? i lowk forgot

[livid light]

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Secret_level

[ocean mist]

thanks

anyways, sandy fucked up the icons right side textures, accidentally making it 264x128 instead of the 256x128 used for the other parts, making a noticeble line in the wall

which is pretty funny

[woven swallow]

https://youtu.be/ZvpPf8G84yE?si=3Y6X_EWqoKdctKWv

[native anchor]

Is there a way to turn off vertical mouse movement in Vanilla Doom?

As in, the DOS version via Steam or DOSBox?

[livid light]

i dont know a lot about it but theres a file in doomworld called novert which has helped a few people

[native anchor]

Link for it?

[livid light]

https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/utils/misc/novert

[crystal hill]

thats not very vanilla of you

[native anchor]

Because I saw this video. https://youtu.be/zA-TJxkgZuU

And some others by Doomkid.

[crystal hill]

exactly

if you insist on playing dos, wanting to then modify the dos version kind of goes against your intention

It's like me demanding I be sold a very very specific car

no other one will do, specifically this car

but then I immediately want to replace the engine, or the doors, or some shit

[woven swallow]

Download novert

[crystal hill]

surely this is where a source port could be useful?

[woven swallow]

https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/utils/misc/novert

[crystal hill]

exactly the same as dos doom, but it disables vertical mouse movement

[native anchor]

And enables always run.

[crystal hill]

Yeah

now do you see where a lot of source ports can be helpful?

[median cloud]

Just play crispy

[native anchor]

It's not that bad.

I mean, Chocolate Doom is like vanilla+.

[median cloud]

Makes no sense why he has sunder above the likes of deus vult 2 and sunlust tbh

[ocean mist]

im trying to play this mod which makes it a hostage situation with actual hostages, and if one dies it ends the level and brings you to the brig, BUT IT DOESNT MATTER IF YOU ARE THE CAUSE OR NOT. (you can guess where that goes, infighting!!! and because the hostages have 1 hp, THERES NOTHING I CAN FUCKING DO)

[native anchor]

Does NativeMIDI in Chocolate Doom work in other Linux distros? It didn’t work for me on Steam Deck.

[ocean mist]

the radiation suit can sometimes fail

and this is on purpose

[native anchor]

That’s supposed to happen.

[ocean mist]

i just said that

[native anchor]

For floors that deal 20% damage.

[ocean mist]

very low chance though

it also doesnt protect you from special damaging floors

despite the red screen ending after 20 seconds, beserk lasts until the end of the level

god mode doesnt protect you from telefragging

[native anchor]

Telefragging and Icon of Sin cube things deal 1000 damage.

[ocean mist]

i learned that when i was fucking around with a voodoo doll outside the map, i accidentally telefragged myself and i just died (even with iddqd on)

why doesnt the revenant have a gib?

....oh yeah hes just bones

nvm

[idle wasp]

Could someone help me? I need help with knowing how to upscale a sprite.

Can't send images so if anyone could please respond and let me get them into a dm, please respond.

[torpid yacht]

Ok im at the Olympus in eviternity now

I escaped Hades underworld

Ascended to Olympus I guess

🫡

[bitter shoal]

meanwhile, Mortal Kombat 3:

[hearty gorge]

he could still have a gib even if he's just bones. if he crumbled down into a pile of bones as a gib animation it'd be incredible ngl

[native anchor]

Only Zombiemen, Shotgunners, and Imps can gib when they get hit with enough damage., among some others. https://youtu.be/vEPbqEzRDZM

[native anchor]

There is one oddly specific benefit Vanilla/DOS Doom has over Chocolate is when you select Master Levels, you get a menu to select what Master Level to play on and you'll be taken straight up that level.

Compared to any other sourceport meanwhile, you have to drag a Master Level WAD to the executable and type IDCLEV to play it.

[bitter shoal]

isn't that just because compilations like D!ZONE, Master Levels, etc (and techically DOOM proper because you can use multiplayer setup I think it was to select a map) have dedicated software to basically run the command line for you? I think there is soft ware that does the equivalent of command line running for modern source ports, isn't there?

[native anchor]

I'm not sure.

Although, GZDoom/UZDoom has the ZDoom interface for Master Levels. https://youtu.be/RgUL9ZVoz7g

Although it is in UZDoom, it's not an accurate representation of Vanilla Doom, to quote Decino.

[native anchor]

Actually, I just discovered is that Master Levels in DOS uses what's called DOOMIT.

And it's a third party software specifically for Master Levels. Makes sense considering Master Levels is just a compilation of random WADs by people contracted by Id Software.

But also, there were a bunch of unofficial WAD packs before Master Levels was even released.

[bitter shoal]

yeah, they come with their own wad selectors as well I believe

as did a lot of shareware compilations

you would do the same thing with a modern source port, use like a mod manager or something that will do the command line interfacing for you

already one program that does it is a map editor

[woven swallow]

https://youtu.be/-IYz6-KnvWU?si=tKxhHwz3eP57hRrA

[bitter shoal]

this is the only valid misleading clickbait

it is the only one I allow

[native anchor]

Right, Chocolate Doom for example has a launcher available so it simplifies WAD selecting.

You have to download it separate since it's unofficial, but you have the option.

Although I doubt any of those launchers really work on Linux. At least, not without using Proton, and instead using native Linux builds for Chocolate Doom and what not.

You're gonna have to resort to commands and shortcuts on Linux.

And pray to Linus that NativeMIDI will work on your distro. Because it sure as hell does not on SteamOS.

[warped wind]

Imagine if doom had particle effects specifically for revenant damage
Blue blood for cacos, green blood for nobles and now Cheeto dust for revenants

[native anchor]

Most of that you can do in Crispy Doom.

[edgy salmon]

@warped wind hey I think the demons stole my pants.

[warped wind]

Interesting. They gave me something instead.
They gave me a permanent nose bleed!

I've made the most of it though
got so many fricking badges from my local blood banks rn

[edgy salmon]

And...

[warped wind]

I think I prefer Doom Retro over Crispy

[edgy salmon]

I prefer crispy

[warped wind]

Doom retro has this cool blood effect that I can't seem to find anywhere else

It seems to be similar to the Droplets mod, but I'm not sure if they differ

[edgy salmon]

There doesn't seem to be a native Linux port however

In my experience on it from Windows

I still prefer crispy Doom

[warped wind]

Hmm yeah

I've tried getting into other sourceports but the neat little addons that uzdoom supports keeps holding me back

https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=63863

[edgy salmon]

I completely understand that.

If you're going to play other ports, just keep it simple, no over-the-top crap just basically vanilla really.

[warped wind]

Take a look at this. This is the main thing I needed.

[edgy salmon]

Hmm

[warped wind]

My uzdoom setups are generally vanilla gameplay focused
I only add stuff to improve the base experience

[edgy salmon]

That seems to be the HUD they use in final Doomer.

[edgy salmon]

Honestly, I'm more of a person who wants to add way to many mods because watching old game struggle funny because I have like 100 different helper mods on at once.

Sorry if you had a stroke reading that

[warped wind]

Hey, I use final doomer too to play those 7 megawads
FD only has these dynamic statusbars for those specific wads. Same for any other hud mod that only detects the wad, then replaces the statusbar with its own. This is the only mod that dynamically splits the statusbar of any wad's custom statusbar

[warped wind]

In that case I'd like you to try out this weapons pack called spaghetti weapons
Couple that with Corruption Cards and you've got a pretty chaotic experience

[edgy salmon]

I have corruption cards

[warped wind]

I won't spoil everything, but it includes a slot machine pump shotgun

[edgy salmon]

If you want a worse time, extreme weapons pack + corruption cards on chaos.

[warped wind]

https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=69407

[warped wind]

I did check out extreme weapons pack too XD
It makes the experience more painful, that's it

[edgy salmon]

I mean about the only thing useful is the electric toothbrush

Because once that baby gets purring oh my God there's no stopping you.

[warped wind]

Spaghetti actually makes the game playable and even fun
Just make sure the wad you're playing isn't too hard

[warped wind]

The poke melee is the funniest thing to me

[edgy salmon]

Map of chaos usually a hard one for me.

[edgy salmon]

That's from abort I think

[warped wind]

oh, maybe you're right

[warped wind]

That wad is ridiculous with any gameplay wad
I've seen people play that thing with brutal doom/project brutality and I just don't see how they can make it through downtown

Maps of chaos is pretty fun vanilla though

[edgy salmon]

It is, however you can make your life pain by running angrier enemies.

[warped wind]

I really can't sit through a wad with both custom weapon sprites and huds
Can't be missing out of a few rows of pixels from the weapon sprites that become hidden by the statusbar

[warped wind]

Aggressive monsters you mean?

[edgy salmon]

No

[edgy salmon]

https://www.moddb.com/mods/angrier-enemies

[warped wind]

I still do not know the difference between fast monsters and aggressive monsters
AFAIK fast monsters is just nightmare behavior
Aggressive may have something to do with infighting

[warped wind]

Hey, that's me

[edgy salmon]

Yeah, Pinky demons just run across the fucking screen in this game. We need to decide to have fast monsters and this mod installed.

[warped wind]

Play with this on keyboard only

Might as well eat nails for breakfast

[edgy salmon]

I mean if you play on I'm too young to die, it's a good time playing map01 lol

[median cloud]

Im sad I started my excel grading after tnt devilution cuz I cant remember this shit at all and I dont wanna play it again

[ocean mist]

actually the chaingunner has one too! (hard to notice though because its death is already gorey)

and the SS, and doomguy theres a list in the gib video at 1:16

[ocean mist]

oh, another thing about that hostage situation mod i was talking about, ALL OF YOUR WEAPONS ARE HIT-SCANNERS. AND YOU GET THE SUPER SHOTGUN. AND BECAUSE THE ROOMS ARE VERY SMALL, ONE MISCLICK, AND YOUR MOST LIKELY GOING TO HIT A HOSTAGE WHICH FORCES YOU TO RESTART THE LEVEL

[ocean mist]

oh yeah the mod name is "hostage rescue 3: back in black"

[bitter shoal]

that sounds like a troll map lol

[ocean mist]

the thing is it takes itself seriously 😭

it could have been a very cool mod, if the rooms werent so cramped and if the hostages werent DIRECTLY INFRONT OF THE SHOTGUNNERS (oh yeah all the enemies are shotgunners)

its really cool, like everything has a custom sprite, BUT JESUS CHRIST IS IT PRACTICALLY IMPOSSIBLE

[bitter shoal]

I'm guessing the hostages are voodoo dolls

[ocean mist]

nope

they just end the level upon death

sort of like how killing roero's head ends the level

(also they move around so they couldnt be voodoo dolls)

(and they can be killed when using iddqd so that wouldnt make sense for them to be voodoo dolls)

[native anchor]

Did Vanilla/DOS Doom have an option somewhere to enable auto run and/or disable vertical mouse movement? Or was that Chocolate Doom only?

[ocean mist]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[twin mortar]

Chocolate DOOM

[crystal hill]

Good thing source ports exist for these edge cases

[native anchor]

Hot take: Doom 64 EX is closer to Crispy Doom. Crispy Doom lets you turn on mouselook, which you can do in Doom 64 EX.

Meanwhile, KexDoom 64 is more like Chocolate Doom by comparison. It's more vanilla focussed than EX.

[twin mortar]

Why is this a hot take exactly

[crystal hill]

this is a take people have?

[bitter shoal]

This sounds more like an observation than a take

[ocean mist]

wow, the beta BFG was ass!

[native anchor]

"It looked like Christmas!" Said Romero.

[ocean mist]

ALSO JESUS CHRIST LOST SOULS WERE INSANE

thank god they changed them 😭

[native anchor]

Wait until you play Quake and see the Spawns.

[ocean mist]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-accepting-fate-tiktok-at-peace-gif-567488341419321713

[twin mortar]

Quake has a lot of annoying enemies

DOOM does NOT compare

[ocean mist]

i hate those skeleton looking mfs

the ones that throw chunks of themself at you

[native anchor]

Revenants.

They're called Revenants.

Wait...

[ocean mist]

im talking about quakes

[merry vine]

there are never any good servers in doomseeker

[native anchor]

Oh yeah, those.

They're Zombies actually.

[ocean mist]

if i remember correctly they reanimate unless you gib them

[native anchor]

That's right.

[ocean mist]

yeah...

hate those pieces of shit

[merry vine]

The quake vores are terribly annoying too, they're like revenants on steroids

At least they can't smack you

[native anchor]

Spawns are absolute maniacs.

[twin mortar]

There's the Fiends too, and Shamblers (in open areas)
But we're going a bit off-topic

[ocean mist]

is there an actual end to revenant bus? if so how long does it take to get

...HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE...

[woven swallow]

If I remember there's no end...

[ocean mist]

i looked it up, IT TAKES A WHOLE DAY.

😭

[woven swallow]

Haha, who's dumb to enough to grind one level for a whole day? me

[ocean mist]

also the stuff you find out of bounds in custom maps is very interesting

[ocean mist]

sa-

also, did you know if you kill a voodoo doll whos health is lower than the players health, you will enter a semi-dead state, enemies wont notice you, you can move around but you cant use your guns, if you take a health bonus/pack though, you will be alive again!

fuck

i meant lower

there fixed it :D

another thing, the unmakers bullets arent actually projectiles, they are instant hitscanners! laser is just special effect

[merry vine]

The unmaker is just a chaingun on steroids. On meth also.

[ocean mist]

basically

also the player can be seen in the title screen, everyone except the cyberdemon is after yo aaah

im running out of funfacts to say

oh the beserk pack lasts for about 3.9 years

[woven swallow]

Reminder: the code is open source, you can look onto GitHub, called Linux doom, also doomwiki (NOT THE FANDOM ONE) is a thing, Decino is not the only source to obscure doom facts!

[ocean mist]

oh yeah

oh also the archvile death sound is a distorded recording of a girl saying "why?"

[woven swallow]

https://youtu.be/EibefA7q0uI?si=32Hgtr5rfwZ_aO2J

[ocean mist]

damn

[woven swallow]

you can never truly trust the pumpkin man

[ocean mist]

i actually didnt hear that from him

[woven swallow]

Oh

[ocean mist]

i forgor who it was tho

[woven swallow]

...well I'll be damned

[ocean mist]

also, a direct super shotgun hit upclose is basically a direct cyberdemon rocket

if not more

[woven swallow]

YES, SOMEONE SAID IT

[ocean mist]

also i just love going onto map20 on nightmare, enabling god mode and noclip and hitting the switch early, and just watching the carnage (infighting is very fun to watch)

[woven swallow]

....until the blockmap bug makes you completely miss all the SSG pallets

[ocean mist]

😭

[median cloud]

The snow episode is my favorite one in Eviternity

dang kinda wanna play some eviternity again now

[ancient shoal]

Onslaught is unfair.

[native anchor]

Anyone else tend to not play Classic Doom at anywhere above 60 FPS?

Even for KexEngine Doom, I tend the resolution down to a lower refresh rate.

I just find it unnecessary to play at like 120 FPS.

[little oar]

It's usually capped to 60 for me. Anything higher doesn't make much of a difference to me
This goes for every game ever though. I never have it above 60 unless I'm unable to limit it

[native anchor]

Especially considering vanilla Doom only ran at 35 FPS.

[native anchor]

Classic feels too smooth, and in a weird way, when playing at 165 Hz.

Plus, Doom 3 cannot even let you play above 60 FPS. At least, if we’re not counting BFG Edition.

[little oar]

Which we rightfully will not

Stuff like monitor refresh is weird but I'm admittedly not super knowledgeable on how that works
I think I have a 120hz so if it asks I'll leave it at default, but if it asks for a specific fps I'll limit to 60. Idk if those are the same tho

[median cloud]

Onslaught is a shitty evil map

I play Doom capped at 120 fps and it feels great imo

[median cloud]

I'm not a fan of the mouselag vsync gives

[median cloud]

Anyone played D2TWID? Thinking about giving it a shot

[median cloud]

I do have a bit of an itch to return to old doom 2 vibes with the old midi selection

Though I have to finish Going Down first I suppose

Just not interested in Doom 1 wads but I can see what you mean

There's also Doom 2 in name only I could play I suppose

[woven swallow]

IWAD: Doom2.wad
PWAD: RUNBUDDY.wad
Download link: https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/p-r/runbuddy
Complevel: 9
Sourceport: Boom.exe (Dosbox)
Map author: Michael Krause

[crystal hill]

that one's a bit of a stinker