classic-doom

[median cloud]

Since you legit kill like 200 imps with one shot

[sharp veldt]

I'll get to it, I'm still clearing up my wad backlog

next on my list is Dead Sea Scrolls

[modern peak]

im too busy making my own maps to play any custom wads rn even though i kinda want to play some since i barely have played any

[sharp veldt]

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/105598-hurt-singleplayer-map-in-hell/

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1059930216513949716/1353246344742961223/Hurt_Screenshot_8.png?ex=697d99de&is=697c485e&hm=3b627b62bf2aa1fec6339272da253535bc2592ae4e703fff1d6c685b4b820287&

[median cloud]

Is that a tough one?

[sharp veldt]

may i suggest you try this one giant map then

[sharp veldt]

I heard so atleast

[median cloud]

Hmm the doomworld thread seems to sugggest it's easy

I'll have to check it out myself then

Can't make a lot of hard challenges with stock Doom 1 monsters

[sharp veldt]

technically you can, force the player to scavenge for ammo while forcing them to shotgun cacodemons and barons

[median cloud]

Ahh Sigil? xd

[sharp veldt]

yeah lmao, then this gets cranked up to 11 in SIGIL 2

like even first map starts off with you getting assaulted from all sides while you have just a pistol

[covert swan]

It's not co-op compatible, sad.

[sharp veldt]

I don't really play coop 👍

i think it's neat but shouldn't be everywhere

besides this map is better experienced alone, pretty atmospheric stuff

[covert swan]

Fair.

Has anyone played lullaby.pk3 ?

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/119819-lullaby-12-update-101423-low-specs-version/

[median cloud]

I have in the past!

[median cloud]

I dont like Sigili 2 much I cannot lie

[covert swan]

Awesome, isn't it ?

[median cloud]

I dont lik this type of difficulty

I quit I think around map 3-4

[median cloud]

Yeah it's a cool map

[woven swallow]

you should play it

[sharp veldt]

Well it's certainly not for everyone but i enjoyed both SIGIL wads, i prefer this over gazillion of monsters, makes you spend your ammunition much more thoughtfully

[median cloud]

I do like a mix of both but difficulty purely due to ammo starvation I dislike

[sharp veldt]

just look for secrets

most of them aren't that hard to find there

[median cloud]

Not a fan of secret hunting at all

Unless theyre for new areas

[sharp veldt]

Fair

[median cloud]

I usually use iddt on new maps or doomwiki

Lots of harder maps rely on the secrets to beat the map as well

[sharp veldt]

I just became decent at seeing the patterns over the years

[median cloud]

I just dislike the ones where you need to spot a small switch

or the ones where crossing a certain linedef lowers it temporarily but u can't see where

[halcyon willow]

Hurt is peak

[sharp veldt]

exactly why I had to post it

[halcyon willow]

[shut jungle]

Gunna give this a go, comments look positive

[woven swallow]

Please do! It is one of the best looking maps I've seen, make sure to turn on freelook for a better experience

[shut jungle]

I just found out about this!

doom III, a mod for doom II

https://youtu.be/SLxuku32ZDM?si=paBdS2cY0S1v2ZVv

Looks sick!

Looks like i have two bangers to get through

[woven swallow]

Not really a fan of mods like these but hey this one looks kinda cool, might give it a good try and see what happens

[shut jungle]

Looks a little quake-ish

[covert swan]

It is worth it

[shut jungle]

Yeah its good

[woven swallow]

Holy peak it is, if you are interested I can recommend many other doom custom maps/mapsets

[shut jungle]

Yeah man for sure drop me a message @woven swallow 🙂

[oak adder]

Im almost done with evilution

mount pain is well... pain

mainly near the end of the map

[median cloud]

Yeah those lost souls make me hate that map

I find it a genuine tough map

[oak adder]

I know right

among the chaingunners, revenants, and cacodemons

[sharp veldt]

Map 27 of Purgatory just pulled a slaughter map section on me jesus christ

had to use infighting

and map earlier there was an entire part reminiscent of Watch Your Step from 64, fascinating

[median cloud]

@crystal hill ancient aliens map 8 is hard as balls lol

[crystal hill]

I struggled a lot with it my first time too

but then came map 9. And then map 10

good luck :)

[median cloud]

I managed to beat it now

but that trap with the spectres and the arches and the trap for the yellow skull

died a lot there

[crystal hill]

Thats at the end, right?

if you know about it you can prep and save plasma

[median cloud]

Nah the yellow skull is at the start just a lot of monsters tp’ing in with little room

The spectres is at the middle and yeah Im stacked on plasma there but usually spend a ton of it

Spectres arch viles is an awful combo haha

[crystal hill]

focus on the spectres

you can kill them easier and make space

[modern peak]

my day be so fine, until suddenly, scythe e3m2

[crystal hill]

what level is that??

[median cloud]

22?

Scythe has 3 eps iirc

[crystal hill]

why not just use the map number, its simpler

[modern peak]

because its sorted by episodes

[crystal hill]

is it?

[modern peak]

yes

[crystal hill]

I dont see the option to pick an episode on the title screen

again, map number is easier, and everyone knows what those are

[modern peak]

thanks vega

[crystal hill]

what port is that?

[modern peak]

kex

[crystal hill]

Scythe isnt an official episode

I dont get why they'd add episodes to it randomly

that just confuses people who dont use kex

[true bloom]

good evening, tell me, will the Trench Foot mod be available on UZDoom?

[crystal hill]

you can already use it. give it a try if you havent

[woven swallow]

I see the option in other ports...

It does have an episode selection

[sacred dagger]

can someone help me get to these secrets on #videos

[modern peak]

i mean you can literally just search e1m2 all secrets on youtube

[sacred dagger]

ive looked at videos but they have no commentary and they just dont work

[mellow matrix]

That wall should open when you press on it. There's a switch inside that room to open the wall on the staircase to get to the outdoor area.

[native anchor]

I wanna see someone play Doom 64 on the Analogue 3D.

[grand patrol]

Yooooo i need some people to join me on doom one for xbox multiplayer so i can get all the achievmentz plz

Deathmatch specifically

Help meeeeeeee

[modern peak]

classic doom has multiplayer achievements?

[twin mortar]

The 2006 and 2019 releases yea

[modern peak]

why didnt they have steam achievements

[twin mortar]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[modern peak]

this is so rigged

[native anchor]

Who else likes the OPL music?

I mainly use it in Crispy Doom because its the only music option that works on Steam Deck.

[oak adder]

I might play plutonia on a lower difficulty.

despite playing evilution on uv

or i can just commit to uv

[wintry copper]

if you feel like it's too hard then you're better off lowering the difficulty

had to do it for Scythe II bc I literally could not do the final battle in MAP15 bc I didn't have enough cells

well not so much do it as abandon it for now

[mellow matrix]

I beat Perdition's Gate in a day 😅 Good wad with some pretty ingenious stuff for the 90s (the secret levels, MAP18's self-assembling arena, some shockingly modern combat design in spots) but good god what was with the lack of armor throughout? I felt so squishy for 80% of my playthrough.
I'm pretty surprised at how much I enjoyed it. It's like a better version of Icarus.

[torpid yacht]

Always UV

[coarse heron]

What's plutonia? I've heard about it but idk what it is

[torpid yacht]

Doom 2 but better

[coarse heron]

ah cool

[torpid yacht]

[native anchor]

Who else skips Thy Flesh Consumed?

[woven swallow]

People do that? Why....

[native anchor]

It's very unbalanced.

[sharp veldt]

shhh, let people experience the cruelty

[crystal hill]

Its another official set of levels for Doom 2, infamous for its difficulty

[native anchor]

One part of Final Doom.

Final Doom released in 1996, it both Plutonia and TNT Evilution as one commercial release.

It was thought to be the final Doom game, but then Doom 64 released the following year.

[smoky radish]

Anyone on got doom 1 plus doom 2 wanna play some multiplayer, with mic

If so the mod will be eviternity on ultra-violence and the code is WJBF

[cinder sapphire]

I think there was someone who changed the order of maps of thy flesh and said it helped a lot with balancing/made it more enjoyable

[sharp wyvern]

I sometimes do

[woven swallow]

What?

[storm tapir]

I dont think it is unbalanced but e4m2 is bs without secrets

[woven swallow]

okay maybe the startng map is, but the rest is not that bad

[sharp wyvern]

Yeah lowk if the maps were switched around I’d probably enjoy playing it all in a row more

[calm lichen]

Yeah, only the first 2 maps are tough

[native anchor]

I especially cannot play it without doing the BFG grab trick.

And that trick barely works.

[storm tapir]

E4M6 is also bs without the left side tunnel secret

[native anchor]

Or the Plasma Rifle secret at the beginning.

[calm lichen]

E4 feels catered towards Sigil fans

[storm tapir]

That's the same secret I think

[crystal hill]

The one level I really dislike in TFC is the 2nd romero level in the castle. Sniping cyberdemons are the devil

[calm lichen]

Fr

[native anchor]

I never had a problem with the Cyberdemon in E4M6.

[crystal hill]

Ok

Well, I have. And with the damaging floor

[native anchor]

I just go on a detour after getting he stuff from the red key to grab the Invulnerability, and then kill the Cyberdemon.

[storm tapir]

@native anchor do you skip the master levels?

[native anchor]

Can only play those on the Kex Engine port.

I don't play that often.

I use DSDA-Doom.

[crystal hill]

You can play without it

Kex includes a wad that compiles all the master levels together into one wad

[native anchor]

That WAD doesn't work in every sourceport.

I tried it in Chocolate Doom and it didn't even start up.

[crystal hill]

Thats chocolate doom.

Does it work in boom compatible stuff?

[native anchor]

It works in Crispy Doom.

[storm tapir]

Everyone must play teeth.wad before declaring some random plutonia or e4 map hardest main game map :p

[native anchor]

But how would I be able to play Master Levels in Chocolate Doom?

[crystal hill]

Do you need to?

If so, I guess theres always the original single map wads

[cinder sapphire]

the download link to this wad is now blocked, but they list the map orderlist and reasonings for why in the thread if you're interested: https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?t=57970

[crystal hill]

You can idclev around to those levels if you dont mind pistol starting

[storm tapir]

Most of those maps are for pistol start otherwise they are cakewalks

[native anchor]

Only issue here with that method is the same song in MAP01 plays in all of those WADs.

[crystal hill]

Tough

Thats the price you pay for authenticity

[storm tapir]

Actually I take it back, plutonia has that speed map which might be harder than teeth

[storm tapir]

Idmus cheat it away

[native anchor]

But what songs actually play in which of the Master Levels?

[crystal hill]

You decide

[storm tapir]

Not all master levels replace map 1

Although most do

Black tower is like map25

And I think mephistos had dead simple music so map 7

[native anchor]

Not the case in Chocolate Doom.

And some Master Levels don't even work at all. I opened Chocolate Doom with MINOS.WAD and it just takes me to Entryway instead.

[storm tapir]

I am talking about the individual wad files

As in doom 1+2 they changed the songs in the maps already

No more D_RUNNIN in like 12 of the master levels

[native anchor]

Does that mean the Master Levels WADs replace existing levels?

[crystal hill]

Yeah? Thats how wads work

Try playing any single map wad then going to one of the next maps

[storm tapir]

Yes they are just maps. No new enemies etc

[crystal hill]

You go to underhalls or the gantlet

[crystal hill]

Not all master levels replace map 1

[storm tapir]

I guess closest is master levels that became normal maps in console dooms

Am sure attack was like the first map some console players played

Oh yeah attack is map01 for PS final doom

You get it expecting plutonia or TNT and get slammed with master levels

[native anchor]

Was Doom 64 always intended as a sequel to Doom 2 and/or Final Doom?

[crystal hill]

what do you mean?

It was always connected to the series, if thats what you're asking. Why wouldnt it be?

[native anchor]

I meant when it first released.

[crystal hill]

the story has doomguy suffering from PTSD as a result of surviving the prior demonic invasion

[native anchor]

He wouldn't. He's Doomguy.

He's as battle hardened as Batman.

[crystal hill]

He's just a guy

I can fully buy he'd have PTSD after what he went through

besides, take it up with id/Midway, I didn't write the story

[storm tapir]

At least Doom 2 was less traumatising than doom 1, relatively

[crystal hill]

he went through both, back to back

[storm tapir]

Ye but Doom 1 was like way worse for him lol

[native anchor]

Even Final Doom included depending on how much time passed between Doom 2 and Final Doom.

[crystal hill]

ok?

Doomguy in the classic games was just some guy, him getting PTSD after being one of the few, if not the only, survivor of the demonic invasion who actually fought them, makes sense to me

[native anchor]

Of course that is assuming Final Doom even is canon.

[crystal hill]

I dont see why it wouldnt be

[native anchor]

And maybe even Master Levels since that's an official expansion pack for Doom 2.

Actually, almost every Doom game has its own expansion pack, thinking about it now.
Doom 1 has Thy Flesh Consumed (Included with Ultimate Doom)
Doom 2 has Master Levels, and some say Final Doom counts as a standalone expansion
Doom 64 has Lost Levels (Included in the Kex port)
Doom 3 has Resurrection of Evil (Lost Mission in BFG Edition)
And Eternal has Ancient Gods

[storm tapir]

If master levels are canon a game would take place on Jupiter moons

[native anchor]

Some probably in Hell too, I think.

I imagine Master Levels being Doomguy's journey back to Earth after killing the Icon of Sin.

[storm tapir]

Well.. not very efficient to go from Deimos to Io before returning to earth. No wonder demons had time to destroy stuff

[bitter shoal]

DOOM 64's story in the instruction manual depicts itself as Doomguy already having fought the forces of Hell and is returning to a space station

[bitter shoal]

AFAIK Master Levels shouldn't fit in the continuity because some of the levels in it actually originated from a megawad that has its own self contained story

[storm tapir]

Oh ye the cabal maps aren't even doomguy but a cursed cyberdemon

[sharp veldt]

Map 30 of the Purgatory, it's not fucking around anymore, 881 monster count and first arena something straight out of a slaughter map

[crystal hill]

well, I imagine the story would be changed for the master leveels

[median cloud]

@crystal hill Skillsaw is really mean with his archviles

[crystal hill]

I can't really deny that

he mandates aggression to deal with them, which isn't what I usually like doing, but I respect it

[median cloud]

Yeah I just beat map 9

died around that yellow key that springs 3 arches on you

also got zapped by the archvile at the red key

the blue key trap was also pretty tough but I think I handled that well

overall pretty difficult map

[crystal hill]

quite so. It's rather long as well

MtPain said it was about as tough as Valiant, but I think it's at least a step above

[median cloud]

He has it at the same level as eviternity

[crystal hill]

does he?

[median cloud]

Tho I think Eviternity is easier, but maybe ancient aliens is just harder earlier

[median cloud]

Ya both B+

[crystal hill]

The Doom wiki must be wrong them

it says he has Evit as A-, and Ancient Aliens as a B

[median cloud]

maybe he updated it

I just have the excel from post s3

eviternity wasnt that hard tbh

[crystal hill]

I rushed through Graduation Season 1, he doesn't seem to update his difficulty ratings there

[modern peak]

i wasnt expecting scythe map26 to just turn into a full on slaughtermap

[median cloud]

I know there are some things that are corrected later on

For example AV was A- in the video but got updated to A+

Entropy is listed as X- on the doomwiki but in the video he has it X+

[crystal hill]

where did it get updated?

[crystal hill]

in my defence I watched a lot of DoD to write in some missing rankings, so I guess I flubbed that one

[median cloud]

I dont know but you can check the video and see for yourself

[crystal hill]

I have, and it is listed as A+ in the video

[median cloud]

Ah huh weird

must be going insane then

[crystal hill]

well you were right about the X+ for Entropy

[median cloud]

Ah he had it listed A- in his Excel

thats where I got the confusion from

[crystal hill]

that's bizarre

[median cloud]

He also had entropy listed wrong in his excel so

[crystal hill]

Alien Vendetta is HARD

[median cloud]

Ya AV is about the same as PL2 and HR

[crystal hill]

probably not as bad as Plut 2, but A- is very low

I find AV easier after 2 playthroughs than I find Plut 2 after playing it god knows how much

[median cloud]

man you really hear his voice change in later videos like so little excitement

[crystal hill]

Have you watched his Down the Drain video?

He said himself, he doesn't play Doom for fun anymore, but to "experience" it

[modern peak]

what is this balance

why did we go from slaughtermap immediately to a standard doom 2 type level

[crystal hill]

you're not gonna like what comes after wards

[storm tapir]

You mean other way around?

[modern peak]

oh thats just evil

[median cloud]

Man crazy how hard he burnt himself out from Doom

[crystal hill]

shame

[median cloud]

@crystal hill https://youtu.be/vXQe5adOsmY?t=541

[crystal hill]

Maybe he pushed himself too hard to play hard stuff? Like basically all of Ribbicks' stuff

[median cloud]

here are the updates for AV eviternity and Ancient aliens

av A-, Evi B+, AA B+

[crystal hill]

hmm

[median cloud]

I think so

[crystal hill]

I wonder how to stick that on the wiki

[crystal hill]

again, AV as A- is nuts

A+ seems about right, if you mention that its on the lower end of that

[storm tapir]

Are there two AVs now :p

[median cloud]

Yeah Im not sure why he put it at A- now

[crystal hill]

AA as B+ is proably fair. If Evi is also B+, that's a good sign for my ability to beat it

[modern peak]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/589493404682027111/1467479125664202906/image.png?ex=698087f0&is=697f3670&hm=fd29abe8b17f67c6c0dd7a357efeb5660f82128298a0f0a30899ed361e3e3ae6&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1112&height=694

i died as i beat map 27

now im a ghost i guess

[crystal hill]

you mean 28? I think thats what Run from It is

[modern peak]

yeah 28

[crystal hill]

well, I guess you're pistol starting

or redoing map 28

[storm tapir]

The most fun map in the wad TM

[crystal hill]

Scythe, for me, kind of peaks at Fear and just doesnt make it back up there

[median cloud]

scythe map 30 is a killer icl

[modern peak]

i redid it

[median cloud]

I can see a lot of ppl drop scythe cuz of it

[crystal hill]

I gave up on it at map 30

[median cloud]

I have so many mappacks to play man

[crystal hill]

I didnt like the wad nearly enough to go through it

[storm tapir]

I think anyone who can beat map28 can beat any map in scythe 1 lol

[crystal hill]

why?

[median cloud]

Ancient Aliens, Scythe 2, Augur Zenith, Scythe

[storm tapir]

Because nothing requires minmaxing like it

[crystal hill]

Map 28 requires very different skills to every other map in the wad

[modern peak]

map 28 is literally just speedrunning

[crystal hill]

every other map you can take it slow, methodically fighting everything one by one

[median cloud]

map 28 is completely different in terms of difficulty lol

[modern peak]

theres no demon killing you just run to the end before you die

[crystal hill]

exactly

[median cloud]

not a comparison at all

[storm tapir]

I mean you have the reaction time and movement skill to pull it off

[crystal hill]

nothing to do with reaction time

[modern peak]

what are you reacting to

[crystal hill]

and no one map in scythe needs movement skill, whatever that is

[median cloud]

A lot of doom fights are puzzles as well

[storm tapir]

Not when one of those lost souls ruin your run

[crystal hill]

redo it

it's not a long map

[modern peak]

they are only at the very start

[crystal hill]

fuck, you can kill them all before tripping the line def

[modern peak]

and thats not reaction nor skill thats just rng

[storm tapir]

it doesn't need luck it gives you BFG and SSG lol

it is UV maxable 😛

[crystal hill]

who said otherwise?

you're acting like you're a lot better informed than you actually are

[modern peak]

what are you trying to say

[crystal hill]

AA and Auger Zenith are head and shoulders above both the others imo

Scythe at least is quick, you can do the vast majority of maps quite quickly, so if you're nearly done with it, I guess finish it off

unless you want to push yourself and complete map 30, in which case god help you

[median cloud]

I had already beaten 30

just not the rest lol

[crystal hill]

Really?

[median cloud]

Yeah I beat map 30 not too long ago

[crystal hill]

that's an odd order

You could conceivably beat all of scythe today

[median cloud]

I just wanted to beat classic hard maps

[median cloud]

Probably but Im still doing ancient aliens now and I dont wanna start like 4 wads at the same time

[bitter shoal]

I remember Scythe Map 30 allowing you to approach it in chunks

[crystal hill]

Well, you considered it as a wad you started, right?

if not, then yeah, its not worth dropping AA for

it'd be like throwing out a Michelin star meal to go to McDonalds

[median cloud]

Sometimes u want quick mcdo

[crystal hill]

Sure, but you've already started the Michelin Star meal

[serene stag]

https://tenor.com/view/cacodemon-caco-pet-cute-doom-gif-18064293408960087153

[oak adder]

plutonia is gonna be my kryptionite

[mellow matrix]

Started Blues Brothers 2025 in preparation for the DWMC and any wad that replaces the pistol with the plasma rifle is an immediate A+ in my book.

[potent drum]

Hello chat

I haven't been on this server forever

[grand patrol]

Yo anybody wanna play doom 1993 with me multiplayer on xbox so i finish getting the achuevments

[wintry copper]

this is why I've generally avoided UV and hard mapsets, also on that note he really should've considered playing through Swim with the Whales on HMP considering how angry he clearly got playing it

[wintry copper]

eh, on HMP it's perfectly fine

it's been over 2 years but the archvile maze level was legit a joke lmao

[grand patrol]

I aint sure if its cross play tho all i got it on is xbox for doom 1993, doom 2, doom 3 bfg

[twin mortar]

No crossplay for those

[median cloud]

Okay so I went on to play some Scythe

got to map 22 lol but now its a bit harder

[sharp veldt]

done with Purgatory

what an adventure!

[crystal hill]

playing hard stuff can be fun. You just need to recognise, in his own words, when it's just not worth it

[wintry copper]

yeah exactly

[crystal hill]

I think thats what ultimately burned me out on Doom, the last few times it happened

I tried and failed to struggle my way through really hard wads, not knowing when it was best to just shrug and move on to something else

[halcyon willow]

The correct difficulty is the one you enjoy

[modern peak]

billions must go uv no matter what

[halcyon willow]

[modern peak]

even if the game kicks you in the nuts you cannot go down a difficulty

never back down never give up

[halcyon willow]

Idiot opinion

[modern peak]

alright wise guy lets see you share a better opinion

[crystal hill]

you aren't joking?

[halcyon willow]

People can play how they want

That's it, that's the opinion. All others are invalid and will be treated as such

Forcing yourself to play on a difficulty that you don't enjoy is stupid

[dusk furnace]

Hi i am new in this server

[modern peak]

what if you enjoy forcing yourself to play a specific difficulty

[crystal hill]

read the sentence again

[halcyon willow]

You answered your own question

[modern peak]

fuck im out of arguments uhh

[modern peak]

well that opinion is stinky

[dusk furnace]

I don’t know much english

[twin mortar]

Incredible

[modern peak]

and i dont like it

[halcyon willow]

What's even stupider, is demanding other people play on a specific difficulty

The actions of fools and fuckwits

[modern peak]

its not demanding its encouragement

[crystal hill]

its one thing to encourage people to push themselves, get better at a game

[crystal hill]

?

[crystal hill]

you should be fine, people here aren't the grammar police

[modern peak]

i am

im undercover dont tell anyone

[dusk furnace]

Ok thanks

[modern peak]

anyway i got to scythe map30 and i mean so far it doesnt seem as bad as ive heard it was, it just mostly feels like im missing something

there are a lot of different paths to take and its not entirely clear on where you need to go or what you need to do to progress exactly

[oak adder]

yall got any tips for plutonia?

[crystal hill]

always be on the lookout for traps

[modern peak]

maybe some tricks too

[crystal hill]

if you see a key or valuable item, expect it to be guarded

[oak adder]

because im almost done with evilution (map 28 to be exact)

[modern peak]

treat every pickup as if a bunch of revenants and chaingunners will magically appear when you pick it up

and you will be fine probably

[oak adder]

I did watch civvie's video on that and yeah

stuff is not free for the taking

[halcyon willow]

Practice dodging revenant rockets

Expect archviles everywhere

[oak adder]

I remember this one level with two arch-viles and eight revenants.

[twin mortar]

Which is good because Archies are dope to fight

[crystal hill]

when you get good at it, yeah

so many arch viles can be overwhelming to those not used to em

[halcyon willow]

Greatest FPS enemy every created

[modern peak]

archies are fun to fight when they arent just ooh scary archvile in an empty room full of dead fodder

otherwise just kinda boring

[oak adder]

I think I can circle them

also i think the arch-vile doesn't move while attacking

[crystal hill]

no it does not. also doesn't move when resurrecting

[oak adder]

I just gotta avoid its line of sight.

[crystal hill]

hard to do if you want to kill it

[torpid yacht]

Save, traps are gonna get cha

[crystal hill]

I like to position myself around/near cover, then get behind it when the arch vile starts attacking

[oak adder]

like i can shoot for a bit during the fire attack

[crystal hill]

yeah

sometimes when you hit it, it makes a noise, which interrupts its attack

[oak adder]

how many seconds does it last like three?

[crystal hill]

then it'll start doing a new attack, which lets you hit it again

[modern peak]

i like to play a game called gambling where i try to see if i can trigger the archies pain state with the ssg before he zaps me

[sharp veldt]

Literally gambling

[crystal hill]

I dunno. I'd suggest opening a map with arch viles in it and trying to feel it out

eventually you develop instincts for this kinda thing

[oak adder]

the level "hunted" is gonna give me problems

[torpid yacht]

Almost 4

[crystal hill]

actually, thats the perfect place to test out the arch vile timing

give yourself god mode, and see how long the attack takes

[oak adder]

the three main enemies plutonia loves to use are chaingunners, revenants, and arch-viles

[modern peak]

likely not because imo its plutonias easiest level

[crystal hill]

ehhhhhhh

[modern peak]

the hardest part is remembering which teleporter to take at the end

[crystal hill]

if you get good at fighting viles, its in the easiest 5 at least

if not, you're in for a world of hurt

[torpid yacht]

Depends how they behave

[modern peak]

thing is that its a maze, there are corners everywhere, and if you are at a dead end you can prevent the archie from cornering you by body blocking him while he is running at you

[oak adder]

yeah im not pistol starting plutonia

and its gonna be a uv playthrough

[halcyon willow]

Some tips for dealing with archviles:

• They have a range limit on their attack (768 mu iirc) until they are hit. Once they have been damaged then they have infinite range against the enemy that damaged them
• The SSG has a very high pain chance against archviles. I think it's around a 60% chance if you hit with all pellets, and you generally have time to get 2 shots off before they attack. If you lack cover then this is a fairly reliable way to deal with them
• Archviles will instantly retarget so if they are in the middle of an attack do NOT shoot them. This can be used to your advantage if there are enemy projectiles you can manipulate
• Other monsters will never target archviles
• You can block 80% of the damage from an archvile by standing hard up behind a raised floor of 24mu or higher. This will block the blast damage part of the attack
• Because most of the damage from an archvile is blast damage, they take forever to kill cyberdemons/masterminds which are immune to blast damage. This can be a good thing because you can leave them infighting for an extended period of time

[torpid yacht]

Until 2 or 3 comes by

[modern peak]

you really only come across 2 at once like one time or none if youre lucky, plasma rifle works best in those situations

[oak adder]

I could just go ahead and finish up evilution

[crystal hill]

you should finish it before starting plutonia, yeah

[median cloud]

Alright I beat the entirety of Scythe today

Map 26 is a banger

Map 29 is very dissappointing

but most of the hell maps are pretty good

Back to Ancient Aliens tomorrow and now NO distraction

[crystal hill]

Map 26 is the highlight of Scythe for me, yeah

its fine as an early 2000s wad. I don't love much of anything from around that time (Alien Vendetta and some small maps notwithstanding), so it stands out in a positive way

[median cloud]

Strange how he gave map 29 an A- for difficulty, did it first try

while some of the hell maps like Anger took me a couple of tries

[crystal hill]

a B+ might be more fair

the cyberdemons are a problem, and the pressure is kind of on throughout. And the beginning is pretty brutal

[median cloud]

Meh theres a bfg secret so

[crystal hill]

doesnt automatically make everything easy

[median cloud]

Map 27 has 3 cybers u gotta duel with invis

[crystal hill]

plus, you need to get to it

[median cloud]

And map 26 has a looot of triplet cybers

[crystal hill]

last time I played it, I managed to cheese it somehow

[median cloud]

Tho u do get an invul

[crystal hill]

I think I got the invis, then waited before going up to the cybers

[median cloud]

Map 28 was also not that hard tbh

Once I realized I had to keep to the right side

I do like Scythe tbh its a pretty fun mappack

Something about using a lot of stock doom music and having tiny maps

[crystal hill]

I also like tiny maps. Just wish they were a bit, er, harder

the opening 10 or so are comically easy for me now

[median cloud]

Oh yeah regular doom 2 is harder than those

[crystal hill]

regular doom 1 might be

[median cloud]

Is there a source port that is very vanilla but shows secrets when you get them

[crystal hill]

Im not the one to ask

[median cloud]

Like a chocolate doom with secrets shown

I guess crispy doom

[native anchor]

There's Woof.

[native anchor]

Crispy Doom doesn't do that, at least on my end.

Maybe you can enable it in the settings somehwere.

[crystal hill]

Woof isnt vanilla at all

He's looking for a strictly vanilla port, so no Boom or similar

[halcyon willow]

Chocolate and Crispy are the 2 main vanilla ports

[woven swallow]

Russian doom it is, or international doom

[oak adder]

hey guys

good news

I finally beat all the levels in evilution.

[covert swan]

Congrats 🎉

[covert swan]

It's a bs port, better Chocolate or Crispy for vanilla experience.

[covert swan]

It's not vanilla indeed, supports modern features, most importantly - MBF21

[oak adder]

plutonia...

this is gonna be pain just like evilution but worse

[covert swan]

Evilution gets so much hate...I genuinely don't find it THAT bad.

Crazy, it even gets more hate than awful Master Levels

[halcyon willow]

Chocolate is pretty much the original .exe with a couple of QOL improvements. It does remove the save file size limitation of the original game. Crispy is a limit removing port. It doesn't add any new features, but it removes the og vanilla limits like visplane overflows, segfaults, screen sprite limit etc

Crispy is an accepted port for vanilla speed runs

[crystal hill]

Thats one hell of an unfair comparison

[crystal hill]

After a few days of non stop terraria, I think I'll try playing some doom again today

[storm tapir]

Best part is Evilution still has more completions than plutonia on d1+2

[crystal hill]

Plutonia's harder

[median cloud]

Does it also show secrets found? My one issue with the choco doom port is how annoying secret hunting is

[storm tapir]

Plutonia has difficulty settings

[crystal hill]

so does TNT

[median cloud]

Evilution honestly becomes better once you know the layout of the maps, the mappack is unfun for first timers because of how confusing it could be

[bitter shoal]

last section of Scythe 2 Map 15 was absolutely bonkers. Coming back the next day with a fresh mind worked though

[covert swan]

I gotta agree with you. I know layouts of the map, that's why I enjoy TNT. I don't remember complaining when playing first time, either.

[covert swan]

THIS

[crystal hill]

Plutonia's harder

[covert swan]

Nobody doubts that, we're talking about TNT, rn.

[crystal hill]

huh? the guy was comparing TNT to Plutonia

you responded with "THIS", which makes me think you're agreeing with him on that (and that that means TNT is better)

[storm tapir]

If someone is alt+f14ing plutonia over the difficulty idk how they managed to get past mount pain or didn't break monitor at start of map30

[crystal hill]

what?

[median cloud]

Well some plutonia maps are definitely harder than Mount Pain

[crystal hill]

Map 30 isn't hard. You can just look up the solution if you cant figure it out yourself

[storm tapir]

Few of them

[crystal hill]

so Plutonia is harder than TNT

[median cloud]

I agree tbf but I can see people rq'ing on go 2 it

[crystal hill]

Mount Pain isn't easy but I have absolutely played worse

[median cloud]

Onslaught is also a pain, Twilight as well

Abbatoire has that nasty trap at the end (even tho it isnt very hard)

[crystal hill]

Twilight is hitscan hell. If you dont know how to navigate it or where the secrets are, you're gonna be made into Swiss cheese. On map 15, rather than Mt Pain being Map 27

[median cloud]

Twilight is pretty easy if you know the secrets but yeah

[storm tapir]

Twilight isnt hard on continuous

[median cloud]

without em it's rough

[crystal hill]

you still get hitscanned

[median cloud]

That's true a lot of plutonia maps aren't that hard on continuous. Go 2 it is an exception

[crystal hill]

neither is anything on TNT

[median cloud]

and I think the map 9 trap at the end might be a killer for a lot of people

[crystal hill]

We can do this all day

[storm tapir]

Do what? Point is someone rqing over difficulty would've done it either way. Not that TNT is even close in difficulty

[crystal hill]

???

You can rage quit over something that is harder while not rage quitting at something that is easier

[bitter shoal]

Mr. X is scary that is my contribution to this discussion

[storm tapir]

Plutonia isnt that much harder, just too samey until you get surprised by best map odyssey of noises

[crystal hill]

did we play the same wad?

[bitter shoal]

Resident Evil 2 cooked hard enough that it affected Scythe 2

[median cloud]

Plutonia on average is way harder than TNT

Some TNT maps are tough on pistol start tho

Map 07 prison for example

[bitter shoal]

Speaking of Plutonia I found out there is a 1024 megawad of it I might have to play it just to keep up the meme of playing every Plutonia follow up

[crystal hill]

TNT certainly has hard maps. Plutonia has far more of em

[median cloud]

On continuous playthrough TNT is pretty easy aside from Mount Pain I can't really name a map I'd classify as tough

[storm tapir]

I dont mean gameplay wise* I meant design wise plutonia doesn't go around

[crystal hill]

what does go around mean in this context?

[storm tapir]

Brick building then red map back and forth

That people will quit because they want more varied locations

Not anything wrong with gameplay

[crystal hill]

If people didn't quit after the repetitive fights of TNT, I don't think boredom would cause them to quit

or the massive maps of TNT, like the aforementioned Mount Pain

[storm tapir]

The massive maps are the best maps

[crystal hill]

Uhuh

I love wandering around an empty map, chaingunning stray zombiemen as I go

[median cloud]

I think there are multiple reasons why people quit, a lot of people are taught to save Plutonia for last because of its difficulty but at that point people might be burnt out from Doom. Especially if they finished TNT prior

Some people also cheated the achievement by just going to the last map and beating it

Plutonia map 30 is way harder than the other map 30's

Some people probably quit Plutonia because it was too hard, but I think it's unlikely if they've beaten other commercial doom wads

[bitter shoal]

I definitely think you can go to Plutonia if you've experienced some of Romero's DOOM 2 or Episode 4 maps

[crystal hill]

I would suggest playing TNT or the Master Levels first

have a steadier increase in difficulty

[storm tapir]

If difficulty was the problem LoR wouldn't have more completions than both

[modern peak]

i wouldnt say they really have an increase in difficulty, atleast not tnt

maybe in like a couple maps

[crystal hill]

LoR exclusively released on this port

[woven swallow]

Russian doom is good, is better than even Crispy

[crystal hill]

you could take the wad file and play it on something like GZ/UZDoom, but Kex is the intended way to play it. So most people do

[median cloud]

It does? I thought LoR had the least

[crystal hill]

I think it does

[storm tapir]

On the ports it does

[crystal hill]

It's in between Doom 2 and Plutonia difficulty wise

[modern peak]

the difficulty of tnt is just like sometimes throwing a bunch of hitscanners from far away but thats less hard than it is annoying

[crystal hill]

LoR has about as many completions as TNT and Sigil

[crystal hill]

it is still a form of difficulty that especially new players will struggle with

[storm tapir]

Both wads difficulty is chaingunner spam galore lol

[crystal hill]

Plutonia does that, while also having actually interesting fights

[median cloud]

LoR has as much as tnt, plutonia has the least completions

[modern peak]

tnt is more just fodder spam ingeneral

[crystal hill]

TNT's best tricks are the hit scan spam and boring you to death

[storm tapir]

Idk how would anyone even die in most TNT maps they have enough hp for several maps

Most deaths are probably in metal, stronghold and mount pain then nothing else

[modern peak]

tbh i wouldve thought lor would have one of the highest completions due to people probably like playing it when the game got updated and then just going back to their source ports

[crystal hill]

One mistake in front of a chaingunner and you'll be gone

[median cloud]

Mill kinda hard

Atleast on pistol start

[crystal hill]

it does, exactly for that reason, I presume

[modern peak]

shame sigil 2 doesnt have an achievement tied to it

couldve updated it

[storm tapir]

That map is lucky most didnt try to pistol start it or it would be most hated map alongside speed from plutonia

[median cloud]

Tbh classic doom 1 is pretty darn easy. So easy that whenever someone says they struggle on it I just assume they're either playing without a mouse or with always run off

[modern peak]

woe episode 4 be on ye

[storm tapir]

Or they are running into shotgun zombies

[twin mortar]

Would be silly for the gamerscore count to be like 1050 tho

[crystal hill]

I'd rather have an extra achievement

[storm tapir]

Sigil 2 achiev should be to tyson all the cybers

[modern peak]

tbh we need more achievements ingeneral or something all the achievements can be gotten very quickly

[storm tapir]

Yes even the ones in final map

[crystal hill]

yeah, they all feel rather token

[twin mortar]

Quake II's achievement list is sad

[storm tapir]

Half of them are did you actually play LoR achievs

[median cloud]

The achievements are also cheatable sadly

But I did get them legit

[crystal hill]

that really sucks

[storm tapir]

And no beat plutonia on nightmare achiev

[modern peak]

i mean you have to go through the fuckass expansions so i think its fair

[crystal hill]

I'm proud of doing the 8 levels in a row one legit

[twin mortar]

The Unity ports had really fun achievements

[median cloud]

Also tnt map 32 is pretty tough

[median cloud]

Fuck nightmare lolol

[twin mortar]

The one for beating DOOM 1 in under an hour got me to keep replaying the game and mastering my skills

[crystal hill]

I think he's memeing

[modern peak]

billions must have nightmare achievements for all expansions

[covert swan]

The fact that Plutonia is harder, doesn't necessarily mean that it's the MAIN reason why TNT has more completion. And thus, I am not saying Plutonia is bad, I just prefer TNT over Plutonia.

[storm tapir]

OK maybe not nightmare plutonia but no reason there aren't achievs for -fast mode

[crystal hill]

I never said you said Plutonia is bad

[covert swan]

It doesn't add significant features to Crispy Doom.

[modern peak]

add an achievement for beating doom on the dos version

[crystal hill]

I was arguing that the difficulty is in fact the main reason Plutonia is less played. Alongside some just not liking it, or Plutonia being lower down the list than stuff like TNT or the Master Levels

[covert swan]

You implied that TNT is better -> logically -> Plutonia is worse/bad. That's why I assured that you didn't misunderstand.

[covert swan]

To be fair. If you know the layout of Plutonia maps it's not that hard. It's just mean with it's awful traps.

[crystal hill]

Something being better than something else doesn't mean the other thing is bad

[covert swan]

I believe the MEAN traps are influencing more rather than difficulty overall

[crystal hill]

Again, same applies to TNT

What works for one will also work for the other

[crystal hill]

the traps, the fights, the gameplay is what makes Plutonia hard

[covert swan]

What do you mean ? If you compare 2 things and consider one better, automatically means the other is worse.

[storm tapir]

Worse doesn't mean bad

[covert swan]

Regarding TNT - People complain it's boring, yet another story.

[storm tapir]

Like an 8 vs 9 situation

[crystal hill]

exactly

Yeah, you can think two things are good, but one is better

[median cloud]

It's not like the completion difference is signifcant either

[crystal hill]

the large maps dont help

[median cloud]

Legit 2% vs 1.8% or smth

[covert swan]

If you compare to all doom wads of course it's not bad. But if you compare between TNT and Plutonia and make such implications, that means you think that TNT is good and Plutonia is bad, which is not true.

That's why I clarified that I don't think in that way.

[storm tapir]

You can think both are bad

[crystal hill]

or that both are good

[covert swan]

I can, but at that moment, @crystal hill implied that if TNT is better than Plutonia is worse -> bad

So I clarified that, it's not about being good or bad

It's about personal preference

[crystal hill]

I did?

[covert swan]

Right here.

[storm tapir]

I think only underrated "main" wad is hell to pay but that's mostly because no one knew it exists or got scared by how it looks

[covert swan]

Incredible wad. Absolute banger 🔥

[crystal hill]

you pinged me to say that actually, you were talking about TNT and not Plutonia

to which I responded with that - that TNT was being compared to Plutonia, so Plutonia is also relevant to the conversation

[covert swan]

Because you pinged me while I was talking to other user. Thus, responding.

[crystal hill]

I didn't ping you, actually

[covert swan]

Wait...I just checked you didn't, pardon. But as I said, responded.

[crystal hill]

yeah?

[median cloud]

u ppl are just arguing about nothing

[crystal hill]

What does me responding have to do with anything?

[covert swan]

Let's not make this complicated. Whoever likes Plutonia, let him/her play Plutonia, whoever likes TNT, let him/her play TNT.

[crystal hill]

You were the one complicating this from the start

Saying I was implying something I wasn't, then trying to focus on me "responding" (whatever relevance that has)

[covert swan]

You said this, thus complicating the stuff, initially. Please do not turn on me.

You just kept spamming "Plutonia is harder"

[crystal hill]

Spamming, lol

[covert swan]

You wrote it not once.

[crystal hill]

fucking hell

[covert swan]

So yeah

[crystal hill]

So if you write something twice, you're spamming?

what a joke

[covert swan]

I clearly see that this is being ignored.

[woven swallow]

it literally does

have you not used it in awhile?

[covert swan]

Actually, it has been a while. If you could please share with the recent changes (if they're significant) I could actually change my mind.

Would really appreciate that

[woven swallow]

I'm making a review about it, i'll explain it in full detail

[covert swan]

Awesome.

[woven swallow]

not just Russian doom, also chocolate and crispy doom (and all its forks) since making a video only just talking about one sourceport will just be very short

[crystal hill]

@median cloud I've finally beaten TNT Revilution. Some maps were good, even really good (in particular those near the end), but there's enough frustrating ones to make me mixed on the experience

Definitely leaning positive, but I don't think it's as good as on my first playthrough

[covert swan]

I know, because I have played the early version of that source-port and thus didn't notice something very varying from Choco and Crispy. But as I said, waiting for your review.

[cosmic pagoda]

playing through the first eviternity again, man dehydration is pure genius

and the midi is such an earworm

[covert swan]

Eviternity is indeed a very detailed and well made wad. It applies not only to dehydration. Midi is just chef's kiss.

For me, Speed of Doom is one of the best wads out there.

[median cloud]

Except for that afrit that teleports behind u

not fun when ur 40 minutes into a run

[crystal hill]

there's afrits in Eviternity? oh god

[covert swan]

That is probably to remind us not to relax 😆

[cosmic pagoda]

I use saves, but its still a nailbiter after nailbiter, the amount of time I spend with <10 health on this map is colossal lol

expert use of spectres too to ruin your day

they get released from somewhere while you focus on what gets released in front of you

blocking your retreat and ending up mauling you from behind

[median cloud]

ID software is absolutely great at balancing

Doom 2's arsenal and monsters are balanced in such a way that you can make so many different combat scenarios

Quake 3's weapons are also just superbly balanced, u got every type of aiming

[crystal hill]

even stuff people call useless, like pinkies and spectres, serve a valuable role (getting in your face and being meat shields for other demons, among others)

[cosmic pagoda]

cybruisers are much more lethal in evi1 too compared to evi2, the hitscan that follows the rocket is brutal

[covert swan]

Agreed.

[median cloud]

spectres with archviles for example

incredible combination

[crystal hill]

ohh yes

arch viles are dealt with quick by rockets. Rockets you can't fire if spectres are in your face

[median cloud]

Plus no chance at infighting

unless you use the splash damage from the archvile attack to turn spectres

But that's not a viable strategy

[crystal hill]

well no, you cant infight enemies with arch viles

only have the vile fight them

[cosmic pagoda]

do viles even damage cybies and masterminds btw

[crystal hill]

yes

[cosmic pagoda]

seems like they shouldnt since its pure splash damage

[crystal hill]

but very slightly

arch vile explosions have two parts to them. One is an actual explosion, the other is standard damage

[median cloud]

ah right I forgot lol

then yeah the arches will never target the spectres/pinkies

[crystal hill]

mhm

[cosmic pagoda]

oh, didnt know that

[crystal hill]

well, now you do

given enough time, archies can kill spiders or cybies, but that takes a really long time, unless you have a lot of them

[median cloud]

u know the spidermastermind really sucks at infighting

if she stands too close she gets swarmed and stun locked

if she stands too far she just loses

[crystal hill]

yeaaaaaaah. Not a great enemy

[median cloud]

In scythe map 25 I had a spidermastermind lose to 2 arachnotrons

1 arach died the other survived

[crystal hill]

by the way - anyone more inclined with gameplay mods, what mapset do you recommend playing high noon drifter on?

[median cloud]

meanwhile cybers be killing entire hordes of monsters and still almost have lik half hp lol

[median cloud]

a fistful of doom? xd

[crystal hill]

ehhh, way too short

Maybe I could try Scythe, that's on my mind now

[echo current]

Sigil is finished

It was a very fun episode

Romeo still got it, the game was challenging, had to shotgun circle strafe a lot of barons early on, but it was fun

[sharp veldt]

hoo, get ready for SIGIL 2

I love it but my god it's a step up in terms of cruelty potential

also just like first SIGIL, the soundtrack is amazing

[crystal hill]

Yeah, I had a feeling that would be the case

I played the first level, and had no will to go further

one day, though

[sharp veldt]

It took me no less than 10 deaths before I figured out how to get past that first section of it

[cosmic pagoda]

yeah didnt do sigil 2 either, its really held back by not having doom 2 monsters

played the first map IIRC

its just more of the same

[echo current]

Seems like Romeo doesn't want to make a Doom II expansion

I really wonder what he can do with the chain gunners

[echo current]

You could play on easier difficulties to get a feel for the levels

I played Sigil on hurt me plenty and it humbled me

[cosmic pagoda]

the hell knight is such an underappreciated addition and sandy gets unfair flak for it, but a lot of doom 1 and sigil would be way more fun if it had knights instead of barons

[median cloud]

I also never finished Sigil 2, just didn't like the gameplay

[cosmic pagoda]

the baron is too much of a damage sponge, that gets tedious

[median cloud]

The monster palette of Doom 1 is way too limiting

It's actually funny how so many years ago peopel were shitting on Doom 2 for being a meh sequel, but without Doom 2 I highly doubt Doom would have its longevity

[crystal hill]

I think he's making one now. Just taking a while

[cosmic pagoda]

yeah, the monster palette truly makes so much possible

[crystal hill]

Nah, my ego's too big for that. I've beaten Sigil and harder wads on UV, I'll eventually get through Sigil 2 on UV

[crystal hill]

you can make it work, but that requires a deft hand

the two wads that have really managed to, from what I've played, are Sigil and Return to Hadron Episode 1

[median cloud]

Meh I found Sigil fine but not something I've ever revisited

[echo current]

Sigil II is a bitch

Holy hell

[crystal hill]

I've played it twice so far, and its been by far my favourite Doom 1 wad

[echo current]

I guess Romeo uses shotgunners as the hitscan spam enemy

and auto run kills you because narrow ledges

[cosmic pagoda]

PL2 still my favourite of the hard wads

[crystal hill]

good choice

[cosmic pagoda]

shotgunners are a menace on nightmare

[median cloud]

PL2 might have the best opening map to a wad I've ever played

[crystal hill]

one bad thing about shotgunner spam is how much ammo they give you, so you're incentivised to use it over your better weapons

[crystal hill]

play auger zenith

[cosmic pagoda]

auger zenith is a vibe

[crystal hill]

I love Plut 2 more than most people, but even that one pales in comparison to Auger

[cosmic pagoda]

still confused how they did vanilla compatible breakable windows in AZ

[crystal hill]

the doomer boards employ some Doom engine wizards

[median cloud]

First ancient aliens

Think ancient aliens will take me a bit longer than Scythe 😄

[crystal hill]

get on it then

So much good stuff you've gotta play

[median cloud]

Seriously

Atm I'm gonna do Ancient Aliens -> Augur Zenith -> Scythe 2

I'm at map 10 of ancient aliens iirc

[crystal hill]

another toughie

the next two episodes both start off relatively easy compared to the last maps of the prior one

[median cloud]

I'm watching some person on YouTube talk about how he experienced Doom playing for the first time and it's funny how much his opinion aligns with mine when I was new.
Hating E2M6 in Doom 1, despite being my favorite now.
Hating the longer TNT maps like Map 20 and map 21 (even tho I still dislike 21)

E2M5 is 100% the worst E2 map tho

[crystal hill]

its been a while since I played Doom 1

[median cloud]

I've played Doom 1 so many times and the more I played it the more I realize how shit E3 is

[crystal hill]

Especially Episode 2. I played Episode 3 out of boredom a year or so ago (which may have been the single thing that started me down my current rabbit hole), and Episode 1 I played recently to try and get the one achievement

[median cloud]

Unholy Cathedral and Limbo are some of my least favorite maps in all of Doom

[median cloud]

E2 is fine imo, some stinkers some gems

[crystal hill]

Limbo sucks ass. Way too big, way too empty

[storm tapir]

I wonder what's the longest anyone spent lost in limbo

[cosmic pagoda]

unpopular opinion but e2m6 is sandys finest work

the atmosphere combined with the midi is unparalleled

[median cloud]

It's one of my favorite Doom 1 maps so I agree with you

Cannot beat E1M3 but might be second place

[woven swallow]

It's limit removing but still, very impressive on how they pulled it off somehow

[median cloud]

wait wtf augur zenith is cl2 compatible?

Wow

[crystal hill]

Its limit removing

fucking somehow

[modern peak]

i may have to drop scythe tbh, map 30 is actually just too confusing for me

though question is what wad do i play then

like i want something relatively challenging but not like slaughtermap wads

[crystal hill]

ancient aliens has two slaughter maps near the end, but they're both managable

[modern peak]

i heard eviternity is good but idk how hard it is

[crystal hill]

Havent played it, can't comment

you could try a wad called Disjunction. If you dont mind a bit of ammo starvation in your maps, you'll be rewarded with great gameplay and wonderful sights

at least in the first four maps, I haven't played further yet. I hope the rest of the wad doesnt disappoint

[modern peak]

ill try ancient aliens then

[crystal hill]

probably the safer bet

[median cloud]

Map 30 is confusing?

If you'd say hard I'd understand but confusing?

[median cloud]

Bit harder than Plutonia imo

[modern peak]

i mean i just cant figure out exactly where im meant to go or what exactly i have to do to progress aside for just killing everything

[median cloud]

Well just kill everything then 😄

[modern peak]

genius

[median cloud]

I mean it's not a puzzle map haha

I dont understand how you can be confused

[modern peak]

theres so many branching paths to take that it kinda feels like it idk

[median cloud]

If you mean you don't know what route to take to not die then yeah I understand

the pathing is what's mostly difficult about that map

I looked up decino's video of it and just followed that mostly

[modern peak]

i cannot be bothered to watch a 40 minute video to figure out where i am meant to go to beat a doom map

[dusk furnace]

Hi

[crystal hill]

hope you dont plan on playing sunlust

[modern peak]

i prefer to keep my sanity thanks

[crystal hill]

I wish it wasn't in dutch, so I could get some helpful commentary as well

[median cloud]

Well thats fair lol but you still make it sound like map 30 is some huge puzzle map

I guess you mean you don't know what path to take optimally to beat the map rather

Your strategy of just killing everything works if you don't run out of ammo I suppose

[median cloud]

Ah yeah he april fooled that one, good thing I speak dutch haha

[crystal hill]

Lucky bastard, lol

[crystal hill]

hello

[storm tapir]

If the issue is where to start i think a lot of people rush bfg then either fight from the area with jump to stairs on left or top left jump into lava to reach the mancubus arena from behind.. or they learn the 1 min route and consider it beat lol

[sharp veldt]

Plutonia is a cakewalk in comparison to the 2nd half of the Eviternity imo

[median cloud]

Ya I rush BFG then go down the stairs, kill the cyber on the first stairs. Clear the yellow skull with all the barons

Then I push the switch and try to make the other cyber infight with revs

while I rush yellow skull, after picking that up I just do cleanup for the entire area

I think the decino route is probably the safest

[median cloud]

Eviternity isn't as hard as your traditional hard wads like pl2, av, hr imo

Eviternity 2 is harder for sure

[sharp veldt]

it's all fun and games until you get to map 32 which is 16th map iirc

[median cloud]

Tbf I skipped that one

[sharp veldt]

I didn't, spent few good hours there because monster count is like 1200+ iirc

[storm tapir]

Doesn't sound that bad if it doesn't reach hr2 level

[median cloud]

hr2 is more 10 minutes of blazing spam. This one is very long and dragged out

Which is also why I skipped it haha

[storm tapir]

My only memories of hr2 are it happened and God why did I pistol start

[median cloud]

I dont think I will ever touch hr2

I wonder if I will pull a dean of doom and keep sunlust for last lol

[crystal hill]

HR2 seems like the antithesis of fun

not worth playing unless you really want to prove yourself good enough to beat it, I guess

[storm tapir]

I wouldn't say all maps suck

But not all of them are worth trying

[crystal hill]

I'd rather play something with generally good maps, or entirely good maps, rather than picking through a cesspit to find something worthwhile

[storm tapir]

The difficulty in that wad is like a chainsaw, makes 0 sense if a map will be easy or hard (or good to begin with)

It isn't really cesspit level of bad but rip if you want to get 100% kills (probably only reason I didn't rq, dont think I even killed half the total demons maybe I still have the stats saved in dsda)

Oh ye i remembered what i hated most about it, F%%% map 4

[crystal hill]

I played it months ago and I don't retain much about it, other than me hating it

lots of bullshit fights that you're underequipped for, and the maps looking ugly

[storm tapir]

Ugly doesn't give them justice، wonder if they were trying to do a 10 textures challenge on some of those maps

This reminded me hr2 has good music though, time to listen to it again without 20 barons and 4 viles fighting over me the entire time (although I think some were ripped off from icarus)

[karmic cliff]

What's some horror mods that Doom has?
Even stuff like Pink Valley

[woven swallow]

Limnial doom2

[crystal hill]

lillith.pk3, Ghouls Forest, that sort of stuff

go to a channel called Midnight, he makes a lot of videos on Doom horror mods

[karmic cliff]

Yeah, that's how I found out about Pink Valley.
Though do wish his reactions weren't so forced. Lol

[crystal hill]

his thumbnails are quite amusing

if I was at all into Doom horror wads, I might give him a watch though

[sharp veldt]

Uhhh, TNT Phobia

[storm tapir]

There is a wad called that? Lol

[karmic cliff]

Outside of his forced reactions. Though the idea of attempting to watch him play Dead Space, Evil Within, or Silent Hill with forced reactions would be nails on a chalkboard.
He's not bad, but I seemingly pick up more how to properly use his given arsenal than him. More so with how Pink Valley plays. Tbf, doesn't help him how he forced himself through the hardest difficulty.

[crystal hill]

I'm a few minutes into watching one of his videos - I don't think I'll be watching more. The editing and way he speaks about the topic gets on my nerves

doubly so when he put a disclaimer saying he'd do his best to cover the wad with respect

[modern peak]

doom 3

[woven swallow]

the biggest edgelord in the doom community

[karmic cliff]

Yeah, I think he even occasionally shys away from just saying what's truly happening.
Like youtubers who will cover explicitly dark material to just tone it down with words beating around a bush, purely for monetization.
If you're gonna touch this material, don't be such a coward.

[crystal hill]

Or don't be such a jokester

Not very appropos for the dark subject matter he's covering. I dunno, maybe that works for some people

[woven swallow]

note: comparing the mod i recommended to pink valley, and the mods Mr RulesMcGee just listed....is like comparing a giant stone to mountains, if we're talking crazy, gorey, extreme stuff, it's not it....BUT if you like backrooms like horror, maybe you will enjoy it

[storm tapir]

I very rarely find someone streaming horror games who isn't trying to be as annoying as possible, no idea how that gets views lol

[karmic cliff]

I do enjoy liminal horror.
Silent Hill uses tons of it.

[woven swallow]

okay great, i thought i just recommended something less cool...

i should also mention there is liminal doom1

[karmic cliff]

Nah, you're good.
Even with me loving extreme horror bit more, I still love horror as awhole.

[woven swallow]

thank you Ghosty

[karmic cliff]

I guess it appeals to those who want the emotions that horror can provoke into you to be ruined stead of allowing themselves to feel.

[modern peak]

me when i discover the 30th most disturbing doom wad this week

[crystal hill]

"this is illegal" then why are you playing it?

[covert swan]

"This is illegal" clickbait goes hard 🗣️

[karmic cliff]

Ain't no Sad Satan in sight.
That's one of the few truly illegal horror games I know.

[twin mortar]

Incredible how Sad Satan's engine is the same one used by that teletubby-themed Slender clone

[karmic cliff]

Think I've heard about that.
That's kinda crazy to have confirmation now. Especially how it can destroy your PC. Lol
Feel like you'd only know about Sad Satan if you're heavily invested in horror or was around during its time. I could be very wrong

[twin mortar]

I've heard of it from random iceberg videos I put on sometimes for background noise. I've always disliked Midnight's video format and thumbnails, titles, etc., but I should honestly take a watch someday. Get to know what I've been staying away from. Low expectations though

[karmic cliff]

One of my top 3 official Doom wads

[mossy snow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ylzXqxaqVI

[karmic cliff]

Do go in with low expectations.
As myself and the others mentioned, he's annoying when it comes to horror. If you watch the horror mods.
His normal Doom gameplay, believe he still has those forced reactions/humor tendencies.
Alongside him regurgitating basic Doom lore that all Doom fans should know by default.

[sharp veldt]

done with Dead Sea Scrolls , final level is crazy

[median cloud]

@crystal hill ancient aliens map 10 is a fantastic map

died to the 3 cybers because I was too greedy grabbing a cell pack 😭

[crystal hill]

thats one of the hardest fights in the wad if you ask me

at least unless you know about the cheese with the red key

[median cloud]

I went in blind but I played really good micro

like pushing at the right time stuff like that

didnt even pick up the bfg until most of the monsters were dead

[crystal hill]

not bad

[median cloud]

unfortunately I fucked up by just being too greedy

2 cyber left had no cells, saw the cell pack, grabbed it but died to rockets

[crystal hill]

Disjunction 7 maps in is still going amazingly strong

Wads like this vindicate my plan to play every single Cacoward. I highly doubt I would have given this a second look even if I did discover it one day, but it's likely going to end up in my top 15 or so of all time

[storm tapir]

@crystal hill made me find how many kills I did in HR2 lol, then I saw map32 has 1600~ monsters, grindfiesta the map

[crystal hill]

sounds like fun

[storm tapir]

And I shamelessly didn't play map29 after seeing it had 900 monsters

Time to fix that years ago rq

(or rather boredom quit, map28 is daaamn exhausting)

[crystal hill]

I feel like there are better uses of your time, but if you insist

[storm tapir]

eh at least it wasn't boring

way worse maps in that mapset, map32 is just a hectic disaster

[crystal hill]

that can't be the highest bar to clear

[storm tapir]

it is like go16it

the maps don't have as many enemies as I remember, not like 300-400 on most maps is a small number (knowing like half those are revs and viles)

At some point seeing an imp becomes annoying because it isn't a rev/hk and throws off rhythm

[median cloud]

its a fast map

[languid quarry]

I'm new to GZDOOM and I'm looking for some good .pk3s and .wads to play, what are some must play levels? I want to play some that change up the gameplay like Brutal Doom does

[modern peak]

sunlust

[crystal hill]

hideous destructor

[cinder sapphire]

did you just recommend HDest? I thought you were against gameplay mods like that 🤔

[crystal hill]

correct. I recommended the most BS one I could think of, to discourage further playing of them

[cinder sapphire]

well that isn't very helpful. they probably took that as a legitimate recommendation. not very kind either smh

[modern peak]

kindness is overrated

we must be evil

[cinder sapphire]

the adults are talking.

[modern peak]

and

[crystal hill]

Hey, some folks like it

and if he doesn't, I imagine he'll overcome the mental anguish it causes him eventually

[cinder sapphire]

yeah, I love it, personally. just figured if you were trying to bs them, you'd add some sarcasm to that. I actually thought you had a sudden change of heart lol

[crystal hill]

nope

i'm surprised you remember that about me

[cinder sapphire]

well, your reaction when I recommended it at some point was pretty surprising to me, so I kinda remembered that (wasn't 100% sure, though). but I do see you bring that sentiment up from time to time.

[crystal hill]

I don't mean to yuck on other people's yum. I just love vanilla Doom gameplay too much to want to change it, unless accompanied by vastly different levels

[cinder sapphire]

fair enough 👌

[crystal hill]

there's plenty of maps doing very cool things in vanilla/boom, even after years of cacowards of wads

[cinder sapphire]

true

[languid quarry]

I like Gameplay mods but, I'm not saying the OG Doom gameplay is bad

I'm also looking for some fun and unique maps

[crystal hill]

do you like a blend of platforming and fps gameplay?

[cinder sapphire]

I hear a lot of talk about Going Down. that seems to be a top contender for maps

[crystal hill]

I used to really like it

Now I'm absolutely head over heels in love

[cinder sapphire]

it's definitely on my list

[crystal hill]

it ticks all of my boxes

the levels are small but pack a bunch, the music is great and very unique, which works together with the visuals to create a slightly surreal, slightly comical atmosphere. Did I mention the gameplay kicks ass?

[languid quarry]

Yes most of the time

[crystal hill]

then I can sincerely recommend Golden Souls 1 (the remastered version) and Golden Souls 2

they're a mix of super mario games and doom, with a pinch of collectathons in there

Golden Souls 2 is my favourite Doom engine anything, and GS1 Remastered is in the same tier

[cinder sapphire]

maybeee Diabolus Ex? a future/cyberpunk looking map

[crystal hill]

nothing feels better than beating a really hard doom level before bed, so it's not gonna gnaw at you all night and all day at work

[median cloud]

which one did you beat?

I beat ancient aliens map 10 before bed ahah

[crystal hill]

Disjunction Map 8

I fucked up real bad before the final fight, so I had to gamble on the cyber infighting with the two revenants also in that fight

I was low health and the revs didn't cooperate too well, but I executed the plan near perfectly. I'm really really happy with myself

Wad is really really good, you should put it on your to play list

[halcyon willow]

Paradise (technically Zandronum), Godless Night, Winter's Fury, Insanity Edged

GZDoom maps with vanilla gameplay: Coma Moonlight, Verdant Citadel, Bastion of Chaos, Lullaby

[languid quarry]

Should I be taking notes

[halcyon willow]

They're all cacoward winners so it's a good place to start

Godless Night and Bastion of Chaos are particularly spicy on UV

[crystal hill]

Bastion of Chaos sounds familiar, I wonder who made it

[halcyon willow]

Hmmm, couldn't say

A mystery

[mellow matrix]

I have finished Alien Vendetta. I did something!
Maps 26-29 was a grueling stretch of levels. I enjoyed 25 a lot but 26 + 27 was like 2 hours of nonstop heavyweight fights. 28 had awful Cyberdemon encounters where I basically had to slow roll them with the SSG. That one also had kinda confusing progression. 29 was fun but felt awkward since it was markedly easier than the 3 before. I could have used the break between 27 and 28. Icon of Sin I save scummed to my heart's content because that boss "fight" sucks.
Thinking back I really didn't enjoy 27 at all. I was constantly low on ammo and there were entirely too many Barons.

[storm tapir]

That map has an obsessive amount of secrets with ammo and spheres, found them all?

[mellow matrix]

Not all but I believe I found 9 or 10.
That would definitely be a reason I disliked the level. I prefer secrets to be little bonuses or add-ons, not game-changing stashes that put you on the back foot if you miss them.

[halcyon willow]

Time to learn how to bfg 2-shot

Also Dark Dome is one of the greatest maps ever made

Peak Doom

[mellow matrix]

I can 2 shot fairly consistently. The biggest stumbling block in Stench of Evil was actually the mass of Barons near the beginning. I think I used my cells too early. Ended up having to go back and finish them off one by one wayyyyyy later, and I left the specters in the Spiderdemon moat alive when I exited the level.
I liked Dark Dome but I prefer Demonic Hordes. It was more self-paced vs the sugar rush of Dark Dome. Also DD has too many Pain Elementals which pissed me off lol.

[desert tinsel]

Odamex Monday Night Horde is starting if anyone wants to join the multiplayer event!

[arctic canopy]

Hi guys

[strong sluice]

Hii

Can I open Doom here?

[bitter shoal]

the first context that question makes sense to me is in the form of the Discord gif output

[bitter shoal]

you sort of can... it is terrible but someone did implement it

yes

[bitter shoal]

... did that person get banned sometime after I responded to them?

[covert swan]

I have played Winter's Fury,. it's a banger.

[median cloud]

AV 27 is pretty tough on ammo yeah, I remember that being the issue I had as well

Congrats on beating AV tho

Honestly 2 shotting a cyber is a skill I don't really possess yet. I can do it, especially in 1v1s with enough space. But I'm not too good at it

[sharp veldt]

you'd have to be right in their face iirc, Eviternity 2 pre final level had a trial where you have to one shot a cyberdemon per platform

[crystal hill]

I can't two shot a cyber if my emotions are running high and I'm in an enclosed space. I'm too nervous to try

[median cloud]

You can't one shot a cyber but I know the trial you're talking about

iirc it's 3 shots tho not actually 2

[median cloud]

yeah same

[sharp veldt]

https://youtu.be/eTaUXJkUtcE?si=I2dyvgL65PvZXHDD

true, looks like i forgot, but at best you really can 2 shot them

[median cloud]

yeah better for your ammo

This map took me ages to beat I remember. Those trials are pretty tough

I don't really like gimmick maps much tho

[sharp veldt]

Ehhh I'd take it over this though
https://youtu.be/d-F_EYBrAR0?si=Nn_ymIATvwndzoMH