classic-doom

[bitter shoal]

I am way too slow of a player to replay stuff so I can't just replay stuff all the time

[crystal hill]

the Doom wads I replay the most are the Golden Souls stuff

[calm lichen]

However I replayed Doom 0 like 3 times in 5 days

[crystal hill]

and even that isnt more than twice or three times a year, TOPS

[calm lichen]

I’m very reserved with actual games

[bitter shoal]

speaking of slow, I hadn't done the TNT playthrough I said I would because I know I won't beat it in time before a game I'm getting soon lol. I also dropped DOOM 3 for that reason

[calm lichen]

You don’t juggle games?

[crystal hill]

That's an odd way to think about it

[crystal hill]

yeah, you can do that

or wait to play the new thing for a day or two

[calm lichen]

I play 2 games at once to keep away from burnout

[bitter shoal]

I do but they are games with dailies and stuff on rotation.

[crystal hill]

yuck

[calm lichen]

So like I’ll run Doom 3 during the day and play new shit at night

[crystal hill]

that's how I've been playing Doom wads

works like a charm

until both wads are real hard, then I start to get burnt out

[bitter shoal]

Like even if I wanted to juggle games I dunno if DOOM 3 is worth it :P it is an enjoyable enough game but not like.. interesting enough

[calm lichen]

I can’t do that with Doom wads, I need my focus on one at a time

[bitter shoal]

and since I'm dunking on DOOM 3 now I am going to talk about something I ended up realizing because of it but I need to brb first

[calm lichen]

Doom wads I usually play like 6 maps then stop for the day unless the wad is massive where I play 1 or 2 then stop

[bitter shoal]

and what I say there will be having PRCP2's map 7 catching strays instead so that DOOM 3 is safe

[crystal hill]

how come?

I can easily split my focus between two. Possibly due to pistol starting

[calm lichen]

I dunno, it just feels wrong. Each map has a gimmick and habits and it throws me off when I mix them up

[crystal hill]

If I mix up maps, they aren't really worth remembering then

even then, it's not such a bad thing. Whispers of Satan isn't very memorable, minus the secret maps. But I remember that it is remarkably solid throughout

[calm lichen]

Well I’m not mixing up maps, just their habits

But its a very factor based thing that I can’t be bothered to explain

Some maps are very distinct like Auger Zenith and HellBound while if I tried juggling Doom Zero and Nerve I’d be a little confused

[crystal hill]

I dont place too much emphasis on remembering maps

good wads have unmemorable maps, and vice versa

[bitter shoal]

anyway I was thinking the reason ambushes tend to work in DOOM is because they lead to encounters that are good enough on their own and you are merely being goaded into engaging with it, while ambushes I felt were tacky were just a couple of enemies hoping to catch me but a couple of enemies that just kind of come at you and aren't utilized in a strategic way isn't really a big set piece encounter

if that makes sense

[cold badge]

I’m trying to find online a list of console commands for the kex engine release of Doom 1 + 2, but I haven’t seen anything.

[crystal hill]

when using UZDoom, is it possible to get rid of the splash screen at the start?

[pearl tiger]

Doom + Doom II crashed on me when trying a Doom II multiplayer session (UV) on Switch 2. So if anyone here was with me, I apologize.

Okay, so I won't be able to do Multiplayer UV with others on Switch 2 until there's a fix (it disconnected me the second time).

[pearl tiger]

Is that an issue others are experiencing or is it just me?

[bitter shoal]

It might be hard to find someone that also plays on Switch 2 here, at least the people I talk to regularly in this channel play on PC

[pearl tiger]

I do crossplay anyway, so that part isn't a problem. The problem is that the game disconnects or crashes when I'm trying to play Doom II on UV online with others.

[vague scroll]

E6M7: Exist*

Doomguy: 💀fck hate my life

[native anchor]

Who has ever seriously attempted Classic Doom on Nightmare?

[twin mortar]

I did and got to E4M6 😌
... on the BFG Edition/X360 version. That one has a way easier Nightmare

[crystal hill]

I tried once, got to E1M3 and figured it wasnt worth my time

[torpid yacht]

Only for the achievement on ps4

[native anchor]

If E4M6 doesn’t make you despise Cacodemons, I don’t know what will. One straight up killed me right after I killed the Cyberdemon, and so I was stuck pistol starting the level which I just couldn’t do, and I gave up on my Thy Flesh Consumed run.

Playing Thy Flesh Consumed without saves is a death sentence for me.

[bitter shoal]

If E4M6 doesn’t make you despise Cacodemons, I don’t know what will.

https://tenor.com/view/romero-doom-john-romero-gif-6772511900807038662

let me tell youa bout a game called SIGIL 2

also though isn't that basically doing a pistol start run since dying just reset you bacfk to the start of the level and not the whole episode?

IIRC Ep. 4 levels got significantly easier after John Romero's E4M2 so I assume it shouldn't be too bad to pistol start it

[native anchor]

Definitely not E4M6. You don’t get much ammo to start with, so dealing with the large amount of Cacos is a big problem.

The ones at the start of E4M2 are way easier to deal with since you can get more shells from the lava stairwell if you pistol start.

In fact, I feel like E4M1 and E4M2 are a little harder in the Kex port because the glitch you can do to grab items through walls isn’t present.

You can only do that in Chocolate Doom or Crispy Doom.

So that means you cannot grab the red key through the fence in E4M1, and you cannot grab the BFG through the wall when playing the Kex port.

[bitter shoal]

shoot maybe tomorrow I need to play E4M6 rq

[crystal hill]

I never liked E4M6

The sniping cyberdemon thats hard to kill is only one of that level's foibles

[rancid trout]

Hello guys I have a question about wolfenstein 3d

[icy umbra]

What was this map again

[crystal hill]

the one with the cyberdemon at the end

that you need to fight before you can exit

[icy umbra]

Damn I forgor

[woven swallow]

Yeah sure what is it?

[rancid trout]

Is vanilla wolfenstein 3d is as good as vanilla doom 1 like should I play it or wait till a get a pc and mod it

[woven swallow]

Wolf3D is fun as a piece of FPS history, but it’s much simpler than Doom 1, so don’t expect the same polish. Vanilla is fine to try

[crystal hill]

if your mind immediately goes to modding it, just play Doom 1 or 2 instead

[rancid trout]

I've played them

They're fun

[crystal hill]

indeed

Wolf 3D is much simpler, as Kenny said. To the point that I don't enjoy it

[woven swallow]

Also, question, wdym by modding it? Do you mean simple Qaulity of life features or do want a whole entire total conversion type modding? If it's the first one then well no mods needed just use EcWolf, if it's the the second one then just use doom2, because most extreme Wolfenstein mods are made for doom2

[rancid trout]

Idk man I watched civvie 11 play the game and it doesn't look that fun and I have busy gaming backlog idk if its worth my time

[crystal hill]

do you already own it?

if so, there's nothing to lose by playing it for 5-10 minutes to check it out

[rancid trout]

No

[crystal hill]

well, I'd say don't bother, based on my own views on the game

[rancid trout]

I have a modded 360 I can download it any time I want

[crystal hill]

it goes on sale for a pound frequently

so it wouldnt hurt too much to buy it and try it

[woven swallow]

It's probably not worth your time

[rancid trout]

Simple mods sounds good to me

[woven swallow]

Well just use a fan made port like EcWolf, no mods needed

[rancid trout]

Alright I guess I'm not playing it on my Xbox 360 and I will wait till I get a pc so I can mod it thanks for the help

[woven swallow]

Glad to help, feel free to ask more help about boomer shooters stuff, I'd be happy to help

[median cloud]

Anyone any predictions for the Cacowards this year?

[solemn socket]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1359660117963964616/1446034452131090432/IMG_8613.png?ex=69328407&is=69313287&hm=89350be1e390e9066df5168040a2bf0a64a002bd0235998ada55a2d564cf2193&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=360&height=779

hello pumpkin man

[solemn socket]

belot for runner ups?

[crystal hill]

I suck at predictions, but I hope a certain wad by GermanPeter at least gets a mention

I also hope it's reduced in scope somewhat compared to previous years

[median cloud]

Whats this? Cant seem to find it

[solemn socket]

should be at your "you" page

mobile only pretty sure

[median cloud]

Just as a pop up?

Is it possible it's an extension

[solemn socket]

popup

[median cloud]

Hmm dont see it

[woven swallow]

Blue brother 2025, Neon overdrive, We have doom at home, Amalgoom, Sandy cites (I think that's what it's called), Sunless empire, Hardfest 3, Vindaloo and Blitz: race against time(all of them are very good, definitely gonna make it up there)

[wintry copper]

Into Sandy's Cities yes

also TNT 2 Devilution has to get one too 100%

[mortal silo]

I don't know if these will win, but I thoroughly enjoyed:
Combustion by fiendish, Black Sun by tobmsu, Forlorn by LVENdead.
I played half of The Warp and thought it was a breath of fresh air. And of course TNT2 is content complete and one of the best megawads of all time.

[median cloud]

Is TNT2 that good? I played TNT Revilution and loved it but never played Devilution

[crystal hill]

that's quite high praise.

[median cloud]

Yeah but you're the biggest TNT hater on earth lolol

[crystal hill]

So, this isn't TNT

I haven't even played it. All I'm saying is that it's high praise, because there's a lot of megawads it would need to beat to get that high

[cold wadi]

TNT? are we discussing modding? oh it's the maps

[median cloud]

TNT2 is already a cacoward winner of 2023 btw

[crystal hill]

Would they give it another one?

I've seen wads get seperate cacowards for their seperate episodes, but I dont think I've seen a case like this before

[median cloud]

Nah they wouldn't

I just thought the commenter I replied to was listing cacoward contenders but I think he just listed stuff he liked

Or maybe the rest are cacoward contenders I dont know

[crystal hill]

fair enough

can't wait to play TNT2 in a year's time then

[mortal silo]

i think so. it was in development hell for over a decade. i beleive there is a lot to be studied from the set.
its got great layouts, combat, storytelling, and vistas. megawads that get made in phases-of-design-principles like this have more staying power.

[bitter shoal]

That would explain why I thought TNT2 was old, didn't realize it was never completed until now

[mortal silo]

i started playing doom 10 years ago, and got to play the TNT2 demo.
10 years later its finally complete 🙂

[bitter shoal]

is it the same team TNT as the original (sans the Casalis who went into the larger game industry)?

[crystal hill]

uh... no

[mortal silo]

no. spiritual sequel.

[bitter shoal]

lol thought so

okay so it is like Plutonia 2 then

[crystal hill]

its been over 20 years since TNT

Would be amazing if even one person returned for this

[mortal silo]

there may have been a music track or something from a former tnt dev

[calm lichen]

Anyone else having freezing/lag issues on Doom+Doom II?

I’m just tryna play it on PS5 and its struggling

Changed every setting I can and it still freezes for just a second

Like second long pauses, can’t find anything online either

[wintry copper]

yea the first level feels like something from the 2010-11 era

I love it so much that they have it start exactly where the first TNT left off

[bitter shoal]

@native anchor okay I played E4M6 that is definitely on the harder side. I never actually finished Episode 4 so I didn't realized it had this map.

[bitter shoal]

I think SIGIL 2 is sitll worse since the cacos on that one level in it were just pure tedium, the cacos here at least dangerous and attacked you from several angles

[torpid yacht]

I played yesterday n no issues

[median cloud]

Sigil is def harder than e4

[sharp wyvern]

I think Sigil II is my least favourite D1 episode probably

But Sigil might be in my top 2

[mellow matrix]

Sigil 2 plays an awful lot like survival horror which is not something I'm looking for at all in my DooM

[sharp wyvern]

i am looking for a bit of that in my doom

[bitter shoal]

I still need to play more RUST jaws of the earth, which unintentionally has a bit of horror vibe

it is apparently scythe and D!Zone inspired though

though it could be like Amalgoom where they just took a mundane mapping concept and injected some horror in it

[oak adder]

just beat chapter 2 of og doom on uv

pistol start no less

[bitter shoal]

nice

[oak adder]

now i gotta do chapter 3 & 4 on uv

I'm dreading chapter 4.

also playing og doom on uv makes me miss the super shotgun

[crystal hill]

It takes a lot to compensate for its absence

[solemn socket]

milestone reached!

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/617518946681225216/1446409469041840159/IMG_8640.png?ex=6933e14a&is=69328fca&hm=4215f771e8ce2bb1c07bc3c7e3437da6ae7d7cbac42224df14df8253649ddc1b&

[wintry copper]

🥳 🎊

just saw it was at 99999 before going to bed

[cold wadi]

man that's alot of posts

[fierce junco]

So did Plutonia experiment use the same soundtrack as Doom 1993? Cause I remember when I played the first level in Doom 1 + Doom 2, it has the same song as Doom 1993, but when I looked on yt I found some playlists with different music

[little oar]

It does. Plutonia Experiment uses songs from both DOOM and DOOM II
What you find on youtube are probably rips from a fanmade wad that aims to give Plutonia an original soundtrack (called the Plutonia MIDI Pack)

[fierce junco]

Ohh, ok yeah thats what alot of them were called, thanks

[drifting fiber]

finally finished E4M6 under par time from a UV pistol start lol

[bitter shoal]

I saw a run of it and learned about a plasma that would’ve made the map easier had I known about it

[drifting fiber]

I really wonder if the par times were picked based on playing the level with secrets or no secrets

Because I feel like some maps are really hard to do under par time without using secrets

[twin mortar]

I didn't have time to set all the par times for DOOM2 because there were so many levels and we only took 8 months to make DOOM2. I set all the par times for DOOM 1 by starting the level, running to the exit as fast as possible, rounding off the resulting time, then adding 30 seconds for padding. I actually got those levels done faster than the par times.
Source: Doomworld "5 years of Doom" interview with Romero

[bitter shoal]

Episode 4 maps didn't have par times, period, until the BFG edition meaning it is possible they weren't determiend using John Romero's methodology

[drifting fiber]

oh

that would make more sense honestly

[twin mortar]

I got outnerded dang

[bitter shoal]

and the par times are hard coded into the executable and not a lump in the wad file so Final DOOM map authors werne't able to set par times themselves

actually maybe not I just went through E4M1 and got a par time

and the IWAD I have is older than BFG edition

[woven swallow]

That's a custom midi pack, it's fanmade

[bitter shoal]

I require a sound font that sounds like this E1M1 acapella that is floating around on YT

[bitter shoal]

actually there might be one made already

lol there is, I'll have to try it out in a bit

[livid bear]

good morning everyone

[woven swallow]

good morning

[cold wadi]

good morning and happy doomin' holidays!

[torpid yacht]

Good morning

[crystal hill]

anyone played swift death before? it's a curious little wad

the maps are quite tough, but they're also ridiculously short, so it kind of balances out

[torpid yacht]

Im currently playing Tetanus

[crystal hill]

Never heard of it before. How is it?

[oak adder]

okay i completed the original chapters of doom on uv

while pistol starting

[crystal hill]

congrats

[mellow matrix]

Tetanus is cool. Relatively laid back combat and the Orange Box adjacent textures were nostalgic for me. There's a super cool underwater level.
I've skimmed through Swift Death but it's not my kind of wad. I respect it more than I enjoy it if that makes sense.

[twin mortar]

Tetanus is the last WAD we ever got for Unity and on release D+D2 didn't have it. Wish we'd get more featured mods for D+D2

[crystal hill]

featured mods are pointless because you can upload things very easily to the mod browser

[crystal hill]

sounds pretty fun. I have nostalgia for the Orange Box era valve games, so that'll be something to look forward to.
I would defend and praise Swift Death a little in this sentence if it didn't just make me rage more than I have in years, so yeah, I agree, fuck that wad

[twin mortar]

Idk I just think adding featured mods shows interaction with the community. There's also the fact Nintendo players only get featured mods

[crystal hill]

Thats a problem with the Nintendo version then

I dont see an inherent need for community interaction. This isn't a live service game, this is Doom

[twin mortar]

Okay man

[crystal hill]

Good argument

[twin mortar]

It wasn't meant to be one

Arguing over the fact I said I'd like more featured mods feels very old man yells at cloud

[crystal hill]

I was saying that they're pointless now, considering the mod browser

they existed in Unity because no such browser existed

[twin mortar]

And it'd be cool to give certain big mods the spotlight and make them available to the NS players but that's EVIL

[crystal hill]

I think it'd be cooler if the mod browser existed for NS because then they could play all the mods

instead of a curated few

[twin mortar]

That's not in Nightdive's control

[crystal hill]

yeah, give the big mods the spotlight. If anything that might damage community relations if only some got picked and not others

[crystal hill]

but making curated mods is?

[twin mortar]

Yes?

[twin mortar]

Nobody is gonna treat it that seriously my man

[crystal hill]

how?

[crystal hill]

I dont see what would be gained from it

instead of just letting NS players play all the mod browser mods

[twin mortar]

I really don't know what you expect me to say, they can choose which mods to feature but they can't add the mod browser to NS because Nintendo won't let them, it's against their policies

[crystal hill]

well, that's stupid. If there is no other way, then I guess adding more curated mods is the only option

but its not worth porting that to other systems where you can have the mod browser

[twin mortar]

With how shitty the mod browser selection has become, having a featured golden set of wads is good

[crystal hill]

I'd just fix the mod browser over that

better showcase all the mods, not just a selected few

I dont see a lot of community projects on the featured list, likely because Nightdive didn't get permission from all the people involved to stick them on

which is a shame. Stuff like AV, Plut 2 and CC4 can't get featured

[sharp wyvern]

Ok but they’re so people on versions that aren’t allowed mods can play mods, and so that new doom community members can have a look at some of the best wads on the browser

[crystal hill]

I agree, the people on Nintendo not having access to mods is silly, and so they probably need featured mods

you can (and people do) give likes to the best mods on the browser already

[sharp wyvern]

I don’t get why this is an issue for you

[crystal hill]

half of it isn't

the other half is doing the same thing as something else

[sharp wyvern]

A huge part of doom is the community what

[crystal hill]

care to read above that?

[sharp wyvern]

It doesn’t need to be some crazy live service game thing just having them pick a couple cool wads to show off is nice

[crystal hill]

Idk I just think adding featured mods shows interaction with the community

which led to me saying that

[sharp wyvern]

…what r u talking about duh

[crystal hill]

My point was that Doom as a game doesn't need the developers to interact with the community regularly

[sharp wyvern]

ok but it’s cool when they do…?

[crystal hill]

sure?

but do they need to?

[sharp wyvern]

and doom’s community is one of the biggest aspects of the franchise…?

[crystal hill]

you're twisting my point

[sharp wyvern]

did they need to do D + D2?

[crystal hill]

not at all

I'm not exactly a fan of remakes

this may be the best possible way to do one, but I still think its a little unnecessary

[sharp wyvern]

And yet it was cool and we got stuff we didn’t need but is very cool and appreciated

I don’t get why we got debate over Neat Stuff

[frail sail]

it's cool they added it and i'm glad they did but they didn't need to, i feel like is as simple as that

[crystal hill]

I felt like the featured mods thing being expanded was pointless, since the browser existed

tweak and add to the latter if you must rather than the former

but the existence of the NS version having no browser because Nintendo does give the featured mods a reason to exist

[mighty walrus]

I think the crossplay addition was a positive one

[frail sail]

i agree, it's such a nice addition

[torpid yacht]

Im playing it blind pistol start on UV
And its tough

[crystal hill]

good luck with that. Pistol start UV is my preferred way to play too

[crystal hill]

oh yeah. And making multiplayer more accessible generally

[torpid yacht]

The archvile, revenants, and chain gunners ambush are killing me like plutonia

[crystal hill]

Sounds good to me

[torpid yacht]

Inspiration or same people?

🤔

[crystal hill]

inspiration. The Casalis have long since moved on

[shadow briar]

anyone got advice for modded doom? I want to dabble in it but idk where to start (other than myhouse.wad i've seen way too many videos on that one lol)

...oh wait nvm i just realized there's a channel for this sort of thing, i'll just ask there

[woven swallow]

i can help
question, have you fully beaten the original doom games first?

another question is, what platform you are on? (PC or console)

[shadow briar]

i've fully beaten doom 1, havent fully beaten doom 2 but i get the gist (i got bored lol)

also on pc

[woven swallow]

windows? also playing it through on steam?

[shadow briar]

yep

[woven swallow]

https://youtu.be/vknv58-dHAE i recommend this video, not only how to run doom well but also a tutorial on custom maps and mods. just change the audio track to English in the settings. I highly recommend getting two different ports, Dsda doom (or other stuff like Woof, Nugget doom, Cherry doom, Nyan doom, etc, to emulate the origina doom game well but also adding a lot modern features and custom maps and mod support), for mods that are beyond doom like myhouse.wad, i recommend getting Uzdoom (not gzdoom)

[crystal hill]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOu6b83vmW4

this one here feels more simple and easy to follow imo

[cursive swallow]

UZDOOM is peak

[twin mortar]

I like me some Chocolate Doom

[crystal hill]

its pretty much indistinguishable from my old version of GZDoom, so I guess it's doing it's job

[crystal hill]

I love GZ/UZDoom but I very much respect that port like Chocolate or DSDA have their place

If you want the 100% pure vanilla experience, they're the way to go

[twin mortar]

I feel the same but about respecting GZ/UZ's place. I mostly play vanilla so the wacky mods aren't for me but the capabilities the ZDoom family provides for modding is impressive

[crystal hill]

I've been a GZ/UZDoom user for years now, mainly for things like the Golden Souls duology

I play those (and similar) wads so often, as well as use GZ/UZ exclusive features often enough that it doesnt make sense for me to switch to more "realistic" ports

and hell, I'm so used to them by now, that vanilla Doom feels weird now

[woven swallow]

Why use chocolate doom when you could use any other port that isn't zdoom based, just use the lowest resulation possible, cap your frames at 35, enable vertical mouse movemet, you now have chocolate doom premium

[twin mortar]

Why use Chocolate DOOM when I can use another source port and make it be just like Chocolate DOOM

That's a very interesting question, I really wonder why

Maybe because I just want Chocolate DOOM :p

[crystal hill]

feels weird whenever I hear Plutonia 2 music in other wads

Most of that music I associate with one specific level, so it feels "wrong" to see it used elsewhere

[covert talon]

Sounds tasty

@twin mortar sounds tasty

[cold wadi]

hah don't even need to use audio subs since youtube automatically autodubs entire video into english

[cold wadi]

agreed, there are many source ports each with a specific use case and pros and cons but I much prefer gz/uzdoom since that's where most of the mods are made since it generally has the most amount of features and the zscript language

[cold wadi]

omg I love golden souls 1 and 2, and I guess 3 is being made rn?

[crystal hill]

yessir

Anxiously awaiting that

[cold wadi]

same here

[bleak heart]

Btw do i need to complete every episode in each of the games to get the achiements or...? Can i skip them and still get them?

[twin mortar]

You can skip to the last level for each of them and still get the achievements

[crystal hill]

seriously?

that's hella cheap

[twin mortar]

Pretty sure you can even beat them with all kinds of cheats enabled and still get the achievements lol

[bleak heart]

Srsly???

[bleak heart]

Even god mode??

[twin mortar]

I did say all kinds of cheats

[bleak heart]

Okay

Btw i just beat e3m9...but then it put me back e3m7?

Why???

[twin mortar]

Because that's the level order

[bleak heart]

Oh...

Okay...well i got the end of e3m8 and then i got the end but no trophy...? Why is that?

Is it because i chested?

[twin mortar]

There's also episode 4

[bleak heart]

So when i do that then the achiement shoud pop? I though that was just bonus thing...

Also do you guys know why the game takes me to the previous stages after beating the final one in episode 4???

[bitter shoal]

E4M8?

[bleak heart]

E4M9

[crystal hill]

The last stage in an episode of Doom is EXM8

[bitter shoal]

E1M9, E2M9, E3M9, and E4M9 are all secret optional levels and they take you to the level after the one you entered the secret level in after you complete them

[bleak heart]

Ooooohhhh...

[crystal hill]

EXM9 is always a secret optional one

[bleak heart]

EXM9?

[crystal hill]

Replace X with the number of the episode you are on

E1M9, E2M9 etc

[bitter shoal]

secret levels in DOOM don't work like warp pipes in Mario, they do the opposite actually

[bleak heart]

Now i got it.

[minor trench]

Classic doom ma fav

[twin mortar]

Finished TNT for the first time
Had fun. Good time

[high mauve]

Is Final Doom part of that Doom+Doom II pack or is it just abandonware now?

[livid light]

all of final doom is in doom+doom ii plus some other expansions

[high mauve]

It doesn't mention it on steam

[livid light]

it does on the “owners recieve” section of the description

final doom is plutonia and tnt: evilution

[high mauve]

I see

Thanks

Wish more classic games got ported like Doom and not remade with ridiculous new graphics

[little oar]

Both parts are, as well as most of the old expansions DOOM ever got (pic showing them all)
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/879475905402109963/1436871603202818121/2280_20251108181415_1.png?ex=693769f5&is=69361875&hm=1679e36679197fff15fb0d1156a3df68afbaada19596420247880d22062d13d3&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1445&height=813

[little oar]

Well if you want more games of that era that got DOOM I + II like ports, Nightdive/Bethesda recently put out a collection for the Heretic/Hexen games
Nightdive is currently working on a proper port of Blood as well

[livid light]

nightdive also made strife veteran edition, which is very underrated imo

[sharp wyvern]

part of DOOM + DOOM II

alongside every classic expansion

as long as you don't count maximum doom

[little oar]

The next update should include every wad on maximum DOOM (that works)
Just don't tell Disney

[blazing kernel]

yo does sigil take place right after the events of doom 1?

[torpid yacht]

Yes, the 5th episode of Doom1

[little oar]

It's the unofficial official 5th episode so yes, it's considered such
But as far as canon goes it isn't relevant afaik

DOOM I ends with Thy Flesh Consumed canonically then it just moves to DOOM II

[blazing kernel]

ok thank you

[bitter shoal]

aaaand, SIGIL II is also the 5th episode

I'm coping with this facct

[sharp wyvern]

the 6th you mean

[sharp wyvern]

doesnt rly matter anyway cause just sigil on its own goes into doom ii too

and sigil ii will lead into hellion which leads into doom ii

so either way you end up back at doom ii just with a little detour

[solemn socket]

opinion on brutal doom?

[little oar]

It's definitely a doom mod. Mhm.
I think all the gore and whatever is way too overblown and just makes it look like some over the top "edgy" project of some teen who doesn't have a good way to vent his anger for being given math homework
(Basically, it's whatever. It's harmless but a bit too much in terms of what classic DOOM is. Nothing worth using outside screwing around with it for a few minutes)

Brutal DOOM comes off as the playable embodiment of what people who only played 2016+ think DOOM is supposed to be like

[finite crag]

Ok after playing tnt evolution for the last few weeks
I officially get the hate
Level 7 alone sucks really badly I can’t stand this level lol

[grave dune]

hi

[crystal hill]

People can use it if they want, but its not for me. I appreciate Doom's gameplay for what it is, and rarely see a need to drastically change it

[oak adder]

hey guys

I beat doom 1 on uv

chapter 4 I used save states because I dont like it.

[cold wadi]

it's cool but I prefer brutal pack v10

[light trellis]

No

[solemn socket]

fair enough

considering people who say brutal doom is good mightve never touched vanilla

[crystal hill]

There's nothing wrong with just playing Brutal Doom exclusively. To each their own, etc etc

I would recommend those guys give vanilla a try, still

[pearl bay]

Some people get strangely offended by brutal doom. I had plenty of fun with it, still prefer og, but it's good for what it's trying to do

[twin mortar]

Offended as in repulsed or straight up insulted by it

[uneven otter]

Yeah I Don’t hate tnt evilution as much as other people but there are some real STINKERS in there

Especially with the boring fodder spam

The music is kinda good tho

[finite crag]

That’s honestly the best part about it
I mean the first few levels was fun and in my opinion well made
But some of these levels after 3 are ass super huge rooms with hit scanners like super cheap annoying fights

I dunno it’s not difficult just die a lot to some bs which gets old after 3 hours of constant bs after bs
I liked no rest for the living because even though it was difficult it always felt like my fault, or I could have done something better.

[uneven otter]

Exactly, nrftl and plutonia have bs, but that bs is something you can reasonably manage

[sharp wyvern]

nrftl is less bs than doom 2 tbh

[uneven otter]

Case in point, The chasm

[uneven otter]

Also the big room with the Hitscanners in MAP08 makes my blood boil

[twin mortar]

They are part of one game though so I don't think that's insane

People won't seperate the DOOM 1 episodes in tier lists even if they have varying quality

[sharp wyvern]

although plutonia and tnt are like as long as 3 doom 1 episodes each

[calm lichen]

They are both 2 halves of Final Doom

I have ratings for them as individual wads but they mostly get rated as Final Doom

And TNT sucks so it ends up bringing FD down hard

[uneven otter]

What I meant with the Final doom stuff is that I don’t think plutonia with should be dragged down with Tnt because Tnt is bad.

Also they are seperate Campaigns with seperate stories

[twin mortar]

Yea but what we meant is that they're part of one game so them being lumped in together is understandable

[uneven otter]

good point

[twin mortar]

Closer to four actually so yeah they are beefy

[oak adder]

hey guys

still trying to finish doom 2 on uv

on the level downtown

its a pain

[crystal hill]

yeah. Real confusing your first few times through

[crystal hill]

Would anyone know how to get Ultimate Doom Builder working on Linux? I have a version that seems hell bent on crashing immediately.

[finite crag]

That’s the map I finally got too lol and yeah I’m stuck on this one too lol

I feel like such a noob lol people pistol start these maps and here I am struggling with a full arsenal pretty much
But the super shotgun is just my go too for a lot of these maps not much of ammo for anything else other than the chain gun

[bitter shoal]

From what it seemed like watching Dario play TNT, it isn't a mapset you want to pistol start because so many maps are designed with the assumption they would be picked as early maps and mostly have shotgun and chaingun gameplay

[halcyon willow]

You need to use Wine

Or at least, that's the most common method

[median trellis]

the chasm is goated

[desert tinsel]

All are welcome to come play Monday Night Horde on Odamex

[wicked iron]

should we get a remaster of doom 64 (similar to how doom 2016 is a "remaster" of DOOM 1993 and Doom Eternal is a "remaster" of DOOM II)

[bitter shoal]

neither of those are remasters

they aren't even really remakes either

[wicked iron]

doom eternal is literally Hell On Earth

[bitter shoal]

I know, but it isn't like a 1:1 remake

[wicked iron]

oh yeah

its not 1:1

but its pretty close

and keeps the same idea

[thick glade]

i dont think i can speak considering how im not a big fan of 64 but i kinda wouldnt like that idea either way

[bitter shoal]

mabye they'll introduce the mother demon but it probably wouldn't follow DOOM 64's exact structure either

[thick glade]

“remake” or adaptation

[wicked iron]

adaptation.

sorry, im bad with word choice

[thick glade]

all good

[wicked iron]

probably me being neurodivergent :P

[thick glade]

no worries

[crystal hill]

They're both incredibly different

[crystal hill]

Its for sure the easiest, but isnt always the most stable

[uneven otter]

What maps have you made?

[crystal hill]

None. Barring test maps

[uneven otter]

ok

[median cloud]

I agree

Also pretty tough to pistol start

[finite crag]

I’ve noticed that after level ten they get super easy with a full arsenal I’m breezing through em
So yeah you’re probably right

Because once I got the gist of how tnt traps etc work they don’t really get me anymore I just know

[median cloud]

Are cacowards tomorrow evening?

[crystal hill]

tomorrow at some point

[mortal silo]

Actually, tonight at midnight is not unlikely

[crystal hill]

Well, tommorow for me, Im european

[thick glade]

playing sigil and yelling “JOHNNN” whenever im slightly inconvenienced

[cold wadi]

looks like the thread is filled with some pretty good suggestions, my vote is probably the rual only wad or neon overdrive

[finite crag]

So what version does everyone usually play?

[woven ferry]

howdy 🙂

Does anyone know how to get local multiplayer to work in doom 1 enhanced or doom 2 enhanced?

[finite crag]

Wdym

Isn’t local split screen?

[woven ferry]

Oooh. Maybe that's it

[finite crag]

Yeah if you want split screen you do local
If you want online hit online then join match or create match

[oak adder]

almost doom 2 on uv

btw i was not pistol starting it

mainly because I hate about 80% of the maps

[twin mortar]

In these versions I found that every player needs to use a controller for it to work. Maybe that's the issue?

[oak adder]

im making a top 5 least favorite maps for doom 2 when im done

stuff like "the chasm" and "refueling base" is definitely gonna be on that list

[crystal hill]

I get the hate for the chasm, but why refueling base?

[oak adder]

mainly because of the high monster count and not having the ammo to deal with them

[twin mortar]

Chasm is fun after watching Karl's video on it and having the fastest route memorized

[mighty walrus]

I love Refueling Base bc of the challenge

[oak adder]

theres like 200+ monsters in that level alone

[crystal hill]

Refuelling base gives you plenty of ammo because a lot of the monsters are hitscanners

one shotgunner is 2 shots of the SSG on his own

[mighty walrus]

monsters

Yeah if you use certain weapons on certain demons then it's not as hard

[oak adder]

or i could put "catacombs" for having awful hitscan placement

[crystal hill]

I hate the citadel, I think it's called, for being massive and easy to get lost in

the cramped layout and needing to backtrack to the teleporter room doesnt help

[oak adder]

also btw i dont this is intentional but I managed to slip right through the blue torches and get to the teleporters

or maybe "barrels o' fun" because of the pain elementals and a arch-vile that you need to dodge otherwise get cooked

[pearl bay]

The cidatel is awesome. Though I also love 64, so it makes sense that would be right up my alley

[twin mortar]

Barrels isn't that bad

[pearl bay]

I get why you'd hate it though

[oak adder]

but the list will be dropping here soon

[crystal hill]

I think so?

without a port where you can jump/walk on the torches, I think you need to slip past like that. But its been a while

[crystal hill]

by that same logic, I dont like 64, so that might be why I dont like it

[solemn socket]

i tried out doom retro, it felt like a sourceport that freedoom was meant to be played with

[crystal hill]

the architecture isn't enough to make up for the pain

[oak adder]

citadel took me like 30+ minutes to beat

the level is just not all that great because of its layout

[pearl bay]

I also don't really like barrels, mainly because of the barrel room full of lost souls

The gimmick is cool but I just find the level annoying

[crystal hill]

barrels are really fun, expect when they're in my face

you can do a barrels of fun type level thats actually fun. I know at least a few community made levels that use them well

Map 1 of Auger Zenith especially loves its barrels

[oak adder]

lost souls and pain elementals are a real pain

especially pain elementals

saying that you have to use a chaingun or plasma gun would be an understatement

I just dont like doom 2 as much

most of the maps are confusing, unfair, and restart heavy for me to have a good time with it

I do like the super shotgun and the ost though.

[solemn socket]

CW25 released.
https://www.doomworld.com/cacowards/2025/index/

[crystal hill]

so many wads in there, jeez

[solemn socket]

i was expecting belot though

[oak adder]

but doom 2 does have decent maps

too bad its only a few

[solemn socket]

except when it gets repetitive

[crystal hill]

Thats what custom wads are for

[bitter shoal]

holy cow Profane Promisedland got UV-Maxed

[grave idol]

hello ppl

somebody alive?

[bold palm]

yh

[frank drum]

🙁

[woven swallow]

https://youtu.be/23OIutIqdR0?si=obtIy9BP6ZAAdlqH

[median cloud]

Damn no way

[bitter shoal]

Gonna watch it later today (this ff6 stat maxing playthrough was really easy to fall asleep to)

[woven ferry]

My son and I kept wondering how to join the game on the other pc. I'll try adding a link to the exe in steam. Then playing with 2 controllers on the steam link

[junior gate]

happy birthday doomguy

[bitter shoal]

I'm only a few minutes in watching this Profaned Promisedland UV Max and already the skill expression is on point

they spent like a minute 30 seconds not touching this mega and dodging revenant fireballs

[drifting fiber]

happy birthday Doom! :D

[wintry copper]

Happy Birthday Doom!

made quite a bit of headway in Memento Mori II to celebrate, MAP22 was a lot of pain but maps 23 to 25 were good fun

[bitter shoal]

Seeing profane promised land UV-Maxed is a pretty monumental achievement so it works that it lined up with DOOM's birthday almost

[oak adder]

alright i did it

I beat doom + doom 2 on uv

time for a top five worst doom 2 maps (things are subject to change)

#5 - "Citadel"
#4 - "The Catacombs"
#3 - "Downtown"
#2 - "Barrels O' Fun"
#1 - "The Chasm"

[halcyon willow]

Wrong
Understandable
Objectively Correct
Giga Wrong
The Other City Maps Are Still Worse Than Chasm

[bitter shoal]

I love this run, the cheese in some sections (mostly the later 1/3rd of the map) doesn't relaly take away how good Ancalagon seems to be at being aware of their space while moving and able to use the BFG optimally

and knowing when to pick up health

[bitter shoal]

and of course that fight had no cheese

[woven ferry]

Niiice!

[north kernel]

lowkey wish there was a channel- or a server- for doom 64 and PS1 doom- i like those two a lot .3.

[sharp wyvern]

This is the channel for D64

It used to have its own channel but they merged the two without archiving D64 for who knows what reason

[north kernel]

huh... weird

probably for convenience, im not gonna argue with the head honchos of Bethesda and ID Software, haha

[mighty walrus]

@north kernel They didn't create the channels. It's because it is considered part of Classic Doom and there wouldn't be enough interest in it alone to have its own channel. So it works just fine being integrated into here.

[sharp wyvern]

They should merge 2016-TDA into #modern-doom :3

[mighty walrus]

nah

That'd be a lot and none of those games even function similarly

Plus with DLC's and other add-ons and stuff...nah. Too much, too difficult.

I don't even have the time or energy to explain the ways that wouldn't be a good idea lol

[bitter shoal]

they should merge me with helios

[red dune]

Chasm is considered a city map?

[bitter shoal]

it is a Hell map

[uneven tangle]

Have yall ever thought about if the intermission screens are Davoth speaking to Doomguy

Idk just been thinking

[crystal hill]

Probably not

[red dune]

Yeah. Someone above said something about it being a city map, so I was confused

Or it was just said in a weird way

[bitter shoal]

it was said in a weird way, I think they just meant the remaining city levels besides the one(s) already listed are also worse than Chasm

[oak adder]

i could change the list but this is how it is now.

i think i just dont like doom 2 as much as the other ones.

like i think 80% of the maps i dont like

okay there are some maps that are good

like the inmost dens

and basic the first couple maps

[crystal hill]

man's fighting a shadow and losing

[halcyon willow]

I was being cheeky, you're allowed to have your own opinion 👅

[oak adder]

okay

[halcyon willow]

Inmost Dens is a banger though

[red dune]

I’ve always personally liked the chasm tbh

[halcyon willow]

Your enjoyment of The Chasm is pretty much set by how much you enjoy platforming

[bitter shoal]

Chasm has good parts to the map, some are unfortunately optional though

I think my only real problem I had with Chasm was not recognizing a crucial teleporter since it was marked by a hanging corpse and not a teleport panel

[hard oak]

I coded on a random ahh device with help of chatgpt the game doom 1993 but when it tryed to load the map it instantly dies

And plus it was 3d

[bitter shoal]

hi Graf Zhal 👋

[hard oak]

What chatgot said

[uneven tangle]

I mean it’s ChatGPT what’d you expect

[hard oak]

Idk, how to code on a ahh devices that was supposed to be for students in school to learn simple coding

[uneven tangle]

Well ChatGPT is gonna help you learn anything

[hard oak]

The gpu was weak

[hard oak]

Ik

[crystal hill]

I dunno what you expect us to do about this

[halcyon willow]

Ass

The word is ass

Also fuck chatgpt

[bitter shoal]

I'm starting to think E4M6 is kind of secretly legendary I played it alone the other day when someone else was talking about it and now YouTube recommended me PJ Plays DOOM doing the first no damage run of it

[bitter shoal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNJgwS4tNOo

this video was kind of amazing. E4M6 might be one of the most under the radar complex maps because a lot of it is hidden

[halcyon willow]

Secretly? It's one of the best Doom 1 maps ever made

[feral temple]

Doomwiki is dead?

[solemn socket]

i think they mentioned about switching to a new host

[sharp wyvern]

they're moving service providers arent they

[crystal hill]

Yeah, it was mentioned in the cacowards

I had issues with it on the 10th and 11th, but its mostly back to normal now. Could edit it like normal

[feral temple]

OK, thank you all

[calm lichen]

Just finished knee deep in the dead on mouse only

Playing with vertical mouse movement is rough

I’m used to having A and D be assigned to left and right strafe respectively meaning holding a button to strafe has become alien to me

And doing that on mouse is even more alien

[woven swallow]

i actually tried to do that, because my mouse has multiple buttons on the side

[twin mortar]

You can do it with the default controls actually! Everything you need is mapped to the mouse in the original executable

I tried this myself too once and it was interesting

[calm lichen]

Yep. I am using Crispy Doom which has vert mouse options

[hushed otter]

classic doom 4e!

[twin mortar]

Finished playing through Plutonia, and as a result Final DOOM, and also as a result all of the (major) DOOM games
Had fun

[bitter shoal]

Plutonia is great, evil DM mindset and chaingunner meme and all

[crystal hill]

Plutonia gets my pulse racing like no other official Doom wads I've played. Absolute classic

[bitter shoal]

Chaingunners are just such a fast and efficient way to create player engagement, totally understandable why they were a favorite enemy when they were on a time window

[crystal hill]

they also contribute to chainguns being common, which is nice to see

[bitter shoal]

actually one thing I will criticize is that a lot of chaingunners are placed where you can't pick up their drops (like on Speed) but it isn't the end of the world

[crystal hill]

most important is that first chaingunner

all you need is that one chaingun and you're golden. The next chaingunners are just a lil extra ammo

[red dune]

Plutonia used to be my favorite official released og doom wad but I think legacy of rust is my new favorite

[crystal hill]

I have yet to properly play it, though I've heard good things

[sharp wyvern]

Did you play Go 2 It

[bitter shoal]

I have no access to LoR, but Plutonia was still the pinnacle of DOOM official IWADs at the time of release so it does deserve some credit still

[crystal hill]

it holds up well even today. Judging it by 90s standards, its a slam dunk

[bitter shoal]

if I ever do play LoR I'll probably be comparing it more to toher new stuff rather than content made like 30 years before

[sharp wyvern]

Admittedly half of why I like LoR so much is because Oooo Flashy New Stuff but it is also just downright good

[glass helm]

I have yet to hop back into the Classic Doom games

[bold palm]

i have

[twin mortar]

No I had no luck finding the secret levels

I somehow stumbled upon both of them in Return to Danger

[bitter shoal]

Can just IDCLEV (or whatever level select feature you have) to them. I acctually did the secret maps before the rest of Plutonia when I played it because I didn't want to have a jarring spike in fun craziness between more tame levels like what happened with Amalgoom (in retrospect though Plutonia is better set up that if you could beat Map 15 which the secret exit was right beside the actual exit, you could do Map 32)

[sharp wyvern]

Can’t you just@level select

[bitter shoal]

That is what I mean by "whatever level select feature you have"

[sharp wyvern]

TBH bro I’m sloshed I just straight up didn’t read half of that

[bitter shoal]

IDCLEV is just my default verb for it but I know it is probably some menu option in DOOM 1 & 2 and you can use the console "changemap" command for ZDOOM based ports. Or for whatever reason you want to use the -warp command line modifier... or if you have a launcher that lets you set the level

[twin mortar]

Oh I know I can level select don't worry lol, I just like finding them legitimately beforehand. That's gonna have to wait though because I have 5 campaigns to go through next

[crystal hill]

Go 2 It really is worth playing

[bitter shoal]

yeah you can just knock it out real quick. Cyberden (Map 31) is skippable

[sharp wyvern]

cyberden is also fun

not like as essential as go 2 it but it's neat i like it

[crystal hill]

I like it too, as I do the rest of Plut 1

I'd suggest he play both, but G2I is more essential

[tough thorn]

https://ratsplaydoom.com/

[solemn socket]

wtf rats can do that

[torpid yacht]

Im halfway through Alien Vendetta on UV pistol start
Nothing crazy so far.

[bitter shoal]

Someone awhile back kept crashing out at this wad >.>

in like the early maps too

[desert tinsel]

Playing Christmas Co-op on Odamex. All are welcome odamex.net

[mortal silo]

It was my first pwad. I recall giving up in the early 2Xs.

[oak adder]

hey guys

been playing a doom mod

and its basically a doom 2016 overhaul and its hard

[short idol]

Doom 2016 in the original 1993 engine?

[uneven tangle]

Are you insane

[short idol]

no

or is it a pk3??

never cared to look for something like that

I know some mods that you drag the *.ZIP onto GZDoom but that is not the original engine

[oak adder]

visually yeah

even with new maps

the mod aint half bad just wish it wasnt so difficult

[short idol]

so it is just a mod for Doom 2016 that gets the old graphics? or the other way around + maps?

[oak adder]

doom 2 mod with 2016 visual and map changes

[short idol]

ah

[solemn socket]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1267965555063783489/1449708327691878493/image.png?ex=693fe197&is=693e9017&hm=06d5d0fde6d8b51e17090c2086dab5a0f06fafb9c2ee60bb8c2872bb6501538c&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

i fucked uuuuupppp

[mystic fiber]

Anyone wanna play and vc ik new to doom

[livid light]

how did you get -2 bullets 😭

[torpid yacht]

There is an annoying cyber were I died multiple times but it was at the beginning of the level

[torpid yacht]

The pyramid level was insane!
56 minutes in one level? And was so confusing at the end 🙄

Thats how long it took me 💀

[median trellis]

that map is rough on a blind playthrough

[crystal hill]

Misri Halek is a lil overrated. The beginning is very rough, the two cybers in the middle are also rude. But its a very awe inspiring map that generally plays wel

[median trellis]

I wonder how long it took to make given the editors at the time

[crystal hill]

I think Malde mentions it taking a good long while for him

[median trellis]

he was very talented

[crystal hill]

Oh yes. Making those levels in 2002 is very impressive

[median trellis]

epic 2's misri halek replica is also great

[crystal hill]

Which map was that?

Moat of Epic 2 is Egyptian/Pyramid themed

[median trellis]

31

it's not as fun as misri halek but it has much more texture variety

[median cloud]

Misri Halek has a great tune as well

iirc he made map 10 of AV as well

which is a phenomenal map as well

[median trellis]

he made maps 9 and 23 as well

AV map 10 easily has the most fitting song in a map I've ever seen

that and sunder map 31

[crystal hill]

No, it got me to ragequit the first time I played. Its quite ammo stingy at the start

[crystal hill]

From what I know, Malde regularly worked with other people on his maps

He designed the map itself, and people like Anders Johnsen put in monsters

[median cloud]

True

[median cloud]

Truth nuke!!!

I remember playing sunder map 31 and having that exact same feeling. Loved that map

Fits better than the Mucus Flow

[molten widget]

hi there. newbie to doom games here. was playing doom 2 on the doom + doom 2 2024 version. difficulty : hurt me plenty. reached map05 (waste tunnels). i have an issue, is it just me or the game is really dark'ish to the point nothing is visible (at certain areas), have played doom 1 but didnt see such an issue in that.

[earnest flame]

https://youtu.be/cGFIKXiz1EA

[desert tinsel]

Odamex Monday Night Survival Horde is starting if anyone wants to join in. odamex.net

[median trellis]

yep

[oak adder]

some levels are like that

[main ibex]

any civvie11 fans in chat

[oak adder]

yes

I like his pro doom videos

[main ibex]

true

he's the reason I'm playing duke nukem 3d as well

really anything that guy makes is awesome

[torpid yacht]

You can turn up the brightness in settings a little bit but some areas are meant to be dark

[mighty walrus]

Underhalls has entered the chat

[torpid yacht]

Just finished Alien Vendetta Map 25 and its more insane than the pyramid one! So far map 25 is my favorite

[main ibex]

does anyone here know zscript I've been trying to get an answer to one of my questions for hours

[molten widget]

I see

[molten widget]

Right. Thanks.

[median cloud]

Thats a pretty tough map, no?

[crystal hill]

that's demonic hordes. It's not as bad as it looks at first, but it's still really tough

[median cloud]

I know I beat map 26 pistol start once but I think I skipped 25

[crystal hill]

you can teleport out of the first big fight and let the cyberdemon kill everything in there

I skipped map 25 my first time playing AV as well, but on a replay, it's really grown on me

[median cloud]

I should play these things again honestly. I'm a pretty big doom fan and AV feels like a true classic to beat

I think I skipped 25, 27, 29 but beat the rest

[crystal hill]

it's the best wad of it's time if you ask me

leagues above all the other classics

[median cloud]

I agree. I just never finished wads with too much difficulty

Well I did but I get burnt out after a while rather

[crystal hill]

depends on if the pain is worth it, I suppose

[median cloud]

Usually I can grind to finish a hard map but then lose passion to continue further

[crystal hill]

I'll more readily beat a really tough, but fair level than one I can reasonably beat, but it requires crazy luck

[median cloud]

I remember being stuck for a while on Eviternity 2 map 26 and after finishing it finally I just dropped Evi 2 completely

[crystal hill]

is that a hard wad, or was it just that map?

[median cloud]

It's a wad I'd liken to Alien Vendetta in difficulty

This was imo a pretty tough map yeah, took me a couple of tries to beat it saveless

It's a bit of a gimmick map where it requires you to do challenges like two shotting multiple cyberdemons in a row

and then it ends in a huge final fight, though that one isn't too bad

I mostly died at one of the challenges

[crystal hill]

oh, joy

[bitter shoal]

oh I remember the map you mean

when I watched Vytaan do his single segment

and had to do the ultimate clutch of needing to punch one

[torpid yacht]

Mmm kinda difficult
Im playing pistol start UV but im saving before entering a new area or pressing a switch xD
The fights are fun

[median cloud]

Alrighttt I went on to beat AV map 25 UV-max pistol start as well

Took me 51 minutes to beat and 3 tries because the starting area fucked me over when returning to it

Had my heart pumping near the end though what a gauntlet

Was done in chocolate doom as well so I had this annoying visual bug that caused monsters to dissappear from my screen at times

[crystal hill]

there's not much like it from that era

it feels a lot more intense and unconquerable than it is because of the enemy count and the music

but there's a surprising amount of health and invulns in there

[median cloud]

Yeah the map itself isn't that hard

Its more about not losing my cool and dying to a stray cyber rocket

[torpid yacht]

I didnt even check how long it took me I was impressed with the overall map, very fun
Only one map had me sweating n is on Btsx

[crystal hill]

Map 29 of Plut 2 was a ballbuster to clear back in the day

I didn't finish it on a replay because I didn't have time to, and because I was happy enough with having beaten it in the past

I was shouting in triumph when I finally got to the end of it

[torpid yacht]

Im starting tnt revilution
After Alien vendetta

[crystal hill]

that one's a lot easier

[torpid yacht]

Nvm it took me 1h15min. To beat av map 25

I just checked xD

[crystal hill]

yeaaaaah

it's a gauntlet

[median cloud]

I like TNT revilution more as a mappack tho

[crystal hill]

Alien Vendetta is a top 10, maybe 15 wad for me

still holds up in the modern day

[oak adder]

I feel like evilution is easier than plutonia

but personally I haven't played final doom

[crystal hill]

as someone who has played final doom, plutonia is harder

that's a pretty universal opinion

[exotic ledge]

I need a new wad to play

Just finished Plutonia Revisited

any suggestions?

[umbral shale]

Doom zero

Trust

[crystal hill]

community chest 4

[exotic ledge]

Thx, will try both of them

Zero first, as Samir got in there first 🙂

[umbral shale]

You're gonna love doom zero

[red dune]

Yes. Underrated wad

[crystal hill]

I dunno, it has a lot of fans on here. I hear about it fairly often

[bitter shoal]

Amalgoom has an O of Destruction map for obvious reasons but I just realized the Final DOOM version of Amalgoom will have one as well

[torpid yacht]

Map 26 n 27 took me 2h40 min.
Done with AV for the day 💀

[median trellis]

I just died like an hour into a mucus flow pistol start with no saves

so brutal

[median cloud]

AV26 isn't that long iirc, AV27 can't comment on that tho

How do they compare to AV25? I beat AV26 in the distant past but cant remember if I beat AV27

[median cloud]

I personally couldn't get into it, just didn't like the aesthetic

[crystal hill]

I'll give it a try at some point

[crystal hill]

both are long, but for my money neither compare with demonic hordes

[median cloud]

I will give av27 a shot soon as well

[woven swallow]

10x10

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/The_10x10_Project

[exotic ledge]

thx , I'll check that out

Is there any way to disable the gameplay modifications to Doom Zero? I'm not enjoying the single fire chaingun, or the custom sounds for some enemies

[woven swallow]

no

[crystal hill]

You cant really turn things like that off in wads, generally

[torpid yacht]

Map 26 1h30min. With saves, 53min. In game time

[median cloud]

26 took longer than 27?

Which one did u find the hardest?

[umbral shale]

I did, it's like NRFTL, but with more pale colors. I really like the ones that feel like expansions

[umbral shale]

Single fire? I never had that before

[torpid yacht]

I think 26

[wintry copper]

and I've finally finished Memento Mori II

god those last levels were insane ballbusters but I loved it all the way through, though there were some maps I didn't like so much and the quality did feel a bit closer to MM1-tier in the later half

[torpid yacht]

Ok, juat finished AV with all secret levels

6/10 wad for me.

[sweet patio]

Finally finished all the Doom + Doom 2

[bitter shoal]

Chibi Jane avi :o and grats!

[sweet patio]

I finally closed the gestalt

i played doom in my childhood

in 1998+ years, but didn't complete it at all

[bold lodge]

I recently finished Thy Flesh Consumed on Ultra-Violence (Hell beneath and perfect hatred are the worst bro 😭)

[median cloud]

Damn thats low

AV is a classic

[crystal hill]

6/10 is low right now, let alone for the time

its not perfect, but there's a lot of good stuff in there

[median trellis]

I gave up on the mucus flow no saves, it's unbearable from a pistol start

[crystal hill]

I don't blame you. There's a lot of BS in there

[median trellis]

too much shit has to go right

[median trellis]

I played scythe x for the first time just now to cool down after that and really enjoyed it

[sweet patio]

i played most of levels on ultra nightmare , except for couple of campaigns , because they're really pain in sss

and yes, legacy of rust is cool , BUT latest map is ridiculous

[crystal hill]

what do you mean, ultra nightmare? classic doom doesnt have that

[sweet patio]

oh, wait

yeah, ultra violence

anyways, i've earned all the achievements in D + D2 :3

And yes, Master Levels and TNT are the worst

[bitter shoal]

Thy Flesh consumed was E4 right

[crystal hill]

yes

I really don't like the Master Levels. They aren't hard, so much as tedious

[sweet patio]

yeah

[bitter shoal]

yeah Thy Flesh Consumed is like one really hard opening, a banger hard level, then some easy stuff then another banger hard level and I hadn't played past that

[sweet patio]

master levels are not that hard, But level design... i wanted to say "hello" to devs , because sometimes it's easier to find all the secrets on the level ,than find an exit

[crystal hill]

I still have flashbacks to titan manor

[bitter shoal]

I hadn't played Master Levels but I've been thinking about how TNT map 4 might be one of the saddest maps of all time

[sweet patio]

💀💀💀 KILL ME

[crystal hill]

how?

[sweet patio]

D + D2?

Because numeration in d + d2 is different from original

[crystal hill]

its one of the better ones in the set

[sweet patio]

anyways

i liked plutonia, and all the new maps

but, i expected more from that popular Romero in Sigil 1 + 2

[crystal hill]

its my favourite classic doom game (plutonia)

[bitter shoal]

That is part of why it is so sad though, because they open up the exit early so that you can miss out on its thematic gimmick.

[crystal hill]

okay?

[sweet patio]

Like seriously

Sigil + Sigil 2 = just ...well, okay

nothing incredible, just okay maps

[crystal hill]

Sigil 1 is actually my favourite Doom 1 wad, but it still doesn't compare to a lot of Doom 2 stuff

[sweet patio]

THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE A SUPER SHOTGUN

[crystal hill]

I gave up on Sigil 2 on level 1, lol

[bitter shoal]

SIGIL is legit great, SIGIL 2 is like Mario 2 as in the Famicom Disk System sequel

[crystal hill]

you can work around that

it's hard, and most mappers do not, but you can work around that

[bitter shoal]

SIGIL 2 definitely starves you of rocket ammo IMO

[sweet patio]

i mean yeah, i completed all the D + D2 maps

[crystal hill]

great to hear

I'm gonna have a lot of "fun" when I get around to it later

[sweet patio]

but still

i expected more from popularity of Romero

[woven swallow]

sweet, now play custom maps!

[crystal hill]

he's a lil overrated, yeah

[sweet patio]

that's what i'm talking about

maps were kinda mid, why he's that popular i dunno

[crystal hill]

he made most of episode 1

which is the most played part of classic doom

[sweet patio]

rly?

[crystal hill]

yeah

[sweet patio]

i didn't know that

[bitter shoal]

He definitely isn't overrated just from the fact that his reputation was skewered because of Daikatana, proof that he isn't an infallible designer. I thoguht SIGIL had great environmental design though it is just that Romero tends to have a problem with using bulky enemies but wanting you to use weaker weapons on them.

[sweet patio]

well, then i understand

[crystal hill]

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/John_Romero

Doom/Ultimate Doom

E1M1: Hangar
E1M2: Nuclear Plant
E1M3: Toxin Refinery
E1M4: Command Control (with Tom Hall and Sandy Petersen)
E1M5: Phobos Lab
E1M6: Central Processing
E1M7: Computer Station
E1M9: Military Base
E4M2: Perfect Hatred
E4M6: Against Thee Wickedly

Doom II

MAP11: Circle of Death
MAP15: Industrial Zone
MAP17: Tenements
MAP20: Gotcha!
MAP26: The Abandoned Mines
MAP29: The Living End

[woven swallow]

because he's the creator of doom...

[crystal hill]

not the sole creator

[sweet patio]

well, i love E1 of Doom

[bitter shoal]

His maps are a cut above the other iD authors for the most part though, especially when you have Sandy reworking a lot of Tom Hall maps and whatnot.

[crystal hill]

I can't say I like most of his Doom 2 creations

[main ibex]

holy shit its

[crystal hill]

Circle of Death isn't awful, and Abandoned Mines is neat

[sweet patio]

i still remember my childhood disappointment after how short was D1 Shareware version in 1998

[main ibex]

does it actually look like a mineshaft

[crystal hill]

havent you played the game?

[sweet patio]

but yes, i played DOOM from my childhood

[main ibex]

I haven't played the entirety of doom 2 unfortunately

played through to about halfway and only got that far by exploiting gzdoom's ability to jump

[crystal hill]

it looks a little like a mine. But because the tools weren't great at the time, it was hard to make things look particularly realistic

[sweet patio]

I'm actually absolutely not against of every original D1 and D2 maps, but after, there are some questionable maps, and TNT and Master levels is just peak trash.

[crystal hill]

playing copious amounts of custom maps has really made me sour on the original games

[bitter shoal]

Romero was really good at crafting environments so he did pull off a caverns zone for Abandoned Mine but he didn't attempt to create a convincing actual mine, it was mostly using metal, grate, and techy parts as a secondary theme to the level.

[bitter shoal]

I hope this never happens to me

[crystal hill]

What can I say? I've just played a ton of better stuff

[bitter shoal]

I never want new stuff I like to make me bitter about stuff I liked before and I have no reason to stop liking.

[crystal hill]

I've also played entirely too many "well regarded" Doom E1 knock offs

[sweet patio]

what about Legacy of rust?

[crystal hill]

havent played that one yet

[sweet patio]

it's good enough

[crystal hill]

I'm not bitter about either D1 or D2 though. I also have reasons to not like them as much (still like them)

[sweet patio]

BTW, theres also i hate about DOOM

YOU NEVER KNOW WHERE'S DANGER WATER AND WHERE'S NOT

[crystal hill]

very annoying inconsistency

[bitter shoal]

that is more of a map designer fault than anything, Plutonia is notorious for it

[sweet patio]

exactly

[crystal hill]

still a valid problem

[sweet patio]

doom 1 told us that every water is danger

[crystal hill]

not inherently with the game, but how designers use elements of it

[sweet patio]

doom 2 , told us: welp not always

other games : not always, sometimes it hits you, sometimes not, and good luck

lol

[crystal hill]

especially bad if you're pistol starting, and need every last drop of health and armour to make it

[main ibex]

I only use water for swimmable shit

3d floors are so cool

[crystal hill]

thats a gzdoom only thing, isnt it?

[main ibex]

yeah but it's still cool

udmf or bust 🗣️

[crystal hill]

to each their own

swimming in basic doom feels cursed to me

[main ibex]

I take it you don't like the ability to jump or crouch either

[crystal hill]

the former especially breaks levels wide open

unless you build them with jumping in mind

[main ibex]

ok that's true and I know from experience

[main ibex]

I typically do

you can also just do NoJump (or whatever it is) in mapinfo

same way myhouse did it

[crystal hill]

a map that needs jumping wont really be playable in anything but GZDoom

[main ibex]

and that's fine

[crystal hill]

if you make the jumping an integral part of the map, sure

but putting in some ledges you need to jump over for the sake of it feels like a waste

[fierce junco]

After listening to Andrew Hulshult's version of the classic doom music, Im 100% doing a run of Doom 1 and Doom 2 with the remixed soundtrack lol its so good

[crystal hill]

his music is great, but some of the tracks dont mesh well with the more atmospheric levels

[fierce junco]

Yeah, I can see that now that I think about it, I still wanna try it tho just to experience it

[native anchor]

If the Cyberdemon in Doom 2016 is a different species than Classic Cyberdemons/Tyrants, would the same logic apply to the Spider Mastermind?

[twin mortar]

@nova dawn

If anyone knows it's this guy

[nova dawn]

There is no confirmed connection between the Spiderdemons of the classic games and the Spider Mastermind in 2016. Spiderdemons are just an elite demon - the Mastermind was the physical form of the Aranea Imperatrix, Dark Lord of the Fourth Age.

You can totally theorize that she was like, a particularly badass Spiderdemon or something, but the game doesn't say anything about that.

[main ibex]

better question, what granted spiderdemons their mechanical legs and such

no way they just made that shit

[native anchor]

So that means Olivia Pierce being morphed into the Spidermastermind was a way of being cursed by Aranea Imperatrix, whoever that is.

[nova dawn]

In 2016 it is the warped exoskeleton of Olivia Pierce. In the OG games it isn't ever said, but the most likely scenario is that it is indeed Hell technology. Some believe it is pilfered UAC tech, but the Mastermind and Cyberdemon were already cyborgs by the time we fight them merely hours after the invasion began.

[nova dawn]

Olivia is twisted into the physical vessel of the Imperatrix, yes.

Imperatrix + Olivia = Spider Mastermind

[main ibex]

yeah but what woulda made that, most of hell's forces were effectively animals by this point

[nova dawn]

Barons, Hell Knights, Archviles, Tyrants, Spiderdemons, and Imp Stalkers are all essentially Hell "people." It's a military invasion, not a horde of animals.

[main ibex]

I see

[nova dawn]

Hell is a bustling society. Most demons we fight in the games are essentially citizens of Hell, rather than mindless animals.

[elder sage]

In the doom movies(which are asscheeks)they’re supposed to be humans

[native anchor]

Alright, makes sense.

[native anchor]

So like Chaosrealm in Mortal Kombat.

[nova dawn]

Barons, for example, are not just big monsters. They are the revered and respected royal guard of the Dark Lord. They are soldiers fighting an enemy combatant, not just predators.

[main ibex]

isn't the dark lord the guy that we see in the doom eternal dlcs that takes on the slayer's form

[nova dawn]

In regards to the cybernetic enhancements, it's for military advantage. TDA says Arachnotrons are normally pretty fragile, so cybernetic enhancements fixes that.

[native anchor]

Yes.

[nova dawn]

Yes, but there are many Dark Lords. He was the original. Before he comes back in Eternal, Hell is ruled in his stead by a reigning Dark Lord who controls Hell. Hell's history is divided into Ages based on which Dark Lord reigned.

The classics and TDA take place in the First Age, where Hell is struggling to appoint a Dark Lord successor to Davoth. In TDA, Ahzrak is trying to achieve that.

[balmy perch]

What's y'all's opinion on legacy of rust?

[main ibex]

saw civvie11 play it

[median trellis]

great wad

[main ibex]

civvie makes peak videos automatically so I can't tell if the wad was good or if he just made it enjoyable because he's him

[torpid yacht]

Ik but It got repetitive after the first 15 maps

What mod/wad should I play next? I play on the ps5 so my options are limited lol

[native anchor]

Does Doom 64 run at 60 FPS on original hardware?

[bitter shoal]

https://tenor.com/view/jameson-laugh-cackling-lmao-lol-gif-11834142

N64 was.. very below PC gaming standards

[fierce junco]

Was 60fps even a thing when it came out?

[bitter shoal]

yes?

[fierce junco]

Oh- im sorry, I wasnt alive then lol

[bitter shoal]

it is just that the Nintendo 64 sucks and like the only 60 FPS game on it is Super Smash Bros

[native anchor]

Yes. F-Zero X ran at 60 FPS.

[fierce junco]

Ohh, ok

[main ibex]

wasn't it capped under 60fps anyways because of the ticrate or something

[native anchor]

I guess so.

[median cloud]

Damn u beat av on controller as well?

Depends what ur looking for

[crystal hill]

odd take. It's a multi person project, and so the maps are pretty different between them all

[bitter shoal]

you know that is a great point, community projects can sometimes have inconsistent quality but it can also not be as repetitive either as a result

[crystal hill]

some are more focused than others. Community Chest 4 is a lot more varied than Plut 2 is

[median cloud]

I played av map 27 2 times yesterday

Ended map both times due to a cyber rocket

Very oppressive map in terms of ammo and health especially going in blind

First time I died right after yellow key outside the castle second time after the red skull thanks to the cyber in the main area who blocked me

[torpid yacht]

They throw a bunch of monsters at you and have to super shotgun them all everytime.

[crystal hill]

Hardly

some maps are a slow burn, some maps are full on slaughter, some almost adventure map-y in scope

[torpid yacht]

Getting to the lift at the icon of sin map on controller almost made me lose my mind 😤

[torpid yacht]

I wanted to finish as soon as possible on Some of the last maps

[crystal hill]

I'm not a fan of dark dome, but everything else was a welcome challenge

[torpid yacht]

I didnt like much of the last half of the maps that much

[crystal hill]

demonic hordes really grew on me as I played it. It feels overwhelming and hopeless at first, but a bit like go 2 it, it gives you enough resources to keep going

[torpid yacht]

I liked the pyramid and 25 but the rest I couldn't wait to finish lol

Id rather pistol start map 25 30 times than play the last maps

[crystal hill]

yikes, they arent that bad

[torpid yacht]

Might start revilution or going down tonight

[crystal hill]

going down is probably my favourite proper WAD

everything works so well in it

[median cloud]

27 feels more obnoxious

10 and 20 are my fav maps tho

[crystal hill]

skimming through it, it's also quite a gauntlet, but one that equally seems doable

now I want to replay AV, dammit

[median cloud]

It has just way less health and ammo

25 is honestly pretty stacked on supplies

[crystal hill]

it's got less enemies as well. Also more linear

[median cloud]

The only fight that I found really hard was the first one because you need to stay around long enough for substantial infighting

and thats only relevant if u uv-max

25 also has 3 invuls

If you take one of them away it changes the map a lot in difficulty

[torpid yacht]

I survived the first fight on my first try 👀

The one that gave me some trouble was both revenant waves, one by the church and the other where they teleport

[torpid yacht]

Ok ill play that first

[oak adder]

I still dont like the icon of sin.

[solemn socket]

gzdoom a bitch
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1099127093419311237/1451813106291445907/image.png?ex=694789d1&is=69463851&hm=bf0588bd7207a4cae4cbd715e30db206e0b0ea25de16bc34a122b2fe5acb0922&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

[lone moat]

very true

that whole ai scandle sucks

[solemn socket]

i'm not about that

[bitter shoal]

were you able to get this working in other source ports or vanilla?

if so that is hilarious

[solemn socket]

infact yea, in crispy

[bitter shoal]

[crystal hill]

Probably a better fit for #classic-doom-maps-mods

[dusty totem]

Idk its not a doom ‘mod’, rather a unique game

Maybe better for general, but also new doom players dont vibe with the old doom graphics as much

[mighty walrus]

You'd be surprised

[crystal hill]

Indeed

Many doom fans love it for the base game, not the crazy new thing using the gzdoom engine barely counting as Doom

[bitter shoal]

depends on the map I don't think many people vibe with Sandy's map visual design comapred to other ones :P (I think it was Romero that said that his maps were ugly but they liked playing them)

Chasm was definitely trying soemthing though I'll give it that

[crystal hill]

my point is not all doom fans love GZDoom games

[native anchor]

IDK if I'm doing something wrong, but I cannot get the Crispy Doom avalible form the KDE Discovery Store to work on my Steam Deck.

I added it to Steam and typed the path to the WAD in the launch options, but it would always give me an error saying it was unable to detect the WAD.

I had to resort to downloading the Windows version and running that via Proton, but even that still had issues. Only the OPL music font would work. Everything else was just no music at all.

[tame finch]

Did you try other source ports?

[native anchor]

No. But UZDoom does have a Linux version avalible so hopefully that works.

[tame finch]

WAIT IS THAT OUT!?

[crystal hill]

been out for weeks

I had to compile it from source on my Linux PC, but it worked fine

[tame finch]

I meant a pre-compiled one