#classic-doom

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twin mortar
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Man I really need to finally play Final

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Everyone's talking about TNT being goated and Plutonia being goated while I haven't experienced any of Plutonia and only half of TNT

crystal hill
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Plutonia comes highly recommended

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TNT comes

slate gyro
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I like No Rest for the Living better. It's short but sweet. The final level is underwhelming though

crystal hill
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it's probably the consistently best Doom 2 expansion it helps being 9 levels, but I still enjoy Plutonia more. I think its 2nd place

slate gyro
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What about Sigil 1 and 2? Reviews are very mixed on those

little oar
crystal hill
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I'll go back to it... eventually

twin mortar
crystal hill
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I've never heard the reception of Sigil 1 or 2 to be mixed

twin mortar
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I have heard people say SIGIL II is mid

slate gyro
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I've watched reviews or videos that say that both Sigils are underwhelming. Coincidentally both from Hispanic content creators

crystal hill
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the worst i've heard about Sigil 2 is that it's less good compared to the original

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Sigil 1 is a breath of fresh air into Doom 1 wads after years of E1 copies and kinda generic stuff

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I haven't played Romero's remixed E1 levels, but I'm getting to them, and I'm looking forward to em

slate gyro
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Like, I don't have the videos, but one was a Doom + Doom 2 review that went over every expansion and the other was an unrelated video that made a quick jab saying something like "At least it's better than Sigil"

crystal hill
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better not have said that about the master levels or I'll have his head

slate gyro
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Personally I liked the aesthetic of Sigil 1, but I like Doom 2 expansions for a reason: enemy variety

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Haven't played Sigil 2 yet

crystal hill
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Again, Sigil 1 is not a Doom 2 expansion

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You can't expect too much enemy variety when there literally are less enemies to choose from

slate gyro
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I know, and I respect what it achieves, but it simply isn't my thing

crystal hill
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fair enough. nothing's for everyone

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As far as Doom 1 wads go, it does the best with enemies. I hardly miss the super shotty or the enemies

slate gyro
twin mortar
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I don't think saying 2016 is better than Sigil is an extreme take but it's kind of a nothing burger thing to say

crystal hill
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its a weird comparison to make

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you can make it, but those two games arent really similar. Classic and nu doom are very different beasts

slate gyro
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Yeah, that's why I'm struggling to make connections with the few dots I remember

twin mortar
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I guess you could compare them both as attempts from the DOOM company and one of DOOM's creators to archive the same goal; reviving DOOM? But that's a stretch

crystal hill
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one of the guys who made doom also made this thing over 20 years later, coincidence? I think not

slate gyro
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It would be pretty unfair to compare a fully new game made in real 3D with a big team working on it versus a small expansion made by a small amount of people and only has new textures and music. But I wouldn't be surprised

twin mortar
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And oh god does Sigil have smexy new music

little oar
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Buckethead my beloved

twin mortar
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Hate Machine is my favorite opening song to any semi-maybe-possibly-official WAD

crystal hill
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Hate Machine is iconic

crystal hill
twin mortar
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Oh yeah that one rocks too actually

crystal hill
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I dont love TNT, but it has my favourite opening Doom level from the classic era

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NRFTL might beat it out but it came out a decade later

twin mortar
crystal hill
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mhm

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and sigil actually delivers on that promise

twin mortar
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Running from Evil sounds great too, all of them do, but the levels last like six seconds if you know what you are doing

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Unless you play the master levels, then Running from Evil will make you foam at the mouth

finite crag
crystal hill
twin mortar
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My first run on the MLs was done periodically, like four levels a day, so Running from Evil didn't get to me much

finite crag
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community megawads kept distracting me from trying evilution (and a few official wass)

twin mortar
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Second run though, man. Man. Mannn.

crystal hill
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First time I properly played the master levels, I did so with the official compilation wad from Doom 1 + 2

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works nicely in a source port, gives each level unique music, a specific order, makes the map specific gimmicks all work, and even has ending text

twin mortar
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I played on the Unity port (I love that port so much btw) but I did also run through it on D+D2 and yeah being in order makes them better

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Final DOOM feels like the Spear of Destiny of DOOM

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Game confused for an expansion pack, rarely played by casual fans due to being less relevant, but usually liked by the hardcore audience

exotic ledge
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I honestly had a blast with Sigil 2, Level 6 is my fav out of all the Sigil levels. Unfortunately the final two Sigil 2 lvs really didn't do it for me, it was a let down

full shoal
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Im now at Plutonia m17 (seems like dogshit) and I'm wondering when is this supposed to turn good? I mean it's hard for sure but I don't think it has good looking or well designed maps. I guess it would be fun with saves to get constantly revenant and chaingunner ambushed. Just feels... overhyped?

crystal hill
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plut isn't a pretty mapset, but I really enjoy the combat

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traps are mostly telegraphed, so you can anticipate and prepare for them

rocky flax
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gzdoom is great to launch doom btw (since you can also look up and down or everywhere too)? Idk but I played that version of Doom

sharp wyvern
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it's like NRFTL for DOOM 1

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SIGIL II is like not hated it's just kind of a resounding "eh"

sharp wyvern
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especially given how Legacy of Rust (which should've been considered its own game) is also called a Doom II Episode

sharp wyvern
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might have one of my top 5 MIDI songs in "official" wads

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(as for the Thorr soundtrack for Sigil II I think E6M3 and E6M5 have the best songs)

exotic ledge
sharp wyvern
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yeah the final boss is pretty naff

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would've liked it if the spider mastermind gained some new attacks to go with the tripled health like the spider mastermind in Going Down

sharp wyvern
exotic ledge
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But I thoroughly enjoyed learning E6M6, very non linear, every BFG shot is calculated, and my strats constantly switched up to be able to deal with the final Cyber encounter. One of the most memorably fun lvs I played on Sigil (did each lv from Pistol Start, saveless)

bitter shoal
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It is weird that Romero's return to doom mapping was making an E1M8 that was just a bigger level that escalated the progression instead of a set piece boss but the SIGIL levels didn't follow through on that (although this is me preferring the focus on the bosses just on pure spectacle, SIGIL 1 didn't do a good job on that either)

sharp wyvern
sharp wyvern
exotic ledge
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iirc Black Tower should be the penultimate map, then Express Elevator To Hell should be the final map, before the secret map

sharp wyvern
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black tower is the final map of cabal i think :p

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oh nvm im very wrong

bitter shoal
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IIRC the levels are all made in isolation and aren't really meant to have a progression but some ports made them play sequentially I believe

sharp wyvern
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for example the Cabal Series which has its own plot and level order

bitter shoal
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I know FInal DOOM on Playstation does. And yes that makes no sense on a couple of levels

exotic ledge
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The txt story is interesting too, you're playing as an outcast cyberdemon that has been turned into a human by satan, and now you're getting revenge on the other cybers that wronged you

sharp wyvern
exotic ledge
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Black Tower itself is such a fantastic map, it's the only one of the Master Levels that I can actually remember, I think most of the other lvs are underwhelming

bitter shoal
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I only watched Coincident play Black Tower (I don't have access to Master Levels) and it seemed very cool

sharp wyvern
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the other members are Veavitdpoh (the archvile in Bloodsea Keep), Chagrin (the cyberdemon in Black Tower) and Mephisto/Lucy (the IOS in Mephisto's Mausoleum, implied to be the IOS/Baphomet from Doom II as well)

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soo uhh theres some obscure doom story for those levels ig :P

exotic ledge
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Actually, Mephisto's Maosoleum was memorable, that took me a really long time to beat single segment lolol

sharp wyvern
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MM has pretty meh gameplay but I can really commend the attempts it made at level design (by that I mean how everything looks and the set pieces and stuff)

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the revenant rising out of the coffin is cool

bitter shoal
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I really liked Plutonia Revisited's Map 27 being something like Tricks & Traps but not shaped like it, until there were a couple of things I couldn't do on controller, one had a switch I could do to skip the platforming segment if I failed but the other required wall running. Then I hated the map once I realized I needed to do an archvile jump for the BFG.

bitter shoal
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Map 28 was really good as well, you really have to take thye bad with the good with this wad

solemn socket
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question: whats your favorite doom soundtrack? (mods included)

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i like MAP28 ost of freedoom

bitter shoal
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DOOM 1's for sure.

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including mods, then Pirate DOOM wins OBVIOUSLY KevIsHappy

bitter shoal
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probably gonna try to get through map 29 tonight to finish off the wad

exotic ledge
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Legacy Of Rust has some incredible soundtracks to it

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official Doom, TNT has some of my fav music (smells like burning corpses_

exotic ledge
twin mortar
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Yes and I'm not a fan personally but I appreciate the engine

bitter shoal
exotic ledge
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there's one right at the end, but it's super hard to kill him with the Arch still alive, and obv if you want the secret exit you need the arch to boost you to the secret, you can't drop down again

bitter shoal
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oh apparently I could actually get the BFG without the archvile jump but it is down the hallway that requires strafe/wall running which I can't do

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so I just ran past the cyber and the three archeviles and whatever else was in that last room and stepped on the exit portal because I'm not gonna sweat UV Max doing maps blind.

sharp wyvern
stiff basalt
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I agree

crystal hill
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Does that count as classic if it came out after doom eternal?

sharp wyvern
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im not sure lol but i count it given it is a wad for classic doom

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i mean would you count nrftl despite it coming out after doom 3

crystal hill
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That makes more sense to call classic, because its a decade and a half closer to the 90s

sharp wyvern
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ok well what about sigil which was after doom 2016

crystal hill
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As much as I love it, no

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It was adopted as being "official" later, but it wasnt when it came out

sharp wyvern
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that's not really relevant to the debate at hand the point was all of those are still classic wads despite coming out after the classic era

sharp wyvern
crystal hill
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Its a difference of being commissioned to make a thing and having your thing being adopted after being created

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Like I said, I like sigil a lot, I'm not trying to beat down on it with this. Its just how I think

sharp wyvern
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and in both instances they're still official

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TNT wasn't commissioned it was bought right before release Sigil is just a longer delay version of that :P

crystal hill
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I'm down to consider TNT not official Cacoawkward

sharp wyvern
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lol

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anyway Legacy of Rust counts as ""classic"" cause it's an expansion pack for a classic doom game

crystal hill
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But to circle back, Sigil isnt in the classic "era" either.

sharp wyvern
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~~though really it should be considered it's own game ๐Ÿค“ ~~

crystal hill
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It deserves to more than any other "official" doom release

sharp wyvern
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??

crystal hill
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Because its got new enemies and a weapon

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Its more different than any other official release

full shoal
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It's more Doom2 than Doom2 crazy

bitter shoal
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eh I'd give that distinction to Plutonia or DOOM 64 first

sharp wyvern
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annoying 'doom 64 is the REAL doom 3' people should change to "LoR is the REAL doom 3" :P

bitter shoal
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nah I actually appreciate that, DOOM 64 never got its due so it was really nice seeing people acknowledge it and enjoy it.

sharp wyvern
bitter shoal
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DOOM 64 was pretty gaslit on release, games were pretty unfairly treated if they weren't fully 3D polygonal

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at the time

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or in its case people thinking it was a DOOM port, etc

sharp wyvern
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thats not what gaslit means ๐Ÿ˜ญ

bitter shoal
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I didn't have a better word

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and I'm not going to think of a better word, deal with it

sharp wyvern
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:P

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anyway LoR has more of a claim to being Classic Doom III nowadays given it's like Doom II and didn't change the artstyle and stuff

bitter shoal
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oof I'm getting tired, so Plutonia Revisited Map 29 might not be until tomorrow

burnt sorrel
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haii

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anyone can recommend doom mods or som? whats the difference between doom-freedoom-gzdoom

crystal hill
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Skillsaw's work is a good starting place, as is Overboard by mouldy.

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Doom is the base game, freedoom is the same thing but with graphical and sound replacements which lets it be distributed for free, and gzdoom is a source port thats used to run both of the above, as well as mods

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If you want to play gameplay mods, you will need gzdoom. If you just want to play new maps and with new weapons, you can use alternatives

twin mortar
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Like I won't call it unofficial because it isn't, but it isn't as official as for example DOOM II

sharp wyvern
bitter shoal
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Neither Final DOOM's IWADs nor SIGIL are canon so I consider them equally official yeah.

sharp wyvern
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they're both canon :P

sharp wyvern
crystal hill
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So why make the distinction?

bitter shoal
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Officially Endorsed Mods probably just means a curated list of mapsets you can play so that you aren't playing a Terry Wad or something but SIGIL (and II according to Doomwiki?) sits next to Final DOOM and Master Levels as far as endorsement goes.

full shoal
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if it's in DOOM + DOOM2 it's official coolcaco

bitter shoal
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though technically we shouldn't actually take it too seriously because like all of 1994 wads are officially endorsed by iD

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thank you Maximum DOOM

sharp wyvern
sharp wyvern
bitter shoal
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okay cause steam page wasn't saying it was, thank you for theh clafification

sharp wyvern
karmic estuary
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But no achievements for completing it kekw

sharp wyvern
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yeah cause steam makes adding achievements a pain in the arse so they didnt bother doing all that for 1 achievement

karmic estuary
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It's not on Playstation or Xbox either

bitter shoal
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and also they probably don't want to complicate Playstation trophies since that has a tiered trophy system and from what it sounds like it is part of the "base game" and not some kind of DLC that would warrant separate trophies

sharp wyvern
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if theyre not gonna bother with one why bother with the rest

bitter shoal
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also that is probably the actual distinction, what is already downloaded when you get DOOM + 2 and what you have to download separately from that separate mod list

sharp wyvern
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yeah basically thats what denotes Official Wad vs Endorsed Wad

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previously official expansions like final doom were in the mods list in the previous port but they got put on the menu for D + D2

crystal hill
sharp wyvern
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i mean it is notable that sigil and sigil ii are special cases

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which is why i made the distinction

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but they're still official and canon wads of course

crystal hill
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The only canon wads in my heart are the golden souls ones Cacoawkward

woven swallow
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Eviternity and Eviternity2

twin mortar
sharp wyvern
exotic ledge
# bitter shoal ??? Secret exit?

I'm losing my mind lol, this is what happens when I try to converse at 3am haha. When you mentioned it was something like Tricks and Traps, I instantly thought of Express Elevator To Hell, but that's the Master Levels, not Plutonia lolol (which also contains an Arch jump to get a BFG)

winter charm
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I never could imagine ages ago youth even being remotely interested in classic Doom. Pixel games among them seem to be so common now and Doom is one of them.

mortal silo
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Inspiration has struck me.
Now we just wait for motivation ๐Ÿ˜…

crystal hill
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regardless of the date or who's playing them

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also helps that the zoomers like their memes and gameplay mods

red harbor
red harbor
crystal hill
crystal hill
solemn socket
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to be honest i thought brutal doom was an official id game and thought that i couldnt afford it

twin mortar
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I thought Kanye West was a female politician

crystal hill
solemn socket
crystal hill
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plenty of mods look good

twin mortar
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Brutal is not one of them romero

solemn socket
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it was way before i knew what mods mean

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or playing doom

thorny nest
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I remember first learning about doom mods and being blown away when I saw Shrine for the first time, at the time I thought it was a completely new game

runic laurel
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hi

placid crown
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yo

bitter shoal
halcyon willow
placid crown
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i need to buy classic doom again

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i loved brutal doom 2 years ago

crystal hill
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did you lose the wad files?

thorny nest
halcyon willow
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Indeed

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Very talented

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I've met him a few times, he's from NZ as well

bitter shoal
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map 29 of Plutonia Revisited was relaly nice, I just cheated to beat map 30 screw that

native anchor
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Why do they call it "Final Doom"?

solemn socket
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only tnt knows.

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or just it sounds badass

bitter shoal
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well I don't know if expansion is the right word since the games are stand alone

sharp wyvern
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final doom is technically its own game but nowadays it gets called an expansion by id

bitter shoal
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back then it wouldn't be an expansion if they had their own executable without needing a prior installation first

sharp wyvern
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yea

sharp wyvern
native anchor
bitter shoal
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's perspective,

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they were DONE with DOOM, they likely didn't expect Midway to want to make another sequel (which incidentally ended up being the canon one weirdly enough)

sharp wyvern
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both are canon

smoky pine
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anyone wanna play?

proper hazel
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i just wanna learn how to make doom maps ๐Ÿ™‚

storm schooner
crystal hill
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Final Doom was called as such because Doom was quickly aging. Quake was coming out, not to mention the Build engine games. ID didn't think Doom has a commercial future, and so called those two wads "Final Doom" to reflect that

bitter shoal
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Yeah, pretty much what I was saying but you put it into words better.

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It was a producct they put out because unlike today's game development cycle where it takes ten years to find out that your GaaS cash in is coming out to an audience that has moved on to new fads, 3 years to make a new game was a much shorter time so they needed to put out stuff like DOOM 2 and Final DOOM to bridge the gap and Final DOOM was close enough to Quake's release that they could decide that was the last DOOM related thing to put out (until Midway decided to defy that)

crystal hill
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and even Doom 64 was somewhat more advanced than D1, 2 and Final

bitter shoal
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Yeah, Playstation DOOM was a legit advancement of the engine in a lot of ways (it wasn't some attempt to make the game work at all like 3DO DOOM or Carmack's misguided commandment that is Saturn DOOM) and DOOM 64 did more with to expand the engine kind of like Hexen or Strife did.

finite crag
little oar
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Brutal doom seems like one of those things where it's probably really good on maps made specifically for it, but otherwise it's obvious the game wasn't designed with it in mind

bitter shoal
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I generally prefer not to mod in weapons and such unless the map itself does it and is meant to have that gameplay.

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Though a lot of that is because if I want stuff like realistic military weapons I'll just play Counter Strike

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actually I'm not against modding in joke weapons that aren't meant to be taken seriously but I hadn't actually done that yet except for that one time I used the selfie stick wad

little oar
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Vanilla DOOMs core weapons are done so well that I can't imagine any replacements being superior or even equal to them tbh

bitter shoal
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yep

little oar
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I felt the same when they swapped out the energy weapons in LoR. They were neat but I still think the plasma rifle + BFG were better

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Especially when the flamethrower had such a weird learning curve to it for what isn't that much different of a utility than the rifle had

bitter shoal
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I feel like the most common weapon mod I see is buffing the Chaingun but I think they managed to balance the Chaingun in such a way that you still use it for the sheer utility it has if maps actually give you ammo for it, and usually buffing the Chaingun or turning it into some high rate of fire assault rifle usually makes it overpowered since now it has all of the advantages the Chaingun does now but crazy DPS

little oar
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Chaingun is perfect as is for dealing with smaller demons you don't want to waste shotgun ammo on, can't see why people would think it needs a buff

bitter shoal
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Plutonia was a good example of where it shines, but the Casalis didn't really care about it so they rarely put ammo for it and chaingunners were always in places where you couldn't pick up their ammo drops. Meanwhile this Map 29 of Plutonia Revisited had plenty of Chaingun ammo and it was kind of an amazing weapon as a result.

little oar
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You've been talking about revisited a lot
What is it exactly? Is that like a "redo" of Plutonia or more of a sequel?

bitter shoal
# little oar You've been talking about revisited a lot What is it exactly? Is that like a "r...

I've been talking about it because it is the current mapset I have been playing. I wanted to play Plutonia's sequels (although now I realize Revisited isn't really a proper sequel) and started with Plutonia 2 which I can safely recommend for its consistent high quality and sticking with its own strengths of the creators. Plutonia Revisited is a community project made by various mappers but that also means not everyone is on the same page of ideas so while there are plenty of maps that could easily be on par with Plutonia 2's offerings, a lot of them ended up pretty derivative of Plutonia 1 (sometimes being too similar and not different enough); it is kind of like DOOM the way iD did or something like that.

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There is a Revisited 2, hoping a lot of the maps that are too closely copied from Plutonia are filtered out in that one if I do play it.

little oar
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Heard of DOOM the way id did, never tried it. I haven't played many community wads though it's something I'd really like to.
What would you say the difficulty is like? Equal to official offerings or made to be more brutal a la Sunlust?

bitter shoal
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I hadn't played Sunlust. Plutonia 2 might be the hardest mapset I've played so far actually.

little oar
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What difficulty do you play on?

bitter shoal
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Ultra Violence

little oar
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Ah
Do most maps have changes for stuff like HMP or is everything just UV balanced usually

bitter shoal
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I don't know, but I think most mappers balance for UV first and then lower the difficulty from there because you need to make sure UV is beatable.

little oar
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Makes sense

full shoal
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Flamethrower in theory offers more gameplay variety, but it is not as fun to use as plasma rifle. Simply because of the sound. I could listen the OG rifle's PEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEW as a meditation before bed.

little oar
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Meaning if you're surrounded you force yourself in one direction lest your tracers miss the big target you need them to hit

full shoal
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I don't actually know how the tracers work so that might be why I find it unsatisfying :D

little oar
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(I have no way to describe this without just explaining how any gun works xP )

little oar
bitter shoal
little oar
bitter shoal
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where the tracers actually come from is your body and not the actual ball so people do setups to shoot the ball at a wall before moving out of cover or shoot at a group and look back to the direction you are trying to move in as long as your body is still exposed to enemies

little oar
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(Also just a really fun channel in general if you want to learn about DOOMs quirks!)

full shoal
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Thank you! I'll take a look. Might help with Plutonia!

little oar
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It might! That and just learning the maps and where/what spawns

crystal hill
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I would say its the weakest weapon (minus the normal fist and pistol of course) but it still has a number of valuable roles to fulfill, and so gets good use in many a level

sharp wyvern
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also i like the incinerator as a slightly more risk slightly more reward replacement for the rifle

little oar
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The idea is fun for sure but I think the hitbox for self damage is a bit too close imo
Also didn't seem very consistent, but after awhile I tried avoiding it all together so maybe I just need to learn it better

sharp wyvern
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once you figure it out it basically melts every single monster

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honestly i'd almost call it OP if it wasn't for the fact it's still easy to die with it

full shoal
sharp wyvern
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but it just demolishes cyberdemons and spider masterminds like crazy

little oar
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Oh yeah I remember it being stupid good against cyberdemons at least

little oar
full shoal
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Maps like Black Tower and Trapped on Titan sure took some time to memorize ๐Ÿ˜

little oar
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Oooh master levels stuff

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Black Tower is rough but is still a pretty neat map, the gauntlet at the top is pretty fun

mighty walrus
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@little oar new pfp?

little oar
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Mhm!

mighty walrus
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v naice!

little oar
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Thanks

crystal hill
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Its pretty neat to get ambushed but still make it out by the skin of your teeth

full shoal
little oar
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The consequences of your actions came early this year

full shoal
little oar
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Secrets are hard
I'm lucky to find a 1 or 2 but I also think looking them all up would spoil the fun of it

crystal hill
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I have no shame about looking them up. I don't want to miss out on some crucial secret and then bang my head against a wall for an hour

full shoal
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I only check them after completing the map. "That would've helped."

crystal hill
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I dont love the secret hunting in Doom. I prefer to use the secrets to facilitate the gameplay

full shoal
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It's nice to notice when you get better in the game. I think it took me around 20 hours for Doom1 and Doom2 to get through with uv saveless. Also something like that for master levels if not more. But now I'm getting through Final Doom much faster so I guess it's skill

crystal hill
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Oh, 100%

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I used to struggle to get through Doom 1 on UV, even playing continuously and with saves

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Its very cathartic to see how far I've come

full shoal
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Perfect Hatred was the first big step :D Absolutely hated it but now I love the experience.

crystal hill
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Hell Keep was a big milestone for me. It took me multiple hours, over a few days, to beat it the first time

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Now, I can usually beat it first try

ebon ferry
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SIGIL seems to have some content put aside, like some battle arenas

ebon ferry
crystal hill
full shoal
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It has a deathmatch map for each mission

ebon ferry
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Yeah deathmatch maps, never tried one of those before though

crystal hill
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neither have I. Not a multiplayer guy

placid crown
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ever play final doom for ps1

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it was supposed to be yk, "the final doom"

crystal hill
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I imagine most people have played it on PC instead

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It was called the Final Doom because thats what it was intended as, as Quake was just around the corner

median cloud
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if u have PsyDoom u can emulate it on PC

patent oar
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Anyone wanna play classic doom pvp?

placid crown
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plutonia is great too

median cloud
placid crown
#

dude, ps1 sound design is peak

placid crown
median cloud
#

the classic doom is better than final doom however, playing through master levels is a drag

placid crown
#

final doom wasnt better, but it was a novelty

little oar
#

Except for Plutonia Experiment which is peak actually
Best classic DOOM campaign

#

I'd love to try the ps1 port of the games some day but lord they're kind of pricey

placid crown
#

duckstation is a great ps1 em

little oar
#

I don't pirate

#

Playing them isn't an issue, I have both a PS2 and PS3 so playing it isn't the issue
acquiring it, however, is

placid crown
#

hm

median cloud
little oar
#

Oh?

placid crown
median cloud
#

love tnt map 20 as well

little oar
#

Been awhile since I played tnt
Which ones were those?

#

I remember the Quarry being pretty neat, whichever one that was

median cloud
crystal hill
placid crown
twin mortar
#

Is it really a strange and weird idea to want to abide by law

little oar
#

And it's nice to actually own this stuff physically. Easier to keep them that way instead of dealing with digital files

#

(And DOOM psx has a long box which looks goofy and that's fun)

placid crown
placid crown
twin mortar
#

Well what else could you have possibly meant

placid crown
#

its not strange to abide the law, i mean i dont see a lot of people who don't use piracy

twin mortar
#

You said it's a weird principle and I countered by saying it's the legal one, that's all (all I have left to say on this subject since it's not allowed in this server)

placid crown
#

alright i was not trying to start an argument

twin mortar
#

There wasn't one don't worry

placid crown
#

great thanks

#

what is you're usual doom preference AnomeQ

twin mortar
#

What do you mean by that?

placid crown
#

what doom game do you play the most

twin mortar
#

Probably the original? But I like them all

placid crown
#

Doom 1 is still golden even today

#

modding expands its potential even more

#

i myself like project plutonia

#

and Doom 1 is the one i come back to

crystal hill
#

If we're discounting mods, Doom 2016 might be my favourite, followed by Eternal. But if we are counting mods, Doom 2 easily sweeps

sharp wyvern
sharp wyvern
little oar
#

I mainly want to try it for the lighting system and music tbh

#

Lack of Plutonia is kind of a bummer but we make do

bitter shoal
#

Half of PSX Final DOOM is Master Levels for some reason

little oar
#

Does it have Black Tower

sharp wyvern
#

no

bitter shoal
#

no lol

sharp wyvern
#

it has human bbq at least

little oar
#

Damn </3

sharp wyvern
#

most of the chosen master levels are not great

little oar
#

Well, still nice to have Final DOOM anyways
May as well atp

#

However cut up and weird it is in excluding the GOOD levels

twin mortar
#

Not nice to play anything with the PSX controls I imagine, but it can't be as bad as Hexen PSX

sharp wyvern
#

i get leaving out some of plutonia i guess itd be pretty difficult to do most of those

bitter shoal
#

PSX controls were actually pretty good, you had circle strafing.

twin mortar
#

There is the PSX mouse too I suppose

bitter shoal
little oar
twin mortar
#

What do you mean by that

#

Ahh you mean DOOM PSX

little oar
#

Unless I missed it but I could only move with the j*ystick on I + II

#

Yeah psx

twin mortar
#

Very confusing to call it DOOM I + II :p

little oar
#

No

twin mortar
#

Hexen PSX has you needing to press three buttons at once just to look up or down iirc

little oar
#

Psx good because Dpad :)
I + II bad because j*ystick >:(

twin mortar
#

...what?

bitter shoal
#

He is saying D-Pad is better for controlling DOOM

little oar
#

^

twin mortar
#

I can see that, but what is "PSX" and what is "I + II"

bitter shoal
#

PSX is the original Playstation

little oar
#

PSX as in Ps1

bitter shoal
#

PSX was the model designation for it

twin mortar
#

I know what the PSX as the console is, I'm just confused about what is being talked about here

#

I + II is DOOM PSX? And PSX is the console itself?

crystal hill
#

Doom was a mistake

bitter shoal
#

I + II is the most recent release of DOOM on modern consoles and PC storefront

little oar
#

I'm saying that DOOM probably controls better on PSX because you can use the dpad for movement there, something that (from what I could see) I + II doesn't let you do

little oar
crystal hill
little oar
#

Not that I found

bitter shoal
#

I'm sure you can get D-Pad controls on a PC, but Playstation? Nah

twin mortar
#

Oh okay that clears it up yeah, sorry I've never seen it be called I+II so I got confused. You could buy a M30 8BitDo to fix this (which I know you have, Lego)

little oar
#

I do but it's the Xbox variant

#

My console I + II is the PS

twin mortar
bitter shoal
#

Playstation has global remapping but I don't think it lets you map analog signals to the D-Pad

twin mortar
bitter shoal
#

Or use Steam's controller stuff

twin mortar
#

True but we shouldn't have to do that

#

Steam Input used to suck, glad they fixed it recently

little oar
#

Curiosity more than anything else

twin mortar
#

Use it on PC? The controller or the game?

little oar
#

Game

twin mortar
#

Plug the controller into your computer

little oar
#

PC is my main way for doom
I tried it on ps out of curiosity of seeing it on a big TV

#

That's where I learned there's no dpad movement

twin mortar
#

Well you can plug it in and set it to LS mode but there's no right analog stick so you're kinda fucked

crystal hill
#

I cannot imagine playing an FPS game on anything except keyboard and mouse (except maybe with a wii mote and nunchuck)

bitter shoal
#

taht is the cool thing about playing DOOM in VR, it is like the wiimote + nunchuck controls but way better

#

I miss Red Steel taht game was fun

exotic ledge
#

Woah, Map 10 in TNT Devilution just took a huge spike in difficulty

#

Might be the first map I use a video for, I'll plod on blind for now, but it's not often I find myself having to deal with revs by punching them out lolol

red harbor
#

does anyone know any similar projects to HONTE Remastered for Doom 1?

bitter shoal
bitter shoal
#

me after seeing Decino just... not wake up the wave of pain elementals at the center room of Map 15

#

of Plutonia 2

bitter shoal
#

I'm gonna use my laptop and chocolate doom to play Plutonia 4

#

and use cheats if I want to

#

they don't care about me so neither will I!

bitter schooner
#

how to get doom2 wad file ?awjhjhd

woven swallow
exotic ledge
#

I have to admit, I enjoyed P2 a lot more than I'm enjoying Devilution

#

As difficult as P2 was to do in single segments, it was a wild ride

sick yacht
crystal hill
#

I've tried to play stuff like Half Life on a controller in the past. Absolute nightmare

sick yacht
#

I grew up playing shooters on controller, maybe that's why

crystal hill
#

oh yeah, if you're well practised with using a controller, you'd be better with them

sick yacht
crystal hill
#

I played COD4 on wiimote + nunchuck, it was pretty cool

red harbor
exotic ledge
#

wooooah man, Map 10 is no joke for real, this is the first time I'm going to have to out practise into each segment to get good enough to single segment it, this is insane man

#

I'm having to go into Okuplok mode lol

woven swallow
exotic ledge
#

TNT2 Devilution

#

I'm guessing map 10 is an end-of-episode level, it's been fairly staright forward up until now

red harbor
#

Man I wish ID made a full remake of at least Doom 1 and 2, I'd love to see how they'd do it these days

placid crown
#

unless its not like the san andreas remake

#

a full remake, not a terrible "hd" remake

twin mortar
#

What San Andreas was closer to a remaster than anything

sharp wyvern
#

though itโ€™d be interesting to see remakes with a more classic combat style (like TDA)

green parrot
#

what is supercharge?

bitter shoal
green parrot
#

of course. but what does it do?

bitter shoal
#

It is the soul sphere but when you pick it up it says "you got the super charge!" and it gives you +100 health and it goes beyond 100 health (to a max of 200)

green parrot
#

odd. i didnt get any bonus health.

full shoal
#

I don't think there is anything to remaster in doom or doom 2. There is already mods for graphics but also... there is nothing wrong with the graphics.

#

Doom + Doom 2 is good way to repackage the classic doom, no need to do anything more. It will just ruin it as most remasters do.

#

There is a great Youtube video how "You don't hate remakes/remasters enough" :D

crystal hill
#

I watched that one, I also recommend it

bitter shoal
#

I'm sure silent hill fans hate remasters, considering what happened to the 2 & 3 HD remaster from eyars ago

crystal hill
#

the remasters were nice, because they made the base games and some level packs more accessible to the average gamer. But if you're so hardcore that you want Doom to look different, you're hardcore enough to learn how to download mods

sharp wyvern
#

Also we already know how theyโ€™d remake Doom 1 given theyโ€™ve done it 3 times

stiff basalt
#

The Ultimate Doom remake remaster

remote cedar
sharp wyvern
remote cedar
#

Was it really meant to be a Doom remake? I thought it was just some spinoff

sharp wyvern
#

I mean yea itโ€™s basically the first Doom as an RPG if it stopped at the Cyberdemon like 3

crystal hill
#

So its possible another "doom 1 remake" would be different to both

sharp wyvern
#

Yeah but only in a bit

#

Doom 2016 is what current Id would do if they were remaking it, weโ€™d have to wait for a change in leadership to see a new style

little oar
# crystal hill Doom 3 and 2016 are vastly different games

To be fair, it did start as a DOOM 1 remake to the point where John Carmack threatened leaving/firing everyone if they weren't allowed to do it
Whether or not DOOM 3 stayed as that vision the entire way though is up to you. Afaik a word on the subject wasn't said again outside him announcing a DOOM 1 remake back in 2000
If we aren't going to count DOOM 3 as a DOOM 1 remake then we can't count 2016 either

sharp wyvern
little oar
#

Oooooh crap

#

My bad, I misread that

red harbor
solemn socket
#

question: do you think save scumming is okay

crystal hill
#

of course. You're the one playing. Its up to you to decide if its okay or not

sharp wyvern
#

especially if youre playing tnt

crystal hill
#

or swim with the whales

wintry copper
#

if you can't beat Okuplok without savescumming then you Okusuck

still falcon
#

Is there a doom port (or a doom clone) that has multi-threading support at the cost of logic not being fully faithful to the original?

#

It would be cool to see a port that already has multi-threading/parallelization in mind for modding and such

sick yacht
#

The blue powerup in Doom, Doom 2 and Final Doom

sick yacht
#

Dont want to start the entire level again and lose my items

#

When I die, I revert back, like modern games

sick yacht
#

A Remake is something like the RE Remakes, Halo Campaign Evolved, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, etc

#

Silent Hill 2 also a remake

solemn socket
willow vine
#

soul killer dealguy

somber rose
#

Punch it!

willow vine
#

yeah !

full shoal
#

I kinda rediscovered doom with that

crystal hill
#

I concur

#

it's a blast to pistol start most levels

#

and save scumming makes everything too easy. Even hard maps like swim with the whales

little oar
#

Did DOOM 1 + 2 ever fix that issue where using the pistol start option made backpacks not function correctly?
I'd love to pistol start but I feel like being stuck with the default maxes is going to make things a lot harder

halcyon willow
crystal hill
#

I did maps 2 and 31 like that

#

but I save scummed the shit out of 3

full shoal
little oar
#

Iirc near launch if you had the force pistol start option enabled, backpacks wouldn't double your max ammo count when picked up

#

It applied to the whole episode and only reset if you died and manually restarted the map that way (which kind of defeats the convenience of having a pistol start by default toggle)

crystal hill
#

Resurgence had a bit of a rocky start for me, but it's got some real good maps in the first third. Still doesnt compare to Speed of Doom though

cold wadi
full shoal
little oar
#

I guess that's one way to go about it, sure

crystal hill
#

I usually idclev to every new level when I beat the old one

#

Or killbind into the teleporter into the next level

plush tundra
#

is gz doom fucked

#

idk whats happening can we not use it anymore

bitter shoal
#

It got forked into a new version maintained by different developers I believe

#

and new versions don't magically erase the versions you already have on your hard drive, these aren't DRM'd software or software attached to a store front

plush tundra
#

so can i still play brutal doom and stuff the same?

bitter shoal
#

yes

plush tundra
#

hooray!

#

I need to fix zdl

#

its saying the application doesnt exist when i try to launch brutal doom

crystal hill
#

gzdoom dying won't affect your copy that you downloaded from the internet

bitter shoal
#

well I don't use Brutal DOOM so I can't help you, maybe the mods cahnnel can, the Brutal DOOM enjoyers tend to be in there

crystal hill
#

that's not how that works

plush tundra
#

alright chill out

bitter shoal
#

there's probably gonna be a lot of misinformation concerning gzdoom because the "GZDOOM IS DEAD" headline makes for youtube clickbait (already saw that one clickbait repeat offender make a video on it)

crystal hill
#

unless zahl says he's taking it down or getting rid of it, it won't be "dead". It'll just either stay as it is or get updates just from hm

bitter shoal
#

or it lives on through the new fork

#

that was what happened with a build planner for Path of Exile, it got forked to a community run build and the original developer ended up just not working on it due to working at Grinding Gear Games

plush tundra
#

Zahl more like

#

Poopy head

crystal hill
uneven otter
solemn socket
#

he thought putting salt over food is good so he salted himself and that was too much

hoary forge
#

didnt knew Graf was this much of an asshole

#

thank god i have never touched GZD and stuck with Woof bcuz of my slow-ass PC.

solemn socket
#

hes too late to capitalize on that

cold wadi
#

i mean gz wasn't all graf, there were amazing contributors, most of which have moved onto UZdoom, but thanks to its contributors gz accomplished amazing things

crystal hill
#

I dont see any moral issue with using GZDoom just because the lead is a prick

wintry copper
hoary forge
#

like bro, what

#

thats the most stupid shit ever

wintry copper
#

right??

hoary forge
#

fr

#

"Y-Yeah, my game engine is the absolute goat of game dev and every game s-should be made on it and the ones that aren't are made by c-crybaby losers!! :("

#

like bro, the Earth rotates around the sun, not you ๐Ÿ’€

#

also, not even his game engine

#

he was just an active contributor

crystal hill
#

I think he was specifically upset that lillith used and abused old zdoom engine quirks, and was given a cacoward for it's artistry

hoary forge
crystal hill
#

didn't say otherwise

hoary forge
#

lol

crystal hill
#

if lillith somehow abused those same engine quirks on gzdoom, I reckon he'd be just as pissed

hoary forge
#

fr lmao

#

also, the fact that lilith doesn't work with GZD specifically becuase it requires specific bugs from ZDoom to work just shows that he's a great developer, for being able to sucessfully fix those bugs and make the overall GZD experience more stable

#

the fact that he took this as a insult instead of a compliment just shows how arrogant he is

#

but then if it was the opposite, and it did work with GZDoom, then it would show that he's an "bad" programmer

#

so he would be pissed regardless ๐Ÿฅ€

wintry copper
#

yeah

hoary forge
#

youre increasing the download and visit numbers

#

youre increasing his ego in a way ๐Ÿ™

crystal hill
#

๐Ÿคทโ€โ™‚๏ธ

#

you could argue I'm also supporting the work of the other, less dickish developers

hoary forge
#

but if you wanna do that then just go to UZDoom

crystal hill
#

not out yet

hoary forge
#

rlly?

#

thought it was

crystal hill
#

its only been a week or so

hoary forge
#

i thought it was already released

#

so i guess u can go with GZD till then lol

crystal hill
#

it seems to have released, but I don't know if it will work with ZDL

#

I'm on linux, and I cant drag and drop wad files like I could on windows. I'll give it a try though

wise cape
#

hey chat just seen the midnight vid crazy stuff. but midnight does exagerate his titles alot ngl

bitter shoal
#

yep I stopped clicking on Midnight videos for abusing cheap clickbait and a lot of other people are already talking about GZ DOOM so there isn't really any need for it as a news source

wise cape
#

yeah i dont get calling every slightly wierd doom mod disturbing or "illegal" like sure some mods fit in that category but still

mighty walrus
#

I'm sorry, this just popped up on a reel and I died

bitter shoal
#

is that the 32x soundtrack?

umbral shale
crystal hill
#

Huh. Does GZDoom start off with freelook as true by default?

bitter shoal
#

yes

umbral shale
crystal hill
#

ahh, so UZDoom doesn't change that

#

and does it come with freedoom 1 and 2?

bitter shoal
#

no clue

#

TIL Eternal DOOM was co-authored by TNT

crystal hill
#

there's a weird loading screen when I play on UZDoom

#

GZDoom loads into the wad instantly. UZDoom holds on the logo (?) for a short while, before loading up the wad. Happens with Doom 2 and Golden Souls Remastered

bitter shoal
#

See if there is a setting to disable it

crystal hill
#

Doesn't seem to be

#

searching for keywords hasnt worked

#

oh fuck

#

its already quite a bit more optimised than the version of GZDoom I have

#

UZDoom doesn't run nuts.wad WELL, but it certainly runs it better than GZDoom did

scratch that - once the enemies get alerted, it runs signficantly worse. Before, it runs better

bitter shoal
#

That seems awesome

crystal hill
#

as a result, I think I'll stick to my old copy of GZDoom for the moment. easier than tweaking this GZDoom one when I reckon new versions will be coming out pretty frequently for a while

#

will say though, it's run at least one wad that my old GZDoom can't because it's too old and I cant update it

halcyon willow
crystal hill
#

Sure, but I never noticed the load time on GZDoom before, even if it was present

#

On UZDoom, loading up Doom 2, just Doom 2, takes a second

halcyon willow
#

GZDoom has some odd settings, but I doubt there's one for "load the wad slower" LUL

#

You're probably better off bringing it up with the developers

crystal hill
halcyon willow
#

Although I'd wait for a proper UZDoom update

crystal hill
#

oh yeah, no doubt

halcyon willow
#

erm actually

#

It could be your Windows security settings

crystal hill
#

I had a chat with someone here that made me realise a version of UZDoom was out, so I went and tried it out

crystal hill
#

Unless Linux has Windows security settings

halcyon willow
#

lol

#

Your, uh, Linux security settings OpieOp

crystal hill
#

Could be the fact that I had to compile it myself

#

I got my Gzdoom version from what's essentially the linux app store, which is the only version that works on my ZDL

halcyon willow
#

If it continues to happen with an official build then it'll be worth raising

crystal hill
#

That and the slower performance are my two gripes with what I've played so far

#

neither are critical, and if I were forced at gunpoint to play UZDoom instead of GZDoom, I wouldn't cry over it. But they are still problems that I don't have on GZDoom, so

gentle carbon
#

does anyone else here play doom? you guys arent even talking about it

crystal hill
#

Is this a troll?

#

we were discussing a source port, that I use to play Doom

bitter shoal
#

we were literally spamming names of source ports that have the word doom in it glaresip

#

pretty soon I do need to do plutonia revisited's secret maps (been kind of sick which is why I hadn't)

crystal hill
#

let me see if they're worth doing

#

31 is a sorry excuse for a map, 32 is cool if you like go 2 it style slaughter

mighty walrus
crystal hill
#

I, for one, am not currently playing a map called You Dig, one of the most unique vanillaish (boom) maps I've ever played

bitter shoal
crystal hill
#

it's VERY buggy

#

the bugs section on doomwiki is longer than the secret sections

bitter shoal
#

amazing

#

this is why I keep noclip as a voice command

#

in case something breaks

crystal hill
#

little commands like that are one reason I prefer gzdoom

#

idclip is a thing in other ports, but flying isn't

halcyon willow
halcyon willow
crystal hill
halcyon willow
crystal hill
#

Using their instructions on github

halcyon willow
#

My money is on that then

#

Also there are more things than just the display settings that will affect port performance

crystal hill
#

I guess I'll look into that more tommorow

#

Today, I sleep

halcyon willow
hearty tulip
#

Anyone want to play co-op and voice chat with me?

full shoal
#

Hey on Bunker in Plutonia, is the red key optional? Or is it Doom + Doom 2 bug? I completed it yesterday and noticed that I didnt even find the red key and doom wiki doesn't have a word about it. Seems like and oversight since the red key stuff is like half of the map.

sharp wyvern
#

but both to 100%

solemn socket
full shoal
#

That is conflicting information my friends

#

Oh you fixed it :D

sharp wyvern
solemn socket
#

i shouldve been more specific

full shoal
#

doom.fandom didnt have walkthrough at all

sharp wyvern
#

yea fandom wiki is p bad :P

full shoal
#

Aah now Doomwiki works and gives me all the answers. Thank you!

solemn socket
#

id make a PR to ublock origin to block the fandom wiki

crystal hill
#

Sometimes its the only resource when doomwiki is down frequently

south dragon
#

Hi

#

Doom is fun so far

static jay
#

Playing through "easy" slaughtermaps and I gotta say im having a lot of fun, I die a lot sure but the combat is really well designed and a ton of fun, I don't really see where the hate for these types of maps come from tbh

crystal hill
#

Tends to be aimed at the BFG spam and the "mindless" combat

halcyon willow
# static jay Playing through "easy" slaughtermaps and I gotta say im having a lot of fun, I d...

What maps have you been playing? I might have some recommendations of what to play next.

As for people who dislike slaughter maps there are a few causes:

  • Slaughter maps tend to be on the long side, some people don't want maps that are 2-6 hours long even if they're undeniably well made (eg Sunder)*
  • Slaughter maps tend to be more difficult with the high end going to the extremes. Again, not for everyone
  • Slaughter is the hardest encounter style to do well. Just throwing 1000s of enemies at the player makes for very boring combat if there's no thought put into it. Making 'good' slaughter fights takes a lot of experience and a lot of testing.

*The exception to this would be projects like Micro Slaughter Community Project, where the maps were required to be beaten in less than 5 minutes while stilll being 'slaughter maps'.

static jay
halcyon willow
#

Rush is a good starting point

#

Was one of my first slaughter mapsets to play

#

Speed of Doom and Scythe 2 would be good ones to follow with

#

And then I'd go Deus Vult

static jay
#

Noted

halcyon willow
#

Deus Vult is one of the grand daddies of slaughter. A heavy inspiration on things like Sunder and my own work.

worn fractal
#

I think a part of the DOOM 1993 experience is getting lost, a LOT

mortal silo
#

Is there a way to reverse the donut?
It's cool that a platform lowers and turns into lava. Is it possible to then re-raise that platform as not-lava?

halcyon willow
#

Actually you could do it in vanilla but it'd have to be with something funky like miko portals (which essentially allow for voodoo doll style scripting in vanilla)

mortal silo
#

oh with like a dummy sector i can reverse the donut?

#

yeah i dont want to go full gzdoom i mean uzdoom

#

i am thinking like the mastermind fight in 2016 and those platforms that rise and then sink

#

@halcyon willow

halcyon willow
#

Even change the textures back

mortal silo
#

ty

halcyon willow
#

In fact, given how much of a pain the donut action is in general, I would do it manually for both parts

mortal silo
#

yeah i am thining of running a voodoo doll over a long loop and have this platform change every 5 seconds or so

barren matrix
native anchor
#

Uninstall GZDOOM.

karmic estuary
#

You have my word

native anchor
#

Nah, I got rid of it yesterday.

#

For now, there's the Nightdive release for just the vanilla game, which is what I wanted to playn in the first place.

karmic estuary
#

Thus I'm just not doing anymore doom wads until UZDOOM release as it's basically GZDOOM without the incompetent, narcissistic chicken

#

Or AI code

#

Had to finish my Sigil YT series in one night (3 remaining levels) before I fully said goodbye to GZDOOM

bitter shoal
#

just use PRBOOM or something like that for limit removing wads that also don't require GZDOOM features

native anchor
#

You couldโ€™ve just tried Sigil in DSDA or something.

bitter shoal
#

You can actually use the actual BOOM port to play SIGIL in DOS even

native anchor
bitter shoal
#

well DSDA then

karmic estuary
#

I could have, but I was already half way through before learning of the controversy

bitter shoal
#

but like, these aren't GaaS games, old versions of stuff are valid to use as long as they aren't like sending data to Graf to sell

#

in fact a rule of using software is to not upgrade if you don't have to

karmic estuary
#

Haven't thought about that

bitter shoal
#

Like

#

I actually have to ask

#

is GZDOOM sending data to Graf

karmic estuary
#

It probably IS Spyware

bitter shoal
#

because if it isn't using internet connectivity to send data to him for him to profit off of, or any other data then removing GZDOOM from your hard drive is actually not really doing anything morally, you just keep your current version and not bother upgrading (until you want to use UDOOM)

native anchor
karmic estuary
#

I made Map 1: Bloodbath and some of Map 2: Crushing Game before AI controversy, which is why UZDOOM is the option

karmic estuary
#

This could change EVERYTHING as ZDOOM is not updated

bitter shoal
karmic estuary
#

Sweet

bitter shoal
#

DOOM has Y-Axis (but it gets ignored by sloppy collision implementation to rush the game out which Hexen and Strife fixes) just not free look

#

basically it is supposed to be able to make vanilla compatible demos

#

it is used for speedruns

karmic estuary
#

Without y-axis, no walls

bitter shoal
#

No walls?

karmic estuary
#

Without it, it'll all be flat

bitter shoal
#

DOOM has differing floor and ceiling heights though?

#

and you can even make holes in walls

#

it isn't Wolf3D or Rise of the Triad

karmic estuary
#

Complicated shit, so I will end it here and recommend you watch a video about this topic

#

I am too smart. I forgot DOOM isn't a 3D game cacocringe

bitter shoal
#

It is absolutely a 3D game

#

the myth of it being 2D is one of the most annoying misconceptions

#

People just look at an auto map from top down and think that is how the game is

#

there are limitations yes but not enough to make it 2D

#

all of the limitations are in the map format though, and in how up and down looking is rendering (but that is also like saying Playstation games aren't 3D because polygons will warp)

stiff basalt
#

1.5D

karmic estuary
# bitter shoal It is absolutely a 3D game

You are right, 3D games have an X, Y, Z, axis. 2D games lack the Z axis and only have the X and Y axis.

DOOM has the Z axis. Many more ways to debunk this, but it's a general rule to follow

bitter shoal
#

There are things like projectiles which do respect the Z axis, and also the holes in the walls I mentioned allow monsters and yourself to stand on the floor that is inbetween them, ceilings being too low is also respected etc etc

#

it is mostly just infinite height on things and again Hexen fixes those with the same engine

karmic estuary
#

Another misconception I see about this topic is due to the fact you can't merge planes to put an area underneath another one

bitter shoal
#

yeah, that is a map format limitation more than anything

karmic estuary
#

Yes

#

Enough of this technical talk, where do I get DSDA? (Server hates links so if you can DM, that'd be great)

bitter shoal
#

I never downloaded it myself but I'm sure looking up DSDA DOOM should find you it

karmic estuary
#

Thanks

#

Found the DOOMWORLD link coolcaco

#

I can download it now as I'm feeling better now

#

It technically qualifies as tomorrow for me anyway lol

little oar
#

Is DSDA the go-to source port for vanilla DOOM (just with some stuff like map limitations removed/fixed)?

#

Or I guess a better question is, besides GZDOOM/UZDOOM, what would the best source port be if your main intention is playing most of the big fanwads that aren't stuff like total conversions or whatever myhouse would classify as that relies on GZDOOM stuff?

crystal hill
#

It goes felt to right, but also up and down

#

I've seen at least two or three secrets in wads that need to be activated with this spread. It couldnt work if doom was 2d

bitter shoal
little oar
#

Perfect then, thanks

karmic estuary
crystal hill
#

vanilla is almost like a novelty at this point, a flexing of your skills to say "hey, look what I can make in vanilla doom"

karmic estuary
#

I should try that, being a mod dev of stuff excluding DOOM as well, I need to challenge myself

crystal hill
#

good luck

woven swallow
woven swallow
#

they support complevels 0 all the way to 21

little oar
#

I've tried Woof! but none of the others, so I'll look into those too

woven swallow
#

Feel free to ask more questions about sourceports I have like 36

crystal hill
#

I dunno about the utility of having more than two or three source ports

#

Dsda doom runs most everything you couldnt run with GZDoom, doesnt it?

woven swallow
little oar
crystal hill
#

Minus the sound being weird to my ears, it plays wads about as well as gzdoom does, which is my bread and butter

#

Pretty sure the 1+2 port is very compatible with wads

little oar
#

I assume so, but I'd rather be safe rather than sorry and have a backup port that's comfortable just in case

crystal hill
#

you're wanting to play some wads, not disarm a bomb

#

if 1+2 ain't doing it for you, you can switch then

little oar
#

Alr

median cloud
#

Depends on what you want honestly, I use dsda-doom for limit removing wads and GZdoom for mods

#

Chocolate Doom for vanilla stuff or if Im feeling nostalgic

crystal hill
#

seems quite reasonable to me

median cloud
#

Think Woof is a pretty decent fork of dsda-doom

little oar
woven swallow
halcyon willow
crystal hill
#

not even close

halcyon willow
crystal hill
halcyon willow
#

The Nightdive port is like, kinda shit

crystal hill
#

what's wrong with it?

halcyon willow
#

Clunky, doesn't fully support mbf21 despite claims. The mod manager is a dumpster fire

#

And it's very unlikely it'll be updated with new features

#

The multiplayer side of Doom 1+2 is pretty cool, but it's still worse than Zandronum

#

It's big upside though is that it is console ported

crystal hill
#

what it lacks in being as good, it gains in being easy to use and set up

halcyon willow
#

There is that, I'd argue all ports are easy to use and set up though

crystal hill
#

looking at a guide to get zandronum working got me misty eyed. Couldnt make my non doom playing friends make it work for love nor money

halcyon willow
#

Zandro gets a bit more complicated when setting up multiplayer, but that's solved by using TSPG

#

Free server hosting

#

Extremely stable and good

twin mortar
#

D+D2 is fine, but on the settings I play with, it's just Unity but without the cool credits sequence. So I have a clear favorite here. Though D+D2 has some cool features I like to play around with

#

And SIGIL sounds much better

sharp wyvern
#

the nerve software credits was kinda neat

#

it's rly funny how when it was first added it had fucked up music and textures tho and rly bloated the game filesize with this giant prerendered video

sharp wyvern
twin mortar
sharp wyvern
#

i see i see

#

yea the unity credits were pretty cool i liked how it was like the doom 2016 cutscene

#

i wish every doom game had a credits like that but apparently id forgot about it after doom 2016

twin mortar
#

DOOM II Unity's credits are broken on console for me

sharp wyvern
#

how ๐Ÿ˜ญ

twin mortar
#

Plays the first game's credits. Though via Xbox on PC the right one plays

sharp wyvern
#

huh weird

twin mortar
#

DOOM 3 had cool credits

#

BFG ruined them by fucking up the music

sharp wyvern
#

did bfg seriously mess up the credits

#

how

twin mortar
#

The note that starts the credits music plays twice for some reason

#

https://youtu.be/lWZnHZzms2A?si=2TEXmso9lQZSfc78

YouTube
MPPCGamesHDR
DOOM 3 BFG Edition | Credits

Join us: https://bit.ly/4gQdrNN

Solution, Longplay, Walkthrough, HQ Gameplay Videos (60แถ แต–หข) แดดแดฐ โœ”โœ” With No Commentary !

%100 Complated Games:
The Beast Inside 1080p60fps https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcqRtu2kxlK1JAwm8KcJwbWNZ0jW7l-Ri
Shadow Warrior 2 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcqRtu2kxlK1oOvcjqr-tNZ6_5jk_0j...

โ–ถ Play video
sharp wyvern
#

HOW

#

HOW DID THEY FUCK THAT UP ๐Ÿ˜ญ

twin mortar
#

Hey in the original the music fades out and restarts right before the best part

#

So they're both lacking

sharp wyvern
#

do u mean when it fades out while betruger is flying??

twin mortar
#

The original one feels cooler though, seeing the logo in the background is cool

twin mortar
sharp wyvern
#

im not sure which part youre referring to

twin mortar
#

I don't know how else to describe it

sharp wyvern
#

:P

#

for me it just played the intro part, did the betruger scene, did the main riff onwards and looped and stuff

#

im not really sure what the problem is

twin mortar
#

It does loop but it fades out right before the best part starts and THEN loops

#

Which is a bit weird

halcyon willow
twin mortar
#

And we got new ones on a regular basis which is great for console players

sharp wyvern
red harbor
#

is there anything like KDiZD for the other episodes of Doom 1?

halcyon willow
red harbor
halcyon willow
mortal silo
#

I can't wait the the shores of the shores of zoom. Tsotsozd

true urchin
#

need a mod that plays the blue shell alert sound when an archvile starts attacking

thick quail
#

Finished sigil 2

#

Holy hell that final area

karmic estuary
thick quail
#

I got extremely lucky in being able to get the spider mastermind and one of the cyberdemons to infight

#

But even moreso that the spider mastermind won that fight, so I could get it to weaken the other cyberdemon while also getting itself killed

#

Then all it took was one well placed BFG shot to the weakened cyberdemon

bitter shoal
#

FINALLY

#

I COMPLETED PLUTONIA REVISITED

#

if Plutonia 2's Go 4 It didn't have an ||Icon of Sin|| section Plutonia Revisited's Map 32 would've been the hardest of the three Go 2 It's I've played.

#

Overall a 7/10 mapset mostly because there are too many maps that feel like I'm just replaying a Plutonia 1 map with very minor changes among great maps that could sit alongside Plutonia 2's.

#

and Map 03 I'm sitll convinced was made by a Plutonia hater

#

On Map 32 ||I think the last section is a good example of how a slaughter map or more specifically fighting groups of Cybers can avoid the stereotype that you just circle strafe because it had a layout full of pillars and different paths you can take that cause the Cyberdemon movement AI to decide to go in different directions and possibly even flank you by circumstance||

bitter shoal
#

Plutonia Revisited Community Project 2 (PRCP2) is a continuation in the series of Plutonia-inspired megawads. During Plutonia 3's development, there were a handful of great maps that didn't quite fit in a Plutonia 3 megawad but would fit great in a PRCP megawad. So PRCP2 was started! PRCP2 is not as classic as PRCP or Plutonia itself, but we dare say the spirit is very Plutonian and fun to play.

#

wait, Joshy was making a not terrible Plutonia 3? ๐Ÿค”

crystal hill
#

I think he still is

#

But its in development purgatory

crystal hill
#

Its definitely not on the same level of enjoyment as Plut 2 is, or even Plut 1

sharp wyvern
karmic estuary
crystal hill
karmic estuary
crystal hill
#

Boredom, perhaps

solemn socket
#

i played hexen until i reached guardian of steel crusher area and left, and holy shit it is so confusing, every time i complete a guardian i have to go back to the 7 portals and finish the rest because apparently i need keys, switches, teleport to a different area of that guardian for them to complete. in terms of combat, you just m1 go back, once they miss their melee m1 them again and repeat unless you play as the mage, and do that until you see ranged enemies

#

it is THAT bad.

iron moth
#

Okay am I the only one who thought the Spiderdemon from Doom II didn't have arms

red harbor
#

huh, they do

iron moth
#

Okay well at least I'm not the only one who thought they didn't

barren matrix
#

i have arrived >:)

iron moth
#

Incredible

barren matrix
#

:>

crystal hill
barren matrix
iron moth
#

Oh wait, nevermind

#

Cat disconnecting from low DualShock 4 battery doesn't have anything to do with classic Doom

bitter shoal
#

Me entering the exit portal of Map 2 of Plutonia Revisited 2 and starting Map 3

iron moth
#

Pepino

crystal hill
#

is it that hot?

bitter shoal
iron moth
#

Fucking hate the Archville

crystal hill
#

jesus

#

on map 3?

bitter shoal
#

I got out without taking damage so it was funny as heck

crystal hill
#

maybe it was just there to scare ya

#

or to get you moving. Kind of like the start of cowface in kama sutra

bitter shoal
#

yeah it is one of those starts

#

this is the funniest one I've seen though

crystal hill
#

Can't wait to play it late next year

bitter shoal
#

already just these first couple of maps are better than most of Revisited 1 and feel more in the spirit of Plutonia despite Revisited trying to be an exercise in copying the Casalis style

iron moth
crystal hill
#

some of PRCP1's maps emulated the Casali style well

#

others copied the aesthetics and architecture while taking a nice cold piss over the gameplay

#

Plut 2 meanwhile didn't really copy much from Plut 1, other than the difficulty. Not that I mind

iron moth
#

Rah

bitter shoal
#

That is why I like Plutonia 2 so much, it ultimately decided to just play off its own strengths of its mappers and realize it is a sequel so it doesn't need to "revisit" Plutonia 1 zones

crystal hill
#

100%

#

They got some damn good mappers for that project, too

#

I've come to realise that that's what seperates good community projects from bad ones. Map vetting

bitter shoal
#

Like I"m pretty sure Gusta worked on most of the maps to some degree so it ended up being incredibly cohesive too

crystal hill
#

That's the most tragic part of P2

#

He finally came into his own as a mapper, one well worthy of respect and admiration. Then he stopped

bitter shoal
#

yeah, if Revisited were like a modern community project and dumped some of its weaker levels as being super secret levels and replaced them with better ones it would be much better

iron moth
#

I gotta see if I can't get doom builder to work with doom and doom 2 off of steam

crystal hill
#

I'm playing mayhem 2048 right now, and some of the super super secrets feel like maps they had lying around and just threw in for gits and shiggles

bitter shoal
#

yeah I learned quickly that super secret levels are more out of the respect of the mappers that contributed than something you would actually want to play

#

most of the super secret Amalgoom maps are really mid

crystal hill
#

some super secrets can be good

#

CC4's Mutare has stuck in my head for a while, and for good reason

#

the gimmick is cool, but so are the fights that are built around it

#

D2TWID's two regular secret maps are both nice inversions on W3D just ignore map 33

red harbor
bitter shoal
#

Map 4 isn't that crazy in terms of difficulty but it is decent as well. This mapset is starting off way stronger than the first Revisited

#

I was questioning whether I wanted to actually finish playing all of the Plutonia series and instead pursue other stuff but now I might not regret this decision cacodemon

hollow tree
static jasper
#

I'm a new player into the doom series and man I didn't imagine I'd have so much fun in a 1993 game

#

These guys back in the day really knew what they were doing

sharp wyvern
#

Itโ€™s so good

cinder sapphire
static jasper
#

I don't regret buying the whole series on sale at all

cinder sapphire
static jasper
#

First run as it was intended and the 2nd time I just enabled cheats to mess around

#

Now doom 2 then I'll do all of the extra wads

#

If i had to complain about 1 thing about the first doom, which is a pretty minor thing anyways, it's still 1993 game, but often I just wouldn't understand where to go to get the keys I'd lose myself a lot of times.

mortal silo
#

Yeah, the mazes have basically been excluded from modern wads

#

But I do still enjoy the teleport puzzle from limbo

cinder sapphire
mortal silo
#

I was going to say doom 2 has less mazes but then I remembered the urban levels

bitter shoal
#

Plutonia is generally straightforward, SIGIL levels werenโ€™t too complicated either despite their detail and different elevations

static jasper
#

Also fun fact I'm a rabbit owner and I felt doom guy rage a lot, lmao

#

Don't blame him

sharp wyvern
static jasper
#

It works pretty well

bitter shoal
#

I warn I heard Master Levels can be hard to explore (I hadn't played them myself) I mainly say this is because I think a lot of people have been playing Master Levels for achievements

sharp wyvern
#

master levels are worth playing if you just want more doom

static jasper
#

Hurt me plenty is enough

cinder sapphire
#

I dont think anyone plays on nightmare ๐Ÿ˜… it seems more like a joke difficulty (anyone can correct me if I'm wrong but that's how I saw it). it just constantly respawns the enemies.

the hardest difficulty most people choose to play is Ultra Violence. Hurt me Plenty is great for me too and also how I usually play. if I want more challenge for certain levels, I'll go up to UV. but if it's too hard, I'll even go to the lower ones.

I'm currently playing an ultra realism mod called Hideous Destructor and had to start with Hey not to rough to get through some of the levels xD

bitter shoal
#

the problem is that apparently Nightdive didn't get the memo and made nightmare an achievement

static jasper
#

It wasn't pretty and honestly for me that type of stuff ain't fun

#

I would enjoy seeing others playing it tho

bitter shoal
#

yeah it wasn't meant to be, it was Romero trolling the player base and they even warn you it is unfair

bitter shoal
static jasper
#

Yeah for me hurt me plenty is the good stuff

#

And sometimes it's also a bit unforgiving

static jasper
bitter shoal
#

actually I can clarify this real quick

#

okay yeah Zero Master isn't the only one to have done Plutonia on nightmare as a speedrun but it was a big deal when he did

static jasper
#

I could manage to do it at some point but that just wouldn't be fun

#

For me at least

#

Then as I said it's cool to look others do it cause why not

bitter shoal
#

Interest in it is mostly a speedrunner thing

#

and it makes sense

#

because the way to beat Nightmare is to speedrun it

static jasper
bitter shoal
#

they just power through the damage they take lol it is crazy

cinder sapphire
bitter shoal
#

I assume they route out their health pickups optimally in order to make it possible

static jasper