classic-doom

[bitter shoal]

My point was more that iD did their own shovelware compilation and they weren't any better about other companies about it

[crystal hill]

oh yeah, they put that out, that's on them

[thorny nest]

“Master” levels, sure they are id, sure they are

[bitter shoal]

No backsies on your Master Level shade. I was talking about Maximum DOOM

[thorny nest]

I didn’t like master levels, I’m sure they were ok for the 90s, but they’ve aged like milk

[bitter shoal]

I'm sure they aren't good but they also objectively aren't shovelware either

[slate gyro]

Would be extremely disappointed if they did. Doing a modern Warcraft 3? Hell nah

[crystal hill]

they won't do it now. They're trying (and succeeding IMO) to earn a good rep with the Doom community

[thorny nest]

Oh, that makes sense, sorry wasn’t following the conversation too closely

[crystal hill]

on a replay, they aren't good on the whole, but generally better than the stuff from 1995

[slate gyro]

This guy gets me. What do you dislike about them? Just to know if it's what I also hate about most of them

[thorny nest]

Indeed, id wasn’t like “yes, let’s take this level made by an 11 year old and sell it in stores”

[crystal hill]

bit of a hot take, but most of the 90s wads people seem to like haven't aged well either

to say nothing of the less popular ones

[thorny nest]

I mostly have had trouble finishing them out of boredom. In addition the quality between levels ranges between mediocre and actual trash. It’s been awhile since I tried them, so I might give them another go to have a more accurate opinion of them

[crystal hill]

a lot of the master levels are really bland. Way too big with nothing to do in them, extremely annoying progression (waiting for steps to raise and lower in Christen Klei's maps), really uneventful fights

[thorny nest]

Sounds about right

[crystal hill]

But honestly, if you want to play stuff from 1995, this may be as good as it gets

H2H Xmas is disjointed but kinda fun too, and Nostromo's Run is enjoyable if overlong

[thorny nest]

Interesting, I haven’t played either, so I’ll take your word for it.

[crystal hill]

I wouldn't rush to play either, really. Unless you're an amateur Doom historian or also going through the Cacowards wads

[thorny nest]

Fair enough, I’ve just playing mods I’ve heard are cool through word of mouth. Right now I’m playing TNT2 Deivlution

[bitter shoal]

I wonder how good TNT2 is compared to Plutonia 2 which is insanely good

[slate gyro]

I honestly expected I was going to be called a noob for disliking the Master Levels. Good thing we aren't immature elitists around here

In many other communities I would be publicly executed

[umbral shale]

No they're just poor quality

And boring

[slate gyro]

Based community

@umbral shale Your PFP is some guy from a TV show I used to watch in ancient times

[thorny nest]

I like the doom community, as it seems to be made up of (mostly) rational adults, as opposed to children or sweats

[umbral shale]

Ye it's ton ton

https://tenor.com/view/totally-best-friends-ton-ton-dinotrux-good-friends-amigos-gif-17475023

[crystal hill]

I dunno, that seems to be a pretty common opinion

[bitter shoal]

I think the only reason Master Levels is an area of discussion is because it got released in more recent releases but even then you are given stuff like SIGIL as options

speaking of I would have liked to see Dario Casali play SIGIL, because it had the same philosophy he did where Romero wanted to make levels that challenged himself but it also utilizes tropes that would annoy him

[crystal hill]

Sigil is a far more worthy inclusion in the Doom family of levels than the Master Levels

Christen Klei and Jim Flynn made some absolute piss levels

[slate gyro]

I simply hadn't interacted enough with the community to find out

[crystal hill]

fair enough

[bitter shoal]

I wonder if those XBox exclusive levels got preserved, because they certainly don't belong in modern collections or XBox version to begin with

[slate gyro]

I think TNT isn't that bad for the most part. I really enjoyed some levels, and some of the tracks are banging

[slate gyro]

No Rest for the Living?

[crystal hill]

they're pretty easy to find, if you're looking for them

[crystal hill]

No, Betray and the other one

very very bad levels

[bitter shoal]

No, I mean those XBox levels

[crystal hill]

ehhh. I am much more down on them. Some levels are good, most are boring, some suck hard. The music is good, but that doesn't do much to elevate the levels

Plutonia has default music and is overall much more satisfying as a complete package

[bitter shoal]

Watching Dario play TNT and him starting to have a meltdown around map 18 or so going on a rant about some of thier maps being rejected, and then by habitat the realization of what iD meant when they wanted them to replace some of TNT maps but they wanted to work on Plutonia instead

He theorized that everyone on TNT wasn't sure what map progression was going to happen so they all made a bunch of early map candidates

Which I can believe it seemed like only the Hell Levels actually started to use the higher tier enemies more

[crystal hill]

Wasn't TNT Evilution bought out by ID at the last moment?

as in, it was days away from release, then ID gave them money and put the levels in Final Doom instead

[bitter shoal]

I don't know if it was the last moment but yes it was meant to be a standalone project and it was considered as the TNT team selling out and adding a barrier of accessibility to a project people were looking forward to playing

the irony being that Plutonia was the one to become the actual classic

well maybe TNT was a classic as well after people got over the FInal DOOM aspect of it

until Civvie made some tiktok shorts and now it is infamous again >.>

[crystal hill]

from my experience in the doom community, Plutonia has historically been much better regarded

as it should be

[crystal hill]

so, how did the team not know the map progression? that doesnt sound like ID's fault, that just sounds like they didnt know what they were doing

[thorny nest]

Sorry if this has been answered already, but if you're talking about No Rest for the Living, it's part of Doom + Doom II now

[bitter shoal]

I think the idea was at they had so many people working on the project and it was so design by committee that it ended up playing it way too safe. Probably why a lot of Dario and Milo's maps got rejected, I'm guessing they made some tech base maps that were considered too difficult compared to surrounding maps.

[crystal hill]

he's talking about two different levels

[bitter shoal]

I am ABSOLUTELY NOT talking about No Rest for the Living

[crystal hill]

I'll link them to you now

[thorny nest]

Got it, sorry

[crystal hill]

No Rest For the Living is very good, well worthy of being an official Doom WAD

[bitter shoal]

I only know about these levels because one of them was made into an Amalgoom map

[crystal hill]

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/MAP33:_Betray_(Xbox_Doom_II)

guess I can't link the other one

anyway, this and the other, Doom 1 map, are trash. I cannot recommend enough that you do not play them. Watch someone play them if you must

[crystal hill]

well, that's a problem with the level designers/the organisers, then

[bitter shoal]

Was I implying otherwise

I don't think I ever blamed iD on any of this

[crystal hill]

you seem to be making excuses for the project

[bitter shoal]

what

I don't understand what you are saying

[crystal hill]

you said here ID wanted some TNT maps replaced

[bitter shoal]

that is what Dario claimed, but they convinced iD to let them make maps for Plutonia instead

[crystal hill]

saying this later makes me think you thought that ID had a hand in the project being the way that it is

[bitter shoal]

how did you get that from that specific sentence?

[crystal hill]

"He theorized that everyone on TNT wasn't sure what map progression was going to happen so they all made a bunch of early map candidates"

why wouldn't they know what map progression was going to happen? on their own project?

[bitter shoal]

Like I said I think the implication was that the project had too many cooks and many people submitted maps without knowing how they'll be used so most of them ended up being tuned for early game

by submit I mean to TNT project leaders

if that is where you seem to be thinking I mean iD

[slate gyro]

Yo guys, just wanted to say that you're all really cool! I can't really have a conversation related to Doom, as for the most part I'm just lore dumping, which, while fun when it's clear the other person is paying attention, it's more interesting to talk with people who also know about the subject and even surpass my knowledge in said area

[thorny nest]

Same here. I'm a relatively new fan, but Doom has been my hyperfixation for the last few years and I genuinely haven't seen a community quite like the one around the classic Doom games.

[slate gyro]

Is the community that centers around the modern games worse?

[crystal hill]

Yeah, I seem to have misunderstood you

[bitter shoal]

yeah don't forget TNT was a project before iD came in and they are called Team TNT which implies some level of heiarchy or structure.

[thorny nest]

I'm not sure, I just interact with the classic doom community more

[slate gyro]

I think they're alright for the most part, though I dislike Master Levels in Doom Eternal (planet level coincidence) due to them being hyper long and throwing a massive combat encounter every two steps, and thus aren't as balanced in combat-exploration as the regular levels

But enough modern Doom talk, this is classic Doom at the end of the day

[bitter shoal]

Yeah whatever other sub-communities are doing aren't what is motivating me to be in this channel, I am in this channel because I play classic DOOM

[slate gyro]

I play EVERYTHING official Doom (besides Doom 3, haven't got to play that one), I'm just too attracted to these game, for whatever reason, and even to Doomlikes in general. I'm going to buy Heretic + Hexen in the coming days, and wanted a console port of Gun Godz since forever

[crystal hill]

I like Doom 2016 and Eternal, really really like them. But they don't hold my attention like classic Doom does and has for the past half a year and arguably longer

there's not a near infinite amount of user created maps for the nu Doom trilogy

[slate gyro]

Fair enough. Classic Doom receives a massive amount of fan content, and while not every fan project has great quality, you've still got endless content ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

[crystal hill]

there's plenty of nuggets of gold in there

the late 2000s and early 2010s, at least as far as the cacowards are concerned, have really been ramping up in quality

[slate gyro]

What about the modern day?

[bitter shoal]

Amalgoom is very good. Eviternity II looks top quality to the point where it feels like cheating to recommend it

[slate gyro]

Yup, that's not something that happens with 2016

[crystal hill]

Can't say yet

I'm working my way through every single Cacoward winner/mentioned wad, from 1994 all the way up to the present

[bitter shoal]

I think the only problem with modern day is that many mapsets are community projects. Amalgoom just happened to have mappers that elevated the concept into something more than just its base gimmick but there were some maps that didn't get the memo. I'm playing through Plutonia Revisited right now and it is also very up and down in terms of enemy encounters

[crystal hill]

I have played some of the winners from 2012 onwards already, but not all of them. I can highly recommend maps like Ancient Aliens, Auger Zenith, anything by Cyriak Harris, the Golden Souls games, etc etc etc

[bitter shoal]

oh yeah Pirate DOOM games are good I don't know if they are considered modern though

Pirate DOOM 2 maybe worse so because it takes awhile for the levels to ramp up

[crystal hill]

Community projects are a very mixed bag for me. Most of them aren't great, partly due to all the influences and mappers that make them

On the other hand, Plutonia 2 is technically a community project and I love it to bits

As is Alien Vendetta, the best wad from the first 10 years of Doom imo

[bitter shoal]

I think Plutonia 2 ended up being more of a team project than a community one in the end, a lot of the maps were made by the same people

[crystal hill]

indeed. Gusta really came into his own in that mapset

[bitter shoal]

And those that weren't Gusta were able to make content on par with his maps

[crystal hill]

damn shame he never made anything else

[bitter shoal]

it even had the Scythe guy make a map, that was peak

[crystal hill]

did it?

[bitter shoal]

only one map but it was one of the best ones IMO. I forget which map slot it was

[crystal hill]

oh right, he did

I found it kinda forgettable really

have I mentioned that I think he's overrated as a mapper?

Scythe 1 is enjoyable enough, bit of a mindless, simple romp through some levels until you hit a brick wall near the end (that slaughter map was pretty cool though)

[bitter shoal]

Well I thought it was one of my favorite maps before I realized it was him

[crystal hill]

But I have failed to connect with Scythe 2 both times I have played it

[bitter shoal]

I was going to play Scythe 2 before I decided to play Plutonia's sequels (except the jokewads)

[crystal hill]

I dont really have a desire to play the jokewad sequels any time soon. Maybe Plut 7, one day

[bitter shoal]

I started Plutonia 4 and while it has some interesting puzzle aspects so far, it reminded me that the player is part of the joke and I had just gotten off of Plutonia 2 so I needed a break

[crystal hill]

one downside of my cacoward grind is that I dont really care to try anything else

I COULD play the Plutonia jokewad sequels, but they arent cacoward winners and I cant strike them off my list. And I can't imagine they're going to be amazing

[bitter shoal]

They are a response to Plutonia 3, no need to worry about them

[rare drum]

wait until plutonia 1000 comes out

[bitter shoal]

The joke is that someone was brazen enough to try and use the Plutonia name for their awful level set, so Plutonia 4 is a straight up joke wad that did the same thing

While I was in the restroom I ended up realizing that Map 03 of Plutonia Revisted comes off as being made in bad faith. It starts off emphasizing the most memed about aspect of Plutonia (chaingunners pelting you as soon as you drop down) and the rest of the map was basically Ghost Town but with a lot of it cut out and was completely unoriginal for the most part.

[crystal hill]

Indeed

[crystal hill]

oh, that might explain the unfairness and meanspiritedness of the map

the start is utter BS. I absolutely hate maps that make you roll the dice on taking a lot of damage or not at the start

[rare drum]

unrelated but imagine plutonia in doom 64 (64 didn't have revenants, archviles and most importantly, chaingunners)

[crystal hill]

PRCP has some really bad design choices in maps, but it also has some great maps worthy of the name Plutonia. I'm quite conflicted on it

[crystal hill]

oh boy, time to bash Doom 64 some more -

[bitter shoal]

Plutonia had its mean spirited moments, but the only one I felt crossed the line was the start of that one map where you are being lowered slowly into hitscanners, and obviously it was apparent that came from inexperience since they didn't do that in future maps.

PRCP map 03 had benefit of hindsight which makes it feel made much more out of hate.

[bitter shoal]

just play SIGIL & 2

[rare drum]

i like the idea of final doom but not the execution too much ngl

like good doom wads for experienced players and its just 500 chaingunners in every single map

[bitter shoal]

Plutonia is very good inspite of the chaingunners and not because of them

[crystal hill]

Onslaught will always remain in my mind for starting you out directly behind a chaingunner

map already sucks balls to begin with, and then they pull THAT

[bitter shoal]

they put an invisibility sphere next to him at least

[crystal hill]

Its probably not so bad if you have a super shotgun in your pack, but I pistol start all the levels I play, so I have to kill it with a pistol at point blank

[crystal hill]

its not enough at such a negligible distance

[bitter shoal]

actually what decino did was not take the blur sphere but instead run to the opposite side to pistol the shotgunner, and was at 76% health on fast monsters pistol start

[crystal hill]

yeah but he's decino

[bitter shoal]

Map 07 of PRevisited was bonkers >_> and I wasn't even pistol starting it

I took a break mid map but 08 seems pretty interesting so far

[slim isle]

Anyone know what the most sqaure blocky doom 1 map is? need it for a project

[bitter shoal]

That one Tom Hall map with the crates probably. Tom Hall maps tended to still have a Wolfenstein 3D mindset as far as I could tell

It was in Episode 2

maybe there was one blockier but I forgot about it

[slim isle]

E2M2?

[bitter shoal]

I think that was it.

[slim isle]

yeah this is pretty much perfect for what Im working on, godbless

[gentle compass]

You don't say

[solemn socket]

what if one day you wake up and you're in a 128x128 sector

[bitter shoal]

I would be thankful there was a defined player spawn

[crystal hill]

two cyberdemons in a dead simple-like is a rude sight to be sure

[bitter shoal]

That actually wasn’t the bad part, it was figuring out where to go once the arachnotrons spawn in

[crystal hill]

Map 08 is a favourite, but if you're pistol starting, you NEED to know about the BFG secret or you are COOKED

I died to the last quarter of the map at least a dozen times. I looked up the BFG secret, and beat it on my 2nd try

[crystal hill]

I dont quite see the issure

yeah, just beat it, wasnt ever really confused

the worst part of the map is the caco cleanup for 100% kills

[bitter shoal]

You know… getting to where you are safer

[crystal hill]

I see

that's the thing in Doom maps. Often, you cant quite get to where you are safer. So you have to MAKE the safe space

save the plasma, kill the mancubi with the rockets (plasma is more versatile), then hold your ground in the middle area, and slowly expand out to the perimeter

[bitter shoal]

Well I ended up figuring out I needed to run up the stairs outside and kill the hell knights then fight some cacos. I wasn’t pistol starting though so I had the bfg

I am not trying to make this into a big deal I was saying the cyber demon part wasn’t the more dangerous part

[crystal hill]

I disagree, the cybers can cut through your health real quick

and they cant be killed quick in return if pistol starting

once you kill the arachnos in the room that you spawn in, you've got the map in the bag

[slate gyro]

Yo everyone, Harmony was baller (Weapons Factory map sucks hard tho). I'm now starting with Struggle: Antaresian Legacy, and looks promising

[crystal hill]

Yeah, I dont know what the creator was thinking, putting in a bunch of mini cyberdemons in a level with inadequate weaponry to fight them

[slate gyro]

My thoughts exactly, every other Centaur encounter was at least 10 times more enjoyable, even if they weren't that good

(most were cool tho)

[bitter shoal]

Oh Map 09 of Plutonia Revisited is by Tatsurd-cacocaco I love that channel

I took a break in the middle of it but I noticed it is going to be well of souls

[ruby dome]

Out now, Round 2 is a megawad of 33 maps by JGS for the official rerelease of Doom 64 that continues where Doom 64 left off. Choose "Watch Me Die!" difficulty if you want a serious challenge!

Doomworld Topic: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/155143/

[woven swallow]

yo, i sent you a dm of a list of doom wads, enjoy!

[crystal hill]

tatsurd's speedruns have been useful as video guides to some levels

plus, he's made some maps himself, most/all of them pretty good

If you haven't already, check out the Japanese Community Project which he headed

[bitter shoal]

I’ve seen him play one of the maps, I think I stopped because often times I feel like I’m spoiling stuff I feel like I should eventually play but I did contemplate how different building architecture choices translates to mapping

[crystal hill]

Unless it's an explicitly atmospheric map, I don't usually mind spoilers, for better or worse

I look up secrets regularly becuase i cant be bothered searching for them

[solemn socket]

what if one day you wake up and you're shackled in some kind of outer prison and you obtain freedom?

[long storm]

js beat doom 2,i have played for about 7 years and my dumbass figured out how to kill icon of sin

[wind cradle]

yeah in the doom community, doom ii's final boss is just kinda lazy.

[crystal hill]

you werent missing out on much for those 7 years

[wind cradle]

if you actually wanna have a better icon of sin fight, i recommend tnt

while its earlier levels can be lackluster, they did a good job of doing the icon of sin boss

[crystal hill]

dont remember it at all. Other than having a level before the Icon

[wind cradle]

the icon is not time based

like the other icon of sins, i could find the video of the playthrough

[crystal hill]

what do you mean by this?

[wind cradle]

you know how you have to wait till the pillar comes down, then rises and you have to time the rockets in the og? its nothing like this

[crystal hill]

Ah

I dont remember the icon fight in TNT very well. I dont remember TNT very well as a whole

[wind cradle]

it also has a puzzle in the beginning, just remember

https://youtu.be/PkvUw1wmc4Q?si=-jRH9CoAQs8eiMzu

oh wait i thought this was no commentary

[crystal hill]

16 mins? yikes, I can probably play it for myself faster

[wind cradle]

damnit

https://youtu.be/Jece3IXI5Rg?si=Dq2qgZpmaAHUE7T_

this ones better, no commentary

[crystal hill]

done

yeah, that Icon fight's better. But that's a low bar

the autoaim kept ruining my rocket shots at the end, which was a pain

[wind cradle]

yeah it can be clanky at times

but i like the idea tho

[crystal hill]

the level before it was...odd. Enemies all very spaced out, no real "fights" so much as a few skirmishes

other than that one cyberdemon you can BFG in the back when he starts to infight the cacos

[wind cradle]

ima try beating the final level in uv wish me luck

[crystal hill]

you can do it

[sharp wyvern]

I’m sorry you’re saying TNT’s Icon is better?

The one with the broken hitbox?

[crystal hill]

the one that makes you stand one stair below the platform you're supposed to shoot it from?

[wind cradle]

yeah i guess my opinion doesn't really stand here

[twin mortar]

I honestly always liked the DOOM II IoS fight simply because of the atmosphere and music. Opening section with the weapons is very nice

[wind cradle]

sure but playing it through again kind of sucks

[crystal hill]

I wouldnt call TNT's Icon of Sin level good, but it's competing with Doom II's. It's almost going to win by default if it doesnt have the raising and lowering platform

[crystal hill]

the music is nice and atmospheric, but unfortunately this is a videogame you need to play, and the gameplay is ass

[twin mortar]

Yeah the gameplay is iffy. Wouldn't say it's downright bad but it's not good

[crystal hill]

I dont like final levels that don't test you on the skills you have learned throughout the rest of the game

the best strat in the icon fight is to ignore as many monsters as possible, learn timing on a thing you have never used before, and use one weapon to achieve victory

[wind cradle]

spirit world is a better final level (map29)

[crystal hill]

you're thinking of the living end

and it sure is

[wind cradle]

fuck

but yeah, it kicks your ass alot

and thats what the final level should be

[crystal hill]

yeah, and not an 11th hour gimmick

[rare drum]

do yall know how to run doom 1 on the woof sourceport? ive tried but cant figure it out lol

[versed vortex]

Tf are these source port names

[rare drum]

idk

i think woofs named that cause mbf has helper dogs n stuff (woof is an MBF port)

[forest fjord]

breaking news new decino video dropped

[bitter shoal]

Gonna watch in a bit

[candid birch]

I just saw that and looks intresting. I don't think i've had that happen on official maps...

Or at least not that I RECALL...

[bitter shoal]

Well one of the softlock bugs isn't map specific and was fixed in source ports. I don't know if the floor raise problem happens on newer source ports with modern compatability settings though.

[native anchor]

Listen to this and tell me it doesn't sounds like PS1 Doom/Doom 64 music. https://youtu.be/VVNlveAtINc

[bitter shoal]

wtf it kind of does

why does Angry Birds have a track like that

[solemn socket]

what if one day you wake up and actually you dont wake up you get possessed

[bitter shoal]

Talk about needing to get your morning exorcise.

[bitter shoal]

and then john was the demons

[crystal hill]

makes sense that it sounds like this, considering where it plays

[wispy crown]

I think that's like having your soul pushed out and watching your body move on its own while you're a floating ghost nobody can see

[finite crag]

How bad would a Turbografx 16/PC Engine port of Doom 1 be?

[slate gyro]

Like, becoming a possessed from 2016? I would feel pretty bummed out due to turning into a literal zombie that is as expendable as demons can be, and whose only purpose is to pray at shrines to powerful demons or build gore nests (and be used to build one upon dying)

If you mean a zombie from classic Doom, well, PEW-PEW!

I'm not sure how I would do that, though, as I dunno how to fire a gun irl

(though I would love to)

[slate gyro]

Either those two options or what you said. Just like Dipper in that one episode of Gravity Falls

[crystal hill]

the PCE wasn't that bad. I'm sure you could make it playable

[twin mortar]

Angry Birds music can be such a crazy tonal shift from the gameplay

[solemn socket]

even if it did get into turbografx, i doubt it would get known, or the turbografx alone

[bitter shoal]

Considering both the genesis and snes needed external computation chips to run DOOM, probably not well although maybe someday homebrew geniuses might get a port running on base genesis since homebrew/demo scene often pushes games beyond what devs were doing during the system’s commercial life

[scenic yarrow]

Hello chat

https://tenor.com/view/doom-slayer-gif-11692212659956679229

[thorny nest]

Just curious has anyone experienced saving/loading issues with Doom + Doom II on steam deck? I’ve been playing TNT2, but my most recent save for it seems corrupted, as whenever I try to load it, the game just completely shuts off

[slate gyro]

I've been playing some community content recently and haven't encountered that. Like, does the game crash when you attempt to load those saves?

Only crash that happened to me was during my second day of playing Harmony. I selected the mod, got to hear a snippet of the menu theme, and the game crashed on me. Never happened again ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

[thorny nest]

Exactly, when I load the particular save for TNT2 (no other saves, they work fine), the game just closes as if I had exited it.

Tbh, I might just delete the save and start from an older save

[slate gyro]

Man, that sucks. I hope you haven't lost that much progress

[full mauve]

Anybody down to play coop on doom + doom 2? Im a bit new

[civic hornet]

hi

[solemn socket]

where is the anti-brutal doom technology

[vast reef]

hideous destructor

well does hdest even count as anti brutal doom

if anything it feels like the realism of brutal doom taken to the extreme

[shell remnant]

I had crashing issues with metro last light and stopped playing it as a result since I would have to redo an entire chapter to fix it

I still need to play through the doom 1 and 2 mods/dlc though

[cedar yacht]

Hi guys! Just wanted to say that someone should really make a map set in Ikea

[whole notch]

Agree

[fierce junco]

Loll

[solemn socket]

theres hd

THAT hd

not hdest

[bitter shoal]

I only got halfway through Hell Revealed when I played it years ago (I fell off at I think it was map 16 or 18), but I started watchinga commentated playthrough and lol someone in youtube comments started counting Barons in stages

[bitter shoal]

I forgot how much of a meme map 9 was watching it again. It is basically an Imp Rocketing Community Project map with no rocket launcher on it

[solemn socket]

what if one day you wake up and its not even remotely fair, and suddenly all chainsaws do pooping noises

[crystal hill]

it would either look ehh or take years of detailing to get right

[crystal hill]

I really hate it past the early maps. It is hard in the boring, unfun way of "can you shotgun 20 barons to death without quitting the game???"

[slate gyro]

Yo guys, what are your thoughts on Legacy of Rust? Personally I only really disliked Second Coming (its track is a banger though), and really enjoy how interesting the idea behind it all is, as Xaser said, Earth "invading" Hell

Also, my favorite levels have to be Sanguine Wastes and Soul Silo

[little oar]

Really cool expansion with really pretty levels! I think the flamethrower weapon has a really weird learning curve to it and I would've preferred they just kept the plasma gun over it tbh
Some of the demons look closer to Heretic monsters but that's not a bad thing, the Vassago is insanely cool

[slate gyro]

I honestly like the fuel weapons over the plasma ones. The incinerator can't be spammed at everything at any range, and the calamity blade feels more intuitive than the BFG's mechanic of dealing more damage the closer you're to your target, that I didn't know until I started to wonder why other people could two shot a Cyberdemon while it took me 10 shots or more

[little oar]

The blade being a charge weapon took a bit to figure out, I don't think the game ever tells you how it works so you just click once like every other weapon

[slate gyro]

I mean, you can try to see if it's automatic

Though, at first I thought you could only shoot it if you fully charged it. Dunno how I figured that this wasn't the case

[bitter shoal]

Having recently watched a speedrun of HR before this commentated series, I am pretty sure HR is the reason I hate barons of hell

[crystal hill]

Barons can be used really, really well

Malcom Sailor's Chord series gave me quite an appreciation for them

but when used wrong... urgh. They aren't hard to fight with even a smidge of open space. A noob could feasibly pistol a baron to death if there are no other obstacles around

which is the key to making them work. Make them blockers, that you cannot easily remove, to increase pressure and combo well with other demons (like arch viles, who are protected by them, or pinkies to take up more space and stop you from using rockets)

[bitter shoal]

“That is a DOOR WITH HEALTH”

[crystal hill]

essentially

[cloud talon]

I hope one day the unreleased exclusive level made for to show off the 3DO port gets released someday, that is if it still even exists

[crystal hill]

boy do I have some technically related news for you

[cloud talon]

Proof or it didn't happen

[crystal hill]

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Extramap.wad

[cloud talon]

Would you look at that

Still no FMVs though

[crystal hill]

hence why its technically related

[cloud talon]

The FMVs are not related

[cloud talon]

Something was recorded, although what that was is still a mystery

[bitter shoal]

I wonder if there is anyone that worked at Art Data Interactive or 3DO that has any recollection of what was actually portrayed in those FMVs

The community making their own FMVs based on that would be a good meme

[cloud talon]

They were shown at an event once

[sharp wyvern]

I really really love it

Probably my favourite official classic Doom wad

Also some of the best music in Doom

[slate gyro]

Facts! Favorite track from the expansion? Mine is "Bonk" (from Second Coming, aka E2M1)

[slate gyro]

For me is really tied with No Rest for the Living. The Earth Base is my favorite Doom map ever, not only because of Decino's track from the community midi pack, but also because of the way optional challenge is presented in a fair and rewarding way

Tomb of Malevolence sucks in my opinion tho, Brink is cooler

[sharp wyvern]

Ooh tough question but it'd probably either have to be "They're All Going To Laugh At You" (E1M5) or March of the Vespers (E2M6)

I do love Bonk though especially the Into Sandy's City part

[sharp wyvern]

Oh yeah NRFTL is also an amazing wad it has to be said

LoR is always gonna beat it out in my mind though just because it has more enemies and stuff

[sharp wyvern]

TBH I like the flamethrower, way riskier to use than plasma but it absolutely demolishes anything it touches

[slate gyro]

Really good choices. My second favorite track is tied between The Shores of Heaven and March of the Vespers. I really like the title of "They're All Going to Laugh at You", but haven't got a strong opinion on it, maybe I should listen to it more often

[sharp wyvern]

i just think the ending sounds real nice

also it being partly a midi cover of TOTTFIY is fun

LoR actually takes quite a bit from Eternal

[slate gyro]

I'm not familiar with that abbreviation. What does it stand for?

[sharp wyvern]

The Only Thing They Fear Is You

[slate gyro]

Shit, you're right, now I feel dumb

[sharp wyvern]

its ok :p

[sharp wyvern]

Tyrants, TOTTFIY, Calamity Blade being the Ballista attachment

[slate gyro]

I like to think the ballista attachment is based on the calamity blade, since Legacy of Rust canonically takes place before Eternal. I think Doomguy was like "Yo, this thing rocks!" and since he kinda made the ballista (very appropriate, his favorite weapon on Quake 3 was a railgun), he wanted to create something similar to that strange gun from a long time ago

I'm way too interested in the Doom lore, and I love how much one can speculate on it

[sharp wyvern]

yeah that would be fun

[left heron]

https://tenor.com/view/james-doakes-james-doakes-sus-face-james-doakes-suspicious-james-doakes-reaction-erik-king-gif-14404252364057104628

I know the type of man you are

[thorn jungle]

how did you even find that message, it was several months ago

and no, i do not play that mod.

[woven swallow]

Frostbite, I haven't seen you in ages and THIS is what I see first of you in awhile

[thorn jungle]

oh hi Kenny!!!!

[woven swallow]

Hello

Miss me?

[thorn jungle]

yeaa

did you know, Whitepine 8 is about to drop!

[woven swallow]

I did not know that

Thanks for reminding me

[thorn jungle]

check out Ivory's channel

[solemn socket]

did you know most people who say "but can it run doom" doesnt know the existance of tnt evilution, plutonia, doom 2 and chex(R) quest?!

[slate gyro]

I mean, I'm sure there's some guy out there who thinks classic Doom is a Doom Eternal fan game

Or doesn't know Classic Doom is a thing at all

[woven swallow]

That....that hurts....

[little oar]

Considering how often I've had it happen where I talk about DOOM and people automatically assume I mean 2016 and I have to clarify otherwise, that doesn't sound surprising
What a scary timeline we're in

[slate gyro]

I once saw a meme that went like "Doom Eternal's community when they find a Helltaker fan" or something along those lines, and was like "But there's more than 1 Doom game...". And that was before I was into Doom to begin with

[twin mortar]

I mean the Eternal side of the community is quite different from the rest

[slate gyro]

Really? Explain plz

[twin mortar]

Pretty much all the unfunny jokes originate from them lol

And some of them unfortunately love to be like "DOOM 3 is the worst DOOM game ever, yes of course I didn't play it"

Which aren't attributes you can really give to any other subcommunity here

[slate gyro]

Damn, I didn't know that

Though I'm pretty sure the guy who posted the meme I'm talking about wasn't a Doom player at all. I don't quite remember why, but my guts, HUGE GUTS, tell me that he didn't know a thing about razing hell

Where's the "huge guts" Doomguy emoji?

[little oar]

And don't forget the "Doomguy did all this because of his rabbit" joke -.-

The most frustrating/annoying one of them all

[twin mortar]

Joke? 😭

People say this stuff seriously yknow

[little oar]

I'm trying so desperately to give them the benefit of the doubt here

Let me have this

[slate gyro]

Oh, so you mean the top comments that are at the top of almost every Doom OST video I listen to? Yeah,I don't see how anyone can find those jokes funny

[little oar]

Yeah, those

[crystal hill]

Why is this surprising?

a very many people do not care for Doom. They know it as that old game people make hahas with by running it on beans or whatever

sequels or expansion packs for it do not matter to them. Which is fine, no one has to like everything

[slate gyro]

Fair enough, but not knowing that the OG Doom is a thing is pretty disappointing

Like, 2016 wasn't the first Doom game

[crystal hill]

people dont much care for history

new game is out, yay, I like new game

[slate gyro]

I guess you're right, even if it's sad

[crystal hill]

At least they don't know Doom at all

I get overly annoyed with people who know Doom just for the popular, mainstream headline grabbing WADs

yooo, have you played Myhouse? Myhouse is sooooo good

I recognise that these WADs have gotten more people into Doom proper, which is nice, but hearing that and total conversion mods be all people know of Doom gives me false hope for conversation

[maiden tendon]

i don't even remember what got me into doom lmao

[crystal hill]

I'm 100% certain it was Civvie11's videos on them that got me started

[slate gyro]

Is it, actually? It's kind of a meme at this point. Everyone talks about it everywhere but just about how you run around the house for several hours. Is that fun?

[maiden tendon]

i think one of my friends told me to play eternal, somehow beat it on a nintendo switch with insane joycon drift and then i played the originals

[slate gyro]

I've heard the Switch port is actually crazy good for, you know, being a Switch port. Joycon drift sounds like a pain tho

[crystal hill]

joycon drift ruins everything

beating Eternal with that being a factor is very impressive

[maiden tendon]

i've played all of the games except for the dark ages because i haven't bought it yet but i plan to, and doom 3 because i don't like horror but i'm gonna build up the courage to play it 😭

[crystal hill]

Doom 3 isn't really that scary, some atmospheric moments and jumpscares aside

you're well armed enough to tackle all the frights the game can throw at ya

[maiden tendon]

yeah i should be alright

[maiden tendon]

the classics are my favourite though, love the new ones but i feel like there's way too many mechanics to remember and it fries my brain

[slate gyro]

@maiden tendon Do you like Doom 64?

[maiden tendon]

i actually pre-ordered eternal so i got doom 64 for free with it

yeah it's awesome

[crystal hill]

Doom Eternal gets overwhelming near the start, but give it time and everything manages to click

[maiden tendon]

i'm actually playing through eternal right now

finished the main campaign for the 2nd time yesterday and beat TAG 1 today

gonna start TAG 2 tomorrow

[crystal hill]

you're through the hardest parts now

[slate gyro]

It's my favorite classic Doom game. It's soundtrack is very good for reading horror

[maiden tendon]

i love the atmosphere of doom 64

[little oar]

The groans that play in my head when people mention playing brutal doom as if it's some QoL must have wad

[slate gyro]

I know right? It does actually feel like you're Doomguy during a phase of PTSD fighting resurrected demons that absolutely hate you for killing them before. You're not hyped and absolutely invincible like in the new games, and I love that

[slate gyro]

Wanted to respond to that

[maiden tendon]

brutal doom is fun but i could not do a full playthrough with it

usually just do like one level

[crystal hill]

Having, uh, actually played it, I can certainly see the appeal. But playing a level in Brutal Doom is vastly unlike playing it with normal Doom gameplay

[maiden tendon]

then i get bored

[little oar]

It's a neat mod for sure but it also screams "teenager discovers what gore is and tries to shove as much of it into whatever they can"
Just way too overblown and bloated imo

[crystal hill]

it fundamentally changes Doom as a game in a lot of ways

[maiden tendon]

i just can't really get behind gzdoom in general

apart from modding i don't use it

[slate gyro]

Could you elaborate? The only thing I know about brutal Doom is that is gorey. I didn't know it changed stuff

[crystal hill]

new weapons, new enemies

[little oar]

Different weapons as well

[crystal hill]

it includes a lot of movement changes (you're expected to jump, use mouselook, crouch, etc)

[crystal hill]

I use it as a semi purist because the quality of life features it offers are too good to pass up

plus, I often play things that require GZDoom (like Golden Souls 1 and 2). So it would be rather inconvenient to keep switching source ports

[little oar]

Gzdoom was my goto until the new ports released which became the new goto because I'm not spending half a hour shifting through the menu trying to make it look presentable

[maiden tendon]

i usually just use crispy doom or dsda doom or woof

the new ports are good too

[crystal hill]

If you download ZDL, you can organise your wad list real nicely

[slate gyro]

Alright, thx @crystal hill @little oar

[little oar]

I have ZDL
I meant for the graphical stuff

[crystal hill]

I see

[little oar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1246106122566373407/1273014328223731742/attachment.gif

[crystal hill]

mine keeps settings between play sessions, so no need to tweak eeverything more than once

[maiden tendon]

this is so true

i hate how when you initally boot up gzdoom it gives you the ugliest settings by default

[crystal hill]

not a good first impression, unfortunately

[little oar]

I found some guide that was a step by step process on how to make it look the best which....I don't think you should have to do for a port but whatever

[maiden tendon]

should look good straight out of the box

[little oar]

Exactly

[maiden tendon]

also it's an incredibly minor nitpick but the blood splatters on the walls when you shoot demons

[little oar]

Which is also annoying when people try to get into DOOM and every suggests "oh just use Gzdoom"

Like talk about a horrible first impression

[crystal hill]

it's a valid criticism, but it's worth sticking through with it imo

[little oar]

For the sake of super big wads or conversions it's nice to have around but it shouldn't be the main way to play it imo

[maiden tendon]

i think i'm a bit of a purist because it drives me insane

[little oar]

Use something like Woof! when applicable and save gzdoom for the conversion stuff

Setting up Gzdoom is an inevitability
At some point you're going to have to trudge through it so you may as well do it near the start, just not at the start

[crystal hill]

a lot of GZDoom features I dont notice, because I've used it for so long

the blood on the walls feels natural to me, for example

[thorny nest]

Anytime I have to set up gzdoom for whatever reason, my first instinct is to immediately turn off texture filtering

[crystal hill]

the weapons being thrown in the air and then dropping is more questionable, but it doesnt impact gameplay, so I'm fine with it

[maiden tendon]

i don't know the little changes just annoy me i have no clue why because they're not even that big of an issue

[crystal hill]

to each their own, I suppose

whatever enables us to play Doom the way we want to

[maiden tendon]

yeah, that's what i like about the classic games

there's so much variety in how you can play them

you can be a strict purist and play it vanilla in chocolate doom or you can slap 500 mods onto it in gzdoom

[crystal hill]

Plutonia 2 is a vanilla compatible wad, and my favourite of the bunch

stuff like Alien Vendetta and Epic 2 rate highly on my list of favourite wads also

[maiden tendon]

i need to play some custom stuff, i've only really stuck to the official wads

[crystal hill]

be warned, the vast majority of custom wads are tougher than ID's stuff

even Plutonia feels like a breather compared to some stuff

[slate gyro]

What do you think about Harmony @crystal hill?

Or anyone, I asked him because he was talking about wads

[crystal hill]

it's a gemstone in the rough

not quite a diamond, but a wad I quite enjoyed, despite a lot of problems

[slate gyro]

Yo, now I remember, you already told me

[crystal hill]

indeed I did

[slate gyro]

I'm definitely developing amnesia

[crystal hill]

still recommend playing it

[slate gyro]

I played it and was blown away. Level 6 sucks tho

[crystal hill]

the weapons depot place?

[slate gyro]

Yup

"Mmm, I'll just spam centaurs I'm sure it will be fun "

Every other map, even when hard, is rewarding and enjoyable, Weapons Factory is torture

Also, the laser point explosives never broke when I shot them, so I had to tank them

[crystal hill]

I presume you were playing the old zdoom version?

[slate gyro]

No, the revisited version available at Doom + Doom 2

[crystal hill]

Ahh. I dont know why that happened then

[slate gyro]

Yeah, at first I was like "I guess this is supposed to limit my health and keep encounters tense". Then, I watched a video where the guy deactivated it from a distance, I attempted to do the same, nothing ever happened

[crystal hill]

I thought Harmony had a sequel of sorts, but I appear to be mistaken

[slate gyro]

It got two additional levels that you play after Echidna, they're cool, just like the rest of the game

I dunno when or why, but they weren't in the original release

Still grateful about them

[crystal hill]

probably added in later

[twin mortar]

Whiplash man

I made this gif ages ago

[little oar]

It's a very good gif

[crystal hill]

The creator made a few new versions of it in the past few years, which explains the extra content

[slate gyro]

It's nice to see he is still involved with his creation

Also, bless him for changing the sound effects. The squealing of the beastlings dying was way too loud and obnoxious for me

I forgot about another "glitch", the critters (baby beastlings) didn't attack me at any point, they just bumped into me when I heard they are supposed to bite you. I don't know if it's an intentional change, as it doesn't feel that far-fetched

[bitter shoal]

I wanted to say Map 09 of Plutonia Revisited felt the most like a Plutonia 2 map despite the encounter design not really being like most Plutonia 2 maps and it referencing Realm.

[cloud furnace]

someone can pls help me? :(
i want to change DOOM 1 + 2 menu font
there is any easy way to do that? any mod?

nvm i figured it out, sorry

[fierce junco]

Any tips? I really like the classic games but im not that good at them tbh :/

[bitter shoal]

Just keep playing and you don't have to select ultra violence difficulty (although I think most players probably could for DOOM 1/2 due to modern controls being standardized, Plutonia and SIGIL are where it gets difficult on Ultra Violence though but is good for players that are used to DOOM 1/2)

[fierce junco]

Oh, ok lol im on Hey Not Too Rough and im still having trouble

[bitter shoal]

oof I accidentally deleted my GZDOOM VR folder last night, that is annoying

wait

no I didn't

I apparently somehow copied my DOOM folder and pasted it into itself

and never realized until now

[cloud furnace]

guys, whats your favorite WAD?
i love legacy of rust and no rest for the living :D

[bitter shoal]

Either Scythe or Plutonia 2

Is "Will You Be my NME" meant to be Plutonia Revisited's Hunted? If so it is the best map 11 of the three Plutonia wads I've played so far.

[sharp wyvern]

LoR my beloved

[crystal hill]

Auger Zenith, Plutonia 2 and Going Down

in that order

[little oar]

Plutonia Experiment no contest
If we're allowed to consider Final DOOM as much of an official game as DOOM 1 than it'd be my favorite DOOM game (tied with 3) for the Plutonia Experiment half alone

[crystal hill]

if he meant official wads, Plutonia has my vote as well

[bitter shoal]

I don’t have access to legacy of rust but plutonia and SIGIL + 2 are the best official wads otherwise.

Plutonia is amazingly a rush job but only has like one bad map, every other map only has bad parts of good maps

The Casali brothers got to curate their own product pretty well, no yellow keys randomly being removed in the release product

[crystal hill]

perhaps because there were only the two of them, they knew what maps to put where, and what maps they wanted to make in general

[hexed escarp]

Eviternity definitely

Eviternity 2 and scythe 2 are both a close second

[crystal hill]

You dont have doom on steam?

[bitter shoal]

I have the iwads from a disc store bought years ago

[crystal hill]

Fair enough

Damn, link got nuked

[bitter shoal]

It’s called The Ultimate DOOM Trilogy Collector's Edition

[median cloud]

Never finished Eviternity 2 but did finish Eviternity 1

Probably my favorite wad

Actually havent finished a lot of wads

[crystal hill]

Eviternity's probably the highest profile wad I've never played

ignoring myhouse.wad

[slate gyro]

Great choices, those are also my favorites

[cloud furnace]

i see, i like plutonia too

[cloud furnace]

never heard about this one, cool

[cloud furnace]

new content and cool map design
very fun to play

[woven skiff]

(-_-)

Hye
Bye

[slate gyro]

What's your favorite Doom map? Mine is The Earth Base due to it's really cool design that features an optional second half of the level that rewards you with the super shotgun, being both challenging and fair while also meaningful

Also, Decino's track rules. Shame none from the midi pack are on Doom + Doom 2

[cloud furnace]

im not sure, i dont think much about the map i like the most

[median cloud]

For all the classic mappacks? Hmmm

Ultimate Doom: E2M6 or E4M6
Doom 2: Map 27
TNT: Map 07
Plutonia: Map 32
NRFTL: Map 04

[woven skiff]

Really

[cloud furnace]

yea

[woven skiff]

Creepy

[slate gyro]

Damn, it's really interesting to see someone having a level from Thy Flesh Consumed as one of their favorites. Most people just hate this expansion (in my opinion, deservingly, to some degree)

Do you have a favorite Doom 64 map?

[median cloud]

Never played it fully (or maybe only once) but purely from aesthetics and vibe I need to go with that void map. Map 31

[median cloud]

Eh I think Inferno is worse than Thy Flesh Consumed. Shores of Hell needed to grow on me as well

Actually my favorite Ultimate Doom map is probably E1M3 now that I think about it

[slate gyro]

That's also one of my favorites, alongside Altar of Pain and Pitfalls, though I vibe with most Doom 64 maps

[bitter shoal]

I hadn't played it in awhile but I remember favoring E4M2 and then the mapset difficulty plummetted off a cliff, I think it made me think the maps were more poorly made than they actually were because of that

[median cloud]

There's also a map I vaguely remember that has lots of Mancubi and Arachnotrons at the start

[median cloud]

E4M6 is still considered pretty hard but by then you're way more stacked on ammo

[bitter shoal]

I never finished Episode 4 so I probably didn't get to Map 6

[slate gyro]

Really iconic, but I don't like it that much. I like Doom 2 better due to the enemy variety, I feel like in Doom 1 you face off against the same enemies way too often

[median cloud]

I like E4, I prefer it over E3. Honestly think House of Pain is the only E3 map I like

[slate gyro]

I think it's likely Even Simpler, a Dead Simple reference

[bitter shoal]

I agree. People really hate on DOOM 2's weaker maps but they are better than DOOM 1's weaker maps because of just having better variety and gaps between damage and enemy values being filled

[median cloud]

True, you notice this a lot in E2 and E3 just being blasted with tedious fights with tough monsters.
E1 doesn't have this despite a higher average monster count the enemies are lower level and that causes less tedious fights

But I personally prefer Doom 2 as well, which is an unpopular opinion ahah

[bitter shoal]

Also the biggest problem with DOOM 2's worst maps is really just being ugly, a lot of them still play fine

[slate gyro]

The Chasm can't be defended though

[bitter shoal]

Though sometimes Sandy Petersen will focus on one part of the map and go extra on detail for some reason

[slate gyro]

But yeah, I think you're right for the most part. One would expect Hell on Earth to look a bit cooler, not necessarily pretty, but nicer to the eyes

[slate gyro]

Really? I thought people rolled with Doom 2 and could admit that it's better than the original

If only for a slight margin

[median cloud]

Nah Doom 2 was seen as a sequel not offering a lot.

Also The Chasm rules lol

[slate gyro]

Why? It was a headache for me

[median cloud]

I just like the environment

It's also a tougher map I suppose

Can't really explain why I like the maps that I like but I do like the chasm

The Chasm, Gotcha, Monster Condo. I even like map 21 Nirvana and that map gets a ton of hate

[slate gyro]

I mean, I respect it, but classic Doom doesn't have the best platforming

[slate gyro]

I love Nirvana too

[median cloud]

My least favorite Doom 2 map is probably the spirit world or the pit

[bitter shoal]

I think there is a lot of bias towards DOOM 1 because Episode 1 is filled almost entirely with John Romero levels and that ended up carrying people's perception of the game, but DOOM 1 has its own stinkers a lot of them in Episode 3.

[median cloud]

True it's funny how the shareware version is the best Doom 1 has to offer

[slate gyro]

Unholy Cathedral, was it? The map with the teleporters. Best example of a horrible Doom 1 map in my opinion

[median cloud]

Legit my least favorite Doom map of all time

It used to be the citadel but on replay I've started hating Unholy Cathedral more than the citadel

[bitter shoal]

I think I remember liking that really open ended map with the FIRBLU building

[median cloud]

I think I made a Doom map tier list some time agp

[bitter shoal]

pretty sure that was a Sandy map too. He was cooking city levels before we were ready

[median cloud]

Mt. Erebus?

[bitter shoal]

I believe so yeah

[slate gyro]

It's a baller map. I absolutely love it

What do you think about the giant hand map?

[median cloud]

Ah I cant post my tier list in here

[bitter shoal]

I think I remember being okay with that one, only later did I find out it was one of the most hated maps

Amalgoom has a much better version of it of course

[median cloud]

Slough of despair?

its tedious and bad

[slate gyro]

I don't know, I don't remember the name. Just thought the hand thing was really cool

[slate gyro]

Damn. I never had an strong opinion on it

[median cloud]

Command Center is also a map I heavily dislike in E2

The one with the double barons on pillars

[bitter shoal]

I think what I liked about Slough of Despair was really the rock texture gave it a lot of visual identity and a sense of what kind of place it was, even as a map where the gimmick is being hand shaped

[slate gyro]

I'm actually having problems remembering most of these maps and have to look them up

Well, some of them

[bitter shoal]

Okay so...

you know how SIGIL map names are like

The Bowels of Endless Torment and stuff like that

[slate gyro]

Yeah, extremely edgy

[bitter shoal]

If Romero's map in DOOM 2, Abandoned Mines, was called literally anything else that was more interesting, it would be known as a classic. But it is kind of just not regarded.

[slate gyro]

I absolutely love Abandoned Mines, and find it interesting that demons are mining for something

"When all are edgy, none shall be" or whatever Syndrome said

[median cloud]

Ive grown to like TNT a lot more over the years

It was my most hated mappack for a good while

[bitter shoal]

I got the impression that the actual plot of DOOM 2 is that Doomguy had to keep going underground to find the Icon of Sin deep underneath. The game never says this, but all of the level themes point towards that idea

[slate gyro]

But in the end screen it says that the Icon destroyed untold kilometers of Hell upon crashing onto the ground. You suggest it caused an earthquake?

But, interesting headcanon

[bitter shoal]

I never finished TNT either. Watching videos of it recently it didnt' look like something interesting to play and a lot of the level visuals just feel like they touch a bad nerve and I don't like them. Meanwhile I am watching Hell Revealed levels and the first several levels before the mapset becomes completely unhinged looked kind of like TNT but doesn't rub me the wrong way if that makes sense

I think it might be because TNT loves using that really shiny metal texture

[median cloud]

TNT maps have a lot of puzzles to them imo. If you go through a map on your first try you will be stuck a bit and I absolutely loathe having to look for an exit in a doom map

It's why I hated e2m6 for as long as I did

But replaying it when knowing where to go changed my perspective on most maps

[bitter shoal]

Speaking of Hell Revealed going completely unhinged

Map 7 of it was basically Slough of Despair but ACTUALLY one of the worst maps I've ever played

[median cloud]

I played HR until map 26 I quit there

[bitter shoal]

Map 16 was when I fell off

[median cloud]

Ohh I actually like 16

[bitter shoal]

Map 16 probably wouldn't be that bad for me nowadays

Dunno if I want to return to HR just for the sake of it though

[bitter shoal]

Does Hell Revealed ever start giving you rocket ammo

[median cloud]

No clue I played HR years ago

[bitter shoal]

It always seemed like it uses Hell Knights and Barons the same way Plutonia used Chaingunners and Revenants

[median cloud]

Pistol started it as well

[woven skiff]

Ithought thats not work

[median cloud]

Wdym?

[woven skiff]

About pistols

[bitter shoal]

oh pistol starting means starting a map without the ammo and health you brought from the previous one

[woven skiff]

Yep that what I say about

[median cloud]

I'm not sure I'm following you, you can just change map to a random map and pistol start it

[woven skiff]

Okie I am trying

[bitter shoal]

I need to start pistol starting maps just for discussion's sake

[woven skiff]

Okay....

[median cloud]

It can be rough honestly

Often time I don't finish a mappack because I'm stuck at a certain map and don't feel like trying it over and over again

I don't save mid level either so

[bitter shoal]

That is probably the biggest reason I hadn't been pistol starting

I want to be able to complete the map packs in a reasonable time frame, and I am a very slow player

[median cloud]

Yeah sometimes I should swallow my pride and save midlevel probably

[bitter shoal]

Ah I am bad about save abuse as well

[median cloud]

I've been playing some modded Doom but am stuck on a specific map as well

[median cloud]

if I save abuse I always do it inbetween fights

so I do finish specific fights in one go

That's how I tackle maps that I find too large

[bitter shoal]

I do try to save after I lose health, unless I take damage from something really avoidable.

ANd I tend to want to replay parts to do them better

[hexed escarp]

You should play it, it is absolutely incredible

The environment, the visuals, the combat, and the music are all excellent

[cloud furnace]

ok, i will try it

i can install it on the addons menu?

btw, i want to play doom online with my dad, we are not even in the same state so local isnt possible, i need to buy doom in his steam account?

[hexed escarp]

yeah i believe it is available on the official port

eviternity 2 is not tho because there were some compatibility issues

[cloud furnace]

i see

[hexed escarp]

for eviternity 2, you would have to play it on a source port

which i would honestly recommend anyways

its overall a better experience than the official version

the only downside is that you dont get quite as nice of a menu for launching mods/maps, you have to do it manually, but its not that bad

and multiplayer is a bit more difficult to get working

[hexed escarp]

yeah you would

[cloud furnace]

ok, thx

[hexed escarp]

The biggest downside of the official version imo is it butchers the music of custom maps

Because they weren't legally allowed to use the standard midi sounds that everyone is used to, so they used a different soundfont that sounds way worse. The only reason the base game music is fine is because they just recorded them to MP3 files with the original sounds because they are allowed to do that

If you want to try a source port, I can recommend this one
https://github.com/fabiangreffrath/woof

It can find the wads from your steam version

It's better in pretty much every aspect, except multiplayer is a bit trickier to set up

[crystal hill]

but chaingunners and revenants are at least comparatively less tanky

and chaingunners give you chainguns, which are very nice to have

also plutonia is just better designed

[bitter shoal]

That is my point, barons and hell knights are what HR loves spamming lol

[crystal hill]

it would be one thing if it gave you adequate guns to take them down

a rocket launcher and a few boxes can make groups of barons tolerable

[bitter shoal]

They definitely do not do that for some of the earlier levels

[woven swallow]

....

hello

[golden shore]

[woven swallow]

hello

[woven skiff]

(-_-)

This chat is always hang

Or maybe thats a glicth

[crystal hill]

aloha

[bitter shoal]

hi there

[minor flint]

Hi

[crystal hill]

anyone playing anything good recently?

[bitter shoal]

Been busy working on my map stuff

[woven swallow]

struggle: antaresian legacy is good

[woven swallow]

no ones interested in classic doom

[woven skiff]

Thats what i think so

[woven swallow]

anything you want to talk about?

[woven skiff]

Do you have a topic

[woven swallow]

sourceports and custom maps i guess

[woven skiff]

Okay

Custom maps

[woven swallow]

hang on, are you new around here?

[woven skiff]

Hmm...... what made you think that

[woven swallow]

do you play on pc?

[woven skiff]

Yep

[woven swallow]

are you new to doom?

[woven skiff]

What you think am i

[woven swallow]

[golden shore]

👌

[woven skiff]

No

[crystal hill]

making progress with that?

[crystal hill]

I tried playing it once, it didn't click with me

I'm going to play it again at some point, though

[bitter shoal]

yeah, started a new map and made some progress after I scrapped an old one with a giant startan wall

[crystal hill]

what kind of map will it be?

[bitter shoal]

I decided not to change the visual theme, I just wanted a better process. You can see a screenshot of the scrapped map I posted that has the startan wall I forgot about

[crystal hill]

I saw it, yeah

[bitter shoal]

Finally did something other than messing with my map and playing games that aren't DOOM and did a few Plutonia 2 levels. Finished playing Will You Be My NME. Plutonia 2 had the best Hunted layout and visuals but Plutonia Revisited's Hunted map had the best gameplay since it had more than just archviles alone. Map 12 was called Velocity, cause Speed. Probably easier than the actual Speed map now that I think about it. I thought the Plutonia 2 Map 15 reference was funny, at least it wasn't just Plutonia 1 being copied/referenced.

And map 13 seemed short so I knocked it out real quick as well.

[bitter shoal]

I like how map 13 ||had a much more nasty Archvile use than most actual Archvile focused maps||

[solemn socket]

what if one day you wake up and you're Player start 2

[crystal hill]

I can see why Plut 2's exclusively arch vile map wouldn't appeal as much, but it's an excellent test of your arch vile combat skills, almost like no other. The only thing it's missing is the arch vile's resurrection mechanic, but that's just not possible with only archies

Something Arch Violence does tremendously is atmosphere. When you suck hard at the game (like I used to, and to a lesser extent do now), the arch vile idle noises sound like they're mocking you, demoralising you further, it's great

there's enough quiet moments for you to appreciate that

[bitter shoal]

I think the problem with both hunted and Arch Violence is that they overstayed their welcome, because the atmosphere and horror aspect only lasts for so long before it wears off.

[crystal hill]

Hunted is far shorter than Arch Violence

so the length of it isn't really a problem, imo. It's how finicky the doors are and how mazey the level is

it sort of synergises with the enemies (makes you more scared/paranoid), but once most or all of them are dead, you are just left with frustration

[bitter shoal]

I think it can be shorter than Arch Violence and still overstay the welcome, largely because of how the level navigation works

[crystal hill]

that, I can agree with

I reckon the Casalis made it finicky so you can't just run away and cheese the level, you have to stand and fight

but surely there could be better ways of doing this

[odd scarab]

Hey guys could anyone help guide me on how to get my copy of doom 64 onto my anbernic rg406v? I’m aware I need to download it onto my computer and transfer it to my handheld. I just want to know if anyone can give me a quick and easy guide on how to do so. Google and ai are a pain in the buns

Forgot to add. I bought doom 64 off of steam.

[crystal hill]

Ahh. I don't think that would be possible

The Steam version of Doom 64 is not a Nintendo 64 game, it is a remaster

so you can't simply drag and drop it into a retro console and have it play

[odd scarab]

Right so I’m using a gzdoom source port app called delta touch from open touch gaming

[crystal hill]

Doom 64 does not run in GZDoom

You might have more luck with Doom 64EX, if your console can run it

[odd scarab]

Delta touch comes with multiple engines to run doom1-2, 64, and doom 3. So far I’ve been able to run those except 64 and 3. Just purchased 64 so I can.

It comes with doom 64ex

[crystal hill]

well, I don't think I can help you further then

[odd scarab]

Lol dang. I’m not very tech savvy myself

[woven skiff]

Me too

Hye (-_-)

[sick wagon]

Hey guys, I came here quickly just to ask if anyone is interested in helping me with the delta touch? Would someone have my trust to log into the account and then log out so I can have the app for free?

I already have more and a previous version, I wanted to play my house.wad

[odd scarab]

K so I got doom64 from gog to work on delta touch after I bought it. It was a challenge getting it set up lol. I got lunar revelations 2.0, ethereal breakdownexplus and doom absolution ‘mods’ to work too. But I feel like it’s lacking a whole lot compared to doom 2 mods and total conversions. I keep trying to find more but nothing else seems to work besides the ones I mentioned. Can anyone point me to the right sources for mods for doom64explus? Or did people just give up on modding it?

[coarse lotus]

Opinion on a headcanon to where the ‘93 UAC used (90’s sci fi) ai to generate rock music for “productivity” at the nuclear waste site?

[little oar]

Do you mean like the music you hear in stages is coming from actual speakers within UAC?

[crystal hill]

doubt the UAC would use rock music

it'd be the generic corporate elevator music type, or the least memorable motivational music you've ever heard

[little oar]

Walmart music

[coarse lotus]

I mean from the helmets of the marines stationed there

[little oar]

Ah
Don't see why not. Seems like a harmless fun headcanon

[bitter shoal]

DOOM takes place far enough in the future that all of the 90s rock music is just someone playing them on the oldies station

[left heron]

[solemn socket]

does Chex® Quest counts as classic doom?

[bitter shoal]

yes

[crystal hill]

No, it counts as Doom 3

[woven skiff]

Hmmm.....😄

[versed vortex]

episode 4 is killing me

[vast reef]

not even oldies anymore thats downright classical

[slate gyro]

Yeah... Most positive things Thy Flesh Consumed has going for it are the level names. Levels, that are sometimes too easy or too hard or cryptic. A level in specific was the bane of my existence, not mentioning it to not spoil you

[hexed escarp]

wasnt there some old instruction manual that was like "doom takes place in 2022" or something like that

[bitter shoal]

https://tenor.com/view/harvey-birdman-jetsons-attorney-at-law-2002-far-off-year-of2002-gif-25566202

"The magical far off year of 2002!"

Like I said in General, Thy Flesh Consumed starts with two very ahrd levels then the difficulty plummets. Map 1 would incidentally be completely fixed by having fewer Barons of course

Map 2 I remember being good though, it and abandoned mines felt like blueprints of what SIGIL would be like

[versed vortex]

i have already beaten it so ik you're probably referencing e4m6

[vast reef]

romero said that was in the snes manual that rhey didnt write lol

its just a Very Far Into The Future kinda deal yk

[versed vortex]

yea e4m2 is one of my favorites of all of the ultimate doom

i've completely forgotten about e4m5 and e4m7

e4m9 is cool

[slate gyro]

The one with the Cyberdemon and the lava pit?

That's the one I was referring to

[versed vortex]

yea

like at least you can telefrag the cyberdemon in e4m2

[high haven]

I wonder how the missing monsters in doom 64 would have looked like if they werent Scrapped

(Apart from Dr psysy’s designs)

[twin mortar]

E4M6 is my favorite level from all of UDOOM

[crystal hill]

I hate sniping cyberdemons, so E4M6 is the opposite of what my cup of tea would be

damaging floors with a small number of rad suits is also a black mark on a level

[twin mortar]

I have weird taste anyway

[crystal hill]

I have a soft spot for E4M1 because I am a sadist

(but it has fewer cyberdemons and damaging floors)

[slate gyro]

Yeah, or even run past him

[slate gyro]

The hell hound is already in some fan expansions, the succubus not at all as far as I know. I wonder what she'd do

[mystic smelt]

More like… JURASSIC DOOM!! Ha!1

[cloud talon]

How come nightdive didnt include any of the console ports in their doom remaster like they did with quake

[thorny nest]

They included console ports in quake?

[stiff basalt]

Quake 64

[solemn socket]

what if one day you wake up and you DSPLDETH

[crystal hill]

I guess they didnt have enough new maps to justify it?

I'd like to play them someday, but I dont want to slog my way through PS1Doom

[cloud talon]

I dont think quake 64 actually changed anything

Its just quake but blurry

Jaguar dooms maps are all different enough to be interesting

[crystal hill]

Why did they include Quake 64 if theres no different content?

[twin mortar]

Easy port I guess

It's an add-on anyway so it doesn't need to be held up to full campaign standards. Just a bonus

[bitter shoal]

is it an actual port or emulated?

[twin mortar]

It's just the base Quake remastered campaign but with a filter on and alternate music

Maybe some altered levels but looks to be native

[bitter shoal]

oh so it is just a Quake mod then?

[bitter shoal]

I just looked at a video comparison, I'm guessing what happened is that they felt fewer changes could be made to try and pass off the PC version as a 64 version, although I'm not convinced because it looks like the actual 64 version changed the lighting to resemble DOOM 64's aesthetic choices.

Playstation DOOM has an updated engine that supports colored lighting effects and I guess and they couldn't just use the lighting in vanilla DOOM and call it the same like they could with Quake which has more complex lighting already and they likely didn't want to write engine specific code to add in the colored lighting effects and make sure they are approximately correct.. maybe they also didn't have access to the playstation map files to do that with either

Anyway judging by that video I saw it looked like the 64 version was indeed just playing PC with mouse and keyboard controls, and IIRC there was a ZDOOM mod that recreated Playstation DOOM (I think there were multiple mods actually?) if that is what you want and not a truly authentic experience and a release that preserves the game.

[twin mortar]

Yeah it's part of the add-on selection

[crystal hill]

I've been interested in playing that some day. That being said, I've been slacking because the levels probably wont be spectacular

More so wanting to play them for my own curiousity, like the Xbox Doom levels

[solemn socket]

how does doomguy remove his 2 gloves in 1 second?

[crystal hill]

its a videogame

[solemn socket]

ITS UNRELISTIC!!!! /j

[icy umbra]

It’s a damn game

Also cause he is doomguy

[solemn socket]

for future: /j means /joking

[icy umbra]

Blud put it there after he got ”flamed”

[solemn socket]

i edited it before you sent a message

[icy umbra]

Cap

[solemn socket]

how can you tell?

[icy umbra]

It was not there when I posted brolio

I gotta a screenshot

Trust

[little oar]

He tightens his fists and the resulting tightening of skin around bone causes the gloves to rip off instantly

[slate gyro]

That sounds painful

[little oar]

He fights through hell for a living he gets used to it

[cloud talon]

it would have been cool if nightdive put in the doom betas for the remaster like they did with quake 2

[cloud talon]

The soundtrack is different and the geometry in the levels is slightly simplified

It also doesn't have the hub area and a few levels are missing

Oh and water looks different

[crystal hill]

sounds like barely enough change to be worth including

[dark cargo]

and now its on my calculator

[vast reef]

the west and their cultural appropriation

/j means /jesus and was used by christians in heavily muslim areas to communicate their faith discreetly

[bitter shoal]

That is interesting actually

And /jk or /s is what people usually do to convey they aren’t serious so it is easy to avoid misuse of /j just to be safe

[mighty walrus]

can you leave that out of here? This is a Doom server

[rare drum]

I think he's just going into detail about the /j meaning idk

[mighty walrus]

Yeah I can read that. I'm just saying this isn't the place and it's not that deep if someone says j as in joking. We don't need the alternate meaning since it was harmless.

[crystal hill]

is this not a joke?

[somber rose]

/j means joking and was used in the Reddit community.

No religion is ever mentioned.

So stop inserting your religious expletive into something non-religious, psionicflash.

[azure nimbus]

Quick google search, I couldn't find even a reference to it. If you have some primary documentation or a news report or even a reference, I'd be grateful for you to share that with me. You can just dm it. Even if there isn't evidence of the claim being true, I want to know where the claim originated.

[high minnow]

at dooms gate for this man

[twin mortar]

@azure nimbus It's a joke

[azure nimbus]

Thus the invention of the /j tag I suppose

[solemn socket]

what if one day you wake up and you're in map09's pinky room with -fast parameter

[versed vortex]

i dont remember any pinky room in map09

or are u referring to tricks and traps

[bitter shoal]

Assuming the tricks and traps room, there is a bfg in there

Although you won’t kill all of them

Should’ve said pinky room in chasm

Cause even if you escape it, that just takes you to chasm

[solemn socket]

yea… tricks and traps

[stiff basalt]

Map 9 does have a section where you could get surrounded by pinkies tho

[crystal hill]

Tricks and Traps is pretty non linear by Doom II standards, its easy to go the wrong "route" at first

[cloud talon]

Why dont the melee sprites have gloves?

[crystal hill]

The knuckledusters dont fit on them

[full shoal]

Hey! I just started playing through DOOM + DOOM II. I've played the first games many times back in the day but even the sequel is new to me. I heard that ultra-violence is the way to go so I started with that. Also decided to do without saving during levels and pistol starting after death. Each game has taken me around 20 hours to complete. I just finished Master Levels which I thought I could never do :D But it has totally changed the game for me and I love it. First it felt almost unfair (when you get to E4 in DOOM) but the joy of getting through levels like Black Tower and Mephisto's is quite something. Anyone else done this kinda "challenges"?

[mighty walrus]

Short answer: ye

[full shoal]

I don't know how much fun something like Legacy Of Rust will be since the enemy count seems to jump up quite high and possibly the maps will take longer and longer. So far the longest has been 40 minutes, titan and black tower.

[mighty walrus]

Try it out, it's fun 🙂 Imo there is a lot more resource management to take into mind, but I'd like to hear your thoughts after you play some of it! It's a good challenge, which it sounds like you're definitely capable of.

[slate gyro]

I found it a really enjoyable expansion, with very detailed environments and crazy encounters. The only map I personally disliked was E2M1, but I'm not going to specify why so I don't spoil anything

It's also very challenging. The "normal" difficulty here isn't UV, but Hurt me plenty, so if you go for UV, you should keep in mind that it's the "challenge" difficulty, not the "standard" one

[full shoal]

Makes me little nervous ngl 😅 But there is always Final Doom, NRFTL and Sigils to jump to if I get stuck with LoR

[crystal hill]

Pistol starting levels on UV is kind of a standard in the Doom community. Doing it saveless less so

[crystal hill]

I'd suggest playing those first, to hone your skills a little more befote tackling LoR

[full shoal]

Yes, my friend told me that pistol starting is kinda the norm. And I like it because you experience the level design better that way.

[bitter shoal]

I seriously need to start pistol starting>_>

Going to have to make a voice command for it or something

[crystal hill]

Absolutely. If you keep weapons, ammo, health and armour from prior levels, it upsets the balance of the level quite a bit

You can have a suoer shotgun for fights the designer wanted you to have only a shotgun for, example

[bitter shoal]

I feel bad wasting a lot of level design not pistol starting them but I can’t go back now

[crystal hill]

Never too late

I kept weapons throughout levels for the first year or so playing doom. Unless I died and lost all my weapons

[solemn socket]

i mean... competn and dsda categories will list them all

[woven swallow]

welcome in new guy

[solemn socket]

most noteably: NM100S, tyson, pacifist

[slate gyro]

Yo, you're right. They've only been here for like a day... Damn...

Now I know why they didn't seem familiar at all

But yeah, welcome recruit!

[woven swallow]

is struggle: antaresian legacy getting harder for you?

[slate gyro]

I think the difficulty is just right. It's a challenge, but manageable. I also love the changes made to weapons and enemies

Also, the intermission music is a banger. I don't understand why it's called "Digimon online" though

[woven swallow]

i hope it wasn't too hard, what map are you on?

[slate gyro]

I think it was map 11. It had "Mastermind" in the title and contains two Spider Masterminds (to nobody's surprise)

I think it's a really cool map. Feels like you're battling the entirety of Hell with the amount of enemies present

Haven't finished it, though

[versed vortex]

jarvis, pistol start the next level

[winter totem]

Did night dive doom get another update recently?

[cold wadi]

no idea can't stand the kex engine for doom

[solemn socket]

did you know? most people (i assume so) got doom.wad through “sekret site?!”

[bitter shoal]

https://tenor.com/view/reggie-reggie-fils-aime-nintendo-laser-gif-13249261

[full shoal]

What is the problem with it? I got 70 hours in and haven't noticed anything.

[cold wadi]

feels off movement wise, feels laggy shooting wise

[woven swallow]

i thought i was the only one who was facing that issue

[bitter shoal]

wow that isn't good

[crystal hill]

I havent played it long at all, an hour tops, but it didnt feel particularly off compared to GZDoom

[full shoal]

I guess I haven't have a version to compare so I don't feel that. Only the original version in the 90's but can't remember how that felt :D

[sharp wyvern]

movement is a little off but i think shooting lag isn't an issue it has (but either way anything is worth it for legacy of rust)

[sharp wyvern]

no?

[mortal hemlock]

everyone who isn't interested in the remasters

and the secret site is just internet archive

[solemn socket]

SHHH!!! DONT LEAK THE NAME

WHY DO YOU THINK ITS TITLED THE SECRET SITE...

[crystal hill]

you're being weird

[vestal flower]

Idk, probably scared or something

[solemn socket]

okay youre right

[cold wadi]

yah it's really not good

[full shoal]

Just got through No Rest For The Lining! Some maps tough and took a lot of restarts :D I had more fun than with Doom2 or Master Levels.

[slate gyro]

Yeah, No Rest for the Living is an incredible expansion. The Earth Base is my favorite Doom map ever, due to the awesome design and Decino's track

[tender onyx]

Hey guys how do you think about the campaign 'doom dessesion'

I think using 'Campaign' will be more accurate

cuz that's a remake version about episode 1 in doom 1993

[sharp wyvern]

It’s definitely better than Doom 2 IMO

The perfect epilogue for that game

[crystal hill]

it's far better designed, yeah

[trim lintel]

im gonna find a way to get doom 1 running on my thermostat

[slate gyro]

Wouldn't it need a screen for that?

[bitter shoal]

There are probably smart WiFi enabled thermostats because of course there are

[trim sonnet]

Doom 64 is underrated and needs more love

[red dune]

Agreed. The unmaker from 64 is still my favorite gun in the series

[crystal hill]

Doom 64 has never clicked with me. The slower movement, the atmosphere, the greater focus on continuous play, among other factors

[stiff basalt]

K

[crystal hill]

Lack of a lot of my favourite enemies from Doom II, and buffing the pain elemental for some goddamn reason really factor into it also

[slate gyro]

Someone once said that maybe the Pain Elemental was buffed so there was a "top priority" enemy that you gotta kill immediately, and due to the lack of Arch-Viles, the Pain Elemental was the next best thing

[bitter shoal]

Pain elemental is already a high priority target so that doesn’t make sense. I think they just wanted to get rid of being able to cheese it up close

[crystal hill]

couldn't agree more. In a room with a pain elemental and a vile, as long as there is some decent cover, I would prioritise the pain elemental

[wind cradle]

yeah, makes sense, because the archvile can't resurrect the pain elementals so better to just kill the pains first

[slate gyro]

I don't know, I think I'd rather kill an Archie first, but I guess it's a matter of preferences?

[crystal hill]

I feel like if you get good at fighting archies, they really aren't so bad. Unless they're in a group or have bodies to resurrect

[slate gyro]

Also, a fellow Nine Inch Nails enjoyer! Extremely based

[sharp wyvern]

I wish Lost Levels took a page out of Legacy of Rust’s book and added new things

[wind cradle]

fuck yeah!

cheers!

[sharp wyvern]

I mean why not take advantage of being able to avoid the D64 memory system on your port and its new content

There’s already code for the Revenant Rockets (rocket traps) and there’s code for Archvile flames (mother demon) so surely those two could’ve been reimplemented

[slate gyro]

That's what I'm saying! I'd kill for a second expansion that includes the hell hound and the succubus, as well as some classic demons that weren't present

[sharp wyvern]

Buffing the Pain Elemental has the side effect of making the player utilise more of their arsenal

[crystal hill]

It would be quite a gift to modders as well

[crystal hill]

does it?

[wind cradle]

i should learn to make doom 64 maps

it be neat

[crystal hill]

It's the only enemy I kill with the chainsaw in Doom 2, unless I have close to no ammo for other weapons

[sharp wyvern]

You’re forced into using something like the chaingun or the plasma rifle over the super shotgun due to the increased stats of Lost Souls and Pain Elementals

[crystal hill]

I always prefer to use those in D2

unless I can get close, which isn't always a guarantee

[wind cradle]

i use the up close trick when its just pain elementals

[sharp wyvern]

Same but a lot of people go through D2 only using shotguns

[crystal hill]

that's lame and their fault

[wind cradle]

usually when theres more enemies that trick doesn't really work

[sharp wyvern]

It’s like how Eternal made some enemies require certain weapons kind of

64 did that on a smaller scale

[crystal hill]

that's bad design IMO

[sharp wyvern]

Im not the biggest fan of the changes but I like the idea

[crystal hill]

have weapons that are much better for enemies, but outright forcing people to use one specific weapon and mod on an enemy is lame

[sharp wyvern]

technically you’re not forced to use a chaingun on a d64 elemental it’s just more heavily advised

[crystal hill]

I'm not saying thats bad design

I'm talking about eternal with it's stone imps

[bitter shoal]

Are stone imps DLC only?

[sharp wyvern]

Yeah they’re not great

[crystal hill]

they are

[sharp wyvern]

TDA had a much better implementation of them

I am partial to Spirits though

[crystal hill]

I don't like D64's pain elementals I dont like them in Doom 2 much either, but I dont think they are badly designed

you just have to approach them a little differently to D2

[crystal hill]

I like what they do to encounters, but I dislike them forcing you to use one specific weapon against them like the imps

[sharp wyvern]

Eh it’s a fun reference and it adds a bit of tension

Given you’re practically defenceless while using the beam

It has more of a game changing impact rather than just “use this weapon for a little bit”

[slate gyro]

Honestly, I don't mind them that much

[crystal hill]

You could achieve the same thing by letting the other plasma mode kill them

have it do so slower, and take more ammo if you wish

[sharp wyvern]

You’re not defenceless while using the other plasma mode though

[crystal hill]

so the beam is still the better of the two options

[sharp wyvern]

And also it’s not a ghostbusters reference :P

[crystal hill]

meh

I really don't like the idea of forcing players to use specific weapons when they have others that could theoretically do the job also

they should be guided into your preferred way to do it by tweaking the numbers, not by forcing them at gunpoint

[slate gyro]

Yeah, and the totally random weapon skin you get for busting like 5 spirits... So strange

[bitter shoal]

DOOM Eternal had a lot of "we want you to fight enemies in very specific ways" so that isn't surprising

[stiff basalt]

peak game design

[sharp wyvern]

I don’t mind too much other than Stone Imps

[bitter shoal]

It is bad taht I can't tell if this is a joke or not

[crystal hill]

but they dont usually FORCE you to fight those enemies in a very specific way

[sharp wyvern]

Honestly on a replay of doom eternal the full auto is very fun to use as a “fuck this guy in particular” button

[crystal hill]

the game WANTS you to use explosives on cacos to stagger them

but you dont have to

[bitter shoal]

Yeah that is true but it had a point where it was obviously going to get worse and I guess these stone imps are that

[sharp wyvern]

To be fair you should definitely never not do that lol

Like they’re very meaty otherwise

[crystal hill]

sure, which teaches you to use the explosives

but again - doesn't FORCE you

it's a more organic way of teaching the player

[sharp wyvern]

Honestly I’d complain that Eternal made the Cacos not scary at all but even in Doom 3 they’re practically comic relief so it’s fine