classic-doom

[sharp wyvern]

E6M3

[warm prism]

shit, im in E6M5

[terse belfry]

Just finished playing doom 2 for the first time

Icon of sin imo is pretty tedious and annoying as a final boss

SSG is a pretty good stimulator for my adhd self

Time to download gzdoom now or find a way to play evilution and plutonia

[woven swallow]

Play with dsda doom

Not GZdoom

[terse belfry]

I'll look into that

But gz is super modable

[woven swallow]

Do you have doom + doom2?

[terse belfry]

No I unfortunately use dos because I have no money

[woven swallow]

Ah i see

[woven swallow]

Yes but it doesn’t give a classic feel

Even on doom strict

[terse belfry]

It's getting late for me, I'll be heading off now

[sharp wyvern]

awesome 🔥

[mighty star]

https://tenor.com/view/revenant-jumpscare-doom-gif-22528711

[vale gyro]

Just here to be “that guy.” Try out both DSDA and GZDoom

Also, you can just always have both, which is a good option

Most people have several source ports downloaded

As some things work in one, while not in others

For example, POOGERS won’t work on GZDoom

And UDMF maps usually don’t work outside of GZDoom

[thorn jungle]

can i transfer all my progress from PrBoom+ to DSDA?

i spent a lot of time on E4M2 (HMP) and Map 9 (UV) and i don't wanna play those two maps ever again

[azure nimbus]

no. just beat those maps and pistol start the next

[thorn jungle]

ah, that sucks so much

i've tried pistol starting Refueling Base UV, but i keep dying at the literal first room (the one with 1 pain elemental, and tons of zombies and imps)

[azure nimbus]

there's a shotgun through the wall at the start with the triangle

[thorn jungle]

yeah ik

[azure nimbus]

and a bfg in the big arachno room

[thorn jungle]

uhuh, seen that

[azure nimbus]

There's enough stuff you can do it

[thorn jungle]

i actually stand a chance with the ssg and chaingun

take that away, and it's bye bye

also, are these iwads worth it:

1. Plutonia
2. TNT
3. NRFTL

[vast reef]

can say plutonia is

tnt was eh and somehow havent played nrftl

[thorn jungle]

is it as bad as people say it is

chaingun and skeleton noises

people say it's extremely difficult due to their high numbers of chaingunners, revenants, and archviles

[sharp wyvern]

plutonia is hard but i enjoyed it a lot

[sharp wyvern]

YOU GOTTA PLAY NRFTL IT'S SO AWESOME!!

[thorn jungle]

cv11 said NRFTL was good, so i got curious

[vast reef]

it's more doable than people say

especially when you place it next to pwads

[mighty star]

If you like revenant spam yes

It prepares you for the harder wads like Sunlust

[sharp wyvern]

it has my favourite cyberdemon fight of classic doom

[thorn jungle]

i got annoyed with that part of Map 28 though

[thorn jungle]

nahh i don't think i'll play sunlust

[vast reef]

believe in yrself

[thorn jungle]

god machine dissuaded me long ago from trying sunlust

[mighty star]

Even Sunlust’s creator advises playing on HMP lol, I don’t think I’d try ultra violence

[thorn jungle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1348211699924336680/1361661543816626316/Sl30-enterfinale.png?ex=67ff91a2&is=67fe4022&hm=8366f03bac215edc9dd19a19621db23140956b2bcbd846ea83678f1eb863274e&

i mean look at this shit

[mighty star]

That level is pain

Go feck yourself is just as bad

[woven swallow]

how do you share images?

[thorn jungle]

Copy Link on pc

Copy Media Link on mobile

i wonder what shrooms Sunlust's creator was on when he made this level

[mighty star]

https://youtu.be/ubdda0DuFvM?si=G4RAjFsR4Ulx6X1G

[woven swallow]

fractured worlds map01 is my hardest, map set difficulty is comparable to late game sunlust

[mighty star]

Opulok is the mother of slaughtermaps

[thorn jungle]

will you guys ever try No Chance in your lives?

[woven swallow]

i did

[thorn jungle]

what's the experience

[woven swallow]

hell

[thorn jungle]

of course

[mighty star]

Heck

[vast reef]

tried it for like 3 hours

[thorn jungle]

"see that mancubus over there? on UV that's a cyberdemon"

[vast reef]

thats slaughter for ya

[woven swallow]

coincident beat it on uv with one save, and beat it single segment on ITYTD

[mighty star]

I watched that vid

[thorn jungle]

call P_Random table, if the roll is 1 out of 256, you beat it in one try

i think i'll download DSDA, and replay Doom 1 and 2 on it, just to get a feel of the port

UV, so to speak

[finite crag]

It's a pretty good game, I finished it on UV yesterday, but Icon of Sin does really suck imo so I agree there

I also tried saveless UV-ing Plutonia today. Level 1 got through after a lot of trial and error, almost got past level 2 but then I died to bullshit.

"You can just save." If I feel the need to save mroe than once during a level... then something's not fully right.

[thorn jungle]

how do i run DSDA?

[woven swallow]

just like any normal port

just drag drop the wad file

[lunar rune]

Icon of Sin is trash lmao, barely even a level like MtPain27 said

[thorn jungle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1348211699924336680/1361672079841427629/image.png?ex=67ff9b72&is=67fe49f2&hm=2ec760c07bb873b9e9ed189e9f691da4cf4ac07f18106c4e8967b3fa1025786a&

[woven swallow]

that's wrong

[thorn jungle]

has a lot of stuff here, and i can't find the .exe file

[woven swallow]

what did you download

[thorn jungle]

i downloaded it from github

[woven swallow]

let me find it for you

https://github.com/kraflab/dsda-doom/releases/tag/v0.29.0 download dsda doom 0.29.0 win64.zip

[mighty star]

Use ZDL launcher

[woven swallow]

he doesn't even have the sourceport, i think he downloaded the source code

[thorn jungle]

yeah i did

[thorn jungle]

thanks

[woven swallow]

[thorn jungle]

my gosh the movement is even more dynamic than prboom

that's something i gotta get used to ig

[thorn jungle]

what do i play first, plutonia or tnt

you guys decide

[sharp wyvern]

tnt

save the best for last

[azure nimbus]

It is not. FW is way harder. map01 is similar. The secret map is similar. The rest is way harder

[thorn jungle]

play first on hmp, probably
beginning of level saves only

[azure nimbus]

I'm aware that Nirvana said that it's similar. It's not the case

[mighty star]

Savescumming time

[thorn jungle]

i don't save scum

i used to tho, back when i first played doom 1 on hmp

and my movement controls were the shitty arrow key ones (i was playing on a browser)

[woven swallow]

really?

it feels the same

to me

[thorn jungle]

it feels really different to me

[woven swallow]

omg remove this stupid 5 second slowmode

[thorn jungle]

hol on, i'll record some comparison

[woven swallow]

i swear it's gonna be like that one "ps5 vs ps5 pro, as you can see, the ps5 pro is way better" and it looks the same

[thorn jungle]

point is, there's some sort of slipperiness more prominent in dsda

yeah maybe i'm schizophrenic

[woven swallow]

prboom+ looks more smoother and darker, dsda doom looks more pixelated and lighter for me

[vale gyro]

I’ve never noticed it

Though, it could just be due to you using the hardware renderer

Some people report it feeling different when you do use it

[vast reef]

dynamic?? 😭

[thorn jungle]

dont harass meeee ive been using prboom for like a year

[woven swallow]

no harrasment, just a bit of trolling

i hate waiting for eternity to say something

[thorn jungle]

do you guys like smooth doom

[woven swallow]

no, love it extra crispy

or is it the weapon mod

[thorn jungle]

it's the animation mod

[vast reef]

yeah

[woven swallow]

no problem with it

[thorn jungle]

i think i'll give it a try once i learn more about dsda

[woven swallow]

dsda is basically prboom+ but added more features and even support for mbf21....the end

have a nice day

[vale gyro]

Nah

[woven swallow]

oh i thought i was wrong

[vale gyro]

Yeah, the messages loaded in wrong for me lmao

So it looked like the last message was the Smooth Doom one

But yeah, you’re right

[thorn jungle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1348211699924336680/1361697944415240282/cmon.....mp4?ex=67ffb389&is=67fe6209&hm=963ad2c0aea5d56f722dc15e7d4e45e7a1f66dbaff0553022a49cc0781f46f1d&

this guy was toying with me

[woven swallow]

the frames are so bad i can't tell if this is smooth doom or not

[thorn jungle]

after he landed two shots on me i just said "fuck it"

[thorn jungle]

that isn't smooth doom, that's just my recording software

[woven swallow]

oh alright

bro do you not have 16:9 monitor? or you want the dosbox look

[vale gyro]

Please just use OBS if you can

[thorn jungle]

i'll try to install it again

this software is pretty bad, it can only record like 5 minutes before cutting off

my computer can handle OBS tho

[woven swallow]

then use it 😭 🙏

[thorn jungle]

just wait a sec aight

[vale gyro]

Btw, if you want some extra features and like DSDA, use Nyan Doom

I switched to it recently after using Woof and Nugget Doom for a long time and I’ve been liking it

[thorn jungle]

what's its perks

[vale gyro]

Just some more QoL features that DSDA lacks, plus ENDOOM support

I mainly use it for its status indicators on the extended HUD (or status bar face if you like)

[woven swallow]

i might sound super stupid but what's endoom

oh

nvm

[vale gyro]

Also you can disable transparent projectiles and stuff from within the menu itself

Though, DSDA’s latest update might’ve finally added that to the menu

Also it does have colored blood if you’re into that

DSDA does have dehacked support for colored blood, but lacks the option in the menus or config file

[thorn jungle]

i might sound super stupid

this is what i've been thinking everytime i type something out here

[thorn jungle]

oh yes pls colored blood

[mighty star]

Nugget Doom has an option which makes the super shotgun gib at close range

So satisfying

[thorn jungle]

i'm down

sheesh, man

[woven swallow]

yessir frosty the snowman

[mighty star]

I’ll have to make a vid of it in OBS lmao

[thorn jungle]

i remember decino said the reason why ssg doesn't gib is because when a monster reaches 0 hp, all the other pellets don't hit it and clip through, preventing it from reaching negative health

[woven swallow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1167762378197311528/1361701952336957500/doom07.png?ex=67ffb744&is=67fe65c4&hm=63766fee25530b2fe58939086a3691acf800bc1135230c0e7ae613d301592a08&

[thorn jungle]

what wad is this

[woven swallow]

i figured it out

[woven swallow]

stardate20x7

[mighty star]

I haven’t played that one yet

[woven swallow]

ribbiks made it

the same guy who made sunlust

[azure nimbus]

You can experience this for yourself. If you get blasted by an archvile zap you'll redscreen really hard -- except if you're on very low health. Say 5 or 10. You'll only experience the initial 20 direct damage from the vile but not the 70 damage accompanying explosion because you're already dead

[mighty star]

Ah

Ancient Aliens was a really good one

[thorn jungle]

the 20 damage zap is hitscan

[mighty star]

the best wad I played recently was Tetanus
Some really fun fights and good midi

[woven swallow]

have you played heartland?

[azure nimbus]

Right

[mighty star]

Only 2 levels from it

[woven swallow]

nice

[azure nimbus]

Heartland is one of very few wads that entirely justify downloading a special engine for it

[thorn jungle]

and we know that hitscan can't gib

[mighty star]

It was made exclusively for the eternity engine right? It had some very clever mapping

[woven swallow]

maps get BEETER as you go further

[azure nimbus]

That's right

[woven swallow]

yeah

[thorn jungle]

[mighty star]

F

[thorn jungle]

srry heh

[mighty star]

Tried to post a pic from Ancient Aliens

[woven swallow]

oh you are also in the doom community server as well

nice

FAWKKKKKK SLOWMODE

[thorn jungle]

atleast it's just 5 seconds

#artwork has a minute, #videos has 15

[mighty star]

Yeh

I don’t post in it much tho

[vast reef]

what community server

[woven swallow]

doom community server

dead char

[hexed escarp]

i just played a couple valiant maps, and then went to play another wad, and the regular chaingun feels so weak and slow lmao

is this how people who play exclusively brutal doom and other similar mods feel when they try to play with the regular arsenal

[sleek escarp]

im playing through the master levels for doom 2 for the first time and it picks tf up around map 10

these levels are super intricate and fun

[hexed escarp]

yeah the pacing is very strange because the levels are not really meant to be played in sequence

they are kinda each their own self contained thing

thats why they all come in separate wads

[sleek escarp]

yeah the steam release has a different order than ive played before i think lol

[hexed escarp]

the original release came with a launcher that let you choose individual maps

[sleek escarp]

does that help with limitations/bigger maps?

[hexed escarp]

no

[sleek escarp]

hm

[hexed escarp]

i think they were just each meant to be their own thing rather than a continuous mapset

ive never played the master levels because ive heard that they are really bad

and i have many other much better wads to play first

[mighty star]

I haven’t played them completely, I played a few that were included in the PSX port of final doom

[sleek escarp]

im enjoying it a lot more than tnt's second half

or first half

[hexed escarp]

yeah i didnt start playing tnt recently for a similar reason lmao

although i did start playing it recently and while some of the maps have been bad, i have been really enjoying the atmosphere and environments

it has a much stronger sense of place than any of the other iwads

[mighty star]

Oh come on, don’t you love that secret level from TNT that you literally can’t finish cause the mapper forgot to add the yellow key?

[sleek escarp]

im going through the steam acheivments for completing all the expansions

[hexed escarp]

ah

[sleek escarp]

you can still exit the level its fine

[hexed escarp]

i think the steam release probably added back the yellow key

in the original release you literally COULDNT EXIT THE MAP

[sleek escarp]

they forgot the to add the acheivment with sigil 2 though

[hexed escarp]

sigil 2 isnt an official expansion

[sleek escarp]

so did whatever version i played cus i havent played steam tnt yet

[thorn jungle]

are the Master Levels any good?

[mighty star]

I want to play TNT threnody at some point

It was made as a tribute to one of the TNT mappers who sadly passed away

[hexed escarp]

sigil was added officially but sigil 2 is still just in there as an extra downloadable wad

[hexed escarp]

from what i have heard, no

[sleek escarp]

its on steam doom+doom2 now

[sleek escarp]

they are some good

[hexed escarp]

oh is it like in the main menu

or do you have to go to the add-ons section

[sleek escarp]

yeah updated a couple days ago

[hexed escarp]

ah ok, well then achievements will probably come soon

[mighty star]

Is Perdition’s Gate on the steam release yet?

[sleek escarp]

no lol

[mighty star]

Rip

[sleek escarp]

sigil is the only non official expansion

[thorn jungle]

ok, so my wad list to try out is

1. NRFTL
2. Plutonia
3. TNT

in that otder

[sleek escarp]

plutonia rocks

[hexed escarp]

it is probably in the addons browser

[mighty star]

NRFTL and Plutonia are my jam

TNT I’m iffy on but still fun

[sleek escarp]

idk what NRFTL is

[hexed escarp]

if you are looking for non official releases to check out, i can highly recommend eviternity 1 and 2, and valiant

[hexed escarp]

no rest for the living

[thorn jungle]

No Rest For The Living

[sleek escarp]

i honestly like the first half

[sleek escarp]

oh that shit is awesome

best expansion

[thorn jungle]

it was some sort of a second episode to Doom 2

[hexed escarp]

ehhh i think legacy of rust is better

[sleek escarp]

nrftl is just so polished

[hexed escarp]

so is lor

lor is SO polished

[mighty star]

The one Legacy of Rust level that forces you to use the flamethrower is not good

[sleek escarp]

idk i havent finished it yet ill have to see

[mighty star]

Liked everything else though

[sleek escarp]

stone imp moment

[thorn jungle]

just so i don't get confused...

NRFTL, Plutonia, and TNT are iwads, and LoR is a pwad, right?

[sleek escarp]

except i bet the flamethrower level is way better cus i like gimmicky levels like that. Like the archviles only map

[mighty star]

You should play with the community made midi packs if you can

[sleek escarp]

oh yeah the plutonia midi pack is real good

[mighty star]

Decino made a killer one for NRFTL

[thorn jungle]

that one scares me when i finally play Plutonia

[sleek escarp]

i love that map Archie is my favorite guy by far

[hexed escarp]

wdym that map was awesome

[thorn jungle]

spoiler

are there enough shotgun shells, rockets, and bfg cells to deal with all those arch viles?

[hexed escarp]

it was definitely difficult but it was so cool

[sleek escarp]

i dont remember lol

[mighty star]

You get a super shotgun only if you’re pistol starting

[hexed escarp]

yeah you only have a super shotgun but you have plenty of ammo

[sleek escarp]

plutonia pretty consistently starves you of ammo throughout the game. but it's done in an intentional smart way not in a we forgot the ammo way

[thorn jungle]

...it detects when you're pistol starting, and if not, the beginning ssg doesn't appear?

[hexed escarp]

no

they are saying "if you are pistol starting, you only get the super shotgun"

[sleek escarp]

no hes saying the super shotgun is the only gun in the map you can pick up

[thorn jungle]

oh that makes more sense

[mighty star]

The super shotgun is the only weapon in the map (at least at the beginning) you won’t carry any weapons over from the previous map

Archvile maze doesn’t scare me anymore, I’ve been through the Archvile carousel…

[hexed escarp]

i should try to continue my saveless playthrough of eviternity

[thorn jungle]

well atleast the corridors are cramped, making it so that you only fight one arch vile at once

[hexed escarp]

i was struggling with the first secret map

[finite crag]

Plutonia. Save the best for last

Or TNT. Best first lol (Many people prefer Plutonia... I do not lol but I respec tpeople's pinions

[thorn jungle]

now you're directly contradicting the other guy

[finite crag]

I know it was kinda a joke but yeah I prefer TNT.

In all seriousness, do start TNT first

[thorn jungle]

mmmm ok

which is harder for you

[finite crag]

Plutonia is hardest no doubt and not for the right reasons necessarily

Plutonia is considered to be the hardest official doom iwad

[thorn jungle]

[finite crag]

I was playing UV Plutonia today again... Ima give up on this. I only tried this to see if it would change my opinion.

It didn't.

[thorn jungle]

i'm most definitely starting Final Doom on HMP

[finite crag]

Good choice

Tho even on my HMP run for Plutonia, I did not like it as much as others, I felt like I had to force myself to finish it, whereas I did not have it as much with TNT and Master levels

[thorn jungle]

last time i tried playing Doom 2 for the first time on UV it was too much on Map 5 () so i turned it down to HMP

[finite crag]

I'm always in this dilemma of saveless or save-scum.

I will always try beating a level saveless first, I'll only save-scum to prevent brainrot from re-trying the exact same stuff or if I'm certain enough that beating it savelessly will make my opinion on a level worse

[mighty star]

The Casali brothers love their chaingunners

[hexed escarp]

plutonia is way harder, but the level design is much more consistently good than TNT

[finite crag]

I know...

As in, I know the chaingunners are their faves lol

[hexed escarp]

in general tho, community wads are much better than both tnt and plutonia lmao

[finite crag]

I prefer TNT design

[hexed escarp]

like they are good and by all means play them if you want, but there is so much better out there

[finite crag]

And I think TNT is flawed btw, far from perfect

[thorn jungle]

i stand by beginning of level saves and i will die standing here

[mighty star]

Frostbite’s reaction to Go 2 It will be funny
Heh he heh

[hexed escarp]

if you play plutonia, you should use the midi pack tho

[finite crag]

So do I

[hexed escarp]

one thing to know about plutonia tho

the difficulty implementation is very spotty

[thorn jungle]

ahh i'm looking forward to it

[hexed escarp]

some maps use the UV enemy placement on all difficulties, others dont

[finite crag]

I did that for recent DOOM 2 UV run, I'd only save-scum at levels with BS sections like The Chasm and Barrels O 'FUN'

[hexed escarp]

so the experience on lower difficulties is not going to be very consistent or well paced

so i would recommend playing it on UV

[mighty star]

I only save after completing fights because I don’t like losing progress
Saving mid fight is savescumming imo

[hexed escarp]

because its not very well balanced on the other difficulties unfortunately

[finite crag]

I could only beat the first three levels on Plutonia saveless UV because of sheer trial and error

I did kinda like Aztec

I documented my Final Doom journey back in February here, it was really interesting lol

I also refuse to save-scum often out of pride

With that said, there's also TNT Evilution levels that are on my DNR (Do not replay) list

[hexed escarp]

by refuse to savescum do you mean you play with no saves?

[finite crag]

I only save at the start of each level

[hexed escarp]

ah

so i see why you dont like plutonia then

there is a middle ground between saving every two seconds and not saving at all

[finite crag]

Yeah I'm not gonna blame plutonia for this

Saving after every key?

[hexed escarp]

my rule is no mid-fight saves

playing more difficult maps blind without saves is very very very difficult

even most experienced players will play a map with saves first to learn it before trying to play with no saves

[finite crag]

Fair

[thorn jungle]

does Zero Master play with saves first with a new wad?

[finite crag]

I am also aware I have a skill issue. I hope I don't come off as DSPgaming when I talk about Plutonia, I don't blame the wad at all lol

[hexed escarp]

not sure

probably depends on the wad

[mighty star]

https://tenor.com/view/shake-dsp-darksydephil-dspgaming-bulldog-gif-14729690

[hexed escarp]

for something like sunder, definitely lmao

[finite crag]

But yeah I also want to go no-save at first because I want to feel satisfaction and learn the level well. This did lead to me semi-speedrunning The Spirit World in DOOM 2 (Par time 7 minutes, mine was 1:47 on UV)

[thorn jungle]

what i know is Decino does

[mighty star]

DSP rage to the marauder in Eternal is comedy gold

[hexed escarp]

this also depends on the map

for more difficult stuff he plays with saves first

[thorn jungle]

No Chance, God Machine (i believe), Swim With The Whales

[finite crag]

I would definitely save-scum exploit on Nightmare! mode but I don't run nightmare

[hexed escarp]

but what i would say is dont let stubbornness to save prevent you from experiencing more difficult maps

[finite crag]

yepyep

[hexed escarp]

a lot of the really really excellent, fun, and beautiful wads are more difficult

and can be enjoyed before you are good enough to properly oneshot them

[thorn jungle]

i tried Nightmare! last two months but i couldn't get past E1M3

[finite crag]

I did get past E1M3 but through excessive save-scumming. It was so bad lol

[hexed escarp]

yeah nightmare is a joke difficulty, it was not meant to be beatable

[mighty star]

E1M3 is the hardest map in nightmare

[hexed escarp]

it was literally put in to shut up people who complained that uv was too easy

[mighty star]

Everything afterwards is a bit easier

[finite crag]

Zero master and other Nightmare! runners are bestial. I think the ID devs were laughing their asses of making it

Well you do need to beat one level on Nightmare for a trophy on D1+D2... but that just made me boot up Entryway and voila

[hexed escarp]

most of my favorite wads i have not beaten saveless because i am not good enough/dont have the time or patience

although i was working on it for eviternity

but i got stuck on the first secret map

and i doubt i would be able to do the second secret map because of how long it is

what are yall's favorite wads

[thorn jungle]

some maps would be impossible on nightmare, especially the big, more exploration heavy ones

[hexed escarp]

my top 3 are eviternity, eviternity 2, and scythe 2 in no particular order

[mighty star]

Tetanus is a new favourite for me

The combat puzzles are great

[thorn jungle]

i admittedly haven't gotten into custom mods yet so i can't answer that

[hexed escarp]

oh yeah i need to check that out

[thorn jungle]

but i'm starting with NRFTL

[finite crag]

Eh DOOM 2? I have not tried many

Nuts.wad is comedy gold

[hexed escarp]

you all should play eviternity

[finite crag]

Beat it on UV twice, everyone should try nuts.wad at least once, tradition

[mighty star]

Auger Zenith is really good

[hexed escarp]

it is incredible, and it is very well balanced on lower difficulties as well if you have trouble with it on UV

the atmosphere, visuals, music, and combat are all excellent

[finite crag]

I also save-scummed the shit out of Dimension of the Past on Quake on Nightmare. Thought 'Might as well get both achievements...'

[mighty star]

Dimension of the Past is really stingy with ammo

[finite crag]

I do find it a bit unfortunate they changd nightmare on Quake remaster since I'm curious how the old version was like

[finite crag]

Oh I ran out often

Had to cheese the last shambler with an axe and saves

[mighty star]

Health is at 100, but monsters attack extremely fast

Ogres basically become turrets

[finite crag]

Yeah I hear that it makes it easier at times, hence my curiosity. Wish they at least kept that in as an option

[azure nimbus]

Nah. e1m9 is easily on par with or perhaps even harder. e4m1. e2m6, especially if you care about secrets. e4m6 almost requires a red key grab. map22 on doom2(the one with the chaingunners and archviles in a small condensed area from American McGee in case it's actually map23). map14 and 15. Map29. All on par with or harder than e1m3

I do think that if you can beat e1m3, you can probably also handle the others.

[hexed escarp]

oh yeah i cant even imagine doing e4m1 on nightmare

[finite crag]

I did it UV saveless and that was already something lol

I legit allowed doomy to die at the start of E4m2 and then save because he was sucked dry, low health and almost no ammo left

[hexed escarp]

yeah sometimes pistol starting can actually be nicer because you dont have to worry about your health or ammo situation at the end of the previous map

the start of every map is a clean slate

when i play continuous, i get way too stressed out obsessing over ammo and health

Pistol starting is also nice because maps are usually balanced around it because that is what the mapper has when they are testing the map

[thorn jungle]

i still have trouble with E1M9 on UV

[hexed escarp]

Is scythe X any good?

Scythe 2 is one of my favorites and I wish there was more of it

[halcyon willow]

Good but never finished. Only 13ish maps iirc?

[hexed escarp]

yeah

[lunar rune]

Nuts is pale in comparison to Nuts 3, way better map imo

[lunar rune]

The dean said it was great

[mighty star]

Nuts 4 when

[lunar rune]

Haven't played it for myself though

[lunar rune]

If BPRD ever comes back

It's been 20 years

[mighty star]

https://tenor.com/view/metal-gear-solid4-mgs4-solid-snake-old-snake-becoming-old-gif-24179307

[hexed escarp]

i feel bad for him, he has made a bunch of cool stuff but he randomly uploaded a test/joke map to test uploading to idgames and now he is only known as the guy who made nuts.wad

[warm prism]

im a fcking genius

in E6M3 (Sigil II) you can kill the Cyberdemo easily if you use the teleporter near the exit, if you line him up correctly

[rich anvil]

Last year I showed my roommate nuts.wad because I was hoping we could both lol at watching the frame rate drop to 0

And was surprised when the slowdown was like barely even noticeable

Really shows how far engine optimization has come I guess

[vale gyro]

The power of modern hardware and non-ZDoom engines™️

[warm prism]

https://tenor.com/view/saul-goodman-saul-jimmy-james-james-mcgill-gif-18490182

j/

[finite crag]

How do people create these bad ass viewmodel sprites?? Is there some kind of secret workflow to do that?

[tawdry current]

what's wrong with ZDoom?

[vale gyro]

it's just usually considered heavily unoptimized (more specifically GZDoom)

but it's honestly overplayed a lot

[tawdry current]

Gotcha

[vale gyro]

I have my own reasons for not liking it

but performance isn't one of them

[finite crag]

i remember i couldnt run nuts.wad on gzdoom

but i could in zdoom

[hoary forge]

Not just performance

Its just straight up bad

[azure nimbus]

That's true. We're talking about an unoptimized version of a 1993 game on modern hardware. It'll be fine. The real "issue" (less of an issue and more so of a simple fact) that it isn't precisely faithful to the original physics)

[vale gyro]

Like yes, it is less performant in a ton of situations than something like DSDA-Doom

but usually GZ will run at playable framerates

[hoary forge]

I know that GZDoom can run on essentially any semi-decent "gaming" PC out there, but Doom is from 1993, the game its supposed to run on anything cuz its from 1993. I dont want to buy an octa core processor just to run the vanilla game at 60 fps.

And thats just one of the issues, like @azure nimbus said, the games physics and mechanics are severily changed from the original game

[finite crag]

wrong it couldnt run on a snes

[vale gyro]

for as much as I hate GZDoom, I have to be real

[azure nimbus]

Thank you! People act like doom runs on anything -- and I suppose that is theoretically true. But will it run well? No. PSX doom has to cut a lot. SNES runs terribly

[pure saffron]

hi

[hoary forge]

I mean, it technically can
And its also a game for the DOS, which was pretty beefy at the time in comparison to an SNES.

But i mean that it should run on anything nowdays

[finite crag]

https://tenor.com/view/slipping-penguin-funny-animals-cute-winter-gif-13064024

[vale gyro]

Yeah, it annoys me that people say this as well

Like the Ti calculator game? That's not Doom, it's Wolfenstein 3D

[azure nimbus]

I actually don't think that this is entirely true. GZ or Zdoom or anything not demo compatible will run pretty similarly as far as a casual observer goes. But the actual differences are rather small

[vale gyro]

I can notice differences in physics that make me actually sick at times

[azure nimbus]

Anything that is turing complete (has an and gate and a not gate) can run any computer program given enough time.

[vale gyro]

true

but basically everyone uses the term "run" in the sense it's playable

or in general sense, can be used in reasonable amounts of time

[azure nimbus]

There's a reason that people play doom on their computer and not on a deck of cards that they've arranged to mimic boolean logic while manually turning the cards as they directly reference the source code to run it manually

[vale gyro]

holy fuck that's a new one lmao

[hoary forge]

Also, GZDoom doesnt capture the essence of Doom, (it can capture the essence with mods and a lot of configs, but in general it doesnt intend to) youre not supposed to have freelook or video blur filtering on Doom.

[azure nimbus]

There's no reason that you couldn't manually run the game while reading the code! It's open source

[azure nimbus]

John Carmack said that the first thing that should be added is freelook.

I respect Doom's limitations. But we have to understand that those limitations come from the text itself so to speak. They don't come necessarily from authorial intent.

[vale gyro]

I only don't agree with people who use freelook in levels that straight up break with freelook

[hoary forge]

Freelook in Doom only works with custom wads

[vale gyro]

I'll let it somewhat slide for the original levels

[hoary forge]

It just doesnt work in the vanilla campaign

[vale gyro]

but I'm mainly referring to WADs that straight up disable such features

[azure nimbus]

I used GZ to help get screenshots. Finnagling with the settings gets it to look similar enough to vanilla doom that I really can't tell a difference (until I see the garbate projectiles).

[vale gyro]

I use Nyan Doom for screenshots personally

[azure nimbus]

Can you think of any particular vanilla maps where it does actually mess up the balance to use freelook

[vale gyro]

yeah, freelook isn't a major issue for the original levels

[azure nimbus]

At this point, DSDA has freelook and a fly command as well as a renderer that doesn't freak out when you use freelook. So I just use freelook np

[vale gyro]

Nyan has a dedicated CAMERA cheat, hence why I prefer it

-# I should note Nyan is a fork of DSDA-Doom

[hoary forge]

Yeah its good for cinematics as well

But i personally dont like it for gameplay

[vale gyro]

but jumping and crouching 100% does break the original levels

as you can just skip entire sections with a single jump

[sharp wyvern]

What about the Icon fights

[vale gyro]

yeah, that's one of the main exceptions when it comes to the vanilla levels

they do rely on the lack of freelook

[azure nimbus]

Remember someone shared a speedrun they did of the icon of sin where they shot the floor to verticallly rocket jump upwards then freelooked into the icon of sin.

a) freelook to shoot the ground
b) vertical rocket jumps are not a thing in doom
c) freelook into the IoS

[hoary forge]

But at least DSDA is optimized and keeps the original physics and mechanics

And freelook isnt a problem, it works very well in certain mapsets. But i personally just think the OG game looks wrong with freelook.

[vale gyro]

I do personally get sick from using freelook

I don't think it exactly looks wrong, though

[hoary forge]

Yeah, we have this as well

[azure nimbus]

Full disclosure, I never use it except for screenshots. And maybe to check if a monster got stuck in a hole. I never use it during gameplay

[vale gyro]

same here, minus the latter

[azure nimbus]

Literally my only problem with GZ is the impression people have for it being the generalist port. As a flexible porting project, it's great

[vale gyro]

I just mainly dislike it's basically the port everyone recommends with zero regard for others

to me they just act like others don't exist

and people genuinely do believe GZDoom is the only way to play Doom on modern systems due to this

[hoary forge]

Youre right

But its so different from the vanilla Doom engine on its essence that it shouldnt be considered an Doom source port, but rather an completely independent engine.

Just look at the insane type of shit you can do with GZDoom modding and compare that to smth like Boom.

Its not even close.

[vale gyro]

well, a small group of people

I wish GZ reset your view angle when you turn off freelook, like DSDA-Doom

there's probably some random setting or mod or console command that'll do that

but I haven't found it

if anyone does know, however, I'd like to know

it'd be a nice thing to add to my binds I got to quickly enable/disable freelook stuff for whenever I use that port

[frigid kelp]

wassup dudes

[vale gyro]

Welcome to the server m8

[woven swallow]

hello new guy

[terse belfry]

I need help setting up evilution on linux

Setup.exe isn't working

[vale gyro]

Yeah, that’s because you’re on Linux

What distro are you using?

Also, what type of port do you want?

Actually, I need to get going to bed, so I doubt I’ll be able to actually help, at least in a reasonable time frame

[hexed escarp]

the level design text book i am reading for a college course just mentioned spin the bottle and quake in the same sentence

[lavish spoke]

How dangerous do yall think each monster would be if they invaded earth?

Pinkies wouldn't be super dangerous since they like huge rabid animals and can be gunned down.

Spectres would be super dangerous though. Imagine invisible giant beasts biting people.

Cyberdemon would be dangerous against civilians, but is defenseless against a group of armed officers, who could shoot its wirey stomach.

Also gun-wielding zombies could be dangerous. But against an army, they're easily outgunned

Zombiemen would be more dangerous than shotgunners, since rifles have longer range & can pierce armor better.

Chaingunners would be super dangerous for a few seconds, then run out of ammo.

[sharp wyvern]

Chaingunners have a LOT of ammo

[thorn jungle]

i assume the spider mastermind would still be a huge pushover, due to military forces gunning down its brain

[sharp wyvern]

I mean canonically Hell wipes out most of humanity in Doom II so

[thorn jungle]

let's not be based on the game logic

[sharp wyvern]

They still have a bunch of ammo on their sprite though

[thorn jungle]

they do have ammo containers on their backs so yeah

also... the mancubi would be very tough since their hides are very thick with fat, preventing bullets from penetrating through

but it's easily solved with artillery

[woven swallow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1345716091426574400/1361960420914630776/doom08.png?ex=6800a7fc&is=67ff567c&hm=fa0211d48f1b2b569ac559f4cd064a9f58442d358bf7b50c5b3fa1f99ebdd57b& i can see why people don't like slaughtermaps

[mighty star]

What wad?

[woven swallow]

slaughtermax

https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/megawads/smax

[mighty star]

Cool, not big on slaughtermaps personally

[thorn jungle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1348211699924336680/1362029025010126999/image.png?ex=6800e7e0&is=67ff9660&hm=bce71f3210cee02f04e562093e6ddf50c1d7c9d1be822fe500c1aac674dcd7fd&

i've been playing doom for a year now and i still can't 100% E1M2

[sharp wyvern]

I think the only level I’ve ever 100%’d is E2M9 😭💔

[vale gyro]

Items aren’t always counted for 100% by people

Most of the time they are, but not always

So take that how you will

[thorn jungle]

because i wanna make my life a bit easier, i won't count items for 100%

[finite crag]

hi

[finite crag]

HIII

[hot owl]

Weren't you banned dawg 😭

[finite crag]

I didn't break any rules it was misunderstanding 😞

they said I joined just too shittpost but I didn't

[hot owl]

... all you were doing was shit posting and making folk uncomfortable.

[finite crag]

can I have second chance

I didn't know what that meant

I will not be myself anymore

I'll be like everyone else

[sharp wyvern]

https://tenor.com/view/hi-mods-and-staff-ily-gif-25934904

[calm cradle]

We don’t ban people here because we like it. We ban people because they refused to follow server etiquette, which is a rule.

[finite crag]

I didn't know I was being bad

I was just talking about minecraft last I remember :<

I wont anymore

[calm cradle]

We don’t ban people for talking about Minecraft either

[finite crag]

that's all I remember 😞

I don't curse or anything

sometimes I can get hyper and immature though

[calm cradle]

How old are you

[finite crag]

13

but im not the only 13 year old here

[calm cradle]

You are aware this is a ban circumvention you are performing, correct?

[finite crag]

how else do I explain myself

[hot owl]

If you want to be here, do a ban appeal. Like I did.

[finite crag]

I lost my old account

I forgot my password

[calm cradle]

I didn’t ask why you’re on a different account. I asked that you are aware that this is ban circumventing

[finite crag]

I sorry

[calm cradle]

I didn’t ask for an apology

[finite crag]

pleasee

[calm cradle]

Answer the question.

[finite crag]

what question

[calm cradle]

You’ve got one more chance before I change my mind. I did ask a question.

[finite crag]

that? ya I do I sorry

I didn't even know that was a thing

lots people know me here I'm not bad I promise (._.)

[calm cradle]

Okay. In the meantime, I am going to put your account on temporary mute while my mod team discusses this. I suggest in that time you try very hard to reflect on what behavior got you removed to begin with.

[finite crag]

you can ask

[sharp wyvern]

do you guys think Hellion will be added to the menu of Doom + Doom II when it releases

[azure nimbus]

UVmax is all kills and secrets. Items aren't required and can easily be impossible. Say an item is used as decoration or there are two computer area maps(you can only get one)

[mighty star]

Hopefully

[azure nimbus]

Some people like getting items. But it isn't part of uvmax

[mighty star]

Romero’s mapping streams are funny to watch

[sharp wyvern]

Is Hellion meant to be like

A Doom II prequel or….

Cause it’s following on from Sigil II

I mean obviously Romero isn’t really thinking about how it all fits into a timeline of course but like I’m just wondering

[mighty star]

It’s probably its own thing now

The Romero timeline

[sharp wyvern]

not on my watch…

[woven swallow]

hi new guy

[woven swallow]

why is the screenshot so small

[thorn jungle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1348211699924336680/1362053817427820776/image.png?ex=6800fef7&is=67ffad77&hm=c31af3832f209382094fb5a1a725864aabb619c751be7616b15ffc5754509258&

[woven swallow]

do you not have 16:9 monitor? or are you purposely making it look like dosbox

[thorn jungle]

i like it looking like dosbox

[woven swallow]

then put it 320x200, and then 4:3

also software not opengl

[thorn jungle]

mmm i like 768x400 better

[woven swallow]

yeah

wait a second....you do know you can take a screenshot in game right?

[thorn jungle]

lemme check

[woven swallow]

i can see the screen rec watermark

go to keybindings

[thorn jungle]

that's a different software

i have a record software (that i'll ditch now that i have OBS)

[woven swallow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1167762378197311528/1362055124096123123/doom12.png?ex=6801002f&is=67ffaeaf&hm=9c08013f0e1996aebb33002a182a64be35ffc366e2f51b2f1dee552fd509cb25&

[thorn jungle]

i see

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1348211699924336680/1362056113650008224/image.png?ex=6801011b&is=67ffaf9b&hm=e62dccf0be28eef226a68cdb824ad5ac1b212d0a9be6d10fcb894fa59768294d&

ooh, this option looks interesting

does it like stop time or smth?

[woven swallow]

idk

never used these

[thorn jungle]

i'll record myself having fun with this

[woven swallow]

i only use iddqd, idclip and idkfa

you can also fly

[thorn jungle]

video is compressed to fit Discord's 10mb limit

please bear with it

[sharp wyvern]

this slideshow goes hard af

[thorn jungle]

but srsly i recommend you try this cheat yourself it's so much fun

[sharp wyvern]

I may mess around with it..

[woven swallow]

bruuh, ms dos has more frames than this

[thorn jungle]

waiter, more frames please!

deleted the video before i get memed on even more lol

[thorn jungle]

suggest levels that you think would be fun to mess around with freeze time

[woven swallow]

okuplok

[thorn jungle]

that's a slaughterwad right?

[woven swallow]

yes

[vale gyro]

Slaughter-y enough where it took like a decade before anyone did it single segment

[thorn jungle]

mm, the more the merrier

[finite crag]

Continued UV-plutonia'ing anyway

I won't lie, levels 5-8 were not bad at all

Or maybe I was jut in a good mood lol

Ghost town was kinda fun lol.

Also, when I unleashed the Cyberdemon upon the revenants in Baron's Lair, I immediately thought of this:

https://tenor.com/view/let-them-fight-godzilla-ken-gif-9562555

[mighty star]

Unleash the beast

[marsh whale]

ghost town is the opposite of fun

[finite crag]

I thought it was kinda fun when doing it continuous

Baron's lair, Caughtyard, I also enjoyed

Realm was cool but Archvile jumpscare at the end was a bit annoying lol but I'll take it. It's plutonia.

I gotta give the Casali bros some credit since their maps do look really pretty

[mighty star]

Dario worked on Ravenholm for HL2

[finite crag]

I did do most saveless. I know we talked about it. I will try my best to do most levels saveless but of course I will still save during levels, and if I think 'meh, it's better that way', I'll just load a mid-game save

[mighty star]

Saveless pistol start or continuous?

Some of Plutonia’s levels are bitch to pistol start

[finite crag]

continuous

[finite crag]

I very rarely pistol-start. One time I did it was when I UV-max'd Limbo on Ultimate DOOM. To 'settle a score', so to speak.

[marsh whale]

I pistol started a few levels because I died

[rich anvil]

What if there was a mod that makes you start with 0 bullets and no pistol so you start every map with just ur fist (you have to kill a zombie man to get a pistol)

[finite crag]

In that case, just pistol-start, empty all bullets into wall, then quick-save

(Oh wait emptying bullets into wall attracts enemies lol)

[finite crag]

Sounds interesting

[sharp wyvern]

You could just… not use your pistol

[azure nimbus]

I've played something that did this. It's not really that interesting a concept. It does change a bit, but it's nothing crazy.

Obviously on a shorter map designed around tight ammo it can be a big deal. But on larger scale maps, 50 bullets is kinda hatever

[wise latch]

hey guys, when I try to load a DOOM 2 mod I get this message: Script error, "m12-hdoom_techdemo11.pk3:decorate/monster/revenant.txt" line 35:
'@property@missilechancemult' is an unknown actor property

what is the part I need to fix?

[sharp wyvern]

script error m12 what

[final moss]

Join my death match. Onecheekskeet

[azure nimbus]

Make sure that you're running it on an appropriate port. It sounds like it needs a zdoom(probably gzdoom) tor un

[woven swallow]

wait a second...

[thorn jungle]

maybe you unknowingly deleted the revenant data

the actor cannot be found, so the game won't run

[finite crag]

hire him back

[terse belfry]

what version of deathmatch? dos, Gzdoom, something else i dont know the name of?

[wide sinew]

Bump

[sharp wyvern]

yeah i thought the soundtrack sounded kinda off in the main menu version

[lunar rune]

Ignoring the DOOM wad you're playing, you most likely have an outdated version that didn't have the Revenant update?

I only know that because Midnight showed up on my feed with his amazing "YOU CAN'T WIN" whatever thumbnails

[lunar rune]

In general the new port seems to handle MIDIs really weirdly

[thorn jungle]

almost all of Midnight's thumbnails are like

• THIS IS DISGUSTING
• THIS IS ILLEGAL
• DON'T LOOK
• THIS IS SICKENING

among many others

[lunar rune]

It's so funny dude I love them so much

[jaunty karma]

Hi

[woven swallow]

hello new guy

[jaunty karma]

Wanna know something?

I'm making a mod

[woven swallow]

nice, what is it

[jaunty karma]

It will like replica the weapon graphics and I'm planning to use whacked to re balance the guns

[marsh whale]

Here are all the ones I can find

THIS IS DISGUSTING
THIS IS ILLEGAL
SOMETHING'S WRONG
A SAD TRAGEDY
THIS IS VERY BAD
(the infamous) YOU CAN'T WIN
THIS IS very ILLEGAL
IT'S OVER
YOU CAN'T ESCAPE
THIS IS MADNESS
THIS IS SO WRONG

[marsh whale]

like add custom weapons?

[wide sinew]

Nightdive needs to add back in the ability to play local multiplayer with single Joycons in the Switch version of Doom + Doom II like you could do in the Unity ports. That's like the one thing that the Unity ports had that Doom + Doom II are missing.

Hell, they should go a step further and make it possible to play single player with a single Joycon as well!

[marsh whale]

the KEX port is good enough as it is

[wide sinew]

Ok yeah, but it'd be nice to be able to have instant Doom deathmatch wherever you go without having to haul around extra controllers

[marsh whale]

I guess

[wide sinew]

That's like the ONE reason to keep the Unity ports installed on Switch

[marsh whale]

you would still be better off using a steam deck to play doom on the go anyway because the switch version removes a bunch of features from the other versions

[wide sinew]

Too bad I don't have a Steam Deck

Also, yeah, I REALLY wish Nintendo would get the stick out of their ass and allow the mod browser to be on Switch, but Nintendo's gonna Nintendo

Like, is having any mod downloadable on Switch REALLY all that different from making whatever you want in Stage Builder in Smash, or making any level in Mario Maker 2, or making any game you want in Game Builder Garage?

What, are they worried about people posting inappropriate mods on the mod browser? Do they not realize that that game is already rated M?

[sharp wyvern]

They should put Eviternity 1 and 2 in the featured mods

[wide sinew]

I just want them to add a new featured mod in general. They've only added Going Down and Going Down Turbo since Doom + Doom II released, and as a Switch player whose finished with Going Down Turbo, I'm ready for more!

[sharp wyvern]

It would totally mess up their current music system so I get why they haven’t but

Adding the PSX Doom and Final Doom soundtracks would be so sweet

[sharp wyvern]

So true ngl

[wide sinew]

Agreed

[sharp wyvern]

Also I really want Plutonia MIDI pack to be added but that’s just me being greedy :P

[wide sinew]

I don't think they realize that there are more Switch players than they think.

I have a PS4 with Doom + Doom II, but my Switch is my console of choice, so it'd be nice for them to add some more featured mods.

Also, I wish that the "[official]" text wasn't on Going Down and Going Down Turbo, because it sticks out like a sore thumb in the mod menu

[sharp wyvern]

Yeah though it isn’t a super quick process adding mods cause I imagine be they gotta get permission to do that and then they have to look through the mods to make sure there’s no inappropriate content

I know one mod had to have the soundtrack changed because a midi contained a reference to Doom 64’s theme

[wide sinew]

That's so weird... I could understand if something like, say, The Simpsons theme was in a mod, but a reference to something they own themselves being removed makes very little sense

[sharp wyvern]

Well they’d probably have to ask Aubrey for permission to just put it into another game

[wide sinew]

Oh true, he might own the rights to the music

That would also explain why Doom Zero had no issues with the secret level in it that's literally parts of E1M1 of Wolf 3D, Doom, Doom II, Quake, and Quake II all stitched together.

Btw, speaking of Wolf 3D, when is Nightdive gonna do that game? It's like the only classic Id shooter they haven't touched!

I'm hoping that'll get announced and shadow dropped during QuakeCon this year like all their other Id projects besides Doom 64

I mean, I GUESS they could do Quake III Arena instead, but Wolf 3D needs it more, since that game doesn't have the best track record when it comes to ports.

[sharp wyvern]

i was just playing wolf3d and wondering why they havent done a rerelease like DOOM + DOOM II yet

[wide sinew]

At least Quake III Arena has a really solid Dreamcast port, whereas the closest we've gotten to a perfect Wolf 3D port on consoles was on 360, which I heard has its issues.

[wide sinew]

Yeah, it's SUCH a no-brainer

Like I said, I really hope that's what Nightdive is doing for QuakeCon this year

I'd actually be somewhat surprised if we DON'T see that exact thing at QuakeCon this year

Cuz like, they did Quake in 2021, Quake II in 2023, and Doom + Doom II in 2024. Unless they skip a year again like they did in-between Quake and Quake II, I think it's at least somewhat likely that Wolf 3D is next.

Unless they do Quake III Arena instead

[sharp wyvern]

either one would be cool

[wide sinew]

I still need to pick up their remaster of PO'ed. That's still one of the greatest instances of an April Fool's joke actually being real imo

[mighty star]

It would be cool if they added the new Wolfstone content from Wolfenstein 2 and Youngblood

[sharp wyvern]

a legacy of rust or lost levels for wolf3d would be cool

[wide sinew]

If I had a nickel for every time an absolute meme of a game got an April Fool's Day announcement that it'd be getting rereleased later in the year, only for the joke to be that they were being serious and they're actually rereleasing said meme game, then I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice (for those who are wondering, the other game that happened with other than PO'ed was Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing, which got a rerelease on Steam this month).

[wise latch]

the weird thins is that I can run DOOM 2 just fine on it's own and I can even launch it with other mods like brutal doom. You think it could be my gzdoom that's out of date or something?

[thorn jungle]

i'm not really an expert in this, you could ask Coder or the other ones about it

althouth, since the error message mentioned revenants specifically, do those monsters function normally, or is there a problem?

[wise latch]

hang on I'll launch a level with revenants and check

crap I can't select a level that's not the first one

[thorn jungle]

idclev [any level with revenants]

example: idclev16

also, not important, but

"m12-hdoom_techdemo11.pk3:decorate/monster/revenant.txt" line 35:
'@property@missilechancemult'

am i seeing what i'm seeing?

[wise latch]

ok, summoned a revenant with console in vanilla DOOM 2 and it works normally

[thorn jungle]

does it alternate between guided and unguided missiles?

'@property@missilechancemult'

[wise latch]

not that I could tell. every missile it fired at me seemed to home in

[thorn jungle]

tbf doom 2 just does that

if a revenant wakes up on odd game tics, most of its missiles will be unguided

if it wakes up on even game tics, most will be guided

[wise latch]

lol

that's a weird distinction

so the error message basically says that it's missing the unguided missiles?

[woven swallow]

bro is down bad 💀 🙏

[wise latch]

strange that brutal doom loads in without any issues

[wise latch]

hey, I',m a certified monster girl enjoyer 🙂

[finite crag]

lol you're right

[wicked goblet]

I think it would be hard to market that nowadays for a big rerelease, like doom 1+2 not to say wolf3d isn't fun its just shows its age and wouldn't be much to work with making a new in house episode for it with how its engine is designed. I think the most they could do would be to bundle in a version of the Xbox arcade port with some touch ups and extra settings with a bundle of the reboot series but that's a bit of a stretch given the current gaming landscape

[finite crag]

Yeah WOLF 3D doesn't look as great compared to DOOM, and it is insanely confusing from what I hear

Does it have a minimap, even?

[wicked goblet]

hahahaha

[finite crag]

that's a no lol

[wicked goblet]

absolutely not

[finite crag]

yeah that sounds promising lol

[wicked goblet]

people programmed map editors to make maps of those levels back then

if there was a release with all the expansions plus the expansions of spear of density there would be a sharp drop off a good halfway through the original game where players would quit

rise of the triad was the way better choice to rerelease with all the bells and whistles (Andrew Hulshult)

[mighty star]

Nope, you need a source port for that

ECWolf is quite good

[wicked goblet]

man I remember listening to his idkfa album back when it was still pretty new and now its the definitive classic doom soundtrack after Bobby

[mighty star]

Spear of Destiny’s secret map drove me mental with the silent mutant hitscanners

[wicked goblet]

stupid stupid chest gun

[mighty star]

Jazz hands

[woven swallow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1167762378197311528/1362374409003733124/doom13.png?ex=6802298a&is=6800d80a&hm=122ba831251166b7d2e0f43bb2c4d26f4495767feab195d64187af301993ebab& beaten it again (trying to single segment it)

[velvet isle]

doom 1 is litreally fun thing to play with it

since i been exploring other places and such things

and yet i fucking love it

i might try doom 2 next if i want to

[sharp wyvern]

man deepest reaches is such a fun map

[whole crown]

What mod is this?

[woven swallow]

slaughter max

a megawad filled with hard slaughtermaps

https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/megawads/smax

[woven swallow]

doom 2 custom maps and mods go hard

[whole crown]

Work with prboom+?

[woven swallow]

yes, complevel 9 btw

[velvet isle]

honestly doom 2 might be probably overused for modding

[whole crown]

Alright. Thanks.

[velvet isle]

but true

[woven swallow]

doom 1 is kinda limited

[vale gyro]

Not really. I agree with Kenny, despite my own love for Doom 1 and Ultimate Doom

The original game just doesn’t have the monster variety

[hot owl]

It's the same engine, isn't it? It just has more content

So logically it would make sense to use that

[vale gyro]

Yeah, same underlying engine

Though Doom 1 behaves differently from Doom 2 and Ultimate Doom

And Final Doom behaves differently than even Doom 2

Useless information for most, but wanted to share that anyways

[hot owl]

It's neat to know 😭

[sharp wyvern]

I checked and it’s E1M8 of “Double Impact” that got changed

The original one sounds MUCH better with the Doom 64 intro

[mighty star]

Not a fan of fighting cacodemons and barons with a regular shotgun

[vale gyro]

I’m fine with the former

The latter can just be annoying when done too much

[mighty star]

Bullet sponge of Hell

[sharp wyvern]

Sigil II had me realise why Hell Knights were needed

[finite crag]

Beat Hunted on UV without saves...

What the hell was that, exactly

1% hp to spare

[sharp wyvern]

Hunted is so goated I love it

[finite crag]

I used to hate it, but now I'm more positive on it. Turning off the obnoxious background music helped for me, makes it more immersive

I do like that they were going for a stalker horror angle

"I am not being hunted by you, YOU ARE BEING HUNTED BY ME." -What I said while being clearly nervous and cautious in the maze

I'll also change my approach. Instead of trying to beat two thirds of the levels saveless I'll just go for half.

Atm the Plutonia map I dislike the most is Onslaught. Or Speed.

And yeah Gateway to Hell was also shit, but that's an Icon of Sin map, easy target really

[thorn jungle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1348211699924336680/1362426911565021214/image.png?ex=68025a70&is=680108f0&hm=a77252f9e3ac0d9753f9b86294bf673e88f523984a46ecf65d0256636fe2406d&

probably the most kills i've gotten on this map

[woven swallow]

1 hour?

[thorn jungle]

i take breaks

aaand oftentimes i hump walls and waste my time looking for armor/health bonuses

[woven swallow]

bruh, screw items just go for kills and secrets.

[thorn jungle]

i am planning to ignore my crippling OCD and ditch the bonuses

[finite crag]

I also got OCD and yeah I understand how it can feel

It's one reason why I try to saveless so much

[thorn jungle]

imo, E2M2 is one of the more boring maps in Doom 1, which is why i always procrastinated pistol starting it

(i have already done pistol starts for all the maps before it except E1M9)

[mighty star]

E2 is a meh episode in general

The cyberdemon boss is the only part I like

[thorn jungle]

me too

my least favorites are E2M2, E2M4, E2M5, and E2M7

i have mixed feelings for E2M6

[thorn jungle]

only really good thing i can say about E2M2 is that it makes me appreciate berserk even more

[median cloud]

I kinda like E2M2

the rest I can agree with

E2M6 is good tho

[thorn jungle]

though E2M2 also gives the blessing of no hitscan

[median cloud]

good map to do melee only

Doom really drops in quality past episode 1

episode 3 has a bunch of stinkers as well

[thorn jungle]

ugh, remind me about it.

E3M2, E3M3, E3M5, E3M7, and E3M8

E3M6 - Mt. Erebus is good tho

[median cloud]

I like House of pain as well

[thorn jungle]

awesome open world something level

[median cloud]

think thats E3M4?

[thorn jungle]

yep

[median cloud]

Thats where it ends however

E4 has some decent maps as well

I think I just prefer Doom 2 in general and I cant lie TNT has grown on me as well

[thorn jungle]

i've only made it past E4M2 that hellhole of a map

and i don't have the guts to do the rest of E4 yet

[thorn jungle]

on HMP, mind you

[median cloud]

Its the hardest map

[mighty star]

TNT is a mixed bag for me

[median cloud]

If you play Doom playthrough wise you usually start E4M2 at low health

Knowing some secrets like the soul in the lava makes it easier but still a tough map to do

[mighty star]

E4M6 is painful

[median cloud]

E4M6 is probably the hardest map in the set to pistol start

but if you do campaign you can get a BFG in E4M5 and it becomes easier

[thorn jungle]

the very first time i beat E2M1, i was at like 4% health and couldn't survive a second before being executed via firing squad

the second time, i had good health, about 98%

[median cloud]

Is this your first doom experience?

[thorn jungle]

not really

i've been playing for a year now, and only a few months ago i got the courage to try out E4

[median cloud]

Ah well I basically meant if you havent played the other doom projects yet

[thorn jungle]

i have beaten Doom 2 on HMP, now trying to beat it UV

and i have been considering NRFTL, TNT, and Plutonia

[median cloud]

Ah okay so you do have Doom 2 done already

[thorn jungle]

yes

[median cloud]

thats good going from Doom 2 to Doom 1 is funny

but kinda makes sense I guess I find Doom 2 to be the most accessible one

[thorn jungle]

ik it feels weird having no ssg and having to deal with huge crowds of zombies and imps

[median cloud]

gives the chaingun some use :p

[thorn jungle]

and of course, i've resorted to playing punchout with pinkies and spectres, as well as gunning down barons with the shotgun

it's ammo efficiency at its finest

[median cloud]

gunning down barons with a shotgun could very well be the least fun part about Doom 1

But yeah I can only advise you to play the other official map packs as well

[thorn jungle]

sadly it is what it is, looking at you E2M6 and E4M1

[median cloud]

NRFTL is beautiful and really well made, bit harder than Doom 2 but still doable
TNT has a certain charm to it but you will hate it on your first playthrough
and Plutonia is arguably the most infamous one for being difficult, but also the best one imo

Stay away from Master Levels though

[thorn jungle]

what's wrong with Master Levels

bad design?

bad balance?

[median cloud]

yep pretty much

horribly designed maps

just ugly and not fun to play

[mighty star]

Confusing level design

[thorn jungle]

ok that's noted

[median cloud]

TNT also has confusing level design but redeeming qualities imo

[thorn jungle]

gimme the advantages and disadvantages of TNT and Plutonia

[median cloud]

u mean pros and cons?

[thorn jungle]

yep

interchangeable probably

[twin mortar]

Killed my BFG Nightmare run

[median cloud]

PROS TNT: custom music for a bunch of maps, large scale maps if you like that, balanced difficulty, a certain charm other doom packs dont have

CONS TNT: Some maps are boring, long and very confusing. Bad balancing at times

PROS PLUTONIA: Best official mapset, very high action packed, great map balance

CONS PLUTONIA: Some maps can be frustratingly difficult

[twin mortar]

But I beat the base game on BFG NM so I'm happy

[median cloud]

off the top of my head

[mighty star]

Plutonia: Rigidly designed levels, good quality overall, utilised the archvile effectively unlike doom 2, however it is very difficult and is infamous for overusing revenants and chain gunners.

TNT: Level design is mixed, some levels can be short and or confusing, inconsistent in quality, difficulty is less than Plutonia

[vale gyro]

I found Plutonia much more boring (like I can’t even finish it past map05)

[finite crag]

Yeah this is good

[median cloud]

an unpopular opinion but its all subjective

[thorn jungle]

plutonia really likes their chainguns and bones

[finite crag]

I'm currently re-playing Plutonia and I'm still preferring TNT. Now, TNT also has its own flaws.

[median cloud]

I spent a lot more time in TNT looking for where to go than any other doom map pack

[finite crag]

It's hard to compare TNT and Plutonia. I will give Plutonia one thing over TNT, the maps look pretty. Casali bros knew what was up

[median cloud]

I do find TNT more casual and I really love some TNT maps

[vale gyro]

I didn’t have much trouble with most maps, bar map27

[median cloud]

Prison is one of my favorite doom maps ever

[vale gyro]

I will forever hate map27

[mighty star]

Didn’t the Casali bros work on some maps for TNT?

[finite crag]

Yeah TNT and Plutonia have some awful map endings for different reasons

TNT, the endings to two maps are awful because they are insanely confusing and obtuse (Central Processing and Administration Center, how was I supposed to find out how to get the exit?)

In Plutonia, some maps have a final fight that is insanely frustrating and trial-and-error and just not very fun

[finite crag]

they did

[median cloud]

I cant stand administration center but I rate central processing a 8/10

if you know where to go its a fun map

[finite crag]

I may have a skill issue, but I feel that a lot of maps in Plutonia have a trial-and-error aspect to them in terms of combat. If I manage to properly beat a level it does not feel like I did it by skill and intuition, but trial-and-error

I had that less with TNT

[median cloud]

Thats because a lot of doom combat is strategy based and not much raw mechanical skill

Aside from dodging projectiles aiming in classic doom isnt a big challenge

[vale gyro]

I love Central Processing

[finite crag]

Hmm fair, but I notice that in Plutonia I have to trial-and-error my way through shit much more

[median cloud]

The difficulty in tough doom maps comes from figuring out how to tackle a fight

[vale gyro]

Probably my favorite TNT

[median cloud]

Yeah its a good map, love the soundtrack with it and the outside area is nicely made

Prefer Prison tho

[thorn jungle]

it's more on the ammo management, ability to easily make monsters infight, memorization of map layouts for better movement, etc.

[median cloud]

Storage Facility I also like a lot in TNT

[finite crag]

I also noticed I needed to do quite a bit of camping in Plutonia, or just trial-and-error my way through it in a speedrunny manner

[median cloud]

and Steel Works can be cool

[finite crag]

With levels like Onslaught and Speed, some insanely obnoxious encounters

I remember finding Heck really cool in TNT

[median cloud]

Plutonia is less casual than TNT

I can hop on TNT whenever and just finish a map not really paying much attention

I cant really do that with Plutonia

[finite crag]

I do appreciate Plutonia, as trial-and-error'ish as it is, feeling a tad tighter sometimes

No out-of-the-way secrets, not a lot of red herrings from what I remember, just direct and to-the-point progression

[median cloud]

Go 2 it is crazy and no official doom pack really scratches that itch

[finite crag]

I imagine the bros laughing their asses off making that iconic map

[median cloud]

Hunted is also 10/10 for atmosphere

[finite crag]

Also, Plutonia had better bonus levels than TNT imo

[mighty star]

TNT’s secret level is broken because of a missing keycard

[finite crag]

I think Hunted's ending was a bit annoying and getting trapped by an Archvile can be frustrating, but overall, I respect them for giving a shot at Stalker Horror

I used to think Hunted was Plutonia's worst, but after replaying it saveless after many attempts, I kinda appreciate what they were going for

I love how I was constantly making taunts and badass quotes while I was nervous as fuck lol

[mighty star]

Archviles are scary

[median cloud]

I like 02 Well Of Souls, feel like Dark Halls features this map better than E1M3

02 is probably one of the maps I return to the most often

07 as well for being short and tight

[mighty star]

That one is fun

Mean traps tho

[finite crag]

I did not like Well of Souls much. Gorgeous map but some obnoxious parts, especially near the end (door locking behind me without it being immediately obvious you need to cross an invisible bridge, getting caught between Cacos after falling off, getting badgered by pinkies I can't see because I'm standing on elevated terrain, etc)

And also some switch trial n error

[thorn jungle]

ugh E2M4. Deimos fucking Lab.

[finite crag]

Congo: I kind of liked this after many attempts, bit of an acquired taste. I think it looks good tho, Casali bros know how to make a map look interesting and appealing
Well of Souls: Like I said
Aztec: Lovely design, some obnoxious parts but not too bad
Caged: I did not like this one at all.
Ghost town: This one was actually fun.
Baron's Lair: LET THEM FIGHT. Some trial and error but overall it was not bad, nothing that I'd call bullshit.
The Caughtyard: A very simple level, not bad.
Realm: Good overall but that archvile spawn at the end was just... ugh. Made me camp a lot and restart since I was low on good ammo.
Abattoire: Awful ending imo.
Onslaught: I despise this map. Just very frustrating in unfun ways, too cramped with a lot of obnoxious enemies, trial and error turned up to eleven with its gotcha's...
Hunted: I am now calling Archviles 'voldemort's
Speed: I did not like this one.

On my UV journey so far.

[finite crag]

I am now calling them things like 'Voldemort' and 'Neo Cortex' lol

I'd love to have an archvile enemy wearing a lab coat

[median cloud]

Does seem like you dont like the difficult parts much ahaha

Tho I do agree Plutonia is a bit cheesy with difficulty

and a lot of it is knowing whats to come

I personally like 09 - Abattoire fully tho

even the ending

[finite crag]

It's funny, I like difficult games sometimes. I used to be a big soulsborne challenge nerd, with level 1 NG+7 kills under my belt
And some of the levels I did like in spite of the trial and error and challenges

Like, Ghost Town, Baron's Lair, by no means easy, lots of attempts. But I appreciated them regardless

I guess I was not made for Plutonia lol

[finite crag]

true. A lot of doom games have that but I feel it is much more the case with Pluto

[median cloud]

No that makes sense they're difficult but more fair

08 and 09's difficulty comes from laying traps you dont expect and catching you off guard

[finite crag]

And of course, surprise Chaingunners, off-screen hitscanners that can and will screw you over, etc

[median cloud]

10 is also just a very evil map

A lot of other maps seem to be a bit less rough with the traps

Still difficult maps throughout the pack

[mighty star]

Plutonia has a really hard difficulty curve but gets a bit easier from what I remember

[thorn jungle]

i hope you ain't lying

[median cloud]

Ehh Im not sure if it gets easier....

map 10 is just evil

[thorn jungle]

cuz that seems to be contradicted by the countless people saying it's infamously the most difficult pack

[median cloud]

it is the most difficult official doom pack definitely

Except maybe legacy of rust is harder but I never played that one

[thorn jungle]

LoR is a pwad

[mighty star]

Legacy of Rust is a bit hard

[thorn jungle]

it adds new stuff

[mighty star]

The map before the final boss has a nasty revenant trap

[median cloud]

yeah but its an official mappack

[median cloud]

is it tougher than Plutonia?

[thorn jungle]

yeah it is

[mighty star]

It doesn’t have as many traps so no, at least in my experience

Most of the new enemies are cool additions though

[finite crag]

Damn I'm taking surprisingly long about Plutonia lol, 2 hours just to get 3 levels saveless (and a whole lot time spent trying to saveless Go 2 It and eventually deciding 'nah'). Well, it does make me remember the levels more, which is good imo

Oh yeah, The Crypt was a cool level, just like Genesis. What the fuck was The Twilight tho

The 'LET THEM FIGHT' meme played in my head again when I opened the gates in Go 2 It lol

[sharp wyvern]

E1M6 gets close tho

[pine violet]

I'm looking into compiling the Doom source code available on GitHub

Problem is it's for Linux and I'm a Windows user, it doesn't have music due to licensing reasons but I would like to fix that, the sound doesn't work for some reason and worst of all the dang thing won't compile at all I heard

Is there a way to fix these issues so I can play the unreleased Doom 1.20?

[woven swallow]

doom 1.20?

[woven swallow]

i never heard of that before, until now

[woven swallow]

DEAD CHAR

[thorn jungle]

E2M6 still remains as the most difficult map of the episode

[opal breach]

I have a question: but I know that Doom 2 start when doomguy returns from hell to earth (end of E3), so E4 of doom 1993 what is about?

[finite crag]

idk episode 4 never made sense at least to me

[thorn jungle]

E4's canonicity is ambiguous because it kinda contradicts E3 leading to Doom 2

[sharp wyvern]

Doom 2's manual already contradicted Episode 3 who even cares

I don't think it's an ambiguous canonicity thing I think it's just a "they didn't really care to make it make sense thing"

[thorn jungle]

E3's ending is hell gets to earth, causes a tiny ruckus, and Doomguy gets back to earth to deal with the mess

how're you gonna fit E4 in between that?

[finite crag]

it was all a dream

[sharp wyvern]

Episode 4 he's on Earth fighting off the demons already

[thorn jungle]

ah of course, the only logical explanation

[opal breach]

E4 it's between E3M8 of Doom I and E1M1 of Doom II

I think

[thorn jungle]

i was about to ask "why is E4M1 called Hell Keep" but remembered that the level titles are taken from phrases from the Bible

[sharp wyvern]

https://doomwiki.org/w/images/e/ec/E4_Text_screen.png

it's basically just doomguy fighting the demons near the gateway to earth and then going "oh shit there's way more there's way more demons oh it's all of earth"