classic-doom

[odd slate]

i played with brutal doom at the beginning of my first run, but i realised that brutal doom is adds only useless things that complicate all the gameplay

so i prefer to play vanilla doom

im now managing to complete the first doom on ultra violence and now im at shores of hell

[narrow condor]

I find Doom I so boring after being spoilt by Doom II.

Doom II has all the fun enemies that make up the stock combat puzzles we've all come to know and love, plus the SSG, which is practically the default weapon. Playing any complex (non-gimmick) map without SSG feels very unbalanced.

[dull portal]

SSG is the best weapon in gaming

Change my mind

[odd slate]

yes

but not every game that has the ssg its a good game

[rapid pulsar]

brutal doom should have a mechanic for like the guns with mags or smn where you throw the mag at an enemy when reloading it if theres an enemy close enough infront of you
that would be badass

[rapid pulsar]

yeah
but the ssg is always badass and good as long as the people who made the game get it right which usually they do

it doesnt MAKE any game though

[odd slate]

guys i just discovered how easy is to make a doom map

i want to write another piece of lore and a whole episode xD

[narrow condor]

Do it!

[rapid pulsar]

oh yeah im working on a doom mod thats not even about demons
its about a lone mercenary on enemy territory

so all the demons are replaced with soldiers, robots, drones, shit like that

weapons look different too, its pretty much total conversion

[odd slate]

pretty cool

[rapid pulsar]

plasma rifle is replaced with quake 2 hyperblaster

chaingun is an m249 machine gun now

[rapid pulsar]

hey can someone get me a download for the doom 2 wad that has the wolfenstein ss sprites? theyre broken on my download and i cant find one that has them

or just a download for the sprites themselves

[dapper flint]

You wouldn't steal a car

[rapid pulsar]

what

if you mean piracy then arent the wads free
the game came out in 1994 so why wouldnt it be
and i didnt know they werent

[dapper flint]

Wads are free not the games

[rapid pulsar]

im still confused

[azure nimbus]

The game isn't free. The source code has been released but not the assets, which include the sprites. The wolf sprites are still broken though. They have magenta pixels between their legs during shooting frames and also always visually face the player when shooting despite being able to shoot in any direction

[dapper flint]

The way I got the original wad files is getting a disc drive and buying the original copies

[azure nimbus]

All the IWAD is is a set of assets: levels, art, sounds. The code itself is released

[rapid pulsar]

thats not what i meant the sprites just arent there on my version

they all use the zombieman standing sprite for every single sprite

facing the player

[azure nimbus]

the IWAD in bundled with doom3 bfg edition has that. Steam version has the regular stuff at least

[rapid pulsar]

ok wait so if the same isnt free then ill just buy it on steam so its not piracy
i honestly didnt know it wasnt free since i was able to download the wads/iwads online

unless im just not understanding and i dont have to buy anything

[dapper flint]

It's a common mistake I was just bugging ya

[rapid pulsar]

so then
am i good

[dapper flint]

Yeah grab the steam versions in that case

[rapid pulsar]

ok

[azure nimbus]

yeah you can get it from steam, then right click -> manage -> browse local files -> base -> and you'll find doom2.wad with all the good stuff. Obviously -- this is a 30 year old game, there exist download links elsewhere. But steam costs what, a dollar now?

[rapid pulsar]

i already got steam

and i just bought doom 1 and 2 on steam

since i paid for it im guessing its not illegal to have a different wad of the same exact game

but i will download the doom 2 one to get the wolfenstein ss

ok wait new question why is it taking so long to download

[azure nimbus]

it should be almost instantaneous. The file is like...3 pictures worth

[ornate vortex]

was anyone there for the decino live stream?

It was like 70 players speedrunning sunlust all at once, including me

[jade solstice]

I’ve only just started “arrival” but I’m loving it

Has a really good vibe to it, almost like BTSX, idk

[narrow condor]

I've been meaning to play that. It's a 2021 Cacoward winner, isn't it?

[jade solstice]

Two actually

Soundtrack is amazing

(One of the awards)

Tbh I’m probably gonna stop playing it until I can play through the whole thing in 1 sitting since it’s 11 levels or something
It just has a really good feel to it - the presentation to it ig

[azure nimbus]

Remember, the only thing stronger than the BFG is the power of friendship. Infighting is cool

[hexed escarp]

can you have 512 or 1024 wide sky textures in doom 2? or can you only replace the ones in final doom

[narrow condor]

I think it's 1024 wide by default.

And yes, you can provide your own sky texture.

Textures* rather. You can have up to four different sky textures in the wad by default.

[steel lion]

man i have the worst pc to play doom,i have a intel cpu of 1.10ghz and 4gb of ram

[hexed escarp]

yeah i know this, but the default doom and doom2 sky textures are 256 wide and only the ones in tnt and plutonia are 1024 wide, and they are split up into multiple textures and called something else

[azure nimbus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHhihED8xRU maybe this'll help?

[vale gyro]

Is there any good map that would work under crispy? I am looking for Ultimate Doom maps but Doom 2 is fine

[near frigate]

Who could teach me how to speedrun doom 2?

[vale gyro]

Not a speed runner, but I think the movement bible will help you some

[near frigate]

where do i find this bible?

[vale gyro]

I’m unsure

[shell jackal]

The Steam version already comes with the uncensored DOS version

[rapid pulsar]

???
i use gzdoom
i dont like the way dos looks

[vale gyro]

…

For one, you have sinned if your using texture filtering. Second, it’s the iwad that’s uncensored

[azure nimbus]

you can use the iwad from steam and put that in gzdoom

[fickle adder]

dooom 2

[rapid pulsar]

i dont use texture filtering but i honestly dont know why people hate it so much

[narrow condor]

It makes sprites look like a blurry mess.

Texture filtering doesn't go well with pixel art in general.

[quasi wraith]

Bro i just beat doom 1, the bosses lowkey suck, i beat the spider mastermind in under a minute first try, then came in again with bfg and did it in 7 seconds

[narrow condor]

Yeah, bosses are more like beefy regular monsters.

[quasi wraith]

More like frail minibosses, i struggled vs a bundle of cacos more

[rapid pulsar]

i mean kind of???

[narrow condor]

It all depends on the context of the map design. Sometimes a caco cloud will be easy as pie to clear and sometimes a cyberdemon will make your life hell.

[azure nimbus]

Yeah bosses aren't really the strong suit. However, in custom maps, cyberdemons are put to good affect as a regular monster -- as a boss..ehhh

[narrow condor]

Yeah, I like them much better as regular monsters.

[azure nimbus]

They're infighting kings

[quasi wraith]

Just kind of let down by the finale being so underwhelming, im iffy on if i want to play doom 2 or jump into the WAD dimension

[narrow condor]

I personally recommend playing Doom 2 and following that with Plutonia.

[quasi wraith]

idk... heard doom 2 is mostly just more of the same

and doom 1 was kinda bland

[regal pike]

tell me why Deimos Lab just took me forever

[azure nimbus]

I do hope that you come back to the vanilla stuff as a historical artifact, but if you want to jump into stuff like scythe or skillsaw content, I get it

[narrow condor]

Doom 2 is definitely different from Doom 1 but, well, no guarantees that it's got whatever you're missing in Doom 1.

If it's something more fundamental, you might not find it in custom wads either.

[azure nimbus]

the vanilla maps definitely rely on getting lost more than newer maps that are more about combat

[narrow condor]

Plutonia could easily scratch that itch. :-P

[regal pike]

i keep getting rockets and rocket crates

i haven’t had the launcher this entire episode

[azure nimbus]

must be in a secret

[regal pike]

absolutely. i’m doing my best to uncover secrets but i’m also not checking every wall for secret doors, yknow?

i’m sure i’ve just missed it

[azure nimbus]

imo modern maps tend to do better with giving hints on secrets

[regal pike]

fully agree

wait i read that as newer games, if you mean new modded maps i can’t speak on that

[azure nimbus]

yes I mean modded maps, pwads

[regal pike]

my bad, still works for modern games too tho imo

honestly some of these campaign levels are already such a treat, i can’t imagine what fan content is out there

I JUST QUIT WITHOUT SAVING

[dapper flint]

If you're looking for a newish epic map one of my favorites of all time is hurt. And it was the authors second map. Couldn't recommend it more

[dapper flint]

You won't need the saves one day

[narrow condor]

The rocket launcher had better be optional. I hate it when progress becomes significantly more difficult if you miss a secret in a map. It's definitely a mistake on the mapmaker's end if you run out of ammo or are stuck with pea shooters against hordes just because you didn't find a secret.

It's my biggest pet peeve about map design.

[azure nimbus]

I've noticed with fractured worlds, they never(save 2 examples) hide weapons behind secrets. Map01's secrets for example are "berserk", "purple key", and "purple room". Most secrets in there are about more content or slight health boosts

[narrow condor]

I think it's okay to hide weapons or ammo behind secrets as long as not finding them doesn't cause an unexpected difficulty spike.

The secret mechanic is for rewarding the player, not for punishing after all.

[dapper flint]

I'm on a map right now that's giant Like a beast and it has 15 secrets. Out here giving me anxiety

[narrow condor]

Haha

Which wad?

[dapper flint]

Lost civilization map 20 I believe? 1600 enemies 6 keys per new area

Or 1200

[narrow condor]

Neat

[wild thistle]

How come when I add a new idle sound for the chainsaw, it doesn't loop the entire sound?

[regal pike]

yeah it seems like more of a bonus. considering every level is designed for pistol start none of the weapons seem crucial

[fickle adder]

I hate when I’m playing a map and I find a fucking bfg after the most ball breaking fight

as long as people can easily do it without that weapon then it’s good

Kinda like doom 2 map 01 with its secret rocket launcher

Overall not really a fan of secret weapons

[vale gyro]

Are there any good maps that don’t need boom and can just work fine with crispy?

[azure nimbus]

try tangerine nightmare

[flint prairie]

i have doom eternal and in de file there's doom and doom 2 wad. do i need to buy doom or doom 2?

like for lunch

in gzdoom

[jovial pond]

what do you guys prefer? brutal doom or project brutality?

[jovial pond]

nope

[vale gyro]

Nope. You just need an EXE to run the iwads. If you want vanilla, go with chocolate or crispy. If you want mods, go with GZDoom

[flint prairie]

wdym vanilla

[vale gyro]

Normal gameplay

No mods

Basically how people played it back then

But if you want mods like brutal doom, get GZDoom

If you want a more classic style, chocolate doom is the best option

If you want a limit removing version of chocolate with uncapped frame rate and higher res, among other features, crispy is the better option

[flint prairie]

what u play?

[vale gyro]

I use crispy doom

It has everything I need

But, can’t use mods anymore than a dehacked

I don’t use the high res or uncapped frame rate though

Though

There are other source ports out there

I am just mentioning source ports I know of decently

[vale gyro]

Question, how do I use the auto map effectively? Because I rarely use it

[vast reef]

use it to find areas you haven't been to yet

see where lines break off

[vast reef]

i used to use nothing but crispy doom (IF the wad was compatible, if not i had gzdoom and dsda doom for that) but switched to dsda because i like the options there better

[vale gyro]

What does dsda offer?

Because I only got crispy for its vanilla style and limit removing features

I then later turned on the level status thing in the auto map, brightmaps, and a demo timer

Might maybe turn on uncapped frame rate

[vast reef]

more versatile resolution changes

and i could stream it properly to discord

mainly because of said resolution changes

if that didn't exist or if crispy had those i'd honestly have crispy as my main port

[vale gyro]

I would not find it useful then

[vast reef]

yeah

i really do because i screw around with resolution a lot

[vale gyro]

As crispy’s resolution and widescreen is good enough

Though

What feature did you use on crispy?

Just want to throw that in there

[vast reef]

crispy was way jankier than dsda for me in terms of fixing up windows

[vast reef]

wdym

[vale gyro]

Meant settings

Autocorrect is getting dumber by every update

[vast reef]

default with some stuff altered, i don't remember specifically

all of them were cosmetic

[vale gyro]

I used the demo timer, the stats inside the auto map, brightmaps, and I think that’s it

Might turn on uncapped framerate

[vast reef]

ooh i should turn on stats inside the auto map

[vale gyro]

And maybe it’s high res

[vast reef]

i remember using high res for doom before trying it out at its original resolution and never went back

i only turn it up when i need to see enemies more clearly

[vale gyro]

I meant it’s high res textures

[vast reef]

oh

haven't tried those yet

[vale gyro]

Ah

Brightmaps do look good though

Makes the game a bit more bright with things that are meant to be bright

Like switches or armor bonuses

I do prefer the game to match my screen tbh

So I use widescreen and the match screen resolution option

[vast reef]

i just put it on 320x240

[vale gyro]

For me

When I put that on my curved widescreen

I know it’s gonna be a dot though n the screen

Plus the game still looks normal to me when it’s widescreen

So, that’s why I use it

I may like vanilla, but some things I will change to make it a slightly better experience

Oh, I forgot I also have randomly flipped corpses on

[vast reef]

i have a 16:10 monitor and the main way for me to scale it to that is to lower the vertical resolution to 200 instead of 240

and i'd rather not do that

[vale gyro]

Eh, at the end of the day it’s pure preference

[vast reef]

yeah

[vale gyro]

Tho. The high res textures don’t look blurry like texture filtering

At least if I can remember it correctly

But like I said, I think brightmaps look good

As, it looks like things are actually bright

And you can see them in the dark

I must stop this before I go too deep

[vale gyro]

Might try it, what’s the difficulty like?

[azure nimbus]

plutonic. the pwads that I played. the secret fight level is hard though

[vale gyro]

So, literal hell?

[azure nimbus]

plutonia is a stepping stone for a lot of modern wads. But there is still high quality content that isn't up there. like rowdy rudy 1 and 2, ray mohawk. Most of scyth2 imo. Jumpwad isn't hard, it's a collectathon platformer but it won't run on crispy. It's mbf compat

augur zenith is good, but I can't advocate for it directly, only from mtpain. There is a lot of great vanilla and limit removing content, but do consider something like woof or dsda that can run boom or mbf. They both still "feel" like doom so you won't miss out on the general gamefeel

[dapper flint]

Auger is a masterpiece

Lullaby tartarus and hurt are amazing also

My favorite maps I played this year

[azure nimbus]

hurt is gz. think they're going for a more classic feel

[vale gyro]

Do I need to compile dsda?

Because if I have to, I’m staying away from it

[azure nimbus]

it's extracting a zip file and telling zdl where it is

[vale gyro]

And, now I have to also get ZDL

Great…

[azure nimbus]

There are other ways to launch it, but ZDL is what I'm familiar with. It's also a download, extract, done. I use ZDL 3-1.1

[vale gyro]

If I can use the command line, I will

As dsda has widescreen support, unlike woof

[azure nimbus]

woof has widescreen. options -> general ->video-> third option down is widescreen rendering

[vale gyro]

Even then, it’s compile only if I’m correct

[azure nimbus]

download the zip file then extract. I'm not sure what compiling is. I've never had to do it and have been with woof since v7.

[vale gyro]

Ok

Even then

[azure nimbus]

can find the newest version on doomworld's "this is woof" post. Latest is 10.2.0

[vale gyro]

Both ports don’t have any features that would work for me

[azure nimbus]

like what?

[vale gyro]

dsda is meant for speed running

And that I know of, does not include the colored blood and brightmaps I liked from crispy

[azure nimbus]

woof has colored blood options, as well as mirrored corpses

[vale gyro]

But isn’t only MBF?

[azure nimbus]

you can turn it on whenever, as long as you aren't in strict mode

[vale gyro]

So it does have boom support or what?

Because what you said makes me clueless

[azure nimbus]

colored blood can be used on any comp level supported by woof. Woof supports cl2,3,4,9,11,21. So vanilla limit removing, boom, mbf, and mbf21. Either -complevel <number> or -complevel vanillla/boom/mbf/mbf21 work.

[vale gyro]

Welp

My tired mind is dumbfounded

[azure nimbus]

Woof and dsda can run vanilla maps, boom maps, and mbf, and mbf21 maps

Woof can also play those maps with colored blood

[vale gyro]

Ok

Now my brown is less confused

Anyways, ima go back to dying in my bed

[azure nimbus]

There are a lot of vanilla maps to play. Alien vendetta, scythe, tang nightmare, 3 h de agony, plut2, so on. But I think you get to keep the vanilla "feel" with boom and even mbf21 (mbf less so since infighting is weird). So I do recommend giving it a go

[vale gyro]

Though, I’ll forever prefer crispy

But if I ever have the skill to play boom maps

[azure nimbus]

oh, woof does have brightmaps

[vale gyro]

I guess I’ll have the option

[vale gyro]

It does?

[azure nimbus]

general -> display options.

boom maps aren't automatically harder

ooh I forgot about Struggle Antaresian Legacy. Somehow, it's all vanilla

[vale gyro]

Ik, but most of the hardest maps are boom only

From what it seems

[azure nimbus]

many are. But it's not a rule

[vale gyro]

But still

[dapper flint]

[vale gyro]

Just saying, the I find HMP hard as hell while everyone else I’ve met can play UV like it’s ITYTD

That puts my skill in perspective

[azure nimbus]

Sure dimensions is boom, but so is ancient aliens and preacher. Complevel is not a skill meter. I'm not bragging to the cute girls that I can play jumpwad on cl11

[vale gyro]

Never said complevels mean skill

I’m still kinda unsure if I want to

You know, set up a third source port

Took me a month to set up crispy perfectly

Don’t want to spend 3 months learning complevels and setting up woof rn

Just to not find a map

[azure nimbus]

Try not to get too intimidated by complevels. Every wad you download will tell you what complevel to use and you'll enter -complevel # in the command line and never worry about it. Set up is just going through the relatively short options menu and enabling always run.

[vale gyro]

I actually don’t use always run

It gets in the way in my muscle memory

And my pinky is perfectly fine with it

[azure nimbus]

well that's dedication

[vale gyro]

Back to dying in my bed

[finite crag]

should i play dos box doom or unity doom?

[azure nimbus]

if you want the most classic experience setting everything up and needing to use lower graphics, try dos. unity is the easiest to set up as it's right on steam, but it's a weaker port. in particular since you have to watch all the Bethesda stuff on start up. Look through dos setup guides and try unity, and look through different ports to see what is best for you and the levels you like

[untold hawk]

hi guys, need help

[untold hawk]

since you're asking you're prob playing first time, you should either use ChocolateDOOM for authentic expirience or unity doom if you want a more modern but still classic experience

[untold hawk]

I want to play brutal doom / PB but i really don't know where to get huds and if the quickwheel is part of bd/pb or a different mod

pls help

[finite crag]

i'm playing doom 2 for the first time i beat doom 1993 on unity

[untold hawk]

👍

[mortal beacon]

I’m lovin voxel doom

Such a cool idea

[unreal pike]

anyone know this? https://twitter.com/sickcodes/status/1558881540066594817?s=20&t=4vJYhz_01opWQk_x4vMBMQ

Sick.Codes (@sickcodes)

With epic just-in-time help by NZ based doom modder @Skelegant. She helped get this run using DeHacked Doom, since gzdoom was a mission. Together, we teamed up to make this happen. She is amazingly talented.

Likes

440

Twitter · Aug 14, 2022, 6:21 PM

[vital knoll]

Enjoy, good game.

[hexed escarp]

help i accidentally turned on something in udb that i dont know how to turn off

it makes the 3d editor have gravity

[vital knoll]

Best old-school wads?

[halcyon willow]

Press 'g' in 3d mode

[hexed escarp]

oh ok thanks

[ornate vortex]

General question, once i've done with speedrunning rush.wad, should I start speedrunning Eviternity or Ancient Aliens?

Both wads imo are excellent, and so i'm kinda stuck

[vital knoll]

Eviternity

Tape it

[azure nimbus]

or use demos lol

[grave flower]

I have questions about mapping -

Is there a way to stuff an intermission screen between every level?

Not sure what a good resource for this is

[narrow condor]

You can do that with GZDoom but AFAIK it's not doable with vanilla and Boom.

[azure nimbus]

can ummapinfo do it?

[hexed escarp]

yeah you can do that with umapinfo

that is probably the way that will be supported by the most ports

[vale gyro]

hmm

I might look into getting Nugget Doom

as it is a fork of Woof, which I’m also looking into

[grave flower]

Hmm, okay

Second question: Is there a way to make a switch change the map music?

[hexed escarp]

maybe in zdoom/gzdoom but definitely not otherwise, but i dont know anything about zdoom or gzdoom

oh you can do it in zdoom using acs

there is a function called setmusic

hope that helps

[dapper flint]

I started about a year ago. Still need yo upload it all

[grave flower]

IT DOES 😄 ty

[hexed escarp]

np

[grave flower]

Guess I'm making a gzdoom wad

[hexed escarp]

or just plain zdoom

[grave flower]

yeah, but might as well go all-in and force freelook and gzdoom-specific hacks

Nah you're probably right

[hexed escarp]

you do whatever you want to, it is your map

the intermission screen images can be done without zdoom tho, just with umapinfo'

[grave flower]

Nah, not images, the map07 text blurb things

Wait

They are also images lol

[hexed escarp]

ohhhhhh text screens

oh in that case im not sure you can do that with umapinfo, but maybe you can, lemme check

[grave flower]

Yeah, I want each map to be a chapter in the doom guy's story

[hexed escarp]

ok, lemme look rq

[grave flower]

Tyty

[hexed escarp]

ok yes you can

you cant do it before the first level

because it is done when you finish the level

but you can do it inbetween all of the other levels

and you can change the image behind the text screen

[grave flower]

Perfect

I've got my work cut out for me then - before I can even do that, I need to make encounters that are fun and maps to put them in lol

[regal pike]

is the Doom Eternal tyrant based on the 1993 cyberdemon?

literally identical

[azure nimbus]

Yes. Ancient Aliens Map01 does this in boom

[slim willow]

not with a switch i dont think. but there is a boom trigger

[azure nimbus]

you press the use key in that map. What exactly is going on in the map editor, idkk

[slim willow]

you teleport and trigger the music changer when you enter the second part of the map. i dont think the switch activates it

[azure nimbus]

I wonder if you could cheat it in vanilla by making a monster's wakeup sound a different song

[slim willow]

i believe the sounds are actually fixed in terms of how long they are allowed to last. but i will try this right now

[azure nimbus]

make it loop with a very long attack duration + fall asleep after attack so it has to wake up again. lost souls fall asleep but have no wake up sound

[grave flower]

I'm doing a bunch of slaughter/combat puzzle theory now

I have a spreadsheet that describes monsters in terms of hp per map unit, and dps in terms of map units of space reclaimed per second

I may be overthinking this - but I want to make slaughter fights that are entirely RNG-free with the right strats, yet still brutally difficult

I played Abandon map03 today, and I loathe the first fight because if the cyberdemons decide not to shoot, you just lose the first fight

I also grow bored during cleanup, and want to add a button that just clears the map for you, a UVMAX button so you aren't potato hunting for an hour for the last kill

Or maybe just to clear arenas

Fights usually feel won after about half the kills imo

[azure nimbus]

you get too precise with it and you might notice that the calculations don't factor in: monsters in the back can't hit you. their projectiles hit enemies in the front. bumping around tends to make enemies less aggressive. Some attacks are easier to dodge than others. Wide monsters take slighly less splash, especially so for groups

[grave flower]

Except for cybieblobs or creative vile shenanigans

I plan on heavily self-playtesting, and I refuse to release any fights I can't clear 5 times in a row

My calculator actually has an estimated blast damage multiplier with recommendations for various demon blob types

Imps tend to take 3x blast damage in packs, mancubi like 1.5, stuff like that

In terms of preventing low aggression and lacks of infighting from bricking fights, any ideas?

I could make modded mobs with fixed behavior, but that is boring maybe

I don't want to have to rely on more than a large-scale and regular level of infighting hmm

[azure nimbus]

what do you mean with the 3x calculation

[grave flower]

Shoot a non-cybie/spider demon, it takes 1x blast damage

2 enemies, one takes full, one takes 128-( roughly monster width*2 plus a bit) damage

Higher multi for smaller, tighter grouped enemies

Surrounding enemies taking half damage is an inaccurate but useful overgeneralization

If an imp has 6 imps around it, the rocket can easily do 3x its normal blast damage, maybe more

(Capped at HP per application though)

Rocket damage calcs are super super wonky - a rocket is worth anywhere from 2 to 4 times as much as a shell due to mob density

(Bullets, shells and cells have fixed values though, of 10, 95 and 76ish damage per ammo on average, and my sheet lets you fuck with the pellet/tracer count to get adjusted ammo valuations)

I should sleep, sorry for the math spam

I'll try to build something useful like a not-horrible pacifist first fight tomorrow

[slim willow]

so

i got it working

you need a port that can disable the sound cutoffs though

[azure nimbus]

I'd be super interested to see if you could predict how many rockets it takes to kill x number of monsters of the same type and see it tested. Especially with rocket rng being huge and with the fact that rocket distance calculation for blast damage isn't the pythagorean theorem but is instead max({x,y})

[azure nimbus]

dos compat moment

[grave flower]

Yo ok

Good stuff

I want a completely pitch black arena that idmus's you and lights up and starts filling with bullshit

[grave flower]

Good idea - I need to test in a couple separate scenarios too

[slim willow]

you just need to have the sound file match your preferred music output

[grave flower]

Easy

[slim willow]

yes

looping though...

[grave flower]

Probably finr

I have a 24 minute midi

[slim willow]

it cant be a midi. it has to be in doom sound format

[grave flower]

Oh right hm

[slim willow]

its a sound effect that thinks its a song. like duke 3d's intermission screen

[grave flower]

That is trickier

[grave flower]

I suspect the "hallway imp flood" and "big open imp blob" scenarios are going to yield very different results based on how cross-sectioning and brownian monster movement works

[azure nimbus]

I wonder if my "feels" calculation lines up with what tested values you get. I think with lots of revs, you'll approach 3 rockets per 4 revs. with mancs, prolly getting 3 rockets per 1 manc. MAYBE you get a 2 here or there?

[slim willow]

i was going to share the wad but its 15 gb

time to compress. lmfao

[grave flower]

If I estimate a 3x blast damage multi on average for revs at 40 map units, my calculator spits out 346 damage per rocket on average

[slim willow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/951569115074670676/1014022685963071519/mus.wad

just a basic test map that uses a mancubus as the sound trigger

[grave flower]

Which is 6 rockets for 7 revs, a bit lower than your estimate

[slim willow]

song is Chicago Typography by Cammy

[grave flower]

Will test when at a pc tomorrow, I really appreciate it

Insanely awesome of you to test 😄

Thank you

Oh, I didn't know it was non-pythagorean

[azure nimbus]

3/4 = 6/8 is just barely different than 6/7 lol.

[grave flower]

Maybe 4x is more realistic?

True lol

[slim willow]

well half of it at least. its also low quality and with some shitty midi to mp3 website soundfont

[grave flower]

I'll test against a 1000-blob and see how many 100 rockets ends, in both hallway and arena situations

[azure nimbus]

yeah blast damage just does "is the x difference higher than yl? If so, use the x dist, else use y." The max({x,y}) "sphere" is a square that has infinite height'

[grave flower]

So the worst between x and y, interesting

Worse than pythagorean

[azure nimbus]

that's why viles don't deal consistent damage

[grave flower]

By sqrt(2)/2 percent assuming normal x,y distributions

Hmm

[azure nimbus]

if you are directly to the east of a vile, then all of your real distance from the explosion is accounted for by the max calculation

[grave flower]

Oh fucking it's direction-dependent?

[azure nimbus]

but if you are northeast of the vile, then only one dimension of your distance vector matters

[grave flower]

Or is it mirrored/flippable

[azure nimbus]

imagine being east 1 real distance unit away

that translates to 1 max({x,y}) blast damage unit

[grave flower]

Oh! Right, the x stops mattering if y is too big and vice versa, that's intuitive

[azure nimbus]

but if you are 1 unit northeast away, that translates to 1/sqrt2 right?

[grave flower]

But not really

Still 1

I get it, damage is higher on equal distances, lower when slanted enough

Ugh, yeah that's getting estimated and otherwise ignored

Wait. No.

Damage is always higher than pythagorean

Sorry had to work through it but I'm there now

[azure nimbus]

maybe drawing it on desmos will help

[grave flower]

Difference between Pythagoras and this is either 0 for pure axis hits, or sqrt2/2 for 45 degree hits, gradient between

I got it now I'm pretty sure - and this means enemies are closer blast-wise than they appear

[azure nimbus]

it'll be the same for 90 degrees.

right angles are the same

wait---no I literally just drew It I'm dumb

[grave flower]

(On average, sqrt(2)/4 closer right, and thus sqrt(2)/4 more damage, but very encounter-dependent)

Sorry not 90

Max damage disparity is at 45 degrees

(And 135, etc.)

Took a while, but you made me remember trig 😄

[azure nimbus]

no I was right. right angles are samsies

[grave flower]

Yea I was thinking and meant 45's

[azure nimbus]

should I dm you an interactive graph? It's frankly...irrelevant for map design but cool to look at

[grave flower]

You can, but I've got it formula'd now

Visualization will help for the decino-style slaughter combat puzzle guide and weapon choice guide I'm working on tho

[azure nimbus]

sobad discussed it in a howtodoom video, to shoot along the sides of the horde, not corners

[grave flower]

That's pretty intuitive stuff though

[azure nimbus]

oki

[grave flower]

What clears space faster - rocketing imps, or arachnotrons?

[azure nimbus]

imps

[grave flower]

And what clears space faster with BFGs?

Assuming 35+ tracer usage

This is the absurd level of detail I plan to go into

[azure nimbus]

the way you ask, it sounds like arachnos. I still feel like it's imps. I'd have to test that. less confident there.weird stuff can happen where tracers don't plan out perfectly

[grave flower]

Yeh, arachnotrons win

Imp is 1600 square map units

Tron is 13864

Rocket kills 4 imps or 1/3 a tronish

But bfg clears 40 imps or 7 trons

It's not even close

[azure nimbus]

right but arachno hitboxes are so much smaller than they are, especially with blockmap stuff. Be surprised if it actually killed 7 with blockmap stuff

[grave flower]

Agreed

This is mostly for blockmap-fixed ports

Because that bug is dumb and ruins games

[azure nimbus]

whether this partiular comparison pans out, rockets good against enemies that group well, and bfg does well against everything

blockmap is life

does mbf21 fix the blockmap?

[grave flower]

Yea a full inventory of cells averages 36k damage assuming 35 tracers

Dunno, I think so?

I forget when blockmap fixes were patched in

Despite playing doom since 94 I'm new to the modding scene

[azure nimbus]

well, have fun testing

[grave flower]

Yeah I'll let you know how many revs 100 rockets kills in various situations

Is there a best port or best compat to run this at?

Gnight, and thank you a ton!

[azure nimbus]

dsda or woof. cl2, 9,or 21 I suppose. 11 too but I don't think you'd like the infighting

realized why my intuition was different arachnos take forever to become transparent. yaknow how it a long time after the killing blow before you can walk through them. imps have a shorter animation

[grave flower]

Oh, I need to collect stats on death timers

Very relevant in near-checkmate scenarios, like trying to wiggle bfg through hordes

[azure nimbus]

make sure to check your numbers against your feelings after playing for so long

[vale gyro]

I must ask a question that I cannot get an answer on anywhere: Is Woof limit removing? I think it is because of -complevel 2, but I just want to make sure

[azure nimbus]

yes. it can run limit removing stuff. use cl2 for it

[vale gyro]

Cool, thanks

[azure nimbus]

obviously, any levels within vanilla limits will also work on cl2 perfectly fine

[vale gyro]

So nugget doom or woof may be an option

Because it I can get it running how I like it, I could use it as my main source port when running a majority of maps

[azure nimbus]

idk much about nugget. if you find it intriguing, go for it.

[vale gyro]

It’s a fork a Woof, adding some features like extra gibbing, and adds some features from crispy that Woof does not

The most recent update of it was in June of this year

[azure nimbus]

woof might have some now. check the patch notes. nugget was forked a long time ago. but it def doesn't face extra gibbing

extra gibs are cool but I save that for quake. totally preference though

[vale gyro]

Also

Woof does have a 64 bit bit version

Unlike Nugget

So, maybe Woof

[azure nimbus]

does that matter? I'm not saying it doesn't. I literally don't know. dint think the latest 10.2.0 has a64bit but I'm not sure

[vale gyro]

Yep, it does

[vale gyro]

Even though you’ve told me to just run it

I think Woof needs to be compiled

Also

Why does it have an MS-DOS EXE?

[broken elk]

hey whats that thing people use in the bottom left to see how many of the kills, secrets and items they have?

is that a gzdoom thing or like from crispy idk

[vale gyro]

Crispy has one

Idk about GZDoom

But It’s also in PrBoom+

[broken elk]

dang

[slim willow]

I know it's a thing in PrBoom+ and DSDA-Doom. GZDoom might have something similar but I am unsure.

[vale gyro]

Anyways, can anyone explain why a modern port has a MS-DOS executable?

[broken elk]

ohhhh

its on gzdoom in the map on the top left

i found something called secret count in the options and it was for automap

shows monsters killed and secrets

ok so i cant find the last secret in e1m2

lemme guess its the armor at the start

[slim willow]

did you go the way to the chainsaw room and open the wall

[broken elk]

wait

secret seption!>?!?!??!>!

so there is a wall that goes down in the chainsaw room

ive gotten the saw of chains

[narrow condor]

There's an external addon for it for GZDoom that I use.

https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?t=60356

You need to load levelinfo.pk3 like a regular -file. I recommend tweaking it a bit in the options because the default settings show too much info and are rather ugly in my opinion.

[plain orbit]

Recommend play for better experience Plutonia II with Brutal or classic mode?

[ripe python]

Brutal

[plain apex]

oh come on its related to zandronum

why is this bot allowed for

[azure nimbus]

"woof.comis Windows executable. It's a hack to allow console output.
If you type woof in console (cmd.exe) it will run woof.com first" -- rfomin when I asked the same thing. LIke I said, idk what compiling even means. I just use zdl and go from there after extracting the file. I'm sure you can command line it if you're cool

[azure nimbus]

plutonia II is designed for vanilla cl2. So you're most likely to get balanced fights there

[vale gyro]

Tried it

and the automap is gross

And idk how to make it more accurate to vanilla

Because as I’ve said, it’s disgusting

This is pretty much what I meant when I said I’d rather not spend 3 months getting a source port set up

[vale gyro]

Found an other thing I hate

I can’t use save files from Crispy/DOSBOX in Woof

Which is not a big deal because I still have Crispy

But still

[azure nimbus]

in setup->automap, you can change colors and such. Turn on/off follow, and overlay mode. I don't know what dosbox's automap looks like, but there is so much customability in there that it should be able to replicate it

[vale gyro]

I got it to look better

[azure nimbus]

the setup tab has a bunch of stuff that you might like: blocky spectres(so they look like the more visible low res version despite the higher overall resolution), mirrored corpses, colored blood, automap stuff, customizing your doom hud with color indicators, customizing the advanced and extended huds to show different things, look like boom's or emulate crispy's

[vale gyro]

I do prefer Woof’s save file menu

My laptop (which I’m using to isolate the files just in case they are malicious) does not have pageup/pagedwn keys, so I cannot use Crispy’s extra pages

While Woof uses the arrow keys

But I guess I’ll use Crispy as my main

Woof for boom/mbf compat maps

and DOSBOX when I need pure vanilla

[gritty valve]

should i buy some doom floppy discs

[vale gyro]

when I last checked, they go for thousands

[dapper flint]

If you can find them I highly recommend it. You can get some from the Romero games store. Autographed and everything

[finite crag]

I'm pasting what I wrote in #general

since it's better here

I'm new to FPS games. Been going through the Doom series and started with Doom 64, which blends twitch with survival horror. I fucking love it. However, when I play original Doom I get bored after a few levels. Meanwhile 64, I can't stop playing. I made this thread on r/doom asking tips to enjoy the original Doom. Apparently the answer is to play expansions or map packs?

It seems Doom is a game that has the core fps fundamentals down but it's the expansions and fan packs that made it the game it is, not the original ID Doom maps.

@finite crag sup
for source ports i recommend
PRBoom + UM (for mega wads like sunlust, Return to Saturn X and valiant)
crispy doom (for only playing vanilla)
and GZDoom (for playing mods like Brutal Doom and Hideous destructor)

if u have doom2.wad then most of work is done since alot of mods and megawads require doom 2 instead of doom 1

i still don't know what a source port even is

its a series of "launchers" for doom

every serves diffrent purpose

to play in one
u need to download the source port
and drag the doom2.wad into
<source port name>.exe

if u would get tired of dragging i would recommend downloading ZDL which can speed up the process of launching doom stuff

[dapper flint]

Gz doom is also great for amazing single map sets other ports just can't do. Lulluby, hurt, tartarus as some examples

Eternity for Heartland also if you don't mind getting a port for one wad

[vital knoll]

It has been said, but welcome to the FPS genre and I'm glad to hear you loved Doom 64. I did too. Doom I and II just might not be your cup of tea -- 64 is a much different experience. But play around with some sourceports and try some community wads and/or mods.

Doom I and II, as well as Final Doom were released on Ps1 -- they are different in a number of ways, including the music being carried over from 64 instead of the original games. There are ways to play those versions on PC. I'd highly recommend them.

Variety is the spice of life, and there are endless ways to play classic Doom well beyond the base iwads

[azure nimbus]

As much as I like the og levels...they're good for the time. Fan content is where it's at imo

[broken elk]

guys i need fast help where is the pk3 for doomrpg

im trying to install the replayability modpack

or as i like to call it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cpsm9pcnQ2s
this video

[finite crag]

These look fantastic

I'm confident I'll find some way to like og Doom!

Especially given I love Doom 64 so much

[dapper flint]

Look into doom 64 ex and CE in that case. Thank me later

[finite crag]

Going to play through the doom games vanilla first

Then I'll try mods

[broken elk]

can someone help me

[pearl osprey]

Well we can't help you if you don't say what you need help with

[azure nimbus]

he wants doomrpg pk3s

[dapper flint]

Doom 64 ex CE are just ways to play fan made maps much like other classic doom source ports. Not exactly mods

[pearl osprey]

https://github.com/WNC12k/DoomRPG-Rebalance

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1013572255592230973/1014268772577710182/unknown.png

[broken elk]

yes i downloaded it and put it in a folder with some other mods

[vivid vine]

Man that entire video doesnt mention MetaDoom

[broken elk]

?

ok so

[cloud kayak]

Beans

[broken elk]

zdl needs wads or pk3 files to put together, and i dont know how to compile a folder

dont wanna be rude but yeah

[vernal thunder]

I'm gonna try play episode 1 on UV and I will post here for every death

[vital knoll]

That looks like dogshit

[broken elk]

kinda true ngl

[vital knoll]

Way, way, way too much shit going on

[broken elk]

yeah but still i want to try it

a lot is just rpg and rla stuff

---

or i cold just open them up without zdl

wtf it works kinda

wait no

it opened each of them respectedly

[vernal thunder]

I beat the first level of doom for the first time!

[azure nimbus]

noice

[broken elk]

did you get all secrets

and items and kills

in 8 seconds

[vernal thunder]

Not all items but I did get all kills and secrets (3:30)

[broken elk]

wow

yeah items are female dogs

[vernal thunder]

Ooo that big ambush room in e1m2 was cool

[broken elk]

what?

[vernal thunder]

E1m2 complete

[broken elk]

dyno is wired here

epic

[vernal thunder]

E1m3 complete moving on to the secret lad

Secret level complete

Command control is now complete

Thats Phobos lab done

[broken elk]

how do you know hwere the secrets are even if its your first time?

@vernal thunder

[vernal thunder]

I watched like a million walkthroughs

[broken elk]

yeah some levels are annoying for the first time

[vernal thunder]

I'm bad at mazes and Dooms a mazee game so to prepare my self I watched 73938682 walkthroughs

[broken elk]

good good

ok i gtg sleep now so type faster

[vernal thunder]

Also I'm not 100% levels I'm just getting the ones I need

[broken elk]

nice

[vernal thunder]

Goodnight

[broken elk]

k

gn

[shell jackal]

you clearly haven't played Wolfenstein 3D

or better yet, Spear of Destiny

[vernal thunder]

Yeah I'm not putting myself through that hell

[shell jackal]

But yeah, Doom's levels get pretty mazelike

The automap helps out a TON on your first playthrough

After that it's smooth sailing

[vernal thunder]

I gotta admit something.
There has to be nothing that feels cooler than running out of shotgun ammo but using your last shell on a shotgunner while being chased by a pinky and killing the pinky with the shotgunners dropped ammo

[dapper flint]

Running into the shotgunner and grabbing the ammo mid drop for another few shots

[vernal thunder]

Central processing has been processed... Centrally?

[vale gyro]

I would not call them launchers. They are just the executables for the IWADS. A launcher is something like ZDL

[vernal thunder]

I am now moving on to the final level of episode 1

I can now say I have beaten episode 1 of doom

[ornate vortex]

You thinking of going beyond the commercial doom games?

like once you're done and confident

[finite crag]

i didnt called them launchers i called them "launchers" to simplify their meaning

[vernal thunder]

I am doing the switch versions

[opal falcon]

I need to get back to episode four of the original.

[ornate vortex]

Ohhhh

[vernal thunder]

That would be difficult

Hmm it's got an add on screen on the home menu

This ports got tfc

[opal falcon]

I need to watch a walkthrough for mission six of episode four, because I'm sure there's a much easier way to complete everything, I just keep getting confused by one of the puzzles.

[vernal thunder]

I've never done thy flwsh consumed but it looks... Interesting

[opal falcon]

And my invincibility powerup fades right as I reach the Cyberdemon, resulting in my death multiple times.

[vale gyro]

This is a “The floor is made of floor” IQ moment

[narrow condor]

Perhaps you can beat the cyberdemon without the invulnerability.

:-)

[vernal thunder]

I'm startin ep 2

[vale gyro]

noice

[opal falcon]

I've tried without invulnerability.

I maybe could, but I keep screwing up.

[shell jackal]

Source ports are unofficial modifications of the engine, usually with added features and tweaks.

e.g. removing engine limitations, hardware rendering, support for higher resolutions, FPS interpolation, easier support for mods, etc.

Not sure why they're called source ports myself, but my best guess is that they're named that because the earlier source ports were porting the released source code - which was for the Linux port - to DOS and Windows

The different source ports also are tailored to different tastes, so there's a lot of variety out there.

[vale gyro]

To add onto this

I think Chocolate Doom is best tailored for your needs right now

As you don’t want mods and want a vanilla experience

And don’t need the features of Crispy

[vital knoll]

UAC labs, read the text files before playing in the dark

Do it

[finite crag]

GAD. DAMN.

DOOM II obliterates OG Doom.

[dapper flint]

They're both fantastic

[vital knoll]

A lot would actually disagree

[pearl osprey]

Once you try out the SSG you can't go back

[vivid vine]

Since not every level even gives you one you kind of have to

[rapid pulsar]

am i the only one who thinks the brutal doom smg looks like the quake 2 blaster?

[hexed escarp]

is there any particular reason why the movement keys in udb are esdf instead of wasd?

[prime grotto]

I think it's because some of the commands in visual mode need W, Q, and A

[muted pivot]

i pirate all my wads lol

[slim willow]

[dapper flint]

Alot would disagree that doom and doom 2 are great.. doubt

[regal pike]

i assumed they meant disagree about 2 > 1

[hexed escarp]

how do i control which direction a boom conveyor goes in

like, i understand that it is the direction that the linedef is facing

but how do i know if it is forward or backward

[vital knoll]

Yes that’s what I meant

Many dislike Doom II’s level design

[vale gyro]

Agree. As long as it’s not Episode 4

I still fucking hate that episode

[slim willow]

episode 4 needed some more time in the oven. really bizarre pacing there

[vale gyro]

Also

I need to get started on the 4th map of sigil

I’m just scared of it because of the cyber

Might need to save scum through it a bit

[warm nexus]

Honestly doom episode 4 was more enjoyable than like 90% of the levels in doom 2

Suburbs was just terrible

Funny this is I liked the chasm

[azure nimbus]

are you sure it's the fourth map? There is only a cyber in coop

[vale gyro]

I meant the 5th map, sorry

[opal falcon]

I was loving Doom II.

But then the game crashed on me.

I decided to give Doom a break and play classics instead.

[vale gyro]

Ok, I kinda like the high res textures of crispy and woof now…

[azure nimbus]

Doom is a classic? I'm not sure what you mean instead. But anyway, the official steam port is rather unstable. Look into fanmade ports like woof or dsda if you get a chance. They offer both a more classic vanilla experience with more customability in QoL settings and ability to play more custom levels

[opal falcon]

I meant classics from my childhood.

[azure nimbus]

Woof has a blocky spectre option that retains easier to see spectres as though they are low res even when playing on high res

[vale gyro]

Where is it?

Nvm

Found it

But yea

It’s not as bad as texture filtering

I kinda dig it, like it’s just less pixels at a distance

Helps you see things from afar

[dapper flint]

Those options exist in gz also. Personally I like the original spec look

I believe you can set it to fuzz or just set it to software renderer. Very simple

[vale gyro]

I like it too

I just like the clarity when seeing things from further away

No uncapped framerate tho

I like my 35fps

[azure nimbus]

35 Hz makes sense for gameplay since the physics engine only acts 35 times per second. For watching, lots of people like uncapped but it's meh for gameplay for me

[vast reef]

classic

[vast reef]

that's not a problem at all

in my opinion at least

i quite like having too much stuff going on

but it's not sustainable for long periods of play

20 minutes of stuff like that can feel like 2 hours

[sly oasis]

How do you do, fellow kids!

Anyone play the new Voxel Doom mod yet?

[finite crag]

Doom 1 gets so much better.

The earlier episodes are just getting started

Is it possible to survive the onslaught in e1m8 (Phobos anomaly)

[azure nimbus]

kinda. technically, you never die there. you just exit when your health lowers under a certain threshold. I think it's 20.maybe with the rocket launcher from previous levels, you can get some kills at high health but that's it. even if you did kill all the monsters, the floor would damage you down past that threshold

[finite crag]

Interesting

Why does the game seemingly end there then?

Why doesn't it go to e9?

[narrow condor]

E9 is the secret level and E8 is the final level.

[azure nimbus]

e1m9 is accessed through a secret exit in an earlier level. It's just the way doom1 is set up where m9s are the secret maps and m8s are the last map

[zenith berry]

Some good advice: It's okay to save-scum! Whatever suits your gameplay style well.

[azure nimbus]

It's really just a matter of how much time you want to devote into a map for you to feel it sufficiently complete. Maybe that means top of the leaderboard speedrunning, maybe it means a demo uvmax, maybe it's a saveless playthrough hmp, maybe it's using saves on uv continuous. There are thousands of levels to play and sometimes I do think about that -- the fact that I devote to uvmaxing most every level I play does mean that I might not get a chance to play as many levels as someone who uses saves.

[vernal thunder]

I beat the cyberdemon for the first time!

[vital knoll]

Did you shoot him to death?

[limber mirage]

I have

Quite enjoyable. A small and simple change yet adds a nice flavor to the visuals of the game

Especially in regards to the corpses

Overall I think I would have to always use it by default when playing. It’s just such a nice change

[glad jungle]

https://twitter.com/MarkMan23/status/1563514905696747520?s=20&t=F2-iB4nAQLkfYEJPtN2gug

Mark Julio 『マークマン』 (@MarkMan23)

This fan made game is so cool! Castlevania: Simon’s Destiny looks LIT!

Likes

18532

Retweets

3585

▶ Play video

Twitter · Aug 27, 2022, 1:12 PM

[dapper flint]

Unless you're uploading videos or just trying to improve your skill there's nothing wrong with save scumming. If you're trying a 100 percent no saves or just trying to own a map. Usually what I do is a blind run with saves when I feel like it. Another with saves at fights. A third where I save twice. Then no saves. Works every time. Again depends on the map if it's easier for you you can skip to 2 to none pretty easily

[vital knoll]

I don't know. My opinions on savescumming have changed a little bit. At first, it was a no go. But as I explored more wads, I started to give myself 3 per map: one each time I collected a key. But that's wildly inconsistent, and of course not every map has 3 keys. Now I realize there's little shame in doing it a few more times per map.

[dapper flint]

What I listed is just a way to improve as a player from personal experience. There's nothing wrong with saving as much as you want if you want to have fun

Or just practicing a map

[slim willow]

I wonder if we could get an edit to the voxel mod that just makes the items voxels, like the build engine.

[vital knoll]

PB 3.0 has an option for voxel pickups.

[dapper flint]

Hear that Swiss. You're in luck

[vital knoll]

The hell is wrong with you?

[dapper flint]

I'd reply to that but no idea what you're talking about

Here's a gert for your issues

[vital knoll]

You've rebutted everything I've said since "welcome to the FPS genre"

Olive branch slapped away I guess

Wait that was a different asshole

Sorry asshole

[dapper flint]

👶

[ornate vortex]

was?

[sour otter]

https://twitter.com/ancient_james/status/1561676955829010433 classic doom

James Brown (@ancient_james)

How’s this one?

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Twitter · Aug 22, 2022, 11:29 AM

[modern shoal]

[finite crag]

So is doom supposed to be played on ultra violence

[narrow condor]

Not really but that's become the norm over time.

Regular players got proficient enough to consider it the main difficulty, with HMP and HNTR considered as 'easy mode' — to the point that many mapmakers will only implement UV and ignore the other two.

Some mapmakers like Ribbiks go out of their way to make UV exceptionally difficult in order to make HMP the main difficulty in their wads.

(Doesn't stop people from playing only UV still.)

[halcyon willow]

doom is supposed to be played on the difficulty you find most enjoyable c:

[narrow condor]

Yes!

[vale gyro]

Reasons why I don’t like UV:

1. I suck

[slim willow]

[limber mirage]

The one thing I hate about classic doom that was usually a staple of older games is lower difficulties cut enemies out or change enemy types

Sometimes I just want the Sheer number of enemies of x difficulty but doing less damage

[azure nimbus]

what would you have preferred as an alternative? imo that's better than eternal changing behavior

[slim willow]

seems like you need to learn dehacked, bob

[limber mirage]

Not anymore. I play on Uv now

I just meant gaming in general im not a fan of when they make enemies behave easier, but also cut out half of them

[slim willow]

i like enemy changing. it makes hard modes spicier

[limber mirage]

For instance if “hard” difficulty had 10 enemies, and they were all smart

Then “medium” difficulty reduced that to 7 enemies and they are dumber, that’s actually a pretty large jump difficulty wise changed

[slim willow]

true

[dapper flint]

Maybe a difficulty slider. I don't know. But yeah a relaxed playthrough for me these days is a one where I just save often. Kinds eliminates any stress right there

[slim willow]

I still have to 100% UV but yeah saving before and after fights is something I do to stay sane.

I feel zero remorse whatsoever.

[finite crag]

I didn't realize difficulties cut the enemy count in half

I started on hurt me plenty. No wonder I found episode 1 boring as fuck.

[hexed escarp]

the only think that difficulties do is change the enemy placement

except too young to die and nightmare

those two are different

too young to die uses the same placement as not too rough but you take half damage and ammo pickups are doubled

and nightmare is the same placement as ultra violence, but with fast monsters, respawning monsters, and double ammo pickups just to balance it out

[azure nimbus]

and a default 0 reaction time

[narrow condor]

Cyberdemons become stationary rocket turrets. :-P

[dapper flint]

Fast monster infighting machines

[narrow condor]

Great for archviles because they don't roam around much and you can just run up to them, terrible for pain elementals.

[regal pike]

https://tenor.com/view/businessmen-handshake-handshake-businessmen-business-gif-23760387

you and i both

[finite crag]

HOLY. SHIT. THIS GAME IS SO FUN KN UV.

I'M SO SORRY DOOM FOR SLANDERING YOU BEFORE.

E1M3 INTRO ROOM DAMN

[finite crag]

It took me thirty minutes to get through E3 because I had no shotgun at level start

https://tenor.com/view/wow-simon-cowell-britains-got-talent-this-is-amazing-this-is-impressive-gif-26152364

This is so killer. All thriller.

I'm amazed at the design juxtaposition. The gameplay is so frenetic and fast yet you have to be as patient as a boy scout to survive. It's so strategic in its combat and use of cover wow.

[vale gyro]

Wow

Only 30 minutes?!

It took me 1 hour per episode

If not more

[finite crag]

Er

M3

[vale gyro]

Oh

E3M3?

[finite crag]

E1M3

The intro part is hard

If you don't have shotgun

You just have a pistol with all these demons and dudes shooting at you

[vale gyro]

Never found it hard

Well, I do play on HMP

[finite crag]

Do it on uv

[vale gyro]

I can barely get past E1M1 on UV

[finite crag]

I'm talking specifically uv

[vale gyro]

Then yea…

You’ll get fucked up

But yea

The most health I’ve ever had after E1M1 on UV was like 40% after doing a 12 second speed run on it

[grave flower]

I return, with SCIENCE!

So I tested two scenarios we talked about - rev blobs in open areas, and rev blobs stuck in hallways

To simulate this, I dropped 432 revenants in a room, gave doomguy 500 rockets, and circlestrafed the horde until it died to see the average rocket use over that time

Very consistently, I was killing the whole horde around the 325 to 350 rocket mark, giving rockets a value of 1.28 to 1.33 revenants per rocket

[dapper flint]

Mathematics

[grave flower]

Or an approximate average rocket damage of 370 to 396, which corresponds to approximately 3.5 full blast damages' worth of damage from each rocket

[azure nimbus]

that 3/4 ratio was p close.

[grave flower]

yup

here's the interesting thing, though - the hallway simulation was totally, radically different

Like, different enough that we could force players to have to hallway kill in order to preserve ammo-level different

[azure nimbus]

oh yeah they clump

[grave flower]

Yeah, big time

This is a pretty wide hallway entrance, 440 units, but the effect was still staggering

the brownian motion they do in the open drastically reduces splash

[gentle compass]

One thing I like to do if UV is a bit too hard in some user-created content is play Hurt Me Plenty but turn fast monsters on, sometimes it creates a different dynamic. A lot of source ports offer some gameplay tweaking options that can be wacky and fun (sometimes)

[grave flower]

Yeah, in even a very wide hallway simulation where I do the worst possible shooting pattern (that is, not trying to drill through a dead rev before it's replaced to hit a rocket in the middle of the pack and hit 7-8 revs at a time), it's consistently between 225 and 250 rockets

Which raises your effective rocket damage to an average of like 550 to almost 600 damage per rocket

[dapper flint]

I'd love to have solo net monsters on hurt me something like what Bob mentioned

[grave flower]

Or 1.92 revs a rocket

[azure nimbus]

I do think that NM monsters with lower difficulty placement would be cool. That is kinda what NERF is. Easy monster placement to fascilitate NM

[grave flower]

Oh my god, that's such a good way to alleviate infighting delay RNG too

Enemies are less random on NM

[gentle compass]

If you use GZDoom or derivative ZDoom port I'm pretty sure you can do this with "map <map id> coop" in the console

[azure nimbus]

lots of ports have that type of thing. Usually with a -solo-net or -coop_spawns param

[gentle compass]

Should enable coop things

[dapper flint]

Ohhhhh interesting. I'll try it with sunlust. I believe it has a decent solo net

[gentle compass]

Yea you can also do -host in a command line IIRC, might have the command wrong

[grave flower]

Don't play map01 in HNTR/ITYTD coop, it spawns a cyberdemon at the start for no adequately explained reason

HMP should be fine

[gentle compass]

I'll be interested to know if that still works!

[dapper flint]

I've done a few wads solo net. That's usually the answer for how do I make the map harder without trying

[grave flower]

Yea makes sense, but for Sunlust specifically, they have a cybie flagged as only on easy and co-op settings

Very trollish lol

on medium he bails

[dapper flint]

Try plutonia map 22 if you wanna see cyber trolling;)

[grave flower]

Before I start creating stats like average TTKs/TTK-per-luck-roll charts, I wanna see if my base assumptions so far have been correct

Oh, I can't link anything here

bleh

[dapper flint]

I'll let you know bro

[grave flower]

Oh man, at that kind of rev density, an inventory of rockets actually out-damages an inventory of BFG ammo

BFG still kills faster, since it burns ammo so fast, but rockets are incredibly ammo efficient at that rate

[azure nimbus]

imagine a mapper placing 200 revs on a single square, all stuck together. Rockets kill all of them in 3 hits.

[grave flower]

That'd be such a great fakeout

I might fuck with players and make all of my maps have exactly enough hidden secret enemies that every single map says 10,000 monsters

so it hides the level length

[azure nimbus]

consider not breaking computers

[grave flower]

Would 10k in a stack somewhere lag people out even if un-rednered?

un-rendered and asleep, that is?

[royal heron]

if you think it's hard, you haven't tried it on Nightmare! yet

[grave flower]

Ah yeah, testing it out it's obvious it doesn't work, the moment the revs wake up they crash the game lol

Is ACS still the way to bust open full creative mode on gzdoom?

Oh, I can just offscreen teleporter a voodoo doll into the 10k rev stack and laglessly kill it

(also I just had to learn how teleporters, voodoo dolls, conveyers, linedef actions, tagging and stacking monsters works lol)

I'm assuming ACS is the only way to add multiple actions to a single sector or linedef

[tired dawn]

guys, what content mods do you recommends for doom classics?

[azure nimbus]

scythe 2 is a good place to start. good levels, fair challenge for someone entering the custom scene

[dapper flint]

If you're starting out in the re release I'd start with the add ons. No rest for the living, btsx episode 1 ect

If you mean mods and not wads then whatever your looking for in particular

[vital knoll]

BTSX Ep 1 is absolute fire

[dapper flint]

Honestly yeah. And waiting is still one of my favorite midis to this day

[vital knoll]

I've started Ep. 2. They throw a lot more at you right off the jump.

[tired dawn]

guys what is a good website to download doom mod?

[azure nimbus]

doomworld is where people post stuff. When it's the final version, it'll be on idgamesarchive. Ribbiks has stuff on his own website though. zdoom has its own site too for some stuff

[narrow condor]

I'm continuing my interwoven playthrough of the Community Chests and I just want to say their MAP31s are amazing.

Each one is really fun for totally different reasons.

CC3 gives you 30 minutes to finish the level before the bomb explodes. You can opt to bail out to M16 through the regular exit in 5-10 minutes or play through the rest of the level to exit to M32 in 15-20 minutes.

And it's not stressful at all because it's a very 'rushable' level. A breeze on UV if you're cautious about hitscanners.

CC2's M31 is a lot like Chord in that it's made up of independent, tight clutch fights compartmentalised with predictable traps and optional loot. The secret exit is very easy to find and you can use it to skip the boss fight.

CC1's M31 is... a bit weird and dated but still chaotic enough to keep you entertained.

Haven't played CC4's yet.

[hexed escarp]

in ultimate doom builder, is it possible to make it so that in 2d mode you can pan around using the mouse?

like holding middle click and moving the mouse around?

its really annoying to have to use the arrow keys

[ocean rampart]

Does Doom 4 Vanilla run on the Enhanced versions of Doom and Doom 2?

(I mean, it has a DeHacked version of the mod so it might work)

[azure nimbus]

it will run on doom2. cl2. it seems to not need improved limits

[atomic dust]

Thy Flesh Consumed's first 2 levels have Plutonia levels of difficulty

especially the first level. it has only 9 health bonuses and no any armor pickups, it's full of Shotgun Guys appearing from around every corner, and there's some Barons that you have to kill with the shotgun

[azure nimbus]

e4m1 has a green armor

[atomic dust]

really? I don't remember that

is it a secret

[azure nimbus]

it's accessible after the first switch. it'll on your right after spectres

not a secret

[atomic dust]

many parts of Plutonia literally made me rage

especially the end of Abattoir with those Chaingunners, Revenants and Mancubus

[regal pike]

ok so i’m not just bad—episode 4 is hard? cause e4m1 is kicking my ass

[regal pike]

is there no map in ep 4

[slim willow]

yeah. episode 4 is the hardest in the game

[azure nimbus]

right. Would be cool to have a fanmade episode map though

[vernal thunder]

E4m1 UV is a joke right... Do people actually play that level. Is it ment to be fun?

My ultra violence run of doom 1 has come to an end everyone! I Relieved officially state that I here by chicken out

I'm doing it on hurt me plenty now

F**k e4m1

F**k e4.

E4m1 more like no

I dislike that level strongly

Does episode 4 get good at all or should I spare myself the hell of ultra violence

[pliant briar]

first 2 missions are pretty insane but then it gets pretty easy

[halcyon willow]

Funnily enough the first 2 maps of episode 4 are my favourite in all of doom 1

[dapper flint]

Yeah but I always remember being a kid and hating it because I was trash

[narrow condor]

CC4's M31 features an amazing idea: Each secret switch you need to press in order to unblock the path to the secret exit contains an archvile, so its idle noise helps you find the secret.

[slim willow]

E4M4 needs a buff

[pliant briar]

anyone play wolfenstein 3d tc with gzdoom before? trying to figure out how to stretch the screen but keep the original hud too
both use gzdoom and i can get it working with doom wads but not wolf3d tc
here are some screenshots to better explain: https://i.imgur.com/WeeC0Ex.png vs https://i.imgur.com/K9DQQYY.png

[quartz urchin]

https://tenor.com/view/doomguy-doom-e1m1-cacodemon-gif-19329571

[vernal thunder]

Doom

[sly oasis]

Yeah, it's really sweet! I'm using it playing Plutonia right now and it's amazing what a difference it makes, especially when you see old sprites from Doom II vs new ones from the mod. Hard to play it any other way after this, IMO. Wish I could make it work on prboomplus with the RTX mod.

[sturdy laurel]

Since Voxel Doom uses ZScript, it won't really work on anything other than the latest GZDoom.

[sly oasis]

Yeah, I figured.

[zenith berry]

I don't understand why a comment simply saying "cheese" gets downvoted to oblivion in the download page of Voxel Doom...

It doesn't even criticise or anything.

[vast reef]

level mods: doomworld.com
zdoom mods: forum.zdoom.org
banned from zdoom or super-obscure stuff: moddb

[azure nimbus]

a lot of times, doomwiki will link to the download page

[quiet fjord]

Cheese

[frosty pollen]

just showing our loving, wholesome and friendly community

[vast reef]

doesn't really give feedback or adds to a discussion

but i don't think they deserved to get downvoted to cocytus

[finite crag]

what's a good set of mods to use when playing doom with a new player?

[regal pike]

haha…e4m2

[finite crag]

e4m6 is prob the hardest one beside e4m1-e4m2

some say it's the hardest of the episode others think the former are more difficult

[vast reef]

gameplay mods or mapsets?

[azure nimbus]

e4m2 is hard because of platforming (least by vanilla standards) and infinite height issues near the chainsaw.
e4m1 is hard cuz it's just hard. The execution demanded and luck required is pretty high for an iwad. Not to mention the bs fake wall near the chaingun and red key that house invis shotgunners. Then e4m6 has ZERO armor and platforming and damaging floor and limited radsuits. you need to know the map

[vast reef]

when i first tried doom and beat e1 and e2 i wanted to try and see what e4 was like

e4m1 made me decide to beat e3 first

[scenic shard]

how do I get 60 fps on doom 2

I'm using GZdoom source port

[pearl osprey]

Step 1: don't use GZDoom

If you want high framerates make sure you have Vsync disabled, and uncapper framerate enabled

If you are still not hitting 60fps try another source port

[molten iron]

Try dsda-doom / prboom+ on GL mode and get 2000 fps

[pearl osprey]

Or try the new GZDoom renderer

GLES

[scenic shard]

ok thanks

[dapper flint]

Funny enough since I got my pc only vulkan works well

[finite crag]

gameplay mods mostly but both are good

[finite crag]

does that give better fps?

[pearl osprey]

Yes a lot more

From my experience it can double the fps or triple it

[dapper flint]

Worked very well for my potato top back in the day

[vast reef]

yes, but i will add that vulkan has near-same performance for me but much better looking graphics

[dapper flint]

Depends on the card.

[finite crag]

I've been playing a bit of project brutality and ngl it's been tanking my fps

[vast reef]

i was playing ultra-crispy earlier today in the car, quite a fun mod
it recreates blood's guns in doom, and its movement too if i'm correct

[finite crag]

pretty sure most high monster encounters drop to like 20 fps

[vast reef]

as usual, i'll recommend monster randomizers

i love project malice and cyb's monster randomizer

champions too

[vast reef]

i remember getting 7 fps with PB the first time i played, even while just moving and not doing anything

[finite crag]

alright so doing very quick testing

ogl es gave me about a 10 fps increase and vulkan gave me about 30 fps increase

so for just fps vulkan seems to be doing better

I'm definitely not knowledgeable on which of the two looks better, I always just played regular ogl

[finite crag]

I guess the issue is that my friends don't really like the vanilla doom gameplay

but seeing how doom has so many mods I thought I could maybe find smth that they'd like

[vast reef]

DRLA?

maybe death and decay

[finite crag]

that's just single player tho?

[vast reef]

oh

i hadn't tried it with MP, sorry

[finite crag]

it's okay haha I never specified I wanted MP so

[halcyon willow]

That's a problem with mod

[finite crag]

where brutal doom channel

bro am i dumb or literally im losing all the weapons i grab (brutal doom)

like i grab the rocket launcher, the shotgun but and even a chainsaw but the moment i switch to the pistol or punchs i lose it

like i can't change to those weapons again

help

[dapper flint]

There's actually a brutal doom discord server and a gz server. People there can probably help

[finite crag]

really? didn't know lol

thx

[dapper flint]

No worries!

[vernal thunder]

Oh my god I did it

Thy flesh consumed UV is done