doom-eternal

[wide crest]

Fr. Getting a good line up of experienced players is pretty rare

[burnt moss]

Even imps fall back under cover to take a better position. It’s smarter than I’d expect a computer to be.

[static trout]

here’s an essay incoming

[patent stream]

….. I don’t wanna sound mean but you should play more games

[wispy garden]

The ambush of revenants into 2 tyrants and 2 hell knights and 2 barons with carcass support and gargoyle imps and shield soldiers for fodder, then a possessed shows up and smokes me, i killed it on my 3rd try but i didnt get a chance to pop it with my microwave becsuse its not easy

[static trout]

It’s not supposed to be easy

[burnt moss]

Then more games should have a soundtrack so high-quality it penetrates my little N64 reality like Doom did.

[static trout]

Blood swamps is a shock level made to kick your ass

[flint flame]

My brother in Christ, use a ice bomb when microwaving a spirit

[patent stream]

Eh eternals soundtrack is pretty meh

[wide crest]

Well that's how the devs designed the encounter

[wispy garden]

Cant Cc possessed

[sacred dirge]

The Ai is pretty great. I've seen some games with crazy smart Ai though. FEAR. A really old game is still on my top list

[static trout]

or let it posess something else, y’know, for fun

[flint flame]

Boi I meant the demons surrounding the spirit

[sacred dirge]

Stfu bib

🔥

[wide crest]

Microwave beam stuns them. Otherwise just keep moving

[patent stream]

The “ flanking” that some fodder do is not a decision based on like a dynamic active role. They don’t “learn” when to do a special move.

They just see if they are close or Far away, if far away they circle, if close they rush up. You can see them perform pretty basic actions ,

[burnt moss]

TBF it was BFG Division that brought me in. But esp the boss music holds up to an extent in Eternal

[static trout]

just use the

[sacred dirge]

Harbinger is definitely better than bfg though

[patent stream]

Bfg division is the only song I cannot stand

Also meathook

Harbinger slaps

[static trout]

Pb rocket until they die

easy mode

[strange gale]

...because the ai is programmed to adopt a combat role depending on what enemies currently exist and where the player is. sometimes encounter designers force a specific enemy to take on a specific role. the intelligence is very much artificial.

[wispy garden]

Nothing like a carcass shield blocking every BFG

[static trout]

Why are you using bfg on a carcass

i think that’s your problem my friend

[wide crest]

Yup carcass is literally designed to screw you over. I love them lol

[strange gale]

♻️ year 1

[wispy garden]

No lol, im not using Bfg ON the carcass, i fire it at the 2 tyrants and the carcass blocks it

[flint flame]

My brother, you are forgetting the overplayed TOTTFIY

[static trout]

why are you using bfg on tyrants

[flint flame]

[static trout]

Just run away or kill them

You don’t got time to bfg them

[sacred dirge]

I love that lol

[wispy garden]

Because theres 2 and they bring them both down to like 10% health

[static trout]

Isolate them

[patent stream]

I was trying to forget that one ;-;

[wispy garden]

Imdont know if you noticed but tyrants have alot of health and chipping away at them takes a while when theyre in big groups

[static trout]

Then kick ass with chain shield and pb rocket or something

[strange gale]

so what you're saying is to never bfg because taking even 1 point of damage during the recovery animation is enough to offset the risk-reward balance. right.

[static trout]

You can splash damage

[static trout]

yeah I am?

Zero damage allowed my friend

[strange gale]

what fucking situation would have to be in for a carcass and two tyrants to seriously threaten you while you're lining up for a bfg? this is so dumb

[static trout]

?

Alright calm down sir

[strange gale]

ah, you're a shield user. that explains it

[static trout]

my dude calm down

[patent stream]

Personally not a fan of momentary invincibility

[static trout]

What’s wrong w shield

[patent stream]

The momentary invincibility

[static trout]

V balanced, immunity to everything

[strange gale]

it's lame. i could write an essay on why, not gonna.

[static trout]

write one, i’ll wait

[strange gale]

but i will say that you can kill a possessed tyrant in less than a second with nothing but the shield and a single dash.

[sacred dirge]

Use whatever you enjoy. I wouldn't care to much what others like to use or not

[wide crest]

It's great. A bit to great. It's kinda dumb how the dps is higher than mobile turret imo

[static trout]

well that’s false-

[wide crest]

I try not to use it too much so it doesn't become a crutch

[static trout]

Mr chad pfp i think that’s a bit of an exaggeration on the shield

[strange gale]

oh you think i'm lying? https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/929873339583971399/949673300907425822/jesust3.mp4

[sacred dirge]

Hahahahah nice

[static trout]

exploits nice

[wispy garden]

Wtf was that?

[static trout]

because i totally said the word exploit

[strange gale]

cope

[patent stream]

The shield itself is an exploit

[static trout]

😔

[wide crest]

I don't remember how but you could increase shield dash damage by switching or something

[static trout]

I’ll cope because you got mad then sent something irrelevant

[patent stream]

How is it irrelevant, he said he could kill possessed tyrant with shield u said false. He proved you wrong.

[strange gale]

if you actually think the shield is balanced and then go "oh but this exploit doesn't contribute to its balance" when i post a piece of evidence that supports the opposite, then you cannot be taken seriously

[static trout]

it’s an in game mechanic

[sacred dirge]

It's not

[patent stream]

I mean that doesn’t mean it’s balanced

[static trout]

i was being sarcastic when I said it was balanced

[patent stream]

Fallout has a gun that launches a mini nuke. It’s part of the game but it’s not balanced

[sacred dirge]

There's a difference between exploit and mechanic

[wispy garden]

It doesnt look like something the devs intended

[static trout]

And when talking about the shield, I never said anything about an exploit

[patent stream]

And lucitik never said he was responding to an exploit or not. They simply said. It’s possible to kill a possessed tyrant with a shield in under a second

[static trout]

Which is safe to assume, when talking about the base weapon, how it performs in game as an intentional feature

[wispy garden]

Lucitik is pissed off because i wasted a Bfg because i didnt realize the carcass was hiding behind a wall

[strange gale]

the shield might just be the greatest contributor to why so much of the "high level" deternal gameplay on youtube is so lame

1. go in with no plan and an irresponsible amount of confidence
2. inevitably fuck up horribly
3. still live because you have 34589340895384 lifelines to deploy at a moment's notice

[patent stream]

It’s never safe to assume.

[patent stream]

For any carcasses i would recommend destroyer blade

[static trout]

fr ur so mad writing essays over discord

again calm down sir

[patent stream]

You can’t bait a response then when they respond reply with they are angry btw

[static trout]

I’m not attacking you at all

[wispy garden]

Thats not what happened

[static trout]

I simply said something about the bfg and how you don’t need it against tyrants

[static trout]

lol not even baiting

[strange gale]

trolling guide:

1. make an uninformed but confident claim
2. "lol why so pressed" when confronted about said lack of information

it happens every time.

[patent stream]

You made 2 remarks. They responded to those remarks. You reply with lol you mad.

That’s bait no matter how you dice it.

[static trout]

? how am I trolling at all

I made my actual take on the bfg tyrant, and you decided to get mad

[patent stream]

And there you go saying he’s mad again

[static trout]

well he was

[sacred dirge]

I don't think anyone is mad here

[patent stream]

And you say you were not baiting?

[static trout]

Guys getting mad bcs i said don’t need bfg

[wide crest]

Bruh moment

[static trout]

.

[patent stream]

You don’t need the bfg it’s a pretty shitty weapon

[strange gale]

no, what you said is this

[static trout]

yh you don’t need it

[strange gale]

that's like the number 1 thing to use bfg on, if you're gonna use it

[patent stream]

2016 and eternal version of the bfg is in my honest opinion the worst iterations of the weapon

[static trout]

I’ll use it if there’s one in the room or if the room’s big enemy count

[sacred dirge]

Absolutely. Even in 2016 its only ever used as a I fucked up un fuck up button

[wide crest]

Where is the love for unmaykr guys

[patent stream]

In classic doom you had to actually aim the bfg. And proper use and aim rewarded you. And yet you still had 40 more arenas to go.

In modern doom it clears maybe 1/4th of a level for you

[static trout]

Or on the archvile in tag 1 blood swamps room with the doom hunter in order to knockout multiple big enemies

[patent stream]

I prefer Unmaykr because it’s not overpowered

Also cuz it looks cool

[static trout]

Unmaykr is good yeah

[wispy garden]

Oh, my bad. I thought you were pissed at me for wasting the BFG on tyrants. Youre trolling revenge for telling me to use the chaingun . Yeah thats not really the first weapon i think of when theres tyrants unless i need to block an attack and dash away

[undone dagger]

@patent stream Was wondering if you guys do partnerships/advertising for smaller servers?

[static trout]

Used double bfg on un tag1 posessed pain elemental

[strange gale]

it's impossible to have a conversation about anything in the game, regardless of skill level, without some guy going "durrr why bfg skill issue haha pb rocket spam every year 1 technique shield raze bfg double tap dksms holoswap in .00675 second"

no nuance allowed. do NOT talk about anything that isn't optimized to TAS levels.

[patent stream]

Not that I’m aware of, since it’s the official discord anything official like that goes through Bethesda. The closest to any advertising usually is long fundraiser streaming events or such that are doom related

[flint flame]

Again, partner up with RAID SHADOW LEGENDS

[static trout]

never said skill issue

[sacred dirge]

I think it's okay using the weapons you like but I think it's necessary you know the faults of it also

[static trout]

thought moved on from this my dude

[strange gale]

now i'm just venting general frustration with the server

[static trout]

Alright

[undone dagger]

Ok Ty

[flint flame]

Venting?

[wide crest]

Sus

[strange gale]

[flint flame]

[wide crest]

When you realise the father's betrayal is an amogus reference

[sacred dirge]

[opal galleon]

[static trout]

tbh bfg isn’t a skill issue idk why ppl say it is

[patent stream]

Eh more like a skilless issue

Since it’s just point and click

[flint flame]

The only thing they fear is

[static trout]

It’s pretty crucial against that posessed pain elemental

[wide crest]

1 button press go boom

[flint flame]

Slob on em

[sacred dirge]

It gets hate because it's seen as a delete issue with no skill button

[wide crest]

Average bfg fan vs average unmaykr enjoyer

[sacred dirge]

But like I mentioned. Use what you enjoy. I wouldn't give 2 shits if I were you

[static trout]

when it comes to it, i never use unmaykr

Bfg is too much of a kill button

[flint flame]

Average bfg fan vs average sleep enjoyer *

[patent stream]

I prefer Unmaykr due to its more controlled use

[crystal lark]

hello

[wide crest]

Also i think it's more fun cause you can use it in the already established combat loop

[sacred dirge]

Yup! It feels better in general

[wispy garden]

Hmm, thats a pretty good idea, i might try the unmakyr on that possessed

[wide crest]

Plus it also has a cool interaction with providing more armour

[static trout]

Boutta make ppl mad but crucible > unmaykr

[sacred dirge]

[patent stream]

I wish crucible wasn’t so………bad

U can kill 3 demons

And then maybe 2 more? Assuming there are drops in that level

And assuming fodder didn’t jump in front

It’s just a basic quick slash and done

[valid wren]

I mean its quite good for the icon of sin

[sacred dirge]

Some quick time would be nice / cancel

[valid wren]

Seems like the crucible was made just for the final level

[patent stream]

Using it as an actual melee weapon woulda been neat

[static trout]

Crucible good at un archvile

Unmaykr good at…

[valid wren]

Nope you can kill it easily

[crystal lark]

Hey, if I have The Acient Gods 2 DLC, does it give you the barbarian skin?

[static trout]

yeah, with a crucible

[valid wren]

Freeze and two grandees

[static trout]

you can save your nades

[valid wren]

for what?

[azure oriole]

Yes

[static trout]

Plus, what else are you using the crucible on

[crystal lark]

Because I do not have it

[static trout]

Might as well use it on one of the strongest enemies in game

[azure oriole]

Try reconcile entitlements in the settings

[valid wren]

Strongest enemies? theyre a joke lmao

It has never been a problem to kill them, as i said freeze, two grandees and some combos and theyre done

[static trout]

what’s stronger than an arch?

Besides bosses

[valid wren]

tyrant

[static trout]

💀

[valid wren]

they have a lot of hp, can be annoying

[static trout]

Nowhere near as threatening

[valid wren]

Thats because you dont know how to manage arches

[static trout]

archs teleport, deal crazy damage, summon demons, buff them

[static trout]

yeah i do, it’s called a crucible

You can freeze bomb them, but that’s only really necessary in tag1/2 and taras nabad

[valid wren]

they cannot teleport if you freeze them and the summon demons things is a punishment

if you know how to play the game, they will never summon demons

[static trout]

In my un runs, they’ve never summoned

[valid wren]

also if you havent played ultra nightmare yet the freeze bomb its quite useful

[static trout]

But, it’s still easier to crucible them

[valid wren]

I just want to bully them

[sacred dirge]

Should have just get their ability to res

[static trout]

I’ve beat it, including tag1

And it’s much easier to use a crucible against an archvile

[valid wren]

I just like bullying them, thats my thing

[static trout]

?

[midnight sparrow]

It’s more fun to combo them to death imo then Crucible

[valid wren]

ah my mistake sorry its pretty late and im doing a few stuff at the same time

[static trout]

I agree, but in un i’m playing for keeps

[valid wren]

In other words my brain is slowly getting an error

[midnight sparrow]

Ah if it’s UN then yeah I agree

[static trout]

in nightmare tho

I’ll sometimes just never fry the spirit, to spice things up

[midnight sparrow]

Possessed Pain Elementals are the absolute worst. I will always fry the Spirit if a regular Pain Elemental is in the arena

[valid wren]

Pain elementals are always a pain

[static trout]

oh no

double bfg on samur for 1 thing and 1 thing only

[midnight sparrow]

Samurs last phase in the Holt always gets me

[mystic vault]

doom eternal?

[wide crest]

Gaming?

[mystic vault]

@ember void not gonna say hi to me???

[opal galleon]

I will.

[mystic vault]

numtlik!!!!

[opal galleon]

Hi!!

[mystic vault]

i have some very unfortunate news for you.

[opal galleon]

[mystic vault]

i have acquired lady friend. no more gay jokes.

[opal galleon]

If you say so

[wide crest]

W

[mystic vault]

im sorry my love 🥺 💔

on other accounts, doomy turtle.

[opal galleon]

The demons.

[ember void]

hi dead key!!!

edong is a homo.

@azure oriole am I right?

[azure oriole]

That’s not dead key

That’s dead

[azure oriole]

@azure oriole may I ask what is with your about me do you want to talk about it?

[ember void]

[azure oriole]

look up launch options for xbox game pass, and +com_skipIntroVideo 1

[azure oriole]

It is a reference to a legend

The legend made me the detective

[wary kiln]

I got the unmaykr

It’s poopoo

[azure oriole]

Ok then

[rich bloom]

How do yall feel about horde mode

[ruby umbra]

eh

[flint flame]

gaming

[ember void]

[azure oriole]

Major disappointment

[sacred dirge]

Yes

[rich bloom]

Same

[sacred dirge]

Horde mode is a pretty easy thing to implement well. One have a scoreboard similar to arcade mode. Second random spawns and third rounds that keep going with harder and harder encounters. Only purpose being a high score with no end to waves

[burnt moss]

You mean if you route/ find them quick enough?

[gray rivet]

Lol it seems that way, but can potentially do more damage than the bfg across its ammo pool. Try combo-ing with other weps. It's fun!

[burnt moss]

Donkey Kong Country

[opal galleon]

Better game

[burnt moss]

Of doom!

[wary kiln]

I will give it a shot thanks 🙏

[burnt moss]

It can be somewhat useful, but nobody here will admit that, because it’s just about math/ “skill issue” here.

[opal galleon]

So true

[wary kiln]

I have big skill issue

[burnt moss]

That’s ok. I don’t think your skills and abilities have to be evaluated in the absence of OP game mechanics like the BFG

[wary kiln]

True the BFG is that “oh shit” weapon that takes zero skill to use though it’s useful it’s very easy for any player to use

[burnt moss]

But there is a small amount of skill required in the strategic planning required for the BFG

[opal galleon]

aim upward and shoot towards the enemies but not directly at them

[wary kiln]

Agreed like where you have to shoot and not hit a WALL

[wary kiln]

Yes agreed

@burnt moss typing a whole paragraph lol

Whole college essay

[burnt moss]

Not what I meant actually. Planning the moment of use within the whole game is a higher level of planning.

[burnt moss]

Had to go tuck a kid in mid-paragraph haha

[wary kiln]

Lol couldn’t be me

[burnt moss]

You in here?

[wary kiln]

?

[burnt moss]

You implied I tucked you in?

[wary kiln]

No I meant I don’t have a kid

[burnt moss]

Oh haha

[wary kiln]

[velvet crown]

fr?

i thought it was good lol

[mossy nova]

the rest was worth it

im not trash anymore thanks to the rest that i did

[patent pond]

Is there a way to still unlock the doom64 outfit in Doom Eternal?

[ember void]

no.

[lapis saddle]

I expect it will probably rotate in again at some point

[ember void]

every event probably will.

[patent pond]

Ok, but not at this point

[lapis saddle]

Right

[patent pond]

Thanks for the replies. I took a break from this game for a while during the initial event…

[mossy nova]

is UAC better the demon ui color

[sacred dirge]

No

[mossy nova]

okay

[ember void]

uac honestly. I dont play anymore but in all my years (2 I think) of doomy ternaling, that's the color I've used.

[mossy nova]

okay

i used to have toy cars from a gas station called "petron" the cars were lambos and other cool cars for only 10 dollars

[sacred dirge]

Personally I use sent or exterminator

[mossy nova]

and the lambo car toys can start by using a included key gas pump chain idk

[mossy nova]

i dont use them they aint colorful

[sacred dirge]

I like my Ui in doom being crisp. Colorful doesn't matter much to me

[mossy nova]

okay

[kind inlet]

hello

[azure oriole]

hello.

[mossy nova]

hello

[kind inlet]

i'm new so pls help me if i need

[flint flame]

I’ll try to?

[kind inlet]

ok thanks

[burnt moss]

Taking on the Gladiator in a minute. I’m scared

[silver briar]

[silver briar]

Stay focused for his attacks and then it's gonna be very easy

[burnt moss]

Only phase 1 has attack windows right?

[silver briar]

No phase 2 also has attack windows

[burnt moss]

But I don’t have to wait for the green flash there right?

[silver briar]

You kinda have an option either to Dodge the attack or falter him

[burnt moss]

Ok two extra lives later I’m on phase 2

Ok 4 more extra lives and I’ve beat him haha

[flint flame]

For phase 2 gladiator, as long as he doesn’t have his yellow shield up, you can just keep wailing on him

[flint flame]

I was too late

[burnt moss]

Yup. But it’s not your fault. I used Chaingun during jumprope but I didn’t jump haha.

I don’t know if UN is gonna be for me at any point. I’m too ok with dying.

[fallen wigeon]

hello doom eternal people

i don't play doom eternal but i would like to ask if the game has a level or set of levels equivalent to something like sunlust or italo-doom (or even okuplok)

not in terms of monster count but in terms of notoriously difficult

[lapis saddle]

There’s the Kaiser campaign if you count mods. If you specifically mean official content then the Master levels are probably the closest thing

[fallen wigeon]

i see

thank you

[burnt moss]

Fairly. 13 levels that can take a couple hours each on first run through.

[azure oriole]

My first run was like 15 hours

[flint flame]

Some Storyline:
Puzzles: ❔❔❔

[burnt moss]

Small locked-room puzzles like “how tf do I get up there”

[flint flame]

Might be a bit of a headache trying to piece together the lore but it exists

[flint flame]

Oh wait I’m dumb, there are puzzles

[burnt moss]

If you want lore, read a book. There’s one pinned here, actually. But if you want fast-paced ripping and tearing, play the game.

[azure oriole]

I didn’t even bother 💀 Each codex is like a full page

I’m trying to game, you know?

[flint flame]

Good

[burnt moss]

What?

[burnt moss]

I have redeemed myself! I went back in with 2 extra lives, beat phase 1, then lost both extra lives and died on phase 2. Then I beat phase 2.

Note: my Gladiator replay only gave me 5k xp. They seriously don’t want us to farm!

[warped sage]

He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named.

[burnt moss]

Anyone seen a nose? Can’t find mine

[flint flame]

Eh hehe

[azure oriole]

ok

[burnt moss]

Alright

[mossy nova]

what are your background setup in doom eternal

[ember void]

the one where its pitch black

and there is nothing, absolutely nothing

[mossy nova]

like the podium and background thats what i meant

[burnt moss]

Fuck meathook

And also spontaneous hovering that removes your second jump

[shy rain]

Meathook is awesomeeeee

[burnt moss]

It’s unreliable

[shy rain]

If you're bad with it maybe

I manage just fine, awesome movement option

Pretty hard to get hit when you're flanking with the hook

[bold eagle]

tbh its great to use to close in on enemies when theres a lot of them when your focusing on one

[shy rain]

I use it primarily to quickly get around enemies faster than my movement will let me

[burnt moss]

Except half the time it goes “sorry, what demon? There’s nothing to hook onto here.”

[shy rain]

.. what? Never had that happen to me

[bold eagle]

thats true as well tbh

[shy rain]

Might be a you thing

[bold eagle]

i mostly use it for some extra armor to get around close in on enemies and etc

[burnt moss]

It’s a known issue acknowledged by everyone. Meathook, gk, and chainsaw are all flawed when it comes to targeting.

[shy rain]

But I've never had a targeting problem with it

[bold eagle]

okay the chainsaw can sometimes be

[shy rain]

Chainsaw maybe but not meathook

[bold eagle]

problematic

i still cant tell if i liked 2016's final upgrade for the super shotgun, or the meathook from eternal

[slow sigil]

there's a lot less issues with targeting now then quite some time ago

[bold eagle]

better i mean

[shy rain]

Am I just lucky?

[bold eagle]

maybe maybe not

[burnt moss]

I don’t have the latest update yet which may have helped it a bit

[slow sigil]

nah it was like back in 4.0 or something

chainsaw downright didnt work 50% of the time

[burnt moss]

But are you also speaking for gk and meathook? Because I bloodpunched the shit out of a staggered gladiator tonight, until he unstaggered and ate me

[slow sigil]

fairly certain those also where a bit more broken then before. pretty sure there used to be wayy more random BP's instead of gks

[burnt moss]

And then also tonight I froze a caco and positioned the hook target squarely on its bottom, with no reaction.

[slow sigil]

might be that you couldnt see a meathook joint from that position

[burnt moss]

Joint? Have you guys been memorizing demon anatomy to make meathook work?

[slow sigil]

nah i'm fairly sure i've read somewhere that demons have "joints" on their bodies to which meathook can connect. so something like the PE has one in it's eye and on his back, making it pretty weird to meathook

[burnt moss]

So if I sticky or freeze a caco and fall beneath it, I’m just fucked and that’s how the game is supposed to be?

[slow sigil]

[burnt moss]

Between these issues and random crashing, I have a hard time wanting to play UN.

[shy rain]

hate that little place in cultist base with the blood box arena, cuz like the mancubi pincer you from both sides so you can't avoid them

[burnt moss]

I died so many times there. I ended up spawn camping so I could freeze them

[lapis saddle]

I do the Decino strat for that part of saving enough chainsaw gas to cut down one mancubus immediately then duel the other

[burnt moss]

And now I’m walking through the entire TN level on Fast Travel looking for a Praetor Point that’s missing from the map. Gaaaah

[shy rain]

Yessss SSG acquired now nothing stands any chance against me

Now the enemies are all gonna be jokes

[ivory ore]

laughs in buffed everything

[burnt moss]

Seriously why can’t the game just fucking behave. Where’s the praetor point?!

Oh I think it’s related to a mission challenge.

[azure oriole]

gladiator is real iffy. What I do is I approach him, then do not press anything else for a split second and then hit melee.
If I push forward + melee it's nearly always a blood punch instead

otherwise blood punch works pretty consistently, sometimes you blood punch instead of gk if there are other enemies somewhat close to the staggered enemy but it is what it is

at release the blood punch did not trigger often when you wanted to so current situation is much better

even if you sometimes blood punch a buff totem or even a switch

far less of a problem though than not having blood punch work when you are going for a cyber manc

[azure oriole]

it's the fun zone man!

[azure oriole]

cacos have pretty good meathook nodes on them imo, as do most demons.
Pain elementals are the worst as like Luci said they only have one or two.
Meathook is quite consistent these days but sometimes you just don't have a line of sight to the node (or are out of range)

[burnt moss]

In my example there was no excuse. Caco was at about the second floor and I was directly beneath it, falling toward the ground, aiming right at its lower half. Upon hitting the ground, I still couldn’t get it to respond. I have the same issue often with flaming demons

[azure oriole]

you sure meathook wasn't on cooldown?

[burnt moss]

Yes. In this situation uniquely, I had time to stare at the hook target icon, sitting in the center of the screen uselessly.

[azure oriole]

sounds like some glitch then. The icon does appear though even if meathook is on cooldown, you just can't fire it

wait I'm not sure actually if it does

[slow sigil]

sometimes i've clicked meathook too and it just doesnt go, very annoying

[burnt moss]

It doesn’t

[burnt moss]

While on cool down the hook separates into two bracket looking things

I just now checked

[azure oriole]

aight

yeah sometimes it just doesn't work

but the situation you described @burnt moss is one where it should work and more than likely 95 % of the time it will

[warped zenith]

Guys

i think i have found the perfect counter for the possesed hell knight

[burnt moss]

Yeah but it’s not a one-off. I’m constantly dying to issues like this

[slow sigil]

freezing and dblading it once it spawns

[burnt moss]

You can’t freeze a pos

[warped zenith]

all you need is two full lock on rockets and that's it

[burnt moss]

Oh wait I get you

[warped zenith]

no u cant freze it

[slow sigil]

wow who knew lock on is a big counter against pos. demons

[burnt moss]

You can freeze it the second it spawns before the spirit takes over

[warped zenith]

that's why I ABSOLUTE LOVE THE ROCKET LAUNCHER

[opal galleon]

The rock luncher

[slow sigil]

....cause the devs couldnt balance lock on?

[burnt moss]

So yeah to an extent it’s a skill issue because those more skilled than I are able to make it work. But where I’m at a point skill wise where, without these issues I’d be doing better than I am, it’s still frustrating

[warped zenith]

the c laucher

[burnt moss]

The longer earth stronger the shoot my eyes have been in mars

-space to dismiss-

[warped zenith]

what da marauder dog doin @slow sigil

[slow sigil]

spawning again the moment i kill it cause of dumb marauder mechanics

[burnt moss]

Man why do we bother with this broken-ass game

[slow sigil]

cause it's still very fun and unique while the bugs arent too bad all in all

[azure oriole]

they might actually be more prominent on lower frame rates

[burnt moss]

Just about every night I am cussing at the game to do its job correctly.

[burnt moss]

I wish I could get a definitive yes or no on that. Hard to include a maybe in the cost benefit analysis of whether to buy an Xbox

[azure oriole]

Ikr, strongest weapon mod in game is best! It's amazing.

[slow sigil]

buying an xbox solely for doom would be dumb

[azure oriole]

that's up to you ofc but going from 30 fps to 60+ is a major game changer overall

[burnt moss]

Buying a game system not for a specific game is dumber

[azure oriole]

depending on what Xbox you get you could do even 120 fps I think

[burnt moss]

I’d get a series S. What frame rate was the game made for?

[azure oriole]

It wasn't made for any particular frame rate but in general smoothness and responsiveness increase with frame rate and the jump up from 30 to 60+ is massive

also in eternal some physics are frame rate dependant like meathook

the higher the fps the more momentum you gain from a meathook

[slow sigil]

60 mostly, but you can play the game on most framerates
it gets really fun on 250 FPS cause meathook gives you a mega boost

[burnt moss]

Have you had the meathook break because of ground friction?

[slow sigil]

wut, ground friction?

[azure oriole]

I'm not sure I follow, as in the ground brakes you?

[burnt moss]

Yeah. It happens in purple stuff and on stairs. I meathook to a fodder, I slowly get dragged part way and then it breaks off.

[azure oriole]

don't think I have had that happen. The meathook does break though if it clips geo

ground geo in particular

[burnt moss]

Do you guys think the extra work of docked mode would overheat or otherwise affect my Switch?

[slow sigil]

i mean, the switch is made to be docked

[mossy nova]

meat hook is cool

[burnt moss]

In the same way smart cars were made to drive on the freeway. But I test drove one of those in a storm, and…

[mossy nova]

i use it to yeet myself

[azure oriole]

except when it's.... flaming 😎
(CSI Miami theme)

[slow sigil]

we get it, you have a daughter

[burnt moss]

When it works

[mossy nova]

i make it work

[burnt moss]

Good for you

[mossy nova]

thx

[azure oriole]

just for the record dad jokes are not exclusive to dads

[slow sigil]

[azure oriole]

even if they are mostly our thing

[azure oriole]

can anyone help me? i got the plasma rifle mastery and all weapons milestone using the cheatcodes and i got the milestones but not the rewards

[slow flame]

i just did the slayer gates

and doing extra life mode too

i found 8 of em LIKE AFTER CULTIST im really gud

diff: ultra violence

[weary perch]

I beat it on nightmare with all collectibles yesterday 😎

[slow flame]

kewl

[shy rain]

struggling to get re-used to weapon swapping

which is murdering me in one of cultist base's secret encounters

oh my god 8 deaths on this secret encounter why am I so bad

[slow sigil]

cultist base secret encounters are pretty hard, dw

[shy rain]

Those snakes spam their ranged attack like no tomorrow like it's more than I remember it being @slow sigil

like they really spam it

[slow flame]

did u forgor about super gore nest?

[strange gale]

??? your kit at that point is so much better

[slow sigil]

first one is easy, second one is a bit harder but more managable

[smoky yoke]

The holt slayer gate 💀

[slow flame]

ive did that on nightmare yesterday

[smoky yoke]

@slow flame same

[shy rain]

I haven't found a single slayer gate in cultist base just how hidden are these

[slow flame]

i mostly used one bfg ammo for 2 archviles and for the possed marauder the other bfg ammo and then spammed ssg+ballista

[slow sigil]

that one was meant to be hard after they remade it

[slow flame]

i got unmaykr today i can help u

[shy rain]

I've almost cleared cultist base

[smoky yoke]

Did campain on nightmare tag1 and 2 on nightmare sgn master level on ultra nightmare and horde mode on nightmare lol

[slow sigil]

you can see them on the map

it's in the place with the giant doomhunter looking thing btw

[shy rain]

Sheeesh the missile launchers on revenants are so hard to pb quickscope because revenants move so much and the missile launchers are tiny

[slow sigil]

then just dont

[slow flame]

well slayer gate is in the big doom hunter thingy after that u gotta go climb down and continue and u find slayer key then the slayer gate is down there ez

[smoky yoke]

Use balista

[slow flame]

i use lock on burst

[shy rain]

but that's like.. supposed to be efficient

[smoky yoke]

I love horde on nightmare

[shy rain]

pb is op for taking out weakspots

[azure oriole]

don't bother, just hit the body with bal - pb - bal or similar

[shy rain]

I don't have the ballista I'm at cultist base

[slow flame]

i mostly use lock on burst and blood punch for pb replacement

[smoky yoke]

Bruh

[slow flame]

vega why

[smoky yoke]

Ssg balista

[slow flame]

the best thing for possesed marauder

[shy rain]

can't ssg ballista at cultist base :cri:

[slow flame]

did u do the holt slayer gate on nightmare?

[smoky yoke]

Yes

[slow flame]

master level?\

[smoky yoke]

On ultra nightmare

[slow flame]

ive did it too but on nightmare i didnt die i could do it in un lol

[slow sigil]

revenants have so little hp i dont think it's really worth it trying to snipe their canons since they are too small. a singular ssg blast puts them in gk range so

[slow flame]

i just runned when possesed marauder guy

[shy rain]

I don't have much dps output I'm fairly early in the game

[azure oriole]

pb - sticky works too, shoot a few times
Or rocket + blood punch (stagger)
ofc ssg point blank but that misses easily

[slow sigil]

just spamming stickies in their face is enough

[slow flame]

ye like lock on burst can do the work (i mastered it)

[slow sigil]

???? why the absolute fuck would you lock on a revenant

[slow flame]

idk

[shy rain]

takes me like 5 stickies tho

[slow flame]

cuz it kills him

[slow sigil]

🤓 me omw to lock on some fodder

[slow flame]

i mostly chainsaw when mid ammo lol

[smoky yoke]

Does anyone know if demons can die from eachother bc i always see imps fighting eachother lol

[slow sigil]

nope, they dont damage eachother

[slow flame]

revenant is heavy demon

[slow sigil]

and barely has any hp

[slow flame]

not fodder ofc i use plasma on fodder demons

[slow flame]

it has 2k i know cuz in cultist part u play as him

[slow sigil]

differnet hp vallue

[slow flame]

hmm i wonder how many hp all demon has

[smoky yoke]

Battlemode 💀

[azure oriole]

revenant has 2k hp though

[slow sigil]

wait nvm revenants do have actually 2k hp

[azure oriole]

same as whiplashes

[slow flame]

yes thats half of man of cubas

[slow sigil]

1500 to get in stagger range

[azure oriole]

hence the single ssg stagger

[slow sigil]

it's also a waste t lock on those

[azure oriole]

I agree

[slow flame]

lol i say mancubas man of cubas

[smoky yoke]

@slow sigil charge full destroyer blade and just kill them in a group

[azure oriole]

btw has anyone ever successfully one shot staggered a whiplash with the ssg?

[smoky yoke]

@azure oriole no

[slow flame]

i did i also did it with prowler

mostly prowler dies so stagger with ssg is hard

[azure oriole]

okay there hot shot

[smoky yoke]

Ive seen a marauder fall off the map yesterday

[slow flame]

battlemode?

[slow sigil]

once or twice

[slow flame]

if in the holt slayer gate it would be XD

[smoky yoke]

@slow flame nekravol part 2

[slow flame]

yes on that bridge part of course

[azure oriole]

I swear it's near impossible, half of your pellets miss

[smoky yoke]

Rip marauder

[slow flame]

just meathook near them NOT THE powler cuz it kills him

[shy rain]

bruhh can't figure out how to get to the cultist base slayer key

[slow flame]

do i have to record for ya?

[smoky yoke]

@shy rain under the statue

[shy rain]

bruh under it???? wth

[slow flame]

its under the doom hunter

[smoky yoke]

@shy rain there are poles under it

[slow sigil]

they where slithering and i shot them in the tail i think

[slow flame]

i cant send ss cuz it will take time

[shy rain]

I would have assumed it was just a death plane lol, 10/10 level design

[azure oriole]

[slow flame]

i can gib u the place but it takes time its ok?

[shy rain]

Okay I failed miserably at the first slayer gate hope I can do the 2nd one better

[shy rain]

I already got it

[slow flame]

so u got le key?

[shy rain]

yes

[slow flame]

ok good

[slow sigil]

man even i cant make a good lewd joke with that

[smoky yoke]

Im playing kaiser campain and there is a possesed marauder with a bufftotem buff wtf

[slow flame]

what diffculty u are in that u lost the 1st one

[slow flame]

i though it was only in tag1

[smoky yoke]

@slow flame its a mod

[slow flame]

k

btw i heard that in the world spear mission in that big place if u punch the sword it will spawn 5 marauders is it true?

[slow sigil]

yup

[smoky yoke]

Yep

[azure oriole]

yes, also irl

[slow flame]

ok time to go do it

[smoky yoke]

Imma try the master campain mod

Marauder voice is so hot ngl

[wary kiln]

In my time using it

[shy rain]

I swear I keep getting hit and I have no clue from where

just one second I'm at full health and the next I'm almost dead

[smoky yoke]

Imps

[shy rain]

but I'm like constantly flanking and leading it should be really difficult for them to hit me

[smoky yoke]

Noob tactics

[shy rain]

no clue how they're managing to hit me

[smoky yoke]

Smash

[azure oriole]

unmaykr is good if you combine it in short bursts with various combos on superheavies primarily and also has many other uses, but you must use it conservatively since your ammo quickly drains, unlike bfg which just destroys everything in an instant for 30 rounds. it also can melt several heavies if you have 5 heavies right in your face, in very short amount of time for almost no ammo.

[wary kiln]

Yeah true I just meant by it self lol

[azure oriole]

Yeah by itself bfg is just more reliable, you fire it everything dies.

[smoky yoke]

I never use super weapons

[shy rain]

oh god I think I'm getting killed because of those teleporting purple jerkbags

[smoky yoke]

@shy rain prowler aka enderman of doom

[shy rain]

aaaa I hate having an early game arsenal

[azure oriole]

can be fun samurai, but i don't that much either. I like using all the weapons though. Unmaykr can be amusing to play around with in combo with other things. It's sad to have a weapon or mod and then never use it cause reasons.

[shy rain]

There's like no grace period after a glory kill animation, if something is actively firing at you you will get hit like the frame after you exit it, no time to get away

[slow sigil]

what if i told you it barely does more DPS then just pb swaps, and that bfg is wayyy better anyways?

[shy rain]

like what

[golden sedge]

I recently completed all master levels on ultra violence lol

[smoky yoke]

@azure oriole true

[slow sigil]

things wont fire at you while GKing

[shy rain]

the frame after I left GK I died to mancubus fire

[smoky yoke]

@golden sedge i did sgn master level ultra nightmare

[shy rain]

like r i g h t after

[slow sigil]

their close range fire?

[shy rain]

instantaneously died to fire

[azure oriole]

Why not use bfg all the time it's clearly superior to anything else luci?

[slow sigil]

limited ammo and it's not always superior to other things

[shy rain]

I'm getting so annoyed lol

[azure oriole]

bfg is literally always superior to all things

[slow sigil]

with less demon amounts it's better to not do it to not waste it's ammo

[smoky yoke]

@shy rain need a hug

[azure oriole]

yes but it's supierior so why not use it all the time

[shy rain]

I'm going to stream this so people can watch my suffering

[golden sedge]

Id smash mancubi

[smoky yoke]

@golden sedge archvile

Anyone ever seen a possesed archvile

[azure oriole]

it's this mindset again that you have to pick always the 'best option' no matter what and use no other combinations.. It's so frustrating to listen to.

[golden sedge]

Use what u like lmao

[azure oriole]

why didn't ID just put 1 gun in game, clearly best option you just run around with it

[shy rain]

Anyone gonna watch or what, I like really need help

[azure oriole]

well i do, but some keep telling me how i and others should play wafie 😄

[shy rain]

How am I ever gonna beat UN like this lol..

[smoky yoke]

@shy rain try nightmare first a few times

[golden sedge]

[slow sigil]

i somehow read over the fun part, dumb

[smoky yoke]

You were never one of us,you are nothint but a userper a false idol,my eyes have been opened,let me help you to see slayer.

*nothing

[golden sedge]

I'm going to shit yourself

[smoky yoke]

I know that meme

[shy rain]

Ooookay did the slayer gate

[shy rain]

you want me to do 3 nightmare playthroughs? :cri:

[smoky yoke]

Why did it take you so long furry

@shy rain yes

[shy rain]

cuzzz it's hard with a weak earlygame loadout

[golden sedge]

Just shoot demons

[smoky yoke]

Big guy shoots demons

The entire lore

[golden sedge]

Guy angry at demons, what happens next is shocking

[smoky yoke]

Yes

Demon kill rabit

[golden sedge]

Demon kills rabbit, instantly regrets it

[smoky yoke]

Big guy gets angry at demons at.shoots them

Big guy kills big demon(icon of sin)

[shy rain]

robot man tries to extract energy from hell, instantly regrets it

[smoky yoke]

Big man destroys life sphere

Robot man is seraphim

[mossy nova]

why is arc complex ML easy on nightmare

[shy rain]

why is cultist base so hard

[mossy nova]

i finished arc complex ML on nightmare btw

[smoky yoke]

Bc you have a lot of skips

[golden sedge]

Fat boys

[mossy nova]

wdym

[smoky yoke]

@mossy nova you can skip the entire level witch a skip glitch

*with

@shy rain why do you suck

[mossy nova]

i didnt do the skip glitch i played it for fun

[smoky yoke]

@mossy nova i love sgn master level on un

[mossy nova]

okay

[shy rain]

Because I haven't played in a year

[smoky yoke]

@shy rain wanna get teached

[mossy nova]

i also used the pb lock on burst quick switching

[golden sedge]

I wanna play dlcs so bad 😫

[mossy nova]

in just 2 quick switches i killed it by glory killing it

[smoky yoke]

@golden sedge pay up

[slow sigil]

a lil bit till summer sales

[golden sedge]

Yeah, Im gonna get money soon and buy them

[mossy nova]

buy the 1 year pass

[golden sedge]

Yup gonna do that

It's on sale I think

[slow sigil]

not yet i thought

[mossy nova]

but for me i get them by buying both of them but after that i asked my godfather to buy it for me he agreed but steam warned me i wont get a second copy both of the dlc i ignored it and enjoyed the rewards demonic slayer and funni classin sound pack

[smoky yoke]

I bougt only the dlcs and rip and tear pack

[mossy nova]

cool

the lock on burst pb combo against the marauder is effective

the reason why i bought doom eternal was to distract me from fnaf sb

[slow flame]

dam the sword wasnt there

[mossy nova]

but i got addicted to doom eternal

[slow flame]

to find that sword in the world spear that spawn 5 marauders

was it a mod?

[slow flame]

the sword wasnt here 💀

[smoky yoke]

Lol

[slow flame]

for the 5 marauders

[mossy nova]

no you need to get fast travel first and travel to that location thats what heard

[slow flame]

oh ok]

[mossy nova]

try it it might work

[slow flame]

in the wolrd spear mission ye?

ill do it later

[azure oriole]

I like the credits cinematic where the zombie is playing with toys of a tyrant and a slayer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTGcQfxWsNI

[shy rain]

alone in vc I am

[smoky yoke]

Not for long

[mossy nova]

yes

[mossy nova]

super shotgun is good shooty boi

[ivory ore]

It doesn’t

It ain’t tribal, it’s completely made up by the devs

Just like how every other video game has made nonsensical scribbles and labeled it as their game’s logo, or “language”

It USED to have a meaning to it, but has since been changed during the game’s development and kinda doesn’t make sense anymore, but eh

[azure oriole]

it's not 'tribal' it's just arcane markings in a language of the expanded lore of doom 2016/doom eternal to represent the doom slayer and the entire background story of sentinels, wraiths, maykrs, argent d'nur and all the rest of it. The various sigils and things are way more prevalent in doom 2016 than eternal, the doom slayer one is doom slayers sigil or his real name or something like this, or a symbol of him. The sentinels used to have him as their leader for a little bit also. And then if you play the game you figure out who he is and who the dark lord is and all this other stuff.

No doom game is complete without weird symbols and sigils in arcane strange languages that few know what means. It's part of the atmosphere in a big way.

I think they did a great job adding all that in, for example the corax tablet, hugo has admitted they have no idea what that is, was some geniuses on the team who kept coming up with awesome lines like that for the game. And that was one of them. You don't hear of corax tablets anymore than that. And i think the symbols is similar thing, or they mean something a little bit atleast some of them.

I think iirc. ID have said it's something like it's a sword plunging down on something like a sword of justice/vengance and then the 4 squigglies mean something too. It's just like creative juices were flowing, hugo also laughed at the same who came up with the corax tablets line also came up with like 'demon is an offensive term, refer to them as mortally challenged', and stuff like that.

I think he really like the game. It's not weak story it's pretty good lore to make it more interesting imo. What is done is done anyways, no point complaining about it now.

[patent stream]

What

This some low grade bait

[azure oriole]

You really so unhappy with it? personally i think it adds to the vibe and the mystery and to make some actual lore other than someone hurt his rabbit therefore he go to hell and fight them. Doom 2016 i thought was really good with that, doom eternal continued that and then you can disagree with the dlc endings, but, it's not bad. You need to have some weird arcane symbols and sigils in a doom game and things that are mysterious and a bit obscure. At same time it's also smart dumb in that the storyline is actually quite more interesting with parallels to gnosticism, and at same time you don't really have to know that or be interested in storyline to enjoy the environment and the story cause it doesn't push overtly the lore on you.

[patent stream]

Actually no I went through all his message logs he barely joined and is only baiting

[azure oriole]

That's probably just his oppinion, but that is thing with bait and trolling, when it's so much cause some idiot kid think he invent humor(the wheel) for the nth time with irony sarcasm and stupid jokes, it's hard to know when is which. Is why sarcasm and dumb shit is really shouldn't be allowed. Some could just be saying it strictly to provoke or annoy and for no other reason.

[patent stream]

Oh I don’t allow super shitty sarcasm or dumb shit. Falls under shitposting or baiting

[wary kiln]

How do you get the gold weapons?

[patent stream]

However his words in general proved he was Baiting

[azure oriole]

wilson by completing i think dlc1

[patent stream]

Tag 2 on nightmare

[azure oriole]

oh it's tag 2 my bad

[patent stream]

Bfg is all codex in tag 2

[wary kiln]

So I only have to buy Tag 2?

[patent stream]

Gold combat shotgun is beat all challenges in super gore nest master level

Buy and beat tag 2 on nightmare and get all codex

[wary kiln]

YAY I SAVE $20

[patent stream]

What platform are you on?

[azure oriole]

Well will, you also have to play it and complete it, but you can do that on very low difficulty if you want. Then there's a gold shotgun which you can only obtain via gore nest masterlevel and then there's some gold skins for passing ultranightmare etc.

[wary kiln]

PS4

[patent stream]

I would suggest waiting for a sale. Will be cheaper

[wary kiln]

When?

[patent stream]

Unknown but sales happen pretty often

[wary kiln]

:/ I have no patience

[patent stream]

Then go for it 🤷‍♂️

[wary kiln]

I guess I will wait until this month is over

[patent stream]

In my personal opinion I enjoyed tag 2 more than 1

I found the world environments very beautiful. And the overall gameplay was less nonstop action and more fun

[azure oriole]

they are a little bit bigger the levels, bit more room to move around. I think the dlc's were well done atmospherically and i like how they tried different kinds of terrain and environment for most of the levels instead of just doing like in 2016 where it really felt like you were way too much in one environment

one of my favourites is from dlc1 though the UAC Atlantica level, it's beautiful with the rain and thunder and all this.

[lapis saddle]

My favorite TAG level is the Blood Swamps personally. I think both TAG parts are quite good though

[azure oriole]

Yeah blood swamp is really nice too. I really can't find a level that i totally dislike, except i prefer the dlc1 and dlc2 ones for replay cause there's more stuff going on, or master levels. But then i can do a runthrough of the campaign ones too.

I think i like the UAC atlantica most cause it's more like there is environment going on in the background which adds to immersion. You in an ocean you can see waves crashing you can see thunder, and rain. In the other maps the environment is more stable there's not some snow or things like that. Also the installation itself the various parts of it is pretty decently made. And on the parkour parts you on some containers over water and you can see ships on fire and all that after self destruct. And then you go IN the water. I think that's one of the maps with most atmosphere for that reason.

[valid wren]

Doom fans when they see reloading:
worst game ever 0/10

It isnt really that funny however its true for the most part

[slow sigil]

you literally have to reload the ssg

[valid wren]

Yeah

[flint flame]

Manual reloading

[valid wren]

There was some dude who said that its good that doom doesn't have reloading yet you reload the ssg in every game

[azure oriole]

yeah but not manually, can you imagine manual reload in this game, yuck..

[valid wren]

Its still reloading

manual or not

[azure oriole]

true, but it matters if it's automatic reloading or if you have to actually press a dang button to do it. Makes a huge difference

[jaunty vapor]

I think its better we don't have reloading, but that said I think some form of reload could have been implemented in a way while not completely destroying the tempo of the game.

[valid wren]

I get what youre saying but its still reloading, yet a few folks dont count that and call almost all doom games reloading less

[sacred dirge]

Yeah.. reloading would be a bad idea

[valid wren]

the only doom game if we could count doom rpg(because i did not see a lot of gameplay of it) its doom 1, it has no reloading at all

[azure oriole]

i don't get the point of having manual reload in this game, i think wisely ID opted out of that. The nice combos we have and the sophisticated tech you could barely even do that with also reloading factored in. It's just is too much of a laborious routine that would just get in the way of enjoyment. Chainsawing is more than enough.

[patent stream]

Reloading is perfectly fine and could even help make the game more suspenseful but it would have to be added purposefully

[patent stream]

My guy isn’t doom 3 one of your favorites

[sacred dirge]

I don't feel it has a place in New doom or classic because of the pace. Works great in 3 though

[patent stream]

Keep in mind. I don’t think reloading in a game as fast as doom eternal or 2016 would work.

But a game that’s only SLIGHTLY slower than 2016 with fairly quick reloads would work

[valid wren]

I feel like more reloading in doom games would make A LOT of fans angry

[azure oriole]

yeah in doom 3 it works, in eternal everything is too fast and you have too many different darn weapons that you use in combination with eachother.. wait a minute give me 5 seconds to reload 3 different weapons. What a nightmare.

[valid wren]

reloading its a good thing, its depends on each game, doom isnt quite that one

[patent stream]

Fans get angry if you breathe wrong. As long as they make it work properly and purposefully it will be fine

[sacred dirge]

One way it would work in new doom is a 2 or 1 shot super weapon that's crazy powerful. Trade off of use is a reload or cool down which stops your ability to swap also of course. Punishment for use

[azure oriole]

what's the point to have MANUAL reload in this game? i'm really curious. it would just be an extra thing you need to constantly be doing for very little reason.

[valid wren]

Could somewhat work on one or two weapons IF the reloading would have been short

[sacred dirge]

Just realized I described the classic ssg lol

[jaunty vapor]

Deadlink does it where you can restack ammo right into your mag, but if you're not good at restacking you can "always reload your shotgun". It feels good as a mechanic, ironically because reloading is a punishment for bad restacking, while still allowing you some leeway. But you can also reload preemptively while doing movement so you are prepped with max ammo in case you think you'll need it, so there's a bit of depth beyond it just being a pumishment. I think reload in these types of games (doomer shooters, arena shooters, whatever you wanna call them) can be worked in well. But not every game is the same. ...honestly it just depends on the game rather than genre of game. 🤣

[valid wren]

Although its not likely the new doom games will have them

[sacred dirge]

If it's implemented it would need to be a trade off in use. Something worth the reload punishment

Granted things like this have been tried before. Like a relatively long time to charge a bfg shot

[patent stream]

Better and stronger weapon. Feedback with the reload being the compromise

Instead of needing to shoot a billion rounds into a demon, now guns are much much more impactful and have better feedback. Including with the destructible demons.

[azure oriole]

here's too much going on with weapon switching flame belch, blood punch glorykill and the various things to think of oh i have to reload every weapon before it runs low. So you want to put manual reload on the weapons in that situation? I can totally understand why they said no fuck that.

[patent stream]

You assume half of that returns for the next game

[azure oriole]

what is the next game, i thought we were talking this game

[patent stream]

Obviously not

This game is already done

[slow flame]

when u see a possesed + buffed + pink buff ( i forgot its name) + empowered marauder

[slow sigil]

i mean, yall do know the chainsaw rn is basically reloading right

[jaunty vapor]

If we're being really technical, reloading is just an over animated weapon cooldown/fire rate, except most games the "automatic reload when you run out" is slower than if you press reload manually right as you hit 0 ammo, so there's actually some depth to reload. Kinda like the depth that punch swaps or quick swaps have.

[azure oriole]

where was it obvious that we were talking of another game than doom eternal? i must have missed that

[slow flame]

when

[azure oriole]

yeah that's what i mean, that's plenty enough imo compared to how fast pace the fighting is. But can you imagine chainsaw + manual reload on every weapon? geez.

[patent stream]

Reloads every 2 seconds

[full tinsel]

bloodshot can you speedrun from mars to moon to earth in sub 1hr?

😛

[patent stream]

The next game would also be assumed it would have a much less over reliance on quickswapping

[jaunty vapor]

Nah, too busy speedrunning demos like an idiot 🤣

[full tinsel]

https://giphy.com/gifs/nathan-fielder-11mwI67GLeMvgA

[slow flame]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/918513799655477318.gif?v=1&size=48&quality=lossless

[lapis saddle]

Manual reload works in Doom 3 as well as in Blood so I don’t see why it couldn’t work in a new Doom

[sacred dirge]

Pacing. Same reason it doesn't work in classic

Ssg reload is nice though

[slow flame]

https://tenor.com/view/bob-mod-fnf-bob-fnf-bob-dance-swag-dance-gif-22443576

[sacred dirge]

But as i mentioned. Its a trade off for power. Which would work

[azure oriole]

ofcourse it works, no matter how fast paced game, but it will just annoy like 90% of the players of having to do laborious shit whilst already being an octopus on keyboard and mouse.

[sacred dirge]

It really wouldn't

[patent stream]

You need to play more games 👀

[sacred dirge]

A few guns like ssg bfg sure for the trade off if power. But otherwise I can see alot of runs and harder maps or wads just not being doable

[jaunty vapor]

I think you're overestimating how much people dislike reloading. Some people like it, it reaaaally just depends on the game, and without seeing "the next Doom", who knows it it would work or not.

I dont think it would necessarily, but I also don't think it'd be a death knell or anything

[lapis saddle]

In general I hope the next Doom puts higher focus on utility options. Stuff like microwave beam is really interesting so it sucks that they tend to be not very useful

[patent stream]

Plenty of fast paced games have reloading and work perfectly fine

[sacred dirge]

We re talking about doom. And I don't

Which is why I know what I'm talking about

[patent stream]

“WeRe TaLkInG aBoUt DoOm”

[jaunty vapor]

Also seriously we should stop saying "SSG reloads" it's not reloading, it's just an over animated fire rate.

Cause otherwise Ballista and Dblade also reload

[patent stream]

Doom 3 had reloading
Prodeus, a game that plays very similiar to doom, also has reloading and works perfectly fine

[sacred dirge]

Sure which is why I also call it a cool down

[jaunty vapor]

Eeeh semantics

[azure oriole]

it's not about disliking reloading you can easily do it but it just seems obnoxious in a very fast paced game that relies on weapon combos in rapid succession etc. So you would have to dial those down instead. It's one extra thing you have to do constantly, so depending on how many things the game needs you to already do simultaneously already, it can really piss people off.

[lapis saddle]

I don’t really want reloading but it would probably be fine

They should really be dialing back the quick weapon combos regardless of whether reloading is in the next Doom

Too much of Eternal revolves around it

[azure oriole]

really, i think it's one of the coolest things about the game entirely

[sacred dirge]

Like I mentioned Bob seeing the similarities between classic and new doom pace I'd say adding universal reloading as a burden to the game play. I don't see anything positive coming from it other than a cool animation and slowing the pace down

A few key weapons sure. Something to balance them out. But other than that no.

[jaunty vapor]

It depends on the style of game they want. A lot of people theorize they're gonna focus more on parries and weakpoints, and quick swaps don't fit into that well. Reloading might, in theory.

[lapis saddle]

The problem with quick swapping is that it makes weapons more homogeneous and causes automatic weapons to be really awkward to balance. I’d much rather have weapons that are actually unique than switching constantly

[patent stream]

You really should play produes

[azure oriole]

yeah, reloading and fast reload if you reload before mag is empty has been done to death already, i don't see how it's an element that produces more interesting gameplay. In fast paced games they dial reloading down cause it's imbicilic. If you go WAY BACK to the quake arena games, wasn't no reloading there iirc. You don't reload rocket launcher before everytime you fire, for 'immersement'. I think the reload element is best for covert ops games or peek games.

[lapis saddle]

I tried Prodeus and it gave me constant migraines. Interesting gameplay but terrible art direction

[sacred dirge]

I don't see why they would add reloading when not reloading is a core mechanic of classics which they wanted to emulate. But if they're going into a new style of play maybe. But I'd highly doubt it

[patent stream]

You could adjust the graphics and resolution and colors ya know

[azure oriole]

they make it pixellated low tech so they can do a budget game, but it's not bad gameplay unless the graphics truly just annoy you then it's just not for you

[lapis saddle]

The graphics weren’t annoying. They literally made my head hurt from trying to parse them

[jaunty vapor]

It adds player choice, albeit in a small way. Giving the player any amount of control over something in the game is better than not, so allowing them to "reload faster by pressing a button" rather than just running out and reloading automatically makes them feel on control

[sacred dirge]

Prodeus looks great honestly

[jaunty vapor]

It's one of the things that flys under the radar of most players when it's there's, but they'd miss it if it weren't there

[sacred dirge]

Also adds a new mechanics that alters play. As a controller player it might even mean I have to adjust off the sticks to activate a dumb animation

[azure oriole]

yeah it's just nothing new, i prefer all the quick swapping instead that has been a lot of fun, because most have played this games where you have to reload manually all the time. But you need less to be going on and you need to have fewer weapons and not have really that many combo options, if you want reloads factored in. That's the tradeoff.

Can you somehow bypass the “device does not fill the requirements” page on steam?

[lapis saddle]

I hate stuff like “manually press reload to speed up the animation” it’s literally just adding an input without giving the player a meaningful decision.

[sacred dirge]

I agree with Bob that to much depends on quickswaps though

Where in 2016 is was an effective trick to destroy demons now it's become a necessary mechanic

[azure oriole]

THIS this is exactly what i am saying. What's the point, it's in so many games, it's giving you an extra input you have to press all the time.. unless there's an extremely good reason for that, it's kind of just gets in the way of the enjoyment.

[jaunty vapor]

I mean you're talking about "it's nothing new", but neither is animation cancelling in Doom Eternal it's been done to death, even CoD had animation cancels.

Whether it's new or overdone doesn't necessarily contribute to it being interesting or not.

[lapis saddle]

It’s not a meaningful decision. It’s literally just punishing players for failing to time a button for something that could just be automatic

[jaunty vapor]

I understand the point about swaps in DE being a more interesting mechanic, yes, but reloading also has quirks that make it "interesting" in the games that use it for the most part.

[strange gale]

reload canceling has been a thing forever, the way d16/eternal do it is just visually different

[azure oriole]

did you just post an emoji of yourself thinking? 😄 i don't see the point why you want reload necessarily. But i think ID will decide if it fits in the gameplay or it doesn't. But i totally understand why they decided no, for doom eternal. Cause i just can't see this game with manual reload, it would be strange and stupid.

[jaunty vapor]

If you're talking about Gears of Wars style, sure (although personally I'm fine with it).

I was more talking about just bare minimum CoD reloading, pressing x as soon as you shoot the last shot of a gun starts the reload ASAP, rather than you waiting for it to reload

[lapis saddle]

Reloading is fine. Reloading that is finicky for no reason whatsoever is stupid

[sacred dirge]

Anyways I could see alot of doom fans including me wondering why the fuck reloading exists now. I doubt it'll ever happen in new doom so it doesn't really matter

[sacred dirge]

They did it for 2016 because it's a core mechanic of classic doom. Many people including me went crazy to see no reloading when they showed gameplay. It was something kept for eternal

[jaunty vapor]

Did you just mention my thinking emote thanks for pointing it out it was extremely relevant.

I didn't say I want reload. I'm saying it wouldn't be a death sentence for a game, and it COULD be made to fit the game. I don't want reload in the next Doom game personally though. Thanks for assuming I did want it though.

[azure oriole]

I just find it funny it's like referring to yourself in 3rd person in a way, to use an emote made about you, about yourself.

[shy rain]

OST would sound so cool if some of the OST had a choir backing, still sounds cool but just minor gripe for little to no latin choir for yknow, demon murdering

[azure oriole]

Was there really manual reload in classic doom?

[shy rain]

choirs are so cool, gives an epic sense of scale

[sacred dirge]

No.

[shy rain]

I think some of the OST tracks in TAG have a choir

[azure oriole]

Oh you mean the no reload you were glad they kept that, yeah i agree with that. With new game whatever it is let's see what happens.

[jaunty vapor]

I mean most streamers have emotes of their brand/mascot or whatever, it's usually typical, it's just that I made mine look like the typical emoticons since mine was a stick figure anyways so it kinda worked. Don't see the humor in it

[sacred dirge]

Absolutely. You have to remember 2016 really brought back that boomer shooter vibe from the grave. No reloading is an important part of that

[shy rain]

reloading would have really bogged it down

it's unnecessary

[azure oriole]

you don't get it. there's nothing wrong with your emote and it fit your stickfigure, it's that you use in a conversation that you are having, about yourself, so it's kind of like referring to yourself in 3rd person. Rather than someone else bringing you up. Anyways, it's fine. nothing wrong with the stickman.

[shy rain]

doom's not supposed to be a realistic epic military shooter where you use one button to control each individual finger on your character smh

wonder what's coming in the next game, eternal's just so perfect I'm not sure how they could possibly build on top of it

might be some of the most perfected combat mechanics in just any fps ever

[lapis saddle]

The next game will probably go a very different direction than Eternal so as to not compete with it

[shy rain]

I mean but it's a doom game, how can you really go a different direction? this is what it's all about

[strange gale]

i feel like you could probably make deadlink style reloading work in deternal. restacking is so embedded in both games that you could just slap the "mark x target and kill it within y time frame to add ammo to your mag" thing onto deternal and have it work immediately (meathook is exactly this but with armor)

[shy rain]

Either that or they just don't make another doom game for a good 10 years, or just keep giving eternal new dlc

alternatively the sequel might just not build much in terms of mechanics but rather just refines the level and enemy design because with the enemies there were a couple rough edges

[lapis saddle]

There’s a lot of flexibility within what Doom is. You’ll still be aggressively killing demons, but they could make you run faster while having less forgiving resource management for example

[shy rain]

or idk maybe we'll get a remake of the original doom

[shy rain]

I mean that's what eternal already did pretty much

less forgiving resource management

[strange gale]

ammo management ended up not being very important anyway

it's less forgiving relatively but still easy

[shy rain]

pffft you say that but then all the game journalists and reviewers starting complaining about it

[lapis saddle]

Hugo Martin made a remark in an interview about wanting the next Doom to “feel like a monster truck” while comparing Eternal to a racecar.

[shy rain]

so like idk, bigger destruction and more grit?

[strange gale]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/504714848194527236/988458473748590682/whisper.jpg

[shy rain]

yknow now that I think about it, imagine a doom game with a destructible enviroment, that could really sell your sheer power a bit more

[jaunty vapor]

This seems weird that others should be able to use/enjoy my emotes normally/without it being weird but not myself, but ok. I'll let Xiae, Xamide, Mute, Raitro, Bry, ... ... Etc know they're all definitely talking in the 3rd person when using their own emotes based on their brand and not just e hoting the emotes they made

[shy rain]

that would be cool if when popping a demon's head off you also leave a chunk in the rock behind them

maybe more granular demon destruction too

[lapis saddle]

I’m expecting the pace to be slightly slower with beefier weapons and maybe more AOE options like the hammer or grenades

[shy rain]

if we're keeping up pace with 2016 and eternal then next game's probably gonna get announced next year

[shy rain]

I'm not quite sure that would work for doom.. the fast paced aggressive combat is what it's all about, and what it was about in the classics too

slower heavier combat doesn't really.. fit

if they take it that direction I'm not sure I'd like it

don't want a doom 3 situation again

[jaunty vapor]

Agreed. I think they'll focus on weak points being more of a "different state" for demons rather than it completely neutering certain enemies. Something like hitting the center or the backpack of a Carcass makes it go into a "spinning frenzy" where it no longer shields, but does beyblades only (assuming a similar carcass returns of course)

[shy rain]

also.. how would they explain away why doomguy is suddenly a decent amount slower...

[lapis saddle]

Yeah but Eternal kinda reached a limit of being fast where I think going faster would alienate too many players. Also Doom 3 is a good game and a proper Doom game

[azure oriole]

Why not? Doom 3 is incredible.

[shy rain]

I mean eternal is basically perfect, hard to top it, and nah I don't think doom 3 is that fun at all

[azure oriole]

Lame

[shy rain]

doom 3 isn't what I go for with doom, I don't like it

[lapis saddle]

Eternal is not “basically perfect”
It’s very good but it has some significant problems as well

[shy rain]

the slower, clunkier and more horror-focused direction I don't find fun

[azure oriole]

I mean Doom 3 is more like Doom than Eternal is.

[shy rain]

it's as close to perfect as anyone's gotten with this kind of fps imo, I don't think any problems are particularly significant and experience destroying

[jaunty vapor]

As much as I love DEs movement, I don't think it can be expanded upon in any way that would make it better more interesting in an organic sort of way. Like they could add WALL RUNNING but to be honest I don't think it would really mesh that well, or at least I don't think id could design it on a way to make it work well

[shy rain]

Bro like what, it went in sort of the opposite direction there's a reason it's a footnote in the franchise for most

[lapis saddle]

Doom 3 isn’t horror despite what the first 3 hours would have you believe. It’s a bit more tactical but still pretty quick once you get past the first third

[shy rain]

different enough to have made most of the fans at the time not really care

[jaunty vapor]

We already have wall dashes, bhops which GAIN speed... Air Control existing XD anything more to DEs movement would at this point most likely be overkill

[shy rain]

and I agree with them I don't really like it that much

[shy rain]

Yeah I'm not particularly sure how you'd refine it any further

[azure oriole]

Absolutely not. This is objectively wrong. Doom Eternal doesn't play at all like the originals - it takes much more design philosophy from the Quake games and their emphasis on movement, especially vertical. It's also an arena shooter, which Doom wasn't before 2016

Eternal is my favorite game in the series, but it is very different from the original Doom.

[jaunty vapor]

There's small quality of life stuff. Make everything NOT fps dependent for one

Maybe make monkey bars require a jump input so they don't fuck with momentum inadvertently

But there's not many big changes to movement they could do that would be "better", nothing obvious anyways

[shy rain]

A lot of that is pretty tangential from the core design which was pretty similar, the game feels the same as the classic ones, that other stuff is pretty like, outer rim exterior to the core

for the record I've played the classics and I like them

[slow sigil]

idk why devs even make stuff fps dependent in this age

[strange gale]

it'd be way more interesting to remove weakpoints in relation to what kind of space you're in or where the enemies are (a carc spinning towards you at high speed in a tight space is for the most part worse than just having it put up a shield every once in a while. we all know just how much damage the beyblade does)

vs what it is rn, weakpoint gone = no damage

[azure oriole]

Doom 3 on the other hand is much more faithful as a modernization of Doom's original combat loop, with an emphasis on large sprawling techbases, balanced weapons that complement each other, and a feeling of isolation amidst legions of monsters.

[shy rain]

although I'd still take eternal over them any day

[shy rain]

but like, the core, the feeling of it, it feels different

there's a reason I don't particularly like it compared to the rest of the series

[azure oriole]

Reminder that the original Doom was often perceived as a grueling and terrifying horror game before Doom II's larger emphasis on action and the series' continued emphasis on action changed this.

[jaunty vapor]

Exactly. In some instances, hitting the weakpoint would be a boon so maybe you aim for it. In other instances it would be a detriment so you have to avoid hitting the weakpoint. A lot of depth could come from a system like this I think

[shy rain]

I never really got that much of a horror vibe from the original, it seemed horror inspired, but I didn't find it particularly scary or terrifying

[lapis saddle]

My only gripe with Doom 3 is that it takes too long for the game to properly get going

[azure oriole]

And Doom 3 ain't nowhere near the worst Doom game anyway.

[shy rain]

doom rpg might be the worst, pfft

[jaunty vapor]

Another fun example would be if Arachnotrons actually could hang from walls/ceilings in any arena (rather than DEs 3 spots), make the legs a weakpoint that causes them to fall and get stunned for a bit

[shy rain]

either way if they make doom slower and clunkier I probably wont like it and I'll just stick to replaying eternal

anyway has anyone seen doom rpg?

[jaunty vapor]

My pipe dream is that they make a new 20-30$ game/dlc that's just Doom Eternal snap map/modding tools, including map editor

[azure oriole]

That's because you're viewing it from a modern lens.
Look at it from the POV of someone living in 1993. The game was considered photorealistic. The ultimate immersion, a game that had you, a lone man, stuck on a space station on Mars with nobody to help - surrounded by snarling, terrifying demons in the dark. Multiple moments where you would flip a switch only for the lights to go out and the roars of Imps to fill your ears.
The game was conceptualized as action, but for a while it was considered to be terrifying.

[shy rain]

Hm.. yeah I see where you're coming from

[azure oriole]

That changed with Doom II's larger, more open scale, and then further with advances like modding and the comic and shit like that.

[shy rain]

I still don't like particularly like 3 though despite

[jaunty vapor]

Cause at this point I just wanna play Doom Eternals engine in new levels. Speedrun levels, new arenas obviously, custom stupid game modes, the works.

[proud parrot]

Mans made a whole essay on doom

[shy rain]

I'd love just more content as dlc like TAG tbh

[azure oriole]

So in that regard, Doom 3 is much more faithful to Doom. It harkens back to the original feeling Doom gave off, but for the age 3 was in.

[shy rain]

imo doom 64 has much more of a horror vibe to it than doom 1

music's a lot creepier and more atmospheric

[azure oriole]

6 sentences is an essay
I wish your English teacher a very nice and stress-free day. She needs it.

[shy rain]

ehhh.. from a modern lens though, which I have, it feels like a divergence

[proud parrot]

It was sarcastic gaw dam

[shy rain]

as a newer fan I don't like it

[azure oriole]

I can get that, but I just think it's important to remember that the modern duology is much more a divergence from Doom than 3 is.

[shy rain]

I don't think any amount of explanation for it or praise of it would make me like it either tbh

[lapis saddle]

I absolutely want the ability to make and share Eternal levels. I think that a good compromise route could be to have a Master Level maker where you can switch out game objects in a campaign level but not geometry

[shy rain]

oddly enough though I like doom 64 despite the a bit more horror focused direction

[jaunty vapor]

Use /s or to denote sarcasm

[amber pond]

Hi

[jaunty vapor]

Or try actually being funny next time

[shy rain]

I sort of hate doom 3's art direction, it doesn't feel distinctly doom at all, is reminiscent of the "cinematic shooters" of that time

[azure oriole]

I can get that.

I personally feel that even though Eternal's the best of the series, even 3 has things it does better than any other installment.

[shy rain]

they had that in doom 2016 didn't they?

[shy rain]

I guess I'd call it more of a success as a horror game

[azure oriole]

Even as an action game it's great, especially in ROE and Lost Mission.

[shy rain]

although some of it's decisions were just.. annoying, which led to things like the tape mod

[azure oriole]

Nah the tape mod ruins it.

Ideally the best way to play Doom 3 is with the separated flashlight, as annoying as it may be.

[lapis saddle]

I have mixed feelings about Doom 3’s visual design. Hell knights and imps look pretty good, cacos not so much

[azure oriole]

Sabaoth, Hell Knights, Vagaries, Cherubs, Bruisers are all great.

[shy rain]

a lot of people disagree, hence how many downloads it got at the time

[lapis saddle]

Doom 3 cacos just look sad

[azure oriole]

But they dropped the ball on shit like Imps and Archviles.

[shy rain]

a lot of people found it to just be annoying more than anything

[azure oriole]

Those people failed to understand Doom 3's balancing.

[shy rain]

Doesn't change the fact they didn't particularly enjoy it as a feature, ultimately the player's enjoyment is paramount

[sacred dirge]

Hell ya

[shy rain]

technically good design or not people clearly didn't like it that much

[strange gale]

you might as well just play f.e.a.r. at that point

[azure oriole]

Well yeah but if their reasons for not enjoying it are dumb then I'll disregard them. If the players had their way every Doom game would be like Eternal, when the strength of Doom as a franchise is how versatile it is.

You have to have lows to properly appreciate the highs.

[sacred dirge]

We all did when it came out for the most part. Doom 3 hate is a modern mystery lol

Built my pc around having it run doom 3. Alot of doom fans did

[shy rain]

I mean I'm a game developer I wouldn't particularly just disregard people's feelings on a game, after all you're trying to make something fun that people like, any feedback is important to listen to as long as it's not contrary to what the fans are actually thinking

[azure oriole]

Doom 3's flashlight balancing was intentional. It was to balance the game's combat and present the player with a binary choice between clearly being able to see your target or being able to properly attack them. The game was balanced around that and it's why the first third of the game or so feels so slow when you're playing a modern version, because those parts were balanced for a different game.

[shy rain]

I don't know how you could pull this off but if people had problems with it maybe it should have been handled differently, in a way that wouldn't have made people have an issue with it but would have maintained the balance

disregarding a big swathe of your community's feedback as a developer is just dumb

[azure oriole]

I'm a game developer too! What I'm saying is you can't cater to fans either, because fans remember the highs but forget the lows, and you cannot properly appreciate one without the other.

[shy rain]

Yes but I mean with the popularity of the tape mod there's clearly something to be gleamed from it

[azure oriole]

And even then, the vast majority of the community loved Doom 3. Doom 3 received critical acclaim when it released and was considered a revolutionary game.

[shy rain]

maybe it shows that the mechanic could have been handled better even if it was overall good

[sacred dirge]

This. We did. It was all love. Multiplayer was a blast too

[shy rain]

Huh, I heard that the duct tape mod got downloads in the hundreds of thousands to millions

[sacred dirge]

Hate occurred more with the release of 2016

[azure oriole]

It did... years after 3 released, though.

[shy rain]

when did it come out anyway? the mod

[azure oriole]

The duct tape mod was made later. 3's perception in the community can be attributed to fans retroactively painting the series as some kind of balls-to-the-wall action-fest with you playing as an invincible badass, and while it partially is this, especially with the modern games, 3 was considered faithful.

In fact, if you go on the Wikipedia page, you'll see some critics who disliked 3 for being too faithful to the original games.

[shy rain]

Just a sidenote, not particularly intended to be related to what I was just talking about, I mean if you're making a different niche game that isn't particularly meant as much to appeal to your core fans as much that's fine although it should probably be clear that it's not for them

otherwise they might pick up the game and not like it

[lapis saddle]

Also Doom 3 lets you kick ass way more than it sometimes feels. Much like Doom 1 actually

[shy rain]

isn't the horror in doom 1 and 2 though while a big part still a secondary aspect?

[sacred dirge]

Nothing stops you from playing 3 fast paced. Only thing holding the player back is the player. As an example my last nightmare run was 4 hours lol

[shy rain]

I hear a lot of people who were fans since the original game and talk about it as a yknow, balls to the wall action fest, just with some scary elements