doom-eternal

[azure oriole]

ill help if you get another player

[glacial aurora]

not sure if im a good choice

[viscid tide]

i mean we just need a player there so we can start battlemode

[violet zealot]

what I do is just wing it and it works lol

[glacial aurora]

never tried it and i need to sort out my buttons

[azure oriole]

try a keybind where you can switch fast and slowly get used to it i suggest

[viscid tide]

i got used to it with q lmao

[vivid parcel]

hello

[verbal bison]

Hello

[keen saffron]

the way do it is just press q whenever i need a weapon

i take my time lol

find the weapon i want and look at the enemies on screen

im still a newbie

managed to complete on easiest difficulty in 14 hours :D

will finish doom 2016 first then go back to eternal

im still very much a noob at doom tho lol

i just go shotgun grenade launcher for the 1shots, d blade if many or tanky, lock on rockets for tanky, but mostly just sticky spam and nade spam

i really dont use the bfg or crucible tho XDD

i love the chaingun shield, great for getting outta tight spots

just nade ur feet and hold chaingun shield when u are cornered

(thats my playstyle at least)

[cloud harness]

What 3 runes would you guys consider to be the best?

[azure oriole]

Hi, guys. Can anyone help me with battlemod trophies (ps4)?

[young mango]

the 3 I use are air control, savagery, and blood fueled

[azure oriole]

Same

[cloud harness]

same as well

[azure oriole]

Best loadout ig

[austere bronze]

You will probably use air control because it's by far the best rune, and savagery is also commonly used because waiting for gloey kill animations is boring, the third rune doesn't matter that much, but the 3 most common are: dazed and confused, equipment fiend and blood fueled

[azure oriole]

I used to rock Chrono Trigger

[austere bronze]

The fact that quick switching makes weak point destruction pretty much obsolete ruins the purpose of chrono strike

But I also used it a while back

[slow chasm]

Heyo can some one send me the link to spicy demons server ? Appreciate it

[azure oriole]

#battlemode

[cloud harness]

I know some people are mixed on doomslayer being this powerful myth/legend in eternal that demons fear while worshipped by people but personally I find it kinda cool and interesting with what they do with him here

[wanton basin]

[slow sigil]

It's a shame people just make up complete lies about his power lol

[stiff shadow]

i never used savavery cuz i don't think the animations are that long except for the cyberdemon glory kills

[austere bronze]

I think they're very long, and on top of that I just want to minimize the time it takes to do one as much as possible

[versed sail]

I prefer the longer glory kills, it gives me a brief respite, they make you unable to take damage for longer and gives a small amount of time for your equipment launcher cooldowns.

[young mango]

unable to take damage for longer with the caveat that you yourself are not dealing damage to anything

[austere bronze]

I'm always on autopilot when playing, meaning I don't need any time to sit still and wait, besides equipment cooldown speed isn't increased when you're performing a glory kill, so that doesn't matter

With a bit more experince, that brief pause isn't needed

[versed sail]

I'm very experienced, infact I'm old and need short breaks haha

[keen saffron]

Haha sames

I have whatever that rune that makes enemies stuck in glory kill for longer

[tame topaz]

I like Savagery, Air Mobility and Equipment Fiend.

[austere bronze]

Hi

[lavish wolf]

Hi people. Been trying to get better at doom eternal. Completed campaign and both parts of dlc on I'm too young to die diff. Now revisiting campaign on hurt me plenty and going strong w even clearing the first slayer gate. Wanted to ask what techniques could I try learning for the beginning?

[patent wedge]

Quickswaping, its a technique that eventually allows your damage output to skyrocket. Search for it on YouTube, typing it out doesn’t explain it well, you have to visualize it

[lavish wolf]

ig I´ve actually seen it somewhere a while ago. It uses previous weapon key to skip cooldown on weapons like supershothgun or balista?

[cloud harness]

Any reason to use the heavy assault rifle over chaingun?

[fringe torrent]

Precision bolt

[patent wedge]

Plenty, the snipe configuration is extremely potent for weak points and dps at a range through quick swaps

[glossy warren]

Precision bolt + any good single shot weapon (i.e. ballista)

[patent wedge]

Micro rockets do more damage then base mini gun but cost slightly more ammo

Also it can headshot enemies easier than chain gun

[austere bronze]

There is 1 reason, and it's a really good reason: quick switching

[tardy pier]

It’s illegal how underrated cultists base ost is

[azure oriole]

@acoustic lark can you ban this weirdo

[verbal wigeon]

Jesus what the f is this

[stark lodge]

Iam pissed off at Doom Eternal I need help

[vale pebble]

<@&162901871168585728> thanks 🙏🏽

[austere bronze]

No, you're just weird as fuck

[young mango]

What point does this even prove

[austere bronze]

Clearly you can see that USA is bad and Russia is good from that perverted GIF

[young mango]

M1 is like Swedish or something you idiot

[azure oriole]

Bruh what is that gif

Bruh

[austere bronze]

It's been way over an hour since the first GIF, how is this guy still here

[vale pebble]

just ping mods block and ignore don't give them attention now, they've done enough damage

[azure oriole]

Okay thats straight messed up ping the mods

[vale pebble]

<@&162901871168585728> pls

[austere bronze]

Already done

[vale pebble]

second ping 😭

[fringe torrent]

Not the fucking rat gif again

[azure oriole]

is that a dead rat or some shit 😭

[vale pebble]

""1 blocked message""

[fringe torrent]

Average community server experience. Good god man

[azure oriole]

average discord experience

[vale pebble]

there are 0 mods appearing online help!!! 😭

[violet zealot]

Man I just fucking woke up what the hell?!

[fringe torrent]

Go back to sleep, everything will be okay

[austere bronze]

Just report the guy, I've reported him 3 times

[violet zealot]

Ok, guys gone apparently

[austere bronze]

Go back to sleep, this was just a nightmare

[fringe torrent]

How would going back to sleep stop a nightmare, shouldn't it be waking up

[young mango]

it seems kind of counteractive to just try to be as volatile as possible with no real reward or benefit outside of personal gratification that you “stuck it to the man” by sending gifs of people or animals engaging in intercourse

[violet zealot]

Yeah, it’s disgustingly weird at best

[austere bronze]

Well of course, it's also disgusting behaviour

[young mango]

like yeah sure, fuck the USA I mean I guess? but what does this have to do with it ??

[azure oriole]

how was that even allowed on gifs though bruh

[fringe torrent]

It's not on Tenor

[buoyant hearth]

E X T E R M I N A T U S

[fringe torrent]

Or Giphy, it was on Imgur or something like that

[azure oriole]

ah

[fringe torrent]

I don't think Imgur moderates stuff unless it's getting reported

[violet zealot]

Whatever. He’s gone now. Y’all can go back to Eternal blabbering (the pun was too funny to me not to use) and I can go back to having to keep myself awake despite me being sick.

[azure oriole]

aight

[violet zealot]

Should I suffer through the SGN ML again later?

[austere bronze]

Yes

[glass trellis]

ok guys i am back and i go to do the Cultist Base mission

[cold wing]

Hello

[glossy warren]

Welcome brother

[quasi moon]

thats underage for discord

<@&162901871168585728>

[cloud harness]

https://tenor.com/view/spin-around-spin-low-tier-god-banned-meme-gif-5036928470605203424

[visual crest]

oh noe

sigh… goobye brether

[real plaza]

Welcome

[real plaza]

what did he send

[visual crest]

he said he was 12

[real plaza]

Ok.

🪑

Bro should have known.

Ahem.

Nvm.

[glass trellis]

ok i get so much fucked i made literally zero progress

[floral ledge]

dude there marauders are the most annoying ass enemies in all of gaming

[fringe torrent]

Nope

[floral ledge]

yes

[azure oriole]

Not even close

[floral ledge]

pin point

[viscid tide]

anybody can help me with a achievement need 2 players

[viscid tide]

not even top 5

marauders are just annoying when theres 2-3

[tacit monolith]

MF DOOM fan???

[fringe torrent]

It's like pretty much impossible to have a way to tell anyway, but Marauders are definitely not there at all

[floral ledge]

yes

[regal walrus]

Doom Eternal™

[marble basalt]

is it normal to login to eternal after the preview to see everything is resetted?

including rank?

[fringe torrent]

If you're on the PC mod preview beta branch, everything being reset is normal

[dry nexus]

Hmm today I will play Nekravol 2 surely nothing will go wrong

[cloud harness]

They can be a pain in the ass but they arent that bad
You just gotta react in time

[marble basalt]

ah ok thank you

[dry nexus]

Ehhh I will say they’re kind of a pace killer for me

[fringe torrent]

Still not the most annoying enemy ever

[dry nexus]

Oh no not by a long shot

I just don’t like that you have to devote basically all of your attention to them and when they get mixed with heavy demons then they start to be an issue

[regal walrus]

Whiplash

[dry nexus]

Lock on rocket mod:

[glass trellis]

How to lower difficulty i don't find it

[vale pebble]

armored DDTs:

[floral ledge]

the snake thingys? they easy

[vale pebble]

lock on burst takes care of them very well lol

[floral ledge]

super shotgun

[glass trellis]

Please anyone

[floral ledge]

settings, game, itll be in the top

[vale pebble]

settings

[glass trellis]

Like press k yet

But i don't see it

[floral ledge]

waht

[glass trellis]

I go to campaign,to my first and only one slot i press k and i don't see it

[floral ledge]

you have to be in the game then you can change

[glass trellis]

Oh thx

[floral ledge]

load your save then go to game setting and you can change it

[glass trellis]

Like load last checkpoint?

I maybe start another campaign on I don't wanna die and after i complete it with DLC (with same diff) i will come back to Hurt me plenty

[floral ledge]

when youre in the main menu

choose contine campaign

then when youre in the game open settings and difficulye

[glass trellis]

Thx

[austere bronze]

Marauders being used sometimes as a way to challenge the player is good

But they are overused

[glass trellis]

One stupid question:
I open the settings with k, yet?

[floral ledge]

holon ill just send a video if capcut will let me compress the file

[glass trellis]

Oh thx so much

[young mango]

8 double marauder encounters in the vanilla game iirc

[real plaza]

only when there are other demons like cyber zombies

[floral ledge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxZ6FJKelbI

cap cut wont let me compresss my stupid video file

[glass trellis]

Thank you very much

[austere bronze]

Yea... too much

[floral ledge]

yes and i hate the wolves they make

[austere bronze]

Because there are people who are challenged by the marauder, so it's good to have it in the game, but it's overused and not a good enemy

Making it more interesting and less buggy could justify all its uses

[real plaza]

would be better if they were four legged supply packs like in the dark lord boss fight

[floral ledge]

ye

[austere bronze]

That would've been stupid

You could've kept the marauder around and shoot him for infinite supplies

[real plaza]

no because then it gives it an actual purpose rather than being hard to hit.

being hard to hit is all there is to it.

[austere bronze]

The purpose is to punish the player for shooting the marauder outside a green eye flash... which was ruined because other demons can trigger the dog

And if you really think it's that hard to hit, just ignore it

[real plaza]

Yes but it's buggy whenever enemies try to shoot you but hit the marauder instead, resulting in the dog spawning.

[austere bronze]

I already mentioned this

[real plaza]

That's the thing you can't ignore it.

[austere bronze]

Spreading misinformation I see

[real plaza]

Unlike casual babies I play on ultra violence.

The dog will literally keep attacking you.

[austere bronze]

I see no difference in a player on ITYTD or even Nightmare

It's just a difference in a few hours

[real plaza]

And difficulty.

[austere bronze]

And refering to people as "casual babies" is rich coming from an Ultra Violence player

[real plaza]

casual babies is people who play on itytd.

[austere bronze]

I used to play on itytd

No shame in that

[real plaza]

It's a decent place to start out

[glass trellis]

What Is itytd

[austere bronze]

Im too young to die

[real plaza]

but if you want to be a boss at the game

you have to start out on a harder difficulty.

[austere bronze]

Lmao, this is so funny reading

@young mango who should tell him😭

[young mango]

huh what did I miss

[real plaza]

well you dont have to.

[austere bronze]

Apparently you have to start on a difficulty harder than ITYTD to be a boss at the game, and anyone playing under UV is a casual baby
(Spolly plays on UV)

[young mango]

elitist while playing a difficulty that’s 50% the damage of nightmare 😛

[austere bronze]

Immediately going back on your statement I see

[glass trellis]

I try to start on Hurt me plenty, i play it for seven hours to unlock Cultist Base and i think i will lower difficulty

[austere bronze]

Ye, play on what is comfortable for you

[real plaza]

I'm just saying it's your choice.

[young mango]

me and M1 both started on ITYTD and out of the people currently talking in this chat, we’re probably 2 of the best

[austere bronze]

But if I want to get good I have to start on something above ITYTD?

[glass trellis]

You are damn good

[real plaza]

Playing on cake difficulty and slowly working your way up makes you learn slow.
But starting out on higher difficulties makes you learn fast.

[subtle mason]

Who is using PC preview

[glass trellis]

That's the sample everyone can be best

[real plaza]

I started out on ITYTD too.

[austere bronze]

Not if it's too hard

[real plaza]

Exactly.

[young mango]

so what’s your point even ??

[austere bronze]

Great question, this guy just keeps going back on statements

[real plaza]

What I mean by people who play ITYTD I mean people who main it.

[dry nexus]

What an elitist lmfao

Nobody thinks you’re cool bro bro

[young mango]

You always main something until you move onto the next thing, that’s how that works yes

[glass trellis]

How hard is the DOOM Eternal in the DOOM franchise?

[dry nexus]

No

[austere bronze]

Doom Eternal is a pretty hard game

[glass trellis]

Oh it's my first DOOM game

[austere bronze]

There was a mod for it, but he have to wait for it to get ported

[dry nexus]

Yeah you have to kind of get into a groove but once you do it it’s fine

[real plaza]

Cacodemon.

[dry nexus]

Meatball demons and I’m not joking in the slightest

[austere bronze]

Pain elementals

[raw plank]

that meatballs with bbq sause

[dry nexus]

Big ups

[austere bronze]

Just wanted to mention something about this, the dog will go after you the same no matter the difficulty and at the same speed, on top of that you can easily avoid it with decent movement

[real plaza]

Yes. Correct.

[glass trellis]

It's my first DOOM game

[austere bronze]

Who eats meatballs with bbq sauce😭

[glass trellis]

That's actually pretty good

[real plaza]

Adds flavor.

[austere bronze]

Sorry, can't allow anyone to commit such crimes

Crime against all swedes

[violet zealot]

Wouldn’t that be the pain elemental, though?

[glass trellis]

I think @floral ledge Is from Sweden

[real plaza]

https://tenor.com/view/buttefly-dog-butterfly-dog-собака-бабочка-gif-3477745535671394965

[austere bronze]

So, what was your point?

[floral ledge]

really now

who couldve guessed

[austere bronze]

Yoo, riktigt based av dig

[glass trellis]

So unpredictable...

[austere bronze]

Du är certifierad M1 based nu

[floral ledge]

nämen tackar tackar

waht

[glass trellis]

Hwat

[austere bronze]

Riktigt gött o träffa en svenne

Now, time for english so the mods don't get mad

[floral ledge]

yep

[glass trellis]

WTH

[real plaza]

You can't just ignore the dog. He's still gonna be in your face, if you don't have the praetor suit where it lessens your dash cooldown, you're basically toasted.

[austere bronze]

Incorrect, you can simply use the meathook and jump pads

...or shoot it, wild, i know

[young mango]

damage from wolf bite on ultra violence ( difficulty you said you played ): 25

You kind of can

[real plaza]

You just told me ignore the dog.

[glass trellis]

Why is praetor suit name praetor

[floral ledge]

sounds like predator

[violet zealot]

cuz it sounds bad ass

[real plaza]

If he's in your face, no. I main ammo upgrades with sentinel crystals. So four bites from the dog = death.

[glass trellis]

I was know what praetor means but i forget it

[raw plank]

idk man

[austere bronze]

I usually avoid it, but sometimes I shoot it if I want to stand still with it close to me

[real plaza]

But now I have extra health upgrades which makes it somewhat easier.

[raw plank]

i see it in recipes all the time

[violet zealot]

@glass trellis how you doing on your Eternal playthrough btw?

[young mango]

Also ignore wasn’t meant to be taken entirely literally, more like the fact that they don’t require much prioritization, they have 100 health, half of what a zombie has, which is the first enemy you ever encounter

[austere bronze]

That's assuming you don't restack and don't have any armor, which is impressive, and even then, taking 4 bites from the dog is wild

[glass trellis]

Today i play it maybe for three hours and i made zero progress i will lower difficulty

[young mango]

could literally sneeze on the thing and it’s no longer an obstacle on the playing field

[austere bronze]

You should have "brunsås" with it

[real plaza]

How was I supposed to know? I'm not a fortune teller last time I checked.

[violet zealot]

You'll get better eventually man

dw

[glass trellis]

I know

[young mango]

this is such a weird response, like you don’t have to know exact damage values to be able to have a good guesstimate, like you could’ve easily realized that the wolf had next to no health just by playing more

[real plaza]

But am I expected to be fully stacked on armor when I randomly run into a marauder?

[austere bronze]

You're expected to have some+restacking exists

[glass trellis]

My biggest problem is three guys with hand cannons in one fight

[young mango]

if you’re going to do examples in a vacuum, I don’t think you should be allowed to add external variables, you stick with it or you don’t do it at all, I could easily make a similar argument like “oh what if I just walked into the marauder fight with 5 health” then yes of course you’d die in one shot

[violet zealot]

the big, tan guys?

[glass trellis]

Tan?

[real plaza]

Yes but he appears randomly in certain encounters.

[austere bronze]

Why are you being bitten by the dog in the first place? I thought you weren't a casual player🤔

[glass trellis]

The fat guys who have hand cannons like its weak points

[real plaza]

Cuz maybe I don't have the praetor upgrade including lesser dash cooldown?

Eternal has priorities.

[violet zealot]

yeah, those guys are called Mancubi btw

[glass trellis]

Yes these guys

[austere bronze]

You do however have a magical tool called meathook, which can move you away

And you can shoot them... which yknow, is super easy

[violet zealot]

they're sorta annoying early game

[austere bronze]

No way

[violet zealot]

yeah, the dogs are not even an issue

[young mango]

saying that faster dash cooldown isn’t a priority leads me to believe you might have some questionable, perhaps even suboptimal decision making

[austere bronze]

Yeah, this too

[glass trellis]

I think it's a third or fourth one fight encounter in Cultist Base and there are three of them at one time

[real plaza]

Yes like the environmental upgrades. They grant ammo and help by removing a tiny fraction of a tiny issue called damage.

[violet zealot]

once you get the super shotgun they become a bit easier as you can just precision bolt their cannons and blast them up close with the super shotgun

[glass trellis]

But i have only four weapons

[violet zealot]

yeah, I know

[austere bronze]

"Tiny fraction"
Bro just found the issue himself

[violet zealot]

I can try to find a good way to deal with them early game if nobody else knows

[real plaza]

We also have freeze bomb too which can gift health drops, and extra damage to frozen enemies.

[austere bronze]

You can use precision bolt to shoot their cannons off, then you can use rocket launcher to deal with them

[violet zealot]

oh yeah, that works quite well

[young mango]

if you stand point blank in a barrels radius, which has been drastically reduced since 2016, knowing full well that it deals damage, do you think that’s the games fault?

[austere bronze]

You're the one complaining you don't have faster dashes... why are you arguing against getting it?

[glass trellis]

I know but there are other demons and i'm so bad when i have to aim and move

[austere bronze]

Faster dashes is the second best preator suit upgrade

[real plaza]

I'm arguing with a reason to not have it. Because like I said, Eternal has priorities.

[real plaza]

Subjective, but okay.

[austere bronze]

Literally not though

[real plaza]

Yes.

Subjective means it depends on the subject.

[young mango]

quick question, what percentile would you consider yourself to fall in regarding doom eternal players skill level?

[austere bronze]

And faster dashes just happen to be high up that list

[glass trellis]

I have question: it's better to play other easier DOOM games to be better and after that play DOOM Eternal?

[real plaza]

People think for themselves too and have their own opinions on what can help them the most.

[austere bronze]

And for everyone, faster dashes are extremely important

[glass trellis]

Cuz DOOM Eternal is my first DOOM game

[midnight sparrow]

No since previous Doom games play very differently from Eternal playing them won’t help

[real plaza]

How many people do you know who play doom eternal and think faster dashes are important?

Millions of people have played eternal.

[glass trellis]

Faster dashes are upgrade for praetor suit?

[austere bronze]

Btw, answer Tammie's question
#doom-eternal message

[glass trellis]

Thx

[floral ledge]

i played doom eternal first of them all

idk

[austere bronze]

Yes

[glass trellis]

Me too

[austere bronze]

If they don't think faster dashes are important.. they're wrong

Which a lot of people are about many things in this game

[austere bronze]

Same here

[real plaza]

Biased.

[young mango]

remove that i 😛

[austere bronze]

From 700+ hours of experience

Haha

Thank you Tammie for bringing light into these dark moments🙏

[glass trellis]

Bro how many hours you have on DOOM Eternal?

[austere bronze]

710

[glass trellis]

HUH

[austere bronze]

Tbf, a lot are spent away from my computer, but I still have actively played like 650 or something

[glass trellis]

HUH

[austere bronze]

Tammie got 1900+ hours ;)

[floral ledge]

i got 38 lol

[glass trellis]

HUUUH

[real plaza]

Oh my.

[glass trellis]

Omfg

[austere bronze]

Is bro starting to regret ever arguing?

[floral ledge]

alright dude what the flip

[glass trellis]

Jesus Christ

[floral ledge]

https://tenor.com/view/okay-dude-what-the-flip-ok-dude-what-the-flip-i'm-gonna-touch-you-imma-touch-you-gif-10167813345254301443

[glass trellis]

I think after that he has all achievements...

[glass trellis]

I have 10 lol

[austere bronze]

You can get all achievements in like 60 hours or something idk

[glass trellis]

ok

And you have all achievements?

[real plaza]

I'm intrigued.

💀

[austere bronze]

No, I haven't played multiplayer which is required for all achievements

I got 28/50

[glass trellis]

Multiplayer like battlemode?

[austere bronze]

Yes

[glass trellis]

Ok

[azure oriole]

Way too high

[austere bronze]

Yea idek what all the achievements are

[glass trellis]

So big part of achievements are from multiplayer?

[austere bronze]

Yes

[glass trellis]

Oh hell nah

[austere bronze]

And then a few from extra life mode

[real plaza]

I gotta eat dinner. @austere bronze we'll continue this later.

[glass trellis]

That's theoretically the easiest one or not?

[azure oriole]

If I had a fresh account and wanted to do em all I could probably do it in like 25 maybe? Rough guesstimate based on when I did it a while back but im fairly certain I wouldn't struggle

[austere bronze]

Oke lol

[real plaza]

Have fun.

[azure oriole]

There's like 5 in multiplayer

[glass trellis]

You have dinner right now i have midnight bro

[austere bronze]

×2 because new player

[real plaza]

Timezones.

[glass trellis]

No shit

[azure oriole]

Fair enough

[austere bronze]

Have a good dinner ig

[real plaza]

Ok.

[glass trellis]

Wait you have midnight too or not?

[austere bronze]

It's 11:51 PM here, so yes, it's midnight here

[glass trellis]

I'm European too

[young mango]

i managed to get 26 achievements in like 5ish hours before because i was doing a challenge or something, kind of lost steam on it after that

[glass trellis]

HUH

[violet zealot]

I'd say that's impressive personally

[glass trellis]

I go sleep i have to wake up at 6:00 so good night @austere bronze and other swedish guys

[austere bronze]

Good night

[austere bronze]

Yea you did that extra life mode speedrun

[young mango]

dude the worst part about it is you basically have to redo another campaign save for one specific achievement and that’s famine mode

all the way in nekravol 😢

but at least I could use skips for a lot of that, probably knock it out hour and a half at least, especially since I’d just be ignoring the final three levels

[austere bronze]

Oh yeah, because no mission select

[violet zealot]

what's famine mode again?

[austere bronze]

I was going to ask why you didn't just use mission select, but then i realised

[austere bronze]

Not 100% sure tbh

[young mango]

cheat code that makes it so enemies don’t drop armor or health, even upon usage of equipment

[violet zealot]

that sounds like absolute pain

[frank drum]

holy shit this gaem is my core

[azure oriole]

Is it just me or does the Khan Maykr look kinda easy

[young mango]

looks? https://youtu.be/9ILw-59CkpY?si=gxYVNJWtwU_im1xe

[azure oriole]

Sorry, is

I haven't fought her yet

[young mango]

yeah but no khan maykr is an easy boss, honestly a glorified plot tool

even if her boss fight was challenging, there’s infinitely respawning maykr drones

trivializing everything she has to offer ontop of it being a very rudimentary process

[glacial aurora]

so im having trouble im playing on ultra violence im having a hard time living doing the first slayer gate i keep running into everything im trying to keep moving but im just running into demons and kinda just kill me

[visual steeple]

What's the issue?

[glacial aurora]

dieing need advice on moving around the arena i guess i cant seem to move around without running into everything getting cought on a wall or just suronded by the big guys

[visual steeple]

You can turn down the difficulty, use your utility (grenades, icebomb, flame belch)

[glacial aurora]

dont have icebomb yet

[visual steeple]

If it's your first time playing you shouldn't get too prideful and not turn down the difficulty when it gets difficult

[glacial aurora]

not my first have beaten the game once

[visual steeple]

Okay I see

blood punch can help

[glacial aurora]

dosnt really solve the issue

[visual steeple]

Do you have the air control rune?

If it's movement air control helps a lot

[glacial aurora]

no

[visual steeple]

There's your issue

[glacial aurora]

that is not the issue regardless of air control im nowhere near a launch pad or anything for it to matter

guess no help then

[visual steeple]

Is this the issue if you not knowing the arena well enough or your movement?

I'm not quite getting it

[azure oriole]

Air control is useful for jumps, double jumps, and dashes that you do. As long as you aren't touching the ground (which you probably shouldn't be most of the time, eternal has a big emphasis on air combat), then air control should be helping you.

[visual steeple]

and air control makes a huge difference in your movement I don't know why you're being dismissive of it.

[azure oriole]

It is easily the best rune in the game, and if you are having trouble difficulty wise, I highly recommend equipping it

[glacial aurora]

dont have it

[azure oriole]

What runes do you got

[glacial aurora]

blood punch health keeps me alive longer for me who will be dieing alot

[azure oriole]

Those are sentinel crystals

[visual steeple]

No that is not

[azure oriole]

wait nvm I thought of something dunb

[visual steeple]

That is a rune giving you health when you blood punch

[azure oriole]

I thought of something else

[azure oriole]

Is that your only one? I don't remember how many runes are in Exuldia(?)

[visual steeple]

There is only 1

[azure oriole]

Ah

I forget how that encounter is

Well then just try moving around the arena as much as possible, use the entire arena as your circle, don't just go back and forth in one place as if it's a basic shooter. Use sticky bombs for groups of fodder (i believe that's mainly what you'd be fighting in that slayer gate), as well as on other enemies, it's a useful tool. Try aiming for the head when possible, sticky bombs do extra damage on headshots. I can't be sure that you have precision bolt, but be sure to use that too if you do, its highly useful, and if you can quick swap it with sticky bombs that encounter should become a lot easier a lot quicker.

[young mango]

I don’t mean to be THAT guy, or the bearer of bad news, but if you are referring to punch and reave, that is possibly the worst rune in the game with not much room for dispute

[glacial aurora]

none of you helping much anyway so expected i guess

[young mango]

?

[visual steeple]

Love that you ignored @azure oriole paragraph detailing what to do

[young mango]

if you’re going to ask for help and then complain about the quality given, then you should just retract your request for help altogether and leave

you are begging and choosing

[azure oriole]

I can help

You gotta git gud

[visual steeple]

I don't want to be an asshole but we've given you tips and tricks and you've been dismissive of it altogether. I don't know what else to say other than play it until you get it.

[young mango]

Yeah like beyond what’s been said, not much more can be provided in the way of short term improvement, reading some words on the screen can’t magically make you better at the game Izanami.

[azure oriole]

I think Izanami might be asking for like literally how to do it, not tips

[visual steeple]

^^^ this is literally how to do it and yet he dismissed it.

[azure oriole]

Fair, I just don't know to be honest.

[visual steeple]

Do you mean how to press wasd and space and move mouse at same time?

THAT literally?

[azure oriole]

Maybe

Okay I'm kidding but I mean like a literal walkthrough of someone doing it so they can copy that exactly, even though that's not entirely possible

[azure oriole]

In that case why wouldnt they go to YouTube instead of asking in a discord server for advice?

I have no idea, I'm not Izanami

[visual steeple]

She could also ask someone to backseat game her

[azure oriole]

That's what I meant, I forgot the term

Sorry for being confusing

[lean lynx]

Chat

Is the Dark Lord’s sword also a crucible?

[modern knoll]

hi,
i'm having an issue in my game where im getting as low as 90fps on low settings, and its weird because i've seen people with my specs, lower or the same, having way better performance on ultra. im at the beginning of the game and i have a 165hz monitor.

1660 super + ryzen 5 7600x + 32gb ram

i had way better performance in doom 2016 with constant 165 fps, even in intensive fights, so im confused

[steady ember]

Is ray tracing turned on?

[modern knoll]

no

[steady ember]

Maybe the frame rate is being capped somewhere

Eternal runs like a dream for me, sometimes better than 2016 so idk what could be causing it

[violet zealot]

I can say the same. Even with RTX on I'm geting over 150 FPS constantly.

[modern knoll]

my framerate is capped at 162 fps in nvidia global settings to help with gsync

[violet zealot]

confused why his frames are tanking

[azure oriole]

One can only assume, I don't recall it ever being explained

[modern knoll]

i would send a video but can't

but its basically drops hard to the 50s or so

im not sure why

[eternal halo]

vsync?

[modern knoll]

no, its off

[eternal halo]

have you checked your bg processes?

[modern knoll]

it doesnt really seem like anything is taking up anything

just doom eternal and other apps

[eternal halo]

how much ram consumption do you have while playing? open task manager and check if you can rn

[modern knoll]

let me get ingame

[modern knoll]

4gb

[eternal halo]

while actively playing?

[modern knoll]

yes

[eternal halo]

hm

is ur monitor 1080p or higher?

[modern knoll]

1080p

1440p would be useless for 1660 super lol

[eternal halo]

indeed

yea ur not bottlenecked either idk whats wrong man. try heading to reddit or other forums for help, include a vid, maybe they can help. srry i couldnt help more

[modern knoll]

ah thats ok, thanks for your help

[eternal halo]

np man

[eternal halo]

worse than savagery, which literally doesnt do anything but make gk's faster?

[young mango]

yes

[eternal halo]

may i ask why?

[frank drum]

sometimes I wonder if I'll ever be able to play this game without some random dammed stupid softlock

this game is so goddamn broken dude

[azure oriole]

Welcome to Eternal.

[young mango]

because, an unupgraded blood punch provides 200 splash damage, and an upgraded one, 400 damage, and this runes entire focal point is getting the benefits from splash killings that you’d get from direct killings, meaning up until the end of doom hunter base, you are entirely banking on the possibility a zombie/imp will be in the splash radius, which may or may not have an amount of fall off which could contribute to that not being a factor either, and the upgrade in DHB is super negligible at that, not even enough to where a shield soldier or mecha zombie could die to the splash, and theoretically you could coordinate it more to try to get more bang for your buck, but at that point you could actually have advanced enough thought processes to have formed better restacking strategies in general

[umbral portal]

guys, when swapping guns, to fast-swapp weapons, the animations have an absurdly long delay or can it be my keyboard, to properly fast-swap from PB, rocket, ballista i need to press the rocket key at the exact same time i shot the PB and before the rocket is fully out i need to press the ballista, is absurdly delayed. is this how the game usualy works?

[frank drum]

well no

[umbral portal]

i have a ps2 keyboard wich is supposed to have a lower latency than usb

[frank drum]

well if you no have delay pressing other buttons then is the game

[azure oriole]

....why are you running a keyboard from before 2005...

[umbral portal]

mecanical kb was failing, and i had a buch of ps2 keyboards lying arround

[young mango]

a mechanic requiring you to intentionally utilize splash damage for benefits is one that would be needlessly complicated if actually utilized to the extent it’s capable of, but a negligible reward for those who do it on accident

[eternal halo]

do you have hot swapper suit upgrade?

[eternal halo]

tbh i never rlly found a difference with and without punch and reave so makes sense that its trash. swapped it out to try other runes and didnt rlly find a difference

[eternal halo]

if you dont thats the problem

[worldly fable]

playing doomer ternal

[umbral portal]

i completed the base campaign and im practicing with all maxed out, but its slow for nightmare difficulty, and i cant achieve the "common" hotswap usualy find in speedruns (also skill issue)

[worldly fable]

fun game

[eternal halo]

huh, have you tried plugging in a different keyboard and seeing if you have the same problem with that one?

[frank drum]

funny because actually my first rune was punch and reave

[worldly fable]

mfw windows key not working when playing a game

i dont have an fn key ☹️

What the hell i just ticked on scroll lock and it worked Ok.

[eternal halo]

yea that happens with me too.

[modern knoll]

fixed it! i just tinkered with my settings a little following a reddit guide, reset my bios settings and turned on XMP, and moved the game to my main drive. smooth 120 fps!

[frank drum]

love how this game pushes you to be aware of your surroundings, follow the monkey bars flow feels so good

i love exultia battle after the 3 big doors, was the first time i felt the game

[eternal halo]

nice man!

[fathom girder]

@azure oriole how strong is the doom slayer lore wise actually. Because i dont want to believe youtube Videos too much since they love to exaggerate a lot.

[azure oriole]

He's a superhuman with a very advanced suit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Doom/comments/108bc41/the_modern_doom_fanbase_has_misunderstood_the/
I made a post here discussing it. The TLDR: The Slayer's strength is heavily over exaggerated by fans. He's a very strong, very determined superhuman with a presumably infinite lifespan. That's it. He isn't a God or whatever, he can't run at light speed, he can't punch Titans to death.

[full wagon]

a friend and i @supple mist had a talk once about, if samuel was the dark lord (pre tag2) and aside from a (decently sized) hole in one argument - it was solid

i also find it weird that “Doctor Samuel Hayden” is 6 6 6

numerology, finding meaning in the numbers that isn’t there? or… intent

[azure oriole]

I'm not quite sure about him literally being the Dark Lord, but I do think Hayden was likely intended to have a more villainous role than he ended up getting. That whole whispering tree thing in 2016 was a big part of that IIRC.
Maybe he will still end up doing this someday.

And also 2016's cliffhanger does not lead into Eternal's story at all lmao

That cliffhanger is blatantly meant to make you think you're gonna have to kick this guy's ass before he starts more bullshit. Not "actually he was right to do this and it helped him fight Hell for 13 years before he helped you as an AI in your pad."

[fathom girder]

Ah okay. So he isnt an omnipotent dude with nothing that can hurt him.

[azure oriole]

Not at all. The Slayer you play as in the games is roughly the Slayer in the lore. i.e. if you can die to a stray Baron fireball in the gameplay, this is something the "real" Slayer could hypothetically die to.

[fathom girder]

Because i generally heard a lot of fucking bullocks. Feats. Where i had to go and turn to an doom lore expert and Double check this.

[full wagon]

yeah he led the ARC and everything. had the crucible in hand

oh yea even pre TAG, which it was more of a “what if” than “he really is” truth. fun speculation

didn’t hugo say the whispering tree thing isn’t factored in now

[visual topaz]

This is seeming to ignore the fact that he had a piece of a god infused into him. This put him on practically even footing with Davoth, a former creator deity. The only thing that seems to be any different between Davoth and the Slayer is that Davoth used to have the power to create on a whim. Beyond that, there is no statement or implication that Davoth had any less physical strength after the removal of his creative abilities. We have no reason to assume that Davoth was any stronger prior to his dethroning. If this is taken at face value, the Slayer matches and exceeds the power of a god, until this element is removed from him by Davoth's death.

[azure oriole]

Davoth literally says his power was stolen from him; even without this line of dialogue, it is self-evident that Davoth lacks his powers by the objective fact that he required a mech to fight the Slayer, and then gave up as soon as it stopped functioning correctly.

[visual topaz]

This may be true, but the power he is talking about, and the power that is explicitly taken from him was his ability to create. That's all.

[azure oriole]

His "ability to create" was making really good robots.

[visual topaz]

No, he created literally everything. He was God.

[cloud harness]

Would it be right to say that while the slayer is not some invincible god, he is a very strong being going up against other strong beings that outnumber him greatly?

[azure oriole]

Davoth created the Maykrs. It is not explicitly stated that he created reality itself. In fact the story fails to provide reasoning that he could have done this, and seems to still provide the Luminarium as the proper reason as to reality's existence.

Even without those lines of dialogue your logic is flawed and assuming that a "power level" is objectively, across-the-board decided by if you can defeat someone with "more power" than you. That's not how this works at all.

Should I break out the Dwayne Johnson argument again? I like that one.

[fathom girder]

Quite litreally. The only thing i guess that bounds the slayer from beating a god is his mortal bodys limits.

[visual topaz]

"As all things were made by my hand, so shall they be unmade."

It's right there.

[azure oriole]

All things would be made by his hand regardless of his statement, as the Father was made by his hand, and if the Father created reality, Davoth would, in his Godly narcissism, claim it to be his own.

The story also says Doomguy came by Davoth's hand, and this is literally false; Doomguy was born long after Davoth was sealed away.

[visual topaz]

But the Father had to steal power from Davoth. Why would he need to do that if the FAther already created everything on his own?

[fathom girder]

Oh. And what about that sun feat i heard about? Like the thing he used to resurrect Satan? Some kind of sun looking ball. Someone said that it weighed 1 million Suns or something(i dont know if its true. Just asking)

[visual topaz]

You're assuming a roundabout indirect thinking here when I'm fairly certain ID intended Davoth's reveal to upend everything we knew up to that point. It's pretty black and white.

[azure oriole]

1. I do not believe the Father stole power from Davoth for his own usage. The lore implies the Father was always stronger than Davoth. He stole Davoth's power so he couldn't pose a direct threat anymore.
2. I do not believe the Father created everything on his own. The Luminarium provides a perfectly sensible reason for this. Reality was created via divine machinery engineered by Davoth, perfected by the Father - not magic.

[visual topaz]

And him saying that the slayer was made by his hand is accurate as he literally created the universe and everything in it. A god refers to the living beings under him as his creations.

[full wagon]

tag1 was supposed to be “hey oops we faked it” after tag2 came out. like a false writing, a lie. propaganda

[azure oriole]

This is exactly the same logic I just used lol. It's still indirect.

Either Davoth created reality which made humans which made Doomguy's parents which made him, or Davoth created Maykrs which created reality which made humans which made Doomguy's parents which made him.

[visual topaz]

Davoth created the maykrs and Urdak after he created Hell.

[azure oriole]

Either way the mechanics are indirect, and thus "by my hand" is not a confirmation that Davoth did it himself.

[azure oriole]

There is no confirmation that Davoth created Hell.

All that is said is that Davoth was the first being in Jekkad. Nothing is said as to if he created it, or if he was merely placed within it.

I believe the latter, given Hugo's comments that Davoth had an intelligent creator (the Mysterious Voice).

[azure oriole]

As far as I know nothing says that latter thing unless there's some flavor text in the ARC Carrier I'm missing.

[azure oriole]

Back to the original argument, I pose a question: Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson challenges me to an arm-wrestling contest. I accept, and when we meet for our contest, I take out a Glock and shoot him 4 times in the head, killing him instantly.
Did I just defeat The Rock in a fight? Did I just prove myself to be stronger than him because I beat him?

Did I just secure my place on some power-based hierarchy as a "higher being" than The Rock, even though my upper body strength is shit?

This logic of defining power via "feats" is bunk. The fact that the Slayer defeated Davoth does not confirm him to be stronger than Davoth, just like him beating the Icon of Sin doesn't mean he's stronger than it. It isn't that simple.

[fathom girder]

The thing is though. Doom slayer launched himself across Orbit and i dont know what kind of speed that was but it seemed litreally instant. So im not an expert at physics. But his biceps being out in the open and at such an speed would mean he has Theoretically, if a human body were moving at 38,146 mph and all the kinetic energy were converted into heat, it would generate around 711 million Joules of heat. This amount of heat would be catastrophic, leading to complete disintegration due to extreme temperatures far exceeding human tolerance.(this was done by chatgpt 4 for the math. Since the minimum. Speed of instant looking to the human eye is 38,146 mph)

[azure oriole]

There's not much point in this kind of hypothetical. Doom's universe doesn't work the way ours does. The Slayer hypothetically dies to an Imp fireball but can survive being launched through a concrete wall in space. He's a "demigod" - a bona-fide Primeval, wearing a very advanced suit that can cushion impact for him.

You can presume that part of the lethality of demon attacks is that their blood flows with Argent Energy, a potent compound that also powers the suit itself. Concrete in a UAC base doesn't have that shit in it.

[quaint root]

Goodnight everyone

Except game journalists

They always complain about DOOM Eternal

[fathom girder]

So physics doesent function the same there?

I guess thar would make sense.

[azure oriole]

If physics functioned the same, you wouldn't have a functional videogame that meets the design philosophy of Doom.

You can only go so far when theorycrafting videogames like this.

[visual topaz]

I'm just full stop not believing any of this realated to Davoth. The UAC in the TAG 2 logs state the Makyrs rewrote history to remove Davoth from it. We know they usurped him. It is completely safe to assume that they inserted themselves in Davoth's place in their creation history and reduced Davoth's role to a steward of Jekkad. The writing from Davoth's perspective is straight foreward, and if we assume that what the Father said in that Davoth is effectively the slayer of hell's world then we have no reason to assume that Davoth doesn't think in the same terms of the Slayer, which is to say, completely straight foreward. So while yes it's broad to say that he views all life as his creations, it's just true in how gods percieve the realities they greate. That's how it is in real cultures. As an example in Christianity, humanity is god's creation. When he says All things were made by his hand, there is absolutely no reason not to believe him, and it is clearly what ID intended as obvious bold faced truth. It's frankly absurd to debate otherwise just to diminish the power the slayer has.

[quaint root]

But like Doom Slayer doesn't canonically die, we die, the player not him.

[fathom girder]

I mean. There are a lot of games out there which played characters are much stronger lore wise then gameplay wise. So why is that any diffrent for doom slayer? (God i feel like an Journalist. But im curious)

[azure oriole]

You are assuming ID's intentions to fit your own belief. I'm interpreting the words themselves.

[visual topaz]

I'm simply not.

If anyone is doing that you are.

[azure oriole]

it is clearly what ID intended

Says who? You?

I don't give a shit what id Software intended. I care what the story itself says.

[visual topaz]

The story itself is what ID intended!

What are you saying?

Otherwise why would they write the damn thing?

[azure oriole]

id Software clearly intended a lot that didn't end up coming into fruition. They originally intended Davoth to become a dragon during the boss fight, does this mean he can canonically do that? No. There's no evidence in Doom to state this.

They originally intended for the Nekravol Citadel to be the Tower of Babel. Does that mean it is? No. It didn't end up happening.

[fathom girder]

Has there been any devs actually confronting or confirming that doom slayer is as strong as the fandom makes him out to be?

[quaint root]

Ok

I don't get what this entire argument is about

[visual topaz]

This is not a reason to assume that they didn't mean what they wrote and what is clearly and obviously presented to the audience.

[fathom girder]

I think this is more of an debate which is slowly turning into an Argument.

[signal willow]

Some one here has all the archievements in doom eternal?

[visual topaz]

God I wish a writer from ID was here to confirm this crap. This is one of the most nuts conversations I've ever had.

[signal willow]

But the ones in the game

[quaint root]

Nah sadly no

[signal willow]

All the 133

[azure oriole]

So you say there's no reason to assume that they didn't mean Davoth's power was stolen from him when he said "my power was stolen from me?"

[signal willow]

I have 108

[quaint root]

I think I have around 70+

I think. I don't know exactly.

[azure oriole]

What about when they showed you Davoth needed a mech to fight the Slayer, got his ass kicked, and then gave up as soon as the mech stopped working? Do you agree that id Software knew what they were doing when they put this into the story?

[quaint root]

Nah davoth just accepted his fate because he knew he would lose anyway.

[signal willow]

I need to know what are the achievements of the dlc

[fathom girder]

Didnt davoth when he was naked tank an shot from doom slayer?

And it didnt even scratch him.

[azure oriole]

No, the shot dissipated - presumably because of the Luminarium.

[quaint root]

"no blood can be spilled in this holy place"

Meaning: that no blood can be spilled in that holy place

[azure oriole]

The basic existence of Davoth as he exists in TAG2 debunks this shit. None of TAG2's story fundamentally works if you try to insert the reasoning that he's actually super epic and ultimately powerful and can do anything with the snap of his finger because he's God.
Why does he need a mech to fight the Slayer? Why does he give up as soon as it starts smoking? Why does he require the aid of demons in Immora to begin with, if he's basically God and has the powers of one?

[quaint root]

Mind blowing right?🤯🤯🤯🤯

[azure oriole]

Here's an even better question: If Davoth was all-powerful and could create and unmake reality on a whim, how did the Father beat him in a fight?

[quaint root]

Cuz The Father is built different

Literally

[visual topaz]

He doesn't. The MAkyrs took that ability from him. HE cant just do whateevre he wants on a whim anymore. All he is left with are the exact same McFuckin powers that the slayer has, which is immense strength and speed.

[azure oriole]

Because that still happened, that isn't just myth the Maykrs made up. The Father and Davoth fought in Jekkad - Davoth got his ass kicked by a robot he built. That is not all-powerful, and it is not something that happens to a God that can create and un-create reality on a whim.

[visual topaz]

It's a miror match for this thematic reason.

[azure oriole]

Except he literally never uses any of this ever.

[visual topaz]

He uses it int he final fight!!!

[fathom girder]

I am enjoying this debate.

[azure oriole]

No. He uses a mech.

[quaint root]

Cuz he's a fucking coward

[azure oriole]

He never uses any of this in TAG2. At all. He needs a mech to compensate for the power-drain, and gives up when it starts to stop functioning. He literally raises a sword to the Slayer and then drops it because just the mech being hurt this bad has hurt him, much less any actual direct hits to his body.

[fathom girder]

He did bleed.

[visual topaz]

Well as Hugo said in one of his streams. It's your game. Interpret it how you like.

[quaint root]

Honestly, Batman with prep time could defeat Davoth

[azure oriole]

Well, I mean, it's literally what happens in the game lol.

That's like saying it's "interpretation" to say that Doomguy uses a shotgun. Man, it's right there.

Like it happens right in front of you, it's the climax to the story.

[visual topaz]

Yeah so does Davoth saying he created everything . It's right fuckin there.

[quaint root]

Did he tho?

[azure oriole]

Even if we take this at face value it does not impact the base argument I'm making that Davoth is functionally a normal human during TAG2, and the Slayer beating him is a complete non-argument as to determining how "powerful" he is.

[fathom girder]

But to be fair. Letting an sword fall to the ground is a sign of accepting defeat. Mostly because someone acknowledges the others strentgh and gives up knowing they cant win no matter what. But he did cough blood which could be a reason.

[visual topaz]

You can go therough five hundred thousand hoopos and say that it was this throughline where he's taking credit for the makyrs, or you can take it at face value. Eitehr is possible, but only one is probably true, and it's most likely the obvious interpretation, given the significance of the indevidual and the scale involved here.

[azure oriole]

Regardless of if Davoth waved his hand to make reality or not, in TAG2 he has lost his power. We are not fighting Davoth at his peak, we are fighting a fallen god who is a shadow of his former self. He's not even the most powerful foe we face in Doom Eternal. TAG2 Davoth is functionally a human, riding a mech.

The Slayer beating the Icon would be a much more apt argument to make regarding this discussion. The Icon is far more powerful in a fight than any of TAG's bosses.

[quaint root]

@azure oriole who was the demon that spoke in the slayer testament things from 2016?

[visual topaz]

The Dark Lord.

[azure oriole]

According to Hugo, it's Davoth.

(It's a lame answer. I don't like it.)

[fathom girder]

Is it true that the doom slayer grows stronger the more he kills?

[azure oriole]

Until Hugo said this, I assumed it was the Aranea Imperatrix, and far preferred this outcome as it lent some decent characterization to the main antagonist.

[visual topaz]

He said consistently that that voice is the remnant of Davoth's conciousness, which is said to continue to influence the demons, and the rage felt by him transformed Jekkad from its former state into Hell.

[quaint root]

Umm ok and?

[azure oriole]

That statement's up to interpretation. I don't really believe it's that simple.

[azure oriole]

The meaning of that message is self-evident. Look at it again if it confuses you.

[visual topaz]

What is states is that he draws strength from his fallen foes. This is just a lore explanation for the resource mechanics.

[quaint root]

No

Yesn't?

Idk

[visual topaz]

Which is actually a power Davoth retains.

In the final fight with him if Davoth hits you he heals from you.

[azure oriole]

In regards to the lore I believe it's simply that killing demons lets the Praetor Suit siphon Argent from them, rejuvenating his stamina and allowing him to keep going when he attacks demons. I don't think it's something the Slayer can just do as part of his body.

[visual topaz]

So that's something the Slayer got from the piece of Davoth that was fused to him.

[azure oriole]

The Suit's doing a lot of heavy lifting with the Slayer.

[fathom girder]

I mean the most popular Statements in the community is that doom slayer grows stronger the more he is angry. And that he is a someone living off his rage and hatred.

[azure oriole]

Yeah that's not really it. It's just flowery demon language.

The Slayer has an infinite lifespan, he's very persistent, and the suit lets him keep on going.

[visual topaz]

It's very fitting that Davoth can draw that strength from the slayer just as the slayer can from his own enemies. Shows the connection between the two and how the slayer was infused with a piece of him.

[azure oriole]

I agree this is a cool connection between them but I don't think this is a part of Davoth himself as much as it is the mech.

[quaint root]

Goodnight to everyone except for
Game Journalists, people who can't fight a marauder properly and then cry about it, and lastly people who can't play doom eternal properly at all and then cry about it to the internet instead of learning how to actually play the game.

[azure oriole]

Even if it is a part of Davoth, though, it only goes to show who the top dog is during TAG2 - Davoth's mechanics are a shadow of the Slayer's, a mimicry he can only attain in a fight with the help of a big fancy mech.

[visual topaz]

Well considering that we know that the Divinity Machine was made with a remnant of Davoth himself, and that we know that by reversing the polarity of the machine Samur fused it with the Slayer I'd say it's pretty likely.

[azure oriole]

This is only assuming the ability to draw strength from his foes is an ability of the Slayer's. I don't believe this is innate to him, I believe it is a function of the Praetor Suit.

[visual topaz]

Well it certainly wasn't something he could do before the divinity machine exposure.

[azure oriole]

Well, yes. He never got the Praetor Suit until after he was put in the Divinity Machine.

This particular thing is pretty vague. You could reach either conclusion.

[visual topaz]

Hold up I just remembered, the Father tells the slayer that by Davoth's hand all things were made. that is the Father outright admitting Davoth was the true creator.

He says it after the Slayer kills him and as he's passing out.

[azure oriole]

Well, yes, but he also says that you were made by his hand, and Doomguy was not - he was born naturally.

[devout atlas]

Wait was the praetor suit made during his time in the hells?

[azure oriole]

Yes, but as per TDA he used a similar suit beforehand.

[devout atlas]

The sentinel suit yes?

[visual topaz]

Yeah in a reality Davoth created. And as well when he orchestrated the creation of the Slayer through influencing the Makyrs.

[devout atlas]

Because I just completed the first campaign and I saw that he had the origin doom marine suit BEFORE he was accepted as a sentinel

[azure oriole]

Yeah but in both scenarios it's indirect, i.e. not made by his hand.

"Made by his hand" is less used as a literal statement and more as a general thing to mean "Davoth's actions set the existence of this object into motion."

[visual topaz]

The Slayer was also fused with a part of Davoth, so when Davoth died that par t was removed from his being, which leads to him passing out.

[azure oriole]

So if reality were still made via the Luminarium, it would still have been by "Davoth's hand," as the Luminarium only exists thanks to him.

[visual topaz]

Even if you assume this, and if we pretend this is ture, this is not how the Malkyrs describe reality coming into being. The Fathe, in reality DAvoth, flew through the void creating everything as he went. Life just spring up aroud him, and then Urdak was made.

But we know Davoth created Urdak and the Makyrs. There was no Luminarium to make anything with.

[azure oriole]

They're robots. You don't need a Luminarium for them - you build 'em.

[visual topaz]

The Luminarium is a product of the Makyrs, but everything already existed before the Makyrs did.

[azure oriole]

The point is that Davoth built these machines to ponder a question he wasn't smart enough to do himself, and the machines grew too big a head and betrayed him when they deemed him to be a threat to reality.

[visual topaz]

I'm sorry back up, did you just say the Makyrs are robots?

[azure oriole]

The Maykrs are, in their natural state, robots.

The existence of flesh on their bodies is not natural - it's a symptom of Transfiguration.

This is shown in TAG and elaborated on further by Hugo. The corrupted Transfiguration process turns Maykrs from heavenly machines into flesh-and-blood creatures, with flesh-brains that cannot properly hold the mind of a Maykr within it. This drives them insane, and takes away their natural life/death cycle the Transfiguration is supposed to provide.

Yeah.

[visual topaz]

When did he say this?

[azure oriole]

IIRC Hugo specifically talks about this in a lore interview with Tyler McVicker, but I may be mistaken.

[fathom girder]

By the way with what did doom slayer kill the titan if not with his bare hands?.

[visual topaz]

We don't know yet

[azure oriole]

Yeah, we don't know.

Could've been like in Eternal. Could've used an Atlan.

[fathom girder]

So wait. Didnt he kill it with that blade? It was stuck in the dead body.

[azure oriole]

Anyway the point is, the timeline suggests that the creation of the Earthly Realms came after the creation of the Maykrs. And IIRC Hugo also claimed, in a statement regarding Urdak's appearance in a livestream, that the Maykrs made Urdak rather than Davoth.

They built Urdak, and then Urdak split apart and turned into a wasteland as the Maykrs became more corrupt.

The creation of the Luminarium predates the Earthly Realms.

[azure oriole]

Oh, you mean the Dreadnought. Yeah, he used his Crucible.

[visual topaz]

Yeah Davoth only made the Makyrs. Then they made their realm. But based on their rewriting of history, and the fact thei iunserted themselves into Davoth's rule, the earthly realms came first.

[azure oriole]

Nothing says this. The TAG2 lore says almost nothing about this part of the timeline.

[visual topaz]

TAG 1 lore states everything was made and then Urdak was made.

But that lore is wrong because we know the Makyrs hid the existence of Davoth as the creator.

[fathom girder]

Wait. So the titan and that body are not the same?

[visual topaz]

The TAG 2 files outright say they rewrote their own history.

[azure oriole]

There are several Titans. The Dreadnought is one of them.

[fathom girder]

Wait. Isnt the next game about the past timeline of the doomslayer?

[visual topaz]

The Dreadnought attacked Taras Nabad. The Titan refered to in 2016 lore is a large demon fought by the slayer after he was stranded in hell by the Deag.

[azure oriole]

Yeah, so you can't really take this into account. This is what I mean. Davoth is presented as a flesh-and-blood individual; the Maykrs were built, and they apparently built their own realm. Davoth wasn't even powerful enough to make his own people immortal - he had to make machines that could stand the test of time.

[fathom girder]

Because there is an scene in the Trailer where he fights one of those things that looks very very similar to that titan but he uses an mech.

[azure oriole]

Lots of the Book of Seraphs may be lies, but the Luminarium is fact. We see it, we witness its power; the Book says that under the Luminarium, "the quantum engines of creation stir." And we see this process used to revive Davoth.

[visual topaz]

So why is it the only thing capable of reviving the Father as well?

[azure oriole]

?

[visual topaz]

Tae Luminarium is the only thing that can return the Father to physical form. Which he wanted.

[azure oriole]

Yes.

[visual topaz]

So if the Luminarium is such a be all end all, why is it in Urdak, and who built it?

Cause it's clearly of Makyr design.

[azure oriole]

I'm saying the Father and the Seraphs built it. It's in Urdak because it's theirs.

[visual topaz]

So the Makyrs are the creators of everything?

[azure oriole]

Eh, not everything. I personally believe the Father and Seraphs are still responsible for the creation of the Earthly Realms, though, yes.

[visual topaz]

But the Father said Davoth was the creator of everything. And the lore implies that the earthly realms came before Urdak but after Jekkad. And the lore says that Jekkad was the first and oldest realm.

[azure oriole]

Since Davoth made the Father who made the Earthly Realms, Davoth can still be credited with their creation.

[visual topaz]

Nope.

[azure oriole]

And yeah, I think Jekkad still predates all this.

[visual topaz]

I just flatly disagree with that.

[azure oriole]

Then by your logic, Davoth can't be credited with the creation of Doomguy. Two people made Doomguy, not Davoth.

[visual topaz]

They made him under his influence. He manipulated them into it.

[azure oriole]

"But the Divinity Machine-" the Seraphim put him in there, and the Maykrs constructed it. Davoth was only a piece of it.

[azure oriole]

Davoth manipulated two humans to fuck and create Doomguy?

[visual topaz]

No he manipulated the Khan Makyr and the Seraphim into empowering the slayer with a piece of Davoth's being. And if you want go further back, Davoth created everything and then two people fucked and made him. This ultimately makes Davoth the creator of the Doom Guy.

[azure oriole]

Indirectly.

Both of our arguments only work if you believe that "by his hand" can be used to mean "indirectly." The logic you use to say my argument doesn't work also debunks your own. Either way Davoth did not create Doomguy. Doomguy was a naturally-born human who was eventually turned into the Slayer by the actions of two different machines, both of whom were mentally influenced by Davoth.

Indirectly. Not "by his hand."

[desert scroll]

Bro the triumphant milestone is so time consuming!!!!!

[azure oriole]

Yes, he created the Slayer - indirectly. Not by his hand, but by the hands of others, who were guided by him.

[visual topaz]

They were Directly influenced by Davoth because of his direct manipulations. A god can create a universe, let it run on its own accord and fuck of and do whatever else it wants.

[azure oriole]

And I believe he also created the Earthly Realms - indirectly. Not by his hand, but by the hands of machines, who were influenced by his actions.

[azure oriole]

The creation was still indirect.

[desert scroll]

Bro tf is happening?

[visual topaz]

The creation of the whole ass universe was VERY direct! He flew through the fuckin void and life sprouted up around him.

[azure oriole]

The creation of the Doom Slayer was objectively indirect.

Davoth used indirect methods to create Doomguy. It objectively was not "by his hand," therefore the statement of "by his hand" is more metaphorical than literal.

[desert scroll]

Have you ever taken astronomy

[azure oriole]

Therefore "by his hand" cannot be used as a confirmation that Davoth did this directly.

[visual topaz]

It can though.

[azure oriole]

Well we outright see them use it in a statement that cannot be used as a confirmation of this lol.

[desert scroll]

Earth and people were created by a bunch of mumbo jumbo not devoth but then there’s different dimensions and the demons

[azure oriole]

The Father outright says that the Slayer was made by his hand. And we know for a fact that the Slayer was indirectly created by Davoth.

[visual topaz]

The father says by his hand all things were made. HE made the universe, and then the universe existed for millions of eons. This makes him the direct creator of the universe and the indirect creator of everything that followed. Then he directly made the Slayer what he was.

[desert scroll]

Bruh

[compact temple]

Doom lore moment

[desert scroll]

Literally

[azure oriole]

Brother. He says "By his hand, all things were made - even you."
The Slayer was objectively not made by Davoth's hand. They literally tell us this.

[visual topaz]

Just as he then directly made the makyrs, they then directly pulled a bunch of his power out of his chest then he directly tumbled off a temple and dies.

[fathom girder]

Meaning he still created him though. Indirect or not. It still was because of that persons influence. Just because something is indirect doesent mean its not true at all. Atleast thats my take on it.

[azure oriole]

He was made via manipulation of third parties.

Davoth set a course of events into action which reached the conclusion he wanted. That's like his thing. He does this.

[desert scroll]

Bro this whole argument screams ☝️🤓

[fathom girder]

Shhh. Im enjoying this. Let them have theyre moment. This is so hype for me right now because im learning more about doom lore then in the game.

[desert scroll]

Ever tried reading the codex

[azure oriole]

has anybody made anything cool with doom eternal mod support yet?

[visual topaz]

So this in your view does not make him a creator of everything.

[azure oriole]

There is practically no difference between this or the hypothetical that the Luminarium made the Earthly Realms. Both actions were a net benefit for Davoth's plans, both were indirectly set into action by his machinations.

[desert scroll]

Is that Jesus?

He probably knows what’s up

[azure oriole]

ye boi

[somber rain]

Hello Jesus Christ

[azure oriole]

Indirectly I'd consider him a creator, sure, but I don't really think seeing him as primarily this God figure is even the right way to go about things. Davoth has a creator - God does not. Plenty of characters in Doom pride themselves as Gods, the whole point is that they usually are not and are just narcissistic. The Khan Maykr and the Father are both examples of this.

Idk much about Doom Eternal lore honestly just like souls games im just like thats cool but dont understand much of it

Davoth is much more of an Adam figure. The proto-human. He's a progenitor of life. "The first man." His actions set into action everything else, but no, I don't think he just waved his hand and made realities. I don't really think there's much to support this that isn't written by already unreliable text written by liars.

[fathom girder]

Yeah. This is still better. As they break it down more and faster.

[desert scroll]

The khan maykr, saraphym, father, and devoth are selfish and ultimately wants and needs argenta and power to themselves including humans (UAC) so that’s pretty much it actually

[somber rain]

https://tenor.com/view/lore-crazy-lore-benjammins-lore-unlocked-history-gif-15737389162789326896

[compact temple]

Doom lore: everyone is a bad guy

[azure oriole]

Yeah i do basically understand it i guess just not that much

The timeline I'm saying is this:

1. Davoth exists in Jekkad. He either created it or was born in it.
2. Civilization thrives but Davoth wants his people to be immortal.
3. He builds the Father and the Maykrs and tasks them with making the people of Jekkad immortal.
4. They build their own home, Urdak, and then set themselves on this task.
5. They succeed, but they decide Davoth is not worthy of this information as he's gone insane and has become a threat to reality.
6. The Father seals Jekkad away from the rest of reality, trapping Davoth.
7. He then creates the Earthly Realms using the Luminarium.
8. Davoth begins invading the Earthly Realms from Hell.
9. The Father responds by going into Hell, kicking Davoth's ass, and turning him into a Life Sphere.

bruh how do you type so damn fast

[fathom girder]

Its truly a pity that we dont have an dev to confirm shit here.

[azure oriole]

I disagree. I don't like dev confirmations, and already have a bad taste in my mouth citing Hugo's statements.

[compact temple]

Ngl tag2’s lore could’ve been better explained

[azure oriole]

I don't really like authorial intent, and prefer to interpret the story as it stands on its own.

how excited are you guys for the dark ages?

[desert scroll]

Bros on standby, he the Father

[azure oriole]

fr

[visual topaz]

This is where you and I diverge fundementally I think. The authors created the world. They know it better than anybody. At that point it's a matter of acceptance. I would love if a dev came in here ancd confirmed one way or the other. CAsue they made the thing. THey know what they made, and what is true at the end of the day.

[desert scroll]

I’m so excited to see the new “Double Barrel Lever Action Super Shotgun”

[fathom girder]

Yeah but then shit atleast gets settled with all due respect this isnt about what we like or hate. Shit has to get settled. Thats how life is. Its either something good. Or shit.

[somber rain]

What if doom slayer didn't backup Vega? 👀

[visual topaz]

I have a giant fictional world that I made and fleshed out. I know it better than anyone. If i put it out into the world and they just decided I don't actually know that I made and what I wrote, they are full stop wrong.

[compact temple]

Why did Davoth need the maykrs to find immortality? Could he not have done it himself?

[azure oriole]

Here's what I think: What would you do if you were born 100 years later, interpreting this story, and you didn't have Hugo to come to and ask questions?

Art is immortal. Doom Eternal will live far longer than Hugo Martin will.

[desert scroll]

Daddy Hugo is appraised once again, at long last

[somber rain]

Hugo is that guy, pal

[fathom girder]

100 years in the future Hugo will have an AI backup of himself answering the questions.

[azure oriole]

Nobody knows who Shakespeare is and not a lot of people really care nowadays. But Hamlet is immortal and discussed to this day. Imagine if we stifled all that discussion - "wait! Let's dig up what Shakespeare said about this work so we can tell if our discussion is correct or not."

I like when you can theorize something to a point but i also like answers

[fathom girder]

The worst part is. This is true.

[desert scroll]

What’s hamlet

[azure oriole]

I kinda like playing a game and just looking at something and being like thats sick and then just moving on

[visual topaz]

Run on the info I have and whatever the author already said about all of it and view the story through the lens the author wanted as best as possible. Unless the art is intended to have multiple interpretations, there's no reason not to. Accept thatr what is not elaborated on will never be.

[fathom girder]

We can theoreticaly speaking have ais based on people. In the future atleast..

[azure oriole]

I believe the idea is that Davoth simply wasn't able to do it himself, either because he didn't have the power to just make people immortal or he wasn't smart enough to find a solution. So he made machines do it. Much like how you might not know how to do a long-form equation, so you slap that shit into Google.

[visual topaz]

If we did do that, I would take every word as gospel. But until Hugo is dust in the Wind, what he says and what the writes say goes in my book.

[desert scroll]

(^_^)

[visual topaz]

Then if someone else picks it up and continues to write it, fair play, they write it know, so they call the shots.

[azure oriole]

Authorial intent is fickle. Hugo can say whatever he wants, but he's been outright wrong about Doom before, and he can be wrong about it again.

I just do not see the purpose, personally.

But didnt he make eternal and 2016

[compact temple]

What was he wrong abt?

[azure oriole]

only thing he can technically be wrong about is the games before 2016

[azure oriole]

"The Whiplash is the first female demon!"
The Spiderdemon:
The Mother Demon:
The Vagary:
The Spider Mastermind:

[visual topaz]

As a writer myself, and one that has been developing a deep fantasy world that is very personal to me, the purpose for me is I want to put a world out there that I made and that hopefully people enjoy. I make the world, I want it to be that way. People can interpret it differently if they want, but I decided on what the world was and what is true. And if they are wrong they are wrong.

[fathom girder]

So. Your trying to take away the Power of authors if they have alreay mentioned it in theyre story but are saying something else or am i missing something?

[fathom girder]

Finallyyyyy. An writer that does not give a fuck about what the public likes but what he likes.

[azure oriole]

What I'm saying is that art is effectively living and breathing on its own. The point of art is to interpret it. To stifle interpretation solely to what one person allows isn't in the spirit of art, IMO, and an ultimately pointless practice.

[fathom girder]

Yeah but the Story aint Art..

[azure oriole]

Yes it is lol.

Fiction is art. Videogames are art.

Doom Eternal is fiction, and thus it is art. It's human-made, meant to entertain humans, and has a point to it. That's art.

I like when games give a lot of stuff away without giving everything away I kinda like a little bit of mystery so i agree when it comes to that

[young mango]

art definition:

the various branches of creative activity, such as painting, music, literature, and dance.

[azure oriole]

It's one thing when you're discussing lore bullshit. I will reluctantly accept certain things Hugo says about Doom unless it's literally incorrect bullshit like the Whiplash thing. But I don't really care for it, I don't like when artists answer questions about their story that best went unanswered (like Davoth being the narrator of 2016's Testaments) and I recognize that often these statements may be completely thrown out in the future if they have a better idea for a story.

But i think if Hugo says something it is most likely true

[strange gale]

bad art is still art

[azure oriole]

Art isn't dependent on quality. Eternal's story is sometimes poorly-told but that doesn't make it not art. Art also isn't just fiction.

[fathom girder]

Yeah but the author is confirming it. Which makes it true. He made this story. He decides whats false or right

Or isnt He the author?

[azure oriole]

Eternal's gameplay loop, combat mechanics, visual design, and music work are all art. Great art at that.

[strange gale]

something something death of the author

[young mango]

Hugo isn’t the sole writer of doom eternal, he is a creative director, he has a lot of oversight, but it doesn’t mean everything he says is the end all be all

[azure oriole]

I'm saying I reject the notion that the author decides what is right or wrong in a story. Once the story's out there, the author is effectively just another person.

Good example of this is John Romero's SIGIL. John Romero helped make motherfucking Doom, but that doesn't mean SIGIL is canon or official Doom content.

[azure oriole]

Honestly thats a interesting take

SIGIL is simply a really well made Doom fan mod, and the fan who made it just so happens to have helped make Doom once upon a time.

[visual topaz]

I absolutely cannot agree with this. Especailly not if it's a personal work.

[azure oriole]

It's a subjective debate. If you disagree, you disagree.

[fathom girder]

Yeah. Okay. No. Then the author can just change the Story or upload an Update where an part of the lore is changed. The author has full control of the story. And can delete it or edit it. Thats how it always is.

[azure oriole]

This is only a recent development. Stephen King didn't go back and patch The Shining to change the ending lol.

[visual topaz]

This is only the case anyway because John doesn't even legally work on Doom anymore. Anything Id Software creates about Doom and writes about it is the actual writing and continuity.

[azure oriole]

Honestly depends on the art form I like how they dont tell you everything about Bloodborne or Fight Club and you can kinda theorize on what you think happened without it being 100% true.

[fathom girder]

Just because one person didnt doesent mean others cant it doesent matter if others can do it but choose not to. It matters that they can.

[cloud harness]

Best quickswitchs?

[azure oriole]

it makes an interesting dynamic however in some things i like knowing everything about it.

Updates change the game a little bit, but that's still just making changes to the story itself. If Hugo Martin updates Doom Eternal to change the Codex files and tweak lore, that's a change to the story and one I will accept. If he goes on Twitter and says "Actually the Doom Slayer is really a pack of 300 rats piloting a human skinsuit" JK Rowling style, I am not going to accept this as canon lol.

[fathom girder]

That they have this Power.

[azure oriole]

That's a guy saying something about a story that has separated from him. Making art is like making a person. Your level of control will only go so far; eventually you must accept that your child is going to go down a path you won't follow, and ultimately it is a separate organism.

[fathom girder]

The author is the creator of the story and decides what is right and wrong. Nothing you say will change that. Its always like this they are the creators of that Story. They can delete or edit it. They can change it. And the matter of the fact is that they CAN. Everything else is just bullshit.

[azure oriole]

Yeah no dude, you're still not getting it. You're operating on the default assumption that the author decides what's right and wrong simply because they are the author. That's circular logic. I reject the notion entirely, so just repeating that won't convince me.

[visual topaz]

Writers are definitely capable of making stupid outside decisions.

[fathom girder]

Exactly..

[azure oriole]

And I'm not coming at this from the perspective of some asshole who just consumes art. I've been writing since I was a child; I'm in the process of making a commercial videogame now, and I accept that once that game enters the public consciousness, it exists as its own entity outside of me.

[young mango]

agreeing with m0no: no
agreeing with somebody when they repeat what m0no just said: yes

[azure oriole]

I can provide my own interpretations of my own art, sure - but they hold no more or less weight than the interpretation of a fan. The only reason they would is if people decided they do.

And I'm not saying the interpretation of the artist means nothing. I think it means everything. Just like I think the interpretation of the reader, the viewer, the player, means everything.

[young mango]

annoying contrarian

[visual topaz]

There is a degree of give and take, but ultimately the Writer is the one that made it, and know it best. There is a boundary that a writer can cross where it doesn't make sense to listen to them anymore. Things like what JK rowling did are bad and don't make any sense because the story finished ages ago and she's neurotic. She is not worth listening to anymore. Doom is a franchise still under development and being written by people who have a specific vision that they are still fleshing out. So at this stage, it is their word above all for me.

[azure oriole]

When I look at The Lord of the Rings, I accept the very interesting interpretation of Tolkien's that Saruman's actions in Isengard reflect his own anti-industrialist worldview. I love that idea. But it is only one of many interpretations.

Fans think a lot of that story, just like Tolkien did.

Another example: The Room. Tommy Wiseau intended this hilariously awful film to be a gritty drama, but ultimately it is regarded as a comedy.

[young mango]

more like intended it to be money laundering

[azure oriole]

Wiseau's intentions meant jack shit. It doesn't fucking matter what he intended. What matters is what it was, and what it was, was a hilariously awful movie. Even Wiseau himself accepted this.

You don't see anyone saying "The Room is a serious, gritty drama movie! Tommy Wiseau intended for this after all." If they did, would you see people throwing spoons at the movie and making ridiculous noises as it played in its theatrical showings?

[visual topaz]

This is becasue the execution was bad. If the excecution was good, then it would be taken seriously. Skill is an important part in the creation of media. In my personal view, if the skill of all involved resulted in a glorious final product, then it is a no brainer to trust the makers of the media.

[azure oriole]

But the execution wasn't bad. It was incredible. The Room is a fantastic comedy movie.

Tommy Wiseau failed at what he intended to do, but he still created a genuinely iconic work of art that has remained popular and relevant for years - and it consistently gives people a great time when they watch it. It's just not for the reasons he wanted it to.

[visual topaz]

Oh yes it is. Because it was terribly made, we do not acknowledge that the creator had any skill and so we implicitly do not accept the makers intentions because they could not pull off their own vision. This is an aspect that is just a fundamental truth of making media. Your savvy determines the respect you're given for your vision.

[azure oriole]

Tommy Wiseau is given respect. I've been to showings of The Room and everyone loves him when he shows up there. He is applauded, and engaged with on a genuine level.

[visual topaz]

Well yeah this is because he's come around to accept and enjoy what ultimately came of it.

[azure oriole]

Yeah, and look how happy he is for it! I've met the man, he's a riot to be around and the smile he has on those showings is a genuine one. Because the guy ended up understanding this concept - that The Room is his child, not an extension of himself, and its impact on the world will not abide by his intentions for it.

[visual topaz]

So yeah it's a comedy. everyone perceived it as one, and before he accepted that I would have mostly just felt bad for him that he tried to do something way over his head. The Room as it is and as it is percieved by others was an accident.

[azure oriole]

And what happens when someone watches this movie and doesn't have this context?

[visual topaz]

It goes the way it goes, but their lack of context makes for an overall incomplete experience, and understanding.

[azure oriole]

How much context makes it complete, then? Where does the line end? Much of Wiseau's life is still a mystery.

[visual topaz]

And yeah sure everything will go that way eventually. Doesn't mean it's isn't ultimately wrong in the majority of cases. At this point this is just a personally thing with me but I like to know everything I can about something, and it is always more enriching.

As far as where the line ends, only as much as we can find out. And at this point, it all becomes pretty flakey because yes eventually a work will become distant from its creator and be interpreted differently and the like. And that's ultimately okay. But in the end, the creator of a work is the one who knew everything about it. The march of time will remove the creator of any work, but this is the destiny of everything. And when the writer is no more and they cannot be asked for their context either people fill in their own blanks or accept they will never know. I would be the latter.

I'd have fun guessing, but me personally, I would never claim to know the truth because of my own interpretations. Because I didn't make the thing.

I'd love if we could always have the writer's context. But we won't and I think that is a great shame.

[azure oriole]

Well, sure, but "accept they will never know" is an idea that only works when you place the ideas of the author's on a pedestal. I know, because I just looked at the story and saw the answers, and the answers I interpreted were good enough for me. Filling in your own blanks is not a lesser task than grabbing from the author's context.

The act of creation isn't always something that is conscious. When I write it isn't always deciding the entire story. You are not just a creator, you are also a conduit. Sometimes you make a character, but sometimes, miraculously, the character simply comes to you - already formed, already existing, their traits and story already decided, dependent on you as the conduit to make it happen.

[visual topaz]

This has happened to me many times. I come up with fully formed ideas almost regularly. But they are mine, and mine alone.

[azure oriole]

This is why I don't care about authorial intent. Not all of the creative directions of Doom were decided, explicitly, by Hugo Martin and the writers. Some of them, maybe even a lot of them, were just plucked from an aether that they were lucky to have connected with briefly. Something appears to you, and you use it, because you love it.

[visual topaz]

I share them and people can think what they like, but if someone asks me, I'm telling them how it is. But they can interpret it how they like. I've no problem with that, even if the interpretation is incorrect.

[azure oriole]

And when you are no longer around to deem that interpretation incorrect, it ceases to be this. It just is. It's a formless mass of ideas.

[novel latch]

i just finished doom on ultra nightmare i love this game

[verbal wigeon]

gg

[visual topaz]

When I am no longer around to deem them incorrect, they will still be incorrect. I will simply no longer be around to say one way or the other.

[visual topaz]

Hell yeah!

[novel latch]

thank u '

[azure oriole]

Nobody will be. The objectivity of them being incorrect doesn't exist when the source is no longer there.

[visual topaz]

I can't bring myself to play on regular nightmare yet. XD

[novel latch]

i hope dark ages is good

[novel latch]

😂

[verbal wigeon]

lol what?

[novel latch]

lol it takes courage

and im 15 lol

[azure oriole]

It simply becomes an assumption, one that you can only infer the existence of.

Should I not sleep and beat Eternal or should I sleep

[novel latch]

BEAT DOOM

[verbal wigeon]

sleep and beat

[azure oriole]

I slept until 10:05 today so 10 hours of sleep

[verbal wigeon]

no sleep means less concentration

messes up everything

[azure oriole]

In my opinion - better to accept the reality and invite it faster than cling to it. I am just happy enough to be the conduit for a great story. Beyond that, it means too much to me for me to try and constrict it to my own understanding. Sometimes the story you make is bigger than you are.

Read above

[verbal wigeon]

definitely not recommend that

[novel latch]

i was up till 5 am today and woke up at 8 45

[azure oriole]

Damn

[verbal wigeon]

that's not good

[novel latch]

im in australia its on 3pm rn

[azure oriole]

@verbal wigeon read dis

[novel latch]

it was the least sleep i have had for a long time

[visual topaz]

This is like theorizing about the begining of the universe. We could be wrong about it. But we can't see it. We'll never know. But if we are wrong we are wrong. We simply will not know. But it also won't matter. The state of being true or false is a permanence. It is one way or the other forever. Whether we know it or not.

[verbal wigeon]

cool

[azure oriole]

That is, BTW, a major reason why classic media remains classic and why I don't think many stories nowadays will have the staying power that stories of a century ago, or half a century ago, have. Because they allow and encourage interpretation, either deliberately or indirectly as a result of information not spreading as easily as it does now.

Fuck it I'ma beat Eternal

[novel latch]

add me and share screen

[azure oriole]

I'm leaving for a flight in like 5 hours so might as well

[visual topaz]

I'll play nightmare eventually, but I have to be mentally prepared for it cause I know I will get my ass kicked. Especially by TAG 1.

[verbal wigeon]

i wish i had a better pc to beat it on nightmare. sometimes a lag kills me

[azure oriole]

I don't know how to link my discord to Playstation so oh well

[novel latch]

ohhhhh

allg

[signal willow]

Hi

[verbal wigeon]

I played tag1 and 2 on nightmare. It was not bad. Tag2 was way easier than tag1 tho

[novel latch]

😭

[azure oriole]

I'm doin my first playthrough on nightmare

[azure oriole]

Yo

[signal willow]

Just wanted to know if you people have completed the master levels

And talk a little about it

[azure oriole]

Nope haven't started em

[signal willow]

In trying to do some of them

[azure oriole]

The studies and research behind the narrative of The Lord of the Rings are immense. People write a lot about this, they devote entire, significant fractions of their life to it. Because the story is ultimately a lot bigger and a lot more ethereal than Tolkien himself is, and we can derive our own meaning for it.
I don't really think we'll see many stories nowadays last that long and remain that popular, when so many discussions and interpretations can be shut down or criticized because "Well the creator uploaded a YouTube video back in 2026 and they said you're wrong lmao."

[verbal wigeon]

almost all (except cultist base)

[signal willow]

Is hard as hell

[novel latch]

should i get tag 2

[verbal wigeon]

yep

[novel latch]

i finished tag 1 aswell

[verbal wigeon]

Play the unofficial ml

u will have a ton of fun

[novel latch]

?

[verbal wigeon]

custom master levels

[novel latch]

OHHHHHH

i def will

[signal willow]

I'm doing rn the perfect is perfect archivement

[verbal wigeon]

Which one?

I did only on uv. Again because nightmare is a mess on my pc

[signal willow]

I can't upgrade the doom guy

In the base game

Like only one armor upgrade and only one cristal

It's an in game achievement

[novel latch]

do it on the ship use baterys

[novel latch]

?

[visual topaz]

I'm sure it will. This is what leads to the creation of new ideas from existing ones and new variations on old stories. But they were still made by someone who decided what it was. Doesn't change that. And it's fine for something to evolve overtime into something else. But the original intention behind everything is always there and it wouldn't exist in the first place if it wasn't. If there wasn't an express intention by someone to make something. I respect this immensely. Anything that comes from that original idea is not the original idea, and if it is made into its own media then that media is its own thing with its own rules and determined by its own writers. But interpretations can be right and wrong. And it's okay if they are either. But it won't make them any less true or untrue.

[hexed hollow]

My fellow slayers I ask that thou defeat the icon of sin in my name for I have become another year older

[visual topaz]

It shall be done.

[signal willow]

I'm Spanish, don't know how it is in English, here is "hitos" there are 133

[verbal wigeon]

did anyone tryout the classic maps in eternal/

?

[hexed hollow]

Thank you my comrade

[novel latch]

i did it doom 2016

[visual topaz]

The E1M1 recreation is awesome.

[verbal wigeon]

cool. Hope we get more stuff

Maybe plutonia experiment but balanced for eternal.

[azure oriole]

No

[verbal wigeon]

That would be cool af

[novel latch]

https://tenor.com/view/doom2-doom-archvile-gif-23324214

[azure oriole]

Make it just as hard as Doom 2

Wait now I wanna see Go 2 It but in Eternal

[verbal wigeon]

Why not

[signal willow]

I'm trying to get all the 133 achievements

[azure oriole]

Eh. I think this is all misguided. There's no point in worrying about this difference in right or wrong, correct or false, when there's no source to confirm this; it just isn't there, it literally does not exist anymore, and might as well not exist even before that depending on how talkative the author is.
I'm tired and not gonna continue further. It's a fundamental difference in outlook and not one that easily is changed through discussion; you may want to check out The Death of the Author if you are interested. Have a good day.

[azure oriole]

I was responding to the second part, hell yeah Plutonia Eternal

[signal willow]

Alr having 108

[verbal wigeon]

yesss

[signal willow]

And also the master levels

[azure oriole]

You mean Milestones?

[verbal wigeon]

i ps think that world spear is the hardest

next is sgn ml

[signal willow]

Yes, that

[cloud harness]

Almost beat eternal
So far its been

[azure oriole]

Is World Spear in TAG 1/2

[verbal wigeon]

almost gave me a heart attack

[verbal wigeon]

2