doom-eternal

[turbid jetty]

I'll read anything at this point to avoid being productive

and then cram the entire essay into the last couple hours before it's due

that takes effort

[copper sorrel]

bro who reads twitter arguments

[turbid jetty]

I'm not a strong learner, my mind wanders if I deem the information boring within the first 7 seconds

[azure oriole]

reading this will also take effort
its not a small argument

[azure oriole]

a very long and stupid one

[turbid jetty]

more interesting than sociology

[azure oriole]

you do you man

[hot nest]

jerry springer has entertainment value. go for it.

here's the image of what he said.

[copper sorrel]

noodle has sub brick intelligence

[north oxide]

why is how someone else plays their game so important to you anyway? how does it affect your life at all?

then might I kindly suggest you shut it.

I apologize. You thought it was a question.

Let me rephrase. Shut. The fuck. Up.

I think baby missed his nappy time

[turbid jetty]

https://tenor.com/view/facepalm-really-stressed-mad-angry-gif-16109475

cause you keep being condescending to what they say

[hot nest]

maybe because you're an unrepentant, constantly condescending asshole?

[north oxide]

"Grow up" says the asshole who makes condescending remarks about things that don't concern him in the slightest.

[hot nest]

i literally don't know these people.

people don't like you because of you.

[north oxide]

Nachos and I have never met before, but I'm sure they're significantly more tolerable than you.

[turbid jetty]

alright how about everyone moves on

[hot nest]

ffiinnee....

[turbid jetty]

yeah they probably wouldn't if you didn't add a condescending comment every other message

[hot nest]

how about that?

what you just said?

nevermind. straw man incoming.

that's a pretty shitty emotional response to have to everything.

[north oxide]

that's really immature.

[turbid jetty]

retaliating doesn't help you look any better, generally why it's best to just walk away and ignore

[north oxide]

how old is this kid?

[copper sorrel]

bro this is why no one likes you noodle

ego as fragile as a piece of glass

[young mango]

You realize you started this right

[glossy forum]

You need help

[lyric lodge]

reminds me of someone i knew

[copper sorrel]

i know right

mental help

[lyric lodge]

worst thing is bro was the co-owner of a server

[turbid jetty]

a snickers, I hear they really satisfy

[lyric lodge]

he's probably hungry

[glossy forum]

The help that makes you not say dumbshit

[copper sorrel]

this convo

[hot nest]

you've been saving alot of kindling, noodle.

[glossy forum]

I don't know man i wonder

[copper sorrel]

im like a moth im attracted to drama

[north oxide]

he keeps saying 'pissing contest' like he knows what that actually means

[glossy forum]

Strawman

[turbid jetty]

same, speaking of which I gotta finish this essay dammit

[lyric lodge]

i dislike drama 💀

[hot nest]

he's never been in a pissing contest because every time he entered one, he started changing goalposts and coming up with abritrary rules in his favor.

[copper sorrel]

i love drama whole reason im in this server

[north oxide]

i've been silently watching this entire thing unfold on my second monitor while i was doing other shit up until now

[turbid jetty]

bruh, this server is one of the less drama filled servers for me

I usually talk here because it's a breath of fresh air from drama

[hot nest]

yus.

[glossy forum]

Tammie i think we need to cut our loses

Man we can't save this guy

[lyric lodge]

drama is everywhere unfortunately, cant ever escape it

[north oxide]

you can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped

[turbid jetty]

with the hayman

[glossy forum]

i never asked you

[copper sorrel]

this server is a gold mine when it comes to drama

[turbid jetty]

I'm sorry that was a poor joke

not even funny

[hot nest]

not really. this server is actually pretty well moderated.

[young mango]

Well, it’s over?

[hot nest]

especially considering it's size.

[north oxide]

nah it's usually pretty chill, once in a while there's some asshole though

[turbid jetty]

yeah me

[copper sorrel]

im normally never active in the text chats but since the vc's got nuked

[north oxide]

lol nah you good

i'm more in text chat. i generally don't like using voice chat unless i'm gaming

[glossy forum]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B6T_9YCnhI

[azure oriole]

thats not doom

[turbid jetty]

meh, who wants to talk about Doom in Doom chat

[azure oriole]

yeah who goes to the doom server to talk about doom

[jolly kernel]

it’s funny that Heretic, a game made on the Doom engine, had a Gargoyle enemy which was basically the Imp of that game, then Doom Eternal also added a Gargoyle enemy which is also mostly an Imp but can fly

[turbid jetty]

ayo

Heretic remake game when

guess we got Amid Evil for that

[hot nest]

Amid evil has more quake in it's DNA than heretic

Heretic has always been it's own beast

Hexen took a sharp turn and heretic 2 has more in common with quake 2 and Jedi knight

Them 1st lvl gauntlets....

[strong pumice]

Marauder is bad design

[jolly kernel]

barbarian looking mf

[strong pumice]

Two things I hate about Marauder...the instant shielding like he's a fucking mentalist and knows precisely when you're going to shoot, except...of course...when he swings his axe which brings me to the second problem: the goldilocks-range minigame of getting his AI to swing the axe instead of shotgunning or throwing the red magic.

Great idea, poorly implemented. Throws off the pacing and forces you into strict behavior, opposing the core mechanics of the game...utilizing your whole kit. I either kill him much too easily, because there is no creativity to it, or I die horribly because he won't swing the axe. Killing him while dazed is not even satisfying and you often end up missing the glory kill because you're power swapping SSG/Ballista

I really wish he had a few small tweaks and was more common because a faster paced enemy that isn't just a bullet sponge with easily dodged attacks is nice but he's immune to remote det, microwave beam, ice grenades, etc. Hard to have fun with marauder the way he is designed imo

[turbid jetty]

Throwing of the pacing and forcing you into strict behaviour is the entire point of him

[strong pumice]

I know. I hate it

[turbid jetty]

that's arguably what makes it good game design though

the developers get you used to a flow and a rhythm, so they intentionally throw you off it

forcing you to have to adapt

[strong pumice]

...because they thought that would be a good idea

[turbid jetty]

I mean it is, it challenges you doesn't it?

[strong pumice]

Adapt to doing things exactly one way. And no thats my real issue with him is when I win it doesn't feel good and when I lose it doesn't feel like my fault.

I mean I can admit when it's my fault and certainly there are times but

[turbid jetty]

yeah, the game allows you variety in how you handle encounters, so it throws a wrench at you by giving you an encounter with no variety

[strong pumice]

I hear you but I dont think that was a wise choice. At least it doesn't feel implemented well

[turbid jetty]

true, it could be better

[strong pumice]

Mostly his range specific axe swing thing and being magically immune to everything else

[turbid jetty]

once you get used to him he's easy to deal with

[strong pumice]

I kill him without taking damage often enough of nightmare

But it never feels good. Just paused playing DOOM to play Marauder minigame

Hugo once slipped hard that even he knows Maurauder has issues when he was asked which demon was the best and he spurted out Marauder and then quickly corrected "well...in terms of what he brings to the game"

[turbid jetty]

I feel as though it's consistent with the design of the game, that being the whole game is designed to try to kick your ass as much as possible

[strong pumice]

I mean, yeah the enemies are supposed to kill you.

When the campaign introduces him it is stark opposite what the game taught you up to that point. It said "hey I see you learned to dance the dance and have fun...how about none of that is useful now?"

[turbid jetty]

if you're a person who has never played Doom before you have to adapt to it in order to progress, such as always moving, conforming to the games gameplay loop etc

and then once you're feeling comfortable with that, in comes the marauder as a "fuck you"

[strong pumice]

I progress fine, and I love the game. Played the last 3 titles and some old school

It is a fuck you lol and thats not the best design choice. For the high octane players he is still a controversial enemy.

[turbid jetty]

yeah, depends who you ask though

[strong pumice]

Again, I'd love to see him altered and even featured more often but the way he is its like "how often can we stop everything and say fuck you to the player?"

[turbid jetty]

there are people who have gotten so good at quick switching and used to his triggers they dispose of him within seconds

[strong pumice]

Yeah...but they don't get to be creative at all

[turbid jetty]

as well as others figuring out how to basically break his ai to leave him vulnerable and quickly eliminate him

but I do think that at that point his existence is kinda... pointless

[strong pumice]

Every demon has multiple combos to take them down. Marauder has very limited options, mostly just abusing the dog outside of the intended behavior

[turbid jetty]

kinda like the whole point of getting good at beating him is so you can move on from him as quickly as possible

[strong pumice]

Thanks

Overall I think a lot of what Eternal does right and is loved for isn't fully optimized within the game. Like they didn't quite get the most out of it. Which is a small complaint when they conceived of what feels like a dozen new genius mechanics. It all just feels underutilized and given Hugo said they're heading towards something a little less sweaty, a little slower paced and intentional...I'm sad it may not be optimized for a bit or ever.

[azure oriole]

I have my issues with the marauder because I feel like it could’ve been so much cooler, but I actually do like what they bring to the game (assuming they aren’t overused). Being pursued by one or more marauders in a hectic arena is nerve wracking and I love it.

Was playing Taras Nabad ML yesterday and the ending of that level is basically what I’m talking about

[strong pumice]

Id agree full heartedly if there were just some means of staggering or slowing him that wasn't direct combat, as you can do with the other demons

[azure oriole]

Maybe a remote detonation rocket to the back or something?

[strong pumice]

YES

The fact it does nothing just throws logic out the window. Like I'll accept an insane demon reflex speed that is faster than bullets but if his shield is facing forward then an explosion behind him should do something

Or even if they offered another means of stunning him with insane ammo consumption like a fully charged ballista beam or two rounds of burst rockets...so that you have to devote time and resources to him just for a chance to kill, if you can't pull off the dark souls parry

[azure oriole]

I like those ideas

[strong pumice]

Probably options with PC mods but I'm console

Thanks tho

[azure oriole]

Np

But yeah I’m not a marauder fanboy that will defend every aspect of them but I do like at least something they bring to the game personally.

Still pretty flawed ofc

[strong pumice]

He is a very cool chess piece in the game i can give him that. I really have a 50/50 take on him

I wish I had the link saved but Hugo straight Freudian slips that he sees problems too. Totally rolls back on calling him the best demon design.

To be fair though Hugo has to juggle the fanboys and please everyone.

Their streams and community interaction is prime, I'm still going through his playthrough streams

[azure oriole]

If I could change them I’d have the marauder be a recurring boss that acts almost like a 1v1 PVP with new move sets every appearance. I haven’t fleshed out in my mind what those movesets or arenas would look like exactly but it’s a concept to build around at least.

[strong pumice]

Hey that sounds cool. I enjoyed the first fight because I wasn't trying to do the Doom dance and his unique dance simultaneously

Just fodders for when you mess up

[azure oriole]

Have the marauder verbally taunt us, add in some lore about him being the leader of the loyalist night sentinels to build that rivalry with the slayer, and everytime we defeat him we maim him badly so he returns with more cybernetics that play into his movesets.

Half of the marauders cool factor was his dialogue I needed more of that

[strong pumice]

N E M E S I S

Yeah their whole existence is an empassioned knight who lost his faith, like what other copy paste demon gets that backstory

[azure oriole]

It feels like at one point they wanted to make him a boss but changed their mind

[strong pumice]

Not sure if I've ever heard one way or the other but I agree. He has big boss vibes

Funny how much flak he gets and curse demon is in the corner giving the side eye

[azure oriole]

Cursed prowler?

[strong pumice]

Yeah

[azure oriole]

Oh yeah those fuckers

[strong pumice]

Talk about dumb and restrictive gameplay

[azure oriole]

They throw me off so badly

Such a troll enemy

[strong pumice]

I've yet to die from it somehow...saying that imma jinx myself

[azure oriole]

I wasted two of my extra lives in my second encounter with one but otherwise I haven’t died yet

[strong pumice]

Sounds like a bluff but I swear. I make it my mission to hop my way to his ass Pronto. Still haven't finished Tag2 so he has a chance still

You know he probably got me in the first encounter...wasn't he in Tag1?

[azure oriole]

No just TAG2

[strong pumice]

Probably the base prowlers then. For a semi fodder their teleports mess me up

I remember having an issue with the color purple in Tag1

[azure oriole]

Prowlers are basically the intermediary between fodder and demons that can fuck you up

[strong pumice]

I used to make the mistake of treating the snake fuckers like prowler level threats

[azure oriole]

Lock on rocket goes brrrrr

[strong pumice]

I know! But im a remote det main

[azure oriole]

I actually like the specter whiplashers because you can’t abuse lock on

[strong pumice]

My launcher has barely seen the mod lol

[azure oriole]

Respect

[strong pumice]

Hahaha

Feels like I'm just gimping myself all the time. I see it in videos and I'm like, idiot you could do that and not die to whiplashers

[azure oriole]

Lock on is usually better but remote det is still pretty good

It’s great how even most of the “less useful” mods have their utility

[strong pumice]

I've been forcing myself into autoshotty

Its a lot of fun, but the aim settings i use dont do tracking well

[azure oriole]

Autoshotty for the feels

[strong pumice]

So much better than the burst from 2016

[azure oriole]

Fr burst is ass

[strong pumice]

Mod that never gets bought lol

[azure oriole]

Been replaying 2016 and the grenade launcher overshadows it so much

[strong pumice]

I always feel bad for some reason like it deserves a try especially early on

I've never done it

[azure oriole]

It’s alright against a tanky demon that’s right in your face

[strong pumice]

Pretty specific. If it didn't use the extra ammo I'd make sense. Like it grenade cost 3 ammo

[azure oriole]

But kind of situational and honestly SSG is probably better for that

Weapon mod swaps are slow in 2016 as well

[strong pumice]

Even without meathook 2016 SSG feels heftier

[azure oriole]

Haven’t used SSG enough to really say in 2016

[strong pumice]

Super slow...it really didn't encourage much change...as hugo has said many times over...he talks about it too often

[azure oriole]

Meathook my beloved

[strong pumice]

Another thing I do not fully utilize. I have to remind myself to use it

[azure oriole]

It’s amazing especially once fully upgraded

[strong pumice]

I'm always trying to save ammo for SSG lol

I love the movement abilities but on console the speed it nerfed

Well, PC frames allow for greater speed which wasn't intended but.....

[azure oriole]

Don’t sweat it ammo replenishing is pretty easy in DE

I’m on console as well so I get the pain

[strong pumice]

Ik Ik, like especially in Tag2 you don't need to save ammo in this game

[azure oriole]

You’ll get used to it though

[strong pumice]

Eternal takes a good bit of cognitive resources to play right

Thats a lot of guns and mods to juggle in your head.

[azure oriole]

Yeah it takes alot of your attention. Whenever I get distracted I’m thrown out of my groove.

Which I am a lot because I have a puppy lol

[strong pumice]

Hahaha

Marauder has more than one pooch on his side...

[azure oriole]

[strong pumice]

You play doom 3 ever?

[azure oriole]

Yeah on pc I liked it a lot

Original specifically bfg edition sucks

[strong pumice]

Nice I haven't had the privilege of playing on PC. I have to limit my flashlight use myself lol

A game that would've benefitted greatly from a weapon wheel on console

[strange gale]

lol https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/504714848194527236/1108704174360756264/how_he_stand_on_perc_30.mp4

[azure oriole]

Or simple button mapping

Even the classic dooms let you map weapons to the d-pad

[strong pumice]

Wtf is going on here? FOV so high i can't see marauder

[strong pumice]

Oh good to know

[strange gale]

oh it's just that you can pb him after an axe throw and then keep him locked in place

if he's far away like that you can just spam pb and it'll probably work regardless of what he's doing, up close that's not reliable anymore

as openings, axe throws feel just about as reliable as green flashes

[strong pumice]

I had no clue axe throws were an opening...

[strange gale]

yeah they're probably not supposed to be

[strong pumice]

Is there a specific timing to it? In the video its quite a span after he throws it, much longer than the eye flash window

Unless the wait is necessary

[strange gale]

the wait isn't for any particular reason

you can probably pb as soon as he throws, and get a one cycle off of that

[strong pumice]

Neato! What about range? Can I get any closer than in the video and still pull it off.

Hugo slipping his reservations about Marauder...

https://www.youtube.com/live/0FImIJkY9Wk?feature=share

Skip yo 1:29:20

[strange gale]

i'll mess with it more but i'd imagine any axe throw works

[strong pumice]

Thanks for sharing this, gonna try it out

[strange gale]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/504714848194527236/1108713542502318170/0cyc_5.mp4

yea it just works

[strong pumice]

This...this is a game changer

Now I have 2 windows

[crimson yarrow]

Do you think the following changes to the TAG2 final boss make him challenging enough?

-Hammer pick-ups removed
-Dark Lord changes (Based heavly on Konvaz's Dark Lord Rework):
--Sword attacks:
---Are faster, stronger, and more frequent
---Break the Chaingun Shield in one hit
---Eyes flash green on every THIRD sword attack
--His health:
---Max is 80% of vanilla amount, across all stages
---Recovers more of his health when he hits you with his sword or shield
---No longer recovers it from you shooting him at the wrong time for no reason
--Requires a hard-hitting shot to falter (SSG, Ballista, Rocket)
--Has a quicker recovery from both standard and hammer faltering
--Moves progressively faster per stage of the fight
--Summons Maykr Drones and/or Hell Knights instead of wolves
--No longer drops extra hammer charges when "Glory-killed"
--Uses his mortar in Phase 1
---Mortar now emits a stunning hazard on detonation
--Shoots projectiles based on the Slayer's arsenal starting in Phase 2
---Adds quick-swapping and Samur-type projectiles in Phase 3

Too overwhelmingly difficult, even?

[frigid cypress]

Nah just put 2 marauders in there with yoh

both with spirits

[crimson yarrow]

And buff totems

[azure oriole]

eyes flash green on every third sword attack
very predictable

[crimson yarrow]

Yeah but you gotta time your dodges right while being careful to not back away too far because otherwise his combo resets

[azure oriole]

oh wait someome made a mod that changes his fight?

[crimson yarrow]

Yes

2 of them, actually

Pretty cool

[azure oriole]

right

[frigid cypress]

spirits are stronger than totems, and the game doesn't allow both to power up a target

[crimson yarrow]

Don't buffs make them faster?

[azure oriole]

spirits are just buff totems with added extra health

[frigid cypress]

That's why use spirits instead

[halcyon fog]

dont worry I THOUGHT it was cool... unlike... somebody

[solid quiver]

awesome way to kill a tyrant ngl

[azure oriole]

Spirit marauder

[solid quiver]

not hard to kill jsut annoying with the health imo

[azure oriole]

The fight is long as hell

[crimson yarrow]

I think spirits should still have breakable weakpoints

Like I don't know what tf does being possessed have to do with that

[azure forum]

Spirits are fine the way they are. They are a cool concept

[jolly kernel]

speaking of the Marauder, I have decided to use this combo on him

arbalest, 2 frag grenades then lock-on

[halcyon fog]

is that a 1 cycle?

[jolly kernel]

yes

[halcyon fog]

nice

are there any custom MLs that have Possessed Archies?

[azure forum]

I remember seeing a Reclaimed earth one that does have some.

[halcyon fog]

😕 ... reclaimed earth

[crimson yarrow]

I like one cycling the marauder with a full auto, that's my preferred strat

[regal hearth]

does battlemode matter at all? like i just bought the 2 ancient god parts seperately but idk if i shouldve just gotten the season pass or something instead

[frigid cypress]

#battlemode also probably not really

[regal hearth]

right forgot it had its own specific chat oops mb

[jolly kernel]

this is my method in regards to dealing with Marauders now!

[azure forum]

Battlemode is fun once you get into it. Both demon and slayer have their own pros and cons, but it is definitely a great mode. Not as active as it was before, but you can still find games depending on the platform

[regal hearth]

oh its a pvp thing? i didnt really look into it tbh

I was mainly focused on getting the dlc campaigns so thats all i really looked into

[azure forum]

Yep, it is. It is online multiplayer, 2 demons vs Slayer.

[regal hearth]

ah, yeah then im glad i didnt get it. cause i dont really care about pvp at all

[azure oriole]

honestly i havent tried battlemode because several people keep complaining about it

[jolly kernel]

how do you copy paste discord video urls?

[azure oriole]

i should try it if its still much active

[regal hearth]

as in when you someone sent it to you in dms or something but you dont want to download it to share it?

[jolly kernel]

I don't want to waste my time uploading quickswap vids on youtube

and I don't want to use the videos channel

[regal hearth]

should be able to right click and select copy link

[halcyon fog]

Battlemode by itself is fine its just that people really wanted a deathmatch mode and we never got it. battlemode just feels too much like the campaign

[jolly kernel]

this is the Marauder 1-cycle I was referring to

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACJgq3AnWvA

the Marauder really went from ''worst and most unbalanced enemy'' to an easily killable mook like every other DE enemy

[charred trail]

Cant believe people wanted ID to nerf them, glad that they didn't because they'd be a total joke by now

[frigid cypress]

Member invasion mode. I member

[charred trail]

Invasion mode 😔

probably but wouldve been cool

[jolly kernel]

was there any reason for why invasion mode was cancelled in the first place

[frigid cypress]

They should've just turned Battlemode maps into deathmatch maps, then we could have that and horde mode

[charred trail]

I'm sure it'd be disabled for UN and Extra life mode

[frigid cypress]

Cause it was a fucky concept to begin with

[azure oriole]

ah ic

[jolly kernel]

we never got any Doom game with official coop since Doom II

[frigid cypress]

Doom 3?

[jolly kernel]

xbox port only

[frigid cypress]

But... The controversy did give us UAC Atlantica... so I'm not complaining tbh

[charred trail]

60$ album with a free game

[frigid cypress]

We needed Levy to give us the banger that is UAC Atlantica

[azure oriole]

cannot fucking argue with that shit slaps hard

[charred trail]

what

[frigid cypress]

Honestly might be my top track.

[azure oriole]

the memer

[charred trail]

I actually do that all sounds off just music lmfaooo

I play like doom 2016 fan or whatever and I just turn all sounds off and leave the music

Cultist Base weeewoooo

[halcyon fog]

I mean there is the DeathMatch, Co-Op and Invasion mods which are solid

[charred trail]

https://youtu.be/hvOo2OyL_Tg

weeee

[frigid cypress]

https://youtu.be/4gGtH68GOOk

[charred trail]

Cultist Base bangs

[frigid cypress]

INDUSTRIAL METAL NOISES

[charred trail]

Best dlc song fight me
https://youtu.be/sSJLMvd0SHo

it's just so doom

all of 2016:

there's like 2 songs

The rest have long buildups but the song fucken bangs

[frigid cypress]

I'm ready

[charred trail]

The buildup is also very good

Rip and Tear and Skullhacker

2 best 2016 songs

People rarely mention it it's so good

[frigid cypress]

UAC Atlantica Heavy fighting goes the hardest. Name a song that goes harder. Please I have to know

[charred trail]

BFG division?

[frigid cypress]

Also if we're talking 2016 songs, Damnation is underrated

[charred trail]

I know I was messing with you it's my #3 2016 song

[frigid cypress]

https://youtu.be/i6LeyX5ogwI

[charred trail]

oh this one oh hell yea

Mastermind how did I forget

[frigid cypress]

Absolutely gives me that feeling of fighting in hell

[jolly kernel]

Harbinger is a remix of the menu theme of a particular Doom game

[frigid cypress]

Mastermind is basically BFG Division boss fight edition

[charred trail]

That's why it's so good

So my top 5 2016 songs are probably

1. Skullhacker
2. Mastermind
3. Rip and Tear
4. BFG Division
5. Damnation

Go listen to it right now

[jolly kernel]

what is the name of the fight theme used for Kadingir Sanctum

[charred trail]

Honestly rip and tear and bfg division were so good no one talks about the other really good songs enough

The parts at 1:20 are so good that lil drop into the beat is so good

[azure oriole]

honestly yall should appreciate rust dust and guts more

criminally underrated

[charred trail]

I like rust dust and guts but there's 15 other songs that overtake it lol

[azure oriole]

i mean cant argue

transistor fist pretty good

[frigid cypress]

I don't know but damnation is still good

[azure oriole]

damnation perfectly fits the hell levels

[jolly kernel]

playing games without music just doesn't give the same feeling as playing with them, and both nuDoom games are perfect examples of this

[charred trail]

Yes

[azure oriole]

it is a dubstep version of bfg lel

slower and grittier

[halcyon fog]

BFG10000 is the only true #1 spot but super gore nest, Meathook and BFG division are also acceptable

[charred trail]

Yeah but it's a gooder version

Also the worst doom song is

https://youtu.be/ouXQWqPo-aA

[azure oriole]

bfg 10k is a bit too fast for even eternal but i still like it

[charred trail]

Guitar riff
beep

[azure oriole]

super gore nest has the nastiest riffs and i love it it perfectly matches the theme of the level

[charred trail]

[halcyon fog]

HEY. that beep is AWESOME

[charred trail]

PTSD

[charred trail]

It's my second favorite eternal song

[halcyon fog]

BFG10000 is on youtube but theres nothing like ingame cuz the voice comms going "The BFG10000 is firing" while the song is playing adds so much to it

[jolly kernel]

I just like this one a lot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6LeyX5ogwI

[charred trail]

I'm listening to it right now

[azure oriole]

*screenshake

[halcyon fog]

that too

[azure oriole]

sad these arent on spotify

[halcyon fog]

https://youtu.be/WFqGIWAsbAQ

I actually cant describe how pumped up it makes me

[jolly kernel]

2016 has a lot of ambient/creepy sounding tracks

[charred trail]

Sad their channel got nuked

[jolly kernel]

I like how quite a bit of tracks in both nuDoom games are/have remixes of tracks from Classic Doom

[charred trail]

Yeah thank god for that burger guy

[jolly kernel]

Eternal's menu theme is also Doom II's Icon Of Sin theme

[azure oriole]

the 2016 ambient tracks are also great ye

[charred trail]

banger I was sad when they got rid of it during dlc

[azure oriole]

the argent tower ambient and arc ambient

https://youtu.be/uzmW2hztih4

[halcyon fog]

I suppose both games have different tones but sometimes I miss the more weirdo dubsteppy 2016 tracks

[azure oriole]

SYNTHSS

I actually really like the idea of fighting demons while climbing a huge tower

[jolly kernel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88F_RBpNUj0

[halcyon fog]

Eternal is a better game IMO but I miss the dark sci-fi alien=like tone. Now its all about them angels and spartan warriors lol

[azure oriole]

Fucking un killer that level

[jolly kernel]

I just love it when music from earlier installments of a franchise gets reused/remixed in later installments

[charred trail]

The dark lord boss theme is just a mix of different songs throught the series it's a Frankenstein song

[azure oriole]

it just got out of doom 3 and mick gordon was restricted to use synths
and as doom is a demonic game he made music that really fits the game perfectly

we still have epic guitar tracks like flesh and metal tho

[charred trail]

Guitar? You mean Chainsaw?

[halcyon fog]

the fact that he calls Mouth for War by Pantera "Untitled" makes my skin crawl lmao

[jolly kernel]

I mean that's the name of the track in Doom

[azure oriole]

ye flesh and metal has slowed down guitar

[charred trail]

Well he used guitar for the background so it doesn't count

[halcyon fog]

the fact that he synthed a chainsaw and made that will always be the most heavy metal doom thing to ever exist

[azure oriole]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4FNBMZsqrY&t=148s&pp=ygUPbWljayBnb3Jkb24gZ2Rj more info

lmaooo

cant imagine dying 3 hours in

must hurt like hell

the elevator in resource operations:

[charred trail]

[azure oriole]

and funny accidental rail boosts

Hi

[charred trail]

what's the most painful way to lose a UN run

Super gore nest escape timer

[azure oriole]

probably dying at the start
it will shatter your confidence to complete one

or some dumb ass death

[charred trail]

Cacodemons are the most common UN killer probably

[frigid cypress]

Not really. I think that's expected. Anything after cultist base sure. But Not level 1.

[charred trail]

gladiator boss

yeah but with enough practice you can get good
Remember how I said doom is a 60$ album with a free game? My favorite song tied with BFG 10k is gladiator. I've fought him at least 100 times now lol

[azure oriole]

ngl gladiator is a bit tough in second phase

[charred trail]

yeah because he deflects bullets and does more damage and summons stronger enemies and has harder attacks to dodge

[azure oriole]

this is why dps is so important in second phase

[jolly kernel]

just imagine almost finishing an ultra-nightmare run only to die right in the final boss fight 💀

[charred trail]

Triple rockets

I couldn't ever get that to work

[azure oriole]

why the screen shake bro

oh switch gyro probably

you playing on pc?

its not really the screen shaking but your aim is shaky

I don't know how to describe it properly

probably

King Novik is a b*tch

ultra nightmare.exe

Beginning of the game speech, Exultia you encounter him, and at the end of the game he gives another speech

Idk why they don’t let you skip it

at the end, i cant even remember
been a while since i played main campaign

but its the your fight is eternal line i only remember that

[halcyon fog]

the ending speech isnt even the worst part. The Arc broadcast where Doomguy is now superman are the worst ones

[azure oriole]

that fucking woman

the uac ai thing

[slow sigil]

they payed the voice actor a lot ok you can't just remove that

[halcyon fog]

I mean the absolute worst part in the whole game is DR. ELENA RICHARDSON holding her apple earbud mic in her mouth as she talks ab how HE IS DOOM

cringed SO HARD there lmao

[azure oriole]

That and the demon AI are cringe

[halcyon fog]

Demon AI was really good in 2016 but they went too cartoony with it this time its corny

it was funny at Quakecon lmao

but thats where it ends

[turbid jetty]

I remember thinking Elena would be a character they would introduce in person later

but that never happened

[halcyon fog]

I am glad they didnt lol

I have never listened to her logs after the first playthrough cuz I just cant

[turbid jetty]

na we got Doombro instead who's a million times better

[azure oriole]

honestly i really like the goofy intern in tag

[turbid jetty]

[halcyon fog]

thats the point. hes us. nerds who fangirl over doom guy

Intern was actually a great addition. hes goofy and solid

[turbid jetty]

ye, I liked him

[azure oriole]

was samuel's va changed by any chance

cuz he sounds a bit different in eternal

[halcyon fog]

maaaan. I get so depressed thinking what could have been if Eternal had proper deathmatch. The mod is awesome but if there was a mod that allowed like up to 10 players..... maaaan

[turbid jetty]

I'm not a fan of battlemode

[halcyon fog]

Its really fun for like 1 game and then you put it down for another 3 months

[azure oriole]

But that's also Elena Richardson

Doom fans constantly powerscale the Slayer and act like he's the biggest baddest most divine motherfucker ever to be featured in a game, but when Elena Richardson does it it's cringe.

[azure oriole]

It's all cringe btw

[acoustic lark]

ur cringe

fugg, now im cringe for using the term cringe

[regal hearth]

cringe

[lapis saddle]

Yeah I don’t like the whole “the Slayer is invincible” stuff either. He’s not only more believable but actively more interesting as someone who is extremely badass and good at surviving dangerous situations consistently, but isn’t powerful enough to do whatever the hell he wants. Actual Doom lore usually strikes that balance, with a couple of specific moments going against that a bit (mostly the scientist talking about him with such over the top language)

[azure oriole]

I like to think that the slayer started off as an experimental project

And further more got increased power from Seraphin

[azure oriole]

what

[dire flower]

Doom eternal is like God of War but I has
-gore
-hell
-demons
-so much more blood
-doom slayer
-no child
-is %125 more cool
-has guns
-and not norse

[azure oriole]

Not true keks not true!!!! No no no!!!

[azure oriole]

Both are cringe

[azure oriole]

So nothing like god of war

Cool observation

[dire flower]

Correct

[halcyon fog]

nah u could not be more wrong. Intern is ID not taking themselves seriously whereas Elena is ID diving super deep into Superman doomguy and oh my god hes more than a man or a good please save us from Judgement ALMIGHTY SLAYER ALL HAIL THE DOOM SLAYER nonsense. If you like Elena that is a major, MAJOR, red flag

[azure oriole]

Red flag for what

[halcyon fog]

just in general

untrustworthy😂

[azure oriole]

https://tenor.com/view/morbius-intriguing-interesting-jared-leto-interested-gif-26230035

I don’t like it when I see people downplay doomslayer into barely superhuman territory, he’s clearly godlike in power, but he isn’t omnipotent or anything

[halcyon fog]

yeah but thats not cool

everyone wants to be Chad Batman. Nobody wants to be beta Captain Marvel

[azure oriole]

Captain Marvel negs Batman

[halcyon fog]

https://tenor.com/view/red-flag-gif-19400654

[azure oriole]

It’s true

[halcyon fog]

maybe in power but not in coolness or badassery

This is whats annoying... Would these discussions not be better in a yelling form in a VC. Whoever took em out is certainly exerting red flag behavior

[jolly kernel]

I just never get tired of the Soldier glory kill where you impale his mouth

in fact, I always get behind his left just so I can get it

[young mango]

hey look at me I can watch this video without complaining about it

it’s really not that hard

[azure oriole]

Yeah except that literally is what Doom fans do all the fucking time.

The community is always flooded with Doom fans hyping up the Slayer as being an unstoppable god man who never loses anything. That is what Elena Richardson is doing.

[azure oriole]

He's not really "godlike" in power but he's a pretty badass superhuman.

Superhuman is a vague term but when I think of “superhuman” I think of Captain America, Black Panther, Deathstroke, etc. Doomslayer is far beyond that.

[young mango]

Not really

[azure oriole]

The Khan Maykr refers to Doomslayer as “human, once mortal” as well

[slow sigil]

doomguy's power is being biologically immortal and quite a bit stronger, that's it

[azure oriole]

“That’s it” as if that’s not a hugely impressive power.

[slow sigil]

well yeah but compared to what most people say it's not much

[azure oriole]

He kind of isn't. He is indeed around like Captain America or so. His power comes moreso from his will and lifespan, not superpowers.

[slow sigil]

biological immortality just means you dont age and dont get as easily sick, not full on "i can't be killed" immortality

[azure oriole]

Come on

This is contradicted by the games themselves. His armor is stated to be impenetrable to any conventional means, and his skin is at least relative to that.

[slow sigil]

where is it stated his skin is just as unbreakable as his armour

[young mango]

In a world full of demons and lazer cannons, what exactly is conventional?

[slow sigil]

and his armour is only unbreakable to the limited testing equipment on the UAC basis on mars, not demon magic and weaponry

[azure oriole]

It’s not, but it’s a heavy implication due to him not feeling the need to cover his skin in DE

And yes demon magic and weaponry scales far higher than UAC or modern day weaponry

That’s not a knock against doomslayer

[slow sigil]

they could get bloodtests on him, meaning his skin can be pierced by a needle

[azure oriole]

1. His armor is never ever stated to be "inpenetrable to any conventional means" - only that the UAC failed to penetrate it with their standard lab equipment.
2. His skin is never, ever confirmed to be "impenetrable". Eternal literally confirms he bled during the events of 2016.

[azure oriole]

3. Multiple enemies in 2016 and Eternal use UAC weaponry against the Slayer and are capable of killing him with it, mainly the zombified UAC and ARC soldiers.

Zombies, demons, and Maykrs alike are also capable of killing him with blunt-force trauma as well.

[azure oriole]

His sarcophagus isn’t opened until the beginning of 2016. Whatever blood they found was likely found on the field of battle.

[young mango]

This isn’t remotely correct

[azure oriole]

Elena Richardson outright says that they recovered his blood from the Mars Base.

He bled while fighting demons in 2016.

… that’s what I said?

[slow sigil]

misheard that specific part then

[azure oriole]

You can't exactly bleed if your skin is "impenetrable".

Please read

Yes, I did, I read the part where you said his skin was as impenetrable as his suit, which was already based on misinfo.

[slow sigil]

the biggest power of his suit is converting hell energy into stuff that fixes either him or his suit

[halcyon fog]

this started with the statement that Elena Richardson was cringey. Theres opinions on the power of Doomguy but anyone who thinks Elena isnt super cringey and annoying obv hasnt played the game lol

[azure oriole]

anyone who doesn't have my specific opinion on this part of the game hasn't played the game

[azure oriole]

I said it was relative. Demonic argent energy attacks output absurdly large amounts of heat

[halcyon fog]

https://tenor.com/view/correct-gif-20569410

[azure oriole]

Yes but standard UAC weaponry injures him as well. As do enemies punching him.

And there’s a obvious disconnect between lore and gameplay. A swing from a zombies arm should do nothing to the slayer.

Why?

[slow sigil]

because zombie arm<whatever the hell the UAC has for lab equipment

[azure oriole]

Don’t seriously argue a possessed zombie is even anywhere close to a Baron punch that’s just being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse

[slow sigil]

they have different damage numbers though

[azure oriole]

I didn't say that. I said a zombie can injure him, which it can.

[halcyon fog]

OBTUSE ALERT

[azure oriole]

That’s what this is

What sets the precedent that it has to to do nothing to him? There is nothing in Doom's lore that sets this precedent.

[slow sigil]

zombies are still powered by hell energy, no reason they can't have a bit of power behind them

[azure oriole]

Every single time the lore makes any claim that the Slayer is "indestructible" it's from people who worship him or monsters that are terrified of him. In both cases, they exaggerate.

The Slayer never, ever, ever exhibits any feats that establish him as genuinely "godlike" in strength. And no, you don't get to say "he killed God / the Icon of Sin / whatthefuckever" because guess what? He did that with guns.

"He killed the Great One though-" Yeah. With guns, and maybe a mech.

"But he killed God-" Davoth ain't God, and even if he was, he was powerless, and even then, he used a big hammer and more guns.

I’ve literally stated he’s not indestructible, but it’s just common sense to assume that a rotten corpse should do little to nothing to the slayer compared to lets say plasma weapons or direct argent balls that already exceed Kelvin scale in heat.

[slow sigil]

oh yeah 1 other power doomguy has: he can survive the berserk power

[slow sigil]

they arrent rotten

[azure oriole]

The rotten corpses have demon energy flowing through their veins.

[slow sigil]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/896461823786762300/1108823941453189171/image.png

[charred trail]

lore !

[young mango]

So doomguy killing demons with his hands isn’t even canon LMAO

[slow sigil]

it is with dash

[young mango]

I mean it’s canon but not in the sense people want it to be

[azure oriole]

They’re the weakest of the weakest fodder.

[slow sigil]

yeah, and

[azure oriole]

Let me use a example that’s a little more understandable

[slow sigil]

just because they are the weakest of hell's forces, they are still part of the forces of hell

[azure oriole]

It’s pretty obvious that the slayer can easily manhandle zombies with his fists, yet in eternal it takes dozens if not hundreds of punches to kill a zombie in eternal

[slow sigil]

if you take half of dash's damage as cannon punch damage (which would be fair enough) then it would take like about 5

[azure oriole]

I can understand this to a degree, and I get it. I'm not saying the gameplay is 100% canonically correct and represents the story entirely.

I'm saying it's, like... 75% canonically correct.

That’s an objective example of narrative/lore≠gameplay

[slow sigil]

in eternal it's about the closest you can get with the unreliable narrator lore, and even then it still comes pretty close

[azure oriole]

I do not think the Slayer is capable of much more, power-wise, than what we see in the gameplay. He can't magically punch a hole through a Baron of Hell in half a second, he can't run faster than the speed of sound or whatever. He relies on guns to kill demons, and he outsmarts them not through brute force but by being smarter, faster, and more persevering than them.

There’s a disconnect. A doomslayer taking argent fireballs from barons and punches from cyberdemons should not be even remotely vulnerable to the lowest of the low fodder.

[slow sigil]

and you base this on what?

does hell energy magically not flow through the zombies? are they suddenly not powered by hell itself?

[azure oriole]

It’s like saying Kratos is even remotely threatened by basic humans because in gameplay they can possibly kill him

[slow sigil]

except that in GOW we can also actually see multiple great feats

what is there in doom, punching a slippery cube?

[azure oriole]

And we don’t in doom?

[slow sigil]

with his vulnerability? nope

[azure oriole]

I’m not saying that Doomslayer is on par to Kratos, he just scales so far beyond fodder that you have to perform huge mental gymnastics to arrive at the conclusion you are now

[young mango]

Technically the baron can be killed fairly quickly but that’s again using non-canon things, although I love the concept of the baron being able to be double shot and then punch swapped canonically

[slow sigil]

no i'm just saying that you are massively downplaying fodder

[azure oriole]

Feels like I’m arguing with a pigeon

Luci is right here. The zombies are canonically flowing with demonic energy and that's not debatable.

Pretty basic stuff here. Cyberdemon >>>> Baron >>> Hell Knight >>>> Imps >>> Possessed. Zombies are so far behind the higher tier threats he’s faced that they only pose a remote threat to doomslayer because of gameplay

I don't think they're as strong as fuckin' Cacodemons or whatever.

[slow sigil]

when did i ever say zombies are stronger?

[azure oriole]

But they 100% are demons, they still have demonic strength to them.

You’re doing it again

[slow sigil]

ok so, let me get this straight

because doomguy can kill a cyberdemon

he is invulnerable to zombies

that doesnt make any sense

we where only arguing about them being able to hurt him if they can hit him

[young mango]

Look think about it this way, a grown man probably strong enough to fend off a black bear exists out there, but if he gets kicked in the nuts by a 7 year old it’s still going to hurt like a lot, does that analogy make sense

[frigid cypress]

7.62 is enough to Penetrate helmets. If I have this, I'm 100% immune to 9mm

[azure oriole]

^^^

[frigid cypress]

Just cause I have a BFG 9000 in Deathmatch, does not make me immune to the Plasma Rifle

or SSG

[charred trail]

If a mosquito can kill a bear, and I can kill a mosquito, that means I can kill a bear

[frigid cypress]

Fuck yeah!

[azure oriole]

It does? He shrugs off attacks from a being far far beyond even stronger hell spawn that can rip humans apart with ease. The power difference is so vast that basic zombies have no business hurting him. That analogy doesn’t work since the gap in power is so much wider than that.

[charred trail]

I think it was 14%? Of Americans think they could fight off a bear

[frigid cypress]

ITS A GAME MECHANIC. In lore probably not but still IN GAME THEY HAVE TOO

[slow sigil]

???? where are you suddenly getting "He shrugs off attacks from a being far far beyond even stronger hell spawn" from??

[azure oriole]

That’s what I’m trying to explain to Lucina lmao

[azure oriole]

When has he shrugged those attacks off?

[frigid cypress]

The lore god is here...

[slow sigil]

when his suit magically healed him afterwords duhh

[azure oriole]

He survived them without immediately dying. Don’t feel like playing semantics.

[charred trail]

Why doesn't a zombie just put a tripwire right by a ledge that doomguy has to parkour up, or just block the door

[slow sigil]

you're genuinely widening an imaginary power gap

[azure oriole]

You’re acting ignorant for the sake of doing so lmao

[frigid cypress]

While you're here @azure oriole
who narrates at the start of Doom 2016
Doesn't sound like King Novik

[slow sigil]

what if doomguy's suit was non-newtonian, and the UAC only tried their hardest to destroy it and that's why it wont work

[charred trail]

The subtitles say it is king novik 99% sure

[azure oriole]

I don’t know how I can simplify and already simple concept

[azure oriole]

It's Novik, the VA just changed.
Similar case: Davoth narrates the Slayer's Testaments. Just a different VA.

You’re just choosing not to understand it

[charred trail]

King Nokia

[slow sigil]

ignorant for acknowledging that because of the hell power flowing through zombies, they are capable of hurting himgiven the impossible opportunity?

[frigid cypress]

I always thought the Testaments could've been narrated by the Spider Mastermind. I thought the demonic voice might have just been them.
Oh well.

[azure oriole]

That “hell power” has given them no notable feats but just surviving post mortem

[charred trail]

What

[slow sigil]

the feat of being able to hurt doomguy which you supposedly see as invincible to anything but the icon

[frigid cypress]

I assumed the Spider Mastermind was the Demonic Lord at the time, since it changed after Davoth was put into soul sphere mode

[azure oriole]

If it means anything I infinitely prefer the Spider Mastermind having read it.

[charred trail]

Spider Mastermind was way weaker in the original doom, I'm glad it's actually powerful now

[frigid cypress]

Was it Hugo who said it was Davoth and Novik in 2016?

[slow sigil]

different demons all in all

one had rissen to be a dark lord, the other one was "just" a spider mastermind

[azure oriole]

This is the case, though before she merges with Olivia she's called the Aranea Imperatrix.
The Imperatrix was the Dark Lord of the Fourth Age. There are five Dark Lords - Davoth, and then the Dark Lords of the First, Second, Third, and Fourth Ages.

[azure oriole]

Yes, it was a dev stream thing.

[slow sigil]

they have worse naming conventions then the french monarchs damn

[charred trail]

I wonder what the spider Mastermind fight would've been like if it was made in eternal

[frigid cypress]

Sounded exactly like a Hugo thing to do lmao

[azure oriole]

Yeah Hugo Says shit is annoying.

[slow sigil]

ig 2016 but more movementy

[frigid cypress]

Just ignore it

[charred trail]

Wait how many dark lords? 5?? Do we know all of them or nah

[slow sigil]

barely usually

[frigid cypress]

nah

[charred trail]

so mastermind is a dark lord and so is davoth

[azure oriole]

We know only two definitively, maybe 3.

The Maledict may have been the Dark Lord of the Third Age.

[charred trail]

Doom 2 icon of sin probably is, but eternal icon prolly isn't

[azure oriole]

Its situation was very similar to the Imperatrix, in that it was a psionic demon that merged with Betruger.

[charred trail]

maledict?

[frigid cypress]

From Doom 3!? Multiverses confusing

[azure oriole]

The final boss of Doom 3: Resurrection of Evil

[charred trail]

How much lore is there

[frigid cypress]

too much

[charred trail]

The one game I don't play lmao

[azure oriole]

TLDR: Doom 3 is set in an alternate UAC in a different universe, but the Hell we fight is the same as the others.

[frigid cypress]

The demons are different species

[azure oriole]

Doom's multiverse is like a spiderweb. Hell and Urdak are at the center. There are many Earths, but there is only one Hell, and it has come into contact with multiple of them.

[charred trail]

I thought doom 3 was the first chronically but was from a different perspective like VFR

[azure oriole]

Yes. Hell has many demons and subgenuses of demons.

[azure oriole]

Nah. It can't take place during the earlier games because it has different UAC lore. Same with the modern Doom games.

[azure oriole]

That’s not what I said Jesus Christ

[slow sigil]

urdak so far is also more the only "special" world in this multiverse (not counting hell being the center), urdak is kinda "above" the multiverse

[frigid cypress]

Personally I think the 2016 Cyber Mancubus is underrated

[charred trail]

Is Jesus Canon

[charred trail]

VR headset lookin ass

[slow sigil]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/896461823786762300/1108830247366967316/image.png
you said it yourself, the power gap is so wide they can't hurt him

[frigid cypress]

My man is GAMING

[azure oriole]

I don’t really know if you’re choosing to argue in bad faith or if you’re just incapable of actually grasping the argument but nowhere did I say the doomslayer was invincible to everything but the icon

[charred trail]

He's on VR chat with other mancubus and he just gets shotgunned while in VR chat

[slow sigil]

the powergap between the icon and tyrant/barons is pretty darn huge so by YOUR OWN LOGIC, they can't hurt him

[frigid cypress]

Can we just end this argument? Its kinda going nowhere...

[charred trail]

Fr

[azure oriole]

Doomslayer can’t actually do anything to kill the icon without the crucible

[frigid cypress]

We each believe our own ideas lets just respect that

[charred trail]

Icon of sin technically has the biggest ass in the entire doom series

[azure oriole]

If this is a serious question, it's unclear. Christianity is canon to Doom as a false religion humanity made up from a game of telephone misinfo; it's made of misconstrued history from Urdak and Hell.
Doom's Earths are clearly different in its history compared to ours.

[slow sigil]

well i mean he can, that's just the codex not knowing you can kill them in other ways as we see in the graveyard of giants in 2016
and second of all, this isn't about doomguy hurting the other side???

[frigid cypress]

Scientists have proven that a person named Jesus did exist. Magic Bible stuff is not clear however @charred trail

[slow sigil]

jesus likely is The Destroyer but heavily twisted by time i'm guessing

[azure oriole]

The Slayer can kill Titans without a Crucible, it's just not worth the effort. Using the Crucible is much more preferable.

[charred trail]

So it's just bits of history of Urdak and Hell, and the rest is more of a guess by humans?

[azure oriole]

That’s a retcon if there isn’t another explanation. Titans are unkillable without the crucible (at least at doomslayers level of power)

[frigid cypress]

nah just a dude like irl

[azure oriole]

Yes. Humans are the descendants of Argenta.

[charred trail]

Oh great so I don't have to go through that boring level again

[slow sigil]

well yeah in that point, i was more referring to the messiah myth part

[charred trail]

That's pretty neat

[azure oriole]

It's always been this way. The Slayer killed the Great One without a Crucible in the Slayer's Testaments, and he killed the Icon in Doom 2 with a rocket launcher.

[frigid cypress]

it's just like real Christianity no different

[vagrant estuary]

Proof

[azure oriole]

The icon is clearly not dead?

[frigid cypress]

The slayers testament

[charred trail]

There's 2

[vagrant estuary]

@azure oriole your rpoof

[azure oriole]

It was put into a dormant state

[halcyon fog]

there is 1 he got ressurected

[charred trail]

Doom 2 icon is very dead

[frigid cypress]

THE SLAYERS TESTAMENT

[azure oriole]

At least that seems to be the implication

[azure oriole]

Slayer's Testaments and Doom 2

[vagrant estuary]

@azure oriole where does it say in the slayers testament

[halcyon fog]

Page 2321

[frigid cypress]

Go check yourself if you really care

[azure oriole]

In Doom 2 it 100% dies. The Deag Priests resurrected it with the heart of Valen's son.

[charred trail]

The eternal icon was made by the maykrs to get souls from earth and they used the heart of that one guys son to revive it

[charred trail]

You beat me to it

[slow sigil]

titans can be killed by normal means, we see so multiple times in the series. however, the way to do so is quite tiresome (blowing up their brain repeatably WHILE it is chained down and already heavily damaged judging from the gaping hole in his head), or completely destroying the titan to their bones.

the crucible is more just a "cheatcode" to kill a tyrant, comatosing them if the blade is locked in them

[azure oriole]

Then again, this seems to be a retcon of sorts

Which isn’t really new to doom

[slow sigil]

tag2 solved this via the unreliable narrator codex entries

[halcyon fog]

Icon is not dead. Putting a crucible into him doesnt permanently kill it it basically just paralyzes it until its taken out.

[vagrant estuary]

@azure oriole @azure oriole what are you guys talking about

[frigid cypress]

None could stand before the horde but the Doom Slayer. Despair spread before him like a plague, striking fear into the shadow-dwellers, driving them to deeper and darker pits. But from the depths of the abyss rose The Great One, a champion mightier than all who had come before. The Titan, of immeasurable power and ferocity. He strode upon the plain and faced the Doom Slayer, and a mighty battle was fought on the desolate plains. The Titan fought with the fury of the countless that had fallen at the Doom Slayer's hand, but there fell the Titan, and in his defeat the shadow horde were routed.

[slow sigil]

if it's in a codex entry you look at who said it and you can go off from there if it's really a trusted source

[azure oriole]

But from the depths of the abyss rose The Great One, a champion mightier than all who had come before. The Titan, of immeasurable power and ferocity. He strode upon the plain and faced the Doom Slayer, and a mighty battle was fought on the desolate plains. The Titan fought with the fury of the countless that had fallen at the Doom Slayer's hand, but there fell the Titan, and in his defeat the shadow horde were routed.

The Great One's skeleton is seen in the Titan's Realm. Titans don't rot when "killed" by the Crucible; they are put in stasis. Therefore he killed it a different way.

[vagrant estuary]

@azure oriole what are you talking about with Hans?

[azure oriole]

Doom lore.

[vagrant estuary]

on what topic

[frigid cypress]

Can the slayer survive 45 acp

[azure oriole]

Titans.

[azure oriole]

Lucina and Monologue want to hold on to the narrative that doomslayer is vulnerable to unarmed zombies

Don’t know why exactly

[vagrant estuary]

So what about the tutans

[slow sigil]

because he simply is?

[frigid cypress]

@vagrant estuary GOo back and read

[halcyon fog]

https://tenor.com/view/doom-retro-games-revenant-aaaaaa-gif-13261826

[vagrant estuary]

@azure oriole what are you taking about bro about titans this is good lote

[charred trail]

Titans are put in stasis, so that means that the icon can be brought back? What did earth do with the body is what I'm wondering

[azure oriole]

I actually ducked out of that discussion. I am already confident I'm correct, and you don't seem to be open to changing your mind. No point.

[vagrant estuary]

Lore

[halcyon fog]

the Irony

[azure oriole]

Every demon outside of Hell was vaporized when Doomguy killed Davoth, so the Icon's dead for good now.

[vagrant estuary]

Maybe the arc took the icons body?

[frigid cypress]

Why was the icon a head in doom 2?

[azure oriole]

I could apply this to you as well

I’m just baffled by the stupidity of the argument itself

[vagrant estuary]

@azure oriole bro pls

[slow sigil]

if you give a good inlore reason other then "he killed a tyrant!!! he can also take hits from tyrants!!" then sure we could change our minds

[azure oriole]

You couldn't, because I have actually written and done the research to justify my confidence in being correct.

[frigid cypress]

If you're not gonna change your mind, stop arguing. Debate is to win, if you don't care, then stop.

[vagrant estuary]

@slow sigil PLSS

[charred trail]

Ok so the icon is truly dead (for now) but during the entirety of the dlc he was just laying in stasis in New York City for like a month

[halcyon fog]

literally having an argument about Big John Romero Deer

[azure oriole]

I wrote the longest and most comprehensive guide on Doom's canon ever made. I already know I'm right.

[azure oriole]

Probably.

Why should I give a fuck

[vagrant estuary]

@azure oriole I'm on your side bro what are you debating about

[slow sigil]

well i mean technically remove the blade and he can walk again

[charred trail]

Ooh where can I read that

[azure oriole]

Genuinely why should I care that you wrote a extensively long Reddit post?

[frigid cypress]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Doom/comments/tfjpf7/at_dooms_gate_the_ultimate_guide_a_massive_200/

[slow sigil]

you obviously care by keep on rambling about "power levels"

[charred trail]

Yeah but doomguy broke the hilt, so it can't be taken out

[azure oriole]

Are you trying to convince me you’re stupid?

[slow sigil]

just put a metal bar in ez

[halcyon fog]

GUYS he named himself LOREMASTER... dont u get it? thats all the proof needed

[azure oriole]

Gameplay restrictions. In lore perhaps you could assume it needed to be restricted for whatever reason.

[frigid cypress]

Let's not be mean now

[azure oriole]

I didn't do that, smart guy. A mod did!

You consistently misinterpret my replies

[halcyon fog]

how much u pay him lmao

[slow sigil]

you already think that because you can't fathom being wrong about your beloved "power levels"

[azure oriole]

I’m open to discussion. You’re just arguing in extremely bad faith.

[azure oriole]

I never said you should care. I'm simply explaining why I know I am correct. You're getting very heated over this argument. Maybe you should take a break?

[vagrant estuary]

What is
Happening pls

[azure oriole]

None, they just like me. I'm very pleasant and easy to talk to.

[azure oriole]

Saying “I know I’m correct” isn’t a convincing argument?

[vagrant estuary]

What was about the Titans

[frigid cypress]

Let's all just play some Super Turbo Turkey Puncher 3 alright 🇹🇷 🦃

[halcyon fog]

oh yeah are you're a great person to debate against too thats clear

[slow sigil]

well showing ingame evidence isnt either to you soooo

can't really go more accurate then that

[azure oriole]

I don't care if I'm convincing you or not. Why should I? Tons of Doom fans are misinformed and confident in what they're misinformed about. You're one of many. No skin off my back.

[frigid cypress]

Never argue with a fool, for they will bring you down to their level

[azure oriole]

This is why I wear stilts beforehand.

[charred trail]

Didn't the ending for doom two say it had arms that thrashed around after it died?

[frigid cypress]

Get them double jump boots

[azure oriole]

Yes. Canonically the Icon was a giant humanoid during 2, we just only see its face.

[halcyon fog]

Its thrashing limbs being impossible to render in 1994

[charred trail]

I wonder what it could've looked like without those limitations

[charred trail]

sucks

[halcyon fog]

its a civvie reference

[frigid cypress]

Like the current one

[azure oriole]

Probably like how it is in Eternal yeah. In 2 the Icon is just wall textures. The Icon isn't even a defined entity - the entity in question is Romero's head.

[charred trail]

Not like the current one, the doom 2 icon was bone

[halcyon fog]

nah i think it would have looked close to brutal icon

[vagrant estuary]

this is bad

[charred trail]

A who

[vagrant estuary]

@azure oriole im on your side dude why are you so silet

[halcyon fog]

I just love how m0nologue is up on this high horse and arguing in a super narcissistic way but then tries to play it off all cool. 😂

[azure oriole]

Again writing a very long Reddit post does not make you immune to being wrong. nothing you’ve said here has made me more confident that you’re an infallible interpreter of the all mighty doom lore.

[azure oriole]

I am not humble when it comes to this topic, sorry.

Sit down

[vagrant estuary]

@azure oriole im with you dude what were you talking about

[halcyon fog]

there are, in fact, more important things in life than the lore of the icon of sin

[frigid cypress]

I think we should all just stop, and take a break.

[azure oriole]

You’re better off not getting involved lol

[charred trail]

Whoa why is everyone being mean now what the fuck?? Wha

[vagrant estuary]

But I love doom lore

[frigid cypress]

Go do anything else

[azure oriole]

Got more heated than usual because of overstimulus so I apologize about that

[frigid cypress]

Just :]

[charred trail]

😦

[slow sigil]

that because a tyrant can hurt doomguy, zombies (which are alsopowered by hell) shouldnt be able to damage doomguy at all if they hit him

[halcyon fog]

I say we settle this with a 1v1 Doom eternal deathmatch between Han's and m0nologue. Seems like the Doom way to do it

[azure oriole]

You're misunderstanding me. I do not care if you think I'm infallible or not. You are another Doom fan who misinterprets Doom and is convinced he knows everything about it. Users like that are a dime a dozen here, so I don't care to argue with you about the specific mechanics of if a zombie can injure the Slayer or not.

[vagrant estuary]

no were you talking about the Titans and icon

[azure oriole]

Argue with Luci about it. She'll humor you more.

[frigid cypress]

The demon is gonna die anyway, do the details matter?

[azure oriole]

You really do strike me as the type of person to write a essay length Reddit post and brag about it

[slow sigil]

oh that part
that was just that we have seen multiple times ingame that you can kill tyrants without crucibles

[frigid cypress]

Don't bring that word here please

[slow sigil]

considering it's the detail the argument was about, yes

[charred trail]

why

[halcyon fog]

I just realized m0nologue is literally the definition of "Source: Trust me Bro" 😂 but then adds on a bunch of insults and punching down ppl who he disagrees with

[frigid cypress]

it usually entails more arguments

[charred trail]

Ah

[slow sigil]

for the most part you can either see it ingame, or read it ingame

[vagrant estuary]

What was your arguments

[azure oriole]

I'm confused as to why you're calling it a Reddit post, though. The Reddit post is only a paragraph or two and a bullet list.

[charred trail]

What if mono actually just knows the lore?? Have you ever thought about that

[frigid cypress]

He hasn't opened it

[azure oriole]

The guide itself is a PDF.

[halcyon fog]

I dont even care about the argument. Whether he's right or wrong, you don't debate with someone by telling them they are less than you and that you're right because that's just the way it is and always will be

[azure oriole]

I'm not debating with Hans though.

[frigid cypress]

This is past debate. it's just arguing

[azure oriole]

That's where you're confused. I don't debate people by telling them I'm right. I decline debating them by telling them I'm right.

[halcyon fog]

just proving my points ngl

[azure oriole]

Your slimy arrogance is more pathetic than anything

[halcyon fog]

^

[azure oriole]

That's okay.

[charred trail]

Ok why is everyone mad at mono they just know lore?? I missed something?

[azure oriole]

Writing it in PDF form and then posting it on Reddit doesn’t make it any better or worse

You can think what you'd like, same with the zombie thing. There is no point in trying to convince you.

[frigid cypress]

I'm gonna go play Doom Eternal, I suggest yall play your Doom game of choice. I'm out

[slow sigil]

doom2 killing of the icon, graveyard of giants in 2016 where we see numerous dead titans, pretty sure there was a hell testament about him killing a titan post trapped in hell

[halcyon fog]

cuz hes completely convinced hes 100% correct and anyone who questions or disagrees, he just insults

[vagrant estuary]

Wiat what graveyard I haven't seen it

[azure oriole]

Monologue is pretty knowledgeable, I just think they’re wrong here and the way the argument has gone has been more irritating than anything

[charred trail]

What if he is 100% correct? What if he does know the lore? I've asked him multiple questions and he hasn't insulted me?

[azure oriole]

That's fair.

[slow sigil]

ok fumbled the name, it was the level Necropolis

[vagrant estuary]

Do you have an image?

[azure oriole]

I’ll return to this later I got something else to do

[azure oriole]

To specify, I've tried to give sources wherever I can, and the guide I wrote also provides sources.
Happy to provide sources for any claims I make.

[halcyon fog]

because he hasn't provided any proof that hes the all knowing master other than just saying that he is and that we are some simple minded commoner doom fans who dont know it like he does. Just some hugely narcissistic behavior is all

[young mango]

See this is what I mean asshole

[slow sigil]

none at hand rn and i dont want to go through a youtube video just for the 1 moment he walks past it

[halcyon fog]

ok now we got 2 arguments goin on

[young mango]

https://youtu.be/l5bFIwErSEA

By the way noodle I did the same thing but faster, complain about this one

[charred trail]

Idk man

[azure oriole]

The guide I wrote is currently the most comprehensive compiled source for Doom info. I go out of my way to mark any speculation. The only runner-ups are the Doom wikis, which are user-run and often allow misinformation to go by without anyone fact-checking.
I don't think I'm infallible. When I said I know I'm correct, I meant specifically about this topic, being the zombie shit.

[slow sigil]

the doom wiki with all codex entries:

[azure oriole]

I have been wrong on Doom shit before, plenty of times, and I stopped being wrong by researching the Codex entries and compiling the information into a source that's much more easily readable.

[azure oriole]

The Codex entries are frustratingly written and tend to contradict each other, or at least imply contradictions. It's annoying. I don't fault anyone for reading them and getting a headache.

[slow sigil]

solution: lore is bad, unreliably narrator

[azure oriole]

[charred trail]

Gawdamn, the shield is useless, and also nice punch cancels or whatever they're called

[halcyon fog]

Sorry but I just don't trust any source who written by a dude who completely shuts down all critics or disagreements. Just because I made a documentary on africa, doesn't mean I'm an expert on africa and anyone who thinks differently is automatically wrong and should be told that they aren't informed they just think they are

[slow sigil]

alr, show your ingame source in that case

[azure oriole]

Huh? I don't write the sources. I cite the sources.

[halcyon fog]

I dont have any, I don't care ab the argument and am not picking sides. m0no may be right for all I know. Im just pointing out hes bein a poor sport and shouldn't act like everyone else is wrong just cuz they have a different opinion

[slow sigil]

it's not really an opinion though

[halcyon fog]

you said you wrote a guide like 1 minute ago.... and literally called it a "source"

[azure oriole]

Yes, but the guide just summarizes.

[slow sigil]

it's shown ingame, at that point it's either a fact, or a uninformed piece of misinformation

[azure oriole]

I'm not making shit up in the guide. I'm citing the sources and summarizing what happened.
I don't shut down critics. I shut down people who think they know everything but spout misinformation and insult people. Hans said shit that was easily disprovable by quickly looking at the Codex, like "the Slayer's suit is indestructible to conventional weapons!!!!!", yet he calls Luci a "pigeon" and talks to them like they're a child for partaking in a circular argument he had just as much blame in.

[slow sigil]

you can't just say "davoth is actually vega" and write it off as a "difference of opinion"

[young mango]

No i won’t get over it until you realize how much of a dick you are man.

[azure oriole]

If you are going to insult people and act pretentious like Hans is, you'd better at least make sure you know what you're talking about.

[frigid cypress]

Did he actually say that?

[jolly kernel]

how much hp Tyrants have again?

[young mango]

10000

[frigid cypress]

google

[halcyon fog]

omg you guys just are not getting it. THE CONTENTS OF THE ARGUMENT are not what Im talking about. Just saying that m0no can say that he thinks that statement is wrong without saying some egomaniacal shit like "you guys are just a dime a dozen just some doom fans who think they know what they're talking about"

[jolly kernel]

thanks

[slow sigil]

no that was a hyperbolic (i think?) example

[frigid cypress]

Thank Davoth...phew

[halcyon fog]

big bois

[glossy forum]

Bruh

[charred trail]

tank

[glossy forum]

Noodle u need help dude

[azure oriole]

Doom fans who spout misinformation are objectively a dime a dozen though. Misinformation is a huge problem in this fandom.

[slow sigil]

if you stick around here long enough you start to see lots of people think they are correct for watching people like midnight, and then being falsely informed and writing that off as a fact

[azure oriole]

That's why I wrote the damn guide - because there are almost no easily-readable sources for Doom lore. The Codexes are poorly written and can't be reconciled without having to make a few leaps of logic; the Doom wiki is unreliable, and Hugo Martin himself makes statements on the story that seemingly contradict the story itself.

[halcyon fog]

its literally a video game that has a stupid corny 80s tribute story with literally hundreds of plot holes. It just aint that deep bro

[slow sigil]

it's not that deep but people still stare into the wrong puddle

[glossy warren]

does anyone know the name of the leviathan ships in immora

[glossy warren]

the long ones with the tentacles

[slow sigil]

yeah but then dont attack people that are actually correct for.... being correct?

[azure oriole]

"It just ain't that deep bro" has always been a nothingburger of a statement, and it always will be. It objectively has a story, and it objectively has writers and developers who care about that story, and it objectively has fans who also care about that story.
You, as the person consuming fiction, are the one who decides how "deep" a story is.

[halcyon fog]

omg because every puddle is the wrong puddle. You cant get literally ANGRY at another dude for getting the story confused in a game that has the most nonsense story ever

[slow sigil]

they may care but whoever pushed the tag2 release date didnt

it may be fictional but that doesnt make fanfic real

[halcyon fog]

what do you think the writers cared about more: Writing a fun story that was corny and a tribute to the culture they loved, or was it writing a bulletproof bible for people like you

[slow sigil]

otherwise the harry potter story will be..... very controversial with all the students hitting on teachers

[azure oriole]

When did I say they cared about the latter?

[slow sigil]

wait no but then that smash bros fanfic peace is canon NOOOOOO

[azure oriole]

I am well aware they didn't care about making the lore 100% cohesive and able to be gleaned without contradictions. That's why I wrote the damn guide.

[glossy warren]

😭

[halcyon fog]

cuz you obviously care so much about the purity of the lore that anytime someone gets it wrong you shame them into leaving

[azure oriole]

If Hans feels shamed, that's on him. Next time, he can be more polite to other people, or at least make sure he knows what he's talking about before acting like a dick.

I don't shame people who are wrong. I've been very polite and willing to help people who are wrong all the time. I shame people who act shitty to others yet think they know everything.

[slow sigil]

you can same the same thing to the other side i atleast know i'm correct via ingame examples and codex entries others usually lack, and if it's a difference in understanding it a decent conversation can definitely be made from it

[glossy warren]

just another day in the Doom discord server

[halcyon fog]

I have observed nothing but you insulting Han's and others because they aren't super informed like you. After all, YOU wrote a guide so they should just listen and submit cuz at the end of the day, they didnt write a guide

[glossy forum]

Yup people arguing about lore and shit

[young mango]

I read this in your voice😭

[azure oriole]

I haven't insulted anyone for not being super informed. Doom's story is written poorly. I do not blame anyone for not being informed. I blame people for being rude to others.

[slow sigil]

ingame evidence?

[azure oriole]

I do not like people who think they know everything about this series, spout misinformation, and act pretentious when people challenge them on said misinformation.. This fanbase has enough people like that.

[azure oriole]

Lol

[halcyon fog]

he legit said that the codex has missing pieces so he summarizes and fills in the gaps. Seems to be lacking "ingame evidence" if you ask me

[azure oriole]

Projection much?

[slow sigil]

you can't really interpret a "5" into a "6" unless you missed something

[halcyon fog]

https://tenor.com/view/pointing-that-is-correct-thats-right-good-job-way-to-go-gif-18723702

[azure oriole]

Now, Hans apologized for acting like a dick, and that's cool. If I came off like a dick, then I apologize for that as well. But ultimately it doesn't change that there is misinformation in this franchise's fanbase, and when you actually research the damn Codex entries, you tend to have a better understanding of what's going on than some others do.

[glossy warren]

y'all it's just a silly game about a floridan man going into hell because demons killed his bunny 😭 😭 ain't need to be a whole damn argument about t he lore

[slow sigil]

"vega's favourite icecream flavour is chocolate"
"this obviously must mean his favourite icecream falvour was strawberries!!!! wait i'm wrong?? uhhhh no i'm not i simply interpret it differently!!!"

[glossy warren]

where else would he come from

[glossy forum]

No he's from ohio

[azure oriole]

If I see misinformation I'll correct it, and if the misinformed people act pretentious because they are confident in their misinformation, then I'm not gonna bother debating them, and I'm not gonna feel bad for being confident in my own knowledge of the subject.

[glossy warren]

he's too angry to be canadian

[halcyon fog]

I thought he was Texan. I am correct dont worry I wrote a guide on how to travel from Texas to Mt. Erberus

[azure oriole]

I like to think he's Texan, too.

[glossy warren]

texan people worship guns but floridans are a whole different breed

[halcyon fog]

Brampton

[azure oriole]

Look, the analogy I’d make for my argument is this: you can slap a grizzly bear. Irritate it maybe. Give it a little boo-boo. You aren’t capable of killing it with your bare hands. At most angering it enough that it pisses off.

[slow sigil]

if they are honest about making it up and arent dicks about it with it being infact 100% true then sure

[halcyon fog]

Nobody has seen evidence that anyone was a dick but m0no

[azure oriole]

I’d argue a human and a bear are still a closer comparison than doomguy is to your average zombie.

[azure oriole]

A polite counter-argument: if the bear stands still and doesn't fight me back, I could absolutely punch it to death.
I don't think anyone here was saying a zombie could take the Slayer in a fair fight. Just that it is capable of hurting him.

[slow sigil]

yeah that was the argument, i repeated it multiple times aswell

[azure oriole]

You would likely break your own hand before actually doing any meaningful damage to the bear.

[azure oriole]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1040804498588831834/1108843012773126174/image.png

Yeah I’m not denying I was an asshole

[azure oriole]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1040804498588831834/1108843130901512212/image.png

[slow sigil]

you can hit with your palms

surprisingly harder then you would expect

[azure oriole]

Gonna be honest, my beef is more with Jake than it is you. You apologized, it's whatever.

[halcyon fog]

I mean the pigeon thing sure but that doesnt prove anything

[azure oriole]

You’re going to basically be doing nothing at that point lol

I don't even really care about the zombie thing. My point is simply that pretentious shit has been in the entire argument, not just from me.

[slow sigil]

you're using the exact same muscles as your arms, just a bit of a wide area so if you hit the good spots it's still pretty good

[azure oriole]

My analogy isn’t perfect anyhow because I’d still say a human and bear are more relative to each other than a zombie and doomslayer

[halcyon fog]

I am simply defending the art of debate. My only issue is with how you are arguing. Super narcissistic and punching down on ppl

[azure oriole]

Like I said before- I wasn't debating. I was exiting the debate and explaining why I was.

Just completely different leagues of power there. Maybe if DoomGuy’s was armorless? With it they might as well be hitting solid titanium. Over and over.

This is a separate debate. Keep up!

[azure oriole]

I am confident that I know what I'm talking about with this series. I put in the research for this, the guys at id read the dumb guide. You don't have to be! But I am, so that's why I'm not always gonna debate everything.

[halcyon fog]

ok thats not actually what you are doing though. You're trying to shut people down and then make a quick exit. I also know how to make people mad in a debate and going the "Im not trying to argue with you, I am trying to teach you" route is the oldest trick in the book. Don't bullshit a bullshitter

[azure oriole]

Why would I exit? I'm exiting the debate, not the discussion as a whole.

And I am not aiming to make anyone mad. I have better things to do than that.

[halcyon fog]

so instead of explaining, you prefer to just say that you are correct and then not talk about the topic again

[azure oriole]

I did explain. The explanation was ignored. Therefore, I did not feel like explaining further.

All I exited was, specifically, the debate about the silly zombie thing. That doesn't mean I don't want discuss other things in this channel, or keep up with a separate discussion.

If I am making anyone mad, that's unintentional and I'm sorry. I'm not trying to make anyone mad, lol. If you guys want to believe I am, then fine.

[azure oriole]

The armor thing I'll give you. My point is moreso that I think it's clear the zombies are stronger than normal humans because of the whole hell energy thing.

Man, the root of the zombie argument wasn't even the zombies. The point was the simple statement that "I think the Slayer could feasibly be killed by the vast majority of Eternal's roster, and it just doesn't happen because he's always one step ahead of them".

The point is to rephrase the whole Slayer power thing away from "The Slayer's made of god-material and can't be touched" and closer to "the Slayer outsmarts and outmatches his enemies, so they can't kill him". A common misconception with this series is fans overtrumping the Slayer's power and what he can do, which I think does a disservice to his character.

The Slayer himself isn't a Primeval, he's just using the powers of one. "You're a usurper."

The only true Primeval we've seen in Doom is Davoth.

[slow sigil]

that's something hugo said, doesnt seem to be the case. and even if ti's the case you can just.... make primevals so it doesnt matter much then

[azure oriole]

Hugo's implied Doomguy may be one, but you know how fucking Hugo is.

The man is very flighty with his answers.

[halcyon fog]

Totally underrated but thats like the eternal proof that brains beats muscle. Humans are physically like the absolute worst species ever made. Not strong, not fast, not big enough to intimidate or small enough to hide, cant camouflage, nails arent strong enough to climb or cut. Yet, we are the apex predator. Totally unrelated but I always though it was cool

[azure oriole]

A fictional universe still has laws and limitations that are connected with it. As a general rule you shouldn't assume a retcon if there's an easier or more sensible limitation.

[slow sigil]

well i mean we are more staminable then many other animals, so that's also a big reason

like if you're hunting a deer, that deer will tire out relatively fast, compared to human hunters who would just keep tracking it and not tire out

[azure oriole]

An example of this - just because Hugo says Doomguy is actually a robot wearing latex skin, doesn't mean that's canon. Hugo makes up answers and then forgets them almost immediately.
If the game itself reveals this is to be the case, that's when you should take it seriously.

[slow sigil]

non human

[slow sigil]

what if hugo puts himself, like fullon himself as a character, ingame though

[halcyon fog]

bro. When the Marauder calls him a Userper, they dont call him that cuz primeval, they call him that cuz he wasnt of sentinel blood but rose in their ranks. How does the self-assured doom lore master not get that

[azure oriole]

https://tenor.com/view/doom-doom-eternal-glory-kill-doom-glory-kill-doom-eternal-zombie-gif-18694440

[azure oriole]

I'm not saying that's why the Marauder calls him that, calm down. I'm bringing up this line of dialogue because it's a common theme with the Slayer.

[halcyon fog]

thats not because we have better stamina, our stamina is terrible, its because we can take our time cuz we know how to track

[slow sigil]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/896461823786762300/1108846577663086732/image.png

[azure oriole]

The Marauder considers him a usurper for rising the Sentinel ranks despite being an outsider. The Khan Maykr is still attached to the fact that he used to be mortal and uses that against him. And TAG2 reveals his powers were technically stolen from Davoth himself. The Slayer, overall, is a usurper.

The zombie debate just stemmed from trying to explain that there is a disconnect between lore and gameplay. What occurs in gameplay is not necessarily representative of what happens in lore and vice versa. Used that as an example and it spiraled from there.

[slow sigil]

ig it falls under endurance, wrong words used

[azure oriole]

There is a disconnect between lore and gameplay, but many fans assume that disconnect to be a hundred miles wide, and that sentiment irritates me a bit. The disconnect is much smaller than that and I do not think every single thing in the gameplay should be considered completely irrelevant to the lore.

[halcyon fog]

that seems super incorrect I mean maybe at a jogging pace we can go longer but a human cannot out sprint most mammals unless of course they are vastly bigger then that might change things

[slow sigil]

yeah not at top speed

[halcyon fog]

yeah he is but nobody calls him a Usurper in that context so don't use that dialogue as the proof

[azure oriole]

I have seen fans try to argue the Slayer is 100% completely immortal and cannot be killed, and will say that the fact he can die in 2016 and Eternal's gameplay is "just gameplay, not canon, lore and gameplay are different." That is a silly conclusion to make, so it kinda irritates me a bit.

[azure oriole]

I wasn't using it as proof, lol. I brought up the dialogue because it is thematically relevant to this plotline.

[halcyon fog]

it is not

you cant say "oh hes a usurper because ......." and then use dialogue when hes called a usurper for different reasons

[azure oriole]

I do not see every single thing in this as proof for lore and a debate. I think the story actually wants to say something regarding the Slayer's character, and the fact that he's an outsider to literally every faction in the modern games is part of that.

[slow sigil]

yeah but it being fun doesnt make it true

[azure oriole]

In that specific instance I wasn't talking about ~the looore~. I was talking about character writing - which is something equally, if not more important. I think the Slayer's fairly well-written for being a silent protagonist, so I like talking about him.

I’m not in the “he literally can’t die” camp but I don’t think he deserves to get as lowballed as he is by some people

[slow sigil]

i feel like you have this stuck in your head because you desperately want your weird fanfic fetish stuff to be canon or something

[halcyon fog]

I am cool with big angry dope who gets super strength and speed from Sammy boy. I dont like the "he cant die" argument and I also don't like in the game when Elena is like oh hes the almighty slayer please save us Shotgun Jesus

[azure oriole]

It being fiction does not change the fact that the story shows evidence that you're wrong. Fictional stories have internal logic to them.
If you want to make up bullshit about the story because it seems fun, be my guest. But nobody is obligated to pay that any mind, and people will call you incorrect if you're incorrect.

His best feats put him way beyond “Captain America tier” or whatever you want to call it.

[slow sigil]

the ingame codex entries and sometimes environmental showings

[halcyon fog]

I mean cap is also kina lame so

[azure oriole]

Doomslayers main power is in his durability, endurance, and stamina.

His attack potency is far lower but he can still contend with heavy hitting demons

[azure oriole]

This is why I think powerscaling shit based on "feats" is never going to be truly reliable.
Consider: if Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson challenges me to a wrestling match, and I respond by shooting him in the head ten times with a handgun - did I just beat him in a fight? Can I add "defeated The Rock" to my list of feats? Does this mean that I am a pro wrestler?

[halcyon fog]

you cannot interoperate environmental story telling and "historic-journal style" codex entries and then parade that your interpretations are cut and dry fact

[azure oriole]

Similarly, the Icon of Sin is a walking apocalypse. It's by far the worst and most presently-dangerous threat in the Doom canon. The Slayer defeated it - does that mean he is stronger than the Icon? Or does that mean he just knew how to properly fight it? The Icon was fully capable of squishing the Slayer into a meat pancake. It just failed.