doom-eternal

[patent stream]

🤨

[crimson forge]

based

[azure oriole]

Snapmap in 2016 never interested me after Eternal came out, personally. I want it for Eternal.

[patent stream]

2016 also has a drastically larger and filled multiplayer

[primal relic]

I feel like Maggots could make for interesting fodder enemies.

• unlike Imps that just jump and stick to a wall, Maggots actively crawl on them for evasion
• two heads; headshot both for the kill. One missing head pisses it off
• dangerous close-quarters combat with 3 limbs and impaling tongues

[azure oriole]

I agree. I'm talking more about singleplayer.

[patent stream]

And arguably significantly better mp at that

[strange gale]

more content through snapmap yes, but most of it isn't good

[ruby epoch]

Whats the difficulty diffrence between insane and ultranightmare

[patent stream]

Idk insane doesn’t exist

[foggy stratus]

having a way for users to create content doesn't qualify as having "more content"

[patent stream]

True I rather get 1 master level every 6 months

[crimson forge]

things like Minecraft and OG Doom would be the most content rich games on the planet but that's not the case cause those are community created

[azure oriole]

Dusk is better than all of these though, BTW.

[patent stream]

I do appreciate eternals dlc ( while the story premise imo was awful)
I liked the dlc went with insane environmental variety

[azure oriole]

Also got into Ultrakill recently, it's pretty good.

[primal relic]

How’s Prodeus if you’ve played it?

[foggy stratus]

when talking about how much content a game has, it should always be looked at with the game itself, not what people make for it, and in that regard, eternal has way more to offer than 2016

[patent stream]

In that regard 2016 still has more content tho

[foggy stratus]

no it doesn't

[patent stream]

The multiplayer in 2016 is leaps and bounds larger than battlemode

[foggy stratus]

really isn't

[patent stream]

Yes it really is

[primal relic]

The multiplayer for both games is dead. Can’t quite use that content if nobody is in a lobby for 30 minutes at a time

[azure oriole]

It's okay. The game's fun as hell and I appreciate that, but honestly I really wasn't impressed with the story mode. Maybe it's just me, but I need an interesting premise for a single-player campaign and some kind of plot thread to go off of, and it doesn't have that.
If you just want to shoot monsters for 6 hours or so, you'll like it.

[crimson forge]

ok but weren't you playing with like quadruple the players of battlemode at minimum

[ruby epoch]

whats the diffrence between nightmare and ultra nightmare

[patent stream]

Battlemode has like 4 maps and 5 demons

2016 mp had like 12 maps
Like 8 gamemodes
Like 6 demons
Numerous new weapons
And an off,ine mode with bots

[bleak plaza]

i just played doom eternal it was very fun 😼

[foggy stratus]

ultra nightmare is one life

you have to beat the game on nightmare difficulty without dying once

[ruby epoch]

so nothing changes exept that really

[azure oriole]

Yes.

[foggy stratus]

extra lives are also disabled, for obvious reasons

[azure oriole]

Both are boring. I prefer UV as the optimal Eternal difficulty.

[foggy stratus]

they're replaced with armor pickups

[ruby epoch]

is it just tougher enemies?

[crimson forge]

I think Hurt Me Plenty is a great difficulty

[azure oriole]

Enemies don't change with difficulty. All that changes is the amount of damage you take. (and one life on Ultra Nightmare)

[primal relic]

As the difficulties go up I believe speed, accuracy, and damage go up

[patent stream]

UV is a good area where you don’t have to burst a blood cell keeping up with everything. While still being engaging.

I do do do appreciate eternal not changing enemy count for difficulties. Only enemy reactions

[foggy stratus]

and how much they attack

[azure oriole]

That too.

Man I'm excited to replay 3 eventually. Game is awesome.

[patent stream]

Look into the phobos mod when you can if you haven’t

[foggy stratus]

the good thing is you don't do any less damage on higher difficulties, a blood punch+ssg (in either order) will always put a cyber mancubus into GK assuming you dont beef the shot, on any difficulty

[primal relic]

I would’ve liked for enemies to gain new attacks on higher difficulties. Maybe for example the Marauder never calls out his dog unless it’s Hurt Me Plenty or higher?

[crimson forge]

I mean the Marauder only calls the wolf if you shoot his shield too much

[slow sigil]

and how many can attack at once and how often they attack

[azure oriole]

Yeah

[ruby epoch]

So the demons always spawn the same?

[primal relic]

Right I’m aware

[azure oriole]

I love the enemy count thing with OG Doom. Wouldn't fit this, though.

[slow sigil]

or if other rando demons shoot it....

[foggy stratus]

I really dont think thats actually true because ive had several times where they call the wolf and I haven't even fired at them yet

[azure oriole]

Yes. They never change the amount of demons.

[patent stream]

I HATE games that think higher difficulty = make enemies bullet sponges = fun

I hate it. No I don’t think more hp = hard I think it’s annoying. So I’m happy eternal doesn’t do it

[crimson forge]

And yeah I think it would be cool if the marauder was more complex to fight

[ruby epoch]

So theres never diffrent demons spawning like Earlier in the game seen later

[azure oriole]

Never

[crimson forge]

Every source I can find says the wolf spawn isn't random

[foggy stratus]

yeah, another good way is to increase enemy and player damage, so to make it harder combat is just sped up

[primal relic]

Have you seen those scrapped moves that the Marauder had where he could combo you with his axe?

[crimson forge]

They only do it while they have their shield up, and they only have it up when you're shooting at them while they're not vulnerable

[crimson forge]

I haven't actually, I meant like he'd fight a little more like the Dark Lord in the sense that not every axe attack would be an opening

[azure oriole]

That's because they shield other enemy attacks, and those attacks can trigger the wolf.

[crimson forge]

Ah ok

[ruby epoch]

im barely dying in normal mode now

[primal relic]

That’s essentially what those cut moves were. They were smaller axe swings like uppercuts or simple slashes

[ruby epoch]

next im gonna have to Start Nightnare bc i want to push myself to combo stuff

[crimson forge]

That sounds cool but I guess I get why they didn't include it

[primal relic]

I would’ve preferred for the complexity to come with the Dark Lord

[ruby epoch]

i also have a bad habit trying to look at my wheel seeing what ammos i have

[primal relic]

Marauders are already fine enough in my opinion

[strange gale]

various forms of deternal jank can stop this from staggering a cmanc, even if you do everything correctly

[azure oriole]

I still don't really mind Dark Lord

ive never used the Wheel to scroll through weapons

[primal relic]

I’m fine with his story. I hate his bossfight

[ruby epoch]

My bad habits: Forgetting grenades exist, Forgetting Fire, forgetting to combo wepons

[azure oriole]

I don't really mind his boss fight either. It's cool.

[crimson forge]

I died like ten times on the Samur boss fight, didn't die once on the Dark Lord, came close a few times, but never death

[foggy stratus]

the only times it hasn't worked for me is simply because I messed it up, missed blood punch, ssg didnt fully connect, etc

[azure oriole]

the only boss ive actually sweat my ass off was trying Ultra nightmare on the icon of sin

New Doom boss fight tier list.
S: Spider Mastermind, Icon of Sin, Davoth
A: Cyberdemon, Maledict, Gladiator
B: Sabaoth, Khan Maykr, Guardian
C: Hell Guards, Seraphim, Mightiest Warrior
D: Vagary, Hell Hunters, Trial of Maligog

[ruby epoch]

i hope i learn good enough

[crimson forge]

does Kalibas the Sightless Judge count

[azure oriole]

IMO, no.

[primal relic]

The dark lord of Hell, ruler of all things grimy and disgusting, the SLAYER’S EQUAL, is taken down in a mech suit three times the size of the slayer while the slayer hasn’t broken a sweat

[ruby epoch]

i beleive in myself

Any combos anyone wants to tell me to counter enemies

[azure oriole]

Nah bro he hasnt completed doom in ultra nightmare

[azure oriole]

I mean thematically that all makes sense.

[crimson forge]

"this universe explicitly acknowledges your godlike power by making the only credible threat to your your identical twin with red eyes in a Gundam"

[azure oriole]

Hes been playin on Hurt me plenty

[strange gale]

the game's collision geometry, which you cannot see and therefore can't account for without spending a comical number of hours on testing, is able to swallow up bp damage even if the impact and splash damage visually connect flawlessly

[primal relic]

Even without his full power he should still at least be some challenge for the Slayer, right?

[azure oriole]

to the average Game journalist

[azure oriole]

I've said this before and I get it may seem like copium shit or whatever, but my genuine answer is "probably not".

[ruby epoch]

Any minimum requirements to beat ultra nightmare?

can i just run alot lol

[azure oriole]

I do not believe Davoth is or was intended to be the Slayer's most dangerous physical threat, and I don't see their battle as the climax of Eternal or the most high-stakes part of its story when it comes to the battle itself.

i would like to see him start weapon swapping and dashing like mad man

[primal relic]

Eh, wasn’t it stated there was more than one dark lord and a ruler that’s above that title?

[azure oriole]

Ultrakill does it well where u fight v2

[crimson forge]

Postal Brain Damaged has a similar boss fight as its final act

[primal relic]

Dashing? yes. Weapon swapping? I don’t see the Dark Lord as the type to use guns

[ruby epoch]

Hello?

[azure oriole]

Davoth is the Dark Lord. He's the big bad of Hell - its ruler and the first being in Jekkad. There are four other Dark Lords who ruled in his stead after his life sphere shit, but he has always been the overarching villain.

[azure oriole]

considering hes basically you id imagine he’d fight like u ig

[crimson forge]

He takes your form, he isn't really you

[azure oriole]

basically what im sayin

But that doesn't make him the most powerful. He isn't even the strongest boss in Doom canonically - your fight with him is less "THIS IS THE FIGHT OF YOUR LIFE!!!!" and more "Well, not much else to do but clean up this mess."

ig he isnt rlly a challenge.

[primal relic]

He was pictured as the Slayer before he was conjured into physical form?

[ruby epoch]

He just tries to gain the strongest power there is which is the doom guy but he sapped most of his power at that point

[azure oriole]

he’s only taken the physical form of you that doesnt mean mentally he thinks like you

[primal relic]

I guess that’s another way of seeing things

[azure oriole]

No, Bali is right here.

[foggy stratus]

the fight is notable because of its importance to the universe, not because its the hardest fight for the slayer

[azure oriole]

As Hugo said, "Davoth doesn't look like Doomguy; Doomguy looks like Davoth".

[crimson forge]

Oh well thats interesting

[foggy stratus]

yeah davoth didnt take his form, hes always looked like that

[azure oriole]

Davoth has always looked this way. We don't know why they look identical yet.

Its prob some multiversal mumbo jumbo where we find out fortnite is canon

[foggy stratus]

something about them both being primeval, no idea what that means

[azure oriole]

fun fact in fortnite lore theres technically multiple doom guys

[crimson forge]

Everything is canon to fortnite, that doesn't mean fortnite is canon to everything

[foggy stratus]

it will be

[azure oriole]

its cannon to irl when we all die dw

[ruby epoch]

fortnite actually was in the real marval comics

[azure oriole]

dc too.

[ruby epoch]

no collab litterally in THE COMICS

[azure oriole]

A Primeval is basically Doom's equivalent of a demigod; an immensely powerful being assigned as the first being and most powerful of any given dimension. The only confirmed Primeval we see on-screen is Davoth, the Primeval of Hell.
Hugo has implied Doomguy may himself be a Primeval, either born one or become one due to the Divinity Machine. It's unclear.

[crimson forge]

That's what threw me off, I knew it couldn't be a coincidence that they look entirely alike and having seen the Slayer first I figured Davoth musta taken his form

[ruby epoch]

Wait

[azure oriole]

Hugo's messages imply Doomguy may have been "born" like this; destined for ultimate power. It's not clear and you shouldn't take his word as fact, since he seems to be a bit flighty and contradictory to the info actually ingame.

[foggy stratus]

doomguy looked like davoth before he got his godlike powers so there is a connection there already

[ruby epoch]

What if doomguy and Devioth both had the same mother

[foggy stratus]

dont think davoth had a mother

[ruby epoch]

and thier twins

[crimson forge]

Davoth was the original being

[azure oriole]

Davoth has a creator. We don't know who. Might be Shub

[foggy stratus]

didn't they say someone created davoth

[crimson forge]

Fr the greatest shame was that we didn't see Davoth's ass so we knew what kind of cake the slayer had

[ruby epoch]

they might be actual twins at this point

[azure oriole]

Yes. The Mysterious Voice we hear in Urdak

the shotgun blast covered his small wheener

[foggy stratus]

if so, perhaps that creator orchestrated the creation of doomguy as well to eventually defeat davoth, for unknown reasons

[primal relic]

I thought that was Davoth

[slow sigil]

fun fact: there is no connection

[crimson forge]

I thought that was the Father

[slow sigil]

they look alike because they just so happened to look alike

[foggy stratus]

vega is the father

[azure oriole]

that was Obama

[slow sigil]

literally no reason for it

[azure oriole]

Nah, it's not. It's whatever made him.

[azure oriole]

thought it was just in AI form in order to exist without a physical form

ig its still technically him idk

[foggy stratus]

whoever that was, the death of the khan maykr clearly messed with their plans cause they weren't happy about it

[azure oriole]

It wasn't the Father, either. VEGA is the Father's consciousness, or a copy of it, taken from Urdak. The Father is not present in Urdak until the level itself, and he wanted the Khan dead.

[dusk copper]

Bruh this is how far the rabbit hole takes you

[crimson forge]

I thought Samur wanted the khan dead

[azure oriole]

The Khan was a sycophantic psychopath whose plans and beliefs contradicted the Father's benevolence. He wouldn't stand for it, and its possible her wretched bullshit may be why he had Samur take him from Urdak.

[foggy stratus]

the father is essentially split in 2, the life sphere holding his "essence" that his body can be recreated from, and vega, his consciousness

[azure oriole]

when the guy who writes the lore is like on steroids

[dusk copper]

Fr

[slow sigil]

more like on amnesia

[crimson forge]

"we all know the story exists as a contrivance because the environmental designer went fucking ballistic"

[foggy stratus]

im very certain this is why the dark lords sphere speaks, and the fathers doesn't

the dark lords sphere has his consciousness as well, but the fathers, theres nobody home in there, no mind at all, because its in vega

[azure oriole]

not sayin doom lore is terrible. its more so a fan fiction of cool shit but doesnt need to make sense

which yk if thats the case. fine as long as i see cool shit

Doom lore is raw as fuck. You just have to accept it for what it is.

cause doom guy on a dragon is cool af

[primal relic]

it's stated that Doomguy harnessed more strength the more he kills, right? Well, when Doomguy killed Davoth, did he absorb that monumental power, thus causing him to pass out, or did he lose his power?

[crimson forge]

Doom 1993 lore vs Doom Eternal Lore

[azure oriole]

like i aint complaining. If Duke nukem and a hooker appeared killin demons id say hell ya

[azure oriole]

He lost his power.

[foggy stratus]

theres a lot of stuff in doom lore that was made because its fuckin awesome

doomguy worked with a race of ancient space warriors? hell yeah thats cool, explain it later

[azure oriole]

That's kind of a misconception; what it is, is Doomguy absorbs health from enemies because the Praetor suit saps Argent Energy from the demons/Maykrs he kills. That's the lore reason for this gameplay convention.

[crimson forge]

The divinity machine was made with a piece of Davoth, and Davoth's death rendered him comatose

[azure oriole]

Since he's absorbing Argent Energy, i.e. the souls of Hell's victims, one could perhaps argue Hell's victims have attained vengeance, as they now flow through the body of the only thing Hell fears.

[foggy stratus]

doomguy lost his godlike powers from the divinity machine after davoths defeat, as that power came from him, he then passes out due to exhaustion, hes still alive

[primal relic]

do you think the Eons worth of Argent Energy he has in his suit could make up for his lost strength? I doubt that's disappearing anytime soon

[azure oriole]

The Argent just keeps him alive and healthy, since Hell attacks are fucked up.

If the Slayer comes back he won't be as strong as he is in Eternal unless there's a new plot contrivance they'll make up, which, well, that is a possibility.

[crimson forge]

I figured his new Eternal suit didn't run on Argent, with him destroying the last known form of Argent Energy on Earth aside from the Crucibles, and the fact he uses Wraith-based sentinel crystals instead of Argent Cells like in 2016

[azure oriole]

gfuel

[foggy stratus]

yeah people know doomguy is strong, but knowing how tough demons actually are makes you realize hes really strong

[azure oriole]

Argent runs through the veins of the demons. The suit saps it from them.

rip and tear

Hell is still capable of producing Argent Energy, and is doing so during the events of Eternal.

[foggy stratus]

what do you guys think he does with the cyrstals to "apply" the upgrade, does he eat them like rock candy

[crimson forge]

Thought Hell energy was just tormented souls, they combined it with Wraith energy in argent factories to actually make it

[ruby epoch]

maybe just absorbs it like the ball upgrade thingy

[azure oriole]

no bro. Sniff

[primal relic]

I like to think that the demons evolved to match Doomguy's arsenal from the older games, thus Doomguy indirectly fucked over humanity a little bit

[azure oriole]

No, that's correct.

he smashes it with the hammer, chop em up and sniff em

[foggy stratus]

demons get stronger, doomguy gets bigger guns

[azure oriole]

its like coke

[primal relic]

they did evolve to become immune to the radiation in DOOM 64, I think they can do the same for the smaller arms, albeit on a slower scale

[azure oriole]

Here's the thing - "Argent" doesn't refer to any specific substance. It's a colloquial term referring to Wraith Energy after it's been tampered with or purified. There are multiple forms of Argent Energy in Doom's canon, some of them are good and one of them is awful.

[ruby epoch]

So how much worse is the damage in nightmare

[azure oriole]

doom lore + drug war

[foggy stratus]

I always thought of it as, the argent energy thats created is "artificial", forcing the production process of the soul to make it in a factory style

the argent in demons is "natural argent", is that correct and makes sense?

[crimson forge]

That's a good point, like Pinkies were such a threat to Earth that the ARC's defenses could be breached or outright overtaken by a single Pinky, and thus they deployed long range bombardments to keep pinkies far away from them. But for the Slayer, it ain't no thang.

[azure oriole]

masterchief vs demons

[ruby epoch]

mastercheif 2.0

[azure oriole]

Yes.
Specifically, there are three versions of Argent Energy in Doom's canon, all three of which developed through different means. Hell's Essence is tortured souls. Therefore:
Essence + Wraith Energy = HELL Argent (Nekravol)
Wraith Energy + UAC Purification = UAC Argent (Doom 2016)
Crucible + Hayden tech = Argent-Synthesis (ARC tech in Doom Eternal)

[foggy stratus]

yeah I think chief is fucked

[azure oriole]

Basically, Hell made Argent by combining Wraith Energy with souls. UAC did it by purifying it. Hayden synthesized it with the Crucible.

[midnight sparrow]

Man the ARC are totally useless if they can be over run by a single Pinky

[foggy stratus]

so yeah, the reason doomguy doesn't mind using argent from demons is cause thats natural, what he doesn't like is the artificial stuff, he knows its stupid to try and exploit hell

[azure oriole]

he is fucked. he can still stagger even to the most skilled Sangheli and Brutes. His abilities only push him to what is ENOUGH.

[ruby epoch]

Yeah the name is even funny like comone beat up pinky

[azure oriole]

I think he's okay with using Argent from demons because it helps him, and in a way it weaponizes Hell's victims back at itself.

[primal relic]

pretty sure they did better than anyone else could other than the slayer

[midnight sparrow]

How the hell the group at ARC Complex survived before Doomguy showed up is beyond me

[azure oriole]

The ARC is actually super competent and I think they did an incredible job considering after 13 years of warring with Hell, the demons still hadn't touched Australia + multiple regions of the world.

[crimson forge]

Their entire defense plan of earth was to outlast hell's siege, now they brought a breathing battering ram to play, once that hole in the defense is open, the demons come pouring through

[azure oriole]

Doom guy when he finds out elon musk uses argent energy for his tesla truck

just started playing eternal what u guys think ab it’s campaign

[ruby epoch]

bro he would be punching every tesla for gasoline

[crimson forge]

I actually had no idea what the timeframe between 2016 and Eternal was

[foggy stratus]

really good

[midnight sparrow]

It’s great

[azure oriole]

been really enjoying battle mode

definitely feels different to 2016 tho

my only complaint is i wish we had deathmatch

[midnight sparrow]

I miss 2016 mp

[crimson forge]

That's also a really good point, like alternative forms of gasoline in biofuel and Diesel, he really is the Loremaster

[azure oriole]

not a big deal but yk

i miss 2016 dm

[azure oriole]

corn is an energy source

[azure oriole]

It's a few things.

1. The UAC's resources were cannibalized following Doom 2016. Hayden and the Cultist Branch alike scrambled to scoop up all the resources they could. Hayden probably could have stopped the invasion entirely had they not been distracted by the energy crisis, which enabled Ranak's Cultist forces to establish the Super Gore Nest in Europe and start the invasion properly.
2. Hayden's Argent-Synthesis tech made the army's tech incredible. They weren't outmatched; just outnumbered, because no matter how many demons they killed, more could come, and they didn't have the means to locate the Priests nor the firepower to destroy the Super Gore Nest.

[ruby epoch]

Me getting gold in ultranightmare will feel like:

[crimson forge]

so, they were overwhelmed with time rather than brute force? sounds more like outnumbered

[midnight sparrow]

I guess seeing the state there in during the campaign gives the image there weak rather then how they held up before.

[azure oriole]

It's also important to note that Hell didn't intend to destroy all of Earth or the humans until the third act of Eternal itself; only to subjugate them. The Khan Maykr commanded Hell at this point, and she didn't want extinction; only subjugation and soul-harvesting. A significant amount of Hell's efforts were focused on utilizing the Cultist UAC to propagandize the humans and convince them to surrender to Hell.

[azure oriole]

I mixed the two up. They weren't outmatched; just outnumbered.

[crimson forge]

No worries

[azure oriole]

Fixed

[crimson forge]

[foggy stratus]

somewhere it says they killed thousands of demons and thousands more appeared, they could kill demons, that wasn't the problem, the problem was numbers

[azure oriole]

Yeah.

[foggy stratus]

humanity was swarmed, and then some

[azure oriole]

not to mention humans can be infected into zombies etc.

[ruby epoch]

Pinky likes to run

[azure oriole]

Had the ARC given up, Earth would probably look like Argent D'Nur; barren, with select groups of humans allowed to stay alive in select communities across the planet, provided they worship the Khan.

not to mention a marauder is the equivelent of sendin a Zealot from halo into battle

[foggy stratus]

also the fact that demons didnt care about dying, "they were willing to sacrifice their own to get to the heart of our world", they brute forced through human forces

[azure oriole]

Extinction isn't a possibility until we make the Khan so made she flips the table over and decides to send out the Icon.

stoopy poopy icon of sex

[foggy stratus]

you mean the hell argent d'nur and not the super pretty ag2 one right

[azure oriole]

Yeah.
So, TLDR, the reason the ARC got so far in defending Earth was 1) Extensive UAC resources, 2) Argent-synthesis, and 3) Hell only seeking to subjugate and cull the population rather than render humanity extinct entirely.

[crimson forge]

Yeah, and with the Icon no longer under the Khan's control, it's a universal threat, idk about multiversal, but explicitly universal

[azure oriole]

is 2016 mp actually active ?

[foggy stratus]

I thought it was dimensional

[azure oriole]

I mean the planet itself, which we see in the Exultia, Sentinel Prime, Taras Nabad, and World Spear levels.

[midnight sparrow]

Makes sense. Hell is really strongest in there vast numbers. Overpowering enemies with there numbers is like there thing. Cause fodder and heavies maybe a few super heavies alone or in small groups could be killed by soldiers with the right equipment

[azure oriole]

i tried for a game the other day didn’t have any luck

[summer zinc]

Doom 16 on switch still active

[crimson forge]

I think 2016's Argent D'Nur was an attempt at giving a name to hell that wasn't Hell

[azure oriole]

Argent D'Nur, the planet, isn't barren. It looks that way, but it's very much populated by Sentinels and Argenta whom the Khan has allowed to live provided they worship her and follow the whims of the Deag.

[foggy stratus]

iirc theres multiple universes/dimensions, so theres several different earths, but they all share the same hell, so hell is like, underneath all of them and it often tries to eat them all

[crimson forge]

Eternal decided to go full stop with it and simply call hell Hell

[azure oriole]

2016's Argent D'Nur is an absorbed area from the planet, similarly to the second half of the Exultia level in Eternal. I believe it is the "Elemental Sepulchre", an area mentioned in Eternal's Codex that served as the resting place for several Wraiths before the Betrayer allowed Deag Grav access to it.

if u played ancient gods part 2 u can see theres still like other tribes and such

[foggy stratus]

and thats how doomguy got from his original earth to the one in 2016/eternal cause its def not the same one

[azure oriole]

Yes.

[foggy stratus]

he got there cause they have the same hell, so hell can be used to traverse dimensions, though doomguy is the only one im aware of thats done this, and he probably didnt intend to

[azure oriole]

Yeah

[crimson forge]

Oh yeah, forgot about that bit, and I figured the hell section of Exultia was the portal the Deag sent the sentinels and the Slayer through in their betrayal, considering Exultia's codex entry

[azure oriole]

Well his original Earth is probably nothing more than a rock considering it's been, like, millions of years since he was last there.

[foggy stratus]

it was also invaded already

[azure oriole]

But yeah. Across the Doom canon we see three Earths, three UACs, three Mars. One Hell.

And then there's Argent D'Nur, which appears to be in the same dimension as 2016/Eternal's Earth

[midnight sparrow]

Really? Thought he saved it after Doom 64. The whole reason he sealed himself in Hell was to stop the demons from invading his Earth

[azure oriole]

Well yeah but they fucked up Earth.

[foggy stratus]

so davoths death is a little more significant than most people may realize, because "all demons outside of hell" applies to all dimensions, meaning the demon death count at the moment was probably exceeding the trillions, and thats most likely an extremely too low estimate

[azure oriole]

Like, he saved humanity, but only .1% of it. Doom 2's manual says by the time the game begins the demons have succeeded at rendering humanity virtually extinct. Doomguy narrowly succeeds at saving a small select group left by sending them into space.

They presumably come back after 2.

[ruby epoch]

i just realised everytime you get a glory kill it would be funny to use the kill sound effect from among us

[crimson forge]

True, but the damage is well and truly done

[foggy stratus]

he saved trillions and probably more from demons, I think its worth it

[azure oriole]

Hell was way more successful in its invasion of the OG Earth, presumably because OG Earth was significantly less advanced.

[foggy stratus]

and doomguy wasn't as powerful as he was now to stop them as effectively

theres a reason he is doing everything to save eternals earth, hes not gonna make the same mistakes

[azure oriole]

Yeah. People overblow the Daisy shit and don't realize that the guy just doesn't want innocent people to die.

[crimson forge]

They also may have killed his family too

[azure oriole]

u can tell by his armor

[crimson forge]

Cause we see a torn picture of a mother and son underneath his sweet gamer desk in the Fortress of Doom

[azure oriole]

Kinda irritates me. Doom lore has its faults but the writers did a great job retroactively tying Doomguy's character together into one cohesive character defined by trauma and pain, who can display his personality and wear it on his sleeve, all while still barely talking. It is as if Doomguy, like us, and like the technological advancements of his own games, has grown and aged and become stronger.

[foggy stratus]

its not just because daisy died, its because of what daisy represents, hell kills the innocent, no matter how pure, and for that, theres no remorse for them

[azure oriole]

And then people see this and dumb it down to him being a dork-ass John Wick rip-off.

[foggy stratus]

tbf, he is a really cool john wick rip-off

[azure oriole]

i think its more so cause we dont rlly have games with modern storytelling in previous doom games like eternal

[crimson forge]

Yeah, his Quake Champions bio says he carries around a rabbits foot, not for luck, but to remind him of what he's lost, more than a rabbit, but the death of innocence

[azure oriole]

like God of war and halo have had numerous games of storytelling to explain their "humanity"

Well yeah, but what's cool is you don't need those. It's a simplistic storytelling method. Doom 64 established it quite well in a paragraph.

[foggy stratus]

doom lore can be summed up as "doomguy is mad at demons, he kills them all", which is correct, but then you can delve into why hes so pissed, and he has very good reasons for it

[azure oriole]

Your fatigue was enormous, the price for encountering pure evil. Hell was a place no mortal was meant to experience. Stupid military doctors: their tests and treatments were of little help. In the end, what did it matter - it was all classified and sealed. The nightmares continued. Demons, so many demons; relentless, pouring through.

You cackle as the familiarity of the situation occurs to you. [...] You realize the demons mock you with their invitation. It does not matter... the demons spawn like rats [...] Your bloodthirsty scream shatters the teleport haze.

A grim vision takes hold of your mind as the demon carcasses steam in your wake. Stretched before you is a path of perpetual torment... a path through Doom...

its more so people dont wanna read a paragraph and wanna be shown. and not to mention this franchise is being rebooted people like me havent grown up with this franchise i think

its more so we miss the small story tellings of doom guy as we are focused on its gameplay and the whacky baddass stuff we do

Well, the problem is they were shown in Eternal, and people got mad because the cutscenes were there and it wasn't him ignoring everything like in 2016

[ruby epoch]

quickest way to kill a murauder?

[crimson forge]

Doomguy plays an active role in this world

[azure oriole]

theres a lot of plot holes i did encounter back in 2020 when i touched this game like how did doom guy get his armor and such which yk its hard to make this stuff connect ig

[foggy stratus]

theres a lot of "humanization" for doomguy that I really like, fist bumping the toy, his gaming setup, even being super powerful with god juice in his veins, hes still just a guy, hes still doomguy

[azure oriole]

ofc till Ancient Gods released and solved most of my issues

like Hayden as a character and such.

[azure oriole]

Doom 2016 has perhaps the best character-establishing moment for a protagonist I've seen in almost any game with its intro.

[ruby epoch]

hello

[foggy stratus]

"betterment of mankind"
*looks down at corpse*

[azure oriole]

But another subtle Slayer moment I've always loved is TAG1's ending, before you walk into the Luminarium

Because I think what a lot of people forget is that he hesitates, and I think that's a great thing to think about.

[foggy stratus]

when hes about to kill samuel?

[azure oriole]

Yes

[foggy stratus]

yeah and when vega saves him he doesn't seem to mind, just retracts his blade and continues, cause hes not in his way anymore for now

[crimson forge]

People like to say that he's Doom 64's marine, who was an engineer, though I think they're both the same as 93 doom, I figured he made his Eternal Armor himself using parts of the 2016 praetor suit

[azure oriole]

All across Eternal, when given the chance, immediately, BAM, fucking kill the Priests. He blows Grav's head off, tears off Nilox's, decapitates Ranak. Immediately. No listening to their bullshit, fuck you, dead, IMMEDIATELY. They are vile people and deserve this.
But here comes Samur, and the Slayer... waits. Hesitates.

[crimson forge]

and thats HUGE

[azure oriole]

in 2016 i always wondered where he got his armor

[slow sigil]

he took a bit of waiting with the second priest

[azure oriole]

And thinking about this, one must wonder - was he going to kill Samur? Had the Father not taken him away, would he have spared him? If he'd killed him, would he have enjoyed it?

[crimson forge]

"The seraphim" gave it to him, who was revealed to eventually have been Samuel Hayden

[azure oriole]

id say doom guy more or less wouldnt enjoy gettin rid of him but more so get rid of him cause hes in his way

[slow sigil]

probably because of their very lightly hinted at relationship

[foggy stratus]

yeah doomguy doesn't really "hate" samuel, not enough to outright kill him, hes been a useful ally and despite being an idiot with hell as far as domguys concerned, doomguy recognizes what hes trying to do, help humanity

so he only is about to kill him when hes in his way

[azure oriole]

It's as if he's thinking about it. Is he ready to do this? Unlike the priests, Samur has always had "good intentions". He's done horrible shit. But he's also done good shit, and if not for him, he would not exist. So he hesitates.

Samur is the reason he has his powers but also when he was samuel hes also a piece of shit ig.

[crimson forge]

"I am not the villain of this story. I do what I do because there is no choice."

[foggy stratus]

doomguy:

[azure oriole]

I think Doomguy really, really detests Samuel Hayden. But in that moment, I think he stopped seeing an obstacle and started seeing a person, one who, even for just fleeting moments, had motivations that aligned with his own.
Samuel Hayden is a piece of shit, and if I were in the Slayer's position, I'd have fuckin' killed him. But the fact that our protagonist hesitates at all, regardless of if this is the right thing or not, is a really cool scene that adds a lot of depth to him.

[crimson forge]

He really only stands in the Slayer's way because he doesn't believe the Slayer can actually defeat the Dark Lord, or if he happens to fail, everything is lost. Even transfigured and rapidly losing reason, he tells the slayer to stop and that this is wrong

[azure oriole]

both samuel and doomguy have the same path but think differently. Samuel is mythotical and the Slayer has very Unrealistic ideas that ye manage to work

[foggy stratus]

he becomes unintersted as soon as he says "resolve this in a way that benefits us both", doomguy doesn't give a flying fuck about negotiations, theres a problem with demons and hes going to solve it

[azure oriole]

think its very cool especially when u bring samuel hayden back to life.

but i cant help sometimes but wonder if Samuel wanted the father back just for his personal safety or he actually cared for humanity

Hey, that's okay! If you'd like to get educated, check out my guide in the pins for this channel. It's only 200 pages.

he always gave me the vibe he had selfish intent to bring back the father

[crimson forge]

Samuel was kind of right in saying "destroying the argent filters isn't necessary" and Doomguy didn't listen mostly because he doesn't like Samuel, and after about 13 years to cool off he understands more

[azure oriole]

Oh yeah no Samur is a narcissistic dickhead, and when he was Hayden he was just as fucked up.
I do not believe Hayden's a good person. I have always felt he was a corporate piece of shit who only ever had his good intentions because they made him out to be a hero. He's a diva who wants to be at the center of attention. He's Elon Musk on bath salts with a robot body.

My point isn't that he is good - moreso that, even though he's a bad person, the Slayer still hesitates.

[foggy stratus]

one thing thats interesting to me is how many people were surprised by hayden being the seraphim in ag1

like, its extremely obvious in eternal, he knows way more than a human would regardless of how smart they are, the same voice line in the flash back, the way he talks about urdak
"no human or demon has ever set foot in their world"
"magnificent isn't it" yeah hes been there before

people really dont pay attention

[azure oriole]

Think about that. If you looked down on the pleading eyes of an evil tyrant who oppresses others and only does good when it benefits his ego... sure, it'd be best to kill him. But right now, you see the eyes of another "man".

[slow sigil]

literally same voice actors aswell

[crimson forge]

Including his conversation with the slayer before entering the Divinity machine. "I offer you a gift. take it. it will give you strength. help you on your journey" exactly mirrors what he said when he gave him the first Argent Cell in 2016

[azure oriole]

The Slayer still has humanity. I'd argue that, had he gotten to Olivia Pierce in time, he probably would have hesitated before killing her as well.

[foggy stratus]

same voice actor means nothing, and that should never be used as proof for any theory in anything

[azure oriole]

Well it's less "Same VA" and more "that same VA is using the same exact voice for these two characters".

[foggy stratus]

well go and finish them, fun games go play them

[azure oriole]

the same exact style especially. The very mythotical tone and carefully used words

Yeah finish those.

[azure oriole]

From my guide:

Combined with his striking lack of regard for the mental wellbeing of UAC staff and the dystopian methods he employed in running the UAC’s Argent Facility, Hayden exemplified the best and worst of the new age corporate overlord.
These include implementing a seven day work week; assigning dangerous work orders to employees who violated UAC policy; encouraging employees to contact “enforcers” if other employees express doubt regarding their employment; regularly submitting employees to interrogation and experimental treatment; generally promoting an almost cult-like work environment that may have given rise to Olivia’s UAC Cult; etc, etc... Hayden is a walking OSHA violation.

[crimson forge]

I mean, we've seen how much distance he can cover with Nilox, Olivia Pierce was well within range, but he hesitated because she isn't a demon, just a human led horribly astray

[foggy stratus]

getting all the lore in 2016 and eternal is pretty simple, just collect all the codex, and spend like 20 minutes reading through all of them and you're basically caught up on everything

[crimson forge]

Shoot them from behind

[foggy stratus]

and obviously pay attention to in game events

[azure oriole]

Side-step them when charging. When they stop, walk up close enough to sniff their ass, then blast them with the SSG point-blank. Instakill, IIRC

[foggy stratus]

@azure oriole make them charge at you, jump over them, turn around, blast their tail

[azure oriole]

Their weak point is their ass.

[azure oriole]

or be a nooby and freeze em

He's playing 2016 I think.

[foggy stratus]

freeze is good if theres multiple pinkys

[azure oriole]

ah

[crimson forge]

I totally get the Parallels between Elon and Samuel Hayden, like the reason he took a 9 foot tall robot body was because "you never know when the world may need a hero" and he was totally gonna be that hero

[azure oriole]

ethernet

[foggy stratus]

samuel being the seraphim, I dont mind that, theres just one part about it I dont like

his samuel hayden form voice is way cooler

[azure oriole]

prob cause its to sound more human

[azure oriole]

Yeah. Even with 2016 in isolation I always felt Hayden wasn't this "well-meaning" guy; there were totally other options he could've taken. His choices were to serve his own curiosity and ego. He's not a good guy at all.

[foggy stratus]

I dont mean human, I mean it just sounds cooler

[crimson forge]

Yeah I gotta say in Eternal it lacks something that 2016 had

[azure oriole]

Played 2016 on a whim, then get into the classic games.

[foggy stratus]

I dont mean that either

[azure oriole]

i played doom 1 like years ago....

[foggy stratus]

I mean samuel haydens voice, is cooler than his voice as the seraphim

[azure oriole]

It is.

and never touched it till act man and his buds got me into it with 2016

[crimson forge]

I think the events of 2016 kind of put things in perspective for him, and his events after and during Eternal was all damage control for his screwups

[azure oriole]

i know own Brain Trauma

Mick Gordon's cool and all but one song from Doom II solos all of his songs combined.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkhCNx-8Qos

[foggy stratus]

I had doom (2016) in my library for a while (dont remember when I got it or why) and then last year I finally played it, immediately bought eternal after I finished it and felt that sense of "holy shit why didnt I play this for like 2 years since its been out"

[azure oriole]

It's a good game. Check it out sometime.

[crimson forge]

Now, that's not to say he's a good person, but it's to say that he understands that he put humanity at risk

[azure oriole]

im not too mad with mick gordon no longer workin the music. Im just disappointed with this situation

[crimson forge]

Love that one, even if it borrows riffs

[foggy stratus]

my favorite doom 2 song is intermission

[azure oriole]

The situation itself sucks, but gonna be real - some of this franchise's greatest songs are in TAG1 and TAG2.

Shit on the Davoth fight all you want but his boss theme is my favorite song in the franchise.

[foggy stratus]

yeah it sucks that mick is gone, but the new composers did a really good job

[azure oriole]

its more so this is a dude who would def be some of the most iconic composers of our time. Siding with who ever made God of war's soundtrack and elden ring's

Hulshult's composer-work is raw as fuck by the way. Play Dusk. The dude is incredible.

and kinda sucks the dude's reputation got dookied on for a while

[crimson forge]

I felt like TAG's music lacked Gordon's specific punch, but was still pretty good, I'll have to listen to Davoth's theme to get a proper judgement

[hollow wren]

Friend who absolutely loved the game so I checked it out and thought it looked cool. Only recently I got to play Eternal because I refused to get it on Switch (I played the PS5 version)

[azure oriole]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiqLKp8U_K8
Listen to this version.

Song gives me chills on multiple parts. The At Doom's Gate callback is great.

[foggy stratus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDXk4Gubkck&t=122s I really like the title drop music for ag1

[azure oriole]

id like to imagine this was more techno inspired sense u are fighting a dude in a mech suit

very fitting.

Whoever made the choice to cut the Into Sandy's City remix for Eternal's outro was a fuckin' moron.

[crimson forge]

Tbh I didn't actually care much for BFG Division when I first heard it, but now it's one of my favorite 2016 tracks, Rip and Tear remains my favorite

[azure oriole]

Mastermind and VEGA Core sweep BFG Division

[foggy stratus]

bfg division is a little overrated

[crimson forge]

I have to play more of 2016 to really get a good idea of what the music is

Also when discussing the Slayer's humanity nobody mentioned the fact that instead of shutting down Vega, he made a backup of him, which ended up being the key to defeating the Icon of Sin

[foggy stratus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCjchUpBs1k I think the icon of sin boss theme in eternal is extremely slept on

[azure oriole]

doom eternal's soundtrack is Metal with no guitar + mongolian throat singing or something

[foggy stratus]

it does have guitars

[crimson forge]

God I gotta listen to more of Eternal's soundtrack

[azure oriole]

That part was great. I doubt he'd have done it had he known VEGA's true identity but it's still cool.

Listen to Gladiator, shit is awesome.

it prob does i just barely notice cause im too busy banging my head while killing

[foggy stratus]

gladiator goes hard

[crimson forge]

Oh I know Gladiator goes hard as hell

[foggy stratus]

I love the tracks that have the chanting in the background

[flint flame]

Instead, at end credits we got the fucking arc ambient song

I’ve heard it enough times through battlemode lobbies

[crimson forge]

I feel like Eternal kind of overused The Only Thing They Fear Is You, like it's good, just not exceptional, yknow

[azure oriole]

Only Thing They Fear is great but not the best in the soundtrack. The Sandy's City callback is amazing.

[crimson forge]

I never noticed a Sandy's City callback, I'll have to relisten

[azure oriole]

when id reboots quake and the music slaps

then again i remember it always being a creepy horror ambience

[azure oriole]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmUDr2DO2is
Intro here.

[azure oriole]

that hits harder than a belt

Not a full remake - Only Thing They Fear uses Into Sandy's City in one section of the song. It plays in the intro of certain mixes and after arena battles during the ARC Complex level.

god if only the soundtrack was made properly it would have won the game awards for music

[crimson forge]

I think more than a few 2016 and Eternal tracks use the Imp's Song clicks cause Mick really liked it to the point where he tracked down old equipment to record it in its natural state

[azure oriole]

then again there was Final Fantasy 7 remake

It's fitting, since Into Sandy's City was the best song in Doom II and Eternal's basically a soft reboot of that.

[azure oriole]

"Authorization: Olivia Pierce" is a full rendition of "Suspense" from the OG.

And Davoth's boss theme uses, of course, At Doom's Gate

[crimson forge]

I always like pointing out the parallels between the classic doom games and the reboots, like how 93 and 2016 start on Mars and have the Spider Mastermind as the final boss, and 2 and Eternal start on earth and end (without DLC) on an Icon of Sin fight

[azure oriole]

i too enjoy when music is remixed/rebooted a bit

Like halo soundtracks. many are basically remixed

Fitting, considering 2016 was originally a hard reboot of Doom 1993 that would have retold its events from the POV of the Slayer who, IIRC, was originally going to be a combat robot rather than a dude.

That was after the "Call of Doom" shit.

call of doomy

[crimson forge]

I don't wanna say they're standing on the shoulders of giants with Doom but they definitely had a great launchpad

I prefer Eternal

[azure oriole]

eternal's gameplay imo defined what boomer shooters are as a genre again ig

Both

[sacred dirge]

They both bring great things to the table

[azure oriole]

I like every Doom game.
Except for TNT.
And Doom 2 sometimes.

[sacred dirge]

Tnt

[crimson forge]

What about the Doom RPGs

[azure oriole]

Doom 2016 is very important, probably more than Eternal I'd argue, though I think Eternal's a better game.

its more so if u prefer the faster paced and mind boggling gameplay or u prefer ig doom 2016 which is more softer ig for noobies

2016 still has a faux-horror atmosphere to it, as a lot of the game is taking inspiration from Doom 3, which focused on horror.

someone who mostly plays halo/callofduty/battlefield campaigns i think would prefer somethin like 2016

Eternal mimics the OG games' graphics with a more colorful pallet and sometimes more surreal environments.

ye thats the intro

Hell on earth and the gore nest and where u fight the icon of sin

[crimson forge]

Self contained, I think 2016's story is better than Eternal, but looking through the entire series I think Eternal brings it together nicely

[azure oriole]

Several levels are set on Earth

-Hell on Earth
-Cultist Base
-Doom Hunter Base
-Super Gore Nest
-Final Sin
-UAC Atlantica
-Reclaimed Earth

im someone who prefers great gameplay than story

[crimson forge]

In the arctic, yeah

[sacred dirge]

And man it brought boomers back to life. We had lame cover shooters until that masterpiece came in and showed what a real shooter should be

[azure oriole]

Between the two, I prefer Eternal's story, but 2016's story is told better.

[crimson forge]

That i completely understand

[foggy stratus]

cultist base is in the arctic

[azure oriole]

doom boom shroom eternal

[azure oriole]

Yeah no 2016 revived that shit. It revived interest in legacy franchises, boomer shooters, all that shit. We owe Doom 2016 and, partially, ROTT2013 for that.

[crimson forge]

Shroom Eternal

[azure oriole]

Toom Ethernet

[sacred dirge]

You don't know how good it felt having that adrenaline in my veins again like I was a kid. Real wake up call

[azure oriole]

just take sum edibles

[crimson forge]

Plus it gave rise to all manner of indie game that people also love the heck out of like Ultrakill and Metal: Hellsinger

[green phoenix]

oom eternal with the C in front of the oom

[foggy stratus]

original

[azure oriole]

I've been playing Metal: Hellsinger, it's alright.

[sacred dirge]

I take edibles every day. If you're getting adrenaline from them somethings wrong or you have baby tolerance

[azure oriole]

Also played Ultrakill, it's cool. Halfway through getting P ranks for Act II

[crimson forge]

I just knew it was a doom like game

[azure oriole]

More like Doom 2016 than the OGs. Rhythm-based. Attack to the beat of the metal music.

[crimson forge]

So I guess we have to establish the difference between a Doom Clone and an Eternal Clone then

Or at least establish them as separate entities

[azure oriole]

Kinda. Eternal isn't a boomer shooter at all - there's a name for what it is that I forget, but it's not a boomer shooter. Just an installment to a franchise comprised of them.

[flint flame]

Ha ha he couldn’t say banned word

[crimson forge]

Movement shooter I think

like Titanfall 2

[sacred dirge]

I tend to use boomer shooter and arena shooter

[crimson forge]

Arena shooter is another good term tbh

Boomer Shooter is more like Classic Doom

[azure oriole]

The term "boomer shooter" refers to, mainly, an FPS defined by the following characteristics:
-Fast-paced gameplay
-A relatively simple story, lack of cutscenes
-Usually, simplistic retro graphics
-Usually, a focus on level design, level flow, weapon design, etc... over complex mechanics and movements

id say it still is half a boomer shooter and half the movement.

But also stuff that contains a lot of mechanical skill like Fortnite would sometimes. The amount of binds and such for every combat feature in the game is immense

[foggy stratus]

people always recommend ultrakill to get more "doom eternal fix" but like, its the story of doom that makes the fix for me as well, its not just pure gameplay, its the setting, story, music, etc, that makes the doom experience, so another game that also happens to have "fast paced combat gameplay" doesnt automatically cut it

[azure oriole]

not sayin its bad. I actually enjoy playing my keyboard like a piano

These reasons are why I hesitate to refer to, say, Ultrakill as a boomer shooter. The game is anything but simple - it's a very, very complex shooter that has more in common with Devil May Cry than it does Doom. People just call it that because it's got low-poly graphics.

[sacred dirge]

True but unfortunately boomer shooter is what others call it/ how it's quickly described. Doesn't fit the description but like other English words it'll mean what it's most used for

[azure oriole]

this is the first time ive had to actually abuse my mechanical skill than just aim

[crimson forge]

Having played Devil May Cry, idk how much it has in common aside from the D-SSS ranking system

[azure oriole]

Ultrakill is fantastic, but yeah. Nothing quite scratches that itch for me like Doom does.
I'd recommend getting into fanmade Doom wads.

[foggy stratus]

well thats for classic doom

[azure oriole]

most games ive seen considered boomer shooters are also described with their fast paced Base movement. The difference between Titanfall and these boomer shooter like titles is your base movement is fast but u dont own many of the features that determine your movement if that makes sense

[idle cargo]

Where does Team Fortress 2 lie on the spectrum?

[azure oriole]

Ultrakill plays like a hack-and-slash but instead of melee it's guns. There's no ammo system, and the gameplay heavily encourages playing as stylishly as possible, with an emphasis on airborne attacks, weapon combos, and advanced mechanics such as parrying your own shotgun bullets, shooting a coin after flipping it in the air to ricochet it towards enemies, using magnets to direct nails and sawblades to enemies, and parrying projectiles back at enemies with your fists.

[foggy stratus]

ive played classic doom (1 and 2 at least, havent finished 64 yet) and the most interest I have in them now is decinos videos on the technical side of things, rather than the game itself

[idle cargo]

And how does it compare to stuff like Ultrakill and Doom

[crimson forge]

That makes a lot of sense actually

[azure oriole]

There isn't much of an emphasis on labyrinthine level design beyond secret-hunting, for example, and combat encounters are defined less by the level design and availability of weapons and moreso by your own abilities and how you use your weapons in increasingly elaborate ways.

[idle cargo]

A V1 can easily beat a Doom Slayer in a gameplay mechanics based fight for a reason

[crimson forge]

TF2 is kind of a cover shooter, kind of a positioning shooter, I think it falls most squarely under the genre of Class Shooter

[azure oriole]

team fortress 2 isnt rlly a boomer shooter. its a hero shooter

?

[crimson forge]

Nah wait hes right

Soup Eternal

[idle cargo]

By that I mean V1 is far more capable of stuff than Doom Slayer is

V1 can shoot a rocket and ride it

[azure oriole]

Decino's videos are awesome.

[crimson forge]

We are NOT getting into this again

[azure oriole]

64 is awesome too. You should play Plutonia too, it's great.

[idle cargo]

Wait was this an argument?

I am just talking gameplay mechanics, not powerscaling

[azure oriole]

Gators is right, he's not making a canonical powerscaling argument.

You have more movement and combat options in Ultrakill. Not a dig at Eternal, it's just the way the game is.

[crimson forge]

It's a recurring theme of people saying "oh doomslayer can beat x or can't beat x" but I guess I'm misinterpreting it

[azure oriole]

doom guy vs (some random character of a video game with 0 proof of their feats of how they'd be scale etc.)

[idle cargo]

Yeah no this isn’t powerscaling

[crimson forge]

Yeah it's clear now, I see

[azure oriole]

it would be beautiful to have even more features in doom eternal. im still hungry for more

[idle cargo]

Its simply a commentary on how V1 is given a lot more tools for stuff cause he is designed more for stylish gameplay

[foggy stratus]

doom fans when someone makes a vlid argument for a character beating him (they are shocked that doomguy isnt the only ridiculously op character in existence)

[crimson forge]

that's fair

[azure oriole]

like id get if they tone down on doom eternal's gameplay for the next game but i love how eternal plays

BTW yeah the V2 fights are incredible. Love the feeling of getting the perfect rank on Clair de Soleil

[brazen wadi]

[azure oriole]

Doom eternal to me is the equivelent of Button Combos in Halo 2

[idle cargo]

Doom is a mix between efficiently killing enemies with good speed and resource efficiency

[crimson forge]

Yeah it's a bit of a resource management game lol

[brazen wadi]

For me it’s the equivalent to a cocaine overdose mixed with absurd amounts of monster energy

[foggy stratus]

I think samurai jack could beat doomguy, ill elaborate layer if anyone cares

[idle cargo]

I mean it depends on how you interpret Doom lore. You could makea an argument the Slayer is stronger than infinite dimensional if you wanna go there.

[azure oriole]

He's not.

[idle cargo]

But I am not here to argue that though

[idle cargo]

Hell is descibed as being unlimited by time, dimension and space in the Doom Eternal Art Book

[foggy stratus]

doomguy is beyond imagination in power

...for demons

[strange gale]

me when i play video game on one too many vitamin gummy

[idle cargo]

And the Slayer was damaging it through his dights

[azure oriole]

like bro if they add some button combos where i can cancel a cool down doing a melee or somethin that aint an exploit thats a (FEATURE)

[idle cargo]

Doom lore is stupid and poorly written anyways

[azure oriole]

Only from the perspective of humans. This isn't entirely true - Hell has a finite geography to it, it's just fucking gigantic.

[foggy stratus]

wrong

[azure oriole]

And it exists beyond our own dimension and all that shit.

[idle cargo]

“Only the crucible can kill a Titan”

[foggy stratus]

stop, not kill

[idle cargo]

Meanwhile the BFG 10,000 is right there

[azure oriole]

Partially wrong. Stupid? Sometimes, maybe. Poorly written? Occasionally. But it's very very good anyway I think.

[foggy stratus]

what

[azure oriole]

wait wat

[strange gale]

i love making generalizing statements about things and then getting basic information wrong once challenged

[idle cargo]

Even then it implies a Titan can survive a shot from the BFG 10K

Which could create a gigantic crater in a planet

[foggy stratus]

yeah it probably could

titans are strong

[idle cargo]

Why

[azure oriole]

BFG 10K would have fucking obliterated Earth as well.

[idle cargo]

They aren’t THAT strong

They recoil from fire breath of dragons

[vagrant estuary]

honestly the use of parkour in eternal was so annoying

[idle cargo]

The Doom Slayer’s regular weapons can gore the Icon of Sin

[azure oriole]

Sure it probably could have killed the Icon. But it also would've evaporated half of America, and keep in mind this is only if you can actually aim it at the Icon, which isn't a guarantee since the BFG 10K is literally closer to Mars than it is to Earth.

[crimson forge]

Time does work differently though, assuming the Slayer's original 93 Doom Earth and 2016's Earth fall on the same timescale, like I think the Doom Bible puts 93 Doom set in 2022 and Doom II a year later, the Slayer spent supposed Eons in hell and only about 150 years passed on earth

[idle cargo]

Well the statement applies to Titans in general and not the Icon specifically

[foggy stratus]

the crucible prevents a titan from resurrecting

[idle cargo]

Also about the Maykrs lying explanation

[vagrant estuary]

Only a portion of earth, Maybe it could destroy the continent of europe

[azure oriole]

The Icon is much more powerful than normal Titans.

[idle cargo]

Why would they lie and say that Davoth got stronger than ever?

Do they want to keep themselves on their toes

[ruby epoch]

my brain hurts im only on level 5

[azure oriole]

They don't fall on the same time-scale. Time in Doom is still linear.

[vagrant estuary]

What you guys talking about

[idle cargo]

Doom Lore

[azure oriole]

the big dudes in hell

[vagrant estuary]

on?

[azure oriole]

like the gigantic ones

[vagrant estuary]

Titans?

[foggy stratus]

also, perhaps the crucible is the only way to kill a titan, that doesnt say invulnerable to damage, so the giant skull we see in 2016, perhaps its still alive, just trapped in a skeletal form, immobile, but not dead

[idle cargo]

Not really outside of non combat applicable attacks

Otherwise he is way smaller than some of the titans we see

[vagrant estuary]

Titans don't show much fighting feats

[idle cargo]

Literally the very first titan we see is significantly larger than him

[vagrant estuary]

The icon is able to destroy a universe at least

[crimson forge]

Idk man the Icon is kinda huge

[idle cargo]

Yeah with second hand effects

[vagrant estuary]

what did the codex say if the icon stayed on earth? it would make a black hole?

[idle cargo]

He can’t punch the universe and it explodes

[azure oriole]

This is proven wrong by the Codex. The Icon's size doesn't matter. It's literally the most powerful foe in Doom's canon. It's mere existence is apocalyptic - it was going to destroy the Earth simply by existing on it. It is literally a walking apocalypse, able to drag shit into Hell merely by being there.

[vagrant estuary]

and destroy our universe

[azure oriole]

im guessin u cant destroy a titan's skeletal structure apperently....? at least for the icon of sin

[foggy stratus]

biggest=/=most powerful

[idle cargo]

Davoth is still stronger than him

[azure oriole]

He's not.

[idle cargo]

Even at his weakest, Hell is a part of him

[vagrant estuary]

The icon warped reality, breaking space time, yes?

[crimson forge]

You can hurt the Icon, put it down for a while. But you can't stop or kill it without the Crucible

[idle cargo]

Hugo Martin stated that, not the Maykrs

[azure oriole]

It can, yeah.

[idle cargo]

Why would Hugo lie about that exactly

[vagrant estuary]

Davoth is stronger than the icon what

[idle cargo]

Yes he is the super god god of everything

[azure oriole]

That's not really true either.

[idle cargo]

That mysterious voice is literally nothing until further elaboration

[crimson forge]

Eternal lore is just that little bit nebulous

[vagrant estuary]

Doom is a multiverse, davoth created all of doom

[azure oriole]

Yes

[idle cargo]

The father took his power, but he could have possibly regrown in strength through his conquests

Why would the Maykrs lie by saying he is stronger than ever

[vagrant estuary]

Urdak is a universe of it's own yes?

[azure oriole]

Davoth being a part of Hell doesn't make him powerful. We know how powerful he is, which is as much as the Slayer was. His connections to Hell are a result of being Jekkad's Primeval. By this logic, any dictator of a huge empire is the most powerful man since he holds power over said empire. Davoth is manipulative and incredibly dangerous, yes. But powerful? The Icon could step on him and kill him instantly if it could.

doom lore am i right

[idle cargo]

Hell is a Part of him. The Icon of Sin wouldn’t exist without him

[vagrant estuary]

wtf

[azure oriole]

time to explain the whole lore of the Forerunners now from halo

[idle cargo]

Literally every demon outside of Hell, his domain, dies when he does

[azure oriole]

Only from a metaphorical standpoint, not a literal standpoint.

[crimson forge]

Doom lore gives Kingdom Hearts a run for its money

[vagrant estuary]

One of the codexs said only a primeval can kill davoth

[azure oriole]

The fact that the demons inside Hell don't die, nor Hell itself, proves that Hell can exist without him.

[idle cargo]

If the demons inside hell didn’t die then this was all pointless

They will just go back out and keep killing everyone

[strange gale]

it wasn't, because hell effectively contains itself now

[azure oriole]

No it wasn't. Killing every demon inside Hell was never an attainable goal. The point was to sever all of Hell's contacts with the outside world.

[crimson forge]

I think Davoth's existence also let them actually exist outside hell

[foggy stratus]

the goal was to save people from hell

[pastel onyx]

what is going on in chat rn?

[vagrant estuary]

What is this man talking about

[glossy warren]

doom lore

[idle cargo]

Then the UAC 2 comes in and fucks everything up again

[pastel onyx]

alr

[azure oriole]

Perhaps!

[idle cargo]

Doom 6 Rising Revengeance

[azure oriole]

https://tenor.com/view/i-know-more-than-you-i-know-you-smarter-smarty-pants-glaring-gif-15654642

[idle cargo]

TLDR

[glossy warren]

ok then what's my ip address

[idle cargo]

Doom Lore is nuts and a lot of it is up to interpretation

[crimson forge]

https://tenor.com/view/explaining-gif-22499839

[vagrant estuary]

what did you even try to explain when saying the icon is stronger than davoth

[azure oriole]

im like so confuse cause doom lore just contridicts whats said in dialogue and fcodex and whatever

[idle cargo]

Especially the TAG stuff

[glossy warren]

quite whimsical

[foggy stratus]

it really doesnt

[azure oriole]

I explained it pretty concisely and simply, man.

cause they said killing Davoth means every demon outside of his domain dies and im just like well that was uh.... what

like ok... ig...

idk im just here to pew pew on demons... monkey brain dont care

[idle cargo]

Davoth is literally only in his mech suit cause they had no dev time

[azure oriole]

The Icon is a gigantic Godzilla monster that innately shatters worlds just by being on them long enough.
Davoth is a man who is very very strong, can live super super long, and is super good with engineering and robots.
Both are impressive. One is much more powerful than the other.

[pastel onyx]

WHAT? Davoth is literal the hardest boss, The Creator of the universe aswell. The Icon Of Sin was only the strongest demon, not the strongest creator, he isnt even a creator. Davoth is strong without his suit aswell even.

[idle cargo]

Davoth is the easiest boss in the game 💀

[ruby epoch]

I dont exist yay

[glossy warren]

I am mildly disappointed we never got a 1v1 in tag2 with davoth outside his mech suit

alas, covid has to fuck everything up

[crimson forge]

Don't forget, biblically speaking, on the Seventh day, God rested, maybe Davoth had to rest too

[foggy stratus]

davoth isnt the slayers toughest battle, in game or in lore

[azure oriole]

Okay, my guy, I need you to consider something.
If I create a nuclear bomb, am I more powerful than the nuclear bomb just because I'm "the creator?" If I created the nuclear bomb, does this mean I can stand toe-to-toe with its explosion?

[glossy warren]

kinda underwhleming

[pastel onyx]

WHAT???? Davoth created life itself, he created himself somehow. Davoth is more powerful than The Icon Of Sin

[azure oriole]

tbh idk if we should compare gameplay and lore

[glossy warren]

yea

[vagrant estuary]

Davoth created all of doom (which is a multiverse) and had to power to destroy all of it, how exactly?

[azure oriole]

this is very inconsistent....and not at all the right way to judge

[idle cargo]

If God created Nukes he would be stronger than the nuke

[glossy warren]

loremaster has a point. if you create a nuclear bomb, you're not stronger than it despite being the creator

[foggy stratus]

just eat the nuke

[idle cargo]

But this is big brain god

[azure oriole]

Davoth himself did not create the entire multiverse, he created the Father and the Maykrs, who created the Earthly Realms after they sealed him within Jekkad.

like u dont compare Mario squashing every goomba and then say Mario's feet are the weight of a planet crashing down on u like a game theory/....

[crimson forge]

man spicy day in #doom-eternal huh

[glossy warren]

free carbs 👍

[pastel onyx]

That doesnt makes sence but Davoth created life itself from his bare hands and even creating OTHER gods in the multiverse of it is insane

[azure oriole]

Nope

[glossy warren]

we know he's not the top god

it's obvious there are higher powers than him

[azure oriole]

He didn't do that either, my man. I know this, because I've studied this.

[crimson forge]

He cannot be the Top G

[azure oriole]

its like when people argue if doom guy could beat kratos and im like well shit idk the lore makes 0 sense to me so idk how strong this mfw is

[vagrant estuary]

Davoth created our universe and hell, etc, no?

[pastel onyx]

Dawg this isnt a school, what are you studying?

[idle cargo]

Kratos is up to interpretation too

[glossy warren]

they'd be more likely to grab a beer at a bar and talk about their trauma

[azure oriole]

like can doom guy push a whole ship no clue

[azure oriole]

No. He may have created Hell. All we know is he was the first being in Jekkad, and he built the Father and the Maykrs.

[idle cargo]

Davoth is not just a guy

[glossy warren]

I see no problem with investing yourself in a shit-ton of lore that is balls-deep in information

[idle cargo]

Remember how he created Gods in the first place?

[foggy stratus]

yeah its possible hell is way older than even davoth, he just came in and made it the hell we know of

[azure oriole]

ye but at least we know the dude can carry like a 1000 tons on his arms as shown in the games he constantly does is what i mean

And doom guy we never see him ever test his strength than ripping and tearing flesh/

[idle cargo]

Or god like beings

[vagrant estuary]

he created our universe too what do you mean

[pastel onyx]

No it isnt, Davoth created hell

[azure oriole]

The pages and pages of Codex lore presented in the games, enough so that I wrote the largest and most comprehensive guide to Doom's canon and lore ever made over the course of several months of writing.
That studying.

if i see doom guy have some god-like strength ill believe it

[idle cargo]

Doom Slayer did easily shatter the chains of Titans in Nekravol Part 2

[foggy stratus]

source?

[crimson forge]

revealed in a dream

[azure oriole]

whats that made out of. tin foil?

[pastel onyx]

He said before he even died that he was a creator, even the intern has said things about it aswell

[glossy warren]

not the top.

[idle cargo]

The ones that held down Titans who were being used as slaves, idk

[foggy stratus]

he didnt say he created hell

[vagrant estuary]

Shit, you could either say hell is multiverse of its own, if you look at the concept art

[azure oriole]

🤷‍♂️ ig so

[glossy warren]

he's like the owner of a restaurant but he didnt start the restaurant from scratch

[idle cargo]

Davoth not using using his powes was literally just a change of plans at the start

They were like “nah we don’t have the time for this”, give him a robot suit and some basic attacks

[glossy warren]

I feel like not enough people understand that sometimes gameplay has to be toned down for, well, gameplay purposes

[glossy warren]

wasnt really their fault

[pastel onyx]

Davoth was the first dark lord, that means something

[azure oriole]

I mean he did not create our universe. He created the Father and the Maykrs, who created the Earthly Realms, i.e. our universe.
The only time a reference to Davoth "creating the universe" in Doom is when the Father said that "by his hand, all things were made... including you," which is less a confirmation of his actual actions building the universe and more that he was the catalyst, as his creations were the creators of the universe. We know this because of the Luminarium lore and the various explanations provided regarding the Universe's creation in TAG1, which was never contradicted by TAG2's lore revelations.

[idle cargo]

He could have easily been creating black holes and transforming into dragons if they had dev time

[idle cargo]

The Spider Mastermind was also possibly a Dark Lord

[azure oriole]

basically...

On top of this, the Codex explicitly tells us that Davoth lost a fight against the Father, HIS OWN CREATION, a mere robot he created.

or else Sprint wouldnt be a main arguement in the halo games... ha.. ha... haha... ha

[idle cargo]

He clearly would have made the Father incredibly powerful then

[pastel onyx]

Which codex?

[idle cargo]

Or thats just bad writing

[azure oriole]

Yep

[pastel onyx]

Which codex

[idle cargo]

Why would Davoth not make his robots completely subservient to him

[glossy warren]

codex in eternal

[pastel onyx]

Really? 😐

[idle cargo]

Thats 101 basics in robotics

[glossy warren]

you get it sdomehwere in the holt I think

[azure oriole]

theres a whole book abt Ai uprisings...

and a document signed abt this

[idle cargo]

If you wanna go crazy with interpretation

[glossy warren]

could be wrong I havent played tag in half a month 😟

[idle cargo]

You could say Samur Maykr absorbed the Father’s power

And therefore Davoth’s too, when he absorbed his essence

[pastel onyx]

he is correct about that

[idle cargo]

Nothing says the Father lost his power does it?

[azure oriole]

doom lore

[idle cargo]

He was just sealed in the piss ball like Davoth was

[pastel onyx]

But like behind

[idle cargo]

Can we just go back to not having lore please?

[glossy warren]

original doom lore vs eternal lore

[azure oriole]

Book of the Seraphs, Part V:

The Father bid Samur, his most trusted, to help the Father in his final undertakings in the physical realm. The Father would confront Davoth in Jekkad, and after this, the Father would withdraw from the physical realm.
Book of the Seraphs, Part VIII:
It was then that the Father returned to Jekkad, now called Hell by many. Atop the Pyramid of the Lost where Hell once worshipped the Father, as the skies split and Hell trembled, the Father ripped the Dark Lord's life sphere from his chest.

[pastel onyx]

alr

[azure oriole]

they should just hire someone to clean up the inconsistencies of the lore. wouldnt mind

[vagrant estuary]

There's also proven to be more than one multiverse in doom, if only I had image perms

[azure oriole]

Davoth and the Father battled in Jekkad. Davoth lost, because he, in his eternal silliness, made a robot capable of kicking his ass.

[azure oriole]

Like make a book if u have to.

[glossy warren]

happens to the best of us 😔

[azure oriole]

We know exactly how powerful Davoth is; we know this because we play as that throughout Doom Eternal. He was Slayer-strong. Done

[strange gale]

asimov's laws, or the broader concept of logic for that matter, do not supersede arrogance

[idle cargo]

How strong is Slayer strong

[crimson forge]

Silly Eternal

[idle cargo]

Like destroy the universe?

[azure oriole]

doom guy imo isnt strong. he's just heavily persistent.

[idle cargo]

Cause the Icon was going to as well I guess

[crimson forge]

No, nothing so strong as that I think

[azure oriole]

the guy's stamina never goes out.

[glossy warren]

it's his determination

[azure oriole]

-Superhuman strength
-Superhuman agility
-Superhuman stamina
-Immunity to old age

[foggy stratus]

"he is you, in their world"
"you"
as in, "hes as strong as you", hes a mirror of the slayer in looks and power

[idle cargo]

Thats not what I mean

[azure oriole]

Think of the Slayer as Captain America on steroids.

[vagrant estuary]

Yes davoth is stronger than the icon

[azure oriole]

like doom guy isnt gonna punch a hole into a planet. But u shoot him in the heart im not surprised he got that wolverine Regeneration and comes back

[idle cargo]

So he is fodder garbage

[azure oriole]

Yep

[vagrant estuary]

Sorry loremaster tldr

[idle cargo]

Goku could blink and he would die

[crimson forge]

Just because the Slayer can beat the Icon doesn’t mean he’s stronger than the Icon, it means he was better

[azure oriole]

Yes

[foggy stratus]

thats how I always imagined the divinity machine

divine super soldier serum if captain america was already ripped before getting it

[idle cargo]

Wouldn’t you try to argue against this?

[azure oriole]

No. You are correct. Goku evaporates the Slayer in a second.

[foggy stratus]

thats just how combat works

[idle cargo]

I mean Dragon Ball characters can literally attack by looking lol

[crimson forge]

Powerscaling moment

[azure oriole]

hes a literal Masquito holding a lightsaber

[pastel onyx]

Goku is a furry, you cant convince me other wise

[azure oriole]

That's about what it is. Slayer's never been god-levels of strong. His strength comes from persistence, will, and rage, not a god's ability to punch a hole through anything. In terms of videogame characters he is not nearly as powerful as Doom fans circlejerk him to be.

[glossy warren]

"grrrr but he killed titan and kill god grr 😡"

[crimson forge]

I’d say he’s on par with or slightly above a dude like Master Chief

[glossy warren]

definitely above

[idle cargo]

No he is definitely stronger than that

[crimson forge]

In the sense they’re both super soldiers at least

[pastel onyx]

eh-

[idle cargo]

You really do just hate Doom fans don’t you

[glossy warren]

one is essentiallyh a demidog

[azure oriole]

That's the allure and charm of the Slayer's character. He's strong, but he didn't get this far by just being OP. It's because he's incensed at the death of innocents and hellbent on stopping the forces of evil. He is persistent, determined, and has an iron will.
The Slayer isn't any more powerful "in lore" than he is in gameplay.

[idle cargo]

Well I do to, welcome aboard I guess

[crimson forge]

Cause don’t forget, the Slayer was indeed a soldier

[glossy warren]

sarcasm?

[pastel onyx]

Doom killed immortal beings with his bare hands but like

[idle cargo]

Read second message “well I do too”

[glossy warren]

o didnt see oopsie

[idle cargo]

I hate the idea that the Slayer is this invincible god man who cannot be stopped

[crimson forge]

Not even close, and that’s ok

[idle cargo]

He shouldn’t be invincible because if he is there is no danger he is facing at all

[pastel onyx]

once he wasent a god

[glossy warren]

constant juggle between lore nerds (not meant to be an insult)

[foggy stratus]

samurai jack would be able to defeat the slayer

guns are obsolete against jack, he consistently dodges them every time
assuming the bfg would target jack, he would likely be able to block the tendril with his sword
jacks speed is way higher than doomguys and he has much more extensive combat experience, doomguy fought for longer, but jacks received actual training compared to whatever he may have got for the marines

[idle cargo]

Invincible god man Doom Slayer killing demons would be as cool as me stomping on ants

[azure oriole]

But yeah. TLDR, Davoth isn't nearly the strongest enemy in Doom. I would argue that, on a physical level, the Icon is an infinitely more powerful threat to face, and I would even argue the Khan Maykr and Samur could stand toe-to-toe with him, even if they'd probably lose.

Like I said before, your fight with Davoth in TAG2 is less "THIS IS THE STRONGEST ENEMY I'VE EVER FOUGHT; THE FIGHT OF MY LIFE!!!!" and more "Well, time to do some housecleaning and kick this dipshit to the curb."

[vagrant estuary]

dude

[crimson forge]

Yeah I think the Khan and Samur were about Davoth’s match, like the Slayer only won against the Icon because he has the crucible to stop him

[azure oriole]

I still know more than you.

[glossy warren]

we never really see any strong physical activity from samur in his boss fight, do we? I mean, the part that fucks most of us is the buffed demons. yea, sure, he shoots energy balls and has laser beam shit but those are nmore of obstacles than they are outright attacks

[vagrant estuary]

Honestly I didn't read your paragraph so tldr

[pastel onyx]

Doom moves faster than Samurai Jack I bet, he could easily be caught. The freeze bomb he cant dodge not even a whiplash or any other fast demon can. Doom can break bones with two fingers. His double jump and dashing can get him caught to jack in seconds

[idle cargo]

Doom Slayer still exists infinitely higher dimension wise than Goku

[glossy warren]

maybe samur in his prime but not in his stage we fought him in tag

[foggy stratus]

doomguy wouldn't be able to touch jack

[idle cargo]

Goku exists in a 3D realm with 12 universes

[azure oriole]

I think the Slayer could've beat it even without the Crucible. Question is, would it have taken too long? It was a race against time. Perhaps, had he not had the Crucible, by the time the fight ended, there'd be nothing left to save.

[azure oriole]

the only time Masterchief had a god-like power was in halo 4 when the Librarian gave him the power to be Immune to the composer which was never said ever again lol.

[pastel onyx]

Doom also has a instant refresh for his endurance, I bet a normal human doesnt

[idle cargo]

Hell is infinitely dimensional

[glossy warren]

doesnt the lore state the only way to kill a titan is to use crucible

[idle cargo]

Goku wouldn’t be able to exist in it

[azure oriole]

the librarian "sped up" his Human evolution which was complete bullshit it didnt increase his strength or anything just made him immune to a power source that would destroy all tissues of an organism

[azure oriole]

Kind of, but not really. You can kill a Titan without a Crucible, it just takes forever and it's not worth the effort. Doomguy did in in Doom 2 to the Icon, as well as the Great One in the Testament lore.

[idle cargo]

Then again by this logic Spider-Man beats Goku because Marvel Cosmology is way higher

[azure oriole]

if anyones played Halo 4 u would know

[vagrant estuary]

Does Beating the campaign on ultra nightmare give you golden Slayer skin + the gold skins for all weapons or just the golden Slayer skin?

[crimson forge]

I mean, more than once we hear “only the crucible blade can stop a Titan” and yes, it is indeed a race against time, so without the crucible, the destruction of reality would continue, and the Slayer would technically have lost, regardless of his physical condition after the fight, the universe would be lost

[foggy stratus]

crucible also prevents them from resurrecting I believe

[glossy warren]

just skin I think

[idle cargo]

BTW Mono I am curious

[crimson forge]

Just the slayer skin, the weapons come from beating the master levels

[pastel onyx]

Only the blade does

[idle cargo]

Do you even know how strong Goku is?

Not to downplay Goku at all

[vagrant estuary]

@azure oriole knows everything, so how do you get the golden weapon skins?

[idle cargo]

I just know he is a lot stronger than many may assume

[glossy warren]

master levels

[foggy stratus]

theres a reason goku is often talked about when it comes to power scaling, hes really strong

[azure oriole]

I have a Dragon Ball fan for a brother. Dude could sneeze and it'd vaporize basically anything in Doom's canon. Which isn't a bad thing. These are two different franchises that work on completely different rules and canons.

[pastel onyx]

He is powerful but he can be beat

[azure oriole]

also why does it matter doom guy has to be as strong as goku

[foggy stratus]

what

[azure oriole]

I'd argue your weakest main Dragon Ball characters could probably kick the Slayer's ass. It's just how Dragon Ball works. Every other character is capable of shit that is very rare in Doom or other franchises.

[idle cargo]

Goku gets like gazillions of times strong each arc

[azure oriole]

physical and mental strength are two different things.

[glossy warren]

doom fans love to compare different franchises to their own

[idle cargo]

That would be Early Dragon Ball

Which ranges from wall destroyers to moon busters in terms of fighters

[crimson forge]

The slayer could probably just bust Yamcha’s arm and be done with it

[glossy warren]

I'd argue the slayer is one of the most mentally powerful characters EVER

[idle cargo]

Not even close

[azure oriole]

Yeah, you see, Doom fans are insecure and they can't praise their own franchise without projecting and calling other franchises terrible. It's why you see all the "ANIME IS TEMPORARY, DOOM IS ETERNAL!!!!" memes.

[azure oriole]

oh god.

[glossy warren]

I'm trolling guys

[idle cargo]

They are just the kinds of people who think that the stronger the characters are, the better the franchise is

[glossy warren]

yea sure he's determined but not

[azure oriole]

the most powerful character is the tf2 Medic. he made a deal with satan

[crimson forge]

Indomitable will despite a refusal to acknowledge a large part of the consequences of his actions

[idle cargo]

Hah One Piece sucks Goku can blink and it dies

[glossy warren]

it's not that hard to make deals with devils

[idle cargo]

Some people unironically think that way and its sad

[azure oriole]

yes but he scammed him

[glossy warren]

devils abide by rules, demons are the ones that dont give a shit about anything remotely proper

[idle cargo]

What no Ultrakill can’t possibly do something better than Doom does

Doom Eternal is the best at everything ever

[glossy warren]

TRUE!!!!

[idle cargo]

What do you mean I should really play other games?

[azure oriole]

gta with cheats on

[idle cargo]

I am content with playing the same game over and over and wanking it as the best thing in history

[azure oriole]

this is how bungie halo fans are

[ruby ridge]

Can you freeze Slayer Hunters?

[azure oriole]

ye

[idle cargo]

Slayer Hunters?

[azure oriole]

doom hunters hes on abt prob

[glossy warren]

doom hunters

[idle cargo]

I have never heard someone call Doom Hunters that

[azure oriole]

potato potato

[glossy warren]

yea

[ruby ridge]

My memory is shit so I switch between the two

[azure oriole]

marauders and possessed demons cant be frozen.

[glossy warren]

I dont remember if you can freeze the first one in the doom hunter base

[azure oriole]

Ultrakill has better bosses, I'll give it that.

[ruby ridge]

Also what’s a good method for taking them down quickly?

[glossy warren]

but once they become like regulary encoutnered demons they can be frozen

[idle cargo]

Thats not hard at all

[glossy warren]

targeting sled

[idle cargo]

Doom bosses are shit

[azure oriole]

I like a lot of them.

[glossy warren]

cripple the fuckers

[idle cargo]

A significant chunk aren’t even bosses in the first place

[azure oriole]

Posting the list again.
S: Spider Mastermind, Icon of Sin, Davoth
A: Cyberdemon, Maledict, Gladiator
B: Sabaoth, Khan Maykr, Guardian
C: Hell Guards, Seraphim, Mightiest Warrior
D: Vagary, Hell Hunters, Trial of Maligog

[ruby ridge]

They get the blood pumping, pretty difficult even in normal

[idle cargo]

You like Davoth, your taste in bosses is trash tier

I say the same for anyone else who likes Davoth

[strange gale]

while dashing, slayer moves at 25 m/s (90 kph, or about 56 mph), and even if that speed were constant (it's nowhere near a constant 90 kph), it'd be more than 14 times slower than a typical 9mm bullet (350 m/s)

considering we're dealing with overtly fantastical powers in each world, no the fuck slayer wouldn't catch up lmao

i can accept deternal's wavedashing existing in-universe, but meathook swing speed being tied to fps makes taking it into consideration really dodgy. bhop speed is tied to arbitrarily assigned fall height to lunge speed -conversions so that's even more dodgy

[glossy warren]

gonna have to go with mr gators on this one
it's just a marauder fight with extra stages

I found it VERY underwhelming

[vagrant estuary]

Is the Sentinel hammer only applicable through the dlc?

[idle cargo]

Have fun fighting the same nerfed Gladiator phase five times

[glossy warren]

gladiator was a harder boss fight

[azure oriole]

It is very easy for me to look past poor gameplay design if the atmosphere and music are top tier.

[glossy warren]

yea but you cant rely on music and setting to up it

[idle cargo]

I mean at least you admit its not well designed mechanically

[glossy warren]

tbf to davoth it's cause the dev's didnt have enough time

[azure oriole]

I agree. I also don't mind him gameplay-wise. Not very well designed but not insultingly bad by any means.

[glossy warren]

I can guarantee you it would've been fuciing amazing if they had time

[idle cargo]

Lemme guess

Mightiest Warrior is that disgusting thing they dare call “Cyberdemon”

[azure oriole]

Doom 3 Cyberdemon yeah.

[idle cargo]

🤮

[glossy warren]

opinions guys!!!!

[azure oriole]

Yeah... that makes Davoth's fight seem like high art. Mona Lisa shit.

[idle cargo]

Also

[vagrant estuary]

How do you get the Sentinel hammer?

[glossy warren]

you get it in tag 2

wait which one is it I keep forgoruing

[idle cargo]

Sabaoth is basically Doom Hunter before it was a thing

[vagrant estuary]

what is tag2?

[glossy warren]

the ancient gods 2, the 2nd dlc

it's in the world spear level

[azure oriole]

Sabaoth is great.

[vagrant estuary]

oh

[idle cargo]

One detail I really like about the 2016 Spider Mastermind

She starts twitching and contorting like real insects do while dying when she is at low heath

[azure oriole]

Yeah it's raw as fuck.

[glossy warren]

very satisfying

shit now I sound sadistic as hell

[idle cargo]

No, its a demon

Relish in its suffering

[ruby epoch]

Somone say hi noe

[glossy warren]

hi

[ruby epoch]

I cant edit my message

[idle cargo]

BTW who do you think wins in a fight

Doom Slayer or Monsterverse Godzilla

[ruby epoch]

who you talking to

[idle cargo]

Chat in general

MV Godzilla is physically stronger than MUTO Prime, a Titan who can physically shift tectonic plates. His atomic breath (which moves almost at the speed of light) also burned a giant hole through 5000km of the Earth’s crust in 10 seconds.

[ruby epoch]

well technically doom guy can take out anything so like ... godzilla would die

Just lie and say its a demon lol

[foggy stratus]

no he cant

[ruby epoch]

He beat the devil himself so like gozilla is just a mutant

[idle cargo]

The Devil while most likely a cripple in a robot suit

[ruby epoch]

God over Like a mutant with no god powera

[glossy warren]

he took out the icon which is lore-wise strong enough to tear the fabric of reality by breathing or some shit

[idle cargo]

No, as a side effect of him existing. But thats not combat applicable

[glossy warren]

would've been cool if the setting shifted physically in the background during the icon fight

like it distorted or smth

[ruby epoch]

well its basically a god versus a mutant lizard so i think he wins

[glossy warren]

demigod, but yea

[ruby epoch]

yeah that

doom guys backstory is so sad... but he will rein vengence As long as he breathes

[azure oriole]

can u save in classic mode master levels

[ruby epoch]

i want the cool gold horderush skin

Untill i get my gold one

[rigid gorge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbQrqBvIZd4&ab_channel=TheBeansprout

https://www.nexusmods.com/doometernal/mods/69

All you have to do is place files in the right places.

[ruby epoch]

im playing horde nightmare easy

[rigid gorge]

You don't need discords for it? What

[rigid gorge]

Do horde nightmare without dying and with a challenge I describe as anti-meta then talk

oh right meathook

[inland oxide]

Ngl, I genuinely love fighting those cyber demons, mowing them down and glory killing them makes me feel so badass

[terse cave]

Any tips for nightmare-ultra nightmare

[inland oxide]

Don't die :>

[terse cave]

Dammm

[inland oxide]

Jk, I am still yet to beat level 2 on ultra nightmare lol

[terse cave]

Same

[inland oxide]

I failed extra life mode on nightmare on level 2 as well XD

I need practice lol

[terse cave]

Im playing ultra so I dont have to restart all the campaign

Luckly I only have 1 dead and the first 2 levels 100%

[inland oxide]

I've been practicing a lot of horde mode, the random guns really help you learn to use each gun in different scenarios, perhaps that could help?

[terse cave]

I know some tricks like a easy combo for the marauder

But maybye that could help

[inland oxide]

Yeah, I still struggle a little with the marauder, mainly when there's more demons I gotta focus on, like a baron or something

[terse cave]

Just use the super shutgun and the balista

[inland oxide]

Yeah lol

[terse cave]

You kill him in 6 shots

[craggy forge]

??? It's always taken me 8
4ssg blasts and 4 ballista shots

[inland oxide]

Close enough

[ruby epoch]

im a noob i can talk

[inland oxide]

Can you use the crucible blade on marauder?

The first marauder?

I find them perfectly fine on their own, just not with any big demons alongside them

[flint flame]

You have to stun first then bfg

[inland oxide]

Gigachads melee the marauder to death

[flint flame]

[inland oxide]

Aside from the marauder, what are you guys' fave and least fave demons to fight?

[craggy forge]

Aechviles shouldn't exist

[inland oxide]

Yeah xD

My faves are the Cyberdemon and the Doom Hunter

But yeah, least fave has to be Archvile xD

[craggy forge]

I like cybers they don't have any gimmicks you just shoot them until they die

[ruby epoch]

Spoon eternal Coming soon! with Eternal cereal

[inland oxide]

Yeah basically, I love the spray and pray element, although tbh, I do occasionally feel like ignoring weak points and just start spraying demons down with the quad-barrelled chaingun

[glossy warren]

I love chaingun

[craggy forge]

Is speedrunning ultra nightmare a valid way of getting the gold skin?
I don't want to fight any more archviles

Play I'm too young to die
It makes it easy, if not then just treat it like a harder version of the normal game

[inland oxide]

Oooo that sounds like an interesting run :>

I'd probably play it on hurt me plenty, bc I still somewhat want a challenge :>