doom-eternal

[crimson yarrow]

Not to mention how the mastery is a pretty good bandaid for the quick ammo depletion

(Most of the time)

[jaunty vapor]

Oh boy my favorite topic

[azure oriole]

time for bloodshot to type an essay from his video

[slow sigil]

Fun fact: it only has a fraction more more dps then ssg, even ir you are not quickswapping or any of the such with the ssg
And even then, it is usually less ammo efficient aswell for... some darn reason

But i do agree, dps matters more then ammo cost, sadly enough FA has neither

[jaunty vapor]

There's two things wrong with your line of thinking. 1 is that DPS rarely matters, it's Time To Kill that matters. Mobile Turret may theoretically have better DPS than PB, but PB literally is an insta kill on several different demons (imps, soldiers, etc).

But alsooooooo
Full Auto, at best, does 320 per shot at POINT BLANK. Its damage fall off is so great that you normally do 280 even when close to enemies.
SSG does 1600 if all pellets hit, and it has less damage fall off for whatever reason, so the range you can actually do max damage is greater than Full Auto.

So for Full Auto to deal more "DPS" than SSG, it needs to do 1600 or more damage faster than SSG can in one shot, OR it has to do 3200 damage in the time it takes to do 3 SSG shots.

This means you need to do at least 10 full auto shots AT POINT BLANK faster than you can do two SSG shots. Which maybe without fast loader you can do? But even then the timing is tight

And this doesn't even mention quick swapping which of course makes SSG faster DPS than Full Auto

Keep in mind that was me being generous by assuming you're ever going to be able to get all 10 shots to deal the full 320. More likely, it'll be 280, meaning you need to do "11.4" shots i.e. 12 shotgun shots to deal more than 3200.

So you get at best a smidgen more "DPS", for 3x the ammo. And even with Salvo Extender refunding 7 ammo, that'd still be 5 ammo vs. SSGs 4 ammo.

[severe ermine]

anyone know why the doom eternal wiki doesnt have all weapon skins?

[jaunty vapor]

So no, we can't agree the weapon mod is good because it factually, mathematically, is worse.

[severe ermine]

im trying to get some other skins

[slow sigil]

A smidgen more dps if you arent doing any type of switching, which noone does

Even it's mastery is useless because you can't get back ammo for other guns, meaning you still will have to chainsaw at the same pace, making the mastery kinda useless

[azure oriole]

FA fits more in Doom 2016 than DE

[jaunty vapor]

I am very curious to see these numbers and how you got them though.

If you'd like to see MY numbers and where I got them, here you go. In one of those videos should be a spreadsheet that shows all the shots-to-kill every demon.

https://youtu.be/75weEtOsuWw

https://youtu.be/FUsqM82W3-U

[slow sigil]

And triple burst fits more in eternal

[jaunty vapor]

And ironically, Charged Burst fits Doom Eternal more than 2016 lol

[urban sapphire]

how do you get the unicorn suit

[slow sigil]

Like idk their decision to make eternal's combat more "swapbased" and then make weaponmods that.... rely on NOT swapping

[azure oriole]

Speaking with sense. FA ruins the flow of DE

[slow sigil]

Like how do you expect the player to get in that swap mindspace if you give them weaponmods that encourage you to keep clinging on that weapon??

Fast to use> swappable cooldowns (like PB) makes you naturally want to swap more

Even with mastery you are, just a tiny sliver less

[azure oriole]

mastery does nothing :/

[slow sigil]

But that does bring up that full auto guns DONT EVEN FIT THE LOW AMMO ETERNAL WANTS TO GO FOR

Full auto guns plain simply do not fit eternal's combat loop design

[azure oriole]

as luci said DE relies more on Quick Swaps of weapons not sticking to 1 and pressing mb1.

[slow sigil]

Except hc and hc because those arent even made to do DPS, they are made to do a short burst against fodder to put them in gk state

[azure oriole]

you can quick swap with the plasma bean which stuns enemies, mayo made video on that.

Full auto, plasma and mobile turret are bad

[slow sigil]

Not really, swaps do more DPS and mt's only purpose is dps

[azure oriole]

Mobile turret is terrible

[slow sigil]

And micro missiles

[slow sigil]

Yeah but doing damage almost always is better then stunning them with mbeam, epsecailly because damage itself can stun too

[crimson yarrow]

The wiki claims it has a 2560 DPS, while the super shotgun deals 1600 per shot which combined with reload takes about a second if not more, hence 1600 DPS (or less). Your video is actually what inspired me to write this, seeing as you don't seem to know the difference between DPS and amount of shots needed to kill, which takes into consideration the importance of fire rate - not just raw damage. (To avoid confusion: DPS stands for damage per second, not damage per shot)

[high yacht]

Whats the worst gun in the game

[jaunty vapor]

I'm aware DPS means damage per second. That still doesn't matter all that much when TTK is usually a bigger factor for Doom Eternal.

Anyways, if you want the actual damage numbers, there's a pinned message in this discord that has the actual damage values of each weapon. I wouldn't trust the wiki in that regard

[azure oriole]

Pistol <:

[crimson yarrow]

Likewise the video "Doom Eternal Full Auto How's its DPS?" shows that a tyrant takes 12 seconds less to kill with FA than sticky bombs even WITH a mid-way chainsaw

[crimson yarrow]

TTK and DPS are directly tied though, for what I assume are obvious reasons

[high yacht]

Wrong game i mean in doom eternal

[azure oriole]

pistol doom eternal has it own pistol in console commands locked

and it is the exact same piece of trash as from D2016

[jaunty vapor]

They're close but when you start adding quick switching, suddenly things get weirder. Cause youd otherwise need to add a DPS for every theoretical weapon swap, etc.

[azure oriole]

In DE it does not have Inf ammo

[high yacht]

And i mean normal guns not command ones

[azure oriole]

every weapon is good for their own things if we gonna talk about weapon mods then, there is their own category.

[crimson yarrow]

Quick-switching is its own beast because while it does produce more damage it's also more demanding, so it's a risk Vs. reward type of thing

[azure oriole]

Oh damn that just mean it’s good then!!!

[jaunty vapor]

It's definitely not risky to quick swap

[azure oriole]

There’s no risk

bro mars core slayer gate is making me want to punch a hole in my wall

[crimson yarrow]

With quicks-witching you have to be more skillful when it comes to timing which if you screw up is definitely risky. Also spamming the Q button in the correct pattern (which again, isn't effortless) denies you the ability to strafe left while you're shooting

[slow sigil]

There is really not much timing in quickswitching though

[azure oriole]

that's why you have binds instead of Q button

[crimson yarrow]

What do you mean?

[slow sigil]

Well, there is, but it's really not too hard

[jaunty vapor]

Wait Q? XD Most players use specific weapon binds for quick swaps, rather than the weapon wheel

[azure oriole]

you can bind your weapon keybinds

[jaunty vapor]

For me Q is rockets

[slow sigil]

Why even bind weapon wheel at all

[crimson yarrow]

Also, by this logic literally any weapon mode is useless because quick-switching produces the most DPS, why is full-auto being picked on in particular?

[crimson yarrow]

But you still have to nail a correct pattern for whatever button you choose, no?

[slow sigil]

Cause people claim it is good while it definitely is not
Also lil meme war

[azure oriole]

What if you just… dont screw up. Like what

[azure oriole]

you have but it ain't that hard

[crimson yarrow]

But they claim everything is good, nobody minds lock-on praise even though it literally has LOWER DPS THAN FA

[azure forum]

You guys are all wrong for not using the almighty weapon wheel

[azure oriole]

I have half of my weapons close TO WSAD and SSG and rocket to mb5 and mb4

[azure oriole]

If you read previous posts without jumping to conclusions to support your take you’d see other weapon mods were discussed, you just decided to ignore that I guess

[jaunty vapor]

Because of several reasons, but most notably because even without quick swapping SSG has better single target DPS, and Sticky Bombs have the practical applications of:
"Infinite' range with no damage fall of
Each single shot does more damage, even with just the aoe
It DOES aoe so it has more practical uses than just single target
And it actually can crit, unlike FA

[crimson yarrow]

Maybe not in a game that demands you constant well timed button presses in other areas already, but for me it always leaves me a bit too tired

[slow sigil]

If you use SLOB it doesnt have less, and uhhh it definitely doesnt have less DPS? Like that's fairly noticable

[jaunty vapor]

And as Kyle said, we did mention that mostly Micro Missiles and Mobile Turret are quote unquote useless.

The only saving graces they have is they're typically better for beginners

[patent stream]

You can bind weapons to buttons

[azure forum]

Because it is garbage. No other reason really

[jaunty vapor]

Compared to Full Auto being extremely unforgiving, and generally worse than other options.

[patent stream]

It’s painful to bind weapons to buttons? I would suggest checking with a doctor

[crimson yarrow]

You don't understand my argument. I'm saying that yes, it IS rewarding to pull off the harder thing, but that is incomparable to the thing that performs worse but is easier. That's why people still use lock-on even though PB-rocket is more damaging, because it's easier

[slow sigil]

Nah because people claim it'w good, especially for it's mastery (which is useless and kinda a trap ngl)

[azure oriole]

just because you think weapon swapping is hard and “timed button presses” doesn’t mean it is for everyone

[crimson yarrow]

Oh wow, why didn't I think of that, what a genius counterargument

[patent stream]

Genius cuz its true

[timid plank]

Dawg, I heard you like Doom, so I put some Doom inside your Doom so you could play Doom while you’re playing Doom

[azure oriole]

But people who are taking advantage of the games systems are using lock on with EXPLOITS lol

[crimson yarrow]

https://youtu.be/meY1VTQ-HLc

[azure oriole]

regular lock on isn’t going to beat proper swapping, only SLOB

and even then I don’t know much about it since lock on is fucking boring and i never use it

[slow sigil]

Ngl knowing that you can weaponswap is the most intensive, cause like learning how to swap with your buttons on q, e, r, and f for the main 4 weapons it really doesnt take much to get into it

[jaunty vapor]

This is again where DPS vs. TTK sort of matters.

I haven't done the number crunching, but even if PB rocket has better DPS than lock on, a single lock on kills a hell knight, so it'd be better to do a lock on against them than to PB rocket in a majority of situations.

[azure oriole]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again I pray to the maykrs above that lock on is gone in the inevitable sequel

[azure forum]

It's OK to be fan of a bad weapon Mod. Nothign wrong with it

[azure oriole]

Goodbye chaingun shield aswell

[patent stream]

Now every gun gets lock on

[jaunty vapor]

I'd like it to be reworked but if id can't make it interesting, I'd agree it should just be removed at this point.

[patent stream]

Every gun has lock on. Shield is an equipment. And half the enemies operate on a flashlight mechanic,

[slow sigil]

Triple shot for csg could be cool again for next game, with interesting mastery ofc if they do that again

[azure oriole]

True they could make it work, I’m also interested to see in general how swapping is gonna work in the next game. Since I’d assume they don’t want another precision bolt meta.

[crimson yarrow]

"Because of several reasons, but most notably because even without quick swapping SSG has better single target DPS"-again, like that's... not true. FA has 320 damage per shot and fires over 5 shots per second (I tested) which is 1600.

Range is definitely not infinite considering the drop of of not the damage but the physical projectile
Why does single shot matter more than DPS when you essentially have infinite ammo in this game from 2 (and with this mode 3) different sources?

Personally I only use sticky bombs for early game cacos and weakpoints

[slow sigil]

Every enemy can be killed by only 1 specific weaponmod

[patent stream]

And purple goo everywhere

[slow sigil]

Ngl but fa always felt slower then 5 shots/second idk why

[patent stream]

Also the file has a 50% chance to delete itself upon loading

[azure oriole]

Uh you’re forgetting the part where you swap the SSG and shoot it AGAIN

[azure oriole]

will there be crocodiles ? hunting you in a goo instead of tentacles ?

[azure forum]

This guy wrote a whole paragraph of literally nonsense?

[timid plank]

I have a question, does chaingun shield give you full invulnerability or is your back exposed like a realistic shield?

[patent stream]

Invisible tentacles

[patent stream]

360 shield

[crimson yarrow]

TTK is defined by DPS. No other way about it. Only exception is tyrant where you can run out of ammo and in which case you can just switch and use a different one, which will be supported by the damage you already did until this point and finish him quicker than if you were to use sticky bombs for example

[patent stream]

All around

[azure oriole]

Invisible big tentacles

[slow sigil]

You have godmode except for 4 or 5 attacks in the entire game, 3 of which are ground AOE

[timid plank]

Damn that’s crazy

[crimson yarrow]

3 times the DPS of sticky bomb isn't bad, lol

[azure oriole]

TTK DPS yadda yadda look full auto is not good

[slow sigil]

And the other ones are from the gladiator boss

[azure forum]

So tell me something, I want to hear it from you. What's so good about FA?

[azure oriole]

You’ll find yourself having much more success deadswapping SSG

[timid plank]

Is it me or is gladiator boss extremely easy

[slow sigil]

It has a high damage per seco-
Oh wait

[azure oriole]

go for ultra nightmare

[timid plank]

No

[slow sigil]

Died on my furthest base UN run there
Didnt continue doing UN on it much after

[azure forum]

Here comes the shells back, combo finisher, etc.

[patent stream]

The only good part of full auto is that the idea of a fully auto rotating shotgun was cool. That’s about it.
Maybe if it actually had better range and shot faster it woulda been better

[crimson yarrow]

So I both didn't read something (and therefore didn't know about it) and decided to ignore it, what an amusing contradiction.

[crimson yarrow]

Alright, so... again - D. P. S.

[slow sigil]

Ngl base fire with FA is pretty cool

[azure oriole]

You said what you said. I corrected you. You can be ignorant to it that’s fine.

[patent stream]

Yeee the rotating cylinder

[azure forum]

So, I should use FA instead of PB rockets for example?

[azure oriole]

and also you should stay on the ground to deal more damage cuz yk airborne It will suck

SSG Ballista OP!!!!!

[patent stream]

Also you should be right in front of the demon

[patent stream]

This but unironically

[azure oriole]

[patent stream]

Wonder what the next update is ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[slow sigil]

Imagine if PB swaps didnt work and we only hsd ssg bal and bal roxkets 🤢

[azure forum]

Apparently it is FA

[slow sigil]

Ngl considering how many weapon mods there are the fact that only 4-5 swap combinations are actually good is dumb

[azure oriole]

Shout out the time I got PB swaps patched out the game for like 2 weeks or something

God it was awful, that was during the FNF tourneys too lmaoooo

[patent stream]

Hacking in battlemode smh.

[crimson yarrow]

I think of it like this - the automatic weapons in this game produce less damage, but they're also easier to use. I think that balances it so that both playstyles are viable. Even with quickswitching, PB and SSG have higher damage but PB is arguably clunkier to use from close range compared to ballista - so which do you choose, the one that is easier to screw up or the one that takes longer to kill? Not one objectively right decision, it's all about perspective.

[azure forum]

I heard that you were using FA at that point

[slow sigil]

I liked how it was such a disliked change they fucking reverted it in just 2 weeks lol

[azure oriole]

[azure oriole]

Excuse me 🤨 I would never

[azure forum]

Ypu can use FA as much as you want. It is a game. Use it, have fun with it. It does not remove the fact that it is a bad mod. That's the point son

[azure oriole]

Yeah game felt so bad and clunky

[crimson yarrow]

But I didn't "decide to ignore" it, I just didn't see it and saw had no idea it existed. Also, thank you for not directly pointing to the evidence to your claim, very credible that

[azure oriole]

bruh just scroll up I don’t need to provide you shit

[slow sigil]

Okokok but what about...
Burst weapons that incentives you to swap away from them, making new players get into the swap style gameplay
No way good game development!

[patent stream]

I don’t really see how the automatics are “easier to use”. As it stands this game doesn’t reward the use of automatic weapons, either with the speed of the enemies or just much lower damage output.

The single shot weapons are easier to use and have a bigger hitbox for demons, as well as just doing so much more damage with minimal effort.

[crimson yarrow]

But it's not, I don't know why you keep ignoring my arguments

[slow sigil]

Wait wdym pb is harder to use close range, you know you usually shoot it BEFORE you zoom right

[azure forum]

Where's bloodshot when we need someone to combat these FA arguments?

[slow sigil]

Idk he must have gone afk, can't even see him typing

[jaunty vapor]

Full Auto also has spin up time to consider, and other opportunity costs such as reduced sensitivity when holding alt fire and I believe reduced movement, though don't quote me on that one I'm at work so forgive me for not being able to test everything.

As far as the infinite ammo part, while yes you do, in the heat of the moment in a fight, especially something like a master level or modded content, having that extra ammo and/or slight advantage of being able to look away and meathook, or to do AoE, or whatever else is more beneficial than FAs possible slight buff to a single target DPS.

I mean maybe you've figured out something, cracked the code that has alluded every speedrunner and challenge runner under the sun for 2-3 whole years. If so, make a video and show off how it's better, or whatever.

As others have said, if you like the weapon that's absolutely fine. And I understand me saying "most people at a high level don't use it" isn't "proof", I've put in the effort to show how FA is generally worse before and I'm currently using discord mid work so I can't decide all the time I want to explaining ever small facet of why in a Speedrun, in a modded level, or for a beginner, why FA is generally worse than the other options

[crimson yarrow]

I still swap for enemies with 2 weakpoints and turrets, but if the devs didn't want us to use automatics then why include 3 (4 if we include) of them - essentially taking up half the arsenal?

[slow sigil]

Idk where bloodshot went

[strange gale]

pb clunkier than bal at close range? do you not have the presence of mind to just not hold mod button for so long that the zoom becomes a factor

[patent stream]

If the devs actually wanted us to use the automatics they wouldn’t have shafted them as hard as they did by making the single shot weapons VASTLY superior

[jaunty vapor]

I already did above tbh but I'm one man on a phone, can only do so much

[crimson yarrow]

Yes, if you want to have an easier time doing a lot of damage. No, if you want to do more damage but risk missing/screwing up the timing/etc

[azure oriole]

this again? Who’s missing and screwing up weapon swaps in 2022???

[crimson yarrow]

I didn't say it's harder, I said it's arguably clunkier. Also shooting before it zooms in, again, requires good timing.

[azure forum]

Man I never thought someone was going to tell me that one day

[slow sigil]

Basically, what i'm guessing, is that the automatic weaponmods where made earlier on in development then that they wanted to make it swap based
In the super gore nest demo hugo said literally nothing was really that great in place yet lmfao, and the weapon mods where already out

[patent stream]

Risk missing sounds like a skill issue. And not something full auto would fix. If you cannot aim and need to use full auto to hit i would assume the user is already playing on a lower difficulty where it doesnt matter how they play

[jaunty vapor]

Also if someone's missing PB rockets, they're missing pellets with full auto as well which also lowers dps

[azure oriole]

ive been trying to beat this one slayer gate for an hour

[strange gale]

"good timing" you just press mod button and then fire immediately after. you're not hitting a specific timing. you just do it as fast as possible.

[azure oriole]

good explanation + correct teaching, will teach the person to properly quick scope with pb.

[crimson yarrow]

I like how everyone here is pretending like I'm dismissing quick-switching as "inferior" where all I'm saying is that it's up to you if you want something simpler or something more rewarding 😐

[slow sigil]

Pressing 2 buttons right after each other is barely timing, you sont need to do something like wait half a second you can literally tap it the frame after or even during i thought

[azure oriole]

You actually can just cut out the middle man and simply hold right click during swaps for PB, you don’t even need to click it

Just hold the button lmaoo it’s so easy

[patent stream]

Everyone already knows how simple it is to use FA by holding one button. The argument is that its not good and worse than pretty much every other method in the game

[strange gale]

with rem det equipped you remove mod button as a factor entirely

[azure oriole]

Yeah I think holding down doesn’t work with lock on, only remote det

[patent stream]

Something even more simple, without any restrictions, would be just spamming stickies,which break weakpoints kill cacos, cause explosions and use minimal ammo

[azure forum]

At this point in game, you can completely remove the mod switch button from the game. Only FA fans will miss it

[slow sigil]

Also, for some reason nade swap is in the game, despite only having 2 nades available. It makes no sense but it's still ingame. Just because it's in the game doesnt mean it's good or even that the devs are really happy with it. Deadlines and all that

[azure oriole]

Ballistas mods are both great let’s be real

[strange gale]

nah, modswap cancels + bats are useful everywhere

[patent stream]

Arbelast vs air and destroyer vs everything else

Also destroyer looks cool as hell

[slow sigil]

Yeah but arb is just slightly less great, still banger but rip

[azure forum]

Aight aight ballista mods hold the fort

[slow sigil]

Hmm yes bats, very practical

[strange gale]

does pb MSC bal -> pcancel loop sound like a massive hurdle to you

[crimson yarrow]

Spin-up feels virtually nonexistent for me once upgraded. Same for sensitivity. I suppose those are to the user. Or maybe 6.66 changed things since you last tried.

I have no problem both meathooking away and focusing on 1 target when a good opportunity presents itself.

FA is definitely not for speedrunning, again quick-switching is for the highest skill play. FA is just more fun for due to how less demanding it is to use.

[strange gale]

that's like the most basic shit you can do with it and it's still useful

[slow sigil]

Yes cause i forgot what MSC is

[azure oriole]

Only time microwave beam was ever viable was when you used it against 10 HP demons in Battlemode, and they took it out of the fucking mode 😞

[urban sapphire]

are marauders just sentinels that got turned into demons or something else

[patent stream]

As long as it makes you happy

[azure oriole]

More fun? You think it’s more fun.

[crimson yarrow]

But it's not. Again, other than quick-switching, it has some of the best DPS when it comes to simple and easy using weapons that allow you to more easily focus on other things (which the game gives you a lot of)

[crimson yarrow]

I mean yeah, that's what Doom is about no?

[patent stream]

It also limits your speed and range

[azure oriole]

well... you need to stand on the ground close to a demon and knowing that fact In nightmare difficulty... you will die in 0.1second

[slow sigil]

FA being "more fun" is heavily subjective, i really dont like the automatic mods cause they just feel so boring... no thinking required but aim

[patent stream]

Obviously

[jaunty vapor]

If you want to do a comprehensive "is it better", bind livesplit or another timer to your FA bind. Start on Heavy Rifle, then swap to FA, and kill something as fast as possible. Then do the same with SSG. Etc. This will include the spin up time for FA, etc, so it should be a definitive "DPS" test for each demon.

I'd argue there's more to it than just that since in a fight, you'd have a lot of other factors, but in the end of you can do Unreclaimed Earth with FA, more power to you.

[crimson yarrow]

But it feels kinda condescending to be like "enjoy your BAD weapon, kiddo" so I appreciate if people here would stop doing that and just engage with my arguments only

[strange gale]

wh is dropping pb rl timings in 2022 anyway, window unironically feels like a quarter of a second or something

[crimson yarrow]

range being limited by a shotgun is kind of a given, also speed is full as of 6.66 fully upgraded

[azure oriole]

Nobody is doing that tho, you’re the one that’s making up fluff arguments to support your love for a bad weapon mod

[patent stream]

I mean it is bad. If you like it you like it. But there are almost no valid points to try and make on why its good when its not. If you like it you like it, but liking it wont make it better.

[azure oriole]

“It’s too hard you have to time button presses” come on 🤣

[slow sigil]

We only say it's bad if people claim it's good, claiming you like using it despite it's shortcomings is something else

[azure oriole]

yeah go ahead and use FA, doesn’t make it good tho 😳

[crimson yarrow]

Maybe not, but doing so in a quick succession kind of is, it's almost like a semi-rhythm game that way

[patent stream]

Quickswapping is also not a high level form of skill. Quickswapping is eternals gameplay. Once you go into techs and what not, thats high level gameplay. But quickswapping itself is just switching weapons effectivley

[jaunty vapor]

_>

You came in here and said "can we all just admit it's good" which is condescending to everyone who put in 2 years of practice and research into weapons though.

You also said it had double the DPS of SSG which is absolutely incorrect

[strange gale]

what even is the argument? "more fun"? sure, enjoy it. great. "better at low level" compared to what? the execution of quickswaps? spamming ssg without even deadswapping is still more dps

[slow sigil]

I just hope ID learns of what they did in eternal and makes the next game better qua mods, that more in line with what they want the gameplay loop to be

[crimson yarrow]

I don't think I said that, but if I did then I didn't mean it in a condescending way.

[patent stream]

Next game will focus only on quick swaps. 8 single shot weapons

[slow sigil]

Hell just spamming the punchswap buttons also does a lot of swaps

[patent stream]

They all perform the same

Except some only work on certain demons

[azure oriole]

Bloodshot it has double the DPS… if you shoot it for 30 seconds straight

[strange gale]

on keeb you can genuinely just mash punch + ssg bind and get stupid damage completely accidentally

[slow sigil]

Ngl fully focused on quick swaps woule be cool, imagine if there where 15 cool swap options instead of just 4

[jaunty vapor]

Tbh you're fine.

And I do think people are giving you more grief about quick swapping than they should, and I don't agree with that.

[crimson yarrow]

"You also said it had double the DPS of SSG which is absolutely incorrect"-then maybe the wiki is wrong then, I'll test it myself to make sure then

[patent stream]

They all do exactly the same tho

[slow sigil]

And also good and unique weaponmods that have their special effects to swap to

[patent stream]

The wiki <

The wiki is almost never right

[azure oriole]

Fextralife moment

[jaunty vapor]

I wonder how many walls the wiki says are in Doom Eternal

[azure oriole]

who checks the wiki anyways?

[patent stream]

At least 3

[strange gale]

i wouldn't trust the doom eternal wiki(s) on anything that's not in the codex, and even then they still get shit wrong. the people running them haven't played the game in two years

[jaunty vapor]

To be fair, who checks a random discord pinned comment XD

[slow sigil]

What about 8 fully automatic weapons that do the same thing without viable swapping? 9 seconds to swap guns

[jaunty vapor]

Imagine putting actual stats in your video game. Who'd do such a thing. Who wants STATS and NUMBERS

[patent stream]

We have pins?

[azure oriole]

Nerds

[jaunty vapor]

My favorite is still the whole "BLOOD PUNCH BRRAKS ARMOR" and really it's just that most enemies that visually have armor are just scripted to take more damage from BP as a whole

[patent stream]

U mean. Its fake?

[slow sigil]

wdym it literally breaks the armour in the model

[patent stream]

Ive been bamboozled. I want my money back

[azure oriole]

I can’t remember the last time I seen damage numbers in eternal

[jaunty vapor]

Who would do that?
Go on the internet and tell lies?

[patent stream]

No…..it cant be true…… Hugo no….

[slow sigil]

Remembee kids, everythint on the internet is the truth and vaccines cause autism

[jaunty vapor]

Abraham Lincoln told me that

[sullen depot]

Is there an encounter in the game that has a tyrant and blood maykr combo?

[crimson yarrow]

From my experience FA and SSG have just about the same DPS, I find SSG better when I want to sneak in a quick shot and then move on to a different target and FA when I want to finish a fucker off on the spot

But FA always seemed to do slightly more

[patent stream]

Holt i believe

[jaunty vapor]

I believe World Spear ML has 2 Tyrants and a Blood Maykr in the end of the level.

2nd to last in Immora also has a BM after damaging a Tyrant to about half I think

[sullen depot]

Cuz I'm making a video and I wanna elaborate on demon combos like that onr

[azure oriole]

i finally beat the mars core slayer gate after an hour

my hands hurt

[azure oriole]

Good job

im using a completely new controller setup so my hands hurt BAD

skull

[jaunty vapor]

Holt Spirit Tyrant Bridge has a BM after the Doom Hunter, which is after ONE of they'll Tyrants die, so that may be the best simple way to get just a Tyrant and a Blood Maykr

But it's not a great arena so Immora might be better for that.

[sullen depot]

So wait does immora have a tyrant and blood maykr combined?

[jaunty vapor]

Yes

[strange gale]

who DARES wish for anything CONSISTENT and RELIABLE in muh doom gaym

[crimson yarrow]

I just checked, using FA while a marauder is stunned always kills him in 2 cycles less than an SSG

[sullen depot]

Tysm

[crimson yarrow]

SSG ballista gives about the same results, btw

[slow sigil]

2 cycles less and you can fking 2 cycle him with bal ssg bal

[crimson yarrow]

(As FA, not SSG solo)

[azure oriole]

I am thinking did he used nades? cuz if not then mara just rushed him 2 times like a dumbo

[crimson yarrow]

Yeah... which is the same amount it took me with the oh so bad FA

[alpine plaza]

I'm having trouble in the tag1 urdak level

[crimson yarrow]

No, btw I can one cycle with FA with 2 nades

[alpine plaza]

I can't get to the last secret enconter

[crimson yarrow]

I believe Mayo showed that already

[alpine plaza]

I saw a green button in the ceiling but it doesnt seem to do anything

[azure oriole]

Just a reminder just because you can do something good with something doesn’t mean it’s better than the rest

which is what the whole point of this discussion was, it’s not good comparatively

[crimson yarrow]

I think it's really disappointing that we had people shit on this game for being uncreative and now the most hardcore fans shit on others for using half of the arsenal (automatics) just because it's not the most damaging way to go... but is the simple, which is a sacrifice some people prefer in order to play better

[patent stream]

Again, no one shits on someone for using the other weapons. Its when they claim its better that its not. The games core does not at all encourage the use of automatics.

[flint flame]

[jaunty vapor]

Tbf I think the "people shit on people for using something worse" thing is overblown. I always insist the weapons are "worse" but I don't berate people for actually using/liking them. It's usually when people come in saying "Guys this weapon is SECRET overpowered, and SO underrated".

No, it's rated rather accordingly half the time.

[crimson yarrow]

Then why the fuck is half the arsenal comprised of them? lol

[patent stream]

U tell me

Lol

[azure oriole]

Just because the game has things in it doesn’t mean they’re good

[sacred dirge]

Also not being good doesn't mean it isn't fun to use

[azure oriole]

may I introduce you to the word “meta”

[patent stream]

Keep in mind. I actually hate the overemphasis of quickswapping for this game. I WANT all weapons to be viable both auto and not.

Its undeniable that on nightmare, the automatics really dont cut it nearly as close as single shot

[patent stream]

Not the argument here

[azure oriole]

Nobody said that?

[random vault]

hi

[sacred dirge]

Just saying point take a deep breath lol

[azure oriole]

Huh

[jaunty vapor]

A lot of the weapons that are fully automatic are good/great for beginners. FA is... weird. Because it is simple to use (hold right click hold left click), but its damage fall off is very steep, and it teaches players to "get up close to a demon" which isn't the best advice in this game. Compare it to Stickies, which deal more damage, in an area, far away, and it teaches players more about the game than FA can.

It teaches them about the nuance between area of effect vs. single target, it teaches them "how to aim" (obviously its the only "arc" based weapon, but it still gives a skill ceiling to using it), and it teaches them about weak point breaking and/or critical hits.

[crimson yarrow]

To me in general saying something like "well you can enjoy that but it's still garbage trash fire piece of crap" (obvious hyperbole is obvious but you get the point) is sort of like a backhanded insult, like imagine someone saying that about any unpopular opinion that you (may) have

[crimson yarrow]

FA is not overpowered, but I do think it's underrated especially with how much people shit on it

[patent stream]

I mean it literally is bad, if you enjoy it you enjoy it 🤷‍♂️

[random vault]

breath of the wild

[azure oriole]

oh no the real world is so scary people don’t agree with my opinions

[sacred dirge]

I find FA alot of fun but yeah it isn't the best

[jaunty vapor]

It's not "bad". But it's "worse" than the other options. Which is technically different, but still

[sacred dirge]

🍪

[random vault]

cookie

[azure oriole]

Yum

[sacred dirge]

Looks like ya need one

I do too.

[azure oriole]

rip bloodshot

[opal galleon]

Lmao

[jaunty vapor]

WTF ugh jesus christ VEGA

[random vault]

bloodshot got vega’d
lol

[patent stream]

Also if someone said that about an opinion i have.

“Eh i still have fun with it”

Moves on

[azure oriole]

all his typing did go to hell

[sacred dirge]

Vega makes me sad sometimes

[crimson yarrow]

Well I don't know what to say other than I never feel like I'm crippling myself when I spray instead of quick switch, if anything it allows my ADHD brain to better focus on dodging, superweapons and equipment (both using and checking since I'm not doing a much simpler thing)

[azure oriole]

That’s the joy of video games, you buy them so you can play them how you want

[jaunty vapor]

People all the time say "speedruns aren't legit if they use glitches". Those people are fuckheads because who are they to deny someone else their enjoyment and instill their beliefs compared to the FACT that there is a leaderboard, curated by moderators, that says "This is the glitchless category, all of this is allowed, all of this isn't".

As long as I'm happy, and as long as I'm confident in whatever it is I'm doing/believe in, fuck the rest of the world.

[sacred dirge]

Ohhh. Yikes... that was your point.. my bad

[patent stream]

Then you are having fun and playin your way

[random vault]

what weapon are you talking about

im confused what convo is this

[jaunty vapor]

Only time I ever care about what anyone else is doing is if they're badmouthing others and being disrespectful, or generally just actually cheating and passing it off and legit (think "I completed this UN run first try blind!" even though in the post results screen, it shows they got the UN reward already, meaning they did the level before on UN at least one time so it's not blind)

[crimson yarrow]

That's valid too, but I think it's important to find the right balance between stubbornness and going with the flow all the time and never standing your ground and shit (not saying you do that)

[sacred dirge]

I'm always confused because I never read what anyone else is saying

[random vault]

same

wait hes talking about FA

[sacred dirge]

Don't you dare

[azure oriole]

best weapon mod in da game

[sacred dirge]

It is

[random vault]

did the dude really say FA helps with adhd brain

if yes that’s hilarious

[azure forum]

Just go enjoy the game son. Clearly you are a fan of the weapon.

[patent stream]

Using a subjective opinion based on objective data isn’t something one can “hold their ground on”. If you enjoy it and like it, then you enjoy it and like it, its. A game, games are for fun , you are having fun, you win.

But you cant try and argue “better this better that” when there is plenty of data and truth against it. Again, if you like it, and happen to use it how you want to and its working for you. But its not an argument worth having. Theres a reason why its been buffed like twice and still hated

[sacred dirge]

I use that shit and I don't let anyone here bully me about it. I mean it is kind of awesome to use

[crimson yarrow]

reject sticky bombs, embrace -full auto- using both (why can't I cross off words here)

[random vault]

i love fa, but only when theres 2 of them

[sacred dirge]

Stickys are better though. Need to understand that

[random vault]

it keeps my accounts secure

[opal galleon]

Lmao

[random vault]

add 2 ~ on both ends of a message

message

[crimson yarrow]

But I think that even objectively, the FA gets too much shit

[sacred dirge]

I don't know about that.

[patent stream]

And thats subjectively your opinion

[crimson yarrow]

People out here acting like it runs out of ammo in 1 second and fires water balloons

[patent stream]

Its now stalemate territory

[random vault]

fa worse then other mods, end of story

[azure oriole]

Hey that’s actually a good analogy for full auto

[sacred dirge]

I mean nothing you say here is going to get them to switch to FA. You find it fun though so it's all good

[patent stream]

Again, there is a reason why its been the only weapon buffed twice and still hated

[crimson yarrow]

Thank you for proving my point lol

[azure oriole]

Wow you proved it

[random vault]

❔

[crimson yarrow]

This is circular reasoning "why is it hated?" "Because it's bad" "Why is it bad" "Because there are reasons for it still being bad" like lets argue the reasons then

[patent stream]

The reasons have already been argued

[crimson yarrow]

I don't get how a weapon that can one cycle the marauder without quickswitching is so bad

[patent stream]

You are free to scroll up to the last like 2 hours of conversations

[opal galleon]

Hundreds of bloodshot quotes

[azure oriole]

It’s bad because it does nothing better than the other weapons in the games arsenal

[azure oriole]

Bloodshot Is doing his best

Bloodshot is in doom eternal... testing

[azure forum]

The only time I like FA is when the slayers use it in BM

[crimson yarrow]

Which I responded to...

[random vault]

ec on its way to have the same 4 convos on loop forever

[azure oriole]

And automatics are lackluster due to swaps being superior damage dealers

[opal galleon]

True

[azure oriole]

but hey this has ALREADY been stated prior but you can continue to ignore it

[opal galleon]

?

[random vault]

❔

[flint flame]

Bloodshot is in doom eternal

[random vault]

i am in doom eternal

[crimson yarrow]

"Shields in dark souls are bad because parries are quicker and produce more damage, nevermind ease of use that doesn't matter because I keep saying it doesn't matter"

[azure oriole]

Last time I checked I’m talking about Doom Eternal

[crimson yarrow]

Why do you keep ignoring my one rebuttal to you is the real question

[azure forum]

Imagine being so blind and stubborn after bloodshot showing all those numbers, videos, analysis and stuff

[patent stream]

Pretty horrible analogy since dark souls plays drastically differently

[azure oriole]

SkyOut. I’m gonna leave you with this final message. You’re a troll. That’s all, have a good day.

[crimson yarrow]

But what I said about Doom Eternal you keep ignoring, so...

[random vault]

are you comparing this shit to dark souls LMA

[crimson yarrow]

No counterarguments?

[azure oriole]

If you want to ignore everything you’ve been told and still keep up this shit ass personality then by all means keep doing it. I think we are done wasting our time on you homie

[sacred dirge]

Can I come ?

[crimson yarrow]

I mean both had game journalists complain about difficulty, so yeah

[random vault]

you may not come, keep your coming to yourself

[sacred dirge]

Ew

[crimson yarrow]

Bro, just respond to my ONE point lmfao

[random vault]

are you taking the words of game journalists with any sort of merit? if so thats just sad

[opal galleon]

But if you like it good for you keep using it

[slow sigil]

You can walk forwards in classic doom and super mario bros, totally the same game

[crimson yarrow]

Quickswitching produces better DPS but has a higher skill floor. Some may prefer to take less risks, some may not. JESUS....

[patent stream]

Actually eternal has platforming so its like odyssey

[crimson yarrow]

I didn't say it's the same game, that's why I only compared 1 aspect from them

[sacred dirge]

I mean the best case for your argument and it's something I do .. is record some clips and put them together show some benefits over sticky

[crimson yarrow]

No, I'm doing the opposite?...

[azure oriole]

We already said this 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[crimson yarrow]

Then why are you saying that one is better by ignoring how some would perform better with the lower floor?

[patent stream]

If you have fun you have fun play how you want doesnt make it better quickswapping isn’t nearly as high of a ceiling as you think it is it’s literally just the concept of switching weapons to suit the situation anything higher involves techs which is no longer the base core game play

[azure oriole]

https://tenor.com/view/jarvis-block-blocked-respond-message-gif-20972134

[crimson yarrow]

How do you know how high I think it is? I just said it's higher, not by how much

[patent stream]

Clearly by the past 2 hours

[crimson yarrow]

Thank you for showing that you are the real troll

[patent stream]

Even at the lowest floor using single shot ballista or ssg or rockets is better.

[crimson yarrow]

Source?

[azure forum]

At this point ignore him. He's a troll or someone is trying to troll haed.

[sacred dirge]

Guess it can seem overwhelming for a new player ?

[random vault]

blah blah blah, BRO SHUT UP, YOUR WEIRD!!!!!!!!

[slow sigil]

maybe they can take 10 minutes to learn how they can have more fun quickswapping? The dofference in skillflpor really isnt that big

[azure oriole]

This dude lives in his own world

[patent stream]

Its one button press to quickswap

[flint flame]

I prefer unreal.

[crimson yarrow]

I learned it and I have less fun with it. Why is that not valid?

[sacred dirge]

Drap and drop the file In the ZDL Bob!

[crimson yarrow]

I was talking about the timing but OK

[keen gorge]

I prefer Frostbi- oh the dev program crashed again

[patent stream]

It doesnt take much timing to shoot, click, shoot, click

[crimson yarrow]

Peak toxicity

[patent stream]

Its 2 buttons

[slow sigil]

Well in that case the skillfloor also doesn't matter

[opal galleon]

Clearly not serious

[keen gorge]

the skilling floor as it were

[patent stream]

You actually use the same number of buttons to full auto as you do to perform a basic quickswap

[crimson yarrow]

Sorry to the few good faith arguers but I can't go on like this

[sacred dirge]

I wouldn't get upset. I mean you use it as your main. That's fine. Just do your thing

[flint flame]

[random vault]

your such a silly fella

[azure forum]

Let's all just use FA and stop using quickswitching. We have been wrong all this time fam. Sorry to bring you the news. Time to reinvent the wheel.

[sacred dirge]

Okay. This is truth

[opal galleon]

The wheel has already been remade we are trapped in a timeloop

[patent stream]

Again. Have as much fun doing what you want, but its not better there is so much data to prove otherwise. Have fun, that’s what games are for, but what you find fun others might not, and you cant and dont have to try to convince others on it

[crimson yarrow]

Remember guys, I'm the troll for having an unpopular opinion, not the people attacking me lmao

[random vault]

lets all uninstall doom and be actually happy

[sacred dirge]

This a cool thing you might want to know about life. People won't always agree with you

[azure oriole]

Already did that

[opal galleon]

Already did that

[patent stream]

And again, very basic quickswapping is just hitting one button to go back and forth

[sacred dirge]

🇫 🇦

[azure forum]

*cries in stadia (doesn't even own the game) 😂

[crimson yarrow]

That's cool, what isn't is people throwing snarky jabs at me for no reason

[opal galleon]

(A blessing)

[sacred dirge]

I use FA all the time too. Bug everyone here about it. Just use it and keep doing you

[flint flame]

Snarky jabs would be us nerd-bobbing every message you post. We did not do that evidently

[opal galleon]

My lawyer doing work yet again

[crimson yarrow]

Despite all the strawman, here it is one last time - the game is designed for both casual and non-casual players to do good, I use automatics on nightmare and even on masterlevels I find the experience fun and rewarding even if not as rewarding as the harder (even if not infinitely harder) timing-based rhythmic quickswitching, which again I still use from time to time and always against turrets and weakpoints

[opal galleon]

[flint flame]

[patent stream]

And again, for the last time. As long as you have fun

[random vault]

why you delete the fist bump cat 😿

[sacred dirge]

https://imgur.com/a/S94ZvDM

[slow sigil]

Ngl i'm getting major deja vu, i'm feeling like i've seen this comment almost exactly oncluding bob saying that quickswitching is easy

[azure oriole]

Bloodshot is typing

[jaunty vapor]

Alright give me like

[crimson yarrow]

Thanks for the kind people here who didn't resort to bad faith, good to know Doom still has good fans🙏

[flint flame]

It wasn’t eternal related (didn’t have uac atlanticat)

[sacred dirge]

What's quick slopping

[jaunty vapor]

10 minutes.

I recorded it but I wanna actually upload it, long story short:
5 full auto shot = 1600 damage point blank
1 SSG shot = 1600 damage.

Swapping from PB to Full Auto and firing 10 shots = 2.07 seconds
Swapping from PB to SSG and firing 2 shots = 1.60 seconds

[crimson yarrow]

You like those new BCS episodes?

[jaunty vapor]

So SSG has a higher DPS than Full Auto, end of story. We good?

[sacred dirge]

Oh no... bloodshot brought math

[slow sigil]

Something you do while kneeling dw your parents will explain

[flint flame]

Yes

[crimson yarrow]

And how long did the 5 FA shots takes?

[opal galleon]

Subjectivity vs Objectivity omg no way this is incredible

[azure oriole]

Lmaooooo

[patent stream]

Eh math is too much im gone

[jaunty vapor]

You're kidding right

[crimson yarrow]

I think it's like 6 per second but I'm not sure

[jaunty vapor]

In literally no way can 5 full auto shots fire faster than 1 ssg shot

[crimson yarrow]

Wait nvm I thought the second paragraph was about quickswitching at first

[jaunty vapor]

I did no quick switching.

[crimson yarrow]

Didn't say that

What I meant by SSG DPS is spamming the base fire without quickswitching (which even I don't do so I guess it's not relevant)

So like how much on average a shot and a reload took

Since you compared the base fires in your video

[random vault]

hi

[sacred dirge]

🇫 🇦

[patent stream]

For anyone that missed it or switch users

https://slayersclub.bethesda.net/en/article/39whyPVoLjgOkf6i2eHGzh/quakecon-2022-doom-eternal-skin

This years quakecon skin is the 2020 quakecon skin

[sacred dirge]

Only for switch ?

[azure forum]

We still going fam?

[flint flame]

No, all platforms

[patent stream]

All platforms, switch launched a year later so never got the skin

[opal galleon]

Omg a free skin !!!😱

[sacred dirge]

I lost all my skins now that I'm on pc now anyways.

[crimson yarrow]

"
Swapping from PB to Full Auto and firing 10 shots = 2.07 seconds
Swapping from PB to SSG and firing 2 shots = 1.60 seconds"-OK, I'll give it a thought next time I play, thanks

[azure forum]

Same here. I lost a lot of skins out of nowhere

[flint flame]

Wait doesn’t that mean Bethesda’s just gonna push out the 2020 quake con merch again

[patent stream]

The skin will be, the merch i dont see any reason for

[sacred dirge]

You can get 2022 quakecon merch already

This year's a black quakecon mini

Slayer

And a quake quad damage statue

[patent stream]

Depends

What did you have in mind

What do you struggle with

If the heavy demon has a weakpoint, you will want to try and break that first

[quick jacinth]

Are skins only for battlemode? Sucks that the hotdog mancubus isnt here in my campaign

[patent stream]

Campaign has special damage mapping for destructible demons

To get demon skins to work every single skin would have needed its own damage map and Re coloring

[sacred dirge]

Shooting the hotdog is a weak point

[edgy vapor]

are these battlemode rewards new this time? or a rerun?

[burnt moss]

Dblade the group of them

[edgy vapor]

crucible

[burnt moss]

Use the destroyer blade mod of the ballista to cut down fodder and damage heavies all at once

[edgy vapor]

spam grenades

ice and explosive have separate cooldown

[edgy vapor]

are these battlemode rewards new this time? or a rerun?

[azure oriole]

none are new It's just a reset

[edgy vapor]

ok

[quick jacinth]

Ah didn’t know,thanks

[native mango]

Are they gonna add more stuff for the event pass

[dusk copper]

is there a mod that greatly lowers texture count or something so the game can run faster

[azure oriole]

I highly doubt we are getting any more new content besides possible Battlemode changes

and that’s unlikely too

[patent stream]

Game is for all intent and purpose done

Even if they wanted to add more stuff it’s been like a year

[dusk copper]

ok when you type stuff into the console does it save even when you close the game

[azure oriole]

No

You need to add it to the auto exec cfg or whatever

What the

[dusk copper]

how.

[azure oriole]

No clue I haven’t done it in ages I’m sure someone here knows

[twilit dune]

I been very unlucky in multiplayer lately

I pair up with bad people but I play against sweatlords lately

idk if it's because im more of a casual person now than how I used to...

[sand yarrow]

Go to your Users folder and click on the folder named after your PC Username. You will find a folder called "Saved Games." Click it and then click id software and go through to the Doom Eternal base folder, where you will find a config file that can be edited with Notepad. Paste any console commands that you want to be "always on" at the bottom of the document--one per line--and save the file.

[urban sapphire]

i swear to got blood makyrs will be the bane of my existence

[humble ruin]

Did any of y'all get the Quakecon 2020 skin?

[urban sapphire]

yeah idk what quakecon even is

but the skin is cool

[flint flame]

Con for quake

[humble ruin]

Broooo quakecon is where they announce all new quake/Doom content and do showcases for up and coming games.

[urban sapphire]

oh

but its 2022 why did they just now give me the skin

[flint flame]

It’s a 2020 skin that they decided to re release

[humble ruin]

[urban sapphire]

better call saul

[patent stream]

Switch missed out so that’s probably one reason. Other reason is they didn’t want to make more

[humble ruin]

Did any of y'all preorder the Phobos helmet?

[urban sapphire]

how do i get the unicorn skin

i want it so bad

[humble ruin]

Twitch prime

[urban sapphire]

what if i dont have twitch prime just twitch

[humble ruin]

Or can buy off ps store/Xbox store.

I dunno abt steam tho

[urban sapphire]

can i do the free trial

[humble ruin]

Maybe

[urban sapphire]

how much is the skin

[humble ruin]

The doomicorn prime pack is $4.99

[urban sapphire]

i am going to see if i can get it with a twitch prime free trial

[flint flame]

Not anymore

[urban sapphire]

oh

[flint flame]

Can’t do that anymore, only lasted for a month

[urban sapphire]

whoa theres a lot of skins you can buy

does anyone actually play battlemode or is it dead

[flint flame]

Depends on platform

[azure forum]

It is pretty active in most platforms I guess

[flint flame]

Switch is active I guess, pc kinda dead

[azure forum]

But by active, I mean, you might find matches and then you won't for a bit. Rinse and repeat

[sand yarrow]

Quon for cake

[urban sapphire]

cant you get free skins by linking to slayers club on past games

[urban sapphire]

xbox?

[humble ruin]

PS4 is still pretty live

[flint flame]

Yeah, doom 1-3 give color variations of the classic doom skin, doom 4 gives nothing ( ), quake gives the quake set, doom 64 gives no skins but a title and icon

[humble ruin]

I stopped playing eternal abt a year ago and now I come back and forget I had almost 100% completed the campaign... Besides my ultra nightmare run.

[urban sapphire]

what about 2016

[honest locust]

that's doom 4

[urban sapphire]

oh

[humble ruin]

I feel like the praetor skin should come from doom 4 not from the fortress of doom.

[urban sapphire]

why is there something so satisfying about loading cacodemons mouth with bombs

[honest locust]

I thought it was made by the sentinels

yeah

[humble ruin]

It would still be a decent addition.

[urban sapphire]

isnt doom slayer turned into a god after that one flashback before the gladiator fight (i havent read the lore thats just what im assuming?)

[spark saffron]

Mhm mhm

[urban sapphire]

and he was a senitnel before?

were archvilles designed with the purpose of being annoying

i feel like theyre the only enemy that isnt fun to fight

[flint flame]

“Uhm, akshually doom 4 was going to be a call of duty-inspired first person shooter”

[flint flame]

Nope, not a god

r/doom likes to think he’s a god, but he isn’t

[urban sapphire]

but he has godlike power thanks to the thingy on taras nabaad

[sacred dirge]

Odst

From everything I've seen there wasn't any actual cover system

Glory kills faster movement was all there

[urban sapphire]

how hard is getting platinum trophy for this game

[sacred dirge]

Seemed more like halo pace wise

[flint flame]

You gotta play battlemode

[urban sapphire]

i havent tried battlemode

[flint flame]

Not that big of an issue back during launch, but now it’s a ghost town

[urban sapphire]

dont you get to play as demons though

[azure oriole]

Not only do you have to play Battlemode

But you have to get the resurrection achievement 😞

[urban sapphire]

whats that

[flint flame]

Pain (no elemental)

[azure oriole]

good luck doing that without a friend

[urban sapphire]

huh

[azure oriole]

Basically you have to get someone to use the resurrect ability and then you have to kill the slayer within 5 seconds

not only is that ability trash so a majority of players will never take it, but you also need to kill the slayer right after you get revived. It’s a really poorly made achievement

[urban sapphire]

sounds annoying

[azure oriole]

like if you don’t have a friend, you will never get it

[urban sapphire]

but battlemode sounds fun because you can play as a marauder very cool

[azure oriole]

I have 1500 hours in eternal and about 800 or so of that has to be Battlemode and I do not have that achievement lmao

Battlemode is fun

Takes a bit to get used to but it’s definitely worth your time IMO

[urban sapphire]

also does anyone have any reccomendations on games similar to doom eternal i like how fast paced it is

[azure oriole]

Dusk

[flint flame]

It’s a really good game and I have made a ton of memories playing it, but it does suck that the mode’s issues have never been resolved

[azure oriole]

Yeah 😭

[knotty silo]

Hello, I have eternal on steam and I'm wondering, does steam save my progress, in game achievements, skins... etc if I login in another pc?

[flint flame]

Nope

Skins are saved locally (somewhere Idk)

[urban sapphire]

is it on xbox

[tame mango]

nope

[knotty silo]

:( ok, thx!

[azure oriole]

Nah but I think it actually is getting console ports soon

[tame mango]

only on switch and pc

new blood might port it though yeah

[urban sapphire]

isnt wolfenstein similar too

[flint flame]

No, I uninstalled

[spice patio]

Y'all know how to get the hotrod skin?

[flint flame]

The hotrod set is purchasable I believe on the store page

[urban sapphire]

i wish we got to keep the crucible in the dlc i know he broke it when he was fighting icon of sin but i thought it was so cool

[ember void]

i thought it was really lame LOL

design-wise, yes, i suppose it was cool.

[urban sapphire]

yeah

but big red sword=badass so i want it

[patent stream]

Looked cool, usage was horrible

[urban sapphire]

yeah

[severe ermine]

anyone know the combat shotgun skin that is white and blue?

[azure oriole]

pretty sure that’s a modded skin

[urban sapphire]

i kinda forgot about the combat shotgun after i got the super shotgun only used it for sticky bomb

[severe ermine]

brawler?

[azure oriole]

Sticky swaps are nice

Doesn’t change the fact that you can purchase it now

[ember void]

so true flip flop so true

[azure oriole]

Steam

Fr

Thought they made it purchasable like Doomicorn

[patent stream]

At this point its a mess on what’s purchasable or not

[azure oriole]

True lol

[harsh dove]

mullet slayer in my opinion. just seeing demons getting bopped by a chunker of a human seems funny lol

[flint flame]

You should buy the capability to make your own decisions

Weak roast but pop off

[harsh dove]

[urban sapphire]

how do you get thr skin where hes on fire

[flint flame]

There’s three of those, gotta be specific

Is it the default slayer on fire one?

[urban sapphire]

uh

[flint flame]

The grayed out slayer with fire on top?

The black and gold skin with golden fire?

[urban sapphire]

no theres one where his whole bodys on fire if i remember and its his classic suit

[flint flame]

Okay that’s demonic

Classic suit?

[urban sapphire]

how do i get it

[harsh dove]

classic suit on fire?

[urban sapphire]

no i mean the one he wears in eternal

[harsh dove]

oh default armor

[flint flame]

Okay yeah demonic, only comes when you buy the deluxe edition

You can’t upgrade to deluxe edition and get the skin, so unless you bought the deluxe edition first, you’re out of luck

[urban sapphire]

im playing it on gamepass so i think i just wont buy the game

[edgy vapor]

does deleting my campaign save slot remove or do something to my milestones?

same question for my horde save slot

[urban sapphire]

what do these yellow fists do i keep seeing them in the dlc but can never pick them up

[flint flame]

On whatever platform you’re on, deleting the save will not affect the global achievements (PlayStation achievements for example)

[flint flame]

Blood punch pick ups

They drop from spirits

[urban sapphire]

oh

[opaque hedge]

Yo is that Saul

[severe ermine]

also is there a new horde season with new rewards?

or is it just battlemode

[sacred dirge]

How do you define new ?

[azure oriole]

Hello :)

[tame ginkgo]

Holy shit Quakecon 2020 skin is sick as hell

[azure oriole]

No new rewards

just re-runs

[azure forum]

If they are to just going to cycle rewards they should do it in less days imo

[warped sage]

It’s sad that no new content will be created for Eternal it seems…

And maybe they won’t add in new Master Levels, despite the statement on when you finish the game that “new Master Levels will be added regularly”.

[tame ginkgo]

Should I get mobile turret or energy shield?

[azure forum]

:PeepoSus:

?

[tame ginkgo]

Can you buy every praetor token upgrade in eternal?

[burnt moss]

Did anyone else think you had to break ALL the walls in the tower in Nekravol 2? I did.

[primal relic]

on my first playthrough yes

[azure oriole]

I did on my first run

[primal relic]

then on repeat playthroughs I just break one and circle the entire arena even though I don't have to

[burnt moss]

I did it on my first like 4 playthroughs

You say that like aiming is possible

[timid plank]

just beat taras nabad, gonna do the last mission tomorrow

also unlocked the unmaykr and saw that it uses the same ammo as the BFG, should I just stick to the BFG or is the unmaykr good too?

[dim solar]

lol didnt happen to me but I always make sure to circle the entire thing and leave nothhing alive

[timid plank]

also, going into it I'm 2 points short on maxing out the praetor suit upgrades, and also have 1 extra sentinel battery even though ive done literally everything in the fortress

[azure forum]

Double charge dblade does the same

[dim solar]

taras nabad isn't the mission before the final one, you still need to go through another 4 levels

you'll find plenty of tokens in those

[timid plank]

oh when you google "doom eternal missions list", it shows nekravol as the last but i guess that's cause when google lists stuff, they only show a certain amount of things in the list

or Bing rather, not Google

[timid plank]

am i supposed to have an extra sentinel battery left though? it's bothering my ADHD haha

[dim solar]

not sure, I never used all of them tbh, did you get the tokens in the lower part of the fortress?

[timid plank]

yeah, I got everything (checked with a youtube video)

i guess they left some extra in case you missed some

[dim solar]

probably, they sure did that for the tokens

something very appreciated

[azure forum]

Like 4-6 at the end. Something around that

[burnt moss]

That makes sense to me because you get batteries from completing level challenges, and they didn’t want to require you to complete all those

[timid plank]

i went back to missions to complete all of those lol

[azure forum]

If I remember correctly, if ypu get everything on every level, by Nekravol 1 you complete the praetor token Perks. The batteries I believe by Taras nabad

[severe ermine]

no mods?

[timid plank]

i got all the batteries after i finished taras nabad

and i'll get the praetor tokens once i get two more in nekravol 1

[severe ermine]

p sure spectre counterparts are the same as the non spectre counterpart its just that they are invisible

[azure forum]

Right, I think up to that point you should have batteries to grab all the relevant stuff from the ship - probably even before

[timid plank]

and ive done literally everything so far including challenges

[azure forum]

Nope, puts them in GK state

[severe ermine]

can confirm

just get the gk though

[azure forum]

Or sticky or even a frag if you can get value

[timid plank]

I feel like dblade takes too long to charge for me, is there a technique for it?

[azure forum]

I almost never GK unless I need BPs or hammer charges

[timid plank]

i don't but i was using it with all the cheats earlier which unlocks the mastery i think

[azure forum]

Mastery allows you to charge up to 3 levels. 1 & 2 deal less damage but charge faster

[timid plank]

oh i was trying to get to the 3rd charge, i guess that's why

[severe ermine]

wait if you gk an enemy and another enemy is in gk state, will the gk timer for the enemy in a gk state keep going while you are gking the other enemy?

[azure forum]

If ypu have the mastery, you don't have to wait anymore.

When you charge it, you will see the indicator divided in 3

In fact, 1 charge uses 16 plasma cells and auto kills Prowlers and carcasses which is even better than a regular ballista shot which uses 25 cells

[timid plank]

so if i charge it to the second line it puts whiplashes in gk state? good to know

cause whiplashes are one of my least favorite demons in the game lol

[azure forum]

Use lock on burst on them. Auto kills them

[tame ginkgo]

Should I upgrade quick lock (50% faster rocket launcher lock on) or rapid chains (20% faster destroyer blade)?

[azure forum]

Lock on

[burnt moss]

Quick lock

[tame ginkgo]

Ok sick, thanks ^w^

[azure forum]

Should have been probably your first upgrade in game (quick advice)

[tame ginkgo]

Yeah I feel with it, I'd use my rocket launcher way more often

[burnt moss]

Besides flaming meathook

[azure forum]

Right, but you get lock on first so I think 6 points on faster lock on is the best first upgrade. Ypu should still have enough points to full master SSG once you get up to that point

[burnt moss]

Are you assuming optional encounters are completed as well?

[tame ginkgo]

Now my launcher has fast reset and quick lock, hell yeah

[azure forum]

Hmmm let's see
5 points from hell on earth
5 points from Exultia without encounters (which are easy so you can make it 7)
And I think you have 2 when you get lock on?

So 12 without encounters, 6 on faster lock on. Then, you get another after the pit and there's an encounter there as well which is easy. So that would make it 8 without the exulia encounters and slayer gate

You should have 9 by the time you get out of cultists base and SSG fully upgraded working on mastery

[sacred dirge]

FA>SSG

[tame ginkgo]

Also are these good runes? (I'm on the super gore nest mission)

1. enemies killed by equipment/ under influence of equipment decrease recharge time
2. longer stagger state
3. launch into glory kill from farther away

Or should I get speed boost?

[burnt moss]

Remove 2 or 3 and get air control

ASAP

[tame ginkgo]

Already got air control, I'll take off farther away then

[burnt moss]

Also I prefer speed boost over 2 and 3

[tame ginkgo]

FA?

[sacred dirge]

Fart attack

[burnt moss]

Meathook helps compensate for the farther away gks

[lapis saddle]

I think I’ve figured out why I’m not a fan of boss fights: my favorite part of Doom combat is crowd control, managing large groups of demons. Enemies that can only be hit a specific way and bullet sponges are 2 kinds of enemy that mess with crowd control stuff a lot

[sacred dirge]

Doom shines with the mini boss design with "boss" enemies just being normal demons later game

[lapis saddle]

Yup

[tame ginkgo]

Now should I upgrade my rapid chains or energy shield?

[unkempt crow]

I'd say energy shield because it's busted if you remember to take advantage of it

[lapis saddle]

For the most part any upgrade is fine, especially on a first playthrough

[unkempt crow]

I guess it doesn't matter too much though yeah
you have the super important stuff I think and after this it's kinda just preference

[lapis saddle]

I’d recommend picking whatever sounds like a better fit for how you like to play but not worrying about it

The game ensures you will get the important stuff unless you go out of your way to avoid it

[dim solar]

The hell is a rapid chain

[lapis saddle]

I’m guessing the chaingun mobile turret

[dim solar]

oh wait, they actually explained what it was in the message above

silly me

i'd say go for quicker lock-on

[timid plank]

What’s the difference between ultra violence and nightmare, just how much it takes to kill enemies and how quick they kill you?

[dim solar]

no idea about classic doom but modern doom difficulty levels are pretty simplistic

enemies just do more damage and that's it

I think

[timid plank]

Oh cool

[lapis saddle]

HP doesn’t change between difficulty settings

[brittle quest]

If nightmare's damage modifer is 1, UV difficulty is 0.5 and health remains constant at all difficulties. They become more aggressive and faster, along with their attacks having lower cooldown.

[lapis saddle]

Just damage and speed/aggression

[timid plank]

I don’t wanna mess with it for this playthrough but for next playthrough I’m gonna switch to nightmare

The question is do I switch before or after doing ancient gods

[lapis saddle]

In Classic Doom the main variable is enemy count (except in Nightmare which gives enemies speed buffs and respawning)
After

The Ancient Gods is much harder than the base game

[timid plank]

Got it

[brittle quest]

From past experience, both TAGs are harder and people who played them on NM first faced a difficulty spike, to the point of where they found UV TAG to be equivalent to NM Base campaign.

[lapis saddle]

TAG throws high tier demons at you more often and introduces some of the nastiest demon types in the game

[fading oracle]

in wich difficulty should I start

[lapis saddle]

Try Hurt Me Plenty. If it feels too hard lower and if it feels too easy raise it. You can change difficulty whenever

[tame ginkgo]

Is there any way I can buy all the purchasable cosmetic packs at once? Because I'd prefer not to spend like $60+ exclusively on cosmetics

[fading oracle]

I just wanted to know bc I started at ultraviolence and doesn't seem hard at all

seems more like the normal mode

[lapis saddle]

If UV doesn’t feel hard enough then you shouldn’t have a problem on Nightmare

[fading oracle]

alr thx

[severe ermine]

i hate the armored baron or blood maykr the most

[tame ginkgo]

I'm playing on PS4 if that helps

[lapis saddle]

No but most cosmetics can be unlocked by playing (what can be unlocked at any time is on rotation)

[timid plank]

Uv doesn’t feel that hard for me either but I’m fine with it cause it feels good culling demons like a sickle through a field

The hot dog stuff for the mancubus is hilarious lmao

I wish one would show up shooting ketchup and mustard in that outfit out of nowhere in the campaign lmao

[lapis saddle]

Yeah I’d love demon cosmetics in campaign too

Especially since most players (myself included) don’t really care about the multiplayer at all

[timid plank]

Yeah I played one game of battle mode, didn’t like it at all

Maybe if I played as a demon I’d like it though

[tame ginkgo]

Honestly I adore the QuakeCon 2020 skin, I just love the white and red with black highlights

[lapis saddle]

At this point though I just want a level editor so we can have infinite Doom levels and see what insanity the community comes up with.

[timid plank]

10 marauders, doom hunters and tyrants each in a small arena

[tame ginkgo]

Same, a snapmap 2.0 with better creation tools would be sick

[lapis saddle]

Yeah basically. Even a more limited version would be awesome

[primal relic]

release the source code!

[lapis saddle]

Source code release wouldn’t really help console players like me.

[tame ginkgo]

Anyone here I can add in my doom eternal friends list? Even if we don't play together a bunch, I mainly want it for the boosters

@lapis saddle can I add you?

[primal relic]

steel to the average human hand. Marshmallows to the average titan

[lapis saddle]

But by all means if a level editor isn’t feasible then releasing the source code would be the next best thing

Honestly I’d rather you didn’t.

[primal relic]

I'd think releasing source code is the best way to go about it. Level editors not only seem to take a lot of time but are also very limited in what you can do in the first place from my experience

[tame ginkgo]

Which person is that a response to?

[lapis saddle]

The main benefit of level editors is console compatibility. Modding is great if you play on PC but otherwise doesn’t help you

[primal relic]

I'd love to see as teams of people work on new doom eternal levels from those new resources

[lapis saddle]

I’d rather you didn’t add me to your account

[tame ginkgo]

Alrighty

[primal relic]

actually that would be cool. Some playground gamemode where you choose the location including MP and slayer gate maps, enemy spawns, obstacles, etc. would be awesome to mess with

I don't think it would let you bind one keybind to two different options

[lapis saddle]

Even a Master Level Maykr that let you move game objects but didn’t affect events or level geometry would be cool and better than nothing

[tame ginkgo]

I do think a high quality level creator would be really cool, it would be an opportunity to play some cool custom levels, and could give people who are interested in game design an outlet

[lapis saddle]

Especially seeing how I expect the main thing people want to play with is unique encounters

[vast kettle]

THE HOLT boss has to the best worst designed thing in this game

[lapis saddle]

Like an “oops! All Turrets” arena or a room (or even a whole level) covered in damaging floor to force the player to keep moving at all times

[vast kettle]

It's not fun or hard it's just time consuming and fucking annoying

[tame ginkgo]

Especially for people who have done most things the game has to offer. Like look at Tmodloader for Terraria, it's a way for people to more easily experience custom content via mods, custom worlds, etc. and prolong the lifespan of a game, by giving the tools to those passionate, a doom eternal equivalent would be amazing

[lapis saddle]

Yup. Also Doom 1-2 have had tons of excellent mod campaigns in their own right, 2 especially

Even the iconic Doom 2 expansion pack Final Doom started life as a fanmade campaign mod but was bought out.

Plutonia Experiment in particular does Doom 2 better than Doom 2

[tame ginkgo]

So good that they added a bunch of the best ones to the console ports of the first 2 games, like BTSX is amazing, imagine if we got a level creator and within a few years we got level packs as good as BTSX!!

[lapis saddle]

Yup

[tame ginkgo]

God I need to play through more of BTSX, I love how difficult yet fair it is

Like even if they throw like 20-30 enemies at me I still feel like with enough trial n execution, and just getting better, I can handle the situations

[lapis saddle]

The official port isn’t compatible with Boom (basically a modified version of the Doom 1-2 engine) so it can’t have Going Down or Sunlust, but those are fantastic (and fiendishly difficult) in their own right

[vast kettle]

Ancient Gods 1 is so short

Is 2 any longer?

[lapis saddle]

The later parts of Sunlust in particular make 20-30 enemies in a fight seem quaint by comparison.

TAG 2 is about the same length

I recommend watching Decino’s God Machine playthrough (God Machine is Sunlust’s final level) if you want to see absurd Doom fights that make the official stuff seem laughable

[dim solar]

that sounds interesting, lets take a look

[random vault]

if i want something faster and more chaotic ill play ultrakill

[brittle quest]

🤢

[dim solar]

imagine playing ps1 looking ass games in 2022

[random vault]

yeah its gross but i havent legit played the game so its still interesting to me

[lapis saddle]

I don’t mind the look for Ultrakill but the gameplay is very boring imo

[dim solar]

ngl the only thing preventing me from playing ultrakill is those graphics

[lapis saddle]

I played the demo. Lots of precise shooting stuff but the tactical side feels extremely basic. No ammo management, the weapons don’t really have specific roles, enemies mostly act very samey, etc

[dim solar]

having played so many amazing looking games like GoW4, Nioh or DE, I just can't stand the looks of games like ultrakill anymore lmao

[lapis saddle]

I really like Dusk. HROT is amazing. Ultrakill just felt like it had no tactical meat.

[main tangle]

Same thing happened to me after going from demon’s souls back to Bloodborne

Hit my eyes like a freight train

[lapis saddle]

Dusk and Hrot also have very simple graphics but they use their extremely strong aesthetic designs to make the simple graphics act as a strength rather than a weakness. Dusk especially

Hell my favorite FPS is Viscerafest, a game that is intentionally designed to look like it was made for the Build Engine despite being a very modern game

Simple graphics can look very good if used smartly

[vast kettle]

I paid 60 Aussie bucks for 2 dlcs that'll take me less then 5 hours to beat

Bloody oath man

[lapis saddle]

They are way more fun to replay than the base game though

[vast kettle]

Is there anything extra post TAG2?

[lapis saddle]

Horde Mode and the Master Levels

[dim solar]

lmao, you're right, I remember bloodborne looking a lot better than it actually did too, when I played elden ring and saw some bloodborne gameplay again I thought: man, this shit looks wack

[vast kettle]

I had horde mode before I even bought TAG1 and 2

[lapis saddle]

Horde Mode comes with the base game and all the Master Levels do too except the World Spear ML, which is part of TAG 2. The Master Levels are basically ridiculous remixes of the campaign levels

[vast kettle]

What are master levels?

[dim solar]

the best part of the game imo

[dim solar]

what does HROT stand for?

[lapis saddle]

Hrot is a Czech word for something like a railroad spike (IIRC)
It’s a game set in the Czech capital during some kind of zombie outbreak

[vast kettle]

I want something simple post-game.
Something to kick my ass.
I want a single stage, where there is no winning, just endless waves of demons to come and kick my ass back to Ireland.

[dim solar]

Oh, I see
that's cool

[lapis saddle]

No endless mode, but the Master Levels are pretty brutal

[vast kettle]

I saw this video about this mod that would have that

[lapis saddle]

Hrot is also made by Czech dev and plays like a really eccentric spiritual successor to Quake 1

I know nothing about mods, but I expect there’s a mod that has an endless mode

[vast kettle]

Dude I love Quake 1

[lapis saddle]

One of Hrot’s high tier enemies is a horse in a gas mask. The game makes no attempt to explain what the hell is going on

[vast kettle]

I never liked to download mods because a lot of them use textures that look terrible or have their elements in the menus that look off

Or were Stardew Valley SMAPI.
The worst mod client ever.

I would do better drunk and half asleep

[lapis saddle]

The zombie outbreak is my best guess because it’s hard to tell what’s going on. Hrot is still in early access so we only have 2 of the 3 episodes so far

The Kaiser Campaign is a great mod from what I’ve heard

The UI looks good and it’s basically a really hard reimagining of the base game with a weird sense of humor

[vast kettle]

What is the difference between an empowered demon

I don't see a difference they die in the same amount of shots

[lapis saddle]

They hit harder and move faster

They’re demons that recently killed another online player and get the aforementioned buffs

[vast kettle]

Like, another actual person playing DOOM Eternal right now?

[lapis saddle]

Right.

[vast kettle]

That's actually really cool.

[azure oriole]

they drop resources on death

you get health, armor and ammo iirc

that said I turned them off day 1 and haven't turned it back on ever

I've heard the drops aren't really worth the extra risk especially if you're playing ultra nightmare

[azure oriole]

yeah. For instance in hell on earth when you reach the final room (where you push the button to end level) there's a fight in that room now.
It starts, however, with a marauder falling from the ceiling to its death
Like it's about to jump you but dies.
I laughed out loud first time

[lapis saddle]

I think empowered demons are fun for the bit of unpredictability they give due to being effectively random since you don’t know who is dying to what

[azure oriole]

yeah I get the idea behind them

will prolly turn the thing back on

kaiser campaign has superheavies from the start but up to cultist base they have severely reduced health due to your limited arsenal

I haven't played past early exultia though, been waiting for full release because you can't really play any vanilla content with a custom gameplay mod installed

[lapis saddle]

I think it would have been neat if the game had a mechanic where one spawned demon in each arena wave was randomized within the pool of demons encountered so far in the campaign (weighted to favor small demons of course). That way arena fights would be a bit different every time you played them

[slow sigil]

I would rather have non-linear level design and consistant arenas

Maybe arenas would slightly chance depending on which "route" you took

[azure oriole]

Super Gore Nest would be exactly like that if it didn't have the progression blockers forcing you through a certain order to get the keys

I'm a little sad it does. Also it's the only level designed like that which is a bummer

Given it was featured in the very first gameplay demos I guess it was also one of if not the first level created and perhaps ID was trying to go for nonlinear levels at first

[lapis saddle]

The big thing I like about randomness like that is how it means memorization won’t keep you from getting surprises in a playthrough, which nonlinearity can’t do

[slow sigil]

when i first played sgn i thought it was gonna be non-linear with it's keys..

[slow sigil]

What about taking another route then you took first, maybe even take on an arena you didnt before, those would be new

It'll be good for speedrunners too, and honestly if i'm replaying a level i do expect to replay that level

[azure oriole]

yep it was a bit of a bummer to realize you can only take one route through it
Like imagine going for the red key first, so you get the chaingun and shield mod.
Then you could go for the yellow key and have the chaingun+shield in the buff totem area

[lapis saddle]

That helps for a second playthrough. It’s worth pointing out that the thing bothering me here is how memorization can let you optimize the fun out of a game if it’s too predictable in how it responds to things (this is related to the concept of solvability). Randomness can put players in situations they can’t possibly have seen coming so they have a new problem to solve now rather than just relying on a plan they made before starting.

This is why roguelikes are so popular: even when you’ve played a good roguelike thousands of times and learned how everything works, the game will still regularly throw you curveballs and you need to figure out a solution on the spot

[azure oriole]

I'm really looking forward to whichever game ID makes next as if they evolve the concepts of Eternal further (like having breakable demons actually have gameplay impact) and go for nonlinear level design, that game could be really really good

Not that Eternal isn't really good but you can always improve

[slow sigil]

Definitely, taking weakpoints and demon destructibility, would make for a very unique shooter

[lapis saddle]

I’m pretty sure the next Doom will be radically different from Eternal. There’s no way they’d just build on top of Eternal or whatever.

[slow sigil]

You can be radically different and still build on top

[azure oriole]

It can be different from setting and pacing but take concepts from Eternal and improve them

[slow sigil]

Doom 2016 is quite different from the OG but they still build from it, same as '16-eternal

[azure oriole]

Indeed breakable demons / weakpoints / faltering tied to limb breaking would work even better in a slower paced shooter

[strange gale]

deternal is "solvable" but it takes easily 1000+ hours to get to anywhere near optimal play

chess is also solvable but you don't see carlsen playing top engine moves every move

[lapis saddle]

I’m sure some things will carry over, but don’t expect it to feel at all like Eternal

[strange gale]

do agree with the point though

[azure oriole]

yeah the skill ceiling is really high. You can always do something a little better or find better ways to deal with encounters (to an extent)

And Eternal has clearly been designed with that skill ceiling in mind, you are supposed to replay it and learn stuff

ofc you can also play through once and drop it but that's just a fragment of the experience that way

[lapis saddle]

I’d like to see the next Doom not make the player slower but instead make movement more of a commitment.

[strange gale]

you've also got the option to do stupid challenge runs to remove the "oh full kit just solves everything automatically" problem

inertia as it is in deternal is a little wack, it's negated by ac and not really usable for anything cool when you don't have ac equipped

[azure oriole]

I'd honestly be okay with more of an old school approach to movement as long as you can't avoid everything by just circle-strafing

[strange gale]

committal air movement where you have the option to do difficult inputs to redirect inertia

[lapis saddle]

Like imagine if you had a really fast run speed like in Classic Doom but you couldn’t stop easily so you had to plan your movement a second or two in advance

Right

[azure oriole]

Quake has that kinda, movement is momentum based

[strange gale]

guard flying

[azure oriole]

like if you run to a downward incline, you keep sliding for a while before stopping

[lapis saddle]

Also I kinda hope there’s less emphasis on aerial maneuvers and more emphasis on good ground movement.

[azure oriole]

It does indeed make movement more of a thing to master and bunnyhopping especially isn't as straightforward

misstime the jump or do it in a wrong place and it kills your speed

[strange gale]

aerial movement in deternal is shallow, sure there's an emphasis but there's very little to it

[slow sigil]

If movement got harder imagone if you mellee got higher damage the faster you went

[lapis saddle]

My main thinking is that moving really fast but you can’t stop easily (not that stopping quickly requires advanced tech; you just can’t do it) so you need to start slowing down before you want to stop or stop by crashing into a wall and accept the consequences of being at the wall

[slow sigil]

Would also make a cool harder move where you brish next to an enemy and mellee, meaning your speed wont get fucked by hitting the enemy

[dense ledge]

is doom dlc not on gamepass?

[lapis saddle]

I’m not talking about advanced tech at all to be clear; I find tricky control wizardry to be annoying. I want more strategic depth. Hence more momentum. It would mean you’d need to figure out where you’re going a bit further in advance

[slow sigil]

Nah i was just thinking of 1 fun move and after i thought about it i thought about a "deeper" tech you could do with it

[azure oriole]

yeah impact based damage would be neat

[lapis saddle]

In general my main thought process is how the next game could give you hard decisions in new ways. Not being able to change your trajectory whenever you want inherently creates difficult decisions about where to go and routing because bad routes will punish you more

I haven’t gotten the new Quakecon skin

[jaunty vapor]

This right here 👍

Tbh something halfway between air controlless and air control movement I think. I actually don't entirely mind non-ac movement but I think for a general audience, something slightly less restrictive is the sweet spot

[lapis saddle]

Also maybe it’s my masochist streak but I’d kinda like Doom 2 chaingunner style hitscanners to come back to force players to think about sightlines a bit more

[jaunty vapor]

I could see that. Would help prevent A/D air strafing from being so good lol

[azure oriole]

no, hitscanners need to be left to the 90s

[jaunty vapor]

Maybe with a wind up so you have the time to get INTO cover

[azure oriole]

Make projectile enemies track / trail their attacks rather

so if you keep moving in one direction you get hit

[jaunty vapor]

This too. If anyone's played Metal: Hellsinger, there's an enemy who has this projectile that even with VERY fast movent tech, they can snipe you if you don't redirect your movement

[slow sigil]

Maybe make the attacks just VERY fast instead of hitscan, but not so fast you can't dodge it anyways

[lapis saddle]

Note that I think there should be like 1-2 hitscanners rather than several so they’re a special thing instead of something you’re constantly dealing with

[slow sigil]

It's on my wishlist, definitely gonna get it next sale i think

[jaunty vapor]

At this point I kinda have to get it to try and maintain a top score for full game. I've already "broken" their scoring like 4 times in the demo LOL

[azure oriole]

even so. Having enemy deal damage based on line of sight alone is really out of place in anything but a cover shooter
It was so in old games too. Hitscanners were mainly a thing due to lack of resources, they were easier to update as there was no projectile to calculate and update

[lapis saddle]

I guess you could do the very fast projectiles thing as a way to have hitscan style sightline control but have it fall off with distance more and moving fast would at least help

[slow sigil]

Also everytime i look at comments of the aoundtrack they are mad stimping for the female vocall singer which is kinda understandable she is hot

[slow sigil]

Lmfao, well maybe i'm gonna get it onxe it fully releases just to beat ya

[brittle quest]

I'd like something that takes inspiration from Titanfall's movement (besides wallrunning), that doesn't completely imobilise you midair but doesn't allow for fast and fluid turns (not without the loss of momentum/help of some tech). It's really interesting as a DE player to move towards much more complicated movement in titanfall 2, the game and it's quirks have made it so much more than the devs intended.

[jaunty vapor]

Lurch in DE movement would be so weird but so cool

Titanfall 2 is the best speed game in the past 10 years so something that combined it with some of DEs movement tech would be kinda fucking cool if done right

Sadly I don't think the devs wanna lean towards thaf route, which is a shame cause I don't know how much depth they can put into a game without focusing on the movement.

I'll gladly play and enjoy whatever their next game is don't get me wrong. I'm just .. skeptical of the direction they will most likely go

[lapis saddle]

I think “hitscan bad” is kind of a silly claim. The problem in old Doom was that they overused it. Having enemies whose entire sightline is risky to be in creates an enemy that requires consideration of cover (believe it or not, limited cover usage fits in Doom) and makes them high priority targets without needing to be really big or healing enemies or whatever. Just only use them where their usage adds to the encounter rather than for artificial difficulty hike

[brittle quest]

I think Hugo stated that the next game would be slower but more "powerful" feeling? Like a racecar (DE) to a monster truck (Next game), which is unfortunately disappointing.

[slow sigil]

It dependa on how they exactly mean that tbf

[lapis saddle]

That sounds great imo. It won’t be slow by any means (it is meant to be a Doom game) but probably a bit more methodical than Eternal

[azure oriole]

to each their own. For me hitscanning is artificial difficulty in any scenario. Any enemy that deals unavoidable damage is.
I recently played Perilous Warp which uses hitscan enemies and having to resort to peeking around corners and taking quick shots completely kills the pace.
There isn't much skill involved in peeking around corners.

Yes, if you are making a more milsim shooter then it makes more sense but in a movement / old school style shooter it is just as frustrating as ever.

[lapis saddle]

Part of why I like Classic Doom so much is that it is simple and isn’t demanding in terms of dexterity but you have to constantly be thinking about the next step. You don’t switch weapons while shooting at a demon but while you’re lining up the shot. You need to be careful and plan ahead even as you blaze across the room at 60 mph.

Well placed hitscanners basically mean you need to either immediately kill them or move between cover while getting closer and focusing on more readily available targets

Hitscan is avoidable btw; it’s just that you have to do the avoiding before they open fire rather than after

[azure oriole]

That's the thing, having to use cover is against the game's flow. Have cover as an option in combat sure but don't force it.
You can create player accountability without hitscanning, Eternal is a testament to that.

[lapis saddle]

Old Doom demons straight up have a thing that upon seeing you where they can’t attack right away so you have a chance to either shoot them first or break line of sight

It forces you to quickly make a decision and punishes you swiftly for choosing poorly

[azure oriole]

I see that more as a necessary concession from hitscanning rather than good design in itself.

Yes telegraphing is good not saying it isn't

[lapis saddle]

Again I think most enemies should use projectiles. I also think that having some enemies who punish you for running out in the open too much is a good idea to occasionally use. Note that such a game would probably need arenas to be more segmented and less open overall. This wouldn’t work well in Eternal arenas

I’d also like to point out that the Eternal shotgunners are hitscanners already; they just have such short range that it only matters in close quarters

I still think Plutonia Experiment has some of the best arenas in any FPS, and lots of them use chaingunners to keep you from hanging around certain areas

[slow sigil]

Tbf shotgunners/marauder are in a range where making it projectiles is just weird, it already should hit the player instantly cause of range

[lapis saddle]

True

But my point stands that it’s about why and how hitscan is being used rather than it being blanket good or bad

In that case, it’s to keep you from hanging around close to those enemies

[azure oriole]

I know I'm probably biased against hitscanning enemies but just comes from having seen shooters evolve from hitscanning to projectiles
The artificial difficulty in many old shooters was largely due to hitscanning enemies you couldn't avoid without knowing in advance they are there.
And even then it indeed boiled down to either know where they are and kill them quick or hide.

It was an understandable necessity back then, there are better ways of handling enemy design now.

to each their own, again, but I have seen enough hitscanners to last me a lifetime or two