the-dark-ages

[harsh egret]

did u see the caco one they did for tda for QC this year

[hard thistle]

He just compares the Codex files and goes by the one that sounds cooler.

[harsh egret]

so sick

[mystic barn]

Are you keyboard and mouse or controller?

[obsidian shard]

It's at id Software now btw

[harsh egret]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/491020118780805140/1441913368758976664/image.png?ex=692385f8&is=69223478&hm=1ea52c918fb8a06072e265c4eb5b3ec40f45f4558edb2351559fe8b540303b9a&

[harsh egret]

wait rly thats cool

[slender night]

I've been thinking about temporarily changing my pfp to the TDA caco toy because I got a really nice image of it, should I do it?

[obsidian shard]

Bet, But what image first?

[slender night]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1180586669037068340/1441913683746885683/pfp_5.png?ex=69238643&is=692234c3&hm=f5b46dd277a83f607ff200d915ac4e8f3966b2dbc57f41573874ccbca2d2e047&

[elder raven]

if it was for sale thennn

[frail bloom]

Last thing you see before your UN run ends

[obsidian shard]

Peak

[harsh egret]

imagine if prime1 made one

cinema

[obsidian shard]

CHILL, I can't spend that much

[harsh egret]

lmao

[elder raven]

i dont buy figures as much as i did before but hot take: i dont want to buy figures over the price of 100 dollars

[harsh egret]

thats not a very hot take

[obsidian shard]

McFarlane Toys take it or leave it

[elder raven]

lukewarm maybe

[obsidian shard]

Good smile Is the shit tho, super excited To see it

[elder raven]

i will take it

[harsh egret]

if the prime1 TDA slayer one is under 1k i would buy it but i doubt it will be

[elder raven]

now goodsmile is an exception because they make some great things

i wanna buy that slayer they have

[silent surge]

mouse n keyboard

100% game speed no slow mo

it turns into “hunt the fodder”

[spark elm]

My 7” doom slayer statue was $43

[elder raven]

what brand

[spark elm]

Mcfarlane.

[harsh egret]

mcfarlane is too "toy soldiers" quality for my liking

[obsidian shard]

Ahh the fig, The atlan is dog ass

But cool as it is

[elder raven]

articulation is wack on those

[obsidian shard]

What Articulation 💀

[elder raven]

https://tenor.com/view/doom-doom-slayer-doomguy-doom-the-dark-ages-true-gif-9488978076129629800

[obsidian shard]

Sateus my goat

[slender night]

Temporarily got a new face

[silent surge]

@mystic barn did you do it 100% game speed

[mystic barn]

Sure did! 0:14 seconds to spare lol

[magic spoke]

https://tenor.com/view/donkey-kong-donkey-kong-bananza-nintendo-switch-2-true-gif-119819844129911991

[silent surge]

bfc or no bfc?

maybe its just tougher on ry'uul or maybe i need to kill more fodder along the way which i kinda did

[mystic barn]

I fucked up my BFC on Round 4 and it did nothing. Managed to do R5 without. Did it on Ry'uul

[silent surge]

i also dont really paly with a lot of fodder on

hmm i wonder where i could improve on it

[green estuary]

the sadistic preset basically comes down to how lucky you get with your fodder spawns

[magic spoke]

nerf the whiplashes

too much hp

they have to have more hp than a mancubus there is no way

[silent surge]

also im not used to playing rounds with sooooo much fodder

i turned DOWN the fodder in my recent ripatorium release

[magic spoke]

also i got a clip of my shield stun not working on them until it killed me

nobody even likes the whiplashes. everyone agrees they were the worst demon in eternal.

[green estuary]

they're fine in TDA

their slithering just makes it so that melee and the shield don't target them, so play around that

[magic spoke]

wayyyyy too much hp

[green estuary]

no

if anything, it makes them a better target for ricochet

[magic spoke]

i have a clip of me hitting one 7 times with a fully charged chainshot lol

[silent surge]

ryuul feels so big so i gotta roam to the other end to kill off fodder

[magic spoke]

point blank too

[silent surge]

idk im doing something wrooooong and need to figure it out

[green estuary]

khalim is probably the smallest map, and the lack of elevation changes make your shield throw more effective when it comes to killing fodder

[silent surge]

thats what makes khalim my least favorite - no verticality
its nice fighting hunters on non-level ground, or jumping around and macing something

i started on ryuul dangit

[green estuary]

yeah, well the math don't add up lol
revs have 20k hp and whiplashes have 28k

HP-wise I think whiplashes are tankier than mancs, but they also stagger earlier, so shield bash + ssg still staggers tham

[magic spoke]

why do they have more hp than a heavy tho their defense is their speed and agility making them a damage sponge is just annoying at that point

[green estuary]

no, they don't have anywhere near the HP of a super heavy, you're really stretching it

the weakest super heavy is the baron, which has 60k hp, more than double a whiplash's

[magic spoke]

i corrected

[hard thistle]

Hey nerds. I heard we got more DLC statements from Hugo?

[green estuary]

well they have more HP than heavy demons because they are literally a heavy demon

[magic spoke]

but they shouldnt have more hp than a mancubus lol

[magic spoke]

shouldnt be. they dont look like it

hell imps look heavier than them

[green estuary]

raw HP is pretty irrelevant because their stagger threshold is fairly low
so the only way it actually matters is if you let them survive their daze period

for all intents and purposes, mancs are tankier

[silent surge]

@mystic barn do u have a video of your clear

[green estuary]

acolytes are as well, even ignoring their clone

cacos used to be, but their HP got nerfed

[magic spoke]

acolytes are glass cannons in my experience

[silent surge]

leaders can be a lil tanky

ive fought agaddon hunters more than anything though

[green estuary]

this is getting purely subjective at this point lmao
because acolytes are both much harder to get rid of than whiplashes because of their clone/shielding, and much tankier as well due to their raw HP (they have 38k hp compared to whiplashes' 28k)

[slender night]

I don't remember ever fighting Acolytes

[mystic barn]

I only have the results recorded I'm sorry

[spark elm]

My slayer figure arrived

I have redeemed my skin

[green estuary]

ery noice

[neon perch]

I almost always got to a minute left on the clock.

[green estuary]

on 100% game speed? or faster

[neon perch]

150%.

[green estuary]

makes more sense

because the clock doesn't tick faster when the game speed is increased

so at 150% game speed your timer is essentially 7 and a half minutes

[neon perch]

Huh interesting.

Yeah well I play fast so I don't wanna turn it down.

Stinky 100% speed.

[silent surge]

yea timer isn’t impacted

[silent surge]

fodder spawns are a huge deal

[neon perch]

I could try to do normal speed and see how I fare.

Too bad this server has no VC anymore.

[silent surge]

i need to just maybe go around the arena and blast fodder as i go

[magic spoke]

hey could u help me and tell me why i dont have all my upgrades in ripatorium?

u seem really knowledgable on the mode

[silent surge]

id heard of someone having 90 armor no mace

i’m not sure why that would be, id report it

any video?

[green estuary]

probably just use meta stuff lol
cooked rocket launcher, chainshot, impaler, accelerator, etc

dreadmace/daggers of course

[silent surge]

yea mostly use em. it’s skill issue. that’s it!

[green estuary]

it's just fodder RNG

[silent surge]

if i took the fodder out it would be different

[green estuary]

there's not really any way to guarantee you make 5 minutes

[magic spoke]

ill record one when i get the chance but essentially i have 150 armor, 180 health, some weapons are maxed while others are empty. one of the empty ones being ssg so its quite troublesome to deal with armored demons

[silent surge]

always helps for video to report stuff and if you know how to reproduce the issue

[magic spoke]

got if :👍

[silent surge]

but yea i’d heard of someone having that issue too

[warm ibex]

@hard thistle saw this reply on one of my videos. this feels a bit inaccurate but I'm not knowledgeable enough on argent energy, do you have anything to add? https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/892238793174818848/1441930218536439870/image.png?ex=692395a9&is=69224429&hm=d7eb9603b50ef92152bf43a244f581a8c028a3dee52a0d7c5a71f58345b6be2d

[hard thistle]

1. The Slayer himself cannot absorb Argent Energy. His suit absorbs Argent Energy, as stated in Doom 2016's Codex. Note also how demons do not drop health pickups in 2016 until you put on the Praetor Suit.
2. Wraith Energy is specifically the energy emitted by Wraiths. The Slayer was not touched by Wraith Energy here, he was touched by the soul of the Wraith itself, and Wraiths are evidently more powerful than almost anything in the series.

Wraiths aren't "made" of Wraith Energy. They emit it.

[elder raven]

as someone who is made of wraith energy, i can verify this

[hard thistle]

Keep in mind Wraiths were literally able to create life itself just by screaming real loud. They are immensely powerful creatures. The soul of a Wraith lashing the Slayer makes sense as something that would immobilize him. And the Witch also does this with her own energy when she attacks him.

[warm ibex]

Thank you very much! I'll share this with them

[frail bloom]

I have been playing presets all day

[green estuary]

https://tenor.com/view/speed-run2-gif-19781006

sweaty gamer

[frail bloom]

Yu wanna play mine katsu

I got "Hell hates you" and "scourge of belias"

[green estuary]

won't be able to play much of anything for the next week or so as I'm at my parents' house for thanksgiving

[magic spoke]

i think hugo should to establish whether or not davoth was at full power during the events of tag because its honestly worded weirdly through out the games lore and cutscenes

[green estuary]

but I will once I get back to it

[midnight cedar]

I know this is kind of unrelated, but is it a coincidence that the Slayer getting slashed by the Wraith seems to have the exact same effect as a Titan being stabbed by the Crucible?

[frail bloom]

Understood

[frail bloom]

He ain't

He needs a mech suit

He's washed

[magic spoke]

needs is a very strong exaggeration

[frail bloom]

Not really

[magic spoke]

hes going up against himself essentially he needs and edge he can have

[hard thistle]

If Hugo says he was at full power he's wrong, I'm sorry. Everything on-screen points to him lacking his power and thus needing the mech.

[magic spoke]

wdym by "need"

he needed a mech to stand a chance against the slayer?

[hard thistle]

Like the actual on-screen events show us he gives up as soon as the mech stops working. He never gets out and continues to fight.

[magic spoke]

wasnt tag notoriously rushed

[hard thistle]

Yes. Davoth send to be functionally a human in TAG2. The mech is what is providing his attacks in the box fight.

[hard thistle]

This is still what's on screen either way - doesn't make it any less canon.

[magic spoke]

whats on screen always contradicts lore in any game. biggest example i can think of is gta v

los santos is shown and behaves as an island but is canonically connected to main land

[frail bloom]

That doesn't refute the point

Why are you talking abt gta

[magic spoke]

the point that whats shown on game can contradict the lore? yes it does

[uneven dragon]

i wish i had that power id create so much life from doom arguments

[frail bloom]

And it doesn't happen here

[magic spoke]

according to who

[frail bloom]

According to the lore

[magic spoke]

the lore snd cutscenes act as if davoth returned to full power

[frail bloom]

No they haven't

[hard thistle]

They do not.

[frail bloom]

What are you talking abt

[hard thistle]

The lore and cutscenes never actually state that Davoth had returned to his full power. What is said is he intends to "unmake" the world, which we already see the plans of beginning in TAG1 with the demons gaining control of the Holt.

[magic spoke]

davoth was weakened by the father restricting him of his physical form, he receives his physicsl form in the game. it makes sense to assume he has his full power considering he has the very thing the father took from him

this is exactly why the father couldnt intervene in tag because he had no physical form

he even says this in a cutscene

[hard thistle]

He does not gain everything back. The Codex states the Father extracted a shard of Davoth's Life Sphere after this, and then this shard powered the Divinity Machine until it made Doomguy the Slayer.

The Luminarium brought back Davoth's (incomplete) Life Sphere. The powers remain inside the Slayer, which is why he faints when Davoth dies.

[neon perch]

Just beat Sadistic on 100% speed on controller but had to use the BFC at the end to clutch the Komodo.

[magic spoke]

how big of a shard are we talking because doomslayer was at a major advantage

[neon perch]

Man fuck 100% speed things take forever to do. The game is just way too slow to do anything.

KB+M would probably be faster but still.

[hard thistle]

We can presume the shard encapsulated Davoth's powers as a whole.

[magic spoke]

if that were true wouldnt that make doomslayer unkillable right out of the divinity machine?

because he does die afterwards

[hard thistle]

Why would that make him unkillable?

[magic spoke]

because he has the full powers of davoth if im reading ur statements correctly

[hard thistle]

This presumes Davoth was unkillable, which does not seem to be the case. The Father kicked his ass and Samur begged him to kill him after.

[magic spoke]

isnt it stated in doom lore that davoth has immortality but doesnt know how to grant it to his people which is why he did the things he did

[hard thistle]

The Codex IIRC makes specific reference to Davoth's lifeless body tumbling down the mountain after Davoth struck him down and tore the Life Sphere from his chest.

[frail bloom]

Doesn't mean he can't be killed

[hard thistle]

Immortality as in an infinite lifespan, yes. Not as in literally can't die.

[frail bloom]

There's different forms of immortality

He can live forever, but his ppl die of old age

[hard thistle]

The Slayer also has this immortality, as stated by the Khan.

[magic spoke]

that isnt really a death tho because hes still alive just not in his body

[hard thistle]

Up to interpretation, I suppose.

[magic spoke]

thats why i think hugo should clarify because i think theres evidence supporting both. the biggest one being the fact of why not from a writing standpoint

[frail bloom]

Well we had visual info

In tag two

Where the guy needed some 5 meter mech

[magic spoke]

davoth is written to be the true antagonist of the doom franchise as a whole why have u fight him when hes not at his fullest capabilities. doesnt make sense when u consider how much the writers love to state how strong the slayer is

[magic spoke]

mechs can be godly watch gurren lagann

[frail bloom]

Bc he's lost history

He's just washed garbage

He's a past relic

[magic spoke]

well yeah hes dead

[frail bloom]

Not the slayers arch nemesis

The guy is "beating a dead horse" but the horse comes back alive but it's decrepid and jank

And you beat it to death again

[hard thistle]

Davoth is an ancient relic. I would argue there are other antagonists who are more important to the Slayer as a character. Davoth canonically has his fingers in the story as a whole but ultimately he was made to be the final villain of a DLC. He isn't even the canonically strongest enemy in Eternal itself, much less the series.

IMO Davoth's fight is less meant to be "the big bad ultimate fight of Doom" and more the Slayer sweeping up the trash once and for all so he can finally rest.

[obsidian shard]

This is why Ahzrak is peak

[magic spoke]

i think bother interpretations are cool, whether davoth being at full power or not

him being at full power is cool to me because it shows the result of the doomslayers evolution in hell

[hard thistle]

Personally I think Davoth being at full power kind of breaks the story and makes the cutscenes basically entirely unreliable, because none of them work under that idea.

[magic spoke]

i dont see any instances of it breaking the story

in my eyes at least

him "needing" a mech is like saying doomslayer "needs" guns. its an advantage and given the stakes, it makes sense for davoth to try and create a better armor than the slayers

[elder raven]

imo, i dont think davoth was at full power either, but what was with him changing the terrain? was the earth they fought on in the present? or was it in the past because it didnt look like reclaimed earth. though, some parts that were invaded might have gotten it worse than others

[frail bloom]

That makes sense and all, but he literally does nothing to the slayer. He gets his ass handed to him instantly and gives up when his mech doesn't work. I can understand that he needs gear

[hard thistle]

I mean, yes. The Slayer does need guns.

The story has multiple plot points where they emphasize his need to collect a gun for his journey.

[frail bloom]

At least ahzrak did smt

[hard thistle]

I think it's clear if the Slayer didn't use guns he would have died before 2016.

[frail bloom]

Like davoth clearly felt off when we saw him in the cutscenes

[magic spoke]

i mean he has the physical strength. hes able to wield the infinitely dense dreadmace

[frail bloom]

Nope that's not literal

[magic spoke]

what

[frail bloom]

It's sentinel fluff

[magic spoke]

lol

[hard thistle]

Physical strength isn't everything. Doesn't mean much if a demon mows you down with fireballs before you can trudge over to it.

[frail bloom]

It's just hyping it up more then it needs to be

[magic spoke]

ur not a writer tho so

[hard thistle]

I would also argue the Dreadmace is not literally infinitely dense, but that the Sentinels believe it is because it operates on a level of physics beyond their understanding.

[frail bloom]

I don't think the guy can hold smt infinitely dense but have a tower fall on him and he gets put out of commission

He could hold the tower then

Or when he gets blasted by the witch

[hard thistle]

If the Dreadmace were of infinite density it would be a black hole.

[magic spoke]

wasnt there several factors like the temple being magically enforced

[magic spoke]

in our universe

[frail bloom]

So what he can break the magic then bc he's literally infinitely strong

infinite

[hard thistle]

Argent D'Nur is in the Earthly Realms, and he uses the Dreadmace there.

[magic spoke]

magic can bypass physical strength in fiction typically if not all the time

[frail bloom]

Ye but infinite strength?

If he's infinitely strong why does he need guns

[magic spoke]

im saying ur trying to apply real world physics to a video game which breaks the point of worldbuilding

[frail bloom]

Just punch everything and it dies

[magic spoke]

its not supposed to follow our laws

[split saddle]

im stronger

[magic spoke]

wouldnt be a fun game

[frail bloom]

So you believe he can punch everything to death and win

[elder raven]

the first game took place in 2020 where humanity had already colonized mars wdym

[fervent maple]

To be fair, the codex isn't infallible. TAG shows this pretty blatantly.

[magic spoke]

the writers said that he took on a titan with his bare hands

[elder raven]

i dont think they said that

[frail bloom]

But he never did

[hard thistle]

Yeah TDA's Codex is from an infallible POV.

[frail bloom]

Nowehere does the codex state it

Nowhere is it shown in any game

[split saddle]

source trust me bro

[elder raven]

i think its just fans hyping it up

[frail bloom]

Hugo says alot of bull

[magic spoke]

ill grab it

[fervent maple]

It's both entirely possible and highly likely that tons of the lore is hyperbolic and fallible, given that much of it is written from the perspective of people in-universe.

[hard thistle]

Hugo says all kinds of shit. That doesn't make it true. He has said outright wrong things before, and even in TDA we fight many Titans and the game outright says you need an Atlan to fight them.

[frail bloom]

Doesn't matter if they did, bc Hugo says alot of bull

Storywise, the guy speaks facs gameplaywise

[hard thistle]

Think of it like this: if Hugo told you Olivia Pierce was actually a manatee in a human costume would you believe him just because the creator said so?

[split saddle]

errrhmm well achtually doom guy does use his fists to fight a titan but inside of an atlan tho! 🤓

[magic spoke]

i have the video

[frail bloom]

Can't wait for my fav comedy show to air

Hugo makes a mistake season 3

[elder raven]

plausible

[magic spoke]

ur taking it to 1000 lol

thats not comparable to a creator saying what happens off screen

[frail bloom]

Ye but guess what, the codeces never say this

You can look in the codeces, and see it either never state this, or refute his point

[magic spoke]

ok so are the codex to be trusted or not lol make up ur mind

[frail bloom]

It is but he's literally mistaken by saying it comes from some imaginary codex that doesn't exist

[fervent maple]

Things can both be made to sound cool and to be taken with a grain of salt. That, and the newer doom games have had frequent retcons from one entry to the next.

[frail bloom]

It comes from nowhere but his mind

[magic spoke]

ok so then u believe the infinitely dense part

becsuse thats from the codex lol

[hard thistle]

I would argue it absolutely is. Hugo said this years ago as a joke. It isn't reliable and his word isn't law. He has said verifiably incorrect things before.

[frail bloom]

This guy

[magic spoke]

source he said it as a joke?

[fervent maple]

"I love pancakes"
"So you hate waffles, then"

[harsh egret]

random but could the witch still technically be alive then btw

[split saddle]

yeah i do

[magic spoke]

"codex entries are to be trusted"
"okay what about the infinitely dense dreadmace"
"no except that one"

[split saddle]

how did u know

[fervent maple]

I'm Hugo

[frail bloom]

There's multiple moments where a character fluffs an event or an item to make it more mystifying then it actually is. The only ppl who state the codex is infinitely dense are the sentinels, a lot of ancient cultures fluff things up when they don't understand things

[neon perch]

@silent surge No BFC 100% speed complete.

[hard thistle]

I distinctly remember him saying this at a con and he is saying it with an irreverent and "haha isn't that badass?" tone. He is just saying shit that sounds cool.

What's in the game is what's canon. No more and no less.

[neon perch]

Had to whip out KB+M but it's doable. Still holy fuck I can't get over how slow this game is on 100% speed. It's actually painful.

[frail bloom]

Like you don't take everything 100% literal and you got to read inbetween the lines

[magic spoke]

"whats in the game" is BS tho and brings me back to my point about gta v's map

[frail bloom]

[magic spoke]

the games cut corners for performance and immersion

[mystic barn]

What’s in the game is there for a reason

[magic spoke]

not really cutting corners

[split saddle]

is dark ages playable on a controller, i destroyed my finger and now i ordered a controller in first time since ever

[elder raven]

very playable

[frail bloom]

Yes

[hard thistle]

GTA V is GTA V. Doom is Doom. These are entirely separate franchises and I don't care to bring up entirely unrelated games as evidence to support being able to cherrypick what is and isn't relevant in the game based on what is convenient for me.

[elder raven]

dare i say the most playable doom game on the controller

[split saddle]

thanks eli vance

[magic spoke]

ok so i cant bring up other games to talk about how game mechanics contradict lore all the time in games?

[hard thistle]

You can. It just won't convince me you're right.

[elder raven]

https://youtu.be/qL2f7sjEW7U?si=_R4UQV55vwSqHJed

[frail bloom]

Hato have you tried "hell hates you"

[hard thistle]

I would be more keen to see actual evidence from the game itself.
Plus Davoth's mech, as a prior example, isn't a gameplay mechanic, it is explicitly there in cutscenes. That is a part of his character.

[fervent maple]

On a personal level, I think more so that things are meant to be taken on a case-by-case basis and to take only what is concretely stated. It's almost entirely because Hugo's statements often come with a lot of hyperbole and contradiction.

I don't blame the guy, he's clearly excited and helped build an awesome and expansive world, but he doesn't tend to have consistent explanations.

[harsh egret]

not yet, been gaming some arc raiders

[split saddle]

i got the mod where the gravity gun makes that sound each time u use the pull function

[harsh egret]

and looking in this chat while im playing xd

[elder raven]

ive been wanting to play hl2 so im getting that mod asap

i hope next stream our presets are featured

[hard thistle]

Exactly this. Hugo is a cool guy. Love him. But he is a normal fallible human; he isn't gonna have the entire universe in his brain to cite and make sure he doesn't contradict when he thinks of something badass to say at a con or during a stream.

[harsh egret]

should be since they arent doing one next week so by next stream they should add some

last time they said there would be 6 slots for community made presets but in game theres only 3 for that, so im curious

[hard thistle]

Overall I'm a Doom lore fan, not a Hugo lore fan. I don't give a shit about Hugo's interpretation of the lore any more than I care about John Stranger's view on the lore. I care about the lore itself.

[elder raven]

im gonna get one of those small notebooks that writers use and jot down ideas i have

[fervent maple]

I might be misremembering, but I recall a stream wherein somebody asked him if he was permanently under the effects of powerups and he halfheartedly answered yes. I don't think he remembered what an Ul-Thranx demon even is. Who can blame him?

[harsh egret]

m0no do u believe the witch is still alive then even with what hugo said about her

[fervent maple]

He didn't remember the Witch technically isn't dead, despite this being stated in the lore.

[silent surge]

how much time left on the clock?

[split saddle]

wait what witch

[frail bloom]

He didn't really say she was dead persay he just said implied that she's irrelavant for now

[fervent maple]

Hugo's statements about the lore are more akin to someone showing you their ideas for a draft more so than real lore Q&A, so they should always be taken with a grain of salt.

[frail bloom]

Like she's dead as character

Bc he basically said he forgot abt her so she's dead as a character

[silent surge]

though that was just a vessel
which they didn’t consider

[harsh egret]

he said the witch is dead to him

[elder raven]

i believe shes alive idk

[frail bloom]

Ye y'know cuz she's irrelevant

But she ain't actually dead

[split saddle]

didn't she literally get nuked

[frail bloom]

She has a form in the cosmic realm

[hard thistle]

Mixed thoughts here. On one hand the Codex explicitly states the Witch is only a vessel, an expression of Ulsamir's essence. On the other hand by the time we kill her, she has become a being permanently locked to Hell and possibly stripped of her "chaotic divinity" like the Old One was.
My opinion is either she died because Hell fucked over her eldritch soul stuff, or she is alive but irrelevant to the ongoing story.
Either way those opinions can be reached by the story itself. I don't need Hugo's words to come to them.

[frail bloom]

Her true form

[split saddle]

guh

[harsh egret]

so either way she wont be relevant in the future then?

[hard thistle]

Definitely not.

[harsh egret]

hmm

[gilded lake]

hey sort of related but m0no have you ever just seen a ridiculously bad character take that's kept you up at night

[elder raven]

maybe it could work like the administrator in the tf2 comic who constantly needs australium to keep herself alive.

maybe if the witch is alive she needs hell essence to keep herself alive which ultimately fucks her over but idk i like the idea

just a thought if the witch ever comes back in some way

[silent surge]

is doomslayer the betrayer???
is he the wretch???
can we ship doomguy and thira???

[obsidian shard]

Now we're speaking

[silent surge]

real ideas not made up

i’m too old to be using the word “ship” outside of a boat

[split saddle]

the witch vessel is the nerd Intern in tag

[fervent maple]

I wanna answer this too: the idea that Doomguy uses guns to "give demons a chance"

Like... huh? "Give them a chance"???

[split saddle]

the true form i mean

[silent surge]

https://tenor.com/view/dumb-and-dumber-lloyd-theres-a-chance-jim-carrey-gif-11098164

[obsidian shard]

Well you see DOOM lore is what i say it is!

[gilded lake]

as in like. a take made in absolute bad faith dedicated to frame a character in the Worst possible light/out of character

[obsidian shard]

Mancubi SOLO all of Fiction but just dont feel like it!

[neon perch]

Like 10 seconds.

[elder raven]

i do like the idea where he constantly works on his guns as a hobby

[fervent maple]

https://tenor.com/view/jack-nicholson-jack-nicholson-yes-yes-nod-head-nod-gif-17444176260167585294

[silent surge]

i’m getting to round 5 with a min left
some early rounds i can blaze through

[uneven dragon]

well in that instance yes

[hard thistle]

• "The Slayer doesn't care about humans, he just wants to kill demons!!!"
• "Doomguy is doing everything because they killed his rabbit!! It's just like John Wick bro!!!"
• Most powerscaling shit about the Slayer
• "Samuel Hayden is actually a good guy and just wants to help Earth!"

I care too much about this shit as you see.

[hard thistle]

He USES GUNS BECAUSE HE FUCKING NEEDS GUNS. The guns HELP HIM.

[obsidian shard]

"Erm Actually He empowers his weapons and doesnt actually need them" - pOWERSCAIlper123

[gilded lake]

do you mind if i dm you something to add one more line to that list

[hard thistle]

(I like to think Doomguy and Thira were a thing before he became the Slayer.)

[fervent maple]

In relation to this, it reminds me of how Fede Alvarez has talked about the Alien franchise post-Romulus. I love him and his films, but saying stuff like, "Ripley's escape pod was in the background of the ending" gives me the same feeling I used to get hearing about rumors as a kid. Like, Luigi is playable in SM64.

[obsidian shard]

WRONG

ALL YOUR LORE HAS BECOME INVALID

[hard thistle]

Yeah that's fine.

[elder raven]

mono can you verify that if the slayer used something like a basic pistol, then that same pistol would be supercharged or something? i read somewhere that might just be hyping him up that his guns are powerful because each kill makes him stronger

[silent surge]

then they broke up when slayer joined the sentinels so they wouldn’t be dating as coworkers

[gilded lake]

dms not working :(

[frosty roost]

wait did someone actually say that?? that's wild

[hard thistle]

Nothing in the games say this. Everything points to the pistol remaining a normal pistol.

[obsidian shard]

Also I'm like 25% Done reading Absolute DOOM, and its Truly Absolute DOOM so far

[hard thistle]

We have to be friends I think.

[hard thistle]

I made a post about this hang on.

BTW if anyone were curious I really think it would make sense if Thira and Doomguy were a thing after he became a Night Sentinel. Eternal specifically says Novik was who decided to make Doomguy a Night Sentinel and that it was a pretty unexpected move.
I think they were a thing for a while under this and I like to think this was one of a few different things that tied into what made Doomguy a happier and more adjusted person by this point. And then the Maykrs come along and the Seraphim tosses him in the Divinity Machine, then he's brainwashed by the Tether for a couple years straight, and now we get their relationship in TDA - Thira is one of the only Sentinels who vouches for him still, but the Slayer still barely regards her. There's a bit of something there, but it's based in a relationship that is no longer possible because the Maykrs have stolen the Slayer's humanity from him.

[elder raven]

thought so, thanks

[hard thistle]

Nah that's me saying that.

[fervent maple]

Is there any functional difference between Tyrants and Cyberdemons? I haven't read the new Absolute Doom revision yet, but I wondered about that since TDA renamed Tyrants back to Cyberdemons, plus Tyrants exist in Legacy of Rust.

[frosty roost]

ohhh I gotcha, my apologies (honestly I forget most things)

[magic spoke]

why does hugo martin say the exact opposite several times

like it seems everything he says is hyping doom guy

[elder raven]

another question for you mono; would you say that the lyrics of “the god that failed” by metallica fit davoth’s character? imo it lines up a lot with him and what hell does to characters in doom. this is more of a “parallel” but i’d like to see what you think

[obsidian shard]

Waiting for the Artbook to get more lore

[magic spoke]

it comes to a point where its obvious hes well aware of the powerscaling and is feeding into it

[frosty roost]

ello jay!

[obsidian shard]

Howdy Gums!< How ya doing?

[frosty roost]

im good, chilling and vibing

[obsidian shard]

Hell yeah, I'm just Lurking in chat and cleaning so i can get Christmas Decorations up in my room (All my Slayers are getting Christmas Hats)

[silent surge]

the picture in the fortress of doom though also

[frosty roost]

ooooh nice, sounds great honestly

[delicate grotto]

As far as I know, Cyberdemons are enhanced Balgaar demons. Tyrants are like a subspecies, or a less powerful version of Cyberdemons.

Hell experienced a massive decrease in power between Dark Ages and Eternal, which explains a lot of physical differences with demon designs.

[hard thistle]

Because he just wants to hype up Doomguy lol. Again I'm a fan of Doom lore, not Hugo lore. Hugo has said verifiably incorrect things before.

If he didn't need guns the games would say so.

It's almost like making the protagonist of Doom, the quintessential and ultimate FPS game series, not need guns is an inherently fucking stupid idea. That is like saying Mario doesn't actually need to jump, or Sonic doesn't actually run fast. That is stupid. It's no wonder it is just shit Hugo says randomly and not actually in the story.

[magic spoke]

ok well hes the creative director so im going to take his word because otherwise it would be like telling george lucas hes wrong about star wars or george r r martin is wrong about game if thrones

[fervent maple]

Thanks, I think I remember that from the older drafts. I'm just not sure if that's changed since TDA.

[hard thistle]

If they say stupid shit that isn't supported by the things they made, then I would say they are wrong as well, yes.

[magic spoke]

its bad writing sure

[obsidian shard]

Who cares if he doesn't need guns, His weapons are powerful and cool as it is

[delicate grotto]

Unfortunately TDA’s codex entries are bare bones when it comes to world building on the demonic hierarchy.

[magic spoke]

but its still their vision to tell lol

[hard thistle]

It objectively is not writing. Hugo saying random shit on stream is not writing. None of this is in the games.

[fervent maple]

That they are... bummer tbh

[magic spoke]

why does it even matter if its "in the games", if they are in the codex its considered "flowery language"

[silent surge]

out of the codex into the cutscenes

[delicate grotto]

I’m still disappointed with how bare the Komodo’s codex entry was. Literally no given origin or anything.

[obsidian shard]

True, but they still have cool stuff about each demon

[delicate grotto]

Yeah, fair enough.

[fervent maple]

Pet gorilla lizards

That's about it lol

[delicate grotto]

Yes lol

[hard thistle]

The Codex files are actually in the games and still represent a view of the universe, albeit a subjective one that is the POV of characters with limited information.

This is why I brought up the Olivia manatee thing. By your logic if he said that we should just accept it because it's "his vision" and it doesn't actually matter if it is in the game or not.

[green estuary]

big lizards with monke brain pretty much sums up their AI as well lol

[magic spoke]

olivia being a manatee is different than "power fantasy protag is stronk"

[hard thistle]

Let's completely ignore that the beginning of 2016 literally has the Slayer panic and scramble for a pistol to fight off a couple zombies, yeah? As it turns out the games themselves don't matter. The only thing that matters is what Hugo says. Actually we should just experience the story by just watching streams and telling us random bullshit.

[magic spoke]

panic or rage?

[frail bloom]

It's still as bad, bc it's implying the slayer doesn't care abt getting rid of the demon invasion as fast as possibpe, and instead uses guns cuz haha its fun

[magic spoke]

also he literally crushed the skull of one of them with only 1 arm free

[frail bloom]

Or like the time hugo said the slayer went to hell cuz he killed demons

[hard thistle]

Definitely panic considering he lunges for the pistol so hard he lands on the ground. And it is in the opposite direction of the zombies, which if you trust Hugo he should've been able to just punch to death like swatting flies.

[magic spoke]

guns can be useful he just doesnt need them

[frail bloom]

It retroactively makes the story worse

[frail bloom]

That makes NO SENSE

He's just dooming humanity apparently

[magic spoke]

hes not omnipresent he cant be 2 places at once so it allows him to apply damage from anywhere

[frail bloom]

Bc he cares more abt his pew pew

[obsidian shard]

Not even close, I would say pet Gorilla belongs more to the Pinky
In Lore the Komodo's are basically Demonic Mercenary's (They are apart of Ahzrak's Elite Vanguard), "weakness whether in a foe or an ally is intolerable, met with merciless and immediate death"

[frail bloom]

So he needs them, he can't punch his way out of everything

[magic spoke]

he can but that would lead to the destruction of humanity because it would take longer

[frail bloom]

There's instances were he doesn't sure but overall he has guns cuz he needs them

He needs them to quickly kill the demons

[meager vortex]

https://x.com/i/status/1992224044339380460

OANASA (@OANASA_X_)

😱 Terrifying Footage from 1987 Surfaces! Mystery Revealed 👀

X · Nov 22, 2025, 1:30 PM

[magic spoke]

he needs guns for his goal of protecting humanity. he doesnt need guns for protecting himself. having the doomslayer "need" something to protect himself takes away the whole powerfantasy

[frail bloom]

In general dude

[meager vortex]

vagary confirmed

[fervent maple]

Yeah, I'm just joking around. I know TDA has neat codexes, I just wish we'd gotten them more in the style of 2016, with multiple per-enemy and more specific info about them.

[frail bloom]

Oh nvm

[frail bloom]

Bc it builds stakes and tension

[obsidian shard]

Pinky's Eat their Riders is funny asf ngl

"Riders choose these savage beasts for a chance at fleeting glory in the underworld’s halls, but such glory comes with a price. Many Sentinels have witnessed the gruesome spectacle of Pinkies turning on their riders, devouring them in the blood-soaked chaos of battle."

[frail bloom]

He's an underdog

[hard thistle]

??? There are a million points in the stories where he needs things to help him survive. The Praetor Suit. The pistol. The Super Shotgun. Stopping the Foundry from shutting down. He literally dies in TDA. Getting his shield upgraded in TDA.

[magic spoke]

tda is before the eons he spent in hell so

[hard thistle]

It's after he obtains the powers of a Primeval.

[frosty roost]

I'm gonna say this and i'm only gonna say this once.

Slayer needs guns to help him kill the demons, end of.

[magic spoke]

ok but doom gets stronger over tome

[hard thistle]

Power fantasies are not supposed to make you OP and completely immune to everything. The entire point is for you to overcome adversity.

[magic spoke]

tda slayer is far from prime slayer

[magic spoke]

overcoming adversity is underdog

[hard thistle]

TDA depicts him killing demons just by landing on the ground near them.

[magic spoke]

complete opposite of power fantasy lol

[magic spoke]

ok?

[hard thistle]

Yes, Doom is both of these things lmao

[magic spoke]

maybe the original trilogy

i mean theres literally power ups that make you one shot every enemy with ur bare hands lol

if were using gameplay

[hard thistle]

Yes, they are power ups. Not permanent gameplay. The power ups explicitly are not related to the Slayer.

They are upgrading the Slayer's strength temporarily.

[frosty roost]

^^^

[magic spoke]

also another reason why gameplay isnt over lore is because why the fuck would there be several health packs and ammo for the slayer to collect

how does that make any sense

[frail bloom]

This is a case of not finding common ground and taking things too literally

[fervent maple]

I decided something a while ago: I cannot and should not entirely value my interpretation or desire above what is in front of me, nor should I allow my own vision to overshadow it. I've learned to value things for what they are and what they can presently be, not what they could have been. Something now being what I wanted has nothing to do with the quality of that thing. Otherwise, I'll get obsessed with the idea of something that doesn't actually exist.

[frail bloom]

Sure, not every story is perfect, sure, you gotta suspend some disbelief

[hard thistle]

Gameplay is not "over lore." Both of these things inform the universe of Doom in equal parts.

[obsidian shard]

I just like the merch...

[fervent maple]

It's some damn good merch!

[magic spoke]

ok but gameplay has limitations

written word doesnt

[hard thistle]

Sometimes the gameplay pulls some weird shit you should ignore and accept as a contrivance. Sometimes the lore contradicts itself in ways you need to ignore.

[frail bloom]

Or the betterment of the story, or interpret it in a way that makes sense, doom is vague with it's story mostly, I don't know it as this mechanical plot

Where everything is literal

[magic spoke]

ok but who are u to decide what is objective and subjective in the doom universe

are u a writer for doom?

[frail bloom]

Doesn't matter

[magic spoke]

lol

[frosty roost]

okay no reason for that at all bro

[fervent maple]

Michael De Santa has inhuman reflexes that make it look like he's slowed down time in gunfights
Franklin Clinton can do the same in a car
Trevor Philips can become nearly invulnerable mid-combat

This does not mean that they are superhuman. It's just cool gameplay stuff.

We could go on and on about author intent and interpretations, but I think we'd just be going in circles.

[magic spoke]

??? its not an insult its true. its not his property so he legit cant decide what is and isnt fact within the universe lol

[unkempt dragon]

[obsidian shard]

HE has Arrived

[frosty roost]

well good timing, hi LM lmaoo

[frail bloom]

The point is that if the author is ruining his story maybe you shouldn't take it as fact

[frosty roost]

yeah there's been a shit ton of arguing here and i had no clue what was going on

[frail bloom]

Like when he says the slayer goes to hell, bc he killed demons

[magic spoke]

uhhh its his story lmao

[unkempt dragon]

agreed, people need to calm down about the lore lol

[magic spoke]

thats like saying the prequels arent canon

[frail bloom]

It's not his, it's several people

[magic spoke]

its not even about lore its annoying to be told ur wrong, then providing evidence, then people saying u are wrong anyways

[obsidian shard]

Real, Basically Arguing over Interpterion of the Lore

[magic spoke]

who work for him

[elder raven]

i am the lore

[hard thistle]

Why does that mean I should take everything he says as objective fact even if it blatantly contradicts the story? Who cares if it is his story? If he dies someday Doom's story is still gonna be here and you will have to interpret it yourself.

[frosty roost]

I was legit confused

we ARE the lore

[hard thistle]

Why does this mean I'm under some magical obligation to listen to every random remark Hugo makes online?

[unkempt dragon]

seems like several people are doing that rn. cough

[magic spoke]

when it comes to considering what is canon yes

u can have ur own headcanon

and it can be better than the actual canon

[frosty roost]

@unkempt dragon okay going off topic but how're you dude? you good?

[magic spoke]

but it isnt going to overtake the authors word

[hard thistle]

You are operating under the idea everything Hugo says for fun is magically canon. That is not a universally agreed-upon definition of canon.

[fervent maple]

The game is cool, the lore is cool, there's a lot of stuff that does and doesn't make sense. Again, I think we'll just be going in circles if we argue about whether to listen to Hugo or not.

[unkempt dragon]

Good just eating dinner, got home from work. Hope you're having a good day Soulgums! ^_^

[hard thistle]

The author's word doesn't mean shit to me. Hugo's words mean as much to me as yours do, or any other fan's. They don't magically change the game itself.

[earnest mulch]

Hi, I'm new here. Is this the official DOOM discord? Like the Slayers Club one?

[hard thistle]

Yes

[elder raven]

yeah

[mystic barn]

No

[frail bloom]

I've seen several authors ruin their stories for fanservice

It's not a good feeling

[elder raven]

donate your blood to the nearest uac blood drive

[unkempt dragon]

Yes

[elder raven]

be generous, give your blood

[frosty roost]

I had a shower earlier and chilling right now being cozy

[elder raven]

all of your blood

[frosty roost]

it is, welcome in!

[earnest mulch]

Thanks! I've come to look for some great Ripatorium presets

[magic spoke]

death of the author is a real thing and a fair thing to believe in but at the end of the day its hugo martins story to tell. its his job. even if its stupid hes saying it for a reason, its why he has QnA streams.

[frosty roost]

#1440705736975061053 in here dude!

[unkempt dragon]

lmao this convo I stg

[hard thistle]

This ignores the dozens of other writers who contributed to this story. You are appealing to an authority and in the process arbitrarily ignoring the others who made the story - by this point you might as well not even play the game or watch the cutscenes because apparently what Hugo says is the only reliable thing to determine the story.

[frail bloom]

Ye I'm just gonna blindly believe whatever the author says bc he wrote it end of story. End of nuanced discussion, he said so.

The slayer is bad boi he went to hell cuz he killed dem demons!!!

Bad, very bad!!!

[magic spoke]

those people work for him and have their ideas processed by him lol

[elder raven]

very naughty doomguy

[magic spoke]

he gets the final say

[hard thistle]

"Fuck you for paying attention to cutscenes and reading Codex files lmao, if Hugo contradicts them then they don't matter and your attempt at actually engaging with the universe means nothing. Just accept what Hugo says, turn off your brain."

[frail bloom]

Naughty boi killing demons

Naughty naughty

[obsidian shard]

No reason why I'm saying this but
for Instance M0no and I share Different views of the lore,
Such as The Slayer Being able to be Resurrected or Can he "Not Die"?
Just because we believe one or the other doesn't mean either is right or wrong, just differing opinions and no reason to argue over it!

[mystic barn]

The id Software of old don’t work for Hugo Martin lol

[hard thistle]

"Uh, unless he changes his mind... Then the last thing he said doesn't matter and THIS thing he said DOES matter."

[frail bloom]

Nah you make sense jay but there's different interpretations and there's making the story worse

[magic spoke]

ok heres my impression of you
"the codex is fact! except that one! o-or that one! or that one too. and that one. and all of those. and all of the ones in the ancient god and..."

[fervent maple]

On an unrelated note, I've been writing my own game concept for a couple months now, and I've been wondering what the right way to get such a thing out there would be. I like how m0no went about it, but it's super daunting. I'm also not sure if anyone will even like it, but this is already off topic enough.

[frosty roost]

lmao what is this convo right now

[elder raven]

https://tenor.com/view/cool-it-doooown-matty-matheson-calm-it-down-calm-down-keep-it-down-gif-26329712

[unkempt dragon]

@magic spoke Okay enough. You're allowed to have opinions but I truly don't understand the point in roundabout arguing like you're representing Hugo in civil court. Calm yourself.

[frail bloom]

Civil court

[magic spoke]

so why is mono able to be the aggressor but im the one being reprimanded

[frosty roost]

https://tenor.com/view/everyone-breathe-lets-all-breathe-nwabudike-bergstein-baron-vaughn-grace-and-frankie-gif-17555665

[elder raven]

you can turn this into an entire trial in the latest ace attorney update

[frail bloom]

He's using "reprimanded"

[frosty roost]

naaaah this guy

[fervent maple]

I... I'm not sure who's being aggressive here?

[harsh egret]

its been fun having this chat on 2nd monitor while playing arc raiders icl

[uneven dragon]

samir hush 😭

[magic spoke]

this is completely aggressive you literally start off with "fuck you"

[unkempt dragon]

Because m0no is not being an aggressor, nor have I ever seen him be one in my time here.

[hard thistle]

The difference is I never implied this and I unilaterally accept every Codex file as fact. It is factual that the Sentinels believe the Dreadmace is infinitely dense, and it is factual the Maykrs wrote that the Father is the true God. This is fact and makes sense. But you can accept these characters are biased and have their own perspectives that differ from others. This is a very simple understanding of narrative.

[magic spoke]

read above

[frail bloom]

[frosty roost]

@uneven dragon hiyaaaaaa

[fervent maple]

I'm gonna go make dinner

[uneven dragon]

hii

[hard thistle]

My point is not an insult to you. My point is that this way of thinking IMO is an insult to people who care about Doom's story.

[harsh egret]

ok this guy's crazy lel

[elder raven]

🆘

[frosty roost]

this guy needs to go, for real

[uneven dragon]

nah

[frail bloom]

Nah

[hard thistle]

If it came off as an insult to you then I apologize. That was not my intent.

[obsidian shard]

Precisely

[frail bloom]

Just discussion

[unkempt dragon]

I did with my eyes that do work, thank you.

[frosty roost]

oh i gotcha

[mystic barn]

Nah bro, don’t crumble

[frosty roost]

don't apologise, you did nothing wrong

[magic spoke]

ok so why would developers put in codex entries that are blatantly false or exaggerated when the point of codex entries are to educate the player on the doom cosmology and lore lol

[frail bloom]

Does someone want to play my preset I'm feelin lonely

[harsh egret]

theres always smth sus about ppl with like not even a week old accounts

[hard thistle]

Oh I still believe I am right. I just don't intend to insult anyone in the process.

[frail bloom]

It's called "hell hates you"

[frosty roost]

sure i'll play it

[frail bloom]

Yippee

[mystic barn]

That’s my fuckin guy

[magic spoke]

its not that i took it as an insult its that it was objectively aggressive, i never swore in this argument so starting off a message like "fuck you for listening to the lore" even if it was for a point is still aggressive

[frail bloom]

I got another one that's even better after

[uneven dragon]

I feel like the people who aren’t m0no and chunk are turning this into a bigger deal than it is :P

[elder raven]

im just observing

[frail bloom]

Ooga booga

[frosty roost]

[elder raven]

try out my encounter 👀

[magic spoke]

i dont listen to them im talking about doom lore in a doom server if they have a problem with that they might need to get their brain checked

[mystic barn]

We have fun here

[frail bloom]

Which one is that

Dark lord one?

[elder raven]

the dark lord’s gauntlet

[frail bloom]

Ok I'll try it after this current one I'm doing

[hard thistle]

These are called "worldbuilding" and "plot twists." The point of the Codex is not just to give you objectively correct info, it is to set a tone for Doom's universe, put you in the shoes of its characters and factions, and give you an understanding of how its characters understand the universe.

Doom 2016's Codex entries for example are all explicitly from the UAC's perspective. The point is not that everything in the Codex is an objective view of Hell or whatever. It is also to show us how the UAC sees Hell and how they engage with this info.

[frail bloom]

First I gotta do some stuff

[frosty roost]

I'm just gonna play doom or dbd

[elder raven]

got it

[magic spoke]

yes that is true but until they are contradicted in a reasonable way (like, if any character other than doomslayer was able to wield the dreadmace, itd come under question)

[hard thistle]

I would like to say I don't mind this debate/argument/discussion. When I try to avoid any consternation it is out of respect for the server and mods, not because it would be horribleterrible or whatever. I just like talking about Doom.

[magic spoke]

but the issue is there is nothing that shows sentinels as being untrustworthy narrators

afaik, there is nothing that explicitly contradicts their words

[hard thistle]

But nothing really says their words are objectively true either. The point of the Cosmic Realm shit is to show you it drives you insane and the Sentinels barely understand any of it.

[magic spoke]

but they are written by the makers of the lore as an outlet. that is the purpose they serve from a game development standpoint. at that point anything in the codex and be said to be untrustworthy which would defeat the purpose of it

[hard thistle]

I really would not take anything in the Codex as a true-to-heart objective understanding of the Cosmic Realm, moreso a subjective idea of what is generally understood about them. A sentence saying the Dreadmace is infinitely dense can mean many things; that it is infinitely heavy and the Slayer can hold it because he is mega powerful is only one.

[magic spoke]

like why collect a bunch of pages that arent even true

[frail bloom]

It offers different perspectives of history

It's interesting

[magic spoke]

not really they are all from the same perspective

[obsidian shard]

We have to ask "THE Question"

[magic spoke]

not to mention they never give u any indication on which ones are true or not

[frail bloom]

You got the cosmic realm, sentinels, hell

Earth

[magic spoke]

all written from the perspective of the sentinel

[obsidian shard]

What's your opinion on 2016 getting framegen?

[frail bloom]

Nope, slayers testaments are written from hells perspective

[magic spoke]

i mean if people dont like it dont use it

its nice for the people who want it

[hard thistle]

(looks at TAG1) Hahah.... yeah ..... So true....

But seriously even all of TAG1's pages are still important because even after being told they're lying, they still offer nuggets of truth + they offer important context regarding how the Maykrs operate and how they engage with their own world and history.

[magic spoke]

tag1 is a fair one but wasnt that the point for the plot twist at the end

also btw i hope there isnt any hard feelings

[hard thistle]

There aren't. It's just a conversation on the internet. I am very passionate about Doom and I understand others are too. It's all good.

[green estuary]

https://tenor.com/view/cataaaaaaaa-gif-23904304

[magic spoke]

i think ur very knowledgable on the doom universe i just feel personally, that the authors word takes precedent over most because its the most unrestricted form of story telling. im a star wars fan and i apply the same logic to it

whidh i think is a fair comparison

[green estuary]

the author's word is also off the cuff in a twitch stream 95% of the time

[magic spoke]

but there is also the death of the author too which is a completely fair philosophy to have

[hard thistle]

I personally at the most see Hugo's statements, and those of other Doom devs, as suggestions or indications of direction AT THE MOST. Nothing more. I think if you unilaterally accept all of Hugo's words the story becomes really fucking stupid (i.e. Primevals)

Here is the thing. With Star Wars as an example, George Lucas had some awesome ideas but that is a dude whose story is at its best when he has people to hold him back or make him simmer down so things stay reasonable. I think Hugo is the same way.

[magic spoke]

rots is peak he cooked with that

[hard thistle]

The games are Hugo's vision after going through other writers who refine the story and try to make it make sense. The streams are just Hugo talking off the cuff without the refinement that comes with the actual development process.

[magic spoke]

but i get what ur saying

[magic spoke]

i think the hugo martin quotes that are most important are the ones that explain the gaps in existing lore

but honestly i totally see where your coming from. your saying that you dont see it as canon because the ideas (most likely) hasnt gone through with the writers team, so theres a possibility that even though hugo martin says one thing, its not a sure thing thats the direction the game will take

[hard thistle]

Yes, exactly.

[magic spoke]

personally, i think his words do hold some weight because it 100% shows the intention behind those outrageous codex statements

like hugo martin definitely wants the doomslayer to be this omnipotent god

[hard thistle]

The other part of it is time. When Hugo said the Slayer dunked on a Titan with his bare hands, IIRC that was before/shortly after Eternal. Eternal came out, showed us the Slayer killing the Icon with guns, then TDA came out and showed us the Slayer needing an Atlan or a turret to kill Titans.

Hugo can say whatever he wants at cons or streams but that doesn't translate to what is feasible when you are actually telling a story that needs to be, like, functional and interesting.

[mystic barn]

Don’t you know? Doomguy was bare ass naked beating that first Titan

[magic spoke]

tbf i think that was inbetween his time in hell and 2016 because u gotta remember theres that champion titan in 2016

also icon of sin is easily the strongest titan to the point where i dont think its comparable. his presence was distorting space time

[hard thistle]

That's the one I'm talking about. Realistically the Slayer likely used an Atlan or a magical artifact or whatever to kill the Great One.

[magic spoke]

i think it was the crucible but the crucible still requires significant raw strength, it cant just cut through anything on its own

[hard thistle]

Hugo wants the Slayer to be seen as a god or whatever, but the story also consistently notes the usage of weapons and the fact he is a human. Thematically the point is that the Slayer is revered as a god because of how much of a fucking badass he is - not because he's so powerful he can do whatever he wants. Like the whole "steel-barreled sword of justice" thing. That isn't just the Slayer being revered as a god, but the Super Shotgun revered as the holy weapon of a god of vengeance.

The Slayer isn't a literal god. But almost nothing in Doom is. It's a matter of perspective. We see him as one because of his power.

[magic spoke]

fair fair. i do think that doomslayer needs guns if he wants to efficiently kill demons to save humanity, but is capable of going bare hands if its to protect himself

[unkempt dragon]

damn just got back. Everyone else dipped out of this chat haha

[hard thistle]

Doom is a more grounded universe where you can, in fact, kill demons with guns, and angels can be bitch-smacked with a metal suit of armor. This is why I always hated the notion that Doomguy "empowers his guns" or whatever to justify him killing demons - Hugo IIRC implied that after a fan asked him, and it came off like he was just going with it. But that makes no fucking sense! The ARC fought off Hell and did a pretty respectable job of it for 14 years straight before Eternal.

[fervent maple]

Lmao I just got back too

[obsidian shard]

☝️🤓 Steel-Barreled Sword of Vengeance

[magic spoke]

i want a tower defense game from the perspective of the ARC

[hard thistle]

IMO it is antithetical to Doom's themes to suggest every single thing the Slayer does is something no human can do. It's not that everything he does is some kind of god working above humans. It's that he's a human who is just exceptionally badass and fucking awesome, and he has some super strength and all that to match it.

[magic spoke]

honestly "human" is meaningless to me

[hard thistle]

Anyone could be Doomguy with the right context. The Slayer's just the one to end up with Primeval powers. But I don't think they're the main reason he's survived this long, beyond the infinite lifespan.

[unkempt dragon]

We don't exist right now. Come back later lol

[magic spoke]

that could open a lot more story telling opportunities

[obsidian shard]

I think we need a lore channel or smth to discuss lore

[unkempt dragon]

I just suggested this to the team not even five minutes ago

It would be beneficial for everyone

[obsidian shard]

It definitely would!

[hard thistle]

IIRC it was a thing but some user long ago ruined it by posting smut or something? I dunno.

I hope you understand if we do get a lore channel it will be the only channel in this server I have notifications turned on for. And I might end up making up like 40% of the messages there. If anyone in this server doesn't like me they won't be able to escape my bullshit there.

[unkempt dragon]

Really? That sucks! I'll lobby to try again. Not shading you whatsoever by the way! I want you and others to have a space to discuss these things uninterrupted. Plus it would free up a lot of space for the rest of the members to continue their discussions in the channels without being filtered away by the lore comments

[hard thistle]

No, I get it. Doom's main thing is not lore. People should be able to discuss gameplay without having conversations flooded with bullshit about XYZ character's in-depth backstory people misunderstand or whatever.

[obsidian shard]

How does that tie into Lore????

[hard thistle]

TBF if you're an exceptionally in-depth lore nerd your discussion might end up being somewhat sexual.

[unkempt dragon]

And I do think it would be nice for those who have lore questions to have a specific place to go. To search and find answers to questions already asked. And for the rest of the members to have their chance at other conversations and questions to be seen.

[hard thistle]

Example: Vagary are probably sexually dimorphic, as Doom 3's are explicitly female and are shown to be pregnant with Mancubi. But how do Vagary reproduce, and if they give birth to Mancubi, what gives birth to Vagary?

[unkempt dragon]

Yeah let's not go there lol

[obsidian shard]

I regret Reading

[frail bloom]

Professor m0no droppin some lore bombs

[hard thistle]

Without getting too deep into it, I actually do really find this topic interesting, because some demons are confirmed to breed sexually while others seemingly just manifest within Hell. Pinkies are said to breed with each other in 2016 and pass down genetic mutations, since the Spectres in that game are a result of a mutated Pinky escaping to Hell and breeding. But other demons, like TDA Arachnotrons and Eternal's Pain Elementals, are said to just rise from the depths of Hell already-formed.

[unkempt dragon]

you got deep into it friend

[hard thistle]

It does kind of interest me to wonder what causes this distinction as to demons that seem to breed or share their qualities with Earthly animals VS demons that are so alien that things like sexual reproduction aren't a factor for them, and seemingly just... kind of... exist?

[unkempt dragon]

I just got home from work😭😭

My head hurts

[frosty roost]

same here

[obsidian shard]

Wdyd for work my man???

[hard thistle]

https://tenor.com/view/charlie-day-apology-apologize-words-gif-10095275

[unkempt dragon]

hair

[unkempt dragon]

lmao

Every day I get home I am stuck between if I wanna rot on the couch, or play one of the Doom games. I wanna game. However, my back hurts haha

[fervent maple]

Where would someone self-promote a written work here? Like, a fanfic, lore doc, original work, etc.? Sorry if that's an odd question.

[obsidian shard]

Every time you get here from work you sound like you've been slaving away for days like "I had Cyanide for Breakfast and then washed it down with concrete"

[fervent maple]

THIS. I'm not employed atm, but I have other responsibilities and I feel this 100%. I wanna do so many things but I'm so tired by the time I'm done with the day...

[violet zealot]

Wait, I just had a thought

[unkempt dragon]

Not an odd question. As long as you're not promoting with the intent of monetary gain I suppose General or Artwork

[violet zealot]

If Samuel Hayden was 𝚒𝚗 𝚍𝚝𝚍𝚐 What would he look like?

[unkempt dragon]

long annoying days. Self-employed

[fervent maple]

Thanks :> No monetary goals here.

[mystic barn]

That’s a conversation I’d be interested in having. Let’s save it for the DM’s

[hard thistle]

I have my guide pinned on #general, but it is more a resource so that counts. To my experience I've shared fanfic and I've found it's acceptable in any channel as long as it is relevant.

[silent surge]

doom 3’s what

[hard thistle]

I'm good with that.

[silent surge]

that escalated quickly

[hard thistle]

Yeah I can't find a good image but the OG Vagaries are totally pregnant.

They also have breasts but that part isn't interesting. You can literally see Mancubi fetuses in them.

[unkempt dragon]

yeah we're good on that

lol

[hard thistle]

I found a pic but I should probably spoiler that and I can't embed spoiler images so whatever.

[frail bloom]

@elder raven imma try your preset now!

[elder raven]

good luck my friend

[frail bloom]

The last one I was doing was making my hesd hurt so I'l do one less bull

[elder raven]

https://tenor.com/view/doom-eternal-gif-20781795

[warm ibex]

Artist Phillip Bailey posted renders of his work on the TDA Zombie Slayer, have you guys seen these? Wicked as hell https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/892238793174818848/1441971974552420512/image.png?ex=6923bc8d&is=69226b0d&hm=d2416e616ef808547dc334c97b082b8b89f6600896f85e05eac3a9c45391eaab

[elder raven]

badass

[elder raven]

why is he so cool every time

like in every design

[warm ibex]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/892238793174818848/1441971939475198125/image.png?ex=6923bc84&is=69226b04&hm=800167d90e6e58df1e0eadf1fa1a2dc4964c7deae7a3a1523f6f633bcc811688

There's more pics here. Vega bot won't let me send the link so you'll have to copy and remove the space artstation. com/artwork/Gvl8Gz

[elder raven]

will be looking at it soon

[frail bloom]

My head

[elder raven]

https://tenor.com/view/burning-office-spongebob-on-fire-gif-13729593

[obsidian shard]

Only other reason why i think he just Resurrects him self in hell is due to how he has all his weapons and shit with him

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1441456807036846152/1441974605467091115/phillip-bailey-zombie-slayer-0002-close-01.jpg?ex=6923bf00&is=69226d80&hm=6d16c9eb54f064e7d77a2eef366b275f05a352c088607a338fbf22a544b03480&

The chest hole

[magic spoke]

has anyone ever played at 500% damage taken 50% dealt at max speed

[warm ibex]

oh he definitely brings himself back, it's the whole "too angry to die" thing (mixed with the divinity machine, I'm sure)

[magic spoke]

i wonder if this will be the only canonical time doomguy has died or if he has died before/afterwards

wait

i forgot he died in the original lol

why did he go to hell when he died anyway? i dont remember if they explained that

[warm ibex]

not even close to confirmed or official canon, but I personally like to believe that he died during classic Doom. Even if that's technically not the case

since E2M1 is a UAC map and not Hell

[magic spoke]

i swore he did tho, one of the chapters ends with you getting overwhelmed with demons

[warm ibex]

that was a cliffhanger ending at the end of E1M8, the screen fades before he dies. the following level, E2M1, starts in the UAC

so he didn't actually die. I think it's a common misconception and one that I like more than the canon narrative

[obsidian shard]

Hell wanted to play with him after he died so they Resurrected him (Biggest mistake they done eveth made)

or what Horde said

Really your choice

[magic spoke]

it might not be according to a post i saw. they said that john romero made a post on his forum saying how the intent was for the player to die and wake up in hell. which still happens because he wakes up in deimos base which is above hell

i hope this doesnt sound argumentative btw, i just find it interesting because it implies doomguy did something to warrant going to hell

[magic spoke]

i honestly wanna believe that

[obsidian shard]

Yes, The Goat @frail bloom is or was doing a whole run on it

[magic spoke]

because doomguy is a good man

[frail bloom]

Yes

I'm on the last arena

I stopped bc I spent hrs on it

[magic spoke]

wicked man, mad skill

[frail bloom]

Thanks

[magic spoke]

np

[obsidian shard]

Its actual ragebait

[magic spoke]

ima be honest its so fun brcause u gotta think each arena out tactically

[frail bloom]

Who knows maybe I can do it now

[obsidian shard]

i thought 300% damage (my standard) was hard on that arena...

[frail bloom]

There's a point where it becomes a chore

[obsidian shard]

i do BFC in the middle to kill half the stuff

[frail bloom]

And when you realize that checkpoints don't save where you want them to

You start to realize that you're in it for the long run

[magic spoke]

im practicing in some arenas and ive been getting closer snd closer at completing the first arena in resurrection

[frail bloom]

You become your couch

[magic spoke]

i spawn right infront of those eyeball tanks

so whenever i respawn i get a huge chunk of health removed unless i parry asap

[frail bloom]

Have you spawned across the map too, from the arena you're supposed to fight in?

That also sucks, a lot

[magic spoke]

yeah definitely

that one level with the heart in the middle (not belly of the beast) comes to mind

considering how wide it is

[frail bloom]

It happened to me on siege and resurrection

I hate both those maps now

[magic spoke]

i loooove resurrections song

steel beyond the grave

[frail bloom]

I'm not the biggest fan

Let's just say

[warm ibex]

wait that's true, I forgot the Deimos base was above Hell

so Doomguy did die and go to Hell TWICE

[frail bloom]

Sure I guess

[warm ibex]

that's awesome

I want zombie classic doomguy

[warm ibex]

@hard thistle (sorry for the ping again) don't all souls in the Doom universe go to Hell regardless of how good/bad they were in life? Or is that something I've misinterpreted

[frail bloom]

I don't think so imo

[warm ibex]

either way Doomguy is a marine, so I'm sure he's killed people before. That's probably enough to damn his soul

[frail bloom]

I think if you're not killed by hell your soul simply goes away

[warm ibex]

honestly I don't really know how any of that works

[frail bloom]

Otherwise, there's kinda no point to what he's doing

You save millions but they all go to Hell

Whoops

You spend eons fighting for humanity but they all go to hell anyway

Iiirc, a person goes to hell if they're killed by hell or has a connection to it

Like the slayer with his shard of davoth

Classic doomguy died by demons, so he goes to hell

[magic spoke]

kratos maxing

[magic spoke]

i think ive heard something about souls of the innocent going to hell to fuel argent energy

i could be weong

[frail bloom]

Well they're still innocent they just got murdered by demons

[hard thistle]

I believe Hugo has maybe kinda sorta implied this but I don't think so. It presents a pretty damning (lol) plothole: why does Hell bother to invade if they receive a steady stream of souls just by doing nothing?

[frail bloom]

So they go to hell

[hard thistle]

Eternal's Codex spells out the answer: those killed by demons go to Hell and are turned into energy.

[magic spoke]

@frail bloom BTW are u replaying on an already completed file or are u doing a new save

for ur max damage run

[frail bloom]

New save

Torture.

[magic spoke]

when do u think the first difficulty spike is

[frail bloom]

The second you breathe

[magic spoke]

id imagine the mech and serrat sections being pretty easy

[warm ibex]

nice, I like that answer. gives Hell an actual reason to invade

[hard thistle]

The idea as the Codex says and the rest of Eternal implies is that there is no "default" afterlife and Hell's presence as an afterlife is an aberration (re: not normal). People manifest in Hell whenever demons kill them or, perhaps, they die under the effect of the Blood Ritual.

[frail bloom]

I'm serious btw

It's torture

[hard thistle]

IMO, the Slayer likely goes to Hell in TDA because the Divinity Machine has caused his soul to become inexorably linked to Hell.

[magic spoke]

ah yes because zombie soldiers are soldiers that have been killed by demons

so fhat explains it; since doomguy was killed by demons in the end of e1 thats why he ends up in hell

[hard thistle]

Well... I'm not actually sure about that one. IIRC 2016 says zombie soldiers are people who were Possessed by Hell energy.

I personally do not believe Doomguy is killed in Doom 1. I believe the level design implies he merely takes a teleporter to Hell. But that is up to interpretation.

[magic spoke]

i see

[violet zealot]

𝚆𝚑𝚊𝚝 𝚑𝚘𝚠 𝚌𝚘𝚖𝚎 𝚝𝚑𝚎𝚛𝚎 𝚠𝚊𝚜 𝚗𝚘 𝚖𝚊𝚔𝚢𝚛𝚜 𝚒𝚗 𝚍𝚘𝚘𝚖 𝟸𝟶𝟷𝟼 𝚒𝚏 𝚝𝚑𝚎𝚢 𝚠𝚎𝚛𝚎 𝚒𝚗 𝚝𝚎𝚊 𝚊𝚗𝚍 𝚍𝚘𝚘𝚖 𝚎𝚝𝚎𝚛𝚗𝚊𝚕???

[elder raven]

they werent a concept yet

i feel like thats an answer that can explain a lot in the doom franchise

any franchise for that matter

for prequels

[magic spoke]

arthur morgan is the best paradox character in that aspect

i.e a character introduced in a sequel that breaks the lore

[warm ibex]

I'm surprised you don't believe that

I think it gives more backing to Ahzrak's "we need something more permanent" line and also goes a long way in showing that Doomguy was always so enraged by injustice and the killing of innocents that he could power through being a Hellzombie even without enhancements

he didn't need the death of daisy/his family or the mass slaughter of his world to become that "angry" either, watching his fellow marines die is enough

[hard thistle]

Here's the thing: we know the UAC was holding Gateway experiments to teleport people between the moons of Phobos and Deimos; we know the Gateways ended up being a way for Hell to get through; they invaded Deimos first and absorbed the moon; then they got Phobos and Doomguy shows up.

E1M8 is called Phobos Anomaly and ends with us entering a portal. Then E2M1 is called Deimos Anomaly, and when you look behind you, you see an empty space that could look somewhat like a teleporter.

It is my opinion that you go through the Gateway they used as an experiment and it takes you to the Deimos Gateway, therefore you end up in Hell.

[warm ibex]

I think that's the bland route

it's safe, since it doesn't mess with lore or require any additional explaining, but it also doesn't do anything

essentially doomguy goes through a teleporter vs doomguy's hatred for injustice has always been enough for him to overcome turning into a standard zombie marine or unwilling upon death

that's the way I see it, anyways

[hard thistle]

I don't mind the latter idea, but my main issue is that it doesn't explain how he turns back to normal (which, in TDA, required a ritual) or why he would go to Deimos upon death and not the Harbor of Souls like in TDA.

[warm ibex]

and those are definitely things that need explaining, but I'm personally not bothered by it at all

shit just kinda happens sometimes. I'm okay with that, and more importantly okay with it not being explained. Especially classic doom stuff

[obsidian shard]

The Interpretation stuff can be annoying but I do enjoy the conversations it creates!

[split saddle]

We know the UAC was holding Gateway experiments to teleport bread

[hard thistle]

https://tenor.com/view/its-bread-cheryl-mason-silent-hill-gif-5779154621576365387

[hard thistle]

That's fair. Ultimately the classic Doom stuff is all up to interpretation and we have to accept it won't be elaborated on.

[warm ibex]

I'm under the beliefe that it shouldn't be elaborated on

[hard thistle]

I don't really want it to be. The original games are not part of the "Slayer Saga" and other than occasional references, cool callbacks, or relevant shit I don't want Hugo Martin to try "explaining" it all.

The OG Doomguy may be the Slayer but he is also fundamentally a different depiction of the character. The original games aren't the Slayer's backstory, but a prologue. The Slayer's backstory is the Sentinel lore. That's how I see it.

They are different halves of the Doom franchise.

(Doom 3 is, uh, the rim of the coin or whatever I guess.)

[warm ibex]

and I suppose the side entries are oxidization on the penny lol

[hard thistle]

Lmao yeah.

[warm ibex]

one thing that I always go back to is 2016's final version being super open ended when it comes to its potential connection to the classics, and the prior iterations not being connected to the classics at all

they made a game that may or may not have been a continuation of the the original trilogy, established a firm classic conection in Eternal, and have spent the time since trying to make everything work. I'm not bothered if it's not air tight 24/7

[frail bloom]

I like the theory that the high council is behind the original invasion of doomguys earth

Would like to see that realized

[hard thistle]

I do think Eternal making him Doomguy was the right move. The connection is awesome and I love how the series ties the franchise together into one story spanning millions of years and like three universes; I just don't need the connections to the originals to be so overt that we completely recontextualize them (beyond Hell being Jekkad and all that).

[warm ibex]

the dark lords who had wronged him, I suppose

[frail bloom]

That is, if we happen to see and fight them

[hard thistle]

This is actually referring to Doom 2's level designers.

[warm ibex]

LMAO

[hard thistle]

Sandy Petersen is the main antagonist of the Slayer's Testaments

[frail bloom]

No no Sandy is def goated

He made his house in doom!

Who can dislike that

And uh, nirvana

[hard thistle]

He's a cool guy but Downtown is basically a war crime.

[frail bloom]

💀

Have you seen nirvana

[warm ibex]

oh for sure, that was absolutely the right call. It amazes me that, despite the storytelling flaws of modern Doom, it's essentially a decade long streak of just barely making the right moves lol

I can't remember if it was ever stated how late into development the change was made, but the 2016 protag was originally not the Slayer

[hard thistle]

It was like a super soldier or some shit. Right?

[split saddle]

me

[warm ibex]

yeah

[hard thistle]

God 2016 could've been fucked up so bad. I remember a lot of this earlier shit sounding really dumb.

[warm ibex]

which I believe is why the Praetor suit looks like that

it wasn't originally a suit for the Slayer, but armor for a super marine

E3 2014 gameplay reveal doesn't have the Slayer's mark. I'd have to look through trailers to find when it first appeared publicly

[hard thistle]

I like the design even as a suit for the Slayer though. I like the serial codes and shit - feels like they tie in well to the Sentinels having manufacturing facilities and shit.

[split saddle]

2014 was 11 years ago …

[warm ibex]

actually I made a mistake: it's E3 2015 that doesn't have the slayer's mark. The build is definitely outdated but that at least shows the Slayer change was made very close to launch (relatively speaking)

[warm ibex]

I like the suit a lot, really no complaints regarding its design. I just think it's funny that it was originally something else entirely

[hard thistle]

I get the feeling 2016 was going through an identity crisis for most of its dev time since executives had like no faith in its single player content. This is actually a complaint I have with it - for all the pumpssucking people have for 2016's story it really does copy Doom 3's narrative, and it's because they had to play it pretty safe.

That said, they settled on mostly the right decisions by the end there.

[split saddle]

I appreciate doom 2016 having a dedicated crouch button

Best and most useful feature

[warm ibex]

oh that's no secret, it's a legitimate miracle that 2016 turned out the way that it did. Started development as Doom 4 all the way back in 2007 and only became 2016 after being stuck in dev hell and going through a period of "rolling reboot"

[split saddle]

I was a bit disappointed when doom dark ages didn’t have a dedicated flash light button

[warm ibex]

He bears the mark of the beast: F-90 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/892238793174818848/1442005743082405998/image.png?ex=6923dc00&is=69228a80&hm=1b9ffbb99422b5b96f4dae856838db3aa7b80ce44307cc8617ebec597d28b673

[split saddle]

oh lmao

That’s wild

[hard thistle]

That's crazy. I'm so glad they didn't stick with this shit. I don't think I'd care about Doom if they had.

Also am I being crazy or did Hugo soft confirm the next Doom game is a 2016-Eternal interquel??

"That's a different game"??

[obsidian shard]

Either that, or the Civil war

[hearty edge]

how tf do u use those numbers y'all put on the ripartorium forum

[hearty edge]

at least nirvana is done in like 3 minutes

downtown is way too long

[hearty edge]

what's the high council again

[cerulean pagoda]

in the final cutscene of mission 1 its mentioned that the high council was the one that gave their horde to azhrak

and in one of hugos streams someone asked when are we hunting down the high council he replied with something like "theres a lot of them out there"

[hard thistle]

They're the Order of the Six - they're the rulers of Hell during TDA, ruling in the interim until a Dark Lord can be appointed to succeed Davoth.

[cerulean pagoda]

in the statues of the forsaken plains we see some statues that resemble some scrapped concept arts from eternals artbook with davoths device in their chest, and if we go into 2016s testaments we see that it was hinted he was seeking vengeance against the dark lords, maybe the device symbolizes them being a dark lord? idk

[silent surge]

don’t forget the hugo phone voice recordings

which we didn’t know were a thing at the time

[harsh egret]

just copy paste them

[elder raven]

that was so funny to watch live lmao

[warm ibex]

that too lol

[warm ibex]

I think he just meant that it's not something they'd ever cover in TDA

it's a story for a different game

[hard thistle]

If it were a game man I'd freak the fuck out.

[hearty edge]

wher

[green estuary]

press F

[hearty edge]

alr

[warm ibex]

I hope it stays ambiguous. Partially because the last thing I want them do to after wrapping up the medieval storyline is start making games that fill in story gaps

[harsh egret]

change the rounds to 5 and press f in each of them and paste in each code

[ivory burrow]

Now I was talking about this theory with my friends the other day about if the dark lord and the slayer had already met since when the slayer finds davoths(the dark lords) life sphere in the ancient gods DLC in Doom Eternal, he wispers "are you prepared now, for this?" Like they had already fought and the doomslayer had gotten close to killing him first hand and or just didn't succeed at all. Idk I think that would be really cool to see.

[solid beacon]

slaying bazi on wolfenstine old blood.

[magic spoke]

me want another batman game....

other than the new lego one

[modern dust]

Every day I come across a YouTube video saying the Doom TDA DLC is finally available, so as long as you launch my game after the update and...

[hazy pasture]

It would do better as the comic than a game imo

[warm ibex]

true, true

[uneven dragon]

The manual kind of implies he doesn't die :P

and Legacy of Rust but obviously that's secondary material

[uneven dragon]

they should just get on making that fuckin interquel comic

that we got promised 1 trillion years ago

[uneven dragon]

Also oftentimes when he does it's kind of in a lame way :P

[hard thistle]

Sometimes it's cool. Erebus is an awesome idea.

[uneven dragon]

yea but it's also not a canon one (yet)

[hard thistle]

Also the Gladiator one as the last OG Hell Knight. That is cool.

[hard thistle]

Real. If he doesn't show up in TDA DLC I'll be irritated.

[uneven dragon]

icl

i know some of it was development constraints and some of it was change in plans

i would've preferred just having dis and babel and erebus instead of nekravol and kalibas

[uneven dragon]

yeah very true

though idk if that counts as an explanation in the vein of the rest of them and rather a cool detail

[hard thistle]

I suppose Babel would have been confusing to implement with the whole Sentinel slave detail.

[uneven dragon]

whats that again

[hard thistle]

The Nekravol Citadel was built by Sentinel slaves on the command of the Khan Maykr. If they originally were gonna have it be the Tower of Babel, well, you know, that was already built in Doom 1.

[uneven dragon]

could just say it's unfinished tbf

and that would actually have some basis given it was a wip in doom 1

but i cant complain abt nekravol too much anyway since it's nice giving hell new locations

[hard thistle]

I did really love Nekravol.

Still my favorite Hell level honestly.

[uneven dragon]

out of the modern doom games idk what hell level is my fave

maybe the first doom 2016 hell level?

last one of TDA was good fun too

[hard thistle]

Personally 2016's Hell levels are not my thing. Too "desolate rocky wasteland" and not enough "horrific infernal demon society."

Nekravol is my jam. IMO Forbidden Wastes is a good compromise between 2016 Hell and Eternal Hell.

A wasteland but a lived-in one. The Hell buildings are nice.

[uneven dragon]

i think 2016's first hell level just has rly good level design yk

unsure how i feel abt how it looks

[hard thistle]

It is a fun level, sure.

I will be real, I also think Damnation, the song, is overrated.

[uneven dragon]

tda's first hell level gets bonus points for how i giggled when i saw HELL in big red text

[uneven dragon]

aw :<

[hard thistle]

Yeah I'm sorry, but Infernal Chasm clears the shit out of it.

[uneven dragon]

i think damnation feels the most hellish of the 3 modern hell themes

[hard thistle]

Maybe... But it just kind of is boring to listen to.

[uneven dragon]

i think it's one that's better in game than it is outside of it

[mystic barn]

🙁

[hard thistle]

That's fair. I always skip it when I listen to Doom music.

[frosty roost]

morning

[hard thistle]

I think, honestly, I am just not big on 2016's OST outside the highlights. Skullhacker, VEGA Core, Mastermind, STHO36U3, Harbinger.

Eternal and TDA both have better OSTs for me.

[unkempt dragon]

m0no, I lobbied to make a lore channel so there's a good possibility

[hard thistle]

Hey, good to hear.

[unkempt dragon]

with tight restrictions/rules we're thinking, to prevent what you and I talked about earlier

[hard thistle]

Yeah that would be for the best.

[unkempt dragon]

I think it'd be fun to have all the info and questions in one channel, then people don't have to sift through to see full on topics with lore

[mystic barn]

If we’re taking into account all the unpaid music from Eternal, combined, I feel as though 2016 and Eternal have less memorable songs on the whole. SHTO36U3, for example, is good, but frustratingly simple. Most of the other tracks focus too much on mixed meter, which makes them difficult to call to memory on a whim (Flesh & Metal, Damnation, VEGA Core, etc.). Personally, tracks like Blood Harvesting, Consumption, DOOM Hunted, etc. lack the depth and pop-music feel of their related tracks (Super Gore Nest and Cultist Base respectively). By the same token, they’re hard to ignore as they made it into the final game, despite being demos. The standouts stand out exactly because they’re surrounded by otherwise unmemorable songs (this is not to say they’re bad of course). Finishing Move’s score for The Dark Ages, while incomplete, has continuous hits, and as a result, has fewer standouts because they’re all consistently good

[hard thistle]

Eternal has a fucklot of bangers for me. Gladiator, Hell On Earth, Meathook, Only Thing They Fear, Cultist Base, Metal Hell, and Urdak all rock. TDA also has a lot IMO - Ancestral Beast, Infernal Chasm, Into the Void, What Lies Below, Pursuit of Demons, Unholy Siege, Blood Red.

2016 just has less comparatively. I dunno why.

Man I haven't even mentioned the DLC tracks. I honestly think I prefer TAG's tracks as a whole.

You literally cannot beat Atlantica.

[mystic barn]

That LC synth pulse goes crazy

[random sand]

Funny how your favorites from TDA barely align with mine. Alot of bangers in there. My favs are WTSFL, Unchained Predaror, Unholy Siege, From The Ashes, Atlan Battleground and Blood Red

[mystic barn]

Guys, Battle on the Blackened Tide

[hard thistle]

From the Ashes goes hard.

[random sand]

Listening to it as we speak. Let's see

Ah, it's the one from the harbor of souls

[warm ibex]

that doesn't change anything for me personally

[uneven dragon]

Awww I love the 2016 ost

[random sand]

Yeah that one's good too

[warm ibex]

I think my interpretation of the vague story is better so I'll run with that unless they make an official statement lol

[uneven dragon]

I hope Hugo’s next livestream opens with “everything HORDE has ever said is wrong”

[uneven dragon]

For me 2016 has quite a lot of bangers

[warm ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/spiderman-gif-26333574

[mystic barn]

I’m not doubting that, they’re just not as memorable as Eternal’s tracks

[uneven dragon]

Flesh and Metal is the low point for me. It feels like it’s just going through the motions of a 2016 song

[random sand]

It has some for me. Alot of them tho are just way too much noise and way too much shit going on

[uneven dragon]

The rest all feel like they have something unique

[hard thistle]

Death of the Author:

https://tenor.com/view/mercy-overwatch-come-here-gif-14280244

[uneven dragon]

Hmmm hmm

[hard thistle]

Hugo countering with Death of the Fan is going to fucking wreck the fanbase.

[uneven dragon]

Can’t believe Hugo would behead Horde live like that

i didn’t think he meant it so literally

[warm ibex]

I've had it coming for a while, it was only a matter of time

[small dew]

Yo chads

Can someone explain how can I get the new ripatorium skin i dont understand

[solid nacelle]

You simply clear one round of all three maps

[small dew]

It doesnt matter the rules?

[solid nacelle]

Nope

[slender night]

Wow there is a miserable amount of images of the TDA Cacodemon online

[green jetty]

Hello I'm back

[split saddle]

Welcome back tit

[hazy pasture]

Greetings

[hazy pasture]

Agreed

[green jetty]

Back fr this time

Ima be here for a Lil bit

And all ppl are gone

[twilit stone]

story of my life

[frosty pine]

The ost version of SHTO36U3 annoys me since it doesn’t include the second phase music which sucks since that’s when the song starts to get interesting for me Imo

[mystic barn]

Agreed. If I remember correctly though, Mick said that the Crucible Guard music wasn’t originally going to make it onto the OST. He must have had to fill an extra three minutes of his contracted minutes, so decided to include just the first phase

[frosty pine]

Ah that explains it

Imo FM did boss music better than mick

I can absolutely respect what mick was doing with the boss music in 2016 and eternal and I wouldn’t call any of them bad (mastermind and gladiator are goated)