the-dark-ages

[mint wyvern]

yeah both DLC producers said that they weren't working on the dark ages

it remains a mystery for now

[misty beacon]

Source:
https://x.com/AndrewHulshult/status/1803898679322882419

Andrew Hulshult (@AndrewHulshult) on X

I'm not working on this one with id, but know that we'll meet again down the road. I think the trailer music nailed it and can't wait to go through the entire campaign as a fan again!

Twitter · Jun 20, 2024, 9:12 PM

[teal spire]

is there a confirmed release date outside of just "2025"?

[gloomy seal]

Ah, Mick Gordon is a hard act to follow, and I've yet to hear Hulshult's work on the TAG DLCs for Eternal, but I'm sure he did his damn best.

Whoever is gonna replace these two better be good.

[misty beacon]

2025 is all we officially know

[grim cloud]

im guessing late 2025

November 14th 2025 is my educated guess

Unless they show us gameplay like this year, which seems not likely. Only have TGA, that might bring us a trailer but i dont think we will get actual 15+ minutes of gameplay then

gameplay will be the next Xbox Direct. Which points to jan/feb

[winter idol]

i dont think we will get anything until next year

similar to what happened with eternal

[grim cloud]

eternal we got a teaser, then a gameplay trailer at QC, after that was a dark silence until "e3" 2019.

[winter idol]

yea

[grim cloud]

i guess they did have the stadia demo and slayers club between then however. My memory isn't perfect

[winter idol]

we will probably get a short teaser whenever the next major xbox showcase is

but nothing substantial until summer when marketing kicks off for a late 2025 launch

[grim cloud]

ill say the quake con demostration looked like a build or two older than the teaser we got last june.

So the next time we see the game, it will look much more polished

[winter idol]

yea their alphas usually look flat compared to later versions

[grim cloud]

i think it even said "pre-aplha" as a watermark on the video. can't remember, i was too engulfed in awe

[winter idol]

yea other people said the same thing

[grim cloud]

thankfully in the mean time, i can just get better with idstudio. Already have two wip mods released

[brave spoke]

Im hoping if prowlers come back in dark ages they get a noticeable buff

For a heavy demon in eternal they felt like fodders

[grim cloud]

they hsould of been two pips fo chainsaw fuel...

but yes, the imps certianaly look meatier as well. My guess is that they have even more complex gore kits. THe gore in dark ages is another step up like 2016 was to Eternal

You can probably shoot out a smiley face in the mancubu's gut in TDA

[brave spoke]

I meant difficulty wise but i get what you mean

[wheat sigil]

i think they functioned as fodder in the code or something even

[reef ocean]

Yeah. I feel prowlers, carcass, etc should be 2 pip chainsaw enemies.

[grim cloud]

chainsaw needed further balancing in Eternal. There should Always be a recharging pip because it felt like a waste to pick up a fuel thing before you finished the first charge

[wheat sigil]

the first charge is recharging tho

takes 20 seconds (effectively becomes about 18 seconds), and the tutorial mentions it

[brave spoke]

I think we should get more makyr drone like enemies that give ammo under certain circumstances

[dense gazelle]

Didn't like to fight those

Also the demonic troopers in tag 2 was a bad joke

[wheat sigil]

all tag2 enemies were bad lol

[brave spoke]

Me when cursed prowlers and stone imps

[wheat sigil]

and screechers, and armored barons, and blood maykrs, and riot soldiers

[brave spoke]

Oh screechers are the woorst

Armored barons i think are pretty good actually

They feel like really big marauders where youre just playing the waiting game until you get to stun them

[wheat sigil]

i love the push forward combat when im supposed to sit still waiting for an enemy to flash green

[brave spoke]

But you can also just wail on them

[dense gazelle]

What about the 2016 MP only harvester demon?

Liked his design

[brave spoke]

I mean, theyre usually very last on your priority list

Same with marauders

[wheat sigil]

does that fix it?

[brave spoke]

Also unlike marauders you can still shoot him while armored

[wheat sigil]

waiting for an enemy to flash green randomly is the best in a game supposedly all about push forward combat

[wheat sigil]

you can damage marauders with splash damage, and that isn't a good option, same goes for armored barons with their shields

[brave spoke]

“Push forward combat” isnt the only part of doom eternal

Me when i “push forward combat” a mancubus

[wheat sigil]

sure, but it doesn't make sense to blatantly contradict it still, and in what world is standing still waiting for an enemy to flash green fun?

[brave spoke]

Enemies like armored baron or marauders utilize other elements of the games design, like enemy prioritization, proper timing and faltering to extend how much damage you can deal

[brave spoke]

If you stand still against a marauder hes just gonna pelt you with projectiles lol

You dont “stand still” against a marauder, you need to sidestep his projectiles in a 1v1 situation, stay just far enough away from him so he cant shotgun you (especially when he dashes towards you) and anticipate his attacks

[wheat sigil]

my bad, i forgot about holding down S between cycles for 2 seconds, truly riveting gameplay....

[brave spoke]

Arguing that you need to “stand still” to best a marauder is a very bad faith criticism

[wheat sigil]

here is an example of how utterly easy and boring marauders are
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD3NVCuOBEc

i took no hits, had no dashes, didn't jump and intentionally didn't quick switch against a possessed marauders

[brave spoke]

And how often are you set in a situation with exactly one marauder

This is such a bad example because the game gives you that scenario once lol

Most of the time youre given tons of other enemies to deal with alongside the marauder

Even 2 marauders

[wheat sigil]

and then i deal with them and am left with once again, one single marauder to deal with

he's not exactly hard to ignore

[brave spoke]

Yeah thats how you deal with a marauder

What exactly did you do differently than much other enemies

You shot at it with good timing big whoop

Thats not “destroying the games design”

[wheat sigil]

you don't need any timing at all lol, his green eye flash is ridiculously long and incredibly easy to predict
(i predict it every single time)

[brave spoke]

And?

[wheat sigil]

i wait to deal with him last and then i have to wait for him to attack me, i cant attack him

peak game design, truly

[brave spoke]

Ya know like a ton of games design enemies like this right?

Youre acting like this is a sin of game design

[wheat sigil]

and all of them suck, it's why im no fan of blood maykrs and armored barons

[brave spoke]

Sounds like whining to me man to be completely honest

But its your opinion so im not gonna push it any further

[wheat sigil]

i am pointing out a bad choice in the game's design

[brave spoke]

A “bad choice” and its just a different type of enemy

Its not a “bad choice” to make it so that you cant unga bunga everything to death

[wheat sigil]

i still do that, it's just that i have to stand and wait to do it

which is not exactly my definition of fun

[brave spoke]

Then its an opinion, not a “bad choice”

Its not bad design you just dont like it

Theres a pretty big difference there

My only problem with marauders is that you cant crucible them while stunned that doesnt really make much sense

You can bfg it but not crucible

[wheat sigil]

all you do with the marauder is literally

1. wait for him to flash green eye
2. shoot
3. hold down S for 2 seconds
4. repeat once more

with other enemies i can fight them on my terms, how i want and without having to wait for some stupid specific attack

[brave spoke]

Ok well thats your opinion

You think its bad and thats that

It doesnt make it bad design or anything like that just because YOU find it dull

[wheat sigil]

it directly contradicts what Hugo himself said the game is built upon

[brave spoke]

Ok and? Still doesnt make it a poorly designed enemy just because it has a different design philosophy than most demons

Once again, your opinion doesnt make it fact

[hard thistle]

It disrupts the flow of combat. It is bad.

[brave spoke]

God forbid you gotta play the game differently for a small handful of enemies

[hard thistle]

Hey guys I'm trying to deal with this big horde of enemies and so I'm kind of under a lot of pressure right now. You know what would make things even better? An enemy I can't even damage until the right fucking moment. That would a lot of fucking fun. I love it so much! It's so much fun! Fun fun fun!

[brave spoke]

Local players discover enemy priorities

The marauder isnt even that hard to prioritize, you put him dead last because focusing too hard on him will get you killed, so you avoid him (which is very easy mind you) until you clear everyone out and can fight him in a 1v1 (how hes designed to be fought)

His projectiles are easy to dodge, the only time youll be dealing with him if you avoid him and deal with other enemies is if some fodder demon blocks his shield, in which case you gotta deal with a dog that dies instantly

You guys would die if you played something like salmon run

[wheat sigil]

i woudln't say im bad at doom eternal

[brave spoke]

That message you just responded to sure does say doom eternal

[wheat sigil]

i just assumed its a term for some weird restricted run made up by the playerbase

because i dont see how any other game is relevant here

and the marauder is pathetically easy, but that doesnt make him a good enemy in any way

[brave spoke]

Horde mode that requires people to learn proper prioritization and learn enemy weaknesses (many of which are invulnerable for long periods until attacking)

[brave spoke]

In your opinion

[wheat sigil]

id say i can prioritize enemies in eternal, and i know their weaknesses better than the vast majority

[brave spoke]

I do not care if you do or do not like the marauder thats your deal, but you cant just walk around acting like your opinion is fact

[hard thistle]

There's a difference between prioritizing targets and needing to ignore one guy cause he sucks all your attention from everything else

[brave spoke]

Not really, actually

That is kinda what prioritizing is actually

Dont you prioritize things in real life based off of factors like how much of your attention its gonna take

Like if something takes less attention you knock it out first so its less to worry about

You literally said its not prioritizing and then described prioritizing

[hard thistle]

Prioritize this: I think it sucks!!!

[brave spoke]

Good for you

[brave spoke]

_ _

[hard thistle]

Idk where I was going with that LOL but seriously a lot of people don't find it very fun

[brave spoke]

Thats good for them

[hard thistle]

If so many people don't like it then maybe it's not actually good

[brave spoke]

Many people also find it fun

This is a stupid take

[slender night]

The general public shits on stuff I find genuine masterpieces so personally I wouldn't use the general opinion as a basis

[brave spoke]

Yeah

[wheat sigil]

something something bell curve

[brave spoke]

Ok show us the bell curve

[mossy geyser]

I know people think dark ages takes place before doom eternal but

[brave spoke]

They often say the best art is alienating, so general consensus on stuff usually kinda sucks

[wheat sigil]

it usually goes like this
people on the lower end of the bell curve don't like him
people in the middle of the bell curve like him
people on the higher end of the bell curve don't like him

[brave spoke]

Cool can you show us that bell curve backed by statistics?

[wheat sigil]

so, beginners don't like him, average players like him, and more advanced players dont like him
usually

[wheat sigil]

from having interacted with many, many people and other people saying the same thing

[brave spoke]

Yeah thats not good evidence

[mossy geyser]

I think it would be something like Doomguy going to the past or going to another realm or something

[brave spoke]

You cant just say “from experience”

[slender night]

Well yes but the store descriptions call it a prequel to 2016

[wheat sigil]

i pretty much can, because ive been around this community a decent bit

got 22k messages in this server alone

[brave spoke]

From experience i know a lot of people who enjoy eating feces

[mossy geyser]

I think it would take place between eternal and 2016

[brave spoke]

Ive been around the community a lot so id know

[slender night]

That's not a prequel to 2016 then though

[mossy geyser]

Eternal is before 2016

[brave spoke]

What

[wheat sigil]

no

[slender night]

What makes you say that?

[wheat sigil]

?
what does this have to do with anything

[brave spoke]

Baseless claim with no actual backing

[wheat sigil]

but anyways, if you ask pretty much any more advanced player they'll tell you they don't like the marauder, and many average players like him

[brave spoke]

Wanna bring up a bell curve? Use actual statistics instead of trying to use your status in a community as leverage

Really stupid way to argue a point

And even then that's irrelevant

The consensus of pro players doesnt make an opinion a fact

[wheat sigil]

Yeah, ik, it was just a response to you saying a ton of players do like him, not really relevant to rhe discussion

[stray plover]

Do you think that the cape will be customizable

[brave spoke]

Yeah cuz i was responding to this

[brave spoke]

Like independently from doom slayer's skin or

It'll probably change with skins

[stray plover]

Like, it can have preset skins and redesigns that go with slayer skins(if they add them) or you have the choice to mix&match

[brave spoke]

Probably not

[stray plover]

I mean like how they did with the weapons

[brave spoke]

Yeah but it's different with weapons

[stray plover]

They have sets they go with specifically but you have the choice to use any of them once unlocked

[brave spoke]

Weapons are completely unrelated to the player model

Meanwhile the cape is part of the player model so youd have to do extra work to make it mixable

[stray plover]

It was just a thought

[brave spoke]

Not a bad one it would be a nice feature

[prime sentinel]

Doom: The Dark ages

[stray plover]

Yes

[granite beacon]

doom slayer

so no retractable knife

in the origins

[unborn tiger]

John Doom's emo phase

also known as his Dark Ages™️

[hard thistle]

what is bro on.

[mossy geyser]

Oh wait sorry I looked it up earlier I read some article that Eternal was a prequel

[honest vortex]

Unless you are Zaz who likes the Marauder and disses even high/top level players who criticize him lol.

[honest vortex]

Maybe if you count a non-canon SnapMap that's framed as a sequel to Eternal as "head canon" I guess

[mossy geyser]

Dude I just accepted that it’s not that way

[honest vortex]

True.

[mossy geyser]

Can we please stop

Well some how I feel like Dark Ages would be the kind of game storyline where “A story can’t end, without a beginning”

What do you think?

[honest vortex]

Ye

[mossy geyser]

Thanks

Btw what do you think of the way Dark Ages would go

I mean it would not be the end of the series but again “A story can’t end without a beginning”

So who knows

I mean as they say a story can begin without an end but a story can’t end without a beginning

I am not saying it won’t be a prequel but

It would be the kind of prequel that would have multiple endings to cause different canons which would serve as sort of a catalyst for the series. I mean one ending could lead to the previous entries another could lead to another list of entries etc

[tribal lagoon]

I think it’s definitely gonna end up with Doomguy being sealed in the Sarcophagus

[mossy geyser]

Well I think it would be one ending

But developing a series with one storyline for over 30 years is hard and tedious. I am okay with them doing it but I feel as if the developers would not want to have to develop another game in the same story for 50 years

I just feel like it would be too difficult for the devs to make another game in the same story

You have to add something new to what you already have and it has to be juicy or it gets bad reviews on its first few months and doesn’t sell well, causing you to lose a lot of money

I think by ending (but not ruining) good franchises like Earthbound and God of War, they never jumped the shark. Similarly Doom would jump the shark if they had the same story path. They probably would make a good game without letting one story jump the shark. They would still make Doom but it just won’t be the same path where Demons invaded the Earth forever in EVERY installment

One path would be the sarcophagus another would be the Slayer, let’s say, having lost his shield only to find it again I. Another game and more

[tribal lagoon]

well the issue with that is that Doom is ALL ABOUT demons. It's like Minecraft without the blocky look

Though I do see what your saying

[tribal lagoon]

considering Dark Ages takes place between 64 and 2016 I cant see any other ending that isnt the sarcophagus

[flat phoenix]

Hm

[old owl]

I think they will bring back Infighting in Dark Ages since it’s inspired by classic dooms. And since game’s slower and less vertical, infighting is like a natural fit for the game

[wise helm]

I want it.

[placid saffron]

The only really made a cohesive storyline from 2016, before that there's barely anything and barely connected

[old owl]

games like Doom and Hitman, storyline never really matters. most of us just don't play them for the story

[placid saffron]

Doesn't mean it doesn't exist and only really since 2016

[honest vortex]

Dewm free as well

[placid saffron]

Dewm?

Oh 3, ehhh that game's story is detached from the other games

[dense gazelle]

A Halloween timed new out of nowhere trailer would be also well placed regarding the gloomy atmosphere now

[unborn tiger]

and that will probably explain the beginning of the game released after tda, taking place after tag pt 2

like a "somehow palpatine returned" trope

just speculating

[tribal lagoon]

My running theory is that Samurs gonna unlock the seal somehow with the whole “Maykrs are super smart” thing in the lore

He’s gonna do something for sure

[unborn tiger]

fr

Bethesda is not going to shoot the goose that lays golden eggs

[covert crow]

I know people have said this to death

But when they gave the slayer a fuzzy cape I was immediately on board

[hearty raft]

/starsetup

trust..

[raven trench]

Is dark ages coming to gamepass or ps plus at all?

[prime sentinel]

day one gamepass

[raven trench]

YESSSSSS cuz money can die but DOOOOOOM IS ETERNAL

Hehe

[prime sentinel]

🧑‍🌾

[balmy rose]

I have a ps4 I won’t be able to play dark ages ):

[stoic prairie]

upgrade to pc

make budget of 600 dollas or 500

[misty beacon]

I have a PC with a 4090. I will be able to play dark ages.

[dense gazelle]

Good that it doesn't come to ps4 so this should tell us it will involve much more enemies on screen to dismember

[balmy rose]

I’m not really a pc guy I got a pc but it’s not that good and can’t run 2016 so I might upgrade to ps5 🤷‍♂️

[stoic prairie]

build new one use the same controller on it

[prime sentinel]

Okay money bags

[slender night]

Spyro moment?

[prime sentinel]

I suspect my pc will be able to run the dark ages but I want a new one

[nocturne agate]

The ssg in dark ages ohhhhhhhh

[glad ivy]

someone's gotta poke id software with a stick to ensure they're alive

[balmy rose]

Im not building an entire pc just for doom dark ages

[stoic prairie]

then u not big doom fan but u doom fan also i meant like u could upgrade it in the future and get ur work done and etc etc and shit liek that

for building a pc costing 500$

[balmy rose]

ohh ok

also I like doom it’s just some people can’t afford to do that

[balmy rose]

Id rather get a ps5

[hard thistle]

They're just busy dawg they only announced the game 3 months ago what do you want

[cyan lotus]

doom fans have got to be the most impatient and incompetent fans that a franchise could ask for

people asking like “what are they going to do without mick gordon” as if the entirety of TAG wasn’t done without him, which suggests they didn’t even really touch the game

people already trying to hypothesize on post launch content when we don’t even have a release date for the game itself yet

also just not being able to grasp basic concepts even if a tutorial spells it out word for word

people saying stuff like “how was I supposed to know the chainsaw refills itself” because it tells you the instant you pick it up what could you possibly mean

[slow nexus]

Hey guys, u think dark ages could be released in february - march of 2025 or could be in september - december of 2025?

[dire jewel]

did we ever get properly mixed versions of the eternal soundtrack or nah

[cyan lotus]

No

[dire jewel]

🤦‍♂️

[sleek rune]

Dark ages looks cool rn

[slow nexus]

Hmmm, a dark ages trailer or gameplay in 31th anniversary could be cool, but its very unlikely

[agile osprey]

Sonme specific tracks like command & control iirc

And cultist base but thats all I remember

[winter idol]

late 2025, if it were releasing in spring then marketing would have probably already started

[slow nexus]

Hmmm it have sense for me

So, the second trailer probably be in ssg 2025 and later that the release date

Or second trailer in 31th anniversary and in ssg a third trailer with release date

[cerulean stone]

Hey I actually have never played a DOOM game, (besides the first one on shareware) should I wait for the Dark Ages to come out first or just play Eternal? I just want some opinions

[inland sundial]

Your choice

[silver oriole]

I would recommend 2016 since its the best starting point imo but its your choice

[honest vortex]

Classic DOOM and especially Custom WADs endless collection of crazy MIDIs also proves Doom doesn't need Mick Gordon at all

Anyway I love Mick Gordon's work on Killer Instinct, DOOM 2016, and Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus.

But I'll confess I didn't really like his work on Eternal that much. I preferred the DLC music over his Eternal music even.

[cyan lotus]

There’s multiple additions that could be made to my point yes but I don’t think it can get anymore ridiculous than pointing out the most surface level rebuttal to the logic of these people, which is the fact that mick was replaced and has been for almost 4 years now and you have people acting like the game will be irreparably changed with his absence

and here’s a point I’ve made and I’ll keep making, people only cared about micks situation because of the community making memes about him and drawing more publicity to him, if this were anybody else like “john smith, an enemy ai designer, didn’t get paid by ID” nobody would’ve cared at all, people only care because they’re trend hoppers

tl;dr people only care about mick because they saw other people caring first

[tribal lagoon]

best you'll get are the koma mixes

which are great

[prime sentinel]

Doesn’t really matter either way, people should get paid for their work

[cyan lotus]

it does not matter yes, but my point is peoples empathy towards the cause is purely performative

so performative infact that people in protest did things that mick explicitly told people not to do

[prime sentinel]

I think if a journalist did a piece on someone at any company not getting paid for their work people would care

Because that’s kind of a big deal

I mean, people are pretty upset about all the layoffs in the industry at the moment

At places like bungie for example

The problem is cases like this aren’t always publicized

I’m not touching this particular case because one side is radio silent and I don’t think it’s best to comment on it here especially, but abuse does happen and people should care

[empty furnace]

sometime past June would be appropriate

[turbid moon]

doom tda price estimation?

[winter idol]

either 60 or 70 USD

its a AAA game

[neon gust]

I'm betting on 70 since it's becoming the new industry standard

[misty beacon]

Dunno if 10 bucks more or less are really that big of a deal
Especially in a quality game from id software

[grim cloud]

yah 70 bucks for the normal version

probably 100 for deluxe, and perhaps even more for the super deluxe if they do it

if games followed traditional inflation, they would be hundreds of dollars. I paid 65 dollars for N64 games like 20+ years ago, NES games were 50 bucks.

and to top it off, the games were MUCH smaller in size and scope at the time.

[flat pulsar]

With TDA will imps be upgraded to a heavy like enemy from their previous fodder depiction

[sick flower]

@cyan lotus I completely agree with you. I actually prefer Andrew Hulshut and David Levy over Gordon. I think they sound so much better than him

[cyan lotus]

it was never a matter of who I thought was better I just thought peoples lack of awareness was a bit silly

[hard thistle]

Dunno about full blown heavy but at least not as much of a pushover. Maybe like mecha zombie tier as far as health goes if I had to guess

[delicate grotto]

I doubt it. Would be an odd direction imo and it wouldn’t make much sense with demon evolution between games.

[flat pulsar]

Hope they don’t become heavies

[honest vortex]

I'd agree only on Eternal's OST as I think Eternal is the weakest OST that Mick Gordon has ever done.

His work on Killer Instinct, Wolfenstein, and D2016 was so much better.

[scenic lichen]

im curious because this sounds pretty unpopular, what songs do you think are his best?

[dark peak]

What
The
Fuck

[dark peak]

Yup they are just NPCs

[agile osprey]

Cultist base, gladiator, final sin for eternal

[atomic breach]

Wait you guys know if mick Gordon will be in dark ages

[hard thistle]

0% chance

[plucky plinth]

Yeah, 0 chance

[honest sundial]

after what happened with Zenimax/Bethesda?

that bridge is ash

[honest vortex]

I only really like Gladiator.

Used to love TOTTFIY but got beyond tired of it.

[honest vortex]

Inferno (Cinder's Theme)
Hinnamatoom
I'm Back (to Rise)
Right Trigger Warning
Nazi Punks, GTFO
Terror-Billy
Flesh and Metal
VEGA Core
Skullhacker
Harbinger
Damnation
Hell Choirs
Hell Guard
Rust, Dust, and Guts
Transistor Fist
Rip and Tear (Game Rip)
BFG Division
Temperance and Vengeance
The Partisan (feat Tex Perkins)
Gladiator
The Only Thing They Fear is You
DOOM Hunted

(Only three Eternal songs on the list I'd say)

[scenic lichen]

ive listened to inferno recently, very good

[honest vortex]

Indeed. It's like an earlier version of BFG Division.

[dark peak]

Cultist base ost is my top 1

[honest vortex]

DOOM Hunted is basically Cultist Base on steroids.

[dark peak]

Looks like is the doom hunter base theme, i like it but cultist base is still my top 1 💪

[honest vortex]

DOOM Hunted is different from the Doom Hunter Base theme, plays only on one arena

Still plays on the DOOM Hunter Base though

[dark peak]

Lololol is the arena with the first pinkie??

[honest vortex]

Ye

[candid surge]

Does anyone know the music in The Dark Ages official ad?

Sounds sick as hell

[winter idol]

its a song for the game, its not released yet

[supple river]

Where can I write my wishes for the future game? There is no e-mail, the only place left is here. I want to write to the developers so that they can fix the ultra-nightmare mode in game. In Doom16 and Eternal you don’t want to play through the game in this mode because of the routine: look for secrets again, level up again, watch the weapon pick up animation a hundred times, listen to the same monologues and watch cutscenes.

Is it possible to cut out the entire routine for Ultra-Nightmare? So that there are no secrets and upgrades happens automatically? So that the player is only required to run and shoot, and not engage in routine management on the hundredth attempt.

It would also be great if the developers make the enemy randomizer mod for Eternal as an official cheat for the new game.

[winter idol]

there will be no more gameplay additions to eternal, thats why they made mdding

[honest sundial]

^
"Well we're done with it. Have the modding tools as a going away present and have fun."

[winter idol]

you literally dont need to watch cutscenes or collect secrets when replaying eternal . . .

[honest sundial]

also why are you playing a Doom game and wanting secrets gone

the entire point is they reward you with early stuff for having a keen eye

[winter idol]

ive literally never seen anyone say they wanted secrets gone before in UN

literally . . . just dont grab them

[winter idol]

in eternal you can skip the weapon pickup animation and skip all cutscenes . . . what are you talking about?

[supple river]

If you want live longer you NEED pick up secrets.

[supple river]

But not in doom16. And I talked about in-game monologues, not only cutscenes.

[slender night]

Monologues is fair but if in 2016 you can't but you can in Eternal I'd expect TDA to have it

[honest sundial]

This was true in the older games as well

It's your reward for exploration. Extra health, ammo, and sometimes straight up snagging a weapon early.

[slender night]

Tbh I don't remember a single time I NEEDED a secret on HMP for id-made WADs

[honest sundial]

heck the praetor token stuff is mostly convenience stuff, like ignoring barrel damage

[slender night]

If you want UN to give you everything just ask for an NG+ mode

[wheat sigil]

At least in Eternal, the only 2 preator suit upgrades that really make a difference is hot swapper and faster dash

[honest sundial]

it feels like the guy wants Dark Ages to just be a straight up linear shootfest

[slender night]

So unDOOM it?

At least unmodern, a lot of Classic is linear but not all of it

[supple river]

This is only cool on the first playthrough, but not on the hundredth.

[supple river]

I thought about it, but then the first levels would be too easy.

[slender night]

And they wouldn't on UN?

NG+ would be the same difficulty as UN with everything unlocked lol

[supple river]

The level design was designed for systematic progression. 100% upgrades of the last levels with a new game+ will make the first levels too easy.

[slender night]

Rereading your original message, I misunderstood a bit. My bad.

[supple river]

But NG+ will great work with enemy randomizer mod.

[astral fossil]

Do you guys think they will make the classic MP in Dark Ages?

[slender night]

You mean DM?

[scenic lichen]

Im just hoping for coop campaign

imagine you're a slayer and your buddy is a sentinel or smth

would go very hard

[supple river]

Even if they do, they will not be able to support it. Multiplayer is not just a mode, but a service. And id has already proven many times that it doesn’t know how to support multiplayer. Doom16 had an amazing online mode (include amazing snap map), but the developers abandoned it. You can also remember Quake Champions. Yes, the game was made by another studio, but the publisher still couldn’t pull off the project. And to be honest, I just don’t understand what the problem is. My favorite example is Killing Floor 2. The developers gave up on the game a long time ago, but they at least outsourced its support.

[supple river]

Although I forgot that Killing Floor 2 and Quake Champions are outsourced to the same studio - Saber Interactive.

[slender night]

KF2 sucks imo

[supple river]

However, if the developers read this, then I will express the thought that the secret of a good online game lies not in the gameplay, but in the community. Players must communicate with each other, and not just compete, and the game and developers motivate this communication and create conditions for this. Then the network game will live.

The Quake Champions did not become popular because the original Quake 3 was released in the era of computer clubs. But now all matches take place in deathly silence and you have the feeling that you are playing with bots, there is no communication.

The company's policy regarding the game engine also contributed. Servers customized by users are very important, as they correct developers’ mistakes and make the game more fun, but id tech’s policy prohibits such modding of game servers.

[supple river]

Now - yes, this is a bad game, but it was good once. It's all cosmetics' fault.

However, the game has many custom servers, and the admins on them made the gameplay fun, correcting the laziness of the developers. So it's better to judge KF2 by fan custom servers, and not by vanilla.

And its online is many times higher than any id game. And the spirit in it is sometimes much more doom-like than in the latest dooms. It's a big oversight on id's part that they weren't inspired by this game in any way. There are a lot of cool ideas and implementations there.

[slender night]

I got it for 1 USD and still refunded it. Didn't like it at all

[supple river]

Exclusively your problem. The game has a large fan community.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBf47yRpOM8

[slender night]

I'm not trying to force my opinion as a fact, I know it's my problem

[supple river]

Although it only just dawned on me that Killing Floor 3 and Doom Dark Ages will be released side by side.

[astral fossil]

True. I was thinking about it myself. Just finished both MP in Doom 2016 and in Eternal, last one is controversial imho, but the 2016 was as good as it was 8 years ago, but with only ~30 people playing with each other.

[pearl crown]

Is dark ages going to be a series x/s exclusive or will it be available on older consoles?

[honest sundial]

you really shouldnt expect that in the slightest

[honest vortex]

Xbox Series X/S are the only Xboxes where it's playable

[pearl crown]

Okay thank you

[supple river]

To be honest, I think SnapMap is a much more genious mode. This could be a MarioMaker from the FPS world. It is designed for co-op and is also a multiplayer mode.

[whole urchin]

i cried tears of joy while watching the trailer

[honest vortex]

There's been a lot of amazing SnapMaps I have played lately.

Especially ones utilizing Custom Geo and SnapHak tech.

Some SnapMaps I liked equally, maybe even more than the best classic DOOM custom fanmade WADs that I played barring maybe Ancient Aliens.

Very very overlooked feature.

[unreal terrace]

????

[unborn kettle]

I have a feeling dark ages

will have mixed reviews

[hard thistle]

I'd imagine somebody's gonna start up another discussion about the mick thing when the game starts getting more traction

Especially when they reveal who the composer is

[cyan lotus]

Doom fans are broken records

[hard thistle]

You can say that again

[cyan lotus]

The next time I see a game journalist joke I’m gonna go insane

[hard thistle]

Like it's been years how can you STILL be on that

[cyan lotus]

game journalist jokes are often made by people also not very good at the game which makes it such good irony

[main yoke]

do you guys know if there's gonna be hell levels

the screenshots just have a lot of quake castles

[neon perch]

My main concern is that they'll do a full 180° from Eternal and the combat will err too much on the easy side. I'm not so sure about the shield mechanic all things considered.

Also the fighting spaces being huge flat planes with little verticality and every weapon seemingly dealing way too much damage I'm a bit on edge about. I want a bigger emphasis on exploration and an expansion of the combat composition Eternal proposed. I'm hoping they can avoid another TAG 2 situation and not backtrack on their previous design decisions and start coddling the player by introducing cheap cheese strats.

[unreal terrace]

they said they wanted to have gameplay closer to classic doom which explains the very flat terrain

[neon perch]

Problem with that is classic Doom is already kind of easy. It's not until you get into the dickishness of Plutonia and the like that it really starts putting the hurt on, and that's mostly to do with enemy usage and positioning. Hell the main technological advancement Doom's engine boasted over Wolf 3D was being able to place enemies in high spots, different floor heights, and a sector lighting system that allowed for some portions of the map to be dimmer than others.

Worst case scenario is they forego the tenets of classic Doom and it winds up being a Serious Sam clone where everything is a fullbright horizontal plane, and the player ocassionally dodges slow-moving fireballs while tackling enemies from afar.

I would be REALLY pissed if they did that. But I trust that won't be the case.

[prime sentinel]

Definitely saw hell in the gameplay

[tribal lagoon]

Hell is definitely gonna be in the game but yeah also get used to those castles I mean this is the age of the Night Sentinels

[supple river]

The recent release of Doom Legacy of Rust showed that mapping design is at a dead end. Developers can develop gameplay only through artificial rake, and not through fun. Respawn mobs behind your back, lock the doors in small rooms, don’t give them ammo etc. Even Doom Eternal had the same problem - all battles always followed the same scenario, and nothing depended of the map structure.

And then SnapMap shows that there is a way out of the deadend - scripts. But there is such a nuance that in professional game development, the creation of assets and the artistic part will come first, rather than the gameplay. And it’s unlikely that the industry will soon mature to the idea that the emphasis should be on script system rather than assets.

I also forgot to mention "Doom Infinite" mod, which also solves the problem of map design deadend through scripts scenarios. It will be a shame if id doesn't play this mod, doesn't play snapmap, and then doesn't realize the importance of scripting.

[neon perch]

LOL, you just called core encounter design principles in Doom 'a dead end in design', 'artificial' and 'not dependant on map structure'. How DARE a map enforce ammo starvation, close quarter ambushes and a solid gameplay loop that encourages smart positioning and quick reflexes, presenting a respectable challenge while remaining familiar enough to anyone with good enough muscle memory. Objectively unfun.

How can it even dream to compare to the intricacy of the 'interact -> summon 7 imps' logic node from SnapMap? Truly revolutionary stuff. I want to be able to carry ALL THE AMMO, have ALL THE CONTROL OVER EVERY ENCOUNTER and use SCRIPTS FOR EVERYTHING and I'm NOT KIDDING.

[prime sentinel]

Might be easier than dlc eternal

But I don’t think it’ll be “too easy”

I mean, if you play doom for the challenge it might not be your bag but we don’t know yet

[tribal lagoon]

It’s almost like Doom Infinite turns Doom into an entirely different genre which has its whole thing be replay ability. Who would have thought

Can’t compare Doom Infinite to normal Classic Doom or DOOM Eternal at all its a dumb comparison

[supple river]

Its not about "comparison", its about conception - scripts better then mapping. Maps its just beauty. Scripts - its gameplay.

[tribal lagoon]

When you have a core gameplay loop like an Eternal you tend not to mess with it each encounter as that would cause disruption within gameplay. Enemy placement and resource management is how Eternal changes things up. It’s not that there design has reached a dead end it’s simply just them using the core gameplay loop they developed and we don’t know how it’s gonna look in Dark Ages

Besides this type of design is common place in this genre so it’s to be expected anyway

[supple river]

Point of "Doom" is feeling "Blood Rush". If you dont feel it - game dont work. If you feel it - its Doom. At "Legacy of Rust" there is no blood rush. All this picking, milling, saving, poking into dead ends of labyrinths, searching for lunar secrets. Its all boring and routine.

[tribal lagoon]

This is a very subjective thing

[supple river]

No. Modern gamers and devs forgot the old common truth: Good game is "easy to learn, hard to master". But modern developers do "hard to learn, easy to master". Specifically, the Eternal developers are artificially complicating the game by messing up macros. The best example is grenades. They could have put two types of grenades on two different buttons, but no. They placed the grenade switch on the second button, artificially complicating the player's life.

If you look at the gameplay of pro players in Eternal or Ultrakill, there is no gameplay there. Their passage can be tied to the execution of macros. Do you want to kill the Marauder? Hang a quick change of all guns on one button - he will die instantly.

If a game can be replaced by a macro, it's a bad game.

[cyan lotus]

you speak like somebody who’s never even played eternal before

and if eternals so easy to master, please show me your achievements

please show an example of that last thing you mentioned and you might seem a bit more credible, until then, you’re making stuff up in an attempt to seem intelligent

[wheat sigil]

I can say for certain I have a long way to go to master Eternal, even after over 770 hours in the game

[wheat sigil]

Could you show a video of a pro Eternal player?

[supple river]

I dont say "easy\hard play". I say "good/bad game". Make hard game - its easy. Make funny game - its hard. Eternal for me without cinema-elemets is boring. But SnapMap with geart script-system or Infinite is fun. It's funny that Dark Ages will copy Dark Souls with its parry elements. There is a good video explaining that Dark Souls is just a bad game, since it works on the principle of “hard to learn@easy to master”. But its on Russian.

[cyan lotus]

so notice how none of that answered anything I asked you?

[supple river]

Its on russian:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxdQ3fS_kdg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj0H-_eizsc

[supple river]

I answered your questions. You started saying that playing Eternal is easy, to which I told you that initially it was about fun, not about difficulty. And I put above videos that Eternal is built on macros.

[cyan lotus]

do you know what the word macro means

because I feel like we’re having a huge portion of each others words lost in translation

[supple river]

Execute a set of commands with one button. The word "Macro" has several meanings. But in the case of games, it is generally accepted that this is the replacement of a bunch of actions by pressing one button. Above I gave an example with grenades in Eternal. When they could hang two types of grenades on two buttons, but made it so that the second button must be used to switch the type of grenades. This is a macro. Instead of one click, you should do two.

[unreal terrace]

https://tenor.com/view/talking-to-the-wall-gif-25370159

[cyan lotus]

alright yeah I am wasting my time aren’t i

[wheat sigil]

I would not call this guy a pro

The movement showcased is very basic

[cyan lotus]

apparently the ability to pb rocket makes anybody a pro

[wheat sigil]

Yeah... people quick switching well fools a lot of people

But the truth is that it's only a very small portion of the game, and you need to be able to see all the other facets of Eternal

[supple river]

This is called "hard to learn, easy to master". You should read guides on the Internet to become a master, and not be guided by what the game offers you. The game uses artificial complications that beats with knowledge or macros, not skill.

And, yes, all these “hidden” mechanics are mostly a bug. In fact, Doom16 and Eternal were originally developed for a gamepad. And only then their controls were ported to PC. This is why the game seems very easy on Nightmare, because you need to play with a gamepad. I played through these two games with both a mouse and a gamepad, and I will say that these are completely different experiences.

With a mouse you rely more on aim and speed. And with a gamepad for tactics. And I didn’t notice many tactical elements when I played with the mouse.

[cyan lotus]

could you provide the source where it says the game was designed for controller?

[unreal terrace]

how tf can something be easy to master if it is hard to learn lmao

[supple river]

The entire modern gaming industry first makes projects for gamepads, and only then for mouse. Doom16 grew out of the Rage era. And the proof that Rage was made for gamepads is the loading of textures. The game was simply not designed for mouse speed and the textures did not have time to load. But on the gamepad there was no such problem.

[cyan lotus]

so you do not have a source?

it’s just an assumption made via correlation?

curious, I can make stuff up like that too

doesn’t make it true however

[supple river]

I recently played a game called Freedom Planet. The last boss in it seems very difficult. But as you die dozens of times, you will learn its patterns and it will become very simple. If you could initially study his patterns normally, then he would pass the first time. But the game artificially complicated it, so that you have to die many times to understand them. Here a good video that explains why dark souls its bad game because of "hard to learn, easy to master", but again its on russian; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faMvk9I0d0E

[unreal terrace]

that just seems hard to learn, harder to master

[honest vortex]

"Hard to learn, easy to master" do you not realize the greatest contradiction of all time within that statement?

[unreal terrace]

THATS WHAT IM SAYIN

[cyan lotus]

if doom eternal were “easy to master” surely this fellow would have some depth defying achievements to his name within this game, and if not, there’s the heavy implication that he did not learn the game

[honest vortex]

Classic DOOM had a lot of labyrinths and secret finding.

Wtf are you talking about

[slender night]

I'm honestly kind of waiting for the plot twist of "I watched a playthrough" like most people who argue about Eternal do

[supple river]

Can you prove otherwise? That the game was originally developed for the mouse, and only then ported to gamepads? I found old games and can distinguish when the game was originally developed under the mouse, and when under gamepads. If you play Serious Sam 1-2 Encounter and Next Encounter or SS2, you will see what controls each game was designed for. The same applies to Fear 1 and 2-3 or Crysis 1 or 2-3. Just play Quake 3 or UT2004 to remember what real mouse control is, and not this modern vestige.

[cyan lotus]

that’s not how logic works roger, just because I don’t have current proof doesn’t mean you’re correct by default

[supple river]

You also dont have proof, its how religion works.

Okay, there are too many of you, and my limit of arguments on the Internet is over for today. So I'll take a break.

[cyan lotus]

whatever you’re on about anywho

[unreal terrace]

since when does whether doom is easy to learn or not have ANY relation to religion

[cyan lotus]

and the difference is I wasn’t the one slinging around baseless claims

[sharp moat]

gonna be real, why the fudge do i care that a game was made for controller or m&kb

[honest vortex]

TIL that labyrinths and secrets aren't like Classic DOOM due to his criticisms of Legacy of Rust /s

[sharp moat]

He’s 10 and learned what an atheist is.

[cyan lotus]

talking in this server feels like being a nurse in a looney bin

[honest vortex]

Russian videos. Really?

[sharp moat]

I pop in here in a blue moon and wish i didnt

[cyan lotus]

there’s like a handful of people here who could qualify as competent

[unreal terrace]

fair enough lmao

[sharp moat]

so you think Doom Guy is a 9mm or .45 kind of guy

personally he doesn’t come off as a Glock guy

[unreal terrace]

whatever size bullets the demons decide to eat as their main diet

[sharp moat]

well he’s def a gun nerd like us lads, the way he hangs em on his wall near his pc setup

A man of culture i may add

[honest vortex]

I just read this right now.

Idk man I thought Legacy of Rust was great.

[sharp moat]

Doom 1&2 level design is like Night and Day

Romero did cook with Quake

[honest vortex]

Well yeah. Legacy of Rust is a lot newer.

It's not 1993/1994 anymore

[sharp moat]

no i mean i hate doom 2 level design

[unreal terrace]

SHOCK

[honest vortex]

I liked it save for a few levels

[sharp moat]

So idk why he’s goin on about “gameplay only”

[sharp moat]

my brother in christ Doom 1993 and Doom 2 level design are like 2 different breeds

doom 2 isnt bad by any means but Romero had some sort of formula he didnt follow with the sequal

[prime sentinel]

Disagree, all of Romero’s Doom 2 maps rule, what few of them he made

Let’s see, circle of death, tenements, abandoned mines, industrial zone, the living end

I think those are all of his, I don’t think I missed one

All of those rock, in doom 2 Romero was more interested in death match esque layouts, which made all the maps more interconnected and conceptual

I won’t say I think it’s better than doom 1 e1 but for what I think, it is at least as good

[honest vortex]

Gotcha!

[prime sentinel]

Whoops! Forgot one

I love gotcha, feels like Romero trying to make a sandy map

It’s very strange and disconnected, not in line with romero’s other doom 2 submissions

I love all the jumps you do in it, something you would never see in doom 1

[astral fossil]

Absolutely in love with Doom 2 maps and Sandys maps in particular. Sad to see them getting bashing from "real Doom fans" from time to time.

[prime sentinel]

Yeah, doom 2 is great

I think the sandy hate must have been started by someone on YouTube or something and just became “conventional wisdom” for no reason

The only map besides the secret ones in doom 2 I really don’t care for is bloodfalls, I’ve always just found it kind of boring

[honest vortex]

I don't know why people think 1993 was so much more consistent.

Episode 2 and 3 , and even parts of E4 had some maps worse than anything in D2.

Episode 1 is the only real consistent episode

[prime sentinel]

I appreciate all of it, 3D level design was in its infancy

Romero had a really strong grasp on it immediately, the Tom hall maps sandy finished in e2 are very dungeon crawl-y, it’s a different type of map

[honest vortex]

People just hate on DOOM II for the sake of hating on it for some reason

[prime sentinel]

E3 is basically the sandy perersen experiment zone

[astral fossil]

But the music choice for it was on point and it had an atmosphere

[honest vortex]

E2 was mostly Tom Hall I believe.

Tom Hall is what people think Sandy Petersen map design is.

[prime sentinel]

Most of the maps were started by hall and finished by Petersen

[honest vortex]

Interesting

[prime sentinel]

M5 and M6 are both just Petersen however

[honest vortex]

People forget how much Sandy Petersen was on Doom 1993.

So it's funny how people praise 1993 for the lack of Sandy, but bash DII for having him

[prime sentinel]

M8 and M9 as well

[prime sentinel]

Sandy made/worked on more maps than Romero by far

So e2m5, 6, 8, and 9 are all only sandy and the rest are Tom hall maps sandy finished

And he did all of e3 obviously

[astral fossil]

I simply love Doom franchise and I can't compare it with words like "better" or "worse" as it is not something that is objective to me. Back in 1998 or around that time my fathers PC had Doom 1 shareware and full Doom 2. We played them together. Both of us didn't know any english back then (we were asking my mother to translate) and always thought that this first episode of Doom is the full game while Doom 2 had 32 maps and an SSG with Archvile. So I was playing Doom 2 most of the times and I really grew fond of it. Nowadays I just love these games for what they are and they all have a special place in my heart.

[prime sentinel]

And 14 or 16 maps in doom 2, I forget the exact number

[prime sentinel]

I agree both are great games

Doom’s mainline entries are all excellent imo

[honest vortex]

Exactly

[prime sentinel]

I think Romero deserves a lot of credit for how perfect e1 is at introducing you to doom, and his doom 2 work is amazing, but sandy was pretty much the workhorse, his work is integral to doom

[honest vortex]

Yeah I even like Doom 3, especially the expansions.

Also DOOM 3 isn't even my least favorite. Resurrection of Evil is awesome

[prime sentinel]

Doom 3 is great

It probably is my least favorite personally, but I really like it still

[honest vortex]

Best depiction of Hell in the series imo

[prime sentinel]

For sure

I actually really like doom 2’s weird abstract brown and green hell hehe

[honest vortex]

Main game wise, D3 might be my least favorite, but Resurrection of Evil grown to be maybe in the middle of upper favorites, not sure

I liked RoE more than the main campaign admittedly

[prime sentinel]

Resurrection is cool, I don’t really like the hell section as much as base game

It feels like a retread

[honest vortex]

Yeah, Hell is worse.

Lost Mission was best Hell.

[prime sentinel]

Also the final boss kinda sucks lol

It looks really neat but I didn’t like the fight itself

[honest vortex]

Petersen led to Spirit World. One of the greatest levels ever

If I remember right, The Spirit World was John Romero's favorite level from the first two DOOM games

[prime sentinel]

Eh not one of my favorites personally, I like suburbs more

But it’s all down to preference

The throne room is really cute though 🙂

[honest vortex]

Suburbs is peak!

[dense gazelle]

Egg boy are u checking dooms reddit?

You guys watched Aervosas newest analysis video?

[prime sentinel]

no

I don't really browse reddit

or watch doom tubers

I'll check it out if its about dark ages

thanks for the pointer

[dense gazelle]

Interesting with the flag and the 3 symbols on it, middle the mark of the slayer

[prime sentinel]

I'll prolly be lost when it comes to the lore haha

[terse basin]

modern lore: something really long. Classic Lore: they kil my rabit now i comit genocide

lol

[unborn kettle]

exactly

everyone got used to futuristic marine shit

so maybe not everyone is all for
the Medieval Marine stuff

[covert crow]

Tfw you wanna say something because you like the discussion but you have nothing to add

[tribal lagoon]

“No gameplay there” you no nothing about game design and it shows. Eternal and especially Ultrakill are crafted specifically to fit there original loops. In ultrakill every weapon is designed to be used alongside other weapons you have to be constantly swapping weapons to get the most out of the game. There isn’t any “long lost design” Eternal and Ultrakill just play in the way that benefits there gameplay loops

[prime sentinel]

I mean to be fair he is barely a “space marine” in eternal, he’s like a super hero that uses guns

There’s still gonna be futuristic stuff in the dark ages

Plasma guns, space bases, etc

[agile osprey]

Was there not a big ass spaceship that launched him out of a cannon titanfall style

[ebon shale]

Not really a spaceship more like a skyship

[limpid ridge]

You guys like the graphics of the upcoming 2025 game

Imo their pretty damn good

[tribal lagoon]

Looks like there going back to a grittier tone which I’m all for

[limpid ridge]

2016 type shit I love it

:3

[nocturne agate]

Are you all there mate

[hard thistle]

@limpid ridge yes I do. O love the game and haven't got to play it yet.

[remote thunder]

idtech 5 and 6 having tons of texture pop-in has nothing to do with gamepads and everything to do with megatexture being a dogshit technology, check your facts

in fact, megatexture was originally developed for idtech 4 and therefore doom 3, which was decisively not a console title on launch

[remote thunder]

this is simply bad reasoning, learning enough about a boss to beat it never means you've mastered it

beating a dark souls boss hitless (= no damage taken + no blocking) which seems like another step on the "hard to learn, easy to master" progression tree still doesn't require true mastery, i've done this for several bosses in fromsoft's lineup and i can't say i really understand any of them fully

beating a boss only requires you to get good enough at it to kill it before it kills you, the bare minimum

you could have 1 hp after a successful attempt and that would still meet the bare minimum

your reward for using your eyes and brain and learning what the boss does is that the initial, seemingly impossible difficulty is lowered to a manageable, if not easy level

you just seem to have a bias against a style of video game design that's been proven MASSIVELY successful, fromsoft's been selling the same combat system with gradual changes for 15 years now and it still prints them money

a higher skill floor than what you're used to is not "artificial difficulty", you can't even type a single sentence without deferring any real form of argumentation to buzzwords

any game you can name will, with enough time, fall victim to this "flaw" you've found in "le woke modern slop"

watch any professional do the thing they're a professional at and it'll seem easy

this is simply terrible and dishonest argumentation

why is it bad game design for these "macros" to make doom eternal easy, but good game design for "tactics" to make another game easy?

one involves using your hands, the other involves using your brain, but you've fooled yourself into believing in an illusion of choice

the conclusion is still the same, get good at thing = thing is easy now

is the unspoken implication here that using your brain is somehow harder and more sophisticated than executing a series of inputs with your hands?

are these "tactics" not just macros of the mind?

a series of decisions formed by pattern recognition and logical reasoning

which can be repeated once one has been formed for a given situation

just like pressing buttons in a certain sequence

[flat geode]

will this game be on ps4?

or new gen consoles only

[hard thistle]

I'm guessing new consoles. Get a PC.

[flat geode]

i’d rather buy a ps5

PC is too complicated I like the simple way

[hard thistle]

I push big button to turn on PC.It boots up and steam automatically starts. I pick a game click play.it starts up and I play for hours.I usually play 99% single player games .

[wheat sigil]

A pc can be just as simple as a ps5

[slender night]

Not really, no

I mean, yes, it can, but it most of the time isn't

[flat geode]

the building is complicated imo since I have 0 experience with anything like it, and the price is at least 1k+ including monitor and keyboard mouse etc.

[wheat sigil]

yeah, pc is more expensive, but you dont have to build it yourself

[flat geode]

yea I am a teen that saves up pocket money to buy electronic stuff so my budget won’t make it 😅

[wheat sigil]

understandable

[wheat cliff]

no?
you could just buy a pre built one

[flat geode]

still tho

[flat geode]

.

[wheat cliff]

I learned how to build one myself and then took a few classes revolving much more into hardware stuff, it really isn't hard learning how to build one but it's fair, if it seems complicated it's scary to try

[wheat cliff]

yeah I am too lol, buying a PC with lunch money 😔

very slow process

[flat geode]

IKR

[flat geode]

yea I am just more into simply buying it, and all my friends play on ps too so yea

[wheat cliff]

okay then that excuses it more lol, simply have fun with the homies :>

[faint flame]

Ik it may seem like that but trust me get PC

[empty furnace]

pc gamers gotta build their gaming setup?

[empty furnace]

prebuilt if you don’t wanna waste time

me? i use a laptop (it works)

[silver oriole]

Smart fridge clears

[faint flame]

Fr

[plucky plinth]

Only if they really want to like me.

Prebuilts exist but their quality isn’t guaranteed

And I’m not including the research needed for selecting peripherals like monitors

Anyways, how y’all feel on the lever action SSG?

I personally frigging love it

[empty furnace]

microwave:

[silver oriole]

Its awesome

Imagine if we get to dual wield

[plucky plinth]

I doubt it but it’d be cool as hell

[mossy pelican]

I don’t know if it’s been mentioned already, but Bethesda has been confirmed to be at the Tokyo Game Show from 9/26 until 9/29.
On paper, this could be a good time to see more of TDA since there’s not much else to announce aside from Indiana Jones.

However, there’s no hard confirmation of a new trailer let alone a gameplay showcase.

[warm ibex]

Are you by any chance the same Man of Doom from Doomworld?

[mossy pelican]

Yep

[warm ibex]

Really liking the project man!

[prime sentinel]

Has Bethesda been known to do new trailers at Tokyo game show?

They might just be there to show off Indiana jones like you said but it would be really nice to see more doom

[grim cloud]

i dont think we will see anyting at TGS.

[flat geode]

why tho… there is a minor performance diff for a lot higher price, only thing good abt it is terraria mods ( mods generally but I need them terraria mods ) and the whole library of steam overall

[prime sentinel]

If you just want to play games console is better, but pcs do a lot more than play games, so it’s really about what your needs are

[flat geode]

I don’t really need the other things a pc can do, I only need it for games, so I look forward to a console way more

[prime sentinel]

Then I would say get a console

[nocturne agate]

I kinda want a pc now

After just not wanting them my whole life

[grim cloud]

well depending on how much you want to spend, if your going big wait till the new 5k series

I am getting a new PC just for TDA, much like i did for Eternal and 2016.

[plucky plinth]

I'd say PCs can give a higher performance difference at times, but I get what you mean

your needs are no way aligned to want a PC

I will mention a serviceable PC isn't as much as people say they are. You don't need to drop 3k on a computer to play basic games.

[flat geode]

alr, I’ll buy a pc fs if I work some job that requires u to work on a pc/laptop

[flat geode]

yea, i’d really just rather buy a steam deck

[plucky plinth]

fair enough

I personally do a ton of stuff plus heavy gaming so I spend a ton on my rig

[wheat cliff]

believe me a PC is more worth it

[flat geode]

it may be, not currently tho

[mossy pelican]

Yo, thank you so much for the shout-outs and I can’t wait to show you what we’ve got planned next!

[warm ibex]

No problem at all, I've enjoyed talking about it! The art looks spectacular and the overall theme is very interesting, can't wait to see what comes next

[grim cloud]

The OG leak "Doom year Zero" mentions two DLC"s. Think that still applies? I wonder

[winter idol]

i could see them doing dlc

[scenic lichen]

i had a thought of dark ages ending with doomguy being sealed away but they could possibly leave the dlc for that

[grim cloud]

well if the game starts with the first age, first battle, like Hugo said, we have centuries before that happens, maybe even eons

[hard thistle]

So they can milk this franchise forever, doom truly is eternal

I don't mind as long as it's fun!

[grim cloud]

if the cow is fat, keep on milking

[urban valve]

HOW YOU GET THE CLASSIC DOOMGUY SKIN

[lusty shale]

Tbh if it's done right i don't mind them milking it, as long as it doesn't became something like call of duty

[urban valve]

Can someone tell me pls

[agile osprey]

In doom eternal?

[urban valve]

Yes

[unreal terrace]

You unlock it in the fortress with the batteries

[agile osprey]

Its in the fortress of doom, use sentinel batteries to unlock it

[urban valve]

Oh

[agile osprey]

Yea

[urban valve]

Where do you put it

[unreal terrace]

you can see it through some glass

[agile osprey]

Go towards the back of the fortress, there will be slots to put the batteries in (it will require 2)

[urban valve]

Ok

Thanks man

[hard thistle]

Yeah eventually they should probably give their other ips some attention, idk if id wants to be known as just "the doom company" forever

[urban valve]

Doom is the the best FPS I’m hyped for dark ages

[grim cloud]

ill take doom till i die. Gimme gimme

But i hope we get a new Quake.

Machinegames may or may not be working on a new Quake. But honestly they need to finish Wolf 3 first

[hard thistle]

They're probably gonna reboot again lmao

[grim cloud]

they still need ot finish the planned trilogy with mecha hitler.

[hard thistle]

The thing with quake is it's not as big as doom so that probably factored into them doing dark ages instead

[hard thistle]

With how youngblood was received I don't think it'll happen

[slender night]

Wikipedia says Wolf III is happening

Am I sure to trust it? Ehh. But it's a thing

"The studio is developing Indiana Jones and the Great Circle (2024) as well as another Wolfenstein game."

[safe ice]

honestly when I see the trailer now I just think "man this couldve been a quake game"

like theg got everything that made quake 1 what it is almost perfectly and its a doom game

[dense gazelle]

Tbh a new quake I would prefer

Either the strogg or lovecraftian story

I even liked enemy territory cuz of playing as strogg

[tribal lagoon]

Hope Dark Ages has its own At Dooms Gate remix for its opening cinematic like 2016 and Eternal

[tribal lagoon]

If they brought back Quake id rather lovecraft over the Strogg the Strogg aren’t very interesting

[nocturne agate]

Me 2

[hard thistle]

Wikipedia bro lol

Unless bethesda or machine games says anything about it I'm not gonna hold my breath

[cyan lotus]

Id software and Wikipedia are words that are quite the dichotomy, doom wiki is basically full of lore that was made up and actively perpetuates people spreading said misinformation as if it were undeniable truth

[outer ibex]

My brain also thought quake immediately when I saw the trailer lol

[slow nexus]

Hey guys, the 26 of this month xbox is doing an event and in this event is participating bethesda, u guys think there will be dark ages trailer or gameplay?

[fathom yacht]

Maybe

Hopefully

[prime sentinel]

Probably a good chance

Like a showcase?

[winter idol]

I think its unlikely

i doubt they will show anything until early 2025 when xbox does another one of their main streams

[slender night]

#the-dark-ages message

[hard thistle]

I know but still I'd never use that as a basis for anything

[slender night]

Yeah true, me neither. Just felt like adding it in to the conversation

[brave spoke]

I was thinking, we probably wont see a normal bfg since that wouldnt really make sense

Do you guys think we will get a redesigned bfg-like weapon or a brand new super weapon in its place

[scenic lichen]

I’ll take another Unmaykr

[prime sentinel]

why wouldn't it? UAC is still around

[winter idol]

well we dont know that

[prime sentinel]

I mean, the space base where he's fighting the titan doesn't look like makyr architecture

it looks really similar to 2016/eternal UAC architecture

its also clearly mars

I guess it could be some other corporation? but its way more industrial and less fantastical than any of the other factions in nu doom

also the plasma gun is back (well its called the accelerator now), so I see no reason why the BFG couldn't also return

[winter idol]

it looks like sentinel architecture, the tops of the buildings have spikes similar to all other sentinel buildings

[prime sentinel]

isn't sentinel architecture a lot less high tech? I thought generally their aesthetic is more gothic

with bricks and chains and stuff

the giant metal girders and giant drums look more UAC to me

I see spikes kinda on a building way in the background, but I kinda think those are just a detail for that building, not seeing them anywhere else

big laser structure in the background looks a lot like something you might see on the phobos base in Eternal

thought the first area in the trailer looked much more sentinel than anything else, but idk there's no UAC logo anywhere in the trailer so maybe they aren't around

[winter idol]

yea, and currently all the weapons shown are not from the uac

also sentinel architecture is varied, but it is rather high tech as seen by the atlan factory in the trailer

[prime sentinel]

idk the atlan factory still has features I associate with the Sentinels

with the giant chains and wood and stuff

[winter idol]

guess we will find out but idk how the uac would exist thousands of years in the past

[prime sentinel]

does the lore ever state when the UAC came into being?

could also be cross dimensional shenanigans

[winter idol]

that would be messy

[prime sentinel]

have the nu doom games ever head lore that wasn't

[winter idol]

it looks alot like uac but i dont think it is

[prime sentinel]

also, I'm not convinced the accelerator isn't UAC design, it just looks like a human-made weapon

[winter idol]

its not

it has sentinel writing on the side

[prime sentinel]

it does?

[winter idol]

yea

[prime sentinel]

I can't find it, is there like a piece of art of just the gun around?

[prime sentinel]

thanks!

I probably just assumed it was scratches or something but yeah that's clearly writing

would just be weird to me to do a doom game without the UAC but its possible

[winter idol]

they are definitly trying to break from typical doom game stuff

even eternal really only had 1 uac level in its base campaign

[prime sentinel]

kinda funny if you consider them saying the gameplay is a throwback

[winter idol]

we probably wont even see the chaingun in game

considering the accelerator fits that role

[prime sentinel]

apparently the mech wields one

the Atlan, rather

[winter idol]

yea but considering that in base slayer mode you always have a shield, its kind of impossible to hold a 2 handed chaingun

[prime sentinel]

right, I agree

all the weapons are one handed, seemingly

because of the shield

[winter idol]

having a shield at all times is something I thought about back in 2020 so it was kind of jarring to see them actually come up with the same idea

[prime sentinel]

its interesting that they decided to combine it with a chainsaw

I imagine this means it has to be used for ammo harvesting or something

[winter idol]

although it seems it wont be the source of ammo considering they said the 3 melee weapons would be the source of resouces

[prime sentinel]

oh yeah

[winter idol]

although that may change later in development

[prime sentinel]

maybe one of the melee weapons fills your chainshield meter

and the chainshield gets ammo

there's health, armor, ammo, and chainshield meter

oh also apparently there's this chain lightning move, no idea how that's gonna work

its use might be for stunning hordes since we know there will be many more on screen demons at a time

[winter idol]

i just hope combat dosnt get too bloated

heard theres 3 shotguns

[prime sentinel]

3?

[winter idol]

SSG, combat, and a double barrel plasma one

although the people in the show could have mistaken the plasma double barrel for an accelerator mod

[hard thistle]

If it's a UAC base there are some possibilities.

1. It's an alternate Mars, like Doom 1993's or Doom 3's. By this point in the timeline, Doomguy has been to both.
2. Time travel shenanigans, which I don't want, but wouldn't be surprised to see in a Doom game somehow.

[prime sentinel]

I assumed the double barrel plasma gun was an upgrade to the accelerator

maybe in this game guns are just upgraded instead of having mods

[winter idol]

seeing them rewrite modern (2016, eternal) history would be weird but interesting, doubtful but an interesting concept

[prime sentinel]

they mentioned "streamlining"

[hard thistle]

It simply cannot be a base from the modern UAC without time travel shit. If there isn't anything like that, then it's either an alternate UAC or it's just a Sentinel facility that happens to look different.

[prime sentinel]

perhaps there aren't mods, just upgrades

[winter idol]

i would prefer 1 very good mod over 2 mediocre ones

plasma mods in eternal are vomit

[prime sentinel]

why would a double barrel plasma gun be worse than the default accelerator?

likewise, the double barrel could simply be an upgrade for the single barrel

[hard thistle]

Which, TBF, is very likely. Not all Sentinel shit has to look like it's gothic medieval shit. It's possible they keep this kind of design for civilian/warrior design, and that the facility we see in the trailer is some kind of manufacturing plant.

(Which we know the Argenta have, because the 2016 Praetor suit has serial numbers and corpshit on it.)

[winter idol]

even if the 2016 suit was a prototype that the devs had to go with cause of marketing

[prime sentinel]

it just looks sooo UAC maybe the UAC ripped off the sentinels?

[winter idol]

well considering how they retconned samuels character from 2016 to be the seraphim, its possible

[hard thistle]

In any case it was canonized; it's made of Sentinel materials and was forged in Hell.

[hard thistle]

The problem with this is that logically the UAC should not be present in The Dark Ages in any capacity. From Doomguy's perspective, the UAC we see in 2016 will not exist for several million years.

This shit is primordial. Over on Earth, while The Dark Ages is happening, dinosaurs and giant insects are roaming the land and humans aren't populating the planet yet.

[prime sentinel]

well what I mean is perhaps this is sentinel architecture, but the UAC that appears millions of years later used sentinel tech

[agile osprey]

Where does it look like the uac ripped off sentinel tech again

The praetor suit?

[hard thistle]

Ohhh. Well yeah, this is actually already canon to a degree.

[prime sentinel]

ok, I'm not a lore meister, this makes it make way more sense to me

[hard thistle]

Samuel Hayden's Argent Tower is canonically a ripoff of the Nekravol Citadel. Samuel based it on the designs of the Nekravol Citadel that Sentinel slaves built.

[prime sentinel]

if it looks like the UAC because the UAC would go on to base their designs on it then that would make sense

[hard thistle]

2016 mentions it being based on ancient designs they found in Hell, and Eternal, y'know, retcons him to have actually been there when it was made.

[agile osprey]

Thats funny considering its just a big ass tower with a beam going through the middle

Man now I want to play d2016

[hard thistle]

It's moreso the delivery system. The Nekravol Citadel collects materials, purifies it into Argent Energy, packages it, then sends it to Urdak.
The Argent Tower does this exact same thing, except it's sending the materials to Earth.

Mainly the GEDM.

[agile osprey]

You think he could get into legal trouble for copying the design

That would be so silly

[hard thistle]

The discussion is mainly over TDA's trailer. In the scene where we fight a Titan in a mech, we are on a landscape that looks like Mars and seems to feature a techbase that looks distinctly not Argenta.

The glimpses we see look UAC-like in design, which is weird since the UAC should not exist yet. (At least, 2016's UAC.)

So possible explanations are that it's an Argenta base that just looks different, or time travel is involved and Doomguy goes to the future, or it's the original/Doom 3 Mars and thus an alternate UAC base.

[agile osprey]

A ton of these just look like more modernized sentinel tech in terms of architecture

I honestly dont think it looks that different

It could be different 'cultures' of tech, for a lack of a better term

[prime sentinel]

the very square with beveled corners reads as destinctly UAC-esque

and the giant girders and stuff

[agile osprey]

I doubt the UAC would be shooting doomguy out of a cannon helldivers style if that was the case

[prime sentinel]

no not that ship, that's obviously makyr design

I don't think you understand what exactly we're talking about

its one particular scene on mars

stands out among the other parts of the trailer

[agile osprey]

Oh like around that mech scene?

[prime sentinel]

yes

its the shot where he punches the titan

[agile osprey]

It could be something like how in de once you get to exultia you go through a portal to hell

The building does look very uac-like though

[prime sentinel]

yeah its very different from every other environment in the trailer

[agile osprey]

That tower with the ring in the top left looks more sentinel to me

[prime sentinel]

I thought doom eternal really strongly gave each of the factions a distinct architectural style that was easy to read and know exactly who made what

[agile osprey]

We could just be missing something

[prime sentinel]

very likely considering we have so little to go on haha

[slow nexus]

Hmmmm maybe, but i have hopes

Maybe the third trailer have a release date? Or the second?

[placid saffron]

Assuming same dimension

i didn't read the next comment yet

[winter idol]

impossible to tell right now, wouldnt expect a date until a more in depth look at the game during a bigger show

[slow nexus]

Oooh ok

[covert crow]

I hope you will be able to do backflips in this game

(In the atlan mechs)

It would be so awesome

[grim cloud]

i still think we will get a tease of some sort at TGA, no real gameplay until the next xbox direct. release date announced at summer showcase if i was a betting man

[tribal lagoon]

Probably yeah. I don’t think the game will actually come out till late 2025

[summer summit]

And no news whether The Dark Ages will have multiplayer or not. If not, then it will be the first Doom game since Doom 64 that doesn't have any sort of multiplayer mode.

[grim cloud]

I dont think we got MP information for Eternal quite a bit after it was shown gameplay. I am sure there will be some form of MP for TDA

If i had to guess, some sort of COOP Horde and/or Team deathmatch mixed inm (sentinel versus marauder loyalist)

Fans been asking for horde coop since Doom 2016

[north grove]

Fans have also been asking for a game breaking bug fix for the first mission of DOOM Eternal The Ancient Gods Part 2.

[warm ibex]

yeah, the first battlemode info dropped during the E3 2019 showcase

[prime sentinel]

would love co op

for the campaign preferably, horde mode would be neat too

[grim cloud]

Issue with camp coop, is that the entire game needs to be built around that, and that can lead to issues.

i would rather see specific arena's and areas for coop

[prime sentinel]

trying to imagine deathmatch is a bit hard, it would be unlike pretty much any other deathmatch

[grim cloud]

Not saying it can't be done

[prime sentinel]

because this game doesn't seem to share much in common with quake

like, 2016 kinda sorta has this quake feel so deathmatch wasn't hard to imagine

[grim cloud]

people stilkl want good ole DM in doom. They missed the mark with 2016

nobody wanted loadouts - which was the main issue since the early alpha test. They didnt take that feedback to heart

[prime sentinel]

yeah but this game is so different from anything else, even if its inspired by doom 1993

most deathmatch maps in arena shooters are hyper vertical, but this game is way more horizontal

so its a bit hard to imagine would deathmatch might even look like

we'll have to wait and see, but honestly, I could see them trying something like battlemode again tbh, I know people don't want to hear that

or at least people that want traditional deathmatch

[grim cloud]

my vision for MP is massive, probably not realistic but it would be awesome

teamplay, marauders versus sentinals, but on a battlefield full of demons each side has to deal with AND perhaps even player demonic invasions.

[prime sentinel]

damn so they gotta make a whole other game lol

[grim cloud]

lol yes

[prime sentinel]

iirc in 2016 MP and Snapmap were both developed by other studios outside of Id, and they were responsible mainly for the campaign

[grim cloud]

think of it like a FPS/DOTA mix

[prime sentinel]

so like... not traditional deathmatch at all haha

[grim cloud]

yah, i want DM too, i want invasions, i want it all

[prime sentinel]

I gotta wonder if they'll even do MP or just focus on SP and extra modes for it

I think the thing that makes the most sense is COOP

wouldn't have to deal with how two people with slayer powers would fight eachother

maybe players could invade co op games?

and that could be the PVP element

[grim cloud]

i htink at the very least, they should bring back the 2016/Eternal MP maps into TDA so players can at least play them from one install. Might be a few more dozens of gigs, but i think people would go back to it

[grim cloud]

that would make things more dynamic and interesting

[prime sentinel]

I highly doubt that would happen

the way TDA looks, eternal and 2016 style maps wouldn't work

[grim cloud]

oh i doubt it itoo, but it would be nice

maps would be fine, its the code and textures that woudn't translate

[prime sentinel]

those maps are designed for high air mobility, which doesn't seem to be TDA's thing

[prime sentinel]

nah I mean the layouts would likely not be suited to dark ages' gameplay

[grim cloud]

yah you could be right, need to see more gameplay to make a better guess

[prime sentinel]

from what we know this game is much more grounded

[grim cloud]

Stand and Fight is the moto

[prime sentinel]

right, so I have a feeling those super vertical layouts won't work so well

if you look at all the gameplay so far, its much more horizontal, with lots of slow moving projectiles and strafing

[grim cloud]

well, still though, you would be playing the UAC soldiers anways, not the actual slayer in these maps.

sounds like the doom 2016 imps would fuck up the TDA slayer

[prime sentinel]

nah because he's got a shield

[grim cloud]

true but he wont be dodging that as easiliy since TDA projectiles are much slower

projectile dodging mazes will be a part of game

[prime sentinel]

people who saw the private footage mentioned this mechanic where you basically jump to your shield, which makes me wonder if that's how vertical movement works, perhaps your jump is very, very tiny or even non existence, but traversal is tied to throwing your shield at set points and jumping to them

the slayer homing attack...

[grim cloud]

i saw taht footage, i dont remember that honestly but i dont doubt it

[prime sentinel]

aaaah I wanna see more so bad, I want to know how it works

[grim cloud]

i was jsut too in awe and very hung over

[prime sentinel]

hahaha

wish I was there, I'm gonna try to go next year

[grim cloud]

just now i remembered seeing a armored like hellknight character. It might of been a aggadon, but it was smaller and the slayer was using different weapons to peel his armor off like a onion

[prime sentinel]

is it like the one in the trailer?

[grim cloud]

that makes me think we will see both naked and armored versions of demons. but once again, hung over

[grim cloud]

yah, but it looked more like a hellknight or armored baron form Eternal

[prime sentinel]

ah I see, maybe its the new baron design? we don't see a baron in the trailer

the HUD face is really exciting to me haha

[grim cloud]

i dont remember the hud face, just wanted to look at all the demons. There was a vore/vagary type demon among the arachnotrons and arachorbs

i also tink the new hell soldiers are much closer to this guy

ugh can't post pics, well there goes that

[prime sentinel]

RIP

[grim cloud]

#eternal-modding message

there

[prime sentinel]

I see, yeah I think we see something like that in the trailer, when he's shredding those dudes with the skull crusher

[grim cloud]

some also carried glowing shields, and others had helmets and armor

mabye even different melee weapons but i can't confirm that

[prime sentinel]

ah, it would make sense that stripping the armor gives the player armor

so I kinda think your idea that demons can have armor might be true

[grim cloud]

immoran style armor, black horns, i wish to see the gameplay demo again

if i could take a few hours to meditate i might get more out of my brain

No cacodemons could be seen however. I hope there is a purple variant

[prime sentinel]

lol

[hard thistle]

I could've actually afforded to go to quakecon this year but didn't, sad!

[dense gazelle]

Still wonder how they picked those people to see it. Do you have to look like the Über nerd?

[ebon shale]

💀 what is this ragebait. The ones attending are generally speaking some of the most passionate id Software fans, thats why they got to see it.

[dense gazelle]

Just asking cuz such things never happen in Germany you know

I have several doom artworks in my skin, does this count as passionate?

[tribal lagoon]

QuakeCon happens in Texas so that’s a big contributor to why it’s never happened in Germany yknow?

[ebon shale]

You could also show your passion by buying a flight to texas instead of getting tattoos

[tribal lagoon]

I mean watching it online and buying merch and stuff is already a pretty good way to show passion

Plane tickets can be pricey according to Google it’s like over $500 to get a ticket from Germany to Texas

[cyan lotus]

it’s almost like quakecon takes place in Texas because the United States is so notorious that it’s currency is the standard across the majority of the world, and the fact that Texas has the second biggest gdp out of all the US states, being more than half of Germanys, and the fact that due to the whole British colonization thing that happened in history, going to a place where pretty much all of the audience is going to have one colloquially agreed upon widespread language ( English ) just kind of makes sense

[tribal lagoon]

From Munich to Texas it’s $572

[tribal lagoon]

QuakeCon is in Texas because id Software is in Texas im not sure what you mean by your comment

[cyan lotus]

I’m saying that even without that prior knowledge, I’m saying it’s a hotspot for that kind of stuff to happen

[tribal lagoon]

Ahhhh I see what your saying now

[ebon shale]

Okay then why is gamescom in germany?

Shouldnt it be in texas as well

[cyan lotus]

idk, people can do what they want, but I’m just saying that there is quite a rational explanation for why their event would be relegated to Texas

[tribal lagoon]

Gamescom was started in Germany im pretty sure that’s why

[ebon shale]

Yeah thats the point of my argument. Things just are where they are

It aint that deep

[cyan lotus]

probably not

I Can admit i was probably being a bit overanalytical

[dense gazelle]

Generally speaking of such secret shown videos I wonder who they choose and who not

[tribal lagoon]

Hopefully the rest of us get to see some more videos cause id love to see a gameplay video

Need to know more about the new arsenal

[cyan lotus]

I know some of the fellows who saw it, but honestly it would never do as much justice as having seen it with your own eyes

[tribal lagoon]

That bone shredder gun looks interesting I wonder if weapon mods are coming back

I hope so

Like instead of mod bots they’d be like medieval Night Sentinel mini forges or something

Go full in on that medieval castle feeling

[dense gazelle]

Well at Gamescom they had the slayer statue

Wasn't in Texas 😝

[tribal lagoon]

that sounds pretty cool

[dense gazelle]

I made lifetime memories with it

[cyan lotus]

my god speaking of mod bots I wish if there is a mod system around this time they actually do more than give the illusion of choice and actually try to make a smaller portion of the arsenal be relegated to suboptimal slop

[prime sentinel]

if you were at quakecon, you could see it

it wasn't shown to specific people, it was shown on stage

all you had to do was go to quakecon and be there that day

they did not choose anyone

[tribal lagoon]

Like make each mod more integral to the gameplay orrrrrrr? I just hope if there is a mod bot equivalent Doomguy doesn’t punch it for no reason lmao

[dense gazelle]

Thought it was behind closed doors for only a bunch of ppl

[prime sentinel]

it was behind closed doors in that the public does not have access to it

it was shown to the people that were there that day and them alone

[dense gazelle]

Was the video played more than once?

[prime sentinel]

not as far as I know

[cyan lotus]

integral? no, nothing should be integral about it, just for the love of god have most of the arsenal be relevant at least

[prime sentinel]

someone from our team was there, he doesn't really play the new doom games, but he saw it and his thoughts were "looks neat"

[cyan lotus]

like there’s choices to be made, but there’s almost objectively wrong ones that will put you at an almost crippling disadvantage if so chosen

[dense gazelle]

Sounds unimpressive

[prime sentinel]

I mean, if you're not into nu doom then how do you react to it lol

[cyan lotus]

some basic stuff I can paraphrase about the dark ages from what I’ve heard ( put in spoilers just in case )
||-part where there was this weird “puzzle” gap crossed by throwing shield and grappling onto it
-glory kills are no longer locked animations
-plasma rifle is double barreled and was stated to “look like BFG but blue”
-3 melee weapons, a mace, a flail, and a “pointy club” resembling the unmaykrs color palette, each of them having upgrade paths
-mech gameplay is primarily melee based
-physics system has apparently been reworked||
this is all like weird paraphrasing of a string of messages from one guy in particular so take whatever’s here with a grain of salt

[dense gazelle]

Maybe it's like showing somebody your favorite brutal death metal band and they are into Taylor swift?

The one new melee weapon u mention is new to me

Will the new dismemberment system be as good as dead island 2?

[prime sentinel]

seems accurate to other recounts I've heard

the "puzzle" gap thing to me kinda makes me think platforming is out

with the shield being used to access areas you would normally just double jump to

hugo said this game will be more exploration based and open (though still being level based, not open world)

a lot of what I've heard has me incredibly intrigued and excited, I can defintiely feel this sense of wanting to include more elements of the classic games, such as the more open level design

talking in circles at this point, god we need new footage

[cyan lotus]

I’m fine with doom eternal

I honestly thought that the proposition of a new game was so unnecessary that when rumors of dark ages and such emerged I didn’t have a shred of belief in it until the day the trailer came out

I was thinking there’s no way they’d make a new one

[prime sentinel]

I love doom eternal, this being so different is what makes it interesting to me

[cyan lotus]

that is an odd contradiction you just made

[prime sentinel]

its not

doom eternal is great, but I'm excited by the prospect of something unique

[cyan lotus]

the implication that eternal was not a deviation from the formula, while dark ages would be, right after saying that they’re trying including elements of the classic games, returning to roots does not sound like an overarching deviation

[prime sentinel]

the dark ages is a deviation from eternal

its including and being influenced by classic elements, but it is clearly not just classic doom but with pretty graphics

I never said doom eternal was not a deviation from "the formula" whatever that is

doom 2016 started by trying to interpret classic doom in the present day, the resulting game was its own thing, this will be the same way

[cyan lotus]

like I understand the striking similarities behind 2016 and eternal, but to say eternal wasn’t necessarily “unique” is a bit disingenuous, they share the same metaphorical “skeleton” for lack of better words, yes they share a multitude of the same core concepts, but beyond that, the path they branch is way different

[prime sentinel]

uh I didn't say eternal wasn't unique

didn't mean to imply it, by saying I'm excited this is unique

what I meant is its unique from Eternal.

[cyan lotus]

I’m not trying to put you on the defense or anything I guess I just lack the correct wordage to get my point across, either that or I am misinterpreting this entirely

[prime sentinel]

Doom 2016 and Eternal are very different games, they share some elements and a lot of very basic concepts, Eternal takes things much further and focuses more on resource management. I'm not saying that I don't think Eternal is a worthwhile sequel or that I even remotely don't like it, its one of my favorite games.

what I'm saying is that if The Dark Ages were just a more refined Eternal I would probably not be as excited for it

[cyan lotus]

personally that would have never been my expectations for it

they’ve been continuously trying to revamp the gameplay of each title going forward regarding nudoom, and I think with the audience they are catering to, they couldn’t have just ramped things up in a straight forward way

[prime sentinel]

we only have 2 nu doom games

[cyan lotus]

yes but going off developer statements and the pattern that is so far being shown, it is not a ridiculous assumption for me to have made

like a hypothetical new doom game has been an idea slung around for a few years at this point

[prime sentinel]

prior to the announcement of Dark Ages I would not have expected another sequel so soon, or what to even expect from it

all I've been saying is that I'm excited for it and what its doing

[cyan lotus]

I never would’ve expected another sequel so soon either, but I am not exactly surprised they took this route

[prime sentinel]

well, I'm glad you foresaw this