streamchat

[river island]

Depends on the load size

[odd musk]

How much clothes do you think I have?

[vast idol]

too many

[odd musk]

all my clothes can fit into a single small suitcase that can fit in the carryon at an airport

and it's 95% black in color.

[river island]

If i got back to 98 lbs id probably have a years supply

[vast idol]

...i stand corrected, you do not have enough

[river island]

And all my weeb anime shirts

[odd musk]

98lbs seems a bit underweight but you could be short I dunno.

[river island]

Short and I popped out with a twin sis

[odd musk]

I have a lot of boots though. Though I want more. More boots. BOOOOOOTS

[river island]

I was tiny growing up lol

[vast idol]

and cats?

[odd musk]

I wish I was short. I just feel like I'm too tall sometimes.

Until I need to reach something on a high shelf then I am like "This must be the feeling the greek gods get when they show off their powers"

[quartz shell]

You should say this to Red.

[river island]

What I can't reach is dead to me

[odd musk]

Why? is Red incredibly short?

[river island]

She's a vtuber so

[quartz shell]

Incredibly smol

[river island]

Screen sized

[odd musk]

You can't reach any higher, but I can slav squat without hurting my knees or ankles and get really low to the floor. nothing is out of my reach

[river island]

But can you see why kids love the taste of cinnamon toast crunch

[vast idol]

anyway, fae, please make sure to tell thor to eat.

[odd musk]

am I not? I mean I have struggled with consistently and I haven't been on stream for some months now but I at least have an avatar that's setup for when I do stream.

[odd musk]

Thor gets a pass to eat all he wants today.

[quartz shell]

Give it time. My knees audibly crack.

[odd musk]

Because it has swirls of cinnamon sugar in every bite

[odd musk]

How old are you?

[quartz shell]

26. 

[vast idol]

oh i'm sorry

[odd musk]

I am literally 10 years older than you xD

[river island]

Older than me too

[quartz shell]

brb stealing your knees.

[river island]

When you hit 40 you should upgrade to queen

[vast idol]

oh sorry, thor already has them

[odd musk]

geeze how many knees does Thor have now?

[vast idol]

not enough clearly XD

[quartz shell]

Millipede levels.

[odd musk]

[vast idol]

someone is going to look at this, and make a cursed thor

[quartz shell]

Thor actually has the anatomy of Ko from Avatar the last Airbender.

That's what he doesn't want you to know. He does in fact have legs. But he has all of them.

What's your username?

[tribal bloom]

Put in a mod ticket then.
https://discord.com/channels/162034058736435201/1178193550060572672

[earnest spire]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1067823546266570812/1150092033944461492/attachment.gif

[odd musk]

BEHOLD THE TERRIBLE PHOTOSHOP JOB DONE IN MSPAINT

[minor nymph]

You got banned a year ago for chat-hopper shit.
It's been a year, don't be weird again, unbanned.

[brave schooner]

<@&1489742543662092439> @minor nymph

[odd musk]

Oh no, Thor had to come in here and see that.

[brave schooner]

jackwagon is a dumbass lol

[restive grotto]

I immediately timed him out

[dusky grove]

was it the same guy that just got unbanned?

[restive grotto]

Yeah

[dusky grove]

cuz if so, that's kinda sad

[restive grotto]

Idiots be idiots

[minor nymph]

Rebanned.
Dude immediately did it again after a year of waiting lol.

Damn man, get a hobby.

[tribal bloom]

I told him to file a mod ticket and he immediately asked if he needed 'mana' for it. That's a long time to keep up what was a dumb meme to begin with xD

[dusky grove]

we need to go back to the days of lords and ladies and have etiquette classes again

cuz my god some people need it

[tribal bloom]

At least when people knew etiquette, the insults were classier

[brave schooner]

they so were, just remember to tell the next jackwagon who cuts you off while driving that if he were any more inbred he'd be a sandwich, yeah?

[tribal bloom]

Shit like "I'd have a battle of wits with you, but I refuse to fight an unarmed opponent."
Instead of
"GET REKT NERRDRRRRDDDD" or whatever kids do now

[quartz shell]

I was sitting here like 'I know this is bait, but it's gonna be funny to see this idiot get called out'.

[restive grotto]

Nah... there were some AWFUL things that people did in that time.

[dusky grove]

IDK, there's some finesse in a good "GOTTEEEEEEEM"

[charred verge]

And?

[odd musk]

"I would engage in a friendly quibble had it not been for the fact that I am not particularly interested in battling someone who finds themselves unarmed and inexperienced."

[brave schooner]

I used this one all the time in junior high
wait that was meant for the unarmed opponent one but whatever lol

[tribal bloom]

xD

[brave schooner]

THE CONVERSATION CONTINUES! ...I really need to gtf back to work though, I have 30min to get at least 2 more files of datawork done.

[vast idol]

dear god

[marble stump]

"2 braincells fighting for 3rd place"

[river island]

Laughed

[twin nexus]

Shit's crazy.
https://fxtwitter.com/ChristinaTasty/status/2052842068465078617/video/1?s=46

Christina Tasty (@ChristinaTasty)

Explaining why I, personally, hate Mixtape in just under 3 minutes of totally uninterrupted "gameplay" (Spoilers):

**💬 1.9K 🔁 3.2K ❤️ 59.4K 👁️ 15.61M **

▶ Play video

FxTwitter · May 8, 2026, 8:04 PM

[dusky grove]

Look, i'm a fan of walking sims

And i'm a fan of linear stories

But even i can say that this is egregious

[jolly sky]

Yea, even walking sims are more than what Mixtape seems to be

[dusky grove]

How much is a movie ticket compared to the game?

Cuz that seems to be the common comparison

[jolly sky]

There's a particular Walking Sim I'm trying to recall

[gray fable]

Death stranding?

[jolly sky]

Nah that's not really a walking sim

[gray fable]

People used to call it that

[jolly sky]

People who are talking shit about Death Stranding call it that

Or to poke fun

[dusky grove]

Firewatch?

[jolly sky]

nah older than firewatch

Dear Esther

That's it

But even that has more game to it than everything from Mixtape I've seen

https://store.steampowered.com/app/520720/Dear_Esther_Landmark_Edition/

Dear Esther is closer to...a digital, walkable artpiece than it is a videogame, but it is still a videogame that you are in control of. Not everyone will get it, but just like a painting not everyone will understand its meaning.

[tribal bloom]

Some games are better classified as art pieces than entertainment, so you can't really hold them to the same standards.

[jolly sky]

Yea but what we're saying is the Mixtape seems like neither art or entertainment, or a game

[untold talon]

man it was hard to watch with that fps..

[tribal bloom]

Mixtape is basically an music video with extra steps

[jolly sky]

Hah that's a pretty good summary, I like that

[tribal bloom]

Besides. The superior mixtape game came out 3 years ago: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1321440/Cassette_Beasts/

Steam

Cassette Beasts

Adventure. Battle. Transform.
Collect awesome monsters to use during turn-based battles in this open-world RPG. Combine any two monster forms using Cassette Beasts’ Fusion System to create unique and powerful new ones!…

Price

$19.99

Recommendations

8631

It's a better game, it's more stylish, AND you can stream it without getting DMCA'd

[jolly sky]

Also I've been liking the look of Dead as Disco

[fresh ginkgo]

In terms of music games, I'm hyped for No Straight Roads 2, whenever that's coming

[jolly sky]

Looks like a mixture of Sifu and Audiosurf

[jolly sky]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/3404260/Dead_as_Disco/

This game for reference

Steam

Dead as Disco

Dead as Disco puts you in the shoes of Charlie Disco, a fallen icon with one chance to reclaim the spotlight from the Idols – Charlie’s ex-bandmates and musical legends. Confront the Idols in stylish combat that syncs to every song, and survive a world torn apart by music, fame, and betrayal In this action-packed, literal Beat ‘Em Up.

****…

Price

$19.99

Recommendations

3826

[coarse python]

-# pain! Is consuming me! Lock! With a broken key!...

[golden latch]

Rhythm beatem up i was thinking of getting that cause you can add your own songs and chart them too

[grizzled laurel]

@quartz shell no glue for you

[fresh ginkgo]

https://youtu.be/lb4JAGF8Rz8

[quartz shell]

I. EAT. YOUR. GLUE!

[jolly sky]

Yea that's a killer feature, that's been my big draw to it

[quartz shell]

I EAT IT UP!

[golden latch]

240 bpm for that heart attack experience

[golden latch]

https://tenor.com/view/there-will-be-blood-i-drink-your-milkshake-daniel-day-lewis-gif-3477590

[jolly sky]

Playing Dead As Disco to Carpenter Brut sounds like it would be a hell of a good time

[fresh ginkgo]

NSR isn't just rhythm beatemup, it's specifically a rhythm boss rush game.

[jolly sky]

https://youtu.be/st6tv3yGIO8

This song comes to mind

[fresh ginkgo]

-# Trailer for the first game in case anyone has never heard of it: https://youtu.be/VPHVOSyUObw

[golden latch]

Is it a 1 hit dead type, a 3 strikes your out, or healthbar nebulous number.

[fresh ginkgo]

There's health bars, but IIRC not "nebulous"

More like a meter than a bar; 1:1 visual representation of what you have

[golden latch]

I just wish we could customize the shader colors so i could go thematic like gothic for songs like this https://youtu.be/hz6nMsQPSJk

[jolly sky]

Lmao. Beat-hoven if you will

[golden latch]

I personally would love to use the bach-hand to combo

[jolly sky]

alriiiiiight lmao

[fresh ginkgo]

Oh NSR also has parry mechanics.
Because what action game is complete without em? XD

[gray fable]

I am really tempted to see if I can get a bunch of people to play cassette beasts with me from start to finish

[earnest cove]

the aliens talk lol

the passion of the mystery and the chat being cynical

[dusky grove]

it looks fun, but as a music game it's not really there for me. It doesn't care about the songs you put in, just the bpm. You could stick 2 mins of silence there and it'll still play fine

like, when I think of "Music game" I expect something to do with the song other than the bpm. maybe the melody, maybe certain measures are harder/easier than others, something

[gray fable]

https://tenor.com/view/alien-guy-thats-crazy-woozy-crazy-scientist-gif-8609893263374809391

[silent compass]

Enjoy california's sentient pants.

aka Fresno Nightcrawler

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresno_nightcrawler

[restive grotto]

Sentient pants

I love it

[silent compass]

sentient pants

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziB35K9shuI

see

[restive grotto]

Wow, that REALLY does look like jimmy neutron sentient pants.

[gray fable]

something tells me that either thor watched beyblade metal fusion or someone just showed him the intro once and he had a laugh

https://youtube.com/shorts/uTNyUaEcfiQ?si=TOIvNoW1Ao3soiTz

[serene valley]

someone posted it here

[subtle gate]

I was here when they posted the first one that was much shorter

[silent compass]

Yeah that got posted here, and Thor specifically @ shadelock.

[ocean agate]

global agenda, the day the goblins hugged it

[rapid scarab]

me and the boys (tm)

[junior jasper]

Getting wild there?

Or trying to find sparkling ppl

[quartz shell]

I have several questions, but I know i'm not going to like the answers to any of them.

[jolly sky]

From what I've heard to seems to care about about the BPM once music is in there

[winter sierra]

All i see is a person wearing huge pants up to their head

[fresh ginkgo]

People are memeing the mr.beast bots now, apparently

Just shittily drawn (on purpose) mockups of the format

[proud depot]

Ever wear pants so high they sit right under your nipples?

[blissful imp]

From the start of the stream this morning.

[worthy ivy]

the scammers need take this opportunity to read the room
when your scam becomes a meme it's time to stop

[quaint hamlet]

meme all the scams so boomers have diagrams of them

[lime sonnet]

@minor nymph https://youtu.be/rnUtqIp8lu8?si=zMFdGoyB3klIbgMC

[onyx tiger]

5 seconds in and i could tell its AI right away lol but oof gen AI is getting scary

[kindred sedge]

My coworker listens to this all the time

[indigo wadi]

way too easy to tell

ppl don't cry 5 seconds into a song

the slow animation glitch of the lips

terrible attempt

[vague lion]

Maybe they need to go see an optometrist? The ultra shiny tear from the woman in the crowd made me laugh so hard.

[indigo wadi]

Like come on, try harder please

[jolly sky]

Lmao "Healing Frequency's"

[indigo wadi]

even if those are real reactions from the audience, that early into a song, uh uh

[jolly sky]

AFAIK there's been absolute zero proof of frequencies having any healing properties

[indigo wadi]

BRUUUUUUUH

it's just a dumb AI channel

[kindred sedge]

yea we need to be using ai for better things

[indigo wadi]

so unnatural

[kindred sedge]

better things like this
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1314558192893558784/1503454925726683197/qTRB6U52TGCYdSaG.mp4?ex=6a036903&is=6a021783&hm=f1c523194d2a778cbd7703605ea0e1ae668da99602f75878822be25931a5d2dc&

[quartz sonnet]

They always have that yellow piss filter applied to them

[worthy ivy]

they need to try harder
my videos are all a bit same'y
an hour of beats with a visualiser and tracklist
but that...
that's taking the michael

at least my thumbnails look different

[indigo wadi]

I'll give em credit here. It does look realistic

[worthy ivy]

milkdrop the goat

[jolly sky]

I do love that first visualizer

[indigo wadi]

these are just old winamp visualization filters

[worthy ivy]

yes
and they're glorious

[indigo wadi]

they are

I miss winamp

[jolly sky]

And they're the best out of all the media players that I've ever seen

[indigo wadi]

it used to kick the llama's ass

[worthy ivy]

I use projectM

[jolly sky]

(Also you can get Milkdrop* seperately as I shown to Cones)

[worthy ivy]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1358800/projectM_Music_Visualizer/

Steam

projectM Music Visualizer

Visualize music with projectM! Experience psychedelic and mesmerizing visuals by transforming music into equations that render into a limitless array of user-contributed visualizations. projectM can detect audio input from any application (like Spotify or Apple Music) or you can use input from a microphone.Get StartedprojectM works out of the…

[blissful imp]

is this a program or a platform?

[worthy ivy]

it's a playback engine for milkdrop presets

[jolly sky]

Someone has also put Milkdrop into Wallpaper Engine too

[worthy ivy]

just gives you the visualiser full screen or in a window
and a basic ui for navigating presets

I use it cos it's light and I can do it on the fly

OBS can see it out of the box

no mess

no fuss

[jolly sky]

Here's another Winamp Alternative (made by the old devs)

https://getwacup.com/

[lime sonnet]

I'll give you that I need to see an optometrist, my glasses are way too old. But my mom and her partner are just old, they don't know how to spot AI.

[hoary blaze]

hey, does winamp work on linux

[pale saffron]

But the question has to be asked...

Is Llama whipping involved?

If not, I'm not sure I want it anywhere near my music.

I can't trust music software that doesn't flog the sheep-horses

[jolly sky]

Well sadly, I'd rather use an old (before the Winamp buyout) or use that one, 'cause a bunch of crypto people bought winamp :(

[hoary blaze]

this talking about winamp has me wanting to try to play a song from youtube through bash

... yo, it works

[void kiln]

Dan you have aged my bones

[small nacelle]

is this new? I can gift a sub to all live-follower. Just some casual 1887€

[river island]

Power move

[hoary blaze]

you should click the button and see what happens

[terse pelican]

I think it's been around for a whle, It just doesn't show up for everyone.

[small nacelle]

could be. I see the 1000 Sub option for the first time too. Twitch thinks I'm rich

[coarse python]

dwba
determined whale by amazon

[blissful imp]

Blender 4

[rapid scarab]

https://www.twitch.tv/piratesoftware/clip/PleasantMoldyBoarKappaRoss-8GkWzAjVqvLcfI-3

he admited it

[bronze plaza]

This is "Information" from the Farever shop -

[hoary blaze]

i touched grass and now i have grass at home

[bronze plaza]

I spent all weekend touching grass and now I'm sick. Going outside is overrated

[round plover]

in this day we have confirmation: https://www.twitch.tv/piratesoftware/clip/CogentScrumptiousClamBuddhaBar-OeEyDgbfYCLlhke6

[hoary blaze]

i ran touch ~/grass and now I have grass in my home directory

[ocean agate]

manifesting ads

[rapid scarab]

you are a little late xD

[hoary blaze]

I wonder... if it's because I kept bringing up the Presto Hot Dogger and other methods of glizzy cooking.

[wheat sleet]

The Presto Hot Dogger is probably why we don't use electro shock therapy anymore.

Nobody likes bones in their hot dogs

[hoary blaze]

Apparently electrocution was not a flavorful method of cooking.

... I do want to attempt to acquire a Presto Hot Dogger instead of making some kind of experiment that would make ElectroBOOM experiment to prepare an overprocessed sausage.

Which, somehow while preparing that statement, I hit Super+Y to enable auto tiling. I disabled that hotkey. Maybe it's because I was unprepared, but Window Tiling does not appear to be my jam.

[wicked schooner]

Beautiful
https://youtu.be/3draC8V_UrY

[subtle gate]

wait does rototilling Bermuda grass count as touching grass?

[hoary blaze]

I dunno, I put some crap in ~/grass that definitely is not associated with touching grass.

i'm sorry, but i'm contractually obligated to tell you that I use Linux

[wheat sleet]

Soon many more will be using Linux https://www.polygon.com/steam-machine-models-storage-valve-console-hardware-reservation/

[hoary blaze]

yeah, proton was basically why I switched to Linux. I don't do much to any multiplayer gaming, and proton allows me to play all the games I would normally play on Linux with less overhead. I'm also familiar with Linux from work and using it in college.

and my specs aren't the best for a win11 gaming machine, but they're not bad for a linux gaming machine

[wintry coyote]

multiplayer games arent an issue. "competitive" games are.

[hoary blaze]

True, WoW CAN run on it, but if it's not on Steam, I generally don't bother with it these days. But yeah, if it doesn't have kernel level anti-cheat, Linux can run it these days, in general.

[wheat sleet]

Don't forget secureboot. Some games require that now, too.

[hoary blaze]

eh... I'm currently working on a Trails in the Sky 1st Chapter playthrough when I'm not playing Everything is Crab, Although I'm downloading KCD2 to see what my temps look like when it's running. So, not much that would be worried about secureboot/kernel level crap.

[wintry coyote]

lutris has made installing non-steam games a breeze. wow, diablo 2, etc. and proton works wonders. some of my games run better than on windows.

[hoary blaze]

Yeah, I used Lutris for WoW, but I wasn't getting in to it. Thor playing Diablo 4 and D4 being on sale have me slightly interested, but I doubt I pull the trigger.

[wintry coyote]

secureboot can work on linux too these days. it can require fiddling depending on your distro, but the big ones are easy if you just have on when installing the distro.

[wintry coyote]

D4 is on steam too though.

[hoary blaze]

Pop!_OS atm, but I'm considering moving to EndeavorOS or something more Debian and less Arch that is still gaming oriented without being tied to System76 like Pop

[hoary blaze]

Oh yeah, that's where I saw the D4 sale.

... I guess I could go ahead and buy D4 without the DLC and see what I think, but it's got like... 4 games in front of it, if I push it up the list.

[wintry coyote]

personally i've been happy as a pig in mud with fedora. it's good enough mix of bleeding edge and stability for me.

[hoary blaze]

Fedora is good, but if I'm not going wild with something arch based, I'm going debian based. Probably not Ubuntu or Mint. I dunno. I think there's a SteamOS, but this is also my daily driver, ya know?

[wintry coyote]

and i dislike the "gaming distros". they barely bring anything to the table that you cannot do with a normal distro.

[hoary blaze]

absolutely agree, but Pop!_OS was easy to get going. Right now, I just don't like the ties to System76. not immediately changing distros over it, but it has me thinking

[wintry coyote]

which is why fedora. it's in the middle of "bleeding edge, stability and plain old boring desktop".

[hoary blaze]

Yeah, I just like apt > yum

[wintry coyote]

if i wanna experiment i'll get a laptop.

yum? nah. dnf5 these days.

[hoary blaze]

With basically everything being flatpak these days... did not finish 5? Nah, it's been a minute since I've done anything redhat based, if it's not evident from me saying the ol' yellow dog update manager, but yeah

[wintry coyote]

yes, coming from debian it took a second to stop feeling weird, but now i have a gut feeling i've had less issues with dnf than i had with apt.

[hoary blaze]

... hrm. And fedora specifically? That's actually a pretty big endorsement. You use GNOME/KDE or something else? I kinda want to swap to KDE, but I've had a decent time being able to link scripts in with my desktop environment. However, KDE Connect with my phone is kinda jank on GNOME and would prolly feel better on KDE

[wintry coyote]

also used to live and die by gnome, but swapped to KDE too and... it's fantastic these days.

[hoary blaze]

And I can haul along my jank scripts to KDE, I'm assuming? I think KDE allows more customization for that than GNOME these days, from what I'm hearing. What's your neofetch/fastfetch look like, if you don't mind posting?

[wintry coyote]

not on my pc right now, 1am so just got to bed. i'll post it in the morning.

[hoary blaze]

sounds good, sleep well

[wintry coyote]

night. o/

[hoary blaze]

Although, now, after running some diagnostics, I'm considering installing some kind of aftermarket NVMe heatsink or cooler for the little bugger

Looks kinda neat to me also.

[wheat sleet]

That looks very expensive. This is more my price range: https://a.co/d/0j8Lk7hO

[meager rune]

i have this one. good one, very easy to install on the SSD. was only $20 or so from Amazon! highly recommend

fellow goblins, or even my nerd bf @rotund frost could recommend some!

[hoary blaze]

Ooo, thank you! Yeah, while I'm in there, I'm install 2 more be quiet! case fans, doing some dust cleanup/maintenance on the case, which is a Meshify 2. The NVMe SHOULD be fine, but sensor 1 is hitting like 60 C. No temperature warnings from SMART, but I want to go ahead and get it lower. I figure with the heatsink for the NVMe, I can put the new case fans wherever I want, instead of placing them for prioritizing the NVMe.

[hoary blaze]

Ah, wow, that's like straight up 20 heat sinks. Man, I don't know much about hardware, so I'm looking up a guide on the NVMe install I can put with my notes. Something kinda made for it, rather than a general heatsink where I don't know what I'm doing.

[meager rune]

i used a youtube video and constant bugging my boyfriend to install mine

[worthy ivy]

my PC came with an oversized heatsink as big as half a brick

it's glorious

[hoary blaze]

prolly basically the same, -boyfriend. I'm watching this atm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drts0KFFaM4

[worthy ivy]

and probably twice as big as it needs to be

[meager rune]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-brick-hit-fish-toink-spongebob-gif-24552343

[hoary blaze]

SAME. Want to see my current CPU heatsink/fan, cause it is comically oversized.

[meager rune]

i think so yeah

[wheat sleet]

My pc is a glorified space heater/cat bed. It blows upwards so the fur doesn't get sucked in.

[meager rune]

glorified heater in the Winter... in the summer... dying

[wheat sleet]

I do a lot of daytime napping in the summer. Thor's early bird stream schedule helps

[worthy ivy]

mine runs cold - it has too many fans
I ordered it online and only bothered checking the GPU and CPU specs
was cheap enough I was always going to end up ordering it
came with a mahoosive heatsink and too many fans and a load of rgb all over the show
it's like a unicorn exploded in there

[subtle gate]

does it pass out from running too cold

[wheat sleet]

Rgb is just glitter that's electronic safe.

[subtle gate]

like overheating but from cold?

[hoary blaze]

Processor is cold.

NVMe is good, except for the hotspot that is the controller:
nvme-pci-0400
Adapter: PCI adapter
Composite: +42.9°C (low = -273.1°C, high = +84.8°C)
(crit = +84.8°C)
Sensor 1: +59.9°C (low = -273.1°C, high = +65261.8°C)
Sensor 2: +42.9°C (low = -273.1°C, high = +65261.8°C)

[wheat sleet]

Competition overclockers often run into that. Using liquid nitrogen it's possible to get a cpu so cold it stops working

[hoary blaze]

So.. my NVMe is warmer than my CPU, which seems wrong.

[hoary blaze]

Okay, I'm watching the install, and this is exactly what I want. It's kinda cute, it gets a little heatsink pocket to be installed in to.

[meager rune]

yeahhh, it super easy to install! i was scared of messin it up as i don't do a lot of tech stuff in my PC... but it was super easy to put in, and snap into my motherboard.

[hoary blaze]

Yeah, with my case, I'm kind of thinking I can do the install where my PC normally lives instead of having to pull it to my tech bench.

If I get the same temp drops as the guy in the video, I'll be golden.

[subtle gate]

you guys got me randomly singing the beyblade theme

[hoary blaze]

hrm... I may finish this chess video and do some case fan installs now.

[jolly sky]

Behold, a passively cooled GPU

[coarse python]

this is some new coral species

[jolly sky]

Coral powered graphics processing

Rubicon would have great interest in this (Armored Core 6 reference)

[hoary blaze]

Yeah... I'm about to do some case fan installs. Wish me luck.

[jolly sky]

I wish you luck, but also if it helps it requires far less luck than you may think

In otherwords, it's simpler than it looks

[wheat sleet]

Unless you gotta drill holes and use zipties, then you need all the luck you can get. And a vacuum.

[exotic forge]

Love that new Thor short. You know what would've made it funnier is an intro about how he's going into the gates of hell to fight demons.

But anyway, haven't enjoyed a short that much in a while

[coarse python]

Somehow not the sketchiest solution I've heard of

[carmine sierra]

The funniest thing is, I actually knew about GWAFA before Lancer
And then it was still several months after learning about Lancer that I learned they were the same guy

[jolly sky]

I have seen more than a few "Redneck Engineering" solutions for PC's that have worked but shouldn't have in my time

[carmine sierra]

One of my roommates likes the mini-TTRPG things, and had found GWAFA a long while back
He also found one about the players being a pack of raccoons trying to participate in a street race
Each of you have to decide what you're doing each turn without discussing with each other, and then all of it happens at the same time
So if three people decide to turn the car left, you're about to take a hard turn
Probably into a wall

(We learned this from experience)

[hoary blaze]

I pulled back on the fan installs. It looks easy, but I was using an awkward angle trying to install at my desk. So, waiting for the NVMe heat sink, then do it all from my work bench.

[worthy ivy]

I can't seem to find a readout for my CPU temperature
but this caught my eye
does this core voltage look low?

should be a volt and a half or whatever shouldn't it?

idk

[hoary blaze]

Hrm... I couldn't tell ya, I'm not familiar with what those are supposed to be. Sorry.

[worthy ivy]

is fine I think
the internet tells me should be 1.1-1.25v under standard conditions and it does spike to 1.2 occasionally

[hoary blaze]

Is undervolting okay?

[worthy ivy]

pass
I assume so?

you'd get more battery life in a laptop
and less heat too so might be something someone would do?

[hoary blaze]

Oh, quite possibly. I'm just not familiar enough with what you're supposed to do with voltages on a processor to have an informed opinion at all.

[worthy ivy]

my operating assumption is if something is possible there's a nerd out there that's done it

[hoary blaze]

Absolutely. And probably in this Discord.

So, I've got an idea for something I'm in the process of recording, but I might try streaming. I've set up a gitrepo to control RAG documentation for 3 different LLMs inside of a project, where Grok actually has direct git repo access through a connection. Inside of the gitrepo is my current state with a JRPG, 2 walkthroughs, and a 100% achievement guide, that behave as RAG docs for the LLMs. Then, as I move through the game, I take screenshots that feed the models and create markdown docs for the LLMs, representing my live state within the game. What I'm interested in seeing is if the LLM can minimize hallucination due to the RAG posture, and if it can give me unique gaming advice based off of my current game state versus what is just in the walkthrough(s), while also guiding me to 100% completion.

But yeah, otherwise, I'm playing the game blind. Never played it before. So I won't really know if the LLMs are leading me astray/giving me bad advice.

[river island]

This is all of the community in 60secs

[sand solstice]

That's awesome

[river island]

Every tts lol just puns for 1000 years

[blissful imp]

Side note. that's a nice kitchen with a lot of cabinets and drawers.

i'm sure that place is very expensive

[sand solstice]

Probably a million dollar home

[round plover]

If only the twitch clip editing tool loaded the first 5 times I tried...I guess I owe you a liver. Good thing I have spares

[subtle gate]

now it's just song lyrics to elderly songs

[jolly sky]

If you by chance want a more up-to date consistent, and constant readout of voltages/temperatures, I'd recommend HWINFO

CPUID is ok, but it's fairly simple, whereas HWINFO's data is a consistent, constantly refreshing set of data that gives Min-Max output

And it also has Graph readouts

[fresh ginkgo]

If a day ever comes when the BXP disappears from the RS3 mobile shop, I am BOMBARDING Thor with the news

[jolly sky]

If you like data, this should be your go-to @worthy ivy

[fresh ginkgo]

Though anyone who ever calls it "pay to skip"? That's not how BXP works.

It's essentially a multiplier based on amount, not time; if you don't put in the time to grind, it's worthless no matter how you got it.

[jolly sky]

If you want to inform Thor about what you're talking about, you should probably skip the shorthands

[fresh ginkgo]

Literally a topic that came up in today's stream

This is just my follow-up thoughts

[jolly sky]

It may have come up, but human memory is fallible, and "BXP" and "RS3" may not carry any meaning to someone who does not know, or remember what those terms mean

Just saying that being exact is best practice

[fresh ginkgo]

.....

Bxp maybe but that logic falls apart entirely for "rs3"

He knows what that means

[jolly sky]

Does he? Do you know that he knows that? For context he's never played RS3 (at least by his own words)

[blissful imp]

i'll be honest. when i first read RS3 above, for some reason my 1st thought was something to do with RPCS3. the ps3 emulator

i know what RS3 means btw, my mind just first thought RPCS3

[fresh ginkgo]

YES.
BECAUSE HE HAS RECOGNIZED IT MULTIPLE TIMES.

This is a very dumb hill to die on, dude

[jolly sky]

Knowing that RS3 exists does not mean that he knows what the contextual words of what RS3 means

This is just, normal stuff

[fresh ginkgo]

That.
Is not.
What I said

[subtle gate]

I'm stuck on how TTS pronounces certain names

[fresh ginkgo]

I said "recognized", not "acknowledged"

He knows that "RS3" means "RuneScape3", aka non-oldschool runescape

[subtle gate]

oh I see

[jolly sky]

Yes but you're seemingly referring to things that exist within RS3, which is a game that he hasn't played

[fresh ginkgo]

Which I acknowledged your point on already

[subtle gate]

why is it happy instead of happie, happi, happe, hapy,

[blissful imp]

is this argument gonna go as long as the Souls games one from #gaming_general a few days ago which ended in us realizing Grey played them on a keyboard and mouse which is way worse then playing Souls games on a controller

[jolly sky]

Yes, and for a game he hasn't played, he won't understand why BXP disappearing from the mobile shop (which he hasn't played on Desktop or Mobile) would important as you feel it is

[fresh ginkgo]

....

Okay I'm starting to think you flat out weren't there for the context behind my comment

[jolly sky]

It's fair that you feel it's important, but he hasn't played it

[fresh ginkgo]

Bxp isn't my issue with the game

IT'S HIS

The fact it's buyable is what currently keeps him away from the game

BY HIS OWN WORDS

[fresh ginkgo]

Only because there seems to be an utter lack of understanding going on, like then

[blissful imp]

which is "p2w"

or at least your paying for an advantage which is what p2w means in multiplayer games. And thors issue is p2w in multiplayer games.

[fresh ginkgo]

Hence my comment:

[blissful imp]

if only someone would've clipped that conversation about the RXP feature in Runescape 3. i'd imagine context would be fixed

[fresh ginkgo]

It sucks that that's still in the game given the ludicrous amount of improvement the game has been making lately in EVERY OTHER WAY

[jolly sky]

Fair. If Thor (or any streamer for that matter) is already interested in playing something and you give them information on said game, it will could likely stick and be remembered by them.

But also do bare in mind that most streamers read 100's of messages a day, so don't be disheartened if the information goes...unfulfilled

[fresh ginkgo]

....
He's kindof the only streamer I watch live anymore

[jolly sky]

Yes, but streamer's are human

[river cargo]

There are tens of thousands of goblins

and only 1 thor

He can't get to every message

[fresh ginkgo]

Yes.
And I don't watch them; I watch the machine man

:P

[blissful imp]

here's the discord post which thor asked for this morning during the stream as the conversation was initially about OSRS, but then switched to RS3 as Thor has said he'll play it once the p2w features get removed from the game. this was found to be still in the game and Grey didn't know initially as you'll see.

#streamchat message

[fresh ginkgo]

Cause I had informed him of new ferret pet for dungeoneering

[jolly sky]

Your messages (whether Sub'd or unsub'd) are a veritable sea among many 100's of other messages

Thor is no different.

[fresh ginkgo]

Irrelevant when it's a TTS

[river cargo]

Well

Thor does get a hundred TTS a day

so I don't think it's reasonable to expect him to acknowledge or remember all of them

[fresh ginkgo]

He...
Literally acknowledges and engages with them every time.

[brisk sparrow]

and he can forget them. he is human after all.

[jolly sky]

It's not, because I've also recommended games to play Via TTS's, and it has gone unfulfilled.

And I don't blame, or have any emotional or logical feelings towards it. After all, it's just a TTS among many

[fresh ginkgo]

no he's clearly an AI

[brisk sparrow]

Im still waiting for pacific drive

[tribal bloom]

Thor need to get his context window upgraded. Maybe Thor 4.0 will have it

[blissful imp]

When he's on the Ferret stream its actually a CGI clone

like earlier today

[fresh ginkgo]

Apparently he has a list somewhere of games to get around to eventually

[blissful imp]

if you're wondering. Grey asked Thor this on stream as a TTS

And thor said yea he has a private list

[jolly sky]

And to think that anyone's TTS's have any true importance over his life, his decisions, his thoughts, is a sign of Parasocial behaviour. I'm being polite here but that's the true end of it.

[fresh ginkgo]

So if he hasn't played your recommendation yet
The key word there is "yet"

[vast idol]

there are too many games that he wants to play coming out already, so its understandable

[blissful imp]

i literally said this earlier as a TTS. #answered-tts message

there's a shit ton of games to play atm.

[jolly sky]

"Expectation" Is the key word here. You could hope, but hope is a fickle mistress, and so is Expectation.

Expectations are built from You. Not from someone else.

[blissful imp]

too much cake but not enough hands to be able to eat said cake

[jolly sky]

If you have Expectations over someone else's decisions, well that's something you could hope for, but never a guarantee

[fresh ginkgo]

There's a difference between hope, and not being immediately doubtful about everything

I'm not "hopeful", so much as I don't just dismiss things as "not going to happen" off hand

[jolly sky]

Well you should always have hint of doubt over someone elses decisions, because they are not you

[fresh ginkgo]

So you expect me to be cynical instead of openminded or just willing to roll with whatever happens?

[jolly sky]

You would make the decision to play/watch something, but no one else Is you

[fresh ginkgo]

I.
Know.
That.

Where are you getting the idea that I don't think Thor is his own person?

[jolly sky]

You should always be willing to roll with whatever happens when it comes to individual people, because you don't have control over individuals

[fresh ginkgo]

Perhaps that comment was poorly worded; my bad
The "rolling with" was paired with the openmindedness, not the cynicism.

[jolly sky]

But you can't guarantee that the individual will be open minded, right?

[fresh ginkgo]

So?
Doesn't mean I can't be

[jolly sky]

Sure you can be, but to expect an individual to be open minded, and be upset that they aren't, is folly

[blissful imp]

idk how known it is in here, but Grey does have bad mental issues, considering he currently doesn't play on pc due to said mental issues, and also they lost it and nearly had a panic attack apparently when Thor started talking about the fungal infection that took out Stinky and Lulu. because said fungal infection can get all mammals including humans.

[jolly sky]

ZIgag this was something that was not needed to be said here

[fresh ginkgo]

And because I live in the area where it exists.
And am often immune compromised due to the treatment for a chronic kidney condition

[blissful imp]

just to add context and help out.

🤷‍♂️

[fresh ginkgo]

My fear of the hell spores is justified

[waxen comet]

what the heck happened here

[jolly sky]

You're airing out someone else's problems. If they wanted that to be mentioned, they would have done so in this conversation

[fresh ginkgo]

The more often I can go forgetting about them, the better

[fresh ginkgo]

That would require it to occur to me to be mentioned in the moment.

[blissful imp]

A dumb argument about Runescape 3 and getting thor to play specific games

[fresh ginkgo]

Ironically, please do not speak on my behalf as to whether I appreciate someone else chiming in on my behalf

[jolly sky]

And I agree. If you wanted to mention it in this conversation, you would have. It's not up to someone else to air it out for you

[waxen comet]

i mean in the end its up to thor what he wants to play anyway

[blissful imp]

those things i brought up Grey has publicly said. in here and in iirc #gaming_general

[waxen comet]

if he wants to play huniepop then let him

[jolly sky]

Again, what you said wasn't a part of this conversation

[fresh ginkgo]

That's be a wild stream

[blissful imp]

i didn't say anything he hasn't said on this server

[waxen comet]

if he wants to play totally rad skateboarding simulator n0. 45478242 then let him

if he wants to play resident good then so be it

[jolly sky]

But what you said wasn't a part of this topic

[fresh ginkgo]

To be blunt, the whole topic derailed primarily due to dan having a very weird interpretation of what I said, and getting hung up on specific unrelated details even worse than I do

[jolly sky]

So I will ignore what you said entirely

[waxen comet]

i dont even know whats happening

all i understood is let thor play whatever he wants

thats all

[jolly sky]

Not you Grey, but what Zigag decided to bring to topic because it wasn't related at all

[fresh ginkgo]

Yeah, hi.
Person in question here.

For the record, I WHOLLY APPROVE OF ZIG CHIMING IN

[golden mirage]

I don't know what started this but it sounds like everyone just needs to chill and drop the conversation.

[river cargo]

I think Dan's original point was apt

[waxen comet]

the conversation has my taco so it better give me my taco back before you have to drop it on the floor

I WANT MY TACO

[blissful imp]

i mainly added that as i thought it would help with what was being talked about above about Grey getting thor to play certain games.

i just thought adding that context would help.

[waxen comet]

yay

i have my taco back

[jolly sky]

Sadly in this case, it wasn't apt

[fresh ginkgo]

Disagree

The biggest irony here is that you can't seem to grasp that maybe my thought process and logical reasoning don't match yours?

Yet you say things like "if you wanted it said, you would say it"

[jolly sky]

I fail to see how you experience over your....focus on Thor's interest of fungal infections connects what Games or topics within games matches

[fresh ginkgo]

That.
Wasn't the point of what was said.
You're locking onto the wrong details again

[river cargo]

think he's just saying that grey here has certain aptitudes we need to consider

[jolly sky]

ZIGAG brought up an entirely different topic to the conversation that was currently ongoing

[fresh ginkgo]

My thought processes aren't "normal" is the rough point of what zig said.
What you deem "irrelevant" was an example to highlight the relevant point being made

[blissful imp]

it wasn't an interest. Thor was talking about the fungal infection that took out Stinky and Lulu, then explained how while doing research on it he found out it can affect all mammals, including humans.

Which then caused Grey to lose it in the twitch chat. Thor told grey directly in the stream its not something to worry about.

[fresh ginkgo]

i freaked out and dropped out

[jolly sky]

I locked into the wrong details because, the details weren't in anyway meaningful or connected to the current conversation

Basically, keep to the script

[fresh ginkgo]

Which zig used as an example to point out that I have issues.

The relevancy here being my issues include some admitted problems both with temper, and not really comprehending how "normal" people process things.

THAT is the connection to the "script" you speak of

[blissful imp]

because i was hoping bringing those up would start to sort things out with an understanding... it did not.

[jolly sky]

Yes, an entirely different script was injected into the conversation (which was actually on point and within the confines)

[fresh ginkgo]

I appreciate the attempt

[jolly sky]

I get it, but the waters were muddied

[fresh ginkgo]

I don't see how it wasn't relevant but whatever.
This is getting beyond safe levels for me so I definitely need to back out

[waxen comet]

it took me a while to realize i was in streamchat the whole time

[fresh ginkgo]

Never wanted an argument, just wanted to follow-up on a thing that came up during the stream

And then everything went to hell

[river island]

If it was hell then Sis would be here, not me

[fresh ginkgo]

[blissful imp]

this started with grey bringing up he's going to bring it to thors attention once a certain Runescape 3 p2w feature is removed.

[fresh ginkgo]

Because that one feature is the key remaining roadblock to him trying it.
By his own words.

[blissful imp]

@waxen comet this btw #streamchat message

[fresh ginkgo]

I don't even care about the "when".
Just him being willing to give it a shot eventually is good enough for me, should his core issue go away

[jolly sky]

To make it extremely precise (which is what I'd hoped my initial message conveyed)

Is that don't expect Thor, or anyone else to understand the message that is sent to him when shorthands are sent.

[blissful imp]

that feature is jar jar

[fresh ginkgo]

Which I would agree with if he didn't already understand the specific shorthand being used

[jolly sky]

That was really the entirety* of the initial post

[patent creek]

rs3 sucks

[river island]

Is it worth reading up

[fresh ginkgo]

Highly, highly debatable

[blissful imp]

oh no

[river cargo]

and the convo has reached its conclusion lol

[river island]

Don't confuse something being bad for you not enjoying it

[patent creek]

i quit rs3 back in 2012 when they did eoc update

[fresh ginkgo]

AND THAT SAYS EVERYTHING

[patent creek]

eoc killed rs3

[river island]

I never played past 1h

[blissful imp]

RS3's main issue is the p2w shop stuff.

Josh Strife Hayes even said RS3 has the best questing system in any mmo

[fresh ginkgo]

You are horrifically behind, dude

[river island]

Old-school is just more my vibe

[fresh ginkgo]

Everyone, even RS3 players, acknowledge that the intial launch of eoc was hot garbage

But if you think the game is anything like that nowadays?
You are just factually wrong.

[patent creek]

i dumped my blue and green hween masks on flower poker and left

[blissful imp]

my issue when i tried playing OSRS(i've never tried RS3) was i was super confused as to what to do.

[jolly sky]

It doesn't explain everything, but a better summarisation would be

"Don't use acronyms when the person doesn't understand what they mean"

[river cargo]

Yeah 100% this

[fresh ginkgo]

So you're judging the game based on a perspective of it that is over a decade out-of-date

[patent creek]

is the combat still eoc? if yes its garbage plays more like wow and i could never get beind it

[fresh ginkgo]

In name only

[river island]

All games when new lol

[fresh ginkgo]

If you genuinely don't like that overall style of mechanics, then sure that's fine.
Just acknowledge that
A: current RS3 combat is nothing like the trashfire that was EoC's launch.
B: You personally not liking the mechanica doesn't equal them being "garbage"

[blissful imp]

idk what has changed since this video, but if you wanna get an idea as to what RS3 looks like today, here's josh's video. https://youtu.be/lBqpOQqY0fQ

[fresh ginkgo]

Primarily?

• the monetization issues have been addressed since.
• his dungeoneering issues have been addressed since.

[blissful imp]

"most" as we know from this morning

i know josh loves the RS3 questing

[fresh ginkgo]

Oh yeah absolutely.
Runescape in any form is a quest design masterclass, and RS3 brings in some high production value on top of that

[jolly sky]

Also referring to this. I love Elite Dangerous. To the point where I bought a Flight Stick, enabled Face Tracking (via webcam) and Voice Activation controls, and I personally would rate it 10/10. Someone else who doesn't like even the tutorial could rate it 5/10.

It may not be their type of game. Am I going to shit on them for it? God no. If anything I would like to help, and guide them to help them enjoy it (without the extras) And if they still don't enjoy it? Oh well, I'll move on.

[patent creek]

fk cant remember my rs3 login

[fresh ginkgo]

Well..
If you have a jagex account, then it should be the same across both games

[patent creek]

naww never linked it to Jagex account

[fresh ginkgo]

RIP

I know the feeling of losing an old account to poor memory

I still remember the username of my ORIGINAL runescape account.
Just not the password

And it's tied to a long, LONG dead email

[blissful imp]

btw. josh is almost at 1 million subs

just noticed

[fresh ginkgo]

I hope he does a revist of that video

[river island]

As they say
To each their own

[fresh ginkgo]

Now that many of his issues have been addressed

[jolly sky]

Precisely. Same with movies. or music, or anything that is a subjective experience

[patent creek]

does rs3 have a runelite?

[fresh ginkgo]

No, but also doesn't need one in most cases

And also IIRC they're working on making something like that available

[blissful imp]

you'd have to bring it up to josh on stream when he does stream. he actually recently started playing Neverwinter Nights on stream recently to go back through it. it has bad pacing issues.

This video he talks about the most underrated mmo in his opinion as he was asked in chat, and he talks about neverwinter nights and its issues. https://youtu.be/fV49XSo3Nj8

[jolly sky]

Like my taste in music has expanded and grown as I've gotten older. There was a time in my teenage years when I thought Metal was the only genre worth listening to and everything else trash.

Thank goodness I grew enough as a person where I can now enjoy a veritable menagarie of music.

[blissful imp]

iirc it was DDO and LOTRO

[fresh ginkgo]

Okay to be clear the gameplay in this clip is Neverwinter, not Neverwinter Nights

There is legitimately a MASSIVE difference

[blissful imp]

i thought only 1 still existed

but yea he goes over neverwinter as it was the mmo he played and what started off his main channel

[fresh ginkgo]

Neverwinter is a standard class-based MMO with a "sword coast" D&D paintjob.
Neverwinter Nights (1 and 2) are some classic CRPG games

Still available on many storefronts, actually

[jolly sky]

It is quite funny that Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura is a shining beacon of a "proper" RPG experience

And it's 20+ years old

[patent creek]

thats a game i aint heard of in minute never winter... takes me back to ps4 days

[blissful imp]

well. he goes over neverwinter and talks about how bad the pacing is because of how easy the early game is that its BORING. people said in chat Endgame is when it gets diffucult these days.

[fresh ginkgo]

IMO neverwinter kinda sucks anyways

It's.. fine, as an MMO I guess?
Some of the class mechanics are a bit fun.
But it's just so basic

[blissful imp]

imo from watching that video the combat looks cool and i like stuff like the damage numbers and the health bar

[fresh ginkgo]

So far the best class-based MMORPG I've played is still TERA

That game was FUN

[blissful imp]

An mmo josh strife hayes killed

[jolly sky]

The "problem" with MMORPG's is that the story of them can't really change, and it limits what you can do as a player

[blissful imp]

says the tera community

former tera community

[fresh ginkgo]

Who says it's dead?

One version of it got shut down

[jolly sky]

And by "problem" it's not really a problem, it's just the type of game that people want to play of course

[blissful imp]

i think the game got shutdown and the community blamed josh

[fresh ginkgo]

The official PC servers got shut down, that's all

• console servers are still running
• private servers are still a thing

-# Sadly I lack an appropriate console for the game

[jolly sky]

Like in Arcanum, you can literally convince the main antagonist to kill himself by logically and emotionally making them understand that what they want to do is actually going to harm the world they previously loved

[blissful imp]

i just think mmo's are outdated. mainly in combat as i think tab target combat just isn't that fun. honestly a Sandbox MMO would probably solve your issue.

Also josh had this conversation on mmo's being outdated in a recent video. While playing Albion https://youtu.be/ZOP3X-aWYGg

[fresh ginkgo]

Whenever I hear "arcanum" my mind instead goes straight to "Arcanum: Theory of
Magic", hands-down the most bonkers deep incremental game I've ever seen.

I've played it for years now and still haven't explored every path.
AND it's still being developed

[jolly sky]

It's far more than just combat-based. The important part is the story.

And in an MMORPG, you can't have a story that differs from everyone else's experience, as the story has to line up with everyone else's due to the nature of it being an Internet Game

[fresh ginkgo]

Tab-target can be good if executed well

For example, I'd argue city of heroes/villains did a pretty solid job

[jolly sky]

An MMORPG inherently lacks a personal story that you can actually change the outcome of.

I'm not saying that's bad, just that, well it is what it is

[fresh ginkgo]

.... funnily enough, city of heroes/villains also comes up to counter this point as well.

[jolly sky]

I do have to ask the question, how does that story actually affect everyone else who plays the game? (I've never played City of Heroes)

[fresh ginkgo]

Everyone else..?
You only said "story you can change the outcome of"

It sounds like I'm missing something here?

[jolly sky]

Yes, you personally

[fresh ginkgo]

It may be the same overarching structure and MAJOR plot for everyone.
But the route you take and the outcome of various key events will vary heavily from player to player based on how they choose to do things.

[blissful imp]

tab-target is the one where movement is WASD, the control the camera you hold right click, to get in a battle with an enemy you need to click on them then press hotkeys on your hotbar to do attacks. i might be forgetting something, but i just think its a bit clunky.

i'd like a more action based combat like in FF16/DMC5. i use them as iirc the FF16 combat was made by the guy that made the combat for DMC5. Warframe works here as well.

[jolly sky]

As in, do your personal choices (which characters you help/hinder etc) change the direct outcome of the story?

In an MMORPG that sounds like an impossbility as then, well everyone would have their own personal world where they made choices that others did not

[silver stump]

thats rare-ish even outside of mmos

[fresh ginkgo]

Yes I know what tab-target combat is.
CoX does it well, IMO, by making combat very much a challenge of resource management instead of reactive skill.
Your energy (the typical mana system) drains VERY quickly if you use it poorly. The game heavily encourages, and often demands, skilled timing of what moves to use when.

[jolly sky]

And that's where Arcanum comes in. It's an RPG that literally does that and it's not done enough in more...modern RPG's

[carmine sierra]

That's not really feasible in an MMO

[jolly sky]

A lot of modern games are afraid to show a "wrong" or an "uncomfortable" ending

[fresh ginkgo]

Unless you're running electrical powers (which have an innate energy siphoning effect, in exchange for some below-average DPS), just going in spamming attacks is going to have you running out of energy in seconds at higher levels.

[silver stump]

this seems like you just have a preference for certain types of rpgs which dont transfer very well to mmos, so im kinda confused why you keep bringing it up

[jolly sky]

Preference? Nah I was talking about how the personal importance of an MMORPG's story can be lost when, well you as a player have no actual stake in it

[blissful imp]

wdym is not feasible? i'm not saying make it 1:1 obviously, but an mmorpg is just an online rpg or at least that's what it should be. That style of combat should work.

[fresh ginkgo]

To an extent? Yes. Not for everything, but absolutely more than in most MMOs

[blissful imp]

Also i brought up Warframe which is Action combat and works very well. and is an mmo

[carmine sierra]

Personally I've never had a strong preference towards nor dislike of hotbar combat
The emphasis for me has always been about the fight design and group mechanics, which is why I've gravitated towards FFXIV
The bosses are fantastically designed there, and the trick with the hotbar stuff is maintaining it while resolving mechanics correctly
As one person I follow put it:

There's no class in this game that's so complicated you couldn't get some muscle memory down with a few hours and a striking dummy
The hard part is doing that while having a series of two dozen bricks thrown at your head

[jolly sky]

It's not feasible because many people will play that game, and having true reactive combat like DMC5 you'll have to take latency into account

[carmine sierra]

Warframe is small-group at most, isn't it?
I don't remember there being any big open-world combat areas
And also everything just kinda melts in it if your build is in any way competent

[silver stump]

that is still an opinion aka personnel preference, alot of people dont need to know that their choices actively change the world they just like the game

[fresh ginkgo]

Warframe
TERA
Elder Scrolls Online

There are PLENTY of MMOs with action combat.
An exact DMC/Bayonetta style of combat system probably wouldn't translate well to an MMO, but action combat is already a well-established route

[carmine sierra]

And yes, what Dan said
Latency is always going to be a problem there, not to mention juggling enemies is either not going to be a thing or is going to be vastly overpowered with multiple people

[blissful imp]

i'll be honest. i don't like that combat as i have small hands and reaching for hotkeys is rough for me. i don't like doing finger twister on my keyboard.

[carmine sierra]

You can rebind the keys

Some of them even have controller support

[carmine sierra]

DMC-style is what I was talking about

And I'll be honest, I barely consider Warframe an MMO

[fresh ginkgo]

Try City of Heroes: Homecoming

The pace is generally slow and strategic enough you can opt to click the hotbar instead of using keys.

[jolly sky]

Yea, but what I was talking about was the difference between single player RPG's and MMORPG's, and that there isn't enought SIngle player RPG's that give the choice, and consequences of the players actions.

There are too many Single player RPG's that want to give the player a "feel-good" ending

[carmine sierra]

Having multiplayer capability doesn't make a game an MMO

[silver stump]

this is related to another problem i see alot, people gatekeeping what counts as an mmo

[blissful imp]

Good controller support?

i heard New World had really good controller support in a video i saw recently, but its dead. i'd be down to play with a controller if the support is good.

[carmine sierra]

My raid lead in FFXIV has done every bit of the hardest content they've put out, and uses a controller

It was made for consoles before PC, in many ways

[fresh ginkgo]

Warframe does kinda sit on the line a bit, sure.
But it does fall more on the "MMO" side

[silver stump]

yeah, i can agree with that

[jolly sky]

Agreed. Warframe is at best, a limited, lobby based multiplayer game, and was designed with that in mind

[blissful imp]

Thor actually said on stream that D4 is an mmo

[carmine sierra]

Exactly

[jolly sky]

But it's really, really not

Like inherently

[carmine sierra]

D4 does fit a lot of the qualifications
It has open world areas where you get dropped in with other players, very similar to how other MMOs work
It's just missing some of the community-organizing aspects

[silver stump]

but when reseaching farever, i found alot of people saying it shouldent be called an mmo because it seemed like it was only a couple dozen people per world(these where discussions from before it launched

[jolly sky]

Lots of people being able to play it at the same time and trade with each other =/= an MMO

[silver stump]

why not?

what makes an mmo?

if not that

[carmine sierra]

As far as I remember, I don't recall it having anything along the lines of guilds or global chats and such
Or for more modern MMOs, group finders

I could be wrong about that

[jolly sky]

If you play Diablo 4, are you going to see other players on the same map, doing the same quests on the same world?

No

[fresh ginkgo]

Well that argument is just stupid.

The only one that has any merit is the fact a bulk of the gameplay is doing instanced missions, where queuing up with people is optional, versus an open map where you can randomly encounter people.

[blissful imp]

Massively Multiplayer Online

A videogame with MASSIVE player count servers where you can see hundreds of players on a server

[fresh ginkgo]

But that just means it sits very close to the line between "multiplayer" and "MMO"

[carmine sierra]

But are you actually walking around the world and able to see and interact with them outside of instanced content, or is it just a lobby system with a lot of people playing?

[silver stump]

hundreds? that discounts alot of things most people agree are mmos then

[carmine sierra]

Because by that logic, Helldivers 2 is an MMO

[fresh ginkgo]

.....yes.

[carmine sierra]

Not really

[fresh ginkgo]

I'm pretty sure most people do consider it to be one

[carmine sierra]

First I've heard that claim

[fresh ginkgo]

To be fair the game never interested me so I could be mistaken

[silver stump]

the point im trying to make is that trying to segregate games into these discrete groups where everyone has a different opinion on what goes where is stupid

[blissful imp]

than i guess Farever isn't an MMO as it uses instanced servers in an open world. you do see and play with other players in those servers, but i've heard they're instanced.

[jolly sky]

An MMO is WoW. An MMO is Guild Wars. An MMO was Ashes of Creation, where you would travel across the map and see other players doing their own thing at the same time that you are doing your own thing.

Diablo/POE/etc is NOT that.

[blissful imp]

minus end game dungeons. those aren't instanced apparently

dungeon loot

[silver stump]

#streamchat message

[fresh ginkgo]

Your logic mainly falls apart because I can point to things which fit your criteria that absolutely nobody would call an MMO

[silver stump]

that is your OPINION it is not a fact

[carmine sierra]

The biggest things of MMOs to me are like

• Open-world areas that all players (or at least those sharing a server) are dropped into, and can see and interact with each other
• Some kind of community organization (guilds, etc), and most often some kind of group finder to do content together

[jolly sky]

That isn't an opinion. That is what MMO's are

[fresh ginkgo]

The BIG one being FFXV, before they removed the avatara system

[silver stump]

acording to what factual and widely agreed upon metric

[blissful imp]

i'm glad there's a Wiki for this. closest thing to facts i guess https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_game

[fresh ginkgo]

You could run around.
Actively see (holograms of) other players running around.
And there was ways to interact with them.

But not one person on earth would ever call FFXV an MMO

[carmine sierra]

You're not playing the game with them

That's like saying the bloodstains and messages in Elden Ring make it an MMO

[jolly sky]

Acccording to the literal metric of what MMO's are. If you boot up Warframe, are you going to encounter other players when you're on quests? No, unless you queue up for 4 player quests for match making?

[waxen comet]

if youre not playing with them live then its kinda not multiplayer then right

[silver stump]

what metric

[fresh ginkgo]

You're also not playing the game with others in anything that has a built-in ironman/SSF mode.

But those typically still get called MMOs

[blissful imp]

the name MMO is pretty dumb for a genre name when you think about it.

What would be a better name?

[carmine sierra]

Just because it has the option to go it alone doesn't mean that rules out the possiblity of not doing so

[fresh ginkgo]

And vice-versa

[jolly sky]

Again, the metric that was literally stated in my words

[silver stump]

the words "massively multiplayer online" dont describe how servers are set up or how interaction with other playes works, so what metric are you talking about

[coarse python]

what even is it
massively multiplayer online? that's not how words work

[fresh ginkgo]

To be fair? Video game genres are a mess across the board

[carmine sierra]

That's something we can agree on 😛

[jolly sky]

Is Counter strike an MMO because you can play with 12 people? no

[blissful imp]

that's even what it says on the wiki

[coarse python]

it's like ATM in reverse somehow

[blissful imp]

So massive they had to add a ly in there

[fresh ginkgo]

There's like...
Three different categories of genre classification that all get lumped together under "genre"

"FPS" isn't the same type of genre as "horror"

[silver stump]

how about battlefield

[coarse python]

where you've dropped the term that completes the phrase

[carmine sierra]

I'd personally disagree with that wiki article on the idea of MMO's not having a persistent game world that everyone shares
That kinda defeats a major purpose of the genre to me

[jolly sky]

Can you explore the entire world of Battlefield and come across people randomly? No.

Can I wander across Maple Story and see random people travelling across the game on their own quests?

Yes

[carmine sierra]

Yeah, that's the kicker for me with Warframe
There are a ton of people playing it, but I'm not going to run into any of them unless they get queued into a map with me

[fresh ginkgo]

Here's one that'll break your brain, then: Elona/Elin.

[jolly sky]

Matchmaking

[carmine sierra]

MMO's to me are defined by a persistent overworld that everyone gets dumped into, no exceptions

[jolly sky]

Match
Making

[carmine sierra]

There's instanced content outside of that overworld, but the overworld is a major factor

[jolly sky]

If you can only see or play with other people through matchmaking, that isn't an MMO

[fresh ginkgo]

Because the answer is both yes and no.
I cannot for the life of me figure out the criteria all I know is sometimes it feels instanced, sometimes I see others running around.

[brisk sparrow]

-# are we arguing semantics or actual definitions atp

[blissful imp]

by this meaning, An Extraction shooter like Arc Raiders is an MMO with lobbies in between. as in a solo queue you can travel the maps and run into people doing quests and hoping to survive the pve enemies and extract.

[golden latch]

Doom is a fps horror game since it fits all the criteria (even if it may not try to be scary it absolutely is made to be repugnant or abhorrent and some people are scared of doom) 🙃 words are made up and are just a vehicle to better express ideas.

[silver stump]

semantics, thats why im leaving for a few hours

[carmine sierra]

D4 does sort of have the overworld, but it's not persistent across all players
You just kinda get dumped in an instance based on when one has slots, and you could potentially leave and come back into a completely separate one
It's not the only thing in it that falls short of what I'd define as an MMO, but it's one
(Also I'm pretty sure your map is instanced based on quest progression as well, if you're still working through that)

[jolly sky]

It's not an MMO because you cannot freely explore the entire world of Arc Raiders.

You have to queue and enter into the matchmaking system

I'm bewildered that the idea of what a MMO is, is being questioned at this point

[junior jasper]

https://tenor.com/view/popcorn-guy-relaxing-popcorm-popcorn-gif-26404903

[jolly sky]

It's extremely obvious

[blissful imp]

All i'm seeing from this is the genre name for MMO is very bad.

[fresh ginkgo]

Finally something we can agree on

[carmine sierra]

That as well

[blissful imp]

but there's a lot of video game genres with shitty names

[carmine sierra]

There are a ton of factors to games that trying to nail it down to one genre or another is often muddled

[jolly sky]

Maple Story is an MMO. WoW is an MMO. Guild Wars is an MMO.

Games that you have to party with people to see other people in the entire world is not an MMO

[carmine sierra]

Like
RE8 is a first-person shooter
But it's primarily horror
But it also has some collectathon aspects, if I remember right

[fresh ginkgo]

And we come full circle to warframe being incredibly close to the line on this point

[blissful imp]

"But it's primarily horror"

RE5 and 6: Hello there

4 as well tbf

[fresh ginkgo]

Because it has regions where you can, in fact, just run around and see other people

[carmine sierra]

That's why I said specifically RE8 😛

[golden latch]

darksouls is an mmo. (Im guessing you dont really mean just seeing other players is the real criteria cause online player ghost systems would fill that criteria)

[jolly sky]

An MMO is a game where you can just, be in the world and not have to enter matchmaking or enter a party with people to see others is an MMO.

[carmine sierra]

Those regions are the exception, compared to most of the game

[fresh ginkgo]

No matchmaking, no lobbies, just dedicated maps that are fully open

[jolly sky]

YES.

Just literally there

[fresh ginkgo]

I'm saying warframe has those

[carmine sierra]

Like, there are areas in Warframe that are more open-ended in an MMO style
But meanwhile what we're defining as MMO's are primarily open-ended, with some instanced content on the side

[golden latch]

So wow battlegrounds and dungeons arnt mmo content

[carmine sierra]

Which is why I said that for Warframe, it's more of the exception than the norm

[fresh ginkgo]

And this is exactly why I keep saying warframe sits very close to the line between them

[blissful imp]

Again, all i'm seeing is that the name for MMO is a terrible genre name.

[golden latch]

So if the game has a huge hub world/map you are playing an mmo since you joined a host server 🙃

[carmine sierra]

I'm not disagreeing with you there, I just personally think it doesn't cross over the line to the point that I'd really call it an MMO

[blissful imp]

And isn't what the games actually are

[jolly sky]

So it has MMO-like qualities in a very specific instance but that does not make it by definition an MMO

[carmine sierra]

Depends if you're dropped into that central map with everyone else who's online at the time

[golden latch]

It wasnt a genre name back in the day it was just a descriptor of the player type (alot of people playing an online game at once) its evolved and had things tacked on causing these descrepancies

[golden latch]

Again how many people on your “instanced server”

[jolly sky]

Can I visit any of missions or quests in Warframe and see people in the playerbase doing the same quests? No

Can I see that in WoW/Maplestory/Guild Wars? Yes

[waxen comet]

i mean a lot of the genres were just descriptors like first person shooter

and third person shooter

[carmine sierra]

I don't know what you mean by that

[blissful imp]

What would be a good genre name for these games then? sounds like a change needs to happen to make things better

[golden latch]

Again darksouls is an mmo by the see criteria

[waxen comet]

in fact i think every genre is a descriptor right

[carmine sierra]

No, it's not

[waxen comet]

like soulslike is a game taht is similar to dark souls

same with roguelike

[golden latch]

Genres are dumb just name a game based on its qualities like we used to 🙃

[waxen comet]

we just have crappy names for genres

[fresh ginkgo]

I still vote "roguel" to kill the debate

[jolly sky]

No it doesn't, becuase I can't see., interact, click on, or BE with that person

[carmine sierra]

You can just see a ghost running by or a blood splatter or message

[blissful imp]

So wtf is Concord?

[carmine sierra]

But there's little to no interaction there

[golden latch]

Player Ghost systems fill action dans criteria they just dont want to accept the flaw in the see players in the open world criteria

[fresh ginkgo]

Dead

[golden latch]

Dead game

[carmine sierra]

You're narrowing the criteria to literally only seeing other players and nothing else

[blissful imp]

its quality is being dead?

So its a Zombie game

[fresh ginkgo]

Isn't one of DS's most famous features the fact you can just randomly be invaded and attacked by these people?

[carmine sierra]

Also like
I can enable offline mode in Dark Souls

[jolly sky]

No, becuase the criteria is completely and utterly sound. I can't literally interact with the person in the open world

[golden latch]

Its massive multiplayer and its online 🙃 thats all the words used to mean darksouls filled all those criteria and a ghost systems fills the see players criteria he added himself

[carmine sierra]

That's still not the online playerbase at any given time all inhabiting the same version of the same area

[carmine sierra]

If you say so

[fresh ginkgo]

I was responding to a specific argument which wasn't that

[coarse python]

I'm still looking for like co-op darkest dungeon

[carmine sierra]

If we're getting to the point of "It fits the individual words", then I'm just going to bed

[golden latch]

Ah so invasions dont count and yes you can interact with ghosts though limited and it doesnt effect other players (but you didnt add the “interaction” clause earlier)

[jolly sky]

BLue, please. Stop being the way you are for a moment of your time

[fresh ginkgo]

I feel like I should be saying that to you

[golden latch]

but this is fun i love word salad

[jolly sky]

You can't be invaded by the entire playerbase at the same time. You can't interact with the entire playerbase or be visible to the entire playerbase at the same time.

[coarse python]

Someone please tell me if you know this I don't want this to be what I start doing gamedev for wireless is hard

[golden latch]

Cant in most mmos either cause of instanced server systems

[waxen comet]

i think the base criteria for MMO is that it has to be actively multiplayer

like thats it

[carmine sierra]

That's a hardware limitation, not a design decision

[jolly sky]

There is a time where muddying the waters is fun and interesting, this is a time when it isn't.

[waxen comet]

the massive in mmo is a weird definition bec we have no number to truly put that in the massive part

[blissful imp]

well. servers with LOTS AND LOTS of players.

[golden latch]

Genre is dumb and you should only descripe games by its quality not try to assume qualities to it past the direct words used.

[carmine sierra]

Sure

[waxen comet]

i mean technically i can have a server that has lots and lots of players but subdivided into instances of 5 players

[fresh ginkgo]

RUNESCAPE

Fekkin RUNESCAPE shuts down that "entire playerbase" argument

I dare you to say runescape ISN'T an MMO

[waxen comet]

ok dare accepted

[coarse python]

By naming an abstract you reduce it
Which can be useful but not always

[waxen comet]

runescape isnt an mmo

[river cargo]

genres are great descriptors for the uninformed

[blissful imp]

ok

[waxen comet]

do i win a prize

[golden latch]

Im the Diogenes of this convo plato is upset i called his featherless biped man a plucked chicken 🙃

[waxen comet]

if first person and 3rd person shooter exisst where is 2nd person shooter

[carmine sierra]

I vote the old RE games are 2nd person shooters by virtue of locked camera positions

[coarse python]

Duck hunt I think

[waxen comet]

ok

where is 4th person shooter

[jolly sky]

Yes and believe it or not this isn't Roman times and Diogenes isn't always welcome and is infact derailing an actual conversation

[coarse python]

The audience has a gun...? Also duck hunt I think

[fresh ginkgo]

https://youtu.be/mC8QoRa8y_Q?si=esvFnABz2mHHAWvi

[golden latch]

That one online paintball game with the ball shooter attachment i saw long ago (it literally shot you if you got hit in game)

[waxen comet]

zeroth person shooter

[coarse python]

You have broken my interpretation algorithm

[waxen comet]

narrator says that someone shot someone

there zeroth person

[golden latch]

I see no derailing here just stating the criteria that is used for expressing the words used are not necessarily correct and there is a better system past trying to defend the “genre” labeling method to describe a game.

[coarse python]

Baldurs Gate 3, then

[waxen comet]

nono one of those old text based games

[fresh ginkgo]

"2nd person" in games is roughly "perspective of another character in the scene, different from the one you're controlling"

[coarse python]

I wish they made a modern one of those that isn't genAI [expletive]

[golden latch]

But to be fair people changed the meaning of “mmo” but “massive mutilplayer online” are effectively two different concepts at this point cause people got attached to specific games they use as a blue print instead of just a basic descrptor

[carmine sierra]

That's how genres work my dude

[jolly sky]

I could (if I dared to download and play it again) play Maple Story where I could see, interact with, follow, message, click on, friend request, trade with, ETC a completely random person in the world, whether it be the Tutorial island, all the way to the end-game areas.

That is an MMO. Could I do that in all areas of Warframe? No. Could I do that Call of Duty? No. Could I do that in Diablo? PoE? No.

[golden latch]

Yes and im saying its flawed to do that inherently

[carmine sierra]

Labels help to shorthand a description of something, and you can detail it down further from there

[river cargo]

^

yeah the names are confusing but the general context is clear when you mention those names/labels

[fresh ginkgo]

That would be perfectly fine IF the concept of "game genres" wasn't so muddied by lumping together completely different TYPES of genre classification

[carmine sierra]

And again, going back to "this is the literal meaning of the words" leaves out decades of cultural context around the genre and what has come to define it

[blissful imp]

i haven't played it enough, but off of this idleon would be an mmo https://store.steampowered.com/app/1476970/IdleOn/

Steam

IdleOn

I'm LavaFlame2, the developer of IdleOn!
Come join me over at I host Free Gem Contests, post about Future Content, and we have 100,000+ members who love chatting and helping others through the game!…

[golden latch]

Descriptors do that but genre doesnt for things like games, unless you want to say elements are similar to others games but at that point you massively need to be in the know or describe the elements in question otherwise your muddying the description you used to clarify.

[carmine sierra]

And that's the point where detailing it down happens

[jolly sky]

You are derailing when the initial labelling has already been agreed and known about, and is already sound.

You're literally just adding an un-welcome colour to the already perfectly defined visible paint

[golden latch]

And at that point we are in agreement then

[carmine sierra]

It does work for things like games
It just usually takes describing a game with multiple genre labels, and further comparisons and details from there

[fresh ginkgo]

The problem isn't that "genre" is useless for games, it's that completely different sub-categories get treated as the same general thing

[jolly sky]

By saying "Dark Souls is an MMO" is already literally derailing

C'mon brother

[fresh ginkgo]

Like I said earlier; "FPS" and "Horror" are two entirely different TYPES of "Genre"

[carmine sierra]

And there are some games that do both
One is about the mechanical interaction, the other is about the themes and atmosphere

[golden latch]

That is the muddying i mentioned the ink smears then it comes to genres cause of many factors if you assume meaning cause people dont always assume the same things. Was my point

[carmine sierra]

And that was the entire point of the discussion
We were talking about those meanings

[fresh ginkgo]

That's...
Not the point of what I was saying.
Yes, games can obviously do both, because they are genres for two entirely different aspects of design.

[carmine sierra]

I fail to see the problem, then

[fresh ginkgo]

I'm trying to point out the flaw of people putting entirely distinct types of genre classification into a single bucket of "genre"

[jolly sky]

Then please discover, and disintguish the context of the conversation. I like you, but please don't be the "Diogenes" of the conversation when it's not welcome

[carmine sierra]

If the issue is that some genre descriptors refer to different aspects of the game, the solution is like I said
Use multiple genre labels to describe something

[golden latch]

Its bringing up a flaw in the criteria you stated cause trying to fit a check list criteria into a descriptor does that you are making the assumption that someone wont think that darksouls is a mmo based on your definition with no understanding of the genre

[jolly sky]

MMO's have been a clear and understood genre for decades at this point

[fresh ginkgo]

Games need to have the multiple classification categories acknowledged
Recognize that mechanical genres aren't the same as thematic genres aren't the same as structural genres.

[golden latch]

Genre is a in the know concept, descriptors however can bridge that gap much more easily

[carmine sierra]

You only acknowledged him saying in one post that he couldn't see other players, while ignoring the rest of the conversation around it involving actually interacting with those players in meaningful ways with gameplay

[carmine sierra]

And if I'm having a conversation with someone and they don't know what a genre means, I'll explain it to them
The same as if I had to describe any mechanical aspect of a game to someone who didn't already have a frame of reference

[jolly sky]

And if you'd read literally everything I'd typed and posted, then you wouldn't need to bring up flaws, because your flaws don't connect to the posts

PLease

stop

Stop being the Anti-argument to everything

[carmine sierra]

"A game where you're expected to retry and die, resetting the entire map which is typically procedurally generated, and upgrade yourself between runs using resources you've collected along the way" is a lot more of a mouthful than "roguelite"

[jolly sky]

Being a contrarian is not needed to every single discussion, and you don't need to be "that person"

[fresh ginkgo]

Roguelike vs roguelite; one of the dumbest debates in the internet era

most people play both of them for the exact same core appeal

[river cargo]

Now that is a genre where I never understood the difference lol

[golden latch]

I will cause i thought i was joining in on a good conversation about word usage and meaning to describe games im guessing i missed a specific topic point cause im not trying to be contrarian just trying to broaden the conversation was all 😊 sorry for the misunderstanding then have fun

[blissful imp]

1 is a like and the other is a lite

[carmine sierra]

Nah I get the distinction
Since the original Rogue didn't have any form of player improvement outside of knowledge, and that's what some people go for
Then there are more mixed ones like Risk of Rain 2, where the advancement aspect is adding more items to the RNG pool or unlocking new characters
And more heavy -lite ones like Rogue Legacy, where you're buying direct stat upgrades

It's a spectrum 😛

(Outer Wilds is a puzzle/exploration roguelike )

[fresh ginkgo]

But in all of the above, the core appeal is the same: a run-based experience where no two attempts are going to be the same

[waxen comet]

can you call it a roguelike tho

[fresh ginkgo]

https://tenor.com/view/midnight-the-cat-stopped-working-midnight-the-cat-cat-cat-meme-funny-cat-gif-81113296414293415

[waxen comet]

part of the roguelike is the randomly generated stuff

[carmine sierra]

It depends, I've seen some people who don't like roguelites and prefer to only be tested on their own knowledge and skills, rather than how many hours they've sunk into runs to upgrade their character

[fresh ginkgo]

You're gonna have to explain that one.

[waxen comet]

outer wilds doesnt have that

[jolly sky]

Look don't get me wrong, I like you, and I honestly like everyone I've interacting with here, but being a contrarian has its place. Sometimes it's genuinely humorous. Sometimes it's genuinely educational. But sometimes it can also be detrimental and annoying.

Knowing where that line lies is fine or thin, and most of the time you ride it well. In this case, you didn't.

[coarse python]

You're not wr... No, no you need randomized levels

[carmine sierra]

Not necessarily
It's typical of the genre, but it's not required

[waxen comet]

thats what the entire genre is about

[fresh ginkgo]

Again, the core appeal is still the run-based experience where no two attempts play out the same way

[blissful imp]

i've got an even dumber internet debate. the Sub vs Dub debate in Anime.

i've literally heard people say "Anyone that watches the dub version of an Anime isn't a true fan of Anime" which to me is fxcking stupid and weird to say.

[fresh ginkgo]

Fair point

[river cargo]

well atleast sub vs dub are two defined genres

[carmine sierra]

Really tho, I don't fully consider it a roguelike
It's just a fun mental flashbang to throw out sometimes

[river cargo]

i mean two defined forms of media consumption

[tender field]

What did I just walk into? Are we discussing video game genre and sub-genre?

[golden latch]

Like i said it wasnt being contrarian just adding to the conversation that it might be more then what was stated not dismissing your statements just noting there are flaws of using “in the know” descriptions and assuming the receiver will get it. based on what i knew the convo was about was how reliable game descriptions are. If i missed something i apologize for the misunderstanding

[waxen comet]

i cant in good faith consider outer wilds a roguelike because part of the genre is the procedural generation and randomness

[carmine sierra]

It does share a lot of the same aspects of roguelikes, in that the entire map resets from square one every time you fail a run, and the primary barrier to progression is your own knowledge and skills

[waxen comet]

outerwilds is a fixed world

youre just playing the same world over and over again

[blissful imp]

we've been going about MMO's which started with RS3, then went onto mmo's as a whole, then genre names.

[carmine sierra]

But not enough that I'd fully consider it one

[fresh ginkgo]

Dude that's just a timeloop game

[waxen comet]

the latter is more on the metroidbrainia genre

[carmine sierra]

Like I said, it shares aspects

[wheat sleet]

Legally a tomato is a fruit, but if you put tomatoes in my fruit salad you're not getting invited to my birthday party.

[carmine sierra]

Salsa

[golden latch]

Id love a topic points summary myself at this point

[fresh ginkgo]

Spicy fruitsalad

[wheat sleet]

Salsa just means sauce

[waxen comet]

scientifically fruit, culinarily vegetable

[golden latch]

Unless its a salsa then its fine as a fruit

[blissful imp]

https://tenor.com/view/right-in-front-of-my-salad-memes-you-serious-are-you-serious-gif-15277594

[fresh ginkgo]

Also scientifically a vegetable
-# (animal/vegetable/mineral/fungus)

[blissful imp]

i hate it when discord doesn't activate replying

[wheat sleet]

Technically a marinara sauce is salsa

[golden latch]

And would go great with a salad

[wheat sleet]

Ketchup is also salsa and a tomato sauce

[golden latch]

And a smoothie

And in the us a sports drink

[blissful imp]

thisx convo has gone off the rails

Are we on a crazy train

[jolly sky]

And I'm willing to admit there are flaws, but if you decide to compare the literal descriptions of an MMO (Wow, Maple Story, Guild Wars etc)

And then say "Well by that definition Dark Souls is an MMO by these metrics" Then it comes across as bad faith trolling and antagonstic to the conversation being had

[wheat sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/throw-up-dry-heave-vomit-gross-eww-gif-23254765

[golden latch]

I didn’t do it i think

[tender field]

What is this chat! First "is it a MMO", then "is it a rougelike". Now what is salasa

[wheat sleet]

EVERYONE LOVES FOOD

[fresh ginkgo]

Welcome to goblins

[blissful imp]

WELCOME TO THE PIRATESOFTWARE DISCORD SERVER

[river cargo]

The goblin community will goblin

[jolly sky]

Again no hate or any bad emotions aimed at you just....know when it's applicable yea?

[fresh ginkgo]

Honestly this entire ever-drifting is just "goblin diplomacy" in a nutshell

[wheat sleet]

Just using Thor's conspiracy theory strategy. You can't disagree with someone, but you can present another conspiracy theory to short-circuit their theory.

[fresh ginkgo]

Goblins arguing heatedly over something stupid
Slight tangential neutral point gets brought up
Goblins proceed to argue about the tangent.
Repeat indefinitely

[junior jasper]

Food! where food! Gimme some food!

[coarse python]

This is how politics works I think

[wheat sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-hmm-pepehmm-table-council-gif-16396395487368552941

[carmine sierra]

It's like the hundred-year soup in argument form

[jolly sky]

This is why I prefer VC's over text lmao, by a large margin. Sarcasm and funny digs are far easier to pick up. And also far more social

[blissful imp]

https://tenor.com/view/soup-store-gif-18760613

[carmine sierra]

There's always more soup to the hundred-year soup

[jolly sky]

I'll happily dive into a full VC and listen/interact with/be a part of a conversation

[carmine sierra]

If there ever isnt, add more stuff

[golden latch]

And i added my reasoning that blueprint/checklist descriptors like genre cause those moments, were those misunderstandings happen cause its a layman versus specialist issue thats inherent to the internet. Making sure its not a two scientists forgetting what basic peeps would knoe thinking people must know the basics of the mechanisms behind physics. trying to add this knowledge was the intent as leaving others out cause its specialist jargon i find really sad to see especially when trying to get others into a new game or genre they haven’t interacted with.

[fresh ginkgo]

I'm TTSing this when I reach 50k points.

Goblins are the 100-year soup of arguing. Step 1: Goblins argue over something pointless. Step 2: A neutral tangent appears. Step 3: Goblins begin arguing about the tangent. Step 4: Repeat indefinitely.

[wheat sleet]

I wonder if hunter's soup proves that food can be kept edible indefinitely if heated, or that the percentage of rotten food is so minimal that it's harmelss.

[carmine sierra]

Good

[blissful imp]

tbf. Since this was about MMO's this would've made more since in Actual pirates in VC.

i actually thought about bringing this up earlier.

[golden latch]

I thought it was im sorry i missed a part of the convo and caused the misunderstanding and made it feel like i was contrarian

[waxen comet]

i dont think you can have infinite lasting food

you can have it last a really long time

but not indefinitely

eventually the food will rot or break down at some point

which in turn makes them inedible

[golden latch]

And sadly in a text only pleb

[fresh ginkgo]

You've never heard of the "100-year soup", have you?

[wheat sleet]

But does that mean the 100 year soups are a small portion of harmless rot?

[golden latch]

Toriko

Century soup

[fresh ginkgo]

It's basically ship of theseus in a perpetual, and edible, form.

[waxen comet]

no but my knowledge of basic food spoilage would say that unless you added something that actually makes it 100% impervious to degradation, then nothing lasts forever

it can last a long time sure

but not forever

[fresh ginkgo]

Constantly heated, constantly draining, constantly being replenished with new ingredients

[waxen comet]

oh if its like that then

technically?????

if you keep putting stuff in

[fresh ginkgo]

never hitting zero

[waxen comet]

thats technically just another soup

[wheat sleet]

Theory is fine, but there are actual 100 year soups that (to my knowledge) don't make people sick when they eat it.

[carmine sierra]

It would break down and become part of the broth before it could rot, since the heat would kill the bacteria

[golden latch]

Maintained soup just like my pc data storage

[fresh ginkgo]

The pot is never empty, is the part that makes it interesting

[untold torrent]

Perpetual soup or Forever soup is a real thing.

[fresh ginkgo]

It's the same soup being replenished over and over and over, growing in flavor complexity

[waxen comet]

yea but at what point do you consider the soup still the same soup

[carmine sierra]

Okay Theseus

[fresh ginkgo]

That's what I said

[wheat sleet]

Some portion of that soup has to be rotten though. Maybe a fraction of a percentage, but it's never fully cleaned out.

[jolly sky]

And the exact back and forth over that topic would have likely been resolved in less than 5 minutes in a VC compared to the....30+ minutes that it was over text lmao

Text is inherently terrible at accurately making points because it's based on the frame of mind and emotional mindset of who reads it

But I get it

typing is easy

[carmine sierra]

Soup of Theseus is incredibly entertaining to me now

[waxen comet]

they should rename the soup to be Soup of Theseus

[fresh ginkgo]

Typing also leaves a record that can be referenced for later

[jolly sky]

But easy does not always equal good

[carmine sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/bromance-sig-curtis-alex-louis-armstrong-fullmetal-fma-gif-18194534

[jolly sky]

It can equal good, but in matters of person to person conversation it rarely is good

[golden latch]

< No mic

[wheat sleet]

I have a mic but prefer to just listen

Actually I have a better mic than Thor

[blissful imp]

Also there are people who don't feel comfortable speaking in VC

[coarse python]

I don't know what you people can do with my voice and I'm not going to test it

[golden latch]

(Mine is cause i will never keep i mic with my pc for security reasons and most peripherals for the same reason for decades now time are changing and im annoyed by it.)

[brisk sparrow]

Oh discord mobile is merging messages again. Cool

[jolly sky]

I get that too. I love to talk with people, and I like to hear other people speak. It's why I have been (against my will) been given the title of "The Talking Stick" in VC's because I don't want to let someone go unheard

[golden latch]

love when that happens irl

[jolly sky]

But as an upside it's interesting how often this experience happens.

When someone wants to interrupt someone speaking (because they have an opposing point) but when the original person has finished speaking, the opposition decides not speak up, because they've listened and the point they wanted to bring up was answered becuase the person was allowed to finish their point

[odd musk]

It's not rotting if you keep the temperature up to proper temperature. Things rot and spoil due to bacteria and mold. if bad things can't grow it doesn't rot. it might degrade and be less flavorful over time but it doesn't rot or spoil (as long as it's being kept at tempt and nothing solid is exposed to the air.) plus most of the stew is being eaten and replaced before it gets to that.

[odd musk]

and then there is me where I can never figure out when to speak up and yhe topic ends up changing 4 times and my head is still hanging onto something I wanted to say 6 topics ago.

[wintry coyote]

here you go.

[sand solstice]

Nice

[jolly sky]

And that's fair, and because of the nature of faceless VC's, it's difficult to know when someone wants to speak up in the moment, because well, faces are easier to literally see when someone wants to speak.

Which is why I like to make a mental list of people who interjected during someone speaking, and I will call on them because they clearly wanted to say something and I want them to have the floor to speak

[odd musk]

I have problems talking in real life too.

[gray fable]

i have a burning question regarding thor's latest short that might just be paranoia talking

[azure glen]

You can only get an answer if you actually ask the question

[gray fable]

is he in danger of getting copyright stricken for using the beyblade themesong?

[rapid scarab]

probably

they haven striken so far

[gray fable]

they might ignore it

sometimes videos with copywritten material just get ignored as long as they remain untouched

[wheat sleet]

Usually 30 seconds or less is fine per radio rules

[rapid scarab]

we are having storm again -.-

I also woke up to this xD https://open.spotify.com/track/14WYmNQWvR2TTWoRp8t9Ml?si=7UVQpBWpSSaeB7nEfhNi9w

[wicked schooner]

What a debate

[junior jasper]

Looks still nice

[blissful imp]

i still think its crazy he used that video i made and posted in here.

[blissful imp]

meanwhile over here its going to get very hot next week. https://youtu.be/JYRNVuXV4Yk

[junior jasper]

What is this

[blissful imp]

baby metal.

jpop band

well. not jpop, but japanese metal band

[rapid scarab]

and electric callboy is german I think