streamchat

[opaque raven]

The silly childish part is that it's not even on the EvilStreamer™ messages, it's on the community

[tender field]

See. How do they live like this. "Hanging out" in a streamer's discord you hate.

Just go to other gaming servers and have fun and stuff.

I know I'm trying to argue with logic and that means nothing to them ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[muted robin]

powerless people seeking power by being a hater instead of doing self improvement

[distant nebula]

Bwaaaa

[hollow gyro]

Go out and friendmaxx and smilebait

[winged knoll]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1216142638906998804/1231937582435274853/6P4G4_O1GI095KVU3C9.gif

[hollow gyro]

[mossy timber]

I've seen similar behavior with webcomics

Heck 4chan had self aware meme before about the guy that enjoys video games and the guy that trashes on everything

People do wild contradicting things

[winter sierra]

do i make a mod ticket for this#introductions message #introductions message

same over and over

4 times

[warm trench]

Speaking of hanging out in discord of those hated... What I don't understand are those that like to hang on in VC or anywhere else, clearly not only disagree with the HOST of this discord, but actively mock and disregaurd. Its like having a friend of a friend (or an someone soon to be ex-friend) come over to the house and then proceed to take a crap on the couch. I don't get it and find it disgusting.

[trim anvil]

I wouldn't even bother

[winter sierra]

mkay

[astral crypt]

Do they use a cam? If not, get one. I used to use my cell. Free app: DroidCam or something like that. You can @ me or DM for details

[distant nebula]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1255217799488606321/1306879842599309432/uDpr09A.gif

[astral crypt]

Thanks. Can make a ticket next time. This I handled from reading your post

[warm trench]

I screwed up a few things and now I have like 3 or 4 virtual droidcams stuck on my machine... hahah - took forever to fix that.

[opaque raven]

Can I make a fake ticket now just to test it? See if I'm doing it right
I never made one

[astral crypt]

oh sure. go for it

[winged knoll]

Can i report radio for Kobold like behavior

[opaque raven]

Be aware that I am now fully trained in the arts of Tickets 🔥

[winged knoll]

[broken lava]

next boss is jira

[warm trench]

Jenkiins

[proper phoenix]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/770281626365460543/1401458598600642670/antyheeeee_-_1951500855607533623_-_GIF_1.gif

[silent plank]

chat i miss thor-chan 😭

[late pond]

I saw some sign of life content from him.
Two "members first" shorts appeared on his YouTube account.

[silent plank]

mon dieu....

he's.... alibe....

[wheat sleet]

He makes sporadic daily appearances in discord

[silent plank]

how do you know that's really him?

it might've been Beans

or worse....

his wig.....

[jolly sky]

Nah we all know it's the Brain Slug

[silent plank]

mon dieu...

[wheat sleet]

The AI overlords are maintaining his online presence while learning to properly simulate his persona for a full replacement.

[idle hill]

Thor chan?

https://tenor.com/view/thor-chan-vr-cat-girl-cutie-not-cute-gif-17587314

[karmic valley]

We all know Thor-Chan is Thor's Vtuber persona

[hasty grail]

https://youtu.be/OgxdAaCwKMg

[analog imp]

Saved

[subtle gate]

https://tenor.com/view/ppmeltdown-twitch-pp-pepe-meltdown-gif-19468715

[analog imp]

Didn’t ironmouse get Thor to promise to be a vtuber for a bit?

[subtle gate]

I heard about that don't know if anything will come of it though

[idle hill]

Idk
Thor chan is her own vtuber

[analog imp]

The question is, ferret vtuber?

I’d say there is the option now for the caricature, but it would need to be rigged

Rigging is by far the hardest part of making a 2d or 3D vtuber, on top of all the emotes and face tracking blendshapes

[subtle gate]

what is the animator that does the satire stuff could they do the rigging

I feel like we're kinda lined up for that to be an April fools thing

[analog imp]

I was thinking of MC’s but I don’t know if they can do that sort of rigging

[idle hill]

Laimu?

[idle hill]

Oh god not meatcanyon doing thor's vtuber 😭

[analog imp]

Just leave out the body horror stuff

[analog imp]

Limes?

[idle hill]

https://tenor.com/view/laimu-vtuber-live-reaction-limealicious-gif-13713361445235420592

[analog imp]

Cute green ferret vtuber

Yeeee

I love her smile the best

[subtle gate]

I also liked the PNG streamer someone showed off here that was cool and funny

[analog imp]

You can do a lot with very little. Some think you gotta have all the lip tracking and eyetracking and brow tracking, but it is actually fun and interesting to work around a limitation

Vtubing is puppeteering of the 21st century

I absolutely love puppeteering

[outer cobalt]

thor is already a youtuber, he might as well roleplay as a banana

[analog imp]

I mean, he was pretty appealing in that banana long lemon suit

[idle hill]

Guys, we already know Thor is already a vtuber. He's just a super high quality, 3D, realistic style vtuber

[analog imp]

8k hhd av1 encoded

[subtle gate]

AI controlled

[analog imp]

Totally not AI, he has legs, we seen them when h-

[idle hill]

Thor doesn't have legs, silly

[subtle gate]

https://tenor.com/view/the-letter-h-spinning-man-letter-gif-24584770

[subtle gate]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-yeah-hell-gif-18853369

[analog imp]

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[subtle gate]

you wanted it

[idle hill]

Here's sound

[analog imp]

Cue the repeated E-e-e-e-e

[warm trench]

That's my tinnitus - eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[analog imp]

windows crash ding

[subtle gate]

https://youtu.be/JaQldhr_ojU?si=3-WZ4LhpvG6Uysxe

[analog imp]

Wake up samurai!

[idle hill]

YIP-
P-
Bluescreen

[warm trench]

11.5khz in one ear, 9khz in the other

[analog imp]

I remember back in dos and windows 3.1 “abort? Retry? Fail?”

Can’t remember if it was still in 95

[subtle gate]

https://tenor.com/view/kronk-emperors-new-groove-its-all-coming-together-gif-12813012

[opal bronze]

https://tenor.com/view/polly-o-cheese-nothing-nuttin-pizza-gif-5817644302252767462

[high canyon]

Thor is a V-tuber, those legs are CGI

[exotic forge]

I asked him something recent that even AI wouldn't have in their latest large language model yet

[broken lava]

is it why kids love cinnamon toast crunch?

[blissful imp]

i personally don't like Cinnamon Toast crunch. i've only had it in milk once, but it was like eating wet mini sponges

[ocean agate]

if you eat it right away it stays crunchy, but it does get soggy fast

[broken lava]

its one of my favs, but givin the choice i would pick cinnamon life

[subtle gate]

https://tenor.com/view/stare-iron-giant-bomb-general-animation-gif-17652668

[forest glacier]

It’s funny how since Chatterino is always open in the background, it serves as my first-in-line detection method for internet problems XD nationwide Spectrun outage BTW

[tender field]

okay, my health is low just need to enter holy mount...

[wicked schooner]

Get wormed

[rain widget]

You got wormed, someone else started Rune Scape and Meatball was screaming. One, some or all of these have caused the internet outage I'm sure

[solemn echo]

Meatball has eaten up the internet

[coarse python]

So they aren't a red/black 4/2?

[wicked schooner]

Idk i stole this from someone

[fathom stone]

At least Khronos will wear wigs

Oh wait thats freaking photoshopped...

Im going to bed

[worthy ivy]

someone should send him one, natural british politeness will kick in and he'll have to wear it just so as not to seem ungrateful 😆

[wheat sleet]

If someone does do that, get one that would be appropriate for a lawyer to wear

[winged knoll]

I thought only Judge wear wigs

[wheat sleet]

I'm pretty sure all the court officials in the past had to wear wigs

[still quiver]

Does Thor have a come back date yet? Hope he's enjoying his vacation and sticking off net.

[terse pelican]

No exact date given, Just a one to two week vacation

[broken lava]

until morale improves #general_chat message

[winged knoll]

Morales up

[tender field]

I love perfectly cut memes

[wicked schooner]

Here's another one for ya

[tender field]

Not my kind of humor, but sill made me laugh

[waxen comet]

heres one too

[wicked schooner]

Nice one

[idle hill]

This man has potential as an anime VA, SOMEONE TRAIN THIS MAN

[opaque raven]

30yo Filipino boy

[winged knoll]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/920152399941861457/1168171367636676618/1142914651835875400.gif

[earnest cove]

Man i wish my friend's mental health spiralling doesn't happen while I was asleep, and the people that i spoke about my said friend in this chat is also not asleep or busy with their own real life

Because this friend is getting very very irritating with her social drama spilling over to me

And I'm not sure how to handle it anymore

[opaque raven]

Oh, so your friend is having a social media drama and it's worried that it might affect you as well?

Not sure if I got this right

[frosty socket]

no, sounds more like mental issue piling up, then spilling out onto Social Media, which causes drama, whcih then proceeds to spill into their life

[flat moat]

you need guidance on how to deal with your friend?

[earnest cove]

I'll screenshot without name

For clarification

She's been venting to us

This person, Kat, is so powerful just her being happy ruined my friend's day immediately

It's been frequent for days

They were good friends but then broke up

[flat moat]

ok so it's just a matter of unresolved feelings?

[earnest cove]

Yeah

This was yesterday

This is how much power

[flat moat]

sounds like she should just block her

[broken lava]

maybe you can fix her

[flat moat]

hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil

[idle hill]

idk what their relationship was but if it affects them that badly they should just block whoever this "Kat" is

[earnest cove]

I don't know if blocking was enough because my friend gets resentful when the people she likes associate with this all powerful Kat

[idle hill]

especially if they dont wanna be around Kat anymore

[earnest cove]

So even on Twitter if this Kat person is getting praise from non Kats my friend gets ultra upset too

And that of course is vented on us

I don't think the problem can be solved by blocking. It's a bandaid at least

This Kat person i don't know much, has immense amount of power

Just the mere mention of this person's name is enough

[flat moat]

the past is the past and their association with each other has ended. They have no business with each other. I get jealousy, I get feeling inadequate but feeling that someone else's success or reach is an attack on her is ridiculous.

[idle hill]

Well, I don't think it'll help them, but.
I've been super pissed at Shylily since she tried to cancel Sinder. Seems to have worked, even.
I blocked Lily on all platforms, and anyone she had managed to gaslight into believing her side of the story.
I'm still blocking artists drawing Shylily to this day.
I don't want to see her, but I would have to if I kept watching vtubers in that space - so I left.

[earnest cove]

I thought my friend would get better after she touched grass (went for a walk) and she reported feeling better until that happened while i was asleep

[idle hill]

The problem is they're giving Kat too much power over themselves. So much so it's negatively affecting them.

[flat moat]

You are tired of talking about this issue with her, have you let her know that you don't want to continue talking about it? if the both of you are just going to repeat prior conversations, it's going to get real tiring real quick

[earnest cove]

In this case i don't want my friend to quit making her game because of Kat because that's just way too much power and control given to a relative stranger

[idle hill]

She doesn't have to quit making her game though
She can keep making her game in another space

[earnest cove]

The English visual novel circle is so slall they'll eventually run into each other

[idle hill]

Or she can stay in the same space, and have to deal with being around Kat

It's really up to her

[trim anvil]

this sounds like a really frustrating situation to be in

[earnest cove]

This would be my ideal because otherwise my friend must quit game dev completely

[idle hill]

They don't have to

That's what I'm saying

[trim anvil]

I'm going to assume your friend does know it would be unreasonable to expect this Kat person to leave the spaces she wants to be in

[earnest cove]

Knowing her, she wishes Kat just left

But no kat ain't leaving

[trim anvil]

so it's kind of a case of having to share spaces with someone whose presence she can't stand.

[earnest cove]

Correct

[trim anvil]

And I'm going to also assume there's no chance for reconciliation here, or at the very least you're not in a position where you could aid in that in any way

[idle hill]

They can keep making their game regardless of being around Kat
Now it's sounding like YOU are giving Kat too much power, saying that the space she's present in is the only way for your friend to continue game dev, when the reality is, it's not

Your friend can just make the game they want, and build their own community

They have the ability to do that

[earnest cove]

No no i mean if i give her the same advice you said about shylily it meant scorched earth

And i don't want my friend to go scorched earth

[earnest cove]

The last time she did that, her fans invited Kat into my friend's game dev space. Again

Because they're friends with Kat

And of course my friend got upset with that

[idle hill]

Then that's on your friend to say Kat is not welcome in that space

[trim anvil]

... that sounds like some shitty friends unless she wasn't upfront with the situation

[earnest cove]

The drama happened privately so the fans and friends are ignorant of the beef

[idle hill]

If it's your friend's community, their space, they have every right to remove someone that makes them uncomfortable

[trim anvil]

but

[stray kindle]

I have noticed pirate hasn’t streamed in awhile. Does anyone know what’s wrong?

[idle hill]

It doesn't matter what their friends think

[idle hill]

#news

[earnest cove]

He's resting

[idle hill]

He's on vacation

[trim anvil]

okay, but this Kat person surely should've known joining her space was a faux pas

and she did it anyway?

That sounds a bit rude

[earnest cove]

Actually i don't know if Kat knows at all

[trim anvil]

oh god.

Please don't tell me your friend is bottling this up towards her

[frosty socket]

oh, damnit

[trim anvil]

how can you hold so much contempt towards someone and not let them know in the slightest?

[frosty socket]

hate it when that happens

https://tenor.com/view/star-trek-patrick-stewart-captain-jean-luc-picard-face-palm-disappointed-gif-4780258

[opaque raven]

I'm trying to understand the whole story

[idle hill]

Look
Your friend needs to stand her ground
And you need to stop saying it's impossible for her to make her game without interacting with the people that keep bringing Kat back
If it's her space, then she has the right to tell her friends that Kat is not allowed due to some negative experiences in the past

If they want to keep bringing Kat back, she should be allowed to remove them too

[frosty socket]

she can say "My Reasons for not allowing her are personal, but STRONG"

[winged knoll]

Something like working with an ex in the same company, but you don’t want to leave the company and it’s extremely uncomfortable seeing them

[idle hill]

I've left THREE communities due to differences in opinion and interests, but I'm still an artist who loves playing singleplayer video games
Don't tell me your friend can't do the same for their visual novel

[earnest cove]

My friend (Batter just for easier explanation) and Kat were friends. Kat helped Batter a lot with game dev. Kat also had to emotionally support Batter many times because not only game dev is hard but her home life is abusive

About 1.5 years later Kat said that staying with Batter is too emotionally exhausting and toxic so Kat said goodbye.

This is at the same time some person named Crow whispered to everyone in the their game dev clique to block Batter because one day Batter discovered she was blocked by almost everyone. Based on descriptions by others, Kat knows what Crow did. May even be on Crow's side in the end.

That took a while to type out

[trim anvil]

so, I hate to say this, but

[idle hill]

and now it's starting to come together

[trim anvil]

what's your friend still doing in that space then?

she should get the frick out of Dodge

[earnest cove]

Every single person is asking the same question

Ok so evolution of drama

Roblox

My friend escaped into roblox

Not long after guess who did the roblox fandom hire as their writer?

Kat

[frosty socket]

okay, that was merely coincidence

or at least, can be seen as such

[earnest cove]

And when she saw that Kat was the writer for one of her favourite story game modes she can't bear playing that anymore

Yeah that's coincidence. It's however shows that the circle is very small

Very very small

[trim anvil]

she should just find a new circle far away from Kat then

[idle hill]

So tell her to leave that community and do her own thing. It's draining her emotionally just to be there ffs
Again, don't fixate on the idea that "the VN community is small, this is the only way"
There is ALWAYS an audience to be had somewhere

She doesn't HAVE to stick to Roblox Lore

She can branch off on her own

[earnest cove]

She likes amazing digital circus

Guess who also likes the roblox game Kat is helping to write for

Grooseworks, the creator of amazing digital circus. Now that made digital circus feel tained.

[frosty socket]

THAT... is just personal problem, at that point, I'm sorry

[opaque raven]

Ye but how much of that bottled feeling is actually known by the other party
That's the part I'm trying to understand

[idle hill]

Once again, giving too much power and attention to Kat

She needs to stop, and branch off, end of story

[earnest cove]

I don't think running away will help because there's always somebody tangentially liking the works Kat is involved is ruining it for her

[idle hill]

SHE NEEDS TO IGNORE KAT.

That's the entire thing.

Get the hell away from Kat if it's so draining to be around her

[opaque raven]

Or even how much of that power was voluntarily and even artificially created. Some people tend to think of the worse scenarios when they don't know what the other one is thinking

[earnest cove]

I know I've been telling her that but she's not able tooooo and that's giving me a headache

[frosty socket]

she can't, Kat being "successful" makes her feel liek a "Failure", when she thinks Kat should be the "Failure"

[boreal flower]

sounds like a definite need to return to therapy then

[frosty socket]

best way i can put it

[winged knoll]

Forgive my rudeness but how old is your friend?

[earnest cove]

30

[trim anvil]

There are plenty spaces in the internet that should be far away from Kat, as I don't think I've ever crossed paths with her

[frosty socket]

you'd be surprised how long such drama can follow someone

[earnest cove]

About there can't remember exact age

[idle hill]

I'm not going to say anything more because that's it, ignore Kat, your friend should be able to figure it out

[opaque raven]

For how long has this been going?

[winged knoll]

I guess she’s already know what she should do, she just doesn’t have the motivation to do so

[earnest cove]

Hmmm it's been some time. Maybe a year or two

[opaque raven]

Oh

[violet furnace]

It sounds like your friend (Batter?) and Kat used to be close, and Kat distanced themselves. Then someone else (Crow) got your friend blocked by the rest of their circle, and your friend is upset with Kat because Kat may have known about it? It sounds like a lot of misplaced anger there, too, based on the limited information. I'm sorry, but your friend sounds absolutely exhausting.

[earnest cove]

Our advice to her had been to "ignore, move on, leave that room" and last i heard she said she would leave that room until today i discovered that Batter didn't leave

I'm like ughhhhhhh

[opaque raven]

Hmmm ignoring and leaving the room is somewhat fine but your friend will have to learn how to deal with this at some point

Very short term solution just to put the high emotions in check

[idle hill]

You know what I did when I kept going back to a space that was emotionally draining to me?
I personally asked the moderators to permanently ban me.

[trim anvil]

no offense but I'm starting to see how this Kat person might consider that your friend is emotionally exhausting and toxic.

[frosty socket]

I have a cat enforcing snuggles atm, so typing will be slow af for a minute or so

[winged knoll]

https://tenor.com/view/big-hug-gif-26546176639434304

[jolly sky]

Honestly it sounds like Kat made the right decision to distance themselves.

There's an adage where if you try to go too far in helping someone who's sinking, you risk being pulled under as well.

[earnest cove]

I've dealt with Batter for 10 years and you don't know how many times i was tempted to kick and block her

If i think correctly, i think Batter believes that Kat and Vrow colluded behind her back to tell other game devs to block her. They had done the same to others

[opaque raven]

Not knowing what really happened can make someone people think about the worst possible scenarios in their heads

[trim anvil]

which is even more reason for her to distance herself from all that stuff

if she's paranoid, then she should stay away from the source of her paranoia. And if she isn't and they are out to get her, that's even more reason to stay away.

[opaque raven]

I'm....pending to Kat's side on this

[trim anvil]

I'd rather not take any sides, just advice that Batter stays the frick away from that whole community

because this can't be good for her either

sure, isolation isn't great, but it should be better than this.

[boreal flower]

and definitely return to therapy

they can offer more advice

[winged knoll]

Are you physically close to Batter? Take her out often, seems like she need grasses

[opaque raven]

Is counseling the same as therapy?

[trim anvil]

I think so?

[violet furnace]

Yeah.. I've had a friend like Batter, and in an extremely similar situation that involved game dev, unresolved feelings, and a mutual friend. Stepping away from the situation that is causing distress and working with a therapist are really the best ways forward here.

[winged knoll]

Depends

[earnest cove]

No we live far away

[arctic sierra]

any of you guys know when and if there will be a twitch stream anytime soon?

[earnest cove]

And i don't trust myself to not snap at her because i have a history of blowing up like a volcano towards her over drama like this

[winged knoll]

That’s unfortunate, but my only suggestion is to go out more often, even try to go gym or some places with more people, will help with her case

[earnest cove]

#news not sure if it's already 1 into the two weeks

[winged knoll]

Thor has not told us a date yet, probably next week

[opaque raven]

I'm strongly assuming none of those people are part of this server, right?

[winged knoll]

Batter is

[earnest cove]

I honestly don't know this server is huge

[arctic sierra]

k thx

[idle hill]

We don't, Thor'll come back when he's done with his vacation
Turn on stream pings if you want to be notified when he goes live

[winged knoll]

You are welcome

[earnest cove]

See the place is so big i didn't know she's still here because she supported skg

[winged knoll]

It’s ok to support skg and don’t hate Thor

[earnest cove]

And stopped calling Thor as Thor and instead Jason

[winged knoll]

It’s not mutually exclusive

[frosty socket]

supporting SKG isn't the same as Harrassing thor and his community

[winged knoll]

Oh

[opaque raven]

Hm

[winged knoll]

Pain

Haha

[earnest cove]

Nah i thought she lost respect at Thor because nowadays she calls him Jason (which is also more effort to write)

[frosty socket]

Jason may be his first name, but he hasn't gone by it, by both his words, and his dad's, since he was...13?

[winged knoll]

It’s ok, the community is still awesome, it’s not like we are all war goblins

[frosty socket]

still waiting for the Kobold and goblin chats to appear

[winged knoll]

Just minor details, Thor probably won’t mind people calling him by any name

[opaque raven]

Anyway. The only somewhat clear thing on the whole story is that your friend still don't know how to deal with her feelings and they are clearly hurting themselves more and more.
I honestly don't know how therapy/counseling works but that's probably the best for now

[winged knoll]

[boreal flower]

just so long as she doesn't do something with this new source of contempt that might get her bapped

[outer cobalt]

are people using gamedev as therapy?

[boreal flower]

some do

[earnest cove]

It's just that with the drama people have been convinced that Thor is not his real name and they must now call him Jason.

[boreal flower]

as like a coping mechanism or a way to work through issues by 'changing' how things went

[frosty socket]

and do so quite well, in fact

[trim anvil]

well, Jason is definitely not his preferred name

[outer cobalt]

dunno, i think its their way of protesting by semi-ddoxing thor in some way or form

[trim anvil]

so I assume it's just people being assholes about it

which seems stupid.

[flat moat]

yeah a lot of people do that. it's not a rule but then we know if you're either a viewer or someone that came in because of other reasons

[winged knoll]

Let’s call him Hall-chan like the Japanese

[frosty socket]

it's public info about his name being Jason Thor Hall, not Jason "Thor" Hall

[outer cobalt]

it is. they dont care

[boreal flower]

same logic as dead namers

[frosty socket]

oh, i know, even mentioned it in a twitter thread once, but, like i said then, "I Have to at least try"

[winged knoll]

Mag!
Wan!
Kenobi!

[astral crypt]

today is end of week 1, iirc

[winged knoll]

[astral crypt]

[boreal flower]

hiyo mag :D

[earnest cove]

Aah so one more weel

[flat moat]

hate brigades gotta have a gotcha, even if it's not actually a gotcha

[trim anvil]

hey Mag

[earnest cove]

And hello mods

[astral crypt]

oui! hello, hello

[winged knoll]

[earnest cove]

About some years ago my own mother told me that i need to cut Batter out of my life

[frosty socket]

huh?

[trim anvil]

honest question, are you keeping her in your life because of pity, or because you're worried about how it might affect her?

[idle hill]

mag

[earnest cove]

So Kat is not baseless

[opaque raven]

Mag

[astral crypt]

Mag

[wheat sleet]

Mag

[wicked schooner]

Hello Mag 👋

[astral crypt]

[winged knoll]

Maggie

[wicked schooner]

I have brought bread 🍞🍞

[astral crypt]

'bout to use all my hello emotes today

[jolly sky]

https://tenor.com/view/jim-carrey-salute-gif-27701630

[astral crypt]

oh! bread!

[jolly sky]

Mag

[astral crypt]

ty!

[earnest cove]

My friend and husband believe if o kick batter out she'll get worse as she'll also lose the only friend group who actually properly talk to her. And I found out through another person that Batter actually respects me so that's surprising

[frosty socket]

so a tiny bit of "Both"?

[trim anvil]

so... that's a yes?

[earnest cove]

More like both

[frosty socket]

https://tenor.com/view/the-road-to-el-dorado-both-both-is-good-gif-8304204

[trim anvil]

that's... not good.

But I'm going to guess you're a grown-ass adult and know how to handle this

[jolly sky]

I'm sorry if you liked Castle Crashers, but you are no longer allowed to play it

[trim anvil]

so I won't try to butt in and tell you what to do

[wheat sleet]

Batter seems like either a drama queen or might be mentally unstable and needs professional help. No way to tell.

[astral crypt]

Oooooh bread

[frosty socket]

already established: Mental issues

[wicked schooner]

-# shhhh... Dont tell thor about it

[frosty socket]

putting it very simply, anyways

[jolly sky]

I just saw a Pizza Tower reaction, and yes. There are already a large amount of Peppino Creations in Castle Crashers now;

[wheat sleet]

It can only be a guess until a real professional does a consult to diagnose. There's only so much a layman can do.

[frosty socket]

anyways, time to fire up my S/NES Emulator and start my playthrough of all the Final Fantasies up through VI, then Steam will track my progress from 7 onwards

[flat moat]

you don't need to kick her out but you need to set a boundary so that the quality of life for both of you improves

if she truly respects you, she will respect your wishes

[frosty socket]

they've been to therapy for this, like, rigorously scheduled appointments, iirc

[flat moat]

if the issue is not talked about, the more likely it's going to be forgotten. I know this from prior experience with professional devs

[winged knoll]

[opaque raven]

Oh ye, Mag, I have a personal mod question ☀️
Can I dm or is there another better way to ask?

[astral crypt]

DM is fine with me

[jolly sky]

This again ties back to;

"It's easy to drown along with the person you are trying to save"

This is why a professional is needed. Lifeguards for actual drowning, Therapists for emotional/mental drowning

[earnest cove]

Unfortunately being a adult doesn't guarantee things will go well because if being an adult means being able to handle oneself Batter wouldn't be having this problem at all (she's 30 years old)

[astral crypt]

If anyone needs/wants help with setting boundaries, I recommend this gem https://a.co/d/bKun8et

[trim anvil]

I know, but this is just my excuse to not butt in more than I'd be welcome and not get too deep into someone else's personal issues

[earnest cove]

Aah ok

That's fine

You've helped good enough

[winged knoll]

I do agree with everyone that if you aren’t well equipped to deal with emotional issues like this, you should let the professionals handle

But still i would advice convincing your friend to go out more for a bit, would help fill some void

[winged knoll]

Lemme book mark this

[outer cobalt]

depends tbrh, there used to be a time when being an adult is tough because society doesnt coddle you

now is a way different time

[astral crypt]

one of the best books I've read on boundaries. enjoy

[earnest cove]

Even in tougher times, it doesn't mean they can handle it emotionally. Otherwise we won't have timeless stories of petty drama from all levels of society

[outer cobalt]

i mean the human mind is more flexible than we give it credit for. people do adapt to hard times, and petty drama is great during peace times when theres nothing else to squabble about

[frosty socket]

to a degree, yes

[earnest cove]

Cliques and social sabotage is as old as the tale of time, in good times and in bad times.

[wheat sleet]

Swiss cheese brain confirms that

[frosty socket]

too much stress for too long causes... issues

and not just mental/emotional

Heart issues, blood pressure

[opaque raven]

But sometimes I suppose the person in the middle of the turmoil of their own creating doesn't know how bad things are, and being upset is all they know

[jolly sky]

And unfortunately, with our brains still being in Tribe/Village mode, the Internet has unfortunately made it WAY easier to have these petty squabbles, due to us now having global access to an almost infinite amount of Tribes and Villages

[astral crypt]

"Being upset is all they know," might want this book https://a.co/d/aeFs0ki It's for any trauma imo. I'm on chapter 2. Immensely helpful and informative. Also, set up in small doses so an overwhelmed busy person, such as myself, can digest this

[earnest cove]

but that book is for sexual trauma

[astral crypt]

As I said, it's for any trauma

[jolly sky]

We'd been a part of localised Villages/Tribes for 10's of thousands of years, and now in less than 100 years, we now are able to access them on a global scale, and our brains just aren't built for that. Some people can handle it, some people can't.

[opaque raven]

It's about the technique, not necessarily the theme

[earnest cove]

ah

[astral crypt]

The book gives info about brain set up and things after trauma. I read it and started crying cuz I thought I was just dumb or broken. Nope! It's trauma

As the foster care teacher taught us, "Trauma is emotional pain."

And as a society we really don't do a good job of teaching that or of helping people heal

[earnest cove]

i'm starting a therapist session for my own because i apparently has an extremely traumatic childhood

and adfulthood

[winged knoll]

and oldhood

[astral crypt]

Right?! omg, like, who knew? I didn't. Therapy is great. I started in my early 20's with varrying degrees of success.

I like oldhood

[winged knoll]

[earnest cove]

It was not normal to have your book thrown out of class because you answered a question wrong for example (i thought i was)

[astral crypt]

Seeee???? It's a great book

[violet furnace]

Well I certainly wasn't expecting to order books because of a discord server, but here we are. My wallet is annoyed, but it'll get over it.

[earnest cove]

It's also not normal for my music teacher boss who watched me grow up from 10 years old to humiliate me in front of my own students 12 years later because I cannot speak Mandarin.

[idle hill]

Hey mag these books are available for free right

I havent clicked yet bc im on the move

[boreal flower]

maybe at a library? the first one was an amazon link -i bookmarked-

[astral crypt]

I hope at the library!

[opaque raven]

I was watching Return of the Jedi (for the first time) yesterday with GenChat and we had a whole conversation about the classic idea of "I can't go back after the things I did". How shame and etc can make you turn a penny into a dime

[astral crypt]

I got them from amazon cuz I wanted to write in them

ye I liked the amazon links but, obv you don't need to get them there

[boreal flower]

ye both are amazon links, lemme bookmark this one too

[earnest cove]

i am sharing them to my husband so we can keep a lookout

[boreal flower]

they can serve as reminders of the books so you can search for them at libraries

[astral crypt]

ye I love my library. kiddo and I go there often

my home isn't big enough for all the books I want

[wheat sleet]

I get kindle versions of books now for the portability

Take your entire library to bed, no need to get up

[astral crypt]

gosh YES

[violet furnace]

I used to do that, then it negatively impacted my sleep because if I get into reading something, I'm just not gonna sleep.

[opaque raven]

I have a shelf just for my book backlog. Whenever I'm taking a long train ride or 7hr flight I grab a random one of those and take with me

[frosty socket]

I'd be too tempted to just grab the lego shark, lol

[wheat sleet]

I use reading as a natural sedative. Make sure to charge the phone in another room though

[earnest cove]

I gtg eat now thanks guys for talking with me about this issue

[winged knoll]

ba bai, have a nice lunch

[earnest cove]

my conclusion is that I really can't do the helping, other than telling the basics of like, blocking and therapy

[violet furnace]

Totally fair. I switched to doing a few nonograms, stuff like that to help me wind down each night. I have to keep the phone nearby because on-call is just a delight.

[opaque raven]

It came with this cute little crab 🦀

[winged knoll]

and go outside moar

[idle hill]

I haven't been to a library in years

[astral crypt]

I had several years when I didn't make it there and man, so glad I'm going back

[nova bough]

i love libby. loan ebooks through my library decently often with it

[astral crypt]

yes!!

[opaque raven]

On the library I have in my town you can not only rent books but also games, musical instruments, legos, etc

[winged knoll]

hello

[nova bough]

hallo

[opaque raven]

I teach piano on some weekends for example and I just book a sound isolated room on the library (free ofc) and meet the students there

[nova bough]

unrelated, i discovered last night how much of a luxury AC is. cause mine was out. thankfully im getting it fixed now

[idle hill]

I've only ever been to two in my entire life, the second of which held regular events (that I never went to )

[frosty socket]

i'm guessing... somewhere Southern US?

[opaque raven]

I'm just glad that summer is over and we are back to 8°c here

[frosty socket]

whatchu MEAN

[opaque raven]

We reached crazy things like 22~24

[frosty socket]

Summer ain't feckin' OVER

still ahve False Fall and "Suprise, it's summer again!"

[nova bough]

yea. texas

[frosty socket]

ah, borderline lethal without A/C

[idle hill]

This is why I always say Winter is better than Summer
You can put on as many layers as you want but it's only publicly acceptable to take off so many

[frosty socket]

go much further west, and it is lethal

[wheat sleet]

Here, the population starts to decrease with power outages in the summer. A/C is a necessity

[violet furnace]

Oh no. Texas here, too, and our AC has gone out a couple of times this year already.

[opaque raven]

I'm already having proper fall, soft rain, cold nights and finally more thn 4hrs of darkness per day

[frosty socket]

oh, you WAAAY Norht

[wheat sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/texas-gif-24404828

[opaque raven]

On peak summer here we end up with 48hrs of sun

[nova bough]

yeah. high today is 98ish

last night was around 80

[frosty socket]

tolerable temps, with lower humidity

[idle hill]

It's confirmed, Radio lives in the north pole

[opaque raven]

Close tho

[nova bough]

65% humidity atm

[frosty socket]

...actually... could be worse

[nova bough]

i mean yeah

[opaque raven]

north end of Denmark ❄️

[nova bough]

i could live in Galveston or Mexico

[frosty socket]

poor Louisiana

[opaque raven]

Kattegat

[frosty socket]

anywhere along hte Mihihippi

[broken lava]

which room is to talk about the arg?

[frosty socket]

#heartbound-arg

[broken lava]

what tag do i need for that room? the heart bound ones?

[frosty socket]

yeeep

anyways, back to remembering which of my emulators works on playing S/NES games

[wicked schooner]

Y'all are lucky to have 4 seasons. My country only has 2
Drought season and flood season

[opaque raven]

Oh

[nova bough]

mine has summer and not summer

[opaque raven]

My friends in Brazil say the same
They have summer and summer with rain

[frosty socket]

tbf... they are in the Tropics

[idle hill]

Highly recommend Cali, Valle del Cauca, Colombia if you're looking to get away from seasons altogether
constant 70-80°F weather, barely any difference from Colorado's best weather
There's wet and dry seasons, that's about it
The only thing I'd recommend is to get a place that is locked up and off the ground
Oh, and learn Latin American Spanish

[wicked schooner]

If you live in the cities, just raining a bit too long and there's a flash flood

[frosty socket]

honestly, that last bit is good advice in the US in general, anyways, mostly so you know what they're actually calling you

[idle hill]

It's a rainforest btw so if you dont like bugs (like me), be prepared

[idle hill]

Honestly being off the ground is a must have anywhere you go

[wicked schooner]

Mosquitoes are a biiiiich

[idle hill]

You're telling me

[wicked schooner]

Especially in my country, we have to be careful of dengue fever

[idle hill]

I have to spray myself down before I go out bc mosquitos LOVE me

and now I'm having to do it to keep yellow jackets away

[wicked schooner]

I thought yellow jackets only attack if you disturb their nest or something

[idle hill]

It was after the Monster energy drink in my hand

(lotta sugar)

[frosty socket]

I was about to say "nah, Yellowjackets are ornery little bastards" btu that's Hornets, ain't it?

[nova bough]

paper wasps are little bastards

[idle hill]

I don't drink zero sugar/diet drinks because aspartame and that other artificial sweetener suck

[nova bough]

i like xylitol as a sweetener, but not a ton

[idle hill]

Only if you swat at them, which I almost did to get the thing away

It was coming at my face bc I had just sipped some monster

I grew up around them, have a constant fear of flying/biting/stinging bugs
They would nest on the boards my dad would leave against the fence in the backyard

[frosty socket]

i have a mild allergy to yellow jackets and wasps

the Yellow Jacket alergy is a bit mroe severe than the Wasp one, tho

[warm trench]

Yellow jackets do indeed attack if you disturb their nest.. Or walk near them, or have any perfume on, or look cross eyed at them, or talk about them a block over, or think about them, or go to bed early, or wake up late, or have coffee, definately if you murder one of them.

[frosty socket]

got stung in the leg by both at different times in my life, the yellowjacket sting made a good... thrid of my lower leg swell rather painfully

the wasp just had a basebal sized area swell up

[wicked schooner]

I used to watch those pest control videos of people taking down yellow jackets nests and feeding them to their chickens

[idle hill]

I cant do anything about them because they're in a public space
I'd carry a frying pan to swat them and make a good thonk but I dont wanna get swarmed
Idk where they're nesting

[nova bough]

chickens are amazing little dinosaurs

[frosty socket]

i take a bit of vicious pleasure in watching someone make a metal casting of an underground wasp/hornet/yellowjacket nest

[idle hill]

I read online on how to prevent them from being around people and one of the points was "dont leave garbage cans outside in places where people are"
there's a garbage can right next to the damn bus stop

[warm trench]

My tux kitteh has no fear

[nova bough]

im guessing a little growling for you kitties is normal. looks like how my boys play (minus the growling)

[frosty socket]

kittens growl, because they see it as a Fight, the adult doesn't growl, or does smol growling, because htey see it as play/discipline

you'll know if the elder cat gets tired of the Kitten's Shit, because you'll hear a THUNK of a kitten head and body hitting ground with a bit more force than normal, then adult cat jogging off to hide from kitten for peace

the number of times my cats did exactly that

the younger cat thinks she's the boss, until the elder cat goes "Okay, time to teach you a lesson, Child"

[jolly sky]

https://tenor.com/view/gotcha-body-slam-cats-hugs-ive-missed-you-gif-12249242

Prime example of that lmao

[wicked schooner]

CAT WWE

[frosty socket]

yeeeep

[opaque raven]

Brazil covers a LOT of lines
Greenwich and tropic related

Brazil is HUGE

[frosty socket]

mhm

[warm trench]

Gray tabby (Zula) is about 6 years old, she's acting like the mom with Zelda. Zelda gets to be - too much and eventually Zula starts getting vocal.

[opaque raven]

V TRIGGER!!!!

And erm...what was the name of that move that mysterio does? That he grabs the ropes and woosh

619!!

-# Is that it?

Warcraft 2 looks old ofc but seems super fun, I'm watching Joeyray playing it

Might give Warcraft 3 a change one day

[analog imp]

Not gonna lie, I laughed so hard, i am saving this to my personal collection

[worthy ivy]

og warcraft is great - not sure if it was 2 or 3 I played? I wanna say 3

[rigid bane]

Hi y’all, I was told that stream chat sort of functions as a General 2 but slower, so I was hoping to ask y’all for advice.

Background

I work as an instructor at a coding education center. Yesterday I was on reddit and happened across a post on r/education, where apparently some living piece of garbage solicited “help” from to figure out how their students are using ai software to cheat. One keen eyed redditor realized that this person was not actually a teacher, but the developer of one such software, and that they were essentially crowdsourcing ways to get around detection software.

This really upset me. So much so that I spent my entire drive home coming up with regulations that would criminalize this kind of behavior. I’ve written down some of my thoughts into a proposal that I want to forward to my representatives and senator. I think that this community would have a lot of valuable feedback to offer on it, and would really appreciate any criticisms or advice that you can offer

(Just a heads up though I’m on a break at work so I might not be able to immediately respond until this evening)

Proposal

Intentionally interfering with a child’s right to an education, especially in a way that allows one to profit off the child, takes advantage of and harms children. AI cheating software must be outlawed to protect children and their right to an education. The overlap between AI education software and cheating software is currently too great to easily differentiate between the two. Because ai cheating software harms children, the following regulations and associated criminal penalties should therefore fall under the category of child endangerment laws. I propose the following regulations:

• To distinguish between what is an educational aid vs. cheating software, all educational aids must come with a built in kill switch that triggers when it detects a standardized UI element that remote education software should be required to display on quizzes, tests, exams, and any assignment that a teacher deems needs this protection.
• It should be criminal to distribute AI educational aid software that lack this safeguard
• It should be criminal to distribute software that intentionally disables or interferes with the display, detection, or recognition of the UI element that triggers the safeguard
• It should be illegal (but not necessarily criminal) for end users to, on their own behalf, tamper with software that interacts with the safeguard element in a way that disables the kill switch, and criminal for an end user to do so on behalf of others, instruct others how to do so, or publish guides on how an end user can do so for themselves.

End Proposal

I specifically framed it as a child safety issue because I felt it would get more response, though the legislation would also aid in tackling academic dishonesty and cheating in higher education

[wheat sleet]

Seems at least politics adjacent at best. I'm not sure this is the right place to discuss it.

[umbral gazelle]

Its per definition politics. Its just not drama politics people are used to.

[rigid bane]

Ah, so even if it’s not partisan politics it still violates server rules?

[wheat sleet]

Yeah. No politics.

[umbral gazelle]

So instead of portraying it as a political issue of law giving

[rigid bane]

My apologies. Any recommendations for places that I could seek this sort of feedback then?

[umbral gazelle]

we could try to figure out why people use AI to cheat in school

and why its so easy

[rigid bane]

That would definitely be helpful as well!

[wheat sleet]

You can't use AI if you don't have access to the internet. Back when we used to handwrite things and couldn't even use a calculator on a math test, there was only physical cheating.

[umbral gazelle]

First is. How are they using AI to cheat? Are they to submit a report on a subject which is then graded?

[rigid bane]

Yeah, a big part of this specifically affects at home assignments or remote students

[opaque raven]

You can break it down on some smaller topics, remove the politics and we can for sure freely talk about that ☀️

[umbral gazelle]

So pro tip home assignments and homework is effectively useless. Unless a student wants homework it has shown no effect on increasing grades. Rather not giving homework reduces stress and improves exam scores. See finland studies

[rigid bane]

The reddit guy’s software was geared toward evading detection so it could be used by remote students on proctored exams, and looking at the software’s subreddit it seems that he took to heart the advice he was unwittingly given in r/education

[umbral gazelle]

If you want to improve the teaching and learning part of school stop doing homework the human brain only has about 4 hours of effective learning per day

All schooling should be done in class. Think about what you want to teach and how you think teaching it is best for students

Make the students want to come learn.

dont make it a punishment

[rigid bane]

All great advice, a lot of which I was aware of. While I can implement it in my own teaching endeavors, it doesn’t necessarily enable me to have an impact outside of my own students (and even there I’m limited, because I’m not one of their in school teachers and wouldn’t have a way to collaborate with them in regard to their approach to teaching)

I guess that’s why I wanted to reach out to my legislators, since I can’t really think of another way to have that widespread impact

I just felt so pissed off at that shitheel taking advantage of fellow educators to better harm students

[umbral gazelle]

The most important thing is. Dont fight your students. If they want to use AI make that apart of the class. Generate an AI report on the subject then dissect it point our errors or what is good.

[late bane]

Why not develop methods to trick the AI if students try using it?.

[wheat sleet]

Have students develop methods to seed an AI with bad training data. That would be fun.

[rigid bane]

Definitely something I’d be interested in doing, though it’s not my area of expertise. Awesome idea to involve my students in the endeavor!

[wheat sleet]

...have them cook AI recipes.

[umbral gazelle]

Thats a good one

I can understand why students use AI

its easy

its rewarding

Why spend an entire weekend writing something an AI can do with a few prompts

[rigid bane]

Unfortunately not something I’d be able to do at the center, and I don’t know how parents would feel about me essentially encouraging them to waste ingredients at home. But definitely still a great example!

[umbral gazelle]

@rigid bane You can also always go over than AI is a temporary tool its not gonna stay forever its not a viable business model and is always in the red every year. And if they would rather learn the manual skills now or suffer the consequences and be punished when chatGPT goes bankrupt https://www.wheresyoured.at/wheres-the-money/

[rigid bane]

Holy crud I’m only a minute in but this is a fantastic article. I’m definitely keeping this in my back pocket!

[umbral gazelle]

You can also go over how AI is environmentally damaging https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/ai-has-environmental-problem-heres-what-world-can-do-about

[winged knoll]

Hmm i’m disagree with this, i’m Asian and doing homework help a lot with patterns recognition

For example if you wanna learn how to play guitar, learning 4 hours per week isn’t enough, you need to put in hours to practice too

@opaque raven do you like pink color like mine

[umbral gazelle]

Hmmm i think 4 hours a week would lead you to get a pretty decent skill level of a guitar

you wouldnt become overly proficient

but you would be able to play

Also when i say 4 hours of day thats 4 hours of taking in information.

[winged knoll]

[umbral gazelle]

i am unsure how relatable it is to physical training and muscle memory

[winged knoll]

I should learn to play guitar

[subtle gate]

what kind of games

[winged knoll]

Which game?

Ser Kobo it’s a yes and no question

[subtle gate]

I love games

[opaque raven]

But...you are not pink, you are purple

[subtle gate]

but most of my games are single player

[winged knoll]

Ok purple

[opaque raven]

Ye, it's super beautiful

[winged knoll]

We just need Thor to stream

[subtle gate]

I just need to know what game @fallen spoke has in common with me

[opaque raven]

I strongly second this ☀️
When teaching piano or calculus for example it's great for them to first learn a pattern and thn slowly change the pattern. It's very hard to do this during class ofc so homework is really good

It is ofc different when dealing with right-sided oriented studies

[winged knoll]

I can’t believe a kobold agreeing with me

[umbral gazelle]

Im mostly just refering to finland and how no homework lead to a slight increase in general exam scores

[winged knoll]

I assume the test were adjusted as well

But i can be wrong

[umbral gazelle]

Nope same tests.

[winged knoll]

[umbral gazelle]

iirc

[winged knoll]

I mean compared to other country, like standard SAT test or something

[opaque raven]

Ye but that's the thing about scandi and the north
A super full classroom here is like 15 people, we can actually pay attention to each student and they also are not buried in exams all the time

[winged knoll]

We Asians are forced to study hard so i wouldn’t even imagine doing 4 hours of learning daily kek

During middle school i did like 60-80 hours of classes per week

[trim anvil]

yikes

[winged knoll]

[umbral gazelle]

Effective learning :P not saying its impossible to learn more its just massively reduced effectiveness

[winged knoll]

7am to 5pm from monday to Saturday
Then extra curriculum from 6pm to 10pm

[opaque raven]

Do you still have the article at hand? I can take a look

[umbral gazelle]

I need to ask. Are you okay

[winged knoll]

Ah this i agree

[winged knoll]

I don’t have a memorable childhood

But im doing ok in life

[umbral gazelle]

not at hand gimme a bit to dig through all the AI slop...

[winged knoll]

Tbf i would make my child studies less if i have one

Having no memorable childhood kinda sux ngl

[opaque raven]

No rush at all

[opaque raven]

We are actually trying to get pregnant and I've been running crazy reading about parenthood and all that. I'm 450% worried about this all the time

[winged knoll]

You will be a good kobold parent

Still not as superior as a goblin parent

[opaque raven]

I...I'm trying to change this but sadly my fiancee is a big fan of elves and goblins...

[winged knoll]

[opaque raven]

She loves with a passion the design of the goblins from Clash Royale

[winged knoll]

[opaque raven]

And she got a little figure of one carrying a giant bomb

[winged knoll]

She’s cool

[opaque raven]

Or clash of clans, idk the difference

This is the thing she tries to convince me it's adorable

[fathom stone]

Don't fall for it

don't...its a trap

[wheat sleet]

You should give her some goblin slayer manga to read

https://tenor.com/view/the-grinch-evil-smile-creepy-smile-gif-7618321

[umbral gazelle]

@opaque raven https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_Student_Assessment
Might have recalled incorrectly instead its despite not having homework they rank equally or higher than countries with homework even its Scandinavian cousins

im going to continue to look for what i recalled was that they stopped giving homework made no change

[winged knoll]

[umbral gazelle]

but i can have recalled incorrectly

[opaque raven]

Oh DAMN, this looks crazy cool

[wheat sleet]

It's amazing, but also very NSFW in areas.

[indigo wadi]

Goblin Slayer is brutal.

Same with Berserk

[opaque raven]

I'm reading that
And also the hyperlinked articles
I also found quite a few tags on Google scholar

This is particular interesting. Ignore the title but there was a case where the UK for example got a bad result and modified a couple of things trying to mirror what was good for other countries. The next results were good but this was perceived as bad since it became meta-oriented

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-25299445

[opaque raven]

I need to continue watching Berserk, I stopped when the found a giant inside a building and everyone was crazy shocked about it

Episode...5 or 4, idr

[muted robin]

homework not actually being guaranteed effective has been verified in US contexts as well tho, so while the scandinavian model of education is better/best, the lack of homework isn't a good thing only in that situation

I haven't had easy access to educational research papers since i graduated but it was a topic of some discussion in at least a few of my pedagogy/art of teaching classes

[indigo wadi]

Homework is an excuse for Teachers to pawn work off onto students.

[gray scroll]

Hey sorry off topic, not trying to stir anything, I was just wondering where Thor's vods have gone, I wanted to watch some blue prince playthrough but I can't seem to find it or any of his streams

[opaque raven]

I'm trying to remember but I don't think we ever had mandatory homework or anything similar, it's a weird concept for me to think about

[lyric venture]

I think he purged them to avoid idiots from making out of context clips

[opaque raven]

The problem with comparing scandi with other countries is that things are so different that I find it hard to compare. Usually we have studies comparing Norway with Sweden and that's fine but Denmark with Brazil is just crazy

[gray scroll]

Oh actually? That's unfortunate

[indigo wadi]

Probably for the best.

[opaque raven]

our grading system goes from -3 to 12 ☀️

[bronze summit]

damn, I liked watching old streams on days off or when a game is being played that I don’t care for

[indigo wadi]

I wonder if that'll continue when Thor comes back.

[muted robin]

i assure you that it's not because we still have to grade that 💀

[wheat sleet]

IMO vods should be temporarily all disabled so drama farmers have to sit there and watch the stream

[muted robin]

homework is something that teachers have to give to look busy and assure administrators with 0 educational degrees/experience that we're actually doing our jobs, because they're convinced that we spend 40-50 hours a week doing nothing until proven otherwise

[gray scroll]

I hope they are just privated and not deleted, I liked watching his puzzle game streams

[indigo wadi]

Those are projects. Those are different. I'm talking about "complete pages 3-6" and there's no follow up.

[broken lava]

i went to a high school where you graded your own tests

[indigo wadi]

VoDs are deleted after 60 days anyways.

[gray scroll]

The YouTube ones too?

[wheat sleet]

Yt vods are forever

[bronze summit]

unless deleted by the user/owner

[jolly sky]

But they are also cut off at the 11 hour 55 minute mark

Not a problem for most streamers, but Thor often goes over

[muted robin]

nope. i assure you that 99% of teachers do not want to give out any more homework than is strictly required

[opaque raven]

Oh, I'm curious now about some speedruns that can last for 13+hrs

[muted robin]

you overestimate how much free time teachers have to be giving out worksheets to do for nothing except our own amusement

[jolly sky]

If they're saved as VoDs, they end at 11:55

[bronze summit]

I wonder if putting the youtube vids behind a paywall would fix or significantly reduce the farming issue

[opaque raven]

I have no clue about your experiences but damn...you have some harsh opinions about teachers

[jolly sky]

They would have to be recorded, and then uploaded directly if the runner wants the whole video to be there

[muted robin]

no, i have harsh opinions about people's opinions of teachers

[opaque raven]

I'm taking a look at what they do. I mean, I'm a mod on speedrun.com and this was never brought up as a problem so clearly on those specific games/runs they do something especial, maybe save somewhere else

[muted robin]

my brief time in the public school system was awful and annoying and i spent at least half of my time doing things that aligned 0% with actual best teaching practices and were solely to placate administrators and their stupid performance metrics that actively made my job harder to do

like. there was literally a policy where we had to assign them at least one daily grade per week so guess what, even if there was nothing really to grade them on or they were in the middle of some long multi-week project, too bad you have to pull some random assignment out of your butt or randomly assign a step of the project to be a daily grade

so that you can show that you're "rigorous" and keeping students "active"

[opaque raven]

Seems like after changes on repository policies on twitch and YouTube on 2021 (idk what changed tho) the long runs are maintained in a very specific googledrive. Not all mods accept this tho (seems like you can't watch on browser so the verifier needs to download it), so on some channels they accept segmented videos of 5hrs and very precisely checks the connection between them (in game clocks and fps for example)

Seems like the changes on 2021 on twitch side was about highlight and on YouTube was about upload quality and video sizes in gb

[jolly sky]

I believe the issue that caused Youtube putting a limit on VoD length was purely, the Lofi-Girl streams. They lasted so long, that when it went down one time, Youtube's servers crippled under the strain of several 100 hours processing that into a VoD

[opaque raven]

But what's the difference between that one and any of the other 24/7 live videos?

I have no idea how old Lofi girl is

Maybe it's been running for a WHILE

[jolly sky]

It has been, and its 24/7 stream got taken down after 20,000 hours live

Which then Youtube's servers had to make that into a VoD which uh

Yea

Didn't go well

Hellscape, please you can just react to 1 message

[flint sinew]

[winged knoll]

Oh no a mod

Are you interested in bread mister mod

I sleep now babai chat

[opaque raven]

Oh sweet lord, that thing is old old

[muted robin]

chat i'm so tired (not of the aforementioned teaching subject)

[idle hill]

Speedrunners (At least, I know Spiff does), also record their speedrun so the full VOD is already saved
You can record and stream at the same time

[opaque raven]

🔥

[vagrant ingot]

Ayo is it just me or are Thor's past streams in VOD sections on Twitch unavailable?

[muted robin]

i'm not it/tech support at my job but i feel like half or more of what i do is loggin into people's shit for them or going "did you see the error on the screen? did you try following the instructions it gave you to fix the error?"

is this what it's like to be in IT every day

how are there this many adults (and i'm not talking like zoomers/gen alpha, i'm talking gen x and milennials) that like. can't follow basic troubleshooting for computer or web issues

[idle hill]

"it broked"
"did you follow the instructions to fix the break"
"no, I should try that"
under breath "you should try that before calling"

[muted robin]

i feel like i spend more time helping people with their silly log in issues or computer issues than i do my actual job. unfortunately the former is kind of part of my job too so 😭

[quartz sonnet]

More or less. Depends what kind of IT you're doing. You're petty pretty much describing a Help Desk IT role.

[muted robin]

it's more like, "do you have any idea how much time and stress could have been saved here if you had tried for 5 minutes to solve this problem on your own instead of taking my time when i have stuff to be doing too"

[forest nymph]

They havent really interracted with it as much as us

To us its something simple

To them it's the matrix

[muted robin]

that or it's some weird workplace terror where people are afraid to do anything w/o manager permission bc they think they'll be fired but like

[forest nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/matrix-online-gif-9800727944098993984

[opaque raven]

Oh ye for sure, streamers are one of the chillest cases for saving vods and etc but we need to cover all types of ground. A lot of people just record their runs with obs or game center and end up with a local 13+hrs video, what now? That's the thing I was looking into

[forest nymph]

this is me

[muted robin]

this is a job where people are required to have master's degrees to be hired, are you telling me you ppl got through six years of university doing research and stuff and you never acquired the skills to go "oh, a problem, let me try to do some problem solving and basic research queries to figure out what the solution is"

[idle hill]

cant upload and link multiple yt videos?

[forest nymph]

Oh you talking about in a job environment?

[muted robin]

can you even read the text on the screen saying "your account [wrong email i told them not to use] doesn't have access to this service" and maybe switch to [correct email i told you to use]

[idle hill]

I think YT also lets you upload VODs over 24hrs

[jolly sky]

Uploading a saved video file, length isn't an issue with Youtube

[forest nymph]

I'd guess that they just wanna make sure they don't do anything wrong and call the department that will solve the issue

[jolly sky]

It's specifically Livestreams VoDs over 12 hours that they've put a limit on

[muted robin]

rant over i'm just i wouldn't survive being in IT i swear

[opaque raven]

And on speedrun.com we have general rules but you can ofc make the local exceptions for certain game. Cropping your video can lead to people manipulating frames, segmenting the run itself and other things, not all communities and mods would agree with this

[idle hill]

Yes, I understand the speedrunning rules
I'm jist wondering why you'd take a live over an uploaded recording
Because that's a YT issue, nothing to do with the streamer

[muted robin]

clearly i need to stop being harder on myself over how little i know about computers bc when i have computer/laptop issues i'm over here like "damn i can't believe the most complex thing i know how to do is copy paste a few basic fixes into windows power shell"

and some ppl can't even tell the difference between opening gmail in the browser vs the desktop app

[exotic forge]

Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good

[idle hill]

Just tell them to upload the VOD of their speedrun and if they dont have it, they'll have to run again
Sorry but that's YT's fault
The streamer would have to run again, this time recording the run and uploading it back to some VODs channel

[opaque raven]

So you don't have to keep a local huge file I guess. Aside from ofc streaming to others

[forest nymph]

There's a desktop app???

[idle hill]

upload and delete simple

[opaque raven]

Oooohh you should see the hardware limitations that people have

[forest nymph]

Clouds are very convenient

[opaque raven]

For the uploader yes but for checkers and mods not so much. In many cases we can't open the file on the browser and you have to download it. It's not a huge deal with one or two but consider the sheer amount of runs peer week that a checker needs to see

[forest nymph]

Ah yea having to download it would be very difficult

[muted robin]

but yeah having to deal with people's random minor computer issues has gotten to the point that i preemptively ask them to "send me a screenshot of the error you get" just so that when they say "i tried to log in" i can say "no you didn't" bc i already know they're going to get it wrong before they even try to do it

(i do not actually say "no you didn't" bc that's rude)

[opaque raven]

There was a case on Metal Slug 2 iirc where someone gave permission to download the file from its Google drive...but it also gave access to their whole drive, with private documents, photos, even passport scans

[exotic forge]

I get that feeling as I deal with it a lot too. I like to think that being able to deal with and maneuver these types of situations are the biggest reasons why my specific skillset isn't going to be replaced by AI that soon

[muted robin]

the more i anticipate problems in advance the less bothered i am when they do happen

unfortunately when dealing with other people you have to remember that your own standards/knowledge of what would be a problem for you are not the same as for everyone else

but if you give instructions with contingency plans for what the common mistakes/complications are, then people are more likely to know how to figure it out on their own, and then your time can be reserved for the ppl who, by god, actually have an IT problem they need to email someone about

[sullen roost]

uhhh, did all the Livestreams on youtube just disappear?

[blissful imp]

that would mean Thor deleted every single livestream vod

[jolly sky]

Or made them private

[blissful imp]

that's the only way that tab disappears on youtube

[blissful imp]

probably

[sullen roost]

was watching old Blockgame stream and it was suddenly unavailable

[thorny sigil]

Why did he do that?

[jolly sky]

Yes, same for Twitch. The only assumption I have is to prevent drama farmer llama's from using his content out of context for their "content"

Bare in mind that is simply an assumption.

[opaque raven]

Specially while he is on vacation and can't answer to any drama allegation directly, I suppose

[jolly sky]

And I don't believe in my own assumption myself, merely just a possible explanation

[sullen roost]

oh jeez, yeah everything form the last month is gone from twitch

[thorny sigil]

Bros a poet

[serene valley]

yea it'd be weird, it'd be making an ass out of you and yourself, doesn't work

[sullen roost]

welp.... anyone have suggestions for another work background stream? >_>

[jolly sky]

If you like Game Grumps, there's a 24/7 compilation stream on Twitch, there's also Midnight Sumo

[blissful imp]

i will say. Twitch auto deletes stream vods automatically

[sullen roost]

can't do twitch at work sadly

[blissful imp]

youtube doesn't tho.

on youtube streams literally become videos. like they straight up get pushed into the video Algo

[jolly sky]

I don't really watch any Youtube streams, so I'm of zero help lmao. If you want long-ish form videos, can also recommend Tested. Adam Savage from Mythbusters doing stuff

https://www.youtube.com/@tested/videos

[gentle mortar]

uhh, not streams but I can recommend Majuular, he makes 2+ hours retrospectives on old games. Pretty awesome for 2nd and 1st monitor content
https://www.youtube.com/@Majuular/videos

[jolly sky]

Oh that also reminded me of YourFavouriteSon, also retrospectives;

https://www.youtube.com/@YourFavoriteSon1/videos

And Whitelight;

https://www.youtube.com/@Whitelight/videos

[flint sinew]

is this......advertising /j

[blissful imp]

Raycevick as well is very good https://www.youtube.com/@Raycevick/videos

[jolly sky]

Yup another good one

[jolly sky]

Advertise this /j

[flint sinew]

[gentle mortar]

Cant forget Josh Strife Hayes and his MMO series. https://www.youtube.com/@JoshStrifeHayes

[exotic forge]

You think Thor did this and not youtube? I'm just asking as I'm not aware

[opaque raven]

I have no clue.
If it was voluntary I honestly think it was a good thing tho

[jolly sky]

Twitch VoDs are gone too. Again, all we can do is assume, which isn't a healthy thing to actually believe in. Just speculation

[blissful imp]

the livestream section on youtube is missing. We already went over this.

[exotic forge]

Sorry i was / still am working so I'm just popping in and out while my code is compiling/deploying

[frosty socket]

honestly, i genuinely wouldn''t be surprised if it was youtube, instead of Thor

[high canyon]

The sloptubers are literally scrubbing over every second of VOD footage to find nonsense, its better the vods are put to rest instead of fueling nonsense

[blissful imp]

it damn sure wasn't youtube. why would they remove hundreads of Stream vods? by their rules Thors channel would be banned/deleted.

[exotic forge]

They're scraping this discord too

[jolly sky]

Yes they are

Can confirm at least one of them are here

[frosty socket]

who?

[jolly sky]

Pathetic behaviour

[high canyon]

if someone was filming into your living room, would you close the blinds? I would; ergo delete or hide the vods

[frosty socket]

soi knowwho to hit "block" on?

[jolly sky]

I shall not name them. They're also under an alt.

[frosty socket]

ah

[nova bough]

these people are not ok

[blissful imp]

well by that login

[exotic forge]

I called out someone for a suspicious question that ended up being featured in one of Quin's video but other members here disagreed with my actions so I'll just keep these suspiciouns to myself. Again, these are just suspicions

[frosty socket]

ah

[sharp tree]

I don't follow all the drama cause I actually work for a living. What's been happening?

[blissful imp]

the internet isn't ok

[high canyon]

I hope Thor takes another whole week off ❤️ he deserves it

[jolly sky]

It would take an age to summarise. Take a look in #news for a kind of summary.

[sullen roost]

Sorry, had to go kick a server. thanks for the reccs!

[nova bough]

https://tenor.com/view/touch-grass-insult-gamer-get-good-bambamheat-gif-12775336740692508361

internet needs to touch grass, generally

[exotic forge]

I will but not right now. Still working. Just waiting for my code to deploy so I can do even more unit testing

[frosty socket]

oh?

[exotic forge]

Not untrue

[high canyon]

At this point, I dont think touching grass will be enough, therapy is required

[blissful imp]

the only thing i can say is that those drama sloptube channels have moved away from Thor and are making videos on Mutahar(SomeOrdinaryGamers), but that's a whole other new thing of "drama" that's started.

[sullen roost]

Autoscaling server couldn't access a service when it spun up so couldn't be accessed. Just a quick boot to the head and the next one should work

provisioning script just pooped the bed due to a random network hiccup (probably)

maybe it's a worse problem! we'll find out soon!
yaaaay computers

[nova bough]

have a picture of my kittys beans

[sullen roost]

Good beans

[high canyon]

Pretty kitty

[thick ledge]

Ironically mutahar was one of the people making drama reacts about him, and turns out mutahar has his issues lil

Lol

[late pond]

If Thor's content is disappearing, there are several possible explanations, and I'm not sure if I like any of them.

This post of his and the thing it is responding to could suggest he might be on the fence about returning to streaming.
#general_chat message
I hope I'm wrong and just spouting nonsense.

[muted robin]

bro thor's whole business including the ferret rescue runs on streaming revenue of course he's not going to stop streaming

[jolly sky]

I think putting any belief into your own, or anyone elses assumptions is a bad move

[muted robin]

he's taking a break, assume nothing more or less until told otherwise by the man

[late pond]

I'm not putting any belief into my own assumption. Just expressing a personal worry.

[lyric venture]

It hink its a worry you dont need to have.

[jolly sky]

I think worrying over a Futurama gif reply is a stretch to say the least

[lyric venture]

He hasn't had time off like this in a long while, and god knows he deserves it

[late pond]

I'm not a native meme speaker.

Thanks for the dose of sanity.

[distant rapids]

Yeah I'm chillin. Not believing/worrying about stuff before proof is actually the most stress free way to live 😎 🍹

[blissful imp]

Considering he has people to pay, he'll be back.

Should be tonight

[late pond]

He should take the second week too.

I just had 2 weeks of vacation myself. I didn't feel like I was on break until the second had already started.

And I have been through less

[blissful imp]

just saying. he said he was taking a week off on Tuesday. his typical days off are wednesday and thursday. his plan was probably to return on Friday anyways.

[nova bough]

1-2 weeks

[jolly sky]

If you're not including Wed and Thurs, its not even been a week yet

[winter wave]

Yeah I think you’re jumping to conclusions @late pond

[flint sinew]

what we talking about?

[blissful imp]

in that case Saturday

Saturday will be a week

[hazy storm]

It could also be "week" in a general sense of around that amount of time give or take a few days depending on how he feels

Coz you know. Not like he had to file paperwork with us

[fathom stone]

I think its predicting when Thor will come back...?

[late pond]

He has to file paperwork with his boss. Who is the CEO of Pirate Software. Who is him.

[flint sinew]

oh

[hazy storm]

The perks of being at the top of your own bureaucracy?

[late pond]

The good thing about having a lean organisation is that you don't have a department of redundancy department.

[idle hill]

(Bit late but) yeah, I've seen the potatoes some people have, laggy to the point of 1 frame per minute

Still, those runs are invalid, because you can't tell what's going on there either

And if they don't have the disc space for a speedrun video, that's kinda on them

I believe my recordings were between 2-5gb/hr

Will have to check later

regardless, it's not really speedrun.com's or its moderators' responsibility to ensure everyone can play their game smoothly or be able to hold a video on their harddrive
all they need is a link to a YT video or some other specific media hosting site to see the full run

If Youtube doesnt let them save the entire run in a VOD, they should bring that up with Youtube

[ebon drift]

Guys did Thor atomize all the vods on both twitch and youtube?
If so thats a huge shame

I sometimes rewatch some of his older streams

[high canyon]

Sometimes a fresh start is good

[ebon drift]

Debatable

[high canyon]

less for the slop farmers to clip out of context

[vivid maple]

oh slop farmers like pegasus and quin?

[ivory schooner]

Streisand my dear, dont hide the knives, it'll make people suspicious

[vivid maple]

also heard from one of thors old blizzard coworkers that he was a walking hr nightmare

i think thor knows who it is

[subtle gate]

only walking HR nightmares say that of their comrades

[vivid maple]

something tells me she was the walking hr nightmare

[subtle gate]

although...

"I'm something of a walking HR nightmare myself"

[indigo wadi]

why tonight?

[blissful imp]

i saw that on lsf. don't know how true it is and don't really care as that was many years ago. people change over time.

[vivid maple]

she also called him lazy

[indigo wadi]

Unsure about youtube vods

[vivid maple]

oh i saw it on a youtube video from nogla

[blissful imp]

the youtube vods are gone. we've gone over this if you scroll up

[indigo wadi]

I've been out and about. I'm not gonna read over 3 hours worth of conversation

[earnest cove]

huh the vods really are gone

[vivid maple]

well he doesnt want slop channels taking him out of context anymore

[blissful imp]

basically the live section is completely gone. only way this is possible is if the channel owner either deletes or privates all of them

[vivid maple]

and if i were thor i would send a cease and desist to quin

[bronze summit]

when clicking some of the youtube vods it says the video is private, others say unavailable so... idk

[idle hill]

he probably privated them all to be completely honest

[winter sierra]

did some video against thor just get released?

[idle hill]

another? wouldnt be surprised

[winter sierra]

ferret stream got a bunch in a row

[blissful imp]

Are there multiple nogla's? i only know of the irish gamer guy on youtube.

[indigo wadi]

I was more referring to I'm not sure about the 60 day VoD removal that twitch has

[jolly sky]

A bunch of what in a row?

[vivid maple]

idk but i wouldnt be surprised if quin uploaded a video in the past day

[vivid maple]

if you are talking about daithenogla then thats who

[winter sierra]

people spamming rude stuff

[blissful imp]

my guess is the ferret vods

but twitch removes vods automatically

[jolly sky]

As in, people in the Ferret stream chat?

[vivid maple]

thats what im guessing dan

[blissful imp]

ohhhh...

[winter sierra]

yea

matt got them

[vivid maple]

i dont even watch the ferret streams much of the time cause of work

[jolly sky]

Imagine being so pathetic that you feel the need to enter a Discord server or livestream chat just to be disruptive

[blissful imp]

unemployment has become a big issue in America.

[winter sierra]

from most of the hate ive seen, people tend to say "go after thor, not the ferrets" so even the assholes dont stoop to the level of the horrible people who say bad things about the ferret rescue

[ivory schooner]

they've made fun of the dead ones in thors face so i dont know how accurate that is

[winter sierra]

yes, but thats the worst of them

[vivid maple]

yeah i havent been paying much attention to the trolls lately

[blissful imp]

that's the redditors from lsf doing that. Could be people from 4chan tbf. that would be up there ally

[winter sierra]

like often under things against the rescue they are like "hey dont go after the ferrets"

its odd

[ember ember]

Quintheo released his supposedly final video on Thor and is now setting his drama farming hands on Mutahar

[idle hill]

Legit they're attacking the ferrets to get at Thor
that's what it is

[blissful imp]

same i haven't seen anything about thor lately minus the meatcanyon video and that supposed former female co-worker.

[winter sierra]

ah

[ember ember]

I give it about a few days before he switches sides again

[ivory schooner]

parasite cosplay be like:

[idle hill]

I think that supposed coworker was either lying out her ass about Thor, or also lying about being his superior, to be completely honest
There's no way she wouldn't have said anything to her superiors about him

[vivid maple]

oh wow moving from one target to another cause he cant create any original content. how original doing videos on the hot topic and spitting them out like hes a bot posting ai content

[blissful imp]

Actually all of them are. i've seen many videos on the whole mutahar situation the last few days.

All from a video saying muta "lied about being an Engineer"

[jolly sky]

I wonder if he'll use a different Alt to get into Mutahars Discord, or the same one he uses here

[winter sierra]

he has an alt here?

[idle hill]

Of course he would

[winter sierra]

WAIT smart plan lets get a bot that bans anyone in his server from this server

[vivid maple]

from what heard its really hard to get into mutas private server

[rain sigil]

The Internet has a new Brittney Spears to throw abuse at. Sorry Mutahar 🤷‍♂️

[jolly sky]

Yes, he does. He searched the AnsweredTTS channel live on stream (without revealing the name) and his main account also actually used to be here, and only posted one post, in #advertising

[subtle gate]

his followers have come in sporadically and got banned immediately for saying "your really stupid"

[flint sinew]

anyone else love cooking your food properly only for your leftovers to taste a bit off then you see it was still not cooked even after putting it back in the oven? yeah me too

[jolly sky]

Nooooooo

Thats rough

[blissful imp]

there are many of them here hiding in the shadows taking screenshots.

[winter sierra]

oof

[flint sinew]

threw that out so whatever

[jolly sky]

https://tenor.com/view/my-first-girlfriend-turned-into-the-moon-thats-rough-that-rough-buddy-avatar-avatar-the-last-airbender-gif-5710468

[winter sierra]

well when that happens i always have cold rice to comfort me

[forest glacier]

The concern over logs and screenshots of chat is silly, 10,000% Agent Smith up in here with this many people. The scene where he multiplies too.

[vivid maple]

i betcha 10:1 those alts all have the same ip address

[subtle gate]

you ever start some water to boil then walk away, forget you're cooking as you go about playing some game then smell something burning come out to a scorched pan with no water cause it all cooked away?

[vivid maple]

dont tell me you did that

[subtle gate]

https://tenor.com/view/indeed-tealc-stargate-gif-4496552

[vivid maple]

https://tenor.com/view/failure-steven-he-asian-failure-management-failure-management-steven-he-gif-15320677352020130093

[subtle gate]

of the highest degree

[cobalt yoke]

stargate mentioned, what is a proper conclusion

[vivid maple]

you are such a disappointment that your ancestors are turning around in their graves cause of how much of a failure you are

[flint sinew]

[jolly sky]

https://tenor.com/view/aang-previous-avatars-avatar-roku-gif-11704364

[subtle gate]

[vivid maple]

https://tenor.com/view/emotional-damage-rage-quit-angry-high-expectations-asian-dad-gif-1657543331362557022

[subtle gate]

https://tenor.com/view/the-letter-h-spinning-man-letter-gif-24584770

[bronze summit]

I look away for 20 minutes and wtf happens

[meager wadi]

yall needa stop villifying alts like we all have an ulterior motive. Some of us just dont wanna get shit on from people for being here.

[flint sinew]

new conversations
me:

[subtle gate]

I mentioned my unfortunate cooking habits

[flint sinew]

/s

[subtle gate]

protip: don't start cooking and go back to play games the thing will scorch even if it's just water

the saying "a watched pot doesn't boil" but in reverse

[indigo wadi]

You know what we should do? Stop talking about all the drama farmers and just ignore that they exist

[bronze summit]

and boil water

[vivid maple]

https://tenor.com/view/haiyaaa-gif-19345021

[bronze summit]

• burn sage

[vivid maple]

naw im disappointed asian dad right now

https://tenor.com/view/uncle-roger-ancestor-crying-gif-12223912519138713686

[rain sigil]

I bought a house last year and my realtor left a small gift after closing, which includes a bundle of sage to burn. My spouse saw it and said "Damn, that's the fattest joint I've ever seen!"

[indigo wadi]

You mean disappointed asian uncle