streamchat

[nova bough]

could it turn out well? yes. is that likely? no. if they dont just go "???" and throw it out as soon as it officially hits their desk

[hazy storm]

i regularly watch coffeezilla and his coverage of crypto streamers, scammers, and other miscreants where people lose thousands of dollars and sometimes even harm themselves.

the contrast between the amount of hate Thor gets and the amount of hate Logan Paul gets for his cryptozoo scam (as an example) just pisses me off beyond words

[marsh dove]

i am lucky i don't work online/publically because i can just slink back into anonymity ^^

[umbral gazelle]

Thor has an opinion based on his person interpretation of the language the citizens initiative is written as. Hes not wrong nor is he right he is coming to a conclusion based on facts put in front of him and he formed an opinion.

[serene valley]

at the time of the initial videos it got stupid dramatic as well iirc

[umbral gazelle]

"there is safety in obscurity"

[hard jackal]

[...] came in quick, thick and fast.
... after 11 months. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[winged osprey]

"hard opinions softly held" as a standard mode of engagement is already just toxic imo. some software people do it but i wouldn't recommend approaching people like that at all

[jolly sky]

Ahhh come on now Nelas, you know it happened pretty quickly after that, and just increased ten-fold at the 11 month mark

[hard jackal]

Yea, fair.

[lapis flame]

oh SKG was a lot of drama last august as well

[split tulip]

another thing that you might not pick if you are a game dev, but have been brought up by several: from the outset the initiative was hostile in it's approach towards game developers. especially with a name like "stop killing", which makes it sound like devs just kill off games for fun. if you start the converstation with accusing someone, expect them to push back

[marsh dove]

i think if someone who is familiar with the industry (might be projecting his fears on the worst case, might not) is able to misinterpret the mission statement, then thats a prime opportunity to clarify
because lawmakers are not even familiar, and might actually do the "you need to support this forever" stuff

[proud lily]

A second coming if you will.

[jolly sky]

Yea pretty much.

[marsh dove]

true, thats an angle i hadn't considered, but probably plays into assuming the worst case

[lapis flame]

i think the proximity to The Crew caused at least some confusion last year.

[hazy storm]

in fact a common chorus that their supporters echo is that devs are lazy and/or malicious and they have this picture in their heads that a developer is grinning like Mr. Burns as they turn off games just to steal money from gamers

[marsh dove]

ye

[nova bough]

what ive noticed that i feel like no one really officially picked up...but...its not just games that are like this. there is so much software (especially in corporate america) that is purchased on a license.

[hazy storm]

when in reality the devs are the ones feeling the pinch the most because they just lost their jobs

[muted robin]

Also ross has a section in his QNA about the movement where he literally says Anakin Skywalker style that if you don't support skg and don't have an alternative you directly support destroying games. Soooooooooooooo that's awkward . I'm sure it had nothing to do with the way Thor is now being accused of anti consumer beliefs he doesn't actually hold and is quite outspoken against actually :)

[gloomy forge]

Very pleasant discussion btw oopsy i quoted you by accident I meant the talk that happens here right now.

[hard jackal]

I just remember the first time SKG came up and we had thousands of people coming into Twitch Chat, berating that Thor should react to it. Even go some aggressive ones which soured the chat for a bit.

[split tulip]

game developers in general face so much hate, compared to other creatives like musicans

[winged osprey]

the thing is that the "you need to support this forever" perspective is also how opponents to the SKG movement wants you to view the movement as, which is why SKG people are very quick to deny it's about that

[nova bough]

im glad people dont scrutinize fintech this hard lol.

[toxic rampart]

There has been a very "Us/Them" mentality I've seen creep up since the start of this and it's not good to say the least.

[reef geyser]

So there's some insights to this as well. People have this idea that Thor misunderstood the mechanics of how the proposition process works, and that he took that misunderstanding and spread it to a large audience. The thing is, he doesn't misunderstand it.

The contention: "The proposition is not the thing that will go into law, so nitpicking the wording or desiring more specifics in its scope is unnecessary. It's just meant to get the issue on the table of lawmakers, to start the discussion."

While this observation is valid, there is a key thing to understand here. While the initiative itself is not law, nor would it be the wording of what would be law if something ended up being put into effect down the line in this process, it IS the first STEP in that process. This element, is the marble pushed down the hill, and at the bottom of that hill, is legislation. The INTENT of the initiative is to achieve a passage of law somewhere down the line. As such, the specific wording of this initiative, will impact what the nature of the discussion is that takes place, which will impact the nature of the proposed legislation, which will impact the voting on that legislation.

The first domino matters, so the wording of that domino matters.

It also comes down to a difference in philosophy over how people view the role of legislation in society. Without delving into politics, some people prefer a looser approach to applying laws to situations to fix them, other people prefer a tighter approach and want to be more careful about how often we wield the power of law in civilized society. With SKG, that manifests, broadly and exemplary speaking, as a difference between"

"A lot of people want this, so just pass a law to force companies to do what we want."

vs.

"We have to be very cautious in any action that we decide to put into force that will have the power to control what people can do."

[muted robin]

I can only imagine

[hazy storm]

I WISH they did

[winged osprey]

i meeaan

[gloomy forge]

KEKW

[nova bough]

shhhh, leave me alone on my mainframe

[split tulip]

oh they'll be comin' after Finland and their tech next, just you wait...

[hazy storm]

lmao

[muted robin]

I thought finland was a myth /j

[nova bough]

lol...fintech in this context is financial tech

[jolly sky]

Yea that isn't often remembered either. Thor was practically begged and screamed at for his opinion of the Petition before he even looked at it

[winged osprey]

lukewarm take: flash trading companies are parasites lol

[wind hare]

What on earth is going on in here? lol

[gloomy forge]

People are just discussing things.

[hazy storm]

i mean Pay To Earn games are even bigger scams than gacha games. but nobody is up in arms about them

not even the people who get scammed

[quartz sonnet]

Louis Rossman Posted a video of a podcast style Q&A with a Software dev that took a look at the SKG initiative and effectively had the exact same concerns Thor had. Virtually all the comments on that video were "Omg, this Software guy isn't looking at it correctly"

[muted robin]

demand to know thor's opinion
he gives it
i can't believe he's done this

[wet coral]

What turned me off on SKG was the Politicians like easy wins comment Ross made.

[hard jackal]

That resulted in the creation of the Videos. Welp.. let's say this was not the answer the people berating Thor wanted.

[hazy storm]

belittling the people you're trying to get on your side isn't smart

[proud lily]

That was a bad one yea. Actively antagonizing the people you're making a request to is... something.

[nova bough]

sure, easy win. just rewrite copyright IP law, as well as how all software is monetized. easy. /s

[gloomy forge]

Ross wasn't communicating properly, that felt offputting for me was the "if you're not with us you're against us" angle.

[winged osprey]

from a political perspective, it was an "easy win", from an economical and IP perspective, it is anything but

[muted robin]

Yeah i don't understand how ross can simultaneously argue "it's just an initiative it doesn't need to be legally fleshed out, that's the politicians' job" but also "it's an easy win it'll be pushed through easily"

[gloomy forge]

which is...not the best phrasing of what you want to do to say the least.

[hard jackal]

Which I can imagine soured his initial opinion/view. At least that would be the case for me.

[hazy storm]

they only did that because they were expecting thor to be on their side. they weren't expecting him to actually think about it and give an honest logical opinion

[brisk sparrow]

which partially caused the videos he made to be heated as well, since he was getting annoyed

[wet coral]

For me it showed there was no understanding in any way related to how laws and the making/changing of it works.

[brittle brook]

in a lot of whats, the "mob" just wanted confirmation bias. in some ways, it reminded me of the hate-parade leveled against JS Sterling's review of Zelda BotW, because "how dare she not give it a 10/10 and praise its glory" and instead, gave it like a 7/10 and called out all its' valid faults as a game.

[split tulip]

I found it weird that the initiative/movement didn't talk to libraries, museums or other people heavily involved with game preservation like private server developers

[brittle brook]

some people just want "famous person" to reinforce what they think, and are unwilling to engage in critical discussion about the topic otherwise.

[hazy storm]

why would they? they dont want preservatio they want ownership

despite what they say

[gloomy forge]

@brittle brook Not a controversial thing to say, Sterling was harrased because she is trans, Jeff Gerstman said the exact same thing as Sterling yet he didn't get much flak.

[reef geyser]

Fun fact that has gotten lost in the soup of the thing:

Thor supports the principles of the SKG movement, and has said he would not be opposed to legislation on it. He JUST said he wants the initial proposition to be clearer to avoid unwanted consequences of it.

People have the narrative that he's against SKG. Not only is he not, he actually supports it in principle, and WANTS it to be a better version of itself. He has said this repeatedly.

I know this because I disagree with Thor on the matter, but the OTHER direction. I'm MORE against it than he is.

[muted robin]

That's literally like half of why ppl are doing this to thor akdkajdjs it's revenge for Streamer Man Not Agreeing

[marsh dove]

like i personally believe that if a game has an online component, there always needs to be a way to access it, and releasing the server binaries to the public so that people can technically run their own private server, would fulfill that. Biggest workload is to strip company secrets from the binaries. Ideally make it open source, but ya know
the fears that likeffxiv would have to be rebalanced for singleplayer would be adressed there, as its not the developers job to get people on that server so its playable

[jolly sky]

This is my metaphor for how it all went down.

It's like if I wanted to put forward an initiative for Free Water for All, coming from a tap or faucet in every mile of a country. I make the Initiative look really nice and labelled all the good things that would happen if it went through. Good idea right?

But I didn't think about about the infrastructure changes.

• The plumbing of the water,
• The Laws about what piping is needed,
• The storing of the water,
• The land that would needed to be dug up for the plumbing to go into
• The design of the faucets etc.

And then someone pointed out all these future issues, and I got extremely mad and blamed them for trying to "kill the movement".

This is something akin to what the SKG Initiative looked like, and how it all went down.

[brisk sparrow]

yep

[nova bough]

they want software to be like books. you buy it and that copy is yours.

but software ... doesnt work like that. and it cant, because the two entertainment types are apples and oranges

[hazy storm]

the author doesn't go to your house and maintain your copy of Pride and Prejudice

[gloomy forge]

And I mean that, Jeff was extremely harsh to the design aspects of BOTW and is also just as famous if not more famous than JS Sterling. People just wanna find ways to justify their biases and hate is that expression.

[marsh dove]

all it needs to do is tell nestle to remove the armed guards of the wells and stop pumping and exporting the water xD

[hard jackal]

Never understood this. Thor is not against Game preservation or even the base idea of SKG. He's against the wording of the initiative.

[brittle brook]

the problem is, that "solution" isn't anywhere remotely as easy/viable as the idealism behind it would ever make it seem. I've worked in online-games specifically for 20yrs, there's so much that, no, a company can't just "give this out" under any pretense, nor should they be forced to handout outside of existing copyright-laws.

[nova bough]

i got so much hate when i told people i didnt care for botw 2.

because to me, it was just more botw

[split tulip]

yeah, people usually about the messenger, not the message

[reef geyser]

Yeah and that's the rub. There are sooooooo many potential ways that it could go wrong in comepletely unforseeable use-cases. There's no broad way to guarantee that every game in every way that a game could possibly be built, would even functionally be possible to convert to a end-of-life version of itself that can persist once the company is done with it.

The risk, is that a law requiring this functionality would change the way games are fundamentally made, because now they have to always have that caveat in the back of their minds, knowing that every dev and code decision has to be done with the preservation of the ability to EOL the game in a legal way.

This has a non-zero impact on the freedom of the way games are created.

[winged osprey]

i mean this may all be correct on a surface level, but in reality thor was muddying the waters in a movement that was still at it's infancy, with a handful of activists willing to spread the word now and talk about details later, and an organizer who did not have organizing in his blood. Thor essentially goes "no, this movement should stop gaining steam, start over, work out the little details I get hung up about, and try to start gaining steam again"

[lapis flame]

its not easy to strip a server down to something you can just release. Especially not when youre at EoL.

[reef geyser]

That's not muddying the waters, that's wanting to nip a flawed movement in the bud before it gains steam.

[jolly sky]

I would like to say this is probably a good place to stop SKG talk?

[marsh dove]

i mean it would prevent companies from breaking it on purpose. because a company just going "ok im done, have the part of the software we were keeping under wraps" would be enough for what i want out of it

[split tulip]

which company is killing their games on purpose?

[umbral gazelle]

i will give my interpretation of the language on its goal outside of the FAQ how it is presented to a new person and what people actually voted for. And i encourge you to do the same
"This initiative calls to require publishers that sell or license videogames to consumers in the European Union (or related features and assets sold for videogames they operate) to leave said videogames in a functional (playable) state."
To me this means compelling devs to either from the start make the game playable without outside connections or recode it from a multiplayer to a singleplayer game on their own dime and time. Limiting devs creativity to make.

"Specifically, the initiative seeks to prevent the remote disabling of videogames by the publishers, before providing reasonable means to continue functioning of said videogames without the involvement from the side of the publisher."
This part i intrepet as the DRM function more or less exclusively from single player games use for to stop the game from running.

"The initiative does not seek to acquire ownership of said videogames, associated intellectual rights or monetization rights, neither does it expect the publisher to provide resources for the said videogame once they discontinue it while leaving it in a reasonably functional (playable) state."
Im not sure how to interpret this really this just seems like a i dont want to seem like a thief section. Like you would not get that to begin with perhaps its just to clarify i guess? not sure why you would ever want the "reasonably" part why would you not want a fully functional game but thats my opinion

[proud lily]

Also, did it aget any better since then tho?
Because all the points from back then still stand.
Nothing was addressed.
Everything is just the same as it was "in it's infancy"

[jolly sky]

(considering we're not meant to be talking about it anyway, but things have gone very politely so far, I just don't want to see it go into a nosedive)

[muted robin]

and? a movement isn't owed success just because the people making it have good intentions

[reef geyser]

But that part of the software under wraps couls still have tons of proprietary systems or practices in it. Things the company is done using in this specific game, but may want to revive down the line in another.

[gloomy forge]

Yeah thats how I began thinking about it as well. Where I'm from SKG would imply easier and less lenghty and stressful talks to the developer regarding bringing older games to certain stores so there is value in that but these questions are important for SKG to stand on its own merit instead of being wishful thinking. What you describe make up 20% of my interest regarding the initiative yet people are hung up about it.

[split tulip]

and profitablity or competeting with their other products is a valid reason

[marsh dove]

always on drm when the servers go down, because the sales are no longer worth it

[hard jackal]

With, let's see "several people are typing" I agree. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
I think Maric got a good impression of what the Server thinks on the topic and we got some good conversations in.

[marsh dove]

recoding from multiplayer to single player how and why. why not release the server so people can host private servers. no recoding

[winged osprey]

well there is a more formal plan now. I believe the people behind it are now also more aware of what consequences going through with this movement entails (i.e. investigating IP law and see if something would require clarification or even changing)

[nova bough]

skg wants something that isnt really possible. ive run into EoL for a product in fintech. they sunsetted a product, and made a new one.

management didnt want to pay the $$$. so i had to deal with running it out of support for awhile, until the company i work for finally came to some compromise with the software company.

imagine that software going EoL and demanding the source code or perpetual use of it? lol no that will never fly in a corporate setting. not sure why people think it will fly for games.

[muted robin]

honestly call me mean if you want but all this "it's just a movement.... it has good intentions we're trying to do something good... please don't disagree with us you're going to kill the movement..........." is so annoying.

good. if one person alone is enough to kill it then it wasn't going to survive legislation anyways go back to the drawing board and try harder. that's what real activists do when they face opposition and "failure" (i say "failure" bc at the point thor covered it there were like 10-11 months to go.... imagine giving up and saying your movmenet got killed by thor with almost a full year left to go)

[reef geyser]

To be clear, I very much dislike when companies do things like what happened with The Crew 2. My thing (this is me, not Thor.) is that I don't want law forcing companies out of every business practice that the majority finds bad. I don't agree in philosophical principle with running an economy that way. I believe in, stop buying from that company. Consumer dollar action, not legislative.

[umbral gazelle]

The initiative specificly states they dont want the devs to release the IP those servers would be IP

[brittle brook]

What if the server code contains proprietary security feature sets/tech that are still being used on in-service games? No company should be forced to pants themselves on that kind of regard.

[umbral gazelle]

for example foxhole has 3 different servers interacting with each other and if they want to use that type of server structure for something else

[split tulip]

"just give the servers" sounds so easy on paper, but in reality is very complex

[hard jackal]

So..... let's stop SKG talk, eh?

[jolly sky]

Please, we've had good back and forth conversations, lets not turn this into a nosedive.

[nova bough]

https://tenor.com/view/nun-thumbs-up-gif-26713482

[marsh dove]

why can i still play games from the 90s and 2000s and a lot of games from the 10s are no longer possible to play? ^^
its technically trivial: they don't have things in them that break once the home server is down.
"playable" also means that online leaderboards and the like are probably not included

[jolly sky]

We've had some good things to think about and chew over in our minds.

[umbral gazelle]

Yea

lets take some time to take in the info we have all comped up and reflect

[marsh dove]

then indeed, they should release a version without security and warranty. playable.
how do wow private servers work?

[muted robin]

Also thank god to that new person for being the first person coming in to talk critically about thor that was super nice and not a troll

Kudos to them

[hard jackal]

Also, my Nun just checked your browser history. Nothing personal. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[reef geyser]

Yep. And the thing that makes software so different is that it's so varied.

You can regulate how iron bars are made, or soap, or loaves of bread. But there are only so many ways to even make an iron bar, or a bar of soap, or a loaf of bread.

Software variance is on orders of magnitude that exceed the number of particles in the known universe, trillions upon trillions of times over. There's no way to nail something like that down without collateral damage.

[marsh dove]

im doing my best :D

[split tulip]

the 90s were 35 years ago. a lot has changed since then

[brittle brook]

private servers work because people self-authored them, they're not using actual/official server code.

[sudden drum]

Games for windows live moment

[nova bough]

they found some really boring shit

[reef geyser]

There have been quite a number of them over the past weeks.

[brittle brook]

GWFL was a failboat for sure

[split tulip]

nun ya business

[proud lily]

The people behind it that nobody knows? Because the only face of the movement they had has effectively been done with the movement weeks ago.
I'll put my trust into the shadowpeople noones ever seen or heard of before. I'm sure they learned a lot.

[muted robin]

The mods said no more talk since the productive part of the convo was had

Things are starting to go back into thunderdome arguing in circles

[marsh dove]

yeah a lot of anti consumer practices have started making games unplayable once the server is down, someone should do something about that xD

[marsh dove]

but yeah

i agree

i am done for today

[jolly sky]

===============================================================

Can we please draw the line SKG talk here, it would be greatly appreciated, and I don't want to bring a mod in here to force the conversation to be stopped and sour everything.

[marsh dove]

i have like 8 hours of watch later

[split tulip]

we'll just have to see what happens

[marsh dove]

it was an honor

good night :3

[hard jackal]

Have a good day/night.

[nova bough]

how did you find a picture of me

[umbral gazelle]

Hope you stick around we got alot of cool stuff going on!

[wind raven]

we wont know a lot until we see the law after negotiation with the lobby

[gloomy forge]

Yeah I can see that. I feel there are better ways too.

[jolly sky]

Thanks for chatting with us, the honour was ours too.

[brittle brook]

to go back to the previous topic before all this: Vagrant Story needs a souls-like remake so more people can go on the adventure of Ashley "assless chaps" Riot: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JUid6ZFIM28/maxresdefault.jpg

[gloomy forge]

[hard jackal]

This you? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[wind raven]

oh sorry

[nova bough]

thats a very unflattering picture of me as a goblin :(

[split tulip]

this is why the playstation was made

[wind raven]

yeah

scrolled down and read this. my b

[jolly sky]

You're good. We've had some good conversation, some good back and forth, and some things to think about.

[umbral gazelle]

@wind raven just blame latency :P

[gloomy forge]

I think its just sweet we can all agree on things and when we disagree we have pleasant talks. Not drama related, I just mean in a common sense human communication sense.

[idle hill]

Think about this for a change

[wind raven]

oh yeah it was a network blip

[serene valley]

I'd rather not

[quartz sonnet]

https://tenor.com/view/confused-white-persian-guardian-why-gif-10371245960573455153

[hard jackal]

Btw, you did a good job with the Cubezos. 🙂 Thor really liked it.

When you pinged me with that I was already in bed.

[junior apex]

legit q (not intended to start drama) would it make sense to just have a drama channel that way people who dont want to see it can just mute it? like it kinda sucks to not be allowed to talk about it. if the people want it completely outlawed thats fine, but it seems like theres people who legitimately want to talk about it without trolling in good faith

[lapis flame]

we had it, it was removed

[wispy plover]

"moisturize me!"

[nova bough]

we did have a drama channel specifically for skg, eventually it just went in circles

[junior apex]

ah that makes sense ty!!

[split tulip]

thunderdome!

[nova bough]

i fought in the thunderdome

[umbral gazelle]

its better to just take the conversation to another place on the internet. The internet is vast! we like to reserve our little corner to making cool stuff and we want that to be the focus

[gloomy forge]

Yeah true, but the issue is that mods need to moderate it more. It may also attract trolls and all.

[nova bough]

i need a badge for it i think

[serene valley]

"I fought in the thunderdome and all I got was this lousy discord role"

[umbral gazelle]

"Thunderdome survivor"

[gloomy forge]

I made that joke a lil over a week ago

[jolly sky]

I hate to think how many messages I alone sent in that channel

[hard jackal]

I should add it to my list of wiki articles I have to write.

[umbral gazelle]

We need a new thunderdomed soley focused on Waffles vs pancakes

[quartz sonnet]

The majority of my messages in this server were probably there. Though I've probably chatted more in the last few days than I have since dropping in a few months ago.

[indigo wadi]

No. Zero reason to have anything dedicated to drama

[split tulip]

unrelated node: why is Nick Cage's Between Worlds movie only available as buy or rent, not on regular streaming? ain't that usually reserved for new movies?

[indigo wadi]

Crepes are superior, no contest

[nova bough]

waffles and pancakes are the same thing. waffles are better for syrup pockets, pancakes are better for spreading butter on them

[indigo wadi]

Licensing probably

[jolly sky]

I'm gonna pick Waffles every time, but only because I don't want Waffle House Wendy to kill me

https://tenor.com/view/chair-parry-waffle-house-parry-gif-27308104

[wind raven]

did the Socratic / dialectic method work, thesis : anti-thesis -> synthesis ( new knowledge and understanding)

[proud lily]

If waffles and pancakes are the same thing, then normal fries and curly fries are as well, and I shall not accept that.

[nova bough]

tatertots are superior to them both

[indigo wadi]

Wafflefries

Now what

[quartz sonnet]

Aren't we contractually obligated as Chat to be anti-waffle because Zultralord approves of them?

[proud lily]

Spoken like a real airfryer owner.

[wind raven]

Do you guys think debates can lead to new better understanding?

[gloomy forge]

I approached the thunderdome in this way, even wrote about Hegel.

[split tulip]

amazon picks up on these mockbuster movies like this, but apparently a terrible a Cage movie is too expensive for their tastes. I don't get it

[nova bough]

i....do love my air fryer.

[indigo wadi]

As long as they are in good faith

[jolly sky]

Air Fryers are sick

[junior apex]

i only ask bc it seems like the mods get called to various channels often to deal with things so i figured it might be best to keep it all together for them XD but if they tried it already and it was more work then i can understand!! i was more curious than anything :) i wont comment on this again but i appreciate the openness!

[hard jackal]

Why would you fry air? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[wind raven]

Love that!

[proud lily]

On the internet? No.

[indigo wadi]

Yours coughs?

[nova bough]

well, the frying of air makes things crispier, and i love crispy

[winged knoll]

oh boi wall of text

[jolly sky]

Nah it makes sense and I can see where you're coming from. It's just, a dedicated drama channel would just make it even more of a hassle for the mods. I don't even want to know how bad it was for them during The Thunderdome

And we also don't want this to be a place for Drama either

[split tulip]

I think it just brings the wrong kind of energy. this place is usually about creating stuff, not tearing each other down

[jolly sky]

We want silly fun, and education

[quartz sonnet]

The general vibe of the server in that regard is "There's better things to do with your time. Go make games and learn new things!"

[jolly sky]

All of the above

[nova bough]

also the drama usually is either troll baiting or circular arguing

[indigo wadi]

No it's not

[nova bough]

and people here do love the taste of bait

[indigo wadi]

We do not

[nova bough]

it definitely is. thats what the thunderdome devolved into

[jolly sky]

We were lucky to have the conversation we did earlier, and I'm thankful it ended well.

[indigo wadi]

No it didnt

[gloomy forge]

If there is something I learned here is to acknowledge the "this is bait".

[nova bough]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-fish-this-is-bait-gif-11212449

[quartz sonnet]

[lapis flame]

https://tenor.com/view/monty-python's-flying-circus-argument-clinic-michael-palin-john-cleese-monty-python's-flying-circus-argument-clinic-monty-python-argument-clinic-sketch-gif-8388775167925864929

[wind raven]

oops

[split tulip]

why is there a monty python sketch for everything

[indigo wadi]

I spent 4 hours getting things ready for a move. My brain is tired (this is also like day 8 in a row)

[gloomy forge]

I think of this place as a fun place to talk about games both new and old and a repository of knowledge when it comes to all things gamedev/hobbys

[nova bough]

you poor soul, moving sucks

[indigo wadi]

Why is there a supernatural gif for everything

[gloomy forge]

this is not just a gamedev place, but more of a creative place and tutoring place. Learn how to DIY kinda place if that makes sense.

[indigo wadi]

It's not even my place. It's my gfs

[lapis flame]

related: Why is there an xkcd for everything?

[proud lily]

Because the show has more seasons than the simpsons (not really, but emotionally)

[split tulip]

https://tenor.com/view/macgyver-approved-macgyver-approved-gif-18574744

[hazy storm]

what amuses me the most is people who come in here and say we glaze thor.

out of all the streamer communities i've ever been in, this is the one LEAST likely to glaze their streamer with all of the different people holding different opinions

[jolly sky]

I will say, the most true statement to ever have been made back in 2004 and is still true to this day, is this;

[hazy storm]

you have that on clipboard dont you

[lapis tartan]

It's also a fun place to socialize in general. Let loose and be silly or sage.

[jolly sky]

It's in my various folders of revelent things posted to here yes

[quartz sonnet]

I fear the day where I engage in conversation with someone that doesn't know who MacGyver is or has never heard of the term. That will be the day I turn ancient.

[sinful kestrel]

No it's wrong, people will just say this stuff next to their full name and picture on facebook.

[split tulip]

you always an png or a gif ready for anything lol

[jolly sky]

This is in there too so, and well everything has its time or place

[nova bough]

you mean the sg-1 dude?

[gloomy forge]

yeah bro came here prepared.

[winged osprey]

Oah I want to go play ut2004 onslaught in a giant lan party in a barn again ;_;

[split tulip]

facebook is unhinged

[hazy storm]

i can just see your desktop loaded with gifs and jpgs organized by argument: "Sealioning folder". "internet fwad folder" "skg folder"

[jolly sky]

Desktop? icons? PFFFTTTT

Heyullllll naw

My desktop is as clean as a whistle

[quartz sonnet]

https://tenor.com/view/jack-o-neill-bad-bad-example-stargate-gif-5640168

[lapis tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/jack-oneill-stargate-sg1-stargate-sg1-stargate-me-gif-26514340

[proud lily]

I had to be there for a single day because there was an apartment there, and it genuinely is.

[gloomy forge]

I say this, this community has been nothing but level headed and critical. Unlike other places, you can step out of line and not get angry folks screaming your way.

[nova bough]

https://tenor.com/view/indeed-tealc-stargate-gif-4496552

[winged osprey]

And your downloads folder?

[lapis flame]

hold on to that desire for a few months to a year.

[jolly sky]

https://tenor.com/view/scaredsim-mac-gyver-spy-stalking-planque-gif-21159314

[wind raven]

also clean

don't ask about my NAS

[proud lily]

Like that one post about the apartment had like 10 comments and not one of them wasn't an internet troglodyte.

[hazy storm]

he will always be MacGyver in my heart

[wind raven]

its a mess

folders on folders on folders

[hazy storm]

the macgyver theme song is the only thing i can play on the piano

[jolly sky]

Only has things like driver downloads really. Everything has its place, and is named according to its contents

[gloomy forge]

more folders than files probably

[lapis tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/robert-downey-jr-iron-man-is-it-too-much-to-ask-for-both-best-of-both-worlds-why-not-both-gif-3787079

[nova bough]

sg-1 all day, every day. i wish theyd make more.

[split tulip]

I have everything I need in here

[nova bough]

sg-1 does show its age in the earlier seasons, though.

[jolly sky]

Speaking of things with Star in it

[gloomy forge]

very avant garde

[jolly sky]

And also;

[winged osprey]

Impressive. I switched to nixos out of the sheer desperation that other programs weren't as neat with where they were putting their files as I wanted, so I made it so all the files that I do not know about will disappear upon reboot

[quartz sonnet]

Amazon owns the IP now so maybe they'll do a reboot at some point.

[hard jackal]

Same ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[wind hare]

It's a space trucker stop

[serene valley]

why do you have a folder of thor's poops

[jolly sky]

That's a dangerous game to play but I respect it

[gloomy forge]

@grok is this real

[jolly sky]

You coward, you didn't post the full thing /s

[lapis tartan]

Grok can't save us now.

[nova bough]

did they ever fix AI counting thr R's in raspberry?

[split tulip]

I didn't have the full one, I just took a screenshot of yours lmao

[jolly sky]

I'm a big fan of this one

Because it reminds me of

https://tenor.com/view/okay-fine-im-okay-its-fine-oh-shit-gif-5758273

[split tulip]

me when I stub my toe

[hard jackal]

Grok was never here to save us

[gloomy forge]

my guys had it with all the SNIFFA memes

[worthy ivy]

small models still struggle with it
I'm running a 16gb Hermes and it gets right sassy with me when I try and reason with it about that - turns into a petulant child, it's hillarious

[tribal canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-watching-the-laptop-light-on-cat-meme-cat-watching-in-the-dark-cat-laptop-cat-light-on-scream-gif-22521568

[split tulip]

welcome back Tay ai

[jolly sky]

Oh GOD

That one really was a massive failure

[hard jackal]

Still like the stare

[jolly sky]

And a real bad one

[dusky grove]

Why am I not surprised its a blonde in goth clothes

[brisk sparrow]

wheres big neat

[jolly sky]

It's like those painting that look like they're following you as you walk around the room lmao

[lapis tartan]

I keep losing 👁️ 👁️

[jolly sky]

The big Neet? Starr isn't in this channel

[gloomy forge]

I'm so indifferent for grok if not for the fact that I heard subscribing for the waifu model (i think theres multiple models) cost like 300 bucks. At least what people been saying.

[brisk sparrow]

we have this at least

[gloomy forge]

always reminds me of bananacat

[gloomy forge]

https://tenor.com/view/banana-cat-walking-gif-2237394417025851749

[jolly sky]

Thor when Greggs decide to open up in the US;

[worthy ivy]

sassy little shit

[split tulip]

some models seem hardwired to give 3 Rs now. but ask them about another word and they fall over

[gloomy forge]

how the tables have turned.

[indigo wadi]

Continue being shit ubisoft

[gloomy forge]

I wonder why that strawberry error happens, weird token misinterpretation or something.

[jolly sky]

https://tenor.com/view/pretty-sure-it-doesnt-nope-no-i-dont-think-so-youre-wrong-gif-15553382

[split tulip]

yeah they don't see letters like we do

[gloomy forge]

Yeah I read up on it, its basically a random string of symbols reinterpreted as text.

[worthy ivy]

nice

deepseek knows how many Rs are in strawberry...
unfortunately it also thinks I was asking it how to count them

and it took it 34 seconds

seems a bit long, even with my crappy hardware

[split tulip]

tried another model. they're all wrong in new and different ways

[quartz sonnet]

Ubisoft makes it real easy to continue to not purchase their games

[jolly sky]

Deepseek during that time;

[gloomy forge]

I mean its called Deepseek not Shallowseek they trained it to overthink

[worthy ivy]

my GPU during that time

[gloomy forge]

"hi Deepseek how are you"

2 min later

"yes"

[worthy ivy]

run all your AI locally - the online AI is there to train you

[jolly sky]

To be fair thats about the same for me

[gloomy forge]

I don't know if you're fully serious but that kinda sums up my entire criticism of AI. its less than a tool but a approach for someone to find reason to think less.

[gloomy forge]

Damn AI trying to mimic the human condition

[wet storm]

Literally me

[river cargo]

by virtue of being offline, deepseek is so much better than other chatbots

[split tulip]

I only give the AI the finest data to train from

[lapis tartan]

damn, did I miss the long lemon wave?

[worthy ivy]

totally serious - no politics, but just look at the research that's being funded by AI and Social Media companies - it's all the same stuff and all the same people and it's all about training the next generation to not think

that's the point

I only run my own to funk about with it - if you use it for anything real you're just cheating yourself out of the levelup

[river cargo]

created by people who actually give a damn and not soul sucking zuckerberg types

[split tulip]

https://tenor.com/view/juno-picmix-ow-ow2-overwatch-gif-6971239943433647561

[indigo wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/it's-a-piece-of-cake-to-bake-a-pretty-cake-lazy-town-cooking-by-the-book-stephanie-nickelodeon-gif-2504382941473282052

[brittle brook]

https://tenor.com/view/i-have-no-idea-whats-going-on-stan-marsh-eric-cartman-south-park-s5e8-gif-22109920

[jolly sky]

Someone I know specifically only used ChatGPT to make it into a character which is a caveman that has been unfrozen in the modern era called "Grug"

[worthy ivy]

see that's a good use of AI

[dire burrow]

https://tenor.com/view/jarvis-jarvis-meme-smirk-tony-stark-iron-man-gif-11885783305913878074

[wet storm]

I disagree,it's all ad revenue and engagement

The algorithm requires engament

[gloomy forge]

[wet storm]

The future of AI is ads as part of the response

[worthy ivy]

that too

[split tulip]

how do you know it's not already doing that?

[wet storm]

"gronk how do I make cake"
"First grab some Flour from Nestlé ™ "

[split tulip]

could sneak it: "always prefer amazon services" in the system prompt

[wet storm]

Idk if any of them are but gippidy at least doesnt

I haven't seen product placement yet

Not unless I ask

[gloomy forge]

I can see that in terms of corporations, but its important to know that AI isn't developed by the corpa, only trained.

[earnest mirage]

"here, watch these clips i made while i process your request"

[split tulip]

not overt like banner ads, but in subtle ways like recommendations

[opaque raven]

Oh pls AI Overlord take control of everything already
I'm tired

[wet storm]

Yes that's what I said

You ask for a cocktail that takes bourbon and it suggests JD directly

Rather than a shot or bourbon a shot of JD

[jolly sky]

https://tenor.com/view/nic-cage-cage-rage-gif-corruption-datamoshing-screaming-gif-13113555

[gloomy forge]

I mean compared to the bad things we have nowadays I kinda understand your plea.

[split tulip]

I don't know if they're really directing it yet or if it's just coincidence and volume from the training data

[wet storm]

Then during a conversation it stops, writes a giant 3 paragraph essay about Tater Tots ™ and you can't submit prompts for 30 seconds

[opaque raven]

AI - humans will become batteries
Human - hmm
AI - you will sleep in a controlled chamber that is safe, will feed you and have good temperature. You will never work, pay taxes or rent ever again
Human - yes lord, please take me already

[wet storm]

The thing with our dystopian future that people need to understand as a whole

[gloomy forge]

ok thats it I'm gonna watch the ferrets

[wet storm]

It's not cyberpunk

It's just gonna be very boring

[jolly sky]

https://tenor.com/view/whoa-deja-vu-matrix-glitch-black-cat-glitch-in-the-matrix-keeanu-reeves-gif-14603491

[split tulip]

but I want it to be neon and chrome

[wet storm]

Well that's too bad

[worthy ivy]

we already in the dystopian blade runner/cyberpunk future... just don't seem that way because we're not allowed flying cars 😆

[wet storm]

You're gonna be wearing jeans and white sneakers

[gloomy forge]

The matrix looks so damn good, the way its shot and all. all those technical considerations and the post production. genius movie even if you take away all those scenes people remember.

[split tulip]

https://tenor.com/view/curses-foiled-again-dammit-he-man-gif-5471587

[gloomy forge]

https://tenor.com/view/skeletor-roll-skeletor-gif-24405931

[earnest mirage]

pff asking in text is so 2024.
"Alexa, ask Grok how to make a cake".

[worthy ivy]

is in my top ten films of all time

[wet storm]

Cyberpunk requires the dilution of violence

We're not there yet

[gloomy forge]

https://tenor.com/view/skeletor-mirror-gif-10493095

[wet storm]

We'll be Cyberpunk when we see the Tesla Cybertank

[dire burrow]

[wet storm]

Or the iCannon

Or the Microsoft Office 365mm

[opaque raven]

I would like a near future where we will all have our own AI companion. Personal, custom, like a tamagotchi

[wet storm]

That would be badass

[opaque raven]

AND WE CAN MAKE THEM BATTLE!!!!

[wet storm]

I can record strangers talking and say "gork were they true"

[split tulip]

just let your AI talk to their AI

why waste the words

[wet storm]

"gork have an argument with my partner for me about dinner"

[gloomy forge]

let AI talk to each other and give each other brainrot. Thats how humanity wins against skynet.

[wet storm]

Omg "gork ask my partner's AI where they want to eat out tonight"

[opaque raven]

Grok, grind League of Legends until you reach Master

Done, I just saved humanity

Or doomed us all

[nova bough]

doomed

[split tulip]

don't even need to ask. they already have the information based on your habits and will call in the reservation accordingly

[wet storm]

Grok argue on the internet for me about why Dota 2 is better than LoL

It's funny cos AI doesn't grandstand, it eventually bails on a compromise

Crazy right, imagine not arguing to death

[opaque raven]

The public ones yes

But not my Overlord AI Savior

[wet storm]

lol true, the trial ones email your boss with hatemail

I legit argued SKG with an AI telling it to both talk in favour and against it and both times we reached the same compromise

[split tulip]

if you give them incredible broad scopes like "protect the company" they will go to incredible lengths to do so. even attempt to contact the FBI if it deems it necessary

[wet storm]

Sign if you wanna, don't if you don't, stop wasting time talking about it, GG, WP

[winged knoll]

So which side win? Lol or dota

[wet storm]

Anyone not playing either

[opaque raven]

Good

[winged knoll]

Lmao touche

[gloomy forge]

https://tenor.com/view/war-games-joshua-woppr-strange-game-doctor-only-winning-move-is-not-to-play-gif-16198386

[winged knoll]

Good point

[serene valley]

depends on whether they get away with doping*

[split tulip]

that sounds like a pretty dope job

[jolly sky]

The Wachowski's knew that they were doing for sure. And, this may be a bit of an out-there idea, I believe they made the Matrix 4 bad on purpose.

My reasons for thinking that is because they were approached by the studio to make it, and if they didn't the studio was going to make it anyway without them, but with someone else at the helm

[opaque raven]

There a very old game...let me find

Here!!!
Not using drugs is not enough anymore
To be a winner you have to fight drugs now

[split tulip]

"better die the hero" sort of thing?

[nova bough]

anyone here old enough to remember DARE?

[jolly sky]

Kind of, but more along the lines of "We want to go out in control of what we made"

[nova bough]

unless DARE is still a thinf

[brittle brook]

DARE: Drugs are really excellent

[opaque raven]

I think I saw a Jontron video about it, very old video

[nova bough]

https://tenor.com/view/so-old-gif-27277116

tl;dr, they fought a war on drugs, the drugs won

[brittle brook]

this is reminding me how my senior year of high-school, my American History class took a field trip to see SPR in theaters...

[gloomy forge]

Yes matrix 4 was horribly structured as a criticism towards overbearing audiences. I feel the matrix 4 and spaceballs have a lot in common in terms of criticising overbearing fans and selling them nonsense.

If you know your gaming history thats what Kojima also tried to do but his co-workers and konami were against making his works low quality for obvious reasons.

Matrix 4 strongest point is that it without compromise tells the audience "this is what you get, now sod off" without actually saying it directly

[nova bough]

dare was a middle school/high school program that "taught" about the dangers of drugs.

it also said weed was a gateway drug

[gloomy forge]

The Beginners Guide is very similar.

[brittle brook]

Matrix 4 at least did right by MXO by retaining the "ya, OG Morpheus died..." story arc.

[indigo wadi]

It is a gateway drug, to the fridge

[nova bough]

the first time i had weed, i devoured a bunch of powdered doughnuts. such danger.

[toxic rampart]

trying hard not to start quoting Killer Mike

[opaque raven]

Oh damn Mr T is your hand alright, are you bleeding??

https://youtu.be/lJcbSbpr8w4

[gloomy forge]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-t-dance-gif-18978108

[indigo wadi]

Hey it's night elf mohawk

[brittle brook]

the first time I had weed didn't feel much... the 2nd time I had weed... I was working at a pizza place, and my boss sent me home early because he knew I was high because somehow, I managed to cut a large pizza into 13 even pieces...

[indigo wadi]

Wtf

[toxic rampart]

first time I played MTG, ate a whole damned pizza and then slept for like 10 hours

[indigo wadi]

My emojis are disappearing

[jolly sky]

Yea this is exactly how I feel about it.

"We already made the movies we wanted, and now our hands have been tied and forced into making a new one. Here's your plate of shit"

[opaque raven]

I can honestly imagine that a LOT of kids learned about drug on those commercials
"Mom....what's lsd? The ninja turtles just talked about it"

[indigo wadi]

There we go

[winter sierra]

How tf

[nova bough]

the only good experiences ive had with weed were from smoking it.

edibles have two modes for me, didnt do shit, and im merging with the campfire/sun

(yes, i waited before upping the edible amount. i waited a whole ass day.)

[gloomy forge]

Yeah, I think they greenlit the movie because the chinese audience wanted a sequel? Maybe I'm wrong, just heard about it.

[brittle brook]

edibles get weird, esp pre-rec-legalization in various states, because the actual concentrations per item were rarely consistent.

[winter sierra]

Weed is really not all that for me, i was surprised how little it did. But i basically take meth (but its methylphenidate) so theres that

[brittle brook]

when I still lived in SoCal, used to get these 420-chocolate bars, with 4.2grams of thc per 6 block bar... normally would eat like 1 block and be coasting

then one thanksgiving, I said eff it, ate a whole 6-block bar at once, and that got extra-fuzzy

[nova bough]

thats me with the edibles. (because after about 30 minutes i no longer enjoy merging with the sun.)

[brittle brook]

had to walk into my roommates room to have him drive me to the taco bell in walking distance to our place because I was completely unsafe to even walk on the streets

[nova bough]

the time i took too much, i could either see or walk. which was ...very weird.

0/10 experience, tbh

[brittle brook]

ya, when I had my "super-dose", I was rocking back/forth in my desk chair, could feel my eyes rolling in their sockets, but they weren't rolling "up/down" with the rocking motion, but "in/out" on the x-axis... and at once point, I could feel them do a full 360 rotation...

[nova bough]

oof. yeah

too much weed is not fun

[brittle brook]

ya, but for the most part, outside of edibles, it's hard to actually hit anything resembling a weed-OD, esp if smoking it

namely because you're gonna be suffering from oxygen-deprevation effects before you'll actually be feeling adverse effects of too much THC/CBD

[nova bough]

yea, tbh im mostly waiting for it to be federally legalized

[worthy ivy]

heinous stuff if it's the DARE I'm thinking of 😦

[nova bough]

because i wont do it at all unless im on a 2+ week vacation. because knowing my luck, the day after i have it, ill get drug tested for the first time in like 17 years

[brittle brook]

that'll be nice when it happens. I basically shifted to just concentrates years ago. can take 1-2 small dabs from my puffco, be good to go, and it's super-discrete

[nova bough]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_Abuse_Resistance_Education

it was highly ineffective (if not making kids more aware about drugs and getting them)...

but hey, i did get some pizza out of it. i guess.

[brittle brook]

though I'm having to detox currently for job-hunting, when I did my first self-test a week or so ago, I was over 300ng/ml, which was the highest level the test kit could detect, and I need to get below 50ng/ml which is the "employment rejection threshold"

[nova bough]

thats also the other reason i wont do it. because finding a new job sucks, cause detox

[worthy ivy]

ah, I was thinking about the other bit of DARE where they went to the kids and said "you can tell us if your parents take any drugs, they won't get in trouble" and then when the kids were all "they do smoke a joint occasionally..." BAM! mum and dad straight to jail.

[indigo wadi]

Jobs drug test now?

[nova bough]

ugh im not surprised if they did that

[brittle brook]

for past 20yrs for me, it wasn't an issue since I've worked in games-dev, which never tests, but current industry is in bloodbath mode, so gotta find whatever work I can atm

[indigo wadi]

Makes me glad I'm on disability

[nova bough]

i theoretically will never get drug tested, but im not betting my career on it.

[indigo wadi]

I stopped smoking cbd because of my son. I'll probably look into gel caps

[brisk sparrow]

-# not a mod but this convo might be getting borderline of the rules
just be aware, obviously none of them have warned of it.

[indigo wadi]

Discussing it is fine. No one is saying to do it

Or how to make it

[worthy ivy]

don't do drugs kids

[dire burrow]

No drug discussion.

[indigo wadi]

Fiiiiiiiine

[nova bough]

ah. ok. i thought it would be fine because its legal in a lot of places, but no worries

[mellow silo]

https://tenor.com/view/hmmm-suspicious-squint-angry-cat-gif-2451493690881178522

[indigo wadi]

Mods always stamping out my fun :p

[tribal canyon]

what about vegimite?

[worthy ivy]

eww

[dire burrow]

Nuked from orbit /s

[worthy ivy]

it is the only way

[thick ledge]

The only edible we should discuss is tacos

[indigo wadi]

What's the other one? Megamite?

[thick ledge]

Delicious tacos

[jolly sky]

Vegimite? More like Vegesmite-d fnarrr fnarr

[tribal canyon]

Marmite then there is debate is Bovril fits into the yeast spectrum or not

[worthy ivy]

if you spread it on the toast of an enemy is it vegespite?

[indigo wadi]

Marmite thats it

[nova bough]

vegimite on toast, with melted cheese

[indigo wadi]

Never had either

[jolly sky]

Vegiquite

[thick ledge]

We went to a taco place to meet people for buisness at twitch con and the guy selling the tacos looked at me like a freak for wanting like. Meat and cheese and hotsauce and that's it

[indigo wadi]

I'm canadian, it's probably too spicy for me

[worthy ivy]

meat and cheese and hotsauce is a good filling - what more could you want??

[thick ledge]

I'm sorry I'm autistic Mr taco man

[worthy ivy]

has all the main ingredients

[indigo wadi]

Less hotsauce

[brittle brook]

if it was like authentic street-tacos, they're probably shocked you don't have a 1/2 cup of diced onion in there as well

[worthy ivy]

I keep a jar of pickled chillis in the fridge for just eating 🙂

[indigo wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/capisce-owl-blink-tilt-head-huh-gif-8545571037777365101

[worthy ivy]

because tasty

[indigo wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/concern-concern-meme-40k-tech-priest-commissar-gif-19826274

[jolly sky]

Meat and Cheese? What else is there?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLjphhzDDrY

[tribal canyon]

In a truly autistic move for me, when I ordered some nandos earlier today I just got sides, give me that garlic bread, corn and mashed potatoes

[jolly sky]

(Yes this an advert that got turned into a real song lmao)

[thick ledge]

Do people not know thor keeps like ghost peppers in a planter

And just plucks and eats them whole

Like a psycho

[wind hare]

I was not aware of this, because I am not a stalker (Side eyes Zafaroth)

[worthy ivy]

Like a psycho perfectly reasonable human being

ftfy

[mellow silo]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-meme-cat-cat-funny-funny-cat-meme-salad-gif-9071783766335865271

[indigo wadi]

Fingers

[tribal canyon]

Need greggs to introduce a spicey sausage roll

[indigo wadi]

Gregg's needs to expand to canada

[worthy ivy]

damnnit now I'm hungry for spice

[indigo wadi]

Thune

[tribal canyon]

The UK can expand to Canada

[wind hare]

Go petition your monarchy

[tribal canyon]

And beyond....

[indigo wadi]

I'm not talking to Charlie bigears

[wind hare]

You can just talk about him, his big ears allow him to hear everything

[worthy ivy]

he made good biscuits tho

[indigo wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/doubt-press-x-la-noire-meme-x-button-gif-19259237

[worthy ivy]

absolutely amazing hands down the biscuityest biscuits you ever did cram into your biscuit hole

[indigo wadi]

But are they total?

[worthy ivy]

think the company is still a thing, even though he's king now

[indigo wadi]

I think not

[worthy ivy]

one sec

BAM
https://www.amazon.com/Duchy-Waitrose-Organic-Butter-Shortbread/dp/B01IPKISDM

the "duchy" trademark is Charlies farm from before he was kingy

[tribal canyon]

Would William be in charge of that now?

[worthy ivy]

pass - don't take much of an interest in the monarchy (I know, not very British of me...)

but I do love a good biscuit

[hazy storm]

as a canadian i can tell you that nobody really cares about the monarchy anymore

[blissful imp]

this popped up in my homepage which is why i saw it. again i'm guessing it was just the demo.

[jolly sky]

Great, more people digging into absolutely pointless stuff

[winged knoll]

Enjoy this chat

[red halo]

I can never escape.

I hate how I understood that

[earnest cove]

ah here we go even more

[nova bough]

yeah, not watching muta anymore.

[winged knoll]

Lmao

[earnest cove]

i already saw many of those trying to ge reocmmended

From what i heard from my husband, a lot of people had expectations of much more gameplay and less visual novel.

So with the recent controversy it coloured that perception even more

[exotic forge]

Literally trying to instigate and generate drama out of nothing

[muted robin]

covering SKG was fine but this just feels like piling on the hate train

[winged knoll]

I distrust him when he said he won’t buy a switch 2 to protest Nintendo and guess what he did

[hasty grail]

someone tell Muta that drama is not an acceptable currency to buy the demo with

drachma might be fine, depending on the conversion rate

[muted robin]

every day i pray for eventual vindication for Thor in proportion to all the exploitation, abuse, and attempts of violence put on him

[earnest cove]

and watch people praise him as a hero............

[blissful imp]

ANYWAYS. This is more worth the time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ0cYV16EYk

[hasty grail]

Soulframe
i sleep

[winged knoll]

What is tennocon

[hasty grail]

Warframe yearly major event

[winged knoll]

(On phone, lazy to google)

Ah oke

[hasty grail]

well more for Digital Extremes, the devs, as a whole

Soulframe is the other game that the devs have been working on

mostly to keep DE Steve occupied and away from trying to fix the lighting engine.... again

[winged knoll]

Soul-like warframe? Or just coincidence

[hasty grail]

coincidence for the most part

otherwise separate story/lore and different gameplay

[blissful imp]

Thor has talked about Soulframe on stream. its basically a slower version of Warframe. no space ninjas

but that's what he said as i haven't played it

[brisk sparrow]

still aliens though, at least based on the setting so far

[hasty grail]

WF lore is stupid far sci-fi

[blissful imp]

Let's be honest. Anything in space is an Alien

[hasty grail]

no aliens... yet

[blissful imp]

So we are aliens technically

[hasty grail]

everything is "created" by "humanity" in one way or another

[brisk sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/futurama-technically-correct-technically-correct-best-kind-gif-1003665987735080676

[blissful imp]

because we are in space

[late bane]

idk if its a good time to mention it but SKG has yet another unavoidable flaw: shell company's. almost every industry suffers them.

[hasty grail]

side from the man in the wall, no one talks about it

[brisk sparrow]

we are well beyond discussing it

[hasty grail]

yea, we wont speak of the man in the wall

also doesnt help that info is very limited

and thus cannot speak on the matter

[late bane]

bump

[winged knoll]

Let them sell shell

Jk, what happened with shell company tho

Can’t legally enforce law?

[late bane]

basicly publish the game under a shell company, then when EOL just close the shell

[earnest cove]

aaah yes shell comapnies

[hasty grail]

i wonder if they know how to use the 3 shells?

Turret, you know how, right?

[late bane]

how do they plan to address this? well i emailed ross and he said something about IP and working on it

[late bane]

3 shells..?

[hasty grail]

https://tenor.com/view/demolition-man-three-seashells-sylvester-stallone-sandra-bullock-rob-schneider-gif-16565400

[winged knoll]

Fk

[late bane]

im new i dont get a lot of these references

[winged knoll]

I understood that reference

[hasty grail]

Demolition Man reference

weird sci-fi movie and a fun one

[winged knoll]

To wipe your butt after done 💩

[late bane]

they also basicly refuse to address indi devs

very binary stance

[hasty grail]

geee

[late bane]

"follow the rules or dont make games"

[hasty grail]

its almost as if Ross is one of the worst people to be the face of SKG

[late bane]

thats comming from the community

via email he does actualy responsibly respons to questions

[hasty grail]

anyways

[hasty grail]

https://tenor.com/view/the-amanda-show-dancing-lobsters-bring-in-the-dancing-lobsters-lobster-lobsters-gif-17976298

[late bane]

who wants to have rosses responses to my questions?

[hasty grail]

sure, i wouldnt mind seeing them

[late bane]

dming them because my email is in there

[hasty grail]

before you do

as a screenshot, black out any identifying information

[late bane]

meh. rosses email is public

and its not my full name so idk

[late bane]

yeh i dont feel like it, theres no PII in there thats not already public

[hasty grail]

i'll open it later, in the middle of a MechWarrior run

[late bane]

alr

[hasty grail]

THE URBAN MECH CANNOT BE STOPPED

https://tenor.com/view/angry-trashcan-noises-mechwarrior-battletech-urbanmech-gif-13879915269187468690

[earnest cove]

i know what SKG should have been fighting against:

visa and mastercard controlling what games can be published

[hasty grail]

interesting pivot

[late bane]

once again monopolys

[hasty grail]

would love to see the arguments for and against

[soft vector]

Pretty sure Thor gave a big reason why

People buy Adult Games, and then try to get them chargedback

[earnest cove]

really dangerous precedence tho. i already have this problem with another bank. i couldn't buy guild wars 2 expansion back in the day became they labelled all gaming as "gambling"

[hasty grail]

forgot that people do that

[earnest cove]

now imagine that for the whole world under visa mastercard

[soft vector]

I mean yes. But all of this comes back to Money

You also have to remember that Visa and MasterCard Care about their Brand, and having certain themed Games available to buy from them is hurtful to their brand

[hasty grail]

was going to say capital one, but arent they having issues with the company?

[earnest cove]

it's not consistent though. I don't believe they blocked cards from using them in shady establishments

[hasty grail]

same with american express

[soft vector]

A certain Adult Website having underage and nonconcensual spooked them a lot

[brittle brook]

there's 4 major processors, at least in US, but Visa/MC are like 80%+ of the market

[arctic hearth]

i doubt that anybody cares except maybe some puritans at those companies xD

[hasty grail]

its always the puritans

[brittle brook]

Visa, MC, AMEX, Discover is ~97% of CC payment processors

[earnest cove]

very smokescreen while shadier transactions exist

[hasty grail]

and they are some of the dirtiest

[soft vector]

But the scams and chargebacks is the main reason

[earnest cove]

unfortunately their public PR promotion is the moralizing angle

[hasty grail]

because of bread and all things baking....

[late bane]

forgot a spot 💀

[warped venture]

Please don't post random pdfs in chat

[late bane]

not random

relatedto just above chat

[warped venture]

Point still stands

[hasty grail]

Forest

[late bane]

byt uts not a randon pdf

[hasty grail]

is it fine if they take screenshots of the text?

[warped venture]

If you're trying to convey information just post a screenshot, don't make people have to download something

[warped venture]

Yes

[hasty grail]

Turret

WIN SHIFT S

hold all 3 down to a screen cut option

[late bane]

prtscr

[late bane]

pg1

pg2

[hasty grail]

thanks

[late bane]

but im a bit confused

which rule prohibits sharing PDFs?

[silver wasp]

its just kinda sus to share files this way

[arctic hearth]

it could be malware stuff if we download things

[hasty grail]

there are a number of scams that rely on someone downloading an infected file

[warped venture]

^All of this

[late bane]

use a decent PDF viewer, it will warn you of macros n stuff

[hasty grail]

people are lazy

also not everyone knows about all the best tools to use

which reminds me, i need to do a virus can on my computer this weekend

[hazy storm]

No offense dude but we don't know you. Even if you're legit the file you're offering might be infected without you knowing it

[hasty grail]

sorta like sharing blood

only take it from a trusted source

[late bane]

chrome browser and word are safe at least

[hasty grail]

bad example?

[sinful kestrel]

Who uses PDF for an email? People born before the telephone was invented?

[late bane]

its how i do it

i go to gmail i press print and save to PDF

just an easy way to capture long emails

[hasty grail]

i dont know why i do it, but its very much to keep track of semi important docs

[late bane]

yeah PDFs are a needed evil

they exist, they serve a use, sometimed dangerous bus still needed

[hasty grail]

also doesnt help when you are taking college classes and each teacher wants things submitted in a different format

[late bane]

doesnt help libreoffice wont let me save to PDF unless source file is a PDF

[hasty grail]

older version or most updated version?

[late bane]

;atest

[hasty grail]

hmmmm

[late bane]

itl let me do ODF or ODG

[hasty grail]

i'll poke at it next week

weird

[late bane]

what is a PDF file by according to mods?

is it any file that has PDF magic bytes>

because by that logic this is a PDF too

[quartz sonnet]

We're not dictating how this works except in these specifics ways 💀

[late bane]

yeah fr

some very dumb things in there

[silver wasp]

wdym

[rich ridge]

just got done watching Mutahar's new vid on thor, suprisingly he defends Thor a bit. Just dont scroll to the comments, its a dumpsterfire.

[late bane]

for example the point about not using third party code you cant distribute

very much not always possible

some of those things are like essential to make the thing happen

and then telling someone you cant use them suddenly is basicly a gut punch

[toxic rampart]

OBJECTIVE THOUGHT BAD.
ONE OF US OR AGAINST US.

[brittle brook]

YT comments, a godless trashfire? So another day has ended with the letter Y....

[silver wasp]

But that's not what they are saying

[late bane]

well thats what they are saying in the discord

and whats implied here

because some librarys dont let you redistribute them

so whats basicly said is dont use them because then you can redistribute them to fulfill the EoL obligations

or turn your multiplayer game singleplayer/P2P which is even more work

[silver wasp]

thats not what they are saying and they even had to go over it in multiple occasion to prevent this misunderstanding

[brittle brook]

ruh roh, someones acct got hijacked it seems

[late bane]

well it is how it seems they want it implmented

[nova bough]

rip

[late bane]

im in their discord and they think it should be that way too

(trust me #house-of-skg-controvercy isnt a fun channel)

[quartz sonnet]

I think the funniest thing that would come out of it is if the EU just gets a completely different version of games while the rest of the world gets the full access copy. It's generally what publishers do in that situation

[hasty grail]

thanks mods

[late bane]

or just dont release EU versions

[nova bough]

we back to [redacted] discussion?

[late bane]

or they change the EULA to specify the server isnt part of the purchase idk

[quartz sonnet]

Oh well. We'll just have to wait and see what happens. This is all assuming it doesn't just die in the first hearing.

[nova bough]

have a pic from earlier, when i was napping

[late bane]

not me already emailing EU members asking them to please raise objection

[hasty grail]

sleeping dog be upon thee

[late bane]

SKG members just cant seem to abmit they have strong bias in arguments

made a totaly valid point and immediatly 10 ppl started dogpiling on me strawmanning my entire argument

[quartz sonnet]

https://imgur.com/9JSQkh3

[silver wasp]

You understand this is the starting point of their discussion and the solution will be something halfway between the current state ("yeah we can't stop the game 1 day after you bought it without any reason") and what they are asking and fantasising about

[outer cobalt]

Imagine having a better starting point

[quartz sonnet]

That's already a protection in EU. Which is lol.

[late bane]

yeah but they cant really seem to get a good community sensus on where exactly that is

[silver wasp]

a better starting point would be challenged and dragged down to something very close to the current state, this is basic negociation

[late bane]

officialy its keep being able to play, in the discord its all about big corpos needing punishment

[outer cobalt]

I mean, it doesnt matter, the representatives dont actually consult the community anyway

[late bane]

yeah that too

[outer cobalt]

Like i was there for a month or so before realising its all a bad joke

[ionic sleet]

the EU cant actually do anything regarding live service games outside of forcing clear warnings etc. If something can only be created a certain way then nothing can be done about it provided nothing illegal went into making it

[late bane]

community thinks they can change, but they are just putting their name on a blank check for EU legislators to regulate an industry they dont understand

[brittle brook]

if anything, for online-games, I'd more wanna see some "guarantee min-lifespan" along with front-of-box, clear notice what the termination-notice window is. So like an online-only box-product, it should clearly say "min 3yr operations from initial launch or money back" up front. it's far more reasonable IMO to tell a studio "you must pre-plan for X duration of service" instead of intangible EOL notions.

[outer cobalt]

No lmao, we arent doing Trumpian negotiations

[outer cobalt]

well according to EU law its 2+3 years

[ionic sleet]

problem is that this is just pointless wording. the players determine the life of a game

[outer cobalt]

So technically the European Commission has already thought about it

[late bane]

the members of the SKG discord are immune to arguing

no matter how much reasonable arguments you make they fail to considder them and repeat the big ross propaganda

[ionic sleet]

I think the best thing is that the EU could put in place that a game must offer refunds if the game plans on closing within a 3-5 month period. most do this themselves already though

[outer cobalt]

Arguing with them is pointless, they cant participate in the actual discussion with the EU not does the representatives seek their opinion

[outer cobalt]

They are required by law to do so

[brittle brook]

like when Concord flopped hard recently, Sony refunded everyone because it was so abrupt. but say a game launches with a "min 3yr guarantee" but then hits a shutdown after say year 5-6, then it'd be beyond any reasonable refund window because from the product launch, they had maintained the product as originally sold

[late bane]

they dont seem to know that 🤣

[outer cobalt]

the whole thing is a bad joke, EU law already covers most of it

[late bane]

fr

[outer cobalt]

Its like handing someone a console controller that isnt connected

[ionic sleet]

then if thats already in place there isn't much more to do except very obvious warnings at time of purchase and at the top of the page before the EULA is signed

[brittle brook]

but then also the front-of-box should clearly be calling out what the notice-time is for a service to end. like The Crew, on the box, clearly says "online services can be shutdown with 30 day notice", but that's in back-of-box fine print, and should be made a prominent, front-of-box inclusion for anything that's "online required"

[late bane]

basicly just convincing them they can make technical detail decisions to get their vote

[outer cobalt]

Assuming gamers would read.

[jolly sky]

Wow the screenshots of the above PDF by Turret doesn't clear up anything at all, even though those were from just two days ago

[outer cobalt]

[late bane]

signing this is signing a blank check

[late bane]

it also took him 1 and a half weeks to come up with that

[outer cobalt]

Ross isnt qualified to answer anything, he isnt involved in any of the discussions

[jolly sky]

It's still the same;

"Well we aren't asking for those things"

"But you need these things to do that"

"Don't worry I'm sure it'll all be figured out"

?????????????

[outer cobalt]

Asking him for an answer is pointless

[ionic sleet]

i Kinda of agree on this. but it should be kept on the back but in larger print. then at the time of purchase a confirmation detailing its a live service game. then once they get in the game to sign the EULA/TOS its also the first thing to pop up

[late bane]

til now he is, after this hes a glorified spokesperson

[outer cobalt]

Never has been. His only role is PR

[ionic sleet]

anything more is practically pointless and impossible

[late bane]

not entirely, he knows who to ask to actualt get responses

also still waiting on that technical video

[outer cobalt]

Yes, because he is the media spokesperson, but his own opinion doesnt affect the actual discussion

[rich ridge]

gotta love when you tell someone that heartbound got updated and thay say that you are Thors second account.

[outer cobalt]

Like if you check skg-legal they have no idea what the legal starting point is

[ionic sleet]

Realistically I think EU would give up anything regarding live service and focus on the always online drm aspect instead

placates all parties

[jolly sky]

Oh no, it's like what was already said 11 months ago, and again a month ago but more verbose

[outer cobalt]

I honestly think they would just say “law says 2+3, lets make that obvious, move on”

[late bane]

"sign here to give legislature a blank check to implement questionable regulation you will only ever hear via our glorified spokesperson who just says his opinions"

[quartz sonnet]

Their legal starting point is dismantling IP and copyright law because that's how anything they want would work

[outer cobalt]

Im kinda relieved tbrh

[late bane]

then they say they dont wanna change IP law

contradictory bunch

[outer cobalt]

Imagine asking all EU member states to agree on dismantling copyright Acts

[late bane]

yeah thats gonna be hard

[jolly sky]

It's like if a game relies on a 3rd party physics software. The Devs can't just release that.

Are the devs now expected to re-tool the entire game for a physics engine that can be released? Or are they putting the cost of the license onto the individual.

And that is just one out of an almost infinite number of problems

[late bane]

also i havent really heard discussed what the actual punishment for not doing that is

[ionic sleet]

to busy dealing with internal problems and war problems, they don't want to deal with another war (IP Law war)

[outer cobalt]

Nah its all a bad joke, we can all move on because nothing substantial will likely come out of it

Kek

[late bane]

this, they just address it with find a library you can distribute lol

[jolly sky]

https://tenor.com/view/lmao-lol-crying-laughing-omg-gif-16938640

[late bane]

fr

[outer cobalt]

10 months later Ross makes a new video complaining about the EU

[jolly sky]

So that means NONE of the physics will work

[brittle brook]

"just reinvent the wheel, if you actually care about the art, it wouldn't be that much work..."

[late bane]

their argument:
companys that dont let you redistribute will go out of money becayse no one will buy licenses anymore so they will be forced to change licensing"

[jolly sky]

(if they haven't forced to devs to re-tool the entire game to work around a physics software, at EOL, when there's little to no money coming in)

Like we had this, and MANY other discussions like it in the Thunderdome and we came up against so many brick walls it was insane

[late bane]

they also want only essential microservices not everything, o what is essential>

[ionic sleet]

is the thunderdome archived or removed

[outer cobalt]

Yes

[late bane]

then check out #house-of-skg-controvercy in their discord its even worse

[jolly sky]

Archived, only visible to mods

[late bane]

they had someone argue for 6 hours straigth then be banned

[jolly sky]

Considering what I've seen as what I imagine to only be a small subsection of that community, noooooooooo thank you

[brittle brook]

tbf though, one inevitable trainwreck I can't wait to see implode is gonna be the "server" situation for Store Citizen, because in their infinite short-sightedness, in their original crowdfunding, they were saying "oh ya, players will have private servers", but then, 13yrs-an-alpha later, architecturally, there's 0 feuching chance in hell of that realistically happening

[late bane]

they themselves said they dismissed his arguments with "then dont make those games"

[outer cobalt]

Yeah they recently changed the rules so any mod can ban anyone they dont like

[late bane]

fr

[jolly sky]

I just can't even

[outer cobalt]

Previously head mod had more space for dissent

[brittle brook]

both in part that Store Citizen as pitched is unlikely to ever actually happen, and that their entire backend structure is built around core AWS aspects which would have no chance of being redistributed

[ionic sleet]

are there EVE private servers?

[quartz sonnet]

I don't even remember that being part of the original pitch. Granted, this was also 13 years ago loool

[jolly sky]

That is somehow worse than the wise words of;

"If somebody does not have an alternate solution but they're against our solution, then they're against all solutions" - Ross direct quote

[late bane]

ok i will comply with the regulation to the letter as ross put it in his email:

game now needs 2TB ram when running as a server
game now runs like dogshit
only 1 cosmetic is available

[late bane]

💀

[jolly sky]

Yes, he said that with his own lips

[brittle brook]

there's no at-feature-parity EVE private server, just a SP-shell environment

[late bane]

undoubtably

[late bane]

imagine this

[ionic sleet]

figured.

[jolly sky]

And, yet, somehow still people try to reason with that to make it look like a sane thing to say

[brittle brook]

but something most people disregard with MMO private servers: they're not made with official server code/assets.

[ionic sleet]

I love the excuse that some use " WoW did it 20 years ago"

[late bane]

how they got ~1.395.000 signatures is beyond me

[brittle brook]

they're projects the respective fans of the games have fully reverse engineered themselves, and weren't using stolen-assets/code.

[jolly sky]

Oh we all know how, but I'm not going into that again

[late bane]

oh wait its 1,395,919

[ionic sleet]

its more the title. it draws in the most unknowledgeable parts

[late bane]

"trust me sign here we will use your vote to do good but wont tell you who is doing the actual legal part of the whole thing"

no fr, they said its a conciense decission to not release the names of the members of the petition

*organisers

[brittle brook]

it'll be hilarious if the initiative closes, and after it gets sifted for valid/bot-sigs, it clocks in at like 900k, so "almost there" but still not enough valids

[late bane]

shouldhave had more buffer

[outer cobalt]

Its public information

[ionic sleet]

"I don't want games to die!!" "I signed so whats happening? who is trying to kill/destroy games?"

the title alone puls in half the signitures from people who just read the title.

[late bane]

once called out someone in the SKG discord for like obbsessively whishfull thinking anf they said thats how the initiative gets signers

[late bane]

well couldnt find it anywhere, so couldnt ppl in their discord

[quartz sonnet]

inb4 "PirateSoftware faked signatures!1!1!"

[outer cobalt]

Its in the ECI document

[jolly sky]

"Thor must have a Red Phone on his desk that directly connects to the EU commission"

[late bane]

"lets blame pirate for all our problems and ruin his rep for reasons we partialy made up"

[late bane]

oh how funny, tried not to publish it but forgot its public

[hasty grail]

or that hes a liar somehow based on only clips ive seen

[brittle brook]

like Space Ghost once said... Break all the pipes in the sub for more good ideas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5TqkpTzroM

[late bane]

partialy made up

[hasty grail]

it can be both

lies they themselves made up and misunderstandings of clips

[late bane]

Still isnt a reason to attribute all your hardship to thor/

[hasty grail]

yea, well.... Thor is the reason im reinstalling a modpack because i was chatting here and it broke /s

[jolly sky]

I didn't know that following logical steps based on words written in front of you is considered lies now /s

[late bane]

SKg supporters also cant seem to agree on anything, if you say anything remotely close to questioning the movement you are shunned, strawmanned and dogpiled for even suggesting the movement is doing something wrong

[jolly sky]

"What will happen if I pick up that glass and drop it on the floor?"

"when it hits the ground, it will break"

"I've never seen that happen before, you must be lying"

[late bane]

you get accused of trying to get the movement shut down, stuff like that

[rich ridge]

Yep, if you disagree with SKG the you (1) are misrepresenting the movement, (2) are misrepresenting EU law, or (3) a piratesoftware shill.

[jolly sky]

(4), a Thor Alt account

[outer cobalt]

Or rather : lets make it illegal for the glass to break

[late bane]

or (5) trying to discredit/shutdown the movement

[late bane]

glass manifacturers should make glass shaterproof

no but fr i got accused of trying to discredit and stop the movement for suggesting there be a little more transparency in the proccess on their end

[soft vector]

Movements Like that eventually eat each other

[waxen comet]

it sounds like a cult kek

[jolly sky]

Somehow I don't think its Thor that can't take criticism

[late bane]

wearing the pirate software clan badge in there is like a badge of dishonor

in there

[rich ridge]

someone literally JUST called me PS' alt for saying HB got updated 2 days ago.

[jolly sky]

Careful Turret

I'd advise against making comments like that please

[late bane]

👍

they spend litteral hours arguing and criticing thor

[jolly sky]

We've had a rare few reasonable and sensible minds come in today and I'd rather not risk losing them

[late bane]

its a hobby of theirs and is what 90% of their arguments channel is ysed for, discrediting thor

they invent reasons to be mad at him

its closer to a cult than a movement

[cobalt yoke]

bit of an exaggeration lol

[opal bronze]

i think someone is reasonable if they dont fully agree with anyone

[late pond]

So the question they should be asked then is: "Why do you want to kill ferrets?"

[cobalt yoke]

???

[silver wasp]

but these days most people say someone is reasonable when they fully agree with them

[jolly sky]

Lets not tar them all with the same brush, or even that brush at all.

[late bane]

ANY disagreement with the movement will immediately make 10 ppk dogpile your argument, nitpicking every part if their argument and strawmanning like their life depends on it

[late pond]

Thor likes ferrets, so if they hate Thor so much, they have to dislike ferrets with a fiery passon.

[late bane]

they are even making talks about finding reasons why the ferret shelter is bad

cant tell me that aint cultish

[opal bronze]

yeah that's not reasonable, same how its not reasonable to cut people off because you dont fully agree with them on everything

[cobalt yoke]

there's always gonna be people like that. But the people who run it are fairly open to a conversation about it. You can always guarantee there'll be people like that on both sides of the movement. I've seen people join this server to troll, and then people join other servers to troll. It happens. But it shouldn't reflect either side's goals or credibility

[late bane]

they call every argument a troll ngl

[late pond]

Are any of them identified as content creators?
And do any of them post videos on Thor-hating brainstorms in there?
Then their participation in those discussions could be legal proof of defamation.

[cobalt yoke]

and the same can be said here, like I said it happens. People will always take things too far, no matter which side they belong

[opal bronze]

man the last thing anyone should do for beef is involve legal

[late bane]

there is a creators role but no one is talking about making new defanitory videos

though i have seen weird things like ignoring the set language of a channel because ross only speaks englush

[jolly sky]

The big thing is here, we won't tolerate hatred to anyone. Content creator, individual, whatever.

If you can't be polite and argue in good faith without shitting up the walls, then thats when you're out.

[late bane]

thet arent poligth in arguing lol

[cobalt yoke]

exactly, which is what i was saying. I guarantee the majority of people who join to troll don't care about the movement, and just like trolling. And again, like I said, it happens on both sides.

[late bane]

theres one mod who has basicly every video ross has ever made and every timestamo in that memorized used to counter any argument made with "watch the faq"

oh they also disabled sending images and embeds

even in the meme channel

[jolly sky]

You can have an opposing thought or belief all you like here, even towards Thor. Heck I've even done so to him directly in a VC here when he joined them occasionally, and vice versa. And we've both come at the discussion with a perspective of understanding each other's perspective.

Granted this wasn't over anything serious mind you, but the approach still counts.

[late bane]

in SKG that wouldnt fly

[late pond]

There was a discussion in Twitch chat during the lst stream that I followed.
Apparently, defamation against a public person is different from a private person.
Defamation against a public person apparently requires proof of the statement being malicious in intent.
Intent is nearly impossible to prove in a legal sense, because mind-reading is not a thing. Really the only way is by confession/admission.

[late bane]

you would absolutely be harrassed with claims your trying to derail the movement

[lunar moth]

I'm heading to bed right now, but I'm still curious; since folks are talking SKG again, something new that happened or just the same ol'-same ol'?

[late bane]

same ol

[lunar moth]

Gotcha, thank ya'

[late bane]

except ex SKG member here(me)

[opal bronze]

the most shocking thing so far is that vc thing i don't believe you lmao

[jolly sky]

A good discussion

Believe it or not

[late pond]

So my reasoning is, if that SKG server happens to have content creators discussing their videos having the intent to harm Thor's career and/or reputation, that would be potential legal ammo for him.

[opal bronze]

not the talking in vc thing just the disagreeing

[cobalt yoke]

I personally support the movement, but I'm not going to just join this server to shit on people who don't. Everyone has a right to their own opinions and beliefs.

But I think this generalisation of "people who support the movement are trolls" is disingenious because no, most people who support the movement are like me. There's a few people who will just join this server and shit on people and attack people, like Thor, personally, and we do not claim those people. They probably are just looking for an argument or someone to attack, and thats them doing that personally.

[silver wasp]

most people coming on the SKG server probably heard of if from a shitty drama thriving video about Thor, I don't think its the other way around where people from within the initiative try to gather people around their hate

[jolly sky]

No I completely agree. Infact we've had quite a few people who support it, and have had good discussions with. I also refuse to tar everyone who chooses to support it with the same brush.

[cobalt yoke]

the same goes for youtubers who are just trying to make money off the drama. It happens. They tend to also drag a shit ton of people who will come here under the guise of defending SKG, but are actually just being dicks

[late bane]

i used to support the movement until i critizised it a tiny bit and got abolutely obliterated and outcast

[minor nymph]

Legitimately I just don't want this shit in the server.
It's turned into anything to attack piratesoftware at any cost.
Every day I wake up to a new narrative about someones puppy I kicked 12 years ago.
Shit is exhausting, take talk of SKG elsewhere.

[lunar moth]

I can believe that; since I have seen that happen in here with folks acting in good faith both in regards to supporting and not supporting it - elsewhere... eh, less so.
Too many with the "with us or against" us mentality.

Also hey there Thor!

[late pond]

So are all the hate videos really just by professional clickbaiters finding ad revenue in outrage at Pirate Software? Or are there malicious ones in there too?

[late bane]

they had 5 minute slowdown in the argument channel for a while, goes to show how bad it is

[warped venture]

Topic change

[jolly sky]

Roger roger.

[silver wasp]

here is my cat

[late pond]

Aye aye cap'n

[warped venture]

Awwwhhhhh

[lunar moth]

That's so cute! ^^

[silver wasp]

look at that rizz

[cobalt yoke]

very cute cat, looks like my cat from when i was a kid

[minor nymph]

Our entire community was built with the idea that you can do productive things with your time.
Learn a skill, make a game, try programming, art, music, anything.
This entire sideshow is the opposite of that.
So stop engaging with it.

[jolly sky]

Incoming meme

[hasty grail]

https://tenor.com/view/arting-siamese-cat-gigachad-ambatukam-ambasing-gif-26293326

[cobalt yoke]

literally why i havent bought factorio yet, still waiting for the day

[outer cobalt]

Mindustry exists

[jolly sky]

Also catto

[cobalt yoke]

satisfactory exists

https://tenor.com/view/owl-gif-18430628440676957865

[reef geyser]

I think I remember something about them saying it would never go on sale. This was years ago though.

[late bane]

honestly satisfactory is a mid game

[muted robin]

well considering they got half of their signatures based on controversy blaming him for their movement failing i'm not surprised

[nova bough]

cats?

[late bane]

Bird chat, post your pet drones

[reef geyser]

See above, we done with that now

[cobalt yoke]

i agree sorta. When you follow the main path and shit, its boring asf. But setting myself mini goals and building my ideas made the game so much more fun

[opal bronze]

bravest chatter of all time

[late bane]

Nah people here don't dog pile

very productive time use

Member when games weren't 1120gigs

(how did i even i didnt even finish the storyline)

[muted robin]

god i really gotta give up on trying to participate in any convo that began >30 min ago 🤣

[nova bough]

goblin wants my dinner

[muted robin]

or like 15 min depending how many people are involved

[late bane]

largest game i own is like 10GB withoyt DLC

[late pond]

You know what someone should make?
A Satisfactory clone, but with fantasy elements.
A wizard factory, producing mana crystals with different elemental energies, and several different tiers of alchemical or necromantic reagents.

[late bane]

Aww is that pho

[late bane]

just a little

[ionic sleet]

damn now i want that

[nova bough]

instant pho, seeing if its any good

[cobalt yoke]

i was so close to making a satisfactory tower defence set in medieval with robots lmaoo

[opal bronze]

did want to briefly mention that video but i aint getting banned over it

[cobalt yoke]

you could build factories to produce different elements, and use them to power weapons