streamchat

[trim crater]

Sounds like Thor got some good sleep

[fluid dome]

Hell yeah

[kindred sedge]

[muted sleet]

omg... i was watching a vod and wondering why there was no chat this time.

[vast estuary]

oops

[strange ember]

It's not THAT bad... he's just writing a CYOA with a few thousand choices

Man gave himself about the most headache-inducing writing job possible

[muted sleet]

definitely

[trim anvil]

creative work can be a pain

[muted sleet]

especially under fire

hopefully he still enjoys it i burned out doing a very similar writing task once

youtube chat is looking better tonight ^_^

ofc the moment I mentioned that there was one arsehole lol

[gentle mortar]

Americans haven't wake up yet, about 6-8th mark it goes bonkers

[muted sleet]

I'm American xD

PST

[charred pendant]

I think I know what message you meant but what's the arsehole part of it?

[gentle mortar]

lmao

[trim anvil]

I find it impressive too. The whole drama was about an European initiative, what do Americans care. For all they know this won't affect them at all.

[muted sleet]

the ai guy with the potentially snarky attitude

[hazy storm]

Is that twitch or YouTube

[muted sleet]

I can answer that the grifters misinformation campaign has lead to believe that it will affect us. I still don't believe someone's opinions is enough to cancel

oh youtube sorry

[gentle mortar]

it can if it goes through, cause when it's a law in 1/3 of the worlds, it often propagates. But yeah I get what you say, it's crazy that majority of people who hates him/ makes jabs at him are Americans xdddd

[charred pendant]

Fair fair

[muted sleet]

yes that ^

basically thor was demonized as the sole person responsible for its failure but hes also kinda somehow had a rubber band effect on it.

i find it hard to believe hes the sole person lol i didnt even know it was going on the first time

but thats the story theyre tellin i guess

[trim anvil]

and from what I can tell he's actually been pretty instrumental in popularizing it because of the drama that it sparked. If he hadn't spoken up about it, chances are it would've died with a whimper

which is also hilarious.

[muted sleet]

^ yep. another belief is somehow hes also the savior of it to some people xD

antagonist

[charred pendant]

I think there's just too much to "not care", it's not just the campaign. I think this side is ignoring most good faith attempts at wishing for better communication. The things he's doing are normal and sometimes people make mistakes but not taking any accountability at all is bad for longevity. That's how communities fall.

[trim anvil]

uh, I probably should stop talking about this before another zealot takes it as their cue

[flat root]

Depends on the law, some of it is based on how convenient it is to adapt, and that's not always a good thing.

California had laws on warning customers if any carcinogens might be part of a product... the problem is that the sheer list of items labelled as such made it so absurd, that every product got labelled somewhere with warnings regardless of whether or not any such chemicals actually were even in the products.

So the labels just accomplished nothing and get ignored, while being wasteful. Amusingly, the very ink these labels are made from include chemicals on that carcinogens list...

[muted sleet]

fair

wait what

So the labels just accomplished nothing and get ignored, while being wasteful. Amusingly, the very ink these labels are made from include chemicals on that carcinogens list...

huh didnt know this.

[simple hawk]

Oh man, yeah, and there were some products that the PRODUCT ITSELF wasn't a problem at all, but it was the packaging itself that used a particular ink that if consumed was carcinogenic and thus the product had to have the Cali "THIS GIVES YE CANCER" sticker on it.

[muted sleet]

should i be concerned xD

[flat root]

Other laws can be enforced but completely ignored outside their domains, even though they affect business across the country. The state of Colorado has laws on occupations with 'The Colorado Equal Pay for Equal Work Act' which has a lot of restrictions on hiring practices and other requirements, to the point that many jobs that are remote and online just don't hire anyone from Colorado to avoid the law.

[trim anvil]

I'm almost certain that a single breath of second hand cigarette smoke is way more harmful for you than most of that shit

[muted sleet]

true

and im asthmatic so its waaaaay worse..

[trim anvil]

oh I feel ya

as an asthmatic whose entire family smokes for some dumb stupid reason

[proud depot]

Dammit thor

not that

[muted sleet]

feeling nostalgic since i haven't used game maker in like 15 years q.q

[gloomy forge]

peepoArrive yo hope everyone is doing good

[flat root]

The problem was that the California law didn't take into account sufficient degree of risk and quantity with these chemicals. It's like being afraid a Banana will give you radiation poisoning. Yes, technically bananas are radioactive... just not in any way that actually matters. The amount of bananas required to eat to kill you from radiation poisoning would have long since killed you from other problems.

[gloomy forge]

today I'm gonna gigawork on my gamejam thing.

[proud depot]

the other part was companies not wanting to put in the work and thus putting the warning on everything

[muted sleet]

Oh im not hyper concerned about it since its a small amount its just something i didn't know. (the ink on the label thing)

thor has that chill watch while you work vibe xD fortunately Im not working at 1am ...

[flat root]

The more likely result, even if laws were made regarding live service games, that many of these games would just... not be available in the EU rather than deal with the hassle.

Imagine trying to make Geoguessr functionally playable if Google Maps went down and the game had to end...

[gloomy forge]

Not gonna to happen in the western world, but when it comes to the chinese market you're right.

[proud depot]

we got one on stream complaining that the dev streams are just thor messing with config files. This is for a minecraft server, its nothing but config files

[trim anvil]

hilarious.

[muted sleet]

Imagine trying to make Geoguessr functionally playable if Google Maps went down and the game had to end...

that wouldnt be as hard as you think there's several map rendering apis that run locally though it probably wouldnt include the look around feature.

thats a silly one development has alot of config files... its not all programming do you know how much tweaking a platformer game takes to feel right?

[simple hawk]

The uh, the problem with that is, the PetaBytes of street view data.

[flat root]

The look around feature is the primary gameplay? If you don't have the street view, you don't have the actual game?-

[muted sleet]

yeah the look around / street view is what i meant I dont play geo guesser much though I was imagining a library of images of the location without look around / street view

[simple hawk]

Although sure, you could just browse and take 1 360 photo on a place. The problem is that data isn't hosted natively, I believe that game actually goes to Google Street View live instead of just caching it.

[muted sleet]

yeah it would be a stripped down version of the game for sure

like mobile games xD

well offline ones

[gloomy forge]

There is a perfect (lazy) solution for writing legislation that benefits critics and fans alite. Make it a rule that holds publishers liable to consider the data that people buy as goods. UNLESS they write down a reason why to take away the game. 85% of games, even the ones on the smartphone, can be played without an online connection. Have publishers/developers write a document where they give reason on why making the data available forever to be impossible. License of certain images, maybe some server sided issues. I'd rather have this than illegal EULAs, according to countries in the DACH that don't fully respect them.

Because its something that devs have to consider, its not costly to make "offline" versions of things. People were mad at Ubi for taking down The Crew and rightfully so, the tragedy here is that a fix was easy. This makes Ubisoft consider alternatives.

Thats just the first step, form there on, consumer protection agencies in europe can then bring on critics and arguments for more legistlature. The best perfect solution would be to make SKG a real world political movement that is financed for fans, by fans. Hold interviews with politicians and developers from all around europe and the globe. Let them explain why the movement itself is a good force.

Essaying.

[muted sleet]

imagining a library of HDRI 360 views of a location to guess based on limited info

[gloomy forge]

Its not just the problem of the filesize of the panorama, but the amount of variety.

[muted sleet]

does geo guesser not have repeats?

[flat root]

Eventually it must have repeats simply since its finite, but functionally no.

[muted sleet]

also isnt the game free?

[gloomy forge]

Of course, but they're extremly uncommon considering it pulls from many places.

No, to unlock 80-90% of features you gonna pay 5 dollars I think.

[muted sleet]

I'm not saying it'd be the same exact game itd be a playable basically limited one. I'm also just doing it as a thought exercise to how it could be played without the server not to argue the point.

[gloomy forge]

Hey nobody here is writing in a way to "argue" we're all just giving ideas.

[muted sleet]

oh no offense taken ^^ debate would be a better word.

[simple hawk]

Monkeypaw - now that the data is considered "The Good", people can sell USB sticks of downloaded copies of the game at the MSRP of the game itself, because the data itself is the "Goods Purchased" when you buy/sell/trade the game.

[gloomy forge]

I get that people are fed up about it and its a heated topic. especially because of the dramaslop and what Thor and in parts the commnity goes through.

[muted sleet]

the way you worded that sounds like a drug deal xD

[gloomy forge]

Wasnt it 770/2019 and 771/2019 that dictate and already regulates this?

[muted sleet]

its fine I dont want to heat people up over it either.

[glad flame]

Hey I dont think Geo guesser would be affected because any Laws/ regulations that might come from this movement would not affect existing games.

And the movement is talking about when games reach their end of life so when games are no longer profitable for companies to continue to run. It would fall to a die hard community to keep the game alive rather than the company the movement just wants that option as currently we pay $60 + for a license that can be taken away at any time. So for me its either make the language clear on the front end that rather than the word buy it is rent or license or build games that when a company no longer cares about the game a community can still keep it alive if they wish.

Again not here to cause hate but thats my understanding

[gloomy forge]

But this would also imply that we never see a game that will function like geoguessr ever again.

[muted sleet]

yeah im a bit cautious about what i say about these things because of the tendency to heat up. glad to have a friendly discussion and brainstorming any day.

[flat root]

Even if you were correct, it means no game like Geoguessr would ever be sold in the EU again, it simply would never be made available to the EU populace. Further, it's not actually not the case that the movement only intend future games to be affected, since they specifically want Ubisoft to be punished regard the game The Crew

[glad flame]

i Dont think so, not really because as long as it is profitable they will make it and when it is no longer profitable then that responsibility to host the game would fall to a community as long as the functionality can be passed on

[gloomy forge]

If you write your arguments in a deescalating way yet people get mad at you than this is not a "you" problem. Everyone has the responsibility regarding their own emotions, including handling them.

[muted sleet]

honestly i do think that the hackers of the world would not let it die and game preservationists have made private servers already for some games. (although maybe not them directly xD)

[tribal canyon]

How would that work if for instance the shutdown was because Google stoped offering an API for Street view?

[glad flame]

thats different thats a lawsuit going through at the moment and is just a use case made by the movement they are not connected

[flat root]

"They are not connected" It's... literally the major focal point.

[muted sleet]

well if the company doesnt provide it it can be reverse engineered

aslong as thats not also made illegal x.x

[flat root]

"It can be reverse engineered"
I am not having a bunch of random weirdos Pokemon Go'ing the world for a dead game.

[glad flame]

yeah i can see how it looks like that becasuwe when the movement comes up then the example given is the crew but strictly speaking they are not one in the same

[muted sleet]

I can not tell if you've taken offense or not if so i apologize.

[gloomy forge]

I mean the easiest fix here that the previous licenseholders give full endorsement to the fan community, on the other hand the fan community need to pay the financial burden on their own packs towards the company that hosts the data.

Kinda like paying for reparations.

[muted sleet]

interesting

[gloomy forge]

Its all good, I never take offense here of what people say because 100% of the time it has been pretty chill.

[flat root]

"Strictly speaking"
I would advise avoiding 'weasel words' or other terms that attempt to get around responsibility for the claims you are making. If you believe what you are saying, say them completely. Say you believe there is zero relation between them (the movement's own main page disproves this though). If you don't agree and think there is a relation as I stated, you can concede the argument.

[muted sleet]

all good here as well ^^ i'm a problem solver i treat these things like puzzles

[glad flame]

yeah 100% the finacial birden should move to the community in those situations but the issue that the movement is highlighting (At least imo) is that option doesnt exist currently

[gloomy forge]

And guess what, I support the initiative. Signed it almost a year ago.

[gloomy forge]

It does exist though, communities already support large datacenters financially already. See Nexusmods that is financed by the community for the community. Darkone once stated that he had to pay 500k USD per month for nexusmods to stay alive.

[muted sleet]

I also support the concept but i cannot sign it. so it doesnt matter technically

I dont play live service games much ...

[tribal canyon]

Same here, pro game preservation but feel like the initiative isn't the right option for this

[gloomy forge]

Yeah thats fine, I was just coming from the perspective from someone that signed it, but I'm pretty chill. No need to be emotional.

[flat root]

An option to fix Geoguessr in the event that Google Maps went down or shut down their services that let Geoguessr work... also can just be remade into a new game itself.

[muted sleet]

But if SMB1 on switch emulator counts as live service id be sad if that whole emulator dissapeared lol.

[gloomy forge]

If you guys are from the US please don't say "I wanted to sign it" thats directly meddling with foreign affairs.

[muted sleet]

havent directly said that i would sign it?

[flat root]

Nothing stops me today from making my own Geoguessr other than the absence of money to do so + all of Google's data.

If Geoguessr stopped functioning, and I was utterly determined to bring it back, got enough money to rebuild it, and all the data for it... I could just make my own Geoguessr?

[tribal canyon]

UK here so had our own petition

[gloomy forge]

I was just saying/implying so nobody does it

relax relax all good.

[flat root]

The idea of the solution being putting all the financial responsibility on the consumer is... already achievable? Just make your own game?

[gloomy forge]

Made coffee.

[tribal canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/three-uk-greggs-real5g-5g-vegan-gif-16421043

[trim crater]

Can sign it, wont do it.
No interest in online / live service games.

• the all things that possibly can go wrong with it. Simple as.

[subtle gate]

📜

[glad flame]

Im sorry for using weasel words its not my intent to offend with my language. i just wanted to raise the thought that based on my own reading and looking at the situation geo guesser itself would not be affected.

again i know alot of people jump on the band wagon to start arguments and use movements like these as a front for that but i am seriously just trying to have a discourse and hearing another opinion really helps with that

[muted sleet]

is that what the confusion is about

[gloomy forge]

Thats a very bad allegory I feel, because that only means you own your own work, and it also depends with what engine you made the game with.

[muted sleet]

is it really just that 'law' is involved but the 'concept' is agreed to just wrong approach?

[gloomy forge]

Gigavalid, if you don't care and say "meh" thats neat.

[lapis tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/sips-tea-drink-stare-gif-15410130

I'm just waiting to see what happens now.

[flat root]

I am referring to Flash_ah's statement that all the responsibility to repair something like Geoguessr would fully fall on the consumer in repairing it, which... at that point, just make a new Geoguessr

[gloomy forge]

Ahhh yeah, sorry for being silly

[flat root]

If a community could come together to fix Geoguessr if Google Maps went down... they could just make a new game entirely that does what Geoguessr does. 🤷

[muted sleet]

yeah pretty much in the perfect world these things wouldnt dissapear to begin with and both sides were kept stable.

[tribal canyon]

To me yea, I fully encourage Devs to focus on long term but also forcing them to with laws stiffels alot of people if what they want to do isn't supported by the regulation

[gloomy forge]

Gonna wait years the EU is slow af hopefully enough time to make SKG a legitimate consumer movement in terms of optics. Not just a sign up that got boosted by many creators that don't even live in the EU.

[simple hawk]

And more people making games is always a good thing.

[trim crater]

What bothered me, turned off me from it, was people screaming about "all games", when i asked which games.
Then they got angry and mad, i just stopped caring.

[lapis tartan]

Yeah, that nugget of knowledge tempers my opinions on this.

[muted sleet]

well thats why i tend to ay i support the concept I know its not feasible in all scenarios but for preservation purposes if it were allowed to be opened up or released to the community to take over or like run LAN that would be preferable to me.

[lapis tartan]

At this rate, it's like sports fans trying to guess what'll happen in a game years down the line.

[muted sleet]

i also dont really endorse the preditory use of it where the corps intentionally discontinue the game as planned obsolescence so you go buy the new game though. I see enough of that from apple lol.

[simple hawk]

... Without taking into consideration that teams are a collection of players, and the players are all human and sometimes a team can be at their peak or they can be absolutely rubbish. xD

[muted sleet]

I appreciate the ability to talk about it and calmly get both sides of the fence though.

[reef geyser]

I play em, but I do so knowing that it's a possibility that the purveyor of the service can revoke that service. It's a risk I as a consumer know I'm taking when I buy. If the purveyor revokes service in a way that I disagree with (too early, or without exploring other options) then I vote with my dollars, and am more wary/less likely to purchase from that purveyor in the future.

Zero government or legislative involvement required. Caveat emptor. I don't need government forcing the pizza shop to make tasty pizza. If the pizza starts getting non-tasty, I shop at another pizza shop of my own volition.

I tend to be extremely wary of running to legislation to achieve an effect, even one that I want. It's not a band-aid to shape the world into what I think it should be, it's an extremely serious civilizational element that represents forcing people to act a certain way. I believe in always erring on the side of less of that rather than more, when at all possible. I believe that in general, people are too quick to want to use "make it a law" as an option when regarding problems they want to solve.

[gloomy forge]

I'm very much lurkwarm on anything SKG because while its in my interest, some of the laws can already be applied retroactively. Theres also the moral argument to make some older games work forever already. I'm really glad that this discussion about whether or not some games are digital goods happens and the legalities of games in terms of ownership rights because the same thing happened pretty much 150 years ago with real products. It also legitimized unions too

[lapis tartan]

Also not considering the money affecting things behind the scenes from their fancy stadium suites.

[trim crater]

Whoa, that's a lot text in smart words.
I get it, everyone of us have a favorite game or game series.
Wouldn't want to enforce things on others, just because it was removed, but since i mostly if not only, play single player games, i can't complain.
Sure i would be sad if they got removed, but i wont make it others issue.

[gloomy forge]

In a way, "make it a law" is itself with what you say. Law becomes culture because it forces people to act in a certain way. So the trend alone can be considered worrying and it can snowball into more authority being imposed on you from the government.

[muted sleet]

I get that it has good intentions and that it could be difficult on the corporate side though.

[gloomy forge]

Also "caveat hampter" is something I do with all my purchases but to be honest, i often buy things on a discount because I haven't tried them. May it be video games or just groceries.

[fluid dome]

Morning

[gloomy forge]

Heya hope ya doing good

[fluid dome]

Doing alright

[muted sleet]

yeah i wait for price decrease i cant afford 80$ new games or whatever theyre going for now I dont even look cause itd make me sad lol

[fluid dome]

Just struggling with some writers block rn

[glad flame]

TBF i do think that is the only way any real change would come about when you say 'I Vote with my dollars' .Like as much as i can wish this movement will make any serious change.

It is low, but the fact that it has been enough for triple A studios to pay some attention and issue a statement then it is something being discussed and thats the key to finding a solution.

[reef geyser]

Place where I get a lot of my meat from is running a deal this week, 30lbs of pork spare ribs for $22.

[gloomy forge]

thats a crazy good price.

[lapis tartan]

Buy low and freeze is always a good investment.

[gloomy forge]

buy high sell low. Stonks gonna be mega stonk.

[reef geyser]

Yep. Also spiral cut hams for $1.1LB

[flat root]

Triple A studios issuing a statement in of itself isn't exactly the big deal for that reason as you might think. They're going to respond to anything and everything that gets enough signatures and involves video games.

[gloomy forge]

I'm hungy now dunno if I go for doordash today or if I cook a soup. I still have veggies and wanted to try out garlic.

[muted sleet]

I'm surprised Ive had friends shun me for even mentioning that the company may not have the capacity to keep games running indefinitely as even a thought of trying to see the other side ... pleasantly surprised nobody did that here.

[gloomy forge]

wtf, that sucks.

[flat root]

The US government once answered a petition regarding building The Death Star because enough people jokingly signed the petition, and the government joking answered regarding the idea mostly on answering how absurdly expensive it would be and clearly how unethical it would be such as "The administration does not support blowing up planets"

[lapis tartan]

I'm sorry, whenever I hear Triple A studios...

[muted sleet]

lol

[reef geyser]

Have a cookie bar

[fluid dome]

AAA is called that because you go aaaaaaaa

[flat root]

https://petitions.obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/response/isnt-petition-response-youre-looking/

[muted sleet]

I never heard this but i do not doubt it somehow.

[flat root]

For anyone curious about that petition, it's quite an amusing read

[gloomy forge]

kinda looks weirdge but also kinda nice

[flat root]

The government hilariously answered it in detail as if it were legitimate

They clearly knew it wasn't given the joking title, but they ran with it

[reef geyser]

Yeah I didn't have any chocolate chips, so I had to whip up a substitute chocolate fudge sauce to go on top. And since I hadn't baked with it before, I didn't spread it all the way to the sides due to the pan I was using, in case it flowed over the edges.

[glad flame]

bet it still tasted good though

[muted sleet]

Im going to have ot read that when im more awake,. fading fast its 2am x.x Nicee to meet all of you actually sane and understanding people.

[lapis tartan]

"Instructions unclear, put cookie dough on sheet pan, made sheet of cookie"

[reef geyser]

The cookie base has butter, but the chocolate chip sub I used also used butter as the fat component, so the middle turned into a cookie cobbler.

[gloomy forge]

I'd eat half of them not gonna lie. I made cookies similar but they were just tiny snackies. I'm more of a DIY waffles person.

waffles are so freaking goated, especially if you have a cooking form that makes them friend/heart shaped.

[reef geyser]

Aww man I make waffles sometimes, I like to make a few dozen and freeze them.

[muted sleet]

yeah.. the extremeism around here sucks lately especially in cali q.q

[reef geyser]

Usually if I have a jug of milk juuuuust starting to turn.

[gloomy forge]

Yeah thats so weird, like SKG is EU only why would people get mad at you

[glad flame]

oooo what a wonderful creation i always think some of the most intersting foods come from when you run out of the actual ingredient and have to sub something in

[muted sleet]

its the agree with me or else mentality

its poison spreading around here

[gloomy forge]

Yeah thats peak pepeg mentality. Mob rule and all.

like I could 100% support the current thing and if someone just says "I don't really know so I go for 0%" I'm like "Ok, if you feel like you change your mind its saul goodman"

I feel mod rule happens because people don't feel like they should be the master of their own emotions, rather they wanna get dictated how they should feel.

[muted sleet]

im pretty open minded too i have no need to push my opinions on someone else

[gloomy forge]

Just a silly assumption though.

I let the "mod rule" typo in should a mod read this.

[trim crater]

Time to learn and make games, cya pals, have a good one

[flat root]

I know you meant 'mob rule', but the typo hilariously could still work

[trim crater]

almost typed goon

https://tenor.com/view/goodbye-chat-bye-chat-cat-sushi-gif-24629010

[fluid dome]

Alternatively, deliberately go against the grain to piss off the mob >:3

[muted sleet]

.. i just got that i was like huh thats a weird name to bring up here ... i need sleep

[lapis tartan]

The pattern usually goes, a group of people gather for a cause or an idea. Then you have fringe extremists push that idea or cause to it's final extreme. That's often really bad as history shows.

[gloomy forge]

Thats why we can't have nice things.

[lapis tartan]

Yep, stop listening to the loud angry people telling you to hate people. We keep forgetting... WE ARE PEOPLE!

[gloomy forge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QereR0CViMY

[lapis tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/soylent-green-the-impossible-burger-youve-got-to-tell-them-gif-15161162

[fluid dome]

https://tenor.com/view/monty-python-tisbutascratch-knight-funny-gif-9050905

Something has just occurred to me regarding the flesh wound monty python sketch

[lapis tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/condescending-oh-really-you-dont-say-tell-me-more-sarcastic-gif-4978724910393183512

[glad flame]

https://tenor.com/view/surprised-confused-what-lean-forward-wait-what-gif-12418590

[fluid dome]

The Black Knight, when pressed to move, says, "I move for no man." And he directly makes eye contact with the king of the Britons. This implies that he would have moved, if a woman wanted to cross.

[gloomy forge]

Yeah thats part of the subtext

let me tell you, quite a lot of Monthy Python jokes are structured in this way.

[lapis tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/éowyn-i-am-no-man-no-man-lord-of-the-rings-lotr-gif-11834502

[gloomy forge]

Loved the scene, the entire movie was GOAT, watched it recently the whole thing again in January

and the CG still hold up.

[fluid dome]

https://tenor.com/view/montypython-draw-flesh-wound-sword-call-it-a-draw-gif-5447899

[gloomy forge]

Probably the best CG ever besides the team that worked on both The Thing from 1982 and Jurassic Park.

why u laugh I was serious. LOTR is great.

[fluid dome]

I love The Thing, both versions. I also really appreciate how they used the Norway base in the newer one

[lapis tartan]

When you said that, I thought of monty pythons 2 d animations being CG

Ignore my idiot brain.

[gloomy forge]

I meant LOTR, sorry for my lack of communication skills I'm gonna workge on that.

[fluid dome]

The nerf of being German

[gloomy forge]

thats so true.

[lapis tartan]

More people need to excuse our brains wandering. I think people would be less angry.

[gloomy forge]

we don't really talk we just make stuff, usually in the form of something that works for the industry.

[fluid dome]

https://tenor.com/view/jojo-jojos-bizarre-adventures-the-best-in-the-world-guns-gif-15566867

[gloomy forge]

Yeah true, more tolerance of braindiversity included with your argument. Theres been studies that show basically no brain is wired the same. Everyone is different in some sense.

[fluid dome]

I just love monster designs in general

Which is why I love the horror genre so much

Amazing creativity

[gloomy forge]

Yeah, I feel fans gave the 2011 The Thing movie too much flak, it had insane atmosphere.

the 1982 movie is more suspenseful and more cleverly written.

[trim anvil]

Guile is looking hella different.

[lapis tartan]

Exactly, It made my partner happy when Thor mentioned Aphantasia.

[gloomy forge]

Its protoguile.

[lapis tartan]

I'm a 1 and they're a 5 the difference is obvious the more we live together.

[gloomy forge]

You can practice Aphantasia in some ways by understanding the underlying principles of a given object. Like when you grab a glass and you don't look at it. There is a high chance you don't grab it wrongly.

[real cradle]

To be fair, they were following up on a classic, and it's very difficult to do that WITHOUT being heavily criticized.

[lapis tartan]

Yeah, I can use my imagination to navigate in the dark, while they might knock things over just stretching out. They don't visualize their surroundings as they move.

[gloomy forge]

Yeah of course, I didn't mean to imply they were all silly I'm just chill and obviously I think criticising movies and art is not really consequential but of course I've been gigacritical to things.

[gloomy forge]

I don't wanna downplay anything but that image is kinda silly. Because the difference between 1 and 2 is none. 2 is basically a different artstyle than 1. If you think of photorealism and high fidelity as an artstyle you can bridge the gap between 1 and 2 even though you were incapable of thinking about 1 before.

Just to give an example of me being critical about stuff I'm just feeling chatty.

Theres lots of these mindhacks.

[lapis tartan]

Oh you're right, it's more of a bare bones example.

[worthy ivy]

there's an even earlier one - 1951s the thing from another world
but I've not got round to it yet

I rank Carpenter's the thing very highly - got to be in the top ten movies of all time I reckon?

[waxen comet]

is it aphantasia if i cant really conceptualize a perfectly OC character

i always take ideas off of other character designs

[gloomy forge]

Yeah seems reasonable, The Thing is phenomenal. I once pissed someone off real bad for saying that the game is goated and pretty much sits in the top spot for a various of reasons. Its a objective pillar of what accounts for quality horror. Their logical response was "how dare you say this if all movies should be allowed to exist". I want that skill to just not read anything someone writes and responding with something totally different . Or if theres confusion just asking questions to clear up things it certainly became a lost art.

[lapis tartan]

It touches more on if you can close your eyes and see images or even movies, audio and dialogue. Like I got a voice in my head that reads out what I type. (Berates me when I misspell a word.)

[worthy ivy]

yeah, it is objectively high quality: pacing is spot on, cast is strong, Kurt is always the GOAT, soundtrack is phenonomenal, physical effects that still look better than the best CGI today, (and that shllwl-shwlll-shllwl-shwlll-shllwl-shwlll sound the little tentacles make when they whip about...

it's got it all
I consider it the Labyrinth of horror movies 🙂

[gloomy forge]

I actually looked at some artblogs right now when it comes to cinema and I just had to factcheck that The Thing from 1982 did not use CGI. they didn't I was wrong. Someone once told me it did and I believed it for decades

check yourself before you wreck yourself.

[worthy ivy]

I think the first use of a completely CG sequence is Star Trek II?

there's CG in Tron from that same year, but it's just bits composited in IIRC? (haven't seen OG Tron in forever - must dig out the DVD)

can you imagine the first Alien with a crappy CG alien?
physical fx forever!!! 🙂

[split tulip]

https://tenor.com/view/both-agree-yes-good-gif-4591420

physical and digital together get some amazing results

they both have strengths and weaknesses

[gloomy forge]

Yeah there is use for good CG BUT it requires the same amount of work as traditional special effects.

https://tenor.com/view/bill-nighy-davy-jones-pirates-of-the-carribbean-no-angry-gif-12484857

movie is 22 years old.

perfect blend of traditional and CG.

[split tulip]

there's neat tricky to why it works so well: he's not human. we have no reference for what an octopus-face-man-thing looks like so the brain accepts it way more easily. try to do a human with the same level of tech and you'd notice immediatly

[gloomy forge]

Yeah exactly, uncanny valley

[worthy ivy]

yarp, give you that one - they might be big-budget bubblegum, but those pirates movies are pretty damn good 😆

[gloomy forge]

if you don't like someone just tell him "you look like CG from a 100 million dollar budget movie" and then leave.

[split tulip]

even modern cgi can't imitate faces properly. it's so noticable

[worthy ivy]

your face is like the CG from Dune (1984)

oooof... brutal!

[gloomy forge]

Yeah the technology isn't there yet. made big steps but its still recognizeable. What matters is cinematography/lighting

I mean they tried. I'd rather have bad but novel CG for their time rather than generic CG slop that conveys no emotion.

[split tulip]

there was an attempt

[gloomy forge]

graphic design is my passion.

[split tulip]

that entire movie is wild

[gloomy forge]

Yeah David Lynch is crazy, super smart and creative guy and you can tell they pushed themselves to the limits.

the passion is palpable. Denis adaption is great but it has flaws. Sometimes it feels too "normal high quality movie". Dune is also not your "normal novel" if you understand what I mean.

[worthy ivy]

I find that by and large, people who read Dune love it and people that haven't read Dune hate it

I imagine watching Lynch's Dune without having read the book is the equivalent to watching Twin Peaks 😆

wouldn't know myself - was one of the first proper books I read

[gloomy forge]

Damn kinda insane entry point to read Dune as one of your first novels. Phenomenal story, LOTR of science fiction.

worldbuilding very similarly top notch.

[worthy ivy]

yeah, was a big reader as a child - I bought my own copy of the hobbit when I was 5

parents just let me loose in the library to read whatever the hell I wanted

and the stupid library lady refused to let me take books out of the adult section (well... not stupid in retrospect, I was only like 6 or 7!) but my mam and da went down there and had words with them and said "he reads whatever he wants, full stop" and that was that

thinking about it, that's probably where I get my healthy distrust of "authority" from 😆

[gloomy forge]

Right now I'm working on my "only one" character for the gamejammies

[worthy ivy]

I had an idea for an "only one" game for the jam but implementing it requires me to actually finish learning basic Godot which I've been putting off for ages now

how long does the jam run for this time?

[gloomy forge]

2 weeks.

yeah no need to work or learn, do it at your own pace, if you only learned like a bunch of coding or writing then thats already a huge success.

as for me, I didn't sign up yet, I'm just working on the sidelines. I did post some art though.

Its super dumb and cheap because I don't have the skills but thats why I do it, actually just try something I never did before.

[hard jackal]

Do it. Sign up. Commit. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[gloomy forge]

m-maybe

[hard jackal]

Every Jam, we get people who just started their dev journey with that Jam. You have nothing to lose and so much to gain. Even if you don't finish your game, as long as you submit your game documentation, you’ll receive some feedback. Trust yourself. I'm sure you'll do great!

[gloomy forge]

I also found a great color palette from the pico 8 team.

[worthy ivy]

might be a bit of a stretch in two weeks - just learned about "popping" variables (which seemed weird for some reason? surely variable should stay in the array in case something else needs to read it?)

and 90s Acorn BASIC with DMA Sprite graphics was the last serious coding I did

am finding modern languages and environments rather confusing and baroque!

will give it go if I can clear my mixing backlog this weekend

[gloomy forge]

And not only that, the biggest success already is that because of some of the "pressure" I kinda learned how to make stuff more clean because I'm super messy and can't draw really.

[waxen comet]

im so giga doomed

[shell osprey]

just learned about "popping" variables (which seemed weird for some reason? surely variable should stay in the array in case something else needs to read it?)
what's the context? Is this like some recommended code style, or just a language feature?
Because if the latter, then yes, you can add and remove things to arrays.
If the former... well maybe there's some logic to it, but making it a foundation of your code style seems a bit peculiar

[fierce bison]

Here is the dumbest "code review" I've seen today, for the programmers in the room, can you quickly tell me why this is?
https://youtu.be/cRZKeGnVfpo?si=5HjGrQEgUS2NRqa8&t=1405

If this is the next generation of programmers, we're screwed

[shell osprey]

Which bit do you take issue with? The counter to what's being pointed out is not that the code couldn't be written more simply, but that it was just the first half of something more complex that had yet to be written

[fierce bison]

the guy's argument that the switch needed to be an if statement xD i'm laughing my a off, it's literally commented on the switch why it is the way i is

the code is very clearly self documenting code that makes it obvious there are other 'case's to be added in that switch

[waxen comet]

its best practice to include a piece of code for a swtich case to fall back

when i write switch cases, i usually have the default:
break;
code in my switch cases

[fierce bison]

idk gamemaker code, normally that's a 'default' statement in C++/C#, but that's not the biggest issue

i explained a bit earlier what the issue is, the code is self documenting, but the brainlet reviewing it is clueless

[waxen comet]

having a do nothing code is ok

as long as it serves some purpose

a self documenting code is also great too yea

[fierce bison]

these people are something else

the definition of Dunning-Krueger effect

[shell osprey]

Look I hate to be a pedant but self-documenting code refers to when it doesn't have comments that explain what it does

[serene valley]

I think it's in the C standard that a switch statement should skip to the end and do nothing if none of the cases match

[fierce bison]

the "reviewer" thinks that '1' in the case is semantically a boolean when in fact it is an enum. The idiocy is immesurable

[gilded tiger]

Oh my god, that hurt to watch

[fierce bison]

I'm sorry

[waxen comet]

still standard practice to have it for a just in case the switch case is being funky

i always have code thats like
ok make sure you dont do something funky bec of an edge case

[serene valley]

I leave it out if im doing actual enums

Since it gives me compiler warnings

Using default doesn't

[gloomy forge]

oof.

[fierce bison]

yeah it depends if uncovered cases are an unexpected state, in which you put no default, or they are expected and not an error state, in which you use a default. It's all about intent

but can we focus on how they thought that '1' was semantically a boolean? xD

I can't even

[gloomy forge]

The issue really is that I'm a pepeg, don't know a lot about coding. I simply assume that "do nothing" indicates that when the character does nothing, then there may be another call of an array. "Do nothing" here meaning "the player choses to not act".

But I don't know and the way the reviewer talks here makes me think "maybe he is correct". In a sense, people criticise Thor for sounding like an authority, but these people do the same as well.

[fierce bison]

you will want to "do nothing" so that you don't forget that in that case you really want to do nothing. If you ommit that code, and you later read it, it looks like you just forgot about that case. writing it the way it is written serves the purpose of showing "it is intentional" that we do nothing in that case

this is what self documenting code is

[shell osprey]

In the example in the vid, "do nothing" isn't code but a comment, it's just there to inform a programmer about intent. The actual code is an empty switch statement, which after being compiled results in no code getting executed

[fierce bison]

exactly

whoever is reviewing the code is a brainlet, they took CS in college and think they can code review someone who does it for a job

[gloomy forge]

Ahhh I see, kinda like knowing when you're driving on a road and looking at the signposts. When you see a sign indicating that the road ends you know when you should stop the car vs people removing the sign. Removing the sign can lead risking potential damage and injury. Am I right in saying this?

[fierce bison]

yeah you are close, you're getting it

[gloomy forge]

Oh neat.

I never really programmed that was and I never coded in C or GML and never made a big game.

I know LUA because of Pico8 but just beginner stuff.

I do know that when you compile your game in Pico8, all comments are removed so its only for the developer to have a sort of post-it note.

[fierce bison]

no only comments are removed, but code that does nothing as well, dead code as they say

it's part of the optimization step of compilers

[gloomy forge]

ohhh, i never heard of that.

Makes sense though, kinda like "making it concise" by removing bloat.

[fierce bison]

yeah

[gloomy forge]

I don't see any of this as an issue to be honest. People probably only make videos because its there the money is.

[fierce bison]

it's slander

[gloomy forge]

Kinda sucks though, people who don't know coding to this extend like me kinda fall for it.

[winged knoll]

“Do nothing” is intent

Hello

[gloomy forge]

[umbral gazelle]

People are really pushing the boundaries of fair use and abuse it to commit malicious acts. So many videos on youtube where i can say for sure that they dont intended to actually be fair use just using it as ashield

[gloomy forge]

i like the clown nose

[winged knoll]

I am a clown yes

[gloomy forge]

Intend as in "its good that the coder included this statement" right?

[drifting vigil]

I mean this wave is larger than most but it is standard drama YouTube

[shell osprey]

"intent" just means what the person who wrote the code was thinking when they did it

[drifting vigil]

I’ve watched at least a dozen of these videos and they’re mostly slop but I don’t think they say much of anything non-factual

[shell osprey]

code style and comments can indicate how the code is "intended" to function

[winged knoll]

No, sorta mean that it’s an indicator that this code block is meant to not perform any actions

[gloomy forge]

Ahhh I see I think I get it now. Just like 98% of all the drama it seems inconsequential to me.

[shell osprey]

which at times is not how the code actually functions (the code has a bug) but figuring out how to resolve this is easier because you know what it was supposed to do (the intent was made clear)

[fierce bison]

exactly, if you remove it it just looks like an oversight

[gloomy forge]

like nothingburger stuff.

[winged knoll]

For example sometimes you have a queue , and you want to handle the queue once there’s 10 items in it, you “do nothing” when the queue is less than 10 items

[gloomy forge]

Hmm, damn I guess thats where the "coding experience" kicks in. What do you do when its more than 10 items?

[shell osprey]

They jump on it as an example because it's a case where their simplified rewrite does function exactly as the original does, whilst looking vastly different, and this can be held up to people who don't program and they'll nod and clap

[drifting vigil]

Coming from a mechatronics standpoint calling a do nothing gives me anxiety

[fierce bison]

but still i don't know why you guys are focusing on the "do nothing" code and not on the fact that they think the '1' is a bool and they're trying to turn that switch into an if statement, without realizing it's actually an enum

which is a bigger mistake, shows they're completely clueless about the code they're reading

[gloomy forge]

Exactly I did fall for it. Its scummy. Is one way of writing better than the other? what would be the best way to do this?

[nova bough]

internet drama is clueless about something? gasp say it isnt so! /s

[shell osprey]

well as Cheshire is pointing out, the variable in this case isn't a boolean, so treating it as such just because it can work that way is actually detrimental to understanding how the code is functioning

[winged knoll]

Also coding convention usually is different in between companies

[gloomy forge]

Like I'm watching it and I just assume "everyone is doing mistakes" but I didn't think "Thors approach is valid". If that makes sense.

[gloomy forge]

The good thing right now is that I'm actually learning a lil bit.

[nova bough]

coding convention is good to an extent, and is called a best practice for reason

[shell osprey]

"valid" is subjective, is one thing

to some people "valid" is any way conceivable that results in the software working at runtime

[winged knoll]

Meh Capcom can release Monster Hunter without optimization and no one bat an eye

[shell osprey]

to others "valid" is the bestest neatest most perfectest way of writing the code

[winged knoll]

[gloomy forge]

And thats what I meant, what is the most perfectest way to write the code here?

[nova bough]

i had a coworker once that was a stickler for best practices, and would nitpick on the smallest of things. i did not enjoy working with that coworker.

[winged knoll]

Same

[gloomy forge]

I mean coding language is called language for a reason, I'd assume perfection doesn't exist in general.

[shell osprey]

switch statement, but with actual enums rather than integers

[gloomy forge]

because there is no "perfect" way to communicate.

[fierce bison]

yeah the hardcoded integers (magic numbers as we call them), still make the code harder to read than it should be

[nova bough]

ngl i use if/than/else a lot of the time because i just.... dont use switch statements

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[shell osprey]

comment conventions differ but standard practise is to write // TODO thing that i need to do later to make it more obvious that an empty switch case is placeholder for future additions

[gloomy forge]

I see, so the guy that criticises Thor is just talking about the whole "huge list of array" drama thing.

[lime flame]

Dang, I think I did something to get me banned on youtube XD rip

[winged knoll]

Valid, as long as you comment

Hello mr cat

[fierce bison]

at least you'd still treat the conditions in your if statements as enum comparisons rather than casting them all to bool like this nitwit does in the YT vid

[gloomy forge]

I learned about structs and longer arrays thanks to the drama though. Are enums the same as structs?

[nova bough]

i write in python and REXX mostly, so like.... i dont have to decare my stuff.

but, for python i do initialize arrays to make sure they're empty.

[gloomy forge]

I don't have a "noted" emote ready but I'm doing that

[shell osprey]

Nah, enums are just a way of labelling arbitrary values

[trim anvil]

[shell osprey]

At the core of any program you'll need to represent a bunch of stuff as a bunch of numbers, and enums are just a way of making that easier when coding that

[nova bough]

ohai, im a she/they tho

[gloomy forge]

Yeah at some point I'm getting into that, maybe somewhen I'm gonna actually code. At most I only worked with arrays but I didn't do any of the complex things, the biggest game I made for myself is 12kb including art and sound/music I made pico 8 is fun.

[winged knoll]

She/them/catto

[shell osprey]

Structs differ by being a collection of values. Different programming languages use this premise in different ways, but with lower level languages this typically means contiguous memory assignment for them, and proper use can result in faster execution

More broadly speaking though, structs just serve as a way to more cleanly organise stuff in your program

[gloomy forge]

Hmm, I'm honest, its over my head but I don't think i'm a fool for admitting that.

[nova bough]

most of the time, if im looking to improve performance, the best way to that is reduce any loops through the data. because im usually doing some script that goes through a ton of data - like 100k-millions of lines of data.

[shell osprey]

You can do a lot with arrays. Indeed, most everything in programming boils down to arrays under the hood

[gloomy forge]

I'm gonna read up about that.

[fierce bison]

you're explaining it like you're explaining it to someone who already knows what they are.
A better way to explain it is structs are like a burrito, they have everything in them, wrapped in a tight package

[shell osprey]

Your RAM is, in fact, just one big array

[gloomy forge]

yeah true.

[mellow silo]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/720751611139457104/1385060879178924063/lerolero-4x.gif

What's going on here?

[gloomy forge]

lerolero

[winged knoll]

C guys gonna have a field day with you

Pointers

[shell osprey]

Well they already got a vague summary from whatever Thor hate vid they watched, but I can bust out more analogies if they seem like they aren't understanding me 😅

[fierce bison]

it is an array though, pointers are just indexes in that array

[gloomy forge]

I understood that better so I guess you're right but I also respect Aspirants way because nobody talks down so thats cool.

I'm just inexperienced thats all. Only difference between me and others.

"guys be nice I'm new here"

[shell osprey]

Welll.... your pico8 experience already puts you above the majority lol

[fierce bison]

true that

[gloomy forge]

Yeah I love pico8, dunno but its ready easy and has good documentation, but its kinda like linux where that documentation is online.

[nova bough]

ew, reading documentation. only thing worse is reading installation manuals

[shell osprey]

Docs are love, docs are lief

All the answers reside within them

(Unless they're poorly written in which case rip bozo)

[gloomy forge]

Yeah but I need to do it because to know a language i need to understand the syntax and the vocabulary

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-19863752

[nova bough]

these are the worst, though
https://www.redbooks.ibm.com/domains/zsystems

put me to sleep

zzzz

[gloomy forge]

That text in the image btw

[fierce bison]

in this day and age, docs are what my chatgpt reads. Kinda similar to how vegetables is what my food eats

[shell osprey]

I'm too luddite to integrate ai into my workflow 😔

[gloomy forge]

I dont think its weird to know "manual coding" the only way i would use AI right now is to ask questions. using AI would mean for me that it works for me, I'd just be lazy if I'd do that.

[fierce bison]

eh, ai still sucks writing code, but giving me the TLDR for docs? priceless

[gloomy forge]

If I'd build a house and I'd had a hammer that could build the house for me, I'd being completly left in the dark if the house actually had the things in it that I wanted.

thats not how you learn stuff

@grok can you write in this chat for me I'm lazy

[fierce bison]

i'm not saying let chatgpt write code, but it is good at writing samples for how API is meant to be used, and giving the tldr for documentations

[gloomy forge]

AHHHH yeah that makes more sense, sorry.

I misread you entirely wrong.

[nova bough]

taking the code given by AI and tweaking it yourself is a pretty decent way to learn

[gloomy forge]

Didn't meant to do that.

Yeah true, I can see that, same goes with many things in life. Kinda like a "here is something you can try to figure out" lesson.

[nova bough]

but i wouldnt use AI to make a huge program. but also i dislike AI, lol. I'd rather just use an internet search.

[fierce bison]

i am letting it code throwaway scripts though, like if i need to do this one complicated thing one time, and i need to write a pythonscript for it that i'd throw away afterwards, i just have chatgpt write it.
Like this one time i had a bunch of data in a buffer in memory that i needed to know wht that data was, for debugging purposes. So i just had chatgpt write me a python script to reverse engineer the memory (it was a vertex buffer being sent to the GPU), and plot the vertices extracted from the unknown-formatted memory, to visulize the problematic mesh as a point cloud

[worthy ivy]

it's Godot - there is popFront and popBack(?) to take a variable from an array and pass it into a function - the implication seemed to be that the thing would no longer be in the array until it was put back
(unless I completely misunderstood? am only about 6 hours into learning Godot, so probably have just got something ass backwards!)

[gloomy forge]

I never really used AI because its costly, subscription services are meh.

[nova bough]

im not familar with Godot - but usually 'pop' in coding usually refers to a queue.

[gloomy forge]

I did however look at code others made and made notes in notepad, or looked into open source games and copy pasted it in NP++ and commented over them to understand the meaning of the code. Asking yourself "why is this the way it is" is what helps me.

[worthy ivy]

neither am I! 🙂

that's the issue

[nova bough]

lol

[gloomy forge]

like asking yourself "why is this there and what is the meaning of this".

[nova bough]

https://docs.godotengine.org/en/stable/classes/class_array.html#class-array-method-pop-front

based off the doc, yeah it does look like they're using arrays and have a function to make it work like a queue

[gloomy forge]

Linda like pico 8 and LUA. I need to look into picotron that shit looks incredible tbh.

[nova bough]

yeah google tells me Godot doesnt have a dedicated queue function. so you use arrays.

[shell osprey]

Hm, well Im not familiar enough with godot to know if there's a more specific reason, but the practise sounds sort of like a way to deal with asynchronous processing of entities such that a it can't accidentally have multiple copies of the process happening.

e.g. a player hits some boxes with a sword, that sword keeps moving and keeps triggering the collider for the boxes. But if you remove the boxes from a "can be hit box array" whilst processing them getting hit, then next frame you won't trigger them getting hit a second time. Then after you're done processing them getting hit, put them back in the array again

[worthy ivy]

popFront takes the top entry, popBack(i think?) takes from the bottom - but the example was of a player taking something out of the inventory (so I take an implication the variable is not "in" the inventory array whilst it's being equipped or weilded or given or whatever function is accessing the "inventory")

the Godot goblins in #gamedev-godot might know?

[gloomy forge]

I would assume they would.

[worthy ivy]

ah, this makes sense too - and Godot is designed primarily for games I suppose

[gloomy forge]

I can see why Thor is still so popular, its peak comfy to listen to him even when hes not on screen.

Not because of the voice, the vibe is fun.

[nova bough]

yeah. its FIFO (First in, first out) queue structure, and FILO (First In, Last Out) queue

[gloomy forge]

I can see why he only does stuff like editing easy .yaml config files or .ini or whatever. super easy to listen to without even looking

[nova bough]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queue_(abstract_data_type)

[shell osprey]

Im not sure in the example I gave though that it'd be the optimal way to handle that problem 😅

Resizing arrays is generally a drag on performance, when this problem could also be addressed by adding a flag to the boxes that indicates if they're busy or not and lets them be skipped over if they are

Then again microoptimisation is a waste of time if the perf hit is intangible

[nova bough]

so like, say i have a program to dynamically build some commands that have to go in a certain order - i put them in a queue so i dont have to iterate every time i add something to the stack.

then at the end of the program, it spits the queue out in FIFO manner (i dont think ive ever used in FILO.)

[opaque raven]

On the other hand

[shell osprey]

I swap teams every season

[gloomy forge]

Peak human condition, show me one person who hasn't done this consistently

[fluid dome]

I am back

Totally didn't just spend 50 minutes in code vein Character creator

[gloomy forge]

nice, making a character there is fun. I love the esthetics in code vein. Good blend between anime/weeb and that dark souls grim darkness.

reminds me of a manga called BLAME! too but only tangentially.

its a cult classic I'm sure someone woke up because blame mentioned

[terse pelican]

Haven't looked at Code Vein in ages

[shell osprey]

help I trained as an architect but they're making me draw manga...

[gloomy forge]

That already sounds like one of those japanese light novel titles.

[shell osprey]

come now, it's only twelve words long...

[wet storm]

"Welp, I fell in a hole as an architect and woke up a manga artist!"

Now it's an isekai

[terse pelican]

''Help, I'm stuck in this Isekai where I'm forced to make Manga, and I like it.''

[wicked schooner]

*Slaps manga cover
You could fit an entire synopsis in this

[opaque raven]

I'm slowly moving into "Dear player, pls don't touch this square or else the game will crash. Thank you for your cooperation"

[terse pelican]

Here's a question for you all related to the topic on Stream from a moment ago.

Is Anime and Cartoons the same, Yes/No and why or Why not?

[umbral gazelle]

i would say yes

its the same base concept of animated content

just different styles both still want to convey a story

[trim anvil]

same concept, different styles and origin nations (with all that entails)

I'd say all anime is cartoons and not all cartoons are anime

[umbral gazelle]

Cartoon is just a fancy english word for animation

[gilded tiger]

I think there's an expectation when you view an Anime vs a cartoon though

[trim anvil]

there are some very cartoon-esque anime

and some very anime-esque cartoons though

[gilded tiger]

True

[umbral gazelle]

The last airbender is a good example

[trim anvil]

yes

[umbral gazelle]

entirely western cartoon

very anime esk

[trim anvil]

Avatar The Last Airbender is a very anime-esque cartoon

Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt is a very cartoon-esque anime

[worthy ivy]

OG batman the animated series

worth a watch if you can find it anywhere

[gilded tiger]

Well that's straight up cartoon - not sure I'd class that as anime.... great watch though

[worthy ivy]

same artist as Aeon Flux IIRC?

[terse pelican]

oh man, Aeon Flux... I think I still have the DvD of the 'live action' movie

[gilded tiger]

Was it? I didn't know that

Loved Aeon Flux... used to catch it when coming back from the pub 😉

[worthy ivy]

it's heavily influence by eastern animation - the stylisation of the limbs but the masking thing with detailed backgrounds dilutes it a bit

[umbral gazelle]

Batman Ninja vs Yakuza league.

that is an interesting fusion

[worthy ivy]

pretty sure - one sec

Peter Chung!

Aeon Flux, The Animatrix, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1987), Phantom 2040, Batman Beyond
...
and rugrats

was Batman Beyond not the OG animated series

now Phantom 2040... that was a blast

wow, he did the transformers TV series and the Movie

[gilded tiger]

Nah, Batman Beyond was defo anime-esque

[worthy ivy]

that's what I was remembering

got a copy somewhere too

[gilded tiger]

Ah, ok... then totally agree

The OG intro still gives me goosebumps

...and I've never really understood why 😉

[worthy ivy]

late 80s early 90s was golden era kid's animation - the OG batman is gritty enough you can enjoy it as an adult, but not be traumatised as a kid - perfectly pitched

[gilded tiger]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrmUk2YUm14

[worthy ivy]

ren and stimpy the obvs exception

shit was nightmare fuel

[gilded tiger]

Another classic

[worthy ivy]

and they forgot the second episode in each pair was more "adult" and just played them both at 4pm after school

like the one where the whole episode is Ren melting all of Stimpy's favourite things in a giant vat of acid

[gilded tiger]

God, I can't remember the episode content

I really need to track down some archives of them and re-watch

[worthy ivy]

probably repressed it somewhere in your mindtank

I might have a load of them on VHS somewhere? need to dig out the old player

[gilded tiger]

Haha... I ditched my VHS player a long time ago... likely a few tapes in the loft still though

There was the entire series of STTNG there... used to love picking that up in the store

[worthy ivy]

I got a borrow of a screencap machine way back in the day and ripped a load of my VHS tapes to AVI

but they're only like 300 lines or something - I can see the squares!

so really need to go buy them on bluray

[gilded tiger]

LOL... I did the same for a couple of tapes and it was just shocking.... the memory has way more detail

[worthy ivy]

old school cathode ray smooths it out a bit too

hook up a VHS to a modern display and it's horrifying 🙂

is found!!!!
ohhh yeeeaaaa...

knew it was still somewhere

[gilded tiger]

Ohhhh.... yeah, I remember that now

[worthy ivy]

shit it's on youtube!?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL0-spytMis&list=PLLhOnau-tupRbKz7EBol1pTqieGwba2MO

spread the word goblins! spread the word

[gilded tiger]

Haha... I was just about to paste the same!

I'd forgotten it being so anime styled

[junior torrent]

$10 says someone is going to drama farm and make a "looking at Thor's java code" video. It'll be a whole series and will have some guy featured on it that doesn't use the same version.

CodingJesus makes me wish I could block people on YouTube.

Anyways, just sent in my first TTS. Lol

[umbral gazelle]

we shall eagerly await it in the queue :P

[junior torrent]

I attempted humor. Sometimes I think I'm funny maybe

[winged knoll]

You can

[winged knoll]

Damn didn’t know Thor code in Java, smh

[junior torrent]

...how????

[winged knoll]

You can unrecommend them

[junior torrent]

Isn't that what he's doing for Blockgame?

[junior torrent]

That's not blocking them but thank you

[winged knoll]

Wait did someone got banned

Mod, it’s friendly fire

[fierce bison]

Sorry no I just sent the wrong link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyVGWhfSa3k

[winged knoll]

Ah lol ok

[fierce bison]

so i deleted the message

anyway yeah i'm crashing out, these code reviews are hilarious

[winged knoll]

Tectone recently has been more unhinged, i wouldn’t recommend watching him

[fierce bison]

it's ok we just farm that

[junior torrent]

My favorite kind of stupid are when people claim Thor said he made Heartbound "unpirateable". Um, no. He didn't. He made it hard to pirate and accessible to people in other countries by lowering the price. Neither thing makes it theft free.

[wind hare]

Or you can watch something that parallels to this and isn't crap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQTZVnDE2Qw

[lapis tartan]

Agreed, I actually recommend finding smaller tubers who are more chill.

[jolly sky]

Just stick to Tested and Adam Savage

[winged knoll]

Tested-ticle

You fell for my ball trap

I end my turn

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/uJqhTz2lMf0

lmao testing goal

[swift gulch]

Rip, members-only

[winged knoll]

oh sorry didn't know

[fierce bison]

I didn't go too far with my vid, you guys, right?

was kind of a spur of the moment thing when I saw tectone's vid

[arctic jungle]

isnt there a rule about self promo, also it looks like a rage bait vid so im not wasting the time

[fallow fable]

I like your calm and civilized manner

[fierce bison]

thank you

[swift gulch]

Seems like it's more of a response to the ragebait

[arctic jungle]

You could be right lol

[gloomy pelican]

man, this guy is mad, but I'm just as mad as him, because not only did Thor said that it's not finished, the guy that crashed out and assumed that it was a boolean so an if statement is enough, then Tectone just trusts it and you can clearly tell that Tectone has no freaking idea what's it about and tried to cover his ass by saying something like he worked with Java ... this is hilarious :)))

[fierce bison]

exactly haha, tectone's just there providing enough reaction for it to fall under fair use

a.k.a nodding

[nova bough]

tectone's always been pretty.... unhinged. he loves drama

[lapis tartan]

So, clout surfing? Feeding the "fans" what they want to hear and never having your own opinion?

[earnest spire]

nah they just dont take it seriously

[nova bough]

his platform is like ... 80-90% drama, and like 10% gacha/games content

[lapis tartan]

I might have to catch another Tectone video and get more of a feel of him myself.

[nova bough]

i watched him stream some when i was super into genshin. dont watch him at all anymore

[jolly sky]

Oh, yea sorry not to take away from your creation but links to your creations (Youtube/Twitch/Art portfolios etc) need to go in the #advertising section

[gloomy pelican]

Tectone is mostly cool, but it's not hard to see that his videos are sometimes wrong

[jolly sky]

It's just the place to put things made by yourself so the other chats aren't flooded with people showing off their stuff

[gloomy pelican]

that's what drama farmers do man, they farm drama, with or without arguments

[worthy ivy]

yuuup

drama-llama drama farmers farming llama-drama like the llamas they are

[lapis flame]

did you catch that the rewrite to if (global.storyline_array[333]) means that for value 2 the code inside also gets executed, when it didnt with the switch?

[fierce bison]

didn't cover it in the video but yeah

[winged knoll]

Your voice sound nice mr Cheshire

[fierce bison]

at some point some stuff is so stupid you kind of have trouble putting it into words

[lapis flame]

yeah, i know that feeling

[fierce bison]

thanks man, lol

[mellow silo]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/720751611139457104/1385060879178924063/lerolero-4x.gif

What's going on chat???

[lapis flame]

i was screaming "No!" multiple times in the first of these "review" videos

[nova bough]

im at the 'i just dont care' part of it. any new drama will be the same.

unless thor just....stops telling people to be creative and supportive

[wind hare]

If you bother watch it, you are just giving them views and ad rev. just don't watch it

[mellow silo]

I never cared tbh, just looked like they were scraping an empty bin to me.

[lapis flame]

eh, i want to be fair and let them impress me with their video

[nova bough]

i cared a little, because like... i have experience and my brain likes logicing things

[lapis flame]

they just ... dont

[nova bough]

but now its like "???? "

[gloomy pelican]

yea, because it's also in the gml documentation "GameMaker will interpret a real number equal to or below 0.5 as a false value, and any real number greater than 0.5 as being true"... he just saw the above code and assumed it's a boolean for 333 ... LUL

[winged knoll]

Hello mr monki

[shell osprey]

equal to or below 0.5 as a false
is some crazy behaviour ngl

definitely not wise to mix types up in GML 😂

[lapis flame]

when everything is a number, you have one tool

[jolly sky]

It's like;

Someone painting a picture of a landscape

"Hey, what is this landscape? where's the sun!?"

"I haven't painted it yet"

"This painting is SHIT"

[fierce bison]

yeah, and he spreads that misinformation that Thor can't code to like 700k viewers, and then Tectone in turn to another 270k

[gloomy pelican]

the sad part is that the truth is just gonna be ignored because it's not popular

[nova bough]

and to all those people i'd like to say
"go make a game. if its so easy, go make one "

[swift gulch]

In addition to that, the true/false keywords weren't around back when the framework they're talking about was made

[fierce bison]

https://tenor.com/view/queer-dog-diva-divas-princess-gif-11091305521471277165

to that I would just say, share my video to combat the misinformation?

they're going to milk the drama like why wouldn't we

[wind hare]

You can't stop the misinformation, and if anything you are going to just cause a back and forth between the two of you if they are to respond. Good for you on getting the views but its not helping anyone

[nova bough]

they dont want to be convinced. they just wanna shit on him

[wind hare]

Because if you interact with the drama, it continues

[fierce bison]

it combats the misinformation, that's Thor's current stance on it at least, and I agree with him

there's many people on the sidelines that will just listen to the only voice in the room

[wind hare]

Thor can respond to it, and disprove anything he wants, others are just going to drive up numbers. You'll be doing the same thing they are, keeping it alive

[nova bough]

yeah its already been 'combatted' - you cant really engage after that point, because they don't care about the truth really

[fierce bison]

doesn't matter who reacts to it

[wind hare]

There are plenty of "The earth isn't flat" or "aliens didn't build the pyramids" videos but people stil believe it

[gloomy pelican]

the problem is that people are so fixated on hating on him that they are still convinced about the voice filter... I mean the proof is in Bao's video when they meet in real life and talk while mushroom hunting and I'm willing to bet that Thor was wearing a mic from Bao

[nova bough]

excuse me, i watched stargate sg-1. aliens definatly built the pyramids.

[lapis flame]

and those people deserve to be proven wrong every time they open their mouths

[fierce bison]

their side didn't just have one content creator promoting the misinformation, why would our side do that? it's disproportionate, makes no sense

[wind hare]

I mean human slvaes still built it. Praise Ra

[snow salmon]

But there are constants of True and False for the pseudo-boolean that is currently implemented and GM says to use them. Thats what a lot of people are trying to get hung up on. In the end, doesn't matter.

[nova bough]

humans and aliens. or rather alien larve in human slaves.

[fierce bison]

people learn through repetition, that's why you get served the same ad 10 times. Seeing information just once does not do much, you need to drill it into people's heads, that's just how memory works

[snow salmon]

Function over form is all that matters.

[nova bough]

and the ancients

so 2 different alien races built them

[wind hare]

Bullies, who these people are, do not learn. They are taking out their shitty life troubles on other people. The only way to beat them is to find soething else for them to try to beat down.

[fierce bison]

we're not talking about the bullies, but the hundreds of thousands of people on the sidelines who just consume this content

[wind hare]

Same people

[fierce bison]

not at all, what? xD

[wind hare]

Do you not understand the motivationn to watch someone try to destroy someone elses work on YouTube? They are watching it to make themselves feel better.

[lapis flame]

complaining about not using True/False is pure form over function

[nova bough]

0 is false, 1 is true. its just symantics, depending on languages

[fierce bison]

that is correct, and it is why they'll also watch the response videos to that content, in the end they get their drama content but also the truth alongside the drama, rather than just the drama + misinformation

[snow salmon]

I never did. The complainers are. Sure, it would have been more digestible, but I wasn't ever gonna recompile the game. Doesn't matter to me

[lapis flame]

thats stuff that doesnt really belong in a review, especially not one done on the outside of a particular codebase.

[jolly sky]

Did reddit tell you to say that

[lapis flame]

also, i wouldnt be surprised if a decompiler spits out 1 and 0 in place of True/False

[nova bough]

it...does. look up logic circuits.

[worthy ivy]

must have heard the rumour that if you say Blizzard three times in front a mirror.. wait that's not right...

[earnest spire]

dont interact

[lapis flame]

for GML i mean

[jolly sky]

https://tenor.com/view/jim-carrey-ace-ventura-take-care-slammed-the-door-bye-gif-8571412

[lapis flame]

i know thats the value of those constants

[nova bough]

this is just a programming thing. logic circuits/games are not specific to a language.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic_gate

[swift gulch]

GML doesn't actually have a boolean data type, it's just an int
The true/false keywords point to a 1/0 in the engine
And evaluating truth is just checking whether it's greater or less than 0.5

(Also those keywords didn't exist in the version Heartbound was originally made in)

[worthy ivy]

stolen this
not sorry

[rose echo]

Man, these trolls would be mad if they knew they could get paid for doing what they do, and they're out here spending their time and energy for nothing xD

[lapis flame]

i dont think gates are relevant to how GML games get decompiled.

[gloomy pelican]

we have a saying in our country, and it's from a well known novel called "Alexandru Lăpușneanu" where Alexandru is the name of a ruller in Moldavia. There was a scene where Alexandru said "Proști, dar mulți" meaning "Fools, but many" symbolizing that there is no way out if you are outnumbered.

[fierce bison]

that may be, but it's still good practice to use true/false rather than 1/0 simply to indicate intent and make the code more readable

[jolly sky]

It's a good one, I don't blame you

[swift gulch]

See my followup point

[nova bough]

they are relevent to every single program that uses logic - aka AND, OR, sometimes XOR

[fierce bison]

yeah, prosti gramada, lol, salutare

[worthy ivy]

isn't it all just logic gates ultimately?

[nova bough]

yes!

every single computer program boils down to logic gates.

[winged knoll]

@gloomy forge hello mr ice cream

[gloomy forge]

Heya!

[lapis flame]

no idea what your point is. The code you get out when decompiling GML either contains True/False or it contains the numeric representation of them (1/0). Thats what i was trying to get at. That gates work on boolean logic is not news to me.

[nova bough]

"every single computer program boils down to logic gates."

aka boolean values. thats my point,

[lapis flame]

which is fine, but completely unrelated to decompiling GML

[nova bough]

it is relevent for 1/0 vs true/false

[lapis flame]

no, its not

True/False are symbolic representations of the underlying values

[nova bough]

its the same in the end

[swift gulch]

Yeah, that's the other point to make
What CJ was reviewing wasn't completed source code, it was a decompilation of the game and snippets screenshotted from stream
Everything about those videos was just nonsense

[lapis flame]

and what you get out depends on how GML is compiled and whether use of True/False can be accurately reconstructed from the binary.

the point is that if you decompile GML you might not ever see True or False being used anywhere

because the compiler converts those to their numeric constants

[nova bough]

yeah. and my point is, in the end it doesnt ultimately matter.

[winged knoll]

Are you coding / making game @gloomy forge

[gloomy forge]

Yeah I am.

[winged knoll]

do you mind show me what you are doing

[muted robin]

i didn't know there was a difference between a config file and coding but it's funny to me since apparently the people who are coming in to dunk on thor's code don't know that either

[toxic rampart]

NOPE

[gloomy forge]

Uh right now, no. I was setting up mic and all.

[lapis flame]

parrots, the lot of them

[nova bough]

i wonder how much coding experience these people have... and the percentage of people that the coding experience is 0 or near 0

[wind hare]

The point is that they have someone to dunk on, they don't care about facts

[fierce bison]

i mean i wouldn't blame the people that dont know coding, it's easy to manipulate people that don't have pre-existing knowedge about a subject

[winged knoll]

oki oki

[wind hare]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-beast/202403/the-social-media-mob

[nova bough]

yeah. i hate what social media has done. its too easy to hit an echo chamber

[toxic rampart]

Most if they think coding is configs.
Technically, I'd argue they are related as both are giving arguments an what not but also...
I'm a dingus that has mostly only done server side and modding stuff.
Not strictly coding.

I can mess with the thing, not make the thing.

[gloomy forge]

I don't wanna talk because people are having conversations if you wanna talk we can but another hangout.

you can just pick whatever hangout you like and I follow.

[fierce bison]

i think you need to fight fire with fire, otherwise you're just bringing a knife to a gun fight

[winged knoll]

come come

[nova bough]

and most of my scripts are just sorting massive amounts of data and pulling out relevent stuff.

[wind hare]

Nope, you just want views lol

[toxic rampart]

But even that little bit of experience for fun and sometimes work tells me This is configuration and that's not coding lol

[fierce bison]

ofc i want views, lol, that's tangential

farm them

[swift gulch]

Nothing wrong with doing something for views if you're actually doing something good

[wind hare]

The people who could have helped stop this were the people who are making the views in the first place. If they said, "We support the movement but don't attack Mr Softhair, then we would be in a different world

[swift gulch]

Ross did, and the hate brigade didn't even slow

[lapis flame]

i have quite a few misgivings about Ross' behavior

[swift gulch]

Same
I don't think him appending his stuff with "But leave Thor alone" absolves him

[toxic rampart]

Breifly.
In the middle of a video.
After the video that went on a 40 minute quest while saying "I don't wanna start something".

[swift gulch]

Yeah

[muted robin]

didn't ross do a little freudian slip about it saying "now that we have our signatures, leave thor alone" though

[jolly sky]

Yea it's like the difference between, The Code in Game maker, and just editing a .ini file

They're worlds apart

[fierce bison]

they used the hate mob to invalidate Thor's points, i have proof, here's screenshot of one of their mods in their discord, what they said. Now that it's served the purpose, they are conveniently detaching themselves from the hate mob

[wind hare]

Its not just him, its all the popular streamers who said something, Jack could have said it, any of them could. But they didn't

[swift gulch]

Agreed

[muted robin]

same, i feel like people going "but he said not to harass thor" really don't understand the difference between CYA type disclaimers and whether the rhetoric and form of the entire content

[nova bough]

i was neutral about Ross until he put out that vid that was explicitly to stir the drama pot to get people to sign. i dislike him now.

[lapis tartan]

I don't dislike Ross, but I dislike this Drama Slop is trending.

[rose echo]

Indeed

[worthy ivy]

ngl I have stolen some cursed Thor faces from drama video thumbnails

these will ultimately be assimilated into #thorchan and neutralised

[muted robin]

it bothers me that instead of doing an actual critical audit of SKG's social media campaign/promotion and critiquing actual elements like "why is a US citizen who doesn't have any legal experience trying to push an EU petition" are just completely ignored in favor of "pirate man bad"

[swift gulch]

Like, all throughout the few weeks after Thor put out the two SKG videos, I had people telling me "Well he should be responsible with his platform and consider what it would do to the movement!"
Which like, he did
He didn't want the movement to succeed as it was, and said so
But suddenly no one else on the other side needs any kind of consideration like that at all, and can stir up an internet-wide mob against one guy with zero consequences

[muted robin]

it reeks of victim mentality honestly and it's telling that the petition didn't get enough signatures until videos making pirate the scapegoat came out

[nova bough]

every opinion against SKG is "misinformation"

[lapis flame]

Ross isnt involved in the ECI, hes a cheerleader for it.

[gloomy pelican]

if you disect that 1h video from Ross with what Thor said, you can tell that something is off on his logic, and when you look at context of why Thor said what he said, ultimately he was right in most cases and we debunked this in the skgthunderdome a while back

[muted robin]

why does he need to consider the movement though? it's not his movement. he doesn't have a moral obligation to support it. contrary to popular belief just bc something is well intentioned doesn't mean that you have to support it

[umbral gazelle]

"No you just read it wrong" is the favorite arguement ANYWAY enough SKG talk it always turns bad also mods dont like us when we do it

[toxic rampart]

https://tenor.com/view/street-fighter-sf3-street-fighter-3-q-tweaking-gif-11230052314979620544

[muted robin]

like. honestly i'm so effing for real. why is it thor's responsibility to be nice and promote them? that's their f-ing job

[winged knoll]

#vtubing message @gloomy forge

[swift gulch]

Yeah, my thoughts exactly
That's just what everyone was throwing back at me when I said what Thor said was fine

[muted robin]

really supports my theory (basiclaly fact) that it's not about thor actually being a bad person it's jsut about the fact that people wanted his celebrity support and when he wouldn't give it they turned on him for not being a servant to them

[worthy ivy]

I stole this AI generated (I think?) Thor face from a drama video and made it into nightmare fuel of the highest order

[muted robin]

like it's just so entitled. whenever you try to do petitions and government actions your job is to petition and campaign and market and spread awareness. if people don't know or don't support you you don't blame other people for your lack of success, you go "what AM i in control with and how can i convey my message more effectively"

[lapis flame]

the answer was "i need to stir the pot more"

[muted robin]

"but someone popular disagreed with me and now my movement is ruined :''''''''''''''''( " big effin WHOOP i do not care, that's what happens when you get into politics, people disagree with you

[nova bough]

10 months of sleeping, "it's Thor's fault this is failing" ....instead of putting out more content supporting it.

[gilded tiger]

Bah... managed to get myself autobanned for using the word 'fraud' in response to Thor talking about chargebacks on Steam

[swift gulch]

Yeah, that was a point I made as well
Thor made two videos ten months ago, and only now is it suddenly a problem?

[nova bough]

yup, its crazy

[muted robin]

in the history of petitions and legislative movements ppl have literally overcome being murdered at protests to successfully push their law proposals but apparently a random youtube channel making two videos was enough to defeat this one

pirate man bad :'''''''''''''''( pirate man destroy my movement :'''''''''''''''(

[wind hare]

Its not, they are just using him to get a platform and it worked.

[nova bough]

im waiting for the EU to just go "????" and "WTF is this shit" but in lawyer speak.

[fierce bison]

i am certain that's what will happen

[muted robin]

they're gonna blame thor for that too 🤣 they're gonna say that every EU politician against the movement is secretly a piratesoftware viewer

[lapis tartan]

I still don't see how it was all on Thor... Even Ross admits he didn't over push it. He didn't want to pester bigger youtubers over it. Even then he had LOTs of promotion going on, while Thor only did 2 videos.

[worthy ivy]

friendly-fire! friendly-fire!

mods'll fix that if you ticket am sure

[nova bough]

it will definately up the "Thor is a corporate plant" theory

[muted robin]

he didn't want to pester bigger youtubers over it? bro how tf else was he supposed to get eyes on his stuff it's called marketing

[wind hare]

Because they needed someone to sacrifice to the social media gods and he put out the video. This is why you don'

[fierce bison]

if you look up what it took for the only two other eu initiatives ever to actually cause law changes, you'll see how much info they needed to provide. Definitely not the 4-5 paragraphs of nonsense SKG provided. The whole EU parliament will laugh their a**es off

[wind hare]

don't talk about politics unless you want to really get into it

in the end this whole thing is a political movement

[jolly sky]

I have made the joke that Thor has a Big Red Phone on his desk where he has a direct hotline to them lmao

[earnest spire]

sounds like he didnt thought it out

[gilded tiger]

Oh absolutely - those boys and girls are busy enough with the real attacks - I can wait it out

[jolly sky]

Anyway lets uh, try to move on shall we?

[worthy ivy]

there's a #thorchan meme in there somewhere where he's a triffid wearing a blizzard namebadge - "corporate plant"! lmao

[umbral gazelle]

https://tenor.com/view/wizard-battle-magician-nice-argument-fireball-punkeydoodles8-gif-16383972292825395645

remember argue like me

fireball everyone

[muted robin]

he has a Big Blue Phone on his desk to call blizzard

[nova bough]

"I didnt ask how big the room is, I CAST FIREBALL"

[lapis tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/dragonheart-draco-bowen-friends-friendship-gif-10142003497021007050

Dragon Heart was a great movie.

[wind hare]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/gtNGgSLcX48

[terse pelican]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2429050/Fretless__The_Wrath_of_Riffson/

Steam

Fretless - The Wrath of Riffson

Play as Rob, a friendly musician trying to restore harmony in an off-tuned world where wacky villains are corrupting music.

Rick Riffson, boss of the evil Super Metal Records company, is using the Battle of the Bands contest to extend his hold on every last note, chord, and song by trapping the best musicians with deceptive soul-binding cont…

Price

$13.49

Recommendations

116

▶ Play video

https://tenor.com/view/shut-up-and-take-my-money-gif-13250127

[muted robin]

some people: "we said not to harass thor"
also some people:

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-anakin-skywalker-if-youre-not-with-me-then-youre-my-enemy-hayden-christensen-gif-18489728

[terse pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/enemyofmyenemy-dwightenemy-gif-21748639

[earnest spire]

too personal some of these people

[fierce bison]

wait someone commented on my video:

these people are delusional

[muted robin]

that person who compared thor's situation to dream's was accurate tho, it truly is a socially acceptable dogpile where the depth of depravity is okay bc it's him

[jolly sky]

Utterly brain broken

[muted robin]

hopefully thor will also get vindication eventually

[jolly sky]

They need to be studied in a lab

[muted robin]

i should make a video too, i have long brown hair and glasses like thor's so maybe they'll accuse me of being Thor AI-edited to be female

[fierce bison]

omg do it

[outer cobalt]

I mean in all seriousness folks just want an interaction

Touch grass

[muted robin]

unironically i would but i also like not being doxxed so i'm not sure :( weighing my odds

[opaque raven]

What's the deal with figtree?

[gloomy pelican]

you can do it as a social experiment to see if this is probably the cause that people hate others :))

[fierce bison]

some dumb irrelevant stuff, he means to say I'm thor sockpuppet account

[terse pelican]

Part of his Second Life name.

[swift gulch]

I'm another dude with long hair and glasses, I can relate 😛

[terse pelican]

Just Drama bait

[opaque raven]

....I'm taking notes
What's sockpuppet?📝

[swift gulch]

Sockpuppets are secondary accounts made by people, usually for trolling or promoting their own stuff

[opaque raven]

Idk if I'm too old or too young to not know those things....

[swift gulch]

Hence, it's them sticking a sock puppet on their hand and then talking through it

[nova bough]

as a woman with short hair, glasses, and gets misgendered as a man, i can weirdly also relate.

[brittle brook]

I just take an easier stance IMO with YT, if I see some clowns video with a troll-pic of Thor in the thumbnail, I just tell YT "never recommend this channel to me" and move on.

[terse pelican]

Kermit is a sockpuppet.

[lapis tartan]

The process is old, but each generation seems to name it something else.

[winged knoll]

https://x.com/thomasbrushdev/status/1945943667979473272

Thomas Brush (@thomasbrushdev)

The dog piling on @PirateSoftware is getting old and grifty. I don’t care what someone’s done, at some point it’s just old.

X · Jul 17, 2025, 8:28 PM

[swift gulch]

Hey, I get misgendered as a woman until I open my mouth, I know the feeling

https://tenor.com/view/bromance-sig-curtis-alex-louis-armstrong-fullmetal-fma-gif-18194534

[winged knoll]

i will misgender you as a cat

[nova bough]

https://tenor.com/view/bros-the-office-love-fist-bump-gif-13830753

[swift gulch]

It's like
Long hair, mildly long nails, average build
And then very solidly baritone voice

[opaque raven]

I know figtree as "burner" for example

[winged knoll]

Another kobo propaganda?

[opaque raven]

What a life must it be
I bet puppets don't even pay taxes or rent

[nova bough]

i look like a dude. short hair. flat chest, usually in cargo pants/shorts and a hat.

and then i speak and its feminine. the double takes that sometimes happen are hilarious

[muted robin]

if there's one way i hope thor influences the world it's to get more men to grow their hair long

[outer cobalt]

Thor sounds exactly like what i expect him to be lol

[muted robin]

please please please please please please please

[winged knoll]

why

[outer cobalt]

People need to touch grass

[muted robin]

bc men with long hair are great

[dusky grove]

I'm trying, okay. But god damn does it take a while

[earnest cove]

Are people still being weird in the youtube twitch chats?

[muted robin]

i've felt this way my whole life but the prevailing sentiment is still unfortunately a lot of homophobic/sexist nonsense towards men with long hair :( or just claiming it's always unkempt/dirty/unprofessional/etc

[nova bough]

yeah. its less weird than a few days ago tho

[dusky grove]

This has been going for like 2 years now and its still only at my shoulders just barely

[swift gulch]

Every time I see people link the "This is what he actually sounds like" videos, I'm just like
Yeah, that's within a normal range for a single person
People talk at different pitches depending on context
Your voice is going to be higher when excitedly giving a speech for an award you just won vs calmly explaining something to a chat dono

[opaque raven]

Did you say...Kobold???
Time to transform!
🔥 Kobold HENSHIN 🔥

[swift gulch]

Based

[earnest spire]

thor has a big voice range

[nova bough]

i feel you. it sucks

[worthy ivy]

yarp - it worked out okay in the end
#thorchan message

[muted robin]

if it helps i started growing my hair out from a pixie cut at the start of 2018 and i only got to mid-back length this year

[winged knoll]

i think Samuel L Jackson look better bald

we should have more bald man

[dusky grove]

Why does it take so long after it reaches the shoulder

[earnest cove]

Man those who keep being a whiny baby about something not finished probably never created anything long term in their life

[jolly sky]

They would be shocked by Voice Actors

[muted robin]

also i bet they never cite videos from other channels that use their own mics or where thor is just a cameo lol, unless they think everyone else is also conspiring to hide thor's real voice

[brittle brook]

as a guy with medium-long hair, there is one danger to a stronger prevalence of men having longer hair.... it could lead to another resurgence of "the man bun" hair tieing.

[warm trench]

7 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhd8bcl7cdo

[split tulip]

or ask any singer what their range used to be

[nova bough]

one thing i hate about short hair, with long hair i only needed a haircut like once every year or two years.

short hair i need a haircut like 2-3 times a year.

[earnest cove]

Yeah they'd lose their minds

[toxic rampart]

Anyone that thinks it's dirty or whatever to have long hair have never had long hair.
That shit sometimes takes so much work lmfao.

As a previously long hair myself, I gave up because of the work and salute mfers that keep it up.
And am heckin jelly of those that don't even have to try lol

[nova bough]

but also, i use clippers with attachments. ive gotten ok at cutting my own hair.

[mellow silo]

I need to get my hair cut, shit takes like 20m in the shower 😭

[dusky grove]

Thor uses head n shoulders 2 in 1 and has his hair. I'm like... HOWWWW

[swift gulch]

I stopped getting my hair cut when I got out of the military
Grew it for like four years until I got annoyed at it one day
Cut it short again
Then went "...Nah"
And haven't cut it again in the four years since then

[earnest cove]

I started to keep long hair after trying to get an appointment to cut my hair was a constant battle for slots. Too tired to bother

[swift gulch]

The past few months it's also been growing longer than the spot it usually stops
These days it's like an inch or two from my tailbone

[nova bough]

i cut my hair when it grows too far down and touches the back of my neck

also trim around my ears

[brittle brook]

I still remember when I used to try and grow my beard out more while also having long hair.... kept waking up with "Velcro face" where I'd have to unfasten it from the beard every morning

[swift gulch]

I need to buy a hairband, honestly

[jolly sky]

Prime example. I have a pretty low voice anyway, but I was putting on one even lower to get close to the "Testament of the Doomslayer" voice

[opaque raven]

I have a confession to make
||it's so nice to see people who joined this month already interacting and having a good time! Regardless of their first weird comments about the drama, they eventually stayed||

[swift gulch]

[earnest cove]

Oh.... The meme man behind the foot lettuce passed away

[jolly sky]

https://youtu.be/T5UF6ashzkw (this was the inspiration for my attempt)

[winged knoll]

Joke on you i'm not going to click on obvious kobo propaganda

[wind hare]

Wasn't positivity banned?

[exotic forge]

Concern trolling

[mellow silo]

https://tenor.com/view/theoreocat-bread-carbs-cat-hungry-gif-23338568

[winged knoll]

Unless you click on here first

[swift gulch]

Honestly, I joined because of the drama
I'd seen Thor's shorts around, agreed with most of his takes on SKG, and then all of this started up over the past month
And I just went "...Wait what the hell?" and actually joined in on a few streams
Then came over here a bit after

[exotic forge]

Thanks for actually giving Thor a chance to defend himself

[swift gulch]

It basically just gave me a moment of "We're talking about the same person, right?"

[opaque raven]

Jokes on you
I'm using ATTC
I can't click on anything

[toxic rampart]

Or forbid they found out about the vocal gymnastics of most hardcore and modern metal vocalists lol.

[winged knoll]

[toxic rampart]

But that's not a direct comparison.
Still.

My voice today from ten years ago is different.

[ivory schooner]

Sorry if this feels antagonistic but I’m seeing stuff in chat about Fridge Bound not being legit, they’re saying it was streamed to the fridge but was still running on the computer in the backpack, do we know who took that quest to get the challenge coin?

[swift gulch]

Steets

[wind hare]

Does it matter?

[swift gulch]

As for whether it was legit or not, I'll wait for an explanation from the man himself

[toxic rampart]

Oh we're up to a PC in the backpack now. Nice.

[swift gulch]

Because so far the "evidence" is "Some stuff flew across the screen while it was starting up that might suggest it but we still can't confirm that"

[toxic rampart]

Yeah we've pinged and asked streets as he put it together.

[shell osprey]

Well it is interesting from a technical standpoint even if it's ultimately irrelevant

[toxic rampart]

I just wanna know how because it's neat lol

Also hoping to bumble my way through an onionos port as a learning exercise.

[shell osprey]

it's all in the layers

[ivory schooner]

I mean, I thought it was neat when I saw the video but if it was a lie, I’d be kinda bummed out, so I wanna know more about it

[worthy ivy]

I don't see why you couldn't run something like heartbound on a fridge?

OG Doom runs on everything, why should Doom have all the fun?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcR8A1-uk7k

[shrewd onyx]

bruh

[fierce bison]

you'd have to ask the creaetor of that video, thor did not dig into it to confirm how real it was

[worthy ivy]

I wanna know if the fridge can run Crysis

[wind hare]

Well good luck, I don't know who knows the identity of the person or if they will share it with you. I don't think doxing the person is going to accomplish much.

[warm trench]

Congratulations, you are doom guy'd. (the pregnancy test...)

[swift gulch]

I don't think it's doxxing to give the name on the YouTube channel 😛

Especially when they're a community member in this server

[wind hare]

I thought it was a video just sent to Thor.

[swift gulch]

I don't think so

Either way, the guy who did it is Steets
He was tagged a bit ago during an earlier discussion about this, but I don't think he's responded

[warm trench]

He doesn't owe an explanation or proof.

[wind hare]

I bet he got flooded with messages

[swift gulch]

He doesn't, no
I'd just be interested in it if he's willing

[warm trench]

We would see stuff plastered 10x over if he was willing. I would take it as - no reason wade into lava. Nothing to prove.

[swift gulch]

Ye

[nova bough]

if i was steets i wouldnt respond.

[warm trench]

I wish Pizza Ranch (I like to call it chicken ranch) had a better hot sauce selection. I opened the red pepper shaker and applied liberal amounts of flakes and the drenched the slice of pizza with Tabasco sauce. Mildly warm. Ooofta.

[ivory schooner]

I agree, personally I do feel like learning more is always a good thing, tho I suppose at the end of the day that’s up to streets themself and trying to pry for those answers from someone who’s not really involved with anything because “people said you faked it” isn’t a good reason

[warm trench]

The fridge not a fridge is a sea lioning exersize anyway.

[swift gulch]

Yeah, like I said the other day
At this point it's drilling down to the point of nonsense
We're getting to nitpicking over a throwaway piece of evidence used to back up a point in respond to demands spurred on by a criticism that was only half correct in the first place and wouldn't have been made at all if it wasn't being used for drama farming

[winged knoll]

The fridge is a sea lion confirmed

[ivory schooner]

I don’t think a sealion would enjoy being stuffed into a fridge… wait what do you mean that’s not what you said?

[winged knoll]

yes

[warm trench]

Sealions all the way down.

(the Turtle adage)

[nova bough]

[winged knoll]

[nova bough]

discord trolled me

[hazy storm]

Discord trolls us all

'Tis the natural state of things

[ivory schooner]

I’ve never seen an emote embed failure before

[warm trench]

If sea lioning is a thing, how is baby seal clubbing not a thing?

[hazy storm]

It is in Canada

Google it

[ivory schooner]

I thought it was… which is why it’s banned

[warm trench]

Dave, I'm afraid. I'm afraid.

I heard M$ wants to change the blue screen to a black screen. I want the computer to sing the Daisy Bell song at failure.

[opaque raven]

What the frick is sea lioning???

[split tulip]

[winged knoll]

[opaque raven]

I'm too young/old for this

[swift gulch]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning

[warm trench]

From Wikipedia - Sealioning (also sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with relentless requests for evidence.

[swift gulch]

It's the internet's favorite way of trolling without looking like you're trolling

[winged knoll]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning

[swift gulch]

And works even better when it's done by hundreds of people at once

[opaque raven]

Sounds boring

[swift gulch]

It's very tiring to deal with

[opaque raven]

I mean, on both sides it sounds boring

[split tulip]

"the most apt description of Twitter you'll ever see"

[worthy ivy]

"I am trying to eat breakfast" is a nice copypasta response to troll attempts - am stealing this

[hazy storm]

And annoying

[golden latch]

Why?

[muted robin]

!fridge

[dapper raven]

The Legends were true! https://youtu.be/ZhRkxUDadUA

[wet storm]

https://tenor.com/view/get-rotated-get-rotated-idiot-rotate-rotation-shark-gif-24511062

Me to my phone when I want to watch a video in portrait mode

[wind hare]

I don't know but it looks like its running on the fridge. Kinda crazy this even matters to people. It's using the speaker, and touch screen.

also it looks that that video is private? Or just not public because its not showing on steets channel section

[wicked schooner]

This and twitter outsourcing their critical thinking to grok

[umbral gazelle]

He probably unlisted due to isnane people wanting to gotcha at any cost

[ivory schooner]

Yea it’s link only

[lyric venture]

Loads just fine for me. Also, are we still on the fridge thing?

[gentle mortar]

was unlisted a while ago I believe

[wicked schooner]

I thought steets already unlisted the video way before the drama happened

[gentle mortar]

check vids description

[lyric venture]

But yeah the video itself is unlisted

[wind hare]

not really, someone wanted proof or something.

[umbral gazelle]

ppffff

[ivory schooner]

Curse you Lowe’s

[muted robin]

yeah unfortunately his comments are full of spammers either accusing him of being fake or going "bro you could expose him bro bro bro come on join the hate train bro expose him"

[umbral gazelle]

hope he gets away (i am in no way condoning the hacking of private hardware) even if its fun

[wind hare]

Well hopefully he can ignore whatever they throw at them. That sucks

[lyric venture]

Yeah but all those comments are in the very recent past, which is pretty clear that its not like this was in question before the recent drama.

[hoary pawn]

I think after a while, people are just gonna start saying that Thor hires someone else to code all his games or some shit

[earnest cove]

oh btw @hazy storm friend now have plans to do game dev things in roblox. well, that's better than letting the skills rust so I'm ok with that

[worthy ivy]

"Th0R haS A sWeaTShoP bAsEMenT whERe hE MakES tHe FeRrETs c0De HiS gAMeS oN lItTle TiNY fErrET KeYBoARds I'Ve dONe No reSEaRCh BuT SoMeONe oN tHe inTErNeT ToLD mE sO iT MuST bE tRUe!!!!"

hope that hurts as much to read as it did to type 😆

[shrewd onyx]

Fish

[shrewd onyx]

Nah pretty simple to read but good try

[shrewd onyx]

That’s crazy