streamchat

[blissful imp]

https://tenor.com/view/southpark-kyle-im-back-gif-10628494

[golden latch]

Cute cat posting time

[trim crater]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1012076348409397330/1141463992179638353/mitosis.gif

[kindred sedge]

my take on "the drama"
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1314561926319312977/1394254490617643028/v12044gd0000d1ptlvvog65inbm11uqg.mov?ex=6876242e&is=6874d2ae&hm=14ee095426696f205271a9628760571a2a3bbacd109f879c2b3421b31a443c53&

[kindred sedge]

cat spiders would be absolute menace's to ecosystems

I mean, domesticated cats already taking out bird populations, then you add spider?!

[wispy plover]

No, not even cats will make me like spiders.

[kindred sedge]

apex predator, total S tier, would keep as a pet

[golden latch]

The humble hawk would be fine dining

[kindred sedge]

Swoop right into the web!

[golden latch]

Okay fine the humble fire bird 🐦‍🔥

[indigo wadi]

Man, what a stream

[kindred sedge]

Man I have spent the last 6 minutes looking for a gif of Phenox using her ult in Marvel Rivals to respond to this with, but cant find the gif so uh

[indigo wadi]

Now to go and watch khronos' vod

[kindred sedge]

Isnt he gonna be doing unban bingo at some point this week?

[indigo wadi]

He did today and will tomortow

[kindred sedge]

OOp

[lyric venture]

Yeah he ran through like 600 bans earlier today

[kindred sedge]

Whelp here is to hoping I catch him live

[jolly sky]

Good lord

[wicked schooner]

Mods deserve more bread today

[kindred sedge]

they def do

[indigo wadi]

Over 600 unban requests today

[lyric venture]

He left the queue at 250 but its up to like 500 when he checked it a little earlier.

I think Khronos just logged off a few minutes ago

[indigo wadi]

Ya

[kindred sedge]

and im betting another 2k have filled up the requests too just from today

[tribal canyon]

100%'d the bingo

[jolly sky]

Pressing F5 must be his worst nightmare

[indigo wadi]

Lol

[kindred sedge]

How many request before he got bingo?

[indigo wadi]

I think he feeds off it

[wicked schooner]

Holy....

[kindred sedge]

my guess was the first 5

[lyric venture]

Hes turning it into content so at least something comes out of it ;p

Its just insane how unoriginal all the people who get banned are.

[tribal canyon]

think about 500?

[flint sinew]

https://tenor.com/view/fetter-yoshi-yoshi-fetti-gif-24291890

YOSHI DISTRACTION

[kindred sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/beagle-the-dog-2000's-advertisement-vine-boom-what-gif-1056150611751834415

[jolly sky]

Starr

[tribal canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/yoshi-mario-yoshis-island-super-smash-brother-super-smash-brother-n64-gif-21681448

[jolly sky]

Y'all can distract better than that

Like this

[wispy plover]

Thanks, I hate it

[flint sinew]

[gloomy forge]

Dunno why but that made me wanna play pizza tower

[flint sinew]

how i look yawning this morning

[gloomy forge]

gigapog

[tribal canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/gumbus-gubus-gumbusandgracie-yawning-cat-gif-14168074115097722602

[flint sinew]

if this is a twitch emote imma lose it lmao

[gloomy forge]

There is no pog peppino like that, would've been awesome its a good reaction image.

[opaque raven]

I wanna trade this rare Notorious B.E.E.G.Yoshi card for something cool
What you all have to offer?

[gloomy forge]

Nothing but a bunch of comfy vibes

[glossy cedar]

Sorry if this is the wrong place for this kind of discussion, lead me to the right place if it isn't
(maybe the gen programming chat?)

A lot of the issues that he's addressed have been data structure issues, which is a very generic thing, and can be applied to a lot of things, if you have experience in coding at all I don't see how you wouldn't see what I mean. My first intuition if I were to make a game is to use something similar to a DAG (assuming time is linear) to represent the narrative (or multiple graphs if needed, say if the player has freedom of choice). Basically just a tree, but the branches can join. Like that isn't specific to any area of programming, that's just general CS.

I've RE save files and pretty much the first thing I would expect would be a tree structure of some kind. I don't see how making an unusual choice relative to standard game practice would make RE easier, but I would have to read up on the ARG a bit more so I could specifically know what it's about.

I'm actually kind of interested how PS have structured their code, I'm assuming all of it is not public so we can't know; I can't actually interpret the "giant array thing" (like it literally means nothing to me, is it just global flags?)

I'm not going to say anything about anything else though. Like dogging on the lighting thing, because I've written GLSL shaders and I will definitely take the lazy route if there's enough hardware performance. As long as it's just pixel art it shouldn't be an issue. I come from the world of JavaScript where doing the simplest things requires megabytes of code lol

Again, sorry if this is the completely wrong place (and for the wall!)

[opaque raven]

Oooohhh that's cool, reminds me of Najka from Dark Souls 2

[gloomy forge]

its literally scorpion whose subzero in this case? just an ice cube?

wait hold up.

[golden latch]

Frozon from the incredibles

[jolly sky]

Maybe if the guy went in with even an attempt to understand why things were done in the way they were instead of just shitting on it to gather views from the drama slop being peddled, and to bring more people to his $350 Resume review, and didn't literally call Thor a fraud in the first videos thumbnail, then maybe we could take anything he has said with any amount of generosity.

[gloomy forge]

https://tenor.com/view/what-icecube-seriously-gif-5026775

there you go, heres an ice cube.

[calm ember]

Disagreements happen sometimes. You don't always have to win.

[gloomy forge]

guy made banger hip hop back in the early 90s

[opaque raven]

Cool, you can have Notorious BEEG Yoshi and I will even add this sticker just for you

[kindred sedge]

make it a temp tattoo

[golden latch]

!pobox Send that here

[dapper raven]

Send me stuff! The weirder the better! yarrHeart 15613 Olson Drive NW #65, Vaughn, WA 98394

[opaque raven]

Not impossible

[golden latch]

They would appreciate the gift

[mellow oracle]

anyone by chance hear the answer for TTS? Was on a conference call for work and missed the answer (and the link isnt working......i think i know why it isnt working)

#answered-tts message

[earnest cove]

oh, there's no vod...

vod got taken down

[mellow oracle]

yea, thats what i figured

[brazen drift]

i think i remember this and he said ther was no plans to do it in the close future at least

[opaque raven]

Oh, I remember this question
Iirc he said maybe expedition 33

[brazen drift]

cuz he wanted to vibe for his birthday

[opaque raven]

But....idk

[brazen drift]

but obviously the future isnt set in stone so there could always be another one, at least After summers done and all the kiddies go back to school

[glossy cedar]

why things were done in the way they were
Where is this information
What I've heard is that it is to make the ARG easier for the people who are in to that, but I don't see how doing something out of the ordinary would make it easer. Even if it is conceptually simpler, doing something unexpected means it's not going to be the first thing people are going to think of.
Example, if someone is serializing data I'd expect JSON, protobuf, XML or YAML, if you're going to do anything else, it means spending extra time on finding out how and what was used

Not going to comment on the latter as I am purely interested in the code itself lol

[jolly sky]

IIRC the answer was "Maybe, I don't know we'll have to see how things go" (Paraphrased)

[earnest cove]

Ugh is this way chat became so insane towards the end of the stream?

[jolly sky]

That and another streamer playing Heartbound on their stream, and chat hopping twats causing problems

[lyric venture]

That and some other streamer guy who has been farming content

So its just shitty people being shitty.

Unfortunately 😦

[brazen drift]

wheres that

[earnest cove]

my screenshot was from youtube

[earnest cove]

they really lost the plot

[jolly sky]

Look honestly? I'm done asking why people should be caring about why a Solo Dev has come under fire for code that no one else works on.

Does the game run 100%? Yes.
Does it perform well? Yes.

Anything else is pointless

[brazen drift]

Drama farmers on youtube be like

[earnest cove]

They forgot Undertale and Fear and Hunger exists

[jolly sky]

It's like the Youtubers that "Fix other peopls art" unprompted

Absolute mega ultra cringe behaviour

[lyric venture]

Yeah its real weird for people to be commenting on code when so far as I know there is no current issue with the game that has issues with it running (and considering it runs on a fridge computer which probably has no power..)

Yeah, "I dont like this painting someone did so heres why it should be this way". Those people have lost the plot.

[earnest cove]

Funger has actual features that don't work and i don't see people picking apart trashing the game maliciously because they don't get clout for doing so.

[glossy cedar]

Those two things are absolutely true, but I'm also curious as to why PS is "avoiding to work on the game" (let's just put it in quotes just in case)
What I mean is that there hasn't been nearly as much progress these last years compared to the first ones. Is there an explanation for this?

[jolly sky]

....he isn't avoiding it

[twilit crystal]

Yeah, it's worse than that. It's not even that they don't like the painting, it's that they don't like the way he used upstrokes instead of downstrokes.

[jolly sky]

He's doing writing (the story) for the game off stream

[earnest cove]

It's off stream so he has the quietness to focus

[glossy cedar]

I see

That doesn't explain the slow down though

[earnest cove]

dialogue writing, character acting, not really a thing to do on stream

[earnest cove]

Imagine writing a new dialogue for every action, and every one of those action carry on into the future.

[lyric venture]

He did explain that. The community exploded. He had to create a business and all the stuff behind that.

[earnest cove]

Are you familiar with visual novels?

[glossy cedar]

Yes

[lyric venture]

And he has apologized that he wasn't as communicative about the reasons why that was then he perhaps should have been. But he has explained it on quite a few occasions.

[glossy cedar]

Progress on them should be linear (as in content, not in timeline) unless you're working in higher dimensions of time

[glossy cedar]

I see

[brazen drift]

Yeah. I mean he wanted to pay his moderators which is a lot of paperwork since some of those arent even in the USA so theres EXTRA shenans

[lyric venture]

When you have a community that goes from like 50-300 viewers to 5-15k viewers, and so you make a business out of it, and do the ferret rescue and working on getting that up and running and growing, its a lot of work.

[earnest cove]

Yeah so imagine visual novels that take into account of every little action. Fight has started? Dialogue and consequence for having full health, dialogue and consequence for 25% less health, dialogue and consequence for 50% health, so on so on. There's even an event if you don't move at all.

[opaque raven]

You could ofc ask Thor himself but from my understanding from the things he said many times is that a huge part of the time used now is on writing. Not only dialogues in itself but also planning, covering routes and etc. The base mechanics are done, the system works, now it's mostly content writing and this takes a lot of time based on his vision of the project

[jolly sky]

You know what does?

Creating a Business (so he could pay his mods)
Creating the Ferret Rescue
Managing the Ferret Rescue
Doing the job he held at Offbrand
Doing his mushroom farming
Normal Streaming stuff
Managing his stream
Enjoying any downtime he has when he isn't working

etc etc

[lyric venture]

And yeah, its even crazier to set it up with people across the world because pay and benefits and everything else is a nightmare even in the US and different state rules, nevermind other countries

[earnest cove]

oh the year and a half missing? All paperwork yes

setting up a company, writing employment things, so on and so on

Currently, the bottleneck is writing all the dialogue and consequences of actions

[brazen drift]

Yeah. paperwork, legalees, securing things, contacting police to warn them he might get swatted (which he has been several times)

[lyric venture]

But he started putting up updates every month and as he has stated a lot lately, 98% of it is writing which is a slow process when you are doing it from different characters and different paths. The code/implementation is very easy. Writing story is not.

[earnest cove]

The game is supposed to have 7 endings, 1 non-ending (it loops back into the game), so he has to write all the paths to get to either one of those seven.

[muted robin]

I like the variation that's "it aint honest work but it's much"

[hollow eagle]

I would say they're equally difficult depending on who you are

And if u have a team

[brazen drift]

i as trying so hard to find that one orz

[earnest cove]

Fate stay Night was like, 1 million words i think. That's just 3 endings and i think 18 bad ends

bad ends meaning player take the wrong action

so, just 3 proper endings was 1 million words

[opaque raven]

Save the animals

[earnest cove]

technically 6 because the proper endings have an alternate variation as well

[glossy cedar]

I am curious, does minor information carry over through chapters?

I haven't played games similar to HB, but in visual novels i've played, information used for branching is usually kept pretty constant

[golden latch]

And thor isnt a writer by trade so its not his strongest skill so it takes even longer

[earnest cove]

Ya that's what he's trying to do

just like a visual novel

[jolly sky]

This is the map of all the player choices;

[brazen drift]

Visual Novel meets RPG

[golden latch]

Yeah “your actions have consequences” is a major point

[earnest cove]

I don't know how FAR the stuff carries over tho i'm not the dev

In his ideal mind, it should matter all the way to the end

[golden latch]

Back like 6 years ago for 3 worlds before they gave up

[earnest cove]

i'm a writer and this gives me nightmares already lol

so, so much thinking and writing there

[golden latch]

There are now 7 worlds

[glossy cedar]

This implicates that it's harder if you "remove the programming" of making a game
I can definitely see this being true if PS isn't the fastest writer (i'd definitely struggle myself lol)

[brazen drift]

It's an incredible project for like. One dude to take on writing/code wise (since he contracts out the art and music) so of course it's gonna take a good while. Nobody's screaming at the star citizen guy and those people release ships worth 5k REAL Dollars

[golden latch]

Yeah the programming has been done for a while its mostly the story line now

[earnest cove]

Actually, there are. Some people calling it an elaborate scam by now

[brazen drift]

GOOD

i hope the game comes out for the people who paid into it but looking from the outside that game is bait

[lyric venture]

Yeah I would argue that people have called out that project cause of how long its taken, but its also raised I believe hundreds of millions at this point.

[earnest cove]

Thor himself called it Store Citizen and probably got a lot of flak for that

[brazen drift]

well he wasnt wrong

[golden latch]

Scam citizen and store citizen are common critic names now

[hollow eagle]

I've played Star Citizen the flying is fun

Other than that it makes my brain hurt

[glossy cedar]

Alternatively, late is temporary, suck is forever (Gabe)

[jolly sky]

I mean, if you're spending millions on a studio for a game that hasn't even released (early access) and is unproven to work in its final form of their "idea", then some questions need to get asked

[brazen drift]

now imagine thor doing that for heartbound where he kept putting out different colored costumes for the MC at like dollars a pop, for a game in Early Access.

[earnest cove]

star citizen is having the same issue. scale huge. long time. people get suspicious. One of my friend has preview of the alphas and it has a smooth transistion from space to landing. no loading screens

[hollow eagle]

It's a functioning game tho

[brazen drift]

games in early access that get DLC infuriate me to no end

[hollow eagle]

True... it's also ships that u might lose when it goes out of alpha too

[earnest cove]

It's the kind of loading i think most pcs can't handle it. It's ambitious tho

[hollow eagle]

Think about that

[lyric venture]

Difference there is someone could spend hundreds of dollars (or more) expecting a product. Heartbound is $10.

If you are legit upset that a game you bought for $10 is taking a bit to get finished, I personally think you need to reevaluate some things.

[brazen drift]

The best thing is its like 99% chat hoppers who didn't contribute to the kickstarter complaining about the game.

[earnest cove]

Oh people do... they really do

[brazen drift]

I mean dang, how longs Project Zomboid been in early access?

[earnest cove]

Sad reality but people do

[jolly sky]

Exactly. Getting that mad over it would only make sense if Heartbound was the only game you had ever bought, played and obsessed over, which in itself is another level of insane

[glossy cedar]

It doesn't seem to be "getting more complicated"
Like sure it's hard as it is but do choices made in the very beginning matter later?

That's what I was kind of getting at

[jolly sky]

This is only 3 worlds out of 7

So yes, it has gotten a LOT more complicated

[golden latch]

Oh do games like dwarf fortress ever get actually completed since they dont have a win condition? cause the funny dwarf game is decades old now

[lyric venture]

I haven't personally played the game (though I did buy it) so I couldn't tell you but from what I understand things you do at the beginning can make a difference down the line.

[earnest cove]

Oh dwarf fortress

I played that.

the game was in development for 30-40 years and some peopel DID complain

[brazen drift]

I think dwarf fortress is a whole other beast honestly

[earnest cove]

most of the complaining is after it became official on steam

[dire burrow]

Completing Dwarf Fortress is finding the !!FUN!!

[golden latch]

you mean dying

[dire burrow]

losing is fun

[brazen drift]

Also i feel like theres a difference between "game with no end" and "developers are satisfied that the game is as feature complete as they want it to be"

[jolly sky]

There are a lot of choices that effect the relationships between you and other characters in the game. There are even dialogue and relationship changes that occur depending on how much HP you have left after a fights with certain characters. And its just one small aspect of it.

[dusky grove]

I mean, you'd think after until dawn and all the other games by that studio that people would accept that in some games your choices do matter

[gloomy forge]

Hence the !!FUN!!, it was written like when you step into poison in dark souls so you can mentally prepare yourself losing your souls already sometimes games do be like that.

[earnest cove]

Dwarf fortress many people getting darn salty that they didn't have Adventure Mode done by the time of Steam release

i think they actually implementing that again

[golden latch]

I mean both work with dwarf fortress they haven’t exactly stopped adding things

[dusky grove]

Like ffs, we've had branching paths in games since chrono trigger, maybe earlier

[brazen drift]

which is why i said dwarf fortress is an entirely different beast.

[golden latch]

I think it just has been in development for 20+ years and gamers dont know how game dev works

[brazen drift]

wait till code jesus finds out about dwarf fortress

[jolly sky]

The only reason hardware technology continues marching on, is to meet the demand of Dwarf Fortress

[brazen drift]

I'd LOVE for that guy to go look at Byond code

[golden latch]

you may be onto something

[gloomy forge]

Crysis had to walk so Dwarf Fortress can run.

[brazen drift]

touch something mech related in byond code it kicks the entire game square in the tortellini's.

[jolly sky]

Without Dwarf Fortress, we'd still be running on AMD Athlons and Intel Pentiums /s

[glossy cedar]

Yes but is that complexity in the six first worlds reflected in the seventh?
Here, this should explain it, where each rectangle is a major segment in the narrative, be it worlds, chapter, etc

[jolly sky]

#streamchat message

[glossy cedar]

Oh I do get the relationships, I can see how that becomes hard to evaluate

[void kiln]

What's the quote from Gabe Newell sometimes a game gets delayed. Suck is forever it'll be done when the developer feels it's ready for release

[jolly sky]

I'm not understanding how you're geting confused about it really

[brazen drift]

something something mindseye

[golden latch]

There are even choices that are not expected like if you abstain from choosing a two answer solution you may find a new third path for example or the longer you stay in a room different outcomes will be created.

[golden latch]

I think they may be comparing it to other games that try similar things but have a “main story”

[glossy cedar]

Basically if you're working with relatively constant information it should not become harder to continue to add stuff
Even if something like relationships carry over there shouldn't be an ever-increasing amount of characters (unless there is)

[glossy cedar]

Not exactly, more like as the story progresses irrelevant or minor information is discarded over time which prevents the second scenario in the example I gave

[earnest cove]

Wait until he finds out about Undertale and Funger too 🤣 he'll have an aneurysm

[golden latch]

Well some world have more inter-character interaction then others animus is a highly social place in the setting so lots of one actions effects others and changes in dialogue with that

[jolly sky]

Well, you don't meet all the characters at the beginning. More get introduced as the game goes on, and their behaviour can be based of how you've interacted with other previous characters.

All it should really take is looking at that screenshot of the (old version) of the map to get an idea of how complex the writing is when you're having to write dialogue, and the behaviour and emotions of the characters in the game when there are multiple different "timeline" versions of each character in the game

[golden latch]

There are 4 completely different story ends (not including you died wish to start over? Ending)

[brazen drift]

maybe he'll take a look at delta rune /j

[lyric venture]

Yes, though lately he has been working on configs for Blockgame (when he does dev streams)

[golden latch]

He does code for certain things. for heartbound since there isnt much coding left and its all writing he doesnt stream it anymore but on blockgame his side project he does do some occasional

[earnest cove]

I honestly don't know if deltarune has better code. Maybe toby got better. Maybe also it's a memefest

[brazen drift]

Because he's one man who also runs a Business rescuing Ferrets.

fug

[ionic sleet]

didn't blue prince take 8 years to complete?

[jolly sky]

Read up, and you will see that Writing is a LOT of work,

[ionic sleet]

writing and puzzle making takes time

[glossy cedar]

looking at that screenshot
Yeah but I see the former happening there, as in the worlds seem separate and your choices gets condensed into something like three possible timelines, therefore information is lost

Maybe I am missing something though

[ionic sleet]

Covid, setting up a business, working out the ferret rescue, etc. shit takes time

[lyric venture]

At this point im curious on what you are trying to get to?

[brazen drift]

i had my artist glove on it hit enter 😭

every day except wednesdays and thursdays for 12 hours

[golden latch]

Here is just three areas choice map (incomplete maps mind you) this game is about 100s if not thousands of paths and choices you can make and all of them effect gameplay its a experimental rpg not based around combat or puzzle solving but story telling (they have a hidden arg if you want puzzles)

[ionic sleet]

the war making the russian translation dead at this point. logistics for everything

[lyric venture]

5 days a week generally, Friday-Tuesday. Takes Wed and Thursday off.

[brazen drift]

He also explained he doesnt do much gamedev work on streams because the majority of his audience thinks its boring.

[lyric venture]

So yeah roughly 60 hours a week if not more.

[brazen drift]

is what youve seen just... shorts? from the past year?

[ionic sleet]

and you cant exactly force writing

[kindred sedge]

This week he is streaming on Thursday for his birthday and game jam start

[brazen drift]

or from hateslop on youtube

[jolly sky]

It's more the writing part that is boring, and he cannot get into the characters, emotions, and behaviours when you have 5K+ people chatting at you which obviously makes sense

[kindred sedge]

Is your pfp Patrick but with the final boss of earthbound 2?

[lyric venture]

Well, He has. Lately between Dune and other games he works on Blockgame, his Minecraft mod MMO. Much of that works is YAML configuration tweaks.

[brazen drift]

yeah thats also true

[golden latch]

Remember game development isnt just “coding”

[ionic sleet]

but is it evidence or is just nonsense wrapped in a fancy bow making you think that way

[gritty tartan]

he said that about writing part.

[kindred sedge]

Totally off topic of the epic le owned moment your trying to set up but I'm just curious

[jolly rock]

Did Thor delete his live for today? I usually play catch up but i cant see today's one 😔

[lyric venture]

But yeah, gave dev is "development of game". Code, music, configuration.

[brazen drift]

It takes george RR martin forever to write a book, aint nobody tryin to swat george rr martin

[lyric venture]

Sadly yes, he had a bunch of chat hopping today so things devloved.

[brazen drift]

No

He has An Artist, and a Musician

on contract

[lyric venture]

He has an artist and music person but beyond that for Heartbound no. For Blockgame he and Jake work on it.

[gritty tartan]

yup, over 2k bans today... so... no vod.

[jolly sky]

Only for music and art. He does the coding. He does the story.

[ionic sleet]

took forever for the dragons

[golden latch]

Yes he has a artist and musician that it

[ionic sleet]

3 person team

[kindred sedge]

Ugh you expect us to answer all your questions but you can't answer mine?

[jolly rock]

Ahh that sucks. OK thank you for replying hopefully the next stream is better

[golden latch]

For a massively experimental project i think they are doing great

[ionic sleet]

3 person team still does not mean fast dev work

[golden latch]

We try to be a pg 13 server

[lyric venture]

Yeah, the last couple of hours was just a nightmare of chat hopping.

[ionic sleet]

I think people are just spoiled. creating a game can easily take 5+ years

[brazen drift]

also did you buy heartbound? just out of curiosity

[earnest cove]

A bunch of new anti Thor videos dropped

[jolly sky]

It was, absolutely insane garbage

[golden latch]

9 pregnant women cant make a baby in 1 month

[kindred sedge]

And they gone

[golden latch]

Ops

[jolly sky]

Oh lmao they're gone

[brazen drift]

hey i was talking to that :(

[jolly sky]

I saw the angle they were going for

Fortunately, it didn't come to pass

[brazen drift]

i mean yeah they wre clearly just here to start manure so

[kindred sedge]

Yea they were trying to set up an epic le gottem thing

[golden latch]

Yeah wanted to see if they would get there or if they would realize the folly

[lyric venture]

Yeah it was clearly they were just here to stir things up

[ionic sleet]

trying to lead a convo but we aern't falling for it

[jolly sky]

Thanks whoever got that shot off

[brazen drift]

When the development angle didnt work they pulled out "Ol Unreliable"

[hasty grail]

man its like weve been through all these angles before, welcome to Geometry 201 everyone

[kindred sedge]

Their profile picture was neat at least. Earthbound 2 final boss on Patrick

[golden latch]

I love maths

[brazen drift]

nono, they are the ONLY people who have tried doing that in the history of this discord. clearly their gacha's will work since they arent like other people.

[hasty grail]

ive been fishin, game is good

[glossy cedar]

On why it's more complicated to add content now, even accounting for characters, relationships the work needed for writing shouldn't increase the way it seems to be doing (not the constant complexity, I get that choices matter, but . Again, probably missing something

I would understand the increase if it worked similar to something like the stanely parable where the narrative is almost two dimensional, but looking at these graphs they seem to be more one dimensional. Just a broader kind of one dimensionality, as in different choises will lead to different outcomes but you will (or won't) eventually go to the same kind of areas as you would with other choises

At this point though I might just not continue as this wasn't my initial point of interest, but rather the code, then it transitioned into this I guess

[hasty grail]

[jolly sky]

It's the;

"Explain why"

• Explains it
  "Why is it that way?"
• Explains why its that way
  "I don't like that explanation"

[twilit crystal]

Its just the "god of the gaps" over and over.

[trim crater]

People that compare mainstream companies that have 100's and+ devs, to a solo or small group of indie devs are insane.

[hasty grail]

i hope everyone here has a good July 18, because that appears to be a date with a number of free to play games getting updates or major devstreams

[jolly sky]

https://tenor.com/view/walken-christopher-walken-too-bad-gif-5247840

[brazen drift]

even people comparing solo devs to other solo devs are insane. everyone works at a different pace

[hasty grail]

mechabreak, the horse gacha, and warframe to name a few

[golden latch]

And even then the classic 9 mothers cant make a baby in 1 month idea is there there are some things even a large team of experts cant speed up.

[trim crater]

True and real, especially if they cant afford assets or outside help. + has day jobs etc.

[ionic sleet]

it just hilarious all this crap over heartbound when gta6 and ES6 fans are waiting longer

[hasty grail]

they announced ES6 just to get people to stop asking

which i respect them for

[brazen drift]

I was gonna say we all know the people coming in here yelling about game times arent old enough to remember when skyrim released.

[ionic sleet]

they announced it years ago though

[brazen drift]

the FIRST TIME-

[golden latch]

https://tenor.com/view/meridia's-beacon-a-new-hand-touches-the-beacon-skyrim-meridia-gif-8972471583160992381

[brazen drift]

forgot that skyrims been re-released like 80 times

[golden latch]

Speaker blow out

[brazen drift]

God

[golden latch]

They eventually fixed it… after like 7 years

[ionic sleet]

I bought the thicc book for skyrim that listed all the quests etc. my first ES game. I put 7 years into that damn game

and it had a shit ton of bugs

cant wait for UE skyrim lol

while waiting for ES6

[soft vector]

Almost everyone asking when heartbound is getting released isn't asking because they genuinely want to know, they do it to try and get a rise out of Thor

[brazen drift]

nono, ES6 is just UE skyrim

[brazen drift]

yeah. its gross as heck. not even 0.1% of those people actually bought it either

[golden latch]

Im waiting for skywind and skyblivion

[ionic sleet]

I thought one of those were cancelled

[hasty grail]

Skyblivion got delayed due to the devs getting Oblivion remaster keys

[brazen drift]

"we are delaying FF14 reborn because like all of you, i too wish to play eldenring"

[ionic sleet]

omg skywind has been going on for 10 years now. wow

[golden latch]

Game dev takes a while especially in small teams

Most games i have, have been developed for more then 5 years as a base line (or they are a small basic arcade game that took 1 month )

[jolly sky]

I think its being done by volunteers as well which also increases time

[golden latch]

Yeah they have lives that take priority sometimes

[ionic sleet]

even with a headstart of pre made assets

[golden latch]

Its a hobby 100%

[split tulip]

Yah, modding is a hobby for most people

[golden latch]

Cant make money off the product only support as donations if that

[split tulip]

Also you can have team members just disappear due to IRL stuff

[golden latch]

Such as dead

[ionic sleet]

spent a year modding every skyrim town like JK/dawn of did with new models etc. but when i was finished my PC couldn't even play the remaster that well

[reef geyser]

Yep. Unfortunately an effective troll tactic is to take something that can be framed in a sort of genuine way, but the intentions behind the choice of doing so are nefarious ones. So while asking for info on a project's release date is at face value a normal question, 95% of the people bringing it up in the past couple weeks aren't doing so out of genuine interest. It's as a side-way of prodding and insulting about "game dev taking long you bad dev".

[split tulip]

Eh it's usually because they graduated collage, got a job or a kid. Something taht takes up their time. Also people just lose interest over time

[golden latch]

I know but a dev dying is a huge cause for delay as well and has been well documented with longer dev cycles.

[split tulip]

I used to work on some multiplayer mods but lost interest after a while

[glossy cedar]

I don't think it's the absolute, but the relative, at least currently, gta is expected to release a year later than intended (let's be very pessimistic, so 25%), in stark contrast to the ~7 years (over 120%)
Like if I started making a game and said it would release 20 years from when I started development, it would not be a problem that I would be 14 years into development
But whatever

[split tulip]

Yeah, bus factor is real

[hollow eagle]

I've had ppl in my college game-a-week course make full games in 1 week

[sleek seal]

psst, @spice hearth you want to be here

probably

[spice hearth]

i dont agree with hating on thor for having an opinion

[sleek seal]

right, and I will show you his side of things

[spice hearth]

but how is letting people access the product they paid for a bad thing

[hollow eagle]

True

[golden latch]

Okay… how do you implement this?

[jolly sky]

Because the way it is worded completely breaks IP and Copyright law, and the initiative completely ignores that. And Expert EU lawyers agree

[hollow eagle]

That's for the multi billion dollar $$$$ studios to decide

[sleek seal]

in a vacuum, it isn't, but SKG was stripped down to be basically binary - you're either pro-SKG or a piece of crap

[golden latch]

Nope thats for the government to decide and the corporations have to then follow

[hollow eagle]

We will see when it passes

[split tulip]

If it was as simple as pushing a button, then companies would already do that. It's a lot bigger than that. A whole rabbit hole

[sleek seal]

@spice hearth before you continue, let me give you a bit of context

[split tulip]

and it's kinda been debated to death here

[golden latch]

And even then since you give the corporations control to “decide” okay they release a “playable” version with no assets a placeholder player character and a white open map. They have fufilled the requirements

[hollow eagle]

[golden latch]

Or hey the skg is put into place were everything is put perfectly into law, now all games are subscriptions congrats

[hollow eagle]

They already are

[brazen drift]

Expedition 33 begs to differ

[hollow eagle]

I'm being dramatic

[golden latch]

They are liscensed, legally very different

[nova bough]

why are we discussing the thing ™

[hollow eagle]

I don't know but this is funny

It's going to pass. We will see how things unfold

[golden latch]

I guess general chat has decided to point all skg here rather then #mod-ticket

[spare topaz]

do we really have to do this dance all over again?

[split tulip]

when we could be discussing how to spread Democracy

[hollow eagle]

We cannot change the outcome

Exactly

[nova bough]

depends on how much is invalid, but otherwise yeah

[split tulip]

Is that ai or Australian

[hollow eagle]

That's certainly part of the unfolding

[jolly sky]

It's already been declared as a bunch of BS by the EU lawyers who have an ear to the commission so, we'll see how that turns out.

[hollow eagle]

I'd love to see where you are getting this information

[golden latch]

And why we dont want to discuss it cause there is nothing we can do till lawmakers deal with it. So the discussion are pointless and just drama stirring and why we ban it normally.

[hollow eagle]

[jolly sky]

...from the very same group who released a statement on it.

[hollow eagle]

Where?

[golden latch]

Sauce time

[hollow eagle]

Send me the article

[split tulip]

someone has the link saved, I'm sure of it. It's from video games Europe

[golden latch]

It takes action a moment but he will bring the dets

[jolly sky]

I have it, and I'm giving it to you in a dm

[golden latch]

🙏

[split tulip]

I knew someone had it on speed dial

[jolly sky]

Take the time to read it. Again, this group are Experts in EU law, and every developer from AAA to Solo developers can sign up for their protections, as is their right.

[trim crater]

Too meme-y

sorry

[hollow eagle]

this does say it won't work for all games yes but it also states the validity of the movement. of course it won't work for all existing games, but players do want an end of life plan for the game

[blissful imp]

Is Australia a real place?

[jolly sky]

Read it first, then come back

'cause you didn't read it entirely in less than a minute

[brazen drift]

Keep talking about it in DMs then

[blissful imp]

i actually don't know if its ai. i just searched up Quakka on Startpage

[split tulip]

not on any of my maps so

[brazen drift]

:(

[jolly sky]

I'm leaving the conversation there, as the document says all that needs to be said really

[golden latch]

https://tenor.com/view/awww-animals-cuteness-quokka-gif-17999442

They are real

[trim crater]

https://tenor.com/view/dylang626-pooti-crypto-cat-pooti-token-cat-meme-coin-gif-17942751157860734646

[twilit crystal]

What happened to the stream last night. I had to go to bed as it was 2am here, but then went to catch up this morning and it was privated 😦

[kindred sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/spider-man-tom-holland-yoink-gif-11346283

[brazen drift]

drama

[wet storm]

Lol critical hit on me giggle bone

[jolly sky]

Bunch of chat hoppers from multiple other community's left their shit all over the carpet

[brazen drift]

i thin about 2thousand people were banned this last stream

[wet storm]

Sides successfully taken off

Dunno why I found that so funny

[split tulip]

https://tenor.com/view/steven-he-emotional-damage-steven-he-emotional-damage-gif-23428142

[golden latch]

Youtube auto privates streams over 12 hours and thor hasnt unprovated cause of over 1500+ bans closer to 2k

[twilit crystal]

Ugh. 😦 Such annoy.

I did see that ban counter. Thats insane

[blissful imp]

i don't like that it has a long ratlike tail. in an image like this it looks...

[twilit crystal]

Is that a wallaby?

[golden latch]

Quakka

[twilit crystal]

Ahhhh

[sleek seal]

let's consider the following: Thor has been extremely pro-indie, and very anti-government. US govt is known for absolutely massacring good ideas, and EU govt is not that much better when working with not so well established topics. Hell, let me take this a step further: how would you feel if a bunch of old farts monkey-pawed SKG into an abomination?

With that in mind let's talk about the bad parts of SKG:

1. While having good intentions at its core, it's very loose, leaving a lot of ground for interpretation by people who couldn't care less about the goal.
2. Lawmakers are, generally, in their later 40s, 50s and 60s. Do you trust these people to make a good decision about a thing they haven't bothered to even consider until this point?
3. There is already significant pushback from the industry.
4. The whole movement was sold on a populist slogan, with a couple more sprinkles hidden in the FAQ.

Now, I am a gamer, with a long, long history of gaming. I now work for a software company as a... let's say Cloud IT person. I've tinkered with and hosted community servers for MMOs like WoW, Lineage 2, and now hosting Minecraft, Valheim and w/e else servers for my friend group and sometimes communities I am a part of.

I have the server capacity for it, because I own a server, and I host servers designed to be end-user-hostable. Back in the day, you could host a WoW or a Lineage 2 server emulator fairly easily, on your own machine. But larger, more stable servers for L2 were hosted on actual server hardware, and required multiple servers to host.

I'll continue in the next message

[blissful imp]

Quokka

[twilit crystal]

Yep. Checks out. Australia land has the coolest animals 😛

[trim crater]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/692129577551659079/1361322149545246842/yonovoyadecirnada.gif ^

[brazen drift]

NO NO NEXT MESSAGE

[spice hearth]

theres like way too much details in everything

[brazen drift]

THUNDERDOME IS DEAD

[split tulip]

I wonder how much mail going to Australia ends up in Austria

[wet storm]

I ain't reading all that
Happy for you though 😊 or Sorry that happened 😢

[split tulip]

and we have killed it

[wet storm]

Meanwhile back at the thunderdome

[azure glen]

Just let this discussion die

[blissful imp]

Sadly not the smartest... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awwQC-32R2k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxoW0zXiZ8Q

[wet storm]

https://tenor.com/view/war-adventuretime-wartimeruins-devastation-ruins-gif-4726172

[split tulip]

some things don't need a sequel

[wet storm]

The horse is dead, don't beat the dead horse

It's deader than dead

[twilit crystal]

According to Dave Jones at the EEVBlog... Alot 😛

[golden latch]

Yeah the initiative didnt go into really any of it when they could have is our problem and many of us dont trust the lawmakers the advocates or the game publishers and ip owners to do what the initiative wants or the right thing in the end.

[wet storm]

It's been turned to glue and used to close the barn door shut

[glad flame]

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-stop-hes-already-dead-gif-15192144

[spice hearth]

i mean im not tech savvy in the slightest

[golden latch]

Thats okay

[analog sphinx]

hey!

[sleek seal]

it takes time to write things out, give me a few

[analog sphinx]

whats being discussed here

[spice hearth]

but i dont get if people disagree with the specifics or overall message that massive companies shouldnt be allowed to shut games down completely

[golden latch]

Beakfast

[vocal crystal]

where's this doc? I'd like a gander aswell

[wet storm]

What is YOUR 🫵 favourite pizza topping?

[brazen drift]

[analog sphinx]

[blissful imp]

there's a really messed up joke i thought of after reading this. And no it doesn't have to do with animals. it has to do with horses is all i'll say.

[jolly sky]

Dm'ing you

[wet storm]

I signed it and I CBA to discuss SKG

[trim crater]

Mushrooms and smoked bacon + garlic

[blissful imp]

i wont say it tho

[vocal crystal]

thank ya thank ya

[trim crater]

Peppers too

[kindred sedge]

I just orders pizza and I got it DEEP DISH WITH LIGHT SAUCE!

[spice hearth]

https://tenor.com/view/mistake-murder-execution-gun-harry-gif-19890471

[kindred sedge]

IM A BASIC BOTCH!

[wet storm]

Whatever floats your olive slices

You want basic b?

[spice hearth]

mushrooms feel like eating a stress ball that tastes like its been coated in feces

[wet storm]

I like pepperoni

[split tulip]

they do heavy sauce too?

[trim crater]

Ye i bet you like sardines or some fish on your pizza

[muted robin]

the majority of people who disagree with skg only disagree with the specific wording/implementation and aren't straight up against the idea of preserving games. it's kind of insanity to think that the average Game Enjoyer would go "no i hate being able to play games after they stop being sold/having access/etc"

but i think anything more and we might go too far into discussing thunderdome territory

[trim crater]

[golden latch]

Many of us dont but the initiative we feel has more chance for harm then good we have given alternatives that we would believe would work towards that goal with specific and meaningful outcomes such as single-player online drm being changed at eol to allow players to continue playing. Would have been a slam dunk

[analog sphinx]

Huh?

[wet storm]

Once I ordered a pepperoni pizza. It came with tomato slices

[spice hearth]

anchovies

[muted robin]

that's just what i've gathered from people in this chat

[twilit crystal]

Guess they arent fans of the supercars.. Must be F1 guys.

[brazen drift]

https://tenor.com/view/sun-the-office-shut-up-gif-19330811

[wet storm]

I asked if they could substitute the tomato slices with more pepperoni

They did

[trim crater]

You are not eating mushrooms then but industrial rubber.
Your pizzeria failed you

[golden latch]

I mean skg isnt about preservation of games tbf

[wet storm]

Mamma Mia they burned down the pizzeria

[spice hearth]

the only pizzareia within like 30kms of my house is a dominos

[twilit crystal]

Our faunae are either the most adorable little dudes on the planet, or the most deadly.. Probably both.

[spice hearth]

and id rather just get chinese food anyway

[split tulip]

car tyres are not a pizza topping

[golden latch]

want a video?

[trim crater]

Ye you're stinky fish guy Lil stinker ... lil fishy boy ... lil finny

[twilit crystal]

NGL: that guy was my favourite in Silicon Valley

[flat root]

Clearly your pizza isn't big enough

[golden latch]

Since you like tire pizza

[split tulip]

[wet storm]

https://i.imgflip.com/a09uef.gif

Literally 1984

[sleek seal]

When Lineage 2 was a big thing, there were generally 2 types of servers: server emulators written in Java and leaked PTR servers, hosted with binaries stolen from devs.
The PTR binaries required you to stand up Microsoft SQL Server, run on Windows Server OS and it had major hardware requirements. You couldn't just grab an .exe, double click it, and have your buddy join you. Wasn't a thing that was considered. Normally, private servers using these binaries were hosted by someone in IT, who snagged a used enterprise server and had a space in the rack for it.

The WoW servers consist of two separate independent servers: auth server, which checks your password and subscription, and realm server, where people are actually playing - this is the absolute minimum, but generally you would have multipole realm servers, separate DB servers and also battleground and dungeon servers. Things are complicated.

All that wall of text above was just to show you that simply publishing server binaries for an MMO wouldn't work for most cases.

For the live-service games a bunch of the same complications would apply: they are designed to take on tens of thousands to possibly millions of players.

[spice hearth]

the saltiness perfectly contrasts the sweet tomato sauce and rich cheese, and the melty mouch feeling of anchovies topped with some balsamic vinegar and its perfection

[wet storm]

Omg dude stop vomitting essays

[trim crater]

Vinegar ?
ewww

[golden latch]

🤮

[trim crater]

[spice hearth]

if ur insinuating that you dont like chinese food you need a neurological exam

[spice hearth]

balsamic vinegar

[split tulip]

https://tenor.com/view/rules-reeves-excommunicado-john-wick-gif-19346376

[spice hearth]

sweeter

[wet storm]

ANIMALS?

[winged knoll]

Why do we talk about redacted again

[wet storm]

HYDRATE NOW

[spice hearth]

the americanitis here is horrifying

[winged knoll]

Mod twist his testiculars

[golden latch]

[wet storm]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-monkey-throw-monkey-bottle-monkey-throw-bottle-gif-18261736954649180075

[trim crater]

What i dont live where Chinese food is ...what if i ..have all my life cooked for myself
What if ..all the ingredients are home grown ....
What if im Amish

https://tenor.com/view/amish-paradise-gif-26821095

[dire burrow]

Chat.

[spice hearth]

then how would you access discord

[golden latch]

Bat

[dire burrow]

We're not discussing SKG here anymore.

[brazen drift]

Mod please

[dire burrow]

Cease.

[kindred sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/yippee-burn-tbh-fire-gif-1464924163788048068

[brazen drift]

thank u 😭

[trim crater]

maybe i sneak in a device made from stone and old car batteries

[split tulip]

https://tenor.com/view/ferret-attack-gif-24550066

[brazen drift]

what is your favorite bread ill sneak you some

[wet storm]

What if I wanna go to Greece and have to land in SKG?

[trim crater]

Garlic olive one

[golden latch]

Can you tell general to stop sending them here and tell them to just #mod-ticket next time?

[trim crater]

Good bread

[spice hearth]

'hey waitress, givus sum o dem tater tots and 112 ounces o dat bootiful brisket ya gots smokin back der, and i wants me sum whiskey to wash out me gullet and keep me singin voice gud'

https://tenor.com/view/merica-america-murcia-usa-drink-gif-22422112

[golden latch]

[wet storm]

And they're typing another essay

[golden latch]

Gonna get eaten by wolph

[wet storm]

#streamchat message

In case you missed it

[trim crater]

Brisket is good tho with some nice sauce

[sleek seal]

this is an enormous wall of text that I can refer to later

welp

[trim crater]

https://tenor.com/view/smoke-sessions-smokey-sessions-smoked-bbq-gif-12138443

[dire burrow]

What did I just say.

[trim crater]

look at that bad boy

[dire burrow]

We are not discussing SKG here.

[spice hearth]

yeah but texans seem to make a religion out of it

as far as i know

[wet storm]

Is that brisket?

[brazen drift]

Exodia Obliterated

[edgy oar]

You were repeatedly told to not discuss it anymore and ignored eveyone. No surprise it got deleted.

[wet storm]

Oh you said it's brisket

[spice hearth]

with my only source being young sheldon

[trim crater]

one of many...

[wet storm]

I never had it

I hear it's goooood

[edgy oar]

Man now I want brisket

[sleek seal]

https://tenor.com/view/grouchy-not-a-morning-person-woke-up-grumpy-grumpy-cat-gif-9744404847013408910

[trim crater]

Yeah Brisket up Chat

[vocal crystal]

its very good and not hard to make

[edgy oar]

https://tenor.com/view/brisket-squirting-loeyxcx-ihateloey-meat-gif-23587613

[golden latch]

https://tenor.com/view/meat-squish-smash-فعص-لحم-gif-26866471

[brazen drift]

Take it to DMs if you're that passionate about it

[trim crater]

https://tenor.com/view/sam-cooking-sam-the-cooking-guy-brisket-bbq-gif-18538129

[spice hearth]

https://tenor.com/view/orange-chicken-fried-rice-chinese-food-gif-1379709692876815784

[kindred sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/bazinga-blackbolt-gif-16400117089202280912

[brazen drift]

also pls, not the food porn its going to make me hungry nooooo

[edgy oar]

I think all the brisket just caused my Discord to reset

[trim crater]

https://tenor.com/view/chocolate-chocolate-cake-creamy-smooth-soft-gif-27561914

[winged knoll]

[trim crater]

Pudding of chocolate for everyone

[dire burrow]

[winged knoll]

I ceases to exist

[spice hearth]

what animal does brisket come from

[vocal crystal]

beef

[winged knoll]

It came from a plant actually

[trim crater]

or veal

ye

[split tulip]

The Briskador

[spice hearth]

o thought it was pig

[vocal crystal]

it is the from part of the cow, think of the pectoralis muscle

[spice hearth]

ive never eaten beef or pig

[wet storm]

Chocolate brisket

[wary saffron]

https://tenor.com/view/erm-erm-moo-moo-erm-cow-erm-moo-cow-gif-25365076

[spice hearth]

only chicken

https://tenor.com/view/chicken-chickenbro-calling-dance-sing-gif-6667284142870503542

[edgy oar]

https://tenor.com/view/pulled-pork-gif-27665264

[trim crater]

So tender

[spice hearth]

chicken is the superior meat

[wet storm]

These exist btw

[spice hearth]

chicken soup

fried chicken

[wet storm]

https://tenor.com/view/cow-gif-12926715053264203300

[spice hearth]

grilled chicken

chicken kiev

[wet storm]

That's a highland coo

[spice hearth]

chicken balls

chicken nuggets

tenders

[wary saffron]

do love a good highland

[wet storm]

https://tenor.com/view/picking-nose-runny-nose-beast-ew-gross-gif-13782100

[vocal crystal]

who... who hurt you

[toxic rampart]

I'm daily Pesce-pollotarian but will do borderline vulgar things to a slow cooked Boston shoulder

[spice hearth]

chicken thigh

[wet storm]

They become this

And then brisket I suppose

[edgy oar]

https://tenor.com/view/cheeseburger-stacked-burger-tower-tall-big-gif-5715233482568075672

[dire burrow]

did you just reply to
"what animal does brisket come from" with

beef

thats incredible

+2

[vocal crystal]

bow

[golden latch]

The brisket cut is notorious for being tough and stringy and the only way to make it palatable and delicious is the butcher way of long low cooking

[split tulip]

beef is my favorite animal too

[wary saffron]

It's not their turn with the communal braincell

[idle hill]

beef is my favorite animal

[vocal crystal]

its cause the muscle fibers are so dense as it is required to support bout 60% of the animals weight

[idle hill]

very taste

[golden latch]

Do i tell them beef is the actual name of the animal as cow is the female bovine and the bull is the male

[spice hearth]

the only thing that americans do right is that arizona tea

[jolly sky]

Important news, some genius Metal Gear Solid Modder has made it possible to use the HF Blade from the beginning of the game, fully implemented;

[spice hearth]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-12361655654679969287

[vocal crystal]

dont forget back to back world war champs

[trim crater]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-meat-cat-surprised-meat-cat-woah-cat-gif-27407026

[spice hearth]

dont ever say that shit again

america pussy footed around while the real gaffer stepped up to the plate and hit a home run

[golden latch]

Oh come on

[spice hearth]

https://tenor.com/view/winston-churchill-gif-18626195

[dire burrow]

what did you expect bluedragon

[golden latch]

Auto mod 😡

[vocal crystal]

absolute legend of a man

[golden latch]

I was being informative

[spice hearth]

when the world needed a hero

a god arrived

[golden latch]

Atleast you can read it wolph

[vocal crystal]

totally different breed, a literal himothy

[dire burrow]

male name of a chicken

[golden latch]

I know what caused it

[dire burrow]

for anyone asking what bluedragon typed.

[spice hearth]

an omnipotent being, sent us from a higher life form in our darkest hour

[trim crater]

Anways gn, goblins.
have a good one!
See ya tomorrow

[spice hearth]

dont recall america ever winning a world cup?

1966

never forget

[brazen drift]

https://tenor.com/view/rooster-gif-6861848867776536603

[golden latch]

I was explaining how beef is the actual name of the animal normally called cow

[late bane]

Lol deef

[wet storm]

Did you know bacon comes from pork

It's important

[vocal crystal]

who cares about a world cup when we have the industrial war machine. cant lose if we supply both sides lol

[dire burrow]

what

[wet storm]

Crazy I know

[golden latch]

Can i make it out of any type of pig?

[wet storm]

And shocker

Chicken comes form chicken

[spice hearth]

i have no comprehension of this message as i have never studied history

i just know england are always the good guys

[wet storm]

Why doesn't chicken have a name for it

Chork

POULTRY

[wary saffron]

lmao

[late bane]

Birb

[wet storm]

It does I forgot

[vocal crystal]

stares in colonalism

[spice hearth]

ay

theyd be years behind if we didnt help them

it took some sacrifice on their behalf

but look where we are now

[vocal crystal]

frankly probably shouldn't have stopped helping and never shoulda left some of those places cause now look how they are

[spice hearth]

someone had to say it

[indigo wadi]

Love this weird ego trip

[spice hearth]

but no

the pc police would be all over it

[indigo wadi]

But maybe let's step away from world politics

[spice hearth]

this isnt politics

[vocal crystal]

tis mere philosophical banter

[spice hearth]

were delving into a country with a culture as rich as kerrygold butter

[wet storm]

It's history memes

[indigo wadi]

Oh it's very close, so yes, let's veer away

[wet storm]

It's only politics if you're stuck in the early 80s

If that's the case uh

Wait 50 years?

:p

It's polandball level memes take it easy

[wet storm]

Can't fault a country from wanting it to always be day

[split tulip]

So it's the stuff before the old version of "we didn't start the fire"

[vocal crystal]

we only stacked the tires and covered them in kerosene

dont do anything too crazy now

[spice hearth]

https://tenor.com/view/england-flag-waving-flag-windy-gif-17795120

[split tulip]

[wet storm]

Pay no heed to the bonfire behind the curtain

[tight bramble]

Im just popping in while at work to say that I have an overwhelming sense of foreboding as of today's stream. I hope thor is ok. I've done what I can to show my support, and I will continue to do so, so I really hope he sees that he has friends. Idk.....I've seen too much in the service, when the strongest men I've ever met stopped being strong. Always keep fighting. Don't be afraid to reach for a shoulder to lean on.

[indigo wadi]

He'll be okay. He may need a day or two to process, but he'll be okay

[winged knoll]

I think he’ll be okay but man keep repeating himself is tiring

[hazy storm]

I think he'll be ok but he will need us when he does his birthday stream. He publicly announced it on the presence of trolls and i would be surprised if they aren't planning something major to ruin it

[wet storm]

Did something happen today?

[vocal crystal]

probably normal bad actors and antagonizing

[wind raven]

his adrenaline and cortisol must be through the roof

[wet storm]

I saw that Heimdall was going NUTS

[hazy storm]

Almost 2000 chat bans today

[wind raven]

The mob has a new criticism every day

its being fueled by an industrial complex of slop youtubers farming clips day and night

[ivory schooner]

there was a new video, 500k views in 8 hours, easiest "dont recommend channel" of my life

[wind raven]

if anyone deserves shame its ironically the slop tubers

[late bane]

It's self sustaining too as the slop/react streamers farm each other off it too.

Oh someone made a video now I can make a video using that streamers content and react

[wind raven]

So true , i literally saw a video of a big streamer reacting to a big youtuber reacting to someone reacting to Thor with over a million views

[vocal crystal]

i have yet to go a day with seeing some form of code review/life review, etc

*without i mean

[wind raven]

that literally human centipede sloptube

the code review is just nit picking

as a developer i can say it definitely nit picky especially considering the overall popularity of the game

who cares if he had a useless comment

[vocal crystal]

its just a witch hunt

[wind raven]

IMHO its the worst kind of developers who get hung up on arbitrary coding standards rather than being able to see the value the product is driving

[spiral bane]

I think they just find it strange it’s taken so long to finish the game

[wind raven]

people have the same criticism of the game of thrones guy

who cares

high expectations makes delivering hard

[late bane]

I bet 95 percent of the comments don't actually care at all about the game. They are just doing it for trolling. Nobody was doing this before the drama.

[wind raven]

thats why we will never get half-life 3

just let people live their lives and be imperfect humans

[muted robin]

from what i gather they're two separate critiques, unless ppl are unironically arguing that thor putting too many comments or using == instead of = is why the game has taken 9 years to make

[opaque raven]

Is this about Hearthbound?

I cant find the context, my discord mobile doesn't want to scroll up anymore

[kindred sedge]

You lost the game

[opaque raven]

Some yes, and they have normal worries and questions about the development, as it is now it becomes very obvious very fast who is actually interested and who just wants to add more drama

[exotic forge]

I mean yeah they definitely deserve most of the blame. They're the ones constantly inciting people to come in and troll

[exotic forge]

I think they're really just grasping at any straws to find reason to criticize and harass Thor at this point

[hazy storm]

And those slop tubers would be the first ones to cry foul of anyone tried doing it to them

[spiral bane]

I think those YouTubers just think his ego is bigger than his skills. I have no idea though and don’t really care

[wind raven]

the wow drama was exhausting

this is so much worse though

[opaque raven]

Well, it's still happening

[wind raven]

just glad i found the discord

[winged knoll]

[wind raven]

was losing my mind on youtube

[winged knoll]

XD

[exotic forge]

I think that's definitely one of the mindsets they have and unfortunately any good faith discussion to resolve this is out of the window.....at least for the meantime

[winged knoll]

Tbh i think everyone should also somehow try not to get pissed when people attacking Thor online

It’s not good for your mental

Just block, unrecommend and move on

[wind raven]

again who cares, let people live their lives. no one is perfect

[exotic forge]

It's a bit tough when you see the constant crossing of the line people say

[wind raven]

have you seen the comment section?

every single video is the same

[winged knoll]

I saw them, but you can’t change the mass perspective

[hazy storm]

Hard to do when someone you respect is being bullied for the worst reasons

[jolly sky]

I never go into the Youtube comment section, It's just rage farm bait and a cesspit

Even on videos where seeing rage bait is rare, like for example on Tested videos

[wind raven]

i just miss before 2025

[exotic forge]

If you go into a forum and see lots of sexist and racist comments. Can you just tell people to ignore them and let them be?

You can't ignore that stuff

[opaque raven]

Roblox's global chat is the last bastion of drama free media

[wind raven]

yeah it does pretty much ruin the comments section as a platform

[jolly sky]

You report it and move on, you're not gonna change their minds from text alone

"You cannot reason someone out of a place they didn't reason themselves into"

[indigo wadi]

I'm just numb to it

[winged knoll]

I understand your perspective, but getting worked off over every single attempt to bait and troll is not good for your mental

[river cargo]

i think charlie and mutahar deserve the most blame tbh

[opaque raven]

On the other hand I hate the idea of aggressive people feeling too comfortable to say whatever they want

[river cargo]

you can't slop sloptubers from farming

but they should've known better than to blast thor

[exotic forge]

Oh yeah you can't change the masses but you got a report and moderate it. You can't just ignore it

[river cargo]

especially when they take their disagreements out of dms and into the public

[jolly sky]

True, which is why you report it and move on. Engaging isn't going to help, so you have to go with the only other option

[winged knoll]

I mean “emotionally distach”

[indigo wadi]

You can ignore it by not going to the platform

[exotic forge]

They definitely deserve blame and I'm quite disappointed at them. I suppose I should've expected from channels that constantly talk about Internet drama

[indigo wadi]

Everyone that's made drama on this deserves blame.

[winter sierra]

I think charlies old videos are better. I dont like his internet drama vids, i think he should have stayed out of that. It doesn’t fit his style of content

[exotic forge]

It's happening on the pirate Software stream, discord and subreddit.

[spiral bane]

@river cargo didn’t Thor leak Charlie’s dm though

[wind raven]

????

[distant rapids]

Welll charlie was very... inciting. Mutahar wasn't nearly as bad, but charlie, oh man he went full hypocrite on that video

[indigo wadi]

Charlie was two-faced, Thor had to to protect himself

[winter sierra]

^

[spiral bane]

Ahh gotcha

[winter sierra]

charlie went full redditor, something he swore against

Tbh he does it a lot (nowadays)

[exotic forge]

Eh just because they didn't directly say on camera to go bully and harass Thor doesn't mean they aren't complicit

[warm trench]

At some point the only way to moderate this is to platform wide make it a policy not to allow such content, regardless of First Amendment rights... No one will stand down/stop the behavior, no will like the heavy arm of a platform preventing content - but it's the only way. This of course will not happen and quite frankly - I seriously have been loosing and will loose all faith in humanity.

[jolly sky]

Not directly no, but Coding Jesus literally called Thor a fraud in his thumbnail, which emboldened his fans to come and say the same, and that has happened almost ad infinitum with plenty of other content creators

[indigo wadi]

FA does not apply to discord

[brazen drift]

friendly reminder that your first amendment rights only protect you against the government, not from citizens

[winter sierra]

^

[warm trench]

I know, but the peanut gallery in my head agrues with me @indigo wadi

[hazy storm]

I can't change the minds of commenters and trolls but i can and do talk to my daughter about internet drama between her favorite creators.

I always tell her to not believe the first source she says and to be aware of which channels are known for drama baiting. Fortunately she has a good head on her shoulders and i have gotten her comfortable with taking to me about that stuff. Especially because i put it in the context of cyber bullying -- which it is and which she hates

[late bane]

The next adpocalypse will be because of React/Slop tubers

[muted robin]

that's not accurate, it's better to say that having free speech doesn't protect you from TOS

[winter sierra]

First amendment is not say whatever you want about ANYTHING its about the government

[indigo wadi]

Well shut it down

Stop.

No need to post drama videos

[winged knoll]

[jolly sky]

Except it was done in complete bad faith from the get go.

[exotic forge]

Coding Jesus said more things than a simple 'code review'. Come on now, no need to play dumb.

[indigo wadi]

Except CJ completely misunderstood the code

[muted robin]

if first amendment rights only applied to the government and not businesses/private citizens then by that right employers could fire people for being a religion they don't like or people could get discriminated against by coworkers/business people/etc and it would be legal. but it's not so

[hazy storm]

And instead of acknowledging it he doubled down and claimed he understood game maker after looking at it for 15 minutes

[silver vapor]

Sheesh

[jolly sky]

He didn't even attempt to understand why things were done the way they were, and didn't attempt to realise that he wasn't even looking at GM code, and thought he was looking at C++.

And he tried to implement his own experience in Finance programming onto Game Dev, and he would be shocked to see how code is made in multiple game dev studios/Solo developers

[exotic forge]

Yakety joined this server today fyi

[dire burrow]

They could, until workplace discrimination laws were enacted.

[untold seal]

Where is that tweet of the 20 year Microsoft software engineering dunking of CJ "code review" kekw

[winged knoll]

If the goal is to do a code reviews, CJ wouldn’t make multiple video on the matter

[winged knoll]

He makes exposé disguised as code reviews, aka slops

[brazen drift]

If you didn't buy heartbound you have no right to comment on how long the game is taking.

[late bane]

They have laws for that that it's not tied to the Bill of Rights/Constitution.

[winter sierra]

gone

[flat root]

I know to avoid politics, but I assume talking specifically about law details should be fine.

It's not the 1st amendment that prevents businesses from doing that, it's civil rights laws from the 60s and 70s that primarily do that as well as later civil rights laws.

[muted robin]

man i'm gonna get so much mileage out of that image

[muted robin]

which are based on the first amendment

among other things, but yeah, politics

[onyx gate]

Yeah Charlie has a lot of bad takes on a lot of people

[exotic forge]

Agreed. He made a whole video arguing and insulting Thor because he saw a piece of code where Thor used 0 and 1s as booleans instead of true and false

[flat root]

If the 1st amendment didn't exist, those laws could still be in place. The basis for those laws is more based on the 14th amendment.

[distant rapids]

If someone can't recognize the code as not being the language they SUPPOSEDLY have 20 years in experience in, well i put them firmly in the "has experience but learned nothing" category

[jolly sky]

There's a lot of content creators that don't even attempt to try and understand, and just go straight for the shit-talk. It's so disappointing on almost every conceivable level.

Understanding is Crucial for being a damn human

Understanding and trying to see the perspective of other people

[muted robin]

honestly as someone who's only tentatively dipped my toes into coding i feel like these guys dipping into drama kind of gives the "online coding community" a bad name. like as a newcomer i basically have to wonder "okay so if i do something that's cringe or that someone with a large enough platform thinks is Bad Code does this mean i'm going to get farmed for drama content too"

that's mainly what pisses me off about this whole situation. it's not really just that it's happening to thor (tho it's obviously overblown) but it's what this whole thing does to validate toxic behavior online as a whole

[flat root]

Also, just because one rule doesn't prevent a specific action doesn't mean there isn't other rules that do what is needed, or that the rule is somehow wrong.

There are rules on how to do En Passant in chess, and nothing in that section of rules strictly forbids me from punching my opponent in the face in response. It's other rules that forbid that, and it's nothing wrong with the first rule.

[winter sierra]

Is the coding community toxic?

I dont know ive never been in it

[brazen drift]

no, drama youtubers are toxic

[warm trench]

Honestly, there has been a growing concern that coding community in general (especially in the enterprise arena) is in fact getting more and more toxic.

[exotic forge]

Yeah what's happening is really just discouraging new people from getting into coding. You're witnessing someone getting harassed just because they didn't write the absolute perfect code in the exact style that a person on the Internet is expecting

[muted robin]

also it pisses me off that there are streamers/youtubers that have literally committed crimes or sexually assaulted people or incited terrorism that get less heat than thor has for. having an opinion on an initiative and being a little rude

[late bane]

Thor tries to get people with no knowledge to try to create games. People like Coding Jesus would gatekeep these same potential creators from doing so.

[distant rapids]

Also the idea that coding in general has to be done a certain way is laughable. Coding is a many-headed beast, with pros and cons to doing it one way vs another. Why is the enum so long? For modability. Why do "x" instead of "y"? Because the benefit of using y is not what I'm looking for, i want the benefits of x.

[warm trench]

Now throw in the billions of dollars applied to AI, corpo will have their pounds of flesh

[muted robin]

a la the clickbait "worst most hated most evil streamer who ruined his career eveeerrrrr!" thumbnails

[exotic forge]

We're supposed to encourage people to build things, not make whole videos nitpicking, attacking the character of someone showing their code online

[jolly sky]

The amount of stories I've seen of people having to let interns go because their reliance on AI without the knowledge of programming in the first place to back it up is concerning

[idle hill]

[exotic forge]

I see you joined today as well. Welcome to the server!

[brazen drift]

which is incredible because his career hasn't ended. he may have lost a bunch of subs but he still has a pretty massive community of GOOD people.

[vocal crystal]

is CJ an actual quant?

[distant rapids]

Amd honestly, thor doesnt really prioritize youtube. He's mainly a twitch streamer.

[hazy storm]

Yeah 2.5 million yt subs is still nothing to sneeze at

[brazen drift]

This isn't some hard accusation "dude got arrested for his crimes" career ending move. its Petty Drama

[warm trench]

As I said in stream, pointing out how undertale was "crap" code with the mega if/thens isn't really about sh*ting on the code, but instead commenting on how "experts" would see his code vs the concept what I believe Thor really means: It doesn't matter how beginner you code is, just do it and make the game - just make the game and enjoy doing it.

[exotic forge]

Exactly this. And guess who is being painted as the villain?

[bronze parcel]

I think you can do better than attack someone's character.

[winter sierra]

huh?

[vocal crystal]

isn't Tobyfox a musician by trade tho?

[exotic forge]

I don't get it either

[winter sierra]

I just think its a little odd

[dire burrow]

At the end of the day, if your code works and it doesn't kill the performance of your game, no one cares what it looks like.

[brazen drift]

That could literally apply to Literally Everyone Ever that goes by a title of authority. Like "King X" or "God of X"

[bronze parcel]

It's inconsequential. As in, who cares what names people choose for themselves? Just focus on the arguments, not the character.

[jolly sky]

5 years of Finance experience and then offering $350 Resume reviews is, questionable at the very least. And then trying to use his Finance experience in a Game Design "review" is just like, HUH?

[vocal crystal]

ad hominem

[brazen drift]

If someone calls themselves the "God of COD" Im already inclied to believe they're not the greatest of people.

unless its a fisherman

[bronze parcel]

It's ad hominem.

[muted robin]

also my understanding is that the code isn't just meant to be A Game but it's also tied to an ARG where people are looking at the code for metagame reasons and thus the code has more purposes than just making a game runnable and needs design features with more than one purpose in mind

[vocal crystal]

actually crazy

[bronze parcel]

I look more poorly against ad hominem than I do against people who choose silly names for themselves.

[winter sierra]

I mean thats fair but if you make your username sound arrogant i will assume you are an arrogant person

[muted robin]

that and i haven't heard thor say anything about the ARG being made in mind that only experienced coders should be able to access/understand the code

[vocal crystal]

better guarantee they get the job

[warm trench]

We can't talk religion, but something like this is so revolting to me on a personal level (Not when it's ethnic, that's understandable/fine) that I would never take the person seriously or with any credit.

[jolly sky]

Especially for a Solo Dev, where no one else who's going to be doing an actual, in-work code review

These Youtube rando's doing code reviews need to get a grip

[flat root]

An angry Poseidon later knocking on your door over your insult.

[tight bramble]

I AM THE GOD OF WATCHING HISTORY HIT! KNEEL IN THE DUST BEFORE ME!

[muted robin]

so with that in mind it makes sense that the code would be less efficient in terms of raw programming as a tradeoff for it being meant to be more accessible to people who are in it for the story/ARG and not as programmers

[earnest cove]

haaaa (big sigh) youtube keeps trying to feed me thor slander because i watched his channel....

[muted robin]

kdslflkjds yeah dude here's a hint, you don't need to worry about being banned for having a differnet opinion, you need to worry about being banned bc you're strawmanning

[brazen drift]

hey hey i immediately said "unless they're a fisherman" I'm absolved of posidons rage

not that i even live near the ocean in the first place anymore

[bronze parcel]

Attacking someone's character, even if it's mild, as a way of suggesting their arguments are flawed is still ad hominem and it's the line where a debate crosses into personal insult.

[muted robin]

if you come to this server for more reasons than to troll, incite arguments, or repeat talking points from youtube, you'll find that there's actually people of all stripes and opinions here who care or don't care about thor as a person to varying degrees

[flat root]

~~Is Posiedon a fisherman? 🤔 Either he fishes in the sea, which is just hunting, or he gets out of the sea to fish which is like leaving your house to order takeout that's made in your house anyway ~~

[vocal crystal]

technically it is also the lowest form of argument

[muted robin]

"Thor good, CJ bad."

[warm trench]

That seems so? I need to check - even better. His code worked obviously! Now, I would be laughed out of my job doing that stuff.. but it worked!!!

[bronze parcel]

Precisely

[distant rapids]

If they attack thor's character and then say "you can't attack my character!" They're just bullies who pull the victim card when they get consequences.

[vocal crystal]

pretty badass haha

[muted robin]

if that's the best argument you can muster out of the multiple perspectives and ppl who have participated, you're strawmanning

or you just can't read

[winter sierra]

More of a first impression if i know nothing about them

[wind raven]

its actually pretty funny to watch him try to gate keep someone with a ton of relevant experience and who actually has a game created people like

[earnest cove]

He was primarily a musician, but he actually studied for engineering.

[vocal crystal]

which field?

[earnest cove]

I don't know by now if his programming got better or he's still primarily musician. I do think his main talent is music.

[wind raven]

Yes he clearly kicked off this whole thing needlessly

[exotic forge]

Hey, I know you just joined today but so far all your takes seems to defend coding Jesus. Now you're being a reductionist against any critique towards Coding Jesus

[jolly sky]

No, not even that really. Actions speak for themselves, and the continuing actions are proving who is acting in bad faith,

CJ may be doing good actions in the Finance area of programming, but stepping into the Game Design field to capitalise on the drama while having no experience with the code he's even reviewing, is bad.

Like every aspect of life, its multi-faceted and layered.

[earnest cove]

He later studied environmental science at Northeastern University and graduated in 2014.

oh some very interesting background history about him

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toby_Fox

Fox has stated that as a child, he took music lessons, including piano and trumpet; when he reached middle school, he decided to start playing piano again, performing gaming soundtracks by ear

he already had natural music talent

[wind raven]

if CJ was the only person working on a passion project he would probably have inadequate test coverage

thats an easy slam dunk you can do on anyone

its really not that hard to make code criticisms out of context or even in context

a lot of code that runs youtube is probably less than perfect

[flat root]

Reminds as well about Touhou, which has similar notes of Toby Fox's journey into game development.
The developer, ZUN, was already a programmer, but also a musician and wanted an avenue for his type of music, and decided on developing his own sequence of games called Touhou.

Amusingly, ZUN was hilariously bad with art at first. Like, some of the images of the characters, while all having creative and gorgeous character design, are generally quite awful with bad anatomy as if some limbs were broken, faces that looked goofy, and just generally not all too good. Nowadays though, ZUN's art is quite pleasing and works well.

[warm trench]

I'll throw a unpopular opinion - I think tests are really not a good thing to do/

[vocal crystal]

depending on what it pertains to

[bronze parcel]

Thor doesn't have a lot of code to criticize, not much actually verifiable code outside of what he shows off in stream. He doesn't have any significant background of open source contributions as far as I'm aware. That said, nobody is perfect and even if Thor is just a "mediocre" coder, his background and experience is enough to land him a 6 figure job practically anywhere he wants.

[wind raven]

if you are working as a quant programmer they are pretty important

[exotic forge]

I think your true colors are showing

[warm trench]

But if it costs thousands of dollars everytime you compile, something has to be done

[earnest cove]

I really hate the whole "My critique is valid he should listen to me"

[muted robin]

you're saying that as if thor is personally reading this and hates you personally and not that you're coming into a discord server accusing people of thinking "CJ bad thor good"

[brazen drift]

it's not criticism when someone comes in and says "mana" or calls him a "roach" or first-time-chats "lol bro ur code is bad lmaoooooo"

[earnest cove]

Only people who're close to him like his friends and family should do the critiquing not rando strangers online

[indigo wadi]

He can when it's actual criticism

[wind raven]

tests are so so so important

[muted robin]

you're getting pushback bc you're being a jerk and mischaracterizing people in a chat that you clearly haven't bothered to explore in a non-confrontational/judgemental way. you so obviously came here to start beef and accuse people of being suck ups to thor

[wind raven]

unit tests, integration tests

[warm trench]

That's fine.

[flat root]

He has apologized for things already in the past. But if he genuinely doesn't believe he is doing something wrong when others claim it, why should the assumption be that Thor is wrong?

[jolly sky]

Except that isn't the case. If the criticism is coming from good faith and actually makes sense, he's more than happy to listen and take it into account. If its coming from bad faith or you're copy-pasting Reddit/Youtube opinions then of course you're going to get yeeted.

[brazen drift]

Criticism would be "Hey I think hes right on some points about your code, have you ever thought about X take"

[wind raven]

guys please relax

[late bane]

I've seen him take criticism a bunch of times, the trick is not being an absolute ass about it

[indigo wadi]

Josh strife Hayes, perfect example of criticism

[earnest cove]

he did it the right way

[hazy storm]

You're deliberately ignoring all the trollish things people are doing and defending someone who took potshots at him in bad faith.

I have to question whether you're here for an actual discussion or just another drama hog

[exotic forge]

I didn't know harassment, bait, death threats and concern trolling now counts as valid criticism

[earnest cove]

according to the internet, they always have been, which is why i now resent the whole "i'm just critiquing" angle

[brazen drift]

Also all the "raid" messages that were just a bunch of spammy emotes...

[jolly sky]

exactly

And literally people today, random people in chat giving advice and criticising some decisions in Block Game came at it the right way, and Thor made changes.

It's really not hard to criticise while not being an ass.

[flat root]

As well, criticism only makes sense if it actually works towards achieving the intended goals. Since the code is being built not just for a game but for an ARG, criticizing it only on the basis of the code misses half the point.

[distant rapids]

Okay so, my critisicm for you: you come in here with opinions that you state as facts, that's unacceptable behavior and invalid. If i go into your twitch i should be allowed to shittalk you as much as possible. If you disagre with me you are simply doubling down. Now where's your apology to me? I'm waiting. You better take my criticism.

[flat root]

No one will implement your ideas if it completely misses the point.

[wind raven]

Thor just needs a mental health break guys

[indigo wadi]

Criticism also has to make sense

[earnest cove]

Also, drop the attitude that "He should listen to me."

[wind raven]

he doesn't need dog pilling now

[indigo wadi]

No one isn't dog piling Thor

Those don't count

[flat root]

Double negative 💢

[brazen drift]

Criticism is supposed to be Constructive; you need a valid reason and you need to be able to explain that reason. Whats happening rn is just bullying at its finest

[indigo wadi]

He's not a 20 year game dev...

[wind raven]

he was never a dev

[late bane]

I feel a big issue in general now is how people talk to each other, feels like the going mood is i know what's best and your an idiot if you don't agree with my take

[indigo wadi]

God damn mobile

[wind raven]

never claimed to be a dev

[earnest cove]

Josh also doesn't go like "he needs to listen to me, I am his customer I know everything" in terms of attitude

[jolly sky]

Dude was bringing arguments based on things he learned from Reddit or Youtube and not Thors LinkedIn

[bronze parcel]

His dev experience is more recent, but he does/should seemingly have significant industry experience.

[untold seal]

Once again normies ruin everything. They think when someone says they have been interested industry for 20 years they automatically assume they mean developer.

Peak comedy

[dire burrow]

ohp

BrBoa was a ban evader

[late bane]

I've been a professional driver for 12 years

so you build cars

[brazen drift]

oh?

[dire burrow]

They came back and called me a slur

[jolly sky]

OH. Well.

[brazen drift]

LMAO

[jolly sky]

LMAO

Nice shot

[distant rapids]

LOL

[wispy plover]

Jeez

[earnest cove]

aaaah repeat offenders

[brazen drift]

I mean im so sorry but that's incredible

[jolly sky]

https://tenor.com/view/well-there-it-is-jeff-goldblum-gif-14058551

[late bane]

I had already blocked him. He seemed sus.

[earnest cove]

All these people man, coming in insisting their """"""critique"""""" is the holy grail

[winged knoll]

To be fair, some of us are tired of repeating ourselves

[indigo wadi]

Oh snap

[muted robin]

brand new user only joined today
was rude to other users even in earlier conversations today
started argument by citing/bringing up a notable YT drama video
accuses everyone of believing "CJ bad thor good" the second they get pushback
starts concern trolling the definition of strawmanning upon being called out for it
starts bringing up the exact meme replica repeats of "can't take criticism"
thinks thor personally is arguing with him and going to ban him

Lads I think we've got another case of

[dire burrow]

I instantly was sus of them as soon as they seemingly joined on a new account and was already involved in the conversation.

[late bane]

Im referring more to how people give criticism

[jolly sky]

Good eyes, Detective Wolp

[brazen drift]

People really have nothing better to do huh.

[earnest cove]

As in that sense of self importance?

[frozen sonnet]

Wolp on the case

[winged knoll]

🥖

[brazen drift]

Go learn game dev if you have time to make an alt on the place you got banned from

[frozen sonnet]

Wolp protect

[winged knoll]

Take some bread

[bronze parcel]

I might not agree with Thor on the recent controversy, but I have no illusions about my privilege in this server lol. A lot of people seem to think they're entitled to air their unfiltered criticisms.

[late bane]

That and they speak rudely to everyone because its how they talk to their buddies so its ok

[hazy storm]

Thank your for your service

[late bane]

Treat everyone you meet like its your grandma at first

[dire burrow]

Its really hard to take what anyone is saying seriously when they will ban evade to harass over and over.

[muted robin]

I think another issue about criticism from drama farmers is that actual critique comes from a place of good faith and lack of bias. I can't trust most content creators to give valid critique bc a lot of them have conflicts of interest re: dumping on Thor to conform with public opinion would get them a lot of clicks and money

[earnest cove]

Yeah that. I'm sick of that. the world revolving about how they think and speak.