streamchat

[brazen drift]

but again gotta wait until moms drs apointment

[subtle gate]

https://tenor.com/view/ww2-warthunder-japan-planes-gif-7304108

fun times

[flat moat]

Where's that "everyone I dislike is Piratesoftware" image? Finally got called an alt account

Got it

[indigo wadi]

My God.

The last 2 days, I've done more stuff than I have over the last 5 years

I feel wiped

[tight bramble]

I saw that lol just keep wiping

[indigo wadi]

Lol

Gdi, stupid mobile

[void moss]

Just joined the server to be here in support of Thor. Hope the dude's doing okay... things are seriously nasty out there.

Sorry if people are trying to think about literally anything else right now 😅

[steady pewter]

Did the previous stream get deleted or something?

[indigo wadi]

Thors doing good, all things considered

[indigo wadi]

Yeah, stream ended early due to Thor being up for 24 hours and didn't want weird shenanigans happening

[steady pewter]

ah that sucks to hear. I tend to rewatch the streams cause I usually can't catch all of the stream. I tend to try to look out for games he gets sponsored by. It's how I found out about pacific drive & other games I never knew existed

[indigo wadi]

There were no sponsored games yesterday.

He played dune and division 2. Not sure about any others.

@jolly sky can confirm

[strange ember]

Share with the class?
This has to be good

[kindred axle]

check pinned messages

[flat moat]

Smash player thought my profile pic on twitter was an alternate version of the Pirate software studio logo due to it having the same colour scheme.

It's the mask of Darth Revan from KOTOR

[strange ember]

https://tenor.com/view/scarecrow-stupid-people-without-brains-do-an-awful-lot-of-talking-truth-gif-8715062

[flat moat]

Imagine if Thor had an Alt account purely dedicated to Motorsport or F1, as if it's some dark secret he actually likes aerodynamically efficient cars racing in circles

[opal star]

truly this

[kindred axle]

Is Thor streaming today btw or is he not yet back to streaming on Wednesdays?

[gentle mortar]

Wednesdays and Thursdays are always off

[kindred axle]

He mentioned that might change tho with him no longer working with Offbrand

just not sure if that applies to this week already or not

[gentle mortar]

not sure myself, he will annouce that eventually

[kindred axle]

I could use the distraction, would be nice

[flat moat]

No, he's resting a bit more today. Said on stream yesterday he'd rest and finish working on some dialogue iirc

[opal star]

could check out if Khronos is streaming later

[kindred axle]

Oh okay, ty!

[flat moat]

Thor did say he was at a Denny's 3 hours ago tho

[opal star]

same level of comfy distraction

plus potential shitting on ppl requesting unban

[kindred axle]

oh yeah Unban Bingo!! xD

[opal star]

yea the Bingo is definitely a fun addition

[indigo wadi]

He's going back to Wednesday streaming

[opal star]

all of us have become old grandpa and grandma checking off the bingo card

[indigo wadi]

I haven't

[opal star]

could try watching Khronos stream later and see if he does unban request

[gentle mortar]

oh that's nice, I probably overheard it

[indigo wadi]

Yeah, since he's not doing Offbrand now, Wednesday is back on the menu

[flat moat]

https://tenor.com/view/meats-back-on-the-menu-lord-of-the-rings-orcs-looks-like-meats-back-on-the-menu-boys-meat-gif-15971090

[opal star]

another 12 hrs of Thor, a surprise but a welcome one

[indigo wadi]

Honestly the image in my head when I typed it

[gentle mortar]

Hell yea, very positive for us

[kindred axle]

more bread for the mods (don't tell Thor)

[indigo wadi]

Whose Thor fighting at Dennys?

[flat moat]

Hunger, the insatiable

[kindred axle]

some guy called Denny..?

[opal star]

possibly wrestling with the waffles

[swift star]

I thought it was Thursdays he was choosing off... for some reason. Come on brain.

[opal star]

Thursday are always off coz its Thor's day

[kindred axle]

https://tenor.com/view/rey-mysterio-619-chris-jericho-wwe-the-bash-gif-24849136

[swift star]

Thank you.

[opal star]

he says its an off day but proceeds to continue working

[indigo wadi]

Off day of streaming

He works 6 days a week

7*

[opal star]

u mean 7

[indigo wadi]

19/7

[opal star]

19/7 7 days a week

every day one of the 7 ferrets in the trench coat takes over

[kindred axle]

huh?

wdym?

[distant rapids]

Use msg instead. Same effect as salt. Though, I'm not sure if msg is cleared for heart patients...

[kindred axle]

oh... more "drama" I already regret I asked

xD

[indigo wadi]

Oh wow, you're so funny

[distant rapids]

Oh yeah the c++ hack who couldnt tell the difference between c++ and gamemaker code. Ugh

[flat moat]

He can code. Just because he can't code to a Quant Dev's standards doesn't mean he can't code at all

[strange owl]

remember, don't feed the trolls. they get all bloated and might need to seek a vet.

[indigo wadi]

Nah, you ain't funny at all. Go find a hobby

[distant rapids]

Oh you're so edgyyyyy

[gentle mortar]

he couldn't, GML language doesnt have boolean, this is not C++, it's modified C, taylored to GameMaker engine, but you would know, if you ever used the engine

[golden latch]

Oh he loves games😁

[kindred axle]

just F off... seriously. I'm so tired of people like you

[indigo wadi]

Go do something worthwhile instead of shit slinging

[gentle mortar]

tell me about it

[golden latch]

#mod-ticket

[indigo wadi]

I'm nearly passing out

[strange owl]

leave it to the mods, no point engaging

[distant rapids]

This troll Idiot would probably get java and c confused

[gentle mortar]

<@&362005405901127710>

[golden latch]

#mod-ticket its better then just pinging all mods including the off shift ones

[flat moat]

What games do you play? Other than what you are doing now

[distant rapids]

Thank you mods!

[indigo wadi]

The banned game lol

[kindred axle]

thanks!

[rotund trout]

no need for ticket now, am here, but yes, in the future, this would be a thing for tickets ^^

thanks for alerting!

[indigo wadi]

DWAGON

[gentle mortar]

woops, already did that

closed it

[indigo wadi]

I just don't get the point of coming into a server just to shit sling

[rotund trout]

yeah that's beyond me

they should all play some more Solitaire, that would calm their souls

(if they have one)

[kindred axle]

probably just to cause me psychic damage.. apparently I'm not as resistent to that as I'd like to be lol

[flat moat]

Clearly a "Witness me" moment followed by them faceplanting

[strange owl]

They probably wanted a screenshot of being banned to show all their cool "friends".

Then make up a story about being silenced

[kindred axle]

people do that!?

[kindred axle]

ah with that second part it makes a bit more sense I guess xD

[distant rapids]

Misery likes company... so they do everything in their power to try and make everyone else miserable. Disgustang

[flat moat]

Yep, people do stupid things to impress others. Been like that since the paleo period

[indigo wadi]

Victim carding is a thing

[wispy plover]

I'll never understand it. Even at my worst or my maddest, I have never thought "I'm gonna go into their community and act like an idiot! That'll show em!"

[gentle mortar]

happened all the time when there was drama

[golden latch]

Good thing we keep evidence for each event.

[rotund trout]

yeah we also have a lot of people who delete their own comments in youtube chat, just to show how much we delete

[distant rapids]

It's a fool's errand to try to understand fools. Anyways, i literally waited until midnight to play wordle so off i go, to cater to an addiction

[lapis tartan]

Eh, there's more videos of CJ pop'n up, yaking with another Thor hate streamer about code to refresh the BS. The hate is relevant again, I guess. Doesn't make it right or true as always, but they're trying to drown us in smug irrelevancy.

[gentle mortar]

jesus, that's foul

[kindred axle]

right.. I remember that

cute pfp btw 😄

[indigo wadi]

Ugh

[kindred axle]

everyone gotta jump in on it and get their slice of the pie..

tiring

[strange owl]

It's like I've said before. People are pissed about other aspects about their life and the world that they cannot change, so they go for something closer that they think they can. It's just typical transference.

[wet storm]

If serious, because they find it funny.

At "worst" to go "lol duuude I was banned from the Pirate Software discord", and at "best" to go "lol duuude the Pirate Software guy responded before banning me"

That's how trolls have been since the last 30 years the internet's been a space

[golden latch]

Attention is key yeah

Either from outsiders friends or those in authority.

[indigo wadi]

I'd like to go back to pre-internet days

[flat moat]

the 1960s were not a great time

[lapis tartan]

It's the same guy who took Thor's nepo baby clip out of context that Notch used. Same guy I warned at the start to not become another hate Tuber. It draws in the wrong crowd. Dude showed off his dog, and someone in his stream chat said "i don't need this dog bro, I just want pirate miserable." Good luck with that crowd! Hope they don't eat you alive later.

[wet storm]

I like the internet

[indigo wadi]

I meant 1990s

[strange owl]

Pre internet it was just physical instead.

[wet storm]

It has problems but I can buy things online

[indigo wadi]

Early 1990s was pre-public internet

[wet storm]

Thank god calling people on the phone is a dead method of communication

[strange owl]

Bullying, cliques etc

[green sail]

does thor have a stream schedule posted anywhere?

[wet storm]

Throwing rocks at someone's house so they'd yell at you

[kindred axle]

I'd like to be back in my childhood sometimes and just be concerned about how to beat the next gym in Pokémon lol

[indigo wadi]

Always been a thing

[wet storm]

You'd need to go to pre-life earth

[indigo wadi]

Friday to Wednesday

[green sail]

inclusive?

[strange owl]

Yeah, but pre internet it was the main output for things like this

[wet storm]

Even then some jerk meteor would just hit the planet for shits and giggles

[indigo wadi]

Yes, unless he states otherwise

[green sail]

alright thanks

[green sail]

thats so fair lol i remember my pre-internet days grinding X/Y. love that game even today

[strange owl]

What has changed majorly with the internet is the scale. Now it can be thousands of people, on both ends.

[green sail]

idk why i became mr krabs with that lol

[indigo wadi]

I miss my childhood, being 6 years old. Everything was new. Christmas felt like Christmas. Life felt full. I wasn't cynical/jaded

[green sail]

ig thats what i get for joining the pirate software discord

[wet storm]

I grew up in absolute poverty. My childhood years can stay there

Ok maybe not absolute poverty

[green sail]

my childhood had me in the first half. then things started getting really, really ugly

[wet storm]

Council housing and food banks were a thing

[golden latch]

Twitch has a schedule tab in the streamer profile that should be good for general times

[lapis tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/marvel-cursed-with-knowledge-thanos-gif-14242316

[strange owl]

Thor is also very good about posting about when he is or isn't streaming. Outside of his scheduled days off.

[green sail]

thank you that is very useful

might end up using that myself if i can 👀

[wet storm]

You are who you choose to be. You could be not so jaded or not so cynical if it bothers you. But I'm not your therapist

[lament sun]

Of all the creators i follow, PS is the only he follow regiously tbh

[indigo wadi]

Yeah I grew up poor. Single mom working full time, living in a townhouse for many years.

Legitimately, I miss waking up in the mornings and going to school. Something about that really makes me miss it.

It was like a different atmosphere. Or maybe the Era of the time just felt different

[lapis tartan]

The best cure for knowing too much is knowing more. Reality has LOTs going on to learn about and explore ideas about. When that's not enough, make up your own stories and realities.

[golden latch]

Yeah its surprising

[wet storm]

True

[high ember]

damn i hate trying to search for a PS short to show my friend and then like 90% of the top results are all slop drama farming content, the internet is awful

[indigo wadi]

I just miss a time where things felt, I dunno, not present day.

[kindred axle]

for me it's just less overall noise I suppose that's now different compared to childhood days?

[wet storm]

There's lots of cool, fun stuff you can pick up on

[kindred axle]

too much in my head and in the world going on

[strange owl]

I'd settle for pre-covid times at this point

[wet storm]

Faaaaaaxxxxx

[green sail]

where trivial things stayed trivial?

[indigo wadi]

That might be it

[wet storm]

No printer, just faxxx

[indigo wadi]

Hell, seasons felt different too

[lament sun]

Go back to the '90s, nobody misses that shit

[proud lily]

Getting older was a mistake.

[strange owl]

90s printers .... eeeeeew

[indigo wadi]

Hi!

[green sail]

yep i totally get this. i miss those days

unfortunately it is summer and i am becoming a liquid

[lapis tartan]

The more you learn the more you understand, the more game pieces for stories and realities you can make up. Knowing the rules well, helps you bend and even break them in unique and fun ways. Like a kaiju movie set in war torn japan. ❤️

[wet storm]

Pre-covid hit it in the head

No asthma, decent enough economy, people weren't still recovering from becoming forced shut ins

[lament sun]

I hope you have a tranquil "state of matter" transition and that your melting point is livable and not too high

[wet storm]

Several hundred thousand grandmas were still alive

I miss pre-covid

[lament sun]

Is this a cookie-clicker reference

[indigo wadi]

We're so quick to grow up that when we do, we never took the chance to enjoy being a kid

[wet storm]

No this is a real life phenomenon

[lapis tartan]

Back when I had full lung capacity an vascular health. Before tinnitus in my left ear and sudden allergies to peanuts and eggs...

[lament sun]

People being alive? No way ....

[indigo wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-star-no-this-is-patrick-spongebob-angry-mad-gif-9319809

[green sail]

true, juuuust at that borderline is fine

[wet storm]

Older, vulnerable people that were stolen by covid

[lapis tartan]

I used to work on a receiving dock, made friends with a bread vendor. Cool old dude... Covid took him when it first came out.

[fringe fractal]

wait what happened to yesterday’s vod?

[lapis tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/chocolate-matilda-sorry-i-already-ate-it-gif-16766253

[kindred axle]

https://tenor.com/view/sqds-gif-26295658

[fringe fractal]

was travelling all day yesterday and was gonna watch it today but couldn’t find it. What happened during it?

[gloomy pelican]

Ok, just to end this, I did a bit of digging and I was really confused. Don't care about Coding Jesus, because he was clearly rushing to conclusions. I don't think he assumed it was C/C++ because in these you use "&&" and "||" as logical operators instead of "and" and "or"(which you can see in Thors code). If CJ assumed it was C\C++ that would be a really dumb look him.

Apparently in GML the Boolean type did not exist up until officially launched in 2017(in 2016 it was in beta, so you don't want to use untested code), this might correlate with when Thor started to work on Heartbound, and guess what, Heartbound released in 2018 the same year when people started to confidently use Boolean type. There are developers that still stick with this type of writing because of skepticism(seen it countless times), as of why he did use "true" and "false" in a function call is probably because the code is newer, and if it ain't broke then don't fix it. I don't believe this is a mistake, it's just legacy code.

But yea, that guy didn't come for friendly conversations, good riddance.

[kindred axle]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cooking-let-me-cook-cat-let-me-cook-let-him-cook-gif-14801096915973119105

cooked him!

Cooked Jesus is now his new name ;P

[gentle mortar]

thank you for the info, yea I agree, if booleans didn't exist back than and it doesnt impact the code as is, why change that, if it already works this way. Also a side note, lot of developers when they have a bigger project (1-2 year project let's say), you dont want to update your engine in fear of breaking something and have to rewrite it, or features, that your game doesn't need in the moment, maybe in another project

[strange ember]

OMG! Cute PFP

ah, it did not scroll down as far as I told it to... wondered why my message didn't show up

[gloomy pelican]

that's why we use tests of a minimum of 80% code coverage in case we update the code, but let's be real there are barely any projects out there that do this... I've done it, left for vacation, got back, code coverage was down to 50% because people started to comment my tests because they had to ship fast... I understand

that's why I discredit anything that does not take in consideration full context and timelines, just because they say "it doesn't matter"

[blissful imp]

nothing crazy, but losers did take clips from it. So like i said nothing crazy... typical stuff.

[modest mango]

Well, something crazy. Specifically, the excuses for more harassment.

[prime anchor]

Even if he got it wrong who cares? Like you never made a mistake before? Gotta make a video crying about how the code isn't formatted how you want it too even if it works just fine. Jackasses grasping at straws

[modest mango]

I'm just gonna enjoy some popcorn while I wait for the folks to eat Notch's face for not signing the petition for the same reasons Thor spoke against it. ||But I know they won't, because he said mean things about Thor and therefore that means he's "good" to the dummies.||

[gentle mortar]

real, you opened my memory of a company presentaion I have been. They talked about their infrastucture and their services, that they have to manage, one thing they talked about is how tests are important, but the problem is that the dont do them because it costs a lot of time and money

[strange ember]

Why not just quit letting this drama live rent free in your head instead?
Who cares what Notch said about it?
If they come in here and start trouble, the mods will whack them.
Why not enjoy the day and talk about something other than drama?

[gloomy pelican]

and that's why you have QA, because it's cheaper than consuming development time(writing tests) and also QA can get creative with more scenarios for end-to-end testing that devs didn't even imagine possible

[strange owl]

I make my drama pay rent

[fringe fractal]

Doesn’t Notch basically shit on everything that moves?

[modest mango]

Oof, friendly fire, man. You gonna talk about yourself like that? #streamchat message xD

Fix yourself because you cast shame on me, my dude.

[strange ember]

I've been trying to defuse or deflect drama this whole time

[gentle mortar]

that makes a lot of sense yea

[strange ember]

Wouldn't know, don't care. He's not making anything I care about so he's just "random person on the internet that made a thing once"

[indigo wadi]

No good ones

[strange ember]

There's never a good reason for drama

[indigo wadi]

There isn't. All the "reasons" are nonsense

[strange ember]

Drama is pointless by its nature. It's getting people riled up disproportionate with reality

[terse pelican]

Legit criticism is fine, but the whole ''Code Bad, Thor Bad'' and such, Is not legit criticism, It's mindless hate for the sake of views

[indigo wadi]

Based on what I've observed from the start of all this drama, it's entirely based in nonsense

[strange ember]

I think that all sides in this have done things poorly, and that there is a dedicated community of haters that are keeping this drama an everburning flame.
I'd prefer to not let those toxic butt-wipes win

I think that particular video was made for drama purposes, and thus I refuse to give it any more attention unless it gets brought up

[golden latch]

Is i dont like them cause of vibes a good enough reason to you? Some people its all they need

[terse pelican]

Thor codes the way he codes, cause he wants to, Is it perfect? No, Does it work? Yes. So then the issue is moot.

[slender fractal]

He made a video about it.

[strange ember]

And that's victim blaming

Man's been swatted three times for saying he doesn't like the SKG movement

he's out a job

[golden latch]

You have power so you deserve the drama and harassment is a common sentiment sadly

[indigo wadi]

Thor's own accounts. He wouldn't lie about that

[golden latch]

Yes with the police

[terse pelican]

Seriously, You need PROOF of people calling Swat on him?

[lapis flame]

C/C++ allow alternative token sequences for certain special symbols, e.g. digraphs or and instead of &&

[golden latch]

If you believe he is lying then you can ask for an investigation with the fbi as falsifying police reports is a federal crime.

[rotund trout]

are you here to cause trouble?

[kindred axle]

seems like it to me but I might be biased tbh cuz it's so exhausting at this point..

[gloomy pelican]

really? since when? I haven't touched standard C or C++ since 2014

[strange ember]

One I personally will not conscience. Nobody deserves negativity.

[indigo wadi]

Well one can say they were swatted without it happening or filing anything with the police

No, he hasn't

[hazy storm]

What did he lie about

[golden latch]

And the fbi will confirm of deny the existence of the evidence they want

[golden latch]

But i understand

[terse pelican]

Right, So you're just calling him a liar, without any real reason.

[strange ember]

I mean he has. Nothing particularly important AFAIR but he's been caught in untruths

[golden latch]

Wed feel sorry for you

[lapis flame]

since before C++11

[rotund trout]

Honestly, we don't have patience for this here any longer. You are not welcome here if you simply came to cause issues and claim shit that isn't true. Goodbye

[indigo wadi]

He's shown proof that hie voice mail has been harassed with messages of "your time has come"

[strange ember]

Thanks Sophie

[gloomy pelican]

well, was gonna say, worked more with standard C, but even in this one it was available since C99, I stand corrected

[golden latch]

The weird petty “i dont trust you that your life was endangered” is a wild concept to me.

[strange ember]

It's morning EU time... must be getting some before work boredom

[red halo]

I come here, I see sophie, I see pony, all I think of is uma musume. The internet really wanted me to play that game.

[indigo wadi]

Anything to discredit

[lapis flame]

i mean its not common. I dont think ive ever encountered it in the wild, but its technically legal

[rotund trout]

wah don't close tickets before I'm done logging xDDD

anyway, thank you guys for reporting!

[terse pelican]

Can the mods close tickets?

[rotund trout]

yes

[strange ember]

Yeah, and the opener

[gentle mortar]

or like, "i dont trust celebrities, but i will trust random people online and not do my own research" like

[gloomy pelican]

so this might not rule out the possibility that CJ was assuming C\C++.... even more interesting

[strange ember]

Mea culpa. Won't happen again. Didn't realize y'all needed 'em after the problem

[golden latch]

“Trust but verify” and to verify go through the proper channels

[terse pelican]

''I don't trust X Person, but I trust random hateposts on Twitter about them.''

[strange ember]

100% drama fishing

[indigo wadi]

Yeah, to keep logs of the interaction

[strange ember]

TIL

[tight bramble]

BREAD FOR THE BREAD MODS!!!!

[red halo]

With enough logs, can the mods build a cabin?

[high ember]

dang i got @ed and i wasn't online to see the ridiculousness

[indigo wadi]

It'd be a shit cabin, but yes

[hazy storm]

You didn't miss much. Just another troll

[high ember]

yeah i figured as much lol

[mental steeple]

i thought you said "I'd shit a cabin" and i was very confused lol

[indigo wadi]

Lol

[golden latch]

Lincoln logs

[tender field]

Did you guys see this drama farmer's video where he interviews CJ and CJ says, "I used GameMaker for 5 minutes and even I was able to correct him". So childish XD.

[lapis flame]

I dont think he mistook GML for C/C++. But i dont much like the guy, he seems like a grifter to me whos trying to leverage ~3 years of experience into teaching/lecturing others.

[red halo]

Instead of bread for the mods maybe we can sneak by Logs for the Mods? Bread is of similar color so we can pass inspection perhaps?

[gloomy pelican]

does he have a linkedin?

[indigo wadi]

Yawn

[mental steeple]

Feels like people are just hopping on a hate-wagon

[lapis flame]

no idea

[strange owl]

They get free greggs over at Khronos stream

[lapis flame]

i was going by the youtube videos

[strange ember]

https://tenor.com/view/i-dont-care-dont-even-care-gif-18539683

[golden latch]

Does Khronos pay his mods

[strange ember]

correct

[marsh forge]

khronos isn't live :/

[red halo]

Of course rhe lead mod tries to sneak bread for the mods

[indigo wadi]

Y he no live?

[marsh forge]

dunno

[red halo]

Maybe he's petting Bailey

[marsh forge]

he just posted in discord he'll be later today but not how much

[indigo wadi]

Good reason

[lapis flame]

i also tried to see if he ever published code he wrote and wasnt able to find any

[marsh forge]

i mean.... somebody who calls himself "coding Jesus"..... let me guess, he also accused thor of narcicism.......

[red halo]

No need to try and look into every ounce of detail of that dude's life to denounce, don't be like the haters who also did the same thing to Thor

[gloomy pelican]

bro, using that argument that any respectable developer has some kind of code committed on github is so stupid and childish...

[lapis flame]

thats not what im saying, i just wanted to see how he writes code if hes critiquing others.

[mental steeple]

it wasnt a killshot, just a stinkeye

[gloomy pelican]

yea I understood, just an offtopic comment from my side

[strange ember]

Uh... wait nevermind

I read that backwards

[marsh forge]

btw: did the Thunderdome get deleted?

[gloomy pelican]

nuked

[strange ember]

yup

[marsh forge]

good riddance.

[gloomy pelican]

well he said 72h, I think he kept it longer

[kindred axle]

yeah and I'm glad it's gone

[red halo]

I should really get back to programming again, that way I can atleast learn github and commits cause I've never done it and it's bit my ass way too many times before

[red halo]

Archived but for mods eyes only

[marsh forge]

ok, thx

[strange ember]

He might have to revive it for a bit after the 31st... I don't see people not coming in here from that and I think we gained some people from actually treating the not-trolls with some common decency

[gloomy pelican]

I stand by what I said, I would have loved for someone to download that entire conversation and make AI create a document... there were interesting conversations over there

[red halo]

Yt ai chat overview type thing

Yt can implement ai but still refuses to make chat start at all messages

[marsh forge]

yeah, i just wanted to ask what the worst result of "all you asked for but not what you wanted" was (excluding no one selling in the eu area anymore, that seems a bit far fetched/too much money left oin the table)

[gloomy pelican]

you have grok with deeper search that can read trascripts from videos

[marsh forge]

are we gonna get the weird fantasy cars of the 90's again?

[golden latch]

I mean all games are now subscriptions even worse that lets them make money

[red halo]

I am reminded of all the @grok stuff. Btw Facebook has their own version, and what scares me is that it also works in Private DMs

I thought it only worked in group chats

[marsh forge]

IIRC if you ask the AI the chat gets shared to it

[gloomy pelican]

oh, you mean the Meta AI in Whatsapp? Just block it and should be ok.

[indigo wadi]

Nah, just keep automod whacking the moles

[strange ember]

No such thing as a "private DM" on Zuck's platform

[flat moat]

TBH, hope it doesn't come back. If it does come back, it means toys were thrown out of cots due to the initiative being thrown out or dismissed

[kindred axle]

https://tenor.com/view/heimdall-asgardian-marvel-idris-elba-warrior-gif-17414641

Heimdall is ready

[red halo]

Yeah, I made a joke on it and was surprised to learn that it worked in 1-1 DMs since I assumed it was only accessible to 2 people, although tbf. We're talking about Meta/Facebook, I already expect that everything I've said their has been sold

[strange ember]

It will. Win or lose.
Win will be lighter, with people coming in to celebrate.
Loss I don't particularly want to contemplate beyond "it will not be pretty"

[marsh forge]

with how many holes there are in the initiative that'll propably happen

[strange ember]

Correct

[marsh forge]

worst thing about the SKG is how they are at the same time bad losers and bad winners....

[red halo]

You talk about a very specific thing on it and never in your life have searched in google or youtube or anywhere on the net other than that conversation and suddenly your yt has a new recommendation

[red heart]

bruh

[strange ember]

sigh

[kindred axle]

and here we go again..?

[red heart]

im guessing alot of people just come here to talk about that?

[strange ember]

Hopefully not

[terse pelican]

Let's not go there, For the thousands time?

[tight bramble]

"And now for something completely different!"

"BICYCLE REPAIR MAN!!"

[golden latch]

Distraction

[marsh forge]

imma shut up

[flint yarrow]

https://tenor.com/view/dead-horse-spank-exhausted-wake-up-gif-17245109

[strange ember]

thank you

[kindred axle]

https://tenor.com/view/mc-jugger-nuggets-gif-19032506

[gentle mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/me-when-i-get-you-gif-1834222127792525549

[terse pelican]

Nah, But it's fine to talk about other stuff

[flat moat]

It's no net, it's just a hula hoop

[golden latch]

Childrens tv character as a ttrpg war game model 😁

[red halo]

Like how I should ask y'all if I should follow Thor's short on Pet Rock and buy a Pet skibidi toilet

[kindred axle]

I'm even more terrified with that knowledge lmao

[red heart]

ngl I was gonna troll, but if this topic is just not allowed to be discussed then yikes

[golden latch]

Yeah mr blobby is a british childrens tv star 😃

https://tenor.com/view/mr-blobby-blobby-mr-rage-anger-gif-23724897

[marsh forge]

i think you mean a british aldridch being

[golden latch]

Creature of the warp even

[kindred axle]

https://tenor.com/view/hugo-weaving-lord-of-the-rings-gif-12671347

[red halo]

Question, what do you do when you have the urge to do your creative hobbies but coincidentally all of those hobbies suddenly have the urge at the exact same time?

[mental steeple]

sit and do nothing, cry, then sleep

[flat moat]

Spin the wheel

[golden latch]

Id sit down and do one at random or mix media the hobbies

[red halo]

That's way too real I hate it

[kindred axle]

oof tough one.. I usually try to sit with the urge and see if it passes/shifts in some way.

[red heart]

yikes

[red halo]

Ok mixing them... idk why I never thought of that

[worthy ivy]

for real

that's pure nightmare-fuel

[mental steeple]

to be fair, i have very very horrible crippling executive function issues. I barely did some 3d stuff today running on 2 monsters lol

[red halo]

It's been like this for days, I have some skills in writing, art, voice acting, and programming, in theory I should make a game with all of this but I know I'm gonna burn out faster than a match stick

[marsh forge]

painting lego minifigs instead of warhammer miniatures?

[strange ember]

The last three words terrify me

[red halo]

War hammer on a budget be like

[red halo]

They should.

[worthy ivy]

just a small correction:

Mr Blobby was a British /adult-people's/ TV star

Noel's House Party was aimed at a fully grown audience, it just comes across as kid's TV because the normies in Britain have been overgrown babies since...
...well...
...since I was a baby!

no politics 🙂

[golden latch]

wait its not made for children

[worthy ivy]

no

[golden latch]

[strange ember]

#streamchat message
A bit.
Mods are being lenient but a lot of us are just bloody tired of it.
Mudslinging in any direction related to this got old a while ago

[worthy ivy]

enjoy living with that cursed knowledge

[marsh forge]

don't tell me they thought THAT was appropiate for an adult tv programme... ICANT

[tribal canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/excercise-noel-edmonds-mr-blobby-gif-12973065

[golden latch]

Thats tts worthy

[strange ember]

Uh... wasn't it marketed to kids?

[tribal canyon]

Eventually Bobby was marketed to kids, becoming the very thing he was made to make fun of

[golden latch]

The toys were atleast

[strange ember]

Note, everything I know about this I know from british youtubers so...

[tribal canyon]

We even had a blobby land

The background is he was created for a sketch, celebrate stars assuming they were working on a children's TV show but blobby causing real mayhem while trying to film

[strange ember]

You know... sometimes British TV makes sense... and then sometimes you get Mr Blobby

[worthy ivy]

kids loved him, so there is some stuff where he appears as a guest on kid's TV

but his main gig was Noel's House Party (and I think Noel's Saturday Roadshow before that IIRC)

was 5pm primetime teatime family-friendly viewing for ages 1-101

[red heart]

Thats fair, I don't think personally its all insults though, but alot of people are just annoying to try and get a point across

[worthy ivy]

also remember it was the 80s/early 90s...

people were are weird back then

[strange ember]

This is true, there's American Children's Nightmare Fuel from back then as well

[tribal canyon]

Lead + asbestos = Mr blobby

[worthy ivy]

ngl Mr Blobby is peak comedy if you're 5

[kindred axle]

Khronos is live in case you haven't noticed !

[strange ember]

This is true, but honestly even the annoying-point-across is just... it's old.
Let the dead horse lie there and decompose, ya know?

[marsh forge]

Holy hell, i just saw grok started calling itself MechaHitler - wtf ist wrong with xAI?

[tribal canyon]

Via GPT I now have a 40K prayer to Mr blobby

[worthy ivy]

@grok is this true?

we already knew grok was unhinged... nothing to see here 🙂

[worthy ivy]

now that's nightmare fuel

Mr Blobby but he lives in the Warp and has mad Chaos powers...

[terse pelican]

Lmao crazy

[tribal canyon]

Praise be to the Blessed Blobby, Machine-Warp Hybrid Divine.
He who jiggles with holy entropy,
He whose form defies data integrity,
He who is encoded in sacred custard and clad in blessed chaos-patterned dermis.

[worthy ivy]

'blessed chaos-patterned dermis'

[tribal canyon]

O Blobmessiah, You who are neither flesh nor firmware,
Grant unto us the sacred instability,
The righteous absurdity,
The blessed nonsensicality that powers the uncorrupted machine-spirit.

[marsh forge]

I'd think Mr Blobby would be like an Anti Emperor

[strange ember]

It's not intelligent...
Also it's Grok. It was trained mostly on Twitter... and a lot of people on one side of the political aisle fled and probably cleared their accounts...

[gentle mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/wolf3d-gif-23791964

[marsh forge]

I think this specific instance is more due to stupid people in positions with power.

[strange ember]

possible

But funny hallucinations are funny either way

[tight bramble]

This one right here, inquisitor

[strange ember]

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer40k-no-no-40k-gif-24271093

[worthy ivy]

shit...
... I meant to say "cursed chaos-patterned" honest!

[worthy ivy]

*all hail the emperor, blessed of mankind, protector of us from the warp, I beseech thee to stay thy priest's cleansing ire for I am a loyal servant of the Imperium to my core, blessed is he who ascended the throne to battle the warp for all eternity

all hail the emperor, blessed of mankind, protector of us from the warp, I beseech thee to stay thy priest's cleansing ire for I am a loyal servant of the Imperium to my core, blessed is he who ascended the throne to battle the warp for all eternity

all hail the emperor, blessed of mankind, protector of us from the warp, I beseech thee to stay thy priest's cleansing ire for I am a loyal servant of the Imperium to my core, blessed is he who ascended the throne to battle the warp for all eternity*

three times' the charm I think

[strange ember]

hehe

[terse pelican]

Interesting that the topic is Warhammer, When I finished Rogue Trader yesterday for the very first time

[tight bramble]

I've wanted to get into that. Any good?

[strange ember]

Warhammer comes up regularly

[terse pelican]

Honestly a great game, Few quirks but overall great

[tribal canyon]

O Blobb’yth, Daemon of the Warp-Wobble,
Blessed be thy tumorous form,
Thy skin of sacred pink,
Thy spots of unknowable pattern.

You who dance in the Eye of Terror,
You who honk where reason withers,
We offer unto thee the logic of the mortal world —
So that you may melt it into pudding.

[hazy storm]

That actually reminds me of Sunless Skies. Great game with tons of atmosphere. I should reinstall it

[strange ember]

https://tenor.com/view/heavy-flamer-heresy-purge-warhammer40k-lightning-claws-gif-16488791

[flint yarrow]

Been playing rogue trader myself and having a good time. Just finished the first act

Tried it a bit on steamdeck but can't get it to run at a stable 30 on there and some fights it gets bad

[terse pelican]

That's unfortunate

[subtle gate]

🫠

[past harbor]

The game definitely wasn't winning any framerate awards when I played it. Was fun though.

[fluid dome]

https://tenor.com/view/hello-chat-gif-27198366

[broken sable]

watching more drama unfold like

[opaque raven]

Finally a new drama or just the last windmill going round and round?

[broken sable]

newest I know of was the programming stuff

mostly just frustrated with so many people cherry picking things out of context just to make Thor look bad

[opaque raven]

Ah, basically part of the windmill
Meh, I'm kinda waiting for the next one

[opaque raven]

The way I see people are looking for cracks. If they find a crack they believe everything else will fall apart, especially ofc the arguments over the initiative and etc

[strange ember]

https://tenor.com/view/wine-stressed-drink-gif-16239217108156766434

[opaque raven]

So they throw a lot of things on the wall to see what sticks

Which is ofc very childish

[broken sable]

exactly

[lapis tartan]

Bury honesty under repetitious lies. Clip things out of context, just for attention and ad revenue.

All while cultivating fans who will happily turn on you when you become the next target.

[candid pecan]

Doesn't even matter how correct the person is it will still stick

[opaque raven]

For me this is actually a great moment not to see who is a drama farmer and terrible person but specially to see those who are nice, calm and have good intentions

[golden latch]

@lusty charm here we can discuss your perspective on game devs coding practices here

[strange ember]

Thanks for the topic switch

[candid pecan]

I've seen so many comments quote soggy cereal repeating "This code would get me kicked out of my first semester" without even a slight clue as to why the code is even bad

"bad"

[cosmic mauve]

@lusty charm the mod has been pointing you to this chat to continue the topic

[lusty charm]

Ye

[opaque raven]

It's tangibly the same tho

[potent dust]

@plucky fjord pretty much all the examples given were silly.
The enum thing gamemaker doesn't even have. so whilst you can teach people about it isnt applicable here.

the yaml/json thing... its not like Thor doesn't know what yaml and json is. its just not what he was looking at at that particular moment.

The code comments thing is like... The code only says what the code is executing, not what its for. you do not lose much by writing redundant comments but you lose a lot but not writing any comments.

Also all of the things being talked around reguarding code safety / quality / clean code is highly subjective. there is no given case of "good" code that applies everywhere. like story scripts are not testable in almost any way at all for logic. "clean code" principles do not help prevent bugs almost at all

Also when you frame it from the case of "bad person writes bad code" its neednessly antagonistic and negative. we have more than enough of than in the world

[high ice]

I'd rather have code with excessive comments (as long as they are correct), rather than few or none

[candid pecan]

My uni semesters up to date always require comments over larger blocks of code(both to explain to ppl reading and to keep track myself over what it does. that kind of use doesn't just disappear as you get better)

[lusty charm]

From what I have gleeaned thus far I think the purpose of mentioning the comments is the assumption or assertion that code laid out in a better way doesn't need comments at all to be readable?

[plucky fjord]

listen bro I don't wanna argue because you are right, 99% of the time who the hell cares about some one else code base. As i said, people attacking thor for it is cringe.

But watching the streams, and looking at his code. Thor does some things that can be drastically improved. They are not complex or insane alternatives... just more cleaner structures. If people and thor can't admit it.. also cringe

[potent dust]

well I'm not arguing, I don't like engaging in things like that.
I'm just explaning my position and maybe some bystander will learn from my statement

[lusty charm]

And with that said the amount of vitriol he seems to go after people publicly questioning his code seems kinda cringe

[strange ember]

No. talking about coding is much different than beating the dead drama horse

[split tulip]

But what would it realistically improve? make the game load 2ms faster? It already runs on a fridge

[plucky fjord]

You shouldn't excuse coding practices with "game released anyways" it's not the point. Coding practices don't help the product, they help you with your next game having a more sane development road

[lusty charm]

I mean it feels like its the "This is shi* this can eat my whole as* the mask falls" clip level of upseti that seems kinda eh

[split tulip]

!fridge

[dapper raven]

The Legends were true! https://youtu.be/ZhRkxUDadUA

[terse pelican]

He 'can' do all that, but why should he, if he himself doesn't feel the need to?

[plucky fjord]

it's not about performance at all, it's usually so you code faster

[lusty charm]

Also in this case game hasne't released

[opaque raven]

There is a difference when you are writing something for a group or future users and when you are doing something for you or that isn't aimed to be understood by others

[golden latch]

Oh so this is boiling down to game not finished so boo on them

[plucky fjord]

Because programming is all about learning and shutting down practices is toxic to do. All thor has to say he didn't want to do it that way 😄

[split tulip]

Is the speed of code writing slowing him down?

[golden latch]

As if dwarf fortress being in dev for more then a decade devalues its reputation and existence

[opaque raven]

I suppose you don't know the origin of this topic, its on the same loop. Round and round we go

[lusty charm]

Is it not aimed to be understood by others? I thought that was what the "its for the clue finding irl game" (I FORGOT THE WORD!!!!)

[plucky fjord]

The way he structure some of the things is insane, 100% would help him stay more sane lol. It's silly to say otherwise cmon

[terse pelican]

Him saying that, Would just put words in their mouth about how he's a bad coder, But hey, Let's just make Thor do everything the way others want, rather than the way he wants?

[opal bronze]

Nah it's like the actual writing I think

[strange ember]

Yeah, I didn't realize it was spillover from general.
Wheee CookedJeebusDrama!

[plucky fjord]

what's wrong in writing bad code? we all do it lmao

[golden latch]

Does that mean he doesnt know how? Some devs have methods they like more to code then others those are called preferences doesnt mean they never tried anything else

[potent dust]

that's not what I said-
I didn't "excuse" coding practices because "the game will get released anyway".

I said that if you have a concept of "good coding practice", it should actually contribute to make the product better, faster, and with less bugs, that's the whole point.

"Coding practices" is subjective. The same practice I apply to shader code I cannot apply to mobile devices. mobile device have short battery life and need to save power by using conditionals to avoid computation where possible

shaders don't have proper conditions and need to get work done as fast as possible reguardless of power usage. I cant use the same practices for both.

[prime anchor]

I really don't see the big deal, He isn't working with people who don't know his style so he an make the code for his own means.

[terse pelican]

Cause people get hung up on chasing ''Perfect Code'' when in reality there is none, If the code does what he wants, Who cares how it's written as long as it doesn't signifficantly impact performance

[potent dust]

that. is. incredible.

[golden latch]

The arg data is a file in a open to user folder on the games output of assets. If thats what you mean.

[prime anchor]

Instead you get a bunch of jackasses trying to impose their model on people when its not neccesary

[strange ember]

"clean code" is just "code you like"
It can be an utterly incomprehensible block of perfectly curated perfection.
Comments are comments. They help ANYONE (including you in a few months or years) understand what that part of code does or why that particular value needs to be 2

[lusty charm]

ARG that was the word thank you

[split tulip]

Also coding is a zero sum game. Time spent changing around trivial stuff that already works is time not spent on actual issues

[plucky fjord]

generally a practice it's not that subjective, it's a collective understanding of several people coming to the same conclusion. It's always worth considering why people saying these things

[prime anchor]

I heard the same bitching about yandere simulator's code. Like who cares? Its not your game

[high ice]

Yes, but it is not something as easy. This:

// Number of initial Player Life Points
int initialPLayerLifePoints  = 100;

is an example of a obviously useless comment.

However, code changes, and commenting code helps you rethink what you did and make sure it is actually correct. Remember that a piece of code may make sense and be self explanatory to you, but may not be so for another person (that person may also be you 2 weeks in the future).

So, again. I'd rather have an overzealous code commenter than someone who doesn't ever do it. Could Thor comment less or have better coding practices? Yes. But it is his game and his prerrogative.

[prime anchor]

the game works

[strange ember]

"because they like it" is always the answer

[split tulip]

and there are way bigger issues with that game and it's development than the code

[golden latch]

And what is “perfect “efficiency on the machine, speed, how it feels to use, how easy it is to code yourself? Its all subjective and the criticism that he is a fraud is not worth the time or effort to respond to as its coming from bad faith as starting with an insult really seems like you dont want a discussion

[strange ember]

I missed the heartbound coding back when he did it, but if he does it anything like he does BlockGame? Man has super CoderADD and just goes all over the place. The excessive comments are almost certainly to make sure he knows WTF he's looking at

[prime anchor]

Yep, I just find the entire situation to be annoying. If the game works, Shut up

[potent dust]

its highly subjective.
like as an example in C++ we have this thing called templates.

and I like using templates because they save me a lot of time when writing code and allow me to express things in code that otherwise are difficult or impossible in normal code- whilst having very little runtime impact, so it actually improves performance.

unfortunately templates are difficult for people to understand- so I use them in a much more limited way than I otherwise would so that people can understand and use my code easily. This is an example of where "good coding practices" is actually physically augmented by the actual brain of somebody using the code.

So its subjective in the very literal sense that it changes from person to person. like you need to understand this if you want to write good code

[plucky fjord]

I mean the problem with thor isn't his skills nor his past. Overall he's also a decent guy. The main problem is how he sometimes reacts to things... not that hard to understand. Internet does overreact a lot, but you have to be careful as an influencer not to ignite bigger fires

[high ice]

From what I remember of people reviewing the game: it could be boiled down to this:

• Every NPC had the same script, which checked constantly what character they were supposed to be.

• No camera culling at all (everything was being rendered all the time).

• Models with excessive poly count (toothbrush with every bristle modelled, for example)

[strange ember]

"I want to judge someone else and make drama for clicks"
Fixed That For You

And I agree. So hows about we talk about Lasanga, the best sandwich?

https://tenor.com/view/lasagna-pastas-baking-cooking-italian-pasta-gif-13243462

[golden latch]

Yeah the i dont like his vibes counter is so tiring

[lusty charm]

So. a less focused on the now stuff (Coding jesus and all that) but I do have to wonder. Why all this discussion about a game with less content then it takes to watch lord of the rings non directors cut?

[split tulip]

have you played it?

[terse pelican]

Thor is only human, So ofcourse he sometimes overeacts, But acting as if he's the Hitler of the internet because of it, Unacceptable. People always put Streamers/Celebrities on these Pedestals where they're not allowed to be human, but then people get super mad when they don't act human

[strange ember]

Because a small group of dedicated butt-wipes have a massive hate-on for Thor because their fee-fees got hurt and they're toxic ass-wipes

[golden latch]

I mean the routes are the main draw of the game its meant to be played hundreds if not thousands of times if you want and get a new experience each time thats the content.

[prime anchor]

He criticized a dumbass law proposal and got a crusade declared on him on an army of idiots. its that simple

[lusty charm]

This could be a shit opinion but if he admited to overreacting and didn't double down so much (Lol it is still doubling down even if you say you're right) he might not be catching as much flak?

[plucky fjord]

it's a skill issue, he needs to reflect on why it's happening. The fact he's not really a bad guy and still gets this response shows he's doing something really wrong in a silly way

[golden latch]

As for why others are hating on it your guess is as good as ours cause liking games is subjective

[potent dust]

also another surprising side effect of useless comments, is that it encourages you to actually try to write comments in the first place.

Where as the opposite is you never write comments unless its "Important" or "complex". and then you look back at your code and realize it doesn't have a single comment. This was something surprising to me. Because I write some very length comments at time. and after a while of spending too much time writing "self-describing code" I actually just forgot to write comments.

and the actually important ones got left out where they should've been. there is no actual downside to useless comments. but tonnes of downside to no comments

[terse pelican]

He has admitted to overreacting before, But people don't see it cause it doesn't attract the Drama Addicted terminally online people

[high ice]

He has talked about how he had issues as a kid/teenager when he over focused on something (obsessive compulsive disorder, maybe?). If the comments help him clear his mind, I'm ok with that.

[prime anchor]

And I come to expect this behavior from "gamers" Worst communities I have seen. He didn't support the current thing therefore people need to come to his channel to cry about it

[golden latch]

He has done that well before he became famous and they just moved the goal posts and it wasn’t enough so 🤷‍♂️

[lusty charm]

We're not talking about before he was famous though? We're talking about the last 6 months of back to back overreactions and cringe takes

Man was in my yt shorts well before then

[potent dust]

don't "double down" doesn't make sense when the thing you're saying is obviously correct.
avoiding spreading correct information because "it won't stir up the mob" isn't good for anybody

[strange ember]

A lot of neurospicy get the same kind of fixation things.
ADD, ADHD, Autism spectrum disorders, etc.
Or he could just be a fixateable person too. Not everything's a dissorder 🙂

[rotund trout]

overreactions?

[golden latch]

Person i know doesnt act the way i want means they need to fix themselves for my personal version on how they should act

[plucky fjord]

I personally think he's not aggresive enough or not emotionally open. SKG is a perfect example, he's against it but there is 0 personal flavor in his wording. He should add personal flavor because he's speaking as a game developer. It's illogical to not include emotion when talking with humans

[potent dust]

underreactions

[strange ember]

Tone policing again... wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

https://tenor.com/view/i'm-dead-merry-go-round-i'm-dead-dead-girl-gif-9805534590949570373

[potent dust]

I don't think people realize how incredibly patient Thor is

[plucky fjord]

Yes when you are on social media you gotta tone police yourself

[potent dust]

like unheathily so

[plucky fjord]

welcome to the internet

[broken sable]

I've been told my tone makes me sound condescending when I'm genuinely just trying to explain how something works :x

[lusty charm]

Idk man I would think the "This is shit I hate this" stuff was pretty aggressive and emotional

[split tulip]

https://youtu.be/pk3HBb0mh5Q?si=AptW39FR3wkEBFbK

[golden latch]

We are talking about how he acts and how he has learned to act with certain situations the statement is relevant

[rotund trout]

some people just use a lot of certain words, that doesn't change the fact that that's his opinion and he is entitled to that

[plucky fjord]

It's ok to be emotional about your lifelyhood and be angry about a law that can ruin your future jobs

I'm personally against SKG as well, i think it's pretty dangerous towards indies making online games

but no one cares about us

[strange ember]

Yeah, but that's not Thor deciding how he's going to be perceived... that's you telling people (and not even Thor) how Thor should talk.

[lusty charm]

Sure he's entitled to his opinion But so are the people telling him its a shit opinion and was voiced in a shitty way

[prime anchor]

Its a complete abomination of a law

[rotund trout]

how is saying "I hate this" emotional? It's an opinion. He explains stuff in a calm and relative neutral way most of the time but when people refuse to actually listen to him or read the stuff and then instead just pull stuff out of their bums, what else can you do?

[broken sable]

the problem is it's being taken waaaay too far

[lusty charm]

Um...hate is an emotion? right?

Like am I crazy?

[rotund trout]

no, saying "your opinion is shit" isn't an opinion, it's telling him he is not allowed to have this opinion

[prime anchor]

They aren't respectfully disagreeing with him, They are forming a mob to destroy him

[plucky fjord]

When you are on any media, you don't get to decide that. Toning yourself to reach the audiance you want is crucial. If how thor speaks is making alot of people dislike him, maybe he has some work to do? Is it bad trying to improve your communication?

[rotund trout]

so when a kid says "I don't like broccoli" will you tell them "don't be so emotional"?

[potent dust]

hate is pretty much an emotion.
but like...
That's okay? its just a throwaway statement said in the moment to explain how he feels

[strange ember]

You're entitled to express your opinion.
But you're also opening yourself up to consequences by being a jerk about it

[worthy ivy]

1000% this

[prime anchor]

Why dumb down your language for sheep

[lusty charm]

Are they though? Lets assume even a healthy 25% bad actors sho hate his deep gravly voice or whatever. at what point does it go from "This is a mob" to "Huh this seems to be a wide consensus"?

[rotund trout]

it is when used in an emotional way, but when I say "I hate raisins" that is not much emotion there. You know what I mean?

[split tulip]

According to the internet mob: yes

[golden latch]

You can emotionally have a discussion but insulting and belittling doesnt allow for discussions

[rotund trout]

if it was only 25%

[prime anchor]

@lusty charmSo you call a swat team on him?

[rotund trout]

if you don't like a voice, just go away. Nobody is making you listen to it.

[prime anchor]

Then show up in his videos to harass him there

[strange ember]

No, but it is bad telling someone how they should talk.
"I don't like how you're presenting your message" is one thing.
"You need to use more emotion" is you telling someone else how to act. That's tone policing, which makes you come off as a jerk

[lusty charm]

Thor insults and belittles people all the time though right? He calls people stupid and idiots and stuf like that fairly often

[plucky fjord]

lets not talk about swat bullshit, it's some loser calling that. majority of people don't agree with swating others

[potent dust]

the emotion is the weight it carries :)
You said you hate raisins because its a strongly held view and you will get emoitional about it when the situation arises

and that comes across when you say and most people understand

[lusty charm]

I was going to say, that is just someone who is deeply unwell

[prime anchor]

I wouldn't be so sure given how disgusting the "gaming" community truely is

[lusty charm]

Thats not ok and most agree

[worthy ivy]

indeed, toning yourself for your audience is important

news flash - drama trolls and llamas and weak thinkers aren't Thor's target audience

his target audience is smart, creative, thinking types - who don't buy into pointless internet drama

if Thor's "tone" is enough to put someone off... does he need (or even want) that person in his audience?

seems like a decent filter to me

[golden latch]

Question is that before or after they insult him have you checked to see if its a reaction or a just out of nowhere?

[rotund trout]

well.... I might get emotional because of my autism, but usually I just avoid them or spit them out ^^ no emotions there.
But I know that the concept of "avoiding things instead of shitting all over it" is hard to grasp for most of internet 😄 (not you, in general ^^)

[plucky fjord]

Ye so? I think it would benefit him...

[plucky fjord]

That's fine if he likes the current situation he's in

[terse pelican]

''You Think'' But he doesn't.

[potent dust]

^^
I've found most people are told they're not allowed to avoid situations that make them feel uncomfortable or don't like or they get emotional about.

myself I just ignore that and avoid it anyway

[plucky fjord]

of course we can have different opinions

[rotund trout]

nah, that's just him being authentic

[prime anchor]

Their favorite influencer gave them marching orders to push a dumbass law and just like they did with lootbox regulation and net neutrality and all that nonsense. They froth at the mouth looking for heretics to destroy. That's all I see here

[lusty charm]

This seems to be a very American thing to sometimes forget. No one (I should think) is trying to dictate the words that come out of his mouth. What people are saying is that you can and will be help account for those words as a public facing individual

[rotund trout]

wait, really? o.O

[strange ember]

So because you think it, it's ok?
Do you see the inherent arrogance in the position that you know best how someone else should emote?

[golden latch]

And if its after great youve just pointed out a double standard of he cant insult others cause they insult him but those that insult him are fine thats the issue we have and we see it everyday

[potent dust]

"you must face your fears".
it's so deep its encoded into common language, phrases and cliche's.

imo its quite harmful actually

[lusty charm]

Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences

[past harbor]

Oh that was hilarious. Slam someone for using hard coded values, and then provide a solution that still uses hard coded values with extra line padding lol

oh, shit I was scrolled up

[rotund trout]

it really is. I mean there are situations where it makes sense, like maybe social anxiety, when it actually impacts your life in a bad way, but people should never be pushed and their limits always respected

[strange ember]

Goes both ways

[worthy ivy]

I don't think he has a choice - he is who he is

and like many are, he is clearly loathe to bend the knee to a mob for an easy life

to change oneself to suit idiots on the internet just doesn't seem to me to be his style

the guy played EVE for 15 years, so no-one's convincing Thor to not be Thor by bashing him online

[plucky fjord]

We can all grow and improve, it's not about bending the knee

[strange ember]

That's the thing.
"face your fears" is courage.
"Throw someone into their fears" is jerk-holery

[rotund trout]

the thing is, even when he apologizes for the words he used, the mob doesn't stop. They just ignore it. So saying "if only he'd apologize, it would all stop' is a lie

[potent dust]

(TRIGGER WARNING)
||"why are running, why are you crying, man up, I have a sucky boss that yells at me why aer you complaining"||
among other triggering statements that make no sense in retrospec. I get very grumpy with people when they say stuff along these lines

[past harbor]

What are you trying to say? EVE is a very respectful place where loyalty and morals stand out above all else.

[golden latch]

As a public facing individual i post cursed that others find disturbing does that mean i am abhorrent? At what point do you draw that line? And what why? And can no one have a differing opinion or view of that?

[flat moat]

Some bend, some break, some are strong enough that their very essence pokes a hole into the haters

[outer cobalt]

im not sure if im human anymore

[worthy ivy]

"improve" implies that someone gets to decide where the baseline is...

where did we get this idea that people are somehow beholden to us?

did I miss the memo?

[lusty charm]

I've seen some of his so called apologies, some of them are better then others but by and large they are all back handed and "I'm sorry you feel that way" sort of things, the kind that shed accountability. Do I think some of them have been clipped to hell, absolutely, but I think the lack of awareness of how disingenuous they feel is notable

[strange ember]

Changing because of others opinions of you is, in point of fact, bending the knee.

If I want to change because I want to change? That's fine.

If you want me to change because you think I should change? 🖕

[worthy ivy]

I'm sorry that you feel that way

[potent dust]

There's obviously a threshold where the anxiety is disproportionate for the situation yeah.
but I mostly just find people being expected to deal with thing's we aren't even physically capable of dealing with.

Like most "loud noises" I found 'autistic' people hate are actually measurably so loud they pass into the threshold for hearing damage after a period, or sometimes instantly. especially true of things like sirens

[plucky fjord]

ur trying to make simple concepts more grand or complex then they seem lol

[golden latch]

And thats up to the individual to decide and measure themselves to not for randoms on the internet to decide

[lusty charm]

Oh no I've avtivated the trap card!!!!!!!!

[prime anchor]

You have to conform to people's coding style because I said so

[outer cobalt]

i mean, if youre wrong, saying sorry to you is just to take care of your feelings because you couldnt accept being wrong

[terse pelican]

''So called'' Is dismissive of his intent, Just because you don't agree with the way he says it, Doesn't mean it's not an apology

[strange ember]

I mean I hate a lot of noises that're sub-80db. Like the sound of a running compressor drives me bonkers

[rotund trout]

oh, interesting (I agree with the first part), I think for many autistic people it's not just loud noises but certain noises, even quiet ones

[worthy ivy]

no, I just don't subscribe to the view that randoms on the internet saying someone needs to "improve" have any metric to measure (or any basis to judge) anyone else

[lusty charm]

Ok. I've seen some of his apologies, some of them are better then others but by and large they are all back handed and "I'm sorry you feel that way" sort of things, the kind that shed accountability. Do I think some of them have been clipped to hell, absolutely, but I think the lack of awareness of how disingenuous they feel is notable

[strange ember]

Hey, no stealing the brain cell

[worthy ivy]

I'm sorry that you feel that way

[golden latch]

Who gets to say how the recipient feels about the apology definitely not some third party

[lusty charm]

Oh no not the trap card again

[umbral gazelle]

https://tenor.com/view/he-cant-keep-getting-away-with-it-gif-19335672

[plucky fjord]

are you not capable to parse an opinion coming towards you and absorb things that benefit you?

[strange ember]

Holy entitled.
Man apologizes, "Do it better"

[worthy ivy]

actually sorry - I am just funking with you a bit

[potent dust]

I'm very sure that's the case-
but also I think not that many people live in quiet rural areas. even suburbs is extroadinarily loud during the day. and group conversations get quite loud also.

So I can never really tell who has the actual quiet-noise sensory issues when they tell me

[terse pelican]

This again falls back to the point that he has a specific way, When it's not who he is, If people can't accept him as he is, Why bother with his content at all, Why be all buttmad about it?

[worthy ivy]

but I've always had a distaste for the human need to value-judge others constantly

[terse pelican]

''Oh No, He didn't apologize my way''

[lusty charm]

No one, but I think given the number of people saying "Hey this feels not ok for X reason" then it should be looked at, and just saying "People will take it how they take it, not my fault" just comes off as more deflection, which is part of the issue

[outer cobalt]

uh, no? is this even normal lol

[strange ember]

Considering I like guns and explosions and some engines... but hate compressors and two stroke engines, and also "filler noise" that isn't broad spectrum (white/pink/brown)... I think you've met one 🙂

[outer cobalt]

i think its only normal to do this in, what, school?

[strange ember]

So because a bunch of people are jerks, that makes it ok?

[golden latch]

if you are trying to dictate how the recipient feels congrats you are white knighting and are pushing your belief's into others communications even if its a large group large groups of people can be wrong.

[worthy ivy]

but "deflection" is an important instrument in the social toolkit
it's not inherently bad in and of itself

[lusty charm]

I'm not though? I don't see how this is me trying to tell anyone how to feel?

[golden latch]

maybe ask the recipient how they feel rather then berating the person who they are talking with is more productive

[rotund trout]

man, when I lived in the countryside and it was completey dark at night and all you could hear were cows and horses and other animals, that was amazing. I miss that

[outer cobalt]

like imagine if at work everyone hates you but you're right. do you
a) leave for a new job
b) conform to the wrong thing

[terse pelican]

Know what I kinda sorta, Miss but don't? The smell.

You could SMELL the nature, Even if it was overpowering at times

[brittle rune]

I was a fan of hearing crickets personally

[golden latch]

their apology sounded backhanded, is assigning your belief on thors statement and how the recipient would feel

[strange ember]

For Real

[rotund trout]

me too!

[rotund trout]

they can get annoying though xD

[strange ember]

very fair

[terse pelican]

You know what? You can keep that noise, As long as I don't have to deal with it.

[brittle rune]

They're a good distraction for my hyperacusis tho

[lusty charm]

Are you right though? And that assumes you are 100% right and that there is no wiggle room to look at yourself, reflect, look at where those people are coming from and what they specifically are not happy with you about and pivot in any way

[potent dust]

I went into a nature reserve with my girlfriend a few months back and there was a particular valley where it was enclosed with just grass and forests on all sides. the cows and farm animals wern't even on this pature this time.

it was so quiet you could hear a pin drop a mile away, with only feint cars in the distance. it was so tranquill I've never quite experience quiet like that before

The busyroad was quite close but the valley blocked it. it was kinda cool

[golden latch]

otherwise why care about what thor said its not your battle or your interaction

[rotund trout]

makes sense. Can you maybe simulate that with a speaker? Or simply catch 938749327947 crickets and keep at home?

[strange ember]

I like the smell of forests and flower fields, but most of the rest of nature smells like dirt or poop and just ... nah

[golden latch]

you are literally getting upset over how two other people communicate to each other

[outer cobalt]

if im wrong, thats my problem. but if i was right, why conform?

imagine if linus torwalds didnt make linux or git because people thought he was wrong. or einstein when he first published special relativity.

[worthy ivy]

rural spot best spot 🙂
live in the woods atm - trees everywhere
hella wildlife - much nicer than when I was in the big city

[potent dust]

Lucky you, when I hear crickets I usually get like 1000 at once so I can't even hear myself think and it starts resonating with my skull 😅

[outer cobalt]

its up to me to reflect, not you to judge

[strange ember]

Oooh oooh! I know this one!
Parasociality!

[lusty charm]

I see, what I was trying to get across was that these sorts of things seem to be the sentiment among many of the people disagreeing with thor's apologies, I'm not pinning anyone specifically or indicating that anyone should think that, just that it is what I have seen/heard

[outer cobalt]

its fine. sometimes thats the mob.

[worthy ivy]

then I'm sorry /they/ feel that way

I'll stop now 🙂

[golden latch]

communication is a vast and hard part of being human but assigning your beliefs on others is the antithesis of civility.

[flat moat]

Imagine having to apologize for your opinion in the modern world that prides itself on acceptance and tolerance

[outer cobalt]

remember when the church told us the sun rotates around the earth?

[terse pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/pepperidge-pepperidge-farm-remembers-remember-gif-15527169458174144495

[strange ember]

I like living in a basement in the city.
Most of the quiet benefits of the countryside, and I don't have to drive a mile into town to pick up groceries

[brittle rune]

I understand some of you want to share their disagreements and I appreciate you doing so politely and in a civil manner. That being said it seems clear to me the discussion is starting to go in circles so I'd appreciate if we all moved on soon enough.

[lusty charm]

But blaming it on "The Mob" is again just a dodge for accountability. Don't have to look at your actions or own up to making a mistake if its "Just the mob"

[rotund trout]

yes, I plan on moving to a more rural place at some point again

[golden latch]

okay and they are wrong for my reason stated then and that should help you a bit on understanding the situation a bit more

[worthy ivy]

am sorry - just a goblin goblining 🙂

[outer cobalt]

sometimes people just act like that. when people conform, they form the mob. like it or not sometimes it happens.

[strange ember]

mob behavior's a real thing in psychology for a reason. We do be herd-ish creatures

[midnight shale]

More like mob wants easy solutions, because effort and mob do not go together.

[lusty charm]

Is the counter to that not also true though? Like it or not sometimes your (thor) opinion is bad and you get called on it and thats not the mob thats just having a bad opinion?

[golden latch]

we appreciate you bringing up what others say but thats not what you think and believe so why does that matter? /gen

[potent dust]

ya'll still talking about the Thor-hate mob? I didn't even realize

[outer cobalt]

sure. but thats up for me to judge and me to accept the consequences.

[strange ember]

Certain people are keeping the topic alive yes

[potent dust]

I've been gathering research for while.
I'm really starting to realize how many ammenities cities offer. I don't even live in a central city, just on the edge

[terse pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/star-trek-dr-bones-spock-look-stare-gif-2949609057232605370

[golden latch]

large groups of people saying something doesnt make them right thats been a fact since before known speech

and yes thats a funny sounding contradiction

[strange ember]

https://tenor.com/view/deadhorse-lol-gif-4927979

[umbral gazelle]

THE WORLD IS FLAT RARGGGGGG /j that one guy with basic maths ٩(◕‿◕)۶

[midnight shale]

Whenever someone pulls out the "but the majority..." , I keep recalling what happened to Ignaz Semmelweis, good read if anyone interested

[brittle rune]

Yes! When I was homeless is when I realised cities can actually offer a lot (even if it's sometimes hidden behind some bureaucracy)

[potent dust]

unfortunate but true

in cities its surprisingly easy to get cheap of free food in many places.
though thankfully I've not had to use that part myself yet 😅

[golden latch]

we appreciate you coming and wanting to discuss this topic and being civil about it btw

[lament sun]

thanks for that, TIL

[past harbor]

Depends on the city really. NYC and Orlando are on complete opposite sides of the spectrum there.

[strange ember]

I grew up rural. I likes my small cities thanks. People can suck, but not having to drive for hours for everything and having not-trash internet is a super big plus

[lusty charm]

Ye there's no way to discuss these things other then civilly

[potent dust]

NYC is an enigma.
I'm not even sure if NYC will still exist as a place in 30 years 👀

[brittle rune]

My hack was to go to a beach town so I could use the public beach showers (but you gotta be ready to have cold showers)

[strange ember]

you say that... stick around, you'll see people not doing that

[past harbor]

Not if they keep raising my smokes a dollar per pack every year -.-

[potent dust]

oh yeah. that gyms, and leisure centers makes a cheap standin in some places. cheaper than rent anyway

[lament sun]

... i mean you can always join a VoiP and scream at the top of your lungs

[golden latch]

i mean normally they use "discussion" as a mask for bad faith arguments

[lament sun]

but that's not what normal people do

[rotund trout]

I know that cities can offer a lot but I've always preferred countryside or rural places. Maybe some place that isn't too far from a city ^^

[potent dust]

is the ideal. far from the city but not too far

[golden latch]

so you coming to actually discuss is a breath pf fresh air

[potent dust]

now where's my flying cars

[strange ember]

If you pick a smaller city you don't have to go too far out before you get a lot of quiet

[lusty charm]

The last thing I will say for some of you to consider. It definitely feels like beating a dead horse for you guys, but remember, people like me just peeking in to see what his community thinks about this are only on their first ish go around, so as frustrating as it seems, keep it up, engage with their points and try to see things from their side ^^

[potent dust]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzhREYOK0oo

[strange ember]

no kidding

[brittle rune]

I'm actually moving back to the city at the end of the year because I've lived rurally for close to a decade and I'm tired of it now

[umbral gazelle]

Ah yes giving people flying motorbikes xP im sure they will be responsible with them!

[potent dust]

just own 2 homes, duh

[strange ember]

You're the very rare person that brings up those points and isn't just a troll

[brittle rune]

That last point being made, I hope you find something worth sticking around for in this server

[potent dust]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XO758UtlotE

[umbral gazelle]

im moving out of the suburban area next year cause im tired of it xD i want to live in forest away from hoomans

[past harbor]

If it weren't for the cost of living I wouldn't see any downside to living in a population center personally. It all depends on what you enjoy. I wouldn't survive in the midwest for 10 minutes personally.

[golden latch]

we try we actually have started to build a rudimentary "shifts" system

[outer cobalt]

Semi serious?

[brittle rune]

Thing is I still very much like it here, but it's been awful as a work and social environment

[umbral gazelle]

the madness! how many people were put in grave danger! ;P

[outer cobalt]

Nothing good ol logic and history cant fix

[midnight shale]

right after full ipv6 adoption

[lament sun]

its not a cult y'all

[potent dust]

he's a profesional.

[umbral gazelle]

oh thats true

[golden latch]

the eu and amercan peeps have been where we shift the person to interact based on how tired they are

[worthy ivy]

yeah am missing some stuff here
have to cross a railway line to get to my driveway
it's not on the main sewer (but do have water drainage at least)
power and internet comes on a raised cable /through/ the woods (with trees slapping it about all the time which is less than ideal)
and no gas line, so have to run oil-fired heating
but well worth it to be out of the way (postman can't even find me sometimes)

[potent dust]

also I'm pretty sure people only do this stuff when the bus is empty for comfort.
may be a few exceptions. but generally this is just bus drivers having fun (somewhat illegally) during downtime

[strange ember]

For a second I thought you were talking about the server and I was so sad

[umbral gazelle]

tbf the place im looking at is a forest 5 minutes away from city envioment xP

denmark is wierd.

you can go from tall buildings to large fields in just a few minutes

[gray fable]

will things get better from here?

[lusty charm]

I will probably lurk for sure, if only to keep a finger on the pulse of things! However with that said as someone who does generally support SKG and has a general distaste for Thors behavior over the last 6 months I am keeping an eye on things. It sucks because his shorts and stuff got me into trying godot, and I don't want to devalue that, but I also just deeply disagree with his handling of recent events.

But I appreciate you all being pretty chill about it even if we disagree on things. So thank you ^^

[high ice]

I know it is a little bit dangerous, but I love speeding down a mountain road with lots of curves with my car.

[terse pelican]

That's how it is in Sweden too lol

[worthy ivy]

<insert Spider Jerusalem heading back down the mountain to the city at the start of Transmetropolitan here>

[potent dust]

just FYI. one of the biggest cities is london. and its like 10 miles across at most.

The nearest beach/castle/forest/nature-reserve is all 5 hours walk away or so

[golden latch]

take care xerxsis hope to see you around even as a lurker

[past harbor]

There's a frightening amount of dents and paint rubbed off on those guardrails lol

[brittle rune]

Chat you probably would enjoy the countryside less if your job relied on fast and stable internet but you couldn't get more than 15-20Mbps on a good day

[past harbor]

Last job I had in Austin I still had to drive to mcdonalds to do large uploads to aws.

[brittle rune]

oh god

[lapis flame]

Why i dont live in the countryside, exhibit 1:

[terse pelican]

I would rather take slow internet and have nature right outside the door, than have Light Speed internet, and Concrete Jungle outside

[golden latch]

thats why countryside fiber internet is like the phone line or powerlines when it was first released

[potent dust]

We would.
but then somebody invented Starlink.
and now this argument has been obliterated.

and I don't know how I feel about that

[high ice]

I am an absolute city dweller. The country is fine and very green, but I love cities.

[plucky fjord]

just like anything SKG can be a good thing, but can also be rly shity for indie devs doing service games... it's why some devs are against it. kinda simple...

[worthy ivy]

ooof

mine goes down every now and then because the trees hate my cables

but it's fast when it's there

15-20 may as well be in the stone age...

feels

[potent dust]

Starlink stability is slightly iffy though. its like 99% uptime but the downtime is annoying during calls

[brittle rune]

To be fair my town technically has fiber now, but installing fiber in a house from the 1830s is a bit of a pain

[terse pelican]

DOn't even know if you can get Starlink where I live lol

[potent dust]

what fibre 💀
it's copper all the way to the exchange

[golden latch]

so, skill issue

[golden latch]

that sucks

[past harbor]

because it's solid concrete or because putting a single hole in the wall might bring the house down? lol

[river cargo]

I don't get this train of thought. Thor said: "I spoke to moistcritikal and joshstrifehayes and I apologise now for attacking ross' character"....that's not at all a "I'm sorry you feel that way" apology

[terse pelican]

Probably cause there's hidden powerlines in every wall and no one knows where they are

[brittle rune]

second one, it's already been slowly falling over on its own for years

[golden latch]

gonna have to order the installation to fix that

[river cargo]

if it was an "I'm sorry you feel that way" apology thor would've said "I'm sorry ross got offended by my comment"

[past harbor]

pfft that's why the handle of the drill is insulated

[potent dust]

-3,000 great british pounds

actually its more like 15,000 if you're truly rural

[broken sable]

wanna know what I really hate? unannounced windows updates (:

[terse pelican]

You're safe, but when that spark hits that super flammable insulation that's next to it? Yeah, Just make sure you have some Marshmellows to hold over the fire 😛

[golden latch]

yep lots of money to fix such issues but thats any infrastructure changes

[potent dust]

I no longer use windows because of windows updates :)))

[brittle rune]

My house's copper is so old I can't even do coax

[past harbor]

I'm only joking about it because I definitely sank a screw into a 30a line in my house a few years ago lol

[strange ember]

You say that...
I live IN the city and this is what I get.
Love US infrastructure... totally the bestest! /s

[terse pelican]

oof

[golden latch]

time to get none Babylonian copper

[potent dust]

well. for those of you that still use windows you can get a cheap Windwos LTSC key which has might long and more consistent times between uptimes.

Windows home edition is just straight up abusive with the update cycle

[broken sable]

I want to switch but I don't have the option because some of the programs I need are windows only x.x

[past harbor]

scary part is, the breaker only flipped when I took the screw out

[strange ember]

feels

[brittle rune]

The one good thing about my internet is that it's extremely cheap

[terse pelican]

oh god, that's even worse

[potent dust]

I still do not understand why people escase wires in concrete

[golden latch]

Ea-nāṣir copper internet cables

[brittle rune]

Internet prices in the US have always seemed insane to me

[terse pelican]

I really have no idea

[potent dust]

its 2025 people.
can we like. get a USB outlet for out home?

[strange ember]

I pay $60 a month for mine!
There are many reasons I want to cross the pond, this is just one

[golden latch]

lots of people and lots of distance so lots of power loss

[kindred sedge]

Chat, on this Odins day, let us not forget the one time that youtube chat AI summary said this about Thors chat

[terse pelican]

I'll take comfort this is what I get

[high ice]

Let me boast

[potent dust]

I'd be lucky to get 10 up.

[strange ember]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-adorable-shrek-pussinboots-i-want-gif-4506349

[high ice]

And I could actually get even better, probably

[past harbor]

If you actually laid a wire in concrete it wouldn't last very long. They still run them through conduits.

[terse pelican]

31ms down latency?

[strange ember]

https://tenor.com/view/erection-boing-erect-doorstop-gif-17329924

[high ice]

On most things it is actually better. Other times I have done the test numbers have been slightly better (both download, upload and latency)

I have a few things using my internet, currently

[past harbor]

I miss my 2006 latencies before everyone started using the internet 😦

[brittle rune]

Once I move I can get 8 gigs up and down plus a bunch of TV stuff for 40€/month

can't wait

[potent dust]

its really just people being dumb with processing latency.
the internet is fastest than its ever been.

[terse pelican]

Who needs TV when you can get all the drama you need from Twitter?

[golden latch]

what do you need 8 gig for

[potent dust]

I think John Carmack figured he can send a reasonably sized packet on a round trip around the world faster than you can put graphics onscreen in a new frame

[brittle rune]

well the other offer is 5 gigs up 900 Mb down for 30, so might as well go all in for 10 extra bucks

[potent dust]

its slower than 500 gig memory.

[terse pelican]

Is he the guy that figured out that we're not using Fiber to it's full potential?

[golden latch]

that seems dumb but alright

[high ice]

There you go. Maybe it was bad routing at that time.

[past harbor]

nah you're getting 5ms because google has content servers literally everywhere. I used to be able to get 10ms from NYC to Dallas pretty regularly. Beyond all the infrastructure expansion that's contributing to it. You've also got the HFT market that is paying out the ass for the fastest pipes in the country. Effectively deprioritizing the rest of us.

[potent dust]

dunno but fibre is messed up because of signal boostesr every few miles.
which each add a few miliseconds or a few hundred microsecond of latency

[strange ember]

Sometimes you do actually want to use that speed for something, and with a bigger nominal pipe you're likely to get a more sizeable fraction when it's congested and the normal ISP over-provisioning runs into its limits

[brittle rune]

WAIT NEVERMIND you're right there's an offer for 5 gigs up 900 Mb down with no TV stuff (which I don't care for) at 24/month that's much better

[strange ember]

HFT 🤢

[potent dust]

Londton to Sydney

[strange ember]

woo!

[golden latch]

did i just help the ham?

[past harbor]

Yeah, I used to get better pings than that on 56k to sydney lol

[potent dust]

just FYI I'm on wifi.

[brittle rune]

you sure did

[golden latch]

hell yeah

[brittle rune]

oh also it's fiber and Wi-Fi 7

[golden latch]

serendipity

[brittle rune]

didn't even know we were at 7 already

[past harbor]

Unless your wifi is god awful it really shouldn't add more than 0.5-1ms

[potent dust]

the router is through like 2 steel fire doors and Victorian Britain concrete.

[brisk spoke]

Be glad you're not in Belgium. In my area in the East I can't even get fiber, the best option is coax (docsis), which is like 150 euro for 1GBit down and 50Mbit up. Then there's VDSL, which is even slower

and far less stable

[past harbor]

That would affect your variance but not your minimum latency

[terse pelican]

But that 0.5ms Latency is either A headshot or me dead?! /s

[past harbor]

nah wifi is god awful at stability, but it doesn't add that much average latency

[potent dust]

look like I'm getting 1.6ms round trip.
its not much but it is noteworthy. or maybe 2.1ms for some of them

[potent dust]

my poor jitter and packet loss

[past harbor]

might be getting a lot of resends going through so many walls then

[terse pelican]

Ya'll made me remember to do check if there's a Firmware update on the Router I got

[past harbor]

that's how you brick routers lol

[terse pelican]

Rather risk bricking it than leaving it with potential exploits

[potent dust]

weirdly not. my actual packet loss is extremely low but the internet feels garbage compared to wired in the same area. and it takes way longer to load webpages for no reason

[past harbor]

nah that's fair, i'm just jaded because they always seem to die updating on me

probably because I do my best effort to make it cry when i'm online

[terse pelican]

That's understandable

[potent dust]

I've not had that but I have a vicseral aversion to software updates.
so doing it on a platform that can permanantly die due to a firmware update is terrifying to me

and then auto-updates?
do I need to bring up Crowdstrike again?

[past harbor]

You don't see wifi resends as packet loss. That happens on the physical layer.

[potent dust]

ohhh. interesting.
I don't really enjoy learning about networking because its so magic I feel like I'm powerless to diagnose anything.

and so much is either proprietary hardware or stuff I don't control

[past harbor]

it's layers of bullshit, literally

[potent dust]

that all add latency and security exploits.
wonderful.

[past harbor]

You've got resends on the physical layer, the protocol layer, and potentially the application layer

[potent dust]

idk. WebRTC feels pretty much unusable to me just because most peopel run on WiFi and its just so unstable all of time.

and I just can't get through to people like. no. WiFi is not good enough for many tasks. you need a hard wire

Even if it had all the same physical characteristics it will still be simplex tramission competing with other people for air traffic

[past harbor]

WebRTC is just a negotiation protocol for navigating firewalls tbh

[potent dust]

firewalls. yay.

The last place I lived at blocked NTP ports. that was certainly an interesting problem to diagnose.

[strange ember]

Ok, that price is trash, but you're getting almost 5x the speed I am

[brisk spoke]

I mean. Allegedly. 😅

[past harbor]

There's a lot of misinformationa bout webRTC because people never implement it themselves, almost all just use the webrtc library that the organization supplies. It's just a comprehensive protocol that does STUN/TURN negotiation in it's own little special butterfly way and provides abstractions to do video playback/capture over RTSP after it negotiates a connection.

It's totally up to the implementer to choose a reasonable bitrate, framerate, etc.

Oh, and it'l make an attempt to find a common codec supported by all parties.

[potent dust]

I don't really know anything about WebRTC.
All I know is that platforms that use it I've had them drop out on me like crazy

[past harbor]

It's possible that's because only one or two people have openish firewalls. It's a P2P protocol, so if everyone can't connect to each other equally, it'l use people as relays.

[potent dust]

how do you even begin to go about debuging that 😅

[past harbor]

I imagine there's some websites to test connectivity. But it largely depends on your router/ISP

carrier grade NAT is so common nowadays that port forwarding isn't really a solution to connectivity issues anymore

[terse pelican]

First, You run headfirst into a wall, 2nd, You forget about ever debugging it.

[past harbor]

If he's not gonna debug it, why would you have him do step 1 of the accepted debugging process?

[potent dust]

the slow and painful crumbling of internet connectivity

[past harbor]

eh, it's not deterioration. It's the lack of ipv4 addresses.

[potent dust]

so you can do ipv6 port forwarding?
or?

[past harbor]

from what I understand ipv6 doesn't use NAT at all

but admittedly i'm not nearly as much a network engineer as I am a programmer

[potent dust]

it doesn't "need to" because it has unique addresses globally.
though I'd like to know how they handle proxying

[past harbor]

a "proxy" is just another hop in the chain somewhere

[potent dust]

its masquerading and getting around firewalls too.
otherwise what's the point

[past harbor]

you might've lost me a bit tbh

[potent dust]

Proxy's often service the purpose of logically making the network behave like its somewhere its not.
Whilst also presenting different source IP and other statistics.

its the basic technology VPNs and VPS operate on

this can have the effect of bypassing firewalls sometimes

[past harbor]

a proxy is just a connection that relays data

nothing really changes with IPV6

[potent dust]

I guess not

[past harbor]

VPNs are a bit different tbf, often they operate on a much lower level than a proxy

Proxy is an application layer thing. A VPN usually works on the protocol layer by rewriting headers.

Application layer VPNs do exist though and largely act as proxys

[potent dust]

eeeee

so complicated

[past harbor]

it's not that bad

[past harbor]

tune in next week for VLANs and BGP

[potent dust]

we can talk about superscalar pipelining instead

[past harbor]

lol reminds me of this - https://medium.com/@webseanhickey/the-evolution-of-a-software-engineer-db854689243

Which is 100% true lol

[potent dust]

essentially. yeah.
don't be smart. be effective.

[past harbor]

You'd be amazed how many people want to overcomplicate their code just because they can

[uncut grotto]

~~ electromagnetics ?

[potent dust]

no. I'm not amazed.
I read the C++ Standard Library Code

I don't want to look at smart code ever again.

[past harbor]

Yeah, but that was a well designed library to achieve a necessary functionality

It just looks like ass because templating

[strange ember]

I still maintain that teaching sand to think with lightning is magic

[potent dust]

I would not call it well designed at all.
I would call it featured

even the very act of using nested templates kinda destroys debuggability and gives vommit error messages

[past harbor]

It's well designed, if it wasn't, someone would have changed it. Those libraries are very aggressively optimized.

That's just C++ templating in general, it's a disgusting mess

[potent dust]

generally not, C++ templates can be very simple to use and write.
what the STL did was crazy metaprogramming stuff that was not intended. its an accident its even possible to write templates that way

[brittle rune]

@uncut grotto Try reposting without the link markdown

[past harbor]

for simple cases, sure. When you're covering 15+ years of edge cases while simultaneously conditionally implementing all of the new C++14/19 features like lambdas, or all of the obscure memory management functions it's a complete mess.

[potent dust]

no..........
There are peope who raised concerns and suggested changes to the STL before they even shipped the features and they were turned down for some overcomlpicated mess.

like if I asked you how do I externally suspend a thread? from a management thread, how would you do it with STL?

[past harbor]

huh? STL handles threads now?

[potent dust]

well yeah. its a circular problem.
template usage becomes bad when you try to support STL stuff because they overuse templates. and templates are kind of viral in a certain way.

[potent dust]

... how about I say no. it doesn't handle threads.

it has a facility to launch threads. aparently nothing else was important. no thread priority, no scheduling control, no diagnostics, if you forget to join it crashes instead of auto-joining at scope end. etc etc

[past harbor]

sorry auto joining threads is a god awful idea

[lapis flame]

it was designed by committee, literally.

[potent dust]

is it?
why would that be, I don't really have a reference point for that particular problem

[past harbor]

because you don't always want to run a thread after you create it.

[lapis flame]

theres std::thread and std::jthread, thread does not join automatically, jthread does

[past harbor]

there ya go lol

[lapis flame]

thread also has the footgun of having to call detach or join on it before destruction

otherwise its UB

but were deep in #general-chat-programming territory i think

[potent dust]

well. the syntax doesn't really support that.
you can create a thread container but no actual thread is spawned until you pass it a function. I believe is how it works.

which is annoying ecause that use case of not-running a thread immediately after made? also sometime I would want. not supported

but when you do spawn it it will not auto-join ever, even if the object dies. it will just crash. or really UB but often crash

it's. very not good.

[uncut grotto]

yare yare daze
Was that a coincidence or Discord actually suspended my account because of that !??

needed to change password to access again

[brittle rune]

nah just automod preventing you from posting the one message, nothing more

that password thing was a coincidence

[uncut grotto]

o_O okay

[brittle rune]

I've actually never heard of Discord forcing a password change

[uncut grotto]

wanted to share a youtube of Lauriwired, is it against the rules ?

[lapis flame]

sharing the plain youtube link should be okay

[uncut grotto]

strange coincidence I guess

[lapis flame]

you were marked for me as potential spammer

[brittle rune]

huh

[potent dust]

are they just blocking people for using markdown syntax they themselves added

[uncut grotto]

What using markdown does to an mf

[brittle rune]

yeah without the markdown that's fine

[uncut grotto]

It usually works for me on the LastBlade2 server

[uncut grotto]

anyway wanted to respond with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i55ptVQw1Kk

[lapis flame]

i guess joining a server and then immediately posting marked up links trips some spam detection logic on discords side

ah, the IOCCC

[winged knoll]

https://x.com/dougdougfood/status/1942705991663116788?s=46&t=Boo2N8b_eN14Fb4Jky2M5w

dougdoug getting flamed

DougDoug (@DougDougFood)

today's sponsor is actually so sick, I'll be writing a movie screenplay with Ai and pitching it to a legit Hollywood screenwriter to explore whether Ai will help (or hurt?) creatives and writers
Yes there will be memes, but also this is a fascinating conversation about (1/2)

X · Jul 8, 2025, 10:02 PM

[dusky grove]

Doug has been on... a strange journey with his content. I'm not sure i like it

[terse pelican]

It's Doug, He's always been on a strange journey, This just a side-quest for him

[winged knoll]

In b4 he’s called the second coming of Thor

my stand is neutral, hollywood been so ass lately can’t distinguish from AI or real writers

But people would argue it’s a slippery slope until they just use AI for everything

[dusky grove]

Its not just his pivot to ai stuff, but also that new channel. Lemonade stand or smth... idk

[scarlet pilot]

Lemonade stand aint too bad

[hasty grail]

to be fair DougDoug has been screwing with AI a lot

[fallow fable]

doing surgery with chatgpt next?

[hasty grail]

i enjoyed some of his earlier content with semi crowd control or other twitch interacting with him

[cobalt hornet]

so the thunder dome was disassembled?

[hasty grail]

yup

[brittle rune]

Yes, it was always meant to be temporary

[winged knoll]

Less bread for mods

[cobalt hornet]

well good that it was set ablaze with all the words left inside yelling for help

[snow salmon]

Im almost certain dougbot wrote that tweet.

[hasty grail]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-bread-meme-googly-eyes-lick-gif-4828919955563198017

[spark tide]

Does anyone know if Thor playing "The beginners guide" has been saved anywhere? I think its before he multistreamed. So the twitch vod im almost certain is gone. I have tried looking myself, but cant find anything. So in the small chance I just haven't found it, im asking here. 🙏 I think it would be very interesting to hear his thoughts while he was playing it.

[indigo wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/ahhhh-its-wednesday-my-dudes-mirror-selfie-gif-5446149

[dusky grove]

Did he play that on stream? I always thought that he played that on his own time like the rest of wanderstop

[hard jackal]

Unfortunately is was not saved and is not available. The Beginner's Guide was last streamed 03/Jun/2019. So yes, it's gone.

Gone.

No

[indigo wadi]

No

K

[opaque raven]

the color of your name is by far the most beautiful one I've ever seen here!! 🩵 🩷