streamchat

[stone prairie]

If people can't agree on what the initiative means or wants, I really can't wait to see how the organizers present their case to the commission.

[wet storm]

You know what now I have fomo

I'mma make a coffe right now

[nova bough]

licenses and product support goes outside of gaming, which makes things interesting.

[indigo wadi]

i'm saying, if the aim is to change the licensing thing, then that's not how the initiative is worded.

[outer cobalt]

Gonna be a clusterf

[worthy ivy]

"If you don't have an alternative to our solution, but you are against our solutions, then you are against all solutions" is how you get 25 years of war somewhere (edited for politics)

[outer cobalt]

Thor should live stream the proceedings

[agile bear]

This much bad writing causing this much discourse without direct language is shitty

[rose echo]

Hey @jolly sky you were looking for proper debate, right? There was someone here earlier who was up for that, if you'd like to try to engage with em

[outer cobalt]

Cant imagine how the actual proposal would look

[idle hill]

"Think of it like a vacation from your normal work. You don't even have to do anything, just pass it bro."

[wet storm]

Touchy political take but I can't deny it was brain-dead for Ross to say that

[nova bough]

this is why i think the ECL is gonna go " ??? " snf just throw it out. but use lawyer/corporate speak to convey the "??? "

[jolly prism]

There will be at least one live hearing but most of the proceedings are usually not televised.

[worthy ivy]

yeah, have edited, was so obviously politics I don't think I'd have gotten away with it

[outer cobalt]

Tbrh thats what i fully expect

[outer cobalt]

Sad

[rose echo]

The initiative technically contradicts itself, and also assumes the FAQ will be relevant, while it won't be from what I've heard. Apologies if I've been misinformed about that.

[jolly sky]

Honestly, I'm pretty much done. There's only so many times I can talk to a brick wall with not even a single flake of mortar being moved.

[rose echo]

Understandable, have a nice day

[steep surge]

hold up, he actually said that?

[wet storm]

Gamer debate lesgo

Daemons's Souls or Dark Souls?

[umbral gazelle]

League of legends isnt a bad game /s

[jolly sky]

Yes. Literally on video.

[worthy ivy]

in the words of the legendary Bob Fossil - "let's g-g-g-goooooo!!!!!"

[misty umbra]

that's why Ross says "reasonable", is giving space to devs and companies work on it as much as they can, considering limitations may have.
Where do you assume is deviation? just have to be work around and be solved will all parties involved

[steep surge]

lmao so we're not allowed to criticise his proposals if we haven't thought up a different solution?
That's just insane

[idle hill]

update on breakfast btw
i ordered online and got the biscuits and gravy

[worthy ivy]

one man's garbage is the next man's treasure, one man's reasonable is another man's madness

[wet storm]

You could argue that last bit means someone bound to paid licenses is unable to comply and therefore exempt

[umbral gazelle]

if you are not with me you are against me!

https://tenor.com/view/anakin-star-wars-sad-crying-skywalker-gif-12607558

[wet storm]

But people aren't ready for an optimistic take

[rose echo]

Will the sought after laws be defined or vague? If the former - what will they look like? If the latter, that raises many issues, as we see with cases like what constitutes hate speech in the UK.

[outer cobalt]

Bringing american thinking to europe smh

[jolly sky]

Here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEVBiN5SKuA&t=112s

[nova bough]

im not an optimist when it comes to government

[steep surge]

not only that but we should accept shitty solutions if we can't think of better ones? Hell nah

[steep surge]

Oh, I dunno if my anger levels can take watching this but thank you

[jolly prism]

We are killing games here, no time for optimism

[worthy ivy]

oi! as a UK'er that offends me... I shall summon the dibble to go arrest you! /j

[wet storm]

On the scale of pessimistic outlook there's the distance between the earth and the friggin sun when it comes to a law Vs a company's EULA

[jolly sky]

It's time stamped to just before the beginning of that quote

[wet storm]

At least for me

[steep surge]

oh, you are a saint

[wet storm]

Maybe I'm secretly a filmmaker's plant

Kill all games so we can watch telly

[idle hill]

I am not watching a balding man explain to me, a gamer, how gamer law works
I would rather watch a roach who games in his closet 24/7 explain that to me

[misty umbra]

**The initiative does not seek to acquire ownership of said videogames, associated intellectual rights or monetization rights, neither does it expect the publisher to provide resources for the said videogame once they discontinue it while leaving it in a reasonably functional (playable) state.
**
👍 just to continue what u mentioned.

[rose echo]

<@&362005405901127710> I'm fairly certain this is not okay (apologies if it is!)

[worthy ivy]

some of the sub-channels have commisions sections you might want to check out?

[main ruin]

yeah just a bot

was looking at the other screen

[idle hill]

oop nuked as I went to put up the caution symbol

[azure glen]

Looking at the other screen? How dare you

[umbral gazelle]

there was obviously bread on the other screen

[cold glade]

I see this thrown around alot so I doublechecked.The proposal, by definition, can be so specific it includes a draft legal act

https://citizens-initiative.europa.eu/how-it-works/faq_en#Getting-the-initiative-registered

"additional information, for example a draft legal act (to be uploaded – max. 5 MB"

[umbral gazelle]

it was to tempting

[worthy ivy]

it's happening!!! the bots are hiring people to do captcha's and that?!?

skynet, woooo! let's go!!!!!!!!!

[wet storm]

Dead internet theory

Maybe I'm a bot

[steep surge]

I don't have the sub emotes but insert PETTHEMODS here

[umbral gazelle]

so 5mb thats about 2.5 million words.

[wet storm]

Have you seen my takes on LLM?

[umbral gazelle]

which is plenty

[jovial sandal]

And people reuploading movies to youtube posting "I do not own this movie, I am not attempting to claim copyright" totally aren't infringing copyright... right? I mean, just saying a thing means thats how reality is, correct?

[worthy ivy]

and there's me trying to be all helpful "durr hurrr why don't you check commisions..."

[shy mist]

Eye in the sky on my experience on this chat:

An extremely energetic interaction between two sides of an argument (in favor of the initiative as written/not in favour of it as written).

One side composed of people that either already signed and can't take it back, or can't sign.

The other composed of people that can't sign or will never be convinced to do so as written.

Both sides comforting their own emotional distress about the uncertainty of what will happen through dialog that will not change the outcome of the signing they are discussing about.

I don't have a goal with this statement, just there's something compellingly absurd about it for me

[worthy ivy]

owned by a bot

[jolly sky]

So yea between that quote, and considering that Ross has openly stated that he doesn't think some games should be allowed to be made in the way that they are made, and his refusal to budge on any wording of the Initiative, I can't sum up any good vibes for it.

[worthy ivy]

sadgeness and shame

[idle hill]

Get quick bucks: solve captcha for bots!! $0.02 per hour, APPLY NOW!! 🤑
-# for legal reasons this is a joke

[wet storm]

It's the human need to be heard

I'm in this chat cos it's entertaining

Like actually fun

[dawn valve]

"When I hear criticisms of our plan I ask what's the alternative solution that saves video. If someone has an alternative cool but if somebody does not but is against our solution then they're against all solutions and deductivly means they are in favor for the destruction of games"

[faint rapids]

Rossman > that ross man

[dusky grove]

that's some "can't believe you hate pancakes" logic right there

[misty umbra]

Initiative could have much more details? YES
Means is vague? NO
Initiative is totally understandable and arguments are clear: YES

[rose echo]

We, as human beings, process better via communication, which conversation with others offers. It's why keeping a diary helps, even if it's just for yourself and no one else.

[steep surge]

Oh, I'm 100% with everything you said so far
I was there at the livestream a year ago when it came up the very first time and it didn't rub me the right way from the beginning

[jolly sky]

Do you not see how that doesn't make any sense?

[nova bough]

it all comes down to trust to lawmakers and them having input in an initiative that is very vauge - and them finding what is anti consumer, and taking action to help both the consumer and not put in undue burden on indie devs.

[worthy ivy]

yeah, it's like an unbridgable chasm

and there's a handful of people using the really rickety rope bridge to go from one side to the other

but it can't take the weight of everyone on both sides

we need to build a better bridge

[dusky grove]

the fact that there is a debate on "this is what's gonna happen" "no its not, this is what's gonna happen" is already proof that it's too vague

[idle hill]

It's clear in the sense that it applies to all videogames, which unfortunately the implications are that it would ask multiplayer games to provide something, do more work to make their game compliant, or shut down altogether

[dusky grove]

if people can come to "misunderstandings" its too vague

[dawn valve]

Ross has alot of logic similar to this that explains why there's been so much conflict around this.
Very wild language behind this

[rose echo]

Also it's much easier to break down things and understand them, when putting multiple minds together, so long as it's done within reason (obviously disruption would be disruptive instead..)

[faint rapids]

Link for whoever late

[umbral gazelle]

imaging you know putting the FAQ in there... just a thought xP

[jolly sky]

I'm glad that you can hopefully see how insane that language and mindset is

[agile bear]

Imagine the corporate backed lobbying that will happen if this initiative takes off. Oof guys. Pls think broadly as well.

[wet storm]

@worthy ivy I've reached the final boss of my side quest

[cold glade]

Not even saying the initiative is bad here! Just that comms are misleading!
From a quick read they didn't even propose a legally binding resolution.

"it is essential to define the specific ‘legal act of the Union’ you want the European Commission to propose
You can propose either binding legislation or a non-binding act, such as a Recommendation. "

[jolly sky]

#streamchat message

Quote about alternatives, timestamped

[wet storm]

And filter

[nova bough]

you have where this is?

"it is essential to define the specific ‘legal act of the Union’ you want the European Commission to propose
You can propose either binding legislation or a non-binding act, such as a Recommendation. "

i want to screencap it

[misty umbra]

imo is better SKG, than get surely a future where all games to be all destroyed and gamers having 0 ownership rights

[toxic rampart]

Do you wanna summon real industry shills? Because this will be how you summon real industry shills lol.

[cold glade]

Yup! Its the first place you would check for writing an ECI
https://citizens-initiative-forum.europa.eu/document/how-draft-initiative-legal-requirements-and-practical-advice_en

[nova bough]

excellent, ty

[worthy ivy]

nice, real coffee...
I can't be trusted with real coffee - I drink around 10 cups/day (instant)
if I drank 10 cups of real coffee I'd probably be in hospital! 🙂

[wet storm]

I used to drink instant when I was in the UK

But I was a madlad

[umbral gazelle]

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

[wet storm]

Made espresso powder into lattes

SUPERCHARGE

[idle hill]

CORPORATE ARTSTYLE AAAA

[idle hill]

Aint no way

[umbral gazelle]

yes way

[nova bough]

SKG is used as an example

[faint rapids]

Even when I wine I'm the best cellar

[dusky grove]

that's probably because of the recent buzz and not any measure of quality

can't believe ECI is drama farming this too /j

[wet storm]

Quest complete

[boreal flower]

needs more coffee

[tranquil crest]

I wish everyone in the community the best! Good luck to everyone!

[wet storm]

I brought the entire thermos with me

[boreal flower]

nice

[idle hill]

bro left just like that

[umbral gazelle]

did you know a cup will always be half full cause if it was half empty it would mean 50% of it would be a vacum which would then instantly detonate the cup and fling its contents everywhere

[dusky grove]

I've been coffee free for a while, but I have like 1 cups worth that I could prepare right now

and I am tempted

[wet storm]

LOL

[nova bough]

lol....just...lol

[idle hill]

My cup is always full, that's why I pick it up expecting a drink and only get air

[jovial sandal]

and yet, when you read the objective for SKG, its literally missing the thing that section of the instructions is trying to illustrate

[wet storm]

Psh, check out this one

Can't even drink air

[jovial sandal]

There's no Act being recommended, just a "solve this problem for us"

[nova bough]

man that flies inthe face of what everyone is saying about "its not on us to figure out what to do, thats EU"

[faint rapids]

Just got NMS 2 days ago if anyone wants to hang out for a few sessions

[umbral gazelle]

doesnt this mean it will just default not pass...

[nova bough]

yep, thats how im reading it.

[cold glade]

Yuppp, highly recommend reading a few other initiatives because they get pretty detailed in terms of action

[boreal flower]

or maybe they'll ask that it be properly written and resubmitted for another signing?

[umbral gazelle]

https://tenor.com/view/sealyx-naked-gun-the-naked-gun-facepalm-facepalm-meme-gif-11743768702765397589

[indigo wadi]

I really need to stop discussing this stuff outside of this server. Can't have any type of a discussion without it resorting into mudslinging against Thor.

[umbral gazelle]

then Thor can single handedly kill it agian! xP

[cold glade]

Afaik that window already happened, which is why people can sign now

[umbral gazelle]

i have tried

i just say claims require evidence extordinary claims require extrodinary evidence.

[dusky void]

From the legal point of view wouldnt that make all the current votes invalid if you will change the language of the initiative?

[umbral gazelle]

no one can show any conversation dies

[azure glen]

You're probably better off asking in #gaming_general If you can't see it, get the play video games role in id:customize

[indigo wadi]

the "false dmca" stuff was brought up again, along with a couple of videos of other "lawyers" saying Thor lied.

[boreal flower]

does it really do that if you clarify after it's been signed?

[umbral gazelle]

i saw that. i looked into it it wasnt a false DCMA Thor has the right to send DMCA claims on his own content if people use it for their own gain.

[wet storm]

See this is exactly what I meant with misinformation but not out of malice

[indigo wadi]

oh i know and provide evidence of that. Met with "nah, it's a false dmca bro"

[wet storm]

An invalid ECI doesn't reach signature status

It's invalidated before then

[umbral gazelle]

TLDR someone made a game where they stole Thors voice from his livestream/videos Thor send a DMCA claim as he is entitled to do people got mad saying he abused the system

[toxic rampart]

Trust me bro. I know. I'm Thor himself Bro.

[wet storm]

"The ECI doesn't propose anything lmao so if it passes nothing happens 'cos it's written wrong" isn't real

Because if that were true it wouldn't reach signature stage

[idle hill]

How dare you protect your voice, don't you know it isn't unique? AI can recreate it perfectly, just ignore that weird buzzing and the voice cracks!

[wet storm]

The problem with this is that some of y'all just said it like it was complete absolute truth when it is objectivelly incorrect

[umbral gazelle]

interestingly enough EU is currently trying to pass legistration protecting your voice and face and own likeness from being used with AI

So you can use AI to be Thor for example without it being a crime.

[indigo wadi]

and yet the US is passing a ban on AI regulation for 10 years

[misty umbra]

**If I pay hard earned money for a game, I absolutely do not want anyone to take it away from me or destroy it. **
I'm confident about it "must happen", I can tell that, I bet a lot of gamers feel the same way and is a legit request it, is even common sense, and will be legally fought. 👍
And, yea, I wish the best to all parties, not only gamers, I do not want neither devs or companies being abused. But for now, we now gamers re losing, and losing hard.

[umbral gazelle]

ofc Microsoft and its friends just gave them money to do it like everything else...

[idle hill]

Then make sure in the terms that you are buying the game and not a license to it
it's that simple

[wet storm]

There's no need to facepalm, that part is not true

It doesn't "not pass by default" because it "didn't state objectives"

If it does someone's head is gonna roll in the EU cabinet Napoleon style

[umbral gazelle]

yea but if it doesnt fill the requirements dont the ECI just turn it down?

[worthy ivy]

time to buy some shares in Palantir 🙂

[wet storm]

Like I just said

[stone prairie]

Shocking. Just like the skg drama bros insisting Thor is against skg due to some mystery live service game and reviewed bombed rivals of aether 2 which has a full eol plan...

[wet storm]

It wouldn't've reached signature stage

[wet storm]

Two wrongs don't make a right

[idle hill]

just because the licenses or terms aren't in your favor doesn't mean they discriminate or are predatory against consumers
they're there to protect the publisher's, developer's, and your own ass

[wet storm]

When you cheat after you opponent cheated you get the bad ending

[steep surge]

As a fellow gamer I don't agree with you or the initiative.
Just want to mention that.

[misty umbra]

is not right that "license" because EULA cannot break customer rights (LAW), I explained this here before, and Ross elaborate it better in the video call ""Games as a service" is fraud."

[worthy ivy]

incidentally - wanted to ask this as it's about LOTR and I reckon the chat goblins know stuff about that 🙂

why did Palantir name themselves after the magical orb that makes you evil if you look in it for too long...?

[umbral gazelle]

So the ECI went on to put an initative to the voting stage without it filling the requirement for it...

[prime crest]

You know, it would be really funny if it got completely rejected, and then we had hundreds of youtubers explaining how they missed that information

[brisk sparrow]

Most of us here agree with the idea but not in its current form.

[dusky grove]

this is something everyone agrees on. the problem with SKG is how it's going to be done. It says some things, but those examples are complex and will need a lot more debate than what a few youtubers can do.

I know that the plan is to flesh it out later, but the vagueness of the methods above makes people not want to support it. We just want more details now, but ross keeps insisting that keeping it vague is the point but it also hurts confidence

[misty umbra]

is ok, we do not need to agree, everyone have theirs position

[wet storm]

Proper courteous behaviour is to speak truth in spite of an opponent lying

Else the bad guys win

[elder scaffold]

Also that Thor would benefit from skg failing cuz he's the ''CEO'' of a live service game even tho thor gets paid minimum wage on that role and even tried to get no pay at all

[wet storm]

That one was just twitter drama nonsense

[frosty spear]

Hey can one of you edit this to say help I accidently joined the pirate software community

[wet storm]

Complete madness lol

[prime crest]

I would need to see an example of a different iniciative that did not pass because it missed that policy

[indigo wadi]

he's not the ceo...

[umbral gazelle]

dont all those games also function offline meaning they wouldnt be affected by the initative?

[wet storm]

RoA 2 is already protected by SKG since it has offline mode, AFAIK with LAN

[spring marsh]

"Bad guy" as though we aren't all fighting for the same thing against a common enemy

[idle hill]

Respectfully, Ross can get bent about it
If he doesn't like games licensing services, he doesn't have to play them
He shouldn't abuse the system to force his opinion onto people who do enjoy live service games as they are

[wet storm]

The bad guys here are the bad actors

[elder scaffold]

exactly lol

[wet storm]

That lie to grift

[prime crest]

he works with offbrand, that is what they are referencing

offbrand is supposed to be the first fair publisher so to speak

[elder scaffold]

mhm he's director of strategy, not CEO

[wet storm]

Responding to "we should strive to go with what's factual and truthful" with "yeah but they get to lie how's that fair" is stooping too low

[umbral gazelle]

but he needs his ubislop! how will he survive without it!

[prime crest]

yep

[wet storm]

It's why I'm still in the camp that people showing up to the server shit on Thor for no reason are just dire maul trolls that haven't discovered what grass is

[prime crest]

Ross isn't doing anything wrong either. Let's not turn this into drama too.

[stone prairie]

Also. If current games as a service violated laws via eula or otherwise, we'd see a lot more cases about it...

[wet storm]

Rather than malicious SKG benefactors or w/e

[elder scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/up-is-not-jump-damn-damn-you-damn-you-grass-damn-you-sun-gif-15071462

[umbral gazelle]

i suppose.

think im not educated enough on law to interpret it

[misty umbra]

In a lovely world, the true solution may be companies/devs/publishers let gamers have their paid games to play whenever they want (after EOS giving the chance to people to play the game, or at least the documentation to let customer run the game), but that will never happen, because companies are motivated by profit, not be fair with customers.

[wet storm]

Average twitter troll

[idle hill]

The more I've heard about Ross today the less I respect him
If he wants to preserve games maybe he should've done something about the flaws in his initiative, since he made it clear in the faq he's aware of them

[proud depot]

I've been wanting to defend thor on Reddit cause I've seen literally nobody doing it, but I don't want to be brigaded into negative points

[steep surge]

but also because that's impossible with some games

[spring marsh]

It's just fake internet points, don't let that stop ya

[wind hare]

I wouldn't go near that subject on Reddit. There are groups of people that will just use you as a punching bag. No need

[umbral gazelle]

dont bother reddit is just for hating on people for the sake of hating

[steep surge]

oh I dunno about that
Some people get wild and doxx others

[indigo wadi]

Finally was able to click "do not recommend channel" on actman

[idle hill]

Reddit is a hellfire you do not want to step in

[steep surge]

depends on the subreddit tho

[wet storm]

Reddit is like a smug twitter

Exactly the same but "at least we're not twitter"

[wind hare]

Reddit is 4chan with names

[wet storm]

I remember when Reddit was cool

It still is in some aspects at least

[steep surge]

My reddit has been fine so far
I dunno what subreddits you guys are in

[idle hill]

I don't

[wet storm]

r/aww is still cute

[wind hare]

It still is if you ignore the bad subs

[toxic rampart]

[DELETED] has some pretty hot takes often for sure

[umbral gazelle]

oh yea that [DELETED] person i see them everywhere

[wind hare]

I get all my gaming news from the subs that represent them

[misty umbra]

imo is hard to believe is impossible 100%, and if is the case, industry practices must change and fast, is still not an excuse to break basic customer rights neither

[idle hill]

break consumer rights how
you agreed to the license

[wet storm]

My favourite was when [DELETED] said [deleted]. I was shocked

[indigo wadi]

If you want to change the idea that a game is licensed, then aim for that. Until license is changed, there's always going to be issues

[toxic rampart]

But yeah. Outside of here, I'm looking at this like another simi recent hate train involving gAmErS™
I am not engaging with it for my own sanity.

I wish GamERs spent this much energy on things that actually effect people right this second and tomorrow lol.

[proud depot]

Its funny people have been calling Thor's video on the topic "arrogant" when its well reasoned and thought out

[wet storm]

I think you arrived in the middle of an argument over SKG and what you said mirrors what some trolls have been doing

[misty umbra]

I explained this before, the license is not a valid justification, the LAW is above it, specially in Europe

[wet storm]

@proud depot 's comment was unkind tho

[proud depot]

Thor has never come across as "arrogant" though

[steep surge]

its not even about industry practices. It's for example also about copyright.
And how is discontinuing a game after x years, when it's no longer profitable to offer, breaking basic customer rights? lol

[indigo wadi]

Honestly, I've left one discord server because of it as a result. I'm close to leaving a 2nd, but I'm a mod there, so I just perma-muted the server (it's practically dead anyways)

[idle hill]

But did you still agree to it

[wet storm]

I agree, just poorly timed

Emotions are high rn

[misty umbra]

gamers are not going to get the IPs and make new games, they wanna play the game

[wet storm]

Big text jumpscare

[indigo wadi]

But it is a valid justification because it is a contract.

[proud depot]

Ok that was a bit uncalled for and I sincerely apologize

[jolly crystal]

you can't disagree with the license and still play the game

[indigo wadi]

I'm gonna try and find a quote by action dan, gimme a few

[jolly crystal]

licenses hold games hostage

[misty umbra]

none contract is above the LAW 👍
I can make a contract that says u are my slave, u can sign, but that does not mean you are my slave 🤣

[idle hill]

If you agreed to the license it shows me you did not care enough about the law or did not read it in which case you waive your right to take the company to court over any unlawful business practices

To an extent*

[indigo wadi]

regardless, it does not change the fact that todays games, and even games of yesteryear, are nothing more than licenses. Always have been.

[jolly sky]

That is not something that should be the outcome

[stone prairie]

A tos or eula cannot waiver your rights.

[wet storm]

SKG is not retroactive

[steep surge]

Doesn't matter. You need the rights to host the old game. And you can't force the devs to give up their ip rights.

[wet storm]

Let's stop pretending it is

[toxic rampart]

You should REALLY read what you sign when you get a job with a corporation. Lmao

[indigo wadi]

That's not what i'm arguing

[idle hill]

Correct, the consumer does that themselves

[wet storm]

Then what is it?

[jolly crystal]

except licenses don't show up until after the purchase

[stone prairie]

But also most eula and tos do not violate any laws and are accepted business practices. Otherwise there would be far more lawsuits about it.

[jolly crystal]

eula pops up when you launch a game, not when you buy it

[steep surge]

and that's the irony of it.
WIth your initiative you will increase developing costs and then less games will be developed, resulting in less games overall

[indigo wadi]

I'm pointing out that video games have always been a license to play.

[wet storm]

I think we all agree that the current licensing model is oppressive and are just haggling over price whether SKG is good or bad for it and why

[idle hill]

No joke I took my time reading and understanding my rights and benefits when I applied for the job I have
The entire employee handbook, etc

[jolly crystal]

that's also a funny thing, cuz if something has been one way, it doesn't mean it should ramain so

[indigo wadi]

SKG doesn't really address the core issue of the matter, which is video games are licenses instead of being an owned product.

[jolly sky]

YES. then we don't get Deep Rock Galactic. Helldivers 2. Plenty of other good games.

You should not legally mandate what games can and cannot be made

[wet storm]

Maybe in the last 15 years

[steep surge]

lmao yes it is

[wet storm]

Games existed since way before then

[indigo wadi]

I agree it should be changed.

[dusky grove]

He comes across as authoritative, partly because of his voice which he can't really control, and partly because he speaks with facts first. To some, it reads as pride

[indigo wadi]

Arcade games, license to play. Atari, license to play, Nes, license to play, etc.

[umbral gazelle]

well before than you had arcades that was also license like you paid a few coins for 3 tires worth of gameplay

[wet storm]

You can still find ET cartridges for the Atari sold on ebay and Universal isn't gonna swat you if you sell them

[steep surge]

I dunno, I haven't had a problem with it yet

[idle hill]

My boss asked me if I had finished signing the documents and I had to tell her I was still reading through, it was at least 20 pages of text

[toxic rampart]

Now see that is one thing I do think is absolutely BS.
Sure, they can offer the EULA on a site to be ready before hand, but it requires knowledge of where to look.

Granted, places like steam can let you easily nope out and return the product.
But physically it's absolute BS.

[stone prairie]

Absolutely few people are for killing ga.es after all. But we sure as he'll want a sensible thought out solution vs 'let the old guys making laws decide it all!' Which will just become whatever the industry wants not the consumer.

[indigo wadi]

Does not change the fact that it's still a license to play. It just happens to have a physical form.

[wet storm]

The problem extends beyond what happened to you

[jolly crystal]

that's a totally different kind of issue

lobbyism in politics

[idle hill]

You can read them before you buy too yknow

[jolly crystal]

you can't solve all the problems of society at once

[wet storm]

What?

What license?

[worthy ivy]

software has /always/ been licensed and not sold

basically since forever

[jolly crystal]

and if you want to play the game but disagree with the rules?

[misty umbra]

Why someone would want to kill games? is so hard for me to understand that 😩
we all should fight to keep our beloved games preserved, like for real , I want my kids play the games I am playing today, is that stupid to think that?

[frozen nimbus]

The initiative went up by 8 percent over night

[jolly crystal]

get reckt ig

[frozen nimbus]

Its at 83%

This is not looking good

[idle hill]

Then you get banned or the game is revoked. Simple as

[wet storm]

[jolly crystal]

hilarious

[indigo wadi]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-user_license_agreement#:~:text=The practice of selling licenses to rather,since the 1970s in the United States.&text=The tendency to license proprietary software—to sell,scope of software copyright protection was clear

[stone prairie]

Like it or not, even ECI is a form of lobbyism. And the skg organizers are on the record wanting to throw everything going to the politicians rather than lobby

[steep surge]

You said we all agree, I just mentioned I don't see it that way

[jolly crystal]

yeah cuz lobbying costs a lot of money

[indigo wadi]

I dunno, ask Ross why he wants to restrict a Dev's ability to make games.

[frozen nimbus]

We dont want to kill games either, but this is not a good way to do it

[misty umbra]

I do not mean about PS, i mean any person,
How someone would agree to kill games? I cannot get it guys

[proud depot]

Yeah one thing I can see potentially happening is steam adds a warning to games like tf2 that its an online experience which can end at any time

[dusky grove]

what would he gain from this, exactly? clout?

he doesn't have a live service game that isn't monetized

[late bane]

I don't want the EU involved major laws that would affect other countries after their so called "misinformation/disinformation" laws which try to censor speech. Totally against the SKG initiative on that alone.

[jolly crystal]

that's not relevant to skg?

[indigo wadi]

can be played offline, next

[wet storm]

Alright fair enough

[umbral gazelle]

Why doesnt Ross just clear everything up himself and stop blaming a single person for the entire movements failure. (nom nom troll bait nom nom)

[idle hill]

I dont know where this sentiment comes from that you should be able to ignore any licenses given to you before you play a game, that sounds extremely predatory against company's rights to protect themselves against exploitative customers

[wet storm]

SOME of us agree

[frozen nimbus]

Well it seems drama farming last minute is working

[wet storm]

You win the semantics game

[dusky grove]

that's just a matter of their personalities clashing. you can't force people to like each other.

And sure, maybe they could patch it up but its not worth the time

[toxic rampart]

Totally down with that.
Knowledge and transparency is very powerful for a consumer.

If they bother to look or understand what's said is another thing entirely lol

[frozen nimbus]

I think theres a good chance the initiative gets full votes before the end off July

Let's hope it doesn't get passed

[dusky grove]

the company that pays him minimum wage... because he legally couldn't work for free even if he wanted to

[indigo wadi]

yeah, he made it clear he wants no alternatives and that everyone who doesn't agree with him is against him.

[nova bough]

i think the drama farming inflates it, cause i bet US people are putting in signatures just to make the number go up

[umbral gazelle]

Then whats the problem just move on Thor isnt doing anything to the movement he hasnt done anything for 8 months xD

[umbral gazelle]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-dark-side-anakin-skywalker-darth-vader-revenge-of-the-sith-gif-25702979

[frozen nimbus]

And why should thor talk to him? Ross not once condemned any off the hate waves towards Thor or the community. Why would you want to talk to someone who's doing that?

[dusky grove]

then months later couldn't let it go and dragged him back into the drama whirlpool for more views because thor is big and he has a chip on his shoulder

[stone prairie]

You need to do more research mate.

[jovial sandal]

"respectful" by chopping up his points and presenting them out of order, the presence of some of which negates the points that Ross is trying to make?

[indigo wadi]

I have no reason to talk to Ross, especially when his attitude has been counter to being helpful

[wet storm]

The conflation of a copyright and distribution EULA with reserving the right to pull a game from your account to play semantics has raised my cortisol levels to such a high degree it's made me fully numb

[indigo wadi]

his own video proves this

[frozen nimbus]

It was Ross that said that

???

[umbral gazelle]

https://tenor.com/view/leonardo-dicaprio-laughing-reverse-reverse-card-reverse-uno-gif-3758578067338957449

[indigo wadi]

ty for being insulting, moving on

[frozen nimbus]

Ok lol

Oh really?

[idle hill]

Ignore the troll

[silk scarab]

@late bane don't throw insults (warning)

[stone prairie]

Says the guy you doesn't know the difference in publisher, game company, and positions within each and pay structure lol

[dusky owl]

“This is shit. Not only am I going to not back this I’m going to actively tell people not too.”

[indigo wadi]

now back to my search quest

[lapis flame]

tbf, Ross said in his FAQ video that anyone criticizing the movement needs to provide a solution along with the criticism

[indigo wadi]

said in a moment of anger, which he never acted on.

Wanna stop this gacha attempts?

[misty umbra]

is a good point, would be amazing if they have a discussion together to clarify all , even let Ross clarify all the details to PS

[dusky owl]

I love Myke so much you guys have no idea

[idle hill]

anger which he has since apologized for, even

[indigo wadi]

k?

[silk scarab]

I don't usually discuss in this channel but oh my god that's so incredibly dumb

[stone prairie]

Tweak the movement of which the front man has claimed shalt not be changed for any reason? How would he do that?

[umbral gazelle]

Personally i would not go talk to a person who goes to other big youtubers to start drama smearing me. So why would Thor do it?

[steep surge]

oh wait, Action Dan linked the video with the timestamp earlier!

[frozen nimbus]

Ross has not condemned any off the hate waves towards Thor or the community, so why would Thor want to discuss with him

[lapis flame]

my summary or Ross' stance?

[indigo wadi]

damn it mods, stop banning before I can reply

[steep surge]

#streamchat message

[silk scarab]

no, ross' stance

not you

[brisk sparrow]

I had a reply ready too gdi

[frozen nimbus]

There gonna go complain now saying "pirate software mods are banning me for just talking aboit skg!11"

[indigo wadi]

ya know who else fled to big youtubers to start drama? Yamato 😛

[silk scarab]

it's essentially "only people who are educated enough legally and professionally in game dev to provide an effective solution to all the problems I've made can argue with me"

[indigo wadi]

Ross is the Yamato of SKG

[dusky grove]

oh, is that guy still there, seems he blocked me or smth

[wet storm]

Btw

[wind hare]

Wait, hold on, is Ross from the UK or EU?

[idle hill]

yeah man they're unhinged out in the wild now, I feel bad for the poor horses

[lapis flame]

Ross is from the US

[frozen nimbus]

US i think

[wet storm]

I disagree with the guy and even agree with Matt that it was pretty dumb

[indigo wadi]

he live sin poland currently

[worthy ivy]

what's the point here?

it /is/ a bit shit imo - that's why so many people are arguing about it

I am not backing the UK version myself - and I might tell people I know not to sign it...

what's the issue?

[dusky grove]

american that lives in poland

[wet storm]

But making a circlejerk to hate on Ross makes this chat no better than circlejerks hating on Thor

[stone prairie]

Us, married to someone in Poland?

[thorn pasture]

a major point that seems to often be missed in all this drama is that the petition is asking for NONSPECIFIC governmental intervention in the design and development of all games with a focus on single player games or elements

[wind hare]

How is Ross going to be the voice of a movement in the EU or UK? Who is actually going to represent the movement from those areas?

Why is he even talking

[wet storm]

You need to stay on the highroad to take the highroad

[indigo wadi]

Again, that was said in a moment of anger, of which Thor never acted upon

[dusky grove]

agreed

[steep surge]

yeah and any valid criticism is invalid if you can't pull a better solution out from somewhere
Surely makes for a good space to have a discussion...

[dusky owl]

How is Thor going to be a voice on the movement then?

[stone prairie]

He's not actually on the list of organizers for the ECI amusingly.

[misty umbra]

But PS made the 1st drama at attacking even personally to Ross, isnt it? is not logical Ross to answer that?
Also, considering Ross mentioned that the initiative was misrepresented (I agree with Ross in that point)

[proud depot]

He is American, living in the US i believe

[wind hare]

He isn't

[indigo wadi]

he's not?

[jovial sandal]

He lives in the EU, but he's from the US. That said, he did do a bit of venue shopping for this petition

[lapis flame]

he started the movement and tried getting things going in various countries. For the ECI there are EU citizens listed as initiators.

[steep surge]

I think he lives in Poland now

[frozen nimbus]

He lives in poland

But yes hes from the US

[proud depot]

Oh I wasn't aware

[dusky grove]

He apologized for the attitude, which is the only thing he should apologize for. Everything else is opinions which is fine

[idle hill]

Thor has made it very clear he Does Not want Anything to do with SKG, he just wants the hate wave to stop

[stone prairie]

But Thor, with a most north and south American audience, was the voice to doom it!

[dark kraken]

you are all arguing again??

[indigo wadi]

@jolly sky You know how frustating it is trying to find a specific post when you post so much?

[wet storm]

I agree here

[thorn pasture]

there can be no positive result from buerocratic and goverment overreach in spite of the desire to fix a very real and incredibly harmful practice of the industry

[wet storm]

And I'm pro SKG

[wind hare]

So why aren't they speaking up? This just became obserd. He's not going to be the one representing this to the EU parlement

[proud depot]

I really only watch game dungeon and freeman's mind

[brisk sparrow]

Thor made his video 10 months ago. Why wait until one month before the deadline when it doesn’t have enough signatures?

[dusky grove]

its the internet

[wet storm]

People need to like

Take an entire bottle of chill pills

[dusky owl]

Love reading the delusion in here.

[wet storm]

Like seriously a circlejerk of hate is very cringe

[indigo wadi]

you're free to leave then

[jolly prism]

https://tenor.com/view/ragebait-bait-jojo-jjba-jojo's-bizarre-adventure-gif-11159617522698492937

[umbral gazelle]

im stealing this

[steep surge]

what delusion?

[frozen nimbus]

Im saving this

Dang it i got pre moved

[misty umbra]

the problem is that PS says he did not misrepresented ,but Ross is telling the opposite.
So that's why some people says if they both chat they may solve the possible misunderstanding

[wet storm]

Could we not call someone brain damaged?

[idle hill]

yoink

[stone prairie]

Hi. Welcome. Feel free to present t your case in a reasonable and logical manner.

[frozen nimbus]

Yes ^

[wet storm]

Jesus guys can you behave or what?

[indigo wadi]

Thor went through it, as it is worded, presented it from a Dev perspective. Ross can say whatever he wants, doesn't mean Thor actually did what Ross claimed

[idle hill]

Absolutely!

[frozen nimbus]

Rage bait part off the meme was funny 😔

[proud depot]

He made 1 video 10 months ago cause people kept asking for his opinion on it while he was streaming. People have been dogpiling on him ever since cause ross never put any actual momentup behind his campaign

[frozen nimbus]

Ok rage bait or uninformed

[wet storm]

(I'm totally saving that gif btw)

[indigo wadi]

can we? Yes, will we? Debatable

[dusky owl]

I buy a game. I want to own the game. I deserve to play the game the rest of my life in some sort of functional state as advertised.

[umbral gazelle]

https://tenor.com/view/metal-gear-rising-the-memes-memes-raiden-look-up-gif-16560167

[dusky owl]

https://tenor.com/view/michael-jackson-comendo-picoca-gif-9669437860846841235

Continue talking

[frozen nimbus]

Yeah so do we

[wind hare]

I have been reading this for a day now, and everyone keeps talking about Ross like he's the movements head. He doesn't even live there. He could be represented as a foreign actor mettling in the affairs of another state. Why is this even still a thing?

[steep surge]

hypocrite!

[idle hill]

Guys stop laughing

[frozen nimbus]

This initiative, isnt the way to do it

[indigo wadi]

seriously, i'm on page 17 of trying to find a specific post of Action Dan

[serene valley]

Danposting

[lapis flame]

hes the driving force behind the overall initiative, which extends beyond the EU. Its likely all other avenues they tried so far have failed and thus the ECI is the last one that can succeed. So hes trying to get it through. The others dont have the kind of platform that Ross has.

[dusky grove]

this is thor going "This is my interpretation" and ross going "these are the facts"

Whichever one you believe depends on how vague or specific the wording of SKG is.

[brisk sparrow]

Most of us here like the idea behind skg, but the movement in its current form is not the way to do it.

[misty umbra]

Ross says that PS exposure made the campaign lost signal, is in one of his videos

[worthy ivy]

I know thor said that in a moment of anger and didn't act on it

I am not - I am saying it now, in a moment of reflection and wondering why it would be an issue if thor had acted on it anyway?

we not allowed to encourage people to not do things now?
does the internet get to dictate what thor is and isn't 'allowed' to encourage?
does the internet get to dictate what I am and am not 'allowed' to encourage?

drama-farmers get to come in here and ask us to sign up to SKG but I can't tell someone not to?

makes no sense

[jovial sandal]

Except that it isnt what's advertised. It states that you have a revokable license for the game, not permanent ownership.

[indigo wadi]

Ross can't really claim them as facts though, imo

[wind hare]

it's for the UK and EU. Both of which he is not a member of

[wet storm]

https://tenor.com/view/subida-gif-18379274

[dawn valve]

As I'm watching more of roses other videos I think it's very easy for Ross to make claims of misunderstanding when alot of his logic is backwards or contradictory.
Also Ross is really passive aggressive in his tweets and went around to other YTers to fuel into drama. Not sure I'd want to talk to Ross either.

[stone prairie]

Kk, how much are you willing to pay since the code for that will increase cost? And should every game be that way? So no more live service games which rely on things companies can't surrender at end of life for example.

[dusky grove]

SKG right now is like using mexican salsa to make spaghetti. It's kinda going in the right way but it's not quite there

[lapis flame]

He can still say "this is a good idea".

[steep surge]

I agree with you
It's been weird

[indigo wadi]

as for what im trying to find, Dan did a longish post about ip/copyright that I wanna save to notepad so I can throw it up whenever ip/copyright about SKG comes in

[serene valley]

Pretty sure I've made spaghetti with mexican salsa as a base for the sauce before

[wind hare]

Would everyone be taking this situation the same way if this was a citizen of Pakastan trying to change the law in Brazil?

[serene valley]

Or at least a pasta dish

[dusky grove]

I meant like full chunks, not squished to release the juices

[steep surge]

you can also specifically search for post from him that mention IP. no?

[indigo wadi]

who knows at t his point

[worthy ivy]

anyone tells me what I can and cannot say online can eat my entire ass

[jolly prism]

That is a bit of a stretch from what SKG is asking for. They are talking about end of life playability, not developers supporting a game that does not make them any money anymore for 50 years to come.

[misty umbra]

ok I see what u mean, however honestly I see Ross as a chill guy, did not think about this "passive aggressive" stuff

[lapis flame]

believe it or not, a good idea can be a good idea in many countries at the same time.

[wet storm]

Lots of members in that fail to see the irony that shitting on Ross is like other communities shitting on Thor, and attack the guy when they're bored of attacking the guys ideas because quite frankly I think peopel are tired of arguing the same thing

[indigo wadi]

but then i'd have to start my search over and im on page 21 lol

[wet storm]

I don't blame'em (for being tired that is), new members haven't been talking about this for two weeks and are bringing the same takes

[dusky grove]

And one thing the hecklers don't realize is that the more people tell you to do something, the less you want to do it. The more people tell thor to "just apologize and have a talk with ross" the less he wants to do it.

How many times have you delayed washing the dishes because someone told you "Hey it's your turn to wash the dishes."

[green plank]

i just get weird stalker bf vibes from ross, "hey ill stop sending all these people to harass you if you speak to me 🤬"

[umbral gazelle]

Im in favor of all software developers who make profit off their code to send the first and last version of their sourcecode to an archive where it is stored until it enteres the public domain. That way software can become like every other art and technological advancement humanity makes. Instead of just deleting their things when they are done. Would this be costly? Probably but it would create a cool software archive you could employ people at. And frankly i think this would be a worthwhile use of all the money we waste as a society.

[dawn valve]

I think alot of the conflict stems from ppl see roses chill vibes and see Thor as authoritative and they take that however they want to without regard to biasis

[green plank]

he seems like a freak kinda

[steep surge]

The only help I can give you is that that specific discussion was on the 26th of June I think

[indigo wadi]

themore I'm nagged, the more I put it off

[wet storm]

He never said this?!?

[green plank]

it is implied

[frigid crown]

bro what

[green plank]

by omission

[proud depot]

Any argument against pirate software kind of lost the plot at about the time a few people started claiming thor wanted to screw the ferrets

[indigo wadi]

that give sme a date at least, ty

[wet storm]

Dude for the love of god

[jolly prism]

Kendo really likes walking the plank it seems.

[wet storm]

🤦‍♂️

[idle hill]

Just like how I told the guy this morning that said "I hope you all have a very nice day", that I would intentionally choose to have a bad day

[wet storm]

Ok I can't

Catcha guys later

[indigo wadi]

lets not accuse Ross of weird vibes plz

[stone prairie]

Kendo with a take as hot as a horse crap pile.

[green plank]

hey im gonna make a vid, drop thors name, let a ton of people drama vid, then comment "hey its getting sigs up"

[wet storm]

Chat sucks rn

[umbral gazelle]

okay i dont blame you xD

[green plank]

what do you think that means

silly

[indigo wadi]

this is a UK one and they said they won't make any changes

[worthy ivy]

but.... I... erm....
how would...?

burn the internet... it's all over

[dusky grove]

this has devolved into namecalling. Chat, behave

[indigo wadi]

christ, what is with these deepfried Thor images

[wind hare]

Who said "they will not make changes"? a member of parliament?

[misty umbra]

UK will open a case?

[idle hill]

he hasn't heard of a-
no, no I won't say it.

[dusky grove]

I know I'm guilty of this too. I'm telling yall to stop

[indigo wadi]

like why??

[dawn valve]

That's just what he looks like

[lapis flame]

that looks well fried

[idle hill]

thats just Thor on a good day

[indigo wadi]

there was a remark on the UK petition

[stone prairie]

Needs more pixels

[steep surge]

Is coming in here and posting the amount of signatures the new ragebait now?

[worthy ivy]

par for the course - if you 'aint greasing the wheels you 'aint getting anything passed - you gots to know who to pay before you get to play

rookie error from UK SKG there

[stone prairie]

Probably.

[misty umbra]

so why the 100 000 signatures? im confused

[indigo wadi]

ive done it a few times but not as ragebait

[hollow radish]

If you're enraged by the opinion of 100,000 people who want their government to consider a set of reforms to unfair business practices that says a lot about you

[indigo wadi]

🤷‍♂️

[wind hare]

thats amazing, and this was months ago. I hope Jack saw that before his post about it

[dusky grove]

no? who dafuq would think that

[dark kraken]

unfair business practices??

[idle hill]

First off, define unfair business practice

[worthy ivy]

100,000 is the threshold for a UK petition - there's only 70 million of us, lot less than in europe

[languid ether]

am i crazy or is there no stream today

[hollow radish]

Sorry, perceived** Unfair business practices

[idle hill]

There is no stream today

[south valley]

What’s the drama I keep hearing about Pirate Software?

[shadow dawn]

It is wednesday, my dude

[stone prairie]

It's Wednesday, Thor is off today and tomorrow

[indigo wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/ahhhh-its-wednesday-my-dudes-mirror-selfie-gif-5446149

[dusky grove]

wed and thursday are days off

[worthy ivy]

yes

[steep surge]

I have just seen a lot of people proudly come in and state "it's at X thousand signatures now"
Kinda seems like a thing to rile people up in here

[misty umbra]

can we see the process online? like will be a trial, how is ?

[dusky grove]

people mad he disagrees with them and thus trying to use anything to get him mad

[languid ether]

ahh thank you, i thought it was just thursdays, never been around for a wednesday lol

[frozen nimbus]

Wait so does this like completely null the initiative?

[south valley]

He’s trying to destroy SKG or something?

[idle hill]

shoot where's the zentreya meme about how she doesnt stream on wednesdays

[ruby wave]

Side note, the initiative is also beneficial to publishers who run these bloody games

[umbral gazelle]

what a surprise the house of lords doenst care. UK democracy is a joke. The monarch can still veto shit which is absurd.

[indigo wadi]

honestly, no idea, but that's how I read it

[frozen nimbus]

Interesting

[ruby wave]

they can still sell copies of their games that they personally stop supporting

[south valley]

I don’t want to rely on YouTube videos for this, just curious. Disagreement over what exactly?

[dusky grove]

depends on tone. if it's respectable its fine. if its gloating in a "You can't stop us, you losers" kind of thing then ofc you're gonna get the boot

[indigo wadi]

OMG, THERE'S A BIGGER RESPONSE

[stone prairie]

The UK is not part of the EU. The UK initiative has no bearing on the ECI

[proud depot]

originally it was just thursdays (or "Thor's days" if you will) but he added wednesday to have more time for errands

[worthy ivy]

this chat is SKG quarantine so you're in the right place 🙂

[indigo wadi]

To be able to fit it in an SS

[proud depot]

holy wall of text batman!

[dusky void]

oof the compression

[toxic rampart]

https://tenor.com/view/no-pixels-cant-see-ben-chang-community-ken-jeong-gif-17361588

[idle hill]

Nah he put out his interpretation of it, gave an example of how it could harm the industry if put into law, and didn't talk about it for 10 months until people started a witch hunt against him, where he restated his opinion after apologizing for the rudeness in which he put it out originally

[stone prairie]

I also haven't looked into the UK i itiative process so no clue how that works for them

[indigo wadi]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/702074/ can read it here

[misty umbra]

CINEMA.MP4

[proud depot]

you have a link to the response?

[jovial sandal]

by... not taking any actions for more than 10 months

[south valley]

I double checked that this chat was for this type of conversation. I just don’t get it. I’m not for nor against it. I’m just against bad publishers and such who don’t let developers make good games

[wind hare]

So they don't get a representative from the movement? They are just going to take exactly what was sent to them and consider just that, correct?

[dusky grove]

Thor saw SKG and didn't like it. Used some foul language to the movement's founder ross. Thor recently apologized for the language but has not retracted his view on the topic as a whole.

Ross wants to have a private talk but thor isn't receptive (personally I side with thor here. Walking away is the more mature option IMO).

People are now trying to use anything they can to bring thor down because "he's killing games and being a smartass about it"

[shadow dawn]

Most of us agree with you on this

[worthy ivy]

it's pretty complicated - there's been much disagreement and many different takes on it over the last couple days - I'd say have a read of some of the stuff posted earlier, but that'll take you all day...

[stone prairie]

Hilariously the same reason Thor is now working for Offbrand Games

[indigo wadi]

Isn't Ross against talking with Thor now? or am i imaging that?

[steep surge]

So far it's been mostly from new users. And I dunno, just jumping in here and the first thing to say, even with the topic not being SKG, saying "It's at X signatures" just comes across as gloating and ragebait-y

[worthy ivy]

has been busy in streamchat of latre

*late

[lapis flame]

if someone has a lot of money, they could sue a dev or publisher under existing consumer protection laws over the discontinuation of a game and see where that goes.

[dusky grove]

no clue, haven't kept up on that part. it's honestly the least important thing about this whole mess

its 2 people and their emotions. they can sort it out themselves, not my problem

[frosty spear]

Fine I did it myself

[misty umbra]

hi there, nice 2 meet u, this is my most honest take in this matter,
I just want the games dont die

[idle hill]

Gonna throw this in the ring while it's on my mind

!skg

[dapper raven]

You can see my nearly year old videos about this here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioqSvLqB46Y and here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3jMKeg9S-s Make sure to read the pinned FAQ on the first video. Everything I wanted to say has already been said here.

[toxic rampart]

The tldr "Bro we already cover this"

[stone prairie]

Wait, the UK govt already responded so will they actually debate this?

[idle hill]

pay attention to what he is saying and not how he is saying it, VERY important

[south valley]

Yet Thor himself is a developer who wants to put out games, so he understands the consequences of reputation and what publishers can do. The only bad part about it seems to be the disrespectful language

[indigo wadi]

no? roflmao

[brisk sparrow]

No he isn’t

[frigid crown]

I wouldn't say he's against it going by his replies to thor on twitter. He mentioned that if thor ever does change his mind all his contact info is on his page. I think he has just long ago accepted that the talk probably won't be happening.

[south valley]

Think I get the jist of it. I’m just seeing loads of videos to do with drama on PirateSoftware popping up

[indigo wadi]

there's no misinformtaion

[indigo wadi]

yet Ross' language seems to indicate otherwise, but okay

[toxic rampart]

He's literally said nothing in 10 months. Try again or please stop listening to others spouting things randomly.

[wind hare]

So again, this is driving me crazy. The people who we should be focusing on are the people who are actually going to be talking to their representatives who will represent this issue in the UK. Like Jack COULD have been one but everyone is focusing on Ross. The UK isn't going to reach out to him to explain whats going on, so his opinion is voided at this point. Who are they actually going to talk to? The rep in this video mentions the people they represent

[dusky grove]

by not talking about it for 10 months and encouraging people to "do their own research and make their own opinion"

[dusky grove]

agreed.

[livid path]

Pinã colada sounds nice

[dusky grove]

but i don't wanna get caught in the rain

[idle hill]

I just had a caramel frosty cream cold brew, pretty nice

[dusky grove]

10 months ago

[livid path]

👌

[dusky grove]

again... 10 months ago

[hollow radish]

I feel like this drama all boils down to 4 groups of people.

1. People who think regulations should be put in place to stop games from having their content made inaccessible by devs/publishers/owners/etc who want to restrict use of their IP but not continue to do the work to make that IP accessible to consumers who believed they paid for perpetual access

2. People who disagree with group 1 and think that games should be treated as a service which can be discontinued, regardless of how the game was advertised at the time of sale

3. People who are also in group 1, but care more about being right and dunking on people from group 2, lowering themselves to personal attacks rather than civil discussion

4. people from group 2 who can't tell group 1 and group 3 apart and attack people who don't deserve it because they think anyone in group 1 agrees with the rhetoric used by group 3.

Thor belongs to group 4 on a bad day and group 2 on a good day but he flip flops between them on stream

[indigo wadi]

he addresses points from a dev perspective of why it's current form is bad

[steep surge]

almost a year ago
when he was asked for his opinion about it

[south valley]

Knowing people they almost follow a hive mind driven by political agendas or people behind it.

[indigo wadi]

as a reference point

[toxic rampart]

My block list grows.

[indigo wadi]

stop moving the goalposts, holy

[dusky grove]

only when asked. It's not an automatic message. Truthfully I didn't even know the command existed until a few days ago

[stone prairie]

Gonna be honest. It was SKG drama bros throwing this around again the last couple weeks even reminded me it still existed... I'd completely forgotten in the last 9 months which says more about the SKG ability to keep themselves relevant than anything.

[dusky owl]

wyd if you were driving and you look out your window and saw Ross

[south valley]

This guy blocked me even though I completely don’t even get the drama fully nor what was said.
A joke

[steep surge]

after this drama started, yes
because hundreds of people came in, asking for his opinion again so they made the command

[indigo wadi]

"thor, whats your stance on skg?" "here's my 2 videos on it"

[indigo wadi]

well I don't drive, so nothing

If I did? nothing

[steep surge]

because it didn't
I think it was set-up when this new wave of hate started

[indigo wadi]

Ross is a person and I leave ppl alone. Like a sane person

[worthy ivy]

me too, have been ignoring them - I avoid drama on the TV, why do I want it on youtube? 🙂 but the thumbnails are a good source of cursed pictures thor for #thorchan

[green plank]

actually tbf, i dont consider him a person (:

[dusky grove]

bruh no

[frigid crown]

Bruh

[green plank]

bruh :0

how could you say that kendo

:O

[south valley]

And honestly, here’s my opinion on it.

The best stance about bad games is to stop giving bad developers money and they’ll change approach.
Support good devs. There’s no need for all of this if we just don’t buy those games nor play time

[misty umbra]

LOL XD

[wary lotus]

Basically the gist of it:

1. Ross made the SKG movement.
2. Thor said he won't sign the petition, cause he is from the US and CANNOT even do it.
3. Thor said he doesn't like the wording and gave reasons why it can damage games as a whole.
4. People - in order to get rage clicks and farm drama - slander Thor.
5. Insane people start talking nonsense about Thor.

10 months pass

6. Ross, who made the SKG movement noticed he is still only 50% there. Makes a video where for a large portion he slanders Thor. Again.
7. People pick it up and farm drama.
8. Thor is attacked by haters who don't care about the SKG movement, but are using it to justify being terrible to Thor.
9. Thor apologized to Ross for being mean to him, but golds his opinion.

People are just still slandering Thor, cause they are farming drama.

[worthy ivy]

drama-llamas farmin' drama

[toxic rampart]

Calling me a joke is a good reason to block someone~

And I did so prematurely because of the amount of people coming in here baiting with " I promise I just wanna ask questions".
Which Is my bad.
I'm glad you are here to actually discuss things.

[wary lotus]

Thor is not against game preservation - and explicitly stated so.
But Drama Farmers don't care what is true - there is money to be made.

[jolly crystal]

glossed over a little part with the "eatign ass"

[dusky grove]

its also not the devs that kill these games anyway. its the publishers. The devs just gotta do their job

[wary lotus]

Read 9)

[south valley]

Sounds just like the internet.
I never even signed it. I just don’t want to give my full name and email to them. If they want they can make a ballet for it instead

[jolly crystal]

don't matter

[hollow radish]

It's important to note that in stage 3 Thor misrepresented the movement and didn't issue a correction about it

[jolly crystal]

shoulda just not done it

[worthy ivy]

if that offends you to the point where you think all this brigading and drama farming is justifed....?

I'm sorry, you can eat my entire ass

[steep surge]

its on twitter as far as I know

[jolly crystal]

you show me how first

[idle hill]

What, not give his opinion, which he was asked for, by the very same people that are attacking him for it?

[south valley]

That’s what I also originally said. Bad publishers.
I dislike Activision the most honestly

[lapis flame]

"nobody can ever make mistakes" - you, it sounds like.

[hollow radish]

Brigading isn't justified, but not all dissenters are brigaders

[worthy ivy]

well we have to work out a price first

[wind hare]

Negative ghostrider, he doesn't actually represent any of the movements in the EU or UK, we just went over this. Where is his proposal in the USA where he can legally represent the interests of this movement? There isn't one. So why are people making him the center piece of this?

[dusky owl]

Hey there’s insane people talking about Ross too

[indigo wadi]

Because he put it forward and promoted it?

[hasty grail]

i hope your day goes well

[jolly crystal]

lmaooo

[wary lotus]

So?
Both people are being attacked by insane people is the reason why both sides are banning them left and right.

[wind hare]

he can't put forward a motion in another coutry, other people did. They represent it.

[proud depot]

Ok ross did release an update video for SKG on the 29th and in the first few minutes he says that he wants to leave thor alone. He's open to doing a conversation, but he said its not nescesary. So I think we can fully drop the subject here IMO

not that it will stop anyone but whatevs

[misty umbra]

....

[worthy ivy]

I know - I just really like "eat my entire ass"
it makes the immature kid in me smile
and for some reason, people seem really mad about it - and I just don't get why

[idle hill]

#streamchat message

[indigo wadi]

but he's the face of it because he's promoting it, thus he's the center of it.

[south valley]

What are the chances his audience will listen?

[jolly crystal]

it's the attitude

[dusky grove]

yeah and we denounce messages like that

[terse pelican]

It has to be said regardless if people listen or not

[jolly crystal]

not "i don't like this let's talk" but "i hate it, eat shid and i won't even bother talking to you"

[wind hare]

That doesn't matter to parlement or the EU. If it gets the votes then they need legal representatives of it. By giving him all the credit you are taking away from the people who actually need to be the face of their local movement

[south valley]

It’ll make him the good person.
Unfortunately I think this drama will continue regardless of it. People just want hatred

[wary lotus]

SKG will not achieve anything anyway.
Ross is hoping that the politicians will have "an open hand to do the right thing" so he goes in without much of a plan.

They will contact Mr Gacha, Mr Live-Service and Mr AAA to ask about the thing.
No laws will be made.

I feel for the people who want to play the old games - but the movement is not thought out.

[indigo wadi]

It matters for purpose of it being online. So yes, Ross is the centerpiece ofit being the one ot socially promote it online

[south valley]

Yeah that’s how I even heard of this. The YouTubers covering it. I hear one of them slandering Thor

[toxic rampart]

This is absolutely something you'd bark at a friend for saying something absurd and that's why I like it.

[indigo wadi]

cant kill something if it doesn't exist I suppose

[south valley]

Causing drama and hatred is NOT stopping to kill games.
I’m sorry. It just isn’t.

[stone prairie]

Which people? Who? Do you have evidence?

[frozen nimbus]

Who... who made this?

Did ross make that?

[wary lotus]

YouTubers are just drama farming - cause they make money on it.

[wind hare]

True but their local residents can talk to their reps and give them information. Ross can't contact a member of parlement and much as a UK pre can contact the Congressional rep of CT

[cursive solar]

holy shit, the uk initiative has reached its 100k goal

[dusky grove]

but who's actually stepping up to be the face of it in those areas. The amount of people that are voicing support that I've seen in public (through vids and such) are mostly from the US. The only EU ones I know are Josh pewds and Jack

[frozen nimbus]

Hasn't condemned any hate waves towards Thor and his community

[indigo wadi]

Sure, but when it comes to online, Ross is the literal face of the movement.

[proud depot]

though I will add he does say "undo any damage thor did to the campaign" which feels like calling him out right before he says he wants to leave thor alone

[wind hare]

IF Ross actually cared, he would be promoting those people and pointing them out

[thick ledge]

Interesting tidbit about ross: he is not an EU citizen

[worthy ivy]

we can't go around being the "attitude" police - who decides what "attitude" even means - one man's "attitude" is another man's "directness", one man's "opinion" is another man's "misinformation"

we get hung up on the tone, or percieved "attitude" we argue past the points...
if you see what I mean

if his worst crime is saying "eat my entire ass"...... then all this drama is so out of proportion it's got to be a new record for peak-internet-stupid

[stone prairie]

These people wanting to kill games you talked about.

[terse pelican]

He lives in the EU as far as I know

[thick ledge]

As he can't sign his own petition

[jolly sky]

Ross against certain types of games even being made.

Maybe you should ask him what that's about.

[frozen nimbus]

Yes it was a Twitter post

[misty umbra]

being so long here, give me the wish to adopt a ferret instead a cat XD, is his normal chat ? 👍

[hollow radish]

He doesn't deserve the hate, but I don't think it will go away very quickly unless he puts out a statement correcting himself on the parts of SKG he misrepresented initially and apologizing for his part of the miscommunication.

I don't think he should have to do that to make the harassment stop, harassment is never justified. But I do think he should be willing to admit fault, however small, and leave it at that in general.

[idle hill]

@cursive solar

[thick ledge]

Living=/= citizen

[cursive solar]

true, which makes it even cooler that hes doing all this, although i know he stated he lives in poland

[wind hare]

Yes I was going over that fact

[frozen nimbus]

Does anyone else have the Twitter post?

[indigo wadi]

I'm on page 54 of oyur posting history in this channel

[wary lotus]

Ross basically attacked Thor as a sacrifice-tactic. His movement was fizzling out, so he just sacrificed Thor to gain more votes.

[worthy ivy]

yes

[thick ledge]

Thors*

[indigo wadi]

Me, waiting to see if initiative fails due to fake sigs

[cursive solar]

im aware if this, i live in the uk so of course i know about this, but that was before it reached 100k, i wouldnt hold your breath that nothing happens, nothing might happen but stating that makes it look like you dont want it to pass

[worthy ivy]

"which makes him a foreign agent"
ftfy 🙂
/j

[cursive solar]

oh it 100% will im sure, and im pessimistic

[dusky grove]

yes. But be warned they are quite high maintenance and might not play well with other animals. Might fight/kill dogs or cats and will deffo go after smaller ones

[cursive solar]

lol

[indigo wadi]

oh hey, lets debate this over the next 10 hours

[thick ledge]

Ross is absolutely doing this, the man has been online for 20 years, he knew what would jappen

[cursive solar]

oh god please no 😭

[thick ledge]

He's not stupid

[frozen nimbus]

We condemn hate towards ross as well, and yeah kendo you need to chill

[indigo wadi]

lol im kidding

[jolly sky]

At multiple points over many years of being online, he has said that he does not like that certain games are even made, and that they should not exist.

[toxic rampart]

Political rage baiting baybeeeee

[worthy ivy]

idk, seems like a pretty reasonable take tbh?

[wary lotus]

I am pretty certain that's what he did.
It's a pretty obvious manipulation tactic and it worked.

[worthy ivy]

Thor is being sacrified on the altar of SKG

[thick ledge]

"Hey this pirate guy is unpopular, what if I play off that for attention?"

[indigo wadi]

which games specifically?

[worthy ivy]

dammn there's a good #thorchan meme in there somewhere

[frozen nimbus]

They were being civil, and that is basically what happened

[thick ledge]

He has never once condemned this behavior, and is instead weaponizing it

[jolly sky]

MMO's for one

[cursive solar]

but hey, whatever happens, i had some fun i guess discussing about the whole thing with people here, no matter what happens i believe history has happened, whether we believe good or bad, maybe im overexaggerating

[frozen nimbus]

And now its working

[south valley]

Tell him to bring it to parliament then instead of internet drama.
Honestly. It’d be better if there was a proper protest about it.

[idle hill]

what channel is that and what role do I need to get into it

[thick ledge]

He's directly, intentionally causing this behavior, he says as such in the video

To drum up engagement

[jovial sandal]

"I was staying silent on Thor's objections so as to not direct a mob his direction, but support for my petition is faltering, so... yolo"

[dusky grove]

He set the stage. That's why directors are in movie credits even if they don't show up on camera

[frozen nimbus]

Ok? Lmao

"We should be civil" sends this gif lol

[thick ledge]

Yes, hold on

[worthy ivy]

not sure what role - but be warned
some things cannot be unseen

[frozen nimbus]

Oh lol

[thick ledge]

It's gonna take me a minute to grab the timestamp

[frozen nimbus]

Thats ok 👍

[indigo wadi]

without WoW, I wouldn't have made the friends that I raid with.

[wary lotus]

SKG will not work anyway.
Just look at how GDPR "fixed" things.
Effectively nothing happened - cause you can enter a legal contracting to sell your data.

SKG will just make it law that people can "sign away their right to owning a game" a bit more clearly when playing a Live-Service.
That's it.

[idle hill]

I've seen some shit, cant be any worse than that

[toxic rampart]

Mods are gunna be in over time.

[cursive solar]

i still cant believe the uk got as big of a surge since yesterday, it got 30k signatures in 24 hours ish

[worthy ivy]

that's what I thought the first time

[frozen nimbus]

Ok yeah

Still isnt being civilized lol

[lapis flame]

the guy he responded to 10 months ago? the guy that hasnt said one word about it since before the response by Ross?

[worthy ivy]

but in all seriousness, check it out - it's cursed in there

[steep surge]

I don't think anyone wins when this goes through

[wary lotus]

No you won't - if you read what SKG wants, it specifically states there you will lose that fight.

[frozen nimbus]

Might make a ticket lol

[dusky grove]

you say this like its a fight and not a debate.

[wary lotus]

The SKG movement is just worded incorrectly - it has no chance like this.

[steep surge]

I mean they said "We will win" just a message before soo...yeah they see it as a fight

[jolly sky]

Thor outwardly condemns and tells people not to white knight, or harass on his behalf or in his name.

I've not heard, read, or seen a single piece where Ross condemns those same people doing the same in behalf of him or his movement.

[frozen nimbus]

Unfortunately its still being signed

[hollow radish]

Well it's a fight to get the law changed so consumers are better informed about what it is they're actually getting

[frozen nimbus]

Anyone who spreads hate, either towards Thor OR ross can be banned

[mellow field]

Heya goblins! I don't know what the outcome is gonna be. But I am just hoping for improvements in the EULAs and maybe standardise the quality of EoL plans for all future games that are only playable online.
I love Thor, still believe he mainly adds good food for thought and vibes to the world. And now I'm outta here. This drama has already given me anxiety from reading people get angry on both sides.
Have a good day everyone

[brisk sparrow]

He had 10 months to counter that coverage. Yet he waited until it had a month to go.

[serene valley]

If people are actually harassing Ross then they're not better than the people harassing Thor

[wary lotus]

That means nothing - the EU parilment will basically not implement anything once they gather for debate.
The SKG movement is just not bringing up the correct wording.
Nothing will be achieved by it.

[wind hare]

SKG COULD have made an impact but again Ross over the past 10 months hasn't organized this into a real movement.

Normal national movements ahev LOCAL chapters who handle the laws in their area. This local chapters have heads and when it comes to thier turn on the stage they are promoted and given time since they will be the ones pushing in their area.

Right now, you just have one dude yelling into the wind who isn't in any of the areas currently under consideration.

[frozen nimbus]

Yes

Yes I do think that

[jolly sky]

It certainly means that he is not the person who should be heading it. Especially when he refuses to change any wording on it, and is against all other solutions if no one can think of an alternative.

[wary lotus]

That's why he made such a drama about it - so big YouTubers talk about it.

[south valley]

It does nothing. Exactly
What makes a better voice is protesting in public, make a voice from it.
Then maybe parliament will consider it. But some unions can also help

[dusky grove]

What I mean is that we're not really that opposed. We're just disagreeing on the method and scope.

Think about raiding a castle in a game. 1 group wants to go stealthy, 1 group wants to go in and bust down the front door

[brisk sparrow]

My point is: he waited to admit defeat instead of trying to get it more attention so it wouldn’t fail.

[lapis flame]

Not to mention: Ross did publish a FAQ video after Thors 2 videos, that largely addressed Thors points (some in weird ways, but okay).

[south valley]

Capitalism

[frozen nimbus]

If it was just to admit defeat why did he bash on Thor for 30 mins lol

[summer night]

christ on a bike are we still on this

[frozen nimbus]

Never ending cycle 😔

[wary lotus]

We'll be on this for the next 2 weeks - then the Internet will get bored

[brisk sparrow]

It’s not gonna end until it passes or fails, and may take a while until after that too.

[south valley]

Don’t want to go into politics more but it’s probably a main principle why you only buy licenses to use games but still pay in full.

[summer night]

https://tenor.com/view/i'm-dead-merry-go-round-i'm-dead-dead-girl-gif-9805534590949570373

[thick ledge]

Got the time stamp: Ross starts explaining he has nothing to lose now and is going to drama farm at 20:30

[idle hill]

The debate will continue until morale improves 💢

[thick ledge]

So it's 100% intentionally dragging thor through the mud

[terse pelican]

Which of the Videos?

[frozen nimbus]

So then why did he wait 10 months to respond to thors "misinformation"

[thick ledge]

https://youtu.be/HIfRLujXtUo?si=fsM1E7pDl9gHVzKp

This one

[worthy ivy]

yuuuup
at least another week of it to come by my guess
but am pessimist

[wary lotus]

No - you were TOLD by ROSS that was the case.
In reality, the movement was just poorly planned so it wasn't catching traction.

Once big YouTubers entered the field, they WORDED it better. Which attracted people.

[thick ledge]

Absolutely not a joke wtf lmao

What indicator is there that it's a joke, you're shifting the goal posts

You said he didn't say that

Then when I linked proof

[brisk sparrow]

Nope. He had 10 months to continue to promote SKG. He did not do so until one month before the deadline. I have heard nothing about it until now since thors videos.

[thick ledge]

You said he was joking

????

[steep surge]

absolutely not a joke
Even if it were, it had the same impact as if it wasn't a joke

[umbral gazelle]

oh my god 75% of the video is about Thor

[brisk sparrow]

Yup

[worthy ivy]

"he never said that" becomes "he said it but it was a joke"

next comes "he said it but isn't an issue"

[ruby wave]

Because he didn't want it to be a drama thing. And instead focus in the actual initiative. But cause it was dying, and allat. He figured a last ditch effort would be the best idea and address Thor's statements against SKG and how he completely misread the initiative.

[wary lotus]

Yup - intentionally so

[thick ledge]

he SAYS it's drama farming, but that he's going to drama farm now because he has nothing to lose

Disgusting imo

[jolly sky]

Sorry zaf but its not timestamped

[wind hare]

Mob boss tactics

[stone prairie]

I do think the power fantasy that Thor with his primarily English speaking audience of about ten thousand in north and South America somehow stopped hundreds of millions of Europeans from signing or learning a out somwthing is hilarious.

[primal torrent]

shout to the UK

[lapis flame]

the point is that the excuse of "the initiative is about to die, so i can do whatever i want to make it somehow succeed" doesnt work when there are still 11 months to go.

[thick ledge]

20:30

[frozen nimbus]

No? If he did it right after it would seem like hes trying to respond and disprove thors point. Doing it 10 months later when the initiative its dying out makes it look like drama farming

[toxic rampart]

This x1000.
It didn't need to happen.

His work should speak for itself and spending so much time on dragging anyone and blaming them when you had nearly A YEAR to do that work and make it appealing to those outside of the initiative...... Come ON.

How is that not obvious?

[thick ledge]

It should not be a succeed at ant cost

Have some fkin morals

[steep surge]

"That didn’t happen.
And if it did, it wasn’t that bad.
And if it was, that’s not a big deal.
And if it is, that’s not my fault.
And if it was, I didn’t mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it."

Reminded me of this

[summer night]

WHAT I DO?!?!?!

[dusky grove]

no, because it would have been an honest refute. a correction made in a timely manner. By waiting that long, and as Zaf pointed out, admitting that he has nothing to lose by drama farming he admits to just do it not for correction but for clicks

[worthy ivy]

can we start diagnosing people with TDS?
(Thor Derangement Syndrome)

[thick ledge]

It's gross, and he's right, it did turn me away, and I won't be supporting anything he's even tangentially related to from now on

[idle hill]

https://tenor.com/view/fire-writing-gif-24533171

[summer night]

ahhhh

[thick ledge]

0 respect for him

Disgusting tactic

Actively trying to drum up hate for support

[jolly prism]

I heard you are pretty good at that, with Brexit and all

[summer night]

we dont talk about that

[lapis flame]

the initiative had its best days when it was attached to drama.

[green plank]

what do you think they talk about in there discord 🫠

take a guess

🐴

[worthy ivy]

there's probably a meme in there somewhere with a TDS and a TRSII arguing about something...

but am busy this eve, have not time to make 😦

[fluid dome]

Morning

[frigid crown]

Ross didn't make a response directly addressing Thor because he did not want the movement to be associated as a drama farm. Thor absolutely had one of the most viewed videos on the topic at the time and had some big critizisms of the movement. The reason he made that part of the video is because at this point he saw it as a liability to the movement to not address it at this point.

[idle hill]

man it's just all downhill from here huh

[thick ledge]

And it only required thors personal safety, and that of his family

Worth it huh?

[jolly prism]

Oh sorry, SO I HEARD SKG IS GREAT AND THOR IS A BIG POOPY HEAD

[green plank]

do you think the word "thor" has ever been said

[lapis flame]

except for the FAQ video that addressed Thors 2 videos.

[green plank]

thats a cute excuse

[umbral halo]

Thor's safety isn't somehow at risk because he got called out on his intentionally false information spreading.

[idle hill]

they probably call him "pirate"

[thick ledge]

No, he literally says he has nothing to lose, as in he's now willing to drama farm and ruin someone's life for signatures

[worthy ivy]

might be at risk from all the death threats tho, no?

[jolly sky]

Imagine trying to change Electrical laws, and then choosing to ignore Electricians and Health and Safety experts.

Lmao

[fluid dome]

Yeah remember when he broke into my house in a dream? What a shithead

[green plank]

happy, youve said enough, i think i got my point across (:

[lapis flame]

you think death threats and general harassment arent safety risks?

[frosty spear]

Yeah but those got max 35k views in those 10 month he didn't do much to get outside his buble even another some ordinary gamers video would have been better for reach and mutta did call ross a friend and was very aggressive and supportive about the movement in the original video and these latest 2 videos

[lapis flame]

im sorry ... what?

[jolly prism]

So you are saying the death threats, harassment and even stalking did not happen?

[indigo wadi]

or swatting

[steep surge]

dude, people have been doing awful things to him that go far beyond "calling him out"

[frigid crown]

In which he never referred to thor in any way but just went over points. The FAQ that has literally 1/10th of the views of thors videos

[green plank]

https://tenor.com/view/bocchi-the-rock-bocchi-bocchi-dance-anime-dance-anime-cute-dance-gif-8640564821222907754

[thick ledge]

Bro people have called him to threaten him, they've taken pictures outside his house

[idle hill]

Anyone who knows him calls him Thor
Anyone who doesn't calls him Pirate
anyone who refuses to acknowledge that "Thor" is his middle name and calls him Jason instead, well
well idk then

[frozen nimbus]

^

[thick ledge]

Like ???

[wary lotus]

People literally were trying to call services on Thor's Ferret Rescue, cause of this drama.
Cause they wanted to hurt him.

[jolly sky]

"Intentionally False Information"

Reading out a vague initiative that even supporters of the SKG don't actually know what it wants

[frozen nimbus]

Didn't they send a welfare check as well?

[worthy ivy]

yes

[frozen nimbus]

^

[thick ledge]

Intentionally, yes

[steep surge]

damn I didn't know about the pictures
That's awful

[idle hill]

THOR SOFTWARE ⚡

[terse pelican]

Inaccurate, It's Mr Soft Hair

[umbral halo]

and how is this the other guy's fault? He didn't call for people to harm him. He just pointed out how Thor's stream and youtube video killed the movement when he was going out of his way to misrepresent it

[indigo wadi]

Prirate Hall

[blissful imp]

i've heard of the 2 week minecraft phase, but the 2 week internet drama phase.

[lapis flame]

At least indirectly, yes.

[thick ledge]

Correct, people are approaching him in public and screaming at him, going to his house, calling his family like??

[jolly prism]

By not issuing a statement for people to chill, since he was the biggest reason people started going after Thor again? At this point, yes.

[frozen nimbus]

Well people are currently trying to ruin to his life

[worthy ivy]

yarrrr, where's me conditioner mateys? I'm Pirate Soft Hair, yarrrr

[formal kestrel]

i doubt it would have been intentional, but people with followings need to realise that is how a portion will be

[jolly sky]

Doxxing
Harassment
Death Threats
"Welfare" checks
IRL Stalking

Those last two literally put his life at risk my guy

[frozen nimbus]

They were view botting iirc to try and get thor banned

[wary lotus]

Ross didn't want to really cause HARM to Thor.
He just wanted to USE Thor.

Whether Thor would suffer or not was irrelevant to him - he just sacrificed him for his own gains.
Ross didn't really want him to be sent death threats, he just wanted to use him, regardless of what happens to Thor.

[idle hill]

unironically it has become about hating Thor, by any means necessary

[jolly prism]

Funny, then why is every comment section of every SKG video (and the video itself) full of things about Thor.

[thick ledge]

He absolutely intentionally caused this, he says as much in the video

[frozen nimbus]

View botting as well in hopes off being banned

[worthy ivy]

is it? all I see is Thor's face plastered all over every. single. thumbnail.
on every single SKG video...

[lapis flame]

to make SKG succeed.

[umbral halo]

He blatantly made up false information that didn't exist in the initiative whatsoever. He added nonexistent points and adamantly told people not to support it based on those made up topics

[fluid dome]

Only reason anyone has the balls to actually say this shit is because they're hiding behind a screen.

[frosty spear]

Yeah that the interesting part to me he went from referring to the movement in that video in 3rd person like us as a community, our movement, etc. and not mentioning thor all that much. To talking about the movement in 1st person and dedicating 1 hour long video to bashing Thor after 10 months

[jolly sky]

His supporters have, that he hasn't even said a word on denouncing their actions

[indigo wadi]

No he didn't. He addressed concerns from a Dev perspective.

[worthy ivy]

this 1000000%

[jolly prism]

You said it was not about Thor, not who is responsible. Why are you moving goalposts again? Coward

[thick ledge]

No he said "I've got nothing to lose so I'm going to drama farm, here's 33 minutes about how thor is Hitler, but don't hate him pls"

[terse pelican]

anyone with even the slightest understanding of youtube ToS Wouldn't say that, Cause that's 100% Reportable and Bannable.

[jolly sky]

"Blatently made up"

This is like your friend saying that you "misinterpreted" his drunken slurred words

[thick ledge]

Ross has been online for 20 years, he knows what he's doing

[toxic rampart]

This this this this this this this
The amount of hate spewed at him and lack of actual discussion about how the initiative should or could move forward is straight up disgusting.

I'm seeing gamergate 2 all over this again and it makes me frankly sick at people.

[thick ledge]

He does not carr

[wary lotus]

If I tell people where you live and call you all the slurs for being a bad person and how you oppose a good thing and you are the reason why the good thing fails...
Am I putting your life in danger?
Even if I am not explicitly stating to do harm to you?

[frozen nimbus]

He sure hasn't told people to NOT do it

[green plank]

does ross have like, a job?

[misty umbra]

the irony is that Ross is a criminal lawyer, may have good advice

[indigo wadi]

vroom vroom

[proud depot]

he doesn't seem to be doing anything about all the random accusations in his comment section

[lapis flame]

yes, you get to keep your community in check when youre the face of the community.

[jolly prism]

Did you just "true" react on your own message?

[umbral halo]

The crap about Single player drms and devs having to completely rework live service games IS made up. The initiative covers ALL games. It requires nothing extra from developers besides providing end-of-life accessibility to a product people bought. Just look at every live service game that went under prior to 2015. CSGO games are all still playable and you can make servers to run them

[thick ledge]

I'm sorry you are struggling with basic cause and effect, let me spell it out for you, youtuber intentionally directs hate at another youtuber, a bunch of other youtubers pile on, youtuber is intentionally silent about the death threats and doxxing

[worthy ivy]

yuuuuup
obvious op is obvious

[frozen nimbus]

It is definitely not a tiny percentage, and if so, yeah, they still should when its threatening someone's security

[worthy ivy]

"Thorgate"

[umbral gazelle]

"It requires nothing extra from developers besides providing end-of-life accessibility to a product" this contradicts itself

[indigo wadi]

No it isn't.

[jolly sky]

When your videos, and presence on the internet is visibly and obviously causing some people to act in malicious way, and to have violent intentions, then YES.

You should denounce them. At every single chance that you get.

[steep surge]

1. He didn't misrepresent it.
2. When the initiative was dying Ross made another video about it, making it about Thor specifically in some parts. I, personally, think this was in the hopes of stirring up drama again to hopefully save the movement and it's gross.

[tribal canyon]

Ross can't have not seen peoples unhinged actions, yet he's silent on people using his name for this action

[fluid dome]

You are responsible for the keys you press on a keyboard.

[indigo wadi]

How are server games gonna run without Dev support? Please explain

[thick ledge]

It's ridiculous people are trying to insulate the movement as if these people arnt aware

[proud depot]

except when you buy a live service game you essentially sign an EULA saying you've bought a license to play the game that can be revoked at any point. This allows devs to ban people from online games

[toxic rampart]

I genuinely am starting to think we, in here may have had more constructive and healthy conversations about the actual initiative than those shidding and farting on Twitter.

[green plank]

if thor is tangentially connected to skg, then ross is tangentially connected to the people threatening to kill thor

[dusky grove]

if the issue is bad enough that its made public waves, yes. A figurehead is responsible for their followers. Even if it is a minority of ross' viewers, he is represented by the behavior of his fans much like how thor is represented by his and pewds his.

If ross wasn't aware that his supporters are like this then I might have given him a pass, but he clearly knows since every other person is dogpiling on thor in their vids

[umbral gazelle]

dont worry my raspberry pi is gonna do it! /s

[misty umbra]

I think Is not fair blame Ross, when Ross was always diplomatic and never said stuff like "eat my entire ass"
Or maybe am I missing something here?

[south valley]

@toxic rampart just saw your reply. I apologise for calling it a ‘joke’

[umbral halo]

They can completely delete the game from your account whenever they please. That's not okay lmao

[lapis flame]

influencers should be responsible with the influence they hold.

[worthy ivy]

somewhat agree - but

and it's a big but

I'm pretty sure I've had better conversations with a paper bag than on Twitter

[indigo wadi]

who is they?

[wind hare]

Yes, you need to make statements saying "If you attack other creators, I will ban you from my services."

Which funny enough Thor does.

[thick ledge]

He literally made an hour long video, 33 minutes of which is hate dumping on thor

[green plank]

can we start a movement for this

[umbral gazelle]

a villian who twirls their mustache is easy to spot a villian who cloaks themselves in good deeds are well camoflaged

[toxic rampart]

Its all good!!
Like I said, pulled the trigger too fast and now you can see why in here I'm sure lmao.

[misty umbra]

u mean the last one he made? or is a new one?

[green plank]

oh wait, none of the influencers would back it up

[jolly prism]

So Thor saying other people should not support the initiative had no impact, because he is not responsible for what other people do? I thought Thor's take was a big issue.

[toxic rampart]

Fair and true.

[dusky grove]

"the end of SKG"

[green plank]

cause they wouldnt want to be legally liable for what they do

[dusky grove]

zaf has a timestamp

[umbral halo]

You seriously haven't heard of 3rd party servers? How do you think every game runs after support runs out? They only recently started deleting games from your accounts. They shouldn't be allowed to REVOKE access to your purchased products

[thick ledge]

20:30 into the video he says he's going to intentionally drama farm

[cursive solar]

now for the next initiative, it should be about regulating AI, cause damn big issue

[thick ledge]

Because he has nothing to lose

Then goes on a half hour tirade

[dusky void]

https://tenor.com/view/i'm-dead-merry-go-round-i'm-dead-dead-girl-gif-9805534590949570373

[wary lotus]

Not all games can run on 3rd Party Servers.
The nuance in lost on SKG - some games are super-easy to fix, some not.

[jolly sky]

We're not saying Ross or others have to be "responsible" for others actions

We're saying at least make an effort to denounce those people, and tell people not to act in malicious or violent ways on their behalf

How are you not getting this?

[indigo wadi]

And what if those licenses run out? Or what if consumers don't want to pay the server costs? Now what?

Again, who is THEY? Give me an example.

[lapis flame]

lets do it and make the the life of anyone who disagrees miserable. That seems to work just fine.

[steep surge]

He said that once in the beginning and every other time has said, everyone should go out and make their own opinion.

[dusky grove]

Thor has repeatedly gone "Do your own research and make your own opinion"

[green plank]

yep, thats the strat clearly

[wary lotus]

For example, "The Crew" has an IP license running out if I recall.
The issue was not servers, but Car Manufacturers.

[frozen nimbus]

Tell SKG supporters to stop attacking people! Which AGAIN he has NOT done

[green plank]

i learned it from my friend ross

[thick ledge]

Anyway I've said my piece, people are willing to ruin lives so they can keep thier funny car game and anything I say won't change that

[frosty spear]

No, think for minute he started a movement that's about "not killing" video games, not him, and that he said he cares very much about, he even boasts in the drama video that he got support from big content creators and yet he didn't do anything to capitalize on that connection. It's not about him having a small channel it's about him not being a good advocate for the movement or not actually carrying about it. I've seen driven people with no backing, no community behind them, be able to start movements and actually get stuff done

[frozen nimbus]

Mood

[frigid crown]

Aside from the SKG stuff I don't think Ross has nearly the level of reach some people think he has apparently. He averages like 10-30k views, I really don't think most of the hate is coming from people that actively are apart of his community but are morelikely just hijacking the movement to hate on thor more. Way way way more people have seen the drama farming channel videos than any of Ross's videos.

[umbral halo]

You shouldn't lose access to a game you bought period. That's the point. Other people will run a server, you can run a local one if you really want. Overwatch 1, concord, crash. You have to be living under a rock to not see it happening in real time

[proud depot]

live service games by defenition have an end point in their lives, deal with it

[indigo wadi]

So, devs shouldn't be able to ban toxic behaviour from their server games?

[lapis flame]

Are you under a misapprehension of where the term "influencer" comes from?

[wary lotus]

That is true.
People who hate Thor basically hijacked the SKG movement.

[frozen nimbus]

What about Shrek swamp kart raceway

[proud depot]

don't likeit don't play live service games

[jolly sky]

We're not saying they do.

We're saying that they have every chance to denounce those peoples actions and not act maliciously on their behalf

[wary lotus]

or more like... they are using SKG as an excuse

[umbral halo]

Ban from their server yes, deleting the game from them isn't okay whatsoever

[tribal canyon]

Same, at this point im
Just praying people move on the next drama now the initiative is getting votes