streamchat

[fluid dome]

I can't believe Thor started jam drama

[wet storm]

No that's just blueberry

[dusky grove]

You must know from experience, huh

[clear raft]

Still researching though

[wet storm]

It's the purple-brown jam under the bananas

[wind hare]

Isn't this part of the Game Jam? Was I lied to?

[nova bough]

im tired of the drama. im just waiting for the EU to say "wtf do you want us to do with this?"

[opaque raven]

It's a fruit (mostly from Brazil) that you turn into a purple paste or even ice cream and it's really good. Usually you eat it in a bowl with granola and fruits

[tight bramble]

It DOES look yummy.

[nova bough]

it looks like beets

[worthy ivy]

I heard that Thor secretly wants to kill all Jam because he's an industry shill for Big-Jam... I don't know if it's true... but I heard it somewhere /j

[wet storm]

The fruit itself looks like olives apparently

[nova bough]

i love kiwi tho

[nova bough]

reminds me of pomegranates

[tight bramble]

I missed all of your cat pics earlier..... 😞

[wind hare]

it started with Bread with no sugar. It is now a war on everything that has sugar in it. We call it the Spice War

[dusky grove]

A lot of people just want to make a vid quickly for the views or to support the movement. They dont give time to research or talk about this. They just see that thor is against it so he must be the villain in this disney movie

[nova bough]

lemme go find my kitties

[wet storm]

LOL

Man I had this chat with one of the trainers at the gym

[wet storm]

He says sugar is terrible, don't eat sugar

And I'm like

[dusky grove]

I guess if he's against it, we have to get all the jam and... preserve it

[wet storm]

"But muscles need glycogen"

[opaque raven]

It's not exactly liquid and it doesn't easily melt like ice cream, it maintains this structure.
I used to eat this on a daily basis in Brazil after surfing, it's insanely good

[tight bramble]

Good void!

[wet storm]

Thoguht best not to argue

Smile and wave

[worthy ivy]

that actually caused me physical pain

[clear raft]

After I'm done forming my opinion on this I will likely stop watching the youtuber that sent me down this rabbit hole specifically because it appears that they did not do their research

[tight bramble]

Muscle need protein! -spoken like a gymrat-

[worthy ivy]

I love it

[frozen nimbus]

https://youtube.com/shorts/L3mneZwzEx0?si=UatQz3H1Ye05EIsP found this from one of my favorite creators, wish there was some more digging onto both sides rather than just listening to what all off reddit and Twitter say

[wet storm]

Yeah basically that lol

Dude's a black belt in muay thai tho

[radiant escarp]

I'm making it, give me some words for it

[wet storm]

He can fold me like an origami of a crane if he wants

[dusky grove]

Idk what that is, but it looks so similar to the korean chili paste that I went "blueberries and gochujjang... odd but maybe..."

[wet storm]

I thought best to just agree

[radiant escarp]

I already have yt_ads: 1 as a free space

[idle hill]

Whoever said that is misinformed or intentionally trying to harm you
It's perfectly normal to drink sugar water (1:10 ratio sugar to water) for energy/regeneration

[fluid dome]

Name and shame them :3

[opaque raven]

I also have Nutella but maybe mixed with pb it might become absurdly sweet

[tight bramble]

"The key to lifting heavier, is to just lift more weight!"

-meatheads

[nova bough]

my $.02

in the end, it boils down to "do you trust EU lawmakers to find and solve anti-consumer problems around end of life for games?"

and also, no one should get their lives threatened for an opinion

[opaque raven]

It's açaí, a paste made with the fruit. It's sweet and delicious

[wet storm]

He's a cool dude tho, very motivating

Lifting is more fun when theres a dude next to you yelling for you to do one more rep

CMOOOON

ONE MOOORE

DUUUDE

AAAAAAAAAAAAA

Then spend 3 minutes exorcising demons from your shoulders

[nova bough]

also, find and solve these problems without hindering indie devs

[tight bramble]

Im not poking fun at him, just poking fun at those that live in the gym and follow influencer advice instead of actual experts.

[wet storm]

Yeye ofc

Bro science is cringe

The body has already been figured out in the context of lifting

My gauge is if they sell suplements

I trust no one that sells suplements

[idle hill]

if you've never experienced physical burnout
it's rough
you never know it's coming til it hits
and you cant get the weight up anymore

[dusky grove]

But this one pill will get you ripped in 4 hours, trust me bro

[wind hare]

I think its going to be funny if all multiplayer goes back to Peer 2 Peer and we need to download GameSpy again to find people to play with. Full Circle

[clear raft]

I will name them but I advise that none of us go attack this youtuber as 1: it's give them more views 2: it makes it harder for people such as myself to find the truth of what happened. Please do not harass this youtuber as if anything it helps them. Here's the name Jacobweeby.

[wet storm]

YES

GIMME LAN

AND VPNS

PLEASE

[exotic forge]

But at least people get to keep playing on those dead servers

[wet storm]

Hamachi gang stand up

[brazen drift]

time for hamchese

[tight bramble]

Honestly just take an army pt test. That'll be a very good gauge for your overall fitness, then just hone in on what is lacking. Not muscle wise, fitness wise.

[dusky grove]

Ngl. I think ham and cheese is an overrated combo

[wet storm]

Personally idk if I can handle it

I'd be gomer pyle for sure

[nova bough]

but also cheese is amazing

[exotic forge]

Very overrated

[nova bough]

ham is pretty sus

[wispy plover]

Why would you say this? Someone is gonna be so mad at Thor for it.

[idle hill]

You're two for two on off takes bro why dont you take a break

[wind hare]

here is a better option then Ham.
Cheese and Bacon, the better part of the Pig.

[nova bough]

yeeesssss bacon

[wet storm]

Cheese and turkey or chicken breast slices

[tight bramble]

The old one is what I did. Push-ups for 2 mins, sit-ups for 2 mins, and a 2 mile run. The new one is on a curve based on your job in the army.

[nova bough]

i do like making grilled cheese with turkey

[idle hill]

BRO CHOSE TURKEY OVER HAM
nah we gotta internet cancel this man

[ripe minnow]

game spy shutdown in 2013; i know that because Borderlands 1 used it for co-op and then had to switch to steam sometime after that

[wet storm]

That doesn't sound too tough, aside from the push-ups I suppose

Unless you're sedentary I mean then it's gonna be tough

[wind hare]

ya I miss gameSpy. But if everything goes back to Peer 2 Peer, then it could be resurrected. Atleast something like it

[north lintel]

Depends on the ham, depends on the cheese, the medium by which the two are combined. Frankly, how dare you make such a statement lacking any nuance. You must be a fan of Thors or something.

[wet storm]

Thor stole my ham and cheese. Actual goblin

[wind hare]

I used gameSpy to play Fallout Tactics. That was some fun Multiplayer

[nova bough]

thor probably smells like moldy cheese.

[tight bramble]

Yeah if you are moderately active its no big deal. The hardest part is the situps. If you don't train, you will gas out quick. Its also based on your age. So the older you are, the easier it becomes.

[wind hare]

I mean he grows mushrooms so i bet there is a mold smell around that area

[tight bramble]

Blue cheese is yummy though.

[dusky grove]

Next take, chocolate is overrated. Give me strawberry flavored stuff instead

[nova bough]

blue cheese is delicious

[green plank]

i like the united states physical fitness guidelines as a milestone to shoot for

[opaque raven]

I really need to get one of those French toast makers, like this. It's not even expensive it's just that it's another equipment to add to the kitchen we already have so many

[wind hare]

Strawberry Cheesecake

[nova bough]

i will fight you on this one. i love chocolate. esp chocolate with caramel

[north lintel]

Counter-take: Raspberry is superior to strawberry in every conceivable way.

[wind hare]

We need a way to PvP in Discord

[opaque raven]

No
Wrong
And you deserve 2hrs of League of Legends for saying this

[wispy plover]

Counter point: Dark chocolate strawberry.

[worthy ivy]

'member gamespy?

[tight bramble]

Thought that said Counter Strike for a sec hahahahaha

[dusky grove]

Look into cooking weights. Sometimes called fish weights. They make any pan into one of these

[exotic forge]

Terrorists win

[north lintel]

White chocolate and raspberry is far more viable in the current meta

[dusky grove]

Raspberry stuff is too rare outside the us to be part of the argument

[wispy plover]

you're so right for this

[tight bramble]

I played a bot match in an airport once without headphones. I got a lot of weird looks lmao

[north lintel]

Raspberry is rare outside the US?

[opaque raven]

We have those, I use to make burgers and a few other things, but still it's not the same for bread

[dusky grove]

White chocolate is the best kind of chocolate because it has no chocolate

[north lintel]

Im british by the way we have raspberries for days

[nova bough]

i mean...valid. wear headphones you goblin

[wind hare]

Well the UK doesn't believe in a food that can't be boiled

[clear raft]

This is what I watched and I think that this is way to simplified and tip toeing the line of dog piling on Thor. It also seems that the comments on that video are very misleading so any person try to gain good clean info from that ends up (unintentionally) getting the wrong info. While I do believe this is just supposed to be a funny video. I also think that it's somewhat hard to figure that out without doing more research

[tight bramble]

This was in 2011. I didnt have any at the time

[nova bough]

reminds me of the people who blast music on their phones while walking on hiking trails.

just why

[worthy ivy]

steam used to be the matchmaking service for Valve games before it became Steam as we know it - I'm sure I remember using Steam to play Team Fortress 1.5 Classic and they didn't have a storefront that I can remember (am I remembering right there or just going mental?)

[fluid dome]

Skill issue

[north lintel]

Indeed in much the same way America doesnt believe in food that isnt injected with chemical products that are banned in most countries.

[dusky grove]

From where i am and where i've been, its not common. Not as a jam (usually its just strawbs and bluebs) and rarely as like a flavor for pastries

[wind hare]

Yep, and it's why I didn't upgrade my Counterstrike because steam sucked in the beginning. And didn't allow modded weapon skins

[green plank]

but the chemicals taste good 😦

[tight bramble]

Yes. Audio via telepathy

[fluid dome]

What do you mean chlorinated chicken is bad for you?!

[wind hare]

Very true

[nova bough]

i believe in the food. but it means i do a lot of home cooking.

[wind hare]

How else are you going to swim with it?

[north lintel]

Raspberry jam is extremely popular in the UK

[worthy ivy]

used to play on Ancients House and a couple others
damn Team Fortress 1.5 was good
peak gaming right there

[green plank]

if i cant fry my steak in red40 i just wont eat.

[worthy ivy]

*peam even

[nova bough]

i need to get back to making my own bread

[dusky grove]

Chat, do you wash your meat before you cook it?

[nova bough]

no

[green plank]

i never wash my meat

[wind hare]

thats a little personal

[north lintel]

Absolutely not, and neither should you, all you do is spray your kitchen with whatevers on the surface of the meat.

[idle hill]

nah but I wash my rice and I don't burn it like a certain vtuber

[opaque raven]

Well, in here (scandi) we also produce raspberry by a ton so on the north it's not really that rare. And ye, I love them.
I actually have some right here

[fluid dome]

I should go to bed

[dusky grove]

I only do it if theres a visible cut/break through bones, like shortribs dor example

[rancid mauve]

washing meat is only if you drop it on the floor. lol

[idle hill]

holy- raspberries that aren't molding???

[north lintel]

Scotland is also pretty famous for raspberries

[exotic forge]

Nah unless it's old and expiring soon

[green plank]

i coat anything i cook in a thin layer of bacteria so that i can become stronger

[worthy ivy]

the george carlin method 🙂

[dusky grove]

Now i'm hungry.

[wind hare]

thats how you get brain worms

[green plank]

didnt fry have brain worms in an episode of futurama, and it made him awesome

[north lintel]

Also, to take mild umbridge with the boiling accusation:

We do not just boil everything we eat. We also roast the shit out of it.

Usually both

[worthy ivy]

steady exposure to low levels of bacteria strengthens the immune system - getting ill is just the immune system's version of going to the gym

[wind hare]

In our reality it doesn't seem to do the same thing, but with the way things are going more people will be infected so maybe we will evolve with them helping us

[nova bough]

i grew up on boiled food. so many foods that should not have been boiled were

[worthy ivy]

super-saiyan rules apply, after you take your beating you get stronger

[nova bough]

like Brussel sprouts. and asparagus

neither of those should ever be boiled

[north lintel]

Shut up and eat your boiled lettuce

[nova bough]

no

[green plank]

rocks are loaded with minerals, they are likely the best source of concentrated minerals

[worthy ivy]

@grok is this true?

[rancid mauve]

salt counts as a rock... right?

[green plank]

actually jokes aside, i think they technically do, you just cant eat them lol

[opaque raven]

Yes you Goron

[exotic forge]

https://tenor.com/view/jesuschristmarie-jesus-christ-marie-gif-5863915

[wispy plover]

Not with that attitude you cant.

[exotic forge]

They're not rocks, they're minerals!

[green plank]

lol

[worthy ivy]

one day mankind will have evolved to get our mineral nutrients by chowing down on the very rocks themselves

[wind hare]

This is what google is doing for people looking for answers

[green plank]

oh! i recently watched breaking bad and saw that scene lol

[opaque raven]

Not sure how true it is but I've seen some insanely rich people putting gold on their food

[nova bough]

@grok is this true

[green plank]

i mean, my understanding is that you can probably get all the vitamins and minerals you need from just a varied diet

[frozen nimbus]

Yes he usually makes enjoyable satire skits, but im disappointed in them not giving any sort of disclaimer to not attack the community, and as you said, people reading this comments are gonna be mislead

[north lintel]

We may have awful food but we also made a crap ton of money selling those spices back to the countries we took them from. As God intended.

[worthy ivy]

Brave's Ai answer is actually quite sensible

[fluid dome]

Wait really?

[wispy plover]

Like the gold flake stuff? I've seen that

[worthy ivy]

anyone know what model they run?

[rancid mauve]

its gold foil, its food safe, adds no flavor

gold is chemically innert, so no flavor

[north lintel]

Gold and no flavour? My british senses are tingling

[wind hare]

When you have enough money that you can start eating it for no value

[green plank]

i think chicken fingers are really good

[nova bough]

when boiled, Brussel sprouts taste bitter. they dont have that when roasted, and the crispy leaves from roasting are

[fluid dome]

Can you steam them?

[nova bough]

asparagus isnt that bad its just a lot better roasted

[nova bough]

i mean you can. not sure how they taste steamed

[wispy plover]

Roasted asparagus is fire

[north lintel]

I saute mine with a bit of butter and pine nuts personally

[rancid mauve]

you could always get a bottle of Goldshlager, I think its cinnamon schnaps with gold leaf floating around in it

[frozen nimbus]

Bru

[opaque raven]

A' yu bri'ish?

[nova bough]

it is

[rancid mauve]

all I remember is that I hated it because i dont like cinnamon candy or anything of that sorts

[frozen nimbus]

Anyone trying to get info is gonna be so mislead

[nova bough]

there are 100s of comments like that

[north lintel]

Yes but im not a cockney so the bottle of water memes do not apply

[worthy ivy]

ah, is mistral - one of the slightly less unhinged models IIRC

[wind hare]

Rage bait for the rage bait god.

[clear raft]

I was mislead by the video alone without the comments. Then you add but comments into the mix, trolls, and sarcasm. At this point any person that isn't familiar with YouTube have bot comments or the idea of these comments not being posted by real people and we start to create and echo chamber. One might even call this "propaganda"

[frozen nimbus]

Looking back, I dont think he was trying to make the video humorous

[idle hill]

Optimal diet:
Dark chocolate, oranges, and mashed potatoes

[green plank]

all mixed together

[worthy ivy]

I can't make that make any sense at all... bru indeed

[round bolt]

I think peanut butter and potatoes you can survive on for a long time

[nova bough]

yeah. its... lost the plot now

[round bolt]

Eventually you need fruit for scurvy

[idle hill]

SPECIFICALLY dark chocolate, you cannot replace it, I'm sorry

[opaque raven]

Potatoes are immortal

[frozen nimbus]

He also probably didnt do much looking and was mislead by the masses of Twitter and reddit lol

[worthy ivy]

rage just becomes fuel for #thorchan

[idle hill]

are you asking for a bad time

[north lintel]

Terrys chocolate orange is better than anything ever.

[frozen nimbus]

Its fine to disagree with thor, but people need to have a disclaimer to not attack him or the community, dont attack anyone really

[green plank]

ill be honest, if i can have my home made chicken fingers and fries, i dont want anything else from the world

🏄‍♀️

[clear raft]

Alr I stop now

[wind hare]

What on earth did I just look at

[rancid mauve]

theres just a lot of people out there that need something to be mad at... because they need to feel anything of substance to fight off their exestensial dread, even if its blind rage

[nova bough]

the whole "thor misrepresented/lied about skg is so silly"

[wispy plover]

whaaaat? No.... twitter and reddit would never be wrong. :3

[worthy ivy]

ahh, sorry - thought you knew - would have warned you otherwise - mb

[frozen nimbus]

Yes obviously obviously

Ofc

[nova bough]

oh no, i meant the whole drama situation. you're fine

[worthy ivy]

is cursed in there

[opaque raven]

That, also a dash of wanting to feel like a hero

[clear raft]

I understand now

[worthy ivy]

but in a good way

[wind hare]

I mean I browse 4Chan sometimes but that was scary

[worthy ivy]

#thorchan is peam goblin

[frozen nimbus]

When would people on the internet EVER lie or mislead others

[opaque raven]

/pol was always an adventure

[rain valley]

I seem to have stumbled into more nonsense, while looking for different nonsense 😂

[north lintel]

Indeed, im almost entirely opposed to thors take on SKG, but I dont hate him for it, nor do i blame him for the coincidental stalling of SKG.

[wet storm]

I'm fond of /tg/

[rain valley]

Also do I want to know what's behind that "No Access" link? >.>

[worthy ivy]

nonsense?
in gen-chat?
.....
must be Wednesday then 🙂

[north lintel]

Peam?

[worthy ivy]

*peak

[north lintel]

Too late

Join the typo club

[rancid mauve]

not sure what a peam is, but its a thing now

[rain valley]

It's Tuesday here 😂

[wet storm]

https://tenor.com/view/minor-spelling-mistake-gif-21179057

[frozen nimbus]

I think most people dont even know anything about SKG and if they should support it or not, but just decide to go attack a community and person because its the latest trend

[opaque raven]

Niko is now our grammar police
Good, we lacked one

[nova bough]

also, a lot of people dont understand the EU process and think no harm can come of the initiative

[worthy ivy]

peam is a thing
as in "check my skibidi rizz, my look is peam fanum, peam!"

[wet storm]

Faxx

[north lintel]

Im guessing you missed the poing drama earlier

[idle hill]

why is there no SOUND

[wispy plover]

That's entirely how the WoW thing was as well.

[clear raft]

It's a funny thing with the internet. You start off hating the misinformation then you are amused by it and then you see the consequences of the misinformation and you hate the internet

[worthy ivy]

indeed, but there is no poing crying over spilt milk

[green plank]

i like thor, he is pleasant to listen to ya know, he is pretty well informed in security stuff and has generally fine heuristics for getting your foot into game design

do i agree with everything he has every said, no

[wind hare]

Reddit isn't bad if you just don't look at the drama bs and block the users. I love the Meme groups. The Warhammer ones are great.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerMemes/comments/1hs52iu/spatial_racism/

[idle hill]

gonna put lemon juice in your milk

[rancid mauve]

you are missing an o

[frozen nimbus]

Yeah cause they only see the surface, yeah its a good intention, but videos such as thors explain why it would NOT be good to make. But who actually cares to do research, that's lame /s

[nova bough]

whats hilarious is thor is being accused of misinformation as well

[opaque raven]

Just saw it now
Ye, it's all over for you

[rancid mauve]

*pooing

[clear raft]

Lmao

[frozen nimbus]

People just assume that we are saying all games should die and that we hate consumers, like yeah we also dont want to kill games, but this isnt the way to do it

[idle hill]

which is in itself misinformation, is it not?

[frozen nimbus]

Most people are still coming from the wow thing im guessing

[north lintel]

I will double, nay triple down on poing until you all agree with me, the thor way of handling drama

[wispy plover]

Hell I don't agree with everything Thor says/does either. But what little that is, I don't crap on him for it or wish him ill or anything because I am not a freaking psychopath?

[opaque raven]

That's....that's actually a good read on how things usually go. Never thought about it

[green plank]

specifically the thing he said about diet soda 😡 (you are not at risk of bone deterioration from casual diet soda consumption) (im not actually upset but this is just an example and its whatever lol 😂 )

[tight bramble]

The typos have gained sentience! They're self-replicating!

[nova bough]

i have a friend that ive pointed allll of this out to, and hes still like "you dont understand the EU process"

so much of that going around. im going to laugh my ass off if the EU comes back with "this is too vauge for us to do anything with"

[frozen nimbus]

Mainly because people dont actually research what hes saying, so its just automatically misinformation

[worthy ivy]

stand firm in your convictions - your inner compass will poing the way

[green plank]

this is an example where i was like "huh thats not super accurate", but it also doesnt matter lol

[brittle jacinth]

worst of all we all use it daily

[opaque raven]

But remember, this is the person you are all defending!

[tight bramble]

You got my vote

[rancid mauve]

I want to believe that it works well in the end, but im fully expecting a "thus the monkeys paw curls" outcome in the end of all this

[frozen nimbus]

How DARE he, @ thor explain yourself

Im unsubbing smh

[rain valley]

So, at the risk of further "several people are typing", I saw a claim by someone in a Youtube comment, that amounted roughly to 'Charlie and Josh Stryfe Hayes had a conversation with Thor, stuff happened, and then Thor leaked DMs on his Discord before deleting them' which I came here to see if could find anything about that, because it seems like fake nonsense but I do try to check things... is there anything like that which has actually occurred?

[idle hill]

I saw that

[frozen nimbus]

Nuh uh

https://tenor.com/view/no-witnesses-erase-memory-forget-gif-20806865

[north lintel]

Several people are typing...

[rain valley]

😂

[brittle jacinth]

not for what i know if it happened it was fast and no @ was made

[frozen nimbus]

Nope, just making crap up for views without thinking about any off the implications

[green plank]

"leaking" is an odd term, in that context

[rain valley]

There should be a mechanism for drawing straws to answer someone in Discord...

[wind hare]

Stop the Zeno, Aye

[worthy ivy]

fairly sure that's not a real story? but tend to avoid the drama videos, so can't say for sure
but pretty sure it's BS

[idle hill]

I haven't heard a thing about thor sending dms here

[clear raft]

Take what im about to say very lightly. Your friend is correct that I don't understand the eu process but at the same time as I watch our government in America I lose faith in government in general. This take (that of not having faith in government) isn't my logical take but rather my emotional take.

[rain valley]

This was some rando in a comment, so not for views, but probably for hate related reasons... 😑

[rancid mauve]

are we going to get "one guyed" by a rando YT comment?

[green plank]

if a weirdo content creator starts sending me shit in dms, im allowed to share that with my buddies

for context

[frozen nimbus]

Oh sorry miss read 😔

[tight bramble]

As an american veteran. I feel your pain 😞

[rain valley]

Literally? Every time you stand up? >.>

[radiant escarp]

First thing's first, is the person claiming that even in discord?

[north lintel]

Im pretty sure if anything remotely like that happened involving dms with JSH and Charlie the dramasloppers would be over it like a rash

[tight bramble]

The old man grunts and everything lol

[wispy plover]

My honest take on this? Ross used the WoW drama against Thor knowing people would crap on him and sign his lil document.

10 months ago when all of this started, it was talked about for a couple days, a few ppl got mad, and then it was over. Then this happens, and finally when it's about to fail, Ross puts out his video, (surprisingly without "In the Arms of an Angel" playing in the background. Complains about Thor for 30+ mins of an hour+ video.

Now suddenly everyone cares and is making a video? Nah. I know that sounds a bit "tin foil hat" but also with his reaction, not bothering to reel in his community, and everyone being on the attack... Nah. He knew exactly what he was doing. It probably just blew up better than he hoped for.

[green plank]

im gonna leak the "i love you" message i texted to my mom guys, this drama is gonna be crazy

[rain valley]

Trust me, you don't have to walk me through this, I figured asking (since the topic was already going) was a short way to get positive confirmation if it was actually something that happened 😄

[nova bough]

yeah. i was more speaking towards he said we dont understand the EU process and he does. i dont believe he does, either.

[frozen nimbus]

Could've done it months ago, but nah hes gonna try and disprove thors claims right as his thing is about to end for drama farming

[wind hare]

Wait, did Ross talk about the WoW drama? I must have missed that side of things

[frozen nimbus]

And ofc its working as well

The things at 75%

[clear raft]

Thank you for you're service. You don't decide what our government sends you to do you just answer the call and hope that you're county makes the right decision given that they have more information than you.

[frozen nimbus]

Goes up like 2% daily

[worthy ivy]

ngl I like my tinfoil hat - keeps the old think-box cool

good thermal conductivity

[green plank]

wait... does ross have a patreon...?

[north lintel]

I dont think even the EU understands the spaghetti code that is EU process.

[worthy ivy]

and in this heat...

[rancid mauve]

It is very weird that SKG basically disappeared from the zeitgeist till now. It really feels like I need to make a hat with my tin foil with how things have been going.

[wispy plover]

Idk that he did, but I know he was aware of it. I did hear someone say he said something, but I have not sourced it because I don't care enough.

[round bolt]

I still feel like the entire wow drama boils down to miscommunication amidst party members in a situation that people apparently are not aware of the stakes for.

[frozen nimbus]

Thats barely the problem

[nova bough]

no we dont need to rehash wow drama

noooope

begone

[frozen nimbus]

The problem was raiding, sending death threats, review bombing, telling people to kill themselves, and other stuff, over a video game

[brittle jacinth]

not from what i know and i did watch all of his monthly vid

[clear raft]

This sounds very plausible as I didn't here about this until today yet it started 10 months ago

[round bolt]

No I'm saying it doesn't need to be rehashed because that perfectly describes the entirety of what happened.

[wispy plover]

It boils down to the group was bad.

[round bolt]

And nobody else should be getting angry about it.

[boreal flower]

makes you wonder what he stands to gain in the end if this initiative goes through, or maybe i'm just being too cynical of things atm =_=

[rain valley]

Nope, but he does have a website with a donations tracker and one-time payments portal (also crypto, which... lawl)

[green plank]

you know, this could be an "acceleration" type thing... i imagine if all the drama from every angle all goes off at the same time... eventually people will spin around and start going "man this is just... a lot?"

[wind hare]

I mean its happening again right now. Youtubers LOVE to dogpile onto drama for views. The WoW stuff happened and people who were not involved HAD to make a video on it. Same stuff here. None of them cared for 10 months before because it wouldn't have gotten them a view. Now they do. All money farming

[brittle jacinth]

From what Ross said he just want to make it pass no matter what it will take (get 1million signature)

[fluid dome]

Yamato flaking out after calling run basically and getting the whole team killed

[green plank]

like where its so much drama it loops into being odd and comical and kinda not believable

[nova bough]

july 31st is the last day for the petition. going to be interested in what the EU says

[north lintel]

I think Ross genuinely just wants what he thinks is best for consumers and also he genuinely wants to preserve games. Critique his tactics by all means but hes been championing this for like 10 years in some form or another.

[green plank]

thats my birthday :/

[wind hare]

I hope Karma is a real thing just for people who say that

[green plank]

consumer, i hardly know her!

[tight bramble]

Yeahhh.....hopefully lol

[rain valley]

So, if you're wondering if there's a financial incentive, the donations page has a history, and he pulled in like 4-5x the previous monthly average in June. 16k vs 3-4k from the looks of things

[nova bough]

...10 years and SKG is what he came up with?

[round bolt]

I'm just hoping the VA doesn't suck in your area.

[green plank]

i was thinking that

[round bolt]

Sucks for a friend of mine

[worthy ivy]

<insert comedy drum splash here>

[wispy plover]

I wouldn't see him needing to make a talk on that as it would actually make him look bad if that makes sense? Just something I heard without source. He knows though. I can guarantee that. He harbors a grudge and the WoW thing is all over the internet. If he didn't harbor one, he wouldn't have talked about Thor for 30+ mins and blamed him for the failure of his own failing movement.

[frozen nimbus]

Ross definitely has some good intentions, we are criticizing the flaws in the initiative

[wind hare]

I feel like a lot of problems with the VA are just people not understanding how the system works. They believe it's like private insurence when its not

[north lintel]

Im out of energy for debating the merits of SKG for today but just so you know I largely agree with the idea.

[rain valley]

One thing I'll also note that left a sour taste in my mouth. In the GN video Ross says he answered a bunch of stuff in his recent Q&A video, and says it's "got timestamps" which is technically true... there's one for "update on SKG" and one for "answering viewer questions" 😑

[fluid dome]

Excellent, we can argue about the complexities of which shape is better instead

[tight bramble]

Dude the va sucks everywhere lol at one point the sheer volume of paper claims was threatening go collapse the second floor of their admin building.

[round bolt]

Lol Jesus Christ

[nova bough]

oh thats fine. id just figure if this is the capstone of 10 years of work... he had the time to talk to devs. or figure out a a petition simular to what has actually passed and done good

[brittle jacinth]

What's VA?

[tight bramble]

Veterans administration

[north lintel]

Rhombus, without question

[rain valley]

I don't think anyone is saying the general idea is bad, but the details are a major issue. Like, Ross and others are acting like it's a minor problem for game devs to have to work around, but there are certain games that literally could not be made if they have to meet the legal definition of a "playable state" after any servers shut down...

[wind hare]

Thats one building, and I wouldn't say a statement like "Everywhere" unless you have been "everywhere"

[rain valley]

So those games either need a carve-out, or they either won't get made or won't be sold in the EU...

[round bolt]

At this point, I think the skg debates energy would be better focused on a bunch of shitty drafts of a new initiative that people can hodgepodge together at a later date

Monkeys with typewriters style

[fluid dome]

So you hate parallelograms? Wow, what a fascist /j

[nova bough]

its very vague in an industry that does not do well with vague, with lawmakers who dont do IT

[rancid mauve]

yup, I think its generally agreed the sprit of the inititive of SKG, everyone agrees with. Its just the approach and attitude towards it that is being criticized.

[north lintel]

There are a lot of people here who think the general idea is bad. But like i said ive done enough debating on it for one day.

[brittle jacinth]

And thats if there's no legal loopholes that f*ck the customers even more than right now

[clear raft]

This is my biggest problem with this whole thing is that the law makers don't know what to think or even where to start (edit - I should have said in my opinion)

[rain valley]

It feels like part of the issue is that monkeys with typewriters is sorta how things got where they are, what's actually needed are legal and technical experts >.>

Maybe the people actually working on the initiative in the EU have some of that expertise, but I really do have questions if that's the case...

[nova bough]

this is why i think even if it does get through they will throw it out

[round bolt]

The problem according to other folks is that it was just one guy

So, if a lot of folks spit ball that's already moving in the right direction

[rancid mauve]

and why I think it will become a "monkey's paw" result

[rain valley]

I mean the very general idea of "you should be able to play at least most of your purchased games if some server somewhere shuts down", every objection and problem I've heard that doesn't involve an Ubisoft exec making farting noises at a microphone is all about details.

[nova bough]

flashbacks to US lawmakers asking zuck about basic IT stuff

[clear raft]

Nooo please don't do this to me

[rancid mauve]

or with Tik Tok... "so does the app access the internet?"

[fluid dome]

The 1 Corey in the House player when their game is not preserved:

[boreal flower]

also doesn't help that much of their marketing and pr strategy seems to be 'point and yell at this one guy so we can pad the numbers with hate signers' that ends up diluting the intent of people who actually cared at first and are now gonna be lost in the muck

[round bolt]

Something something net neutrality

[wind hare]

It's why I can't watch them talk to experts in a field. It's just insanity

[north lintel]

Anyway, as I was saying, rhombuses are the superior shape and anyone who disagrees is a doodoohead

[wet storm]

An infinite number of monkeys with an infinite number of typewriters and an infinite amount of time could eventually accidentally perform a ritual that summons an Eldritch god to our realm.

[gloomy forge]

I feel a lot of the problems people have here regarding the ambiguity of things is that people should ask for the movement to clarify on certain things.

Back when I signed I didn't think about "how would a developer do x now" but thanks to you guys i realized that its actually a valid question. If you have indie game developers who can't really make a game anymore because they have to spend constant time checking if game is compatible on this/that system that would suck.

I feel the entire movement should be build not just on consumer protection but freedom to make what you want. Because putting the burden of work on the developers who made the work would also mean they may be stiffled workong on other things. Put the burden on the team that ensures games run long lasting on a computer and not the developers of games themselves, same goes for every other tool.

[rain valley]

Are you calling me a square? 😂

[wet storm]

Oblong 🫵

[fluid dome]

I can respect the take purely because we support the same team

[round bolt]

Oblate spheroid

[fluid dome]

Beats when shapes cease to exist:

[rancid mauve]

Its a matter of approach as well, since it feels like its not being taken as seriously as it really should be. Gaming is a MASSIVE business, bigger than movies now. if you want to fight for consumer rights, you had better bring your A game with support from proper heavy hitters.

[wet storm]

Cringe

Hexagon is the bestagon

[clear raft]

Look what I have started😈!! An actual friendly and educational conversation with lots of love and understanding ❤️

[tight bramble]

"Mr zuckerman" lmao

[idle hill]

t r i a n g l e

[fluid dome]

How dare you

[north lintel]

Never mind that what shape are you supporting

[indigo wadi]

Eff your love, doodiehead

[wind hare]

I thought you guys like 7

heptagon

[brittle jacinth]

merits to you its actually rare to see it, some are coming in just to ragebait

[gloomy forge]

I would say "people be meet with an army of lawyers" but IMHO that can be taken literally. theres a lot of good intent but there will be heavy industry pushback and your argumentation has to be solid, best if you have friends within the industry too.

[river cargo]

there is a picture being covered by drama channels(won't share here) but it's doctored. many of thor's haters are framing/doctoring evidence against him

[tight bramble]

Menger sponge! 😀

[nova bough]

you were so nice i forgot i was tired of the drama

[river cargo]

only trust things from thor or the mods

[rain valley]

I think a lot of people assume this only affects really big AAA games, and that those games would automatically suck it up and conform to the law with no repercussions for anyone else.

The first is not accurate, the second is questionable, and is a trap a lot of people fall into with a lot of stuff... like people talking about game price increases going "but fewer people will buy it!" Yes, that's econ 101, if the costs/lost sales don't outweigh the increased revenue then they do the thing. In the case of SKG it becomes a question of whether the increased costs of conforming to the law are outweighed by the revenue from EU players. For at least some games I would 100% guarantee the answer would be no, with the UK out of the EU, the US being the largest game market, and China/SEA being an increasingly large part... maybe some MMOs would just go "sorry EU, not happening" 😐

[green plank]

at what point is it illegal to do that

[clear raft]

Since you @ed me I will answer. I think triangle, as it's supposedly the strongest shape. (Correct me if I'm wrong)

[river cargo]

stuff like the piratesoftware sucks website are 100% doctored images

[green plank]

can we actually just make videos like "here is the truth about what moistcritical did to my dog and ill never forgive him"

[rain valley]

I'm not shocked. I'm like 95% sure some folks were deleting their messages in stream chat the other day to make it look like the mods were censoring all discussion, not just the idiots and arseholes...

[green plank]

like just pure lies

[tight bramble]

Website? Ya know what, don't show me. Im in a good mood right now.

[wind hare]

people wouldn't get the joke

[radiant escarp]

This isn't doctored though

[nova bough]

imma be real, when it comes to new legislation, i do not give a single thought to AAA companies/publishers. i only care about how it affects indie devs and the consumer

large corps that only chase money can kick rocks

[green plank]

well my point is, at what point is this illegal

[river cargo]

it is illegal

[green plank]

like is it legal to just lie that much about a person

[river cargo]

that's why i wrote about thor suing

in one of my above comments

[wispy plover]

Damnit, now I am thinking about how Thor is going to long lemon my games again. I STILL dont know what it means.

[wind hare]

depends on the country and if you are calling it satire

[gloomy forge]

Its so over for Thorbros they got him for real with this one

[north lintel]

I will correct you because you are wrong its rhombus because rhombus is the vaguely obscure one everyone only mentions at pub quizzes.

[river cargo]

it's gone way beyond what ross originally intended aswell

[rain valley]

In general, sure, but where's that cutoff, and what good games with good people actually making them don't get made if the regulations are written like the DMCA-septic system?

[river cargo]

we have like, pewdiepie, elon musk and jacksepticeye joining the hatewagon now

[brittle jacinth]

and they will try to find loopholes to push the limit of the profit they can make

[green plank]

which is like, insane.

i also blocked all of them

[wind hare]

Elon?

[brittle jacinth]

at least they support the iniative and not callout thor (from what i know)

[distant rapids]

Slander/libel isn't a good idea anyway, because a. Itll just feed the trolls, and b. That only applies if he could prove that they knew they were lying/being malicious. Thats notoriously hard to prove.

[green plank]

did jack and pewdiepie mention thor by name?

or did they just mention skg

[wind hare]

Doesn't Elon have 47 kids he should be paying attention to?

[rancid mauve]

So i watched Sean's (Jack Septiceye) video about it, no mention of Thor at all, he just supports the inititive.

[gloomy forge]

If any of these would say "Guys, don't hate on the guy, everyone is allowed to be wrong and if he (Thor) really is malicious, maybe we invite him to have a talk so he can proof if hes coming from good faith or not." I hope Thor has something cooking for a podcast of sorts.

[brittle jacinth]

Just SKG i think

[round bolt]

Elmo muskrat has a lot of other messes he should be cleaning up

[nova bough]

all i gotta say, be careful with elon here...since hes a very political figure

[rain valley]

The immediate one that comes to mind is make the studio a separate legal entity responsible for the one game and nothing else. If the game folds and you can't/won't provide for the game's longevity, then the studio declares bankruptcy and shuts down. Good luck getting anything out of a shuttered company, and now all the devs are out of work instead of maybe being able to pitch an idea to someone else... 😑

[distant rapids]

Phew. I'm so glad. Jack always struck me as a good man in glad he hasnt jumped on a bandwagon edit: aaaaaaa now i jave to watch it to see myself. Heck.

[warped venture]

@green plank let's not get into that here.

[wispy plover]

It's at the beginning of the video. He talks about Thor misleading people.

[warped venture]

I just met you but ok

[gloomy forge]

@mortal sun The emperor protects o7

[wind hare]

But why not?

[river cargo]

yeah jacksepticeye is very subtlely throwing shade at thor the whole video

[north lintel]

I love him full homo

[brittle jacinth]

easier one... subscription based game like WoW or ff14

[gloomy forge]

The emperor protecc

But he can also attacc

[rancid mauve]

I also poked around on the comments, and its mostly free of the hate bandwagon. Sean (Jack) thankfully does try to stay away from drama when possible.

[rain valley]

Assuming there's even a carve-out for them in whatever hypothetical legislation. Like, WoW sold boxed copies. For over a decade.

Hells maybe they still do, I can't remember

[nova bough]

some of my coworkers are Irish. they're nice people

[wind hare]

And racism has entered the chat

[distant rapids]

Woah there, but also i forgot his name is sean. Just because his username, yaknow

[north lintel]

Speaking as a British, Jack may be Irish but hes one of the good ones.

[rancid mauve]

Sean is is real name, Jack Septiceye is his moniker. The name came from when he was a kid, and got pink eye, thats where the "septiceye" comes from

[radiant escarp]

Mu brother still has a hard copy of Overwatch 1

[river cargo]

jacksepticeye: "someone like piratesoftware has gone out and done a horrible video on it[stopkillinggames]"

[distant rapids]

Your name is vain?

[wet storm]

Skill issue

Even skill issue has two names

[river cargo]

he says that in the video so I think he intended to throw shade

[rain valley]

@Vain Not funny mate, maybe lets turn this bus around now before it pulls an Italian Job?

[north lintel]

Probably thinks that song is about him

[hasty grail]

https://youtu.be/bscBYTMg4sE
for something slightly different

[rain valley]

I'm saying maybe don't make jokes like that. It's hard to tell who is actually joking, and that in turn normalizes some actually horrible behavior...

[opaque raven]

Ok, I'm off to play some League
Might be back if I survive the journey

[clear raft]

I love this guy

[north lintel]

Nuclear take

[rain valley]

I'm not a mod, so I have no enforcement anything, this is just me asking

[rancid mauve]

i need to rewatch JackSepticeye's video

[wind hare]

You are trying to start a World War, sheesh

[rain valley]

Also maybe put the beer down 😅

[nova bough]

entirely real, both bud light and Guinness are terrible

[rain valley]

Not the beer chat, but whatever you're drinking. Mehaps you've had enough...

[plucky quail]

its the same generic stuff everybody else is saying he only has like a single sentence about thor

[north lintel]

American beer isnt even legally beer in any real country

[clear raft]

Educate me

[wispy plover]

If you can get Guinness on tap, its much better than the bottle or can.

[opaque raven]

I actually have a certification that legally allows me to pour and judge Guiness around the world.
You need to do some pretty cool training at their factory and it's amazing to see how everything works

[wispy plover]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-thats-bait-tom-hardy-mad-max-gif-5055384

[gloomy forge]

lively chat.

[river cargo]

he also says "something like the piratesoftware video is just so desperate to be a contrarian about something" which is straight up slander, esp when it comes from jack

[north lintel]

Im just taking the piss PINK

[rain valley]

So, fun fact, Budweisser's history is actually really interesting, and part of why it became so big is because the whole idea that you could open two cans of beer on opposite sides of the country six months apart and have them taste basically the same was like black magic when they first pulled it off. Before that any given beer would change taste batch to batch, let alone in different places.

[tight bramble]

Guinness for me, please!

[clear raft]

Ahh I was ready to learn things

[rancid mauve]

https://youtu.be/b_5WIzkM0r8?si=b3sr0JHqnHJ9PdGK&t=126

[brazen drift]

Bold video from someone who didn't do any videos on it for 9 months

[wet storm]

Guinness with blackcurrant is goated

[nova bough]

even when i did drink, i never found a single beer i liked. i drank fruity stuff.

i dont drink at all anymore because even one drink makes me not sleep well

[tight bramble]

Like a nice loaf of bread

[north lintel]

Now THIS is a take

[radiant escarp]

oh hey, one of the 30 videos I had pop up after I ended up watching the 1 video about it my friend sent me.

[wet storm]

FACTS BRO

[round bolt]

I'm glad I don't drink alcohol, only because I would probably be very large

[wind hare]

Killian's is Amazing

[wet storm]

It's like drinking a loaf of dark bread with jam

[round bolt]

I'm picky with food as well, otherwise I would be very large

Like TLC channel TV show large

[idle hill]

I don't drink alcohol, but I do enjoy seeing this talk

[clear raft]

I have never been so invested in a community discord

[rancid mauve]

his statement, does include that he unfortunately says that "Piratesoftware has gone out and done a horrible video on it, misrepresenting what it is, giving a ton of misinformation, and actually kind of killing the initiative from the get-go"

[wet storm]

My choice is IPAs tho personally

[round bolt]

For a snack this morning I had a couple of Hawaiian rolls with this cinnamon honey butter I found at the store

Very nice

[north lintel]

I am not picky with food or drink and I will have you know that I am a fat bastard.

[wispy plover]

That's valid. I am more of a hard alcohol person if I am gonna drink. I did used to drink stuff like Blue Moon, but my body decided to give me an allergy to hops after I turned 30. Sooo no beer for me anyways. Outside of like Modelo. It doesn't hurt me.

[clear raft]

Wtf man

[wet storm]

I used to drink this. On tap, bottled, canned, anywhere

Insert joker meme

[nova bough]

ah yes, the whole "having an opinion that doesnt support mine is misinformation "

[wet storm]

We live in a society

[gloomy forge]

It became clear that most people who talk about this topic see it as a litmus test. "If I say something that is a different interpretation of what is accepted the hatemob cometh so I try to be charitable."

Because Thor spoke out semi-against it and you know how that turned out.

[wet storm]

Part of why I like joker. It was cheap

[wind hare]

First you said that Bud was good and now that you like the tatse of an IPA? I think you need to go see a Doctor

[nova bough]

yea mine seems to be all alcohol. which is a shame because i loved whiskey; especially scotch.

[wet storm]

On tap in a student pub inz Edinburgh you could get them for twofiddy

But that's 6 years ago

[clear raft]

Why is jack saying this stuff. If Jack says it surely he can't be wrong. Ahhh I hate this. Jack STOP plz

[wet storm]

Dear god it's been six years since six years ago

[round bolt]

Oh

[wispy plover]

that's so rough. 😦

[wet storm]

https://tenor.com/view/savingprivateryan-ww2-old-soldier-matt-damon-gif-4203998

[round bolt]

It seems some ordinary gamers made another video about Thor

[brittle jacinth]

The main problem is that its one voice against all and one that doesn't go back on it (wich is fine)

[tight bramble]

BREAD FOR THE BREAD MODS!!

[brittle jacinth]

Bread

[wind hare]

He's just a person who puts videos on Youtube for money

[rancid mauve]

I understand that it tends to be a good idea to keep your head down when the situation is hot. unfortunately, yes, Thor did have a bad approach, very abrasive. as far as I know, Thor has not explicitly said he was against the idea of SKG

[brittle jacinth]

when can mod have bread

[wet storm]

BUNS FOR THE BUN THRONE

[north lintel]

Jack is a normal person who like any normal person, will sometimes say things that arent quite correct.

[brazen drift]

Thor did say that it was ass and that he was going to actively tell people not to sign it

[brittle jacinth]

he said it was against the way/iniative from what i know

[clear raft]

Still makes me sad seeing people I watch fighting

[tight bramble]

Mod can have bread any time. All time.

[brittle jacinth]

Welcome to the internet you should know by know if you've watch drama before

[nova bough]

hes against the actual wording of the petition; its too vauge and can hurt indie devs.

hes for the heart of it, if it was worded better.

[north lintel]

Well, not to scratch old wounds but him saying "I will actively tell people not to support this" wasnt a great optical move.

[clear raft]

Good take. Makes me feel better

[rancid mauve]

Jack (Sean) is not uploading for money. He has more than enough to retire and live extremely comfortably for the rest of this life.

[wind hare]

I get it, I unsubscribed from someone because of repeated stuff like this. Just have to let go and remember that those people don't know you or care about you as a person, so why do you care about them more?

[tight bramble]

If markiplier puts a video up about it im going to be upset.

[plucky quail]

at the end of the day the core arguement of SKG is pretty good and lots of people have faith in lawmakers and yknow maybe they are right but people with that perspective are going to fundementally disagree with thor and see him as hostile, especially because he is an abbrasive guy

[nova bough]

if i remember right, in that take he was already getting a lot of hate? like doesnt nessarily excuse it, but it does explain it.

[wispy plover]

Perhaps. But that's also the risk you run when you ask for an opinion.

Like not to be contrarian. Just sayin in general

[plucky quail]

lol mark stays out of everything political or dramatic hes far to busy to spend his time on this stuff

[brazen drift]

If markiplier does make a video on it I'd lke to hope he wouldnt actively mention thor

[clear raft]

I've actually never really watched internet drama before. I try to stay away but now I know all of these people and I dont like it one bit.

[wind hare]

That does't mean he is still doing Youtube for money. It's his job and if he stopped I am sure he would get bored.

[brittle jacinth]

GOOD FAITH and LAWMAKER in the same sentence??

[wet storm]

Fwiw They're more than one take over one subject. If you'd still like them without his opinion on SKG then I believe it doesn't change them that much

[north lintel]

Yeah im not personally bothered by it but boy does that particular clip get played

[distant rapids]

Not a good optical move, but an honest one. Why are we judging someone for believing a movement is badly written and thus wanting to warn friends? That is his opinion, and he has a right to it like anyone else. Like, friends don't let friends play overwatch 2 thing.

[plucky quail]

thats been my take as well, dont trust lawmakers

[tight bramble]

Yeah that's true I hadn't thought of that. I can't wait for iron lung.

[wispy plover]

I had this exact thought earlier and I dont know what I'm gonna think if that happens...

[plucky quail]

SO EXCITED FOR IRON LUNG

[nova bough]

they're always going to take the clip that makes him look the worst.

[gloomy forge]

Yeah I feel that as well, Thor did a lot of PR disasters BUT it also makes him genuine, I just feel that he should actually really talk about SKG again and maybe spend a day talking about it in detail, looking into the thing and maybe add more examples to it to give examples form his perspective. If Thor emphasizes honestly but also udnerstands that there were misunderstandings/misinterpretations people would understand.

[wet storm]

Idk, so did Charlie for years

It was a shocker to see his video

[tight bramble]

Some of them you learn about against your will.

[wind hare]

The great thing about Mark is that he uses his money to chase his dreams, and they sometimes fail but you can see he actually wants to do the things that he does. Right now he is doing Youtube just to keep the money flowing. His heart isn't into it when he has been tryingt o get a movie cut for years now and its draining him

[plucky quail]

i follow markiplier really closely like my fav youtuber and he has been so busy he's barely posting youtube videos anymore much less focusing on drama

[rancid mauve]

yes... and also no?

He actually had an entire video about it when he decided to start uploading again. He just uploads because he enjoys it and treats it like a hobby

[tight bramble]

I still can't get over that his name is Charlie.

[wind hare]

I have a lot of respect for him

[brazen drift]

He technically did that, 10 months ago, with an entire stream and two dedicated videos.

[nova bough]

if i was in thors shoes, i wouldnt discuss it ever again. not with ross at the head. i draw the line at death threats and people telling him to kill himself

[brittle jacinth]

yeah thats fine and its amazing that you stayed away but thats how it goes watch them if you like to watch their content not what they say if its political like this do your own research before

[novel raptor]

i was wondering: people all over the posts where talking about how he talked crap to the one guy was that in a stream or something else?

[wispy plover]

yeah idk I feel like Charlie in recent times just latches on to whatever is the "it" topic and gives his two cents. I feel like at a point it wasnt like that? Idk, never consumed much of mr monotone or his content.

[north lintel]

Who tf is charlie penguin?

[distant rapids]

The sheer hypocrisy of so many of these drama suckers irk me. Yes, blame and judge Thor for doing exactly what they are doing to others. Where's Your apology for disagreement? Huh? Where is it? and when they spread misinfo? Where's THEIR apology to Thor?!

[clear raft]

Time to stay off youtube

[radiant escarp]

That's just him expressing that he has strong feelings about the subject, it isn't even "I hate this and everything it stands for" it's "this feels naïve and incomplete, I think it will likely cause more harm than good in it's current state." That's my summery of his opinion.

[tight bramble]

Yeah. I dont like it simply because my name is Charlie, and it throws me off so hard.

[gloomy forge]

@brazen drift yeah true, I mean because its fired up again, maybe he could spend and add more details or examplify opinions? I mean chat here does a good job explaining their position too.

[rancid mauve]

but yes, I think what Thor has done is create himself a PR disaster. I dont think he has any actual bad intentions, but man, his statements out there in the wild are not great for his image.

[brittle jacinth]

knowing internet i don't think they would change and would say "you're bending [slur]"

[north lintel]

Your name is Charlie Penguin?

[distant rapids]

I prefer honesty over a "good image"

[plucky quail]

i will say if thor would SAY that the CORE of SKG is good i think he would basically see this drama dissapear

[nova bough]

Time to stay off ~~youtube ~~ the internet

[nova bough]

he did. didnt help. funny how no one clips that.

[tight bramble]

Yeah i usually just brute force the algo to show me something im interested in, like architecture or motorcycles.

[distant rapids]

These people live to hate him. They would just call him a coward for "backing down" or accuse him of lying to get pr back

[brittle jacinth]

its not a youtube problem just arange your algorithm to not show it ,its "easy"

[gloomy forge]

I'm not really that involved, I think Thor insultes Ross, that was obviously childish and dumb. Thor did appologize on twitter but IMHO the best way to do that is to have a talk between two parties. Thor should appologize in a podcast. Hes not that type of guy who just insults people but its clear Thor was browsing 4chan a lot and he has a short fuse.

[north lintel]

"Too little, too late" they would cry as they feast on the scraps.

[plucky quail]

not trying to be difficult but which video? do you have the sauce theres soo many vids and streams

[wind hare]

Wish it was easier to block content you don't want

[idle hill]

Thor doesn't want to talk about SKG anymore, though
He just wants to stream and enjoy his games
People coming in asking him for info or insulting him or grandstanding in the chat are making it hard to just stream
People will come in after he makes any video or has a meaningful talk about it and continue to berate him

[wispy plover]

Wow, THE Charlie Penguin is here in Thors Discord. When the rest of the internet finds out, they are gonna be so mad at Thor.

[distant rapids]

Speaking of which, do you know where that stream is? I forget which one it is and i need it

[rancid mauve]

Its the whole thing that was brought up with Thor's chat with Dr K. Approaching things like a debate (with a smug attitude) when the other side is super emotional about things... is a recipe for pitchforks and torches.

[nova bough]

i saw it live, so i dont have a clip

[brittle jacinth]

it is in some sort of way on yt "not interrested" does work pretty well

[tight bramble]

Bask in my presence

[distant rapids]

I remember warching it but i forget which day it was aaa why didnt i make myself a note

[wind hare]

thats only if it suggests it to you. I have clicked on channels I don't want content from and I can't block them

[plucky quail]

oh he doesnt owe anybody shit he can handle this however he wants and the people harassing thor are hella outta line

[wispy plover]

lay those sultry monotone notes on me.

[distant rapids]

Only bad thing about 12 hour vods every day

[brittle jacinth]

yeah true

[clear raft]

Well it got so good that now I the youtubers these youtubers are talking about so now I have context and go down rabbit holes much easier

[novel raptor]

seeing the posts about how he wanted to destroy the movement was confusing

[north lintel]

"Bask in my presence you poopy buffoons"

[tight bramble]

Mine are a lot more sarcastic lol

[novel raptor]

from what i saw and read he just said he wasn't going to support it

[tight bramble]

I was thinking more along the lines of Hermaeus Mora from skyrim

[rancid mauve]

oh god, Muta is milking this cow for all its got...

[wispy plover]

Another one?

[median hornet]

It was pretty good tbh

[boreal flower]

everybody's got bills to pay, i guess /hj

[rancid mauve]

yup...

[brittle jacinth]

its the normal exagenerating of the internet cause people cannot undestand some does not have the same opinion as everyone

[rancid mauve]

again, milking that cow hard

[wispy plover]

Like no offense to this dude, I had never even HEARD of him until this crap started a few days ago

[brittle jacinth]

he's a drama farmer from what i know, so yeah

[north lintel]

Anything to keep the heat off that Nuxtaku debacle

[idle hill]

Everyone wants their spice of lie (slice of pie)

[novel raptor]

yea been seeing them all over https://www.youtube.com/shorts/L3mneZwzEx0

[wispy plover]

Seems to fit the bill for sure

[novel raptor]

everyone wants some of the drama

[gloomy forge]

I also feel a lot of people are a little bit too protective towards their favorite streamer too, goes to all sides of every issue. Its cool that we have content creators. They're people like us.

if anything positibe is that this whole drama does proof that chat is always mightier than the streamer. A lot of people think streamers are somewhat untouchable but as we can see its not the case. Power to the people and all.

[ionic sleet]

Wish some actual people with knowledge in the subject would make videos instead

[median hornet]

Eh, sometimes. Most of his content is tech dives and dark web stuff

[brittle jacinth]

milking content...

[ionic sleet]

all the content milkers

[median hornet]

Muta has had a strong voice on game preservation for years, so naturally he would be all over this topic

[brittle jacinth]

probably only sees him when theres drama or stupid thing going on on the internet

[wispy plover]

Oh god. I come from Vtuber world. Plz dont say milkers

[gloomy forge]

Skill issue not associating it with other things

[idle hill]

Nah I'mma keep watching thor because I agree, SKG could be poorly implemented into law
but I'm here because he supports people learning skills rather than using AI slop, and motivates people to make games

[nova bough]

I watch him for tech dives/cybersecurity stuff. im pretty disappointed to see him milking this

[brittle jacinth]

its not that bad? i'm in it too i don't see whats the issue

[idle hill]

[ionic sleet]

has any youtuber made a video from the law point of all this? or is it ONLY milkers?

[wispy plover]

Just some light hearted humor

[charred wolf]

Fair enough

[distant rapids]

I'm so fricking tempted. The problem is that i suck at creating videos. But like, my frustration at so much swill can only handle so much before i face it head on.

[wispy plover]

fair

[median hornet]

Three vids is a bit much, but this one I did like. He presented a handful of cool projects and old games being kept alive

[novel raptor]

yea something i think people forget is that if online games become a hassle for devs to make they will stop making them

[gloomy forge]

I'm just making jokes! don't take me too seriously.

[median hornet]

Pretty fair, unclipped rebuttles too. No out of context ranting

[ionic sleet]

Don't attempt it. it needs to have no emotional stake.

[hasty grail]

what happened?

[tight bramble]

That rolls of the tongue. Nicely done!

[wispy plover]

If you are referring to me, I took it as a joke. As was my response.

[brittle jacinth]

I like to think that devs are like artist. If a law inders their way of doing things it will hurt a lot more people than what we think

[gloomy forge]

Ahhh thats good

[ionic sleet]

Devs are artists

[distant rapids]

The best way to release emotions is to direct them to a positive cause. In this case, showing truth instead of lies.

[median hornet]

Devs are 100% artists yeah

[rancid mauve]

I decided to say here because ive been in Thor's shoes when it comes to the hate train and people thinking you are a fraud because you know more than the average person. The chat with Dr K before this latest dumpsterfire kind of is proof of the situation to me.

[novel raptor]

i need more people to approach this from a business perspective

[radiant escarp]

I've said it before, but the worst people about the drama are the people who attack the ferret rescue, calling it abusive. I've had a really stupid argument with someone over it, he was saying that "they're too cramped" I tried saying you know, theere's an exotic vet on site, and these are burrowing group animals.

[clear raft]

Alr chat Ima go touch grass and hopefully never spend another hour and a half talking to people in a community discord.

[gloomy forge]

Yeah just chill, no need to make it a litmus test of what tribe people belong to. Let SKG pass and we will see how it goes. We're talking about Europe, they're the country when it comes to protecting developers and creativity. Nobody can go against HOW to make a video game and in what way.

[gloomy forge]

@clear raft have a nice day cya around!

[ionic sleet]

thats why you get a potted plant on your desk. touch grass and never leave

[novel raptor]

fair

[nova bough]

with how this is a hate brigade, i really feel like the number is vastly inflated and wont get past verification

[gloomy forge]

All the legislature that will be discussed must put the burden on the publishers

[nova bough]

sadly indie devs are their own publisher.

[gloomy forge]

@nova bough Maybe, maybe not. We will see.

[wispy plover]

I think at this point with SKG now set to probably pass the problem is that the pro SKG people are just gonna strut around like they won the battle for peace on earth or something. Y'all ever see the meme about the pigeon playing chess? If so, same thing applies here.

[hasty grail]

until vote verification begins

[distant rapids]

Wait i need to see this meme

Show me pigeon meme please

[wispy plover]

Lemme find it

[ionic sleet]

how are people thinking its set to pass?

[tight bramble]

Like a kidney stone

[distant rapids]

Different from what i expected, but good. 7/10 pigeon

[white mica]

[ionic sleet]

lol but seriously any sources etc?

[wispy plover]

Its at 75% as of now with everyone making a new hit piece on Thor about it daily with 30 days left. It's likely now.

[hasty grail]

given current rate of votes over the past week, its reasonable to assume it will get enough votes before the end of July

[nova bough]

its been getting a lot of traction with the revival and drama. or at least the petition numbers are going up significantly

but how many of those are valid, who knows

[gloomy forge]

@nova bough Yeah thats a valid assumption but also not quite. The smaller the developer, the bigger the curve of success. titles from bigger studios are usually more pathed to the road of success than someone that makes a game for itch.io. Of course there will be the question that someone who worked on a game in their twenties, now in their 80s, isn't pushed into upholding compatibility on every little thing. Thats really chaotic. Compatbility has to be ensued through different means.

[rancid mauve]

its unfortunate, but my view is that Thor is being burnt at the stake as a witch for attention for SKG. At the same time, Thor did kind of get a bunch of bad attention, even if he isnt actually trying to be an enemy. A smug person with guts is easy to hate.

[ionic sleet]

stupid thing is a manhwa site i read at has put the banner on every endpage of every manhwa chapter

[white mica]

about skg?

[ionic sleet]

yea

[white mica]

interesting

[ionic sleet]

thought it was just that title but nope they added it to every manhwa they translate

[wispy plover]

here is the one I was talking about. Please do not overreact to it.

[nova bough]

the smaller the developer, the less money they have for infrastructure and to refactor code if it needs refactoring for EoL.

[wispy plover]

It's not the original of it, but the closest I could find

[rancid mauve]

Its a mob justice in action

[ionic sleet]

perfect

[tight bramble]

Excuse me.... what's manhwa.....

[gloomy forge]

@nova bough exactly, which is why people will argue for them to NOT carry the burden. But instead have a company make comaptbility wrappers for operating systems.

[white mica]

korean manga

[ionic sleet]

solo leveling etc

[novel raptor]

been looking at the twitter and I've seen one or two arguments that actually address anything

[rancid mauve]

Korean comics, like how manga is Japanese comics

[tight bramble]

Ah ok tanks

[nova bough]

so... only publishers. thats nowhere in the petition.

[white mica]

tanks

i had to sorry

[ionic sleet]

yea its cause people assume only publishers are doing this to games

[rain valley]

I don't believe you're sorry 😂

[tight bramble]

I expected that 🙂

TANKS!

[wispy plover]

This is also true.

[white mica]

https://tenor.com/bEG5g.gif

[tight bramble]

Love that movie

[rain valley]

It wouldn't shock me, especially with all the hate floating around right now, there's going to be some keyboard warriors doing stupid shit.

Even if it does "pass" though that's not a guarantee that any legislation happens, or that the legislation these people want happens.

[white mica]

A team is a great movie

[vernal socket]

Can someone explain something to me. I thought the initiative was to get EU to recognized that this is a problem and it needs to be tackled. I thought when the initiative gets passed then that's the time we get to sort out the nitty gritty details which might exclude live-services games for all we know in the discussion.

Obviously we could argue the opposite and ask the SKG to amend the wording to be more clear on the subject, but I reckon its a time-sensitive matter and its not possible anymore, its just feels weird to shoot down something you're only against like 20% off when there's no alternative at hand anyway. I don't get it am I missing something?

[gloomy forge]

@nova bough You are probably a skilled programmer, but I'm just posting this link for curious people. Here is one of these compatibility wrapers: https://www.winehq.org/ This is the foundations for my argument. Instead of letting dev carry the financial and time burden of working on their producs constantly because of maintainance, lets make programms like WINE. Proton, a fork if WINE, is used for Steam Deck, which is a handheld console running on Linux. WINE/Proton can run stuff that is 30 years old too.

[turbid lantern]

not much point argueing its going to reach the quota

[ionic sleet]

problem is its too late. the damage has been done. its best to just start over

[rain valley]

This is a tangent, but it's absolutely wild to me that not only did Wargaming pull out of Russia, but the Russian government declared the head of the company a 'war criminal' 😂

[tight bramble]

Yeah lol

[rain valley]

Sure, but there are some pretty hard limits to what something like that can do. No amount of wrappers is going to make an Eve Online or WoW server setup run on someone's laptop that can run the game, or possibly even a decently beefy desktop...

[radiant escarp]

you know what, since I was talking about it earlier.

my biggest takeaway is that the dude who made it is acting smug with a very "huh huh, I got you lol" attitude, who is profiting off the drama.

literally he tried to frame it as relevant to SKG and then went to talk about a completely different topic and not even correlate the issues.
https://youtu.be/Qf060PV1Yv0

[nova bough]

my background is in fintech. specifically supporting and maintaining back end infrastructure. game dev specific stuff i dont do on a day to day basis

[tight bramble]

Channel name is very on poing

[radiant escarp]

yeah, lol

[ionic sleet]

analogy needs work but its like giving an algebra test to someone who just learned how to multiply - initiative with bad wording and no info to back it up.

[gloomy forge]

@nova bough Thats actually cool as hecc, you're kinda good to have these discussions. Unfortunatly I imagine that they're very emotionally exhausting. Do any of your co workers talk about SKG if they know about it? I'm sure not.

[nova bough]

most of the stuff ive been able to contribute to the convo that crosses over with my job, is that server infrastructure is not as cheap or easy as people for SKG have made it out to be

[novel raptor]

my only thing is has anyone actually put forward any relevant ideas for maintain the severs and online modes after their shut down

[hasty grail]

whats going on with that?

[ionic sleet]

And that creating a final Patch that switches things over is also easy

[distant rapids]

You mean you don't have a toggle switch to turn on the private servers?!

[faint rapids]

Howdy

[nova bough]

i wfh, and most of my teammates arnt super into video games. there are other people that are that are in other groups that i work with on a regular basis, but i dont know their thoughs

[gloomy forge]

I mean the questions will be asked once people sit on the table, there will be quite a few people from various expertises. Game developers, hackers, etc.

[faint rapids]

Skg drama, I'm so surprised lol

[brittle jacinth]

yeah it comes and go

depends on when you come in

[rancid mauve]

other people have differing reasons to not fully support SKG as it is right now.

For me, its a matter of the way its being approached by Ross. I understand that its been an idea hes floated around for 10 years, but if that really is the case, I would have imagined that he knows what he would be wanting to push, since even if its just a suggestion, if it goes through, real political work is going to start. From the attitude that I am seeing Ross take on the SKG initiative, I dont think he has what it takes to become a key player in a political movement for legal change.

As an example, for the US push for the right to repair, I trust most of the major players, Louis Rossman as an example, he has the right attitude, even if I dont agree with everything he says. iFixit, I support as a company, because of their work and their stances.

Again, I very much support the spirit of SKG.

[radiant escarp]

in case anyone is curious this isn't even about the SKG it's about the DMCA drama which, from my knowledge is from even longer ago

[distant rapids]

... honestly, it is an interesting topic. I DO like debating with people who are capable of nuance. It gets my thinker thinking.

[gloomy forge]

Oh I see, I was just curious what people with expertise into these subjects think. Because from what I see. Most of the 500k signups (before the drama began) were not developers and just random people and content creators. Kinda weird because this movement involves everyone who works in tech as well as artists and people that consume art.

[rain valley]

So, lemme take a quick whack at this. Noting first, I am not currently working on any relevant games (or any games at all), and I am not a lawyer or lawmaker...

The two basic issues are, one, a weak argument is easier to shoot down if someone is so inclined. Like, Ubisoft is based in France. They get a way in this. If the proponents word things in a way that's easy for Ubisoft to come in and go "we understand how to games, this is impossible, we're really sorry but it's not just feasible without killing all our business" then the initiative is starting out of the gate at a penalty to even get anything done. They then need to walk back their own proposal's language or otherwise do a lot of work to dig themselves out of a hole...

Second, it shows a lack of understanding and research by those involved in the initiative, which leads to some of the same problems as the above but on a more general level. If this fails then it's not going to be super easy to get anyone to take it seriously again for a while, at least in the EU. The worse the proposal is, the more likely it is to fail...

Also this isn't exactly a "just 20%" thing..., it's more like "one of your five structural pillars is rotten" because they're insisting this has to be everything, it has to be left "playable" not just open to third party support, etc...

[ionic sleet]

I honestly don't think there is any way to preserve live service games without consequences unless the owner allows private servers.

the best that can be done I think is to have clear and better warnings and get the info across correctly.

a live service game is essentially a long lemon. it wont be fresh forever.

[turbid lantern]

yeah it will

[indigo wadi]

For now until the 3 month validation process AFTER the deadline

so no, it won't pass with flying colours

[ripe minnow]

Thor has never said community protect me or fight on my behalf; Thor has always said let me fight my fights and make up your own mind based on what's presented or research it yourself also he says to not go and brigade other channels for their own bad opinions.

Don't interpret his opinion for everyone's on this server

[outer cobalt]

they are aiming for 1.2 million to account for fake sigs

[gloomy forge]

Genshin Impact IS going to close at some point and so do probably every other online game.

[outer cobalt]

would be super funny if they just passed 1 mil and it tursn out that there is a lot of fakes

[nova bough]

its...been a ride. i wish it had been more targeted from the start

[indigo wadi]

Doesn't matter how many fake sigs there are. If it's fake, it'll be found out, it'll be removed. It'll result in under 1 million sigs

[distant rapids]

Yep. "Wow all these adresses don't exist. throws out votes turns out this initiative was faked. throws entire thing out for attempted fraud.
I'm calling it now, i bet this will happen.

[hasty grail]

does it close once it hits 1mil OR at the date?

[outer cobalt]

no, the movement did not involve a lot of actual game devs

[hasty grail]

just want to make sure

[novel raptor]

that brings something else into question how would in game transactions work then? who would get paid the devs or the sever owners?

[gloomy forge]

Oh no you got me wrong. I meant that Streamers and content creators shouldn't be a protected class that everyone has to parrot for. I watch PirateSoftware too and Thor says a lot that everyone should do their own research and use critical thinking. Don't outsource your thoughts.

[rain valley]

If it hits though there's a chance people will fall off in supporting, at which point fake sigs hurt them a lot...

[indigo wadi]

Ross gets charged for false initiative attempt

[tight bramble]

Is that a thing? Like international?

[rain valley]

Did you mean "Shouldn't have to parrot"? 😂

[outer cobalt]

cant wait for the lawsuits around fraudulent transactions, gdpr non compliance and copyright misuse

[distant rapids]

... i actually have no idea if the eu would consider that a crime. Hmm. Time for research

[indigo wadi]

Doubt it, but i would laugh if it was

[gloomy forge]

Yeah thats what I meant, sorry

[rain valley]

No worries, that was funny as hell, I just figured it either needed an edit or a sarcasm tag 😂

[river cargo]

honestly there's no way ross gets into legal trouble for that, otherwise it'd be too easy for foreign state actors like iran or north korea to sabotage policies

[gloomy forge]

https://tenor.com/view/stephen-fry-parrot-gif-4778147

[outer cobalt]

its not illegal, just stupid

[distant rapids]

Ow bad gif

[ionic sleet]

to the people who run the private servers. then those people would get targetted by the ip holders. that money is forever lost though

[tight bramble]

I mean at the very least you're wasting government resources and time which means you're wasting taxpayer money

[faint rapids]

Parrot software

[distant rapids]

Jfjckgkg gif cover

[rain valley]

[radiant escarp]

every good pirate should have one

[outer cobalt]

because copyright is with the publishers and devs(as mentioned in skg website) ALL private servers have to pay a license to use said copyright

lmao

[indigo wadi]

mmhmm

[rain valley]

For anyone who may not know, you can turn off gif autoplay in the settings so they only play when clicked or hovered over...

[outer cobalt]

folks, you did not think this through.

[distant rapids]

Thor should make a parrot vtuber. Just because

[tight bramble]

Do you feel in charge?

[novel raptor]

hmmm why do i feel a price tag will come along with those severs

[outer cobalt]

yesterday someone asked if its ok for publishers and devs to charge for providing EOL games as a service. there was an uproar

now imagine if their brains thought about licensing.

[rancid mauve]

Parrot Vtuber already spends all day scouring 4Ch for the schizto ramblings of /vt/

[novel raptor]

baby steps

[opaque raven]

Nah
Well, not in this case at least. There are cases where it is considered cartel attempt when pushing something that would extremely voluntarily only benefits your part of a certain industry. This includes also corporatism ofc

[tight bramble]

Nope. Your mistake must be shamed

[rain valley]

strictly speaking as long as you're not using any of the original server code then writing your own servers generally isn't illegal, because the server code doesn't contain any copywritable assets like art. This is how Ragnarok Online private servers existing for like... two decades at this point?

[outer cobalt]

also, because of copyright protections, ALL private servers will need to preserve DRM or it will be illegal.

yay

[tight bramble]

Ah ok. Thank you for researching!

[outer cobalt]

so even though you bought a single player game you still need to be online for DRM

[rain valley]

The client is free, and the servers are a community creation

[ionic sleet]

its still infringing on the copyright though

[outer cobalt]

thats only because RO is out of jurisdiction for most private servers. it is still illegal to do it in the EU

[novel raptor]

whats different about what they are saying and stuff like emulators?

[rain valley]

Distribution of the client or use of the name would infringe, potentially, but the server code itself generally wouldn't, at least under US law

[ionic sleet]

emulate

[outer cobalt]

also illegal.

[tight bramble]

Kernel level drm. If you don't use their endgame build it fries your cpu lol

[outer cobalt]

in the EU.

the USA has consumer protections for this

ironic, eh?

[ionic sleet]

I would just ignore US law in regards to the topic at this point. too many problems to deal with

[outer cobalt]

so its technically ok to do this in the USA, but overall ILLEGAL to do any of this in the EU

[outer cobalt]

US laws are simple regarding this. EU laws on the other hand.

SKG folks simply did not consult anyone important on this.

[golden latch]

Wait isnt khronos his parrot?

[ionic sleet]

EU laws at least aren't fully disconnected from common sense

[novel raptor]

i have a gut feeling that none of this will ever get passed if it comes to the U.S

[outer cobalt]

you wanna check copyright laws in the EU? LMAO

[outer cobalt]

the US already has fair use laws.

[ripe minnow]

I know parrot Vtuber that scours the web for the most unhinged takes and only decides it with parrot language and not english at all and all your left is with is confusing videos

[outer cobalt]

its why modding is super popular in the USA
its legal.

[rancid mauve]

again, given the attitude that SKG exudes, im expecting a "and thus the monkey's paw curls" outcome.

[outer cobalt]

heck, if the crew was a US game there would be a russian modder who cracked the game by now

and its legal.

[outer cobalt]

definitely.

[warm trench]

More like a friend. It's good to have friends.

[opaque raven]

It's kinda funny because I'm actually admin and checker on speedrun .com and many times we need to touch this part of the law when we offer downgraded versions of games for runners (all in agreement with the companies, it's pretty cool actually)

[novel raptor]

cool

[outer cobalt]

its ironic that the petition was started by an America who is unaware of BOTH US and EU laws, in the EU

[tight bramble]

Actually how about local anticheat? If you're caught cheating, the game director shows up at your house and kicks you in the shins.

[ionic sleet]

but its a simple win?

cant believe he said this though

[tender field]

Did anyone else watch the new SOG/Muta video? I think he just shrugged off the DDOSing servers issue, then for the rest of the video went like, "this implies that Thor doesn't want to preserve games".
Looks like he's watched both of Thor's videos, but still insane take.

I'm fine with people defending SKG, but why attack Thor in the process?

[outer cobalt]

cos people dont want facts, they want a gamer moment

"we did it gamers"

its the gamestop moment

[gloomy forge]

because

[rain valley]

Also there's some people who just hate Thor for... reasons, and are using this as their latest way to get a dogpile going

[gloomy forge]

Its easy money, people love to hate on thor, more thor hate = more clicks and discussions.

[nova bough]

so many meetings with boomers discussing memes.

it was actually hilarious to witness

[tight bramble]

"Is the pirate software in the room with us right now?"

[gloomy forge]

I feel if people really hate on him they should just watch the entire video and pause it every few seconds to comment where he is right and wrong. I mean in general the SKG critic videos aren't horrible videos at all. Only the short felt bad.

[opaque raven]

My policy is very simple and very direct:
Is the video about the subject monetized? Yes? Thn I don't care about it
If you care about the message, the initiate and the argument and not about the drama or view farming, thn remove the monetization.

But sadly only person has done this so far...

[novel raptor]

2 reasons which have been shown 1. he dissagrees with the popular opionn and 2. he talked crap about the main SKG guy and he earned some of that hate but he has apoligized for it

[rain valley]

I haven't heard everything he's said regarding Ross, but I do agree with the bit about not wanting to debate him... after watching his GN interview I get the feeling the guy runs more on "vibes" than "facts" >.>

[nova bough]

SKG is full of vibes and people who didnt read the initiative and think about it from a software dev position

[gloomy forge]

yeah a movement shouldn't be debated, its just about agreeing or not about details.

[indigo wadi]

consuumers don't care, they consuum

[round bolt]

Mutahar seems to focus a lot on the skg initiative not being retroactive

[novel raptor]

yea also i find it funny Thor is being nailed for defamation of character but isn't that what he also did just to lawyers and politicians

[indigo wadi]

it can't be made retroactive

[rain valley]

Yes, but Ross specifically gives me this feeling of... having some genuine feelings, but being very prone to letting things get away from him, or wandering into outright lying because he knows what he wants to be able to say and maybe... fudges things a bit, elaborates, fudges some more... etc 😐

[indigo wadi]

everyone wants an easy win, but you don't say it out loud

[round bolt]

Why is that?

[ionic sleet]

I think thats part of the job

for politicians and lawyers

[rain valley]

Like saying that the Q&A video "has timestamps" when it has two, "Update" and "Viewer Questions Answered" 😐

[gloomy forge]

You can make arguments regarding "games on a store are subject to" kinda legal writing but laws can never be retroactively put in place.

[indigo wadi]

You expect companies of old IPs to go back and do dev work? It's nearly impossible to enact it retroactively from an IP/Copyright matter

[river cargo]

because alot of games weren't designed to have this initiative in mind

but it also goes to show that thor is right

skg will kill games

it already kills current games, all it will do is restrict future games

[faint rapids]

Imagine hating some dude you just found out about for a week lol

[ionic sleet]

someone said to me that since it was possible 25 years ago its possible now.

real disconnect

[opaque raven]

That's why I, despite all chaos, value a LOT those that come here and talk.
We have people here that are already present for days, with very aggressive opinions, very hard shells, but at least they are here, talking. I know it's stressful for many but I honestly value this a lot.

If you are here for days, talking, arguing, and has not been banned or muted due to trolling, cursing and name calling, let it be know that I strongly appreciate your presence and voice, regardless of side ☀️

[round bolt]

That's literally the opposite of what was said. Muda mentioned that it isn't retroactive in the sense that it would not apply to games that exist right now

[tender field]

I think SKG is open to developer input. Has no other dev responded to this? I mean, I could see why they wouldn't. Dumbass people will just reviewbomb their games.

[novel raptor]

i think that it wont kill games but it will kill any incentive to make a game with onilne functions

[round bolt]

That was the point being made

[river cargo]

that may aswell be killing games

[rain valley]

It's a legal principle called "Ex Post Facto", generally there need to be extraordinary circumstances for such a law to be made in any country remotely related to the western legal system.

[indigo wadi]

that's...not how retroactive works?

[hasty grail]

not enough devs have said their piece

[gloomy forge]

I feel thats too extreme. I don't think SKG will hurt anyone, theres lots of discussions gonna take place, EU handles things differently.

[faint rapids]

Guys don't ever buy a TCL tablet lol

[round bolt]

Retroactive means it applies to things that existed before. Not retroactive means the opposite of that.

[indigo wadi]

IF SKG does become a thing and law, it would need to go from new games going forward. Not currently, not old games

[gloomy forge]

"Not retroactive means the opposite..." - Its also known as proactive.

[rain valley]

For reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law

[indigo wadi]

Yes, I'm saying SKG cannot be applied retroactively because it would be near impossible to enforce it.

[ionic sleet]

when i see something like ashes of creation, i think "how does skg expect a game like that to work"

[round bolt]

I am saying it would not be applied retroactively.

[indigo wadi]

Then I'm confused what the point is?

[round bolt]

The point is it would not affect existing games if it is not retroactive. And that that is a point that mutahar was raising.

[rain valley]

Never mind enforce it, doing that would be literally illegal in several EU countries 😂

[round bolt]

And you seem to have interpreted what I said as the inverse

But don't worry I think it's insane to try and retroactively apply it

And I would think it would be ridiculous for anyone to expect that

[indigo wadi]

You initially said that Muta was raising the point that it would be applied retroactively. Now you're saying the opposite.

Hence me being confused.

[boreal flower]

what about games that are in active development right now?

[tender field]

Yes

[rain valley]

I'm suspecting of a typo here...

[boreal flower]

would they be considered pre-skg or post if this goes through?

[rain valley]

Even if something were passed it would have to have a date after which it would come into effect for new products, otherwise a lot of stuff would just not get released in the EU. Modern AAA games have a ~5 year dev cycle, and stuff like engine and architecture are decided early and generally can't be easily changed once you're into development.

[opaque raven]

It's impossible to say but a very wild guess is that cases before it could be grandfathered. We have situations like this on the wine industry for laws that changed with products still in production (wine can easily take decades on production)

[boreal flower]

so plenty of time to see the writing on the wall and redirect new products away from the EU while leaving them with the old that won't be affected =_=

[boreal flower]

kinda half paying attention as i'm cooking dinner rn

[opaque raven]

If someone is interested pls search for grandfather policy/clauses. I can explain a little but not right now

[indigo wadi]

ah, seems i missed a word, whoops

[boreal flower]

okay that's a phrase i can look up at least and get some reading in while my soup simmers

[novel raptor]

what you making

[boreal flower]

it's kind of a hodgepodge stew of pasta, slow-cooked beans, spices and seasonings, and bacon ends and pieces for the fat and savoriness

[faint rapids]

No bread 0/10

[novel raptor]

nice

[boreal flower]

i used up my french bread already UnU

[novel raptor]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[boreal flower]

used them to make lil dessert sandwiches a few days ago, spread strawberry cream cheese with strawberry preserves on top, dollop of whipped cream, very tasty

[novel raptor]

As a 290lb big back this is making me hungry

[boreal flower]

if you want a snack sized cheesecake, use cream cheese on a graham cracker

cheaper than buying a whole pie that you then gotta struggle through in a short window of time

the cream cheese keeps for longer and can be used in other recipies and you can get a box of graham crackers pretty inexpensive

[novel raptor]

Fair, i tend to use vanilla ice cream with chopped strawberrys and bannas mixed in

[opaque raven]

Banana mentioned!!!!
🍌 🍌🍌🍌🍌

[rancid mauve]

my snack at the moment is yogurt with granola and honey

[novel raptor]

nice

[novel raptor]

what kind of yorgurt

[ionic sleet]

"Yawgurt"

[rancid mauve]

plain greek yogurt, though a good organic grass fed also works

I like the tartness of the plain yogurt, the honey lets you control how sweet you want it

[novel raptor]

fair

[rancid mauve]

the granola gives it texture, nice crispy and crunchy body

[novel raptor]

i wont lie cant speak on anyone elses food preferences as i like bannana pudding ice cream

[rancid mauve]

a banana cream pie would be good too

[novel raptor]

yo facts

[rancid mauve]

I feel like banana cream pie is underrated, since its the default when you think of "pie to face" prank

not enough people have tried them I feel

[novel raptor]

cant lie tho i not a huge fan of apple pies

[tight bramble]

Tiramisu...anyone?

[novel raptor]

hell yea

[boreal flower]

OwO tiramisu~

[ripe minnow]

I can only have trimisu at afternoon

[boreal flower]

very much love it, that and key lime pie and strawberry cheesecake

[novel raptor]

real question how big the slice

[rancid mauve]

just apple pie is good, but not great. slap some vanilla ice cream on top though... ill inhale that

[tight bramble]

Slice? Uh....sheetpan?

[novel raptor]

real talk what yall think of ice cream cakes

[round bolt]

I like ice cream cakes but damn are they hard to keep cold

[rancid mauve]

though, I feel like vanilla ice cream on most pies makes it S tier. lol

[boreal flower]

tasty but difficult to keep for longer than a day

[novel raptor]

my mother didnt relize ice creams cake had to be put into a frezzer and melted it

that was a fun birthday

[round bolt]

Oh no

[rancid mauve]

oh god, now im thinking about vanilla ice cream on a chicken pot pie...

[novel raptor]

its ok it made a great drink

[golden latch]

😋

[livid path]

What in the unholy clickbait hell

[warm trench]

Thor said he has in fact not sued anyone.

[novel raptor]

just rage baiters or content farmers you just gotta ingnore it

[livid path]

Like I’m unphased by the normal shit by now but we just making up false legal charges now?

[rancid mauve]

ah, more milking the cow... its one hell of a cow