streamchat

[wet storm]

You're based

[fickle bluff]

Maybe. Possibly. Not my point, though.

Big game companies, that have the power to affect the landscape of the entire industry, are run by greedy swines in human clothing. They care for nothing, except creating profits. So let's give them an option to create some profit out of smth they were gonna just throw in the trash anyway. They'll do all the heavy lifting and thinking for us.

[jolly sky]

Yes, force 2x the work onto 4 people, or hire 4 more people to work on it. And 4 people is just an estimate. That shit adds up fast.

[thick ledge]

Based on what

[idle falcon]

"Kill live service games" as it is aimed at allowing consumers of said games to keep playing them after they have reached end of life,

[wet storm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrNu-SuFF_o

[thick ledge]

Lmao

[idle falcon]

https://youtu.be/8CQH-vTaczM?si=qkrVApmNZqWyRUMN Legendary Drops brings up some good points here

[wet storm]

I was in a server that had a bot that would reply and link this video instantly whenever someone said "Based on what"

[past harbor]

and yet, just like CVAA"s intention was to allow people with disabilities to enjoy games. It mostly resulted in a lot of games just removing communication features entirely because the extra cost was deemed unfeasible.

[jolly sky]

How do you suggest an customer will be able to fork the costs to run a cluster of machines to make the Live Service part still work? It's not all done off of one machine.

[thick ledge]

Me when I argue about videogames on the internet https://youtube.com/shorts/cW_m1thpPs0?si=KnpNFvyC-hujB82W

[gloomy forge]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cat-meme-cat-meme-face-chips-cat-eating-gif-15310179217102583800

[worthy ivy]

it's a simple three step attack, and the first is just casing the joint

1. see game you don't want to pay for that includes live service elements
2. DDOS servers until company goes under
3. company has to "end of life" or "sunset" or whatever and players now get to run their own server for free and devs are just shit out of luck

[gloomy forge]

ignore the quote, i misclicked

[past harbor]

Donations usually. The cost is irrelevant to anything the petition is aiming for.

[idle falcon]

One solution that I see is making it to where players can host their own servers

[wet storm]

LOL

[jolly sky]

Except its not. Because if the game cannot be run from those servers, it goes back to being "not playable"

And then what

[worthy ivy]

as a recovering EVE player (aka 'winner') I can assure you that if there is an angle, someone will work it

[wet storm]

DDoS attacks are expensive man

Way more expensive than a game lol

[worthy ivy]

not if you're running a botnet they're not

[idle falcon]

It was made because of something like "The game I had paid for I can no longer play"

[thick ledge]

Depends on how much your gonna play

[opaque raven]

I'm on the Dragalia Lost recreation group and loop and it's insane the amount of work it takes...every step we take forwards it's another labyrinth of problems

[worthy ivy]

is basically free after setup

[past harbor]

and yet that still has nothing to do with the petition. Which for the record, I'm against. But you're just speaking nonsense tbh.

[wispy plover]

I forgot about this video. Thanks, I needed that laugh today

[worthy ivy]

not that I know anything about such things

[wet storm]

If you're running a botnet you're wasting money to attack a game you could pay for lol

A competitor trying to do a hostile takeover is more likely

[worthy ivy]

wouldn't buy a botnet

would just run my own

[north lintel]

Just because something is "simple" and frankly I dont think its as simple as you are making it out to be, does not mean it is likely to happen nor does it mean the company under attack would have no way to defend themselves.

[thick ledge]

For example dread hunger suffered this exact scenario, they gave out a means to host your own games peer to peer, after a Chinese bot farm kept thier services inoperable for half a year

[past harbor]

Yeah I mean I've been working on SWGEMU on and off for almost 20 years, and there's still huge chunks of the game missing.

[thick ledge]

It shuttered the company

[wet storm]

Oh god minor spelling mistake

Now it looks like bonnet

[thick ledge]

Now imagine you KNOW every game will be playable after you destroy it

[fickle bluff]

He does not. He acts with extreme prejudice against Thor and his entire rant boils down to "Thor - bad". It's clear he didn't watch Thor's videos from 10 months ago, and just piggybacks off of Ross's narrative. Honestly, very disappointing.

[jolly sky]

Except it wants the games to be playable at "End of life"

People don't have enough money to host servers, or choose not to do so. Now its no longer playable.

[thick ledge]

It'd be way more common

[gloomy forge]

https://tenor.com/view/bonnet-loccln-gif-16102834979518586310

[past harbor]

It explicitly says it wants to prevent companies from disabling games. Not giving someone a blank check to continue to run the server in their absense has nothing to do with it.

[fluid dome]

https://tenor.com/view/spelling-mistake-minor-spelling-mistake-meme-gif-23650588

[north lintel]

The vast majority of people have absolutely no idea about any of this, they just want to play games lol

[opaque raven]

So you know the impossible hard work we've been through.
I feel seen ☀️

[worthy ivy]

what?

if you look through my post history it's mainly "it's not that simple"
(and photoshopping thor's face on random stuff)

my whole point is "this thing is complicated and the one-size-fits-all law you'll get as a result of this initiative isn't going to be some easy magic bullet... and all the costs get passed down to the consumer - way of the world

it's not simple. that's the whole point

[jolly sky]

You know what, I'm tired and I can't be bothered to go through all this again. Good luck to those that stay.

[past harbor]

Oh absolutely. But it's also why I think this whole petition was dumb from the start. Making an emulator, if done correctly, is completely legal.

[idle falcon]

It is there to protect a consumers right to play the thing they own without threat of a company destroying it because they can just flip a switch

[north lintel]

Cool, i was responding specifically to what you just said, not your entire post history

[fluid dome]

You don't own the oxygen you breathe

[past harbor]

Yeah, I'm not seeing how that has anything to do with dude being too broke to afford a server.

[toxic rampart]

https://tenor.com/view/thumper-game-thumper-2016-ok-that's-cool-and-all-but-look-at-this-beetle-rhythm-game-gif-9456121085975667191

[idle falcon]

I had misread your message

[idle falcon]

You own the bottled water you buy

[kindred sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/whatever-go-my-gif-17488524981496735615

[opaque raven]

"It's the law so you have to do it" sounds easier thn the whole conversation about consequences or natural market solutions .
I'm from economics so Ive seen this dance many many times

[fluid dome]

What is SWGEMU

[worthy ivy]

no worries - but I would argue that the attack I described is pretty simple to execute
scan for open ports all that good stuff, fire off some rats, use the compromised machines to ddos, play game for free when the company folds

[toxic rampart]

https://youtu.be/u6_BjZRtJw4?si=Bk01VdeD6vUIWbOn

[opaque raven]

Star Wars Galaxies

[worthy ivy]

that's like script-kiddie level hacking

not complex

[past harbor]

This man's a genius. Remember those companies that would lease you a water cooler? We'll take it one step farther and lease the water to you too.

[north lintel]

Yes because a company consisting of intelligent software developers have no hope against a ragtag group of ddos abusers

[toxic rampart]

Gotta get it back after it's used.
They'll bring in The Pump™

[fluid dome]

Nobody owns the water, it drops out the sky ffs

[toxic rampart]

Idk, Ask Respawn how that went for like 2+ Years

[flat moat]

RIP Titanfall 2 MP, taken too soon

[idle falcon]

Therefore if no one owns the game i am paying for, then it isnt illegal to get it after it reaches EOL

[past harbor]

I mean...On the ISS an astronaut's piss is almost worth it's weight in gold

[fluid dome]

Just bc u pay a water bill to lease the water a water company provides, doesn't mean you own the company

[gloomy forge]

something something Dune reference

[opaque raven]

I find it very rare to exist something like this, a game that "no one owns" in all aspects and angles

[worthy ivy]

AAA companies do have issues with ragtag DDOS abusers - but at the minute it's just bored kids

once there is a real incentive beyond "i want to mess with this game" it will only get worse - adding incentives rarely reduces instances

[toxic rampart]

It's back, has been. Took years and countless begging campaigns and the damned Northstar fan client but they finally achknowledged the game some time last year (I think, time is a flat circle now) and updated it.

[spare topaz]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ip-crime-and-enforcement-for-businesses/ip-crime-and-enforcement-for-businesses I would suggest that isn't the wisest idea, and is in fact a crime

[past harbor]

This whole idea that people are going to DDOS game companies to extort them into releasing their games is absurd.

They could literally do that today, and it would have about the same effect.

[fluid dome]

Simply don't get caught 5head /s

[worthy ivy]

tell me you never played EVE without telling me you never played EVE

[toxic rampart]

Point is. A "Ragtag bunch of script kiddies" literally killed a AAA studios MP client and servers entirely because they wanted to.

[idle falcon]

Im not saying Im pirating

[worthy ivy]

hardcore gamers DDOS shit for giggles

[fluid dome]

I have some sense left not to play any mmo, thankfully

[worthy ivy]

them bois is off the hook

[median hornet]

New muta video dropped

[warm trench]

How are cyclic redundancy arguments going?

[past harbor]

12k hours in eve, 4 supers, including a sansha turd, and I ran highsec incursions for years. Would you like to tell me more about myself that I don't know?

[worthy ivy]

(and girls obvs)

[fluid dome]

Me when it's just more Thor bashing

[worthy ivy]

then you know peeps will DDOS over the stupidest stuff

[toxic rampart]

https://tenor.com/view/doom-revanant-gif-10462704

[north lintel]

I think youre massively overselling the idea that roving gangs of ddos bandits will start holding companies to ransom. 99.9% of consumers wont even have the faintest idea about any changes in law, fewer still would even know what a ddos attack is.

[worthy ivy]

you played more EVE than me 🙂
I won - was a good choice

[past harbor]

and you'd know that it has had absolutely zero effect on CCP

[spare topaz]

well good news for you then - if you wish to use without pirating, you can play any games released 70 years ago, as IP law would no longer apply

[past harbor]

they won't even reimburse you for your losses if they're getting DOS'd. They don't give a single f

[worthy ivy]

because EVE is hardcore and people went back later because they care about the permanent progress - but say a battle royale, or a coop shooter? players are less invested and a couple days of DDOS is enough to cause issues

[fluid dome]

Awesome, I'll see you in the street for some footie

[spare topaz]

I'll bring some hoodies to make the goals

[worthy ivy]

also, they did spend an absolute crapton of money on DDOS protection

can every dev afford that once it's not just EVE mentalist DDOSing?

I see risk

[fluid dome]

Skill issue /j

[past harbor]

That's not really true though. Every time someone loses a super or a titan over some dumb shit out of their control the chances of them losing a subscriber is pretty significant. Especially if it's a big fight like M2-

[past harbor]

Yes, you can afford cloudflare.

[worthy ivy]

people rage quit all kinds of games - how does that relate to DDOS?

[worthy ivy]

cloudflare free is it?

[median hornet]

Real, but he showcases a bunch of old games that you can play and it's pretty cool.

[worthy ivy]

cos I'm self-employed, I can't afford jack shit

[wet storm]

Prolly shouldn't make a live service game then

[past harbor]

Because when you DDOS a game like EVE where the company doesn't do anything for the players the only people it ultimately negatively affects are the players themselves.

[opaque raven]

Does EVE still exist?? I heard about it many years ago when I was little, like more thn a decade ago

[idle falcon]

Yall remember when Star Citizen charged 50 Grand for pixels

[past harbor]

Shit I remember sitting in lowsec during lag one day and some dude came trying to mid 8 jump freighters. I legitimately felt horrible....as I blew his shit up and stole what I could.

[idle falcon]

and concept art of something that COULD exist

[wet storm]

EVE will survive the collapse of mankind as bots keep mining until the end times

[tulip thistle]

So the issue is not wanting to perform dependency injections to decouple concrete implementations of proprietary software? You could use an adapter pattern to decouple these things and leave the requirements to the end-user to figure out how they want to mock it out or purchase their own license for usage, if they want to go that far. My apologies if this all sounds pedantic, but I'm trying to get a gauge of realistically what the cost for development time would be if this initiative enforced architectural guidelines for EoL service.

[north lintel]

Eve is reality, this world is the game

[worthy ivy]

yes. and then they leave. and the company folds.
with this initiative in play, the devs then have to spend money and time making the game playable after sunset...
how is not obvious that that causes issues for devs?

[past harbor]

There's more truth to this than I'd like to admit. There are a LOT of people who use eve as a primary source of income.

[idle falcon]

Well its protections for consumers and their rights

[worthy ivy]

in b4 EVE gains self-awareness and sends a robot back in time to kill sarah connor

[wet storm]

I for one welcome our EVE AI Overlords

[north lintel]

Because as has been stated multiple times by the initiative, games as old as eve would probably be grandfathered in and not have to worry about this proposed change.

[idle falcon]

Its not aimed to be easy for devs, rather to have consumers rights not be violated by a "License that can expire that has no expiration date" which is basically just a license that expires when I (the dev) says so

[past harbor]

Dependency injection? lol bro I'm not a middle manager. You can't just say arbitrary buzz words that don't fit the context and think I'm just going to continue entertaining a normal conversation with you.

[brazen drift]

honestly at this point im more mad they keep making videos NOW instead of having done all this 10 months ago

[idle falcon]

So you dont understand the dev side either then?

[past harbor]

No I perfectly understand the development side. That's not what dependency injection is.

[worthy ivy]

"probably"

and what about little timmy who is in school now and has dreams of making his own multiplayer shooter?
are we going to tell little timmy he can't do that because he can't afford to put the end of life plan in place...?

how could you do that to little timmy.
look at his sadge face when you tell him the bad news... 😦

[subtle gate]

now I should look into the thief of time

[north lintel]

I would do it like this:

"No Timmy, you cant"

[tulip thistle]

I'm not sure what your technical background is; I was under the impression you were also a software developer since you were questioning my background. My initial question was about hypothetical development costs if this initiative came to fruition. Your hostility is unwarranted; I'm not attempting to argue with you. I don't care one way or the other about the success of this initiative.

[worthy ivy]

fair dos

sorry timmy

[idle falcon]

"Sorry Little Timmy, its to protect consumers rights"

[worthy ivy]

so cruel

[plucky quail]

After spending a bunch of time watching videos and reading about SKG my biggest question to people who support it is like this, if a developer creates a game and it reach's the end of its life and has to be sunset, in its current state the client access is still there but the game its self is server based and thus all the servers are turned off, lets be generous and say the devs publish the server binaries and now all thats needed to be done is have a server built for it to run it but nobody in the community can afford it or the player base isnt there. is this considered a playable state? because alot of people cant seem to agree what a playable state constitutes and thats like IMO the biggest problem with the initiative is that it doesnt clarify what playable state means which can very easily lead to things being placed at the feet of developers who shouldnt be responsable for continuing the games life.

[subtle gate]

[wet storm]

I'm mad I shouldn't have coffee because it's night time and it'll mess up my sleep

[brittle jacinth]

I guess its a "playable" state

[past harbor]

I'm being blunt, not hostile. If you wanted me to actually answer what you wrote then I'd have spent an entire paragraph explaining how dependency injection has nothing to do with binaries, and you're completely conflating that with dynamic linking.

Which also probably would have been seen as hostile.

[worthy ivy]

is one of his best - no lie

[opaque raven]

I thought EVE was somewhat community based from the little I heard of it. Groups and Guilds were a basic necessity

[brittle jacinth]

Hope that if it pass it doesn't turn into a monkey paw effect

[worthy ivy]

EVE is degeneracy based - think Gen-Chat in space with lasers

and then some

[gloomy forge]

Poor lil Timmy what did he do to deserve such fate.

[idle falcon]

I hope that it does pass and doesnt turn into a monkey paw effect, but even if it does turn into a monkey paw then that is just how the cookie crumbles

[worthy ivy]

best few years gaming I ever had

and I wouldn't go back for all the tea in china

[idle falcon]

More of a red bull fan myself

[opaque raven]

But...but I love GenChat

[wet storm]

I hope it passes and forces devs to add LAN to games

[idle falcon]

cant beat rocket cola

[wet storm]

Hate new multiplayer games that don't have LAN

[past harbor]

You can't do much without a corp, even if that means running 40 clients and making your own corp. But people don't really have any loyalty to each other whatsoever.

[north lintel]

I mean its already pretty expensive to make an online multiplayer game, I fail to see how having a plan to allow private servers after support ends (which isnt anything new) which allows the basic functionality of the game to continue is that much more expensive than making it in the first place.

If i build a house and then decide I want my front door on a different wall, its going to cost a lot to change that. If i know ahead of time where the door is going to be, probably not gonna cost as much.

[worthy ivy]

Jita global makes Gen-Chat look like st trinians

[idle falcon]

Yeah how much does lan cost? shouldnt be that much considering that the cost of servers would be gone after EOL

[worthy ivy]

but this is more like a situation where the law will tell you where your doors have to go - regardless as to how you want to connect your rooms

[wet storm]

idk I just want LAN

The absense of LAN is the single greatest contributor for the average gamer to develop a grass allergy

[plucky quail]

just demanding things be done a certain way without knowing how its actually done is crazy

[idle falcon]

thats for the law makers to decide

[wet storm]

New gamers will never know the intoxicating sensation of loading your entire desktop setup onto the trunk of your car to then unfurl it on someone else's dining table

[north lintel]

But there are laws that heavily regulate how houses are built in order to protect the consumer

[worthy ivy]

you want your bathroom connected to the garage via the kitchen?
no?

tough, that's where the law says your doors have to go

[granite plinth]

Well the initiative is not a demand, its citizens asking the EU overlords to consider this matter.

[past harbor]

The irony is they'll end up with their dumbed down multiplayer features, and then immediately negative review it because of hackers.

[idle falcon]

Yeah

[muted robin]

sees people posting more SKG news on youtube

ah yes so stunning and brave of SKG to build their platform off thor's back

[wet storm]

That's how elections work

[opaque raven]

This idea has been around for (...checking my notes) 5 thousand years

[idle falcon]

Well no they are kinda forced to in order to defend their side of it

[muted robin]

the most disgusting part of everyone's behavior on this is that scapegoating thor as the ultimate misinformation devil is literally working, bc i guess doing your own marketing wasn't enough. how pathetic

[wet storm]

Check this out

[plucky quail]

and that makes it good?

[wet storm]

Gamers will never know this

[gloomy forge]

I know I've been saying this for days. But SKG can easily "win" this by turning it into an actual movement, full of volunatry donations and advocates for the space. These advocates and meet others in the development space and make connections. It could be a huge thing, many people who already work on compatbility for older games. Games CAN last forever. Not only that but a movement like this could easily garner political support too by showing examples of how things can look like, many successful pro consumer advocate movement done so, even getting government support.

[spare topaz]

forced to? 10 months after the fact?

[wet storm]

Dear lord we're anti-democracy now?

[granite plinth]

peak gaming

[idle falcon]

If I were to say, get DMCA'd over a shitpost on reddit and have my game taken down and be at threat of a lawsuit, would it be me building my platform over somes back?

[cold glade]

This!

[worthy ivy]

and the EU overlords are just a bunch of beauraucrats (damn I can't spell today)

they don't even read the laws they pass - they get two hours to read a 900 page law and then have to vote

democracy is a farce (no politic intended)

[wet storm]

It's from 13 years ago, we blazed through Borderlands 2 in one sitting

[plucky quail]

woah what? im saying we should be making INFORMED DECISIONS not that democracy is bad?

[past harbor]

Yeah more like a year was about to roll over on the petition and he needed publicity fast lol

[idle falcon]

Well its 75% of the way there and now we are in the home stretch

Yeah

[wet storm]

People vote on polititians without knowing how anything related to lawmaking and the executive branch work

[granite plinth]

The parlement is a mess yes. But before anything is passed, lots of research is done by smaller players and commisions to form something to actually vote on. Its not perfect, but this is better than nothing. Big corpo will get their time to lobby

[muted robin]

how much y'all wanna bet that if i look up google analytics for SKG it was barely trending and the only spikes were when someone was taking a dump on thor over his opinion

[subtle gate]

American Yoshi

[wet storm]

They see a solution they like being proposed and go for it on instinct and emotion

[past harbor]

Do you lease an apartment, house, or a car? You don't own your door.

[wet storm]

But you're right I switched hands there by mistake

My bad

[worthy ivy]

"/big/ players and commissions"

ftfy 🙂

indies will get shut out

[wet storm]

When you said "and that makes it good?" I thought you meant voting lol

[tulip thistle]

I think you're misunderstanding me. Writing in adapter classes/DI for third-party dependencies is a potential way to decouple proprietary software to allow legal releasure of server binaries, so the user can link their own dependencies once they have their own external binary modules or DLLs or whatever. But anyways, your tone is indeed too hostile for productive conversation; you seem to want to argue a point and I'm only here looking for people to speculate on hypotheticals.

[plucky quail]

and im saying dont do that? its bad for your own interests advocate for your self by learning about the things you want done and ask for the based on actual knowledge not just "this sucks and i want it my way"

[gloomy forge]

This won't happen unfortunatly. because people just want these votes to pass and everything they want implemented the lazy way. If you want to fight for what it right you gonna work for it. Just sining the CI and letting it pass is not "winning". It requires effort and people in the movement with expertise on the field actually working, while people inside the movement providing donations. Thats how "my dream movement" would be like at least.

[idle falcon]

So I have a lease to my house, with no expiration date, besides the fact that it expires when my landlord decides that he cant keep the upkeep of it

[wet storm]

But that's how elections work

JSH had an excelent point when he said people aren't moved by logic

[subtle gate]

micro-transactions are more of a game killer than anything that stupid initiative addresses

[worthy ivy]

but "landlord-SKG" would require the landlord to let you carry on living there free even after he can't keep up the upkeep of it

[idle falcon]

"Do it because its right, not because its easy!"
The people with lead still in their water:

[granite plinth]

That is a sad reality. But the biggest issues I see with the initiative as it is (IP and copyright/licensing), can be more easily avoided by indies than the big players. So if a indie developer knows this from the start he would more easily to take this into consideration for his architechture. But that being said I feel that if something passes, protections for developers should be in place too, its a complicated issue.

[subtle gate]

what was that game that killed toxicity as well

[idle falcon]

No its to make it so I own the game that I bought, not a license that expires when its convieniet

[worthy ivy]

more "do it right because the easy way will really screw the pooch"

[gloomy forge]

Even if its 100% all that means that people can at least consider what has to be said. But it could easily be dismissed by the argument that it doesn't work with already existing laws". Its worth a shot but thats it. A grassroots movement however has such much higher and significant chances to garner bigger support apart from "Thor is mean, devs should adhere to the law and do what WE want".

[past harbor]

Dude if the dependencies or middleware we're talking about was free and publicly available, then this wouldn't even be a conversation. What you're talking about are things people do to work around GNU/GPL licensing.

[wet storm]

Everyone thinks their way is right and the opposition's is easy

Including me

[opaque raven]

Cmon...be reasonable
It takes time to create a 5min faq that in a very solid manner covers the law, market, consequences, technical necessities, difficulties and innovation problems.
If you rush a miracle you get a rotten miracle

[plucky quail]

but why are we defending that attitude and not trying to move more people towards looking at things with an analytical view that will actually HELP them in the long run

[wet storm]

https://tenor.com/view/princess-bride-knows-so-much-so-much-gif-11786418

(I understood that reference)

[muted robin]

uh huh............. uh huh......... uhhuh yes yes of course SKG's lack of success was only thor's fault. we should not investigate SKG's marketing strategy or outreach at all. it's all thor's fault

(link with sauce for those who are more statistically inclined https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US&q=stop killing games&hl=en )

[worthy ivy]

I'm more in the "everything is a lot more complicated than it seems on the surface" camp

I just know a bit about IP and copyright (being a DJ) and contract law (12 years in insurance) and have concerns

[idle falcon]

Yeah devs should adhere to the law when it makes sure that consumer rights arent violated, the gaming industry grew too fast for law to catch up and now the main consumer of it has very little rights, its like if the Beef industry grew so fast that law couldnt catch it and now the farmers are sticking crap in it that harms the consumer

[north lintel]

No it wouldnt, you would get to keep your house but be responsible for its upkeep.

[median hornet]

Love to see it

[wet storm]

My guess is because it requires a massive cultural shift that current apathy trends refuse to address

[idle falcon]

Exactly

[outer gust]

Chat, please calm down.

[past harbor]

The FAQ that pretty much consists of the question "Isn't this not really feasible?" over and over with the answer "nuh uh, that guy did it once"

[brittle jacinth]

does it suprise you. most people never heard of it before last week due to the drama

[spare topaz]

interesting, is that just google analytics?

[gloomy forge]

Sorry friend, you have to explain this to me. I don't understand where you're coming from here because I don't get the reference. You mean that you can't fight against it by actually being active? Most people in Europe learned how to fight for legislature by actually going outside and doing their work themselves. A lot of laws passed because of that.

Theres already "SKG complient" online stores as well. GOG.com is one. that happened because a bunch of nerds had connections with publishers and made their own movement. These were like 12 people. Now imagine what 1 million people could do.

[idle falcon]

Im calm

[north lintel]

I am verociously calm.

[gloomy forge]

I just wanted to explain myself I'm calm.

[idle falcon]

I am angrily serene....

[granite plinth]

yeah but the good part is that this wouldnt just be passed as is. And that law actually needs to work. So they cant just force companies to break licensing agreements. I personally see/hope this more going towards having to say explicitly that you are leasing it, and then even better have a period be stated, especially for big corporations and be more lenient on indies

[worthy ivy]

so the landlord is just shit out of luck on the capital value of the house?
can he sell it? does the new landlord /have/ to take you on as a tenant, I mean, he doesn't have any agreement with you?

everything is more complicated than it seems - that's the point

[wet storm]

I am a wellspring of peace, pay no heed to my leg jumping up and down

[past harbor]

but yeah I only jumped in here because I thought maybe I missed something and this wasn't all a big publicity scheme. I was wrong. gg

[opaque raven]

Mix that with "because I said so" and ye, you got a faq my friend. (I was being highly sarcastic btw)

[wintry pond]

best thing anyone can do is tell people to go and read the initiative themselves, so they can get their own opinion

[muted robin]

yeah and if the drama is the only way they heard of it that's prolly a good sign the actual supporters of it did a trash job at supporting it and the recent popularity of it is quite literally built by stomping on thor's back

[past harbor]

good luck in your future arguments

[wet storm]

YEs

[plucky quail]

so we agree that making important decisions should be well informed before going to a vote which can cause massive good AND massive bad

[muted robin]

it's not bc of thor spreading muh isinformation this is just pure incompetence

[wet storm]

Yes

[summer marsh]

😭

[idle falcon]

Well no there is a clip of him saying "It requires they give up source code" when it directly states that it would not give up source code

[granite plinth]

The initiative it self is not going to make some law pass, its going to force the EU to look into the matter, They can still decide that nothing needs to be done, or that it is already properly covered by existing law

[muted robin]

in the marketplace of ideas campaigns spread based on merit and spreading the word and i'm sorry but it's not looking good for SKG and i respect them even less for not being able to do it IN 11 MONTHS

[wind hare]

Doing something bad (Bashing people to get attention) is never good, and most of the people who are doing it has enough skills in public media and Youtube that they could have accomplished more by putting out reasonable videos. Instead its just a drama farm out there right now.

[worthy ivy]

off topic: I love that the whole world insists on deadnaming Twitter
it's hillarious

[wet storm]

Oh yeah the initiative's marketing sucked

[worthy ivy]

it'll never be X..... always Twitter 🙂

[muted robin]

yeah there are lots of laws that say "don't worry this isn't going to require you to [do restrictive/individual rights violation]" except anyone who thinks about it for two seconds knows that it's going to require exactly that

[idle falcon]

750k people have signed

still got time

[plucky quail]

i NEVER said it would automatically become law. but if we are going to make a movement like this it should be done properly with care and intention behind our words

[frosty spear]

Both sog and moist uploaded a video at the same time

[plucky quail]

lawmakers have never had our interests in mind and we should enter assuming the worst will happen.

[opaque raven]

Probably the most acceptable deadnaming on the internet

[flat moat]

Either call it by it's most respectful name or call it the name of an overhyped dating site

[north lintel]

What on earth are you on about? The analogy is the landlord giving you the house

[idle falcon]

Pardon?

[muted robin]

how many laws have people tried to pass where policy makers were like "we're just trying to protect the children :((((( do you hate children" and we all go "no you're using protecting children as the guise to pass your crappy individual rights violating laws"

[granite plinth]

Fair enough, its not perfect no.

[subtle gate]

Ben Shapiro would definitly be the one to grill me for a minor spelling error and then just tear down the argument as a side note

[median hornet]

TWITTER IS TWITTER

[muted robin]

in the case of SKG it doesn't have to be actively malicious, but maliciousness and lack of foresight/caution can both be equally harmful

[wet storm]

I agree, they are pretty much like corpos

[gloomy forge]

Yes and if it cannot, then theres gonna be quite a lot of discussions regarding lawmaking, which will probably not work the way most people think it would. Theres gonna be a lot of "what-if" questioneering.

I'm sure there will be some compromises however, including stuff they can already implement, because it already has been implemented in a way.

[muted robin]

which........ is literally something thor said in his own coverage of it

[plucky quail]

i stand by that statement.

[wet storm]

Except corpos want money, and lawmakers want votes

[worthy ivy]

okay, so the landlord has to give you the house?

something something give me whatever you're smoking I want some of it 🙂

[median hornet]

votes and money

[outer gust]

@late bane no need to spread that here

[north lintel]

Yeah its an analogy, analogys arent 1-1

[wet storm]

Eh Brussels MPs are prety well paid

[gloomy forge]

@wet storm lawmakes want votes and money. not just votes (I get your point)

[granite plinth]

Yeah most likely not much is going to happen. I just hope they can force it to say that you are leasing instead of buy. I know its buying a license, but I feel it would be more transparent to just say lease. And ideally have a period on there. IM expecting some thing like that to come out of it rather than an apple decision where they lay down the hammer

[worthy ivy]

a bad analogy isn't one to one
but a good analogy does map

but SWIM has to smoke for real, brb

[late bane]

Got it

[granite plinth]

Too well

[median hornet]

Yes. Yes indeed they are

[wet storm]

Going "EW LAWMAKER BAD" undermines the entirety of the EU pro citizen funds and laws that make it a very, very nice place to live (when there's no war at least)

[idle falcon]

Exactly

[wet storm]

Up until brexit EU citizens could go to uni in Scotland for free, funded by the Erasmus fund

[plucky quail]

im not saying that we should do nothing im saying we need to be percise and calculated with this

[idle falcon]

This is in the EU, which has wildly different lawmakers than the US

[gloomy forge]

Yeah that would still be a step forward.

[granite plinth]

I love EU but the parlement members are grossly overpaid and there are loopholes in the way they are paid allowing them to farm it

[idle falcon]

Its made just to bring light to the topic

[past harbor]

Wasn't this essentially a big part of the reason brexit happened?

[plucky quail]

its forcing it infront of lawmakers who may or may not care and may or may not make good choices why shouldnt we stack the odds in our favor?

[thorny cloud]

I just became aware of Soggy Cereal because of a video that found its way into my algo.

What's this guy's story? He literally starts the video off saying "As a game developer who worked on game engine and tools development," yet I can't find any other content by this guy that has anything to do with game dev or software engineering.

That seems like a very odd feather to have in one's cap that has never been previously been displayed. It also seems especially convenient given the convergence of internet drama right now.

But like seriously, who is this guy? And why can't I find any actual evidence of him having worked on Helldivers 2 anywhere?

[wet storm]

No Brexit happened because immigrants are icky apparently

[worthy ivy]

I am a simple man and I speak as I find
I call a spade a "long-handled-hand-operated-earth-inversion-tool"

[wet storm]

I would know I was one

I was treated like I was icky

It's not fun

[plucky quail]

is it that hard for SKG to rewrite some of the languege used to be more percise and less manipulatable

[past lake]

when Ultima Online still exists in a retail setting, AND the devs released the server for private servers to exist; there is no excuse anyone can ever give as to why developers shouldnt be forced to release a binary at end of life. Make better games. It really is that simple

[formal kestrel]

IMO they need to go into things with SKG with a proper plan not just vauge ideas of what is wanted, thats the main problem i have and most people i know

[gloomy forge]

@idle falcon theres a lot of good advocates for good things in the EU. If SKG seriously is going to be a very serious thing to approach from a lawmaking standpoint every side will win and that even the ones that are very critical about it (understandably so) even get what they want, I'm fairly optimistic about the matter.

[wind hare]

You can't say that one games example proves a point for all games. Thats not a sound arguement

[past harbor]

Yeah totally had nothing to do with people being angry that their public services were being swamped by people from all over europe at a discount and then having to go to places like Lithuania to get surgery because waiting lists were ridiculous.

[thorny cloud]

Is there really no excuse, though?

I'm not a game developer, so I don't know the answer to that question. I don't have inside understanding of that industry or how it operates.

[idle falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/mash-cheers-hawkeye-trapper-gif-14445274

[granite plinth]

It is not even guaranteed that a proposal (to vote on) will make it to the lawmakers/members of parliament. There is just a guarantee that you will get to talk to them, and that they will research it.

[worthy ivy]

should should and should, all you speak of is should

• that lady in the star trek where they go looking for spock's brain probably

[gloomy forge]

Exceptions the proof the rule aren't really a good basis to argue for anything, if anything it could be twisted to turn it into a monkey paws argument

[wet storm]

Yes, they were being swamped with migrant workers from Poland, Italy and Portugal to take care of an aging British population and we're very icky, you see.

[plucky quail]

again how does that mean that we shouldnt put our best foot forward with percise languege and good examples of what we want and how it would work

[north lintel]

You have very black and white thinking for someone who thinks everything is "more complicated than it seems"

Anyway fine heres your 1-1 analogy that perfectly maps onto the words of the initiative

You sign a lease (license) with a landlord (publisher) to pay rent (fee) to live in a house (live service game)

Instead of allowing landlord to say this license has no expiration date unless i randomly decide to end it and kick you out, theres a set amount of time the lease is valid for.

[wind hare]

So instead of trying to work with the EU and figure out a way of solving the issue that you are saying was real, they took their ball and went home? With bigger consequences then the fist problem effecting them now.

[granite plinth]

It doesnt but you said it like we are forcing them to vote on it. But yes I do agree with ur sentiment that it could have a more extensive/polished write up, but that also has downsides. I feel that aslong as EU doesnt do anything radical this will be a push in a positive direction.

[late bane]

You guys aren't able to moderate his Twitter comments are you?

[past lake]

it absolutely does. Thats a 30 year old game people STILL pay for subscriptions to. Even though they can play for free, retail AND private. If your game isnt good enough to survive, that doesnt give you the right to pretend youre selling a game when you hide the fact youre selling a rental

[idle falcon]

Lets not

lets not poke the bear

[past harbor]

I'm not saying it was a good idea but it would be foolish to ignore what drove people to that point.

[wet storm]

It's not even about poking bears

Just mean and rude

[late bane]

Saying it be nice if they can delete some things

[wind hare]

No one was hiding that fact. If you decided to not read the fine print on what you are buying thats on you. Stop trying to claim something is hiden because you don't want to put the effort into it

[plucky quail]

i suppose im just going to have to dissent from this because i dont think the risk associated with the movement is worth it i cannot trust lawmakers to just "not do anything radical"

and what downsides are associated with it being more polished/percise

[summer shoal]

this argument is SO annoying

[granite plinth]

You risk locking ur self into a certain direction, and if that specific direction turns out not to be viable, u cant turn around anymore. BUt just polished has no downsides, but going too deeply into details can make it too specific

[past harbor]

People still play pong, doesn't mean we should use it as a model for future gaming.

[idle falcon]

"Ah yes, let me read the 12 word legalese before I buy overwatch"

[wet storm]

Yes, an emotional response based on the fact immigrants are apparently icky and that it's best to shut the border than to reinvest taxpayer money

[past lake]

fine print. Exactly. Because you know if it wasnt fine print, nobody would buy it

[wind hare]

No, claiming that ignorance of a topic that has printed documentation and you sign off on it that can stand in court is annoying. Ignorance of the law doesn't win you a court case

[summer shoal]

there's no ignorance involved

[worthy ivy]

a house lease /is/ for a set amount of time tho?
and is based on agreement with the landlord?

SKG is like saying the landlord has to keep leasing it to you after he closes up his landlording business - and saying "well, he knows in advance he has to let you stay there free after the contract ends so he can prepare for it"

[north lintel]

Burying unfavourable terms in a sea of legalese is corpo oppression tactics 101

[past lake]

make. better. games

[plucky quail]

i cannot see a world where specificing what "playable state" means can be the wrong direction

[wet storm]

Make MOAR games

[granite plinth]

Understandable angle, im quite positive that it will lead to some improvement

[thick ledge]

Chat

A

That is all

[plucky quail]

A

[late bane]

Bug

[wind hare]

B

[plucky quail]

C

[earnest mirage]

E

[fickle bluff]

Oh, so forcing people into giving up a product they have full ownership of is ok now?

[wet storm]

https://tenor.com/view/marikiplier-e-meme-lord-farquaad-gif-22138504

[thick ledge]

I got to do something cool, which is test out a WIP build of mario 64 coop with Wario ware esk game modes

[white mica]

https://tenor.com/bOZDR.gif

[thick ledge]

There was a death match then a race then a chase game

Pretty neat

[north lintel]

No it isnt. SKG is saying game licences should EITHER be like leases and have am expiration date - or an end of life plan. Youre either buying a product to own, or you are leasing a service. At the moment publishers are picking and choosing the best terms for itself from both and not giving consumers either.

[past harbor]

What happens when the binary stops working? Some dude is legally responsible for digging up 30 year old code and recompiling it for windows ME2 edition?

[worthy ivy]

I can agree with this though - contracts should mos def be clearer and in plain english - I was getting paid good money to deal with them precisely because they are deliberately written to be nebulous and unintelligable

[past lake]

i thought i bought the game.... wheres my ownership

[thick ledge]

I explode @past harbor me personally

[wet storm]

Destroyed

Reduced to atmos

[granite plinth]

I think it is left arbitrary on purpose. I can see how u wouldnt like it. But I think it actually makes the initiave stronger since there is wiggle room to find something that works for both parties

[thick ledge]

I get instantly atomized

[wind hare]

THAT sounds like a petition I would get behind. Too bad thats not whats going put forward. Instead we have SKG

[thick ledge]

My cat will be very upset

[past harbor]

There's plenty of binaries from the VS2003 era that don't work at all anymore

[wet storm]

Step one would be to remove the BUY button from the main page IMO

[worthy ivy]

cat all "why explode?! who will feed now?"

[frosty spear]

Alright, yes that guy is an assh!t and just drama farming, he much more aggressively cuts clips and images to fit his narrative than the others I've seen while also having a much holier than thou attitude than others and not even using the skg stuff as a smokescreen. But the SOG I was taking here is someordinarygamer which has made a video in much better faith going point by point and giving his opinion. But somehow he equates a big active company like riot going after people who run private servers with the hypothetical bankrupted company being able to go after the people monetizing the server given under the eol plan

[opaque raven]

On the other hand there is a reason why some contracts are like that since they have the need to be precise on technicalities and language.
Sadly it ended up being weaponized as well against the reader

[past lake]

if a community wants to build it and maintain it, what does the "owner" care? Hes not making anything off it anymore...the community already paid for it

[past harbor]

and thus the entire argument falls apart

[granite plinth]

The orginal company should not be responsible anymore. But tthis is anotther issue that might be hard to clearly define, what would stop companies for inserting planned obselence into these binaries to further their agenda etc...

[thick ledge]

Critically acclaimed by whomst

[wet storm]

Look at this blatant lie

[thick ledge]

I didn't like Diablo 4

[past lake]

no, the community already paid for it.

[plucky quail]

okay what different interpritations of playable state are there? because by leaving it vague i see only opens up opportunity for abuse not positive correction

[past harbor]

Why wouldn't they be? That's the whole point of this. Otherwise they'd just drop it on their ass like they do now.

[past harbor]

So if I buy a ticket to madison square garden, I get to claim ownership of it when the place closes down?

[wind hare]

I mean its not a lie, you are buying into their user contract on use of their software.

[past lake]

if i buy a car, i can mod it, sell it, crash it. Its not fords property in anything but make and model

[thick ledge]

why can't we all just get along and play minecraft

[wet storm]

This raises my cortisol levels

[past harbor]

Ya'll are very quickly devolving into "everything should be free because unicorns and rainbows"

[wet storm]

No not free, what I paid for

Unicorns and rainbows are a plus

[granite plinth]

The initiave states that the company does not need to indefinetly support it, there just needs to be plan. It all depends on how the law actually unfolds, I would be okay with a company doing a best effort like putting out some documentation on the api's etc and the community being allowed to create their own implementation. Or putting out some binaries and saying hey u get this as is, no further support. Its better than the status quo

[past harbor]

You paid for access to a game client, you still have access to that game client. Congratulations.

[thick ledge]

No go back

Congradulations

[late bane]

Feel like you'd TNT under our houses with a hidden switch

[granite plinth]

Do all multiplayer things need to keep working? should it just be a singleplayer version? Is it okay for some features not to work anymore? is it okay for core mechanics not to work anymore?

[thick ledge]

Wtf

I'm more of a harmless griefer

[wind hare]

You paid for what you signed up for. Just because you THINk your paying for something else doesn't mean reality is going to warp to what you want. You want to buy the complete game with all its code? Pay for the production of the game then. You can buy anything with enough money

[thick ledge]

I'd steal one (1) trap door off your house

[past harbor]

So the initative just wants a piece of paper that says "we'll do good job. 100%"?

[late bane]

Eh server save before and its all memes

[thick ledge]

See how long til u notice

[wet storm]

It's much more fun to dig a 1x1x255 shaft so people fall down and lose their stuff

[frosty spear]

Anyways seeing Mutta saying that a bankrupted company could dmca people running private and monetized servers they had to release due to eol is the same as riot dmcaing private servers is just confusing. Like from my understanding the dmca is a legal threat that you can the use as pretext to sue but if the company is bankrupt sue with what money so the dmca's would be soggy sort of

[formal kestrel]

and flip all the rest

[granite plinth]

The terms on a concert ticket are quite clear, you get a time date and a duration. a game says buy, but u buy a lincense. not really the same thing. But I would be fine with them saying lease instead of buy, as is it feels shitty

[wet storm]

Ah the good old you will own nothing and be happy for it

[opaque raven]

"As long as I'm not the one paying, I don't even wanna know"

[wind hare]

Anyone with Thor in their video is our for drama and I'm ignoring it.

[granite plinth]

Well not just the piece of paper, but there would need to be a plan and they would need to follow through on that plan

[brazen drift]

if i learned about anything corporate even if they're bankrupt companies somehow magically always have enough money to sue

[thick ledge]

I'd be totally behind a disclaimer on license vs software

Make it clearer what we buy

[past harbor]

Really? Because I've had a lot of concert tickets and they don't have any terms and conditions I have to agree to in order to use the ticket. Unlike software.

[plucky quail]

: those are all great questions that the initiative doesnt answer. IMO "playable state" should be defined in clear detail to exclude developer responsibility in any and all kind of upkeep/responsability for licenses ect ect for the game post sunsetting, WHILE ALSO adding that should the devs PURPOSEFULLY do something to disable it or stop the community from playing the game that they should then be punished.

[thick ledge]

Ross said he no want a disclaimer tho

[wet storm]

Mutta's video sucks ass

[thick ledge]

[wet storm]

When silent that man is a poet

[past lake]

i signed up to eat a hamburger, not get e coli. Wrong re

[granite plinth]

I agree that those things do need to be clear before a law passes. But i dont feel that the initiative is the time or place for it

[wind hare]

I NEVER said be happy with it, but make an arguement with reality in mind. Start talks about the subject and bring up perposals that can help people. Like not hiding what you are buying in legal docuemnts no one reads. But don't state making statments about stuff that isn't true to drum up interest

[past lake]

wrong re

[formal kestrel]

what we are paying for exactly needs to be clearer

[wet storm]

I know I myself said to not bash people but it's literally copy pasted drama farming

[frosty spear]

He does try to engage more positively with every point compared to other still a bit disappointed in the guy but I can also see where he is coming from

[past harbor]

So it's not just a plan, it's a guarantee. Which is the whole problem.

[granite plinth]

Ive bought plenty too and by purchasing them you are accepting the terms and service agreement of that platform.

[thick ledge]

Yeah if it was clearer you are buying a limited license I think it'd solve alot of problems

[past harbor]

Dude in the parking lot never showed me any T&Cs sorry.

[granite plinth]

Why is that a problem? I can see the IP/copyright etc angle and that is tricky.

[wind hare]

His entire schtick on Youtube is to attack people. I'm over that type of content.

[thick ledge]

Put it on the box like cigarette warnings

[north lintel]

You mean like this one that clearly states what you are attending, when and where?

[brazen drift]

nobody pays attention to cigarette warnings either...

[wet storm]

From where I'm from the dictionary is pretty clear with no if's but's or maybe's that buying means taking possession of somethjing

Taking possession of a license or permission is twisting words to outright steal from consumers

[plucky quail]

okay we can agree to disagree. i would also like to add/change the subject a bit, where is the post initiative passing plan? does SKG even have one cause as far as i can find theres nothing posted to public pages about the process post SKG being successful in its petition which also concerns me because it feels like this is again partially baked and poorly spearheaded

[thick ledge]

Does it also say when to leave

[granite plinth]

Im pretty sure you are still agreeing to t&c but im not a lawyer or anything close, and I think you know that redefining the word purchase/buy in the t&c is shady

[wet storm]

It's not challenging reality when I call that buy button a lie

[past harbor]

Because if you're legally required to guarantee that a product will continue to function, then you're legally required to make that product continue to function. So when it stops working. Which software often does. Someone has to go back and fix it. When I mentioned this earlier. You said "No they just need a plan"

[frosty spear]

Also wait a minute yeah dmcas are sort of useless for piracy because you can set something up again realy quickly so unless you can sue and get in jail the people involved it ain't going to work

[granite plinth]

It would be in the hands of the EU. The lawmakers u dont trust haha

[north lintel]

When the concert ends. The ticket is to attend the concert.

[turbid lantern]

i just put in my vote 👍

[thick ledge]

Arguably just misleading, you are buying something, just maybe not what you think you are

[plucky quail]

thats just crazy to me i cannot fathom a world where i would trust lawmakers that much

[thick ledge]

What decides when the concert ends

[wind hare]

OR SERVICE

[wet storm]

To mislead is to lie

[granite plinth]

The thing is they dont require that, They just want a plan that leaves it in a playable state. As far as i remember they do not clearly declare, what that menas, for howlong that needs to be guaranteed etc. I agree with you that if that is indefinite that its bullshit. But lets say they just want them to put out a specification for how to implement a server for the game. Would that still be a problem for you?

[wind hare]

It litterally says to use a service

[thick ledge]

What verb would be better for indefinite use

[north lintel]

Have you ever heard of the concept of an implied term?

[thick ledge]

Long term rent??

[thick ledge]

Why yes, games have them too

🙂

[granite plinth]

I mean I feel you on that one, But not much of a choice is there with them passing laws constantly whether u want them to or not

[wet storm]

To own the rights to the use of services. Read the entire thing dangit. To remove my right that I purchased is to steal

[past harbor]

How many times do we have to go around this circle? They don't "just want a plan" because as you yourself said, they need to also act on that plan...

[thick ledge]

Anyway

[toxic rampart]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-upset-going-insane-cat-losing-its-mind-crazy-in-extreme-agony-gif-25382763

[wet storm]

Don't use the dicionary against me

[wind hare]

Ignorance is bliss I guess

[thick ledge]

How's everyone doing

[wet storm]

I was there when it was written

[thick ledge]

Post some pets

Drink some water

Don't forget to get up and stretch

[plucky quail]

but we do have a choice in advocating properly and this isnt that.

[outer gust]

okay dracula

[wet storm]

Yesterday was leg day

I really tried standing up

[granite plinth]

Yes that is the idea/initiative, just a paper is useless. But you keep turning it into indefinite support or a guarantee that what they deliver will work forever. It is not. Can you answer the second part?

[thick ledge]

Debate of this kind can get very stressful but don't forget to care for yourself

[north lintel]

No they dont, they have explicitly anti-consumer terms

[late bane]

No pets, only the dark abyss

[wet storm]

My legs are cooked noods

[outer gust]

same I walked 9mi the other day at pride

[granite plinth]

I understand ur view, its reasonable given ur (dis)trust in the lawmakers and process

[thick ledge]

Awww kitty

Everyone stop arguing and post your pets

Rb

[wind hare]

Now I know your trolling, you bring up a fact, "This is how the dictionary states it", I copy it stating you are missing details from the dictionary and then you say "Don't fact check me." It's like politics

[thick ledge]

Rn

Let's go

[warped venture]

yes post cats I demand it

[toxic rampart]

I DEMAND PET PICS

[warped venture]

or any pet

[north lintel]

Indeed. Kitty is aww

[brittle jacinth]

the usual, people are arguing

[thick ledge]

WE DEMAND PETS

[toxic rampart]

PETS PETS PETS PETS

[brittle jacinth]

cat gpt is not here i think

[thick ledge]

-slams desk- PETS PETS PETS PETS

[late bane]

There

[plucky quail]

fair enough. i do hope this causes positive change at its core i do agree with SKG i just cant give my support to it in its current form

[north lintel]

Pardon the coat i was mid-barber

[thick ledge]

Little fella

[cursive solar]

very short video, like 4 minutes, the guy apparently worked at blizzard and worked on wow, warcraft etc. been in the game industry for 26 years https://youtu.be/zblBt9XzWoo?si=Ib2MYoe-z0kIhyMU

[earnest mirage]

it's almost 10 minutes after 2am, so almost 3am and i demand a krabby patty

[past harbor]

It's just completely ignorant of how companies actually function. If the money runs out, that's it. Nobody's left to continue ANY plan they may have had.

[cursive solar]

just a video that came up in my recommended, it was good

[plucky quail]

https://tenor.com/view/possum-opossum-possum-eating-possum-happy-opossum-eating-gif-5972121149038122432

[thick ledge]

It's important to remind ourselves that everyone here is human and wants the best for games, because we care about them

[wet storm]

Because you ignored a very important crucial part of the very thing you sent

[thick ledge]

And we all love pets

[vast pilot]

Huh, didn't know he was a blizzard dev

[north lintel]

Why are you assuming that the company has to go bust in order to stop supporting a game?

[cursive solar]

yeee, i checked his youtube channel description

[wet storm]

Lemme see if the cat is her box

[brazen drift]

For about 30 years when you bought a game, the impression and understanding was that you Owned that copy of the game. The only real "term of service" was that you couldn't distribute it illegally or modify the game.
And then modding games became SUPER popular and the only companies that take offense to it still are Capcom, Nintendo, and Sony. Others embraced it because ultimately it gave longevity to games and people would buy EVEN MORE skyrim copies because the mods kept the game alive. Some even embrace it by making official things now.
But then Consoles went Online and suddenly it was no longer "owning digital products" but "purchasing a license".

[robust galleon]

My new kitten Izzy and his older brother Mateo.

[fickle bluff]

Ownership entails absolute authority over smth to do as you please. To own the game would mean to own every aspect of it: code, assets, IP, etc. The notion that gamers are entitled to own their games is ridiculous.

[brittle jacinth]

Do you have like a button or something on your desk for posting pet photo on different alt cause theres a lot at the same time

[thick ledge]

No it weren't me I just got gamer clout

[wet storm]

Yay she is

[thick ledge]

When I say pets we get pets

[past harbor]

Why are you assuming they didn't? If something is a law it's applied equally. You can't just write a law that only applies to EA ubisoft and activision.

[thick ledge]

CAT

She looks comfy

[brittle jacinth]

CAT

[thick ledge]

Cat like box

[wet storm]

We don't keep her inside at night 'cos no cat flaps or cat litter budget

[wind hare]

I would love to think that, but every argument I am seeing involves personal attacks. I'm starting to loss faith that this has anything to do with the actual movement at this point and its all for money. if Thor never made a video on this topic, would any of these people have made a response to support it after 10 months or did they see an opertunity to jump on a band wagon and get some views on a video

[brazen drift]

Even if SKG does tackle the problem of them "killing games", there is still nothing stoping companies from killing Consoles online functionalities. Which thus kills online-only games.

[granite plinth]

bankruptcy would indeed make everything more difficult. And I feel that for such cases the initiatives ideas do not work well unless we expect companies to always have that executed plan ready, which i think is unrealistic. But in cases where companies do not go bankrupt and just decide to shut dow na game, i feel that expecting some kind of support for players who want to keep playing is not unreasonable.

[wet storm]

So we set up a comfy box with the kind of blanket she likes

[toxic rampart]

https://tenor.com/view/silly-reaction-meme-stan-twitter-funny-stressed-gif-7713976294327515532

[north lintel]

Not true at all if a company goes bust all sorts of legal responsibilities are basically null and void.

[thick ledge]

People dehumanize when they're angry, take a step back and a deep breath

[cursive solar]

i have now saved this gif, thank you kind sir

[thick ledge]

We all care about games

[past harbor]

You're not just asking companies to come up with a plan. You're asking companies to, at all times, make the right decision when it comes to enacting that plan. Which means being able to see the future, and then essentially murder their product the second there's any financial uncertainty.

[granite plinth]

I loved being able to swap games with friends, good old days

[thick ledge]

That's why we are willing to debate

[past harbor]

Cool, so we just go back to starting a new LLC for every single game we make and then ignore the entire initiative.

[thick ledge]

We all want the best for an industry the supplies us with experiences we love

[wet storm]

I'm sorry if I personally attacked you, that was not my intention

I am very fatigued with this argument and at this point it's just memes

[robust galleon]

And the last pic I got of Mateo's older brother Derpy.

[opaque raven]

I want all copies of Mortal Kombat Mythologies to catch fire and explode.
No one is thinking about my side, my problems, my struggle

[brazen drift]

When PS3 had the ability to have someone elses account and you could use the games on it as long as you had the account on the system

good times

[cursive solar]

oh man the ps3 was hellla underrated

[earnest mirage]

all companies working on games for competitive online games will/should take offence for those kind of games.
These kind of games don't really exist back then, at least not in that amount, and hacking or modifying the game for own benefits was not a such a big thing back then.

[granite plinth]

Its tricky man, but I just disagree with you saying that they require indefinite support. The issue ur bringing up currently, I do also think is an issue, and is tricky.

[thick ledge]

Everyone should support radio in thier struggle against mortal combat mythologies

[cursive solar]

i loved my ps3 so much

[toxic rampart]

Or you could just .. use the disc

[plucky quail]

i feel like this is hard to compare current games to old games tho based on just the tech we use alone like. 15 years ago the tech involved in video games was much simplier and smaller scale if we want to keep having mass scale games with all the QOL features we like it requires a whole other level of networking and server side work that complicates these things

[granite plinth]

good good times

[cursive solar]

the fact that mgs4 is just stuck on the ps3

[wind hare]

I was more talking about the videos. I will meet you in the Deep Desert some day when they add dueling. We have a blood debt to settle

[brittle jacinth]

its still like this on most console just for you to know and steam too

[wet storm]

CDs?

[frosty spear]

And mutta went the deep end. Wtf in a 10 minute span he says something like "while it is mot written in the initiative it is meant to do this" "it intends to do this" and then he goes after Thor for not being exact enough

[thick ledge]

Lmfao pharoah

[past harbor]

I mean when the prime examples everyone wants to use are all 30 year old games. It seems pretty likely they're going to expect a game to last at least that long.

[opaque raven]

Isn't it eventually coming on the Master Collection 2? I couldn't find a list of the games on it but I would strongly assume so

[frosty spear]

Also the classic "he is wrong and won't admit it because of ego"

[north lintel]

Well that would likely have to be litigated wouldnt it, but im not sure at this point what you are even arguing for so, good luck to you

[fluid dome]

My girlfriend's nasal surgery is soon

[thick ledge]

Has everyone got thier free copy of shrek: swamp kart racing for the GBA as the attendance gift for the streamchat debate?

[cursive solar]

oh god i hope so, that game needs to be released from its shackles

[past harbor]

They said something like "Obviously we'll keep making them if delta succeeds" but never confirmed it afaik

[granite plinth]

I dont tihnk that is what people are asking for. And if it is then its stupid. But I dont think it is. Whihc kind of goes back to what the other person was saying that better wording couldvei mproved the initiative

[wet storm]

You mean CDs?

[thick ledge]

No laser disc

[wet storm]

No SeeDeez NUTS

Gattem

[thick ledge]

All my games are on one giant user disc

[wet storm]

Dead by ligma

[cursive solar]

it should be criminal that one of, if not arguably one of the best metal gear games, is stuck on the ps3

[thick ledge]

I can't believe Steve Jobs died of ligma

[worthy ivy]

and all sorts of other legal responsibilities come into play

[fluid dome]

Thor killed Parasite Eve 2's game preservation, how dare he /s

[frosty spear]

Mutta/Sog goes after Thor for being a critic but besides the video 10 months ago and the 2 now he hasn't talked about it or released othe videos about it. It's so f-ing transplant what narrative they are pushing

[wet storm]

It was probably the dragon's fault

[past harbor]

and they had 10 months to revise the wording. But it's still pretty much just "We don't want this to happen, ever" and "Isn't this hard? Nuh uh"

[north lintel]

I still have my original 5 disc baldurs gate 1 in box in perfect condition

[wet storm]

OK I need to change my name, there's a lot of new poeple and I don't want them to think this nick wasn't for a bit

[thick ledge]

I'm concerned about skg, but at this point it's completely out of my hands, I hope it works out

What happens now will happen

[fickle bluff]

Thor killed preservation of my pickled onions and they went sour!

[thick ledge]

No that's ur real name

[brittle jacinth]

i do hope it turns well and not into a monkey paw effect. cause its seem it will go further down the line

[brazen drift]

Single player games don't have to worry about this because it's single player. The only online functionalities they need to worry about are those day one patches everyone loves to push. It would be online-only games that would be severely impacted.

[thick ledge]

That's ur brand

[wet storm]

SKO

[indigo wadi]

Not sure if there's a chance. Even if it gets 1 mill sigs, those sigs have to be verified

[cursive solar]

one things for sure (if anything happens) its going to make history

[fluid dome]

Wow what a shithead

[granite plinth]

yea fair point, its not perfect, and that does cause concerns like these. HOwever Im not sure if they are allowed to change the actual initiative? but they couldvbe changed the marketing around it to be more clear

[brazen drift]

And even if it does get those, the EU can just collectively go "lmao no?"

[past harbor]

Oh yeah, 100% for sure. Because there's no single player games out there with online connectivity

[wet storm]

Man if it doesn't pass this chat will turn atomic

[indigo wadi]

Yup.

[worthy ivy]

I wanted to make a joke here about a certain business person that basically makes his money doing exactly that...

but decided not to because politics 😦

but rest assured it was hillarious 🙂

[thick ledge]

Thor personally killed my vegetable garden while screaming "I know everything about vegetable gardens"

[cursive solar]

lol, yea probably

[wet storm]

I'm like 5% hoping it passes just so it doesn't lol

[thick ledge]

Messed up

He tore all the plants out with his teeth

[wet storm]

Thor worked 7 years at blizzard, never seen him wearing winter clothing. Hmm

[past harbor]

It's not something a "certain business person" does. Lots of people do it, all the time. The point was, if that's all it takes to skirt liability, then the whole initiative is pointless anyway.

[fluid dome]

Thor inflated the rent on my old home forcing me to move

[plucky quail]

well folks, i cannot rehash the things ive already said today i would like to say that yall have been pretty dope to talk to about all of this even though there is alot of disagreements this hasnt devolved into poop throwing attitude which is pretty dope

[fluid dome]

Heck you sir >:(

[wet storm]

We don't throw poop we throw water

HYDRATE

[indigo wadi]

I disagree with this /s

[granite plinth]

hidding behind companies is disgusting and has been going on for too long

[wet storm]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-monkey-throw-monkey-bottle-monkey-throw-bottle-gif-18261736954649180075

[north lintel]

Thats the case with a bunch of things though, not just this particular thing.

[plucky quail]

classic chat buh BYE

[cursive solar]

dont make me be toxic /s

[frosty spear]

You know what, let them get all the votes and let the monkeys paw curl. Looked at looked at the youtube comments and it's just gamers stroking each other in a circle

[thick ledge]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-mad-meme-plague-he-poisoned-water-supply-burnt-our-crops-and-deliver-gif-10420279

[plucky quail]

https://tenor.com/view/forrest-gump-running-gif-5218444295714452030

[fluid dome]

https://tenor.com/view/romeo-and-juliet-sampson-gif-22974937

[indigo wadi]

Biggest circle jerk eva

[brazen drift]

The best part is people coming in here hoping for some like. Miserable Thor-Cult and getting "no thors not infallible I actually dont agree with him but I'm not gonna be a jerk about it."

[opaque raven]

Thor turned me into a newt

[granite plinth]

they are actually not "that old" average age is 50. Youngest is 23. Olderst is 76. There are 720 members

[north lintel]

Did you get better?

[past harbor]

Sure, and because of that. Generally, it's something that's taken into consideration when making policies like this that specifically relate to a companies closure.

[fluid dome]

You kinda deserve it /j

[thick ledge]

50 is pretty old

[wet storm]

We should make a bridge outta Thor

see if he's a witch

[thick ledge]

A thoridge

[cursive solar]

compared to america that is nothing

[worthy ivy]

the guy I'm thinking of is particularly egregious with it

loses money on every single business (literally /every/ one he runs into the ground), but then gets to offset those losses against future tax bills because the american tax system is - to be polite - completely mental 🙂

guy makes money by collapsing companies - is madness

[brittle jacinth]

welcome in the comment section of every social media. its a normal thing

[indigo wadi]

Can confirm, am old

[thick ledge]

Thor flesh bridge

[humble aspen]

Do we have original meme image with Thor on a book cover for childs guide to online discussion? I really need it rn 😁

[fickle bluff]

https://tenor.com/view/burn-the-witch-screaming-rant-gif-17904166

[cursive solar]

a 60 year old politican in america is spry

[past harbor]

You just unironically described every billionare we've had going back 100 years.

[granite plinth]

yeah but not that old that they wouldnt understand this kind of issue. Seeing they do pass quite a bit of laws for the digital landscape they seem to somewhat be in touch

[opaque raven]

It was for the best
Imagine not paying rent, not having to deal with traffic, just...being a newt

[worthy ivy]

also yes

[nova bough]

hahshahahahahahahahahahaahaha

[wispy plover]

I had a game n watch! shakes fist violently at the clouds

[humble aspen]

lol

[cursive solar]

idea for a magic the gathering card 👀 /s

[thick ledge]

I'd argue alot of the legislation they passed is relatively simple

Good but simple

[indigo wadi]

No they are nor in touch.

[humble aspen]

Different one though, Thor showed it on stream

[brazen drift]

Thor inspired me to try getting someone to walk in a box in Godot and it made me miserable so i blame him for my depression /j

[thick ledge]

Anyway I don't wanna debate it

[worthy ivy]

put that back in #thorchan damnit

[north lintel]

Right but my point is why should that be a reason not to change things as they stand when the current laws that are in effect have to contend with that anyway? Why not just throw out any law thats circumvented by that then?

[nova bough]

also yall still on this

[granite plinth]

true and im hoping this would something simple to like dont redefine buy and just say lease. or something

[worthy ivy]

shits cursed

[thick ledge]

Thor both cured and caused my depression, DINKLEBERG

[wet storm]

It's unending

[brittle jacinth]

yeah not enough diversion

[granite plinth]

True

[wet storm]

The human need to be heard is powerful

[worthy ivy]

this is #streamchat so for now, yes?

[thick ledge]

@nova bough give cat pics I need them

[worthy ivy]

also this

[thick ledge]

I need them to be more powerful

[past harbor]

A very very very small fraction of laws exist around closing a business? What are you talking about?

[brazen drift]

We'll probably still be on this until we get one day where someone doesn't release a video about it

[frosty spear]

At this point you do not care for other people do ya? also the dev it's more than likely going to hurt will be the indies which is the main creative source these days. And don't go with well the initiative doesn't intend to touch single playergames, because imtentions doesn't equate to actual pledges of something not happening

[wet storm]

Man that hardcore wow stuff

[earnest mirage]

i have over a hundret meatball pics

[wet storm]

Pretty heavy

I regret this

[brazen drift]

and then it'll be back at the end of the month no matter what happens

[brittle jacinth]

witch one there a lot currently

[wet storm]

I immediately regret this

[cursive solar]

yeah guys, lets talk about how pineapple on pizza is actually criminal and people should be put into jail for liking it

[thick ledge]

KILL MODE ACTIVATED

[past harbor]

should've used the mana gem obviously

[north lintel]

You brought it up, not me

[opaque raven]

Which drama was before WoW btw? I only know of those 2

[wet storm]

My regret only increases every minute

[nova bough]

cat is being a cat

[thick ledge]

KILL MODE ENGAGED

Look at that cat

[past harbor]

Yeah and then you tried to create some incredibly reductive argument by equating a very specific situation with "every law known to man"

[frosty spear]

I'm well aware, just I haven't seen mutta's comments like this because he does sort of moderate them from what I rmember

[wet storm]

Oreo cats are the best

[brittle jacinth]

thought it was some else than cat at first....

[fickle bluff]

There's a comic on twitter about a witch that cursed people into furries, but they actually liked it and made her filthy rich by commissioning her curses.

[late bane]

[wispy plover]

The real absolute stupidity of the matter is that you know... you just KNOW that if it passes and ends up becoming this huge disaster (for arguments sake), there will be someone out there like "Wow, I can't believe Thor made SKG pass. "

[opaque raven]

I sense a lack of dogs here....

[wet storm]

This is our lil oreo

[brazen drift]

I made the mistake of looking at moistcriticals latest video and theres a lot of comments like "i bet if it passes piratesoftwares going to try and take credit somehow"

[thick ledge]

Acorn is watching me discuss with you all next to my various hydrations

[wet storm]

I'll send some doggo pics tomorrow

[north lintel]

I didnt say anything of the sort so i dont know why you put "every law known to man" in quotes as if I did. If your going to misrepresent what I said to that degree, im just going to stop discussing this with you.

[brazen drift]

WHY DOES ACORN LOOK SAD

YOU PET THAT CAT

[white mica]

for a second i thought that carpet was a ouija board

[wispy plover]

https://tenor.com/view/so-it-begins-raining-rainy-day-théoden-lord-of-the-rings-gif-16521230

[warped venture]

acorn has resting sad face

[thick ledge]

SHE ALWAYS LOOKS SAD THATS HER FACE IM SORRY

[brittle jacinth]

its like this everywhere i've seen random people getting strays from old ass drama cause something new that was "related" to them by topic or inlusion came up. Thats why the first rule is to never check comments

[fluid dome]

Acorn is sad bc Thor

[thick ledge]

I ALREADY SPOIL TF OUT OF HER

[wet storm]

It is some miracle there's an orange cat AND unatended beverages on the same picture

[thick ledge]

She only slaps little things

Like bottle cap or smaller

[nova bough]

i think by now yall might just have seen my entire house in cat pics

[fluid dome]

It was all Thor's doing obviously /j

[warped venture]

[wispy plover]

I can't believe Thor made Acorn sad.

[brittle jacinth]

When do we reconstruct in 3d your house

[wet storm]

fwiw you have a pretty dope kitchen

[white mica]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WU1mvH6bqo have a random video

[nova bough]

i love my kitchen

[opaque raven]

Baby ❤️

[wet storm]

Smooshed

[frosty spear]

Know what he should take the credit because this latest wave of momentum is based on people drama farming. After all in the last 10 months the only thing that Ross actually did that properly started the discussion is to coordinate with others to do a brigade. And yeah I'm starting to think it's coordinated at this point

[brazen drift]

have my stupid cat

[fickle bluff]

We've always known what it looked like. Been in your walls the entire time.

[thick ledge]

Good cat

[fluid dome]

Why would Thor do this

[brittle jacinth]

yeah saw it too. worse thing in all of that he's not even named once in the vid so its just drama comments

[thick ledge]

I love the abundance of cat havers

[nova bough]

i wouldnt take credit if it were me. not after death threats and targeting of family, employees, and the rescue.

[brazen drift]

Lotta projecting in those comments honestly

[warped venture]

gravelord nito

[thick ledge]

Thor said something matter of factly or said something in a slightly abrasive manner? Literally hitler

[wet storm]

Oreo cat!!

[nova bough]

another tuxie

[brazen drift]

majestic whiskers

[north lintel]

Nah Ross doesnt need to co-ordinate anything. Dramatube will dramatube.

[wet storm]

But fluffy

[brittle jacinth]

i would just to piss them. like if they are to hate me at least i'm giving them a good reason to do so

[white mica]

noot noot

[brittle jacinth]

Cat

[frosty spear]

It's not that, I've also seen it before. It's that Mutta which from what I remember moderated his comment section to not get out of hand is allowing it now

[thick ledge]

Forest I like ur cat and would like to brush it

Does your cat like to be brushed

[brittle jacinth]

true

[warped venture]

nito hates being brushed xD solaire loves it tho

[frosty spear]

Moist critical and some ordinary gamers both released videos on the same hour today

[brazen drift]

You think Ross can Coordinate a bunch of youtubers??? bro couldn't coordinate the worlds easiest petition

[thick ledge]

Brushing makes acorn want to play fight

That's like her favorite thing

[frosty spear]

True

[nova bough]

this is why i like shorthair kitties. i dont have to worry as much about brushing

[thick ledge]

I still brush her even if she's short hair

[brittle jacinth]

at a certain point you cannot moderate everything and its drama farming so its even more impossible

[north lintel]

Yeah they both cover similar things

[worthy ivy]

his cutout could though?

[thick ledge]

I have a really fine tooth comb for pulling her shed undercoat out

Helps her stay cool

[frosty spear]

But Mutta did call Ross a friend and was singing his praises so not out of the question

[brazen drift]

I'm a pessimist, I assume he probably called him a friend so he can be on Ross' good side if the initiative passed in a very highschool popular kid move

[white mica]

i sometimes wonder if ross didnt literally pay people to say stuff about SKG with how quickly everyone jumped on the thor hate train

[brazen drift]

You don't have to be paid to jump on the thor hate train if you're jealous of him

[white mica]

true

[brazen drift]

I mean have you seen that mans hair?

im sure thers so many jealous people

[north lintel]

Maybe, or maybe theyre just friends?

[thick ledge]

Alot of people think somehow thor doesn't deserve success for some reason

[radiant escarp]

one of my friends won't shut up about the stupid DMCA thing

[brazen drift]

idk maybe they are. i only have my pessimism over youtuber drama and the amount of backstabing and double-faced people out there ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[radiant escarp]

he randomly sent me a video about it

[fickle bluff]

That's my beard he stole 7 years ago

[thick ledge]

50% of the population is dumber than average bryanicus... Hate to tell you this about your friend

[radiant escarp]

I haven't talked to him about the drama in 4 months since the WoW thing and I've expressed that I have no interest in discussing it

[brittle jacinth]

cause he worked at blizzard and we all know that blizzard employee are all and always shit. jk

[frosty spear]

Tell them that dmca's doesn't work for piracy unless you throw the one doing it in prison. Like you send a dmca they shut the server whatever next day they are up again

[worthy ivy]

I would kill someone - literally kill someone - in front of their own grandmother to have Thor's hair /j

my pfp gives the illusion of hirsuiteness (if that's a word?) but the hat conceals a veritable flesh tundra beneath 😦

[tight bramble]

I unsubbed and "don't recommend" both of them. Only focusing on bullshit high school level drama in the internet isn't a career, its an embarrassing obsession. If any of you call me jealous because they're rich, I'll have you know i served my nation's military for a damn decade. I know what true sacrifice and service to one's community is. I fully accepted my mortality when I was 17 years old. Im not afraid of the backlash.

[brazen drift]

woosp

flesh tundra is not a word i wanted to read today

[worthy ivy]

joking about the killing part

not the hair 🙂

[radiant escarp]

no, it was the whole "indie game DMCA" thing from 4+ months ago

[wind hare]

I saw some people calling him out for how he explains issues to people with his Paint app. Those people think they are being talked down to. Instead if they knew that people all learn different ways, and to also show what you are talking about visually can actually help people follow the discussion you wouldn't be mad. But they are.

It also might have to do with how he rocketed to fame, something they had to "work harder" to get. Now they are mad at the level he is at and they are not.

[north lintel]

And i was just starting to warm up to you

[worthy ivy]

twice now I have referred to my flesh tundra and twice now that has been the response

[gloomy forge]

Many indies want to work in AAA and many AAA devs that become indies make good indie games. People just wanna go follow a narrative because Blizzard bad. They're bad as a publisher and destributer of games but they're not bad developers.

[worthy ivy]

2/2 good job

[tight bramble]

Im so angry at all of this drama and hateful mud slinging. Just so angry. This isn't how its supposed to work.

[brittle jacinth]

do they not know that some have a easier time understanding if they have image or that its easier to not get lost when you speak about it

[brazen drift]

he worked for blizzard AND the Government clearly he has an agenda!! /s

[radiant escarp]

It was the one he addressed in the comments of the "Anything For Content" video

[opaque raven]

Adorable when sleeping ❤️

[indigo wadi]

Yes it is, Eff you, poopiehead

[wind hare]

Some people really hated school

[thick ledge]

Thor is an industry plant, planted by who? Uhh idk

Lmao

[worthy ivy]

AAA and AA and even AAAA (ewww) are just investment categories - nothing to do with the actual quality or scope of the games themselves

[north lintel]

No point getting angry about it, thats the whole poing

Poing

POINT

[thick ledge]

Poing

[wind hare]

He's a plant, by big Sunflower.

[frosty spear]

Imo Technically Thor should have done a defamation thing and then it wouldn't have been as much drama but because he dmcad the game under the impression it had his voice in it without permissions yeah...

[tight bramble]

Nope its poing now

[north lintel]

For f@£ks sake

My reputation is ruined.

[gloomy forge]

Yeah true, I was mostly using AAA as an umbrella term like "big company" as many do.

[indigo wadi]

too much money and too much stress/trouble for probably very little pay

[thick ledge]

Argument invalidated he said poing that one time

[brittle jacinth]

should have edited

[worthy ivy]

this is poingless I'm taking a smoke break /j

[tight bramble]

Chapter 11 at any moment now

[brisk sparrow]

minor spelling mistake moment

[nova bough]

AAA or games with a big name publisher.

[north lintel]

Theres no poing in living anymore

[wind hare]

People get tricked. The dude put out statements he was doing something but wasn't. Shit happens

[worthy ivy]

welcome to your hallowed place in the goblin discord-canon 🙂

poing to an example

[thick ledge]

Come have a seat in the my boned corner with me

[late bane]

Huh

[thick ledge]

I never ment for this to be my BRAND but here we are

[worthy ivy]

oh noes, I got turned around and am now poinging in the wrong direction

[thick ledge]

I've even got a piratesoftware wikipage about MY typo

[brittle jacinth]

i need the link pls

[late bane]

There's a wiki?

[fickle bluff]

In the what corner?

[maiden talon]

Zafaroth has a wiki page for everything about him

[thick ledge]

There's fan edit songs of me typing my boned, there's image macros

[maiden talon]

or was that zultralord? idk, everyone around here looks the same to me

[late bane]

You're famous then

[maiden talon]

https://tenor.com/view/thor-zafaroth-myboned-piratesoftware-gif-14642851202891759962

^actual Zaf selfie

[opaque raven]

I don't remember who recommended me to try peanut butter but you own me my money back

[opaque raven]

Not good, shame on you america

[north lintel]

Well at least im in good boned conpany

[maiden talon]

(hes secretly Thor in disguise, which is why you never see them around at the same time)

[thick ledge]

MY BONED - Pirate Software Wiki https://share.google/CJXaMURsZh4nwSTzd

[late bane]

Truuue

[late bane]

Such a cursed face

[wind hare]

I mean, how did you eat it? There are many foods that use it as an ingredient.

[radiant escarp]

yeah, probably the wrong move, but still, the video tried to make him out to be a bully... it just feels bad. What I got from it was that the developer of that game was a bit of an ass about it but since "Indie dev gets false DMCA" is such a catchy tagline, people don't really pay attention to the rest of the situation.

Also side note, I hate drama youtubers, they all sound like condescending assholes in their content. like they're constantly like "Huh Huh, got you now..."

[late bane]

Just looks through you

[opaque raven]

Spread on top of a toast with some blueberry jam

[worthy ivy]

(you have to imagine the spinny-around-bit music for yourself)

[wet storm]

Looks like there's a sticker glued to my monitor

[thick ledge]

Love that if you look closely enough, his eyes go in different directions

[wind hare]

What was your ratio of PB to Jam

[maiden talon]

there should always be slightly more jam

[white mica]

50/50

[opaque raven]

2:1

[gloomy forge]

Because they get massive paychecks, obviously they're happy. Lots of people playfully criticising the drama playbook though. Look up the term dramaslop.

[opaque raven]

Might try 1:2

[wet storm]

1 tbsp of each

[worthy ivy]

kamehamethor

[maiden talon]

one of them is looking at chat being weird, the other is looking at Meatball being weird

[wet storm]

But it has to be chunky pb

[wind hare]

Personally I like more Jelly than PB

[opaque raven]

I got the creamy one

[wind hare]

Its really good with Celery

[wispy plover]

Out of curiosity, what brand? It makes a difference.

[opaque raven]

I might give it a try with Nutella later, could make sense but it will be basically research of diabetes 3

[wind hare]

If peanuts are called Monkey Nuts in England, then do they call it Monkey Butter?

[wet storm]

Here's a video that isn't drama but just fun and entertaining

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrRZ-kKnBEw

[opaque raven]

Paradiso
The only one I could find

[thick ledge]

Have you guys played any peak

[brazen drift]

peak was fun

[fluid dome]

In a story I wanna write that I may or may not incorporate as the plot of my game I'm planning, I wanna have my fursona (Umbra) become the most powerful witch

[wind hare]

I don't have any friends 😦

[idle hill]

Yeah, Minecraft(Java)

[thick ledge]

https://youtube.com/shorts/CKhFKEsGpvU?si=5DXTJEYD2Afhf5_Z

It's well. Peak

[north lintel]

We only call them monkey nuts if theyre whole in the shell. Other wise we call them peanuts

[thick ledge]

D: I'll play peak with u if u want

[wispy plover]

Ah, I've never had that brand.

[wind hare]

Maybe, I am looking forward to Rimworld right now so thats my next game purchase.

We should have a multiplayer Rimworld server

[exotic forge]

2:1

[wind hare]

I saw some streamers try it a year ago and it seemed fun

[clear raft]

Hey does anybody know anything about some pirate software controversy? I'm not here to start an argument or fight with anybody. I just want to see the unedited clip of what Thor said and anything he said later on talking about that clip. Again I'm not here to hate on Thor, I just saw another youtuber talking about the games petition and kinda talking down on Thor. Since I like both Thor and this other guy I just want to get objective facts so I can form my own opinion. If this is the wrong channel to post this in please let me know.

[wet storm]

https://tenor.com/view/nuts-kungpow-kung-pow-gif-9683595275267613636

[dusky grove]

His skg vids from 10 months ago and the recent tweets

[opaque raven]

From what I looked we don't have that many brands of pb here and this is by far the most sold one

[radiant escarp]

yep, just checked that video

[exotic forge]

Hey you're taking the right approach with this. Goodluck in forming your own opinion on the matter

[clear raft]

What does skg stand for? Is this something that happened recently or is this some Thor said in the past?

[north lintel]

I would recommend continue to like them both and not concern yourself with manufactured drama.

[exotic forge]

See that? I can be nice to new people!

[idle hill]

He's got two videos, simply titled "Stop Killing Games" - the first one had a pinned comment with information that is also important
His more recent tweets on the topic explain a bit further on some aspects and address some of the controversy

[wind hare]

I need to make a Thor drama wiki where I can point people to lol

[idle hill]

I believe this should work here?

!skg

[dapper raven]

You can see my nearly year old videos about this here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioqSvLqB46Y and here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3jMKeg9S-s Make sure to read the pinned FAQ on the first video. Everything I wanted to say has already been said here.

[wind hare]

Oh

that works

[clear raft]

It's not really that I'm concerned with the drama but rather that I want to learn about both perspectives so that I can form my own opinion

[dusky grove]

"Stop killing games" its an initiative started by ross scott that thor thinks is undercooked. He had some choice words which ended up causing people to get mad

[rancid mauve]

also, the most recent official statement from Thor #news message

[wispy plover]

Yea I looked it up. Was gonna say if you have access to Adams, it is a pretty solid brand. No sugary overload, which is a problem with a lot of foods in the US.

[clear raft]

You guys are amazing and once again great community going on here. Thank you for not attacking me but rather assisting me on my side quest ❤️

[idle hill]

we'd never attack someone for simply asking nicely

[radiant escarp]

We should make a Piratesoftware drama video bingo card

[north lintel]

Unless someone asked nicely to be attacked.

[dusky grove]

This place is a library for information, this is basically the little stand where they keep the newspapers

[opaque raven]

I mean, I can always order it on Amazon just fine.
I will give it a try, a final last honest to god try
This one, right?

[wispy plover]

An SKG version would be very easy. Not that I am encouraging it lol

[north lintel]

Or if they say poing

[wet storm]

Sounds good. You doing it for fitness or just for flavour?

[wispy plover]

Yes, that is the stuff.

[dusky grove]

Man... kids are gonna grow up not knowing what newspapers are... ugh curse you time for not stopping when i want you to

[fluid dome]

I miss Dead Space

[clear raft]

I love that about this place. Even if I disagree with Thor I'm sticking around because he has built this amazing community and seems to me to give good takes

[opaque raven]

Just to test new things honestly

[wet storm]

I would suggest for fitness to avoid stuff with added sugars. Seems this one doesn't have it

[wind hare]

I mean if you want the taste everyone first has in America then you need Jif or Skippy

[dusky grove]

Ngl, i wanna make my own PB. Its just blending peanuts, right?

[wispy plover]

Also, I am not big on peanut butters that are too runny when mixed. I know I'm american, but I can't handle THAT much oil...

[north lintel]

Yeah sorry i misunderstood your initial request by the way i thought you were worried about whose side to be on in "the drama"

[nova bough]

kids are growing up not knowing what PCs are.

[wet storm]

Prety much. Works well in a food processor

[light locust]

https://tenor.com/view/ah-kid-peanut-butter-baby-peanut-butter-do-you-like-that-yeah-gif-14466576

[wet storm]

They go crumblythen become oily

[dusky grove]

Now i'm craving some peanut butter noodles

[opaque raven]

What I want is to give a honest try to peanut butter
The correct brand, the correct ratio of jam, a perfect try
If I don't like it, cool, at least I gave it a good try

[wet storm]

You toast them and blend them and bam

I'm too lazy for that and the 40 oz tub is super cheap

[dusky grove]

Peanut butter, chili oil, crunchy fried garlic, spring onions... mmhh yum

[opaque raven]

The one I got wasn't that good but my gf loved it, so it's not even close to go to waste anyway

[wet storm]

pb is a superfood fr

[exotic forge]

You're probably the first person who geniunely wants to learn both sides' arguments and not immediately come in here and attack Thor

[clear raft]

I struggle with wording these things as to not come off that way. I appreciate you.

[nova bough]

i have been craving roast beef sandwiches, mostly arbys.

so i bought all the ingredients and have just been eating them. Hopefully the craving dies soon

[tight bramble]

Damn am i seeing someone come in and NOT be a shitheel? -owen Wilson meme-

[radiant escarp]

I can post the video in case you're wondering, unless it would be better for me to DM it to you

[wind hare]

Also something to think about

[north lintel]

You worded it fine im just a dumbass

[wet storm]

America: a nation divided

[dusky grove]

I heard that NBA players have PBnJ buffets

[wet storm]

Except when it comes to crust

[wet storm]

NO 🫵 you're cool

[north lintel]

Ok fine im a cool dumbass

[opaque raven]

With açaí and some fruits it isn't that bad

[wind hare]

I thought Grape would be more popular

[wet storm]

I'd destroy that

[dusky grove]

Donkey with an airconditioner...

[idle hill]

Raspberry my beloved

[tight bramble]

So I'm just a grunt. What, I say, HWAT is acai?

[dusky grove]

Blueberry is the best jam, everyone else is wrong

[north lintel]

I have never eaten a pb+j

[idle hill]

it's okay to be wrong sometimes too brother

[wispy plover]

Hell yea. That's a good use for it actually

[wet storm]

Fruit from a tree in the Amazon (brazil mentioned)

[tight bramble]

Oh better call the slop tubers. New drama just dropped!

[wet storm]

It's very earthy, goes well with guarana syrup

[tight bramble]

Oh ok

[dusky grove]

Its like a berry or a seed or smth. Its one of those health foods that people on diets like

[wind hare]

If its the Berry in the photo it looks just like a Blueberry\

[clear raft]

So far with everything I'm seeing about this drama I'm actually kind of upset that one of the youtubers I watch would say something like this.