streamchat

[elder scaffold]

i love hoe the other fish dont react at all

[golden latch]

Oh no “netcode”

[elder scaffold]

netcode lmao

even as a non coder i know thats not a thing

[wind hare]

How is Netcode not a thing?

[marsh dove]

[stone prairie]

It's a blank term for all networking..

[golden latch]

👋 hi hi

[stone prairie]

Which means he code be responsible for the config on a random switch and make the claim 'I write netcode'.

[cursive solar]

?

[elder scaffold]

maybe i am stoopid

[cursive solar]

thats not how that works

[elder scaffold]

but ive always been told that netcode is just a very broad and often misused term for the code that connects players together in multiplayer games

[jolly sky]

I meant the Second. I also don't except him to apologise on behalf of other peoples actions.

I have never really heard anything from Ross either saying "I'm sorry this is happening to you," (or something along those lines) And if he did say sorry and mean that, then making a 30+ minute segment about pinning the flagging of the Initiative squarely on Thor's shoulders sure makes that look disingenuous

[wind hare]

No reason to bash the person about what they do without learning, like, what they actually do

[golden latch]

The netcode joke is thats its a bad characterization of the work but it’s understandable why they express it this way

[nova bough]

i havent specifically heard of netcoder, but i do know in large companies there are individals that all they do are configure/maintain/troubleshoot the network layer within the company

[gloomy forge]

Yeah thats so strange. Ross should denounce the harrassment, hes not a bad guy he wouldn't do stuff like that backhandidly. "Kick someone down who already has been kicked down" kinda deal. Thor is a tough guy, even he think that all of this is a PvP zone and you win some, you lose some.

[shy mist]

Alright next time I see it I'll bring it. Thanks for your composed reply, I've liked your willingness during your replies these days

[jolly prism]

Welp, if you have Cohh of all people making fun of you then you are truly doomed.

[nova bough]

im interested in this guy, but hes very slow to get to the point

[gloomy forge]

Weirdly enough, people always say stuff like "thor is a lair and does a lot of horrible shit" but by the way of how he literally does things that seems to imply the opposite. Its just weird that people conflict that with narcissicm. Can't a guy just have strong convictions anymore even if it rubs people off? Just saying.

[cursive solar]

yea hes very slow, seems quite shy but he seems like he knows at least what hes talking about

[jolly sky]

To be fair he's also going a lot into how the Past vs the Present worked. Hopefully that actually gets people to understand from an outside perspective.

[cursive solar]

when in doubt 2x speed

[gloomy forge]

Not only that but I never seen evidence of any "horrible shit" anyways so its probably slander.

[hasty grail]

its always slander

[nova bough]

from what ive watched he does. (disclaimer, i dont do video game dev specifically, but i do help maintain back end infrastructure. and that does include working with the folks over in networking.)

[golden latch]

Trying

[shy mist]

The 30 minute reply imho is him pointing out that Thor's reply completely misunderstands the written word of the initiative. I did not see any bad faith or rant myself honestly. And what he does say in terms of responsibility is that you can check the data and see that once Thor made his reaction video, the momentum for the poll went drastically down. is that not true?

Isn't that result something Thor should be proud of anyway? He did say he hated the initiative and wanted people to go against it, didn't he.

[jolly sky]

Sometimes people hate honesty and cannot stand someone speaking with confidence. I really cannot understand that sentiment

[jovial sandal]

oh boy, another CEO- I mean, totally legitimate chatter

[golden latch]

this is about networking

[hasty grail]

oi

Kal, give them a chance first

[brisk spoke]

Unfortunately that's just current internet mentality. If people think the 90s were bad with internet trolls and toxic mentality, they haven't seen the modern internet mentality. And it only gets worse. I honestly commend Thor for standing his ground because that's NOT an easy thing to do nowadays.

[jolly sky]

If SKG started off with making Log-in based Single Player only games allow for people to play the game after the Auth servers go down, that would have been a slam dunk.

But SKG wants far more than that, and was not prepared for what it would take to work around it.

[hasty grail]

not everyone is here to be dicks

[golden latch]

Do you have that on copy paste now?

[nova bough]

im here for cats

[wary saffron]

can you donate some images?

[golden latch]

I mean i get it it feels like they do too

[cursive solar]

https://tenor.com/view/takayuki-yagami-yagami-yagami-takayuki-wet-cat-wetcat-gif-7016496176520859335

[wary saffron]

w

[jolly sky]

Considering either new people to a discussion, or people that refuse to understand that, yea its one among a few

[golden latch]

Just noticed is all its a good one

[marsh dove]

When is a game single player? A company could easily add token online stuff and claim its not single player

[outer cobalt]

SKG applies to free to play, live service games as well

[frosty mural]

I can see the future and there are very high chances of you all going to see something like this

[outer cobalt]

So even if you didnt buy the game, supporting SKG means you still expect game devs to support preservation

[golden latch]

Oh that looks familiar

[jolly sky]

SKG wants a lot of things, and there's a lot of things that we as a community can agree on.

But the Initiative failed to account for the vast amount of currently existing laws, and the complexity of game development, from a AAA perspective, all the way down to the indie developer.

[worthy ivy]

the issue is that you are required to not just obey, but agree - it's the 1984 thing: obedience isn't enough, you have to accept judgement and prostrate yourself before - and love - the mob

[frosty mural]

[brisk spoke]

Wait, are these the "friends" we were referring to earlier?

[wind hare]

Its just in poor taste. I thought a streamer at his level would understand that feeding into this whole thing wasn't something good and it wasn't funny anymore. I was more disappointed.

[golden latch]

Oh thank goodness, im in the wrong servers, i thought for a second that was the hand and foot prayge

[gloomy forge]

Ugh, yeah thats kinda weird it turned out to be this way.

[hazy storm]

Sounds efficient

[jolly sky]

So, what do you do about the games that fundamentally cannot run off a customers computer?

[worthy ivy]

welcome to the internet in 2025 🙂

[outer cobalt]

But why? Why do game devs need to honor this? Even for free to play games?

[wary saffron]

I'm curious how you think this would work for games like modern warfare... how is a person going to locally run a 100+ plus lobby on their pc?

[outer cobalt]

how does making this a law makes any sense

[shy mist]

Alright tuning out. I keep saying to myself that I have no reason to be back here talking about this but it's like something I find myself needing emotionally or something. Hopefully I won't be back until after the SKG discussion spiral, but probably I'll come back soon T.T

I like and respect y'all, cheers

[jolly prism]

Exactly. It is so mainstream now (to make fun of Thor) that even Cohh will do it without thinking twice. Which brings me to a point I have not raised here in a bit - Thor truly needs to start addressing these issues differently, if he wants the constant dramas to stop. If you do the same things expecting a different result - I think they call it insanity.

[outer cobalt]

Why does he? Thor is right.

[dusky grove]

I don't think all artists create art with the goal of it lasting forever. Paint fades, statues break, music gets forgotten, stories morph and deform over the years. To make devs have to plan for preservation is contrary to other artforms

[jolly sky]

You sure as hell can't blame the devs for taking advantage of technology to make games that millions of people enjoy and play

[outer cobalt]

Even if players spent money in microtransactions, the game devs should not be beholden to giving them the game to play

[gloomy forge]

Take good care hope you have a great day.

[dusky grove]

Art is not created to last forever, it's created to exist in the moment

[worthy ivy]

what's that smell?

[dusky grove]

bait

[jolly sky]

"Thor is wrong"

About what exactly?

[hazy storm]

Fish

[worthy ivy]

smells like...

ban evasion?

[outer cobalt]

Tbrh i dont think the EUC will care

[tiny sleet]

Is the channel getting botted again? Viewership jumped from 10k to 15k

[hasty grail]

yea

[worthy ivy]

someone here has been here before haven't they??

[brisk spoke]

https://tenor.com/view/stick-man-swallowed-fish-waterproof-scene-gif-25797404

[dusky grove]

wouldn't be surprised

[hasty grail]

looks like its going to be the quirk for today

[wary saffron]

probably

[outer cobalt]

See, thats the attitude thats so weird about the whole topic

[hasty grail]

remain calm and carry on

[serene valley]

I dont think you can say objectively and then say thats what you think

That would be subjective

[outer cobalt]

no, game devs should not be required to preserve games

[golden latch]

Its been going up and down it’s expected atm

[idle hill]

"Objectively speaking" - no, you are trying to use your subjective opinion for more credibility. Thor was talked about with this in his talk with Dr. K

[outer cobalt]

You cannot blame your spending habits on someone else

The SKG folks think that the inability to communicate and think is a feature of the petition

[tiny sleet]

It's just Thor usually puts up a memo that twitch was informed. I've just tuned back in recently.

[gloomy forge]

I disagree with this statement, artmovements from the postmodern era did proof that art is sort of everlasting, only the context on how someone interprets the art of "yesterday" changes. Not only that, buildings and such are also art. Its not just drawings. But I do agree that "art that is not supposed to last forever" is also a type of art. Art is such a huge umbrella term of anything that impacts you in a way that honestly it can be everything.

[worthy ivy]

although I have to say referencing previous chat in your display name is a ballsy move

[wind hare]

Now that I think is a seperate topic. I think everything should be arcived and when the copyright runs out, it becomes open source. The Fallout dev just commented about how he was told to destroy all his code for the first game because the company didn't want him to have it.

[brisk spoke]

I'm pulling away from this convo as well. Heading off to the hackerspace. Please take care of yourselves everyone, especially in this heat. And stay hydrated!

[jolly sky]

How do you know he's wrong?

[hasty grail]

https://tenor.com/view/preston-garvey-fallout-fo4-another-settlement-gif-16895459270352605670

to scare you off properly

[outer cobalt]

game devs can support efforts to do so via modding and emulation but that is certainly not the responsibility of the game dev to do so

[brisk spoke]

No, Preston. No.

[hazy storm]

Who is preston

[jolly sky]

You can disagree. Unlike other spaces on the internet, we allow for polite discussion here, even Thor himself will be happily to take a disagreement. But tell me where you think he's wrong

[idle hill]

Objectively, Thor was rude in the way he put his opinion and not supporting SKG, which he realized and apologized for. He was not wrong in believing the way the petition was written could end up harming consumers, developers, AND publishers, even explaining his viewpoint on how that could be the case.

[outer cobalt]

Im making a game but tbrh i didnt expect gamers to be that entitled

[serene valley]

The guy in the fallout gif

[wary saffron]

might have to join you there, but instead of going to hackerspace I might just go back to making that website i'm meant to make for my project

[hasty grail]

Fallout 4, Preston Garvey, sends you on missions to protect settlements for his faction

[serene valley]

This guy is preston

[brisk spoke]

The character in the gif posted by Stapel. Preston Garvey

[hazy storm]

Oh man. Another game on my backlog

[gloomy forge]

Have a nice day yeah drink some water is also something I should do.

[dusky grove]

But those movements aren't created by the creators of those pieces themselves, no? They're created by the people that come after.

Obviously we can't get into the minds of Capaldi or Van gogh or anyone from the past, but preservation efforts have almost always been started by the consumer, much like SKG is.

The only difference is that SKG is trying to cross the line and interfere with the process of creation as well in the name of preservation.

[hazy storm]

I have like 1 dozen on my library and 40 on wishlist

[wind hare]

Why not? You submitted a game as copywrite material, you must submit the code to a database that will release when that copyright falls off. ]\

[idle hill]

Preston "Banished to Mechanist's Lair" Garvey

[jolly sky]

Tell us why you think he's wrong, rather than just saying he is.

[jovial sandal]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-luke-skywalker-what-you-said-is-wrong-wrong-every-word-you-said-is-wrong-gif-18300626

[bronze summit]

hey watch this, Thor is right? now what lol

[hasty grail]

ive been playing a modpack and he is MUCH better in it, thus able to tolerate his nonsense

[idle hill]

Again, that is a subjective opinion, it is not objective.

[hazy storm]

Is fallout 76 worth it

[outer cobalt]

No, thats not how copyrights work LMAO

[idle hill]

Never played it

[hasty grail]

its fun to screw around in

[wind hare]

I'm saying thats how it could work

[hasty grail]

if you want more FO4 gameplay then go play FO76

[outer cobalt]

That should be a community effort, not the devs

[hazy storm]

Saying how it could work doesn't change how it actuality works

[jovial sandal]

you dont submit anything for copyright. if the work exists, its automatically granted copyright protections

[jolly sky]

Not what I asked.

Why do you think he's wrong

[bronze summit]

I watched all 2 hours with drk bud, what do you think it showed

[dusky grove]

The only one who can judge that is you. I would say buy and play it for an hour and refund if its not fun for you

[wary saffron]

One last thing...

[gloomy forge]

That is a great argument against "forced preservation", i agree with that. art is all about freedom. If you restrict art, then that implies that its not art anymore and the whole logic of what makes art would also break apart. I think you can either make a SKG a grassroots movement (fight politics with its own means) which will 100% help the cause or make it so devs of games don't bear the burden.

[worthy ivy]

did you see that 'kids thor is an arrogant liar' dude that as in here before who couldn't handle a proper discussion or admit when he’s wrong?

[wind hare]

I'm talking about a What If, so thats the topic of discussion.

[worthy ivy]

it's that smell again

*sniffs

ban evasion

[jolly sky]

Also, incorrect as I've talked to him in a VC with multiple people, and disagreements where we've both left understanding each others points and also convincing each other of our perspectives.

Nice conjecture though /s

[golden latch]

We have gotten a lot oh _ names recently yeah

[bronze summit]

LOL

[jolly sky]

Then tell us why you think he's wrong

[idle hill]

Dr. K would tell you that you're wrong

[worthy ivy]

but what do you think about what that 'kids thor is an arrogant liar' dude was saying? are 'you' as extreme as 'he' was in his view?

[jolly sky]

Still waiting on that

[wary saffron]

I just can't be bothered to do it myself

[green plank]

thats wild to take a drk interview and try to psychoanalysis a guy on the internet with it

your braindead

[jolly sky]

Are you proof that Thor is wrong?

If so, tell us why you think that.

[golden latch]

And get it wrong

[wind hare]

The Fallout Dev stated that it should be up to the company to keep the data from the games they made. For postarity. Because they forced him to delete all of his code. I am talking about making it so that then they complete their game and if they want it protected, then they need to also keep it and not delete it until the copyright goes away. Therefore saved the code for later generations

[idle hill]

Legit I looked at your name and thought "why are you white"

[stone prairie]

Wild. Once again, remember you can't argue someone out of a position they got into based on feelings. Otherwise they'd have evidence to support their claims!

[worthy ivy]

nothing?

[dusky grove]

I will concede that thor's attitude can be abrasive to some, and his logic first emotions seconds debate style is something people can see as out of touch at times.

But "Objectively Wrong" is impossible when the SKG text is vague and left up to interpretation. Interpretation is inherently subjective and opinion based. And until it gets focused and honed into something, he cannot be "objectively" wrong

[jolly sky]

Careful, no politics allowed here

[nova bough]

13:15 is a good timestamp. but i will say what hes explaining isnt in the SKG initiative.

17:00 is another good timestamp. he doesnt buy that devs cant find a way around it for like mmos.... but he mentions them and the EU lawmakers will get together and make it all work.

after that he goes into what has happened in the past with games that are live service (and should be) ; but the solutions that were provided were done in good faith, and good faith doesnt go well into law.

at 27:00 he goes into what devs could do to make online games offline, to do instead of having a server to write to.

28:00 i think is his end thoughts. which are he doesnt play online/live service games because they arnt worth his time. which is fair.

---

this is my attempt at a text version of the vid. keep in mind, i did skip around some because he does talk slow and talks about things that i do know.

my .02 on his vid:
like hes right on the money, that all of this is solvable with enough nuance. but imo, he fits in with everyone else who supports SKG from what ive seen - he trusts lawmakers to pull in the right people to make laws that don't harm devs and consumers. I'm still of the opinion that any initiative needs to be targeted to specifically, exactly, what practice is anti-consumer.

[wind hare]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1loei5d/after_revealing_he_was_ordered_to_destroy_his/

[golden latch]

Please try and keep politics out of this

[outer cobalt]

Cant think of a non politics example tbrh but I understand

[jolly prism]

Okay, there are now youtube drama videos attacking not Thor but creators which responded that Thor is getting too much hate. Why can't people be normal.

[worthy ivy]

really, nothing?

[outer cobalt]

Alot of the criticisms at Thor is misguided and simply wrong

[wary saffron]

well given I'm not a game dev, then why would I have anything do anything to do with game preservation??

-# especially because you think it should be up to devs to preserve their games

[green plank]

hey so... if i become a youtube member for a persons channel now to get access to there videos... they are going to perserve those videos forever for me ...right?

[golden latch]

Btw they ignore you if you called them out before

[jolly sky]

Yea I'd delete that. You seem like a reasonable person and I wouldn't want to see you get a warning. Names of, pictures of, gifs of politicians etc aren't allowed here

[dusky grove]

To define "normal" is to draw a line in the sand. And everyone's "normal" will be different

[worthy ivy]

yeah, obvious ban evader is obvious
would mod ticket, but the goblins are having fun so...

[dusky grove]

I've seen enough vtuber graduations to take psychic dmg from this

[jolly prism]

Do not make me defend Thor, please 😭

[green plank]

im assumbing they should be legally obligated to keep there videos and channels up forever for me... since i payed ofc

[worthy ivy]

they'll get themselves nuked again at some point

[idle hill]

It's normal to eat a brick of dry ramen after breaking it up but I miss munching on the brick itself

[wet storm]

A NEW HAND TOUCHES THE BEACON

[golden latch]

I mean you can warn of possibles and let them just watch or atleast monitor its not to much of a hassle and makes it easy if multiple people start to have problems

[hasty grail]

im glad im not the only one who does it

[hazy storm]

Dry ramen is fantastic midnight food

[wary saffron]

anyway, adios chat.

Have fun with SKG talk

[idle hill]

I'm eating a brick rn

[dusky grove]

I could go and chipmunk some ramen rn

[hasty grail]

okay, i now do not feel bad about dry ramen

[wet storm]

You know what good midnight food is?

Taco bell (not sponsored)

[golden latch]

Chipmunk ramen?

[dusky grove]

Hey chat, why did the cannibal go to japan. He wanted to have some authentic raw men

I'm sorry

[wet storm]

There's something magical about having taco bell at 2 am while you work

Not healthy but magical all the same

[wind hare]

Alright well I tried to steer the conversation to another game topic. Guess not

[hazy storm]

No. Its McDonald's fries with hot fudge sundae

[idle hill]

We gotta kill you now, them's the rules

[green plank]

actually on that note, should vtubers not be allowed to graduate since you sub to them when they are part of there company

[idle hill]

no apologizing

[exotic forge]

Oh look, someone who joined this server on July 1, 2025. Im sure this person has a reasonable take on Thor

[bronze summit]

sunchips, naked in the hallway

[wet storm]

What did the cannibal eat when he went to Germany?

[cursive solar]

thanks for the timestamps, im at 19:44 just now, ill go back and look at the timestamps, youve basically got it right too, i dont 100% trust lawmakers but i trust them enough to work with the industry and sort something out, the fact that there is solutions and things that can be done to make it so the initiative and even for what people are asking is enough for me as a consumer and dev (although i should specify im an artist rather than a programmer, but have worked with programmers and im actually learning a little, not enough to speak with authority about programming tho)

[jolly sky]

lmao they're still not answering a very simple question

[dusky grove]

what?

[wet storm]

Hamburgers

[golden latch]

Its okay the self destruction of art is and has been a issue between artist and preservation such as archivists

[dusky grove]

pfft

[worthy ivy]

how dare sir?!

I am a proud Englishman and we operate on the system of innocent until proven guilty (unlike the rest of the interwebs) and as I only have suspicion I will hold fast for now

🙂

[cursive solar]

i really appreciate you taking the time watching the video i linked and sending me this message btw

[worthy ivy]

they may just be a poor misguided soul

[golden latch]

Thats is fine and even honorable

[hasty grail]

as a non-UK person, defend your food because im not sure who else can?

[wet storm]

Can we not bash new people on the server

[brisk sparrow]

I’m sorry, but coming from someone named “unbiased pidgeon” this is really funny to me

[jovial sandal]

that did make me lol, too

[wet storm]

You might not realize it but doing that is exactly what you're criticizing new joiners of

Let the sword of damocles fall on it's own

[jovial sandal]

ehh, sometimes they make it obvious

[idle hill]

I am a proud American (not relevant) and I operate on guilty until proven innocent, where we shift the goalpost every time someone provides evidence countering my argument because I can never be wrong

[nova bough]

i was wondering his thoughts, because he's got a semi-similar career as i do. kind of.

[gloomy forge]

That line goes hard.

[jovial sandal]

multiple accounts created on the same day, all joining today?

[exotic forge]

Sometimes you gotta use your brain and not play dumb

[jolly sky]

Why do you think that Thor is wrong?

Still waiting on an actual response.

[idle hill]

You think I want to be here?

BRO THEN LEAVE

You dont gotta be here

[hazy storm]

Probably because it's Canada day

[wet storm]

For starters he killed loads of giants

Pretty uncalled for

[outer cobalt]

You do know that the SKG intentionally put in misleading words in the EU proposal because they think its “better”?

[sudden forum]

https://tenor.com/view/chud-buddha-chuddha-chud-nothing-ever-happens-gif-5905117637949226818

[dusky grove]

If he does leave he's gonna cry echo chamber isn't he

[hasty grail]

yea

[jolly sky]

No you didn't, because disagreeing with Thor is allowed. Be polite. State your case.

Now I ask again, Why do you think Thor is wrong?

[jolly prism]

You can mention it here. People have to be real shitters to get the hammer here.

[hasty grail]

still hasnt explained why Thor is wrong

[jovial sandal]

including one he was getting married to. V rude behavior

[idle hill]

We're welcoming to discussion but telling us we're wrong and Thor is wrong without any explanation is NOT a discussion

[wet storm]

It'd be funny 'cos I'm like on his boat but not really

I mean I agree with the sentiment but not the means

[worthy ivy]

Think for yourself..... self.....elf.....lf.....
Do your own research.... esearch.... earch....ch...

[outer cobalt]

Ironically EU also gave us DRM

[golden latch]

[dusky grove]

As long as you aren't a douche about it, you can criticise thor as much as you want. You just gotta be respectful and not resort to insults

[wary saffron]

subjectively*

[outer cobalt]

maybe games should all be registered under the same management system

[jolly prism]

That is not how words work

[exotic forge]

Critical Thinking Boss, you joined on July 1, 2025 and started making some pretty wild statements about Thor and SKG. I do hope you adequately address people's questions so as not to aroused suspicion that you're just here from the drama channels

[nova bough]

also right to repair and standardized charging cables (usb c)

[wind hare]

You can go play whatever you want in peace. This is kinda funny. Do you like the attention? You know you can always go play the Sims and torture them for entertainment.

[green plank]

"moral responsibility, to be mean to thor"

[worthy ivy]

yeah, you know about the banhammer already

[wary saffron]

Haven't even watched the video so I don't get the reference

[cursive solar]

im sure having a similar career as the guy is even more interesting in your case too, always love hearing others thoughts, i know that generally people will watch others for confirmation bias but id like to think for myself at least i watch others to see what their takes are, especially when they work in the field or similar field (considering most people who will talk on the issue have no knowledge or background in game dev)

[outer cobalt]

Right to repair was well supported in china of all countries

[dusky grove]

Objectively disagree. Ah yes, because the laws of the universe bend to your will that your opinion suddenly manifests into reality

[jolly sky]

People have been disagreeing with thors perspective here for months dude, because disagreeing with Thor is allowed.

Be polite. State your case.

Now I ask again, Why do you think Thor is wrong?

[brisk sparrow]

You: “thor is wrong”
Us: “why”
You: “he just is, trust me bro”

That’s what you sound like to me

[idle hill]

Mods can I use the clown emotes
I wanna use the clown emotes

[green plank]

i want you to know that drk would be extremely disappointed in your behavior and wouldnt want to ever be associated with you

your a disgrace

[outer cobalt]

Cant say usb c is a good thing tbrh but DRM is still a pretty damning example

[dusky grove]

Now now chat, let's not let the pot boil over

[exotic forge]

"your wrong"

Great argument by Critical Thinking Boss who joined on July 1, 2025.

[jovial sandal]

We're asserting that you're ban evading and using sockpuppet accounts

[idle hill]

Blease mods let me use the meat grinder

[worthy ivy]

you don't need me to be

[dusky grove]

temper yourselves, let's not devolve into kobolds.

[nova bough]

yeah. i was just curious. ive stopped watching most of the vids because its mostly drama farming.

[jolly sky]

People have been disagreeing with thors perspective here for months dude, because disagreeing with Thor is allowed.

Be polite. State your case.

Now I ask again, Why do you think Thor is wrong?

[cursive solar]

thats fair and also very true

[exotic forge]

"your wrong"

[dusky grove]

these*

[hasty grail]

avoiding answering, STILL

[exotic forge]

This kids
Your wrong

[jolly prism]

https://tenor.com/view/old-simpsons-out-of-touch-children-new-generation-gif-4575989

[jolly sky]

Still avoiding answering a very simple question.

People have been disagreeing with thors perspective here for months dude, because disagreeing with Thor is allowed.

Be polite. State your case.

Now I ask again, Why do you think Thor is wrong?

[wet storm]

https://tenor.com/view/youre-youre-correction-youre-meme-youre-gman-gman-gif-21786686

[golden latch]

Oh name calling?

[wary saffron]

can you answer the question please?

[wet storm]

Yeah no this guy is a troll

[flint yarrow]

how's the ceo friend doing? still in that meeting?

[outer cobalt]

Ngl you guys are pretty tolerant with trolls

[jovial sandal]

We love reading. We'd love to read your response to Dan's question

[idle hill]

https://tenor.com/view/youre-your-gif-22328611

[bronze summit]

imagine thinking you are winning after all this

[wet storm]

You're gonna get lightning bolted

[worthy ivy]

shhh don't spoil it 🙂

[dusky grove]

if your response is too bad to be in the server because it violates the rules, then at least say which rule would be violated that would result in your punishment

[hasty grail]

quick who else uses "jajajaja" instead of "hahaha"

[exotic forge]

I can read. I read that you joined the server today. I read that you came in with wild statements about Thor and his SKG stance

[golden latch]

We give them enough line kinda deal

[cursive solar]

im so out of the loop of this that i dont know who disagrees with who

[brisk sparrow]

Hit em with a calm response and they break eventually usually.

[dusky grove]

latin america, from my knowledge of memes

[elder scaffold]

The spanish and brazilians

[jovial sandal]

https://tenor.com/view/kung-pow-kung-fu-trained-wrong-wimp-lo-gif-27152837

[golden latch]

Most spanish influenced countries

[hasty grail]

interesting.....

[green plank]

you said "moral responsiblility" in relation to a person on the internet that wasnt interested in a political movement

that makes you sound like a serial killer

[hasty grail]

i dont know why i only attach it to people from brazil

[wary saffron]

can. you. please. answer. the. question.

WHY is thor wrong?

[elder tangle]

I'm still of the opinion that any initiative needs to be targeted to specifically, exactly, what practice is anti-consumer.

Same. Because at the end of the day we can't expect the people we're asking to solve the problem to be mind readers.

I do think the real problem stems from anti-piracy.

'Cause if companies weren't saying "piracy bad" then you'd already have everything in place necessary to preserve games without changing anything at all on what game developers do outside of anti-piracy

[exotic forge]

How did you find this server and what made you join?

[jolly prism]

So another warrior that cannot even sign the initiative?

[wet storm]

Lusophones don't go jajaja

[golden latch]

J=h sound so jajaja is hahaha

[dusky grove]

Think of spanish and portuguese's use of J as a replacement of H and it makes sense

[wet storm]

The J sound in Portuguese is jay

[worthy ivy]

goblin behaviours and troll behaviours are very similar
it's just goblins know how to behave in public

[outer cobalt]

While intended to help consumers, the Right to Repair legislation has been criticized for being limited in scope, initially applying only to certain appliances and requiring manufacturers to provide parts only to professional repairers rather than consumers themselves

[golden latch]

Do they go jayjayjay?

[jolly sky]

If you're not willing to answer a question that is very simple to answer, and find it unable to be polite in your answer, then nothing you say means a blind bit of difference here

[nova bough]

piracy and wanting endless profit

[wet storm]

No joke they go kkkkkkk

[elder tangle]

Yeah the endless profit bit doesn't help

[golden latch]

Amazing

10/10

[flint yarrow]

I prefer the japanese WWWWWWW

[hasty grail]

anyways, sorry for getting people off track

[cursive solar]

that must be a newish thing, im portuguese, i have seen other portuguese people use it but as far as my family goes at least they dont

[indigo wadi]

You don't HAVE to be here. No one is forcing you.

[wet storm]

I had a brazilian co-worker and we had to do a sensitivity talk to go "Hey buddy you can't just say kkk in general chat"

[golden latch]

When chats goes of the rails is the best

[green plank]

im morally obligated by god to bully you, i have to do it now i have no choice :/

[jolly sky]

People have been disagreeing with thors perspective here for months dude, because disagreeing with Thor is allowed.

Be polite. State your case.

Now I ask again, Why do you think Thor is wrong?

[hasty grail]

WHY is he wrong, still waiting

[exotic forge]

How did you find the server and what made you join?

[dusky grove]

should I make a ticket now? It's clear he's not actually going to explain his position.

[golden latch]

Do you want to be happy?

[hazy storm]

Guys hes just baiting

[hasty grail]

go for it

[golden latch]

Do you believe you deserve to be happy?

[hasty grail]

im sure its easier to get milk out of a rock

[elder tangle]

So... we should all put them on ignore?

[wet storm]

Wow

[exotic forge]

Bubu but we should be nice to new members!

[wet storm]

trvth nvke

[jolly sky]

Yea, this is just clear, absolutely failed ragebait

[golden latch]

Deep stuff i know

[jolly prism]

If asking you a simple question is "mocking you" then it might be a bit of a self report.

[jolly sky]

Like I've never seen rage bait fail so hard

[wary saffron]

i might just have to

[flint yarrow]

they're gonna be back on another account once engagement goes down or they get banned again

[golden latch]

Its a hard question

[indigo wadi]

He cannot be objectively wrong about a poorly worded, initiative that can be take incorrectly. If it was specific and Thor misspoke about it, then sure, but that's not what happened. Knock off this apparent crusade you're on

[cursive solar]

us portuguese peeps and brazilian folks have a friendly battle irl sometimes like fake portuguese etc, obviously its all in good laughs

[worthy ivy]

but then we'd miss all the unhinged things people say before they get nuked - where's the fun in that?

[prime crest]

Seems like you very much want to be here to get that attention dosage

[cursive solar]

and online too of course

[green plank]

ok here is a follow question, is thor not allowed to be wrong?

[wet storm]

Obviously Brazilian portuguese is superior

[indigo wadi]

I see who the trolls are via the emojis lol\

[wet storm]

Categorically

[idle hill]

No, because then the trolls wouldn't be happy

[cursive solar]

nawwww

[jolly sky]

He's very much on a dopamine crashout and looking for a fix

[exotic forge]

I've been stating you joined the server on July 1, 2025 and I was asking why you joined the server

[green plank]

every other braindead stupid youtuber and streamer is allowed to have a bad take but people dont let thor?

[jolly prism]

Was the friend a CEO?

[cursive solar]

portuguese is portuguese, how dare you /s

[idle hill]

He HAS to be wrong so the trolls can laugh at us for supporting him or sharing similar opinions

[golden latch]

Oh a friend?

[indigo wadi]

So which media outlet did you read it on?

[worthy ivy]

you can't rage bait a goblin

[outer cobalt]

Is Thor wrong in this case?

[prime crest]

I would say lack of real hobbies or good habits. Same thing.

[wet storm]

Are you asking why people don't let Thor have a braindead bad take?

[green plank]

i dont think thor is wrong, but is he not allowed to be???

[wet storm]

That's a weird line if inquiry

[wind hare]

For some reason, people freak out when someone they look up to gets something wrong. So I think some of these people were fans, and now their lives have been overturned. So they rage about it because they can't cope with someone having a different opinion then them that they looked up to.

[outer cobalt]

Everyone is allowed to be. But he hasnt been talking about the topic for a long time.

[wary saffron]

no he is 100% not allowed to be wrong because if he was allowed to be wrong than twitter and reddit couldn't blow everything out of proportion

[exotic forge]

Did you learn what happened from another YouTube or twitch channel?

[indigo wadi]

Cause he addressed it and moved on because he didn't want ot be farm bait over it?

[flint yarrow]

I always go schizo if my favorite talking head disagrees with me

[wet storm]

Shrimple

[jolly sky]

Of course he's allowed, and has admitted being wrong a number of occasions, and the people who say "He's never allowed to be wrong" literally just ignore that lmao

[green plank]

my point is, the people coming here are acting like thor isnt allowed to have an opinion thats different from theres

[wet storm]

YOu send people away, they improve language

It's been the case in every case

[green plank]

so wether its right or wrong isnt relevant

[wet storm]

hangs prove me wrong sign on chest

[cursive solar]

https://tenor.com/view/shrimp-its-as-shrimple-as-that-not-so-shrimple-elden-ring-elden-ring-meme-gif-26027466

[dusky grove]

I do think it's a quirk of his content. It's a mix of educational and authoritative, and emotional. He is allowed to be wrong, but for some reason the public backlash is heightened.

[hazy storm]

That's not a shrimp its a lobster

[exotic forge]

People playing dumb. Gotta love it

[indigo wadi]

Genuinely surprised the initiative is near 750k

[cursive solar]

wrong, just wrong smh smh

[idle hill]

I too kick anthills only to tell the ants they're wrong

[wet storm]

HEY

I don't play dumb

[green plank]

ig i feel like thats 99% of streamers

[cursive solar]

ive found a jackpot of gifs

[wet storm]

That's natural

[jolly sky]

Got an old meme that really isn't appropriate here for that

[green plank]

how many streamers give bad takes yall

[cursive solar]

https://tenor.com/view/youve-got-to-be-squidding-me-its-as-shrimple-as-that-shrimple-squid-gif-26786461

[wind hare]

That applies to a lot of whats going on in the world today

[dusky grove]

Another factor is the volatility of the modern internet. If this happened around... idk 2015, he'd be asked to make a correction vid but people would stop caring soon after

[idle hill]

Pewdiepie and Jacksepticeye both put out community posts in support of it on their YT pages

[jolly sky]

People have been disagreeing with thors perspective here for months dude, because disagreeing with Thor is allowed.

Be polite. State your case.

Now I ask again, Why do you think Thor is wrong?

[jolly prism]

All of mainstream (except Thor) is supporting it (if they have any opinion on the matter that is).

[elder tangle]

He's allowed to be wrong, but he's not objectively wrong on the subject.

He has experience from the developer viewpoint and can see just where this would go wrong from experience

I agree this entire movement would very likely go terribly and horribly wrong if implemented, in part because instead of furthering the movement those that are pro-movement aren't even talking about the movement anymore.

It's just talking about Thor.

Why is anyone pro for the movement even bringing Thor up if they truly want the movement itself to go through?

[golden latch]

Do you want to talk to dr.k instead about it?

[wet storm]

If you can't elaborate on your critical thunk thoughts are they really critical?

[wary saffron]

critical thinking is in my name
I could make my name LITERALLY anything, doesn't mean it's true or it relates to me in any way, shape or form

[prime crest]

Thor apparently has a billion of people secretly in love with him looking for any means of his attention.

[wet storm]

Sounds more like critical miss boss

[indigo wadi]

Just because it's in your name, doesn't mean you actually do it. I can have "always right boss" doesn't make it true

[exotic forge]

Sometimes people lack critical thinking is perhaps a nicer way to say it. It ain't like people started questioning new people out of thin air. Lots of new people come in everyday

[jolly sky]

Also, you clearly didn't even watch the Dr.K video is that is your "Critical thinking" perspective. Bait harder

[wet storm]

https://tenor.com/view/balatro-nope-wheel-northernlion-fortune-gif-1884086658338738891

[idle hill]

They are, but anything times zero is still zero, so the critical attack has no effect

[dusky grove]

Bluedragonrules isn't an actual dragon. yknow. names are nothing

[jolly prism]

Out of curiosity, is Democratic People's Republic of Korea democratic?

[wind hare]

I hate that card. 1/4 chance my ass

[jolly sky]

Not an answer. Why do you think he's wrong?

[wet storm]

Checkmate

[worthy ivy]

DISCLAIMER (for reasons of "no politics" this is not related at all to the question of why people can't let people be wrong and everyone is taking sides everywhere and devolving into tribalism all over the world)

these are just random words that have no meaning at all - honest

MK-Ultra -> MK-Monarch -> MK-whatever-the-hell-they're-calling-it-now

[indigo wadi]

I am currently playing a video game, yes

[flint sinew]

[dusky grove]

Just so you know, dismissing our retorts and questions isn't critical thinking, it's willful ignorance

[indigo wadi]

lololol

[elder tangle]

He's not objectively wrong though.

There's more than enough instances throughout history that would demonstrate just how terrible of an idea the SKG movement is, in its current form.

It goes against everything that good (successful!) UX design would do.

[green plank]

i feel like this is the biggest throw under the bus rug pull in youtube history

[golden latch]

Hi ya like the show?

[brisk sparrow]

Hi starr

[wet storm]

1 in four months more like

[brisk sparrow]

How ya doin

[wary saffron]

hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii starr

you havin fun?

[green plank]

and i think its cause 99% of the big youtubers have never seen thors stuff

[flat moat]

Putting critical thinking in your username must be the new xXx_InsertNameHere_xXx because it honestly just screams cringe

[green plank]

and the movement has a name you cant disagree wwith cause vibes

[cursive solar]

https://tenor.com/view/shrimple-sponge-its-as-shrimple-as-that-gif-27169116

[worthy ivy]

they're not?
sadgeness and dissappointment

[hazy storm]

Its the new ladiesmanxxx344

[cursive solar]

im ngl, typing shrimple in gifs is the best thing i have ever done

[golden latch]

Hey name calling is a no go

[wary saffron]

wait really?

[flint sinew]

if yall are going to talk about skg, either keep it cordial or don't discuss it at all

[kindred sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/plastic-man-real-real-powder-powder-that-makes-you-say-real-animated-comic-plastic-man-gif-7493651428267836743

[indigo wadi]

i have dragon emojis in my name, therefore i am dragon

[flint sinew]

we're not going through this again and again

[idle hill]

NUH UH, xX_DoomBot_Xx is a GREAT gamertag, don't you DARE slander it!

[exotic forge]

Can you please answer people's questions. I understand you think Thor is wrong but if you're here to argue in good faith then you should engage in questions being posed to you

[hasty grail]

hey, hows it going

[dusky grove]

if discord usernames have the ability to shift reality, should I rename myself to "richest man in the world"

[jolly prism]

You are wrong

[thick ledge]

You know what's way cooler than trying to force the government to preserve games? Documenting games yourself like someone who does something

https://youtu.be/P-2a494h0Uw?si=ONROchQsC_eZGZhO

[green plank]

so it ends up being, "huh? skg whats that? oh games and stuff, yea ill support that, oh some guy named thor doesnt like games and is being mean to ppl, damn what a dick"

[thick ledge]

Based channel

[wary saffron]

FR, same with xX_getShrekedNerd_Xx

[dusky grove]

AMEN BROTHER

[worthy ivy]

it honestly just screams "someone said something mean to me earlier about critical thinking but because I have none I thought it would be a good idea to put critical thinking in my sock puppet display name"

[flat moat]

Not name calling at all, I'm just saying it's cringe much like the xxx_insertnamehere_xxx of old

[golden latch]

I say this all the time thank you i just like dragons that are blue 🙏😭

[worthy ivy]

obvious is obvious no?

[brisk sparrow]

I would nodders react this but I don’t have nitro

[stone prairie]

Is someone really claiming someone else is objectively wrong and then not providing the receipts? Which would make them objectively wrong instead?

[brisk sparrow]

Yes

[idle hill]

I gotchu

[wet storm]

Good idea

[golden latch]

Discord why do you forsaken me and not ping the reply

[radiant escarp]

honestly what confuses me most is how the hate storm got this bad, is it holdover from the stupid WoW drama? literally no one was talking about him and his opinions on SKG 10 months ago.

[wary saffron]

yeh I'm kinda waiting for the factual evidence to back it... but oh well

[worthy ivy]

although I am impressed by the sock-discipline - is pretty good

10/10 for effort

[jolly sky]

Yep, to every single reply asking why he things that someone is wrong.

The fella just refuses to answer and is trying desperately to ragebait

[thick ledge]

Oh no, oh no go abck

[green plank]

🫠

[elder tangle]

Pretty much.

Problem is those people probably have never seen what happens when you take a problem, don't properly think it through, implement red tape law around it..... and absolutely nothing changes because the law didn't address the real cause of the issue, but everything becomes far more expensive because of the red tape

[indigo wadi]

yup

[jolly prism]

Got the hit in just in time!

[brisk sparrow]

In part. Buts it’s been non-stop it feels like since then.

[flat moat]

https://tenor.com/view/poltergeist-will-sampson-indigenous-leaf-gif-22996067

[exotic forge]

Is someone really thinking that this new person joined out of curiosity and to discuss this in good faith based on the dozens of messages back and forth that we've seen? I have a piece rock to sell to you

[astral crypt]

Kendo 👀 behave

[hazy storm]

My brother in D&D have you heard the name Belephaion

[worthy ivy]

damnnit - nuked before they gave themselves away
thanks for letting me play mods 🙂

[indigo wadi]

didn't they sell bath water?

[elder tangle]

Oooh! Is the rock named Terra? 😄 👀

[thick ledge]

I blocked 2 more channels today making videos just shitting on thor and not talking about skg today

[wet storm]

You're right it needs to be edgier

[jolly sky]

Oh they're gone lol

https://tenor.com/view/jim-carrey-ace-ventura-take-care-slammed-the-door-bye-gif-8571412

[thick ledge]

Really get to clean the scum off my feed

[exotic forge]

That's a big rock...

[golden latch]

This username is well before i ever learned of dnd funny enough its just my favorite color and favorite mythical creature

[brisk sparrow]

Took em long enough tbh.

[elder tangle]

Just a tad....

[wet storm]

Blue dragons are dorks tho

[green plank]

i was trying to type, any large youtuber, that is putting a small post/video out, in the last 30 days of the movement, can literally suck my wiener 🤩

[brisk sparrow]

Figured they would’ve left sooner

[golden latch]

This is just one of many iterations of it

[jolly sky]

You're wrong for thinking that

[hazy storm]

You and i will be good friends then

[green plank]

my original message wouldnt go through.

[golden latch]

😡

[thick ledge]

If people actually genuinely cared they'd make a video about skg and not a thumbnail of Thor stretched into the eye bleed wojak

[winter sierra]

My username is me

I am cereal

[hazy storm]

Lovable lethal dorks

[wet storm]

It's like "OOoh I'm a green dragon but blue and live in the desert"

[prime crest]

You won't fool me, piece of bread

[winter sierra]

[indigo wadi]

but you're toast

[hazy storm]

They may have IM not sure

[wet storm]

You know a cool dragon?

White

[idle hill]

for real, it just screams "Support SKG because Thor sucks and his opinion is wrong 😠 "

[brisk sparrow]

Oh god he actually did it.

[elder scaffold]

They are just farming the drama at this point

[wet storm]

No fuss no muss

[worthy ivy]

but cereal

[wet storm]

Just a big flying bear

[indigo wadi]

no one talks about rust dragons

[thick ledge]

They were always farming the drama

[outer cobalt]

Ironically DRM might also be one of the reasons why even single player games have to be online

[wet storm]

It's just that some dragons are more dragon than others

[jolly sky]

oh, thats a no no word. fair

[golden latch]

Dont bring back the cult again 🙏 i beg

[thick ledge]

Including Ross' video about how the initiative doing poorly is all thors fault, drama farming for engagement

[jolly sky]

I'd like to think that everyone that hasn't been unreasonable and has actually engaged with us in mature discussions are still here, and just chillin' now, but just have the occasional question

[hazy storm]

Gold dragons are the least dragon of dragons

[thick ledge]

A gross, wretched tactic

[wet storm]

Them's is fighting words

[indigo wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/goldmember-austin-power-love-gold-gif-7399681

they're the most, cause gold

[winter sierra]

Gold dragons are sick

[wet storm]

LOL

[dusky grove]

maybe the real dragons were the friends we made along the way

[golden latch]

Sorry to hear that do they need some chicken soup?

[flint sinew]

watch the profanity, we see everything

[wet storm]

I sorta agree tho gold dragons are dorks too

They boring

[hazy storm]

Dragonlances at 10 paces?

[prime crest]

People fuel the controversy, and maybe it is even meant as an advertisement for the iniciative, but it is completely unjustified, yet somehow thousands of youtube creators all take part in it and it's becoming a bigger controversy than all of the Paul brothers stuff

[winter sierra]

Always

[jolly sky]

I can see that angle. Online just made SecuRom easier to implement

[hasty grail]

Starr, i hope your day is going well

[golden latch]

Heckong chonkers

[dusky grove]

can you tell me where I left my phone? I lost it

[wet storm]

Cool dragons are silvers and reds

'cos they're insuferable

So you kill them at take their hoards

[jolly prism]

Heck you

[flint sinew]

over there

[quick plaza]

How is it unjustified?

[flint sinew]

[wet storm]

I run away better at 20

[indigo wadi]

don't make me type it again 😛

[winter sierra]

Red dragons are big and kinda cool but i like silver

[wet storm]

https://tenor.com/view/jojo-run-away-joseph-joestar-jojos-bizarre-adventures-gif-15566885

[flint sinew]

will remove you

[indigo wadi]

lol

[dusky grove]

Ah the joestar special

[prime crest]

I mean how is directing hate onto a person ever justified?

[thick ledge]

Attacking someone character for having a different opinion than you is always unjustified lol

[jolly sky]

I think they meant that the fueling of the controversy through the means it has done, is unjustified.

[quick plaza]

I agree, did Thor not do that?

[wet storm]

Mods be like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpigjnKl7nI

[idle hill]

I don't know anything about DND dragons but check out this cool dragon I made last year based on a Betta fish

[worthy ivy]

if they are a masochist and have specifically requested you source them some hate?

[kindred sedge]

I can agree with Red Dragons in D&D, red dragons in wow however....

[dusky grove]

And he apologized

[worthy ivy]

'part from that can't think of any

[odd lagoon]

Unrelated: Hate isn't really healthy but there's plenty of people who earned their bad vibes fr

[dusky grove]

Wether the apology was enough is up to ross

[golden latch]

What a sweet fairy dragon

[dusky grove]

not the crowd

[indigo wadi]

do not speak ill of mommy alexstrasza

[gloomy forge]

holy moly thats so cute nice drawing.

[flat moat]

https://tenor.com/view/umm-confused-blinking-okay-white-guy-blinking-gif-7513882

[thick ledge]

He apologized a week ago and said he may have been frustrated but it didn't justify insults. Where is everyone else's apology?

[jovial sandal]

uncalled for

[wet storm]

Red dragons in WoW are just gold dragons from D&D

[flat moat]

Bro what

[green plank]

im not a content creator i dont care about public image (:

[kindred sedge]

I HAVE RISEN HER CHILD IN UNDEATH, FOREVER BOUND NOW THEY ARE TO ME AS MY WINGED MOUNT!

[golden latch]

Wait is that you lord of the burning legion?

[worthy ivy]

oi! long haired beardy here, no need to get personal 🙂

[idle hill]

Based on Monster Hunter's naming it'd be a Piscine Wyvern

[gloomy forge]

Its like a palm sized dragon thinking hes a big boi awwwww

[flat moat]

https://tenor.com/view/jaraxxus-gif-15584579

[thick ledge]

@flint sinew

[wet storm]

https://tenor.com/view/giant-anteater-anteater-snoot-snooty-dont-get-snooty-about-it-gif-8582055347210045727

[indigo wadi]

sindragosa?

[dusky grove]

Pooly wyvern????

[umbral vault]

[kindred sedge]

Uhhhhhhh, what ever the name of the dragon was that DK's got as a Class order hall mount

[golden latch]

Please no name calling mods will bop you for bad mouthing rn

[thick ledge]

You should care about server rules

[flint sinew]

not sure why you think this is necessary to do

[jolly sky]

He had one emotional outburst about something he is passionate in. (which he recently apologised directly to Ross about)

Then he made 2 clear, concise, and calm videos about an opinion, and then left it alone for 10 months.

While still being harassed, doxxed, sent death threats, and IRL stalked

[flat moat]

You were so good up until now

[idle hill]

Nobody tell them

[thick ledge]

ThE server doesnt allow insults

[green plank]

https://tenor.com/view/bocchi-the-rock-bocchi-bocchi-dance-anime-dance-anime-cute-dance-gif-8640564821222907754

[golden latch]

Is that pikachu?

[kindred sedge]

Kyranastraza

[indigo wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/is-this-a-pigeon-butterfly-gif-16186537

[idle hill]

Due to copyright concerns, no

[prime crest]

There never was any real controversy against SKG. Thor said once on one stream that he would actively work against it, but as far as i know he did nothing, besides sharing his opinion. The 2 videos he posted weren't remotely offensive towards SKG.

What we are taking about is the attack against Thor.

[golden latch]

Bottom right

[golden latch]

[thick ledge]

Thor had one very angry and frustrated segment on stream about skg because people were harassing him for not support it and he lashed out

He has since apologizex

[flint sinew]

we've made it clear to keep conversation cordial. you can have an opinion on whatever topic, for/against/etc, but going after an individual whether you like them or not is not the way. this is a warning going forward

[thick ledge]

Apologized*

[jolly sky]

This, it was literally days of people @'ing him in the Stream, in Discord, and also through TTS's

[golden latch]

Also cool picture

[spice tulip]

After doing my own research and looking at every side I could, watching everything I can on the project and even past stuff. I can't help but have a negative opinion about pirate software, he's never taken accountability and doesn't seem to care. I'll thank him for making the movement of stop killing games bigger. but I don't think he's in the right and I would've liked him to say something about it. He said a lot of nasty things about the movement and I've never heard him own up to it only double down.

[outer cobalt]

Tbrh i think people just want a “we did it gamers” moment where they say eff you to game publishers and game publishers lobby the EU to make it harder for indie games to publish games. Everyone is happy :)

[wet storm]

It's so easy to argue without being a nerd bros

[prime crest]

Ironically some of the SKG supporters worked against their own iniciative by posting this out of context and spreading it

[indigo wadi]

too bad it won't happen and this initiative will eventually fail

[hollow warren]

Bro thinks he owns the place

[outer cobalt]

doing my own research

Okay so what do you think is problematic

[spice tulip]

Peace and chicken grease good luck games Stop killing games 🙂

If you wanna talk more about it reach out in dms

[outer cobalt]

Maybe it will. Maybe more publishers will just ban the EU, leaving only Ubisoft to provide games in a big fat middle finger to EU gamers

[gloomy forge]

"work against it" = "arguing against putting the burden on the devs" which is what Thor explains himself as well. Once the back and forth argument has ended and people figured out alternatives that doesn't shaft devs developing (remember all of this could result in added crunchtime) Thor would've been behind the movement 100% if all the potential questions would see resolution.

[flint sinew]

most cats do "own the place"

[hollow warren]

tru

[indigo wadi]

that would be unfortunate

[idle hill]

Petition to ban cats

This is MY space

[jolly prism]

Doubt that

[kindred sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/irrelevant-rust-playrust-egoism-who-are-you-gif-15088356

[outer cobalt]

Thats probably what Ubisoft and folk are preparing for if it does pass

[prime crest]

At this point any words from him will just be used against him to fuel the controversy, so i really doubt he will say anything. Even Ross said he absolutely understand that.

Btw have your opinion. Nothing wrong with that.

[jolly sky]

1. He literally apologised for speaking bad about Ross about 5 days ago.

2. Taken accountability for what?

3. "He said a lot of nasty things about the movement" Well informed opinions is not "saying nasty things"

[outer cobalt]

Reading the history of EU anti consumer laws does not bring joy

[worthy ivy]

what makes him accountable to you? or anyone for that matter?
a man's mind is his own, he need not justify his thoughts or opinions to anyone

this "accountability" shit is the main reason the internet sucks so hard right now

be accountable to me because you think a different thing and I will have my pound of flesh

[indigo wadi]

it would still need to be discussed, the initiative passing doesn't mean it's law

[thick ledge]

Is "doing my own research and looking at every side" you watching youtubers drama farm thor

[jolly prism]

As far as these big entities go, EU is the most consumer friendly.

[prime crest]

and it will almost definitely not apply retroactively

[hushed vine]

I only slept for five hours and we’re still talking about this holy shit

[indigo wadi]

laws never have

[fluid dome]

As a cat, I agree

[dusky grove]

we stopped for a while, joe

[hushed vine]

really?

[dusky grove]

but it starts back up again and again

[golden latch]

This is the song that never ends it go on and on my friend

[outer cobalt]

You know what? Thats simply not true at all

[flint sinew]

this is the channel for it for a reason

[golden latch]

They talked mtg for about an hour

[hushed vine]

true

[dusky grove]

imma go, have fun yall

[indigo wadi]

some people, started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll sing it forever just because this is the song that doesn't end...

[golden latch]

👋

[fluid dome]

Okay so Jack made a video about it

[thick ledge]

I wish people would stop saying they did thier own research, like you did? What experiments did you run? And first account documents?

[jolly prism]

You will need to provide more than that. EU is definitely more consumer friendly than, let's, USA.

[jolly sky]

Oh, Bluepixel said their nonsense and left. It reads like a copypaste

[worthy ivy]

trolls gonna troll and goblins gonna goblin...
but there's been some productive discussion in between
can't move hearts and minds with the ignore button 🙂

[gloomy forge]

the EU, especially some countries in europe do trend to have rules for rules and for rules.

[indigo wadi]

no one ever talks about the gremlins are gonna gremlin

[serene valley]

It is, it's the same tired points that we could just have a canned response to because it's just a canned post anyway

[worthy ivy]

we don't talk about them

[serene valley]

I've seen similar posts like 3 times

[worthy ivy]

shhh

[golden latch]

Gremlins just make messes

[outer cobalt]

Well the USA offers fair use laws that allows games like these to be modded and distributed

[serene valley]

Hitting the same exact key talking points but rewritten slightly

[thick ledge]

Incorrect

[outer cobalt]

Ubisoft games for EU consumers however cannot mod and distribute the game or disable DRM

[thick ledge]

You can't distribute someone else's code

[outer cobalt]

You can distribute mods

[thick ledge]

Mods distribution is fine, but the user has to provide thier own base

[serene valley]

Unless the license says you can

[indigo wadi]

but they're still copyright protected. You cannot monetize em

[serene valley]

But usually games aren't licensed that way

[thick ledge]

You just said they con distribute it if they mod it, they cant

[outer cobalt]

Fair use allows copyrighted assets to be used as long as its not monetised

[thick ledge]

They can only distribute the mod to be stitched to someone else's product

[outer cobalt]

Its how AI is more advanced in the USA than EU

the EU has archaic copyright laws that are anti consumer

[gloomy forge]

I mean its cool that laws are waterproof but SKG will change the whole paradigm on how things are handled, perhaps even go against working laws (if games should still ship out fast while becoming more costly since if devs bear the burden they have to R&D all on their own). Theres gonna be hundreds of questions that may take Days or Weeks to solve each before theres concise proposals.

[golden latch]

Yeah you cant distribute full mod hacks of games only patches they have to add themselves

[serene valley]

Nah that's just cuz the AI companies steal the copyrighted content

[indigo wadi]

hahaha, nah, there's no AI protections

[outer cobalt]

They dont, recently a lawsuit meta won was precisely on this

[worthy ivy]

no politico: US just completely deregulated AI at a federal level for the next 10 years

[outer cobalt]

Training AI is fair use

[flint sinew]

[worthy ivy]

is going to get interesting

[jolly sky]

With something as complex as IP and Copyright, it's going to be months, if it even ever sees the light of day

[indigo wadi]

that has not fully passed yet

[thick ledge]

Sitting in the bathroom cleaning my nails and such

[serene valley]

Then selling the AI shouldn't be

[thick ledge]

Sitting in the bathroom cleaning my nails and such

[outer cobalt]

Because meta also open sourced the model

[frosty spear]

to play the devil's advocate they did manage to get quite a few signatures in a week and pewdiepie did also endorse the movement recently

[worthy ivy]

cough cough palantir cough cough not saying anything because politics rules 🙂

[gloomy forge]

@outer cobalt thats not entirely true. the EU is mostly pro consumer in parts, especially when it comes to labeling certain things. the part about archaic copyright law is 100% true though.

[thick ledge]

Acorn is upset she isn't included

[static copper]

Stealing for profit = fair use sure buddy

[outer cobalt]

Meta open sourced and open weighted their models

[indigo wadi]

Yeah, im surprised the momentum is still going.

[outer cobalt]

Meta open source and open weighted their model

[worthy ivy]

but... might buy me some Palantir stock, they're going to go fulll stonks methinks

[jolly prism]

Until it isn't, because the current laws did not count with AI. There are already lawsuits regarding AI training on data that is not theirs.

[outer cobalt]

The only thing i can think of is usb c

[hasty grail]

https://youtu.be/FhL69wM8CuU

[outer cobalt]

Recent meta lawsuit. At least there is a provision

[hasty grail]

because of the spaceballs talk last week

[thick ledge]

Honestly so confused by youtube ads recently

[hasty grail]

@opaque raven

[outer cobalt]

But games made by ubisoft in the EU cannot enjoy the same privileges thus there is the problem with modding the crew without online servers

[thick ledge]

It's all ED meds and solar panels

[earnest mirage]

some have. First thing that come to my mind are trafficators. Because the old ones like on a vw bug have a constant light which is against a law that was released after they were build, state cars need to have indicators that blink at about 1.5Hz.
So what a lot of workshops have done is puting a relais on it and make them flap xD

[golden latch]

Nice bathroom now we know what you bathroom an basement looks like 😈 /j

[thick ledge]

Exclusively

[outer cobalt]

Otherwise folks would just use a mod

[indigo wadi]

oh intresting

[thick ledge]

Like wtf does googles profile of me say

[outer cobalt]

So ironically the reason why SKG exists is because of the EU

[indigo wadi]

umm...it's "existed" before, but has failed

[thick ledge]

If I was an indie dev

[outer cobalt]

I dont get what you mean tbrh

[gloomy forge]

Its gonna be months for just one question but theres hundreds of them to be answered. Like once the law actually is enacted during a specific time, are the frameworks that actually ensure long-term (eternal) compatiblity working as intended? Who is working on these things and all. I'm sure there will be answers but if people seriously think the gamedevs themselves must be doing this then...

[thick ledge]

I would simply not sell my game in the EU

I can do that pretty easily on steam

[indigo wadi]

it was attempted in the US, failed, attempted in the UK, failed

[golden latch]

It thinks you are an old rural man

[outer cobalt]

Its way too complicated to sell to the US

[outer cobalt]

You mean SKG?

[indigo wadi]

yes

[frosty spear]

it kinda tracks with other movements when they start to use the common enemy approach and people using skg as a smoke screen to bringing in their issues with Thor. But it can still fail, or it can succeed and at the end discover a lot of the signatures were done by poll trolls

[outer cobalt]

Yeah i mean, they dont need that there, so people dont care

[jolly prism]

One of the reasons was that licesing games was not so clear cut in EU as it is in USA.

[indigo wadi]

erm...what?

[golden latch]

Lots of devs have weighed in this exact point and people were hand waving it.

[outer cobalt]

As mentioned you can mod games in the USA without caring too much about copyright

[indigo wadi]

you don't think US needs game preservation or the UK? LOL

[indigo wadi]

that's not what SKG is attempting to address

[outer cobalt]

Game preservation is IMO led by the USA

[thick ledge]

It just creates separate markets for the EU and the rest of the English speaking world

[gloomy forge]

@indigo wadi the UK uses similar argumentation how Germany would do (the UK also has a consumer-central that argues in favor of consumers), Germany would at least significantly partialy reject it as well.

We will see, I'm curious how this plays out.

[jolly prism]

https://tenor.com/view/cease-and-desist-cease-and-desist-nintendo-gif-15207116321003134810

[indigo wadi]

no, it isn't. Not in the way SKG is trying to do

[golden latch]

Market carve outs is quite normal

[indigo wadi]

SKG wants to force devs/publishers to have an end of life plan. No such thing is in place that forces this currently, ANYWHERE

[outer cobalt]

Web archive exists, and they are pushing for preservation of ALL assets

Including games

[outer cobalt]

Ofc not! It should be a COMMUNITY effort

and it can be if the laws allow

[indigo wadi]

That is not the same as forcing devs/publishers to have an end of life plan, which is what SKG aims.Do you even understand your own initiative?

[outer cobalt]

Which the EU doesnt

Ironically

[outer cobalt]

Do i look like i care about SKG?

[thick ledge]

Are you implying that current EU law prohibits game preservation?

[gloomy forge]

@thick ledge Yeah people seem to forget that one of the largest video game markets isn't the EU or the US, but asia. theres gonna be a lot of problems with console compatibility too. The question that if software should last forever, hardware should be as well. What if in 80 years of now, theres new types of hardware? There has to be companies working on ensuring long-term compatibility.

[thick ledge]

Lol

[indigo wadi]

Yes?! LOL

[outer cobalt]

Yes.

[thick ledge]

How??

[outer cobalt]

Various laws around copyright and DRM

[keen wave]

You’re right, and I fully agree with you, the negative impact that Jason (Thor) has had on the initiative is very real and he’s never taken accountability of that.

[indigo wadi]

if you don't care about SKG, why are you arguing in favour of it?

[outer cobalt]

Sigh, read again please

[thick ledge]

Can you site the laws that allegedly block game preservation?

[indigo wadi]

nearly 750k, yeah, real negative impact 🙄

[jolly sky]

He hasn't at any point in the conversations here just to clarify

[indigo wadi]

Most of your responses have been in favour of SKG

so if you aren't in favour of it, your answers show the opposite

[outer cobalt]

Read. again.

[sharp sundial]

what is it with every creator actually thinking thor had any effect on SKG

[jolly prism]

At least try to not be so obvious 💀

[indigo wadi]

read what again? Type your responses that align with what you actually think

[outer cobalt]

DRM for example has publishers implement always online DRM

[sharp sundial]

jackscepticeye just posted a video attacking him too, everyone just mimics what ross said

[thick ledge]

How is that EU law requiring drm?

[outer cobalt]

This blocks using games after its EOL

[indigo wadi]

gdi jack....

[thick ledge]

Explain

[sharp sundial]

it's like a script they were sent, word for word.

[outer cobalt]

Which eu law are you referring to?

[thick ledge]

That has nothing to do with EU law

[outer cobalt]

Laws dont work independently lmao

Laws work together

[keen wave]

This whole situation honestly makes me want to become a lawyer. It’s just so abusive… People deserve to keep the games they paid forr, it’s basic fairness, you know?

[keen wave]

excuse me ?

[thick ledge]

YOU ARE THE ONE WHO SAID EU LAW PROHIBITS GAME PRESERVATION LMAO

[outer cobalt]

you cant just look at one part of the law and say “look this is undefined”

[outer cobalt]

DRM is EU law?

[thick ledge]

No it's not???

Do you know what a law is

[jolly sky]

SKG wants a lot of things, and there's a lot of things that we as a community can agree on, including Thor.

But the Initiative failed to account for the vast amount of currently existing laws, and the complexity of game development, from a AAA perspective, all the way down to the indie developer.

[thick ledge]

The lack of a law is not law

Lmfao

[dusky grove]

i leave for 10 minutes, another new face trying to pin the blame of everything on thor?

[jolly sky]

Yuuuuup

[sharp sundial]

it's also other things like requiring 7 countries to reach a threshold

[outer cobalt]

DRM is a system protected by EU law, to be pedantic.

[indigo wadi]

umm, where's the video of Jack supporting SKG? He made a post, never mentioend Thor

[thick ledge]

Then show me the law that explicitly condones always online drm

[sharp sundial]

yup sean/jack did and it was like he was reading the same script sent to every major youtuber

[gloomy dome]

no he didnt?

[fluid dome]

Always funny when random bleach drinkers come in here all like

"WeLl JaSoN (tHoR) hAs DoNe iRrEpArAbLe DaMaGe To ThE iNiTiAtIve"

And I'm like dude, why are you addressing him like he's your best mate? Get bent

[tribal canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/bread-nft-gif-24295414

[outer cobalt]

Information Society Directive (2001/29/EC)
The European directive on the copyright in the information society provides for some provisions against circumvention of Digital Rights Management technologies. Circumventing a technological measure or making and trafficking in circumvention tools are now prohibited activities in the European Union

[sharp sundial]

its on his second channel

[indigo wadi]

where is it? there is no video on his channel

[golden latch]

Link?

[fluid dome]

He made it on his second channel

[sharp sundial]

second channel

seconnnnnnnnnnd channnnellllll

lol

[dusky grove]

it was 2 videos and a short, 10 MONTHS AGO.

If you couldn't recover from 2 vids and a short for 10 whole months then I don't even know what to say

[jolly prism]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_5WIzkM0r8

[keen wave]

So let’s just keep the gaming industry predatory and keep destroying games that people already paid for..
How can that possibly sound fair to you?

[golden latch]

Danke

[outer cobalt]

trying to circumvent copyrights via modding away DRM in EOL games can be viewed as illegal activity

[sharp sundial]

based

thank you i didn't want to go and find the channel

lol

[indigo wadi]

this might have me lose respect for Sean here

[thick ledge]

Then don't circumvent copyright, that has nothing to do with drm

Lmao

[jolly prism]

Np, I was looking for the video after the first message, so still had it open.

[fluid dome]

Idrc tbh

Like

[golden latch]

Who said this is the only way to help fix the industry?

[thick ledge]

I can't engage with this

[fluid dome]

Thor has said his piece

[jolly sky]

No, but you know what also isn't fair?

Legally enforcing Game Developers, big and small to give up the IP and copyright to their games (You know, the games they made and not you)

[thick ledge]

Just the total lack of understanding

[fluid dome]

Why are we still circlejerking 10 month old talking points

[rose echo]

Personally, I'm against the current SKG initiative, and I say that as a very artistic person, with some just below surface level knowledge of tech stuff. I'm not just sharing my opinion on whether I'm for or against it, but rather I wish to expand upon what I reckon.
I think the SKG initiative as it currently is can not and should not move forward, but most people signing and sharing it aren't interacting with the reality of the legal or technical world and simply go with what they perceive to be the spirit of SKG - the wish of games being treated better and more consumer-friendly and so on. And while there are certainly lots of ways that can be fought for, as has already been stated here abundantly, what SKG is actually asking for will not lead to what people hope it would. It fails to go for that perceived spirit, and many people will be very disappointed when they realize that.
However, there's a silver lining to it. Regardless of Ross and the current SKG initiative's misgivings, people are interacting with the idea of game preservation and supporting it, even misguidedly, which can later turn into something genuine and useful for a proper push in the right direction. I'm not sure if it'd be better for the current initiative to fail, for something else to take its place, or if some other way things could go would be better, but that's where my hopes are at.

[sharp sundial]

they need a boogieman to try and scare people in to signing

[outer cobalt]

Under the provisions of said law you cannot circumvent or help others circumvent DRM

[keen wave]

never said is the only way, but if is not now, when will be ? ... how many years still suffering this abuse...

[outer cobalt]

so, modding to remove DRM is illegal

[frosty spear]

yeah, but who know with these people

[wind hare]

This movement might be the first but it will not be the last. This isn't the last Jedi, there will be more fights to be had about it even if this fails. No need to be overdramatic

[outer cobalt]

so, EOL games cannot be preserved.

[gloomy forge]

I say this often SKG as a grassroots movement that finances itself and works in favor of protecting consumers from predatory practices while arguing for video game preservation would go so far if it garners support.

[dusky grove]

nobody is saying that. We're saying as it is right now, it is too vague to make us comfortable. If it was more specific, like say saving the single player campaign of a multiplayer game for example, then it would have been better

[jolly sky]

That persons typing patterns looks very familiar

[outer cobalt]

So ironically EU laws passed recently regarding DRM is one reason games in the EU cannot be preserved

[rose echo]

Almost as if the account was made on the same day as the previous 4.

[outer cobalt]

while in the USA mods for pokemon and other old games exist

[wind hare]

Maybe we can employ an AI to sniff out repeat accounts? lol

[gloomy dome]

watching it rn

[keen wave]

just let the people keep their games..
game paid = game is not destroyed

[outer cobalt]

So ironically in this case it seems the USA has better consumer protections than the EU

[golden latch]

Maybe working with devs rather then lambasting them and trying to force regulations would be helpful since you know indie devs quite literally are just other people who you can talk to and voice your concerns with and you can literally shape the market from the ground upz

[indigo wadi]

I will say, Sean does know more than most of the other CCers on game dev stuff

[rose echo]

don't ping me without reading, kthx

[jolly prism]

Not all games have DRM and, for example, disabling DRM and the end of life would be a workaround

[dusky grove]

tell me if its just drama farming or if it actually makes points

[thick ledge]

Jesus

I'm not going to engage with this

[sharp sundial]

it's literally just a script repeat word for word, it's weird how all of the channels are saying the same thing word for word; you know they didn't actually watch what thor said

or what he's posted afterwards

[jolly sky]

Neither you nor anyone has rights to the individual IP or copyright to any piece of art. Be it games, Music, or movie.

[outer cobalt]

This is left entirely to the owners under the current law

[thick ledge]

It just semes like he believes all the drama tubers -shrug-

[indigo wadi]

Looks like Sean just barely touches on Thor (3 minutes in)

[nova bough]

lol sus

[thick ledge]

He says thor is bring egotistical and wrong

[jolly prism]

Right now yes, but it would be a "solution" to the problem that the DRM would somehow block the SKG.

[golden latch]

Also are you saying you want skg cause its just the fastest way to get this change? Not the correct way?

[outer cobalt]

In fact it’s specifically meant to be decided by the owners of the DRM system

[thick ledge]

So it's pretty much what every other youtuber says

[wind hare]

What is the Jack video mentioning Thor as well?

[outer cobalt]

Its not because it contradicts another law which affects more than just games

[thick ledge]

Yep

[dusky grove]

the hogwarts legacy bit, oh they don't know do they...

[sharp sundial]

on his second channel spedicey

[wind hare]

This is crazy

[gloomy dome]

tldr so far he juse said thor made "a bad video and spread misinformation but did apolgise" soo

[thick ledge]

He says thor killed the movement and didn't apologize for being wrong

[jolly prism]

Mandating that games at the end of life remove DRM is not the same as removing DRM protections alltogether.

[serene valley]

I would definitely be Sus at Thor if he did say after the fact it was all an act and actually he did this to boost it

[thick ledge]

Fu ked up that this is a youtuber thor really looks up to

[gloomy forge]

With donations and stuff, maybe even make a big homepage done by professionals that work like a mueum. Contact devs from all over the world to put their old games on them (a lot of them are up for that, especially on older machines). And also get some gamers who would like to work as politicians. You could have a team of talented developers developing frameworks that wrap or emulate a MMO server that could be expanded on. A civil initiative is simply just asking "can you look into this?" and nothing else. a Grassroots movement get things done.

We live in a place of apathy where nobody wants to actually work for their rights. They just call some dude who doesn't even play video games.

[thick ledge]

Really a shame

[golden latch]

Ah yes killed 200k+ 🙃

[indigo wadi]

especially since Sean played Heartbound

[gloomy forge]

A grassroots movement caused GOG, the closest thing we have to SKG, to happen btw.

[wind hare]

I'm starting to figure out that if it gets them views, they don't care.

[keen wave]

Devs should approach game development with preservation in mind from day one. It’s honestly a shame that this still isn’t standard practice in the industry.
No more excuses. I hope EU put order, because is a mess

[nova bough]

more people saying its an 'absolute win' is.... a take. they dont see how it could be interpreted in a way that harms the industry which ... you know thats their take and they can have it.

[golden latch]

As soon as he was the “villain”

[dusky grove]

opposing opinions aren't misinformation... when will these people learn

[outer cobalt]

The current law allows the owners of the DRM system to decide. They are unlikely to make a specific provision just for games

[rose echo]

It is very unfortunate, but admittedly, I have good friends, who are smart and wise, who get baited by the dramatubers, just due to the sheer overwhelming volume of support on one end of the swing, thinking surely there are good reasons for that, without investing the time to verify.

[flint sinew]

[sharp sundial]

i'd be completely defeated if i had so many major people i looked up to lying about me and spreading slander and misinformation

[toxic rampart]

Then stop buying until it passes or w/e

[jolly prism]

I can go with unlikely.

[outer cobalt]

aka whoever implements the DRM system has the final choice to decide whether they want to remove it or not

[earnest mirage]

yeah, totally thors fault that everyone of them stopped talking about it for the last 10 months xD

[golden latch]

Im literally telling you to help make that happen without the initiative succeeding or not

[wind hare]

Never blame yourself, always blame someone else

[keen wave]

all games are into the "license" stuff, is predatory and gross at this point honestly

[outer cobalt]

What about free to play games

[jolly sky]

You know whats also a mess?

The understanding how of Game development works from many SKG supporters

[earnest mirage]

was it the first or second rule of homer simpson? xD

[toxic rampart]

You keep using that word. I don't think you know what it means.
Also don't ping me.

[keen wave]

imagine the car broke and the mechanic ask me to fix it...

[dusky grove]

No other artform expects their art to last forever, why should devs do this for games.

Paint fades, buildings collapse, statues break, music gets lost or instruments destroyed and thus gets unreplicable.

Preservation movements for these artforms exist, but they are done BY THE CONSUMER, not the creator. SKG is trying to cross the line into the creation process.

[jolly sky]

So are CD's, So are DVD's. The license existing means that you are able to buy the games you enjoy in the first place

[warm trench]

@Thor XCom'd

[outer cobalt]

So if i launch a f2p itch io game that is considered live service because i can adjust events, now i have to release my game for free?

[gloomy forge]

I recently cleaned my carpet as well and now it looks nice and tidy like yours is looking

[indigo wadi]

Do remember that Sean has been involved in game development. So he does know a bit more than most others

[golden latch]

are you okay? Im telling you to act like the mechanic is a person and that you are talking to them to work out a deal on how to best find a solution to your concerns

[outer cobalt]

Ironically because of EU DRM, thats how they even got to become licenses in the first place

[jolly prism]

It would not have to last forever - even if you read just the ECI wording.

[outer cobalt]

[sharp sundial]

maybe, maybe not. we don't know how he was involved he may have just been funding it

[keen wave]

explain me what means "license existing" does not fix the issue, so irrelevant

[earnest mirage]

hope you don't have any books. You own the paper or digital copy but not the text in it 🙂

[indigo wadi]

he's done voice acting that i know of.

[serene valley]

I'm pretty sure in the US you also have to license out games, regardless of DRM being applied

[indigo wadi]

and he is the type to get into the weeds

[fluid dome]

Idk why but some emoji aren't displaying correctly for me

[wind hare]

He also shills clothing with Mark but I wouldn't call them fashion designers or seamstresses

[serene valley]

Also, afaik DRM is just a tool to enforce a license

[sharp sundial]

that just requires him to record something from his youtube setup. that's nothing regarding game dev on the dev side of things

[indigo wadi]

They do make the designs of their clothing brand

[jolly sky]

The license exists so that someone can sell you a book, a CD, a DVD, or a Game, without you being able to say "I own this story, this Music, This movie, these game files"

[outer cobalt]

In the US EOL games can be modded and preserved because they dont have DRM

[honest sage]

No

[marsh dove]

They probably already are at least internally. Version control systems and debug servers isn’t exactly a new concept

[keen wave]

a book is not a service, is a good, the moment I pay for the book is MINE, but that has nothing to say to IP/copyright

[indigo wadi]

reminder that FAQ is not included in the submission of the initiative

[wind hare]

They approve concepts from actual professionals.

[outer cobalt]

So yes? Did you read the reply

[jolly sky]

Yes it does. And refusing to acknowledge that is one of the many problems with SKG.

[outer cobalt]

F2p games that have a little micro transactions will follow

[sharp sundial]

they actually had some sort of falling out that they refuse to talk about

[earnest mirage]

when you buy digital books, which has became the standard for most literature, you do buy a service ^^
Edit: at least usually when you buy stuff like on amazon

[indigo wadi]

who has?

[sharp sundial]

jack/mark

[gloomy dome]

i mean hes not technicly wrong thor did say some wrong/misinformation, he makes some good points in the video and while he could word some things better i agree with most of what he said and again he did say "i apolgise if im misinformed"

[indigo wadi]

what? when?

[warm trench]

SKG isn't about saving games. Its the believe system around spending money and ownership and not understanding or full on rejecting the concept of license.

[gloomy dome]

just now and jack

[keen wave]

It’s okay guys, all gamers will be thrilled when the initiative gets approved.
We’re pushing it as much as we can. No more room for lazy devs ignoring preservation, the industry needs to evolve and fast.

[nova bough]

an opinion isnt misinformation

[sharp sundial]

people came out with some info back in may 2024 i think?

[indigo wadi]

and that's on the initaitive for being too vague

[gloomy dome]

jack seems to think its about saving games

[jolly prism]

This is not a cat gif, who are you

[outer cobalt]

The petition clashes with DRM protection laws lmao

[jolly sky]

Instead of grand standing, how about you participate in conversation

[keen wave]

I start to believe you do not read me...

[outer cobalt]

and alot of other laws i would imagine

[worthy ivy]

opinion cannot - definitionally - be misinformation

you do you know that opinion and information don't overlap much on the venn diagram of the universe don't you?

[outer cobalt]

DRM is just the most straightforward

[fluid dome]

They haven't. They just don't interact much bc of their projects and businesses

[grand sequoia]

does anyone know if thor has followed up on SKG after he said "they want to do [blank] and i think thats bad" while the words "We are NOT going to do [blank]" were on the screen?

[honest sage]

Which ones?

[golden latch]

Did you read me?

[indigo wadi]

That's what I figured.

[dusk pine]

people probably think it's about saving games because of the inflammatory title 'stop killing games'

[gloomy dome]

you have to keep in mind jack is adhd and also that hes always been on the side of gamers and making games more acessable i totaly undersand where hes comeing from

[sharp sundial]

@indigo wadi i'll DM you more info i don't want to spam here with off topic stuff, if that's ok

[indigo wadi]

huh?

[nova bough]

sorry! here's my correct contribution

[dusk pine]

and the initiative is too vague to clarify that

[indigo wadi]

Sean has Autism.

[serene valley]

I'm sorry but I can't believe that games in the US have no DRM on them... how do they prevent piracy then????

[gloomy forge]

What if the company go bankrupt or developers don't work in the industry anymore? Or what if a operating system releases where certain games don't run on? I'm interested in what laws are proposed that answers these questions. A "one size fits all" seems weird to think about considering we're considering eternity so no game you own ever breaks. Especially because developers in the US have different worth ethics and principles compared to a developer from the SEA regions.

[gloomy dome]

however he did call thor "egotistical" so he dosent like him ig

[indigo wadi]

not interested in drama/misinformation

[jovial sandal]

every person coming to the petition creates their own interpretation of what defines a "functional and playable state", and they sign it on the thought that their specific interpretation is the one that will be put forward

[gloomy dome]

yeh yk what i was saying

[warm trench]

I really don't care who or what jack said ?!?

[earnest mirage]

what i was wondering, is a game defined in law terms?

[sharp sundial]

oh okay, you just asked about it so I was going to provide more info, sorry.

[keen wave]

telling all gamers we know to sign it, we have to do this. Otherwise, we’re the ones getting screwed in the end.

[indigo wadi]

Okay so...Jack doesn't really say much of anything. He doesn't dive into much of the specifics. Feels like a nothing burger of a video

[fluid dome]

Gamers are getting screwed with or without preservation laws buddy

[gloomy dome]

he basicly says "i like the idea"