streamchat

[gloomy dome]

as a fellow green enutistist fair

[worthy ivy]

do they count as "dies" for Al Bhed Salvagers?

[gloomy dome]

ye

[worthy ivy]

when they die - or no?

[nova bough]

broken and mtg are the same thing, friend

[gloomy dome]

yes

its the same as blood artist

it only cares about creatres that die

[nova bough]

if everything is broken nothing is broken

[worthy ivy]

anyone remember broken/unglued?

[gloomy dome]

tokens still hit the gy then disapear

[wind hare]

My fav card I never get to use

[gloomy dome]

staying power

[worthy ivy]

got a bunch of them and they are hillarious

[gloomy dome]

thats funny

[hazy storm]

Is that the one with the card you ripped up and tossed all over the play area and anything it touches is destroyed

[gloomy dome]

most are some are obserdly op

[opaque raven]

I mean, I only have one deck (red/blue), it's in Portuguese and it's insanely old, like 10+ years old
But I love it

[nova bough]

ok, time for my daily errand to touch grass

[worthy ivy]

it was a "expansion" way back - think it's the cards that were pulled from various expansions before release because they were obvs broken iirc?

mtg goblins would know more - but some of them are... questionable shall we say

don't think they're legal for tourney play

[gloomy dome]

like this is the prime example of why the silver border should NEVER be alowed in comander lol

[worthy ivy]

ooof

that real?

[gloomy dome]

yes

[worthy ivy]

cos that's cursed

[gloomy dome]

exactly

[hasty grail]

within MTG there are "unhinged" or "unglued" sets aka the "un-" sets

[hasty grail]

they are jokes, not legal, and very funny

[opaque raven]

Is it possible to know how old a card is based on just the image?

[hasty grail]

ye

[wind hare]

Did you hear the story about the guy who used a card that said, "flip this card on the battlefield and every card it touches is removed from the game." and they ripped the card up and threw all the pieces on the coard\

board

[hasty grail]

if you know this or able to cross reference which this is then you can determine which set its part of

[gloomy dome]

as a example of the bs you can do if you cast this and then you just cant loose with staying in play lol

[urban venture]

everyone say hi to Steve

[golden latch]

And “border” design

[hasty grail]

otherwise towards the bottom of the card there is copywrite info

[gloomy dome]

so about that

[golden latch]

Thats to commemorate that event

[worthy ivy]

think handcuffs is one of my faves tho

[gloomy dome]

yep

is my favorate dumb unset card

[urban venture]

I have this lol

I think I have two copies

[gloomy dome]

(and yes its legal in black border)

[worldly shoal]

if i dont like furries may i get banned ? how is here ?

[gloomy dome]

?????

[urban venture]

bait used to be believable

[worthy ivy]

and who can forget Bronze Calendar?

[hazy storm]

Yeah that's the one

[gloomy dome]

i rember the video with this lol

[hasty grail]

https://draftsim.com/mtg-set-symbols/
this is a good article that talks about set symbols

also its updated for June

[golden latch]

No idea have you been here before?

[gloomy dome]

the orignal is chaos orb but the chaos confetti was made because the story was popular

[worldly shoal]

no, why? but i saw all the drama and stuff about the games being destroyed

[hazy storm]

Still hilarious 2 decade's later

[hasty grail]

slightly more complicated than that

[worthy ivy]

think I got one of these too

[urban venture]

put the cards on your head.

[golden latch]

Oh thats cool would you like to discuss it?

[gloomy dome]

theres some wacky ss nonsense you can do with this

[worldly shoal]

im busy, give me 5 mins please

[golden latch]

👍

[opaque raven]

They are old, veeery old
But it's all I have and I love them

[jolly prism]

https://tenor.com/view/try-me-bitch-try-me-sassy-gif-6232209

Mods looking at this chat right now:

[urban venture]

my collection is pretty scattered, but I got a bunch

[opaque raven]

Some are in English, others in Portugues and French, it's a huge mix

[jolly sky]

I love that clip lmao

[gloomy dome]

normaly form of the aproch combos involve using this to make yourself a card name lol

yes i think i will become grizzlebrand

[fluid dome]

Fellas, I'm trying to tie melee weapon types to elements for a project I'm planning.

What would you associate with fire, ice, lightning and shadow magic?

[gloomy dome]

(i have a running gag with this card where i name "timmy the power gammer")

[worldly shoal]

u there?

[urban venture]

huh, an interesting way around the legend rule

[golden latch]

Yep havent left

[urban venture]

just name the legendary something different, then copy

[worthy ivy]

very old indeed - legacy/vintage bois represent wut wut!!!

[opaque raven]

Wait, is there a doctor who series?!?!?

Gimme

[worthy ivy]

all my cards 20+ years old

[golden latch]

Yeah they had lots of crossovers

[hasty grail]

Ross is looking at things from the consumer side and Thor is looking at things from a dev's perspective
they are both right in their own way, but this is still a convo that does involve copywrite and talk of intellectual property which the base petition doesnt mention well

[unborn lark]

[worldly shoal]

I don't want to discuss something I know is right 100%, like games should not be destroyed considering people pay for them 🫡

[gloomy dome]

fire: something big and powerful like a hammer? ice:spears, lighting id say throwing wepons or daggers, and shadow staffs or something like a chakra

[gloomy dome]

comander small set yeh

[hasty grail]

people want games preservation, but how this petition goes about doing so is weird and thus an issue

[golden latch]

Okay

[opaque raven]

Gimme more Doctor Who!!!!

[gloomy dome]

as well as a secret lare

[golden latch]

Hell yeah

[gloomy dome]

they have all 15 drs as of now

(2 of them are in a 100£ secret lare)

(no thats not a joke)

[opaque raven]

Ew

[urban venture]

if you know it's right 100% then why did you come in here?

also no you don't. you assume you do, but if you're this locked in without listening then I don't think that'll change. being unmovable in your opinion does not make your opinion concrete and true.

[gloomy dome]

proxys ftw

[cursive solar]

kinda off topic but i absolutely lost it watching this lmao, didnt know what to expect https://youtube.com/shorts/aa8bc0PsyYc?si=sC1Yjuk7Bb4r_nsO

[opaque raven]

And....now I remember why I can't get hyped with card games....it's a very expensive hobby

[cursive solar]

ignore the brain rot video

[urban venture]

yeah...

[gloomy dome]

meh i spend at most like 400£

on a deck

[urban venture]

I'm tempted to get a box of Edge of Eternity but aaaaaa pricy

[unborn lark]

My group will only do precons for that reason

[cursive solar]

wait a minute, i havent scrolled up but is someone talking about mtg

oh wait

[gloomy dome]

i play old reserve list stuff too

[cursive solar]

yall are 👀

[urban venture]

hell yeah we are

[worldly shoal]

yea and with all the good vibe, no hate, I will never be a friend of someone that agrees to destroy games

[gloomy dome]

yes

[opaque raven]

How much would you say you expend per year?

[cursive solar]

ultra based

[urban venture]

he isn't agreeing to destroy games, idk where you're getting that from lol

[median hornet]

Luckily, no one is agreeing to destroy games

[gloomy dome]

tough to say, sometimes i dont bother making decks

[worldly shoal]

is not an opinion, is a fact that destroy games is wrong, people pay for it you know

[unborn lark]

https://tenor.com/view/john-cena-reach-reaching-wwe-raw-gif-11762136988640550463

[gloomy dome]

and i have a bad hibit of making obscure weird decks

[worthy ivy]

yarp - I bought a bunch at retail in the 90s, early 2000s - never bought singles, just decks, boosters, tournament packs etc - haven't worked it out to the penny but ballpark guessing I'm maybe 500% up on what they're worth now as singles vs what I paid

[opaque raven]

There is a comic and board game store close to where I live that they play every weekend a lot of things, I was thinking of going there and take a look

[worthy ivy]

singles is for peeps who /need/ that card for the perfect deck

[urban venture]

no one is arguing for the destruction of games. you are grossly misunderstanding this entire ordeal and I can tell you're not coming at this from a point of respect for the discussion, considering your current discord name and about me section.

[median hornet]

Technically no, per EULA they pay for a license to use the game so long as it is online.

[urban venture]

please, if you want to be taken seriously, drop the jester getup.

[worldly shoal]

i meant anyone, like can be any person, someone, not any specific person mentioned, where u took that from?

[cursive solar]

i made a lathril deck completely myself and it came out great but i regret it cause of how much work it took (a new mtg player)

[opaque raven]

But they are hyper competitive, they even play Warhammer board game competitively, like on a national level iirc

[cursive solar]

ive now started buying precons and upgrading them instead

[gloomy dome]

like this is in one of my decks

[cursive solar]

got the tidus deck and its a fantastic deck so far (final fantasy 10 precon)

[urban venture]

no you didn't. I point to your name and profile. you're very interested in saying this about pirate specifically so don't try to pretend otherwise

[gloomy dome]

fair

[golden latch]

Well good thing you are in a group if individuals that agree on that atleast

[worldly shoal]

respect? what? excuse me... what is happening with your statement is not in good faith,
can i say what i think? i am being always respectful

[hasty grail]

alright back up

[unborn lark]

🤣

[hasty grail]

we might have gotten off on the wrong foot

[worthy ivy]

• is always respectful

[urban venture]

yeah idk. respectful? again. your name and profile says it all

YEAH CONES, LOL

[hasty grail]

also a lot of us here have been arguing with people who just want to get banned

[urban venture]

anyway, let me tell you about Grist the Hunger Tide

[hasty grail]

sooo we are on edge about people

[wind hare]

So do people get IP bans or just account? I know you can get around an IP ban but it might help us lol,

[gloomy dome]

oh no not him

[urban venture]

bugs, bugs, bugs!

[gloomy dome]

grist is scary

[hasty grail]

its an IP ban

[cursive solar]

oooh, black green? 👀

[hasty grail]

when i was banned due to some miscommuncation i could not access the discord at all

[worldly shoal]

are u judging me and discriminating me because my name and profile? excuse me ?

[hasty grail]

even with creating a brand new account

[opaque raven]

I absolutely love those little texts that come on the bottom (they have I name I just can't remember now)

[gloomy dome]

random silly fact he is the only pw without text that says he can play as a comander who can be your comander

[urban venture]

the passive's wording makes it so this can be a commander

[median hornet]

Me with Proton VPN™ (not sponsored)

[urban venture]

I love it for that reason

[worthy ivy]

yes I am judging you based on your display name

[gloomy dome]

flavor text

[urban venture]

I never get a good string of milling insect after insect to have Grist truly pop off, but fun anyways

[gloomy dome]

its neet

[median hornet]

Yes lol

[worldly shoal]

ok, keep for yourself, no need to hate me for that

[golden latch]

Do you judge me based on what i post?

[worthy ivy]

no hate

[gloomy dome]

its also kinda pushed doe

[worthy ivy]

just making a judgement

[worldly shoal]

your profile picture is not a good defense my friend..

[urban venture]

the powers of observation are truly something to behold

[worthy ivy]

my namme

my face

wtf are you on about kid

[cursive solar]

https://tenor.com/view/judgment-yakuza-yagami-judgment-yakuza-meme-gif-4482672580312201369

sorry, someone mentioned judgment

[gloomy dome]

something something scute swarm

[median hornet]

No no no, that mustache is the ultimate defense

[worldly shoal]

my name is an amazing name, if u have a problem is telling me something about you, not me

[worthy ivy]

come back to me with that shit when you've got your face as your pfp

[worldly shoal]

cringe lol

[proud coral]

"JUDGEMENT"

[opaque raven]

I have some card that sooort of connect to make a story, is this still a thing?

[urban venture]

well, scute is 1 card so it doesn't really benefit more from Grist's +1, but of course... it is scute swarm

[gloomy dome]

yes but recently less

[median hornet]

Game recognize game, and friend you don’t ball.

[cursive solar]

https://tenor.com/view/potato-tomato-brooklyn99-gif-10539258

[golden latch]

What is your name?

[urban venture]

https://tenor.com/view/waltwhite-breakingbad-say-my-name-gif-7259290

[golden latch]

Sorry my version of discord is very old and nicknames dont work

[gloomy dome]

green +insect so

[median hornet]

Me irl

[urban venture]

yeah I get that. any insect will do, it just has to be a string of insects at the top of your library.

there are cards that can let you bring things back from the GY to the top of your library, idk if any are in green or black

been a while since I had Grist built

[opaque raven]

Is Blue still annoying as hell and frown upon? I vaguely remember this being a thing

[golden latch]

😨

[gloomy dome]

im jsut here with sebastian from black butler a show i dont even like like haha this is fine

[urban venture]

best golgari deck I ever had was Nethroi. YES, technically abzan, but his mutate cost had a hybrid selesyna cost in there, so I just ignored the white and made it green black

[gloomy dome]

they keep printing more and more stacks/counters so yesnt

[idle hill]

Display Name: "Kids, being an arrogant liar is bad"
Bio: "Kids, remember not to get manipulated by any pirate"
The server you're in: "Pirate Software"
Bro is unaware of the location or situation they have put themselves in

[unborn lark]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-thats-bait-tom-hardy-mad-max-gif-5055384

[urban venture]

him rn

[worthy ivy]

Blue is kickass and if you cast 'disagree' I will counterspell you into dust

[golden latch]

Fascinating cause their display for me is sqlinjection_nmap_1433_open

[idle hill]

That's their discord tag

[golden latch]

When thats the linux dev stuff?

[idle hill]

[opaque raven]

Half my deck is blue and looking at it now it's just basically "ye, you are not gonna play this, and that, or that"

[idle hill]

their status, I believe

[golden latch]

Always tried to figure out whats wrong with this version oh well 🤷‍♂️

[astral crypt]

Y'all don't need to take the bait offered to you 👀

Just FYI

[flint yarrow]

But is yummy

[worthy ivy]

yes, I am the king of cringe
I spent yesterday photoshopping Thor's face onto random shit...
not sure what his point is to be honest?

[idle hill]

allo mag

[opaque raven]

Don't be fish

[unborn lark]

Am fish

[flint yarrow]

🎣

[idle hill]

[jovial sandal]

but tasty, tasty bait

[vivid maple]

was not wanting to see pewdiepie supporting skg

[median hornet]

He simply can’t fathom the craft

[gloomy dome]

speaking of stax heres a stax that is imp true evil incarnate

[golden latch]

But 🎣

[astral crypt]

I know. I'm a sucker for bait tbh

[gloomy dome]

(it says if 2 creatures are in play every creature etbs and is exiled)

[golden latch]

Been trolling from bites all day

[worthy ivy]

indeed - cringe is an artform that takes years of practice
can't just wade in being all rude and obvious about it 🙂

[worthy ivy]

if EVE taught me anything beyond how to spot a scam it was to never not take the bait

[gloomy dome]

https://tenor.com/view/fish-gas-station-you-know-what-that-means-gif-1113666392679473186

fish

[opaque raven]

What can reach a creature that is set aside btw?

[worthy ivy]

miss EVE, but after the fall of 9UY just wasn't the same

NRDS till I die!

[gloomy dome]

(eratted to say exile)

[worthy ivy]

Provi-Bears represent wut wut!

[idle hill]

I've got essential oils all over my hands from making that bugproof spray smh

[golden latch]

Only a few cards can interact with exile

[idle hill]

smells like lemon

[gloomy dome]

and portcutus is ike a portable hole type card it exiles under itself those are gone until it blows up

or leavee

"but theres so mutch removal" you say, i cut it from deadpool because it was too agreegus it locked half the players out of the game

[idle hill]

both jack and pewds made posts. they arent even that old

[fluid dome]

Good afternoon!!!

[idle hill]

like 1hr or so

[vivid maple]

yall know thats just gonna be thrown out by the eu parliament

[gloomy dome]

heres what jack said fyi

[gentle mortar]

wdym, i dont get it

[idle hill]

I would hope so, it reaches into too many things that could go wrong

[vivid maple]

its very poorly worded

[opaque raven]

I assumed that "set aside" was something new between the board and the cemetery

[golden latch]

Some people dont have much faith in the government treating it well

[vivid maple]

why should i

i dont live in the eu

[golden latch]

It’s understandable, i dont agree but i get it

[gentle mortar]

i know that, i just didnt get what the person said

[opaque raven]

Thank god he was very specific and only asked for EU members to sign it

[gloomy dome]

old wording

[golden latch]

Oh the subject was the initiative so “yall know thats just gonna be thrown out by the eu parliament (the initiative)”

[opaque raven]

Exile >>>> Set Aside

imo

[golden latch]

Yeah its better explained that way

[gloomy dome]

@opaque raven if you want a funny example of what they did as a joke likely because of old "set aside" wording well

[vivid maple]

you do realize he most likely never went through the checks and balances to get that initiative written. they wont even consider it with the poor wording

[gentle mortar]

because when the debate touches on the copyright, it gets thrown out, at least that's what i heard

[azure glen]

🎣

[gloomy dome]

they have EA members in the group you think they wont throw it out anyway lols

[golden latch]

Like i said i understand. Im not criticizing

[idle hill]

Yall ever hear the saying "your rights end where someone else's begins"
well this applies here too
Developers/publishers aren't infringing on anyone's rights, they're perfectly within the law - yeah some stuff is hard to understand or obfuscated, which sucks.
However, what the consumers are asking for here may end up directly infringing on the freedoms/copyrights that developers/publishers have in the game industry
Some argue licensing games "MAY" infringe on consumer rights, but I have one question/suggestion for them - is it or is it not, show some legislation or don't mention it.

[worthy ivy]

yeah, EU aren't going to have the appetite to step on copyright law

[wind hare]

But any code someone writes for a company is owned by that company and falls into copyright

[opaque raven]

It's like YouTube when you try to fish the metadata of all videos of a channel and it separates into "playlists" and "unlisted-playlist-list"

[wind hare]

so by default you are talking about the copy right of a project

[gloomy dome]

memes

[wanton stump]

Hopefully theres enough pressure for them to do it

But who knows

[gloomy dome]

sir do you know what gdpr is

[wanton stump]

Cause copyright is the only way I can see for the initiative to actually get what it wants

[vivid maple]

dude eu parliament is run by dinosaurs

[worthy ivy]

or the copyright on internal tools, debuggers, asset packagers, proprietary formats for said asset packages, asset unpackers, rendering engines, netcode, going to stop listing things now because it's getting silly

[vast pilot]

Only one way to find out at this point lol

[worthy ivy]

it's not just "the game"

anyone who insists otherwise is either shilling or gravely misinformed

"but MuH GAmES"

[jolly sky]

EU goes;

"Yea, you didn't really think about this too hard did you?"

And then more Thor slander gets thrown around without any basis

https://tenor.com/view/throw-heads-back-comes-the-part-laughing-smile-gif-17788811

[brisk spoke]

GDPR is about personal data. Not copyright.

[vivid maple]

and now its a 700k signatures

[gentle mortar]

exactly, it's complicated and people who support don't realize, where all the copyright lies, unique to every videogame, not just author's copyright.

[opaque raven]

Btw, "dinosaur" is a derogatory term that those Silurians don't really appreciate

Be polite to reptilians please

[idle hill]

"I want to own my games" then SAY SO, instead of using vague wording like "leave games in a functional playable state"

[worthy ivy]

yes, GDPR is a perfect example of how EU legislation placed a regulatory burden on businesses that the big players could shoulder, but small business couldn't and had to shut down

[gloomy dome]

yehhh

no

[gloomy dome]

exactly what i mean

[wanton stump]

Yeah I would prefer that approach personally

[worthy ivy]

I know people who closed up because they didn't have the resource to put in place the systems to comply

personally

it's what bothers me about the "nothing bad can happen if we stop killing games" stance - it's just not true

[gloomy dome]

100% this servay will if it eben reaches the eu parlement get thrown out

they dont care

even if they did they have people in there that work for ea

[wanton stump]

Yeah thats a ridiculously uninformed perspective

[gloomy dome]

you know "suprise mechanics" ea

[wanton stump]

Theres always ways for it to go wrong

[wanton stump]

Considering the amount of support it has I dont think they can throw it out right away

[gloomy dome]

you think they care?

[wanton stump]

If they do throw it out its gonna be after 2 years of deliberation

[gloomy dome]

they dont care if 10k people suport it they dont care if 2 mill people suport it

[wanton stump]

Oh not at all, but I know burocracy is their bread and butter

So even if they want to throw it out right away, they still will play the game and then throw it out anyway

[vivid maple]

https://vxtwitter.com/ShitpostRock/status/1939861513558503545 jesus christ

Rock solid (@ShitpostRock)

https://t.co/OYjGNrRDA0

▶ Play video

vxTwitter / fixvx · Jul 1, 2025, 1:40 AM

[gloomy dome]

dose it make them money? no if anything it threatens to make them a loss

[idle hill]

Gotta use wording like "maintain ownership of singleplayer or offline content after initial purchase in the event of a videogame being removed from marketplaces or online servers being discontinued"

[opaque raven]

Anonymous online signatures are completely meaningless until verified

[worthy ivy]

at some point in the process it will become apparent there is a conflict with the entire corpus of international copyright law and the EU will just nope out - they don't want to mess with that, it's what keeps the wheels turning for all the big players in literally every industry

[gloomy dome]

remeber that they dont give a single f unless it hurts there bottom lign

[wanton stump]

You dont understand the commitment of EU politicians to maintaining the appearance of civil debate and liberalism

They love it

[worthy ivy]

<notsureifseriousmeme></notsureifseriousmeme>

[brisk spoke]

Yes. It's about data collection. What data companies can collect about you, how they can use it, that they have to keep it safe and that you have the "right to be forgotten".

[opaque raven]

Ok ok, this one got me, lol
Finally the quality is rising, I waited so long for this

[gloomy dome]

i garentee that since this isnt as public as other things they throw it out and say nothing

[shy mist]

Seems like you guys are very confident on it being thrown out. Then sign to help it go to that stage so you can laugh about it when they do

[idle hill]

If I could, I wouldn't, because I don't support it.

[worthy ivy]

nah, we do that Hubris'll get us

[wanton stump]

Even if they already know they are gonna throw it out, it will get dragged out for quite a while so the burocratic machine can do its thing and all the consultants and failsons they employ can get their wages for doing investigations and meta analises

[idle hill]

Why would I sign something I don't support

[worthy ivy]

do not the hubris

[gloomy dome]

primarly yes however to say its not about copyright isnt 100% acurate gdpr is a protection for data so it deals with things like agreeing to cookies and so on

[brisk spoke]

cookies != copyright, so I'm really not sure what you're on about

[gloomy dome]

it has a breif section on what you can do to copyright stuff and even mentions copyright laws

[wanton stump]

Im not confident about anything, this is all pure speculation at this stage

[gloomy dome]

i yapping

[gentle mortar]

Remember Telltale? When company bankrupted/dissolved, almost every videogame was not for sale, because of copyright. It took YEARS to resolve so it could go back to the store. Can you imagine now, that EVERY game need to stay in store? That's a calling for a disaster.

[jolly sky]

#streamchat message

You may have missed out on this little nugget of information

[opaque raven]

Aren't you gonna first ask if people are from EU before asking them to sign? Hmm

[worldly shoal]

pewdiepie is a nice guy, confirmed 💯

[gloomy dome]

uhhh well how to put this

[wanton stump]

Just commit identity fraud and sign it anyway

What could go wrong?

[worldly shoal]

i am, I signed a moment ago

[gloomy dome]

tehcnicly i couldnt sign it

even tough british

[idle hill]

Brb stealing some brit's skin

[gloomy dome]

lol brexit moment

[wanton stump]

Brit's aint in the EU dumbass

[gloomy dome]

i know im a brit

[wanton stump]

Get with the program

[median hornet]

Be nice :(

[idle hill]

Stealing some polish dude's skin

[worthy ivy]

unrelated, they just want that tasty tasty skin

[gloomy dome]

weirdage

[wanton stump]

Thats much better

[opaque raven]

Freaky

[idle hill]

What's better is if they used the right wording for the focus of SKG 💯

[wanton stump]

Yeah but we didnt write it so

[brisk spoke]

fwiw, me saying this is not defending the whole SKG thing, but (and I'm saying this as a small business owner in the EU that actually has to comply with GDPR because we're handling personal data on multiple levels) the GDPR actually is a good thing. And it's honestly not as bad people make it out to be.

[idle hill]

Yeah some american dude that married someone in the EU did, right?

[wanton stump]

If I had I would have added a lot more swears and threats to the lives of prominent politicians

But thats just me

Different taste in petitions I guess

[idle hill]

imagine marrying someone in another country so you can make the rules in said country am i right /s

[wanton stump]

I dont think thats a problem to be honest

Ross obviously cares about this, I dont think its a hollow gesture

[idle hill]

dont get me wrong I do wanna be able to play my games when online services shut down too
this just ain't it

[wanton stump]

Yeah and you have a right to think that

[nova bough]

cat

[vivid maple]

https://x.com/LockPickingLwyr/status/1939712073056874654 on another note

LockPickingLawyer (@LockPickingLwyr)

Sorry, but when you send a lock with a built-in tracking device to my PO Box, I have no choice but to discard it.

X · Jun 30, 2025, 3:46 PM

[worthy ivy]

yeah, but there were edge cases - there are always edge cases
I suspect (just a gut feeling) that there are far more edge cases here with SKG because game development is a very fractured industry - lots of licencing, lots of SDKs, lots of time-limited assets... and we expect EU policy wonks to get it right?
maybe I'm just too cynical? but I kind of agree with Thor in that you probably don't want government involved in anything you care about

[opaque raven]

Jumpy cat

[wind hare]

Im curious, what game can you think of that you can't play that was a single player game with online only?

[worldly shoal]

please let people run the servers locally/community and play even if they have to use hamachi...

[jolly sky]

I think overall its a good thing too, but you can't really deny the small businesses that couldn't keep up and afford putting that legislation into practice, and had to close as a result.

That basically the minefield that SKG is willingly walking into with Solo/Indie devs with what it wants.

So by "Stop Killing Games" actually ends up killing games. Curious

[wanton stump]

Oh yeah I cant think of like 20 edge cases just off the top of my head

And if this is ever gonna go forward it will have to deal with that

[jolly sky]

Which cannot be done for a lot of games as they don't run off one singular server.

Now what

[worthy ivy]

might be a dev thing - edge cases are part and parcel of development - not part and parcel of legislation (which aims to be as one-size-fits-all as possible)

[idle hill]

Minecraft would be one of those I had issues with
Couldnt launch the game because I was offline, couldnt connect to microsoft servers to verify my account is actually mine

[wanton stump]

Simply compress the servers into a single 1 cubic meter volume cube

Problem solved

[worldly shoal]

We need smart, forward thinking developers who design new games with preservation in mind from the very beginning.
Long term access shouldn't be an afterthought, it should be part of responsible game development.

[opaque raven]

Cat

[wanton stump]

But thats hard

I dont wanna do that

[worthy ivy]

hell, we write error handlers to catch edge cases in advance

[jolly sky]

"Design the impossible"

Wow.

[worldly shoal]

ok, but is not fair expect people to lose their games they paid...

[wind hare]

But an FYI, there is a singleplayer mode for that. I think the amount of single player only games people think this will cover is actually really small

[worthy ivy]

lawmakers don't catch edge cases in advance, have to have court cases and set precedent for the edge cases and that's a shitshow

[wanton stump]

In our current system? Absolutely it is. You dont own any of the games you have bought, you have a license that can be revoked at any point

[idle hill]

When you open a singleplayer world you are opening a server to run the world. If that server fails, the world crashes.

[wanton stump]

Nothing in the marketing or license agreements of any game specify a lifetime license to access a game

[worldly shoal]

I see a problem there "license"

[wanton stump]

Is it a massive problem with how we sell and make games? Absolutely

[worthy ivy]

all software is "licensed"

[hasty grail]

be warned there is a megathread on the gaming subreddit for SKG

[worthy ivy]

even minesweeper

[wanton stump]

But as our system works right now, this is it

[vivid maple]

NO DOOBY NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[wanton stump]

You dont own anything

[worthy ivy]

now be happy 🙂

[idle hill]

It's licensed to you so you don't do something dumb like modify your client to get an unfair advantage in the game, or use it to collect data/harm someone else

It also protects developer/publisher copyrights by not giving you ownership of the assets

[jolly sky]

Yes. Licenses is how every single artist, movie maker, music maker, actually sells their stuff while still having the rights to their stuff.

Welcome to like, 30 years ago

[wanton stump]

All those big walls of text we all skip through when we buy something says this explicitly

None of them give you a lifetime license to anything

[opaque raven]

It's for Saba!!! (New Gura) 🐟

[wanton stump]

The license can be revoked at any time

This is in every single software product you have ever seen

[worthy ivy]

lmao - "hello... yes?.... yo, steve, the 1930s are on the phone and want their new legal ideas back"

[idle hill]

My lifetime license for Clip Studio Paint 1.0 says otherwise

[wanton stump]

My friend, you did

Everytime you click that button you do

Now I think this is entirely broken and a horrible way to sell and distribute software

But this is the system

[jolly sky]

And just because you bought a CD, doesn't mean you now own that media. All you own is the physical CD. If you lose it, break it, abuse it, that's on you. You're not expected to get another one just 'cause you bought it once

[wanton stump]

You dont accept the terms and conditions

Thats your choice

[idle hill]

You dont use the software, ez

[wanton stump]

Welcome to the modern world of tech and software

[wind hare]

You don't have to buy it. Infact boycotting something has changed how a product has worked in the past

[wanton stump]

It sucks here and everyone hates it

[idle hill]

Or learn how to make your own

[worthy ivy]

can agree with you there - the choice to accept the license isn't really a "choice" if you want to run the software

but SKG as written won't fix that

[brisk spoke]

Oh there definitely were edgecases. And I agree with you about the minefield. For the small businesses that went under that's mostly because they were WILDLY unprepared. Maybe they didn't have enough time, maybe it was mismanagement or procrastination. I wasn't part of one of those small businesses so I don't know. I only know that for me, we had enough time to prepare our whole infra and we pretty much were already privacy-focused from the ground up.

That being said, imo, the problem with SKG is pretty much that the idea behind it is good, but the execution not so much. I do want my games to be playable after they get sunset. And I do support being able to run private servers for say MMOs after they get sunset. But it has to be realistic. And there are some (definitely not all) things where I disagree with Thor, but that does not mean he doesn't have a lot of very good points and deserves to be hounded on like that. But yeah. This is the internet, people suck and are toxic, and the majority of people hounding on Thor are doing it for the clout IMNSHO. (edit: rephrased some sentences where I meant the opposite)

[shy mist]

Obviously the other choice and what he is arguing for is to campaign to create a new choice

[jolly sky]

Welcome to artists get to sell their things for you to enjoy.

[wanton stump]

Of course and Im all for that

[idle hill]

Then make a game that doesn't use a license but gives the end user ownership of the title
go on, then

[worthy ivy]

yeah, but whether they were willingly or unwillinglly underprepared - the bloke I knew didn't have spare cash for the systems upgrade he'd need and couldn't get a loan to cover it - had to close his business because breaking GDPR = jail

he wasn't blase, just poor

[opaque raven]

💛

[worthy ivy]

like most indie dev studios

[hazy storm]

Patent licenses are in both physical products and software and are a big part of how companies and inventors make money. A foundational patent is like the root of a tech tree and every innovation that uses that tech has to pay a fee

[worthy ivy]

so.... extrapolate the likely outcome from existing examples...

SKG will unironically kill games

[vast pilot]

Not that surprised they did that, they were deleting threads before so having a space to talk about it is better.

[jolly sky]

Ok then, go and argue that that because you bought Lion King on DVD, you now own the rights to sell more copies, to make your own sequel, and to say that you own it.

You will get laughed at so hard.

[opaque raven]

I mean, I hate League of Legends as much as the next person but I think this is going too far

[hasty grail]

im all for general containment, but its still very much a warning to people here that yet another chapter of hate will start

[brisk spoke]

It's a bit more nuanced than breaking GDPR=jail (iirc you get a fine first, then X amount of time to fix it after a warning, and after long legislation, maybe jail), but I understand your point.

[vast pilot]

ah ok

[nova bough]

i would love to. SKG needs to be modified. they said they wont do that.

[gloomy dome]

in other news i am the hot help

🔥 why is it 26 c send help lolo

[nova bough]

i would narrow the focus to something everything us consumers and devs can agree on is a terrible anti consumer practice. something like requirign an online login for single player games.

[opaque raven]

Same...I'm barely alive

[brisk sparrow]

The best way to start fixing it is with online singleplayer only games. SKG is being too broad in that sense. That’s why most of us here agree that the idea is good but its execution in the current form is not

[jolly sky]

As stubborn and "wrong" some people think Thor is, Ross is even more in the wrong for not willing to change, reword, or edit the Initiative to something vastly more sensible.

[brisk spoke]

29C here inside, with the airconditioner on >_>

[opaque raven]

Impossible!!!!

[hasty grail]

then theres me with 36C temp on the average

[worthy ivy]

yes, the jail bit is towards the end of the process 🙂

otherwise agent misspells client's name on the database, 30 seconds later interpol come and cart them off to the gulag

[idle hill]

After EOL, ask devs to remove or disable the requirement for verification of an online account in order to use/launch a singleplayer game

[gloomy dome]

immelting oof

[worthy ivy]

"it was just a typooooo" they scream as they are dragged off 🙂

[brisk spoke]

https://tenor.com/view/jail-right-to-jail-right-away-parks-and-recreation-parks-and-rec-gif-16177531

[jolly sky]

Yup. If SKG started off with making Log-in based Single Player only games allow for people to play the game after the Auth servers go down, that would have been a slam dunk. Easy. That would have been the actual "Easy Win" Ross wanted

[hasty grail]

sooo in the US there is a zone in the Southwest US that is "high desert" aka both altitude and being very dry, which results in some high temps during the summer

[worthy ivy]

do not pass go

[jolly sky]

Yes. Becuase you are asking for the server binaries, and code that leave that developer wildly open for IP theft.

[brisk sparrow]

And this surrounds Death Valley at -252 feet (-86 meters) below sea level

[wind hare]

Maybe, but some of those companies use that as DRM. So now they are going to find another way to make sure they have DRm that works and it might be more invasive.

[jolly sky]

And also, for the future security of later games.

[opaque raven]

Ah yes, Lost Izalith my beloved

[idle hill]

Let the MMO shut down, because it's multiplayer content and most if not all features are balanced or rely on multiplayer interaction.
The problem is being unable to access singleplayer content because of account verification failure, not keeping every game in your library regardless of genre

[brisk spoke]

IP theft, different subsystems (people think "oh it's just a server hosted in a DC somewhere, but in most cases it's actually MULTIPLE servers and subsystems talking to each other), etc.
So yeah there are private servers for certain games, but in most cases they were either built from the ground up (which is a herculean task in itself) or it's just an empty husk of a shell where you can run around in.

[brisk sparrow]

Now you get into copyright and IP stuff

[jolly sky]

Again, see this;

#streamchat message

[idle hill]

Players can make their own servers if they want to play the game online already
the devs dont have to give you the binaries to do that

Stop asking devs to do all the work

[median hornet]

It would be more nuanced, and would have to be thought about from the get go but it’s totally doable. Community servers for MMOs aren’t a new thing

[brisk sparrow]

If the devs have to do all the work it would be reduced down to 2 or 3 standard libraries at a minimum.

[jolly sky]

Which also again, not every games server is even possible to run on a customers own machine, or even if they somehow managed to own a few of them

[cursive solar]

i feel as though if this was done it would definitely be something that would have to be inacted years down the line to prepare devs who are making mmos and such to adjust

by the way, i agree

[brisk sparrow]

Also typically you don’t plan for EOL at the start of an MMO

[median hornet]

iirc that’s the jist. It’s not retroactive

[cursive solar]

true true

[jolly sky]

Sure if you want to think of something that doesn't exist

[nova bough]

then you keep some games from ever being built, thus actually killing games.

[brisk sparrow]

Not if the game is still highly popular

[opaque raven]

Imagine if there was a way to communicate to companies your unhappiness without the interference of laws and politics.
Damn, oops, I just dropped something kinda important

[jolly sky]

Which fails to account for the vast amount of currently existing laws, and the complexity of game development, from a AAA perspective, all the way down to the indie developer.

[shy mist]

If you can only release a consumer predatory game, you should not release it

[cursive solar]

you expect gamers to have self control? /s

[stone prairie]

Given that it was the shutdown of the The Crew that provoked the ECI and The Crew shutdown for both server infrastructure AND LICENSING CONSTRAINTS, the SKG doesn't really show any way to fix the actual underlying issue there of licensing. Ubisoft absolutely fethed up revoking games off people's launchers but that was probably an 'Err on the side of caution so we're not held liable for licensing beyond what we contracted' move. And its extreme takes like that which will guide other companies actions around any laws that might end up passed.

[umbral gazelle]

People will continue to consume slop then complain when the slop runs out ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[jolly sky]

Is a concert predatory for kicking me out once the concert is over?

[brisk sparrow]

Devs don’t make that choice.

[cursive solar]

no cause you know when it will be over

[nova bough]

thing is, not all of them are predatory. some games are meant to be played with a massive community, and lose their meaning outside of that.

those games literally require a server infrastruture to work properly. if you go to peer 2 peer or some other infrastructure the game just... isnt possible . And i do not believe it is predatory, as long as it is understood this is an experience; akin to watching a movie or going to a carnival

[idle hill]

Yes, they have to let me stay in the venue and sleep under the seats

[jolly sky]

Encores?

[cursive solar]

encores are a bonus?

[umbral gazelle]

Apply same logtic to a life time pass to a themepark would be more approriate instead of a concert

[nova bough]

now, i will say there are a LOT of games that are going under the banner of "live service" which have no right to be that way. like...single player games that you have to log in to.

[cursive solar]

nothing wrong with that

[cursive solar]

true

[shy mist]

We have different values on what's predatory, I think that's one thing we can take away from the conversation these days. That's fine

[cursive solar]

concert isnt a good example

[jolly sky]

Delays? Technical problems? list goes on

[cursive solar]

those you cant predict so that is not comparable

[umbral gazelle]

of cause the problem is real but SKG has nothing to do about games conservation.

[brisk spoke]

That's easier said than done. That would require game companies to build EVERYTHING from the ground up.
A few things that would make this practiaclly impossible:

• Resource cost. Because you won't be able to use existing libraries and systems, you'd have to roll your own. More devs needed for the same task, more engineers (not only devs, I'm talking system engineers, network engineers, the lot) needed to get it up and running.
• Cost of maintenance. See above.
• No guarantee that these things would scale as well for millions of players than tried & proven methods. If you've ever played FFXIV, and you heard people complaining about "lousy netcode", you know exactly what I mean.

[jolly sky]

There are many things in game design that cannot be predicted

[brisk sparrow]

Ok you can’t predict development struggles either

[jolly sky]

Like when the "End of its Life" will be

[idle hill]

You buy a lifetime pass to an amusement park.
The amusement park shuts down.
Well, you want to go to that amusement park again, but if you do, it'd be trespassing.
So what do you expect them to do?

[cursive solar]

yes but what you were comparing was a bad example, just like someone said a better example wouldve been a life time pass to a theme park

[jolly sky]

Like prime example, intentional DDOS'ing forcing the developer to abandon the game due to massive running costs, and now the game is in an "unplayable state"

[jovial sandal]

and all 6 players were very sad about it

[umbral gazelle]

What ubisoft did was give people a life time pass to the amusement park, then take down the amusement park all the life time passes go void then make the exact same amusement park on top with the number 2 on the end and sell everyone new life time passes

[cursive solar]

this would be known out the get go if it was done, a concert tells you currently when it would end, a game neccessarily wouldnt need to, which is bad

[jolly sky]

Words alone don't make the thing happen

[umbral gazelle]

except only for people have have bought them meaning if you miss out they are gone

let the FOMO rise

[jolly sky]

This cannot be predicted from "the get go" with games

That's what we're getting at here

[idle hill]

So where is the problem here
So far you have not pointed out the problem

[jovial sandal]

You had a lifetime pass to Disneyworld. They then opened Disneyland. A few years later, Disneyworld closes.

[wind hare]

I can see people, if SKG passes as worded, opening servers for an MMO or Multiplayer game and charging for the upkeep+profit. It would turn into a shitshow.

[jovial sandal]

different park, different pass

[umbral gazelle]

Shutting down an amusement park for the sole reason of voiding life time passes is morally corrupt. And a loop hole of the law. Which is why i dont buy ubisoft games anymore or EA games.

[shy mist]

Honestly my POV is we are just talking about this in this chat at this point not because we honestly think we will change each other's minds before the initiative deadline anymore. I think we all know that won't happen and we are nervous about the uncertainty of the topic for different reasons and want to cope.

This is more an emotion group share than anything else.

[nova bough]

this convo is kinda moot because all of these problems could be solved with enough nuance and wording.... but that requires all of us to trust lawmakers to do their due diligance to figure out what actually is anti-consumer and figure out a solution that doesnt harm devs (small or large company) and the consumers.

that trust is not there across the board.

[umbral gazelle]

email your local EU representative and ask them what they think about video games. it is a shit show xP

[nova bough]

thus, SKG needs to be targeted and specific with what practices are anti consumer. and exactly why its bad.

[urban venture]

https://tenor.com/view/what-wait-aaron-paul-jesse-pinkman-breaking-bad-gif-14309366

[idle hill]

They made a new game. Different lot. Different amusement park. They shut down the first one because it would not be financially viable to keep them both up, and/or bring old players to the new game.

[cursive solar]

right but a couple messages earlier, i was saying to someone (not expecting you to read every one of my messages) that devs having an end of life plan is great but id want something like this to be enacted years down the line for devs to adjust to the change, i feel like thats perfectly reasonable

[hazy storm]

Nobody does that so don't make that a point of your argument. People shut down games because it doesn't make money anymore not because they are yelling FU to costumers

[stone prairie]

I doubt anyone here is literally worried about profit. They're worried about cost passed on to them.

[cursive solar]

but people dont look at my reasonable replies sometimes

[jolly sky]

Which again, is not possible to predict or account for.

[cursive solar]

yes it is, if you plan right from the start yes it is

thats why id want devs to be given enough time, years

[stone prairie]

People want to riot over games finally going to 80 dollars for a base game... If you add in all the costs of a full EoL plan with an undetermined data and everything that goes with it, costs could easily balloon and result in us the consumer paying 150 for a game...

[cursive solar]

cause mmos in development now wouldnt be able to plan for the change

cause development would be in too deep

[urban venture]

you're generalizing this entire chat as being on the opposite side of your opinions. again, your name and profile says that out loud and every message you send in here reinforces your unmoving bias.

check yourself.

[umbral gazelle]

trolls do be trolling this time of the year

[astral crypt]

^^^

[urban venture]

indeed

[astral crypt]

y'all don't need to take the bait 👀

🎣

[nova bough]

and i want games with basically real life gambling to not exist. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[median hornet]

No one has good faith discussion anymore :/

[urban venture]

just calling the bait, bait

[umbral gazelle]

but its so tasty!

[jolly sky]

Then you will be causing Massive amounts of money that would be legally forced to be spent, and then that will just cause only the bigger companies to be able to front the cost.

Then they're going to charge you even more to recoup those costs and ensure that no indie or solo devs could ever make those games ever again

Do you see the running trend here?

[urban venture]

is it a minnow? is it a worm? it's a billboard showing their true intentions!

[cursive solar]

@urban venture people just be making the rest of us look bad, ya know?

[stone prairie]

I prefer 'You can't agrue people out of a position they got into based on feelings'. But trolls do be troll'n.

[nova bough]

https://tenor.com/view/kirby-hungry-famished-starving-eating-gif-17203120126493562641

us with bait

[brisk spoke]

All nice and good if we live in a fairytale land utopia where everything is free, but alas, it is not.
I'm not even talking about profit margins. I'm talking about cost of setup. Unless you would like to pour your time in a commercial MMO, working 40-60 hrs per week, without getting paid to feed yourself? And if you do, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

[worthy ivy]

yuuuup

like I said the other day: you want $200 games, because that's how you get $200 games

[hasty grail]

i think i know how to scare Catgpt

[cursive solar]

can i be real with you?

[urban venture]

yeh. the whole SKG initiative has had good back and forth in here over the last little while. today just looks like a collective disaster. and to be fair I saw at least 3 new videos on the subject pop up in the last 24hrs specifically calling pirate the guy who wants to kill games

[nova bough]

do tell

[urban venture]

it's lost most of its good faith

[cursive solar]

there are not alot of indie devs making mmos currently for good reason, its extremely difficult

[nova bough]

super weird cat there

[urban venture]

calf

[hasty grail]

||alf eats cats||

[nova bough]

i dont believe it

[cursive solar]

oh yea, im guessing it will be people from pewdiepies fans and jacksepticeyes

[jolly sky]

I mean, there are still plenty enough to be worth playing. But with the above proposal, you would be forcing them entirely out of the market

[urban venture]

server costs alone make me sweat thinking about it, let alone making a game that has enough depth to satisfy a large customer base interacting with one another

[fluid dome]

Ya know

Just once

[brisk spoke]

Hard to give basic consumer rights on a product that couldn't even go live to begin with 🤷‍♂️

[fluid dome]

I'd like to enter stream chat and not see discussion of skg

[umbral gazelle]

not to mention you need to moderate it etc.

[umbral gazelle]

you will probably need to wait another few months sadly

[cursive solar]

i understand that it will probably lock out tons of indie devs from even trying to make mmos and look i might be a bad person for believing this but because of how little people will want to make mmos themselves, its a worthy sacrifice to me, but i understand why for others it wouldnt

[fluid dome]

Kibby

[cursive solar]

but i dont think it would make as big an impact as what others are saying

actually i should correct, probably not tons, but the ones that do want to make mmos

[nova bough]

his name is Hermes, and its like 30 min away from daily wet food meal

[cursive solar]

mmos already take a ton of funding to even make

[brisk spoke]

Right. At this point I'm pretty sure you're just attempting to bait. 🙂

[nova bough]

not proof, that is a breadcat

[jolly sky]

A sacrifice that ensures that only the big AAA companies get their chance to make MMO's/Online games is the opposite of what you want

[shy mist]

Question, once the initiative passes, will we in this chat then be forced into the same team?

As in, then the situation will have changed to "this thing is happening", so it will be in your interest to collaborate with the SKG supporters with your energy and knowledge of IP/Copyright/dev advocacy problems, to make sure the dangers you predict are less likely, right?

With the passion in display, would be beautiful if our interests aligned

[umbral gazelle]

we have known this since they entered the server

[stone prairie]

Assuming the get 1m and don't lose enough to invalidate their collection to under 1m, we'll likely see this subject for at least 4-6 more months while the EU invites experts to speak their piece on it and for the SKG to present their piece. I'm sure that'll be a bigger shitshow heh.

[umbral gazelle]

"EU invites experts to speak their piece"

https://tenor.com/view/doubt-press-x-la-noire-meme-x-button-gif-19259237

[nova bough]

not really. because no one is going to ask us here in chat for our opinions. i fully expect EU lawmakers to just look at it and throw it out

[fluid dome]

The experts in question:

[brisk spoke]

Fair enough. Suits me right for being a people person and trying to genuinely explain what's wrong

[fluid dome]

https://tenor.com/view/ea-ea-games-challenge-everything-gaming-gif-17330237

[cursive solar]

it wouldnt just be AAA, it would just effect the very small indie devs, although in reality, what we are both arguing is just what ifs at this point

[umbral gazelle]

you are to kind for this channel

[jolly sky]

They clearly aren't willing to actually listen, so I wouldn't bother

[cursive solar]

but i get what your saying

i just disagree

[urban venture]

just going to point something out, there's 3 perspectives I can see here:

• consumer
• dev/creatives
• company

the creatives and the consumers are going to have the largest overlap of agreeable points. both want the art(game) to be preserved. the consumer wants it because they love the game, the creatives want it because it's their hard work, collectively turned into that game.

the companies on the other hand, are the profit motivated group. they are the ones with greater sway in their industry and unfortunately, greater sway in government.

to posit that people like Thor, a dev, wishes to hinder consumers, absolutely needs further reinforcement other than "he misrepresented SKG also he's formerly from blizzard soooooo". his entire point summarized was that the initiative is poorly worded and needs to be bolstered ahead of its potential hearing, if it reached the required number of signatures. that's it. you can argue about how he went about it regarding attitude towards Ross Scott, but he is correct in bringing up the challenges SKG will have to face if it were to go forward. especially with said sway that companies have in government.

[cursive solar]

im listening man, i just disagree

[nova bough]

same.

[jolly sky]

Not even very small. Even mid-sized developer studios would crumble over the legally enforced costs

[golden latch]

That sad to believe

[stone prairie]

I mean, yes. like it or not, gaming is a multi-billion dollar industry even in Europe so they're gonna ask the game companies that are HQ there. Maybe EA, maybe not, but there are other studios with headquarters in Europe paying EU taxes to boot.

[jolly sky]

nah I wasn't replying about you

[worthy ivy]

yeah but bait is tasty and typing costs basically nothing 🙂

[golden latch]

Im sorry you feel that way

[cursive solar]

that, we absolutely dont know

[cursive solar]

npnp

[worthy ivy]

mmmm tasty

[umbral gazelle]

If Games are art then by the virtue of art government cannot enforce anything cause it would violate free expression.

another fun issue :D

[urban venture]

I could go on a rant about the commodification of art as a whole but that will absolutely get political

so I won't lol

[fluid dome]

Games are also a service and also a product sooooo how are you cutting this cake?

[umbral gazelle]

xD

[umbral gazelle]

isnt it interesting!

[cursive solar]

and again, if something gets done, this is something that should be enacted years down the line for devs to adjust, cause i understand it would be unfair to sorta just throw devs into the deep end (as a dev)

[gloomy dome]

https://tenor.com/view/music-perform-pirate-ship-spiritfarer-gif-14309837

games are absolutely art imo

[umbral gazelle]

games cant be a product or art is has to be something entirely new!

[nova bough]

some games i consider to be art. some games i consider to be an experience that happens to be artistic.

[jolly sky]

Trying to just soapbox and shout your will into the crowd isn't going to convince anyone

[urban venture]

SKG isn't the one and only push anyone can make to resolve this general issue, it's the one that is currently presented. albeit by someone who is handling it poorly and has now caused a litany of drama to cascade into this server

[stone prairie]

Some art can be a service, and all art is ultimately a product if its brought and sold.

[wind hare]

Who is this "we"? You don't even know how many people here are from that areas effected

[restive cape]

I remember the days when standalone servers were much more common. It feels like the practice really dropped off in popularity, preferring instead to have centralized servers (not gone, just not as frequent as it felt like it used to be)
So, I understand where SKG is coming from. But, nothing about the initiative gave me the confidence that it would be steered in the right direction - to make sure that anything that gets pushed through doesn't end up being detrimental in practice.

This isn't a "either you support the initiative or you want to kill games" - there are soo many levels of grey in between

[fluid dome]

The industry will always be predatory if companies like Ubisoft exist

[umbral gazelle]

yes we will. Thor actively encourges indie devs creating a massive influx of games those games are worth buying.

[jolly sky]

Local man was asked his opinion, and voices his concerns from a developer point of view in an industry he has knowledge and experience in

"BURN THE HERETIC"

[umbral gazelle]

i wonder how many people have actually gone and played all the games that has made because Thor encourged it

there are gems

[urban venture]

INDUSTRY PLANT

[cursive solar]

and because of that, it should be clearly stated what a game is, currently a game can be shut down out of no where (unironically)

[jolly sky]

You've already started the conversation on IP and Copyright. You cannot hand-wave, or skirt around that conversation or argument

[nova bough]

games are bigger now. people dont want to be in their own silo of a server, for some large games like mmos. and, the more traffic a server gets, the cost becomes exponentially large to run it.

[brisk spoke]

That's kind of the thing, IMO.
The idea is there. The execution is TERRIBLE.

[gloomy dome]

or we could stop buying fifas and triple a destiny2s and buy more balatros and monster train 2s

[umbral gazelle]

Yep and you would be anwsered by "Well to bad brah the law is the law we cant infringe others rights for your own"

[shy mist]

I like you guys

[umbral gazelle]

nom onom tasty bait

[hasty grail]

https://tenor.com/view/alf-dancing-dance-disco-dance-moves-gif-17733678134452967885

[fluid dome]

Well, you see, Thor gave me a migraine personally, he came to my flat and smashed my head with a hammer and disappeared into the void. And now I have this migraine. How dare he! /j

[nova bough]

i like me, too. and cats.

[opaque raven]

Florida Man just wanted to destroy League of Legends but end up hurting the whole industry

[hasty grail]

https://tenor.com/view/alf-gif-10323257363117920061

[cursive solar]

in my opinion, people should be given in all situations at least 6 months notice if a game is being shut down, currently there are games that do that, and theres games that dont, those games that didnt need to be corrected and made impossible

[umbral gazelle]

This is how he avoids gnomes too he just steps into the shadows and teleports to the nearest ferret

[idle hill]

It's not a "basic consumer right" to:
1: Require developers to give users tools in order to run servers after EOL
2: Require developers not to license games to users (which they do to protect themselves from exploitative consumers)
3: Require publishers to shut down games that do not comply with new laws

You bought the game, you should have read the terms of service as well. If you did not, because "it was too long and used weird words!" then you should ask yourself, should I try to understand this language? Is this game even worth that much to me? Why are the terms written this way?

[urban venture]

while it ends up feeling like a drop of water in the ocean, it helps to continue to spread this kind of message around. Balatro's success certainly illustrated our appetite for indie games, even something like Expedition 33 is now satisfying our want for great looking games, fully fleshed out to the expectations we have for AAA.

voting with our wallets doesn't always work but word of mouth, now that has power

[restive cape]

except that people clearly do want the option to be in their own silo of a server

[nova bough]

and that isnt possible for all games :)

[jolly sky]

Yes and someone who has no idea about the complexities, difficulty, or money involved in game development made a poorly worded and vague Slogan Initiative with a cool sounding name and ignored 90% of what games are.

[umbral gazelle]

the amount of promised minimum months or year should be on the buy button itself. make it extremely clear.

[opaque raven]

ALF!!! It's so cool, I saw some episodes recently

[gloomy dome]

monster train 2 is one of the best indi titles ive played im not kidding also agree

[cursive solar]

truuuuue

[urban venture]

I should give it a look over, never really bothered seeing what it's about

[shy mist]

We aren't gonna get anywhere with a "whose side is a bigger expert". We already can tell there's devs with experience in both signing and not signing sides

[cursive solar]

and also i want to state, this should not be too much to ask from a dev or publisher at the very least ^

[nova bough]

"law" and "fast" are the opposite of each other

[brisk spoke]

Just a shame that the series ended on a cliffhanger and they basically shoehorned the "tying up loose ends" in a movie

[umbral gazelle]

https://tenor.com/view/flash-slothmore-zootopia-smiling-gif-12390417

[fluid dome]

That's on the publishers and the companies that run the storefronts, ot the devs. All this initiative will do is just be another excuse for AAA publishers to punish dev teams who support it.

[jovial sandal]

you do not want law to move fast

[opaque raven]

I've been asking for steam sales recommendations for 2 days

[gloomy dome]

maybe m wierd for this but imp there shouldnt be deadlines to make games, it should be "hey we will relese this game when it is done but i agree with the genral idea

[stone prairie]

Conversely, all these people saying its feasible, easy, and lucrative can go make games for us and prove it also. I wouldn't object to new game companies producing new games that aren't bound to live service strategies.

[cursive solar]

whether its on the page or not makes no difference, its the fact that currently companies dont really require to state it

[idle hill]

The license exists so exploitative users don't do anything that could negatively reflect the company. If it is written to exploit the user, then don't use the service.

[golden latch]

Question do you deserve to be happy?

[jolly sky]

They don't have the right to drum up incredibly harming Initiatives that will actively kill studios getting into game development, thus actually killing games.

[gentle mortar]

crypt of the necrodancer is crazy cheap, good game

[gloomy dome]

if you like card games mt2 is great

[cursive solar]

and also about it being on the store page, it could, it can be in the description

[fluid dome]

Consumers don't actually give a shit about the back end, they just want to consume

[nova bough]

those are already being made. stuff like raft or valheim. but shouldnt limit devs to only have that infrastucture

[gloomy dome]

but they should

[umbral gazelle]

https://tenor.com/view/popcorn-gossip-listening-suspense-drama-gif-18062083597614221595

[stone prairie]

I picked up Fields of Mistria and Tiny Glade on Steam Sales. Enjoying those.

[opaque raven]

I have Cadence of Hyrule on switch, it's crazy cool with the Zelda theme

[wind hare]

Rimworld has an Xpak coming out. Should be ready in a week. It will give you over 1000 hours of playtime with mods

[umbral gazelle]

predatory*

[gloomy dome]

picked up shinmegemi v and rido remaster myself

[median hornet]

Can I be real, I also think that some people are hyping game dev server side to be some insurmountable task to edit in any way and I find that just as dishonest as people pretending it’s a switch flip.

[urban venture]

it wont change with poorly worded initiatives that bank on the government to write it out after the fact, with experts whom we know not where they will pull them from.

discussion about the legality of this entire situation should occur before the initiative is even written out and launched, but it wasn't. instead we got a vague initiative that needed discussion to occur, but got stifled early on and never went far for months afterwards.

should be noted that pirate did not kill this initiative, Ross Scott's own ineptitude did. the lack of foresight to write it out in further detail, to reach out to more creatives both in dev circles and in content creator circles early on, as well as fighting publically with thor when the initiative was on its last leg and barely at half the signatures needed. he needed a scapegoat to divert attention away from his own shortcomings.

I do not hate the guy, barely know the guy. but laying the blame here on Thor and all of us like we're purposely out here to kill games is ridiculous, and far from benign. the stress from this cannot be understated.

[opaque raven]

I love Loop Hero with a passion, does that count as card game?

[jolly sky]

You think you're being clever, but you really aren't. And still completely ignoring how difficult game development actually is.

[gloomy dome]

i think they did a newer game a kind of guitar hero style one

[gloomy dome]

yes but no ?

[opaque raven]

And Baten Kaitos

[umbral gazelle]

Remember everyone Thor has the power to single handily kill any European citizens initiative

[nova bough]

long lemon strikes again

[golden latch]

Thor is the lynchpin

[urban venture]

it's called mjolnir

[wind hare]

Some people really think that

[fluid dome]

It's difficult, not impossible. Afaik other spaces in softdev already preserve their stuff I think?

[umbral gazelle]

oh my god

yes

[gentle mortar]

Yep, crazy they got picked to create their own Zelda game. Still remember the announcement.

[worthy ivy]

AAA and AAAA are investment terms that have no bearing on the quality of the final product

you can buy a AAA investment in oilseed fields or a salmon farm or whatever

[shy mist]

Agree. Also kind of magnifying the amount of indies that would actually be affected and do a big live service game around when the law is implemented and before the standards and successful implementations are well known or even aided by the main engines

[nova bough]

AAAAA when

[umbral gazelle]

Star citizen

sorry

had to

[urban venture]

more like AAAAAH

[umbral gazelle]

does that mean never?

[worthy ivy]

we're throwing around all this terminology that isn't even anything to do with games

[gloomy dome]

some triple A re good loook at balders gate 3

[cursive solar]

oh god lets not make AAAA an actual serious term now

[opaque raven]

So far I only got

• Duck Detective and the Secret Salami
• Patrick's Parabox

[nova bough]

oh you know what, you're absolutely right

[gloomy dome]

it just depends on the thing

[worthy ivy]

AAAA already is in investment circles

[elder scaffold]

Thor, an american, can

[worthy ivy]

not sure if any game studio is AAAA yet

[gloomy dome]

duck detective is so funny

[median hornet]

That’s another good point, yeah

[worthy ivy]

but it's not a gaming term

[cursive solar]

and to think ubisoft started that... (i think if i remember right)

[gloomy dome]

@opaque raven you ever play slay the princess?

if not you should

[idle hill]

Erm actually Skull and Bones is a AAAA game

[golden latch]

Cant wait for a S+ investment strategy plan

[elder scaffold]

Whatever is a AAAA game?

[median hornet]

You should also play Fat Princess

[nova bough]

oh you know what, we have more AAAAA games. they're called gachas.

[urban venture]

AAAA is the sound I make when I realize I hate the gathering mini game

[gloomy dome]

oh geez how far rare has fallen

[worthy ivy]

yarp - if you say Thor's full name three times in front of a mirror he appears and instantly nukes any EU initiatives within 1000 miles

[opaque raven]

Sadly it seems like a very short game
It's 3hrs average on HowLongToBeat

[elder scaffold]

A game with giant budget that noboby plays?

[fluid dome]

https://tenor.com/view/suopontwitch-suopontwitch-angry-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaa-gif-20673700

[golden latch]

Very very very very good idea to investment in

[gloomy dome]

disagreee some gatcha good

[opaque raven]

Never heard of it

[golden latch]

Supposedly

[jolly sky]

The other points though is that some people refuse to seperate from games is the IP and Copyright. They're unwilling to actually get into and understand that, when it is an inseperable concept

[idle hill]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-thats-bait-tom-hardy-mad-max-gif-5055384

[nova bough]

yea disagree. i've played the "good" ones. i still find them predatory.

[gloomy dome]

buy IT NOW if you like point and clcik, horor

[hazy storm]

I think you'll find is that this server will be the first to call out thor. We don't blindly follow him

[jovial sandal]

it fails to adequately define the specific problem, and leaves the solution sought completely unstated. That's vague

[cursive solar]

if AAAA ever actually happens i may have to quit game dev, im at least 3 A's behind

[wind hare]

Gatcha is never good and is used to trick people into spending more money. The game might be good, but the practice shoudl be shunned

[median hornet]

Highly agreed

[jolly prism]

https://tenor.com/view/epic-npc-man-hu-ha-nice-day-for-fishing-morning-mornin-gif-17883323

[worthy ivy]

no, but I do believe things that Thor says that ring true with my internal model of how the world works?

it's this new thing, it's called critical thinking

you should try it some time

[urban venture]

damn sometimes people say things that I feel the need to reply to but know it wont go anywhere

such is the case right now

[gloomy dome]

id normaly agree but im a heavy master dule player

[jolly sky]

"and the details will come later, and that is not a problem, is necessary to be like that."

Except that multiple Initiatives have been accepted with fine detail and focus on what they want.

So its not a necessity whatsoever, and whoever told you that needs to check their sources

[golden latch]

Wrap all the way around to Z

[gloomy dome]

and the COMPOSER FOR OCOTOPATH 2 WORKED ON IT

[elder scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/vldl-vivaladirtleague-vldl-greg-vivaladirtleague-greg-vldl-greg-fast-travel-gif-27258386

[worthy ivy]

looks like your bait was actually quite good 🙂

[gloomy dome]

yes i love vdl

[jolly prism]

https://tenor.com/view/outrageous-vldl-viva-la-dirt-league-dark-souls-gif-20524337

[median hornet]

Oh man, I remember doing that once. I got bullied and threatened for not riding insert persons favorite slop content creator

[brisk spoke]

https://tenor.com/view/red-dwarf-cat-fish-gif-20825952

[jolly sky]

Clearly didn't read what was typed

[hazy storm]

Dude in all honesty i an not angry or annoyed or anything to you and in fact respect you for willing to discuss things here.

But just because we hold a different point of view than you did not make us sheep

[jolly sky]

Try again

[opaque raven]

There is actually a game now

[urban venture]

that entire response was so incredibly loaded, I'm having a hard time processing it. but clearly they aren't here for actual discussion and have consistently chosen to be the antagonist here

[elder scaffold]

kinda gives me a maplestory kinda vibe

[jolly prism]

How is it, if you know, heard about it but never looked into it.

[median hornet]

Maplestory ✨

[fluid dome]

I actually do want an 8888 page document describing exactly what the initiative wants.

[worthy ivy]

you want to rephrase that in a way that doesn't make me feel like I'm having a stroke

shit, I smell toast

[gloomy dome]

i met the head writter, male and female holy as well as mr hologram himself

[urban venture]

RIP Maplestory 2 NA server

[idle hill]

PLEASE, give us a long, detailed description of EXACTLY what the initiative wants

UNIRONICALLY I want that

[fluid dome]

https://tenor.com/view/well-that's-too-damn-bad-holes-too-bad-oh-well-suck-it-up-gif-14703423262202948839

[jolly sky]

"And the details will come later, and that is not a problem, is necessary to be like that."

Except that multiple Initiatives have been accepted with fine detail and focus on what they want.

So its not a necessity whatsoever, and whoever told you that needs to check their sources

[brisk spoke]

Awesome! I'm still hoping they actually do release a new series. Actors aren't getting any younger

[jolly sky]

Do you want to address this?

[worthy ivy]

twice

[gloomy dome]

https://tenor.com/view/dr-who-rules-sing-never-ever-tell-me-the-rules-gif-16536746

[urban venture]

ok chat, it's time to put on our critical thinking caps!

[fluid dome]

Can you even vote on the initiative?

[urban venture]

(says something stupid)

[idle hill]

Guys we gotta remove the EU from the map

[gloomy dome]

highly unlikley given the end of the last specal

[urban venture]

abracadabra, alakazam, I turn the EU into a giant ham

[brisk spoke]

Yeah, true 😦

[opaque raven]

No no no, I'm not a big fan of horror games, im easily frightened

[nova bough]

if yall want an example of a good EU initiative that has had a lot of good impact for video games...

go look at the one for loot boxes. it was targeted and knocked out a predatory practice.

[gloomy dome]

and most of the actors are old as balls (no ofense mr hologram is looking good for his age but male holly well uh

[jolly sky]

"And the details will come later, and that is not a problem, is necessary to be like that."

Except that multiple Initiatives have been accepted with fine detail and focus on what they want.

So its not a necessity whatsoever, and whoever told you that needs to check their sources

Can you address this?

[fluid dome]

Cool, I signed the UK one.

[shy mist]

Genuine question, as the main hole seems to be about IP/Copyright, do you have an example of one of those detailed initiatives that passed where they were clear about how to handle an intrinsic, copyright related issue?

I saw a successful initiative posted but was not about copyright

[fluid dome]

https://tenor.com/view/austin-powers-dr-evil-zip-it-funny-annoyed-gif-14443050

[tribal bronze]

critical thinking? never heard of it

[jolly sky]

Didn't they already throw that one out?

[jolly prism]

What's the temperature outside around your parts?

[gloomy dome]

i am too its not primarly horor its uh well eldritch plese its ther best point and click ive played

[idle hill]

It's where every time you think you have a chance to have an aneurysm

[gloomy dome]

and the actors are all a bit old

[stone prairie]

Don't forget with ECI, its the intiative organizers that have to defend and explain their goals and objectives to the EU commission whose also gonna ask the Gaming Industry for their take on it. The vague information and ease of misinterpetion not to mention the lack of ability to push anything without a drama filled narrative is not gonna work well in a public meeting.

[golden latch]

“The government” said that so who knows who actually did

[fluid dome]

They failed the first one because parliament dissolved last year, but now its open again the initiative has been put forward again

[gloomy dome]

26 c

[tribal bronze]

that sounds dangerous, i better not think critically 😇

[median hornet]

It’s 26° here too, it’s kinda nice when the wind blows

[golden latch]

Okay if youre so content why are you here?

[tribal bronze]

i like when my licence can be revoked for any or no cause jokes on you :D

[gloomy dome]

right because they are gona totaly make crunch disapear overnight lmao

[restive cape]

My jaw literally dropped when Ross's pitch included that one slide about "easy win" etc. Being cynical about politicians is one thing, including it in a presentation that is meant to draw support, it felt like Ross was intentionally trying to push away those with the power to make it happen

[nova bough]

i mean i also want fair practices. but i also want to be fair to indie devs

[median hornet]

If it happens in a good way, we’ll all be happy to.

[gloomy dome]

wind yeh that would be nice

[idle hill]

!dishes

[dapper raven]

Just do them. Hey, you, yeah you, chatter, you've got dishes, huh? Why are you leaving them out? Do em now! Stop waiting. Go do them. Don't even think about leaving them on the counter or the sink. DO. THOSE. DISHES yarrRage

[jolly sky]

"Finally forced back to fair practices"

Name a point when it was ever a "fair practice" in your eyes

[jolly prism]

What?

[golden latch]

?

[gloomy dome]

you good lol

[umbral gazelle]

i think he finally cracked think his thinking thingy broke

[tribal bronze]

he said something weird.... not bad????

[wind hare]

I wonder what the odds are the the UK passes the first step in SKG's but make's it worse off in the end for everyone. They did vote themselves out of the EU.

[gloomy dome]

he was asking if its warm theres a heat wave in the uk rn

[median hornet]

Bro is trippin actually wait

[gloomy dome]

lol

[nova bough]

it is lunchtime

[jolly sky]

I'm sure it will.. I'm sure it will

[gloomy dome]

<lives in the uk

XD

[jolly prism]

Also, if you think that I am the biggest Thor fan here, oh boy does my chat history have something to tell you

[golden latch]

Has been

[median hornet]

Probably, I’m at work so I’m catching snippets

[golden latch]

its great being on the receiving end isnt it

Its been wild

[brisk spoke]

"The reckoning is coming, and I’ll be riding a flaming battle ostrich straight into your headquarters, dual-wielding refund requests and patch notes! NYahahahahahahahaha!"

[stone prairie]

The only person I'm a fan of is Beans.

[golden latch]

Oh i love the ostrich knights jousting game

[median hornet]

I agree with this!!!!!

[shy mist]

I was equally puzzled about the overblown reaction to this. I don't know if you are European as well or not, but for me that slide is accurate to how politics works in Europe and just a cheeky way to put it that, if I'm honest, reminded me to the style Thor uses in those awesome shorts that brought me to like him in the first place.

Aka, what he described as the result of studying stand up comedians to become good at Twitch/communication

[idle hill]

I like this one ->

[golden latch]

We got a phising link

[spare trellis]

holy scam link batman

[jolly prism]

I am fine with receiving, they could just be smarter about it

[jolly sky]

If you're not actually willing to talk about it with a fair argument, why are you even here?

This message alone proves that you aren't willing to budge whatsoever

[median hornet]

He’s bored

The YouTube shorts dried up

[golden latch]

Yeah ive been wishing that too

[nova bough]

https://tenor.com/view/kid-touch-grass-gif-24659299

[tribal bronze]

can i ask a question 👉 👈

[golden latch]

Are you allowed to be?

[idle hill]

No

[golden latch]

Shoot

[jolly sky]

Of course

[jolly prism]

And the temperature question was simply to see if he will confidently reply in fahrenheit instead of celsius, thus not even voting on the initiative

[gloomy dome]

dear all trolls i hope you get stuck in a loop of bad memes rick roles and costume changes

[golden latch]

To clever for you

Okay ya might pull that one back

[gloomy dome]

lets maybe not with telling people to um yk

[tribal bronze]

why did thor be so mean to the STK guy, and why he did´nt want to talk in stream like he does with healthy gamer and many others, thor does´nt seem like the person to just be mean to someone randomly 🤔

[nova bough]

hey. none of that

you can think whatever you want. not everyone will agree with you

[golden latch]

There was a lot of harassment I’m between the first and second video thor made however thor has since apologized for the behavior

[wind hare]

What country do you even live in?

[opaque raven]

I'm gonna post an image that might not be acceptable here but I do believe it's very important anyway
Be aware

[median hornet]

Be kind

[jolly sky]

Oh thank goodness

[idle hill]

Let's not tell people to off themselves

[golden latch]

Op nvm

[astral crypt]

alright that's it. You come here rage baiting and not actually engaging with things, you're gone.

It's not that hard

[golden latch]

🙏

[umbral gazelle]

frankly im surprised you didnt snipe him sooner xP

[nova bough]

https://tenor.com/view/fishing-swallog-prey-bye-gif-11429031

[idle hill]

mods are busy on the live chat too

[jolly sky]

Inb4 they send their "friend" into the server to defend him

[fluid dome]

I might have gone too hard on that one

[astral crypt]

been a tad busy (not raging at you, ofc!)

[jovial sandal]

Thor apologized for his initial responses being rude, but to be honest, all of it was in line with somewhat typical bravado on the internet. It's not the first time Thor has said something should eat his entire ass

[golden latch]

Its the _ s that give it away

[tribal bronze]

discord new to the server leaf icon
looks inside
:

[astral crypt]

ya if you don't delete that, I'm about to

[gloomy dome]

mods doing work today

[fluid dome]

It's gone

[gloomy dome]

based

[fluid dome]

Apologies

[jolly prism]

"somemadeupname is writing" 🍿

[shy mist]

I'll rephrase this cause I didn't get any backlash.

As a casual observer, I found the "Politicians like an easy win" slide from Ross on the same vein as some of the out of the box humourous lateral thinking statements that I loved from Thor's shorts. So I was really surprised to see a big reaction against that. I perceived Ross and Thor as having much in common before that shrug

[worthy ivy]

no complaints - means we get to play a bit before they get yeeted 🙂

goblins love bait

[fluid dome]

Today's just been a lot

[jolly sky]

#streamchat message

Basically what this said. Ton's of harassment before, during and after the upload times of the 2 videos he put out. Ross made no attempt to denounce those people doing so and just saw it as "free advertisement" and didn't want to get involved with that crowd

[golden latch]

Its all good just try and keep composure i know its rough

[fluid dome]

Woke up late and basically all the day is gone for me so that's great

[jolly sky]

Many thanks as always Maggie.

[wind hare]

Which I don't understand. IF they want to really go far they need a better spokesperson then him.

[golden latch]

We all are kinda at the limit im at the flagged for rules pvp atm

[brisk spoke]

One thing that's a bit sad though. I did thoroughly enjoy Freeman's Mind, so Ross being this toxic for clout does leave a bad taste 😦

[jolly sky]

Well after knowing how his supporters behaved the first time around, he did it again last week with 30-ish minutes of placing the blame for it flagging squarely on Thors shoulders

[shy mist]

How is Ross being toxic for clout?

[restive cape]

I get that is the way politics works in reality, but the humour was lost on me. If anything, it raised doubts for me, as it was hinting that the details required to make sure whatever is passed isn't detrimental in practice, may not be sufficiently followed up on (if the sentiment is that the politicians don't know better anyway, why bother?). Sure, everything might work out - it's not like an initiative needs to iron out all the details up front - but it is still risk

[idle hill]

Dude was basically just baiting us into explaining everything wrong and what the actual focus of SKG should be to fix the vague wording while simultaneously telling us we were wrong and should rethink our morals, that they'll laugh when laws favor consumers even if it infringed on dev/publisher rights
I understand the frustration but there are some lines we don't cross

[golden latch]

And at the end was just saying effectively “im on the right side of history” he was definitely going

[lunar moth]

Thor's shorts are meant to encourage people to be more creative and act on the atuff that interests them. To put that line into a political initiative is both pandering and making concessions to politicians before they are even involved.

That's why it is extremely telling and to anyone interested in political discourse a tell-tale sign that the initiative isn't fully honest.

Another initiative that has passed was the "clean water" initiative, because everyone need and deserve clean water. It'd be like saying "everyone deserves and need it, but it'd be easier to get it to pass if we pretend some people don't deserve it."

[nova bough]

why is roast beef sandwich on an onion bun with cheese sauce on it so good?

these are the real questions

[idle hill]

ooh that does sound good

[shy mist]

Ok thank you for the explanation. I can't say I manage to understand it, but I appreciate you giving your POV

[idle hill]

man I kinda want arby's now, it's been a while

[nova bough]

i was craving arbys, but didnt want to buy fast food. so i made it myself

[brisk spoke]

where can I learn this power?

[idle hill]

we don't have roast beef sandwiches at wendy's and I believe it'd cost me about the same amount to get the ingredients to make the sandwich

[nova bough]

with the power of the grocery store (and maybe the internet if you arnt sure whats in whatever you're making.)

[idle hill]

ew, someone's viewbotting thor, gross

[brisk spoke]

I'm still on a quest to find fast food recipes to make them vegetarian

[jolly sky]

Well for one, not denouncing anyone going over to send harassment Thors way after the initial SKG spark, and from what I can see has never even mentioned or has said "Sorry but you don't deserve this hate"

And then a week ago, ranting for 30 minutes about Thor putting the blame of it flagging directly on Thor's shoulders.

[frozen nimbus]

Unfortunately this hail Mary is working

[nova bough]

its like arbys

[jovial sandal]

To believe that this legislation would be an easy win shows that the person making the statement may not understand the full gravity of the fight they're getting into. Just saying that it won't touch copyright law doesn't make it so

[frozen nimbus]

They had months to speak out agiesnt thor but decided to do it right as SKG is dying out.

[nova bough]

i think im going to throw some tater tots in the oven

[wind hare]

They are doing it to make him look bad and report him for doing it. Saw some BS on Dropped Frames were people were spreading lies about him activaely doing it

[jolly sky]

Exactly. Trying to hand-wave away that this discussion won't also be a discussion about copyright and IP law is someone who is woefuly unprepared to face it

[idle hill]

I was thinking of getting some cold roast beef from the deli meat section, some cheddar cheese sauce and if I can find some, put it on a pretzel bun

[frozen nimbus]

Ah yes, cause this will obviously help support SKG

[jovial sandal]

never understood the logic of viewbotting a large streamer as an attack vector. Like, do they believe twitch wouldnt have the analytics to determine that it's harrasment

[shy mist]

Ok this made me actually understand the concern, thanks. Do not agree with the conclusion but I can see how that comes about for sure

[golden latch]

Guess what thor reports abnormal veiw counts preemptively specifically for this reason as its a common tactic and twitch knows it

[idle hill]

Thor has to be the one to tell Twitch, otherwise Twitch would think he was viewbotting on purpose

[wind hare]

it's more the people who have been after him for years, same people from the Warcraft drama. There is just a group of people who hate him and will look for anything to take him down,

[tribal bronze]

ussualy you expect someone to viewbot themselves, so if someone viewbots you, then there is a chance they ban you for a crime they are commiting XD

[nova bough]

thats more or less what i did, but did onion buns

[brisk spoke]

wait, what is "viewbotting" exactly? I'm not that familiar with the whole YT/Twitch thing

(other than watching people's streams)

[wind hare]

It's a bunch of fake viewers, that are bots, that drive your numbers up. Makes it look like more people are watching you but it doesn't add more ad revinue

[jovial sandal]

viewbotting is causing a network of bots to load the stream to inflate viewer numbers

[jolly sky]

Well if they're either the same people who have tried in the past, or know them, then they would also know that he always tells Twitch firsthand that its happening. So what's even the point other than wasting shitloads of money lmao

[idle hill]

Paying a site to send a bunch of fake accounts to your stream so analytics go up

[brisk spoke]

And what are they trying to accomplish by viewbotting Thor's streams?

[idle hill]

To get him banned

[jovial sandal]

trying to get him banned for it

[brisk spoke]

oh. jfc

[wind hare]

From what they said on Dropped Frames, a Twitch employee said they know who bots and who doesn't. They have a way to see it and have been ignoring it in general

[frozen nimbus]

Yeah...

[golden latch]

Bots (robots are fake or artificial entities) that are used to do various tasks in this case “watch” the stream to bring up artificially, the view count. they do this to report and try and slander the individual.

[jolly sky]

Did they have a Twitch employee on the podcast itself? And did they say that Twitch ignores the people who viewbot their own channel?

[idle hill]

Pretty sure Thor has a video on a similar topic, referring to botting - WoW knows who's a bot and knows it's an issue, but they ban in waves so it becomes harder for the botters to figure out where they went wrong
It could also be Twitch is trying to figure out what the issue itself is that allows botting to occur

[wind hare]

I think JP has a source who he talked to. I can't remember which one mentioned it. It wasn't Cohh

[jolly sky]

Not gonna lie, I don't buy that as the sudden massive amount of viewbots cost a shitload of revenue against Twitch

[idle hill]

Think about it
If you ban a bot, they'll just make a new bot
You gotta figure out what allows the bot to be made or used in the first place

[kindred sedge]

People are swarming pewdiepie now about making a video on SKG. Luckily no hate from what I can see in the comments

[idle hill]

was gonna say, that's the same pic twice lol

[nova bough]

it depends on if the bot is getting the video. streaming the video does cost money

[jolly sky]

Anyway, the viewbots have been removed it seems

[wind hare]

From what they said, view botting doesn't add Ad Rev to the streamer, it just sets them higher in the Twitch ratings

[golden latch]

I wonder if the drama farmers are gonna try and fake being pirate fans to make more strife

[wind hare]

So it just makes Twitch look bad for saying that they will ban you for it, but they don't do anything about it

[jolly sky]

and as soon I say it....

It comes back

[hasty grail]

im going to assume its going to be a quirk for today

[jolly sky]

I dunno, still not sure I buy it (That Twitch employee admitting that they ignore people who viewbot their own channel) and then making the connection that Thor does it purposefully

[hasty grail]

anyways, Summer Games Done Quick is next week

[jolly sky]

That sounds like another wild-ass conspiracy to me

[wind hare]

https://youtu.be/HHLC3NoJgGk?si=-Nff0iqfxkt78rV1&t=3402

it starts at the Twitch stuff

[nova bough]

ah the bots are headless and just add to the counter/make the chat list longer

so yeah. just makes the streamer show higher on the list

[wind hare]

They do make a joke about Thor and I got angry and posted about it being in bad taste to Cohh. He didn't seem to care

[hasty grail]

dont worry too much about it

[shy mist]

This seems very biased.

I feel that Thor making a react to a Ross video was described as a reaction and an opinion, while Ross making a react about Thor video was described as a rant.

While if you compare those two, the Thor one was pointedly trashy / more ranty than the Ross one was, by a lot.

On the "sorry" part, I'm not sure if you mean "sorry, this is my responsibility" or "sorry that is happening to you, wish it wasn't"? Because if it's the first, I'm pretty sure I have seen Thor insist to not say sorry for things that are not your fault. And I don't think it's Ross's fault that people are horrible to Thor.

And if it's the second, I'm pretty sure Ross has indeed said something on those lines.

I am also biased in the sense that I'm not going to go out of my way to crawl for clips of what I believe to be true to prove it here

[hasty grail]

it will blow over in due time

[cursive solar]

watching a video just now and its pretty interesting so far, the guy is a networks programmer and has good experience in game dev in general it seems. seems like a small youtuber but actually interesting hearing this guys take https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zb7euiV-Dw