streamchat

[steep surge]

oh I have that too
I have a full cabinet of different flavours

[tight bramble]

What's your favorite?

[steep surge]

oh that really depends from week to week
Whichever doesn't make we want to vomit that day

[tight bramble]

Ain't that the truth. Mines usually orange. Or lime.

[steep surge]

I recently got an orange one as well that I really like! Also a cherry one
I also got small, but long plastic bags and made them into flavoured ice popsicles for the hot weather

Anyways I'm off to bed now!
Goodnight

[wet storm]

BEAR WITNEEEESS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXA5r8LOBPo

[wispy plover]

Love that video

[tight bramble]

FOREFATHERS ONE AND ALL!!!

[indigo wadi]

https://youtu.be/tmqNtkemmvY?si=hhARQjUN7aHvNByy this is massive:

Context: Ray Jay, New twitch streamer and welcomed to Twitch by Dan, admitted to Viewbotting

[tight bramble]

Bruh that man needs to just retire from show biz. He is STILL riding the "i hit it first" shit.

[indigo wadi]

Sure but doesn't change the viewbotting issue :p

[proud tundra]

There’s a streamer in this community I’m apart of and everyone is 90% sure he view bots

There’s just a bunch of accounts with no messages or just one message with random names

[tight bramble]

No its doesn't. Im just saying it seems like he is trying the streaming thing to keep himself relevant in the music space. If your sales are sliding, then maybe it's the music, not the audience.

[indigo wadi]

Anyone watch anything by The Merkins?

[tight bramble]

Ben not knowing who Ray j is makes me happy. I wonder what advertisers are going to do if view botting becomes a norm and is normalized.

[ripe minnow]

Ray Jay you mean Kim K's old ex?

Groan

[green plank]

wait...

are you guys telling me a 1k+ streamer had view bots

🤯

what the helly

[sand solstice]

Hope Thor streams dune today

[tight bramble]

I saw a video that people are using the worms to grief in pve zones.

Lemme find it right quick

[dusky grove]

With how dune was crashing last stream, i wont ne surprised if he takes a break

[wet storm]

lol that's a bit funny

A tale as old as time

[tight bramble]

I guess it's an old video from the 12th. So Thor would know about by now. Nevermind lol

[sand solstice]

Lol

[wet storm]

In remember in RO you could do it by pulling a mob onto a n unsuspecting player as an Assassin and going invisble

WoW has that with Vanish I think, or at least had, 'cos of leashing it could not be that easy

[tight bramble]

It's effectively a rope a dope. You drive around in circles to get the worms attention but near enough someone's base so it goes through it to get to you, or the Ai of the worm just switches to the base and sees it as a yummy to be eated.

[wet storm]

I used to play in an RO server where this group of dudes would pull this MASSIVE ENORMOUS mob into map portals so when someone visited it they'd get insta killed

[wet storm]

Wait worms attack bases?

I haven't clocked into the dune streams as much

[tight bramble]

If you do the exploit they can, if you build correctly the worm doesn't bother you. But the main issue is it's being done in pve zones by trolls.

[blissful imp]

Ready or Not is getting review bombed for censoring the pc version so the game can release onto consoles with Crossplay. https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/1lofq3i/ready_or_not_is_getting_review_bombed_after_devs/

[idle falcon]

Got told to bring the conversation about Stop killing games into here

https://youtu.be/HIfRLujXtUo?si=Vktz4cvp-tOsvXtj @pliant helm you saw this one right?

[pliant helm]

Yes. This is at least the fifth time I've had this conversation.

[wet storm]

On the sixth you get ice cream

[idle falcon]

Could I ask why its so vague in your view nimble?

[pliant helm]

You are so convinced that there's no reason to oppose your petition that you can't concieve of anyone disliking it.

Just stop buying the games. You do this with a hundred other things every day.

[idle falcon]

I

[pliant helm]

The entire reason this business model was ever embraced was because consumers like and support it.

[idle falcon]

That doesn't work in this situation though

[pliant helm]

You can't even find a million people on the planet who agree with you.

So not even the islands of Hawaii.

Or a suburb of New York City.

[tight bramble]

I've seen gameplay of it. Is it a fun game to play?

[idle falcon]

When you purchase a game, do you own a license to the game or do you physically own the media

[tight bramble]

Do we have punch cards? I never got mine when I signed up.

[pliant helm]

Depends on the game you're buying. But subscription based software is over two decades old at this point.

And it's usually clear that you're paying for a service, not a copy of the software.

You're also not entitled to unlimited viewings of a movie with a movie ticket.

Because you bought a service.

[idle falcon]

What about the misinformation being told however?

[pliant helm]

People keep insisting there is 'misinformation' and I can't find it anywhere.

Did you hide it?

[idle falcon]

He said during this exact moment of the stream that it requires that publishers keep live service on their games indefinitely

wrong thing

[pliant helm]

That is a completely reasonable interpretation from the SKG text.

[round bolt]

Hey hey it's skg o'clock

[idle falcon]

yup

https://tenor.com/view/bell-sao-bell-gif-26086947

"Hear Ye Hear Ye!"

[swift star]

Motherfrick...

[idle falcon]

also didnt mean to intrude on yall, got told to come here by luna

[round bolt]

Was reading Jack Vanias take about it today

A game dev in support

[slim ingot]

For how Thor was treated after skg, I would do the same he has done

[pliant helm]

....Did Ross remove the language about leaving games in a playable state?

[wet storm]

SKG more like, start killing games

https://tenor.com/view/past-die-kill-gif-24945231

[pliant helm]

Yes. If we need the government to stop us from buying games we don't like clearly we need to end video games.

[round bolt]

I was all so reading up about the Mr robot thing

[wet storm]

But end all of it

No more of the media in its entirety

We go back to playing street soccer

[swift star]

Motherlicking frick...

[idle falcon]

Its more or less to stop publishers from just completely lobotomizing the software after support is ended, like The Crew

[tight bramble]

We just need to re-release ET for the Atari. That'll kill video games, for true true

[pliant helm]

The Crew most likely died because the licensing for IP's ubisoft didn't own were up.

[idle falcon]

I'm just suprised something as harmless and uncontroversial such as making sure that your money isn't metaphorically burned, has turned into something this controversial over it

[brisk sparrow]

if SKG specified online singleplayer only games then people here would have less issue with it

[swift star]

Analog videogames: making errant marks in an animated flipbook. 👴

[brisk sparrow]

but in its original and current form it does not

[swift star]

[pliant helm]

And a really basic business equation will tell you that the cost of getting Ferrari and BMW to let you use their cars in your game can't be covered by the money coming in from <50 active users.

But yeah, the problem with vague language is that wild ideas become valid criticism.

Quick! We need to drag grandpa out of the retirement home! Pong isn't running on my Windows 11 computer!

WE WERE PROMISED A PLAYABLE STATE!

[idle falcon]

It also was said that it wouldn't grandfather in games

[pliant helm]

Right, but that's the problem with a petition.

You're not dictating law to politicians.

[blissful imp]

i'd just watch josh strife hayes video on his 2nd channel. imo he's had the best and most sane/humane take on everything. https://youtu.be/jF-IXeX1hYk

[round bolt]

Yep, Josh did a good job

[swift star]

I've never seen so many supposedly intelligent people fail to read. Love Josh.

[blissful imp]

HOLY SHIT SPECTRUM JUST NOW CAME BACK ONLINE FOR ME.

[idle falcon]

Real quick im still confused from earlier, how would someone reasonably think that it would require this with the massive WOULD NOT

[pliant helm]

Nah, I'd be a lot meaner about it. No one should have to put up with shit flinging gibbons who don't stop harassing you for almost an entire year over a political dispute that frankly doesn't matter.

[tight bramble]

The big problem with vague language is that just like the screenshot says, politicians love an easy win. They would capitalize on that vagueness to benefit themselves, their backers, and their agenda. I saw it every fiscal year in the army. That hole in the language would give an inch but be pulled a mile.

[round bolt]

If all it takes are some vitriolic users to make someone go against something out of spite then we are entering in political tool territory.

We don't want x to happen, send some internet weirdos at him.

[idle falcon]

I think it escalated to the point it did over the mountain of drama in the past, such as DMCA'ing someone for making for lack of a better word, a shitpost about something that COULD be in the game

[pliant helm]

And if you're enough of a clown to trust the opinion of a stranger about a stranger using heavily edited footage harvested over years, you're nothing to me.

[idle falcon]

Well no nimble, I came in here to get a perspective and his view on the situation by reading the backlog in #news

[wet storm]

I like Josh because he agrees with me and personally have a nemesis list of peoplewho disagree with me

[serene valley]

You can say one thing but with the rest of the wording it would still seem you mean to accomplish the opposite, would be my guess

[round bolt]

Lol

[idle falcon]

The opposite of blindly trusting others

[idle falcon]

Pardon me then, I am not that good at getting a point or message across accurately in text

But uhh good chat, Ill be hopping off

[pliant helm]

Yup. SKG is way too vague in some points and adopts the stance of 'nah, it wouldn't do that, trust me bro' in others.

[wet storm]

Josh makes a fantastic point

That I made the other day

[pliant helm]

Demonstrating the people who made the petition don't understand how petitions work.

[wet storm]

We're sibling geniuses like that

If Thor tomorrow says "After given much consideration actually SKG is pretty based, go vote for that" this chat would turn like a biblical miracle

[spice dome]

where is that even from? not the eu initiative

[wet storm]

And if you disliked SKG you'd be a social pariah

[tight bramble]

If he did. The mov would just call him more names for "caving to pressure" or "saving face" or whatever, it wouldn't stop.

[serene valley]

Idk I'd wanna hear his reasoning that made him decide otherwise first

[brisk sparrow]

people dont want him to say its good

they want to be mad

[wet storm]

I'm talking about people changling their minds not trolls

[round bolt]

Probably due to there being controversies that exist outside of the stop killing games situation.

Even though most are bunk

[winter sierra]

i have no care or opinion for skg i just dont like seeing thor be harassed for something he talked about 10 months ago :<

[tight bramble]

Ah yeah the smart ones would stop and think.

[winter sierra]

im a ferret stream person xD

[brisk sparrow]

only got brought up again because it wasnt (and still might not tbh) get enough signatures

[serene valley]

Heck, there's multiple people in here who disagree with Thor and who did sign it... Idk what you're implying about people being some sort of pariah for disagreeing with Thor

[spice dome]

personally I don't give a flip what they say on skg.com. The initiative has one requirement, leaving the game in playable state

[opaque raven]

i have no care or opinion for skg i just dont like seeing thor be harassed for something he talked about 10 months ago :<

[wet storm]

I'm came here to lurk game jams and remained to interact with streamchat because it's fun

[tight bramble]

Wait hold on......did dude just show up, stir shit, say "well thanks -shrug-" and tip out the door?

[brisk sparrow]

more common than you think/hope

[serene valley]

Happens more often than you'd think

[wet storm]

I did exagerate a tad. I myself signed it

Haven't been yelled at too much

Just a bit

But momma taught me manners

[tight bramble]

I wonder if that person has a MASSIVE following in the 1.5 hundred sub range that he'll post some manufactured ragebait to.

[blissful imp]

just to share this for anyone that maybe hasn't seen it. Ross has said that as of now SKG is neutral and if it fails its not because of Thor. https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxB-clvyD6nVaTptT8cpyRB-WFgfPWm5mA?si=Nlbij5qDJk72lcWw

[brisk sparrow]

good on him

[pliant helm]

The mean twitch streamer is not why your dumb initiative fails.

[wet storm]

My only request to level headed people is to larp that Thor did turncoat, see if you'd keep your opinion of SKG, and then do some introspection

[blissful imp]

Sadly like twitch clips can only be a minute long.

[brisk sparrow]

but it shouldnt have had to be said

[serene valley]

So merciful

[wet storm]

I did that. If Ross went against it I'd get a big foam finger glove that said "Hater #1 of AF" and wave it around

[tight bramble]

I have a feeling it is too little, too late. It's good he has said that. But the other videos will still be up from the other drama channels, the damage is done, and the shit posters won't go away.

[brisk sparrow]

agreed

i think it blew up way quicker than he was expecting as well tbh

[wet storm]

That's ambiguous

He didn't say Thor did nothing at all and he was wrong

He said the damage is undone and if it fails it's no longer due to that

Very different things in case someone's wondering

[blissful imp]

there's a reason why they're called shit posters. because they're shit.

Also i wouldn't blame Ross for the death threats and swats sent to Thor. Ross didn't tell people to do those things. those people are just internet losers.

[serene valley]

That's making it sound like "we can stop beefing cuz we managed to gather signatures through the beef"

[tight bramble]

It would have been better if he came out right away and said "seriously don't just rage at Thor. Like seriously don't pull that shit, I stg." But he didnt. He basically did a press run about the initiative and it being around thors neck. Idk how I feel about this yet.

[wet storm]

Maybe to you

To me it sounds like "the damage is undone and if it fails it's no longer due to that"

[brisk sparrow]

better he do it now than after it fails IMO

[wet storm]

I don't see Ross as a grifter

The same way I don't see Thor as a grifter

Assuming second intentions is rude

[blissful imp]

my point is. he didn't tell people to send death threats and so on. i'm sure he didn't expect it to get THAT bad.

[opaque raven]

I'm going to paraphrase a bit but

"We neutralized any kind of that Thor did to the campaign with our last video, at this point if it fails it's not due to him"

[wet storm]

Assuming Ross abused the drama to get signatures is about the same level of agressive thinking that Thor is an industry shill that only cares about his games

Neither are true

Heck there's a venn diagram intersection of agreement between the two

[opaque raven]

Honestly this sounds so bad, it's such a drama farm

[wet storm]

Hot take: it's only like this because of the previous drama

[blissful imp]

i've seen people call Thor a plant not a shill.

[wet storm]

The lesson here is to never play hardcore wow

[wet storm]

I've seen both

But you're right plant is more common

Industry ficus

[brisk sparrow]

with league players but thats a whole different thing that is well past done and no need to reopen

[blissful imp]

i was about to say industry fungus because thor likes mushrooms.

[wet storm]

If you're gonna play Hardcore WoW do it in secret

Under an alias

[blissful imp]

industry fungi

[wet storm]

Industry portobello

[round bolt]

Every takeaway I've had from hardcore games is that I don't need to play those modes.

[serene valley]

Amen to that

[wet storm]

The only hardcore games I play are classic roguelikes

I like the risk

[opaque raven]

This is not even close to "we are at peace, sorry for the community causing chaos, but let's focus on the campaign and it's not Thor's fault"
It very explicitly said that they managed to bypass the "damage caused by Thor to the campaign"

[wet storm]

And they're built around it

[opaque raven]

I can't...I can't do this anymore...

[tight bramble]

No i know. I agree with you, and I hope it comes out to be that way.

[opaque raven]

I'm out, have fun you all

[wet storm]

Thor did say he doesn't wanna talk to Ross 'cos of his community

[brisk sparrow]

at least in multiplayer. ill give singleplayer ones a shot

[wet storm]

Imagine if someone said this about Thor

[wet storm]

Do the larp it's fun, imagine someone said "I'd talk to Thor but his community is a bunch of rabid toxic people that shit up my streams"

[outer cobalt]

people are extending this to f2p games too

[wet storm]

It's really shitty to say this

[round bolt]

For what it's worth I have not found this sentiment about skg anywhere outside of this community

[serene valley]

The recipe is the intellectual property of the lemonade stand

R&D went into that

[brisk sparrow]

that do be a many hour old reply from a default profile

[serene valley]

Also, the lemons could have an agreement attached to only ever be used for your specific lemonade made in your stand

[round bolt]

A lemonade stand is a terrible example

[wet storm]

Terrible example

[fading cradle]

That one did stand out to me haha

[wet storm]

It's more like someone sold me a lemonade juicer and after a couple of years torpedo'd it because it ran it's course

It's like people don't think about these whacky zaney analogies and just spit whatever the primitive reptilian brain produces

[pliant helm]

you bought a movie ticket and are upset it doesn't give you unlimited viewings.

[round bolt]

It's more like somebody sold you a printer that requires proprietary software updates in order for it to continue functioning on a monthly basis.

[wet storm]

I just finished watching the video from JSH, his take is EXACTLY the same as mine goddamn

[wet storm]

Don't let the marketplace of ideas die

[round bolt]

And then one day the company shuts down, ending your service.

[wet storm]

See, Q.E.D.

Horrible analogy

I bought the DVD, not the movie ticket

[fading cradle]

It's more because back then, people bought physical games. With the cartridge at all

[pliant helm]

No you didn't. You bought a movie ticket. You bought a service.

[wet storm]

And it got exploded with lasers because I didn't read the fine print

[opaque raven]

It's a bunch of adults creating drama, I'm not build for this. Those weird people that go on Twitter, twitch and here and just try to create chaos or give insanely childish arguments they are not 12, they are not 9, they are old, they are adults, this is insane

[round bolt]

And the thing is that example is even worse.

[pliant helm]

You can't buy a movie ticket and complain it's not a DVD.

[wet storm]

Twitter is a cesspit, a troll feeding ground

[pliant helm]

If your point was that the movie ticket needs to clearly indicate it's not a DVD, you'd have a point.

[round bolt]

You may as well say "imagine if there was a law that allowed me to call you a poo poo head"

[opaque raven]

And if there is a single one of those above 30 they should be ashamed of acting like that

[wet storm]

Yes, I can, because it's sold as a DVD

[pliant helm]

more like a human centipede with no head.

[pliant helm]

It's not though.

[wet storm]

It is

It's sold as a product

WIth a buy button

[pliant helm]

As are most services.

[wet storm]

and the part that calls it a service is a fine print hidden, on purpose, on an EULA

Saying this is right is downright anti-government pro-corporation speech and it's insane

[wet storm]

???
Services have a subscribe button

[pliant helm]

You want the government to stop you from buying games you don't like.

[opaque raven]

As I said I can't anymore, I would rather play League and Dota2 at the same time thn deal with this again

[ionic sleet]

? the lemonade stand is a perfect analogy of the multiple things that go into making a game and ownership of said parts

[fading cradle]

and the thing is, people think that just like physical games, people don't want that digital ones have a hidden self-destruct button. It's not a subscription

[late bane]

Are people here Pro SKG or anti

[wet storm]

It's mixed

[pliant helm]

You are entitled to the service for the lifespan of the service.

[wet storm]

No, I want corporations to stop misrepresenting their products and stealing them afterwards

[ionic sleet]

I assume we agree with the sentiment but not the actual stuff said in it

[blissful imp]

the funny thing is that The Crew 1 is playable rn. the community for The Crew 1 modded the game to make it playable again. https://youtu.be/CL84wfJoVIU

Also Ubisoft put out an offline mode update to the Crew 2 2 months ago. https://youtu.be/JtX3oXj9yng

[wet storm]

Do not assume my intentions

Ask if you must

[outer gust]

There are people with opinions on both sides.

[kindred sedge]

My opinion on SKG

[wet storm]

This bombastic speech is cringe

[kindred sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/scott-the-woz-bottle-throw-gif-15151802411467249625

[opaque raven]

Aaaaaahhhhh 🔥

I'm dead

[wet storm]

revives you

[pliant helm]

Wonder how long it'll take either UBISoft or Ferrari to issue a cease and desist.

[wet storm]

Mr Bones Wild Argument

[opaque raven]

Nooooooo let me go!!!

[kindred sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/skeleton-meme-tiktok-im-dead-fall-gif-27054202

[spice dome]

oh look, the initiative has lied to us. How are they able to mod it functional if, I quote the initiative, "very often publishers ... implement extensive measures to prevent the customer from repairing the game in any way."

[pliant helm]

If it was about labeling, why isn't that the thrust of the SKG initiative?

[earnest spire]

no wonder they dont mention it anymore

[pliant helm]

Why the vague language and hand wringing about 'playable states' that actively invite weird interpretations?

[mellow wind]

What is SKG?

[ionic sleet]

it was designed by a person, and im being nice here, that has no knowledge regarding the intricacies of said subject

[pliant helm]

Start Killing Games.

[frosty socket]

Ubisoft just made Crew 2 offline playable themselves, the modders saved Ubisoft the money of doing it themselves

[wet storm]

Idk, I did't write it, but I conjecture it's from the point of not allowing art to be actively destroyed over shoddy licensing

[pliant helm]

Shrug.

[wet storm]

Like why are you even arguing?

[pliant helm]

All art eventually dies. What makes video games special?

[lilac apex]

is there really no way to save games from serves going down and companys keep their copyright? could there like be a contract that gives the orginal company all rights to reclaim the ip at any point and whatever 3rd party that wants to keep it alive signs it?

[mellow wind]

What? Why?

[late bane]

What be the result of SKG passing

[earnest spire]

debates

[pliant helm]

No one knows because that's how petitions work.

[lilac apex]

even if it does pass nothing will change most likely, but it wont

[wet storm]

EU lawmakers are required to analyse it and either see if it's worth it or not

[ionic sleet]

I recall they already passed it over once about a month ago

[blissful imp]

this is SKG CLEARLY

[pliant helm]

And if you're still reading this at this point, this is why you shouldn't trust people online.

[opaque raven]

Bye

[wet storm]

Can you not troll people asking normal questions?

[wet storm]

I was gonna say dreamworks but I forgot

[pliant helm]

I do love these people pretending Thor ruined the petition.

[ionic sleet]

whats the rule on links here? is PCgamer okay

[wet storm]

Ya sure

[frosty socket]

idly reads chat while preloading MechaBREAK

[ionic sleet]

https://www.pcgamer.com/games/uk-government-says-it-wont-change-the-rules-on-publishers-taking-videogames-offline-after-selling-them-we-have-no-plans-to-amend-existing-consumer-law-on-digital-obsolescence/

[pliant helm]

mechabreak deez nuts.

[blissful imp]

yes.

[round bolt]

I wouldn't say he's solely responsible.

[ionic sleet]

likely when stuff ramped up

[pliant helm]

That's how politics work though. You're not entitled to the loyalty of your viewers no matter how great you think your petition is.

[lilac apex]

nah he didnt ruin it but I do think he was alittle out of line the way he talked on stream about it, but he apologized already

[golden latch]

Well the uk is distinctly not the eu

[ionic sleet]

understandable

[frosty socket]

actually, serious subject change as a question, anyone else play the playtests for MechaBREAK?

[pliant helm]

Thor's been impressively polite for someone who's had his reputation dragged through the mud by profiteers and gossipers and his community harassed for north of 10 months.

[round bolt]

Did anyone say the inverse?

[outer gust]

Chill.

[frosty socket]

oh. very much

[blissful imp]

Did people miss the clip i linked earlier? do i need to share it again? Ross literally said AT THIS POINT FORWARD SKG is neutral and its not Thors fault if it fails.

[ionic sleet]

Yea I would have blown. thankfully Chat helps keep calm

[pliant helm]

So Thor couldn't have killed the initiative. They just couldn't find a million people to sign a digital petition.

[hazy storm]

Calmish

[pliant helm]

If anything Thor's negative press helped the petition because a certain chunk of his community would still agree with it.

[frosty socket]

or makes everyone's brains reboot from saying something completely outta pocket

[ionic sleet]

Also I remember some talk here about verification for it

[blissful imp]

Especially considering people are saying he's now a Lolcow.

[pliant helm]

And it's a petition, not a vote so people who disagree with it are meaningless.

[wet storm]

Ah right, that's the UK side

UK's no longer in the EU, they're doing their own thing

[blissful imp]

Although Reddit was saying that during the Classic WoW incident

[spice dome]

now that's skg I'd support

[pliant helm]

That community of people will call anyone a lolcow.

[outer gust]

There are people coming into the discord to have legitimate, rational discussions & to speak about the matter. Acting like you have to them is not welcoming or kind.

[wet storm]

This could very much be how the EU petition develops

[round bolt]

I said that because up until now it seemed as though there was a complete refusal to accept any potential influence at all in the SKG situation on his part.

[outer gust]

Please either walk away or change the way you are approaching them.

[lilac apex]

Here in Australia in 2022 we updated our law so company's can't have unfair terms in their agreements and if you have little or no ability to negotiate your terms you fill out a doc and the government will take over for you. It's one of the very few wins this country has done.

[indigo wadi]

That's uk

[ionic sleet]

Yes Yes its been said already

[wet storm]

Isn't Australia the one where the government sued Steam to have refunds and now the entire planet has steam refunds?

Or did I mandela effect?

[lilac apex]

It is yeap

[opaque raven]

What is a "grifter"?

[wet storm]

ɐᴉlɐɹʇsn∀ ssǝlq poפ

[outer gust]

Do not shorten the words to bypass block.

[round bolt]

I would say a grifter is anybody who is seeking something in an ulterior manner.

[wet storm]

Ew

[lilac apex]

If you are sold something designed to break right out of warranty that is a crime and you can get a refund if you want to go through the effort

[indigo wadi]

He was out of line for insulting Ross, hid position on the initiative is fine

[lilac apex]

most people take the loss cuz its not worth the hours but its there incase

[wet storm]

That's it yeah. Say, offer, propose, defend A, while you're especting B, maliciously

At least on the context of the internet

[tame estuary]

I cant recall the details but we have very strong consumer laws a lot of the world seems to just not have.

[spice dome]

@outer gust btw, do mods see if someone attempts to send a message that is blocked by automod?

[round bolt]

Yep, in the context of content creation that is essentially what I mean.

[opaque raven]

I mean, I tend to ask bcs many times what Google says can different from the very fluid internet slang

[frosty socket]

yes, they do

[outer gust]

Yes

[ionic sleet]

that works for all discord servers

[outer gust]

We see all

who has the meme

[ionic sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/justin-timberlake-stare-current-mood-gif-4160811

[pliant helm]

Australia and EU.

[frosty socket]

also, nw i'm curious how yall have the multicolour names... asumming that's a nitro related thing or something

[golden latch]

Id say its very much the idea someone that lies and does things with ill intent to get what they want

[golden latch]

https://tenor.com/view/watching-you-ill-be-thepolice-gif-14664377

[spice dome]

3 australian dollaridoo millions

[outer gust]

its the one of me using the eye nose eye emoji

[blissful imp]

there's a lot of grifters online. especially in media atm. i'd recommend watching this series by Th3birdman. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkbODR_gyOj9eOv0NBqGMWiSeDV_b4oB8&si=ZgHN8yeFke7tWgkm

[brazen drift]

Was almost hoping that link would be a rickroll

[round bolt]

That thumbnail has one of the red flag words

[lilac apex]

If only Australia could fix some laws to protect us against overseas investors owning our road, power, water, mineral, houses and at this point government

[round bolt]

One of those words I see and I wonder if the person making the content even knows what it currently is anymore.

[wet storm]

An example of what usually people mean by grifter in the internet is like,

Imagine Mr Burns starts talking about sources of electricity. He'd likely point out flaws on coal, solar and hydro, going into great lengths to say that they're terrible.

Not because he believes they are, but because he owns a nuclear power plant

[tight bramble]

"Several people are typing"

[wet storm]

In the simpsons tho he's mode direct, when he literally blocks out the sun to prevent people from using solar. But you get the idea.

[mellow wind]

So based on my very limited understanding, some guy made a petition to make video game publishers run outdated systems to perhaps keep older games operational. I believe that costs money that publishers would rather spend somewhere else, which is where the backlash comes from? So side A wants to keep old games running, while side B wants to use that money in other pursuits? Or am I missing something?

[wet storm]

Keyboards must die

[opaque raven]

Uhum uhum
Duly noted

[dusk pine]

https://tenor.com/view/popcorn-eating-popcorn-funny-funny-popcorn-watching-tv-gif-15406698795416939620

[opaque raven]

I kinda need an emote for "I'm listening, I'm taking notes"

[lilac apex]

well nuclear is by far the best solution we have for generating power haha

[wet storm]

When this chat behaves it's hella fun. It becomes a marketplace of ideas and I'm a shill for that

[blissful imp]

https://tenor.com/view/typing-several-people-are-typing-gif-15407184

[frosty socket]

https://tenor.com/view/noted-notes-take-notes-gif-4790188

[wet storm]

I like our solar array 'cos it means we don't pay the light bills anymore

But I agree. Thorium plants are dope

[frosty socket]

I have a Gif, but not an emote i can use due to lacking Nitro

[brazen drift]

We got a bunch of solar panels. In summer we generate more than we use

[tight bramble]

Facts lol

[wet storm]

Do you get credit for it?

[opaque raven]

📝 is close but not there yet

[wet storm]

We have the same deal. We generate more on summer, so on the other seasons we don't pay due to credit

[lilac apex]

once again Au messed up so bad and we have to many solar pannels now we overload our grid during the day and have not enough power at night

[hazy storm]

In Ontario we use hydro

[spice dome]

where are the batteries to equalize the grid?

[brazen drift]

Not yet. There's a bunch of companies suing each other lmfao.

[hazy storm]

Pretty reliable

[wet storm]

Solar accumulators are tough

They need replacement parts that are non-renewable

[lilac apex]

coal stations are desgined to run at 100% the whole time but they can't anymore and in the process of reducing the output during the day then increasing it at night creates more pollution than if it ran at 100% the whole time

[wet storm]

Like lithium

[outer gust]

Seattle is a majority hydro as well

[blissful imp]

if only Discord had a way for people to Gift Nitro.

[tight bramble]

I bet if the human race just started clapping in unison it would created enough wind energy to offset that 🤔

[frosty socket]

a reliable way

[wet storm]

I mean technically you could chemically renew the used up lithium and stuff but that's expensive

[outer gust]

in fact ~77% of all energy in WA is hydro

[wet storm]

Economics

[lilac apex]

batterys cost more than the panels and installation combined so no one wants to buy them

[frosty socket]

I also don't accept gift nitro anymore, because i will forget to hit cancel by the end of it

[hazy storm]

Oops looked it up. Hydro is 25% of our energy. The rest is a mix of nuclear, natural gas, wind, and solar

[outer gust]

the next biggest being nuclear at 8% and wind at ~6%

[wet storm]

Hydro is dope

[blissful imp]

that's what i meant. like Twitch gift subs and youtube gift memberships.

[golden latch]

The issue is ip law mostly and mandating certain practices that seem impractical especially for indie games but would also be forced to follow those rules or just not sell in that market.

[tight bramble]

Ooo that's an idea. A 1000 db sound cannon. Yeah that'll work. Why not lol

[wet storm]

You know a hydro hero? Brazil

(brazil mentioned)

Over 50% of the power of the entire nation is hydro

[lilac apex]

the dream

[mellow wind]

I think its the Columbia dam? I dont think Wenatchee's provides power that far. I could be wrong

[outer gust]

brazil is cool

[spice dome]

the amazon river?

[wet storm]

Not just that, the entire country is rivers

It used to be more but now solar and wind are gaining speed

[wet storm]

I hear it's really hot

[hazy storm]

Speed of light you might say

[frosty socket]

Have a Pun Bell

[blissful imp]

uhh

[wet storm]

Eyyy

[wet storm]

I shall cherish it forever

[tight bramble]

Oh, oh! How about the entire planet replaced with 3 gorges dams.

[wet storm]

Make the moon wobble lol

And they say AI is bad

[lilac apex]

hydro using beach tides is also meant to be very sustainable and great for power, its just cost and maintenance

[hazy storm]

That's the name of my next band

[spice dome]

right, decibels are logarithmic. 1000db would be more than the biggest nuke ever

[wet storm]

Interesting, I always thought the prospect of using sea water would damage components

But I read that like 20 years ago and even then it was written 50 years prior

[frosty socket]

yeeeep

[lilac apex]

if sealed and maintained its not so much an issue

[outer gust]

Seattle City Light (Seattle has a municipal power company :D) owns Ross Dam, Diablo Dam, Gorge Dam, Newhalem Dam, South Fork Tolt, Cedar Falls, & Boundary Dam.
It also has a treaty with canada to utilize High Ross.
It also has contracts with Columbia Basin Hydropower to utilize Main Canal, Summer Falls, Priest Rapids, Potholes East Canal 66, & Lucky Peak.
It also has contracts with a few other companies for non-hydro power: Westpoint Wastewater, Columbia Ridge Landfill Gas, & the Condon Wind Project.

[wet storm]

Diablo Dam

Don't go in there

[lilac apex]

but the cost to build is greater than coal so they dont

[outer gust]

its on the skagit river.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_Lake

[tight bramble]

Don't threaten me with a good time

[wet storm]

I hear it has 16 basement levels

[outer gust]

Diablo Lake is G O R G E O U S

[wet storm]

That's paradise right there

[lilac apex]

plus the Au government has this really cool thing they do where they build power stations on tax payer dollar over 20 years then sell them off right before election time to pad the number of profit while in office

[indigo wadi]

I demand fire

[mellow wind]

Oh thats really cool! If the Condon Wind Project is what I think it is, I used to drive by the windmills all the time!

[blissful imp]

i hear the loot at that place is legendary.

[wet storm]

Hopefully to different companies

[lilac apex]

and then we get to be the leading county in power bill costs cuz its owned by another country yay

[wet storm]

Not to step into politics too much but I like privatisation when it's like, to different businesses so they can compete

Best power grid I've ever seen was in the UK

[outer gust]

What do you mean by this

[wet storm]

I lived there for a decade and had a power cut once

[tight bramble]

16 basements?!?!? That's a lot of home theaters. Need a big nas for allat.

[outer gust]

I will call smokey the bear. Answer very carefully.

[indigo wadi]

Diablo = devil = fire

I want lake of fire

[wet storm]

What if it's the devil from Dante?

Then you demand ice

[paper furnace]

adelaide is doing pretty well with solar and wind farms, granted they are pretty small

[tight bramble]

Fire = smores = yummy

[paper furnace]

they had a couple days in summer where they were 100% renewables

[spice dome]

isn't there one in turkmenistan or such?

[paper furnace]

which is a good start

[wet storm]

Yes but it's farts instead

A natural gas pocket that got set on fire

[blissful imp]

this possibly

[lilac apex]

the new Zealand government owned all its power stations when my dad was assisting designing them back in the day and they were built to last 80+ years and had future growth and 4 levels of redundancy's built in

[wet storm]

Oh damn maybe Myke did mean Dante's devil

It's too cold and smores are tasty

[outer gust]

Ew ai

[lilac apex]

but in Au its just slap together the cheapest shit to get the job done now

[tight bramble]

-farts-
"A bit more choke, and she would've started"

[blissful imp]

Hey. At least i screenshotted it and i didn't generate art or whatever.

[outer gust]

i know im just being silly

[wet storm]

AI is cool

[lilac apex]

thats great lets hope they lean into it more. Here in Au our power bill is $200 more a quarter than it was last year at this time

QLD*

[wet storm]

AI helped me lose weight and get fit

[blissful imp]

its cool tech and can be used for good, but Giant corporations are using it for evil reasons.

[paper furnace]

I think the plan is to start adding to the other states' grids once they're consistently at 100%

[wet storm]

It's a glorious feeling to be out and about and people have to sweat and pant trying to catch up with you because your exercise routine paid off

[wet storm]

It's a tool, like a hammer. It's made for nails, not heads

[lilac apex]

well we do have the spend lots of money for the future government in atm

lets hope they get it done

[wet storm]

Jesus that's a lot

200 bucks a month for power?

[lilac apex]

3 months

[wet storm]

Ah ok

[lilac apex]

its $530 for 3 person home for 3 months

[paper furnace]

gas is insane, though

gas is

ridiculous

[wet storm]

Gas as in propane or gasoline?

[paper furnace]

both, honestly

[wet storm]

:c

[paper furnace]

but a lot of australian houses have gas heaters

and bad insulation

= thousands of dollars on gas heating

[lilac apex]

We dont have any heat or aircon

[paper furnace]

yeah, they're the expensive ones

we have them, but can't run them half the time

[lilac apex]

its just kitchen, lights and computers/tvs

oh and we also have like 6k solar panels

[blissful imp]

i mean... you can use hammers on heads, but you'll go to jail for Assault.

[lilac apex]

so who know how much it would be if we didnt have half the roof as solar

[tight bramble]

Oh, hey, I got a movie idea: The Day it Rained Aircraft Carriers!

[wet storm]

Carriernado

[paper furnace]

or knees

[tight bramble]

Nah you're just curing headaches it's all good

[lilac apex]

permanent cure

[wet storm]

Now you're thinking like a tech billionaire

[tight bramble]

Just throw a brick through a window with a business card for windows repair taped to it.

[wet storm]

If you do it with a water bottle you can claim you were hydrating people

[lilac apex]

billionaires do enjoy a braindead target demographic

[wet storm]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-monkey-throw-monkey-bottle-monkey-throw-bottle-gif-18261736954649180075

[wet storm]

And they say AI is bad

[blissful imp]

Don't take that seriously i'm just shitposting

[tight bramble]

Freeze it first. Hydrate the masses AND fight global warming!

[wet storm]

I'm surprised gippidy drew that considering it hates violence and ripping off movie posters

[blissful imp]

Oh for the love of god. right after i posted with my reply.

[tight bramble]

Pure, steaming poetry! Oscar nominated!

[lilac apex]

AI is to powerful already. the next gen are gonna be gooners throwing money at ai gfs

[wet storm]

That's already a thing

We're in that gen

[blissful imp]

that's already happening.

[wet storm]

I'm afraid that next gen might be where it pops

[lilac apex]

not the whole gen right?

[wet storm]

AI is too expensive

[lilac apex]

please say no

[wet storm]

I told it to add more carriers

[blissful imp]

i mean shit. the highest viewed youtube shorts video is an AI Pug saving people video.

[tight bramble]

Nah just half a gen. The other half is double cream. Then add cocoa nibs on low heat, until homogeneous.

[wet storm]

My prediction is that AI will have the same effect as like Uber and Netflix and all those online SaaS models. It'll get more and more expensive (gippidy is $20 and right now it's assisting me with so much it became a business expense) and start to drop ads

[lilac apex]

welp we are doomed then

[blissful imp]

https://tenor.com/view/more-kylo-ren-adam-driver-screaming-star-wars-gif-17734637

[wet storm]

Like "How do I make chocolate cake" and it lists brands in the ingredients as ads

[tight bramble]

Absolute flames. Id by ticket!!

[opaque raven]

Can we just give in to our AI overlords already? I'm done

[lilac apex]

never give in brother

[opaque raven]

It was a fun ride but enough is enough

[lilac apex]

keep bitching online with me forever

[wet storm]

Bake in the sun and then you'll be well done

[golden latch]

Make horrors of the imagination ai cant replicate

[wet storm]

Dear lord the more I look at it the more my cortisol spikes

[opaque raven]

Its 8am and it's already so hot today

[tight bramble]

I only understand eagle screech....

[blissful imp]

Actually its more of a race to the bottom on price. only super expensive models are from Antropic rn. OpenAI has dropped their prices recently.

token prices btw, not the service fee to use them.

[opaque raven]

It's like 67 eagles

[wet storm]

It still runs on investments tho, no?

They're companies with a burn rate

[opaque raven]

Will reach 81 eagles on the afternoon

[lilac apex]

I forgot the reason I joined the server was cuz I was curious if the people on this server full support Thor on SKG or what their opinions are

[tight bramble]

Oh i wish it was 67 eagles here. It was 93 eagles earlier.

[lilac apex]

got lost in the Au government hate

[blissful imp]

OpenAI from what i know aren't open. which is hilarious.

[opaque raven]

81 is the absolute peak of summer hot here

[wet storm]

How the heck did they get money

Omg it's all founder money

[tight bramble]

When I went to basic training in south Carolina, it was 112 most of the summer

[blissful imp]

i'm probably not understanding what you said btw. i'm not a business person.

[wet storm]

Burn rate is how startups measure how long they have until they go bust

'cos they usually get a massive investment to start, and then up their expenses like crazy

Then either it flips into making a profit and stabilizes, some bigger company sees potential and buys it, or both

OpenAI operates on a loss

OpenAI lost 5 billion dollars in 2024

3.7 on revenue

[lilac apex]

Also I wanted to complain about the heartbound text speed or am I to stupid to find where to make it apear faster

[placid plover]

🍞

[golden latch]

Dont worry we mostly agree with the spirit of skg just not the method i think this is a good time to use the momentum of the movement to show devs people care about and value this so devs can use it to improve their games in the future the honey attracts better then vinegar method. Incentivizing the change rather then mandating but thats me in a game devs discord who has helped many aspiring game devs.

[wet storm]

Bread 👍

[blissful imp]

i'd imagine this is for companies on the Stock market correct? i'm pretty sure openai became a closed company. Also Chatgpt is closed source.

which again is funny because openai's name is "OpenAI"

[placid plover]

bread 👍

[wet storm]

No that's usually even for ltds

Partners just sell part of their share and enroll someone as a new partner

Kinda how law firms do it

[mellow wind]

Ive lived in Washington all my life and this is my first summer living in oklahoma and its already too hot

[wet storm]

I mean, the mechanics, not the process

[blissful imp]

Again i'm not a business person. i don't wear a suit so i know nothing with this stuff.

[golden latch]

If its not in options maybe make a #heartbound-ticket and ask if there is a plan for one or request if they can implement one.

[tight bramble]

BREAD FOR THE BREAD MODS!!!!

[placid plover]

bread 👍

[opaque raven]

Also, there is the thing with the angle, the way the ozone layer works when you are closer to the poles it gets thinner iirc so the UV and general solar radiation is stronger here (which is great for solar panels but not so much for people during summer)

[wet storm]

Me neither I just happened to work with startups and got lucky some dude explained it to me

The startup imploded so take that with a grain of salt and do your own research

It was wild too, the owner sent all the money to France and dissapeared

[tight bramble]

Oh i didnt think of that. I wonder what the data would say about skin condition and any ailments in comparison.

[opaque raven]

Also when I go to expeditions to the north we have to put a lot of protection so the sunlight that reflects on the snow and ice doesn't hurt us from below

[wet storm]

Well now I want some honey toast

[blissful imp]

my research aka Really Fancy Search Engine.

[tight bramble]

I was eating, and you have no idea how fast I moved to grab my phone lol

[blissful imp]

Gemini is really good

[placid plover]

😂

[tight bramble]

Yummy 😀

[blissful imp]

i don't pay shit for Gemini btw

free

[wet storm]

Nice

What's the rate limiting like?

for the free tier

[blissful imp]

i'm on the free tier.

[wet storm]

Does it not switch to another model or just block you somehow?

[opaque raven]

I mean, since everyone here knows it's like that we all take a lot of care so skin conditions are in check I guess. And it's only for 3weeks/y anyway

[wet storm]

after use

[blissful imp]

idk. its usable and gives good answers imo.

[wet storm]

Nice

Gippidy on the free tier uses a good model for a good 10 or 20 messages then switches it for his dumber cousin until some time passes

[tight bramble]

Oh ok well at least the awareness is there 😀

[wet storm]

The basic paid plan ($20/mo) is also rate limited but much less so

I haven't hit a block yet

I oughta give Gemini a try tho

[tight bramble]

Maybe i should get a death metal band on fiver to record it with metal vocals and drop-d tuning.

[lilac apex]

I'm glad to hear. Hopefully whoever attempts the next one has more support. I would love if Thor could make a video just saying places to improve and no opinions just honest facts. Would probs end all this drama shit for good too I would hope.

[golden latch]

Yeah giving devs and customers a positive even if it fails is a great plan

[placid plover]

I tried to get into metal once, its not my style lmao. but that one doom 2016 song rip and tear is good

[opaque raven]

Ok, I'm going to the supermarket
Anyone need anything?

[golden latch]

Can you get soft tacos shells?

[outer gust]

hey chat

[golden latch]

👀

[frozen sonnet]

Coffee please

[mellow wind]

chunky peanut butter

[frozen sonnet]

Hello!

[opaque raven]

Uhum uhum 📝
Taco shells
Peanut butter
Coffee

[tight bramble]

Yeah it can be intense. Im only saying since "bread for the bread mods" is a jest on "blood for the blood god" from 40k.

[golden latch]

👋 rest well

[lilac apex]

Thor is best when giving cold hard facts so use that for the greater good this time

[placid plover]

bread

[frozen sonnet]

My hero!

[placid plover]

Nice

[opaque raven]

Uhum uhum 📝
Taco shells
Peanut butter
Coffee
Bread

[mellow wind]

Chunky peanut butter tho. gotta have that crunch

[golden latch]

Just for you optimal game play

[opaque raven]

I will see, not even sure if we have a normal one
I assume that I never looked for it

[blissful imp]

2.5 Flash is really good imo. And fast. And cheap token wise. Also it can analyze youtube videos because Google owns youtube.

[opaque raven]

Ok have Nutella tho, if you are interested

[mellow wind]

thatll work

[blissful imp]

that screenshot is Gemini 2.5 flash analyzing a video

[jolly prism]

https://tenor.com/view/no-pixels-cant-see-ben-chang-community-ken-jeong-gif-17361588

[opaque raven]

What do you even do with peanut butter normally? Like put on ice cream or something?

Toast maybe

[lilac apex]

dogs lick it I hear

[opaque raven]

Idk

[blissful imp]

hey man there's nothing i can do about that 🤣

https://tenor.com/view/champoy-el-risitas-kek-issou-etu-gif-17837830

[opaque raven]

What

[mellow wind]

sammich. or just spoon it in

[lilac apex]

is a new article I remember seeing

[opaque raven]

It's it like too sweet?

And sticky

[outer gust]

This is not appropriate, please don't discuss that kind of thing here.

[lilac apex]

awww

[opaque raven]

Felix, what do you want from the supermarket?

[lilac apex]

is this whole server fun policed?

or just streamchat

[wet storm]

The whole server. It's fun policed 'cos there's kids around

I could be 15 years old

[golden latch]

[lilac apex]

I even went and found the article link too : (

[golden latch]

We are 13+ that is correct

[lilac apex]

ahh yes 15 year olds have never seen or heard of such things

[golden latch]

We wont be the place to show them

[blissful imp]

you can't talk politics, can't be a PoS duckwad, can't say certain words like the F word and so on.

both F words btw.

[mellow wind]

how sweet is the peanut butter you have??

[golden latch]

At that point just #rules

[blissful imp]

but that's less fun...

[lilac apex]

can we say people should eat our whole ass though 🤨

[golden latch]

🙃

[golden latch]

I can also say i could eat a horse

[lilac apex]

and I would support your attempt

[frosty socket]

indeed

[blissful imp]

like Forsen?

[golden latch]

Who is forsen?

[blissful imp]

Also this popped up when i typed "South Park Horse"

https://tenor.com/view/horse-basketball-ballin-10000-points-south-park-gif-4075120864311151029

[golden latch]

Horse be ballin’

[lilac apex]

hey you cant post that what if the kids google south park horse and find the other one

[blissful imp]

Streamer on twitch. been around a while. look up Horsen.

or don't

[golden latch]

This seems like a landmine

[azure glen]

That horse is amazing!

[kindred sedge]

Horse ballin!

[golden latch]

That seems fine but related to forsen seems like the important part

[opaque raven]

So far so good

[mellow wind]

ah. it seems that im not good at this whole "googling" thing

[opaque raven]

📝
Bread
Taco shells
Peanut butter
Coffee

[lilac apex]

does anyone have a link to a video I can watch on the issues with SKG where they are doing it for trying to make a more successful attempt next time?

[mellow wind]

Yippee!

[tight bramble]

No streamy-weamy? 😞

[jolly prism]

I don't believe they (Ross) ever said that but maybe I have missed something.

[lilac apex]

I'm looking for a 3rd party who doesnt care about drama just the end goal of protecting games to the best compromise

[jolly prism]

How would a 3rd party know what he wanted to do with the initiative more than Ross himself?

[lilac apex]

You are missunderstanding me. From what I gather there are some issues with SKG that Ross is/was unaware of and I want to actually learn what they are.

[golden mirage]

Ross is aware, he just doesn't care.

[lilac apex]

There has to have been someone who read through all SKG and made a video pointing out what can and can't work with only positive intentions

[golden mirage]

He's done interviews with other content creators who have pointed out some of those things and his response was basically, don't care, thats for the politicians to sort out after the initiative passes.

[hazy storm]

Thor did that and he got massive amounts of hate for it

[lilac apex]

could you link me any of that

[golden mirage]

Last one I saw was Gamers Nexus.

IIRC, he had one with Josh Strife Hayes too.

[jolly prism]

TL;DR based on the discussion going on here for the last few days - it's too broad (all videogames), while being too vague, potential limitations on game developers (especially indies), mistrust in law makers not shitting the bed even more, IP/copyright related potential problems, nothing might happen at all even if it is passed as an initiative, etc. Not aware of a succinct video with what you are looking for

[lilac apex]

I hear alot about IP/copyright and that is a clearly overlooked issue

[hazy storm]

Not overlooked so much as glossed over because its a murky issue that most people can't be bothered to truly understand

[lilac apex]

It's also different for every country

[golden mirage]

To be fair, copyright law is such a gordian knot of weirdness that not even expert lawyers always understand it.

[lilac apex]

There will be a way for companys to keep IP and address the issue of losing games

[hazy storm]

And that's where a friction point is. People ASSUME there will be but its hand waved away like it will magically sort itself out in a way that makes everyone happy

[golden latch]

Only if there are new laws put in place for many countries the “defense” laws are the major stifling one in this aspect

[hazy storm]

And the realists and jaded folks are shaking their head "nope"

[lilac apex]

New laws are always slow to keep up with changing times

[jolly prism]

The realist also say "let them try and see", just because something is complicated does not mean it can never be improved

[placid plover]

bread 👍

[golden latch]

I want to see that change, back in the day things like starwars and dnd did this by selling the rights to create content such as books and games around the ip but as laws changed that practice stopped.

[placid plover]

you know I was kidding on the bread part, but you know what respect 🤣

[lilac apex]

I don't understand why it is a bad thing for the uk and eu government to be aware and start discussions about the topic though?

[hazy storm]

Its like someone setting offon a cross country road trip by pointing at the sun and yelling EAST with ten bucks in their pocket. Hoping that people will be nice enough to give them gas money or free food along the way

[lilac apex]

It would still take years from the first talks to even be addressed seriously

[split tulip]

dnd does allow 3rd party content still. It's part of the core business. They sell the rule books and others can sell campaigns using dnd content

[golden latch]

They sell the books themselves the rules are part of the old business model which with the new laws cant be copyrighted and protected with ip protections

[hazy storm]

Didn't they try to enforce copyright a few years ago

[golden latch]

And failed

[shy mist]

Would people here whose concern is vagueness on IP/Copyright be happy with a petition that doesn't require someone with deep deep pockets paying a bunch of lawyers to almost draft a law tho?

[split tulip]

They did try to do a silly. Now they release most of it under creative commons

[golden latch]

Many of the things made back in the day that wasnt the core team that was copyrighted directly back then is not enforceable and is no longer in dnds ip

[lilac apex]

I feel like you guys don't really understand that it has to be vague enough that the government can mold the argument into whatever laws they deem fair.

[golden latch]

Thats the impact of such things they cant use things in sole books cause the writers own the Content not the company even if the were outsourcing their ip. Same thing happened to warhammer 40k and sonic with ken penders

[split tulip]

It's a bit of a grey area if you can really copyright the rules, cause you can't copyright a fact. However, you can copyright the presentation of facts which is what protects the Guinness world records books

[golden latch]

But is that gonna be fair to the customer?

[jolly prism]

More than it is now? Yes, that is the point of the initiative. The concerns here were related to developers.

[golden latch]

Its a toss up if they actually will make in favor

[lilac apex]

It will never be fully in our favor the governments run off billion dollar handouts and donations at this point. All we can hope for is something

[hazy storm]

I think that assumes governments will be able to make intelligent decisions about a niche issue

[opaque raven]

Quick thing, a little off topic but hear me out
Have you peeps ever heard of a game called "I Wanna be the Boshy"? One of the bosses is actually a product we have here

[jolly prism]

It's a toss up between make in favor in varying degrees or "nothing" happening. Going directly against the clear spirit of the initiative is not how it works.

[lilac apex]

Obviously they can't but they have the power to make the decisions and you have to make do with the broken system the best you can

[golden latch]

I mean working with devs instead would also achieve this goal

[jolly prism]

Who working with devs?

[hazy storm]

Exactly the point. And the best way to make the best of a broken system like this is to be specific about what you want to happen and not let them make decisions out of ignorance

[split tulip]

tho that's a bit difficult now that most devs would be terrified to speak out due to fear of retaliation

[golden latch]

The customers, us, you know your in a game dev hotspot where many are fledgling devs wanting to learn and grow

[hazy storm]

Look at crypto and how many governments have dropped the ball

[lilac apex]

Governments will work with the popular opinion against what the handouts they risk losing. Its been that way for a long time.

[golden latch]

Yeah the vitriol has done a lot of harm atm

[jolly prism]

Sure, but that will not potentially change the laws or the view on this issue as a whole.

[jolly prism]

There was plenty of time for them to speak up before it blew up again recently.

[exotic locust]

Speaking of blowing up again ...

[lilac apex]

specific leaves them no room to twist the laws in the ways they want without public backlash

[golden latch]

But you could work on a campaign of changing the ip law to help devs achieve exactly this without repercussions cause they gave their software to a 3rd party and could loss their ip if they dont defend it. That would remove a huge hurdle for devs cause then it would create a market for companies to sell their dev tools and even guides to make servers for such things without that fear and make compensation for the extra work.

[jolly prism]

You are welcome to create such campaign. Ross did what he though was best and created the EU initiative - it is still something.

[hazy storm]

Yes. And current SKG is as far from specific as can be

[golden latch]

There are more options then just make the government mandate it and or hope they do it the way you want

[lilac apex]

we are trying to convince people who are old, ego driven and have no understanding of specifics but they understand you paid for something there is some level of protection required

[jolly prism]

Then you are free to explore those options.

The main idea here is that no matter it's flaws it is still widely considered as having way more potential for good rather than bad.

[hazy storm]

Saying "then you do it" when debating the merits of SKG isn't good debating decorum

[golden latch]

I have been for decades 😊 im a vote with my dollar person i see the opportunity to use this movement to be a great spring board to fix this issue but im content with my position

[jolly prism]

Read that conversation again.

[golden latch]

They are correct

[jolly prism]

Saying "it could have been done better, so let's not do anything with it now" is simply not a good point

[lilac apex]

SKG can't mandate anything they have 0 political power, at best the movement lets governments know that it is an issue people care about

[jolly prism]

People will disagree with you here, it can indeed happen.

[golden latch]

Im literally saying build on this situation not matter the outcome

[proud lily]

And saying "If you can do it better, you do it then." isn't either.

Two arguments clashing at the peak of argumentative irrelevance.

[jolly prism]

You have said "instead" above, but it is possible you meant building on the initiative.

[lilac apex]

disagreement just makes a stronger argument when the issues are thought through and resolved

[golden latch]

Making good will with devs the target of this situation who are afraid and concerned about the outcome is in my view a very worthwhile decision no matter the outcome of this

[jolly prism]

While your comment here has added great value 😅

[proud lily]

Two peas in a pot ey?

[golden latch]

It is a separate thing from the initiative but can use the momentum from it so the “instead” is warranted not as a dismissal but as a way to show more things that arnt the same or following the same path.

[jolly prism]

Definitely, but where are these devs? I have not really seen this point represented - outside of commenters here talking mostly in hypotheticals.

[hazy storm]

Where have you looked

Have you visited other dev communities to ask

[golden latch]

We are, this server is filled with indie devs literally many leads and members of even major game devs come here to talk and discuss topics

[round bolt]

Sometimes the skg initiative feels like the slowest fourth quarter of a game of basketball of all time

[jolly prism]

We are in for a long month

[golden latch]

We literally had a member of vintage story a minecraft inspired game that is trying to help hytale devs talking here yesterday

[lilac apex]

I don't see an issue of indie devs selling off the IP when its no longer profitable and they want to abandon it.

[jolly prism]

Isn't Ross more than open to discuss these issue? If we are talking specifics here, he wanted to talk even to Thor regarding his issues.

[lilac apex]

probs not anymore after all the drama

[golden latch]

If you want to make change then show them you care is how we try and act here so i try my best to support them in what ways i can when i can, if you want to ask about concerns about longevity ask and let them know about those concerns so they can think about it for the future of their games. I appreciate the conversation weve been having and i hope even if it seems small more games see the concern from this initiative and start to support this idea of games lasting (im an archivist and preservation in my thing)

[opaque raven]

Do we have any Dune lore expert here at the moment? I have a few questions of something I saw on the stream now

[tight bramble]

What's up?

[lilac apex]

Ross is just some dude giving it a go and now it's gotten a multitude more attention then he ever thought and its got to be overwhelming

[opaque raven]

The possibility to manufacture spice, is it reasonable?

[proud lily]

Yes, but his talking to Thor immediately got very ugly.
Thor voiced his original opinions and Ross response and "invitation" was rather aggressive and emotionally charged.

[opaque raven]

Outside arrakis

[jolly prism]

I would say that Ross is definitely riding the drama on purpose to raise awareness (which can be off-putting to some) but Thor did have some really hostile things to say about both him and the initiative so, eh 🤷‍♂️ maybe Ross thinks The end justifies the means

[split tulip]

I do belive that happens, but way later in the books

[tight bramble]

Like in real life, or in universe without the worm larvae?

[golden latch]

They tried and failed many times cause you need the worms and the specific temperature and environment the world has

[flat moat]

Not outside Arrakis as Spice has a life span

[jolly prism]

Thor voiced his original opinions in aggressive and emotionally charged way too.

[opaque raven]

In universe without the worms
Or even bringing the worms somewhere else and manufacture a farm of sorts

[proud lily]

I made this comparison before but Ross initial response was less in the faith of "Let's talk." and more "Come over here, let me tell you why you're wrong."

[golden latch]

Way later in the story it becomes a thing but remember this is a dream of paul who is currently high on spice viewing all ways to the golden path.

[opaque raven]

I mean, I assumed something similar BUT this universe is crazy good on genetics right? So I assumed also in biology, flora, fauna, etc, the amount of energy and human effort to make a farm would for sure be reasonable

[proud lily]

That all happened as escalation. In the beginning it was rather constructive and the emotions only came as he was harassed more and more.

[tight bramble]

Arakis was an ocean planet in time long passed. The worms were brought to the planet. Spice production ends up being an off world synthetic thing after the golden path is realized.

[jolly prism]

True. But since Thor said both Ross and the initiave are disgusting, they can eat his ass and all other kinds of things I fully understand why Ross responded in that way

[opaque raven]

Oh no no, forget the game, just the original books and story

[golden latch]

Thing of it as every server is a different dream path

[proud lily]

That all happened after Ross response.

[lilac apex]

wait did we all listen to the same videos or am I missing something? Ross tried and fail to contact Pirate while pirate was clearly a rude and unhelpful person when he should have been constructive ??

[golden latch]

Like i said much later it does but atm he is just hallucinating the possibilities

[proud lily]

The timeline is skewed here since Ross cuts/what the internet cut together misconstructs the events.
"Eat my entire ass" wasn't immediate. That happened after already days of harassment

[opaque raven]

Oh oh, wait, those who put the worms on Arrakis were aware of spice production? Like, was this planned?

[jolly prism]

I just find the* tone* argument hard to accept when it comes to Thor. All of the various dramas have one thing in common - how Thor addresses issues.

[opaque raven]

Hmmmm did it end well?

[lilac apex]

was this harrassment on stream because of the SKG or just the other previous drama and Thor is scapegoating?

[golden latch]

Yeah thor shuts down after getting harassed and others not connected to the debate are lambasted

[golden latch]

Go read the books

[tight bramble]

No the worms are an invasive species. Brought to the planet by "something", long before human settlement.

[split tulip]

tbf I'd shut down after getting enough death threats too

[opaque raven]

It's 9 books and I already have a backlog waiting for me (Metro / Roadside Picnic)

[golden latch]

Audiobooks on dune while you read metro 🤔

[proud lily]

Roadside picnic is lovely.
And short at that, probably 1-2 session book.

[opaque raven]

I actually had a very bad impression of audio books for some stupid reason but I recently got the Old Man's War and it was FANTASTIC

[golden latch]

Its been a pattern with Thor and its hard to work around after it happens having any bad actors cause any good ones to fall on deaf ears can be very frustrating

[flat moat]

Old Man's war is amazing

[golden latch]

Yeah good readers are the key for me

Some voices i cant stand

[opaque raven]

I got it by recommendation, I have no clue where I'm getting into. I mentioned Metro and got different people recommending me Roadside Picnic so I just got it on Amazon

[hazy storm]

If you like John Scalzi he has a very deep library of good books and mini series

[golden latch]

Though i will say when i listen i cant remember the story as well as reading

[proud lily]

Because of SKG. This was before WoW drama, all the big drama in general

[hazy storm]

The Dispatcher audiobooks are very good

[lilac apex]

I just dont understand why Thor didnt read SKG correctly the first time before burning it down

[opaque raven]

That's the thing, I had 2 bad experiences and assumed that "audiobooks are not my thing"

[tight bramble]

World war z by max brooks audiobook is great

[opaque raven]

I loved old man's war, and I got the Ghost Brigade soon after I was done

[proud lily]

It's the universe the stalker games are based on.
Although other than the universe the works dont share much.

[hazy storm]

The Martian and Dresdrn Files audiobooks are my favorite productions

[jolly prism]

True but this is dismissing all the other points raised against him. To put in bluntly, are all arguments invalid because some people are assholes and sent death threats? Nobody is forcing Thor to be combative (the whole Ross and initiative are disgusting, eat my ass, etc.). When people keep broadly disliking what you are saying and quadrupling down does not work then maybe it's not the kids who are wrong.

[lilac apex]

were you guys able to see the harassments cuz at this point im losing trust in Thor. I was still a fanboy back then and I missed seeing any of it

[jolly sky]

That's the thing. Poorly written language and sentences are easy to "misinterpret"

[hazy storm]

All you need to do to see the harassment is lurk in this channel for a week. People come in here itching for fight on a regular basis

And those are mild examples

[opaque raven]

Uhum, uhum 📝 duly noted

World War Z
The Dispatcher
The Martian
Dresden File

[lilac apex]

right now and since the wow drama yea but before wow I never heard a bad thing other than someone moaning about little things

[opaque raven]

I saw the movie and it was....meh, okayish

[jolly sky]

Of course we saw it. It happened for days, and this renewal of it is just another amount of it

[split tulip]

Not saying it's invalid, only that is has a chilling effect on discussion

[opaque raven]

Idk if it will ruin the book experience since I already saw the WWZ movie tho

[tight bramble]

Yeah max distanced himself from it, saying it isn't like the book at all

[split tulip]

the entire online space is already extremely hostile to devs

[tight bramble]

The book is WAY better. It's written like a memoir

[opaque raven]

Are they also sci-fi / fantastic reality?

[hazy storm]

The movie has nothing at all to do with the book. The book is a series of short stories all from different perspectives of the zombie way

[tribal canyon]

Definitely funny seeing people on twitter just resorting to screaming when Thor corrects their misinformation

[jolly prism]

Is it? thought it was always aimed at specific devs (AAA) and even there people are mostly hating on the company/leadership.

[lilac apex]

Just so I understand. Thor reacted to SKG and tore it down in a video. Rosses fans sent hate. Pirate then talked shit on stream about SKG. Ross tried to "contact" pirate with no success then nothing for 10 months?

[opaque raven]

One thing that I LOVED about I Am Legend was those extra animations about short stories around the world. If it's something remotely similar I would for sure love it

[golden latch]

No people hate on inbie as well cause on the time it takes for development for example

[earnest mirage]

and continues with some answers of the FAQ. The original language (english) is poorly written for some of the answers and way more precise e.g. in german. And people are like it's this and i'm like no, whoever translated it added a thing or two, in the original it's this.

[jolly sky]

Also, you don't really get to tell someone how they should behave considering the absolutely mountainous levels of abuse that Thor was buried under. A simple nuanced opinion that has knowledge behind it isn't worth that.

[opaque raven]

Like covering political problems between countries or how some religions deal with the problem

[golden latch]

Also the whole no man sky debacle didnt help

[proud lily]

Yea, those definitely get more hate, but indies aren't excempt either.
The "us vs. them" player vs. devs mentality still runs strong.

[indigo wadi]

Or ppl can stop being aggressive and have actual, nuanced discussion.

But nah, let's keep hating cause it's the cool thing to do.

[opaque raven]

Oh frick...I can't believe I'm putting more books on my backlist...

[split tulip]

individual devs have gotten threats over game delays

[hazy storm]

The Martian is basically accurate to the Matt Damon movie. Dresden Files is a 13 book series (more coming) about Chicagos only wizard detective for hire and how he slowly gets OP over time

[proud lily]

That's about the most correct timeline yes.

[jolly prism]

There are some really shitty indie devs to be far - just as there are really shitty people anywhere. Broadly speaking I have always seen more positive vibe towards indies. But if your small indie game needs 10 years to come out then yeah maybe something is wrong (especially if it also raised money).

[jolly sky]

Thor said his piece after the 2 videos on Youtube he made, and peaced out for 10 months. Up until Ross made a hit piece to gain more attention.

[proud lily]

However at the point they initiate "talk" bridges were already bright aflame

[indigo wadi]

Or understand that life happens which slows down production.

[opaque raven]

Oh cool, been a while since I read anything with magic on it

[golden latch]

And im glad you have indie has been working hard to become better so that helps a lot especially the transparency aspects

[opaque raven]

I'm trying to watch Frieren by recommendation but I'm not big with anime

[golden latch]

Ever read manga?

[lilac apex]

Did Ross himself ever harass Thor before trying to directly contact him?

[tight bramble]

Blame!

[golden latch]

Yeah when its 1-10 devs if even a fraction of the team has life happen huge delays can occur (geopolitics effecting translation for example)

[opaque raven]

I had 2 complete ones:
Dragon Ball (when Goku was small)
Rurouni Kenshin

[split tulip]

I don't thinks it's what you intended, but this makes sound like it's okay to be hostile to AAA devs. Like they're not human. Sadly a common sentiment online

[hazy storm]

Bro Dresden Files manages to mix every magical culture, myth, and legend coherently into one universe. You have ALL THREE versions of vampires fighting alongside effing Santa Claus while Dresden rides a zombie dinosaur

Not a word of a lie

[proud lily]

Not as much harass, but as I am made to understand the "invitation" itself was rather charged. And Thor just wanted none of that after what was already going down.

[flat moat]

He didn't really tear it down, he brought up developer concerns which Ross felt was more of an anti-movement counter. Ross responded and Thor made his 2nd SKG vid. He told all the people harassing him about it to eat his ass.

Thor made it clear he wanted no part of it, he didn't like how Ross came across in his vids and didn't want to interact with him further. Then came the hate brigades and mass comment moderation which Ross Scott unfortunately got affected by.

It's practically been 10 months of no call back to SKG, the drama was effectively dead until Ross' recent SKG update video after the movement reached 480k signatures in the EU petition where he did bring up Thor a lot and made it seem like he is to be blamed for the petition failing (he's not, the movement is poorly advertised and worded)

[round bolt]

Peak

[opaque raven]

Sweet lord ok ok ok, I'm adding it to the list ☀️

[hushed vine]

honestly what's funny to me is that people are leaving comments on every popular youtuber and asking them to cover SKG

[lilac apex]

People have definitely been getting sick of being taken advantage of my AAA games and the most upset ones make the most noise unfortunately

[opaque raven]

I also recently read Dracula (Bram Stoker) but honestly I didn't enjoy it very much, it's kind of a narrative mess

[split tulip]

It's OK to be upset at the company. But people are legit sending threats to individual devs like artists when their favorite game is delayed

[golden latch]

They have Nosferatu, dracula, and asian jiangshi vampires

[flat moat]

People need to vote with wallets. All AAA means is that it's a wealthy studio with lots of money putting out slop

[hushed vine]

unfortunately nobody understands that concept. every call of duty that comes out nowadays always sucks and nobody learns their damn lesson, and instead they complain and review bomb.

[opaque raven]

Carmilla was a WAY better book about vampires for me thn Dracula

Weirdly enough, since it was 20years before the whole idea of organizing the lore into one

[indigo wadi]

Madden

[golden latch]

im doing my part

[hushed vine]

that too holy crap

madden

my god MADDEN

[jolly sky]

Then argue with your wallet and don't call developers pieces of shit or make outward calls for violence. There's no excuse for that.

None

[hazy storm]

Anne Rice turning hyper Christian was such a 180

[indigo wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/im-doing-my-part-serious-stare-gif-11979677

[lilac apex]

Well to bad Thor you don't get to be overly critical and at some point plane wrong and then refuse to talk it out with the person who made it. That's how you fix the issues

[hushed vine]

why is it so hard for people to just.... not buy a videogame from certain developers.

[round bolt]

I already vote with my wallet.

It's shockingly easy

[indigo wadi]

CONSUUM

[hushed vine]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JmVjdYE7qY

[round bolt]

Except for that time I tried to refund helldivers and they were intentionally putting it on hold until the fiasco was settled

[golden latch]

Cause the ideas are cool and sound but the fear of missing out (think about playing og call of duty black ops) when its no longer popular and “fun”.

[lilac apex]

Argue with you wallet means nothing anymore when there are people who will buy slop and spent 10 times the game cost on in-game transactions

[round bolt]

Yeah that's the fun part, I already vote with my wallet because I don't even have to try to do that. And it doesn't really make much of a difference when other folks consume slop all the time.

[jolly sky]

Tell us what parts you think Thor got wrong.

[lilac apex]

Mobile games designed for whales prove the concept of "don't buy bad practices" wrong

[golden latch]

Help them understand if you know someone you can help dont feel like its not important

[opaque raven]

I have a copy of Interview with the Vampire here, it's sooooo good. And the movie is also amazing
Not sure about the new series tho

[hushed vine]

like if i buy "team call of battle duty doom man 2" and i think it sucks, why would i have any reason to buy "team call of battle duty doom man 3" or any other game made by the same developer?

[split tulip]

It means you can go elsewhere. There are more to games than call of duty

[lilac apex]

There was no cash shop in d1, d2, d3 but there is in d4

And it will get worse and worse

[golden latch]

There are to many games out there already i can spend my entire life playing games that a triple AAA never touched

[indigo wadi]

RMAH says hi

[golden latch]

But im also a solo gamer so that makes a huge difference

[opaque raven]

It's so crazy to see the Blood and Gold book followed by Lord Christ: Road to Jesus

[flat moat]

Imagine saying someone hates the movement in the same comment inviting them to chat because you believe their opinion is wrong.

That brooks no case for an argument and is pretty shitty.

The movement should have had a clearer initiative rather than using generalized language and wanting law makers to make the specifics up. Now it'll take multiple years for your wanted changes to go through if it even passes into EU parliament as a talking point and doesn't get denied! You could have had the online components for predominantly SP games made optional within a year!

[round bolt]

With various mods I could probably keep playing Minecraft for the rest of my life.

But sometimes you have to come up for air

[golden latch]

Or doom

[hazy storm]

Dude anne rice released The Breaking of Sleeping Beauty which was basically 3 book erotica series

[round bolt]

Oh yeah

[golden latch]

Or half life or skyrim

[lilac apex]

Most of it bro. Ross specifically said that he wanted a solution that wouldnt effect a companys profits. It's in Thors video but he refused to read it out loud. It's also in a bunch of Thors posts under other things he has highlighted

[round bolt]

At this point skyrim's map is a little too familiar for me

Same as half life, although Gmod maps are interesting and keep appearing

[earnest mirage]

i think you may you forgot the real money auction house disaster of d3? which make them close the whole auction house and make all items bop in response?

[golden latch]

Get ready for skyblivion and skywind

[hushed vine]

hi action dan :)

[jolly sky]

What Ross specifically wants is an impossibillity. Next.

[round bolt]

Cmon dan

[opaque raven]

@tight bramble I have another Dune question!!
Is The Voice something genetic? Like a vibration that only those on the bloodline can achieve or is it something anyone can learn?

[lilac apex]

Delusional take

[flat moat]

How is my take delusional? explain

[tight bramble]

It is a taught technique through the bene gesserit. Before Paul atraides it was only taught to the royal family and bene gesserit sisterhood.

[lilac apex]

Yet we all want it and we need to figure out how to get it. Crushing the first attempt instead of trying to fixing it is 100% wrong of Thor

He's smart help us out

[hushed vine]

"us"

[indigo wadi]

He didn't crush it. Stop acting like he has

[golden latch]

Crushing

[opaque raven]

Isn't the emperor afraid of it? Sounds insanely dangerous

[lilac apex]

Ok yeah he didn't but he didn't help. I'm just disappointed. Like why wouldn't he help make it better

[jolly sky]

Bringing up very reasonable points against how SKG would even work is not "crushing it"

If one person poking holes in the Initiative could supposedly bring it down, it won't last a second against further scrutiny that it would have to endure.

[indigo wadi]

It's not on him to help. He brought up points that he disagreed with. Stop acting like he personally hurt you.

[tight bramble]

Yes he is. The Voice is like a superpower, known throughout the universe.

[lilac apex]

Have any of you rewatched the video recently? I feel like I'm having a stroke

[hushed vine]

i mean i personally don't agree with the initiative simply because i don't trust politicians. all of the other points made by both thor and ross, whether true/ideal or not, could be made mute if some government moron words things in a shtity way :)

[indigo wadi]

What video?

[flat moat]

@lilac apex I'd appreciate you telling me how my comment was delusional and narrow it down. I saw a lot of Ross's comments and they changed quite a lot when they happened before and after being auto-modded

[lilac apex]

Thors from 10 months ago

[indigo wadi]

Again, which one?

[flat moat]

It's not his job to help an EU initiative!

[indigo wadi]

Oh, yes I did, what about it?

[indigo wadi]

Especially since Thor isn't EU

[jolly prism]

It's not his job to shit on it either. People can dislike him for that.

[lilac apex]

I rewatched them all and it's pretty plain to see Thor is glossing over parts and picking things to pull apart or misunderstanding

[jolly sky]

The man brought up IP and Copyright law, which is something that the Initiative will be going up against whether it knows it or not. And from everything I've seen, it really doesn't seem to realise that.

[lilac apex]

And that is the best part

[hushed vine]

once again: politicians will F it up no matter what

[indigo wadi]

He's looking at it from a dev perspective. Stop parroting failed points against Thor.

[hushed vine]

like has the initiative not once considered that politicians will mess it up? like i'm serious when i ask this

[flat moat]

He brought up valid concerns and only shat on it after he and the moderator team ended up harassed by some people purporting to be SKG supporters. It was never for no reason

[indigo wadi]

Sounds like you're just here to argue for no reason than to stir up trouble. People have been doing it the past week. It's tiresome.

[lilac apex]

Ok sure group me in with the "haters" then because you refuse to look at the issue from all sides

[jolly prism]

People are mad at me so I will be mad at them so people will be mad at me for being mad at them. Not exactly a helpful cycle and the reason does not change the fact.

[golden latch]

Its something thats been discussed here a lot but not from what ive seen elsewhere

[indigo wadi]

Well, that's exactly what you're doing. You're purposely parroting the same failed "points" that they have.

[hazy storm]

Pot. Black

[flint yarrow]

Nobody owes any apology or clarification here either. People can have different views you don't agree with.

[lilac apex]

Nah you are wrong

[flat moat]

We support the underlying message that supports consumer rights but not it's current iteration. It will not be likely to pass and thus effort is wasted

[golden latch]

chat just nay saying is gonna make this very difficult which i believe isnt what we want

[fluid dome]

[hushed vine]

i personally see both sides. people are tired of their games getting shut down, but at the same time there's no easy way of fixing it without unintended repercussions/consequences.

[lilac apex]

I have been in here for hours asking things I didn't know and making myself as informed as I could be

[fluid dome]

Morning

[round bolt]

NGL this sounds like a method of simply shutting down a claim without any handling of it.

[indigo wadi]

Cool country point. Great nuance.