streamchat

[flat moat]

It's like one of those cartoons where they fall off a high rise building and become paper thin after landing flat on the ground or leave a massive person shaped hole

[turbid flower]

Yes. And if you click it. It takes you to the message with the tweet in question

[hasty grail]

@faint rapids

[exotic forge]

I think Thor's opinion is valid but do you think he would've been better off just ignoring the SKG initiative?

[dusk pine]

it hops up to a post from Thor that has the tweet, complete with a link to the post on twitter

[dusk pine]

thank you

[kindred holly]

I think the "easy win" comment bothered me the most out of all of this. My guy, legal processes are complex! Again, no idea how different the legal process is for EU compared to the US, but saying that is SUPER naive at best.

[idle hill]

No, because people would beg him for an opinion if he didn't.

That's why he did his analysis and put out two videos on the topic in the first place, because people approached him for an opinion

[untold seal]

Reading the comments, they think he is just an innocent dev that has been bamboozled by Thor and his shenanigans!!!!! Oh no!!!!!

[teal zodiac]

i was being kinda sarcastic, people been doing this kinda thing for a while

[kindred holly]

Oh, my b

[flat moat]

11 months ago, every 5th or 6th TTS was about the initative. 3 hours into stream, there'd be auto messages for him to check out the movement.

If he didn't, there wouldn't be extra scrutiny but also, there wouldn't be so many signatures

[kindred holly]

Lol, I follow Chet, that man is SUPER headstrong!

[hasty grail]

any other thoughts on it or has it run its course for the night?

[jagged vapor]

On brighter sides, I saw people talking about Spaceballs earlier

[teal zodiac]

Hell ye

[untold seal]

And you alao hope they bring good people in

[hasty grail]

https://tenor.com/view/spaceballs-confused-huh-what-camera-gif-14972584060005342825

[teal zodiac]

i just saw it for the first time

EXTREMELY good

[jagged vapor]

Noice

[teal zodiac]

i probably only got like 20% of the references tho

[kindred holly]

Reading your realtime reactions was really entertaining, lol

[jagged vapor]

You did well for the first time 😅

[teal zodiac]

This is the type of movie that deserve going into youtube and looking for a 2hrs videos of the references later

[kindred holly]

Oh hell ya

[hasty grail]

also having watched a lot of other movies from the time period

Alien for one

[jagged vapor]

Any idea when the second will be gracing us?

[hasty grail]

im guessing in 2 years

we have Naked Gun in the meantime

[kindred holly]

Omg, you think this is good? You should see Airplane! It's super funny, but has references for films that go back to the 50s!

[jagged vapor]

Airplane movies ❤️

[kindred holly]

Classic comedy film, but there's so much I'm still learning

[exotic forge]

low chance of actually making a difference so its just gamers wanting to make some noise

[kindred holly]

Dude, I had no idea there was another on coming out! I found out yesterday because of a reddit post, lol

[hasty grail]

https://youtu.be/1oFDrlQU-cw

[ripe minnow]

I miss Gordon

[kindred holly]

This is glorious

[hasty grail]

goddamit, i love vortex as a mod manager....

[teal zodiac]

This is my galactic ninja chicken that i rolled around during StB

[hasty grail]

working on getting a BG3 modpack downloaded and one of my drives is full. forgot to "apply" new staging area during early setup

[teal zodiac]

dont judge

[hasty grail]

ive seen worse

ive done worse

[faint rapids]

What's updog

[hasty grail]

as a max height femRoe, i do have a suggestive glam

[hasty grail]

not much, whats up with you?

[teal zodiac]

my paladin is probably the one i like the most

[faint rapids]

Grinding the last of my nuggs

[teal zodiac]

thats a reminder that i need to buy more dino nuggies

[teal zodiac]

From all the classes that im working to put on 60 so far the only one i disliked was Monk. The rotation was weird, idk, i wasnt having a lof of fun, but on the ff14 discord i was told that its normal at this level, Monk gets really interesting on 70

[hasty grail]

lets see if i remember things right

i main PLD

SMN was my magic dps and thus SCH was my healer

SAM was what i was trying to level but i think i got RPR to max before hand

and DNC was my ranged dps

[teal zodiac]

i'm running SMN right now, its really fun to change pets and etc, super simple but really cool

[hasty grail]

general info for ShB

they do away with class quests in favor of role quests

tank, physical dps, magic dps, and healer

you will need to do one of them to complete ShB

[teal zodiac]

oh, im free trial, so StB is my limit

[hasty grail]

got it

[teal zodiac]

its less about money and more about the...hmmm

[hasty grail]

you will change your mind once you hit the end of the patch content

[teal zodiac]

if i pay i will feel the need to play, and every day or weekend that i dont play i will feel kinda bad

[hasty grail]

is all im going to say

[teal zodiac]

there is a certain pressure involved for me, makes sense?

i like the freedom to play whenever i want

[faint rapids]

Anyone else play no man's sky? I just got it today

[hasty grail]

i know the story beats and i know how the patches for StB turn out

[teal zodiac]

im on....Darkness Below MSQ now, just for you to know

[faint rapids]

Very first base location, lined up my starfighter with that planet

[teal zodiac]

nice! i never played but seems like a pretty fun game to mellow up, put some music and chill while playing

[hasty grail]

NMS is a very weird open world game

[faint rapids]

Seems like a great game for duos but I'm solo for now

[teal zodiac]

i thought it was a very solo/lonely adventure

[faint rapids]

I procrastinated the "build a base" objective to make sure there was sentient life on this planet

There are animals and travelers (npcs)

[tight bramble]

Because of all the ambient noise, NMS killed my headset back when I used a wireless one. Battery would drain like nothing else.

[faint rapids]

It is a pretty lonely game, only the base I'm standing in is mine, where my fighter is parked is a npc outpost

[kindred sedge]

Man I wish I could get my self more interested in FF14

it looks so damn cool, but I just can't find any kind of hook outside of it looking cool

[golden mirage]

It helps if you have friends to play it with.

[kindred sedge]

That is true

[hasty grail]

ARR starts slow and Heavensward is really cool

wrong reply, but close enough

[teal zodiac]

i was going to say the exact opposite, lol

the one i see it you can just run solo everywhere on the story, have fun at your own time, no need for groups or guilds, its basically singleplayer with a lot of people around you

and stay away from Limsa after midnight

[hasty grail]

group up for raids or roleplay

[kindred sedge]

I did try it since they have a F2P option. It was alright I just got bored quick

espcially all the READING

I DONT LIKE READING

[jovial sandal]

yeah, the opening is a very slow burn

[teal zodiac]

i very recently went into discord groups bcs im doing MINE a lot, and it really needs coordination even for the simplest bosses

Raflesia my beloved.....

[kindred sedge]

I know that later on story stuff gets voice acted but I just couldnt

so many woooords

[golden mirage]

yes, thats mostly true for the MSQ, its very solo friendly. Outside of that though, it helps to have friends to play content with, run roulettes, work on relics, achievement hunting, etc.

[kindred sedge]

and im the type that does want to read everything I can if possible

but only if its like, not a wall of text or multiple chat windows poping up every couple of seconds

idk, I feel I might have adhd

[hasty grail]

sooo due to some rewrites and the devs trying to get ARR done after the failure that FF14 1.0 was, they had to cut corners

[teal zodiac]

and its a very, VERY old game, so....

[golden mirage]

I don't think thats adhd, just a preference for how you consume a story.

[hasty grail]

HW and beyond does get much better with voices

[kindred sedge]

I def felt the whole slow burn aspect of it

[hasty grail]

https://tenor.com/view/sadu-ffxiv-gif-25379045

[kindred sedge]

if I ever give it a try again I will be sure to mention it in the ff14 channel

[teal zodiac]

what i really love about it is that you can change jobs with the press of a button

[hasty grail]

all im going to say is "little sun" and not make any more mentions of the story

[kindred sedge]

I want to at some point become a monk and mage that summons I forgor the color of mage that does that. Black right?

[idle hill]

Anyone know by chance which stream it was that thor read through the SKG initiative
I've only seen the videos and I'm curious about the entire thing

[hasty grail]

Summoner summons

[jovial sandal]

summons is summoner, no color relation

[teal zodiac]

also there isnt much farm for equips and drops for builds (at least where i'm at)
You can farm for things like mounts and pets and cards....oh god the cards...

[hasty grail]

Black Mage is a back and forth while casting big spells

[teal zodiac]

i love triple triad with a passion

[jovial sandal]

black mage is beeg explosions

[hasty grail]

Red Mage is fancy dash in and dance out

[kindred sedge]

White mage is heals

that one I know for sure

I heard there used to be a blue mage, what was that?

[hasty grail]

Blue Mage is copy monster abilities to be banned from all things

[kindred sedge]

That sounds

hmm

[hasty grail]

Blue Mage is for special farms and doing stupid things

[teal zodiac]

its amazing, you dont gain spells and skills by levelling up, you need to find certain enemies on the map and copy their abilities

[hasty grail]

cannot be used in normal things

[jovial sandal]

there still is, but blue mage is a special unique case thats only useable in certain content

[kindred sedge]

It sounds like a cool concept

though I could see why its limited

[hasty grail]

for some "irregular tomes" farms, BLU will be used

[jovial sandal]

you go around collecting skills from enemies, then you can mix and match to functionially create a class

[kindred sedge]

Can it be used in open world?

[hasty grail]

ye

[jovial sandal]

yep

[kindred sedge]

Hmmmm

[jovial sandal]

but you can't progress MSQ on it

or do most quests

[kindred sedge]

But I could still make something my own?

[hasty grail]

there is a spell that you can get that halves the hp of the monster you are fighting, some exclusions will apply

[teal zodiac]

you jsut cant queue on random groups as Tank/Healer/Dps

since its bascailly....anything and everything at the same time

[kindred sedge]

Thats another big thing I want in an MMO, I want to be able to build something my own in terms of playstyle where possible

[hasty grail]

not going to get that in FF14

[jovial sandal]

like mine is usually set up to take advantage of libra, which makes enemies vulnerable to particular elements

[hasty grail]

FF14 is very much a "learn the rotation of a class" and then "learn the dance of the fight"

[teal zodiac]

at moooooost some dps can heal a little bit, but thats it

[hasty grail]

did they ever take away SMN's ability to rez people?

[jovial sandal]

nope, they still have rez

[teal zodiac]

i still have, and just used it

[hasty grail]

cool

[teal zodiac]

red mage as well

[hasty grail]

there were rumors of that for SMN specifically

i want PLD to get a rez for the funny, but thats just me

[jovial sandal]

they used to, back in the cross-class days

[hasty grail]

ive heard

ahhh the mythical 2.0 days

[kindred sedge]

Heh, I do that as an Aug evoker in WoW. That is when ever they decide to fix Aug
Keep tangent short, I run an off meta build that sacrifices a chunk of my damage for a heal that also buffs healing received

[kindred sedge]

I ment to reply to this

[hasty grail]

sooo the necromancer idea?

screwing with the forces of life and death to make a fight drag out longer

[kindred sedge]

Kinda? Aug already isnt ment to be a full dps in terms of the damage they deal. They bring a buff that gives other dps more damage. The damage that Aug does extends the buffs timer. Basically a buff bot spec that has fallen out of favor due to the devs making the main buff only target DPS players instead of any role

[teal zodiac]

there isnt muuuch theorycrafting on ff14 afaik

[jovial sandal]

there's not really builds. you'll have a little bit of debate of how much skill/spellspeed is ideal, but that's basically the extent of it

[hasty grail]

small adjustments here and there, but not much

[teal zodiac]

as was said before, its all about rotation and understanding boss mechanics
The beauty of it for me is that you can change jobs any time in 2 seconds and try something else

you are a Warrior of Light, you can be anything

[hasty grail]

i think the devs would rather assume the players can hit a goal and not balance around 3 dozen MAYBE situations

[teal zodiac]

i love the way it is

[kindred sedge]

That is something I feel I would enjoy. Espcially since I like to have more then one main in WoW

its a struggle to keep more then 2 characters geared though

[hasty grail]

all classes are balanced enough

multiple classes share gear

[kindred sedge]

eh, balance doesnt need to be "everyone good" in my eyes

its ok to have a few classes doing a little better and some a little worse

[hasty grail]

tanks, share, ranged dps share, healers share, magic dps share,

[teal zodiac]

idk until what level its like this but until 70, where i am, the Best possible gear for all classes you can just buy on a vender, using an universal currency, its pretty cool

[golden mirage]

Balance is more about every job and every combination of jobs will be capable of clearing any of the content.

[kindred sedge]

as long as they can compete and its not like a drastic diff in balance then its fine

[hasty grail]

melee dps is weird because there is 2 or 3 different sets that share

[golden mirage]

That doesn't mean every job does equal damage though.

[hasty grail]

as a pld, i heal the healer when they arent looking

[kindred sedge]

I know id be a monk and summoner for sure, but then if I were to maybe also want to be a dragoon and black mage?

[jovial sandal]

i heal the healer as a sign of disrespect

[kindred sedge]

Would summoner and black mage share armor?

[hasty grail]

ye

[jovial sandal]

yep

[hasty grail]

aside from weapons

[kindred sedge]

Okok, im guessing monk and dragoon wont though

[hasty grail]

i cannot remember

[jovial sandal]

monk is striking, dragoon is maiming

[kindred sedge]

Heavy for dragoon and medium for monk

[hasty grail]

thanks

[teal zodiac]

hmmm nah, depends on the time. Some rotations take 2min, some 5, some 30seconds. Red Mage for example needs to fill a bar of White magic and Black Magic, if you fill both on 100 you can apply a very strong combo 2 times (3 if you have another buff). So it takes a while but you explode things after the buildup

[golden mirage]

Monk is striking gear, dragoon is maiming gear

[kindred sedge]

ye those terms

[hasty grail]

ninja is scouting?

[jovial sandal]

monk and samurai share, dragoon and reaper share

[kindred sedge]

idk proper terms for ff14

[jovial sandal]

yep, along with viper

[hasty grail]

viper should have been pirate based

[kindred sedge]

ugh, so many classes

[jovial sandal]

we all wanted corsair

[kindred sedge]

I hear pirate?

https://tenor.com/view/cat-shock-eyes-out-big-eyes-what-gif-26401236

[jovial sandal]

unfortunately, it is a false alarm

[hasty grail]

Dawntrail (current expansion) teased us

[kindred sedge]

Man

I would have def played if I could be a pirate

[hasty grail]

we got viper and NOT corsair or pirate

which is dual short swords

rather than short sword pistol

[jovial sandal]

there were theories that one of the jobs that DT would add would be corsair, but instead we got a dual-wielding animal hunter, viper

[teal zodiac]

i mean....we do have marauders

[hasty grail]

you mean Warriors

[golden mirage]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. You say no, but then you're entire statement agrees with what I said.

[hasty grail]

aka too angry to die

dont forget Radio is still StB and not current content, Torsailr

rotations do change a LOT

[jovial sandal]

look at black mage, getting a new rotation every xpac

[hasty grail]

Black Mage (from what i call when i played at the end of EW) is learning a new rotation every 10 levels

[teal zodiac]

i thought you were affirming that dmg was similar to all, not the oposite

[golden mirage]

That jobs don't all do the same amount of damage doesn't really change based on where you are in the msq though.

[teal zodiac]

i read that differently

[golden mirage]

ah, alright. that happens. 😉

[teal zodiac]

on the internet??? never!!!

[hasty grail]

"roughly the same damage" ish, plus variation on current boss phase

BLM can do more constantly but they would rather greed and die over SMN who can do it anywhere

longer cast times for BLM

[jovial sandal]

the BLM turret allegations are a lil outdated now

[hasty grail]

as i said the last i played was the end of EW content cycle

[jovial sandal]

the job is way more mobile than it was in the ShB days

[hasty grail]

please correct me

[teal zodiac]

SMN can do 2 of the 3 summons gems while walking,, its a lot of freedom

[jovial sandal]

plus they can move their leylines now, so they have less excuse for turreting

[golden mirage]

BLM has a lot of movement aids that help mitigate some of its cast times so its less of a turret now.

[hasty grail]

good

[kindred sedge]

Also to any hammer wielders who are poking in they are saying Black mage

[golden mirage]

SMN is perhaps the king of casting mobility now though.

[hasty grail]

WAR does have some good hammer glams

including the windows hammer from savage EW 8man raids

unrelated

[teal zodiac]

Ninja you can run and jump non stop while doing peak dps

[jovial sandal]

because ninja needs more buttons to press, of course :p

[teal zodiac]

i really love that you need to manufacture a jutsu while fightning

love it

[hasty grail]

https://youtu.be/EcQzgMvwbT4

[golden mirage]

can't say that's wrong

[hasty grail]

what was the current status of positionals?

[golden mirage]

what positionals?

[hasty grail]

fair enough

[teal zodiac]

i wish we had an indication on the skill bar or somewhere

to say if we are on the side or back

like Xenoblade does

[hasty grail]

read the tool tip and see the note that Jocat says

[golden mirage]

there is, kind of. Look at the ground target marker of whatever you're fighting. The rear will be the open part of the circle, the flank will be the sides. If you're not a tank you shouldn't be anywhere near the front of it.

just compare where your character is with that circle and its easy to see if you're flanking or on the rear

[teal zodiac]

oh i know, but i would like a confirmation to where i am, not just visually

For example, Xenoblade, the first image the arrow is to the side, so you are on the side of the enemy when you queue the attack. On the second one is pointing up, so you are on the front

its simple and it works, its a solid confirmation of where you are

[teal zodiac]

ok, just watched, this whole video is AMAZING

isnt that the same guy from "i like girls"??

so cool

Reaper looks sooooo cool

i just need to wait 5 years for it to come to Free Trial 🙂

is JoCat considered like a cool guy? bcs so far i'm really enjoying his content but i know nothing of him

[hasty grail]

hes chill

i found him during his Monster Hunter Worlds weapon crap guides

you can see his evolution from those

it was MHW then D&D then FF14 classes for the crap guides order

[teal zodiac]

i havent really touched Dragoon yet but its going to be....weird....to make job quests with a certain person after all that

[tight bramble]

Well looky here lol

[teal zodiac]

Difficulty: Normal
Oh boy let me tell you...its way above normal

[teal zodiac]

and thanks, now i will have the Spooky Slice song on my head for 24hrs

[hasty grail]

hehehe

[golden mirage]

Its been a long time since I did it but I don't think you'll have the problem you're thinking of.

[hasty grail]

dont look up the full version

all the spoilers

[teal zodiac]

oh oh oh ok ok

[hasty grail]

most of the JoCat FF14 vids were made after around the time EW launched

[teal zodiac]

"why are you here...why are you pretending its all ok?? do you wanna a hug?? i can hug you!!!"

[idle hill]

No luck looking for it myself. If there was a VOD on Twitch, it's been deleted or I for some reason can only see VODs from up to 2 months ago

[winter sierra]

they get deleted after 60 days by twitch :/ it sucks

[idle hill]

Yeah I'm also digging through the VODs on YT, I don't know if it was a Game Dev Q/A stream or one of the gaming streams

That is, if he even kept the stream around

[jovial sandal]

fair chance that youtube would cut it off as well, since youtube only really holds on to 11h55m of a stream, unless you specially request longer from them

[idle hill]

That could be one reason

[teal zodiac]

i mean, to be fair i think its pretty impressive for twitch to even keep videos for that long

[winter sierra]

yeah but the issue is that youtube only goes till 11:55 so no real reliant way of saving the whole vod

[idle hill]

I'm just looking for the segment where he talks about SKG
skimming through VODs between July and August of last year, I don't even see the start to that segment

[jovial sandal]

the answer, though, is that he read through it a couple times on stream. you can see in the various clips floating around that the main SKG site front page changes

it was june last year. if you go into #answered-tts and search that channel before the end of last June, you get a few TTS responses mentioning the SKG initiative

the link is obviously broken, since the vods no longer exist on twitch

[idle hill]

yeahh, I can see it occurred between July 27th-August 5th

[indigo wadi]

Twitch vods last 60 days

[idle hill]

I'm aware.

[indigo wadi]

It's likely that he deleted those ones so he wouldn't be used as farm bait

[idle hill]

That doesn't make sense, because I can only find half the VODs from the whole month.

[indigo wadi]

YT vod system is also not the greatest either.

[idle hill]

Youtube's whole streaming system isn't good man
of course the VOD's won't be either

[indigo wadi]

:shrug:

[idle hill]

Yeah, nah. Not finding it on YT either
Got a 2 week gap between when the VOD would be and the video that released based on it

[indigo wadi]

Any reason you're trying to find it?

[idle hill]

Just trying to watch the whole thing

rather than focusing on a specific point, or clipped portions of the stream, I want to capture the entire analysis

[indigo wadi]

His 2 videos doesn't do that?

[idle hill]

Oh, I watched the 2 videos. I heard, however, that Khronos and chat also had some input to the discussion and I'd like to hear it from them, not just Thor

[indigo wadi]

Well strong chance are those vods aren't available anymore for whichever reason

[idle hill]

I do agree with what Thor says about SKG and how it could suck for games

also how it's not calling out specifically what's wrong with the gaming industry/licensing as it is

[indigo wadi]

The lack of an end of life plan is my guess

[idle hill]

The vagueness of that statement, "end of life plan" in the objectives, is one of the things Thor focuses on, yes

[robust galleon]

Pretty sure those vods got deleted because of chat hoppers brigading about skg. It was one of the reasons Thor made the vids while offline.
There were also a bunch of people that said Thor would go bankrupt in the six months after the yt channel got really big, so there was brigading about that too.

[tight bramble]

Yeah that's something that I have some knowledge as a veteran. Even though this is "just an initiative" and that "language will be tightened" if it passes. Politics will go out of their way to weaponize that vagueness. Happens all the time in the DoD.

[versed geyser]

I think they're still there?

[indigo wadi]

Not from then

[versed geyser]

aw

a bliz dev released a video about it yesterday. quite interesting from his perspective

[proud depot]

I can't stop doom-reading all the recent drama

help

[teal zodiac]

if you find any good drama thumbnails please let me know

[hazy storm]

On YT?

[teal zodiac]

im tired of low effort ones

[tight bramble]

Watch westin champlin videos. Or wwe matches, or robin williams stand up comedy

[hazy storm]

Viva la dirt league

[proud depot]

like the "He UsEs A vOiCe ChAnGeR yOu KnOw!"

[teal zodiac]

i mean, i care very little for the content of drama videos but i LOVE a good thumbnail

[tight bramble]

@proud depot are you from Alaska? In asking cuz of your pfp.

[teal zodiac]

they should definitely make a movie about the whole TechTown lore

[proud depot]

like of course he's not going to sound quite as deep through a lav mic in the forest vs a microphone deliberately set up to capture more bass tones a-la NPR

[proud depot]

Yes, I am. roughly 1 degree below the arctic circle. It'll get dark in August

[tight bramble]

Holy shit.....I grew up in palmer!

[proud depot]

IN THE VALLEY!

[teal zodiac]

Cool flag btw, gj Alaska

[proud depot]

I'm up in Fairbanks

[versed geyser]

wtf is that flag

[proud depot]

the best damn flag in the country is what it is

[versed geyser]

it's not symmetrical

[tight bramble]

That was submitted by a student during a contest when alaska attained statehood in 1959

[teal zodiac]

for real?? thats pretty cool

[tight bramble]

Its the big dipper constellation and the north star

[proud depot]

Its the big dipper (part of ursa major) and the north star

[tight bramble]

Get outta my head lol

[versed geyser]

what's actually the best flag in the world

[tight bramble]

This so cool!

[versed geyser]

my vote goes to

umm

Wales has a dragon that's pretty dope

[teal zodiac]

ye ye!!! i know!!! its so cool!!
I'm a navigator so it got me by surprise to see that

beautiful

[proud depot]

its like 10:30 at night and still light outside. It will still be light at midnight (though daylight does technically go away)

so no stars for me

[versed geyser]

how long have you been addicted to spice

[tight bramble]

I had to convoy up to Fairbanks a couple of times for annual training at Wainwright

[teal zodiac]

in here we are soon going to have 48hrs of daylight during some days, its really crazy to keep your circadian cycle this time of the year

[tight bramble]

You have to swap between blackout curtains and SAD lights during the year

[proud depot]

I've passed a few convoys on the Rich heading south in my day. (the 4 lane section at least) its always weird to see everyone just sitting in the back of a truck not strapped down or anything

[tight bramble]

Well yeah, safety? That makes too much sense lol

[teal zodiac]

i gave up on making the house dark some year ago so now we just use high end sleeping masks now, they are reeeeally good

[proud depot]

also trying to turn out onto the road before the next group of army guys comes marching by

[tight bramble]

Yeah pretty much lol

@proud depot wait are you in the 907Gamers Facebook group?

[proud depot]

So are you above the arctic circle?

[proud depot]

Yes I am, not very active in the group though

wait maybe

I'm in the steam group at least

[tight bramble]

Holy shit I knew I recognized your name haha

Destiny 2?

[proud depot]

turns out I am not. apologies

there seems to be more than one though

[tight bramble]

Oh well....I recognize it from somewhere....

[proud depot]

I was active on TF2 back in the day. Also play a lot of gta online nowadays

[teal zodiac]

Where i live its close to the limit, but sometimes I have arctic expeditions and its crazy to have full light or full dark, my sleep routine is very messed up

[proud depot]

@tight bramble Did you hear they moved the stampede creek trail bus?

[tight bramble]

No i didnt. Why?

[proud depot]

People were getting sick of idiots needing to be rescued trying to get to it. Military made a training excersize out of it and did it for free

its currently somewhere at UAF being restored. At some point it will be displayed outside the Museum of the North

[tight bramble]

Taxpayer dollars at work

[idle hill]

Sorry, stopped looking
No, they're not there, or in the internet archive, or on Twitch
I'm gonna take what everyone else here has said and go with the conclusion that it was deleted for one reason or another

Personally, I enjoy watching VODs going over something in full, specifically documents trying to make a change or accusation, because you can get both sides of the argument through chat and the streamer.
Even better if someone with legal experience is involved

[dusky grove]

Surrender flag. easiest to make. Simple. Elegant

[proud depot]

must avoid making obvoius joke

[dusky grove]

🥖 ?

[proud depot]

🇫🇷 , yes

[gritty tartan]

Ironically, France won more wars than lost.

[tribal nest]

France actually has the record for most battles won in history. And for totally unrelated reasons, England comes in second

[rocky venture]

"Cuttlefish."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU-Sc8BLPF0

[proud lily]

Thor made a post about this a few days ago. Someone already mirrored the message to you earlier, but if you want the full explanation there it is: #streamchat message

[idle hill]

I saw the "Cutoff at 11:55" bit, but didn't know about the "DELETED ENTIRELY at 16 hours" bit. That's crazy.

[ocean agate]

Khronos is live

[hazy storm]

And Canada remains the only country that has successfully burned down the white house

[teal zodiac]

The wings of the copter look so weird on stream

framerate misalign maybe?

[fickle bluff]

Iirc Thor said it has smth to do with stream's bitrate

[indigo wadi]

We didn't. British troops did.

Canada did not exist at the time.

Canada didn't become legally independent until 1982

[faint rapids]

Morning goons

[zealous frost]

Shaye is live

https://www.twitch.tv/rivermakes

[tribal nest]

Shaye has a Twitch channel?!

[fathom phoenix]

They are drawing their OC currently

[sharp sundial]

thank god joshstrifehayes just released a video denouncing the harassment.

[turbid flower]

Link for that?

[sharp sundial]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF-IXeX1hYk

[gloomy forge]

That the thing Josh said even has to be said is part of the problem IMHO, people should uphold a bunch of civility at all times, it should take way more than these types of disagreements in order to make people mad. Its nice that he denounces the hate, but it sucks because thousands of others did say the same thing throughout the history of the internet, only for it to get worse.

[sharp sundial]

yeah, i'm really disappointed in charlie and even asmon to a degree they all added to the hate without mentionining harassment and their communities take that as a signal that the harassment is okay this time

[gloomy forge]

it creates the sentiment that people always act in bad faith and that further degrades engagement online.

i honestly feel they all need a dr. k session together holding hands

[celest flume]

Please enlight me but, wasn't it thor that started the uncivil comments toward the movement? Or did Ross started it by insulting thor?

[turbid flower]

Those comments....
"No one deserves harrassement, violence, etc... BUT Thor could've prevented this from happening to him."
Victim blaming 101.
You can disagree with whoever you want. And you can feel anyway you want about them.
But don't be so low as to say someone could've prevented harassment/abuse/violence against them if they had only gone along with what others wanted from the start.

[gloomy forge]

Its never about who started a internet fight but whether or not what has been said is grounded in good faith (Thor has criticism towards something) or bad faith (Thor backstabs someone by pretending he cares about a thing).

[celest flume]

All clips i can find is just that one where thor said he will actively tell everyone not to support the movement

was that the first take he had, or was there a previous interaction ebtween thor and ross to make him taht hostile?

[gloomy forge]

But thats fine, you can disagree with Thor on that but if you don't like something you can tell others not to like things as well. Thats also good, because Thor tells people to do their whole research. Adults can disagree on things and still be friends.

You don't have to be alligned 100% towards the streamer.

[celest flume]

Yeaa, but we talking about the civility part no?

[vague palm]

There's nothing uncivil about "don't support it, here's why"

[gloomy forge]

Yes but "telling everyone not to support the movement" is unrelated then.

[vague palm]

"uncivil" would be stuff like what's happening right now, with the threats and the insults and whatever else.

[turbid flower]

I can't quite remember. But I do remember things got a little heated after the SKG reddit started trying to use Thor to increase publicity through negativity.

[celest flume]

You cant expect the other side to be still civil when you flick the first fire. Sure its an out of control wild fire, but surely there must be the first one that sparked it?

[gloomy forge]

Also please don't be emotional about this, I support SKG and I'm one of the first 120k or so signatures.

[jolly sky]

And, he didn't even follow up on telling everyone not to support it, just that he does not.

[celest flume]

I have no emotional investment in this, just pure curiosity

[gloomy forge]

@celest flume its not about "who started first", if someone says "you suck!" you can choose to think of " " and move on, or you can choose to further fuel the fire.

[celest flume]

The language used is bit uncivil no?

[worthy ivy]

no

[jolly sky]

No...?

[worthy ivy]

sanp 🙂

*snap

[gloomy forge]

@celest flume I don't wanna defend Thor, he is an adult who said his peace many times but he did say that if he stepped over the line it was because 1. he was emotional 2. he appologized and 3. what josh is saying in the video.

[fluid dome]

Sanp

[brittle rune]

You might not be the one doing it and that's respectable, but saying Thor deserves it because "he wasn't civil first" is effectively saying all the harassment, death threats, swatting attempts, etc. are fine because "he started it"

[celest flume]

Oh he did apologized? where? was it in twitter or something?

[gloomy forge]

Yeah, exactly. Thats just 101 victim blaming.

[brittle rune]

On twitter and on stream yes

[gloomy forge]

@celest flume see, now I'm assuming you act in bad faith because the video was posted right before you had disagreements with discord here that talks about it and shows the appology.

[jolly sky]

Yes, Thor admittingly got a little passionate in the forever clipped section of the live stream.

Imagine getting emotional about something you care about (game development and video games)

Which is why he then made the 2 Youtube Video's going over his thoughts in a calm way.

[gloomy forge]

Josh is talking about hegelian dialectic at the 22:50 or so mark, thats very good. Thats what people need IMHO

[green plank]

its ironic cause i feel like people generally dont wanna join a movement they arnt interested in, I feel like this is generally a pretty understandable concept

[gloomy forge]

that you need people like thor to pick things to pieces and to form a middle ground. As in, blind support is never good, lets think this through. If ideas don't fully function under scrutiny then they're flawed, and in hindsight I feel that Thor simply wanted to test that out. Thats kinda his thing

[celest flume]

wuh what bad faith? i asked here while the josh video is running on the background, i dont know anything about twitter, and i had no disagreements, i just asked what i knew is accurate or not.

[gloomy forge]

Truth be told, I was upset back in like May when I saw the "don't support SKG" short of Thor, but I also was like "yeah its his opinion, maybe someone has a watertight argument for him so he supports it".

[celest flume]

I know the topics is really sensitive right now, but i really asking my opinion here because i was curious, and here is thor's community, good place to ask about this, so i thought.

[jolly sky]

And look, if it were me in Ross's situation and I saw the heinous things a large majority of the supporters of the movement are doing, I'd be denouncing their actions and actively telling them to stop doing that Every. Single. Chance. I. Got.

[gloomy forge]

@celest flume Ahhh so you "lacked critical information", thats fine. Information on the internet can go by fast. I assumed you knew all the bits and pieces of "da drama". Sorry for not thinking about that mate.

[faint rapids]

Im so glad I recorded it 💕 yes thor apologized and I might even upload it

[celest flume]

I dont condone any irl threat or whatsoever, i just want to know what started it, and your initial topic was about civility, so i asked about it

[green plank]

i just cant imagine caring that much about another persons care in my special interest

[faint rapids]

Then he and khronos were like "watch that's gonna be the only thing they never clip"😅

[green plank]

like, if i really like power rangers, i dont expect all of you to like it LOL

[gloomy forge]

I feel it started because Thor is "a gamer bro" and acts like one but hes also very smart. I feel Thor when he was younger browsed 4chan a little bit too often unfortunatly.

[fluid dome]

Josh Strife Hayes drama coverage hydrogen bomb vs Moistcritikal drama coverage coughing baby

[gloomy forge]

so that "pottymouth" and approach to things kinda sticked with him.

[green plank]

"😡 why arnt you joining the cause"

gives off certain vibes

[turbid flower]

People turn a blind eye to others who have a platform and won't use it to denounce things done on their behalf. So long as it's beneficial to their side....

[gloomy forge]

BUT he also grew up, and in recent month he introspected a lot about himself too. You hear it whenever he explains things to chat. Its not because of a fake persona but he wants to learn too, thats kinda his thing. He would self sabotage himself and his perception of his own integrity if not for that.

[faint rapids]

For someone chronically online, "eat my entire ass" isn't that bad

[indigo wadi]

No one deserves harassment

[green plank]

im more so worried cause, i dont personally feel safe having a perspective online anymore

these large creators make me not wanna make stuff

[gloomy forge]

Yeah true, I mean thats like a 2/10 or so in terms of bad things to say online.

[celest flume]

Uh, i never said anyone do? Just treat anyone as if theyre right in front of you is my believe.

[green plank]

cause if you disagree with them, apparently they send 20 million people to harass you

[indigo wadi]

Ross' flippant attitude in his initial video

[faint rapids]

Only if you have 3 million fans though and hold a strong opinion on something, just create bro

[indigo wadi]

Too bad internet dossnt

[gloomy forge]

@green plank yeah true, it feels "directed", influencers turned into "public opinion controllers" but that public opinion always has to be the most watered down thing. But I feel that this stuff only happens to "big creators". You heard of slither.io? Drama is essentially a game of that, whoever wins the drama gains audience and whoever lose the drama loses audience. Its all about social cred with these type of internet arguments for big content creators.

the downside is that people who stand on the sidelines feel less safe and that shouldn't be the case.

[jolly sky]

It's so wack

[green plank]

well we are at a point where people attack you if you say "i dont have an opinion on that"

[turbid flower]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't, damned if you didn't even know.

[green plank]

"fake" "fence sitter" "say how you really feel" and its like, brother... that IS how i really feel

[fluid dome]

"But they will use it as an excuse to be horrific human beings"

Well said Josh.

[green plank]

if i pretended to care, the irony, is that would be fake LOL

[faint rapids]

Thor has a really rugged character and this kind of backlash isn't common, people are just mad because he's so hard to change

[worthy ivy]

"eat my entire ass" is pure gold
it's so good I've already stolen it and used it IRL a couple of times
if people think Thor saying "eat my entire ass" is reason enough for all this drama they can eat my entire ass 🙂

[green plank]

cause some people... actually dont care LMAO

like its not fake

[green plank]

would that be change or manipulation

[turbid flower]

Why did it have to include the crunchy bits....

[gloomy forge]

In my opinion, the thing you see right now with internet drama is an attempt from content creators to syphon audiences/power/influence off from the loser, in this case its Thor, as weird as it sounds. However, Thor has a strong core audience, regardless of how many people stop watching him, thousands still do. Which makes "winning" or "losing" internet drama kinda redundant. Because it goes against the usual paradigm of winners and losers people get even more angry. Thats the reason I feel the wow drama never ended, but I feel in the next 4-5 years Thor will reach peak old audience again.

[jolly sky]

That's the corn

[green plank]

like i mean, people try to manipulate him

but he doesnt let them

[faint rapids]

He despises saying something just because it's what everyone wants him to stay, he sticks to only saying what he believes

[gloomy forge]

I was vehemently against the way Thor phrases stuff and disagree with many of his opinions when he became famous. the wow drama made me check his stream out for real, never judge a book by its cover and all that. Turns out, I like the community and mr strimmer and modges. Very CohhCarnage esque.

[faint rapids]

Cohh with trauma

[green plank]

you know, i dont actually agree with thor on everything lol, but hes not like ...satan 😂

also... if you look at some of those other streamers from that wow guild, ima keep it 100 they are shitty ppl irl

[vague palm]

I'm in the weird position of disagreeing with both but (barring a blog post I might write about it) I don't feel like talking about it much lol, this can go on without me

[faint rapids]

Apparently they all roached out just like thor weeks after making him the bad guy

[gloomy forge]

yeah, I just jumped here because of the josh video and how I feel its important as a reminder to disagree on things. The internet turns people into extremist. You can either have "this" or "that" kinda mentality.

[green plank]

also btw, being appealing/likeable, and being a good person , are completely different things

[gloomy forge]

even though the entirely of all of society is built on compromises.

[green plank]

there are plenty of charming and funny and cute and silly people... that are complete monsters and abusive

[gloomy forge]

And as Accused Farms said, SKG will also have compromises. thats just how things go.

[green plank]

dont let a person thats relatable/funny make you think they are good

[fluid dome]

Ya know what's funny

[gloomy forge]

@green plank yeah I couldn't agree more, a lot of people that are horrible people and get caught get their neighbours say "but he was such a good person..." thats called the halo effect.

the halo effect can also go to the opposite direction, you can unreasonably hate someone based on something superficial.

[fluid dome]

If the industry operated under a better framework instead of how it is currently, we wouldn't have a need for SKG

[faint rapids]

Can I ask something off topic or are yall locked in lol

[green plank]

yea, thats reality ... and it is highly applicable to content creators that are charming, maybe have a cute voice, are funny, silly, whatever

[gloomy forge]

@faint rapids I feel this is a free discord channel you can ask whatever you want mate.

[green plank]

being cute and funny never justifies you looking down on others and taking advantage of ppl

[gloomy forge]

@green plank vtubers right now crying into their pillow

[worthy ivy]

chat goblins be all "what is this strange concept 'off-topic' of which you speak?"

[faint rapids]

If people are too focused they just ignore pivots lol

[gloomy forge]

@faint rapids you can still ask stuff, 100% sure people read it.

[ocean agate]

ADHD is a probably heavy in this chat (discord) "off" topic probably is foreign concept

[faint rapids]

I haven't played dune, but have watched so much I feel like I have, and just got no man's sky yesterday and I feel like the games have a lot of the same vibes

[gloomy forge]

people on the internet struggle more with having no ADHD its kinda became part of the internet.

@faint rapids 100%, dune awakening and NMS have something I call "man made desolation", you fly around visiting planets without much civilisation but thats your choice

[ocean agate]

No Mans Sky or NMS has a lot less dangers to it. Dune has an overall tension and risk.

[gloomy forge]

the part of visiting the unknown not knowing whats there is part of it.

[worthy ivy]

building system feels a bit similar - think it might be the snapping, feels really good so far at least

[ocean agate]

similarities can be brought about almost any two games it just depends on how you view them

[faint rapids]

I've noticed no man's sky is way more lonely, but the base building felt really similar and there was a storm while I was building my first base

[worthy ivy]

only at steel mind

[faint rapids]

True, you could argue that minecraft is a better comparison depending on perspective

[ocean agate]

not sure if its still bugged, but NMS used to have an issue where sometimes building piece of your base would disappear for a while and come back later. you have been warned 😉

[faint rapids]

Don't worry, my base is small, I'm statistically safer😅

[fluid dome]

Me when I see a game with 0 friction

https://tenor.com/view/meeting-bored-office-spaces-asleep-drowsy-gif-5385105

I'm so tired of convenience

[gloomy forge]

I personally love building stuff in peace. play at your own pace kinda deals, but yeah sometimes you just wanna be competitive.

[faint rapids]

If anyone else here hates the silent chat khronos is live

[gloomy forge]

if its against the environment or other people

[faint rapids]

I'm on the easiest difficulty in NMS but the storm was still fun without adding any difficulty

[gloomy forge]

@faint rapids thats cool, hope it was a cozy storm then.

I've been playing some soulstone survivors recently, fun game but really difficult.

good balance though.

[gloomy forge]

looks cozy.

[faint rapids]

Was real cozy, I only built what I'm standing in, but I'm using a npc landing pad to line up my ship to that planet

[hasty grail]

morning, whats the tldr of the JSH vid?

[nova bough]

just gonna...leave this here. for if someone needs it later.

also cat

[astral crypt]

online discourse isn't existent anymore. It's not about exchanging ideas. Also, he doesn't agree with any of the harassment coming at Thor.

that's my tldr, at any rate

[hasty grail]

sooo same things most of us have been indirectly saying at times

[faint rapids]

Saved for later

[nova bough]

online discourse is mostly poo flinging with no one really open to change their minds. havent watched the vid, but thats how i feel with a lot of people on the internet.

[faint rapids]

Is there a new vid or something

[astral crypt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF-IXeX1hYk this was posted earlier

[frozen nimbus]

Video is unavailable

Gonna watch it later,
-# could someone summerize for now

[clever flower]

i just, perhaps naively, wish people could just... talk about stuff in a calm and civil manner.

[astral crypt]

that's...odd. my tldr is above

[umbral gazelle]

this is a good one. Unlike alot of other videos this one is fair and trying to build bridges instead of burning them.

[faint rapids]

You guys wanna know something funny

[umbral gazelle]

There is only 2 outcomes of this... Yes

[frozen nimbus]

Ok thank you

[frozen nimbus]

My internet is weird, some videos just dont work on data

[faint rapids]

Khronos has more viewers on twitch than thor on YouTube 😅

[gloomy forge]

Yes and guess what, this video is made because Thor made the first step by talking to Josh in private. Or maybe second step because Josh asked first but people still do the "han shot first" so yeah I think both Thor and Josh build that bridge.

[faint rapids]

The YouTube steam usually has about 700 people and khronos has 1400 on twitch right now, I just thought that was funny

Whoops everyone left to feed khronos

[gloomy forge]

kitty

[nova bough]

cat!

[gloomy forge]

the one leg of the cat looks massive compared to the other perspective is a funny thing.

[hardy ingot]

2:54 timestamp probably mindfks the entire internet

[gloomy forge]

"10 things that mindfs the internet the 4th thing will shock you"

[nova bough]

he is a bit under a year, so teen cat is somewhat out of proportion

[nova bough]

that timestamp needs to be its own short

and blasted everywhere

not that people will listen but

still

[hardy ingot]

reading the comments is as always however, depressing

[vague palm]

youtube comments have been garbage for decades, every creator should frankly just turn them off

[hardy ingot]

Seeing people genuinely disappointed with Josh for being a decent human being and trying to sway him away from that is just... wild

[jolly sky]

Just goes to show even if you forced everyone to watch Josh's video, some people could still get the complete wrong idea

People are too entrenched

[umbral gazelle]

I'm unsure how to respond to this. I mean i guess? Not sure why this needed to be pointed out?

[earnest cove]

Looking at Josh's section i think the internet is sincerely justifying inflicting disproportionate insane harm on anyone they don't like

[hot elk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAVNxAVal1U&ab_channel=OliveBadger I think this really sums up just out outlandish it is to be so opposed to skg in the way Thor is

[umbral gazelle]

looking at Joshes discord his community does not think that. the radical part SKG community is just out for blood and haunt all the videos

[hot elk]

I've yet to see this radical skg community I've only heard about it from this discord and Thor himself

I've been following and engaging in skg from the start

[earnest cove]

Admittingly i just read the YouTube comments on his video and i had the impression that lots and lots of people are justifying attacks

In nicer ways but "because person bad i cannot agree with your civility" was the vibe i get

[idle hill]

Pop into the stream sometime. Watch the chat. Yeah many of the comments get deleted, but they do still have an emotionally draining effect.

[hot elk]

I'm in stream chat a lot I do see the wild stuff before it gets deleted. I'm just trying to say it's hard to apply those comments to the skg community. Thor has a lot of hate all the time It would be more likely theses bad actors are just there to hate on Thor and are not part of the skg movemnet

[hasty grail]

thats what i think for most of them

[ocean agate]

any group of people over a certain size (even this one) will eventually get some people who become radicalized. Here it is often referred to as the void, and we try to actively purge those who become radical (not saying other groups don't too) just because its not seen by everyone doesn't mean these parts don't exist

[astral crypt]

As a moderator I can tell you it's related to the skg related videos. We weren't deleting half as much hateful/toxic stuff a week ago.

[umbral gazelle]

From Joshes video the comment section on SKG always turn into anti Piratesoftware and not okay how do we actually get SKG to succeed and prosper.

[hasty grail]

how much of it comes with each chapter of hate?

[earnest cove]

Yeah i saw that comment. It's one of rhe one justifying acting cruel in real life if person is "bad enough"

[astral crypt]

Not understanding your question

[hot elk]

yeah there's blood in the water so the people who hate Thor as now piggy backing off the recent drama as they always do same with only fangs and even in AOC with that one guild

[umbral gazelle]

oh found what i was looking for from Joshes original SKG video. This is the entire reason im against SKG its not about games preservation its about keeping consumption active. Well acording to Ross unsure if this has changed once again

[hasty grail]

every time another chapter of crap starts flying, how bad is the spike of hate in streams from the mod side?

[astral crypt]

Occasionally we have time to track the actual numbers but it's really bad. We call in for people off shift to come help.

[hot elk]

there's also more comments on that video that are like "lets keep it postive and just focus on skg"

[gloomy forge]

Maybe Thor is simply scared of potential change in legislature because he hates all the big companies he worked for and he doesn't trust the government to do anything right. from the perspective of some people, changes in TOS can backfire hard. Even if 99% have insanely good intentions, 1% of the naysayers can still direct things to lead to a worse outcome. I feel people should still try to change things for the better. SKG could lead to TOS becoming shorter and things becoming simpler for the consumer. But the balance between already existing laws such as copyright which are difficult to change and SKG will take a long time with many compromises.

[hot elk]

how is this about keeping consumption active..?

[astral crypt]

Good cuz that seems to be the point of Josh's video

[cursive solar]

wait, just read it but didnt see anything odd

[ocean agate]

another thing about skg is that i have seen companies break laws if the cost to implement (follow the law) is more then the fine, they will just pay the fine and move on without a care in the world to what law they broke.

so they might just increase cost of games to compensate

[umbral gazelle]

the way SKG is presented is about saving games but this statement says its only about saving indvidual copies for people

[dusky grove]

Just saw that JSH posted his vid. How many people have come here to talk since?

[umbral gazelle]

i think games should become freeware when the die enter the public domain

[worthy ivy]

GDPR has entered chat

good law, good intentions, mostly fine, empowers customers...
but those that tanked/crashed/burned because they couldn't afford the extra costs to comply with GDP... mainly smaller businesses

the big players just carried on and found legal-workarounds using their in-house legal teams

[hot elk]

I do not envy your position and I have a ton of respect for what you have to go through especially at these high drama times.

[worthy ivy]

SKG would be crippling for indies - big players just carry on
if I put my tinfoil hat on...

[ocean agate]

this could destroy follow up games since they would have to compete with older versions of their own games

[astral crypt]

Thanks. The psychic damage is real

[cursive solar]

if that would be the case there would be alot more issues, thats very unrealistic to think that companies would do that or the government would allow that. think most people if not everyone doesnt expect that

[umbral gazelle]

yea dont know why Ross posted that comment.

[cursive solar]

allowing people to play the games they own is saving games

[hasty grail]

https://youtu.be/7Ei04qeqB70
unrelated but equally as stupid

[gloomy forge]

@worthy ivy yeah...it was a huge deal in europe, people thought it was the end of the world.

[cursive solar]

people that dont own the games are fairly not included, if they dont own the game they dont own it

[worthy ivy]

it was for some small businesses

[dusky grove]

I mean, I for one am getting sick of the "rerelease/remaster/special edition" meta that skyrim milked to hell and back.

[ocean agate]

(proof of character)

[worthy ivy]

something something law of unintended consequences 🙂

[idle hill]

I tried to listen to this video but it ended up becoming a bunch of white noise... sorry man, not a fan of someone shouting a script in my ear at the same volume and pitch, without pause, for what, 30 minutes?

[ocean agate]

i dont mean that, i mean like elder scrolls 6, why make it if they have to make 5 free. why would i buy 6? just wait till its free and never buy a game again

[worthy ivy]

might be because I'm in an old-man-shouts-at-clouds phase, but I'm on the same page as Thor with the 'you probably don't want government involved in anything you care about' thing

[vague palm]

Anything related to tech for sure

[gloomy forge]

yeah my point too, I feel Thor would also support SKG but people doing blind enthusiasm for a cause rubbed him the wrong way. At least thats how I felt the whole situation developing back last year or so when first I heard Thors criticism

[umbral gazelle]

I think that would be fine. If you cant put enough effort into a sequel thats its worse than the original it deserves to fail. But that is just my VERY SUBJECTIVE opinion

[hot elk]

Thor's reaction imo is just so ill informed and it's very baffling to me. Not trusting the companies or the gov is EXACTLY why you need to fight for regulation. Thor's reaction to me seems like an attempt to keep the status quo because he doesn't believe it's anit-gamer/consumer. Now I can make assumptions on why he's on that side but I don't know who Thor is personally and his interests or agendas. What is upsetting is how Thor has presented himself as this avatar of indie devs and creating a better industry for gamers/consumers then to be so incredibly shortsighted and stubborn on skg

[vague palm]

Do you really want the people who say, and I quote, "the internet is uncharted territory for all of us", to write laws about it?

[worthy ivy]

think that's the nub of it

[cursive solar]

hot take but the government should be involved more, alot of games right now are in a very gray area of owning or being a service, it shouldnt be like that

[proud coral]

:3

[umbral gazelle]

i think this is the effect of how corporate america has treated him. Thor's own experiences, as logical as a person can be, we are all humans with emotions.

[umbral vault]

[idle hill]

+1 on this
SKG knew the initiative was vague. They were hoping it gets clarification if it reached legislation.
Sane people do not trust the government to clarify their documents, especially not if it's something they care about.
Yes the government should get involved. No you should not present vague documents to them.

[worthy ivy]

or ask Zuckerberg questions about why his daughter was banned from TikTok in a senate hearing (or whatever stupid thing it was, ICRCRN)

and Zuck rightfully looked confused

[dusky grove]

Well, sequels are a case by case basis. Going of elder scrolls 5 to 6 is different to say... going from FF16 to 17.

A sequel is a sequel, yes, but it also has to be able to stand on its own as a piece of media instead of relying on the glory of past installments. It has to be its own game

[hot elk]

This is just entirly incorrect. It's not difficult to plan for a game to be preserved after it's shutdown. Also it's not hard to add exceptions to certain games or situations. That's why we have debates on laws to find the fairest solution we can all come up with

[umbral gazelle]

Last time vagueness directly affected me was when EU almost killed the danish economy. Politics is the single most slippery slope we have vagueness has no place here in my opinion

[cursive solar]

what people need to understand is that an initiative and this initiative was done to start a conversation, if it gets enough signatures, thats when more detail happens and when devs especially get more involved in what they want to do

of course it will be vague

[umbral gazelle]

issue is this is now how it was represented to many people and it caused confusion

[cursive solar]

it seems like most people understand, ive only seen confusion here

[gloomy forge]

@hot elk I feel doing that is fantastic, but it would be more effective in building a grassroots movement and fighting for it from within. Have tens of thousands of voluntaries for a non profit that e-mails publishers and devs to garner support, maybe some would even allow the archival of very old games for diferent home computers. Nobody tried that because that needs work. For me and my understanding of anythig Europe Parliament, a civil initiative in the EU has as much impact as a C-Span meeting. Unfortunatly things will not play out as fast as people think because they have to argue for a change while still respecting established copyright laws, which you cannot overrule.

[hazy storm]

For me anyone who says "its not difficult" is automatically lower on my credibility list because that often means they don't know have first hang knowledge of what they're talking about and making assumptions

[fluid dome]

This is down to publishers labelling them as such

[worthy ivy]

see where you're coming from - would be that way most of the time, but there's always the edge cases - and lawmakers are not good at edge cases (at least in the UK/EU)

just tune into the televised commons debates from the UK and you'll see the true banality of the level of debate and scrutiny they operate at - it's like watching highschool kids debate which sportsball team is the best

[hot elk]

But to be presented with the option to talk to Ross and to ignore it? then shit-sling hate to him? and then when presented with facts that Thor was incorrect on to keep doubling down over and over.. that's not what you do when you're searching for truth or when your core values are aligned with empathy

[cursive solar]

and also the way i see it is if it seems vague, it leaves devs to negotiate how they want to handle the situation and how they want to compensate customers

[dusky grove]

Well it certainly started a conversation, probably not the one it intended tho.

The conversation HAS started, so why not go on to refine it NOW that people have eyes on it

[umbral gazelle]

Congratulations you have seen emotional Trauma in effect. Logic doesnt exist here.

I can understand why Thor jumped to conclusions i can also understand why others didnt

[gloomy forge]

But I'm not here to argue, just playing devil advocate. Its still worth trying it out, see if SKG succeeds. Don't give up on it.

[cursive solar]

what conversation has it exactly started? if your talking about how people are debating what the initiative is, ive only seen that here

[dusky grove]

Intentions or not, the vagueness left many people unsure of what was to come.

Like your landlord going "Yeah there's gonna be a construction team inspecting the house next month. What for? Is there a problem? Don't worry about it, wr'll talk about it when they arrive"

[idle hill]

I'd recommend checking out Primagen's video (@ /ThePrimeTime) on the SKG topic. He explains in greater detail why SKG would take more developer work to create that end of life plan.

[cursive solar]

again, i hear people saying the vagueness left people unsure but i see most of those people just here

[umbral gazelle]

I personally think Thor should have stayed out of european politics. But i think the concept of Thor determining the outcome of SKG failing or succeeding is a bit absurd.

[dusky grove]

The scope of the initiative and what they ACTUALLY want. Yes we get its to preserve games, but everyone here wants specifics

[idle hill]

He was asked to do it. Chat wanted his support, so he looked into it. But yes, his opinion shouldn't be used as blame for the initiative failing.

[fluid dome]

This applies to literally every American commenting on this issue, even Ross tbqh

[hot elk]

lmao good thing your credibility is worthless xD Making such broad assumptions will not server you in life either in this pointless debate or irl real issues

[cursive solar]

the initiative states what it wants, and more detail happens after once the conversation actually starts, the conversation has only started with people like us, devs and the government will be the end all be all

[dusky grove]

Well thats cuz most of us here are actually the people SKG is pushing laws to mess with.

This is a dev server and this will directly and indirectly affect devs

[cursive solar]

im a dev too, ive posted here before but im choosing to prioritise people who buy games, as a customer and as a dev

[astral crypt]

And why is their credibility worthless?

Stay respectful.

That was a rhetorical question.

[gloomy forge]

@umbral gazelle but then, why do all these other dramafarmerlamas jump into the topic when they're also not european the entire situation is kinda wierd. Not to mention that while SKG is in favor of the verbraucherschutz it has to be pitted against urheberrecht which is gonna be nuts. Its the german copyright law which basically is the goldstandard of copyright in europe which all other countries basically acknowledge. it is impossible to overrule it, SKG must attempt to consider video games a form of intellectual art, maybe there is some argumeent to be had there in terms of long-term archival. Many people argued that before but it never went far.

[worthy ivy]

vagueness makes me nervous in general - might be a nerd thing, but I like to have stuff nailed down

[umbral gazelle]

Because drama channels and news site make money off farming fear and hate. This is known. And this is why they do it.

They morally shouldnt

[hot elk]

But we do have softwhere preservations outside of the gaming industry. It's not like we are starting from scratch there are already solutions out there. It's just the gaming indstury isn't required to use them. And like the video I posted here "perfect should never override good." The pursuit for more consumer rights isn't going to be a linear path but shouldn't be thrown out because you do not personally know how to solve every edge case

[umbral gazelle]

but money outweights morals it seems

[dusky grove]

This is a bad place to set the goal, imo. You don't plan your route up the mountain when you're already halfway up, you do it before you even get to basecamp.

the conversation has started, albeit here in a relatively small circle compared to... ALL OF EUROPE... but that doesn't mean we shouldn't discount whats being said here and now because "we're not at that part yet"

[gloomy forge]

@umbral gazelle yeah but thats not the full story. I mean covering this subject that is handled the european way based around american sentiments is thats be said SKG has a lot of sentiments that are entirely european, a lot of consumer protection is ruled in europe and I'm all for that.

[frosty spear]

Even of it's from 10 months ago I still think luis rossman has one of the better takes https://youtu.be/TF4zH8bJDI8

He acknowledges Thor's concerns

[indigo wadi]

He was asked....

[fluid dome]

Although I don't think the UK law is on the level of EU law, its probably a damn sight better than whatever the hell the US does

[dusky grove]

If SKG wants to succeed, and I think there's a small part of all of us that want at least SOME of SKG to succeed, it needs to start refining itself NOW while people still have eyes on it

[frosty spear]

And also brings in some of his own experience with lobbying

[dusky grove]

I mean, he said his piece and stayed quiet for 10 months. The SKG people dragged him back into it

[umbral gazelle]

Yes he was asked but he could also have refused. This is my one small critisism of Thor.

[umbral gazelle]

That is true. It is so absurd people think what was it 2 videos and a single short killed the entire movement?

[cursive solar]

ngl, i do feel as though people here have got it all wrong, devs will indeed have a voice but that will be especially after the initiative, devs will likely decide how they want to go about things when it comes to how they recompensate or give back to customers, if more detail was given, devs might have more restrictions on what they could do, its vague where it needs to be

[gloomy forge]

But yeah, its fully understandable that the general vagueness of the argumentation that is going to be provided to the european parliament may cause some people to shake their heads. Someone in here posted the UK government response to SKG a while ago and they basically said " we already support SKG here we also protect comsumers" non-response. What I mean is they really have to have proper arguments why long term archival of games that are dying is good while acknowleging the sentiments of the history that has lead to copyright law. They can't just say "ignore copyright" in europe

[umbral gazelle]

I think Thor saying his piece then not doing anything else was the correct thing to do. I respect that he could have drama and hate farmed views but choose not to

[cursive solar]

and when i say after the initiative, i mean if the signatures reach 1 mil

[frosty spear]

I mean a political initiative that can't survive some criticism from 1 person is not going to survive the lobbyists

[indigo wadi]

Why would he turn down giving his opinion as a dev?

[worthy ivy]

this

[gloomy forge]

@frosty spear of course it won't thats why building a grassroots movement would be so important.

[idle hill]

You don't understand, people were dogging him about it for an entire stream, even more, using TTS to get the message across, even if he wanted to say no people would still come in and ask him about it

[jolly sky]

And how can it be guaranteed that devs will be included in that conversation. The movement only asks for it to be disconnected from publishers, and it sure as hell won't be publishers doing all the work to make that happen

[worthy ivy]

I hate to be pithy and cliche, but the word that comes to mind is 'wrongthink'

[gloomy forge]

Its just because SKG is more of a message with the point that games are important and an important artform worthy of protection too rather than actual legislature.

[umbral gazelle]

Because its related to foreign politics that my opion of it. My opinion isnt anything else but my opinion dont take what i say as how thing should be. It is just my tiny opinion

[gloomy forge]

that comes way later.

[cursive solar]

are you serious, of course devs will be included in the conversation, how wouldnt they

[dusky grove]

I agree. But from what I've heard over the years europe has had fewer lobbying things get in the way. Though, i'm not european so I'm obviously not as well informed on the matter as an actual citizen.

But comparing eu to american news coverage its... yeah

[fluid dome]

SKG would get laughed at, and it'd set back the industry another 20+ years methinks

[worthy ivy]

/man's opinion doesn't suit the narrative so he's obviously bad/

you can apply that to basically anything anyone argues about on the internet
and that's pretty much what this whole thing boils down to

[cursive solar]

your just looking for a reason for it to be bad now that your overworrying about devs not being included when developers are the main driving force of the industry

[jolly sky]

"Of course devs will be included" I don't know how you can guarantee that since the Inititiative doesn't even mention developers.

[indigo wadi]

The Location is irrelevant. Thor was asked for his opinion on the initiative. I don't even see how it being in EU is relevant

[cursive solar]

then i ask you, how can you gaurantee that they wont be, when it makes more sense that they will

[dusky grove]

I do think that devs will be brought in once they start refining their demands. SKG would be laughed out of the room and spit on if they didn't

[indigo wadi]

There's no guarantee of anything

[gloomy forge]

@dusky grove theres around 30k lobbyists working in europe with politicians theres even a sort of union for them

[worthy ivy]

also this - we do not generally disuss politics here, but I have political opinions, and I form opinions about other countries' politics too

[umbral gazelle]

im not saying its wrong im saying thats my opinion.

[worthy ivy]

I can't have an opinion about Australian politics because I don't live there?

what?

[cursive solar]

then i dont think dan should exactly be worrying about if devs will be included in the conversation cause its such a rediculous thing to worry about

[frosty spear]

Luis explained it pretty well. The politicians know very little and care very little about the topic and the lobbyist will out right lie, so unless the movement is well formed and organised with clear goals like the right to repair movement it's going to fail

[indigo wadi]

It is a concern though

[dusky grove]

Not to mention the politics of one place often inspires political movements in other places

[cursive solar]

so now we are going to make up things to worry about when there is no need?

[gloomy forge]

@frosty spear yeah I know, fun fact: Back when Thor said "no" to the initiative people had less of a kneejerk reaction to him. Its because Thor right now is seen as "weak" and "unlikeable" is why people hate on him. Good video from Luis.

[jolly sky]

I'm frankly worried that the big people with the big money behind them (Publisher's) will use said funds and influence in an attempt to strong arm their ideas and wants in.

[indigo wadi]

What? No one is making things up.

[frosty spear]

Oh buddy, europe doesn't have magical politicians. Also there are a lot of under the table secret deals and money being passed aroun

[cursive solar]

theres things that will absolutely not happen but then people want to worry about those things to make it seem like the intuitive is more of a problem than it is

[worthy ivy]

cough cough UVDL cough cough WEF cough cough
something something Dr Evil looking m-f'er

[lunar moth]

So... which angle regarding SKG are folks talking about today then?

[cursive solar]

didnt dan just say how can it be gauranteed that devs are included, isnt that just making up something to worry about? i know your going to disagree but go off

[indigo wadi]

One can have valid concerns but then those concerns not end up happening

[cursive solar]

look, dont think you will trust anybody except maybe thor if he said this but devs will absoutely be included

[indigo wadi]

That is a concern

[worthy ivy]

well... how /can/ it be guaranteed that devs are included?

[jolly sky]

Because there have been examples of laws being messed with by "Big Money" in Europe before. It's not completely made up situations we're worried about dude

[worthy ivy]

i'd worry about that if i was dev

[frosty spear]

I've seen it before with other dying movements they are trying to both consolidate against a reachable concrete common enemy and also laying the ground work for the failure to not lay at the feet of leadership

[umbral gazelle]

Josh Strife released a positive video about how we are all human and we shouldnt hate each other for disagreeing with each other we should instead try to foster understanding so we can all build a better future. The discussion more or lesse turned into the usual

[indigo wadi]

Politicians are not trustworthy

[dusky grove]

But to rein it back. I think SKG needs to focus in on what they ACTUALLY want to do and how they want to do it. They need to bring the devs in soon and talk it out.

The recent Sag aftra strike, for all the under the table dealings it had, wad focussed on its scope which is why it made as big of a splash as it did. If they were like "we want more rights against AI" without specifying then they wouldn't have lasted that long

[cursive solar]

so let me get this straight, you guys are worried that devs, us, will not be included in a conversation about the gaming industry and how games are made?? like seriously???

[indigo wadi]

Yes

[umbral gazelle]

This has happened MANY MANY times before where people who know things about the subject had no voice in the talks

[nova bough]

armadillo break

[cursive solar]

thats actually rediculous

[gloomy forge]

[umbral gazelle]

YES ANIMAL ROLLING TANKS

[cursive solar]

i cant take anyone seriously here about this

[jolly sky]

Yes because, if there are developers that step out of game design entire due to a botched SKG initiative, who's going to make the games?

[indigo wadi]

It's not. What's ridiculous is thinking a concern is ridiculous

[cursive solar]

i will get push back for whatever

[umbral gazelle]

https://tenor.com/view/tempest-rising-tempest-sphere-construction-yard-ball-balls-gif-14704255839279336418

[frosty spear]

You know what I say everyone who thinks Europe is a magical place should come live in either hungary, romania, bulgaria or grece to get acquainted with the politicians

[umbral gazelle]

such is then nature of politics

[cursive solar]

real

[gloomy forge]

I loved Kanes Wraith

[lunar moth]

Ah, gotcha.

I like Josh's stuff, but I can't watch him because he is... an honest naïve idealist - and nothing about SKG is about ideals, it just a trend like all of the other popular trends that gets taken over in order to promote people's channels and in turn their own messaging.

[idle hill]

I need more caffeine for this. My feed's caught up but I'm 10 messages behind

[indigo wadi]

And this is why no one can take you seriously. Your attitude throughout this has been terrible and naive

[worthy ivy]

you're describing the normal process of lawmaking - bunch of suits who know nothing get together and pass laws without including key stakeholders

[gloomy forge]

Guys stop, no need to throw harsh words.

[umbral gazelle]

Dont think he is Naive i just think hes an idealist who is fully aware what he thinks is absurd but tries anyway cause he believes it to be right.

[jolly sky]

It's like complaining that there are no Plumbers around because there was a a bonkers new law that prevented them from doing what they do on a daily basis

[gloomy forge]

Stop fighting guys, this is the war room

[worthy ivy]

look at the atrocity that is the "digital DJ license" (think it came in with DMCA - which is also a bag of old socks)

[jolly sky]

Like, how can you not see the connection there

[cursive solar]

true, i didnt exactly call anyone anything

[worthy ivy]

has technical requirements it is literally impossible to adhere to

[indigo wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/korysverse-koryverse-gorilla-throwing-poop-gif-25294472

[dusky grove]

I'm not worried that it wont include devs. I'm worried about HOW.

Look at what happened when thor voiced his concerns. I'll give you that he was rude about it, but now his opinions are being disregarded and he's being labelled as a gaslighting liar.

Imagine smaller devs with less sway.

[worthy ivy]

/literally/ impossible

[edgy oar]

The concern that devs will be left out of the conversation is a very valid concern because let's be real, wouldn't be the first time devs were left out of decision making by publishers.

[dusky grove]

If THATS how SKG will treat anyone that disagrees with em, I dont trust it. Just becauee someone was rude doesn't mean they were completely wrong

[cursive solar]

look, if you think devs wont get involved at all, when its literally to do with how games get made, i dont know what to tell you, im not telling you trust the government but have some common sense and get better at putting things into context. devs and stop killing games

[worthy ivy]

if they were included, would it not be the /first/ time devs had been included in a decision by publishers? 🙂

[fluid dome]

How dare you voice concerns for the people actually affected by the initiative. You should be sent to the Lithuanian salt mines for this Blasphemy

[jolly sky]

Especially since that a conversation with Devs seems to have not been a focus whatsoever with the Inititiative itself

[gloomy forge]

I mean even before the drama happened, they had almost 500k signatures, pretty sure a lot of devs is among them too.

[dusky grove]

Nooo not the salt mines

[gloomy forge]

Right now the movement is just at the drama stage where some people just align with it simply just to say "I'm doing my part".

[dusky grove]

It does feel very bandwagoney atp

[indigo wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/im-doing-my-part-serious-stare-gif-11979677

[edgy oar]

Some people are probably signing SKG to spite Thor without actually caring

[fluid dome]

Even if devs aren't being consulted we are seeing Devs give their responses anyway, even if Ross is hellbent on excluding them

[idle hill]

If you've ever heard of Murphy's Law, try applying it also to the SKG Initiative. What could possibly go wrong? Well, everything. To be more specific, Multiplayer games could be asked to only sell their license to multiplayer servers after the game is downloaded. Devs could simply not be allowed to get involved or their input ignored. Politicians could simply pass a law that LOOKS nice to consumers, but infringes on Developer's rights. Idk, caffeine crashing.

[cursive solar]

i cant believe im saying this but outside of this chat, ive (myself) seen more devs in support for the initiative so far rather than against it

[worthy ivy]

we are sharing the braincell today

[indigo wadi]

I'll laugh if thr signatures aren't EU

[indigo wadi]

Seems that way lol

[edgy oar]

I'm pretty sure I've seen people openly admit to faking information to sign it despite not being EU

[gloomy forge]

@idle hill yeah theres quite a lot of unknowns but I want to argue that because the EU has some proper workers protection they cannot make laws in favor against that if that makes sense.

[jolly sky]

Well, all it is now is a "wait and see" game. If the Initiative goes through, and we see Devs getting shafted as a result and therefore less games made with Publishers largely being unaffected, then we all know how it happened.

[lunar moth]

Maybe naïve was the wrong word to use, but I dunno what else to describe it.
It has to do with a certain mentality that I find a lot of "old guard" internet users have, and it is one that I don't think fully works anymore but I don't know how to properly talk about it since it would get into propaganda, radicalization of online media, and a bunch of other incredibly inflammatory stuff to talk about.

[indigo wadi]

Then it'll ultimately fail

[fluid dome]

BRB gonna start an initiative to mandate pineapple on pizza

[edgy oar]

Do it

[umbral gazelle]

i suppose so

[indigo wadi]

Hopefulness?

[jolly sky]

Then they will regret it when they can't send the proper documents to prove they're an EU citizen lmao

[cursive solar]

i dont know why but i feel like that will be very few people, i could be wrong but think you need an id from within the eu

[dusky grove]

Now THATS one i can get behind

[cursive solar]

i could be wrong about that tho

[idle hill]

If people are actually fraudulently signing, support the initiative, and admit to fraudulently signing, well then the entire Initiative could be jeopardized because of it

[indigo wadi]

Twist: pineapple is expired

[deft charm]

Legit, how much of it was annoyance that Ross has no experience in the games industry, and immediately gives the sounds like every xbox live kid that thinks programming is just clicking buttons and menu options. That's basically one of my biggest pet peeves of someone that doesn't realize they're in the dunning kruger valley.

[edgy oar]

Oh it probably is a few people, not saying it's a large amount. But there are some people probably doing this just because of the drama.

[idle hill]

Don't touch my pizza. I like my cheesy meatzzza.

[umbral gazelle]

Actully No it would not. cause then all intiatives could be easily sabotaged. unless a larger part of the initative is fake it wont be ignored.

[worthy ivy]

but ngl grapes on pizza is banging 🙂

[cursive solar]

i doubt it would be very much signatures with that being the case and lets not act like there has never been an initiative where that hasnt happened (not saying its good btw)

[edgy oar]

Why are you like this?

[worthy ivy]

grapes and blue cheese with a herby marinara

[cursive solar]

oh for sure, but those people dont matter to me

[indigo wadi]

It has to have one million signs from 7 countries.

3 months to verify.

THEN it gets talk about

[worthy ivy]

eat a blue cheese and lime marmalade sandwich - you'll thank me after - is ambrosia

[indigo wadi]

Who made them this way?

[fluid dome]

Me, coming for your pizza to put pineapple on it:

https://tenor.com/view/armstrong-senator-armstrong-armstrong-running-gif-48722175896227031

[nova bough]

noperope

[jolly sky]

That's what a lot of us have been trying to say from the start, that SKG vastly oversimplifies and underestimates the complexities of not only Game Design, but also Copyright and IP law that protects developers (both big and small) to keep their work, their own work.

[cursive solar]

this is true but having the "theres no point cause its very unlikely to happen mentality" is not the way to go about it

this is something that could take ages for anything to actually happen but that doesnt matter to me

[lunar moth]

Since I'm also talking with @umbral gazelle, get pinged!

Not really. It is more like... imagine watching one of those things where people take a photograph in front of a mirror with the same angle and they do that for 10 years. Now imagine it goes smoothly but then suddenly, it gets cut off, events happen, and then it continues as if it was the same ... but it isn't. The pictures get more and more different and each time there's some event more and more things to start to change in the background to insinuate things happening to the environment that they are in that fundamentally changes it.

It isn't entirely unfamiliar to the vibe that the theme of the game We Happy Few gives off, because... the people are the same, and everyone loves to use the "Joy Pill" but... it doesn't change that the world around them changes. So... what I'm describing is a dystopian version of hopefulness?

[worthy ivy]

being chemically enhanced the entire weekend every other weekend from 1990 something until 2010

bwomp bwomp bwomp bwomp

(or oonts oonts oonts oonts if you're into hardcore)

[edgy oar]

We're all weird in our own way

[idle hill]

I'm chemically enhanced (drinking Monster Energy)

[nova bough]

also, grass. (and flowers.)

[worthy ivy]

these days I just hammer ten coffees a day instead - compensating for not taking ADHD meds anymore because they make you mental if you take too much as an adult

[idle hill]

ooh, those flowers look yummy

[worthy ivy]

stopped that shit after college

[edgy oar]

I haven't had a Monster in a month

[indigo wadi]

Josh's take/voice is one of the few rare ones in today's internet world.

Maybe it's because we're all cynical

[edgy oar]

And that's a crime

[nova bough]

also adhd, meds make it so that i dont sleep and crash out on the weekends.

so I don't take meds

[cursive solar]

oh okay thats my bad, thought you were saying theres basically no point lol

[idle hill]

Hey thanks for reminding me I still have coffee that I bought FOUR MONTHS AGO

[fluid dome]

Ha, nerd

[indigo wadi]

Unmedicated ADHD, my man

[idle hill]

I bet that's gotten stale af by now

[nova bough]

outdoor cat

[idle hill]

Weird ass cat

[cursive solar]

josh is the best, i dont really watch him but whenever ive watched him ive generally agreed with what he has to say

[edgy oar]

I like your cat

[fluid dome]

AI when they incorrectly identify a picture:

[gloomy forge]

yeah thats how a democracy should work, checks and balances.

[indigo wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/tren-estrecho-gif-23673496

[edgy oar]

Managed Democracy?

[lunar moth]

Maybe, I want to talk and explore this topic further but... as I have said before in here - my background is philosophy, political science, propaganda, and effectively studying fake news. I see issues online that are incredibly difficult to describe without sounding like a doomsayer. I like Josh and Thor because they are normal people (Thor's background isn't but that's a different thing)... and that's becoming incredibly rare online, even by people whose mannerisms are normal.
But this is also not a forum/discord for that exactly either.

[idle hill]

because of this whole skg thing I went and wrote a completely unrelated review of a MC modpack I was playing but started to enjoy less and less. Shit sucked late game, man. Turns out I just hate the base mods the studio uses for all of their packs.

[worthy ivy]

self medicated ADHD
these days SWIM smokes a nice smelling cigarette instead of prescription amphetamines - but when SWIM was on ritalin he was prescribed 1100mg/day

[indigo wadi]

I think most missed that point

[worthy ivy]

can't eat that much as an adult, you lose your mind

[gloomy forge]

nah EU doesn't do the whole "gun" thing, here managed democracy is more about...lewder things

[indigo wadi]

Ahh

[worthy ivy]

know a few ADHD lads still take the meds and they're 30-odd - far too old to still be eating ritalin - but they don't listen 😦

[edgy oar]

Lewder things you say?

[idle hill]

That sounds like a reason to do it, to me

[cursive solar]

i try to not be too optimistic cause i dont want to get disappointed but im happy to see how much signatures the initiative has gotten within less than a week, think it was at like 450k?

[worthy ivy]

not in a good way

[nova bough]

i will say, the brief time i was on adhd meds...

man did i get ALL the things done. all of them. and then some more.

[indigo wadi]

The last meds I took were Vyvanse. Killed my appetite so I quit em

[earnest cove]

I was listening to Josh a bit and he's right the internet forgot to be civil and beat anyone they disagree with a stick

I am very slow it seems

[indigo wadi]

It's a small burst. It won't continue

[green plank]

im curious to see the follow up "thor killed skg for real" vids, once the movement actually ends

[gloomy forge]

@edgy oar I mean in europe theres places where people can walk naked in parks and beaches, its frowned upon in some places to wear clothes there.

[green plank]

cause you have to milk everything whenever you can

[cursive solar]

even so, id like to think differently, no need to kill my happiness

[edgy oar]

In about another week or so when the drama dies so will momentum.

[worthy ivy]

can i edit blocked message? need to find out what automod doesn't like

[idle hill]

I'm already seeing them wdym

[cursive solar]

maybe, maybe not, will see

[indigo wadi]

Because you can be nasty with reprocussion. Ppl are less likely to be nasty in person

[edgy oar]

On my way

[green plank]

well i mean, this is wave 1, wave 2 will be when it actually ends

[gloomy forge]

@green plank yeah it sucks, cr1tikal will earn 15k from that video but Thor will get even more flak for no reason.

[indigo wadi]

I'm just pointing out a potential realism. Only you are in control of your feelings

[lunar moth]

Let me ask you a question:
If the signatures come from folks being interested in the drama and consistant attacks and victimization of other people who hold a different opinion to you, are you really happy that the imitative is going forward with that as its movement?

It isn't getting a push because people agree with it, it is getting a push because people love the drama and gives people an excuse to participate in online harassment.
Is that really a good sign of the initiative being based on something you ideologically agrees with...?

[edgy oar]

Auto mod typically doesn't like swear words.

[green plank]

then wave 3 will be 3 months from now and it will be "a retrospective of how creators can ruin a good movement" and it will be thors face like this 🫤

[cursive solar]

thats great to hear..

[indigo wadi]

It doesn't go through and it should tell you

[green plank]

youtubers are predictable, not trustworthy, and liars

[earnest cove]

I'm thinking "without repercussions" missing a word.

That said i found something that just condenses the internet

[indigo wadi]

Shit

[gloomy forge]

@green plank welcome to the internet, drama/hate is what people click on and it earns them money.

[earnest cove]

I didn't bother screenshoting the rest of the justifying rant

[worthy ivy]

ritarlin is basically the same as the durg that is named after a measure of how fast things go
if you ate the amount of ritarlin that we prescribe to kids as an adult, you'll likely have a bad time - most people don't react well to that much 'thing that's named for being fast' on a daily basis

[earnest cove]

Because that IS the internet and some parts of real life

[worthy ivy]

yes! f you automod

[cursive solar]

thats the way you see it, not telling you how you should see things..

of course there will be people signing it for the drama but who are you to say how much of those people are

[indigo wadi]

Stupid mobile lol

[green plank]

btw 2 years from now there will be a video called "2 years after skg" and it will be another pic of thor like this 🫤

[cursive solar]

most people arent being toxic

[idle hill]

Yeah thats why we call the trolls a toxic minority

[edgy oar]

He bullied Ross for months? See these people don't even know what they're mad about!

[indigo wadi]

Conjecture. No one but Thor knows if Thor lied/misrepresented and it's insane that ppl make that claim.

[worthy ivy]

'hey siri, remind me to check for SKG thor-hate posts in two years' 🙂

[lunar moth]

My good man... this is the stuff I spend my time studying and looking into just in general - understanding propaganda and political movements, which is why I'm concerned.

[gloomy forge]

"I am extremely disappointed in Josh for saying these things. He is taking atheism at face value and not really looking into what the bible orginally said. I feel like this is Josh saying "atheism" is kinda my friend while I don't know anything about the bible, so I'll pre-emptively side with athetism even though I disagree with its points..."

Its very easy to see why people can be easily influenced into religious fundamentalism and extremism in general because all that tone is the same.

[cursive solar]

trolls are loud and they make easy to target people think that they are the majority and are important

[earnest cove]

Yeah that's why i didn't bother screenshoting the rest

[umbral gazelle]

Those 10 silent months of bullying xP /S

[earnest cove]

This person's is straight up justifying desth threats because "person is too aggressive"

[indigo wadi]

Is it possible that Thor misrepresented? Sure but if he did it's because of how vague it was.

[cursive solar]

so because you went to school, you can tell me how much people are doing it more for the drama? im clapping for you

[earnest cove]

So maaaaaany of these kinds of points in YouTube comment box

[indigo wadi]

"I do not with harm on anyone but..."

Yes you do or you wouldn't have tried to excuse it.

[earnest cove]

Exactly

[umbral gazelle]

"i also do not wish harm on anyone. however" This feels like a Im not a bigot BUT momment

[green plank]

you know, if thor was a girl ... how would all this talk of "i dont like your tone of voice 😡 " come off...

something worth thinking about

[edgy oar]

I wholeheartedly recommend people get off Twitter as fast as possible and never look back. The most vile people are on that site and you will always see the most unhinged takes. Better for your mental health to just never log in there again.

[deft charm]

For SKG to post an offical dead game list, I wonder how long it would actually be if it was actually dead games, and then let people see THAT list. Doubt very many would care of what's left.. I could see how Thor would be annoyed knowing the MANY other issues in the games industry, and THESE games the ones with this movement behind.

[gloomy forge]

that however is like a huge red flag.

"the guy is like a fine dude, however because he is [INSERT ARBITRARY PIECE OF INFORMATION] he deserves all the shit he gets.]

also insane victim blaming there in the comment.

[green plank]

it feels really weird

[turbid flower]

Victim blaming 101.
"Perpitrator" wouldn't be doing "blank" if only the "Victim" had just don't/didn't do "blank"

[idle hill]

How to lose your argument in 1 sentence: "I don't think this, but here's why I do."

[earnest cove]

Everything after the "but" is the real thought, doctor k said thet too

[spare trellis]

reporting people on twitter also does absolutely nothing because trust and safety hasnt existed since twitter got bought

[gloomy forge]

@edgy oar not true, its Twitter, Reddit, Facebook, in parts 4chan, some of twitch, some of youtube (never read the comment section). X is only part of the problem.

[indigo wadi]

I've been off it for 5+ years

[umbral gazelle]

Quiting twitter and league of legends has done wonders for my mental health.

[cursive solar]

why do people even play league

[idle hill]

I post my art on Twitter, most of my audience is there. So I have no reason to go elsewhere.

[gloomy forge]

Or be a gigachad and browse social media but deactivate every comment/form of text and only look at images

[edgy oar]

Yeah but Twitter is the only place I've seen people tell a minor to slit their throats because they didn't like the art they drew. Real story btw.

[indigo wadi]

The salt mines

[lunar moth]

Not what I said but if that helps you sleep at night, go off I guess.

[cursive solar]

ah, valid

[edgy oar]

Nice dog.

[gloomy forge]

Thats every social media place, you just haven't noticed yet.

[nova bough]

its a species of watercat

[idle hill]

Oh hey I saw one of those the other day

[indigo wadi]

Discord, yt and twitch are my only social media things I use

[serene valley]

That definitely exists in the other places too, just less public in some than in others

[umbral gazelle]

https://tenor.com/view/is-this-a-pigeon-butterfly-gif-16186537

[gloomy forge]

I mean i use discord as well but its kinda curated heavily on my end, gonna stay sane somehow

[indigo wadi]

Stop with the disrespect

[deft charm]

Whatever happened to voting with your dollar? Maybe give your money to devs that support their creations instead of giving money to huge corporations, then crying to big daddy govt to control ALL developers because they did something you didn't like. Then do it again the next year, and the next year, and the next year.

[cursive solar]

he was being disrespectful to me so i can too

it is what it is

[indigo wadi]

No he wasn't.

Even then, be better

[deft charm]

FIFA is on the list ELEVEN times

[umbral gazelle]

reason why i dont buy ubisoft games anymore. i realised i can just buy other games from devs and publishers i like

[gloomy forge]

same goes with every other social media place, i restrict myself. When I see a bad thing I don't write about that I get angry I time myself out theres no need to be upset.

[indigo wadi]

What?

[astral crypt]

absolutely not. Your comment has been deleted. This is an official warning to be respectful.

[cursive solar]

nope, if someone isnt respectful ill treat them the same way, im not playing high ground games

[indigo wadi]

My dude, you can just not respond.

[idle hill]

Two wrongs don't make a right, have you never heard of it?

[astral crypt]

If someone is disrespectful, you report it to the mods and you disengage.

[edgy oar]

And this is how stuff spirals into stupidity.

[nova bough]

more watercats

[gloomy forge]

This sort of happened in the UK parliament already, they sort of released a statement saying "just call consumer protection LUL" someone posted the statement on here a few days ago.

[dusky grove]

I leave for like 5 minutes... what happened?

[edgy oar]

These people don't know how to not respond

[indigo wadi]

"Don't recommend channel/not interested" on YouTube is wonderful

[indigo wadi]

Mmhmm

[green plank]

i actually recently have been using that

[deft charm]

https://stopkillinggames.wiki.gg/wiki/Dead_game_list Fifa is on the list 11 times, WWE 8 times, You have stuff like Infinity blade on there 3 times, listed as dead. Even though the devs have already put out their games to just download

[green plank]

any time thor was in a thumbnail i used that as an indicator to remove the persons whole channel

[indigo wadi]

Wtf why? No one wants to play a 10 yr old version of fifa...

[green plank]

(:

[edgy oar]

Honestly I need to do this

[idle hill]

Are you sure?

[indigo wadi]

Well, they're already insane for wanting to play Fifa in the first place

[edgy oar]

Eh I wanna say untrue. I still play a 12 year old version of NBA 2K

[cursive solar]

am i cool to message you about something?

[gloomy forge]

What about the 5900 games on the Amiga and around 3800 games on the Commodore 64? I want them all archived and downloadable legally . I'd buy full packs for thousands of dollars if they're in working condition. Games deserve better.

[green plank]

curently "turkey tom" "destiny" and some other random smaller people have all been removed

[dusky grove]

I mean. I still sub to JSH. The last thing i want is to be in an echo chamber about this

[astral crypt]

Make a moderation ticket.

[deft charm]

The thing is, it works fine. It's on the list because the multiplayer component of the PS3 and x360 don't work. But it's on the list even though you can still play it locally just fine

[indigo wadi]

All EA sports games are pure slop. I can't understand why ppl play em

[cursive solar]

well, whatever then

[indigo wadi]

That's the literal process.

[gloomy forge]

A sane and good mindset there thats true for a lot of things. also Josh was super reasonable.

[edgy oar]

Some of the older games are good.

[cursive solar]

did the other guy make a moderation ticket?

[indigo wadi]

Hrm...I suppose

[gloomy forge]

@indigo wadi I 100% disagree with you, I almost only play older games, some 40+ years old.

[edgy oar]

That's none of your business

[indigo wadi]

No no, older games are fantastic.

[astral crypt]

If you want to discuss moderation issues, make a mod ticket.