streamchat

[jolly sky]

Notepad.exe is a fine program

Don't need it

[indigo wadi]

not notepad++? peasant

[frigid crown]

same, got a server with just myself for that reason

[jolly sky]

So is notepad

[spice tulip]

I understand what you mean however I think overall it is a really good movement especially for AAA studios. It starts the talk about a lot of problems with "Owning games"

[frigid crown]

How is the ironman experience in RS3 if you happen to know? I just hate feeling like content isn't worth it because I could be more efficient doing something with more gp/h to get what I want

[azure knoll]

Fellow osrs player 🤝

[indigo wadi]

hi shaye

[jolly sky]

Again, Thor didn't hate the Initiative, just the methods and that fundamental things would need to change, which would limit game creativity and the making of them for the worse

[spice tulip]

It's not a net negative, it could use some work but it seems kinda rude to just be like na that sucks all of it

[frigid crown]

Been a scaper since I was a little scamp playing in the library

[azure knoll]

My man

[jolly sky]

He also didn't say all of it sucks

[sinful marten]

[late vortex]

i haven't played OSRS since the membership started

[brittle jacinth]

yes the idea behind it is good BUT for how its phrase now in the document theres many holes than can and will make it invalid so thrown out or will be enforce how the general public don't want

[untold seal]

Has there been any AA, solo gsme devs with a popular game that has commented on SKG, for or against it ?

[frigid crown]

Ahh okay I'll probably give it another chance at some point, mostly just not used to the UI or the abilities and what not

[ripe minnow]

I think i see a big issue with the actual SKG petition but i'm not a lawyer or know EU law enough to see if it's actually a issue

[jolly sky]

No because they weren't reached out to, and also developers in studios don't want to speak out in fear of losing their jobs

[brittle jacinth]

and depending how its applied it could hurt small/indie dev

[peak skiff]

What is OSRS?

[azure knoll]

Old school runescape

[gaunt oak]

He in fact repeatedly say the opposite and that he liked a lot of it loll

[outer gust]

the best game

[azure knoll]

Game of all time

[outer gust]

im a little displeased with some stuff jagex is doing recently but the game is phenomenal

[indigo wadi]

hard disagree 😛

[peak skiff]

Ah thanks, I'm very tired and stupid

[indigo wadi]

5 minutes of my life i'll never get back when I played it years ago

[azure knoll]

It's okay I am also taking my stupid pills today

[untold seal]

Fair enough if someone is in a studio, but figured solo game devs with a popular non live service would have spoken about it?

[jolly sky]

Indeed he did, just not the methodology, or how it could very easily screw over small time or indie devs completely out of money, and their game

[teal zodiac]

man, its impossible not to laugh during those scam calls, idk how Thor and Kitboga were holding themselves

[frigid crown]

Same, haven't found anything that's held me as long as it has though

[jolly sky]

Well they weren't invited to offer their opinions or ideas, even though they stood to lose the most from it.

[inland flame]

Thor didn't hate the Initiative
the clip that started all of this had thor saying extremely hateful things towards the movement.
how can you say that is not thor explicitly hating it.

[gaunt oak]

Post the clip

[jolly sky]

Key point here

"The clip"

[indigo wadi]

he liked the spirit, he didn' tlike the wording

[spice tulip]

It's still pretty bad just looking at the stuff he's said about it

[indigo wadi]

watch Thor's 2 videos

where he goes over it

[spice tulip]

I'll look for more clips and stuff

[indigo wadi]

and not "clips"

no

[spice tulip]

Ye

[indigo wadi]

watch his actual 2 videos

[jolly sky]

Watch his 2 videos on it for his opinions on it.

[brittle jacinth]

^ and they did

[sinful marten]

I just came from Charlie’s live and I gotta say I like the atmosphere here more. People are baiting over there hard on the situation

[indigo wadi]

naturally

[inland flame]

you know what i asked and you did not answer it.

[indigo wadi]

go watch thors 2 videos and try again

[jolly sky]

No I don't, becuase you're using one clip as the entire context, When that clip is not what his actual thoughts are

[indigo wadi]

if your'e gonna reference a random clip and not his videos on the matter, then you don't have a leg to stand on and are arguing in bad faith

[brittle jacinth]

baiting in like ragebaiting or in other kind

[thick ledge]

If I had a nickel for every citrus themed account that was critical of Thor, I'd have 2 nickels, which isn't alot, but it's wierd that it happened twice

[peak skiff]

Just because you watched a guy watch a guy watch a guy watch a 10 sec clip of Thor criticize the movement, doesn't make you an expert on the entire context

[sinful marten]

Someone paid posted a comment saying Thor was posting Charlie’s tweets in this discord

[weak spindle]

Huh

[sinful marten]

So I came in to see no posts of such thing

[ocean agate]

why does it always feel like shit hits the fan on Tuesday.....

[indigo wadi]

roflmao

[frigid crown]

At risk of joining back into this again, as a resident SKG supporter I don't think this is helpful in any way. I wish things were handled differently on both sides but I also see both sides. This kind of the discussion just seeking to blame one party or another isn't doing anything

[tribal hare]

when did glowing names become a thing

[frozen nimbus]

Huh?......

[indigo wadi]

pride month

[frozen nimbus]

Oh nvm I see lol

[weak spindle]

Just now

[brittle jacinth]

its totaly ok if you think its a good thing

[peak skiff]

Anyways

[brazen drift]

we're discussing it in a fairly civil manner I'd say, but if you're gonna make a video with as much emotion and petty highschool drama that charlie put out then of course all the chatters are gonna be jumping at the bit

[thick ledge]

Chat I know your having a serious discussion but

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▶ Play video

[brittle jacinth]

theres no good or bad opinion

[thick ledge]

Look at this shitpost game

[exotic locust]

Charlie absolutely put gas on the flame

[tribal hare]

what color is citrus

[sinful marten]

I support Thor 100%

[frozen nimbus]

Peak

[gaunt oak]

But that would give context and prove that this is nothing more than slandar and harassment in the name of their Dear Leader Ross and has at no point ever been anything other than a campaign to harass people that dont agree with everything in the initiative 1,000,000%.

It didn't reply in the other, my bad

[frozen nimbus]

Mango

[waxen comet]

isnt that a paradox

[tribal hare]

what color is mango

[frozen nimbus]

Citrus

[waxen comet]

tehres green and yellow mango

[frozen nimbus]

[weak spindle]

It's mango color

[brittle jacinth]

maybe idk

[teal zodiac]

the new Berserk animation is better thn the original one

[thick ledge]

So true

[indigo wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-star-no-this-is-patrick-spongebob-angry-mad-gif-9319809

[frozen nimbus]

Ok sure ig if thats what you want

[thick ledge]

We outta vaporize all game developers

[frigid crown]

I mean unless we're talking about how people see different colors that wouldn't be an opinion I think

[ocean agate]

i dont think an opinion has to be true or false, but when you pass it as a fact it does

[tribal hare]

so it could be anyone of us

[frozen nimbus]

🤷‍♂️

[brittle jacinth]

maybe idk never watch it

[frozen nimbus]

Mood fr

[jolly sky]

Alright, you're getting a #mod-ticket for the one /j

[golden latch]

https://tenor.com/view/spy-gif-22037253

[peak skiff]

Ah yes, roblox HP

[tribal hare]

omg theres a citrus pfp chatter

[tight bramble]

"I baked you a pie!"
"What flavor?"
"PIE FLAVOR!"
-sick ass guitar riff-

[indigo wadi]

i laughed harder than i should have

[warm trench]

Where time becomes a loop

[frigid crown]

oh boy

[jolly sky]

Go on then, stop doing it

[thick ledge]

https://tenor.com/view/video-games-gif-7615702

Wait shit

[indigo wadi]

im just gonna emote respond at this point

[untold seal]

Video games are for losers. Real men play pickleball

[thick ledge]

Why didn't you say so sooner

[indigo wadi]

im too tired for words

[sinful marten]

Im off to bed, I like it here more

[warm trench]

Salt on Watermelon?

[peak skiff]

Or croquet

[thick ledge]

Have a nice night akuma

[tight bramble]

No its ok, the console was talking MAD shit

[thick ledge]

It's true...

[jolly sky]

Nah man, the new hotness is Shuffleboard

[thick ledge]

This is a curling community actually

[indigo wadi]

curling

[warm trench]

Slice of cheddar cheese on piece of hot apple pie?

[jolly sky]

Nah we're too old for curling

[indigo wadi]

get outta my head

[peak skiff]

Excuse y'all

[thick ledge]

TETSUO

[ripe minnow]

KANEDA

[golden latch]

How about table shuffle board?

[exotic locust]

TETSUO

[indigo wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/loud-noises-anchorman-yelling-yell-gif-5294834

[jolly sky]

That I could get behind, saves me from bending down too much

[weak spindle]

That poor boar

[glossy arrow]

Dm leaks were deleted?

[weak spindle]

He's getting shuffled :(

[ripe minnow]

I wish i could do curling in the states it looks fun

[warm trench]

Banana and peanut butter or pickle and peanut butter sandwiches?

[thick ledge]

If your dm is leaking, please drive them to the hospital

[frigid crown]

I think I've played that once in my life and I don't even remember what the building I was in was for, I think maybe some kind of hotel?

[peak skiff]

Would you rather have unlimited games but no bacon, or unlimited games but no games?

[indigo wadi]

if theres leaks, we need a plumber

[warm trench]

Ketchup on Steak or Steak well done?

[jolly sky]

Better call Mar-

Oh wait I can't Thor killed him apparently

[tight bramble]

No its about the snout, hes getting snuffled 😀

[thick ledge]

Mario has been atomized

[indigo wadi]

then truffled?

https://tenor.com/view/the-goonies-wiggle-fat-kid-truffle-shuffle-gif-4950425

[peak skiff]

Allegedly

[tight bramble]

Then snuggled

[weak spindle]

Awwh good for him

[brittle jacinth]

its still amaze me that people enter the server just cause of the drama

[warm trench]

Pineapple and Pepperoni pizza?

[thick ledge]

I mean hey

If they can be chill

[indigo wadi]

they need their dose of drama or they'lldie

[thick ledge]

They're welcome to stay

[brittle jacinth]

yeah true forgot that we all needed that to live

[jolly sky]

As soon as shit flinging starts....

https://tenor.com/view/happy-gilmore-comedy-ben-stiller-keep-quiet-your-dead-gif-3455215

[indigo wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/korysverse-koryverse-gorilla-throwing-poop-gif-25294472

[golden latch]

Btw how is the mcdonalds video treating ya?

[peak skiff]

What about flit shinging?

[fallen basin]

POV: Waking up Thor

[golden latch]

Im kinda going nuts

[thick ledge]

McDonald's video?

[golden latch]

Gongo

[thick ledge]

Ohhh

[ocean agate]

i heard some where that the mods are cooking bread on their cpu....not sure if its true

[golden latch]

Ronald is here

[tight bramble]

Omg hahahaha

[thick ledge]

I'm not ongoing atm

Gongoing

[golden latch]

May be for the better

[indigo wadi]

you bake bread

not cook it

[peak skiff]

They would be

[jolly sky]

https://tenor.com/view/bitcoin-gorilla-rd_btc-strike_memes-laser-eyes-gif-26376636

[brittle jacinth]

wait isn't cooking and baking the same thing?

[ocean agate]

and i should have gone to bed hours ago......so idc, lol

[tight bramble]

Slide cancel to fan service combo goes wild

[golden latch]

Baking is a form of cooking

But baking isnt limited to making food

[brazen drift]

Cooking is less exact. Baking is fairly exact

[golden latch]

You can bake pottery for example

[peak skiff]

Then what's really exact?

[brazen drift]

Pastry

[golden latch]

Chemistry

[jolly sky]

Chemical compounds

Ayyyy

[proper phoenix]

die !!!!

stake sauce is the way

[ocean agate]

in the US baking is still not exact that why we dont weigh shit and it comes out bad

[brazen drift]

Hey

I weight my shit

[tight bramble]

Bruh, wut?

[brittle jacinth]

okkk.....

[peak skiff]

Like Nile Red making a chemically exact CC cookie?

[proper phoenix]

new account

seem like a bait

[jolly sky]

https://tenor.com/view/jim-carrey-look-hint-allusion-eyes-gif-15443059

[brittle jacinth]

just joined

[frigid crown]

Hey now I got some local bakeries that make some great food

[proper phoenix]

and acc created ytd

bait account ?

no wait

acc created 5 day ago

[ocean agate]

thats like saying you cant advocate for animal rights since your human

[teal zodiac]

am i being too naive when thinking that some peeps might come just to know both sides of the story?

[peak skiff]

Seen it, absolutely hysterical

[warm trench]

Waffles or Pancakes?

[indigo wadi]

CREPES

[earnest spire]

waffles are crispy

[jolly sky]

https://tenor.com/view/no-nope-lord-of-war-nic-cage-gif-887568148526651318

[frigid crown]

Some probably are but if the only thing they are doing is shit flinging or just saying wild stuff then they aren't really here in good faith, won't say definitely because I haven't really looked at when people joined all the time

[peak skiff]

I second

[brittle jacinth]

yeah maybe it's possible but with what i've seen on the internet i've relly no hopes on people doing that

[golden latch]

They do but some are just “shit stirring” trying to cause issues cause they find entertainment in it.

[ocean agate]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/385308742?filter=all&sort=time

[tight bramble]

What is going on.....

[indigo wadi]

are we ginger cats?

[glossy arrow]

Im here for the 🍵

[ripe minnow]

damn now i want crepes

[indigo wadi]

SEE?

crepes are superior

[frigid crown]

Have a good night Stapel

[ocean agate]

i havent had crepes in forever, but they sound good

[peak skiff]

Ok hear me out

[warm trench]

Nalesniki

[peak skiff]

Crepes with cheese and sausage

[brittle jacinth]

ok i'm french so is there a difference with pancake and crepe or its the same thing cause for me its the same word

[teal zodiac]

oh my god this is so much fun

[flint raft]

Pancakes are thicker

[tight bramble]

The chicken florentine crepes at ihop are wonderful

[peak skiff]

Exactly

[frigid crown]

As a US cit, that is what I think of when people say pancake, dunno what they are like in other places

[peak skiff]

Same with chicken and waffles

[ember ember]

One day we'll get the triple collab with Thor, Kit, and ScammerPayBack

[teal zodiac]

i saved the video to watch later but i cant stop now, this is really good

[tight bramble]

Personally I can't stand pancakes. But I'll destroy waffles, French toast, and crepes.

Don't know why

[teal zodiac]

is that the one that sent the glitter bomb to the scam building?

[frigid crown]

I'll eat all of those, I ain't gonna complain about em they are all tasty to me

[ember ember]

Pancakes are good when they don't absorb the syrup .00001 secs after applying it

[iron olive]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuTp4Am51i0

[ember ember]

Could be I haven't watched his videos in like a few months. Guy is an amazing person for what he does though

[warm trench]

I like pancakes to absorb butter and syrup to the maximum.

[teal zodiac]

i dont usually have time to catch streams live but damn...i really regret missing this one with Kit

[proper phoenix]

thats too sweat

[jolly sky]

Check it out guys, completely new video that we had no idea existed up until right this very moment

[thick ledge]

So sweat

[carmine stump]

I like the thick style Belgium waffles with the lil chunks of strawberry in em 🤤🧇🍓

[thick ledge]

I was just ignoring it tbh

[proper phoenix]

thats like having butter and syrup and a side of pankake

[warm trench]

It's good once in a while - sweet spongy goodness

[brittle jacinth]

certain it wasnt brought up the moment it went live..

[late bane]

Back from a few days off, I see a fair bit happened

[thick ledge]

I've done my arguing I'm just here to shitpost now

[proper phoenix]

now it exist bc someone brought uit up

[iron olive]

and what was his reaction?

[brittle jacinth]

dont know we are not him and cannot speek at his place

[proper phoenix]

idt he watched it yet

[thick ledge]

Acorn is a death stranding 2 fan

[iron olive]

Has he learnt nothing from his interaction with Dr K ?

[brittle jacinth]

has anyone triied death stranding 2 cause from what i've seen and heard its good?

[proper phoenix]

i for once are in favor of the skg movement
sad to see it might not see the light of day

[thick ledge]

Send image send

[brittle jacinth]

dont know we are not him and cannot speek at his place

[proper phoenix]

[azure glen]

You should ask him!

[tight bramble]

The struggle is real, huh? Lol

[iron olive]

We can speculate, we can not accuse without evidence.

[brittle jacinth]

if you want a response on something : "dont know we are not him and cannot speek at his place"

[serene valley]

Guess what just happened in general chat

[proper phoenix]

i have the full death strading 1 dlc

[frigid crown]

Listen man this isn't actually contributing anything to the discussion, just going after a person isn't doing anything.

[proper phoenix]

on epic tho

[thick ledge]

Whahappun

[proper phoenix]

i delete epic store already kek

[serene valley]

Ignoring the video happened

[thick ledge]

Sick

[brittle jacinth]

and you should not cause thats what get out of context most of the time

[ripe minnow]

I've seen 17+ hours of DS2 now and i love it as much as the first game but can't say anythign without spoilers; If you haven't played the 1st one then it won't make sense

[proper phoenix]

wtf

[carmine stump]

I couldn't send from a pic folder, but only from my recent images, discord seems picky today

[jolly sky]

Yes allow me to speculate into the mind of Thor....hmm....sorry my psychic abilities are not working today

[serene valley]

Is this 1 cheek or both

[thick ledge]

Pirate ass Jerky wtf lol

[late bane]

I like to imagine it as a ferret in a wheel turning a power generator

[tight bramble]

Yeah discord has just straight up noted as lot of my memes. Not the automod, just "failed to send"

[ripe minnow]

Action Dan failed his skelepathy roll

[glossy arrow]

Oh wow this is crazy

[serene valley]

Thor always says "they can eat my entire ass" <Chat asks both cheeks> "yes both cheeks"

[frigid crown]

Is Nett Det (10fg) just AI making up shit or is something I'm just too english brained to recognize

[proper phoenix]

i will not eat anyone ass

[carmine stump]

Yeah , that's what mine said too, nothing bad either, just cats

[serene valley]

Its the rare unit "fword grams" for when you are mad and have to measure out a weight

[azure glen]

That's ok, but you can if you'd like

[tight bramble]

Man my reply had HELLA typos lmao

[proper phoenix]

i for once does not enjoy such a thought so i would say no

[carmine stump]

Maybe one or two lolz

[teal zodiac]

This is too much, i cant take this anymore

[warm trench]

fg -> femto gram. 10^-15

[serene valley]

Or alternatively it's the grams for when you're going "eh, f it, close enough"

[azure glen]

I'm not assking you to, just stating that the option is open

[ripe minnow]

it's so good though

[warm trench]

Was trying to get the hang of some 3d... Model was pretty flexible.

[tight bramble]

"I am music in motion"

[brittle jacinth]

you may want to check up his left knee.... if its the left knee

[proper phoenix]

i have no voice

yet i must scream

[frigid crown]

Damn that shrinkflation really hitting hard if they're measuring out femto grams of jerky

[ripe minnow]

need to use notepad++

[tight bramble]

What kind of music, you ask? Gmod ragdoll physics, baby!

[warm trench]

Another perspective

[tight bramble]

"Welcome to the car crash!"
-shattering glass-

[brittle jacinth]

was worried about the kneee....

It's worse.. I think he's dead

[warm trench]

"Slipped on some tea"

[placid plover]

opens twitter
"insert hateful speech*
welp thats enough twitter for the week 😂
anyways whats up chat

[ocean agate]

......your name will not save you from the mods

[brittle jacinth]

hope you didn't do that to add fuel

[serene valley]

"so, you must be wondering how I got here. Well it all started...."

[placid plover]

nah, just a personal meme from my experience on twitter

not fueling anything

[frigid crown]

Oh for sure, any time I get curious and open up twitter I remember why I don't go on there

[placid plover]

bread 👍

[brittle jacinth]

same at least my algo is not as f*ck as some

[mossy storm]

content creator discords be crazy when the content creator is the villain of the week

[flint raft]

…bro I’m just chillin

[brittle jacinth]

its not that worse here. yes there's up and down but its ok in general

[warm trench]

a loop. Time becomes

[brittle jacinth]

has it never been this

[warm trench]

Orbital - The Moebius

[glossy arrow]

Vim

[proper phoenix]

the new villain

[tight bramble]

Menger sponge! 😀

[placid plover]

this always makes me laugh cause every time I type here I swear someone always makes a joke about bread for the mods 😂

[teal zodiac]

NO FREAKING WAY that the scammer is actually fighting to protect Edna against Richard, the brother of Brad Pitt!!
This is so crazy!! I'm melting here!!
I'm loving every second of this video

[brittle jacinth]

some scammers are selfish so if they can't have it nobody else will

[cloud island]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-bread-meme-googly-eyes-lick-gif-4828919955563198017

[teal zodiac]

Watch out Edna Martha Wilson!!! That investment is probably not a good idea!!!

[jolly sky]

https://youtu.be/ZOHGC0zptGQ

[opal bronze]

need to do more of that id love to personally see it, or do it privately if not already

[waxen comet]

you rotates some of the bones the wrong way

at least yours doesnt have the hair mesh move whilst moving their arm

[warm trench]

Yea, I was like wait...that's bad.

[waxen comet]

and its not even a painted hair texture

its literally the hair mesh

its own thing

then this weird mesh of the hair stretches to infinity when you try to make the model flex their arm in any way

[tight bramble]

Look all you have to do is hit pause, go to options, the ln graphics, then turn on nvidia hairwerks, then hit accept. It's that easy

-some idiot on the internet who doesn't understand game dev.

[tight bramble]

Look all you have to do is hit pause, go to options, the ln graphics, then turn on nvidia hairwerks, then hit accept. It's that easy

-some idiot on the internet who doesn't understand game dev.

[waxen comet]

why did you type it twice

[tight bramble]

......

I didnt....

[waxen comet]

on my end its double

[tight bramble]

Yeah same here.....

[spare topaz]

it could be discord doing discord things

[brittle jacinth]

mine too

[tight bramble]

-sigh-
Dammit dude....I'm sorry I was just trying to be sarcastic

[round bolt]

Strange, I look in this channel and there aren't arguments flying

[brittle jacinth]

don't talk of them.... they are waiting for the right moment or sleeping...

it'll probably come back up in a few hours

as always

[spare topaz]

considering its currently 2am on the US east coast, id wager sleeping

[teal zodiac]

Edna is getting double scammed by Richard and Alex
this now became Spy x Spy
I'm loving this whole soap opera that brewed

[warm trench]

Edna mode

[spare topaz]

oooo are you watching the kitboga collab? that was phenomenal

[tight bramble]

Honestly that's been my goal, to provide sarcastic levity to the chat. Even small chuckles make a difference.

[warm trench]

I heard Chucklenuts once used in a sentence.

[brittle jacinth]

Chucklenuts???

[teal zodiac]

Yes!! i'm loving every second of this video

[tight bramble]

I use chucklef*ck all the time

[teal zodiac]

Richard, the brother of Brad Pitt, vs Alex and Adam

"are you also interested in cornography" NO WAY lol

[spare topaz]

and the AI that runs on steam giftcards

[teal zodiac]

"I used all the steam gift cards to fix her computer"

[tight bramble]

"DO NOT REDEEM!!"

[teal zodiac]

Only Real Millenium Corn Harvest Videos

[brittle jacinth]

if I was that guy i don't know if I would be happy knowing that i'm a scammer meme

[tight bramble]

A real scammer would sue for royalties

[brittle jacinth]

true

[teal zodiac]

MARCO, a new challenger approach!!!

[tight bramble]

Makes me thing of both super smash bros and skyrim

[exotic locust]

The do not redeem short never fails to lift my spirits in the worst of days. I had a user at work (I do frontline IT for a large hospital chain in my state) and I had a call where this person was entitled, denigrating me, absolutely shitting on me and saying they would call back and get someone else who knew the issue (I understood the issue he was facing, but I interupted him to try and explain what he had.)

After the call, I played the Do not redeem short. It's like mental first aid for me.

[teal zodiac]

its a steam powered boat!!!!
NO WAY

this is precious

[exotic locust]

Lol, that would be like the 'Hide your kids, hide your wives, and hide your husbands because they...' If the actual perpetrator of that tried to sue for uh... creative licensing?

idk

[mossy timber]

remember when whole cities would be designed around the Segway?

[warm trench]

That kinda went over a cliff... when... oh.

[tight bramble]

I mean techno viking did just that and won

[teal zodiac]

this is pure cinema!!!

[mossy timber]

https://tenor.com/view/absolute-cinema-jane-doe-zzz-zenless-zone-zero-gif-5205700925222114759

[teal zodiac]

EDNA!! Dont - Listen - To - This - HuMaN

my-brother-generated.png
No way, NO FREAKING WAY, this is gold

[round bolt]

Isn't that one of those bad photoshops that that lady fell for a scam from?

[teal zodiac]

Richard is way too powerful

Kitboga seems like one hell of a chill guy

[exotic locust]

Jim Browning seems like a nice dude also

[teal zodiac]

After seeing all this my hot take is that it seems like working a normal job is way less work thn working on those scams, looks like a lot of effort and a lot of people involved for each call

[thick ledge]

Chat help I keep sneezing

HELP

[carmine stump]

Just stop sneezing. Bam. Solved it.

[thick ledge]

https://tenor.com/view/sneezing-cat-gif-8949442

[teal zodiac]

is there a solid explanation why so many of those scam companies are placed in India?

[mossy timber]

https://tenor.com/view/husky-sneeze-husky-sneeze-explosion-explode-gif-14674160078283548346

[ivory schooner]

my gut says exploitation and lack of a system that enforces other means of economic stability

[mossy timber]

probably legal loopholes and people they have well bribed alongside they already have all the call center infrastructure

[ivory schooner]

I dont think people do it because they love scamming people, they do it because they need to make money, right?

[mossy timber]

Some of the scam centers have a legit call center work in the same building

[tight bramble]

BAH! There, scared ya! Oh wait, that's hiccups

[teal zodiac]

kinda, but still this would go for many other types of crimes as well

[exotic locust]

not just that it's part of the same building, but part of the same business. There are front companies that can be pointed to

[mossy timber]

It's like some of the counterfit product production, once the legit production shift is over the counterfit shift begins

[carmine stump]

Some of them are prisoners and forced to do so

[teal zodiac]

Maybe a wild guess would be that they have accessible english courses, even on school, this helps immensely to scam a lot of countries

[ivory schooner]

its not like those scam centers go un punished tho, Ive seen reports and photos from scam baiters of the deli police arresting entire call centers at once

[teal zodiac]

I cant feel any ounce of mercy when i see that it involves scamming old people

[ivory schooner]

true, they've condemned themselves to their own fate, but im saying its not simply for the fun of it

[mossy timber]

depends on the call center I'm sure, some do apply universal lubricant

[round bolt]

I've met a couple of old people that deserve to be scammed

But I know that doesn't make it okay.

[teal zodiac]

ok, i need to rest a bit, but first

who else does content like this? i wanna take a look later

[teal zodiac]

Found his channel, perfect!! thanks

Wish you all a good rest and a good day 🦉

[wet storm]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-explosion-stairs-gif-26161925

[mossy timber]

https://tenor.com/view/apocalypsenow-horror-gif-4763006

[split copper]

It's not just as simple as 'just release the source' for, usually, at least a couple of reasons;

If we're talking about a scenario where the dev is going bust then the rights to the game, and thus what any group or individual can do with the game, its IP and its code, gets really complicated legally.

Even if this isn't the case, many online/live service games (mostly/especially the larger AAA ones) aren't a self-contained unit where you can just release the server executable in a neat little package for people to self-host. They tend to be heavily integrated into external/proprietary service frameworks (think battle.net, GFWL or deep integration into cloud server hosting infrastructure)

[mossy timber]

https://tenor.com/view/i-want-it-all-i-want-it-now-queen-gif-14505261

[brazen drift]

i see it twice

i think discords dying for me

[fluid dome]

Morning

[autumn niche]

one thing i will say about SKG is their petition to the Australian government got knocked back with the minister effectively saying "we already got laws in place under the ACL, ACCC, and fair trading to prevent the thing you'd like. for further investigation go to the ACCC" they haven't gone to the ACCC in regards to it, because they're misrepresenting ACL especially with their claim of "undisturbed possession", also, their petition outlined for Australia effectively states that developers/publishers to hand over their rights to IP and copyright. outlined with

1. Require software sold in Australia to remain in a functional state after the end of the product’s support period, continuing to operate without any intervention from the publisher.
   and
2. Require publishers selling additional features/assets for their software to leave said software in a functional state after the end of the product’s support period, so customers can continue to utilise features/assets they purchased without any intervention from the publisher.
   as for misrepresenting ACL
3. Establish that these requirements supercede software End-User License Agreements, as many such licenses attempt to strip customers’ right to ownership over their purchased goods, as guaranteed under schedule 2 of the Competition and Consumer Act 2010.

under ACL digital goods like video games purchased online are considered "license access"

[gentle mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/exploding-cat-cat-blowing-up-cat-explosion-gif-6096353006687676670

the wall

[autumn niche]

sorry i had to "wall" to add context for why it failed in Australia

[gentle mortar]

nah you fine i just catched the streamchat in the right moment when you posted it, no hate from me

[autumn niche]

hahah all good

[dusky grove]

Yknow... the whole "games should disclose that players only purchase liscenses, not the game itself" is kinda... i mean... we all know what the L in EULA means...

[autumn niche]

its also stated in the eula you're purchasing an access to the product that can be removed at anytime for any reason

[fluid dome]

https://tenor.com/view/i-have-played-these-games-before-seong-gi-hun-squid-game-i've-played-these-games-already-netflix-gif-16480153790313233198

[dusky grove]

They already do tell people that its just a liscense, but since gamers dont read we just check the box and stop caring about the eula

[autumn niche]

as for "the crew" the reason it would likely not be given to public to have their own private servers is licensing reasons over in game music, car brands, etc

[fluid dome]

I'm starting to wonder if the goal of SKG isn't even what they want us to think that it is and instead an end to live service as a whole

[autumn niche]

no, i don't think they want to end live service, i think its just misunderstanding laws in different countries around ownership/access as well as ip and copyright laws

[hardy ingot]

Well based on reading the takes on it from people who signed it, each of them has their own twisted idea of what it's about

[fluid dome]

That's the vibe I got from twitter.

[earnest spire]

due to the vague languague that thor was again?

[whole goblet]

Only thing about the crew it did had a single player mode I feel like only that should be playable but everything else it's EOL. (Ubisoft removing it from your library is still scummy though even if you can't use it) SKG is just way too vague through. People are being absolute monsters about it. It what scares me about becoming a game dev is the possibility of all the hate.

[hardy ingot]

Many people are in it to end live service games
Many are in it because they only care about a specific kind of game and it's included and they don't give a damn about collateral
I even saw some that are purely in it to make devs have a worse time

[jolly prism]

Most people just dislike Thor for one reason or another. Too many drama situations recently.

[whole goblet]

The last few I think of is the OnlyFangs thing (which that guild group imploded itself due to toxicity) and SKG part 2 is now

Oh yeah AoC

Drama

[autumn niche]

personally? i agree with the opinion games should be preserved, however, when it comes to online only games or online multiplayer games i disagree unless it can be converted to offline single player or co-op like payday franchise

[jolly prism]

It just keep popping back up like a bad rash. The replies usually don't help much either.

[fluid dome]

Live service games can be pretty predatory tbh from all the ones I've seen and played so having something in place to restrict those would be something I could get behind.

[hardy ingot]

I disagree even the latter should be enforced by law

[jolly prism]

The Dr. K thing reignited everything too.

[whole goblet]

People trying to use Dr. K against Thor is kinda felt pure evil tbh

[sturdy lotus]

A big problem I have with what SKG in its exact terms and concepts is actually happening right now with a game service called Byond. It's the game service behind Space Station 13 and a bunch of other games.

They have been being DDOSed for weeks, with demands that their source needs to be released and such things as that.

People are already doing that kind of thing right now. It feels like if it became LAW that the games need to be playable/have their server files made public at sunset, then, it is of benefit to bad actors to take advantage of those laws. If you wanted to run your own servers or whatever, it is to one's benefit to go wreck that service.

It's already happening RIGHT NOW WITHOUT those laws to small devs. So, I don't really think that making that be law will be a good thing.

[jolly prism]

Not gonna argue there but you could definitely see it coming.

[hardy ingot]

When you don't have a leg to stand on, anything goes for some people

[fluid dome]

Good luck getting rockstar to release the server binaries for GTA Online

[whole goblet]

I'm not surprised Mudar (Someordinarygamers) and Charlie (Mositcritial) talked about I really don't like those content creators because in my opinion those guys are drama milkers but Mudar is worst on that front.

[hardy ingot]

I mean it took them like 3 months just to accept when a guy managed to speed up their loadings by like 70%
They were fully prepared to go up in arms against him for it

If not for the backlash it caused immediately

[whole goblet]

I just came here for the chill vibes and ferrets

[timber ether]

yeah it's easier to ignore all criticism and label it as "dramafarming" than to try to listen and improve

[jolly prism]

As in all cases, we just need to follow the money trail for a situation to make sense. We need to find the person who keeps selling guns to Thor to keep shooting himself in the foot and stop them. With the supply cut Thor will hopefully stop and we can return to our regularly scheduled programming.

[dusky grove]

I do think thor needed that wake up call in the drk interview.

Emotional reactions have their place in showing humanity. Factual reactions show truth. Best to have both

[fluid dome]

Also when everyone talks about these so called private servers like tf2 and whatnot

Those are illegal right?

[hardy ingot]

Issue is there is no criticism, they are not addressing the concerns raised, they just moan about having their feefees hurt by Thor not sugarcoating stuff

[whole goblet]

I have evidence for Mudar doing this, due to tied being political content I can't share the link here and I don't want to bring much an up roar here. If you wanna stay civil about it I'm willing to dm to you. Only if you stay civil.

[languid jetty]

not illegal, just breach of contract

[dusky grove]

I dont know? Tf2 lets you access them through the client directly so...

It has a server browser

[hardy ingot]

TF2 are fine, WoW private servers you are up to Blizzard's mercy on whether you get cease and desist or not

[fluid dome]

Would being given a licence to run the server binaries as part of end of life vs actually having them publicly released be better?

[hardy ingot]

Depends if it would be a forced thing you have to do by law

If you have to do it, it's bad

[tribal canyon]

the issue is more IF its possible to run modern game servers than about licences, stuff like this isnt just a simple service anymore due to needing to design for scale

[hardy ingot]

It's also about the licenses that are not controlled by the devs/publishers

[languid jetty]

if the company can do it, someone can. ability to run servers is not the point here

[dusky grove]

If thats the case, whats stopping scummy people from attacking the live servers to force the game to shut down? Blizzard got DDOS'D earlier this year, imagine a smaller company.

Shut down, technically end of life, now said scummy owners rake in profits

[fluid dome]

Sorry if I'm asking odd questions or whatever, all of this is super confusing and everything I've seen of it just keeps making me confused on how it works

[tribal canyon]

example would be microsoft flight sim, to store all the map data is about 2 Petabyte of data, who hosts that?

[hardy ingot]

I mean, major companies get DDOS'd more like everyday, it's just very rarely those attacks actually succeed is when we notice it 😄

[dusky grove]

Its complicated for sure

[languid jetty]

no company wants to manage MORE license agreements and distribution after they've sunset something

[dusky grove]

True. Just the example that came to mind

[keen rock]

Don't apologise to asking questions. Asking is never wrong, because as those questions might seem odd, they are asked to further your understanding of a topic after all 🫂

[hardy ingot]

Here's an important thing also about the entire idea of "let people run it after sunset as long as they don't monetize it"... someone would have to watch that

State's not gonna do it (hopefully)

The devs don't have time to do it

Publishers in majority of cases don't have the resources to do it

[dusky grove]

"Hello, police. I'd like to report a crime. Yes, they're asking me to pay 1 dollar a month for a video game... hello... hello... they hung up"

[hardy ingot]

It's not possible to sustain, it would require a budget for every game that gets sunset to watch that it doesn't get monetized ever and that budget would be pretty damn high

[autumn niche]

the main issue with having dev's and publishers allow the public to run their own private servers when support is ended is ip and copyright laws. they HAVE to intervene if something violates their ip and copyright rights, if they don't intervene there is a high chance the dev/publisher will lose their rights to it.

[languid jetty]

that sort of thing is self-managing though. it's natural- people will opt to use the free ones rather than the paid ones.

[dusky grove]

And if the reason it gets sunset is because the product failed and they're broke now... well yeah

[hardy ingot]

That doesn't solve the issue, if they monetize it, they're breaching the new law, ignoring it is making the issue worse

[frosty spear]

You know so I rewatched the louis rossman video from 10 months ago responding to Thor and he brings a good point, how the hell was the initiative going to survive the lobbyists that straight up lie

[fluid dome]

This very much feels like a don't wake the bear type situation

[hardy ingot]

However there's noone to report it

And noone to take the reports

Because state's not gonna bother with some videogame asking you to pay to play some dead game

[dusky grove]

Oh thats true.

Say blizzard lets players host star craft 2 servers for years. If they lose the IP, they cant make starcraft 3

[languid jetty]

It would cost them money to operate and nobody would be giving them money. it would end on its own. it wouldn't necessarily need legal enforcement

[whole goblet]

Seems like they are not taking me up on that offer oh well.

[hardy ingot]

Yes, however the moment anyone paid for it for any reason, it's a breach of law, which is a problem

[fluid dome]

Also another thing

What's stopping companies from literally not making any games in the EU if laws are made from this initiative? If you have to bend the knee just so you have end of life, why bother producing works in that region ever?

[terse pelican]

Question for you all that's been discussing this for a while, The Iniative wants to preserve 'what' type of games exactly?

Singleplayer, Multiplayer, Live-Service, MMO's ?

[autumn niche]

all games from my understanding

[dusky grove]

Its vague and interpreted as ALL games

[hardy ingot]

by Ross's definition: ALL or none.

[whole goblet]

That's why I have an issue with ALL

[terse pelican]

I do have issue with ''All'' aswell

[hardy ingot]

He made it abundantly clear he only cares if it passes for ALL games

[fluid dome]

One should imagine sisyphus happy

[languid jetty]

by Ross it's all, initiative language targets "publishers that sell or license videogames"

[hardy ingot]

Right, correction ALL games that do have any way to generate income*

[frosty spear]

To add to this my own opinion, if let's presume(I'm not saying he did) Thor approached it in bad faith and because of that they couldn't muster the votes so by their own logic if thor didn't say anything and they got the votes, tf was it going to happen with the limp wristed attitude they have. I looked and neither someordinarygamers or moistcritical the 2 biggest channels have made any videos on the topic to drum up support, accursedfarms also hasn't done much to spread the message as in the last 10 months as a european I haven't seen people talk about it ong game related subs or forums or whatever.

[fluid dome]

Idk that seems like a speed-run to killing an entire genre of games

[dusky grove]

For singleplayer stuff like expedition 33 and blue prince, yeah preserve those and all their dlc because it doesn't require active upkeep or patches. Its one and done. By all means it would be the same as buying a cartridge or disk back in the old days

[hardy ingot]

no, no, just majority of games that have any online features

[fluid dome]

Except what happens when Steam shuts down?

[terse pelican]

Gotta be careful of all the ''What ifs''

[fluid dome]

Alan Wake 2 still doesn't have a physical release btw

[autumn niche]

gabe has said he has plans in place to prevent you from losing access to games in the case valve shuts down

[terse pelican]

You'll enter a rabbit hole with a million what-ifs

[whole goblet]

As of right now steam is too massive to think about it

[frosty spear]

This whole initiative was doomed from the start because of the people running it wanting more to feel self righteous and just and not do the work

[hardy ingot]

Which is why there isn't a simple solution and why the initiative cannot work with its current proposals and goals

Every "what if" is incredibly important especially since apparently none have been asked while writing the initiative

[frosty spear]

The alters has a good song about that go listen to it on youtube

[fluid dome]

Unfortunately all I really have here is hypotheticals bc we're dealing with something that hasn't been implemented yet

[dusky grove]

And this is why Skg has some good points. If possible, I think single player games should be a product purchase not a liscense purchase. Physical copies, or downloads that just have the entire game with no need for an internet connection to maintain. Thats what SKGs scope should have been

[terse pelican]

The basic idea is fine ''Preserve Videogames'', But you have to make clear lines as to what is possible to preserve, and what is not possible to preserve given 'current' Laws and Regulations

[dusky grove]

The problem is they overscoped and didn't consider logistics

[hardy ingot]

It's not even an issue of Laws and Regulations, it's just common sense

[whole goblet]

This is something I always wanted to say on going against anything you need to be precise. You can't be vague on anything if you want something to change. Vagueness would cause issues leading to lost in the end

[terse pelican]

I'd say both, since neither is mutually exclusive

[hardy ingot]

If 1000 things are going to go out the window that the game being "preserved" relied upon, it's not realistic to expect to try and keep it afloat

[autumn niche]

it is when it comes to IP laws and copyright laws. for example in their petition to the Australian government they state that devs and publishers are to no longer intervene when they no longer support the game if they were to allow private servers

[summer marsh]

Well to clarify, the SKG initiative isn't proposing a plan to change anything. From what I gather it's just supposed to get the ball rolling in the legal field so that a tangible discussion can begin.

[dusky grove]

Ngl, the more we talk about SKG the more I'm thinking Ross poured thousands into a gacha game that shut down and is now going scorched earth LOL

[hardy ingot]

What I meant is if people want to preserve games, either everything HAS TO include a physical copy or someone HAS TO preserve the entire internet because no matter how well you preserve a steam game, the moment steam goes out, it's gone, if there's a plan to keep the game available through some other site, what happens when that one goes out? and the next one, and the next one

[formal sun]

I signed it, not interested in live service games being ended, nor am I looking for a particular game to be given offline capabilities for when its live service ends, I signed it because people should not paying money and losing access to a game due to a company's unwillingness to implement an offline patch, whether that game becomes " boring and not in the moment " that should not deter game preservation and the lack of this only reinforces extremely scummy practices from companies, a consumer should own the game they bought.

[uncut sundial]

And this is why the correct approach is "I can see flaws here, let's discuss it and refine it into something that works with existing laws" not "this is dogshit and I'm going to actively sabotage it"

[terse pelican]

Being vague to lawmakers is fine and all so that you can flesh it out, but Being vague to consumers generally doesn't work, It'll cause people to avoid it cause they don't know the F is going on

[hardy ingot]

Well you bought a license. So that right is not being violated at all. As for "unwillingness to implement an offline patch", it's more about who's going to cover the dev costs of something that massive, because I can tell you, consumers wouldn't want to pay the difference.

[dusky grove]

"Actively" is pulling a lot of weight considering thor has had 10 months of silence on the matter

[autumn niche]

as for steam/valve, there are plans in place for the case steam/valve shutdown which will make it so you still have access to the games on your account

[hardy ingot]

I understand that, but then you get to the next part of my message where I say "And what happens when that plan in place goes out the window too"

[fluid dome]

As long as its in the ToS/EULA, it's fair game for a company to do that, right?

[hardy ingot]

Eventually you reach a point where all those plans go out the window and you cannot guarantee it's going to be preserved anyway

[formal sun]

so a company can pay devs to create and maintain a game, but hiring devs to create an offline patch is going to break the companies bank?

[whole goblet]

Well still being too vague in the long run. Which is why it failed. I use a different example, look what happened with Nintendo on how people complained about prices. It mudded the waters for the most important thing to criticize them for, the palworld situation due to less eyes because of vagueness of Nintendo criticism. Palworld is losing on the lawsuit due to less public pressure on Nintendo on this front.

[terse pelican]

Because they're already putting money/resources into another game, Adding a offline patch to the cost equation, Might be too much, And with how there keeps being layoffs in the gaming space, Yes. Too costly

[wet coral]

Vague is the issue i have. If lawmakers are good in one thing it is to take a vague idea and make a law that is either too little or way too much that ends up hurting us more then any good it provides.

[hardy ingot]

The developers of online experiences should not be forced to deal with added difficulty of converting the entire project to single-player experience, and publishers should not have to manage thousand licenses they have no control over to hand over binaries

If you up the costs to add conversion of the game to single-player when that was never part of its design, that money has to come from somewhere

[frosty spear]

I think it might be more about his ego at this point and not wanting to be seen as the person who failed so he diverted the blame

[tribal canyon]

games are developed to generate profit, bringing in new devs to make a offline patch isnt going to generate any profit so all cost

[vapid nymph]

Why do games have to be converted to singleplayer? Playable doesn't mean singleplayer.

[hardy ingot]

Especially since we're talking about a dead game at that point

[formal sun]

so i only see this being a thing of companies will bear that in mind in the future when making a project that is a live service, if they have no backup for that, that's on the company

[hardy ingot]

addressed in the next message, goes for the multiplayer binaries too due to licensing

[wet coral]

And as such new games get more expensive. Will you still buy it if it went 100 dollar+ for base game due to this?

[hollow gyro]

Also who is making that offline patch when the studio closes if their online only game fails.

[terse pelican]

So let's take Helldivers 2 as an example, Live Service game. How do you want it to be playable when the game finally dies? Singleplayer only? 100 different servers with 10-15 people AT Most, where you don't know how anything would happen?

[dusky grove]

How WOULD you make an offline patch for a live service game?

Make it single player? Let people host servers? Both are risky

[hardy ingot]

You are correct, they will keep it in mind, and stay away from the genres and live service because it presents massively increased costs now

[mortal bay]

this one is a doozy to handle. Who's gonna police the community server and how is it gonna be monetised? there's high risk of IP infringement

[flat moat]

Just realized my keyboard got knocked over and spammed + before sending

[tribal canyon]

also a major thing in all this?, why make this all law?, why not focus the energy on asking developers to do this without a big legal hammer?, if they say no then just vote with your wallet and they will eventually do this

[dusky grove]

And then that would snowball into companies making fewer and fewer live service games until they die out. No more MMOs or MOBAS or TACShooters because "the cost is too high. Just make another single player game"

[tribal canyon]

why was that not the focus of this effort

[hardy ingot]

Exactly, government sure as hell won't do it, and we'd all better hope they don't since then we gonna see all kinds of regulations that really suck in game development in general, and you can't keep an eye on dead game's private servers forever, you need to work on things that actually generate you income

[terse pelican]

Or, Focus on more egregious issues, Like Lootboxes, Monetization in games for Minors.

[dusky grove]

Maybe not in 1 or 2 or 4 years. But 10 years later?

[hollow gyro]

I feel like the irony of the initiative is that it "wanted to start a conversation" and now it has one, just not on the front they wanted.

[vapid nymph]

Also, didn't they say that the European Citizen's Initiative that people have been complaining isn't specific enough had a very tight word limit?

It succeeding is merely a legal direction that a conversation regarding the issue should occur, nothing more. I don't see how that's controversial.

[hardy ingot]

that requires 1 shred of willpower which apparently people don't have since they'll just buy and then moan about it

[dusky grove]

As toxic as those genres can get, I don't think live service games should be reduced to dust

Because there are experiences that can only come from live service multiplayer games

[tribal canyon]

yep

[hardy ingot]

More importantly, noone has right to disallow making them or purposefully make making them unnecessarily difficult

[formal sun]

I would rather purchase a slightly more expensive game if it means it is completely future proof yes, this issue does not apply to the types of people who jump from game to game every week, not everyone is like that

[vapid nymph]

Whataboutism isn't helpful. You can care about more than one issue at once.

[terse pelican]

Toxcicity exists regardless of Genre

[whole goblet]

Live services is a double edged sword. It causes both positivity and toxicity.

[hardy ingot]

Every game type does 😄

[wet coral]

You might buy it still. but those in less fortunate situations who can now afford a game every few months now can only afford 1 in maybe a year?

[hardy ingot]

Even single-player can cause massive amounts of controversy

[mortal bay]

so wait... are the counter strike 1.6 community servers not legally hosted? or were the server binares released to public by valve?\

[fluid dome]

I have never seen as much predatory business practices in videogames as I have in live service, its insane

[wet coral]

Overall sales will hurt. Piracy will raise and end result. Games arent profitable. Lets not make them anymore

[tribal canyon]

this, if a sale push for a new game said they had EOL plans in place i would applaud that happily

[hardy ingot]

not to mention regional pricing

[hardy ingot]

Valve provides SDK for those

By choice

Which is fine, it should be a feature devs/publishers can offer, it should not be enforced

[fluid dome]

I miss when games were just games and not an endless cashgrab

[formal sun]

if these games were as fickle as that, where adding an offline patch would make a game crumble, I don't think much companies would be around right now as is, especially with triple a giants, truth is its not that fickle, they just want you to buy as many of their yearly releases as much as possible, and thats the real problem, they bankrupt themselves on greed, not because of an offline patch

[mortal bay]

I can understand that

[terse pelican]

Reducing any market down to Consumerism, and Greed is counterproductive to the idea of improving it

[hardy ingot]

Wait are you telling me companies need to be profitable?

And that includes not spending insane amounts of money just to convert the game to something it was never meant to be?

[mortal bay]

it's true for some, not all companies.

[fluid dome]

JoCat brought up an interesting point just now when someone replied to him promoting the movement:

[hardy ingot]

Not to mention the ridiculous weight it puts on indie devs too

[west pewter]

The way thor is handling all this is reminding me of how i was when i was younger before i went to highschool in engineering. I wanted to make the world an amazing place but i took 0 time to take other peoples thoughts into account. I remember during group projects i would be so scared that people would talk about certain solutions that i would dismiss anything they said. When i finally grew up in highschool i realized alot of what people were saying while sometimes right or wrong always led to a better solution for the project. He has come such a longer way than me and im simply surprised at how he is handling all this in such a juvenile way when the only person i could see acting like this was my 12 year old self

[vapid nymph]

Also, regarding the funding of whatever plan exists to make the game functional post shutdown - there are things called contingent liabilities and provisions which already exist from an accounting pov. I think a useful equivalence is warranties. Businesses still do business in jurisdictions which have warranties despite it being sometimes a pretty huge cost if a certain sets of circumstances occur. I don't see STG as being terribly different than a warranty that your game wont die arbtrarily based on the dev/producers whims.

[hardy ingot]

Ironic, avid MMO player advocating for practice that would make MMOs impossible to maintain

[mortal bay]

guess we're all going to mobile games now aren't we? sigh unfortunate

[terse pelican]

a Products warranty is limited, Just like a games Lifespawn

[formal sun]

the idea of improving it is future proofing games is a net positive in consumer trust, why would i buy a game that I know will not be a thing I can play 5 years or even 10 years down the line? if releasing a game every year to 2 years is their incentive, the outlier of profit loss is not because of the offline patch but rather the degredation of innovation in their newer titles, nothing more nothing less really.

[tribal canyon]

think this is my viewpoint too, not everything needs live services but games that need live services exist too and just removing that side isnt easy for the games that need them, painting everything with a single brush is a bad idea

[hardy ingot]

Tbf he doesn't have to care since the initiative would only impact new MMOs and it's not like new MMO is going to matter anytime soon with how stable WoW's and FF14's positions are at the top of that genre

[vapid nymph]

Sure, but the current state is that games have ZERO warranty, which is what people seem to be advocating for because the provision of warranty is too expensive or something?

[dusky grove]

But forcing companies to comply with EOL patches and player hosted servers can lead to people intentionally forcing the game to fail. DDOS attacks, an organized boycott of purchases, hell it doesn't even have to attack the game itself just the company that runs it. Game dies, players host the game, devs out of a job.

The big names like riot and blizzard will be fine, but can you say the same for smaller games like the ones that run brawlhalla, or among us, or any other live service game that ISNT tripleA

[languid jetty]

i don't think we should tell developers what they can and cannot make

[hardy ingot]

If you buy a loaf of bread, do you expect it to be edible 10 years from now?

[covert aurora]

happy to see genuine convo and it not a warzone here rn. 😭

[jolly prism]

Ten times this. If you are indie and decide to do an MMO you should already look really hard into the mirror and ask yourself "why".

[mortal bay]

of course, ppl can vote with their money to let the devs know whether their game is profitable or not

[fluid dome]

Publishers when they want the 50th hero shooter this week:

[vapid nymph]

If I buy it from McD's, yes

[tribal canyon]

make all bread MRE

[hardy ingot]

Fair enough

[formal sun]

It would be good, its good practice and should be thought about not even day 1 on release but rather cemented as fact before the game is even a thing, it should be a standard practice

[dusky grove]

Again this leads to a snowball effect. Fewer and fewe live service games each year until all genres under that umbrella die eventually because its not worth the cost to make anymore

[formal sun]

games and media are not food.

[hardy ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/minecraft-sword-die-lukiecas-gaming-you-died-gif-16923036

[terse pelican]

Zero written warranty, But then, do you want them to add a Text that says ''Game will be shut down in 2 years.'' and hurt their bottom line, or do you want them to just leave it unsaid, and let the game live for 5-10, 20 years?

[frosty spear]

But that takes will and discipline from people so it's much easier for them to rage online

[vapid nymph]

What about saying game will be liveservice for at least 5 years? Give some commitment for my 60 bucks

[livid path]

I’m not opposed to the initiative as long as it’s well written due to how complicated legal issues can get

[hardy ingot]

True, you only license those. Logic is the same, you would not expect a supermarket to keep your bread edible for 10 years yet you're expecting game developers to include an oven with every bread

[mortal bay]

I can understand that point of view. One way we can reach common ground is by making it abundantly clear to the end user what kind of game they are buying at point of sale... that way no one is getting cheated out of their money

[jolly prism]

Eat play your games while they are still fresh!

[covert aurora]

agreed

[fluid dome]

https://tenor.com/view/jose-mourinho-sweet-trouble-gif-26762341

[terse pelican]

What if they end up bankrupt before those 5 years and have to shut it down anyway?

[jolly prism]

There are 20 years old games you can still play today, comparing them to bread just makes no sense.

[hardy ingot]

Are they online multiplayer-only games?

[dusky grove]

Concord

[frosty spear]

Then the legal entity that made that pledge doesn't exist and so it can't be held liable

[jolly prism]

Some yes actually.

[tribal canyon]

this is the crux, ive seen WAY too many people declaring they bought a online game so should be able to play forever, rather than a licence

[vapid nymph]

Then their contingent liability to pay their devs to release a 'game still works' patch would kick in

In the same way that if you buy something under warranty and it breaks they have to fix it

[tribal canyon]

at least concord refunded people, so maybe a warrenty of if the game is shut down before x you get y% back

[hardy ingot]

Issue is that's not what this movement is about at all and cannot be adjusted to be such because person leading it is dead set on the "ALL GAMES" target

[fluid dome]

I don't actually mind having less live service tbh, I think as a business model it's bad from the top down in its current form.

[formal sun]

One goes out of date and makes you sick, the other does not have adverse health effects but lets play into this silly point, what if you bought a specific brand of bread, and the company that sells this type of bread decides so basically we are not making this bread anymore, we are not supporting this bread, so they send people out to your house and take this bread you paid money for and said sorry bucko you ain't allowed to have this bread no more, would you say no i paid for this bread or would you say fair enough i mean you did make this bread

[hardy ingot]

Which ones, genuinely curious who's supporting servers for 20 years old games. Only one that comes to mind is Valve since they provide the SDKs which is a nice thing of them to do but should never be expected of anyone

[covert aurora]

i think its because of what defines a "purchase" vs having a license. Misconceptions fuelling the argument here and companies taking advantage of creating confusing grey areas

[tribal canyon]

yea thats my point

[vapid nymph]

The ECI is about having a legally mandated conversation at the highest levels of EU politics, Stop Killing Games would be one interested party in those conversation but they certainly wouldn't be the only one

[mortal bay]

yeah...but from Ross's perspective, it's just a starting point of something bigger.

But we've seen things start out with good intentions and turn ugly later on across the globe...so it does make sense to be precise on the details on something where there are multiple hands in a single pie licensing wise...

[terse pelican]

''Purcheser'' is vague though since you can 'purchase' a licence?

[dusky grove]

But its a fine line between less and none. I cant predict if we land on less or none live service, but i will find it ironic that a movement about preservation will kill MMOs and MOBAs

[hardy ingot]

Oh I'd agree they shouldn't have right to take the game away from your library, absolutely. But that's not what the initiative is about, the initiative is about "Hey, so we are no longer producing this bread so here, have a free 1200$ oven with your 1$ bread"

[fluid dome]

Unfortunate, but a sacrifice I can afford to take

[proper phoenix]

would they tho
Wow still have private server so if the actual server got shutdown ppl can still play it

[languid jetty]

completely different issue and out of scope for SKG. also opting to get rid of something because of fixable problems is definitely an interesting stance

[covert aurora]

yes so if you see on steam it should then explicitly include the word license. People assume game ownership by default

[vapid nymph]

Is it though? /doubt

[hardy ingot]

That's the issue, he already gone too big in the first step

[fluid dome]

If the problems were fixable they'd have done it by now

[terse pelican]

Yeah, I do agree it should specify that it's a ''Temporary'' Licence, rather than Permanent

[languid jetty]

what

[vapid nymph]

One type of end of life plan which would be very cost light would just be releasing a whitepaper explaining how to make the game work

Just as an example

[dusky grove]

Say bye to animal crossing, smash, among us, fall guys... shall i go on?

[hardy ingot]

Not a good idea to enforce releasing know-how of the company

[formal sun]

and where's this 1200 coming from for this $1 bread? if the game cannot for some reason extend offline support you should be entitled to your money back you spent on the game to the button

[dusky grove]

Because while the single player and couch multiplayer would survive, they wont bother developing online infrastructure anymore

[proper phoenix]

Fall guys is kinda dead atp no
And i dont think i would mind playing alone on animal crossing if it meant that i can play it forever in my private server and just chilling

[proud lily]

The problem with this is that games-as-a-service are too volatile for this. Say your MMO doesn't take off (like most). You can tell almost immediately that this game is already a loss. You're likely not to recover financially. If you're now forced to pay servers for 5 years with like 4 players on them?
Yea thats guaranteed bankruptcy.

[hardy ingot]

You paid for a license to enjoy the game while it's being supported. You accepted these terms with purchase and generally also right after first playing the game.

And exactly, where is the 1200$ coming from is a great question, because that's the part people behind the initiative refuse to answer. Who is going to pay the 1200$ that it's going to cost to ship an oven with every bread? Is the money going to come from thin air?

[formal sun]

they can if they simply decided lets add offline support, it should be a standard, it shouldn't even be expected

[languid jetty]

any sort of "good riddance" take on the problems with SKG and live-service games will never make any sense to me

[mortal bay]

agreed. if they were single player games blocked behind crappy online DRM, you should get your money back. MMOs on the other hand...whole different ball game...

[hardy ingot]

"Hey, actually, why don't we double our dev costs to provide a mode that completely contradicts the idea of the game? Yeah that's a great idea!"

[fluid dome]

Why is it any worse than some people here advocating for another crash

[covert aurora]

or maybe not get money back, just dont implement such a backwards DRM

[dusky grove]

And what if the game isnt meant for offline like a moba or mmo

[mortal bay]

that my friend is what SKG should target.. that right there is hostile business practice

[proper phoenix]

but the skg are are not forcing for ALL game to have a single player fearure no? .People are asking for games that already have single player compatibility (or single player modes) to just let us keep playing the single player.

[vapid nymph]

I'm not sure I care that it might release 'commercially sensitive information' in a whitepaper tbh. Software patents don't even exist in my country.

[hardy ingot]

pffft, just mean it for offline, obviously! it's simple, you just hit the "make offline" button

[proud lily]

It is not clear on this. It can be read either way. And thats the problem.

[mortal bay]

Ross clarified in his video that it's for MMOs as well

[jolly prism]

Nobody said anything about about the developer doing it - they can be private servers, the game/dev just needs to allow it to happen in some way after they stop the support. One example would be MMO Asheron's Call - had more examples of the top of my head but with the success of WOW Classic some dead MMOs started rising/being supported again

[formal sun]

make the game open source when the time comes, give consumers the ability to replicate online servers.

[dusky grove]

Single player league of legends and people will still find a way to get toxic LOL

[proper phoenix]

i mean u can do the valve and wow route and have private server

[proper phoenix]

I never felt so offended by st that is 100% true

[hardy ingot]

I agree it would be nice to have it so you cannot cease and desist non-profit private servers if your official servers shut down and you're not willingly offering SDKs from the start, however, still absolutely give right to cease and desist if someone profits from it

Which once again

[fluid dome]

I don't even support the initiative for the record, I just really fkin hate how predatory some games are being lately but apparently asking for regulation is a bad thing so why even bother atp

[hardy ingot]

Becomes a problem because who's gonna keep an eye on that noone monetizes it?

[languid jetty]

no clue what you mean by "another crash", but I never said that it was any worse than anything else. i only said a "good riddance" take makes no sense and completely invalidates a significant chunk of the gaming market.

[mortal bay]

and that totally depends on the dev to take up that extra work and provide. making a law to force someone to do things is not right... imagine if there was a law that forces your parents to cook you dinner every day even if they're sick... bad example...but my point stands 😛

[vapid nymph]

I mean, the devs could still sell licenses to their game [which is unsupported by the devs themselves] which gives access to the assets required to run the game. The server-client might be written by a third party post shutdown and I think in that circumstance it'd be fine for the third party to profit off that venture.

[jolly prism]

making a law to force someone to do things is not right what? That's literally what laws do You can disagree with this specific situation/potential law, but welcome to society.

[terse pelican]

Duh, The Government, Cause they totally want more stuff to do.

[dusky grove]

Legally requiring devs to allow player hosted service EOL is a slippery slope. The company could be sabotaged to artificially induce EOL. Big names are gonna be fine but what of a smaller company that just so happened to make a live service game?

[vapid nymph]

You should get better examples before responding imo

[hardy ingot]

I just imagine the devs coding in the toxic callouts for bots to keep you immersed

[covert aurora]

for all the hate thor gets, again I think it is important some type of devil's advocacy is played here because if there was to be be pushback for the initiative once it did hit 1 million signatures, this is the type of discussion that would be had if it could be solidified and acted on. If thor's arguments act as a placeholder for those arguing against the initiative I find that equally important in other ways. I dont like all of thor's methods since it seems to have fallen elsewhere in terms of integrity, but anyone willing to not just stick with a status quo opinion I see as important piece to making a hopeful change

[dusky grove]

Invite tyler 1 to the studio for this

[hardy ingot]

More importantly, you don't want government to have to do it

[terse pelican]

Code in so that it uses a Free LLM, watch it throw racial slurs, Report the bot, Get them banned, The True Moba Experience 😛

[terse pelican]

yeah that's kinda the point

[hardy ingot]

And since bots are garbage generally, you can even blame your team for everything all the time all the same 😄

[formal sun]

I am with it on a basic level, if it gives consumers an ounce of protection regarding scummy practices by big companies, I am down with it, you can blame the company executives for this being pushed, no one else, in essence this situation falls purely on them, and whatever may happen because of it

[mortal bay]

true, only then can we carve out something meaningful

[terse pelican]

Totally my team mates fault I'm stuck in Bronze 1 !

[hardy ingot]

Shifting the blame is easy, but no, people pushing the initiative are absolutely still the ones to blame for any fallout in the aftermath

[covert aurora]

misrepresenting what ownership meant truly carved the downfall. If one extreme exists it only is obvious that an opposite may pop it's head in opposition. However i don't believe SKG is that extreme. It just needs more bulletproof wording

[vapid nymph]

Final point from me. I don't think the status quo of devs/publishers can withdraw licenses whenever they want is a great place to be. I think having a formal conversation about this issue is valuable. Given that, I think it's pretty clear that we should be signing the ECI if we're able to [EU citizen]. I don't view nitpicking past that as productive.

[formal sun]

this wouldn't be a thing if companies were not greedy lol, if there was good business practices, this wouldn't exist, the catalyst is scummy executives whether you like it or not

[hardy ingot]

complete rewrite by someone willing to actually consider the risks*

[fluid dome]

Tbh I do not trust the industry to self regulate themselves in a way that is fair for all parties

[jolly sky]

Which ruins the Copyright and IP from the devs. Bad move

[languid jetty]

that is not what laws do. laws protect from harm, not control personal choices.

[vapid nymph]

I don't trust any industry to self regulate

[proper phoenix]

one think i would give skg movement an irk for that it is still somewhat vauge
But ig that can be discussed more seriously if the initiative were to be actual discuss in the parliment
Other than that im still on board with skg

[hardy ingot]

If you consent to start a civil war because you don't feel good about current regime, you are still absolutely to blame for every person that would fall in that civil war should it happen

[jolly prism]

Am I dreaming? There absolutely are laws that force you to do certain things under the threat of punishment - that's how they work. Many of them will be related to personal choices.

[dusky grove]

I feel like its not even scummy to have live service. It just comes with what those kinds of games need.

Is it scummy that the single player experience part of a live service game is gone when the whole game is gone? Kinda. If SKG only wanted to preserve THAT and solo-only games itd have gone better

[hardy ingot]

Just because something has cause and effect does not mean people supporting the effect are not responsible for what it causes

[covert aurora]

like what is the point getting 1 million signatures if it could obviously get shot down. I mean look at cases of how slimy companies get with Fortnite v Apple. To think similar methods wouldn't be used to tear apart this movement that obviously will affect the bottom line of many companies is naive at best

[main ruin]

Please remember that you're allowed to discuss here under the conditions that 1) You are all civil and 2) Abide by the server rules, please try to avoid stuff like politics unrelated to the topic at hand :)

[formal sun]

so be it, I won't be stressing because the likes of ubisoft, EA, Activision, Blizzard etc might get royally screwed from taking games

[terse pelican]

While the discussion is civil, The topic itself is borderline Political, Which can be problematic

[covert aurora]

If someone like Thor can cause this much division while still having open minded gamers understand his side, imagine what paid lobbying will do to tear it down

[main ruin]

You are right, I have edited my message

[proper phoenix]

Mod are here
Run

[formal sun]

I would not use such silly words based on video games, its as simple as money hungry execs stealing peoples games rather than giving future proof plans for a game

[jolly sky]

Ok so you support an indie dev, even a solo one, losing the rights to their game? Do you support that for all art mediums too?

"You made this? No, I made this", is what that does

[terse pelican]

So @main ruin , How's your Thursday?

[dusky grove]

And a lot of smaller companies like the owners of among us, town of salem, the many smaller smash clones and other fighting games, etc etc.

You've killed the evil king with a bomb, but slaughtered the citizens you were supposed to save

[hardy ingot]

No, because no one is stealing.

[formal sun]

can you name any indie games that have taken their games off people on the reasoning of not giving it online support anymore?

[covert aurora]

ngl it's a W this server allows this discussion at all with no bans. not used to that. at least this is positive of Thors community that people who attack him shouldn't overlook

[formal sun]

I am not using a bomb or killing any citizens lol

[jolly sky]

Does not matter, your catch all version of what you want would harm those devs as well. You would be giving away the rights for small time/solo devs. That is a terrible move.

[hardy ingot]

More like you killed the evil king's wife in this case because the movement is anti-publisher, yet only ones it will hurt is devs and consumers

[fluid dome]

Maybe not inherently scummy but that is the end point for many live service games, and even single player games with heavy microtransactions. That is what I have a problem with. SKG is taking away from that focus I feel

[tribal nest]

I mean, people do get banned if they’re being dicks about it, but yeah, it isn’t at all how a lot of people claim

[dusky grove]

You know what i meant lol

[proper phoenix]

wait till u see his twitch chat ( tho the one get banned usually bring up the point in a malicious intent anyway)

[hardy ingot]

You really struggle with metaphors I see

[formal sun]

I wouldn't exactly call among us small

[hardy ingot]

10-50k $ budget, that is very small

That's not even in the AA bracket

[dusky grove]

Then thats probably the kings chef or one of the butlers

[formal sun]

No I typically don't use words of terrorism as a metaphor when describing the state of video games, or bread for that matter

[fluid dome]

The same company that published The Crew also published Star Wars Outlaws, Assassin's Creed Odyssey, etc.

[hardy ingot]

Ironic, since the same logic still applies.

[covert aurora]

direct confrontations can be annoying for anyone tho, plus it is someones personal chat so I can understand being fed up of it. However im used to communities just out right not allowing discussion. It is a horrible thing to do because what happens is you push people who want to criticize you in good faith likely to more bad faith spaces. I'm pro-constructive criticism

[hardy ingot]

Just the scales are different

[jolly prism]

Bold words mister bread

[languid jetty]

SKG isn't taking away from that focus, that simply isn't the focus. reforming scummy monetization is a good idea, and something that should be done. but it's not part of SKG and it's also not indicitive of every live-service game. they are not made solely to make money, i promise you that

[hardy ingot]

I stand by the bread metaphor, it was accurate

[formal sun]

what logic i am not dropping bombs and killing innocents its a silly thing to say lmao

[dusky grove]

Mister bread, with a penchant for pain

[fluid dome]

I would rather the industry be heavily regulated against those practices rather than wait for them to change themselves, because when you have a golden goose, why tf would you kill it?

[proper phoenix]

Bread metaphor vs terrorist metaphor 😭

Dahell is this turned into

😭

[terse pelican]

This just makes me think of a guy on TikTok that makes funny T-Shirts with random stuff like ''Sir Loin''

[covert aurora]

internet in nutshell

[hardy ingot]

Dropping bombs = making dev costs insane
killing innocents = hurting entire industry and reducing amount of games being made due to the insane costs, resulting in unhappy consumers and unhappy devs

[gaunt fjord]

Is it possible to download a hacked or cracked browser extension?

[languid jetty]

#piracy-requests

[hardy ingot]

Metaphor translated for you

[dusky grove]

#piracy-requests

[languid jetty]

why did bro come to the warzone to ask if he can pirate things

[terse pelican]

Server name.

[main ruin]

Not the server for this :) Despite the name we do not pirate

[jolly sky]

Funny since a better metaphor for what you want would tantamount to stealing, since your desire would be to make the game open source entirely.

You do not, and should not have the right to now own a games IP and Copyright.

[formal sun]

my brain does not correlate this to video games lmao its a wild metaphor, you can just say it directly i don't need the goddamn warcrime metaphors lol

i can't take that seriously

[covert aurora]

the worst thing is that currently people are focusing more on SKG stuff than asking hytale to release ANYTHING, any build. am heartbroken 😭

[jolly sky]

Their art, their models, their code is not yours to own, nor should ever be legally enforced to give away

[main ruin]

I see the whole #SaveHytale movement on Twitter, it's never gonna happen unfortunately :( Riot owns it

[hardy ingot]

Purpose of metaphors being used in arguments and discussion is to provide some of the more extreme examples of same situation to highlight the issue.

[languid jetty]

hytale 😭

come back to us 🙏

[covert aurora]

ex- developers being like "this was good af" like bro share pls 🥺

[hardy ingot]

And I think we all agree bread is a very extreme example!

[covert aurora]

i must stay in denial jake

[terse pelican]

I remember when Thor was trying to find a way to save Project Dragon aswell

[proper phoenix]

They cant sadly
The changing engine and doing the game from the ground up again + st internal goinf on prolly killed the whole game

[formal sun]

bread is silly but fun but warcrimes is just straight up goofy

[proper phoenix]

So sadly hytale cant be save

[dusky grove]

Okay new metaphor time... you've... uhh... you've... cured the disease! Too bad the medicine's side effects left you bedridden for life

[fluid dome]

God I ducking love bread you don't even know...

[covert aurora]

tbh tho it seems old devs want to see it released. Would it really be a problem to charge something for it but be open about it being unfinished? like it was a community driven game, who is to say it cant continue?

[hardy ingot]

It causes discontent, hence it succeeded as a metaphor

[covert aurora]

i refuse to believe that hytale cant have a no mans sky moment

[mortal bay]

The sad thing is that I've been watching Thor's stream for about 3 years now and not once have I ever seen him take any of the stances that ppl come in saying... it's truly sad and unfortunate

[main ruin]

if I were a developer of a game that got cancelled I would want to see it released too :(

[gentle mortar]

hello games studio didn't get shutdown

[mortal bay]

if anything he advocates rather vocally for artistic freedom and consumer choice

[formal sun]

which i do hope gets changed due to it being anti consumer, i should own the copy full stop, that should not be taken away lol

[jolly prism]

Riot could do the darnest thing by getting Hytale out in any capacity to garner wide support. Unless they plan to actually do something with the IP that is :cope:

[covert aurora]

but apparently management currently overlooks the progress already. They say it is ready in

[dusky grove]

People are lazy and misinformed. Simple as that

[covert aurora]

SOME form

current management just doesnt see it as absolutely perfect

[hardy ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-bread-meme-googly-eyes-lick-gif-4828919955563198017

[formal sun]

no its just silly really lmao

[covert aurora]

old devs said it was ready i mean

[jolly sky]

This may shock you, but you don't own any CD's or DVD's you have either

[covert aurora]

current leads just are stubborn

[fluid dome]

Tbh I may take up thrifting as a hobby, you find some really cool hidden gems

[formal sun]

are they going to take them from me?

[jolly prism]

The same devs that were working on it for years with nothing to show for it now?

[hardy ingot]

Sorry to hear you feel that way then, point stands.

[dusky grove]

To each their own. My linguistic genius is wasted here on the thine plebians /j

[languid jetty]

bread more like Fred

[fluid dome]

OH also

[proper phoenix]

not really. The old dev also arent working on hytale anymore and riot own the ip. And with minecraft slowly and slowly not in the spotlight of fame anymore riot would see that it might be not worth to continue developing the game and focus its resources on other ip instead

[covert aurora]

https://x.com/Simon_Hypixel/status/1937845322039873916

Simon (@Simon_Hypixel)

@slikey_dev During my time working on Hytale in 2016-2019, it was maybe to the absolute maximum 2 years away from a PC release with the legacy engine and vision. I still have videos, screenshots and old client builds to attest to that. All developers from that time that I've talked to say

X · Jun 25, 2025, 12:08 PM

[jolly sky]

If you misuse the licensing agreement they absolutely could yes. But you are mostly likely to end up with a fine

[terse pelican]

Technically, you own the phyical shell that holds the licenced content on it

[covert aurora]

i mean even simon himself states it

[jolly prism]

The way it looks now is that they just took advantage of Riot money and failed to actually develop a useable game. Or do you think Riot just hates money and that's why they refused to release the "ready" game?

[formal sun]

what is considered misusing them? watching it at the wrong time? putting in the cd upside down?

[proper phoenix]

This was the old engine part
Thats until the hytale devs or riot decied to redo the game engine from the ground up so it csn supported many more platform not just pc

[covert aurora]

"On a personal level, I couldn't live up to these new high expectations and was given an option to leave by Riot." seems like a good way to set yourself up for an uphill battle

[terse pelican]

By using them in a commercial setting.

[covert aurora]

if this is even a consideration for someone

[mortal bay]

hypothetical question... if I take apart a chevy bolt and toyota yaris and mish mash them together.... am I infringing upon both companies' copyrights to their designs if I decide to sell them?

[jolly sky]

Displaying it in public, for one. Look at the back of a CD/DVD case. It's all printed. As is the case with TOS's and EULA's for games. It's all available.

[terse pelican]

Probably?

[covert aurora]

one dude even said "screw it" left dev for hytale and became a jacked gym buff im not joking 😭

[mortal bay]

even if i purchased both cars?

[hardy ingot]

really depends on the brand specifically, for instance iirc was it Ferrari that does not allow modifications at all?

[covert aurora]

I stand by this lmao

[mortal bay]

yeah ferrari does not allow mods

[fluid dome]

Physical will always be superior in my eyes.

[formal sun]

how does this tie into me playing a game to getting it snagged though?

[proper phoenix]

I mean even hytale no longer in production
There are other good alternatives

[terse pelican]

You purchase the vehicle yes, but not the licence to ''kitbash'' their stuff together as far as I can guess

[civic vector]

As for Noxy, I have known him for 14 years now and I think people are quick to blame everything on him and for the wrong reasons. Yes ultimately he's responsible as the CEO but I feel like it's because Noxy trusted and hired "real" producers with "real game" experience from the game industry and let them drive the project into something else with bigger plans, and they started to rewrite ton of features, systems and even the engine.

I think that's a good point to bring up as well

[worthy ivy]

how will they stop me?

[jolly prism]

The length some people will go just to not release a game 😭

[worthy ivy]

I'm going to save up for a ferrari and then mod it just to spite them

[terse pelican]

Lawsuit. They tried it with, was it Deamau5 ?

[mortal bay]

beats me...but I think some people have had their cars confiscated by ferrari for some reason

[proper phoenix]

Just not mod ferrari

Mod lembo instead

[jolly prism]

Good thing courts do not exist, right

[proper phoenix]

Tbey give full reign once u buy a car

[covert aurora]

but like so many passionate people begged to release a build who worked on it. These guys want their work seen badly, feel for them

[jolly sky]

Because your want for it to be legally enforcable to be open sourced means that you could do whatever you want with that. You could make "Video Game You Like" The Sequel, and the devs could not stop you for it.

[formal sun]

they can't do anything about you modding their vehicle unless you tamper with their logo, ferrari lost a case in trying to sue someone for mods on their car, in turn they just banned the person from buying any car from them again, but you can absolutely mod a ferrari

[worthy ivy]

there's no common law in the UK that says a man cannot modify his car - they might be able to sue me for selling a modded ferrari maybe? but modding my own ferrari? no chance

man's home is his castle - basic tenet of english common law

[mortal bay]

many a project has face an undeserved death as this. Hopefully, it gets better for the next generation of game devs

[jolly sky]

Say that to Deadmau5 when Ferarri took his way for having a paint job they didn't like.

[earnest mirage]

yes and his purrani

[worthy ivy]

in America I would assume Ferrari are allowed to come to you house and tow your Ferrari though 😦

[formal sun]

clearly bro didn't do anything to stop it lmao

[worthy ivy]

oooooohhhhh - did he buy one of the new ones that you don't "own"

?

[covert aurora]

hytale turned a man into a gym buff and you are telling me it would flop if released today. i will remain in denial

[proper phoenix]

I mean even if they beg they wont get any
Bc hytale ip are now belong to riot and since riot has stop developing the old engine they wont release it

[mortal bay]

oh that's good to know. I wonder if it changes from country to country...the land's laws also play a factor as to whether it supports the company or the customer

[worthy ivy]

I am thinking old school 150 or something

[fluid dome]

Samsung turning up to my house with the lease they now own bc I agreed to the T&Cs without reading the microscopic print:

[covert aurora]

waste of money tho ;=;

[jolly sky]

I do not recall the model, only that it was a while ago

[proper phoenix]

Its riot
They will just accept the lost and move on

Thats it

[formal sun]

if this was truly the case the entire GT3/Motorsport racing industry would be in extreme trouble, you can do whatever to these cars so long as you never tamper with the logo yes

[covert aurora]

i peacfully wish you are wrong here RogueChicken

[jolly sky]

But yes, no single individual should have this right. It should not be legally enforced. It should be a choice. @formal sun

[hardy ingot]

it was a Ferrari 458

[jolly prism]

I violently wish you are wrong

[worthy ivy]

say I buy this thing second hand off a bloke down the road... there's no contract between me and Ferrari - how can they stop me?

all I need now is 50 grand

[covert aurora]

that looks consumable ngl

yummy

that red

[fluid dome]

£53,495 technically

[proper phoenix]

Thats just every big company if they think that the benefit dont outweight the lost they will just accept that they lost money and cut it down before it cost them even more money
Thata what happen with riot forge
And thata also what happen between honda and TeamLiquif

[formal sun]

they could do virtually nothing, at worst if you modded this car, they would blacklist you from buying any ferrari car FROM THEM, but they could not take that car from me

[covert aurora]

but honda are snowflakes

[worthy ivy]

I will cut and shut it with a ford escort so the front end looks all boxy, paint it lime green with bright orange stripes and go park outside ferrari's headquarters

can't modify my ferrari?

pshaaaw

[jolly prism]

Liquif

[covert aurora]

well i will have to hope for leaks then either way, they might happen

[tight bramble]

For older cars yes, for newer cars they can and will take it from you. Almost happened to deadmau5

[mortal bay]

but why...why would you do such a crime against such a beauty?🥹

[formal sun]

depends on the honda, I typically hate honda especially for racing with the exception of some civics and the 2018 NSX, especially the NSX, what a beast

[proper phoenix]

Not really when a player in teamliquid send a hiroshima bombing gif against a Japanese team after they lost against them in a R6 tourney that cost the org ab 7-8 firgue

[fluid dome]

The Oxygen leaving my lungs bc I legally do not own the rights to it:

[covert aurora]

i mean with how they reacted to a popular gif of a stereotypical nuke animation and took it personally

[worthy ivy]

yeah, I know buying them from Ferrari you agree not to mod it... another reason to buy second hand

buy the cheapest motor I can and then run it until it ccompletly dies
I think of it like recycling for cars

[covert aurora]

or video footage. Regardless

[formal sun]

lowkey i would go through with it too, that is one diabolical livery

[worthy ivy]

but I now have a new automotive goal - own a ferrari so I can mod it out of spite 🙂

[covert aurora]

please put nyan cat on it

trust me

it will be good

definitely not done before

[worthy ivy]

nyan cat at one end, bongo cat at the other, top cat on the roof

and neon pink

with green trim

[covert aurora]

yes

[formal sun]

458 italia gt3, it may cost an arm and a leg and 2 of your kidneys but that machine is a god, coming from someone who despised using a ferrari

[covert aurora]

add a little cotton candy blue

[mortal bay]

sigh...all for a meme...this car looked absolutely stunning in red

[terse pelican]

If I were a car manifacturer, I'd make a show out of all these Modded cars, Just to boost publicity.

[hardy ingot]

absolutely cursed

[worthy ivy]

yeah, cotton candy blue interior

[proud lily]

Just plaster the Lambo logo all over it.

[tight bramble]

If I'm going exotic I'll take a lambo. They really don't care, just give them money lol. Plus you can take the car to any audi dealer for the maintenance

[mortal bay]

ahh, to keep the friendship strong yes? xD

[tight bramble]

Or vw for that matter, not just audi

[terse pelican]

Oh right, Space Marine 2 Update today.

[worthy ivy]

any ferrari I'd realistically be able to buy is going to be so old (and knackered) that you can probably fix it with rocks and a hammer

[formal sun]

This is usually only done by individuals, akira nakai for example, but truth is manufacturers already do this, its called GT3 racing

[covert aurora]

ngl idk if i wanna bring this up but ferarri be like the ubisoft of cars with them controlling how you make the cars look

[tight bramble]

The 911 gt3rs is soooooo pretty 😍

[covert aurora]

pay half a mill and make no decisions on what you paid for >:D

[mortal bay]

wouldn't those be classic collector cars? in that case, wouldn't they be more expensive?

[proper phoenix]

Eh they will hurt themself more if they dont take it seriously
And the gif is from a very specific domumentary so its not exactly stereotypical. The idiot who send the tweet didnt even got fired for this.

[covert aurora]

meanwhile you make a lambo look like a dinosaur they don't care

and still it's a top calendar car so they aint even snobs abt it

[tight bramble]

I mean I'd rather have a panamera or a taycan, but that's just more for practicality.

[tight bramble]

I wish the sesto elemento was street legal. So fricken cool.

[mortal bay]

if you want a saloon/sedan, there are many more options out there....the panamera is just not pleasant to the eye....it's shape is just ....a blob

[covert aurora]

i mean idc about ferraris anyway i moved onto paganis, unfortunately they will always be for super rich tho ;-;

[dusky grove]

This reminds me of toyota dropping liquid as a sponsor cuz of the same thing

[formal sun]

I have a photo of the porsche 911 rsr taken at a race event i was at, alongside the lexus lfa, amg and mk5

[worthy ivy]

all my cars were technically old enough to be classics - but they were also all complete sheds - I know a couple peeps who like proper 'classics' and it's too much effort - I just call them 'old' then you don't have to feel bad when you end up cubing it

[covert aurora]

thats what i replied too lol

[mortal bay]

that thing looks battle ready!

[formal sun]

believe it or not but opposite, ferrari outside of F1 are an extremely dominant race brand, their cars handle extremely well

[formal sun]

its my favourite porsche yes

[worthy ivy]

is that not just the direction they're all going?

something something downloadable heated seats 🙂

[covert aurora]

god that is so awful too

[formal sun]

oh you mean that lmao

[covert aurora]

you wouldnt download a car??

[mortal bay]

that's a fine selection my good man...

[covert aurora]

well......

[tight bramble]

Bmw has a subscription option for their heated seats, I think, maybe.

[covert aurora]

https://tenor.com/view/piracy-its-a-crime-you-wouldnt-steal-a-car-you-wouldnt-steal-a-handbag-you-wouldnt-steal-a-television-you-wouldnt-steal-a-movie-gif-20041626

[mortal bay]

now this needs a fkin initiative...it's already in the damn car... why do I need to pay extra for it!?

[covert aurora]

why they make this so badass and edgy for 2000s period ripe with that style. like damn best limewire ad right here

[worthy ivy]

I aim for mid 90s to mid 2000s cars - after that they all get a bit 'you need the special software we invented because everyone had a vagcom license and we needed some other way to screw over the repair scene and you'd best hope you got a special wrench head that engages with our proprietary screws'

[earnest mirage]

okay, but what about a 993 turbo?

[formal sun]

If I had to pick my favourites, the R35 GT3 NISMO and BMW M4 GT3, R35 is getting by in its years but what an awesome thing to witness at the track

[formal sun]

I am not a major nostalgia head but if i had to pick one through the ages, the R33/400R, that is my favourite car of the older times

[mortal bay]

of the two, I don't know the M4 that well.. I've seen a couple races for the R35.....how is the M4 on the track? have you by chance, seen it moving about live?

[tight bramble]

Delta integrale or the fulvia v4 for me

[formal sun]

the M4 I reckon is the most dominant in GT3, especially at the nurburgring

[worthy ivy]

best car I ever had was a 1994 Escort 1.8l turbodiesel - wasn't the fastest on the road, might have had 350000 miles on the clock and only fired on three and a half cylinders...
but it cost me £200 and I got nearly two years out of it - mid 90s british cars are built of sterner stuff compared to today

[mortal bay]

a rally fan I see. no love for Lancia?

[tight bramble]

I had a 94 escort wagon! Mine was gas, cost 500 bucks, and guess what the previous owner did with it before I bought it?

[mortal bay]

oha wait....delta is by lancia...

[formal sun]

you can't fault it its just for straight line tracks like daytona, it really has the same issue the MK 5 has in GT4, but it does what its built for very well

[tight bramble]

Lancia is my favorite brand for old classics

[worthy ivy]

worst car was an Astravan with more than a million miles on the clock - it had lived on a factory site, driving stuff about 24/7 for however long

first hill on the motorway home and it blew the head gasket - just wasn't ready for life on the open road

[mortal bay]

not a fan of subaru or mitsubishi?