streamchat

[fluid dome]

Human beings, what a species.

[tight bramble]

No movie theater butter

[thick ledge]

OOOGH my neck has gotten stiff

[teal zodiac]

From all the things this is the one that got me. You dont go after someone's work like that, its way below reasonable

[brisk sparrow]

if he responded like, 5 months in with "heres what weve changed" it would be cool, but 10 months when its not even at half the required signatures? nah

[thick ledge]

from turning my head to look at my discord monitor for so long

aaaa

[tight bramble]

Stretches are your friend 😀

[thick ledge]

yes if ross absorbed the critique and changed some stuff around

itd be much better

but he didnt

[frozen nimbus]

People also saying terrible things about thor and the ferrets

Like leave the cute goblins out of this

[jolly sky]

Apparently having a well researched opinion about the future problems SKG could have is "misleading" to some people

[trim scaffold]

If I’m being honest, I think the SKG movement is a good thing, I just think it was released in an immensely unprepared way and that communication gap from everything going on in between, including the 10 month gap, is the main problem in all of this. The SKG idea isn’t bad, but how it was executed was.

[minor nymph]

" I really don't want to do this next part but it's become a liability for the campaign not to"
Proceeds to say I misinformed people in a 33 minute long segment as part of an hour long video.
Definitely not for drama.

https://youtu.be/HIfRLujXtUo?si=cWG-N_EnggyAYtYY&t=1117

[vivid coral]

YA that kinda pissed me off, most of the reviews have less than .5 hours

[mellow goblet]

i do recall him saying something about him not wanting to spearhead it

[stone trench]

that's why the Internet just sucks. You cannot possibly talk about anything without someone getting their feelings hurt and turning to this nonsense

[shadow dawn]

Those horses are rotten and with maggots, do you want to give ppl food poisoning

[frigid crown]

I honestly don't think he intended for hate raiders to pick it up and run with it, I try to see it from his perspective of trying to correct things he saw as misinterpretations that he has been answering this whole time. I really don't think Ross is tuned into internet drama in any way.

[minor nymph]

Agreed entirely.

[hoary pawn]

You said that Ross waited 10 months to refute you which is wrong… you are the one changing goalposts this time.

[thick ledge]

but he IS spearheading it

by starting it

[thick ledge]

we all agree with this

people just cant read

[jolly sky]

It's amazing how many people choose not to understand that

[fluid dome]

Kinda want the movement to die with a wimper now and be done with it

[mellow goblet]

Yeah, i heard he had hoped to hand it off to someone to do the heavy lifting

[frozen nimbus]

Worse part was that it somewhat worked and he was happy about this iirc

[mellow goblet]

evidently that someone never came

[brisk sparrow]

great idea, incredibly poor execuition, as seen by the severe lack of signatures

[delicate shell]

Can't two people just disagree online without their fanbases deciding to insert themselves into the issue and brigade everything ....

[minor nymph]

Where did he refute me outside of this and back 10 months ago?
Neither of us have talked about one another in 10 months.
I have not spoke about SKG in 10 months.

Where were all the other big YouTubers in that time?

[frigid crown]

Yes spearheading it because in his view he didn't think anyone else was going to bother.

[minor nymph]

Impossible but goddamn do I wish.

[charred wolf]

Forcing a narrative over trying to dissect it with reason is an age old cheap trick: trying to track mud on the person that disagrees with you to make them seem completely invalid.

[frozen nimbus]

Ye

[regal lily]

this is what i see

[stone trench]

slow news week

[thick ledge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/987123333659250688/1309990764448714852/Piracy_Requests.gif

[tight bramble]

12 Oz curls

[formal kestrel]

dude genuinely, half the reason ive been thinking they did this now when its failing was cos they probably figured they could rile up people from twitter and reddit that are still mad about WoW for another excuse to try drag you through the mud again and drama farm you for content and views

[earnest mirage]

sorry for my late response, had to go afk for a bit.
this is a 20+ year old game... The fact that it runs without major issues is a miracle. A lot of stuff on driver and hardware side has been deprecated since back then.

For example recently (about release of RTX50 series) 32 bit CUDA was set EoL , affecting tons of games like Borderlands 2, Mafia II, Metro 2033 and much more. This results in bad performance. Even a 5090 paired with an 9800X3D result in random frame drops below 60 in Borderlands 2 while using basic game mechanics, or even results in random game crashes.

Even when you have the binaries to the server and client, you are not allowed to decompile (if possible) the game and try fix stuff in code. And try to solve hardware accelerations with software emulations always results in a very bad performing mess, if it works. Ever wondered why some N64 ports run very badly on PC? that is the most common reason (less often bad ports). They had to emulate hardware accelerations and this stuff didn't work for all games and even if it works can cause random lags or game crashes. You can see those things when people playing emulated N64 games on stream quite often.

[jolly sky]

Might want to read this #piracy-requests

[river cargo]

tbf it seems ross does weekly updates, and guys like muta, tectone, pyrocynical, charlie etc. are busy lol

[brisk sparrow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/987123333659250688/1309990764448714852/Piracy_Requests.gif

[river cargo]

but the way they attacked you was out of hand

[teal zodiac]

ye ye, but those things i learned after, the review bombing was the first thing i saw. This immediately turns the "internet drama" into something more tangible and real for me, and not at all ok. Only after i saw the videos, twitter and etc, only got worse ofc

[thick ledge]

not too busy to attack thor

[hoary pawn]

You said he WAITED 10 months to refute you, implying that he had not refuted you until 10 months after you made your video… which is wrong.

[thick ledge]

but too busy to support the movement they say they care about

in literally any way

for a full year

[gentle sierra]

Remember everyone, reacting with 🫃 is essential.

[frozen nimbus]

Troll im guessing

[nova bough]

i do hope someone with more knowledge takes over skg and rebrands it to help curb the amount of single player games that have live service shoved into them for....reasons

[edgy oar]

But they're not busy enough to cover it now?

[thick ledge]

they were too busy to make thier high production video of them sitting in a chair for 10 minutes talking

[grand anvil]

Sorry if this came off the wrong way. I respect each opinion. I’m just on the lines of not liking all the negativity on either side, but I understand how people feel about things, and just hope everyone is alright.

[frozen nimbus]

Yes

[river cargo]

source for that? is that the general q&a thing ross put out?

[indigo wadi]

Too busy but now can deal with it? Sure

[zenith summit]

all the hardware acceleration type stuff is tied to the client rather than the servers though. I highly doubt any of the online server systems use stuff like physx

[minor nymph]

He tried to refute me at the outset. Didn't accomplish it.
Then tried to refute me again 10 months later by calling me a liar that spreads misinformation.
Are you happier with this description?

[supple cedar]

First person I've seen ask for an actual source in like an hour of watching

[brazen drift]

I think he just marketed the entire initiative to the exact wrong people. The EU is full of MANY countries of which have their own content creators - instead of saying "man i think the big youtubers should cover this drama" (lists jack, mark, pewdiepie, critical) you should have asked the actual big youtubers for the EU

[charred wolf]

I think it's pretty easy to see that if SKG wasn't left a sinking ship, shots would've never been fired at Thor.

[brazen drift]

not the highly popular american based ones

[grand anvil]

I’m sorry, I wasn’t aware of that.

[thick ledge]

yeah if SKG got enough signatures, you think theyd still be lashing out?

[exotic locust]

Pewdiepie and Jacksepticeye are European. Swedish and Irish respectively

[fluid dome]

All this really proves to me is a few things:

1. The Internet is a terrible place for civil discussions

2. Nobody actually cares about actual scummy practices in the industry, because if they did, they'd actually talk to the people who are in the trenches dealing with this crap.

3. Nobody argues in good faith and I shouldn't take anyone at face value ever because everyone has to have an ulterior motive apparently.

[brisk sparrow]

most likely not

[grand anvil]

I mean I’m cool with everyone, as far as I’m concerned. I just don’t like conflict.

[brazen drift]

yeah, but they are american based. Or at least they were, idk where pewds has been over his career but i know jack at leats did live in california

[mossy timber]

Honestly I hope most Youtbuers stay clear of SKG now with the drama cloud around it

[thick ledge]

conflict sucks

but no one here started it

[grand anvil]

WORD

[main citrus]

Oh no.
https://x.com/OhNoItsAlexx/status/1938025792023261528?t=Pem-FaP25bGKVIh9kD_xZw&s=19

Himborino Thiccino (@OhNoItsAlexx)

7am est tomorrow

X · Jun 26, 2025, 12:05 AM

[river cargo]

especially when it's much bigger youtubers

[nova bough]

nobody cares about scummy practices as long as it makes big $$$. like loot boxes and most gacha games.

[thick solar]

A'ight, I've had enough internet drama for the day. I'm gonna sleep and dream about the game my ADHD makes me hate working on even though i want to.

[mossy timber]

We didn't start the fire

[mellow goblet]

oh great

more farming

[thick ledge]

gotta ge those SICK dollars

[hoary pawn]

Listen, I say this as a fan and someone who loves tuning into your streams and as someone who you legitimately helped on my journey to becoming a game developer…. this is what people’s problem with you is. You say something that is not true, people call you out for it, and then you rephrase but WITHOUT admitting you were wrong originally. It is goalpost shifting. The smugness doesn’t help either.

[gloomy forge]

I'd put up a new citizen initiative where people aren't allowed to talk about drama anymore, only descriptors to use inside the videos are LUL emotes and posting emojis of pregnant men (can have different styles and different colors).

"The pregnant man situation CHANGED MY LIFE"

[nocturne oasis]

conflict is good as it invites change, the issue is the uncivil shit slingers

[teal zodiac]

ok, FINALLY a somewhat good drama thumbnail

[muted robin]

yeah the clickbait hater thumbnails are going crazy around this

[fleet osprey]

So let me get this straight, if 1 community said it was a bad thing, yet 10 communities said it's a good thing, how is it then that 1 communities fault im so confused

[frozen nimbus]

Im really upset that theres nothing major to do agiesnt hate waves, like what can we do, REASON with people? Thats impossible

[flint raft]

“No we don’t use troll bots to spam comments in videos about piratesoftware, that’d be crazy”
🤷 I dunno this person is spamming like a bot

[wary drift]

Honestly I feel like this is not really getting anywhere good at this point, so may I make a suggestion?

https://tenor.com/view/ferrets-sleeping-ferret-cat-mustelid-gif-26311421

[thick ledge]

this might be YOUR problem, but people are all over the place

[brazen drift]

either way, it doesn't change the fact that he didn't promote it to the people that actually mattered or it probably would have gotten signatures. Ross forgets that the EU also has non-english speaking countries in it.

[white mica]

random defuser comment, the screen door handle im trying to copy/remodel in tinkercad since mine keeps falling out

[muted robin]

because thor obviously has a magical mind control forcefield where anything he says makes people instantly agree with him (even though the very videos he first uploaded about it are pretty much unanimous disagreement with him)

[warped venture]

Yes

[supple cedar]

Those bots have been around for years. Putting blame in the wrong place.

[jolly sky]

Nah that happens in almost every Moist video

[wet storm]

That's UTTP they troll everyone

[frozen nimbus]

There is not much debate anymore here, just us being sadge

[main citrus]

He's someone i followed for years. Been watching for a while. I'll wait to pass proper judgement as I didnt follow everything super closely.

[wary drift]

https://tenor.com/view/marder-ferret-cute-spin-wiesel-gif-18385357

[brisk grove]

ive been trying to learn tinkercad, but idk y but shit confuses me lol

[mossy timber]

man these post showed me how quick it is to report tweets for harrassment

[frigid crown]

I'm not trying to defend drama farmers here, I've just been talking about Ross at this point. I don't really know/care what farmers have to say on it. Also he did reach out and try for a discussion and not implying you have to do that, but it seems he wanted to address what he viewed as misinformation that he never was able to discuss as a last ditch effort.

[minor nymph]

What did I say that was untrue.
State it specifically and without handwaving.

[wet storm]

Spain but no a

[fluid dome]

I just wanna see thor yap about cool stuff he finds on his side quests in the woods, didn't know I signed for twitter drama 😭

[exotic locust]

In the video he states he doesn't have the resources to translate the campaign to multiple languages outside of the translation on the site.

[uncut plaza]

oh hi thor

[brisk grove]

its BOGO

[charred wolf]

UTTP is NOT a part of this, they're like scavengers.

[teal zodiac]

i mean, i care very little about the content, im just severely judging those horrible and low effort drama thumnails that most of the videos are using

cmon people, up your game, DO BETTER

[charred wolf]

Actual hyenas.

[river cargo]

let's be honest ross's original Q&A video was not very good either

[white mica]

that was me with blender, i tried using it and have used it for other modeling but for some reason when i try and do stuff to 3d print i just go back to monke, when i tried tinkercad since its free i instantly picked up on it and havent switched since

[frigid crown]

He has been trying to get non english speaking creators to speak about it

[thick ledge]

thor deserves to be able to wallow in the woods mud and not have people shit up his comments

[frozen nimbus]

Contiue for the fun stuff, dont let some random mean people in the interent you never met ruin that

[thick ledge]

he so badly wants to crawl in the woods and get mushrooms

[brazen drift]

then that is why it failed, because he Couldnt. not because thor misrepresetnted it. because he couldnt Translate it for the millions of people that dont speak english natively

[frozen nimbus]

He craves the mushrooms

[jovial sandal]

google translate is... not a great option for talking about policy matters

[thick ledge]

delicious mushed room

[mossy timber]

I wonder when the NSFW furry avatar rumor is going to start up again

[tight bramble]

-Speaks in mud and rock language-

[mellow goblet]

isnt ros' audiance like 80% American

[thick ledge]

yeah

[ocean agate]

the mushrooms hunger, and Thor feeds them trolls and in turn they feed him

[brisk grove]

nooooooooo, dont jinx it

[thick ledge]

not the best promoter for a european movement

[white mica]

my mind conjured up an image of thor going mushroom picking and in the middle of picking a mushroom a man in a guille suit appears from out of the woods, takes a dump on a mushroom, and walks back into the brush never to be seen again

[honest meadow]

Would a break help? Idk much about the whole drama but this shit can't be healthy

[earnest mirage]

not really. Hardware accelerated is everything that runs specific instructions on the hardware itself compared to a piece of software using basic instructions which usually is hundrets to thousands of times slower.

[vivid coral]

I do want to say,

Thor and mods take the time you need, lot of things are happening take the time you need to feel better and stream/mod to the best you can. You all are doing a lot don't let it get to you!

[brazen drift]

Yeah you gotta Network for that and it sorta seems like this guy hasn't been able to network in any meaningful way

[hoary pawn]

You said that Ross waited 10 months to refute your claims about the SKG initiative.

He did not, he responded your video almost immediately and definitely did not remain silent until now.

You agreed with me (I think) and rephrased to “failed to refute.”

Are you trying to say that you define “refute” as ONLY factually disproving someone? Because if so, I guess that would mean that you think he factually disproved you now… 10 months later, right?

[wet storm]

Take a break from stiffing your neck looking at drama discussions to see this awesomesauce ion ship

[haughty pelican]

Funny bc the EU has no native English nation

[mellow goblet]

yeahhh not the best idea to try to leverage an audience for a an EU based movement when that isnt ur market to begin with

[jolly sky]

Man, common sense really is completely, absolutely dead on the Internet and social media

[brazen drift]

YEAH

not anymore

[thick ledge]

pog

[main citrus]

Youre just learning about this now?

[vivid coral]

And don't forget to breath

[jolly sky]

No, I'm just surprised at just how depraved it gets

[frozen nimbus]

When was it ever a thing

[nova bough]

"Man, common sense really is completely, absolutely dead"

fixed that for you

[tight bramble]

@minor nymph this weekend is payday, and I make plenty to be comfortable, so I got another hundo with the teams name on it for you.

[thick ledge]

wtf its like 9

[charred wolf]

Do people take opinions as facts?

[main citrus]

This happened a few months ago with the WoW thing.

[minor nymph]

That's what refute means.
He failed to prove me wrong.
He failed to refute me.

What you see as evasion I see as a rigid adherence to language and rules.
I do this with everything and choose words specifically.

[gloomy forge]

Has been for the last 14 years or so.

[marble kindle]

The clout goblin strikes again

[thick ledge]

guys stop rage baiting me on the internet

i gotta feed my cat

[white mica]

kekw, did the same thing

[vivid coral]

An the golden rule add that there

[gloomy forge]

LookUp

[thick ledge]

acorn craves the cat slop

[grand anvil]

Well now I gotta know the cat’s name 👀

[thick ledge]

acorns name is acorn

she is orange

[fluid dome]

Ik but it's hard tbh bc conflict like this is terrible for me due to the way my brain works. This whole situation makes my head hurt tryna parse it and its everywhere so I can't avoid. I just wanna be in my lil cozy corner of the Internet wit my fursona and writing cool things and playing games.

Conflict gives me bad flashbacks

[thick ledge]

hold on let me get a pic

[frozen nimbus]

Zaf Shrek go cart is the worst game in existence

/j

[mellow goblet]

wait people thought common sense existed on the internet?

[grand anvil]

OMG SHE’S NAMED ACORN THATS ADORABLE

[mossy timber]

https://tenor.com/view/careful-icarus-craig-ferguson-icarus-gif-12108154

[stone trench]

wait people think?

[warped venture]

we love acorn

[flint raft]

What’s starting to get under my skin is how the drama around Thor and Ross is making people go after their fans and people who work for them.
That’s not okay.

[summer marsh]

It's especially difficult to remain civil and open-minded in a heated time like this, common sense is still out there man but it's very easy for everyone to get caught up in the moment

[thick ledge]

acorn

[grand anvil]

Bro, Acorn is such an adorable name

[thick ledge]

she has a plush acorn

[main citrus]

KITTY!

[grand anvil]

AWWWWWWW

[mellow goblet]

barely

[gloomy forge]

SoCute

[thick ledge]

she is very small

like 7 pounds

[frozen sonnet]

Meatball thinks

[minor nymph]

Anyway, I'm getting food.
Seeya nerds in a bit.

[supple cedar]

Fans are making themselves the victims is what I'm seeing.

[main citrus]

Smol kitty.

[thick ledge]

enjoy food

[jolly sky]

It still just bewilders me.

[white mica]

goodbye

[grand anvil]

Not to be dramatic, but I’d do shady things for acorn.

[frozen sonnet]

Enjoy the food captain!

[thick ledge]

make sure it includes some wild forage you need that for a healthy thor

[vivid coral]

Enjoy your food

[frozen nimbus]

I mean you still got the rest of community for stuff, just leave this channel and hide it. Dw about all the drama happening

[flint raft]

I mean i didn’t even do anything and someone in a comment called me a boot licking trout 🤷

[teal zodiac]

mods!! mods!!! Punish this person with 1hr of League of Legends please!!!

[hoary pawn]

So, just to clarify, do you do you think that Ross has completely different points now compared to his comments 10 months ago? And only NOW has he been able to refute you?

So… you do agree that you were wrong about a many things regarding SKG, right?

Also, I will admit that I was wrongly understanding “refute” as argue and not the proper definition. I apologize.

[frozen nimbus]

Share some with me im starving

[thick ledge]

he left

[frozen nimbus]

🙏

[thick ledge]

enjoy my cat instead

[fluid dome]

Kibby

[frozen nimbus]

NOOOO

[marble kindle]

I’m surprised at just how nasty the situation has gotten but really I shouldn’t be.

[jolly sky]

Yea, for one being the Kitboga video being taken down after Anti-Thor people got their hands on it

[frozen nimbus]

Anyways coco

[tight bramble]

I dont have a cat..... I have a corgi, though....

[flint raft]

Was just like “I wanna wait till I hear all the info”

[thick ledge]

@hoary pawn look at my cat

[faint rapids]

Is anyone else hungry

[brisk grove]

Now I must share mine

[grand anvil]

Honestly, I need a break too with my furbaby. Ya boi is heckin stressed. I hope everyone has a wonderful evening and drinks plenty of water 💙🧡

[river cargo]

ross points weren't great back then either

[hoary pawn]

Thx for letting me know. I hope I didn’t come across as some sort of Charlie loyalist that just wants to hate or whatever

[frozen nimbus]

Also felix

[supple cedar]

There's an ass load of bootlicking going on all around for both sides. I wouldn't be worried about it

[hoary pawn]

I can’t really see but your cat is cute nonetheless

[exotic locust]

To support this, Ross made an FAQ video after The two vids Thor made. He does not name Thor or Pirate software specifically. Just the arguments.

https://youtu.be/sEVBiN5SKuA?si=EptW06wGfovRhFtG

[flint raft]

I get that, but they’re acting like we’re all like that

[thick ledge]

@hoary pawn do you have a pet? i think we all get too charged up about all this and should post pets

[uncut plaza]

ew

[shadow dawn]

Send pics please

[frozen sonnet]

I love them

[white mica]

you posted this right as i clicked on the picture coco da cat sent and i thought the picture turned into a plate of nuts for a second

[haughty pelican]

Isn’t Ross American? Is he even allowed to start an EU petition?

[hoary pawn]

Yes, I have a German shepherd doggo

[thick ledge]

post doggo

[fluid dome]

Funfairs r really cool :3

[hoary pawn]

Thank you

[exotic locust]

He lives in poland

[marble kindle]

The entirety of the Midwest is on fire and we are arguing about video games on the internet.

[faint rapids]

A whole tray of them

[uncut plaza]

big ol' red ones

[edgy oar]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-bread-meme-googly-eyes-lick-gif-4828919955563198017

[brisk sparrow]

i must see the corg

[fleet osprey]

My counter question is this, if someone made a comment about something you were working on, that had catastrophic fallout because if it, would you not go out of your way to correct the misinformation, address it, constructively, and put the matter to rest

Or wait 10 months and point fingers and say "Mr man ruined my project"

[golden latch]

im on fire? When?

[elder scaffold]

Me want peanut platter but no teeths to nom the peanut 😭

[grand anvil]

Mah furbaby Daisy. I swear she’s one of the cutest snoozers

[main citrus]

Kimty

[marble kindle]

I am going to go make some soup and if people haven’t smartened up by the time I get back, I will be disappointed.

[charred wolf]

Assuming Ross is being honest, him dragging Thor back into the ring is supposed to be a "last ditch effort" for SKG and he never wanted this.

[thick ledge]

OOOGH

[gloomy forge]

@exotic locust maybe discuss that with Thor once he is back, could be of value to him to look it up because its a more concise proposition and critique to some of Thors points.

[thick ledge]

she looks like a snausage

[thick ledge]

i love her

[grand anvil]

She’s my lil baked potato and I love her haha

[teal zodiac]

cable management
cable management
cable management

[faint rapids]

Here's a trophy for whoever recognized the meme🏆

[gloomy forge]

you guys have great cats.

[nova bough]

we dont talk about my cavle managemenr

[wary drift]

Honestly, it's worse than just that it isn't translated.
The entire movement was extremely American in how it was handled.
Like, one of the people on the actually ECI page is from my country, obviously could tell from their name.
I tried looking them up to see if they might work in the industry or something, and the first thing I found was them reposting one of the memey adverts for SKG which themes how games are getting killed like Mario and how the movement can stop this, and...

That is unbelievably weird to see in my native tongue.
Like, culturally speaking, that just doesn't work here. In pure english form it kind of works, as you look at it through the lens of it being a foreigner's advert, but it just feels weird and off putting when presented in the local language, really driving home that all the messaging was made for an American audience.

It's hard to explain to someone who hasn't experienced something like this first hand, but I guess it's kind of like a weird, inverted version of the Rice Ball/Jelly Doughnut thing from old anime localizations, mixed with a touch of "How do you do fellow kids/Europeans".

[fluid dome]

I met my now gf at a fair ground.

We had other people we were going with and we got ditched separately and bumped into each other, spent the whole day playing carnival games and drinking.

Best day of my life.

[tight bramble]

Everyone, meet Butters

[grand anvil]

OMG I LOVE BUTTERS

[frigid crown]

As for the American starting EU petition, it's dead in the water in the US from the start and he sees the EU as a big enough market that it can make meaningful change. Sure some people may not agree with that logic but we have benefited from some things that have been made into law in the EU.

[frozen sonnet]

Love that for you

[gloomy forge]

hooly gigacute

[lime vine]

my doggos. The middle one passed away a month ago. He was like 14 or 13 years old.

[thick ledge]

i dont think thor ever wanted to debate it in the first place, back then, every 3rd message was asking what the thought and he just got tired of repeating himself, so he made a video, everyone got angry, so he tried to make another video clarifying what he ment, and then he just wanted nothing to do with it because people got so toxic

[jolly sky]

(Not my cat, random Internet cat)

[thick ledge]

he never wanted to seriously impede anything

just give his take because people asked

and they asked ALOT

[charred wolf]

💜

[grand anvil]

Aww, well I’m glad he got to live a good long life 💙🧡

[nova bough]

https://tenor.com/view/first-time-meme-first-time-the-ballad-of-buster-scruggs-gif-24656975

[brazen drift]

Well yeah, SKG was made for an american audience, he was only pushing it to the EU because he figured that's where stuff would actually happen since most of us know Laws About Games in America always go poorly

[thick ledge]

lmfao

[shadow dawn]

Omg they are so precious, best dog

[hoary pawn]

Your data is a little skewed.

PirateSoftware made video critiquing SKG.

Ross makes a FAQ refuting Pirate’s demonstrably misinformed points.

10 months go by, and Charlie makes a video covering SKG and how PirateSoftware contributed to the initiative’s “failure.” (Although it’s not technically failed yet)

[brazen drift]

Which is probably another reason it failed.

[charred wolf]

I don't really own any pets but check out this bunny that visited me

[thick ledge]

he made 2 videos, in the second he gets pretty insulting saying he has an unchecked ego, when in reality he has had to answer that question so many times hes just not putting his whole ass into it anymore

[tight bramble]

The close up of his face, is the face he makes when you rub his belly

[lime vine]

I got the golden retriever last december. Someone threw him out on the streets. And now he digged and ate all the flowers in the garden.

[wary drift]

I'm not sure.
Did Ross really start it?
Because these are the actual names under the ECI, and it kind of feels like there was a European group and they got an American entertainer to be their PR guy.

[frigid crown]

As part of that, Ross did reach out for a discussion in between those videos and I think was somewhat upset seeing him make another video on the topic despite not wanting to talk about it. Not to say Thor HAS to talk about it but just from his perspective it didn't seem great.

[grand anvil]

I actually saw a bunny on my way to take off trash this morning, it almost jumpscared me 😂

[thick ledge]

thor just wanted people to stop asking, i dont think he ever wanted to engage

[jolly sky]

Except there was no misinformation. Thor only talked about things that were clearly stated, in a vaguely written Initiative

[thick ledge]

so he figured, make a video, then link it when people asked

[charred wolf]

Cute.

[earnest mirage]

Meeball

[thick ledge]

MEEBALL

[nova bough]

saw this birb today. havent googled what it is

[teal zodiac]

ok...here we go again....

[grand anvil]

Lil fluffer ran off into the tall grass as I caught my breath LOL

[hoary pawn]

Here are my doggos

[untold seal]

Have any AA, or substantially popular indie game developer commented or showed support for this?

[thick ledge]

https://tenor.com/view/no-gif-19426083

[frigid crown]

That's fair, just didn't look the best from an outside perspective is all

[nova bough]

https://tenor.com/view/stop-it-get-some-help-gif-15058124

[thick ledge]

hes never been one to put up fronts for public image, he just kinda, says what he thinks very bluntly

[flint raft]

Hey…so I read the tweets Thor sent…I’m not trying to be disrespectful I promise I’m not, but he was kinda being rude

[thick ledge]

and people dont like that

[lime vine]

My cat named Rüdi.

[golden latch]

Love yourself

[brazen drift]

i believe i remember something about how he has an entire legal team in the EU to cover that because he can't.

[gloomy forge]

@thick ledge yeah I also don't understand why people can't just sit down and wait until a situation develops. Being toxic just murks the waters and people double down on any opinion.

You know what? heres my prediction of any of this. The initiative gets proposed, sees itself 4 years in lawmaking hell. Leads into a "compromises" and 7 years from today people are like "Remember the times before THIS SET OF LAWS when gaming was still good? Yeah those were the days."

Also they will just blame Thor for everything. Hopefully not the case and reasonable people are actually "hmm, maybe it leads to better regards in consumer friendlyness." Would be cool if it includes hardware. I hate hardware intentionally breaking so cosumers buy the same shit at regular times.

[thick ledge]

thats just kind of how he communicates

[grand anvil]

Yeah, I won’t lie, I’ve been put off by some things he’s said, but I acknowledge he’s blunt, so I understand.

Well, kinda, at least.

[flint raft]

Yeah

[thick ledge]

bro just says whats on his mind

[fleet osprey]

That it may be, but in this scenario, there were similar sized creators, if not larger ones, talking about SKG and Thor's reaction to it trying to correct it

I'm unaware if Ross made a video or not disecting thors comments, but a text base FAQ Vs a video isn't a good idea (if he made a video, I then have a comment on how it should have been promoted better)

TLDR, he's had 10 months to atleast try and clean up the "mess" that Thor made and, as someone who spends alot of time on social media, I haven't heard shit other than 1 or 2 videos covering it

[thick ledge]

i respect the fact he doesnt flower it up for people

[earnest spire]

to much trooling

[fluid dome]

One guy's name is called Zoltan, that's so based

[grand anvil]

Yeah, I’ve done that too, so that’s why I don’t judge.

[frigid crown]

Right he's not obligated to, just saying that can rub people the wrong way. I don't blame Thor, I wish people would cut the shit flinging because the hate has been crazy.

[flint raft]

I know that, but I can see why people would be saying he’s being a certain way

[wary drift]

https://tenor.com/view/zoltar-wish-gif-13097438

[thick ledge]

people just decide hes some kind of egoist when in reality hes super considerate of all kinds of stuff and people

bro runs an animal rescue out of pocket

[faint rapids]

No pets right now but check out this giant worm I found while mowing

[thick ledge]

hes building a whole animal rescue facility just because he cares

[hoary pawn]

He has cleaned up “the mess Thor made.” The problem is that Thor’s video still scared away people who didn’t fully understand the initiative… that was Charlie’s point in the video and why he felt the need to bring up PirateSoftware in the retrospect of the movement.

[flint raft]

Well ngl I was kinda taken aback by some of the things he said

[wary drift]

(Also, technically his name is Zoltán, but I guess the EU cannot afford UTF-8 encoding on their sites.)

[brazen drift]

also per the official website;

[grand anvil]

I think one big problem is people look at it WAY too much in a black and white manner.

[frigid crown]

Bruh

[jolly sky]

Get off reddit buddy, you have school tomorrow

[thick ledge]

you organized this sentence wrong

[vivid coral]

Thank you mods

[golden latch]

Hell yeah bugs

[hoary pawn]

What did that guy post I didn’t even see lol

[thick ledge]

and thats the kind of thing that puts thor off of having discussions with people

[golden latch]

Just insults

[thick ledge]

he said thor was a "greasy moron"

and other things

[lime vine]

[haughty pelican]

An insult

[fleet osprey]

If he successfully cleaned up thors mess, then why blame him for the petitions shortcomings?

[hoary pawn]

Cringe

[frigid crown]

Jesus man I hate that that type of guy is "on my side"

[thick ledge]

theres ALOT of it

[nova bough]

i blame this on his voice. he tends to sound authoritative without trying.

[thick ledge]

you can see why it might agitate thor

if i saw 5000 comments like that id be hostile too

[fluid dome]

I drew something hehehehehe

[flint raft]

Yeah but calling people stupid makes him look bad too

[golden latch]

Discussing is fine, insults are not i think we all can agree here atleast

[thick ledge]

not to mention the death threats and the police showing up ect

[tight bramble]

The military calls that a command voice, just to add.

[lime vine]

Yeah.

[frigid crown]

I honestly see both sides, I've been a fan of Thor for a while so I'm aware and I know about the ferret rescue stuff. The hate raiders annoy me as well because it just detracts from the discussion

[thick ledge]

heres my favorite cat photo

[faint rapids]

Thought someone might like this one too

[thick ledge]

actually sitting still and looking at the camera

[flint raft]

He looks like my Oliver!

[nova bough]

have they ever gotten the fabled braincell

[thick ledge]

mantisss

[hoary pawn]

Sorry, by “cleaned up Thor’s mess” I mean refute Thor’s points against the movement.

The problem was the people that never bothered to look at Ross’s response because of his platforms smaller size compared to Thor’s. Also Thor never made a video going over the things he was wrong about.

This contributed to many people walking away with a skewed and misinformed understanding of the initiative, hence Ross’s and Charlie’s frustration.

[thick ledge]

no never

[thick ledge]

thats not necessarily thors fault though if people dont do thier due diligence

[wary drift]

Also, man, mods are working like ninjas.
I keep looking away for one second only to find that not only was something awful posted, but it's already culled.
I'm halfway tempted to challenge the mods to a game of Duck Hunt, randomly posting 🦆 just to see how fast they can zap the post.

[thick ledge]

he tells us all the time to do our due diligence

[nova bough]

a true orange through and through then

[thick ledge]

and not to take his word as fact

[formal kestrel]

yeah its the voice and tone that some people dont like for whatever reason, was the same with wow 6 months ago, people didnt care what he said they just heard how he sounds and then took everything the wrong way as a result

[spring kettle]

Just finished reading the tweets from Thor, tbh can’t really defend his response. Some of his points I agree with, but he simply refuses to apologize or admit fault in any way, and that is the thing that would have convinced be to continue to be on his side here. I understand why he is angry, but he was proven incorrect on a few things and just refuses to admit fault. So see ya, I hope this whole situation is resolved in a kinder way than it has been going so far.

[brisk sparrow]

ross also made a video recently

[warped venture]

https://tenor.com/view/duck-hunt-nes-laughing-gif-9700788

[jolly sky]

If Thor had such a high Ego, and was as narcissistic as some people have been lead to believe, then neither me or other random people that have talked with him an VC room here in the channel would have been able to have polite discussions where we have talked about several things and understood each others points with him

[brazen drift]

I would like to know how many people he actually scared away, since Thor is an american streamer, and if he did have a European audience I wonder how many can Actually vote for it since England isn't actually a part of the EU anymore. I'm sure that takes away a HUGE part of the voting block for that.

[charred wolf]

Nuance and reason are incredibly difficult to get around, you have to do it delicately and with fine gloves but people love just trying to throw punches at each other.

[brisk sparrow]

thats why this whole thing restarted

[gloomy forge]

If what people say is true when it comes to commanding voices then Thor should just use his command haki or whatever he has for a voice for people to stop trolling. Maybe they will work?

[wary drift]

🦆

[thick ledge]

he should use the dune word or whatever

[brisk grove]

can we stop discussing the drama and talk about how cute @thick ledge(Bug) 's cat is? lol

[gloomy forge]

@brazen drift almost 100% of the younger population (age 40 or less) in europe knows english.

[wary drift]

https://tenor.com/view/drawify-goal-target-archery-bullseye-gif-26800236

[gritty cove]

How many people got banned on this server for talking about SKG (stopkillinggames)

[thick ledge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je0ksgGSSf8 he should say these things

[honest meadow]

RudeJackArt is goated

[thick ledge]

no one gets banned for that, weve been doing it all day

[nova bough]

my two goblin kitties arent being cute or id contribute more

[thick ledge]

being insulting gets you slapped tho

[outer gust]

we dont ban you if you're being normal

[jolly sky]

We're talking about it right now in polite ways.

Read, polite.

[elder scaffold]

None?

[honest meadow]

https://tenor.com/view/brothers-mario-luigi-funny-faces-rudejackart-gif-8135539913829109563

[fluid dome]

https://tenor.com/view/dune-part-2-part-two-silence-reverend-mother-the-voice-gif-6788220246483626244

[warped venture]

you can talk about it we ban people insulting and threatening others

[charred wolf]

How many of them were not constructive about what they were trying to say?

[fleet osprey]

Even if all of this is true, why wait until the end. I know he said he didn't want to shit stir but the guy had access to analytics, he would have seen the decline in signatures, if this was his pride and joy, he let the thing burn for 10 months then ran in with pirate software themed wet towel to try and clean it up

[frigid crown]

Doesn't help that any time I want to jump in there's about 20 messages between what I want to respond to and mine. Especially if trying to talk with multiple people

[hoary pawn]

YouTube is not only in America. A bigger video will reach more people than a smaller video. I can’t see an argument where

“well actually Thor’s video only really reached Americans and Ross’s video only really reached people in the EU and so Thor never had a detrimental effect on the initiative

[thick ledge]

internet hard

at the end of the day, people should remember thors just a guy with opinions and not god

[frigid crown]

Yup internet do be hard

[thick ledge]

you dont have to agree with him

[hushed vine]

just joining discussion, btw.

my point is that it kinda sucks that ross decided to bring up thor in his latest video

[thick ledge]

hes just livin life like everyone else

[charred wolf]

Part of how it is to be behind a pretty popular hot topic.

[grand anvil]

Honestly, I’d respectfully argue that there’s just a lot of emotions running rn.

[gloomy forge]

this but apply it to all content creators big or smol.

[thick ledge]

ofc, emotes run high, hes just a guy

[hoary pawn]

CHARLIE waited until the end because his video is more of a retrospective on the movement.

[honest meadow]

Even so it shouldn't be getting to this point

[haughty pelican]

Thor approached the movement solely as it was written, bc that it what the lawman will see, Ross insulted everyone in political possitions with the easy win bit and Thor took that negatively

[tight bramble]

Lisan al gaib!!

[thick ledge]

lease an al gaib!

[jolly sky]

Emotions leading to misunderstandings leading to hatred leading to disgusting behaviour

[gritty cove]

Okay good because personally I am on the SKG side on this. I think it's bogus that some believe consumers shouldn't have a right to their product but instead a key. I get blackouts where I am because of weather it truly sucks I don't own the thing I purchase.

[grand anvil]

Very true. I think too many people are taking different things personally.

[tight bramble]

What's the annual mileage? 12k?

[brazen drift]

But do they watch Thor? Not saying he isn't incredibly "influential" but if this was an american signed petition and didn't have all the weird hardstops of "only these people could vote for it" i'd believe Thor did a lot of harm - but even with that audience if thor gets 20k viewers and every one of those signed it it still wouldn't be enough for the one million it would need.

[flint raft]

I like Thor, I do.
I respect him a lot.
But I’m disappointed at how he was calling Ross a greasy car salesman using snake oil tactics.

It’s deeply upsetting

[jovial sandal]

And what do you believe SKG will do in your case?

[thick ledge]

@gritty cove thats fine to disagree, plenty of people in here have nuanced opinions on it, i believe the idea goes too far, i think a cigarette style warning label being required on games that will one day close down would be enough

[fluid dome]

The only right opinion is that pineapple on pizza is goated and anyone who disagrees Will be sent to the Lithuanian salt mines

[untold seal]

Thor has become one of the most unpopular and hated people in gaming for the past 6 months (and it started also when he posted his two SKG videos), yet somehow he has a major influence on why the petition failed.

It makes no sense whatsoever lmao

[hoary pawn]

Thor insulted Ross too man and he insulted him FIRST… listen I get it that you like and appreciate Thor as a person and as a content creator. But you can’t just cherry pick things to make Thor look better.

[gloomy forge]

@brazen drift I don't know the statistics but surely quite a lot of people in europe watch him as he is streaming during european friendly times quite often.

[thick ledge]

buy now for the winter sale and we will throw in a free thumper!

[golden latch]

I can see that frustration have you bought games you do have full ownership of?

[jolly sky]

It started long before than, and the drama train just moves from topic to topic

[gritty cove]

What I want is part of their goal. It doesn't need to be specific. it's why some disliked PirateSoftware's take. It was a pretty hot burning take.

[trail ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/arting-siamese-cat-gigachad-ambatukam-ambasing-gif-26293326

[haughty pelican]

The idea isn’t exactly bad but the legislation that it being push as it’s written is flawed

[thick ledge]

hes apologized for that part on twitter today, and said it was uncool to do that

[gritty cove]

Minecraft ig

[brazen drift]

Yeah which is why I didn't say he DIDNT have a EU audience, I just assume MOST of that EU audience is in England - which isn't part of the EU

[versed valley]

He recently did one of No Country For Old Men

[tight bramble]

Add all weather floor mats and you got a deal

[fluid dome]

Why can't we beef about silly things

[gloomy forge]

@brazen drift and 80% of europeans watch english streamers.

[frigid crown]

I honestly don't see a point in them having a discussion at this point, it's far too late for that imo. I was upset with how it all went down and would have liked to see a discussion but it's totally up to him and that's okay. Really I've just been trying to correct info that targets ross because it seems like the rest of yall have that covered on Thors side

[jolly sky]

Thing is, something written into law NEEDS to be specific, including an Initiative, which SKG was not

[hoary pawn]

Thor waited 10 months to apologize…

[untold seal]

That the point no? He is hated on , so therefore they movement should have grown stronger towards the other direction and the petition should have been filled by now

[charred wolf]

To be completely honest, it's really difficult to say it in front of his audience but I think you're right. Thor didn't approach him in good faith to begin with and he has gone on the record to say he regrets doing that.

[supple cedar]

Charlie and Thor during all the drama: 💰🤑

Fans during all the drama: 😭🤬🤡

Remember which one you are

[digital patrol]

No, one of my friends had their minecraft java entirely revoked for 0 reason and was forced to buy it again after contacting mojang and microsoft about it

[blissful gale]

Well this is just a fact

[brisk sparrow]

Ross waited 10 months to bring it up again, just sayin

[white mica]

thor does not need to apologise for stating his own personal informed opinion on a subject

[earnest spire]

he owned to that

[thick ledge]

he just disengaged with it entirely, i thought this whole thing was over and then it reared its head again

[golden latch]

Gog is a great place to get games if you are looking for more, vote with your wallet is a very strong method

[thick ledge]

it has been over for like 10 molnths

months*

[flint raft]

Charlie is saying he and Thor talked and that Thor was being disrespectful to him

[wary drift]

For the record, Thor has repeatedly said that he agrees that this is an issue (with the limitation that online games require the ability to take away your access to the servers since, you know, if some hacker finds a way to ruin the game for everyone or worse harm the servers or other players' computers, the company needs some ability to just say 'you don't get to connect to our servers anymore').
He only ever criticised the vagueness of the solution and that this solution would cause harm if certain types of games are included under its umbrella.

[fluid dome]

@thick ledge stinky <3

[thick ledge]

relitigating it is exhausting for everyone

[fleet osprey]

Well no? Ross waited until the end THEN Charlie made a video?

I'm not saying what pirate said wasn't bad or wrong, quite frankly I don't know much about the movement

Just like them saying they don't think thors response is adequate, I don't believe there's is either

Again, Ross did a quick response, waited 10 months with next to no updates, then played victim

Unless you can prove to me that he made a valiant effort before his most recent video to fix it's reputation

[hoary pawn]

Charlie is probably mainly to credit for the recent uproar.

[nova bough]

didnt thor demonetize the response vide for specifically this response?

[thick ledge]

@fluid dome

[charred wolf]

Again, optics game is uh, not ideal. I'm not going to argue against Thor's or Ross' points because I am literally illiterate on the actual subject.

[supple cedar]

All publicity is good publicity when you're making money

[thick ledge]

thor has demonitized the response videos yeah

[charred wolf]

I'm only concerned about fair play and respect.

[gritty cove]

Majority disagrees with that burning take for a reason. The goal is simple, we believe we should have rights to the product. Not a license key that needs online services to be activated. If the company decided to quit the game, we lose access to the product. The whole point of the movement is for us to have rights.

[fluid dome]

Custard creams or bourbon biscuits

[jovial sandal]

publicity... for a demonitized video?

[jolly sky]

Yea, which proves that most of the hatred wasn't even about Thors messaging about SKG, it was just something else for the hater to latch onto

[hoary pawn]

Er, apologies, you are correct. Both of their videos were more of retrospectives/explanations of the initiative.

[thick ledge]

i dont think anyone disagrees with this, some of us just want them to be more specific to protect things like indie developers from undue strain

[versed valley]

Thor spoke his piece on the matter and that's all there is

[shadow dawn]

And we appreciate that you are so civil about this

[fleet osprey]

Apology accepted 😄

[jolly sky]

There are many games that exist where that cannot happen, which has been mentioned many times in this channel

[fluid dome]

I'm starting the great snack war of 2025

[red trench]

I dont usually comment, but I think the whole point is that sure things weren't specific and even if it did go to the eu court likely nothing would have happened, but that theres still no harm in that happening? however actively discouraging people to get behind a movement that has inherently has nothing but good things actively goes against the premise of the movement and just harms the movemts future

[thick ledge]

he says he didnt want the drama but still indulged in it -shrug-

[gritty cove]

If it's specific to one cause the rest will be ignored. I want to mod my game doesn't mean SKG isn't protesting for me.

[untold seal]

Still going to aak, any AA or solo developer with a fairly popular game commented /shown support for this?

[fluid dome]

Poutine sucks

[frigid crown]

There was not next to no updates but alright, he's been posting regular updates and trying to spread word by getting non-english speakers to take up the cause. He's not exactly a big Ytber but he's tried to get it out. Unless you were talking about Critikal which I dunno about his end

[charred wolf]

Can we all agree this is a tough thing for basically everyone involved to discuss? I'm not the only one who feels this way, right?

[golden latch]

Remember that cube tap breaking game back in the old days what was a mmo?

[nova bough]

more cats

[thick ledge]

thats a valid concern too, we all want the same things and we care alot about games, we just disagree on the approach

[summer marsh]

Definitely.

[haughty pelican]

If not you get the scenario of British hate speech law where people get arrested for minor infractions and dissent

[grand anvil]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-gif-19575284

[fleet osprey]

I saw he said, and this is paraphrasing "he didn't want to turn it into YouTube drama" but tbh if your watching your project crash and burn, you take the approach to fix it before it's too late

[thick ledge]

its always just been an approach disagreement

[jolly sky]

I'll put this out again as I've posted it before as a Metaphor for how SKG came across;

It's like if I wanted to put forward an initiative for Free Water for All, coming from a tap or faucet in every mile of a country. I make the Initiative look really nice and labelled all the good things that would happen if it went through. Good idea right?

But I didn't think about about the infrastructure changes.

The plumbing of the water,
the Laws about what piping is needed,
the storing of the water,
the land that would needed to be dug up for the plumbing to go into
the design of the faucets etc.

And then someone pointed out all these future issues, and I got extremely mad and blamed them for trying to "kill the movement".

This is something akin to what the SKG Initiative looked like, and how it all went down.

[thick ledge]

we are all behind the spriit of it

[hoary crater]

its hard to take a movement seriously when 99% of the discussion surrounding it is emotionally charged
yeah I know thor had the same issue but that doesnt make any of this any less right
I look in the comments of charlie's or someorginarygamer's videos and they're rabid angry even if the creators themselves are fine in that regard
I think if thor wasnt so quick to assume ross was in bad faith this would be resolved a lot more simply but at the same time that doesnt make the community somehow exempt, appeal to hypocrisy is still a fallacy

[grand anvil]

THIS

[gritty cove]

I wanna play MK1, find me a platform where I can purchase product and not the key.

[wary drift]

Outside of one heated outburst that he didn't follow up on, every time Thor engaged this topic, he explicitly told people not to take his word for it and instead go and read the ECI themselves and decide if they support it or not.

[jovial sandal]

Thor repeatedly said within the video that others should look into the issue themselves and not simply adopt his viewpoint. IDK what more people want from a video opposing SKG. Blind adherence?

[flint raft]

Which part?

[charred wolf]

Took the words right out of my mouth.

[hoary pawn]

🤝

[thick ledge]

the context thats missing is that for weeks people were harping on him so he got angry

[indigo wadi]

Hi

[thick ledge]

and then just stopped talking about it all together

[flint raft]

Hmm

[jolly sky]

Tell me where you can do that for a CD or DVD too. You don't own that product either, you own a license to use it.

[fluid dome]

Myke, you're French lite, correct?

[grand anvil]

Honestly, I understand that. That crap gets tiring after the 1000th time it’s seen, so I get that kinda approach.

[charred wolf]

Out of curiosity, how far apart were the SKG incident and the wow raid incident from each other?

[indigo wadi]

Lol no. I have no French in me

[faint rapids]

When you try to mow, but there's a scary guard dog

[thick ledge]

people are misconstruing malice on both sides where now im thinking there probably isnt any

[flint raft]

Yeah but you shouldn’t be insulting people

[urban venture]

skg video 10 months ago. wow was in january

[gritty cove]

I agree but thanks to Thor he did the opposite of intended. Instead SKG got some recognition. We need more people speaking a lot it. I want my product and not a key. I want to edit files. I want to preserve what I paid for.

[hoary crater]

I think its reasonable to leave the games in a state where at the very least they can run on LAN, i can think of countless games that work like that, other than that I dont see major issues with thor's logic

[grand anvil]

Never said you should

[edgy oar]

https://tenor.com/view/backflip-frog-gif-6186268304796348912

[wary drift]

Silverback energy

[charred wolf]

Thank you

[gloomy forge]

Personally, I feel that if you make a software purchase, at least to some extend (singleplayer games and such) the game should belong to ya.

Look at what GOG offers or itch, I think games on itch also belong to the person.

Its more complex when we talk about online games.

@gritty cove License keys are still useful if you want to gift someone a game, but it should be handled more like a unique ID rather than publishers stil ownign all rights. The problem here is publisher and ownership rights. If you buy "hardware", like a bunch of tissues, chances are they belong to you too. I'd want games to be handled similarly.

I feel that software is handled entirely digitally is a problem and requires important distinctions.

[indigo wadi]

A few months

[fluid dome]

Give it a lil smooch

[brisk sparrow]

you know what I want to see at this point? someone analyze everything thats public from start to finish. including from 10 months ago. i think that would be interesting

[thick ledge]

thor always just disagreed with the specific language in the proposal, not the spirit of it

[brazen drift]

He probably convinced a decent number of people, but there are 66 million people in france, 10 million in Sweden, and 84 million in Germany. Even though his video got 1 million views, theres enough people in the EU to offset that. It seems to me (and im assuming) that the Initiative was relying almost entirely on word of mouth. And it has no official translators to push it to the people that can actually vote for it. So even IF Thor is the actual "reason it failed" then its because it relied SOLEY on that word of mouth and not the actual statements it was making.

[brisk sparrow]

including comparing old versions of the SKG site

[nova bough]

ew, i dont. thats just more drama tbh

[flint raft]

There was a lot of drama between that time span

[gritty cove]

You answered a question with a question. I'll humor this. The whole point again is we don't want a key and the fact that even a DVD is just a license key is bogus.

[red trench]

Sure i can understand this but at least to me the alternative path if it did pass is that it could show the eu's stance on the movement and provide a precedent for what to improve on (mostly just finding the eu's stance on it which is extremely important for the movement in the future)

[digital patrol]

Were any attempts made by either side to discuss what problems actually exist and how they can be written better? the entire controversy from both sides feels like everyone is too stubborn to back down on their opinion (so generally, normal internet) and no one is making it any clearer for anyone else
-# i was unable to find clear responses from either side on what the problems with the opposition were

[fleet osprey]

Sorry, I haven't really been keeping up with his blog, I'm sure it's doing great for those already in his circle

But if Charlie, mudda and other content creators are so hell bent in pointing the blame at thor saying 2 videos about it negatively, why didn't they spend more time making videos about it going well

They clearly knew better? Thor made his video, brushed off his hands and was done, and yeah, it's easier to do damage than it is to fix, I get it. But everyone coming out the woodwork now saying that it could have been something if Thor had taken back what he said

Same thing goes for them, they could have made more content promoting it

At the end of the day, things like this fail, some things don't, is what it is

[frigid crown]

I get that approach but it's not like Ross directed people at him and actively avoided referring to him afterwards once it seemed like discussion was off the table, I know he brought him up in the recent video which I think could have been handled better but I really don't think there was malice in his mind throughout this whole shit.

[grand anvil]

Me personally, I agree and disagree with various things on both ends, but at the end of the day, I prefer to have an open mind when possible and try my best to respect everyone’s outlooks.

[jolly sky]

Well, you can't not have a key because digital downloads exist

[flint raft]

I been saying since the ps3 days that games are just licensed to players and they don’t actually own the game

[gloomy forge]

@brazen drift Yes exactly, but blaming Thor for everything is easier and its also so internet if you get my point.

[nova bough]

my cat diversions dont seem to be working

[haughty pelican]

Im going to point out that old GTA games would not be allowed to be sold if rockstar didn’t remove the songs due to licensing

[fluid dome]

Smartest thing to do rn is block Charlie, Muta and Ross and move tf on.

[brazen drift]

yeah orz

[frigid crown]

Oh I'm not trying to defend other people making videos about it, I barely keep up with the extra drama. I just try to correct info specifically to Ross

[gritty cove]

Yeah but stepping on something that can benefit a lot instead of spreading his specific wants would've been preferred. I do prefer this outcome because we got big youtubers talking about it

[flint raft]

Uh no?

[thick ledge]

no one was malicious, its the middlemen the ignite the beef and the frustration and fatigue gets to everyone

[charred wolf]

Seems like a fair point

[flint raft]

That’s telling me you don’t want to hear more than one side

[brazen drift]

People pinning blame on one majority instead of looking in depth for all the other reasons its failing.

[frigid crown]

Yep very unfortunate

[gritty cove]

You didn't answer my question

[jolly sky]

If SKG was purely about making it so that Login based, single player games were still accessible once the auth servers go down, that would have been an actual easy win. But wht SKG wanted was far more than it bargained for

[red trench]

Why would this be the smartest thing? thats just covering your ears when people are screaming at you hoping that it all ends

[fluid dome]

Why would you continue to engage the troll when you're trying to cross the bridge?

[flint raft]

That’s what I’m saying

[remote maple]

https://tenor.com/view/sad-tts-warhammer-corvus-bright-gif-26733992

[indigo wadi]

They're not arguing in good-faith

[hoary crater]

you cannot take a passive approach as a content creator
you are absolutely responsible for your community and need to be proactive in punishing those in your community that are sending death threats
I 100% blame ross for that, I hate it when creators pretend like they cant control their community, they absolutely can

[brazen drift]

You can control SOME of your community

[grand anvil]

Yeah, I don’t think calling for shutting anyone out is a good idea. If you wanna do that? Cool, but don’t try to force anyone to do what YOU believe is right.

[red trench]

That just immature man

[thick ledge]

having once been a member of thors team, we are extremely strict with enforcement on all our platforms

[flint raft]

Why would you only listen to one side of an argument?

[shadow dawn]

No keep sending them, they are the only reason i havent logged of discord yet

[brazen drift]

there are always going to be people who do what they want unfortunately.

[flint raft]

What?

[thick ledge]

if we found out some was going over to ross and talking shit, theyd be removed from all of thors platforms

the team does that routinely

[indigo wadi]

You can try, but to assume you can is niave

[gritty cove]

Disc actually had offline data. On the ps3. With emulators we could download this data and use it to play the original version. Ofc updates to a game are store on the console

[brisk sparrow]

mmhmm

[jolly sky]

Where you can buy MK1 where you can purchase it? Steam. You can't avoid not having a key because thats how digital distribution works.

[nova bough]

they're 10 and 11 months old? ish. still kittens

[outer gust]

This

[brazen drift]

Yes, if you found out. Im sure people make Alts.

[hoary crater]

yeah exactly

[brazen drift]

maybe its the pessimist in me

[thick ledge]

of course we cant stop the truly dedicated shitters

[red trench]

You cant just ignore everything and pretend it never happened when there clearly is at the very least nuance to the situation

[indigo wadi]

Still not controlling

[supple cedar]

Creators can set a tone and denounce bad behavior. that’s part of being responsible. But expecting them to proactively “punish” everyone or somehow magically stop idiots from sending threats is just not possible.

[outer gust]

If anyone has been going to those communities and stirring the pot, create a #mod-ticket and we will deal with it

[thick ledge]

but the team has banned people in the past for doign that

[fleet osprey]

And that's fine I don't agree with everything Thor said, I'm just trying to find logic if blaming one guy for the fall when there definitely was resources surrounding it in order to make it successful

[thick ledge]

yes make a ticket with evidence and the team will annihilate them

[grand anvil]

I’m a raging optimist, so I’m probably annoying with my hope in people, and I understand that 😅

[fluid dome]

I'm listening to no sides bc everywhere I look, y'all talk bs and sling mud. If I wanted playground arguments I'd go back to school.

[frigid crown]

I don't think it's Ross community as a whole and I've mentioned it before that Thor for whatever reason has attracted the hate of the internet and despite that being really shit, it's real easy for people to coopt the movement as just another reason to spread more hate on Thor. Ross specifically asked people not to do this kind of shit very early in when it first started and then dropped it. I don't think Ross pays attention to drama outside of that

[remote maple]

https://tenor.com/view/tts-warhammer-corvus-the-box-judge-gif-26733990

[gritty cove]

So I don't need wifi to play mk1? Thay sounds good if only you do need steam to play mk1 and if you get banned, you lose the game you paid for. Interesting...

[flint raft]

I’m looking at all sides of this and honestly this just comes down to no one wanted to talk it out

[brisk sparrow]

the modern internet (and society in general) seems to have forgotten the paradox of tolerance. To be truly tolerant, we must be intolerant of intolerance

[tight bramble]

Bud...wise....ERRR....

[hoary crater]

I mean to be honest just saying "dont do this" isnt enough

[golden latch]

We do not condone brigading and being a jerkface for or against anyone i believe is the stance yeah

[shadow dawn]

They are precious babies and i love them, please give them pets from me (if they like pets)

[flint raft]

I’m not talking bs about anyone, I’m keeping an open mind

[haughty pelican]

@gritty cove do you want cheaters to be banned?

[brazen drift]

But even so, you CAN actively tell your community to not be jerks like Thor does on a regular basis, and even if you cant control them entirely is still a marketed improvement over a lot of content creators. (though they are getting better about it slowly)

[red trench]

Which is exactly the reason this has become so much of a bigger deal than it should be

[proud coral]

it’s so Minover

[frigid crown]

Anyone blaming Thor as the sole reason is definitely doing it in bad faith or just doesn't think things through clearly.

[gritty cove]

I prefer owning my product. I couldn't care about cheaters.

[gloomy forge]

Unfortunatly, discs are worse than what we have now because DVDs only have a finite lifespan and you have to bring recieps in order to have a legally obtained digital copy of your game again.

I feel digital distribution is fine, but the onus in providing a product that technically earns you lasting lifetime ownership rights is for the publishers to solve in accordance to the (new) laws, and that is what people must support primarily.

[jolly sky]

You can play single player games offline on Steam yes. As long as that game doesn't have a separate Authorisation sign in. That I agree is something that SKG could have focused on, but actually refused to.

And you would have to really mess up for Steam to ban your entire account.

[frigid crown]

I'm not aware of how much of a team Ross has to even handle stuff like this tbh, I don't think it's much of one with his finances being drained just trying to support the movement.

[jovial sandal]

The problem is, when you look at initiatives that have succeeded, they include specific actions to be taken and a vision of the end goal. SKG does not

[charred wolf]

Gotta say, that is a level-headed opinion to me.

I'm not certain myself, though.

[fleet osprey]

Agreed, was he a factor, yeah, probably. But if Charlie and co actually care as much as they say they do, why not make their own movement?

[proud coral]

moist man either makes or breaks the internet career of whoever he talks about

[earnest spire]

there is also the fact that asmond react to thor's killing games problem so that might also be a contributing factor of why they hate thor

[charred wolf]

Can't be on things I do not grasp.

[hoary pawn]

Chat I think we should all go for a walk outside and breath in the outside air deeply 😮‍💨🫁

[flint raft]

Dark souls games have an online side but you can play them offline

[brisk sparrow]

the only thing i can really see steam banning an entire account for is for a chargeback, which is also just kinda normal practice for chargebacks

[jolly sky]

And yet, SKG does not want developers involved (a very crucial group of people you would want involved) in the discussion of SKG

[haughty pelican]

So the answer is no, because if a company can’t revoke access by law you can’t ban cheaters

[brisk sparrow]

outside some stupid egregious stuff that i cant say here

[gritty cove]

I don't want to entertain this only because if I go on KH3 offline it won't let me.

[gloomy forge]

Is it weird that nobody in this talks about GOG? they've been doing what SKG wants for a long time. With lifetime ownership support.

[flint raft]

If you don’t wanna hear about the drama don’t seek it out?

[hoary crater]

licenses have their place in game development, we need regulation not just outright banning
SKG takes way too much of a hardlined approach against licensing

[gritty cove]

I just want my ownership of product and I wanna be able to play it for my lifetime

[hoary crater]

even if I was a EU citizen i wouldnt sign

[fluid dome]

I don't have a viable solution to any of this, so I refuse to engage in the discussion where I'm required to choose a side. Not my problem tbh. If this is only affecting online only, I as a single player gamer, see this as low priority.

[supple cedar]

Games have gotten around this before by just simply putting cheaters in cheater only lobbies.

[gloomy forge]

you buy the game and you get it forever, even after the servers close you're able to still attain said copy of the game (including all the digitial things like instruction manuals and stuff).

#ad

[supple cedar]

If you want to cheat in a game you paid for, fair enough. You play with other cheaters

[elder scaffold]

Buy your games on GOG then

[flint raft]

You aren’t required to take a side, you can be in genchat

[red trench]

Why not? it doesnt cost you anything, it also has 0 negative effects and at least sets brings the topic in front of eu court if passed

[frigid crown]

I can try to find anything but iirc Ross did state he was talking with developers at some point. I will try to find any proof I can on that though

[jovial sandal]

People have spoken about GOG, and praised it for that position. But there's a difference between one publishing body choosing to do something, and enforcing that behavior by law

[jolly sky]

That is because of Epic requiring an always online connection, which is also agree is a dumb thing for a single player game

[haughty pelican]

If they detect them

[brisk sparrow]

so steam libraries will only work for a month if the world ends

good to know

[gritty cove]

Or we could make laws to prevent this scum practice

[elder scaffold]

Then do so in non vague ways

[exotic locust]

Running with scissors, the developers of Postal and Postal 2 have openly supported skg and ross

[gloomy forge]

@jovial sandal I feel a lot of troubles in lawmaking would be solved if they just worded it like "just turn steam into GOG"

[golden latch]

They can revoke certain aspects like online modes tbf but not remove a local games availability. But i getcha

[indigo wadi]

Or we can accept that games die and not have more government reach

[fleet osprey]

Yup, but since its a legal matter, it needs to be written as precise as possible, which was what Thor had an issue with originally, not the preservation of video games in general

[hoary crater]

because frankly it would cause more harm than good, we dont know how the lawmakers will change the initiative into a law and right now the spirit of the initiative is too hardlined against a useful tool for me to agree with it

[frigid crown]

Please don't start the shit flinging it's unhelpful

[jolly sky]

Pardon? Do you want to rephrase that in a grown up way?

[summer marsh]

I think multiplayer games should have their right to revoke access for hackers, cheaters, toxicity etc.

[flint raft]

Dan

[fluid dome]

Devs should be working less not more

[elder scaffold]

Agreed

[regal lily]

@minor nymph penguinz0 made a vid about you 1hr ago had to thumbs that down real quick

[golden latch]

For the multiplayer aspects of the game?

[thick ledge]

He knows defocus

[brisk sparrow]

we know

[supple cedar]

I'm once again bringing up cheater only lobbies

[indigo wadi]

Then leave

[frigid crown]

Bro you should honestly just leave, not helping discussion at all

[fleet osprey]

Agreed but that's more of a breach of tos than a EOL situation

[fluid dome]

Imagine being a rockstar dev for gta online and having to maintain the server by law.

[grand anvil]

https://tenor.com/view/bro-is-finished-cooked-finished-dog-closing-eyes-dog-with-eyes-closed-gif-8933440936102921947

[remote maple]

https://tenor.com/view/tts-kitten-foit-gif-27566467

[flint raft]

…wow

[haughty pelican]

We could easily push for licensing game to no longer be aloud to say buy but instead say Rent on purchase, that’s a policy that could be pushed

[jolly sky]

Except nothing I have said has been anything close to a child. Nice to see you can just choose to ignore everything by calling someone a child.

[flint raft]

Want a cookie?

[compact orchid]

Personally agreed with Thor on most of his points, but I didn't see his opinion shared by the space at all. I struggle to see how Thor had any effect. Feels to me like Ross focused on the sporadic negative feedback rather than the overwhelming tide of support.

A million signatures is a lot, what he accomplished regardless is pretty huge, I dunno why all this was necessary. "Gamers" just aren't that big of a population already, and slice it up even more to those who had to see and understand this initiative makes it even smaller.

[thick ledge]

We should stop talking about this drama and start talking about The Liver king threatening to murder Joe Rogan and getting arrested for it

[brisk sparrow]

that was wild to see

[flint raft]

I’m screwing around here btw

[grand anvil]

HUH?

[hoary crater]

I agree with your point but this is a bad argument, rockstar isnt run like valve you dont get to choose what you work on anyways

[jovial sandal]

Because the thing that allows them the ability to do so is the fact that you have a license to a game, not ownership of the game

[red trench]

In some ways Thor is right the movement is far too vague to do anything in court and no law will get passed, however by your logic no law ever should be brought in front of a court due to the uncertainty of how the law implements it? and putting it in front of lawmakers at least shows what can and cannot be done

[thick ledge]

It happened

[elder scaffold]

The who king?

[thick ledge]

The liver king

[brittle jacinth]

what??? why would he do that and he still exist?

[grand anvil]

That just metaphorically stun locked me, ngl

[elder scaffold]

Who tf is that

[thick ledge]

He's like a super buff 70 year old that eats raw meat

[faint rapids]

Amen brother people care way too hard

[fleet osprey]

Wym? Valve wont work with rockstar to keep the servers going? And someone would have to do it

[indigo wadi]

He's been arrested

[jovial sandal]

the revocable license is the thing that enables people being banned from online games

[flint raft]

Liver king, hold on I got a vid of Danny Gonzales talking about him

[thick ledge]

The liver king is going to liver prison

[grand anvil]

PFFFFT

[red trench]

But there is literally no reason to be actively against the movement, thinking the movement has no chance? sure, thinking its too vague? sure, but actively being against it is crazy

[hoary crater]

im referring to valve as a game developer, not steam

[thick ledge]

For "terroristic threats"

[charred wolf]

Has anybody seen my liver?

[elder scaffold]

Guess he gotta stop his raw meat doet

[wary drift]

Good thing he isn't

[grand anvil]

You could say he…. Had too much guts.

[flint raft]

https://youtu.be/5zZk0NPxiGM?

[indigo wadi]

Thor isn't against it. He doesn't agree with the wording

[thick ledge]

Thor and everyone else agrees with the spirit of skg

Just not the specifics

We are arguing specifics

[red trench]

he also literally said he is actively against the movement

[waxen comet]

ive been read and taught on a bit of law and laws are almost always vague enough to be applied differently but specific enough that it does not overextend it

[brisk sparrow]

cant wait to see what happens to his body when he looses everything that allows him to look like he does

[jovial sandal]

a poorly framed argument does more harm to a cause than any opposition. SKG is a poorly framed argument

[fluid dome]

Being against it, and not agreeing with the wording are two very different things

[brazen drift]

I dont even think its too vague for the law; you can have actual legaleese written somewhere the general population doesnt see it. But if you're going to put an initative out there it should be readable for everyone and Clear in what you want to do and to me the SKG didn't have that on its main page. its all in the Faq, and gamers hate reading.

[haughty pelican]

You start with being as clear as possible

[indigo wadi]

No he didn't.

[faint rapids]

Can we stop clarifying the same answers over and over at any point and just hang out

[golden latch]

I mean a petition to bring up an issue to local representatives is fine regardless

[thick ledge]

Yeah we should just vibe

[fleet osprey]

Oh...Kay? Sorry I might be being dumb, it's late, what point were U trying to make saying valve doesn't work like rockstar etc?

[thick ledge]

I think we can all be friends

[grand anvil]

https://tenor.com/view/i-carly-watcha-got-there-smoothie-gif-11706255

[thick ledge]

We all got pets

[fluid dome]

Checkmate

Get owned nerd

[hoary crater]

you're confusing my argument with thors argument
im not saying its too vague im saying its putting too much focus on banning licensing and less focus on actually regulating licensing so its used for good and not for bad

[flint raft]

Best character in the show

[grand anvil]

Spencer is me fr

[thick ledge]

aaaaaAAAA

Some of yall have proven to be chill and I hope you stick around and vibe

[ocean agate]

Hitler was after world peace, the spirit of things doesnt mean shit when the implementation costs are unknown, risky, or destructive

[faint rapids]

The Easter version is hilarious

[red trench]

(which i think is fair and actually agree with you) but i still dont see how anyone can be actively against the movement

[grand anvil]

And EVERY NOW AND THEN… so is crazy Steve

[jovial sandal]

So, in other words, your license to access their servers to play online was revoked?

[flint raft]

Gotta say I’m doing good for running on 3 hours of sleep

[fluid dome]

I like bullying zaf (affectationate)

[wary drift]

The Sun going supernova would end world hunger real quick

[grand anvil]

https://tenor.com/view/drake-and-josh-drake-bell-drake-parker-josh-peck-josh-nichols-gif-5173409

[thick ledge]

NIOO

[untold seal]

It is true Hitler was a space lizard with a tiny wieners. All lizards have tiny wieners. Dinosaur wieners

[brisk sparrow]

it would end a lot of things TBF

[teal zodiac]

good ending 🙂 woosh

[thick ledge]

How did you find out the popular pass time so quickly

[frigid crown]

Is the only way to modify the petition itself to retract it and regather all the signatures? I don't know if the movement would have the same traction or if it would get more but that just seems like a way to kill it early.

[flint raft]

https://tenor.com/view/sup-fortnite-victory-royale-gif-12432127

[fluid dome]

My glasses give me a +15 bonus to insight

[gloomy forge]

@wooden fable Quake World still exist, ID software did an awesome GIGACHAD move in OS their code. People still play doom because of it.

[formal kestrel]

But was it worth it

[thick ledge]

If you can't modify that sucks

[hoary crater]

my point is that rockstar devs dont just get to choose what they work on
the company will make them work on gta as long as the company wants to make them work on gta, so the argument of "oh poor developer having to work on gta forever" just doesnt make sense to me
the initiative gives the company an incentive other than money to keep hiring devs for the maintanence of the game, the devs will be forced into bad positions regardless and thats a cause for a completely different initiative

[grand anvil]

I play DBD. I’ve seen the angriest of gamers.

[fleet osprey]

Same as cheating in any regulated game, chess, sports, etc, if your found cheating you can be banned from playing in regulated games

I don't think it should stop you playing the game full stop, but definitely the multiplayer aspect is ruined

[shadow dawn]

My condolences

[fluid dome]

I wanna turn my fursona into a dnd character but idk how to convert her for a fantasy setting

[flint raft]

League: “Childs play”

[minor nymph]

I love when someone knows just enough jargon to enflame the masses but not enough to make any sense.
https://x.com/PirateSoftware/status/1938048257328091602

Pirate Software (@PirateSoftware)

@jackvaniadev It seems like you might be talking about running a distributed architecture which doesn't work for all game services. You cannot do this when you need the source of truth to be kept from players to ensure a level playing ground.

Outside of that an API is just a communication

X · Jun 26, 2025, 1:34 AM

[hoary crater]

anyway the easy solution is to just provide a LAN experience for online games post sunset

[grand anvil]

I’m too far in to quit, so this is my curse now LOL

[haughty pelican]

You know what else you don’t own but license, photoshop

[gloomy forge]

welcome back, how was the food?

[hoary crater]

excluding MMOs at least, I dont know how that would work

[frigid crown]

That's at least what I gathered online but I'm not as versed in how EU does things.

[grand anvil]

I take your racism, and raise you ableism

[minor nymph]

Hammy.

[jovial sandal]

Ok. Now let's extend that to other games, like an MMO. A license being revoked there means you get to access... what? The main menu? Does this meet the functional playable state standard?

[thick ledge]

it all comes back to CLIENT SIDE AUTHORATITIVE, THE SERVER SIMULATES THE AXE SWINGS THOR

[golden latch]

You assumption would be wrong

[remote maple]

his entire twitter is just "ackshully im much smarter than you peseant" its rage bait surely

[indigo wadi]

Bye then

[wary drift]

DBD is a special kind of game. I haven't even played it and it makes me angry.
What do you mean you got Nicolas Cage to voice act for your game, and made him a voice actor for one of the survivors instead of creating a deranged Nicolas Cage killer Rob Cantor's Shia LaBeouf style?

[fluid dome]

I am... new to DnD. Never played. Group I was due to play with fell apart

[remote maple]

why are you in here crying?

[supple cedar]

A private server 😃
Oh wait

[charred wolf]

Dbd fans when it turns day

[grand anvil]

Bro, JUST TODAY, I had survivors mad at me… FOR THEM WINNING! It was lowkey hilarious

[waxen comet]

ad hominems and all that

[median hornet]

Pot, meet kettle

[jovial sandal]

I promise someone has already created a stat block for whatever you wanna make

[haughty pelican]

Dragon ball D?

[fleet osprey]

I see your point, but AAA will cut corners at every section they can, there is no way. I don't see how this incentivises companise to hire more staff than to stretch their current staff more thin

Could be a lack of understanding of the movement tho on my part, not an expert

[formal kestrel]

I like the idea of a meat kettle, would be an interesting tea flavour

[charred wolf]

https://tenor.com/view/dead-by-daylight-fans-dbd-mrturtleseven-gif-20801653

[median hornet]

I agree with this

[hoary crater]

im not part of the movement I just dont agree with your logic there, if that makes sense

[grand anvil]

As an often player, can confirm

[gloomy forge]

Happened to me in dota a few times. I was the support but got pushed into the carry role, 2 of our carrys went crazy public matches are fun.

[hoary crater]

generally speaking I disagree with SKG

[wary drift]

I can't help but think of the Dominatrix side mission from Yakuza 0 when I read this.
"You need to hurt us more!"

[thick ledge]

Nom

[teal zodiac]

i mean, its 3:30, im on sick leave, waiting for the painkillers to work, and ive been playing this game for like 1y and i can barely reach Diamond
I mainly play Teemo and Lilia so...its all worth it anyway, always fun

[hoary crater]

even if the general idea is good

[thick ledge]

Sausage with siracha

[grand anvil]

I’m just like “YOU WON, WHY ARE YOU MAD!” 😂

[fluid dome]

[indigo wadi]

I found non-spicy takis

[formal kestrel]

Fair enough

[golden latch]

Why is siracha poo colored

[ocean agate]

spicy wieners

[fleet osprey]

So you think AAA companies will hire more staff/ have an insensitive to look after legacy games? Vs just stretching developers further?

Or is there proof of this?

[grand anvil]

“You know what?! I’ll kill you HARDER NEXT TIME!”

[hoary crater]

im saying that the devs will get mistreated regardless

[thick ledge]

If that's the color of ur poo please see a dr

[hoary crater]

and that a completely different initiative should be made for protecting dev's workers rights

[golden latch]

No i like eating my red40

[fleet osprey]

Correct, but that's like saying someone's already in pain, let's just cut of a toe or 2, they are already in pain

[faint rapids]

"I put that on everythaaaang!"🎶

[ocean agate]

i read that in that old womens voice from the cmmercial

[charred wolf]

Most I got to show is this

[thick ledge]

It's wild to me there are people who play games but openly say they don't care about devs at all

[faint rapids]

I only know the tech n9ne song lol

[hoary crater]

no I really dont think that the level of mistreatment will be that different honestly
it takes significantly less effort to maintain a sunsetted game, you fix bugs and take community contributions

[waxen comet]

the way i see it, rather than hire more people they would rather just not create a product that has to have post EoS work bec having to work around the law is most preferrable by these companies rather than tackling it head on

[thick ledge]

Like where do you think ur game comes from

[fleet osprey]

Agreed but I think they would need to be desperate movements, but I definitely agree that Devs need better rights in AAA

[golden latch]

The internet

[indigo wadi]

CONSUUM

[grand anvil]

Obviously the Magic game fairies, duh

[frigid crown]

Dev hate I don't understand, most times I've been upset with some kind of decision it was not the devs choice in the matter

[jovial sandal]

Sprung fully formed out of Hideo Kojima's head, obvs

[fluid dome]

For the record, this is my fursona. She's an Umbramancer

[ocean agate]

is that plain pasta......you need help? are ok? did someone kick over your sand castle again?

[thick ledge]

Honestly I think the AAA industry is about ready to explode

[hoary crater]

again I think the best solution to SKG is just lan, maybe community servers for MMOs

[grand anvil]

Aye, nice!

[thick ledge]

Like on its own

[fleet osprey]

I disagree but if that's how U genuinely feel, fair enough

[indigo wadi]

More like implode

[near haven]

I have criticism for both sides of this, but omg the amount of people being intentionally obtuse to make Pirate seem like an evil man is insane. For anyone reading this. It does not matter if SKG is an initiative or not. If the purpose of the initiative is to do a thing, but it is worded in such a way in which it can either mislead the people that sign it or the law makers that read it, you may not get the outcome you want. When people are like "oh but pirate intentionally misunderstood the intent of SKG" they miss the whole point. If you're going to change law, be precise. Don't leave in any room for loop holes or whatever, cause that will give AAA companies an out.

[charred wolf]

It's more like soup

[teal zodiac]

i know some people who are so used to emulators that they take everything for granted, dev work doesnt even pass their minds

[faint rapids]

If any MMA fans like to use split screen, UFC is streaming live BJJ matches btw

[grand anvil]

There’s a wise quote I always remember at times like this

[indigo wadi]

Then go tell Ross

[grand anvil]

https://tenor.com/view/some-men-just-want-to-watch-the-world-burn-batman-alfred-quotes-gif-14054558

[thick ledge]

Mmm this good sausage

Mmmmmmmm

[grand anvil]

https://tenor.com/view/markiplier-angry-you-wanna-run-that-by-me-again-gif-13916684

[indigo wadi]

You enjoy meat in your mouth I see

[teal zodiac]

some man just want to watch the garlic bread burn

[thick ledge]

[ocean agate]

[thick ledge]

I heard garlic bread makes u fat

[fluid dome]

[waxen comet]

im not wholly with this idea. law does need to be specific enough, but law also has to be vague enough so that it can be established into law and offers a wider net to catch

[shadow dawn]

Not the garlic bread😭

[jovial sandal]

then let me be fat

[golden mirage]

Burn the bread, mods aren't allowed to have it.

[fleet osprey]

Yeah probably

[indigo wadi]

Why is this ferret lewd

[grand anvil]

https://tenor.com/view/scott-pilgrim-bread-fat-gif-20241493

[indigo wadi]

It is not good to be vague...

[jovial sandal]

And yet, the initiatives that pass, are specific

[grand anvil]

@thick ledge I PRAY that was what you were referencing, because if so…

[haughty pelican]

No, that’s how all the shit laws work

[ocean agate]

......i ask not what i dont wish to know, i just exist because i am so

[grand anvil]

https://tenor.com/view/captain-america-i-understood-that-reference-look-back-gif-14556485

[frigid crown]

Welp it's been fun hopping back in but I dunno if I want to go another lap. Hope everyone here has a great rest of their day gonna go eat and scape at this point.

[shadow dawn]

It really, really isn't

[thick ledge]

Oh absolutely

[grand anvil]

YEEEEEESSSSS idc ily now

[thick ledge]

@frigid crown are u farming runecrafting

[indigo wadi]

Laws don't get passed on being vague. Neither do initiatives

[fluid dome]

I should be vague in my next job interview and see how I get on, I might get a job this time.

[thick ledge]

I beard you can do that while learning to code

[waxen comet]

no, thats how many laws work, even good ones
this has been hammered down by my social issues class in my head that law has to be vague enough that it can afford SOME leeway but not too much leeway that its free passes left and right

[thick ledge]

At dev.boot

Or boot.dev one of those

[near haven]

I am incredibly small fry. I am a no body in this space. Even if my words are seen by Ross, I am likely to be ignored. Being a content creator in a space is very overwhelming, and going into this in depth with me in particular would be very time consuming.

[hoary crater]

i think im gonna go touch grass, this entire scenario/drama with SKG has really demotivated me from working on my game mods honestly, I wish it hadnt reignited
I wish yall luck for the rest of your day

[frigid crown]

Just finished WGS on my iron so I've got a torm demons task to finish up. Spent the earlier hours of the day studying for PenTest+

[thick ledge]

Gotta run abyssal runes

[indigo wadi]

Law works on specifics

[grand anvil]

I hope you can find the motivation to work on what you love! You got this! 💙🧡

[jovial sandal]

here's an example of an initiative that made it through the process

https://citizens-initiative.europa.eu/initiatives/details/2022/000002_en

[shadow dawn]

You also dont start the research phase with "uhhh so i have this thing"👍

[fluid dome]

Spent most of today working on Lies of P NG+, I'd call that a productive day

[frigid crown]

hah I hate RC, just been doing bwanas with my fish barrel when I want to afk

[indigo wadi]

I have read laws before. They tend to cover bases with specifics

[haughty pelican]

All the vague laws I know are to ether arrest political enemies or help rich dodge tax

[thick ledge]

Again I think everyone agrees something should be done but it's just an argument on approach

[jovial sandal]

You'll notice that it lays out a problem, why its a problem, and what remediation they specifically want to resolve the problem

[thick ledge]

Approach and language semantics

[jovial sandal]

SKG fails to do that third thing

[indigo wadi]

Lily arguing the same point for 2 days and getting nowhere

[thick ledge]

AAAAAA

[fluid dome]

https://tenor.com/view/déjàvu-drift-anime-initial-d-car-gif-17211916

[grand anvil]

Opinions in this economy?

[thick ledge]

You did it you've killed me

I'm dead

Gamer slain

[shadow dawn]

Okay cool👍

[indigo wadi]

And yet successful initiatives are specific

[compact orchid]

But people can't get behind something if they don't know what it will ultimately mean. This isn't a personality or worthy cause issue, it's a marketing issue. Whether or not we agree with the approach is meaningless.

[waxen comet]

have you read your constitution? yea that one is basically what is vague enough but specific enough

[thick ledge]

A

[golden mirage]

If the initiative is vague then the lawmakers have a vague idea of what to talk about. Which means they're going to talk to industry lobby groups and the big names in the industry. In this case that's going to be companies like valve, Microsoft, Apple, ea, etc. It's not going to be all the small indie devs like Thor. This means any law will be written to their advantage and not to the spirit of the initiative. If you want laws that support an initiative then be specific and write the initiative as if you want that to be the law.

[fluid dome]

Tbh

[faint rapids]

Only once more UFC is live on yt with the BJJ world championship since yall love fighting lol

[indigo wadi]

Constitution is a finished product

[waxen comet]

lmao no

[fluid dome]

I'd rather hear the opinion of someone who does this for a living rather than the 20 or so people who are just circlejerking

[thick ledge]

Constitution is a living document

[jovial sandal]

technically its seen as a living document, but that's a side issue

[waxen comet]

constitutions can get revisions, amendments and etc

its by no means "finished"

[thick ledge]

Which is it's own thing

[waxen comet]

law evolves and changes over time so no law is "finished"

not even the constitution

[indigo wadi]

Okay so it's unfinished, so pointless to use it as an example

[thick ledge]

Laws need to be specific enough not to be abused, but also vague enough not to be dodged by technicality

[near haven]

I am not talking about what you mean. I am saying the intent of their ideas should be absolutely explicitly clear in their initiative. You are completely misunderstanding what I meant. A reasonable person reading the initial description of the initiative (or one who is sympathetic to cooperate interest) could've misunderstood what angle they were coming from. I am not American, and I am not coming at this from an American perspective. I am from the UK, I have seen our laws and most of them are rather explicit. If x is done then a list of y is the consequence. Interpretation comes in the from of determining things like intent, or what sentence fits the crime. In the terms of SKG, if a law maker would read the initiative description and come away with a slight misunderstanding of what is being proposed, how does that help anyone?

[gloomy forge]

Longer post, sorry not sorry . Come to read discussions on all that SKG stuff I also feel that some of it lacks nuance. Questions like "should art be eternal" and things amongst those lines. I think it should be but its everyones responsibility so it keeps that way that art is in fact eternal. But its also subjective. For some, change is good too. The more I think about it the more I think non-profits are the way to go in order to fight for gamer consumer rights and better legislature. Works quite well.

I honestly feel that theres should be checks and balances in place during lawmaking. EU lobbyism is also massive but its usually the resource industry. All of this is fairly small-fry stuff. Considering its EU it will still take between 2-6 years unless someone with a deep pocket p2w the legislature again .

Also those that are confused, while the law has to be really specific proposals for law do not. Before the "R&D" happens, the proposal needs to be phrased in a way so people with the expertise and politicans discuss and fix all the underlining issues. Problem is, it can also involve people with different interests and powers. Happens regularly. R&D on the subject matter begins once there is a consensus. All the things that SKG is based on need to be established through already existing European laws, federal or otherwise. If it doesn't happen then the whole thing simply gets ditched and forgotten. People affiliated with that SKG entails have to be bought into the discussion as well. Experts in all things copyright as well since there are many loopholes.

[thick ledge]

It's a needle to thread

[haughty pelican]

My constitution is a series of old laws on what the king can and cannot do

[thick ledge]

But can the king start an onlyfans

Is that in there

[remote maple]

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer-monster-rotfl-gif-14520250

[faint rapids]

No but he can helldive

[indigo wadi]

King can so anything

[jovial sandal]

if its not, you should consider adding it

maybe we can make a petition for that?

[haughty pelican]

[indigo wadi]

King Charles Onlyfans

[thick ledge]

We need a king Charles only fans ammendment

[earnest mirage]

and surprise surprise, this is good phrased, addressed the issues in a reasonable manner and included additional (extended) information in form of a pdf as attachment

[fluid dome]

Me when beyond a reasonable doubt

[indigo wadi]

Don't think Canada has an ADA

[warm trench]

CDA?

[gloomy forge]

Nah dude f all video games

[thick ledge]

Cdc

[indigo wadi]

Bbc

[thick ledge]

I think most of us are exhausted for real debate so we are just shitposting now

[indigo wadi]

No you are

[thick ledge]

No you

[indigo wadi]

Nou

[golden latch]

Reasonable in legalese is very specific tbf

[thick ledge]

Nou

[fluid dome]

Bullying Zaf to recharge the batteries time

[earnest spire]

I feel like this is all a misunderstanding

[indigo wadi]

Go drink more redbull

[remote maple]

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer-40k-rogaldorn-gif-10829755

[thick ledge]

Pretty much yeah

We all agree, just not on approach

[jovial sandal]

Oh look, they define it in the text

(9) Reasonable accommodation

The term “reasonable accommodation” may include

(A) making existing facilities used by employees readily accessible to and usable by individuals with disabilities; and

(B) job restructuring, part-time or modified work schedules, reassignment to a vacant position, acquisition or modification of equipment or devices, appropriate adjustment or modifications of examinations, training materials or policies, the provision of qualified readers or interpreters, and other similar accommodations for individuals with disabilities.

[indigo wadi]

Nah too deep for that now and I'm on mobile lol

[fluid dome]

https://tenor.com/view/sosoro-sploonbab-sb-spuncbo-spongebob-gif-2167315199073168596

[acoustic vale]

https://criminalnotebook.ca/index.php/Reasonable_and_Probable_Grounds

[thick ledge]

Everyone wants to keep thier stuff

[haughty pelican]

You know if the king did helldive , I think the game would be allowed to have a seal of royal approval

[gloomy forge]

I feel we're just hanging out discussing random things and having fun

[thick ledge]

I hate videogames

[warm trench]

Wouldn't a Circus Clown Cannon fall under the ADA?

[indigo wadi]

Cool ty

[gloomy forge]

Make it law to play video games.

[fluid dome]

You hate them because you suck at Shrek Racing

[indigo wadi]

Stop Killing Gamers

[jovial sandal]

Maybe read section B where they specifically list examples of what accomodations look like?

[indigo wadi]

Gamers lives matter

[thick ledge]

Lily no need to get aggro, instead let's get everyone a copy of shrek: swamp kart racing for the gba

[indigo wadi]

I approve. Now buy me a gba

[teal zodiac]

videobames should be illegal and all devs arrested, just a little bit

[fluid dome]

It's morally correct to engage in this practice

[golden latch]

All law is

[near haven]

I agree. But I think it should be done properly or not at all.

[thick ledge]

No, only the cart

[warm trench]

National sales tax of 0.25% that goes into a fund that incentivizes game developers to make the games last forever/sunset.

[gloomy forge]

it should be law if when someone says bad things about a game they should be forced to play it and stream it online now thats content.

[indigo wadi]

Good thing concord 2 is in the works

[golden latch]

Its just verdicts and calling upon those old verdicts to backup claims

[sand vector]

Maybe I've missed this part of the conversation but something that puzzles me since I heard and thought about this...where is definition of functionality stored?

[earnest spire]

i think thor had problems with the wording and ross change the wording but thor doesn't know what change in 10 months and they assume he misinterpret when he react to old info that was change

[fluid dome]

I like Lily, she fun :)

[indigo wadi]

Like a leaf on a pond

[thick ledge]

This is actually a huge problem with recovering ancient documents, they assume you know things no modern person does. Like, a recipe calls for an egg. If a future culture doesn't keep poultry, they'll be like "what egg, ostrich??"

[fluid dome]

Leaves make the ponds pretttier

[indigo wadi]

He didnt

[gloomy forge]

hes just joking you guys

[indigo wadi]

And supports frogs

Therefore

[thick ledge]

He did, he said he was mad at the time and didn't pursue it

[indigo wadi]

Lily supports the french

[thick ledge]

But he definitely said that in the moment

He didn't actually do it though